irclog2html for blob on 2002.06.19

04:39:47Russanyone who has amd flash and jtag, bang on that if you would
08:52:47mmattenmorning
09:31:34Fareok, I have the *proof* that some DMA activity happens, thanks to md5chk
09:56:48Farethanks to DAC, I could locate the DMA buffer at 0xc005c080
09:57:28Fareand it looks like it is USB
10:12:24Fareand the length of the DMA buffer seems to be 4 bytes (!)
11:50:35seletzhi *
11:51:40seletzRuss: are you here?
11:55:42hugendublhi all!
11:56:22seletzhugendubl: russ is not here as it seems. So no amd flash answers today :(
11:56:44seletzhugendubl: have a fax in your office? I could fax you the offer from tecnotron.
11:58:29seletzhugendubl: ping ....
12:02:32hugendublsorry. Yes...
12:02:35hugendubl?
12:02:47seletzk
12:03:34hugendublnick hugendubl_afk
12:03:42seletz:)
12:12:46Fareif any sf.net blob maintainer is here, you can delete the old version of my patch
12:13:42Fareis any blob expert in here?
12:23:09seletzyup
12:23:26seletzFare: have you posted it to sf.net?
12:23:37seletzchecks out
12:24:56seletzFare: patch nr 570014 to delete, ok?
12:27:32Fareseletz: don't delete the patch
12:27:37Faredelete the older file attachment
12:27:38seletz:)
12:27:57Faredarn -- shouldn't have given both the same name
12:28:10Farebut if you delete the wrong one, then delete both and I'll resubmit
12:28:19seletzFare: ok, the patch on sf.net is ok, then?
12:28:23Fareyou can check by size
12:28:29FareI attached a new file
12:28:32Farethe old one is ba
12:28:34Farebad
12:28:37Farethe new one is ok
12:29:03seletzhmm.
12:29:38Farethe right one has size 37772
12:29:44seletzok, i delete both because i cant differ them (the delete combo box does not show the file size)
12:29:50Faredelete the one below
12:30:16Farethe listing further down gives files in newer-to-older order
12:30:26seletzk
12:30:30seletzdone
12:30:42Fare(when I submitted, I clicked on "delete" for the old one, but I got a "permission denied")
12:31:00seletzdoh
12:31:19seletzok, should be ok now. Can you double check, please?
12:31:32Farethe changelog says you deleted the right one
12:31:41seletzFare: is it to be integrated?
12:31:54seletzFare: or do you work on it?
12:32:38FareI downloaded it - it's ok
12:32:43Fareit is to be integrated
12:33:10seletzFare: well, ok. I'll take a look and integrate it as time allows. (a week at max).
12:33:35FareI still have to fix an issue, though: some DMA device (I think) is constantly modifying word at 0xc005c080
12:34:07FareAre you familiar with the SA1100 ?
12:34:14Farewhat device could that be?
12:34:28Fare(Or could it be a bug in the RAM chip?)
12:34:38seletzuse diag to check
12:34:42Fare(doesn't look like a typical RAM bug - plus WinCE runs fine)
12:34:45seletzit has a memchk routine
12:34:59FareI *know* the value at that place changes constantly
12:35:14Fareevery time I peek there, it's different, but < 65536
12:35:14seletzhmm
12:35:24Fareusing md5chk, I could locate the place
12:35:36Fareno other word seems to change that way -- not in the first 1MB, at least
12:35:49Fare(and I have no problem anywhere else yet)
12:36:01seletzhave had a look at your LCCR dma registers?
12:36:06Fareit took me quite a while to understand what was going on
12:36:08FareLCCR ?
12:36:12Fareno
12:36:13seletzLCD
12:36:25seletzthe only thing i know of using DMA
12:36:37Farethe LCD framebuffer is mapped at 0xc0002e00 (including 0x200 bytes for palette)
12:37:08FareI don't think the LCD uses DMA to *write* anything, only to read.
12:37:16seletzk
12:37:19seletzagreed
12:37:19Farehere, obviously, someone is *writing*
12:37:41seletzerik mentioned some serial io could also do DMA
12:37:42Fare(being mapped at 0xc0002e00 has the interesting side-effect that you can *see* the kernel getting loaded)
12:37:50seletzcool
12:37:52seletz:)
12:38:09seletzlooks weird i guess
12:38:26Fareyou can make the difference between code, data, and compressed stuff.
12:39:06Fareyou can even see the place the logo is stored :)
12:39:07seletzreminds me of core wars ....
12:39:15Fareyeah, me too
12:39:37seletzwrite a LCD kernel tracer.
12:39:47seletz(just kidding)
12:39:52Fareespecially when I saw words being written where they shouldn't be written (by blanking the screen first), during a few crashes
12:40:16Fare"hey! a core war program is invading the screen!"
12:40:24seletzhmm. actually a quite smart way to debug.
12:40:51seletzYou cant zoom in, can you?
12:40:54Farewell, first thing I did when the kernel was loaded was to try to blink the logo in-core
12:41:02Farebut the routine was never called
12:41:06Fareno, I can't
12:41:09seletz:)
12:41:21Fareproblem is: you need the 512 bytes of palette first
12:41:27Fareso you can't do that to a live program
12:41:52seletzskimming through diff
12:41:54Fareunless you make sure that you can write those 512 bytes with something you like
12:42:00Farewhich diff? mine?
12:42:04seletzFare: yup.
12:42:08Fareoh, thanks :)
12:42:38Fare(might be a nice idea: every 300kb, reserve 512 bytes for the palette)
12:44:18Fareseletz: if you delete some of my debugging stuff, it'd be nice to put it in CVS first and remove it afterwards, so there's a trace left in CVS
12:44:39seletzFare: didn't you use the dontdiff file?
12:45:06seletzFare: sorry, yes you did.
12:45:45Faredontdiff ?
12:46:16seletzFare: false alarm, dont mind :)
12:46:20FareI used cvs diff, and piped it into a script to transform it into something acceptable by patch -p0
12:46:46Farecvs diff only diffs registered files; I manually added a diff for the 4 added files
12:47:27Farethe serial console is neat - I wrote some debugging help in lisp that I could cut&paste into the blob console
12:47:42seletzugh
12:48:07Farelike, outputing the md5chk commands necessary to locate that changing memory location
12:50:02Fare(including an semi-automated dichotomy search, where I answered "yes" or "no")
12:55:36seletzFare: lots of debug code still in.
12:55:52seletzFare: and also lots of asm stuff i dont quite understand
12:56:20seletzFare: i have to test it wether or not it breaks anything
12:56:46seletzFare: did you test whether or not the other platforms still compile?
12:57:06seletzFare: pity, i havent a sa1100 board around.
12:57:37Fareno, I haven't tested on any other platform, but it should still compile
12:57:51FareI made no change that could modify other platforms, except in chain.S
12:58:01Fare(that was buggy in my previous patch, but now fixed)
12:58:08seletzFare: yup, thats it. chain.S
12:58:20Farebasically, it used to move 64KB always
12:58:28seletzFare: there are tools to compile on all platforms in tools/
12:58:31FareI changed that to move exactly the size of the rest
12:58:51Fare(as computed by rest-ld-script and stored in trampoline.S)
13:01:08seletzFare: you basically used different registers and a different copy loop
13:01:18Fareyes
13:01:24seletzFare: what was wrong with the old version?
13:01:31Fareand different initialization of the copy loop
13:01:40Fareit moved exactly 64KB
13:01:58Faredidn't look for the actual size of blob
13:02:11seletzah, ok
13:02:14seletzi understand
13:02:23FareI changed registers because it's easier to count r0-r7 than r3-r10
13:02:39seletzthis might actually solve some strange problems i have with blob
13:03:05seletzFare: my blob is quite, erm, bloated as erik would put it :)
13:03:07Fare:)
13:03:36FareI recommend you put a forth in it
13:03:36seletzFare: if i get over a certain size blob wont start anymore
13:03:47seletzrunning away in horror
13:03:47Farenow it will :)
13:04:03Farewhy horror?
13:04:13seletzFare: you mean the same stuff like on macs?
13:04:27Faremac actually took it from sun
13:04:50seletzFare: PPC OpenYetAnotherName SuperDuperBIOS
13:04:57Fareand sun uses it because they had a 10 man team failing to develop their boot prom in C, whereas a lone man in another team made it work superbly in FORTH.
13:05:03Farein his spare time.
13:05:14FareOpenBoot
13:05:34FareIEEE 1275
13:05:37seletzi never understood how to actually use it :(
13:06:01Farehttp://playground.sun.com/1275/home.html
13:06:47FareI have a 32-bit i386 forth in 12KB
13:07:16seletzchecking out
13:08:49seletzuargh
13:09:35seletzhuge
13:09:51Farewhat's huge?
13:09:58Farethe 1275 site?
13:10:02seletzya
13:10:10seletzlots of PDF
13:10:12Farewell, you're not forced to abide by 1275 so as to use FORTH
13:10:43Fareactually, lots of FORTHers think that a small roll-your-own FORTH is worth much more than a bloated ANS-compliant FORTH.
13:10:55Fare(bloated *and* misdesigned at times)
13:11:15seletzFare: so whats that FORTH language like, anyway?
13:11:35seletzand why have a own language in a bios?
13:11:41seletzor even a boot loader?
13:11:46Fareit's, together with commonlisp, the only turing-equivalent language around
13:12:00Fareforth is a dynamic language
13:12:12Fareyou can interactively debug your program
13:12:32Farecuts the compile-crash cycle to a read-eval-print cycle
13:12:57Farebetween two attempts to fix bug/add feature, you have a few seconds, not a few minutes
13:12:58seletzgive me an example
13:13:28Farewell, for instance, I could have written a small program at the prompt to locate that memory location
13:13:32Farewithout having to reboot
13:13:40Fareor recompile or anything
13:13:55FareI could develop a serial driver right there at the prompt
13:13:59Faretweak it
13:14:07Fareor change one routine which I think is buggy
13:14:17seletzhmm
13:14:20Fareor apply a bug fix on the running systm
13:14:27Fareor do various experiments
13:14:28seletzw/o a serial device you wont see an output
13:14:42Faredepends which is your primary console
13:14:48seletzk
13:14:50Fareor write a console device from the serial
13:14:54Fareif you prefer
13:15:08Fareand see it as you type it
13:15:15seletzbut all this would be limited to pre-kernel stuff
13:15:21Farehehe
13:15:28Farenot if I get it my ways :)
13:15:36seletz?
13:15:55seletzin-kernel fortzh module ? eek!
13:16:27seletzdammit 30+ deg. C.
13:16:31Fareactually, more like rewriting the kernel in lisp and forth
13:16:39seletzneeds a drink
13:16:41Farewhere are you?
13:16:43seletzaaaaaaahhhh
13:16:49seletzFare: southern germany
13:17:28FareI know there is a strong forth group in vienna, and many forth groups in germany
13:18:01Farebut I don't know enough of german geography to tell where a town is by its name, except for a few towns, most of them in the north of .de
13:18:29Farethe only towns in the south that I could name are Munich and Regensburg
13:18:41seletzFare: sorry, are you saing you want to re-write the kernel in forth??
13:19:04Faremore of it in lisp, actually
13:19:08seletzFare: 2 hrs off Munich, to the south-west. Near the lake of constance.
13:19:18seletzRavensburg
13:19:38seletzFare: but why? Another virtual machine?
13:19:50Fareever heard of genera?
13:19:54seletzno
13:19:58Farehttp://fare.tunes.org/LispM.html
13:20:14seletzchecking out
13:20:33Farethe interesting stuff is not my page, but those it points to
13:20:54Faremy page is just silly details.
13:26:30seletzFare: you spent lots of money
13:28:23Farenot more than a PIII would have cost at the time
13:28:36Fareand cheaper than an Alpha with a pirated (oh!) copy of Genera
13:29:40Farenice to see a 1991 single-user (at a time) workstation with X, NFS, an integrated debugger, and more.
13:30:20Fareand an interactive environment, integrated hypertext documentation, source for most everything, etc.
13:39:57seletzjust reading your LAK thread ...
13:44:40FareLAK ?
13:46:12FareI hesitate between 1) loading the kernel higher and not bothering or 2) trying to find which device is mapped at 0xc005c080
13:46:16Farenot today, though
14:26:26Fareseletz: so, what did you decide about the patch?
17:55:55Farehum
18:04:11Fareseletz: I have a version that cleans up the mess in main.c and moves it to jornada820.c only.
18:14:11RussI'm here
18:33:41RussFare: selectz is gone tho
18:46:15Fareoh
18:47:03FareAnyway. I won't resend a patch just for a small cleanup, unless the patch is rejected -- the overhead for the code review is not worth it
18:47:33Farebut the cleanup will be there in next patch if/when I solve the current issue with DMA from within blob rather than in the kernel.
18:49:24Fareare you familiar with SA-1100 ?
19:24:55Russ|werkya
19:29:04Russ|werkwhy not turn off the DMA transfer by turning off the appropriate register bit
19:29:48Russ|werkbecause even when you mask all interrupts, DMA transfers will still occur
19:49:32FareRuss: there remains to identify the proper register
19:49:38FareRuss: do you know which it might be?
19:50:08Russ|werkread the sa-1100 manual
19:50:20Fareyeah, that's on my TODO list.
19:50:26Faretoo bad there isn't a grep for PDF
19:50:34Farethe manual is HUGE
19:50:46prpplagueRuss|werk: you got a sec for question on framebuffer?
19:51:13Russ|werkFare: go to the udc section
19:51:20Russ|werkFare: it has a table of contents
19:51:21Fareudc section?
19:51:37Russ|werkya, its an acronym for usb client or something
19:51:39Russ|werkprpplague: ya
19:56:21prpplagueRuss|werk: i'm kinda new on the fb stuff, whats the difference in compiling fonts in the kernel and not?
19:56:51Russ|werkI don't know about the fonts
19:56:56Russ|werkI just let the kernel do its thing
19:57:24prpplagueRuss|werk: hmm so you don't compile in the low level drivers and the 8x8 and 8x16 fonts?
19:58:04Russ|werkI just go with the defaults
19:58:10prpplaguehmmmm
19:58:39prpplagueRuss|werk: thats what i did, but now it seems that the ansi escape sequence for flashing text does not work
19:58:53Farebtw, has anyone ever gotten the 6x11 font to work on anything else but a mac?
19:58:56Fareit'd be nice
19:59:25prpplagueFare: what about you? you compile in fonts on fb?
20:01:09Fareprpp: the current video drivers take special measures so it won't work but with the mac driver
20:01:27Faresad but true
20:01:48FareI will do it, but it's low on my hot list
20:41:43Faresection 11.8 of the SA-1100 mentions that the UDC can use DMA, but none of the registers described explain how DMA happens :(
20:42:15FareI guess I lost my time and should have been reading section 11.6 instead
21:06:13Fareok, grokked 11.6
21:06:19Farenow for implementation time.
21:06:22FareMy!
21:06:25Farehardware SUCKS
21:06:28Fareyet it ROCKS
21:07:51prpplagueFare: hmm, SUCKS ROCKS?
21:08:15prpplagueFare: sounds kink ick to me
21:08:23prpplagues/kink/kinda
21:22:56Farewell, it's amazing what hardware does for you. But it sucks having to write the grunt code to tame it.
21:24:22prpplagueya i'm in the same boat, try to work with a National Sh#$^h^h^h Semiconductor geodegx1 system
21:25:13prpplagueerikm: !
21:25:17prpplagueerikm: up late?
21:25:29erikmprpplague: just the guy I was looking for!
21:25:41prpplagueerikm: i didn't do it, you can't prove a thing
21:25:53erikmhah!
21:26:06erikmprpplague: nah, I have info about my flight
21:26:25erikmprpplague: I'll be flying to NY tomorrow afternoon
21:26:39prpplagueerikm: tomorrow?
21:26:53prpplagueerikm: i won;t be arriving in ottawa till tuesday the 25th
21:26:57erikmprpplague: *nod* staying a couple of days with a friend who works with IBM watson
21:27:04prpplagueerikm: ok cool
21:28:01erikmI'll be flying to ottawa at the 25th
21:28:50erikmmy flight is continental co4082 from newark, arriving at 4:50pm in ottawa
21:29:03prpplaguecopies to gedit
21:29:45prpplagueok, i don't arrive unit 5:15pm
21:29:54prpplagueaa1828
21:30:23prpplagueerikm: i double checked the hotel, we have a two room suite with 3 beds
21:31:38erikmI just bought you four bottles of beer
21:32:02prpplaguecoooool
21:34:52erikmI'll try to wear some linux related t-shirt. penguin shirt or so.
21:35:18Fareerikm: hi!
21:35:25erikmhi
21:35:42prpplagueerikm: ok cool, i'll probably be wearing a blue dress-shirt with a tux penguin logo
21:36:06Farenow that I read section 11.6 (DMA Controller) of the SA-1100 manual, I'm armed to make linux decompress at the right place
21:36:55erikmcool
21:37:43Russ|werkerikm: do you have any devices with amd flash?
21:38:02erikmRuss|werk: only the tux, but you have the same
21:38:40Russ|werkk, the old flash driver can destroy the bootloader even if you are flashing other partitions
21:38:56Russ|werkso its very important that the new one gets testest and out there asap
21:38:58Russ|werker
21:38:59Russ|werktested
21:39:11Fareit's so *slow* to work with hardware
21:39:28Fareespecially when you're isolated and halfwise reverse-engineering it.
21:39:38Fareyet I admit the SA-1100 is a very clean design.
21:39:40Russ|werkerikm: also, why is cpu-sa1110.c so much simpler than cpu-sa1100.c
21:39:50FareIt's easy to learn, because it's well designed.
21:40:17erikmRuss|werk: hmm, IIRC somebody on tuxscreen.net had exactly that problem
21:40:26Farevery much unlike the 1980 crapola that still exists in the PC world.
21:40:46Russ|werkerikm: I know
21:41:11Fareerikm: should I define registers in the jornada820.h, or should I read definitions from the linux headers?
21:41:13erikmRuss|werk: cpu-sa1100 needs some more cleanup. seletz and chris hoover cleaned up cpu-sa1110 some more
21:41:33Russ|werkFare: I'm finished up my reverse engineering of this: http://russ.dhs.org:8000/back.jpg
21:41:35BZFlagRuss|werk: do you think you found the cause of the bootloader killing?
21:41:48erikmFare: *nod* ARM design in general is very clean
21:41:51Russ|werkBZFlag: ya, the new flash driver is basically a complete rewrite
21:42:26BZFlagbut did you determine what was wrong with the old method?
21:42:38Fareerikm: shouldn't disabling of DMA be part of the standard blob procedure?
21:42:41erikmFare: what registers do you need?
21:42:58Farewell, I suppose enough to disable DMA registers
21:43:02Russ|werkI think it was putting it in the mode where it would be able to write multiple bytes at once, without doing the unlock commands again
21:43:07Russ|werkbut then not taking it out of that mode
21:43:15BZFlagahh
21:43:38erikmFare: no. blob expects to be the first program to run after reset, in which case DMA is disabled. the chainloader is a hack and might need more work
21:43:38FareDCSR{0-5}
21:43:53erikmFare: just include blob/sa1100.h and you have the register definitions
21:43:59Fareok
21:44:02prpplagueRuss|werk: you do anything with that tcsx-1 board i sent to ya?
21:44:08erikmRuss|werk: what kind of device is that?
21:44:15prpplagueRuss|werk: not that it matters, just curious
21:44:57erikmRuss|werk: (some kind of handheld, judging from the form factor)
21:44:58Russ|werkprpplague: I have a DoC for it, as well as a 30G pcmcia drive
21:45:04Russ|werkI need to get a cable for the drive though
21:45:14erikm30G pcmcia drive???
21:45:18Fareok, so I'll improve my jornada820 patch, and update it on the sf.net page
21:45:30Fare30G pcmcia drive sounds nice
21:45:43Faretoo bad I can't have BOTH it and the network card
21:45:57Farehum. is it a type 1 (thin) pcmcia card?
21:46:09Faremaybe not...
21:46:40Russ|werkerikm: the removal header does say  majordomo@lart.tudelft.nl and not majordomo@lart.tudelft.edu, right?
21:46:52erikmyes
21:47:03Russ|werkthis rob biggs is a real dumbass
21:47:13erikmtudelft.edu doesn't exist
21:48:13prpplagueRuss|werk: lol, i hope thats not how you guys talk about me when i'm not on the channe
21:48:13erikmlast time I checked, that is.... /me rechecks
21:48:19Farehum.
21:48:43FareOk. And what shall I do first thing after getting the kernel to uncompress?
21:49:18Russ|werkmtd?
21:49:34Farehow do I disable devices I don't want to debug yet, and enable devices I want to debug (console) ?
21:49:36erikmFare: take a beer?
21:49:38erikm;)
21:49:44Fareerikm: yay :)
21:49:52erikmFare: I'm sure prpplague can recommend you a nice victory beer :)
21:50:12prpplaguedid i hear someone say beer?
21:50:23Russ|werkFare: kernel config
21:51:47Farealso, which devices should I try first? I suppose serial, then lcd, then pcmcia (and with it network and IDE), then USB, then internal mouse and keyboard.
21:52:36erikmFare: serial is first, but will probably work out of the box. ram disk is nice so you can actually test if ls etc. work
21:53:16erikmFare: LCD should be easy as well, the only problem you could encounter is how to enable the backlight
21:53:48erikmFare: LCD is easy to debug: once you get a penguin at boot with the correct colors you know you did it right
21:54:25FareLCD seems pretty straightforward, but it isn't clear how the parameters map to hardware registers
21:54:43Fareideally, I should be reading the registers from the current setup and feeding them back to linux
21:55:10Fareonly it's not clear what parameter should go where...
21:55:22Fareif you know someone who can tip me, that'd be great.
21:56:10Farebecause I just don't have the data to make up the values - I *must* get them from the WinCE setup.
21:56:26Russ|werklook at the relevant portion of the sa-1100 manual, the header file, and the spec sheet for the LCD panel
21:56:57erikmFare: you don't have to know how the parameters map to the registers, the current driver calculates the hardware settings for you
21:57:10Russ|werkas well as some of the sa1100 source code
21:59:02FareRuss: I do NOT have the spec sheet for the LCD panel.
21:59:37FareI do not even know what LCD panel it is.
21:59:56Fareand I'm not proficient enough to rip the hardware apart then put it together again.
22:00:45Russ|werkah, I had to pull apart my lcd panel/ts unit to figure out who made my panel
22:00:50erikmFare: does the LCD work if you start blob?
22:01:56Russ|werkerikm: so will the new cpu-sa1100 revision just have the basic timings like cpu-sa1110?
22:02:16erikmRuss|werk: that's the plan, yes
22:02:58Russ|werkgood
22:03:17Fareerikm: it sure works
22:03:20Russ|werkI'm also working on the tuxscreen ssp bus
22:03:36Fareand since the wince fb is at 0xc0003000, I can see the kernel loading at 0xc0008000 :)
22:04:00Fareand I replaced the "led" with writing to the framebuffer.
22:04:04erikmFare: heh
22:04:13Russ|werkits using the motorola frame format, and reads work by writing a frame of zero's, and reading back simultaniously
22:04:17Russ|werkI don't want to wait around while this is happening, I just want an IRQ when its done
22:04:35erikmFare: anyway, you can let blob dump the framebuffer registers
22:04:42Farethat's the easy part
22:04:49erikmRuss|werk: you want an irq in blob?
22:04:56Russ|werkreading the docs, it looks like I can't get an IRQ by just having one byte in the receive buffer
22:04:57Farethe difficult part is to retrofit the register values into linux parameters
22:05:01Russ|werkerikm: no, this is arm-kernel
22:05:29Fare(or else, I can have a stupid #ifdef JORNADA820 to prevent modifying anything but the DBAR1)
22:05:47erikmRuss|werk: ah. I have been thinking about a way to deliver irqs to blob. should help abraham and his broken watchdog
22:07:08Farebtw, I think I convinced seletz to integrate my patch when I explained him how piggy.c and my chain.S changes could help him produce bloated blob variants and get away with it.
22:07:22Fare:)
22:07:56Russ|werkerikm: ya, I don't need the phone part of the tuxscreen to work while its in blob
22:08:09erikmhah! seletz has to be careful: I'll see him at OLS and I *will* carry a LART! :)
22:08:50Fareerikm: don't be caught at the airport checkpoint with that bomb of yours.
22:08:59Fare"open your bag, sir"
22:09:08Russ|werkerikm: did you have anything to do with woody/disks-arm/current/lart?
22:09:34erikmRuss|werk: does that exist?
22:09:35Fare"now, tell us what this electronic controller is doing in the same case as this suspect-looking shampoo"
22:09:53Russ|werkerikm: ya
22:10:07Russ|werkerikm: there is a linux.bin, a root.tar.gz, and a driver.tgz
22:10:09erikmRuss|werk: I think it's wookey's work. afaik he's debian developer
22:10:47Russ|werkcongrats to wookey then
22:10:54Fareoh, btw, for the ramdisk, should I extend piggy.c and stuff so as to have a load_ramdisk just like we have a load_kernel ?
22:11:32Russ|werknever thought about it that way...
22:23:17erikmBZFlag: when will you be arriving at OLS?
22:25:42BZFlagTuesday night. staying at the westin
22:27:53BZFlagis there a place for posting travel plans and arranging BOFs etc?
22:28:16erikmBZFlag: here is your travel plan poster board: _rmk_!
22:28:19BZFlagie: when is the blob/arm/tux/bzflag ;-) BOF at OLS?
22:28:43erikmBZFlag: don't forget the beer, or otherwise prpplague won't join :)
22:28:45BZFlagponders DLing and printing _rmk_
22:29:07_rmk_bz: unfortunately, 24/25 are the kernel summit, which starts at 9am through to 10 or 11pm, so you may not see me until OLS.
22:29:37BZFlagopen to party crashers? ;-)
22:29:45_rmk_unfortunately not
22:30:02BZFlagnot a spectator sport then. hmm.
22:30:53erikmBZFlag: bit like the selection of a new pope: white smoke == ok
22:30:56prpplagueBZFlag: you going to get to attend OLS?
22:31:01prpplagueBZFlag: cool
22:31:02_rmk_Ted Ts'o can and will probably act as a bouncer.  He's built well enough for that. 8)
22:31:53Russ|werkhey _rmk_
22:32:04_rmk_Hi Russ, you're missing out on OLS I hear.
22:33:04Russ|werkya, I don't have the funds
22:33:19Russ|werkmaybe next time
22:33:38BZFlagprpplague: yep.
22:33:52prpplagueRuss|werk: should have said something, we could have gotten you sleep in the bath tub
22:34:01erikmreally wonders if he should bring a suspicious looking LART this time
22:34:17BZFlag_rmk_: hmm. /me wonders if having met/talked to the bouncer is good or bad. ;-)
22:34:22prpplagueBZFlag: great, i'm planning to spring for a couple rounds of brew for the arm BOF
22:34:27Russ|werkmainly its the air fare
22:34:47FareI'm not made just out of (hot) air!
22:35:19prpplaguelol
22:36:00BZFlagI'm just wondering how/where everyone is getting together for the various BOF/geekfests.
22:36:16BZFlagtrying to maximize the geeking possibilities. ;-)
22:36:18FareI'm going to switzerland :)
22:36:24Faremeeting geeks there
22:36:33prpplagueBZFlag: lol, i'm torturing erikm and making him stay in the extra room
22:36:39Fareoops. Reminds me I have to contact more geeks who live there...
22:37:23erikmshudders
22:37:35prpplagueerikm: did you get stopped at the airport last time?
22:37:53erikmprpplague: no, but the last time I brought a lart was before september 11
22:38:09erikmprpplague: in december I didn't bring it on purpose
22:38:39BZFlagI'm planning to bring the laptop and a couple zauri all with 802.11 cards.
22:38:49BZFlagnot planning on packing any tuxscreens
22:38:51prpplagueBZFlag: cool
22:39:03erikmprpplague: otoh: they never really cared about a lart before that
22:39:45prpplagueerikm: i went to barbados right after 9/11 and had a scsi raid cabinet, it took me 7 hours to get through security in dallas
22:39:46erikmprpplague: and in december they were only interested in my laptop, which I had to put separately through the scanner
22:41:24prpplagueerikm: one of our employees got stopped coming back from canada because they thought that his laptop was fake because it didn't have windows running on it
22:41:57erikmprpplague: well, gnome sort of looks like windows
22:42:12prpplagueerikm: true, but he was running init 3
22:43:33BZFlagtime to take that xp snapshot and replace your background image I suppose.
22:44:06erikmBZFlag: lol :)
22:44:25erikmwell, my laptop still dual boots. have to remember to let it run windows when they ask
22:44:51BZFlagheh, that would mean a reboot. I always suspend/resume mine. ;-)
22:45:19erikmBZFlag: doesn't work with mine. ACPI prevents that
22:46:11BZFlagugh.
22:47:50Russ|werkerikm: just get the xp themes
22:48:16prpplagueBZFlag: not going to bring one of your new pda's with the fold out keyboard?
22:48:19Russ|werkand that palm tree background
22:48:56erikmRuss|werk: I think telling lilo to boot windows as a default will do the job. it will boot unattended into windows
22:49:51Russ|werkhttp://russ.dhs.org:8000/files/xpscreenshot.png
22:50:07BZFlagprpplague: if I have a non-developer board by then I'll bring it. I doubt I will though.
22:50:20Russ|werkI was bored
22:50:34BZFlaglilo? ugh. grub rox ;-)
22:50:41Russ|werklilo is simple
22:51:25prpplagueBZFlag: cool, i think seletz might have one of our "hack kits" available at OLS too
22:51:57erikmBZFlag: lilo does the job for me. has done it for seven years already or so
22:52:10BZFlagRuss|werk: nice "theme". Just hide the bar and it will easily fool most anyone.
22:52:31BZFlagerikm: I've been a grub convert for close to 4 years now.
22:52:46erikmRuss|werk: nice theme
22:53:03Russ|werkBZFlag: I was thinking about it, but then I wrote a cramfs loader for it
22:53:03Russ|werkew
22:53:14BZFlagbeing able to boot a floppy and pick a kernel/initrd off anyones lilo-hosed machine is just a beautiful thing. ;-)
22:53:33prpplaguelol
22:53:47erikmBZFlag: that's where the linuxcare bootable business card comes in :)
22:53:56BZFlagRuss|werk: didn't say the code was beautiful, just the capabilities.
22:53:57rfswishes for a bootdisk with every possible disk repair tool included...
22:54:32BZFlagerikm: will it pick a kernel/initrd or does it just allow you to pivot_root etc. ?
22:54:44BZFlagrfs: start a project. ;-)
22:55:14rfsyarbt-0.1 here we come
22:55:59BZFlagor yabf-0.1 ?
22:56:02erikmBZFlag: it boots a standard kernel that tries to mount all filesystens it discovers
22:56:37erikmBZFlag: you can remount a filesystem rw, chroot into it and fix the problem
23:00:16prpplagueheads home
23:00:39prpplague_rmk_: hope to see ya at OLS, and let me buy ya a beer as a thanks
23:04:47erikmgoes zzz
23:05:36Russ|werkbrb
23:09:18erikmsee you guys at OLS
23:35:27_rmk_vanishes
23:36:05_rmk_see ppl at ols or maybe earlier

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