| 00:11.49 | yukonbob | Ralith: re: source -- yes. It's in DocBook format, suitable for html if you like. |
| 00:12.06 | yukonbob | grab the distro from svn and checkout /doc |
| 00:12.16 | yukonbob | s/checkout/look in/ |
| 00:12.20 | yukonbob | ~svn |
| 00:12.20 | ibot | Subversion (aka SVN) is version control software that aims to be a better CVS than CVS. See http://subversion.tigris.org/. |
| 00:12.55 | yukonbob | ~distribution |
| 00:12.55 | ibot | distribution is probably a collection of goodies built around a kernel, also a whole lot of infrastructure and people. |
| 00:13.00 | yukonbob | gah |
| 00:13.19 | pacman87 | ~cadsvn |
| 00:13.20 | ibot | To obtain BRL-CAD from Subversion: svn checkout https://brlcad.svn.sourceforge.net/svnroot/brlcad/brlcad/trunk brlcad |
| 00:13.39 | yukonbob | ya, what he said. |
| 00:13.43 | yukonbob | :P |
| 00:13.48 | yukonbob | pacman87: hi :) |
| 00:13.53 | pacman87 | yukonbob: howdy |
| 00:14.02 | yukonbob | happy friday |
| 00:14.25 | CIA-60 | BRL-CAD: 03andrecastelo * r31803 10/brlcad/trunk/misc/win32-msvc9/libged/libged.vcproj: Added files to libged.vcproj. |
| 00:17.49 | Ralith | yukonbob: cool, tanks. Guess you wouldn't know where to find technical docs on the file format? |
| 00:22.45 | yukonbob | well, there's the source, for one -- otherwise, I don't think I've personally come across a technical paper describing it, no... |
| 00:22.58 | pacman87 | g2asc? |
| 00:25.58 | Ralith | what about it? |
| 00:25.59 | Ralith | also, brb |
| 00:26.16 | Ralith | yukonbob: so long as the relevant code's well commented that's not too bad. |
| 00:36.24 | brlcad | Ralith: no, v5 is the current .g file format revision |
| 00:36.36 | brlcad | the database format is versioned separately from the rest of brl-cad |
| 00:37.01 | brlcad | v4 and v5 are all that you'd ever encounter |
| 00:37.26 | brlcad | it's been v5 since about release 5.0 (just coincidence they match) |
| 00:37.41 | brlcad | andrecastelo: he's on vacation, gets back tomorrow |
| 00:38.34 | brlcad | Ralith: and docs for the .g format are on the website, under documentation iirc |
| 00:38.46 | brlcad | best reference are the headers and sources, though |
| 00:39.00 | brlcad | there are a few minor items out of sync |
| 01:22.32 | Ralith | Ah, I thought the versioning thing might be the case. |
| 01:30.18 | andrecastelo | brlcad: hm ok ok :D |
| 01:30.36 | andrecastelo | I was kind of worried since the mid term evaluations end monday |
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| 02:00.48 | brlcad | starseeker: other huge payoff I forgot to mention, decoupling from X11 on Mac -- having a "BRL-CAD Shell" and MGED that work identical and natively on Mac and Windows |
| 02:01.15 | brlcad | andrecastelo: no worries on your part, the admins back the mentors up if needed |
| 02:01.41 | Ralith | that reminds me |
| 02:02.06 | Ralith | why does brl-cad have its own command window thing instead of just opening the shell in the terminal it was launched from? |
| 02:02.30 | pacman87 | Ralith: that's classic mode |
| 02:02.33 | pacman87 | mged -c |
| 02:02.52 | Ralith | oh, cool. |
| 02:03.42 | brlcad | you can run both simultaneously too |
| 02:03.57 | brlcad | mged -c, select nu or X, then run "gui" |
| 02:04.50 | brlcad | another fun way, mged -c, select nu or X, then run "attach X" for as many window views as you want |
| 02:07.31 | Ralith | fun! |
| 02:09.08 | Ralith | how hard would it be to get the command equivalent of arbitrary GUI actions automatically? |
| 02:15.28 | brlcad | depends which gui actions, what actions they're taking |
| 02:15.48 | brlcad | some of the tcl logic is actually processed in tcl for the tcl/tk interface |
| 02:15.54 | brlcad | most of it isn't though |
| 02:16.21 | Ralith | was imagining that it might be educational to have that sort of thing dumped to stdout or somewhere every time an action was performed |
| 02:16.26 | brlcad | for editing, you can get most of the options on the faceplate with the 'press' command |
| 02:16.40 | brlcad | the geometry browser does exactly that |
| 02:17.03 | brlcad | it'll output every command that corresponds to what it's showing |
| 02:17.24 | brlcad | the main menu actions, though, are a hybrid mix |
| 02:17.30 | Ralith | neat |
| 02:17.35 | Ralith | kk |
| 02:17.57 | brlcad | "press help" to get a list of built-in actions press supports |
| 02:18.56 | brlcad | if you "sed some_primitive" .. it goes into edit mode, with the faceplate gui enabled, you get a menu in the graphics context. you can run: press "Menu Option" to press most of the edit operations and run the "p" command or mouse edit from there |
| 02:19.46 | Ralith | sounds useful |
| 02:19.50 | Ralith | especially if I ever have to script something |
| 02:25.22 | brlcad | yep |
| 02:25.51 | brlcad | the mged quick reference card is a good starting point for learning what commands are available, and their categorization |
| 02:25.56 | brlcad | (tis on the website) |
| 02:26.38 | brlcad | ~botmail for mafm: http://www.ogre3d.org/docs/api/html/classOgre_1_1ManualObject.html .. looks like what we'd need for rendering wireframes/points manually |
| 02:27.50 | Ralith | Hm. In following the tutorials in the introduction to mged, it's apparent that the raytracer makes visible objects which are arguably hidden, such as the intersection between a two objects rendered along with the difference between two objects taken in both directions. |
| 02:27.54 | Ralith | Is this intentional? |
| 02:31.11 | brlcad | hm? |
| 02:32.37 | brlcad | what section/page? |
| 02:32.51 | Ralith | when you create a rcc, then a sph with a centerpoint on the center of the top of the rcc and a radius equal to that of the rcc, then render sph + rcc (an inverted dome) and sph - rcc (an upright dome) and rcc - sph (a cylinder with an inverted dome cutout) you can see a sliver of the sph + rcc. |
| 02:32.58 | Ralith | sec |
| 02:33.17 | brlcad | or screenshot |
| 02:33.17 | Ralith | pdf page 57 == real page 45 |
| 02:33.28 | Ralith | said sliver is visible both in the image in the pdf and in the actual rendering |
| 02:38.30 | brlcad | ah! I see what you're getting at |
| 02:39.27 | brlcad | they're not hidden, for that particular intersection it just numerically happens to work out that there is overlap on the tangency (which naturally extends all the way to the surface) |
| 02:40.12 | Ralith | tangency? |
| 02:40.46 | brlcad | where the cynlinder meets the sphere, it's perfectly tangent to the sphere's surface |
| 02:41.21 | brlcad | so there is a thin sliver of material there where they both exist on the exterior |
| 02:41.34 | Ralith | isn't that infinitely thin, though? |
| 02:41.40 | Ralith | and therefore invisible? |
| 02:41.51 | Ralith | or does the raytracer make approximations necessary for performance reasons? |
| 02:42.37 | brlcad | sure, that sliver's thickness numerically approaches being infinitely thin with inifinite precision arithmetic |
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| 02:43.15 | brlcad | but yes, performing infininte precision or even fixed precision is two-to-three orders of magnitude slower than floating point |
| 02:43.16 | Ralith | ahh. |
| 02:43.36 | Ralith | so it's proportional to the actual way the math is being performed. |
| 02:43.37 | Ralith | neat! |
| 02:43.50 | Ralith | thanks for the in-depth answer |
| 02:44.23 | brlcad | and for the sake of being a *solid* modeling engine and a solid model ray-tracer, you want all sements and objects have some real non-infinite thickness when sampled for analytic purposes |
| 02:44.34 | Ralith | I had no idea that that was the sort of place floating point imprecision became visible, but I guess if it's reasonable anywhere it's places like that. |
| 02:45.16 | Ralith | yeah, I thought it might actually be intentional for those reasons, but sacrificing accuracy because of that alone seemed strange. |
| 02:45.39 | brlcad | oh yeah, floating point precision can wreak absolute hell if it's not managed consistently and robust -- our librt library goes through extensive hoops to validate and do its best to stabilize the numerics |
| 02:57.29 | Ralith | the primitive selection menu appears to be broken in the latest release. |
| 02:57.44 | Ralith | when I click an item, the console gives this error: |
| 02:57.45 | Ralith | db_lookup(-n) failed: -n does not exist |
| 02:57.45 | Ralith | bgerror failed to handle background error. |
| 02:57.45 | Ralith | Original error: |
| 02:57.45 | Ralith | Error in bgerror: window name "_secErrorDialog" already exists in parent |
| 03:25.29 | Ralith | brlcad: any ideas? |
| 04:20.53 | Ralith | I can't work out how to do this on the command line, so it's blocking my use of brl-cad just as I was learning enough to do cool things :/ |
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| 18:47.46 | Ralith | anybody about? |
| 18:49.24 | Ralith | I'm getting progress-halting errors when progressing through the goblet tutorial |
| 18:52.06 | Ralith | Specifically, when I try to use the GUI primitive selection tool, I get the following errors (one is printed each time I click on a primitive in the list): http://codepad.org/YHA1WcK4 |
| 19:08.21 | Ralith | ah, *there's* the command line version. The gui bug is still annoying, though. |
| 19:15.46 | Ralith | also, occasionally the command window opens at a very small size. |
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| 20:32.57 | ``Erik | O.o |
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| 20:57.18 | brlcad | Ralith: howdy |
| 20:58.53 | brlcad | yeah, that's a known bug that happened in the latest release, you can either revert to a previous binary or .. |
| 20:59.03 | brlcad | follow the suggestion I mention here: http://sourceforge.net/forum/message.php?msg_id=5088783 |
| 21:16.04 | Ralith | cool, thank |
| 21:16.04 | Ralith | s |
| 21:44.42 | brlcad | dives into obscene quantities of sushi he picked up on the way home |
| 21:52.21 | ``Erik | heh |
| 21:52.26 | ``Erik | that tofi place? |
| 22:27.04 | Ralith | mm, sushi |
| 22:45.49 | brlcad | yeah, pretty decent |
| 22:46.06 | brlcad | huge thick pieces of sashimi |
| 22:46.48 | Ralith | I need to get more good sushi |
| 22:46.56 | Ralith | standard store stuff sucks |
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