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02:22.20 | fling | Are you using googlevoice? |
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02:49.26 | igcewieling | CEL is awesome but generates SO much data. |
02:53.41 | leifmadsen | isn't that the ideal? ?) |
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03:00.15 | deo | hi i need help with my asterisk setup, i tried calling remotely using my softphone(zoiper), i see on the logs that the call went through but didn't hear any sound from my xlite.. |
03:00.39 | pabelanger | ~sipnat |
03:00.39 | infobot | [~sipnat] Quick guide on configuring Asterisk + SIP behind NAT: http://www.aocomputing.net/?p=3 otherwise check the wiki at http://www.voip-info.org/wiki/view/Asterisk+SIP+NAT+solutions . Typically, you MUST configure these settings with appropriate values in the [general] section of sip.conf: nat, directmedia, externhost or externaddr, and localnet. |
03:00.43 | pabelanger | deo: ^ |
03:01.00 | deo | calling locally(same network - call went OK) |
03:01.34 | deo | hmmn as fas as i know. my asterisk machine is not behind a NAT |
03:02.09 | deo | but will try to take a look at it.. |
03:03.25 | deo | pabelanger: can u verify if this link works > http://www.aocomputing.net/?p=3 |
03:03.41 | deo | i tried accessing it but page not found |
03:06.13 | pabelanger | guess not any more |
03:07.48 | deo | hmnnn |
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03:09.12 | igcewieling | deo: do you use bindaddr or bindport? If so, stop. |
03:10.04 | deo | you mean comment it out?? |
03:10.08 | igcewieling | correct. |
03:10.22 | deo | okay... let me tryu |
03:10.24 | igcewieling | it is seldom needed and can cause all sorts of issues. |
03:11.04 | igcewieling | leifmadsen: in theory yes, but large datasets scare me. 8-| |
03:11.18 | leifmadsen | only scary if you have nothing to parse it with |
03:13.21 | igcewieling | most of my use of CEL is CELUserEvents, looks to be much more lightweight than doing it myself in the AGIs |
03:13.30 | deo | igcewieling: i didnt use bindport |
03:14.28 | igcewieling | deo: what about bindaddr? |
03:17.01 | deo | hmmn is declaring nat=yes, meaning your using nat? ;) |
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04:27.24 | Weezey | I'm having a weird problem with Cisco SPA122s. When I set them to mailbox=mailboxnumber they re-register every few minutes |
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04:40.24 | ChannelZ | Guess you'd have to look at a SIP debug and see if they are complaining about something. |
04:41.11 | ChannelZ | Setting the mailbox in sip.conf I believe is only an asterisk-side thing which tells it what mailbox to poll and to send notifications to the peer. So I can only assume Asterisk is sending a notification and the phone is barfing |
05:00.07 | Weezey | Thanks ChannelZ, I'll debug 'em to see if there's rhyme/reason. |
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07:46.52 | rhenier | hi all |
07:47.27 | ChannelZ | ahoy |
07:47.45 | rhenier | what's happenin'? |
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07:49.27 | rhenier | kinda quiet in here, is everyone asleep? |
07:49.53 | rhenier | I guess not a lot of people here from South Africa where it's 09:49 |
07:54.32 | rhenier | I am in desperate need of some asssistance with our asterisk installation - it shouldn't take an expert very long to solve. I'm willing to pay for someone to finish the configuration. Straight forward setup, few users. I can't get the incoming calls on SIP trunk to ring. It reached the asterisk but isn't routed properly. Although this seems to be a common problem, I couldn't get it to work. |
07:54.32 | rhenier | Please contact me if you are able to assist and would like to make a feq quick $$'s :) |
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08:00.21 | ChannelZ | Have you turned on console verbose and do you see anything on the console when you attempt to call? |
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10:38.40 | EmleyMoor | I'm trying to use t38modem - is there a good guide to doing so? |
10:40.18 | ptns | Can anyone suggest why ${EXTERN} is not returning a value |
10:41.00 | ptns | Actualy no system variable is working |
10:44.09 | fling | ptns: try ${EXTEN} |
10:45.56 | ptns | thanks, i'll try |
10:59.34 | fling | are you using google voice? |
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11:02.22 | ruben231 | hi guys.. |
11:03.27 | ruben231 | anyone can help with fail2ban config so no one can brute force attack, i have mine already setup but still tehre are sip attack and ip that are not block..anyone can share few config..please |
11:10.42 | phix | "I made chicken, I hope that isn't one of the animals you think is magic" |
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11:25.57 | EmleyMoor | Hmmm... t38modem keeps saying "Busy signal detected" |
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12:21.00 | DND | hi guys need help.. our 2 asterisk servers are connected via iax. i can call them and they can call me but whenever we answer it, there's no sound |
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12:29.57 | phix | DND: firewall |
12:30.03 | phix | the end |
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12:36.38 | DND | phix: 4569 and ports 10000-20000 are already on allowed list |
12:36.46 | DND | is therey anymore ports to allow? |
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12:41.20 | danfromuk | How many connections can AMI handle at a time? Is there a recommended maximum? |
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13:05.21 | fling | DND: 5060 probably |
13:05.31 | fling | DND: are we talking about udp? |
13:05.38 | fling | DND: are you calling via sip? |
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13:07.37 | DND | fling: its an iax connection |
13:07.48 | DND | do i still need to port forward 5060? |
13:08.02 | fling | idk, probably no |
13:08.08 | DND | the phone authentication is via sip but server to server connection is iax |
13:09.09 | fling | DND: nat? |
13:09.27 | DND | hmm any idea how to deal with nat? |
13:10.00 | fling | I have a sip server behing nat, works fine |
13:11.21 | fling | DND: I use iax2 over vpn without nat |
13:11.43 | fling | and without route |
13:34.23 | DND | fling: seems a codec issue |
13:34.33 | DND | we are on g729 but i switch to gsm only its working |
13:35.20 | fling | DND: gsm works good for me on slow connections |
13:35.45 | fling | DND: I use g722 for iax2 trunk |
13:37.10 | EmleyMoor | Is there a channel that supports t38modem? I'm having trouble - it's causing faxes to fail with what it tells HylaFAX is "Busy signal detected"... |
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13:48.36 | WIMPy | No helping debug? |
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14:28.45 | EmleyMoor | WIMPy: Try this: http://paste.debian.net/231373/ - I can't make anything of the log |
14:29.31 | EmleyMoor | I can send faxes direct from one t38modem instance to another, but can't get them to send over a line that iaxmodem manages on |
14:30.26 | EmleyMoor | I'd like to try receiving with it, to see if that works, because it wouldn't with iaxmodem... |
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14:33.05 | WIMPy | RTP_UDP Session 1, Data port on remote not ready. |
14:33.12 | WIMPy | That one looks interesting to me. |
14:34.17 | EmleyMoor | Yes... but how is that happening and what can I do about it? |
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17:39.34 | Weezey | Anyone set up mwi from another asterisk box? |
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18:13.56 | ChannelZ | Weezey: generally the phone would subscribe to MWI on the other box directly. I don't think it's something that can 'pass-thru' |
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19:21.09 | rue_house | can anyone help me with a mgcp problem? I think mgcp.conf can only define one gateway? |
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19:27.05 | bananapie | Where can I find a copy of the music on hold license on the asterisk website ? |
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19:33.16 | [TK]D-Fender | rue_house: Do you have all of the debug packed and ready? |
19:33.51 | rue_house | what do you want to know? |
19:34.23 | rue_house | http://rueshouse.dyndns.org:82/~asterisk/var/log/asterisk/messages |
19:34.29 | [TK]D-Fender | rue_house: Wasn't my question. Do you have ALL of the debug and configs ready to examine? |
19:34.53 | rue_house | http://rueshouse.dyndns.org:82/~asterisk/etc/asterisk/mgcp.conf |
19:35.00 | rue_house | I'm sure you can ask for soemthing I dont have |
19:35.04 | [TK]D-Fender | rue_house: There is no channel level debug in there, no packet trace. |
19:35.15 | [TK]D-Fender | Like these ESSENTIALS? |
19:35.15 | rue_house | somethng that I would swear is unrelated to my problem :) |
19:35.26 | rue_house | debug 9 verbose 9 |
19:35.29 | rue_house | what else is there? |
19:35.48 | [TK]D-Fender | Debugging a SIP call without SIP debug enabled is delusional. Do you think MMGCP is any different? |
19:36.22 | rue_house | so NOW you tell me you want a complete traffic capture of the whole thing? |
19:36.34 | [TK]D-Fender | rue_house: I told you this weeks ago when you first came in with tis |
19:36.42 | [TK]D-Fender | and beat you over the head with it repeatedly |
19:36.57 | [TK]D-Fender | rue_house: No-one has any reason to trust any of your networking. |
19:37.16 | [TK]D-Fender | You don't confirm make & model there. Or ASTERISK VERSION. |
19:37.22 | rue_house | haha, the addresses are statically set, there is 1 switch |
19:37.34 | rue_house | the device works fine if I change the order of them in the config file |
19:37.37 | [TK]D-Fender | rue_house: You do not seem to have grasped the concept of "complete information". |
19:37.44 | rue_house | whichever device is last in the list works fine |
19:38.03 | rue_house | you didn't mention a network capture before |
19:38.05 | [TK]D-Fender | rue_house: Stop giving partial information and forcing people to ask every time. |
19:38.10 | [TK]D-Fender | rue_house: I did. Repeatedly. |
19:38.13 | rue_house | no |
19:38.17 | rue_house | you mentioned everything else |
19:38.27 | rue_house | please prove me wrong, show me a log file |
19:38.42 | rue_house | dude, you help so many people , your mixing me up with someone else |
19:39.49 | rue_house | [TK]D-Fender, do you want ALL the traffic for this transaction (which takes me about 15 minutes to set up all the different scenarios) or do you have a filter you would suggest |
19:40.23 | rue_house | it is my beleif, and I'm trying to prove it, that nomatter what and how much information I provide, my question will not be answered |
19:41.27 | rue_house | I think anyone familiar with whatever code parses mgcp.conf could answer this |
19:42.00 | [TK]D-Fender | Telephony is not "faith based". Beliefs are irrelevant You had all this time to actually get SOMETHING to show and haven't and keep making excuses why you haven't and aren't about to. Noone wants to go through the same song & dance of 15 million requests to get anything to look at. |
19:42.18 | [TK]D-Fender | You are not helping yourself get help., |
19:42.26 | [TK]D-Fender | You ask the same questio the same way every time offering nothing |
19:42.42 | [TK]D-Fender | Do you wonder why you're going in circles? |
19:42.58 | [TK]D-Fender | Have you posted all of the debug (which you don't have) and details on the mailing lists yet? |
19:43.08 | [TK]D-Fender | How about the bug tracker? |
19:44.44 | *** join/#asterisk macroevolve (~macroevol@c-67-169-148-235.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
19:48.34 | macroevolve | hi - my prior tech (who I can no longer contact) setup asterisk & opensips on my server. He also created a softphone-type application that a remote user would run so we could take VOIP quality test measurements for the user (e.g.: jitter, rount trip, etc.). I am unsure how to calculate % of packet loss from the 4 variables he setup in the server/database: "received_packets", "local_lostpacket", |
19:48.34 | macroevolve | "remote_lostpackets", "transmitted_packets". Would anyone be able to take a guess as to how to use these variables to get the % packet loss? |
19:48.43 | rue_house | it would take less effort for me to write my own pbx software |
19:49.11 | rue_house | using modems and sound cards |
19:49.20 | ChannelZ | go for it |
19:49.29 | rue_house | I dont wnat to |
19:49.30 | [TK]D-Fender | rue_house: That to get packet debug? Then by all means go write your own and you'll be able to stop asking about *'s MGCP support then. |
19:50.01 | rue_house | I want to know where the BUG is IN THE MGCP.CONF PARSER CODE that OVERLAPS CONFIGURATION SECTIONS |
19:50.23 | ChannelZ | This looks more like networking or device issues than how it's parsing the config file |
19:50.25 | rue_house | or what the syntax error is in my mgcp.conf |
19:50.53 | rue_house | it does, but when you switch the order the two gateways are in in mgcp, the OTHER one works perfectly fine |
19:51.12 | rue_house | the error is always on the not-last gateway defined |
19:51.48 | ChannelZ | so make a 3rd one that does nothing hahaah |
19:51.49 | [TK]D-Fender | rue_house: Did you post to the mailing list? Did you post to the bug tracker? |
19:51.57 | rue_house | I didn'thave time |
19:52.00 | [TK]D-Fender | rue_house: Did you provide debug and Asterisk version info? |
19:52.08 | [TK]D-Fender | rue_house: Stop making excuses. |
19:52.09 | ChannelZ | You should hire a consultant then |
19:52.16 | rue_house | ChannelZ, no, the last one defined is the only one that works |
19:52.36 | rue_house | I had a week long winder to come up with a solution, its been 3 weeks now |
19:53.14 | [TK]D-Fender | rue_house: You'd provided nothing. So far the results have been proportionate. It must not be very important to you. |
19:53.30 | rue_house | [TK]D-Fender, I dont want to give you guys the version info, because you use it as an excuse to say the code is more than 3 days old and so you wont help me with the problem |
19:53.35 | leifmadsen | are both the same IP address? |
19:53.39 | rue_house | no |
19:53.47 | rue_house | one is .201 and one is .202 |
19:53.50 | leifmadsen | sounds like the code is more than 3 years old |
19:53.53 | rue_house | see the mgcp.conf |
19:53.54 | leifmadsen | that might be the problem |
19:54.08 | leifmadsen | and also that almost nobody uses mgcp with asterisk |
19:54.16 | rue_house | I know |
19:54.34 | rue_house | was there a bug fix to anything mgcp since a week after it came out? |
19:54.48 | leifmadsen | I don't know, was there? |
19:54.52 | leifmadsen | the history is available for parsing |
19:54.56 | rue_house | the version thing is a great trick tho |
19:55.15 | rue_house | saying you wont help someone who dosn't upgrade the system every morning is a good way out |
19:55.24 | leifmadsen | I didn't say that |
19:55.38 | leifmadsen | I'm just saying your version is 3 years old, and you could look at what has changed and determine if there is a change you need to backport |
19:55.44 | [TK]D-Fender | rue_house: You have done nothing to help others help you. You forfeit all right to complain about anything. |
19:55.50 | rue_house | but it is, everyone does it with voip |
19:56.03 | leifmadsen | voip is a generic term that spans multiple protocols |
19:56.14 | rue_house | I spent weeks gathering and posting every successive peice of information I was asked for |
19:56.24 | rue_house | and every time I did, I was asked to add someting else to it |
19:56.47 | [TK]D-Fender | rue_house: No, its always the same information that's required and you know it and are deliberately not showing anything |
19:56.50 | leifmadsen | your tone comes across as overly harsh, and you're asking for assistance for free. Perhaps you could try being less aggressive. |
19:56.59 | rue_house | I know, polycom gave me the same runarund when I asked what the range and layout of the gains was in the xml file |
19:57.35 | rue_house | I'm pissed off that I keep getting runaround instead of help |
19:57.48 | [TK]D-Fender | rue_house: You are the run-around on every problem you've come in here with. You have excuse after excuse and you seem to feel that you are special beyond all of these cases and that it's everyone else that has a problem. |
19:58.12 | rue_house | you are good at blaming this on me, thankyou |
19:58.19 | leifmadsen | are you looking for help in solving the problem, or someone to hand you the solution? |
19:58.27 | [TK]D-Fender | Doctor, I demand you fix me now! And don't ask me what's bothering me or to describe anything! |
19:58.39 | rue_house | http://www.voip-info.org/wiki/view/VoipPack+VOG+4000+and+asterisk |
19:58.51 | leifmadsen | you're welcome. I just gave you a potential solution. You could look at the history of the chan_mgcp module and attempt to determine if a change has been added after your deployed code |
19:59.05 | [TK]D-Fender | rue_house: That wiki is DEAD. Has been for years |
19:59.09 | leifmadsen | you could also check the issue tracker and determine if there is an open issue |
19:59.14 | [TK]D-Fender | rue_house: and it is not the place to ask for help |
19:59.21 | [TK]D-Fender | leifmadsen: He hasn't. nor the mailing list. |
19:59.29 | leifmadsen | what you're describing sounds like a bug. What you need to do is resolve it. It's probably not just a configuration error. |
19:59.32 | [TK]D-Fender | leifmadsen: And has been told repeeatedly over these weeks to post them there |
20:00.02 | rue_house | http://www.voip-info.org/wiki/view/Tellabs+Hardware+Echo+Cancellers |
20:00.33 | leifmadsen | other methods are using the mailing list (which doesn't rely on the person being as present as irc), so you'll get a larger audience, or you could get a consultant to help resolve the problem rather than spending weeks struggling through something |
20:00.49 | rue_house | I contributed alot to that too |
20:01.13 | rue_house | I was not told to post trafic logs and you cant find a log to prove it |
20:01.18 | leifmadsen | a lot |
20:02.36 | rue_house | so if someone phone system goes down, they should write a webpage with all the info about their system and all the network traffic that does going on at the time and put a link to it in a letter to the mailing list, and wait? |
20:02.57 | leifmadsen | no, they should find someone knowledgeable to resolve the issue |
20:03.10 | leifmadsen | if you are incapable of that feat, then you should find someone who is |
20:03.41 | rue_house | did anyone even LOOK at my mgcp.conf to see if I made an error? or did you go rushing off saying that there was a loosly related preice of infomation missing so you woulnd't be able to help me |
20:04.05 | rue_house | and hwo the hell is anyone who dosn't 100% all the asterisk source code supposed to become knowledgable? |
20:04.26 | rue_house | did anyone even LOOK at my mgcp.conf to see if I made an error? or did you go rushing off saying that there was a loosly related preice of infomation missing so you woulnd't be able to help me |
20:04.29 | leifmadsen | no, I noticed how big of a turd you were being and thought I'd help you with that issue first |
20:05.18 | rue_house | nomatter what info I provide, nobody seems to be trying to be helpfull, sorry |
20:05.52 | rue_house | http://rueshouse.dyndns.org:82/~asterisk/etc/asterisk/mgcp.conf |
20:05.55 | leifmadsen | I was trying to help you, the configuration is fine. What you described sounds like a bug. I told you how to start researching that issue and how to move forward, but instead you decided to be incredibly defensive. |
20:05.59 | rue_house | ^^^ did I create a config overlap???? |
20:06.05 | rue_house | ok |
20:06.20 | rue_house | ok.. |
20:06.35 | rue_house | that is more progress right there than I'v had in 3 weeks with tk |
20:06.42 | rue_house | thankyou |
20:06.52 | leifmadsen | be less douchey and maybe people will try and help you |
20:07.09 | rue_house | I started off nice |
20:07.17 | rue_house | please beleive me on that |
20:07.19 | leifmadsen | not since I got here |
20:07.28 | rue_house | nope I started 3 weeks ago |
20:07.31 | leifmadsen | going from nice to bitchy doesn't help you |
20:07.58 | rue_house | you see, the system dosn't have internet access, so getting and posting all this is a choar |
20:08.15 | rue_house | I was first asked for mgcp.conf |
20:08.29 | rue_house | then, 2 weeks later, the asterisk log |
20:08.43 | rue_house | then (now) a complete network dump |
20:09.19 | leifmadsen | that is the standard line of questioning when debugging an issue |
20:09.27 | *** join/#asterisk saint_ (~saint@68.38.56.184) |
20:09.33 | saint_ | hi all |
20:09.34 | rue_house | I'v got someone really pissed off at me for not making them up a system to fix a stupid situation they got themselfs into |
20:09.56 | leifmadsen | rue_house: if you can't support a system, then you shouldn't deploy it |
20:10.09 | rue_house | yes, but it might be good to listen to the quetion and give what answers can be had from it |
20:10.09 | leifmadsen | anyways, I'm done now. I bid you good luck on your endeavor |
20:10.38 | rue_house | such as 'mgcp.conf is not known to have a bug when configuring muleiple devices |
20:10.40 | rue_house | ' |
20:11.29 | rue_house | I wonder what kinda structure the mgcp.conf is parsed into |
20:12.02 | rue_house | is there one function that parses all the conf files for asterisk, or does every module read its own config files? |
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20:15.51 | rue_house | wtf |
20:16.11 | rue_house | this copy of mgcp.c I'm looking at uses globals for the flags |
20:16.20 | rue_house | this cant handle multiple devices... |
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20:16.50 | kikohnl | from what version of asterisk ? |
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20:17.04 | rue_house | this is my home system, its old... |
20:17.23 | rue_house | Connected to Asterisk 1.6.0.22 currently running on phony2 |
20:19.05 | [TK]D-Fender | 2010-02-02 Leif Madsen <lmadsen@digium.com>* Release Asterisk 1.6.0.22 <- 3 years old. Asterisk 1.6.0, 1.6.1, 1.6.2 : NONE of these branches are supported. |
20:19.32 | rue_house | yea, I just said this is my home system and its old |
20:19.59 | rue_house | but, "nobody uses mgcp.conf" so its probably never been updated |
20:20.22 | [TK]D-Fender | rue_house: "probably" means you didn't bother to look. |
20:21.09 | rue_house | downloading new asterisk source just to find out, hmmmm... |
20:21.19 | rue_house | dont know if the answer is worth it... |
20:22.31 | [TK]D-Fender | rue_house: If there is something that can be identified as a bug in the latest currently support brances of Asterisk then a bug can be opened and something will probably be done about it. |
20:22.59 | rue_house | its obviously not a bug, its a feature |
20:26.25 | saint_ | so this is my 3rd asterisk installation over the week end. the 2 first one worked. This one drives me nuts. it is compiled and it is starting OK. But I do not see any sip registration coming in. I have no su linux, nor iptables going on. Anyone could give me a hint on how to fox taht ? thank you . |
20:26.51 | [TK]D-Fender | saint_: Show us actual comms it is doing. |
20:27.16 | saint_ | [TK]D-Fender: it's not showing anything in the logs. I have the basic of the basic installation .. |
20:27.19 | [TK]D-Fender | saint_: Along with firewall dumps, and a proper description of all the networking between your * and the public internet. |
20:27.31 | [TK]D-Fender | saint_: There is no such thing as "basic". |
20:27.42 | [TK]D-Fender | saitYou must be sending comms OUT for something. Show us that. |
20:28.50 | saint_ | [TK]D-Fender: there is no firewall, and it's all in the same 192.168.1.x network. I meant by compiled asterisk, installed it, it's running, and has 3 conf files: asterisk, indication, module, and sip .. |
20:29.21 | [TK]D-Fender | ~pb |
20:29.21 | infobot | A "pastebin" is a web-based service where you should paste anything over 3 lines so you don't flood the channel. Here are links to a few: http://www.pastebin.com, http://pastebin.ca, http://channels.debian.net/paste, http://paste.lisp.org, http://bin.cakephp.org/; or install pastebinit with yum or aptitude. |
20:29.24 | [TK]D-Fender | ^ |
20:29.50 | [TK]D-Fender | saitShow us your configs, give precise numbers. models of router's. What forwardeed, etc. Show us actual SIP comms of your * talking to the outside |
20:30.11 | *** join/#asterisk kikohnl (~keith@udp278022uds.hawaiiantel.net) |
20:31.00 | kikohnl | oh the joy's of Hawaii's third world electric company
everything not on ups or battery just when down.. ;-( |
20:35.02 | rue_house | I know the guy who used to maintain _THE_ hawii genorator |
20:35.15 | saint_ | On the Digium phones, is there a difference between the little icon in front of a line key, when the guy is white or black ? |
20:35.22 | saint_ | does it means that it is registered or not ? |
20:35.33 | saint_ | Is there any manual anywhere for those phones ? |
20:36.18 | [TK]D-Fender | saint_: Correct. It is the registration state |
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21:48.14 | danfromuk | Hi. What are the options with regards to operator panels? Ive seen isymphony which is good but pricey. Are there any other good/cheaper alternatives? |
21:49.41 | gavimobile | I need some help diagnosing why my google calendar will not show me my upcoming events! |
21:49.55 | gavimobile | can someone give me some pointers on where to look? |
22:00.10 | kikohnl | rue_house: I just rebuilt asterisk 11.2.1 with mgcp support, put your mgcp.conf file on my server it restarted, I see two gateways with four devices each |
22:02.17 | kikohnl | http://pastebin.com/TmLREB2Y |
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23:17.21 | rue_house | kikohnl, yes, the problem is trying to use them |
23:17.28 | rue_house | lets see what you did... |
23:18.06 | rue_house | I'll try that on mine and make sure the results are the same |
23:18.14 | rue_house | thanks |
23:18.22 | rue_house | 11.2! wow |
23:22.13 | [TK]D-Fender | So .... basically running a version that isn't 3 years old works? |
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23:44.42 | igcewieling | ASTOUNDING! |
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23:57.30 | kikohnl | on my system I get [Feb 3 11:56:22] WARNING[21571]: chan_mgcp.c:674 retrans_pkt: Maximum retries exceeded for transaction 1 on [VOG-A], but I don't have the hardware |