| 01:18.40 | *** join/#brlcad iraytrace (n=iraytrac@c-76-23-15-187.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 01:59.22 | *** mode/#brlcad [+o brlcad] by ChanServ |
| 02:03.50 | *** join/#brlcad starseeker (n=CY@ip72-218-16-62.hr.hr.cox.net) |
| 02:04.02 | starseeker | brlcad, you on? |
| 02:04.40 | louipc | what's up |
| 02:05.13 | starseeker | Question on "pic" |
| 02:05.20 | starseeker | what is it? |
| 02:05.32 | starseeker | I'm not sure whether to add it to the USE flags or just turn it on |
| 02:05.52 | starseeker | I could dig, but it's quicker to ask here as it's getting late and I want to try a build ;-) |
| 02:06.55 | starseeker | The gentoo ebuild policy has something about always using "pic" but I'm not sure if that's the same thing or not. |
| 02:07.38 | louipc | pic? I'm not sure |
| 02:10.53 | brlcad | starseeker: it's not a big deal -- it's fine on or off |
| 02:11.09 | starseeker | brlcad: Cool - thanks :-) |
| 02:11.10 | brlcad | you can get away with it on linux |
| 02:11.57 | brlcad | using --with-pic should potentially cut about 40% off the compile-time |
| 02:11.58 | starseeker | We might have a time if it with the ebuild - it sounds like the gentoo devs (some of them anyway) may not like the idea of internal versions of tcl/tk/etc |
| 02:12.07 | starseeker | works for me! :-) :-) |
| 02:13.02 | brlcad | using either --with or --without will cut the time -- the default is to compile both with and without PIC |
| 02:13.23 | brlcad | that's a libtool behavior, to guarantee portable libraries |
| 02:13.49 | louipc | oh wow I should use that then... it takes forever for me to compile |
| 02:15.47 | starseeker | brlcad: Looking at other ebuilds, I am seeing behavior where the prefix is being set as --prefix=${D}/usr/program in order to let portage do its thing of building in a temp directory and then do a final copy the install dir. Will this be a problem for any of the binaries? |
| 02:16.27 | brlcad | potentially, not clear |
| 02:16.49 | starseeker | OK. Nothing like trying :-) |
| 02:16.52 | brlcad | tools that have to find resources rely on the prefix-path as a search-path base for finding data resources |
| 02:17.10 | brlcad | they'll also search based on where the binary is, so it "should" still find what it needs |
| 02:17.15 | brlcad | if mged works, then it's fine |
| 02:17.16 | louipc | I used DESTDIR to install to a directory that I can then use to tar up the pkg |
| 02:17.48 | brlcad | DESTDIR is fine, because that's during make .. the path is already fixed during configure |
| 02:17.52 | louipc | yep |
| 02:18.45 | starseeker | hang on, phone... |
| 02:46.50 | louipc | dang cvs update doesn't pull in new directories! |
| 02:46.59 | starseeker | isn't that fun? |
| 02:49.04 | louipc | I wouldn't care about switching the world, only the projects I'd develop in. That's possible |
| 02:52.29 | louipc | haha cvs can't delete directories either |
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| 03:30.42 | starseeker | Me mutters under his breath and tries again to create a patch that patch will accept... |
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| 03:53.43 | louipc | uh! |
| 03:55.57 | starseeker | OK, after some arm twisting one of the guys on gentoo-dev-help conceded that a non-binary in /opt seemed a bit dubious but to try it if it was the simplest thing. |
| 03:59.05 | louipc | gentoo has no provisions for mondo packages that have their own libs? |
| 03:59.19 | louipc | I know tons of java pkgs re package java libs |
| 03:59.49 | starseeker | The gentoo philosophy is usually to "fix" the package so it can use system libs. |
| 04:01.22 | louipc | yeah that's ideal but is not always that possible. |
| 04:02.00 | starseeker | Yes. Unfortunately convincing folks that BRL-CAD is worth the exception may take a little arm twisting. |
| 04:02.42 | louipc | well BRL-CAD could always host the ebuild :D |
| 04:02.53 | starseeker | I guess if we have to ;-) |
| 04:03.05 | louipc | aren't there any rogue gentoo repos out there? |
| 04:03.16 | starseeker | Oh sure, there's even one specific to science packages |
| 04:03.24 | starseeker | but that wouldn't be in the "official" gentoo |
| 04:03.28 | brlcad | there's only a few options -- you either backport to 8.4 with a patchset, use 8.5*whatever* that we provide, use an 8.5* already in gentoo, or wait for 8.5 final |
| 04:03.31 | louipc | I know there are some portage tools other than 'emerge' for building/installing |
| 04:03.53 | starseeker | Usually the thing to do is use overlays |
| 04:04.06 | louipc | oh yeah I heard about that too |
| 04:04.17 | starseeker | brlcad: I think we should be OK in opt - we'll just pretend we're a really hard to install binary ;-) |
| 04:04.36 | brlcad | we can't install into /usr regardless |
| 04:04.47 | brlcad | there are conflicts that cannot be changed |
| 04:05.02 | starseeker | Right. IIRC, there are at least one or two cases where there are name conflicts with libraries having different purposes? |
| 04:05.25 | brlcad | there's more than two, although some are more obscure than others |
| 04:05.48 | starseeker | I'm going to attempt a "proper" /opt ebuild with the /etc settings and everything. Will /opt be OK for the Army's modules? |
| 04:05.55 | brlcad | all of our libs predate the ones we conflict with but that doesn't make the conflict any less problematic |
| 04:06.06 | starseeker | Right :-) |
| 04:07.03 | starseeker | Still building, no failures yet... it's like waiting for the other shoe to drop ;-) |
| 04:07.08 | brlcad | libbu, libbn, librt are the core conflicting ones that come to mind, they're part of brl-cad's geometric core and for various integration reasons are not likely to ever change, not that we'd want to change them |
| 04:08.16 | starseeker | Right. |
| 04:09.06 | brlcad | libbn conflicts with an internal library in OpenSSL iirc; librt conflicts with a deprecated real-time linux kernel library |
| 04:09.22 | brlcad | forget what libbu conflicts with, and google isn't helping -- that one was probably minor |
| 04:09.31 | brlcad | librt is the biggie, though |
| 04:09.52 | brlcad | that's are most important library and it conflicts with a kernel library |
| 04:09.54 | starseeker | I can probably check my revdep-rebuild report - that was pretty comprehensive, if at bit redundant... |
| 04:10.27 | brlcad | the library is fortunately "dead" and slowly being removed, so in 5-10 years it won't be a problem, but in the meantime it is |
| 04:11.23 | brlcad | libbn's probably something we possibly could sort out with the openssh folks, but it's still daunting when there are user-space binaries to sort out too |
| 04:11.38 | brlcad | since after-all, we could always just install libs into /usr/lib/brlcad/. |
| 04:11.44 | starseeker | Right. |
| 04:12.23 | starseeker | That may be a trick even in /opt - we can append /opt/brlcad/bin to the path but the other binaries will take precedence |
| 04:12.49 | brlcad | there are several user binaries that conflict, but most of those can be readily changed/renamed on our part (e.g. the 'wall' command that generates a geometric wall conflicts with the old "write a message to all users" command") |
| 04:13.18 | brlcad | i wouldn't care if the other binaries took precendence |
| 04:13.34 | brlcad | users that really care will find out pretty quickly if they really need that tool (unlikely) |
| 04:13.47 | starseeker | OK - I think that has to do with the ordering of the directories in the $PATH variable. |
| 04:13.51 | brlcad | there's only a handful, and last I checked they were pretty minor |
| 04:13.55 | starseeker | Gentoo will probably do the right thing by default |
| 04:14.02 | louipc | enigma hehe |
| 04:14.25 | starseeker | Well the build completed successfully, but the install command didn't like something. |
| 04:14.36 | starseeker | trying again without the $D prefix... |
| 04:15.20 | brlcad | if we really wanted to get fancy, brl-cad is really a suite of tools and would be broken up into somewhere between a dozen to a couple hundred different ebuilds |
| 04:16.04 | starseeker | Hehe. I doubt that would be worth it for quite a while - if people start using regularly a subset of BRL-CAD that might make sense. |
| 04:16.16 | brlcad | e.g. brl-cad's rt ray-tracer, mged modeler, image manipulators, ttcp, framebuffer tools, benchmark suite, archer modeler, etc etc |
| 04:16.18 | louipc | I know some people who've done that with other packages |
| 04:16.28 | brlcad | starseeker: yep, I quite agree |
| 04:16.29 | louipc | like perl CPAN |
| 04:16.39 | starseeker | CPAN is a headache |
| 04:16.58 | louipc | a dozen would be OK though |
| 04:17.05 | starseeker | Lisp has those problems too - I maintain my own asdf archive of lisp libraries |
| 04:17.37 | brlcad | ttcp is a good example, though -- it's a tool that's pretty brief, probably already in ebuild, yet technically we have the sources to it |
| 04:17.53 | brlcad | it's just one of the 405 or so |
| 04:18.55 | starseeker | That might be worth doing at some point. Just curious - was the main purpose of including these libraries to insulate BRL-CAD from changes which might impact the correctness of the program, or to make sure it built successfully on a variety of targets? |
| 04:19.07 | brlcad | yep, http://gentoo-portage.com/net-analyzer/ttcp/ |
| 04:20.18 | brlcad | starseeker: primarily because not every platform we support and build on has a convenient package management system, it's for user-convenience |
| 04:20.47 | starseeker | Ah. |
| 04:20.57 | brlcad | reduces support headaches substantially, and really just makes compilation go a whole lot smoother when you don't have to worry about getting X, Y, Z, etc before being able to build |
| 04:21.04 | starseeker | Very true. |
| 04:21.20 | brlcad | we merely just do the download for you, whether it uses it or not is entirely up to build settings and configuration |
| 04:21.56 | starseeker | One possibility I've seen before - if you have two tarballs - one with BRL-CAD, and one with supporting libraries, you can opt either to expand just brlcad or brlcad and brlcad-support to cover the two cases. |
| 04:22.34 | brlcad | i mean if you know it's required, and you're giving someone your code .. it seems utterly absurd to me that they have to go hunting all over the net for those required dependencies, have to deal with the various headaches of getting that dependency to build and do so *recursively* |
| 04:23.02 | brlcad | it puts some burden on our devs to make sure we bundle it cleanly and have the proper configure tests, but we generally do that once |
| 04:23.31 | brlcad | and for the folks that *do* have a package management system, it still "just works" and can be all disabled |
| 04:23.41 | louipc | well it's not so bad with smaller pkgs with only 1 or 2 deps :D |
| 04:24.30 | brlcad | even bigger packages have the problem too though, like building gnome by hand, for example .. that's just utter hell |
| 04:25.06 | louipc | ooh gnucash! hahah |
| 04:25.23 | starseeker | Or best of all, mplayer |
| 04:25.24 | brlcad | starseeker: i've seen that with the two-packages.. but what's the point? it's just a few megs of disk space and would require additional "are the files there" checks |
| 04:26.01 | starseeker | brlcad: My take on it is the same - stick 'em in and use 'em if needed. It seems to bug some people, but I don't really think it's a big deal in this day and age. |
| 04:26.28 | brlcad | i'm continually amazed by how many people are bothered just that the files are 'there' .. |
| 04:26.48 | starseeker | maybe someone is trying to get BRL-CAD onto an embedded system ;-) |
| 04:26.49 | louipc | yeah people have more disk space and bandwidth these days |
| 04:27.17 | brlcad | the package requires over a GB to compile under most configurations, if you're worried about the 20MB or so that the unused dependencies take up, you've got way bigger problems |
| 04:28.36 | starseeker | Heh - an embedded CAD system. Finally, something worse than Emacs to embed |
| 04:28.57 | brlcad | most of our tools would work with exceptionally limited resources, I think even classic mged only requires a couple MB at most then it just limits the size of the model you can load |
| 04:29.38 | starseeker | That would be great, but what would we do for a text editor? :-P |
| 04:30.08 | starseeker | Actually, I think Emacs is long overdue for a cleanup and re-factoring. |
| 04:30.37 | brlcad | you could have an mged major mode for geometry editing, a g-file major mode for traversing geometry files, hook into all the various ray-tracers just the same, maybe even overlay a framebuffer if emacs is running under X |
| 04:31.00 | starseeker | Hmm. |
| 04:31.08 | louipc | starseeker: haha that would be a job wouldn't it? |
| 04:31.27 | louipc | well you could get a team of 3 people to live to 100 |
| 04:31.28 | starseeker | Wait, are we talking about an Emacs mode or porting BRL-CAD to emacs? |
| 04:31.45 | louipc | emacs re-factoring? |
| 04:31.51 | starseeker | Ah :-) |
| 04:31.55 | brlcad | what's the difference, everything is a mode under the hood to emacs |
| 04:32.39 | starseeker | brlcad: True |
| 04:32.56 | starseeker | er s/has has/has had |
| 04:33.03 | starseeker | quick, to the caffeine! |
| 04:33.16 | brlcad | i mean there's a ton of wrapper/glue code you'd have, but it would all boil down to a handful of major and minor modes to the user |
| 04:33.39 | brlcad | not even that complicated really, mged is pretty well suited |
| 04:34.14 | brlcad | would sort of be like having dired-mode and gdb-mode |
| 04:34.25 | brlcad | just instead g-mode and mged-mode |
| 04:35.12 | starseeker | Boy would that ever be wild. |
| 04:35.47 | brlcad | would be a great little project for some student |
| 04:35.56 | starseeker | Indeed. |
| 04:36.07 | brlcad | i'd pay for that myself if someone was motivated :) |
| 04:36.17 | starseeker | Hehe. |
| 04:36.53 | brlcad | heh no |
| 04:37.06 | starseeker | At least it's using GTK now. |
| 04:37.07 | brlcad | i meant personally pay :) |
| 04:37.11 | starseeker | Ah :-) |
| 04:37.45 | starseeker | Maybe it was just me but between open-motif, lesstif, and Emacs there always seemed to be a little bit of an argument going on... |
| 04:37.51 | brlcad | there are 'other priorities' at yonder funding agency that are often not the same as those of the project at large or the open source or solid modeling communities |
| 04:38.00 | brlcad | everyone has their own needs that they want fulfilled |
| 04:38.02 | starseeker | Makes sense :-) |
| 04:40.13 | brlcad | the gui is our biggest problem |
| 04:40.38 | starseeker | Hehe - gentoo spit out a "QA" notice... |
| 04:40.39 | brlcad | i'm trying to make a change there, but there are several pieces of the puzzle that are involved |
| 04:40.47 | starseeker | <PROTECTED> |
| 04:40.47 | starseeker | <PROTECTED> |
| 04:40.47 | starseeker | <PROTECTED> |
| 04:40.47 | starseeker | showshot.c:122: warning: incompatible implicit declaration of built-in function ?strlen? |
| 04:40.54 | starseeker | brlcad: I can imagine. |
| 04:41.01 | starseeker | Axiom has similar problems. |
| 04:41.49 | brlcad | hm, that's odd -- it's not implicit -- it includes string.h |
| 04:42.55 | brlcad | strcpy is c89, it better |
| 04:43.13 | starseeker | cyapp@localhost ~ $ grep strcpy /usr/include/string.h |
| 04:43.14 | starseeker | extern char *strcpy (char *__restrict __dest, __const char *__restrict __src) |
| 04:43.29 | starseeker | Huh. Weird. |
| 04:43.45 | brlcad | what's your #include section at the top look like? |
| 04:44.07 | starseeker | you mean on showshot.c? |
| 04:44.09 | brlcad | yeah |
| 04:44.42 | starseeker | which directory is it in? |
| 04:44.52 | brlcad | src/nirt/shotshot.c |
| 04:44.56 | brlcad | er, showshot |
| 04:45.23 | starseeker | #ifndef lint |
| 04:45.23 | starseeker | static const char RCSid[] = "$Header: /cvsroot/brlcad/brlcad/src/nirt/showshot.c,v 14.13 2007/05/12 22:26:57 brlcad Exp $"; |
| 04:45.23 | starseeker | #endif |
| 04:45.24 | starseeker | #include <stdio.h> |
| 04:45.24 | starseeker | #include <stdlib.h> |
| 04:45.26 | starseeker | #include <ctype.h> |
| 04:45.28 | starseeker | #ifdef HAVE_STRING_H |
| 04:45.30 | starseeker | # include <string.h> |
| 04:45.32 | starseeker | #else |
| 04:45.34 | starseeker | # include <strings.h> |
| 04:45.36 | starseeker | #endif |
| 04:45.38 | starseeker | #ifdef HAVE_UNISTD_H |
| 04:45.40 | starseeker | # include <unistd.h> |
| 04:45.42 | starseeker | #endif |
| 04:45.43 | brlcad | grep HAVE_STRING_H include/brlcad_config.h |
| 04:45.44 | starseeker | #include "machine.h" |
| 04:45.46 | starseeker | #include "vmath.h" |
| 04:45.48 | starseeker | #include "db.h" |
| 04:45.50 | starseeker | #include "bu.h" |
| 04:46.17 | starseeker | #define HAVE_STRING_H 1 |
| 04:47.00 | brlcad | well, that's right |
| 04:47.16 | starseeker | Let me do another build, and I'll script the whole thing |
| 04:47.20 | brlcad | so the file is included, but not getting the decl's for some reason |
| 04:47.53 | starseeker | Is there a way to pass tcl and tk flags not to include the info/man files? They're showing up as collisions |
| 04:47.58 | brlcad | pastebin your string.h |
| 04:48.22 | brlcad | hm |
| 04:49.12 | starseeker | http://pastebin.com/dd3f7686 |
| 04:49.15 | brlcad | we actually just call the tcl/tk build system directly, and I don't see info/man options to actually not install them |
| 04:49.35 | starseeker | mrf. |
| 04:50.20 | starseeker | Oh, wait - it might be itk and itcl |
| 04:50.50 | louipc | I think iwidgets has a manpage that conflicts with a tcl manpage |
| 04:51.09 | brlcad | oh? |
| 04:51.23 | starseeker | There are a few complaints about dereferencing type-punned pointers - are they of any interest? |
| 04:52.01 | brlcad | feel free to post up the entire build log |
| 04:52.24 | brlcad | really depends what they're warnings about |
| 04:52.27 | starseeker | unless brl-cad saved it I'm afraid I didn't - I can re-do it, hang on.. |
| 04:52.36 | starseeker | http://pastebin.com/m3677e600 |
| 04:52.42 | brlcad | curious that you're getting additional warnings, though -- are there flags being added? |
| 04:52.52 | brlcad | is gcc being used and, if not, what is? |
| 04:52.57 | starseeker | Yes, gcc. |
| 04:53.05 | starseeker | let's see - my default flags are... |
| 04:53.24 | starseeker | CFLAGS="-O2 -march=i686 -pipe" |
| 04:53.24 | starseeker | CXXFLAGS="${CFLAGS}" |
| 04:53.38 | brlcad | ah, those are warnings in tcl/tk code |
| 04:53.46 | starseeker | Oh :-) |
| 04:53.53 | starseeker | sorry, should have looked closer |
| 04:54.08 | brlcad | i'm not really concerned about anything in src/other unless it's halting the build or conflicting something |
| 04:54.17 | starseeker | makes sense |
| 04:54.31 | brlcad | we don't fix/edit their code anymore than we have to |
| 04:54.54 | starseeker | OK :-) |
| 04:57.06 | brlcad | in the past I actually tried, mostly out of a particular need and in-part just a desire to help clean up some of their issues |
| 04:58.27 | brlcad | but found that it just wasn't worth it; you'd make a slew of build system fixes and it was nearly impossible to get them integrated (only a couple core folk generally understand a build system for things like tcl), or they were already fixed in their head, or they just didn't care, or some other update came that required clobbering everything |
| 04:59.33 | brlcad | didn't take long to learn that we just need to leave the deps alone -- integrate them as needed so that they "just work" when compiling as a dep but if they fail, they fail -- the user can always try to compile them directly themselves like they'd have to do otherwise |
| 05:00.02 | starseeker | Yep |
| 05:00.59 | brlcad | ahh, my cvs problems seem to have just solved itself |
| 05:02.40 | starseeker | I love it when problems do that |
| 05:05.57 | brlcad | i can only imagine that sf.net has a cron job that walks all of the projects looking for common cleanup-issues like stale locks, bad permissions, and other support-inducing issues that would be a burden |
| 05:09.30 | starseeker | I would think that keeps someone on their support staff sane ;-) |
| 05:15.52 | starseeker | OK, I need to re-do the build and provide a patch to disable the man files in the Makefile, but first sleep :-) |
| 06:51.09 | yukonbob | ...and hits hay |
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| 09:51.00 | MinuteElectron | Oh, shit. |
| 09:51.11 | MinuteElectron | brlcad: Did you have an ldap server running? |
| 09:57.34 | MinuteElectron | I am such an imbasele. |
| 10:00.44 | MinuteElectron | Yeah, I mucked up bad this time. |
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| 12:19.05 | ``Erik | hum |
| 12:19.08 | ``Erik | ho hum |
| 12:19.16 | ``Erik | hum, ho, hum! |
| 13:39.37 | starseeker | YES |
| 13:39.40 | starseeker | it worked |
| 13:39.49 | starseeker | mged starts |
| 13:59.39 | ``Erik | using gentoo's port ripoff build system? |
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| 14:48.39 | starseeker | ``Erik: You mean the FreeBSD rippoff? yep :-) |
| 14:50.26 | starseeker | I think it worked... |
| 14:50.58 | starseeker | Yep. Just need to do source /etc/profile to update the shell |
| 14:51.27 | starseeker | OK. Next and maybe last step is to go over the build log for any problems, but first laundry... |
| 15:10.39 | starseeker | brlcad: Are the files in src/tclscripts part of BRL-CAD or are they external? |
| 15:16.31 | louipc | so what BSD is a Unix rip off and so on and so on |
| 15:18.23 | louipc | starseeker: archer is part of BRL-CAD |
| 15:18.53 | starseeker | louipc: Ah. I'm seeing a few compiler warnings, but I don't guess they are serious enough to bother about now. |
| 15:19.05 | starseeker | most are tcl and friends, a few might be in BRL-CAD |
| 15:19.36 | starseeker | WOOOOO-HOOOOOO :-). It looks like the ebuild is functioning :) |
| 15:19.44 | louipc | hurrah |
| 15:19.45 | ``Erik | anything in src/other we tend to ignore |
| 15:20.06 | starseeker | Yes, I was looking for warnings not in src/other. Saw a few, but no big deal |
| 15:20.14 | ``Erik | and a lot of the other stuff has been fixed in cvs... sometimes I get a hair up my butt about those :) |
| 15:20.19 | starseeker | :-) |
| 15:20.48 | louipc | hair up your butt?? how queer |
| 15:20.52 | ``Erik | unfortunately, tcl precludes the use of CFLAGS="-W -Wall -Werror -ansi -pedantic" :( |
| 15:59.22 | starseeker | humph - it only works if the tcl and tk patches are in different files. I wonder why that is |
| 16:09.35 | brlcad | starseeker: they are part of brl-cad, the tclscripts are required by mged and loaded on start-up (mged finds them via a search path ordering) |
| 16:10.09 | brlcad | archer also uses the tclscripts as well (in part because it effectively has an embedded mged in it) |
| 16:13.13 | brlcad | minute: no big deal -- killing the process fortunately didn't do any harm :) |
| 16:13.45 | ``Erik | I need to buy a new fan, heh |
| 16:14.13 | brlcad | minute: also think you have/had something wrong in the config file: daemon: listen URL "/var/db/openldap-slurp/slapd.conf" parse error=3 |
| 16:16.58 | brlcad | minute: also, you did/do have sudo to run the slapd/slurpd startup scripts in /usr/local/etc/rc.d -- that would have been how to restart it |
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| 19:54.27 | minute | brlcad: Thank you, sorry again. |
| 20:02.46 | minute | brlcad: I hope you don't mind me installing phpldapadmin to my personal webspace. I am a total n00b at this and it would help a lot. |
| 20:08.37 | starseeker | brlcad: Where do I find a copy of the BSD Documentation License (BDL?) |
| 20:21.57 | brlcad | doc/legal |
| 20:25.49 | starseeker | Thanks :-) |
| 20:28.05 | starseeker | One think I don't have yet is the installation of all the doc files (pdf, txt, etc) into the /opt tree. Hmm... |
| 20:29.39 | starseeker | brlcad: Is there a list of "files that should go into /opt/brlcad/doc" (or I guess /usr/share/doc/brlcad would do in this case...) |
| 20:36.19 | starseeker | Oh, nevermind, I see it in /usr/share. |
| 20:41.02 | minute | Oh, this is crazy. |
| 20:41.55 | minute | brlcad: Is there any reason a site at ~MinuteElectron/ldap/htdocs/cmd.php would give me a 403 forbidden error? |
| 20:48.19 | minute | Ok, I need a break. |
| 21:10.46 | starseeker | brlcad: When I open the cups.g example in mged, nothing shows in the window - is this expected? |
| 21:15.41 | louipc | if you start mged then open it yeah |
| 21:16.17 | louipc | you can try `mged cups.g` that should display and open |
| 21:17.01 | louipc | otherwise you issue a command to draw the geometry (which I forgot) |
| 21:17.18 | louipc | use ls to list different components of the model |
| 21:23.52 | louipc | starseeker: aha usually `draw all` |
| 21:24.30 | starseeker | hmm - all not found |
| 21:24.56 | louipc | where's cups.g from? |
| 21:25.08 | starseeker | it's in the manual |
| 21:25.13 | starseeker | is there something better to test with? |
| 21:25.34 | louipc | oh it's a model you created? |
| 21:25.39 | starseeker | no |
| 21:25.43 | starseeker | hang on... |
| 21:25.46 | ``Erik | heh |
| 21:25.52 | starseeker | <PROTECTED> |
| 21:26.02 | ``Erik | 'tops' is a good command, then when you see what you want, you can do an 'e' |
| 21:26.17 | ``Erik | like, if tops tells you that "all.g" exists, do "e all.g" |
| 21:26.40 | starseeker | mged> tops |
| 21:26.41 | starseeker | cup.r/R cup_out.r/R eto_sub.r/R mug.r/R |
| 21:26.41 | starseeker | cup_in.r/R eto.r/R handle.r/R |
| 21:26.57 | louipc | probably cup.r/R |
| 21:27.27 | starseeker | draw cup.r/R |
| 21:27.27 | starseeker | db_lookup(R) failed: R does not exist |
| 21:27.27 | starseeker | db_string_to_path() of 'cup.r/R' failed on 'R' |
| 21:27.27 | starseeker | db_walk_tree: warning - cup.r/R not found. |
| 21:27.27 | starseeker | mged> |
| 21:27.39 | louipc | share/brlcad/7.10.2/db maybe |
| 21:29.00 | louipc | actually you should be able to just do `draw cup` |
| 21:29.38 | starseeker | mged> draw cup |
| 21:29.38 | starseeker | bn_mat_ck(cyl): bad matrix, does not preserve axis perpendicularity. |
| 21:29.38 | starseeker | <PROTECTED> |
| 21:29.38 | starseeker | MATRIX bn_mat_ck() bad matrix: |
| 21:29.39 | starseeker | <PROTECTED> |
| 21:29.41 | starseeker | <PROTECTED> |
| 21:29.45 | starseeker | db_recurse(cyl): matrix does not preserve axis perpendicularity. |
| 21:29.47 | starseeker | MATRIX bad matrix: |
| 21:29.49 | starseeker | <PROTECTED> |
| 21:29.57 | starseeker | bn_mat_ck(inside): bad matrix, does not preserve axis perpendicularity. |
| 21:29.59 | starseeker | <PROTECTED> |
| 21:30.00 | louipc | spam! |
| 21:30.01 | starseeker | MATRIX bn_mat_ck() bad matrix: |
| 21:30.05 | starseeker | <PROTECTED> |
| 21:30.13 | starseeker | db_recurse(inside): matrix does not preserve axis perpendicularity. |
| 21:30.15 | starseeker | MATRIX bad matrix: |
| 21:30.17 | starseeker | <PROTECTED> |
| 21:30.23 | starseeker | <PROTECTED> |
| 21:30.25 | starseeker | ERROR: db_walk_dispatcher() region 0 started with no state |
| 21:30.27 | starseeker | mged> |
| 21:30.29 | starseeker | oh, sorry |
| 21:30.31 | starseeker | my bad |
| 21:30.35 | starseeker | but drawing didn't show |
| 21:30.51 | louipc | I tried too I think there's something wrong with that model.. |
| 21:31.13 | brlcad | type dbversion |
| 21:31.13 | starseeker | will mged work loading the asc files? |
| 21:31.13 | louipc | try one in share/brlcad/7.10.2/db |
| 21:31.23 | brlcad | that looks like a v4 |
| 21:31.28 | starseeker | I am - cpu is crunching like crazy ;-) |
| 21:31.34 | louipc | brlcad: yep |
| 21:31.53 | starseeker | brlcad: Well, I uploaded all the ebuild goodies to the bug report. |
| 21:32.07 | starseeker | brlcad: Now we'll see how intense the flaming is ;-) |
| 21:32.27 | brlcad | gah, who put a v4 .g into cvs |
| 21:32.30 | starseeker | erm - what does Detached mean? |
| 21:32.33 | louipc | not me |
| 21:33.41 | brlcad | starseeker, that cup.g is useless to you, the v4 files are platform-specific .. every time I think we've gotten rid of them, one pops up somewhere |
| 21:33.48 | starseeker | Ah :-) |
| 21:33.50 | brlcad | it has to be converted to a v5 on the same platform that made it |
| 21:34.15 | brlcad | either way, that's a useless/boring .g .. pick one of the other ones that were installed in the db dir |
| 21:34.15 | louipc | :D |
| 21:34.29 | louipc | try the barbie toy jeep! |
| 21:34.33 | starseeker | Is there one that has a hope of loading in under an hour? |
| 21:34.50 | louipc | starseeker: what are you running man? |
| 21:35.09 | starseeker | lgt-test was chomping cpu like nobody's business, and I'm a dual P4 |
| 21:35.25 | starseeker | OK, toyjeep came up - let's try drawing it... |
| 21:35.42 | louipc | I'm on a pIII 866MHz and that loaded instantly pretty much |
| 21:35.57 | starseeker | toyjeep did, except I still don't see anything |
| 21:36.02 | louipc | draw all |
| 21:36.14 | starseeker | all does not exist |
| 21:36.16 | starseeker | grr. |
| 21:36.50 | brlcad | tops |
| 21:37.01 | brlcad | that lists the top-level geometry |
| 21:37.05 | brlcad | then e one of them |
| 21:37.11 | brlcad | e == draw |
| 21:37.37 | starseeker | OK, I did open on toyjeep.asc |
| 21:37.44 | louipc | opendb |
| 21:37.46 | brlcad | you can't open .asc files, open the .g |
| 21:38.18 | brlcad | you could import an .asc, but you'd still have to open a .g first to import it into |
| 21:38.24 | starseeker | I'm in brlcad-7.10.2/db and I'm only seeing .asc files |
| 21:38.39 | louipc | hmm |
| 21:39.07 | brlcad | then either you selected the wrong file menu option (import) or you're missing the binary files that would have been generated during compilation |
| 21:39.23 | louipc | :( |
| 21:39.37 | starseeker | one sec... |
| 21:39.43 | louipc | starseeker: hehe |
| 21:39.53 | starseeker | THERE they are |
| 21:39.57 | louipc | SWEET |
| 21:40.11 | starseeker | bingo |
| 21:40.13 | starseeker | sorry guys |
| 21:40.16 | brlcad | ah |
| 21:40.33 | starseeker | I have a few directories left over from when I was looking at what had to be patched. |
| 21:41.26 | louipc | lgt-test.g opened pretty much instantly for me :P |
| 21:42.01 | brlcad | there's no .g we provide that should not open instantly |
| 21:42.23 | starseeker | The .g files look fine - it didn't like getting handed the raw asc file though ;-) |
| 21:42.24 | brlcad | even massive 1GB models should pretty much open instantly |
| 21:42.34 | louipc | oooh |
| 21:44.08 | starseeker | Yep, working like a charm now. |
| 21:44.43 | starseeker | Installed in opt from an ebuild, environment variables seem to be working, license file where it should be... life is good :-) |
| 21:45.01 | louipc | congrats |
| 21:45.09 | starseeker | Thanks :-) |
| 21:45.44 | starseeker | Really y'all did all the hard work - it was just a question of making sure all the options are set correctly by the system. |
| 21:46.17 | ``Erik | prep takes ~40s on a ~1g file (almost all bot, if nto all) |
| 21:46.18 | starseeker | Now if the Gentoo devs just don't get a bee in their bonnet again about the use of /opt... |
| 21:47.48 | brlcad | prep isn't the same as opening the file, that's just a quick file scan |
| 21:48.26 | starseeker | Don't worry guys - I just missed the part that the db files were compiled in the build rather than being present beforehand. |
| 21:48.48 | starseeker | It's working like a charm now :-) |
| 21:48.50 | brlcad | i've seen the file i/o over nfs make it take longer than usual, but that's specific to an nfs setup |
| 21:49.04 | brlcad | CIA-4: poke |
| 21:50.12 | starseeker | So, what do we sub in for cups.g in the manual? |
| 21:51.14 | brlcad | i already fixed it, it's a v5 now |
| 21:51.38 | brlcad | i wouldn't suggest using that manual regardless, the ones on the website are better |
| 21:52.03 | starseeker | ah :-) |
| 21:52.17 | starseeker | You mean the pdf manuals? |
| 21:52.25 | brlcad | yes |
| 21:52.39 | starseeker | OK, sounds good |
| 21:52.58 | starseeker | I was curious about those, actually - do they exist only as pdfs? |
| 21:54.44 | starseeker | If they're LaTeX, perhaps they too could be rendered into html and replace the current html manual? |
| 21:54.45 | brlcad | no, they're available in another equally useless format |
| 21:54.50 | starseeker | lol |
| 21:55.33 | brlcad | the goal is actually to turn them into docbook, then stash them into the repository, keep them up to date and auto-generate pdf, html, txt |
| 21:55.44 | starseeker | Cool. |
| 21:56.00 | brlcad | a couple folks started on this (yet again) a couple weeks ago, but they seemingly have disappeared |
| 21:56.36 | louipc | maybe I should poke the poppler people to add docbook conversion |
| 21:56.36 | starseeker | Well, if the ebuild gets accepted that sounds like a good #2 task, assuming I won't stomp on any toes |
| 21:56.51 | louipc | right now you can convert to some other weird xml format |
| 21:57.08 | starseeker | How exacting are the formatting requirements? |
| 21:57.25 | starseeker | Do we need to precisely duplicate the visual style of the current versions? |
| 21:57.50 | brlcad | getting the straight-up conversion isn't too hard -- it's mostly what's the best way to automate the task given it's about 800 pages or so with images |
| 21:57.55 | brlcad | oh, heck no |
| 21:58.09 | brlcad | but it should maintain the content (with images) |
| 21:58.25 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/doc/html/manuals/mged/cup.g: don't put a v4 into the repository. if we must stash .g files, then at least stash a v5 so that it's not platform-specific. thanks to starseeker for pointing out the problem. |
| 21:58.26 | brlcad | that's what docbook is all about, just the structure, no presentation element |
| 21:58.36 | brlcad | about time CIA-4 |
| 21:59.02 | starseeker | OK. |
| 22:00.25 | louipc | starseeker: pdfimages in poppler will do it... |
| 22:00.38 | starseeker | that's a help :-) |
| 22:01.11 | starseeker | oh good, gentoo has poppler in portage... |
| 22:01.28 | louipc | looks like they got rid of that weird xml conversion |
| 22:02.02 | louipc | oh maybe not |
| 22:03.33 | minute | brlcad: Qucikee: does 'cmd.php' mean anything to you? |
| 22:04.35 | brlcad | hmm |
| 22:05.15 | brlcad | not immediately, should it? |
| 22:05.54 | minute | <PROTECTED> |
| 22:06.10 | brlcad | starseeker: if you're really interested in working on it, you'd probably have a lot easier success working with the original ms word documents, converting to some tagged format or even importing to something else (like OO or WP) that might export docbook, then just dealing with cleanup |
| 22:06.26 | brlcad | minute: AAH |
| 22:06.32 | brlcad | yes, now it means a whole lot more |
| 22:06.35 | starseeker | Word? ick. Yes, that would be easier. |
| 22:06.47 | brlcad | like I said,.. useless :) |
| 22:07.45 | louipc | I tried to make an html with that doc via OOo but it turned out pretty bad :/ |
| 22:08.13 | brlcad | minute: you're undoubtedly getting hit by the vulnerability detection modules in apache -- they perform hundreds of regex comparisons on every URL to prevent intrusion abuse -- cmd.php being an exceptionally common one with the right URL structure |
| 22:09.15 | minute | brlcad: ffs |
| 22:09.34 | minute | Anything I can do? |
| 22:10.10 | brlcad | yeah, that's it: mod_security-message: Access denied with code 403. Pattern match "/(cse|cmd)\\.(c|dat|gif|jpe?g|jpeg|png|sh|txt|bmp|dat|txt|js|html?|tmp|php|asp)\\?" at REQUEST_URI [severity "EMER |
| 22:10.14 | brlcad | GENCY"] |
| 22:10.35 | brlcad | rename the file? :) |
| 22:10.40 | minute | That won't work. |
| 22:11.37 | minute | Since it is included in another file. |
| 22:12.08 | minute | and it completely mucks up when I try to change the url |
| 22:12.33 | minute | anyway, sleep for me now |
| 22:12.43 | starseeker | Mrf. The gentoo guys are appalled at the patching of files generated by configure and suggest tracking it back to the proper area... |
| 22:12.48 | starseeker | grrr |
| 22:12.55 | starseeker | Come on TCL, do it right... |
| 22:13.14 | brlcad | minute: good night |
| 22:13.22 | brlcad | i presume this is for myldapadmin? |
| 22:13.26 | minute | yeah |
| 22:13.30 | minute | phpldapadmin |
| 22:13.36 | brlcad | k |
| 22:13.50 | minute | goodnight |
| 22:14.03 | brlcad | goodnight, i'm working on ldap more today too |
| 22:14.11 | brlcad | hopefully will make some good progress while you're sleeping ;) |
| 22:14.21 | minute | :) sounds good, thanks |
| 22:14.40 | starseeker | brlcad: Assuming the Gentoo devs are ever satisfied, I'd be glad to take a look at the Word -> docbook question |
| 22:14.55 | brlcad | i'd be glad too :) |
| 22:15.40 | minute | I hope so :D |
| 22:16.29 | brlcad | er, that was to starseeker :) .. i'm thrilled about the web work, and actually have been reading up on ldap for a while now :) |
| 22:16.44 | brlcad | still soaking it all up |
| 22:16.50 | minute | heh |
| 22:17.19 | brlcad | had a mild diversion with 'adventure' last night.. would make for a nifty easter egg :) |
| 22:17.49 | starseeker | hehe |
| 22:18.19 | starseeker | OK, I'm starting to daydream about ousting TCL/TK and replacing it with QT4 - that's probably a good indication I should get supper. |
| 22:18.32 | louipc | indeed |
| 22:18.33 | brlcad | heh |
| 22:21.16 | starseeker | QT4 + VTK... mmmmm... |
| 22:21.22 | starseeker | Alright, food |
| 23:00.28 | Maloeran | An apparently good and reliable IQ test for anyone looking for something to do : http://iqtest.dk/main.swf |
| 23:00.46 | Maloeran | Unlike most online tests, there are truly challenging questions near the end |
| 23:03.13 | Maloeran | And it's an interesting test, entirely based on logic and pattern recognition |
| 23:15.25 | *** join/#brlcad PrezKennedy (n=Matt@74.86.45.130) |