| 00:14.59 | ``Erik | http://www.collegehumor.com/video:1905311 O.O neat |
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| 01:57.34 | ``Erik | dangit, this fortune cookie says "you are not a winner. try again." :( |
| 02:10.18 | starseeker | reflects that's almost exactly how he felt doing taxes :-/ |
| 02:22.14 | brlcad | deeeffache: the U.S. Army Research Laboratory is one of the few places that use it as their primary |
| 02:22.33 | brlcad | as it's specifically tuned to their needs (and comes from them and continues to have development funded by them, etc) |
| 02:23.28 | brlcad | which actually happens to be more of an expert-driven CAE environment, but with strong solid modeling and geometry needs too |
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| 05:34.15 | deeeffache | brlcad: thats good to hear. My initial assumption was that they open sourced it because they were moving on to something "better" |
| 07:33.21 | brlcad | deeeffache: nope, it was opened sourced after many years of effort not because it's not in use, but quite the opposite -- ARL is heavily dependent on and supportive of BRL-CAD, but has relatively limited development capacity because of other priorities (they're not in the software business after all, they do research and analysis work) |
| 07:35.56 | brlcad | going open source was (successfully) argued as a means to give back to the community (tax-payer funded) and encourage/allow open community development, to potentially see BRL-CAD development accelerate faster than ARL can directly fund (and for more varied interests) -- a win/win situation |
| 07:47.49 | Ralith | ``Erik: a fortune cookie says that? |
| 07:47.57 | Ralith | since when can you win something from fortune cookies |
| 07:49.25 | brlcad | kudos to Peter Kan for getting his app in first/early :) |
| 07:49.37 | Ralith | needs to do that. |
| 07:50.00 | brlcad | indeed |
| 07:50.38 | brlcad | keep in mind that you can get something in quickly and then continue to revise it through the sochop interface |
| 07:51.16 | Ralith | oh, really? |
| 07:51.21 | Ralith | that's handy |
| 07:51.41 | brlcad | it's after the deadline that it gets locked down |
| 07:53.16 | *** join/#brlcad d_rossberg (n=rossberg@bz.bzflag.bz) |
| 07:53.39 | brlcad | morning d_rossberg |
| 07:53.42 | Ralith | so why is the oop API project identified as high difficulty? I always thought of wrappers like that as being relatively straightforward. |
| 07:53.55 | d_rossberg | moin moin brlcad |
| 07:56.24 | brlcad | Ralith: mostly because it requires a fair bit of background knowledge that most people don't have -- knowledge of OOP design patterns, knowledge of our libraries (librt, libwdb, libged, libbn, libbu), (basic) familiarity with geometry engines like acis or granite, .. |
| 07:57.10 | brlcad | it's also a lot of work, a lot of places to get something very wrong or make something very poorly designed |
| 07:58.37 | Ralith | ah. |
| 07:59.58 | brlcad | you can get away with only having two of those three, heck even just OO design .. but then you'd have to be even more adept at learning a large codebase quickly (and working on an effort that is already under way too) |
| 08:00.34 | Ralith | is there documentation available for acis/granite? |
| 08:00.59 | brlcad | just what you can find by searching, they're commercial CAD engines |
| 08:01.28 | Ralith | well, that doesn't necessarily mean there aren't good docs up anywhere. |
| 08:01.29 | Ralith | checks |
| 08:01.29 | brlcad | don't really want to use them either (in case there are patent issues, for example), but should be aware of their scope and intent |
| 08:03.31 | deeeffache | What happened to the project priorities on the wiki faq? http://brlcad.org/wiki/FAQ |
| 08:05.56 | Ralith | Are the doxygen docs hosted on brlcad.org? |
| 08:06.07 | CIA-40 | BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * r34092 10/brlcad/trunk/ (include/bu.h src/libbu/avs.c): added const specifiers to bu_avs_add_nonunique()'s parameters |
| 08:07.46 | CIA-40 | BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * r34093 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libged/CMakeLists.txt: added bu_flip.c and bu_sync.c to stay in sync with Makefile.am |
| 08:08.44 | brlcad | Ralith: mmm.. only an old copy, I believe |
| 08:09.11 | Ralith | mightn't it be a Good Thing to make them available there? |
| 08:09.13 | brlcad | http://brlcad.sourceforge.net/doxygen/index.html |
| 08:09.20 | brlcad | sure would |
| 08:09.43 | brlcad | just nobody has taken the time to do it, busy with other things |
| 08:10.27 | Ralith | ah well. I'd take care of it were it covered by svn. |
| 08:12.02 | Ralith | I don't suppose you'd know why g3d depends on the SVN version of OGRE? |
| 08:12.54 | brlcad | deeeffache: fixed |
| 08:13.04 | CIA-40 | BRL-CAD: 03Sean 07http://brlcad.org * r1304 10/wiki/FAQ: they're not in my dir |
| 08:13.46 | brlcad | Ralith: I believe there were build system problems that was only fixed in latest svn -- mafm can surely recall better though |
| 08:14.12 | Ralith | build system problems? O.o |
| 08:14.17 | Ralith | well, I guess I'll wait for mafm to show. |
| 08:14.29 | Ralith | and get ogre updated here while I'm at it. |
| 08:14.49 | brlcad | d_rossberg: heh, subliminal slip? .. bu_* ? :-) |
| 08:14.55 | deeeffache | blasted ~sean, thanks! |
| 08:16.24 | brlcad | Ralith: assuming they'd build clean out of the box or with a simple bootstrapping, they'd be a prime candidate to become an svn:externals |
| 08:17.13 | Ralith | brlcad: isn't it bad practice to make such assumptions of a trunk? |
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| 08:17.36 | Ralith | (assuming that mafm was aware of the bugfix branch and refrained from its use because it didn't work) |
| 08:17.37 | brlcad | never said it'd need to be trunk |
| 08:17.53 | Ralith | I'm not familiar with externals |
| 08:17.58 | Ralith | can you force certain revisions, or something? |
| 08:19.05 | brlcad | it just takes a repository path like checkout, so yeah -- regular revision syntax works just fine |
| 08:19.26 | brlcad | not that using trunk would be horrible -- they're actually a pretty stable trunk last time I was working off svn at least |
| 08:20.16 | Ralith | their page gives that impression too, but it would still result in unpredicttable behavior |
| 08:20.21 | Ralith | -t |
| 08:20.40 | Ralith | especially if some sort of breaking API change came along. |
| 08:22.13 | Ralith | well, I'll see if I can make g3d work with stable and make the whole issue moot. |
| 08:22.25 | brlcad | goes both ways, arguably easier to fix (less time-intensive) the sooner the change occurs before code is entrenched around the old code/api |
| 08:23.08 | Ralith | does make our own trunk less stable with respect to g3d, though. |
| 08:23.17 | Ralith | not that that matters too much at this stage, I suppose |
| 08:23.43 | brlcad | moot issue, though -- that wasn't/isn't a production release code yet -- it's a "get it working" project, basic fundamentals |
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| 08:24.48 | brlcad | more important at this point that it just not actually take up any time (which it didn't/doesn't), so the focus can be on the interface |
| 08:25.12 | Ralith | yeah |
| 08:35.06 | Ralith | brlcad: remind me why mafm didn't use CEGUI? |
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| 11:44.14 | starseeker | notes that as of last night, trunk passed make distcheck on gentoo |
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| 13:01.49 | CIA-40 | BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * r34094 10/rt^3/trunk/ (2 files in 2 dirs): SetName() and SetMatrix() for leaf nodes |
| 13:03.08 | CIA-40 | BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * r34095 10/rt^3/trunk/include/brlcad/ConstDatabase.h: removed unnecessary virtual |
| 13:06.36 | CIA-40 | BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * r34096 10/rt^3/trunk/ (3 files in 2 dirs): read and write Object-attributes (bu_attribute_value_set) |
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| 13:24.30 | madant_ | kanzure: stiny's papers are awesome albeit old, a good resource is cumincad .. the membership to acadia, caadria, ecaade etc. are pretty cheap but really worth it. I like the later approaches by Knight etc. Mathematical formalism of shape grammars is cute indeed but practical applications would be a greater awesomeness :D |
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| 13:46.28 | CIA-40 | BRL-CAD: 03D rossberg 07http://brlcad.org * r1305 10/wiki/BRL-CAD%27s_core_C%2B%2B_interface: |
| 13:47.01 | brlcad | heh, punctuation |
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| 13:55.38 | brlcad | howdy dreeves |
| 13:55.49 | dreeves | hey |
| 13:55.58 | CIA-40 | BRL-CAD: 03D rossberg 07http://brlcad.org * r1306 10/wiki/CoreInterface_Hallo_World_Example: coreInterface "Hello World" example |
| 13:58.38 | dreeves | How's the rowing brlcad? |
| 14:02.50 | brlcad | dreeves: chilly, but great |
| 14:10.14 | CIA-40 | BRL-CAD: 03D rossberg 07http://brlcad.org * r1307 10/wiki/BRL-CAD%27s_core_C%2B%2B_interface: added the tree walker example |
| 14:11.17 | kanzure | madant_: http://groups.google.com/group/openmanufacturing/msg/82dd7c56fcfaefb4? re: shape grammars. |
| 14:16.40 | CIA-40 | BRL-CAD: 03D rossberg 07http://brlcad.org * r1308 10/wiki/CoreInterface_Tree_Walker_Example: coreInterface tree walker example |
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| 14:55.07 | CIA-40 | BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * r34097 10/rt^3/trunk/src/coreInterface/Combination.cpp: it looks like a non-region combination may have other boolean operations than unions too |
| 15:48.06 | CIA-40 | BRL-CAD: 03D rossberg 07http://brlcad.org * r1309 10/wiki/BRL-CAD%27s_core_C%2B%2B_interface: added the PrintTitle example |
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| 16:15.04 | CIA-40 | BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r34098 10/brlcad/trunk/doc/TODO.BREP: Add some notes/brainstorming related to the question of deciding if two points are the same point when they have error bounds. |
| 17:20.06 | starseeker | make distcheck passes on the mac |
| 17:51.51 | brlcad | woot |
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| 18:01.24 | ``Erik | stupid comcrap |
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| 18:18.04 | brlcad | howdy beebee_ |
| 18:18.14 | beebee_ | hello |
| 18:19.43 | brlcad | wonders if there are any others interested in being a gsoc mentor, send me a note in private or public if interested |
| 18:21.41 | beebee_ | sorry, I am new to brlcad development, but i hope you find a mentor. I would love to see that some of the proposals gets implemented |
| 18:22.06 | ``Erik | I can ask indianlarry for ya, if you haven't already |
| 18:23.46 | jonored | On the other side, any suggestions for someone who wants to write up a proposal and likes math a bunch? |
| 18:26.41 | brlcad | beebee_: we have mentors, just reminding a few other devs that hang out in here that they have the opportunity :) |
| 18:26.57 | brlcad | ``Erik: I asked him, he said yes, but he still hasn't gone to sochop yet |
| 18:27.25 | brlcad | jonored: heh, you mean suggestions for a project proposal? |
| 18:28.01 | ``Erik | aight, got him on the page now |
| 18:29.01 | jonored | brlcad: ...yes? I suppose I should go read the webpage again and try to find one... |
| 18:30.40 | brlcad | jonored, the more math-intenseive suggestions are actually all annotated on the ideas page |
| 18:30.43 | brlcad | just search for math |
| 18:31.10 | ``Erik | all ur maff r belong to teh cheezburger kittehs |
| 18:31.59 | jonored | Okay. I did finally work out that curvature of an intersection of a plane and a surface thing, and kinda liked the doing. |
| 18:32.58 | brlcad | right, that was your patch last year, yes? |
| 18:33.24 | brlcad | er, not surface, but line and curve? |
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| 18:34.12 | jonored | Never passed stuff in. I was just digging through trying to be able to slice a surface with a plane and interpolate the curve with arcs. |
| 18:36.14 | jonored | And there isn't somewhere that I know it'd fit outside of the reprap-specific stuff I was doing. |
| 18:38.06 | brlcad | ah, jonored .. confused you with jdoliner :) |
| 18:38.16 | brlcad | he's the one that had the line intersection patch |
| 18:39.55 | jdoliner | hmm it just buzzed me |
| 18:40.09 | jdoliner | I guess you weren't actually looking for me though |
| 18:41.21 | jonored | Ah, okay. That would explain that. Would digging into constraints & parametrics be something viable? |
| 18:42.28 | brlcad | jdoliner: nope, just talking about you |
| 18:42.51 | jdoliner | I see, carry on then gents |
| 18:42.56 | brlcad | jonored: possibly, but you'd need to coordinate that with madant since it's a previous gsoc project already "in progress" |
| 18:43.28 | brlcad | you'd have to sort out who's working on what since he'll possibly continue working on it as well this year |
| 18:43.35 | brlcad | (and you can't collaborate on a group project) |
| 18:44.13 | brlcad | have to be separatable tasks with your own goals -- otherwise, yeah -- fantastic area to work on |
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| 18:50.46 | brlcad | ``Erik: tell larry that he has to accept the invite next |
| 18:51.22 | ``Erik | he's filling out the form right now |
| 18:52.00 | brlcad | happy happy joy joy |
| 18:52.12 | jonored | Okay. So interesting, but it'd take effort to fit it into gsoc. CSG of BREP? |
| 18:52.47 | ``Erik | he's all good now? |
| 18:53.36 | ``Erik | huh, actually, I coulda clicked in and accepted him, too |
| 18:57.02 | brlcad | yep, he's good |
| 18:57.32 | brlcad | jonored: CSG of BREP is pretty tough, but very high priority too :) |
| 18:57.49 | brlcad | very much related to what starseeker and I are presently working on |
| 19:11.50 | starseeker | hoovers up articles on intersection algorithms |
| 19:13.29 | jonored | I should probably write that up then, it sounds like fun. And start reading. Or rather, continue reading, as now I've gotten distracted. |
| 19:22.53 | brlcad | cool |
| 19:23.00 | brlcad | that should be a fun project |
| 19:23.15 | brlcad | jonored: you may also want to check out some of the more recent notes in doc/TODO.BREP |
| 20:05.30 | CIA-40 | BRL-CAD: 03Paulcs 07http://brlcad.org * r1311 10/wiki/Animation: /* With Mencoder */ |
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| 20:18.30 | starseeker | raises eyebrows - apparently MeshLab is using Eigen. Hmm |
| 20:32.25 | starseeker | make distcheck passed on 64 bit Redhat Linux |
| 20:53.44 | hippieindamakin8 | hey brlcad |
| 20:59.34 | brlcad | howdy hippieindamakin8 |
| 21:02.15 | hippieindamakin8 | hey rt now opennurbs just supports the brep and the interconversion of the representations is wat is expected isnt it |
| 21:02.28 | hippieindamakin8 | i went through the papers of esolid and bit of boole |
| 21:04.26 | hippieindamakin8 | brlcad, wat do u exactly mean by BREP-on-BREP CSG evaluations ? |
| 21:06.45 | brlcad | basically, you have some spline-surface object (a NURBS object) and another spline-surface object that overlap and there's a specified boolean evaluation of subtraction, intersection, or union -- evaluate the surfaces and derive the resulting spline-surface object |
| 21:07.57 | hippieindamakin8 | brlcad, this includes nm objects |
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| 21:08.44 | brlcad | what are nm objects |
| 21:08.58 | hippieindamakin8 | non - manifold |
| 21:09.28 | hippieindamakin8 | brlcad, the project involves computationally optimised evaluations of the breps |
| 21:09.38 | hippieindamakin8 | is it ? |
| 21:12.19 | brlcad | they're not optimised |
| 21:12.23 | brlcad | they're just evaluated |
| 21:12.44 | brlcad | they from an unevaluated form to an evaluated form |
| 21:13.09 | brlcad | and no, I don't think it'd necessarily need to include non-manifold geometry but it would need to handle n-manifold geometry |
| 21:13.11 | hippieindamakin8 | yeah basically the evaluation of the booleans is wat has to be done |
| 21:14.16 | hippieindamakin8 | brlcad, yeah true it is very rarely that we encounter the non-manifold geometries (may be because of the degenerate cases of the boolean operations on csgs) |
| 21:15.05 | brlcad | wonders if hippieindamakin8 has something against the word "what" |
| 21:15.17 | hippieindamakin8 | :) |
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| 22:03.58 | Ralith | hey jonored! |
| 22:04.00 | Ralith | how's the slicer? |
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| 22:48.53 | ``Erik | O.o |
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| 23:43.26 | bjorkintosh | jonored did not want to talk about the slicer. |
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