IRC log for #asterisk on 20180721

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01:38.21*** topic/#asterisk is #asterisk The Open Source PBX and Telephony Platform (asterisk.org) -=- LTS: 13.22.0 (2018/07/12), Standard: 15.5.0 (2018/07/12); DAHDI: DAHDI-linux 2.11.1 (2016/03/01), DAHDI-tools 2.11.1 (2016/03/01); libpri 1.6.0 (2017/01/27) -=- Wiki: wiki.asterisk.org -=- Code of Conduct: bit.ly/1hH6P22 -=- Logs: bit.ly/1s4AKKu
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11:18.27FatalNIXI was having trouble finding information on this, does asterisk support TEEN lines on POTS hardware?
11:24.43SamotHuh?
11:36.03FatalNIXIt's a phone line where you assign two DNs to the same phone line, and depending on which one you dial, it will send a different telephone ring pattern
11:36.19FatalNIXit allows you to have multiple fax machines on the same line, for example
11:36.44FatalNIXyou can only have one active call on the line, but it uses the ring pattern for termination
11:36.46SamotAsterisk takes calls that are presented to them.
11:36.57SamotThat would be up to the hardware.
11:37.24FatalNIXso you think the FXS POTS card would be responsible for that/
11:37.33SamotThe ring pattern is an audio alert
11:37.46SamotThat's it.
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11:38.00SamotHow it sends the ring pattern is to alert you, as the user, it's a different number.
11:38.00FatalNIXwell, not in this case, it's a 120v signal on the wire..
11:38.11FatalNIXI'm not using VOIP
11:38.14SamotI know.
11:38.20SamotI get that.
11:39.17FatalNIXWhat I mean is if the FXS card would be the one that suports the ring pattern of if asterisk controls the ring to that level
11:40.44FatalNIXin a multiplexing CO switch, I can just set it up on a particular line circut, but I know Asterisk is a whole other animal
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11:42.09SamotOK
11:42.23SamotSo what you're asking is "Can Asterisk answer based on the ring presented?"
11:42.42SamotYou're basically asking if it has a "Ring Selector"
11:43.23SamotAll the Telco is doing is sending a distinctive ring...
11:43.26SamotAgain, to ALERT YOU
11:43.40FatalNIXno, I was asking if Asterisk is holding the FXS, can asterisk take a number being dialed and deliver a ring pattern, or if that is completely up to hardware features in the FXS adaptor
11:43.51SamotThen you can have a "Ring Selector" device or supported phone that will only pick up based on the ring pattern.
11:44.04FatalNIXnumber being dialed from asterisk FXO side
11:44.32SamotOK....
11:44.50SamotSo you want Asterisk to send distinctive rings to phones via FXS
11:45.19FatalNIXright. I want to put my fax machine and dial-in serial modem on the same phone line
11:45.30FatalNIXand they can be configured, both of them to answer on ring pattern
11:45.46FatalNIXboth of them are auto answer
11:45.46SamotI don't think so.
11:46.34SamotThat would be a DAHDi thing and I don't do that.
11:46.35FatalNIXIt's no big deal if it doesn't, I can run two pots lines, I just figured, heck I wouldn't mind them on the same wire
11:47.41FatalNIXsince I wouldn't use them both at the same time.
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11:50.15SamotWell I could be wrong.
11:50.37SamotThere may be a way to select which ring pattern to use in DAHDi, I just won't know.
11:53.33SamotAn answer probably exists out there somewhere, problem is this is kinda a 2005 problem.
11:53.46SamotSo it's probably buried in the searches.
11:54.20FatalNIXYou must think I'm quite crazy by now, Samot :D
11:54.39SamotIt's a nice historical project.
11:54.45SamotPOTS is phasing out.
11:55.37SamotIn the traditional sense. End users may be giving a POTS/PRI, etc handoff at their location....
11:55.50SamotBut for the most part, gateways/CPEs are doing the lifting...
11:55.56FatalNIXI've been slowly building a bomemade minicomputer stack machine with 7400 series logic, and I realzied, the only way I'll ever get it on the Internet without using hardware that will make it a million times more powerful than the entire computer, is to use a UART and connect it to a modem.
11:56.14FatalNIXthere are other ways but I realized that might be a fun way to get it online
11:57.33SamotLike I said, most are using CPE/gateways now for this.
11:57.45SamotI have hotels with PRI/FXS PBX systems.
11:57.51SamotThey have gateways that sit in front of them.
11:58.16SamotSo their "PRI" is just a SIP
12:00.53SamotHell, even the PBX vendors like Mitel don't want people using their old SX series
12:01.17SamotThey have made replacement parts such as cards, etc insanely high priced.
12:04.02SamotLike I said, it could be a fun historical project...
12:04.32SamotMy comment about it being a 2005 problem was more about being able to find information on the Internet or a _person_ who would have this experience.
12:04.58FatalNIXtraditional PRIs are still used quite a lot here
12:05.11SamotWell you referred to it as TEEN
12:05.15SamotSo you must be in Canada.
12:05.59SamotHad to look it up because I knew what you were talking about but never heard that phrase...
12:06.25FatalNIXit may just be a nortel thing
12:06.29SamotNo.
12:06.49SamotIt was an actual service by carriers in western Canada.
12:07.00SamotBell (who I would have used) called it Ident-a-Call
12:07.03FatalNIXstill is an actual service provided here too
12:07.28FatalNIXbut this would be eastern
12:08.16SamotDon't confuse copper lines being run to your office and you have a PRI as "traditional"
12:10.06FatalNIXHere, whenever you say PRI, you're always talking about a T1 used for voice only
12:10.20SamotRight.
12:10.32FatalNIXIf I had a T1 I dunno what I'd do with it
12:10.33SamotBut I don't need to use the copper lines to push voice.
12:10.35FatalNIXto the house
12:10.46SamotI can use the copper to push data..
12:10.50SamotGive you an Adtran...
12:10.59FatalNIXsome of the adtrans are nice
12:11.08SamotAnd your "PRI" is a SIP trunk that goes to the CPE with the PRI handoff.
12:14.03SamotI still have a SIP Trunk offering that is "channelized"
12:14.17SamotBecause I do a lot of hotels and they only understand phone services by "lines"
12:14.41FatalNIXheh
12:15.05SamotBecause 95% are running 25+ year old Mitels.
12:16.13SamotAnd out of that 99% run FXS based Mitels.
12:16.37SamotSo they always had to buy individual POTS lines for each FXS port they had on the Mitel.
12:17.25FatalNIXSometimes I have to handle people who have more phone lines than I care to go through XD pages and pages and pages of POTS lines
12:17.32FatalNIXit's like, how do you pay for all of this?!
12:17.57SamotBecause they had to.
12:18.19FatalNIXYeah but a hosted pbx solution is generally more than enough now :D
12:18.38FatalNIXjust plug your phones in and go
12:18.40SamotOr a SIP trunk.
12:19.05SamotYou know how I convert these Mitel guys?
12:19.16SamotI have to wait for one of two things to die.
12:19.24Samot1) The FXS card bank
12:19.27Samot2) The owner.
12:19.58SamotOr at least for #2, retire and pass it to the kids.
12:19.59FatalNIXlol
12:20.17Samot$15K to replace an FXS card bank
12:20.22FatalNIXThe biggest problem with having so many POTS
12:20.42FatalNIXis that something eventually happens, and a few of them end up having no dial tone
12:20.53FatalNIXand nobody reports it because it may not even be used
12:21.04Samot$15,000 for a FXS Card
12:21.07FatalNIXso they just keep paying for an out of service number that their hunt group never calls
12:21.23FatalNIX-or-
12:21.25SamotI can generally drop Asterisk + 6 FXS gateways (16 channels) in for way less.
12:21.39FatalNIXthey call up the phone company and say this number has had no dial tone since 1996
12:21.44FatalNIXplease fix
12:23.50SamotWell I have a provider in New Mexico, they are the ones that are big in Hotel services.
12:24.14SamotLast year I presented them with a hybrid solution for their Hotels.
12:24.32SamotEverything but the Guest rooms/PBX are hosted.
12:24.59SamotAnd the Guest Room PBX SIP Trunk is an "extension" of their hosted services....
12:25.47SamotThey weren't buying into it so much because of the reasons I stated earlier, saying that this just wont work for Hotels. Even though we've gotten quite a few using it over the past year...
12:26.00SamotWould have been more but they just weren't pushing it.
12:26.31SamotThis year they went to a new hotel convention and got three new chains...
12:26.57SamotAll of which use another "Hosted" solution from another provider...
12:28.31SamotThey said their bills and quotes with us so we could quote them and this other company's service is *almost* laid out the exact same way I laid out my hybrid solution.
12:28.40Samoter shared*
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15:29.54aoeuiI use pure Asterisk for everything for personal use, but have been reading some of the recent dslreports voip forums posts. wtf is all this drama behind elastix/pbxinaflash/incrediblepbx/3cx/freepbx?
15:30.17[TK]D-Fenderwhat drama specifically?
15:31.56SamotElastix/PIAF where sold to 3CX.
15:31.57aoeuiit seems people are upset about 3cx buying out previous open source projects, other are upset about sangoma and freepbx
15:32.12SamotIncrediblePBX is the same as PBX In A Flash without being sold. Same guy.
15:32.26SamotAll three of those were, at one point, forks of FreePBX.
15:32.30SamotNow they use 3CX.
15:32.46SamotWell IncrediblePBX might still use Asterisk...
15:33.40SamotYeah, they're upset because the "FOSS" project is now owned by a company...
15:33.58EllenorAnd got closed
15:34.01aoeuiso, PBIAF/IncredibePBX used to be based on Asterisk. 3cx bought them out.
15:34.10EllenorWhy?
15:34.13SamotEllenor: FreePBX isn't closed.
15:34.25EllenorWhy would 3CX buy an Asterisk based proj?
15:34.39SamotBecause 3CX launched a Linux OS version.
15:34.55SamotAnd by buying up Linux based PBX systems....
15:34.59aoeuidoes 3cx use mono or something to get their Windows stuff working on Linux?
15:35.01SamotIt gave them a market base.
15:35.13SamotThey created a linux version.
15:35.30aoeuiI spun up a free 1-year cloud VM with 3cx to take a look
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15:36.49aoeuiso - 3cx bought out PBIAF and moved it to 3cx
15:36.56aoeuiwhere is elastix in all this?
15:37.02SamotSame thing.
15:37.10SamotElastix runs the 3CX Linux
15:37.25aoeuiah
15:37.47SamotElastix still has the rights to their last version before the buyout.
15:38.04SamotThey are allowed to release that as a CE/Free version.
15:38.21aoeuiso 3cx ports their Windows code to linux - then buys out asterisk-based web solutions?
15:38.29SamotYes.
15:38.34aoeuimakes sense now
15:38.39Samot3CX also had stock in Sangoma.
15:38.43SamotWell their CEO did.
15:38.57SamotJust before/right around the buyouts, he dumped his Sangoma stock.
15:38.59aoeuisangoma is freepbx commercial support and development?
15:39.11SamotSangoma is FreePBX
15:39.24SamotThey still release a completely open source version.
15:39.30SamotWith the options of commercial modules..
15:39.44SamotAnd they now have fully commercial releases that use FreePBX as the base.
15:40.09aoeuiso anyone looking to deploy an FOSS PBX environment with a web frontend doesn't have many choices now?
15:40.33SamotElastix/PIAF/IncrediblePBX where FORKS of FreePBX.
15:40.40SamotIt's not like you had a wide choice before.
15:40.44aoeuiyeah
15:41.39aoeuiany frontends to freeswitch?
15:41.50SamotFusionPBX
15:41.58aoeuiany good?
15:42.02SamotShrug.
15:42.13SamotIt's alright, I just don't use FreeSwitch.
15:43.49aoeuiso: a team writes the freepbx frontend to asterisk. at some point, sangomea buys the out. other teams fork freepbx, and these get bought out by 3cx?
15:43.49SamotThe problem is these days people would rather spend $10 on Patreon to support their fav YouTuber but won't drop $10 on their FOSS PBX they depend on for their company.
15:43.57fileGUIs require a lot of work to do well, so noone dives into that world much, unless it's some kind of company who makes one for a product and then ends up releasing it in some form
15:44.12Samot^^^^^^
15:44.29aoeuiyeah that sounds about right
15:44.39SamotLike I have a GUI for Asterisk...
15:44.59SamotI am in no way releasing for public consumption because I just don't want that hassle.
15:45.03aoeuiI'll keep using vim to configure my asterisk, I just didn't understand the history behind all these web frontends
15:45.03fileoh and releasing it means it needs to be usable by people, sometimes they are purpose written/specialized...
15:45.09fileso releasing it incurs even more work
15:45.18SamotYup.
15:45.22Samot"That hassle"
15:45.28SamotPlus then you have to support the people that use it
15:45.35fileand you need to be prepared to be an open source project, or run it as source available...
15:45.43SamotAnd listen to them whine about how "Why don't you have this?"
15:46.59aoeuiso they release the full distros for these web frontends because there's too much friction into installing packages for an existing server?
15:47.28filepeople who use GUIs are generally lazy
15:47.37SamotYou can install FreePBX by an ISO or source.
15:47.39filethey just want an "appliance" that works
15:47.56SamotThe ISO makes sure all the needed software/libraries, etc are installed and done properly
15:48.47SamotThe source installs requires you to install all the proper versions yourself.
15:50.35aoeuihow much money are these previously FOSS frontends raking in?
15:50.47aoeui$1M?
15:51.39SamotI have no clue.
15:52.03aoeuiI don't think it would be that lucrative
15:53.54aoeuithanks for the insight
15:54.43fileyou make money off everything else involved...
15:55.05SamotSupport
15:55.10SamotCustom Development
15:55.21SamotCommercial Features
15:55.27SamotIn some cases, phones
15:56.00[TK]D-FenderCustom server because installing = hard
15:56.24SamotJust because something is "Free to Use" does not make it actually "Free to Run"
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