| 01:38.32 | brlcad | AchiestDragon: mged doesn't display anything by default when you load a file |
| 01:38.56 | AchiestDragon | k, how do you get it to |
| 01:39.05 | brlcad | contrary to other modelers, brl-cad's .g files may actually contain an arbitrary number of objects/parts/assemblies/etc |
| 01:39.37 | brlcad | the 'tops' command will give you the starting list of top-level geometry objects in a geometry database |
| 01:39.45 | brlcad | or the Misc->Geometry Browser too |
| 01:39.48 | brlcad | on the menu |
| 01:41.26 | brlcad | most 'real' brl-cad .g files take a relatively long time to load sometimes too if they are highly detailed (models that would grind pro-E to a halt), so it's up to the modeler to decide when they want to view geometry |
| 01:44.17 | brlcad | feature requests are very much appreciated.. also interested what you did to fix the libtermio.so.19 problem too. |
| 01:45.07 | AchiestDragon | the fix for the lib was to unpack the zip in /usr not /home/dave/usr |
| 01:45.54 | brlcad | ahh |
| 01:46.25 | AchiestDragon | biggest feature request at moment would be to reduce the number of open windows , its hard hunting for the right one when there all stacked |
| 01:46.29 | brlcad | you could have set your LD_LIBRARY_PATH too |
| 01:47.12 | brlcad | what about going full-screen by default, would that help? |
| 01:48.47 | AchiestDragon | maybe , it would have to have a split window system so that it say had 3 or 4 lines for the command and the rest for graphics space |
| 01:49.21 | AchiestDragon | guess its a long job redesigning the whole gui |
| 01:49.32 | brlcad | it is :) |
| 01:49.46 | brlcad | several years have gone into the new modeler's design already |
| 01:51.01 | AchiestDragon | yes , the program seems exelent , its the user interface and ease of use ( for those that like point and click ) that seems to be a letdown |
| 01:51.08 | brlcad | mged does have a mode where it will combine the command and graphics window into one, it's just not easily end-user accessible right now |
| 01:51.50 | brlcad | yeah, the interface of mged has always been minimal priority, more focus on validity of results, performance, flexibility, extensibility, etc |
| 01:52.04 | brlcad | it's a shame too, since that's the sole metric for many ;) |
| 01:52.12 | brlcad | but understandable |
| 01:52.18 | AchiestDragon | yes |
| 01:52.43 | brlcad | there's no reason (other than money/time) for a difficult interface |
| 01:53.27 | brlcad | course what's difficult for one might not be for others, the expert brl-cad modelers are rather efficient at using it as is (mostly sans mouse) |
| 01:55.19 | AchiestDragon | :) its fine once you get used to programs and use them every day , where the big corps offer training , but for open source its a case of download install and go , or not , as the case may be |
| 01:56.28 | brlcad | yeah |
| 01:57.10 | brlcad | fortunately, there are decent training materials available that were developed to teach the basics |
| 01:57.35 | brlcad | a rare find for most open source projects (decent documentation) for all but the most mature/active |
| 01:57.49 | brlcad | you did see the tutorial series on the website I hope? |
| 01:57.56 | AchiestDragon | yes |
| 01:58.55 | AchiestDragon | found another bug ,, need to check see if its already reported |
| 01:59.25 | AchiestDragon | program exits if you try creating and extrude... |
| 01:59.53 | brlcad | ahh, that's a very recent bug I just noticed last week myself |
| 02:07.17 | *** join/#brlcad DTRemenak (n=DTRemena@DHCP-170-143.caltech.edu) |
| 02:14.36 | AchiestDragon | it locked up on me earlyer , had to hit the big red restart button ,was doing a raytrace and had cpu usage saying 120% and no responce from mouse or keyboard |
| 02:23.17 | brlcad | woah |
| 02:28.12 | brlcad | if you can find steps to repeat that one, that'd be rather high priority |
| 02:28.45 | brlcad | regardless, feel free to report that bug and/or any others to the bug tracker |
| 02:30.54 | AchiestDragon | hope not :), had it set to photon mapping and changed the global photons to someting rather high |
| 02:32.21 | AchiestDragon | but i think it was a ram limit , theres only 512mb ram on here and 2Gb swap allocated , and it looked like it was hitting the upper limit of the swap space also |
| 02:35.15 | AchiestDragon | there is another , in the preferences , font settings ,font tools the list of fonts in each "famaly" is longer than will display on the screen |
| 02:38.00 | brlcad | OOooh.. hehe photon mapping.. :) |
| 02:38.10 | AchiestDragon | if i set the font size to 8 or below i get more in each list but still miss quite a few |
| 02:56.27 | AchiestDragon | i know theres converters from autocad dxf with it but what about blender and .pov file types |
| 02:57.09 | brlcad | they do not yet exist, though they are on the wish/todo list |
| 03:13.32 | EricWilhelm | mine too |
| 03:25.44 | brlcad | soon as I finish up with the .bzw converter, I'll be moving on to one of those two .. |
| 03:27.21 | AchiestDragon | kool |
| 03:29.33 | AchiestDragon | its 4:30 am here , time for bed for me , will play arround with it some more tomorow , try to get used to it some more then |
| 03:35.09 | brlcad | thanks for the feedbacks |
| 03:35.11 | brlcad | and reports |
| 03:59.21 | *** join/#brlcad Semhirage (i=semhirag@unaffiliated/semhirage) |
| 04:14.54 | *** join/#brlcad Semhirage (i=semhirag@unaffiliated/semhirage) |
| 11:03.16 | AchiestDragon | hmm , having fun , been trying to import dxf files into brlcad , ok so seem to endup with a mess , ok so it looks to be a problem with blender that i'm exporting them to dxf from , as it shows the same mess in autocad |
| 11:26.38 | *** join/#brlcad cad462 (n=ca5e43fe@bz.bzflag.bz) |
| 12:16.01 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 07bobWinPort * 10brlcad/include/ (png.h pngconf.h): Updates for libpng 1.2.8 |
| 12:18.35 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 07bobWinPort * 10brlcad/src/other/tkimg/zlibtcl/ (zlibtcl.c zlibtcl.h zlibtclStubLib.c): Get zlibtcl's package name from ZLIBTCL_PACKAGE_NAME |
| 12:20.34 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 07bobWinPort * 10brlcad/src/other/tkimg/pngtcl/ (pngtcl.h pngtcl.c pngtclStubLib.c): Get pngtcl's package name from PNGTCL_PACKAGE_NAME |
| 12:35.56 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 07bobWinPort * 10brlcad/src/other/tkimg/pngtcl/pngtcl.c: Not exporting Png_Init |
| 12:36.59 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 07bobWinPort * 10brlcad/src/other/tkimg/zlibtcl/zlibtcl.c: Not exporting Z_Init |
| 12:39.29 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 07bobWinPort * 10brlcad/src/other/tkimg/png/init.c: Not exporting Tkimgpng_Init |
| 12:42.33 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 07bobWinPort * 10brlcad/src/other/tkimg/png/png.c: Minor mod to appease compiler |
| 12:47.02 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 07bobWinPort * 10brlcad/src/other/tkimg/base/tkimgStubLib.c: Use TKIMG_PACKAGE_NAME |
| 12:49.55 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 07bobWinPort * 10brlcad/src/other/tkimg/base/tkimg.c: Provide extern declarations for a few embedded packages |
| 12:55.55 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 07bobWinPort * 10brlcad/src/other/libpng/png.h: Exporting png_read_destroy and png_write_destroy (tkimg needs them) |
| 13:01.22 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 07bobWinPort * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/archer/Archer.tcl: Add haveSdb to Archer namespace; move code that sets haveSdb to LoadArcherLibs |
| 13:07.58 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 07bobWinPort * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/archer/LoadArcherLibs.tcl: Add code to set haveSdb; No longer need to load libpng and tkimgpng |
| 13:12.35 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 07bobWinPort * 10brlcad/include/config_win.h: Change INSTALL_DIRECTORY |
| 13:17.57 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 07bobWinPort * 10brlcad/misc/win32-msvc7/ (4 files in 4 dirs): Mods to reflect the move of zlib/tcl and libpng/tcl stuff to tkimg |
| 13:27.25 | *** join/#brlcad DTRemenak (n=DTRemena@DHCP-170-143.caltech.edu) |
| 13:28.26 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 07bobWinPort * 10brlcad/misc/win32-msvc7/fast42g/.cvsignore: Initial check-in |
| 15:18.46 | *** join/#brlcad cad105 (n=8f3494d3@bz.bzflag.bz) |
| 15:18.55 | cad105 | hi ya |
| 15:20.45 | BRLcad_firstday | this is my first day using brlcad |
| 16:49.58 | *** join/#brlcad pra5ad (n=prasad@pool-151-196-29-221.balt.east.verizon.net) |
| 17:50.10 | *** join/#brlcad knightstalker (n=knightst@200.226.146.230) |
| 17:52.29 | knightstalker | hello; |
| 17:52.29 | knightstalker | I'm new to brlcad. I'm running linux, but I'm thinking about using it in the university I work, and I have a question google couldn't answer me: are there any compiled package of brlcad for windows, or, is there a way to compile brlcad under windows? I found a precompiled package of a beta release of the 6.x series, but it asks me for a serial. Thanks |
| 17:56.03 | Maloeran | It can be compiled on windows, there are Makefiles ( or the MSVC equivalent ) for this purpose |
| 17:57.10 | brlcad | knightstalker: the windows release is imminent |
| 17:57.15 | brlcad | ~spell imminent |
| 17:57.25 | knightstalker | so, with a port of GNU make for windows I can do the job of compilation? I've never done something like that :P |
| 17:58.25 | brlcad | knightstalker: you can use cygwin and get a full functioning build using the existing build |
| 17:58.46 | brlcad | or.. you can use the msvc files in the BobWinPort branch |
| 17:58.55 | brlcad | and build everything using Studio |
| 17:59.28 | knightstalker | ack. I've heard of cygwin before, but I've never tried it.... |
| 17:59.29 | knightstalker | well, I'll try that, all I need is something to show up to the boss |
| 17:59.39 | brlcad | or.. you can ask for the alpha release zip if you want to alpha test :) |
| 17:59.49 | knightstalker | I'll take a look at this |
| 17:59.49 | knightstalker | thank you guys |
| 17:59.57 | knightstalker | hey, you do have it? |
| 18:00.02 | brlcad | yup |
| 18:00.08 | knightstalker | woa, please |
| 18:00.12 | brlcad | :) |
| 18:00.20 | knightstalker | "can I have the alpha zip release?" |
| 18:00.21 | knightstalker | :P |
| 18:00.35 | brlcad | it's not been tested much, but it should work |
| 18:03.42 | knightstalker | but I'm afraid I can't download it right now |
| 18:04.20 | knightstalker | I'm on a dial-up connection now, and if I download it in this computer I won't be able to take it to home |
| 18:04.33 | brlcad | okay |
| 18:04.47 | brlcad | it's about 14M fwiw |
| 18:05.02 | knightstalker | it would be too much to ask to put it on a server, like sourceforge |
| 18:05.13 | knightstalker | so, I'll come back later |
| 18:05.37 | brlcad | i'm uploading it to one of our mirrors now |
| 18:05.48 | brlcad | but it's not going to go up on sf.net until it's been tested some more |
| 18:05.52 | knightstalker | hey, thanks man |
| 18:06.05 | knightstalker | please, tell me what's the address |
| 18:06.25 | knightstalker | so I'd proud of downloading it and testing it for you |
| 18:06.25 | brlcad | one sec |
| 18:06.28 | knightstalker | :P |
| 18:10.16 | brlcad | it'll be at http://ftp.brlcad.org/private/BRL-CAD_win32_20050916.zip in about a minute, I'll leave it up there until a new build replaces it |
| 18:10.27 | knightstalker | woa; ok |
| 18:10.32 | knightstalker | thank you |
| 18:10.34 | knightstalker | so much |
| 18:10.52 | brlcad | just please report back any issues you run into |
| 18:11.08 | knightstalker | I'll download it, and show to the guys there |
| 18:11.09 | knightstalker | ok, I'll do my best |
| 18:11.17 | knightstalker | thanks again |
| 18:13.43 | brlcad | no problem |
| 18:14.01 | knightstalker | oops, |
| 18:14.18 | knightstalker | it returns a 550 error: no such file or directory |
| 18:14.25 | brlcad | "about a minute" |
| 18:14.31 | brlcad | it's there now |
| 18:14.32 | knightstalker | ok |
| 18:14.43 | brlcad | not ftp |
| 18:14.53 | knightstalker | ack, http |
| 18:15.05 | brlcad | you have to type the http:// prefix |
| 18:15.16 | knightstalker | ok |
| 18:15.37 | brlcad | I presume you've found the manuals on the website? |
| 18:15.53 | knightstalker | yeah |
| 18:16.06 | knightstalker | I've read some, but not all |
| 18:16.19 | brlcad | they are pretty much required reading for unfamiliar users ;) |
| 18:16.38 | knightstalker | I was more intersted in the one about conversion between files |
| 18:16.38 | brlcad | mged is not really 'discoverable' like it should be |
| 18:17.35 | knightstalker | yeah, but I like it, he is somehow cool, the command-line interface where you type the commands and the visual window where things appear |
| 18:18.22 | knightstalker | perhaps someday it'll have an full OpenGL interface, such as the one Blender have |
| 18:19.14 | knightstalker | say, that isn't a bad idea? something more... interactive |
| 18:19.33 | brlcad | it's under development |
| 18:19.46 | brlcad | there's a soon to be released tool that does the shaded displays |
| 18:20.14 | brlcad | and a full replacement modeler under development that will fully replace mged but that's at least a year out |
| 18:20.21 | knightstalker | woa... I really need to read some changelogs and to go down into the source tree lol |
| 18:20.32 | brlcad | the soon to be released tool will probably be ready in a month or two |
| 18:20.39 | brlcad | please do ;) |
| 18:20.49 | brlcad | I'm always open to new developers |
| 18:21.21 | brlcad | the package is broad-scoping enough for pretty much any skill set ;) |
| 18:21.28 | knightstalker | I'd like to contribute with something, but I'm not with the time to do it |
| 18:21.32 | knightstalker | I'm trying a degree in one university, and I work in another one |
| 18:22.05 | knightstalker | perhaps at the end of the year, when I'll be off the two |
| 18:22.07 | AchiestDragon | well you got a willing beta tester for the new modeler |
| 18:22.42 | knightstalker | sure thing, I'd like to see it and do some stuff too |
| 18:23.46 | knightstalker | well, g2g guys |
| 18:23.50 | knightstalker | c ya later |
| 18:23.55 | knightstalker | and, thanks again |
| 18:23.59 | knightstalker | Ciao |
| 18:28.39 | AchiestDragon | shame im no good at C or C++ |
| 18:32.39 | archivist_3 | well download the source, read and learn |
| 18:36.24 | brlcad | AchiestDragon: damn shame |
| 18:36.28 | AchiestDragon | its years since i did any C , i gave up on C++ |
| 18:37.03 | brlcad | you know tcl? sh? perl? html? english? I'm sure there's a lang that we could find where help is needed :) |
| 18:37.29 | AchiestDragon | python |
| 18:38.40 | brlcad | that works ;) |
| 18:39.45 | AchiestDragon | assembler on z80, 68000, amd29000 , pdp11 ,pic microcontrlers , and others but not iX86 if i can help it |
| 18:41.13 | AchiestDragon | i can read and follow C and C++ (mostly) but know i would have problems writing code |
| 18:43.53 | brlcad | have you used simh? |
| 18:44.09 | AchiestDragon | ive been trying to learn qt3 but since kde is moving to qt4 for kde 4 its all change , got good at designing frontends for gui's but getting the programs to do someting when i press a button is a diferent matter |
| 18:44.57 | AchiestDragon | no to simh |
| 18:45.42 | brlcad | it's a historic computing simulation virtual machine framework |
| 18:45.56 | brlcad | you can run a vax, pdp11, etc |
| 18:46.21 | brlcad | i compiled it up a few years ago, ran the vax simulator, installed bsd, compiled brl-cad on it .. fun :) |
| 18:46.25 | AchiestDragon | used stuff similar to it |
| 18:47.29 | AchiestDragon | gave my pdp11/03 and pdp11/23 to a musem about 8 years ago now |
| 18:47.30 | brlcad | i'd love to get the simulator time-synced so that we can recompute the BRL-CAD Benchmarks again, get a VGR performance metric of '1' |
| 18:47.45 | brlcad | http://simh.trailing-edge.com/ |
| 18:48.47 | AchiestDragon | brb |
| 20:58.41 | AchiestDragon | back |
| 21:01.26 | AchiestDragon | i used to run povray on a old xt an 8086 with 8087 co proc 24hrs for a 640*480 res output was common on complex images , :) would be a few seconds on current machines for the same res |
| 21:02.55 | Maloeran | With the amount of ram these boxes had, it couldn't have been too complex :) |
| 21:03.44 | AchiestDragon | well a complex image then was 8 interwoven transperent torus's |
| 21:04.29 | brlcad | heh |
| 21:05.14 | brlcad | the brl-cad benchmark images used to take about week to render all of them on the vax 11/780 |
| 21:05.41 | brlcad | (5 512x512 images back then) |
| 21:06.00 | Maloeran | The pre-Justin ray-tracer is quite slow though |
| 21:06.14 | AchiestDragon | yes some would , but 24 hrs was the maximum i would run , needed to use the machine for other things |
| 21:07.32 | AchiestDragon | but you could stop it tracing , and restart it later , so over night was the time it got , |
| 21:09.48 | AchiestDragon | btw i have only come across 1 3d editor that i liked , but unfortunatly its not got full ray trace options and is limited to be a addition to a pcb package for doing board visulisation |
| 21:11.23 | archivist_3 | which pcb package? |
| 21:11.29 | brlcad | Maloeran: i'd be very interested in seeing a comparison of the two that produces pixel-identical results |
| 21:11.50 | AchiestDragon | blender has alot of good features , but a intreface so bad that it takes you longer to remeber what mode you need to be in for the key to work |
| 21:11.55 | *** join/#brlcad docelic (i=docelic@ri01-221.dialin.iskon.hr) |
| 21:12.17 | Maloeran | I was refering to the brlcad's ray-tracer before Justin's, not mine there, if it wasn't clear |
| 21:12.35 | brlcad | if you simplify the problem, of course it's going to run faster -- having it outperform on equivalent inputs will the be the real interesting test to me |
| 21:12.38 | AchiestDragon | autotrax , its got a package bundled called active3d, its a doddle to use |
| 21:12.40 | brlcad | yeah, I mean that too |
| 21:13.28 | docelic | Good evening gentlemen |
| 21:13.41 | docelic | Folks, do you know the exact name of a project similar to Grass (that's what I remember first associating it with), but it's primary use was for water & depth, and was named something like SeaCad or SeaDac or something like that.. I searched for months and I wasnt able to locate it again.. |
| 21:14.33 | brlcad | Maloeran: it should still outperform (both yours or his), but whether it's incredibly faster when it's doing equivalent work is unproven yet |
| 21:15.26 | Maloeran | It's certain that having a wider range of primitives than triangles complexify the tracing task |
| 21:15.38 | brlcad | triangles are something the brl-cad does not deal with well at all, and something that has historically not been developed, so comparing an rt-raytraced BoT model to that in adrt is not exactly apples to apples |
| 21:19.06 | AchiestDragon | triangles are on of the reasons that blender dosent do a good job , and that meshes and sphears in it never seem to have have true curves |
| 21:19.53 | brlcad | i'm a bit tempted to take a traditional csg model and incrementally facetize the heck out of it, comparing the raytrace results of rt to your tracer to see just what level of facetization is required to get the same results |
| 21:20.00 | brlcad | Maloeran: you have phong implemented? |
| 21:20.33 | Maloeran | Sure |
| 21:20.39 | brlcad | cool |
| 21:20.57 | brlcad | maybe at some point down the road |
| 21:22.01 | Maloeran | This should be interesting. Performance isn't really related to the global triangle count, but to the spatial complexity in the vicinity of the rays |
| 21:24.28 | brlcad | yeah, hence just a "traditional csg model" .. i can imagine some pathalogically bad cases where a triangle-only tracer would just crumple to get pixel-accurate results, sphere flake for example or something with higher curvature |
| 21:24.57 | brlcad | and then there's the memory/disk tradeoff |
| 21:37.02 | AchiestDragon | grr im raytracing the demo db (m35.g) with photon mapping and forgot to note the start time |
| 21:38.00 | AchiestDragon | 10:34 or 10:35 but can't remember witch |
| 21:39.16 | AchiestDragon | to 10:40 so about 5 mins not bad realy |
| 21:55.25 | brlcad | heh, the photon mapping is pretty slow :) |
| 21:56.20 | brlcad | but 5 min isn't "too" bad for a pseudo gloabal illum render |
| 21:59.41 | pra5ad | sean, who at work is a custom PC builder person? |
| 21:59.58 | pra5ad | i know most of u are macphiles |
| 22:11.45 | AchiestDragon | no i use pc's |
| 22:16.33 | AchiestDragon | theres a number of ways to optimize rendering , but some can take more effort than thay gain in effectivness , it can depend verry much in the sceen beeing rendered |
| 22:17.30 | AchiestDragon | for animation though theres a number of diferent ways to optimise that can be verry effective |
| 22:17.52 | *** join/#brlcad docelic (i=docelic@ri01-221.dialin.iskon.hr) |
| 22:20.57 | AchiestDragon | hmmm just debating if its crashed ,, i got the message Irradience Cache Progress :100% about 10 mins ago , and the cpu usage is still close to 100% and still wating for it to finish |
| 22:37.44 | *** join/#brlcad Obscene_CNN (n=DiscoBan@66.15.214.167) |
| 22:46.11 | brlcad | pra5ad: just cause I prefer the simplicity of a mac doesn't mean I haven't built my fair share of boxes from scratch over the years |
| 22:46.38 | brlcad | I just value my time way more than the 'savings' |
| 22:47.08 | brlcad | anyways.. half the people in the building are :P |
| 22:48.40 | brlcad | AchiestDragon: I doubt it's stuck .. the only bug I know of right now that causes a crash is using the cache file |
| 22:59.43 | AchiestDragon | too late stoped it anyway |
| 23:05.13 | AchiestDragon | started it again |
| 23:05.30 | brlcad | how many photons? |
| 23:10.49 | AchiestDragon | 32768 |
| 23:24.19 | AchiestDragon | ok maybe , i closed the app , killed the rt prog then restarted it its taken 20 mins so far to get 25% |
| 23:30.04 | AchiestDragon | time for a coffee i think |
| 23:38.09 | *** join/#brlcad tegtmeye (n=tegtmeye@pool-70-22-10-98.balt.east.verizon.net) |
| 23:40.53 | AchiestDragon | hmm and problems with the win32 version ,,, rt can't connect to fb server on host "localhost", port "5561" |
| 23:43.57 | AchiestDragon | was only doing a basic full render on the windows box |
| 23:51.14 | AchiestDragon | :) now archer looks kool |
| 23:52.11 | AchiestDragon | brlcad: is archer also avalable for the linux version ??? |
| 23:55.34 | brlcad | AchiestDragon: what do you mean? |
| 23:55.40 | brlcad | archer is platform agnostic |
| 23:56.11 | brlcad | a release hasn't been made yet that includes archer .. it's only recently starting to get merged in to cvs |
| 23:56.49 | AchiestDragon | thinks i need to update to the cvs version |
| 23:57.04 | brlcad | archer's not on head yet :) |
| 23:57.33 | brlcad | it's all in a branch, if you want to take a peek -- all very untested and integrated so far :) |
| 23:57.55 | brlcad | but if you're interested, it's in the BobWinPort branch |
| 23:59.17 | AchiestDragon | i downloaded the win port version from the link you gave earlyer today , thats where i found it |