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| 01:45.33 | starseeker | brlcad: I agree, real world geometry is the way to go |
| 01:53.28 | starseeker | wonders if we can get the ProE files for this sucker: http://www.longnow.org/projects/clock/prototype1/ |
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| 04:21.58 | yukonbob | happy friday, cadheads |
| 04:25.19 | pacman87 | good evening |
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| 14:11.06 | ``Erik | blinks and looks at the microsoft access database sitting in rt^3 |
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| 14:46.38 | madant | searches for his mojo |
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| 16:10.19 | brlcad | ``Erik: eh? |
| 16:16.33 | ``Erik | rt^3/docs/BME.eap ? |
| 16:17.51 | ``Erik | hmmm, that uml thingy dave uses must use access as the backend |
| 16:27.21 | brlcad | ah |
| 17:07.34 | starseeker | ew |
| 17:09.08 | starseeker | maybe http://argouml.tigris.org/ could work? |
| 17:11.29 | *** join/#brlcad FAMULUS (n=mark@ool-ad028f27.dyn.optonline.net) |
| 17:12.05 | FAMULUS | what would cause an object which has been Blasted to the canvas to show in a raytrace, but not in wireframe? |
| 17:26.00 | ``Erik | you mean like an overlay vs underlay issue? |
| 17:26.21 | FAMULUS | ``Erik: I can't see the object in wireframe view |
| 17:26.27 | FAMULUS | but I can see it when I raytrace |
| 17:26.45 | FAMULUS | feature or bug? |
| 17:27.28 | ``Erik | um, I'm not quite sure what state your mged is in, if you raytrace and have it in overlay (I think?) mode, the wireframe will not show |
| 17:27.39 | brlcad | starseeker: give it a go? only way to know would be to try it out |
| 17:28.37 | brlcad | FAMULUS: Settings -> Framebuffer -> turn off "Framebuffer Active" |
| 17:28.52 | brlcad | it's also a checkbox on the raytrace control panel |
| 17:29.46 | starseeker | brlcad: I'll ask him on Monday |
| 17:30.14 | starseeker | doubt it can import the access database, but maybe he can export it somehow |
| 17:30.25 | brlcad | starseeker: er, ask him what? :) I know he tried out various tools, most that just crashed a lot on him |
| 17:30.35 | brlcad | the only one that was mildly stable was the commercial one he's using now |
| 17:30.48 | brlcad | there are renderings of those class diagrams |
| 17:30.51 | starseeker | ask him to export the data from his commercial tool into some non-access form |
| 17:30.59 | starseeker | nods |
| 17:31.13 | brlcad | http://brlcad.org/design/gs/ |
| 17:31.45 | starseeker | psd? |
| 17:32.00 | brlcad | photoshop |
| 17:32.06 | starseeker | ah |
| 17:32.16 | brlcad | gimp reads those iirc |
| 17:32.39 | starseeker | wonder why he stuck the access database into svn |
| 17:32.55 | brlcad | what erik said more than likely |
| 17:33.03 | brlcad | it just happens to be what the software uses on the backend |
| 17:33.21 | starseeker | nods |
| 17:33.36 | brlcad | it is otherwise "just a binary file" that the software stores its data into, whatever the name of that software is |
| 17:33.44 | brlcad | or even more, might just happen to use the same suffix |
| 17:33.51 | brlcad | dunno if he was reading the contents |
| 17:33.58 | starseeker | well, if that's the only thing that works, I guess that's what we go with |
| 17:34.16 | starseeker | emerges argouml to see what it's like |
| 17:34.18 | ``Erik | notes that the extension there is .eap where access is technically .mdb, 'file' told me it was access and some googling shows that the 'jet database' is what access actually calls itself internally |
| 17:34.44 | brlcad | on a more interesting note .. :) http://brlcad.org/tmp/tgcbug.rt |
| 17:34.51 | ``Erik | imagines some company wrote a 'jet database' and ms bought it, now windows tools just use it as a convenient backend, like sqlite |
| 17:35.19 | brlcad | isolated a tgc failure in havoc that returns only one hit point -- good test case |
| 17:37.44 | starseeker | hmm |
| 17:38.02 | ``Erik | the aging 'new' bz is all updated again |
| 17:38.04 | ``Erik | O.o |
| 17:38.39 | brlcad | woot |
| 17:38.57 | ``Erik | most sarcastic woot ever? :D *duck* |
| 17:39.04 | brlcad | nope, good stuff |
| 17:39.10 | brlcad | genuine wootage |
| 17:39.16 | starseeker | brlcad: confirmed, returns a miss here too |
| 17:39.19 | starseeker | odd |
| 17:39.33 | brlcad | it's a funky tgc with a pinched top, but it's a clean shot |
| 17:39.38 | ``Erik | migration would equal w00tage :D hop to, boy :D *duck* |
| 17:39.42 | brlcad | right into the side and out the flat disc |
| 17:40.35 | brlcad | nirt seems to plot the right entry and exit values, so kind of odd |
| 17:40.48 | brlcad | ``Erik: I did at least finally turn off the german server |
| 17:41.05 | brlcad | spent much of last week sorting that out |
| 17:41.22 | brlcad | they didn't want to "let me go" giving hell about terms I never agreed to |
| 17:41.32 | ``Erik | heh |
| 17:41.47 | ``Erik | lame, as much as I like the notion of having a backup on another continent, it sounds like they were being dickish |
| 17:41.57 | brlcad | they were, I was very surprised |
| 17:42.11 | brlcad | up until then, everything had been perfect/better with them |
| 17:42.17 | ``Erik | did the florida one agree to migrate your IP pool? |
| 17:42.47 | ``Erik | lotr on tnt, btw, good background noise |
| 17:42.53 | brlcad | but then they were royally being dicks when I asked to cancel .. and it was even originally just going to be temporary (until after bz is migrated, 6 months or so) |
| 17:43.04 | brlcad | they haven't answered |
| 17:44.20 | brlcad | even if I had agreed to an annual contract renewal (which I didn't), my message to them was 12 days before the end of term .. |
| 17:44.30 | brlcad | they claimed it needed to be 14 days in advance |
| 17:44.38 | brlcad | which just made me even more livid |
| 17:45.20 | brlcad | 6 e-mails later that just keep escalating, they finally agreed to my request |
| 17:45.30 | brlcad | very absurd, disappointing |
| 17:45.44 | ``Erik | hm, *shrug* they're probably feeling some economic crunch and have some pointy haired fuckwit that thinks forcing customers to stay is a viable business solution |
| 17:46.31 | ``Erik | lots of service companies seem to try that :( |
| 17:46.38 | brlcad | it's not like I'm going to just keep paying them for the hell of it, especially after that |
| 17:47.59 | brlcad | especially given that they had an interesting "we will terminate you instantly" clause if you put up porn |
| 17:48.16 | brlcad | I told them, do I *really* need to put up porn for you to get the point? |
| 17:48.56 | ``Erik | heh, nothin' like a goatse or lemonparty to get someones attention O.o |
| 17:49.06 | brlcad | especially given I didn't agree to the term and I was before the end of the term I didn't agree to anyways |
| 17:49.24 | brlcad | yeah, it was getting rather unpleasant |
| 17:49.44 | brlcad | so now I'm thinking about whether I'd ever go back to them |
| 17:49.52 | brlcad | shame really, it was just going to be temporary |
| 17:50.01 | ``Erik | there're still residual scars burnt into the back of my brain from when I saw a particularly ... 'hardcore' gay porn image iwth "verizon customer service" stashed in a humor pic site (I'm ok with nsfw, but this was not safe for human consumption) |
| 17:50.09 | brlcad | guess they don't realize how I throw money away at having servers on standby *cough* |
| 17:50.32 | brlcad | heh |
| 17:50.45 | brlcad | when it was heated, those thoughts were crossing my mind |
| 17:50.46 | *** join/#brlcad dreeves (n=IceChat7@64.178.177.71) |
| 17:51.13 | brlcad | wouldn't have taken a whole lot to turn the site into "custom porn" for them with entire transcripts of our discussions |
| 17:51.58 | ``Erik | have you seen http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YRgNOyCnbqg ? :D |
| 17:53.40 | ``Erik | aaanyays, the new machine seems solid. given that the old one provides many different services, it might be a good time to migrate some of the less critical or less connected ones over (like mebbe bind) |
| 17:54.01 | ``Erik | thinks 'incremental migration' might be a good strategy |
| 17:54.09 | ``Erik | until then, it's still my personal playpen I guess :D |
| 17:58.33 | brlcad | I fear migrating bind actually -- if you want to tackle that one, go for it |
| 18:01.07 | CIA-28 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r34242 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/primitives/tgc/tgc.c: note that the units being displayed are in 'mm' regardless of the local units set. |
| 18:02.52 | CIA-28 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r34243 10/brlcad/trunk/include/raytrace.h: |
| 18:02.52 | CIA-28 | BRL-CAD: allow a NULL parameter to be passed to RT_HIT_NORMAL if they don't have a normal |
| 18:02.52 | CIA-28 | BRL-CAD: array to be filled in and just want hitp->hit_normal to be calculated. this |
| 18:02.52 | CIA-28 | BRL-CAD: makes it pretty trivial to update code that used RT_HIT_NORM() over to |
| 18:02.52 | CIA-28 | BRL-CAD: RT_HIT_NORMAL() by just adding a NULL and 0 flip value. |
| 18:20.22 | *** join/#brlcad samrose (n=samrose@ip-207-145-38-45.iad.megapath.net) |
| 18:20.49 | brlcad | so for information purposes, I'm applying to the openusability call for projects |
| 18:21.04 | brlcad | there's little chance we'll be accepted as the deadline was a couple days ago, but applying anyways |
| 18:21.17 | brlcad | basically, it's similar to gsoc but specifically focused on usability |
| 18:21.50 | brlcad | and since usability is one of our biggest problems, I figure why not |
| 18:21.59 | brlcad | (unfortunately, I just heard about the effort) |
| 18:22.24 | ``Erik | ratemyui.com? O.o heh |
| 18:22.26 | brlcad | that said, need to know who (of developers) would be willing to mentor a usability project? |
| 18:22.29 | louipc | that's pretty cool |
| 18:22.37 | ``Erik | uiornot.com? |
| 18:22.41 | brlcad | (if you have commit access, you qualify) |
| 18:22.46 | louipc | I want all my console apps to have a vi-like interface hehe |
| 18:22.53 | brlcad | louipc: hehe |
| 18:22.58 | ``Erik | vi ftw |
| 18:23.10 | brlcad | scratches two names off the list! |
| 18:23.11 | brlcad | j/k |
| 18:24.10 | brlcad | unlike gsoc, I don't think they'd actually be coding -- I think their tasks are specifically towards usability specifications, mockups, specific guideline formulations, etc |
| 18:24.33 | brlcad | need an okay to give them your e-mail if you're interested |
| 18:25.26 | brlcad | was thinking perhaps starseeker and/or ``Erik and whomever else is interested |
| 18:39.27 | PrezKennedy | i want brlcad to be like emacs... some games and a mail app built right in |
| 18:45.50 | brlcad | I think we can make that happen |
| 18:46.00 | brlcad | even with justification! |
| 18:46.18 | brlcad | games for those down-time moments when they're waiting for a render or a conversion to complete |
| 18:46.28 | brlcad | mail app for .. discussing model changes, yeah |
| 18:48.55 | brlcad | starseeker: ``Erik: how about it? .. *crickets*? :) |
| 18:49.25 | archivist | irc window? |
| 18:49.33 | brlcad | archivist: hm? |
| 18:49.55 | brlcad | archivist: you up for mentoring a usability project? :) |
| 18:50.34 | archivist | dunno /me never dun nuffink like that |
| 18:51.05 | brlcad | would you like to do somefink like dat? |
| 18:51.52 | archivist | I would have a bias towards a Solidworks look alike :) |
| 18:52.02 | brlcad | that would be fantastic |
| 18:52.24 | brlcad | actually, that's very good usability background to be able to talk about with the student |
| 18:52.48 | louipc | I didn't think solidworks was very usable |
| 18:53.01 | archivist | heh! |
| 18:53.03 | louipc | autocad was better I think |
| 18:53.09 | archivist | hell no |
| 18:53.16 | brlcad | the point would be really to engage the student in a dialog |
| 18:53.23 | brlcad | be able to relate it to what industry does |
| 18:53.31 | brlcad | and to how / why we do things |
| 18:53.51 | brlcad | and then (I gather) to figure out what we can best focus on or how we can best approach improving our usability |
| 18:54.03 | brlcad | such that it fulfills expectations, is intuitive, is familiar, etc |
| 18:54.18 | brlcad | (and productive, can't forget the most important aspect) :) |
| 18:54.28 | brlcad | louipc: you interested? |
| 18:54.58 | louipc | maybe if I have a partner :P |
| 18:55.09 | brlcad | you're not exactly committing to anything firm just yet -- I just need to be able to give a list of potential mentors as part of our application |
| 18:55.36 | louipc | so I would just talk about what I find helps usability? |
| 18:55.48 | brlcad | I'd be glad to partner up there, I have a fair bit of usability training and experience (contrary to brl-cad's gui, heh) |
| 18:56.13 | brlcad | louipc: you would be mentoring a student that would be working on some specific aspect of usability |
| 18:56.49 | louipc | hah |
| 18:56.49 | brlcad | like lets say, hypothetically, that they were going to look at ways of making mged's existing menu mess be less of a mess |
| 18:57.17 | brlcad | or finding patterns in our 400+ commands and finding ways to make their command-line invocation more consistent and intuitive |
| 18:58.27 | louipc | Yeah I would like to, but I don't want to lead anyone on about knowing more than I really do... |
| 18:59.08 | louipc | brlcad: yeah that sounds alright |
| 18:59.17 | brlcad | or maybe formulating a specific case study on the usability of a prescribed interaction scenario, like modeling a cup, and going into excrutiating detail on the various calculatable metrics to suggest changes that would improve efficiency |
| 18:59.56 | louipc | that's a good one |
| 19:00.08 | brlcad | louipc: your familiarity and mentoring ability more comes from your ability to speak to (or figure out) what brl-cad does, what CAD does/requires in general, and to explain that to someone who probably has absolutely no experience with CAD |
| 19:00.16 | louipc | I was kind of doing that at one point |
| 19:00.48 | brlcad | sounds like we have a winner then! .. would you PM me an e-mail? |
| 19:01.08 | brlcad | still an outstanding question for archivist starseeker ``Erik ... and I'm sure more of you lurking here! |
| 19:01.40 | brlcad | usability is our biggest problem, this has huge impact potential |
| 19:02.06 | archivist | sure does |
| 19:02.33 | archivist | been trying and watching all sorts over the years |
| 19:02.44 | PrezKennedy | brlcad needs a ribbon :) |
| 19:02.54 | louipc | archivist: I don't like how solidworks is so click-and-point dialog-box heaven :P |
| 19:03.17 | archivist | its faster once you are used to it |
| 19:03.38 | brlcad | PrezKennedy: are you saying you want to mentor too? :) |
| 19:03.51 | archivist | and on a cold day you can keep one hand in your pocket |
| 19:03.51 | PrezKennedy | poor kid would be ruined for life |
| 19:04.50 | brlcad | humorously and coincedentally relevant: http://corsix.org/gsoc/ribbon.html |
| 19:04.59 | louipc | well actually the point-and-click is more usable for novices |
| 19:05.01 | PrezKennedy | brlcad, am i even qualified to mentor anything? :p |
| 19:05.32 | brlcad | PrezKennedy: undoubtedly |
| 19:08.27 | PrezKennedy | scary, but it could be fun |
| 19:14.00 | ``Erik | *readreadread* |
| 19:14.37 | ``Erik | I have strange notions about usability, I kinda prefer mged -c to mged for the incredibly rare occasion when I can be assed to do it... O.o |
| 19:15.00 | brlcad | ``Erik: so you could mentor someone specifically about command-line usability metrics |
| 19:15.07 | louipc | ``Erik: I agree |
| 19:15.11 | brlcad | they still propose what they're actually going to work on |
| 19:15.13 | louipc | :D |
| 19:15.14 | brlcad | similar to gsoc |
| 19:15.40 | brlcad | thinks brl-cad would be a formidable usability playground .. lots of ways to improve |
| 19:16.45 | ``Erik | *shrug* whatever, I suppose |
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| 19:23.18 | *** join/#brlcad pacman87 (i=500@resnet-46-40.dorm.utexas.edu) |
| 19:23.36 | brlcad | ``Erik: cool |
| 19:38.30 | PrezKennedy | dont forget to make it web 2.0! |
| 19:38.58 | ``Erik | web 7.14, yo |
| 19:39.32 | PrezKennedy | web 3.11 for workgroups |
| 19:40.09 | ``Erik | web bob? O.o |
| 19:40.09 | archivist | object oriented assembler rulz |
| 19:41.17 | archivist | sad thing is that did exist as a book Object oriented assembly language byL. Dirfman |
| 19:41.31 | archivist | worse...I have it |
| 19:42.30 | ``Erik | it's called objc, right? :D |
| 19:42.49 | ``Erik | C is the pdp11 assembler, right? |
| 19:45.08 | archivist | High Level Assembler :) |
| 19:45.32 | archivist | I shouldnt joks as that exists as well |
| 19:46.57 | ``Erik | dang wussies and yoru labels and stuff *shakes cane* whatever happened to good old machine code monitors? :D |
| 19:50.01 | *** join/#brlcad pacman87_ (n=pacman87@bz.bzflag.bz) |
| 19:50.19 | *** join/#brlcad dreeves (n=dreeves@64.178.177.71) |
| 20:15.43 | pacman87_ | ssh + screen + irssi + ipod touch ftw |
| 20:22.37 | brlcad | heh, where'd you get an ssh client from? |
| 20:24.39 | pacman87 | app store |
| 20:25.00 | brlcad | huh |
| 20:25.31 | brlcad | haven't syncd my phone in few months.. probably should |
| 20:31.25 | brlcad | which app do you have? looks like there's at least 4 |
| 20:32.37 | brlcad | jugaari looks like it might be worth it if it does all it says.. |
| 20:33.01 | pacman87_ | iSSH |
| 20:33.22 | brlcad | er, jaadu |
| 20:36.32 | CIA-28 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r34244 10/brlcad/trunk/src/ (11 files in 4 dirs): remove all references and instances of the old deprecated RT_HIT_NORM() macro, instead using the new RT_HIT_NORMAL() macro. |
| 20:37.57 | pacman87_ | i won the ipod in a coding competition |
| 20:38.05 | pacman87_ | got 3rd |
| 20:38.12 | brlcad | hah, awesome |
| 20:38.23 | pacman87_ | .2% away from 2nd |
| 20:38.33 | brlcad | what was 2nd's prize? :) |
| 20:38.46 | pacman87_ | 24in hdtv/monitor |
| 20:38.47 | brlcad | acm competition? |
| 20:39.04 | pacman87_ | no, amd sponsored |
| 20:39.11 | brlcad | lemme guess, first was an amd laptop? :) |
| 20:39.21 | pacman87_ | desktop |
| 20:39.25 | brlcad | ah |
| 20:39.33 | pacman87_ | plus tumer dard |
| 20:39.38 | pacman87_ | card |
| 20:39.46 | pacman87_ | quad core |
| 20:40.14 | brlcad | nice prizes |
| 20:40.45 | brlcad | the touch is probably a more useful productive use of your time than an hdtv would have been :) |
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| 20:41.21 | pacman87_ | probably |
| 20:41.44 | pacman87_ | and my gf likes playing with it |
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| 20:44.55 | *** part/#brlcad _pseudo (n=irchon@wireless-128-62-174-226.public.utexas.edu) |
| 22:11.52 | ``Erik | /t 04:42PM <pacman87_> and my gf likes playing with it |
| 22:11.55 | ``Erik | O:-) |
| 22:13.39 | yukonbob | "hey baby, wanna i-touch?" |
| 22:14.12 | yukonbob | "You mean an iPod Touch?" |
| 22:14.15 | yukonbob | "not exactly" |
| 22:14.24 | pacman87_ | was wondering when someone would say something... |
| 22:14.35 | yukonbob | hi pacman87_ :) |
| 22:14.45 | pacman87_ | howdy |
| 22:18.00 | pacman87 | ping times to my ipod vary from 44ms to 1000 |
| 22:18.15 | pacman87 | or 15000 |
| 22:18.18 | pacman87 | 1500 |
| 22:20.09 | yukonbob | ?ping times |
| 22:20.37 | pacman87 | ssh out, ping back in |
| 22:21.06 | yukonbob | ah... /me forgot you said Touch, even after was joking about it. :P |
| 22:21.57 | pacman87 | maybe i shouldn't port bzflag to it :P |
| 22:23.08 | pacman87 | wifi access all over campus is very nice |
| 22:23.23 | pacman87 | having the internet in my pocket :D |
| 22:32.35 | brlcad | pacman87: it was too easy ;) |
| 22:33.25 | dreeves | brlcad are you aware that dented sphere is a revsurface? |
| 22:33.28 | brlcad | pacman87: didn't you hear my rant in the channel about the latency last year wrt ipod/iphone port of bzflag? |
| 22:33.45 | brlcad | dreeves: yeah, I vaguely recall that |
| 22:33.45 | pacman87 | i must've missed that one |
| 22:33.51 | pacman87 | ~logs |
| 22:33.52 | ibot | All conversations are logged to http://ibot.rikers.org/channel, where "channel" is replaced by the URL-encoded channel name, such as %23freenode for #freenode. Lines starting with spaces are not logged. |
| 22:34.13 | brlcad | not so much a rant as several semi-extended discussions about why it'd kinda suck as a client :) |
| 22:34.28 | pacman87 | yeah, every other packet took really long |
| 22:34.34 | pacman87 | and ended up out of order |
| 22:34.43 | brlcad | even if you could buffer up and stabilize the networking, the cpu is a bit of a problem being somewhat weak |
| 22:34.50 | brlcad | and being fully-interruptible |
| 22:34.57 | pacman87 | radar-only! |
| 22:35.03 | brlcad | the OS steals time from everything including itself at times.. |
| 22:35.35 | brlcad | even when your app is running, especially if you make a system call |
| 22:35.57 | *** join/#brlcad BigAToo (n=BigAToo@pool-96-230-124-244.sbndin.btas.verizon.net) |
| 22:37.32 | pacman87 | i don't suppose there's an easy to search the online logs |
| 22:37.40 | brlcad | nah, it sucks |
| 22:37.47 | brlcad | but I basically just gave you the abridged version |
| 22:38.08 | pacman87 | k |
| 22:44.49 | *** join/#brlcad elite01 (n=omg@unaffiliated/elite01) |
| 22:54.13 | hippieindamakin8 | good morning/ good afternoon folks |
| 22:55.38 | hippieindamakin8 | woah ipod/iphone port of bzflag : cool |
| 23:53.59 | starseeker | dreeves: how is it revolved? around the center of the dent? |