| 00:34.03 | *** join/#brlcad samrose (n=samrose@c-24-11-214-181.hsd1.mi.comcast.net) |
| 00:46.19 | yukonbob | hi, cadheads |
| 00:57.25 | CIA-40 | BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r34176 10/brlcad/trunk/doc/docbook/system/man1/en/ (6 files): Add debug* MGED command docbook man pages (Janine and Cliff) |
| 01:00.01 | *** join/#brlcad tessier_ (n=treed@kernel-panic/sex-machines) |
| 01:00.03 | tessier_ | WOW |
| 01:00.23 | tessier_ | I've known about brl-cad for many years. Since the mid-90's I think. |
| 01:00.36 | tessier_ | It has always languished in obscurity. Glad to see it is finally taking off! |
| 01:01.02 | starseeker | :-) |
| 01:01.06 | starseeker | open source helps that |
| 01:01.52 | starseeker | tessier_: did you ever use it? |
| 01:01.56 | *** join/#brlcad elite01 (n=omg@unaffiliated/elite01) |
| 01:02.12 | tessier_ | I compiled it once. Fired it up. No no clue wtf I was doing. Never touched it again. |
| 01:02.18 | tessier_ | Had no clue |
| 01:02.39 | ``Erik | kebert xela |
| 01:02.55 | ``Erik | academic, gov't or industry, tessier? :) |
| 01:03.33 | ``Erik | (supposedly we had a couple thousand registered sites before going open source) |
| 01:05.41 | dreeves | starseeker thanks I will take a look |
| 01:09.19 | tessier_ | I am in what you would call industry |
| 01:13.20 | ``Erik | I think the only industry chunks where BRL-CAD got serious traction before going open sources defense |
| 01:25.30 | CIA-40 | BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r34177 10/brlcad/trunk/doc/docbook/system/man1/en/ (Makefile.am decompose.xml delay.xml dm.xml): Add the rest of the d* MGED command docbook man pages (Janine and Cliff) |
| 01:39.48 | AlexandreGuedes | brlcad |
| 01:41.48 | AlexandreGuedes | I can answer the comment about the my project there ? |
| 02:20.03 | madant | AlexandreGuedes, you can use the channel for discussion, response to the comment or otherwise , and you can post a response comment at the application as well , i think :) |
| 02:41.45 | ``Erik | (don't ask to ask, brlcad will read the backlog. and http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html :) |
| 03:06.36 | *** join/#brlcad ``Erik (i=erik@c-76-111-12-116.hsd1.md.comcast.net) |
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| 06:54.20 | CIA-40 | BRL-CAD: 03ddreeves70 * r34178 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/primitives/brep/brep.cpp: |
| 06:54.20 | CIA-40 | BRL-CAD: fixed a bug that was causing some error points in the hit point list returned. |
| 06:54.20 | CIA-40 | BRL-CAD: I wasn't initializing the hit bool in the intersect function. This was causing |
| 06:54.20 | CIA-40 | BRL-CAD: at random times for the ray origin to show up on the hit point list. |
| 06:56.03 | dreeves | good news I was able to get rid of the big ole hack in shot found the bug that was causing that. I think the main issue is lack of trimming now |
| 06:56.51 | brlcad | lack of trimming? |
| 06:56.58 | brlcad | it's trimming from the looks of things |
| 06:57.07 | brlcad | dreeves: did you get the sample breps? |
| 06:57.43 | dreeves | yes I have raytraced some it is handing them much better with the bug fix |
| 06:58.05 | dreeves | Although there is still issues but I think those are because of the lack of trimming |
| 06:58.29 | dreeves | The box had no problems |
| 06:58.42 | dreeves | the cone hit some issues about mid way up |
| 07:00.26 | dreeves | I haven't converted the trimming code over yet |
| 07:01.13 | brlcad | okay, hrm.. looked like you had |
| 07:01.18 | dreeves | I have started but I'm still matching up how open nurbs stores trims vs the utah code |
| 07:02.21 | dreeves | No I think if I had that working we would have fully functional nurbs raytracer |
| 07:02.38 | dreeves | because I think most everything else is extremely close |
| 07:03.21 | brlcad | thoughts on the tolerance issues? |
| 07:03.47 | brlcad | I mean the issue of having to hard-code tolerances for this given set of inputs, then find a different set of inputs where those tolerance assumptions are no longer valid, for example |
| 07:07.16 | brlcad | dreeves: by the way, very impressive progress |
| 07:07.19 | brlcad | to say the least |
| 07:08.17 | dreeves | I think I need to think that a bit because I messed with that a little and didn't get the results I expected I set aside for the time to focus on the big ole hack because that was really bothering me |
| 07:08.31 | dreeves | thanks brlcad it is cool to work on this |
| 07:09.19 | brlcad | it's nice to see someone that can just jump in and make progress, I can't even mentally make the context switch to dig into that code without getting a lot of other things off my plate |
| 07:09.22 | dreeves | It's alot of fun |
| 07:09.34 | brlcad | which hasn't happened in a long while, and as such progress has been very very slow |
| 07:10.34 | dreeves | Well I think think the things you are doing are every bit as valuable to this project |
| 07:11.28 | dreeves | It has been a little while but it seems I'm getting into the swing of it |
| 07:11.59 | dreeves | In fact without some of the things you are doing there would be no project for me to have this fun with thanks!! |
| 07:12.05 | CIA-40 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r34179 10/brlcad/trunk/AUTHORS: note the recent code contributions from dreeves. he's been working on the nurbs/brep ray-tracing, woot |
| 07:12.26 | brlcad | oh I'm not downplaying anything I do, just that haven't made much progress on that task :) |
| 07:12.41 | brlcad | which does get frustrating, of course, even when I know it's for other reasons ;) |
| 07:12.59 | dreeves | Yeah I can understand that |
| 07:13.34 | brlcad | just like it's frustrating that we don't have a new gui yet, but I knew 8 years ago that it would take a long while to get everything in place (and it's finally starting to come together maintainably) |
| 07:13.42 | dreeves | You seem to be working day an night on your stuff |
| 07:13.59 | brlcad | pretty much, love it ;) |
| 07:14.26 | brlcad | which reminds me.. would be cool to run the speckle activity graph again |
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| 07:14.38 | brlcad | given it's been several years since the last time |
| 07:14.43 | dreeves | Yeah as you I am very interested in the gui. I don't know if you or not but my start I was a modeler |
| 07:15.06 | brlcad | nods |
| 07:15.26 | dreeves | so quite abit of experience with the "gui" |
| 07:16.46 | brlcad | the bigger issue with evolving brl-cad's modeling interface is doing so in a way that improves the interface without pissing off current expert modelers, which generally involves lots and lots of small incremental changes and even more refactoring |
| 07:17.14 | brlcad | that's the part that I seem to enjoy a lot of, refactoring the codebase into reusable organized sections |
| 07:17.28 | dreeves | Yeah I fight that problem all the time trust me. |
| 07:17.48 | brlcad | mged's finally at the point where we have most of its "meat" out of it now and into a library |
| 07:18.00 | brlcad | that took about a year and a half of almost non-stop effort by bob |
| 07:18.04 | brlcad | and others |
| 07:18.19 | yukonbob | listens in... |
| 07:18.38 | dreeves | Yeah I remember way when hacking mged code to add commands |
| 07:18.40 | brlcad | archer is a good refactoring that fixes many of the bigger fuglinesses in mged, it will be nice to see those two merge |
| 07:18.58 | brlcad | adding new mged commands is still fun (and now even easier than ever) ;) |
| 07:19.22 | brlcad | still more work needed on libged, but it's definitely coming together as a stateless command API |
| 07:19.35 | dreeves | Yeah arch definitely seems like a step up but I think in the end it is important for the interface to get more intuitive |
| 07:19.59 | brlcad | need a few new facilities like active selection sets, but then it should be fully quasi-modeless |
| 07:20.21 | brlcad | sure, archer is just one of those incremental steps |
| 07:21.00 | dreeves | You know something to think about would be how to you encapsulate all the behavior associated with a primitive |
| 07:21.11 | brlcad | that gives current modelers their same commands, familiar terminology, and similar options, but still shocks them with window management and extra information panels (hierarchy views, edit panels, single window default views, etc) |
| 07:21.44 | brlcad | they're pretty much encapsulated as it is minus a few rogue commands that still need to be pushed up into librt |
| 07:22.31 | brlcad | 95% of a primitive is in a dir in src/librt/primitive/ with the callback table for each 'method' of interest |
| 07:22.38 | dreeves | what I'm talking about is a primitive knows everything about itself how to rt, how to read, write and edit |
| 07:23.01 | brlcad | that's what it does now |
| 07:23.17 | dreeves | Really |
| 07:23.35 | dreeves | I thought editing behavior was in libged and rt was in librt? |
| 07:23.40 | brlcad | yeah, that's the callback table I was referring to |
| 07:24.07 | brlcad | there's a hook for prep, shot, read, write, describe, plot, ... etc, about 20 different things that defines a primitive |
| 07:24.48 | dreeves | agreed librt definitely has most but appears to lack the hooks for editing?? but again I could definitely be missing something |
| 07:25.27 | brlcad | the 5% that isn't in there are the bits that need to be refactored and pushed up as another hook or two, which includes things like 'mirror' (specific copy contructor), 'typein' (well-defined explicit constructor), and 'make' (default constructor) |
| 07:25.41 | brlcad | yeah, editing is in that 5% -- it's actually not a lot of hooks |
| 07:25.43 | dreeves | oh ok |
| 07:27.05 | brlcad | the biggest thing presently lacking is object validation as a specific callback routine |
| 07:27.12 | brlcad | right now that happens during the prep() callback for raytracing |
| 07:27.20 | brlcad | or for some primitives during read/write |
| 07:27.31 | brlcad | but not as a specific callback in itself |
| 07:27.35 | brlcad | that is needed |
| 07:27.51 | dreeves | how do you do the * dreeves nods in irc |
| 07:27.54 | brlcad | that's related to the parametric constraint support too |
| 07:28.27 | brlcad | shows dreeves how to use "/me shows dreeves how to use /me" |
| 07:28.46 | dreeves | nods |
| 07:28.50 | dreeves | ah ok |
| 07:28.52 | dreeves | thanks |
| 07:28.55 | brlcad | np |
| 07:30.08 | dreeves | Yeah I have been nosing around a little in what is going on with the libged stuff but for the most part trying to focus on this brep stuff |
| 07:30.32 | dreeves | seems like plenty of people focusing on mged currently |
| 07:30.53 | brlcad | nothing complicated, literally a straightforward refactoring of all commands in mged to make them a single argc/argv style function |
| 07:31.20 | brlcad | but that in itself requires/required rewriting *many* of the commands to make them work stateless and to work without Tcl |
| 07:31.39 | dreeves | Yeah that was what I was about ask |
| 07:32.09 | brlcad | entailed refactoring about 100k-150k lines of code |
| 07:32.54 | brlcad | just to get them into the simple form they are now of ged_[command]() |
| 07:35.13 | dreeves | so if memory serves me right wasn't the original commands in the whole argc/argv form (not factored out but in that form within mged) |
| 07:37.58 | brlcad | they were already 'mostly' in an argc/argv form but they weren't stateless |
| 07:38.25 | brlcad | many/most of them were tightly integrated with mged's various global state objects and edit modes |
| 07:39.04 | brlcad | so they would just set flags and expect things to happen or add things to some random global, etc |
| 07:39.07 | dreeves | yeah that is definitely true I remember |
| 07:39.23 | brlcad | very ugly in some places |
| 07:39.33 | dreeves | I remember that made things tough on a young programmer |
| 07:39.34 | brlcad | most of that is *much* more clean now |
| 07:39.53 | brlcad | the commands get passed a "working set" of objects and views to work on |
| 07:40.14 | brlcad | they fill out results for that working set |
| 07:40.21 | dreeves | Yeah thats cool |
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| 07:40.31 | brlcad | de-coupling tcl was the other big task |
| 07:40.52 | dreeves | Yeah I imagine that was a very big task |
| 07:41.05 | brlcad | but that was mostly changing a lot of function calls from tcl-things-that-does-something-like-printf to a bu-routine-that-does-something-like-printf |
| 07:41.14 | brlcad | not tricky logic-wise |
| 07:41.26 | brlcad | just thousands of lines of code in mostly non-scriptable ways |
| 07:41.30 | brlcad | tedious |
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| 07:41.47 | dreeves | I was going to say that sounds very very tedious |
| 07:42.09 | dreeves | take a special kind of person or people to do that |
| 07:42.16 | brlcad | yeah |
| 07:42.39 | dreeves | Has Ed seen the progress on the brep stuff? |
| 07:43.07 | brlcad | absolutely |
| 07:43.14 | brlcad | pretty exciting |
| 07:43.28 | dreeves | Yeah I didn't know if he had seen it yet |
| 07:43.39 | dreeves | He really helped get me set on the right path |
| 07:43.42 | brlcad | yeah, we've talked about it several times, yesterday included |
| 07:44.01 | dreeves | talking to me on the phone the other day |
| 07:44.06 | brlcad | yeah, he told me |
| 07:44.24 | dreeves | saved me a lot of retrenching time |
| 07:46.32 | dreeves | Ok I'm rerunning the test cases I had forgotten that I had uncommented the incomplete trimming code so bunch of blank images |
| 07:47.21 | dreeves | needs to check to see if he committed that code |
| 07:49.11 | dreeves | hey you want me to send you the images or post them on the mailing list? |
| 07:49.37 | brlcad | heh, saw that |
| 07:49.46 | brlcad | you did, commented it out |
| 07:50.22 | brlcad | mailing list posts are almost always better (to brlcad-devel unless you clean it up as a 'preview' for the unwashed user masses) |
| 07:50.39 | brlcad | just so it hits more eyes |
| 07:50.51 | dreeves | yeah I just checked |
| 07:50.55 | brlcad | another option is to set up some development progress page on the wiki and post a link to that to brlcad-devel |
| 07:51.39 | dreeves | that would be cool I will admit I don't know how to do that though |
| 07:52.08 | dreeves | I could probably figure it out if you tell me I have the capability from a permission stand point |
| 07:52.17 | yukonbob | !! clock! Haven't seen him in ages... |
| 07:52.31 | brlcad | dreeves: you do, the wiki is wide open |
| 07:53.03 | brlcad | should create an account on the wiki just so you don't have to keep answering a captcha, but from there it's very simple |
| 07:53.14 | brlcad | just like editing wikipedia |
| 07:54.02 | brlcad | basically, would probably start by editing this page and adding a link to a new brep/nurbs page: http://brlcad.org/wiki/Developer_Documents |
| 07:55.12 | brlcad | you can use another dev page (like http://brlcad.org/wiki/Revolve_Primitive ) as an example |
| 07:55.33 | brlcad | maybe http://brlcad.org/wiki/BREP_Primitive for that matter |
| 07:57.14 | dreeves | ok I will give it a go |
| 08:04.52 | CIA-40 | BRL-CAD: 03Sean 07http://brlcad.org * r1356 10/wiki/FAQ: what does BRL mean? |
| 08:07.07 | CIA-40 | BRL-CAD: 03Sean 07http://brlcad.org * r1357 10/wiki/FAQ: how do you pronounce brl-cad |
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| 08:10.00 | CIA-40 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r34180 10/brlcad/trunk/doc/description.txt: unacceptible is unacceptable |
| 08:10.44 | CIA-40 | BRL-CAD: 03Ddreeves70 07http://brlcad.org * r1358 10/wiki/Developer_Documents: |
| 08:13.04 | CIA-40 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r34181 10/brlcad/trunk/doc/description.txt: gah, more non-acceptablisms |
| 08:14.16 | CIA-40 | BRL-CAD: 03Ddreeves70 07http://brlcad.org * r1359 10/wiki/BREP_Primitive: New page: {{DesignDocument}} = Overview = More to follow just starting this page. Will try to populate all the sections tomorrow with status of the work on BREP. = Internal Representation = = ... |
| 08:15.19 | CIA-40 | BRL-CAD: 03Sean 07http://brlcad.org * r1360 10/wiki/FAQ: how to spell brl-cad |
| 08:18.26 | CIA-40 | BRL-CAD: 03Ddreeves70 07http://brlcad.org * r0 10/wiki/Special:Log/upload: uploaded "[[Image:Box.png]]": BREP Box in the nurb_tests.g that was provided to me by starseeker. |
| 08:20.36 | CIA-40 | BRL-CAD: 03Ddreeves70 07http://brlcad.org * r1362 10/wiki/BREP_Primitive: |
| 08:21.47 | CIA-40 | BRL-CAD: 03Ddreeves70 07http://brlcad.org * r0 10/wiki/Special:Log/upload: uploaded "[[Image:Brep Cone.png]]": Brep of a cone provide in the nurbs test by starseeker |
| 08:24.13 | CIA-40 | BRL-CAD: 03Ddreeves70 07http://brlcad.org * r1364 10/wiki/BREP_Primitive: /* Current Images of test cases */ |
| 08:25.56 | CIA-40 | BRL-CAD: 03Ddreeves70 07http://brlcad.org * r1365 10/wiki/BREP_Primitive: /* Current Images of test cases */ |
| 08:27.40 | CIA-40 | BRL-CAD: 03Ddreeves70 07http://brlcad.org * r0 10/wiki/Special:Log/upload: uploaded "[[Image:Brep Cylinder.png]]" |
| 08:28.21 | CIA-40 | BRL-CAD: 03Ddreeves70 07http://brlcad.org * r1367 10/wiki/BREP_Primitive: /* Current Images of test cases */ |
| 08:28.40 | CIA-40 | BRL-CAD: 03Ddreeves70 07http://brlcad.org * r1368 10/wiki/BREP_Primitive: /* Current Images of test cases */ |
| 08:30.10 | CIA-40 | BRL-CAD: 03Ddreeves70 07http://brlcad.org * r0 10/wiki/Special:Log/upload: uploaded "[[Image:Brep dentedSphere.png]]" |
| 08:30.23 | CIA-40 | BRL-CAD: 03Sean 07http://brlcad.org * r1370 10/wiki/FAQ: what is brl-cad and what license do we use? |
| 08:31.08 | CIA-40 | BRL-CAD: 03Ddreeves70 07http://brlcad.org * r0 10/wiki/Special:Log/upload: uploaded "[[Image:Brep Pipe.png]]" |
| 08:31.59 | CIA-40 | BRL-CAD: 03Ddreeves70 07http://brlcad.org * r0 10/wiki/Special:Log/upload: uploaded "[[Image:Brep Torus.png]]" |
| 08:33.39 | CIA-40 | BRL-CAD: 03Ddreeves70 07http://brlcad.org * r1373 10/wiki/BREP_Primitive: /* Current Images of test cases */ |
| 08:34.50 | dreeves | brlcad I have them posted I suppose I will go send a message on the mailing list |
| 08:35.16 | dreeves | More work todo on that page plus more images but I need to grab a few hours sleep |
| 08:40.03 | *** join/#brlcad hippieindamakin8 (n=hippiein@202.3.77.38) |
| 08:41.02 | brlcad | dreeves: sounds good |
| 08:41.30 | brlcad | looks good too |
| 08:45.09 | dreeves | ok I also sent mail to the mailing list but I haven't seen it show up yet |
| 08:46.19 | dreeves | brlcad I really like the pipe and the torus...although on the torus I see a few spots but I can think I could bump the tolerance and get rid of those but right now I want to focus on trimming I will get back to that in due time |
| 09:39.56 | *** join/#brlcad mafm (n=mafm@223.Red-83-49-86.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net) |
| 09:40.51 | *** join/#brlcad mafm (n=mafm@223.Red-83-49-86.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net) |
| 09:40.57 | mafm | hi |
| 09:41.33 | hippieindamakin8 | hey mafm |
| 10:02.28 | brlcad | dreeves: yeah, the pipe is particularly impressive |
| 10:02.38 | brlcad | it has some acne problems as well on one of the tips |
| 10:02.45 | brlcad | probably trimming related |
| 10:10.27 | dreeves | I think I have the others look good now... I guess I'm not sure it is trimming again for some reason I am getting an odd intersection count. I just throw away the last intersection and it looks great. However, the dented sphere will still probably messed up. Just got think those issue shouldn't be cause by timming. Also bumped the tolerance seemed to eliminate the acne |
| 10:19.43 | CIA-40 | BRL-CAD: 03Ddreeves70 07http://brlcad.org * r0 10/wiki/Special:Log/upload: uploaded a new version of "[[Image:Brep Cone.png]]" |
| 10:20.18 | CIA-40 | BRL-CAD: 03Ddreeves70 07http://brlcad.org * r0 10/wiki/Special:Log/upload: uploaded a new version of "[[Image:Brep Cylinder.png]]" |
| 10:21.56 | CIA-40 | BRL-CAD: 03Ddreeves70 07http://brlcad.org * r0 10/wiki/Special:Log/upload: uploaded a new version of "[[Image:Brep Torus.png]]" |
| 10:25.05 | CIA-40 | BRL-CAD: 03Ddreeves70 07http://brlcad.org * r0 10/wiki/Special:Log/upload: uploaded a new version of "[[Image:Brep Torus.png]]" |
| 10:25.50 | dreeves | brlcad when you have a chance I have updated the images with the changes I talked about |
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| 10:28.16 | CIA-40 | BRL-CAD: 03Ddreeves70 07http://brlcad.org * r0 10/wiki/Special:Log/upload: uploaded a new version of "[[Image:Brep dentedSphere.png]]" |
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| 10:56.53 | brlcad | dreeves: nice! definitely looking much better |
| 10:58.53 | brlcad | there are still a variety of parity problems causing the acne, but it's definitely getting reduced |
| 11:00.02 | brlcad | dented sphere is particularly odd as the inner sphere seems to be inverted with wrong normals |
| 11:00.51 | brlcad | the last bit of acne on the pipe is probably a parity issue hitting that back face |
| 11:01.00 | dreeves | Yeah some strange things going on with that one. On a good note though I think it is clear from the cylinder where we aren't trimming |
| 11:01.30 | dreeves | So now I have good test case for trouble shooting the trimming. So I think I will get that fixed next then focus on the tolerance issues |
| 11:01.39 | brlcad | cool |
| 11:01.54 | brlcad | goes to shower |
| 11:02.15 | dreeves | The utah paper makes reference to particular watching the tolerances |
| 11:05.01 | CIA-40 | BRL-CAD: 03ddreeves70 * r34182 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/primitives/brep/brep.cpp: more tweaking of the tolerances in BREP |
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| 13:01.40 | Malyce | I tried sh -xe libtoolize -a -c |
| 13:01.56 | Malyce | gave me: Can't open libtoolize |
| 13:02.48 | Malyce | also, stole a machine with Vstudio 2008 |
| 13:02.56 | Malyce | where are the VC proj files ? |
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| 13:04.34 | Malyce | the first line was on a ubuntu machine, where autogen.sh was complaining that libtoolize and autoreconf failed |
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| 13:17.17 | brlcad | Malyce: for what it's worth, I'm starting to get the impression that you don't look for things very hard or for very long |
| 13:17.55 | brlcad | gsoc and open source development in general really requires a lot of independent thinking and problem solving skills |
| 13:18.59 | Malyce | I understand what you mean |
| 13:19.11 | _clock_ | brlcad: do you like gsoc? |
| 13:19.26 | brlcad | you really should have absolutely no problem finding the vc proj files, and you asking for them just shows that you either didn't look and was looking for a quick answer or you sort of looked but didn't immediately find it so you asked |
| 13:19.38 | brlcad | _clock_: absolutely, it's a pretty great program |
| 13:19.42 | Malyce | i must be missing something obvious |
| 13:19.48 | Malyce | its not in the svn checkout |
| 13:19.54 | Malyce | and no mention on the wiki |
| 13:20.00 | Malyce | or did i miss something? |
| 13:20.01 | brlcad | it is in the svn checkout |
| 13:20.23 | brlcad | how did you look for it? |
| 13:20.42 | brlcad | randomly browsing around directories isn't exactly effective on any large codebase |
| 13:21.04 | brlcad | you have to use an effective searching mechanism |
| 13:21.19 | Malyce | I looked on the wiki first, when it wasn't obvious |
| 13:21.29 | Malyce | I found a directory in /misc |
| 13:21.43 | alex_joni | Malyce: I think I compiled brlcad once a couple years ago, but I don't really follow it |
| 13:21.51 | Malyce | but there doesn't seem to be a single .proj file, or am I wrong ? |
| 13:21.52 | alex_joni | still it took me < 1 minute to find this: http://brlcad.svn.sourceforge.net/viewvc/brlcad/brlcad/trunk/doc/README.Windows?revision=28028&view=markup |
| 13:22.18 | brlcad | alex_joni: yep, or barring that there is also google, which points you straight to the file too |
| 13:22.41 | brlcad | if it's not a lack of effort, it's a lack of process/tools |
| 13:23.43 | brlcad | and yes, part of gsoc is certainly learning -- learning how to approach a task and how to find things is an important skill |
| 13:24.37 | Malyce | i googled 'brl-cad building vc++ project' |
| 13:24.42 | Malyce | and then looked on the wiki |
| 13:24.51 | Malyce | but yes, I am incompetent |
| 13:25.03 | Malyce | but not for lack of trying |
| 13:25.27 | brlcad | heh, not incompetent |
| 13:25.58 | brlcad | just need to hone those skills a bit, look a bit harder, bit more thorough until you learn more |
| 13:26.03 | alex_joni | Malyce: don't get discouraged immediately |
| 13:26.07 | Malyce | Right now, I am sitting in front of three machines, trying to get this thing to compile |
| 13:26.13 | alex_joni | it takes a while to get used to the OSS way of doing things |
| 13:26.17 | Malyce | but I am new to this |
| 13:26.36 | alex_joni | Malyce: I think the most important skill one needs to bring is patience |
| 13:26.40 | Malyce | if I am slow, it is my inexperience |
| 13:26.54 | Malyce | but back to the point, the readme mention MSVC6 and 7 |
| 13:27.06 | Malyce | the directory has 8 and 9 |
| 13:27.15 | alex_joni | if you're patient enough to read things before you jump ahead, sometimes it's lots easier to get things working |
| 13:27.35 | alex_joni | Malyce: means that document is probably outdated (you can see the last change date ~2 years ago) |
| 13:27.38 | Malyce | It says that it is possible to build on 8 |
| 13:27.49 | brlcad | for what it's worth, "brl-cad building vc++ project" isn't a great search term -- vc++ won't match much and the other terms are pretty general |
| 13:28.03 | brlcad | your original query here was actually better, you called it vcproj |
| 13:28.04 | Malyce | right, what should I have looked for ? |
| 13:28.15 | Malyce | I think I looked for that too |
| 13:28.16 | brlcad | searching for "brl-cad vcproj" probably would have been a lot more effectiv |
| 13:28.42 | Malyce | or not |
| 13:29.19 | brlcad | looks right to me, the first links point you at misc/win32-msvc8 |
| 13:29.32 | Malyce | yes |
| 13:29.35 | Malyce | my mistake |
| 13:29.38 | brlcad | down the line, almost the entire page points to that dir |
| 13:29.42 | Malyce | yes |
| 13:30.12 | Malyce | makes sense now |
| 13:31.14 | brlcad | Malyce: really not trying to be hard on you, fwiw |
| 13:31.26 | brlcad | I do want you to do better, for your sake and ours :) |
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| 13:31.55 | alex_joni | brlcad: otoh, I always fopund it helpful when new people come around and report things that are not intuitive or easy to find |
| 13:32.10 | alex_joni | it's great to get fresh eyes on something that feels natural to me... |
| 13:32.21 | alex_joni | especially documentation |
| 13:32.46 | brlcad | it's a skill like any other -- finding doc/README.Windows would have also worked, which the README and INSTALL point you at (or at least one of them does, iirc) -- which at least pushes you in the right direction even with it being a little dated |
| 13:32.59 | brlcad | yeah, it's useful feedback |
| 13:33.28 | brlcad | the windows readme certainly needs updating, that was at least uncovered |
| 13:34.03 | Malyce | you are right, I am making too many noob mistakes |
| 13:34.05 | brlcad | and knowing which of the 300 dirs in misc/win32-msvc8 dirs is the one to start with |
| 13:34.20 | brlcad | though if you read the list carefully, only one makes sense |
| 13:34.49 | Malyce | brl-cad |
| 13:35.15 | brlcad | bingo |
| 13:35.21 | brlcad | sans hypen of course |
| 13:35.25 | brlcad | hyphen even |
| 13:37.39 | alex_joni | that might be even easier to find, if someone knows what a .sln file is |
| 13:38.22 | alex_joni | "This is a structure file for organizing projects in Microsoft Visual Studio. It contains text-based information about the project environment and project state." |
| 13:38.51 | Malyce | MSVS shows it in the open dialog |
| 13:40.15 | hippieindamakin8 | brlcad, when we discussed the thing that we take care of the changes in topology, but the matter is that with approximate calculations one very rarely hits the change in topology.For example: we are solving for the intersection and we get new set of patches. it is not in everycase that we encounter the degenerate casee |
| 13:40.30 | hippieindamakin8 | *casee/ case |
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| 13:49.09 | hippieindamakin8 | and as a matter of fact topology of each patch shall be computed according to the steps mentioned.but i am just thinking would it be absolutely necessary to have a data structure storing the changes |
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| 14:13.29 | Malyce | Checking out from, http://brlcad.svn.sourceforge.net/svnroot/brlcad/brlcad/trunk/, doesn't get the CoreInterface .cpp files ? |
| 14:14.37 | *** join/#brlcad piksi_ (i=piksi@83.145.207.200) |
| 14:21.50 | Malyce | The wiki says that, that should check out the entire brl-cad, but the CoreInterface files don't get checked out |
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| 14:44.08 | louipc | what are those? |
| 14:48.42 | Malyce | arb8.cpp, Ellipsoid.cpp etc in http://brlcad.svn.sourceforge.net/viewvc/brlcad/rt%5E3/trunk/src/coreInterface/ , I think I must have made a checkout mistake somehow. |
| 14:49.10 | Malyce | Arb8.cpp |
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| 14:56.54 | louipc | you have to checkout the rt^3 tree then |
| 14:57.33 | louipc | http://brlcad.svn.sourceforge.net/viewvc/brlcad/rt^3/trunk/ |
| 14:57.48 | Malyce | I was thinking that. The wiki specifically says though that brlcad/brlcad gives you everything |
| 14:58.47 | louipc | hmm what page is that? |
| 14:59.12 | Malyce | https://brlcad.svn.sourceforge.net/svnroot/brlcad/rt^3/trunk, actually |
| 14:59.19 | Malyce | http://brlcad.org/wiki/SVN |
| 14:59.39 | louipc | right |
| 15:00.31 | louipc | I guess rt^3 is not considered part of the BRL-CAD suite |
| 15:01.48 | Malyce | could be. I will know, once the co is done |
| 15:02.01 | louipc | it's not shipped with tarballs |
| 15:02.36 | louipc | it's a separate interface |
| 15:04.24 | mafm | rt3 is experimental stuff, it's not in the main repository :) |
| 15:07.02 | Malyce | mafm: the Install file says that support is not very strong for sys outside Linux |
| 15:07.20 | Malyce | I wanted to work on only the CoreInterface files |
| 15:07.35 | Malyce | Any way to make this easier ? |
| 15:09.40 | d_rossberg | Malyce: which programming environment are you most familar with? |
| 15:10.59 | Malyce | C/C++ on Unix systems. I just haven't much experience in building large projects though. |
| 15:11.46 | d_rossberg | which tools do you use un the Unix systems? (command line, eclipse, ...) |
| 15:11.54 | Malyce | command line |
| 15:12.33 | d_rossberg | and which editor (vi, nedite, kate, ...) |
| 15:12.43 | Malyce | usually nedit |
| 15:12.45 | louipc | hehe |
| 15:13.19 | d_rossberg | ok, did you ever wrote a makefile? |
| 15:13.45 | Malyce | I had to once. I usually just read them and hope they work |
| 15:14.12 | Malyce | but, its not too hard |
| 15:15.08 | d_rossberg | therefore, you are able to write a simple makefile which includes some libraries |
| 15:15.11 | Malyce | Are you suggesting that I manually compile the CoreInterface ? |
| 15:15.28 | d_rossberg | Malyce: at this stage: yes |
| 15:15.46 | Malyce | allright. actually that would be a relief, if its possible. |
| 15:16.34 | d_rossberg | you should first buld the brlcad distribution |
| 15:16.44 | Malyce | I am still struggling with that |
| 15:16.58 | d_rossberg | this will give you the libraries you need for the core interface |
| 15:17.03 | louipc | blame ubuntu :D |
| 15:17.08 | Malyce | also, svn keeps resetting my connection after around 30 minutes of checking out |
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| 15:17.40 | d_rossberg | i'm working with ubuntu right now, no problem |
| 15:17.49 | Malyce | $ svn checkout http://brlcad.svn.sourceforge.net/svnroot/brlcad/rt^3/trunk brlc |
| 15:17.49 | Malyce | ad-sf-rt3 |
| 15:19.09 | d_rossberg | something like this |
| 15:19.26 | Malyce | what am I doing wrong ? |
| 15:21.00 | mafm | Malyce: aren't you working in linux? what's the problem if the support is not good for other systems then? :) |
| 15:21.37 | mafm | and the reset problem might be something wrong with the router or something, it shouldn't be a problem of software |
| 15:21.56 | Malyce | I have been trying to build BRL-CAD on Ubuntu(netbook), Cygwin, Visual Studio 2008 so far |
| 15:22.10 | Malyce | for rt^3, that will narrow my options down to Ubuntu |
| 15:22.46 | d_rossberg | Malyce, your commandline should be ok, it worked for me |
| 15:22.46 | Malyce | Tortoise SVN in Win XP manages to do the checkout completely, but not svn from inside cygwin |
| 15:22.49 | mafm | you can use "svn checkout --depth=immediates" |
| 15:23.36 | mafm | or -N for non-recursive, and adding excplicitly the directories that you care about |
| 15:23.44 | d_rossberg | there are graphical frontends for svn on linux too |
| 15:24.04 | Malyce | svn: Shallowing of working copy depths is not yet supported |
| 15:24.05 | mafm | you won't need whole OGRE 3D engine that it's inside src/other for example, if you only want to work in CoreInterface |
| 15:25.08 | mafm | so you can checkout http://brlcad.svn.sourceforge.net/viewvc/brlcad/rt%5E3/trunk/src/coreInterface/ only :) |
| 15:25.29 | Malyce | just did |
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| 15:26.41 | mafm | good :) |
| 15:28.29 | Malyce | Yessss |
| 15:30.06 | Malyce | also, co this http://brlcad.svn.sourceforge.net/viewvc/brlcad/rt%5E3/trunk/include/brlcad/ |
| 15:30.09 | Malyce | for the headers |
| 15:30.54 | Malyce | d_rossberg: I think that is all |
| 15:30.55 | Malyce | ? |
| 15:32.27 | Malyce | I will try building BRL-CAD on Ubuntu on a standard laptop instead of a netbook and see if that is better |
| 15:32.34 | d_rossberg | you may put http://brlcad.svn.sourceforge.net/viewvc/brlcad into your webbrowser to see what is left, but these two branches are what i'm using |
| 15:33.18 | Malyce | It is not possible, I suppose for me to copy the main libraries without building BRL-CAD ? |
| 15:33.55 | Malyce | I will only need librt |
| 15:34.04 | d_rossberg | the hardware itself should not make a difference but the Ubuntu distribution you are using |
| 15:35.07 | Malyce | 9.04 on both machines |
| 15:37.42 | d_rossberg | you need to be able to build BRL-CAD by yourself because sometimes there are changes on the core libraries neccessary |
| 15:39.33 | ``Erik | moo |
| 15:40.38 | d_rossberg | the number of the distribution may not say all, your autoconf and libtool versions are different from mine (for example) |
| 15:40.39 | louipc | yeah a netbook is a bit of an awkward development platform eh? |
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| 17:02.22 | CIA-40 | BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r34183 10/brlcad/trunk/src/ (27 files in 6 dirs): Modified Archer to use the ttk widgets. |
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| 17:51.22 | ``Erik | *burp* |
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| 19:03.48 | pacman87 | any news on the prelim slot count? |
| 19:06.22 | brlcad | not till thursday |
| 19:07.02 | pacman87 | update the channel topic? |
| 19:10.32 | brlcad | ahh, yeah |
| 19:10.41 | brlcad | she originally said "thursday the 7th" |
| 19:12.22 | brlcad | BRL-CAD Open Source Solid Modeling || http://brlcad.org || http://sf.net/projects/brlcad || Release 7.14.6 posted (20090403) || GSoC2009 Next Step: applications have been reviewed, respond to comments, preliminary slot count on 9th, selections announced on the 20th |
| 19:12.36 | brlcad | we'll know by the 15th, but we're not supposed to tell you until the 20th :) |
| 19:12.50 | pacman87 | ok, thanks |
| 19:13.04 | brlcad | kinda cruel and unusual if you ask me |
| 19:14.06 | brlcad | thinks someone should write up a comparison of http://trepan.bzflag.bz/vectors.h to our vmath.h for something number-intensive |
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| 20:19.49 | Malyce | (Ubuntu) ./configure died with: error: c compiler cannot create executables |
| 20:19.49 | Malyce | Solutions on google said to install libc6 libc6-dev gcc g++ build-essential, all of which I have latest version |
| 20:19.51 | Malyce | http://bzflag.pastebin.ca/1385248 |
| 20:20.07 | Malyce | config.log |
| 20:21.37 | ``Erik | for some reason, your configure is putting newlines in the version string, it shouldn't be doing that :/ something is probably messed up/incompatible with your autotools |
| 20:22.34 | ``Erik | early on in your configure, you should have a line like PACKAGE_VERSION='7.14.7' |
| 20:22.45 | Malyce | yes, I had to manually fix that |
| 20:23.06 | Malyce | I suppose it messed up conftest.c as well |
| 20:24.06 | brlcad | ahh, I've seen that newline issue |
| 20:24.19 | brlcad | i think it's related to the carriage returns or just that particular version of autoconf |
| 20:24.24 | brlcad | (on cyg) |
| 20:24.36 | Malyce | this is ubuntu |
| 20:24.38 | brlcad | the last user that ran into it just hard-wired the numbers into configure.ac |
| 20:25.03 | brlcad | Malyce: was the checkout done on ubuntu or on a shared volume? |
| 20:25.18 | Malyce | cygwin |
| 20:25.23 | brlcad | heh |
| 20:25.24 | Malyce | this is so messed up |
| 20:25.39 | ``Erik | #!~31 *scrolls up to where he said it'd cause problems if malyce did that* |
| 20:26.01 | brlcad | hehe, i've honestly never seen someone have this much trouble compiling the package :) |
| 20:26.15 | brlcad | lots of ways to improve I suppose :) |
| 20:26.19 | Malyce | noob, noob, noob |
| 20:26.23 | brlcad | Malyce: edit your configure.ac file |
| 20:26.30 | Malyce | so I should co again on ubuntu ? |
| 20:26.37 | brlcad | try the edit first |
| 20:26.40 | brlcad | it's quick and simple |
| 20:26.50 | brlcad | look for the four define lines near the beginning |
| 20:27.10 | Malyce | like this: define([MAJOR_VERSION], [patsubst(esyscmd([cat include/conf/MAJOR]), [ |
| 20:27.11 | Malyce | ])]) |
| 20:27.13 | brlcad | comment them out and just set them directly in VAR=value form (e.g. MAJOR_VERSION=7) |
| 20:27.53 | brlcad | makes sure that'll work |
| 20:28.19 | Malyce | you want me to set them to the actual numbers, and not the path, right ? |
| 20:28.23 | brlcad | okay, that won't work |
| 20:28.59 | brlcad | define([VAR], [#]) |
| 20:29.11 | brlcad | where # is the number from the corresponding file |
| 20:29.24 | brlcad | not all that patsubst stuff |
| 20:34.54 | Malyce | define([MAJOR_VERSION],[7]) define([MINOR_VERSION],[14]) define([PATCH_VERSION],[7]) define([CAD_VERSION],[7.14.7]) |
| 20:39.55 | Malyce | http://bzflag.pastebin.ca/1385272 |
| 20:40.00 | Malyce | It looks the same |
| 20:40.17 | brlcad | you have to run autogen.sh after editing configure.ac |
| 20:40.27 | brlcad | (always) |
| 20:40.38 | Malyce | ok |
| 20:41.27 | brlcad | for any autotools project, any time you edit a makefile* or configure* file, you should rerun the bootstrapping step, whatever that may be |
| 20:41.44 | brlcad | usually ./autogen.sh or ./buildconf or autoreconf -vis or something else they document |
| 20:49.15 | brlcad | Malyce: how'd that go? |
| 20:55.18 | Malyce | http://bzflag.pastebin.ca/1385297 |
| 20:55.24 | Malyce | two warnings, one error |
| 20:58.51 | brlcad | infig.status?! wtf is that? |
| 20:58.58 | brlcad | should be config.status |
| 20:59.26 | brlcad | if really sounds like you have a busted configuration |
| 20:59.50 | brlcad | really seems like something is wrong with your gnu autotools install |
| 21:00.48 | ``Erik | would think a) try a fresh checkout to a linux filesystem, or b) try to autoreconf a different project and see how that works |
| 21:00.52 | brlcad | you're also missing at least three other things that you'd need to install before you can build -- a lexer (lex), a parser (yacc/bison), and libXi-dev/libXi |
| 21:02.08 | Malyce | apt-get install libXi-dev |
| 21:02.14 | brlcad | I've built cleanly on debian very recently, so I really doubt the problems are some problem with the autotools, and our build system certainly hasn't changed |
| 21:02.51 | brlcad | more than likely , it's something wrong -- maybe could try reinstalling m4/perl/automake/libtool/autoconf |
| 21:03.23 | Malyce | similarly, I do 'install lex bison automake autoconf libtool' |
| 21:05.06 | Malyce | will Flex do ? |
| 21:05.15 | brlcad | yes |
| 21:05.42 | brlcad | this sounds like a pretty vanilla system |
| 21:06.52 | Malyce | so, I just installed bison flex libXi-dev. I should autoremove the rest, then install them again ? |
| 21:07.07 | brlcad | I'd suggest it, just to test |
| 21:07.17 | brlcad | something does seem quite wrong |
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| 21:21.14 | Malyce | btw, what about the floating point implementation that was not IEEE754 compliant warning ? |
| 21:21.34 | Malyce | also, same config error |
| 21:21.52 | Malyce | just finished uninstalling-installing-autogen-configure |
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| 21:25.08 | Malyce | http://bzflag.pastebin.ca/1385345 |
| 21:29.31 | hippieindamakin8 | brlcad, posted a comment on the appspot portal |
| 21:30.39 | hippieindamakin8 | is in a hurry as he has his final year engineering project presentation tommorow and all the components of mechanical system stopped working |
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| 21:39.00 | Malyce | entering- ./config.status gives me - .infig.status: error: cannot find input file: |
| 21:39.40 | Malyce | which is the same thing ./configure is telling me. |
| 21:40.14 | Malyce | so, this is a line ending issue ? |
| 21:41.12 | Malyce | yes, I resolved the problem. I checked out from svn and ran the same thing. It must have been because I had co on cygwin earlier. No autotools issue here |
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| 22:45.28 | ``Erik | autodesk and softworks offering free demos? O.O |
| 22:54.42 | *** join/#brlcad Malyce (n=iamtanma@wlanaccess-ext.jacobs-university.de) |
| 23:08.41 | *** join/#brlcad BigAToo (n=BigAToo@pool-96-230-124-155.sbndin.btas.verizon.net) |
| 23:31.34 | brlcad | Malyce: glad to hear the problem is solved! so do you have a build? |
| 23:34.20 | *** join/#brlcad Malyce2 (n=iamtanma@deimos.jacobs-university.de) |
| 23:40.38 | Malyce2 | yes sir |
| 23:40.44 | Malyce2 | its all up and running |
| 23:40.52 | Malyce2 | ran the benchmarks and the install |
| 23:40.53 | ``Erik | huzzah |
| 23:42.00 | Malyce2 | I am installing Ubuntu on my own machine right now. I will transfer the files and run the benchmark again to check. Is that ok ? |
| 23:44.19 | ``Erik | if the new box has the same arch, os and packages, should be |
| 23:44.36 | ``Erik | erm, and the source is in the same path |
| 23:44.53 | ``Erik | like, if it was /usr/home/joeblow on the old machine and /home/malyce on the new one, that'd probably fail |
| 23:45.12 | Malyce2 | I think I'll play it safe, and rerun from autogen |
| 23:48.27 | *** join/#brlcad madant_ (n=madant@117.196.131.130) |
| 23:54.19 | yukonbob | waves to teh cadheads |