irclog2html for #brlcad on 20070316

00:04.20IriX64wish you could see my screen, I attached to X and it came up and havoc is there, but ogl still gives me a segmentation fault when i attach to it, sigh.
00:06.02IriX64hah it rt'ed
00:06.38IriX64where does it go? nothing on the graphics screen.
00:19.54IriX64ill get back to you.
00:23.46``Erikheh, I tend to ignore ogl and use Xl ...
00:24.02IriX64man it....should work
00:24.25``Erikon modern equipment, X stomps the living crap out of ogl for raytrace results...
00:24.45IriX64based on what hardware?
00:25.22IriX64my geForce runs at 1g
00:26.10IriX64well 1.2 but the screen can't keep up (flickers)
00:30.49IriX64what did you guys change?
00:30.59IriX64in 7.6.2 it comes up fine.
00:38.38deltazapIriX64: is that apache one of the 'hush hush' files or an example file?
00:40.32IriX64huh? just something i was compiling
00:40.42deltazapah
00:41.05IriX64whats a hush hush file?
00:42.07deltazapwell, i hadn't seen that before
00:42.17IriX64ah
00:42.25deltazapbut then again, i still have difficulty looking at the included examples :P
00:43.00IriX64as they told me, the usual method is to do a tops to examine the database, then do an e "something"
00:48.28deltazapoh great, i need to middle click in this tutorial :(
00:48.37deltazapi've only have one button
00:49.07deltazap:P
00:50.50IriX64cut it in two :)
00:51.03IriX64err 3
00:51.40deltazap:P
00:51.40IriX64which tutorial are you at?
00:51.49deltazaplesson 6
00:51.54deltazapi just started the other night
00:52.48deltazapoh, volume 2
00:52.56IriX64what does that one show you how to produce (im way behind)
00:53.01deltazapthe goblet
00:53.30IriX64be sure to specify bill of materials that Gold must be used :P
00:53.50deltazaphaha
00:55.04deltazapafter working with mged for a while, i realized tab completion would be nice :)
00:55.44IriX64put it in ... be a contributor (unlike me)
00:56.11deltazapi'd have no clue how to implement that
00:56.30IriX64examine tops20
00:57.09IriX64up arrow works tho
00:58.02deltazapif i make an object (primative), how can i change it's properties later
01:08.54``Erikone button? a ma
01:08.55``Erikmac?
01:09.38``Erikevery bit of ARL data irix64 has access to is an "open source", nothing "hush hush"
01:10.23deltazap``Erik: yes
01:11.35deltazapi'm guessing the little bit of problems that i have with some of the compositing of the framebuffer with the wireframe is because of apple's x11 as well
01:12.35``Erikthe ctl/option/apple keys modify clicks so you can get 3 button activity with a 1 button mouse
01:13.22``Erikoddly enough, mac is probably the MOST supported os... the 4 heaviest developers at the moment all use macs as their destop
01:13.41deltazapi kept trying ctrl-click, but t kept zooming out on me so i thought it wasn't working in x11
01:13.44deltazapoh, that's funny :)
01:14.02``Erikapple+click will zoom in option+click will rotate
01:14.05``Erikiirc
03:21.33brlcadthere are no hush hush files floating around anywhere
03:22.05brlcadno geometry, no images. period.
03:22.48brlcaddeltazap: tab-completion would be nice .. i.e. usual readline support
03:23.22brlcadyou can edit geometry after creating by a couple ways.. there's the Edit->primitive selection option in the menu as well as several ways on the command line
03:23.57deltazapah, ok
03:24.05deltazapone more question
03:24.17deltazaphow can i render an image so i can use it elsewhere
03:31.07brlcaddeltazap: on the mged command line, rt -sSIZE -o filename.pix  or on the raytrace control panel under "Destination" you can put a filename
03:31.28deltazapah, i see :)
03:31.53brlcadpix is a raw image format, not useful in most image tools, so you'd then want to run pix-png outside mged (e.g. pix-png myimage.pix > myimage.png)
03:31.54deltazapand i just found the export RT Script
03:32.10deltazapi've messed with pix-png once before
03:32.27brlcader, pix-png -sSIZE myimage.pix > myimage.png
03:33.08brlcadwhen/if you set a size, the size has to be used on all the pix* tools, else tool defaults to 512x512
03:33.32deltazapah, ok
03:33.46brlcadfyi by default, rt will make pix files read-only so you have to rm -f filename to delete or chmod them
03:46.12deltazapah, thanks :)
03:46.48brlcad(common newbie issue) ;)
08:23.45*** join/#brlcad clock_ (n=clock@zux221-122-143.adsl.green.ch)
10:34.07*** join/#brlcad Twingy (n=justin@74.92.144.217) [NETSPLIT VICTIM]
10:55.50CIA-7BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * 10brlcad/include/config_win.h: POSIX's fmax added
10:58.09CIA-7BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * 10brlcad/src/librt/g_brep.cpp: missing return statement added
11:07.25``Erikblargh
11:11.24*** join/#brlcad jack- (i=jack@dub.minimal.nl)
14:23.20CIA-7BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/librt/g_metaball.c: disable the "big bounding sphere" in plot as it confuses users.
14:24.06*** join/#brlcad Elperion (n=Elperion@p54874ee6.dip.t-dialin.net)
14:52.25CIA-7BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/mged/edsol.c:
14:52.25CIA-7BRL-CAD: Fix bug that caused a segfault when the last metaball point was deleted.
14:52.25CIA-7BRL-CAD: Fixed display when no point is selected. Removed debugging bu_log.
15:35.45CIA-7BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/mged/typein.c: fix an off by one error in metaball prompting.
17:07.33*** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=mario_du@bas3-sudbury98-1168048679.dsl.bell.ca)
17:16.51IriX64http://www.pastebin.ca/397655   benchmark, anybody interested?
17:20.40brlcadthose numbers are looking much better
17:29.05MaloeranWhat's the hardware?
17:33.22IriX64amd64
17:33.30IriX64model 3800+
17:33.37IriX641g mem
17:35.29MaloeranMy 8 cores Xeon only seems to be 3.5 times faster, though I guess it does not scale too well
17:36.43MaloeranOh the 3800+ is a X2 of course, dual-core
17:38.23MaloeranActually, my build is not optimized
17:38.51IriX64my is but debug is in there
17:40.21IriX64i did nothing to your data, all is as you gave me.
17:40.35brlcadMaloeran: not the same comparison either
17:41.05Maloeranbrlcad, it depends what you mean by "shader". It's presently an user callback
17:41.14brlcadthe benchmark images have other characteristics like scene-lights, various shaders, recursion, that all affect the rtfm number
17:41.51brlcadi mean like for actual image generation -- rfdemo level support for making pretty pictures with various settable material properties
17:42.04brlcadnot just the libraries capacity to have them, but their existence :)
17:42.24MaloeranAh, so you mean actually writing the shaders :)
17:42.55MaloeranYes, I really plan to do that since... about an year. I presently feel I terribly need to take a break from raytracing
17:43.52MaloeranThe old demo had dancing lights code that could be imported without too much trouble, although it wouldn't support distributed processing or frame buffering
17:47.13MaloeranWorking alone for 8 months on something without cooperation or collaboration is really demotivating, I guess that's why it's called "work"... It's difficult to maintain focus against other projects that involve cooperation and teamwork
17:54.51brlcadMaloeran: yep, to be expected some -- variety is the spice of life!
17:55.30brlcadwhy do you think I also work on BZFlag? :)
17:55.42brlcadand other open source projects for similar reasons..
17:55.53Maloeran:) What is BZFlag? I have other projects as well
17:56.14brlcadyou've never played bzflag?
17:56.33MaloeranBut I think I'm really tired of raytracing at this point, I solved all problems on paper 1-2 years ago and it now has no appeal whatsoever. There are times I think I feel physical pain when I force myself to work on it
17:56.50IriX64BZFlag=get to work, the boss is on the way? ;)
17:57.06brlcadit's a game .. one of the most popular open source games ever actually, been around for more than a decade, continues to be developed and continues to gain popularity actually unlike a lot of games
17:57.12MaloeranOh BZFlag, I read about it, I haven't tried
17:57.25MaloeranVery nice project
17:58.11IriX64reminds me of quake:)
17:58.22brlcadthat's where the other half of my time goes
17:58.30IriX64heh
17:58.39brlcadwhen the commits aren't flowing in here, it's probably because i'm working on bzflag
17:58.42MaloeranI have asked Survice if I could only work part-time for a little while, put my mind on new problems and stuff I like
17:58.46brlcador i'm out rowing ;)
17:58.46MaloeranEheh great
17:59.57MaloeranI'm starting to really like climbing, even in a huge interior gymnasium
18:00.33IriX64good thing rounds a shape or i would be out of shape :)
18:01.29IriX64ill be back when the builds finished.
18:02.31MaloeranAnd my unsafe ( -ffast-math, etc. ) hand-picked optimisation for the BRL-CAD benchmark is now 9 times faster than IriX64's, that's more like it :}
18:03.38brlcadyeah, it would be nice if some more aggressive flags were added during configure
18:04.42brlcad-ffast-math is particularly problematic on some platforms, but there are other useful ones that should be added like the alignment flags
18:05.06brlcadand arch-specific -mcpu style flags
18:15.19*** join/#brlcad ``Erik (i=erik@c-69-250-155-85.hsd1.md.comcast.net)
18:20.00Maloeran-mcpu has been deprecated long ago, it's -mtune these days
18:20.57brlcadyep, hence style
18:21.25MaloeranI like how it says I'm 19594 times faster than the reference, it shows the age of BRL-CAD :)
18:23.57brlcadyeah, one of the very first actually reported 1 ;)
18:24.23brlcadrunning a ray-trace could take days
18:24.38dtidrow_workisn't VGR dead now?
18:24.46brlcadyeah
18:24.55brlcadchuck has her platters sitting in his office
18:25.32dtidrow_workthought it had gotten retired some time ago
18:26.40IriX64Maloeran: does rt discriminate between colors?
18:27.09IriX64heh a red thread a green thread ...
18:28.43IriX64rgb all you need? wait... maybe 256 colors, = 256 threads?
18:35.18IriX64just spectulating.
18:36.25MaloeranYou could theorically shoot different wavelenghts independantely, for even greater realism, but I never heard anyone doing that and BRL-CAD sure doesn't
18:37.02Maloeranindependently, rather
18:37.11IriX64was wondering where it would be usefull
18:38.58IriX64would be difficult to co-ordinate the rays, unless you had the thread report hit/miss or something
18:39.07MaloeranFor photo-realistic rendering of scenes with complex transparent mediums with non-parallel surfaces ( glass prisms )
18:39.25brlcadbrl-cad does shoot ranges of wavelengths in libmultispectral
18:39.32IriX64heh true color :)
18:39.34MaloeranOh? Neat
18:40.30brlcadmore of the overall everything including the kitchen sink approach
18:40.59IriX64heh the doitall approach, as opposed to the doitoit :)
18:47.05IriX64mmm rt glitches every 20 seconds to 50% cpu, you're good.
18:47.56IriX64ahh now its got something to do iguess its at 99%
18:53.40IriX64430mb ram, dunno how much of that is rt
18:53.51IriX64wait i will
18:54.05IriX6415.984k
18:54.14IriX6415,984k
18:54.28IriX64steady good job.
19:08.01IriX6441,624, looks like it grabbed another chunk.
19:08.37IriX64its climbing :(
19:10.15IriX644k chunks
19:22.45CIA-7BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10rtcmp/ (tri.c tri.h Makefile.am adrt/adrt.c): beginning of triangle caching
19:41.09*** join/#brlcad dli (n=dli@wireless-194-246.uchicago.edu)
19:41.51dlican I specify a nonbending start point with pipe?
19:43.48*** join/#brlcad ^Albe^ (n=alberto@host150-54-dynamic.56-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it)
19:46.02*** part/#brlcad ^Albe^ (n=alberto@host150-54-dynamic.56-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it)
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21:44.27IriX64http://www.pastebin.ca/398002   < === optimizide, all debug off bench
21:44.43IriX64optimized too
21:45.04IriX64really?
21:45.19``Erikalignment issues
21:45.27IriX64i usually leave it on for the protection it affords as said
21:46.07IriX64err help it affords in tracking stuff.
21:46.22IriX64protects me against my self.
21:46.28``Erikthe further you get form "./configure", the less we can help you
21:46.32``Erikfrom
21:46.43IriX64heh ive learned that lesson
21:47.25``Erik(now people who really know their shit, the further they get from ./configure, the more they can help us... but...)
21:48.08IriX64configur has a plethora of options, sometimes i play with them ... just to see.
21:49.02``Erikslews of options, many don't show up with --help... I tend to call the script two different ways... so those two ways... on those arch/os platforms I use... tend to work
21:50.09``ErikI'd imagine brlcad has a couple different ways he calls the script, and on different arch/os platforms
22:01.26clock_``Erik: now the wiggly outlines in rt-edge are fixed, having been caused by a race condition, aren't they?
22:01.56``Erikyeah, how many cpu's is your p3?
22:02.34IriX64``Erik, just to set the record straight i'm not one of the guys you mentioned, I'm just a hacker, i do best starting with something that already exists.
22:03.36``Erikheh, I think I have a pretty good feel for what your abilities are, irix64... I would be highly surprised if you seriously schooled brlcad or me... :) but it's all good *shrug*
22:05.04``Erikclock: the patch and comments are pretty straight forward... in painting to the frame buffer, it used the correct y value to "seek", where writing to a file just blasted the next scanline done, whether or not it was out of order...
22:05.16``Erikentire scanlines were swapped :)
22:06.08``Eriktweaking things so I had 400 threads on a 4 core box made teh issue a lot more consistent, and doing both display framebuffer (-F/dev/Xl) and pix-fb on the output file side by side made it obvious
22:22.18MaloeranAh, seems I'll be in Maryland around next Friday
22:22.27``ErikO.o eh?
22:22.43``Erikthe 'completed contract' meeting? or setup for something new? :D
22:25.01MaloeranApparently, a demonstration of RF to Justin and friends
22:26.06IriX64for some reason i think it affects X too, not entirely sure yet.
22:26.39``Erikaight, interesting.... I haven't heard of that O.o heh
22:27.03IriX64:)
22:38.00clock_brlcad: and when will a version with the fix come out?
23:25.32IriX64That math library is intense.
23:30.37IriX64brlcad: how big is your mged.exe?
23:32.42IriX64heh ``Erik pipes up and says give it a rest dude, there's always somebody with a bigger one :)
23:37.24IriX64http://www.pastebin.ca/398133    <-- just so you know i put the magic thing back.
23:37.36IriX64now to fix it.
23:46.58IriX64dudes... your comparing your magic number to the *pointer?
23:50.14IriX64:)
23:52.50IriX64I'll simply use if( (_magic) != (_magic)) error out ;)
23:56.11IriX64gotta go walk the k9 bbiab.

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