IRC log for #brlcad on 20080805

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04:12.51CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r32254 10/brlcad/branches/pre-7-12-6/ChangeLog: Update Changelog again
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07:08.47CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * r32255 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libged/CMakeLists.txt: added some files to be consistent with Makefile.am
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10:50.23mafmhey there
11:02.12CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03homovulgaris * r32256 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libpc/ (pcSolver.h solver_test.cpp): removing using namespace boost
11:30.05brlcadhowdy mafm
11:59.37CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03homovulgaris * r32257 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libpc/ (pcPCSet.cpp pcPCSet.h pcSolver.h solver_test.cpp): Adding a generic PCSolver to take care of non-binary constraints as well taking data directly from the PCSet without using the graph structures
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12:08.26mafmbrlcad: what's the logic behind including headers' order, from the HACKING file?
12:13.57mafmif you include system headers before your code's headers, your headers are not autocontained
12:14.41mafmsay, if you need std::vector in a header, you might not put it but still works in your code
12:15.09mafmbut then brokes when somebody wants to include the header in a new implementation file, and forgets to include what the header needs
12:24.41brlcadmafm: portability/overridability
12:24.55brlcad"you might not put it" would be an error in that header
12:24.59brlcads/header/source/
12:25.08brlcadeach file should include what it needs
12:26.02brlcadthe ordering ensure consistent inclusion across platforms and allows you to globally (and consistently) override or account for system peculiarities
12:34.15brlcadit also helps identify/fix cyclic header dependencies because it's really hard to keep them in the prescribed order if the interfaces form a cycle (which is generally a bad design)
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13:18.21mac-HI THERE
13:18.25mac-sorry for caps :)
13:18.50mac-i wish to install BRL-CAD on my slackware Linux
13:19.00mac-there is sense to compile it ?
13:21.03starseekersure, that should work fine
13:21.55mac-but i`m looking now on download page from sourceforge
13:21.56starseekerThe binary should be OK if you just want to try it out, but the compile is pretty straightforward if you want to build it yourself
13:22.17mac-and there is only 64 bit version precompiled
13:22.24mac-when I`m working on IA32
13:22.25mac-:/
13:22.43starseekerAh, yes - for the most recent one that's true
13:22.52starseeker7.10.4 has 32 bit versions
13:23.40mac-I`m working on AMD Athlon 750 MHz with 768 MB ECC RAM and SCSI 10k disks it is enough ?
13:23.53starseekersure
13:24.01starseekerplenty ;-)
13:24.20starseekerBRL-CAD has historically run on just about everything, from a VAX on up to a supercomputer
13:24.37mac-i wish to draw robot`s effector
13:24.43mac-:>
13:25.09starseekereffector?
13:25.12mac-there is module for motion simulation like on Deassault Systemes Catia ?
13:25.26starseekerour motion tools are pretty limited at the moment
13:25.50mac-effector is an robot working tool at the and of robot arm
13:25.51mac-:>
13:26.15mac-but there is tool for motion simulation ?
13:26.51mac-i know that Catia is very experienced software on this area
13:26.55starseekerI guess you could start here:  http://brlcad.org/OLD/reports/tr-313/index.html
13:27.17starseekerI've never used them myself, so I'm not really qualified to comment
13:27.34mafmbrlcad: what I told there it was only a simple problems, but there are more complex scenarios; like including RBGui header (external non-system header) which includes things that make that some .c/xx files have to include system headers before other local headers, or not
13:28.09mafmbrlcad: but well, it was just for curiosity seeing what Ralith has done, it's about the same for me -- just that I was "fixing" them in the other direction recently
13:28.47mac-i`m student of mechanical engeenerig
13:28.52mac-engeneering
13:29.11mac-then i wish to define trajectories of elements motions
13:29.59mac-it will be very syntetic but should work proper for my requirements
13:30.01mac-:)
13:34.57mac-hmm, 24 MB of bz2 sources file, and it is complete BRL-CAD with all features ?
13:34.58brlcadmafm: that's a failure of encapsulation in the rbgui header then, which can be accounted for by having an rbgui wrapper private header that includes common, system-that-rbgui-needs, rbgui header
13:35.16brlcador fixing rbgui's files
13:36.37brlcadthe problem is there regardless
13:37.18brlcadmac-: what else would you expect?
13:38.31brlcadcatia has more than 1k developers and a 5-figure per-seat license fee (USD/EUR) so keep that in mind :P
13:39.00mac-and is written in VisualBasic :P
13:40.49mafmoh, that explains why it's so expensive
13:40.58mac-:>
13:41.16mac-do you worked on Catia ?
13:41.27mac-did you work on Catia?*
13:47.57mafm(not me)
13:50.20mac-catia is very 'heavy' software
13:51.09mac-I`ve installed it on my slackware unser wine, and moreover it started but can`t work :P
13:51.37pacman87mac-: i run slackware too, and i compiled from source
13:52.11mafmpacman87: he's talking about a software called Catia, not BRL-CAD :D
13:52.40pacman87i was responding more to the scrollback than the latest comment
13:56.34mac-uhm, on which hardware and how long it taken ?
13:57.01pacman87p4, 2.8ghz, 30-40 minutes
13:57.14mac-and how big binaries are ?
13:59.04mac-it will take about 3hrs to compile :)
13:59.10mac-on  my machine
13:59.11pacman87/usr/brlcad is 317MB
13:59.24mac-it`s quite big after compile :)
13:59.37pacman87my svn checkout directory is 997MB
14:07.21PrezKennedyi should try compiling it on my wimpy centos box
14:11.47mac-:)
14:11.53mac-You are engeeners ?
14:12.20pacman87i'm a ME major/EE minor at UT, class of '09
14:13.17mac-what kond of constructions You are drwaing on BRL ?
14:13.30PrezKennedyim an IT major, class of someday :)
14:14.01brlcadmac-: why would I work on catia?  did they make it open source recently? :)
14:14.14mac-heh
14:14.17brlcadI just know a couple of their devs
14:14.36brlcads/know/have met/ .. not like we chum out every week
14:15.34PrezKennedybrlcad, you going to siggraph?
14:15.35brlcadPrezKennedy: you should do something about that 'someday' :)
14:15.39brlcadabsolutely
14:18.07PrezKennedybrlcad, i will, work is going to pay for it
14:18.40brlcadpaying for it isn't the hardest part .. it's doing the work and finsihing :)
14:19.39PrezKennedyyeah there is that too
14:24.52PrezKennedybrlcad, ive got the motivation and i know where i want to go with it now... didnt have that before :)
14:25.06mac-oh, there is any rewuirement i.e. OpenGL graphic adapter or something ?
14:25.21mac-I have Matrox MGA G200
14:29.22brlcadmac-: nope
14:31.00mac-gr8 :)
14:45.11Axman6wow, been a long time since i've seen anyone use that
14:50.40mac-what ?
14:50.42mac-G200 ?
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16:10.06starseekermac-:  You should be fine to compile and run it
16:10.06starseekerjust remember that it's not intuitive for beginners - you will NEED to read the docs
16:10.09brlcadwee, fun
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16:50.14brlcadinitial testing of using constant integers for X, Y, Z, etc seems to give about a 40% decrease in performance (at least on unoptimized) .. testing at least one other platform and optimized
16:51.12brlcadsupposes that is more intended for Ralith who is not here
16:51.47prasad_i wont be able to make it to siggraph :(
16:53.51brlcadprasad_: ahh, shame
16:54.29brlcadI'm sure the girls will cry when I tell them you couldn't be there
16:57.04mafmbrlcad: why Ralith? I can't see traces of those changes in the diffs
16:57.24brlcadmafm: it was a discussion we were having a few days ago
16:58.31brlcadthe changes weren't committed
16:58.37brlcad(*gasp* -- changes to the core ray-trace or numerics library that might affect performance shouldn't be committed without testing)
16:59.28mafmah OK
16:59.37brlcadit's come up before, so it was worth testing out to see what the impact would be like .. alas it looks like what we do is for a very good reason (and should probably be documented as such)
17:00.06brlcadit's the kind of thing you don't remember 10 years later, no matter how intuitive it seems 'today'
17:04.37brlcadneeds faster computers
17:05.52prasad_indeed :(
17:06.14prasad_but we'll prolly unveil gfx on iphone/mobile there
17:06.17mafmwhat do you use instead of const int? macros/straight numbers?
17:06.55brlcadyes
17:07.34brlcadI'm expecting optimized to do much better, but how much better is the question
17:14.09starseekerbrlcad:  What was the name of that FB variable again?
17:17.38mafmhmm
17:17.52mafmI thought that the compiler would treat const int as a macro
17:18.04brlcadstarseeker: FB_FILE ?
17:18.35starseekerIs that the remote display one?
17:18.38starseekerthat wasn't working?
17:18.47brlcadwell yes and no
17:19.02brlcadFB_FILE is simply an alternative to using the -F option with all the tools
17:19.23brlcadit's having an FB_FILE or a -F using the remote interface that seems bused
17:20.12brlcadrt -Flocalhost:0 or rt -Fbzflag.bz:/dev/X:0, etc
17:20.21brlcadfbhelp
17:23.38starseekerhmm - confirmed, it didn't like the remote addy
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17:25.49starseekerinteresting - the pkg_open printing shows the name of the target host minus one character
17:26.33starseekere.g. pkg_open(machin,remotefb): unknown service instead of pkg_open(machine,remotefb): unknown service
17:32.48starseekerprods CIA
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18:26.08mafmbrlcad: did you talk anything with Ralith about modifying the CMakeFile to include BRL-CAD root?
18:26.38mafmor the TCL includes?
18:27.08mafmI wouldn't think of any reason why TCL/TK would be necessary for this project
18:31.04homovulgarishowdy mafm :)
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18:35.46mafmhi homovulgaris, everything all right?
18:36.40homovulgaris:)
18:39.07homovulgarispretty much
18:39.39homovulgarismy broadband has now a maximum limit of 512 kbps.. what is broad about that :|
18:40.55mafmI could live with less than that, if bills were smaller :)
18:44.03starseekeror if there were less free software to upgrade regularly ;-)
18:44.34mafmnope, I rarely update
18:45.25homovulgarislooking at an apt-get dist-upgrade size of 1289 MB right now
18:45.50starseekerheh - easier when you don't use Gentoo
18:46.03starseeker's distro downloads the sources for everything and compiles - somewhat bigger
18:46.41mafmoh, sure
18:46.45mafmDebian ftw :P
18:47.04starseekerNah, I like knowing everything is self consistent ;-)
18:47.15mafmI use unstable but don't update unless it's necessary feature-wise, or I'm bored and not in the middle of important projects
18:49.51starseekerIf I were to use a binary distro though, it would be Debian or Ubuntu
18:51.17mafmand Debian is pretty consistent
18:51.33mafmint random { return 4; }
18:51.35mafm:)
18:51.48mafmrandom()* even
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18:58.14homovulgarisibot says i have a message awaiting from brlcad .. how do i read ? :| irc noob
19:02.42mafmread 1, maybe
19:03.45mafmhave to go now, see you later folks
19:03.48homovulgaris:) nope
19:03.55homovulgarisand :P
19:03.58homovulgaris~read
19:03.59ibotACTION reads Lord of the rings
19:04.22homovulgarisciao mafm
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19:57.15pacman87~botmail
19:57.41pacman87~botmail read
19:57.53pacman87homovulgaris: ^^
19:58.47homovulgaris:) grr..
19:58.54homovulgaris~botmail read
19:59.28homovulgarishmm.. that was 7d 9hours ago
20:02.42CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r32263 10/brlcad/trunk/TODO: Add note about possibility of level of detail based wireframe drawing.
20:02.50starseekerhugs CIA-23
20:03.16homovulgariswhy is cia.vc having so much trouble these days
20:03.36starseekernot sure.  It is a complex chain to keep up
20:03.37CIA-23hugs starseeker
22:03.09CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03homovulgaris * r32264 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libpc/ (15 files): renaming PCSet to VCSet for Variable-Constraint set since it is precisely what VCSet is, also necessary for adding a Parameter abstraction over the Variables . A vector is a collection of 3 variables for instance
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23:03.17brlcadstarseeker: ah, then you might have found the bug -- an off-by-one on the string processing
23:08.22brlcadstarseeker: yep
23:08.43brlcadthey're good as-is if the docs are all updated/committed
23:08.57brlcaddon't forget to tag it at that point
23:09.12starseeker_Right - tag it in the branch?
23:09.41brlcadsvn's idea of a tag is just a dir-to-dir cp
23:09.58brlcadbut yeah, cp/tagging off the branch dir to the tags dir
23:10.06starseeker_got it
23:15.44CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r32265 10/brlcad/trunk/src/adrt/librender/Makefile.am: uses vmath.h so link libbn
23:16.08CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r32266 10/brlcad/trunk/src/conv/Makefile.am: uses vmath.h so link libbn
23:17.15CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r32267 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libbu/convert.c: doesn't need/use vmath.h
23:18.13CIA-23BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r32268 10/brlcad/trunk/src/util/Makefile.am: uses vmath.h so link libbn
23:53.57starseeker_brlcad:  Did you want to back something out of mged before I tag?
23:54.08brlcadah, yes

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