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| 02:27.55 | jsolis | hey guys i have a problem when i make asterisk "âCLI_INITâ undeclared (first use in this function)" |
| 02:28.53 | russellb | is it your module? |
| 02:29.06 | russellb | which module is failing to build, and in what asterisk version? |
| 02:29.21 | russellb | that specific error would be fixed by including cli.h |
| 02:29.30 | russellb | unless you're trying to compile a 1.6 module in 1.4 |
| 02:29.59 | jsolis | i use version 1.4.19.1 |
| 02:33.19 | Juggie | my gf is trying to teach her mom to use google docs over the phone |
| 02:33.28 | Juggie | its torture just listening, i want to pull my hair out |
| 02:34.39 | russellb | doesn't know how to use it |
| 02:34.44 | russellb | maybe she can call me next :-p |
| 02:34.48 | jsolis | hahaha se sufre pero se aprende |
| 02:35.17 | Juggie | hah |
| 02:35.25 | Juggie | i'm sure you would be able to figure out |
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| 11:43.50 | tzafrir_laptop | Is there any RSS feed for zaptel commits? I see http://cia.vc/stats/project/asterisk for Asterisk |
| 11:55.56 | mvanbaak | hhmm, I wonder if the cia post commit hook is still enabled |
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| 12:16.36 | snuff-home | mornin russ |
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| 12:18.49 | russellb | g'morning |
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| 12:36.27 | tzanger | morning |
| 12:42.18 | jeremy_g | does asterisk support IM and presence |
| 12:42.26 | jeremy_g | morning tzanger |
| 12:42.39 | snuff-home | mm closest thing to that would be jabber |
| 12:43.10 | snuff-home | presence can be done with * manager module for openfire.. |
| 12:43.27 | snuff-home | haven't used it in a while.. |
| 12:43.27 | mvanbaak | hey russellb |
| 12:44.09 | jeremy_g | does asterisk support video telephony |
| 12:44.18 | mvanbaak | russellb: how should we get the feedback/ok on the xml format for appdocsxml branch ? |
| 12:44.24 | snuff-home | yes it can bridge 2 |
| 12:45.02 | mvanbaak | bkruse got the register_application stuff working yesterday. It would be nice if we can start converting more files |
| 12:45.08 | snuff-home | jeremy_g: trunk has many things.. but i seem to remember 1.4 as 1st to support video |
| 12:45.30 | russellb | mvanbaak: -dev list |
| 12:45.46 | mvanbaak | I'm not really working on converting before we get an ok. not looking forward at doing it all over again ;) |
| 12:45.58 | russellb | i completely understand |
| 12:46.17 | russellb | a post to -dev, with links to where to view the spec for the format, and some examples, would be great |
| 12:46.25 | mvanbaak | ok. will have to write an email to the list |
| 12:46.39 | russellb | k |
| 12:46.49 | mvanbaak | thanks |
| 12:47.08 | mvanbaak | it's very nice what we have already |
| 12:48.39 | russellb | great to hear |
| 12:52.58 | snuff-home | not much for the 'thread safe' getvar left |
| 12:54.10 | mvanbaak | soon we have webbased documentation of the applications and functions |
| 12:54.11 | mvanbaak | :) |
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| 12:57.25 | snuff-home | mm will be good |
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| 13:04.41 | seanbright | sup bitches? |
| 13:04.42 | seanbright | :) |
| 13:05.10 | mvanbaak | yo homeboy |
| 13:05.11 | snuff-home | deciding on how to thread safe part of 'features.c' |
| 13:05.23 | seanbright | word. |
| 13:06.07 | mvanbaak | cant wait till work is over |
| 13:06.16 | seanbright | same here... and i just walked in :-/ |
| 13:06.26 | mvanbaak | I have some ideas for a webbased documentation script in team/group/appdocsxml |
| 13:06.47 | snuff-home | well.. work is well n truely over here.. 23:10 |
| 13:07.33 | seanbright | it's almost tomorrow already! |
| 13:07.49 | snuff-home | mm tis |
| 13:09.50 | mvanbaak | Tue Jul 8 15:09:50 CEST 2008 |
| 13:10.09 | seanbright | Tue Jul 8 09:09:58 EDT 2008 |
| 13:10.39 | seanbright | hrmmm |
| 13:10.51 | seanbright | how do i make an /exec go to the channel? |
| 13:12.03 | seanbright | Tue Jul 8 09:12:02 EDT 2008 |
| 13:12.06 | seanbright | ahh. -out |
| 13:12.07 | seanbright | word. |
| 13:12.18 | mvanbaak | <PROTECTED> |
| 13:13.06 | snuff-home | Tue Jul 8 23:16:30 EST 2008 |
| 13:13.35 | seanbright | ./exec -o lsof |
| 13:13.37 | seanbright | heh |
| 13:13.40 | mvanbaak | whehehe |
| 13:14.09 | mvanbaak | or something like: -o while true; echo "I'm lame"; done |
| 13:14.23 | seanbright | yeah, that'd be awesome. |
| 13:23.50 | seanbright | hmm, we need a tool in repotools to generate commit templates from the command line |
| 13:24.02 | russellb | looks at file |
| 13:24.09 | russellb | he's the command line mantis tool madman |
| 13:24.11 | russellb | :) |
| 13:24.22 | seanbright | well i need to learn python |
| 13:24.28 | russellb | actually, that would be tricky |
| 13:24.31 | file | 'tis difficult |
| 13:24.38 | russellb | there is to web way to look up license number |
| 13:24.43 | seanbright | ahh |
| 13:24.54 | russellb | and the list of patches ... associating them with who uploaded them ... |
| 13:25.10 | russellb | basically, you should add a simple web service to mantis for getting the info you want |
| 13:25.18 | seanbright | right |
| 13:25.24 | russellb | and have it authenticated |
| 13:25.38 | seanbright | yikes |
| 13:25.43 | seanbright | changes his mind |
| 13:25.44 | seanbright | heh |
| 13:25.46 | russellb | can't have that info wide open |
| 13:25.47 | russellb | :) |
| 13:26.04 | russellb | well, it just feels wrong, anyway |
| 13:26.26 | seanbright | the license number is 'private'? |
| 13:26.32 | russellb | another tricky part, licenses have time associated with them, too |
| 13:26.43 | russellb | you have to check the upload time vs. the timeframe that a license has been on file |
| 13:26.50 | russellb | you can have a license, and then revoke it, for example |
| 13:26.58 | russellb | but code uploaded during that timeframe is still ok |
| 13:27.14 | russellb | seanbright: i guess not ... but being able to query every username to see who has one or not seems kind of bad |
| 13:27.25 | seanbright | well if there was a .php file that used the same logic as the existing commit message template code, that would do the trick |
| 13:27.36 | russellb | nods |
| 13:27.54 | seanbright | now i have to install mantis. i'm silly. |
| 13:37.50 | sergee | does anybody interested in "dynamic contexts"? |
| 13:40.08 | sergee | right now to operate with realtime extensions we need to create context in extensions.conf first. |
| 13:40.22 | sergee | then we need to put switch=> there |
| 13:40.30 | sergee | and then we need to reload dialplan |
| 13:41.58 | sergee | what if we had an option in extensions.conf which would allow us to autoswitch to realtime engine, even if there is no context in extensions.conf? |
| 13:42.04 | sergee | any thoughts? |
| 13:43.56 | file | overrideswitch |
| 13:45.23 | sergee | file: oops, i'm reinveting wheel over and over again :) |
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| 13:51.09 | mvanbaak | hhmm |
| 13:51.34 | mvanbaak | for some reason 1.6 does not like my 'register => username:pass@sip-itsp/013' line |
| 13:52.14 | mvanbaak | it shows: sip_parse_host: 'pass@sip-itsp' is not a valid port number |
| 13:52.29 | mvanbaak | like, wtf |
| 13:52.56 | mvanbaak | I tried adding :5060 to sip-itsp but no difference |
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| 13:58.01 | seanbright | it's treating the colon as a port delimiter |
| 13:58.02 | russellb | that code just recently changed |
| 13:58.09 | russellb | tell bbryant to fix it when he gets in, heh |
| 13:58.19 | mvanbaak | I will |
| 13:58.27 | mvanbaak | or I fix it before he gets in :) |
| 13:58.48 | russellb | that works too, heh |
| 13:59.50 | seanbright | sweet... only 1300 more years until the rc5-72 project is done |
| 14:01.52 | seanbright | adding a udp:// in front of it might work... |
| 14:02.54 | seanbright | i could very well be talking out of my ass, too. |
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| 14:05.31 | mvanbaak | seanbright: that I already tried |
| 14:10.41 | sergee | file: overrideswitch won't work if context doesn't exist in extensions.conf |
| 14:11.42 | tzafrir_laptop | sruffell, ping |
| 14:12.01 | sergee | tzafrir_laptop: hi there! |
| 14:12.12 | sruffell | good morning tzafrir_laptop |
| 14:12.12 | tzafrir_laptop | hi here! |
| 14:12.35 | sergee | tzafrir_laptop: do you have any plans about merging overrideswitch from trunk to 1.6.0 ? |
| 14:13.25 | tzafrir_laptop | err... what is overrideswitch? |
| 14:13.38 | sruffell | and I was just about to ask the same question... |
| 14:14.24 | file | if overrideswitch did not make it for 1.6.0 then it will be in 1.6.1 |
| 14:14.59 | tzafrir_laptop | sruffell, I was wonderring if we can avoid this MODULES="$MODULES foo" # in /etc/dahdi/init.conf |
| 14:15.24 | sruffell | Did you want to keep it out completely, or just use a different syntax? |
| 14:15.40 | tzafrir_laptop | jbot, overrideswitch is something that will not make it into asterisk 1.6.0 |
| 14:15.41 | jbot | tzafrir_laptop: okay |
| 14:16.35 | tzafrir_laptop | a different syntax, like in /etc/modules: |
| 14:17.01 | tzafrir_laptop | MODULES=`cat /etc/dahdi/modules` # maybe allow comments: |
| 14:18.10 | tzafrir_laptop | MODULES=`sed -e 's/#.*$//' /etc/dahdi/modules` |
| 14:21.12 | sruffell | hmm....and then only installing the modules that would actually be in use at the time of install (or just accept that all the modules will be loaded by default) |
| 14:21.13 | sruffell | ? |
| 14:21.19 | sruffell | ...thinking... |
| 14:30.16 | tzafrir_laptop | This is to make it possible to edit the list of modules in some other tools and scripts |
| 14:30.29 | tzafrir_laptop | e.g.: GUI of choice |
| 14:30.39 | sruffell | ahh....I'm with you now. |
| 14:30.58 | sruffell | I was thinking you wanted to scan the install directory...not use a separate file with just a list of module names. |
| 14:31.03 | sruffell | I'm game for that... |
| 14:31.09 | sruffell | kpfleming: ^^^ |
| 14:31.21 | kpfleming | yeah, i've been watching, that seems like a good plan |
| 14:31.44 | kpfleming | might want to use a while/read loop in the init script to read the lines instead of relying on sed; other init scripts do that |
| 14:32.11 | kpfleming | also, we're going to have to write some stuff in the UPGRADE file to tell people about what they will need to do after installing DAHDI to get it to work |
| 14:32.23 | kpfleming | we still need to install the 'blacklist all modules' file too |
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| 14:32.46 | tzafrir_laptop | such a loop might be better if we want to add some more information in that line |
| 14:32.55 | kpfleming | yes |
| 14:33.00 | tzafrir_laptop | e.g: extra parameters for the module |
| 14:33.05 | kpfleming | exactly |
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| 14:33.15 | sruffell | regarding the blacklist.....I'll have to check to make sure I know where those files are maintained in all the distributions that we support....I couldn't tell you off the top of my head. |
| 14:33.26 | kpfleming | /etc/modules.d/*, as far as i know |
| 14:33.39 | tzafrir_laptop | mostly /etc/modprobe.d |
| 14:33.40 | kpfleming | oops... /etc/modprobe.d/* |
| 14:34.11 | sruffell | ok..that is what I thought...just wasn't sure if that was common on all dists. |
| 14:35.22 | kpfleming | it looks like modprobe searches there without being told, as least on debian, so as long as the standard module-init-tools package modprobe works that way, then all distros should be the same |
| 14:36.26 | tzafrir_laptop | centos4 does not have modprobe.d by default |
| 14:36.48 | tzafrir_laptop | I'm not sure exactly what happens if you have both modprobe.conf and modprobe.d |
| 14:36.56 | kpfleming | modprobe will look there |
| 14:37.12 | tzafrir_laptop | IIRC modprobe.conf should be used solely . But then this is not what happens on centos5 |
| 14:38.54 | sruffell | ...or Fedora Core 5-8 |
| 14:39.25 | ctooley | russellb, Did the SVN issue with Fedora 9 every get worked out? |
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| 14:39.51 | russellb | ctooley: no, but it happens in debian unstable now, too. i just a couple minutes ago pulled the issue back up ... |
| 14:39.58 | russellb | ctooley: i'm going to try again ... |
| 14:40.21 | kpfleming | it's been happening in sid for a long time... that's the big reason that made me switch off of it |
| 14:40.23 | ctooley | Yay! At least it's in a distro that causes motivation now. :) |
| 14:40.24 | russellb | ctooley: happened to file. he fixed it for him by rebuilding svn from source against openssl instead of gnutls. so that is the recommended workaround for now. :) |
| 14:40.36 | file | recommended, ha |
| 14:40.40 | ctooley | oh, goodie. |
| 14:40.43 | file | I just don't have time to mess with things :P |
| 14:40.48 | ctooley | I think I'll continue to proxy |
| 14:40.49 | russellb | kpfleming: oh, that's right, i forgot. I didn't realize that your problem was the same one |
| 14:40.56 | kpfleming | yep |
| 14:41.13 | kpfleming | but i'm much happier with kubuntu now |
| 14:41.17 | russellb | hehe |
| 14:41.24 | russellb | until kubuntu gets the broken svn stuff ... |
| 14:41.29 | sruffell | also, with regard to the using /etc/dahdi/modules...we could allow module parameters to be placed there. Although I'll don't think it's good to have multiple places for those things, but it's a possibility to consider and probably decide against. |
| 14:41.33 | russellb | i think we can fix it, i'm just an openssl nub |
| 14:41.44 | russellb | i've wasted a lot of hours trying to figure it out :( |
| 14:42.06 | russellb | i think i'm close, but i think i need to get the modified certificate properly signed using the CA cert ... |
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| 14:46.02 | tzafrir_laptop | BTW: a new version of udev was finally merged to sid |
| 14:46.39 | tzafrir_laptop | So Debian Unstables will finally see issues that have troubled Ubuntus and probably also Fedoras |
| 14:48.46 | sruffell | what issues are you referring to? |
| 14:51.05 | tzafrir_laptop | I faintly recall some udev-related issues in Ubuntu |
| 14:51.20 | kpfleming | sruffell: if we never had module parameters in /etc/modprobe.conf or /etc/modprobe.d/*, then there will be only one place for the module parameters, in /etc/dahdi/modules |
| 14:51.40 | kpfleming | but i think i understand your point... the users might think they are supposed to put them in /etc/modprobe.conf or similar |
| 14:51.43 | tzafrir_laptop | changes of the rules file syntax or something |
| 14:53.26 | tzafrir_laptop | This implies that you have to black list them in the "danger" of them getting hotplugged at startup |
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| 14:53.51 | kpfleming | that is correct, that's what we've been talking about |
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| 14:54.23 | tzafrir_laptop | right |
| 14:54.58 | sruffell | But then when we implement Oron's suggestions, we would need to move the parameters back to the default location if we want the hotplug system to work. |
| 14:55.45 | kpfleming | why is that? |
| 14:55.53 | kpfleming | oh, i see what you mean |
| 14:55.59 | kpfleming | once the module load order is no longer imporant |
| 14:56.04 | kpfleming | yeah, that sounds ugly |
| 14:56.25 | kpfleming | although the existing init script supports module parameters |
| 14:56.35 | sruffell | ...lol...I didn't know that. |
| 14:56.45 | kpfleming | yeah, look at the example init.conf |
| 14:57.07 | kpfleming | wct4xxp_ARGS=" ... " |
| 14:59.52 | sruffell | hmm....well, then it's not so cut and dry...is that something we still want to support? |
| 15:00.05 | sruffell | (not putting in a feature is a lot easier than taking one out) |
| 15:00.48 | kpfleming | it's going to be a bit confusing for users if we tell them to put module parameters into /etc/modprobe.d/dahdi but we've also got a /etc/modprobe.d/dahdi-blacklist file to keep them from being automatically loaded |
| 15:00.58 | kpfleming | but if we document why we are doing that, it might be acceptable |
| 15:01.20 | tzafrir_laptop | This duplicates system settings (modprobe.d / modprobe.conf) and thus a different behaviour from modprobing them manually |
| 15:01.33 | mvanbaak | I'm going home, latero all |
| 15:01.46 | kpfleming | yeah, let's remove that from the init script |
| 15:01.54 | kpfleming | and just document how to do it in /etc/modprobe.d |
| 15:02.52 | sruffell | got it |
| 15:04.02 | sruffell | so far: 1) remove parameters from the init script and 2) use a separate file that just contains the list of files to load. |
| 15:04.08 | kpfleming | yes |
| 15:04.17 | kpfleming | and a blacklist file to keep the modules from being automatically loaded |
| 15:04.34 | sruffell | ok |
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| 15:37.30 | mvanbaak | honey, I'm hooooooooooome ! |
| 15:39.08 | outtolunc | psst, get your clothes and run out the back |
| 15:40.56 | mvanbaak | lol |
| 15:43.55 | *** join/#asterisk-dev kamanashisroy (n=kamanash@202.56.7.193) |
| 15:50.32 | jsmith | mvanbaak: I'll have some comments for you later on the appdocsxml branch... just playing around with it now |
| 15:52.01 | *** join/#asterisk-dev joetester2 (n=chatzill@216.191.34.13) |
| 16:00.05 | *** join/#asterisk-dev uTx (n=unix@modemcable074.229-82-70.mc.videotron.ca) |
| 16:01.16 | uTx | hello I need someone to program a new fuction in asterisk |
| 16:01.26 | uTx | not sure if I should be asking here |
| 16:01.36 | kpfleming | we've already programmed many new functions in Asterisk |
| 16:02.10 | russellb | ha |
| 16:02.17 | russellb | ~ask |
| 16:02.18 | jbot | extra, extra, read all about it, ask is Questions in the channel should be specific, informative, complete, concise, and on-topic. Don't ask if you can ask a question first. Don't ask if a person is there; just ask what you intended to ask them. Better questions more frequently yield better answers. We are all here voluntarily or against our will. |
| 16:02.24 | uTx | this is a custom one |
| 16:02.34 | Qwell | They're all custom |
| 16:02.35 | uTx | and I don't want anything for free |
| 16:02.44 | uTx | but they are all free |
| 16:02.47 | Qwell | uTx: be specific |
| 16:02.48 | uTx | mine is not |
| 16:03.01 | uTx | I will pay someone |
| 16:03.10 | uTx | who can make asterisk do this |
| 16:03.18 | uTx | when I call someone |
| 16:03.18 | Qwell | do WHAT? |
| 16:03.26 | uTx | let the caller know |
| 16:03.31 | russellb | please type an entire thought before pressing enter |
| 16:03.32 | uTx | when ringing |
| 16:03.36 | uTx | say ringing |
| 16:03.38 | russellb | omfg |
| 16:03.42 | Qwell | ~enter |
| 16:03.42 | jbot | the enter key is not a substitute for punctuation. Use a period '.', exclamation mark '!', question mark '?', comma ',', colon ':', semi-colon ';' emdash '--', or ellipsis '...' instead. |
| 16:03.43 | uTx | when connected say connneted |
| 16:03.55 | uTx | that's |
| 16:03.56 | uTx | it |
| 16:04.14 | Qwell | what's it? |
| 16:04.21 | uTx | that what I need |
| 16:04.22 | Qwell | You just described the Dial application |
| 16:04.25 | russellb | that's already possible, try #asterisk |
| 16:04.54 | uTx | but I need it as a message to the caller |
| 16:05.01 | russellb | #asterisk |
| 16:05.03 | *** join/#asterisk-dev oron (n=oron@local.xorcom.com) |
| 16:05.14 | tzafrir_laptop | hi Oron! |
| 16:05.29 | uTx | I need the state of the call |
| 16:05.35 | *** mode/#asterisk-dev [+b %uTx!*@*] by russellb |
| 16:05.42 | russellb | i said please go to #asterisk |
| 16:05.57 | oron | hi |
| 16:07.51 | mvanbaak | jsmith: all feedback is welcome |
| 16:17.48 | *** part/#asterisk-dev oron (n=oron@local.xorcom.com) |
| 16:30.51 | mvanbaak | ok, mail to -dev sent |
| 16:32.31 | *** join/#asterisk-dev M1s3ry (n=M1s3ry@216.207.245.1) |
| 16:35.59 | russellb | yay. |
| 16:36.32 | *** join/#asterisk-dev Schmooze (n=Schmooze@rrcs-67-53-189-178.west.biz.rr.com) |
| 16:36.58 | mvanbaak | gheh, I have dutch help text on 'core show application ChanIsAvail' |
| 16:37.03 | mvanbaak | sweet |
| 16:37.09 | russellb | that's awesome :) |
| 16:37.22 | JerJer | what does it really mean when we see the 'unable to handle indication X from [whatever]' - I have a system here that randomly can't handle indication from an acme - yet i see nothing different in a 180/183 that it can handle versus it cannot handle |
| 16:37.24 | mvanbaak | yup |
| 16:37.39 | mvanbaak | going to write a php webthingie now |
| 16:37.39 | JerJer | ok - its always indication 3 |
| 16:39.00 | caio1982 | mvanbaak: i'm really anxious to read your message on -dev :) |
| 16:39.20 | mvanbaak | it's not showing up in my mutt yet |
| 16:40.23 | caio1982 | it's here, awesome |
| 16:41.21 | mvanbaak | hurray |
| 16:44.25 | mvanbaak | feedback is welcome |
| 16:45.25 | russellb | you should say, feedback is unwelcome, i'm doing whatever i want, and screw you guys |
| 16:45.34 | mvanbaak | whehehehehe |
| 16:45.58 | mvanbaak | as soon as we have an agreement on the format I'm going to do that |
| 16:46.03 | russellb | <PROTECTED> |
| 16:46.35 | mvanbaak | you're an idiot. Do you even know what XML is ? |
| 16:46.36 | mvanbaak | ;) |
| 16:49.00 | russellb | i guess i don't :( |
| 16:49.27 | mvanbaak | indeed. the whole menuconfig stuff is borked because of thet |
| 16:49.30 | mvanbaak | hides |
| 16:50.28 | mvanbaak | I'm learning my two cats xml so they can do the conversion of all the apps and functions ;) |
| 16:51.06 | Qwell | mvanbaak: do you have an XSLT for this? |
| 16:51.21 | mvanbaak | er, nope |
| 16:51.28 | mvanbaak | but soon I'll have a php parser ;) |
| 16:51.36 | mvanbaak | we should create a DTD for it |
| 17:00.20 | *** join/#asterisk-dev jsolis (n=jimmy@190.232.169.147) |
| 17:05.20 | JerJer | segfaults |
| 17:06.47 | tzafrir_laptop | mvanbaak, please do post some technical details . Your post and the doc leave too many open questions for those who will not read the source |
| 17:07.51 | caio1982 | true, i just wanted to ask how the multilang support works but decided to wait for more details |
| 17:08.02 | mvanbaak | ok |
| 17:08.21 | mvanbaak | the two links in there are not enough eh ? |
| 17:09.15 | caio1982 | to decide about the xml parser and the format i guess so |
| 17:09.54 | tzafrir_laptop | The doc basically defines the format. But what do you do with the documentation? |
| 17:10.22 | tzafrir_laptop | I asked on the list as well. |
| 17:11.25 | mvanbaak | I see |
| 17:11.28 | mvanbaak | I'll reply there |
| 17:12.21 | tzafrir_laptop | There is one atvantage to providing a link to /svn rather than to /view - you can fix the code (or doc) and noone who followed that link will know that there was an earlier version ;-) |
| 17:14.01 | putnopvut | clever |
| 17:14.11 | *** join/#asterisk-dev _ys (n=yuri@236-069.nat.mns.ru) |
| 17:18.06 | *** join/#asterisk-dev anonymouz666 (n=anonymou@201.19.228.111) |
| 17:19.14 | mvanbaak | that's why I used the link without version number |
| 17:19.19 | mvanbaak | that should work the same |
| 17:22.13 | *** join/#asterisk-dev RoyK (n=roy@ti211210a080-3097.bb.online.no) |
| 17:27.46 | Corydon76-dig | mvanbaak: I'm also of the mind that the parsing should be done at build time, not runtime |
| 17:29.49 | russellb | -dev list! |
| 17:30.02 | Corydon76-dig | Already did |
| 17:32.00 | russellb | kthx |
| 17:32.23 | mvanbaak | reply sent |
| 17:32.49 | mvanbaak | dammit, I really need some extra courses 'how to speak english' |
| 17:33.14 | russellb | mvanbaak: no worries, your written english is just fine |
| 17:33.36 | seanbright | wait... you guys are speaking english?! |
| 17:33.38 | seanbright | heh |
| 17:34.08 | mvanbaak | I can write it in Dutch, but only puzzeld will understand it ;) |
| 17:34.45 | mvanbaak | aaaaaaaaah, finally they deprecate BIND 8 in Debian |
| 17:34.47 | mvanbaak | bout time |
| 17:38.08 | mvanbaak | hhmm, why are my replies not showing up ? |
| 17:38.39 | JerJer | rtp enginee == plugable rtp stack ?? |
| 17:40.23 | russellb | yes |
| 17:40.39 | russellb | for upcoming super secret rtp magic |
| 17:41.00 | russellb | or maybe just to make the code prettier |
| 17:41.01 | russellb | who knows! |
| 17:41.35 | Qwell | either way - file is clearly crazy |
| 17:42.00 | russellb | obviously |
| 17:43.01 | mvanbaak | amen |
| 17:44.20 | file | I know nothing. |
| 17:44.21 | Qwell | mvanbaak: I think it would be somewhat difficult (and maybe a little silly) to make external apps modify documentation.xml |
| 17:44.33 | Qwell | that file could be deleted/regenerated at any point |
| 17:44.37 | file | except that I had to use the words "instance", "engine", and "glue" |
| 17:44.44 | mvanbaak | Qwell: indeed. russell had a better idea for it |
| 17:44.57 | mvanbaak | put it in a directory |
| 17:44.59 | Qwell | right |
| 17:45.05 | mvanbaak | so external applications can create their own file |
| 17:45.43 | Qwell | exactly |
| 17:45.52 | Qwell | and maybe even have a static .xml for various languages |
| 17:45.59 | Qwell | (I think that may have been mentioned also) |
| 17:46.31 | mvanbaak | hhmm, not in my mutt :) |
| 17:46.48 | russellb | nice thing about having it in the source, though, is that it is staring you in the face for you to modify if you work on the code |
| 17:46.54 | russellb | in its own file, much easier to ignore |
| 17:46.55 | Qwell | he didn't really give a way to do it. caio1982 was just asking about multi-language |
| 17:46.57 | russellb | and not update/improve |
| 17:47.10 | russellb | right now they have a language="en" attribute |
| 17:47.21 | russellb | at the application level, i think it was |
| 17:47.21 | mvanbaak | yeah |
| 17:47.33 | mvanbaak | I think the best place for this is the source |
| 17:47.45 | mvanbaak | for the reason russell just noted |
| 17:47.53 | mvanbaak | and for the dev wanting to alter something |
| 17:47.54 | Qwell | right - what I mean though, is if somebody wanted to create their own xml file, and not have to modify the source, they could |
| 17:48.02 | mvanbaak | they have the reference about the option right there |
| 17:48.06 | russellb | let's try to keep this on the -dev list though |
| 17:48.10 | russellb | archive our decisions |
| 17:48.10 | *** join/#asterisk-dev joetester2 (n=chatzill@216.191.34.13) |
| 17:48.10 | Qwell | say BE, or a distro package, or appliance. something like that |
| 17:48.36 | russellb | Qwell: if you have questions, post 'em :) |
| 17:48.47 | Qwell | no question - just random thoughts :D |
| 17:49.13 | russellb | random thoughts are welcome, too |
| 17:49.38 | Corydon76-dig | Embedded systems are what I'm thinking about |
| 17:50.03 | Qwell | Corydon76-dig: it wouldn't take much to parse it at load time |
| 17:50.11 | Corydon76-dig | Massive new amounts of code and required parsing of XML... not so nice to embedded developers |
| 17:50.12 | mvanbaak | Qwell: everything that pours out of your brain regarding this issue is welcome as reply on -dev ;) |
| 17:50.40 | Corydon76-dig | (btw, I'm recapping my last post) |
| 17:50.52 | mvanbaak | it loads 0.01 second longer on my soekris 4801 |
| 17:51.00 | mvanbaak | well, i can live with that |
| 17:51.09 | Corydon76-dig | mvanbaak: what about Brian Capouch's platform? |
| 17:51.25 | mvanbaak | dont know what arch that is |
| 17:51.36 | mvanbaak | the soekris is a 486 based board |
| 17:51.43 | Corydon76-dig | mvanbaak: non-x86 |
| 17:51.57 | Corydon76-dig | Yeah, soekris isn't really what is meant by embedded |
| 17:52.15 | Corydon76-dig | We're talking StrongARM processors |
| 17:52.22 | *** join/#asterisk-dev ta^3 (n=tacvbo@189.136.42.104) |
| 17:52.24 | Corydon76-dig | 50MHz, sometimes |
| 17:52.35 | kpfleming | no, capouch is using MIPS |
| 17:52.37 | kpfleming | but still slow |
| 17:53.12 | Corydon76-dig | And he regularly runs into the limit of space on his platform... so additional code like this creates problems for him |
| 17:53.25 | mvanbaak | it will take eoans to build on a 50mhz type platform |
| 17:53.27 | Corydon76-dig | Rather, additional MANDITORY code... |
| 17:53.34 | file | mvanbaak: you cross compile |
| 17:53.38 | mvanbaak | remember the 4 days of work on the hppa box I had ? |
| 17:53.47 | Corydon76-dig | That's why I'd prefer to do the parsing at build time |
| 17:54.19 | kpfleming | no question |
| 17:54.29 | kpfleming | i wouldn't be happy with any other solution either |
| 17:54.30 | Qwell | parsing at build time removes the ability to just drop in a new xml file (for say alternate languages) |
| 17:54.38 | Qwell | well, maybe |
| 17:55.06 | Corydon76-dig | Qwell: but I'm proposing embedding it into the modules, as they are now... just the ability to build with a different language |
| 17:55.24 | mvanbaak | hhmm |
| 17:55.34 | mvanbaak | that way you can never change the language if your asterisk |
| 17:55.39 | mvanbaak | without recompile |
| 17:56.08 | Corydon76-dig | mvanbaak: but you cannot change it now; your proposal is to put the language in asterisk.conf, which is only parsed once per runtime |
| 17:56.38 | Corydon76-dig | So to change the language now, you still need a restart |
| 17:56.39 | mvanbaak | yeah, but editing 1 config line and running a reload is easier then a complete recompile |
| 17:56.50 | Corydon76-dig | mvanbaak: asterisk.conf is not parsed at reload |
| 17:56.57 | mvanbaak | and I'm working on getting it dynamic |
| 17:57.15 | mvanbaak | so you can do: core set language nl |
| 17:58.10 | Corydon76-dig | mvanbaak: I'd like to see how many Asterisk systems really need the ability to switch documentation language at runtime |
| 17:58.20 | russellb | binary distribution of asterisk ... |
| 17:58.23 | Corydon76-dig | How many people use the online help, when they can use a website? |
| 17:58.31 | mvanbaak | a lot |
| 17:58.42 | Corydon76-dig | online==embedded |
| 17:58.42 | mvanbaak | most of the time I dont have any browser at hand |
| 17:58.50 | mvanbaak | only wget |
| 17:59.12 | caio1982 | Corydon76-dig: i only use the embedded documentation |
| 17:59.12 | Corydon76-dig | mvanbaak: yes, and how many administrators need to switch languages at runtime? |
| 17:59.29 | russellb | administrators using a binary distribution of asterisk |
| 17:59.40 | Corydon76-dig | Honestly, I see a language getting set once, when it's installed, and that's it. |
| 17:59.45 | mvanbaak | Corydon76-dig: admins that have a support team in $random_asian_country |
| 17:59.48 | jtodd | Corydon: you mean like "core show application foo" ? I use it extensively. I suspect that language would never be changed "real-time" without restart, but that's just me. |
| 18:00.09 | russellb | sure, maybe not realtime, but a compiled version of asterisk must support multiple languages |
| 18:00.10 | Corydon76-dig | jtodd: I suspect once set, it would never get changed at all |
| 18:00.18 | russellb | or, as i've said multiple times, binary distribution is screwed |
| 18:00.24 | mvanbaak | indeed |
| 18:00.38 | putnopvut | russellb: you could always make 50 different binaries, each with different language docs ;) |
| 18:00.40 | mvanbaak | or, you get something like this in 'aptitude search asterisk' |
| 18:00.41 | Qwell | compiling for every language would be...ugh |
| 18:00.44 | mvanbaak | asterisk-core-nl |
| 18:00.46 | jtodd | Hrm. I would agree that it would probably not be good to make it unchangeable without re-compile. |
| 18:00.47 | mvanbaak | asterisk-core-en |
| 18:00.57 | Corydon76-dig | mvanbaak: if a support team has admins in multiple countries, you don't have to imagine very much to see the problems it would cause if the language was changed and two admins were on at the same time |
| 18:00.58 | mvanbaak | asterisk-core-$whatever_lang_we_have |
| 18:01.24 | russellb | core show application Dial <language> |
| 18:01.25 | russellb | :) |
| 18:01.27 | mvanbaak | this looks a LOT like the openoffice packages |
| 18:01.36 | mvanbaak | russellb: that is HAWT |
| 18:01.41 | Qwell | russellb: but then it would have to store a string per language |
| 18:01.45 | russellb | yes. |
| 18:01.50 | putnopvut | what's wrong with that? |
| 18:01.52 | mvanbaak | store, or parse |
| 18:01.56 | russellb | yes. |
| 18:01.56 | putnopvut | store |
| 18:02.06 | russellb | take your pick, regardless, it _must_ support multiple languages |
| 18:02.15 | mvanbaak | yup |
| 18:02.30 | mvanbaak | without recompile |
| 18:02.37 | Corydon76-dig | A string per language I could get behind, as long as a) you could turn languages you don't need off, and b) we don't have to parse it at runtime |
| 18:02.57 | russellb | wonders how long it would really take to parse ... |
| 18:03.17 | mvanbaak | on a 486 I see a total increase of 0.01 second |
| 18:03.25 | kpfleming | to do what? |
| 18:03.28 | russellb | a few hundred applications, many languages, it could get big |
| 18:03.29 | Corydon76-dig | mvanbaak: pick a real embedded system |
| 18:03.38 | russellb | kpfleming: parse an XML document of asterisk application documentation |
| 18:03.45 | kpfleming | how large? |
| 18:03.56 | russellb | not large at all, yet :) |
| 18:03.58 | mvanbaak | my documentation.xml is 1.5MB |
| 18:03.59 | Corydon76-dig | 200k, perhaps |
| 18:04.03 | putnopvut | but if we're just storing strings for multiple languages, wouldn't the XML just be parsed at build-time? |
| 18:04.04 | mvanbaak | for my test |
| 18:04.05 | Corydon76-dig | Ouch |
| 18:04.05 | Qwell | 1.5MB? |
| 18:04.21 | mvanbaak | I added 10.000 applications in both english and dutch |
| 18:04.24 | mvanbaak | fake of course |
| 18:04.27 | russellb | oh |
| 18:04.27 | Corydon76-dig | Yeah, that's close to half the memory on some embedded systems |
| 18:04.42 | kpfleming | not any systems where asterisk will run |
| 18:04.44 | mvanbaak | just to test how much impact it would have |
| 18:04.46 | russellb | for 20k entries ... |
| 18:04.56 | Qwell | I would be okay with storing it in the binary, as long as it can do multiple |
| 18:04.57 | Corydon76-dig | kpfleming: Capouch's systems? |
| 18:05.05 | russellb | so to load those 20k entires, it was 0.01 second? |
| 18:05.09 | kpfleming | asterisk will not run on a box with 8MB of RAM |
| 18:05.10 | Qwell | (though the binary would get larger, so would need to be disablable) |
| 18:05.10 | mvanbaak | yup |
| 18:05.30 | mvanbaak | 0.01 extra compared to current trunk |
| 18:05.34 | Corydon76-dig | kpfleming: I actually think it will... |
| 18:05.48 | Corydon76-dig | But bcapouch is the real authority on that |
| 18:06.16 | russellb | i think being able to turn off languages will make compiling it in more difficult ... |
| 18:06.17 | *** join/#asterisk-dev bkruse (n=bkruse@76.73.154.120) |
| 18:06.17 | *** mode/#asterisk-dev [+o bkruse] by ChanServ |
| 18:06.20 | russellb | but doable i guess |
| 18:06.21 | mvanbaak | I would like to see a test on one of his systems |
| 18:06.26 | Corydon76-dig | Anytime we break trunk for embedded systems, he raises an objection |
| 18:06.27 | russellb | i'm just not convinced that it really helps :) |
| 18:06.27 | bkruse | mvanbaak: ! |
| 18:06.33 | mvanbaak | bkruse: ! |
| 18:06.41 | putnopvut | couldn't language support be turned off in menuselect? |
| 18:06.56 | russellb | it's the mechanics behind what happens when you do that |
| 18:06.59 | russellb | that's the tricky part |
| 18:07.05 | bkruse | sorry mvanbaak, I am sick today. But I am still here |
| 18:07.13 | mvanbaak | bkruse: no worries |
| 18:07.20 | mvanbaak | we are debating the whole thing |
| 18:07.27 | mvanbaak | I started a thread on -dev |
| 18:07.27 | russellb | parse the tree, and build a new tree that only includes a single language? |
| 18:07.30 | russellb | shrugs |
| 18:07.32 | Corydon76-dig | mvanbaak: no, we aren't |
| 18:07.35 | Qwell | russellb: pretty much |
| 18:07.48 | Corydon76-dig | mvanbaak: we're only debating when it occurs |
| 18:07.50 | Qwell | or, split the "tree" into individual langs |
| 18:07.54 | bkruse | russellb: Is that horrible? |
| 18:08.12 | Qwell | documentation-en.xml, documentation-ru.xml |
| 18:08.22 | mvanbaak | brb, food |
| 18:08.30 | ctooley | kpfleming, I have loaded asterisk on an older model of 54G that only had 8MB of RAM (dev model) |
| 18:08.45 | bkruse | the build_documentation script could decide what language to put in the xml file |
| 18:08.49 | kpfleming | ok, then i'm wrong |
| 18:08.51 | kpfleming | yay |
| 18:08.52 | ctooley | it's highly useless, as spinning up 2 channels runs it out of RAM, but it will answer the first call. |
| 18:08.53 | bkruse | that would make parsing even MORE easy |
| 18:09.00 | russellb | true ... |
| 18:09.12 | tzafrir_laptop | help language should be a property of the "environment". No point asking explicitly for docs in a specific language |
| 18:09.19 | ctooley | so... run, yes, useful, no |
| 18:09.35 | Corydon76-dig | ctooley: were you running all modules? |
| 18:09.36 | ctooley | And that was after stripping as much OS as I could think to get rid of. Took forever. |
| 18:09.48 | ctooley | Corydon76-dig, nope, only the stuff I was going to use. |
| 18:09.56 | tzafrir_laptop | Either use LANG/LANGUAGE and such, some explicit settings , or none at all |
| 18:10.05 | Qwell | tzafrir_laptop: there's a param in asterisk.conf |
| 18:10.16 | russellb | goes back to his project and hopes he can catch up via -dev later ... |
| 18:10.21 | tzafrir_laptop | It should be user-specific . |
| 18:10.21 | ctooley | The base OS and libraries necessary run Asterisk now take up a considerable amount of memory when Asterisk is expected to be run. |
| 18:10.27 | tzafrir_laptop | not global |
| 18:10.50 | Corydon76-dig | ctooley: and were you running busybox for most of the utils? |
| 18:10.58 | ctooley | Corydon76-dig, yeah |
| 18:11.00 | tzafrir_laptop | LANG/LC_MESSAGES/LANGUAGE is a good start |
| 18:11.06 | Corydon76-dig | ctooley: dietlibc? |
| 18:11.15 | Corydon76-dig | or ulibc? |
| 18:11.26 | ctooley | Corydon76-dig, after that, I start forgetting, it's admittedly been several years. |
| 18:11.39 | ctooley | I'm not sure if 1.4 would do better or worse at this point. |
| 18:11.41 | Corydon76-dig | ctooley: AFAIK, Capouch is still doing it |
| 18:11.43 | ctooley | that was pre-1.0 |
| 18:11.53 | Corydon76-dig | ctooley: and he's doing trunk |
| 18:12.00 | ctooley | that's cool |
| 18:12.05 | tzafrir_laptop | But I would first like to see some docs in other languages |
| 18:12.11 | ctooley | Can't imagine he's able to get much throughput out of it though. |
| 18:12.35 | Corydon76-dig | ctooley: his main goal is to set up phone service in rural areas of Indiana |
| 18:12.38 | ctooley | 2-5 channels tops. After that it starts getting pretty.... full. |
| 18:13.00 | Corydon76-dig | ctooley: 2 channels, enough to make a call, is all that he needs |
| 18:13.07 | Corydon76-dig | ctooley: wireless backbone |
| 18:13.14 | ctooley | ah |
| 18:13.22 | ctooley | yeah, that's about all I'd expect it to do |
| 18:18.16 | bkruse | mvanbaak: I think we have it pretty well worked out :) |
| 18:24.57 | *** join/#asterisk-dev Victor_Yure (n=victor@unaffiliated/victoryure/x-837844) |
| 18:48.17 | *** join/#asterisk-dev RoyK (n=roy@ti211210a080-3097.bb.online.no) |
| 19:03.27 | *** join/#asterisk-dev DarkRift (n=dark@bas10-montreal02-1177583423.dsl.bell.ca) |
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| 19:18.24 | mvanbaak | bkruse: yeah, think so too |
| 19:26.16 | mvanbaak | haven't seen a single post that talks about the schema |
| 19:27.19 | bkruse | mvanbaak: People are to busy hatin' :P |
| 19:27.43 | mvanbaak | must be :) |
| 19:29.49 | bkruse | mvanbaak: Anyways, I am not sure exactly what to work on now. Maybe a menuselect option for the language, or only specific languages in the documentation.xml, etc |
| 19:30.48 | tzafrir_laptop | bkruse, so you suggest merging several XML files at install time? |
| 19:31.04 | tzafrir_laptop | (different languages? external modules?) |
| 19:31.35 | mvanbaak | bkruse: how about we put them all in seperate dirs first, and do some magic to merge them all into the installed documentation.xml ? |
| 19:31.37 | bkruse | tzafrir_laptop: You could have a fallback for both |
| 19:31.56 | jsmith | mvanbaak: I haven't responded to the schema yet because I've been busy teaching, but I have a few comments |
| 19:32.01 | mvanbaak | like: core-en.xml core-nl.xml tzafrirs-package.xml |
| 19:32.04 | jsmith | mvanbaak: I'll try to get them posted to the list tonight |
| 19:32.11 | mvanbaak | and install a single documentation.xml |
| 19:32.27 | mvanbaak | jsmith: great. thank you |
| 19:32.35 | bkruse | tzafrir_laptop: Why not have this, a documentation.xml with all the source documentation, for a specific language (small, compact, easy). Then, I could parse ANY xml files in the doc/ folder in the same format I parse documentation.xml, if you have an <application> tag, it would just get added, and boom, it works. |
| 19:32.56 | mvanbaak | that's even better bkruse |
| 19:33.01 | jsmith | mvanbaak: Also, the output of "core show application Dial" appears to be broken in the branch right now -- it's not showing the options |
| 19:33.09 | mvanbaak | jsmith: we know |
| 19:33.17 | mvanbaak | we want to be sure on the format first |
| 19:33.28 | mvanbaak | like I said in my original post |
| 19:33.39 | jsmith | Gotcha |
| 19:33.41 | mvanbaak | if the xml format is agreed on, we can finish the work |
| 19:33.55 | mvanbaak | makes no sense to alter the implementation over and over again |
| 19:33.55 | jsmith | OK... I'll complain about the XML schema first :-p |
| 19:34.00 | jsmith | I agree |
| 19:34.04 | mvanbaak | same reason why not more modules are converted |
| 19:34.27 | bkruse | mvanbaak: I merged in snuff-home's changes, btw, if you didn't see |
| 19:34.38 | mvanbaak | bkruse: I noticed :) |
| 19:34.46 | mvanbaak | I could have spent like 4 hours on that today. but it would suck to do it all over again tomorrow |
| 19:34.52 | bkruse | Right |
| 19:34.54 | mvanbaak | that last line was for jsmith btw |
| 19:35.17 | mvanbaak | I'm also stalling my php till we have an ok |
| 19:35.32 | tzafrir_laptop | mvanbaak, when is that magic run? install time? run time? |
| 19:35.38 | jsmith | mvanbaak: Well, if/when we get the XML format finalized, I'll be happy to contribute to the effort of converting over more apps/functions to that format |
| 19:35.38 | mvanbaak | what magic ? |
| 19:35.53 | mvanbaak | jsmith: nice, thank you |
| 19:36.44 | tzafrir_laptop | <mvanbaak> bkruse: how about we put them all in seperate dirs first, and do some magic to merge them all into the installed documentation.xml ? |
| 19:36.56 | bkruse | tzafrir_laptop: install time (if you are talking about the generation) |
| 19:37.04 | mvanbaak | install time |
| 19:37.12 | mvanbaak | lol bkruse. we are clearly on the same line |
| 19:37.17 | bkruse | :) |
| 19:37.42 | mvanbaak | tzafrir_laptop: but like I said, bkruse has a better idea |
| 19:37.45 | jsmith | What, no XIncludes? |
| 19:37.52 | jsmith | ducks and goes back to teaching a class |
| 19:37.52 | bkruse | I think that one documentation.xml is NOT the answer. I think that I should parse all the XML files in the doc/ directory |
| 19:37.57 | mvanbaak | let your app add the file to doc/ and we can parse it |
| 19:38.05 | mvanbaak | as long as it has an <application> node |
| 19:38.07 | bkruse | (copy) tzafrir_laptop: Why not have this, a documentation.xml with all the source documentation, for a specific language (small, compact, easy). Then, I could parse ANY xml files in the doc/ folder in the same format I parse documentation.xml, if you have an <application> tag, it would just get added, and boom, it works. |
| 19:38.14 | jsmith | wonders about XML catalogs |
| 19:38.41 | mvanbaak | jsmith: yeah. we dont have a DTD, we dont have a XSLT etc etc |
| 19:39.03 | jsmith | mvanbaak: Well, at least not *yet* :-) |
| 19:39.06 | mvanbaak | bkruse: care to send that idea to the mailinglist ? |
| 19:39.14 | mvanbaak | bkruse: or add it to the TODO in our branch |
| 19:39.25 | bkruse | yes |
| 19:39.46 | bkruse | (todo) I already mentioned something like in the mailing list, I believe, but I can resend it |
| 19:40.23 | mvanbaak | I saved the whole thread so far |
| 19:40.43 | mvanbaak | I think I'll update our TODO and xmldocumentation.txt tomorrow |
| 19:41.03 | mvanbaak | give people some time to read up on the thread, format their replies, get feedback, get answers from us |
| 19:41.26 | mvanbaak | and, I would like to see a testresult on the strongARM hardware. |
| 19:41.52 | mvanbaak | I really cant believe this is taking too much time. |
| 19:42.00 | mvanbaak | (the parsing I mean) |
| 19:42.33 | bkruse | same, on my box, which is not that fast, it only takes a couple seconds |
| 19:42.42 | bkruse | and that's JUST on build |
| 19:42.48 | bkruse | on runtime I cannot notice a difference |
| 19:42.48 | mvanbaak | yeah |
| 19:42.52 | mvanbaak | I mean on runtime |
| 19:43.04 | mvanbaak | my soekris is taking 0.01 second more on asterisk load |
| 19:43.16 | mvanbaak | added 20k <application> nodes |
| 19:43.17 | tzafrir_laptop | any zaptel/FreeBSD, zaptel/Solaris or whatever here? |
| 19:43.25 | bkruse | The memory that was previously used for those static const chars is now just the XML blob (plus a little extra :P) |
| 19:43.31 | mvanbaak | tzafrir_laptop: we need dahdi/OpenBSD |
| 19:43.39 | bkruse | not to mention, you take out the language parsing (when you have just one language document) it takes out a whole nother query |
| 19:44.06 | tzafrir_laptop | Regarding the "plan for span": I wonder if any of those OSes has something similar to udev |
| 19:44.08 | mvanbaak | bkruse: indeed. and the modules get smaller. the compiler optimizes the comments out |
| 19:44.27 | mvanbaak | tzafrir_laptop: OpenBSD has not. they just have a static /dev |
| 19:44.38 | mvanbaak | and last time I tried FreeBSD was the same |
| 19:45.04 | bkruse | mvanbaak: Exactly. I would like to see how much SPACE we save doing that. Not to mention, if we weren't worried about runtime, we could bzip or similar the documentation.xml |
| 19:45.20 | tzafrir_laptop | I think Solaris has something that is similar to devfs . But I don't know how much the sysadmin has control over it |
| 19:45.33 | mvanbaak | nah, bzip is not on every system. |
| 19:45.41 | mvanbaak | there are others that are though |
| 19:45.45 | tzafrir_laptop | gzip is close enough |
| 19:45.45 | mvanbaak | gzip comes to mind |
| 19:45.45 | jsmith | gzip? |
| 19:45.50 | bkruse | mvanbaak: or something, do we not use any text compression in asterisk? |
| 19:45.53 | jsmith | Great minds think alike! |
| 19:45.54 | tzafrir_laptop | also normally way faster |
| 19:46.19 | mvanbaak | or use lzo or something |
| 19:46.19 | bkruse | right, bzip on text is amazing, but gzip on text would show significant decrease |
| 19:46.36 | mvanbaak | yeah, bzip is way better then gzip compression wise |
| 19:46.44 | mvanbaak | but gzip is more common, and way faster |
| 19:46.54 | mvanbaak | yipes! thunderstorm ! |
| 19:49.07 | mvanbaak | bkruse: I like it that you put a note about overwriting and sending it upstream |
| 19:49.27 | bkruse | mvanbaak: :) Conflicts are easy, I just chose the first one, which will be core-whatever.xml |
| 19:49.36 | mvanbaak | yup |
| 19:49.41 | mvanbaak | we are the best anywayz |
| 19:49.53 | bkruse | mvanbaak: Honestly though, let me make you a build that just does that, I bet that the load time is even faster, because the language searching is a lot more intensive |
| 19:50.14 | mvanbaak | if you feel like it, go for it |
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| 19:50.33 | bkruse | The one language support is just find the first application with name Dial, the other one is find all applications, search for language, if language not found, use first result from the other |
| 19:50.33 | mvanbaak | I'll wait for jsmith's remarks about the format, and start converting stuff like hell after that |
| 19:50.44 | bkruse | cool! |
| 19:51.07 | mvanbaak | and start writing php and python extractors |
| 19:51.23 | bkruse | mvanbaak: Maybe i'll just make an 'optimized patch' and put it in the root directory? |
| 19:51.44 | mvanbaak | hhmm |
| 19:51.48 | mvanbaak | or .... |
| 19:52.01 | ctooley | php and python extractors.... I've got a good one.... |
| 19:52.10 | mvanbaak | nah, a second branch is too much |
| 19:52.18 | ctooley | %s/#!/usr/bin/python/#!/usr/bin/perl/ |
| 19:52.20 | bkruse | lol |
| 19:52.21 | ctooley | python gone. |
| 19:52.49 | mvanbaak | ctooley: once the format is agreed on, and we have some stuff in the file you can code your own |
| 19:53.10 | ctooley | mvanbaak, it was a joke. |
| 19:53.16 | mvanbaak | mine too :) |
| 19:53.29 | ctooley | hates documentation |
| 19:53.35 | mvanbaak | the php can replace a lot of voip-info.org |
| 19:53.44 | mvanbaak | bkruse: another idea I had |
| 19:54.11 | ctooley | mvanbaak, you mean I can pull it up with PHP and then copy and paste it into voip-info? |
| 19:54.21 | mvanbaak | ctooley: yes. |
| 19:54.33 | ctooley | Though.... it might be nice to create an XSLT to convert the docs directly into wiki-mess. |
| 19:54.35 | mvanbaak | ctooley: actually, I was going to make it a replacement for it |
| 19:55.10 | mvanbaak | you just drop docs.php and all the xml files in a webroot with php support and *boom* online documentation |
| 19:55.38 | mvanbaak | add a commandline switch to it |
| 19:55.58 | mvanbaak | so you can do: php docs.php --dir=/var/www/asteriskdocs |
| 19:55.59 | ctooley | I wanna see tts conversions for all the documentation. |
| 19:56.05 | mvanbaak | and it would create a static html out of it |
| 19:56.21 | Qwell | ctooley: that'd be interesting |
| 19:56.26 | ctooley | The best example of any good system is if it's self-explanatory. :) |
| 19:56.32 | Qwell | maybe not too useful, but pretty interesting :p |
| 19:56.47 | Qwell | tts'd syntax would be...yeah |
| 19:56.55 | mvanbaak | gheh |
| 19:57.30 | mvanbaak | php docs.php --dir=stdout | mail -s 'please record' alison@digium.com |
| 19:58.11 | ctooley | hahahaha |
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| 20:10.18 | Qwell | should use Google Protocol Buffers instead of XML :p |
| 20:11.01 | jsmith | Google Protocol Buffers? |
| 20:11.07 | jsmith | blinks |
| 20:11.19 | Qwell | /. |
| 20:12.41 | jsmith | Yeah, I just googled them |
| 20:12.51 | jsmith | Sounds nice, but I'm sure the license conflicts |
| 20:13.12 | jsmith | And again, one of the design goals was to not introduce any more external requirements on Asterisk |
| 20:13.21 | jsmith | (which is why we're using mxml) |
| 20:13.42 | jsmith | But I'm guessing you were just joking about using GPBs, right? |
| 20:13.47 | Qwell | yep |
| 20:17.27 | mvanbaak | I added the documentation.xml to the branch for now |
| 20:17.36 | mvanbaak | I'll remove it again soon, but I need it in there |
| 20:17.39 | mvanbaak | for now |
| 20:18.00 | seanbright | spot the bug... |
| 20:18.02 | seanbright | if ("${CalleeFlags:6:1}" = "!" || "${CallerFlags:6:1}" = "1") { |
| 20:19.04 | Corydon76-dig | seanbright: impossible without knowing context |
| 20:19.11 | kpfleming | it's the wrong language? |
| 20:19.11 | mvanbaak | CalleeFlags is only 5 characters long ? |
| 20:19.27 | outtolunc | and you can replace || with + and get the same result for the IF part |
| 20:20.09 | seanbright | nope... shift-1 vs. 1 |
| 20:20.24 | Qwell | what language? |
| 20:20.32 | seanbright | that first conditional should check against "1" and not "!" |
| 20:20.34 | Qwell | that's not bash |
| 20:20.36 | seanbright | AEL |
| 20:20.50 | Qwell | oh |
| 20:21.03 | seanbright | and it's been that way since... oh... march 23rd of this year... |
| 20:21.16 | seanbright | and consequently, no direct calls to sales reps have been recorded! |
| 20:21.19 | seanbright | hooray! |
| 20:21.22 | seanbright | dusts off his resume |
| 20:21.25 | putnopvut | oh dear. |
| 20:21.38 | outtolunc | ah, didn't notice lack of []'s |
| 20:21.38 | Qwell | so, it doesn't mean if ("${calleestate}" = "happy") ? |
| 20:22.04 | Corydon76-dig | outtolunc: you don't need them in AEL |
| 20:22.10 | seanbright | if means 'if (shouldRecordCallee || shouldRecordCaller)'e |
| 20:22.55 | Corydon76-dig | seanbright: that isn't something that would be caught by a parser validation engine... it was just simply wrong... |
| 20:22.57 | Qwell | seanbright: convert from binary and | it |
| 20:23.22 | seanbright | Corydon76-dig: i know... is that supposed to make me feel better or worse? |
| 20:23.58 | seanbright | Qwell: why? |
| 20:24.06 | Qwell | no reason |
| 20:24.07 | seanbright | Qwell: oh, i see what you mean. |
| 20:25.58 | seanbright | so... crap |
| 20:28.34 | Corydon76-dig | seanbright: Just pointing that out |
| 20:31.09 | seanbright | Corydon76-dig: thanks |
| 20:31.52 | seanbright | i might be getting canned... |
| 20:31.53 | seanbright | brb |
| 20:32.01 | Corydon76-dig | Ouch |
| 20:32.59 | bkruse | mvanbaak: patch uploaded |
| 20:36.39 | mvanbaak | this is only for 1 language right ? |
| 20:37.53 | bkruse | mvanbaak: yes |
| 20:38.43 | mvanbaak | this is even faster |
| 20:38.55 | mvanbaak | no difference with trunk now |
| 20:40.08 | mvanbaak | hhmm |
| 20:40.17 | mvanbaak | but how do we handle the other languages ? |
| 20:40.29 | mvanbaak | let ppl simply translate the core-en.xml ? |
| 20:40.49 | mvanbaak | and load the correct file based on some configure flag ? |
| 20:41.21 | mvanbaak | hhmm, I would opt for load the correct file based on the documentation_language setting in asterisk.conf |
| 20:41.31 | mvanbaak | so binary packages can ship all the languages |
| 20:41.56 | mvanbaak | yeah |
| 20:41.59 | mvanbaak | that's a good plan |
| 20:42.18 | mvanbaak | load the core-$lang.xml version based on the asterisk.conf setting |
| 20:42.27 | mvanbaak | if that file is not found, load the core-en.xml file |
| 20:42.46 | mvanbaak | I'll add the same logic to my php script |
| 20:45.30 | bkruse | I would let them just translate the core-en.xml, yes |
| 20:45.58 | bkruse | Right, I think that would be the best way, but our awk script will have to change, how should we handle that for the little we have already translated? |
| 20:47.17 | mvanbaak | nah |
| 20:47.27 | seanbright | is still employed |
| 20:47.28 | mvanbaak | we should just dump the in-source stuff to core-en.xml |
| 20:47.39 | mvanbaak | and dont put the translations in the source |
| 20:47.54 | mvanbaak | so we can ditch the language attribute there |
| 20:48.16 | mvanbaak | erm, the language attribute should stay |
| 20:48.19 | mvanbaak | sorry |
| 20:48.31 | mvanbaak | remove the dutch and english stuff like you did in the patch |
| 20:48.35 | putnopvut | seanbright: congrats! |
| 20:48.38 | mvanbaak | sorry |
| 20:48.45 | mvanbaak | remove the dutch and spanish stuff like you did in the patch |
| 20:49.10 | mvanbaak | and alter the makefile to put it in core-en.xml inside the doc/ directory |
| 20:54.04 | bkruse | mvanbaak: ok |
| 20:54.27 | seanbright | ouch... so that has been broken since march 23rd |
| 20:54.34 | seanbright | i don't really feel bad anymore. |
| 20:56.58 | seanbright | goes |
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| 21:26.20 | mvanbaak | bkruse: should I add the php I have in the scripts dir ? |
| 21:27.50 | bkruse | contrib? |
| 21:27.57 | bkruse | yes, i can work on it a little too |
| 21:28.04 | mvanbaak | ok |
| 21:28.06 | mvanbaak | hang on |
| 21:28.12 | mvanbaak | it's very basic, beware |
| 21:28.12 | bkruse | add that thing you mentioned earlier in todo, ok? |
| 21:28.22 | mvanbaak | hacked it together while visiting my toilet |
| 21:28.36 | bkruse | the exporting to the doc/ dir, searching for language.xml if not, loading another, etc. |
| 21:28.43 | bkruse | lol nice |
| 21:28.45 | mvanbaak | ok |
| 21:29.19 | *** join/#asterisk-dev moy (n=moyhu@nat/ibm/x-71fef7382d9074d3) |
| 21:32.49 | mvanbaak | there you go |
| 21:33.36 | bkruse | mvanbaak: svn add documentation.xml? |
| 21:35.10 | bkruse | mvanbaak: that documentation.xml shouldn't be added. |
| 21:35.24 | bkruse | I meant add the idea that you told me, so I can work on it (todo list) |
| 21:37.01 | mvanbaak | and updated the todo |
| 21:37.08 | mvanbaak | yeah |
| 21:37.14 | mvanbaak | the documentation.xml can go again |
| 21:37.18 | mvanbaak | hang on, let me fix it |
| 21:37.43 | mvanbaak | there, committed |
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| 21:53.51 | bkruse | ty sir |
| 21:53.59 | mvanbaak | ur welcome |
| 21:54.20 | bkruse | Ok, I am going to eat and hangout with the lady. I will hit this again tonight. How late are you up mvanbaak? |
| 21:55.38 | Corydon76-dig | bkruse: you have a lady friend? |
| 21:55.55 | bkruse | Corydon76-dig: Yes :D |
| 21:56.08 | Corydon76-dig | Weird |
| 21:56.20 | bkruse | lol, ouch, how so? |
| 21:56.23 | putnopvut | lol |
| 21:56.35 | Corydon76-dig | Girls are teh icky |
| 21:56.50 | bkruse | oh, i was like, i guess i am ugly :/ |
| 21:57.11 | Corydon76-dig | Besides, you already know that it conflicted with my first impression of you |
| 21:57.11 | bkruse | You are right, they are sometimes to much a hassle :[ |
| 21:57.26 | bkruse | lol, I remember :) |
| 21:57.32 | Corydon76-dig | Friendly sort that you are |
| 21:57.36 | Corydon76-dig | ;-) |
| 21:58.22 | bkruse | I am! I cannot help it :) |
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| 21:59.07 | mvanbaak | bkruse: it's midnight here |
| 21:59.11 | mvanbaak | I need some sleep |
| 21:59.14 | *** part/#asterisk-dev RoyK (n=roy@ti211210a080-3097.bb.online.no) |
| 21:59.16 | mvanbaak | and then a day of work |
| 21:59.17 | bkruse | Oh, nvm :] |
| 21:59.18 | Corydon76-dig | bkruse: Besides, hell has frozen over. I'm dating a woman. |
| 21:59.32 | mvanbaak | Corydon76-dig: no f*cking way ! |
| 21:59.35 | mvanbaak | hides |
| 21:59.43 | bkruse | Corydon76-dig: !!! How is that going? |
| 21:59.45 | Corydon76-dig | mvanbaak: Way |
| 21:59.51 | mvanbaak | Corydon76-dig: nice |
| 21:59.57 | Corydon76-dig | bkruse: pretty good, so far |
| 22:00.00 | mvanbaak | <--- married for over 5 years now |
| 22:00.05 | bkruse | do you regret it? or is she a cool chick? |
| 22:00.22 | Corydon76-dig | If I regretted it, I wouldn't be dating her... |
| 22:00.33 | bkruse | good point, |
| 22:01.06 | mvanbaak | aight |
| 22:01.48 | bkruse | Corydon76-dig: Do I come across too friendly? |
| 22:02.02 | bkruse | Maybe I just love all people too much :P |
| 22:02.08 | snuff-home | is outta here.. work callin ;( |
| 22:02.11 | Corydon76-dig | I dunno that you can be too friendly |
| 22:02.23 | bkruse | Again, good point |
| 22:02.31 | putnopvut | Whoa whoa whoa... Corydon76-dig is dating a woman? |
| 22:03.18 | Corydon76-dig | bkruse: I know some people can be too trusting, but I don't think you're one of those people |
| 22:04.03 | kpfleming | mvanbaak: please use real language codes for your documentation, not asterisk's shortened versions |
| 22:04.10 | kpfleming | en -> en_US, en_GB, en_AU, etc. |
| 22:04.27 | Corydon76-dig | kpfleming: Asterisk uses those, too |
| 22:04.29 | kpfleming | nl is probably the same way |
| 22:04.40 | kpfleming | i know, but asterisk users are in the habit of not caring about dialect |
| 22:04.45 | mvanbaak | ok |
| 22:04.52 | mvanbaak | so do we really need to go this way ? |
| 22:04.53 | *** join/#asterisk-dev outtolunc (n=me@adsl-66-218-53-172.dslextreme.com) |
| 22:04.57 | bkruse | True, just change that mvanbaak, and I'll change it in the code |
| 22:05.06 | Corydon76-dig | mvanbaak: color vs colour |
| 22:05.08 | kpfleming | i'd prefer to explicitly mark what we have as en_US, someone in AU can choose to use it if they want, but we don't have to accept patches to make it more AU-style |
| 22:05.21 | bkruse | Corydon76-dig: Well, I think I am not too trusting, but a lot of fun :D Anyways, gl with everything with the lady, we can double date sometime :D |
| 22:05.31 | Corydon76-dig | Hah |
| 22:05.32 | mvanbaak | en_US.latin1 en_US.latin5 en_US.utf7 en_US.utf8 etc etc etc |
| 22:05.41 | kpfleming | those are character encodings |
| 22:05.46 | kpfleming | we don't have to worry about that |
| 22:05.50 | bkruse | - the .* |
| 22:06.00 | mvanbaak | ok |
| 22:06.15 | Qwell | mvanbaak: what is it, nl_NL? |
| 22:06.17 | mvanbaak | we now do UTF-8 (the Makefile adds that as character encoding to the xml) |
| 22:06.17 | Corydon76-dig | Actually, character encoding might be a good idea at some point |
| 22:06.20 | kpfleming | just declare everthing to be utf8 or iso8859-1 or something |
| 22:06.21 | mvanbaak | nl_NL |
| 22:06.32 | kpfleming | as opposed to nl_ZA |
| 22:06.34 | Qwell | mvanbaak: So how do you say your language, in your language? |
| 22:06.48 | mvanbaak | nederlands |
| 22:06.52 | Corydon76-dig | especially when it comes to Chinese, whatever that code is |
| 22:07.28 | putnopvut | kpfleming: is nl_ZA an antiquity from when DRC was called Zaire? |
| 22:07.32 | bkruse | mvanbaak: Supposedly, once we say, "Ya, our schema rocks", we already have tons of people that are going to work on the "janitor" project of converting in different language |
| 22:07.35 | bkruse | languages* |
| 22:07.49 | Qwell | Corydon76-dig: zh_TW |
| 22:07.54 | kpfleming | putnopvut: no, i think ZA is the official abbreviation for South Africa |
| 22:07.58 | Qwell | (for traditional) |
| 22:08.06 | putnopvut | Ah. |
| 22:08.08 | Corydon76-dig | Qwell: that's it. I was thinking of ch, but that's Swiss |
| 22:08.25 | Qwell | no_NO |
| 22:08.26 | Qwell | heh |
| 22:08.43 | Corydon76-dig | no_NO.badpuppy ? |
| 22:09.30 | putnopvut | Now I'm curious, is nl_ZA actually Dutch or is it Afrikaans? |
| 22:09.44 | Corydon76-dig | And then we can have bork_BORK |
| 22:09.48 | Qwell | Dutch. Hence the nl, no? |
| 22:10.05 | Qwell | af_ZA |
| 22:10.41 | Corydon76-dig | Now there's some sample documentation we can get behind.... Swedish Chef, Pig Latin, Klingon, Elmer Fudd... |
| 22:11.07 | putnopvut | ROT13 |
| 22:11.12 | Qwell | Corydon76-dig: I'm sure oej will add sc_SE |
| 22:12.59 | mvanbaak | putnopvut: it's afrikaans |
| 22:13.05 | mvanbaak | nl_ZA |
| 22:13.09 | Corydon76-dig | I wouldn't mind seeing Yiddish and Gaelic, too |
| 22:13.24 | mvanbaak | I want the aramese translation |
| 22:14.26 | Corydon76-dig | Valley Girl |
| 22:14.35 | Qwell | vg_LA? |
| 22:14.52 | Corydon76-dig | Qwell: en_SV |
| 22:15.04 | Corydon76-dig | Simi Valley |
| 22:15.09 | mvanbaak | commit asterisk 129223 |
| 22:15.17 | MuffinMan | [129223] Committed by mvanbaak on 2008-07-08T22:14:54.211053Z: convert the language="" stuff to the official locale notation. |
| 22:15.17 | MuffinMan | ..en => en_US |
| 22:15.17 | MuffinMan | ..nl => nl_NL |
| 22:15.17 | MuffinMan | ..es => es_ES |
| 22:15.18 | MuffinMan | .. |
| 22:15.20 | MuffinMan | ..as mentioned on #asterisk-dev by kpfleming and agreed upon by: |
| 22:15.23 | MuffinMan | ..qwell, bkruse, corydon, myself |
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| 22:24.40 | mvanbaak | kpfleming: like that ? |
| 22:28.54 | *** part/#asterisk-dev oron (n=oron@line25-214.adsl.actcom.co.il) |
| 22:30.14 | kpfleming | yes, thanks |
| 22:31.04 | mvanbaak | no problem |
| 22:31.10 | mvanbaak | thank you for the input |
| 22:31.48 | mvanbaak | now jsmith has to post their comments on the xml format |
| 22:31.58 | mvanbaak | so we can finish that discussion |
| 22:32.05 | mvanbaak | and start working on the details |
| 22:32.45 | jsmith | mvanbaak: I'd love to -- just as soon as I get done teaching this class! |
| 22:33.07 | mvanbaak | no problem |
| 22:33.10 | jsmith | mvanbaak: My first observation is going to be that I'd like to have some XML tags to use within the description field |
| 22:33.13 | mvanbaak | it's way past my bedtime |
| 22:33.33 | mvanbaak | and I have a cat on both of my shoulders |
| 22:33.39 | jsmith | mvanbaak: for things like <replaceable> and <variable> (from DocBook) |
| 22:34.16 | jsmith | mvanbaak: That way, for the web/pdf/DocBook output, we can format those different to show that they're replaceable or a variable |
| 22:34.33 | mvanbaak | jsmith: yeah. |
| 22:34.42 | mvanbaak | just post it to the -dev thread pleace |
| 22:34.44 | jsmith | mvanbaak: (obviously Asterisk would just ignore those tags if it wanted to, or color them differently using ANSI colors, or whatever) |
| 22:34.48 | mvanbaak | that way it wont be lost |
| 22:34.52 | jsmith | mvanbaak: I will just as soon as I get a free second |
| 22:35.17 | mvanbaak | I'll review the whole thread again in like 18 hours and take whatever needed and put it in our todo |
| 22:35.52 | mvanbaak | send another note to the -dev list to ask for final comments |
| 22:35.57 | mvanbaak | and start working from there |
| 22:36.01 | mvanbaak | give ppl some time |
| 22:39.30 | mvanbaak | time to get some sleep |
| 22:39.32 | mvanbaak | latero all |
| 22:41.40 | jsmith | Hasta luego |
| 22:55.13 | sruffell | tzafrir_laptop, kpfleming: If you're still around, I've placed my sample configuration files in the root of dahdi-tools, but I noticed in http://svn.digium.com/view/dahdi?view=rev&revision=4543 that system.conf was placed in the doc directory (after committing everything..) I can move all the new configuration files to the doc folder and drop the .sample if that's what we want? |
| 22:55.51 | sruffell | ...I don't feel too strongly, but didn't want to make another commit to make things consistent if it's just going to be moved later anyway. |
| 22:56.07 | tzafrir_laptop | I put it in doc/ . I wonder if this is a nicer place |
| 22:56.21 | tzafrir_laptop | Likewise, I don't feel strongly either way |
| 22:56.40 | tzafrir_laptop | (it == system.conf) |
| 22:58.03 | tzafrir_laptop | en == en_US? es == es_ES? |
| 22:58.28 | tzafrir_laptop | ah, ok |
| 23:00.21 | tzafrir_laptop | BTW: what xml library do you use? |
| 23:01.12 | tzafrir_laptop | (at asterisk runtime) |
| 23:01.24 | tzafrir_laptop | mvanbaak, ==^ |
| 23:04.00 | kpfleming | well, i'm not thrilled about files being in /doc in the tree but ending up in /etc/dahdi on the system |
| 23:04.27 | kpfleming | in dahdi-linux, we've split things up so the source structure is similar to the target structure, and we should probabyl do the same for dahdi-tools |
| 23:04.53 | kpfleming | so tonezone.h, for example, should move to dahdi-tools/trunk/include/dahdi, since that is where it will land on the target system (or a similar path) |
| 23:04.54 | kpfleming | comments? |
| 23:05.08 | sruffell | that sounds good to me.... |
| 23:07.02 | tzafrir_laptop | not installed there. Just in the source tree |
| 23:08.51 | tzafrir_laptop | the target directory is not exactly related to functionality |
| 23:09.09 | tzafrir_laptop | I wouldn't look for sample/reference under etc/ |
| 23:09.45 | sruffell | maybe sample is the wrong suffix then...perhaps .default? |
| 23:10.13 | tzafrir_laptop | Why is there a need for a suffix? |
| 23:11.04 | tzafrir_laptop | Where does it help? |
| 23:11.59 | Corydon76-dig | tzafrir_laptop: color vs colour |
| 23:12.56 | Corydon76-dig | US spelling vs British spelling |
| 23:13.17 | Corydon76-dig | Obviously, the Brits are crazy, but we humor them occasionally |
| 23:13.33 | kpfleming | s/humor/humour/ |
| 23:19.07 | sruffell | primarily trying to maintain consistency with zaptel.conf.sample. But otherwise....no suffix is fine with me. The only thing that comes to mind is that perhaps the .sample suffix makes it (slightly more) clear that it's just a sample to be installed if there isn't one already on the system. |
| 23:27.51 | kpfleming | that's what we do with asterisk, so people are comfortable with that model |
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