| 00:49:10 | sammy_ | morning |
| 01:56:35 | Sammy | Russ: watch this http://211.75.21.252/word.jpg |
| 05:07:14 | Sammy | metting |
| 05:07:35 | Sammy | er meeting :) |
| 08:12:27 | Sammy | is back |
| 09:56:36 | Sammy | hello erikm , welcome back from boring meeting |
| 09:57:21 | erikm | hello Sammy :) |
| 10:47:01 | Sammy | change place & search dinner |
| 10:58:57 | amrutha | erikm: Hi |
| 10:59:25 | amrutha | erikm: Hi |
| 11:47:07 | erikm | returns |
| 14:23:31 | sammy_wms | erikm:what's "brb" ? |
| 14:31:02 | erikm | be right back |
| 14:34:21 | sammy_wms | he.he. copy that , so I can use it when Sammy quit |
| 14:36:20 | erikm | sammy_wms: there's also bbl (be back later) |
| 14:37:09 | sammy_wms | ~^O^~ |
| 14:37:59 | erikm | somebody wo is brb will return earlier than somebody who is bbl |
| 14:40:19 | sammy_wms | sha sha knee :) |
| 14:41:50 | sammy_wms | this is the chinese language mean's thank you |
| 14:42:33 | erikm | hmm, I'll have to remember to use that with my chinese co-workers :) |
| 14:46:27 | sammy_wms | erikm: you should see this ,more useful , http://211.75.21.252/word.jpg |
| 14:47:25 | sammy_wms | first line = how are you or how is you doing today , second line = I am fine or good :) |
| 14:49:54 | erikm | I knew the first line, but I've learned it without the "ma" part. |
| 15:04:41 | sammy_wms | erikm: sorry that's ma is for ask , like " ? " |
| 15:05:34 | erikm | sammy_wms: ok, makes sense |
| 15:12:20 | Russ | morning erikm |
| 15:12:41 | erikm | hello Russ |
| 15:13:48 | Russ | erikm: don't suppose you got a chance to look at that backlight stuff |
| 15:14:32 | erikm | Russ: not really. meeting on thursday and friday |
| 15:14:45 | erikm | Russ: and I've been to my brother for the whole weekend |
| 15:14:52 | Russ | ah |
| 15:16:18 | erikm | Russ: didi you submit it to the patch system? |
| 15:16:24 | erikm | s/didi/did/ |
| 15:16:55 | Russ | not yet, I'm waiting to get some comment on the userside interface from the person writing the userspace stuff |
| 20:02:27 | BZFlag | erikm: you around? |
| 20:03:43 | erikm | BZFlag: yes |
| 20:05:58 | BZFlag | GPL section 2.c seems to require a GPL and no warantee statement at the prompt. |
| 20:06:24 | BZFlag | I just had a conversation with the CRL folk on this and they added a one liner: |
| 20:06:39 | erikm | BZFlag: no |
| 20:06:56 | erikm | BZFlag: I mean: yes |
| 20:06:58 | BZFlag | (c) 2000-2001 Compaq Computer Corporation, provided with NO WARRANTY under the terms of the |
| 20:06:58 | BZFlag | GNU General Public License. |
| 20:07:07 | BZFlag | on the GPLed version. |
| 20:07:10 | erikm | BZFlag: sorry, I was confused |
| 20:07:43 | BZFlag | are you still? ;-) |
| 20:08:02 | erikm | BZFlag: yes, it requires a no warranty statement, but you don't have to supply extra stuff |
| 20:08:21 | erikm | BZFlag: I asked RMS about that when I started blob |
| 20:08:28 | BZFlag | and? |
| 20:08:46 | erikm | BZFlag: let me dig in my mailbox... |
| 20:08:54 | BZFlag | it indicates copyright,warantee and GPL information as required. |
| 20:09:57 | erikm | got it |
| 20:10:07 | erikm | I asked: |
| 20:10:10 | erikm | The short notice is no problem, but if I want to implement the "show w" |
| 20:10:10 | erikm | and "show c" options, I have to include pretty large parts of the GPL into |
| 20:10:10 | erikm | the bootloader image, which I'd like to keep small (Flash ROM is a |
| 20:10:10 | erikm | precious resource). Is it possible to use references to the GPL instead? |
| 20:10:27 | erikm | and RMS replied: |
| 20:10:34 | erikm | You don't HAVE to make it print such a notice. That is optional. |
| 20:10:34 | erikm | It is up to you. |
| 20:10:34 | erikm | The GPL says that IF the program prints such a notice, |
| 20:10:34 | erikm | other people who modify it cannot remove the notice. |
| 20:10:34 | erikm | But you as the initial author can decide not to put one in. |
| 20:12:03 | erikm | </quote> |
| 20:19:42 | BZFlag | I get from reading that, that if copyright and/or warranty info is displayed, then the GPL reference must also be displayed. |
| 20:20:05 | BZFlag | I do NOT get get the GPL itself need to be displayed, just a reference to it. |
| 20:20:45 | BZFlag | spams... |
| 20:20:50 | erikm | I asked him about the "show c" and "show c" examples in the GPL |
| 20:20:57 | BZFlag | c) If the modified program normally reads commands interactively |
| 20:20:57 | BZFlag | when run, you must cause it, when started running for such |
| 20:20:57 | BZFlag | interactive use in the most ordinary way, to print or display an |
| 20:20:57 | BZFlag | announcement including an appropriate copyright notice and a |
| 20:20:57 | BZFlag | notice that there is no warranty (or else, saying that you provide |
| 20:20:58 | BZFlag | a warranty) and that users may redistribute the program under |
| 20:21:00 | BZFlag | these conditions, and telling the user how to view a copy of this |
| 20:21:02 | BZFlag | License. (Exception: if the Program itself is interactive but |
| 20:21:04 | BZFlag | does not normally print such an announcement, your work based on |
| 20:21:06 | BZFlag | the Program is not required to print an announcement.) |
| 20:21:17 | erikm | that's exactly what blob does |
| 20:22:20 | BZFlag | hmmm. /me does not recall a notice: users may redistribute the program under these conditions, and telling the user how to view a copy of this License. |
| 20:23:29 | BZFlag | I also do not see the "show c" example you refer to. |
| 20:23:31 | erikm | that's what I asked RMS, you don't *need* to display that |
| 20:25:04 | BZFlag | I think ( and jamey agreed ) that showing a one liner is a Good Thing to be sure. |
| 20:25:51 | erikm | Copyright (C) 1999 2000 2001 Jan-Derk Bakker and Erik Mouw |
| 20:25:51 | BZFlag | (c) 2001 ErikM, provided with NO WARRANTY under the terms of the GNU General Public License. should suffice. |
| 20:26:19 | erikm | blob comes with ABSOLUTELY NO WARRANTY; read the GNU GPL for details. |
| 20:26:31 | BZFlag | so could "provided with NO WARRANTY under the terms of the GNU General Public License" be added? |
| 20:27:24 | erikm | yes, but why? |
| 20:27:28 | BZFlag | imagine some popular handheld shipping with blob. I would think you would want the end user to be aware of thier rights. |
| 20:27:38 | erikm | they are |
| 20:27:52 | BZFlag | I know of one case where they are not. |
| 20:27:54 | erikm | it's what blob prints right now |
| 20:28:13 | BZFlag | huh? /me looks around for a blobbed box... |
| 20:28:13 | erikm | see src/blob/main.c |
| 20:28:56 | BZFlag | ugh... nevermind. |
| 20:29:13 | BZFlag | did not recall that text at all, just the copyright stuff. |
| 20:29:30 | BZFlag | I'm an idiot. too many bootloaders. =( |
| 20:29:35 | erikm | hehe ;) |
| 20:30:12 | BZFlag | yes, that's works great. I'd been looking at the illegal HP version that removed that text. |
| 20:30:40 | erikm | ehm, and what about the bern convention? |
| 20:30:47 | BZFlag | bern? |
| 20:31:04 | erikm | implemented in most copyright laws |
| 20:31:24 | BZFlag | rehash? |
| 20:31:27 | erikm | it basically says that removing or changing copyright notices is illegal |
| 20:31:52 | BZFlag | I agree. I'm trying to get the HP version corrected and updated. |
| 20:32:10 | BZFlag | might be a non-issue as it looks like the product will never ship. |
| 20:32:13 | erikm | they should definitively upgrade to blob-2.0.5-pre1 ;) |
| 20:32:19 | BZFlag | agreed. |
| 20:32:43 | BZFlag | oh, good news on that front. It looks like I will have a paying contract for blob work. |
| 20:32:54 | erikm | cool |
| 20:32:59 | BZFlag | they want boot from CF and hands free updates |
| 20:33:13 | erikm | remembers to prod rmk and benh |
| 20:33:49 | BZFlag | I expect to start later this week or early next week. probably start with a tux for now till I get demo hardware from them. |
| 20:39:31 | BZFlag | thanx for listening. /me recalls someone he has to poke on the HP version issue. |
| 21:06:10 | | i heard 1+1 was 3 for large values of 1 |
| 21:06:10 | duck | ibot: 1+1? |
| 21:26:16 | BZFlag | erikm: duck is here at lineo and interested in a arm7? arm9? some other arm port of blob. |
| 21:26:28 | erikm | BZFlag: that would be nice |
| 21:26:36 | BZFlag | I seem to recall it's arm7tdmi |
| 21:26:41 | BZFlag | whacks duck |
| 21:27:01 | duck | 720t core, actually |
| 21:27:10 | BZFlag | erikm: how many strongarm isms do you think he will find? |
| 21:27:39 | erikm | BZFlag: not too many. memsetup-*.S, and serial.c |
| 21:28:15 | BZFlag | duck, you have a toolchains and a compiling, but not working, binary now? |
| 21:28:36 | duck | and led.c and time.c ... |
| 21:28:43 | erikm | BZFlag: oh, and start.S, of course |
| 21:28:52 | duck | yeah, quite a few #ifdef's here and there. |
| 21:28:52 | BZFlag | erikm: have you done hardware jtag debugging under with blob? or just serial print? |
| 21:29:05 | erikm | duck: yup, those two as well |
| 21:29:15 | erikm | BZFlag: no, the LED was our debug method |
| 21:29:40 | BZFlag | so do we want to #ifdef some more or should we think about extracting further? |
| 21:30:49 | duck | ericm: I've got jeeni access to my board, and I think I have to link an elf32 blob to get it to my board, no? |
| 21:31:06 | erikm | duck: no, you want blob |
| 21:31:19 | BZFlag | erikm: huh?? |
| 21:31:40 | erikm | duck: blob-elf32 is the binary with the ELF headers, blob is stripped |
| 21:31:54 | BZFlag | ahh... /me follows now. |
| 21:31:57 | duck | ericm: so how do I convince gdb to load blob (as data) to my board? |
| 21:32:28 | erikm | duck: ehm, I don't know. I write blob to flash with jtag |
| 21:33:27 | erikm | duck: but if you have something on the board that can relocate the image, you could use one of the ELF images |
| 21:33:28 | duck | ericm: I didn't get a blob-elf32 when I was done make-ing |
| 21:34:19 | BZFlag | duck: you should have a src/blob-*-elf32 |
| 21:34:35 | BZFlag | start and rest are the two pieces. |
| 21:34:36 | erikm | BZFlag: actually src/blob/blob-elf32 |
| 21:34:44 | erikm | BZFlag: (with the CVS version) |
| 21:35:07 | BZFlag | erikm: hmmm.. ah. /me needs to get new cvs updates now and start digging in again. |
| 21:35:12 | erikm | and I really recommend the CVS version or blob-2.0.5-pre1, cause that's much cleaner code |
| 21:35:25 | BZFlag | I suppose I sould even subscribe to -commits for a while. ;-) |
| 21:36:50 | duck | erikm: I've got CVS, and blob-{rest,start, start-chain}-elf32, but no blob-elf32. Can I just link the 3 pieces together to get blob-elf32? |
| 21:37:56 | erikm | duck: the makefile should link blob-start and blob-rest together into blob |
| 21:38:08 | erikm | duck: or actually: dd them together |
| 21:38:54 | erikm | duck: samy holds for blob-start-chain and blob-rest, they make up blob-chain |
| 21:39:29 | erikm | duck: the linux kernel source has a dirty trick to make an ELF image from a binary image. it was some linker magic. |
| 21:40:11 | erikm | looks |
| 21:40:59 | duck | erikm: I believe blob is the output of dd, and is not an elf-32 file. |
| 21:41:09 | erikm | duck: that's right |
| 21:41:50 | duck | erikm: I *think* I need an elf file to give to gdb to be loaded to the board (via jeeni), no? |
| 21:42:07 | erikm | duck: found it. check out the piggy.o target in arch/i386/boot/compressed/Makefile |
| 21:42:24 | erikm | duck: I don't know, I haven't used jeeni |
| 21:44:11 | duck | erikm: duck will inspect the piggy. |
| 21:44:49 | erikm | duck: piggy.o basically creates an object file from a binary bunch of data |
| 21:45:42 | duck | erikm: jeeni is a device that talks gdb to the host, and JTAG to the target. My CPU has 720T core, hence really knows how to talk JTAG. |
| 21:46:44 | erikm | duck: I guess jeeni can't program the flash |
| 21:47:50 | duck | erikm: I was hoping to have it stick blob into ram, run it, and have blob download another copy of itself and flash that. |
| 21:48:06 | erikm | duck: then you'd better start with the blob-chain image, load that somewhere in ram, and start it |
| 21:48:20 | erikm | duck: provided that the RAM has been set up, of course |
| 21:49:19 | duck | erikm: Yeah, a lot of stuff has to be poked into regs to setup SDRAM ctrlr before jeeni can d/l stuff to ram. |
| 21:49:52 | erikm | duck: ok, in that case start with blob-chain. it's a position independent first level loader |
| 21:50:49 | erikm | duck: it will help you to get the second level loader running without having to deal with the memory at first |
| 21:52:36 | duck | erikm: ok, cool. |
| 21:53:57 | erikm | duck: I still need to document this kind of stuff :) |
| 21:54:14 | duck | erikm: that would be helpful. |
| 21:54:37 | duck | erikm: BZFlag says you have some primitive network patches? |
| 21:55:35 | erikm | duck: that's right, but I need to sort out the licensing issues with rmk about that |
| 21:55:52 | erikm | anyway, zzz time |
| 21:56:04 | erikm | duck: feel free to mail me |
| 21:56:33 | BZFlag | thanx erikm. nite |
| 21:56:35 | duck | erikm: ok, i think i'll do that. |
