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| 00:27.42 | rpifan | hi |
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| 01:13.51 | Kobaz | sooooo |
| 01:14.02 | Kobaz | is there a way to turn off connected line updates on a peer entirely, in chan_sip |
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| 05:00.17 | igcewieling | cackles evilly as he watches robo calls getting CallerID set to "Scam Likely" before being passed to the customer. I shall rule the world! |
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| 10:12.01 | *** topic/#asterisk is #asterisk The Open Source PBX and Telephony Platform (asterisk.org) -=- LTS: 13.33.0 (2020/04/30) 16.10.0 (2020/04/30) Standard: 17.4.0 (2020/04/20); DAHDI: 3.0.0 (2018/11/15); libpri 1.6.0 (2017/01/27) -=- Wiki: wiki.asterisk.org -=- Code of Conduct: bit.ly/1hH6P22 |
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| 14:12.58 | *** join/#asterisk eXistenZ (~pectic@bzq-79-180-212-75.red.bezeqint.net) |
| 14:14.05 | eXistenZ | Hello guys, I'm looking for an SIP-based intercom. I'm looking for an SIP-based intercom (audio only). I've narrowed my choices to Grandstream GS-GDS3705 (~$200), Algo 8201 (~$400), Akuvox R23C (~$350) VIKING E-30-IP-EWP (~$400). What do you think/recommend? |
| 14:14.22 | eXistenZ | *sorry for repeating |
| 14:15.17 | Kobaz | viking |
| 14:15.23 | Kobaz | can't go wrong with viking or algo |
| 14:16.12 | *** part/#asterisk inode64 (war@2600:4040:400d:1d00::f7aa) |
| 14:16.33 | eXistenZ | Kobaz, GS isn't comparable? |
| 14:16.44 | Kobaz | who knows.. grandstream has a history of being..... crappy |
| 14:17.08 | Kobaz | the newer stuff isn't as bad, but they aren't well known for quality, so much as being cheap |
| 14:17.30 | eXistenZ | Kobaz, thanks! |
| 14:17.55 | eXistenZ | Kobaz, on eBay it says "Viking requires end user to call technical support to obtain their RA" What is RA? |
| 14:18.39 | Kobaz | could be the remote access relay |
| 14:18.43 | Kobaz | like the door strike system? |
| 14:19.09 | Kobaz | https://www.vikingproductstore.com/Remote-Access/ |
| 14:19.30 | Kobaz | depends what you're using it for |
| 14:19.44 | Kobaz | if you only care about the phone part, you can ignore any door lock / door strike systems |
| 14:20.27 | eXistenZ | Kobaz, I think door control might be of use. |
| 14:21.57 | eXistenZ | Kobaz, Do I need a special device to enable door access |
| 14:22.16 | Kobaz | what kind of door and door strike do you have |
| 14:22.29 | eXistenZ | I have a metal door. |
| 14:22.37 | Kobaz | Do you have an electronic strike? |
| 14:22.37 | eXistenZ | It's outdoors |
| 14:22.44 | eXistenZ | Not yet, I still haven't purcahsed anything |
| 14:22.48 | eXistenZ | Planning to though |
| 14:22.51 | Kobaz | Yeah, so you'll need all that |
| 14:23.01 | Kobaz | you'll need to get an electronic strike matching your door setup |
| 14:23.42 | eXistenZ | Any other devices than the electronic strike |
| 14:23.47 | Kobaz | and then get the specs on that, they are usually like 12v dc |
| 14:24.09 | eXistenZ | Thanks |
| 14:24.59 | Kobaz | and then you'll need like an angry controller |
| 14:25.01 | Kobaz | entry* |
| 14:26.03 | Kobaz | there's usually an ip part and an analog part that connects to the door |
| 14:26.17 | Kobaz | some ip door phones have the entry controller built in |
| 14:26.32 | Kobaz | https://www.vikingelectronics.com/wp-content/uploads/documents/product_manual/E-10-20-30-32-IP.pdf |
| 14:26.40 | Kobaz | scroll down to page 4, it'll show you the wiring |
| 14:28.18 | Kobaz | notice how the grandstream is a plastic box that someone can smash off the wall? and the viking is a flush mount metal plate with a long life resessed button on it? |
| 14:29.24 | Kobaz | so yeah, heh... that's the difference |
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| 15:21.02 | drmessano | eXistenZ: Is this resi or commercial> |
| 15:29.47 | eXistenZ | drmessano, resi |
| 15:30.12 | drmessano | Why not just buy any of the dozen or so residential restrofit kits for your deadbolt |
| 15:30.28 | eXistenZ | drmessano, restro? |
| 15:30.30 | drmessano | Unless you just have money to burn on an electric strike |
| 15:30.37 | drmessano | retrofit |
| 15:30.42 | drmessano | FFS |
| 15:31.25 | eXistenZ | Kobaz, the VIKING E-30-IP-EWP supports door control I guess? |
| 15:31.41 | eXistenZ | drmessano, you mean to give up on an electric strike? |
| 15:31.51 | drmessano | JFC |
| 15:31.59 | drmessano | You have two options here |
| 15:32.11 | drmessano | Something that retrofits the deadbolt |
| 15:32.25 | drmessano | or the parts, labor, and wiring for an electric strike |
| 15:32.52 | eXistenZ | drmessano, Interesting idea |
| 15:33.11 | eXistenZ | Do you know of any good ones? |
| 15:33.29 | eXistenZ | drmessano, are they controllable by the doorbell? |
| 15:33.34 | drmessano | August, Schlage, Kwikset all make them |
| 15:33.45 | drmessano | Controllable by the doorbell? |
| 15:33.56 | drmessano | Like push the doorbell and it opens" |
| 15:33.59 | drmessano | ? |
| 15:34.15 | eXistenZ | drmessano, can be controlled by some smart app? I have HA at home |
| 15:34.42 | drmessano | Ok, pay careful attention to what I am saying to you |
| 15:35.00 | drmessano | We seem to go around in circles every time I try to detail something to you |
| 15:35.13 | drmessano | You have a deadbolt, standard residential fit |
| 15:35.17 | drmessano | They make kits |
| 15:35.36 | eXistenZ | drmessano, I got your point actually |
| 15:35.45 | drmessano | Usually either replace the deadbolt mechanism, or you remove the handle from the back of the deadbolt and attach this device |
| 15:35.53 | drmessano | They are bluetooth, wifi, or both |
| 15:35.54 | eXistenZ | drmessano, But I asked whether these retrofit kits might support HA |
| 15:36.06 | drmessano | Please stop talking |
| 15:36.24 | drmessano | They either have their own apps, or some cloud thing that works with IFTTT |
| 15:36.45 | eXistenZ | drmessano, Thanks alot |
| 15:36.45 | drmessano | Bing search for "smart lock" |
| 15:37.09 | eXistenZ | drmessano, I'll look into that. |
| 15:37.25 | eXistenZ | drmessano, Are you in favor of the Viking doorbell as well? |
| 15:37.30 | drmessano | No |
| 15:37.59 | eXistenZ | What do you think |
| 15:38.00 | drmessano | I want something smart and cloudy, not something SIP/hardwired |
| 15:38.08 | drmessano | I think SIP/hardwired is archaic |
| 15:38.20 | drmessano | You have HA but you want a retrofit for 60 year old tech |
| 15:38.26 | drmessano | Still dont get it |
| 15:41.02 | eXistenZ | drmessano, My problem is that it's on the road. In my neighborhood I cannot get some plastic cloudy thing. I have Nest Hello near the inner door. I just cannot install something lightweight on the outside (on the road actually) |
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| 15:52.55 | drmessano | eXistenZ: Youre the one limiting your options |
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| 17:32.12 | igcewieling | https://www.algosolutions.com/ has some interesting door related devices, but it doesn't sound like they would work for you. |
| 17:38.59 | eXistenZ | igcewieling, why |
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| 17:44.43 | igcewieling | eXistenZ: it sounds like you want some sort of "smart app", which none of these have, they are plain SIP devices. |
| 17:45.18 | igcewieling | On the other hand, if your requirements change to something more realistic, they might be useful. |
| 17:45.34 | eXistenZ | igcewieling, More realistic? |
| 17:46.51 | igcewieling | Being allowed to install stuff on the outside of the house. I assume you have some sort of fascist home owners association which prohibits changes to the outside of the building. |
| 17:48.09 | eXistenZ | igcewieling, I'm allowed to install stuff on the outside. |
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| 18:17.56 | igcewieling | "(11:41:02 AM) eXistenZ: drmessano, My problem is that it's on the road. In my neighborhood I cannot get some plastic cloudy thing." |
| 18:18.30 | eXistenZ | igcewieling, The problem is I need it vandal-resistant |
| 18:18.43 | eXistenZ | I need something sturdy |
| 18:19.08 | eXistenZ | Most Ring-based/Google-based are plastic made not really vandalism-resistant |
| 18:20.02 | Samot | Who says your metal box is vandal-resistant? |
| 18:20.08 | Samot | I can spray paint it. |
| 18:20.16 | Samot | I can bash it with my metal baseball bat |
| 18:20.23 | Samot | Or a hammer. |
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| 18:22.02 | igcewieling | Ah, then the Algo stuff might be good for you. |
| 18:23.31 | eXistenZ | igcewieling, The Algo 8201 is ~$400, and the GS ~$200. Is the price difference worth it? |
| 18:24.54 | igcewieling | GS = grandstream ? |
| 18:25.22 | igcewieling | eXistenZ: no idea, vandal resistant is expensive. |
| 18:25.48 | eXistenZ | igcewieling, this one https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07HNNB6MV/ |
| 18:29.06 | igcewieling | Grandstream is like my ex-wife. Maybe she is a sane, decent person these days, but I still don't ever want to see her again. People say Grandstream products are good these days, but I still won't use them because of their horrible older models of phones. |
| 18:32.32 | igcewieling | Where I work, we use Polycom SIP phones. If we need wireless phone, we use a vTech SIP/DECT or whatever wireless phones Polycom has not discontinued. If we need overhead paging we use Viking. If we need other weird sip stuff, we use Algo. |
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| 18:49.38 | eXistenZ | igcewieling, What do you have at home |
| 18:53.41 | drmessano | If you have that much of a problem with vandals, why are you putting even a $200 device out there? |
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| 18:56.20 | igcewieling | eXistenZ: polycom |
| 18:56.46 | igcewieling | drmessano: They have indoor and non-vandal products too. |
| 18:58.55 | drmessano | Why was that directed at me? |
| 18:59.26 | eXistenZ | drmessano, Is that too much? |
| 19:00.04 | drmessano | $1 is too much for something I am anticipating getting hit with a bat |
| 19:00.36 | drmessano | So let me get this right |
| 19:00.42 | drmessano | It needs to be SIP |
| 19:00.48 | drmessano | Work with your HA |
| 19:01.11 | drmessano | and can take, what I can only assume are frequent attacks from vandals |
| 19:01.59 | Samot | We're talking Home Automation when saying HA, right? |
| 19:02.36 | drmessano | Yeah |
| 19:03.09 | Samot | K |
| 19:04.02 | drmessano | eXistenZ: You probably definitely want to skip the electric door strike then |
| 19:04.11 | drmessano | and look at August or Schlage |
| 19:04.50 | drmessano | Because if you are so prone to vandalism, I can shit kick the hell out of your door with the electric strike and make that magnet my bitch |
| 19:05.05 | eXistenZ | drmessano, It's not that type of vandalism |
| 19:05.16 | eXistenZ | but I guess some people will keep pressing the buttons |
| 19:05.25 | drmessano | OMFG |
| 19:05.48 | drmessano | You refuse to use Ring or August or anything smart because of ding-dong-ditch? |
| 19:06.07 | drmessano | JFC.. Im making a reminder to not comment on this any more |
| 19:06.10 | Samot | Wait, that's the vandal? |
| 19:06.56 | eXistenZ | drmessano, My problem with Ring is its internal battery. This is why I have Goole Nest Hello |
| 19:07.08 | drmessano | God damn dude |
| 19:07.15 | drmessano | We talked about that |
| 19:07.17 | eXistenZ | drmessano, https://www.reddit.com/r/Ring/comments/as39zc/ring_doorbell_elite_internal_batterycapacitor/ |
| 19:07.18 | Samot | How far is this from the house? |
| 19:07.23 | drmessano | RING PRO IS POWERED |
| 19:07.27 | Samot | How is it getting powered? |
| 19:07.34 | drmessano | P-O-W-E-R-E-D |
| 19:07.39 | eXistenZ | drmessano, even if its powered. read that article on reddit. |
| 19:07.45 | Samot | How far is this from the house? |
| 19:07.48 | Samot | How is it getting powered? |
| 19:07.51 | drmessano | I fucking OWN THEM |
| 19:07.54 | eXistenZ | Samot, around 20 meters. |
| 19:08.00 | eXistenZ | drmessano, Read that article and then talk |
| 19:08.11 | drmessano | Im not reading some random shit from Reddit |
| 19:08.13 | drmessano | I know how they work |
| 19:08.14 | Samot | And then how will the device be powered? |
| 19:08.44 | eXistenZ | drmessano, <<Unfortunate the batteries are not listed in the specs and designed to be easily replaced considering they will eventually die, accelerated by extreme heat/cold.>> |
| 19:08.57 | drmessano | and that could take YEARS |
| 19:09.15 | eXistenZ | Samot, I can run a cat6 cable and power it with PoE |
| 19:09.18 | drmessano | They are not designed to fail |
| 19:09.53 | drmessano | Honestly I can't believe that shit with that internal memory battery is still making rounds |
| 19:10.01 | drmessano | I was hoiping you misunderstood the power options |
| 19:10.18 | drmessano | Not passing along that BS about the internal battery |
| 19:10.26 | eXistenZ | drmessano, It says that even the Elite Pro, which is PoE powered can die |
| 19:10.44 | drmessano | I dont want to scare you |
| 19:10.59 | drmessano | But MANY of your devices have tiny little batteries in them |
| 19:11.04 | drmessano | Like your laptop, desktop |
| 19:11.12 | drmessano | and years from now, they will die |
| 19:11.29 | Samot | ^^^^^^^ |
| 19:11.34 | Samot | Cellphone, PC, all that |
| 19:11.37 | eXistenZ | Haha |
| 19:11.53 | Zombie | CR2032 are not that hard to replace. |
| 19:12.29 | drmessano | Plus you've been taking this poll across two IRC channels for weeks now. I honestly don't think you have a clue what you're doing |
| 19:12.30 | eXistenZ | drmessano, it's not possible to replace Ring's batteries. |
| 19:12.41 | drmessano | You're looking for someone to come up with a cheap, pluggable option |
| 19:12.55 | drmessano | eXistenZ: I will have replaced my ring before the battery dies |
| 19:13.04 | drmessano | I am aware of this particular FUD |
| 19:13.09 | eXistenZ | drmessano, Not really, eventually I got a Google Nest Hello for the inner door. Now I'm looking for another device for the gate. |
| 19:13.11 | drmessano | NEXT! |
| 19:14.14 | igcewieling | The problem with Ring is that it is an insecure piece of shit and their "work" with local police departments is practically Orwellian |
| 19:14.30 | drmessano | Except its not |
| 19:14.39 | drmessano | More fucking FUD |
| 19:15.20 | Samot | Don't you use the Ring's for the offices? |
| 19:15.21 | drmessano | Insecure because people were using INSECURE, WEAK, REUSED passwords and a lot of people got pwned when someone decided to target their login |
| 19:15.42 | drmessano | and now Ring has 2FA, which hopefully will protect users from themselves |
| 19:15.50 | drmessano | Literally NOTHING insecure about them |
| 19:15.56 | drmessano | Samot: Yes I do |
| 19:16.11 | eXistenZ | igcewieling, Are you against Ring stuff? |
| 19:16.36 | sibiria | why wouldn't you be against having a camera home where you are not the owner of the video stream? |
| 19:16.49 | drmessano | Here we go |
| 19:17.00 | Samot | Strange. |
| 19:17.11 | sibiria | well, right back at you. if you are ok with it then that's just fine |
| 19:17.14 | Samot | All the hotels I have use Samsung based camera solutions... |
| 19:17.15 | drmessano | Out come the luddities and libertarians |
| 19:17.28 | sibiria | luddites? :P |
| 19:17.29 | Samot | All of which come with apps and cloud access so they can see what is happening at the hotel. |
| 19:17.45 | Samot | So, there is an entire market for this. |
| 19:17.47 | sibiria | if anything is counter-productive of progress it's privacy invasion of this sort |
| 19:17.53 | Samot | OK |
| 19:17.56 | drmessano | Got it, thx |
| 19:18.19 | sibiria | i think very few people have a problem with home surveillance. they just want to know who/what is watching |
| 19:18.44 | drmessano | Yep |
| 19:18.59 | sibiria | and with Nest and Ring, it sure isn't just you :) |
| 19:19.43 | Samot | So they have people watching the feeds? |
| 19:19.49 | drmessano | I use Ring because I don't have any desire to build or maintain my own infrastructure for recording and accessing video remotely |
| 19:19.53 | Samot | Or do they just have access to things? |
| 19:20.06 | Samot | This is along the "My phone carrier is listening to my calls" |
| 19:20.11 | Samot | So I need VPNs and TLS |
| 19:20.16 | Samot | Because privacy.. |
| 19:20.29 | drmessano | I use modern solutions because I don't have any time or inclination to VPN into a Zoneminder box I have to maintain |
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| 19:20.36 | Samot | I can assure you, no one at the a LEC is sitting around in a dark room listening to multiple calls. |
| 19:20.48 | sibiria | no; they have access to the stream, but the concern is that nobody knows what they do with customer's streams. i don't think anyone seriously believes that there are personnel actively watching |
| 19:21.03 | sibiria | (except maybe the odd goofball or two) |
| 19:21.58 | Samot | So your comment that with Ring and Nest you're not the only one watching _your_ stream? |
| 19:22.22 | sibiria | there's no Nest/Ring customer whose video feed is private |
| 19:26.45 | sibiria | in the case of Nest people are also concerned about Google's behavior in general, i believe - and it doesn't help that people found out that Nest's camera is always active, and there's always going *some* regular network traffic out from it, even when you explicitly disabled the camera |
| 19:27.18 | sibiria | there's something typically Google about it, and it obviously raised a lot of eyebrowse |
| 19:28.45 | drmessano | Ok, my turn |
| 19:32.07 | drmessano | Typical fucking IRC nonsense. I realize it's popular to assume no one is capable of making their own assessment of convenience + function vs privacy. Fact is, if any of these reddit-esque concerns were actually fully realized, they products would be shunned or some unneccesary govt entity in the US or EU would be all over it. So most of this is hyperbole and reddit experts |
| 19:32.52 | drmessano | If you PERSONALLY want a stack of Pis and to roll your own everything, great. Some of us grew out of that, or have lives and don't have time to Unibomber every process in our lives. |
| 19:33.36 | drmessano | So unless someone has a video of Amazon employees watching my videos, kicking a dog, and setting an American flag on fire, IDGAF |
| 19:33.52 | eXistenZ | lol, little hostile there |
| 19:34.46 | sibiria | you've misunderstood. no one is criticizing you for being OK with the product |
| 19:34.54 | drmessano | Unless someone has VERY real proof of actual HACKING, not *weak passwords*, *password reuse*, or *social engineering*, but actual remote penetration of a device without taking advantage of user stupidity, they are NO HACKABLE |
| 19:34.58 | drmessano | NOT* |
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| 19:35.58 | drmessano | I'm more worried about 60% of the newbs that get on IRC with Asterisk installs than I ever will be a Ring product |
| 19:37.23 | sibiria | i have no comments on the technical security of either of those |
| 19:38.14 | drmessano | and I am far more concerned with my desktop SIP phone being randomly EOLed than I am a fucking internal battery in a Ring. I am absolutely just blow away that so many people are SHOCKED about the SECRET tiny little internal battery |
| 19:38.23 | drmessano | ZOMG what a revelation |
| 19:40.08 | drmessano | IF this were a REAL CONCERN, 1500% certain some enterprising internet person would be selling replacement batteries so you can either repair your old Ring or for some market where people are putting all these dead Rings on eBay, and geeks are repairing them |
| 19:40.24 | drmessano | Trust me, capitalism would be in full effect |
| 19:41.24 | drmessano | eXistenZ: This is how you evaluate products |
| 19:42.14 | drmessano | You find a product, check reviews. Stumble across some shocking flaw like a mystery battery? Ok, if its that bad, who is the guy making money off retrofit kits? Oh, there isn't one? Guess its not a problem |
| 19:42.21 | drmessano | ^ Samot Sound accurate |
| 19:43.58 | drmessano | Issue with remotely exploitable vulns? Someone has a blog post how to wall garden the device then. Because us geeks/hackers love patching around these sort of things. No blog post? No solution on reddit? Huh, must be a non-issue |
| 19:46.01 | drmessano | But man people love being fucking negative about how nothing is secure, nothing is worth buying, using, or risking your life owning. |
| 19:46.13 | Samot | Well... |
| 19:46.48 | Samot | Let's be honest with ourselves, if privacy concerns where really such an issue there would be no cloud services. |
| 19:47.27 | Samot | You can't sit here and claim privacy concerns when you're iphone or whatever is backing up your photos, music, etc to the cloud |
| 19:47.40 | Samot | Because if you're phone dies, they could be gone and OMG that's not cool. |
| 19:47.58 | Samot | But hey, I can take a picture on my phone and have it on all my devices so that's cool. |
| 19:48.08 | Samot | My social media is attached to everything..blah blah blah |
| 19:48.08 | drmessano | People are still going on and on about Mikrotik being insecure because of those exploits that were found and exploited because of the rise in popularity of the devices. it caused Mikrotik to really do a drill down of the Winbox protocol and make massive improvements. |
| 19:48.17 | Samot | But hey, the Ring is violating my privacy. |
| 19:48.28 | drmessano | But nobody wants to hear that. Look at this old reddit post I found, fap fap fap |
| 19:48.40 | sibiria | i take privacy pretty seriously, even in the case of my apple devices |
| 19:49.13 | sibiria | (though in their case, as opposed to google, i have no worries regarding if the data may be processed or not instead of just stored) |
| 19:49.35 | Samot | Yes but then there are those on the other side of the table. |
| 19:49.39 | sibiria | sure |
| 19:49.40 | Samot | Apple is just as bad. |
| 19:49.45 | drmessano | Do you know Apple has remote support tools that allow them to access any iPhone remotely? |
| 19:50.36 | sibiria | people's data and habits, and insight into these, is google's primary business |
| 19:50.56 | Samot | Shockingly... |
| 19:51.04 | Samot | Other companies too. |
| 19:51.08 | Samot | Even before the Internet |
| 19:51.10 | Samot | Or Google |
| 19:51.14 | Samot | This isn't new. |
| 19:51.28 | sicelo | if apple builds and maintains those datacenters that keep our photos, they have to have a business reason (and it's more than just selling imfc phones) |
| 19:51.28 | drmessano | I only use Apple devices, but point is, everything is fucking scandal, and everything is a privacy concern if you spend enough time in your moms basement |
| 19:51.31 | Samot | Marketing firms are 100% about your habits and your interests. |
| 19:52.02 | Samot | If I was marketing a show for Juggalo's.... |
| 19:52.10 | sibiria | of course, but google is more pervasive and permeating than any other company has even been |
| 19:52.14 | Samot | How much Faygo and clown paint do you thing would be involved? |
| 19:52.22 | Samot | A shit ton because that's for them. |
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| 20:38.54 | eXistenZ | Thank you all guys :-) |
| 20:39.04 | eXistenZ | Samot, Do you have experience with IP cams? |
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