| 01:08.07 | louipc | was archer supposed to work in linux on 7.10.4? |
| 01:13.39 | louipc | hmm nothing in NEWS I guess not |
| 01:18.09 | ``Erik | it's a notional prototype, there's no active development in that direction |
| 01:20.10 | louipc | ah. so no intent to fully develop and support it? |
| 01:53.26 | ``Erik | don't think so *shrug* |
| 02:31.42 | brlcad | louipc: if developers step up to work on it, sure |
| 02:32.15 | brlcad | am *I* going to work on it -- not directly more than to get it working (which I did) or to help someone else work on it |
| 02:32.29 | brlcad | Bob's certainly interested in working on it, and has been making progress in that area |
| 02:32.47 | brlcad | archer is very closely tied to mged so things done for one often affect the other regardless |
| 02:32.53 | louipc | I'd like to work on something but I'm finding it all too overwhelming to find something that I can begin to understand... |
| 02:34.02 | louipc | ah |
| 02:34.54 | yukonbob | brlcad: briefly, can you tell me what bwish is supposed to do? It's got some supporting libs linked in to give it some X functionality? |
| 02:35.08 | louipc | yukonbob: looks like it's mged's shell |
| 02:35.41 | yukonbob | louipc: well -- it's not _strictly_ necessary because I stripped it from my builds... |
| 02:35.46 | louipc | I was playing around with it when I was trying to get archer working :/ |
| 02:35.53 | louipc | hmm |
| 02:36.17 | louipc | oh yeah and it opens up a little window |
| 02:36.18 | yukonbob | I know it's a dependency of archer -- from CIA postings here... |
| 02:36.22 | louipc | which is blank... |
| 02:36.48 | yukonbob | *wish == WIndowing SHell -> for Tk. |
| 02:37.08 | louipc | brlcad-wish? |
| 02:37.25 | louipc | heh yep wish does the same little window |
| 02:37.42 | louipc | but doesn't have mged commands |
| 02:41.15 | yukonbob | button .b; .b configure -text bye -command {puts "ok, bye.";exit}; pack .b |
| 02:43.52 | brlcad | louipc: well I'd be glad to help get you started on anything that interests you |
| 02:44.09 | brlcad | what are your constraints/interests? |
| 02:44.49 | brlcad | yukonbob: bob and I have actually been talking recently quite a bit about bwish/btclsh and their future, related to some of the stuff you and I talked about a while back |
| 02:45.01 | brlcad | bwish is to wish as btclsh is to tclsh |
| 02:45.27 | brlcad | preloads the brlcad libraries and sets up the auto_path with all of our various extensions |
| 02:46.11 | brlcad | it was only very recently made a dependency of archer, part of making it consistent with the other brl-cad tools that use btclsh/bwish |
| 02:46.18 | yukonbob | nice -- /me had got the lib to load as a [package require foo], but hadn't prefaced the routines w/ proper Tcl glue... |
| 02:47.07 | brlcad | we actually got it working so that btclsh can eventually go away |
| 02:47.19 | brlcad | found a way to reliaby generate the tclIndex files prior to install |
| 02:47.38 | yukonbob | that was my ultimate goal -- no more btclsh, bwish, just a package -- removes some cruft from the build/install... |
| 02:47.44 | yukonbob | mkIndex? |
| 02:48.26 | brlcad | more than that, have to package require Itcl and Iwidgets for it to pick up all the right symbols |
| 02:48.43 | brlcad | and to load itcl *prior* to install, is a bit of a trick sometimes |
| 02:49.17 | brlcad | that's one of the things btclsh takes care of, setting up an auto_path that works whether installed or not |
| 02:50.01 | *** join/#brlcad Twingy (n=justin@74.92.144.217) |
| 02:50.03 | brlcad | but I think I see a way to have them generate properly now with a fair bit of configure script detecting |
| 02:50.26 | Twingy | foshizzle |
| 02:50.32 | brlcad | what up g |
| 02:50.53 | Twingy | school and autopilot stuff |
| 02:51.19 | Twingy | I need to get my hpc account reactivated |
| 02:51.21 | brlcad | tea to the double you in G to the why |
| 02:51.42 | Twingy | they own the license for simulink |
| 02:53.06 | brlcad | yukonbob: as for loading the brl-cad libs, that ones a fair bit more work -- there are fortunately *_Init() routines for all of the libs (so you can load the lib), but have to generate the pkgIndex.tcl files with proper loads |
| 02:53.36 | yukonbob | brlcad: I've not browsed the source -- do you know how many libs you're talking about? |
| 02:54.34 | brlcad | yukonbob: look at src/bwish/main.c .. the Cad_AppInit() shows the bulk of what btclsh provides including the various libs |
| 02:54.47 | *** join/#brlcad Twingy (n=justin@74.92.144.217) |
| 02:54.54 | yukonbob | ;), rather |
| 02:55.12 | brlcad | at a glance, it's dm, fb, bn, bu, rt |
| 02:55.18 | brlcad | for the cad libs |
| 02:56.27 | brlcad | then tcl, tk, itcl, itk, iwidgets, and blt for the tcl libs |
| 02:56.42 | brlcad | though some of those are optional for btclsh (bwish uses them all) |
| 02:58.27 | yukonbob | what I was thinking of is just using wish/tclsh, and including the a wrapper for the non-tcl components, or ea. non-tcl lib independently, so one could: tclsh, % package require itk; package require iwidgets... etc. and [package require brllib], which would have dm, fb, bn, etc. |
| 02:58.27 | brlcad | so the first step, which I think I see how to do now, is to get the compilation using tclsh instead of btclsh during compilation |
| 02:59.03 | brlcad | yeah, that would be the ultimate goal |
| 02:59.55 | brlcad | getting that to work is going to be interesting, but seems doable if the indexes can be generated properly |
| 03:00.23 | yukonbob | brlcad: I may be naive, but I don't think that's going to be a big deal. |
| 03:00.24 | brlcad | like I said, the harder problem is making it so package require *anything* actually works before *anything* is installed |
| 03:01.16 | brlcad | oh, I forgot -- the other thing that btclsh provides which tclsh doesn't provide (and is EXCEPTIONALLY annoying when you try to go back to it) is cursor control |
| 03:01.25 | yukonbob | brlcad: well, there's "load /path/to/lib" -- which is what fooIndex's are all about wrapping... |
| 03:02.00 | yukonbob | brlcad: ah -- there's a readline-enabled tclsh... could look at it to see what's going on... |
| 03:02.00 | brlcad | btclsh actually has limited command-line editing capabilities, e.g. ctrl-a takes you to beginning of line, ctrl-e, meta-w, etc all work |
| 03:03.03 | brlcad | yukonbob: sure, load /path/to/lib in leu of package require .. but then that's not really portable and would you want to bloat all the scripts we might possibly run prior to install? |
| 03:03.36 | brlcad | yukonbob: the command-line editing isn't a major deal -- that's just a minor annoyance; and it's not even cross platform |
| 03:04.23 | brlcad | the windows bwish kicks off a whole interactive window thing that has full edit capabilities, for example |
| 03:04.23 | yukonbob | re: load -- just a bootstrapping option... |
| 03:04.23 | brlcad | s/bwish/wish/ |
| 03:04.23 | brlcad | hm? |
| 03:04.29 | brlcad | not following |
| 03:06.12 | brlcad | the tcl "load" command at least afaik basically calls the *_Init() routine after doing whatever the equivalent of dlopen() on the library |
| 03:07.21 | yukonbob | moot point -- at this point, there's not even loadable libs ;) |
| 03:07.39 | brlcad | auto_mkindex isn't the problem, that *could* be bootstrapped into the script we run (src/tclscripts/ami.tcl and src/tclscripts/ampi.tcl) |
| 03:07.48 | brlcad | they are loadable |
| 03:07.56 | yukonbob | since when? |
| 03:08.23 | louipc | brlcad: a couple of things I'd like to see solved would be this tcl stuff, I'd also like to make it possible to create sketch objects with text commands... it didn't seem possible last time I tried. I really have to understand mged better though |
| 03:09.07 | brlcad | sushi:~ morrison$ tclsh |
| 03:09.07 | brlcad | % load /usr/brlcad/lib/libbu.dylib |
| 03:09.07 | brlcad | % bu_brlcad_data . |
| 03:09.07 | brlcad | /usr/brlcad/share/brlcad/7.11.0/. |
| 03:09.23 | brlcad | since forever really :) |
| 03:09.58 | brlcad | ever since tcl was adopted, they've been loadable -- like I said, they all have the necessary *_Init() routine that tcl uses |
| 03:10.03 | louipc | I'd like to figure out how to hook other scripting langs into brlcad too |
| 03:10.37 | brlcad | louipc: ooh, improving the sketch primitive would be awesome |
| 03:10.41 | brlcad | and that's fairly isolated |
| 03:10.52 | yukonbob | louipc: swig |
| 03:11.01 | yukonbob | (www.swig.org) |
| 03:11.14 | brlcad | we're a fair ways off from useful swiggability |
| 03:11.26 | brlcad | another thing I was talking to bob (the other bob) just earlier today about |
| 03:11.42 | louipc | hehe |
| 03:12.02 | brlcad | moving the rest of mged's commands from src/mged into src/librt (wdb_obj.c and dg_obj.c) .. it's about 70% complete at this point |
| 03:13.24 | brlcad | louipc: if you want to jump into the sketch prim, lemme know -- the wdb interface is one place that could use work, and then maybe a new command-line "sketch editor" command(s) |
| 03:14.38 | brlcad | yukonbob: what I was saying is that while "load" works, that doesn't solve the problem -- presently, the build system doesn't know what the library name actually is -- it's just a libtool library |
| 03:15.03 | brlcad | libtool manages the entire library creation and installation so that it has the proper name for a given system |
| 03:15.47 | brlcad | and I *really* would hate to have some hacked up case table that says if platformA use .so, if platformB use .dylib, else use .dll, etc |
| 03:16.48 | yukonbob | brlcad: [load mylib[info sharedlibextension]] |
| 03:17.35 | brlcad | hm, that's not bad |
| 03:18.00 | yukonbob | you mean "it's good! Brilliant! I'll have your desk ready immediately, when can you start?" |
| 03:18.09 | yukonbob | ;) |
| 03:18.13 | brlcad | heh |
| 03:18.44 | brlcad | actually I was going to say "how would that help, though? .. wouldn't want to put that into every tcl script we have" |
| 03:19.29 | louipc | brlcad: yeah that's one of many things I'd like to work on ;) |
| 03:19.32 | yukonbob | I put it in the pkgIndex.tcl for the lib... so [package require foo] will be managed by the single instance for fooIndex.tcl |
| 03:20.16 | yukonbob | eg: |
| 03:20.39 | yukonbob | package ifneeded Expect 5.43.0 [list load [file join $dir ../.. libexpect543[info sharedlibextension]]] |
| 03:21.06 | brlcad | how does it find foo's pkgIndex.tcl ? |
| 03:21.28 | yukonbob | (lib/tcl/expect5.43/pkgIndex.tcl) |
| 03:21.59 | yukonbob | the tcl searchpath tests subdirs, so if you can find tcl, you ought to be able to find anything else... |
| 03:22.35 | CIA-28 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/geometree/geometree.tcl: don't assume /bin/tclsh, ask /usr/bin/env like a good boy |
| 03:22.46 | brlcad | so two scenarios, 1 tcl is already installed, 2 it's sitting in src/other/tcl/library |
| 03:23.23 | brlcad | 1 would entail installing .. which we've not done/finished yet |
| 03:23.38 | yukonbob | 1) you'll use the info in tclConfig.sh |
| 03:24.07 | brlcad | what info? |
| 03:24.36 | brlcad | if tcl is installed, tclConfig.sh will say that it's library is in /usr/lib or /usr/lib/tcl8.4 or something |
| 03:25.09 | brlcad | we're not yet in that subtree until after we install |
| 03:26.05 | brlcad | that's where the tclcad_auto_path() function came into being as it sets up the necessary (complex) autopaths that are involved even to get just tclsh to work on a package require Itcl |
| 03:27.03 | brlcad | well the second scenario we could deal with by shoving some initialization routine into our sources for tcl, into src/other/tcl/library -- albeit rather ugly, it could probably work |
| 03:27.23 | brlcad | the first scenario was the harder one |
| 03:27.53 | yukonbob | and the problem is what? where to put shared libs? How to find them? |
| 03:27.54 | brlcad | are their environment vars that affect the auto_path? |
| 03:28.32 | brlcad | the problem is package requiring anything that's not yet installed when you're using a system tcl |
| 03:29.12 | brlcad | so say you want to "package require GeometryBrowser" (which is valid) -- it needs to know to look into src/tclscripts/geometree for that |
| 03:30.03 | brlcad | if you run src/tclscripts/geometree/geometree.tcl, you'll probably see if fail saying it can't find that package |
| 03:30.21 | brlcad | if you run through btclsh, it succeeds |
| 03:30.34 | brlcad | that's at least the "ideal goal" or some variant of it, but using tclsh still |
| 03:30.59 | brlcad | without modifying the geometree.tcl script, or at worst adding a line maybe |
| 03:31.07 | brlcad | *maybe* |
| 03:31.41 | brlcad | i'm thinking something like: AUTO_PATH=blah/blah/blah tclsh src/tclscripts/geometree/geometree.tcl might work |
| 03:31.47 | brlcad | if tcl provides an env-way |
| 03:32.01 | yukonbob | ? [load [pwd]/some/other/dir/libname[info sharelibextension]] |
| 03:32.17 | brlcad | in this instance, there's no lib to load |
| 03:32.23 | brlcad | it's pure tcl |
| 03:32.37 | yukonbob | [source] |
| 03:33.16 | brlcad | but then we're back to modifying every single tcl script that we might possibly want to run |
| 03:33.43 | brlcad | with if statements of some sort "are we running uninstalled, source .. or maybe load, else just do it" |
| 03:34.50 | yukonbob | what if you had a 'helper_for_uninstalled.tcl' that was called when necessary during the build process that had the necessary mechanics -- ie: could take a list of scripts to source, proc to run... |
| 03:35.20 | brlcad | sure, that'd be minimal |
| 03:35.31 | brlcad | that's a great idea actually .. :) |
| 03:35.43 | yukonbob | about my desk... |
| 03:36.11 | brlcad | your desk? |
| 03:36.28 | yukonbob | you know... the one you're getting ready for me? |
| 03:36.40 | brlcad | oh, hah |
| 03:36.49 | brlcad | got it |
| 03:36.51 | brlcad | i think.. ;) |
| 03:37.38 | yukonbob | the mechanics can't be difficult for this, and how many piece of code actually need this functionality -- can't be many? |
| 03:37.43 | brlcad | ~tea yukonbob |
| 03:37.43 | ibot | ACTION realizes it's time for high tea and gets busy in the kitchen. He brings out tea, crumpets, scones and an assortment of delectable goodies and serves them properly to yukonbob and others |
| 03:37.47 | starseeker | yukonbob is buying brlcad's desk? ;-) |
| 03:38.16 | yukonbob | starseeker: no, no no!!! -- I'm getting a job in BRL-CAD headquarters for my Tcl insights... |
| 03:38.26 | starseeker | cool! |
| 03:38.35 | yukonbob | heh -- the rumour is started.. |
| 03:39.00 | yukonbob | uh -- starseeker -- i'm joking, to be clear ;) |
| 03:39.28 | yukonbob | (hard to see your face on irc to know how you reacted ;) |
| 03:39.36 | starseeker | ;-) |
| 03:39.37 | brlcad | yukonbob: if the wrapper is coded up right, it won't matter what scripts |
| 03:40.02 | yukonbob | brlcad: true -- but out of curiousity, what does need to be run pre-installation? |
| 03:40.19 | starseeker | Given all the hobbies brlcad has, making desks wasn't actually totally out of the question :-P |
| 03:40.37 | brlcad | the most critical ones that come to mind at the moment are the ami.tcl and ampi.tcl scripts and mged |
| 03:41.45 | brlcad | I've not made a desk before, but I have made cabinets, step-stools, shelves, and a bookcase that can hold at least twice my body weight |
| 03:42.14 | yukonbob | to test, brlcad quickly cloned self, stood on bookcase... |
| 03:42.17 | brlcad | carpentry used to be a passive hobby past-time |
| 03:42.35 | brlcad | actually had another friend who weighs about as much :) |
| 03:42.57 | starseeker | Nice :-). Carpentry is a very satisfying hobby in terms of immediate rewards |
| 03:43.50 | brlcad | dunno about that "immediate" .. it was relaxing because it really pressured me to "slow down" to get things done artfully |
| 03:43.50 | *** join/#brlcad User731 (n=User731@71-95-182-43.static.mtpk.ca.charter.com) |
| 03:44.13 | User731 | hello anyone there |
| 03:44.17 | brlcad | nope |
| 03:44.21 | yukonbob | shhh... User731 is here.. |
| 03:44.31 | User731 | lol |
| 03:44.38 | User731 | need help |
| 03:45.08 | yukonbob | :) |
| 03:45.27 | User731 | any 1 know were I can get a crack for mastercam x2 mr1 |
| 03:45.57 | *** kick/#brlcad [User731!n=sean@pdpc/supporter/silver/brlcad] by brlcad (brlcad) |
| 03:46.06 | yukonbob | wtf was that? |
| 03:46.33 | brlcad | someone just looking for a serial number |
| 03:46.43 | yukonbob | ah.... |
| 03:47.22 | starseeker | brlcad: I guess I was thinking carpentry is immediate in that you get to see your project take shape as you do it, but you're right it takes time to do it right. When I was young that was always my downfall... |
| 03:49.14 | brlcad | that bookcase I mentioned took me something like 6 months .. |
| 03:49.32 | brlcad | course I crippled/challenged myself from the beginning |
| 03:49.42 | starseeker | No power tools? |
| 03:49.48 | brlcad | started with raw unprocessed lumber |
| 03:49.53 | starseeker | oooo |
| 03:50.11 | starseeker | yeah that'll do it |
| 03:50.16 | brlcad | so I had to shape, cut, sand, and attach each piece one by one |
| 03:50.20 | brlcad | painstaking |
| 03:50.28 | starseeker | What wood did you use? |
| 03:50.37 | brlcad | and design the whole book case as this modular thing |
| 03:51.05 | brlcad | that actually separates into four distint pieces that most anyone can carry individually |
| 03:51.23 | starseeker | Nice! |
| 03:51.23 | brlcad | oh, I was broke back then, it was raw pine |
| 03:51.42 | yukonbob | density, 0.55 |
| 03:51.51 | starseeker | That helps a little - hardwoods are rough on the tools and the muscles... |
| 03:51.55 | brlcad | something like $50 in materials and supplies and $5000 in labor :) |
| 03:52.06 | starseeker | Sounds like grad school :-) |
| 03:52.28 | brlcad | it is sturdy as heck |
| 03:52.32 | starseeker | yukonbob: See what you started? ;-) |
| 03:52.39 | brlcad | hmmm.. i should make a cad model of it! |
| 03:52.58 | yukonbob | starseeker: no -- I'm missing somethig -- what did I start? |
| 03:53.08 | starseeker | brlcad DOES do carpentry |
| 03:53.19 | yukonbob | is this re: desks? |
| 03:53.20 | brlcad | it's roughly 20"x20"x7' |
| 03:53.24 | starseeker | yep |
| 03:53.26 | yukonbob | :) |
| 03:53.29 | yukonbob | lol |
| 03:53.47 | starseeker | 7' tall - no wonder it's modular |
| 03:54.09 | brlcad | three shelves, a top, and a base |
| 03:54.25 | starseeker | how do you connect the units into the whole? |
| 03:55.21 | starseeker | re: cad model - that would be cool. Then you could model what weight of books would be needed to warp it |
| 03:55.36 | brlcad | all made from pine 1x4's iirc, "rough cut" |
| 03:55.59 | yukonbob | ?could you figure out the warp-a-bility via brlcad? |
| 03:56.13 | brlcad | the base and top latch into each other like lego pieces almost |
| 03:56.23 | brlcad | rather, they latch into the side walls |
| 03:56.36 | brlcad | that was part what makes it so sturday |
| 03:56.51 | starseeker | Nifty. You could probably pick up a patent :-) |
| 03:56.58 | brlcad | oh god.. warppage.. I spent so much time dealing with that |
| 03:57.36 | yukonbob | re: warpage -- are you talking about your lumber twisting, or the deflection of a surface because of a load/force? |
| 03:57.38 | brlcad | sanding down pieces that I'd carefully hand-picked out of massive piles, trying to find a good balance of quality wood with interesting knots but not horribly warps |
| 03:57.52 | brlcad | only to have it warp nasty, twisting all around as it dried :) |
| 03:57.59 | starseeker | yukonbob: bowing of the shelves due to overly heavy books, but the others apply too |
| 03:58.11 | starseeker | brlcad: ouch |
| 03:58.15 | brlcad | oh, once I carved it up, warping didn't really matter |
| 03:58.25 | brlcad | just took a lot of prep work to get it to that point |
| 03:58.51 | yukonbob | brlcad: re: BRL-CAD + loads -- is that something that could be figured out, or does it have much to do w/ BRL-CAD per se? |
| 03:59.02 | brlcad | at 20"x20", the shelves are small enough that you're not likely to see warping very easily for a long time |
| 03:59.18 | brlcad | I mean, I can sit on a shelf, and it doesn't budge |
| 03:59.29 | starseeker | now we're talking :-) |
| 04:00.05 | brlcad | yukonbob: depends what you mean by "could be figured out" :) |
| 04:00.30 | brlcad | heh, totally |
| 04:01.29 | brlcad | I coulda bought some simple unfinished pine shelves from ikea for $40 bucks that would have been sufficient for what I had in mine use-wise, but the experience of building it was fun and these will probably outlast me |
| 04:01.43 | starseeker | Well, "just enough" for the worst case scenario often looks like over-engineering *cough*New Orleans levy system*cough* |
| 04:02.52 | starseeker | Indeed. There's a sense of accomplishment when you build your own stuff |
| 04:03.28 | starseeker | Confound it, now I'm going to be curious if BRL-CAD can actually model long term strain-induced warping effects |
| 04:03.45 | starseeker | IIRC that's a rather different problem than ballistics |
| 04:04.12 | brlcad | you'd have to right that analysis code, but there's nothing geometric that prevents the computation |
| 04:04.38 | starseeker | solid modeling should be the right environment for that, except that as the structure warps you'll have non-uniform densities |
| 04:04.40 | brlcad | you'd have a lot of prep-rigging that you'd have to declare, like you do for a FEA |
| 04:04.48 | starseeker | right |
| 04:05.18 | brlcad | you could very well keep track of all that with ray-tracing, though, without resorting to finite elements |
| 04:05.50 | starseeker | would the way to handle non-uniform densities be to approximate it with a series of shapes of different densities? |
| 04:05.56 | yukonbob | *going to have to have his hand... |
| 04:07.22 | brlcad | or break it down into finite elements and run the navier-stokes equations or maxwell or whatever else needed for whatever is being simulated |
| 04:07.55 | starseeker | For anything except trivially simple gradients that would be the only way to go anyway |
| 04:08.21 | brlcad | i've always thought it'd be very cool to implement something like a FEA without the FE's using ray-tracing ala particle tracing |
| 04:08.35 | starseeker | that would be interesting |
| 04:09.32 | brlcad | to run a fea without the massive memory overhead, intrinsically parallelizable, no geometry prep needed |
| 04:09.39 | brlcad | (other than the rigging) |
| 04:09.40 | starseeker | There's a phd for you brlcad :-) |
| 04:10.56 | starseeker | That sounds like it would generate a lot of interest if it could tackle a wide enough problem domain |
| 04:11.04 | brlcad | i can almost see how it'd work |
| 04:11.13 | brlcad | which is what makes it slightly less interesting too :) |
| 04:11.32 | starseeker | True, but on the other hand it means you might get it done in finite time ;-) |
| 04:12.34 | brlcad | yeah, that's true |
| 04:13.40 | brlcad | still think brl-cad needs a better visualization and modeling interface first, then maybe make that one of the first plugins while I work on the dissertation ;) |
| 04:14.29 | starseeker | :-) |
| 04:15.12 | brlcad | louipc: well, let me know what you need, if anything :) I can point you to source files, or explain most of the code related to that to get you started -- if you have a small end-user goal in mind, that would help |
| 04:17.37 | starseeker | Maloeran: are you on? |
| 04:21.39 | brlcad | and if anyone is still lacking for things to work on, there's still the big list at http://my.brlcad.org/~sean/ideas.html |
| 04:22.02 | yukonbob | if anybody has spares hours in their day -- I'd be happy to take them off their hands.... |
| 04:23.58 | yukonbob | was that memory issues for DEMs ever resolved? |
| 04:24.33 | brlcad | the DSP memory gobble bug? |
| 04:24.38 | yukonbob | yup |
| 04:24.43 | brlcad | no, it wasn't |
| 04:24.58 | yukonbob | is it on anybody's radar, or have a status? |
| 04:25.26 | brlcad | it's on my radar |
| 04:25.34 | yukonbob | nice |
| 04:25.35 | brlcad | there are just 500 other blips just like it |
| 04:25.41 | yukonbob | of course |
| 04:25.49 | brlcad | all moving |
| 04:25.59 | yukonbob | !Deploy the scramblers |
| 04:26.05 | brlcad | so the ones that blip the brightest usually get hit |
| 04:26.22 | brlcad | or the easy ones on the outlier :) |
| 04:26.24 | yukonbob | heh -- are you saying the squeaky wheel gets the grease? |
| 04:27.19 | yukonbob | you have lots of internal users that come with bugs + "issues"? |
| 04:27.29 | brlcad | oh yeah |
| 04:27.45 | yukonbob | how many users do you support? |
| 04:28.39 | brlcad | it varies heavily depending on what's going on |
| 04:29.04 | yukonbob | might you have 50 people working away in front of BRL-CAD at times? |
| 04:31.00 | brlcad | no no, not nearly that many .. but it only takes one or two people to saturate a dev |
| 04:31.38 | brlcad | since each issue can take anywhere from 5 minutes/days/months/years to fully resolve |
| 04:32.05 | brlcad | and they do span that gamut all the time |
| 04:44.34 | yukonbob | brlcad: re: the artifacts in that model -- were you looking at the inside of the hub body, or the transition edge at outside of shell to face where spokes are inserted? |
| 04:45.35 | yukonbob | gah -- /me remembers he wishes that mged ran on :0.1!!! |
| 04:45.54 | yukonbob | nice big monitor idling... |
| 04:47.32 | brlcad | the ones on the inside of the hub body |
| 04:49.07 | brlcad | that one I did investigate, had a good talk with jra about it too, that's a *really old* issue related to boolean evaluation and tolerancing problems in the boolean weaver |
| 04:50.14 | yukonbob | tough to fix? |
| 04:50.18 | brlcad | that's one of those issues that is a blemish, but would probably take 5 weeks of effort to address fully -- the segment is actually correct, just the normal is for the wrong primitive (it's showing the outward facing normal of the torus that touches there in negative space) |
| 04:50.54 | brlcad | the fix might even only take a day or two of effort, but it's at the utter core of the ray-trace library and it'd take weeks of effort to validate |
| 04:51.27 | brlcad | just to ensure nothing else is changed with near absolute certainty |
| 04:51.49 | brlcad | because the boolean weaving is also at the heart of the analysis codes |
| 05:03.52 | yukonbob | brlcad: re: nice line support in mged, btclsh -- is it supplied via gnu readline? |
| 05:08.50 | brlcad | nope |
| 05:09.15 | brlcad | just coded up as needed |
| 05:09.25 | brlcad | mged's is *way* more extensive than btclsh's |
| 05:09.54 | brlcad | actually supports vi and emacs binding modes among other features |
| 05:10.15 | yukonbob | hrmm... |
| 05:10.27 | brlcad | readline would be .. tricky to integrate given how we juggle with tcl and how the even loop processes |
| 05:13.12 | yukonbob | apparently the gnu readline has a callball mechanism that works well w/ tcl... |
| 05:16.12 | brlcad | well, let me rephrase -- it would have been tricky for the feature jra was going for, which was tab-completion |
| 05:16.22 | brlcad | just getting it to process the line wouldn't be too tricky |
| 05:19.22 | brlcad | though I'd probably use the editline library just to avoid rms's annoying licensing agenda with readline |
| 05:23.56 | CIA-28 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/adrt/libtienet/tienet_master.c: check the length |
| 05:28.50 | yukonbob | is editline pretty portable? /me sees he's got a copy as part of his base system, but what about linux, OS X, Windows? |
| 05:29.42 | brlcad | yeah, very |
| 05:29.58 | brlcad | as much as readline if not moreso, and a drop-in compatible api with readline |
| 07:47.46 | *** join/#brlcad Defcon (n=def@74.17-246-81.adsl-static.isp.belgacom.be) |
| 07:48.45 | Defcon | morning all. |
| 07:48.49 | Defcon | happy hacking today |
| 09:00.27 | *** join/#brlcad Z80-Boy (n=clock@zux221-122-143.adsl.green.ch) |
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| 14:07.19 | brlcad | howdy Defcon |
| 14:08.16 | Defcon | hi brlcad |
| 14:08.17 | Defcon | :) |
| 14:10.09 | CIA-28 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/ (burst/error.c burst/extern.h burst/prnt.c bwish/winMain.c): const format specifier |
| 14:43.47 | ``Erik | *readreadread* |
| 14:44.40 | ``Erik | yes, model your bookshelf, boy :D how would a geometry/raytrace analysis deal with warping? that's one of the big issues with the real use, deformation and geometry alteration is nontrivial... |
| 14:48.39 | archivist | sure is I had to deal with roller distortion in a roller press |
| 14:49.00 | archivist | and the needed grind profile to deal with it |
| 14:50.56 | archivist | its times like that that you find deflection formulas are a simplification |
| 14:51.11 | ``Erik | heh |
| 14:51.12 | Z80-Boy | you need FEM for deformations |
| 14:51.21 | ``Erik | even the most complicated fea is a simplification |
| 14:51.45 | ``Erik | we're still learning the fundamental physics :D |
| 14:51.53 | archivist | hehe |
| 14:51.57 | Z80-Boy | Sometimes the paradigm of zero analysis is appropriate |
| 14:52.39 | Z80-Boy | For example I bought a really ripped second hand skateboard which has a crack in the middle |
| 14:52.45 | Z80-Boy | The question is can it break under me? |
| 14:52.51 | ``Erik | nah, just admit and understand the limitations of different kinds of analysis |
| 14:53.06 | ``Erik | even eyeball analysis are useful |
| 14:53.15 | archivist | when the job is "roll a sheet of paper under 200 pounds per inch" you need to work it out |
| 14:53.16 | Z80-Boy | Instead of doing fea I asked a guy in the skatepark who was better than me and he said unlikely unless I land badly |
| 14:53.21 | Z80-Boy | I can't jump so I am OK |
| 14:53.22 | ``Erik | heh |
| 14:53.37 | ``Erik | given sufficient velocity at impact, ANY skateboard will break under you :D |
| 14:53.56 | ``Erik | sufficient momentum, even... or ke... *shrug* |
| 14:54.03 | CIA-28 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/gtools/g_qa.c: put the usage string into the usage func, don't need a progname var when there's a bu_getprogname() |
| 14:54.09 | Defcon | given sufficient velocity at impact, EVERYTHING will break under you |
| 14:54.27 | Z80-Boy | sufficient velocity at impact contains "sufficient velocity" |
| 14:54.30 | archivist | or it breaks you |
| 14:54.30 | ``Erik | y'know, that's something I've been pondering |
| 14:54.39 | Z80-Boy | I don't think I attain sufficient velocity when I skateboard :) |
| 14:54.43 | Z80-Boy | I am over-careful |
| 14:55.03 | Z80-Boy | I spend time in skateparks and not hospitals :) |
| 14:55.17 | Defcon | :p |
| 14:55.17 | Z80-Boy | I am not like Z-Boys who bombed through stop signs |
| 14:55.21 | ``Erik | a marble of unobtanium travelling at, oh, .99c impacts a rock planet with a molten core, like, say, earth... does it break the planet? or just punch a neat hole that automatically seals up? :D |
| 14:55.50 | Z80-Boy | ``Erik: it gets stolen before the impact |
| 14:55.52 | brlcad | Defcon: I dunno if there's any velocity a person could be going on that would break the planet .. I'm pretty sure most velocities will just result in *splat* |
| 14:56.04 | Defcon | :p |
| 14:56.18 | Z80-Boy | I am sure however one can skate with such a bad style the planet breaks up just from having to watch it |
| 14:56.37 | Defcon | maybe at 12x c it would break the planet & result in *splat* |
| 14:56.58 | ``Erik | meatbags are awful soft, probably become a nice plasma cloud before getting to the surface if there's a sufficiently dense (like, human friendly) atmostphere |
| 14:58.03 | ``Erik | but, yeah, brlcad, if you're trying to figure out weight limits and warping using only csg geometry and rays, how would you account for shelf deformation under weight? the support characteristics of the shelf would change through the deformation... |
| 14:58.35 | Z80-Boy | if I model my body in BRL-CAD how do I calculate which way I should fall to minimize the results of wiping out on a skateboard? |
| 14:58.54 | Z80-Boy | What's worse for human surface? Perpendicular hit or shear? |
| 14:59.31 | ``Erik | I d'no, karel, go collect test data to build a model. I suggest jumping off of buildings and landing at different angles. make sure your sampling is large enough :D *duck* |
| 14:59.47 | Z80-Boy | I'll go to skatepark to collect samples |
| 15:00.18 | ``Erik | the sheer and strain of bones is a pretty complex topic O.o |
| 15:00.38 | ``Erik | sheer and stress, even |
| 15:00.41 | Z80-Boy | The problem is I don't usually fall anymore |
| 15:00.44 | Z80-Boy | if I lose balance |
| 15:01.00 | Z80-Boy | I bail unless my legs get into quantum entanglement |
| 15:01.14 | ``Erik | well, if y ou never fall, you don't have to think about how to minimize damage when falling... :D |
| 15:01.26 | Z80-Boy | It might take so long for me to collect sufficient data so that the question stops being practically relevant :) |
| 15:01.47 | Defcon | you would be pro skater by then |
| 15:01.48 | Defcon | :) |
| 15:01.59 | Z80-Boy | Actually walking is also quite a balance feat isn't it? And people don't think about it as something worth thinking about |
| 15:02.04 | Z80-Boy | pro lamer :) |
| 15:02.07 | brlcad | ``Erik: that's a problem of just how to do any non-trivial (i.e. not just cylinder holes) shape deformation on a CSG model, regardless of analysis/load/etc, same problem with modeling soft body materials |
| 15:02.23 | Z80-Boy | A skateboard would be easy to model wouldn't be? |
| 15:02.33 | ``Erik | (and if you lose enough control that you DO fall, will you have enough control to optimize your fall for reduced damage? be better to just like the 2-3 "safe" falls everyone uses and just have fun) |
| 15:02.34 | Z80-Boy | Ball bearings are toruses and spheres and cylinders right? |
| 15:03.12 | Z80-Boy | For the axles and kingpins I already have thread routines :) |
| 15:03.15 | brlcad | that's where converting the solids to their equivalent brep spline surfaces wins, at least for bending |
| 15:03.28 | brlcad | materials that crack/fracture/shatter/tear are still another problem on top of that |
| 15:03.39 | ``Erik | the wheels, bearings, bolts, etc should be easy to model, the boards body and the trucks would be the most interesting bits |
| 15:04.02 | Z80-Boy | I could build special BRL-CAD friendly trucks :) |
| 15:04.13 | Z80-Boy | I guess the most strength/weight is in space frame |
| 15:04.19 | ``Erik | yeah, but under deformation, the material is no longer consistent.. if you put a weight on a shelf and it bows, the density towards the top of the board is higher than the bottom |
| 15:04.22 | Z80-Boy | so if I weld myself space frame trucks... |
| 15:05.05 | ``Erik | welds are often weak points, and weight is a concern... most trucks are cast aluminum iirc |
| 15:05.09 | brlcad | last night, I was more thinking being able to do the static analysis on the CSG model so that, with a given contact rigging and a specified set of loads, you'd get an answer that says this object is going to bend X amount, this other object will crack and potentially shatter |
| 15:05.24 | Z80-Boy | ``Erik: no worry, the weakest point of my skateboard is surely my skills |
| 15:05.33 | ``Erik | at least on cheap boards, mebbe they use cast iron or steel or something for some *shrug* |
| 15:05.34 | brlcad | whether it geometrically shows you that or not is a matter of remodeling and visualization |
| 15:05.42 | ``Erik | <-- hasn't boarded since the 80's |
| 15:05.52 | Z80-Boy | ``Erik: that sounds like you have boarded |
| 15:05.53 | Defcon | <-- hasn't boarded at all |
| 15:06.54 | ``Erik | um, what's the bridge model engineers use? like strut and spring or something? that could probably be applied fairly easily, possibly generating the values from material tables after the connection points/types are annotated |
| 15:07.01 | CIA-28 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (include/fb.h src/libfb/fb_log.c): make fb_log()'s format specifier constant |
| 15:08.24 | ``Erik | but a model of the bookshelf system would probably be a great test case for any work in the drafting/ca{d,m} direction :D as well as a possible cae candidate that joe blow can relate to |
| 15:08.40 | brlcad | I'll bring it in and you can model it :) |
| 15:08.49 | CIA-28 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/doc/deprecation.txt: denote the fact that fb_log format became const |
| 15:08.59 | brlcad | actually, it's not an incredibly complex model.. it really would make for an interesting test case |
| 15:10.08 | brlcad | because of the way the major parts fit together with fairly well-known connectivity (some are purely friction, some are massive bolts, nails, screws |
| 15:11.36 | brlcad | what can't be easily captured is the properties of the individual boards that are riddled with various knottings but you could probably classify the average strength of a given board |
| 15:14.46 | CIA-28 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/lgt/error.c: const fb_log |
| 15:16.29 | CIA-28 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/lgt/ (extern.h prnt.c): constness |
| 15:20.54 | Z80-Boy | brlcad: I put the BRL-CAD logo into closing titles of the video with all the models one after another |
| 15:21.19 | Z80-Boy | brlcad: the open source one as you said |
| 15:21.22 | brlcad | cool |
| 15:21.36 | CIA-28 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbn/axis.c: add a check to make sure we don't exceed available buffer space for the dynamic number-of-digit printing |
| 15:21.39 | Z80-Boy | Now I synced the sound and am waiting for the video to compile |
| 15:21.52 | Z80-Boy | brlcad: I guess maybe it could be used as a showcase video |
| 15:22.31 | ``Erik | wood is too complex to model at that scale... densities change all over the place, cell coherence, etc.. best you could do is cut cylinders for the knots and average, I'd imagine :D but just the design type stuff would be neat and a start |
| 15:22.50 | Z80-Boy | ``Erik: party? |
| 15:24.33 | Z80-Boy | brlcad: I also found and reported several bugs recently |
| 15:26.48 | CIA-28 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbu/brlcad_path.c: use bu_which() to find pwd instead of relying on popen |
| 15:28.16 | Defcon | so why should i use BRL-CAD instead off another 3D modeling app. like Modo, 3DSmax, ... ? |
| 15:28.50 | Z80-Boy | Defcon: is Modo or 3DSmax free software? |
| 15:29.32 | brlcad | Defcon: you're welcome to use whatever you like, I'm not a salesman :) |
| 15:30.39 | brlcad | though Z80-Boy does make a good point, we're open source, those aren't solid modelers making them horribly-suited for analysis purposes |
| 15:31.11 | brlcad | s/source,/source; and also/ |
| 15:31.38 | Defcon | good point.. |
| 15:32.08 | Z80-Boy | Close-source may fire back unpredictably in the future ;-) |
| 15:32.23 | *** join/#brlcad Axman6 (n=Axman6@pdpc/supporter/student/Axman6) |
| 15:32.28 | Defcon | so why should i use BRL-CAD instead off another 3D modeling app. like Blender?$? |
| 15:32.31 | Defcon | -$ |
| 15:33.33 | brlcad | blender's also not a solid modeler |
| 15:33.50 | Defcon | meaning? |
| 15:33.53 | brlcad | it's a content creation tool ala maya |
| 15:34.06 | Defcon | aah k |
| 15:34.13 | brlcad | same reason I wouldn't use Maya for CAD, I wouldn't use Blender for CAD |
| 15:34.30 | brlcad | you use a CAD system that's designed with engineering purposes in mind |
| 15:34.40 | Defcon | yes ofc |
| 15:34.51 | brlcad | not just making pretty models for movies and animations |
| 15:34.51 | Defcon | my company uses autoCAD |
| 15:34.59 | Defcon | for 2D plans |
| 15:35.16 | brlcad | ask your coworkers why you don't use maya |
| 15:35.28 | brlcad | you'll have your answer |
| 15:35.31 | Defcon | dunno |
| 15:35.34 | Defcon | k |
| 15:35.35 | Defcon | :) |
| 15:35.53 | brlcad | assuming you ask someone knowledgeable about CAD and Maya :) |
| 15:36.03 | Defcon | indeed :) |
| 15:36.20 | Defcon | but that one is gone now |
| 15:36.24 | Defcon | ill |
| 15:36.33 | Defcon | so i'll ask him when he gets back :) |
| 15:36.44 | brlcad | though AutoCAD is only a subset of the "CAD" software domain -- they're CADD -- CAD for drafting purposes (i.e. predominantly focused on the 2D modeling approach) |
| 15:37.09 | Z80-Boy | "The creditors agreed to release Blender under the terms of the GNU General Public License, for a one-time payment of EUR100,000" |
| 15:37.16 | Z80-Boy | Hehe that's like Ronja, but on much higher scale |
| 15:37.30 | brlcad | Defcon: here's a rough idea where BRL-CAD presently stands in the CAD arena: http://ftp.brlcad.org/Industry_Diagram.png |
| 15:39.33 | brlcad | where if you know your CAD packages, CADD is roughly AutoCAD, MCAD would be something like GibbsCAM, CAAD would be something like ARCHICAD, etc |
| 15:39.40 | Defcon | whow very nice |
| 15:40.01 | Defcon | us gov ..? |
| 15:40.02 | Defcon | :) |
| 15:40.31 | brlcad | ProEngineer, CATIA, and Unigraphics would fall roughly under the CAD label in the background |
| 15:41.19 | Defcon | hmm |
| 15:41.21 | Defcon | k |
| 15:41.43 | Defcon | so brl-cad is revolutionary |
| 15:42.21 | Axman6 | eh? |
| 15:42.23 | brlcad | the main/only discrepancy is the CADD domain is *massive*, so it's oval really needed to be a lot bigger, but it throws off the purpose of the diagram |
| 15:43.08 | Defcon | hmm k |
| 15:43.23 | Defcon | brl-cad since the mid 80's? |
| 15:43.35 | brlcad | yep, under constant development |
| 15:43.45 | Defcon | wicked |
| 15:43.48 | brlcad | s/revolutionary/evolutionary/ |
| 15:43.54 | Axman6 | back when there was a BRL |
| 15:44.00 | Z80-Boy | Hmm Blender also seems to be possible to use for Ronja |
| 15:44.23 | Defcon | Blender and Ronja sitting in a tree.. |
| 15:46.55 | Axman6 | Defcon: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BRL-CAD |
| 15:48.57 | Defcon | tnx |
| 15:49.34 | Axman6 | brlcad: i may have missed the point, but can you do balistics simularions with brl-cad? |
| 15:49.58 | CIA-28 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbu/parallel.c: bu_get_load_average() has a horrible implementation but fortunately we don't even use it. mark it deprecated. |
| 15:50.22 | Z80-Boy | I think I even tried Blender before BRL-CAD |
| 15:51.17 | Z80-Boy | looks like an unfinished project |
| 15:51.26 | Z80-Boy | Already in INSTALL there are some patches embedded in the text |
| 15:51.48 | Z80-Boy | Doesn't have a ./configure and build instructions are linked on an external URL |
| 15:52.17 | Z80-Boy | Already from the beginning suggests an impression that the people who do it have no idea how to maintain software so it's practically usable for the user |
| 15:52.21 | brlcad | Axman6: brl-cad is a massive suite of utilities and libraries, those libraries in particular are used for various purpose including for ballistic simulations |
| 15:53.09 | brlcad | we don't provide those analysis codes, but they rely heavily on brl-cad's speed, geometry flexibility and representation formats, and our modeling tools |
| 15:53.24 | Axman6 | ah ha |
| 15:53.59 | Z80-Boy | brlcad: that's because they are secret by the army, right? |
| 15:54.24 | brlcad | but to give you an idea, there is a BRL-CAD model of just about every military asset that has been in existance over the past two decades including tanks, helicopters, planes, some ships, etc |
| 15:55.01 | Z80-Boy | hehe |
| 15:55.10 | Axman6 | ... woah. right, didn't know brl-cad was that well utilised b the military tbh :P |
| 15:55.10 | Z80-Boy | do you also have the Roswell alien flying saucer? |
| 15:55.22 | brlcad | I keep it in my back pocket |
| 15:55.29 | brlcad | people overestimate the size of that saucer |
| 15:55.31 | Z80-Boy | brlcad: do you also have aircraft carriers? |
| 15:55.36 | Axman6 | brlcad: care to share some cool models? |
| 15:56.19 | Z80-Boy | It takes too long to install |
| 15:56.25 | Z80-Boy | Requires a lot of external dependencies |
| 15:56.28 | brlcad | Axman6: there's only one "interesting" semi-real model, and I'm not sure how cool I'd call it .. fairly low-detail model of the russian havoc helicopter |
| 15:56.45 | Axman6 | heh, that'd be cool |
| 15:56.50 | brlcad | http://brlcad.org/images/havoc_rtedge.png |
| 15:57.00 | brlcad | that model is included (havoc.g |
| 15:57.07 | brlcad | in the distribution |
| 15:57.15 | Axman6 | ah cool |
| 15:57.26 | Z80-Boy | brlcad: how was this model created? |
| 15:57.40 | Axman6 | any idea how long something like that takes to create? |
| 15:57.42 | brlcad | with mged |
| 15:57.55 | Z80-Boy | but how were the dimensions acquired? |
| 15:58.00 | Z80-Boy | Through secret espionage? |
| 15:58.09 | Z80-Boy | Or measuring a captured piece of the helicopter? |
| 15:58.38 | brlcad | Axman6: depends on the modeler's expertise level -- something like havoc probably/usually takes about a month to model, maybe less, maybe more |
| 15:58.57 | brlcad | i can't say how havoc was acquired |
| 15:59.04 | Z80-Boy | is it secret? |
| 15:59.12 | brlcad | no, it's because I don't know :) |
| 15:59.13 | Axman6 | brlcad: do you work for ARL or somewhere related? |
| 15:59.14 | *** join/#brlcad b0ef (n=b0ef@062016141081.customer.alfanett.no) |
| 15:59.21 | Defcon | going home |
| 15:59.23 | Defcon | ttyl all |
| 15:59.24 | Z80-Boy | brlcad: lol |
| 15:59.37 | brlcad | havoc is an old helicopter, though |
| 15:59.48 | brlcad | you can actually buy one off the market now iirc |
| 15:59.53 | Axman6 | looks a lot like an apache |
| 15:59.54 | Z80-Boy | is havoc an official army code name for this type? |
| 16:00.07 | brlcad | apache's a lot bigger, and the model is *way* cooler ;) |
| 16:00.17 | Axman6 | damn it :P |
| 16:00.19 | Axman6 | gimme! |
| 16:00.26 | Z80-Boy | brlcad: but not public I guess :) |
| 16:00.31 | brlcad | not in the least |
| 16:00.38 | Axman6 | pity |
| 16:00.44 | Axman6 | so who makes the models? |
| 16:00.50 | brlcad | modelers? |
| 16:00.53 | Z80-Boy | A secret department? :) |
| 16:01.07 | Z80-Boy | brlcad: do you also have some models of state of the art nuclear weapons? :) |
| 16:01.20 | brlcad | there aren't nearly as many secret departments as you'd like to think, or as hollywood would like to make you think |
| 16:01.29 | Z80-Boy | brlcad: like all the little parts inside with nanometer precision? |
| 16:01.37 | Axman6 | brlcad: says you, but how would you know! |
| 16:02.29 | Axman6 | bah, you're crap at divulging information |
| 16:02.35 | Axman6 | :( |
| 16:03.01 | Z80-Boy | brlcad: do you have to do 20 pushups in your army office? |
| 16:03.43 | Z80-Boy | Axman6: I am sure they must have secret NATO calling codes and firearms everywhere |
| 16:04.06 | Axman6 | ASIO? or brlcad? :P |
| 16:04.18 | Z80-Boy | Hehe I just got an interesting idea |
| 16:04.36 | Z80-Boy | I saw a boat with about 8 people catch a wave in a surfing video |
| 16:04.47 | Z80-Boy | The marines could try to catch a tsunami with an aircraft carrier |
| 16:04.56 | Z80-Boy | or those rare superwaves created by storms |
| 16:05.12 | Axman6 | we kill brlcad, steal his identity, take his awesome modles, ray trace them at massive resolutions, and fill the entire capacity of the internet? |
| 16:05.12 | Z80-Boy | then make a video and post to youtube :) |
| 16:05.31 | Axman6 | haha |
| 16:05.33 | Z80-Boy | Axman6: no way killing and stealing is illegal |
| 16:06.03 | Axman6 | ok, we'll hide him in a washing machine, and borrow the models |
| 16:06.10 | Z80-Boy | I guess the Army must have a special department to make sure the Hollywood always gets it wrong |
| 16:06.20 | Z80-Boy | To not divulge any strategic information :) |
| 16:07.06 | Axman6 | but ya see, if they're like "i'm sorry, you cannot put that in your movie", then they've just divulged that the stuff they made up is really real |
| 16:07.12 | Z80-Boy | They probably send random bits of modified information about the truth to all the Holywood directors |
| 16:07.51 | Z80-Boy | Axman6: no they come "hey the truth is actually more colourful than you portray - our aircraft carriers can also travel in the space!" |
| 16:08.21 | Z80-Boy | And that's how they made the star trek/star wars I always confuse those two names the names are so similar |
| 16:08.27 | Z80-Boy | Both begin with "Star" and a space. |
| 16:08.37 | Axman6 | lol |
| 16:09.26 | Z80-Boy | I know in once of them there were some Jedi Knights with battery-operated coloured fluorescent tubes with internal ballast in their hands |
| 16:10.35 | Axman6 | oh crap. i heard an ad today for a new kids toy, can't remember it's actual name, but it was something like "The transforming Dath Vader Death Star something something" |
| 16:11.09 | Axman6 | glow swords |
| 16:11.15 | Z80-Boy | and now kids have to carry bulky transformers |
| 16:11.24 | Z80-Boy | instead of more moder switched mode power supplies |
| 16:12.18 | CIA-28 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (3 files in 2 dirs): finally obsolete bu_brlcad_path() and bu_tcl_brlcad_path(), which were marked deprecated back in 7.4; callers should now be using bu_brlcad_data() and bu_brlcad_root() depending on the nature of the lookup. |
| 16:12.19 | brlcad | Z80-Boy: i've done push-ups at work before |
| 16:12.31 | brlcad | but because I can and I like em :) |
| 16:12.41 | brlcad | and 20 would be for a wuss |
| 16:13.53 | Axman6 | i always sucked at puch-ups, too tall and chubby i guess. always dominated at sit-ups though |
| 16:13.57 | Z80-Boy | brlcad: I go to a gym does it count instead? |
| 16:14.13 | Z80-Boy | I dominate at sit-at-computers |
| 16:14.22 | brlcad | depends what you do at the gym |
| 16:14.33 | brlcad | if you go there just to guy-watch, it doesn't really count for much :) |
| 16:14.46 | Z80-Boy | push and pull various bars and handles and lift damn heavy irons with that |
| 16:15.07 | Z80-Boy | If I need power I guy-watch and engage higher level of fantasy |
| 16:15.10 | brlcad | mm.. speaking of guns.. I should go to the gym tonight to work on them some more |
| 16:15.28 | Axman6 | heh, brlcad, what do you get for $249.99 from brlcad.com that you can't get free from brlcad.org? |
| 16:15.37 | Z80-Boy | Like "omg... I am lazy to stop and switch from 60 down to 55... I'll watch this guy and imagine he wants me and now I have to impress him..." |
| 16:15.44 | brlcad | Axman6: guaranteed support |
| 16:15.54 | Axman6 | but you're always here! |
| 16:15.56 | brlcad | printed documentation and CDs |
| 16:16.46 | brlcad | Axman6: yes, but I don't have to answer a goddamn question if I don't want to :) |
| 16:17.02 | Axman6 | you're an op, of course you do! |
| 16:17.02 | brlcad | you pay them for answers |
| 16:17.31 | Z80-Boy | brlcad: you are in Maryland? According to the Survice map it looks like you are close to some kind of deep bay |
| 16:17.36 | *** mode/#brlcad [-o brlcad] by ChanServ |
| 16:17.38 | Z80-Boy | isn't it a river estuary actually? |
| 16:17.45 | brlcad | what that you say, sonny? |
| 16:17.48 | Axman6 | i always (try to) in #macosx where i'm an op, and it's got 1000x more idiots than here ;) |
| 16:18.09 | brlcad | Z80-Boy: yes, in maryland -- survice's headquaraters is just down the road |
| 16:18.18 | Axman6 | Z80-Boy: submarines maybeh? |
| 16:18.25 | brlcad | and that bay is .. the Chesapeake Bay |
| 16:18.40 | Axman6 | i've heard of that... |
| 16:18.41 | brlcad | pretty reknowned bay |
| 16:18.58 | Axman6 | being an aussie, i'm a little surprised |
| 16:19.15 | Z80-Boy | brlcad: I guess there must be no waves - but if you drive out the bay, can you surf there? |
| 16:19.29 | brlcad | ever heard of "Old Bay" seasoning? your supermarket undoubtedly carries it -- Chesapeake is the "Old Bay" |
| 16:20.09 | brlcad | the source of "maryland crabs" and "maryland crab cakes" that you can find at seafood restaurants |
| 16:20.32 | brlcad | Z80-Boy: the east coast US is horrible for surfing |
| 16:20.34 | Axman6 | they named an STI after a place? |
| 16:20.48 | brlcad | the wind direction and short beaches don't help |
| 16:21.02 | brlcad | STI? |
| 16:21.16 | Z80-Boy | brlcad: hey, you have subtropical climate! That's great! |
| 16:21.33 | Z80-Boy | brlcad: "bay leaves"? |
| 16:21.35 | brlcad | right now there's about 2 inches of snow on the ground |
| 16:22.24 | Z80-Boy | oops |
| 16:22.36 | Z80-Boy | and California is supposed to have mediterranean |
| 16:22.45 | Z80-Boy | Under which they image 10 degree centigrade water... |
| 16:22.54 | brlcad | different bay |
| 16:23.41 | brlcad | yeah, the water is slightly warmer on the east, but with the different wind direction and the apalachean mountains blocking the coast, you just dont' get big waves |
| 16:23.48 | Z80-Boy | But at least you have the Hawaii :) |
| 16:24.02 | *** join/#brlcad Axman6 (n=Axman6@pdpc/supporter/student/Axman6) |
| 16:24.11 | Z80-Boy | brlcad: the waves are generated in distance anyway |
| 16:24.20 | Axman6 | rawww! wtf irssi/screen! |
| 16:24.29 | Z80-Boy | When I was surfing, we were receiving waves probably generated by that tropical cyclone whatever impaling at FLorida |
| 16:24.35 | Axman6 | anyway... STI = sexually transmitted infection |
| 16:24.36 | Z80-Boy | I don't remember the name but it was in the news |
| 16:24.49 | brlcad | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chesapeake_Bay |
| 16:24.54 | Z80-Boy | brlcad: I read it |
| 16:25.13 | brlcad | yeah, forgot that it's also the largest estuary |
| 16:25.35 | Z80-Boy | brlcad: I wonder if Britan also classifies as "horrible" for surfing |
| 16:25.35 | brlcad | I'm within a few miles of the very tip of the bay |
| 16:25.44 | Z80-Boy | Unless you are a polar bear... |
| 16:25.44 | Axman6 | ok, sleep time for me. g'night guys |
| 16:25.52 | brlcad | cya aussie |
| 16:26.11 | Axman6 | Z80-Boy: yeah it's pretty bad over there |
| 16:26.12 | Z80-Boy | brlcad: have you been to Hawaii? |
| 16:26.17 | brlcad | nope, not yet |
| 16:26.29 | Z80-Boy | brlcad: not yet? |
| 16:26.32 | Z80-Boy | Planning? |
| 16:26.37 | brlcad | buddy and I talked about going recently |
| 16:26.41 | brlcad | he's trying to kill me |
| 16:26.47 | brlcad | (via surfing) |
| 16:27.03 | brlcad | either the major waves down in mexico or hawaii |
| 16:27.31 | brlcad | I already almost died several times on 12 foot waves in california |
| 16:27.32 | Z80-Boy | I would prefer gradually increasing the killing force of the waves to get used to it |
| 16:27.40 | brlcad | I don't need 20-30 footers |
| 16:27.43 | Axman6 | best place to go would be chaupu (sp...) in fiji i think |
| 16:27.44 | Z80-Boy | are you an experienced surfer? |
| 16:28.28 | Z80-Boy | brlcad: you can hide from the wave underwater |
| 16:28.32 | brlcad | I've surfed all of three times, all day, or about 40 hours total :) |
| 16:29.01 | Z80-Boy | I have surfed 6 days 5 hours a day 30 hours total |
| 16:29.23 | Z80-Boy | brlcad: I don't think the size is appropriate for you unless you are a surf-learning superhero :) |
| 16:31.08 | Z80-Boy | brlcad: almost died what danger did you get into? |
| 16:49.59 | *** join/#brlcad Elperion (n=Bary@p548779F2.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 16:54.15 | ``Erik | wait, what? stars and space? in the same context? how very unique and original O.o |
| 16:55.19 | prasad_ | ``Erik: what lever are u now? |
| 16:55.29 | ``Erik | whu? |
| 16:57.13 | prasad_ | er |
| 16:57.14 | prasad_ | level |
| 16:57.51 | ``Erik | I d'no if you'd be able to find a havoc for sale, the Mi-28 was a prototype competing to replace the Mi-24 'hin', and I thought it lost out to a ka model (which was never pushed due to the collapse over there) |
| 16:58.01 | ``Erik | level? O.o you're confusin' me, boy |
| 16:58.10 | prasad_ | wow |
| 16:58.33 | prasad_ | ka-52? |
| 16:59.19 | ``Erik | wikiwikiwiki.... um, the ka50, originally... but havoc development continued |
| 17:00.06 | ``Erik | wow, mi28n is being moved into the russian military |
| 17:01.02 | ``Erik | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mil_Mi-28 |
| 17:02.42 | prasad_ | WoW |
| 17:03.05 | ``Erik | oh, um, 70, 56, ... a couple others |
| 17:06.39 | prasad_ | yikes |
| 17:06.48 | prasad_ | addict? ;) |
| 17:07.03 | ``Erik | nah, efficient :D I play mebbe 2-3 days a week |
| 17:07.18 | ``Erik | and still watch all the shows on tv *shrug* O.o |
| 17:12.03 | prasad_ | star trek mmo might be canned :( |
| 17:12.21 | prasad_ | perpetual ent. going out of business (says gamasutra) |
| 17:12.30 | prasad_ | i was looking forward to that one |
| 17:38.06 | CIA-28 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/adrt/librender/Makefile.am: allow dynamic lib to be build |
| 17:38.38 | CIA-28 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/adrt/librender/ (camera.h render_internal.h): fixes for third party consumers |
| 17:40.37 | CIA-28 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/libbu/brlcad_path.c: add missing closing paren. |
| 17:41.21 | *** join/#brlcad minute-ssh (n=MinuteEl@bz.bzflag.bz) |
| 17:43.55 | brlcad | Z80-Boy: oh, just getting tossed around in the bigger waves, learning to surf -- the water was exceptionally rough when I first went out |
| 17:44.13 | brlcad | even my buddy, who's surfed for years was having trouble catching waves |
| 17:45.10 | brlcad | it was about right for me skill-wise, I still eventually got the hang of it, and the rush of lethal situations is always fun |
| 17:49.31 | Z80-Boy | trouble catching waves? |
| 17:49.36 | Z80-Boy | I never had trouble catching a wave |
| 17:49.52 | Z80-Boy | I always had a trouble standing up the way they insisted is the optimum one |
| 17:50.01 | ``Erik | apparently you've never surfed on a pond |
| 17:50.01 | ``Erik | :D |
| 17:50.28 | Z80-Boy | I had once trouble not catching a wave though |
| 17:51.12 | Z80-Boy | They said I should cancel the attempt when someone is already standing on the wave |
| 17:51.16 | Z80-Boy | but I couldn't! |
| 17:51.41 | Z80-Boy | I put my hands into the water as deep as I could, tremendous force, but the wave had a more tremendous force :) |
| 17:52.21 | *** join/#brlcad Elperion (n=Bary@p548779F2.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 17:53.47 | CIA-28 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/fbed/prnt.c: change fb_log definition to match the prototype in fb.h |
| 17:55.06 | CIA-28 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/fbserv/fbserv.c: change fb_log definition to match the prototype in fb.h |
| 18:24.48 | CIA-28 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/adrt/ (4 files in 2 dirs): use bu_avail_cpu()s instead of the FreeBSD-only get_procs() version |
| 19:05.32 | *** join/#brlcad CIA-4 (n=CIA@208.69.182.149) |
| 19:33.49 | *** join/#brlcad Z80-Boy (i=clock@217-162-110-96.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
| 20:07.32 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/adrt/librender/ (Makefile.am plane.c plane.h): plane is now cut |
| 20:09.17 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/adrt/librender/render.h: plane is now cut |
| 20:10.33 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/adrt/librender/cut.c: bring in cleanup that was done on plane.c |
| 20:11.43 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/adrt/librender/render_internal.h: RENDER_METHOD_PLANE is a synonym for RENDER_METHOD_CUT now |
| 20:16.14 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/adrt/adrt.h: mirror the mesh hit/select in libcommon (pre-migration) |
| 20:16.25 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/adrt/isst/isst.h: build the isst/adrt synonyms |
| 20:17.53 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/adrt/isst/master/master.c: use the new tienet api... sorta... |
| 20:18.22 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/adrt/isst/slave/ (load.c load.h Makefile.am): bring in the mysql load stuff (kinda) before removing it... O.o |
| 20:19.39 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/adrt/libcommon/ (env.c unpack.c): plane is now cut |
| 20:25.47 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/BUGS: once again, rtwizard seems to be busted. getting bad screen distance ":41.25" processing the -width option on the itk_component(bar) on the RTWizard::FeedbackDialog |
| 20:37.12 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/adrt/isst/slave/slave.c: bring in changes from the new adrt stuff |
| 20:52.41 | Z80-Boy | ``Erik: how old were you when you stopped skateboarding? |
| 21:06.30 | Maloeran | I was at Surfer's Paraside near the gold coast a couple weeks ago, but I wasn't too good at that particular activity |
| 21:11.42 | Z80-Boy | Maloeran: wow. So you tried surfing there/ |
| 21:13.00 | Maloeran | Yes, only the second time I ever tried though :), I rarely could last more than 5 seconds standing |
| 21:14.09 | Maloeran | The best part of the trip to Australia was definitely the scuba diving in the coral reefs |
| 21:17.52 | Z80-Boy | Maloeran: that's already quite good :) |
| 21:18.25 | Z80-Boy | For the second time definintel |
| 21:18.26 | Z80-Boy | y |
| 21:19.15 | Z80-Boy | But we here in Europe are a bit handicapped compared to US or Australia |
| 21:19.17 | brlcad | Maloeran, no not on vacation .. just general discussion about previous adventures |
| 21:19.34 | Z80-Boy | Surfing in the UK means who manages to stand up in Brighton is a world champion :) |
| 21:19.56 | Z80-Boy | Maloeran: did you dive with tanks? |
| 21:20.13 | Maloeran | Of course Z80, for about a week |
| 21:20.35 | Z80-Boy | "I would like M1A1 Abrams oxygen tanks, please..." |
| 21:20.39 | Maloeran | I went in the Whitsunday Islands, it's absolutely magnificent |
| 21:21.34 | Z80-Boy | Maloeran: colourful fish and reefs? |
| 21:22.11 | Maloeran | Sure, I took some pictures too : http://www.rayforce.net/australia/ |
| 21:22.52 | Maloeran | I certainly recommend the experience if you enjoy diving |
| 21:26.39 | Z80-Boy | Very nice, like a paradise |
| 21:26.50 | Z80-Boy | http://www.rayforce.net/australia/reef085.html this needs to be modelled using a torus I guess |
| 21:27.58 | Z80-Boy | Oops this looks like an alien brain attack from the outer space http://www.rayforce.net/australia/reef105.html |
| 21:28.09 | *** join/#brlcad docelic (n=docelic@77.237.98.111) |
| 21:29.00 | Maloeran | Eheh, most of my pictures came out fairly bad ( not available online ) ; luminosity is low and it's tricky to stand perfectly still when under water |
| 21:29.33 | Maloeran | Or when purchasing in sprint various large fishes, it came out all blurry of course |
| 21:30.19 | Maloeran | The only half-decent picture of my shark : http://www.rayforce.net/australia/reef046.html *sobs* |
| 21:31.08 | Maloeran | when chasing* in sprint |
| 21:32.36 | Z80-Boy | Isn't that Surfers Paradise? |
| 21:33.25 | Maloeran | The scuba diving was at Airlie Beach, Whitsunday Coast, Whitsunday Islands, Daydream Island |
| 21:33.42 | Z80-Boy | Is it suitable for lamers, this Surfers Paradise? |
| 21:35.11 | Z80-Boy | What does red/yellow mean? Supervised beach? |
| 21:35.12 | Maloeran | One should probably start with something easier, but the Gold Coast beaches are great for swimming or other activities too |
| 21:35.38 | Maloeran | The colored flags? Yes |
| 21:35.45 | Z80-Boy | Did you go on your own bike? |
| 21:36.32 | Maloeran | I borrowed one on a couple occasions, the cities seemed a bit poor in bicycle lanes |
| 21:37.52 | Maloeran | Are you considering a trip to Australia? |
| 21:38.06 | Z80-Boy | After these pictures I think it would be nice to go there :) |
| 21:38.26 | Z80-Boy | But not seriously yet. Put it into the todo list :) |
| 21:40.49 | Maloeran | The experience has been rather poor culturally and culinary, it sure depends what you are after |
| 21:42.40 | Z80-Boy | They have the architectural spirit of London! I want that! |
| 21:44.29 | ``Erik | <mal> it's not french, so it sucks |
| 21:44.32 | ``Erik | *cough* :D O:-) |
| 21:44.53 | Maloeran | Eh oh, I loved Mexico :) |
| 21:45.18 | ``Erik | yeah, decent mexican food is difficult to find in the US, and I can't even find shitty mexican food around here :( |
| 21:45.52 | ``Erik | or decent sushi *sigh* |
| 21:46.13 | ``Erik | and, uh, yeah, yukonbob, mysql... one of my tasks with that bit of software is to DE-sql it, though O.o |
| 21:46.47 | Z80-Boy | and now sleep good night |
| 21:47.26 | Maloeran | May the night gently rock your dreams |
| 21:48.41 | Z80-Boy | I know some French surfing |
| 21:48.57 | Z80-Boy | Pleine Mer means the water is up. Basse Mer means the water is down. |
| 21:49.09 | Z80-Boy | Mountee means going up and what is going down I don't know |
| 21:49.42 | Z80-Boy | good night |
| 21:50.48 | ``Erik | I learned my french from the germans. I only know two phrases, "Je me rends!" and "merde" |
| 21:50.49 | ``Erik | :D |
| 22:02.56 | Maloeran | Tsk :) |
| 22:13.28 | *** join/#brlcad Axman6 (n=Axman6@pdpc/supporter/student/Axman6) |
| 22:23.25 | *** join/#brlcad Elperion (n=Bary@p548779F2.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 22:37.27 | *** join/#brlcad Axman6 (n=Axman6@pdpc/supporter/student/Axman6) |
| 22:43.08 | Maloeran | make sandwish |
| 22:43.13 | Maloeran | make: *** No rule to make target `sandwish'. Stop. |
| 22:44.06 | Maloeran | Oops, it's sandwich of course |
| 22:47.01 | yukonbob | mmm... /me gets idea for smoked beef sandwich -- thx Maloeran |
| 23:28.31 | *** join/#brlcad Axman6_ (n=Axman6@61-69-24-60.netspeed.com.au) |
| 23:45.38 | *** join/#brlcad digitalfredy (n=digitalf@200.71.62.161) |
| 23:48.15 | starseeker | Maloeran: around? |
