| 00:00.10 | kcoury | how would you go about doing it manually? |
| 00:00.35 | zhobbs | check the docs for Activity.onConfigurationChanged(...) |
| 00:02.42 | ugarit | ah finally got rc30 from rc19 :-) |
| 00:03.41 | kcoury | thanks for the info zhobbs, I might look into that instead |
| 00:04.29 | zhobbs | kcoury: I like it for layouts that don't change much between portrait/landscape |
| 00:04.48 | zhobbs | but if the layout changes a lot then it's nice to have layout-land, drawable-land, etc |
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| 00:08.45 | kcoury | yeah I know what you mean, hopefully this works out for me. I'd rather not have the application restart on an orientation change |
| 00:11.46 | DarkriftX | android is dead today :S |
| 00:12.01 | offby1 | uh oh |
| 00:12.07 | DarkriftX | when each hour of chat fits in one screen, you know its slow |
| 00:12.24 | filosofico | hi ... there is a way to be sure that only a "trusted" application can emit a certain type of Intent OR a way to know if an intent came from a "trusted" application? ... thanks |
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| 00:20.59 | tauno | does anyone knows how to tell a ScrollView that "hey dude, your child View just got bigger, it's time to update that scrollbar that you have there to match the new size" ? |
| 00:21.19 | kcoury | zhobbs: manually handling the change did the trick, everything is working as expected including my layout. thank you for all your help |
| 00:21.29 | zhobbs | kcoury: np |
| 00:23.12 | tauno | It's really bothering me that the ScrollVIew won't update it's scrollbar values (sometimes.. most of the time it plays along nicely) |
| 00:24.19 | KNY | tauno, there isn't a redraw() or repaint() method? |
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| 00:26.03 | zhobbs | tauno: invalidate? |
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| 00:30.42 | orci | hi is there an imap client that can actually delete the mails |
| 00:31.07 | PoohbaLT | Can I request that all of you that have the G1 call in and email/submit an email request asking for the ability to attach files to emails. They told me if more people asked they might make it a feature. Also to have it change from 10sec or whatever the timeout is for when you are on a call |
| 00:31.26 | tauno | zhobbs, will try |
| 00:31.44 | tauno | KNY, I invalidate() should take care of it.. I'll try it |
| 00:31.58 | tauno | (requestLayout on the ScrollView didn't help) |
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| 00:34.13 | KNY | is there a way to get the View the currently has focus? |
| 00:34.17 | PoohbaLT | is there a way to save/trasfer your text messages to your computer? |
| 00:36.33 | d03boy | no |
| 00:39.38 | offby1 | PoohbaLT: wish I knew |
| 00:40.05 | offby1 | I still haven't found a way of taking notes on my phone that 1) is really convenient and 2) replicates the notes to google or somewhere similar |
| 00:41.57 | tauno | zhobbs, thanks.. that did the trick :) (I somehow thought that it has nothing to to with painting but measuring stuff :) ) |
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| 00:44.00 | SystemWizard | so is AndroidIRC available for general download anywhere? |
| 00:44.16 | KNY | SystemWizard, there are a few android IRC clients in the works |
| 00:44.23 | KNY | we'll see which ones become available first |
| 00:44.41 | KNY | offby1, Android is really missing Google Docs integration |
| 00:44.47 | d03boy | . |
| 00:44.56 | offby1 | KNY: I was surprised that it doesn't replicate its bookmarks somewhere, too. |
| 00:45.10 | offby1 | Google _used_ to have a "bookmarks" product that would be the natural choice, but I think they abandoned it |
| 00:45.17 | offby1 | (just as well; it wasn't useful) |
| 00:45.17 | KNY | there also isn't a way to reorder your bookmarks |
| 00:45.23 | SystemWizard | yea I was surprised to find that Google Notebook wasn't integrated in the G1 "out of the box"... |
| 00:45.24 | KNY | offby1, Google Browser Sync--I used it :( |
| 00:45.25 | offby1 | we need foxmarks on the Android! |
| 00:45.30 | offby1 | KNY: yeah, that was it. |
| 00:45.38 | offby1 | wait, actually that was something else. |
| 00:45.45 | offby1 | It was great when it worked, which was only occasionally. |
| 00:45.45 | SystemWizard | more surprising was that there's no published API for writing to google notebook entries.. only reading them |
| 00:45.55 | offby1 | yeah, notebook would be fine too |
| 00:46.15 | SystemWizard | i started to look into writing a google notebook client.. |
| 00:46.31 | SystemWizard | when I dug around and found that there is no published API for writing to the notebook.. |
| 00:46.37 | SystemWizard | at least *I* couldn't find one.. |
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| 00:53.52 | KNY | SystemWizard, time to fire up Ethereal and get to work ;) |
| 00:54.22 | SystemWizard | KNY |
| 00:54.26 | offby1 | eww |
| 00:54.28 | SystemWizard | I knew someone would say that |
| 00:54.32 | SystemWizard | :D |
| 00:54.37 | offby1 | s/Ethereal/wireshark/ anyway |
| 00:54.45 | SystemWizard | yea and then they change stuff around and bork my hard work... |
| 00:54.46 | KNY | offby1, yeah, I couldn't think of the new name |
| 00:54.55 | offby1 | KNY: I'm amazed I remembered. |
| 00:54.55 | SystemWizard | but eventually I'll dig in and try just that |
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| 01:13.49 | noodleyappendage | what's new people? |
| 01:15.16 | geist | falls to his knees, not worthy to be in the presence of hisnoodlyappendage |
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| 01:20.36 | offby1 | wields a +3 Parmesan Cheese |
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| 01:31.23 | Gary135791 | So why hasn't anyone made a nice app to kill processes with a GUI? |
| 01:32.29 | d03boy | "So why hasn't anyone made __________?" |
| 01:32.36 | d03boy | because they're already busy making _______ |
| 01:35.39 | Gary135791 | d03boy: except this is something pretty much everyones wanted/needed |
| 01:35.58 | unix_infidel | Gary135791: you mean like....*gasp*...task manager. |
| 01:36.14 | Gary135791 | unix_infidel: everything I've seen hasn't allowed you to kill |
| 01:36.16 | Gary135791 | but yes :P |
| 01:36.58 | noodleyappendage | I don't think you need it |
| 01:37.07 | noodleyappendage | quit talking like an addict |
| 01:38.29 | noodleyappendage | killing apps...everyones doin it |
| 01:38.37 | shackan | Gary135791: eh? there is already one |
| 01:38.43 | Gary135791 | name? |
| 01:39.09 | shackan | don't know, the gnome-system-monitor thing |
| 01:39.46 | shackan | argh |
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| 01:39.57 | shackan | I didn't realize I was in #android |
| 01:40.06 | shackan | nevermind |
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| 01:42.00 | Gary135791 | haha :P |
| 01:42.00 | KNY | shackan, haha |
| 01:42.07 | noodleyappendage | what is the point of this video? you can't read it... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j8XseabG5j0 |
| 01:42.28 | noodleyappendage | anyone know where I can get a higher res version? |
| 01:42.53 | KNY | yeah, code.google.com/android |
| 01:42.56 | KNY | ;) |
| 01:44.42 | noodleyappendage | I don't see it on code.google.com/android |
| 01:45.10 | KNY | noodleyappendage, I was referring to this: http://code.google.com/android/intro/index.html |
| 01:45.17 | KNY | though it's not a video |
| 01:45.29 | unix_infidel | noodleyappendage: dont think there is one |
| 01:46.10 | unix_infidel | you're better off finding a screencast instead of a presentation. |
| 01:46.28 | unix_infidel | though, jason's talk there is pretty good for a cursory look at android. |
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| 02:32.39 | Gamma-x | hey im having trouble sending pictures on my g1 anyone know why I cant send them but i can recieve? It shows up on the other phone as a blank message |
| 02:34.06 | spikebike | yeah, I've had problems sending, I just assume the g1 sends too high a resolution for some other phones |
| 02:35.38 | Gamma-x | so anyway to fix that? |
| 02:37.55 | spikebike | I suspect you'd have to recompile the app |
| 02:38.05 | spikebike | there's no menu that I found |
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| 02:57.26 | Maxpower57 | Sorry to ask a question that Im *sure* has gotten asked 40 times today. but, Is there any hint on when video support for android will come? |
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| 03:01.48 | Hiro2 | max: there's a simple application you can download to watch videos |
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| 03:03.12 | bert0 | what is the easiest way to transfer files between android and linux pc via lan |
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| 03:03.26 | Maxpower57 | err, i mean video recording, sorry. |
| 03:03.44 | Disconnect | the community should write it |
| 03:04.13 | gambler_ | Google controls the means of production |
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| 03:04.58 | Maxpower57 | im supprised it hans't been written already.. its a huge oversight |
| 03:05.21 | kslater | could be it's been written and is just being withheld |
| 03:05.30 | Maxpower57 | true |
| 03:05.36 | Disconnect | huger than a working email client, or backup/restore ability? |
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| 03:06.17 | Maxpower57 | yes actually. |
| 03:06.19 | Hiro2 | btw anybody here good with alw? |
| 03:06.28 | Hiro2 | law* |
| 03:06.45 | Disconnect | Hiro2: DannyB during the week. law-type from the goog. |
| 03:06.58 | kslater | the goog |
| 03:07.00 | Disconnect | but relaly, you need to get your own councel |
| 03:07.11 | kslater | that's what we've been calling our G1 phones |
| 03:07.13 | Hiro2 | just a question in general |
| 03:07.23 | Hiro2 | what's the worst that can happen when you get arrested for trespassing? |
| 03:07.40 | kslater | depends on what country you're in |
| 03:07.41 | Maxpower57 | does google plan out the major update releases for android? or are they just happening when they happen? |
| 03:07.47 | Hiro2 | US, florida |
| 03:08.10 | Disconnect | Hiro2: maybe you should ask somewhere else |
| 03:08.18 | kslater | hmm. what's trespassing a misdemeanor? |
| 03:08.19 | Hiro2 | Disconnect: lol very true |
| 03:08.25 | Hiro2 | kslater: yes |
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| 03:08.56 | kslater | seems like you should be able to find that info online somewhere |
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| 03:09.25 | kslater | seems like a good question to ask a defense lawyer. |
| 03:09.59 | Hiro2 | sounds expensive.. |
| 03:11.19 | SystemWizard | anyone tried to use the TwoLineListItem ? |
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| 03:26.33 | thesquib | I'm using a Listview and an ArrayAdapter to populate a list on the screen. What I really want to do is modify the list - add/remove/modify items. Has anyone done this? |
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| 03:28.32 | zhobbs | I've never heard of garage door openers that are wifi enabled |
| 03:28.35 | zhobbs | http://androidguys.com/?p=2810 |
| 03:29.11 | zhobbs | oh, nevermind, he wrote a server and hooked to to his garage door :) |
| 03:29.17 | zhobbs | http://brad.livejournal.com/2394220.html |
| 03:29.55 | gambler_ | cool |
| 03:32.14 | gambler_ | im after some of this stuff for my crib: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smart_glass |
| 03:34.47 | zhobbs | that's cool |
| 03:36.04 | zhobbs | after I buy a house I'd like to get into some X10 stuff |
| 03:36.43 | `vip | anyone else having problems with the market atm ? |
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| 03:37.11 | `vip | trying to download some games, and it says my download will be in the background, check status blah blah .. but it's not downloading :l |
| 03:37.46 | SystemWizard | `vip: market is working from here in seattle |
| 03:37.56 | `vip | hrm weird |
| 03:40.26 | gambler_ | zhobbs, the problem with X10 from what ive heard is that is really slow |
| 03:41.06 | zhobbs | hmm, interesting |
| 03:41.20 | zhobbs | haven't researched it very much, just sounded nice to have a standard for everything |
| 03:42.38 | Andomic | hey for those who have the G1 phone, have u all upgraded ur memory card to the 8 gb? |
| 03:42.49 | zhobbs | I have |
| 03:42.57 | gambler_ | CAT 5 / WIFI seems like they could work too |
| 03:44.16 | Andomic | how much it cost ya zhobbs? |
| 03:44.27 | gambler_ | zhobbs, If I get the time at some stage I want to build a home automation system around XBMC |
| 03:44.34 | unix_infidel | gambler_: you mean the X1? |
| 03:45.01 | zhobbs | gambler_: hah, that's interesting |
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| 03:46.15 | zhobbs | Andomic: < $30 |
| 03:46.25 | zhobbs | actually, $32 after shipping |
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| 03:46.34 | Andomic | which store? |
| 03:46.39 | zhobbs | newegg |
| 03:47.00 | gambler_ | unix_infidel, X1? |
| 03:47.06 | zhobbs | looks like about $70 for 16 GB |
| 03:47.14 | unix_infidel | you said X10. |
| 03:47.18 | Andomic | oh yeh, on newegg? |
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| 03:47.29 | zhobbs | Andomic: actually, $50 |
| 03:47.31 | DannyB | Hiro2: depends on your definition of worst, where you are, etc |
| 03:47.37 | zhobbs | Andomic: http://accessories.us.dell.com/sna/productdetail.aspx?sku=A1511624&cs=19&c=us&l=en&dgc=SS&cid=27530&lid=627063 |
| 03:47.49 | zhobbs | or as low as $15/month :) |
| 03:47.50 | DannyB | Hiro2: most lawyers will give you a consult for free, call one :) |
| 03:48.11 | zhobbs | unix_infidel: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/X10_(industry_standard) |
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| 04:07.01 | bert0 | . |
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| 04:10.49 | _avatar | interesting you guys are talking about X10 stuff, i've been working on an X10 android app in my free time |
| 04:11.15 | unix_infidel | http://www.engadget.com/2008/11/16/800-mhz-cpu-packing-p565-handset-appears-on-asus-site/ |
| 04:11.27 | unix_infidel | looks to be a lot more than VGA, looks more like HVGA to me. |
| 04:11.56 | unix_infidel | though a 2.8 hvga would be crazy. |
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| 04:17.41 | spikebike | unix_infidel: not to mention less ram |
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| 04:32.30 | unix_infidel | spikebike: dunno, having a crappy display and a super fast processor that sucks battery is like buying an alienware laptop. |
| 04:32.46 | unix_infidel | more like a 12 inch alienware laptop. |
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| 04:43.08 | gambler_ | I dont understand hardware vendors |
| 04:43.25 | gambler_ | its almost like politics. why wouldnt asus put Android on that handset? |
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| 04:45.54 | RyeBrye | How much does google charge to license the Google pieces of Android? I know a person could just use android without using those parts - but I think a lot of consumers might feel ripped off if they can't use apps that have the cool mapview stuff |
| 04:46.19 | d03boy | $8 |
| 04:46.31 | RyeBrye | (I'm sure that question can't be answered here - since it's probably one of those case-by-case things... but perhaps that licensing fee is relevant) |
| 04:46.51 | RyeBrye | Yes, throwing Windows Mobile 6.1 on it is retarded |
| 04:47.00 | RyeBrye | (that asus phone, that is) |
| 04:47.27 | RyeBrye | What chipset does that "800Mhz Marvel CPU" use? |
| 04:48.01 | RyeBrye | And damnit - that Asus P565 has a SIRF Star III chipset in it ! :/ |
| 04:48.30 | Damm | kinda sad that Marvel got Intel's ARM line |
| 04:48.33 | Damm | I hate Marvel. |
| 04:49.13 | RyeBrye | "The ASUS P565 is designed to leave a deep and lasting impression. Its battery lid is lined with black synthetic leather, commanding instant respect and attention." |
| 04:49.21 | RyeBrye | Because nothing says "elegant" like fake leather |
| 04:49.30 | d03boy | wizard of oz is a great movie |
| 04:49.47 | Damm | lol RyeBrye. |
| 04:49.49 | Damm | totally |
| 04:50.10 | tech9iner | lol |
| 04:50.40 | tech9iner | decides to ship pos tmobiles rma g1 back & keeps the brand new one... |
| 04:53.29 | Damm | tech9iner, why did you get a new one anyway? |
| 04:54.25 | SystemWizard | anyone have a suggestion for a mac-based icon development tool for the artistically stunted? |
| 04:56.04 | kRutOn | Anyone know of a way to touch the data in a WebView? |
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| 05:17.28 | DarkriftX | julia stiles is hawt |
| 05:20.22 | offby1 | oh, indeed |
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| 05:41.56 | plasuinm | loook at meee I'm on irc! from my G1! wheeeeeeee! |
| 05:42.23 | *** join/#android plasuinm (n=plasuinm@m3e0e36d0.tmodns.net) |
| 05:44.00 | d03boy | no you're not |
| 05:44.03 | d03boy | anymore |
| 05:44.23 | Leeds | <nelson>Ha ha!</nelson> |
| 05:45.17 | offby1 | had the same reaction as plasuinm |
| 05:45.22 | offby1 | ... when I discovered connectbot |
| 05:50.26 | DarkriftX | he wasnt on connectbot though |
| 05:50.32 | DarkriftX | he connected from this phone :S |
| 05:50.39 | DarkriftX | look at his host |
| 05:50.54 | xsdg | someone should just up and make a netcat app |
| 05:51.03 | *** join/#android invain (n=invain@c193254.sait.samsung.co.kr) |
| 05:55.57 | d03boy | where do I find the damn XML button info |
| 05:57.37 | umdk1d3 | ive done irc over telnet/netcat before :) |
| 05:57.49 | dgilmore | DarkriftX: i use connectbot to ssh to my dedicated box were i run irssi in screen from :) |
| 05:57.57 | xsdg | umdk1d3: yeah, same here |
| 05:58.09 | umdk1d3 | altho i wasnt entirely rfc 1459 complient ;) |
| 05:58.23 | DarkriftX | lol |
| 05:58.29 | DarkriftX | neither are most irc clients :S |
| 05:58.31 | xsdg | well, rfc 1459 doesn't mean a whole lot nowadays anyway |
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| 06:07.15 | d03boy | <Button android:id="@+id/my_id" android:text="button" /> |
| 06:07.25 | d03boy | am i missing something here? it wont show up in the gui creator |
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| 06:19.23 | g1er | looks right to me :/ perhaps.. |
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| 06:19.34 | g1er | <button android:id... |
| 06:19.40 | g1er | android:text.. |
| 06:19.47 | g1er | /> |
| 06:20.18 | g1er | but i don't think breaks matter do they? |
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| 06:21.03 | d03boy | shouldnt |
| 06:21.20 | d03boy | g1er, when I launch the very simple code, it has a runtime error |
| 06:21.34 | d03boy | "stopped unexpectedly" |
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| 06:22.51 | *** join/#android jerkface03 (n=jerkface@S0106000d3a2c0806.vc.shawcable.net) |
| 06:23.50 | PINguAR_ | i have a rc30-android. is it possible to revert it back to rc29 via SD card? |
| 06:24.50 | *** join/#android JohnQ (n=JohnQ@72.14.224.1) |
| 06:25.52 | RyeBrye | PINguAR_ - the android recovery mode only accepts signed images, and will not downgrade |
| 06:26.15 | PINguAR_ | RyeBrye: are there any hacky way to do this? |
| 06:26.21 | Leeds | at this point, there is no known way (at least, known to me :-) ) to downgrade |
| 06:26.23 | JohnQ | Anyone have any words of wisdom on how to make an app which has no view, and just does a bit of work, and quits? |
| 06:26.34 | PINguAR_ | RyeBrye: my phone doesn't work after rc30, i hope it will work with rc29. :/ |
| 06:26.44 | RyeBrye | it doesn't work at all? |
| 06:26.45 | gambler_ | JohnQ, just generate HelloAndroid |
| 06:26.51 | RyeBrye | Hm |
| 06:27.00 | PINguAR_ | RyeBrye: nope, it just can't get any signals |
| 06:27.01 | JohnQ | gambler_: my helloandroid is a textview |
| 06:27.11 | RyeBrye | Hmm |
| 06:27.17 | PINguAR_ | RyeBrye: it was not tmobile, though. it was unlocked |
| 06:27.21 | gambler_ | so? |
| 06:27.48 | JohnQ | gambler_: textview is a view... |
| 06:27.56 | PINguAR_ | RyeBrye: it keeps telling "network service unavailable" |
| 06:28.23 | JohnQ | When I launch my app, I don't even want it to leave the home screen.. just run and display a toast. |
| 06:28.38 | Leeds | PINguAR_: what network, where? |
| 06:28.43 | *** join/#android After_Math (n=i8860054@adsl-99-14-133-235.dsl.lsan03.sbcglobal.net) |
| 06:28.55 | gambler_ | JohnQ, there is an example in the SDK where you can compost over the background |
| 06:28.56 | Leeds | JohnQ: can you just use a Service? |
| 06:29.08 | PINguAR_ | Leeds: in TURKEY, tried with different 3 operators: Vodafona, Avea and Turkcell |
| 06:29.12 | gambler_ | (not sure if that is the correct use of the word compost) |
| 06:29.17 | JohnQ | Hmm |
| 06:29.19 | gambler_ | but anyway you can make it transparent |
| 06:29.24 | JohnQ | Maybe a service would work.. |
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| 06:29.36 | DarkriftX | i think RyeBrye just proved the G1 is multitouch |
| 06:29.44 | JohnQ | I guess I can quit the service right after I show the toast. |
| 06:29.45 | RyeBrye | yep |
| 06:29.47 | RyeBrye | I think so |
| 06:29.55 | Leeds | gambler_: I don't think it is :-) do you mean composite? |
| 06:29.57 | DarkriftX | rye try pinching and stuff |
| 06:29.57 | After_Math | does the calendar on Android let you set reminders on a monthly basis? something like alarm clock that goes off everyday but instead goes off every month? would be awsome for bill payments reminders |
| 06:30.17 | RyeBrye | DarkriftX - The actions wont do anything, since I doubt the software uses them |
| 06:30.24 | DarkriftX | i know that |
| 06:30.30 | DarkriftX | i want to see if the numbers move properly |
| 06:30.37 | RyeBrye | oh, ok |
| 06:30.42 | After_Math | multitouch? |
| 06:30.42 | gambler_ | Leeds, no idea man. My graphics knowledge is pretty lacking. |
| 06:30.45 | gambler_ | :/ |
| 06:30.50 | Leeds | is multitouch-gesture the same as multi-tap? |
| 06:31.03 | JohnQ | Leeds: There's no reason a service cant quit right away is there? |
| 06:31.19 | RyeBrye | Yeah, it's not enabled - but there is stuff in the synaptics driver that was commented out |
| 06:31.24 | RyeBrye | It DEFINITELY tracks 2 fingers |
| 06:31.26 | Leeds | JohnQ: wouldn't think so - but then I haven't got past Hello Android yet :-) |
| 06:31.31 | JohnQ | hehe |
| 06:31.34 | JohnQ | kay. thanks |
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| 06:34.26 | gambler_ | To correct myself --> I think the correct terminology is alpha transparency. |
| 06:38.45 | Leeds | does anyone know if 'the browser' has a plugin interface? |
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| 06:44.51 | RyeBrye | Ok... The G1 screen is DEFINITELY capable of multitouch. |
| 06:44.53 | RyeBrye | now... WHY don't we have it? |
| 06:44.54 | RyeBrye | :D |
| 06:45.14 | Leeds | patents? |
| 06:45.23 | ttuttle | RyeBrye: http://www.google.com/patents?q=multitouch&btnG=Search+Patents |
| 06:45.27 | den0ts|G1 | really? |
| 06:45.41 | den0ts|G1 | call it something else |
| 06:46.02 | den0ts|G1 | you shouldnt be able tpo paytent how someone touches a touchscreen |
| 06:46.13 | Leeds | there are a lot of things you shouldn't be able to patent |
| 06:46.17 | den0ts|G1 | sorry im on the g1 |
| 06:46.45 | den0ts|G1 | what is my whois info? |
| 06:47.13 | Leeds | n=den0ts@m490e36d0.tmodns.net |
| 06:47.55 | den0ts|G1 | i wonder if it would change if i turned 3g on |
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| 06:49.59 | RyeBrye | so... license it? |
| 06:50.58 | RyeBrye | ionstorm - you around? |
| 06:51.33 | den0ts|G1 | license what |
| 06:51.40 | Leeds | in general, open source things don't license patents |
| 06:52.40 | DarkriftX | they should call it DualTouch |
| 06:52.41 | DarkriftX | heh |
| 06:52.50 | DarkriftX | doesnt mean the same as multi exactly lol |
| 06:52.55 | ttuttle | DarkriftX: Um, that wouldn't prevent it from being the same thing. |
| 06:53.03 | languish | Multitap |
| 06:53.10 | ttuttle | Patents != Trademarks |
| 06:53.12 | Leeds | patents are on technologies, not names |
| 06:54.58 | RyeBrye | yeah, patent using 2 fingers instead of N-fingers |
| 06:55.01 | RyeBrye | the patent office is retarted |
| 06:55.04 | RyeBrye | they might let it go through |
| 06:55.17 | den0ts|G1 | but how do you call it a true free market/capitalism when you make it impossible for more than 1 company (or in this case community) to evolve the product,service, or technology |
| 06:55.46 | Leeds | den0ts|G1: there are lots of writings online about how the current patent system is broken |
| 06:56.26 | Leeds | RyeBrye: if the patent was written by a patent lawyer, it probably covers toes and unlimited numbers of fingers |
| 06:57.14 | *** join/#android neerhaj (i=neerhaj@203.115.94.229) |
| 06:57.34 | RyeBrye | Well - good news... Google is behind Android so it exists |
| 06:57.52 | RyeBrye | Bad news - Google is behind android - so it'd be a huge target for a lawsuit :/ |
| 06:58.20 | den0ts|G1 | http://countercultured.net/ircbeta.apk |
| 07:02.55 | ide | hi |
| 07:05.00 | JohnQ | Leeds: Seems that a service didnt work.. apparently there is no way to launch it form the home screen :-( |
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| 07:05.24 | ide | hi |
| 07:06.45 | Leeds | I'm sure there is a way... you want to hang around a bit and bug Google people when they get online :-) |
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| 07:27.58 | _avatar | i have a ListView in a regular Activity that uses a BaseAdapter. I set each row's onClickListener in BaseAdapter.getView(). As soon as I assign an OnClickListener the row no longer displays its "pressed" state when the view is touched. I can get it to "work" by using a state drawable and specifying an <item android:state_pressed...> state, but I'd rather let the system draw this state for me. any idea what I'm doing wrong? |
| 07:28.25 | _avatar | i've done a fair amount with ListViews in the past, but I've always used custom state drawables for the rows |
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| 07:30.45 | yogesh | how dalvik, interface with kernel? |
| 07:32.04 | Fnord^- | it doesn't. if by interface you mean alter kernel settings |
| 07:34.41 | yogesh | ok, dalvik convert .jar to .dex, then how these dex executes? |
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| 07:37.36 | Leeds | they are executed by the dalvik vm |
| 07:37.37 | Fnord^- | not sure about specifics on that. |
| 07:37.45 | Fnord^- | system() or such |
| 07:37.46 | Fnord^- | heh |
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| 07:48.01 | _avatar | well, if anyone cares, the solution to my listview row problem was to just set the view's background to "@android:drawable/list_selector_background" |
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| 08:37.54 | RyeBrye | In case anyone is interested in the multitouch bit... http://www.ryebrye.com/blog/2008/11/17/proving-the-g1-screen-can-handle-multi-touch/ |
| 08:44.54 | languish | RyeBrye, good post |
| 08:45.09 | RyeBrye | The easiest place to see is on the 2 fingers flicking left or flicking right |
| 08:45.39 | RyeBrye | (at least for me - since it's easy to just look at the X's and see the Y's stay roughtly the same) |
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| 08:50.46 | Neverender1 | http://www.mobilecrunch.com/2008/11/16/adobe-to-demo-flash-on-mobile-but-only-windows-still-working-on-the-iphone/ |
| 08:50.55 | Neverender1 | says something about an android port |
| 08:51.00 | Neverender1 | for flash |
| 08:51.12 | RyeBrye | lame |
| 08:52.59 | Neverender1 | heh |
| 08:53.07 | Neverender1 | very interesting post RyeBrye |
| 08:53.12 | Neverender1 | about the multithouch |
| 08:53.18 | RyeBrye | Yeah. Kind of sucks that it's not being used |
| 08:54.30 | RyeBrye | it was ionstorm that made me reconsider it - I thought people were crazy to even think it would be so stupid to have a multitouch screen and not use it |
| 08:54.48 | Neverender1 | yeah |
| 08:54.56 | *** join/#android aufegu-_ (n=angu@116.41.93.89) |
| 08:55.14 | Neverender1 | its probably patents, like you said |
| 08:55.28 | RyeBrye | I prefer to consider wild-ass conspiracy theories... |
| 08:55.31 | RyeBrye | :) |
| 08:55.35 | RyeBrye | but yeah, most likely patents |
| 08:55.47 | RyeBrye | But... Isn't Eric Schmidt on Apple's board... ;) |
| 08:55.51 | *** join/#android cutmasta (n=cutmasta@62.225.134.181) |
| 08:56.15 | Neverender1 | heh |
| 08:56.16 | Fnord^- | what I wanna know is why is voice search going on iphone but not android |
| 08:56.39 | RyeBrye | Google obivously puts all their good mobile phone developers on their iPhone projects! ;) |
| 08:56.54 | Neverender1 | maybe it will be in the next update |
| 08:56.56 | Neverender1 | who knows |
| 08:56.56 | RyeBrye | (j/k - google folks lurking here... Just wanted to throw a jab) |
| 08:57.05 | RyeBrye | The multitouch? That's a really big thing to put in a software update |
| 08:57.09 | RyeBrye | but yeah, it would be nice to have |
| 08:57.13 | tauno | Fnord^-, http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/technology/2008/11/google-iphone-a.html "Google's voice search: Why on iPhone, not Android?" |
| 08:58.05 | RyeBrye | I'm pretty sure I could write google voice search for Android |
| 08:58.11 | RyeBrye | Since it already has voice recognition built into it |
| 08:58.19 | Neverender1 | 2`.- |
| 08:58.27 | Neverender1 | oops |
| 08:58.35 | languish | wtf tmo |
| 08:58.56 | Fnord^- | ahh |
| 08:58.58 | RyeBrye | s/voice/speech/ |
| 08:59.15 | RyeBrye | Oh. it must be a private API now though |
| 08:59.32 | Fnord^- | testing tiepo |
| 08:59.39 | Fnord^- | s/tiepo/typo/ |
| 08:59.45 | Fnord^- | hah, neat |
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| 09:08.05 | RyeBrye | WEll... the beauty of open source... |
| 09:09.21 | RyeBrye | People with rooted phones can reflash their stuff - so if we can figure out if the google proprietary stuff can be mixed in with the normal open source build to enable the MapView stuff and the YouTube app... etc. - we could probably create our own git place to put multitouch patches and just have our own wildly patent-infringing version that we would never of course install... but just maintain code for ;) |
| 09:09.37 | RyeBrye | and host the git repo somewhere like sweden or china or something |
| 09:10.50 | Fnord^- | it's not possible for any 3rd party vm app to access /data/data/com.android.providers.settings/databases/settings.db |
| 09:10.52 | Fnord^- | yeah? |
| 09:11.34 | Leeds | RyeBrye: I believe it's been said that Eric Schmidt recuses himself from anything to do with phones at Apple |
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| 09:13.43 | RyeBrye | Leeds - Yeah, I've heard that too - but I was just concocting a crazy conspiracy theory and ignoring occam's razor ;) |
| 09:14.05 | Leeds | damn that Occam! |
| 09:17.51 | Fnord^- | hmmm http proxy settings don't seem to work anymore |
| 09:19.37 | irig | Hi all i am using ubantu |
| 09:20.24 | irig | do we need to follow all the steps tht are mentioned in http://source.android.com/download to build android ? |
| 09:20.48 | irig | actually i have the android source code |
| 09:20.50 | soundmonster | irig: yes |
| 09:21.40 | irig | but when i try to build it throws some error like this "Java module does not define any source or resource files. Stop." |
| 09:22.04 | soundmonster | irig: did you use repo for checking out the code? |
| 09:22.14 | soundmonster | or did you use plain git commands? |
| 09:22.55 | soundmonster | btw, check out your alternatives for java, it may be that you still have some links pointing to gcj |
| 09:23.36 | irig | do i need all those installations which are mentioned in the link > |
| 09:23.36 | irig | git-core ,sun-java6-jdk,flex bison gperf libsdl-dev libesd0-dev libwxgtk2.6-dev build-essential zip curl libncurses5-dev,valgrind ? |
| 09:24.15 | soundmonster | yes, except velgrind - it is optional. |
| 09:26.52 | irig | as said in the doc i am directly going into the android code and trying out make |
| 09:26.52 | irig | But i am not doing the steps which are mentioned in "Setting up your machine" |
| 09:26.52 | irig | i think i am wrong right ? |
| 09:26.52 | irig | please confirm |
| 09:28.00 | soundmonster | yes, you are :-) If google posts a howto for ubuntu, isn't it obvious that you should follow it? |
| 09:28.15 | soundmonster | you have at least to set the environment vars |
| 09:28.18 | Leeds | or to put it differently - why are you ignoring the instructions? |
| 09:30.28 | irig | Ok thnx soundmonster and Leeds |
| 09:31.04 | irig | i was ignoring those instructions because i already had the downloaded source code through one of my friend |
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| 09:31.37 | irig | so i thought i can use the code stright forward and do a make on the code |
| 09:31.46 | soundmonster | okay, np |
| 09:32.01 | irig | But it guess it needs JDK for compiling |
| 09:32.11 | Leeds | did you try running ./configure first? |
| 09:33.35 | soundmonster | irig: it needs a whole lot to compile :-) and yes, the SunJDK, to be precise. |
| 09:34.19 | irig | where is this ./configure ? |
| 09:34.23 | soundmonster | Leeds: there is no configure script in the build system, why run ./configure? |
| 09:34.31 | soundmonster | irig: i guess, nowhere |
| 09:34.49 | Leeds | soundmonster: <sarcasm>did you try running ./configure first?</sarcasm> |
| 09:35.02 | soundmonster | :-X |
| 09:35.40 | soundmonster | i'll bet irig never compiled an autotools package before, why confuse him/her? |
| 09:36.01 | Leeds | why do you bet that? |
| 09:36.27 | soundmonster | <quote>irig: where is this ./configure ?</quote> |
| 09:39.18 | Leeds | he/she seemed to think he/she knew better than the instructions... |
| 09:40.22 | soundmonster | okay, yeah, you can put it this way :-) but i think he/she only thought that the instructions only concern downloading the code. |
| 09:41.03 | irig | ayways i will use instructions |
| 09:41.20 | soundmonster | yep, good idea :-) good luch |
| 09:41.24 | soundmonster | s/lich/luck |
| 09:41.39 | Leeds | good lunch, yes |
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| 09:43.11 | soundmonster | a bit too early for lunch? we have 10:41 right now :-) (btw, seems that i need a new keyboard ) |
| 09:43.53 | sujith | where can i found the Userspace HAL codes in android source code? |
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| 09:53.37 | infernixx | j #hortongroup |
| 09:53.56 | sujith | any one has any porting experience of android on real hardware? |
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| 10:21.41 | sujith | anybody there? |
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| 10:31.09 | Fnord^- | yah |
| 10:32.54 | Fnord^- | someone here familiar with iptables? :> |
| 10:33.31 | *** join/#android llight (n=chatzill@CBL217-132-144-179.bb.netvision.net.il) |
| 10:34.30 | llight | Does android supports named semaphores and shared memory ? both POSIX and SYSV API failed.. (POSIX doesn't compile, SYSV return -ENOSYS in runtime) |
| 10:35.02 | tauno | are there nay good examples how to save the state of Dialogs when changing orientations? I'm currently just leaking the Dialogs but i wonder how I could save/restore them so they "survive" the onDestory() onCreate() |
| 10:37.18 | tric | llight: for native code? i doubt that. they stipped the libc and stuff alot |
| 10:38.11 | tric | and they implemented their own ipc in kernel layer for dalvik, so there is no reason to add native ipc. maybe try to port aidl to use from C or C++ |
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| 10:38.49 | llight | tric: yeah but I see sysv ipc code in the kernel, and bionic stubs, so i'm not sure what's going on there |
| 10:39.19 | tric | android specific code or only left overs from vanilla tree? |
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| 10:39.56 | llight | well in the kernel it's standard code, not android specific, and in bionic it's stubs automatically generated by a python script.. |
| 10:40.13 | tric | what are you trying to do to have a need for native ipc? |
| 10:40.45 | llight | to compile and run linux applications.. |
| 10:41.03 | llight | (native) |
| 10:41.38 | llight | any idea where should I ask about this to get an official answer ? maybe one of the mailing lists ? |
| 10:41.39 | tric | hmm, i doubt itll work for more complex apps, because of the simple libc, most depend on glibc |
| 10:42.07 | tric | "official answer"==google does not support native development on android (at this time) |
| 10:43.52 | llight | hmm. i see. thanks. any idea whether there is a mailing where i can expect answer like "yeah there is sysv ipc code in the kernel and bionic stubs but they don't work because 1. 2. 3... " ? |
| 10:43.53 | tric | you can only hope ppl like jbq, romainguy or other google folks in here may point you to a solution |
| 10:45.07 | tric | i didnt read the latest mailing lists after the closing of -internals, but iirc there is a kernel and/or porting related ml you might use. |
| 10:45.36 | llight | i see. thank you. maybe i will lurk around to see if google ppl show up soon |
| 10:46.46 | tric | but the problem remains, google doesnt support it. so dont expect much help. |
| 10:47.04 | tric | what exactly are you trying to port? |
| 10:47.08 | Fnord^- | huh. can someone do a find /androidsourceroot -name crtend_android.o and tell me if it exists? |
| 10:47.10 | llight | yeah i don't expect support. just to know whether it exists or not |
| 10:48.35 | llight | tfnord: running |
| 10:48.39 | tric | i guess it does in kernel layer, but no userland support |
| 10:48.40 | Fnord^- | kk |
| 10:48.46 | tric | |find -name crtend_android.o |
| 10:48.46 | tric | |./out/target/product/generic/obj/lib/crtend_android.o |
| 10:48.51 | Fnord^- | wtf |
| 10:49.08 | llight | tric: nothing specific right now. i'm checking to see if it's possible before i put too much effort.. |
| 10:49.13 | Fnord^- | i think 'make clean' destroyed stuff :-O rebuilding doesn't work |
| 10:49.32 | Fnord^- | can you possibly send a tar of ./out/target/product/generic/obj/lib/ ? :P |
| 10:49.42 | tric | llight: maybe youll have to port the posix stuff yourself ;) |
| 10:49.53 | Fnord^- | just uses glibc heh |
| 10:50.10 | tric | fnord: shouldnt git revert help you? |
| 10:50.14 | llight | tric: hey no probs but i'd hate to see it already exists ;) |
| 10:50.30 | Fnord^- | hm |
| 10:50.31 | Fnord^- | mebbie |
| 10:50.33 | llight | fnord: my find returned empty handed |
| 10:50.33 | Fnord^- | tries |
| 10:50.35 | tric | fnord: you got a ported glibc for current android? |
| 10:51.00 | Fnord^- | tric: it's from the codesorcery tarball |
| 10:51.08 | tric | llight: did you do a full make on your tree? |
| 10:51.27 | llight | tric: nope, it's still fresh |
| 10:51.49 | llight | brb |
| 10:52.01 | blau | ugh dont feel good |
| 10:52.48 | tric | llight: thats why you are missing .o ;) |
| 10:57.19 | Fnord^- | http://www.codesourcery.com/gnu_toolchains/arm/portal/package3397/public/arm-none-linux-gnueabi/arm-2008q3-41-arm-none-linux-gnueabi-i686-pc-linux-gnu.tar.bz2 |
| 10:57.28 | Fnord^- | oh neat they have uclibc |
| 10:57.50 | Fnord^- | err no uclinux. hrm |
| 10:58.48 | tric | yes, im using the codesourcery toolchain, but didnt try to use the glibc on android device, does it actually work? |
| 10:59.21 | tric | i would expect itll break some android stuff, like logcat logging |
| 11:00.36 | Fnord^- | It works. Especially seeing as nothing uses /lib |
| 11:05.27 | tric | interesting |
| 11:05.56 | tric | but i guess most uses /system/lib? |
| 11:08.16 | Fnord^- | Yah. |
| 11:18.18 | Fnord^- | bionic really does suck.. |
| 11:18.19 | Fnord^- | pty.c:145: error: 'I_PUSH' undeclared (first use in this function) |
| 11:20.34 | llight | hey i see android has some own shared memory implementation in the kernel: mm/ashmem.c |
| 11:20.38 | llight | any idea what that is ? |
| 11:21.04 | tric | prolly the kernel level for the aidl solution |
| 11:21.26 | llight | what's aidl ? |
| 11:23.17 | tric | the android ipc solution. http://code.google.com/android/reference/aidl.html |
| 11:24.07 | llight | thx i'll look into it. btw i see that the property service uses this ashmem |
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| 11:36.32 | Fnord^- | Linking against android's libcrypto is a PITA, too |
| 11:37.54 | sujith | does any one has any idea Media Framework of Android? |
| 11:37.57 | tric | well, android is not linux, so dont expect linux stuff to work ;) |
| 11:39.19 | Fnord^- | It's especially problematic because the build system doesn't echo commands. :P |
| 11:39.43 | sujith | android/external/opencore/codecs_v2/video/ is it the correct path of video codecs? |
| 11:40.33 | Fnord^- | i have that directory |
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| 12:03.46 | Fnord^- | http://n1.fnord.to/stunnel-native :P |
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| 12:08.47 | Fnord^- | saves openvpn for tomorrow lest he stay up 3 more hours |
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| 12:24.23 | sujith | in android there is kernel folder which contains the linux kernel and we can create the kernel image by executing the make file inside the kernel folder |
| 12:24.53 | sujith | once the image is created we can port the kernel image to memory og the hardware and boot from there |
| 12:25.42 | sujith | but my doubt is there are many things lying outside this kernel folder like video codecs , java apllications etc , how we will port all those stuffs on the hardware |
| 12:25.43 | sujith | ? |
| 12:26.15 | sujith | if i wanna write a driver for a specific hardware how i am going to make it work in case of android? |
| 12:33.04 | sujith | does anyone has any answer for my question? |
| 12:35.26 | offby1 | generally, silence implies "no" |
| 12:35.57 | tric | and noone can tell if anyone has any answer |
| 12:36.19 | llight | hey anyone knows what is the kernel/drivers/android/pmem.c driver for ? |
| 12:36.41 | sujith | ok then whats the use of this chat |
| 12:36.48 | sujith | if no one wants to answer |
| 12:37.27 | offby1 | the use is: sometimes people _do_ answer. |
| 12:37.36 | sujith | we are here to share our thoughts and clear our doubts |
| 12:38.00 | offby1 | and saying "no one wants to answer" implies that some of us know the answer, but are perversely remaining silent, just to piss you off; whereas it's more likely that nobody actually knows the answer. |
| 12:38.05 | sujith | if anyone who knows the answer remains silent then he has no right to stay here in this chat |
| 12:38.34 | Neverender1 | lol |
| 12:38.43 | llight | :) |
| 12:39.16 | sujith | it seems like a irc chat now ;) |
| 12:39.50 | sujith | we need participation not silence :) |
| 12:40.31 | tric | llight: pmem.c sounds like power managment |
| 12:41.00 | tric | without looking at it ;) |
| 12:41.22 | llight | it's more like something with memory. that's why i'm fiddling with it - hoping to find some named shared mem implementation.. |
| 12:43.40 | tauno | Is someone wokring on a lightsaber app? One of the iPhone guys here challenged me to a fight.. |
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| 13:11.14 | tauno | huh... paint.measureText("a long string..") overflows somehow and returns a big negative number. But the text itself can't really be THAT big (p.measureText("M") * text.length() is something like 190000) |
| 13:11.21 | tauno | smells like a bug? |
| 13:12.40 | offby1 | sure |
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| 13:31.37 | tauno | wtf.. paint.measureText() uses shorts internally so when the string length goes over 32767, it overflows to -32,768.. I mean.. didn't someone realise that people need to measure bigger texts in some cases? ;) |
| 13:32.01 | tauno | and why does it return an int if it really is capable of only returning shorts.. |
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| 13:36.15 | languish | random G1 sighting http://www.reuters.com/news/pictures/rpSlideshows?articleId=USRTX8VYM20081113#a=9 |
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| 13:50.59 | `vip | when i download something, where is it stored at ... |
| 13:51.14 | `vip | when i cleared my browser history, it erased the notification also :l |
| 13:51.20 | languish | depends on how you're downloading it |
| 13:51.45 | languish | .apk's you download via the browser to install, the original file ends up on the sd card |
| 13:51.53 | languish | but it doesn't install there |
| 13:52.23 | languish | some things end up in /cache |
| 13:52.50 | languish | all depends on what you're downloading, and how |
| 13:53.04 | languish | most stuff should end up on the sd card afaik |
| 13:53.39 | languish | hahah |
| 13:53.43 | languish | err wrong channel :| |
| 13:54.25 | sujith | what is Multi Format codec in Android? |
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| 14:02.05 | pandzilla | 7wi3 |
| 14:02.08 | pandzilla | woops. |
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| 14:04.09 | *** part/#android Dougie187 (n=doug@wg-d232031.dsl.fsu.edu) |
| 14:04.19 | tauno | anyone know where the source for android.graphics.Paint is? can't find it in base.git |
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| 14:04.50 | Digital_Pioneer | Hi. What are some phones that (can) have Android on them? I'd like to stay as cheap as possible... |
| 14:05.02 | Dougie187 | The G! |
| 14:05.03 | Dougie187 | G1 |
| 14:05.11 | `vip | yeah the G1 is pretty cheap .. |
| 14:05.13 | Digital_Pioneer | Also, just saw an article saying Android has voice recognition. That's awesome, but how well does it work? |
| 14:05.16 | Digital_Pioneer | How much? |
| 14:05.16 | Dougie187 | Thats probably your best bet. |
| 14:05.22 | Dougie187 | go to tmobile.com |
| 14:05.25 | `vip | do you have Tmo ? |
| 14:05.35 | Digital_Pioneer | I don't have a plan yet. |
| 14:05.46 | `vip | with a new two year its 179 |
| 14:06.40 | jbq | tauno: http://android.git.kernel.org/?p=platform/frameworks/base.git;a=blob;f=graphics/java/android/graphics/Paint.java;h=6fac9695421584bef355b090afad53127f6f5da7;hb=master |
| 14:06.50 | Digital_Pioneer | And is it possible to flash a different OS to the G1 if I don't like Android? (I've heard some say they don't.) |
| 14:07.06 | tauno | jbq, thanks |
| 14:07.11 | Dougie187 | well, if you don't like it it's probably better to return it within 14 days. |
| 14:07.22 | Dougie187 | or, if you are thinking you won't like it, just get a different phone and don't worry about android |
| 14:07.25 | `vip | not sure Digital_Pioneer .... but yeah what Dougie187 said |
| 14:07.30 | tauno | was searching for it under the core folder :/ |
| 14:07.30 | `vip | android is pretty awesome so far |
| 14:07.45 | `vip | i came from winmo and i love android a lot more .... smoother |
| 14:07.53 | Digital_Pioneer | OK. |
| 14:08.02 | Digital_Pioneer | Great. :) |
| 14:08.11 | Digital_Pioneer | And how well does the voice recognition work? |
| 14:08.20 | jbq | tauno: system/core is the really low-level stuff. |
| 14:08.34 | tauno | ah.. measureText() is a native method.. that's partly good partly bad in my case :/ |
| 14:08.36 | `vip | not sure Digital_Pioneer, haven't used it ... |
| 14:08.48 | Digital_Pioneer | IC. |
| 14:08.57 | `vip | im sure someone here has |
| 14:09.20 | `vip | what phone do you currently have |
| 14:09.21 | jbq | tauno: yeah, most of the framework is actually thin layers around native code. |
| 14:09.26 | Digital_Pioneer | Does the G1 use WiFi? |
| 14:09.27 | *** join/#android yakischloba (n=jake@209.160.56.254) |
| 14:09.31 | jbq | (the major exception being the view system) |
| 14:09.32 | `vip | yes |
| 14:09.41 | Dougie187 | good morning yakischloba |
| 14:09.50 | Digital_Pioneer | Sweet. |
| 14:09.58 | yakischloba | morning |
| 14:10.02 | Dougie187 | hows it going? |
| 14:10.07 | yakischloba | it's so foggy i can barely see cars 20 yards in front of me riding in heh |
| 14:10.11 | Digital_Pioneer | And it's Linux-based, no? So can I access a command line? ;) |
| 14:10.15 | *** join/#android Leeds (n=richardc@n219073057022.netvigator.com) |
| 14:10.46 | Dougie187 | thats too bad. |
| 14:10.54 | jbq | Digital_Pioneer: it only has a linux kernel, and uses it very differently from desktop linux systems, so it won't look that familiar. |
| 14:10.59 | Dougie187 | at least its brighter out then it use to be at this time. |
| 14:10.59 | llight | hi, anyone knows if native shared memory is supported (I get -ENOSYS when using shmget...) ? |
| 14:11.20 | sujith | no we don't know |
| 14:11.21 | Digital_Pioneer | jbq: So no BASH? |
| 14:11.50 | jbq | Digital_Pioneer: correct. it could probably be ported, though, but it's not there by default. |
| 14:11.51 | llight | but I do see the sys_shmget code in the kernel.. |
| 14:12.07 | Digital_Pioneer | jbq: Ahh, too bad. |
| 14:12.13 | llight | and there is a stub in bionic that calls the system call.. |
| 14:12.31 | jbq | Digital_Pioneer: there's a minimum shell accessible through USB for debugging, but it's not meant to be a "production" application. |
| 14:12.46 | Digital_Pioneer | Right. |
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| 14:14.18 | llight | hi! anyone knows whether android supports system V IPC API ? |
| 14:14.35 | llight | like named shared memory, and named semaphores.. |
| 14:14.54 | llight | (talking native here, for C/C++ apps) |
| 14:14.57 | Leeds | llight: it's Linux, underneath |
| 14:15.45 | llight | Leeds: I can see the relevant kernel code but I wonder whether bionic supports it. when trying I can weird results.. |
| 14:15.49 | Digital_Pioneer | Scud. TMobile has no service in my area... Does any other carrier sell the G1? (Unsubsidized phones are too expensive. :( ) |
| 14:15.54 | llight | *can = get |
| 14:16.11 | Leeds | what's bionic? |
| 14:16.21 | llight | bionic = android c library |
| 14:16.22 | Leeds | oh, the C library? |
| 14:16.26 | llight | ya |
| 14:16.34 | Leeds | install a real libc :-) |
| 14:16.58 | llight | gulp ;) |
| 14:17.10 | jbq | Digital_Pioneer: well, technically the G1 is the name of T-Mobile's device, so I'd be surprised if you saw it under that name anywhere else. At the moment T-Mobile is the only one selling that device. |
| 14:17.39 | Digital_Pioneer | Pshht. Any other phones that use Android? |
| 14:17.56 | Digital_Pioneer | (I know the Freerunner can, and I'd love to have it, but I can't afford it) |
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| 14:18.00 | jbq | Leeds: any specific issues with bionic? All of Android runs on top of it (including all the 3rd-party code that got imported), so it can't be that bad ;-) |
| 14:18.25 | Leeds | jbq: absolutely no idea |
| 14:18.28 | jbq | Digital_Pioneer: the G1 is currently the only one. Even the FreeRunner would be very rough. |
| 14:18.45 | Leeds | the device is actually an HTC Dream, branded as G1 when sold by T-Mobile |
| 14:18.52 | Digital_Pioneer | Yeah... |
| 14:18.58 | jbq | Leeds: OK, I was just curious if you had hit a specific limitation that we weren't aware of. |
| 14:19.04 | Leeds | in theory - or in a few months when the exclusivity expires - you could see other people selling it |
| 14:19.12 | Digital_Pioneer | So can I get an HTC Dream with some other carrier and flash Android to it? |
| 14:19.17 | llight | jbq: leeds was referring to my problems with getting IPC functions to work.. any idea if bionic supports any API for named shared memory and named semaphores ? |
| 14:19.20 | Leeds | jbq: llight is the one seeing unexpected behaviour, not me |
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| 14:19.48 | Leeds | Digital_Pioneer: in theory yes, in practice no - nobody is selling a Dream other than T-Mobile... and you wouldn't need to flash Android, since it's native to the device |
| 14:20.26 | Leeds | there's almost certainly an exclusive contract in operation, and I don't know if anyone can tell you when it would end |
| 14:20.30 | jbq | Leeds: k. that looked more like a kernel issue than a bionic issue. |
| 14:20.53 | Digital_Pioneer | So T-Mobile doesn't have service in my area, therefore I can't get an Android phone. Hmm. |
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| 14:22.11 | Leeds | that's not true |
| 14:22.33 | Leeds | T-Mobile *certainly* doesn't have service in my area, since I live thousands of miles from the US... but I've got a G1 |
| 14:22.46 | Digital_Pioneer | How much did you pay for it? |
| 14:22.59 | llight | jbq: when trying to work with shmget for example I get -ENOSYS... :( |
| 14:23.35 | jbq | llight: I'm unfortunately entirely unfamiliar with those kernel APIs :( |
| 14:23.40 | Leeds | lots |
| 14:23.53 | Digital_Pioneer | Yeah, that's not good for me. :P |
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| 14:24.10 | Leeds | approx US$570 before trade-in |
| 14:24.23 | Leeds | ah, so you want a *cheap* Android device... that's not what you said |
| 14:24.35 | llight | jbq: K, thx! |
| 14:24.46 | tauno | Leeds, you got one cheap compared to me :P |
| 14:24.58 | Leeds | that reminds me... |
| 14:25.00 | Leeds | eugene: ping? |
| 14:26.04 | Digital_Pioneer | Leeds: Yeah, sorry to confuse. :) |
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| 14:26.54 | llight | jbq: any idea who should I ask about it ? |
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| 14:28.44 | jbq | llight: you could try the android-platform mailing list (or maybe android-kernel, I'm not sure, just be sure to not cross-post). |
| 14:30.11 | Digital_Pioneer | Well, alas. It seems impossible to find a good phone without spending >$400 on it. |
| 14:30.51 | llight | ok, thanks. |
| 14:31.06 | Leeds | Digital_Pioneer: why would you think it would be possible - barring huge network subsidies? advanced portable electronics cost money |
| 14:32.30 | Digital_Pioneer | Leeds: I wouldn't. I'm looking for the huge subsidies. :P |
| 14:33.14 | Leeds | I like to buy a phone, not get it on HP |
| 14:33.33 | Digital_Pioneer | Define HP... |
| 14:34.16 | Digital_Pioneer | And I'd like that too, but I'm poor college kid. I don't have much money. |
| 14:34.38 | Leeds | hire purchase |
| 14:35.28 | Digital_Pioneer | Ahh |
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| 14:37.58 | Digital_Pioneer | Leeds: Well, thanks for your help. I've gotta run. |
| 14:38.29 | Leeds | did I help? oh well, you're welcome |
| 14:38.59 | Digital_Pioneer | Well, you ruled out one more option. The G1 costs more than the Freerunner... |
| 14:39.24 | Leeds | and one is a real mass-market phone, one isn't |
| 14:40.01 | Digital_Pioneer | Am I to take that to mean you don't like the Freerunner? |
| 14:40.45 | Leeds | no |
| 14:40.54 | Leeds | it's an interesting prototype |
| 14:41.37 | Digital_Pioneer | It makes calls and does fun stuff. That's all I need. :) |
| 14:41.52 | Digital_Pioneer | (Fun stuff being whatever I can do in a completely open Linux-based OS) |
| 14:42.19 | *** part/#android topeira (n=lucio@unaffiliated/topeira) |
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| 14:43.43 | Digital_Pioneer | Bye. Thanks |
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| 14:49.36 | pandzilla | are there any hard dates for the G1 release in Ol' Yurop yet? |
| 14:50.07 | pandzilla | seems the only way of getting a device here is through some rather shady sources on ebay, for ridiculous prices |
| 14:50.12 | *** part/#android kIDDAI (n=aubrey@poirot.aot.TU-Berlin.DE) |
| 14:50.44 | languish | it's already on sale in the .uk |
| 14:50.57 | languish | assuming you meant Yurop to be Europe |
| 14:51.09 | pandzilla | sure I do, just being silly |
| 14:51.09 | languish | if Yurop is somewhere else, I haven't heard of it. |
| 14:51.29 | pandzilla | I was specifically thinking of Germany |
| 14:51.36 | pandzilla | since that's where I'm located |
| 14:51.55 | pandzilla | I'd just bug some of my US buddies, but it's slightly painful with the import taxes and all |
| 14:53.48 | vol | pandzilla: taxes are only levied if someone knows to levy them ;) |
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| 14:54.18 | pandzilla | vol: problem is that the german customs are pretty much on top of things for stuff shipped from the US to .de |
| 14:54.43 | pandzilla | and you're legally required to denote the value of the package when shipping |
| 14:56.08 | pandzilla | so, hrm |
| 14:56.29 | vol | $20, it's a toaster. |
| 14:58.07 | pandzilla | might work, but if it's opened, you're screwed |
| 14:58.20 | pandzilla | I think they x-ray the packages now |
| 14:58.35 | pandzilla | they had a documentary about that on ebay.de, actually |
| 14:58.45 | pandzilla | dunno how much of that is just FUD propaganda |
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| 15:02.12 | vol | lead-lined box. |
| 15:02.28 | vol | stick like 10 Nokia 3595s in there |
| 15:02.30 | vol | as decoys |
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| 15:04.12 | languish | or ship it in a toaster :| |
| 15:04.30 | languish | just pray they don't take it out and plug it in :( |
| 15:04.51 | languish | or you'd receive g1oast |
| 15:04.55 | Dougie187 | languish: you can always put a short in the toaster. |
| 15:05.09 | languish | Dougie187, they're german, they'd fix it. |
| 15:05.13 | vol | I suspect they'd discover the phone shaped obstruction in the phone |
| 15:05.18 | vol | and remove it as a defect |
| 15:05.22 | pandzilla | lol @ gloast |
| 15:05.23 | vol | and ship the toaster to you, fixed |
| 15:05.56 | pandzilla | vol: doing that while charging me for both - that'd be exactly like them |
| 15:06.13 | Dougie187 | lol |
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| 15:30.04 | tauno | what licence do the icons in Contacts app use? |
| 15:30.46 | tauno | apache? |
| 15:31.28 | *** join/#android jexe (n=jesseboy@static-64-115-213-78.isp.broadviewnet.net) |
| 15:32.06 | Damm | check out the contacts tree, and view it |
| 15:33.01 | Damm | apache 2.0 license |
| 15:38.05 | tauno | Damm, thansk |
| 15:38.45 | tauno | s/thansk/thanks |
| 15:39.06 | tauno | ok, that's some voodo magic there I guess.. :) |
| 15:45.44 | tric | hmm, anyone knows under which licence the http://code.google.com/android/documentation.html stuff is released? is using those images allowed? |
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| 16:09.02 | *** join/#android ttuttle (n=ttuttle@pdpc/supporter/student/gentoo.contributor.ttuttle) |
| 16:09.19 | ttuttle | anyone know a good screen protector for the g1? |
| 16:09.52 | *** join/#android spearce` (n=spearce@69.36.227.135) |
| 16:12.46 | languish | ttuttle, let romainguy_ talk you out of needing one. |
| 16:12.49 | languish | :) |
| 16:13.20 | languish | I'm sure you've heard/seen his "I've even tried to scratch it with my keys" line.. |
| 16:13.33 | languish | lol |
| 16:13.38 | unix_lappy | but we forgot to throw in a 3.5mm jack ;-P |
| 16:13.50 | languish | ur a jack, jack. |
| 16:13.52 | languish | :| |
| 16:13.57 | Leeds | hit the road, jack |
| 16:14.08 | cutmasta | lol |
| 16:14.15 | vol | argh. |
| 16:14.19 | ttuttle | languish: mine already has scratches :( |
| 16:14.23 | vol | I meant to type make clean-libld |
| 16:14.30 | languish | ttuttle how'd you manage it? |
| 16:14.30 | vol | instead I typed make clean libld |
| 16:14.33 | vol | you can guess what that did. |
| 16:14.51 | Leeds | oops :-) |
| 16:15.11 | ttuttle | languish: ...tossed it into a bowl with a fork in it (forgot the bowl was on my bed). also maybe keys. |
| 16:15.20 | languish | haha |
| 16:15.31 | languish | yeah, they didn't see you coming.. |
| 16:16.10 | languish | hope you weren't eating tunafish or something in that bowl |
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| 16:16.17 | ttuttle | languish: nope |
| 16:16.37 | ttuttle | languish: it was enpty by then, but there was pasta in it |
| 16:16.42 | languish | nod |
| 16:16.48 | languish | at least it wasn't a bowl of milk |
| 16:16.55 | ttuttle | heh |
| 16:17.17 | languish | i wonder if milk turns the moisture dot red |
| 16:17.31 | languish | or what liquid wouldn't |
| 16:17.32 | Disconnect | ttuttle: i love the invisishields fyi |
| 16:18.13 | ttuttle | Disconnect: okay |
| 16:18.18 | Disconnect | has it on his mbp, e90, the wif's old blackberry, coworker's new blackberry, and now the g1. |
| 16:18.32 | *** join/#android skbohra (n=best@117.199.114.41) |
| 16:18.52 | Disconnect | and i've got an associate's link if you want to be kind :) but either way, they are awesome. |
| 16:19.17 | ttuttle | sure, link away |
| 16:19.25 | ttuttle | email it to me |
| 16:19.34 | ttuttle | thinkinginbinary at gmail dot com |
| 16:19.40 | unix_lappy | Disconnect: are they available in B&M stores? |
| 16:19.42 | vol | wait, what is this moisturedot |
| 16:20.11 | Disconnect | unix_lappy: didn't see it for g1 but a lot of them are @ bestbuy these days |
| 16:21.25 | unix_lappy | meh, i might stop my and see what it's made of and get a sheet at lowes or whatever. |
| 16:21.46 | ttuttle | Disconnect: sent? |
| 16:21.46 | tauno | vol, it's a little dot on the battery that changes color if it comes in touch with moisture (water etc) |
| 16:21.50 | vol | ah |
| 16:21.55 | Disconnect | ttuttle: just sent |
| 16:21.56 | tauno | as far as I know.. |
| 16:21.59 | languish | vol, near the battery, little white dot. if it gets wet, it changes color.. tells warranty support you got the phone wet |
| 16:22.01 | vol | for warrenty purposes? |
| 16:22.02 | ttuttle | Disconnect: ok |
| 16:22.06 | vol | *warranty |
| 16:22.08 | Disconnect | unix_lappy: its made of the stuff they use on the leading edge of .mil helicopter blades. |
| 16:22.14 | ttuttle | got it |
| 16:22.16 | languish | vol, yep |
| 16:22.18 | tauno | vol, and then when you take your phone to the warranty, they say it's moisture damage.. |
| 16:22.31 | vol | so the solution is to get another battery first! :D |
| 16:22.39 | unix_lappy | what if you replace the battery? |
| 16:22.44 | tauno | vol, exactly :) |
| 16:22.46 | languish | `vol, it's not ON the battery |
| 16:23.18 | vol | hmm |
| 16:23.21 | tauno | languish, it isn't? what's the "white thingie with blue lines that turned red when I soaked my phone underwater" then ? :) |
| 16:24.27 | *** join/#android jexe (n=jesseboy@static-64-115-213-78.isp.broadviewnet.net) |
| 16:26.20 | languish | tauno, your hand? |
| 16:27.11 | languish | the moisture dot is usually in the same area where you seat the battery. |
| 16:27.24 | *** join/#android BBHoss_ (n=bbhoss@c-68-62-168-242.hsd1.al.comcast.net) |
| 16:27.51 | languish | or wherever engineering feels it is most likely to detect liquid from a leak in to the inner casing |
| 16:28.02 | *** join/#android jbq (n=jbq@nat/google/x-e457e2283f2444d5) |
| 16:28.13 | KNY | I think there are sensors on both the battery and the casing |
| 16:28.21 | KNY | I just pulled mine apart to check |
| 16:28.23 | languish | tis possible |
| 16:28.53 | languish | but the ones on the battery aren't called a "moisture dot" might be a moisture strip |
| 16:28.53 | KNY | there's a white dot on the casing, and a white square with red dots on the battery |
| 16:28.57 | romainguy__ | languish: I'm sure you've heard/seen his "I've even tried to scratch it with my keys" line.. << didn't you try yourself? |
| 16:29.29 | ttuttle | Disconnect: do i want the full-body shield or the screen only one? I'm not really worried about scratching the case... |
| 16:29.30 | languish | romainguy__, your confidence in my gullability is depressing. |
| 16:30.00 | ttuttle | romainguy__: so you say the G1 is unscratchable? |
| 16:30.03 | Disconnect | ttuttle: i got full-body but haven't put it all on yet. so.. ymmv. (then again, when i ordered it was preorder full-body only.) if you only worry about the screen, jsut get the screen. :) |
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| 16:30.16 | romainguy__ | ttuttle: I'm sure you can scratch it if you wanted to |
| 16:30.22 | romainguy__ | I haven't tried with a power drill yet |
| 16:30.39 | ttuttle | romainguy__: i didn't want to, but i have. :-\ |
| 16:30.53 | languish | with a fork'n bowl |
| 16:30.59 | languish | lulz |
| 16:31.04 | Disconnect | fwiw i got a small scratch on the screen in teh week or so before the intellishield arrived. and i'm fairly careful about my devices. |
| 16:31.12 | skbohra | where to get android source code? |
| 16:31.19 | romainguy__ | skbohra: source.android.com |
| 16:31.23 | skbohra | without git |
| 16:31.34 | ttuttle | skbohra: dude, read the !@#$ topic. it's the first link! |
| 16:31.36 | Disconnect | (and as a warning, the shield adds some texture to the screen. i thought that was desperately needed, personally, but if you like the super-slick oily-glass feel then you might not want one..) |
| 16:31.47 | KNY | skbohra, why would you want that? |
| 16:31.48 | ttuttle | skbohra: um, we use git. |
| 16:31.53 | danfuzz | you can browse it on git.source.android.com |
| 16:31.58 | ttuttle | skbohra: that's how it works. |
| 16:32.12 | *** join/#android malcolm__ (n=malcom@151.65.88.117) |
| 16:32.16 | KNY | When making a call, how do I bring the dialer back up so that I can respond to "blah blah blah, press 1" |
| 16:32.17 | KNY | ? |
| 16:32.17 | danfuzz | though itls pretty durn easy to get git etc |
| 16:32.29 | danfuzz | also, hi |
| 16:32.41 | romainguy__ | KNY: click/drag the tab at the bottom |
| 16:32.45 | skbohra | my bandwidth doesnt think so |
| 16:32.45 | languish | KNY, just flick up the tab on the bottom of the screen |
| 16:32.52 | skbohra | :) |
| 16:32.59 | tauno | romainguy__, mind If I bitch a little today also about.. stuff ? :/ |
| 16:33.04 | KNY | ohhhh okay. Thanks! |
| 16:33.16 | languish | tauno plans to outdo me |
| 16:33.30 | languish | which is fine, I'm in semi-retirement |
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| 16:35.01 | ttuttle | isaac: ooh, do they have invisibleshields for the canon rebel xti? i may buy one... |
| 16:35.35 | Disconnect | ttuttle: ..Disconnect maybe? :) but yah, buy one of each just in case you get something for christmas and need to protect it :P |
| 16:35.40 | ttuttle | er |
| 16:35.47 | ttuttle | yeah, i meant Disconnect |
| 16:35.49 | isaac | :P |
| 16:35.50 | ttuttle | Disconnect: :P |
| 16:36.00 | isaac | you highlighted me for nothing ... argh |
| 16:36.31 | Disconnect | what a waste of electrons |
| 16:36.43 | KNY | they died an honorable death |
| 16:37.06 | languish | electrons be free |
| 16:37.11 | *** part/#android rupeshgujare (n=Administ@59.160.172.220) |
| 16:37.40 | llight | hi, anyone knows if bionic libc supports API like shmget, semget and friends ? |
| 16:37.45 | ttuttle | isaac: I'm sorry :( |
| 16:37.47 | tauno | romainguy__ seems to have found his way to "/ingore tauno" :P everybody does at the end.. it's only a matter of time :) |
| 16:38.08 | *** join/#android dglazkov (n=dglazkov@nat/google/x-5707abf61d990dd2) |
| 16:38.29 | languish | does it now. Why waste time? |
| 16:38.33 | ttuttle | can we please have #android-complaints or something? |
| 16:39.08 | tauno | ttuttle, of course you can.. feel free to join ;) |
| 16:39.33 | tauno | there are like.. 2 members already.. get in quickly before space runs out |
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| 16:42.46 | ttuttle | dis |
| 16:42.53 | ttuttle | er |
| 16:43.07 | Disconnect | re |
| 16:43.07 | Disconnect | sid |
| 16:43.22 | ttuttle | Disconnect: zagg does not like my address :-( |
| 16:43.23 | llight | hey, any1 know what is /dev/pmem ? |
| 16:43.34 | ttuttle | llight: google? |
| 16:43.39 | llight | nothing.. :( |
| 16:44.14 | llight | the MemoryHeapPmem class use it.. but no idea what that either :( |
| 16:44.30 | Disconnect | ttuttle: ? |
| 16:45.07 | ttuttle | Disconnect: it says tthere's an error with it |
| 16:47.21 | Disconnect | suckage. can wait another while (hour?) for live chat to appear and see what they say.. |
| 16:47.44 | ttuttle | Disconnect: okay |
| 16:47.52 | *** join/#android lresende (n=luckbr19@32.97.110.52) |
| 16:49.26 | Disconnect | doesn't know what else to suggest, i just use the stuff and have an ad :) i don't work for them or anything |
| 16:49.49 | ttuttle | Disconnect: hmm, it's working now |
| 16:49.56 | Disconnect | well cool :) |
| 16:50.12 | ttuttle | Disconnect: so you get a decent cut? i imagine these are fairly profitable to sell. |
| 16:50.23 | Disconnect | 5% iirc. not spectacular but not terrible. |
| 16:51.51 | vol | Bleh. Finally finished building. Ok, when I hit "make libld" it tells me that there's no rule for that. Do pseudorules not work? |
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| 16:56.52 | tethridge | any rumors of when we'll see the next android phone? |
| 16:57.02 | ttuttle | teth |
| 16:57.10 | ttuttle | argh |
| 16:57.18 | tethridge | :-) |
| 16:57.20 | ttuttle | tethridge: probably this decade |
| 16:57.27 | tethridge | that rumor sucks |
| 16:57.28 | ttuttle | enter is too close to backspace. |
| 16:57.32 | *** join/#android Chainfire (n=Chainfir@unaffiliated/chainfire) |
| 16:57.45 | tethridge | I don't believe it. :-) |
| 16:58.25 | *** join/#android skbohra (n=best@117.199.113.6) |
| 16:58.33 | tethridge | seriously though, I'm getting anxious. My contract with Sprint is up in Feb and I know it takes a while to get the phones out. |
| 16:58.55 | tethridge | If I don't start hearing rumors soon, then I don't think there will be any new phones out by then |
| 16:59.00 | unix_lappy | tethridge: somewhere between 3Q and 4Q 09 |
| 16:59.13 | tethridge | I don't know if I can wait that long. :-) |
| 16:59.27 | unix_lappy | but just because we'll see another device doesnt mean it wont be just a motoQ with android on it. |
| 16:59.37 | tauno | huh.. then I have time with the app here.. no rishing if new phones arrive in a year or so :) |
| 16:59.45 | tauno | rushing* |
| 17:00.09 | tethridge | I want a hardware version without the physical keyboard |
| 17:00.11 | unix_lappy | even though they've said it's likely to be on a KRZR type phone. |
| 17:02.20 | *** join/#android caseydavis (n=pirch@cdavis.ucok.edu) |
| 17:02.38 | streeter | t-mobile is supposed to start 3G service here on Thursday. I can't wait. |
| 17:02.41 | ttuttle | Disconnect: ordered |
| 17:02.45 | *** join/#android luckbr1975 (n=luckbr19@nat/ibm/x-e64de2d04b8327ff) |
| 17:02.54 | caseydavis | I'm ready to put some android on my htc fuze! |
| 17:03.03 | Disconnect | :) |
| 17:03.24 | tethridge | streeter, where is "here"? |
| 17:03.40 | streeter | tethridge: Huntsville, AL |
| 17:04.15 | tethridge | damn, something is wrong with tmo |
| 17:04.45 | streeter | the only thing holding them up, apparently, is clearing the spectrum. |
| 17:04.50 | tethridge | I'm in Raleigh, NC. The research triangle. Lots of tech companies here. But does tmo have 3g? No |
| 17:05.09 | Disconnect | ttuttle: cool it credited (well, pending, but it showed up) |
| 17:05.35 | ttuttle | Disconnect: yay. how much do they give you? |
| 17:06.08 | Disconnect | looks like that will be $2.99 |
| 17:06.18 | ttuttle | Disconnect: decent. |
| 17:06.26 | languish | almost enough to afford an android app |
| 17:06.27 | languish | :| |
| 17:06.28 | Disconnect | yah not bad :) thanks |
| 17:06.43 | Disconnect | yah i was just gonna say, if i do end up doing shareware for my app remind me to gen you up a free key :) |
| 17:06.56 | languish | heh |
| 17:07.01 | ttuttle | Disconnect: heh |
| 17:07.09 | ttuttle | Disconnect: what app? |
| 17:07.12 | Disconnect | tethridge: silver spring counts as "dc" for 3g but only downtown, near discovery building and such |
| 17:07.47 | *** join/#android BBHoss (n=bbhoss@c-68-62-168-242.hsd1.al.comcast.net) |
| 17:07.52 | Disconnect | ttuttle: finishing a decent mileage/maintenance tracker. (finishing first ver anyway) .. prolly gonna be free-with-limits (eg no export, no pretty graphs of more than the first couple fills, that sort of thing) |
| 17:08.32 | ttuttle | disah. |
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| 17:08.49 | tauno | (Sometimes it's good to live in a small country.. it's easy to cover with 3g :) It's like in every city (in your dimensions our city == your village) :) |
| 17:08.52 | ttuttle | Disconnect: ah |
| 17:09.19 | KNY | Disconnect, you mean like "Mileage"? |
| 17:10.06 | Disconnect | KNY: yah only good |
| 17:10.17 | KNY | haha |
| 17:10.22 | KNY | <-- author of Mileage |
| 17:10.42 | Disconnect | got sidetracked into device hacking and was rather upset to see mileage appear but the apps are rather different in appearance/function so.. |
| 17:10.51 | KNY | yeah |
| 17:10.58 | Disconnect | sorry :) but i did try it and then i was not wild about the interface.. |
| 17:10.58 | KNY | what are you using for charting? |
| 17:11.10 | kslater | KNY: Mileage seems to switch back and forth btw landscape and portrait modes, what's that all about? |
| 17:11.22 | caseydavis | have you all tried mymilemarker.com |
| 17:11.29 | KNY | kslater, it's by device orientation (though that's changed in version+1) |
| 17:11.43 | kslater | never thought of that |
| 17:11.52 | kslater | duh |
| 17:11.53 | KNY | kslater, it's now optional by device orientation or by keyboard tray open/closed |
| 17:12.15 | RyeBrye | Does multitouch fall under the umbrella of the input-method framework? |
| 17:13.00 | *** join/#android falstaff_ (n=sag@123-237.3-85.cust.bluewin.ch) |
| 17:13.01 | jbq | RyeBrye: no. IMF is about text input. |
| 17:13.02 | falstaff_ | Hello |
| 17:13.31 | wastrel | i forgot my voicemail password |
| 17:13.32 | jbq | What you're talking about would be in the low-level view/event system. |
| 17:13.41 | KNY | Disconnect, be sure to ping me when you publish your app, would you? I'd be interested in checking it out |
| 17:13.47 | Disconnect | sure |
| 17:14.19 | RyeBrye | jbq - so in the low-level view / vent system is where multi-touch would have to be put - but then it could be used by something in the IMF for text input, right? (i.e. an onscreen keyboard that had a shift key that worked... etc) |
| 17:14.34 | falstaff_ | i've got a design problem: I've got an activity, which shows a list with data which are fetched over network. Now, this takes some time, therefor i want use a ProgressDialog. But this does not work when i implement this in onCreate (activity is not yet painted, therefor the ProgressDialog is not visible...). How can i do that? |
| 17:14.35 | jbq | RyeBrye: that's my understanding. |
| 17:14.47 | Disconnect | KNY: first i have to stop being distracted by the hw hacking aspect :) |
| 17:15.01 | KNY | Disconnect, haha. How far along are you (with your app)? |
| 17:15.03 | RyeBrye | So - is there anything on the roadmap for when multi-touch support might get put into the low-level view / event system? :) |
| 17:15.16 | ttuttle | hey, what's the best version of Email right now? |
| 17:15.53 | Disconnect | KNY: basic functionality, but i dropped a bunch of features for 0.1. display is a mess due to db changes but the input screens are all set now and the basic stats calcs are done. |
| 17:16.14 | jbq | RyeBrye: I don't think that this is part of the Android UI guidelines, so it's not really needed by the underlying framework as far as I can tell. That's not my domain of expertise, though. |
| 17:16.15 | Disconnect | ttuttle: i use k-9 but even gmail ahs been having notification errors for me ("push" showed up 9 hours later :( ..) so.. |
| 17:16.41 | KNY | Disconnect, ahh. |
| 17:16.56 | Disconnect | master display is a mess i mean. all the sub-windows are set now. |
| 17:18.07 | tauno | jbq, speaking of this - are there any app design guidelines for Android? (I mean UI) |
| 17:18.42 | jbq | tauno: I've seen drafts inside Google, I don't know whether those were finalized or published. |
| 17:19.44 | unix_lappy | RyeBrye: you make any progress with the synaptics drivers? |
| 17:19.57 | tauno | jbq, I haven't found them if they are public.. if they are not, then it would be really great if they were finalized and made public.. otherwise it'll be a mess :( |
| 17:20.07 | jbq | tauno: yeah |
| 17:20.35 | KNY | tauno, I've just been making my apps consistent with the stock ones |
| 17:20.49 | KNY | not clones, but along the same UI themes and strategies |
| 17:20.54 | Neverender1 | unix_lappy: http://www.ryebrye.com/blog/2008/11/17/proving-the-g1-screen-can-handle-multi-touch/ |
| 17:21.28 | morrildl | wow, I left IRC running all week? |
| 17:21.31 | morrildl | oops |
| 17:21.40 | jbq | morrildl: good luck catching up :) |
| 17:21.52 | unix_lappy | RyeBrye: thanks for the shout out ;-P |
| 17:22.02 | jasta | my irssi process was started nov 4th |
| 17:22.03 | KNY | Neverender1, whoa. Very cool. |
| 17:22.09 | unix_lappy | morrildl: that's what lastlog is for :P-P |
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| 17:23.38 | falstaff_ | Guys, I need help... When i implement the loading in onresume or oncreate, ProgressDialog is not visible... Sample code from google does not do what i want, i want create a progressdialog when i start my activity.... |
| 17:24.05 | jasta | falstaff_: are you blocking the main thread preventing it from showing up? |
| 17:24.26 | falstaff_ | jasta: no, loading is in a own thread... |
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| 17:25.01 | jasta | can you show me the code you used to create the progress dialog? |
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| 17:25.48 | falstaff_ | When i call by startActivityForResult the activity which load this data and show the progressdialog, the old activity is showed the whole loading time. When he finishs loading, the activity is showed, but then, the loading dialog is not shown anymore.. |
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| 17:26.48 | KNY | falstaff_, pastebin.ca :) |
| 17:26.51 | jasta | that sounds like you most certainly are blocking the main thread |
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| 17:30.27 | KNY | anyone used TabHost? I'm trying (unsuccesfully) to reduce the height of the tabs |
| 17:30.51 | jasta | the TabWidget has become quite ridgid in the 1.0 release |
| 17:30.53 | falstaff_ | im going to paste the code in a minute, ive now a null pointer exception somehow :-) |
| 17:31.01 | jasta | you might have to construct your own, but im not sure |
| 17:31.16 | KNY | jasta, :( |
| 17:31.26 | jasta | just look at the code for TabWidget and you be the judge |
| 17:31.49 | KNY | I can change the height of TabWidget, but it always allocates room for an icon, pushing the text off screen |
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| 17:32.46 | jasta | KNY: as i said, its quite rigid. look at the code and decide if you need to extend or replace it. |
| 17:32.47 | falstaff_ | Here it is: http://www.pastebin.ca/1259434 |
| 17:33.05 | KNY | jasta, tanks |
| 17:33.06 | KNY | thanks* |
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| 17:33.20 | jasta | falstaff_: lol, duh |
| 17:33.25 | jasta | do you know what th.join does? |
| 17:33.42 | falstaff_ | yes, he waits till the thread finished |
| 17:33.43 | falstaff_ | hmmmmm |
| 17:33.46 | falstaff_ | damn :-) |
| 17:33.50 | jasta | yes, which blocks the UI thread silly |
| 17:33.56 | jasta | you can't do that |
| 17:34.47 | KNY | heh, found a bug in the javadocs |
| 17:34.49 | falstaff_ | i see... |
| 17:34.53 | KNY | someone forgot to close a <pre> |
| 17:34.56 | jasta | falstaff_: pull down the source code to apps-for-android, and look at the Photostrema app |
| 17:35.09 | jasta | in particular, look at UserTask.java, this wil help you i believe. |
| 17:35.41 | jasta | or, if you'd prefer, just use Handler and post your changes to a custom ListAdapter |
| 17:36.56 | jasta | there are a _LOT_ of examples of this type of behaviour in the android source tree as well |
| 17:37.08 | falstaff_ | Okey, the progress dialog is now visible, i do no join anymore and moved the list creation into the thread... but this gives CalledFromWrongThreadException: Only the original thread that created a view hierarchy can touch its views. |
| 17:37.19 | falstaff_ | And for this i've to use the handler right? |
| 17:37.28 | jasta | falstaff_: you can't make UI calls from any thread other than the main one |
| 17:37.46 | falstaff_ | yeah, i know :-) Just tried it (once again :-D) |
| 17:37.54 | jasta | you have to communicate between the main thread and the other threads. Handlers are helpful for this. |
| 17:38.05 | tauno | one option is to run it using runOnUiThread(action) |
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| 17:38.57 | jasta | which is just calling Handler#post |
| 17:39.32 | jasta | falstaff_: looking at your code, it seems very inefficient as well |
| 17:40.23 | falstaff_ | jasta: this addAll thing? i know, this is not my code, i've allready changed this at another place... |
| 17:40.55 | jasta | you need to be careful allocating all of your data at once like that |
| 17:40.57 | jasta | and iterating over it |
| 17:41.25 | falstaff_ | ProgressBar works now like a charm, thanks for this! |
| 17:41.47 | jasta | for large lists, ListView works best with a cursor or other type of windowed/paged backing data structure. |
| 17:41.53 | jasta | and not just a giant ArrayList. |
| 17:42.00 | falstaff_ | Hm |
| 17:42.08 | jasta | again, there are LOTS of examples of this |
| 17:42.15 | jasta | for instance, the built-in Music players source is available |
| 17:42.25 | falstaff_ | i get the data over network, as mentioned, and corsurs are for database, or am i wrong? |
| 17:42.42 | ttuttle | Android's API doesn't support multi-touch, does it? |
| 17:42.45 | jasta | that would be an example of another type of paged backing data structure |
| 17:42.58 | falstaff_ | jasta: yes, i looked at this once, but not for this... |
| 17:43.05 | jasta | falstaff_: look at the Photostream app, in particular UserTask |
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| 17:43.35 | KNY | jasta, this crap isn't easy to extend--everything is private |
| 17:43.36 | KNY | roar |
| 17:44.12 | jasta | KNY: well, i would probably just replace it completely if that is getting in your way. |
| 17:44.36 | KNY | roll my own TabHost? |
| 17:45.00 | tauno | just unprivate it.. simple :P |
| 17:45.18 | KNY | haha |
| 17:45.46 | jasta | KNY: perhaps. i havent looked at the 1.0 code. |
| 17:45.51 | unix_lappy | ttuttle: http://www.ryebrye.com/blog/2008/11/17/proving-the-g1-screen-can-handle-multi-touch/ |
| 17:46.11 | KNY | all I need to do is replace one layout XML file--they hard code tabs to be 64dip tall |
| 17:46.20 | KNY | even if there isn't an image |
| 17:46.58 | Disconnect | unix_lappy: thats not api support, thats hw support |
| 17:47.03 | unix_lappy | ttuttle: i'm surprised there isnt a framework out there that utilized this early on. too bad it requires root to get working ;-( |
| 17:47.26 | unix_lappy | ^^ |
| 17:47.47 | RyeBrye | The biggest use case I can see being actually useful would be 2 finger scrolling and 1-finger selecting for web browsing once text selection comes into play |
| 17:48.09 | RyeBrye | (that might suck, come to think of it) |
| 17:48.28 | RyeBrye | ok... maybe just 2-player air hockey... |
| 17:48.56 | KNY | RyeBrye, it doesn't matter what use cases you can come up with for Android apps--what matters is what other devs can come up with |
| 17:48.59 | Damm | i don't really see a major use/change in 2-finger scrolling on the G1... as 1 Finger does the same thing, unless you want the 2nd finger to mass highlight or an 'alt' button? |
| 17:49.09 | KNY | why would the framework limit us to single touch? |
| 17:49.43 | KNY | look at the iphone for example--third party developers seem to be coming up with their own use cases just fine |
| 17:50.13 | jbq | Portability of such apps to single-touch devices is a concern. |
| 17:50.22 | RyeBrye | The platform already supports touch screen or no touch screen, I'm not sure what the big deal of adding multi-touch screen / touch screen / non-touch screen in there matters |
| 17:51.08 | RyeBrye | Yeah, I can see how portability matters but I don't see the phone using only greyscale to ensure portability to devices that aren't capable of using color... |
| 17:51.11 | unix_lappy | RyeBrye: well, your thinking from a hackers perspective not from a usability / sellability perspective. |
| 17:51.50 | unix_lappy | if you can transition users are are used to certain gestures and usability profiles using multitouch... |
| 17:52.33 | Disconnect | RyeBrye: the zoom/pan in the browser is terrible - half the time you end up clicking something trying to get the +- to appear (thats especially bad in street view) |
| 17:52.39 | RyeBrye | Ok, I do think there is a case to be made for some kind of multi-touch for zooming at least in the browser - since those stupid zoom and page-zoom buttons have overlapped something I've wanted to interact with on the page a few times so far... and I would like to have a way to get rid of them |
| 17:52.51 | RyeBrye | Disconnect beat me to that point :) |
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| 17:53.26 | andyross | The browser won't click if you move, even a tiny bit. I found that once I internalized the rule, I don't hit links accidentally any more. |
| 17:53.44 | andyross | If anything I see the opposite: I sometimes have to resort to the trackball to target tiny links. |
| 17:53.52 | morrildl | The G1 panel does not support multi-touch |
| 17:54.07 | RyeBrye | morrildl - you are wrong |
| 17:54.11 | morrildl | There is a distinct difference between multi-touch and being able to identify two fingers |
| 17:54.14 | morrildl | RyeBrye: no, I am not :) |
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| 17:54.28 | morrildl | Multi-touch means being able to identify taps independently |
| 17:54.29 | RyeBrye | morrildl - what is the distinct difference? |
| 17:54.43 | morrildl | Synaptics has had touchpads that can distinguish between two-finger touch and one-finger touch for years |
| 17:54.50 | morrildl | true multi-touch is more recent |
| 17:55.06 | morrildl | If you have one finger on the pad and tap with another finger, the G1 cannot detect the second tap |
| 17:55.06 | RyeBrye | morrildl - It tracks 1 finger, then when you throw on the second finger it starts tracking it - when you release the second finger it stops tracking it - I don't see your point |
| 17:55.11 | RyeBrye | morrildl - you are wrong |
| 17:55.24 | RyeBrye | http://www.ryebrye.com/blog/2008/11/17/proving-the-g1-screen-can-handle-multi-touch/ |
| 17:55.33 | morrildl | Besides that, note also that the G1 was specced to only have a single-touch panel |
| 17:55.40 | languish | morrildl "the G1' in hardware, or the OS? what is the limitation? |
| 17:55.57 | morrildl | Even if HTC got a deal on a multi-touch panel and substituted it in, the specification is still single-touch |
| 17:56.10 | languish | it's just not in android? or is the hardware not capable of it? |
| 17:56.16 | andyross | I think the proper question is whether or not the hardware supports the gestures you want to implement, not a semantic discussion about the distinction between "multitouch" and "true multitouch". I still haven't seen a good discussion about what the technical details are. |
| 17:56.30 | morrildl | meaning some G1s might hypothetically have hardware that can do multi-touch (though I have no information on whether that might be true), but not all will, so it can't be relied on |
| 17:56.35 | DJTachyon | languish: it appears the driver code enabling it was commented out |
| 17:56.58 | morrildl | The G1 was never specified to be a multi-touch device. Since it was th first Android device, we therefore didn't bother to build a multi-touch framework into the API |
| 17:56.59 | DJTachyon | perhaps all the UI stuff wasnt coded to handle it |
| 17:57.07 | languish | DJTachyon I know, i read the site :) you came in the middle of a discussion :) |
| 17:57.14 | DJTachyon | oh :P |
| 17:57.27 | DJTachyon | looks like a good discussion ;) |
| 17:57.33 | RyeBrye | morrildl - that's ludicrous of HTC to make that specification... I didn't ever see the specs on what HTC was planning to do with it |
| 17:57.34 | falstaff_ | Sorry, had a phone call |
| 17:57.46 | falstaff_ | Where is this Photostream app located? android.com? |
| 17:58.19 | KNY | apps-for-android |
| 17:58.25 | KNY | google it--it's a google code project |
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| 17:59.07 | RyeBrye | morrildl - I'm sure I can hold one finger down on the screen, and then tap in random locations and have it detect those second taps |
| 17:59.10 | morrildl | RyeBrye: well I can't comment on why HTC did or didn't specify what they did; ask them or maybe T-Mobile, it's their device |
| 17:59.21 | falstaff_ | ah yeah |
| 17:59.29 | RyeBrye | morrildl - I'm posting one now where I hold one finger down in the middle and then tap with a second finger in 4 different locations all while the 1st finger is held down... |
| 17:59.34 | RyeBrye | http://pastebin.com/f56bf1d2a |
| 18:00.12 | morrildl | RyeBrye: the key distinction is how the panel identifies the "touch radius" |
| 18:00.28 | morrildl | i.e when you touch the screen your finger shmushes into a vaguely circular region |
| 18:00.32 | RyeBrye | morrildl - each finger has a "width" parameter to it |
| 18:00.40 | morrildl | RyeBrye: right |
| 18:01.05 | languish | RyeBrye, the real issue is what he stated about htc's sourcing of parts. |
| 18:01.15 | languish | *your* G1 might have a multi-touch capable panel. |
| 18:01.16 | morrildl | panels on the G1 generally compute the "width" as encompassing *both* fingers |
| 18:01.19 | languish | other peoples may not |
| 18:01.28 | morrildl | i.e. it's a giant circle with both touch points in it |
| 18:01.37 | morrildl | now, as I said, that's how it was specified |
| 18:01.37 | languish | and it's one of the more disgusting little facts I've seen about this whole hooha |
| 18:01.48 | morrildl | languish: ? |
| 18:01.50 | DJTachyon | different panels? |
| 18:01.58 | morrildl | It just got specified as single-touch |
| 18:02.08 | RyeBrye | Yeah, that does make sense about HTC spec'ing out a single-touch panel |
| 18:02.20 | KNY | morrildl, good point. I noticed that the "w" on every touch was exactly the same for finger one and finger two |
| 18:02.21 | RyeBrye | so in the future if they find a cheaper capactive touch screen element they could use that |
| 18:02.21 | Disconnect | suspects that since symantic is super-proud of -every- panel having multi-touch capability, the chances of finding one without it are pretty slim. |
| 18:02.24 | morrildl | We told them the OS was generally designed to work on single-touch devices, so they chose single-touch |
| 18:02.52 | languish | Disconnect or they get a non synaptic panel? |
| 18:03.01 | Disconnect | synaptic sorry :) |
| 18:03.21 | morrildl | (by which I mean: "since we aim to work on high end and low end devices, the UI is planned to work with both single- and multi-touch.") |
| 18:03.23 | languish | it makes sense. it just sucks |
| 18:03.24 | DJTachyon | imagine a Symantec panel .. ewww.. |
| 18:03.34 | Disconnect | heh |
| 18:03.53 | languish | we'd have to uninstall the hardware :( |
| 18:03.59 | DJTachyon | ol |
| 18:04.12 | morrildl | KNY: exactly, that would be teh symptom |
| 18:04.27 | RyeBrye | http://pastebin.com/m3d671b69 |
| 18:04.36 | RyeBrye | There is one where I actually vary my pressure on both fingers independently of each other |
| 18:04.41 | RyeBrye | on the last one, I was just pressing lightly |
| 18:05.12 | RyeBrye | Ah, but you are right - it appears the w is the same in both columns |
| 18:05.16 | KNY | RyeBrye, try having it print out only if the two "w" params don't match |
| 18:05.30 | falstaff_ | Is this ugly? Creating an inner anonymous class in an inner anonymous class? :-) |
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| 18:05.48 | RyeBrye | KNY - I'd have to recompile my kernel and replace my boot.img to change how it does it - but that's an interesting thing to look into |
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| 18:06.00 | RyeBrye | I didn't look at what the commented-out driver code was doing too much |
| 18:06.22 | KNY | hell, just pipe your output through a perl script to eliminate the dupes |
| 18:06.26 | Disconnect | totally unrelated.. but wow.. banshee (desktop music app that supports g1) first release for osx is a -disaster- .. not "its a little buggy" but more like "its on fire, just try to use the bits that aren't melted". |
| 18:06.37 | KNY | though I'm guessing you might as well just `cat '' > out.txt` |
| 18:06.48 | Disconnect | RyeBrye: you can just throw the new module onto /system and use it from there.. |
| 18:07.32 | ttuttle | fixes the Software section of the T-Mobile G1 article on Wikipedia, which has built up all sorts of crud as people hear rumors and then append them to the page. |
| 18:07.35 | RyeBrye | morrildl - you mind if I make reference to your mentioning the HTC spec'ing out only a single-touch panel in that blog entry? I don't have to source you by name if you dont' care |
| 18:07.41 | phillijw | Disconnect: does osx properly support mono? |
| 18:07.49 | Disconnect | phillijw: supposedly |
| 18:08.22 | morrildl | RyeBrye: I long ago learned never to say anything that I'm not comfortable being quoted on ;) |
| 18:08.44 | morrildl | RyeBrye: but I do appreciate your asking :) |
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| 18:08.48 | morrildl | (feel free) |
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| 18:09.29 | KNY | stupid question, but why would I not be able to create a new TabWidget.OnTabSelectionChanged()? |
| 18:10.03 | phillijw | broken keyboard |
| 18:12.33 | morrildl | falstaff_: is it ugly? yes. Is it evil? depends on what you are doing, I guess... |
| 18:12.58 | morrildl | ttuttle: I seriously wish people would fix that page |
| 18:13.05 | ttuttle | morrildl: done |
| 18:13.08 | ttuttle | morrildl: Or at least, partly done. |
| 18:13.13 | morrildl | ttuttle: by which I mean, go to town on it |
| 18:13.16 | ttuttle | morrildl: I've been correcting errors for a while anonymously ;-) |
| 18:13.23 | morrildl | it's kind of gross in its organization, etc. |
| 18:13.27 | ttuttle | morrildl: I'm most of the 128.237.*.* edits (that's Carnegie Mellon's wifi allocation). |
| 18:13.36 | ttuttle | morrildl: Also, people equate Android == G1 and put general Android stuff there. |
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| 18:13.43 | ttuttle | morrildl: Take a look, lemme know if it's better. |
| 18:13.49 | morrildl | oh wait |
| 18:13.55 | morrildl | Is there a separate page for the G1? |
| 18:13.59 | ttuttle | Yeah. |
| 18:14.00 | morrildl | nice |
| 18:14.00 | DJTachyon | tuttle: that is going to happen until another android phone comes out |
| 18:14.03 | morrildl | I didn't even know that |
| 18:14.07 | ttuttle | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/T-Mobile_G1 |
| 18:14.13 | ttuttle | DJTachyon: ...and I'll keep fixing it. |
| 18:14.20 | DJTachyon | yeah i went nuts on it |
| 18:14.39 | DJTachyon | i have so many rants about it in the past 6 months on various news sites and blogs |
| 18:14.45 | ttuttle | heh |
| 18:14.52 | DJTachyon | its tiring ;) |
| 18:15.19 | morrildl | oh, sweet |
| 18:15.24 | ttuttle | Better? |
| 18:15.27 | DJTachyon | the general public doesnt care about learning any of these things I have found .. you have to put a shiney thing in front of them |
| 18:15.30 | ttuttle | is actually a decent writer. |
| 18:15.30 | morrildl | at least someone removed the spurious list of patents |
| 18:15.31 | phillijw | goComplainOnTheInternet.com |
| 18:15.38 | ttuttle | morrildl: Oh, when was that there? :-\ |
| 18:15.44 | morrildl | ttuttle: for years :) |
| 18:15.48 | ttuttle | :( |
| 18:15.54 | morrildl | I was aching to go to town on the Android entry |
| 18:16.06 | RyeBrye | It would be impossible for HTC to revise their spec and say "Multitouch" even if all of their currently-shipped phones had synaptics multi-touch capable screens? |
| 18:16.10 | ttuttle | applies "while (!working()) { reboot(); } ". |
| 18:16.11 | languish | ttuttle, The G1 offers two different sources of location information for applications such as Google Maps: a GPS receiver built-in to the chipset, and radio-tower location based on a database of mobile phone tower locations. In addition, the G1 includes a digital compass to provide absolute orientation data. |
| 18:16.12 | morrildl | but I did not since it would essentially be "first party research" :) |
| 18:16.24 | ttuttle | languish: Yes? |
| 18:16.31 | DJTachyon | what he said ^ |
| 18:16.31 | DJTachyon | :P |
| 18:16.35 | languish | ttuttle, might want to mention the toower assisted gps location is referred to as "agps" |
| 18:16.45 | ttuttle | languish: Nonono, it doesn't do tower-assisted GPS. |
| 18:16.46 | languish | err aGPS |
| 18:16.49 | morrildl | RyeBrye: that would generally be correct. Changing the hardware spec in that way would probably be most easily accomplished by calling it by a different model name |
| 18:16.53 | languish | it doesn't? |
| 18:16.56 | DJTachyon | oh? |
| 18:17.01 | ttuttle | languish: It does "get the satellite positions from Qualcomm's server instead of waiting 12.5 minutes for the satellites to send them". |
| 18:17.06 | ttuttle | languish: That's the "assisted" bit, I think. |
| 18:17.06 | morrildl | languish: actually that's not accurate |
| 18:17.16 | morrildl | ttuttle: G1 does NOT do that |
| 18:17.18 | vol | orly? |
| 18:17.20 | ttuttle | morrildl: No? Oh. |
| 18:17.21 | *** join/#android schmylan (n=schmylan@38.114.107.1) |
| 18:17.24 | morrildl | there's no technical reason it could not, it just doesn't |
| 18:17.24 | languish | morrildl, tell that to HTC! |
| 18:17.29 | ttuttle | morrildl: So what does it do? |
| 18:17.39 | morrildl | ttuttle: normal GPS resolution |
| 18:17.39 | DJTachyon | i thought it triangulated towers |
| 18:17.48 | languish | oh, and tell that to t-mobile too |
| 18:17.49 | morrildl | DJTachyon: it does, but that is entirely separate |
| 18:17.59 | DJTachyon | well right .. when GPS is turned off |
| 18:18.04 | morrildl | well the problem is that there is no actual standard for "assisted GPS" |
| 18:18.36 | morrildl | anyway last time I checked, it wasn't doing the "download ephemeris data from Internet instead of satellites" bit |
| 18:18.41 | ttuttle | morrildl: you sure? |
| 18:18.42 | morrildl | and that is what is normally meant by "aGPS" |
| 18:18.58 | morrildl | ttuttle: the last time I checked was a couple months ago |
| 18:19.01 | DJTachyon | so there is gps, agps, closest tower, and triangulation? |
| 18:19.04 | languish | ahh, it looks like HTC updated their spec page. they removed the a from aGPS, and no longer state 32GB microSD |
| 18:19.05 | morrildl | let me ask |
| 18:19.14 | ttuttle | DJTachyon: No triangulation. |
| 18:19.26 | ttuttle | DJTachyon: Just "what's a good guess of my position based on the towers I can see?". |
| 18:19.30 | DJTachyon | not even law enforcement enabled? |
| 18:19.37 | ttuttle | DJTachyon: Er, that's on the tower side. |
| 18:19.39 | ttuttle | DJTachyon: The phone doesn't do that. |
| 18:19.43 | DJTachyon | ah |
| 18:19.45 | morrildl | Note that the cell-ID stuff cannot be used to implement aGPS anyway |
| 18:20.11 | ttuttle | ooh... is GPS accessible to e911? |
| 18:20.22 | DJTachyon | thats also a good question |
| 18:20.27 | morrildl | what aGPS does is fetch ephemeris data out of band; the ephemeris data is information on the location of hte GPS spacecraft, and so knowing your approximate location is not really equivalent |
| 18:20.42 | DJTachyon | oh interesting |
| 18:21.08 | languish | yeah, agps is supposed to help populate the satellite locations for the handset faster |
| 18:21.20 | languish | that's how I understood it |
| 18:21.25 | morrildl | (the 70s-era GPS satellites broadcast reaaaaaaaaaaaaaally slowly. So it's much faster to fetch ephemeris via another data channel) |
| 18:21.30 | *** join/#android Dougie187 (n=doug@144.174.57.1) |
| 18:21.33 | languish | tower knows where you are, you get sat postioning faster |
| 18:21.38 | ttuttle | morrildl: 12.5 minutes, IIRC? |
| 18:21.53 | DJTachyon | so without gps enabled, maps uses closest tower, and with gps on, agps it just speeds up gps location? |
| 18:22.09 | DJTachyon | hmm that was almost a sentance |
| 18:22.10 | morrildl | ttuttle: possibly, I can't recall |
| 18:22.40 | vol | I was wondeering out how agps worked on the device |
| 18:22.42 | ttuttle | DJTachyon: not closest tower. all visible towers. |
| 18:22.43 | ttuttle | DJTachyon: it knows what area you are likely to be in if you can see a certain set of towers |
| 18:22.43 | ttuttle | (i think) |
| 18:22.51 | vol | it seems like it gets the location pretty quickly sometimes, but other times takes FOREVER. |
| 18:23.11 | *** part/#android Terdhex (n=fes004@host-208-68-238-61.biznesshosting.net) |
| 18:23.13 | phillijw | cant wait for his g1 coming to miwalukee soon |
| 18:23.20 | morrildl | vol: you need 4 spacecraft to get a fix |
| 18:23.21 | languish | i think some towers are more enabled than others |
| 18:23.29 | languish | morrildl 4? |
| 18:23.31 | languish | not 2? |
| 18:23.37 | phillijw | morrildl: alien space craft? |
| 18:23.38 | KNY | ttuttle, wasn't pittsburgh supposed to have 3G? |
| 18:23.41 | RyeBrye | morrildl - I updated http://www.ryebrye.com/blog/2008/11/17/proving-the-g1-screen-can-handle-multi-touch/ to include your clarifying point about the single-touch spec on the G1 |
| 18:23.43 | vol | morrildl: I have to admit that I never thought I would see that sentance used in a serious conversation |
| 18:23.51 | DJTachyon | no .. only one alien space craft, 4 gps sats ... |
| 18:23.57 | languish | i understood you needed 2, and 3 for "geight" |
| 18:24.01 | languish | *height" |
| 18:24.04 | languish | err elevation |
| 18:24.11 | morrildl | vol: So you have to 1) wait to get a signal lock on 4 different satellites, 2) wait for them each to broadcast their ephemeris data, 3) do the GPS calculation |
| 18:24.39 | morrildl | if it's cloudy or if you don't have line-of-sight to 4 satellites (e.g. in the mountains or in Manhattan) then 1) can take a long time just by itself. |
| 18:24.47 | *** join/#android Yeggstry (n=mind@cpc1-rdng14-0-0-cust946.winn.cable.ntl.com) |
| 18:25.05 | morrildl | Then if by dumb luck you tune in just after the start of the ephemeris sequence, you have to wait a whole cycle for it to start over again |
| 18:25.06 | DJTachyon | well i got my replacement G1 last Thurs w/ RC28 preloaded and got the RC30 update yesterday |
| 18:25.24 | vol | that's another thing. I wish I had some more interesting information on what signal strengths I was getting for satellites |
| 18:25.34 | vol | instead of "now you don't have gps, presto now you do" |
| 18:25.43 | vol | so that I could figure out where to place my phone for good signal |
| 18:25.44 | DJTachyon | im glad im close enough to a highway with streetview data in jersey to show off the compass mode |
| 18:25.49 | DJTachyon | its so fun :) |
| 18:25.50 | jasta | i wish i could just disable that stupid updat enotification :) |
| 18:26.02 | morrildl | languish: yes, you need 4. You could do it with 3 (you need 3 data inputs since you are solving for 3 dimensions) but only if your GPS receiver is in perfect time sync with the satellites, which never happens. So instead you need 4 satellites to solve for time as well |
| 18:26.16 | DJTachyon | jasta: not updating? |
| 18:26.29 | languish | hrm |
| 18:26.30 | jasta | i currently am just saying update later every time :) |
| 18:26.32 | *** part/#android caseydavis (n=pirch@cdavis.ucok.edu) |
| 18:26.40 | morrildl | BTW, the WikiPedia entry on GPS is really good, though really long :) |
| 18:26.58 | RyeBrye | I saw a cool little animated thing somewhere once on GPS that had nice little circles overlapping... etc. |
| 18:28.10 | DJTachyon | okay back to work, later all |
| 18:28.38 | *** part/#android dj1 (n=dolanmor@88-111-85-203.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com) |
| 18:30.43 | morrildl | RyeBrye: thanks for the clarification :) |
| 18:30.54 | RyeBrye | morrildl - np |
| 18:32.13 | *** join/#android jmo (n=joeo@74.125.60.1) |
| 18:32.24 | languish | damn. I wish I had taken screenshots of the HTC sites G1 specs back when I was looking at hardware issues. they're "corrected" the page (good), but the "corrected specs" are reduced and less specific than what they had before. *sigh* (bad) |
| 18:32.36 | languish | *they've |
| 18:32.44 | falstaff_ | My application gets update over wifi every second. When android gets to sleep, he turns off wifi. When i wake it up again, he brings a Operation timed out exception (wifi is not yet ready to connect...) Can I somehow register a event, when wifi is connected and ready? |
| 18:33.06 | jasta | falstaff_: yes, see ConnectivityManager |
| 18:33.27 | *** join/#android dj1 (n=dolanmor@88-111-85-203.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com) |
| 18:34.11 | jasta | morrildl: you guys should definitely produce documentation detailing Android's behaviour in response to various network conditions and events. this is something i was hoping for long before devices came out and am genuinely surprised it still doesn't exist |
| 18:34.26 | morrildl | jasta: what do you mean? |
| 18:34.34 | jasta | reading the DownloadProvider code was invaluable to me once i had the opportunity. |
| 18:34.51 | morrildl | jasta: do you mean what Intents get broadcast under what circumstances...? |
| 18:35.01 | *** join/#android raidfive (n=adam@c-24-20-93-157.hsd1.wa.comcast.net) |
| 18:35.12 | ttuttle | ping |
| 18:35.16 | jasta | morrildl: i mean like detailing the behaviour of the radio when it switches between EDGE and 3G, that when wi-fi connets it shuts off mobile data connections, that wifi shuts off some number of seconds after the screen turns off, the proper way to hold a wifilock, etc |
| 18:35.16 | ttuttle | am I still here? |
| 18:35.26 | RyeBrye | languish - how long ago was it? any case the archive.org people snagged it? |
| 18:35.28 | falstaff_ | jasta: yeah, looked at that allready, but couldnt find an event... okey, i can wait untill getState says its connected... do you know an implementation? |
| 18:35.29 | jasta | what a good recommended connect and read timeout is, how to properly respond to timed out connections, etc |
| 18:35.31 | morrildl | jasta: okay |
| 18:35.39 | ttuttle | jasta: /me wrote the wifi idle/wifilock stuff. What's your question? |
| 18:35.43 | morrildl | jasta: I'll forward that along to the tech writers |
| 18:36.00 | d0netsFN | $ sudo svn co http://pauldoo.dyndns.org/svn/Tuner/trunk |
| 18:36.01 | d0netsFN | svn: error while loading shared libraries: libneon-gnutls.so.27: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory |
| 18:36.02 | d0netsFN | any ideas? |
| 18:36.11 | ttuttle | d0netsFN: distro? |
| 18:36.18 | jasta | ttuttle: i dont have any questions now, i have discovered the answers to all of those questions myself already |
| 18:36.20 | d0netsFN | 8.10 |
| 18:36.25 | d0netsFN | (ubuntu) |
| 18:36.39 | phillijw | can I install windows mobile on my G1? |
| 18:36.39 | vol | wait, why are you using sudo |
| 18:36.43 | *** join/#android mocsrox (n=wliu@user-64-9-237-183.googlewifi.com) |
| 18:36.46 | vol | phillijw: pretty sure you can't. |
| 18:36.46 | ttuttle | phillijw: Why?! |
| 18:36.50 | ttuttle | phillijw: Also, /me hopes not. |
| 18:36.50 | vol | nor would you want to? |
| 18:36.59 | phillijw | ttuttle: more of a joke but also a serious question for giggles |
| 18:37.11 | d0netsFN | cause i tried without sudo and it didnt work |
| 18:37.17 | d0netsFN | so i tried with just to make sure |
| 18:37.24 | ttuttle | donomo: Try installing libneon? |
| 18:37.54 | KNY | phillijw, as a serious response, I'm pretty sure WinMo doesn't support capacitive screens, so, no |
| 18:37.55 | jasta | morrildl: it's of course possible for anyone to just do a bit of trial and error to learn all these things |
| 18:38.03 | jasta | and reading android source for other apps |
| 18:38.20 | morrildl | jasta: we need to flesh out the knowledge base, and this would be a good fit for that |
| 18:38.32 | jasta | but there's no good reason you wouldn't just neatly collect all that information into one concise faq type document. |
| 18:38.32 | d0netsFN | it was |
| 18:38.34 | d0netsFN | im trying to reinstall |
| 18:38.35 | d0netsFN | one sec |
| 18:38.54 | jasta | it would have been really nice to have before i had my g1 too, when trial and error was not possible :) |
| 18:40.51 | d0netsFN | that didnt work either |
| 18:42.45 | vol | d0netsFN: hold on |
| 18:42.51 | vol | are you in a directory where you need permissions to do this? |
| 18:42.58 | vol | because if not, you really don't need sudo |
| 18:44.04 | tauno | whoa.. hold on, so the final conclusion was that the G1 does not do aGPS? (and by aGPS I mean downloading ephemeris data from the net) and it also does not do cell-triangulation and uses just a plain GPS or maps the current cell using the same method that the gmaps j2me client does? (eg using just one cell) ? |
| 18:44.06 | d0netsFN | i did it with sudo |
| 18:44.28 | d0netsFN | and without |
| 18:44.46 | romainguy_ | tauno: it can certainly use the cell ID to get your position |
| 18:45.14 | tauno | romainguy_, yes I know - and it uses just the one active cell and does no triangulation, right? |
| 18:45.51 | *** join/#android an_dev (n=fih\paya@host-208-68-238-61.biznesshosting.net) |
| 18:47.01 | tauno | (eg when you have gps on, then the app (at least in the j2me client) sends your lat/lon and visible cell to google and based on that info, the server itself calculates the cell-size etc so other people without gps can get a somewhat accurate position) |
| 18:47.56 | vol | wait, cell meaning in this case, what? |
| 18:48.01 | tauno | cellID |
| 18:48.18 | *** join/#android LanceHaig (n=lanceh@foresight/member/lhaig) |
| 18:48.19 | vol | sorry, still lost. you don't mean phone id? |
| 18:48.22 | ttuttle | Wow... |
| 18:48.23 | vol | tower id? |
| 18:48.33 | tauno | not tower ID, cell ID ;) |
| 18:48.33 | jasta | yawn |
| 18:48.36 | vol | I know little/nothing about agps : ( |
| 18:48.40 | ttuttle | If I play one of the surround sound channel wav files from alsa through my bluetooth headset, it reboots. :\ |
| 18:49.20 | vol | ttuttle: the .wav file is "Reboot", isn't it. |
| 18:49.43 | ttuttle | No. |
| 18:49.46 | ttuttle | It's Front_Left.wav. |
| 18:49.48 | ttuttle | ;-) |
| 18:50.07 | vol | (reboot) |
| 18:50.56 | *** part/#android LanceHaig (n=lanceh@foresight/member/lhaig) |
| 18:51.23 | jasta | tauno: cell ID is basically tower ID, they just don't call it that. |
| 18:51.41 | *** join/#android dglazkov (n=dglazkov@nat/google/x-d0e55309b5b8c1af) |
| 18:52.15 | raidfive | is it possible to execute some code after the Activity UI has been successfully loaded? or do I need to fire off another thread in the onCreate() ? |
| 18:52.15 | jasta | cell ID is just a way to fingerprint the towers (more specifically, the cell that the tower provides) |
| 18:52.20 | tauno | jasta, I know what a cell id is:) one tower has many cells.. each broadcasting in a different direction.. and each have ther own ID.. so it's not a general tower id |
| 18:53.26 | jasta | right ok. |
| 18:53.37 | tauno | so it's 1 tower -> many cell ID's |
| 18:53.52 | *** join/#android raidfive (n=adam@c-24-20-93-157.hsd1.wa.comcast.net) |
| 18:54.00 | tauno | jasta, I see whe understand the same way :) |
| 18:54.03 | vol | jasta: thanks |
| 18:54.05 | tauno | it* |
| 18:54.10 | vol | tauno too |
| 18:54.11 | vol | ok |
| 18:54.31 | vol | I didn't realize that different directions would be "different" for the tower |
| 18:54.40 | jasta | tauno: which is different than triangulation, yes? i understand location based on the cell id as very crudely mapping to the region the tower is serving (or of course the particular cell of the tower) |
| 18:55.42 | jasta | whereas triangulation is based on computing distances to base stations (and nothing to do with the cell) |
| 18:56.09 | ttuttle | vol: Well, it's cheaper than putting in more towers. |
| 18:56.22 | vol | I'm sure it is : ) |
| 18:56.57 | tauno | jasta, basically yes |
| 18:57.12 | RyeBrye | I didn't know Synaptics was part of the OHA. |
| 18:57.39 | *** join/#android androoid (n=android@12.193.57.162) |
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| 18:59.03 | *** mode/#android [+o cbeust] by ChanServ |
| 18:59.03 | fadden | http://www.openhandsetalliance.com/oha_members.html |
| 18:59.28 | RyeBrye | yeah, i saw that |
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| 19:00.08 | *** join/#android raidfive (n=adam@c-24-20-93-157.hsd1.wa.comcast.net) |
| 19:01.35 | RyeBrye | So is TI going to release code to make it easy to rebuild their wlan driver? They put out a press release on the 22nd that was touting how heplful they are being and they described it as: "Pre-integrating the codes into the Android platform" - which means what? |
| 19:02.03 | ttuttle | RyeBrye: Heh. |
| 19:02.12 | ttuttle | RyeBrye: Corporate_doublespeak-- (unless it's from Google) |
| 19:02.26 | *** join/#android spearce (n=spearce@72.14.229.81) |
| 19:02.26 | RyeBrye | Yeah, it's definitely doublespeak... WTF are the "codes" they are "pre-integrating" ? |
| 19:02.46 | raidfive | not sure if anyone replied to my previous message, client was acting up and no messages were being displayed. I don't even know if my message made it into the channel ... |
| 19:02.49 | RyeBrye | Do they refer to the pre-compiled kernel module? or do they have some kind of source code they are going to drop? |
| 19:02.50 | *** join/#android bmandrin (n=bmandrin@acces0106.res.insa-lyon.fr) |
| 19:03.14 | ttuttle | wants to smack anyone who says "codes". |
| 19:03.16 | ttuttle | It's "CODE"! |
| 19:03.19 | *** join/#android jlapenna (n=jlapenna@nat/google/x-6a5667fb6d9a50c3) |
| 19:03.52 | benley | haxorz the c0D3zzzz |
| 19:04.00 | ttuttle | benley++ |
| 19:04.04 | ttuttle | benley: ohai |
| 19:04.30 | RyeBrye | benley - now if only you can pre-integrate the c0d3zzz |
| 19:05.08 | morrildl | ttuttle: what's even worse is "maths" |
| 19:05.25 | ttuttle | morrildl: maths is okay. It's the British variant. |
| 19:05.26 | benley | maths is a cultural difference |
| 19:05.32 | benley | americans call it 'math', everyone else says 'maths' |
| 19:05.38 | morrildl | so is "codes" for the most part |
| 19:05.43 | benley | that used to bother me but I got over it |
| 19:05.44 | ttuttle | morrildl: Oh, is it really? |
| 19:05.47 | wastrel | i call it "math" |
| 19:05.56 | ttuttle | morrildl: I didn't know that. I usually heard "code" from programmers, and "codes" from marketing. |
| 19:05.56 | phillijw | the word for 'influence' in italian is influenza... i dont want to be of influence in italy now |
| 19:06.00 | morrildl | ttuttle: I know a lot of Canadians who say "codes", but very few Americans |
| 19:06.01 | languish | if it's codes, then there are codesbreakerers? |
| 19:06.01 | ttuttle | phillijw: lol |
| 19:06.40 | phillijw | maths is short for MATHematicS whic his kind of silly to have an S |
| 19:06.41 | andyross | Brits add extra letters to everything. Might as well be wrong in my book. |
| 19:07.00 | RyeBrye | morrildl - apparently in Texas they speak of "codes" http://focus.ti.com/pr/docs/preldetail.tsp?sectionId=594&prelId=sc08143 |
| 19:07.23 | RyeBrye | (well, technically San Diago and DALLAS are on the byline - but the instruments are from Texas) |
| 19:08.56 | ttuttle | can't wait for A2DP support in Android. |
| 19:09.54 | andyross | Sadly that has to come from the google folks. The audio output stream support isn't meaningfully pluggable AFAICT; you'd need to rebuild the core libraries. |
| 19:09.54 | tauno | can't wait for ListViews that know how to behave in case of variable sized items :) |
| 19:10.01 | languish | can't wait for ttuttle to work for google |
| 19:10.05 | languish | *chuckle* |
| 19:10.18 | ttuttle | really wants pluggable LocationProviders. |
| 19:10.22 | ttuttle | languish: It may happen again this summer. |
| 19:10.28 | vol | can't wait to wait |
| 19:10.33 | languish | ttuttle, good luck :) |
| 19:10.33 | *** part/#android bmandrin (n=bmandrin@acces0106.res.insa-lyon.fr) |
| 19:10.34 | andyross | I guess you could write a userspace A2DP player, but obviously it wouldn't work with existing software. |
| 19:10.38 | ttuttle | languish: Thanks ;-) |
| 19:11.13 | RyeBrye | ttuttle - are the locatin providers not pluggable yet? |
| 19:11.19 | Disconnect | can't wait for the killer app thats gonna cause screaming and yelling for goog/tmob to open the g1 :) |
| 19:11.19 | ttuttle | RyeBrye: I don't think so. |
| 19:11.33 | Damm | andyross, hrm, can user space influence the bluetooth profiles? |
| 19:11.49 | ttuttle | RyeBrye: They don't have WiFi positioning or IP geolocation providers yet. I'd like to write one or both. |
| 19:12.27 | Disconnect | Damm: if i'm understanding your question, userspace can but only as root. (userspace is in fact where most of the bt stuff lives, so file browsing, rfcomm/tethering, etc is all part of the userspace side.) |
| 19:13.01 | Damm | Disconnect, that's kind of what I figured. |
| 19:13.09 | Disconnect | but thats a case where it wouldn't be a huge problem to integrate it to android and/or do it as nonroot (daemons - mostly - run as root, but that doesn't mean the platform can't write out the configs as whatever user it wants, or none..) |
| 19:13.16 | *** join/#android g1er_Zz_ (n=chatzill@c-67-161-176-213.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
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| 19:13.29 | *** part/#android bmandrin (n=bmandrin@acces0106.res.insa-lyon.fr) |
| 19:13.38 | Damm | wasn't google going to release A2DP anywho? |
| 19:14.05 | Disconnect | the big "omg we need root for daemons/services" thing is for ones that aren't bundled already (openvpn/vpnc/ipsec/.. for example. or any other time you want to do something google didn't think of or didn't write yet :) ..) |
| 19:14.38 | Disconnect | yah but i haven't seen an eta. (not that worried personally, i have no stereo bt devices, and if i get that bored - or get one for holidays - i can always hack it in myself until the platform catches up :) ..) |
| 19:15.11 | Damm | it'll be there in time. |
| 19:15.18 | Damm | patience is usually a good thing right now |
| 19:15.30 | Damm | G1 has alot of growing to do, and we'll see alot of changes over the next 2 years with it |
| 19:15.51 | Disconnect | yah |
| 19:17.30 | wastrel | g1 is a good test platform for android :] |
| 19:17.43 | wastrel | will be eager to upgrade to the next thing |
| 19:17.43 | RyeBrye | yeah, it's a good reference device |
| 19:17.51 | languish | right |
| 19:17.59 | languish | it's not a great retail market device |
| 19:18.06 | languish | *sigh* |
| 19:18.12 | Disconnect | languish: every time i say that i get yelled at :) |
| 19:18.13 | `vip | how do i change channels with connectbot ? |
| 19:18.13 | wastrel | also i bet that bacon iphone sleeve that's doing the rounds on the gadget blogs would fit the g1 |
| 19:18.15 | Damm | no it never was designed to be. |
| 19:18.28 | Damm | `vip, touch screen |
| 19:18.31 | languish | Disconnect, they're getting used to me saying it |
| 19:18.35 | Damm | finger to the lft or right |
| 19:18.35 | vol | `vip: depends what you're using for irc |
| 19:18.37 | wastrel | languish: do you have a recommendation for a good 35mm jack adapter for g1? |
| 19:18.41 | vol | wait what? |
| 19:18.42 | `vip | irssi |
| 19:18.46 | Damm | if your referring to connectbot screens |
| 19:18.52 | Damm | if your trying to switch channels... |
| 19:18.54 | vol | fingering to the left/right is a shortcut to ctrl-n ctrl-p? |
| 19:18.55 | vol | oh |
| 19:19.05 | vol | `vip: press the scrollwheel to simulate ctrl |
| 19:19.07 | RyeBrye | Has anyone looked inside the case to see if there is enough room to dremel in a 35mm headphone jack? |
| 19:19.09 | Damm | vol, no i was thinking connectbot sessions |
| 19:19.09 | ttuttle | vol: no, it switches terminals, I think. |
| 19:19.10 | `vip | when i do that it just shows the same channel |
| 19:19.17 | languish | wastrel, whichever one you see that floats your boat. I suggest getting one with an L plug. |
| 19:19.18 | Damm | double press the trackball |
| 19:19.21 | Damm | and then press 1 or 2 or 3 |
| 19:19.27 | Damm | double trackball = escape |
| 19:19.48 | *** part/#android Dougie187 (n=doug@144.174.57.1) |
| 19:20.24 | wastrel | okies |
| 19:20.51 | `vip | ok got it, thanks Damm |
| 19:21.20 | languish | Google, please send me a better set of earphones for the G1. |
| 19:21.38 | wastrel | yeah i tried them for the first time last night |
| 19:21.42 | wastrel | totally don't work |
| 19:21.53 | floppyears | I wonder how many people at google actually use a g1 as their day to day cellphone |
| 19:22.07 | languish | wastrel, there's an volume dial on the headphones themselves.. turn it up |
| 19:22.10 | wastrel | i mean they worked but they kept falling out of my ears |
| 19:22.15 | languish | ah |
| 19:22.18 | Disconnect | floppyears: prolly more than you'd guess from the email app, but fewer than you'd hope from the apple example :) |
| 19:22.25 | Disconnect | wastrel: tape |
| 19:22.30 | wastrel | need an ear upgrade yeah or some sort of fastener |
| 19:22.33 | languish | wastrel, did you use the included foam pads? |
| 19:22.40 | *** join/#android anno^da_ (n=anno^da@p5492EDF0.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 19:22.40 | wastrel | that would make it worse they're too big |
| 19:22.52 | languish | nah, they create friction, |
| 19:22.53 | wastrel | imma get adapter and use my in-ear ones |
| 19:22.57 | languish | so they don't fall |
| 19:23.52 | KNY | what's everyone's beef with the Email app? |
| 19:23.52 | wastrel | someting about delete |
| 19:23.52 | languish | yeah, the adaptor annoys me |
| 19:23.52 | wastrel | i need also streaming audio sources/app |
| 19:23.52 | languish | KNY, besides it sending multiple incomplete messages *while composing* ? |
| 19:24.22 | languish | KNY with the suggested solution being "don't put in the destination address til last" |
| 19:24.24 | KNY | languish, ahh, that's what that is? I wondered why I'd get empty messages send to me :) |
| 19:24.53 | *** join/#android incandenza (n=incanden@12.44.147.155) |
| 19:24.56 | KNY | yeah, when replying, sometimes it will send a blank reply to myself |
| 19:25.03 | *** join/#android Dougie187 (n=doug@wg-d232031.dsl.fsu.edu) |
| 19:25.39 | wastrel | trying to autosave drafts? |
| 19:25.44 | wastrel | ah no i'm thinking the gmail app |
| 19:25.50 | wastrel | i've not used the imap client much |
| 19:26.36 | KNY | I guess the thing that bugs me about the email app is that it doesn't work well with Google Apps For Your Domain |
| 19:26.40 | KNY | which it should just treat like gmail |
| 19:26.53 | Disconnect | KNY: it doesn't send changes to the server (read, deleted) in any sort of reasonable interval, it doesn't poll when it says it will, it doesn't support copy/move messages, it doesn't support "delete these 3 messages" ... |
| 19:27.13 | KNY | ah |
| 19:27.24 | KNY | well, I suppose that means someone should write a better one :) |
| 19:27.31 | wastrel | KNY: i registered the phone with my google apps account (per languish's recommendation) |
| 19:27.37 | wastrel | so the gmail app works for my domain mail |
| 19:27.52 | KNY | wasabi, yeah, but that's not my primary method of communication |
| 19:27.54 | phillijw | what if you have 14 domains like myself |
| 19:27.57 | Disconnect | KNY: k-9 and (sorry jasta, i forgot yours) are forks of the goog one that work better (or have different features, etc) |
| 19:27.58 | KNY | phillijw, exactly |
| 19:28.13 | wastrel | you have a complicated life :] |
| 19:28.15 | Disconnect | KNY: the problem is the super-cramped onboard storage |
| 19:28.16 | KNY | Disconnect, ahh. |
| 19:28.26 | ttuttle | You guys should merge. |
| 19:28.40 | Disconnect | i'd hate to have to install doubles of all the apps (k-9 cuz email sucks, spelldial cuz the dialer is annoying, etc etc) |
| 19:28.41 | wastrel | i used to have a crapload of email addresses but pared down to work, home, untrusted stuff |
| 19:28.42 | KNY | Disconnect, cramped? how much space do they take? |
| 19:28.59 | ttuttle | What's spelldial? |
| 19:29.34 | Disconnect | ttuttle: lets you t-9 dial to select contacts. (eg 8888 to search ttut and variants) |
| 19:29.36 | KNY | ttuttle, http://www.mobilecrunch.com/2008/10/28/android-speed-reviews-twidroid-lolcat-builder-spelldial-budgetdroid-krystle-ii-callerid-santas-war/ |
| 19:29.37 | ttuttle | Ah. |
| 19:29.44 | Disconnect | its sweet actually :) |
| 19:29.58 | ttuttle | Disconnect: You see now why logging in as "ttuttle" somewhere on a phone with T9 sucks. |
| 19:30.04 | Disconnect | hehe |
| 19:30.09 | Disconnect | not my fault |
| 19:30.16 | ttuttle | 8, right, 8, right, 8, 8, right, 8, right, 5, 5, 5, 3, 3. |
| 19:30.21 | ttuttle | it's all the rights that suck. |
| 19:30.40 | vol | that's an enormous url |
| 19:30.50 | ttuttle | vol: SEO! |
| 19:31.25 | Disconnect | ttuttle: t9 would be 8888853 btw. one press per letter |
| 19:31.31 | ttuttle | Disconnect: Oh, yeah. |
| 19:31.51 | ttuttle | Disconnect: /me meant regular multitap. |
| 19:32.04 | Disconnect | yah |
| 19:32.11 | vol | lha |
| 19:32.13 | vol | er |
| 19:32.14 | vol | ha |
| 19:32.21 | floppyears | what are some must have apps in a g1 ? |
| 19:32.30 | *** join/#android jexe (n=jesseboy@static-64-115-213-78.isp.broadviewnet.net) |
| 19:32.47 | languish | porn |
| 19:32.49 | KNY | well, I assume the home application is needed |
| 19:32.50 | wastrel | i like the drawing one |
| 19:32.51 | languish | no porn app yet |
| 19:32.51 | wastrel | bluebrush |
| 19:33.01 | KNY | Messaging and Contacts would be handy |
| 19:33.02 | *** join/#android an_dev1 (n=fih\paya@host-208-68-238-61.biznesshosting.net) |
| 19:33.07 | KNY | :) |
| 19:33.08 | vol | floppyears: just get all of them. I don't think there are any that cost money yet |
| 19:33.26 | wastrel | i love krystle ii but it doesn't save the fur preference |
| 19:33.34 | wastrel | so i have to reset to the classic fur every time. |
| 19:33.38 | wastrel | hrm i could just downgrade |
| 19:34.09 | *** join/#android bert02 (n=bert@c-71-230-145-119.hsd1.nj.comcast.net) |
| 19:34.15 | Disconnect | vol: its hard to get even many of them, with the storage crunch |
| 19:34.26 | wastrel | i like spelldial |
| 19:34.41 | *** join/#android kristianpaul (n=paul@190.165.3.86) |
| 19:34.58 | tauno | MarioSimulator |
| 19:35.01 | Disconnect | 10.2Mcom.android.browser <-- not helping :( |
| 19:35.02 | KNY | Disconnect, I have 43 MB free |
| 19:35.04 | bert02 | whats everyones favorite app so far on the market? |
| 19:35.28 | kRutOn | tip calculator |
| 19:35.34 | KNY | bert02, that's a pretty vague question. you might as well ask what the "best program ever" is |
| 19:35.35 | tauno | iSkoot :) |
| 19:35.53 | KNY | :) |
| 19:36.01 | unix_lappy | heh, a proper tethering app, when it comes into existence would probably be mine :-P |
| 19:36.20 | KNY | unix_lappy, definitely |
| 19:36.26 | kristianpaul | can i run android SDK with Open JDK? |
| 19:36.29 | Disconnect | unix_lappy: root it and set up rfcomm+ppp |
| 19:36.29 | KNY | via bluetooth |
| 19:36.50 | jasta | Disconnect: uhm, no, mine is not a fork |
| 19:36.56 | jasta | and as such, it has no name, |
| 19:37.06 | jasta | it is merely a set of patches to add IMAP IDLE support |
| 19:37.07 | unix_lappy | Disconnect: i'm all about hackery, but I dont trust myself with root on a mobile device. |
| 19:37.10 | vol | Disconnect: Honestly, I've just gone through and downloaded everything that sounded interesting. |
| 19:37.15 | *** join/#android lresende (n=luckbr19@32.97.110.58) |
| 19:37.25 | vol | I still have some room left. When I found myself getting low, I just got rid of some of the apps I didn't use or like |
| 19:37.53 | KNY | yeah |
| 19:38.03 | languish | next to the IM/gmail apps, I've been using "countdown alarm++" the most |
| 19:38.04 | KNY | installing to SD will be a welcome update |
| 19:38.08 | unix_lappy | unless there are some recovery measures in place i'm not aware of. |
| 19:38.14 | KNY | looks at Google employees |
| 19:38.19 | vol | I do like the Real Programmer's Calculator |
| 19:38.21 | tauno | I haven't actually found a single app that I use - I downloaded everything that looked like they might be something... and tried them.. but I haven't used them afterwards :| |
| 19:38.25 | Damm | http://www.informationweek.com/blog/main/archives/2008/10/androids_mobile.html |
| 19:38.32 | Disconnect | vol: http://pastebin.ca/1259623 |
| 19:38.34 | vol | I've been using budgetdroid quite a bit |
| 19:38.35 | kRutOn | kristianpaul: I think it has some problems with gnome accessibility, but it works fine if you disable it |
| 19:38.38 | Damm | i do love reading posts with people whining about the 'connection error' |
| 19:38.48 | Damm | and yet 'it must be fixed'... you run a beta device |
| 19:38.59 | kristianpaul | i'll try then |
| 19:39.03 | KNY | Disconnect, --si |
| 19:39.03 | Disconnect | unix_lappy: the recovery is easy, just redo the rc30 flash-from-sd |
| 19:39.18 | bert0 | I am enjoying the connectbot |
| 19:39.24 | bert0 | as we speak |
| 19:39.34 | KNY | ConnectBot is excellent |
| 19:39.41 | ttuttle | KNY: You should toss them a few dollars then. I did. |
| 19:39.44 | vol | I am not enjoying the 3%/min of battery life that connectbot + irssi burns |
| 19:39.54 | vol | : ( |
| 19:40.03 | KNY | ttuttle, I will as soon as I figure out how to enter "ctrl" |
| 19:40.09 | bert0 | it doesn't do that for me |
| 19:40.09 | Damm | vol, you didn't buy an external battery pack yet? |
| 19:40.16 | vol | Damm: I didn't realize they had it yet |
| 19:40.16 | Damm | I get 5 days usage of connectbot now |
| 19:40.17 | Disconnect | over half of /data/data is my browser cache (gee, wouldn't /cache be a better place for that?) |
| 19:40.21 | Damm | it's only 50pounds |
| 19:40.28 | unix_lappy | Disconnect: i wonder if bricking your G1 due to a security flaw is covered under warranty :-P |
| 19:40.29 | Damm | </sarcasm> |
| 19:40.31 | bert0 | connectbot is probably the most efficient app on my g1 |
| 19:40.32 | ttuttle | KNY: Double-press trackball. |
| 19:40.37 | Disconnect | KNY: hit menu->about from the connections list and it shows all the shortcuts. |
| 19:40.39 | vol | Disconnect: /data/manbearpig |
| 19:40.53 | KNY | interesting. I thought I looked through the controls list. |
| 19:40.56 | Damm | bert0, it really is... the only problem is that the G1 doesn't really have a way to turn down the CPU power afaik. |
| 19:40.57 | KNY | takes another look |
| 19:41.08 | Damm | so you have the cpu going full bore, and the radios trying to be on constantly |
| 19:41.12 | Damm | = leaking siv |
| 19:41.17 | *** join/#android ttuttle (n=tom@pdpc/supporter/student/gentoo.contributor.ttuttle) |
| 19:41.34 | KNY | oh and I hate that ConnectBot makes you unlock your keys all the time. Why does it do that? |
| 19:41.36 | *** part/#android kristianpaul (n=paul@190.165.3.86) |
| 19:41.36 | ttuttle | back |
| 19:41.44 | Damm | KNY, don't give it a password |
| 19:41.44 | kRutOn | I was trying to test ConnectBot on long-running connections but the Wi-Fi in the G1 seems to suck. |
| 19:41.51 | kRutOn | And I don't have any T-Mo service. |
| 19:41.56 | jbq | Disconnect: yes, /cache would be a better place for the browser cache (and many other kinds of caches). |
| 19:41.56 | KNY | Damm, it doesn't. |
| 19:41.56 | ttuttle | kRutOn: ...yeah. |
| 19:42.04 | bert0 | well it's to be expected I guess...I usually have a charger handy |
| 19:42.07 | KNY | but I still have to go click the red lock and make it green |
| 19:42.10 | Damm | KNY, using the market version? |
| 19:42.15 | KNY | Damm, yes |
| 19:42.18 | Damm | that's why |
| 19:42.24 | Damm | ... get the latest developer release |
| 19:42.30 | Disconnect | anyone know what browser/app_thumbnails is? |
| 19:42.31 | Damm | code.google.com/p/connectbot |
| 19:42.46 | Disconnect | other than 5 megs i want back :) |
| 19:42.49 | Damm | the market is only stable releases it barely has key support |
| 19:42.54 | ttuttle | Disconnect: thumbnails of web pages |
| 19:42.58 | KNY | Damm, ahh. |
| 19:42.59 | Damm | Disconnect, don't make me spank you. |
| 19:43.12 | Disconnect | Damm: wtf? |
| 19:43.19 | Disconnect | ttuttle: cool. time to make it go byebye then. |
| 19:43.20 | Damm | KNY, however i have a passwordless key and works flawless. |
| 19:43.25 | Damm | Disconnect, aroused? :/ |
| 19:43.27 | Disconnect | (shouldn't it be wiped with the cache clear? annoying) |
| 19:44.11 | jbq | Disconnect: yes, it should (and yes it's annoying!) |
| 19:46.01 | bert0 | I wish I had a timeframe on AADP release |
| 19:46.02 | jasta | what are you guys' thoughts on the built in music player? |
| 19:46.34 | bert0 | I can't wait to replace it with VLC |
| 19:46.36 | wastrel | i'd like to be able to stream music from internet sources ;] |
| 19:46.38 | unix_lappy | you guys'...classic ;-) |
| 19:47.00 | Neverender1 | its ok.. |
| 19:47.04 | Neverender1 | could be better |
| 19:47.43 | Disconnect | jasta: i'd like it to not go insane when i use the (htc-branded) charge/listen splitter |
| 19:47.52 | Disconnect | (or even if i don't) |
| 19:48.12 | wastrel | Disconnect: do you like that? i was thinking of getting one |
| 19:48.14 | jasta | how do you mean? is that a bug in the music app? |
| 19:48.18 | bert0 | I wish it had bluetooth |
| 19:48.28 | Disconnect | wastrel: other than it going insane its fine. but that means i don't use it much. |
| 19:48.39 | unix_lappy | define: insane |
| 19:48.46 | jasta | i mean from a usability standpoint by the way. |
| 19:48.52 | jasta | look and feel |
| 19:49.14 | unix_lappy | jasta: when the iTouch / iPhone is the gold standard? |
| 19:49.14 | Disconnect | jasta: yah it behaves erratically - every 30-90 seconds (occasionally more frequently) it jumps back to the main "just opened" page and begins playing a random track. it loses history (so you can't rwd to the track it skipped) and dumps out of any playlist it was previously in |
| 19:49.45 | jasta | Disconnect: that's probably not a bug in the MediaPlayer, but rather your adapter sending goofy messages to the phone |
| 19:49.52 | wastrel | hrm i should just get a bluetooth thingy instead of the adapter |
| 19:50.12 | jasta | unix_lappy: sure, i am just curious what you all think |
| 19:50.14 | Disconnect | htc branded adapter, and what message is "shit on the floor and cry"? cuz that command certainly isn't in the gui :) |
| 19:50.18 | *** join/#android BlackBsd (n=brian@72.168.193.117) |
| 19:50.21 | wastrel | but you can't play music over the bluetooth earpiece? |
| 19:51.01 | jasta | Disconnect: there are a lot of commands that those devices can send to ehd evice, including open main screen, rewind song, set random, etc. |
| 19:51.10 | jasta | that the adapters can send i mean |
| 19:51.20 | morrildl | Disconnect: that is highly anomalous. We've tested with those things fairly extensively. My guess is that it's a defective adapter |
| 19:51.38 | jasta | anyway, does anyone have opinions on the look and feel of the app? |
| 19:51.51 | Neverender1 | jasta: its not ugly |
| 19:51.54 | bert0 | It's missing the bluetooth button |
| 19:51.56 | Neverender1 | but its not pretty either |
| 19:52.00 | morrildl | jasta: you mean the built-in player? I actually like it |
| 19:52.05 | Disconnect | morrildl: tried it with the standard right-angle adapter as well, youtube was fine but music player had the same issues. not sure of that adapter branding tho, so.. |
| 19:52.11 | jasta | morrildl: can you elaborate? |
| 19:52.19 | jasta | Neverender1: what would you like to see improved? |
| 19:52.23 | floppyears | I hate that built in player. Why use white boxy icons in a black background ? |
| 19:52.29 | morrildl | jasta: but then I find the iTunes UI obnoxious, so I may not be the best judge |
| 19:52.49 | jasta | the reason i ask is because certain aspects of it i like and have absorbed into my app. i'm hoping i didn't go too far or whatever. |
| 19:52.58 | jasta | morrildl: what about it don't you like? |
| 19:52.59 | morrildl | jasta: I find the green color scheme a little too "Matrix" |
| 19:53.01 | floppyears | jasta: got screenshots of your app ? |
| 19:53.10 | jasta | floppyears: only older ones. |
| 19:53.11 | unix_lappy | jasta: i find the progress bar a little too obtrusive. |
| 19:53.13 | morrildl | jasta: but other than that I like that you can start at the top and find what you are looking for. |
| 19:53.28 | morrildl | jasta: there are probably some ways to improve the way it uses the ListView for the albums |
| 19:53.44 | jasta | i am certainly not taking the ExpandableListView |
| 19:53.52 | jasta | i can't believe they did that for the artist/album list |
| 19:53.53 | Disconnect | there were a couple of things i disliked, i'll mess with it again this evening and make notes. |
| 19:54.08 | bert0 | Are there skins available for the built in music player? how about for your app |
| 19:54.14 | morrildl | jasta: the only thing that I really dislike about the Music app is how hard it can be to get back to the playback screen |
| 19:54.34 | jasta | morrildl: really? because that i am doing the same as them currently |
| 19:54.47 | morrildl | jasta: specifically, I don't like that the behavior is different if you select the Notification vs. if you go to Home and launch from icon |
| 19:54.49 | jasta | the main way to get back is either with the notification or with a menu entry on each screen |
| 19:55.22 | morrildl | actually I misspoke |
| 19:55.28 | jasta | morrildl: hmm, that is a fair complaint, and one that could be fixed actually |
| 19:55.38 | morrildl | What I meant is that I dislike how hard it can be to get *out of* the playback screen sometimes |
| 19:55.39 | jasta | you could have the launcher open conditionally, if playing, go to player, if not, go to home |
| 19:55.54 | morrildl | i.e. if you go Notification->Playback, and hit back, you end up at Home |
| 19:56.00 | jasta | ahh, ok. i fixed that in my app. the reason back doesn't work right is because they set no task affinity |
| 19:56.03 | jasta | whereas i do not do that |
| 19:56.10 | morrildl | but if you launch from Home while playing you get Playback and if you hit Back it goes to the album list |
| 19:56.14 | jasta | so if you get into the player screen from the notification or wherever, back just gets you out |
| 19:56.31 | morrildl | jasta: yeah. |
| 19:56.36 | jasta | thats just the task affinity |
| 19:56.44 | jasta | which i didnt copy :) |
| 19:56.46 | bert0 | skins? |
| 19:57.15 | jasta | bert0: i do not intend to support skins. it is not a good fit for mobile devices. |
| 19:57.16 | floppyears | jasta: what does your app do ? |
| 19:57.28 | jasta | floppyears: http://five.googlecode.com, the screenshots are old, but you should still get the idea of what it does. |
| 19:57.42 | unix_lappy | would be interesting if not extraneous to see the skin adapt to the album cover's color scheme. |
| 19:57.53 | unix_lappy | sort of like that adaptive wordpress photo theme. |
| 19:58.14 | jasta | morrildl: i tend to like quite a few things about it and have copied it certainly more than the iphone |
| 19:58.16 | bert0 | likes skins |
| 19:58.22 | jasta | i think functioanlly the iphone/ipod touch interface is not that great actually |
| 19:58.44 | morrildl | jasta: yes, like I said on the whole I like it. I hate the way the iPhone did it. I still say that the best music-player UI died with the clickwheel |
| 19:58.59 | jasta | though i have made my app some measure prettier than the built in music app, which i think made a lot of poor choices for simple things like padding and such |
| 19:59.21 | wastrel | maybe it supports different resolutions better :] |
| 19:59.35 | jasta | and the music app clutters with too much info. like when you select an album it shows the name of the artist and album on each row |
| 19:59.47 | jasta | which i dont do |
| 19:59.53 | Neverender1 | what about an equalizer? |
| 20:00.04 | jasta | morrildl: i was mostly just looking to copy the basic work flow though, which i have done for the most part now in HEAD ;) |
| 20:00.13 | jasta | Neverender1: Android makes that impractical/impossible |
| 20:00.21 | bert0 | It runs via linux... |
| 20:00.25 | bert0 | I like it |
| 20:00.53 | jasta | morrildl: can you clarify whether the images are creative commons or similar btw? |
| 20:01.00 | floppyears | what about making useful things with metadata |
| 20:01.02 | jasta | because i have stolen quite a few from the music player and other android apps |
| 20:01.17 | jasta | floppyears: can you be more specific please? |
| 20:01.20 | floppyears | like: playing songs that I've played a lot recently, or songs that I haven't played in a while, etc |
| 20:01.29 | jasta | oh, i intend to have auto playlists like that |
| 20:01.33 | jasta | mostly using last.fm data to compute |
| 20:01.44 | floppyears | jasta: if you can implement some of the karam rio metadata stuff that it had, it would be awesome |
| 20:01.47 | jasta | but my project is not to a point where features like that are a priority |
| 20:01.52 | *** join/#android p_quarles (n=lee@unaffiliated/pquarles) |
| 20:01.59 | *** join/#android mikey| (n=mike@93-96-140-104.zone4.bethere.co.uk) |
| 20:02.20 | jasta | floppyears: would you mind posting this request to my issue list in some measure of detail? i am interested in what my users think... |
| 20:02.31 | floppyears | jasta: will do |
| 20:02.35 | floppyears | adds it to his todo list |
| 20:02.36 | *** join/#android nebi (n=nebi@c-ac8fe253.02-145-7570701.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se) |
| 20:02.40 | mikey| | sweeet, my irc app is working :D |
| 20:02.44 | ttuttle | mikey|: Nice. |
| 20:02.47 | *** join/#android mikey|irc (n=Al@93-96-140-104.zone4.bethere.co.uk) |
| 20:02.53 | mikey| | ^ thats the emulator |
| 20:03.12 | morrildl | jasta: you mean the Music app icons? |
| 20:03.17 | Neverender1 | jasta: for your app or android as a whole? |
| 20:03.29 | languish | jasta, all I want to know about your app is... |
| 20:03.32 | jasta | morrildl: yes, icons throughout the app. |
| 20:03.32 | languish | ... can it cook? I mean.. really well? When I come home after work, will it have a nice variety of mouth watering dishes waiting for me to consume? |
| 20:03.55 | morrildl | jasta: they will be covered under Apache 2.0, which should generally be a superset of CC |
| 20:03.59 | jasta | Neverender1: hmm? |
| 20:04.00 | morrildl | jasta: meaning, more permissive |
| 20:04.11 | Neverender1 | jasta: about the equalizer |
| 20:04.23 | jasta | morrildl: excellent. i have taken liberally from the artwork in android which i think is much better than having none :) |
| 20:04.23 | Neverender1 | jasta: five is great btw |
| 20:04.52 | jasta | Neverender1: ahh, Android doesn't expose enough to create or control an equalizer |
| 20:04.59 | jasta | or doing things like crossfading |
| 20:05.32 | jasta | actually, android exposes basically only what you see in the MediaPlayer and AudioManager interfaces. |
| 20:06.10 | bert0 | I can see how skins are not practical for your project. how about being able to control the colors of the foreground and backgroud? |
| 20:06.26 | jasta | bert0: perhaps, but certainly not for a 1.0 release |
| 20:06.32 | Neverender1 | well as it is, listening to music isnt very fun for me on my g1 |
| 20:06.39 | Neverender1 | highs are too.. high |
| 20:07.07 | bert0 | There are no high end mini usb headphones are there? |
| 20:07.10 | jasta | i have been happy with the output power of the G1. i merely set the music player volume to maximum and use my stereos equalizer |
| 20:08.02 | Neverender1 | well my headphones didnt come with an equalizer :) |
| 20:08.02 | jasta | i have a brand new stereo in my car (which i bought in response to getting the G1 and thus my app) and i hooked it up to my extremely high end system at my house and it sounded great |
| 20:08.13 | jasta | even though i had to use my analog to digital convertor to hook it into my system at home |
| 20:08.33 | jasta | Neverender1: oh, well, headphones aren't going to sound proper anyway :) |
| 20:08.54 | jasta | you're asking a mobile phone to be your amp in that case, and you're surprised when it sucks at it :) |
| 20:09.26 | jasta | still, it would be nice to have some control over this, i just dont think that the driver even supports it |
| 20:10.18 | jasta | morrildl: do you have any suggestions on how to handle visual feedback of "buffering"? |
| 20:10.24 | Neverender1 | jasta: true. these are pretty crappy headphones anyway |
| 20:10.24 | jasta | perhaps i should look at the imeem app |
| 20:11.03 | jasta | morrildl: because of the mediaplayer's deficiencies, my app currently just shows a SeekBar with secondary progress indicating download progress and primary playback position |
| 20:11.11 | androoid | I signed up for api key for mapview and I have the persmissions in manifest, etc.... but when I load the mapview it is still empty.. |
| 20:11.26 | jasta | but for the initial buffering, it takes sometimes a couple seconds before you can even see the seocndary progress moving behind the thumb |
| 20:11.39 | jasta | i can imagine users new to five getting frustrated by this lack of feedback |
| 20:12.04 | morrildl | jasta: why is it called Five anyway? |
| 20:12.22 | jasta | i thought about kind of fading out the entire player UI saying "buffering..." when it first opens and the song is not in cache. that effect would disappear when onPrepared is called... |
| 20:12.26 | jasta | what do you think? |
| 20:13.21 | jasta | morrildl: http://www.mopo.ca/uploaded_images/johnny-5-729691.jpg |
| 20:13.22 | jasta | :) |
| 20:14.14 | morrildl | ahh yes I now dimly remember hearing about that previously |
| 20:14.22 | morrildl | I still say Wall-E ripped off Johnny Five so hard |
| 20:16.01 | vol | oh cmon |
| 20:16.05 | vol | the entire MOVIE was an homage |
| 20:16.22 | vol | I mean he made the apple bootup sound |
| 20:16.28 | benley | >>>>DDDDONGGGG<<<< |
| 20:16.37 | benley | <3 that sound when used as homage |
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| 20:19.51 | phillijw | homoage |
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| 20:23.05 | romainguy_ | tauno: what were the complaints you wanted to voice ealier? |
| 20:23.19 | languish | ut oh |
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| 20:27.27 | mikey| | *cough* |
| 20:27.53 | languish | lozenge? |
| 20:28.11 | languish | honey & lemon flavored. they're good. |
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| 20:32.50 | tripps | so any reason why updates for market applications aren't shown on the my downloads or individual application screens? I have to go to the market and compare version #'s manually. seems kinda clunky IMO. |
| 20:33.29 | jasta | tripps: versioning is not currently supported in the market. we all sincerely hope it is coming SOON :) |
| 20:34.05 | mikey| | is quite surprised there is no irc app for android yet |
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| 20:34.47 | tripps | jasta, yeah it would be very cool for sure. of course notifications of when updates are available would be cool too. just kinda surprised a simple version check "update available" wasn't shown when looking at my downloads. |
| 20:34.50 | Disconnect | mikey|: connectbot + irssi :) |
| 20:34.55 | languish | mikey|, it's a beta, http://countercultured.net/ircbeta.apk |
| 20:35.07 | languish | or what Disconnect said |
| 20:35.18 | languish | (no it's not my beta) |
| 20:35.33 | languish | I'm waiting for michaelnovakjr's client |
| 20:36.16 | Disconnect | http://www.linkedin.com/groupAnswers?viewQuestionAndAnswers=&gid=69893&discussionID=490348&sik=1226954133695&trk=ug_qa_q&goback=.ana_69893_1226954133695_1 hmm. wonder how goog feels about this. (sorry for the ugly linkedin url) |
| 20:36.28 | Disconnect | http://androidin.org/?p=35 better |
| 20:36.38 | michaelnovakjr | raises his eyebrow |
| 20:36.51 | romainguy_ | Disconnect: what's wrong with the JavaPosse? |
| 20:36.54 | languish | ^_^ |
| 20:37.42 | jasta | mikey|: hiya :) |
| 20:37.48 | Disconnect | romainguy_: ? |
| 20:37.56 | romainguy_ | Disconnect: your link, it just goes to the JavaPosse group |
| 20:38.02 | Disconnect | oh. bad link then. |
| 20:38.14 | Disconnect | the group id must be profile-specific. annoying. |
| 20:38.23 | mikey| | heh, that app started an register/quit loop on the server :s |
| 20:38.41 | Disconnect | the second link works. ("Androidin Organization". that seems a lot worse than and* or *droid. and its full of their IP (marketplace, gmail, gmaps..) .. and its for reflashing hacked phones.) |
| 20:38.58 | mikey| | languish, Disconnect, i'm writing my own irc app for android, was testing it here a few mins ago |
| 20:39.21 | michaelnovakjr | mikey|: yea me too |
| 20:39.32 | Disconnect | mikey|: yah i want, if it doesn't destroy battery and works with dircproxy |
| 20:39.51 | michaelnovakjr | i wrote a lighter irc library to not kill battery :) |
| 20:39.59 | romainguy_ | Disconnect: all I can say is they do a crappy job, long strings are clipped: http://androidin.org/wp-content/uploads/2008/11/dsc01666.jpg :)) |
| 20:40.05 | Disconnect | lol |
| 20:40.15 | mikey| | it hasnt actually got that far yet, the parser is a bit dodgy, as is the window management |
| 20:40.36 | michaelnovakjr | mine will be ready this week |
| 20:40.45 | mikey| | nice |
| 20:41.15 | mikey| | how to manage channels was a headache for me. |
| 20:41.27 | michaelnovakjr | was actually pretty easy :) |
| 20:41.32 | mikey| | tried tabs, was difficult to work with, then I moved to ViewFlipper. |
| 20:41.37 | mikey| | what did you use? |
| 20:41.59 | michaelnovakjr | conversation list..... i don't have it updating multiple views |
| 20:42.19 | mikey| | i use viewflipper to set up windows for each chan/priv msg window |
| 20:42.21 | michaelnovakjr | it only updates the current view UI.... when the user switches it updates with the other messages |
| 20:42.32 | mikey| | it directs messages to each window |
| 20:42.43 | mikey| | so it's always being updated |
| 20:42.47 | unix_lappy | michaelnovakjr: url to screenshots? |
| 20:42.56 | michaelnovakjr | yea, i didn't do that.... i don't want to be updating the ui when the user doesn't have it active |
| 20:43.07 | michaelnovakjr | unix_lappy: i'll have all that setup towards the end of the week |
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| 20:44.40 | vol | Sigh. SIGSTOP in __futex_wait. bt shows that as frame 0, frame 1 as pthread_cond_timedwait. Cannot actually see where this happened, because the program has already unloaded. |
| 20:44.49 | vol | reads up on multithreaded debugging |
| 20:45.52 | andyross | SIGSTOP is only ever delivered from other processes (typically a shell parent) AFAIK. It's not a fault from within the application, nor is it typically fatal. |
| 20:46.27 | andyross | Or rather: nor is it ever fatal -- it's one of the two signals you can't register a handler for. |
| 20:49.25 | vol | well, that's as much info as I'm getting. |
| 20:49.36 | Disconnect | sigstop might have come from the platform.. |
| 20:49.41 | vol | #0 __futex_wait ( ) at bionic/libc/arch-arm/bionic/atomics_arm.S:150 |
| 20:49.41 | vol | #1 0xafe0e500 in pthread_cond_timedwait (cond=0x240356, mutex=Cannot access memory at address 0xbec78544) at bionic/libc/bionic/pthread.c:1151 |
| 20:49.44 | vol | Cannot access memory at address 0xbec78564 |
| 20:49.53 | fadden | vol: "info threads" |
| 20:49.54 | vol | there's the stacktrace (hooray) |
| 20:50.09 | vol | 1 thread, at __futex_wait |
| 20:50.13 | vol | it's already freed everything else |
| 20:50.19 | vol | it doesn't even show the dalvik process running |
| 20:50.25 | vol | (well, that one in particular) |
| 20:50.40 | vol | I tried breaking on pthread_cond_timedwait, but it just blew past... : ( |
| 20:51.08 | fadden | That's strange. I thought the binder worker threads were marked as "daemon", which means they should still be sitting around. |
| 20:51.18 | fadden | But if "ps" doesn't show it, then your debugging a ghost. |
| 20:51.24 | fadden | s/your/you're/ |
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| 20:51.46 | Disconnect | jesus that thing is annoying |
| 20:51.55 | fadden | <PROTECTED> |
| 20:52.05 | Disconnect | s/that thing/infobot/ |
| 20:52.12 | Disconnect | s/infobot/shut up already/ |
| 20:52.25 | fadden | Disconnect: it doesn't modify your modified version |
| 20:52.29 | Disconnect | yah |
| 20:52.36 | Disconnect | s/yah/shut up already/ |
| 20:52.45 | KNY | haha |
| 20:55.30 | tripps | jasta, looks like OI update is a market app that finds updates for installed apps. cool! |
| 20:56.58 | vol | ... yeah |
| 20:57.03 | vol | anyway, I'm debugging a ghost |
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| 20:57.45 | vol | any idea why the breakpoint didn't get stopped on? If the library isn't compiled with debugging info, I should still be able to break there, right? |
| 20:58.09 | fadden | The ways of the wily gdb are subtle and mysterious. |
| 20:58.23 | fadden | Which is a long way of saying "I dunno". |
| 20:58.35 | fadden | Was there some event you wanted to stop on? |
| 21:08.37 | andyross | vol: Granted you sometimes encounter weird edge cases when doing embedded work. That said, in my experience, almost 100% of the time the answer to questions like "Why didn't the breakpoint trigger?" is "Because the code didn't actually execute.". Take a look at your assumptions and maybe add some logging. |
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| 21:19.03 | KNY | if my app uses OI Update and someone doesn't have it installed, it won't cause problems, right? |
| 21:19.14 | KNY | it just would not get auto-updates? |
| 21:19.41 | Disconnect | it might catch fire |
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| 21:20.27 | Disconnect | since its an extra line in the manifest. they overloaded the magic perm.BRICK entry, so if its installed it checks for updaets, but if its not installed it bricks the device. brilliant way to drive installations, actually.. |
| 21:20.27 | vol | andyross: sigh, you're probably right. |
| 21:20.30 | vol | thanks |
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| 21:21.10 | KNY | Disconnect, good, should teach those stupid users a lesson. |
| 21:21.51 | vol | :< |
| 21:21.52 | vol | like me |
| 21:21.59 | vol | installed something with the BRICK permission to see what it did |
| 21:22.05 | vol | did not brick his phone |
| 21:23.10 | KNY | what does it do? |
| 21:24.48 | vol | demanded every single permission it could possibly find |
| 21:24.56 | vol | which I didn't realize at first because I did adb install stupidly |
| 21:25.01 | Disconnect | heh |
| 21:25.05 | vol | I did an install via browser later |
| 21:25.09 | vol | which pointed that out |
| 21:25.10 | Disconnect | yah adb should give a way to prompt :( |
| 21:25.16 | vol | which convinced me that having it on there may not be smart |
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| 21:26.05 | Disconnect | has anyone grepped out the code to see what it does (if anything)? |
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| 21:30.15 | androoid | can someone help me with mapview |
| 21:30.29 | androoid | I signed up for api key for mapview and I have the persmissions in manifest, etc.... but when I load the mapview it is still empty.. |
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| 21:34.15 | ttuttle | WTF?! |
| 21:34.23 | ttuttle | My phone won't let me call anyone. |
| 21:35.18 | jmo | ttuttle: pay your phone bill |
| 21:35.29 | ttuttle | jmo: :P |
| 21:35.35 | fadden | Can you call your phone? |
| 21:35.52 | vol | ttuttle: who did you piss off at T-Mobile? |
| 21:36.01 | vol | can you call 611? :P |
| 21:36.07 | ttuttle | Oh, I'm sorry... |
| 21:36.18 | ttuttle | It just decided to wait a few minutes before placing the call. |
| 21:36.25 | ttuttle | thinks the Intent got stuck somewhere in the series of tubes. |
| 21:36.37 | vol | you needed to send the lotto ball to flush it |
| 21:36.45 | ttuttle | vol: Nobody... maybe someone at AT&T though ;) |
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| 21:43.37 | androoid | oooh the debug key works |
| 21:44.08 | androoid | if i just change the key to my release key, then it will work? |
| 21:44.17 | andyross | There's a debug ... key? And here I've been staring at code all day. |
| 21:44.27 | andyross | Oh, that kind of key :) |
| 21:45.42 | androoid | i was banging my head against the wall for the last 3 hours on something so basic |
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| 21:57.49 | falstaff_ | can i start an activity where the starting activity really waits for the end of the other? |
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| 21:59.17 | vol | falstaff_: as opposed to |
| 22:01.00 | falstaff_ | when i call startActivityForResult in onCreate, he goes through onCreate frist, then through onResume, and then starts the activity |
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| 22:01.29 | falstaff_ | but i would like he starts the activity and when it is finished, he resumes in onCreate (like normal method call...) |
| 22:01.54 | vol | So when you call Activity B with activity A |
| 22:02.01 | vol | activity B is calling onCreate then onResume |
| 22:02.05 | vol | right? |
| 22:02.13 | vol | or is Activity A starting another instance of Activity A? |
| 22:02.26 | vol | OOH, I see what you mean |
| 22:02.36 | vol | you want activity A to call onCreate, then onResume, THEN call startActivityForResult |
| 22:03.00 | vol | then you're going to have to do that. Give it a reason to call startActivityForResult after onResume finishes |
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| 22:04.26 | falstaff_ | I want to call Activity B out of onCreate of Activity A |
| 22:05.19 | falstaff_ | But when i call startActivityForResult(... ActivityB..) he first go throu the rest of onCreate of activity a, then through onRestart of Activity A, and then he starts activity b |
| 22:05.43 | romainguy_ | because startActivityForResult() is not a synchronous call |
| 22:06.11 | falstaff_ | yes, but is there a way to start an activity synchronous? |
| 22:06.16 | romainguy_ | no |
| 22:06.23 | falstaff_ | hm ok |
| 22:06.29 | romainguy_ | the real question is why are you starting another activity in onCreate()? |
| 22:06.42 | falstaff_ | Its about showing the settings activity if there are no settings defined... |
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| 22:08.09 | falstaff_ | onCreate of the main activity is the very first method which is called in my app right? |
| 22:09.27 | jasta | falstaff_: possibly, not definitely. |
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| 22:09.36 | jasta | for instance, a broadcastreceiver might fire first |
| 22:09.41 | jasta | or your service might start first or whatever |
| 22:10.01 | jasta | in other words, do not put app-level initialization code in any activity's onCreate. create an Application class for that. |
| 22:10.12 | jasta | see packages/apps/Email for an example. |
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| 22:14.12 | mikey| | jasta: are all the default android apps written in java using the API? |
| 22:15.09 | romainguy_ | mikey|: yes |
| 22:15.18 | mikey| | nice |
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| 22:15.26 | vol | not to say they don't have a little help in some places |
| 22:15.44 | vol | *cough libwebcore cough* |
| 22:15.57 | romainguy_ | vol: and that's why you have WebView... :) |
| 22:16.06 | vol | :3 |
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| 22:32.09 | RyeBrye | is the speech recognition a private API? |
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| 22:41.02 | RyeBrye | interesting. Can any app register an "android_secret_code" ? |
| 22:43.36 | romainguy_ | yes |
| 22:43.48 | romainguy_ | that lets you intercept *#*#CODE#*#* numbers from the dialer |
| 22:44.15 | RyeBrye | Yeah, the practicality of that is questionable - but I suppose I could find a cool way to use it and make my friends think I'm hacking into the network or something nutty ;) |
| 22:44.43 | mikey| | secret code? |
| 22:45.04 | RyeBrye | it's in the manifest for some apps - like *#*#INFO*#*# will get your phone info screen |
| 22:45.17 | RyeBrye | (You set it as the digits, not the alpha chars) |
| 22:45.21 | mikey| | oh i see |
| 22:45.38 | mikey| | link me to the doc please |
| 22:46.42 | RyeBrye | mikey| - if it's a "secret code" how horribly unappropriate would it be to have documentation about it? |
| 22:46.44 | RyeBrye | ;) |
| 22:46.50 | mikey| | heh |
| 22:47.12 | mikey| | at least a link to an example manifest in the repo |
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| 22:49.41 | SplasPood | Heh, so has anyone yet developed an IM client and a twitter client that don't suck? |
| 22:49.56 | RyeBrye | I think twitdroid is ok |
| 22:50.01 | `vip | Twidroid is ok |
| 22:50.03 | SplasPood | twidroid ya mean? |
| 22:50.04 | `vip | and Trak is ok |
| 22:50.06 | SplasPood | yea its the best I found |
| 22:50.09 | SplasPood | still crashes like woah |
| 22:50.15 | `vip | www.trak.fr |
| 22:50.21 | SplasPood | seems to be related to flaky network coverage at the time it tries to do something |
| 22:51.09 | RyeBrye | If google would release the specs on how to send the audio to the server and how to get a redirect back for the search results page, I would think it would take about 15 seconds to write that "Voice search" app on android |
| 22:52.06 | danfuzz | blort |
| 22:52.23 | RyeBrye | infobot blort |
| 22:52.57 | danfuzz | is not a bot |
| 22:53.02 | Neverender1 | no blorting |
| 22:53.10 | danfuzz | says who? |
| 22:53.11 | RyeBrye | I know you arent :) I was wanting infobot to tell me what blort meants :) |
| 22:53.18 | RyeBrye | s/meants/means/ |
| 22:53.28 | Neverender1 | says me |
| 22:53.30 | RyeBrye | infobot thanks, where were you when I needed you? |
| 22:53.30 | infobot | RyeBrye: de rien |
| 22:53.38 | danfuzz | hrmph |
| 22:54.20 | danfuzz | generally uses it as an otherwise contentless greeting, in the context of irc |
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| 22:54.52 | Neverender1 | i noticed that |
| 22:54.54 | Neverender1 | blort |
| 22:55.04 | RyeBrye | ah |
| 22:55.08 | RyeBrye | blort |
| 22:55.37 | danfuzz | it's also my favorite quasi-standard metasyntactic variable |
| 22:55.39 | RyeBrye | infobot "AAAAAAACEEEEIIIIDNOOOOO OUUUUYDsaaaaaaaceeeeiiiidnooooo ouuuuydy" |
| 22:56.31 | danfuzz | my life will be complete if someday it eclipses foo and bar in popularity |
| 22:56.33 | RyeBrye | does that translate to "I said no you ..." ? |
| 22:57.03 | danfuzz | but enough about me |
| 22:57.25 | falstaff_ | Hello, i get an exception: java.lang.IllegalArgumentException: View not attached to window manager |
| 22:57.39 | blau | im working on todolist support, that doesnt suck, for google calendnar |
| 22:57.48 | falstaff_ | this happens when i change from landscape to portrait or visa verca while loading an activity |
| 22:57.49 | fadden | cd dalvik ; find . -type f | xargs grep -i blort | wc -l |
| 22:57.56 | fadden | --> 1590 |
| 22:58.03 | falstaff_ | any idea? |
| 22:58.03 | danfuzz | hehe |
| 22:58.09 | romainguy_ | falstaff_: you're probably doing something really bad with your views :) |
| 22:58.13 | danfuzz | mostly in test code, right? |
| 22:58.24 | RyeBrye | is sad that there is no hidden message in line 601 of RecognizerEngine.java - it really is just a mapping of latin-1 to ascii :( |
| 22:58.25 | fadden | Almost entirely. |
| 22:58.34 | falstaff_ | that could be :-) |
| 22:59.17 | danfuzz | so, hoew many foos and bars, by comparison? |
| 22:59.26 | danfuzz | s/hoew/how/ |
| 22:59.46 | falstaff_ | what i do is setcontentview inside oncreate and then run a thread in oncreate too. when i change landscape to protrait while the thread was running, the exception happens |
| 23:00.07 | fadden | A quick check suggests "blort" wins. |
| 23:00.16 | blau | the views all die and get recreated whe you change modes |
| 23:00.21 | blau | or something to that effect |
| 23:00.30 | blau | so you have to update the view that the thread points too |
| 23:00.32 | danfuzz | how about in android code as a whole? |
| 23:01.07 | fadden | I'll leave that as an exercise for the reader. :-) |
| 23:01.11 | romainguy_ | falstaff_: apparently your thread is touching Views which is a very very bad thing to do |
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| 23:01.15 | danfuzz | durn |
| 23:01.22 | danfuzz | was feeling lazy |
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| 23:01.31 | romainguy_ | falstaff_: so 1. this thread should not interact with Views directly 2. this thread should probably be destroy in onDestroy() |
| 23:01.40 | falstaff_ | thread does this; |
| 23:01.42 | falstaff_ | runOnUiThread(new Runnable(){ |
| 23:01.42 | falstaff_ | // Sets Album data to the UI... |
| 23:01.42 | falstaff_ | public void run() { |
| 23:01.42 | falstaff_ | ArrayAdapter<String> artistsAdapter = new ArrayAdapter<String>(ArtistsActivity.this, android.R.layout.simple_list_item_1, items); |
| 23:01.42 | falstaff_ | setListAdapter(artistsAdapter); |
| 23:01.44 | falstaff_ | } |
| 23:01.46 | falstaff_ | }); |
| 23:02.10 | KNY | whoa |
| 23:02.13 | KNY | pastebin.ca, mate |
| 23:02.20 | falstaff_ | yeah i know |
| 23:02.27 | sfuentes | tisk, tisk |
| 23:02.30 | falstaff_ | 8 lines was on the edge :-) |
| 23:03.08 | KNY | if it's more than two, make a pastebin |
| 23:03.20 | falstaff_ | KNY: ok, next time... |
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| 23:03.44 | falstaff_ | as you can see, I just call setListAdapter... but this is Activity related, isn't it? |
| 23:04.45 | vol | ugh, pastebin.ca |
| 23:04.46 | vol | slow city |
| 23:04.48 | vol | just pastebin.com :P |
| 23:04.51 | vol | or privatepaste, even |
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| 23:05.25 | falstaff_ | http://pastebin.ca/1259805 |
| 23:05.30 | falstaff_ | the whole method... any idea? |
| 23:13.14 | romainguy_ | yes |
| 23:13.18 | romainguy_ | destroy the thread in onDestroy |
| 23:13.25 | romainguy_ | or at least set a flag asking it to not touch the UI anymore |
| 23:20.09 | falstaff_ | onDestroy of the activity? |
| 23:20.31 | falstaff_ | the thread is only valid inside oncreate |
| 23:21.00 | falstaff_ | and the method run ends, the thread should end, or is this wrong? |
| 23:21.17 | sfuentes | so if i had a mod rc30 does that mean i have to reflash my phone everytime a new mod update is released? |
| 23:23.14 | Neverender1 | yes sir |
| 23:24.08 | RyeBrye | sfuentes - who knows how often that will be though |
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| 23:26.21 | falstaff_ | ok i see the prblem |
| 23:26.29 | falstaff_ | its when i dismiss the dialog |
| 23:26.51 | falstaff_ | but i've no idea how to solve that |
| 23:26.57 | falstaff_ | i've gona look at that tomorrow |
| 23:26.58 | falstaff_ | cya |
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| 23:28.42 | RyeBrye | Where in the source should I look to understand how low level events get translated and sent off to the normal apps? |
| 23:28.50 | RyeBrye | i.e. keypresses, screen touches... etc |
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| 23:29.45 | romainguy_ | RyeBrye: WindowManager and ViewRoot |
| 23:29.55 | RyeBrye | thanks |
| 23:29.57 | romainguy_ | under that, I don't know |
| 23:30.21 | RyeBrye | romainguy_ - so those are the start in java land - right? |
| 23:30.27 | romainguy_ | correct |
| 23:31.00 | RyeBrye | imagines a secret depot like that train station those Harry potter kids take to get to Hogwarts where events go from the system into API land |
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| 23:32.53 | unix_lappy | you know your a father of little un's when ^^ |
| 23:33.13 | blau | hi |
| 23:33.14 | RyeBrye | :) |
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| 23:37.57 | synalx | greetings all |
| 23:38.13 | DJTachyon_ | o/ |
| 23:38.53 | synalx | whats up? |
| 23:39.13 | synalx | hmm connectbot and irssi are fighting |
| 23:39.44 | synalx | my terminal on my desktop does this too though, when i'm running through screen |
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| 23:41.15 | sfuentes | synalx: there is no irc client for android, right? |
| 23:41.44 | synalx | none currently. i am ssh'd to my linux server |
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| 23:45.15 | blau | theres a few in betas |
| 23:45.31 | *** part/#android dd94300 (n=fdd001@host-208-68-238-61.biznesshosting.net) |
| 23:45.33 | synalx | nothing in the market though |
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| 23:47.41 | synalx | so is there an eta on bluetooth in the sdk yet? |
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| 23:57.34 | an_dev1 | can anybody tell me what type of image files android supports |
| 23:58.19 | andyross | png, jpeg and gif definitely. Also there's a parser for a custom "rle565" format in the bootloader, but that's not exactly "support" I guess. |
| 23:59.16 | an_dev1 | thanks andyross |
| 23:59.27 | an_dev1 | i just wanted to make sure for the gif |
| 23:59.38 | an_dev1 | thanks for your response |
| 23:59.46 | andyross | It's hard to ship something called a browser if it can't read gifs. :) |
