| 00:54:01 | Sammy | hello TauDog |
| 02:20:09 | Russ | heh |
| 08:45:14 | erikm | morning |
| 08:45:21 | Russ | morning |
| 08:46:08 | ed__ | 'tag! |
| 08:52:10 | erikm | yawns |
| 10:28:34 | WeirdArms | Hey erik! |
| 10:29:07 | erikm | WeirdArms! |
| 10:29:39 | erikm | *sigh* "How can I download my program/EXE in that board?" |
| 10:29:47 | erikm | to the linux-arm mailing list... |
| 10:29:57 | erikm | politely flames |
| 10:30:13 | WeirdArms | Hehehe |
| 10:30:16 | WeirdArms | Guess what! |
| 10:30:25 | WeirdArms | I got the first bit of the FASS ARM Linux stuff to work! |
| 10:30:31 | erikm | cool! |
| 10:30:39 | erikm | and? improvements? |
| 10:30:47 | WeirdArms | Haven't measured |
| 10:31:01 | WeirdArms | gota remove all the extra TLB/Cache flushes first |
| 10:31:06 | erikm | hehe |
| 10:31:06 | WeirdArms | then a bit more work to do |
| 10:31:21 | WeirdArms | but the basic CPD structure works |
| 10:31:23 | WeirdArms | finally |
| 10:31:44 | erikm | btw, did davem ever merge your superfluos TLB/Cache flushes patch? |
| 10:31:44 | WeirdArms | one little bit of code missing coz of the evil way Russel uses the Domain Access Control Register |
| 10:31:59 | WeirdArms | erikm: It was a patch-reversion |
| 10:32:10 | WeirdArms | Davem talked to Linus |
| 10:32:17 | erikm | and linus ignored him? |
| 10:32:20 | WeirdArms | they found the patch-reversion and fixed it to what it should have been |
| 10:32:25 | WeirdArms | it got fixed |
| 10:32:29 | erikm | ah, good |
| 10:33:12 | erikm | well, I completely restructured blob :) |
| 10:33:56 | erikm | I'm currently putting a good fix for the pleb serial port in |
| 10:34:14 | erikm | needs coffee |
| 10:35:23 | WeirdArms | cool |
| 10:38:56 | WeirdArms | Basicall for starters it will only reduce the number of TLB flushes |
| 10:39:09 | WeirdArms | I gota look at the caching stuff again to see how to go about that |
| 10:39:30 | WeirdArms | virtual aliases on shared memory could be a problem |
| 11:02:50 | WeirdArms | erikm: where is koen? |
| 11:25:40 | erikm | returns |
| 11:26:02 | erikm | well, not in my room |
| 11:26:20 | erikm | oh, yeah, he's in berlin at the moment, AFAIK |
| 11:34:28 | WeirdArms | ok |
| 11:34:38 | WeirdArms | wonders why Russel does the things he does |
| 11:34:47 | WeirdArms | hey is there an arm linux # somewhere? |
| 11:35:10 | erikm | oh, koen just jumps in |
| 11:35:27 | WeirdArms | ? |
| 11:35:40 | WeirdArms | into your room? |
| 11:35:55 | WeirdArms | I guess so |
| 11:36:18 | koen | I am back from berlin but still have to change my .forward |
| 11:36:36 | koen | maybe I will not. It is very quiet. |
| 11:36:59 | WeirdArms | hehehe |
| 11:37:07 | WeirdArms | so you got my email then? |
| 11:37:12 | koen | yes |
| 11:37:39 | WeirdArms | Sorry I've been so quiet |
| 11:37:57 | koen | like I said : i don't mind silence :-) |
| 11:37:59 | WeirdArms | I got stuck Subject adminning till my Supervisor spat the dummy at the school |
| 11:38:19 | WeirdArms | Like I said, I'm making progress again |
| 11:38:20 | koen | Excuses accepted: get to work |
| 11:38:24 | WeirdArms | :) |
| 11:38:32 | WeirdArms | Aimming for Usenix Technical |
| 11:38:53 | koen | me too with another paper |
| 11:39:01 | WeirdArms | ok |
| 11:39:16 | WeirdArms | We will be trying to pair it up with our microkernel work |
| 11:39:38 | WeirdArms | and or working with IA-64 Linux along the same line for a OSDI or SOSP paper too |
| 11:39:52 | koen | we are targetting OSDI too. |
| 11:39:59 | WeirdArms | We just got a grant for 100,000+ in IA-64 SMP systems |
| 11:39:59 | koen | Looks like we will meet again |
| 11:40:21 | WeirdArms | I will probably be in Germany in December |
| 11:40:22 | koen | Erik likes o work down under, when can he apply for a job? |
| 11:40:23 | ed__ | so you get like 2 ? |
| 11:40:25 | ed__ | :D |
| 11:40:29 | WeirdArms | I'm not sure what my travel well be |
| 11:40:33 | WeirdArms | I might be able to pop it |
| 11:40:38 | WeirdArms | 1 QUAD |
| 11:40:43 | WeirdArms | 2 dual's I think |
| 11:40:49 | WeirdArms | and 3 single processor workstations |
| 11:41:11 | ed__ | setup a quake server |
| 11:41:20 | WeirdArms | Nah I got my own machine for that |
| 11:41:34 | WeirdArms | 1GHz Athlon with 266Mhz bus and DDR ram ;) |
| 11:41:47 | WeirdArms | koen: He would like to inturn in Sydney? |
| 11:42:29 | koen | I won't let him go! |
| 11:42:32 | WeirdArms | hehehe |
| 11:42:37 | WeirdArms | fair enough |
| 11:42:50 | WeirdArms | Well if he wants to he just has to ask |
| 11:43:04 | ed__ | oh be nice to erik and let him go to oz! |
| 11:43:26 | WeirdArms | who's ed? |
| 11:43:50 | ed__ | random person |
| 11:43:52 | WeirdArms | hehehe |
| 11:43:59 | WeirdArms | I think I"m going to have to head home soon |
| 11:44:13 | WeirdArms | I'm going to miss the last ferry and if I don't |
| 11:44:31 | WeirdArms | koen: Feel free to send a nag email |
| 11:44:46 | koen | promise |
| 11:44:47 | WeirdArms | after next weekend that is ;) |
| 11:45:08 | WeirdArms | Till tomorrow |
| 11:45:14 | koen | bye |
| 12:14:36 | sammy_ | koen ? what's that mean ? |
| 12:15:07 | erikm | it doesn't mean anything, it's a name |
| 12:20:47 | sammy | just like sammy_wms |
| 12:21:27 | erikm | well, in this case it was koen who came in five minutes after WeirdArms asked for him |
| 12:22:00 | sammy | ohh... ^_^ |
| 12:22:39 | sammy | I got your jffs2 and ramdisk, thanx ...I'll try it at home... |
| 12:23:51 | sammy | and in my case sammy_wms is the nick with a computer in my room... :-) |
| 12:25:08 | sammy | erikm: I saw your pic on your web site before , and curious about what's youe age ? |
| 12:25:40 | erikm | calculates |
| 12:25:42 | erikm | 29 |
| 12:26:02 | sammy | really ? so young... |
| 12:26:53 | erikm | sammy: young? people start calling me "sir" :) |
| 12:27:21 | sammy | marry ? |
| 12:27:26 | erikm | nope |
| 12:27:37 | sammy | gilefriend ? |
| 12:27:47 | erikm | currently not |
| 12:28:24 | erikm | but you could have known that from my night long hacking sessions :) |
| 12:30:02 | ed__ | heheh |
| 12:30:16 | sammy | yeh , but that's not mean "girlfriend" or "wife" are not important ....*_* |
| 12:32:11 | sammy | erikm : do you live in the wilderness ...? ;-D |
| 12:32:38 | erikm | looks outside |
| 12:32:47 | erikm | not really |
| 12:33:17 | sammy | it should be have some girl ... |
| 12:33:48 | ed__ | yeah erik! |
| 12:33:50 | erikm | plays "you can't hurry love" |
| 12:34:39 | sammy | I think computer is a good girl friend , but .... |
| 12:36:02 | sammy | even you can't hurry , but you still need a target right? |
| 12:36:28 | sammy | but not a computer .... |
| 13:02:16 | Sammy | is go home ... |
| 13:07:12 | seletz | hi all. |
| 13:09:08 | seletz | erikm: hi erik. Still angry 'bout my cmd-line history :) ? |
| 13:09:47 | erikm | wakes up |
| 13:09:53 | erikm | hi seletz, prpplague |
| 13:10:19 | erikm | seletz: I think I just solved it in a nice way |
| 13:10:45 | seletz | erikm: removed it, eh? |
| 13:10:56 | erikm | no, it's in the separate diagnostics tool |
| 13:11:55 | seletz | erikm: Very good. Thank you. any comments 'bot the code? |
| 13:12:16 | erikm | blob> boot |
| 13:12:17 | erikm | Starting kernel ... |
| 13:12:17 | erikm | diag version 2.0.5-pre1 |
| 13:12:17 | erikm | Copyright (C) 2001 Stefan Eletzhofer and Erik Mouw |
| 13:12:17 | erikm | diag comes with ABSOLUTELY NO WARRANTY; read the GNU GPL for details. |
| 13:12:18 | erikm | This is free software, and you are welcome to redistribute it |
| 13:12:20 | erikm | under certain conditions; read the GNU GPL for details. |
| 13:12:21 | erikm | diag> |
| 13:12:39 | erikm | bot code? |
| 13:12:53 | seletz | erikm: (beeing at home doing house-keeping)s/bot/about/g |
| 13:13:15 | sammy_ | all guys ...see you later... |
| 13:13:20 | erikm | bye sammy_ |
| 13:13:29 | seletz | sammy_: bye! |
| 13:14:53 | erikm | seletz: well, the diag code is very clean right now |
| 13:15:13 | seletz | erikm: well, cool. Did you have to clean up much? |
| 13:15:33 | erikm | seletz: after I split up blob in a library and a core part, diag was done in 30 minutes. and it even worked first time right |
| 13:16:04 | seletz | erik: ugh. library part? Dll-sort of thing? |
| 13:16:32 | erikm | seletz: diag is currently about 550 lines of code, much of it is standard GPL disclaimer |
| 13:16:36 | prpplague | later sammy |
| 13:16:51 | erikm | seletz: no, no DLL. just a static library with code |
| 13:17:04 | erikm | seletz: so both blob and diag link against -lblob |
| 13:17:59 | erikm | seletz: the library contains things like serial port IO, LEDs, string handling, timer, etc. |
| 13:18:45 | seletz | erikm: ahh. a little code-branch. hmmm. well, i think thats quite nice, brings in best of all to everyone! |
| 13:19:02 | erikm | seletz: library is about 1600 lines of code, |
| 13:20:26 | seletz | erikm: hmm. just another .section of cmds i suppose? |
| 13:20:55 | erikm | seletz: oh, yeah, the commandlist and initlist stuff is also in the library |
| 13:21:33 | seletz | erikm: well, this thingy just gets nicer every week, does'nt it? :)) |
| 13:21:58 | seletz | erikm: well, this thingy just gets nicer every week, does'nt it? :)) |
| 13:22:11 | seletz | ddoouubbllee :::))) |
| 13:22:26 | erikm | seletz: so I cleaned up your command history by adding an __initlist() entry for cmdhist_init() |
| 13:22:46 | prpplague | erikm: did you ever get anything usefull from that mizi blob? |
| 13:22:57 | erikm | prpplague: yeah, I got their code |
| 13:23:04 | erikm | but they switched to bootldr |
| 13:23:20 | seletz | erikm: great! removes the need of the cmdhist_init() calls in push() next() and prev() |
| 13:24:08 | erikm | seletz: well, my personal style is not to put that kind of stuff in. if it fails, it's a programmers error |
| 13:24:29 | erikm | seletz: for userland code I would have put an assert() over there, but nothing more |
| 13:26:29 | seletz | erikm: well, me too. i usually write xxx_init() and xxx_destroy() functions in modules i write. blob did not do do this, so i coded it that way. forgot about your cool init-lists. definitely the right thing to do, isnt it? |
| 13:28:52 | seletz | erikm: i wish i could get OS 10.1, so i could just cvs update to see the code ... :( |
| 13:29:27 | erikm | oh, you have a mac at home |
| 13:29:48 | seletz | erikm: yes. i got to hate PCs. |
| 13:30:06 | erikm | seletz: well, I love PCs, but only if they run linux |
| 13:30:23 | seletz | erikm: :) my mac runs linux PPC :) |
| 13:30:36 | erikm | seletz: (or another unix flavour with enough sane userland tools) |
| 13:31:20 | seletz | erikm: but dual-boot is a pain as of now. (erver saw forth? then you saw mac's boot-prom user IF) |
| 13:31:43 | erikm | seletz: like the boot prom from a Sparc |
| 13:32:01 | erikm | seletz: actually, I like OpenPROM. it's sane compared to a PC's BIOS |
| 13:32:19 | seletz | erikm: well, IIRC you just sys boot, don't you? (on SPARC) |
| 13:32:37 | erikm | seletz: depends if you set the right aliases |
| 13:32:42 | seletz | erikm: BIOS === YUCK |
| 13:32:47 | prpplague | erikm: was there anything in the mizi code worth keeping? |
| 13:33:04 | seletz | what's MIZI ? |
| 13:33:29 | erikm | seletz: otherwise you can boot /IOMMU@0xff000000/SBUS/3/ESP@0xfe000000/disk/3 |
| 13:34:06 | seletz | erikm: hmmmm. looks _exactly_ like the MAC way. (wondering ...) |
| 13:34:27 | erikm | prpplague: it's not a unified diff, so hard to read the patch. I need to rediff it |
| 13:34:57 | erikm | seletz: powermac and sparc use the same kind of PROM: IEEE 1275 aka OpenPROM |
| 13:35:53 | seletz | erikm: hmm. _maybe_ it's worth that i take a closer look ... |
| 13:36:54 | erikm | seletz: unfortunately the PCI standardisation comittee missed the opportunity to make OpenPROM mandatory for PCI devices |
| 13:37:09 | prpplague | erikm: btw, you want diffs sent to you exactly as described at the end of the readme right? |
| 13:37:37 | erikm | prpplague: yeah, unified diff is the easiest to read |
| 13:37:54 | seletz | same as for kernel diffs i suppose. |
| 13:38:08 | erikm | prpplague: -u == unified, -r == recurse through directories, -N == also new files |
| 13:38:39 | erikm | prpplague: be sure to run "make distclean" in both trees, or otherwise diff will also include backup files and object files |
| 13:39:04 | seletz | well, guys. I'm off again now. (house-keeping, as i said :( ) |
| 13:39:10 | erikm | bye |
| 13:39:16 | prpplague | that was my next question..., could you hear the squeak gears? |
| 13:39:26 | prpplague | later seletz |
| 13:39:45 | seletz | bye all! |
| 13:39:51 | erikm | sqeak gears? |
| 13:40:21 | erikm | prpplague: btw, it's ok if you only send the diff to me, I know you'll send it anyway :) |
| 13:43:15 | prpplague | erikm: i'm new to the collabrative work, i'm used to being the only one to use my "bastardized" code |
| 13:46:36 | prpplague | bbiaf |
| 14:02:51 | prpplague | is back, like a bad case athlete's foot |
| 15:29:08 | Russ | do people try to make us laugh on linux-arm? |
| 15:30:42 | prpplague | the mailing list? |
| 15:31:30 | prpplague | Russ: you talking about the winblozes ce question? |
| 15:40:16 | Russ | ya |
| 15:41:21 | prpplague | yes, one made me laugh this morning, almost choked on my orange juice |
| 15:54:15 | sammy | hello all ... |
| 15:55:55 | prpplague | howdy sammy |
| 15:56:20 | prpplague | making or breaking good code today? |
| 15:58:04 | sammy | nope , still reading ;-| |
| 15:59:06 | prpplague | sammy: me too, pcmcia driver stuff is a nightmare |
| 16:02:08 | sammy | cheer up : ) |
| 16:09:15 | seletz | y |
| 16:09:26 | seletz | hi all! |
| 16:41:52 | erikm | re |
| 16:42:26 | seletz | erikm: hi erik. |
| 16:43:49 | seletz | erikm: did a little code-browsing via sf & web-cvs. Looks to me if blob and diag are completely different objects, and thus cannot be installed at the same time, right? |
| 16:46:03 | erikm | seletz: they are different objects, yes |
| 16:46:13 | erikm | seletz: you download diag as if it is a kernel |
| 16:46:38 | seletz | erikm: ah, that's different. |
| 16:46:54 | erikm | seletz: but they share quite some code |
| 16:47:05 | seletz | erikm: this way everything is ok. :)) |
| 16:47:47 | erikm | seletz: btw, shoot if you have a better name for diag :) |
| 16:47:58 | seletz | erikm: hmm. quite some time lag here .... my server is brin.openprojects.net |
| 16:48:33 | seletz | erikm: diag is fine IMHO. nice & short |
| 16:48:43 | erikm | hmm, yeah. brin is in .au |
| 16:49:19 | seletz | erikm: ugh. cant do dig or host or nslookup un my mac :(( |
| 16:49:37 | seletz | erikm: some public server in nl? |
| 16:49:39 | erikm | try nl.linux.org aka merril.openprojects.net. it's very well connected to the dutch university network, which has a very good connectivity to the amsterdam internet exchange |
| 16:50:10 | seletz | part blob |
| 16:52:23 | seletz_at_home | well, here i am. |
| 16:52:49 | erikm | better like that? |
| 16:53:00 | sammy | is back |
| 16:53:03 | seletz_ | hmmm. ping |
| 16:53:29 | seletz_ | say pong :) |
| 16:53:35 | erikm | oh, sorry |
| 16:53:37 | erikm | pong |
| 16:53:40 | seletz_ | :) |
| 16:53:44 | seletz_ | good. |
| 16:54:12 | erikm | sammy: shouldn't you be sleeping? ;) |
| 16:56:09 | seletz_ | erikm: any plans to put diag on a separate flash partition? |
| 16:56:54 | prpplague | seletz_: i.e. >boot diag ? |
| 16:56:57 | prpplague | vs. |
| 16:56:59 | seletz_ | erikm: so blob :: diag :: kernel :: ramdisk :: jffs2 layout (or similar) |
| 16:57:09 | sammy | yep, but I still reading about some MTD and jffs2 's doc , and test my new mointer |
| 16:57:37 | seletz_ | erikm: hmm. want diag reside on jffs2 fsys? |
| 16:57:51 | sammy | < Sync Master 560V TFT > |
| 16:58:32 | erikm | not yet plans to put it in a separate flash partition, but it would be possible as soon as we get proper partitioning support |
| 16:58:43 | erikm | and jffs2 should also be possible |
| 16:58:55 | seletz_ | define "proper" :) |
| 16:59:07 | seletz_ | "working" i suppose :) |
| 16:59:08 | erikm | well, I haven't yet decided what to use |
| 16:59:58 | seletz_ | erikm: how about using i.e. redboot (yuck!) partition scheme? |
| 17:00:26 | seletz_ | erikm: quite an overkill, maybe |
| 17:00:56 | erikm | I haven't looked at it yet. bootldr partition support is also nice, but jamey hicks says they dropped it |
| 17:01:31 | seletz_ | erikm: what, bootldr dropped or partition support? |
| 17:01:54 | erikm | they want to pass the partition information to the kernel with new ATAG nodes, which is a really stupid idea IMHO |
| 17:03:01 | erikm | seletz_: I'm not sure if they dropped it. looking in the bootldr CVS tree it looks like they didn't |
| 17:03:30 | seletz_ | erikm: agreed. flash should look more like a block dev.... those nodes get really bloated. rmk agreed about that? |
| 17:04:44 | erikm | well, rmk didn't get a patch from jamey yet, so he didn't complain yet |
| 17:04:56 | erikm | a patch for new nodes, that is. |
| 17:05:06 | seletz_ | erikm: oh. lets see :) |
| 17:06:13 | erikm | seletz_: are you subscribed to linux-arm-kernel? |
| 17:06:14 | prpplague | seletz_: the ELF board from inhand has a nice partitioning scheme, IMHO |
| 17:06:40 | seletz_ | erikm: well, of course. |
| 17:07:03 | erikm | seletz_: ok, just read the rant I send to l-a-k sunday afternoon |
| 17:07:12 | seletz_ | erikm: no way without the help of The List :) |
| 17:08:02 | seletz_ | erikm: well, i'm not in my office now, so tomorrow. I guess its a nice thing to read :) |
| 17:08:22 | erikm | seletz_: here's the URL from the archive: http://lists.arm.linux.org.uk/pipermail/linux-arm-kernel/2001-October/005224.html |
| 17:08:53 | seletz_ | erikm: shame on me. should have thought about that :/ |
| 17:08:58 | seletz_ | looking |
| 17:14:26 | seletz_ | erikm: hmmm. I think the real problem is that one has to store the partition info in some non-volatile memory. Thats flash IMHO. so, they build a parser in the bootloader to read this info, build tags out of it and the kernel does pares this tags and builds the partition info. Nonsense IMHO. Just store it in flash and let one instance do the whole work. Kernel is the one instance (and the only one) that can do the whole work. |
| 17:15:05 | seletz_ | erikm: correct? |
| 17:15:31 | erikm | exactly my point |
| 17:15:49 | seletz_ | erikm: then i understood it :) |
| 17:16:33 | prpplague | i'm a little slower, but i got the same |
| 17:17:12 | seletz_ | erikm: btw, rmk is always quite funny to read: "Please explain in detail!" Reminds me always on certain teachers :)) |
| 17:17:49 | seletz_ | erikm: of course __not__ when you are to explain :P |
| 17:18:43 | erikm | seletz_: well, his experiences with the handhelds.org patches are not too good |
| 17:19:03 | erikm | seletz_: they usually code before they think |
| 17:19:29 | seletz_ | erikm: ugh. better not do that with rmk twice ... |
| 17:19:55 | seletz_ | erikm: did you met him in real life once? |
| 17:20:57 | erikm | seletz_: yes, we met in new york januari this year |
| 17:21:14 | prpplague | erikm: what is it about the redboot partitoning that people don't like? |
| 17:22:44 | erikm | seletz_: we == rmk, nico, phil blundell, john dorsey, ralph siemsen, /me, jeff sutherland |
| 17:23:12 | erikm | prpplague: I don't know, haven't looked at it yet |
| 17:23:35 | prpplague | seletz_: what about you? |
| 17:24:02 | erikm | prpplague: but I can imagine dwmw2 and rmk would like blob to use an existing partitioning format instead of inventing its own |
| 17:24:16 | erikm | prpplague: unless there is a very good reason to do it, of course |
| 17:24:56 | prpplague | erikm: yes i'm not big on re-inventing the wheel either |
| 17:28:16 | prpplague | i'm off to lunch, before i hit the pcmcia stuff again |
| 17:31:06 | sammy | night all ^_^ ... |
| 17:33:30 | seletz_ | prpplague: sorry, phone. well, IMHO redboot is a big bunch of code. Horribly code. Full of macros of the worst form. No makefiles. arm-elf gnu compiler needed to compile it. Thats one reason. |
| 17:34:03 | erikm | seletz_: well, even rmk didn't manage to compile redboot, so... |
| 17:34:38 | seletz_ | prpplague: and the partition scheme sound quite complex, too. they have partitions, config areas, redboot backup areas and so on. Who needs that? |
| 17:36:16 | seletz_ | erikm: i got it to compile, but my god, what a mess. i t seems that you need to have a windows configurator (or use a poory supported wxwindows clone) to configure packages (or you hack CML2 configs by hand). and you have to use arm-elf-gcc. |
| 17:38:05 | seletz_ | what i think what we need is quite a simle directory-like block of start/stop offsets, possibly with description. just like the hard-coded partitions in the kernel. perhaps even those structs. |
| 17:38:25 | seletz_ | s/simle/simple/g |
| 17:41:13 | seletz_ | i do'nt know if we need some sort of free-block list to be able to delete partitions. On one kind of system there should IMHO one kind of partition layout. But perhaps thats a too simple view. |
| 17:42:14 | erikm | seletz_: well, the bootldr partition table layout didn't look too bad |
| 17:42:38 | erikm | seletz_: it's basically a linked list |
| 17:42:40 | seletz_ | erikm: maybe we should just "grab" it. |
| 17:43:04 | seletz_ | erikm: linked list of occupied blocks or partitions? |
| 17:43:12 | erikm | linked list of partitions |
| 17:43:19 | erikm | I'll ask rmk what he thinks |
| 17:43:32 | seletz_ | erikm: hmm. why not use the same structs as the kernel? |
| 17:43:50 | erikm | seletz_: you mean the struct al viro just wants to change? ;) |
| 17:44:29 | seletz_ | erikm: i dont know, i mean those hard-coded example structs in the partition support code. |
| 17:51:49 | erikm | hey Russ|werk |
| 17:53:24 | Russ|werk | hello |
| 18:10:56 | erikm | seletz_: for a particular bad example of some code from handhelds.org CVS, have a look at this patch: |
| 18:11:05 | erikm | http://www.arm.linux.org.uk/developer/patches/?action=viewpatch&id=597/1 |
| 18:11:32 | erikm | a PCMCIA driver that depends on... MTD??? |
| 18:27:30 | erikm | hmm, that must have been the most busy day for blob CVS ever: 83 CVS changes yesterday :) |
| 18:28:22 | prpplague | erikm: i see that as a sign that blob is rapidly evolving |
| 18:29:10 | erikm | well, it needed a cleanup anyway. at least in the include directory |
| 18:33:31 | seletz_ | back and looking at patch |
| 18:34:37 | prpplague | seletz_: i read your statements regarding redboot partitioning |
| 18:37:22 | seletz_ | prpplague: sorry, talket to you while you are at lunch, bad behavior :) |
| 18:38:05 | prpplague | np |
| 18:38:16 | seletz_ | erikm: well. strange. what was the reason for this dependency? problem between the ears or what? |
| 18:38:56 | erikm | seletz_: there is some flash memory in that device |
| 18:39:20 | prpplague | seletz_ / erikm : here is the pdf on the elf which has a section on page 29 about the flash partition they use - http://www.abcsinc.com/small-linux/elf.pdf |
| 18:39:43 | erikm | seletz_: but that still doesn't justify the use of MTD in a PCMCIA driver, of course |
| 18:39:46 | erikm | wgets |
| 18:41:43 | prpplague | hmm, that patch appears to break several of the omnimeter/elf pcmcia items |
| 18:43:02 | erikm | prpplague: structure looks nice, but unfortunately they put it at the start of a flash block |
| 18:43:30 | erikm | prpplague: which means that you can't point linux to and tell "this is a jffs2 filesystem" |
| 18:43:46 | seletz_ | prpplague: hmm. _very_ lowlevel. Identifying contents of blocks from assembly language mnemonics ... |
| 18:44:39 | prpplague | what can i say, i'm a K.I.S.S. kinda guy... |
| 18:45:08 | erikm | prpplague: well, they could have made it a lot simpler |
| 18:46:40 | seletz_ | erik: what about tehe structs i mentioned? Are that those structs to be changed? |
| 18:46:56 | erikm | seletz_: sorry, let me have a look |
| 18:47:04 | erikm | seletz_: could you point me to the correct file? |
| 18:47:22 | prpplague | erikm: by putting it at the end, so that programs would not have to be linked oddly, and by cutting it down to name,size,type of data,cksum? |
| 18:47:37 | seletz_ | erikm: hmm. give me a moment, have to web-cvs it ... |
| 18:48:06 | erikm | prpplague: by putting it in a separate flash block |
| 18:48:19 | erikm | prpplague: so it doesn't clutter with the contents of the partitions |
| 18:49:05 | erikm | seletz_: are you talking about the linux kernel, or about bootldr CVS? |
| 18:49:38 | seletz_ | erikm: linux kernel. there is somewhere a partition map hardcoded for each system. |
| 18:50:37 | seletz_ | erikm: hmmm. sf doesnt have web-cvs for linux kernel ??? searching .... |
| 18:50:52 | erikm | seletz_: lxr.linux.no |
| 18:51:07 | erikm | seletz_: do you know the name of the structure? |
| 18:51:36 | erikm | seletz_: cause in that case lxrbot can tell you which file to use :) |
| 18:51:56 | erikm | lxrbot: whereis kmalloc? |
| 18:51:58 | lxrbot | kmalloc is Defined as a function in: mm/slab.c, line 1534 Defined as a function prototype in: include/linux/slab.h, line 60 include/asm-i386/pgalloc.h, line 23 arch/ia64/sn/sn1/synergy.c, line 30 Defined as a preprocessor macro in: include/asm-s390/debug.h, line 259 include/asm-s390x/debug.h, line 259 Referenced (in 1038 files total) in: fs/read_write.c, line 230 fs/super.c, 5 times fs/pipe.c, line 451 fs/select.c, 2 times fs/proc/kcore.c, 2 times fs/proc |
| 18:52:01 | erikm | see? |
| 18:52:01 | lxrbot | i don't know, erikm |
| 18:52:15 | erikm | lxrbot: yeah, good. nice bot. have a botsnack |
| 18:52:16 | lxrbot | thanks erikm :) |
| 18:52:26 | seletz_ | erikm: ??? no, sorry. im not that geek yet ... :) |
| 18:52:44 | erikm | lxrbot: is a bot I run on #kernelnewbies |
| 18:52:49 | seletz_ | stunned :) |
| 18:53:06 | erikm | it's a frontend for lxr.linux.no |
| 18:53:30 | seletz_ | lxrbot: whereis partition_map |
| 18:53:31 | lxrbot | partition_map is Not used |
| 18:54:09 | erikm | JALH cleaned up the perl code, I run it on my desktop |
| 18:54:39 | seletz_ | cursing "why dont have the source here f*** s***" |
| 18:55:11 | erikm | hands seletz_ ssh so he can connect to a linux box |
| 18:56:50 | seletz_ | erikm: wellllll yes. I cant as of now. i currently only have a office at one of my customers. soon i'll have a office for me alone & a linux box on dls all day&night long. ARGH. |
| 18:58:11 | seletz_ | downloading source tarballs |
| 19:00:47 | seletz_ | UARGH. de.kernel.org offers 4.5 kb/s to me .... OK. We'll do it tomorrow, ok? |
| 19:00:53 | erikm | ok |
| 19:02:41 | seletz_ | erikm: well, thinking of it i _could_ bypass my not-so-gifted sysadmin and change some routes & see if i could get ssh up & running tomorrow. |
| 19:02:57 | erikm | hehe |
| 19:03:25 | seletz_ | erikm: yes. that's exactly what i'll do tomorrow. This sort of things make me angry. |
| 19:03:34 | erikm | seletz_: like the not-so-brilliant sysadmins in the marriot hotel in new york :) |
| 19:04:04 | erikm | seletz_: pop and smtp were free, all other ports were firewalled unless you paid |
| 19:04:32 | seletz_ | erikm: :^D ipfwadm redirect |
| 19:04:54 | erikm | seletz_: except that they forgot to firewall port 22.... so I tunneled everything over ssh to my desktop at the university :) |
| 19:05:13 | seletz_ | erikm: sweet lovely VPN, eh? |
| 19:05:18 | seletz_ | :) |
| 19:05:31 | erikm | yeah |
| 19:06:22 | erikm | and what they also didn't know is that we actually connected *two* machines to the same ethernet port :) |
| 19:06:32 | seletz_ | erikm: to my shame i must admit that i never used ssh like that, got to try it out ... never had the need, tough. |
| 19:06:34 | erikm | masquerading is nice :) |
| 19:07:20 | seletz_ | erikm: yes, nice. Deutsche Telekom also does not know of my boxen running behind one DSL cable ... |
| 19:08:08 | erikm | I usually try to tunnel most things over ssh to my desktop. pop, smtp, irc, http (to the proxy on my desktop) |
| 19:08:28 | seletz_ | erikm: thats a nice thing about those macs: using an airport wireles lan is just easy and works :) sitting in my flat besides my girfriend and chatting & surfing all wireless & mobile ... |
| 19:08:42 | erikm | *nod* |
| 19:08:59 | erikm | I use a lucent orinoco card with my laptop |
| 19:09:06 | seletz_ | erikm: why do you tunnel? security? |
| 19:09:13 | erikm | yes |
| 19:09:31 | erikm | but also to circumvent stupid firewalls |
| 19:09:49 | erikm | (which was necessary at IBM watson) |
| 19:09:50 | seletz_ | erikm: hmmm. your'e at a university, right? no big chef watching, yes? |
| 19:10:31 | erikm | seletz_: no. it pays less, but I get a lot more freedom |
| 19:11:37 | seletz_ | erikm: btw, what do you need in nl to get an PhD? is an MSc needed? |
| 19:12:33 | erikm | officially nothing is needed. but an MSc surely helps |
| 19:13:38 | seletz_ | erikm: hmmm. in germany quite so. "oficially" but practically when you dont have one you have to start over at an univerity. |
| 19:14:34 | seletz_ | erikm: I "only" got an "Dipl.-Ing.(FH)" The (FH) is the problem. |
| 19:15:33 | seletz_ | erikm: means 9 semester computer science at an university compared to 12. |
| 19:15:42 | erikm | we have the same over here: FH == TH. |
| 19:16:40 | seletz_ | erikm: so, do you get an PhD with an "TH" degree? (after additional studying, o'course) |
| 19:16:41 | prpplague | wishes he could have gone to school for cs |
| 19:17:33 | seletz_ | prpplague: well, i actually _learned_ not mutch about cs. i learned everything "on the job". |
| 19:18:02 | seletz_ | prpplague: learned to learn, so to say. |
| 19:18:28 | erikm | seletz_: same for me. I did electrical engineering, but that's a lot of CS nowadays as well |
| 19:20:17 | prpplague | i do ok, i'm head of r&d and make about $75k, but i wonder how much better i could be with some more training |
| 19:22:26 | seletz_ | prpplague: You're in USA, are you? |
| 19:22:49 | prpplague | yes |
| 19:23:14 | seletz_ | prpplague: $75k, how mutch tax rate do you pay on average in USA? |
| 19:23:33 | erikm | seletz_: a *lot* less than we do over here |
| 19:23:47 | prpplague | i pay about 35% |
| 19:24:21 | erikm | seletz_: but OTOH, everyday is twice as expensive, and you don't have the social security we have over here in europe |
| 19:24:22 | seletz_ | erikm: hmmm. 36%, well, that comes close to my almost 50% :/ |
| 19:25:12 | seletz_ | erikm: i always thought its cheaper to life in USA. Food, accomodation and such. |
| 19:25:22 | Russ|werk | just add 7% state sales tax and it does |
| 19:25:28 | prpplague | only in certain areas |
| 19:25:44 | erikm | seletz_: certainly not. what does 1 liter of milk cost in .de? |
| 19:25:45 | prpplague | cheaper to live that is |
| 19:25:45 | Russ|werk | its pretty cheap living in phoenix |
| 19:26:03 | prpplague | i'm in east texas and its dirt cheap |
| 19:26:15 | Russ|werk | apartment for $800, condo for $1200, good home for 120k |
| 19:26:19 | seletz_ | well, we pay 16% sales tax, and milk is DM1 to DM 2 |
| 19:26:39 | Russ|werk | and gas for $1.30/gal |
| 19:26:42 | erikm | seletz_: ok, double that and you have the US price |
| 19:26:52 | Russ|werk | how much is a DM? |
| 19:26:54 | prpplague | Russ: i bought a brand new 4bedroom/2bath brick on a 1 acre of land for $62k |
| 19:27:07 | seletz_ | erikm: ugh. DM rougly 1/2 $ |
| 19:27:26 | Russ|werk | sounds about right for a liter of milk |
| 19:27:59 | seletz_ | hmmmmm. $62k for a home with 4 bedrooms? How far away to the next town? |
| 19:28:36 | Russ|werk | san jose though.... |
| 19:29:12 | prpplague | seletz_: about 15 miles |
| 19:29:19 | erikm | Russ|werk: or NYC area... |
| 19:30:53 | seletz_ | well, well. as an indep software developer i earn rougly the same, but pay much more tax, and pay about $1000 for a flat with 120m2 in a decent little town. 54% tax is the maximum in de. (insurance, sales tax etc. not included) |
| 19:32:44 | seletz_ | what about the NYC area? I suppose thats a different story altogether? |
| 19:33:34 | erikm | it's quite expensive as well |
| 19:34:44 | seletz_ | oh my, one "there is no such thing as a free lunch" i keep saying to myself .... :^) |
| 19:34:58 | seletz_ | s/one//g |
| 19:36:14 | seletz_ | well, I've to get some sleep now (and a quick game of GT3 :) |
| 19:36:25 | seletz_ | bye all! |
| 19:36:31 | erikm | bye seletz |
| 19:36:37 | prpplague | later |
| 19:42:51 | erikm | eeeek, somebody got so insane as to put both SDRAM and EDORAM in the same system |
| 19:43:16 | Russ|werk | how's that working for them? |
| 19:43:27 | erikm | it isn't :) |
| 19:43:43 | erikm | the SA1110 supports it in theory |
| 19:44:30 | ed__ | you know as shitty as rambus is...having an interface would make building these boards alot easier |
| 19:44:57 | erikm | but it's a lot of juggling to get the memory timings right |
| 19:46:11 | erikm | wonders what the correct register jargon was for rambus |
| 19:46:33 | ed__ | register? |
| 19:46:35 | ed__ | theregister? |
| 19:46:40 | erikm | that one, yes |
| 19:46:43 | ed__ | ahh gotcha |
| 19:46:47 | ed__ | ummm i don't remember |
| 19:46:51 | ed__ | i'm sure they called them lots of things |
| 19:46:54 | erikm | it wasn't dramurai |
| 19:47:09 | ed__ | dramuarai is everyone else (asian chip makers) |
| 19:47:28 | erikm | *nod* |
| 19:48:26 | ed__ | it'd be cool to have the main bus be firewire |
| 19:53:41 | erikm | found it: rambust |
| 19:58:38 | ed__ | hahah |
| 19:59:08 | erikm | http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/28/16586.html |
| 19:59:55 | ed__ | awesome |
| 20:29:04 | BZFlag | erikm: looks like I'm getting a paying contract I'll use blob for. less that a month or so till it starts |
| 20:29:23 | BZFlag | a sa based handheld with integrated fold out keyboard. |
| 20:29:36 | erikm | ah, cool! |
| 20:29:49 | prpplague | the sharp? |
| 20:30:00 | BZFlag | they want tftp updates, so I'll start hacking on that. no, not sharp. |
| 20:30:37 | BZFlag | we hope to show/announce it at CES in January. |
| 20:30:44 | prpplague | ahh |
| 20:30:48 | erikm | BZFlag: I think we first want parameter block support |
| 20:30:55 | Russ|werk | BZFlag: I would start from scratch on tftp |
| 20:31:29 | Russ|werk | erikm: the base is there |
| 20:32:30 | BZFlag | I think I agree. I'm just excited to actually have a paying customer. ;-) |
| 20:32:47 | Russ|werk | policy just needs to be hammered out |
| 20:32:58 | erikm | Russ|werk: policy like what? |
| 20:33:33 | erikm | Russ|werk: I'm trying to clean up as much as possible, and this weekend's hack session did quite some good |
| 20:34:52 | BZFlag | cool. well I'll keep you posted. should be signed next week. |
| 20:34:57 | erikm | ok |
| 20:35:09 | erikm | btw, I put some features on the blob sourceforge page |
| 20:35:26 | erikm | feature requests, that is |
| 20:54:01 | erikm | goes zzz |
| 20:54:02 | erikm | bye |
| 20:57:50 | prpplague | Russ|werk: looks like the problem was in my uclibc build |
| 20:58:39 | Russ|werk | huh |
| 20:59:17 | prpplague | Russ|werk: i guess steped on something while i was playing around |
| 20:59:22 | Russ|werk | in what way? |
| 21:02:26 | prpplague | i've got the libs from the tuxscreen rootfs and the libs i built from source, i can only image i got something overwriten |
| 21:05:57 | prpplague | Russ|werk: now that i've got the file over on the unit it won't execute |
| 21:06:04 | prpplague | hmm |
| 21:06:32 | Russ|werk | could be is packed full of x86'isms |
| 21:06:55 | Russ|werk | alignment issues, etc |
| 21:07:41 | prpplague | Russ|werk: i'm sure i've done some wrote, this is hodge-podge code anyway |
| 21:08:49 | Russ|werk | what does it fil with? |
| 21:08:53 | Russ|werk | er, fail with |
| 21:10:24 | prpplague | dump_cis: file or directory not found |
| 21:11:16 | prpplague | dump_cis: no such file or directory |
| 21:11:40 | prpplague | its executable and i'm starting with #./dump_cis |
| 21:12:04 | Russ|werk | oh, it can't find ld |
| 21:12:12 | Russ|werk | strings dump_cis | head |
| 21:14:59 | prpplague | Russ|werk: did that, what am i looking for? |
| 21:18:03 | Russ|werk | the ld-uclibc.so or whatever |
| 21:20:59 | prpplague | none listed |
| 22:05:15 | prpplague | Russ|werk: seems i can compile this program against a fresh build of uclibc but not the libs on the rootfs of tuxscreen |
| 22:05:47 | Russ|werk | what do you mean by against the libs on the rootfs of the tuxscreen |
| 22:06:04 | Russ|werk | and do you have the string /lib/ld-uClibc.so.0 is the compiled file |
| 22:10:02 | prpplague | yes, the /lib/ld-uClibc.so.0 is in the string, i downloaded the rootfs from tuxscreen.net and tried to use the libs from there so that i'd have common libs |
| 22:11:04 | Russ|werk | what do you mean by "use" |
| 22:12:41 | prpplague | Russ|werk: i place the tuxscreen rootfs libs in the dir where the uClibc would link to instead of the one i built from source |
| 22:13:13 | Russ|werk | probably not too wise... |
| 22:13:31 | Russ|werk | does the /lib on your tuxscreen contain /lib/ld-uClibc.so.0? |
| 22:13:32 | prpplague | didn't think so, i was just experimenting |
| 22:13:45 | prpplague | yes |
| 22:25:53 | Russ|werk | hmmm |
| 22:26:04 | Russ|werk | I would do it the other way around |
| 22:27:20 | prpplague | use the fresh build on the rootfs? |
| 22:28:22 | Russ|werk | get the libs you are building with into the tuxscreen |
| 22:29:38 | prpplague | that means i'll have to re-compile busybox,tinylogin,etc. |