| 00:57.15 | *** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=mariodot@bas2-sudbury98-1177726537.dsl.bell.ca) |
| 05:30.19 | *** join/#brlcad PrezKennedy (i=Matthew@whitecalf.net) |
| 06:24.46 | *** join/#brlcad Ralith (n=ralith@216.162.199.202) |
| 08:25.12 | *** join/#brlcad clock_ (n=clock@84-72-91-240.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
| 09:03.38 | *** join/#brlcad redvsblue (i=Pandora@c-69-247-220-102.hsd1.mo.comcast.net) |
| 09:20.10 | *** join/#brlcad mafm (n=mafm@172.Red-83-45-253.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net) |
| 09:26.19 | mafm | hi |
| 10:58.49 | *** join/#brlcad sporty_ (n=z@217.118.79.41) |
| 10:59.19 | sporty_ | hello? |
| 10:59.40 | *** join/#brlcad Ralith (n=ralith@216.162.199.202) |
| 10:59.51 | sporty | hello, Ralith |
| 11:00.12 | Ralith | hi |
| 11:00.20 | Ralith | also gnight |
| 11:02.09 | sporty | Ralith: right, it's an evening. |
| 11:07.09 | claymore | Morning all! |
| 11:09.15 | *** join/#brlcad sporty (n=z@217.118.79.41) |
| 11:16.29 | sporty | Ralith: what time? |
| 11:17.20 | sporty | adequate offset from your time =: my time! |
| 11:22.57 | claymore | sporty: East coast Usa to Russia is 8 hours time difference (aka you are 8 ahead) |
| 11:23.18 | sporty | 8 ahead or 8 before? |
| 11:23.30 | claymore | (aka you are 8 ahead) |
| 11:23.36 | sporty | you have another date then! |
| 11:24.04 | sporty | i read morning starts at Jaapan |
| 11:24.32 | sporty | i'm gmt +7 |
| 11:25.53 | sporty | claymore: i'm about 12 hours ahead - let me help you: tell me what do you need to know 12 hours ago! |
| 11:26.03 | claymore | is it 2:25 in the afternoon there? |
| 11:26.32 | sporty | claymore: tell me what do you know in future - to send it to "past you" |
| 11:26.48 | sporty | it is 6;00 p.m. |
| 11:27.47 | sporty | claymore: you have an unique chance! i'm few hours ahead! tell me what do you need to know few hours ago! |
| 11:28.06 | sporty | it's 6:25 i think |
| 11:29.41 | sporty | claymore: I have an evening of your morning then? Or do you have a morning of my evening? |
| 11:30.25 | claymore | sporty: are you in moscow? |
| 11:30.44 | sporty | claymore: in gmt +7, Moscow is gmt +7 |
| 11:30.58 | sporty | Moscow is gmt +4 |
| 11:31.18 | sporty | i'm like Bangkok |
| 11:31.23 | claymore | very strange then. every online calculator is telling me its 2:30 pm in Moscow. |
| 11:31.31 | claymore | checked three now. |
| 11:32.18 | claymore | .... how could you not see the difference between 2:30 in the afternoon and 6:30 in the evening so close to winter? Seems like night and day :) Do you stay indoors all day? |
| 11:32.30 | sporty | claymore: right, Moscow has 3:30 and I have 6:30 p.m. |
| 11:32.47 | claymore | oh, I thought you were in Moscow. Where are you then? |
| 11:32.50 | sporty | claymore: no |
| 11:34.24 | sporty | claymore: same meridian as Bangkok, south of Russia. 2 hours drive on car and I'm in those south mountains. The more south - the more it Himalayases me. |
| 11:35.21 | sporty | the city of steel workers, coal miners, and <!-- karamba --> |
| 11:36.06 | sporty | seriously, i'm too close to Japan time, which is too close to West Canadian or Alaskan time |
| 11:36.18 | claymore | Mongolia? |
| 11:36.32 | sporty | claymore: no, Russia |
| 11:36.49 | sporty | claymore: :-{ |
| 11:37.15 | claymore | i thought you said you were 2 hours south of russia.... and on the Bangkok meridian.. thats Mongolia... *confused* |
| 11:37.48 | sporty | i think time is a juridical fiction |
| 11:37.52 | sporty | claymore: i meant parallel then ? |
| 11:38.02 | sporty | meridian & parallels |
| 11:38.30 | claymore | So are you close to Irkustk? |
| 11:38.40 | sporty | right |
| 11:38.42 | sporty | close |
| 11:39.10 | sporty | but Irkutsk, not Irkustk |
| 11:39.26 | claymore | lol whooops. Fat fingers :) |
| 11:39.28 | sporty | it is an hour away from me |
| 11:39.36 | claymore | Angarsk? |
| 11:40.03 | sporty | claymore: Novokuznetsk, i'm from www.sibsiu.ru university |
| 11:41.39 | claymore | Wow, Irkutsk is only an hour away? You must drive VERY fast :) |
| 11:41.42 | sporty | claymore: if London is a zero gmt, and day begins in Japan - then time is a fiction and this fourth dimension do not really exists! (For that one who moves ) |
| 11:42.10 | sporty | claymore: no, an hour away in juridical time zones |
| 11:42.23 | claymore | Time is a man made concept. Its the only way our feeble brains can fathom why everything doesn't happen all at once. :) |
| 11:43.01 | sporty | claymore: you have a morning of my evening then? |
| 11:43.17 | claymore | I i get it :) Just by eyeballing the map, it looks to be ~1000 km :) |
| 11:43.20 | archivist | as a clockmaker I say time is real |
| 11:43.21 | sporty | claymore: what time? |
| 11:43.43 | sporty | claymore: ok |
| 11:43.43 | claymore | Sure am. Send the sun over a bit quicker though, its kinda rainy and depressing. need some sun :) |
| 11:44.06 | claymore | Oh time exists archivist, but only because we say it does. :) |
| 11:44.16 | sporty | right |
| 11:44.34 | sporty | i'm eating in another room |
| 11:44.39 | claymore | Much like distance... it exists, but there are difference measures to a constant. |
| 11:45.43 | archivist | I fighting with a non working clock atm |
| 11:45.59 | claymore | what type? |
| 11:46.29 | archivist | a Merlin band clock |
| 11:47.25 | claymore | sweet :) |
| 11:49.02 | archivist | less sweet when badly made |
| 11:49.17 | claymore | sporty: My word Russia is a big place. I have only been to Murmansk/Severomorsk and just have never taken the time to look at a map of Russia and take in to account the map Key ..... |
| 11:49.38 | claymore | archivist: but still neat. Well, at least for me since I am not trying to fix it :D |
| 11:49.54 | archivist | had to remake parts |
| 12:01.04 | claymore | watched Batman: Dark Knight last night..... not as good as Batman Begins, but Heath's performance as the Joker was superb, imho. |
| 12:03.26 | sporty | claymore: say a word about Mrs.Batman! |
| 12:04.09 | claymore | the wife and I were making bets as to which villian's will be in the next one. I am almost certain of the Riddler, but she's got her money on Catwoman. |
| 12:05.14 | sporty | claymore: say a word about Catwoman! |
| 12:07.34 | *** join/#brlcad elite01 (n=omg@unaffiliated/elite01) |
| 12:08.07 | sporty | claymore: my ate no-vegan fried in eggs+milk bread this time due to casualties. I wan to say i feel myself fatty life-looser. All the members of my body are full of this heavy things. Never more! |
| 12:08.55 | sporty | elite01: do you need QCad or CAM Expert - licensed, for some verification of automatic translation, Fr and De ?? |
| 12:09.24 | sporty | elite01: QCad and/or CAM Expert is what i meant |
| 12:09.59 | elite01 | eeh no idea |
| 12:10.03 | sporty | ``Erik: we had a nice discussion last time, you were a good guy |
| 12:10.06 | sporty | ha-ha! |
| 12:10.10 | elite01 | what kind of automatic translation? i'm puzzled |
| 12:10.39 | sporty | elite01: just edit e.g. |
| 12:10.46 | sporty | elite01: wait a minute |
| 12:11.00 | elite01 | i shouldn't be editing the xml files you sent me? |
| 12:11.09 | elite01 | *shouldn't i |
| 12:11.27 | sporty | elite01: it are different |
| 12:12.34 | CIA-6 | BRL-CAD: 03davidloman * r33334 10/rt^3/trunk/ (57 files in 19 dirs): Added a simple C++ sockets library (socketcc) and a simple C++ wrapper around the pthreads library (pthreadcc). Added into the build system. Fixed a few svn:ignores here and there throughout the rt^3 dir heirarchy. |
| 12:14.32 | sporty | elite01: http://www.ribbonsoft.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=1808 |
| 12:15.08 | sporty | elite01: this, read commented source of the pages at http://www.ribbonsoft.com/camexpert/manual_reference/ru/ |
| 12:15.42 | sporty | elite01: it is only if your skilled job need drawings |
| 12:19.52 | elite01 | ah, no, i don't really have any use for it |
| 12:20.07 | sporty | elite01: so never mind it |
| 12:22.41 | sporty | elite01: how are you with that files? I think you need some wine in cold Saturday evening - this is a source of kind words |
| 12:23.38 | elite01 | sounds like a plan :) |
| 12:23.49 | elite01 | i just translated a few short summaries so far |
| 12:23.53 | elite01 | i'm a little low on time |
| 12:25.14 | sporty | elite01: i'm too. I need to read lots of info - that's why i wanted to ask starseeker when will he implement this to server |
| 12:25.48 | sporty | elite01: i think i will translate it at weekends. |
| 12:26.11 | sporty | 1-2 hours of fast typing work - that's all |
| 12:27.48 | elite01 | hm, yeah |
| 12:28.02 | sporty | elite01: yup |
| 12:28.17 | elite01 | as in one boring physics lecture :) |
| 12:28.36 | sporty | elite01: right |
| 12:28.39 | *** join/#brlcad clock_ (n=clock@84-72-91-240.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
| 12:28.51 | sporty | elite01: You knew it! |
| 12:29.00 | elite01 | hehe |
| 12:31.50 | sporty | elite01: if you study physics, don't let your talent to go far: try something in www.geuz.org/getdp and www.geuz.org/gmsh, or e.g. www.freefem.org - this helps to remember formulae! |
| 12:32.48 | elite01 | hehe, luckily, i don't study physics :D |
| 12:32.55 | elite01 | not as a main course |
| 12:34.28 | sporty | elite01: architecture or mechanics? |
| 12:35.34 | elite01 | electrical engineering :) |
| 12:39.11 | sporty | elite01: try GMSH and GetDP then |
| 12:42.10 | elite01 | ook, thanks |
| 12:43.39 | sporty | elite01: it is more easy right at the moment - when you study this formulas. You also can discuss it with teachers and involve it into your term work |
| 12:45.18 | elite01 | alright, i'll take a look at it |
| 12:45.34 | clock_ | tarzeau: gehst du snoebere? |
| 12:46.38 | sporty | clock_: gehst! |
| 12:50.30 | sporty | elite01: it's about fem | fea - they can e.g. visualize the current in a mafnetron or model an electric machines. FEM | FEA for mechanics differs: it's separated from the physics to reliability and longevity. Forms & sizes of the details are in questions |
| 12:52.14 | sporty | brl-cad is a fast way to create geometry, the only way to manage complicated toologies on 'usual' pc with mean price |
| 12:58.48 | sporty | it's cruel: "i wanna play ultima online using razor" me: "razor probably don't want to play with you ;)" |
| 13:14.03 | sporty | hello? |
| 13:14.48 | claymore | hai! |
| 13:15.25 | sporty | claymore: hi! |
| 13:17.59 | sporty | so how do ya? |
| 13:18.01 | sporty | claymore: what time? |
| 13:18.01 | sporty | i have no watches in my computer... |
| 13:18.23 | claymore | 0818 my time |
| 13:18.39 | claymore | so..... 2018 your time. (I think) |
| 13:18.49 | sporty | claymore: morning? right! |
| 13:19.16 | sporty | "i don't care, baby, i'm not scared" |
| 13:20.27 | sporty | claymore: i still can send you important info from 'future you' to 'morning you'. |
| 13:21.17 | claymore | nah, nothing I really need to know. Thanks though. |
| 13:21.36 | sporty | As e.g. "Hello, claymore, i'm an 'evening claymore' - and i want to say: Don't eat that cheeseburger - or you will be half-a-pound heavier at the evening!" |
| 13:22.33 | claymore | Oh, no cheezeburgers for me. Big ol bowl of Beef stew! |
| 13:22.56 | sporty | cheeseburger <> applesuburban |
| 13:23.08 | sporty | antonyms ... |
| 13:23.42 | sporty | stew is a kid from griFfins |
| 13:23.56 | claymore | is that a book? |
| 13:24.21 | sporty | claymore: antonyms? applesuburban? Griffins? |
| 13:25.18 | sporty | Griffins = Family Guy |
| 13:25.26 | sporty | tv cartoon series |
| 13:25.55 | claymore | You lost me. I don't watch that one. Don't really watch any cartoons anymore. |
| 13:26.58 | sporty | "If you see grass in a pile, it is probably a compost bed." - the folks' poroverb |
| 13:27.45 | sporty | ..or AI, made upon a perl |
| 13:27.52 | claymore | Whats that have to do with the average airspeed of a laden South European Swallow? |
| 13:28.14 | clock_ | bin laden? |
| 13:29.01 | claymore | No. Not him. My post was just a joke. |
| 13:29.03 | sporty | ah?.. I just write sings like this: "Be a kind human of the world, yeah!" |
| 13:29.34 | claymore | I figured since you were being totally random, so would I :) |
| 13:29.55 | sporty | i was, heh... :) |
| 13:30.44 | sporty | âIt's nice to be important, but it's more important to be nice!â - Scooter's Move Your As5 |
| 13:31.22 | claymore | Did 'Scooter' do a song called 'Fire' ? |
| 13:31.42 | sporty | This my is my favourite: "Since all the words are just a vanity bag, shut up!" |
| 13:31.45 | sporty | claymore: yes |
| 13:32.27 | claymore | thought so. |
| 13:37.35 | sporty | Scooter has a nice thong "I'm Raving" - "...and do you really feel the way I feel?" |
| 13:38.01 | sporty | amd e.g. "Fate" |
| 13:38.12 | claymore | Unless Scooter is a chick, I don't wanna hear about any thongs! |
| 13:38.54 | sporty | claymore: hungry? |
| 13:40.02 | claymore | had a long night and is enjoying Beef Stew :) |
| 13:40.09 | sporty | claymore: "Roasted Apples", bananasuburban (as cheeseburger), grape juice, some green salad |
| 13:40.33 | sporty | ok |
| 13:40.51 | claymore | doesn't know what bananasuburban is... |
| 13:41.12 | sporty | banasuburban is kind of a raw vegan cheesburger |
| 13:41.21 | sporty | *bananasuburban |
| 13:41.40 | claymore | ~bananasuburban |
| 13:41.46 | claymore | :/ |
| 13:41.50 | sporty | banana <> cheese, suburban <> burger |
| 13:41.51 | claymore | talk to me ibot. |
| 13:42.23 | claymore | doesn't sound very good, actually. |
| 13:42.34 | sporty | claymore: you're not a comuter jeday, ha-ha! |
| 13:42.46 | claymore | If I want to eat a banana, I'll eat a banana. |
| 13:43.10 | sporty | claymore: why? It's like "Come on get a banasuburban!" |
| 13:43.35 | claymore | I have had vegan stuff before and didn't like very much of it. |
| 13:44.19 | claymore | But, as far as you have described it to me, bananasuburban is a banana on bread. |
| 13:44.34 | sporty | claymore: anyway, even the formula """vegan + sometimes a coffee""" is better than "80% steamed vegan ration + coffee + roasts-toasts-meats" |
| 13:45.08 | sporty | claymore: no, real vegan is e.g. fruit salad with veggy oil |
| 13:45.12 | claymore | i completely disagree. |
| 13:46.28 | claymore | Some parts of the world, like mine, do not have access to enough of the required fresh veggies to support a healthy vegitarian diet without suppliments. |
| 13:46.54 | claymore | As it is, I have to take iron suppliments because I choose to keep my red meat intake low. |
| 13:47.09 | sporty | claymore: well, i had problems with health - i have to e.g. look for chances something will be "diluted" in my organism when i'm on right ration - i mean e.g. those secondary trash at backbone and so on. Rode bike withing 5 hours at -15 celsius in thin gloves. Greatest metabolism ever. |
| 13:47.22 | claymore | So, I disagree with 'vegan is better'. |
| 13:48.03 | claymore | Vegan might work for some people, but not all. |
| 13:48.54 | sporty | claymore: i have only 3 month of summer - and i have only carrot, potato, apples (too little amount for a while) - any grass-like stuff as e.g. dry parsley, dendelion leaves and so on, beetroots, cucumbers (summer 'juicing') - and so on |
| 13:50.54 | sporty | claymore: vegan works after e.g. 6 months on such a diet - when your ferments can "forget" about the meat. "Grandeur disillusion FRME (for recent meat-eaters)" - this how this phenomenon is called! |
| 13:51.31 | sporty | claymore: we buy banana 1 usd per 1 lb |
| 13:51.48 | sporty | ah! |
| 13:52.02 | sporty | aaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhh! |
| 13:52.11 | sporty | claymore: can you hear me? |
| 13:52.17 | sporty | aaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhh!!!!!!!!!!!!!111111 |
| 13:52.37 | claymore | and I would be willing to bet that if the quality of the foods you eat are high enough, aka enough iron, then your can easily handle a vegan diet without fear of anemia. |
| 13:52.44 | sporty | RRRRRRRRaaaaaaaaaaaaaaazzzzzzzzzzzzzzz! |
| 13:53.32 | sporty | claymore: actually, it are my own organic veggies - grown upon a compost! |
| 13:53.56 | claymore | however, the foods available to me are pretty low in iron, so I need to either take suppliements or have the occasional raw meat. |
| 13:54.43 | claymore | So, again, vegan doesn't work for everyone. |
| 13:55.13 | sporty | claymore: the true: "After long-term raw vegan I can easily say if this food contain necessary for me micro-elements or not - just like a rat!" |
| 13:55.39 | claymore | I really have no idea what you just ment by that.... |
| 13:57.12 | sporty | e.g. when you're hungry, you can think: "Aha, i don't really want nuts - at least at the evening. I want some apples rifgt now - two acid ones, three with soft taste a bit later. I may want to cut these soft apples and mix it with veggy oil and some dry parsley." |
| 13:57.12 | claymore | But if a vegan diet works for you, then good for you. |
| 13:57.35 | sporty | claymore: no one has died from being vegan, and raw vegan |
| 13:59.17 | claymore | sporty: I beg to differ. There are quite a few cases of vegetarians developing chronic anemia and have died from infections. |
| 13:59.47 | claymore | however, in all fairness, vegans are not the only ones prone to anemia. |
| 14:00.06 | claymore | Also: A vegans die... just like non vegans. |
| 14:00.32 | sporty | claymore: it works for me, right. But, it can work for anyone. Just keep in mind strict raw vegan course when you will die from disease. I had problems. It is something weird when you feel this taste of bananas you ate two days ago in a mouth - dirty food do the same - but you can not feel dirty foods when you're not a raw vegan. |
| 14:01.07 | claymore | So, if you firmly believe that the diet you subject yourself to is the best for you, great! However, i know for a fact that it will *not* work for everyone. Such a generality is very narrow minded indeed. |
| 14:01.27 | sporty | claymore: no, i mean "general" cases - when some kids stop to feel bad since they go vegan (no bread) and so on |
| 14:03.31 | claymore | Vegans don't eat bread? That I don't understand. |
| 14:04.50 | sporty | claymore: people have no time and efforts to do everything rightly! On the third-fourth week of the vegan diet you start to feel so-called crisis - when e.g. you feel skin scratches and so on. Good soft diet as "Milk+fruits+veggies" till the end! |
| 14:05.52 | sporty | claymore: vegan dies from bread, to be correct. Meat is better, than any gluten intake |
| 14:07.31 | claymore | .... um you do realize that bread contains zero animal products.... right? If one chooses not to eat bread... than that has nothing to do with Veganism. |
| 14:08.39 | claymore | WHat? A vegan dies from bread? Thats just plain silly. |
| 14:09.03 | sporty | claymore: ~gluten, ~celiac disease |
| 14:09.04 | sporty | ok, let's have a meet at e.g. 2080 at Alaska: i will have come on a bike, though even snow - and you will be cute old guy, who will be so weak as old guys are! |
| 14:09.09 | sporty | ah, just try since people say |
| 14:11.05 | sporty | claymore: bread isn't a human food, that's all |
| 14:11.10 | sporty | claymore: vegans are bad vegans if thet ***had not unintentionally stopped to eat bread*** - e.g. on the third year after they'd stopped to use meat and eggs in their ration |
| 14:11.27 | claymore | heh, right. If you make it to 2080, then you're on. lol. |
| 14:11.37 | sporty | claymore: it's not a theory, all what i say about are testimonials. |
| 14:12.26 | claymore | Bread is too a human food. Bread has been around since the begining, way back when people lived much longer than we do now... and yet bread is not a 'human' food? lol. |
| 14:13.01 | sporty | claymore: then, ok, we have a meeting! in 2080, somewhere |
| 14:13.31 | sporty | claymore: you will bursting with envy! |
| 14:13.40 | claymore | I am begining to think that what your definition of vegan is a bit off from mine/the internet's |
| 14:14.05 | sporty | claymore: no, it happens due to feodalism (to store & supply with cereals is easier) and e.g. climate changes |
| 14:14.16 | claymore | Well, If i live to be 113 then I probably won't care about you or your veggies :) |
| 14:14.39 | sporty | claymore: mine is "raw vegan - or at least a vegan" |
| 14:15.11 | sporty | Alexander Chuprun 's book, Canadian Young Street Journal, or e.g. www.naturfood.net |
| 14:15.40 | sporty | there's english pages |
| 14:16.09 | claymore | Well now, Raw Vegan != Vegan. Thats something entirely different. |
| 14:17.33 | sporty | no, vegan = stop to eat meat & eggs. |
| 14:17.43 | alex_joni | that's vegeterian |
| 14:18.13 | alex_joni | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Veganism <- for vegan |
| 14:18.20 | claymore | Veganism has more to do with the unethical use of animals as food than it does health benefits. |
| 14:18.23 | sporty | right vegan = some background as e.g. "wait 6 month - then you wil digest vegan food better, NO bread" |
| 14:18.43 | sporty | alex_joni: wiki has too conform pages |
| 14:19.01 | claymore | Vegans eat bread. Raw vegans do not.... per my interactions with them and what information is available on the internet. |
| 14:19.43 | sporty | claymore: no, raw vegans "tried to eat soaked cereals" - but "when stopped, felt better" |
| 14:20.07 | sporty | i think http://www.naturfood.net/english/ - i can not use http traffic at the moment |
| 14:20.39 | claymore | Then, again, your geographical area's ideas of a Vegan/Raw Vegan differ from mine. |
| 14:21.01 | claymore | Where i come from Vegans eat bread and Raw Vegans do not. |
| 14:21.15 | sporty | claymore: i live in a cold place. |
| 14:22.00 | sporty | we seed at may, harvest at september - that's all! |
| 14:22.23 | sporty | i like raw potato - and many like it. |
| 14:22.40 | sporty | *plant* |
| 14:23.13 | claymore | Whats that have to do with Bread? Raw Vegan's (according to my neighbors) don't eat anything cooked above 100 degrees F (Ithink)... and that includes bread. Vegans eat bread a plenty. |
| 14:23.44 | sporty | ok, i think i had good practice in english this day, let me gain some money - and in 2080 i will meet old claymore, in 2500 i will be a president of US! |
| 14:24.07 | claymore | I like potatoes also, very occasionally raw. Depending on the area of the world you live, thats an invitiation for death. |
| 14:24.07 | sporty | above 54 celsius degree, right |
| 14:24.54 | claymore | 2080 and 2500 eh? Well they will probably have you locked up by the end of the year if you keep spouting statements like that ;) |
| 14:25.02 | sporty | claymore: bread caused me headaches since 5 to 22 years old. I din't know a reason! |
| 14:25.23 | claymore | You probably have an allergy of some sort. |
| 14:25.25 | sporty | claymore: right, comrade! |
| 14:25.50 | sporty | i'm about an underground, dear revolutioner! |
| 14:27.04 | claymore | You are definetly unique. I mean that. |
| 14:27.16 | sporty | claymore: no, it was an excess of a gluten - this mucus like thing can also cause asthma... I feel, and i feel good, it's understood. And sometimes i'm sad, i'm sad and i want my dad |
| 14:27.48 | claymore | just experienced a Dr Suess moment. |
| 14:27.59 | sporty | claymore: have you played Grim Fandango ?? |
| 14:28.28 | sporty | it's a quest |
| 14:28.32 | claymore | Nope. A friend did... and i decided that it didn't look fun. |
| 14:28.37 | sporty | on pc, from '99 |
| 14:28.57 | sporty | but i didn't know english and it seemed cool |
| 14:29.59 | claymore | Final Fantasy 1-13 is more to my liking. That and occasion game of AOE or Civ |
| 14:30.21 | sporty | i don't know this games. |
| 14:30.48 | claymore | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Final_Fantasy |
| 14:30.54 | sporty | claymore: do yu know "Dr. Metcaff" ? '98 game on ps, horrible quest? |
| 14:31.12 | claymore | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Age_of_Empires |
| 14:31.33 | claymore | http://www.civilization.com/ |
| 14:31.40 | sporty | claymore: i saw game, but hadn't played - and my "http traffic" is a "http spot" this time of the day |
| 14:32.01 | sporty | claymore: it are non-cheap games |
| 14:32.26 | claymore | sporty: can't say that I have ever heard of Dr Metcaff |
| 14:32.29 | sporty | cheap game: spot, bmx, girl, 5ex |
| 14:32.38 | sporty | claymore: ok |
| 14:32.55 | claymore | just curious... how old are you sporty |
| 14:33.16 | sporty | ah, 24 jack's as5 |
| 14:33.25 | sporty | and you? |
| 14:33.25 | claymore | pardon? |
| 14:33.35 | claymore | turning 31 this year |
| 14:34.09 | sporty | well, to be brave, 24 - but all the thoughts and interest are about the bikes, snowboard and so on |
| 14:34.18 | sporty | claymore: ok |
| 14:34.45 | sporty | claymore: shall I write sir claymore ? ;) |
| 14:35.25 | claymore | Go right ahead. |
| 14:35.51 | claymore | Don't forget to govel before your superior thought. |
| 14:36.03 | claymore | *grovel |
| 14:36.20 | sporty | 31 is a pretty awful. what if i will have to say someone on bmx: "i'm 31" Awful... No, it will have not happened! I stop the time! |
| 14:36.46 | sporty | claymore: ok |
| 14:37.28 | sporty | claymore: so, only 30-40 years to come? Time to think about the raw vegan! |
| 14:38.02 | claymore | Heh, well, its all about choices. Me? The last BMX i rode was the one I had when i was... um... 10. i grew out of those and got a big boy bike :P |
| 14:38.39 | claymore | sporty: Raw Vegan? Heh, not likely. That would bring about my demise much faster than 30-40 years. |
| 14:40.12 | sporty | claymore: you probably have a machine, producing a juice from carrot, apples, oranges? Use ati-oxidant from fruits & vegetables. It produces good breast & Co. Study children to love vegan foods. To be true, i have no idea what to do after work except bicycle or e.g. snwbrd in winter. |
| 14:40.50 | sporty | claymore: mind me in your demise, i will mind you - let's see who's right! |
| 14:41.03 | claymore | My family's diet is superb, thank you very much. |
| 14:41.38 | sporty | claymore: ok, but "armoured" means "protected"! |
| 14:42.46 | claymore | My oldest son could count to 250 when he was 30 months old and was doing basic arithmetic by 3. he is of the perfect height and weight and always has been. He is not a vegan. |
| 14:43.22 | claymore | So, to be honest, its a bit presuptious of you to automaticly think you know how to improve my family's health. |
| 14:44.21 | sporty | claymore: i mean e.g. cancer or problems with veins. Food theme is rather more intimate than e.g. words about the relations in the family. |
| 14:44.40 | claymore | If you want something to do after work, help out the common man. Volunteer at a local homeless shelter or soup kitchen. |
| 14:44.59 | sporty | claymore: rather to preserve since it usually goes down at 12 years old |
| 14:45.41 | claymore | Both my wife and I are very familiar with our family's health history and are on the watch for any of the genetic 'hand me downs' |
| 14:46.05 | claymore | I take it you have a child that is older than 12? |
| 14:46.55 | sporty | claymore: we have no it. I also have two backbone's breaks at different places (before i were 10) - so i'm in the situation painkillers vs. interest+sport when i'm behind pc. |
| 14:47.27 | claymore | so you have trouble sitting for long periods of time? |
| 14:47.50 | sporty | claymore: no, even doctors admit it. |
| 14:47.59 | claymore | admit what? |
| 14:48.29 | sporty | yes, but since i'm raw vegan - everything is ok - when i pay a time to do some sport as i;ve used to |
| 14:49.08 | sporty | admit that people start to "age" since 12 |
| 14:50.03 | sporty | these days i break my diet. All the same it was before - so strict raw vegans cures virtually all, just believe. |
| 14:50.22 | claymore | So... you broke your backbone twice as a child, and now that you have pain after sitting at a PC for long periods of time, you think the Raw Vegan lifestyle compensates? |
| 14:50.24 | alex_joni | some people used to say that about religion |
| 14:50.52 | claymore | alex_joni: use to say 'what' about religeon? |
| 14:50.57 | claymore | *religion |
| 14:51.26 | sporty | alex_joni: come on! religion is virtual, but i usually eat 4-9 puonds of raw vegan stuff a day! This what drives the health |
| 14:51.46 | sporty | claymore: that it cures |
| 14:52.11 | claymore | Okay, so what if studies have shown that a humans body begins to age at the 12 year point.... there still is no conclusive data to support the statement 'a vegan lifestyle makes you live longer'. nor is there anything conclusive to an opposite statement. |
| 14:52.17 | sporty | i can believe in sporty resilient women, which cures, though! |
| 14:52.22 | alex_joni | claymore: " strict raw vegans cures virtually all, just believe." |
| 14:53.18 | sporty | claymore: vegan style = more sport, more kiddish interests, more simple relations -> less nerves and so no, and so on |
| 14:53.35 | claymore | alex_joni: that does draw in interesting parallel. Since most (if not all) religions are based on faith (aka believing the scientificly unproveable) then the whole Vegan vs Non-vegan debate is also about faith... since nothing has been proven yet. interesting. |
| 14:53.53 | alex_joni | claymore: that's what I meant |
| 14:54.13 | claymore | alex_joni: That was me thinking with my keyboard... sorry :) |
| 14:54.49 | sporty | alex_joni: but i say i feel better when on raw vegan - i can cycling and not sit e.g. 30 minutes or so t the start |
| 14:55.14 | claymore | sporty: You still confuse me. Having an active lifestyle has nothing to do with being a Vegan... its just a smart thing to do to keep your body in shape. |
| 14:55.38 | sporty | ah, never mind long-haul debates - it is usually a fake! |
| 14:56.16 | sporty | claymore: when you sport, you need to be sure your veins pump good content |
| 14:56.28 | sporty | *pumping up |
| 14:57.41 | claymore | Good health = excerise >4 times a week, and monitor the quality and quantity of food you eat. period. |
| 14:58.09 | sporty | you may have e.g. a varicosis if you *have to * stay at work - on the legs after meattish ration, in the lower part of the belly - after bread-dish ration |
| 14:58.14 | claymore | I know quite a few Vegans who are in excellent health. I also know quite a few Non-Vegans who are also in excellent health. |
| 14:58.44 | claymore | Longevity of a persons life is determined by millions of variables... only one of which is the food they eat. |
| 14:58.56 | sporty | claymore: meat > bread - better than bread |
| 14:59.15 | claymore | So directly relating long life to the food you eat is foolish at best. |
| 15:00.01 | claymore | meat > bread? I disagree. They are both equally important to a balanced diet. When consumed in correct portions of course. |
| 15:00.15 | sporty | claymore: then i meant whole lyfestyle when i said about the longevity. E.g. TYou eat fruit salad when you hungry - just like young boy, not like "adult president of a firm" |
| 15:00.41 | claymore | ...... what? |
| 15:01.28 | sporty | claymore: Sir Claymore |
| 15:01.33 | sporty | :) |
| 15:01.45 | claymore | Thats better. Now kneel. |
| 15:01.51 | sporty | can't type anymore |
| 15:02.06 | sporty | kneekicks claymore |
| 15:02.29 | sporty | Sir Higher Sporty |
| 15:02.48 | claymore | i'll agree with the 'high' part. |
| 15:02.56 | claymore | :D |
| 15:03.28 | sporty | claymore: how about Discovery? Bear Grills? I mean rather non-complicated foods than any theory then |
| 15:04.08 | sporty | claymore: so how about to eat fruit salad? Do you like it? |
| 15:04.10 | claymore | Discovery.... the TV channel? .... the NASA orbiter? |
| 15:04.22 | sporty | claymore: yes, tv channel |
| 15:04.30 | claymore | I love fruit salad. In fact, I have some here to do with lunch. |
| 15:04.45 | claymore | What is 'Bear Grills' ? |
| 15:04.54 | claymore | to do = to go |
| 15:05.46 | sporty | claymore: what if you eat it today with some veggy oil to get fats, and tomorrow, and later? What will happen? Almost nothing! But you will be full of energy after few months |
| 15:06.09 | sporty | claymore: Extremal Surviaval Guide. |
| 15:06.13 | claymore | I am full of energy right now. Who said I wasn't? |
| 15:06.37 | claymore | Never seen that show. |
| 15:07.06 | claymore | I have saw a commercial or two, but I generally don't watch too much tv. Way too much to do around the house. |
| 15:07.32 | sporty | claymore: well, i know a source of a very inspiring words, and i have done it - i know what they say about, that's all. Nothing to do with talks and debates. Debates are always a fake, remember it. |
| 15:08.15 | claymore | Debates are only worthless if one of the sides has a closed mind. Otherwise they are very VERY worthwhile. |
| 15:08.20 | sporty | claymore: but i look it whilst the routin work behind pc, as e.g. awaiting the results and so on |
| 15:08.46 | sporty | claymore: but i have not inspirited you to evan try |
| 15:09.02 | sporty | i.e. it wasn't worthwhile |
| 15:09.23 | claymore | and that just proves that you either didn't listen to what I had to say, or didn't understand. |
| 15:10.28 | claymore | My wife and I have already tried as much of a vegetarian diet as we possibly can without running the risk of health problems. This is based on the foods available to us and our family's health history. |
| 15:11.01 | claymore | If the point of any 'diet' is to keep your body as healthy as possible, then thats exactly what we are doing. |
| 15:11.18 | claymore | Veganism is not the ONLY diet that promotes good health. |
| 15:11.47 | claymore | There is no conclusive studies to show if any specific diet is better than another. |
| 15:12.08 | sporty | claymore: i want to say raw vegan is a bit more than any human can write about. It's like... you feel a dick, you can end up some task withing 10 days and ten nights with no being tired and so on. Another way of metabolism, great changes in the organism. Later, you discover the changes past/now. And feel a fear that something can go back. Not much from theories actually. |
| 15:12.34 | claymore | If you honestly believe that Veganism is the best for you, then thats just fine! But don't presume to know that you know what is best for anyone other than yourself. |
| 15:13.07 | sporty | claymore: ok |
| 15:13.25 | sporty | claymore: but i still can offer it |
| 15:13.42 | claymore | sporty: No need to offer when its already been considered. |
| 15:13.51 | claymore | .... and partially implemented. |
| 15:14.29 | sporty | claymore: ok |
| 15:16.57 | sporty | will watch Tv and drink cocoa with milk since i break my diet these days. I wish i feel myself as best as before. Or i would finish current goals behind PC twice a faster! |
| 15:18.50 | claymore | So stop wishing and make it happen Vegan man! |
| 15:22.04 | claymore | You sure aren't gonna make it to 2080 and be able to laugh at me when you are sucking down Hot Cocoa while sitting on your butt watching TV! Remove the chair from your PC desk and jog in place while you work the Translations for BRL-CAD! |
| 15:22.12 | claymore | :D |
| 15:22.32 | claymore | I wanna see 30 mins joggin in place. Begin. |
| 15:23.11 | clock_ | claymore: I don't even have a chair on PC. I have a stationary bicycle instead of it |
| 15:23.20 | clock_ | claymore: so I can either stand, or sit on a stationary bike, or pedal the bike |
| 15:23.34 | claymore | does it power the electric generator that runs your computer? That's my idea of dedication! |
| 15:23.46 | clock_ | yes it did before the overvoltage protection blew |
| 15:23.50 | clock_ | now I have to design a better one |
| 15:24.03 | claymore | lol |
| 15:24.04 | clock_ | I will not run my PC again without overvoltage protection |
| 15:24.18 | clock_ | I already gave 400V to my laptop when it's rated to max. 357V (rectified 240V) |
| 15:24.27 | claymore | no offense, but thats a given :) |
| 15:24.34 | clock_ | yesterday I tried a 60W 230V bulb on 400V |
| 15:24.41 | clock_ | It's so hot it shines almost blue |
| 15:24.42 | claymore | lol |
| 15:24.44 | clock_ | like an A-Bomb! |
| 15:24.59 | claymore | oh, an A-bomb is blue eh? |
| 15:25.12 | clock_ | dunno. But as bright :) |
| 15:25.23 | claymore | :) |
| 15:25.32 | claymore | VRs are super simple and cheap. |
| 15:25.37 | clock_ | what is it? |
| 15:25.47 | claymore | Voltage Regulators |
| 15:26.11 | clock_ | I need something bit different |
| 15:26.13 | claymore | especially if the load is moderately constant. |
| 15:26.20 | clock_ | a simple VR would expose the machine to dangerous level of dry-run voltage |
| 15:26.37 | claymore | depends on how you build it. |
| 15:26.57 | clock_ | it's a self excited induction generator |
| 15:27.08 | claymore | ac or dc? |
| 15:27.17 | clock_ | an asynchronous 3-phase sine wave generator working on the principle of resonant circuit between the winding inductance and excitation capacitance |
| 15:27.30 | clock_ | so it has tendency to produce tremendous amounts of power under certain conditions |
| 15:28.07 | claymore | ... that doesn't make sense. A generator only makes voltage. power output is a function of load on the line. |
| 15:28.35 | claymore | is assuming 50 or 60 hz? or is it a high freg gen? |
| 15:28.37 | clock_ | here the voltage increases exponentially until something goes |
| 15:28.44 | clock_ | normally the core saturates and starts heating |
| 15:28.49 | clock_ | 50 Hz |
| 15:28.56 | clock_ | 25-30 Hz at shaft |
| 15:29.06 | claymore | whats the prime mover>? |
| 15:29.12 | clock_ | stationary bicycle |
| 15:29.15 | claymore | lol |
| 15:29.16 | claymore | okay |
| 15:29.35 | clock_ | without load it goes easily over 500V |
| 15:29.36 | claymore | so its variable frequency out put with a max of ..... 50hz> |
| 15:29.38 | claymore | ? |
| 15:29.44 | clock_ | the caps also have some limited rating I don't want to blow them |
| 15:29.53 | clock_ | no it's a variable frequency without any max |
| 15:29.57 | clock_ | you can pedal as fast as you want |
| 15:30.18 | claymore | whats the use? aka, what is it powering? |
| 15:30.25 | clock_ | powering? |
| 15:30.31 | clock_ | the use is for fitness and fun |
| 15:30.52 | claymore | so if there is no load, then there is no problem with anything the generator does..... |
| 15:30.57 | clock_ | ah yeah sometiems I connect a soldering iron sometimes a light bulb sometimes a fluorescent, or a laptop |
| 15:31.07 | clock_ | well it self-destructs |
| 15:31.09 | sporty | claymore: ok, but i translate behind old American Chopper series |
| 15:31.20 | clock_ | the produced energy is used to destroy it's own electrical components |
| 15:31.25 | claymore | so the various loads are AC loads? |
| 15:31.32 | clock_ | break the caps through, spark over the windings,... |
| 15:31.39 | clock_ | no it's DC loads |
| 15:31.46 | clock_ | I have a 6-way erctifier |
| 15:32.01 | clock_ | ordinary PC doesn't take 3-phase power |
| 15:32.11 | clock_ | maybe the future Windows Vista models will, but not the current ones :) |
| 15:32.28 | claymore | true, but wiring across two of the three lines yeilds single phase. |
| 15:32.43 | sporty | claymore: loads whilst the bad food = varicosis |
| 15:32.48 | clock_ | yes and also yields a lot of problems for the generator |
| 15:33.10 | clock_ | local winding overheat, decrease of efficiency, increase of vibrations, more problematic excitation... |
| 15:33.11 | sporty | clock_: i bet you know something about the motor-wheels |
| 15:33.18 | clock_ | what is it? |
| 15:33.39 | sporty | clock_: engine in the rim, ancor in the axle |
| 15:33.47 | clock_ | no I don't know |
| 15:33.53 | sporty | 2x2 bikes |
| 15:33.54 | claymore | there two options, that I can immediately see: add a shunt winding to the generator |
| 15:34.04 | clock_ | what is it? |
| 15:34.32 | claymore | or make a VFD (Variable frequency drive) and just use it backwards. |
| 15:35.07 | clock_ | VFD is too complicated |
| 15:35.24 | clock_ | What I want is a thyristor that gets triggered when the voltage exceeds safe level and shorts the generator |
| 15:35.25 | claymore | with an extremely variable prime mover on the generator, there is not all encompassing solution :/ |
| 15:35.50 | clock_ | The rotor demagnetizes until there is no current produced then the thyristor releases and the generator boots up again |
| 15:36.06 | clock_ | The result will be a jerk - release of torque on the shaft - and voltage limitation |
| 15:36.19 | clock_ | The reboot cycle will be covered by a large electrolyte |
| 15:36.29 | clock_ | and it will give a force feedback that youre pedalling too fast :) |
| 15:36.40 | claymore | well then, if you want low tech, just chain a bunch of zeiners in series with a high wattage resistor. That will shunt the extra voltage and keep output V from going any higher, all the while maintaining power to the loads. |
| 15:36.45 | clock_ | Also waste a bit energy by dumping the core magnetism, but I hope that won't be much |
| 15:37.04 | clock_ | that's a what I did |
| 15:37.11 | clock_ | with a 200W MOSFET on a massive heatsink |
| 15:37.31 | clock_ | The problem is when you short the output spin the wheel fast then the generator is not braking at all |
| 15:38.19 | clock_ | when you remove the short, the voltage builds up exponentially, braking the wheel suddenly and dumping all the joules into whatever you have there to consume the power |
| 15:38.19 | clock_ | resulting in a meltdown |
| 15:38.19 | clock_ | It's a resonant generator, a pwoerful beast ;-) |
| 15:38.27 | clock_ | With a 60W motor I can dar 280W of output ;-) |
| 15:38.30 | clock_ | dar -> draw |
| 15:38.33 | claymore | ... I am not talking about using any form of transistor. Just a bunch of Zenier Diodes in series with a high wattage Resistor. No shorting involved at all. |
| 15:38.45 | clock_ | zener diode can survive about 10W |
| 15:39.12 | clock_ | And your setup will consume power even when the critical voltage is not reached. I don't want this at all |
| 15:40.53 | sporty | claymore: do you have any electrical education |
| 15:41.18 | claymore | eh? um, no it won't. chaining Zeners in series cumulatively adds the breakdown voltage. Just put enough in to equal ~400V and the whole series won't conduct till then. |
| 15:41.35 | clock_ | yes but then all the power will dissipate on the zener |
| 15:41.36 | claymore | sporty: yes, i spent 10 years in the US navy as a Nuclear Electrician. |
| 15:41.37 | clock_ | zeners |
| 15:41.46 | clock_ | I said 200W transistor was melted. You can't even get a 200W zener |
| 15:42.09 | clock_ | it's a bit like compulsator ;-) |
| 15:42.28 | claymore | No, not all. Thats why the Resistor is there in series with the Zeners... to limit the max amount of current flow through that branch. |
| 15:42.32 | sporty | claymore: ok then. Because i shall know the same about the electric machines - and i only know some parts :( |
| 15:42.46 | claymore | and I know where to get 50W Zeners at a decent price. |
| 15:44.14 | claymore | So you make a 'zener branch' with enough 50W Zeners to reach the desired voltage you want to preotect against and rate the resistor to limit it to 50W max. Then you add multple branches in parallel to achieve the desired total Power Shunting you want |
| 15:44.27 | clock_ | sure |
| 15:44.29 | ``Erik | *readreadread* |
| 15:44.35 | clock_ | but I think my thyristor solution is better |
| 15:44.44 | clock_ | it will not dissipate any heat |
| 15:44.56 | clock_ | all the heat will be dissipated in the asynchronous motor |
| 15:45.02 | sporty | ``Erik: hello! |
| 15:45.04 | clock_ | which has an integrated cooling fan ;-) |
| 15:45.11 | sporty | ``Erik: i wanted to ask you |
| 15:45.23 | clock_ | and I will get force feedback! |
| 15:45.36 | claymore | but you described several phsyical shocks that the motor will recieve.... that will destroy the bearings quickly |
| 15:45.37 | ``Erik | notes that humans are biologically constructed to be omnivores and need variety to be healthy... modern western diet is far too rich in meats and too lean in vegetables/fruits, but going vegan/vegetarian is also (typically) an unhealthy extreme, just the pendulum swinging too far back |
| 15:46.22 | clock_ | it will just stop braking and start again |
| 15:46.43 | ``Erik | also notes that recent theory asserts that by cooking food, hominids were able to free up large energy dumps of metabolizing raw food which went to the expansion of the brain O.o |
| 15:46.50 | sporty | ``Erik: is it a comon practic, that i'm in a time ceitnot - and plan to contribute to foss at the weekends? I have to take a solution these days. |
| 15:47.12 | sporty | i mean, how do you do it? |
| 15:47.22 | ``Erik | how do you do what? your query doesn't make sense |
| 15:48.22 | sporty | ``Erik: do you work on brlcad at weekends or at the weekdays? |
| 15:48.36 | claymore | If you short the output of a generator and intentionally cause an over current condition, both speed and voltage will naturally droop, causing the voltage to drop below the thyristor's set point... and it will turn off, removing the short... which will cause speed and voltage to jump up again... and the cycle repeats. very very quickly causing many many micro shocks to the generators rotor.... this eats the bearings alive. |
| 15:48.45 | ``Erik | usually weekdays, occasionally weekends (far less oftne on weekends these days, too busy playing video games or working on my house) |
| 15:49.17 | claymore | exactly why all big generators have overvoltage limiters that shunt output rather than short it and overspeed trips on the prime mover. |
| 15:49.29 | sporty | ``Erik: ok, i wante dto hear these words! Tell something else! ;) |
| 15:51.59 | claymore | the *ideal* solution is to have the VR control the rotor field in the generator, but since its self excited, thats not possible. The best one could achieve is by using a shunt field to suppress the rotor field :/ even that would be hard since I bet this bugger is small. |
| 15:52.07 | sporty | ``Erik: have you played GTA IV? |
| 15:52.32 | clock_ | Actually the dissipated energy will come from the charged excitation capacitors that will be discharged |
| 15:52.54 | clock_ | through some resistors that will prevent internal damage to the capacitor and triac, but still be low enough to reliably de-excite the generator |
| 15:54.02 | claymore | you could add a resistor across the exitation cap leads... make a continual discharge on them to cause them to achieve a lower steady state volt charge.... |
| 15:54.16 | clock_ | decreaes efficiency |
| 15:54.33 | claymore | more effiecient that a trashed bearing :) |
| 15:54.41 | clock_ | I don't believe any trashed bearing |
| 15:55.07 | ``Erik | it's not trashed! it's resting! |
| 15:55.24 | ``Erik | sporty: no, world of dorkcraft |
| 15:55.29 | clock_ | there is no reason for the bearing to trash |
| 15:55.54 | claymore | i have seen what rapid voltage/speed hunting does to bearings. not pretty. |
| 15:56.02 | claymore | but its your generator :) |
| 15:56.58 | sporty | ``Erik: world of enru |
| 15:57.06 | ``Erik | It's not pinin,' it's passed on! This bearing is no more! It has ceased to be! It's expired and gone to meet its maker! This is a late bearing! It's a stiff! Bereft of life, it rests in peace! |
| 15:57.08 | ``Erik | If you hadn't nailed him to the perch he would be pushing up the daisies! Its metabolical processes are of interest only to historians! It's hopped the twig! It's shuffled off this mortal coil! It's run down the curtain and joined the choir invisible! This.... is an EX-BEARING! |
| 15:57.42 | claymore | we lost a cap in the feedback circuit of the ACVR for an emergency generator once. Took a while to figure out why the large Turbine Generator that was in parallel with it was hunting so badly. |
| 15:58.06 | clock_ | what is ACVR? |
| 15:58.31 | clock_ | 1) this is not going to hunt, 2) this is not a Large Turbine Generator |
| 15:58.36 | clock_ | This is a Small Bicycle Generator |
| 15:59.00 | clock_ | Is fun when you spin fast and then remove a short on the output how the generator audibly skids on the tyre :) |
| 15:59.09 | claymore | Once we did figure it out (ala 8 minutes) we pulled the emergency generator off the bus and did an inspection. Rotor was burned from the hunting and we lost 5 mils of babbat in the bearing. had to replace all 4 bearings on the machine (each one is the size of a small car tire :/) |
| 15:59.29 | clock_ | what's babbat? |
| 15:59.48 | claymore | soft material (usually metal) inside a bearing |
| 16:00.04 | clock_ | was it a sleeve bearing? |
| 16:00.23 | sporty | claymore: the bearing of the glidness? |
| 16:00.33 | clock_ | Use Bones Swiss Pro Bearings they are made for skateboards they must survive some shocks ;-) |
| 16:00.33 | ``Erik | babbat or babbitt? |
| 16:00.39 | clock_ | charles babbage? |
| 16:00.47 | clock_ | maybe was it cabbage? cabbage bearing? |
| 16:00.49 | claymore | ACVR = AC Voltage Regulator. There was a DC and an AC side to the Motor Generator |
| 16:00.55 | sporty | sliding bearing? |
| 16:01.00 | sporty | babbit |
| 16:01.05 | claymore | babbitt perhaps. cant remember how its spelled lol. |
| 16:01.11 | clock_ | rabbit? |
| 16:01.19 | claymore | and it was ball bearing. |
| 16:01.29 | ``Erik | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Babbitt_metal |
| 16:01.31 | sporty | Bo Babbit, britain goal-keeper 1878-1937 |
| 16:01.37 | clock_ | you should have used cube bearing |
| 16:01.54 | clock_ | or dodecahedron bearing. |
| 16:01.54 | claymore | 'its not going to hunt' ? But you described to me, earlier, how you expect it to do just that.... *confused* |
| 16:01.59 | sporty | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BoBabbit |
| 16:02.02 | clock_ | they don't run so smoothly but are more mathematically interesting |
| 16:02.09 | claymore | lol |
| 16:02.36 | ``Erik | I d'no, circles and spheres have all sorts of fun trig things, and irrational numbers, and stuff |
| 16:04.07 | claymore | ``Erik likes irrational things, from what i can tell. |
| 16:04.24 | ``Erik | you talkin' about punker, boy? O.o |
| 16:04.36 | claymore | you are Punker's boy... not me. |
| 16:04.45 | clock_ | 1they say plain bearings you say ball |
| 16:04.58 | claymore | who says plain? |
| 16:05.03 | clock_ | wikipedofilia |
| 16:05.36 | sporty | clock_: wikipedofilia lol it's too conform i guess though |
| 16:05.36 | ``Erik | ball refers to the runner, not the housing |
| 16:05.54 | sporty | Ball bearings |
| 16:06.20 | claymore | and there is babbitt on the inner and outer races of a ball bearing, depending on if you are talking about journal or thrust bearings. |
| 16:06.25 | sporty | bearings of sliding |
| 16:06.35 | clock_ | I always thought it's hardened steel |
| 16:06.56 | claymore | Some, more rigid, brearings probably are all steel. |
| 16:07.01 | sporty | clock_: it is hardened stil, right |
| 16:07.24 | clock_ | imagines a skater complaining about losing 5mils of babbit in his machine |
| 16:07.47 | claymore | There are tons of bearing types. We had ones with babbitt. |
| 16:08.33 | ``Erik | probably result in the wheel vibrating, so the bearing would be tossed and replaced without looking into why O.o :D |
| 16:08.38 | sporty | i think due to soft radial load |
| 16:08.43 | claymore | heh, well the tolerances between rotor and stator in this machine stated that 11+ mils of babbitt loss would result in rotor desctruction. |
| 16:08.56 | sporty | due to soft radial load |
| 16:09.05 | clock_ | what is soft radial load? |
| 16:09.21 | sporty | on the rotor |
| 16:09.26 | clock_ | and hard radial load? |
| 16:09.27 | claymore | direction that the rotor is applying force to the bearing. |
| 16:09.34 | sporty | or bearings' still would be hardened |
| 16:11.06 | claymore | radial loads tend to push out, or down due to gravity... so journal (radial) bearings would be appropriate. rotor loads like that of a larger Generator would yeild thrust on the shaft pushing it the direction of the prime mover, or away from it. Thrust bearings are appropriate for this load type. |
| 16:11.20 | claymore | but since both conditions normally exists, you need both. |
| 16:11.59 | claymore | and that is really the extent of my bearing knowledge lol |
| 16:13.14 | claymore | ``Erik: you in today ? |
| 16:15.15 | *** join/#brlcad Elrohir (n=kvirc@p5B14DB9C.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 16:18.00 | ``Erik | yup |
| 16:29.44 | brlcad | claymore: gah .. socketcc is not compatible with our licensing |
| 16:30.45 | sporty | brlcad: can i get 7.12 source for 32 bit ?? (i686) |
| 16:30.49 | claymore | saw that. i am really looking at it for the style of implementation. |
| 16:30.54 | brlcad | they don't allow modified derivative redistributions, that's makes it incompatible |
| 16:30.54 | sporty | and brlcad - hello! |
| 16:31.29 | sporty | claymore: by the way, do you know other languages? |
| 16:31.51 | brlcad | sporty: sources are not platform-specific |
| 16:33.00 | sporty | brlcad: ...and compiler can rule this problem, right? |
| 16:34.03 | brlcad | claymore: not sure what you mean by style of implementation, but that basically means it cannot be used (at all, in any way, even as a reference, especially in the repository) without a relicense from the copyright holder |
| 16:37.29 | claymore | so you are basicly saying that I can't even look at the socketcc code because any code I write that even slightly resembles the socketcc code is a copyright infringement? |
| 16:37.58 | brlcad | pretty much |
| 16:38.04 | brlcad | that's the nature of a derivative work |
| 16:38.14 | claymore | Hrm, well then I am tainted and can no longer work on the project. |
| 16:38.36 | brlcad | puts the code you write (the socketcc *mods*) at risk |
| 16:38.56 | brlcad | not the usages of the library |
| 16:40.44 | claymore | I do not plan on modifying any of the base code. never did. I plan on writing something similar from the ground up, but i needed a reference or two to see 'how they did it' |
| 16:41.26 | claymore | if I did descide to use the libraries, I would extend it via inheritance, leaving the copyrighted code intact. |
| 16:41.36 | claymore | man my engrish is horrid :/ |
| 16:43.05 | brlcad | seeing "how they did it" would arguably be a derivative (as you are basing your implementation off theirs obviously) even if you write it from scratch -- that's where those "clean room rewrite" stories come from for developing drivers from proprietary sources |
| 16:44.09 | brlcad | that would be a valid "use" to just use them and extend via inheritance, but that is still lgpl incompatible for *our* distribution purposes |
| 16:44.26 | *** join/#brlcad thebishop (n=thebisho@67-134-234-189.dia.static.qwest.net) |
| 16:44.46 | thebishop | is the new GUI in svn? |
| 16:44.49 | brlcad | it's usually best to try and get them to relicense under the LGPL or BSD license, or to avoid them entirely |
| 16:45.01 | claymore | So basically, I have to erase all references to those libraries and forget I ever saw them eh? |
| 16:45.04 | brlcad | thebishop: it's a "pre-alpha" prototype, but yes |
| 16:45.11 | brlcad | it's in the "rt^3" module |
| 16:45.21 | thebishop | brlcad, any screenshots? |
| 16:45.22 | brlcad | claymore: or contact the copyright holder |
| 16:45.27 | brlcad | thebishop: yes |
| 16:45.40 | brlcad | what's the interest? |
| 16:46.22 | brlcad | if you're looking to actually use it -- it's not ready for any use whatsoever, it's not ready for even kicking the tires |
| 16:46.48 | brlcad | it's only for developers at this point, emphasis on the pre-alpha, and emphasis on prototype |
| 16:50.19 | claymore | brlcad: how is lgpl not compatible with us? brl-cad proper has lgpl components, doesn't it? |
| 16:52.59 | brlcad | hm? |
| 16:53.01 | brlcad | we are LGPL |
| 16:53.36 | brlcad | we cannot bundle them because we are (predominantly) LGPL |
| 16:53.43 | claymore | ....so what did you mean by the statmement: ' but that is still lgpl incompatible for *our* distribution purposes' |
| 16:54.02 | claymore | i don't get it. |
| 16:54.57 | sporty | will share some mad-mad things soon |
| 16:55.04 | sporty | and weird, too |
| 16:55.14 | sporty | but not these days |
| 16:55.20 | brlcad | that clause in their source makes it incompatible with our source licensing -- basically it puts the sources in conflicting terms |
| 16:56.39 | claymore | the 'modified code cannot be redistributed' clause? |
| 16:57.11 | brlcad | you can't mix n' match licenses -- the terms have to be compatible for a distribution as a combined work, or you have to add explicit exemptions (which is a pita to maintain) |
| 16:57.42 | claymore | sighs. |
| 16:57.52 | claymore | so much for making *that* deadline :/ |
| 16:57.56 | brlcad | I just sent the guy a message |
| 16:58.11 | claymore | oooooh, i was just about to do the same. |
| 16:58.19 | claymore | guess I will hold off a bit then. |
| 16:58.31 | claymore | did you just ask him if we can have it under lgpl? |
| 16:59.47 | brlcad | feel free to send him a message too, tag teaming requests can often help ;) |
| 17:04.08 | claymore | is really tired. Youngest kept me up most of the night. My apologies I am coming off as grumpy. |
| 17:04.41 | sporty | claymore: wake up! |
| 17:04.46 | sporty | it's morning! |
| 17:04.50 | claymore | Oh I am awake. |
| 17:04.57 | sporty | ok then |
| 17:05.03 | claymore | In fact, I didn't go to sleep today ;) |
| 17:05.21 | claymore | got about 2 hrs down yesterday, just before midnight :D |
| 17:05.51 | sporty | claymore: mrs.claymore? |
| 17:05.57 | sporty | :) |
| 17:06.34 | sporty | :-D |
| 17:06.38 | claymore | that was before the 2 hours sleep. the rest of this morning was spent with my youngest (who is only 2) and the fact he didnt wanna sleep. |
| 17:07.32 | sporty | ah! if you would offer him veggies, he would sleep and imagine mrs.youngest :-D |
| 17:08.03 | claymore | good god man. Veggies wont solve the world's problems. |
| 17:08.32 | sporty | claymore: i think i will have two gorls, then boy - becasue i like ladies too much to give a born to the men |
| 17:08.46 | sporty | claymore: ok |
| 17:09.00 | claymore | heh, you act as if you have control over gender :) |
| 17:09.08 | claymore | laughs a knowing laugh. |
| 17:09.34 | sporty | claymore: true |
| 17:10.26 | sporty | i mean it will have happened: i'm overtake the wife,or wait, no, whatever she imagines she likes |
| 17:11.35 | claymore | Well, once you have a pair of little feet running around the house, you won't be so quick to whip out veggies to try to solve a case of the 'I'm not Tireds' :D |
| 17:12.33 | claymore | In fact, you just might be tempted to get the little bugger flying high on sugar so that when they crash you will get come peace and quiet. |
| 17:12.37 | sporty | claymore: not agree again, because you tell "common sence" while i'm about an experience |
| 17:12.51 | claymore | eh... what? |
| 17:13.24 | sporty | for me, most of the things i said is true - didn't want to emphasize it |
| 17:14.22 | sporty | ah! going to eat the cabbage! |
| 17:14.36 | claymore | Yes, you do that! Show that cabbage who's boss. |
| 17:14.56 | sporty | claymore: ha - ha ... |
| 17:15.07 | claymore | :D |
| 17:15.17 | sporty | :'( |
| 17:16.04 | claymore | Why the long face ? |
| 17:16.12 | sporty | there're no bad or too god things in a raw vegan world. only relations between genders |
| 17:16.20 | sporty | like an animals! |
| 17:16.37 | sporty | j/k |
| 17:17.58 | claymore | speaking of animals... I'm hungry :D j/k |
| 17:18.49 | brlcad | claymore: alcohol works well ;) |
| 17:19.25 | claymore | well seeing as alcohol is a poison and thats even *worse* than meat... i can't see how you would drink any! |
| 17:19.35 | claymore | but i don't drink at all, and never have. |
| 17:19.42 | sporty | speaking of hungry... raw vegan choice! |
| 17:19.44 | sporty | why do you have a time for chat? I don't have, usually =-O |
| 17:20.10 | brlcad | used to dip my pacifier in wine to knock me out in germany |
| 17:20.16 | sporty | claymore: what? you don't drink at all? |
| 17:20.20 | brlcad | (like once..) :) |
| 17:20.24 | claymore | lol |
| 17:20.34 | claymore | 'splains some things :D |
| 17:20.38 | brlcad | probably |
| 17:20.50 | brlcad | sporty: he's got good reasons |
| 17:20.58 | brlcad | to each their own |
| 17:21.58 | brlcad | guesses the fedex guy isn't coming |
| 17:22.06 | claymore | sporty: nope. There is no point imho. My take is that if you don't know how to have fun w/o it, then you don't really know how to have fun! |
| 17:22.13 | sporty | i have drinked less than 20 galnos beer in all my life, less than 5 gallon of wine, too |
| 17:22.46 | sporty | i have fun when things i'm in just like when i was 13 |
| 17:23.27 | sporty | i mean this non-extremal safe flatland, long-hauls and so on |
| 17:24.18 | claymore | is fedex guy bringing TV awesomeness? |
| 17:24.19 | brlcad | I don't know that I've ever drank to have fun -- it's like variety in food, I enjoy the variety of pallate in some drinks |
| 17:24.24 | brlcad | no, that's tomorrow |
| 17:24.34 | claymore | oh thats right... its only Wed. |
| 17:24.35 | brlcad | there was some cable foo that came yesterday |
| 17:25.06 | claymore | did he bring the 'self install kit' ? |
| 17:25.17 | claymore | :D |
| 17:25.21 | brlcad | yeah, that was last week -- ups left it at the door |
| 17:25.49 | brlcad | took a bit to find the socketcc guy .. that e-mail is dead |
| 17:25.53 | brlcad | he's moved |
| 17:25.57 | brlcad | found him, though, resent |
| 17:26.16 | claymore | so he was a student? |
| 17:26.23 | sporty | brlcad: are there a snow where you live? |
| 17:26.25 | brlcad | assistant professor or somesuch |
| 17:26.31 | brlcad | sporty: sometimes |
| 17:26.39 | sporty | ok |
| 17:26.54 | brlcad | not really cold enough today though, that's for sure |
| 17:26.55 | sporty | likes snow as he likes the nature |
| 17:27.00 | brlcad | ~weather kbwi |
| 17:27.24 | claymore | ibot doesn't like me... he won't talk to me. |
| 17:27.38 | brlcad | ~weather kbwi |
| 17:27.40 | brlcad | oops |
| 17:27.43 | brlcad | ~weather kapg |
| 17:27.53 | sporty | brlcad: how can i get a temp for special place of the world? I know coordinates |
| 17:28.08 | brlcad | sporty: hold a thermometer outside |
| 17:28.16 | brlcad | at those coordinates |
| 17:28.23 | sporty | brlcad: it's too simple |
| 17:28.26 | claymore | chuckles. |
| 17:28.35 | brlcad | then try holding it while on a unicycle |
| 17:28.40 | claymore | its 60 out? nice :) |
| 17:28.54 | brlcad | that's probably old, might be warmer |
| 17:29.06 | brlcad | kapg sometimes doesn't update very frequently |
| 17:29.19 | brlcad | might have been a couple hours ago |
| 17:29.36 | archivist | ~weather egnx |
| 17:29.43 | claymore | 63 according to www.weather.wrong. |
| 17:29.49 | brlcad | sporty: you'd have to know a weather station code |
| 17:30.11 | archivist | airport codes |
| 17:30.12 | sporty | ok |
| 17:30.23 | brlcad | airports usually have a weather station, so they're pretty convenient ;) |
| 17:30.28 | sporty | ok, we have one |
| 17:30.53 | claymore | archivist: whereabouts in the UK? (if you dont mind me askin) |
| 17:30.54 | archivist | I have implemented that function in my bot as well |
| 17:31.01 | brlcad | there are sites around the web, you can find the nearest |
| 17:31.18 | archivist | east midlands near burton on trent |
| 17:31.51 | sporty | brlcad: but it is not so "cheap&angry" as we say |
| 17:32.15 | brlcad | claymore: as an alternative, since it's probably a 25/75 that he'll consider relicensing, I'd suggest just working with boost threads |
| 17:32.24 | archivist | claymore, local town is Swadlincote where I work |
| 17:32.48 | brlcad | hears a truck outside, goes to check |
| 17:32.56 | claymore | archivist: Derbyshire ? |
| 17:32.59 | archivist | yes |
| 17:33.52 | brlcad | damn .. ups, not fedex |
| 17:34.05 | claymore | I think i have been through (or near) that area on a train a few years back. Pretty country :) |
| 17:34.24 | claymore | gets excited whenever UPS Clause brings me something. |
| 17:35.14 | brlcad | knows the feeling |
| 17:36.30 | brlcad | awww.. it needs to charge up first :( |
| 17:36.42 | claymore | cell phone? |
| 17:36.49 | brlcad | roomba |
| 17:36.55 | claymore | sweet! |
| 17:37.02 | claymore | I always wanted to get one of those. |
| 17:37.03 | brlcad | yeah, I finally caved in |
| 17:37.30 | claymore | 'course, i want to make the Lawnba, but I think it just might be too dangerous. |
| 17:37.42 | brlcad | especially with this big open area hardwood floors I have, I think it'll do good here |
| 17:38.00 | brlcad | jason and I have actually talked at *length* about such a device |
| 17:38.06 | brlcad | if I had a yard, I'd be working on that |
| 17:38.12 | brlcad | I hate mowing |
| 17:38.34 | sporty | can someone tell me about gps? |
| 17:38.41 | brlcad | you can actually get them now .. but they're a bit pricey |
| 17:38.52 | brlcad | sporty: yes, someone probably can |
| 17:39.05 | sporty | i want a cheap GPS. (no display) Will it have a compass inside? |
| 17:39.18 | claymore | did you see the article about the MIT guys (I think) that hooked a Roomba up to bluetooth, wired the controls through a cell phone and played 'frogger' on a busy downtown Boston street? |
| 17:39.23 | sporty | shall i pay regulary for satellites' use? |
| 17:39.24 | brlcad | sporty: http://tinyurl.com/644cnm |
| 17:39.46 | sporty | what is it? |
| 17:39.55 | sporty | cinnamon? |
| 17:40.09 | sporty | cnm... well, my http is locked |
| 17:40.10 | brlcad | claymore: hah, no I hadn't seen that |
| 17:40.29 | claymore | well, long story short, i lol'ed. |
| 17:40.53 | claymore | great pictures of the event. They lost btw. *need to find that link* |
| 17:41.34 | brlcad | http://store.irobot.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2591901&cp=2600059.2591511&parentPage=family |
| 17:43.13 | claymore | haha, i was way off. It was Austin and a laptop: http://news.cnet.com/2300-1041_3-6049976-1.html?tag=mncol |
| 17:43.47 | claymore | think the powers that be would get mad if we had a Roomba at work? |
| 17:43.51 | claymore | :D |
| 17:44.26 | *** join/#brlcad cad91 (n=5c3c1c70@bz.bzflag.bz) |
| 17:45.27 | sporty | What is "Roomba"? |
| 17:46.14 | claymore | Semi-intelligent disk shaped robot/vaccum that automagically learns the layout of your house and vaccuums it for ya. |
| 17:47.37 | sporty | ah! But i would use a wet patch for both, wood and carpets |
| 17:48.10 | claymore | Dunno if they have a WetDrymba.... |
| 17:48.35 | sporty | claymore: i mean AI will kill us all |
| 17:48.56 | sporty | arttificial intelligence as e.g. homekeepers |
| 17:49.11 | sporty | androids and other sheet |
| 17:50.10 | claymore | true AI will never happen, its much like a paradox. But it makes for great Scifi movies! |
| 17:50.56 | sporty | ai on perl will be able - and we will have to fight with it. only robust will have survived. |
| 17:52.31 | brlcad | they call it the "scooba" |
| 17:52.40 | sporty | what? |
| 17:52.49 | brlcad | the mop version |
| 17:53.23 | sporty | it will have understood all the terms as young kids do, and make a solution, main solution |
| 17:53.25 | claymore | hahaha |
| 17:53.49 | claymore | GutterCleaningBot. |
| 17:54.08 | sporty | ha-ha |
| 17:54.12 | *** join/#brlcad Bman (n=erik@ftp.brlcad.org) |
| 17:55.46 | claymore | brlcad: do you happen to know how much of the boost libraries are already in the rt^3 and/or brlcad modules? |
| 17:56.28 | brlcad | quite a bit |
| 17:57.11 | brlcad | none in rt^3 at the moment, but that is easily remedied |
| 17:57.41 | brlcad | there's a tool that will extract exactly what is needed for redistribution based on use, though |
| 17:57.58 | brlcad | so you don't really have to worry about it -- you just write your code and it'll figure out the subset |
| 17:58.07 | claymore | Hows that work? I am puttering around the boost site. |
| 17:58.29 | brlcad | i.e. you'd install all of boost on your system, and then just start using it |
| 17:58.54 | brlcad | then there's a tool in boost that will extract the portions of boost you're using when it comes time to make a distribution |
| 17:59.33 | claymore | ... so the whole boost library resides in the svn repository? Only portions are used when compile time comes? |
| 18:00.21 | Bman | boosts exists on the system, you run a program that parses your source and copies the minimal subset of boost into your directory, that gets added to svn |
| 18:00.47 | brlcad | right, only a subset goes into svn |
| 18:01.08 | brlcad | but you don't know which subset you need until you actually use it, so you install the full thing on your system |
| 18:02.19 | claymore | cool. Would you reccommend snaging one of the distros or getting the latest from their svn? |
| 18:05.26 | *** join/#brlcad punkrockgirl (i=Pandora@c-69-247-220-102.hsd1.mo.comcast.net) |
| 18:15.03 | brlcad | probably snagging a distro |
| 18:16.30 | brlcad | svn could be unstable, in a state of flux, etc -- should know the project or have a need before jumping that route |
| 18:17.11 | sporty | brlcad: so can i write complicate dformulae in emacs by means fo elisp? |
| 18:17.15 | sporty | claymore: ? |
| 18:17.25 | brlcad | sure |
| 18:17.55 | sporty | brlcad: you mean even integrals and so on - to solve and to print? |
| 18:18.10 | sporty | can i print it just like i'm drafting it? |
| 18:19.26 | brlcad | it's a full lisp environment, so you can write code to do just about anything |
| 18:20.23 | sporty | brlcad: but will it "paint integrals as e.g. latex" ?? Is LaTex the same, or it differs? |
| 18:21.09 | brlcad | your question doesn't make sense to me |
| 18:22.39 | sporty | LaTex and Emacs - the same? |
| 18:26.27 | brlcad | um, no |
| 18:27.10 | sporty | brlcad: is it true LaTex can write anything i want as e.g. diploma with formulas? |
| 18:27.14 | brlcad | one is a document preparation system, the other is a extensible, customizable, self- documenting real-time display editor |
| 18:27.23 | sporty | and can Emacs write formulas to paper? |
| 18:27.44 | ``Erik | emacs writes ascii files to disk O.o (gross simplification, but...) |
| 18:27.59 | sporty | brlcad: can i say "I'm using Emacs instead of MathCAD" |
| 18:28.00 | ``Erik | same as vim, pic, or notepad.exe |
| 18:28.29 | brlcad | sporty: your understanding really is bizarre. your questions make no sense. |
| 18:28.37 | sporty | ``Erik: what program shall i use to write formulas - instead of MS Word (full) for my diploma? |
| 18:28.42 | brlcad | you can say whatever you want |
| 18:29.08 | brlcad | if you're wanting to render formulas, latex is good for that |
| 18:29.09 | sporty | brlcad: seriuosly, can i use emacs instead of mathcad? |
| 18:29.25 | brlcad | seriously, that question makes no sense |
| 18:29.32 | ``Erik | a lot of people use emacs (or lisp) to write the LaTeX file, then use teTeX or LaTeX or whatever to compile the control file into a pdf |
| 18:29.41 | ``Erik | er |
| 18:29.42 | ``Erik | or vim |
| 18:29.43 | sporty | ok! |
| 18:29.47 | ``Erik | emacs (or vim) |
| 18:29.55 | brlcad | it's like saying "can i eat peanuts instead of doing jumping jacks" |
| 18:30.07 | ``Erik | mmm peanut jumping jacks |
| 18:30.14 | brlcad | the two have nothing to do with each other |
| 18:30.18 | sporty | ``Erik: i just has no chance to download latex... too big traffic |
| 18:30.36 | brlcad | then you probably have no chance to download emacs either |
| 18:30.38 | brlcad | it's big |
| 18:30.40 | sporty | brlcad: ok, just too new for too much information |
| 18:30.58 | brlcad | you seriously need a better internet connection so you can stfw |
| 18:31.11 | ``Erik | iirc, there are services online where you can select a bunch of files you'd like, then they mail you a cd burnt with that stuff (for a fee) |
| 18:31.15 | brlcad | and educate yourself better without being constrained per bit |
| 18:31.31 | ``Erik | or if you buy a linux or bsd distro, they mail you the cd's and have all this stuff on them |
| 18:31.36 | sporty | brlcad: i have emacs from cd , but i could download it if i want |
| 18:32.02 | brlcad | if you could download it, then you should be able to browse a f'ing wikipedia page |
| 18:32.33 | sporty | ``Erik: it's ok... after a month, i'm ending the education - will translate brlcad better |
| 18:32.52 | brlcad | http://www.osbr.ca/ojs/index.php/osbr/article/view/800/771 <-- notes the intro paragraph familiarity :) |
| 18:33.51 | sporty | ok, turning on terminal, java, browser, ready, set, go, !! |
| 18:38.27 | CIA-6 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r33335 10/rt^3/trunk/autogen.sh: set exec bit |
| 18:42.11 | sporty | brlcad: by the way, few weeks ago i didn't know a way how-to configure, make and make install! Is there anything like "Users' artworks" on the site - so as i can, well, see this: http://www.naturalstuff.110mb.com/ (the bottom) |
| 18:42.43 | sporty | i mean, i didn't know even about the irc... Well, i was a windows user... |
| 18:43.10 | sporty | can users create pages under wiki ?? |
| 18:43.40 | sporty | *Installation of BRL-CAD 7.10.2 in Ubuntu 8.04* |
| 18:44.16 | brlcad | looks |
| 18:44.32 | brlcad | sporty: yes, you can create new wiki pages just like on wikipedia |
| 18:44.34 | *** join/#brlcad cad75 (n=5bcb6016@bz.bzflag.bz) |
| 18:44.36 | brlcad | it's a full open wiki |
| 18:44.51 | sporty | brlcad: later |
| 18:44.53 | brlcad | including translation pages, just don't know if there are any examples to start with |
| 18:45.10 | *** join/#brlcad cad13 (n=5bcb6016@bz.bzflag.bz) |
| 18:45.24 | brlcad | you can't edit the drupal pages without having a permission bit set, but there's only a couple drupal pages |
| 18:45.52 | *** join/#brlcad archivist (n=archivis@host81-149-119-172.in-addr.btopenworld.com) |
| 18:46.00 | sporty | when i will have re-installed the system - i will enlarge this tutorial - and then it will have a decent look |
| 18:46.14 | brlcad | sporty: "mged -n" is changed to "mged -c" |
| 18:46.18 | brlcad | -n is going away |
| 18:46.35 | sporty | brlcad: i'm still at 7.10 |
| 18:46.43 | brlcad | sporty: so? |
| 18:46.48 | sporty | oh my! |
| 18:47.33 | sporty | brlcad: and later i will have a short tutorial under the header "Users write: installation ...7.10 in U 8.04" |
| 18:48.41 | sporty | brlcad: i will delete rhese pages and files from my pc - i want to publish it soon |
| 18:49.21 | sporty | my site is awful. I'm still creating those examples it was created for. |
| 18:51.29 | sporty | so i'm using mged -n cup.g |
| 18:52.10 | *** join/#brlcad Aevum (n=c3d548c1@bz.bzflag.bz) |
| 18:53.41 | sporty | http://ribbonsoft.com/camexpert_doc.html (bottom) closes up my education as a translator. I will take some rest from this all - then will skate and type as fast as i can! |
| 18:57.29 | sporty | what is an international word for "distrib" ?? i know it must have less than 7 characters |
| 19:05.06 | *** join/#brlcad ``Erik_ (i=erik@c-68-54-174-162.hsd1.md.comcast.net) |
| 19:07.24 | sporty | off-line again? |
| 19:18.33 | brlcad | sporty: all i'm saying is you should change the -n to a -c and it'll work on both the old and the newer versions of mged |
| 19:20.14 | brlcad | otherwise that documentation will quickly be out-dated |
| 19:21.08 | brlcad | distrib is distribution so share or give or publish, etc |
| 19:24.46 | *** join/#brlcad clock_ (n=clock@77-58-241-142.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
| 19:48.53 | *** join/#brlcad csanyipal (n=csanyipa@91.102.231.33) |
| 19:49.18 | csanyipal | Hi, is anybody here? |
| 19:50.20 | csanyipal | I want to ask about the tutorial: "Introduction_to_MGED.pdf", Lesson 3 |
| 19:52.11 | csanyipal | I have installed BRL-CAD 7.14.1 |
| 19:52.49 | csanyipal | When I create shapes sph1.s & rcc1.s then I get a big shapes. |
| 19:53.10 | csanyipal | I created these shapes with make command. |
| 19:53.42 | csanyipal | But when I create after that with in command the other sph2.s rcc2.s shapes, |
| 19:54.00 | *** join/#brlcad Ralith (n=ralith@216.162.199.202) |
| 19:54.18 | csanyipal | these new shapes appeare in the Graphics Window so small that I can't even see it! |
| 19:54.43 | ``Erik | you're probably making them... tiny... :) try doing like "l sph1.s" to get an idea of the scale those are at |
| 19:54.50 | brlcad | csanyipal: run "autoview" |
| 19:54.51 | csanyipal | I must Zoom in to see it! |
| 19:54.56 | csanyipal | ok |
| 19:55.07 | brlcad | the 'in' command will not rezoom if you make something new |
| 19:55.24 | brlcad | the 'make' command creates objects that are relative to the size of the view |
| 19:55.35 | brlcad | 'in' uses absolute values |
| 19:55.46 | csanyipal | ok |
| 19:55.50 | ``Erik | "autoview" might be useful |
| 19:57.00 | csanyipal | now when I used autoview nothing happens. Must I use autoview before command make & in? |
| 19:57.02 | ``Erik | brlcad: preparing the crib for the new babies you get tomorrow? O.o |
| 19:57.27 | ``Erik | autoview just tries to resize the view to fit everything that's currently being displaye |
| 19:57.37 | csanyipal | ok |
| 19:58.59 | Ralith | defining a primitive with attributes which are relative to those of another primitive is parametrics, right? |
| 19:59.48 | csanyipal | I try to make a new tutorila for my pupils, and I translate the tutorial abowe mentioned to Hungarian. |
| 20:02.53 | brlcad | ``Erik: actually already prepped :) |
| 20:03.01 | brlcad | was waiting for a package to arrive |
| 20:03.51 | ``Erik | well, dmanit, stop that, when you don't answer your phone, I'm #2 on their list for question answering O.o :D |
| 20:04.13 | csanyipal | My problem is that that the difference between shapes maked with make command and shapes maked with in command is so big that even with command autoview I can't see the shapes maked with in command. |
| 20:05.02 | brlcad | Ralith: yes |
| 20:05.21 | ``Erik | if you 'l' the shape you used make on, it should give you an idea of what scale to use with your 'in' command |
| 20:05.38 | Ralith | Support for that's not too far along, right? Anywhere I can check to see status? |
| 20:05.39 | ``Erik | if make generates a 1m diameter sphere, then yeah, anything you make 1mm across is going to look tiny |
| 20:05.39 | csanyipal | ok |
| 20:06.26 | brlcad | Ralith: you can ask dawn on the mailing list, and/or check out src/libpc |
| 20:06.39 | brlcad | dawn doesn't make it onto irc very often, uses the mailing list |
| 20:07.03 | brlcad | csanyipal: that's because you're still showing big and small objects |
| 20:07.24 | csanyipal | ok I figure this out |
| 20:07.38 | brlcad | csanyipal: run "who" to see what objects are being drawn, you can "erase objectname" to erase it |
| 20:08.17 | brlcad | "e object" and "d object" are the same as "draw object" and "erase object" |
| 20:08.29 | csanyipal | thanks |
| 20:08.55 | brlcad | ironically, the letters reverse for the short-hand as they originally stood for "edit" and "delete", but those terms were misleading |
| 20:09.01 | ``Erik | heh, e for draw and d for erase |
| 20:09.48 | brlcad | don't think I even realized that little irony until I wrote it there either :) |
| 20:10.20 | csanyipal | so the make command make allways a 1 meter diameter sphere? |
| 20:10.43 | brlcad | no, the make command makes an object relative to your view size |
| 20:10.55 | csanyipal | ok, sorry, I forgat that |
| 20:10.59 | ``Erik | at the bottom of te window is a bunch of text, 'sz' is the view size |
| 20:11.09 | ``Erik | make uses that value in its computation |
| 20:11.38 | csanyipal | so I must mayhep to use the size command first |
| 20:11.39 | brlcad | try this: make sph sph ; zoom .5 ; make sph2 sph ; zoom .5 ; make arb8 arb8 ; zoom .5 |
| 20:12.01 | ``Erik | (and I guess the default view's sphere is 1 meter radius, not diameter) |
| 20:12.19 | csanyipal | ok diameter = 2 * radius |
| 20:13.42 | csanyipal | I want to say that that the tutorial is not so perfect.. |
| 20:15.21 | csanyipal | so the pupils in a secondary school can't to use it and to understand it when came to the Lesson 3.. |
| 20:17.30 | brlcad | csanyipal: which tutorial? |
| 20:17.39 | brlcad | the mged tutorial on the website? |
| 20:17.46 | brlcad | er, on brlcad.org? |
| 20:18.14 | csanyipal | yes, Introduction_to_MGED.pdf |
| 20:18.26 | brlcad | I can see how that'd be difficult for that age, they weren't the audience .. :) |
| 20:18.36 | csanyipal | pages 25, 26 |
| 20:18.49 | brlcad | if you write a much simpler version, be glad to put it up on the site |
| 20:18.54 | brlcad | and write an article about it |
| 20:19.02 | csanyipal | ok |
| 20:19.09 | ``Erik | or convert it to docbook so we can snarf it into the repo and improve it :D |
| 20:19.27 | brlcad | it's been on the todo for a while to write a "quick introduction to brl-cad" |
| 20:19.35 | brlcad | something less than 10 pages tops |
| 20:19.38 | csanyipal | ok |
| 20:21.02 | csanyipal | I'm a fraid about that that BRL-CAD can't to explain in less than 10 pages, however |
| 20:22.23 | brlcad | a huge portion could be, enough to give an understanding of how things are done and how to get started |
| 20:22.34 | csanyipal | ok |
| 20:22.42 | brlcad | mind you, 10 pages of text .. images could make that be a little or a lot more |
| 20:22.46 | csanyipal | I agree with that.. |
| 20:23.13 | csanyipal | yes |
| 20:24.08 | ``Erik | pheer the ultimate 'choose your own adventure' interactive BRL-CAD tutorial/cookbook O.o :D |
| 20:24.51 | Ralith | lol |
| 20:25.47 | ``Erik | (only half joking... there're 3 bazillion things you can do with it, so there'll n ever be a good single tutorial or intro... :D ) |
| 20:26.21 | csanyipal | ok |
| 20:27.45 | csanyipal | Now I'm going to find out how can I make better the Lesson 3 so that this problem never happen: the difference between shapes created with make and with in commands. |
| 20:29.27 | CIA-6 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r33336 10/brlcad/trunk/AUTHORS: ben's okay with it, include the name |
| 20:30.11 | csanyipal | the difference is so big, I want to lower this difference |
| 20:30.50 | Ralith | it might be better to clarify why there is a difference |
| 20:32.23 | csanyipal | no because then still nobody can't see the shapes created with in command |
| 20:33.01 | csanyipal | they are very small.. |
| 20:33.16 | csanyipal | like a dot |
| 20:33.21 | Ralith | size is completely relative |
| 20:33.29 | Ralith | it's only small if your view is set up that way |
| 20:37.09 | Ralith | csanyipal: actually, you could probably solve the problem just be modifying lesson 3 to use larger sizes for the manually created shapes. |
| 20:37.12 | brlcad | csanyipal: that's because you gave really small values relative to the view size |
| 20:37.55 | brlcad | you can make 'in' match 'make' |
| 20:38.44 | Ralith | brlcad: I just checked; at least here, following the instructions word-for-word, (including not erasing anything) makes you end up with a nearly-indiscernable sph2.s |
| 20:38.59 | Ralith | which is expected behavior and so on |
| 20:39.10 | Ralith | but at the point of lesson 3, a user might not expect that or know what to do |
| 20:39.44 | brlcad | csanyipal: think of the units you are using .. if you make something with the 'in' command that has values like 5.33 .. that's 5.33 millimeters (by default) .. if the view size is 2000, that's 2 meters .. |
| 20:40.21 | brlcad | so yeah, it'd be tiny |
| 20:40.36 | Ralith | the closest the guide comes to saying "this shape will be really tiny" is saying that the radius will be 3mm, without ever having described the size of the 'make'-created objects |
| 20:40.46 | csanyipal | I understand that |
| 20:40.56 | brlcad | make doesn't care -- it just uses the size of the view no matter how big or small it is.. if your view is 10 km, it'll make a 10 km box if you make an arb8 |
| 20:42.45 | Ralith | and the default view, at least on my setup, was large enough to produce this behavior. |
| 20:47.06 | csanyipal | Now I tried to size the view to 10 mm |
| 20:48.42 | csanyipal | and then the shapes created with make and in commands are wide apart very much |
| 20:50.21 | csanyipal | when I run autoview after |
| 20:53.59 | csanyipal | I run size after autoview and get the value of it: 2040 |
| 20:53.59 | brlcad | autoview resizes to fit whatever is being drawn (the 'who' command to see what is drawn) |
| 20:54.26 | brlcad | that means you have something drawn that is much bigger, you were just zoomed in |
| 20:54.51 | csanyipal | but when I began with the make command the size was 10 |
| 20:54.53 | *** join/#brlcad ``Erik (n=erik@ftp.brlcad.org) |
| 20:55.11 | CIA-6 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r33337 10/brlcad/trunk/src/adrt/slave/ (load.c load_MySQL.c slave.c): re-order headers |
| 20:56.14 | csanyipal | ok, thanks, I must go now.. |
| 20:56.21 | Ralith | seeya |
| 20:56.23 | CIA-6 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r33338 10/brlcad/trunk/src/adrt/ (adrt.h master/master.c): make extra-verbose announce opcode names as well as number |
| 20:56.34 | *** part/#brlcad csanyipal (n=csanyipa@91.102.231.33) |
| 20:59.49 | CIA-6 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r33339 10/brlcad/trunk/src/other/tkhtml3/Makefile.in: carry LDFLAGS |
| 20:59.51 | *** join/#brlcad Elrohir (n=kvirc@p5B14DB9C.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 21:09.51 | CIA-6 | BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r33340 10/brlcad/trunk/src/tclscripts/lib/ComboBox.tcl: Set the borderwidth to 1 for the frame and menubutton components. |
| 21:13.08 | CIA-6 | BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r33341 10/brlcad/trunk/src/tclscripts/lib/RtControl.tcl: Added code to insure the "Advanced Settings" dialog pops up above the main rt control dialog. |
| 21:25.48 | CIA-6 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r33342 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libged/ (expand.c ged_private.h importFg4Section.c put_comb.c red.c): carry const where possible |
| 21:28.43 | CIA-6 | BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r33343 10/brlcad/trunk/ (include/ged.h src/libged/Makefile.am src/libged/tire.c): Added Cliff's tire command to libged. |
| 21:33.36 | CIA-6 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r33344 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libdm/scale.c: add missing header |
| 21:34.31 | brlcad | ``Erik: where is the memory free'd for ged_put_tree_into_comb()? |
| 21:35.17 | CIA-6 | BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r33345 10/brlcad/trunk/src/ (4 files in 3 dirs): Make use of libged's tire functionality. |
| 21:44.34 | ``Erik | erm, right there *point* |
| 21:44.48 | CIA-6 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r33346 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libged/put_comb.c: free the strdup'd memory |
| 21:45.03 | ``Erik | sheesh, you think I'd forget something like that? |
| 21:45.04 | ``Erik | :D |
| 21:47.18 | CIA-6 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r33347 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libged/put_comb.c: verify the immutable string, not the unallocated string. Verify the duplication succeeded. |
| 21:47.19 | ``Erik | is surprised brlcad keyed on a neglegible leak opposed to the show stopping bug |
| 21:48.30 | brlcad | ``Erik: show-stoppers aren't a problem .. 'cause they sorta .. stop the show |
| 21:48.49 | brlcad | the subtle ones tend to live forever :) |
| 21:49.01 | brlcad | and grow hair |
| 21:49.04 | ``Erik | until someone stumbles across that function with valgrind |
| 21:49.27 | ``Erik | <-- subtle like that O.o |
| 21:49.48 | brlcad | assuming they get through the other reports before it |
| 21:50.20 | brlcad | there's a few in the report now that I didn't see an easy fix for |
| 21:50.33 | brlcad | subtle leaks added a long time ago |
| 21:51.07 | ``Erik | if they're not easy to get rid of, that code is a candidate for heavier reworking *shrug* :) |
| 21:53.53 | ``Erik | too effin' hot in here, 77 in the office :/ |
| 21:56.48 | punkrockgirl | its cold outside |
| 21:56.52 | punkrockgirl | does the snowday dance |
| 21:58.29 | CIA-6 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r33348 10/brlcad/trunk/ (7 files in 3 dirs): remove isst client |
| 23:18.00 | CIA-6 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r33349 10/brlcad/trunk/autogen.sh: |
| 23:18.00 | CIA-6 | BRL-CAD: merge in changes from Sebastian Pipping's git tree, commit |
| 23:18.00 | CIA-6 | BRL-CAD: 7fd089f2a40099db7c30a6a340b330f29ec4d8cd (Resolve code duplication on equal |
| 23:18.00 | CIA-6 | BRL-CAD: treatment of COPYING and INSTALL). refactors the backup handling into one loop |
| 23:18.01 | CIA-6 | BRL-CAD: for both. |
| 23:24.42 | *** join/#brlcad ``Erik_ (i=erik@c-68-54-174-162.hsd1.md.comcast.net) |
| 23:28.13 | brlcad | is amazed that the lil bugger wandered semi-intelligently around the entire rooms for nearly an hour with all these boxes and junk everywhere yet still managed to find its way back to the docking station |
| 23:41.05 | CIA-6 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r33350 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libged/put_comb.c: bu_strdup() to the rescue |
| 23:42.19 | ``Erik_ | shakes fist |
| 23:42.42 | CIA-6 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r33351 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libged/put_comb.c: oop, use bu_free on all of the callers. get rid of the dead code too. |
| 23:43.19 | ``Erik_ | what about the strchr stuff imitating strtok? bu_strtok()? |
| 23:45.23 | CIA-6 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r33352 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libged/put_comb.c: ws |
| 23:45.24 | brlcad | erm, they don't allocate memory do they? |
| 23:45.42 | brlcad | strdup is in there because of the allocation guarantee |
| 23:45.54 | brlcad | tok just points into the str iirc |
| 23:48.48 | ``Erik_ | strtok sets the char to null, sets a ptr and returns a ptr I think? I don't remember |