| 00:48.32 | *** join/#brlcad Mike111 (n=mike@cadil21.kaist.ac.kr) |
| 00:48.38 | Mike111 | hi all |
| 00:51.35 | Mike111 | I need to generate a NURBS solid (which I understand brlcad currently doesn't support) and export it in IGES format. Ayam can create does NURBS but exports only RIB, DXF, 3DM, 3DMF, OBJ, X3D. Any ideas how convert the Ayam solid into IGES?. |
| 00:59.24 | ``Erik | um, if I understand correctly, the SVN version of BRL-CAD does actaully support creation, loading and saving of nurbs... there are issues with raytracing at the moment |
| 00:59.53 | ``Erik | but this subject is more the turf of people who are online in the morning GMT-5 |
| 01:00.53 | Ralith | does the IGES exporter handle them? |
| 01:01.01 | ``Erik | I doubt it |
| 01:01.28 | ``Erik | mmmm molten boron |
| 01:01.32 | ``Erik | futurama++ |
| 01:22.01 | *** join/#brlcad LarsG (n=lars@spnp206076.spnp.nus.edu.sg) |
| 01:22.07 | *** part/#brlcad LarsG (n=lars@spnp206076.spnp.nus.edu.sg) |
| 01:28.26 | Mike111 | hi Erik. |
| 01:28.48 | Mike111 | can I create a NURBS surface which smoothly blends between two 2D cross-sections? |
| 01:46.47 | *** join/#brlcad starseeker (n=starseek@bz.bzflag.bz) |
| 01:47.11 | starseeker | ~log |
| 01:47.11 | ibot | extra, extra, read all about it, log is http://ibot.rikers.org/%23wowhead/ |
| 01:49.28 | starseeker | uh, shouldn't that be http://ibot.rikers.org/%23brlcad/ ? |
| 01:52.09 | starseeker | brlcad: I'm wondering if we're going to have to set up a way to store the bounding box trees for nurbs surfaces once generated - it may be that creating them "on the fly" will be almost as bad as tesselating before raytracing |
| 01:54.00 | Mike111 | hi starseeker. |
| 01:54.23 | Mike111 | I think the feature I'm looking for is the Ayam Birail2 object: http://ayam.sourceforge.net/features.html |
| 02:00.16 | starseeker | Mike111: heh, brlcad was just mentioning birails for that application |
| 02:00.32 | starseeker | feel like implementing a birails primitive? |
| 02:00.54 | Mike111 | not sure I can ;) |
| 02:01.45 | starseeker | Well, the ayam source code license is compatible with BRL-CAD's iirc, so you could use some of the logic there |
| 02:02.07 | starseeker | src/librt/primitives/ holds our current primitives |
| 02:02.13 | ``Erik | I want a birail prim :( |
| 02:02.14 | starseeker | hyp and revolve are recent work |
| 02:05.33 | ``Erik | tell ya what, I can't afford the time to do it, but the birail is important enough to me that I'll totally mentor/help anyone who does that |
| 02:06.28 | ``Erik | want my damn car back. Want my house fixed. |
| 02:07.36 | ``Erik | dane cook... isn't actually funny... it's not good |
| 02:09.07 | Mike111 | I've noticed that configure installs a NURBS library. what is it used for then? |
| 02:12.01 | ``Erik | that's current development |
| 02:12.33 | ``Erik | we hope to have solid NURBS capabilties in the very near future, but we're ... still working on it :) |
| 02:13.23 | Mike111 | that will be good |
| 02:17.44 | Mike111 | in the meantime, can brlcad import nurbs from Ayam? |
| 02:17.58 | Mike111 | I understand the DXF format does not support nurbs |
| 02:18.33 | ``Erik | I think the only nurb import is STEP, and it's ... not 100% |
| 02:19.11 | ``Erik | like I said before, the people who know that aren't on right now, they'll probably be around in about 10 hours |
| 02:20.12 | starseeker | IGES is the only working nurbs import |
| 02:20.22 | starseeker | STEP is being worked currently |
| 02:20.44 | starseeker | Or there's the 3dm (Rhino) to g conversion if you happen to have Rhino |
| 02:21.01 | starseeker | IGES produces old (non openNURBS) nurbs right now |
| 02:21.21 | starseeker | the STEP conversion will create openNURBS nurbs, as does the 3dm-g convertor |
| 02:21.42 | Mike111 | is `3dm-g' the application name> |
| 02:21.45 | ``Erik | I thought the iges importer require the tesseleation phase |
| 02:21.48 | starseeker | yes |
| 02:21.56 | starseeker | ``Erik: I don't think so... |
| 02:22.25 | starseeker | If you have access to Rhino, you can model in that and then use 3dm-g to get a .g file |
| 02:22.36 | starseeker | Doubt that will help with Ayam though |
| 02:22.40 | Mike111 | is that an opensource? |
| 02:22.46 | starseeker | Rhino? nope |
| 02:23.02 | Mike111 | I prefer to rely on opensource only |
| 02:23.12 | ``Erik | rhino is only $200, not $20,000 though :) |
| 02:23.39 | starseeker | the Rhino guys are the ones who did openNURBS |
| 02:24.26 | starseeker | (so the 3dm-g "conversion" doesn't have to do any hard work on the NURBS data structures) ;-) |
| 02:27.31 | starseeker | has wondered if it might be possible to convince the Rhino/openNURBS guys to add their *->openNURBS conversion logic to the lib... |
| 02:27.44 | starseeker | probably not though |
| 02:28.30 | starseeker | Mike111: the basic truth is that there isn't a complete open source NURBS solution that I know of right now. |
| 02:28.47 | starseeker | One thing about Ayam - IIRC it uses Tk for its interface, just like MGED/Archer |
| 02:29.09 | starseeker | so you could take a look at their editing support and see how it maps to openNURBS |
| 02:29.35 | Mike111 | Ayam probably does all I need (plus supports scripting). The problem is getting the IGES file. |
| 02:36.02 | starseeker | Ayam says it supports 3dm export |
| 02:36.18 | starseeker | you MIGHT be able to try exporting to 3dm and see if 3dm-g works |
| 02:36.38 | Mike111 | 3dm-g is rhino? |
| 02:36.45 | starseeker | 3dm is rhino |
| 02:37.27 | starseeker | remember though, even if you get a .g file, we can't EXPORT openNURBS to IGES any more than we can import them |
| 02:38.13 | starseeker | so at the very least you'd have to update the IGES export routine to work with the openNURBS data structures |
| 02:39.15 | starseeker | makes a note to see what 3dm-g does with Ayam 3dm exports |
| 02:42.15 | Mike111 | what's the difference between standard nurbs and opennurbs? |
| 03:40.23 | yukonbob | hello cadheads |
| 03:40.28 | brlcad | starseeker: cross that bridge when we're actually stepping on it, but not unthinkable to store the bb's in some in-memory structure .. could even possibly persist them but even tessellation needs to be "interactive" |
| 03:41.24 | brlcad | Mike111: we can import nurbs through our iges importer, or through our 3dm importer, but you can't do much more than render them |
| 03:42.52 | brlcad | ``Erik: iges importer has 3 different import modes, one being nurbs, another being 2D nmg, and another for 3d nmg |
| 03:44.27 | brlcad | Mike111: the 3dm file format is from the same guys that develop rhino, but 3dm-g is *our* importer for the 3dm format (and doesn't require rhino) |
| 03:45.33 | Mike111 | can I use brlcad to convert 3dm to IGES? |
| 03:45.51 | brlcad | Mike111: openNURBS is just the name of the library |
| 03:45.59 | brlcad | no you cannot |
| 03:46.02 | brlcad | at least not yet |
| 03:46.21 | brlcad | because 3dm will import as 'new nurbs' objects, for which there is no iges export support yet |
| 03:47.15 | brlcad | it really wouldn't be too much work to get it working, but you'd have to work on that code |
| 03:47.28 | brlcad | or someone would have to, we're not hitting up the converters until a little later |
| 03:47.35 | Mike111 | but there is technically IGES supports NURBS, that is, it is just an issue of adding the nurbs capability? |
| 03:47.49 | Mike111 | but technically IGES supports NURBS, that is, it is just an issue of adding the nurbs capability? |
| 03:47.51 | brlcad | right |
| 03:47.58 | brlcad | nurbs support on export specifically |
| 03:48.23 | brlcad | would have to add that logic to our iges exporter to export our nurbs geometry as iges nurbs |
| 03:48.36 | brlcad | really probably *very* simple |
| 03:48.45 | brlcad | probably a 1-1 mapping |
| 03:48.50 | Mike111 | so at the moment there's Ayam which does nurbs but not IGES and brlcad does IGES but not nurbs |
| 03:48.56 | Mike111 | :( |
| 03:48.58 | brlcad | :) |
| 03:49.02 | Ralith | :| |
| 03:49.03 | brlcad | something like that |
| 03:49.23 | brlcad | we sort of do nurbs, just no export support :) |
| 03:50.27 | Mike111 | can I create a nurbs surface in brlcad? |
| 03:50.44 | Mike111 | I understand it is work in progress |
| 03:51.03 | brlcad | not interactively via the gui |
| 03:51.25 | brlcad | only via import (iges/3dm) or programmatically via code |
| 03:51.32 | Mike111 | I plan to do via a script |
| 03:52.43 | brlcad | someone would have to add scripting support to our existing new nurbs implementation (probably a days work) for that to work |
| 03:52.58 | brlcad | as the programmatic access is presently only via C |
| 03:53.32 | Mike111 | I don't code in C or C++ so I'm afraid I can't help you there |
| 03:54.01 | brlcad | nods |
| 03:54.21 | brlcad | it's really not much to add the support, just have to catch a dev with a few hours of free time |
| 03:54.25 | brlcad | <PROTECTED> |
| 03:55.16 | Mike111 | specifically, I want to create a surface which smoothly blends 2-D cross-sections. Is this viable in brlcad? |
| 03:55.24 | Mike111 | I understand from starseeker it is not |
| 03:55.39 | brlcad | you need a birail primitive for that, which is on our ideas page but not being worked on yet |
| 03:56.11 | brlcad | or at a minimum, you need sweep support, which is being worked on this summer |
| 03:56.29 | brlcad | though that will only do very specific/simple blends |
| 03:56.37 | Mike111 | so there are two features missing (for what I need): script support for nurbs and the birail |
| 03:56.46 | brlcad | another possibility for you is to use our waterline primitive |
| 03:56.56 | Mike111 | how flexible will the birail feature? |
| 03:56.58 | brlcad | you define spline contours |
| 03:57.02 | Mike111 | what's that waterline? |
| 03:57.03 | brlcad | those will export to iges too |
| 03:58.22 | brlcad | what we call an 'ars' primitive |
| 03:59.33 | Mike111 | will that blend 2D cross-sections? |
| 03:59.59 | brlcad | yes |
| 04:00.02 | brlcad | slices |
| 04:00.11 | brlcad | the blends will be polygonal though |
| 04:00.18 | brlcad | and depend on your number of slices |
| 04:00.37 | brlcad | i'll see if i can find some examples |
| 04:01.14 | brlcad | here's one, http://brlcad.org/gallery/s/screenshots/t62_mged.jpg.html |
| 04:01.18 | brlcad | that turret is an 'ars' |
| 04:01.42 | brlcad | see how it tessellates them together, you can see each "layer" |
| 04:02.41 | brlcad | and fortunately, there's a great page specifically on the ARS on the wiki |
| 04:02.45 | brlcad | thanks to Ges |
| 04:02.48 | brlcad | http://brlcad.org/wiki/BRL-CAD_Primitives |
| 04:03.00 | Mike111 | can you make it smoother, that is, use smaller polygons? |
| 04:03.26 | brlcad | sure |
| 04:03.35 | brlcad | read the wiki page, it explains |
| 04:03.46 | brlcad | number of points per polyline will make it smoother |
| 04:04.13 | Mike111 | I'm trying to model a wing, so having these polygons isn't practical |
| 04:04.25 | Mike111 | I need a smooth surface |
| 04:04.44 | brlcad | it will converge to smooth |
| 04:04.48 | brlcad | but I understand |
| 04:04.55 | brlcad | just saying what we have ;) |
| 04:06.20 | Mike111 | the 2D sections (airfoils) are generated by another application and available as coordinates |
| 04:06.26 | Mike111 | how can I import them into brlcad? |
| 04:09.12 | brlcad | you mean as an ars? |
| 04:11.00 | brlcad | if so, read the wiki page -- it explains all and gives an example (and mged is fully scriptable) |
| 04:11.12 | Mike111 | I have several 2D cross-sections, defined by plain ascii files (coordinates). how do I create in brlcad a smooth surface connecting them? |
| 04:13.20 | brlcad | have you been missing everything I've been saying? :) |
| 04:14.15 | Mike111 | the ars webpage mentions I need to provide the coordinates of all points of the interior polygons. |
| 04:15.36 | brlcad | you're either using our ars (i.e. faceted and non-smooth), or our dsp (quantized, but smoothable), or manually via polygons (also smoothable), or via an extruded 2D sketch (smooth surface but only linear uniform extrusions), or via nurbs (incomplete), or via birail (non-existent) ;) |
| 04:16.05 | Mike111 | I'm referring to the ars |
| 04:16.15 | brlcad | yes, the "interior points" are basically the 2d coordinates |
| 04:16.38 | Mike111 | that's ok for something like that twisted cube but seems impractical for something like a wing |
| 04:16.40 | brlcad | "The parameters to the above ars command can be dissected as" ... |
| 04:17.16 | brlcad | that's only because it's using 4 points per waterline, the first parameter |
| 04:17.37 | brlcad | you'd want dozens or hundreds of points to smooth it out |
| 04:17.54 | brlcad | the tank turret is around dozens |
| 04:18.06 | Mike111 | and I'll need to provide the coordinates for each of these, right? |
| 04:18.24 | brlcad | I believe so |
| 04:19.32 | Mike111 | I need to check if that is practical with my application |
| 04:19.37 | brlcad | nods |
| 04:21.31 | brlcad | ttyl! |
| 04:23.14 | Mike111 | thanks for your help brlcad, I'll look into ars later. need to go now |
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| 05:56.52 | starseeker | winces at the memory of his own run-in with ars |
| 05:58.18 | starseeker | Ayam seems to export something 3dm-g recognizes as a 3dm file, but my initial stab didn't get anything it felt like importing to the .g |
| 05:58.22 | starseeker | probably did it in Ayam wrong |
| 06:01.17 | starseeker | hadn't considered using dsp - boy would that be a strange use of it |
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| 06:56.08 | Mike111 | is there help available on dsp? it's not in volume II (added lately?) |
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| 07:28.01 | CIA-28 | BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * r34523 10/rt^3/trunk/src/coreInterface/ConstDatabase.cpp: |
| 07:28.01 | CIA-28 | BRL-CAD: revert changes from revision 34511 |
| 07:28.01 | CIA-28 | BRL-CAD: Sean changed the code in librt so the miss-function hook may now be null as well |
| 07:48.43 | CIA-28 | BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * r34524 10/rt^3/trunk/ (4 files in 2 dirs): added the cone (ID_TGC) primitive |
| 07:51.52 | CIA-28 | BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * r34525 10/brlcad/trunk/misc/win32-msvc/Dll/CMakeLists.txt: included the Cone from the core interface in the brlcad.dll |
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| 10:49.14 | d-lo | mernin all! |
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| 11:13.19 | CIA-28 | BRL-CAD: 03Rossberg 07http://brlcad.org * r1442 10/wiki/CoreInterface_PrintTitle_Example: BRLCAD::bad_alloc |
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| 11:48.45 | ``Erik | shush, you |
| 11:52.05 | ``Erik | heh, it's been so long since I've updated the fbsd port of BRL-CAD that pedro is lookin gto roll a copy |
| 11:52.28 | brlcad | so let 'em, nice to share the workload ;) |
| 11:52.46 | ``Erik | well, |
| 11:52.58 | ``Erik | the tkhtml issue really screws things over in a big way for that |
| 11:53.28 | ``Erik | and he wasn't in the loop, so this latest release is going to surprise him |
| 11:54.09 | ``Erik | will do it today |
| 11:54.14 | ``Erik | oh, are you in the office right now? |
| 11:54.30 | ``Erik | brlcad? |
| 11:54.36 | brlcad | not yet |
| 11:54.43 | brlcad | eta hour |
| 11:55.01 | ``Erik | ok, then I'll call. the work is continuing on my front door area, some paint has been laid down, but it's not done yet :/ |
| 11:55.12 | ``Erik | I need to find my usb/miniusb cable to get some pics off my camera :/ |
| 11:55.45 | ``Erik | heh, gonna be out today for house work, and if mondays predictions are right, out tomorrow to return the rental and get my car back... |
| 11:56.15 | ``Erik | <-- wonders how much he's pissing off the bc with this 'other crap' |
| 11:59.56 | ``Erik | neat, my phone locked up |
| 12:03.15 | d-lo | ``Erik: I asked her and she said "Who's Eric?" ;) |
| 12:03.31 | d-lo | and then I said "Erik, not Eric" |
| 12:03.47 | d-lo | and she said "oh him. Yeah, its cool." |
| 12:03.53 | d-lo | so no worries. |
| 12:04.04 | ``Erik | hah |
| 12:04.24 | ``Erik | she doesn't get in until 8:30, though? I just got off the phone with admin assist |
| 12:05.26 | d-lo | TBH, if you are using time you have earned... then don't think twice about it. |
| 12:05.31 | ``Erik | tell ya what, though, this is pissing me off. it was supposed to be a one day job, this is day #3 without completion and he's figuring on doing some today, then wrapping it up saturday... |
| 12:05.46 | d-lo | What's he charge an hour? |
| 12:05.54 | ``Erik | he's predicting time schedules as bad as... as... a software developer |
| 12:05.59 | *** join/#brlcad SWPadnos_ (n=Me@dsl107.esjtvtli.sover.net) |
| 12:06.03 | d-lo | HAH! |
| 12:06.05 | ``Erik | he's charging per project, not hour |
| 12:06.14 | ``Erik | so he's jacking himself more than anything |
| 12:06.14 | d-lo | well thats good at least. |
| 12:07.17 | ``Erik | I just need to make sure I still have enough leave saved up to take two weeks around early july O.o |
| 12:07.19 | d-lo | Lawn chair + a few stiff drinks + wow on laptop + watching him work = Fun, if nothing else. ;) |
| 12:08.09 | ``Erik | heh, 'cept I've been inside, trying to clean things up ... or outside giving him an extra pair of hands :) no wow, no watching, ... but yeah, a few stiff drinks ;> |
| 12:09.28 | *** join/#brlcad SWPadnos_ (n=Me@dsl107.esjtvtli.sover.net) |
| 12:09.48 | ``Erik | that and learning new songs on my guitar O.o BOC - the reaper and buddy holly - everyday |
| 12:10.37 | d-lo | LOL, every time I hear the BOC - Reaper, I can't help but start thinking of Cowbell. |
| 12:10.54 | ``Erik | ayup :D |
| 12:11.13 | *** join/#brlcad MinuteEl1ctron (n=MinuteEl@bz.bzflag.bz) |
| 12:11.20 | ``Erik | that's actually the reason I decided to pick it up |
| 12:12.02 | d-lo | hahahaha. |
| 12:12.16 | d-lo | I am reduced to tears every time I watch that video. |
| 12:12.51 | d-lo | There is just something about Walken.... "Let me tell you something. I gotta feva, and the only cure is more Cowbell." |
| 12:13.04 | ``Erik | indeed |
| 12:13.28 | ``Erik | if I scrap together another band and do a gig, I so want to say "I got a feva!" right before playing that song :D |
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| 15:18.48 | brlcad | howdy roberthl |
| 16:01.14 | roberthl | hi |
| 16:01.26 | roberthl | I am MinuteElectron, btw. |
| 16:01.35 | d-lo | I am Iron Man |
| 16:04.26 | d-lo | Heh, outstanding tutorial: http://www.wikihow.com/Escape-a-Minefield |
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| 20:27.00 | brlcad | roberthl: I figured :) |
| 20:27.11 | brlcad | hence the howdy ;) |
| 20:28.51 | roberthl | ah ;) |
| 20:29.05 | roberthl | how are things? |
| 20:29.13 | brlcad | going well |
| 20:29.15 | roberthl | good |
| 20:29.29 | brlcad | what are you up to? |
| 20:30.09 | roberthl | exams for the next couple of months |
| 20:35.35 | brlcad | fun! |
| 20:35.37 | brlcad | (not) :) |
| 20:35.51 | roberthl | hehe |
| 20:51.53 | Ralith | couple of months? |
| 20:51.54 | Ralith | wow. |
| 20:52.03 | Ralith | just got done with the majority of his |
| 21:21.00 | roberthl | I'm in the UK. |
| 22:31.29 | brlcad | feel free to nominate us for best project, https://sourceforge.net/community/cca09/nominate/?hash=fec98ebc83402b5dd32313ebe5b215d2 ;) |
| 22:39.53 | Ralith | wow, sf's been modernizing |
| 22:47.27 | brlcad | yeah, the design and layout is vast improvement |
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