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| 00:07.10 | *** part/#brlcad jdoliner (n=jdoliner@c-68-51-76-57.hsd1.il.comcast.net) |
| 00:23.43 | CIA-40 | BRL-CAD: 03216.171.189.59 07http://brlcad.org * r1320 10/wiki/Google_Summer_of_Code/Project_Ideas: /* Aqua MGED on Mac OS X */ fix external link syntax |
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| 01:20.07 | yukonbob | http://pastebin.ca/1378510 |
| 01:20.14 | yukonbob | ^--- another build issue |
| 01:20.22 | yukonbob | (hello, cadheads |
| 01:20.23 | yukonbob | ) |
| 01:21.03 | Ralith | looks like you're not linking to libstdc++ |
| 01:21.11 | Ralith | but isn't librt all C? |
| 01:21.35 | yukonbob | Ralith: re: all C -- no idea. |
| 01:22.25 | yukonbob | re: libstdc++ agreed... (/me not a C++ person)...so I'm only one experiencing this, I guess... |
| 01:22.39 | Ralith | what're you trying to do? |
| 01:22.52 | yukonbob | just ./autogen.sh, configure ,make |
| 01:23.11 | yukonbob | is SVN co |
| 01:23.31 | yukonbob | 34122, fwiw |
| 02:01.47 | mafm | night |
| 02:13.33 | *** join/#brlcad Ralith (n=ralith@216.162.199.202) |
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| 03:26.10 | brlcad | Ralith: librt's api is all C, but some of the implementation details involve a C++ library (openNURBS) |
| 03:26.25 | brlcad | so you end up needing libc++ |
| 03:26.27 | Ralith | ah, right |
| 03:26.42 | Ralith | what was wrong with yukonbob's setup? |
| 03:29.02 | brlcad | the test for libc++ probably failed |
| 03:29.30 | brlcad | it's trying to link the 'comb' program there |
| 03:29.42 | brlcad | comb only uses librt.la and it's dependent RT_LIBS |
| 03:29.53 | brlcad | RT_LIBS="${BN} ${BN_LIBS} ${BU} ${BU_LIBS} ${REGEX} ${LIBM} ${SYSV} ${OPENNURBS}" |
| 03:30.10 | brlcad | OPENNURBS='${top_builddir}/src/other/openNURBS/libopenNURBS.la ${LIBSTDCXX}' |
| 03:30.42 | brlcad | so my guess is he actually doesn't have a libstdc++ |
| 03:31.16 | brlcad | configure should probably warn very verbosely if that happens, just pretty rare |
| 03:31.32 | brlcad | but it's also rather compiler-dependent |
| 03:34.26 | Ralith | I can't imagine a system not having libstdc++ O.o |
| 03:35.36 | brlcad | note to students that haven't posted their app yet, you're supposed to submit what you have, whatever you have ASAP so they can get a headcount |
| 03:36.39 | pacman87 | takes note |
| 03:42.14 | Ralith | which they is this? |
| 03:42.16 | Ralith | google? |
| 03:42.23 | brlcad | yes |
| 03:42.40 | brlcad | they're trying to decide whether to extend the deadline or not |
| 03:42.44 | Ralith | ah. |
| 03:42.53 | brlcad | which I suppose should mean don't submit it if you want them to extend it :) |
| 03:43.01 | Ralith | heh |
| 03:43.09 | pacman87 | does BRL-CAD have a generalized nth order equation solver? |
| 03:43.42 | brlcad | pacman87: generalized, but the maximum n is compile-time limited |
| 03:44.02 | brlcad | not sure how stable it is at higher orders |
| 03:44.31 | pacman87 | ah. i was trying to see how to gracefully degrade for higher-order splines that didn't have analytical solutions |
| 03:45.29 | brlcad | rt_poly_roots() |
| 03:45.38 | brlcad | see src/util/roots_example.c |
| 03:47.12 | brlcad | ran a performance analysis last year and was shocked to find that we outperform almost everyone, just a couple obscure solvers that came within 10% |
| 03:48.13 | pacman87 | my revolve approach collapses the 3d intersection to 2d by converting the ray line into a hyperbola |
| 03:48.23 | pacman87 | so i'd intersect the spline with a hyperbola |
| 03:48.31 | yukonbob | waves to pacman87 |
| 03:48.36 | yukonbob | waves to brlcad |
| 03:48.37 | pacman87 | waves back |
| 03:48.54 | yukonbob | waves to anybody within raytracing distance |
| 03:49.19 | pacman87 | activates a cloak and returns zero-length hit segments :P |
| 03:49.27 | brlcad | given raytracing uses infinite rays, wouldn't that be everyone? :) |
| 03:49.43 | yukonbob | they could be obscured, I was thinking. |
| 03:50.05 | yukonbob | should know better than to bastardize tech. with a bunch of ubernerds |
| 03:50.26 | yukonbob | rays are bounded by #brlcad |
| 03:50.27 | yukonbob | ;) |
| 03:50.43 | brlcad | plus we're one of the few raytracers that be default evaluates all points on the ray, not just first hit like most |
| 03:51.04 | brlcad | for analysis and solid modeling purposes ;) |
| 03:51.13 | yukonbob | go figure! |
| 03:51.56 | yukonbob | reads scrollback to see if other comments on latest pastebin... |
| 03:52.18 | yukonbob | sees comments |
| 03:52.47 | brlcad | pacman87: what kind of spline? |
| 03:53.10 | pacman87 | the 2-d spline from the sketch primitive |
| 03:55.08 | yukonbob | /usr/lib/libstdc++.a |
| 03:55.09 | yukonbob | /usr/lib/libstdc++.so |
| 03:55.09 | yukonbob | /usr/lib/libstdc++.so.6 |
| 03:55.09 | yukonbob | /usr/lib/libstdc++.so.6.0 |
| 03:55.09 | yukonbob | /usr/lib/libstdc++_p.a |
| 03:55.11 | yukonbob | /usr/lib/libstdc++_pic.a |
| 03:55.19 | yukonbob | ^-- from "locate" |
| 03:55.54 | yukonbob | is there such a think as libc++? |
| 03:56.40 | *** join/#brlcad schwinn434 (n=schwinn4@75.81.198.192) |
| 04:00.27 | *** join/#brlcad AlexandreGuedes (n=chatzill@189-92-143-241.3g.claro.net.br) |
| 04:00.29 | brlcad | yukonbob: no, those are it |
| 04:00.41 | brlcad | so what did configure report for the libstdc++ test? |
| 04:00.49 | brlcad | it's int he config.log and/or in your configure output |
| 04:02.04 | brlcad | pacman87: no, I mean what order and type |
| 04:02.16 | AlexandreGuedes | Hello |
| 04:02.19 | brlcad | b-spline? nurbs curve, bezier? |
| 04:02.37 | brlcad | nth order, limited to 4th order? |
| 04:02.43 | brlcad | howdy AlexandreGuedes |
| 04:04.20 | *** join/#brlcad AlexandreGuedes_ (n=chatzill@189-92-142-217.3g.claro.net.br) |
| 04:05.11 | AlexandreGuedes_ | brlcad: I would like to know if develop importers and exporters would be important |
| 04:05.30 | brlcad | AlexandreGuedes_: importers and exporters are always cool to have |
| 04:05.36 | yukonbob | brlcad: will rebuild and check. |
| 04:05.49 | brlcad | especially if it's a format you're pretty familiar with |
| 04:06.08 | brlcad | or if it's just a really important importer that we don't have or need improved |
| 04:06.31 | pacman87 | brlcad: since the hyperbola of the converted ray is second order, i had started last year with a limit of 2nd order splines |
| 04:06.50 | AlexandreGuedes_ | I already developed some importers for opengl |
| 04:07.53 | brlcad | pacman87: it's perhaps worth noting that there are specific spline solvers within the code as well (though not in as pretty polynomial form) |
| 04:08.10 | brlcad | but 2nd order should be perfectly fine for the general solver |
| 04:08.20 | Ralith | AlexandreGuedes_: what formats might you work with? |
| 04:08.23 | AlexandreGuedes_ | brlcad: My it doubts was if that is really important |
| 04:08.34 | AlexandreGuedes_ | obj and vrml |
| 04:08.42 | Ralith | pretty sure we already have vrml |
| 04:09.23 | AlexandreGuedes_ | but i can develop othres |
| 04:09.27 | brlcad | AlexandreGuedes_: those are two pretty popular formats, would be very useful to have .. would have to have a plan for what would happen if you finish early though |
| 04:09.28 | AlexandreGuedes_ | others |
| 04:09.56 | brlcad | Ralith: there are exporters for both of those but neither has an importer |
| 04:09.59 | Ralith | ahh. |
| 04:10.11 | brlcad | surprisingly enough .. the importer is actually even easier |
| 04:10.18 | AlexandreGuedes_ | I could develop how many I get |
| 04:11.06 | AlexandreGuedes_ | after i can get Global illumination renderer |
| 04:11.16 | AlexandreGuedes_ | if i have tiem |
| 04:11.20 | brlcad | I'd expect those two importers would really only take a week or so each actually, maybe even just a few days each .. depends on how extensive you get into the obj format |
| 04:11.23 | AlexandreGuedes_ | time* |
| 04:12.03 | brlcad | their exporters are more involved |
| 04:12.13 | brlcad | mm.. global illum would be awesome |
| 04:12.16 | AlexandreGuedes_ | hmmm |
| 04:12.29 | brlcad | AlexandreGuedes_: have you worked on global illumination and rendering before? |
| 04:13.45 | brlcad | AlexandreGuedes_: I would suggest if you can make the time, to submit two applications just so you have a better chance of getting selected on your abilities more than the priority of what it is you're proposing to work on |
| 04:13.50 | AlexandreGuedes_ | little |
| 04:14.41 | brlcad | but yeah, those sound like great areas to be proposed |
| 04:14.44 | brlcad | either or both |
| 04:14.49 | AlexandreGuedes_ | i like use openGL and C there is other intersting idea ? |
| 04:15.01 | brlcad | wouldn't mixt the global illum on the same proposal though |
| 04:15.44 | AlexandreGuedes_ | ok. |
| 04:16.14 | brlcad | there's an entire opengl GUI project, but that will likely be pretty competitive |
| 04:16.41 | brlcad | you could always propose your own project as well |
| 04:18.01 | Ralith | there's that -> OpenGL/C interactive program exporter |
| 04:18.10 | Ralith | that'd be pretty cool |
| 04:18.28 | AlexandreGuedes_ | how interactive ?? |
| 04:18.50 | brlcad | Ralith: oh you mean on the orange ideas page? |
| 04:18.53 | Ralith | yeah |
| 04:19.00 | brlcad | right |
| 04:19.05 | brlcad | AlexandreGuedes_: it's another exporter idea |
| 04:19.08 | brlcad | see, http://brlcad.org/~sean/ideas.html |
| 04:19.15 | Ralith | AlexandreGuedes_: free camera movement/zoom would probably cover it fine. |
| 04:19.24 | Ralith | along with some way to select what region(s) to show |
| 04:19.46 | brlcad | having an exporter/importer that dumps out opengl code (display lists, direct mode calls, retained mode, etc) |
| 04:19.57 | Ralith | oh, that kind of thing! |
| 04:20.00 | Ralith | that works too. |
| 04:20.18 | Ralith | of course, you'd have to tesselate everything first and I'm not sure how easy that is w/o the brep stuff finished yet. |
| 04:20.38 | AlexandreGuedes_ | i can figure out |
| 04:20.56 | brlcad | Ralith: not necessarily |
| 04:21.01 | Ralith | oh? |
| 04:21.04 | brlcad | glu has some primitives |
| 04:21.19 | brlcad | has nurbs surfaces, for example |
| 04:21.26 | Ralith | yeah, but you can't subtract/intersect them, can you? |
| 04:21.27 | brlcad | and various quadrics |
| 04:22.12 | Ralith | I guess you could just tesselate the regions that involved subtraction/intersection, or even just the relevant sets of primitives |
| 04:22.14 | brlcad | no, you'd still have to have evaluated CSG, just wouldn't necessarily need to tessellate or sample |
| 04:22.49 | Ralith | er, how do you manage, then? |
| 04:23.07 | brlcad | AlexandreGuedes_: I like the idea for converters, do apply :) |
| 04:23.22 | AlexandreGuedes_ | hum.. |
| 04:23.24 | brlcad | but do plan/mention for more than those two |
| 04:23.44 | AlexandreGuedes_ | i'll offer something |
| 04:23.50 | brlcad | and them maybe a non-converter backup in an area that interests you |
| 04:24.00 | brlcad | cool |
| 04:24.22 | AlexandreGuedes_ | <PROTECTED> |
| 04:24.35 | AlexandreGuedes_ | if i have* |
| 04:25.27 | pacman87 | AlexandreGuedes_: submit it early and get feedback - you can update it until the deadline |
| 04:25.47 | pacman87 | should follow that advice, too |
| 04:26.04 | brlcad | AlexandreGuedes_: absolutely, and what pacman87 said :) |
| 04:26.33 | Ralith | oh yeah that reminds me |
| 04:26.40 | AlexandreGuedes_ | thanks a lot |
| 04:26.48 | Ralith | I'm going to be on a bit less (not completely gone, though) until monday |
| 04:27.05 | AlexandreGuedes_ | last question... There is already much submissions ? |
| 04:27.46 | AlexandreGuedes_ | many submissions *** |
| 04:27.51 | brlcad | and for anyone that's wondering/working/waiting, don't let not having a patch stop you from submitting your proposal -- there's time after the deadline |
| 04:28.07 | brlcad | AlexandreGuedes_: no, submissions are way down this year .. so you're chances are pretty good |
| 04:28.49 | brlcad | also, the more detail in your proposal, the better .. that's the biggest problem with most proposals |
| 04:28.54 | brlcad | not enough detail/information |
| 04:29.12 | brlcad | say how, what, why, when, where.. ;) |
| 04:29.37 | AlexandreGuedes_ | ok no detail |
| 04:29.58 | brlcad | heh |
| 04:30.19 | AlexandreGuedes_ | where are you from ? |
| 04:30.48 | pacman87 | UT Austin |
| 04:30.48 | brlcad | Panama |
| 04:31.16 | brlcad | lives in Maryland USA |
| 04:32.05 | AlexandreGuedes_ | I'm from Brazil.. |
| 04:32.17 | brlcad | your IP is a give-away |
| 04:32.59 | AlexandreGuedes_ | my ? |
| 04:33.11 | brlcad | yeah, brazil ip/dns |
| 04:36.02 | AlexandreGuedes_ | And about most of others brl-cad developers... |
| 04:36.48 | brlcad | AlexandreGuedes_: all over -- usa, germany, portugal, india, netherlands, and spain come to mind |
| 04:37.25 | brlcad | wanders off to nap before his morning row in four hours |
| 04:37.44 | brlcad | laments |
| 04:38.11 | Ralith | a whole four hours? |
| 04:38.15 | Ralith | you're killing yourself, you know. |
| 04:38.48 | pacman87 | brlcad doesn't need sleep, he just takes naps every few days |
| 04:38.49 | brlcad | I know, saddens the soul |
| 04:40.02 | brlcad | need some rest before the really hard workout though.. or it can be a painful row |
| 04:40.03 | brlcad | waves |
| 04:41.54 | AlexandreGuedes_ | April Fool's Day |
| 04:42.32 | AlexandreGuedes_ | In Brazil is already |
| 04:43.58 | AlexandreGuedes_ | there is april fool's day in USA ? |
| 04:44.21 | pacman87 | yes |
| 04:44.56 | starseeker | laments the "All news sites will be annoying for a day" day |
| 04:45.33 | starseeker | although it is morbidly amusing to see slashdot's standards for news actually drop - hard to believe it's possible :-P |
| 04:50.31 | Ralith | slashdot? Lower its standards? |
| 04:50.33 | Ralith | Madness! |
| 05:11.00 | yukonbob | checking whether the Standard C++ library is available... no |
| 05:11.10 | yukonbob | ^---... but no "loud complaints" |
| 05:33.59 | Ralith | weird. |
| 06:02.03 | yukonbob | will review tmorrow |
| 06:02.11 | yukonbob | for now, zeeeeeeeeeee |
| 06:02.40 | pacman87 | goodnight |
| 06:02.53 | pacman87 | still has 200 pages of gov to read for the test thurs |
| 06:12.00 | AlexandreGuedes_ | good night |
| 07:13.53 | *** join/#brlcad _sushi_ (n=_sushi_@84-72-93-63.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
| 08:06.35 | *** join/#brlcad d_rossberg (n=rossberg@bz.bzflag.bz) |
| 08:25.41 | *** join/#brlcad _sushi__ (n=_sushi_@84-72-93-63.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
| 08:42.33 | brlcad | yawns |
| 08:48.39 | *** join/#brlcad _sushi_ (n=_sushi_@84-72-93-63.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
| 09:10.53 | *** join/#brlcad Ralith (n=ralith@216.162.199.202) |
| 09:56.51 | *** join/#brlcad mafm (n=mafm@223.Red-83-49-86.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net) |
| 10:01.41 | mafm | hi pplz |
| 10:02.24 | brlcad | howdy mafm |
| 10:03.46 | mafm | mmm, it's too early, go back to bed brlcad! |
| 10:03.48 | mafm | :P |
| 10:03.53 | brlcad | heh |
| 10:07.53 | Ralith | hey mafm |
| 10:07.56 | Ralith | brlcad doesn't have a bed |
| 10:08.01 | Ralith | he just slumps over on his desk now and then |
| 10:09.12 | brlcad | back in my younger days, I could just lay down right on the floor, however hard/cold, wherever I was at and have a perfectly good couple-hour nap |
| 10:09.45 | mafm | oh, I see... so that's the backspace key stamped in his forehead... :) |
| 10:11.06 | mafm | hmm, so the number of proposals for gsoc is that low, really? |
| 10:11.20 | mafm | (I mean in general, not only in brl-cad) |
| 10:11.28 | Ralith | shh, don't tell anyone |
| 10:11.31 | Ralith | I like my good odds :] |
| 10:11.34 | brlcad | :) |
| 10:11.44 | _sushi_ | brlcad: what do you call younger days? |
| 10:11.47 | hippieindamakin8 | mafm, many like me are still working on them :) |
| 10:11.54 | hippieindamakin8 | _many_ |
| 10:12.18 | Ralith | many? |
| 10:12.52 | brlcad | _sushi_: days before today |
| 10:13.01 | _sushi_ | I turned 30 recently |
| 10:13.05 | _sushi_ | I feel like middle aged |
| 10:13.07 | Ralith | hippieindamakin8: whatchya planning on applying for? |
| 10:13.10 | _sushi_ | I am already training the coffin jump |
| 10:13.25 | mafm | hippieindamakin8: well, deadline is in a couple of days :) |
| 10:13.47 | _sushi_ | I didn't manage to get a relationship before 30 |
| 10:14.02 | _sushi_ | But with a lot of hard work I at least managed to get sex before 30! Wohoo! I made it! |
| 10:14.02 | Ralith | aw. |
| 10:14.06 | Ralith | hehe |
| 10:14.14 | hippieindamakin8 | Ralith, mafm i am applying for the brep evaluation |
| 10:14.18 | _sushi_ | Lot of brute force sifting through the population helped |
| 10:14.19 | Ralith | oo, cool! |
| 10:14.23 | Ralith | best of luck to you! |
| 10:14.26 | Ralith | that stuff needs doing. |
| 10:14.37 | _sushi_ | brlcad: how old are you now? |
| 10:14.47 | mafm | _sushi_: congrats! |
| 10:14.50 | _sushi_ | brlcad: do you have kidneys like bricks now from sleeping on cold floor? |
| 10:14.51 | _sushi_ | mafm: thanks |
| 10:15.06 | hippieindamakin8 | Ralith, i am going through some research papers. Busy schedule at school is making it really difficult for me to concentrate here :( |
| 10:15.08 | brlcad | nope |
| 10:15.30 | Ralith | hippieindamakin8: just don't hestitate to submit a draft app early. |
| 10:15.36 | Ralith | you can always revise. |
| 10:15.41 | hippieindamakin8 | Ralith, sure :) |
| 10:15.54 | brlcad | mostly just back pain from having too much bad posture, accumulated over time -- only reason floor-sleeping isn't so satisfying now |
| 10:16.23 | Ralith | I can only floorsleep and such when I'm really short on rest |
| 10:16.27 | Ralith | and I'm pretty young |
| 10:17.04 | brlcad | congratulates _sushi_ for getting his cherry popped before 30. heh. |
| 10:17.07 | Ralith | guess that comes from having a bed right next to my workstation |
| 10:17.14 | _sushi_ | lol |
| 10:17.24 | _sushi_ | I am sure there are nerds who get even worse rate than 30 years |
| 10:17.33 | mafm | brlcad: odd, I have a hairdresser friend who lies in the floor after work, her backache is relieved |
| 10:17.36 | Ralith | did RMS ever get laid? |
| 10:18.09 | _sushi_ | RMS might profit from a gym |
| 10:18.13 | brlcad | mafm: hopefully not at the office.. lot of hair on the floor :) |
| 10:18.34 | mafm | Ralith: he did AFAIK, at least he had a mexican girlfriend a while ago (that's why he learned spanish) |
| 10:18.50 | _sushi_ | oh |
| 10:18.55 | _sushi_ | I hope he didn't manage that before 30 |
| 10:19.00 | _sushi_ | because then I would feel really asocial |
| 10:19.03 | Ralith | lol |
| 10:19.06 | _sushi_ | Girlfriend! |
| 10:19.11 | _sushi_ | I didn't even get into that level. |
| 10:19.14 | _sushi_ | What's the cheat code? |
| 10:19.28 | mafm | brlcad: I guess that he does it privately, but I'm not so intimate friend as to ask some of the related questions :) |
| 10:19.28 | _sushi_ | iddbf? |
| 10:19.52 | mafm | well, stallman must be in his fifties or older now |
| 10:19.57 | _sushi_ | OK good |
| 10:20.06 | _sushi_ | there are still people who are more asocial than me |
| 10:20.07 | Ralith | considering he was in college in the 80s, right? |
| 10:20.22 | brlcad | he's 56 |
| 10:20.25 | mafm | he was already at mit ai lab in the late 70s I think |
| 10:20.34 | Ralith | oh, right |
| 10:20.49 | hippieindamakin8 | => RMS might have been a hippie too :P |
| 10:20.56 | Ralith | I'm always disconcerted when I hear about AI research that long ago |
| 10:21.06 | Ralith | I generally think of computer research as stuff that gets worked out pretty quick |
| 10:21.31 | _sushi_ | hippieindamakin8: I guess he still looks like one |
| 10:21.42 | mafm | Linus met his wife teaching inet to non-it ppl at univ, telling her to write him email for practicing (nice trick, that) |
| 10:21.47 | brlcad | Ralith: it often is .. then there are research papers for three decades afterwards that all claim to have done it again for the first time ;) |
| 10:22.03 | Ralith | lol |
| 10:22.15 | Ralith | reminds me of something I've noticed |
| 10:22.49 | Ralith | having toyed with graphics programming some, I've noticed that it usually takes 5+ years for something somebody successfully demonstrated in a thesis to actually be implemented in a commercial game |
| 10:22.53 | mafm | most of the work in mit ai lab by that time was to create OSs and lisp machines, I think :) |
| 10:23.14 | brlcad | much of it is solved, but limited by cpu power .. so as the chips get faster, old ideas that were completely impractical become entirely practical and implementable |
| 10:24.49 | brlcad | Ralith: that's about the general trend I often see too, similar to how the emerging technology that is showcased at siggraph .. often becomes commercial commonplace about 3-6 years after if it's a hot topic |
| 10:25.07 | mafm | IIRC (from Free as in Freedom book and similar resources), Stallman stallet to get mad at software practices when ppl took stuff out of mit to implement LISP machines commercially |
| 10:25.49 | mafm | he started to copy and reimplement the new features like crazy so that mit versions were equally capable as commercial versions |
| 10:25.54 | hippieindamakin8 | Ralith, but rt now with the GPUs in the market, the implementation would be smooth |
| 10:26.01 | brlcad | like seeing epaper five years ago at siggraph, and this past year seeing it become reality with amazon's kindle in 2007 |
| 10:26.05 | Ralith | brlcad: that seems really long, even considering the devtime of a big project |
| 10:26.07 | hippieindamakin8 | rather awesome GPUs |
| 10:26.15 | Ralith | hippieindamakin8: I dunno about this whole raytracing thing. |
| 10:26.50 | Ralith | it amounts to using slower techniques for less appealing visuals |
| 10:26.54 | _sushi_ | self-pities |
| 10:27.13 | mafm | saw the same in grid technologies... in example cloud computing, already present in some congresses years ago, like the Amazon guy |
| 10:28.27 | Ralith | cloud computing is just silly. |
| 10:28.29 | brlcad | Ralith: the technique becomes faster than the raster approaches as soon as you turn "all" the features on |
| 10:28.30 | hippieindamakin8 | Ralith, doesnt that imply that faster computation = better visuals |
| 10:28.34 | Ralith | I, for one, will not give up control over my system. |
| 10:28.46 | Ralith | hippieindamakin8: but we already *have* great visuals., |
| 10:28.51 | Ralith | no reason to sacrifice them. |
| 10:29.15 | brlcad | that is, to get the same picture, all the hacks and hoops you end up needing disappear with a much more simple algorithm |
| 10:29.50 | mafm | Ralith: it's more practical for startups demanding big storage or processing growing by the hour, think of flick-like sites when starting |
| 10:29.51 | Ralith | brlcad: for practical purposes, though, it's still much slower. |
| 10:29.59 | Ralith | eventually, when power is moot, sure |
| 10:30.01 | brlcad | for current purposes |
| 10:30.02 | Ralith | not now. |
| 10:30.22 | Ralith | mafm: for hosting a website or something, sure |
| 10:30.32 | brlcad | the only reason it's even being talked about is because at the high end of the spectrum, it's starting to get close |
| 10:30.33 | mafm | flickr, or whatever the spelling :) |
| 10:30.56 | brlcad | the cost of a superbly complex raster system with great visuals, something like the complexity of the crysis engine |
| 10:31.14 | brlcad | starts approaching the cost of advanced ray-tracing that gives equivalent results |
| 10:31.24 | mafm | they're trying to lure scientists to use clouds too... but transferring multi-GB datasets back and forth for processing for a few hours it's not very nice :D |
| 10:32.00 | mafm | but the personal computing, a la windows7, I think that it's a bit of non-sense right now (and I also don't like where all of this is heading) |
| 10:32.24 | Ralith | I wouldn't be too concerned; MS certainly won't keep its marketshare forever. |
| 10:32.51 | Ralith | and so far nobody's tried hardware lockin to a particular system, beyond the issues of driver support which are lessening these days. |
| 10:34.19 | brlcad | Ralith: speaking of seeing things in research that deploy 5 or so years later -- that's been the raging research competition between the powerhouses, the likes of Intel and NVIDIA, and all the chest thumping about who can do ray-tracing better/faster |
| 10:34.34 | brlcad | because it's expected that tipping point will happen within a couple years |
| 10:34.34 | Ralith | really? nVidia's getting in on that? |
| 10:34.38 | Ralith | I thought it was mostly intel |
| 10:34.56 | brlcad | oh yeah, nvidia's been right there in the research |
| 10:35.13 | Ralith | hm. |
| 10:35.22 | Ralith | well, I'll be interested to see what results |
| 10:35.26 | brlcad | had a massive session at siggraph just last year showcasing their implementation of ray-tracing on the gpu in response to intel's massive demo of larrabe |
| 10:35.40 | brlcad | it's been going back and forth |
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| 10:38.16 | hippieindamakin8 | has seen the examples of ray tracing on Nvidia CUDA machines and can say that they were beyond brilliant |
| 10:38.20 | Ralith | what interests me about larrabee is (if I understand it correctly) the freedom from API it offers. |
| 10:38.48 | Ralith | I imagine we'll see all sorts of things when people are no longer limited to what's defined in a spec like that |
| 10:39.19 | mafm | Ralith: a gsoc idea you might be interested in ;) : Amazon EC2 AMI Images and tools: create official Debian images and tools for the Amazon EC2 cloud-computing environment |
| 10:39.43 | hippieindamakin8 | Ralith, CUDA is also very good in that respect |
| 10:40.01 | Ralith | hippieindamakin8: eh, it'll be a while before nvidia's hardware is truly general-purpose-ified |
| 10:40.12 | Ralith | oh there's an idea |
| 10:40.20 | Ralith | brlcad: has anyone considered porting librt to CUDA? |
| 10:40.32 | brlcad | "porting" it? heh |
| 10:40.33 | Ralith | or bits thereof, at least? |
| 10:40.36 | hippieindamakin8 | i can consider that :) |
| 10:40.39 | Ralith | isn't sure what would be involved |
| 10:41.36 | brlcad | there's ways cuda could be leveraged -- it'd take a fair bit of structuring but could be leveraged at the primitive level fairly decently |
| 10:42.19 | Ralith | then again, I suppose librt's pretty damn fast anyway |
| 10:42.29 | Ralith | so not much need. |
| 10:42.37 | brlcad | would have to improve support for ray-bundling, and reimplement most of the complex prep() and shot() routines for most primtives to be vectorized |
| 10:43.09 | Ralith | wouldn't that much be of benefit anyway on modern CPUs? |
| 10:43.44 | mafm | btw, isn't there any plan for multi-threading? it's beeing a trend in the last few years for most projects |
| 10:44.05 | brlcad | nah, you could certainly increase the performance of even librt using it -- but you'd also get just as much benefit from working on things like ray bundling, cacheline fitted data structures, cache coherent structure access, and vectorized ray evaluation |
| 10:44.34 | Ralith | raytracing is very parallelizable, I believe. |
| 10:44.41 | brlcad | should give an increase on optical image rendering on the order of around 2x-20x if you did *everything* |
| 10:44.57 | Ralith | but I'm not really convinced that there's much point |
| 10:45.02 | brlcad | of course it's parallelizable, brl-cad's rt was the first to show that :) |
| 10:45.08 | Ralith | hehe |
| 10:45.12 | Ralith | I mean, if I can render havok in under a minute on consumer hardware |
| 10:45.16 | ``Erik | obscenely parallel, every primary could be its own thread |
| 10:45.44 | ``Erik | parallel prep would be awesome, though |
| 10:45.53 | Ralith | then again, I don't have a very good idea of what normal model complexity tends to be |
| 10:46.03 | brlcad | Ralith: it's the difference between taking 30 seconds and potentially 2 frames per second interactive |
| 10:46.12 | ``Erik | has working geometry that takes about 60 seconds to prep and 30 to raytrace :( |
| 10:46.59 | Ralith | that's a lot of prep |
| 10:47.11 | Ralith | brlcad: fair, and I suppose in not too long it'll be even closer to raeltime. |
| 10:47.20 | Ralith | realtime* |
| 10:47.45 | brlcad | it makes a lot of existing models realtime |
| 10:48.39 | brlcad | the adrt stuff that erik has been working on does much of the tricks for polygonal models, gets a decent performance boost that allows for realtime raytraced interaction |
| 10:48.43 | Ralith | realtime librt would be neat. |
| 10:49.05 | brlcad | http://brlcad.org/wiki/Google_Summer_of_Code/Project_Ideas#CSG_ray-trace_optimizations |
| 10:49.37 | brlcad | if all done, those would likely result in massive performance boosts, order of magnitude sorts |
| 10:49.46 | Ralith | damn. |
| 10:50.11 | brlcad | exploiting cache coherency, branch minimization, data vectorization, accelerated spacial partitioning, and other optimization techniques |
| 10:50.34 | ``Erik | os/embedded/criticalsystems geeks would argue that you mean interactive, not realtime :) |
| 10:51.11 | Ralith | :P |
| 10:51.25 | Ralith | os/embedded/criticalsystems geeks don't do much raytracing. |
| 10:51.37 | ``Erik | erm, you might be surprised |
| 10:51.45 | Ralith | hm? |
| 10:52.05 | mafm | they raytrace models of lara croft in their basements! |
| 10:52.28 | ``Erik | a lot of raytracing has nothing to do with generating images :) |
| 10:52.43 | mafm | soft realtime is ok for multi-media |
| 10:53.03 | Ralith | ``Erik: that's why I said *much* |
| 10:53.06 | Ralith | rather than any. |
| 10:53.52 | mafm | ah, they might use some of it for physics? |
| 10:55.06 | Ralith | raytracing for physics? |
| 10:55.08 | Ralith | never heard of that. |
| 10:55.15 | Ralith | for that matter, physics in realtime? |
| 10:55.30 | Ralith | (that is, technical realtime, rather than interactive) |
| 10:55.36 | mafm | I mean representations of models from data gathered by radar-like devices and such, automatic control of vehicles (mars robots) |
| 10:56.11 | mafm | I don't know if some techniques related to raytracing could be used for that |
| 10:56.15 | ``Erik | O.o so you've never heard of things like collision detection systems, combat HUDs, flight control systems, etc, ralith? |
| 10:56.34 | Ralith | ``Erik: never imagined that that sort of thing used raytracing. |
| 10:56.35 | Ralith | tmyk! |
| 10:57.06 | Ralith | thinks HUDs are awesome and should be everywhere. |
| 10:57.21 | ``Erik | I d'no the guts, I do know that there's often raytracing to do physics and ai bits in ogl and d3d games |
| 10:57.22 | Ralith | augmented reality ftw. |
| 10:57.29 | Ralith | well, that's not 'realtime' |
| 10:58.00 | ``Erik | so I coudl imagine 'real life' systems (or high end simulators) doing the same |
| 10:58.47 | Ralith | but... that's still not realtime systems, is it? |
| 11:01.07 | mafm | I can see many situations where that's useful |
| 11:01.15 | mafm | or will be exploited |
| 11:01.27 | ``Erik | *shrug* I d'no, I can imagine a fair numberof scenarios where time guarantees on raytracing could be handy |
| 11:04.01 | Ralith | I dunno if it's used like that currently, though. |
| 11:04.02 | mafm | think of rendering a scene with objects in the foreground with transparency showing objects in the background visible |
| 11:04.02 | mafm | kind of Terminator :) |
| 11:04.02 | Ralith | like I said. |
| 11:04.02 | Ralith | We need HUDs EVERYWHERE. |
| 11:04.02 | ``Erik | (and I'm a bit of an OS geek and have done simple embedded programming before, so a bit sensitive on people propogating blizzards word abuse) |
| 11:04.02 | Ralith | :D |
| 11:04.02 | ``Erik | </rant> :D |
| 11:04.25 | ``Erik | most of my personal projects right now fall into the soft realtime need, and that's just cheezy web crap |
| 11:04.26 | mafm | :D |
| 11:04.47 | mafm | hates cheezy web :( |
| 11:05.15 | ``Erik | but it's good cheese! real cheese, not processed cheese |
| 11:05.41 | Ralith | yum! |
| 11:05.44 | ``Erik | that'sa gouda cheesa! |
| 11:07.46 | mafm | lol |
| 11:07.50 | ``Erik | back to librt speed improvements, there's been discussion on replacing src/librt/primitive/bot/* with src/adrt/libtie/* stuff for the speed boost, but making libties tricks ubiquitous through librt would be awesome |
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| 11:09.27 | ``Erik | postage stamp bundling, cache coherency, improved scene partition (I'll bring up my old argument that tree based approaches have necessary slow warts, a graph with neighbor awareness (see portal/sector stuff) would be preferable) |
| 11:09.55 | ``Erik | portable vectorization with fallback for cpu's lacking simd instructions |
| 11:10.32 | ``Erik | making prep way faster would be awesome, too |
| 11:11.53 | Ralith | well, I'm heading to bed in preparation for a long flight tomorrow. |
| 11:12.09 | Ralith | I guess I'll assume the fact that I haven't gotten any proposal feedback yet a good thing? |
| 11:12.29 | brlcad | yep |
| 11:12.34 | Ralith | :) |
| 11:12.40 | ``Erik | and you can render havoc pretty fast on consumer hardware... if you're doing a low resolution and low quality rendering. |
| 11:12.52 | Ralith | true, true |
| 11:13.11 | ``Erik | try doing a poster grade render :) now try doing it with photon mapping (or mlt if someone pics it up) |
| 11:13.28 | Ralith | I'll leave that one running overnight. |
| 11:13.42 | ``Erik | poster grade with simple phong was around 24 hours an image on high end gear |
| 11:13.42 | Ralith | luckily, I don't generally need poster-grade renders to model >_> |
| 11:14.31 | ``Erik | when ya need 14 images in 2 days, ... I was scrounging machines for that :) |
| 11:15.06 | ``Erik | and I had to post-process the images because they came out a little too dark and I didn't have the time to re-render them :( |
| 11:15.20 | ``Erik | so, yeah, there's a point :) |
| 11:15.30 | mafm | "night" Ralith :D |
| 11:15.35 | Ralith | night! |
| 11:16.08 | ``Erik | have a good flight :) |
| 11:19.47 | Ralith | thanks |
| 11:26.35 | madant | brlcad: :) for user-accessibility should i think about modifications in mged or integration with libged ? |
| 11:26.59 | madant | and how woudl it fit into the new gui plan |
| 11:30.54 | madant | i feel like sticking to the capability to make a constraint object within mged sounds good |
| 11:31.43 | madant | and then a user command like solve(constr.1) or something similar |
| 11:32.20 | madant | which would evaluate , display solution space / update geometry |
| 11:33.38 | CIA-40 | BRL-CAD: 03Erik 07http://brlcad.org * r1321 10/wiki/Google_Summer_of_Code/Project_Ideas: add g_qa feature request |
| 11:37.04 | d-lo | Mornin all! |
| 11:43.41 | ``Erik | silence, maggot! |
| 11:43.44 | ``Erik | I mean, uh, hey |
| 11:44.13 | d-lo | You going on the YUMMY E39 party crash? |
| 11:44.31 | ``Erik | with what? I blew my load on slz |
| 11:44.54 | d-lo | wishes there could be asset transfers in the game :/ |
| 11:45.03 | ``Erik | heh, indeed |
| 11:45.21 | d-lo | ...would totaly ruin the game balance, but would be cool for a little while :) |
| 11:46.05 | *** join/#brlcad BigAToo (n=BigAToo@pool-96-230-124-198.sbndin.btas.verizon.net) |
| 11:46.07 | ``Erik | http://www.collegehumor.com/video:1905754 heh |
| 11:51.25 | mafm | hi d-lo |
| 11:51.41 | d-lo | howdy mafm |
| 11:52.03 | mafm | it seems that LHC finally made it: "I can confirm that, yes, the first stages of the experiment resulted in the appearance of a miniscule black hole," said the spokesperson to gathered reporters on Monday. "The black hole is being kept under quarantine and our scientists have been monitoring its progression," he explained. --http://www.thetechherald.com/article.php/200914/3354/ |
| 11:52.18 | mafm | so you were right d-lo :P |
| 11:52.57 | d-lo | ``Erik: Do you know whats up with Hellbent? Profile shows inactive 74 days... |
| 11:53.01 | mafm | I'd say, bring Ballmer to throw a few chairs at it to tame it down :) |
| 11:54.05 | d-lo | Hrm, if I had to pick... I dunno which I would go for: Obliteration via Nuclear war, or sucked into a Black Hole that started in Europe.... :/ |
| 11:54.59 | d-lo | lol: "Many had bitterly said the consequences could be as extreme as the Earth being sucked into the black hole the LHC collisions may create as a side effect of the experiment. Others claimed time travellers with more sophisticated technology than ours could make use of the hole to invade the Earth and enslave mankind." |
| 11:55.05 | d-lo | Too many scifi movies... |
| 11:58.19 | mafm | :D |
| 11:58.34 | mafm | the bad thing is that many ppl will believe this news :| |
| 11:58.54 | ``Erik | ... I hate april 1st |
| 11:59.02 | ``Erik | no, d-lo, no clue :/ |
| 11:59.23 | mafm | let's hope scientology church take it seriously and immolate themselves :P :) |
| 11:59.59 | ``Erik | no, they'd just buy a lot of DC-9's and fly to another planet with volcanos |
| 12:00.11 | ``Erik | would donate $10 to help them get to venus D: |
| 12:00.12 | ``Erik | :D |
| 12:00.48 | ``Erik | ('cept beck, he can stay) |
| 12:00.58 | mafm | would double that! |
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| 12:06.11 | Maloeran | Ahah, neat article mafm |
| 12:07.31 | d-lo | ``Erik: got any 'cyclers built yet? |
| 12:28.44 | mafm | :) |
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| 13:04.26 | d-lo | ``Erik: E37:73:06:31 |
| 13:05.52 | ``Erik | aight, putting together a maid service |
| 13:06.09 | ``Erik | might take a couple hours, I tend to be up in the northern part |
| 13:07.15 | ``Erik | 1:10 to get the 74 jg, 5 minutes to hop over to that astro |
| 13:08.55 | d-lo | yeah, I have most of your astros bookmarked so they show up on the Map ;) |
| 13:09.05 | ``Erik | pheer O.o |
| 13:09.09 | ``Erik | jotes |
| 13:09.16 | ``Erik | jots down a note... "don't piss dave off" |
| 13:10.42 | d-lo | ....hrmm... no fleet, most locations known..... hrm.... *EVIL LAUGH* |
| 13:10.58 | d-lo | =D |
| 13:11.17 | ``Erik | hm, yes, 15 prings, 15 pshields, 3-4 dn's, and a fighter cloud on each, definitely soft targets :D |
| 13:11.29 | ``Erik | no MOBILE fleet |
| 13:11.53 | d-lo | True. true. but how dangerous is a person who just doesn't care about fleet anymore? ;) |
| 13:11.54 | ``Erik | yoda is slz gm now, btw |
| 13:12.16 | d-lo | ...wha? aren't we at war with slz? |
| 13:12.33 | ``Erik | unofficially |
| 13:12.54 | d-lo | why that little green shit. lol |
| 13:12.58 | ``Erik | more of a "damnit, we're not farms, and you're warring on a madp" |
| 13:13.17 | ``Erik | unfortunately, he has intel on our strongholds :( |
| 13:13.30 | ``Erik | though I think he was like 32 or 33 |
| 13:13.58 | ``Erik | mebbe he'll get them to back off of fng *shrug* who knows |
| 13:14.36 | ``Erik | that crash eliminated over 1/3 of slzs total fleet, mostly of their higher level members, so they're not exactly a huge threat |
| 13:14.37 | d-lo | well, "personal vendettas" can be really fun ;) |
| 13:16.34 | ``Erik | ooh, you've been called out on your hit, ya didn't post br |
| 13:17.54 | d-lo | *shrug* I'll get to it ;) |
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| 13:56.45 | brlcad | madant: either really -- a libged modification is an mged modification -- it adds a new command |
| 13:57.58 | madant | was thinking whether a menu option would be nice.. but i guess a functioing command interface is a more important target :) |
| 13:58.50 | madant | needs to seriously go through libged after months of stalling |
| 14:02.51 | brlcad | libged is easy -- if you can make a simple test program with argc/argv, that converts very simply over to a libged function |
| 14:04.33 | madant | hmm.. convenient :) ( evil grin ) |
| 14:07.41 | madant | oh and brlcad, i ran a sub 6 minute mile ;) 2.1 km in 7:49 : |
| 14:07.50 | madant | :D felt like i was going to die |
| 14:09.24 | brlcad | excellent |
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| 14:30.38 | hippieindamakin8 | hey madant brlcad |
| 14:31.24 | hippieindamakin8 | madant, just went out on a jog of 2 km (in arnd 13 min) |
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| 14:56.10 | kanzure | brlcad: I'll try to send out an email in a few hours about the web repository ideas. |
| 14:56.33 | kanzure | but pre-emptive constructive criticism about better ideas would be acceptable :) |
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| 15:21.31 | brlcad | hello hippieindamakin8 |
| 15:21.51 | brlcad | kanzure: please do |
| 15:22.03 | *** join/#brlcad madant (n=madant@117.196.146.22) |
| 15:22.10 | brlcad | it'll be a rush the closer to the deadline it gets, and become harder to get good responses/reviews in the later they are |
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| 15:36.22 | andrecastelo | hi brlcad, ``Erik |
| 15:36.34 | andrecastelo | :) |
| 15:46.34 | CIA-40 | BRL-CAD: 03117.196.146.22 07http://brlcad.org * r1322 10/wiki/User:Homovulgaris: /* Abstract */ main objective changed |
| 15:48.23 | madant | hippieindamakin8, speed up ;) unless of course you were enjoying some wonderful scenery while jogging |
| 15:49.40 | hippieindamakin8 | madant, in iit kanpur's stadium .. there wont be any scenery there nor chiks :) |
| 15:50.26 | madant | haha :) ah u are from iitk .. kewl.. i hear it is a very study-oriented place :P |
| 15:50.50 | madant | u doing UG there ? which subbject ? |
| 15:50.55 | madant | s/subbject/dept. |
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| 15:55.08 | hippieindamakin8 | madant, dude yeah !that is the reason writing an app becomes difficult. majoring in mechanical engineering.(subject of interest:computational geometry) |
| 16:08.39 | CIA-40 | BRL-CAD: 03Homovulgaris 07http://brlcad.org * r1323 10/wiki/User:Homovulgaris: /* Proposal */ change of priorities |
| 16:18.16 | CIA-40 | BRL-CAD: 03Homovulgaris 07http://brlcad.org * r1324 10/wiki/User:Homovulgaris: /* Schedule */ |
| 16:19.26 | CIA-40 | BRL-CAD: 03Homovulgaris 07http://brlcad.org * r1325 10/wiki/User:Homovulgaris: /* Other Notes */ |
| 16:19.34 | madant | loves cia wiki updates ;) |
| 16:21.19 | d-lo | that you making all that IRC vomit? :) |
| 16:21.41 | madant | moi :) |
| 16:22.55 | CIA-40 | BRL-CAD: 03Homovulgaris 07http://brlcad.org * r1326 10/wiki/User:Homovulgaris: Text shifted to Notes since priorities have been changed |
| 16:24.07 | madant | hippieindamakin8, :) which year are u in ? |
| 16:25.52 | hippieindamakin8 | 4rth |
| 16:38.49 | hippieindamakin8 | starts editing the wiki <but feels that the cia updates would rather embaress him> |
| 16:41.44 | starseeker | nah, go for it - we've all been there |
| 16:44.55 | hippieindamakin8 | starseeker, :) thanks and did u find any thing better w.r.t the problem u were working on ? |
| 16:45.41 | starseeker | brlcad and I discussed it some |
| 16:46.00 | starseeker | probably want to back up and see if we really need the solution to that specific problem |
| 16:46.09 | hippieindamakin8 | :) |
| 16:47.07 | hippieindamakin8 | starseeker, once i submit my application, i shall send in a mail(read as spam) on the list with my idea of the solution |
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| 16:47.59 | starseeker | sounds good |
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| 17:34.50 | ``Erik | if you feel like it'd be embarrassing, just remember, were still too busy laughing at starseeker to bother picking on you ;) *duck* |
| 17:36.31 | d-lo | lol |
| 17:36.49 | d-lo | You can also blame any mistakes you make on the LHC. |
| 17:36.49 | ``Erik | that astro is swept, dave |
| 17:37.17 | d-lo | saw that. 5200 cyclers is hardly 'no mobile' =D |
| 17:38.08 | ``Erik | woulda figured the 17000 ft's and 240 hc's woulda gotten more attention |
| 17:40.53 | AlexandreGuedes | hi |
| 17:41.17 | AlexandreGuedes | when I'm compiling my build. |
| 17:41.30 | AlexandreGuedes | is normal a lot of warning ? |
| 17:41.46 | ``Erik | in the src/other directory, yes... shouldn't be many outside of that |
| 17:50.17 | AlexandreGuedes | i got some errors |
| 17:50.52 | AlexandreGuedes | make[2]: *** [libdm_la-color.lo] Error 1 |
| 17:51.37 | AlexandreGuedes | someone knows this error? |
| 18:00.32 | ``Erik | can you paste more of the backlog to http://pastebin.bzflag.bz/ ? (the actual error is before that line) |
| 18:07.11 | AlexandreGuedes | ok.. |
| 18:07.30 | AlexandreGuedes | http://pastebin.bzflag.bz/m6f0cdb29 |
| 18:15.13 | madant | AlexandreGuedes, error: X11/Xlib.h: No such file or directory = you don't have the required x11-dev libraries |
| 18:15.19 | madant | which platform are you on |
| 18:15.29 | AlexandreGuedes | ubuntu |
| 18:16.10 | madant | install libx11-dev |
| 18:16.30 | madant | and libxi-dev too |
| 18:16.33 | AlexandreGuedes | ok... |
| 18:18.26 | AlexandreGuedes | thanks |
| 18:18.28 | hippieindamakin8 | madant, that is for most of the debian based distro users :) |
| 18:18.41 | AlexandreGuedes | apt-get install xserver-xorg-dev |
| 18:18.54 | AlexandreGuedes | :) |
| 18:22.55 | madant | hippieindamakin8, true i remember a similar situation from a couple of days ago too IIRC |
| 18:23.19 | hippieindamakin8 | madant, i too encountered the same problem. :) |
| 18:23.42 | madant | ah.. so it was u ? :D |
| 18:23.52 | hippieindamakin8 | madant, it was me an year ago :P |
| 18:23.59 | madant | ah ok :D |
| 18:24.09 | hippieindamakin8 | loves debian and KDE |
| 18:24.48 | madant | AlexandreGuedes, I am not sure if the package name is xserver-xorg-dev for debian.. use apt-file search feature for locating the correct packages ? |
| 18:25.48 | AlexandreGuedes | hmm ok |
| 18:30.15 | hippieindamakin8 | madant, i dont think xserver-xorg-dev has libx11-dev headers |
| 18:31.34 | hippieindamakin8 | AlexandreGuedes, apt-get install xserver-xorg-dev libx11-dev libx9-dev |
| 18:32.06 | hippieindamakin8 | *libx9-dev/libxi-dev |
| 18:34.33 | AlexandreGuedes | hippieindamakin8: thanks |
| 18:34.44 | madant | does not even have xserver-xorg-dev installed :D |
| 18:35.25 | hippieindamakin8 | madant, interesting :) neways they are the development files |
| 18:35.28 | AlexandreGuedes | now think it is ok |
| 18:35.31 | hippieindamakin8 | madant, which distro ? |
| 18:35.39 | madant | debian unstable |
| 18:35.58 | hippieindamakin8 | madant, awesome |
| 18:36.43 | madant | whats awesome about it :P I like it though :D |
| 18:37.33 | hippieindamakin8 | madant, i meant i too use the same. i dont find many ppl who are using debian unstable. |
| 18:38.25 | madant | OS space is pretty huge :) |
| 18:51.41 | mafm | madant rulez! |
| 18:51.59 | mafm | and hippieindamakin8 rulez too :P |
| 18:53.00 | madant | oh and lets not forget mafm :) |
| 18:53.13 | madant | people still pester you about rand() :P |
| 18:53.15 | madant | ? |
| 18:53.46 | mafm | that question is not for me, I guess |
| 18:55.10 | madant | mafm: ah maybe i am confused.. i remember some debian fan here being pestered about int rand() { return 4; } or something similar :) |
| 18:56.26 | mafm | ahh |
| 18:56.37 | mafm | well, that part was a joke |
| 18:57.23 | mafm | but I was suffering a lot because of that yes, my workmates were fedora fascists :P |
| 18:58.02 | mafm | incidentally, one of them got fed up of fedora in his laptop (unstable, sluggish, etc) and installed debian a while after that :) |
| 18:58.08 | mafm | but I don't work there anymore |
| 18:58.34 | hippieindamakin8 | madant, mafm :P |
| 18:59.20 | madant | ah .. so my memory doesnt suck :P |
| 19:03.49 | kanzure | brlcad: ok, sent. |
| 19:26.14 | AlexandreGuedes | How I can know which are the dependeces (libs) before start the make build ? |
| 19:27.29 | hippieindamakin8 | madant, i cant find a create content tab in my profile :| on brlcad wiki |
| 19:27.36 | hippieindamakin8 | wiki and the site |
| 19:32.24 | hippieindamakin8 | madant, nvm :| |
| 19:37.19 | madant | hippieindamakin8, whats the error ? |
| 19:37.47 | madant | AlexandreGuedes, did u try building again ? got any further errors ? |
| 19:38.27 | hippieindamakin8 | wanted to put in my proposal |
| 19:38.28 | hippieindamakin8 | madant, nthing resolved it |
| 19:38.32 | AlexandreGuedes | now i'm having other error |
| 19:38.33 | madant | regarding a list of dependencies.. well there aren't many.. :) x11, xi etc. are a few .. but mostly brl-cad code is pretty self-sufficient :) |
| 19:38.45 | madant | AlexandreGuedes, paste ;) |
| 19:39.43 | AlexandreGuedes | http://pastebin.bzflag.bz/d7f7f4d2e |
| 19:40.09 | AlexandreGuedes | undefined reference to `X24_close_existing' ... |
| 19:41.17 | madant | hmm.. tclcad.. try ./configure with the --enable-all option and then make |
| 19:43.17 | AlexandreGuedes | Ok, I'm trying |
| 19:46.16 | AlexandreGuedes | Which platform is better for build brlcad? |
| 19:47.05 | mafm | debian, of course! |
| 19:47.23 | mafm | some alianated ppl might suggest freebsd or something... :P |
| 19:48.30 | hippieindamakin8 | mafm, freebsd is good too but they are incomprehensible philosophies |
| 19:48.38 | mafm | (just kidding, any supported platform should do) |
| 19:48.40 | hippieindamakin8 | *they are/they have |
| 19:48.52 | mafm | such as? |
| 19:50.34 | mafm | brlcad: it's full of spam http://pastebin.bzflag.bz/m16956c60 |
| 19:50.36 | AlexandreGuedes | madant: I had already done, but this happening the same error |
| 19:50.52 | hippieindamakin8 | mafm, i ll just get the list of them from my prof :P |
| 19:51.56 | *** join/#brlcad andrecastelo (n=andrecas@189.71.13.123) |
| 19:52.33 | AlexandreGuedes | madant: may i should cleanup ? |
| 19:53.36 | mafm | AlexandreGuedes: it seems something internal (funcions being in brlcad code, so maybe it's autoconf missing something), you might want to wait for ``Erik or brlcad to come around |
| 19:53.45 | brlcad | ~dreeves++ |
| 19:53.59 | mafm | a cleanup and --enable-all might help, though |
| 19:55.28 | AlexandreGuedes | thanks |
| 19:55.41 | AlexandreGuedes | i ll try it |
| 19:56.41 | AlexandreGuedes | got the source from sourceforge, there are difference from svn source ? |
| 19:56.49 | AlexandreGuedes | i got* |
| 19:58.19 | CIA-40 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r34129 10/brlcad/trunk/doc/README.Linux: note that ubuntu/debian folks should install xserver-org-dev libx11-dev and libxi-dev |
| 19:59.58 | brlcad | mafm, yep, the pastebin doesn't have any spam preventions .. gets hit every couple minutes |
| 20:00.04 | brlcad | feel free to fix that ;) |
| 20:00.05 | *** join/#brlcad madant_ (n=madant@117.196.128.14) |
| 20:00.34 | brlcad | AlexandreGuedes: svn sources are the very latest, source tarball is our last release |
| 20:00.52 | brlcad | for gsoc, you'll want to be using the latest svn sources |
| 20:01.24 | *** join/#brlcad andax (n=andax__@d213-102-40-30.cust.tele2.ch) |
| 20:01.39 | AlexandreGuedes | i'll start a checkout just now |
| 20:09.31 | mafm | dunno anything about pastebins :( |
| 20:12.50 | brlcad | mafm: nor do I, don't need to know much about pastebin to run one and to install a captcha so it doesn't get spammed ;) |
| 20:16.40 | ``Erik | recaptcha is already installed on that box, right? just a matter of figuring out how to wire it into the php? |
| 20:17.50 | brlcad | yeah, recaptcha is tiny, just a few files |
| 20:18.06 | brlcad | just usually have to add a few lines to whatever form page |
| 20:18.17 | mafm | I thought that it was some kind of lil' specialized cms |
| 20:18.27 | mafm | erm |
| 20:18.28 | brlcad | heck, upgrading the pastebin might have a captcha option |
| 20:18.40 | mafm | I'm busy with miss LH, she doesn't like me! :P |
| 20:18.53 | brlcad | she say no? |
| 20:20.49 | mafm | more or less |
| 20:23.09 | brlcad | well, is it more or is it less? :) |
| 20:24.26 | madant_ | :D |
| 20:26.37 | mafm | it's less than more, but less is more |
| 20:26.56 | mafm | it all depends on the meaning of "enrolled", I can't get such a paper |
| 20:27.08 | madant_ | :) |
| 20:27.36 | mafm | I can get only a paper telling that I finished all the courses, and I have the letter accepting my project |
| 20:27.43 | mafm | but I don't even have a card this year |
| 20:36.40 | mafm | uhm, that apparently is also OK |
| 20:42.07 | CIA-40 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r34130 10/brlcad/trunk/NEWS: |
| 20:42.07 | CIA-40 | BRL-CAD: note that richard and keith added support to rtarea to computer center of |
| 20:42.07 | CIA-40 | BRL-CAD: presented/exposed area. this is related to sf patch 1942589 (Exposed & |
| 20:42.07 | CIA-40 | BRL-CAD: Presented Region Area Center points) from andrecastelo but it was determined |
| 20:42.07 | CIA-40 | BRL-CAD: that the patch was incomplete/unusable. this feature has been requested by |
| 20:42.08 | CIA-40 | BRL-CAD: analyst users (specifically from r. dibelka as well). |
| 20:55.54 | AlexandreGuedes | Yehh!! I got!!!! |
| 20:57.24 | AlexandreGuedes | mafm: make run ok now |
| 20:58.08 | mafm | AlexandreGuedes: congrats, you just burned the equivalent power to a trip from Porto Alegre to Ouro Preto! |
| 20:58.10 | mafm | ;) |
| 20:58.11 | AlexandreGuedes | i cleanup and restart build |
| 20:59.58 | AlexandreGuedes | thanks.. the next stage is something from todo list |
| 21:01.50 | mafm | :) |
| 21:04.00 | mafm | you're welcome |
| 21:08.00 | *** join/#brlcad madant__ (n=madant@117.196.129.53) |
| 21:20.23 | *** join/#brlcad samrose (n=samrose@c-24-11-214-181.hsd1.mi.comcast.net) |
| 21:21.25 | *** join/#brlcad SniX (n=sylvain@R9d61.r.pppool.de) |
| 21:21.37 | SniX | hi |
| 21:29.19 | madant | hi SniX |
| 21:32.00 | SniX | is it possible to use FME using brl-cad? |
| 21:32.16 | SniX | maybe exporting to another package? |
| 21:32.27 | brlcad | you mean FEM? |
| 21:34.01 | SniX | yep, sorry |
| 21:36.25 | brlcad | what do you mean by 'use' then? you can certainly import most FEM's as polygonal/triangle data |
| 21:36.36 | brlcad | and export those out to other packages |
| 21:36.41 | brlcad | using our importers and exporters |
| 21:36.51 | brlcad | depends on the format's you're wanting to go to/from |
| 21:48.59 | SniX | thanks. |
| 21:49.57 | SniX | how do I use a model in another? say I model a screw and want to use it. |
| 21:56.10 | *** join/#brlcad typ0 (n=coder@um-sd06-125-2.uni-mb.si) |
| 21:58.23 | brlcad | SniX: it depends really what you're trying to do |
| 21:59.01 | brlcad | sounds like you probably just want to make a group/assembly, add both objects |
| 21:59.16 | brlcad | g or comb command |
| 21:59.19 | brlcad | (in mged) |
| 22:01.01 | SniX | (my last question was not FEM related). I am thinking about libraries of models. is there something like "import"? |
| 22:09.06 | brlcad | SniX: we have a variety of importers |
| 22:09.12 | brlcad | ls -la /usr/brlcad/bin/*-g |
| 22:09.18 | brlcad | those g files can be opened with mged |
| 22:09.28 | brlcad | and imported into other g files |
| 22:16.11 | SniX | with dbconcat? |
| 22:16.27 | brlcad | yes |
| 22:22.21 | CIA-40 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r34131 10/brlcad/trunk/misc/ (10 files in 10 dirs): remove BLT from windows build |
| 22:34.58 | madant | hmm.. wicked Rube Goldberg http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vrCb_fNmSTA |
| 22:47.33 | mafm | brlcad: were the wiki accounts wiped out? |
| 22:51.38 | madant | mafm: huh ? |
| 22:52.00 | mafm | I can't login in and it won't recognize my mail addresses |
| 22:52.32 | madant | weird.. working for me |
| 22:54.43 | mafm | then I'm afraid I got amnesia and virulent stupidity or something |
| 22:54.45 | mafm | :| |
| 22:57.37 | madant | i think hippieindamakin8 was also having some trouble with the wiki earlier though he figured it out i think. |
| 22:58.28 | hippieindamakin8 | madant, exactly it worked for me in few minutes :) |
| 22:59.44 | brlcad | mafm: the geometry converter API doesn't require knowing geometry formats |
| 22:59.49 | brlcad | it's a refactoring project |
| 22:59.57 | brlcad | we have a bunch of converters, importers/exporters |
| 23:00.04 | brlcad | it's turning them into functions instead of applications |
| 23:00.19 | brlcad | sort of like how libged turned all of mged's commands into functions |
| 23:00.38 | brlcad | mafm: no, accounts have never been removed |
| 23:01.23 | mafm | huh, now it works :) |
| 23:05.00 | mafm | hmm, still that of the exporters is low priority and not specially thrilling |
| 23:08.03 | mafm | I also don't want to submit anything related to GUI if not complementary with Ralith's proposal, I like it and think that it's better "channeled" than my RBGui one last year :) |
| 23:18.31 | CIA-40 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r34132 10/brlcad/trunk/include/config_win.h: remove dead code, define off_t instead of typedef it for some reason |
| 23:20.43 | CIA-40 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r34133 10/brlcad/trunk/configure.ac: check for the old BSD bcmp() function for Windows even though it is part of POSIX 1003.1-2001 |
| 23:24.50 | CIA-40 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r34134 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libsysv/ (Makefile.am bcmp.c): add support for bcmp() for windows. g_diff uses it and windows (98) doesn't seem to have it, so implement a simple PD version. |
| 23:29.02 | CIA-40 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r34135 10/brlcad/trunk/ (3 files in 3 dirs): add bcmp.c to the other build files |
| 23:30.44 | *** join/#brlcad BigAToo (n=BigAToo@mail.fbcelkhart.org) |
| 23:32.10 | CIA-40 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r34136 10/brlcad/trunk/src/gtools/g_transfer.c: make sure we have SIGPIPE for Windows |
| 23:37.31 | brlcad | mafm: of course :) |
| 23:38.10 | brlcad | (and yes, discussions should almost always be public, unless it's a personal issue) |
| 23:38.36 | brlcad | not being high-priority doesn't mean it's low priority |
| 23:38.59 | brlcad | it just means it'll take a little more student-excitement and a better proposal |
| 23:43.11 | mafm | I guessed that it was something like that, thus my "...and not specially thrilling" subjective comment :) |
| 23:43.13 | mafm | sigh |
| 23:43.27 | CIA-40 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r34137 10/brlcad/trunk/src/gtools/Makefile.am: g_diff uses libtclcad for tclcad_auto_path() and tclcad_tcl_library() |
| 23:44.02 | CIA-40 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r34138 10/brlcad/trunk/src/gtools/g_lint.c: use rand() instead of random() since the precision isn't that important here and one isn't available on Windows. |
| 23:46.26 | *** join/#brlcad Lez (n=lezardfl@189.58.209.254.dynamic.adsl.gvt.net.br) |
| 23:46.30 | mafm | well, latish here, going to sleep |
| 23:46.32 | mafm | night |
| 23:48.28 | CIA-40 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r34139 10/brlcad/trunk/NEWS: verified that they now compile, annotate that g_lint, g_transfer, and g_diff are ported to windows given they now compile (and seem to run). |
| 23:48.39 | brlcad | cya mafm |
| 23:49.18 | brlcad | i'm sure there's probably some collaborative piece of the gui work to be done -- like backend work hooking up the geometry service and getting that talking |
| 23:49.51 | mafm | I'll see tomorrow |
| 23:50.44 | mafm | I don't have too much work left to do this week :) |
| 23:50.46 | mafm | night |
| 23:50.52 | CIA-40 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r34140 10/brlcad/trunk/BUGS: windows build seems jacked up. stuff compiling in the wrong order. |