IRC log for #brlcad on 20070616

01:11.27CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/attach.c: jeebus, why in the world is a vls being used for a constant string..
01:52.49*** join/#brlcad poolio (n=poolio@c-69-251-3-107.hsd1.md.comcast.net)
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02:47.24*** join/#brlcad Daytona (n=jra@c-68-55-36-65.hsd1.md.comcast.net)
02:47.57DaytonaSean, are you there?
02:56.43Daytonaanybody have any details on the mged ubits command problem?
02:56.57Daytonaoops, I mean "units" command
02:58.30brlcadhey Daytona
02:58.38brlcadhm, is this a first? :)
02:59.33DaytonaYep
03:00.09DaytonaI saw the "units" command in the TODO
03:00.17DaytonaWhat is the problem?
03:00.44brlcadwell, I just noticed today -- doesn't report the units if you just run units
03:01.08DaytonaOh, I noticed that, too
03:01.36DaytonaBut the help message doesn't say it will report the units
03:01.51Daytonaand the units are displayed in the GUI
03:02.31brlcadiirc it used to report the units, though
03:02.37brlcadjust like title
03:03.02DaytonaProbably should, for consistency with other commands
03:03.11brlcadplus, displaying in the gui doesn't really help if you're in console mode :)
03:03.25brlcadhm, so you think it never did?
03:03.30DaytonaYeah, should be an easy fix
03:03.48DaytonaI don't recall for sure whether it did or not
03:03.50brlcadi swear i remember it returning the units.. or maybe there's just some other command I'm thinking of that also reports it
03:04.19brlcadbut I even had that wired in my mind, as I was actually modelling something earlier
03:05.09DaytonaMaybe I'll take a look at it this weekend
03:06.28brlcadjust took a quick look at wdb_units_cmd.. it has print statements in there to report the current units
03:06.33brlcad"You are now editing in ..."
03:06.49brlcadso something fishy
03:07.25DaytonaIs it putting the string in interp.results?
03:07.32brlcadwould hunt it down, but I'm deep in the middle of a graphical crash reporter :)
03:07.45DaytonaI'll have a look
03:08.16brlcadit does do a tcl_appendresult
03:08.36DaytonaOK, I'll look at it this weekend
03:09.08DaytonaRight now I need to hit the sack. Have to get up early to take the grandson to a ball game
03:09.23brlcadcool
03:09.32brlcadat ripken's?
03:09.33Daytonabye
03:09.52DaytonaNo, he's playing in a tournament in Essex
03:09.59brlcadoh, even better ;)
03:10.08brlcadwell, best of luck to him
03:10.13brlcadand g'night!
03:10.14Daytonasee ya, thanks
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04:07.36thing0hey guys
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10:42.17thing1hey
10:42.34thing1hey
10:42.37thing1dammit
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12:44.14thing1hmmm
12:44.21thing0finally
12:44.25thing0back to normal
13:04.03brlcadhowdy thing0
13:04.15brlcadyou're on and off too quickly :)
13:04.19brlcad(to respond)
13:04.25thing0howdy brlcad
13:04.28thing0yeah
13:04.44thing0my router was dropping out today
13:07.01thing0so what you been up to brlcad?
13:07.35brlcadcoding ;)
13:07.43thing0hehe
13:07.56thing0but of course
13:07.56brlcadtrying to get a few last things implemented so a release can be posted
13:07.56thing0;)
13:08.14thing0i have been getting more into project management stuff
13:08.29thing0listening to podcasts while doing other stuff ;)
13:10.54b0efany way to prevent mged from using mouse follow?
13:11.33b0efit's impossible to switch to the listener when the mouse is hovering over the graphics window
13:15.30``Erik"project management stuff"/
13:15.31``Erik?
13:15.37thing0yeah
13:15.46thing0my next goal in life
13:15.50thing0project manager
13:15.59``Erikheh
13:16.02thing0yeah
13:16.12thing0I get to be a senior project engineer by default
13:16.18thing0just have to sit around for a while
13:16.23thing0PM I have to work for
13:16.33thing0ahh
13:16.36thing0;)
13:16.47``Erikrelated to software development, primarily
13:16.53thing0yeah
13:17.09``Erikdeep dependancy chains, radically un-equal "resources", ...
13:17.18thing0hmm
13:17.49``ErikI even have a ruby prototype of a time mgmt/todo list program that tries to address a lot of the shit other osftware doesn't :)
13:17.50thing0I want to be able to learn general skills in PM
13:17.53``Erikuhmmmm
13:17.59``Erikjoel spolsky
13:18.03thing0so that it can be transferable to any environment
13:18.26``Erikwrote an article on it that is interesting (just bear in mind that he was the project manager for excel... so bring a salt lick for any excel related comment in that article)
13:18.29thing0i am in engineering construction at the moment
13:18.40thing0ahh ok
13:18.48thing0you got the name of the article?
13:19.04``ErikI'd assert that software development (an artform) and construction are so radically different, that the skills are simply not transferrable :(
13:19.10``Eriknot off the top of my head
13:19.29thing0i disagree
13:19.29thing0the principle of project management is transferable
13:19.33thing0but it has to be adapted
13:19.34``Erikperhaps
13:19.47thing0there is QA etc in construction
13:19.48``ErikI'm just skeered, cuz there's a notion that a programmer is a programmer
13:19.52b0efI've just completed a semester in PM;)
13:19.57thing0hehe
13:20.01``Erikso you can grab a java UI developer... and make 'em do os C work
13:20.11``ErikI've seen it happen WAY TOO FUCKING MUCH over the past 3 years.
13:20.11``Erik:(
13:20.19``Erik('cept more in the other direction)
13:20.37thing0yeah
13:20.51``Erikand denying perfect fit situations where both the customer and developer really really want to be because of body count on some other high profile project
13:21.02thing0lol
13:21.07thing0nah keep going
13:21.07thing0;)
13:21.15``ErikI'm on vacation, that trainwreck of fucked up idiotic criminal management does not exist.
13:21.22thing0hehe
13:21.23thing0ahh ok
13:21.31thing0you should chill then
13:21.32thing0;)
13:21.39``Erikin 1.5 hours, I'm driving to the airport
13:21.43``Erikyo
13:21.46thing0ah
13:21.49thing0where you going?
13:21.54``Erikpicking someone up
13:22.40thing0ahh
13:22.47thing0hehe
13:23.24thing0hehe
13:23.36thing0PARTY at ``Erik house
13:23.38``Erikand hopefully enough left over for the next month *cough*
13:23.45thing0hehe
13:23.48thing0sure
13:24.11``Eriknot sure, though... people from missoura like the booze O.o
13:24.41thing0ahh
14:01.26thing0hmm
14:01.37thing0``Erik : One hour remaining
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15:31.14thing07 minutes ``Erik
15:31.16thing0go go go
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17:55.33thing0you back ``Erik?
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18:32.41thing0cya pppl
18:32.43thing0bye!
18:32.44*** part/#brlcad thing0 (n=ric@210-84-22-12.dyn.iinet.net.au)
20:00.44*** join/#brlcad akreal (n=ak@87.249.56.197)
20:25.31akrealhello all!
20:48.39*** join/#brlcad jimmyz (n=asd@host81-129-128-152.range81-129.btcentralplus.com)
20:55.37jimmyzanyone in?
20:58.09akrealjimmyz: aloha!
21:18.08CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03johnranderson * 10brlcad/src/mged/ (8 files):
21:18.08CIA-4BRL-CAD: Eliminated direct access of interp->result (Not reliable since tcl 8.0).
21:18.08CIA-4BRL-CAD: See the comment in tcl.h.
21:18.08CIA-4BRL-CAD: This also fixes the "units" command.
21:27.02*** join/#brlcad Daytona (n=jra@c-68-55-36-65.hsd1.md.comcast.net)
21:27.42Daytonasean, are you there?
21:32.03jimmyzanyone in now?
21:32.12Daytonahi
21:32.17jimmyzhiya
21:32.24jimmyzi installed brlcad yesterday
21:32.39Daytonaany problems?
21:32.51jimmyznow my comp says i have a file called c:program, which may render computer unstable
21:33.07jimmyzthe file doesn't have a suffix for file type
21:33.28jimmyzis it connected with the install?
21:34.26DaytonaI've never installed in Windows, so I can't help you, but if anyone else is listening, they might help
21:34.41jimmyzhmm
21:34.57jimmyzhow does brlcad compare with autocad?
21:35.28Daytonabrlcad doesn't do drawings, it's a solid modeller
21:36.33jimmyzi don't follow
21:36.50DaytonaMostly uses CSG (components built up from combinations of simple primitive shapes)
21:37.04DaytonaCSG == Combinatorial Solid Geometry
21:37.47jimmyzok. what do you use it for
21:37.54DaytonaAutocad does engineering drawings and some BREP (Boundary Respresentation)
21:38.44jimmyzhmm. i'm lost
21:38.58DaytonaThe Army uses it to create detailed 3D computer models of vehicles, which can then be interrogated via raytracing
21:39.07jimmyzis brlcad used for particular things like vehicles?
21:39.40DaytonaActually, it can be used to model any objects
21:40.10DaytonaIt has excellent raytracing capability
21:40.54jimmyzwhat is that useful for?
21:42.03DaytonaIn simualtions that model bullet paths through vehicles, or photon paths through scenes, things like that
21:43.18jimmyzwouldn't you need FEA to know if a bullet gets through a surface?
21:44.58DaytonaIt doesn't do the physics, just the geometry. BRL-CAD can tell you what lies along a line through the model, but another application would calculate how far along that line a bullet would penetrate
21:46.27jimmyzhmm
21:46.32jimmyzwhat do you use it for?
21:46.44DaytonaI work for the Army :-)
21:47.59jimmyzoh right
21:48.07jimmyzyou design vehicles?
21:48.32DaytonaNo, I work on the software used to evaluate vehicles
21:49.15jimmyzhow does the software evaluate vehicles?
21:49.16DaytonaThat software uses BRL-CAD
21:49.34jimmyzcrash testing?
21:50.21DaytonaNo, simulations of bullet penetration and damage. BRL-CAD supplies the vehicle geometry information.
21:52.01jimmyzhmm
21:52.07jimmyzwhich vehicles have you worked on?
21:52.42DaytonaMany, unfortunately, I can't get into details here :-)
21:52.52jimmyzahh
21:53.42DaytonaBRL-CAD can also make some good images of models
21:54.15jimmyzif i want to design a boat would brl be suitable?
21:55.20DaytonaIf you actually want to build the boat, probably not. It can't make the required engineering drawings.
21:55.59jimmyzwhat would an engineering drawing contain that brl wouldn't do?
21:56.04jimmyzexcuse my ignorance
21:57.16DaytonaEngineering drawings show things like dimensions, curve radii, surface finishes, ...
21:57.52jimmyzbrl just shows lines?
21:58.13DaytonaBRL-CAD can do very nice colr shaded images of the model, but it won't automatically add dimensions, etc
21:58.24Daytonaoops, I mean "coloc"
21:58.38DaytonaThat is "color"
21:58.55jimmyzhmm
21:59.09jimmyzso can't do plots from it?
22:00.34DaytonaIt can do plots, but they are different that what you would get from Autocad
22:02.16jimmyzso what is the use of brl without engineering drawings?
22:02.21jimmyznot dissing it.......
22:03.34DaytonaIt was not intended for design and build. It was originally created for the Army's use.
22:03.59jimmyzwhat was it created for then, and why did the OS it?
22:04.43DaytonaOthers have used it for things like x-ray treatment planning.
22:05.17jimmyzradiotherapy you mean?
22:05.30DaytonaThe Army created it for its raytracing capability. To quickly determine what lies along any line through the geometry
22:05.55DaytonaX-Ray treatment for cancer turmors
22:06.01jimmyzi see
22:07.07DaytonaYou could build your boat in BRL-CAD and make images and drawings of the boat from any viewpoint.
22:07.37DaytonaAnd use that boat model in another application that needed to know about boat geometry.
22:08.08DaytonaBut boat manufacturers would not find your boat model useful.
22:09.16jimmyzdo you deal with boats at all?
22:09.22Daytonano
22:09.33DaytonaThat's theNavy :-)
22:09.58jimmyzlol
22:10.09jimmyzare you an engineer?
22:10.32DaytonaNo, Computer Scientist
22:10.56Daytonahow about you?
22:11.41jimmyzvision science
22:12.09jimmyzbut i have silly ideas of building a boat
22:12.32jimmyzcomplex business tho' hydrodynamics and all
22:12.32DaytonaNow my ignorance, what is vision science?
22:12.39jimmyzhow the brain sees
22:12.43DaytonaOh
22:13.18DaytonaYes, as I said, you can modle the geometry with BRL-CAD, but it doesn't know about physics.
22:13.45jimmyzwhich programs do?
22:14.38akrealDaytona: physics is weight and so on? but not color and transpacy?...
22:14.42DaytonaDon't know what might be available free, but things like NASTRAN do FEA
22:15.06Daytonacorrect, BRL-CAD can handle color and transparency
22:15.25jimmyzcatia?
22:16.35DaytonaCATIA, Pro/Engineer, Unigraphics, ... are CAD systems specifically designed for design-to-build.
22:17.28DaytonaThey do mostly geometry, but connect with other packages that can do physics, kinematics, weight and balance, ...
22:17.47jimmyzgod, it's a complicated business
22:18.12DaytonaSure is, that's why I stay with simple computer software!!!!
22:20.10jimmyzlike brl?
22:20.20Daytonayes :-)
22:20.56jimmyzbrl is simple?
22:21.47DaytonaIt's actually a pretty simple idea, that has a lot of tools and capabilities built up around it.
22:22.23DaytonaIt's predecessor was started in the 1970's
22:23.00jimmyzi saw the pic of someone on a pdp with it
22:23.31DaytonaIt was written to replace having to look through engineering drawings of vehicles to determine what wasa along a line through the vehicle
22:24.08jimmyzoh right
22:24.15DaytonaOne of the guys in the picture was probably Mike Muuss, the original designer of BRL-CAD
22:26.43Daytonagot to go now, see you around
22:27.06jimmyzthanks a lot
22:27.08jimmyznice talking

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