| 00:01.18 | A3Sheds | the 3.0.17 kernel source has been pushed to git |
| 00:06.52 | A3Sheds | it's a work in progress, but most is done |
| 00:27.19 | eduprey | A2Sheds: ah source for mali GPU is 3.0? one more important reason to update to 3.0 for a10?? |
| 00:27.22 | ka6sox | kewl |
| 00:55.13 | A2Sheds | eduprey: the kernel source is 3.0.17 for the A10 |
| 00:56.36 | eduprey | A2Sheds: ahhh |
| 00:56.48 | eduprey | was confused between the two topics, nevermind |
| 00:56.58 | A2Sheds | lichee/for-next @ https://alioth.debian.org/plugins/scmgit/cgi-bin/gitweb.cgi?p=arm-netbook/arm-netbook.git;a=summary |
| 00:57.44 | A2Sheds | no problem, I should have been more clear |
| 00:58.09 | eduprey | A2Sheds: and re marvell, closed source people really don't get it, do they? |
| 00:58.13 | A2Sheds | eduprey: Luc's Mali source should be available after his talk at Fosdem on Saturday |
| 00:58.27 | A2Sheds | eduprey: nope :) |
| 00:59.41 | A2Sheds | what's somebody going to to do with the Vivante register guide? Invade Poland? |
| 00:59.52 | eduprey | lol |
| 01:01.17 | eduprey | A2Sheds: so we were talking webos at some point, right? one of the things ka6sox and I are working on, once source code comes out for webos is to port it to new tablets, phones, possibly netbooks etc. A10, Exynos based hardware etc just jumped way up on my list of target hardware to port to (and well EOMA stuff is on there as well for obvious reasons anyway) |
| 01:02.03 | eduprey | I really want to support hardware with open GPU drivers (even if they're not production quality right away) |
| 01:02.37 | A2Sheds | ah hah |
| 01:02.42 | A2Sheds | a plan |
| 01:03.02 | A2Sheds | good, I'm trying to stick with hardware :) |
| 01:03.58 | eduprey | A2Sheds: and though webos was designed for phones and now tablets, I don't see any reason why we can't make it work on netbook / laptop / desktop / set top box / car computer etc |
| 01:04.11 | A2Sheds | Freescale i.mx6 has moved to Vivante |
| 01:04.30 | A2Sheds | Samsung is Mali |
| 01:05.02 | eduprey | yeah looking at Exynos Samsung Galaxy 2S and Galaxy Tab 7.0 plus |
| 01:05.10 | eduprey | err s/2S/II-S/ |
| 01:05.53 | A2Sheds | I'm waiting to hear back from Samsung on the 4420 dual cortex a9 and the 5xxx cortex A15 |
| 01:06.13 | A2Sheds | http://www.anandtech.com/show/5169/samsung-exynos-5250-announced-cortexa15-2ghz-dualcore |
| 01:06.17 | A2Sheds | all Mali |
| 01:06.30 | eduprey | nice. and yeah seems like all exynos is |
| 01:06.33 | eduprey | right? |
| 01:06.43 | A2Sheds | from what Luc said |
| 01:07.52 | A2Sheds | http://www.samsung.com/global/business/semiconductor/productInfo.do?fmly_id=844&partnum=Exynos%204210 |
| 01:07.54 | eduprey | A2Sheds: one thing I like with exynos on samsung devices is as of yet they have never used their secure boot / lock down stuff |
| 01:09.03 | eduprey | like I think the capability is there but all custom android distros for their platform have been trivial to get full access, no bootloader locks or anything |
| 01:09.57 | eduprey | obviously not as big a deal when you're making your own computer on card anyway |
| 01:10.45 | A2Sheds | if open moko hadn't been such a mess we'd have open phones by now |
| 01:11.06 | A2Sheds | "almost" open moko |
| 01:12.00 | eduprey | yeah.. who was that who was doing a replacement system board to fit freerunners? |
| 01:12.09 | eduprey | like a modernization / update |
| 01:12.25 | A2Sheds | haven't head, I could if the CAD files are there in the open |
| 01:13.15 | A2Sheds | but last I checked the mechanicals were not open or schematics |
| 01:13.37 | A2Sheds | I could reverse it but I'd rather start from scratch |
| 01:13.59 | A2Sheds | or work with a taiwan phone maker |
| 01:14.05 | eduprey | yeah at any rate, you can't buy new freerunners so the upgrade wouldn't be that useful |
| 01:14.10 | eduprey | only for people who already have it |
| 01:14.46 | A2Sheds | where is the old tooling? |
| 01:14.55 | A2Sheds | what a waste |
| 01:15.00 | eduprey | indeed |
| 01:15.12 | A2Sheds | that's why I'd rather just move on |
| 01:15.23 | A2Sheds | like a bad date |
| 01:15.24 | *** join/#arm-netbook memleak (~ALEC@unaffiliated/memleak) |
| 01:16.11 | A2Sheds | get outtah here 3sheds! |
| 01:16.22 | A3Sheds | ok |
| 01:17.15 | eduprey | A2Sheds: anyway if people here want to work on an open phone, I think webos would be a decent OS to run on it |
| 01:17.24 | A2Sheds | sure |
| 01:17.29 | eduprey | once open webos is out that is |
| 01:17.56 | eduprey | I heard about Tizen but not that excited about it at this point |
| 01:18.35 | A2Sheds | bodhilinux |
| 01:18.46 | A2Sheds | been watching those guys |
| 01:18.47 | memleak | wasn't webos developed by HP right before they dropped out of the tablet market? |
| 01:19.15 | A2Sheds | yes, they are opening the source later this year for webos |
| 01:20.09 | A2Sheds | eduprey: if you want to dig up the CAD files for openmoko go ahead if you think it will go anywhere |
| 01:20.51 | eduprey | let me see if I can find the name of that openmoko revival :) |
| 01:21.09 | A2Sheds | they won't even have to support anything, unless there is some lawsuit over ownership or rights |
| 01:21.34 | eduprey | A2Sheds: ah ok http://www.handheld-linux.com/wiki.php?page=GTA04 |
| 01:21.39 | A2Sheds | in fact, find out who owns the tooling |
| 01:21.42 | eduprey | GTA04 is the new system board |
| 01:22.22 | A2Sheds | we could just start making new ones and pay them a royalty for each set of plastics |
| 01:23.22 | A2Sheds | I'm pretty sure Luke knows the open moko people |
| 01:23.24 | eduprey | A2Sheds: EOMA-CF perhaps? |
| 01:24.25 | A2Sheds | well the original board isn't modular, but I could probably have a CF and USB 3G dongle fit inside |
| 01:26.33 | eduprey | A2Sheds: yeah I remember hearing that some Huwei (maybe others) USB 3G modules can be used as full mobile stack, voice, sms, data etc |
| 01:27.56 | A2Sheds | yeah, the drivers and stack are all there |
| 01:36.18 | A2Sheds | maybe work out a deal with Clear in the US |
| 01:37.25 | A2Sheds | but it's so nutty here now that they would want some backdoor in the stack or driver |
| 01:37.32 | A2Sheds | think of the children |
| 01:46.29 | eduprey | A2Sheds: yeah it's getting quite crazy here in US |
| 08:41.26 | *** join/#arm-netbook ibot (~ibot@rikers.org) |
| 08:41.26 | *** topic/#arm-netbook is EOMA: Embedded Open Modular Architecture - Don't ask to ask. Just ask! - http://elinux.org/Embedded_Open_Modular_Architecture/EOMA-68 - ML arm-netbook@lists.phcomp.co.uk - Logs http://ibot.rikers.org/%23arm-netbook - http://rhombus-tech.net/ |
| 08:58.19 | memleak | ever have those times where you fall asleep on your keyboard, you look up, and notice a bunch of jibberish? |
| 08:59.02 | eduprey | memleak: lol yeah |
| 09:01.09 | memleak | i should get some sleep. good night folks! just pushed another patch in before bed (win) take care! |
| 09:06.25 | *** join/#arm-netbook gordan (~gordan@31.100.109.19) |
| 12:07.23 | ManoftheSea | gt04 - phoneix |
| 13:45.29 | lkcl | eduprey: it's goldelico. dr schaeller. yes i've spoken to him already about doing an EOMA68 version of the GTA04 board. he expressed... nervousness about "teaching chinese companies how to rip him off", which is a pity. |
| 13:47.23 | lkcl | the problem with 3G USB dongles is that when you look at them properly, they're actually huge in size. |
| 13:48.00 | lkcl | then you look at e.g. the Option GTM Mini-PCIe modules and those are a standard size - 30mm x 24 x 4.5 to 5mm |
| 13:48.26 | A2Sheds | oh give me a break, I'll make a board |
| 13:48.29 | lkcl | as compared to say 80mm x 25 x 13mm (!!!!) for a USB modem |
| 13:48.33 | lkcl | *grins* |
| 13:48.44 | lkcl | that would be superb! |
| 13:48.46 | A2Sheds | they already male 11dy million phones a month |
| 13:49.33 | lkcl | using the same module that goldelico used would be brilliant. they picked it precisely because it's available even in qty 1 |
| 13:49.48 | lkcl | it's from Option, and it's damn small. |
| 13:50.14 | lkcl | btw, Dr Stallman asked me if i could put together a BOM for a FSF-Endorseable tablet. |
| 13:50.50 | A2Sheds | we can buy tooling or phone cases from a few co's in China or Taiwan |
| 13:50.56 | lkcl | i figured the simplest way to do that would be with two mini pci-e modules (ath9k, option GTM6somethingsomething) |
| 13:51.11 | lkcl | yes. it's peanuts. don't for goodness sake do redesigns |
| 13:52.14 | lkcl | http://www.option.com/en/products/products/embedded-solutions/gtm661-669/specifications/#start |
| 13:53.22 | A2Sheds | yes, just just use USB |
| 13:53.36 | A2Sheds | and uart |
| 14:03.28 | A2Sheds | emoa in keyboard and/or lcd monitor for all in one PC first, then probably a tablet followed by netbook |
| 14:04.36 | A2Sheds | and probably several dev boards by numerous devs |
| 14:22.02 | A2Sheds | http://www.linuxfordevices.com/c/a/News/EMAC-SoM3517M/ SODIMM-sized Cortex-A8 module sports CAN bus, onboard flash |
| 14:22.46 | A2Sheds | "the SoM-250ES carrier board is said to cost $199 in its bare-bone incarnation" seriously, who is going to buy this? |
| 14:23.38 | A2Sheds | http://www.linuxfordevices.com/c/a/News/Golden-Delicious-Openmoko-GTA04/ |
| 14:25.11 | A2Sheds | Openmoko GTA04 is available now for 666.66 Euros ($873) for the GTA04 upgrade board and 749 Euros ($981) as a complete phone with case and battery, says |
| 14:29.23 | lkcl | it's ridiculous, isn't it. i'm just very very confused by the pricing. people keep telling me "oh yes, what you want is to abandon the EOMA initiative and use colibri's $200 tegra2 SO-DIMM, or this german company's iMX53 $150+ SO-DIMM, or the zms08 $150+ SO-DIMM" |
| 14:31.17 | mnemoc | my boss' answer was "who is sellings EOMA cards right now? ... fine, but I don't build products on vapour." |
| 14:32.00 | mnemoc | different will be when there are actual cards... hopefully |
| 14:33.42 | mnemoc | in the mean time we'll use http://www.armkits.com/product/mini8510.asp |
| 14:33.46 | mnemoc | narf |
| 14:38.27 | mnemoc | it's a very cute module... but I was hoping to be able to "sell" eoma to him on time :-/ |
| 14:39.13 | A2Sheds | yes, he'd have to wait a few weeks, how many thousand does he need? |
| 14:39.58 | mnemoc | mine is a one customer one device business |
| 14:40.47 | mnemoc | car wash tunnel controllers... in total we about around 300 customers |
| 14:41.59 | mnemoc | good money, but it will never on the "thousands" level |
| 14:42.51 | A2Sheds | I wonder what AMD has brewing for ARM |
| 14:46.09 | mnemoc | they may join to strike against intel on servers |
| 14:47.34 | A2Sheds | mnemoc: I understand the position of your boss. I have worked with co's that couldn't get their product to market even after having their product ready for market |
| 14:48.39 | A2Sheds | AMD is in a strong position to bring graphics to ARM and compete with tegra |
| 14:49.45 | mnemoc | did MS buy nvidia yet? |
| 14:49.46 | A2Sheds | that's where AMD's last CEO missed it completely, I often wondered if he was paid off to ignore ARM or just unwise |
| 14:50.01 | lkcl | mnemoc: 256mb RAM?? |
| 14:50.08 | A2Sheds | nvidia is actually doing pretty well |
| 14:50.12 | lkcl | A2Sheds: just unwise. |
| 14:50.31 | A2Sheds | http://www.google.com/finance?cid=662925 |
| 14:50.32 | mnemoc | lkcl: in my context it's plenty |
| 14:50.37 | lkcl | ohh ok. |
| 14:50.55 | A2Sheds | heh, how do you become CEO and yet be that clueless at the same time? |
| 14:51.04 | lkcl | still... pricing is what... $150? |
| 14:51.16 | A2Sheds | $99 just for the cpu card |
| 14:51.24 | lkcl | that's not bad. |
| 14:51.26 | A2Sheds | baseboard extra |
| 14:51.53 | mnemoc | baseboard is custom.... I wanted it designed for eoma... but failed |
| 14:52.14 | lkcl | devkit8000.... hang on, that's quickembed! |
| 14:52.23 | mnemoc | embest actually |
| 14:52.29 | A2Sheds | but isn't the $99 the 1K price and then they factor it by 1.5 in the price sheet to add confusion or mislead skimmers |
| 14:52.40 | lkcl | that's franson! |
| 14:52.47 | lkcl | he's a good man, he is. |
| 14:54.12 | mnemoc | so you know the owner? :) |
| 14:54.24 | *** mode/#arm-netbook [-o mnemoc] by mnemoc |
| 14:54.47 | lkcl | i've spoken with him before. |
| 15:00.36 | A2Sheds | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imageon remember these? |
| 15:01.14 | A2Sheds | AMD got out of this business just before it took off |
| 15:01.18 | lkcl | yeah. i had to reverse-engineer the startup procedure for one of them, in 2005, for the HTC Blueangel |
| 15:01.24 | lkcl | doh! |
| 15:03.02 | A2Sheds | the AMD devs would laugh at ARM and say "it just around the corner" |
| 15:03.28 | A2Sheds | now some of them work for Qualcomm, heh |
| 15:03.38 | mnemoc | lkcl: OT: do you know if stock python webkit2 bindings will include dom support? |
| 15:04.09 | lkcl | mnemoc: of course. there isn't anything *other* than dom support |
| 15:04.22 | lkcl | hang on... what's this about "webkit2"? |
| 15:08.25 | mnemoc | in the stock python webkit1 bindings in ubuntu the only way to extract info is mangling the title... pretty useless.... and was wondering if the changes to hook python callbacks and stuff in the rendering was "mainlined" for webkit2 |
| 15:09.26 | mnemoc | haven't looked at it in over a year, but I have a project frozen until real local python apps can use webkit as gui over standard unmodified ubuntu |
| 15:09.49 | mnemoc | "webkit2" was kind of my hope |
| 15:35.02 | mnemoc | it's pretty sad that everything seems to move around "embed your a browser here" instead of using webkit as widget engine |
| 15:35.16 | mnemoc | s/your// |
| 15:52.12 | A2Sheds | ibot eoma68 is Embedded Open Modular Architecture with a 68 pin connector |
| 15:52.12 | ibot | A2Sheds: okay |
| 15:54.18 | A2Sheds | ibot eoma68 is Embedded Open Modular Architecture 55mm x 85mm card with a 68 pin connector http://elinux.org/Embedded_Open_Modular_Architecture/EOMA-68 |
| 15:54.18 | ibot | ...but eoma68 is already something else... |
| 15:59.20 | A2Sheds | ibot eoma-cf is Embedded Open Modular Architecture with a 50 pin connector in the compact flash form factor http://elinux.org/Embedded_Open_Modular_Architecture/CompactFlash |
| 15:59.20 | ibot | A2Sheds: okay |
| 15:59.31 | A2Sheds | eoma-cf |
| 15:59.36 | A2Sheds | eoma-cf? |
| 16:40.04 | A2Sheds | http://armdevices.net/2012/01/12/always-innovating-omap4-hdmi-dongle/ "$30 BOM OMAP4" ?? are they actually selling them to anybody yet? |
| 17:08.11 | eduprey | A2Sheds: standard infobot is like |
| 17:08.19 | eduprey | ~eoma-cf |
| 17:08.19 | ibot | extra, extra, read all about it, eoma-cf is Embedded Open Modular Architecture with a 50 pin connector in the compact flash form factor http://elinux.org/Embedded_Open_Modular_Architecture/CompactFlash |
| 17:08.57 | eduprey | ~eoma68 |
| 17:08.58 | ibot | somebody said eoma68 was Embedded Open Modular Architecture with a 68 pin connector |
| 17:09.27 | eduprey | ibot: no, eoma68 is Embedded Open Modular Architecture 55mm x 85mm card with a 68 pin connector http://elinux.org/Embedded_Open_Modular_Architecture/EOMA-68 |
| 17:09.27 | ibot | okay, eduprey |
| 17:11.52 | A2Sheds | lotsa bots |
| 17:13.08 | eduprey | A2Sheds: nicknames infobot and ibot have the same database backend, so infobot in #webos-internals can now talk about eoma68 too :) |
| 17:13.43 | eduprey | other channels too of course |
| 17:17.36 | mnemoc | sounds risky |
| 17:18.16 | lkcl | mnemoc: nnope on the webkit2 stuff. the webkit developers were extremely resentful of the fact that i was an independent software developer, and deliberately fucked up the gobject bindings. |
| 17:18.44 | mnemoc | :( |
| 17:19.11 | lkcl | mnemoc: you _can_ use webkit as a widget engine - and MSHTML (Trident), and xulrunner. you want the pyjamas-desktop project. |
| 17:19.46 | mnemoc | lkcl: ppa for pyjamas-desktop yet? :) |
| 17:19.49 | eduprey | lkcl: some of these stories about non-cooperation even in "open" projects are just crazy, I didn't realize the overall situation was this bad |
| 17:21.31 | lkcl | the bugreport for the original gobject bindings had 250+ comments. 80% of those were dealing with the progressively-extreme goalpost moving. towards the end i was submitting files as patches with _one_ line of code in them, and mark rowe _still_ found something to complain about that one line. |
| 17:21.53 | eduprey | lkcl: wow. just wow. |
| 17:21.54 | mnemoc | :-/ |
| 17:22.08 | lkcl | if you want python bindings in webkit, you're going to have to get onto the webkit-dev mailing list and ask. |
| 17:22.09 | A2Sheds | lots of control issues or people just wanting to be petty tyrants |
| 17:22.25 | eduprey | lkcl: also re GTA04, I just don't see people buying a > $1000 phone when superior hardware can be found for hundreds of dollars less |
| 17:22.32 | lkcl | basically yes. |
| 17:22.41 | A2Sheds | the socialization is cleverly taught in most public schools the past few decades |
| 17:22.56 | lkcl | eduprey: yes, precisely. although if you bought 1,000 you could take advantage of reduction in component costs. |
| 17:23.23 | lkcl | but you'd still be 8-12 weeks lead time (which is fairly normal). |
| 17:24.06 | A2Sheds | honestly, why will somebody pay >$900 for a phone? |
| 17:24.14 | lkcl | i did try to explain to dr schaller that if you cut out at least one of those components (the main CPU) onto an EOMA card it would help there but he wasn't having it |
| 17:24.20 | eduprey | lkcl: using EOMA would save them on components cost. And TBH if China wants to rip him off they'll do it with or without EOMA, most shops find a way to run extra units of popular devices for them to sell out the back door |
| 17:24.54 | A2Sheds | it's silly, can't they buy his $1k phone and copy it, or did I just discover something new? |
| 17:25.16 | lkcl | A2Sheds: someone who doesn't want to do reverse-engineering to run the OS of their choice. FSF people would pay it... but the phones have a non-free firmware blob for WIFI |
| 17:25.31 | lkcl | why would they want to copy something that has no OS software?? :) |
| 17:25.44 | A2Sheds | ok so 3-4 people will buy it :) |
| 17:26.31 | lkcl | chinese factories do "solutions" - they want stuff that can just roll out, and the orders will magically turn up in the 10k to 100k region and they don't have to think, just copy. |
| 17:26.34 | A2Sheds | somebody just thinks a bit too highly of themselves |
| 17:26.53 | lkcl | well i wouldn't go that far - i'd say "someone has a bit of a learning curve ahead of them". |
| 17:27.53 | lkcl | i offered him a chance - a way out of the upcoming hole. there will be _some_ people willing to buy, at least, which would help keep the project going. |
| 17:27.59 | A2Sheds | the software talent is there in China, only those devs tend to leave for jobs that actually pay outside China |
| 17:28.38 | A2Sheds | maybe he's not interested since it's not his idea? |
| 17:29.10 | *** join/#arm-netbook hipboi_ (~hipboi@221.4.213.95) |
| 17:29.42 | A2Sheds | after we have the modules, then anyone can build things |
| 17:37.01 | lkcl | hipboi_, are you around at all? need a bit of help - we're missing schematics for the SATA. identified the pins that need a Crystal, etc. etc. but we're hosed without an example schematic, if there's any EM protection etc. etc. |
| 17:37.11 | mnemoc | lkcl: I'm probably not alone on this but I really can't deploy a system which relies on customly compiled libraries.... only having an official ppa would make it possible for me |
| 17:38.31 | lkcl | mnemoc: you mean debian packaging? phil got 1/2 way through it. it _does_ work (what i did). it just needs double-checking and uploading. |
| 17:40.11 | mnemoc | lkcl: a ppa is ubuntu's way to integrate third party deb packages into the normal package maintainance of the system, they get compiled on their servers for all architectures and versions |
| 17:40.26 | A2Sheds | Alec's 3.0.17 kernel work is up now |
| 17:41.09 | A2Sheds | https://alioth.debian.org/plugins/scmgit/cgi-bin/gitweb.cgi?p=arm-netbook/arm-netbook.git;a=summary |
| 17:41.20 | lkcl | yay! |
| 17:41.58 | A2Sheds | he's been wearing out motherboards |
| 17:42.33 | lkcl | :) |
| 17:42.35 | mnemoc | A2Sheds: what branch? |
| 17:42.52 | A2Sheds | lichee/for-next |
| 17:43.12 | A2Sheds | https://alioth.debian.org/plugins/scmgit/cgi-bin/gitweb.cgi?p=arm-netbook/arm-netbook.git;a=shortlog;h=refs/heads/lichee/for-next |
| 17:45.39 | A2Sheds | TI was showing off the $40 BOM omap4460, but the 4460 is still only allocated for phone customers |
| 18:09.17 | mnemoc | A2Sheds: right now in #edev you can find prpplague, David Anders from TI on omap4 and omap5 "special projects", maybe you can convinse him to direct you with someone who can actually sell you chips... |
| 18:15.10 | A2Sheds | mnemoc: I have, i just get sarcastic responses |
| 18:15.17 | mnemoc | :( |
| 18:15.35 | A2Sheds | I even had the product manager call me and he "didn't get it" |
| 18:16.06 | A2Sheds | so it looks like they don't want any new customers, they are happy with what they do now |
| 18:17.51 | A2Sheds | so I see the CES $40 BOM omap44xx as just BS |
| 18:18.42 | mnemoc | what about trying to "sell" eoma to always innovating people? |
| 18:18.55 | mnemoc | they are already customers... |
| 18:19.26 | A2Sheds | I'm sure they will hear of it |
| 18:20.40 | mnemoc | i mean so they can join the effort now, not after the a10 are already made |
| 18:21.44 | A2Sheds | the a10 is already done, or do you mean the IO boards or? |
| 18:22.40 | A2Sheds | the standard is open |
| 18:23.15 | eduprey | A2Sheds: lkcl can't wait for factory to make cards. anticipation is killing me :) |
| 18:23.25 | lkcl | :) |
| 18:23.45 | eduprey | lkcl: they're gearing back up now after new year break? |
| 18:23.54 | A2Sheds | i can already smell the solder paste |
| 18:24.10 | lkcl | eduprey: yep. geoff's going to prompt them about the BOM price estimation. |
| 18:24.56 | mnemoc | A2Sheds: i mean the cards. The standard is open sure, but just with "having it" is not enough for anyone else to adopt it... and without adoption is not better than any other pin out |
| 18:25.52 | A2Sheds | mnemoc: I'm not too concerned with adoption, too many products to make |
| 18:26.26 | eduprey | mnemoc: IMO it's a snowball thing, the more that use it the more that will |
| 18:26.30 | ManoftheSea | So... I can start throwing money at you again? |
| 18:26.58 | eduprey | and we apparently already have interest beyond the stuff we in the list / channel are planning |
| 18:27.23 | A2Sheds | money and performance is the bottom line, those that ignore it have other agendas |
| 18:28.33 | eduprey | mnemoc: as for me, I just want an EOMA cluster for home and maybe work and EOMA tablets, phones, and laptops (even if I have to make them) :) |
| 18:29.47 | A2Sheds | the cpu modules take all the hard/difficult parts of a product's design and puts them in an easy to use card |
| 18:30.39 | mnemoc | eduprey: I do too... I personally don't have any interest in "profiting" on this.... but those products will not exist without broader adoption.... and that means getting OTHER companies interested |
| 18:30.42 | A2Sheds | at $100 -200 the eoma68 cards won't have any appeal, but at $25-35 it's hard to resist |
| 18:30.42 | ManoftheSea | sure, it seperates form and function. |
| 18:31.24 | A2Sheds | by money I mean low cost, that what the majority of consumers need |
| 18:31.53 | A2Sheds | and they also need acceptable performance for browsing, email, youtube etc |
| 18:32.57 | eduprey | mnemoc: oh and the one thing I'd like to sell as a product is a 3d printer electronics board to use them. 3d printer hobbyists are using $40+ arduinos now which is just silly |
| 18:33.48 | A2Sheds | the BOM for a netbook will be $60 |
| 18:34.48 | eduprey | A2Sheds: nice |
| 18:35.38 | mnemoc | I would gladly pay 500E for a well made (thinkpad style) 12" eoma laptop |
| 18:36.00 | A2Sheds | an all-in-one LCD or keyboard style desktop PC a few $$ more |
| 18:36.04 | mnemoc | but I wouldn't pay 200E for one that bends when you type.... like all netbooks around |
| 18:36.43 | ManoftheSea | A well made laptop, where you can upgrade the internals? |
| 18:36.47 | ManoftheSea | hells yeah! |
| 18:36.52 | A2Sheds | the BOM cost between a flexible netbook and rigid netbook is a few $$ |
| 18:37.54 | A2Sheds | most people don't recognize quality anymore |
| 18:38.31 | A2Sheds | they have been well trained |
| 18:38.43 | lkcl | well... you _say_ it'll be more, but a multi-layer PCB that spans 10in in a laptop isn't cheap |
| 18:39.02 | lkcl | whereas here, with EOMA cards you could probably get away with a 2-layer PCB (with care) |
| 18:41.49 | A2Sheds | thermally conductive flexible silicon, it would be nice to have a tablet that bounces when you drop it without any damage |
| 18:42.15 | eduprey | products are obviously the key thing but still I plan on trying my hand at salvaging old / system board dead laptops, wiring in EOMA sockets to upgrade them :) |
| 18:43.08 | A2Sheds | there are lots of materials out there that get ignored, and I'm pretty tired of hearing about "innovative" products that aren't very innovative |
| 18:43.25 | eduprey | A2Sheds: HP folks have been carrying around flexible screens to conferences and so on |
| 18:43.45 | eduprey | no idea when you can actually buy one |
| 18:44.00 | A2Sheds | maybe we'll print them |
| 18:44.03 | eduprey | but a flexible screen + flexible PCB + EOMA-CF would be awesome |
| 18:48.02 | A2Sheds | http://techcrunch.com/2009/08/19/a-peek-under-the-hood-of-a-netbook/ |
| 18:48.52 | A2Sheds | http://eeepc.net/wp-content/uploads/2009/02/dell-mini-12-teardown1.jpg |
| 18:49.20 | A2Sheds | http://www.flickr.com/photos/netbooknews/4594593875/ |
| 18:51.59 | eduprey | A2Sheds: yeah wow, so much of that board goes away |
| 18:52.09 | A2Sheds | http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_defzNnDTni8/TGWkUc9N0ZI/AAAAAAAAAqY/0maNW5BFqBo/s1600/droid2.jpg that mainboard is pretty small already |
| 18:54.23 | eduprey | A2Sheds: yeah I think one cool thing would be to make a replacement system board for a common phone that just takes an EOMA-CF -- I had been thinking palm pre simply because their comm board is already separate (too bad they don't make them anymore though) |
| 18:55.05 | A2Sheds | having an inexpensive new phone will happen |
| 18:55.55 | eduprey | ok. hoping so. -- I can potentially buy a lot of them for webos internals folks |
| 19:00.24 | eduprey | there are some existing phones with Mali they might want to port to, but not necessarily inexpensive |
| 19:00.56 | eduprey | and obviously not upgradable with new SoC in future |
| 19:06.42 | A2Sheds | eduprey: there could be a range of products for demo by Computex in June |
| 19:15.27 | lkcl | i've sent a message to wits-tech asking them for example schematics for the SATA. |
| 19:17.08 | eduprey | lkcl: don't know if I've missed it on the ML, but is anyone here developing host boards for the EOMA cards yet? |
| 19:17.50 | lkcl | it's not really been raised (significantly) but there's a couple of commercial projects considering it. |
| 19:18.09 | lkcl | Dr Stallman asked me to put together a BOM for an FSF-Hardware-Endorseable tablet |
| 19:18.20 | lkcl | there's a confidential project i can't tell you about |
| 19:18.37 | lkcl | and there's an LCD monitor company who want "in" as well. |
| 19:19.01 | A2Sheds | lkcl: SATA is just series caps to connector |
| 19:19.02 | mnemoc | nice :) |
| 19:20.33 | lkcl | A2Sheds: yes, but what's the frequency of the crystal to be connected to CLKM_SATA and CLKP_SATA (pins P19 and R19) ? |
| 19:21.20 | lkcl | also because SATA is just LVDS (differential lines), M16 and M15 are 1.25v reference voltage and N16 and N15 are 2.50v reference |
| 19:21.28 | lkcl | M14 and N13 are SATA GND. |
| 19:22.15 | A2Sheds | 25MHz |
| 19:23.58 | eduprey | lkcl: I guess really for developers to get started we don't need anything, can just hook up the card to power and have mini-HDMI and USB OTG externally. but some open source version of that engineering board might be nice |
| 19:24.54 | lkcl | precisely. |
| 19:25.04 | A2Sheds | eduprey: I'm sure there will be more than one |
| 19:25.30 | mnemoc | and some hints about how to boot from SD without using the chinese windows app :) |
| 19:25.33 | lkcl | yes. actually that's almost trivial to do. take the leaflabs maple kicad schematics, and add um... an ethernet, usb and SATA socket. |
| 19:25.59 | lkcl | how hard can _that_ be? |
| 19:26.11 | lkcl | mnemoc, i hear ya :) |
| 19:26.18 | A2Sheds | sure just write some software :) |
| 19:26.24 | A2Sheds | heh |
| 19:26.45 | eduprey | mnemoc: boot from USB also requires chinese windows app for now? |
| 19:26.58 | eduprey | those are things we need to do something about I guess :) |
| 19:27.01 | A2Sheds | mnemoc: nobody gotten around to reversing the chinese windows app? |
| 19:27.06 | mnemoc | eduprey: afaik that even requires shorting something |
| 19:27.32 | A2Sheds | mnemoc: do you recall what pins? |
| 19:27.49 | mnemoc | A2Sheds: it may be written on the elinux.org page |
| 19:27.53 | A2Sheds | we should make that accessible on the cards |
| 19:28.22 | lkcl | A2Sheds: it's one of the switches i left on the schematics i sent you |
| 19:28.38 | lkcl | a switch connected to u-boot sel |
| 19:29.54 | A2Sheds | where's that bootloader page? |
| 19:30.10 | A2Sheds | http://elinux.org/Hack_A10_devices |
| 19:30.13 | mnemoc | A2Sheds: I don't have access to any machine with MS software and failed misserably to boot in kvm the image of XP MS provides to test ie6 |
| 19:31.37 | A2Sheds | Alec messes with all the M$ stuff, I'll ask him to take it apart |
| 19:31.55 | mnemoc | A2Sheds: I'm still hoping hipboi_ can write down something... at least to get started |
| 19:32.03 | mnemoc | A2Sheds: neat |
| 19:32.21 | A2Sheds | LiveSuitPack.exe is that it? |
| 19:32.31 | mnemoc | PhoenixCard |
| 19:34.29 | A2Sheds | if you find a link let me know |
| 19:35.01 | mnemoc | I downloaded a "tools.rar" from somewhere once and includes it.... i don't remember from where |
| 19:35.29 | A2Sheds | we need to organize this better |
| 19:35.42 | A2Sheds | wiki with an index maybe |
| 19:36.06 | mnemoc | uploading to google docs :p |
| 19:36.49 | mnemoc | 3%... |
| 19:37.11 | mnemoc | misses his megaupload account |
| 19:38.32 | mnemoc | A2Sheds: try https://filetea.me/t1s106fa |
| 19:38.47 | mnemoc | A2Sheds: seems to be peer-to-peer over http |
| 19:41.48 | mnemoc | slow but you'll have the file :) |
| 19:44.24 | *** join/#arm-netbook memleak (~ALEC@unaffiliated/memleak) |
| 19:44.32 | memleak | Hi! |
| 19:52.58 | lkcl | you've got a bloody wiki! want an index, put the right voodoo magic onto a page! |
| 19:53.00 | lkcl | honestly |
| 19:56.03 | A2Sheds | that sounds like software to me |
| 19:57.32 | A2Sheds | where do I solder the index? :p |
| 20:24.31 | lkcl | *lol* |
| 20:25.49 | mnemoc | whoever did the second download of tools.rar from my link to filetea.me the password is ainol |
| 20:27.37 | mnemoc | last post in linuxdevices is weird... he seems unhappy to have been acquired... |
| 20:28.08 | mnemoc | then why did he sold it...? |
| 20:28.13 | mnemoc | sell* |
| 20:30.39 | mnemoc | ah.... got it... the parent company was bought |
| 20:31.47 | mnemoc | I had the idea it was a one-man thing like armdevices |
| 21:01.00 | lkcl | btw there's been 240 people signed up for preorders. it's about 3 a day. |
| 21:03.12 | eduprey | lkcl: I guess I should sign up on that page too. I expect to need several boards :) |
| 21:03.38 | lkcl | yes it would help. please don't put $15 - you won't get one :) |
| 21:04.02 | eduprey | lkcl: what do we expect for first run, $35? |
| 21:04.28 | lkcl | plus NREs for the tooling on the boards, which usually comes to about $2000. |
| 21:04.47 | lkcl | plus profit, tax, shipping, tax on tax, tax on tax on customs tax, etc. etc. |
| 21:04.53 | eduprey | lol |
| 21:04.57 | eduprey | $1M |
| 21:05.31 | lkcl | i _do_ keep bloody telling people this - jimmy is being bombarded with "hi my name is little johnnie i wanna EOMA card for $15 pleaaase" |
| 21:05.40 | eduprey | lkcl: thought the CIC was keeping profit margins small |
| 21:06.17 | lkcl | eduprey: the profits are what make the project viable for the next version. |
| 21:06.38 | lkcl | everything will be entirely open - the admins are there to decide what happens to the profits. |
| 21:06.52 | lkcl | ok i gotta go, it's damn cold here :) |
| 21:07.05 | eduprey | lkcl: ttfn |
| 21:19.01 | *** join/#arm-netbook gordan (~gordan@78-86-195-86.zone2.bethere.co.uk) |
| 22:41.11 | *** join/#arm-netbook hipboi_ (~hipboi@221.4.213.95) |
