| 00:26:43 | sammy | morning everyone |
| 01:30:40 | Russ | morning |
| 04:54:24 | sammy | hello Russ , amything new ? |
| 07:30:06 | Russ | Sammy: not really anything new |
| 08:09:09 | erikm | morning, * |
| 08:09:22 | Sammy | evering erikm |
| 08:09:42 | WeirdArms | ls |
| 08:13:46 | Russ | total 0 |
| 08:14:54 | erikm | Russ: could have been "lectori salutem" as well :) |
| 08:20:15 | Sammy | I am start porting blob on sa-1110 develop board ... |
| 08:21:22 | Sammy | my friend borraw that board for me |
| 08:22:27 | erikm | Sammy: cool |
| 08:22:36 | erikm | Sammy: should be quite easy to port nowadays |
| 08:23:26 | Sammy | I try |
| 08:25:10 | Sammy | this board running Angelboot ...and download with ethernet ... |
| 08:25:30 | Sammy | erikm : can blob download use ethernet ? |
| 08:27:07 | Sammy | when ? |
| 08:33:42 | erikm | Sammy: not yet |
| 08:34:05 | erikm | Sammy: if BZFlag gets a contract to port it, it can be done quite fast |
| 08:34:23 | erikm | Sammy: (two months or so) |
| 08:34:43 | erikm | Sammy: otherwise it'll take at least half a year, I expect |
| 08:37:56 | Sammy | all I can do is watting , maybe someday I can help a little bit .. |
| 08:39:57 | Sammy | erikm : can you add run image from ram into blob , is that necessary ? |
| 08:41:19 | Sammy | I think this maybe not let blob too big , right ? |
| 08:41:53 | erikm | Sammy: we already do that in the CVS version |
| 08:42:18 | erikm | Sammy: blob got split up in blob the bootloader and diag the diagnostics tool |
| 08:42:19 | Sammy | really ? |
| 08:42:36 | erikm | Sammy: diag is loaded with "load kernel" and started with "boot" |
| 08:45:30 | Sammy | connect to the CVS ... |
| 10:59:11 | Sammy | erikm: is I want to download blob from CVS , in this time what command should I add after /cvsroot ? |
| 11:15:46 | erikm | Sammy: see the blob project pages on sourceforge |
| 13:19:40 | prpplague | morning all |
| 13:20:31 | prpplague | WeirdArms: things settle down on the linux-arm-kernel list? |
| 13:20:46 | WeirdArms | ? |
| 13:21:03 | WeirdArms | I think Nico see's my point a bit more clearly |
| 13:21:18 | WeirdArms | although I was a bit snappy |
| 13:22:55 | prpplague | WeirdArms: nothing like (virtual) room full of opionated programmers.... |
| 13:23:37 | WeirdArms | It wasn't like that |
| 13:24:01 | WeirdArms | basically I haven't explained the work clearly to everyone and I'm asking for a bit of faith that it will work |
| 13:24:17 | WeirdArms | thats a bit much to ask people who don't really know how good you are |
| 13:28:29 | prpplague | WeirdArms: i understand that all to well |
| 13:29:31 | WeirdArms | I've just found it frustraiting that I never get an answer to my questions because not many people know the specifics of the ARM memory implementation |
| 13:30:00 | WeirdArms | So it's taking me a long time to implement |
| 13:33:18 | WeirdArms | But it's progressing |
| 13:37:01 | prpplague | WeirdArms: well i'm just a newbie in the ARM world, i'm experimenting on getting linux running on the ELF board from InHand, it amazing what you can learn when don't have any instructions |
| 13:42:59 | WeirdArms | Well I'm pretty new to Linux internals |
| 14:21:51 | sammy | hi :-) |
| 14:26:27 | WeirdArms | Hi |
| 14:37:52 | prpplague | howdy sammy |
| 14:38:10 | prpplague | sammy: have you been LARTed today? |
| 14:38:46 | prpplague | i need bumber sticker that says that...or maybe "Got Blob?" |
| 14:39:05 | prpplague | or maybe "have blob, will boot" |
| 15:13:46 | WeirdArms | wb erikm |
| 15:13:49 | WeirdArms | how was your meeting? |
| 15:14:05 | erikm | unproductive, as usual with a meeting > four people |
| 15:14:14 | WeirdArms | hehehe |
| 15:57:54 | seletz | hi folks! |
| 16:01:40 | prpplague | howdy |
| 16:02:22 | WeirdArms | well time for me to get some sleep |
| 16:02:44 | prpplague | later |
| 16:02:45 | seletz | weirdarms: goodnight! |
| 16:09:36 | erikm | thinks WeirdArms does weird things in his WeirdSleep |
| 16:09:44 | prpplague | lol |
| 16:10:02 | prpplague | this dlink 802.11b access point has 16m flash |
| 16:11:12 | prpplague | the specs say its sa-1100 core but i don't see one |
| 16:16:38 | prpplague | hmm, its got solder points labeled jtag |
| 16:16:50 | erikm | w00t! |
| 16:17:19 | erikm | get the device ID and see if it's an sa1100 :) |
| 16:17:51 | prpplague | erikm: haven't done anything with jtag yet...., i'll have to some reading |
| 16:18:58 | erikm | prpplague: short jtag introduction: it's designed by a comittee, therefore it: a) overly complex and b) broken by design |
| 16:19:22 | prpplague | hmm, there doesn't appear to be an ic even close to the size of sa-1100 |
| 16:19:28 | prpplague | erikm: ya thats what i hear |
| 16:19:46 | erikm | prpplague: it won't take long to discover that the JTAG state machine actually has twice the amount of states it really needs |
| 16:20:44 | erikm | prpplague: an sa1110 is quite small |
| 16:22:08 | prpplague | as small as a flash ic ? |
| 16:22:53 | erikm | yes, it's BGA |
| 16:23:45 | prpplague | hmm, guess i'll try to hack this thing, http://www.dlink.com/products/wireless/dwl1000ap/ |
| 16:29:32 | prpplague | http://www.abcsinc.com/small-linux/dsc00043.jpg |
| 16:29:38 | prpplague | theres a pics of the board |
| 16:30:01 | prpplague | the two dark chips i've not been able to identify |
| 16:30:50 | erikm | wgets |
| 16:31:28 | erikm | the dark one at the bottom is not a SA1100 |
| 16:31:37 | seletz | eating kebap |
| 16:33:06 | erikm | the one in the middle could be an sa1110, but the package is a bit unusual |
| 16:35:35 | prpplague | it has www.nwn.com on it |
| 16:36:29 | prpplague | looks like they've sold out to intersil |
| 16:37:13 | prpplague | ARM940 core controller |
| 16:38:40 | sammy | hoo ,everyone ^_^ |
| 16:47:31 | prpplague | erikm: found a pdf of the cpu - http://www.abcsinc.com/small-linux/FN4932.pdf |
| 16:48:45 | erikm | wgets and looks |
| 16:50:50 | erikm | prpplague: btw, the black chip at the bottom could be an UCB 1200 |
| 16:51:18 | prpplague | erikm: i've got the specs on it too, let me check |
| 16:52:36 | erikm | the data sheets talks about an SCP port, and the only sensible device I would know to connect to that is the philips ucb 1[123]000 |
| 16:52:54 | prpplague | erikm: pdf says "direct sequence spread spectrum baseband processor" |
| 16:53:46 | prpplague | prism 2.4 chipset |
| 16:54:54 | prpplague | hows the support for arm9 under linux? |
| 16:57:17 | erikm | quite good, afaik |
| 16:57:24 | erikm | but this particular chip won't work |
| 16:57:32 | erikm | it doesn't have a real MMU |
| 16:58:01 | prpplague | ya i was wondering about |
| 16:58:02 | prpplague | that |
| 16:58:24 | prpplague | what about uclinux? |
| 16:58:44 | prpplague | isn't that geared to mmu-less cpus? |
| 16:58:55 | erikm | yes, it's for mmu-less stuff. |
| 16:59:05 | erikm | I don't like mmu-less CPUs |
| 16:59:36 | prpplague | hmm, guess i'll pass on this one, maybe better luck next time |
| 17:01:28 | sammy | if I want download blob in CVS with diag , which modulename should I use ? |
| 17:02:00 | erikm | it's in blob |
| 17:03:57 | sammy | ok, it's download finish ... |
| 17:04:27 | erikm | sammy: right, diag lives in blob/src/diag/ |
| 17:06:15 | sammy | erikm : you saw that blob can do load kernel image from ram , but I don't see any code doing about this ? |
| 17:06:49 | erikm | sammy: diag is relocated at the same position as the kernel, that's why it works for diag |
| 17:08:33 | sammy | ohh.. one question about the word "diag" , maybe call now the english teach time , what is that diag reall mean ? |
| 17:08:58 | Russ|werk | erikm: nexus is a bit weird |
| 17:10:06 | erikm | Russ|werk: hmm? I didn't follow his complete conversation, just picked up the last question |
| 17:11:40 | prpplague | looks like intersil is using a large selection of arm9 based products |
| 17:12:52 | erikm | and why not, arm makes sense :) |
| 17:14:40 | prpplague | bummer, looks like they all don't use mmu |
| 17:14:58 | ed__ | what are they using them for ? |
| 17:15:21 | prpplague | wireless lan and cable modems |
| 17:15:52 | ed__ | ahh |
| 17:16:22 | prpplague | i really had hopes for this board, its a shame that it has no real mmu |
| 17:16:56 | erikm | prpplague: well, if it only has to do one thing uc-linux makes sense |
| 17:18:04 | ed__ | i want to see arm microcontrollers with linux built in |
| 17:18:18 | Russ|werk | ? |
| 17:18:28 | Russ|werk | ah, microcontrollers |
| 17:18:32 | Russ|werk | that would be a lart |
| 17:18:38 | erikm | or nesa |
| 17:18:41 | Russ|werk | mmuless processors run linux |
| 17:18:43 | ed__ | nah something smaller |
| 17:18:52 | Russ|werk | just no fork(), only vfork() |
| 17:19:01 | ed__ | that costs < 30 bux |
| 17:19:12 | ed__ | no mmu makes it a pain to port stuff though |
| 17:19:22 | erikm | Russ|werk: that means no multitasking |
| 17:24:55 | Russ|werk | no it doesn't |
| 17:25:06 | Russ|werk | it just means unsafe multitasking |
| 17:25:28 | Russ|werk | and no shared memory afaik |
| 17:28:33 | erikm | BZFlag: good news, I can maybe get bootp/tftp code |
| 17:29:06 | Russ|werk | bootp/tftp code would be simple from scratch |
| 17:29:44 | prpplague | we'll i'll put some info on my site about, maybe someone can use it |
| 17:29:58 | erikm | Russ|werk: rmk has that code lying around. it's tested on arm and it works |
| 17:30:47 | Russ|werk | its the network stack and driver that is a bitch |
| 17:31:22 | Russ|werk | I read through the tftp rfc |
| 17:31:57 | erikm | Russ|werk: his complete bootp/tftp loader *including* ethernet stack and driver is 5664 bytes |
| 17:32:24 | Russ|werk | shweet |
| 17:41:07 | erikm | Russ|werk: rmk needs to clean up the licensing issues. there's someone else that wants to use it, he'll probably dual license it |
| 17:45:38 | erikm | Russ|werk: 834 lines of C code including ethernet driver and AIF conversion utility |
| 17:46:15 | erikm | Russ|werk: (according to rmk) |
| 17:57:41 | prpplague_lunch | general speaking, you'd think that a device that provides firewalling/nat would need a mmu right? |
| 17:58:19 | erikm | prpplague: not really |
| 18:06:09 | BZFlag | that includes the arm pcmcia init code? |
| 18:06:42 | erikm | BZFlag: no, it's for an ebsa110 |
| 18:07:29 | BZFlag | ah. the tarball I uploaded has arm pcmcia init code in it as well. |
| 18:07:45 | Russ|werk | pcmcia init code? |
| 18:07:51 | Russ|werk | not exactly complex |
| 18:07:52 | BZFlag | and netboot is also GPLed, do doing a clean merge of the two should work. |
| 18:08:10 | Russ|werk | maybe if you want to init an actual card |
| 18:08:15 | Russ|werk | but just the slot-s |
| 18:08:17 | BZFlag | Russ|werk: nope, but needed for devices without onboard eth. |
| 18:08:21 | erikm | BZFlag: rmk's code only needs ethernet drivers |
| 18:08:53 | BZFlag | I'm happy with simple pcmcia and ne2k eth card support. |
| 18:08:54 | Russ|werk | I don't think you'd need to handle insertion events |
| 18:09:08 | erikm | BZFlag: there currently only is an am79c961a pnp ether driver |
| 18:09:08 | BZFlag | nope. just detect and configure existing cards. |
| 18:09:33 | BZFlag | ne2k cf cards should be common. |
| 18:10:24 | BZFlag | Can we add Russ' splash code as requiring --enable-splash or some such? |
| 18:10:44 | erikm | BZFlag: I've been thinking about it, and I think we can |
| 18:11:08 | erikm | BZFlag: just make it an __init() call, and it will show up immediately |
| 18:11:16 | BZFlag | cool. I need to get jflash compiling against the new kernel/blob too. |
| 18:11:44 | BZFlag | erikm: sounds good. it should add a "splash" command too. |
| 18:11:54 | erikm | BZFlag: btw, I have a very small ramdisk/jffs2 image on the LART site. should work on TuxScreen as well |
| 18:11:57 | Russ|werk | erikm: would need to handle it just right |
| 18:12:05 | erikm | BZFlag: what would a "splash" command do? |
| 18:12:17 | Russ|werk | erikm: the best place to put the actual image you be in a paramater block |
| 18:12:22 | Russ|werk | er, would be |
| 18:12:24 | BZFlag | erikm: have you tried the tux buildroot andersee built? it's nice. |
| 18:13:02 | erikm | BZFlag: no, haven't seen it yet. I've been trying to chase down a 220-->110 converter somewhere so I actually power the tuxscreen |
| 18:13:34 | BZFlag | erikm: I assume at some point we will also add conditional lcd testing code and load/flash code for the splash screen. the "splash" command just displays the current splash image. |
| 18:14:06 | erikm | BZFlag: seletz has been working on LCD code in diag. if we move it to the library blob can use it as well |
| 18:14:10 | BZFlag | heh, your comment goes both ways, the tuc uclibc buildroot should work on the lart too. ;-) |
| 18:14:22 | erikm | BZFlag: ok, mine is glibc based |
| 18:15:12 | erikm | BZFlag: but still, I don't see a point in having a splash command when the only thing we show on the LCD is the splash screen |
| 18:15:39 | BZFlag | our current tuxscreen-image.jffs2 is about 640k and has busybox/tinylogin/pcmcia-cs/lrzsz/udhcpc |
| 18:16:14 | erikm | BZFlag: ok, my jffs2 image is about 1MB and has busybox/tinylogin/lrzsz |
| 18:16:41 | BZFlag | erikm: splash should be disabled by default, and require --enable to turn it on, but that same section of code will have the lcd test features in the future. |
| 18:17:10 | BZFlag | as well as displaying a boot menu of sorts on devices that have some boot selector buttons etc. |
| 18:17:12 | erikm | BZFlag: well, the test features can go into diag, that's what it's for |
| 18:17:21 | Russ|werk | my splasd screen says BLOB! in big white letters |
| 18:17:43 | BZFlag | It would be nice to loose 384k and gain pcmcia, no? ;-) |
| 18:18:36 | Russ|werk | 384k? |
| 18:18:39 | erikm | BZFlag: well, I'm going to test PCMCIA on LART next week, so I'll keep it in mind |
| 18:18:39 | BZFlag | erikm: true, but I think there will be a need to test the lcd in diag, and showing splash is one possible "test" ;-) |
| 18:19:10 | BZFlag | Russ|werk: erikm said his image was 1M but did not have pcmcia-cs in it. |
| 18:19:51 | erikm | BZFlag: I know tuxscreen needs the LCD for user feedback |
| 18:20:13 | BZFlag | erikm: even without a shannon to test on, I'd suggest you try the shannon buildroot-tux out. I expect it will work fine on lart, just by changing kernel and blob config. |
| 18:21:24 | erikm | BZFlag: I'll try next week |
| 18:22:08 | BZFlag | erikm: tux wants lcd for user menu, true. but I do not want all boxes to have to have it. It's not essential code. I do want to avoid multiple people doing the same hack, so including it but disabling it by default seems the best way to reuse efforts. |
| 18:22:19 | erikm | BZFlag: oh, ok |
| 18:22:32 | erikm | BZFlag: so an --enable-splash would make sense |
| 18:22:39 | BZFlag | agreed. |
| 18:22:53 | Russ|werk | the splash code will end up being very small |
| 18:22:57 | erikm | BZFlag: otoh, what about this: |
| 18:23:02 | BZFlag | oer perhaps --enable-lcd ? if there will be more lcd test code too. |
| 18:23:12 | erikm | that's what I wanted to propose |
| 18:23:19 | BZFlag | heh, great minds. ;-) |
| 18:23:40 | erikm | but really, test code should go into diag, I really don't want to make blob as bloated as bootldr |
| 18:23:59 | erikm | (FYI: a bootldr image for assabet is about 100K) |
| 18:24:00 | BZFlag | hmm... explain the plan for diag? |
| 18:24:12 | BZFlag | some --enable-diag flag? |
| 18:24:26 | erikm | BZFlag: you should subscribe to the blob-cvs-commit list |
| 18:24:31 | BZFlag | heh |
| 18:24:58 | erikm | seletz wanted some test code for his platform and wanted to put it in blob |
| 18:25:13 | erikm | but I want blob to be small and simple |
| 18:25:36 | erikm | so what I made (in CVS) is a blob and a diag image, which share a library of common code |
| 18:26:04 | erikm | if you want to run the diagnostics, you just type "download kernel", upload diag, and "boot" into it |
| 18:26:08 | BZFlag | on phone |
| 18:38:48 | BZFlag | that makes good sense for a lot of diag code. |
| 18:39:45 | BZFlag | I do think that on platforms that only have large flash blocks (like iPAQ) it makes sense to link all that stuff in. |
| 18:40:01 | BZFlag | If you have 256k of space, you might as well use it. |
| 18:40:12 | erikm | BZFlag: the point is that you almost *never* need it |
| 18:40:25 | BZFlag | now perhaps there would be a diag image in that same block and a load command to get to it. |
| 18:40:32 | erikm | BZFlag: so if you really need it, just download it over the serial link |
| 18:42:17 | BZFlag | so perhaps diag could live in flash on the ipaq right after blob and be loaded from there if you ever need it? |
| 18:42:32 | erikm | BZFlag: on ipaq it would make sense |
| 18:42:53 | erikm | BZFlag: but on machines with boot block flash I pretty much doubt it |
| 18:43:01 | BZFlag | agreed! |
| 18:45:53 | erikm | just got rmk's code |
| 18:47:14 | erikm | this is sweet |
| 18:47:23 | erikm | 300 lines for arp+bootp+tftp |
| 18:48:04 | erikm | 109 lines for the IP stack |
| 18:48:20 | erikm | 220 lines for the ethernet driver |
| 18:48:57 | BZFlag | nice. |
| 18:49:08 | BZFlag | what is this code from? |
| 18:49:19 | erikm | rmk wrote it for his ebsa110 |
| 18:49:59 | erikm | benh already ported it to a couple of other architectures |
| 18:50:01 | BZFlag | I meant, was it part of a loader, kernel, stand alone, etc.? |
| 18:50:28 | erikm | it's part of a loader |
| 18:50:43 | BZFlag | cool. |
| 18:51:30 | erikm | the ebsa110 firmware is pretty brain damaged, could only do 38k4 over the serial port |
| 18:54:45 | Russ|werk | mmm....rmk code |
| 18:55:21 | erikm | Russ|werk: what's wrong with it? |
| 19:01:51 | sammy | need to get some sleep ... |
| 19:01:58 | sammy | night all |
| 19:02:18 | prpplague | what do you think guys - http://www.abcsinc.com/small-linux/dsc00044.jpg |
| 19:03:07 | erikm | cute, what's it? |
| 19:03:27 | prpplague | my thinclient project |
| 19:04:03 | prpplague | this is the new version with dual pcmcia or second ethernet |
| 19:04:11 | prpplague | http://www.linuxdevices.com/products/PD4854992533.html |
| 19:04:50 | prpplague | basically it is a small x-windows terminal |
| 19:18:21 | prpplague | no exactly a ground breaking design, but not bad for my first commercial, mass produced product |
| 19:18:48 | prpplague | s/no/not |
| 19:20:38 | erikm | large reset button, you expect it to run windows? :) |
| 19:21:19 | prpplague | the reset has been removed! that was added by the tawainese sub-contractor, we weren't amused |
| 19:36:36 | Russ|werk | I was saying rmk good |
| 19:39:35 | erikm | Russ|werk: OIC. mmm, as in "mmm, I like it" :) |
| 19:39:50 | Russ|werk | yup |
| 19:50:59 | erikm | goes zzz |
| 20:21:03 | prpplague | erikm: goodnight |
