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| 01:38.21 | *** topic/#asterisk is #asterisk The Open Source PBX and Telephony Platform (asterisk.org) -=- LTS: 13.22.0 (2018/07/12), Standard: 15.5.0 (2018/07/12); DAHDI: DAHDI-linux 2.11.1 (2016/03/01), DAHDI-tools 2.11.1 (2016/03/01); libpri 1.6.0 (2017/01/27) -=- Wiki: wiki.asterisk.org -=- Code of Conduct: bit.ly/1hH6P22 -=- Logs: bit.ly/1s4AKKu |
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| 11:18.27 | FatalNIX | I was having trouble finding information on this, does asterisk support TEEN lines on POTS hardware? |
| 11:24.43 | Samot | Huh? |
| 11:36.03 | FatalNIX | It's a phone line where you assign two DNs to the same phone line, and depending on which one you dial, it will send a different telephone ring pattern |
| 11:36.19 | FatalNIX | it allows you to have multiple fax machines on the same line, for example |
| 11:36.44 | FatalNIX | you can only have one active call on the line, but it uses the ring pattern for termination |
| 11:36.46 | Samot | Asterisk takes calls that are presented to them. |
| 11:36.57 | Samot | That would be up to the hardware. |
| 11:37.24 | FatalNIX | so you think the FXS POTS card would be responsible for that/ |
| 11:37.33 | Samot | The ring pattern is an audio alert |
| 11:37.46 | Samot | That's it. |
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| 11:38.00 | Samot | How it sends the ring pattern is to alert you, as the user, it's a different number. |
| 11:38.00 | FatalNIX | well, not in this case, it's a 120v signal on the wire.. |
| 11:38.11 | FatalNIX | I'm not using VOIP |
| 11:38.14 | Samot | I know. |
| 11:38.20 | Samot | I get that. |
| 11:39.17 | FatalNIX | What I mean is if the FXS card would be the one that suports the ring pattern of if asterisk controls the ring to that level |
| 11:40.44 | FatalNIX | in a multiplexing CO switch, I can just set it up on a particular line circut, but I know Asterisk is a whole other animal |
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| 11:42.09 | Samot | OK |
| 11:42.23 | Samot | So what you're asking is "Can Asterisk answer based on the ring presented?" |
| 11:42.42 | Samot | You're basically asking if it has a "Ring Selector" |
| 11:43.23 | Samot | All the Telco is doing is sending a distinctive ring... |
| 11:43.26 | Samot | Again, to ALERT YOU |
| 11:43.40 | FatalNIX | no, I was asking if Asterisk is holding the FXS, can asterisk take a number being dialed and deliver a ring pattern, or if that is completely up to hardware features in the FXS adaptor |
| 11:43.51 | Samot | Then you can have a "Ring Selector" device or supported phone that will only pick up based on the ring pattern. |
| 11:44.04 | FatalNIX | number being dialed from asterisk FXO side |
| 11:44.32 | Samot | OK.... |
| 11:44.50 | Samot | So you want Asterisk to send distinctive rings to phones via FXS |
| 11:45.19 | FatalNIX | right. I want to put my fax machine and dial-in serial modem on the same phone line |
| 11:45.30 | FatalNIX | and they can be configured, both of them to answer on ring pattern |
| 11:45.46 | FatalNIX | both of them are auto answer |
| 11:45.46 | Samot | I don't think so. |
| 11:46.34 | Samot | That would be a DAHDi thing and I don't do that. |
| 11:46.35 | FatalNIX | It's no big deal if it doesn't, I can run two pots lines, I just figured, heck I wouldn't mind them on the same wire |
| 11:47.41 | FatalNIX | since I wouldn't use them both at the same time. |
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| 11:50.15 | Samot | Well I could be wrong. |
| 11:50.37 | Samot | There may be a way to select which ring pattern to use in DAHDi, I just won't know. |
| 11:53.33 | Samot | An answer probably exists out there somewhere, problem is this is kinda a 2005 problem. |
| 11:53.46 | Samot | So it's probably buried in the searches. |
| 11:54.20 | FatalNIX | You must think I'm quite crazy by now, Samot :D |
| 11:54.39 | Samot | It's a nice historical project. |
| 11:54.45 | Samot | POTS is phasing out. |
| 11:55.37 | Samot | In the traditional sense. End users may be giving a POTS/PRI, etc handoff at their location.... |
| 11:55.50 | Samot | But for the most part, gateways/CPEs are doing the lifting... |
| 11:55.56 | FatalNIX | I've been slowly building a bomemade minicomputer stack machine with 7400 series logic, and I realzied, the only way I'll ever get it on the Internet without using hardware that will make it a million times more powerful than the entire computer, is to use a UART and connect it to a modem. |
| 11:56.14 | FatalNIX | there are other ways but I realized that might be a fun way to get it online |
| 11:57.33 | Samot | Like I said, most are using CPE/gateways now for this. |
| 11:57.45 | Samot | I have hotels with PRI/FXS PBX systems. |
| 11:57.51 | Samot | They have gateways that sit in front of them. |
| 11:58.16 | Samot | So their "PRI" is just a SIP |
| 12:00.53 | Samot | Hell, even the PBX vendors like Mitel don't want people using their old SX series |
| 12:01.17 | Samot | They have made replacement parts such as cards, etc insanely high priced. |
| 12:04.02 | Samot | Like I said, it could be a fun historical project... |
| 12:04.32 | Samot | My comment about it being a 2005 problem was more about being able to find information on the Internet or a _person_ who would have this experience. |
| 12:04.58 | FatalNIX | traditional PRIs are still used quite a lot here |
| 12:05.11 | Samot | Well you referred to it as TEEN |
| 12:05.15 | Samot | So you must be in Canada. |
| 12:05.59 | Samot | Had to look it up because I knew what you were talking about but never heard that phrase... |
| 12:06.25 | FatalNIX | it may just be a nortel thing |
| 12:06.29 | Samot | No. |
| 12:06.49 | Samot | It was an actual service by carriers in western Canada. |
| 12:07.00 | Samot | Bell (who I would have used) called it Ident-a-Call |
| 12:07.03 | FatalNIX | still is an actual service provided here too |
| 12:07.28 | FatalNIX | but this would be eastern |
| 12:08.16 | Samot | Don't confuse copper lines being run to your office and you have a PRI as "traditional" |
| 12:10.06 | FatalNIX | Here, whenever you say PRI, you're always talking about a T1 used for voice only |
| 12:10.20 | Samot | Right. |
| 12:10.32 | FatalNIX | If I had a T1 I dunno what I'd do with it |
| 12:10.33 | Samot | But I don't need to use the copper lines to push voice. |
| 12:10.35 | FatalNIX | to the house |
| 12:10.46 | Samot | I can use the copper to push data.. |
| 12:10.50 | Samot | Give you an Adtran... |
| 12:10.59 | FatalNIX | some of the adtrans are nice |
| 12:11.08 | Samot | And your "PRI" is a SIP trunk that goes to the CPE with the PRI handoff. |
| 12:14.03 | Samot | I still have a SIP Trunk offering that is "channelized" |
| 12:14.17 | Samot | Because I do a lot of hotels and they only understand phone services by "lines" |
| 12:14.41 | FatalNIX | heh |
| 12:15.05 | Samot | Because 95% are running 25+ year old Mitels. |
| 12:16.13 | Samot | And out of that 99% run FXS based Mitels. |
| 12:16.37 | Samot | So they always had to buy individual POTS lines for each FXS port they had on the Mitel. |
| 12:17.25 | FatalNIX | Sometimes I have to handle people who have more phone lines than I care to go through XD pages and pages and pages of POTS lines |
| 12:17.32 | FatalNIX | it's like, how do you pay for all of this?! |
| 12:17.57 | Samot | Because they had to. |
| 12:18.19 | FatalNIX | Yeah but a hosted pbx solution is generally more than enough now :D |
| 12:18.38 | FatalNIX | just plug your phones in and go |
| 12:18.40 | Samot | Or a SIP trunk. |
| 12:19.05 | Samot | You know how I convert these Mitel guys? |
| 12:19.16 | Samot | I have to wait for one of two things to die. |
| 12:19.24 | Samot | 1) The FXS card bank |
| 12:19.27 | Samot | 2) The owner. |
| 12:19.58 | Samot | Or at least for #2, retire and pass it to the kids. |
| 12:19.59 | FatalNIX | lol |
| 12:20.17 | Samot | $15K to replace an FXS card bank |
| 12:20.22 | FatalNIX | The biggest problem with having so many POTS |
| 12:20.42 | FatalNIX | is that something eventually happens, and a few of them end up having no dial tone |
| 12:20.53 | FatalNIX | and nobody reports it because it may not even be used |
| 12:21.04 | Samot | $15,000 for a FXS Card |
| 12:21.07 | FatalNIX | so they just keep paying for an out of service number that their hunt group never calls |
| 12:21.23 | FatalNIX | -or- |
| 12:21.25 | Samot | I can generally drop Asterisk + 6 FXS gateways (16 channels) in for way less. |
| 12:21.39 | FatalNIX | they call up the phone company and say this number has had no dial tone since 1996 |
| 12:21.44 | FatalNIX | please fix |
| 12:23.50 | Samot | Well I have a provider in New Mexico, they are the ones that are big in Hotel services. |
| 12:24.14 | Samot | Last year I presented them with a hybrid solution for their Hotels. |
| 12:24.32 | Samot | Everything but the Guest rooms/PBX are hosted. |
| 12:24.59 | Samot | And the Guest Room PBX SIP Trunk is an "extension" of their hosted services.... |
| 12:25.47 | Samot | They weren't buying into it so much because of the reasons I stated earlier, saying that this just wont work for Hotels. Even though we've gotten quite a few using it over the past year... |
| 12:26.00 | Samot | Would have been more but they just weren't pushing it. |
| 12:26.31 | Samot | This year they went to a new hotel convention and got three new chains... |
| 12:26.57 | Samot | All of which use another "Hosted" solution from another provider... |
| 12:28.31 | Samot | They said their bills and quotes with us so we could quote them and this other company's service is *almost* laid out the exact same way I laid out my hybrid solution. |
| 12:28.40 | Samot | er shared* |
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| 15:29.54 | aoeui | I use pure Asterisk for everything for personal use, but have been reading some of the recent dslreports voip forums posts. wtf is all this drama behind elastix/pbxinaflash/incrediblepbx/3cx/freepbx? |
| 15:30.17 | [TK]D-Fender | what drama specifically? |
| 15:31.56 | Samot | Elastix/PIAF where sold to 3CX. |
| 15:31.57 | aoeui | it seems people are upset about 3cx buying out previous open source projects, other are upset about sangoma and freepbx |
| 15:32.12 | Samot | IncrediblePBX is the same as PBX In A Flash without being sold. Same guy. |
| 15:32.26 | Samot | All three of those were, at one point, forks of FreePBX. |
| 15:32.30 | Samot | Now they use 3CX. |
| 15:32.46 | Samot | Well IncrediblePBX might still use Asterisk... |
| 15:33.40 | Samot | Yeah, they're upset because the "FOSS" project is now owned by a company... |
| 15:33.58 | Ellenor | And got closed |
| 15:34.01 | aoeui | so, PBIAF/IncredibePBX used to be based on Asterisk. 3cx bought them out. |
| 15:34.10 | Ellenor | Why? |
| 15:34.13 | Samot | Ellenor: FreePBX isn't closed. |
| 15:34.25 | Ellenor | Why would 3CX buy an Asterisk based proj? |
| 15:34.39 | Samot | Because 3CX launched a Linux OS version. |
| 15:34.55 | Samot | And by buying up Linux based PBX systems.... |
| 15:34.59 | aoeui | does 3cx use mono or something to get their Windows stuff working on Linux? |
| 15:35.01 | Samot | It gave them a market base. |
| 15:35.13 | Samot | They created a linux version. |
| 15:35.30 | aoeui | I spun up a free 1-year cloud VM with 3cx to take a look |
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| 15:36.49 | aoeui | so - 3cx bought out PBIAF and moved it to 3cx |
| 15:36.56 | aoeui | where is elastix in all this? |
| 15:37.02 | Samot | Same thing. |
| 15:37.10 | Samot | Elastix runs the 3CX Linux |
| 15:37.25 | aoeui | ah |
| 15:37.47 | Samot | Elastix still has the rights to their last version before the buyout. |
| 15:38.04 | Samot | They are allowed to release that as a CE/Free version. |
| 15:38.21 | aoeui | so 3cx ports their Windows code to linux - then buys out asterisk-based web solutions? |
| 15:38.29 | Samot | Yes. |
| 15:38.34 | aoeui | makes sense now |
| 15:38.39 | Samot | 3CX also had stock in Sangoma. |
| 15:38.43 | Samot | Well their CEO did. |
| 15:38.57 | Samot | Just before/right around the buyouts, he dumped his Sangoma stock. |
| 15:38.59 | aoeui | sangoma is freepbx commercial support and development? |
| 15:39.11 | Samot | Sangoma is FreePBX |
| 15:39.24 | Samot | They still release a completely open source version. |
| 15:39.30 | Samot | With the options of commercial modules.. |
| 15:39.44 | Samot | And they now have fully commercial releases that use FreePBX as the base. |
| 15:40.09 | aoeui | so anyone looking to deploy an FOSS PBX environment with a web frontend doesn't have many choices now? |
| 15:40.33 | Samot | Elastix/PIAF/IncrediblePBX where FORKS of FreePBX. |
| 15:40.40 | Samot | It's not like you had a wide choice before. |
| 15:40.44 | aoeui | yeah |
| 15:41.39 | aoeui | any frontends to freeswitch? |
| 15:41.50 | Samot | FusionPBX |
| 15:41.58 | aoeui | any good? |
| 15:42.02 | Samot | Shrug. |
| 15:42.13 | Samot | It's alright, I just don't use FreeSwitch. |
| 15:43.49 | aoeui | so: a team writes the freepbx frontend to asterisk. at some point, sangomea buys the out. other teams fork freepbx, and these get bought out by 3cx? |
| 15:43.49 | Samot | The problem is these days people would rather spend $10 on Patreon to support their fav YouTuber but won't drop $10 on their FOSS PBX they depend on for their company. |
| 15:43.57 | file | GUIs require a lot of work to do well, so noone dives into that world much, unless it's some kind of company who makes one for a product and then ends up releasing it in some form |
| 15:44.12 | Samot | ^^^^^^ |
| 15:44.29 | aoeui | yeah that sounds about right |
| 15:44.39 | Samot | Like I have a GUI for Asterisk... |
| 15:44.59 | Samot | I am in no way releasing for public consumption because I just don't want that hassle. |
| 15:45.03 | aoeui | I'll keep using vim to configure my asterisk, I just didn't understand the history behind all these web frontends |
| 15:45.03 | file | oh and releasing it means it needs to be usable by people, sometimes they are purpose written/specialized... |
| 15:45.09 | file | so releasing it incurs even more work |
| 15:45.18 | Samot | Yup. |
| 15:45.22 | Samot | "That hassle" |
| 15:45.28 | Samot | Plus then you have to support the people that use it |
| 15:45.35 | file | and you need to be prepared to be an open source project, or run it as source available... |
| 15:45.43 | Samot | And listen to them whine about how "Why don't you have this?" |
| 15:46.59 | aoeui | so they release the full distros for these web frontends because there's too much friction into installing packages for an existing server? |
| 15:47.28 | file | people who use GUIs are generally lazy |
| 15:47.37 | Samot | You can install FreePBX by an ISO or source. |
| 15:47.39 | file | they just want an "appliance" that works |
| 15:47.56 | Samot | The ISO makes sure all the needed software/libraries, etc are installed and done properly |
| 15:48.47 | Samot | The source installs requires you to install all the proper versions yourself. |
| 15:50.35 | aoeui | how much money are these previously FOSS frontends raking in? |
| 15:50.47 | aoeui | $1M? |
| 15:51.39 | Samot | I have no clue. |
| 15:52.03 | aoeui | I don't think it would be that lucrative |
| 15:53.54 | aoeui | thanks for the insight |
| 15:54.43 | file | you make money off everything else involved... |
| 15:55.05 | Samot | Support |
| 15:55.10 | Samot | Custom Development |
| 15:55.21 | Samot | Commercial Features |
| 15:55.27 | Samot | In some cases, phones |
| 15:56.00 | [TK]D-Fender | Custom server because installing = hard |
| 15:56.24 | Samot | Just because something is "Free to Use" does not make it actually "Free to Run" |
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