| 00:57.31 | brlcad | looks like you all got the jist of oed |
| 00:58.48 | brlcad | the matrix is placed between the lhs and the rhs effectively modifying the object immediately to the right in the context of the object/path to the left |
| 01:01.51 | brlcad | the reason/need for specifying all the way down to a primitive is in-part to utilize an existing coordinate reference as a control point, and in-part an implementation detail of the fact that combinations don't actually have coordinates |
| 01:10.56 | *** join/#brlcad iraytrace (n=iraytrac@155.98.20.220) |
| 01:17.42 | starseeker | brlcad: I tried my hand at writing a tutorial in docbook |
| 01:55.30 | louipc | did it break? |
| 02:04.12 | starseeker | apparently |
| 02:05.36 | starseeker | docbook is not plug and play - everyone stores their dtd files and whatnot everywhere, and without pointing to the correct one and invoking the correct chicken sacrificial dance options you get errors... |
| 02:06.02 | louipc | hah sounds messy |
| 02:06.30 | starseeker | When it works it's OK, but it's not NEARLY as plug and play as tetex/texlive |
| 02:06.53 | starseeker | Not that they're any less messy, but at least it's hidden from the users |
| 02:25.02 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30376 10/brlcad/trunk/sh/ (16 files): update the indentation ws style of the shell scripts. |
| 02:30.04 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30377 10/brlcad/trunk/sh/indent.sh: ignore sh/ dir scripts. it gets almost as many wrong as it gets right due to quirky scriptisms. |
| 02:33.53 | brlcad | it doesn't need to be robust, just have to set everything up once and in one place for the most part |
| 02:36.00 | brlcad | either way, like I said before -- there are several other pragmatic reasons why docbook is the format of choice (and the reason many major projects have adopted it successfully) .. |
| 02:37.34 | brlcad | never said it was easy to set the toolchain up, but having done it before several times in the past I can say that really isn't the hardest part (which is actually converting the docs in a useful manner and setting up xslt/dsssl styles) |
| 02:39.09 | starseeker | Oh, I know - I'm not arguing against docbook |
| 02:39.19 | brlcad | ESR has a really nice writeup that goes into some of the reasons in a condensed form as well as just provides a decent tutorial |
| 02:39.24 | starseeker | I'm just annoyed at whoever is building the toolchain |
| 02:39.33 | brlcad | even talks about it as it pertains to Tex |
| 02:39.36 | brlcad | http://tldp.org/HOWTO/html_single/DocBook-Demystification-HOWTO/ |
| 02:39.54 | brlcad | yeah, the tools aren't robust yet, and the format keeps getting changed |
| 02:40.13 | brlcad | like dealing with html 1 and 2 back in the days with the variety of (broken) browsers |
| 02:40.57 | starseeker | brlcad: Do you happen to have a working jadetex setup at the moment? |
| 02:41.34 | brlcad | that's probably the crux of the problem |
| 02:41.37 | brlcad | forget dsssl |
| 02:41.40 | starseeker | I'd like to sent you my oed writeup to see if it looks useful, but I can't generate a pdf right now |
| 02:41.43 | louipc | xsl doesn't seem too tough |
| 02:41.46 | brlcad | (i.e. forget jade) |
| 02:41.57 | brlcad | yeah, xsl is probably a LOT easier to deal with |
| 02:42.32 | brlcad | as it avoids the whole sgml heritage in jade that lets you set up nearly arbitrary mappings/translations but makes things utterly complex in the process |
| 02:43.51 | brlcad | apt-get install xmlto |
| 02:44.20 | brlcad | emerge xmlto |
| 02:44.43 | louipc | pacman -S xmlto |
| 02:45.43 | brlcad | probably also want xsltproc and/or fop |
| 02:46.55 | brlcad | (xsltproc is in the libxslt package usually) |
| 02:48.18 | louipc | cool |
| 02:49.29 | louipc | maybe docbook-xsl, docbook-xml as well |
| 02:50.26 | brlcad | yeah, presumably premade xsl styles for html/pdf/etc and the various xml dtd's? |
| 02:52.38 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30378 10/brlcad/trunk/sh/indent.sh: know what, just screw sh files. not worth it -- they don't generally matter. |
| 02:53.02 | louipc | yep |
| 02:55.50 | brlcad | just installed both on .bz |
| 03:00.17 | starseeker | Grr - who on gentoo is managing the tex environment?? |
| 03:01.08 | brlcad | installing a few more things |
| 03:01.28 | brlcad | (like tetex) |
| 03:02.28 | starseeker | Surprising - this isn't like gentoo |
| 03:03.31 | brlcad | did you see how firebird did their toolchain? |
| 03:04.02 | starseeker | I haven't had a chance to dig into it yet - this oed thing was kinda a "spur of the moment" response to the problem at hand |
| 03:04.21 | starseeker | should have realized it would open the docbook can of worms |
| 03:04.22 | brlcad | does it make sense now? |
| 03:05.23 | brlcad | mostly because there are several things that need to be known for a matrix to be applied whether implicitly or explicitly, and oed approaches it from an existing data perspective that fits in with some of the other commands |
| 03:05.36 | starseeker | Yes, I think so |
| 03:05.50 | brlcad | (arcs, btw, are paths .. that's a horrible inconsistency that can be confusing) |
| 03:06.31 | starseeker | If I ever get this tutorial converted to a pdf you can take a look - it's basically me explaining it to myself and (hopefully) doing the same for others usefully |
| 03:07.35 | starseeker | Where are you storing the dtd files? |
| 03:08.23 | brlcad | ah ghod.. that's horrible .. it's trying to pull in X11 |
| 03:08.28 | brlcad | that ain't gonna fly |
| 03:08.59 | brlcad | mm.. dunno where it put them actually, probably somewhere under /usr/local/share |
| 03:09.54 | brlcad | yep, /usr/local/share/xml/docbook |
| 03:10.24 | starseeker | heh - rather different from my /usr/share/sgml/docbook/xml-dtd-4.4 |
| 03:11.07 | brlcad | there's a /usr/local/share/sgml/docbook too but that has the sgml variants (want to use the xml ones) |
| 03:13.40 | starseeker | hmm - /usr/local/share/xmlto/format/docbook/../fo/pdf: Can't open /usr/local/share/xmlto/format/docbook/../fo/pdf: No such file or directory |
| 03:14.07 | starseeker | does exist without the .. though |
| 03:14.27 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30379 10/brlcad/trunk/bench/lgt.sh: ws indent style |
| 03:15.35 | brlcad | where are you getting .. from? |
| 03:15.59 | starseeker | error being spit out by xmlto |
| 03:16.07 | starseeker | on bz |
| 03:16.16 | brlcad | what's the command? |
| 03:16.26 | starseeker | xmlto pdf oed_doc.xml |
| 03:16.47 | starseeker | wait, I'm an idiot |
| 03:16.50 | starseeker | one sec... |
| 03:17.08 | starseeker | no, reproduced itself |
| 03:19.02 | brlcad | hm, well I can do the easy fix and just put fo/pdf where it's looking for it |
| 03:19.26 | starseeker | works for me |
| 03:20.09 | brlcad | hm? |
| 03:20.36 | starseeker | er - whatever you want to do :-) |
| 03:20.57 | starseeker | Given sufficient time I can probably straighten out my home box if you'd rather not clutter up bz |
| 03:21.53 | brlcad | it's not clutter, that's one of the primary functions of the box |
| 03:22.02 | brlcad | (cad-related stuff) |
| 03:26.03 | brlcad | aha! |
| 03:26.12 | brlcad | the .. is coming from within the formatter |
| 03:26.16 | brlcad | they're just scripts |
| 03:31.06 | starseeker | Hmm - now it's recursively calling ../fo and ends up with a filename too long error with a lot of ../fo s in it |
| 03:37.31 | brlcad | yeah, that was my "fix" |
| 03:37.33 | brlcad | i found the problem |
| 03:37.45 | brlcad | stale build files .. it didn't install everything |
| 03:38.18 | brlcad | dunno if i had a previous xmlto version installed or something, but there is supposed to be a ../fo/ dir (and it's in their source tarball) .. reinstalling with a patch |
| 03:40.26 | brlcad | woot |
| 03:40.27 | brlcad | http://my.brlcad.org/tmp/oed/ |
| 03:40.53 | brlcad | missing a tool for pdf |
| 03:42.43 | starseeker | Wow that's ugly - I must have my markup messed up |
| 03:43.25 | starseeker | Thanks brlcad for powering through it! |
| 03:45.26 | starseeker | Do I need a para for each command? (ick) |
| 03:48.06 | yukonbob | starseeker: or perhaps a complete blank link between? |
| 03:49.02 | starseeker | Hmm - apparently the "literal" tag lies |
| 03:50.42 | yukonbob | programlisting may be useful too.. |
| 03:54.56 | brlcad | starseeker: it's not the tag -- that is the stylesheet |
| 03:55.09 | brlcad | you're just getting a generic stylesheet from xmlto |
| 03:55.33 | starseeker | Oh, ok |
| 03:55.37 | brlcad | but yeah, there very likely are other taggins needed |
| 03:56.11 | starseeker | yukonbob: That's the early draft - I was hoping to have brlcad tear it up first |
| 03:57.34 | brlcad | yeah, you're not supposed to actually *read* it .. :) that was just to see the conversion |
| 03:58.41 | yukonbob | heh -- should I keep the '"press accept" is extraneous when "accept" will do what you want' to myself too? |
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| 03:59.12 | starseeker | I dunno - do we want to keep the "press *" convention going? |
| 04:00.11 | brlcad | accept/reject are the only two iirc that have shortcuts |
| 04:00.38 | brlcad | otherwise there's several dozen other things you can "press" that don't have any other command that provides that feature |
| 04:04.09 | starseeker | arrrrrgh |
| 04:04.43 | starseeker | how ironic considering I thought Tex would be the stable part of this... |
| 04:04.49 | yukonbob | heh |
| 04:10.44 | yukonbob | heh -- esr's document say's "[this] is aimed at authors [...] on Linux, but should be useful for people [...] on other Unixes as well" |
| 04:22.19 | yukonbob | starseeker: did you run the xmlto, or did brl-cad? |
| 04:22.26 | starseeker | he did |
| 04:22.28 | louipc | you poor gentoo users |
| 04:22.40 | yukonbob | starseeker: ok -- good night :) |
| 04:22.53 | starseeker | louipc: Normally everything does well - docbook seems to be a weakness for some reason... |
| 04:23.34 | starseeker | louipc: I'll take a closer look at what firebird does tomorrow |
| 04:23.45 | starseeker | er brlcad rather |
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| 04:29.23 | brlcad | howdy iraytrace |
| 04:29.36 | iraytrace | Evening! |
| 04:29.46 | brlcad | how's that class? |
| 04:30.01 | brlcad | (rtrt) |
| 04:30.20 | iraytrace | 1 is a pain in the (ahem) 1 is great, 1 interesting but tedious |
| 04:30.35 | iraytrace | rtrt is great |
| 04:31.06 | iraytrace | about to do HF and acceleration structures |
| 04:32.19 | iraytrace | congrats at putting machine.h to rest |
| 04:33.10 | brlcad | still have just a little more to do, but might even get a dbupgrade that works on non-native v4 databases working soon |
| 04:33.21 | brlcad | now that it can pretty much pick at run-time |
| 04:33.38 | brlcad | as well as mac universal binaries |
| 04:33.41 | iraytrace | that would be *kewl* |
| 04:35.39 | iraytrace | Touched a MacBook Air for the first time today. It's a lot more sturdy than I had feared it might be. |
| 04:36.53 | brlcad | starseeker: the tex tools it needed are installed now, but it dies somewhere in the tex processing so more work/learning still needed |
| 04:37.21 | yukonbob | brlcad: you installed fop as well? |
| 04:37.25 | brlcad | iraytrace: yeah, I saw one in an apple store a little while back. pretty slick |
| 04:37.52 | iraytrace | What's needing TeX? |
| 04:38.34 | louipc | I need to put together a decent resume for myself hmm |
| 04:38.36 | brlcad | yukonbob: not yet, it's got a doosie of a dep |
| 04:38.50 | brlcad | iraytrace: some docbook processing tools |
| 04:39.12 | yukonbob | brlcad: that's why I ended up working through the jadetex issues instead :P |
| 04:41.03 | brlcad | just waiting on the dep to download |
| 04:41.08 | yukonbob | good luck. Enjoy the Java ;) |
| 04:42.00 | brlcad | fop is actually what we used many years ago when there were *no* decent parser tools .. and it actually did work, and worked well.. |
| 04:43.12 | yukonbob | you mean FO parsers? |
| 04:43.23 | yukonbob | afaik, it's _still_ the only FO parser |
| 04:43.48 | brlcad | I mean going from docbook through FOP to various formats |
| 04:50.42 | starseeker | Ah - HA! |
| 04:51.46 | starseeker | xmlto fo oed_doc.xml; fop oed_doc.fo -pdf oed_doc.pdf |
| 04:53.26 | starseeker | brlcad: Should we make our own stylesheet for "official" BRL-CAD stuff, or does someone out there have one you like? |
| 05:08.02 | louipc | starseeker: hey you know if you're actually serious about going to debian you ought to give arch linux a try first ;) |
| 05:09.05 | starseeker | Heh |
| 05:09.30 | starseeker | OK, this looks slightly less horrid (again a formatting demo): http://my.bzflag.bz/~starseeker/oed_doc-draft.pdf |
| 05:17.05 | louipc | man that l (letter L) looks exactly like a 1 (number one) |
| 05:17.14 | louipc | l comb1.c |
| 05:18.45 | starseeker | I'll add a note about that |
| 05:19.14 | starseeker | And now I really do need to go to bed - at least I can sleep now :-) |
| 05:19.19 | starseeker | yay pdf... |
| 05:19.41 | brlcad | woot |
| 05:19.44 | louipc | the font it is |
| 05:19.48 | louipc | starseeker: very nice though |
| 05:24.01 | Axman6 | starseeker: i hope that was a serious yay... |
| 05:26.28 | brlcad | starseeker: 'yes' .. i'm sure there's a stylesheet out there that would be suitable if not a great start |
| 05:27.05 | brlcad | heck, even a variant of that clean one you just used isn't all that bad for starters if some of the quirks can be fixed |
| 05:37.30 | brlcad | mm.. the firebird pdf style is pretty nice |
| 05:51.41 | PrezKennedy | course we have a Russian guy writing them... |
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| 06:20.47 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30380 10/brlcad/trunk/include/opennurbs_ext.h: C++ mode |
| 06:21.37 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30381 10/brlcad/trunk/sh/footer.sh: C or C++ files should have the c-file-style set to stroustrup |
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| 11:18.13 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30382 10/brlcad/trunk/Makefile.am: |
| 11:18.13 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: nifty, the top-level makefile will obey a DISTCHECK_CONFIGURE_FLAGS directive. |
| 11:18.13 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: make --enable-all one of the things it does during distcheck so that all files |
| 11:18.13 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: are included in the dist and the compilation of everything is tested. |
| 11:19.40 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30383 10/brlcad/trunk/include/conf/PATCH: bump to a .2 patch revision for ajem release testing (this is 7.12.0 prerelease testing) |
| 11:22.26 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30384 10/brlcad/trunk/include/conf/PATCH: make the ajem test rev unique, bump it up again |
| 11:23.25 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30385 10/brlcad/trunk/src/other/libpng/Makefile.am: extra dist mismatch |
| 11:33.53 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * r30386 10/brlcad/trunk/include/ (bu.h config_win.h): this should solve the MS Visual Studio inline problem: define (the C) inline as the Microsoft specific __inline in config_win.h |
| 11:34.25 | d_rossberg | i hope this works for Bob too |
| 11:34.39 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r30387 10/brlcad/trunk/src/other/ (4 files in 4 dirs): few additional files detected missing from the dist |
| 11:35.19 | brlcad | yeah, I really think he was just hacking down the wrong path |
| 11:35.43 | brlcad | really shouldn't have needed those tcl/tk mods to make inline work .. they were working! |
| 11:35.44 | clock_ | They are preparing to shoot a satellite :) |
| 11:36.06 | clock_ | shoot down a satellite |
| 11:57.44 | starseeker | Axman6: Indeed it was a serious yay :-) |
| 11:57.58 | Axman6 | excellent :P |
| 11:58.23 | d_rossberg | brlcad: in standard-tcl the VS inline=__inline is set as a -D compiler parameter |
| 13:44.37 | brlcad | d_rossberg: good to know, maybe that is all that is needed for the C-side too in config_win.h |
| 13:56.03 | d_rossberg | i put the inline=__inline in the config_win.h C (i.e. !__cplusplus) branch |
| 14:21.27 | ``Erik | *yawrgn* |
| 14:21.39 | ``Erik | iraytrace stayed for more than 5 seconds! |
| 14:22.14 | ``Erik | <-- ponders logging into his box and tweaking the irc client say it plays the old 'impossible mission' intro soundbyte... "stay a while... stayyyy FOREEVVEEEERRRRRRRRR" |
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| 19:21.39 | ``Erik | wow, I feel retarded |
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| 22:11.58 | ``Erik | hehehe nice... "*BSD is for People who Love *nix; Linux is for People who Hate Windows" |