| 08:44.07 | *** join/#brlcad clock_ (n=clock@zux221-122-143.adsl.green.ch) |
| 08:44.28 | clock_ | Hello |
| 08:44.52 | clock_ | Do you know how to make an animation, where the model I created is rotating? |
| 08:45.03 | clock_ | I want it for better clarity how it's composed. |
| 08:45.56 | clock_ | There seems to be rt_simple manpage missing - is it a bug? |
| 08:46.22 | clock_ | And when in the mged console and I press pageup, pagedown and then type a command, the command is inserted *before* the prompt instead of after it, and then is ignored. |
| 08:46.27 | clock_ | Is this also a bug? |
| 14:26.21 | *** join/#brlcad clock_ (n=clock@zux221-122-143.adsl.green.ch) |
| 15:03.34 | brlcad | clock_: yes, regarding page up/down bug .. regarding rt_simple, not really though a manpage would be nice |
| 15:03.47 | brlcad | feel free to write one.. it's a simple tool :) |
| 15:05.47 | clock_ | I found some guide for animation. |
| 15:19.50 | brlcad | clock_: there was a message posted to the list several months ago for how (but Butler) for doing exactly that (rotating an object, making an animation) |
| 15:19.58 | brlcad | s/but/from/ |
| 15:21.10 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/openNURBS/ (241 files in 8 dirs): (log message trimmed) |
| 15:21.10 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: initial import of the openNURBS initiative's nurbs toolkit. the toolkit |
| 15:21.10 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: consists of code for reading/writing .3dm files used by Rhino as well as nurbs |
| 15:21.10 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: evaluation and other geometry processing facilities. the library is being |
| 15:21.10 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: evaluated for .3dm support as well as potentially gutting the existing nurbs |
| 15:21.13 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: primitive and using openNURBS evaluation routines instead (still probably need |
| 15:21.15 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: to implement ray shot evaluation). this is version 200612050 (aka 4.0). |
| 15:22.12 | clock_ | brlcad: I have read about the keyframes I think this will be better than a simple rotation. |
| 15:24.50 | brlcad | a better animation guide is really needed -- i'm not too fond of the existing, though it does go into detail |
| 15:25.22 | brlcad | it's not even really a guide |
| 15:25.28 | brlcad | it was a technical paper about the technique |
| 15:28.36 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/openNURBS/on4-gcc4-patch: the user-provided gcc4 patch that fixes compilation was applied (basically added a lot of explicit this-> designations), no need to keep the file around though |
| 15:32.34 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/TODO: review 'eclectic' from GSI as a tessellation approach, review and merge the other GSI modifications |
| 15:34.00 | *** join/#brlcad docelic (n=docelic@212.91.113.119) |
| 15:39.27 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/external/Makefile.am: if endgame framework simulation module compilation was requested, traverse into the EndgameFramework dir |
| 15:40.15 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/external/EndgameFramework/Makefile.am: stub makefile.am so traversal will work |
| 15:47.20 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: generate the endgame framework makefile |
| 17:23.05 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: use the originator/vendor for 'compiler' instead of the name of the compiler since we may use multiple at once in some odd configurations |
| 18:16.30 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/openNURBS/opennurbs_zlib.h: zlib wasn't included, so update code to reflect usage of a usual zlib.h |
| 19:28.56 | *** join/#brlcad dtidrow_work (n=dtidrow@host169.objectsciences.com) |
| 19:45.19 | *** join/#brlcad clock_ (i=clock@84-72-60-48.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
| 19:46.10 | clock_ | I think the user doesn't care if Animation techniques happened to be presented as an ARL technical report, presented by a user group, or are considered a principle of effective modelling. |
| 19:46.37 | clock_ | I think what the user cares is to distinguish between animation, primitives, raytracing, and other technical terms. |
| 19:47.10 | clock_ | Therefore I suggest the documentation on the website not to be categorized according to into which bureaucratical category this or that document happened to fall, but according to the content itself. |
| 19:49.38 | brlcad | clock_: i quite agree |
| 19:50.46 | brlcad | whenver the new website comes on-line, it'll be better organized like that .. not much worth futzing with the existing unless something's painfully bad |
| 19:50.48 | clock_ | I also wouldn't categorize into "documentation" and "other resources" |
| 19:50.52 | brlcad | unless you'd like to clean it up? :) |
| 19:51.20 | clock_ | I want to find out about term/concept X. Is there a black box into which I type "X" and it says "look under other resources, not under Documentation"? |
| 19:51.38 | brlcad | yeah, we need a wiki for that |
| 19:52.01 | clock_ | no for that you just need to edit the headlines |
| 19:52.48 | brlcad | er, what headlines? |
| 19:53.28 | clock_ | also "project site" is ridiculous. Isn't the brl-cad.org a project site by itself? Isn't BRL-CAD a project? |
| 19:54.01 | clock_ | I suggest "Project site" to be renamed to "sourceforge page" |
| 19:54.39 | clock_ | Also "introduction into MGED" into "tutorial for beginners" |
| 19:54.44 | brlcad | clock_: yes and no, but the suggest is noted |
| 19:55.18 | clock_ | Really, when a beginner comes, he has an idea "I want to learn the basics", and he has no idea that "learn basics" translates into "introduction to mged" |
| 19:55.21 | brlcad | it's not really a tutorial for beginners, it's a lot of tutorials |
| 19:55.29 | brlcad | unless you want to call it one massive tutorial |
| 19:55.37 | brlcad | which doesn't seem right given it's length |
| 19:56.05 | brlcad | mind you, I quite agree for the need .. again, I ask -- you willing to make the changes? :) |
| 19:56.34 | clock_ | "principles of effective modelling" sounds like a textbook. I would name the link "how to model effectively with BRL-CAD" |
| 19:57.01 | brlcad | that's what I mentioned about it just not being much worth the effort without the rest of the site infrastructure in place |
| 19:57.18 | clock_ | I mean a beginner will think "this sounds like a title of some general abstract textbook about CSG, which is not specific to BRL-CAD, therefore I'm gonna skip this link, this link will not probably contain the information I am looking for" |
| 19:57.22 | brlcad | else someone(tm) spends several days/weeks of valuable time going through customizing the site |
| 19:57.46 | brlcad | clock_: you do know where those docs come from? |
| 19:58.16 | brlcad | they are books .. printed books .. makes a lot more sense when someone drops 10 pounds of books in your lap, all related to brl-cad |
| 19:58.39 | brlcad | they were literally just "tossed up" onto the website in the fastest way possible just so they were accessible |
| 19:59.03 | clock_ | You are thinking the 60's style, when people had to work only with one computer software. |
| 19:59.04 | brlcad | there never is/was a claim that more work isn't needed, that they can't be better organized, that more effort "should" go towards them |
| 19:59.12 | brlcad | bullshit |
| 19:59.21 | brlcad | i'm saying you're not listening :) |
| 19:59.25 | clock_ | Today they have to work with hundreds of different softwares. The documentation must be simplified and accessible as much as possible. |
| 19:59.44 | clock_ | It's not possible anymore to conceive everything like a book that is supposed to be read on long winter evenings. |
| 19:59.47 | brlcad | AND I AGREE |
| 19:59.52 | brlcad | are YOU going to do it? |
| 19:59.56 | clock_ | no |
| 20:00.03 | brlcad | then stop preaching |
| 20:00.09 | clock_ | Why? |
| 20:00.19 | brlcad | because it's counterproductive |
| 20:00.23 | clock_ | I am just telling my suggestions |
| 20:00.56 | brlcad | well, you diverged from a suggestion a while ago |
| 20:01.48 | clock_ | Do you have a new version of the website being prepared somewhere? |
| 20:03.06 | brlcad | the ideas are fine, and welcome in themselves -- especially for the website, a lot is very much needed -- what is up there now is utterly the *bare minimum* effort that was possible, becuase there wasn't available effort for anything more really |
| 20:04.05 | brlcad | the basic design and layout are done, there was a couple people testing out various content management systems as well and that was narrowed down to what is needed |
| 20:04.56 | brlcad | but yes, there is a new version that has been under development since the first files were thrown up -- it's just the website has priority under most everything else usually (for better or worse) |
| 20:05.21 | clock_ | Sorry I don't have time to help you with the website now I am trying to make an animated raytrace of a coloured Ronja part |
| 20:05.29 | brlcad | there's not enough community involvement, so the bare minimum stays up there |
| 20:05.45 | brlcad | and I'm trying to integrate the new foundation for improved NURBS support :) |
| 20:05.56 | clock_ | I had a wiki on Ronja but I abandoned it after some time because |
| 20:06.01 | clock_ | - it got hacked |
| 20:06.06 | clock_ | - it got filled with spam |
| 20:06.07 | brlcad | heh |
| 20:06.21 | clock_ | - the content people posted was sometimes inaccurate and misleading |
| 20:06.29 | clock_ | - it required frequent security updates |
| 20:06.36 | clock_ | - it was hard to upgrade |
| 20:06.44 | brlcad | doesn't have to be an open wiki, that would be pretty crazy |
| 20:07.05 | clock_ | I stayed back with manually-edited PHP HTML and I am happy with it |
| 20:07.16 | brlcad | and several of those issues are specific to the wiki you chose |
| 20:09.22 | brlcad | it's really just been a matter of priorities .. the website is probably the #3 biggest problem are right now |
| 20:09.30 | clock_ | I tried first twiki, later when it got hacked I switched to Mediawiki |
| 20:09.51 | clock_ | Well your website isn't the worst |
| 20:10.08 | clock_ | the worst website in my opinion is of the linux kernel, http://www.kernel.org |
| 20:10.30 | brlcad | #2 supporting existing users sufficiently |
| 20:11.02 | brlcad | #1 modeling interface, usability |
| 20:15.56 | brlcad | brl-cad's old website was manually-edited php html .. it was a pain in the arse to maintain |
| 20:16.13 | brlcad | and to add major features was unthinkable |
| 20:16.54 | brlcad | there's a lot of good effort going into CMS that make them appealing, even if they have limitations or a learning curve |
| 20:17.58 | brlcad | anyhow we're pretty much past that learning curve -- it's down to just actually installing and setting it up. the content is gathered together, the design is set, graphics created .. just need the time to set it up some weekend |
| 20:18.27 | clock_ | I was surprised that I modelled a lens from glass and it really distorted the image - and caused a light from a light source to be concentrated |
| 20:19.03 | brlcad | it should give you perfect refraction |
| 20:19.26 | clock_ | Yes looked like a perfect refraction |
| 20:19.27 | brlcad | which isn't realistic for normal glass, but useful |
| 20:19.47 | clock_ | what do you mean with perfect refraction? |
| 20:20.22 | clock_ | Without chromatic aberration? |
| 20:20.22 | dtidrow_work | no wavelength depedence, perhaps? |
| 20:20.34 | brlcad | there's no participating media interaction .. microscopic air bubbles that might distort the image, blur, polarize, band filter, etc |
| 20:23.08 | brlcad | the multispectral library could do wavelength-dependent interactions, give you polarizations, filterings, etc .. if you wrote the appropriate multispectral shader to simulate the medium (glass in this case, or a sufficient phong or cook-torrence shader perhaps) |
| 20:26.20 | clock_ | I have great difficulty with that because even Firefox copies everything as one line |
| 20:26.32 | clock_ | Maybe giving key-chans for download would be more convenient. |
| 20:27.16 | brlcad | key-chans? |
| 20:27.27 | clock_ | yes, key-chans |
| 20:27.50 | brlcad | ~key-chans |
| 20:29.53 | *** join/#brlcad dli (n=dli@nsit-dhcp-035-057.uchicago.edu) |
| 20:29.58 | clock_ | hmm, key-chans seems to work even on OpenBSD - with their chronically exotic versions of various UNIX utilities. This one is using awk as I can see |
| 20:32.12 | dli | I'm learning "Learning about Boolean Expressions", the auto operation order is confusing to me, can I specify the order like ( shape1 u shape2) - ( shape3 u shape4) |
| 20:35.30 | brlcad | dli: there are a couple commands that accept infix notation, but most are prefix |
| 20:35.45 | brlcad | maybe see http://www.cs.man.ac.uk/~pjj/cs2121/fix.html for a conversion |
| 20:35.59 | dli | brlcad, thanks |
| 20:36.23 | brlcad | or build it up if you want to keep it simple |
| 20:37.03 | clock_ | I am sure for most people the necessity to cut-copy-paste UNIX shellscripts from a website and type a lot of typo-prone commands would be the ultimate turnoff |
| 20:37.06 | dli | brlcad, you mean, I first got shape1 + shape2, etc? |
| 20:37.06 | brlcad | make object outer: shape1 u shape2 .. then object inner: shape3 u shape 4 .. then final object: outer - inner |
| 20:37.18 | clock_ | and that it would motivate them to stop using BRL-CAD and start using some commercial competition instead |
| 20:38.44 | brlcad | clock_: and for a valuable minority, hopefully encourage them to contribute to help make the open source project better |
| 20:39.23 | clock_ | brlcad: the problem is, I see these problems on majority of the tools, and I unfortunately don't have time to engage in improvement of all of them |
| 20:39.28 | brlcad | there's lots of great ideas, and lots of energy going around -- just not towards the tools in a unified manner so much |
| 20:39.35 | clock_ | I think it's more efficient to engage in improvement of my own crap, i. e. Ronja |
| 20:40.09 | brlcad | clock_: i didn't mean you specifically this time ;) |
| 20:40.22 | clock_ | When people send me ideas about Ronja ("this link should be called differently because it's confusing"), I put the into my TODO list and they get eventually done :) |
| 20:40.44 | brlcad | that is the issue -- everyone has their own investment and requirements.. have to get people excited and interested in contributing, making it "worth it" for them |
| 20:41.17 | brlcad | as do I, massive TODO file |
| 20:41.24 | brlcad | and gets towards #2 that I was talking about |
| 20:42.23 | brlcad | we simply have way more coming in than can go out |
| 20:42.29 | dtidrow_work | brlcad: how many K is that TODO file? ;-) |
| 20:42.32 | brlcad | given current involvement |
| 20:43.20 | brlcad | dtidrow_work: not really representative by K as I'll consolidate something that might be a man-year's effort into a 1-liner |
| 20:43.55 | dtidrow_work | ah |
| 20:44.29 | brlcad | clock_: the animation tools are not production-ready, if I didn't say that before -- they were a hack implemented 15 years ago to make a few movies and haven't changed since |
| 20:44.59 | dtidrow_work | I love those on the todo list - one innocent looking line explodes into a whole mess of work... :-\ |
| 20:45.17 | clock_ | 15 years ago lol :) |
| 20:45.21 | brlcad | yeah .. "* add support for levels of detail" |
| 20:45.31 | dtidrow_work | lol |
| 20:45.43 | brlcad | "librt-based path tracer" |
| 20:45.46 | clock_ | I wrote a game for ZX Spectrum 10 years ago and recently I finally published it :) |
| 20:46.31 | dtidrow_work | in basic? |
| 20:46.52 | clock_ | no in Z80 assembler |
| 20:47.06 | dtidrow_work | gosh, even ten years ago the ZX was old |
| 20:48.32 | brlcad | hmm.. looks like there's currently 77 items in the todo file, 46 in the bugs file, 23 in the feature tracker, 48 in the bug tracker, and about two dozen outstanding support requests via e-mail (that will each take about a half a day of time to respond to) |
| 20:49.16 | dtidrow_work | heh |
| 20:49.36 | dtidrow_work | so how many man-decades does that mean? ;-) |
| 20:50.04 | brlcad | compiled a list of pressing modeler needs here locally after getting together with several of them .. the list they generated of the most pressing needs accummulated to about 8 man-years of work iirc |
| 20:50.51 | Maloeran | But that's 6 months of brlcad and ``Erik work, right? :) |
| 20:50.56 | brlcad | i dunno for the whole list.. it's probably on the order or 15-150 years .. depends on the polish :) |
| 20:51.25 | brlcad | Maloeran: heh.. |
| 20:51.48 | dtidrow_work | brlcad: do you even remember what 'sleep' is? ;-) |
| 20:52.09 | Maloeran | A glibc wrapper around the syscall, of course |
| 20:52.29 | dtidrow_work | ha ha ha |
| 20:52.32 | brlcad | plenty of time to sleep when I'm dead |
| 20:53.03 | brlcad | which might not be too long after a few more years like this |
| 20:53.14 | dli | how do I adjust a parameter of a defined shape (prim)? |
| 20:53.21 | brlcad | but then rowing, lifting, and biking keep me young ;) |
| 20:53.41 | brlcad | dli: you want the command-line method, or the gui method? |
| 20:54.02 | brlcad | command-line: sed object .. then a variety of commands depending on the edit |
| 20:54.10 | dli | brlcad, I prefer cli, the GUI prim editor is confusing also |
| 20:54.12 | brlcad | gui: go to the edit menu |
| 20:54.23 | brlcad | prim selection |
| 20:54.37 | Maloeran | SURVICE is working on an immigration visa and they put June 1st as date to begin as an employee, there's no way I can get a driving license before then... Seems I'll do a whole lot of biking too :) |
| 20:54.39 | brlcad | enter primitive name, hit enter.. should show parameters that can be adjusted |
| 20:55.09 | dli | brlcad, rror: Unable to do <keyboard solid edit start> from SOL EDIT state. |
| 20:55.09 | dli | Expecting VIEWING state |
| 20:55.10 | brlcad | er, can't get a license in six months?? |
| 20:55.23 | brlcad | dli: ah, you're already editing "something" |
| 20:55.27 | Maloeran | Not in Canada, takes 12 months to get a "real" license allowing one to drive without supervision |
| 20:55.31 | brlcad | type: reject or accept |
| 20:55.51 | brlcad | ahh, provisional timeframe |
| 20:56.04 | Maloeran | Or should I look for some obscure state that delivers driving licenses by mail within 5 days? |
| 20:56.06 | dli | brlcad, must be the GUI editor, I couldn't figure out the prim editor :( |
| 20:56.33 | brlcad | dli: :) .. there should also be accept and reject menu items on the edit menu |
| 20:57.00 | clock_ | If this is my last words, then it's cause by a salad dressing which is already 3 months beyond it's horizon |
| 20:57.41 | brlcad | nasty |
| 20:57.43 | Maloeran | If you managed to overcome the natural vomiting reflex, it can't have been that bad |
| 20:57.49 | clock_ | smells good, tastes good... |
| 20:58.07 | clock_ | Now Saddam can come with his Anthrax - I am resistant to biological weapons |
| 20:58.23 | clock_ | Actually - he can't. 1) he doesn't have biological weapons, 2) he suffered clinical death |
| 20:58.24 | dtidrow_work | lol |
| 20:59.30 | dtidrow_work | rope neckties generally lead to 2 :-) |
| 20:59.37 | dli | brlcad, can I just remake the prim? it's unioned, sed just gives me a warning |
| 21:03.37 | clock_ | lol viewsize eye_pt orientation - is the script going to ask me about my sexual orientation? |
| 21:04.55 | dli | brlcad, yes, kill && in works better |
| 21:08.10 | brlcad | dli: yes you can |
| 21:08.35 | brlcad | that's actually expected use, even if it's being referenced by another object |
| 21:08.41 | Maloeran | What is that animation you are trying to record, clock_? |
| 21:08.47 | brlcad | so you can swap out arbitrary geometry as needed |
| 21:11.29 | Maloeran | Recording an animation seems like a simple thing to do, I just dump the raw frames and mencode the resulting file to a more standard format |
| 21:11.52 | ``Erik | mal: if you need, I can help ya learn to drive... provided I get my truck working, or you buy a car... you ain't learnin' on my m3 :D (my truck is manual, autos are a lot easier, but I personally don't call that driving). I THINK, for an adult, it's only like 3 or 6 mo, MAYBE less... |
| 21:12.10 | ``Erik | brlcad: new website? eh? |
| 21:12.23 | brlcad | ``Erik: yah, what? |
| 21:12.38 | ``Erik | clock: sourceforge, put it in 'feature requests' or 'bugtracker' and stfu. Also; if you want to claim one and do it... DO IT |
| 21:12.39 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/openNURBS/ (3 files): remove the z_ prefix protection so that openNURBS can be linked against an installed system zlib library (there were no namespace collisions) |
| 21:12.39 | Maloeran | Eheh, thanks Erik. I think I'm going to get one of these 2 places Smart car |
| 21:12.49 | brlcad | that was something I started years ago when I first started |
| 21:13.01 | ``Erik | like... 8 yrs ago? |
| 21:13.01 | ``Erik | hah |
| 21:13.09 | brlcad | naht that long |
| 21:13.41 | ``Erik | unfortunately, I have too much experience with webby type things... if it's drudge work, fuck off, but if ti's just a hurdle, mebbe I cna help :) |
| 21:14.35 | brlcad | was seriously working on it about 4 years ago, and then had to shelve it to make the open sourcing happen |
| 21:15.00 | brlcad | it's been worked on a bit since, I even paid someone to work on it for a while, but still was usurped by other priorities |
| 21:15.28 | ``Erik | I've grown irate enough to decide that I amke my own priorities. |
| 21:15.48 | brlcad | ``Erik: I feel exactly the same -- had I needed the site 10 years ago, I would have spent the weeks and would have made something kick ass |
| 21:16.10 | brlcad | now it's just boring tripe that takes way too long and involves too much fruitless hacking |
| 21:17.04 | Maloeran | ``Erik, seems to be 6 months in Maryland for a license. Is a license from a state valid in another? |
| 21:17.05 | brlcad | getting the site itself isn't a big deal, that's part why I really want a CMS up so that after whatever goonie is gone that set it up, the site can still be maintained and improved |
| 21:17.10 | ``Erik | after I build a perf testbed app to compare rayfarce and adrt |
| 21:17.15 | brlcad | Maloeran: yes |
| 21:17.21 | Maloeran | Because there seems to be states with far less... restrictive requirements |
| 21:17.30 | ``Erik | mal: usually, MIGHT require taking a test, but no probation period |
| 21:18.24 | brlcad | yeah, I knew a few friends that drove down to VA to get their license because the test was easier |
| 21:18.24 | ``Erik | when I moved from washington to missouri, I had to take a written test, eye exam, and then I got a license... when I moved from 'missouri' (tn with a mo license), I just had to take an eye exam |
| 21:18.24 | brlcad | but hey, the test really isn't hard -- if you're failing, there's probably a reason |
| 21:18.47 | Maloeran | Eheh, nice. A car, I'm sure that drives just like a bicycle :) |
| 21:18.58 | Maloeran | I think I'll get something like : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smart_Fortwo |
| 21:19.05 | brlcad | ahh, the driving test should be the least of your worries ;) |
| 21:19.07 | ``Erik | for the most part, bicycles have to follow car rules when on the road |
| 21:20.03 | brlcad | there are a couple tricks to the test (usually stop lights and proper parallel parking), but more get the written test wrong |
| 21:20.23 | ``Erik | look at the retard redneck idiots who drive... it can't be THAT difficult |
| 21:20.33 | dtidrow_work | heh |
| 21:20.34 | ``Erik | and if you're feeling really REALLY inbred, just go to wv for the test |
| 21:20.35 | brlcad | which usually just means they don't understand the laws that they're supposed to be abiding by (or the test has poorly worded questions) *ahem* |
| 21:20.36 | ``Erik | *duck* :D |
| 21:20.52 | Maloeran | Tests are rather difficult in Quebec I heard... Some people go get a license in the states because they can't get one here |
| 21:20.53 | brlcad | don't think there's is much different from MDs |
| 21:21.08 | brlcad | er, theirs |
| 21:21.26 | ``Erik | most of it is undertsanding the signals being presented |
| 21:21.37 | ``Erik | red light means stop, double yellow in the middle means no pass, etc |
| 21:21.39 | Maloeran | Ah well, 6 months is good, I can manage biking for a month or two initially |
| 21:22.17 | ``Erik | the apt complex I lived in for my first 6mo in md is right across 95 from survice |
| 21:22.41 | ``Erik | when we went to that restraunt in marks mazda, we passed it |
| 21:23.11 | ``Erik | the one that made me sick o>O |
| 21:25.24 | ``Erik | hrm |
| 21:25.28 | ``Erik | rooms or bedrooms/ |
| 21:25.36 | Maloeran | 5 rooms, 2 bedrooms |
| 21:25.44 | ``Erik | the one I had was 9 rooms, plus a deck |
| 21:25.49 | Maloeran | Oh, okay :) |
| 21:26.17 | ``Erik | and a wood burning fireplace, and covered parking, and ... |
| 21:26.18 | ``Erik | :) |
| 21:26.28 | dtidrow_work | ``Erik: where was this? |
| 21:26.37 | ``Erik | um, belcamp |
| 21:26.40 | ``Erik | behind the hotel |
| 21:26.45 | ``Erik | 'aborwood' or something |
| 21:26.59 | Maloeran | Requirement for MD driving license : "Two documents establishing your Maryland residency" |
| 21:27.00 | ``Erik | arborwood, even |
| 21:27.34 | ``Erik | mal: power bill is sufficient for one, apt pmt is probably sufficient |
| 21:28.24 | clock_ | clock@kestrel:~/creat/ronja/trunk/3d$ ./moss.rt |
| 21:28.24 | clock_ | ./moss.rt: line 1: 24787 Segmentation fault (core dumped) rt -M $* -o moss.pix tetrax.g tetrax 2>>moss.log <moss.rtanim |
| 21:28.30 | clock_ | wohoo :) |
| 21:28.45 | ``Erik | ooohhhh, you better fix that, clock |
| 21:29.15 | Maloeran | ``Erik: I mean I can't just apply now and wait 6 months from this point |
| 21:35.40 | clock_ | ``Erik: I can send the files |
| 21:37.03 | ``Erik | mal: I think the 6mo assumes education... |
| 21:37.10 | ``Erik | clock: sf.net/projects/brlcad |
| 21:38.03 | clock_ | Does this help? |
| 21:38.15 | clock_ | #0 0x1c008158 in do_pixel (cpu=0, pat_num=-1, pixelnum=15018) at worker.c:491 |
| 21:38.15 | clock_ | <PROTECTED> |
| 21:38.15 | clock_ | <PROTECTED> |
| 21:38.15 | clock_ | <PROTECTED> |
| 21:38.15 | clock_ | <PROTECTED> |
| 21:38.18 | clock_ | <PROTECTED> |
| 21:38.20 | clock_ | <PROTECTED> |
| 21:38.23 | clock_ | <PROTECTED> |
| 21:38.25 | clock_ | <PROTECTED> |
| 21:38.28 | clock_ | <PROTECTED> |
| 21:38.30 | clock_ | <PROTECTED> |
| 21:38.33 | clock_ | <PROTECTED> |
| 21:38.35 | clock_ | <PROTECTED> |
| 21:38.38 | clock_ | <PROTECTED> |
| 21:38.40 | clock_ | <PROTECTED> |
| 21:38.43 | clock_ | <PROTECTED> |
| 21:38.46 | clock_ | <PROTECTED> |
| 21:38.48 | clock_ | <PROTECTED> |
| 21:38.51 | clock_ | <PROTECTED> |
| 21:38.53 | clock_ | <PROTECTED> |
| 21:38.56 | clock_ | <PROTECTED> |
| 21:38.58 | clock_ | <PROTECTED> |
| 21:39.01 | clock_ | <PROTECTED> |
| 21:39.03 | clock_ | ---Type <return> to continue, or q <return> to quit--- |
| 21:39.06 | clock_ | <PROTECTED> |
| 21:39.08 | clock_ | <PROTECTED> |
| 21:39.11 | clock_ | <PROTECTED> |
| 21:39.13 | clock_ | <PROTECTED> |
| 21:39.16 | clock_ | <PROTECTED> |
| 21:39.55 | clock_ | I crashed at moss.pix.6 |
| 21:40.04 | clock_ | clock@kestrel:~/creat/ronja/trunk/3d$ ls -la moss.pix.5 |
| 21:40.04 | clock_ | -r--r--r-- 1 clock users 120000 Jan 5 22:37 moss.pix.5 |
| 21:40.04 | clock_ | clock@kestrel:~/creat/ronja/trunk/3d$ ls -la moss.pix.4 |
| 21:40.04 | clock_ | -r--r--r-- 1 clock users 120000 Jan 5 22:36 moss.pix.4 |
| 21:40.04 | clock_ | clock@kestrel:~/creat/ronja/trunk/3d$ ls -la moss.pix.6 |
| 21:40.07 | clock_ | -rw-r--r-- 1 clock users 44400 Jan 5 22:37 moss.pix.6 |
| 21:40.28 | clock_ | The path is an almost-circular path around the object |
| 21:42.46 | brlcad | clock_: what version is that? |
| 21:53.55 | brlcad | nothing obvious in that particular stack, though the line doesn't match anything sensible in my version |
| 21:54.10 | brlcad | s/stack/frame/ |
| 21:55.02 | clock_ | BRL-CAD Release 7.8.2 |
| 21:55.45 | brlcad | okay, that's better |
| 21:56.00 | clock_ | Should I reinstall to 7.8.4? |
| 21:56.25 | brlcad | no no |
| 21:56.42 | brlcad | it's acting like you had a partial render, given the code it's in |
| 21:56.44 | clock_ | Solid modelling for strong defense haha :) |
| 21:56.56 | clock_ | Should I delete the pixfiles and try again? |
| 21:57.01 | brlcad | yeah |
| 21:57.40 | clock_ | clock@kestrel:~/creat/ronja/trunk/3d$ ./moss.rt -s 200 |
| 21:57.40 | clock_ | ./moss.rt: line 1: 13777 Segmentation fault (core dumped) rt -M $* -o moss.pix tetrax.g tetrax 2>>moss.log <moss.rtanim |
| 21:57.43 | clock_ | Anyway |
| 21:57.58 | brlcad | same frame? |
| 21:58.02 | clock_ | This time it created only moss.pix and moss.pix.1 |
| 21:58.14 | clock_ | -r--r--r-- 1 clock users 120000 Jan 5 22:57 moss.pix |
| 21:58.14 | clock_ | -rw-r--r-- 1 clock users 44400 Jan 5 22:57 moss.pix.1 |
| 21:58.22 | clock_ | Seems to produce a runt file of the same size |
| 21:58.38 | clock_ | Maybe when I run it many times I get a complete animation with ocassional bad pixels :) |
| 21:59.16 | brlcad | curious, you have an smp machine? |
| 21:59.21 | clock_ | no |
| 21:59.29 | clock_ | Pentium M 1.5GHz notebook |
| 22:00.18 | brlcad | delete the pix files again and add the -B flag to rt ... run it twice if it crashes and see if it crashes on the same image frame both times |
| 22:00.51 | clock_ | I'm going to sleep now |
| 22:00.53 | clock_ | good night |
| 22:01.42 | brlcad | hrm k |
| 22:01.56 | brlcad | if you can get a chance, I'd be interested in getting those files to test here |
| 22:03.03 | clock_ | yes I can send them |
| 22:03.42 | b0ef | nearly got a heart stop when I saw NURBS on the commit list;) |
| 22:04.16 | brlcad | heh |
| 22:04.41 | b0ef | you working on exposing the NURBS interface in brlcad? |
| 22:07.47 | b0ef | for manipulating NURBS.. |
| 22:11.05 | brlcad | b0ef: couple different efforts |
| 22:11.32 | brlcad | one being just to simply improve the geometry engine's nurbs support |
| 22:11.47 | brlcad | the existing isn't exposed because it has "issues" |
| 22:12.06 | brlcad | so fixing/improving it is the first step |
| 22:12.54 | brlcad | that also then in turn supports geometry conversion, which is what is driving this particular effort -- being able to seamlessly bring in models from pro/e, unigraphics, rhino, etc without doing a tessellation |
| 22:13.25 | brlcad | also fundamentally needed by the step converter, which will likely be the second major effort |
| 22:14.11 | b0ef | just wondering; is the reverse also be part of that same effort? (mesh to NURBS) |
| 22:14.18 | brlcad | THEN on to the modeling interface facilities (which could happen in parallel with the step converter work, but that depends on involvement from others) |
| 22:14.54 | brlcad | yikes, generate a smoothed nurbs surface off of some mesh? |
| 22:15.12 | b0ef | well, a NURBS surface doesn't have to be smooth |
| 22:15.17 | b0ef | it can be anything;) |
| 22:15.18 | brlcad | true |
| 22:15.22 | b0ef | that's the beauty of it;) |
| 22:15.23 | dtidrow_work | http://www.theregister.co.uk/2007/01/04/420mph_cavalier/ - wonder where he hid the JATO bottles ;-) |
| 22:15.24 | brlcad | but then what'd be the point? |
| 22:16.00 | b0ef | well, when using existing models; having the capability to turn them into parametric surfaces is very handy |
| 22:16.01 | Maloeran | Tsk, the "beauty" of NURBS are a pain to raytrace efficiently :) |
| 22:16.19 | Maloeran | are->is |
| 22:16.39 | b0ef | NURBS should be even more easy than a mesh, from my understanding |
| 22:16.58 | b0ef | well, yeah, efficiently is another thing, I guess |
| 22:17.10 | brlcad | b0ef: ah, you mean from a modelling perspective, for deformations, etc |
| 22:17.21 | b0ef | brlcad: yeah |
| 22:18.04 | brlcad | i'll keep it in mind, but that's kind of obscure .. we don't have direct mesh or nurbs editing now, so talking about converting from one or the other without the editing is a bit premature ;) |
| 22:18.12 | b0ef | well, the thing I'm after doesn't even require the non uniform and rational part, really |
| 22:18.32 | b0ef | at first;) |
| 22:19.05 | b0ef | of course, trimming and such in the future would require that |
| 22:19.10 | brlcad | doing a straight up conversion would be a pretty simple tool for someone to write -- but you still wouldn't have the editing capacity yet ;) |
| 22:19.41 | b0ef | I'm on my way to learn the mathematics, but some years are expected, so I can't help, yet;) |
| 22:20.30 | brlcad | you're welcome to jump into the code as part of your learning ;) |
| 22:20.37 | b0ef | anyways, I've found offset tool in inkscape |
| 22:21.11 | b0ef | yeah, I am pursuing this, but I'm just taking linear algebra at the time |
| 22:21.36 | b0ef | ..so I've made my surfaces in inkscape |
| 22:22.08 | b0ef | the problem now is stitching them together |
| 22:22.51 | b0ef | well, make them compatible |
| 22:23.03 | b0ef | make one surface out of them all |
| 22:24.59 | b0ef | I also found out I need to look at projection |
| 22:25.48 | b0ef | damn, NURBS are sexy;) |
| 22:32.36 | brlcad | ever used rhino? |
| 22:32.39 | brlcad | er, rhino3d |
| 22:32.52 | b0ef | no |
| 22:33.01 | brlcad | they are pretty much the kings of nurbs modeling |
| 22:33.12 | b0ef | yeah, know, but I don't use proprietary software |
| 22:34.18 | b0ef | ;) |
| 22:36.13 | brlcad | b0ef: i only mentioned as a lead for perspective -- their nurbs modeling interface is pretty darn sexy, the standard most of the industry has used to live up to |
| 22:36.38 | b0ef | brlcad: yeah, believe me, I know about it;) |
| 22:36.47 | brlcad | some pretty tricky math behind what they have working on the user interfae side |
| 22:36.52 | b0ef | I've skimmed the surface of the earth for NURBS;) |
| 22:37.27 | brlcad | ah, so you've *heard* of rhino.. just not used it |
| 22:37.58 | b0ef | yeah, read on it |
| 22:38.57 | b0ef | I used maya, before I went fanatic, though |
| 22:39.33 | Maloeran | Are you mostly a modeller, b0ef, or a programmer as well? |
| 22:40.03 | b0ef | well, I'm mostly a programmer, but have this childhood dream of recreating where I grew up |
| 22:40.18 | b0ef | s/where/the place where/ |
| 22:40.24 | Maloeran | :) Nice. |
| 22:40.41 | b0ef | ;), yeah, been working on it for many many years |
| 22:41.04 | b0ef | off and on, of course |
| 22:41.15 | brlcad | did you happen to grow up in the Cornell box? |
| 22:41.28 | brlcad | or inside a tank |
| 22:41.35 | brlcad | if so, I might be able to heelp |
| 22:42.04 | b0ef | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/B%C3%B8nestoppen |
| 22:42.29 | b0ef | ;) |
| 22:43.41 | b0ef | indeed |
| 22:44.04 | brlcad | hmm, let's see .. there's a procedural vegetation generator in brl-cad, grass and cloud shaders, texture and wood shaders.. terrain .. that'll get you most of that picture ;) |
| 22:44.24 | *** join/#brlcad docelic (n=docelic@212.15.173.172) |
| 22:44.26 | b0ef | I have actually modeled the whole place |
| 22:44.41 | b0ef | many times, actually |
| 22:44.43 | Maloeran | Where's the procedural vegetation generator? I thought Justin had used some weird Blender plugin |
| 22:44.53 | brlcad | Maloeran: he had, but there's one in there too |
| 22:44.54 | Maloeran | Which was very broken for me, as all Blender plugins I tried |
| 22:44.58 | Maloeran | Neat |
| 22:46.33 | b0ef | here are the current svg surfaces: |
| 22:46.39 | b0ef | http://www.esben-stien.name/scoutinkscape-0.0.9.svg |
| 22:46.44 | b0ef | well, nearly the current |
| 22:47.18 | b0ef | hmm, only some parts of it show up in my browser, but inkscape should show it right |
| 22:47.44 | b0ef | I have modeled it many times, but I need a parametric model of it |
| 22:48.33 | Maloeran | May I ask why you need it made of NURBS specifically? |
| 22:48.47 | brlcad | Maloeran: it's nothing fancy -- it was a quick 1-week effort to procedurally create random trees and bushes quickly .. end result was pretty decent actually, but there are a ton of parameters to feed (branching rates, branch min/maxes, radii, tapering rates, etc) |
| 22:48.57 | brlcad | maybe 2 weeks, i forget |
| 22:49.36 | b0ef | Maloeran: well, it doesn't work to work with surfaces and curves in mesh modeling for something like this |
| 22:49.42 | brlcad | still, it has some nice aspects like no self-intersections, branches grow towards light visibility, etc |
| 22:50.29 | Maloeran | Sounds good, brlcad, I had pondered about writing something like that |
| 22:50.57 | Maloeran | Where is it in the source? |
| 22:51.00 | brlcad | src/proc-db if you want to poke -- it's in there somewhere, vegitation iirc |
| 22:51.08 | Maloeran | Thanks. |
| 22:52.12 | b0ef | I have very little interest in shaders and such, really; I just want to model it and synthesise the textures |
| 22:52.35 | b0ef | I'm looking into fluxus to synthesise textures |
| 22:52.55 | Maloeran | Shaders? As long as it's raytraced, you should just need material properties and launch the process |
| 22:53.48 | b0ef | yeah, but I don't want to use bitmaps |
| 22:53.56 | b0ef | as in, static textures |
| 22:54.24 | b0ef | well, that's a long way from now, anyways |
| 23:47.11 | ``Erik | boner-stoppin'? |
