| 00:30.36 | *** join/#brlcad Axman6 (n=Axman6@pdpc/supporter/student/Axman6) |
| 00:44.02 | mafm | night |
| 00:50.39 | brlcad | cya |
| 01:01.41 | starseeker | growls at in comand |
| 01:01.44 | starseeker | command |
| 01:03.33 | brlcad | sup? |
| 01:03.49 | brlcad | that would be a fun command to totally rewrite to be more modular |
| 01:05.12 | brlcad | would be a little tricky to refactor a few things, like making it a pass-through to primitive-specific commands (e.g. "arb8 create param1 param2 param3 ...", "sph make", etc) |
| 01:05.15 | starseeker | Oh, just making the test commands for functionality checking |
| 01:05.33 | starseeker | is getting to figure out legal parameters for all the primitives... |
| 01:06.06 | starseeker | is starting mged testing script for libged work |
| 01:06.12 | brlcad | oh, awesome! |
| 01:06.25 | brlcad | I was thinking about that whilest in the wonderful training today |
| 01:06.34 | starseeker | training? |
| 01:06.57 | starseeker | panics |
| 01:06.59 | brlcad | another construx course that ed and I are in |
| 01:07.03 | brlcad | you're fine |
| 01:07.03 | starseeker | oh, ok |
| 01:07.05 | starseeker | phew |
| 01:07.15 | brlcad | today was 50% overlap with estimation training |
| 01:07.25 | brlcad | next two days are more to the meat |
| 01:07.33 | starseeker | got to play with financial stuff and car oil changes - got in at 5pm :-( |
| 01:07.36 | starseeker | cool |
| 01:07.47 | brlcad | and at least he covered and was familiar with how his practices relate to agile methods |
| 01:08.05 | starseeker | well, that helps a bit :-) |
| 01:08.16 | starseeker | still has fond memories of the previous course |
| 01:08.37 | brlcad | yeah, he seems a lot more knowledgable about the differences in different types of projects, research-oriented, production-oriented |
| 01:09.02 | brlcad | how they relate, how various techniques fall apart |
| 01:09.13 | starseeker | awesome |
| 01:10.31 | brlcad | if anyone wants to talk to the sourceforge staffers, they're hosting an "open house" meeting on the 29th (Time: 2009-01-29 11:00AM Eastern (08:00AM Pacific, 15:00 UTC)) |
| 01:10.53 | starseeker | irc? |
| 01:10.57 | brlcad | they'll open to complaints, requests, comments |
| 01:11.02 | brlcad | yeah on irc |
| 01:11.05 | starseeker | nifty |
| 01:11.10 | brlcad | irc.slashnet.org, #sourceforge |
| 01:11.34 | brlcad | it's not the first time they've done it, they started irc meetings about a year ago, have held a couple |
| 01:11.56 | brlcad | is particularly interested in the new trac integration... |
| 01:12.35 | brlcad | I'm not sure if it's a solution in search of a problem, but trac is a much better tracking system than the sf.net trackers |
| 01:12.40 | starseeker | doesn't really have too much to complain about, aside from the connection being dropped on big commits... |
| 01:12.46 | starseeker | nice |
| 01:12.47 | brlcad | for at least some definitions of 'better' |
| 01:13.37 | brlcad | if you want to kick the tires on it, lemme know and I'll turn it on |
| 01:14.14 | brlcad | there are about a dozen other apps they've recently integrated too with the new infrastructure, documented somewhere.. (just lemme know) |
| 01:14.48 | starseeker | cool |
| 01:14.51 | starseeker | will look into it |
| 01:15.22 | starseeker | is about to be drivin nuts by the stray character capture in the tcl command window |
| 01:16.26 | brlcad | you ran into it? |
| 01:16.33 | brlcad | it's *really* easy to fix |
| 01:16.41 | brlcad | IFF you find the keybinding that causes it |
| 01:16.53 | starseeker | looks like it's popping up when I do a paste into tcl, and then hit return too fast |
| 01:16.54 | brlcad | I fixed "most" of them over a year ago |
| 01:17.12 | starseeker | can't nail it down yet |
| 01:17.36 | starseeker | glares at Tk for allowing it to happen in the first place |
| 01:17.40 | brlcad | could be a scroll event (including you clicking on the scroll bar) |
| 01:18.24 | brlcad | tk textareas with a scrollbar are very very simple, app code controls pretty much every binding |
| 01:18.53 | brlcad | at least the way we use it -- there's probably a better widget now that does much of it for free, but not back in the day |
| 01:18.59 | starseeker | nods |
| 01:19.18 | starseeker | note to self - find better text widget... |
| 01:22.15 | brlcad | not worth it |
| 01:22.49 | brlcad | it'd take a lot of work to decouple it and if you did everything right, it'd be nearly identical |
| 01:23.05 | starseeker | wouldn't it be a benefit on the maintainance side of things though? |
| 01:23.08 | brlcad | better effort spent merging archer with mged |
| 01:23.11 | starseeker | true |
| 01:23.19 | brlcad | I think its text widget might be newer/better |
| 01:24.58 | starseeker | that reminds me - how did you want to address the "list of drawn objects" problem? It seems like a state issue, and libged is supposed to be stateless, but some of the commands need to "trigger" an entry in some list somewhere in MGED, at the very least |
| 01:27.41 | starseeker | not to mention rt itself |
| 01:31.00 | brlcad | hmm.. hehe, now what a thing of beauty .. http://brlcad.org/~sean/tmp/lotii.jpg |
| 01:31.30 | starseeker | heh |
| 01:31.45 | starseeker | where'd that come from? |
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| 01:31.57 | brlcad | libged operates on a ged structure, which includes lists -- so the commands themselves are stateless, but they are passed lists to operate upon (and have to be written/modified to recognize the ged lists) |
| 01:32.04 | brlcad | just found it somewhere |
| 01:32.11 | starseeker | cool |
| 01:32.13 | brlcad | i think that's all the colors :) |
| 01:32.20 | starseeker | thought for a second it was a raytraced image :-P |
| 01:32.23 | brlcad | except two exotics |
| 01:32.47 | brlcad | don't think the mother-of-pearl one is there |
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| 01:42.15 | starseeker | phew |
| 01:44.12 | starseeker | that's all the primitives in claims to support in 7.12.6 |
| 01:54.37 | starseeker | brlcad: I'm going to stick what I've got into svn for safe keeping, but it's nowhere near ready so it's a temporary file name and not being added to the test routines |
| 01:55.09 | starseeker | however, using the "would I want to redo this if I lost it" metric i don't want to lose it ;-) |
| 01:56.15 | CIA-31 | BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r33608 10/brlcad/trunk/regress/mged_test.sh: Add early stages of mged test script intended to exercise (eventually) all mged commands. |
| 02:04.28 | brlcad | starseeker: k, just don't forget EXTRA_DIST though in the meantime |
| 02:04.49 | brlcad | distcheck will fail if files are missing |
| 02:17.13 | CIA-31 | BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r33609 10/brlcad/trunk/regress/Makefile.am: put mged_test.sh in EXTRA_DIST |
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| 03:12.30 | yukonbob | hello, cadheads |
| 03:12.34 | brlcad | howdy |
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| 03:41.08 | starseeker | brlcad: I don't suppose there are any docs anywhere on the implementation of sketch and what { bezier D 4 P { 4 7 9 8 0 } } is actually describing? |
| 03:44.54 | brlcad | bezier curve, degree 4, control points 4 5 9 8 and 0 |
| 03:45.39 | starseeker | hmm - so points are defined independently of particular segments? |
| 03:46.26 | starseeker | what about { carc S 6 E 5 R -1 L 0 O 0 } |
| 03:48.13 | brlcad | yeah |
| 03:48.18 | brlcad | there should be a vertex list |
| 03:48.26 | starseeker | weird |
| 03:48.37 | brlcad | lines, carcs, bezeiers, reference indices of that array |
| 03:48.56 | brlcad | S 5 E 4 .. starts at vertex 5 ends at 4 |
| 03:49.07 | starseeker | ok - R is radius? |
| 03:49.09 | brlcad | R -1 |
| 03:49.10 | brlcad | right |
| 03:49.43 | starseeker | is that for storage/efficiency reasons? |
| 03:50.04 | starseeker | would have stored line, xy start, xy end |
| 03:50.27 | brlcad | yeah, generally way more compact as points are usually referenced at least twice |
| 03:50.59 | brlcad | and it makes for a topological structure |
| 03:51.24 | brlcad | you know that two line segments actually connect by the fact that they reference the same point |
| 03:51.32 | brlcad | not just because they are "close" within a tolerance |
| 03:51.41 | starseeker | OK, I can see that |
| 03:51.57 | starseeker | REALLY needs to work on his primitives documentation... |
| 03:53.02 | brlcad | it's pretty common paradigm, most geometry formats do that for all primitives (check out an stl or dxf file sometime to see more examples) |
| 03:53.24 | starseeker | nods - I can see the logic, just makes for very unintuitive "interactive" geometry entering |
| 03:53.45 | brlcad | yeah :) |
| 03:53.57 | brlcad | have to specify all your points in advance |
| 03:54.03 | brlcad | it shouldn't be the interactive form |
| 03:54.47 | starseeker | hmm. |
| 03:55.04 | starseeker | was setting up the "in" command to do just that, but perhaps that's a bad move |
| 03:55.07 | brlcad | make interactive whatever is most intuitive for interactive |
| 03:55.17 | brlcad | you have a lot more flexibility there |
| 03:55.37 | brlcad | none of the other primitives match the tclget form |
| 03:55.52 | brlcad | at least not 1-1, none that come to mind |
| 03:56.10 | starseeker | 's first thought is to specify line segments, arcs, etc. and have the in command figure out the points and make them "available" if the user wants to specify them |
| 03:57.06 | starseeker | hmm |
| 03:57.18 | starseeker | I could really go to town with this if I'm not careful |
| 03:57.26 | brlcad | since you have the "points" in ascii form at that point (no pun intended), you should be able to dervie the vertex list |
| 03:57.34 | starseeker | sure |
| 03:57.42 | brlcad | or.. |
| 03:58.27 | starseeker | I was thinking to be able to specify either "X,Y" line segments or "2->4" style to save typing |
| 03:58.52 | brlcad | without much thought into it, could be similar to the tclget form sans the VL, but allowing 'in' to have segmented sections for each 'primitive' type prefixed with an identifier |
| 03:58.52 | starseeker | I've got to be careful not to make "in" too elaborate though |
| 03:59.19 | brlcad | then you could specify 'v'ertices as a primitive of their own before use |
| 03:59.34 | starseeker | right |
| 04:00.04 | brlcad | like if you wanted to make a line: in sketch sketch v 4.5 2.3 v 8.4 7.4 s 0 1 |
| 04:00.07 | starseeker | at user option either specify a vertix explicitly, or have them deduced from more "intuitive information |
| 04:00.51 | starseeker | or, in sketch sketch l 4.5 2.3 8.4 7.4 -> same thing |
| 04:01.02 | brlcad | I don't think you'd be able to deduce index vs value reliably without a hint |
| 04:01.20 | starseeker | l would be the hint - "line segment" |
| 04:01.34 | brlcad | e.g. in sketch sketch l 4 2 8 7 |
| 04:01.44 | brlcad | is that 4.0 2.0 8.0 7.0 or indices |
| 04:01.55 | starseeker | use l for xy xy form, s for v1 v2 form |
| 04:02.20 | brlcad | hm |
| 04:02.28 | brlcad | double up all the entity types |
| 04:02.32 | brlcad | interesting thought |
| 04:02.36 | starseeker | right |
| 04:02.46 | starseeker | what's "intuitive" will depend on the situation |
| 04:03.04 | starseeker | or the user |
| 04:03.48 | brlcad | could be something like "s"/"si", "c"/"ci", etc |
| 04:03.55 | starseeker | right |
| 04:04.17 | brlcad | more to type, but less to remember |
| 04:04.32 | starseeker | and consistent between types |
| 04:13.04 | brlcad | well, that's one bit you can probably have fun with for sure |
| 04:13.11 | starseeker | :-) |
| 04:13.45 | starseeker | the sketch editor actually makes a bit more sense now that I get how it's thinking about verticies |
| 04:14.08 | brlcad | yeah, you probably see how the interface basically just directly ties to the data |
| 04:14.39 | brlcad | because it was completely written in just a couple days |
| 04:14.48 | starseeker | nods |
| 04:15.19 | starseeker | soome sense of scale in the drawing window would probably help |
| 04:15.49 | brlcad | probably |
| 04:16.00 | brlcad | though it does auto-adjust based on the points that are created |
| 04:16.12 | brlcad | so they're semi-sensibly normalized to a useful range |
| 04:16.32 | starseeker | sure, but you can't SEE that up front ;-) |
| 04:17.41 | brlcad | right, but if I saw the values and saw that the values kept changing on me, that'd be a bigger problem (I'd expect a fixed controllable scale like the 3D view) |
| 04:17.54 | starseeker | nods |
| 04:18.37 | starseeker | thinks it would also help to have two panes - one which shows the sketch in its local coordinate system and another which lets the user get at the 3D settings |
| 04:19.29 | starseeker | or, alternately, have the MGED window's display of the sketch object handle that part |
| 04:19.35 | starseeker | just like any other primitive |
| 04:20.52 | starseeker | brlcad: Thanks for the orientation - it really helped |
| 04:21.48 | brlcad | nods |
| 04:22.57 | starseeker | I really should get out of here... |
| 04:22.59 | yukonbob | brlcad: question: ".a" archives are always "static", correct? |
| 04:23.00 | brlcad | sketch really belongs integrated, just with a distinction of 2D editing operations and 3D editing operations (along with 4D) as separate "interfaces" |
| 04:23.10 | brlcad | yukonbob: .a are static archives, yes |
| 04:27.01 | Ralith | yukonbob, iirc, .a is literally just an amaglamation of .o |
| 04:27.48 | brlcad | pretty much, at least the symbols of the specified .o files plus a table of contents |
| 04:27.54 | brlcad | not just a concatenation of files |
| 04:28.21 | brlcad | plus/minus a few discrepancies for various platforms over the decades |
| 04:28.26 | Ralith | yeah, not quite that literally. |
| 04:28.48 | starseeker | :q |
| 04:28.53 | starseeker | whoops, that's not vim |
| 04:29.35 | starseeker | <grin> and now I'm going to go operate a motor vehicle |
| 04:29.37 | Ralith | if I had the power to trigger a netsplit, that would have been an awesome time to do so. |
| 04:29.54 | starseeker | lol |
| 04:29.54 | yukonbob | wtf would libtool be trying to dynamically link a .a? |
| 04:30.02 | Ralith | O.o |
| 04:30.13 | yukonbob | www.pastebin.ca/1319264 |
| 04:30.14 | brlcad | yukonbob: because someone specified a .a as an ldadd |
| 04:31.12 | yukonbob | Ralith: re: 'amalgamation' -- ya -- .a == archive, which iiuc is actually similar to tar, for example... it has a ToC, etc. and can hold multiple files... |
| 04:31.59 | yukonbob | heh |
| 04:32.10 | yukonbob | sees this has been discussed above... |
| 04:35.39 | brlcad | yukonbob: that pastebin is normal -- it's just a warning that a "libtool archive" (.la) was created that referenced linking against a library for which there was no dynamic library found |
| 04:36.20 | brlcad | so it's saying that it'll have to differ linking until the .la is used whereupon it'll use the .a it found (which is fine for binaries) |
| 04:37.02 | brlcad | it didn't try to dynamically link a .a, it said it couldn't but that was all it found |
| 04:50.50 | CIA-31 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r33610 10/brlcad/trunk/include/bu.h: gah, hard-coding to 5 is a problem on 64-bit platforms where long's can be 64-bit and require a 6 shift. must have been asleep at the keyboard. |
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| 05:21.53 | *** topic/#brlcad is BRL-CAD Open Source Solid Modeling || http://brlcad.org || http://sf.net/projects/brlcad || GSoC 2008 Highlight: new prototype gui, check it out! || Source Release 7.14.0 is now posted (20081108) |
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| 07:01.48 | yukonbob | brlcad: ok -- thx for that commentary -- I've got more questions/cases coming -- I'm approaching this in a measured baby-step fashion as much as I can... ;) |
| 07:55.37 | starseek1r | decides sleep is in order... |
| 07:56.27 | starseeker | humph |
| 08:06.40 | brlcad | heh |
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| 08:56.28 | csanyipal | Howdy! |
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| 12:03.40 | d-lo | mernin all |
| 12:04.39 | mafm | mernin d-lo! |
| 12:07.10 | d-lo | Finally getting snow here. Time for some sled action... well after work that is. |
| 12:13.43 | mafm | :) |
| 12:13.53 | mafm | we had a bit of snow several times, but not very heavy |
| 12:14.01 | mafm | we never do |
| 12:21.00 | d-lo | well, aren't you somewhat close to the Med? |
| 12:31.09 | mafm | mmm |
| 12:31.15 | mafm | I'll geolocate myself now: |
| 12:31.20 | *** join/#brlcad madant (n=madant@117.196.128.155) |
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| 12:36.50 | mafm | ops :) |
| 12:38.59 | mafm | http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=lugo&sll=38.707163,-9.135517&sspn=0.428661,0.76561 |
| 12:41.17 | madant | mafm u are at Lugo ? |
| 12:41.27 | mafm | madant: yep |
| 12:42.03 | mafm | why, do you know somebody from there? |
| 12:42.43 | madant | nah.. only Barcelona which is like the other coast right :) |
| 12:42.51 | madant | ever been to Siurana ? |
| 12:42.56 | mafm | yep |
| 12:43.05 | mafm | 1k km away |
| 12:43.20 | mafm | nope, I don't even know where Siurana is :) |
| 12:43.55 | mafm | about the proximity to mediterranian sea: alps are closer, pirinees are touching it, and there's a lot of snow there :) |
| 12:44.18 | d-lo | mafm: So I see :) |
| 12:44.47 | ``Erik | I don't think I can get to the main road |
| 12:44.49 | mafm | but there are no big mountains around, the tallest are about 2k meters |
| 12:45.48 | d-lo | ``Erik: I am begining to see a pattern with you and brlcad: "Oh i have this expensive, awesome sports car and there is a bit of snow on the ground... guess I'll have to stay home today!" :P |
| 12:45.51 | madant | Siurana is near barcelona . good for climbing |
| 12:45.53 | madant | http://www.master-hunters.com/fotos/siurana.jpg |
| 12:46.23 | mafm | :) |
| 12:46.32 | mafm | I've only been a couple of times in Catalonia |
| 12:46.33 | d-lo | madant: Thats a beautiful picture! |
| 12:46.35 | ``Erik | they're light, have insane amounts of torque and have tires that simply do not grab in snow and rain |
| 12:46.52 | ``Erik | my truck woulda done it, my car cannot |
| 12:47.33 | d-lo | Took the Jeep out and had some pseudo-offroading/snowsleding fun this morning :) Its why I got to work about an hour later than norm :) |
| 12:47.35 | ``Erik | and amusingly, I think there's more snow on my driveway than I can clear |
| 12:47.56 | ``Erik | heh, I had an '80 honda civic stationwagon that I did effin' insane shit in the snow with |
| 12:48.03 | d-lo | how much you have on the ground thus far ``Erik |
| 12:48.15 | d-lo | Honda's are great for that. |
| 12:48.25 | ``Erik | at one point, I got stuck in mud and snow, ended up pushing it into a ditch and slaloming down to the street below |
| 12:48.40 | d-lo | CRX + snow covereed deserted mall parking lot = crazy fun :) |
| 12:48.48 | d-lo | lol nice! |
| 12:48.56 | ``Erik | um, well, ok, I'm sure it does clear, but I can't see the road or sidewalk, it's hard to make out the curb |
| 12:49.22 | ``Erik | looks lik ea couple inches |
| 12:49.26 | ``Erik | ~2-3 |
| 12:49.27 | ibot | -1 |
| 12:49.33 | d-lo | lol |
| 12:49.53 | d-lo | damn 'bots always piping up when you don't wantem to. |
| 12:50.05 | d-lo | ~What is the meaning of life? |
| 12:50.07 | ibot | I think you lost me on that one, d-lo |
| 12:50.19 | ``Erik | I only see 3 cars tracks in the cul de sac here |
| 12:50.21 | d-lo | its 42 silly. Sheesh. |
| 12:50.22 | ``Erik | ~what is 42? |
| 12:50.23 | ibot | 42 is, like, the answer to life the universe and everything, see also http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/the_answer_to_life,_the_universe,_and_everything |
| 12:50.29 | ``Erik | NO ROUND TRIP! FAIL@ |
| 12:50.50 | ``Erik | is the BC in? |
| 12:50.59 | ``Erik | I'm getting no answer on the phone |
| 12:51.09 | d-lo | Dunno. They have that Software training thing going on. |
| 12:51.16 | ``Erik | ohhhh, hrm |
| 12:51.25 | ``Erik | that'd be why I got no answer yesterday |
| 12:51.37 | d-lo | if you want, "I saw Erik here today" :) |
| 12:51.49 | ``Erik | nah, I'm too honest for all that |
| 12:51.49 | d-lo | I think its me an d John A in the whole building. |
| 12:51.53 | ``Erik | hrm |
| 12:52.11 | ``Erik | do you have a CoC? |
| 12:52.14 | ``Erik | wow, that sounded wrong |
| 12:52.41 | d-lo | we only have abour 1" on the ground up by my house, but by the way the radio and TV are reporting it, you'd think its The End. |
| 12:52.46 | d-lo | lol |
| 12:53.13 | ``Erik | it's moving east by northeast, so you might get soem more |
| 12:53.34 | d-lo | CoC = Cohorts of Chaos. A Centaur based guild on the game of Shadowbane known for their effective hit and run tactics. |
| 12:53.38 | ``Erik | here's the thing, I can't drive, but I want to work, I d'no if it'd be ok for me to work from home, being open source, etc |
| 12:53.42 | ``Erik | I meant chain of command |
| 12:53.51 | d-lo | :D |
| 12:53.56 | ``Erik | otherwise, it'd be corrosion of conformity |
| 12:54.08 | d-lo | Just leave messages. If I see someone, I will let em know. |
| 12:54.16 | ``Erik | which became a pretty decent band when they picked up pepper |
| 12:54.36 | ``Erik | yeah buying an outback is looking more and more attractive |
| 12:54.42 | d-lo | I saw them when the opened for Metallica during the Poor ol Touring Me tour in Orlando. |
| 12:54.51 | ``Erik | uhm, around '93 or '94? |
| 12:55.05 | d-lo | Outbank in addition to the M3? |
| 12:55.09 | d-lo | '97 |
| 12:55.15 | d-lo | summer of '97 |
| 12:55.26 | ``Erik | my best bud in high school was hired as a bouncer for metallica and CoC in seattle around '94 or so |
| 12:55.51 | ``Erik | yeah, m3 for nice days, outback for not nice days, plus the larger payload |
| 12:55.56 | ``Erik | and selling my truck to a neighbor |
| 12:56.31 | d-lo | yeah, you told me about the truck. If you need help pushing it out into the street, lemme know :) |
| 12:56.54 | ``Erik | hehehe, well, a neighbors friend wants to buy it to fix it up for his son, and the neighbor is thinking about buying it himself |
| 12:56.56 | d-lo | So... normal Outback or Baja Outback ;) |
| 12:57.17 | ``Erik | uhm, they have like half a dozen variants now, I was looking at the 'sports' edition, because I'm, well, stupid |
| 12:58.51 | *** join/#brlcad mafm2 (n=quassel@119.Red-81-39-20.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net) |
| 12:58.59 | brlcad | has absolutely no aversion to working (or going in to work), else I wouldn't do this for fun and in most of my spare time too |
| 12:59.03 | d-lo | Nah, not stupid... just enjoys a nice toy or two. |
| 12:59.13 | brlcad | suckers just pay me to do it too |
| 12:59.17 | d-lo | lol |
| 12:59.21 | brlcad | so I buy toys |
| 12:59.43 | ``Erik | morning, "the boy" |
| 13:00.22 | brlcad | not nice to call mafm2 that! |
| 13:00.41 | d-lo | brlcad: hows the class? |
| 13:00.53 | brlcad | it's alright |
| 13:02.22 | brlcad | mostly a big rehash of things already known, particularly for open source project management, agile practices, estimation techniques |
| 13:02.37 | brlcad | today and tomorrow are diff topics, so will see |
| 13:03.02 | d-lo | heh, well, known to you mebbe, hence why *I* wanted to go :P |
| 13:04.48 | d-lo | brlcad: you gonna be able to make it to post? |
| 13:04.50 | brlcad | wanting to get into project management? |
| 13:05.16 | brlcad | d-lo: don't see why not |
| 13:06.01 | brlcad | ballerina on ice .. just have to take it really slow |
| 13:06.02 | d-lo | brlcad: Yes, actually i do. And was just asking about the roads because the one's I traveled were not that great and getting worse. |
| 13:06.53 | mafm2 | d-lo: :P |
| 13:07.46 | brlcad | mm, frightening :) |
| 13:08.07 | d-lo | well, its not the roads, but the retarded hicks with big trucks that scare me. |
| 13:08.20 | brlcad | not that, wanting to :) |
| 13:09.18 | d-lo | heh, well I have managed my way out of a few wet paper bags in my life so there :P |
| 13:09.45 | brlcad | like many things, the job is often best served by people that don't want it -- the don't meddle/impose, don't get too involved, have more humble people skills, protect their people better, etc |
| 13:10.27 | brlcad | particularly for software management, unless you start up a production shop where you're just coding widgets with no research aspect |
| 13:11.13 | d-lo | hrm, well, the opposite can be said also. Too humble/univolved and the leadership aspect is nullified. |
| 13:11.29 | brlcad | sure, it's not black and white |
| 13:11.30 | d-lo | Its more a fine balance that makes a good manager. |
| 13:11.34 | brlcad | it's just the bigger trend |
| 13:12.18 | d-lo | I'll agree 100% with the micromanagement. Let the workers work and the leaders lead ;) |
| 13:12.46 | brlcad | it's not just micromanagement |
| 13:12.58 | brlcad | it doesn't take much at all to demotivate |
| 13:13.57 | brlcad | hell, I honestly almost quit over an argument about shutting doors many years ago |
| 13:14.30 | d-lo | Exactly, which is where a univolved/humble manager will fail. If a manager cannot set realistic, attainable waypoints/goals with tangible benefits for the workers, morale drops quickly. |
| 13:14.56 | brlcad | authority or rules without merit or reason is a non-starter in my world |
| 13:14.56 | d-lo | brlcad: as in you wanted your door shut but management said to keep it open? |
| 13:15.41 | brlcad | no, different, but that's for another day |
| 13:15.53 | d-lo | I think thats a given, actually. Very few people nowadays are happy with 'just obeying the rules without knowing the why behind them' |
| 13:16.35 | d-lo | okay. I could just see some of the managers here starting BS like that, lol |
| 13:16.40 | brlcad | people bend to the rules *all* the time, put up with crap and find work-arounds instead of fixing the imposition problem |
| 13:17.23 | d-lo | heh, never said they didn't bend to them, just said they aren't happy blindly following. They usually seek the 'Why' or just quit. |
| 13:17.53 | d-lo | But you are right, many people don't try to fix the problem.... thats someone else's job... right? |
| 13:17.56 | d-lo | :) |
| 13:18.24 | brlcad | the point should be seen in the industry productivity quotia .. that gov't employees on *average* are only 30% productive |
| 13:18.34 | brlcad | compared to industry's roughly 70% average |
| 13:19.41 | d-lo | Thats okay though, because Obama will fix that too. lol |
| 13:19.45 | brlcad | that implies that on average at least, that gov't workers put up with and allow (or require) more than twice as much overhead process in their work |
| 13:20.21 | d-lo | well, thats assuming that 'Laziness' is either not accounted for or part of overhead :) |
| 13:20.42 | brlcad | process for the sake of process "to be safe", process on top of process, inefficiency at every corner, entrenched workers that do negative work |
| 13:20.56 | brlcad | the class actually touched on net negative programmers, I was really glad to see that |
| 13:21.14 | ``Erik | hides |
| 13:21.18 | d-lo | lol |
| 13:21.41 | brlcad | did not know that the rate of negative programmers is actually around 30% |
| 13:21.45 | ``Erik | I have an abstract to write, and a fistful of crap I wanna work on, sucks |
| 13:21.48 | ``Erik | really? huh |
| 13:22.04 | ``Erik | uh, how did the bz migration go? HRM? |
| 13:22.21 | ``Erik | order of criticality is bz, the suns, then code, right? |
| 13:22.22 | ``Erik | :D |
| 13:22.39 | brlcad | the migration has actually been underway |
| 13:22.39 | d-lo | rate.... as in the amount of negative producicity they create or the amount of neg programmers compared to the total amount of programmers. |
| 13:22.43 | d-lo | > |
| 13:22.45 | d-lo | ? |
| 13:23.12 | ``Erik | software developers have a HUGE difference between 'stars' and 'tards' |
| 13:23.16 | brlcad | d-lo: that on a given team, the team would actually get *more* work done if that programmer was not there |
| 13:23.19 | brlcad | in the long run |
| 13:23.36 | brlcad | due to bugs that go unnoticed that have to get fixed X months/years from now |
| 13:23.45 | brlcad | due to overhead communication to keep everyone informed |
| 13:23.57 | brlcad | due to arguments and disconformity |
| 13:23.59 | ``Erik | mythical man month provided brilliant insight in the 70's |
| 13:24.16 | ``Erik | but was mostly ignored by the "powers that be" |
| 13:24.32 | brlcad | ``Erik: you'll like one stat .. i'll have to mention it later |
| 13:24.41 | ``Erik | heh, pm? |
| 13:24.51 | brlcad | no, i'm just gonna be late |
| 13:24.56 | brlcad | ask me about paradigms |
| 13:25.24 | ``Erik | ok, *shrug* when we're both in the office, I'll jabber about four nickels |
| 13:25.53 | ``Erik | a bit confused why this can't be said here and now, but *shrug* |
| 13:25.55 | brlcad | or here later, I just gotta hit the road :) |
| 13:26.22 | ``Erik | ah, aight, you're riding what, michelin pilot pros? be damn careful, they don't grab snow/ice owrth a fuck |
| 13:26.37 | ``Erik | I have 'em on the front, I refuse to drive cuz I don't feel like dying today |
| 13:26.53 | d-lo | "Today is a good day to die." |
| 13:27.05 | brlcad | more worried about getting her prettiness all sullied with muck and grime |
| 13:27.10 | ``Erik | heh, amusingly, I have a wad of that blood. |
| 13:27.13 | ``Erik | but I disagree. |
| 13:27.45 | archivist | cars are meant to be used |
| 13:27.45 | ``Erik | tell ya what, witht he m's, I'm FAR more scared about the fucker behind me not having the braking power |
| 13:28.26 | ``Erik | I mean, good street conditions, I can clomp down and stop in half the distance of an average sedan... fuckers tailgate and don't pay attention, it's damn dangerous |
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| 13:28.46 | d-lo | yeah, the snow has always been the least of my worries... its all the idiots out there. |
| 13:29.43 | d-lo | I'll be watching the roads/storm progress. I'll jet if it gets too bad. Although I don't think it will be a problem. |
| 13:29.43 | ``Erik | the, uh, silverado sportback that parks in the same lot, I hit the brakes coming up on paradise, the dude was all sideways and shit from hitting the brakes too hard :( he blew out into the turn lane, but I was crapping my drawers |
| 13:29.54 | d-lo | has been playing ddo and kinda likes it. |
| 13:30.07 | ``Erik | your jeep should be able to track fairly well in this east coast shit |
| 13:30.17 | ``Erik | ddo? |
| 13:30.27 | ``Erik | dance dance OBLIVION? |
| 13:30.39 | d-lo | vomits. |
| 13:30.56 | d-lo | No, not that retarded game. |
| 13:31.00 | d-lo | D&D online. |
| 13:31.08 | d-lo | playing the 10 day free trial. |
| 13:31.10 | ``Erik | did you see the generic rip-off at the bowling alley? |
| 13:31.25 | d-lo | Nope, must have missed it. |
| 13:31.35 | d-lo | Either that or my brain blocked it out from my memory on purpose. |
| 13:31.48 | ``Erik | they're redoing shit, it's amusing, in the "arcade" section, there is a ddr rip-off |
| 13:32.04 | ``Erik | richard claims it's going out due to green tube failure |
| 13:32.18 | d-lo | 'green tube failure' |
| 13:32.24 | d-lo | ... is that medical talk? |
| 13:32.31 | ``Erik | crt shit |
| 13:32.48 | d-lo | eww.... who uses crts anymore? |
| 13:33.02 | ``Erik | it's a halfassed ddr rip with a little crt and a shitty stomp pad thing |
| 13:33.50 | d-lo | heh, I threatend my mother-in-law's life when she mentioned she might get us that DDR pad for Xmas. |
| 13:34.12 | d-lo | We got copies of NWN instead :) |
| 13:34.56 | d-lo | hates DDR in case you haven't noticed. |
| 13:36.14 | d-lo | hey, where can you find the default size of the Socket buffer at the OS level? |
| 13:38.55 | ``Erik | um, usually it's the same as the page buffer |
| 13:39.03 | ``Erik | BUFSIZ in uh, stdlib.h I think |
| 13:39.08 | d-lo | kk. |
| 13:39.34 | d-lo | justr trying to size a socket buffer intelligently. |
| 13:39.49 | ``Erik | most os's have gone with 0-copy socket buffers, so it's a page |
| 13:41.02 | ``Erik | um, the ether spec says 1500, which comes out to like 1486 or something, but frags are recouped immediately now |
| 13:41.07 | ``Erik | *think* |
| 13:41.18 | d-lo | 1500 bytes? |
| 13:41.25 | ``Erik | *fail* 1k is probably a good size |
| 13:41.26 | ``Erik | yeah |
| 13:41.51 | ``Erik | there's crap fro "large packets"... heh, I d'no, I don't remember |
| 13:42.05 | d-lo | no worries... just looking for a starting point. |
| 13:42.40 | ``Erik | 1k is safe, 4k is common |
| 13:43.13 | ``Erik | BUFSIZ is usually 4k |
| 13:43.39 | ``Erik | if you get to the point where it actually matters, you'll know. |
| 13:44.18 | d-lo | well, I will be streaming several MB of data, so I am going to fill the buffer every time.. |
| 13:45.50 | ``Erik | don't sweat it until it becomes a problem |
| 13:46.14 | ``Erik | fragment collectors and buffers are pretty damn solid these days |
| 13:46.26 | d-lo | kk |
| 13:46.33 | d-lo | so what you upto today> |
| 13:46.34 | d-lo | ? |
| 13:46.55 | ``Erik | I need to write an abstract for a conference |
| 13:47.02 | ``Erik | and do some adrt/isst work |
| 13:47.05 | d-lo | abstract.... what? |
| 13:47.27 | ``Erik | uh, some v/l conf up in jersey that BC is all twisted in a knot about |
| 13:47.47 | d-lo | so an abstract presentation? |
| 13:48.17 | ``Erik | yeah, she wants me to present in like may, but it needs and abstract by end of jan |
| 13:48.41 | d-lo | wow... thats a bit ahead of schedule! |
| 13:49.02 | ``Erik | gov't is as gov't does |
| 13:53.16 | *** join/#brlcad Vivek (n=Vivek@gnu-india/admin/VivekVC) |
| 13:53.49 | Vivek | Where can I get the install instructions for brl-cad ? |
| 13:54.26 | Vivek | I have downloaded the 64 bit version and unzipped and untared it |
| 13:54.43 | d-lo | what OS? |
| 13:57.15 | Vivek | Ubuntu |
| 13:57.59 | d-lo | did you get the binaries or the source? |
| 13:59.19 | Vivek | d-lo: http://downloads.sourceforge.net/brlcad/brlcad_7.12.2_x86_64.tar.gz?modtime=1209452298&big_mirror=0 |
| 13:59.53 | Vivek | d-lo: Source from the above URL. |
| 14:00.42 | ``Erik | what is the fail? |
| 14:01.02 | d-lo | that looks like a Binary distribution. try running mged from rel-7.12.2/bin/ |
| 14:01.39 | Vivek | ``Erik: I need the howto to install it on ubuntu, a pointer to the revelant document would be nice.\ |
| 14:02.04 | Vivek | d-lo: I use ubuntu not rhel. |
| 14:02.23 | d-lo | Vivek: yes, you said that. |
| 14:02.30 | ``Erik | the code is the doc :D I'm not looking at your URL, the source is the one true way, fwiw |
| 14:02.54 | Vivek | ``Erik: ahaa |
| 14:03.12 | Vivek | I was looking for a install or readme file :) |
| 14:03.25 | ``Erik | we have both an INSTALL and a README |
| 14:03.34 | d-lo | like I said, You downloaded a Binary dist, so 'cd' over to whereveryouuntarredit/rel-7.12.2/bin/ and try running 'mged' |
| 14:04.14 | Vivek | So can you point me to the URL to download the latest souce :) |
| 14:04.34 | ``Erik | being a 30 year old program, we install to /usr/brlcad/ by default, old school unix style, yo |
| 14:05.00 | Vivek | ``Erik: ok... |
| 14:05.06 | ``Erik | yes, the sourceforge page has a link to the latest source, it's like 7.14.0 or something |
| 14:05.12 | d-lo | latest tarball of source: http://sourceforge.net/project/showfiles.php?group_id=105292&package_id=113368 |
| 14:05.36 | d-lo | or you can get a SVN checkout if you want the latest (perhaps not greatest ;) ) |
| 14:06.53 | Vivek | ``Erik and d-lo: Thanks |
| 14:08.47 | d-lo | np |
| 14:09.48 | Vivek | oops I had downloaded the binary earlier ;) |
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| 15:41.23 | starseeker | struggles back to something one might generously call awake and heads in |
| 15:41.46 | starseeker | mmm, purty snow |
| 15:41.51 | starseeker | this should be entertaining |
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| 18:25.10 | CIA-32 | BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r33611 10/brlcad/trunk/ (11 files in 4 dirs): Added the following functions to libged: ged_grid2model_lu, ged_grid2view_lu, ged_model2grid_lu, ged_model2view_lu, ged_view2grid_lu, ged_view2model_lu and ged_view2model_vec. |
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| 21:56.37 | brlcad | mm.. today was much better, that was fairly useful or at least interesting |
| 21:57.46 | brlcad | d-lo: that's one of those places where just using libpkg as the underlying transport will save a lot of work |
| 21:58.17 | brlcad | it's a fairly extensively tested codebase as it is that already parcels up and delivers data across a pipe through a fairly simple interface |
| 21:59.19 | brlcad | and it takes care of all of the portability issues that you won't encounter (tcp issues, drop outs, splits, kernel/system buffering, signals, etc) just testing on a couple platforms |
| 22:02.12 | brlcad | also, fwiw, our INSTALL file is in both the source and binary dists (in binary it's in share/brlcad/VERSION/doc/INSTALL iirc, otherwise the http svn URL helps) |
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