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| 00:53.39 | blau-MikeDG | dopey me, released a version of my app where the donation part was broken |
| 00:53.40 | blau-MikeDG | oops |
| 00:54.02 | blau-MikeDG | wonder how much i lost from that |
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| 01:35.03 | marix | its friday night and i'm in an irc chatroom |
| 01:35.06 | marix | go me!!! |
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| 01:40.42 | Leeds | marix: it's Saturday morning and I only got back from a party a few hours ago! |
| 01:41.29 | fadden | marix: it's Friday night and I'm reading an IRC chat room from work |
| 01:41.55 | fadden | That, however, is about to change. :-) |
| 01:42.41 | unix_infidel | heh, well you guys shouldnt brag. |
| 01:43.07 | unix_infidel | you're quite possibly in the two best party towns for nerds in the world. |
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| 01:44.56 | Leeds | wastrel: ping? |
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| 01:45.39 | wastrel | something happened and i somehow disconnected from freenode |
| 01:46.24 | Versed | are you on the g1? |
| 01:46.32 | Versed | using the ircbeta? |
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| 01:48.11 | Leeds | wastrel: did you see my ping yesterday? |
| 01:49.27 | Leeds | fbreaderj has had a couple of releases, and now remembers the position in books :-) |
| 01:50.06 | wastrel | i am on irssi |
| 01:50.11 | wastrel | Leeds: yeah new fbreader |
| 01:50.12 | wastrel | yay |
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| 01:50.30 | wastrel | Leeds: i'll have to give it a try maybe i can finally put away my palm tx |
| 01:50.41 | Leeds | it's not perfect... but it's now usable :-) |
| 01:51.45 | unix_infidel | ugh, sad, no doc reader or pdf reader but fb2 ;-P |
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| 01:53.05 | Leeds | unix_infidel: I spent about 20 minutes on Thursday night, sitting in a restaurant with two young ladies, searching online for a decent pdf->web viewer |
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| 01:56.02 | unix_infidel | Leeds: scribd? |
| 01:56.31 | Leeds | that works for "I have a URL for a pdf, I need to view it on my G1"? |
| 01:57.04 | Leeds | HK government had *finally* released the latest list of successful visa applications on their website, but only as a PDF |
| 01:58.01 | unix_infidel | ah, nvm it's flash |
| 01:58.31 | unix_infidel | trying to get someone in the country or out ;-P |
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| 02:02.48 | sparkle | hm |
| 02:02.51 | sparkle | leeds, does this not work? |
| 02:02.53 | sparkle | http://www.adobe.com/products/acrobat/access_onlinetools.html |
| 02:03.30 | Leeds | bit when I tried it, no... it got as far as the "we are loading/converting your doc" page and stuck |
| 02:03.36 | Leeds | first place I went :-) |
| 02:03.41 | sparkle | hm |
| 02:05.32 | Leeds | anyway, I then realised that the list was just a list of successful application reference numbers, and I didn't know my number... waited until I got home, looked up my number, and it was on the list :-D |
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| 02:06.56 | Leeds | but I did find a working converter - by the looks of it, it was showing me the output from pdf2html (or possibly pdftohtml, I get them confused) |
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| 02:08.08 | Leeds | http://view.samurajdata.se/ |
| 02:09.57 | unix_infidel | Leeds: to stay in the country? |
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| 02:11.48 | Leeds | unix_infidel: staying in HK isn't too hard as a white UK-passport-holder - UK passports get 6 months whenever you go through passport control, and the nature of HK is such that in over 3.5 years here I've never had a 6 month period without leaving and returning at least once |
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| 02:12.27 | Leeds | the 'white' is because while they can officially refused to renew a tourist visa, in general they won't if you look like a respectable English speaker... |
| 02:13.03 | unix_infidel | lol, you're still on a tourist visa? |
| 02:13.24 | Leeds | what the visa will give me is a guarantee that they won't refuse to let me back in, and the right to work - without the visa being tied to a particular job, which makes me much more flexible in the work I can do |
| 02:13.38 | unix_infidel | ah |
| 02:13.46 | Leeds | I've had a couple of work visas, but I've also had a couple of periods - each one longer than 6 months - when I've reverted to a tourist visa |
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| 02:19.33 | Leeds | immigration stuff isn't taken all that seriously... it's pretty common for people to work for a month or two - or six, or sometimes 36+ - without having a work visa... and I've met a few people who are living here by doing visa runs every few months |
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| 02:23.06 | unix_infidel | tough to get steady work in HK? |
| 02:23.32 | Leeds | yes and no... been a little tough for me... |
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| 02:25.29 | JesusFreke | what's the cost of living like? |
| 02:27.59 | Leeds | relatively low... property (renting or buying) isn't so cheap, although prices have fallen something like 20% this year, booze is a bit expensive, and I'm told that running a car is expensive - but very few people need to, because the public transport is excellent |
| 02:28.25 | JesusFreke | gotcha |
| 02:30.09 | Leeds | I pay about US$1450 a month for a 2-bedroom flat, but it's only 25 minutes walk from the city centre - there are cheaper places... I can get the tram to a lot of places I go regularly, for about US$0.25 |
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| 02:31.59 | Leeds | lunch varies from US$3-4 for mcdonalds or a sandwich, up to about US$20 for a nice big meal... my mobile, on a no-minimum-term contract, is about US$20 per month for unlimited GPRS/EDGE, unlimited wifi and loads of voice - only thing which pumps it up, really, is roaming |
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| 02:34.12 | Leeds | etc, etc. |
| 02:35.13 | Leeds | I reckon my living cost, excluding rent, is around US$2000 per month - and that's living pretty well, covers smaller electronics (e.g. replacement hard drive), lots of eating and drinking out, and so on |
| 02:39.13 | JesusFreke | that's pretty good |
| 02:40.18 | JesusFreke | thanks for the amount of detail too :) |
| 02:40.30 | Leeds | no worries :-) |
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| 02:43.46 | Leeds | oh, the one other thing I would say is that my local gf earns... well, less than a third of what I do, but she supports herself and her mum on that. My numbers above were for an expat not trying particularly hard to live cheaply - locals live a *lot* more cheaply, by default |
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| 02:44.14 | JesusFreke | ah :) |
| 02:44.45 | bgupta | Hey guys... anything interesting happening? |
| 02:45.16 | Leeds | just as a silly example... I live in a 2 bedroom flat... okay, my gf is here most nights, but if I got someone into the second room it would save me a lot of money - but I like having my own place |
| 02:45.29 | JesusFreke | *nod* |
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| 02:48.12 | *** mode/#android [+o morrildl] by ChanServ |
| 02:49.15 | *** topic/#android by morrildl -> Open Source Release: http://source.android.com/ | Android Market is now open for new applications: http://market.android.com/publish | SDK 1.0_r2 is now live: http://tinyurl.com/684d9f |
| 02:49.25 | *** topic/#android by morrildl -> Open Source Release: http://source.android.com/ | Android Market is now open for new applications: http://market.android.com/publish | SDK 1.0_r2 is now available: http://tinyurl.com/684d9f |
| 02:49.29 | morrildl | heh heh |
| 02:49.56 | ttuttle | Ooh, a new release! |
| 02:50.38 | unix_infidel | you guys are sadists, you wait till friday night ;-P |
| 02:50.49 | morrildl | hehehehehehehehe |
| 02:51.16 | JesusFreke | ooo. dev phones available? |
| 02:51.35 | ttuttle | JesusFreke: Not AFAIK. |
| 02:51.42 | JesusFreke | http://code.google.com/android/dev-devices.html |
| 02:51.44 | ttuttle | JesusFreke: Hopefully eventually. |
| 02:52.14 | Leeds | oh! |
| 02:52.22 | jbq | yay, finally announced :) |
| 02:52.36 | ttuttle | suspects the "Android Dev Phone 1" is a G1 just like his own. |
| 02:52.37 | morrildl | jbq: indeed |
| 02:52.39 | Leeds | jbq: since I guess you know... is it an HTC Dream? |
| 02:52.42 | morrildl | ttuttle: is right |
| 02:52.52 | Leeds | no Hong Kong? |
| 02:52.58 | morrildl | Leeds: yes, it's an HTC Dream with an unlocked bootloader |
| 02:53.05 | Leeds | damn... |
| 02:53.09 | morrildl | which, yes, means you can flash custom system images |
| 02:53.25 | ttuttle | morrildl: /me channels romainguy "NO IT'S A T-MOBILE G1! DON'T CALL IT THE DREAM!" |
| 02:53.32 | ttuttle | romainguy_: :P |
| 02:53.36 | morrildl | no |
| 02:53.39 | morrildl | this is not a G1 |
| 02:53.44 | morrildl | it's an Android Dev Phone 1 |
| 02:53.46 | ttuttle | morrildl: Ah. |
| 02:53.52 | morrildl | derived from the HTC Dream :) |
| 02:53.52 | Leeds | don't really care about that too much... do care that it's a) unlocked and b) cheaper than my G1 was |
| 02:53.54 | ttuttle | morrildl: But it's not a Dream either? |
| 02:54.00 | ttuttle | morrildl: The Dream is a top-secret codename! |
| 02:54.11 | morrildl | ttuttle: not any more than HTC Apache or HTC Titan, etc. |
| 02:54.13 | Leeds | morrildl: does it have the non-open stuff on it? |
| 02:54.19 | ttuttle | has been yelled at for calling his Dream a Dream. |
| 02:54.25 | Leeds | e.g. market, windows codecs, youtube? |
| 02:54.47 | morrildl | Leeds: the system image it ships with includes Market and the Google apps like Maps, etc. |
| 02:54.53 | ttuttle | morrildl: Nice! |
| 02:54.57 | Leeds | damn! :-) |
| 02:55.06 | Leeds | now, who can I sell my G1 to so I can buy one of these... |
| 02:55.20 | JesusFreke | is thinking the same thing |
| 02:55.21 | Leeds | also, not available in HK apparently, but I'm sure I can work around that little bug |
| 02:55.22 | JesusFreke | lol |
| 02:55.35 | JesusFreke | probably won't though |
| 02:56.02 | ttuttle | Leeds: Er, you're not gonna be able to sell a (possibly locked, and used) G1 for more than the $399 an unlocked, developer-friendly ADP1 is going for. |
| 02:56.03 | eugene | Leeds: sell me real cheap :P |
| 02:56.11 | ttuttle | offers $20. |
| 02:56.17 | Leeds | eugene: you can get one directly - Singapore is on the list :-( |
| 02:56.30 | Leeds | ttuttle: I am if the person I'm selling to doesn't know :-P |
| 02:56.35 | ttuttle | Leeds: Don't be a jerk plz. |
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| 02:56.57 | Leeds | anyway, the street price of a G1 here is quite a lot more than US$399 |
| 02:56.58 | eugene | Leeds: ah, reading the page now |
| 02:57.12 | ttuttle | Leeds: *oh* |
| 02:57.30 | Leeds | I paid about US$570 for mine |
| 02:57.36 | ttuttle | Leeds: Ouch. |
| 02:57.36 | sparkle | eegh |
| 02:57.42 | eugene | looking for the currency convertor |
| 02:57.43 | JesusFreke | does the back actually have spiffy artwork? |
| 02:57.45 | JesusFreke | http://android.brightstarcorp.com/images/placeholders/dev3.jpg |
| 02:57.46 | ttuttle | paid $0 plus a few bugreports. |
| 02:57.57 | dsmcl | yes, it's a cool fractally pattern on the back cover |
| 02:58.02 | ttuttle | Oh damn, I'm nearly willing to pay $400 for that back cover. |
| 02:58.05 | JesusFreke | sweet :) |
| 02:58.16 | ttuttle | Yo, Googlers, can you get me one of those covers? :P |
| 02:58.19 | Leeds | eugene: fancy getting me one? ;-) |
| 02:58.22 | morrildl | That back cover |
| 02:58.29 | morrildl | Let me tell you about how much I covet that back cover |
| 02:58.30 | ttuttle | morrildl: It's awesome! |
| 02:58.34 | morrildl | I covet it SO HARD. |
| 02:58.38 | eugene | Leeds: let me check the shipping cost first :) |
| 02:58.39 | jbq | the back cover looks wickedly good. |
| 02:58.42 | Leeds | I think I would quite like that back cover |
| 02:58.44 | eugene | Leeds: so it's about $600 bugs here. |
| 02:58.47 | eugene | i mean bucks |
| 02:58.56 | ttuttle | jbq: Tell HTC all the existing back covers were stolen and we need new ones, and BTW it should be that design. |
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| 02:58.58 | Leeds | you mean SG$600? |
| 02:59.01 | eugene | Leeds: yes |
| 02:59.59 | ttuttle | AUGH |
| 03:00.05 | Leeds | "We regret to inform developers that SDK 1.0_r2 does not support MFM, RLL, or Winchester hard disk drives." |
| 03:00.09 | ttuttle | Google is using BrightStar to distribute the phones! |
| 03:00.09 | eugene | Leeds: eek Developer Registration Fee |
| 03:00.11 | Leeds | eugene: including shipping? |
| 03:00.36 | ttuttle | They were the same company OLPC used to distribute the Give One Get One laptops last year. |
| 03:00.40 | ttuttle | It took *months* for some to arrive! |
| 03:00.42 | eugene | Leeds: no. i'm trying to register via the android market site. i have to pay for my registration first.. |
| 03:00.43 | Leeds | oops |
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| 03:00.56 | ttuttle | hopes it goes better for Google. |
| 03:01.03 | JesusFreke | yeah, my olpc took forever too. heh |
| 03:01.13 | ttuttle | JesusFreke: Mine came a little after Christmas. |
| 03:01.19 | ttuttle | JesusFreke: It's got bad RAM now somehow :\ |
| 03:01.23 | JesusFreke | mine was sometime in January.. |
| 03:01.28 | morrildl | Leeds: yeah I was broken up about that |
| 03:01.30 | morrildl | I was like |
| 03:01.39 | morrildl | "How am I supposed to use this old Winchester here?" |
| 03:01.40 | eugene | Leeds: heh, pay USD$25 before checking out the shipping cost is not wise. |
| 03:01.53 | bgupta | SO are the the dev phones going to be functionally different than a modded G1? |
| 03:01.56 | Leeds | eugene: give me a minute, let me sign up |
| 03:02.10 | bgupta | Or is that unclear? |
| 03:02.16 | RyeBrye | wait, dev phones? |
| 03:02.19 | morrildl | bgupta: the bootloader on the devphones does not enforce signed images |
| 03:02.22 | bgupta | (BTW - I'm glad they are releasing them) |
| 03:02.22 | ttuttle | RyeBrye: Yeah. |
| 03:02.25 | JesusFreke | http://code.google.com/android/dev-devices.html |
| 03:02.35 | ttuttle | RyeBrye: $399, they're just G1s with a different (AWESOME!) back cover, and unlocked to the max. |
| 03:02.39 | morrildl | whines |
| 03:02.40 | khert | eugene, whats the url for the android market? |
| 03:02.43 | morrildl | Why is no one talking about hte SDK?! |
| 03:02.55 | sparkle | this is more fun. |
| 03:03.02 | morrildl | ;) |
| 03:03.11 | ttuttle | morrildl: What's been updates? |
| 03:03.12 | ttuttle | *updated |
| 03:03.15 | bgupta | morrildl: Isn't the new SDK a regression? |
| 03:03.15 | JesusFreke | SDK? pfft. we have a new dev phone to drool over :D |
| 03:03.25 | morrildl | ttuttle: couple future-proof bugfixes |
| 03:03.29 | bgupta | IE: THey removed functionality? |
| 03:03.40 | ttuttle | morrildl: Ah. |
| 03:03.41 | morrildl | bgupta: well, we made it compliant with the Java language spec |
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| 03:04.02 | morrildl | but technically yes we removed the ability to access private/protected methods via Reflection, which was a bug |
| 03:04.09 | RyeBrye | "Unlike the bootloader on retail devices, the bootloader on the Android Dev Phone 1 does not enforce signed system images" Bah. give us a week or two and we'll fix that |
| 03:04.20 | ttuttle | RyeBrye: Um... |
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| 03:04.27 | ttuttle | RyeBrye: You've had a bit of time already. |
| 03:04.37 | ttuttle | RyeBrye: But lemme know when it's done. |
| 03:04.38 | bgupta | hehe... well once one dev phone hits the street, I suspect all modded G1s will become devphones. |
| 03:05.03 | morrildl | bgupta: unlikely, without hooking up directly to the flash part |
| 03:05.13 | bgupta | oh... |
| 03:05.22 | ttuttle | should start a service flashing unlocked bootloaders on G1s for devs. |
| 03:05.30 | sparkle | chuckles |
| 03:05.34 | ttuttle | (I would, but I'm considering working for Google in the future.) |
| 03:05.49 | Leeds | also, incidentally, this is the first time I've used google checkout |
| 03:05.51 | morrildl | ttuttle: San will hunt you down and beat you if he thought you actually had what you would need to do that :) |
| 03:05.52 | eugene | khert: http://market.android.com/publish |
| 03:06.02 | ttuttle | morrildl: Um, I have an unlocked phone. |
| 03:06.11 | ttuttle | morrildl: I'd need to obtain some sort of JTAG or whatever-the-phone-uses interface. |
| 03:06.18 | RyeBrye | in 5 minutes flat I could get enough information from his phone to get what I needed to do that |
| 03:06.20 | ttuttle | morrildl: Once I had that, I could slurp my image and write it on others. |
| 03:06.21 | morrildl | yup |
| 03:06.27 | ttuttle | morrildl: But that's an NDA violation. |
| 03:06.27 | RyeBrye | I'm almost postive it wont require jtag |
| 03:06.30 | khert | eugene, cool, thnx |
| 03:06.31 | ttuttle | morrildl: And a jerk move. |
| 03:06.35 | ttuttle | morrildl: And slimy. |
| 03:06.41 | morrildl | I can't remember if JTag is enabled on the production devices |
| 03:06.42 | ttuttle | RyeBrye: How would you do it, without running code as root? |
| 03:06.48 | morrildl | but hypothetically that would work yeah |
| 03:06.48 | ttuttle | morrildl: Ooh, tricky ;) |
| 03:07.21 | *** join/#android __zippy (n=zart-tra@c-24-60-21-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) |
| 03:07.21 | morrildl | RyeBrye probably CAN run code as root, on a modified RC30 |
| 03:07.35 | bgupta | It's probably under that little sticker that says "VOID: |
| 03:07.37 | ttuttle | would flash his phone back to unmodded RC30, just to make it harder :P |
| 03:08.11 | RyeBrye | well... I'm not so sure that would really matter in your case - since I could just fastboot it and replace it with whatever I wanted |
| 03:08.15 | bgupta | Anyone taken a G1 apart yet? |
| 03:08.58 | RyeBrye | That's good news about the dev phones though - definitely a step in the right direction |
| 03:09.35 | unix_infidel | I bet that announcement pisses off a lot of developers...and makes a lot more happy. |
| 03:09.39 | bgupta | RyeBrye: Dev phones gives me hope. |
| 03:10.15 | Leeds | does that mean people will stop moaning that the G1 is locked down even though Android is meant to be open? |
| 03:10.18 | RyeBrye | Yeah, the dev phone will be cool. there are a few T-mobile G1's out there that have engineering bootloaders on them by accident |
| 03:10.19 | bgupta | morrildl: Many of us feel that we shouldn't have to go through contortions to instlall custom firmware... |
| 03:10.51 | bgupta | BUt we understand why carrier partners might get sniffy about it. |
| 03:11.04 | RyeBrye | The one guy who I know who has one has probably been snipered or something - because he's nowhere to be found now that we have a method to dump / reflash the bootloader easily |
| 03:11.32 | morrildl | bgupta: it doesn't really have much to do with carrier partners. It's just a security thing. We don't want evil people phishing users into putting a firmware image onto /sdcard and reflashing. |
| 03:11.33 | bgupta | I suspect dev phones are gonna be surprisingly popular in the dev community.... |
| 03:11.58 | morrildl | Granted that that's kind of an unlikely sequence of events.... |
| 03:13.02 | bgupta | morrildl... You could have a lock that you have to go through slight gyrations to get through.. IE: unlock the feature deep in settings.. |
| 03:13.23 | RyeBrye | I think that kind of thing would happen on the hacked iPhones first |
| 03:14.25 | RyeBrye | They need to have a dev phone subscription program :) for $X per year you get a new dev phone every time one comes out |
| 03:14.27 | bgupta | I just feel real bad for my Linux buddies who upgraded to rc30 without knowing the full deal. |
| 03:14.31 | RyeBrye | like jelly of the month club, only better :) |
| 03:14.40 | bgupta | lol... sign me up please. |
| 03:14.41 | Leeds | shipping cost to singapore for a devphone: $119.36 |
| 03:14.46 | bgupta | yikes |
| 03:14.49 | Leeds | that's quite a lot |
| 03:14.57 | Leeds | in fact, that's fscking ridiculous |
| 03:14.58 | Acidulous | is one of those who went to RC30 unknowingly |
| 03:15.20 | bgupta | sorry acidulous. :( |
| 03:15.33 | bgupta | I almost did.. but I came back from the brink just in time |
| 03:15.48 | RyeBrye | I'm sure eventually we'll have a way to re-root RC30's to another version... it's being looked into |
| 03:16.06 | Acidulous | I was stuck on RC19 so long, I was overexcited when I finally got an update, and it shot straight to RC30 before I had heard about it |
| 03:16.19 | morrildl | RyeBrye: if you find one, please just tell us first so we can fix it for end users before it gets into the wild :) |
| 03:16.34 | Leeds | making the cost for a devphone, shipped to Singapore: $399+$119+$25... not much different from the $560 or so I paid for mine |
| 03:16.39 | bgupta | yeah, well, it would seem likely there is an official way to do it... that is very obscured.. |
| 03:16.45 | *** join/#android Mony (n=sobieski@deimos.bg3.biz) |
| 03:16.48 | RyeBrye | If the Dev Phone comes with a spec sheet for the MSM7201A - I'd buy another |
| 03:17.02 | Leeds | RyeBrye: software dev, not hardware, I think |
| 03:17.07 | RyeBrye | Yeah, I know :) |
| 03:17.18 | RyeBrye | I have to have something to bitch about :) |
| 03:17.25 | bgupta | Anyone know the specs for the dev phone? IE: What 3G US freqs will it support T-Mobile or ATT? |
| 03:17.45 | *** join/#android vbabiy (n=vbabiy@pool-71-244-118-18.albyny.fios.verizon.net) |
| 03:17.47 | morrildl | bgupta: same as the G1. i.e. global (T-Mobile) 3G freqs |
| 03:18.03 | bgupta | Figured as much... |
| 03:18.04 | *** part/#android dsmcl (n=chatzill@72.14.229.81) |
| 03:18.16 | bgupta | WHat I want right now is a CDMA G1... |
| 03:18.23 | *** join/#android whaley_ (n=jwhaley@c-67-190-206-72.hsd1.fl.comcast.net) |
| 03:18.37 | morrildl | okay well |
| 03:18.42 | morrildl | now I get to go home |
| 03:18.52 | morrildl | "My work here is finished." |
| 03:18.54 | RyeBrye | Wait. I thought googlers lived at google? |
| 03:18.59 | morrildl | No, we only eat here |
| 03:19.06 | bgupta | (I have SPrint and T-Mobile accounts).. |
| 03:19.13 | morrildl | I'm told there actually is a policy that says you can't be on-site for more than like 48 hours at once |
| 03:19.14 | bgupta | LOL.. have a good one.. |
| 03:19.16 | morrildl | personally I have never tested it |
| 03:19.30 | bgupta | thanks for the updates. |
| 03:19.34 | RyeBrye | morrildl: It'd be pretty sweet if the policy said 48 hours in a single day - to prevent against time travel and such |
| 03:19.46 | morrildl | RyeBrye: hahahaha, that would indeed rock |
| 03:19.51 | morrildl | gotta boogie |
| 03:19.53 | *** part/#android morrildl (n=chatzill@72.14.229.81) |
| 03:19.54 | Leeds | morrildl: have a good weekend |
| 03:19.56 | Leeds | oops :-) |
| 03:20.07 | RyeBrye | How soon until dev phones ship? |
| 03:20.38 | bgupta | Hey RyeBrye: Aren't the MSM7201A specs relatively public? |
| 03:20.51 | *** join/#android offby1` (n=user@q-static-138-125.avvanta.com) |
| 03:21.11 | RyeBrye | bgupta: big block diagrams are - but nothing more than that |
| 03:21.24 | Leeds | anyone in the US want to start a side business shipping unlocked G1s for less than $stupid shipping cost? :-) |
| 03:21.33 | RyeBrye | I guess I want the data sheet too |
| 03:21.45 | RyeBrye | Leeds: I'd do it |
| 03:22.02 | Leeds | I'm sure you would... |
| 03:22.13 | RyeBrye | Leeds: Hmm... that does expose some kind of risk I suppose... so I'd have to have thugs in each country I shipped to to break kneecaps if I got stiffed somehow |
| 03:22.24 | Leeds | I can do thugging in HK! |
| 03:22.43 | bgupta | Business here in the states is a bit slow. I'm sure you could find half a dozen folks on this channel willing to start a side business. |
| 03:22.48 | *** join/#android dglazkov (n=dglazkov@c-24-130-144-56.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
| 03:23.04 | Disconnect | Leeds: start with thugging on some htc folks, get us the signing key. :) |
| 03:23.07 | *** join/#android _chris___ (n=chris@ppp118-208-172-41.lns10.mel4.internode.on.net) |
| 03:23.10 | *** join/#android cbeust (n=cbeust@24.32.28.203) |
| 03:23.10 | *** mode/#android [+o cbeust] by ChanServ |
| 03:23.11 | RyeBrye | You want an unlocked G1? I could order one for you and get it shipped to me and then re-ship it to you if you want. I'd just ask that you gave me a couple hours with it to dump the important stuff off of it before I re-shipped it |
| 03:23.15 | RyeBrye | I'd keep all the plastic on it and stuff |
| 03:23.15 | Leeds | they're over there in Taiwan |
| 03:23.30 | gfindster_dev1 | hi all |
| 03:23.31 | bgupta | oh they just launched the white G1... still like the plack one.. |
| 03:23.34 | Leeds | RyeBrye: I absolutely would if I didn't already have one... |
| 03:23.35 | JesusFreke | (don't listen to rye. he would steal the back cover :p) |
| 03:23.50 | RyeBrye | Nah, my back cover is already shiny with that skin cover on it |
| 03:23.52 | Leeds | JesusFreke: I'd sent *my* thugs to hunt him down |
| 03:24.07 | wastrel | shipping? |
| 03:24.17 | wastrel | i have 2 t-mobile stores within a block of my apartment |
| 03:24.20 | RyeBrye | I'd just ship via DHL international or something |
| 03:24.24 | gfindster_dev1 | any good development book available online |
| 03:24.26 | RyeBrye | wastrel: for the dev phone |
| 03:24.30 | Leeds | wastrel: but those of us outside the US don't |
| 03:24.42 | wastrel | oic |
| 03:25.56 | RyeBrye | But apparently you have to pay the $25 to register as a developer before you can even order the phone |
| 03:26.07 | RyeBrye | and they only let you order 1 per account now to limit that aftermarket bit |
| 03:26.19 | RyeBrye | so it's really $399 + 25 + shipping |
| 03:26.23 | Leeds | ah, that's bad |
| 03:26.52 | RyeBrye | That limit is likely just for the launch |
| 03:26.52 | bgupta | RyeBrye: It may be shiny, but does it have this: http://android.brightstarcorp.com/images/placeholders/dev3.jpg (You missed it earlier) |
| 03:27.06 | RyeBrye | No, it doesn't have random polygons on it :( |
| 03:27.17 | Acidulous | is gonna find someone to laser etch the dev cover design on his G1 |
| 03:27.27 | RyeBrye | "Hey, I think tron raped your phone." "No, I'm just a developer. I rape my own phone" |
| 03:27.37 | *** join/#android jpt9 (n=jpt9@teal-blue-90.dynamic2.rpi.edu) |
| 03:27.40 | Disconnect | this is me. :) this is me with random polygons. :( any questions? |
| 03:27.41 | Disconnect | heh |
| 03:27.50 | Acidulous | lol |
| 03:28.48 | RyeBrye | What is cool is that people who get shot down by T-mobile because of bad credit might be able to buy these from Google still |
| 03:28.53 | JesusFreke | disconnect must have had a traumatic experience with random polygons as a child. |
| 03:29.03 | RyeBrye | There was nothing random about them! |
| 03:29.21 | RyeBrye | Damn. I want that dev phone now. |
| 03:29.35 | RyeBrye | I also want to keep $399 in my own pocket. |
| 03:29.40 | Disconnect | this is me. :) this is me watching tron. 8-)~~ |
| 03:30.20 | RyeBrye | and this is Disconnect in his "watching tron outfit" http://www.pinkgodzillagames.com/events/tron%20guy-thumb.jpg |
| 03:30.48 | Acidulous | needs to learn not to oen random links |
| 03:30.49 | Disconnect | ...ooh, burned by a unicycle rider. i'm mortally wounded. |
| 03:30.54 | wastrel | i would spend that $399 on a macbook pro |
| 03:31.00 | unix_infidel | RyeBrye: you're taking about 2 grand out of your pocket to keep a device you dont want. |
| 03:31.16 | JesusFreke | you should be :D |
| 03:31.21 | RyeBrye | unix_infidel: what? |
| 03:31.25 | offby1` | I realize I'm a little late to the party, but: Shazam is amazing |
| 03:31.30 | wastrel | shazam what now? |
| 03:31.34 | Acidulous | offby1`: I agree |
| 03:31.55 | unix_infidel | RyeBrye: the G1. the cost of the G1 + contract is about 2 grand. |
| 03:32.00 | bgupta | Damn how annoying.. you can't buy a google devphone using Google checkout. |
| 03:32.14 | Disconnect | lol |
| 03:32.27 | RyeBrye | unix_infidel: marginal cost isn't that much - since I would be paying about the same regardless of the phone I had |
| 03:34.00 | offby1` | wastrel: app what listens to a song, and then identifies it. Amazingly accurately. |
| 03:34.09 | unix_infidel | heh, funny business telecom contracts are. |
| 03:34.13 | offby1` | reasonably widespread commercial recordings only, but still. |
| 03:34.16 | unix_infidel | RyeBrye: funnier is i just bought a G1 yesterday ;-) |
| 03:34.22 | Disconnect | unix_infidel: funny like the mob |
| 03:34.32 | unix_infidel | thinking about paying the 10 bucks to get rid of it ;-) |
| 03:34.33 | RyeBrye | unix_infidel: you can return yours though if you wanted to get this dev one |
| 03:34.57 | RyeBrye | unix_infidel: it has a $10 restocking fee? Most states have at least a 24 hour "I changed my mind" period on phone stuff |
| 03:35.00 | bgupta | Oh man.. gotta pay tax.. (I live in NY... not sure if it's because Brightstar or Google have office in NY). |
| 03:35.32 | RyeBrye | bgupta: did you have to pay the $25 to register as a dev to get to the page to buy it? |
| 03:35.45 | michaelnovakjr__ | what's special about the dev one? |
| 03:35.50 | RyeBrye | unlocked bootloader |
| 03:35.53 | bgupta | unix_infidel: You can always resell yours in the aftermarket... Yeah you have to pay the $25 |
| 03:36.02 | Leeds | unSIMlocked |
| 03:36.07 | bgupta | and sim unlock from the gitgo |
| 03:36.09 | RyeBrye | Oh, yeah, and sim unlocked |
| 03:36.11 | JesusFreke | sweet back cover.. :D |
| 03:36.20 | RyeBrye | Is the radio unlocked? :) |
| 03:36.26 | JesusFreke | who cares if it's unlocked with a backcover like that :p |
| 03:36.26 | michaelnovakjr__ | $400 is some serious dough |
| 03:36.39 | SanMehat | RyeBrye: yes the radio is unlocked |
| 03:36.45 | JesusFreke | michaelnovakjr: same as G1 with no contract |
| 03:36.49 | RyeBrye | SanMehat: as in security unlocked or just sim unlocked? |
| 03:36.50 | bgupta | Well, for an unlocked unsibsidized phone, it's not ridiculous. |
| 03:36.55 | SanMehat | RyeBrye: both |
| 03:36.56 | michaelnovakjr__ | JesusFreke: yea, i'll steal a backcover from someone :) |
| 03:36.56 | bgupta | both... |
| 03:36.59 | SanMehat | RyeBrye: you can reflash it |
| 03:37.07 | sparkle | JesusFreke: sounds like a come-on ;) |
| 03:37.16 | RyeBrye | SanMehat: you can reflash the radio with code not signed by HTC / Qualcomm? :D |
| 03:37.17 | Disconnect | SanMehat: is it basically just an unlocked g1? |
| 03:37.20 | michaelnovakjr__ | eh, i write applications, that's not totally necessary for me |
| 03:37.28 | Disconnect | (form factor, etc) |
| 03:37.29 | SanMehat | RyeBrye: oh i dont know about the radio side |
| 03:37.32 | RyeBrye | SanMehat: because I seem to remember even ttuttle's magic phone wasn't security unlocked |
| 03:37.41 | RyeBrye | (the radio side of it) |
| 03:37.43 | bgupta | Radio is the same |
| 03:37.44 | SanMehat | RyeBrye: why would you want to? |
| 03:37.52 | JesusFreke | sparkle: if I saw a girl with a dev phone, I would certainly use that as a pickup line :D |
| 03:37.59 | *** join/#android vininim (n=vininim@pdpc/supporter/student/vininim) |
| 03:38.00 | bgupta | T-Mobile global freqs |
| 03:38.08 | SanMehat | RyeBrye: actually nevermind, i don't really want to know :) |
| 03:38.14 | SanMehat | RyeBrye: they're sim and flash unlocked |
| 03:38.14 | RyeBrye | SanMehat: I honestly have no clue :) |
| 03:38.16 | michaelnovakjr__ | haha |
| 03:38.41 | RyeBrye | SanMehat: but with an unlocked radio, you could probably do some funky stuff like GSM sniffing |
| 03:38.43 | bgupta | I wonder what's the holdup on CDMA android devices |
| 03:39.13 | Leeds | global demand? |
| 03:39.41 | JesusFreke | every time I see "CDMA", I think of the kodoma from Princess Mononoke. |
| 03:39.46 | bgupta | Well the have the GSM device out.. and SPrint was supposed to be a partner |
| 03:40.03 | sparkle | JesusFreke: sounds like a come-on ;) |
| 03:40.09 | SanMehat | RyeBrye: like i said.. i dont want to know :) |
| 03:40.09 | bgupta | I whine because T-Mob has horrible coverage in my area |
| 03:40.10 | sparkle | erk |
| 03:40.15 | sparkle | lol |
| 03:40.35 | bgupta | and sprint is the only other carrier that has affordable data plans |
| 03:40.47 | RyeBrye | bgupta: $4 t-zones is pretty damn affordable |
| 03:40.50 | JesusFreke | sparkle: was that just a come-on to my come-on? :D |
| 03:40.59 | Leeds | bgupta: G1/HTC partner or Android partner? |
| 03:41.00 | Fnordg1 | bgupta: put up your own tower |
| 03:41.18 | *** join/#android o3u (n=slim@modemcable123.240-56-74.mc.videotron.ca) |
| 03:41.28 | SanMehat | i take it there was an announcement about the dev phones? |
| 03:41.32 | bgupta | yes. |
| 03:41.38 | JesusFreke | http://code.google.com/android/dev-devices.html |
| 03:41.45 | SanMehat | ah cool |
| 03:42.00 | Fnordg1 | the dev hones? what is this? |
| 03:42.08 | RyeBrye | SanMehat: No, but you just made one! ;) |
| 03:42.08 | Leeds | SanMehat: nah, we're just guessing all of a sudden :-P |
| 03:42.08 | JesusFreke | http://code.google.com/android/dev-devices.html |
| 03:42.10 | JesusFreke | lol :p |
| 03:42.24 | JesusFreke | how many times do I have to post the darn link? :p |
| 03:42.24 | SanMehat | hahaha |
| 03:42.27 | RyeBrye | http://code.google.com/android/dev-devices.html |
| 03:42.30 | RyeBrye | http://code.google.com/android/dev-devices.html |
| 03:42.37 | SanMehat | yeah they look slick |
| 03:42.39 | Leeds | http://code.google.com/android/dev-devices.html ? |
| 03:42.42 | RyeBrye | infobot dev phones are phones that have magical powers |
| 03:42.42 | infobot | RyeBrye: okay |
| 03:42.43 | Fnordg1 | cut paste in connectbox is a pain! |
| 03:42.48 | bgupta | Basically a G1 with custom branding that can load unsigned custom firmware, and are sim unlicked. |
| 03:42.53 | JesusFreke | infobot what are dev phones? |
| 03:42.54 | infobot | JesusFreke: what are you talking about? |
| 03:43.00 | RyeBrye | infobot dev phones are also discussed here: http://code.google.com/android/dev-devices.html |
| 03:43.00 | infobot | okay, RyeBrye |
| 03:43.04 | bgupta | Fnordg1L At least it exists? |
| 03:43.08 | RyeBrye | infobot what are dev phones? |
| 03:43.09 | infobot | RyeBrye: what are you talking about? |
| 03:43.09 | Fnordg1 | bgupta: really? |
| 03:43.12 | Fnordg1 | so |
| 03:43.15 | RyeBrye | infobot what is a dev phone |
| 03:43.15 | infobot | RyeBrye: what are you talking about? |
| 03:43.26 | RyeBrye | infobot you don't handle whitespace very well, do you? |
| 03:43.27 | Fnordg1 | official rootphones? |
| 03:43.39 | Leeds | Fnordg1: yes |
| 03:43.40 | bgupta | official rootphones... yeah.. |
| 03:43.41 | JesusFreke | yup |
| 03:43.55 | Fnordg1 | official rootphones? <-- omg wut? :-O |
| 03:44.03 | JesusFreke | http://code.google.com/android/dev-devices.html |
| 03:44.03 | JesusFreke | :p |
| 03:44.05 | RyeBrye | maybe you should check out this link: http://code.google.com/android/dev-devices.html |
| 03:44.09 | JesusFreke | ha, beat ya :p |
| 03:44.12 | Fnordg1 | official rootphones? <-- omg wut? :-O! |
| 03:44.16 | JesusFreke | http://code.google.com/android/dev-devices.html |
| 03:44.18 | bgupta | Yes, they really needed them if they expected people to actually work on the OS.. |
| 03:44.24 | Fnordg1 | official rootphones? <-- omg wut? :-O!? |
| 03:44.24 | unix_infidel | Leeds: what's funny is you could've gotten an iPhone 3G for less than your G1 in HK but you went with the G1. |
| 03:44.26 | JesusFreke | http://code.google.com/android/dev-devices.html |
| 03:44.28 | unix_infidel | ;-) |
| 03:44.30 | Fnordg1 | :p |
| 03:44.31 | JesusFreke | :p |
| 03:44.38 | bgupta | THe supply of rc29s was limited to say the least |
| 03:44.43 | *** mode/#android [+o SanMehat] by ChanServ |
| 03:44.53 | Leeds | unix_infidel: no I couldn't - the Apple price for a iphone 3G is about $5600 |
| 03:44.55 | RyeBrye | infobot devphones have magical powers and will make all your wildest dreams come true. You can read about them here: http://code.google.com/android/dev-devices.html - in order to buy one, you have to pay a $25 to be in the "developer club" and then you can get into the back room where they keep them behind a curain of lava |
| 03:45.14 | unix_infidel | Leeds: 560? |
| 03:45.16 | Leeds | RyeBrye: "is" not "have" |
| 03:45.21 | Leeds | unix_infidel: HK$5600 |
| 03:45.24 | bgupta | Well the $25 isn't completely wasted if you plan to sell apps in the market |
| 03:45.33 | Leeds | or possibly "are" |
| 03:45.37 | unix_infidel | so yea, about the same as what you paid for the G1. |
| 03:45.49 | RyeBrye | infobot devphones is a phone with magical powers and will make all your wildest dreams come true. You can read about them here: http://code.google.com/android/dev-devices.html - in order to buy one, you have to pay a $25 to be in the "developer club" and then you can get into the back room where they keep them behind a curtain of lava. |
| 03:45.49 | infobot | RyeBrye: okay |
| 03:46.01 | RyeBrye | Yeah, I know - I will pay it eventually |
| 03:46.03 | Fnordg1 | ok so recovery:sbin/recovery makes no keychecks basically? |
| 03:46.04 | Leeds | no, I paid about $4400 - before trade-in, which I couldn't have done with an iphone - as opposed to $5600... quite a difference |
| 03:46.08 | RyeBrye | I just have no apps now to put in the market |
| 03:46.12 | Leeds | Fnordg1: yes |
| 03:46.24 | Fnordg1 | is nice! |
| 03:46.30 | bgupta | Fnordg1: According to a Google dev on earlier, yeah. |
| 03:46.37 | RyeBrye | infobot tell RyeBrye about devphones |
| 03:46.40 | unix_infidel | i dunno, i have a little under 2 weeks to figure out if i want to keep the G1 ;-) |
| 03:46.51 | unix_infidel | honestly, being able to tether the thing is worth more than the iPhone already. |
| 03:46.58 | bgupta | unix_infidel: How much did you pay for it? |
| 03:47.42 | unix_infidel | bgupta: it was a gift. |
| 03:47.42 | unix_infidel | probably retail, but they might've had a gift card they needed to get rid of, dunno. |
| 03:47.43 | *** join/#android SystemWizard (i=codethou@c-76-121-27-69.hsd1.wa.comcast.net) |
| 03:47.43 | bgupta | Ok, if you *were* to return it, how much would you get? |
| 03:47.44 | unix_infidel | bgupta: -10 bucks. |
| 03:47.50 | unix_infidel | no big deal. |
| 03:48.04 | RyeBrye | and no cash? Hmm... I'd think that paying money to get them to take it away versus keeping it is a pretty easy choice |
| 03:48.19 | *** join/#android andyross (n=andy@static-71-245-107-194.ptldor.fios.verizon.net) |
| 03:48.31 | bgupta | So why not wait 90 days, unlock it, and then sell it on the aftermarket? |
| 03:48.34 | unix_infidel | RyeBrye: yea, when the alternative is a windows mobile device or an iphone i'd only get marginal utility out of... |
| 03:48.46 | *** part/#android Dougie187 (n=doug@68.35.245.156) |
| 03:49.25 | Leeds | infobot: devphones are also very expensive to ship outside the US |
| 03:49.25 | infobot | Leeds: okay |
| 03:49.25 | RyeBrye | I wonder how much I could turn around and sell a dev phone on eBay for if I offered international shipping |
| 03:49.45 | Disconnect | $699 in fake money orders |
| 03:49.50 | RyeBrye | :) |
| 03:50.04 | RyeBrye | and a lot of mangled-english emails |
| 03:50.09 | Leeds | RyeBrye: $1000 |
| 03:50.22 | unix_infidel | RyeBrye: if you were the first, probably a pretty penny, but margins will get smaller every hour that goes by. |
| 03:50.35 | Fnordg1 | cannot load page. is devvphone htc dream? |
| 03:50.42 | JesusFreke | fnord, yep |
| 03:50.46 | bgupta | it's a g1 |
| 03:50.53 | JesusFreke | it's not t-mobile branded |
| 03:50.57 | Leeds | it's a Dream |
| 03:50.59 | JesusFreke | so it's not a G1 |
| 03:51.04 | Fnordg1 | for 1k o.o lol |
| 03:51.06 | bgupta | correct... but it's basically the same hardware. |
| 03:51.12 | JesusFreke | right. |
| 03:51.14 | Leeds | fnord: HK$1000 |
| 03:51.21 | bgupta | I'd better even off the saem assembly line |
| 03:51.41 | swetland | I believe the plastics/etc are a bit different too, but haven't seen final pictures |
| 03:51.42 | Fnordg1 | i will stick to haxorg1 |
| 03:51.54 | bgupta | haxorg1? |
| 03:51.59 | Leeds | I will stick to the G1 I already paid too much for :-P |
| 03:52.17 | bgupta | oh |
| 03:52.20 | bgupta | haxor g1 |
| 03:52.20 | Fnordg1 | hacked g1 =p |
| 03:52.23 | RyeBrye | infobot: devphones is also sporting a back with a design that looks ripped from a 2004 snowboarding catalog: http://tinyurl.com/54sxg2 |
| 03:52.23 | infobot | that's too long, RyeBrye |
| 03:52.30 | RyeBrye | :( |
| 03:52.36 | *** join/#android whaley- (n=jwhaley@c-67-190-206-72.hsd1.fl.comcast.net) |
| 03:52.45 | Leeds | I guess your original stuff was close to the limit |
| 03:52.45 | unix_infidel | lol. |
| 03:52.46 | RyeBrye | infobot devphones is also sporting this: http://tinyurl.com/54sxg2 |
| 03:52.46 | infobot | RyeBrye: okay |
| 03:52.55 | Leeds | infobot: devphones |
| 03:52.55 | infobot | somebody said devphones was a phone with magical powers and will make all your wildest dreams come true. You can read about them here: http://code.google.com/android/dev-devices.html - in order to buy one, you have to pay a $25 to be in the "developer club" and then you can get into the back room where they keep them behind a curtain of lava. very expensive to ship outside the US, or sporting this: http://tinyurl.com/54sxg2 |
| 03:52.58 | swetland | oh nice. they did go with the nifty back |
| 03:53.24 | JesusFreke | very nifty :) |
| 03:53.31 | bgupta | ANyone know if people have come out with double size batteries with new backs? |
| 03:53.48 | michaelnovakjr__ | i just want that back cover |
| 03:54.02 | RyeBrye | swetland: do they use an HTC unlocked bootloader similar to the engineering devices, or are they using a custom google one? |
| 03:54.27 | RyeBrye | I presume the radio can't be flashed with unsigned code, since the FCC would probably have a thing or two to say about that? |
| 03:54.56 | Fnordg1 | bgupta: there is 2200 mah batt but not avail yet |
| 03:55.21 | joeyoh | mmmm curtain of lava |
| 03:55.31 | bgupta | Fnordg1: Is that gonna fit in existing battery compartment, or will it require a custom back? |
| 03:55.44 | swetland | rye: it's a stock engineering bootloader |
| 03:55.50 | *** join/#android Rimdar_Klall (n=Dan@ip24-250-248-177.ga.at.cox.net) |
| 03:55.51 | romainguy_ | ah good |
| 03:55.55 | RyeBrye | 0.95.300 ? |
| 03:55.55 | romainguy_ | we announced teh dev phones |
| 03:55.57 | swetland | I think they might have put a robot graphic on it |
| 03:55.59 | romainguy_ | hope you guys are happy now :)) |
| 03:56.14 | *** join/#android jbq (n=jbq@72.14.224.1) |
| 03:56.17 | Rimdar_Klall | Hello all! I have a question. I just got the G1 and unlocked it and have a 3G SIM card and AT&T. Will I be able to use 3G? |
| 03:56.18 | RyeBrye | I'm closer to happy :) |
| 03:56.20 | swetland | it's going to be a slightly different version, but it's pretty much the same stuff we use on engineering devices |
| 03:56.20 | Leeds | romainguy_: do they come with ponies |
| 03:56.22 | Leeds | Rimdar_Klall: nope |
| 03:56.23 | romainguy_ | Rimdar_Klall: no |
| 03:56.27 | swetland | ponies cost extra |
| 03:56.42 | swetland | we think providing android compatible ponies is an excellent third party opportunity |
| 03:56.49 | Fnordg1 | romainguy_: where can i sarifice firstorn child? |
| 03:57.00 | RyeBrye | Good luck finding a data sheet for a pony. The pinout is nuts |
| 03:57.00 | jbq | gah, stupid mac went low on battery, hibernated, and didn't come back to life for a while :( |
| 03:57.06 | swetland | http://code.google.com/android/dev-devices.html |
| 03:57.10 | Fnordg1 | born even |
| 03:57.27 | Leeds | romainguy_: only comment would be... international shipping is a killer on them - and HK isn't on the list of destinations :-P |
| 03:57.40 | romainguy_ | I knew you would be complaining! |
| 03:57.40 | romainguy_ | :)) |
| 03:57.54 | swetland | fnord: I believe they are only accepting cash/credit transactions. no barter |
| 03:57.54 | Leeds | $120 for shipping? |
| 03:58.01 | joeo | can you get a p.o. box in the PRC? |
| 03:58.03 | Fnordg1 | lol |
| 03:58.06 | RyeBrye | Well... maybe now there will be more people wondering where the hell the MSM7201A is documented :) |
| 03:58.08 | swetland | leeds: what?! o.o |
| 03:58.12 | Leeds | swetland: to Singapore |
| 03:58.16 | swetland | good lord |
| 03:58.17 | eugene | lol |
| 03:58.27 | eugene | swetland: good thing there is a way to avoid that fee :) |
| 03:58.30 | Leeds | joeo: I'm not in the PRC, I'm in HKSAR |
| 03:58.30 | michaelnovakjr__ | i just want one of those cool back covers :) |
| 03:58.37 | bgupta | RyeBrye, is the graphics driver opensource? |
| 03:58.39 | eugene | Leeds: still part of PRC :) |
| 03:58.46 | joeo | yeah, but PRC is just across the line |
| 03:58.48 | Leeds | eugene: ssssh, don't tell them! |
| 03:58.51 | bgupta | THat's based on an ATI core, no? |
| 03:58.54 | joeo | at least you don't have to take a plane :-D |
| 03:59.07 | Leeds | joeo: and I go monthly for shopping and massage - just a 45 minute train trip |
| 03:59.11 | *** part/#android Rimdar_Klall (n=Dan@ip24-250-248-177.ga.at.cox.net) |
| 03:59.57 | Fnordg1 | heh an hk corp wants to hire me |
| 04:00.16 | Leeds | remotely, or to relocate? |
| 04:00.16 | bgupta | BTW - FOr any Googlers soliciting feedback.. send thanks to whomever helped make the dev phones happen... |
| 04:00.30 | Fnordg1 | 75/25 |
| 04:00.33 | JesusFreke | agrees with bgupta |
| 04:00.37 | RyeBrye | Yeah, thanks. |
| 04:00.38 | eugene | Leeds: how's a hk corp culture like? |
| 04:00.42 | Leeds | seconded |
| 04:00.43 | RyeBrye | Now what about a trade-in program ;) |
| 04:00.49 | Leeds | eugene: local corp culture is terrible |
| 04:00.58 | Fnordg1 | paid travel expenses |
| 04:01.21 | Fnordg1 | lee howso, |
| 04:01.27 | JesusFreke | arg. after using the G1 a lot, when I get on my olpc now, my first instinct is to touch the screen |
| 04:01.28 | Leeds | long hours, very hierarchical/authoritarian, lots of politics, etc. |
| 04:01.37 | Leeds | JesusFreke: ditto with my EeePC |
| 04:01.52 | bgupta | G1's still go for a good amount on Ebay... you might almost be able to do it as an even swap... Pretty sure that until rc30 is cracked, modded G1s will retain value. (Kinda like WRT 54g v2s) |
| 04:01.58 | Fnordg1 | Leeds: its run by a german expat |
| 04:02.10 | Leeds | Fnordg1: wonder if I know him/them |
| 04:02.25 | Fnordg1 | Leeds: kimble? |
| 04:02.28 | unix_infidel | wow, even after calibrating the battery, i'm still loosing about 10 percent per hour barely even using the thing. |
| 04:02.34 | Leeds | doesn't ring a bell |
| 04:02.46 | Fnordg1 | megaupload |
| 04:02.58 | unix_infidel | literally, using maps and checking twitter, like...twice. |
| 04:02.59 | bgupta | Fnordg1: Any links for 220maH battery? or timelines? |
| 04:03.05 | Leeds | nope |
| 04:03.32 | bgupta | I want a device that can do a solid 8 hours of wifi sshing |
| 04:03.47 | bgupta | (Or cellular...) |
| 04:03.51 | RyeBrye | can a laptop even do that? |
| 04:04.11 | bgupta | Well you see.. cellphones are supposed to have better battery lives than laptops |
| 04:04.23 | Leeds | some low-powered ones with extended batteries can, in theory |
| 04:04.39 | bgupta | But yes, there are certain EXPENSIVE sony vaio subnotebooks that claim to do 8 hours |
| 04:04.49 | _chris___ | my compaq laptop with 2 batteries lasted 7 hours |
| 04:04.50 | vininim | bgupta: cellphones weren't supposed to have wifi a while back |
| 04:05.31 | bgupta | Yeah.. my old Treo with the 3300maH Battery lasted 9 hours with all the radios on.. (No wifi though) |
| 04:05.55 | romainguy_ | ooh |
| 04:05.56 | romainguy_ | new SDK too |
| 04:06.12 | *** join/#android gfindster_dev1 (n=indiabol@59.93.75.69) |
| 04:06.27 | *** join/#android p_quarles (i=lee@unaffiliated/pquarles) |
| 04:06.42 | JesusFreke | wow. my olpc keyboard feels quite spacious now too, after using the G1. lol |
| 04:07.10 | sparkle | hah |
| 04:07.18 | sparkle | jf. which one |
| 04:07.34 | JesusFreke | got it during the first give-one get-one |
| 04:07.52 | sparkle | for xmas i want something i can fit into my purse w/a usable kb |
| 04:07.54 | bgupta | I want a Foleo style device that runs android and has infinite battery life. mmm. you know, someone needs to get hopping with a BT keyboard driver.. |
| 04:08.32 | bgupta | I'm pretty sure there are linux drivers |
| 04:08.35 | JesusFreke | I don't think an olpc is purseable. :) I dunno.. maybe if you have a big purse |
| 04:08.37 | bgupta | for BT keyboards |
| 04:09.00 | Fnordg1 | bgupta: there is a site offering 2k mah on preorder |
| 04:09.15 | bgupta | fnordg1: Link please? |
| 04:09.19 | sparkle | just something the size of a hardback |
| 04:10.29 | Fnordg1 | bgupta: google.com, i dont have it with me. "extended life" g1 may work |
| 04:11.00 | vininim | uh.. how does I disable suspend? |
| 04:11.26 | bgupta | fnordg1: I found the 1600maH one... still looking |
| 04:11.49 | Fnordg1 | btw all g1 questions can be answered at http://fnord.to/g |
| 04:12.00 | *** join/#android morrildl (n=chatzill@76-217-210-185.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net) |
| 04:12.00 | *** mode/#android [+o morrildl] by ChanServ |
| 04:12.00 | vininim | (on freerunner =P) |
| 04:12.03 | bgupta | http://www.easydevices.co.uk/pp/T-Mobile_Accessories/T-Mobile_G1/T-MOBILE_G1_EXTENDED_LIFE_BATTERY.html UK site |
| 04:12.11 | vininim | I guess screen timeout does it |
| 04:12.15 | bgupta | lol |
| 04:12.31 | bgupta | RTFG?? |
| 04:12.35 | JesusFreke | lol fnord :) |
| 04:13.01 | JesusFreke | no, it's STFG (s=search) |
| 04:13.06 | Fnordg1 | pretty much |
| 04:13.08 | brocktice | FGI |
| 04:13.30 | *** join/#android gfindster_dev1 (n=indiabol@59.93.75.69) |
| 04:13.37 | JesusFreke | FGI works. hehe |
| 04:13.41 | Fnordg1 | google, HTH, HAND |
| 04:13.55 | brocktice | http://justfuckinggoogleit.com/ |
| 04:14.06 | offby1 | Let Me Google That For You™ |
| 04:14.17 | Fnordg1 | letmegooglethatforyou.com |
| 04:14.23 | morrildl | likes STFG |
| 04:14.54 | *** join/#android plusminus_ (i=4421a620@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-fb6a95e907b4e241) |
| 04:15.01 | brocktice | Oh that's good(LMGTFY) |
| 04:15.20 | brocktice | I just thought, "So what, it's a simpler google front page." |
| 04:15.25 | brocktice | Until I tried it. |
| 04:15.34 | Fnordg1 | :p |
| 04:15.41 | bgupta | OK so far I can only find it for preorder form the UK.. |
| 04:15.50 | JesusFreke | rofl |
| 04:16.03 | JesusFreke | (@ letmegooglethatforyou.com) |
| 04:16.12 | _avatar | dunno if this interests anyone here, but i put together a little website for my new android app: http://autom8.clangen.org/ |
| 04:16.14 | Fnordg1 | hmmm does it mention new cover? |
| 04:16.16 | *** join/#android muthu_ (n=mobeegal@218.248.24.81) |
| 04:16.53 | brocktice | _avatar, cool, I still have some old X10 modules. |
| 04:16.59 | bgupta | X10 is still in business?? |
| 04:17.07 | *** join/#android gfindster_dev1 (n=indiabol@59.96.96.165) |
| 04:17.12 | Fnordg1 | lol x10 |
| 04:17.13 | bgupta | Wow. |
| 04:17.21 | brocktice | Unfortunately I don't have Windows running on my server. |
| 04:17.32 | _avatar | yup, they're still around, and their website is as horrible as ever |
| 04:17.37 | brocktice | X10 did not just make stupid cameras with annoying advertisements. |
| 04:17.38 | Fnordg1 | ruined by marketing dept |
| 04:17.50 | brocktice | Long before that you could get the modules and controllers at radio shack. |
| 04:17.59 | brocktice | I use them to turn on my rope lights in the living room. :) |
| 04:18.03 | *** join/#android pquarles (i=lee@unaffiliated/pquarles) |
| 04:18.04 | bgupta | OMFG... I just checked out their website... It's worse than godaddy |
| 04:18.06 | Fnordg1 | good product tho |
| 04:18.13 | Fnordg1 | lol |
| 04:18.25 | Fnordg1 | same marketing? |
| 04:18.37 | brocktice | Don't know, I never actually saw ads for the modules. |
| 04:18.46 | bgupta | I remember they used to advertise in Computte's Gazette and Byte back in the 80s |
| 04:18.59 | Fnordg1 | spyonsupermodelnextdoor ads |
| 04:19.12 | brocktice | Ah, well... only started reading in around 1985 or 6 |
| 04:19.51 | *** join/#android mibFindster (i=3b6060a5@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-966ab0e31de8c4dc) |
| 04:20.08 | Fnordg1 | basically tried to look as scuzzy as possible |
| 04:20.31 | Fnordg1 | Leeds: what time is it there? |
| 04:22.56 | Fnordg1 | hmm actually i think someone made a multitimezone clock |
| 04:23.40 | *** join/#android wYi (n=wangyi94@61.145.157.231) |
| 04:24.41 | JesusFreke | yeah, there is. I can't think of what it's called though |
| 04:24.45 | JesusFreke | wait |
| 04:24.46 | JesusFreke | twilight |
| 04:25.36 | RyeBrye | _avatar: that app is cool |
| 04:25.41 | morrildl | _avatar: oh dude |
| 04:25.52 | _avatar | RyeBrye: thanks :) |
| 04:26.17 | morrildl | _avatar: I totally added some Insteon devices to my xmas wish list so I can do something simlar |
| 04:26.18 | bgupta | Fnordg1: Seems the only sites that are taking preorders for the 2200maH battery are UK based.. Or my Google is broken. ;) |
| 04:26.28 | morrildl | still has a CM11A around somewhere though. |
| 04:26.39 | morrildl | _avatar: what is the CM15A? |
| 04:26.42 | RyeBrye | the CM11A is the serial one, right? I think I have that one |
| 04:26.48 | RyeBrye | X10 stuff is great for christmas lights |
| 04:26.57 | morrildl | RyeBrye: yeah |
| 04:27.06 | morrildl | ha, christmas lights, yup |
| 04:27.12 | morrildl | I still have the cron jobs running |
| 04:27.21 | morrildl | I actually wrote a POP-style semi-English protocol server |
| 04:27.21 | _avatar | morrildl: the CM15A is X10's entry level USB controller |
| 04:27.30 | morrildl | You connect and tell it things like "TURN ON HOUSE A UNIT 4" |
| 04:28.11 | RyeBrye | _avatar: have you seen the heyu stuff? |
| 04:28.23 | _avatar | i've been thinking about doing a CM11A implementation as well, I just need to get my hands on a controller |
| 04:28.27 | _avatar | RyeBrye: nope, what's that? |
| 04:28.42 | morrildl | _avatar: harder than that can be finding the docs for it :P |
| 04:29.10 | _avatar | morrildl: ftp://ftp.x10.com/pub/manuals/cm11a_protocol.txt ;) |
| 04:29.26 | RyeBrye | _avatar: looking for info... heyu was a linux interface for X10 stuff |
| 04:29.41 | RyeBrye | I think someone wrote proper /dev drivers for x10 stuff though so it was even easier to interface with it from linux |
| 04:29.42 | _avatar | oh, nice |
| 04:30.20 | jbq | We use x10 for android development.... we have a lamp that turns on when the build is broken, and it's controlled by x10. |
| 04:30.24 | *** join/#android invain (n=guest@121.167.34.130) |
| 04:30.48 | RyeBrye | http://wish.sourceforge.net/index2.html |
| 04:31.36 | bgupta | morrildl: Was curious is there a place I can find out if someone is working on a driver? (Like an RFE board or something?) Basically I am toying with the idea of trying to get BT keyboard drivers going... (It's a reach but it should be fun).. |
| 04:31.37 | _avatar | RyeBrye: oh wow, awesome. |
| 04:31.48 | _avatar | thanks :D |
| 04:32.25 | *** join/#android Randalthor (n=Randalth@10.sub-70-195-124.myvzw.com) |
| 04:32.28 | bgupta | (Not really big on the idea of duplicated effort though) |
| 04:33.25 | *** join/#android Neverender (n=nick@c-98-234-191-59.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
| 04:33.26 | RyeBrye | jbq - you should look into the X10 alarm sirens :) http://www.safemart.com/Receivers/X-10-Wireless-Plug-In-Siren-X10-PSH02.htm?CAWELAID=209457439 Much more noticeable :) |
| 04:33.36 | bgupta | Anyone played with system/bluetooth yet? |
| 04:34.09 | jbq | RyeBrye: I'm right next to the lamp, so it's noticable enough for me... but we could look into hooking it up to a large gong (I'm sure that swetland will know what I mean) |
| 04:34.29 | sparkle | lol |
| 04:34.59 | RyeBrye | but that would be positive reinforcement though... you could have it just do it for when checkins greater than X lines of code produce a successful build |
| 04:35.05 | *** join/#android o3u (n=slim@modemcable123.240-56-74.mc.videotron.ca) |
| 04:35.58 | RyeBrye | If my entire team didn't work remotely, I'd totally do that light thing |
| 04:36.08 | Fnordg1 | anyone decoded market's protool yet? |
| 04:36.11 | RyeBrye | In order to make something that my whole team would notice, we'd probably have to have a 0.5 megaton bomb or something |
| 04:36.37 | invain | we'd probably have to have a 0.5 megaton bomb or something --> what do it means? |
| 04:36.53 | RyeBrye | oh, a "build-is-broken" indicator |
| 04:37.02 | sparkle | whenever someone here broke production |
| 04:37.07 | Fnordg1 | it means bom. big boom |
| 04:37.13 | sparkle | there was this giant honking rubber chicken |
| 04:37.28 | sparkle | broken builds are a daily thing :p |
| 04:37.38 | jbq | if we blew up a 500kT nuke each time the android build broke, we'd have a nuclear winter in less than a month... |
| 04:40.21 | bgupta | So I read somewhere the G1 touchscreen hardware (but not software) is multitouch capable.. |
| 04:40.52 | morrildl | _avatar: oh wow. Well it was harder than that when I last went looking :) |
| 04:40.57 | bgupta | Is there anything legally preventing Android from supporting? I know Apple has a bunch of patents.. |
| 04:41.17 | morrildl | bgupta: I'm not currently aware of anything like a driver list |
| 04:41.34 | bgupta | gonna dig through source.. and see... |
| 04:42.05 | Fnordg1 | synapics driver in kernel |
| 04:42.18 | _chris___ | is there going to be a software keyboard? |
| 04:42.31 | _avatar | morrildl: it actually took me forever to dig that cm11a doc up, i eventually found the link in some obscure forum post from ~8 years ago |
| 04:42.39 | bgupta | I know the answer to that one.. yes to software keyboard |
| 04:42.51 | _avatar | needless to say i bookmarked it immediately :P |
| 04:44.03 | Acidulous | lol any sort of timeline on the software keyboard? |
| 04:44.37 | bgupta | No idea.. but it is supposedly a planned feature... |
| 04:44.43 | bgupta | soon? |
| 04:44.44 | bgupta | :) |
| 04:44.48 | Acidulous | lol |
| 04:45.14 | RyeBrye | infobot: IMF |
| 04:45.14 | infobot | hmm... imf is the International Monetary Fund, otherwise known as "International Monetary Foulplay" |
| 04:45.57 | bgupta | Hey does anyone know if repo works on Mac OS X? |
| 04:46.01 | *** join/#android winfield1 (n=winfield@125.122.97.35) |
| 04:46.28 | bgupta | mm. just gonna try |
| 04:47.10 | *** join/#android gfindster_dev1 (n=indiabol@59.93.64.131) |
| 04:47.10 | RyeBrye | infobot: no, IMF is a feature that "...will enable support for input methods other than physical keyboards, for example soft keyboards. IMF will also enable application developers to provide IME (see below) applications based on the framework." - read about it here: http://source.android.com/roadmap |
| 04:47.10 | infobot | RyeBrye: okay |
| 04:47.13 | RyeBrye | infobot IMF |
| 04:47.13 | infobot | imf is, like, a feature that "...will enable support for input methods other than physical keyboards, for example soft keyboards. IMF will also enable application developers to provide IME (see below) applications based on the framework." - read about it here: http://source.android.com/roadmap |
| 04:47.31 | RyeBrye | infobot tell Acidulous about IMF |
| 04:48.00 | Acidulous | hahaha that's awesome |
| 04:48.55 | jbq | bgupta: yes, repo works on MacOSX. |
| 04:49.22 | *** join/#android gfindster_dev1 (n=indiabol@59.93.64.131) |
| 04:49.35 | jbq | I use it with 10.4, other people use it with 10.5. I think it works with Python 2.4 and 2.5. |
| 04:49.54 | *** join/#android Neverender1 (n=nick@c-98-234-191-59.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
| 04:50.12 | romainguy_ | for all questions related to Mac OS X: a large part of the Android team worked/works on Mac OS X 10.4/10.5 |
| 04:50.14 | bgupta | danke |
| 04:50.26 | jbq | (you need an x86 machine to *build* android, though). |
| 04:50.31 | _chris___ | great cause im waiting for a android phone with no keyboard |
| 04:50.52 | bgupta | yeah no worries.. it's a hackintosh... |
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| 05:16.37 | bgupta | http://source.android.com/roadmap according to this "Final push to the open-source repositories" Is supposed to finish up by dec. of this year... anyone know if this is complete/on schedule? |
| 05:17.09 | joeo | it's not complete yet |
| 05:17.15 | joeo | if it's not on schedule, it's close |
| 05:17.21 | joeo | but I'm not completely sure |
| 05:18.08 | jbq | we're working hard on it, but until it's done it's hard to be entirely sure. |
| 05:18.38 | bgupta | cool.. Wish whomever is working on it the best of luck... It's really hard to move stuff out from behind the curtain while still meeting internal milestones for project delivery.. |
| 05:19.10 | jbq | You've exactly identified the source of the difficulty. |
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| 05:20.13 | jbq | If we freeze regular development to do a push, we put pressure on all the rest of the roadmap. |
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| 05:21.08 | romainguy_ | jbq: ah the joy of switching back and forth between two different tree layouts :)) |
| 05:21.38 | jbq | If we take a snapshot and prepare it to be pushed out (which takes a while), by the time it gets outside it's already behind. |
| 05:21.44 | jbq | romainguy_: I feel your pain. |
| 05:21.59 | romainguy_ | but that's ok |
| 05:22.02 | bgupta | Well, it will be really great when you guys get it done. At least you guys aren't using two different source code management systems. (I hope). :) |
| 05:22.10 | joeo | yeah, I have no idea where the code is anymore |
| 05:22.11 | romainguy_ | soon we'll be going back and forth between two layouts and two different VCS :)) |
| 05:22.18 | joeo | in the tree i mean |
| 05:22.19 | romainguy_ | bgupta: well... :)) |
| 05:22.32 | bgupta | no!!!! say it ain't so.. |
| 05:22.32 | romainguy_ | joeo: me neither and half of my scripts don't work anymore |
| 05:22.43 | romainguy_ | and there's some stuff I have no idea on how to build without rebuilding the entire tree |
| 05:22.54 | romainguy_ | bgupta: it's temporary |
| 05:22.55 | joeo | we're switching from perforce internally to git externally |
| 05:23.32 | jbq | on top of that we're doing a relayout of the source tree so that it splits better into individual projects. |
| 05:23.33 | joeo | Shawn and I started gerrit and repo about 3 months ago |
| 05:23.39 | joeo | so it really hasn't had much time to mature |
| 05:25.14 | jbq | Several engineers have been spending a lot of their time in the last few months (or all of their time, or even more than that) to support our transition to being an open-source project. |
| 05:26.50 | bgupta | Damn seriously exciting times... I am psyched, because of the dev phones, it means someone is serious about getting ext. people to get to do real work... (THe source code is one thing, but without real hardware to test it on, it's kinda lacking... |
| 05:27.13 | joeo | yep |
| 05:27.17 | joeo | we really are serious about this |
| 05:27.18 | jbq | bgupta: exactly |
| 05:27.23 | romainguy_ | that'll teach to not have faith in us :p |
| 05:28.08 | RyeBrye | http://www.engadget.com/2008/12/05/sim-hardware-unlocked-android-dev-phone-1-surfaces-for-399/ I tippe'd 'em off :) |
| 05:28.40 | jbq | :) |
| 05:29.20 | bgupta | Gotta understand people are impatient... we have been waiting for this kind of platform for half a decade.. and hearing all the press for a good time now. |
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| 05:29.59 | swetland | I was pretty entertained by the huge "whoah they actually open sourced it" reaction we got when we pushed the 1.0 sources out just before g1 launched |
| 05:30.25 | RyeBrye | All the comments on that thread are positive buzz |
| 05:30.36 | jbq | bgupta: We totally understand. And we appreciate that you understand the magnitude of the task to switching to open-source on such a large project. |
| 05:30.44 | swetland | I mean we had been saying we were going to do that for roughly a year prior, but there was an awful lot of "no way it's some elaborate trick" speculation ^^ |
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| 05:31.21 | joeo | otoh, there are a few other linux phone projects are that we're still waiting for. So I understand the skepticism |
| 05:31.58 | swetland | I wish we could have shipped the dev devices at the same time as g1 launch. didn't quite work out that way |
| 05:32.14 | romainguy_ | now that the source and dev devices are out I will demand one ListView patch for every complaint ^^ |
| 05:32.25 | romainguy_ | swetland: 6 weeks later isn't too bad :) |
| 05:32.41 | unix_infidel | swetland: heh, you at least could've told us they were coming ;-P |
| 05:32.57 | romainguy_ | swetland (and I) gave several hints on this very channel |
| 05:33.01 | romainguy_ | for the past few weeks |
| 05:33.30 | romainguy_ | (and "hints" is a weak term :) |
| 05:33.36 | swetland | yeah, I have been dropping the occasional not-so-subtle hint, without stepping over the line that would cause management to strangle me ^^ |
| 05:33.39 | RyeBrye | I just need a dump of the spl part from an engineering phone :( |
| 05:33.59 | swetland | I need to subscribe to that g1-hacking list. I miss all the fun ^^ |
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| 05:34.02 | RyeBrye | swetland: you can just pm me - I can keep secrets |
| 05:34.12 | romainguy_ | RyeBrye: you don't want to simply get a dev phone? |
| 05:34.24 | jbq | Now, let's get the latest source code out (so much work left, and I don't want the people involved to burn out *again*). |
| 05:34.54 | romainguy_ | jbq: today my manager forbade me to burn out again for a few months :) |
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| 05:35.12 | joeo | is way past burned out |
| 05:35.21 | RyeBrye | romainguy_: wife. I already dropped $$ on a phone. She wont let drop $400 on a dev one |
| 05:35.35 | swetland | romain: you are not allowed to die until after we ship |
| 05:35.43 | swetland | romain: this rule resets after we ship |
| 05:35.48 | romainguy_ | swetland: that's what Mike told me :) |
| 05:35.49 | joeo | it's like how charcoal is burned already, but somehow it still catches fire |
| 05:35.57 | unix_infidel | swetland: ship? |
| 05:36.02 | romainguy_ | joeo: it's your bones man, they can burn |
| 05:36.15 | bgupta | I gotta say *again*. For a 1.0 release. This was one of the best... I don't think people realize it yet, because it's a t-mobile only device... but this platform is gonna end up doing very well... For something still in it's infancy.. it's solid.. (Many here will agree). |
| 05:36.18 | swetland | ui: we aren't actually packing up and going home after the first phone hits the market ^^ |
| 05:36.30 | romainguy_ | bgupta: ask Disconnect :)) |
| 05:36.52 | jbq | romainguy_ ;-) |
| 05:36.57 | RyeBrye | I'm fairly confident I can get the unlocked bootloader on the normal G1 - but the one guy I know who has one that got it magically has disappeared off the face of the earth |
| 05:37.21 | romainguy_ | RyeBrye: oooh that would be cheating |
| 05:37.51 | RyeBrye | I'll get a gel pen and draw polygons on the back of my phone - nobody will ever know! |
| 05:38.54 | swetland | just be *really* careful when you guys start reflashing hboot |
| 05:39.07 | swetland | because hosing that is a huge pain in the ass to recover from |
| 05:39.22 | RyeBrye | Yeah, I can only imagine |
| 05:39.28 | romainguy_ | swetland: with these dev devices I feel lame with the devices I'll give away next week in Europe :p |
| 05:39.42 | RyeBrye | romainguy_: - true... you should give them to me instead |
| 05:39.42 | geist | neat, dev devices |
| 05:39.51 | RyeBrye | infobot tell geist about devphones |
| 05:40.04 | jbq | swetland: is hosing hboot the step such that they're hosed enough that they're not worth recovering? |
| 05:40.08 | romainguy_ | RyeBrye: buy a ticket to Devoxx |
| 05:40.13 | geist | :) |
| 05:40.18 | wastrel | hose thou not thy boot |
| 05:40.30 | geist | now my device doesn't feel so funny |
| 05:40.32 | swetland | jbq: recovery from that has some serious quality of life consequences for the device |
| 05:40.57 | RyeBrye | yeah, it'd be pretty hard to recover from it on a normal phone I imagine |
| 05:41.01 | SanMehat | swetland: yo boss |
| 05:41.55 | swetland | I'm pretty sure production devices don't have the arm9 bl recovery mode stuff (would be a big backdoor) so they'd have to take the device apart and rework it to reflash. The hw I have that's been through that process always has looked a bit beaten up |
| 05:41.59 | swetland | heya san |
| 05:42.13 | swetland | who did you bribe to get ops out here? ^^ |
| 05:42.28 | SanMehat | swetland: you dont want to know the things i had to do.. |
| 05:42.29 | unix_infidel | RyeBrye: heh, nice top. |
| 05:42.32 | SanMehat | terrible.. terrible things |
| 05:42.34 | SanMehat | shudders |
| 05:42.43 | *** mode/#android [+o swetland] by SanMehat |
| 05:42.47 | RyeBrye | swetland: Should the 2.6.27 kernel be able to boot a G1? http://android.git.kernel.org/?p=kernel/msm.git;a=shortlog;h=refs/heads/android-msm-2.6.27 |
| 05:43.15 | SanMehat | it should |
| 05:43.17 | swetland | rye: I'd wait until the next mainline open source push |
| 05:43.34 | swetland | because I believe there are a couple needed userspace changes that are not in the external trees yet |
| 05:43.46 | swetland | (but will be coming shortly) |
| 05:43.53 | SanMehat | ack right. |
| 05:43.55 | RyeBrye | cool |
| 05:44.07 | RyeBrye | I like cpu freq scaling, and I like cpu max freq at 528 |
| 05:44.10 | swetland | stick with .25 for the moment, move to .27 when we finish the next big external drop |
| 05:44.36 | swetland | rye: 528 isn't a big win in many cases (many pain points are io bound, not cpu bound) and does cost you power wise |
| 05:44.49 | swetland | the better cpu scaling is a plus though |
| 05:44.52 | SanMehat | RyeBrye: 528 doesn't buy you much from my experiments |
| 05:44.56 | swetland | s/cpu/cpufreq/ |
| 05:44.58 | jbq | swetland: can I ask you to have a look at gerrit changes 5269 and 5270? I'd like to push them before the week-end for the openmoko guys... in case they're still interested... |
| 05:45.05 | RyeBrye | Right, the bottleneck is memory right? |
| 05:45.22 | SanMehat | RyeBrye: i/o mainly |
| 05:45.31 | RyeBrye | http://android.git.kernel.org/?p=kernel/msm.git;a=commit;h=c2ae3738cf027412b6be46a43b19fee161b87ce7 What uses the Elan 8232 ? |
| 05:45.38 | swetland | jbq: is digit happy with these? |
| 05:45.55 | swetland | rye: nothing that's shipping yet |
| 05:46.15 | jbq | swetland: I haven't heard back from him. They're straight copies from the internal tree, and the diffs match the original change. |
| 05:46.25 | romainguy_ | doesn't 528 also overheats the thing? |
| 05:46.27 | RyeBrye | Elan 8232 code also has multifingers that can be tracked in it? |
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| 05:46.59 | SanMehat | romainguy_: not as far as i can tell, but it doesn't really buy you any noticible difference |
| 05:47.06 | romainguy_ | fwiw, I pestered swetland a while ago about running at 528 to improve the speed of the UI but it didn't help at all |
| 05:47.06 | jbq | swetland: anyway, it's obviously your decision. But if the decision is "yes" I'd prefer if it happened earlier rather than later. |
| 05:47.08 | romainguy_ | SanMehat: I know |
| 05:47.13 | romainguy_ | most stuff are I/O bounds |
| 05:47.23 | romainguy_ | or in the case of the UI, we're often bound by the bus speed |
| 05:47.29 | swetland | jbq: corner me on monday? if they're the same as the internal stuff, I'm fine with it |
| 05:47.44 | romainguy_ | I know that list flinging, which is the worst case scenario for the UI, doesn't go much faster at 528 |
| 05:47.46 | swetland | just kinda in the middle of MSM8250 hacking right now ^^ |
| 05:47.48 | jbq | OK, we'll see on Monday while digit it still in town. |
| 05:47.59 | jbq | uh, cool! |
| 05:48.14 | RyeBrye | MSM8250 ? |
| 05:48.17 | RyeBrye | want |
| 05:48.34 | swetland | some day! |
| 05:48.39 | SanMehat | swetland: you couldn't wait could you :) |
| 05:48.48 | jbq | 528 helps for non-IO non-graphics dalvik stuff. But not for the rest, and it's not worth the battery life. |
| 05:49.15 | RyeBrye | but with ondemand, doesn't it tend to not ever get up that high anyway even if it is enabled? |
| 05:49.15 | swetland | san: I've been trying to do this ALL WEEK |
| 05:49.27 | swetland | it is now nearly 10pm on friday and I can finally write some code in peace ^^ |
| 05:49.37 | romainguy_ | RyeBrye: yeah but battery life matters :)) |
| 05:50.16 | RyeBrye | romainguy_: but with ondemand clocking it at 3xx almost all the time, and only going up to 538 or whatever very occasionally, wouldn't that help it? |
| 05:50.21 | SanMehat | swetland: hahaha i know.. this week was a good coding week for me |
| 05:50.27 | swetland | lucky bastard |
| 05:50.38 | swetland | someday they'll make you a manager. you'll get yours! |
| 05:50.48 | jbq | I haven't coded a thing in a while month. |
| 05:50.51 | geist | same here. i have to essentially resort to working at home or working on the weekend |
| 05:50.55 | geist | sigh |
| 05:50.56 | jbq | s/while/whole/ |
| 05:51.06 | sparkle | nods |
| 05:51.16 | sparkle | romain, i really noticed the bus limits when i ran an lmbench :) |
| 05:51.49 | geist | someone else just noticed how terrible the msm7k is performance wise? |
| 05:51.50 | sparkle | for what it is it's definitely not bad |
| 05:52.42 | SanMehat | swetland: no f'in way do you want to make me a manager :) |
| 05:52.50 | jbq | geist: I don't find it terrible. My biggest concern is how it's in pain when doing 3D on a large screen. |
| 05:53.15 | geist | well, it's only terrible in contrast to all the other much better arm11s out there |
| 05:53.22 | swetland | san: it would be the same reason rubin made me a manager: revenge |
| 05:53.28 | SanMehat | ahahaha |
| 05:53.33 | jbq | lol |
| 05:53.42 | SanMehat | you're a sick one... but I *do* understand you.... |
| 05:53.58 | swetland | he'd been threatening to for years whenever I really pissed him off and he finally made good on his threats |
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| 05:54.23 | SanMehat | geist: hola - how goes? |
| 05:54.37 | jbq | makes a note to avoid getting Andy pissed off. |
| 05:54.38 | geist | pretty crappy. deep in trying to make stuff go |
| 05:54.54 | swetland | geist: you guys need to ship so these crazy people can port android to your hw |
| 05:54.59 | SanMehat | geist: doh. |
| 05:55.10 | geist | swetland: oh you wouldn't believe how nice it'll be to run android on :) |
| 05:55.19 | SanMehat | geist: :) |
| 05:55.40 | swetland | you've been taunting me forever. the ID had better be unfrickinbelievable ^^ |
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| 05:56.13 | geist | anyway, currently stuck in warm boot hell |
| 05:56.30 | geist | warm boots are always hell for bootloader, since you have essentially an infinite number of states the hardware can be in |
| 05:56.35 | swetland | warm boot for resume or just soft reboot? |
| 05:56.44 | geist | soft reboot |
| 05:57.02 | geist | warm boot for resume is handled by the cpu pretty nicekly |
| 05:57.04 | swetland | that's *one* nice thing about 7201a... we don't actually have to come back through the bl |
| 05:57.10 | SanMehat | oucha |
| 05:57.26 | swetland | ; ; |
| 05:57.27 | swetland | Unpacking replacement python2.5-minimal ... |
| 05:57.27 | swetland | Unpacking replacement python2.5-minimal ...Errors were encountered while processing: /var/cache/apt/archives/python-apt_0.7.3.1ubuntu4.2_i386.deb |
| 05:57.30 | swetland | E: Sub-process /usr/bin/dpkg returned an error code (1) |
| 05:57.53 | SanMehat | geist: back before when i was writing bioses, we always made warm boots turn into cold boots (before doing any HT initialization) |
| 05:58.00 | SanMehat | it was just easier to deal with |
| 05:58.10 | geist | yeah, but there's always something you dont catch |
| 05:58.20 | geist | especialy on the PMIC |
| 05:58.23 | geist | which is a monster |
| 05:58.27 | SanMehat | geist: well.. we'd make it a cold boot by forcing PCI_RST :) |
| 05:58.40 | SanMehat | that has a way of whacking *everything* |
| 05:58.44 | geist | sadly can't reboot the hand that feeds you by whacking the pmic |
| 05:58.48 | SanMehat | doh |
| 05:58.54 | SanMehat | that *is* sad |
| 05:59.05 | SanMehat | :( |
| 05:59.06 | swetland | kicks his ubunutu box |
| 05:59.07 | geist | anyway, works great until you trip over something you forgot |
| 05:59.15 | SanMehat | yeah |
| 05:59.20 | SanMehat | i don't envy you that |
| 05:59.25 | geist | nah, it's no biggie |
| 05:59.34 | geist | had similar problems at apple on iphone |
| 05:59.39 | SanMehat | holy crap this channel is hugs |
| 05:59.41 | geist | you just dig through the manuals until you find everything |
| 05:59.50 | geist | and reset the rest |
| 06:00.19 | SanMehat | hugs/huge |
| 06:00.24 | geist | it's mostly just annoying because it's a pain to debug |
| 06:00.29 | geist | no serial at that point |
| 06:00.39 | jbq | gives SanMehat a few huge hugs |
| 06:00.55 | geist | HUGEHUG ATTACK |
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| 06:01.35 | joeo | hey open source community: anyone feel like writing valgrind for arm so we can kill off the simulator? |
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| 06:01.52 | joeo | because I spent the last two days making the build system build it on 64 bit linux |
| 06:02.09 | swetland | oh gods, please let me kill the simulator |
| 06:02.16 | swetland | I've been trying for two years now |
| 06:02.22 | SanMehat | who still uses that? |
| 06:02.23 | geist | joeo: we already did |
| 06:02.25 | swetland | that thing is the bane of my existence |
| 06:02.25 | joeo | I know |
| 06:02.30 | joeo | mine too |
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| 06:02.43 | swetland | sanmehat: fadden will cry if he cannot run the vm in sim under valgrind |
| 06:02.45 | geist | joeo: we even sort of released it, but it hasn't made it back to the main valgrind tree yet |
| 06:02.47 | joeo | the browser team, fadden and marco use it |
| 06:02.53 | joeo | to run valgrind |
| 06:02.57 | joeo | geist: really? |
| 06:02.59 | geist | yeah really |
| 06:03.07 | joeo | url? |
| 06:03.11 | geist | we use it a lot, even supports armv7 |
| 06:03.13 | SanMehat | joeo: ASK AND YE SHALL RECEIVE |
| 06:03.14 | swetland | what I really want is valgrind-like functionality in qemu |
| 06:03.22 | jbq | ==swetland |
| 06:03.22 | joeo | yeah |
| 06:03.32 | geist | i dont know the status of it precisely. we sent in some patches to valgrind, dont know if they took it |
| 06:03.37 | swetland | so we don't take the performance hit of running valgrind inside the arm emu. though that'd be nice to have too |
| 06:03.43 | geist | it's a big pile of changes, so they're probably chewing on it |
| 06:04.10 | geist | i think the sticking point is the valgrind authors require that you assign copyright to them |
| 06:04.17 | geist | and so that causes our lawyers to have to get involved, etc |
| 06:04.22 | joeo | blah |
| 06:04.31 | geist | so i think we have put out a public set of patches, but it wont get integrated until we can sign off on it, etc |
| 06:04.34 | geist | haha, flooded |
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| 06:05.01 | joeo | sorry |
| 06:05.08 | geist | anyway, yeah we put an intern or two on it this summer and it worked out pretty well |
| 06:05.09 | swetland | geist: what toolchain do the cool kids who want vfp and neon support use these days? |
| 06:05.13 | geist | intern #2 is polishing it off |
| 06:05.19 | geist | swetland: codesourcery |
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| 06:05.26 | jbq | luckily, we have some good non-bullshit lawyers. |
| 06:05.30 | swetland | any particular version/build/etc |
| 06:05.40 | geist | we've been using 2007q3, it seems to be stable |
| 06:05.48 | geist | some of the newer 2008s had some neon issues |
| 06:05.54 | geist | though cs claims they're fixed now |
| 06:06.15 | geist | but i dont expect any real good neon support out of the compiler. that's asm territory |
| 06:06.17 | swetland | we're getting our ARMv7 stuff sorted out |
| 06:06.25 | geist | armv7 == w1n |
| 06:06.28 | swetland | yah |
| 06:06.37 | geist | thumb2 > * |
| 06:06.38 | swetland | I want to see mathias update codeflinger for it |
| 06:06.54 | geist | that's the current gotcha with our valgrind too, arm only at the moment |
| 06:06.59 | swetland | does thumb2 support ldex and such? |
| 06:07.00 | geist | haven't hacked in the thumb bits |
| 06:07.06 | geist | thumb2 supports everything |
| 06:07.15 | geist | all the cp15 stuff |
| 06:07.24 | swetland | now if only arm would get their heads out of their butts and release instruction set docs publicly |
| 06:07.27 | geist | all the new bits |
| 06:07.41 | andyross | thumb2 look an awful lot like i386, in fact |
| 06:07.42 | andyross | ducks |
| 06:07.44 | geist | the new docs are pretty hateful |
| 06:07.48 | geist | yep, exactly |
| 06:08.19 | swetland | 15 prefix bytes ftw |
| 06:08.26 | geist | now that we're essentially post instruction set making that much of a difference but cpu speed still outstripping memory, having dense .text matters more than anything else |
| 06:08.28 | SanMehat | hahaha |
| 06:08.39 | geist | intel waited long enough that having cisc ends up eventually paying off |
| 06:09.22 | geist | though i suspect that stuffing 256K or so of L2 in front of a usually cache starved arm starts making the thumb advantage go away |
| 06:09.29 | andyross | More like when you have 22 pipeline stages, an extra one or two for instruction decode doesn't seem like such a big deal. |
| 06:09.56 | geist | exactly. the cost of decoding x86 or thumb or thumb2 is more or less fixed, wheras the size of the cpu is going up by moores law |
| 06:10.04 | geist | now it's just this tiny little corner |
| 06:10.32 | jbq | x86 started to pull off when intel started to design chipsets with good L2 and RAM interfaces. |
| 06:10.42 | geist | and anyway, thumb2 is still pretty darn easy to decode. all 32bit thumb instructions have the same first couple of bits |
| 06:10.57 | SanMehat | 0xEA.......? |
| 06:10.58 | geist | it's easy to decide to fetch the next |
| 06:11.23 | geist | i forget. the 32bit instructions all fit into a previously unused piece of the 16bit thumb instruction space |
| 06:11.40 | swetland | oh wacky |
| 06:11.45 | swetland | qsd8250 has stacked memory |
| 06:11.50 | swetland | for some reason I thought it didn't |
| 06:12.19 | jbq | geist: ewww, that could have been a description of UTF-16. |
| 06:12.34 | RyeBrye | any word on how fast the dev phone ship? |
| 06:12.39 | geist | the only real icky thing in thumb2 is the way the emulated conditional instructions: the it isntruction lets you modify up to the next 4 instructions |
| 06:12.54 | geist | basically you can specify on conditiion <foo> take the next n instructions and dont take the next m |
| 06:13.00 | geist | where n + m <= 4 |
| 06:13.25 | RyeBrye | Oh, and do dev phones have only OSS stack of software, or will they have youtube... etc. on them? |
| 06:13.43 | jbq | geist: oh, wacky. |
| 06:13.46 | swetland | you know, I honestly don't know exactly what's in that build |
| 06:13.47 | ttuttle | geist: wow, that's powerful |
| 06:14.10 | geist | ttuttle: not as much as the original 32bit arm instruction set, where every instruction has a 4 bit condition field |
| 06:14.16 | geist | that's *very* powerful |
| 06:14.22 | andyross | expressive instructions aren't always a win though. They have to be worth the die area required to support them, which could be used for cache or whatnot. |
| 06:14.43 | ttuttle | geist: oh, wow |
| 06:14.46 | geist | yeah, arm is a realy fun instruction set for hacking by hand |
| 06:14.57 | geist | but meh, compilers do all the dirty work now |
| 06:15.11 | jbq | remembers Be's x86 compression code that made it 5x smaller (gzip typically only gets 2x). |
| 06:15.20 | geist | yes, i still tell stories about that jb |
| 06:15.24 | geist | jbq |
| 06:15.28 | joeo | I was just telling someone about that yesterday too |
| 06:15.34 | geist | it goes down in legend. i assume no one used it at access |
| 06:15.38 | swetland | that and pierre locking himself in his office for a week to write the rotated appserver |
| 06:15.39 | joeo | In the context of the systemimage being full |
| 06:15.39 | RyeBrye | Be was pretty nuts |
| 06:15.52 | RyeBrye | did some of you work on Be? |
| 06:16.04 | geist | joeo, swetland, jbq, and I did |
| 06:16.11 | geist | and more that are probably idling |
| 06:16.13 | swetland | bunch of us. I did kernel crap, scsi, usb, midi, cdr, etc |
| 06:16.19 | jbq | RyeBrye: the purchase page lists Google Maps, Gmail, YouTube, Google Calendar and Google Talk. |
| 06:16.22 | RyeBrye | Cool. I ran Be OS for a while on my PowerPC mac that had dual 604 processors |
| 06:16.27 | RyeBrye | jbq: - cool. |
| 06:16.29 | RyeBrye | jbq: thanks |
| 06:16.38 | swetland | it is beos x86's fault that I'm here |
| 06:16.40 | RyeBrye | jbq: and what about the market :) |
| 06:16.41 | jbq | I'm happy to have my name on the x86-compression patent. |
| 06:16.49 | geist | i have the dubious honor of having written the kernel for the haiku beos rewrite project |
| 06:17.01 | jbq | RyeBrye: oh, Market is also there. |
| 06:17.05 | RyeBrye | ok, good :) |
| 06:17.06 | *** join/#android Sverrir (n=sverrir@207.107.180.1) |
| 06:17.11 | RyeBrye | what about tricorder? |
| 06:17.13 | RyeBrye | ;) |
| 06:17.22 | jbq | is also here because of BeOS. |
| 06:17.36 | jbq | (where "here" is Google, and USA). |
| 06:17.40 | joeo | my career flows pretty directly from Be to here |
| 06:17.46 | geist | i managed to escape the pull of the mountain view singularity |
| 06:18.00 | geist | but i feel the tug every day. all trees lean in towards google |
| 06:18.27 | Leeds | Fnordg1: HK - and all of China - is GMT+8 |
| 06:18.32 | swetland | we are working on technology to edit the trees back into their natural position in streetview |
| 06:18.33 | RyeBrye | The Be demo showing balls bouncing between different windows that I saw in an issue of MacTech was pretty nuts to me at the time |
| 06:18.57 | joeo | who's going to implement that on android? |
| 06:19.01 | geist | oh no, you didn't see the swetland fishtank |
| 06:19.11 | *** join/#android gfindster_dev (n=indiabol@59.93.49.61) |
| 06:19.23 | jbq | was that DFP? |
| 06:19.33 | RyeBrye | What would the analog be for android? having a ball bounce between activities? |
| 06:19.34 | geist | on top of openblt |
| 06:19.49 | joeo | openblt? |
| 06:19.51 | jbq | RyeBrye: between devices, using xmpp. |
| 06:19.56 | geist | could do a fishtank on the device if you knew pretty accurately where the other fishtanks are |
| 06:20.06 | RyeBrye | jbq: if GPS was accurate enough, that would rule :) |
| 06:20.13 | geist | could be fun. fish swims off your device onto another |
| 06:20.16 | joeo | the compass might be able to get the orientation right |
| 06:20.20 | geist | you could paint one, or stick a note on it, or something |
| 06:20.39 | RyeBrye | How accurate is the ss strength meter on the bluetooth? |
| 06:20.40 | swetland | oh gods |
| 06:20.42 | swetland | http://www.acm.uiuc.edu/sigops/eoh98/dfp/fish.html |
| 06:20.56 | geist | there ya go. DFP needs to live again swetland |
| 06:21.04 | geist | this time it's domain is THE WORLD |
| 06:21.33 | RyeBrye | That would be funny :) if you could tag a fish with a little note and have it travel around - you could use the compass and rough location to find a peer |
| 06:21.40 | swetland | we need a new generation of SIGOPS nerds to create DFP2.0 |
| 06:21.51 | joeo | is this the one that would send it down daisy chained 10 Base 2? |
| 06:21.57 | RyeBrye | and fish could have a goal in mind that you give them when you create the fish |
| 06:22.08 | RyeBrye | i.e travel from San Francisco to New York - 1 phone at a time :) |
| 06:22.09 | geist | yeah |
| 06:22.14 | geist | dude! that would rule |
| 06:22.16 | RyeBrye | like travelbugs in geocaching :) |
| 06:22.40 | geist | maybe it could send you postcards |
| 06:22.42 | geist | where it got to |
| 06:22.50 | RyeBrye | Or it could post tweets along the way :) |
| 06:22.57 | geist | or whatever the kids call it nowadays |
| 06:23.00 | RyeBrye | a tweeting fish :) |
| 06:23.34 | RyeBrye | I wonder which would be cooler: requiring close proximity to transfer fish, or allowing it to jump up to a few miles to the next fish |
| 06:23.45 | RyeBrye | the jumping a few miles is probably less rapist friendly |
| 06:24.01 | geist | yeah, it would swim around in your tank for a whiel before jumping again |
| 06:24.11 | geist | i would sit there and watch it all day (instead of working) |
| 06:24.13 | RyeBrye | Yeah, until you got somewhere close enough that it could be handed off :) |
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| 06:24.44 | swetland | protip: downloading your kernel to valid physical addresses increases your chances of a successful boot |
| 06:24.48 | jbq | imagines the fish jumping off all the time in the Googleplex. |
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| 06:25.06 | RyeBrye | I'd drive to Googleplex just to pass fish off |
| 06:25.21 | geist | yeah, drive by and they'd all jump in your device |
| 06:25.24 | jbq | swetland: doh. I'm a l33t kernal h4x0rz, have you ever heard of virtual memory? |
| 06:25.25 | RyeBrye | :) |
| 06:26.56 | RyeBrye | IMF should take a backburner to fish |
| 06:27.04 | RyeBrye | just demonstrated why he isn't a manager |
| 06:27.38 | geist | dont worry, swetland only has about a 2 week attention span |
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| 06:27.45 | geist | it's legendary |
| 06:27.49 | *** join/#android gfindster_dev (n=indiabol@59.96.106.255) |
| 06:27.54 | RyeBrye | that can be medicated, I think |
| 06:27.56 | RyeBrye | ;) |
| 06:28.07 | RyeBrye | You can probably reduce it to 1 week |
| 06:28.10 | geist | nah, you need a number of swetlands in the world to get the ball rolling |
| 06:28.19 | geist | then you get dborts to finish it off |
| 06:28.23 | swetland | ahaha |
| 06:28.26 | jbq | geist: the scary part is that he can do in 2 weeks what regular engineers take 6 months to do. |
| 06:28.32 | geist | combined, they are unstoppable |
| 06:28.49 | geist | yeah, wish i was that way, but i think my brain rotted away a few years ago |
| 06:29.02 | geist | apple did it to me, i think |
| 06:29.03 | swetland | well I do a bit of both starting and finishing. more the former than the latter |
| 06:29.13 | *** join/#android gfindster_dev (n=indiabol@59.96.106.255) |
| 06:29.15 | RyeBrye | So how close was Apple to buying Be? |
| 06:29.22 | swetland | before our time |
| 06:29.31 | geist | way before our time |
| 06:29.33 | jbq | RyeBrye: that was before ... what swetland said. |
| 06:29.40 | RyeBrye | So they had already bought NeXT when you were there? |
| 06:29.48 | jbq | Yeah |
| 06:29.52 | geist | yeah, we were in the x86 years |
| 06:29.59 | geist | and jbq and i made it through the beia years |
| 06:30.03 | swetland | they hired me in may or june of 98 iirc |
| 06:30.08 | jbq | started on Apr 6 '98 |
| 06:30.09 | geist | may 99 for me |
| 06:30.13 | RyeBrye | That's when I started college - '98 |
| 06:30.27 | jbq | swetland: you started after I did? Geee, I didn't remember that, I thought you were there before me. |
| 06:30.36 | RyeBrye | I was running BeOS on my mac in 97 or something - they gave out discs with the PPC version of it at MacWorld IIRC |
| 06:30.56 | geist | yeah, i got into beso because a mac buddy of mine had r3 cds and gave me the intel one |
| 06:30.59 | geist | he didn't need it |
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| 06:31.22 | RyeBrye | So no BeBoxes lying around? |
| 06:31.26 | swetland | I owned a bebox, sold it to a friend when I lacked time to hack on it, but got the x86 cd when they shipped it |
| 06:31.30 | geist | has 2 in his arage |
| 06:31.30 | jbq | geist: funny, they weren't released together. maybe r3.1 or something. |
| 06:31.38 | jbq | I have 1 in storage. |
| 06:31.48 | swetland | got a 133MHz bebox in my hall closet at home, and a bemachine (dual hobbit, triple dsp) |
| 06:31.49 | geist | jbq: maybe it was one of the dev things? it was a little fold out thing with 2 cds in it |
| 06:31.54 | geist | i think i actually still have it somewhere |
| 06:32.00 | jbq | I think that was the 3.1 update. |
| 06:32.05 | geist | swetland: oh you have a hobbit. cool, we were just talking about those |
| 06:32.11 | jbq | may/june 98 |
| 06:32.22 | jbq | I have a hobbit mobo, plus a second set of (5) CPUs. |
| 06:32.28 | geist | would have been about right. i screwed around with it for a while, started hacking fs drivers for it |
| 06:32.32 | swetland | yeah, I put one together from bits and pieces from ming's backup cube |
| 06:32.36 | jbq | exact spelling h0bb1t. |
| 06:32.36 | geist | then did the intern thing in may 99 |
| 06:33.05 | geist | the only other working one i know of cameron had put together and sold on ebay a week after he was canned |
| 06:33.10 | swetland | where's Ming these days? Did he end up at apple too? |
| 06:33.19 | geist | he's at apple with manuel |
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| 06:33.23 | jbq | realizes that the ex-be guys must be looking like old farts in this channel. |
| 06:33.33 | geist | when i was at apple he was 3 doors down |
| 06:33.33 | RyeBrye | Wow. "um, just checked it out, they want $264 to ship to Canada..." re: the dev phone |
| 06:33.33 | swetland | that's because we *are* old farts |
| 06:33.39 | RyeBrye | Singapore is half price of canada? |
| 06:33.48 | swetland | rye: it's a smaller country |
| 06:33.51 | jbq | swetland: good point. |
| 06:33.54 | geist | yeah, should have reported to Carousel a long time ago |
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| 06:37.12 | swetland | oh wow |
| 06:37.23 | swetland | this cpu must be running at like tcxo or something |
| 06:37.27 | swetland | I thought it had crashed |
| 06:37.33 | swetland | it was just taking frickin' forever to decompress |
| 06:37.41 | geist | yay 32khz cpus |
| 06:37.55 | geist | well, guess not that slow |
| 06:38.03 | swetland | okay, time to understand how the hell the cpu clock control works on this beast ^^ |
| 06:38.39 | geist | you have to go ask the smaller, retarded, cousin to set it up for you? |
| 06:38.58 | swetland | nah. cpu clock is owned by the cpu |
| 06:39.08 | swetland | just works differently than on 7k |
| 06:39.15 | geist | in msm7k clock owns you |
| 06:41.56 | *** join/#android zhobbs (n=zach@2.136.33.65.cfl.res.rr.com) |
| 06:42.14 | RyeBrye | has Adobe hooked google up at all with betas of the flash player, or are they just playing with themselves? |
| 06:43.06 | RyeBrye | or if they did, you guys couldn't talk about it? |
| 06:43.27 | swetland | can't talk about unlaunched partner projects and such |
| 06:43.41 | RyeBrye | Ok. figured as much |
| 06:44.06 | RyeBrye | I'll have to work my adobe connections to see if they have a prerelease of it out there |
| 06:44.22 | RyeBrye | pretends he has strong adobe connections, when really he just knows people who do |
| 06:44.45 | *** join/#android pawalls (n=pawalls@fnord.rabidgeek.com) |
| 06:47.52 | RyeBrye | not my submission, but on digg right now is a link to the engadget post about the G1 dev phones: http://digg.com/gadgets/SIM_hardware_unlocked_Android_Dev_Phone_G1_for_399 |
| 06:49.57 | spikebike | interesting, maybe that's the answer to having root |
| 06:50.52 | RyeBrye | yep, it is. |
| 06:50.57 | RyeBrye | you missed the orgy about it earlier! :) |
| 06:51.06 | RyeBrye | infobot: tell spikebike about devphones |
| 06:51.18 | spikebike | heh |
| 06:51.30 | spikebike | yeah I *gasp* actually went out for awhile on friday night ;-) |
| 06:52.37 | RyeBrye | If I knew reliably how fast the G1 dev phone would ship, I'd buy one right now - get the unlock code for my G1 - and post it on eBay tonight |
| 06:53.19 | spikebike | do you have root on your phone now? |
| 06:56.50 | RyeBrye | Me? yeah |
| 06:57.29 | RyeBrye | but... buying a new toy is always buying a new toy - even if said new toy is almost identical to your old new toy except it has funky graphics on it |
| 06:57.56 | bgupta | night all... be back tomorrow... |
| 06:58.06 | bgupta | or technically later today |
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| 06:59.44 | *** mode/#android [+o morrildl] by ChanServ |
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| 07:13.11 | muthu_ | 225$ shipping for dev device? |
| 07:13.21 | ttuttle | mu? |
| 07:13.25 | ttuttle | muthu_: ? |
| 07:13.41 | muthu_ | am trying to order the developer device.. |
| 07:13.41 | rwhitby | So that $25 + $399 + $225 total? |
| 07:13.46 | ttuttle | muthu_: $399 includes free shipping, I thought. |
| 07:13.53 | romainguy_ | in the US |
| 07:13.57 | muthu_ | nope, 225$ shipping for india |
| 07:14.04 | ttuttle | muthu_: oh |
| 07:14.17 | romainguy_ | the shipping probably includes custom taxes |
| 07:14.27 | ttuttle | romainguy_: ah |
| 07:14.31 | muthu_ | hmm.. |
| 07:14.33 | romainguy_ | remembers the custom taxes on his Japanese PSP :) |
| 07:14.40 | ttuttle | muthu_: get a friend to forward it to you? |
| 07:14.52 | muthu_ | ttuttle: yeah, i'll have to find someone to smuggle it for me |
| 07:14.58 | muthu_ | ;) |
| 07:15.47 | ttuttle | is not speaking on behalf of Google and does not encourage dodging customs taxes, etc... |
| 07:15.55 | muthu_ | heh |
| 07:17.22 | muthu_ | ttuttle: that's the dev device you have right? |
| 07:17.29 | *** join/#android jham (n=jham@c-67-169-11-90.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
| 07:18.24 | muthu_ | nice to have the developer devices available.. google is in the right direction |
| 07:19.03 | ttuttle | muthu_: it's a }1, but configured as a dev device. |
| 07:19.07 | ttuttle | * G1 |
| 07:19.20 | muthu_ | ok |
| 07:19.36 | romainguy_ | it's not a G1 :) |
| 07:19.40 | ttuttle | muthu_: So it's got an unlocked bootloader and radio. Also, it runs Google dogfood builds :) |
| 07:19.42 | romainguy_ | it has the same hardware though |
| 07:19.45 | sparkle | i still want purple/black camo :p |
| 07:19.57 | ttuttle | romainguy_: It says G1 on the case and the boot screen. |
| 07:20.05 | ttuttle | romainguy_: :P |
| 07:20.16 | ttuttle | romainguy_: Okay, it's an AT&T G1 :P |
| 07:20.23 | romainguy_ | ttuttle: I'm talking about the Android Dev Device 1 |
| 07:20.25 | *** join/#android gfindster_dev1 (n=indiabol@59.93.71.134) |
| 07:20.28 | ttuttle | romainguy_: oh okay |
| 07:20.46 | muthu_ | romainguy_: it should be close to a G1, isn't it? |
| 07:20.49 | ttuttle | romainguy_: I thought you were talking about mine. |
| 07:21.04 | ttuttle | muthu_: It's the same thing, just with a different model name. |
| 07:21.21 | muthu_ | yeah, thought so |
| 07:21.23 | romainguy_ | muthu_: same hardware |
| 07:21.29 | romainguy_ | G1 is T-Mobile's |
| 07:21.30 | muthu_ | right |
| 07:21.39 | ttuttle | romainguy_: Oh, do the Dev devices support AT&T 3G? |
| 07:22.03 | romainguy_ | no |
| 07:22.12 | romainguy_ | same hardware I said |
| 07:22.18 | ttuttle | romainguy_: oh good, then I don't need to be jealous. |
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| 07:22.31 | *** join/#android andyross (n=andy@static-71-245-107-194.ptldor.fios.verizon.net) |
| 07:22.40 | romainguy_ | you didn't pay for it, you cannot be jealous :) |
| 07:23.06 | ttuttle | romainguy_: true |
| 07:23.22 | ttuttle | romainguy_: /me <3 Google. |
| 07:23.31 | ttuttle | romainguy_: It's a wonderful phone. |
| 07:23.45 | romainguy_ | I wish I had a prod device ^^ |
| 07:24.06 | ttuttle | romainguy_: :( |
| 07:24.18 | romainguy_ | one without huge etched serial numbers ;-) |
| 07:24.39 | ttuttle | romainguy_: Get them to send one to Thomas Buttle, then I'll send it back to you ;-) |
| 07:25.22 | swetland | Buttle's bootloader version wasn't on Tuttle's invoice. It was an honest mistake. |
| 07:25.31 | ttuttle | swetland: ;) |
| 07:25.49 | swetland | calls Central Services |
| 07:26.19 | romainguy_ | and there's the new SDK too ^^ |
| 07:26.47 | ttuttle | romainguy_: oh yeah, I need to download that. |
| 07:26.48 | muthu_ | lot of android training is required in bangalore |
| 07:27.02 | ttuttle | muthu_: what do you mean? |
| 07:27.05 | swetland | wonders how long until somebody ports openmoko to the devphone ^^ |
| 07:27.12 | muthu_ | looks like android development is picking up in bangalore india |
| 07:27.18 | ttuttle | muthu_: ah |
| 07:27.19 | xsdg | swetland: I heard that if you press the right sequence of keystrokes on the G1, you can get it to make a phone call |
| 07:27.26 | xsdg | swetland: is the same true of the dev phone? |
| 07:27.36 | swetland | xsdg: foul lies! |
| 07:27.45 | ttuttle | xsdg: no, maybe in android 2.0. |
| 07:27.55 | romainguy_ | swetland: I heard last week from an old friend of mine I didn't talk to in the past few years, he's working full time on OpenMoko stuff |
| 07:28.01 | romainguy_ | writing yet another UI toolkit ^^ |
| 07:28.16 | swetland | you can never have too many ui toolkits |
| 07:28.34 | romainguy_ | swetland: can I start a new one for Android 2? :) |
| 07:28.35 | xsdg | someone should make a UI toolkit called "GIT" |
| 07:28.43 | xsdg | "Generally Integrated Toolkit" |
| 07:28.49 | ttuttle | swetland: android needs another few |
| 07:29.05 | swetland | romain: only if it's backed by GL and designed for hw accel from day one |
| 07:29.07 | romainguy_ | still wants to write a scenegraph/physics engine based UI toolkit |
| 07:29.10 | swetland | if so, you have my blessing |
| 07:29.11 | romainguy_ | swetland: that was implied |
| 07:29.37 | RyeBrye | romainguy_: I could help you with that physics engine - depending upon when you wanted to do it |
| 07:29.39 | xsdg | romainguy_: only if you write the physics engine :o) |
| 07:29.56 | ttuttle | swetland: so how are things going? |
| 07:29.57 | romainguy_ | well GridView almost has a physics engine inside ^^ |
| 07:30.01 | RyeBrye | How complicated / accurate do you want to get? |
| 07:30.06 | RyeBrye | majored in computational physics |
| 07:30.15 | ttuttle | RyeBrye: cool |
| 07:30.27 | xsdg | RyeBrye: well, clearly, folks are going to want to use their phones for N-body simulations |
| 07:30.28 | RyeBrye | which really means nothing as far as physics simulations are concerned, but it SOUNDS like it should :) |
| 07:30.37 | xsdg | RyeBrye: how do you think Sky Map figures out where the stars are? |
| 07:30.42 | RyeBrye | I did tinker with the Open Dynamics Engine for a while |
| 07:30.42 | romainguy_ | RyeBrye: it's to layout widgets so... :) |
| 07:30.56 | RyeBrye | Oh, you probably can just fake it all then |
| 07:31.21 | RyeBrye | well... by fake it I mean you woudln't want to give widgets mass and momentum and joints or anything, right? |
| 07:31.30 | romainguy_ | that's where you wrong :) |
| 07:31.31 | RyeBrye | like... no ragdoll widgets? |
| 07:31.32 | romainguy_ | you never know :p |
| 07:31.35 | xsdg | RyeBrye: yes, the widgets like a toke every once in a while |
| 07:31.48 | romainguy_ | especially when it comes to animating layouts/transitions, that could be useful |
| 07:32.07 | RyeBrye | are you talking 3D or just 2D plane physics? |
| 07:32.10 | romainguy_ | 2D |
| 07:32.18 | RyeBrye | Yeah, 2d is a lot simpler |
| 07:32.23 | xsdg | romainguy_: of course, you could have all the widgets on a mat with some friction, and then run the accelerometer 24/7 |
| 07:32.25 | RyeBrye | well, 1 dimension simpler :) |
| 07:32.29 | romainguy_ | RyeBrye: did you know that listview uses the coefficient of friction of leather on ice expressed in pixels per second? :) |
| 07:32.41 | xsdg | RyeBrye: you can actually do rotation in 2d |
| 07:32.44 | RyeBrye | That's cool, I didn't look at it much |
| 07:32.55 | xsdg | romainguy_: haha |
| 07:33.06 | romainguy_ | (maybe it's not leather on ice anymore, I changed that coefficient too many times to recall, but it's a real coefficient :) |
| 07:33.28 | RyeBrye | Yeah, using a real one that closely matches the sensation you are trying to express would make sense |
| 07:33.30 | xsdg | romainguy_: what's the spring constant for the app drawer? |
| 07:33.37 | romainguy_ | it doesn't use a spring |
| 07:33.50 | romainguy_ | I did use spring equations to implement a bouncing drag and drop once though |
| 07:34.05 | romainguy_ | (you drop an item on your desktop, it bounces a little when it falls and hits the desktop :) |
| 07:34.10 | xsdg | romainguy_: I should find some excuse to get you to solve the Navier-Stokes eqns |
| 07:34.19 | romainguy_ | I hate maths |
| 07:34.24 | xsdg | bah, math is awesome |
| 07:34.26 | RyeBrye | I think I did nothing but spring equations for an entire year in college. |
| 07:34.28 | romainguy_ | no |
| 07:34.34 | RyeBrye | or variations of things involving springs |
| 07:34.35 | romainguy_ | RyeBrye: ouch :) |
| 07:34.38 | xsdg | romainguy_: what's better than math? |
| 07:34.41 | xsdg | nothing |
| 07:34.44 | romainguy_ | pretty much everything |
| 07:35.26 | romainguy_ | including steamed fennel |
| 07:35.28 | RyeBrye | WEll... htat's a bit of an exaggeration - but yeah, lots of different driven oscillators and stuff |
| 07:35.29 | romainguy_ | and it's pretty bad :) |
| 07:35.39 | RyeBrye | steamed fennel? nah - you have to toast it and crush it |
| 07:35.44 | RyeBrye | then put it on pork |
| 07:35.46 | xsdg | MARMITE! |
| 07:35.49 | RyeBrye | (well, fennel seed) |
| 07:35.50 | jham | romainguy_: I think ListView is now using the coefficient of friction of cold Mexican Coke on a fake wooden desk |
| 07:35.53 | romainguy_ | RyeBrye: I guess that's better than all the project management I did in school |
| 07:35.55 | offby1 | xsdg: spread thinly on toast |
| 07:36.04 | romainguy_ | jham: it could very well be the case ;-))) |
| 07:36.15 | offby1 | .oO("maybe I'm thinking of Bovril") |
| 07:36.22 | romainguy_ | jham: I'm gonna miss our Mexican coke dude |
| 07:36.29 | romainguy_ | oh wait |
| 07:36.32 | xsdg | romainguy_: Jumex? |
| 07:36.36 | romainguy_ | in France coke uses real sugar too :) |
| 07:36.50 | RyeBrye | This is just a snippet from one of my homework assignments that I thought mildly interesting: http://www.ryebrye.com/blog/2006/06/15/what-are-the-different-vibrational-modes-on-a-circular-drumhead/ |
| 07:37.14 | romainguy_ | argh |
| 07:37.37 | romainguy_ | RyeBrye: you blog about your twits? |
| 07:37.49 | RyeBrye | romainguy_: you mean my kids? |
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| 07:38.13 | RyeBrye | romainguy_: or my tweets? I just have my twitter feeding my sidebar just so I don't feel obligated to update my blog that often |
| 07:38.26 | romainguy_ | tweets, however you call the stuff from twitter |
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| 07:38.35 | xsdg | romainguy_: `dict twit` :o) |
| 07:38.38 | romainguy_ | I was talking about the weekly posts with a bunch of twitter stuff inside |
| 07:38.39 | RyeBrye | my kids would also apply |
| 07:38.52 | RyeBrye | Yeah, auto generated digest |
| 07:39.16 | RyeBrye | It mainly gives me motivation to post at least once a week because I'd look really lame if I just had two of those posts back to back |
| 07:39.22 | jham | romainguy_: It's not just the sugar, but also the glass bottle |
| 07:39.35 | romainguy_ | jham: true true |
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| 07:40.53 | offby1 | RyeBrye: I dimly recall learning why drums don't generally generate a musical note, and those things that _do_ generate a musical note tend to be one-dimensional (more or less). Steel drums are still a mystery, though |
| 07:41.53 | RyeBrye | offby1: - good point. I never thought about steel drums - but I have a good contact with the head of the acoustics department - who is also the chair of the physics department... I could bug him and see his answer. |
| 07:42.08 | xsdg | offby1: steel drums are... metal... |
| 07:42.21 | RyeBrye | Right, but the musical pitch to them |
| 07:42.22 | xsdg | offby1: the head isn't something stretched over a frame |
| 07:42.51 | RyeBrye | yeah, but the vibrations have to propogate - and the constraints are similar in how they can move if it's circular |
| 07:42.57 | xsdg | RyeBrye: they tune them, likely by changing the shape and thickness of the metal |
| 07:43.03 | xsdg | RyeBrye: steel drums have pockets |
| 07:43.22 | xsdg | RyeBrye: it's not like they just cut a steel trashcan in half :o) |
| 07:43.38 | Acidulous | Steel drums are hammered into that shape by hand, they spend hours tuning them manually |
| 07:43.48 | RyeBrye | http://hotpans.se/pan/tuning/theory.19.html#RTFToC2 |
| 07:44.19 | DarkriftX | rtft0c2? read the fucking table of contents too? |
| 07:44.28 | DarkriftX | lol |
| 07:44.30 | RyeBrye | Yes :) |
| 07:44.32 | DarkriftX | nice |
| 07:44.37 | Acidulous | hahaha awesome |
| 07:44.39 | DarkriftX | that was a guess :S |
| 07:44.44 | DarkriftX | checks the url |
| 07:44.44 | RyeBrye | either that or they got it out of an RTF doc? |
| 07:47.47 | romainguy_ | sigh |
| 07:47.47 | JesusFreke | Rye: you may find the acoustics of the tabla are interesting too :) |
| 07:47.47 | xsdg | romainguy_: not allowed |
| 07:47.47 | romainguy_ | so many duplicates in the bug tracker |
| 07:47.47 | RyeBrye | you should outsource that dup finding to someone |
| 07:47.55 | xsdg | RyeBrye: hey; need a free job? |
| 07:48.04 | JesusFreke | basically, the add mass to the drum head in such a way to align the different modes more harmonically |
| 07:48.04 | RyeBrye | ducks |
| 07:48.13 | romainguy_ | RyeBrye: I'm not looking for dups, I just monitor the new bugs, and notice they are dups :) |
| 07:48.15 | RyeBrye | JesusFreke: that's interesting |
| 07:48.25 | JesusFreke | so you actually get a "pitched" sound, when hit correctly |
| 07:48.47 | xsdg | JesusFreke: can they do other things to make the sound yaw and roll also? |
| 07:48.50 | offby1 | I summarize that page as: "Nobody really knows why steel drums sound the way they do" |
| 07:49.03 | offby1 | slaps xsdg upside the haid |
| 07:49.13 | xsdg | :o) |
| 07:49.18 | RyeBrye | romainguy_: You could create a series of menial tasks and have someone calculate the $ / dev hour each task is worth - and then find some economical way to make it cheaper to reward other people with random dev phone giveaways for slaving away at the project |
| 07:49.21 | JesusFreke | xsdg, no. they haven't figured out how to put ailerons on the drumhead yet.. |
| 07:49.23 | JesusFreke | :D |
| 07:49.36 | xsdg | high-fives JesusFreke |
| 07:49.45 | RyeBrye | kind of like how the national park service gives out Volunteer passes for a year - but you hve to do 1000 hours or something to get one (and buying one only costs $85) |
| 07:49.49 | romainguy_ | RyeBrye: or I could just use all that time to actually fix bugs :)) |
| 07:50.24 | RyeBrye | romainguy_: no. the direct approach is never the proper approach. |
| 07:50.38 | RyeBrye | ;) |
| 07:50.46 | romainguy_ | RyeBrye: my job is to fix the bugs, not to manager the bug tracker :)) |
| 07:50.51 | romainguy_ | -r |
| 07:51.21 | RyeBrye | If you want to beta test how a program of gifting dev hardware would influence something - I will be a guinnea pig :) |
| 07:51.52 | romainguy_ | RyeBrye: if from now on you fix all the ListView bugs, I'll give you my device :) |
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| 07:52.55 | RyeBrye | romainguy_: hmm. do what Adobe does in their bug tracker for some of their Flex stuff. Mark it as "wontfix" and give some real long winded explanation explaining why the way it exists now is because of some kind of higher understanding of the universe |
| 07:53.32 | romainguy_ | RyeBrye: we have that too, you just haven't seen it yet :) |
| 07:55.05 | RyeBrye | I found a few bugs in Flex 3 beta and submitted them when I was still new to the Flex framework - they were almost all eventually marked as "wontfix" with some long explanation - but I just figured I was the problem... but slowly over the past year or two I've found about a dozen blog posts linking to people ranting about whatever specifc bug it was I reported |
| 07:55.23 | RyeBrye | minor stuff... like they changed their Panel container and completely broke behavior... etc. |
| 07:55.29 | RyeBrye | Anyway... I felt vindicated I guess :) |
| 07:56.08 | romainguy_ | I have a couple of friends who work on the Flex SDK :) |
| 07:56.21 | romainguy_ | actually I'm giving a talk with one them next week |
| 07:56.29 | romainguy_ | I'll let him know he sucks :p |
| 07:56.36 | RyeBrye | Yes, if he worked on Panel, he probably does suck :) |
| 07:56.47 | RyeBrye | Flex 4 seems cool. |
| 07:56.59 | romainguy_ | he's writing the new Animations, Effects and Transitions APIs |
| 07:57.10 | romainguy_ | Flash Catalyst looks just awesome |
| 07:57.21 | RyeBrye | They gave out a prerelease to people at MAX |
| 07:57.29 | romainguy_ | yeah I saw |
| 07:57.32 | romainguy_ | I had a pass but couldn't go |
| 07:57.34 | RyeBrye | I think I can say I've used it |
| 07:57.53 | romainguy_ | that said I guess I coul djust ask for it |
| 07:58.12 | RyeBrye | Yeah, they have a closed prerelease that you could easily get on with your connections to get the latest and greatest |
| 07:58.36 | romainguy_ | it served me well in the past :)) |
| 07:58.51 | romainguy_ | I'm glad I didn't have to pay for Flex Builder |
| 07:59.03 | RyeBrye | well.... there are several ways of accomplishing that objective :) |
| 07:59.21 | romainguy_ | +legally |
| 07:59.24 | RyeBrye | :) |
| 07:59.39 | RyeBrye | Flex Builder 4 adds such advanced coding stuff like... wait for it... generating getters and setters! |
| 07:59.44 | romainguy_ | the Adobe employees discounts on the Creative Suite and Photoshop are also pretty col |
| 07:59.46 | romainguy_ | cool |
| 07:59.59 | romainguy_ | yeah Flex Builder is nice but it lags far behind free Java IDEs |
| 08:00.11 | romainguy_ | I haven't tried Flex support in IntelliJ yet |
| 08:00.13 | RyeBrye | Yeah. IntelliJ is throwing its weight into the Flex stuff nicely |
| 08:00.20 | RyeBrye | It does basic refactoring already |
| 08:00.51 | RyeBrye | It handles the actionscript parts of it much faster than Flex Builder - plus doing a simple rename refactoring doesn't take 5 minutes |
| 08:01.19 | RyeBrye | Is your friend involved with the android bit? |
| 08:02.37 | RyeBrye | If they are doing a closed beta of it, I'd really like to get on it - since my day job right now is doing a big flex project I really want to see it on a phone... etc. - plus I CAN keep my mouth shut about stuff if I have to :) |
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| 08:05.02 | romainguy_ | no he works on Flex itself, not Flash |
| 08:05.49 | RyeBrye | Tell him that people who write UI frameworks for use on VMs are posers ;) |
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| 08:09.07 | mibFindster | hi channel |
| 08:13.23 | unix_infidel | is it possible to associate the Gmail and calendar apps with multiple gmail accounts? |
| 08:13.27 | unix_infidel | erm, google accounts& |
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| 08:34.04 | a-MIBGfid | hello |
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| 08:40.33 | JesusFreke | shhhh |
| 08:40.43 | JesusFreke | be wery wery qwiet |
| 08:40.43 | Impossible | morning |
| 08:41.04 | JesusFreke | we're hunting wabbits! |
| 08:41.05 | Impossible | are you hunting wabbits jf? |
| 08:41.09 | Impossible | ; |
| 08:41.11 | Impossible | ) |
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| 08:47.54 | FreeSoul | Hi guys! |
| 08:48.36 | FreeSoul | I've a couple fo questions... does android let the user access a linux terminal? |
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| 08:49.05 | FreeSoul | and does anybody of you know who ported Android to the Nokia N810? |
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| 08:55.06 | Neverender1 | theres a terminal emulator in the market. |
| 08:55.15 | Neverender1 | and yes. apparently. |
| 08:55.22 | FreeSoul | apparently? |
| 08:55.36 | Neverender1 | i saw a video |
| 08:55.40 | Neverender1 | but thats all |
| 08:55.42 | Neverender1 | so who knows |
| 08:58.19 | FreeSoul | ok Neverender1thanks for the info |
| 08:58.33 | FreeSoul | and... wait, can Android run on x86 ? |
| 08:58.55 | Neverender1 | not at the moment |
| 09:00.08 | Neverender1 | as far as i know.. |
| 09:01.02 | Neverender1 | http://www.linuxdevices.com/news/NS3641439368.html?kc=rss |
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| 09:03.14 | FreeSoul | many thanks Neverender1 |
| 09:05.22 | Neverender1 | np |
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| 10:10.10 | rb2k | hi there |
| 10:10.32 | rb2k | does anybody know specifics on the Android Dev Phone 1 concerning shipping? |
| 10:11.09 | rb2k | the price is nice, but adding VAT and import taxes tends to make it really expensive |
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| 10:31.12 | Leeds | rb2k: to where? |
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| 10:33.50 | rb2k | germany |
| 10:33.56 | rb2k | forgot to mention :) |
| 10:35.42 | rb2k | the question is weather google is able to start shipping inside the EU or not |
| 10:39.10 | Leeds | there is a list of supported countries on the info page... I don't know what the shipping would be to EU, but to Singapore it's US$120 :-( |
| 10:39.43 | rb2k | hm |
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| 10:39.57 | rb2k | I guess you can only find that out by signing up for 25 usd? |
| 10:40.13 | rb2k | (germany is in the list btw) |
| 10:40.25 | Leeds | yes, Germany is on the list, and yes, you can only find the actual shipping cost by signing up and going most of the way through ordering one |
| 10:40.41 | rb2k | oh... ok :-/ |
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| 10:41.07 | rb2k | kinda sucks |
| 10:41.09 | theCarpenter | i just got a phone |
| 10:41.10 | theCarpenter | wheeeeeeeeee |
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| 10:41.14 | rb2k | weeeeeeeee! |
| 10:41.30 | Leeds | and immediately left!!!! |
| 10:41.53 | rb2k | I think he started running and didn't realize that his laptop has a power cord |
| 10:41.57 | Leeds | heh |
| 10:43.03 | rb2k | but the shipping part really sucks... that would be a difference of 424 usd to approx 600 usd |
| 10:43.12 | rb2k | (adding VAT, Shipping and import taxes) |
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| 10:45.45 | Leeds | it does suck... |
| 10:46.11 | Leeds | it was pointed out that they are using the same company for fulfillment that the OLPC G1G1 programme used last year... and that's not a good thing |
| 10:46.58 | rb2k | :( |
| 10:49.34 | Leeds | on the other hand, the phone is cool :-D |
| 10:50.02 | rb2k | I already have an iPhone which is kinda cool... |
| 10:50.07 | rb2k | I just dislike objective c |
| 10:50.08 | rb2k | :P |
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| 10:50.40 | rb2k | (not that I think java is particularily great... but it's ok :P) |
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| 10:52.11 | rb2k | I think my umts connection just crapped out on me |
| 10:52.35 | rb2k | hm, strange |
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| 11:07.32 | a-MIBGfid | hi |
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| 11:30.40 | *** topic/#android is Open Source Release: http://source.android.com/ | Android Market is now open for new applications: http://market.android.com/publish | SDK 1.0_r2 is now available: http://tinyurl.com/684d9f |
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| 11:53.13 | phyburn | is there anyway to get root on RC30 yet? |
| 11:56.47 | Leeds | no |
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| 12:18.59 | a-MIBGfid | hello |
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| 12:19.40 | gfindster_dev2 | hello |
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| 12:57.56 | dual | From the Android SDK download page, I can only find there is a i386 version of the Android SDK for Linux. Where's the 64Bit version? |
| 12:59.28 | pohamir | they have 64bit drivers for vista on the xda forum |
| 12:59.58 | pohamir | dual: and are you using a pure 64 bit linux distro or is it multilib? |
| 13:00.14 | pohamir | also, buy a mac ;> |
| 13:00.38 | dual | Ubuntu Intrepid Ibex. I guess I can run 32bit, can't I? But I just wanted to know if there was a 64bit version available |
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| 13:01.13 | pohamir | i would imagen the 32 bit works fine, unless there is a kernel module |
| 13:01.23 | invain | 64bit? |
| 13:01.36 | dual | Just downloaded it, going to try it later today. |
| 13:01.42 | invain | android support 32bit linux distribution officially. |
| 13:01.48 | pohamir | dual: the mac didn't even require a driver, i just ran the excutable |
| 13:01.50 | invain | but. |
| 13:02.13 | invain | You can install 32bit android sdk in your 64bit linux distribution like fedora, ubuntu. |
| 13:02.28 | dual | invain: I hoped so |
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| 13:02.57 | invain | of course... |
| 13:03.08 | invain | where are you from? |
| 13:03.16 | pohamir | monkeys |
| 13:03.22 | dual | Norway. How does that matter? :P |
| 13:03.26 | invain | in my case, I am living south korea. and my company is samsung. |
| 13:03.41 | invain | no.. THis isnot matter. |
| 13:04.15 | dual | I haven't got an android phone though. They don't sell any in Norway yet. |
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| 13:09.43 | invain | oh.. |
| 13:09.45 | invain | dual.. |
| 13:09.48 | invain | me too.. |
| 13:10.26 | invain | but, developers and mania bought g1 phone in south korea. |
| 13:11.08 | dual | I hope Nokia comes with a relatively cheap Android phone soon, though it's not likely to happen :( |
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| 13:13.03 | xuan | g1 phone cost how much in your contry :P |
| 13:13.54 | invain | G1? |
| 13:13.59 | xuan | ta |
| 13:14.00 | xuan | ya |
| 13:14.10 | xuan | its cost ~$800 here |
| 13:14.21 | invain | you can query about price in ebay website. |
| 13:14.37 | invain | i bought g1 phoen $300. |
| 13:14.49 | dual | g1 isn't available in Norway, I'll have to buy it from the U.S. to get it. |
| 13:15.02 | invain | and We will mee 2nd android phone(agora) on Jan-29 , 2009. |
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| 13:16.44 | invain | dual.. you can use skype with wifi using tmobile roaming servier of norway. |
| 13:16.57 | invain | In my case, i am suing this method in south korea. |
| 13:17.33 | invain | but, I am not think that wifi support in south korea. |
| 13:17.43 | dual | But there aren't wifi zones available everywhere. |
| 13:17.49 | invain | because I am interested in application(*.apk) in g1 phone. |
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| 13:22.46 | blau-MikeDG | anyone know an easy way to search for an unformatted number with the contacts content provider? |
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| 13:32.53 | Leeds | there isn't going to be a nokia android phone any time soon - they're pretty committed to symbian and maemo |
| 13:33.22 | Leeds | and there is no skype for android (yet?) |
| 13:34.32 | blau-MikeDG | i want a netbook |
| 13:36.46 | Leeds | I've got a couple... |
| 13:42.27 | blau-MikeDG | although im concerned that eclipse won't be fun to run on one :) |
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| 13:45.22 | blau-MikeDG | lol, of course i probably sholdnt be developing on a netbook |
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| 14:22.37 | Dougie187 | whats this about? |
| 14:22.38 | Dougie187 | http://www.engadget.com/2008/12/05/sim-hardware-unlocked-android-dev-phone-1-surfaces-for-399/ |
| 14:23.01 | jbq | Dougie187: fully unlocked devices. |
| 14:23.10 | Dougie187 | its pretty neat. |
| 14:23.19 | Dougie187 | http://www.engadget.com/2008/12/05/android-1-0-gets-ported-to-the-nokia-n810/ |
| 14:23.20 | Dougie187 | and that? |
| 14:23.37 | Leeds | infobot: devphones |
| 14:23.38 | infobot | extra, extra, read all about it, devphones is a phone with magical powers and will make all your wildest dreams come true. You can read about them here: http://code.google.com/android/dev-devices.html - in order to buy one, you have to pay a $25 to be in the "developer club" and then you can get into the back room where they keep them behind a curtain of lava. very expensive to ship outside the US, or sporting this: http://tinyurl.com/54sxg2 |
| 14:24.12 | jbq | Dougie187: some people are manking progress porting Android to the N810 from source. |
| 14:24.23 | Dougie187 | thats pretty cool. |
| 14:29.36 | eugene | Leeds: word |
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| 14:54.13 | invain | The device currently costs $399 (USD) (including free shipping in the US), and will be available for purchase in 18 international markets, including the US, UK, Germany, Japan, India, Canada, France, Taiwan, Spain, Australia, Singapore, Switzerland, Netherlands, Austria, Sweden, Finland, Poland, and Hungary. |
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| 15:05.07 | Disconnect | so other than the backplate and the bootloader, is there any difference between a 'dev' g1 and a retail g1 with unlock code? |
| 15:06.04 | jbq | I think that it's a slightly more recent build, so it might have a few extra bugfixes, but the differences should be fairly minor. |
| 15:06.21 | Disconnect | is it the harbinger of updated OSS trees? :) |
| 15:07.28 | jbq | Well, the roadmap still says "this quarter" for the next big OSS push (and hopefully the last big one), so, in a way, yes. |
| 15:07.46 | Disconnect | heh |
| 15:07.51 | Disconnect | it'll be a christmas gift :) |
| 15:07.53 | jbq | For sure, for framework developers like you, the two go hand-in-hand. |
| 15:07.58 | Disconnect | yah |
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| 15:08.44 | Disconnect | might just give up on his frontend app and use mileage, focus on hacking the backend stuff (bt, vpn, blahblahblah) |
| 15:09.24 | jbq | The last thing I want right now is to have to tell a contributor "sorry, your change will be so hard to merge with all the work that was done in secret that we won't accept it now, please comeback when we have a newer source available and you've spent some time re-working your change". |
| 15:09.28 | Disconnect | hey. you have any knowledge (or willingness to test :) ..) hciattach speeds? i think we're gonna need >115200 anyway for stereo headsets and such.. |
| 15:09.44 | jbq | no idea about that. |
| 15:09.55 | Disconnect | yah that would cause a ton of trouble/lasting bad feelings |
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| 15:15.21 | SanMehat | morning |
| 15:15.29 | jbq | Hey SanMehat |
| 15:15.44 | SanMehat | hey jbq sup |
| 15:15.55 | jbq | Not much. Excited about the dev phones. |
| 15:16.20 | SanMehat | yeah thats great news |
| 15:16.56 | bradleyy | @ |
| 15:17.04 | SanMehat | bradleyy: ? |
| 15:17.51 | bradleyy | sorry, using connectbot and trying to figure out how to send an alt-something |
| 15:17.57 | SanMehat | ahh |
| 15:18.09 | bradleyy | don't think it's possible |
| 15:21.25 | SanMehat | Disconnect: re |
| 15:21.30 | bradleyy | which is a bummer. since i can't switch windows in my irc client |
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| 15:21.55 | SanMehat | :( |
| 15:22.01 | Disconnect | bradleyy: i think you can use esc number instead of alt.. |
| 15:22.07 | Disconnect | but #connectbot might know |
| 15:22.22 | SanMehat | Disconnect: we have a new driver for the High speed UART but its not quite ready yet |
| 15:22.39 | Disconnect | ah ok. so its not something i can fix :( but i appreciate the note :) |
| 15:22.50 | SanMehat | no problem :) |
| 15:23.05 | SanMehat | is really looking forward to working closer with the community now that the dev phones are available |
| 15:23.33 | jbq | me too |
| 15:25.17 | SanMehat | Disconnect: i believe there is some trickiness around power management that we're working on |
| 15:25.46 | Disconnect | if i promise not to bitch about battery life when using it can i have it to play with? :) |
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| 15:27.51 | ttuttle | SanMehat: morning! |
| 15:28.01 | jbq | I wonder how the availability of dev phones will impact the efforts to get Android on N810 and FreeRunner. |
| 15:28.04 | SanMehat | hey man |
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| 15:29.00 | Disconnect | jbq: i'd say initially negatively (platform hackers will wander off to a known-working platform) but overall probably it'll be very good - more people familiar with it than otherwise. |
| 15:29.22 | ttuttle | SanMehat: how's it going? |
| 15:29.35 | SanMehat | ttuttle: its going pretty decent man |
| 15:29.52 | ttuttle | SanMehat: cool |
| 15:30.08 | jbq | Disconnect: yes, I think your guess is good. It'd be good to have devices with different form factors for developers to test their apps on. |
| 15:30.29 | ttuttle | SanMehat: yesterday was my last day of classes -- just 3 finals left and I get to go home! |
| 15:30.46 | Disconnect | can anyone lend credence to the .au phone? the pics are obviously shopped, and i've never heard from any of the devs here or on the lists.. |
| 15:31.11 | SanMehat | ttuttle: yay! |
| 15:31.11 | SanMehat | ttuttle: come be my intern |
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| 15:31.25 | mikey| | http://code.google.com/android/dev-devices.html |
| 15:31.26 | mikey| | .... |
| 15:31.32 | SanMehat | mikey|: yup |
| 15:31.38 | mikey| | ponders whether he should cancel his contract |
| 15:31.52 | ttuttle | SanMehat: mail me a laptop with VPN and I will write you code. |
| 15:32.00 | mikey| | still within the 14 day period |
| 15:32.04 | jbq | Disconnect: we've released the 1.0 source code as apache2, so anyone can use that and commercialize a phone based on it without keeping Google or anybody else in the loop. |
| 15:32.22 | SanMehat | ttuttle: hmmm. |
| 15:32.23 | Disconnect | fair enough, but that doesn't make it actually feasable :) |
| 15:32.54 | Disconnect | mikey|: if you want the cool backplate, i would. otherwise just wait and keep root and a little birdie tells me you can upgrade from one to the other. |
| 15:32.58 | ttuttle | SanMehat: or, since it's OSS, just give me a list of bugreports to fix ;) |
| 15:33.04 | jbq | it all depends on how many engineers you have to write the missing pieces. |
| 15:33.12 | mikey| | Disconnect: I dont wanna be stuck in a contract |
| 15:33.19 | infernix | the real question is |
| 15:33.26 | infernix | can we pull the bootloader off the dev device |
| 15:33.27 | mikey| | i would be paying much more then if I just this device |
| 15:33.30 | infernix | and stick it on the retail ones |
| 15:33.30 | Disconnect | then you shouldn't have signed one :) but sounds like you want to swap |
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| 15:34.05 | Disconnect | infernix: probably. or at least, something equivalent can be done. but don't f it up or you'll have a -serious- bricking problem. |
| 15:34.05 | mikey| | the only reason i got a contract was because i needed/wanted the g1 |
| 15:34.16 | mikey| | otherwise, i've been contract free phone wise |
| 15:34.25 | Disconnect | mikey|: for $400 you could buy it w/o contract anyway |
| 15:34.30 | mikey| | from? |
| 15:34.30 | Disconnect | even before the dev devices |
| 15:34.32 | Disconnect | tmob |
| 15:34.34 | SanMehat | ttuttle: Disconnect yeah if you blow your boot loader you're done without JTAG |
| 15:34.38 | SanMehat | er |
| 15:34.41 | SanMehat | /sttuttle/ |
| 15:34.41 | Disconnect | heh |
| 15:34.44 | ttuttle | Heh. |
| 15:34.50 | mikey| | Disconnect: eh? sim free from tmob? |
| 15:35.00 | ttuttle | vanishes in a puff of regex. |
| 15:35.24 | akuma55 | i need help developeing a app like gotv |
| 15:35.40 | akuma55 | can some one help me with that |
| 15:35.45 | akuma55 | ? |
| 15:36.11 | mikey| | http://www.play.com/Mobiles/Mobile/4-/6884299/HTC-G1-Sim-Free-Unlocked-Mobile-Phone/Product.html |
| 15:36.22 | mikey| | yet no price tag or buy button :( |
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| 15:36.39 | kennyyu | android source tarball is not available? |
| 15:36.55 | obra | kennyyu: you should use git and repo to clone the source |
| 15:37.06 | kennyyu | ya, but my connection to git:// seems very slow......... |
| 15:37.34 | obra | *nod* |
| 15:37.42 | obra | do you want the whole OS or just part of it? |
| 15:38.01 | jbq | You can download tarballs for the individual projects. Check the snapshot link here: http://android.git.kernel.org/?p=platform/frameworks/base.git;a=tree and replicate for each project. |
| 15:38.02 | Disconnect | mikey|: walk in and ask (or call up and ask) |
| 15:38.18 | kennyyu | obra: i'm new to it... in fact i just want the emulator + the webkit sources |
| 15:38.49 | kennyyu | but not sure whether there are any inter-dependencies in between these 2 and the other projects.. |
| 15:38.55 | infernix | Disconnect: i've got an RC30 here and an RC28 on the way. with the dev showing up i feel kind of screwed |
| 15:39.12 | jbq | kennyyu: depends... do you want to compile it, or just read the source? |
| 15:39.13 | obra | kennyyu: ok. for the emulator, you want to grab the SDK |
| 15:39.18 | infernix | especially with the myfaves crap. i cant consciously sell it to someone without a t-mo subscription here in the netherlands |
| 15:39.20 | obra | or at least start there |
| 15:39.21 | Disconnect | infernix: yah. they did make vague statements about a dev device "someday". but i agree, they pretty well fucked over the platform hackers. |
| 15:39.36 | kennyyu | jbq: yes i'll have to compile it |
| 15:39.46 | jbq | kennyyu: then you need to download everything. |
| 15:39.46 | Disconnect | infernix: myfaves crap? it works fine w/o all that. |
| 15:39.51 | kennyyu | obra: alright. then the binary SDK you mean? |
| 15:40.00 | obra | right. I presume you don't want to build the emulator |
| 15:40.03 | kennyyu | jbq: hmm.. |
| 15:40.08 | infernix | Disconnect: myfaves sends SMS to number 453. this costs major bucks when not in the US and/or not on T-Mobile |
| 15:40.08 | obra | but just to use the emulator to build the browser |
| 15:40.10 | Disconnect | hasn't got a myfaves plan, just standard tmob family (well, standard-from-a-couple-years-ago with freebies they don't offer anymore :) ..) |
| 15:40.26 | kennyyu | obra: oh great, but how can i? |
| 15:40.43 | kennyyu | just to pull webkit snapshot? |
| 15:40.44 | obra | kennyyu: the emulator is part of the binary sdk. start by grabbing that |
| 15:40.45 | Disconnect | sweet |
| 15:40.51 | obra | then grab.. (hang on) |
| 15:41.33 | obra | http://android.git.kernel.org/?p=platform/packages/apps/Browser.git;a=snapshot;h=ba6d7b853c32ad6c3be26c443daa61f322bcfdc2;sf=tgz |
| 15:41.40 | obra | and see if that's good enough for you to build with |
| 15:41.42 | Disconnect | infernix: you can up the rc28 to modded uk image (no myfaves) |
| 15:41.57 | *** join/#android andyross (n=andy@static-71-245-107-194.ptldor.fios.verizon.net) |
| 15:41.59 | obra | (I don't know the internals of the browser and don't know if you'll need other system libs) |
| 15:42.04 | infernix | Disconnect: which is the one i'd like to keep then eh.. so i'm still f-ed until i can break the RC30 and sell that one |
| 15:42.28 | kennyyu | obra: understood. i've got to try it out. thanks |
| 15:42.30 | kennyyu | ! |
| 15:42.32 | kennyyu | :) |
| 15:42.39 | obra | infernix: does your local t-mobile not provide sim-unlocks after you've been with them for x months? |
| 15:42.43 | obra | kennyyu: no problem |
| 15:42.43 | jbq | the browser relies on so many components that by the time you've pulled in all the dependencies you might as well have pulled everything. |
| 15:42.55 | infernix | obra: for phones I bought over Ebay in the US? (i'm in .nl) |
| 15:42.57 | infernix | i doubt it |
| 15:43.01 | Disconnect | obra: its not a sim unlock problem, its a "this app does Evil" problem |
| 15:43.15 | obra | infernix: that would be an issue, yes |
| 15:43.17 | jbq | (maybe you can do without the kernel source code, though, since there's a prebuilt binary) |
| 15:43.21 | Disconnect | (i know, i know, its not 'secure' to let a handset owner disable apps on his own device....) |
| 15:43.48 | kennyyu | jbq: 'by the time you've pulled in all the dependencies' <-- will it be done automatically during the make? |
| 15:44.02 | jbq | kennyyu: no, you need to repo sync them. |
| 15:44.44 | mikey| | Disconnect: rang and asked, it's not sim free |
| 15:44.46 | pfft | if I do a repo sync right now ... how can I tell which rc number it currently is? |
| 15:44.47 | kennyyu | jbq: hmm, but acutlaly i've tried for 2-3 days without a success... the connection seems freezes so often |
| 15:44.58 | jbq | :( |
| 15:45.03 | pfft | or rather what is the current rc? |
| 15:45.11 | Disconnect | mikey|: neither is the contract one. |
| 15:45.14 | obra | needs to spend some quality time with his android app again soon. |
| 15:45.19 | Disconnect | its not sim unlocked, its contract free. |
| 15:45.24 | pfft | is there a web page showing the current rc number? |
| 15:45.38 | kennyyu | jbq: you don't have the problem with repo on your side? |
| 15:45.43 | jbq | I mean, you can try downloading the tarballs, but in that case I'll still recommend getting every single one of them. |
| 15:46.03 | jbq | kennyyu: usually not. But Google's main office has good connectivity ;-) |
| 15:46.10 | kennyyu | jbq: ya i understand |
| 15:47.11 | kennyyu | jbq: hmm.. my dorm has blocked quite a few form of connections seemingly. it might help me a lot if it will be available as an http-connection.... ;) |
| 15:47.15 | pfft | what is the latest rc number, and how does one find this out? |
| 15:47.54 | ttuttle | pfft: http://code.google.com/android/download_list.html perhaps? |
| 15:48.00 | kennyyu | (my dorm's internet sucks. even ftp-connection requires me to log-in to their vpn first...) |
| 15:48.06 | pfft | ttuttle: thanks |
| 15:48.22 | ttuttle | pfft: There are other RCs, of course, that you can't see :) |
| 15:48.25 | obra | kennyyu: any useful internet cafe nearby? ;) |
| 15:48.34 | ttuttle | ssh tunnel? |
| 15:48.38 | ttuttle | then dynamic forwarding? |
| 15:48.40 | ttuttle | then point everything to that? |
| 15:48.55 | pfft | ttuttle: i dont see any rc number ... am i missing something? |
| 15:49.00 | jbq | kennyyu: could you post that on repo-discuss? git (the tool) is capable of working over http (the protocol), so somewhere in theory is should be possible to configure the server and/or repo to go over http. |
| 15:49.05 | kennyyu | obra: I suppose Starbucks are ;) |
| 15:49.30 | obra | kennyyu: that often works |
| 15:49.46 | ttuttle | pfft: Doesn't the filename have "-rc2" in it? |
| 15:50.05 | pfft | no ... i'm not talking about the sdk |
| 15:50.14 | kennyyu | obra: but if not i'll waste the $$ for a cup of coffee purchase :P |
| 15:50.19 | pfft | ttuttle: i'm talking about the code that comes on current phones |
| 15:50.23 | ttuttle | pfft: Oh. |
| 15:50.26 | ttuttle | pfft: Buy one and look? |
| 15:50.35 | pfft | ttuttle: look where? |
| 15:50.35 | kennyyu | jbq: no problem. |
| 15:50.37 | obra | kennyyu: you're in hong kong, right? if you're desperate, there's great free wifi at the airport |
| 15:50.41 | ttuttle | pfft: Seettings > About phone |
| 15:50.48 | ttuttle | pfft: It should list it. |
| 15:50.54 | pfft | ttuttle: thanks |
| 15:51.19 | akuma55 | hello ppl |
| 15:51.43 | kennyyu | obra: heh, how come you know i'm in HK? the airport is far away...:) but it's okay i'll find a starbucks |
| 15:51.57 | kennyyu | (starbucks are everywhere now) |
| 15:52.08 | akuma55 | im a noob that would like learn to start programming makeing apps for the android first |
| 15:52.09 | mikey| | "# The android.jar in this SDK release now includes several classes that were missing from the previous SDK. " |
| 15:52.12 | obra | kennyyu: DNS lookups are everyone's friend ;) But yeah. I travel way too much. |
| 15:52.13 | kennyyu | though not as many as mcdonald's |
| 15:52.19 | mikey| | does that include text.util.regex? |
| 15:52.25 | akuma55 | can anyone help me |
| 15:52.26 | akuma55 | ? |
| 15:52.33 | mikey| | with? |
| 15:52.45 | kennyyu | heh |
| 15:52.51 | TiberiumX | Do you know Java? Best to start with some basic Java tutorials. |
| 15:53.08 | pfft | ttuttle: is there any way to get setting running in the emulator? |
| 15:53.14 | akuma55 | i play js on some of my websites |
| 15:53.20 | pfft | ttuttle: errm ... settings |
| 15:53.25 | akuma55 | i herd its not the same |
| 15:53.33 | jbq | akuma55: if you don't know java, start with some very simple java command-line programs on your computer. |
| 15:53.36 | TiberiumX | JS isn't the same as Java, so you'll have to start with the basics again. |
| 15:53.37 | *** join/#android loke (n=Loke@bb116-14-122-25.singnet.com.sg) |
| 15:53.49 | kennyyu | jbq: sorry. where is the repo-discuss that you mentioned? |
| 15:54.12 | jbq | http://groups.google.com/group/repo-discuss |
| 15:54.20 | pfft | ttuttle: when i go to settings in the emulator it says "unsupported action" ... wtf? |
| 15:54.24 | kennyyu | oh ya thanks |
| 15:54.26 | TiberiumX | What is the license on the artwork used in the android apps? Can I use it (menu items and such) as needed? |
| 15:54.30 | TiberiumX | icons* |
| 15:54.34 | kennyyu | (to jbq and obra) |
| 15:54.42 | kennyyu | :) |
| 15:54.50 | TiberiumX | A lot of them aren't in android.R.drawable. |
| 15:54.51 | akuma55 | anybody think you could show me some basics |
| 15:55.01 | obra | kennyyu: good luck! |
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| 15:55.18 | pfft | when i go to settings in the emulator it says "unsupported action" ... anyone know how to get that working in the emulator? |
| 15:55.41 | kennyyu | obra: ;) |
| 15:55.42 | TiberiumX | aduma55: Here is "Hello World". You should start with that. http://www.javacoffeebreak.com/java101/java101.html |
| 15:55.44 | jbq | TiberiumX: if they're in the android source tree, you can re-use them (after copying them) in your app. If not, don't copy them, they're not free to be re-used. |
| 15:55.58 | jbq | pfft: SDK 1.0r1 or 1.0r2? |
| 15:56.55 | pfft | jbq: how can I check the ... oh its 1.0_r1 |
| 15:57.07 | pfft | jbq: lemme guess ... r2? |
| 15:57.23 | jbq | pfft: yes 1.0r1 doesn't have settings. they *might* be in 1.0r2 but I'm not sure. |
| 15:57.46 | jbq | Maybe someone with 1.0r2 could confirm that for you... (I don't have it on my machine) |
| 15:57.58 | andyross | Is there a set of release notes for r2? What's changed? |
| 15:58.10 | akuma55 | TiberiumX, the thing is with programming is i never get pass the hello world like i just dont know what to do next |
| 15:58.25 | ttuttle | pfft: oh. if you've got the emulator, the rc is in the filename. |
| 15:58.27 | jbq | andyross: http://code.google.com/android/RELEASENOTES.html |
| 15:58.43 | obra | IIRC, I built a copy of the android release and just used adb to install Settings.apk in the emulator. |
| 15:58.55 | jbq | "The Settings and Email applications are now included in the SDK and available in the emulator." |
| 15:59.03 | Disconnect | hmm. question. if "android market is an open service" then why is it only on usa tmob phones? :( |
| 15:59.09 | Disconnect | shouldn't the apk be installable by anyone? |
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| 15:59.25 | pfft | jbq: so then how could i get a look at the code for rc29? |
| 15:59.34 | akuma55 | the apk installer dont work for me |
| 15:59.44 | hyo_ | hey guys: is there someone that has tested the android kernel by sean mcneil for the freerunner? |
| 16:00.00 | jbq | pfft: the source code for individual releases of individual devices isn't necessarily available. |
| 16:00.08 | obra | "# We regret to inform developers that SDK 1.0_r2 does not support MFM, RLL, or Winchester hard disk drives." |
| 16:00.13 | Disconnect | pfft: the bad news is, its apache licensed. so there is nothing that says they should give you source to what you are running. |
| 16:00.31 | jbq | pfft: the android-1.0 tag in git is as close as you'll get. |
| 16:00.47 | ahaberlach | The good news is, Google gives you the source to most of it anyway. :) |
| 16:01.00 | jbq | Hey ahaberlach |
| 16:01.15 | pfft | jbq: and the android-1.0 tag cooresponds to which rc number? |
| 16:01.36 | Disconnect | pfft: it is sorta what went out with the g1 |
| 16:01.46 | jbq | pfft: it doesn't correspond to a specific RC, but it's close to 28 if I remember correctly. |
| 16:01.49 | Disconnect | it is not an rc. there is NO SOURE FOR EACH RC. |
| 16:01.50 | andyross | Bah. Someone needs to fix the disk drive joke. "Winchester" just refers to an air-floating head over a rotating platter. Unless the SDK works only on SSD drives, that is. |
| 16:01.50 | pfft | Disconnect: which was rc number what? |
| 16:02.10 | Disconnect | pfft: keep asking until you get the answer you like. seriously, that actually works. |
| 16:02.13 | *** join/#android tethridge (n=tale@cpe-075-177-151-223.nc.res.rr.com) |
| 16:02.15 | Disconnect | on your parents at least |
| 16:03.18 | pfft | jbq: cool! android-1.0 tag is close to rc28 ... cool finally a semi sane answer |
| 16:03.19 | jbq | pfft: the RCs of releases for individual devices typically live in private "deployment" branches maintained by or for the individual phone manufacturers. |
| 16:03.41 | pfft | jbq: thanks for the great info |
| 16:03.44 | jbq | np |
| 16:03.56 | pfft | jbq: are there any web pages that explain all this in more detail? |
| 16:04.18 | andyross | So the upshot is that there seem to have been no changes to the tools? If adb/aapt/dx/apkbuilder haven't changed, I don't think I need to grab it yet. |
| 16:05.02 | jbq | pfft: not quite at this point. the process as it has existed so far does quite match the process as we'd like it to be in the future, so if we documented what we've done it'd have very limited value, and if we documented the way we want to work it wouldn't match the current reality. |
| 16:05.34 | pfft | jbq: thanks for splaining |
| 16:05.35 | jbq | pfft: I expect that on a 6-month timeframe theory and reality will match much better, and that there'll be more documentation about that. |
| 16:07.48 | pfft | jbq: why is there such a disdain of delineating a rough equivalence between svn tags, and rc numbers? especially if some of them are pretty obvious ... like the one you mentioned? |
| 16:07.55 | SanMehat | ah crap forgot to choosecombo |
| 16:08.53 | jbq | pfft: there's no exact match. |
| 16:09.41 | jbq | pfft: at a certain point in development, individual deployment branches don't use the exact source code as the platform (because at some point you start to really cherry-pick individual bugfixes for each precise device). |
| 16:10.00 | pfft | jbq: i bet someone has been doing rough matches ... i.e. when they see some new code coming in after a repo sync ... they "know" that was for rc30, for e.g. |
| 16:10.34 | pfft | jbq: i see |
| 16:10.36 | andyross | RC30 fixed a bug in code that AFAIK isn't in git. |
| 16:10.39 | jbq | like I said, the process has been imprecise, and what you're seeing in git doesn't match closely enough to be able to compare individual RCs. |
| 16:10.55 | jbq | andyross: actually, that was pushed to git yesterday. |
| 16:11.09 | pfft | andyross: what code is not in git? do you know? |
| 16:11.16 | jbq | andyross: http://android.git.kernel.org/?p=platform/external/webkit.git;a=commit;h=db0ff3b0d66227d6946f8a613ebc3d160bea88c8 |
| 16:11.30 | SanMehat | holy crap jbq, you're a machine |
| 16:11.54 | jbq | SanMehat: lol |
| 16:12.01 | andyross | I was talking about the init stuff -- the root hole that triggered RC30. I took a quick peek and couldn't find it in the source tree, and just assumed it was G1-specific. |
| 16:12.15 | jbq | andyross: actually, it was all in git. |
| 16:12.23 | andyross | Heh, never mind then. :) |
| 16:12.57 | jbq | wait, uh... where was it? |
| 16:12.59 | pfft | jbq: it looks like almost everything is in git |
| 16:13.16 | pfft | jbq: i can find code for almost everything there ... |
| 16:13.46 | pfft | jbq: everything from the dev drivers all the way up to the dialing apps |
| 16:14.06 | jbq | pfft: yes, like I said, pretty close. The Android platform contains a lot of stuff. |
| 16:14.17 | jbq | (those 22 million lines better do *something*) |
| 16:14.33 | andyross | Everything meaningful is in git. Some hardware code is not (there are libraries to do all the interaction with the DSPs or GPU, maybe a few other proprietary bits). |
| 16:14.34 | pfft | jbq: is there stuff that is not in git? if so, how much stuff, and what is the function of that stuff? |
| 16:14.45 | pfft | jbq: he he |
| 16:14.53 | obra | pfft: opensourcing something this large is _hard_ |
| 16:15.02 | pfft | obra: agreed |
| 16:15.24 | obra | pfft: a trivial example of something not in git: the gmail client. |
| 16:15.31 | bgupta_away | Hey anyone got a git cheatsheet? (bgupta is used to svn and hg) |
| 16:15.37 | jbq | pfft: the entire platform is in there. device-specific bits may or may not be (some are, some aren't). None of the google apps are in there. |
| 16:15.53 | pfft | obra: what? what are you talking about? |
| 16:15.56 | obra | bgupta: have a look at the intro to repo and git on source.android.com |
| 16:16.02 | bgupta | k thanks |
| 16:16.04 | pfft | obra: that was the first thing i blogged about |
| 16:16.28 | obra | pfft: hm? url? |
| 16:16.49 | pfft | jbq: Oh i see ... |
| 16:17.04 | andyross | bgupta: http://letmegooglethatforyou.com/?q=git+tutorial |
| 16:17.11 | pfft | obra: oh wait ... the AndroidMail client is not the gmail client? |
| 16:17.24 | obra | pfft: no. gmail and email are different in this case. |
| 16:17.36 | pfft | obra: how obvious |
| 16:17.40 | obra | :) |
| 16:17.43 | pfft | obra: jk |
| 16:17.56 | pfft | obra: what's the difference? |
| 16:17.57 | *** join/#android Olipro (n=Olipro@uncyclopedia/Olipro) |
| 16:18.12 | jbq | Yup. Email is open-source, Gmail isn't. It'd be nice to have a plugin architecture so that they could live under the same UI (possibly with other protocols) like IM does. |
| 16:18.22 | pfft | obra: are you talking about the HUGE gmail client that compiles to run on everything from the black berry to any other j2me device? |
| 16:18.33 | obra | jbq: that'd certainly be interesting. |
| 16:18.50 | obra | is looking forward to later this weekend when we get to spend some time unforking more of K-9 |
| 16:18.53 | Disconnect | pfft: different clients. i'd love for that one to be useful on android, it lets you manage multiple accounts :) |
| 16:19.00 | jbq | andyross: the root exploit: http://android.git.kernel.org/?p=platform/system/core.git;a=blob;f=rootdir/init.rc;h=23daa0b009479f8e564edf86b259ff322fe5a870;hb=HEAD#l159 |
| 16:19.12 | jbq | (well, the hole) |
| 16:19.19 | Disconnect | jbq is a much better bot than infobot :) |
| 16:19.33 | andyross | Ah, indeed. I swear I grepped through system. But it's right there in my tree. |
| 16:19.44 | pfft | Disconnect: neither have IMAP idle do they? |
| 16:19.48 | obra | (Undoing the giant naming switch from com.android.email to com.fsck.k9) |
| 16:20.02 | obra | pfft: there's a batch floating around which starts to add IDLE support for Email.apk |
| 16:20.15 | bgupta | andyross: This is what I was looking for: http://source.android.com/download/using-repo |
| 16:20.24 | obra | pfft: jasta has been hacking on IDLE, AIUI |
| 16:20.25 | Disconnect | pfft: two forks of email right now - one purely for idle, one for "everything else" (k-9) |
| 16:20.25 | *** join/#android tech9iner (n=hacim@unaffiliated/tech9iner) |
| 16:20.41 | pfft | Disconnect: I see |
| 16:20.48 | pfft | obra: cool thanks |
| 16:20.51 | obra | Disconnect: is there a URL for the IDLE support fork? |
| 16:21.14 | Disconnect | yes but i don't have it off the top of my head :) ask infobot or jbq |
| 16:21.20 | obra | is trying to get himself out of the forked email client business ;) |
| 16:21.22 | pfft | the code base for the gmail client must be pretty big, just for itself |
| 16:21.33 | obra | infobot: idle? |
| 16:21.33 | infobot | Idle is a doodie head |
| 16:21.54 | jbq | I try to not keep track of projects outside of the main Android tree. |
| 16:22.11 | obra | sane. |
| 16:23.08 | obra | If there were a way to build a custom version of Email.apk and install it locally, I'd never have forked K-9 off. I'm hoping that a reasonable solution to that issue comes along |
| 16:23.13 | pfft | jbq: do you think the gmail team did the AndroidMail client? |
| 16:23.43 | jbq | AndroidMail? |
| 16:23.44 | pfft | wife is calling ... gotta go ... grrr |
| 16:23.58 | jbq | ah, wives... ;-) |
| 16:24.17 | pfft | jbq: mydroid/packages/apps/Email |
| 16:24.44 | jbq | pfft: that was done by a different team (at the time), though now Gmail and Email are maintained by different people in the same team. |
| 16:24.53 | pfft | jbq: thanks |
| 16:25.27 | pfft | jbq: so they go rid of the contractors that did Email? |
| 16:25.35 | pfft | jbq: he he |
| 16:25.50 | pfft | jbq: they prob just move on to other projects |
| 16:25.54 | Disconnect | romainguy_: i think it was you i was tlaking to about alternative partitioning.. i just had a thought that allows replacing system apps -and- falling back to factory: overlay mounts. |
| 16:25.55 | jbq | pfft: it's so complex that I couldn't accurately describe it. |
| 16:26.09 | pfft | jbq: thanks for trying :-) |
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| 16:30.00 | mikey| | wanders why all the vars in the android src start with 'm' |
| 16:30.19 | SanMehat | member |
| 16:30.51 | mikey| | i see |
| 16:31.17 | *** join/#android poetic_folly|G5 (n=poetic_f@213-39.103-97.tampabay.res.rr.com) |
| 16:32.55 | *** join/#android Olipro (n=Olipro@uncyclopedia/Olipro) |
| 16:34.05 | obra | mikey|: http://source.android.com/submit-patches/code-style-guide |
| 16:36.54 | Disconnect | btw for kernel module builders, I posted a quick howto: http://www.gotontheinter.net/node/4 (requires root of course) |
| 16:37.16 | SanMehat | nice |
| 16:37.27 | Disconnect | doh. stupid drupal didn't publish it. fixed :) |
| 16:38.17 | tech9iner | supposes there is still no succinct how-to or applications or ?? way to fully backup all g1 data perchance? |
| 16:38.45 | Disconnect | tech9iner: get root. install busybox. cd /data. busybox tar cvzf /sdcard/backup.tgz . |
| 16:39.00 | tech9iner | Disconnect; stupid drupal ? lol.. not a fan? |
| 16:39.10 | tech9iner | Disconnect; mk.. fair enough mate.. |
| 16:39.21 | tech9iner | Disconnect; rooting rc30 available yet? |
| 16:39.25 | Disconnect | succinct and how-to, but not an application :) |
| 16:39.42 | tech9iner | indeed & truly succinct AND appreciated Disconnect ;]] |
| 16:39.50 | bgupta | Is there any documentation available for the A.D.D. 1? Also, does anyone know when they are shipping? |
| 16:40.15 | tech9iner | saves <Disconnect> tech9iner: get root. install busybox. cd /data. busybox tar cvzf /sdcard/backup.tgz . for later ;]] |
| 16:40.36 | Disconnect | there is an app that saves contacts and some other stuff but there is not (and can never be) a general "back up all app data and prefs" app. (platform could add a "give me data to be backed up" and/or "here is data from a restore" call to apps, but with the current disaster of a security policy it will never exist without application support) |
| 16:41.03 | Disconnect | rather, a general tool will never exist that can work without the application participating |
| 16:41.17 | tech9iner | secuity | disasterous ? hmmm.. |
| 16:41.59 | tech9iner | google's never quite been way out ahead of security in general though aye?.. least not on their free offerings ie gmail |
| 16:42.12 | Disconnect | tech9iner: they reinvented the wheel a LOT. (selinux, only without selinux. with selinux even the root hole wouldn't have mattered) |
| 16:42.21 | tech9iner | lol |
| 16:42.34 | tech9iner | answers that question then disc lol |
| 16:42.56 | Disconnect | seriously (and all snarkiness aside) thinks this security policy was invented by a developer on a napkin and carried through by force of personality rather than technical merit. |
| 16:43.24 | Disconnect | but neat stuff coming: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e2yWDvcWu6I |
| 16:43.25 | SanMehat | what security policy? |
| 16:43.30 | Disconnect | android security policy. |
| 16:43.52 | SanMehat | what the uid/gid thing? |
| 16:43.53 | Disconnect | http://code.google.com/android/devel/security.html |
| 16:43.55 | Disconnect | yah |
| 16:43.59 | SanMehat | whats wrong with it? |
| 16:44.02 | tech9iner | Disconnect; my fleet services clients dont typically have state secrets involved so ive never sweated security more than end user abilities support anyway.. right up until i win contracts to repair Air Force One fleet.. not too worried hehe |
| 16:44.29 | SanMehat | you know... forget i asked.. |
| 16:44.33 | Disconnect | SanMehat: ..everything? :) do you really want to go down the list (and how - from the "users expect X but it can't be done" perspective or from the "here is where it is weak" perspective?) |
| 16:44.38 | bgupta | Disconnect: Is that video showing a Sharp Zaurus running android? |
| 16:44.44 | SanMehat | Disconnect: not really |
| 16:44.44 | tech9iner | Disconnect; lmao.. jolly good 'non snarky' line hehe |
| 16:44.45 | Disconnect | yes. 2 bonuses in there. |
| 16:46.16 | Disconnect | SanMehat: overall the biggest weakness in android right now is the insistence on reinventing the wheel for no valid reason. (the biggest ones are toolkit instead of busybox, uid/gid instead of selinux, bionic instead of uclibc) |
| 16:46.43 | SanMehat | if you say so |
| 16:47.19 | Disconnect | how long will it take you to write a dhcpd for PAN? cuz i can add one to busybox in about 12 seconds. (and its already tested upstream) |
| 16:47.35 | SanMehat | whats the uclibc license? |
| 16:47.48 | Disconnect | lgpl i believe. checking. |
| 16:47.59 | SanMehat | it would need to be BSD or one of those. |
| 16:47.59 | bgupta | Yes it is lgpl... |
| 16:48.19 | SanMehat | plus i thought bionic was a lot smaller. |
| 16:48.23 | Disconnect | http://cvs.sourceforge.jp/cgi-bin/viewcvs.cgi/uclinux-h8/uClibc/docs/uclibc.org/FAQ.html?rev=1.1.1.2 " If I use uClibc, do I have to release all my source code to the world for free? I want to create a closed source commercial application and I want to protect my intellectual property. ""No"etc |
| 16:48.42 | SanMehat | as for uid/gid vs selinux. That decision predates me, but i'm fine with whats in place now. |
| 16:49.09 | Disconnect | note that you can even static-link, if you offer (eg platform-sdk) bins that can be relinked to newer uclibc (no need to offer source, readble or otherwise, to your app. just relinking capability) |
| 16:49.29 | SanMehat | Disconnect: you'd need to talk with one of the bionic guys to get some perspective on why we went that route. |
| 16:49.57 | SanMehat | if i remember next week i'll ask someone |
| 16:51.01 | SanMehat | i would suggest getting the entire story before dismissing components as existing 'for no good reason' |
| 16:51.05 | SanMehat | but hey its the internets! |
| 16:51.18 | SanMehat | bbl |
| 16:51.27 | Disconnect | SanMehat: the platform is covered in NotInventedHere.. |
| 16:51.43 | Disconnect | but i'd love to hear about toolkit vs busybox. |
| 16:52.16 | SanMehat | bleh |
| 16:52.17 | SanMehat | whatever |
| 16:52.18 | SanMehat | :) |
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| 16:53.32 | SanMehat | its your right to think its nih :) |
| 16:54.10 | SanMehat | but i haven't seen any re-inventing of the wheel 'just because' in any areas that i've worked with |
| 16:54.14 | SanMehat | *shrug* |
| 16:54.20 | SanMehat | taking dog to vet.. have a nice day :) |
| 16:54.25 | Disconnect | so far nobody has come up with any answers other than "you weren't here" .. its a valid technical question. |
| 16:55.51 | Disconnect | looking (on the device) most of /system/bin (1.8M) could be replaced with busybox - a static-uclibc build with everything is 1.7 megs. (relatively huge, but again, that includes a libc and -everything-. stripped down bionic version would certainly save space -and- give nice upstream dev and testing) |
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| 17:05.34 | tech9iner | hmmm.. very interesting.. mate here offered up http://bicellphone.com/phone/gphone/t-zones-hack-for-g1-android-forums-g-phone-forums when i was inquiring about best website to monitor for root exploit for my g1's rc30 .. and avast detected a trojan attempt upon loading site 1st time.. hmmmmmm.. |
| 17:06.05 | tech9iner | checks logs for wtf mate provided said site.. |
| 17:06.21 | RyeBrye | Anyone else see that article on Digg / Forbes today that mentioned how Android was ported to a garage door opener? |
| 17:06.31 | RyeBrye | that guy OBVIOUSLY knows his ass from a hole in the ground |
| 17:06.44 | mikey| | today? that was news ages ago |
| 17:06.55 | mikey| | the one were he drives his bike up to his house? |
| 17:07.00 | mikey| | where * |
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| 17:07.08 | obra | RyeBrye: brad? it's |
| 17:07.23 | RyeBrye | well... the having an android phone send an HTTP request to a webserver that triggers a relay to OPEN a garage door opener is a LOT different from "porting android" to a garage door opener |
| 17:07.31 | obra | RyeBrye: brad? it's basically the same hack he had on previous phones |
| 17:07.49 | obra | Just with a cleverer proximity sensor |
| 17:07.51 | mikey| | link to article forbes please? |
| 17:07.55 | mikey| | article * |
| 17:07.58 | mikey| | >.< |
| 17:08.01 | RyeBrye | http://www.forbes.com/2008/12/05/google-operating-system-tech-enter-cx_ew_1205google.html?feed=rss_news |
| 17:08.02 | mikey| | is tired |
| 17:08.57 | RyeBrye | It's about how they think Google is preparing a secret OS because they strip OS info from some traffic. Then again, this guy doesn't really know what an OS is because he mentions X11 as being an OS, and later he talks about an OS running on a push-button device (android on the garage door opener) |
| 17:09.12 | *** join/#android xtt (n=xtt@93-96-143-204.zone4.bethere.co.uk) |
| 17:09.31 | RyeBrye | "Android has officially debuted on just one product, the T-Mobile G1 cellphone. But fans and tinkerers have already ported it to devices ranging from Nokia's (nyse: NOK - news - people ) Internet tablet to a garage door opener." |
| 17:09.36 | obra | "Mainstream Journalist Gets Facts Wrong About Technology! Film at 11" |
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| 17:14.15 | mikey| | "P2P consultation - FOI (Freedom of information Act) request" |
| 17:14.16 | mikey| | hmm |
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| 17:14.44 | mikey| | some journalist wants all the responses |
| 17:17.56 | KNY | haha, someone has Android running on a garage door opener? well done, uber-hacker |
| 17:18.29 | makghosh | hi! i have one problem while providing the android-sdk path in eclipse as given here http://pastie.org/332699 |
| 17:18.59 | makghosh | can anybody help about whats' going wrong? |
| 17:20.27 | mikey| | have you upgraded adt via the eclipse interface makghosh ? |
| 17:20.43 | makghosh | mikey|: yup! |
| 17:20.55 | mikey| | hmm..not sure then |
| 17:21.21 | mikey| | wait, are you using sdk r1? r2 is out |
| 17:21.57 | makghosh | the path /opt/android-sdk-linux_x86-1.0_r1/tools/lib/res//default/values/attrs.xml is kinda wierd actually...it can never parse anything that way |
| 17:23.05 | KNY | is it intentional that you have two slashes? It shouldn't matter, but you never know |
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| 17:24.41 | makghosh | mikey|: i think you're right, because http://code.google.com/android/adt_download.html says 0.8.0 still works on r1 but eclipse updates is giving the latest build as i see |
| 17:25.38 | makghosh | KNY: nopes '//' was there in the parse error message, which appeared wier, i think r2 will do the job |
| 17:25.53 | makghosh | s/weird |
| 17:26.11 | makghosh | thanks :) |
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| 17:56.21 | zhobbs | is this old news? http://gizmodo.com/5103402/sim+-and-hardware+unlocked-g1-available-to-developers-or-you-for-400 |
| 17:56.35 | ahaberlach | About 12 hours old... |
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| 17:58.38 | Disconnect | we'd put it in the topic but.. meh |
| 17:59.10 | Disconnect | lol its not even on source.android.com |
| 17:59.16 | Disconnect | 1 news item "look there is source" |
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| 17:59.38 | brocktice | Ordered my dev phone. |
| 17:59.56 | brocktice | Wife wanted a G1 but her contract wasn't up for a new device till March, so she gets mine. |
| 18:01.04 | Disconnect | <PROTECTED> |
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| 18:08.55 | gfindster_dev | hi all |
| 18:18.39 | mikey| | is there any way to intercept key presses when menu + combination is pressed? like menu + 1 = jump to window one, etc |
| 18:19.09 | wastrel | /win/win 9 |
| 18:19.21 | Disconnect | <PROTECTED> |
| 18:20.03 | wastrel | i did a bad job |
| 18:22.20 | zhobbs | those development phones have a zune-ish design on the back |
| 18:22.23 | zhobbs | looks pretty cool though |
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| 18:23.46 | alexissoft | hi |
| 18:24.34 | muthu_ | zhobbs: yeah, the dev phones look cool |
| 18:24.52 | muthu_ | if only i can ship them to india for cheap! |
| 18:25.04 | zhobbs | muthu_: how much they want for shipping? |
| 18:25.12 | muthu_ | 225$ to india |
| 18:25.44 | zhobbs | ouch, that's crazy |
| 18:26.06 | muthu_ | who do the americans get everything for free? ^-^ |
| 18:26.49 | muthu_ | canada, seems to be the high shipping cost |
| 18:26.54 | muthu_ | japan is the lowest |
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| 18:27.48 | d0netsFN | wtf |
| 18:27.50 | d0netsFN | 225 to india? |
| 18:28.20 | muthu_ | yep, 280 for canada |
| 18:28.27 | d0netsFN | ... |
| 18:28.31 | d0netsFN | pinches himself |
| 18:28.38 | alexissoft | yes ... the shipping prices are insane. |
| 18:28.51 | d0netsFN | why more to canada than india |
| 18:29.16 | zhobbs | yeah, that's crazy...free to US and $280 to Canada |
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| 18:40.17 | SanMehat | the shipping prices include local taxes and import duties i believe |
| 18:40.36 | SanMehat | i think they're going to update the store to be clearer about that this weekend |
| 18:40.58 | SanMehat | actually i *know* the shipping prices include the import duties and local taxes for the receiving country |
| 18:41.04 | d0netsFN | sanmehat it better include more than that |
| 18:41.27 | SanMehat | d0netsFN: ? |
| 18:41.37 | d0netsFN | for 280 to ship from us to canada? |
| 18:41.48 | JuanDaugherty | what are the quantities shipped? |
| 18:41.49 | luok | hm would this thing work on any 3g network? |
| 18:41.49 | SanMehat | you ever tried to import a carton of smokes to canada? |
| 18:41.53 | d0netsFN | i ship stuff all the time to canada and its hardly more than shipping inside the US |
| 18:42.04 | d0netsFN | sanmehat i go to whistler every year |
| 18:42.08 | d0netsFN | and we take a carton in our suitcase |
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| 18:42.22 | SanMehat | d0netsFN: yeah but have you ever had to *pay* the duty on it? |
| 18:42.23 | SanMehat | i once did |
| 18:42.32 | SanMehat | i brought 2 cartons.. and had to declare 1 |
| 18:42.32 | d0netsFN | i dont think so |
| 18:42.37 | JuanDaugherty | CA-US is a special case. |
| 18:43.11 | SanMehat | in any event, my understanding is they're going to update the site to be clearer on the shipping costs |
| 18:43.57 | d0netsFN | if they want to be totally clear they should say "we are raping you on shipping cost" |
| 18:44.02 | SanMehat | i'm not aware of each countries import duties |
| 18:44.15 | d0netsFN | well if anyone wants one |
| 18:44.24 | tomh | mm that phone is 580 usd for me :( |
| 18:44.27 | d0netsFN | pm me and i will order it and charge 20$ over actual cost to ship it |
| 18:44.38 | romainguy_ | d0netsFN: sure |
| 18:44.40 | romainguy_ | but |
| 18:44.45 | romainguy_ | if the customs inspect the package |
| 18:44.47 | tomh | then customs will intercept it |
| 18:44.50 | romainguy_ | you'll have to pay for the taxes |
| 18:44.55 | zhobbs | you could almost have a good business plan buying them in the US and then reselling to other countries |
| 18:44.57 | romainguy_ | well not you but the recipient |
| 18:45.08 | romainguy_ | zhobbs: and you still need to pay for import duties |
| 18:45.27 | zhobbs | romainguy_: not $280 to canada |
| 18:45.32 | SanMehat | FYI: electronic device import duties to canada from the US which are not covered under NAFTA get raped |
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| 18:45.57 | SanMehat | anyways, i'm not a sales droid |
| 18:45.59 | SanMehat | i'm an eng droid |
| 18:46.10 | d0netsFN | yea 280 to canada is reduculous |
| 18:46.14 | d0netsFN | someone give me a canadian zipcode |
| 18:46.21 | SanMehat | V3S 4N7 |
| 18:46.22 | d0netsFN | joins #canada |
| 18:46.25 | zhobbs | I've shipped a $2,000 electronic device, legally, to canada for $60 |
| 18:46.37 | SanMehat | was it covered under NAFTA? |
| 18:46.46 | SanMehat | i dont know if mobile devices are. |
| 18:46.48 | zhobbs | not sure |
| 18:47.03 | d0netsFN | i shipped an mr2 (a car) to canada for like 700 |
| 18:47.05 | SanMehat | anyways, go talk to one of those import duties |
| 18:47.10 | SanMehat | d0netsFN: that doesn't mean shit. |
| 18:47.15 | RyeBrye | Too bad there is that 1 phone / dev account limit |
| 18:47.17 | SanMehat | when i imported my US car to canada i paid 400 |
| 18:47.29 | romainguy_ | RyeBrye: well 1 dev, 1 phone :) |
| 18:47.35 | d0netsFN | exactly, not why the hell is a 400$ phone almost that much |
| 18:47.44 | SanMehat | because cars are not phones |
| 18:47.50 | SanMehat | and the car was over 3 years old |
| 18:47.50 | RyeBrye | romainguy_: I have 2 hands though! ;) |
| 18:48.12 | SanMehat | don't blame me if import duties are retarded |
| 18:48.13 | RyeBrye | romainguy_: what if I have multiple personality disorder? 5 devs, 1 person, 1 phone? We're going to be constantly fighting over it |
| 18:48.14 | RyeBrye | no we wont |
| 18:48.14 | SanMehat | i dont make the rules |
| 18:48.24 | romainguy_ | SanMehat: I wonder how it works to sell those in other countries; the radio is approved by the FCC here so... |
| 18:48.31 | SanMehat | go write to Canadian Customs |
| 18:48.52 | romainguy_ | and $399 for a phone with that hardware and completely unlocked is a really sweet deal :)) |
| 18:48.56 | d0netsFN | ups world wide saver for 80 bucks |
| 18:48.57 | d0netsFN | on ups.com |
| 18:49.10 | romainguy_ | that's shipping |
| 18:49.13 | romainguy_ | not import duties |
| 18:49.13 | SanMehat | thats shipping |
| 18:49.16 | SanMehat | not import duties |
| 18:49.20 | romainguy_ | you ship it for $80 |
| 18:49.22 | romainguy_ | the customs intercept it |
| 18:49.28 | romainguy_ | and you get a nice bill in your mailbox |
| 18:49.29 | SanMehat | then you get a call from a customs broker |
| 18:49.35 | romainguy_ | knows from experience :)) |
| 18:49.39 | SanMehat | they call you and say 'if you want t his to go through you gotta pay another $200' |
| 18:49.44 | romainguy_ | oh and when customs intercept it, they keep it for a while :)) |
| 18:49.58 | SanMehat | yeah |
| 18:50.00 | SanMehat | a long while |
| 18:50.13 | romainguy_ | I paid about 90 euros on my 200 euros PSP when I imported from Japan to France for instance |
| 18:50.16 | SanMehat | d0netsFN: contact a customs broker. They can explain this to you. |
| 18:51.00 | d0netsFN | ok |
| 18:51.02 | d0netsFN | someone buy 10 |
| 18:51.07 | d0netsFN | drive to canadia |
| 18:51.12 | d0netsFN | and ship them from there |
| 18:51.17 | RyeBrye | can only buy 1 though |
| 18:51.30 | d0netsFN | per person |
| 18:51.50 | d0netsFN | go buy 10 different visa gift cards |
| 18:51.56 | d0netsFN | and use different names for each order |
| 18:52.33 | zhobbs | sounds like a lot of work |
| 18:52.37 | RyeBrye | Google knows who you are. They will hunt you down with their cloaked useragents and beat you into submission |
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| 18:55.15 | SanMehat | d0netsFN: http://www.thefinalcost.com/shipments/calculate/ |
| 18:55.35 | SanMehat | put in 399 and 80 for shipping and see what goes into it |
| 18:56.39 | SanMehat | via UPS: shipping ($103) + Duty ($31) + GST ($39) + Brokerage ($56) + Disbursment ($6) |
| 18:56.43 | zhobbs | yeah, $200 total cost |
| 18:56.53 | d0netsFN | wtf |
| 18:57.01 | d0netsFN | throws his chair |
| 18:57.03 | d0netsFN | this is robbery |
| 18:57.14 | SanMehat | yeah.. but not by us :| |
| 18:57.30 | SanMehat | you can click on each ? and they'll explain what the costs are |
| 18:58.01 | RyeBrye | I'm sure the robbery is not googles fault |
| 18:58.10 | mikey| | google should do everyone a favor and ship it to their offices and then send it out using a local delivery service |
| 18:58.11 | RyeBrye | greedy governments |
| 18:58.18 | romainguy_ | at least the device ships to 18 countries |
| 18:58.22 | mikey| | offices in places where orders have come from |
| 18:58.27 | romainguy_ | try to buy electronics from Amazon and ship it to Europe... |
| 18:58.27 | SanMehat | mikey|: thats illegal, and i believe would count as smuggling |
| 18:58.34 | mikey| | lol, really? |
| 18:58.35 | luok | would still have to go through customs i'm sure |
| 18:58.37 | SanMehat | yup |
| 18:58.40 | mikey| | haha |
| 18:58.41 | SanMehat | at least in canada it would be for sure |
| 18:58.48 | mikey| | adds that to his do not try list |
| 18:58.56 | romainguy_ | mikey|: there are also laws on how many devices with radios you can import in the US without being in trouble |
| 18:59.13 | luok | the whole point is protectionism so that canadian companies can make their own g1..haha |
| 18:59.13 | romainguy_ | (that caused delays to get the Android's team devices in :) |
| 18:59.19 | zhobbs | I would think a lot of companies have distribution centers in other countries, they don't pay $200 in taxes to bring a US product into their distribution center |
| 18:59.32 | zhobbs | (a $400 product) |
| 18:59.50 | SanMehat | i'm not into imports / exports |
| 18:59.51 | luok | zhobbs: they'd probably have to manufacture it there |
| 18:59.57 | luok | i dunno |
| 19:00.00 | SanMehat | i only know what i know from having had to ship crap back and forth and paid through the nose for it |
| 19:00.05 | romainguy_ | zhobbs: remember this is a device for developers |
| 19:00.07 | romainguy_ | small batches |
| 19:00.12 | romainguy_ | not widespread distributions |
| 19:00.21 | romainguy_ | it's not the same as channeling through T-Mobile |
| 19:00.21 | RyeBrye | is glad that we have found something else to bitch about - bitching about root / locked-down phones was getting old :) |
| 19:00.22 | zhobbs | romainguy_: yeah, I understand it's not worth google's effort for this product... |
| 19:00.35 | romainguy_ | and Google does not sell phones :) |
| 19:00.42 | zhobbs | just saying that for the G1 for example, they aren't paying that much in import taxes |
| 19:01.02 | xsdg | zhobbs: you don't really know what T-mobile is paying for the phones |
| 19:01.26 | SanMehat | anyways.. back to coding |
| 19:01.27 | SanMehat | peas. |
| 19:01.49 | xsdg | zhobbs: just because the customer doesn't see the cost enumerated doesn't mean that T-mobile isn't paying for it |
| 19:02.47 | xsdg | zhobbs: also, since they pretty much do this for a living, they've probably figured out ways to keep those costs down as much as possible |
| 19:02.53 | d0netsFN | ok so if you ship like 100 of them |
| 19:02.57 | d0netsFN | you still pay the same amount or twat |
| 19:05.58 | luok | hehe it is reduced by whatever the income taxes would be on the profits i bet |
| 19:06.06 | *** join/#android nealmcb1 (n=neal@216.239.45.19) |
| 19:08.09 | RyeBrye | I want to see people working on proper multitouch support on these Dev devices - even if they don't "officially" have such hardware :P |
| 19:09.53 | *** join/#android jaypur (n=Jaypur@189.25.83.95) |
| 19:11.32 | jaypur | does android support all my hardware cellphone capability? |
| 19:11.38 | *** join/#android kirberich (n=maria@p5486AFB8.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 19:11.46 | jaypur | like my cellphone camera? |
| 19:12.22 | kirberich | hey, I heard international shipment of the dev phone is very expensive, can someone specify that? |
| 19:13.47 | offby1 | ask DHL |
| 19:14.52 | zhobbs | jaypur: if you have a t-mobile g1 then yes |
| 19:15.42 | zhobbs | jaypur: otherwise simply port linux to your phone and write device drivers for all the hardware and then port the android platform to your phone |
| 19:16.38 | jaypur | hmm |
| 19:16.39 | jaypur | got it |
| 19:16.50 | jaypur | and how do i duall boot android and other system??? |
| 19:17.55 | pjv | yeah, can anyone reveal the internatinal shipment prices that are listed for germany, france, netherlands,...? |
| 19:18.53 | tomh | sure |
| 19:19.09 | tomh | for the android phone i assume? |
| 19:19.19 | pjv | the dev phone 1 yes |
| 19:19.29 | *** join/#android Kraln (n=quassel@38.100.42.251) |
| 19:20.06 | tomh | around 180 euro |
| 19:20.51 | pjv | thanks, thats for Western-Europe? |
| 19:21.07 | tomh | yes, .nl, .de, .fr |
| 19:21.21 | tomh | i mean 180 usd |
| 19:21.23 | tomh | not euro |
| 19:21.34 | pjv | ok thats a bit better :-) |
| 19:21.36 | ivantis | how are all these huge companies reacting to the G1/Android? you cant introduce something "open source" to a regular user and not have them freak out |
| 19:23.48 | *** join/#android jbq (n=jbq@72.14.224.1) |
| 19:23.52 | kirberich | tomh: thanks for the numbers :) |
| 19:24.21 | tomh | np |
| 19:24.37 | kirberich | tomh: that's just shipping though, right? so the german customs will charge another 80 euros or so salestax |
| 19:24.46 | tomh | all inclusive |
| 19:25.01 | kirberich | wow, that's good news. |
| 19:25.29 | *** join/#android Kraln (n=quassel@38.100.42.251) |
| 19:25.36 | tomh | "For Orders shipping outside the US, shipping pricing includes cost of shipping service and the applicable customs, duties, import and country specific other fees." |
| 19:25.44 | d0netsFN | http://www.evilmilk.com/pictures/Iphone_And_Stone.jpg |
| 19:25.47 | d0netsFN | i lold |
| 19:26.09 | tomh | heh |
| 19:26.56 | xsdg | d0netsFN: the stone also has multi-touch |
| 19:27.19 | *** join/#android TiberiumX (n=alex@cpe-76-186-234-116.tx.res.rr.com) |
| 19:28.25 | tomh | stone is also rock solid |
| 19:28.28 | tomh | iphone not ;p |
| 19:28.50 | kirberich | tomh: So now I'm only wondering if the dev phone shipment might get cheaper once the g1 is released in germany |
| 19:28.53 | luok | heh i like the one with the macbook air and c64 better |
| 19:28.59 | d0netsFN | lol tomh |
| 19:29.14 | tomh | kirberich: don't bet on it though |
| 19:29.25 | xsdg | kirberich: I couldn't see why. The dev phone is not related to the G1 other than being the same hardware |
| 19:29.31 | kirberich | true |
| 19:29.49 | kirberich | I guess I'll just have to cough up the 580 bucks then ;) |
| 19:29.56 | kirberich | tomh: you ordered a dev phone? |
| 19:29.57 | ttuttle | 580?! |
| 19:30.01 | tomh | no |
| 19:30.02 | kirberich | 400 + 180 |
| 19:30.03 | ttuttle | jeez, that's absurd. |
| 19:30.11 | tomh | 580 usd |
| 19:30.14 | tomh | thats like 450 euro |
| 19:30.17 | kirberich | yeah |
| 19:30.19 | tomh | iphone costs 525 |
| 19:30.25 | jbq | ttuttle: import taxes on electronics can be very hefty in many parts of the world. |
| 19:30.30 | ttuttle | why doeesn't google ship a few to each office abroad and then sghip them from there. |
| 19:30.35 | ttuttle | jbq: ah. why? |
| 19:30.40 | kirberich | jbq: they are 20 percent in this case |
| 19:30.57 | jbq | ttuttle: because those countries have high taxes! |
| 19:30.59 | kirberich | there's no import tax on cell phones, but you have to pay salex tax |
| 19:31.03 | tomh | i think you can get some import duties back if you are a company in the EU |
| 19:31.13 | xsdg | tomh: to quote san from earlier |
| 19:31.14 | xsdg | 13:58:27 <@SanMehat> mikey|: thats illegal, and i believe would count as smuggling |
| 19:31.33 | kirberich | tomh: you may have a point there |
| 19:31.33 | xsdg | err... ttuttle: ^^^ |
| 19:31.38 | ttuttle | xsdg: yeah I know. |
| 19:31.46 | kirberich | oh, and it's 605 of course. |
| 19:31.46 | d0netsFN | hardcore, smugglin phones |
| 19:31.48 | tomh | at least the VAT is something we can ask back |
| 19:31.53 | kirberich | still have to register for the market |
| 19:31.55 | tomh | which is 20% |
| 19:32.13 | tomh | so thats 450 euro - 90 |
| 19:32.17 | tomh | 360 euro |
| 19:32.20 | jbq | ttuttle: you can't expect the money to pay for what those countries offer to their residents to come out of thin air. |
| 19:32.20 | tomh | not bad? |
| 19:32.52 | kirberich | tomh: seems almost reasonable ;) |
| 19:33.04 | tomh | ye |
| 19:33.15 | tomh | for an unlocked phone pretty good |
| 19:33.18 | tomh | too bad no gps right |
| 19:33.23 | kirberich | hu? |
| 19:33.41 | kirberich | why no gps? |
| 19:33.47 | RyeBrye | I'm pretty sure it has GPS |
| 19:34.23 | tomh | isnt listed in the features.. |
| 19:34.31 | RyeBrye | It would probably cost them more to remove it and set up a new production run than it would to just leave it in |
| 19:34.39 | kirberich | well it's identical to the g1 I thought? |
| 19:34.48 | ttuttle | Why would they remove it? |
| 19:34.49 | jbq | Might have been forgotten on the lis. I'll relay the information "inside" to confirm it. |
| 19:34.55 | jbq | s/lis/list/ |
| 19:35.27 | waldo_ | new sdk! |
| 19:35.32 | waldo_ | but I guess that's in the topic :) |
| 19:35.44 | tomh | jbq: you heard from inside sources it has gps? |
| 19:36.00 | RyeBrye | while you are at it - some other hardware features that aren't being used include: pedometer and a thermometer (also on that accelerometer / compass chip) - since these are "dev phones" maybe "devs" might be interested in these features they could somehow get working :) |
| 19:36.04 | jbq | tomh: no, but I'm passing the question to the people who'd know. |
| 19:36.13 | tomh | ok |
| 19:36.19 | tomh | let me know :) |
| 19:36.20 | jbq | I'd be very surprised and disappointed if it wasn't there. |
| 19:36.24 | ttuttle | Ooh, a thermometer? That'd be cool. |
| 19:36.24 | kirberich | I would be seriously confused if the dev phone didn't have gps |
| 19:36.35 | kirberich | that just wouldn't make _any_ sense at all |
| 19:36.42 | ttuttle | RyeBrye: What makes the pedometer different from the accelerometer. |
| 19:37.14 | ttuttle | s/./?/ |
| 19:37.17 | RyeBrye | ttuttle: I have no clue - except that it has easy methods to get number of steps and reset number of steps? probably uses less energy to rely on it to track that crap itself than for you to poll the sensor and figure out when steps are taken in software |
| 19:37.18 | offby1 | wants a baconometer |
| 19:37.19 | SanMehat | isn't a pedometer something you can make out of an accelerometer? |
| 19:37.24 | RyeBrye | Yeah, it is |
| 19:37.26 | ttuttle | RyeBrye: ah |
| 19:37.28 | SanMehat | offby1: mmmmm |
| 19:37.29 | ttuttle | o |
| 19:37.29 | RyeBrye | Which is proabbly why it's not been used :) |
| 19:37.31 | ttuttle | er |
| 19:37.42 | ttuttle | wants an awesomeometer. |
| 19:37.52 | jbq | ttuttle: pedometer can be done with a lot less precision (and therefore a lot less power) than an accelerometer. |
| 19:37.58 | ttuttle | jbq: ah |
| 19:38.05 | luok | wait there's a thermometer? |
| 19:38.26 | ttuttle | luok: apparently |
| 19:38.58 | luok | no api tho huh |
| 19:39.04 | jaypur | how do i install android in my phone???? |
| 19:39.19 | offby1 | I don't know!!!! |
| 19:39.49 | ivantis | how do you install android? |
| 19:39.53 | jaypur | yes |
| 19:39.54 | ivantis | doesnt it come with it? |
| 19:39.58 | jaypur | nope |
| 19:40.08 | ivantis | what phone? G1? |
| 19:40.18 | jaypur | its a n95 |
| 19:40.26 | ivantis | o |
| 19:40.29 | ttuttle | jaypur: Um, that's not supported. |
| 19:40.33 | ivantis | idk, i dont even have a g1 |
| 19:40.38 | ttuttle | jaypur: Perhaps Google for it? |
| 19:40.43 | jaypur | yeah im looking here, no one could install |
| 19:40.55 | jaypur | just some videos... but maybe it is fake |
| 19:40.58 | ttuttle | jaypur: Then it's likely not possible yet. |
| 19:41.05 | RyeBrye | http://android.git.kernel.org/?p=kernel/msm.git;a=blob;f=drivers/i2c/chips/akm8976.c;h=8c03165bccfd7a9b4efa79648d21cb9750ed40a1;hb=aa5b407d67cd4b665955453388d2a02930ba1643#l372 see line#399 and line #413 |
| 19:41.11 | RyeBrye | (the thermometer and the "step count" stuff) |
| 19:41.22 | jaypur | what i can understand is, n95 has a lot of aplications, so why should i change for android??? |
| 19:41.41 | ttuttle | jaypur: Nobody said you had to. |
| 19:41.49 | jaypur | ttuttle, i know... |
| 19:41.56 | jaypur | but i wanna know why should i? |
| 19:42.05 | RyeBrye | jaypur: "how do i install android in my phone????" then you say: "jaypur: what i can understand is, n95 has a lot of aplications, so why should i change for android???" |
| 19:42.10 | jaypur | i know it is open source, that is great, and in the future it will be greater |
| 19:42.16 | RyeBrye | How do I install mutant killer alien brain in my child?!? |
| 19:42.24 | luok | jaypur: http://android-freak.org/blog1.php/2008/08/31/nokia-n95-vs-htc-g1-dream-is-iit-time-to-2 |
| 19:42.26 | RyeBrye | Wait, why woudl I want to install mutant killer alien brain in my child?!? |
| 19:42.35 | ttuttle | RyeBrye: First, find the JTAG interface... |
| 19:42.56 | RyeBrye | I might write a simple C program to see what that temp sensor reports |
| 19:43.29 | ttuttle | RyeBrye: I'm curious if it's placed such that it reasonably measures ambient temperature. |
| 19:43.44 | RyeBrye | Also, doesn't the acceleromter just give X/Y/Z now? what's the 4th one on both the compass and the acceleromter - is that used? RUDDER and WHEEL ? |
| 19:44.20 | ttuttle | RyeBrye: accelerometer gives rotation and translation in 3d = 6d total. |
| 19:44.28 | RyeBrye | Oh, cool |
| 19:44.58 | jbq | RyeBrye: I suggest that you don't spend too much time on the current sensor code. The next code drop will have a lot of new code in that area. |
| 19:45.15 | jbq | Actually, the accelerometer doesn't measure rotations, only translations. |
| 19:45.39 | jbq | but there's also the 3d compass, which. |
| 19:45.54 | ivantis | the cheapest plan for the G1 is $54.98 monthly> |
| 19:45.55 | ivantis | ؟ |
| 19:46.00 | RyeBrye | jbq: That's cool. you mean the platform code or the kernel code? I'm looking at the stuff in the 2.6.27 branch which is going to be part of the next big code drop, I presume? |
| 19:46.20 | jbq | RyeBrye: I'm talking about the platform code. |
| 19:46.32 | *** join/#android [1]p0lar (n=p0lar@216.83.137.69) |
| 19:46.55 | RyeBrye | jbq: ok, that makes sense. I'm mostly interested in seeing what is available at the sensor level in the hardware - I wont bother building up platform pieces that are already likely built |
| 19:47.07 | jaypur | luok, reading it.... |
| 19:47.22 | jbq | RyeBrye: ok. I don't expect changes on the driver side. |
| 19:48.39 | jaypur | luok, nice text.... |
| 19:49.07 | luok | thank google |
| 19:49.18 | RyeBrye | http://techon.nikkeibp.co.jp/english/NEWS_EN/20081028/160267/?SS=imgview_e&FD=1012555049&ad_q It looks like the sensor is right next to the power button - and I doubt that placement will let it get good temp readings of ambient air if it is charging |
| 19:49.52 | luok | would be fun anyway |
| 19:49.55 | RyeBrye | http://techon.nikkeibp.co.jp/english/NEWS_EN/20081028/160267/?SS=imgview_e&FD=1010708007&ad_q shows the context of that one |
| 19:50.09 | RyeBrye | Yeah, but I bet it would be able to tell the difference between freezing and 90 degrees F |
| 19:50.15 | RyeBrye | would hope at least |
| 19:50.39 | Disconnect | i suspect charging or running would screw it up. the battery gets -warm- |
| 19:50.41 | SystemWizard | not while charging or doing something processor intensive.. |
| 19:50.50 | sparkle | nods |
| 19:51.00 | SystemWizard | i can tell you from using the phone the chin gets warm during either of those activities |
| 19:52.06 | SystemWizard | puts his hat back over his eyes and nods back off |
| 19:52.32 | offby1 | pours ashes in SystemWizard's mouth |
| 19:52.45 | offby1 | it was either that, or tip his chair all the way over |
| 19:52.50 | SystemWizard | *gag* *wheeze* |
| 19:52.54 | *** join/#android Crazypoultry (i=Crazypou@cpe-65-25-107-227.neo.res.rr.com) |
| 19:52.57 | offby1 | he's got his boots on the coffee table again. I wish he'd not do that |
| 19:53.06 | SystemWizard | slaps offby1 around with a large trout |
| 19:53.20 | offby1 | fetches some drawn butter and fingerling potatoes |
| 19:53.25 | *** join/#android RyeBrye_ (n=RyeBrye@108.248.sfcn.org) |
| 19:54.16 | d0netsFN | any mexicans here? |
| 19:54.40 | d0netsFN | i want to know what cheese they use in the restaurants |
| 19:55.01 | d0netsFN | i googled but theres a list of 10 it could be |
| 19:55.02 | luok | cotija and oaxaca are popular |
| 19:55.04 | d0netsFN | but nobody knows for shure |
| 19:55.07 | luok | the crumbly kinds |
| 19:55.25 | d0netsFN | well this is a melty kind that they put in tacos and quesadillas |
| 19:56.09 | d0netsFN | i think i should just find a hispanic grocery store |
| 19:57.42 | ismarc | d0netsFN: are you looking for like, the queso melted cheese dip stuff? |
| 19:57.55 | d0netsFN | no |
| 19:57.58 | d0netsFN | well yes that too |
| 19:58.04 | d0netsFN | but the cheese they use in quesadillas |
| 19:59.20 | *** join/#android akuma5 (i=akuma55@adsl-070-148-142-011.sip.mia.bellsouth.net) |
| 19:59.24 | SystemWizard | in tex-mex restaurants they use a mix of cheddar and monterey jack |
| 19:59.27 | ismarc | http://www.xenite.org/white_cheese/queso-blanco-recipe.html is a great queso recipe, and quesadillas just have cheddar or monteray jack |
| 20:00.24 | d0netsFN | !google mexican quesadilla cheese |
| 20:00.37 | d0netsFN | oh i forget im not on efnet |
| 20:02.04 | *** join/#android dysinger (n=tim@166.129.220.142) |
| 20:02.44 | d0netsFN | • Queso oaxaca: Also known as quesillo, this soft, mild cheese is perfect for quesadillas. It is similar in texture to string cheese, and should be pulled apart into thin strings before being put on the tortilla. |
| 20:02.47 | d0netsFN | i think it might be that one |
| 20:15.49 | *** join/#android polymar (n=polymar@ip72-219-149-151.oc.oc.cox.net) |
| 20:20.10 | RyeBrye | infobot: devphones |
| 20:20.11 | infobot | [devphones] a phone with magical powers and will make all your wildest dreams come true. You can read about them here: http://code.google.com/android/dev-devices.html - in order to buy one, you have to pay a $25 to be in the "developer club" and then you can get into the back room where they keep them behind a curtain of lava. very expensive to ship outside the US, or sporting this: http://tinyurl.com/54sxg2 |
| 20:22.31 | RyeBrye | ttuttle: I no longer need access to your phone for anything :D |
| 20:22.41 | *** join/#android SYN-FIN-ACK (n=asaas@68.25.6.136) |
| 20:23.00 | Disconnect | RyeBrye: let him be "special" for a while longer, at least in his head. :) |
| 20:23.14 | RyeBrye | :/ |
| 20:23.16 | RyeBrye | :) |
| 20:23.31 | *** join/#android convivial (n=convivia@71.239.7.207) |
| 20:24.23 | *** join/#android vininim (n=vininim@pdpc/supporter/student/vininim) |
| 20:24.55 | *** join/#android blau-MikeDG (n=blau@c-68-39-243-76.hsd1.nj.comcast.net) |
| 20:25.28 | blau-MikeDG | hi guys |
| 20:25.44 | blau-MikeDG | anyone ever get some message syaing too many text messages were being sent? |
| 20:25.49 | RyeBrye | infobot - tell blau-MikeDG about devphones |
| 20:26.01 | RyeBrye | hmm... must not have parsed |
| 20:26.06 | Disconnect | no - |
| 20:26.10 | Disconnect | : instead |
| 20:26.13 | SystemWizard | blau-MikeDG: no |
| 20:26.18 | RyeBrye | infobot tell blau-MikeDG about devphones |
| 20:26.23 | Disconnect | ...needs a : |
| 20:26.28 | Disconnect | infobot: tell RyeBrye about help |
| 20:27.21 | RyeBrye | infobot help sexual_healing |
| 20:27.21 | blau-MikeDG | omg at devphones i think!!!! |
| 20:28.11 | SystemWizard | infobot: devphones |
| 20:28.12 | infobot | methinks devphones is a phone with magical powers and will make all your wildest dreams come true. You can read about them here: http://code.google.com/android/dev-devices.html - in order to buy one, you have to pay a $25 to be in the "developer club" and then you can get into the back room where they keep them behind a curtain of lava. very expensive to ship outside the US, or sporting this: http://tinyurl.com/54sxg2 |
| 20:28.26 | blau-MikeDG | wow cool |
| 20:28.35 | blau-MikeDG | cries in a corner about buying a real g1 |
| 20:28.49 | JesusFreke | eyes the buy button |
| 20:28.52 | Disconnect | that might be fixable. unless you just want the cool paint job. |
| 20:29.01 | *** join/#android bojangles (n=bojangle@c-98-226-6-195.hsd1.il.comcast.net) |
| 20:29.27 | blau-MikeDG | what happens when we reflash the phone |
| 20:29.36 | blau-MikeDG | i think i might buy it, just to have an actual seperate dev only phone |
| 20:29.39 | SystemWizard | it explodes |
| 20:29.55 | blau-MikeDG | i meant what happens to the google apps when we reflash |
| 20:30.08 | SystemWizard | oh.. THEY explode |
| 20:30.13 | jbq | Depends if they're on the new system image that you flash. |
| 20:30.16 | SystemWizard | or rather.. are erased. |
| 20:30.26 | RyeBrye | people with rooted phones, we might be able to reflash a fully loaded bootloader onto a normal G1 if you want to live dangerously |
| 20:30.26 | SystemWizard | right.. what jbq said |
| 20:30.28 | blau-MikeDG | jbq: how do we get them on there? |
| 20:30.48 | RyeBrye | they are included in the dev phone when it ships |
| 20:30.54 | RyeBrye | (the google apps at least) |
| 20:31.31 | blau-MikeDG | goes to make a list of things he wanted to change if he could reflash android onto his g1 |
| 20:31.34 | *** join/#android Adamant (n=Adamant@c-98-244-152-196.hsd1.ga.comcast.net) |
| 20:31.35 | RyeBrye | the dev phone includes market / youtube / google maps / streetview / pornhub / gmail ... etc |
| 20:31.55 | SystemWizard | pornhub? |
| 20:32.00 | RyeBrye | oh, woops. that's next release |
| 20:32.06 | SystemWizard | oh ok. |
| 20:32.22 | jbq | I'm sure we'll find a workable solution for the Google apps. |
| 20:32.30 | SystemWizard | that's the one that constantly dials 900-GOOGSEX, right? |
| 20:33.03 | jbq | nah, 1-900-JBQ-RICH |
| 20:33.23 | SystemWizard | nah I was talking about pornhub |
| 20:33.38 | blau-MikeDG | im stumped by this one error a user reported to me :( |
| 20:33.46 | *** join/#android elad (n=sylzel@adsl-99-163-108-131.dsl.hstntx.sbcglobal.net) |
| 20:34.00 | RyeBrye | blau-MikeDG: are they on t-mobile officially? |
| 20:34.00 | blau-MikeDG | In 1.0_r1, it was possible for developers to write technically-illegal code by using the Java Reflection APIs to access private or protected fields and methods. 1.0_r2 fixes that problem by enforcing private/protected visibility of items accessed via Reflection. sigh... |
| 20:34.15 | *** join/#android polymar_ (n=polymar@vpn.yellowpages.com) |
| 20:34.26 | RyeBrye | damn. :( |
| 20:34.36 | RyeBrye | likes breaking the technical law |
| 20:34.59 | jbq | Users really don't like it when apps break after system updates, though. |
| 20:37.23 | kirberich | ok, I think I'm gonna buy the dev phone now. Are we sure it has gps now? ;) |
| 20:37.43 | kirberich | because if it for some strange reason doesn't, I'm gonna jump out of a window. |
| 20:37.44 | jbq | I haven't heard anything back either way. |
| 20:37.45 | blau-MikeDG | it looks completely identical to the g1 |
| 20:37.56 | kirberich | yeah well it should be |
| 20:38.00 | blau-MikeDG | why do you even think it wont have gps |
| 20:38.05 | kirberich | but 500 bucks is a lot of money for "should" |
| 20:38.19 | jbq | For all I know it should be the same hardware except for the paint job. |
| 20:38.20 | kirberich | I think jbq started that rumour because it's not listed in the features list ;) |
| 20:38.31 | kirberich | (may have been someone else) |
| 20:38.33 | blau-MikeDG | a keyboard isnt listed wither |
| 20:38.41 | kirberich | blau-MikeDG: sure it is |
| 20:38.47 | jbq | Actually, someone asked, I just relayed the information. |
| 20:38.52 | blau-MikeDG | i wa sbeing facetious |
| 20:38.52 | kirberich | QWERTY slider keyboard |
| 20:39.11 | kirberich | alright, what the hell. I'm gonna click "buy" now. |
| 20:39.31 | blau-MikeDG | i want it too, just gotta reset my mac for development |
| 20:40.04 | blau-MikeDG | "saying something like a large number of sms is being downloading to continue press ok to stop hit cancel." |
| 20:40.53 | *** join/#android Olipro (n=Olipro@uncyclopedia/Olipro) |
| 20:40.53 | kirberich | * International State & Province <- wth is that? ;) |
| 20:42.44 | *** join/#android bojangles (n=bojangle@c-98-226-6-195.hsd1.il.comcast.net) |
| 20:44.26 | Disconnect | jbq: will it still send tons of sms's to the myfaves number? :( |
| 20:45.53 | blau-MikeDG | is there no simple way to search for a contact by their phone number? |
| 20:46.56 | jbq | Disconnect: you mean, the devphone? |
| 20:47.02 | Disconnect | yah |
| 20:47.26 | jbq | I'd be very very surprised if it had myvaves installed, that's specific to T-Mobile US. |
| 20:47.59 | Disconnect | ..so no myfavs. does that mean no gmail, no contact sync, no maps, no..? |
| 20:48.05 | jbq | I have to admit that I never actually ran that system image on any of my phones. |
| 20:48.24 | jbq | Disconnect: those are from Google, not from T-Mobile, and I think that they're all included. |
| 20:48.34 | *** join/#android convivial (n=convivia@71.239.7.207) |
| 20:48.36 | jbq | (at least the spec sheet says that they are) |
| 20:48.49 | *** part/#android raidfive (n=adam@c-71-236-205-80.hsd1.wa.comcast.net) |
| 20:49.11 | Disconnect | how do you keep them included tho, if you're able to reflash platform? i know they aren't getting opened.. are the apks gonna be available or something? |
| 20:49.43 | luok | anyone have the link for that windows developer tmobile deal? |
| 20:50.04 | RyeBrye | or more importantly, what it is the channel where upgrades for the official apps for the dev phones will be distributed? |
| 20:50.08 | jbq | Disconnect: I don't actually know, to be honest. |
| 20:50.09 | JesusFreke | luok, it doesn't have anything to do with tmobile :D |
| 20:50.13 | JesusFreke | infobot devphones |
| 20:50.14 | infobot | well, devphones is a phone with magical powers and will make all your wildest dreams come true. You can read about them here: http://code.google.com/android/dev-devices.html - in order to buy one, you have to pay a $25 to be in the "developer club" and then you can get into the back room where they keep them behind a curtain of lava. very expensive to ship outside the US, or sporting this: http://tinyurl.com/54sxg2 |
| 20:50.17 | Disconnect | fair enough. its kinda a concern tho :) |
| 20:50.18 | luok | no the older one |
| 20:50.32 | JesusFreke | oh, nevermind |
| 20:50.35 | Disconnect | JesusFreke: there is a discount/rebate for smartphones from microsoft which, for some reason, applies to the g1 also |
| 20:50.36 | luok | the other deal is a better one for me |
| 20:50.42 | JesusFreke | sorry, I know what you're talking about now luok |
| 20:50.43 | RyeBrye | so when YouTube 2.0 or whatever comes out - how will those with devphones get it? Presumably it will be pushed OTA to g1 owners - but there is probably no OTA on the dev phones |
| 20:50.51 | Disconnect | RyeBrye: i'd hope not |
| 20:50.55 | JesusFreke | I just don't have a link handy :) |
| 20:51.08 | Disconnect | but straight out you lose if you reflash the platform (which is what the dev phone is for..) |
| 20:51.09 | luok | haha crap i think this was it: http://www.microsoft.com/windowsmobile/tmobile3/default.mspx |
| 20:51.11 | AstainHellbring | anyone know what freqs the devphones will work on for wcdma? |
| 20:51.18 | luok | page don't exists |
| 20:51.40 | jbq | I'd assume that people who do development would have a computer and a USB cable and will know how to download an image and flash it. |
| 20:51.53 | jbq | AstainHellbring: UMTS 1700 and 2100 |
| 20:51.57 | JesusFreke | agrees with jpq |
| 20:52.17 | AstainHellbring | thats all for the devphone? thats lame |
| 20:52.22 | RyeBrye | jbq: but the question is where the proprietary apps will come from when they are updated - or how you can restore them if you reflash an OSS tree build and lose your youtube / gmail |
| 20:52.29 | Disconnect | jbq: that assumes there is some way to -get- the apps to be added to the image.. |
| 20:52.44 | *** join/#android jbq_ (n=jbq@72.14.224.1) |
| 20:52.45 | Nafai | sighs |
| 20:52.51 | Nafai | Too many application ideas, too little time |
| 20:52.58 | RyeBrye | an easy first step would be to provide an nbh for download to devs who have bought the phone |
| 20:53.06 | jbq_ | gah, stupid wifi disconnection... |
| 20:53.14 | RyeBrye | so then you could at least restore to default after banging around on it |
| 20:53.25 | Disconnect | RyeBrye: i suspect if they wanted to do that they'd have done it already.. |
| 20:53.37 | Disconnect | would love to see it, but.. |
| 20:53.39 | RyeBrye | Disconnect: this one doesn't have to be signed by HTC though |
| 20:53.46 | Disconnect | bear in mind that the g1 is from tmobile and the "dev 1" is from google.... |
| 20:53.49 | RyeBrye | Disconnect: this one can be just unsigned or signed by some test key |
| 20:53.55 | Disconnect | ah i gotcha |
| 20:54.14 | RyeBrye | so thye can have a DEVRESTORE.NBH you could flash with the dev bootloader that can't be flashed on a G1 bootloader - but would reflash the whole dev phone back to a functional / virgin state |
| 20:54.19 | RyeBrye | I would hope this kind of thing would be provided |
| 20:54.26 | Disconnect | yah |
| 20:54.45 | *** join/#android comex (n=comex@teklinks.org) |
| 20:54.57 | RyeBrye | If the media player apps were better, the $400 dev phone wouldn't be all that bad for just a media player that takes 16-gig SDHC flash cards :) |
| 20:55.05 | Disconnect | heh |
| 20:55.05 | RyeBrye | don't even use the phone with it - save battery :) |
| 20:55.46 | jbq_ | RyeBrye: as long as you have a working unlocked bootloader (and probably a correct partition table and maybe few other basic things) you should be able to recover from bad system partitions and stuff. |
| 20:57.06 | RyeBrye | jbq_: recovering to functional state isn't the concern. It's recovering to a state with the Google proprietary apps that we have no source available for - yet come with the dev phones |
| 20:57.26 | RyeBrye | jbq_: I know you can get it functioning... but if you don't have a full system image to restore from, it's kind of hard to recreate those proprietary apps |
| 20:57.33 | jbq_ | RyeBrye: yes, one of the first things we need to do is to make the original image available for download. |
| 20:57.47 | JesusFreke | that would be perfect :) |
| 20:58.17 | RyeBrye | jbq_: Ok, that's all I was really wondering about |
| 20:58.23 | *** join/#android rev_otto (n=ian@user-1087doj.cable.mindspring.com) |
| 20:58.36 | jbq_ | I can't imagine why we wouldn't do that. After all, you guys know how to download G1 images and modify them, so let's be realistic. |
| 20:58.46 | rev_otto | ahh |
| 20:58.49 | Disconnect | lol |
| 20:58.50 | rev_otto | <PROTECTED> |
| 20:59.14 | rev_otto | furiously rubs his googly phone hoping an irc client appears |
| 20:59.42 | JesusFreke | you forgot to say "genie, genie, in the phone?" :D |
| 20:59.43 | Disconnect | good luck with that |
| 20:59.44 | blau-MikeDG | do any of you guys send 10s of thousands of sms's a month |
| 21:00.05 | JesusFreke | I sent 1 sms last month. does that count? |
| 21:00.26 | rev_otto | if it were not for the fairer sex I would deign to send any |
| 21:00.52 | blau-MikeDG | one of my users is having a weird problem |
| 21:00.55 | TiberiumX | My wife and I agreed on e-mail instead of using up our 100 text messages. |
| 21:00.55 | Lenolium | rev_otto: Do a google search for "irc apk", be pleased. |
| 21:01.29 | *** join/#android makghosh (n=Joy@117.201.97.230) |
| 21:01.32 | TiberiumX | Can you hide MP3s from the music player? Maybe giving it an unrecognizable file extension (does it care)? |
| 21:01.51 | rev_otto | Well android chat during the dev contest was pretty much a fully running irc except it was bogged down with location aware crud and their servers |
| 21:02.06 | *** join/#android `vip (n=denied@m5d5e36d0.tmodns.net) |
| 21:02.07 | TiberiumX | I don't want a bunch of oddly named podcasts clogging up the Songs list. |
| 21:02.42 | *** join/#android jerkface03 (i=HATERAID@S0106000d3a2c0806.vc.shawcable.net) |
| 21:02.53 | RyeBrye | blau-MikeDG: have they talked to T-mobile? sounds like a carrier issue |
| 21:03.17 | RyeBrye | blau-MikeDG: If I am doing support for a webbrowser, and a user is getting 500 errors on a given web page, that's not my problem... |
| 21:04.08 | rev_otto | tmob screwed with me so much over the g1 I ended up getting it for free |
| 21:10.16 | blau-MikeDG | rye: i found one other mention of a problem, im trying to get the user to send me an actual pic of the screen |
| 21:10.32 | RyeBrye | cool |
| 21:24.52 | blau-MikeDG | oh wow, the back of the dev phone i sdope |
| 21:25.16 | rev_otto | yeah |
| 21:25.20 | rev_otto | I want the cover |
| 21:25.21 | rev_otto | heh |
| 21:26.21 | kirberich | rev_otto: so there's no irc yet? that sucks quite a bit. |
| 21:26.34 | RyeBrye | there is an irc app in private beta |
| 21:26.40 | RyeBrye | but I can't remember who is doing it |
| 21:26.52 | rev_otto | hmm |
| 21:26.54 | RyeBrye | some student doing it for a project iirc |
| 21:27.01 | RyeBrye | supposedly it works though |
| 21:27.06 | rev_otto | it's a pretty essential app for me |
| 21:27.16 | rev_otto | more so than shop savy |
| 21:27.18 | *** join/#android dims (n=dims@c-76-24-122-109.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) |
| 21:27.27 | rev_otto | finds a can of tuna cheaper 10 miles away |
| 21:27.28 | kirberich | rev_otto: it will be for me too |
| 21:28.14 | RyeBrye | The % of G1 users in on an IRC channel wanting an IRC app probably is skewed by selection bias |
| 21:28.35 | rev_otto | eh |
| 21:28.42 | JesusFreke | just maybe :) |
| 21:28.57 | rev_otto | if you had never heard of irc and somebody said, hey need a group chat that's easy |
| 21:29.11 | blau-MikeDG | i made an irc client that joins this channel |
| 21:29.28 | RyeBrye | oh, blau-MikeDG - are you the one with the private beta thing? |
| 21:29.42 | blau-MikeDG | no, it was just a proof of concept |
| 21:29.45 | rev_otto | I've just used telnet and irssi |
| 21:29.47 | rev_otto | but eh |
| 21:29.49 | blau-MikeDG | you cant actually send anything to this channel |
| 21:29.52 | blau-MikeDG | just join |
| 21:29.54 | blau-MikeDG | :) |
| 21:30.35 | RyeBrye | cool |
| 21:30.42 | RyeBrye | you coudl communicate through nick changes! |
| 21:30.47 | RyeBrye | thinks_that_would_be_annoying |
| 21:31.06 | RyeBrye | yeah, that woudl get old |
| 21:32.32 | what_theres_noth | bleh :p |
| 21:32.45 | what_theres_noth | ma nick length is too short |
| 21:33.25 | JesusFreke | max* |
| 21:34.59 | *** join/#android SYN-FIN-ACK (n=asaas@68-25-6-136.pools.spcsdns.net) |
| 21:34.59 | kirberich | rev_ott: if no irc app turns up I guess it's gonna be my first program ;) |
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| 21:37.43 | *** join/#android Poohba (n=poohba@c-71-58-20-66.hsd1.nj.comcast.net) |
| 21:38.43 | michaelnovakjr__ | i'm almost done with one |
| 21:39.55 | RyeBrye | ah, is yours the private beta one? |
| 21:39.59 | michaelnovakjr__ | no |
| 21:40.02 | RyeBrye | oh, ok |
| 21:40.04 | michaelnovakjr__ | mine is going to be open source |
| 21:40.13 | RyeBrye | cool. Then someone can throw on DCC and crap to it |
| 21:40.14 | michaelnovakjr__ | and publicly available when its ready |
| 21:40.20 | RyeBrye | (assuming you don't already have it in there) |
| 21:40.36 | michaelnovakjr__ | not at the moment |
| 21:40.40 | michaelnovakjr__ | but sure, its possible :) |
| 21:40.48 | RyeBrye | make the phone into an auto-file-serving dcc bot :) |
| 21:41.45 | RyeBrye | oh, just for the sake of putting it out thre... does the dev phone come with that 3.5mm headphone adapter like the new G1's do? |
| 21:41.53 | kirberich | michaelnovakjr__: what's the program gonna be called, and will we find it on the market? |
| 21:41.56 | RyeBrye | didn't get a 3.5mm headphone adapter with his phone :( |
| 21:42.06 | kirberich | RyeBrye: the site didn't say anything about an adapter |
| 21:42.17 | michaelnovakjr__ | it'll be called Conversation, and it will be on the market when its ready |
| 21:43.01 | kirberich | michaelnovakjr__: awesome |
| 21:43.11 | kirberich | RyeBrye: nope, specs don't mention an adapter. |
| 21:43.15 | d0netsFN | yea rybrye |
| 21:43.20 | d0netsFN | i talked to a CS rep today |
| 21:43.23 | d0netsFN | she said thats false |
| 21:43.26 | d0netsFN | they dont come with adapters |
| 21:43.28 | d0netsFN | i asked for one |
| 21:43.31 | RyeBrye | Oh |
| 21:43.33 | d0netsFN | but she said LIES! |
| 21:43.42 | RyeBrye | Yeah, I thought they did? |
| 21:43.55 | Nafai | My G1 that I got this week came with an adapter |
| 21:43.55 | d0netsFN | just order them where i did |
| 21:43.59 | d0netsFN | 2.50 shipped |
| 21:44.00 | d0netsFN | i bought 5 |
| 21:44.07 | RyeBrye | where did you get yours? |
| 21:44.10 | d0netsFN | nafai where did you get it |
| 21:44.19 | Nafai | Ordered from T-mobile through a local dealer |
| 21:44.23 | RyeBrye | I was thinking a USB + 3.5MM would be good so I could charge it too and plug in headphones |
| 21:44.39 | Nafai | RyeBrye: But I would like an adapter so I could do both |
| 21:44.45 | RyeBrye | Nafai: woudl you be willin to testtify to this on a 3-way call with a t-mobile customer service agent? ;) |
| 21:44.52 | michaelnovakjr__ | work's been crazy... i'm working the app as much as i can |
| 21:44.56 | Nafai | RyeBrye: Sure :) |
| 21:44.57 | d0netsFN | yea i want one of those too for the car ryebrye |
| 21:45.03 | *** join/#android convivial (n=convivia@71.239.7.207) |
| 21:45.09 | d0netsFN | to have 3.5 to my aux in, and usb to my car charger |
| 21:45.10 | Nafai | michaelnovakjr__: What's the app you are working on? |
| 21:45.18 | michaelnovakjr__ | IRC app |
| 21:45.23 | Nafai | Cool |
| 21:45.29 | d0netsFN | there is one made |
| 21:45.36 | d0netsFN | but hes claiming he will charge for it |
| 21:45.39 | RyeBrye | I was debating just looking to see if I could run the wires myself inside the phone to a 3.5mm adapter inside the phone |
| 21:45.41 | d0netsFN | i pasted a link to the beta apk in the forums |
| 21:46.09 | d0netsFN | hrmm i think its on android-community.com actually |
| 21:46.16 | RyeBrye | or maybe a 2.5mm or something and use a plug adapter on the outside - but I don't know if I feel like dremeling my phone that much |
| 21:46.28 | d0netsFN | dude |
| 21:46.28 | kirberich | Nafai: is this a special adapter for the g1, or for more htc phones? |
| 21:46.31 | d0netsFN | i would be down to do th at |
| 21:46.35 | d0netsFN | a hacked 3.5 |
| 21:46.43 | d0netsFN | i bet it would be hard |
| 21:46.50 | Nafai | kirberich: It's branded htc, but I don't know if it is special to just the g1 |
| 21:46.50 | michaelnovakjr__ | d0netsFN: mine's going to be free and open source |
| 21:46.51 | d0netsFN | and would have to be in the area near the jogball |
| 21:47.02 | d0netsFN | good deal michaelnovakjr_ |
| 21:47.06 | d0netsFN | get'r'dun |
| 21:47.09 | RyeBrye | What is that little hole for by the usb plug? microphone? |
| 21:47.18 | d0netsFN | yea |
| 21:47.19 | kirberich | Nafai: that's too bad, because in Germany I probably won't get a special g1 adapter for a few months ;) |
| 21:47.34 | RyeBrye | There seems to be enough space at the top of the phone below the HTC logo |
| 21:47.37 | d0netsFN | get it from china |
| 21:47.38 | RyeBrye | from the tear-apart images I saw |
| 21:47.38 | d0netsFN | kirberich |
| 21:47.50 | d0netsFN | thats where mine was from |
| 21:47.53 | d0netsFN | and it came with free led |
| 21:48.00 | kirberich | what? ;) |
| 21:48.00 | d0netsFN | 2.50 shipped |
| 21:48.07 | kirberich | hm |
| 21:48.07 | kirberich | that's cool. |
| 21:48.10 | d0netsFN | you guys want a link? |
| 21:48.23 | Nafai | Let me upload a picture of it |
| 21:48.34 | kirberich | d0netsFN: sure |
| 21:48.46 | RyeBrye | http://techon.nikkeibp.co.jp/english/NEWS_EN/20081024/160067/ |
| 21:48.54 | d0netsFN | http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=280277868575 |
| 21:49.08 | RyeBrye | right next to the camera I think you could put a 3.5mm adapter and run wires down alongside the edge |
| 21:49.22 | RyeBrye | but that might not be the best because of interference with the radio... hmmm.... |
| 21:50.24 | JesusFreke | there's an adapter than can do both audio and usb/charging at the same time |
| 21:50.30 | JesusFreke | it's a bit bulky though |
| 21:50.35 | kirberich | d0netsFN: ok seems it's a standard adapter, one should be able to get it in a store even in germany |
| 21:50.39 | bbs | i just got a tmobile g1 |
| 21:50.44 | bbs | unlocked it to att |
| 21:50.48 | bbs | i'm a software dev |
| 21:50.51 | bbs | where should is tart to play |
| 21:50.53 | RyeBrye | JesusFreke: part of the point is to use a dremel :) |
| 21:50.57 | JesusFreke | lol :p |
| 21:51.14 | kirberich | bbs: dremel a hole into your phone to put in a headphone jack, then tell us if it worked ;) |
| 21:51.22 | *** join/#android andyross (n=andy@static-71-245-107-194.ptldor.fios.verizon.net) |
| 21:51.31 | *** join/#android dysinger_ (n=tim@166.129.254.34) |
| 21:51.41 | JesusFreke | or use one of these :p |
| 21:51.58 | JesusFreke | ugh. nevermind |
| 21:51.59 | kirberich | bbs: but seriously, you mean like what apps are missing? |
| 21:52.03 | JesusFreke | the link is insanely long. |
| 21:52.17 | bbs | well i mean |
| 21:52.19 | d0netsFN | yea kirberich you should, other htc phones use it, like the tytn/tilt |
| 21:52.21 | JesusFreke | ah, there's the shorterish link |
| 21:52.22 | bbs | i would like to start development |
| 21:52.22 | JesusFreke | http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&item=280196511261 |
| 21:52.24 | RyeBrye | infobot tell JesusFreke about tinyurl |
| 21:52.28 | Nafai | http://www.travishartwell.net/adapter.jpg <- the adapter I got |
| 21:52.31 | JesusFreke | meh :p |
| 21:52.39 | bbs | kirberich: should i install some rc version of andriod |
| 21:52.45 | bbs | should i leave it as is |
| 21:52.49 | bbs | and use an emulator |
| 21:52.51 | bbs | what is the process |
| 21:52.59 | bbs | i'll be happy to install unstable shit on my personal devices |
| 21:53.05 | bbs | people don't need me that badly by phone |
| 21:53.06 | RyeBrye | infobot tinyurl is a service you can use to make big URLs small http://tinyurl.com/ |
| 21:53.07 | infobot | ACTION runs '/exec tinyurl.sh http://maps.google.com//maps/ms?ie=UTF8&addr=is a service you can use to make big URLs small http://tinyurl.com/' and laughs maniacally! |
| 21:53.10 | bbs | and when they do i'm at work or at school |
| 21:53.24 | RyeBrye | infobot: what the hell was taht? |
| 21:53.31 | kirberich | bbs: you really shouldn't need to do anything with your phone, just install the emulator and start poking around, then test if the software works on the phone |
| 21:53.35 | RyeBrye | infobot: tinyurl |
| 21:53.42 | kirberich | at least that's the feeling I'm getting, but I don't have my phone yet ;) |
| 21:54.11 | RyeBrye | infobot: tinyurl |
| 21:54.32 | bbs | kirberich: all i run is linux and os x if i have to |
| 21:54.34 | bbs | and freebsd |
| 21:54.42 | bbs | is the emulator available for this platform |
| 21:54.42 | bbs | and where |
| 21:54.53 | *** join/#android dysinger__ (n=tim@166.129.254.34) |
| 21:55.16 | kirberich | bbs: http://code.google.com/android/ <- there you shall find everything you need. |
| 21:55.49 | *** join/#android meoblast001 (n=meoblast@dynamic-acs-24-154-193-141.zoominternet.net) |
| 21:55.49 | Impossible_ | http://www.engadget.com/2008/12/05/sim-hardware-unlocked-android-dev-phone-1-surfaces-for-399/ |
| 21:56.06 | bbs | kirberich: thx |
| 21:56.08 | bbs | peace out |
| 21:56.14 | bbs | i'll bbl with more information on what i'm doing |
| 21:56.20 | bbs | kirberich: you mentioned apps seriously lacking |
| 21:56.22 | bbs | i'm all ears |
| 21:56.25 | bbs | i'll start with one |
| 21:56.29 | RyeBrye | infobot: tell Impossible_ about devphones |
| 21:56.40 | Impossible_ | thanks |
| 21:57.15 | kirberich | bbs: that was more of a question. We don't have an irc application yet, but michaelnovakjr__ is working on one. |
| 21:57.29 | Impossible_ | what would stop dev roms leaking onto our devices? |
| 21:57.32 | Impossible_ | the bootloaders? |
| 21:57.36 | kirberich | but I'm sure I can tell you about loads of apps I am missing as soon as my device arrives ;) |
| 21:58.07 | RyeBrye | I think I load on about 50+ apps if I do a hard reset |
| 21:58.20 | d0netsFN | there is an irc app |
| 21:58.45 | kirberich | d0netsFN: you talking about the one in private beta, or one I don't know about yet? |
| 21:59.06 | d0netsFN | http://countercultured.net/ircbeta.apk |
| 21:59.09 | d0netsFN | yea its a beta |
| 21:59.17 | michaelnovakjr__ | that sucks though doesn't it? |
| 21:59.23 | kirberich | ah, just not so private anymore? ;) |
| 21:59.45 | michaelnovakjr__ | i downloaded that and it was horrible |
| 22:00.20 | d0netsFN | nah |
| 22:00.22 | d0netsFN | its pretty nice |
| 22:00.25 | d0netsFN | and he adds shit every day |
| 22:00.32 | d0netsFN | that apk is updated lots |
| 22:00.40 | kirberich | is there a decent gps logger yet? |
| 22:00.42 | d0netsFN | he hangs out in my chan on efnet |
| 22:00.55 | bbs | michaelnovakjr__: what are you considering programming this in |
| 22:00.57 | kirberich | best would be one that can upload gps logs |
| 22:00.58 | d0netsFN | hes an efnet admin |
| 22:01.01 | bbs | porting irssi shouldn't ba problem |
| 22:01.05 | bbs | but more than that |
| 22:01.09 | Impossible_ | im worried about a irc app for my g1 |
| 22:01.11 | michaelnovakjr__ | bbs i wrote it in Java |
| 22:01.17 | Impossible_ | i dont have enough battery as it is... |
| 22:01.18 | michaelnovakjr__ | i've almost got it completed |
| 22:01.29 | Impossible_ | me using it for irc will kill it ;) |
| 22:01.32 | RyeBrye | has his G1 plugged in pretty much 22 hours a day |
| 22:01.39 | bbs | michaelnovakjr__: well then :) |
| 22:01.41 | bbs | congratz |
| 22:01.42 | d0netsFN | michaelnovakj__ please add password functionality ok? |
| 22:01.43 | RyeBrye | but then again, I also work at a computer all day |
| 22:01.49 | bbs | bbl |
| 22:01.50 | d0netsFN | for bnc's and such |
| 22:01.53 | *** part/#android bbs (n=bbs@unaffiliated/bbs) |
| 22:02.29 | michaelnovakjr__ | d0netsFN: its in there :) |
| 22:03.09 | kirberich | michaelnovakjr__: if you need testers, I'm very much avaliable ;) |
| 22:03.14 | *** join/#android _zippy (n=zart-tra@c-98-217-38-63.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) |
| 22:03.21 | d0netsFN | k thanks |
| 22:03.28 | d0netsFN | this one doesnt have that |
| 22:03.30 | d0netsFN | yet |
| 22:03.35 | michaelnovakjr__ | i'll make an announcement |
| 22:03.35 | d0netsFN | so it shows my phone ip |
| 22:03.39 | d0netsFN | i really am tempted to ddos it |
| 22:03.44 | michaelnovakjr__ | just remember mine will be free, so don't waste money :) |
| 22:03.56 | d0netsFN | thats what i tell him |
| 22:04.00 | d0netsFN | i told him .99 max |
| 22:04.04 | d0netsFN | he wants to charge like 5 bucks |
| 22:04.09 | d0netsFN | that = me pirating it |
| 22:04.12 | kirberich | lol |
| 22:04.28 | kirberich | therefore: $5 == free. |
| 22:04.54 | d0netsFN | if i can get my guitar tuner ported i might consider making a pro version with all stringed instruments including a piano, adding a metronome and drum machine and chords, for .99 |
| 22:05.01 | d0netsFN | but the guitar tuner wil be free |
| 22:05.28 | Disconnect | right cuz its got gpl code. of course it'll be free. |
| 22:05.33 | d0netsFN | but ive been dealing with the last 2 weeks of the semester + finals |
| 22:05.39 | Disconnect | as will all the other instruments |
| 22:05.49 | d0netsFN | yea i think i will have to do the tuner free |
| 22:05.50 | d0netsFN | for all |
| 22:06.08 | d0netsFN | then add the chords metronome and alternate tunings for each instruments |
| 22:06.12 | d0netsFN | i can charge for that? |
| 22:06.17 | d0netsFN | can i* |
| 22:06.25 | Disconnect | ask a lawyer. but basically no. |
| 22:06.45 | kirberich | d0netsFN: it might be possible to charge for the distribution through the market |
| 22:06.47 | d0netsFN | i need to talk to him |
| 22:06.55 | kirberich | but you will still need to make the code available for free |
| 22:06.57 | obra | you can, but you have to give away the source and let other people give it away and change it |
| 22:07.06 | obra | (See early versions of cygwin, for example) |
| 22:07.06 | michaelnovakjr__ | well, at any rate mine will be free and probably better :) |
| 22:07.08 | kirberich | and anyone could take the code and redistribute it for free on the market |
| 22:07.12 | d0netsFN | maybe we can split it between everyone involved, and him |
| 22:07.29 | michaelnovakjr__ | plus if you don't like it or want to add something, at least i give you the source code |
| 22:07.45 | Disconnect | techincally you have to give it only to people who buy the app. |
| 22:07.59 | kirberich | Disconnect: true, but they then can give it to everyone |
| 22:09.00 | *** join/#android remitaylor (n=remi@97-117-131-1.phnx.qwest.net) |
| 22:10.19 | michaelnovakjr__ | i like the idea of open source |
| 22:10.34 | *** join/#android bbs (n=bbs@unaffiliated/bbs) |
| 22:10.39 | kirberich | who here doesn't? ;) |
| 22:10.41 | bbs | can i sync with mac os x contacts |
| 22:10.45 | bbs | thats my last question |
| 22:10.48 | bbs | and all that matters atm |
| 22:10.49 | bbs | lol |
| 22:12.47 | Disconnect | bbs: http://tinyurl.com/5reogy |
| 22:12.58 | remitaylor | quick question (google hasn't helped me with this so far) ... anyone know if you can listen to music (or any audio besides phone calls) with a bluetooth headset? |
| 22:13.21 | JesusFreke | no, you can't |
| 22:13.24 | Disconnect | remitaylor: afaik no you can't |
| 22:13.25 | JesusFreke | (yet) |
| 22:14.01 | remitaylor | bummer :/ thanks guys! i'll buy a headset when you can :) |
| 22:15.52 | *** join/#android duey (n=duey@203.96.223.40) |
| 22:17.08 | kirberich | so anyway, what are the apps you guys miss the most right now? |
| 22:20.17 | *** join/#android convivial (n=convivia@71.239.7.207) |
| 22:20.38 | *** join/#android tripps (n=sean@72.20.150.206) |
| 22:24.05 | ttuttle | kirberich: miss? |
| 22:24.12 | ttuttle | kirberich: from where? |
| 22:24.26 | kirberich | yeah, as in "would love to have it on my g1, but nobody wrote it yet" |
| 22:24.44 | RyeBrye | kirberich: a good geocaching app |
| 22:24.52 | RyeBrye | kirberich: I'd help you write one if you wanted |
| 22:25.09 | ttuttle | kirberich: Google-accounts linked notepad and RSS reader apps. |
| 22:25.19 | luok | what ttuttle said |
| 22:25.30 | kirberich | i'm not really that into geocaching. What I'd love to have in that area though is a program that tracks my gps position and puts it on a google maps thingy |
| 22:25.35 | Nafai | Yeah, I agree with ttuttle |
| 22:25.40 | kirberich | ttuttle: yeah that seems missable. |
| 22:25.46 | ttuttle | kirberich: Also a Facebook client, as the mobile website doesn't let me login and the desktop one is horribly JavaScript heavy. |
| 22:26.09 | luok | and a notification customizer that lets you set up different types of repeating alerts for different types of notifications |
| 22:26.18 | ttuttle | kirberich: Also an AIM client that doesn't require a proxy, and an IRC client. |
| 22:26.42 | ttuttle | kirberich: Oh, and a PDF/word/excel viewer. |
| 22:26.43 | kirberich | http://countercultured.net/ircbeta.apk <- for the latter. |
| 22:27.09 | ttuttle | kirberich: And a nice ebook reader. |
| 22:27.22 | Nafai | ttuttle: Yeah, e-book reader too |
| 22:27.41 | Nafai | Plucker-compatible |
| 22:28.23 | kirberich | alright, thanks for the input. I'm gonna go to sleep now |
| 22:28.28 | kirberich | good night! |
| 22:29.02 | RyeBrye | PDF viewer - I bet iText is a bit heavy for android, huh? |
| 22:30.25 | ttuttle | is really tired of the stream of people trying to find people to chat with by leaving their email addresses in Market comments. Can we ban that? |
| 22:32.25 | *** part/#android andyross (n=andy@static-71-245-107-194.ptldor.fios.verizon.net) |
| 22:33.07 | Impossible_ | i miss turn based sat nav... eg tomtom |
| 22:37.54 | luok | ttuttle: hehe how the heck did it become a meme |
| 22:38.01 | luok | they really just need voting buttons on peoples reviews |
| 22:41.03 | blau-MikeDG | i want that new dev phone |
| 22:42.09 | blau-MikeDG | the market is trash as it is |
| 22:42.24 | blau-MikeDG | reviews need some way to review them, sort them |
| 22:42.31 | blau-MikeDG | 325 character limit is lame |
| 22:42.52 | blau-MikeDG | for market escriptions |
| 22:43.01 | blau-MikeDG | i might as well just ask people to text me if they are interested in my app and ill txt them 3! messages back |
| 22:43.26 | *** join/#android makghosh_ (n=Joy@117.201.96.115) |
| 22:43.26 | Nafai | I wish there was some way I could browse the apps off of my phone |
| 22:43.34 | blau-MikeDG | its even worse now that there isnt an automated way to find updates |
| 22:43.54 | blau-MikeDG | if i update my app, now i have to use part of the 325 characters to say what was different |
| 22:44.06 | blau-MikeDG | ive had 3 people email me asking what my app does |
| 22:44.13 | blau-MikeDG | i wonder how many i lost because the description sucks |
| 22:44.24 | Nafai | blau-MikeDG: That is frustrating |
| 22:44.37 | Nafai | I admit I probably have passed up some apps because it isn't clear what they do |
| 22:44.46 | Nafai | It'll be worse when there are for-pay apps in the store |
| 22:44.47 | blau-MikeDG | i have too |
| 22:44.59 | *** join/#android ITechJunkie (n=trevor@ip72-198-61-100.ok.ok.cox.net) |
| 22:45.03 | Nafai | I won't pay for an app if I'm not certain Iwant it |
| 22:45.03 | Impossible_ | the update system does suck |
| 22:45.14 | RyeBrye | They have a retrn period though |
| 22:45.37 | ITechJunkie | jasta: Hey are you around man? I have a question about compiling five-server |
| 22:45.41 | jasta | sure |
| 22:45.42 | blau-MikeDG | i think my first paid app, will be sms backup and restore |
| 22:46.10 | Nafai | blau-MikeDG: You seem pretty prolific |
| 22:46.35 | ITechJunkie | jasta: "./autogen.sh" spits out "autogen.sh: 3: autoreconf: not found" |
| 22:46.37 | blau-MikeDG | i enjoy developing for android |
| 22:46.44 | jasta | ITechJunkie: perhaps you should install autoreconf then |
| 22:47.04 | blau-MikeDG | curiosity more than anything makes me want to charge for an app now |
| 22:47.05 | blau-MikeDG | lol |
| 22:47.20 | blau-MikeDG | just to see if people turn on me, like they seem to do with any non free app now |
| 22:47.36 | ITechJunkie | jasta: i tried apt-get install autoreconf but it can't find the package |
| 22:48.00 | ITechJunkie | is it bundled with something else or am I gonna have to compile that from source? |
| 22:48.36 | michaelnovakjr__ | blau-MikeDG: i will :) |
| 22:48.47 | jasta | ITechJunkie: its in autoconf of course |
| 22:48.53 | Nafai | I need to start developing for Android |
| 22:49.12 | ITechJunkie | jasta: ah, thanks. I'll give that a shot |
| 22:49.41 | *** join/#android ecubuntu (n=ecubuntu@c-67-180-162-169.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
| 22:50.10 | Nafai | blau-MikeDG: Have you found any resources other than the online docs at code.google.com/android to be helpful? |
| 22:50.26 | blau-MikeDG | the android developer groups |
| 22:50.40 | blau-MikeDG | if you have a problem, someone else has probably had it already, so search there |
| 22:50.58 | blau-MikeDG | this and #android-dev have been valiable as well |
| 22:51.01 | JesusFreke | Nafai: it's useful to take a look at the apps that are provided in the source |
| 22:51.24 | blau-MikeDG | api demo from the sdk, has been rally helpful as well |
| 22:51.27 | blau-MikeDG | and fun |
| 22:52.01 | Nafai | Thanks |
| 22:52.05 | blau-MikeDG | i feel like someone could cut and paste sections from there and make almost any app in the market now, except mine, cause they are special |
| 22:52.08 | blau-MikeDG | :) |
| 22:52.29 | michaelnovakjr__ | haha |
| 22:52.31 | michaelnovakjr__ | people have |
| 22:52.39 | michaelnovakjr__ | how many notepad apps are on the market? |
| 22:52.53 | michaelnovakjr__ | its stupid.... why put it on the market when you didn't write it :) |
| 22:53.00 | Nafai | And they probably all suck :) |
| 22:53.17 | blau-MikeDG | i made a notepad app too |
| 22:53.20 | RyeBrye | The only part that really bugs me is that I'm used to nice tools that make object persistence easy |
| 22:53.22 | blau-MikeDG | i didnt put it on the market though |
| 22:53.24 | blau-MikeDG | lol |
| 22:53.28 | RyeBrye | so writing my own DB adapters feels like a major PITA |
| 22:53.34 | blau-MikeDG | i think all i did was change the color and fix a handful of bugs |
| 22:53.42 | blau-MikeDG | its now yellow :) |
| 22:53.47 | blau-MikeDG | and shows lines all down the page |
| 22:54.22 | ttuttle | blau-MikeDG: /me will settle for nothing less than a spiral binding! |
| 22:54.57 | blau-MikeDG | and i made a shortcut on the desktop using anycut to just start a new page, although i forgot what i put lol |
| 22:55.12 | blau-MikeDG | i gotta run out |
| 22:55.15 | blau-MikeDG | ill catch you guys later |
| 22:55.24 | Nafai | I just wish I could use something else other than Java to do app development |
| 22:55.35 | blau-MikeDG | im a fan of java |
| 22:55.50 | JesusFreke | I hear a but? |
| 22:56.04 | blau-MikeDG | but i dont get to code at my job anymore |
| 22:56.15 | blau-MikeDG | :( |
| 22:56.21 | blau-MikeDG | thats the best but i could come up with |
| 22:56.24 | blau-MikeDG | i just like java |
| 22:56.27 | JesusFreke | oh, ok |
| 22:56.55 | JesusFreke | I guess I just imagined the but :) |
| 22:56.59 | Nafai | I'm finally in a job where I don't do Java, and it sucks that my fun projects are going to be Java :/ |
| 22:57.10 | *** join/#android unix_infidel (n=blue@unaffiliated/unixinfidel/x-8383745) |
| 22:57.13 | michaelnovakjr__ | what's wrong with Java on android? |
| 22:57.15 | JesusFreke | lol Nafai |
| 22:57.42 | michaelnovakjr__ | i am not a java lover, but i don't see why people are bummed about java on android..... they've done a nice job with it |
| 22:58.03 | JesusFreke | michael: I find the whole activity/intent thing a bit weird. But I haven't really done enough with it yet to really get to know it |
| 22:58.14 | Nafai | michaelnovakjr__: I have nothing against the Java on Android part |
| 22:58.21 | *** join/#android morrildl (n=chatzill@76-217-210-185.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net) |
| 22:58.21 | *** mode/#android [+o morrildl] by ChanServ |
| 22:58.25 | Nafai | Java is just not my funnest thing to code in |
| 22:58.33 | michaelnovakjr__ | JesusFreke: i thought it was weird at first too, but its really a great system |
| 22:58.46 | JesusFreke | *nod*. I probably just need to spend more time with it :) |
| 22:59.03 | *** part/#android bbs (n=bbs@unaffiliated/bbs) |
| 22:59.30 | michaelnovakjr__ | :) |
| 22:59.50 | michaelnovakjr__ | downloading the android source and checking out the apps packaged in there is helpful |
| 23:02.20 | d0netsFN | hey is there an official link for the dev1 g1 |
| 23:02.26 | d0netsFN | where is the ordering site |
| 23:02.32 | JesusFreke | infobot: devphone |
| 23:02.40 | JesusFreke | infobot: devphones |
| 23:02.40 | infobot | from memory, devphones is a phone with magical powers and will make all your wildest dreams come true. You can read about them here: http://code.google.com/android/dev-devices.html - in order to buy one, you have to pay a $25 to be in the "developer club" and then you can get into the back room where they keep them behind a curtain of lava. very expensive to ship outside the US, or sporting this: http://tinyurl.com/54sxg2 |
| 23:02.55 | JesusFreke | follow the link there, then pay $25 to sign up for android market |
| 23:03.00 | JesusFreke | then there's a link to buy |
| 23:03.01 | d0netsFN | lmfao |
| 23:03.43 | *** join/#android makghosh__ (n=Joy@117.201.96.84) |
| 23:03.49 | morrildl | FWIW, the "shipping charges" are no such thing: in fact they are (or at least include) customs fees |
| 23:04.00 | morrildl | I found this out earlier today |
| 23:04.14 | morrildl | so the high shipping charges for international folks are generally attributable to customs fees |
| 23:04.28 | morrildl | the site does not really make this clear, and we've asked them to tweak it |
| 23:05.09 | JesusFreke | You also have to pay tax in the US. Not sure if its everywhere, but at least in Tx |
| 23:06.10 | JesusFreke | got mine ordered, btw :) |
| 23:06.40 | JesusFreke | morrildl, do you know if they'll be shipping soonish? Or is it gonna be a long wait? |
| 23:06.54 | JesusFreke | I don't mind either way, but I would just prefer to know if I'll have to wait |
| 23:07.39 | alexissoft | hmm ... |
| 23:08.15 | ITechJunkie | Hey Jasta, how do i get the setup prompt to display again? |
| 23:08.33 | JesusFreke | itechjunkie, run gconf-editor |
| 23:08.33 | d0netsFN | hey wait do these dev devices come from tmobile or what |
| 23:08.39 | JesusFreke | and go to apps/five |
| 23:08.46 | JesusFreke | and turn off the "setup" option |
| 23:08.54 | d0netsFN | i called tmo today cause my button backlights are stuck on |
| 23:08.58 | d0netsFN | so they are sending me a new one |
| 23:09.01 | alexissoft | the dev g1 have gps like the G1 ? (this is not present on the website) |
| 23:09.04 | d0netsFN | could i pay the 25$ and just get a dev one? |
| 23:09.08 | ITechJunkie | JesusFreke: thanks man |
| 23:09.11 | JesusFreke | np :) |
| 23:09.18 | JesusFreke | been using/doing some work on five also |
| 23:10.13 | ITechJunkie | Is there a way to enable multipe watch folders? |
| 23:11.59 | JesusFreke | You can try to add them in the other option in gconf-editor |
| 23:12.19 | JesusFreke | I'm not sure how well it works though |
| 23:12.35 | JesusFreke | otherwise, just make a dummy folder and do symlinks :) |
| 23:13.03 | ITechJunkie | JesusFreke: yeah, creating a link sounds way easier :) |
| 23:13.10 | ITechJunkie | I don't wanna messup anything |
| 23:13.53 | JesusFreke | well, you can alway just delete the DB and change the configuration back |
| 23:14.15 | ITechJunkie | Makes sense |
| 23:16.26 | *** join/#android mikey| (n=mike@93-96-140-104.zone4.bethere.co.uk) |
| 23:16.41 | mikey| | is there any way to emulator low memory conditions on the emulator? |
| 23:16.57 | JesusFreke | make an app that allocates a lot of memory? |
| 23:17.31 | mikey| | i was hoping for a more controllable way, like settings the memory to a certain amount |
| 23:19.12 | *** join/#android RyeBrye_ (n=RyeBrye@108.248.sfcn.org) |
| 23:19.15 | rev_ott | you could just find a way to get it to boot vista |
| 23:19.27 | rev_ott | har |
| 23:19.46 | d0netsFN | lol |
| 23:19.48 | JesusFreke | chuckles |
| 23:20.24 | *** join/#android chrisr (i=5accbc9e@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-6005295666c7fbcb) |
| 23:20.59 | *** join/#android Dolomite (n=dolomite@adsl-074-184-186-176.sip.asm.bellsouth.net) |
| 23:24.53 | d0netsFN | has anyone purched the dev g1? |
| 23:24.59 | d0netsFN | does it ship from google? |
| 23:25.10 | JesusFreke | I've ordered mine |
| 23:25.13 | RyeBrye | I robbed a train full of them |
| 23:25.13 | JesusFreke | and no clue :) |
| 23:25.18 | RyeBrye | and I'm burning them right now |
| 23:25.23 | RyeBrye | No human should have such power |
| 23:25.37 | d0netsFN | lol |
| 23:25.38 | JesusFreke | cackles maniacly |
| 23:25.40 | *** join/#android chab7 (n=kvirc@212.92.4.114) |
| 23:25.43 | chrisr | helllo |
| 23:25.44 | d0netsFN | jesus where do you order it |
| 23:25.46 | d0netsFN | is it a google site |
| 23:25.48 | d0netsFN | or tmo site |
| 23:25.50 | d0netsFN | or what |
| 23:25.56 | JesusFreke | infobot: devphones |
| 23:25.56 | infobot | extra, extra, read all about it, devphones is a phone with magical powers and will make all your wildest dreams come true. You can read about them here: http://code.google.com/android/dev-devices.html - in order to buy one, you have to pay a $25 to be in the "developer club" and then you can get into the back room where they keep them behind a curtain of lava. very expensive to ship outside the US, or sporting this: http://tinyurl.com/54sxg2 |
| 23:25.57 | RyeBrye | infobot: tell d0netsFN about devphones |
| 23:26.00 | JesusFreke | that link |
| 23:26.07 | d0netsFN | i know that |
| 23:26.08 | d0netsFN | i went there |
| 23:26.13 | d0netsFN | im at the 25$ market fee |
| 23:26.16 | rev_ott | Mine runs on marshmallows and rainbows and has more than one widget. |
| 23:26.19 | JesusFreke | yeah, you have to do that |
| 23:26.30 | JesusFreke | and then on teh next page there's the link to actually buy it |
| 23:26.42 | d0netsFN | right my question is |
| 23:26.49 | d0netsFN | that link, where is it |
| 23:26.58 | JesusFreke | it's some other company actually |
| 23:26.59 | d0netsFN | i mean, is it a google. link |
| 23:27.02 | d0netsFN | or sears |
| 23:27.06 | d0netsFN | maceys |
| 23:27.13 | chrisr | Does anyone know how I can sort this java problem : "Compliance level '1.4' is incompatible with target level '1.5'. A compliance level '1.5' or better is required" ? |
| 23:27.16 | JesusFreke | brightstarcorp |
| 23:27.33 | JesusFreke | it's like google.brightstarcorp.com or something like that |
| 23:27.39 | JesusFreke | definitely not tmob at least |
| 23:28.04 | d0netsFN | ok thats what i was asking |
| 23:28.07 | JesusFreke | http://android.brightstarcorp.com/ |
| 23:28.24 | JesusFreke | (just out of curiosity, what happens when you go there?) |
| 23:28.32 | JesusFreke | without regestering for the market |
| 23:28.51 | JesusFreke | probably just get redirected.. |
| 23:28.55 | d0netsFN | it redirects me to the 25$ market fee |
| 23:28.56 | ITechJunkie | it redirects you back to market.android |
| 23:29.04 | JesusFreke | gotcha. figured :) |
| 23:29.07 | morrildl | alexissoft: yes, the devphone has GPS |
| 23:29.20 | JesusFreke | morrildl, great. good to know :) |
| 23:29.24 | morrildl | JesusFreke: AFAIK they should ship right away, modulo business hours |
| 23:29.25 | d0netsFN | is it the same batter : / |
| 23:29.33 | d0netsFN | battery |
| 23:29.34 | JesusFreke | morrildl, great! :) |
| 23:29.38 | JesusFreke | thanks :) |
| 23:29.45 | d0netsFN | have you guys seen the 1600 mah batter? |
| 23:29.48 | d0netsFN | battery* |
| 23:30.11 | *** join/#android makghosh_ (n=Joy@117.201.96.60) |
| 23:30.16 | d0netsFN | infobot: 1600 batter |
| 23:30.25 | *** join/#android treb0r (n=rob@89.21.12.17) |
| 23:30.28 | d0netsFN | fuck i give up, i cant spell battery |
| 23:30.34 | JesusFreke | you just did. |
| 23:30.39 | JesusFreke | :D |
| 23:31.43 | alexissoft | morrildl: thanks |
| 23:31.59 | chrisr | is everyone on here an android developer? |
| 23:32.08 | d0netsFN | i doubt it |
| 23:32.16 | offby1 | Not I. |
| 23:32.17 | d0netsFN | i mean im not really a dev |
| 23:32.19 | offby1 | I am but a slacker. |
| 23:32.23 | d0netsFN | but im trying to port an app |
| 23:32.29 | JesusFreke | I wasn't, until I bought the dev phone. |
| 23:32.31 | RyeBrye | morrildl: for those of us who might want to jump back between the OSS build and the one that ships with the phone (with the proprietary stuff like Youtube / market) - will there be a place to download a complete image of the Dev phone to restore to? |
| 23:32.40 | *** part/#android mikey| (n=mike@93-96-140-104.zone4.bethere.co.uk) |
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| 23:33.58 | chrisr | Could you look at this output from the ant script and tell me whats going wrong? I haven't a clue : |
| 23:34.30 | chrisr | debug: [echo] Packaging bin/HelloWorld-debug.apk, and signing it with a debug key... [exec] Using keystore: /home/chrisr/.android/debug.keystore [exec] null BUILD FAILED /home/chrisr/code/android/build.xml:230: exec returned: 1 |
| 23:35.01 | chrisr | anyone any ideas? |
| 23:35.44 | morrildl | RyeBrye: we intend that there is, yes. We are trying to work out with HTC where to host the actual build |
| 23:35.57 | morrildl | RyeBrye: but currently there isn't one |
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| 23:36.08 | RyeBrye | morrildl: fair enough, just double checking :) |
| 23:36.15 | RyeBrye | morrildl: I'll host it for you, just DCC it to me ;) |
| 23:36.27 | morrildl | heh :) |
| 23:36.35 | blau-MikeDG | im holding off on buying the devphone |
| 23:36.43 | blau-MikeDG | until i can find a build with youtube, market, etc... |
| 23:37.35 | RyeBrye | blau-MikeDG: it ships with those things - so like I was pestering morrildl - having a restore is at least a good start |
| 23:38.03 | RyeBrye | blau-MikeDG: obviously the upgrade path for that will also need to be defined somehow - since we can't exactly build YouTube 2.0 from source - they'll have to provide some way to get it out to dev phone users |
| 23:38.18 | JesusFreke | or just steal it from G1 builds ;) |
| 23:38.50 | blau-MikeDG | rye: it ships with them, so does that mean i can pull them off my build and just drop them in? |
| 23:38.59 | blau-MikeDG | when i put my own build on? |
| 23:39.12 | JesusFreke | blau: probably |
| 23:39.23 | RyeBrye | well... I think you can just pull the apks and resign them - but I don't know the official way of doing this |
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| 23:39.44 | JesusFreke | that's what I did with some of the apps that I included in the newest modified RC8 update |
| 23:39.46 | blau-MikeDG | ok, ill just wait till someone confirms |
| 23:39.57 | blau-MikeDG | sounds good though |
| 23:40.02 | JesusFreke | just took them from RC30 and dumped them in the /system/app folder.. |
| 23:40.23 | blau-MikeDG | glad to see this working out |
| 23:40.32 | blau-MikeDG | go google |
| 23:41.25 | blau-MikeDG | i think htc just realised they could sucker me into another phone tho |
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| 23:42.57 | [nine] | anyone tried copying the amazon mp3 apk from a us build to a uk phone and seen if it works? |
| 23:44.21 | blau-MikeDG | bug or feature, even if you have vibrate for ringing turned off and and set the profile to vibrate, the phone still vibrates |
| 23:44.24 | [nine] | probably won't work, as the amazon account used for purchasing needs a us registered credit card, but you never know if there's been any sloppy programming with the checks. |
| 23:44.37 | [nine] | blau-MikeDG: feature. |
| 23:44.47 | [nine] | i didn't find the vibrate mode until about a week ago. |
| 23:44.59 | [nine] | i kept on holding power and selecting silent mode. |
| 23:45.12 | [nine] | then wondered why it didn't vibrate. |
| 23:45.28 | blau-MikeDG | grr i dont like it |
| 23:46.17 | _avatar | [nine]: the US amazon mp3 apk won't let you purchase in the UK |
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| 23:49.45 | dcordes | tmzt_, this would be a better place to discuss this |
| 23:50.08 | tmzt_ | dcordes: sure |
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| 23:54.06 | Andomic | anyone tried the DriodFtp yet? |
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| 23:56.57 | dcordes | Andomic, what does it do? |
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| 23:58.40 | Zer0reZ | oh a true dev phone option! |
| 23:59.04 | Zer0reZ | i wish they hadn't introduced it right before the holidays |
| 23:59.24 | blau-MikeDG | i wish they hadnt released it 2 months after the other |
| 23:59.25 | [nine] | dcordes: does the name not give it away? :) |
| 23:59.32 | [nine] | agrees with blau-MikeDG |
| 23:59.48 | Zer0reZ | blau-MikeDG: true |
| 23:59.55 | [nine] | if i'd know there was going to be a dev model, i'd have stumped up the cash rather than going on contract. |
