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| 03:57.45 | Juggie | anyone alive to answer a linking question w/ menuselect and all that jazz. |
| 04:21.06 | snuff-work | runs from mr menuselect |
| 04:23.26 | Juggie | hehe |
| 04:23.45 | Juggie | i figured it out, the installer for hiredis put the .so in the wrong dir |
| 04:23.51 | Juggie | it linked, but woudnt run. |
| 04:24.02 | snuff-work | ah |
| 04:25.21 | Juggie | trying to figure out what i should do. |
| 04:25.57 | Juggie | dialplan function wont work, so i'm gonna do a res_ i think. |
| 04:27.42 | Juggie | because all the commands wont necessairly be a set/get |
| 04:39.27 | Juggie | is AST_OPTIONAL_API_NAME what I use to export functions from eg a res_* to be used in another module? |
| 04:45.37 | snuff-work | i think.. see what other modules do ;) |
| 04:45.49 | Juggie | i can only find res_crypto doing it |
| 04:49.00 | Juggie | cdr_odbc and func_odbc use res_odbc so i'll go try and see whats going on there |
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| 08:05.19 | Corydon76-home | Juggie: partially. You also need to ensure that you modify the module flags to have global symbols |
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| 08:07.43 | schmidts | good morning |
| 08:09.06 | tzafrir | anybody else had firefox / iceweasel crash while attmpting to edit the ReviewBoard? |
| 08:12.14 | schmidts | tzafrir not lately but i had this once. which version do you use? |
| 08:12.37 | tzafrir | 4.0 (from experimental in Debian) |
| 08:13.37 | schmidts | hmm i didnt try 4.0 by now. i think i had this problem with 3.5 |
| 09:10.26 | tzafrir | Filed a bug with Debian. The maintainer pointed me to https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=629114 |
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| 13:53.42 | leifmadsen | russellb: ping when you get online |
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| 15:00.51 | russellb | leifmadsen: pong |
| 15:16.14 | leifmadsen | russellb: hey, I'll just talk to you on our call (or right after it) if that's ok |
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| 15:21.02 | russellb | leifmadsen: ok |
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| 15:30.02 | russellb | leifmadsen: actually i can't, i have some more conversations scheduled |
| 15:37.14 | JunK-Y | hi guys |
| 15:37.27 | JunK-Y | russellb: are you still doing ur master btw? |
| 15:38.49 | russellb | not really ... not enough time to do it |
| 15:42.46 | JunK-Y | yeah, i could imagine. things are crazy here, so i imagine this is probably 10x with you. |
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| 18:21.11 | leifmadsen | russellb: here, or 31337? |
| 18:21.13 | russellb | here! |
| 18:21.24 | russellb | so I have taken a look at your patch. R1181 |
| 18:21.31 | russellb | stares at MuffinMan |
| 18:21.35 | leifmadsen | R1181 |
| 18:21.40 | MuffinMan | [R1181] Move unsupported modules to their own directory [Pending] Submitted by lmadsen => https://reviewboard.asterisk.org/r/1181/ |
| 18:21.43 | russellb | yes, that. |
| 18:21.53 | russellb | so, I have thoughts! |
| 18:21.59 | leifmadsen | that's a start! :) |
| 18:22.06 | russellb | First, I like one suggestion someone made about s/unsupported/unmaintained/ |
| 18:22.13 | leifmadsen | agreed |
| 18:22.16 | leifmadsen | that is easy to do |
| 18:22.29 | russellb | k, now, I also think we should separate the concept of deprecated and unmaintained. |
| 18:22.36 | leifmadsen | also agreed! |
| 18:22.42 | russellb | they are separate concepts to me |
| 18:22.49 | leifmadsen | I'm on board |
| 18:23.16 | russellb | so, deprecated: still in the tree, but there is a better way to do it. We won't remove it for backwards compatibility reasons unless it's a large enough burden to maintain, in which case it will move to unmaintained. |
| 18:23.37 | russellb | unmaintained: This module may have known problems and has no maintainer. After some period of time in this state, a module may be completely removed from Asterisk. |
| 18:23.37 | leifmadsen | ok, that makes sense to me |
| 18:23.51 | leifmadsen | this feels like I should start a wiki page |
| 18:23.55 | russellb | yes |
| 18:24.31 | leifmadsen | started a personal space |
| 18:24.36 | russellb | fun |
| 18:24.50 | leifmadsen | this is a double shot in that I learn how to move things through the process of development -> draft -> publish |
| 18:26.57 | russellb | wiki pages you mean? |
| 18:27.14 | leifmadsen | yes |
| 18:27.17 | russellb | gotcha. |
| 18:27.27 | russellb | ok, so, once we agree on the states, then there's implementation details. |
| 18:27.28 | leifmadsen | I'm adding a page to my personal space and then will add a workflow to it |
| 18:27.35 | leifmadsen | yes, so what are your thoughts? |
| 18:27.58 | russellb | I'm thinking about the undesirable side effects of moving things |
| 18:28.13 | russellb | pain in merging when necessary ... churn on packaging potentially |
| 18:30.41 | leifmadsen | hmmm ok that makes sense |
| 18:31.14 | leifmadsen | so my approach right now is not the desirable way forward, that's fine |
| 18:32.06 | russellb | well, I thought it was, but after seeing some of the feedback, i'm changing my mind |
| 18:32.16 | leifmadsen | I started looking at how to create a new <deprecated>func_odbc</deprecated> MODULEINFO tag so that when you highlighted the module in menuselect you would see something like, "This module is deprecated. Please use ------" |
| 18:32.31 | russellb | this is why it's sometimes best to document an approach, throw it out there, and see what happens before actually doing the code part :-) |
| 18:32.37 | russellb | yes, that's what i was going to say next |
| 18:32.44 | russellb | perhaps MODULEINFO is where to put this metadata |
| 18:32.50 | leifmadsen | then <unmaintained>yes|no</unmaintained> |
| 18:33.09 | kpfleming | is packaging churn really an issue? this is only going to happen at major releases, right? |
| 18:33.09 | russellb | or just <deprecated/> |
| 18:33.16 | russellb | or <unmaintained/> |
| 18:33.18 | russellb | I don't really care |
| 18:33.30 | russellb | I guess to be consistent, <deprecated>yes</deprecated> is more in line with other stuff |
| 18:33.40 | leifmadsen | well for deprecated I think it'd be ideal to point them to the better module |
| 18:33.41 | russellb | kpfleming: yes, major releases only ... so maybe it's not |
| 18:33.53 | russellb | but the merging issue still sucks |
| 18:34.17 | leifmadsen | well this is my thought on that -- it may be that in LTS (which is 4 years long) we might want to set something to unmaintained during that time span |
| 18:34.33 | leifmadsen | maybe the person who was maintaining a module goes away, and no one else can maintain it (or is willing to) |
| 18:34.38 | russellb | yeah, i definintely don't want to move source files around in a release |
| 18:34.52 | leifmadsen | right, so MODULEINFO might be the less aggressive approach in that case |
| 18:34.55 | russellb | yep |
| 18:35.13 | russellb | so start a wiki page, document what these statuses mean, document how we notate the status in MODULEINFO |
| 18:35.17 | leifmadsen | if we went that approach, does that mean we can apply to 1.8? |
| 18:35.24 | russellb | and then we also need to look at how we want to convey this in the menuselect UI |
| 18:35.24 | leifmadsen | https://wiki.asterisk.org/wiki/display/~lmadsen/Asterisk+Module+Support+States |
| 18:35.34 | russellb | yes |
| 18:35.37 | russellb | re: 1.8 |
| 18:35.42 | leifmadsen | ok coolio |
| 18:35.46 | russellb | it's a menuselect code change probably, but who cares :-) |
| 18:35.50 | leifmadsen | :) |
| 18:37.23 | russellb | and I think you diving into menuselect to fix up the UI would be a good project if you're up for it |
| 18:37.44 | russellb | but start with just the design, use the gimp if you have to, what do you want it to look like? decide that before touching the code |
| 18:37.57 | russellb | and wiki it up |
| 18:38.07 | leifmadsen | sounds good, I'll keep working through this wiki and all that then |
| 18:38.14 | russellb | k! |
| 18:38.18 | russellb | thanks for spearheading this project |
| 18:38.23 | leifmadsen | I looked at menuselect earlier for adding the tags and got a bit confused, so will probably need some direction there |
| 18:38.30 | leifmadsen | np! it |
| 18:38.40 | leifmadsen | it's a project that directly affects my other work (for the better) |
| 18:38.42 | russellb | yeah, actually you're right, it's more than just UI changes, it's also menuselect core changes |
| 18:39.01 | leifmadsen | adding the <deprecated> tag got a bit more confusing than I thought it would be |
| 18:39.07 | russellb | yes |
| 18:39.14 | leifmadsen | I had to look at menuselect.c and all that |
| 18:39.15 | russellb | maybe you could talk seanbright into helping :-) |
| 18:39.27 | leifmadsen | that guy is kind of awesome so I'm sure he would be happy ot help |
| 18:41.01 | seanbright | heh |
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| 19:40.25 | leifmadsen | russellb: ok, I think I've added everything I want to add right now. |
| 19:40.45 | leifmadsen | For anyone who would like to review: https://wiki.asterisk.org/wiki/display/~lmadsen/Asterisk+Module+Support+States |
| 19:56.29 | russellb | leifmadsen: ha, app_queue unmaintained? :-) |
| 19:56.39 | russellb | leifmadsen: what about the libnewt UI? |
| 19:56.44 | leifmadsen | hmmm, good point |
| 19:56.46 | russellb | other than that, yes, i like it |
| 19:56.47 | leifmadsen | I didn't think of that |
| 19:57.07 | leifmadsen | russellb: I just picked the first application that had output on the third line (at the bottom) |
| 19:57.22 | leifmadsen | like how app_queue was deprecated by app_superQ? :) |
| 19:58.31 | russellb | indeed |
| 19:59.05 | leifmadsen | time to compile in libnewt awesomesauce |
| 19:59.20 | jsmith | I was hoping it would be replaced by AsteriskSCF queue magic :-) |
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| 20:32.55 | leifmadsen | russellb: btw -- complete |
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| 21:44.21 | russellb | leifmadsen: ship it |
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| 21:48.53 | alecdavis | m18654 |
| 21:48.56 | MuffinMan | [ready for testing] [Asterisk] Features 0018654: [patch] [regression] Call Pickup Hangs Asterisk (deadlock?) reported by Docent https://issues.asterisk.org/view.php?id=18654 |
| 21:50.00 | alecdavis | @bbryant: ^^ did you test with the pickupsounds enabled? I didn't have time this morning to check all options out. |
| 21:50.31 | bbryant | alecdavis: yes, I had them enabled as I was testing |
| 21:50.37 | leifmadsen | russellb: awesome, next step tomorrow is it figure out how to make the changes I've proposed :) |
| 21:51.48 | russellb | yup |
| 21:52.27 | wedhorn | leifmadsen russellb: and to what, where does "sort of maintained" fit??? |
| 21:52.46 | russellb | heh, example? |
| 21:53.02 | wedhorn | skinny. You couldn't guess? |
| 21:53.06 | russellb | I figured. |
| 21:53.35 | russellb | In reality, there are different levels of maintenance and different priorities within the "fully maintained" category |
| 21:53.37 | leifmadsen | who maintains / patches skinny? |
| 21:53.53 | wedhorn | me, sort of, but really only in trunk |
| 21:53.58 | leifmadsen | and just because something is marked as 'unmaintained' it doesn't mean it CAN'T be patched :) |
| 21:54.00 | alecdavis | @bbryant: and you didn't move the masquerade around in ast_pickup_call? |
| 21:54.15 | russellb | i would say that because of your efforts (and some others), chan_skinny has a firm spot in maintained |
| 21:54.18 | leifmadsen | it just sets a realistic set of expectations |
| 21:54.28 | russellb | and enough people seem to care that i'm not willing to call it unmaintained |
| 21:54.30 | leifmadsen | my list is not definitive :) |
| 21:54.39 | russellb | now it's also further down digium's priority list ... but it's not off of the list |
| 21:54.54 | russellb | lots of gray area, for sure |
| 21:54.58 | leifmadsen | Asterisk: The Definitive Guide As Far As We Know |
| 21:55.16 | wedhorn | yep, but that's where the implementation bit comes in, how will those tags impact on other things? |
| 21:55.29 | leifmadsen | you tell me :) |
| 21:55.31 | russellb | hm? |
| 21:55.45 | russellb | i would say something has to be _very_ firmly in the unsupported category to get tagged that way |
| 21:55.54 | russellb | don't take the list on leifmadsen's review as _the_ list |
| 21:56.05 | leifmadsen | right -- it was only my suggestion based on what I've seen on the bug tracker |
| 21:56.10 | leifmadsen | it's open to discussion |
| 21:56.19 | leifmadsen | you've already convinced the only man that matters :) |
| 21:56.25 | russellb | most of the things you said are candidates for "deprecated", but certainly not unmaintained |
| 21:56.30 | leifmadsen | re: chan_skinny |
| 21:56.32 | wedhorn | no, I wasn't, just throwing some of the difficulties in there |
| 21:56.32 | russellb | very few things fall into unmaintained in my book |
| 21:56.39 | russellb | much appreciated |
| 21:56.43 | russellb | ask questions, poke holes |
| 21:56.49 | russellb | that's how we eventually arrive at a good endpoint |
| 21:57.03 | leifmadsen | I would suggest something can't be marked as 'deprecated' unless there is an alternative |
| 21:57.21 | wedhorn | basically, I think that saying skinny is unmaintained is reasonable, but for example I wouldn't want to specifically need to select it to be built |
| 21:57.37 | leifmadsen | o.O |
| 21:57.50 | leifmadsen | runs off to shower so he can head to the chiropractors |
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| 21:59.29 | russellb | chan_skinny doesn't fall into my category of unmaintained, because we're not going to remove it, there are people that care and do work on it now and then |
| 21:59.48 | russellb | we could consider another category ... third party maintained? |
| 22:00.15 | wedhorn | could be an idea |
| 22:00.27 | russellb | maintained, but primarily by 3rd parties (not really digium, or anyone working on things full time), so the frequency of development and maintenance is undefined |
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| 22:00.43 | russellb | that could cover chan_skinny, maybe some other things |
| 22:00.57 | russellb | chan_ooh323 would be another example of that |
| 22:01.00 | wedhorn | maybe highlighting that the step into unmaintained is the beginning of removal rather than just a state of affairs |
| 22:01.19 | wedhorn | leifmadsen: ^^^ |
| 22:07.22 | leifmadsen | russellb: that third category would be ok with me -- it's the same thing as dahdi-freebds |
| 22:07.26 | leifmadsen | dahdi-freebsd |
| 22:07.43 | leifmadsen | I'm still not even convinced we should really ever remove anything |
| 22:08.12 | leifmadsen | unless of course it doesn't compile or work at all, and no one is willing to fix it so it does (i.e. a module that no longer works with Asterisk 1.14 or something) |
| 22:08.44 | russellb | yeah. |
| 22:08.57 | russellb | though having to even just make things compile is sometimes a burden |
| 22:09.04 | russellb | for example, chan_h323 and the work that has gone into 1.10 |
| 22:09.07 | leifmadsen | in which case we can remove it between major releases |
| 22:09.10 | russellb | hugely invasive changes ... |
| 22:09.31 | russellb | right, only between major releases would something actually get removed (usually, i reserve the right to change my mind :-p ) |
| 22:09.32 | leifmadsen | at least that's a reasonable time to have the discussion about changing the maintenance burden |
| 22:10.21 | leifmadsen | something could be moved to unmaintained (and back) within a branch (1.8 for example, which is LTS) easily enough based on the method we're going to employ |
| 22:10.39 | leifmadsen | it's just a MODULEINFO tag which is easy to modify |
| 22:10.41 | russellb | nods |
| 22:11.13 | leifmadsen | so I'm not really all that concerned about all the little edge cases |
| 22:11.32 | leifmadsen | I'd rather not get to the point where each module has some "grey" term |
| 22:11.46 | leifmadsen | "Sorta Maintained When Someone Has Time" |
| 22:11.53 | leifmadsen | I'd rather not end up with that tag |
| 22:12.32 | leifmadsen | if someone is even remotely looking at issues and supplying patches (even if there is months of delay) I consider that maintained |
| 22:12.55 | russellb | that would be thirdparty maintained :-) |
| 22:13.17 | leifmadsen | unmaintained to me, is something like chan_h323 where it probably doesn't even work anymore, and you should use chan_ooh323 (3rd party maintained) |
| 22:13.28 | russellb | yes. |
| 22:14.08 | russellb | i guess the question is, do we need yet another line between chan_sip, app_dial, app_queue, etc., and chan_ooh323, chan_skinny, chan_unistim, ... |
| 22:14.19 | russellb | 2 tiers of maintained :-) |
| 22:14.25 | leifmadsen | app_db is definitely deprecated, but could be argued to be unmaintained as well, but I don't think it matters too much which category it is in (I would put it in deprecated just because it's easy enough to point somewhere else) |
| 22:14.46 | russellb | we would fix app_db if it was broken ... i can't imagine it would be |
| 22:14.56 | leifmadsen | right, ok, so deprecated |
| 22:15.01 | russellb | yes |
| 22:15.03 | leifmadsen | ok, so the question is... what IS unmaintained right now :) |
| 22:15.09 | russellb | chan_h323 |
| 22:15.12 | leifmadsen | ok |
| 22:15.12 | russellb | app_rpt |
| 22:15.15 | russellb | chan_nbs |
| 22:15.16 | leifmadsen | +1 |
| 22:15.19 | russellb | chan_vpb |
| 22:15.23 | russellb | chan_usbradio |
| 22:15.25 | leifmadsen | I was just typing that, heh |
| 22:15.28 | russellb | app_alarmreceiver |
| 22:15.34 | leifmadsen | ok cool, so that category is relevant |
| 22:15.45 | russellb | chan_modem (do we still have that?) |
| 22:15.47 | leifmadsen | 3rd party maintained, deprecated, unmaintained, supported |
| 22:15.53 | leifmadsen | I think chan_modem got removed in 1.8 |
| 22:15.58 | russellb | k |
| 22:16.00 | russellb | then yes |
| 22:16.02 | leifmadsen | ok I have a new idea |
| 22:16.05 | russellb | ORLY |
| 22:16.09 | file | awaits the idea |
| 22:16.12 | leifmadsen | <support>unmaintained</support> |
| 22:16.19 | leifmadsen | <support>3rd party</support> |
| 22:16.20 | leifmadsen | etc |
| 22:16.29 | leifmadsen | <support_level> |
| 22:16.31 | leifmadsen | whatever you want |
| 22:16.36 | russellb | is there a better XMLish way to represent an enum? |
| 22:16.48 | leifmadsen | yes? :) |
| 22:16.51 | russellb | i don't know |
| 22:16.53 | leifmadsen | there must be |
| 22:16.58 | russellb | maybe you can do something with the dtd |
| 22:17.00 | leifmadsen | I bet we have an example in the xmldocs in source right now |
| 22:17.01 | russellb | shrugs |
| 22:17.07 | russellb | yeah |
| 22:17.52 | russellb | once you decide on the final xml part, i'll hack the core menuselect code for you |
| 22:17.53 | leifmadsen | <PROTECTED> |
| 22:17.55 | russellb | and you can hack the UI code to display it |
| 22:17.57 | russellb | deal? :-) |
| 22:18.03 | leifmadsen | works for me! |
| 22:18.05 | russellb | k |
| 22:18.08 | jsmith | works for me too! |
| 22:18.14 | russellb | yay |
| 22:18.16 | leifmadsen | motion carried |
| 22:18.18 | jsmith | wishes he had time to be part of the party |
| 22:18.36 | russellb | jsmith: you have a permanent honory spot in the party :-) |
| 22:18.41 | russellb | honorary... |
| 22:19.22 | jsmith | Awesome :-) |
| 22:19.28 | leifmadsen | I can get danielle to make a life size cutout of jsmith to put in the corner, just like we did for our friend jared at a wedding video shoot |
| 22:19.37 | russellb | ha |
| 22:19.44 | leifmadsen | (I'm not even kidding, heh) |
| 22:19.50 | jsmith | leifmadsen: Awesome :-) |
| 22:20.06 | leifmadsen | ok, danielle is home, so I'm off to the chiro |
| 22:20.20 | russellb | enjoy |
| 22:20.28 | jsmith | leifmadsen: Oooh, lovely! |
| 23:03.54 | *** join/#asterisk-dev michael-i (~michael@204.11.230.58) |
| 23:36.01 | *** join/#asterisk-dev tzafrir_laptop (~tzafrir@212.179.75.202) |
| 23:36.01 | *** mode/#asterisk-dev [+o tzafrir_laptop] by ChanServ |
| 23:37.09 | tzafrir_laptop | leifmadsen, is the URL you sent the list world-readable? |
| 23:37.33 | tzafrir_laptop | I'm not logged on to the wiki ATM, and it asks me to login to see it |
| 23:45.56 | *** part/#asterisk-dev rgagnon (~rgagnon@rrcs-71-42-183-54.sw.biz.rr.com) |
| 23:46.13 | *** part/#asterisk-dev sruffell (~Adium@asterisk/the-kernel-guy/sruffell) |
| 23:59.02 | leifmadsen | tzafrir_laptop: no, you need to be logged into the wiki |