| 00:00.41 | Fnord^ | nice |
| 00:01.19 | Fnord^ | no idea where it gets the password from |
| 00:01.27 | alansj | hey dream_kill, what's the secret to the boot logo? |
| 00:02.34 | DarkriftX | full rc30 added to: http://android-dls.com/wiki/index.php?title=OTA_Updates |
| 00:02.42 | Damm | DarkriftX, yeah... wish that was there earlier |
| 00:02.43 | Damm | :( |
| 00:02.45 | DarkriftX | if anyone sees any errors or soemthing missing, please let me know |
| 00:02.47 | Damm | woulda saved me some $$ |
| 00:02.55 | DarkriftX | i just found out about it 5 mins ago |
| 00:03.04 | Damm | DarkriftX, when I did prolly |
| 00:03.09 | DarkriftX | not having a g1 makes it hard for me to keep up with everything and keep everthing updated |
| 00:03.29 | saurik | DarkriftX: no, it actually deletes telnetd |
| 00:03.33 | saurik | (responding to your wiki post) |
| 00:03.38 | Damm | oh that's interesting, ro.ril.hsxpa=1? |
| 00:03.42 | *** join/#android lethalcode (n=walker@pennmush.org) |
| 00:03.44 | DarkriftX | really saurik |
| 00:03.49 | Damm | that means you can shutoff HSUPA/DPA from the firmware? |
| 00:03.56 | DarkriftX | i was told the script deletes it, but that its still there after reboot |
| 00:04.00 | Damm | and it's a class 10 gprs... I figured that much. |
| 00:04.11 | DarkriftX | can you confirm? or was it telnet vs telnetd and i missed it |
| 00:04.15 | Damm | that answers the data + voice question |
| 00:04.18 | spikebike | maybe it deletes it and installs a new one? |
| 00:04.24 | DarkriftX | lol,that would be funny as hell |
| 00:04.24 | saurik | DarkriftX: if that's true then the script is broken; but I can tell you that the full rc30 restore definitely no longer has the file at all |
| 00:04.30 | spikebike | 2 folks that upgraded last night reported telnetd was sitll htere |
| 00:04.32 | DarkriftX | lets delete that!!! (then add a new one on accident) |
| 00:04.55 | alansj | why did they push out an rc30 full update? |
| 00:05.10 | spikebike | because some folks never made it to rc19 |
| 00:05.12 | spikebike | er rc29 |
| 00:05.15 | saurik | alans: for us users who are still using rc19 |
| 00:05.15 | alansj | ah |
| 00:05.17 | spikebike | like my 2nd phone |
| 00:05.19 | Damm | DarkriftX, telnetd is gone. |
| 00:05.28 | DarkriftX | on rc30 patch or rc30 full? |
| 00:05.31 | Damm | spikebike, right, because if they do the patch RC30, it doesn't format system |
| 00:05.36 | Damm | DarkriftX, full |
| 00:05.37 | alansj | heh, spikebike did you brick or just accidentally upgrade to rc30? |
| 00:05.39 | Damm | patch failed me. |
| 00:05.43 | DarkriftX | anyone got rc30 patch? |
| 00:05.50 | Damm | alansj, I bricked on RC30 |
| 00:05.50 | spikebike | I have one phone at rc19 and one at rc29 |
| 00:05.52 | alansj | I dled it earlier |
| 00:06.00 | alansj | (rc30 patch) |
| 00:06.00 | Damm | on the patch rc30 |
| 00:06.04 | Damm | full rc30 worked just fine |
| 00:06.12 | DarkriftX | anyone who has rc30 patch (the 4mb one) tell me if you still have telnetd file in /system/bin |
| 00:06.17 | Damm | http://pastie.org/private/6c93yqvxx5qcplcthmslqq ... that's what I got when I did the rc30 4mb patch. |
| 00:06.24 | Damm | and it was toast. |
| 00:06.25 | lethalcode | launches a new app on Market. Anybody who regularly watches movies on the G1 interested in testing it? :D. |
| 00:06.36 | alansj | DarkriftX: ah, I have the update file but did not apply it. |
| 00:06.42 | spikebike | g1er, and er somebody I can't remember did the batch trying to sneak suid files past the rc30 upgrade |
| 00:06.48 | lethalcode | DarkriftX: telnetd still exists, but is no longer a root hole. |
| 00:06.57 | saurik | Fnord^: that's the su from the android 'extra' commands as distributed by google, it doesn't need to get a password form anywhere, it just always grants access |
| 00:07.00 | DarkriftX | ok, thats what i thought |
| 00:07.00 | lethalcode | In fact, weren't you here last night when I did that? ;). |
| 00:07.07 | Fnord^ | oh |
| 00:07.12 | digitalspaghetti | hrmm, that android guy didn;t last long, his blogs down already |
| 00:07.12 | DarkriftX | their delete telnet line in the script must have been fookered |
| 00:07.16 | Fnord^ | so basically a suid shell |
| 00:07.23 | spikebike | or it was a delete and recreate |
| 00:07.29 | DarkriftX | yeah |
| 00:07.33 | saurik | Fnord^: pretty much, it just does setuid/setgid/execlp(sh) |
| 00:07.34 | DarkriftX | thats probably more possible spikebike |
| 00:07.47 | saurik | it definitely doesn't recreate it as the file isn't in the thing anymore |
| 00:07.49 | DarkriftX | they prob forgot to remove it from the system image lol |
| 00:07.55 | saurik | it might be that they only think they have a delete command and they don't |
| 00:08.00 | DarkriftX | saurik, we mean in the patch version |
| 00:08.04 | *** join/#android andyross (n=andy@static-71-245-107-194.ptldor.fios.verizon.net) |
| 00:08.05 | saurik | DarkriftX: so do I |
| 00:08.08 | DarkriftX | oh |
| 00:08.19 | saurik | it only comes with a single file: recovery.img |
| 00:08.22 | Fnord^ | delete command would be in recovery.img:/sbin/recovery |
| 00:08.23 | DarkriftX | lots are reporting it still exists in rc30 patch but not full rc30 |
| 00:08.24 | saurik | all other files in system are modified by patches |
| 00:08.42 | saurik | again, they probably got something wrong with their delete command |
| 00:09.39 | saurik | damm: as it is doing an applypatch that isn't the full rc30 |
| 00:09.48 | saurik | oh, sorry, you said "did the rc30 4mb patch" |
| 00:10.02 | saurik | (remembered damm saying he was going to try the rc30 full patch, and then saw another error url go by( |
| 00:10.40 | waldo_ | hey guys... anyone know if it's safe to keep my otacerts.zip and cacerts.bks file renamed to avoid the rc30 update? |
| 00:10.48 | DarkriftX | seems so waldo-g1 |
| 00:11.08 | spikebike | safe yes |
| 00:11.11 | waldo_ | DarkriftX: someone had said it could cause some problems w/ssl and other stuff. |
| 00:11.16 | spikebike | will still periodically download |
| 00:11.29 | spikebike | oh no need on the cacerts.bks that breaks ssl |
| 00:11.31 | waldo_ | I just want a stopgap so I don't hit rc30 while everyone's figuring this out |
| 00:11.41 | spikebike | just the ota file |
| 00:11.49 | spikebike | or airplane mode ;-) |
| 00:11.52 | waldo_ | I just followed http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=443328 |
| 00:12.06 | waldo_ | So I can rename cacerts.zip back and it won't be able to do the rc30 update? |
| 00:12.14 | DarkriftX | yes |
| 00:12.14 | spikebike | yes |
| 00:12.16 | DarkriftX | ota is what matters |
| 00:12.37 | spikebike | RyeBrye RyeBrye is offline |
| 00:12.38 | spikebike | Junior Member |
| 00:12.43 | spikebike | <PROTECTED> |
| 00:13.01 | spikebike | so yes, response #5 is right |
| 00:13.02 | waldo_ | okay... let me do that now |
| 00:13.13 | waldo_ | let me move it back |
| 00:13.52 | elad | whats the url for a list of all available apps on market? |
| 00:14.11 | spikebike | dunno |
| 00:15.32 | waldo_ | what is the deal with this recovery image. What is it used for and what is the replacement one about? |
| 00:16.34 | Fnord^ | boot.img on rc30 full - safe |
| 00:17.37 | waldo_ | where are all the binary files I'm running from the # prompt? |
| 00:17.41 | waldo_ | ie, ping etc |
| 00:17.45 | waldo_ | they're not in sbin |
| 00:17.49 | Fnord^ | system/bin |
| 00:17.52 | waldo_ | there is no bin or /usr.. |
| 00:17.52 | waldo_ | ah |
| 00:17.53 | waldo_ | thanks |
| 00:17.56 | alansj | Fnord^: what do you mean the boot.img is safe? |
| 00:18.08 | Fnord^ | alansj, no recursive permission resets or other naughtyness |
| 00:18.23 | Fnord^ | other than the usual reflash recovery.img on every boot thing |
| 00:18.46 | alansj | ah, so all the naughtyness is in the update script? |
| 00:18.50 | wayneward | ive move otacerts.zip should i have or not? |
| 00:18.57 | Fnord^ | yeah |
| 00:19.01 | waldo_ | so to be clear, moving otacerts.zip makes me good to go for now? |
| 00:19.09 | Fnord^ | and the existance of recovery.img in system |
| 00:19.14 | Fnord^ | waldo-g1, yep |
| 00:19.17 | waldo_ | fantastic |
| 00:19.44 | alansj | ohhh.. does the recovery.img in system/ get reflashed to mtd1 on every reboot? |
| 00:20.00 | *** join/#android loglaunch_ (n=chatzill@86-41-40-76-dynamic.b-ras2.dbn.dublin.eircom.net) |
| 00:20.15 | *** join/#android Laz (n=Laz1@28.184.119.70.cfl.res.rr.com) |
| 00:20.53 | Fnord^ | alansj, yup |
| 00:20.57 | alansj | I was wondering why it was in there. Why do you think they do that? |
| 00:21.00 | Fnord^ | it has since rc28 or below |
| 00:21.05 | Fnord^ | i dunno |
| 00:21.59 | Fnord^ | heh the bins in system/bin are the same as in rc29 |
| 00:22.56 | alansj | I wonder if JesusFreke's boot.img replaces the recovery.img inside of itself or if on reboot it's reverting mtd1 back to the stock version |
| 00:23.14 | spikebike | ya, seems like rc30 is a kernel boot parameter, tweak telnet, remove suid, and tweaks to a bunch of the java files |
| 00:26.06 | andyross | There's also a pretty big (376k) patch to libwebcore.so |
| 00:26.22 | digitalspaghetti | t-mobile us seem to be way ahead of t-mobile uk. We haven't even had rc29 yet |
| 00:26.23 | spikebike | ah, webkit tweak? |
| 00:26.36 | spikebike | digitalspaghetti: my 2nd phone is still at rc19 |
| 00:26.40 | DarkriftX | digitalspaghetti, tc4-tc7 is uk's latest |
| 00:26.59 | DarkriftX | uk version came out later, so fixes were done sooner and yo have less updates that are needed |
| 00:26.59 | andyross | More likely bugfix. I've seen the browser crash on a few occasions, dunno how common that is, but it's something that would probably be a high priority fix. |
| 00:27.08 | DarkriftX | erm |
| 00:27.16 | DarkriftX | uk's rc7 is = to rc29 us |
| 00:27.32 | digitalspaghetti | i've got TC5-RC7 |
| 00:27.36 | DarkriftX | yeah |
| 00:27.41 | DarkriftX | thats the same as rc29 for the us |
| 00:28.04 | wayneward | ive got tc5-rct aswell and got root :) |
| 00:28.05 | saurik | spikebike: I think the changes to the java files are almost entirely updated timestamps from a new build |
| 00:28.11 | DarkriftX | technically uk is ahead of us |
| 00:28.12 | digitalspaghetti | oh, well that was the release version here so i suppose we'll see rc30 in the next few days |
| 00:28.21 | DarkriftX | yours will prob not say rc30 |
| 00:28.27 | DarkriftX | will prob be like rc10 or something |
| 00:28.35 | DarkriftX | or rc8 |
| 00:29.03 | spikebike | saurik ah, lame, seems like silly just to include a bunch of files for new timestamps |
| 00:29.05 | wayneward | so will it try to install update but fail because i moved certs? |
| 00:29.25 | spikebike | yes |
| 00:29.35 | spikebike | assuming you mean otacers |
| 00:29.38 | spikebike | otacerts |
| 00:29.44 | wayneward | yes |
| 00:30.15 | DarkriftX | we need a page on what has been attempted to get root on rc30 so ppl can find out what not to try |
| 00:30.16 | digitalspaghetti | i hope a fix comes soon to install stuff on the sd card, i ran out of space yesterday :) |
| 00:30.25 | DarkriftX | ouch digitalspaghetti :S |
| 00:30.32 | DarkriftX | there is a root hack to fix that a little |
| 00:30.40 | DarkriftX | moves cache and other stuff to the sd card |
| 00:30.48 | DarkriftX | but once you update it would stop working |
| 00:30.52 | DarkriftX | and prob cause hell |
| 00:31.22 | digitalspaghetti | yea, i;ve decided not to hack about too much just now |
| 00:31.28 | digitalspaghetti | who knows what will change |
| 00:31.33 | DarkriftX | yeah :( |
| 00:34.07 | *** join/#android Adamant (n=Adamant@c-98-244-152-196.hsd1.ga.comcast.net) |
| 00:34.36 | wastrel | i applied the rc30 update |
| 00:34.37 | Fnord^ | ok, rc30 rixes made, update.zip signed...wish me luck |
| 00:34.43 | Fnord^ | wastrel, modded? |
| 00:34.45 | alansj | I wonder if its worth looking at the recovery bin for root opportunities |
| 00:34.49 | wastrel | no |
| 00:34.57 | Fnord^ | =[ |
| 00:35.24 | Fnord^ | brb, updating while smoking >.> |
| 00:36.10 | RyeBrye | Which files in the RC29 contain the vulnerabilities? the boot.img? |
| 00:36.22 | spikebike | one is just a boot parameter |
| 00:36.23 | RyeBrye | is that where the system console thing is set? |
| 00:36.36 | spikebike | console=null fixes it |
| 00:36.44 | spikebike | kernel parameter |
| 00:36.45 | RyeBrye | Right - but that is encapsulated in which file? |
| 00:36.53 | spikebike | umm |
| 00:37.43 | waldo_ | Fnord are you updating a modded rc30? |
| 00:39.34 | Fnord^ | well i tried. it failed initial versioncheck |
| 00:40.00 | Fnord^ | wonder why |
| 00:40.33 | DarkriftX | i made a page on what attempts to preserve root from rc29 to rc30, but its pretty bare right now |
| 00:40.58 | alansj | Fnord^: are you flashing directly or doing an update from sdcard? |
| 00:41.18 | Fnord^ | sdcard |
| 00:41.26 | waldo_ | Fnord^: you self-signed this? |
| 00:41.26 | Fnord^ | full update |
| 00:41.28 | Fnord^ | yup |
| 00:41.36 | Fnord^ | it didn't look like a signing error |
| 00:41.41 | Fnord^ | version check failed |
| 00:41.50 | waldo_ | version check of what |
| 00:41.51 | DarkriftX | edit the version check out of the update script lol |
| 00:42.01 | DarkriftX | 2nd or 3rd line if i remember correctly |
| 00:42.11 | waldo_ | what's it checking the version of? |
| 00:42.17 | DarkriftX | current RC |
| 00:42.19 | Fnord^ | gotta find what ro.build.description |
| 00:42.28 | Fnord^ | is in jk's recovery |
| 00:42.36 | Fnord^ | but yeah i suppose i could take it out |
| 00:42.54 | DarkriftX | would have to recreate the hash for that file thought, right? |
| 00:43.21 | Fnord^ | no, it's a version check |
| 00:45.10 | Fnord^ | ro.build.version.incremental=eng.jesusfreke.20081105.164210 |
| 00:45.24 | Fnord^ | ro.build.description=htc_dream-eng 1.0 TC3 eng.jesusfreke.20081105.164210 test-keys |
| 00:45.25 | Fnord^ | >< |
| 00:47.44 | *** part/#android ali1234 (n=al@robotfuzz.co.uk) |
| 00:49.12 | *** join/#android tweakt_ (n=mark@xpc.tweakt.net) |
| 00:55.40 | Fnord^ | trying again |
| 00:55.48 | dream_kill | send + menu + power off -> CTRL+ALT+DEL :D |
| 00:55.49 | Fnord^ | added his fingerprint |
| 00:57.30 | *** join/#android laxx (n=lazaro@28.184.119.70.cfl.res.rr.com) |
| 00:58.19 | Fnord^ | formatting system, copying files.. |
| 01:00.17 | Fnord^ | booting :D |
| 01:01.30 | Fnord^ | FUCK |
| 01:01.47 | spikebike | ? |
| 01:02.06 | `vip | whats the best scanner app ? |
| 01:02.09 | Fnord^ | rootshell is not 4755........ |
| 01:02.19 | Fnord^ | fuck >< |
| 01:02.53 | spikebike | ? |
| 01:02.55 | spikebike | oh does it do it during install/upgrade and boot? |
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| 01:03.41 | spikebike | did you change init.rd to add a suid shell? |
| 01:03.42 | Fnord^ | wtf |
| 01:03.42 | Fnord^ | wtfwtf wtf wtf |
| 01:03.43 | laxx | OMG |
| 01:04.07 | `vip | is the market down ? |
| 01:04.14 | Fnord^ | set_perm 0 2000 4755 SYSTEM:bin/rootshell |
| 01:04.14 | `vip | cant access it |
| 01:04.31 | spikebike | did you rename cacert? |
| 01:04.31 | Fnord^ | that should have been 04755? |
| 01:04.44 | dream_kill | yep |
| 01:04.56 | dream_kill | 04755 |
| 01:05.43 | spikebike | doh |
| 01:05.46 | Fnord^ | that makes absolutely no sense >< |
| 01:06.01 | saurik | it probably passes it through strtoul(, 0) |
| 01:06.06 | saurik | which means it needs the leading 0 to know it is octal |
| 01:06.12 | Fnord^ | UGH |
| 01:06.29 | Fnord^ | now i gotta return this and make sure the next one doesn't update |
| 01:06.37 | Laz | lol |
| 01:06.59 | spikebike | might look at ebay |
| 01:07.04 | spikebike | might even be able to turn a profit |
| 01:07.19 | Fnord^ | i'm still within the 14 day 'return or exchange' period |
| 01:07.44 | Laz | Fnord^: you didnt have the modified recovery files? |
| 01:07.45 | alansj | wait Fnord^ what happened? I got netsplit or something |
| 01:08.08 | Fnord^ | alansj, i used the wrong permission mask for my rootshell =[ |
| 01:08.15 | Fnord^ | but the update worked |
| 01:08.21 | Fnord^ | i just...don't have root.. |
| 01:08.22 | alansj | oh noes |
| 01:08.33 | Fnord^ | 04755 not 4755 |
| 01:08.36 | DarkriftX | Fnord^, if you return it, find something physical to bitch about so its not apparent why |
| 01:08.41 | spikebike | oh wait |
| 01:08.50 | spikebike | fnord you updated both images? |
| 01:08.58 | spikebike | recovery and the system image? |
| 01:08.59 | elad | Fnord, what color g1 do you have? |
| 01:09.22 | Fnord^ | WAIT |
| 01:09.23 | spikebike | Fnord^: so your keys are on the g1... right? |
| 01:09.25 | Fnord^ | I DID NOT :D |
| 01:09.36 | Fnord^ | redoes update! |
| 01:09.38 | alansj | wooo |
| 01:09.49 | spikebike | er did not what? |
| 01:09.53 | Laz | just go back to rc29 |
| 01:09.56 | alansj | don't reboot if the recovery.img is stock! |
| 01:10.02 | spikebike | why? |
| 01:10.14 | alansj | or is your own with bad perms! |
| 01:10.30 | alansj | because, according to Fnord, mtd1 gets overwritten with it on every reboot |
| 01:10.36 | *** join/#android krau_ (n=cktakaha@189.81.183.162) |
| 01:10.38 | Fnord^ | i updated the recovery image in the update.zip |
| 01:10.47 | raidfive | Is it possible to construct a Uri that when clicked in the webkit browser will launch your app with some associated data? |
| 01:10.54 | Fnord^ | elad: black one |
| 01:11.03 | alansj | to allow you to apply updates with your own signed files? |
| 01:11.13 | spikebike | fnord cool so you can keep updating |
| 01:11.13 | Fnord^ | yup |
| 01:11.24 | Fnord^ | second try's a charm? |
| 01:11.27 | spikebike | get it right this time ;-) |
| 01:11.47 | *** join/#android kslater (n=kslater@206.193.247.78.nauticom.net) |
| 01:12.09 | Fnord^ | :P |
| 01:15.01 | Fnord^ | brb tryin |
| 01:18.02 | DarkriftX | hopes for a non brick |
| 01:19.45 | Fnord^ | radio image writing |
| 01:20.31 | alansj | what's in the radio image? |
| 01:20.59 | andyross | No doubt that's a binary blob from qualcomm. |
| 01:21.21 | Fnord^ | woot! |
| 01:21.25 | Fnord^ | rc30, root |
| 01:21.33 | alansj | klap klap |
| 01:21.34 | andyross | Nice. |
| 01:22.46 | spikebike | kudos |
| 01:23.09 | waldo_ | fnord do a full write-up somewhere on what you did |
| 01:23.16 | waldo_ | from start to finish |
| 01:23.18 | waldo_ | & congrats |
| 01:23.37 | andyross | And maybe post the update.zip file you used. :) |
| 01:23.46 | alansj | this ^ |
| 01:24.16 | spikebike | diffs, and the keys you used would be ideal |
| 01:24.29 | *** join/#android kkojiband (n=chatzill@119.65.238.99) |
| 01:24.43 | Fnord^ | http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?p=2880846#post2880846 |
| 01:24.51 | Fnord^ | i'll upload to mega |
| 01:25.38 | spikebike | er fnort |
| 01:25.40 | spikebike | d |
| 01:25.46 | spikebike | After |
| 01:25.46 | spikebike | set_perm 0 2000 04755 SYSTEM:bin/rootshell |
| 01:25.47 | spikebike | add |
| 01:25.47 | spikebike | set_perm_recursive 0 2000 0755 0755 SYSTEM:bin |
| 01:25.55 | Fnord^ | uhm |
| 01:25.57 | spikebike | won't that 2nd statement undo the first? |
| 01:25.59 | Fnord^ | ...yeah typo |
| 01:26.16 | Fnord^ | fixed |
| 01:30.16 | alansj | Fnord^: your instructions say to replace system/recovery.img with the rc29 recovery.img, but ideally don't you want to also update the rc30 recovery.img and put that there instead? |
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| 01:31.24 | DarkriftX | Fnord^, i can host it on my wiki if you dont mind |
| 01:32.16 | Fnord^ | not the rc29 one |
| 01:32.25 | Fnord^ | jesusfrek's recovery |
| 01:32.46 | Fnord^ | and i see no need in updating to rc30's recovery |
| 01:33.08 | alansj | right, jesusfreke's is based on rc29 |
| 01:33.15 | Fnord^ | yah |
| 01:33.19 | DarkriftX | xda-devs is down for me |
| 01:33.26 | alansj | yeah, I dunno if anything is new, but ideally I suppose you want to keep updating it |
| 01:33.27 | Fnord^ | the only issue is...oops forgot to post that part |
| 01:33.31 | Fnord^ | the fingerprint issue |
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| 01:33.57 | laxx | the only thing in RC30 is the fix for root |
| 01:34.30 | Fnord^ | beh can't telnet |
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| 01:37.50 | andyross | laxx: no, there are modifications to a bunch of the application files, and a comparatively large patch to webkit. |
| 01:38.19 | Fnord^ | note: while adding glibc to the system saves space, it makes it a PAIN cuz /lib needs to be resymlinked after boot |
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| 01:49.04 | Fnord^ | ugh the default sh sucks |
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| 01:50.04 | gdsx | Fnord^: surprise! :o) |
| 01:51.02 | Fnord^ | yuh |
| 01:51.55 | alansj | I think we need an update that includes Term.apk and busybox. |
| 01:52.32 | Fnord^ | Heh yeah |
| 01:53.09 | Fnord^ | feh |
| 01:53.22 | Fnord^ | if [ ! -e /lib ]; then ...is all I want =[ |
| 01:53.53 | DarkriftX | Fnord^, are you atomiddryad? |
| 01:54.00 | Fnord^ | yup |
| 01:54.03 | DarkriftX | k |
| 01:54.23 | DarkriftX | are you still editing that page? |
| 01:54.47 | Fnord^ | nah, done. uploading stuff |
| 01:54.50 | DarkriftX | k |
| 01:57.12 | Laz | They need to note down changes in each update, make apps install in SDCARD... Its feels like android is being handled by kids ;( |
| 01:59.38 | alansj | Fnord^: any thoughts on why it's better to have a suid root su rather than getprop ro.secure? |
| 02:00.44 | DarkriftX | one thing Fnord^, "Resign with the utility provided in the above link" i dont see this link/utility |
| 02:00.45 | Fnord^ | alansj, the latter requires a custom boot and is less convenient? |
| 02:01.04 | Fnord^ | darkhorse, the util is included in the custom recovery image zip |
| 02:01.10 | DarkriftX | ahhh, ok |
| 02:01.25 | Fnord^ | http://www.megaupload.com/?d=9GB1F3VN |
| 02:02.40 | alansj | touche |
| 02:02.48 | gdsx | Laz: we're all kids at heart |
| 02:02.48 | DarkriftX | http://android-dls.com/wiki/index.php?title=Keeping_Root (did some editing, but mostly to point to files i already hosted and for wiki formatting). didnt change much of your text |
| 02:03.52 | gdsx | Laz: in seriousness, though, I would offer that you considerably underestimate how difficult it is to create an operating system. |
| 02:05.49 | raidfive | how do I have a link in the browser launch my application? |
| 02:06.51 | gdsx | raidfive: what sort of link? |
| 02:07.31 | Fnord^ | DarkriftX, feel free to edit whatever |
| 02:08.03 | romainguy__ | Laz: installing apps on the sdcard opens up a shitload of new issues |
| 02:08.50 | romainguy__ | (you know, what happens when the SD-card is mounted on your PC but an app is running from the sdcard? or what happens if the sdcard is removed? etc.) |
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| 02:10.07 | raidfive | gdsx: can't you craft a uri to open your application? like appname://blah |
| 02:10.07 | *** join/#android bmunger_ (n=bmunger@169.139.115.235) |
| 02:10.26 | romainguy__ | raidfive: you can |
| 02:10.34 | romainguy__ | you need your application to have a special intent-filter |
| 02:10.36 | gdsx | raidfive: I know that you use an IntentFilter with certain parameters. I'm not sure if the specific types of transports (http://, https://, etc) are hard-coded into the browser or not |
| 02:10.40 | romainguy__ | and register a scheme + host that works |
| 02:10.49 | romainguy__ | gdsx: you can choose your scheme |
| 02:11.01 | romainguy__ | for instance you could have an intent filter for myapp://blah |
| 02:11.11 | romainguy__ | but it's not a good idea to invent new schemes |
| 02:11.14 | romainguy__ | we try to avoid that |
| 02:11.16 | gdsx | romainguy__: oh, I know. I'm thinking of where it picks un-<anchor>ed linkes out from the text |
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| 02:11.25 | gdsx | that's hard-coded |
| 02:11.29 | romainguy__ | probably |
| 02:11.35 | DJTachyon | wow |
| 02:11.53 | DJTachyon | that console command thing is hilarious |
| 02:11.55 | raidfive | romainguy__: I currently have the following in my manifest http://pastie.org/310414 |
| 02:12.23 | romainguy__ | again, I'd advise you against using a custom scheme |
| 02:12.25 | raidfive | but hitting the url mwu:// from the browser doesn't seem to do anything |
| 02:12.29 | DJTachyon | romainguy: what revision of the firmware disables echoing keystrokes to the shell? |
| 02:12.42 | romainguy__ | DJTachyon: RC30 |
| 02:12.52 | DJTachyon | heh |
| 02:13.02 | cbeust_ | raidfive: Did you try to filter the action VIEW instead of ATTACH_DATA? |
| 02:13.03 | Fnord^ | aka the remote exploit |
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| 02:13.14 | DJTachyon | i still have RC19 |
| 02:13.20 | DJTachyon | just tried the reboot command .. haha |
| 02:13.24 | DJTachyon | good stuff :) |
| 02:13.27 | romainguy__ | Fnord^: it's not a remote exploit |
| 02:13.47 | Fnord^ | :P |
| 02:13.53 | DJTachyon | I'm assuming it's a "debug" feature |
| 02:13.54 | raidfive | cbeust_: not yet ... trying now |
| 02:14.04 | g1er | wow, active today. |
| 02:14.22 | languish | DJTachyon <swetland> the whole thing really was a small collection of bugs working together 1. no console=null kernel commandline caused init to find tty1 as default console 2. console switching code removed to avoid a deadlock caused the runtime to not switch away from tty1 3. telnetd (a test binary) accidentally left in the final "user" manifest |
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| 02:15.33 | raidfive | cbeust_: still nothing |
| 02:15.33 | raidfive | romainguy__: how else would you accomplish this task without a custom scheme? |
| 02:15.33 | cbeust_ | Take a look at the logcat and see what Intent the browser is firing |
| 02:15.33 | DJTachyon | languish: oh very interesting |
| 02:15.33 | g1er | so how do I add all that into RC101? heh |
| 02:15.56 | DJTachyon | i havent had time to work on the audio low-level api calls |
| 02:15.58 | DJTachyon | argh |
| 02:16.54 | DJTachyon | i blame red alert 3, fallout 3, VJ gigs, and remodeling my house :p |
| 02:16.56 | raidfive | cbeust_: Starting activity: Intent { action=android.intent.action.VIEW data=mwu://testintent?blah comp={com.android.browser/com.android.browser.BrowserActivity} } |
| 02:18.35 | DJTachyon | haha Go Go Bordello is going to be at Webster Hall near the end of december |
| 02:18.50 | languish | hmm |
| 02:19.26 | DJTachyon | they are supposed to be great fun |
| 02:19.51 | languish | I guess I |
| 02:19.56 | languish | will have to start wearin purple |
| 02:19.57 | languish | :| |
| 02:20.06 | DJTachyon | why for? |
| 02:20.14 | languish | it's a go go bordello song |
| 02:20.22 | DJTachyon | lol |
| 02:20.23 | languish | "gogol bordello |
| 02:21.25 | DJTachyon | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p_81l4DXlwM |
| 02:21.27 | DJTachyon | ;) |
| 02:21.40 | languish | lol yeah that's it |
| 02:22.07 | languish | go go bordello and gogol bordello != it seems lol |
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| 02:22.11 | DJTachyon | their genre is "Immigrant Punk" ? |
| 02:22.18 | languish | gypsy punk |
| 02:22.23 | DJTachyon | ah okay ;) |
| 02:22.26 | languish | heh |
| 02:23.23 | DJTachyon | well ... i think its time for some Fallout 3 ... I hurt from painting and moving crap all day .. |
| 02:23.42 | cbeust_ | is not enjoying Fallout3 |
| 02:23.42 | DJTachyon | l8rz |
| 02:23.55 | romainguy__ | cbeust_: me neither |
| 02:23.56 | languish | heh l8r |
| 02:24.21 | *** part/#android mikez5 (n=lockwood@pool-72-93-80-103.bstnma.fios.verizon.net) |
| 02:24.37 | cbeust_ | Can someone please make a game that's more fun than WoW? PLEASE? |
| 02:24.37 | gdsx | man... I feel like the only person who doesn't play games that much |
| 02:25.03 | languish | cbeust_, fun girls are more funw ith wow, ansd their games are a lot better too |
| 02:25.04 | romainguy__ | cbeust_: well pretty much any game I've played since WoW came out :p |
| 02:25.12 | languish | with/than |
| 02:25.41 | cbeust_ | romainguy__: for me, no games that I've played since I started wow has kept my attention for more than a few hours |
| 02:26.00 | romainguy__ | cbeust_: you are obviously an addict :) |
| 02:26.01 | languish | addict :/ |
| 02:26.07 | cbeust_ | I know :( |
| 02:26.46 | neekers | better a witty fool than a foolish wit. |
| 02:26.47 | gdsx | cbeust_: you need to become addicted to photography like I am. Or cycling. |
| 02:26.59 | romainguy__ | gdsx: I'm addicted to photography |
| 02:27.01 | neekers | william shakespeare |
| 02:27.05 | gdsx | romainguy__: *high five* |
| 02:27.05 | romainguy__ | it's an annoying addiction sometimes |
| 02:27.06 | ieatlint | the best way to solve an addiction is by concentrating on another addiction |
| 02:27.08 | ieatlint | try alcohol |
| 02:27.16 | gdsx | romainguy__: true |
| 02:27.20 | cbeust_ | I'm addicted to snowboarding, scuba diving, squash and volleyball |
| 02:27.24 | romainguy__ | I have a f*cking backlog of pictures to develop |
| 02:27.32 | cbeust_ | still love to play wow :) |
| 02:27.35 | gdsx | cbeust_: oh, sounds like you should add pole vault |
| 02:27.36 | drasar | Hi there. Could somebody tell me please why is pin's direction set like this way in the kernel? GPDR(60) |= GPIO_bit(60) |
| 02:27.40 | gdsx | cbeust_: that's my favorite addiction |
| 02:27.44 | unix_remote | wishes there an all night coffee place with wifi around here... |
| 02:27.51 | unix_remote | *le sigh* |
| 02:28.13 | gdsx | romainguy__: haha, I'm sifting through photos right now :o) |
| 02:28.20 | neekers | unix, where do you live? |
| 02:28.30 | romainguy__ | I still have to finish the batch from my road trip |
| 02:28.33 | romainguy__ | meh |
| 02:29.10 | unix_remote | neekers: dallas, one of the suburbs. |
| 02:29.43 | neekers | there isnt all night wifi there? |
| 02:29.53 | neekers | in a hotel? |
| 02:29.57 | unix_remote | neekers: i mean a proper coffee place, not a starbucks with grade schoolers and their parents supporting their 20 dollar a day caffeine habit. |
| 02:30.39 | unix_remote | neekers: we're about to get a co-working space here. |
| 02:30.50 | cbeust_ | romainguy__: I would love to get addicted to photography but not sure I have it in me |
| 02:30.58 | ieatlint | funny, i'm at a co-working type place right now |
| 02:31.07 | neekers | how many co workers? |
| 02:31.07 | unix_remote | cbeust_: it's an expensive hobby i hear ;-) |
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| 02:31.13 | romainguy__ | cbeust_: it's a huge investment in time and money |
| 02:31.31 | spikebike | dunno, not really |
| 02:31.32 | cbeust_ | So that's where photographers spend most of their time: sorting out photos? |
| 02:31.40 | romainguy__ | cbeust_: almost |
| 02:31.43 | spikebike | certainly you can |
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| 02:31.57 | romainguy__ | sorting photos and, in case of people like me taking photos of landscape, going to the right spot at the right time |
| 02:32.06 | spikebike | but you could also just buy a d70 used and have a fine camera to use how ever man hours a month as you want |
| 02:32.23 | romainguy__ | spikebike: the body is not the expensive part :) |
| 02:32.28 | unix_remote | romainguy__: also a very lonely habit in a lot of cases. |
| 02:32.36 | spikebike | well you don't have to get a ton of lenses |
| 02:32.37 | romainguy__ | I'm fine with this |
| 02:32.41 | romainguy__ | actually that's part of what I like about it |
| 02:32.53 | unix_remote | spikebike: why buy a d70 when a d90 is only marginally more expensive. |
| 02:33.15 | romainguy__ | spikebike: no, but a few good quality lenses is still expensive; plus all the accessories you get to find mandatory as you become more and more involved in your hobby |
| 02:33.16 | spikebike | decause you can get a d70 fit for a few hundred instead of a d90 for $1200 |
| 02:33.32 | spikebike | s/fit/kit |
| 02:33.54 | unix_remote | last d70 kit i saw was around 500-600. a d90 is 999 last i heard. |
| 02:33.58 | spikebike | used |
| 02:34.08 | spikebike | zillions of folks are upgrading from the d70 -> d90 |
| 02:34.29 | unix_remote | spikebike: I'd agree there. If you're looking to buy used no better deal out there. |
| 02:34.30 | romainguy__ | cbeust_: http://www.flickr.com/search/?q=livermore&w=24046097%40N00 << I woke up at 3 am several days in a row to be able to be on site when I wanted :) |
| 02:34.31 | spikebike | hell even used d300s in unopened boxes were going cheap as people decided to get the d90 instead |
| 02:34.58 | spikebike | yah, there's an opportunity because hordes are upgrading for double the pixels and of course movies |
| 02:34.59 | gdsx | spikebike: unfortunately, I don't think sd is really an option for serious photographers (in that you couldn't share cards among different bodies) |
| 02:35.15 | jham_ | romainguy_: You should see the wind mills in west Texas ;-) |
| 02:35.16 | romainguy__ | gdsx: I second that |
| 02:35.18 | gdsx | (that is, the D80 and D90 don't use compact flash) |
| 02:35.20 | spikebike | gdsx who cares? |
| 02:35.25 | romainguy__ | jham_: I'd love to |
| 02:35.31 | spikebike | 8 GB cards are like $15 |
| 02:35.39 | gdsx | spikebike: uhh... not for quality cards |
| 02:35.41 | romainguy__ | spikebike: not the good ones |
| 02:35.45 | spikebike | maybe double that |
| 02:35.47 | gdsx | spikebike: and quality makes a _big_ difference |
| 02:35.48 | romainguy__ | and unfortunately that matters a lot |
| 02:36.06 | unix_remote | romainguy__: which city are you in? |
| 02:36.09 | romainguy__ | SF |
| 02:36.12 | spikebike | hell even the premium type 6 micro/mini whatever they are are only $30 for 8GB |
| 02:36.21 | romainguy__ | unix_remote: but I lived in Santa Clara at the time |
| 02:36.37 | unix_remote | ah, well yea, it's nice to get out and be alone when you're in a big city like that. |
| 02:36.52 | unix_remote | suburbia is very isoltaed. |
| 02:37.34 | *** join/#android Jennie (n=chatzill@user-142gof2.cable.mindspring.com) |
| 02:37.57 | Jennie | HEY GUYS |
| 02:38.04 | Jennie | Can you tell me where I can buy an android |
| 02:38.18 | spikebike | www.robotsRus.com |
| 02:38.37 | gdsx | Jennie: you can make one in 10 easy steps if you have a willing neighbor |
| 02:39.14 | Jennie | 10 is too much I am grotesquely obese |
| 02:39.43 | gdsx | Jennie: well at least you can spell :o) |
| 02:40.30 | Jennie | Thank you, it comes from spending all my time reading menus that I send my android out to steal from restaurants but I don't actually go out to those restaurants because I am too fat. |
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| 02:41.00 | *** mode/#android [+o cbeust_] by ChanServ |
| 02:41.40 | tretle_ | hi, can anyone tell me whether android has been properly hacked onto other devices yet and not just run on top of symbian/windows mobile? |
| 02:42.08 | unix_remote | tretle_: there are rumors of a semi-functional buil on the HTC vogue. |
| 02:42.09 | cbeust_ | tretle_: Android only runs on G1 as of today, AFAIK |
| 02:43.09 | tretle_ | too bad the g1 wont be sold in ireland any time soon |
| 02:43.12 | tretle_ | :( |
| 02:43.37 | *** join/#android mokolade (n=mokolade@85.221.112.173) |
| 02:44.04 | gdsx | tretle_: I know TMUK launched recently. Do they not serve Ireland? (I don't know) |
| 02:45.03 | spikebike | tretle do they have gsm/edge there? |
| 02:45.29 | tretle_ | no tmobile in ireland |
| 02:45.35 | spikebike | I didn't ask that |
| 02:45.40 | tretle_ | 02, vodafone, metor an three only |
| 02:45.50 | spikebike | tretle do they have gsm/edge there? |
| 02:46.14 | tretle_ | Ireland were one of the fiorst countriesa to switch to 3g :) |
| 02:46.30 | tretle_ | first countries |
| 02:46.33 | spikebike | bzzt try again |
| 02:46.37 | *** part/#android drasar (n=maik@77.93.211.13-msol.msol.cz) |
| 02:46.43 | spikebike | 3G != no gsm/edge |
| 02:47.53 | tretle_ | well edge was used before 3g |
| 02:48.20 | spikebike | tries to extract teeth |
| 02:48.29 | spikebike | so no edge/gsm there? |
| 02:48.54 | tretle_ | Im sure there is, meteor never made the switch to 3g |
| 02:49.53 | tretle_ | I think its more of a case of non of the cell phone carriers being part of the open handset alliance |
| 02:50.16 | tretle_ | the original iphone used edge didnt it |
| 02:50.17 | tretle_ | ? |
| 02:50.21 | raidfive | Should I be able to cause an Intent to fire to open the dialer by hitting tel:2125551212 in the browser? |
| 02:50.26 | oyeoj | yup |
| 02:50.36 | spikebike | well with gsm and edge you can do it yourself |
| 02:50.36 | tmzt | cbeust_: android release (1.0) only runs on g1, but earlier versions are running on vogue, titan, kaiser, I think. also, there were attempts to use it on n810/n800 |
| 02:50.53 | spikebike | heh yeah |
| 02:51.08 | spikebike | google for android on at youtube |
| 02:52.54 | tretle_ | that was running on top of windows mobile/symbian though, I would be looking for a phone that I could completely replace symbian/windows mobile with android |
| 02:53.24 | Jennie | akjs |
| 02:53.35 | gdsx | tretle_: the short answer is that no, there is currently no phone you'd actually want to use that's running Android |
| 02:53.41 | gdsx | (other than G1) |
| 02:54.00 | tretle_ | crud |
| 02:55.16 | *** join/#android iNToIT (n=irc@nycirc.com) |
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| 02:56.54 | *** mode/#android [+o cbeust_] by irc.freenode.net |
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| 02:56.58 | g1er | wouldn't the Wing boot even without a sim? |
| 02:57.52 | g1er | won't* mine does nothing since starting to use the G1(i think it killed itself!) |
| 02:58.03 | tretle_ | hmmm... would be cool to see it running natively on the touch hd |
| 03:00.21 | tmzt | tretle_: that starts from windows, but it replaces it in the ram when running |
| 03:01.52 | *** join/#android ALoGeNo (n=QUAKEIII@48.Red-88-23-200.staticIP.rima-tde.net) |
| 03:02.19 | tretle_ | I guess all we need now is a standard boot loader |
| 03:02.21 | tretle_ | :) |
| 03:03.10 | *** join/#android neerhaj (i=chatzill@203.115.94.227) |
| 03:05.56 | *** join/#android KNY (n=KNY@leonidas.kickersny.com) |
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| 03:13.27 | spikebike | tretle you could just buy a g1 |
| 03:15.47 | *** join/#android mluser-home (n=mluser-h@ip68-0-73-101.tu.ok.cox.net) |
| 03:19.36 | KNY | I don't suppose we have any UK folk here, do we? |
| 03:20.05 | *** join/#android ALoGeNo (n=QUAKEIII@48.Red-88-23-200.staticIP.rima-tde.net) |
| 03:28.54 | wastrel | ok anyone using fbreaderj? it doesn't save location in the book when the app is killed |
| 03:28.57 | wastrel | v. annoing |
| 03:28.58 | wastrel | annoying |
| 03:29.45 | *** join/#android Corpsegrinder (i=Corpsegr@ool-4350f9a1.dyn.optonline.net) |
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| 03:33.51 | offby1 | For how long should the "Unlocking SIM card..." message persist? |
| 03:33.59 | offby1 | it's been there for a minute or more ... |
| 03:34.17 | ramgarden | Has anyone thought about asking ESRI to support their mobile GIS platform on Android? |
| 03:35.07 | ramgarden | I have an excellent idea for an augmented reality mobile device for utility field workers... |
| 03:35.37 | *** join/#android paigeadele (i=erratic@75.146.55.252) |
| 03:36.20 | paigeadele | telnetd doesn't seem to open port 23, any ideas? |
| 03:36.22 | *** join/#android scootley (n=chris@68.55.164.179) |
| 03:36.38 | g1er | have you upgraded ro RC30? |
| 03:36.45 | paigeadele | i dont think so |
| 03:36.54 | wastrel | i did |
| 03:37.00 | g1er | menu-settings-about phone, near the botton |
| 03:37.01 | DarkriftX | telnet cannot open port 23 unless its root |
| 03:37.13 | g1er | :X someone wiser |
| 03:37.31 | DarkriftX | so if you do not have the root bug anymore (rc30) you cannot use telnet on ports lower than 1024 |
| 03:38.00 | paigeadele | the build number says kila-user 1.0 TC4-RC19 |
| 03:38.19 | g1er | cool, your just missing a step somewhere then |
| 03:38.50 | DarkriftX | paigeadele, reboot the phone and as soon as you get to the home screen type "telnetd" and hit enter |
| 03:38.53 | DarkriftX | then try to connect to it |
| 03:39.02 | DarkriftX | if you know the local ip that is |
| 03:39.27 | *** join/#android yakischloba (n=jake@c-24-22-171-214.hsd1.wa.comcast.net) |
| 03:42.16 | paigeadele | ok the slashdot trick worked |
| 03:42.21 | paigeadele | :] |
| 03:42.56 | DarkriftX | ahh |
| 03:43.06 | DarkriftX | slashdot or dotslash |
| 03:43.26 | Neverender | wastrel: yeah |
| 03:43.35 | Neverender | fbreader needs some work |
| 03:43.50 | paigeadele | ok another person here |
| 03:43.54 | paigeadele | Im build 29 |
| 03:44.03 | paigeadele | hang on a sec |
| 03:44.09 | paigeadele | we're gonna try it again on mine |
| 03:44.14 | paigeadele | it didn't work for me though |
| 03:45.03 | paigeadele | it worked for me |
| 03:45.04 | paigeadele | lol |
| 03:46.15 | *** join/#android Slackwise (n=Lance@c-24-13-177-123.hsd1.il.comcast.net) |
| 03:50.46 | *** join/#android spearce (n=spearce@c-24-6-210-175.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
| 03:51.07 | g1er | so from what I understand.. |
| 03:52.14 | g1er | <PROTECTED> |
| 03:52.26 | g1er | this = android |
| 03:53.39 | *** join/#android beylulbahta (n=beylulba@24.sub-70-195-129.myvzw.com) |
| 03:53.58 | g1er | just curious of the possabilities :) |
| 03:55.57 | gdsx | g1er: my impression is that the bootloader is more closely-tied to the hardware than the software it's loading |
| 03:56.46 | gdsx | (for instance, linux has a different bootloader for pretty much every desktop platform it runs on |
| 03:56.56 | DarkriftX | i dont think your radio will work though |
| 03:57.44 | g1er | DarkriftX, that's ok. My wing is about dead anyway. :) |
| 03:57.51 | DarkriftX | lol |
| 03:57.57 | DarkriftX | i wanna get android on my axim x51 |
| 03:58.47 | *** join/#android dglazkov (n=dglazkov@c-24-130-144-56.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
| 03:59.25 | g1er | thanks gdsx, kind of what I gathered from the other HTC attempts out there. |
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| 04:11.07 | DarkriftX | wow, dying out in here earlier then normal |
| 04:11.36 | g1er | refining my statement from waaaaaay earlier "Android system recovery utility E:can't open /cache/recovery/command" |
| 04:11.57 | g1er | nk. I'm not going to learn much tonight :P |
| 04:12.31 | g1er | ^^ what is stated in the home+power alt+l screen |
| 04:12.44 | alansj | g1er: yes, that's an interesting error message... I've been wondering about it |
| 04:12.54 | *** join/#android spearce (n=spearce@c-24-6-210-175.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
| 04:13.24 | g1er | I'm wondering if it checks there first, then sys memory for the recovery install |
| 04:13.58 | alansj | does it check sys memory for the recovery install at all? |
| 04:14.11 | alansj | as far as I could tell, it only ever checks /sdcard/update.zip |
| 04:14.14 | alansj | but I could be wrong |
| 04:14.35 | *** join/#android mocsrox (n=wliu@c-24-6-189-189.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
| 04:14.36 | DarkriftX | the "command" part makes it seem like its not an image its looking for |
| 04:15.29 | g1er | o.0 ok, i just re-installed RC30 update.zip.. |
| 04:15.52 | g1er | deleted a bunch of stuff...then new boot etc. |
| 04:16.10 | DarkriftX | g1er, did you hear the good news? (well, not for you) |
| 04:16.19 | DarkriftX | they figured out how to get to rc30 with root |
| 04:16.25 | g1er | lol ya |
| 04:16.43 | mocsrox | hey guys.. anyone know if you can get a unique identifier from an android phone? |
| 04:16.50 | mocsrox | e.g. a device id or something? |
| 04:16.51 | DarkriftX | now if only i can still find an rc19-29 g1 when im ready to buy |
| 04:17.07 | DarkriftX | mocsrox, someone asked about this a week ago and i think the answer was no |
| 04:17.11 | KNY | mocsrox, that's been asked on android-beginners |
| 04:17.16 | *** join/#android sodne (n=email@68-116-145-96.dhcp.ftwo.tx.charter.com) |
| 04:17.16 | KNY | I think there's an ANDROID_ID |
| 04:17.17 | cbeust_ | mocsrox: the IMEI |
| 04:17.19 | g1er | kinda on my own over here :P (gives spikebike the eveil stare) jk, i learned alot anyway |
| 04:17.19 | KNY | try searching there |
| 04:17.43 | DarkriftX | g1er, return it saying the usb plug is loose or something lol |
| 04:17.50 | g1er | lol |
| 04:17.53 | KNY | if I define something in arrays.xml, can I access that in the code? (strings.xml has getString()) |
| 04:18.03 | DarkriftX | make it seem hardware related, not software :) lol |
| 04:18.34 | mocsrox | KNY: the email list? |
| 04:18.53 | KNY | mocsrox, yeah |
| 04:18.55 | mocsrox | cbeust_: there's a programmatic way to get the IMEI via the sdk? |
| 04:19.04 | mocsrox | KNY: thx |
| 04:19.05 | g1er | as long as I can mod RC30 and keep reinstalling modded versions I'm happy for now :) |
| 04:19.47 | KNY | mocsrox, http://groups.google.com/group/android-beginners/browse_thread/thread/43b6ced2dc3251bc/798582bda8d6ca50?hl=en&lnk=gst&q=ANDROID_ID#798582bda8d6ca50 |
| 04:19.59 | cbeust_ | mocsrox: I don't know but I doubt it for privacy reasons |
| 04:20.55 | KNY | of course I don't see how they can guarantee ANDROID_ID is unique, but it's most likely unique enough |
| 04:21.01 | KNY | seeing as it's 64-bit hex |
| 04:22.41 | mocsrox | KNY: sweet thx! |
| 04:23.35 | *** join/#android ziyourenxiang (n=ziyouren@bb116-14-181-58.singnet.com.sg) |
| 04:23.38 | ionstorm | what set suid files are in rc30 |
| 04:23.46 | ionstorm | eh processes |
| 04:23.52 | ionstorm | what processes are setuid |
| 04:24.37 | ionstorm | root |
| 04:25.53 | g1er | am I going to brick my phone if i change a few of the pictures in the RC and re-install it? |
| 04:26.09 | g1er | ionstorm, how can i check 4 ya? |
| 04:26.18 | ionstorm | busybox find / -type f \( -perm -04000 -o -perm -02000 \) \-exec ls -lg {} \; |
| 04:26.54 | ionstorm | but busybox wont work on thatg |
| 04:26.59 | ionstorm | gotta find another way |
| 04:27.14 | RyeBrye | DarkriftX - how to root on rc30? |
| 04:27.33 | DarkriftX | http://android-dls.com/wiki/index.php?title=Keeping_Root |
| 04:27.54 | RyeBrye | keeping root, yes, but gaining root? |
| 04:27.56 | ionstorm | basically we need to exploit a setuid process |
| 04:28.24 | *** part/#android ramgarden (n=ramgarde@adsl-074-237-181-002.sip.hsv.bellsouth.net) |
| 04:28.47 | *** join/#android dglazkov (n=dglazkov@c-24-130-144-56.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
| 04:29.29 | RyeBrye | JesusFreke himself is now locked out on his own phone, so if we can find a solution for him to gain root that would be good |
| 04:30.48 | g1er | we can reinstall RC's can't something be changed to establish root again? |
| 04:31.04 | RyeBrye | no |
| 04:31.09 | g1er | oh |
| 04:31.09 | RyeBrye | well... not if you have lost it |
| 04:31.32 | RyeBrye | because they are signed and sealed, basically - you can't change any of the files without breaking the signatures |
| 04:32.10 | RyeBrye | and the signatures file itself is then digested and the digest is signed and stored at the end of the CERT.RSA file - so the whole thing is pretty bulletproof |
| 04:32.42 | g1er | bummer :/ |
| 04:33.05 | RyeBrye | To be honest, I think we need to start an organized way to request T-mobile to let people request developer versions of the firmware - |
| 04:33.08 | DarkriftX | by locked out what do we mean? |
| 04:33.11 | DarkriftX | cannot even boot? |
| 04:33.16 | RyeBrye | No, cannot gain root |
| 04:33.19 | DarkriftX | oh |
| 04:33.27 | DarkriftX | not as badd, but yeah.... sucks |
| 04:33.37 | DarkriftX | maybe that will motivate him lol |
| 04:33.59 | RyeBrye | I'm sure it will - but the next exploit will take much longer to find |
| 04:34.02 | *** join/#android tchwbs (n=tchwbs@210-84-32-12.dyn.iinet.net.au) |
| 04:34.14 | g1er | as for RC101, impossible as well? |
| 04:34.25 | RyeBrye | huh? What RC101 are you talking about? |
| 04:34.40 | g1er | cooked RC possibilities |
| 04:35.00 | RyeBrye | If your recovery image is only looking for files signed by HTC, you can't exactly cook anything |
| 04:35.07 | RyeBrye | unless you have their private key |
| 04:35.15 | RyeBrye | and if you have their private key, please send it to me! :P |
| 04:35.17 | g1er | oh, are they hiring? |
| 04:35.31 | RyeBrye | :) |
| 04:35.46 | *** join/#android ramgarden (n=ramgarde@adsl-074-237-181-002.sip.hsv.bellsouth.net) |
| 04:36.12 | ahaberlacho | http://www.google.com/support/jobs/bin/answer.py?answer=81725 |
| 04:39.44 | gdsx | ahaberlacho: maybe I should apply... |
| 04:39.57 | RyeBrye | gdsx - what is your current position? |
| 04:40.16 | RyeBrye | Damm - did your phone bricking ever get fixed? |
| 04:40.16 | gdsx | RyeBrye: SET for Android :o) |
| 04:40.27 | RyeBrye | gdsx - same thing? |
| 04:41.12 | Damm | RyeBrye, yep |
| 04:41.13 | gdsx | RyeBrye: not quite; Mobile includes software for other platforms as well |
| 04:41.23 | Damm | RyeBrye, flashed RC29, then grabbed the full RC30 patch |
| 04:41.27 | Damm | all is good, no root... but I don't mind |
| 04:41.48 | Damm | if it was my personal phone I would have cooked the rom and fucked with it |
| 04:41.55 | Damm | but, it's not, it's a company phone. |
| 04:41.56 | RyeBrye | It should very embarassing for google that your phoen was bricked - seeing as it failed on a file you never touched |
| 04:42.07 | Damm | srsly |
| 04:42.16 | Damm | well T-Mobile has stopped sending RC30 out |
| 04:42.32 | Damm | only a short amount of people got RC30, the rest are the idiots like me who downloaded it. |
| 04:42.53 | RyeBrye | Really? Everyone here was getting peppered with it |
| 04:42.55 | Damm | so obviously the 4meg patch had something wrong. |
| 04:43.02 | RyeBrye | I wonder if my phone is still trying to get it |
| 04:43.04 | Damm | it shouldn't be going out. |
| 04:43.16 | Damm | unless they are OTA'ing the full |
| 04:43.27 | spikebike | well T-Mobile has stopped sending RC30 out |
| 04:43.28 | spikebike | ? |
| 04:43.41 | Damm | spikebike, according to someone inside tmo yes |
| 04:43.47 | spikebike | because? |
| 04:43.48 | RyeBrye | Was it on a forum? |
| 04:43.50 | Damm | they got assaulted with people with their phones bricked |
| 04:44.01 | saurik | <PROTECTED> |
| 04:44.01 | Damm | RyeBrye, no my woman works for t-mobile |
| 04:44.01 | RyeBrye | Those people on the official t-mobile forums seriously have their heads up their butts |
| 04:44.01 | Damm | dur |
| 04:44.13 | RyeBrye | Mine is still trying to download the 4 meg version |
| 04:44.16 | Damm | oh I don't trust those idiots |
| 04:44.18 | RyeBrye | so they didn't stop sending it out |
| 04:44.33 | RyeBrye | maybe they stopped letting new android ID's download it but they didn't stop it going out |
| 04:44.38 | Damm | TSG's story is they stopped sending it out. |
| 04:44.47 | oyeoj | rc30 is briking phones? |
| 04:44.51 | Damm | oyeoj, yes |
| 04:44.52 | oyeoj | bricking* |
| 04:44.56 | Damm | the 4meg patch bricked my phone |
| 04:45.01 | RyeBrye | RC30 is a pimple on the ass of software |
| 04:45.06 | Damm | http://pastie.org/private/6c93yqvxx5qcplcthmslqq ... |
| 04:45.08 | wastrel | i got it |
| 04:45.16 | Damm | that's what I got when I got the 4meg version |
| 04:45.30 | oyeoj | huh |
| 04:45.38 | oyeoj | i got it OTA |
| 04:46.02 | eggy | o.O |
| 04:46.11 | g1er | my RC30 is still hanging in there, a bit slower but, working. |
| 04:47.16 | Damm | T-Mobile got assaulted with people who tried the 4meg update either OTA or downloaded |
| 04:47.19 | Damm | and it bricked their phones |
| 04:47.26 | Damm | so they had to replace 200 phones on the first day |
| 04:47.29 | Damm | shrugs |
| 04:47.30 | wastrel | ouch |
| 04:47.45 | Damm | my phone wasn't modified what so ever (except for busybox) |
| 04:47.51 | Damm | so it shouldn't have had a problem updating |
| 04:48.11 | oyeoj | yeah mine was unmodded |
| 04:48.21 | RyeBrye | That's hilarious |
| 04:48.28 | RyeBrye | What RC was on the ones they replaced? |
| 04:48.40 | Damm | RyeBrye, RC29 |
| 04:48.43 | wastrel | mine was unmodded and was rc25 or whatever htey updated 19 with |
| 04:48.48 | wastrel | now rc30 and ticking along |
| 04:48.50 | g1er | they 4meg was RC29 only |
| 04:48.58 | Damm | g1er, correct |
| 04:49.08 | wastrel | i didn't know there was a 29 |
| 04:49.11 | Damm | g1er, I ended up doing the RC19-RC28-RC29 patch |
| 04:49.34 | g1er | ya, I went through it last night, 19 -> 29 -> 30 |
| 04:49.50 | g1er | no problems thus far |
| 04:49.52 | wastrel | i thought it was 25. i'm bad with numbers :] |
| 04:50.00 | RyeBrye | ???? my phone randomly just rebooted itself |
| 04:50.24 | g1er | 28 was just for a minute. until the first exploit was found a few days into it.. then 29 |
| 04:50.38 | RyeBrye | What was the exploit on 28? |
| 04:51.04 | g1er | I don't think it was a 28 specific but rather an android specific |
| 04:51.19 | *** join/#android sodenrox (n=email@68-116-145-96.dhcp.ftwo.tx.charter.com) |
| 04:51.29 | Damm | browser exploit if i recall |
| 04:51.52 | RyeBrye | speaking of browser - is there a way to do a "find on page" in the browser on Android? |
| 04:52.00 | RyeBrye | searching within a page? |
| 04:52.06 | g1er | not yet :/ |
| 04:52.28 | Damm | mini chrome |
| 04:52.32 | g1er | seems dumb to leave that out |
| 04:52.53 | g1er | not mini-chrome.. ? webkit ? |
| 04:52.56 | Damm | but we have copy and paste |
| 04:53.28 | RyeBrye | Well - can you select text that's not in a text input field on a web page? |
| 04:53.28 | Damm | well it is chrome is it not? |
| 04:53.37 | RyeBrye | no, it's not chrome - it's webkit |
| 04:53.42 | RyeBrye | which chrome is based on |
| 04:53.43 | Damm | yes |
| 04:54.18 | Damm | and it recognizes numbers and addresses |
| 04:54.24 | RyeBrye | How do you select it? |
| 04:54.43 | Damm | so lookup papamurphys and find your location |
| 04:55.09 | Damm | scroll over the # and hit the green call key |
| 04:55.37 | Damm | or press and hold the track ball and select copy |
| 04:56.08 | Damm | then go to contacts and paste the # |
| 04:56.32 | *** join/#android jwjw (i=opera@218.76.151.29) |
| 04:57.27 | *** join/#android unix_infidel (n=blue@unaffiliated/unixinfidel/x-8383745) |
| 04:57.32 | RyeBrye | but what about selecting like a paragraph of text or something? |
| 04:57.55 | Damm | dunno not tried that |
| 04:57.58 | wastrel | scroll down yes? |
| 04:58.53 | RyeBrye | I can copy URLs, but I can't see how to copy random text |
| 04:59.27 | g1er | I don't think that's possible either :/ |
| 04:59.28 | KNY | RyeBrye, alt + trackball selects, IIRC |
| 04:59.51 | waldo_ | so if you move that otacert.zip I gues syou can't download off the market any more huh |
| 04:59.52 | Damm | sorry about that, was typing on the G1 in connectbot for irc |
| 05:00.05 | RyeBrye | waldo - no |
| 05:00.11 | waldo_ | wait I may take that back |
| 05:00.12 | Damm | waldo_, that's not a huge deal you can install manually |
| 05:00.15 | RyeBrye | if you move the cacerts - you can't |
| 05:00.26 | waldo_ | I take it back it totally worked |
| 05:00.26 | Damm | waldo_, did you do the hostfile trick? |
| 05:00.30 | waldo_ | what's the hostfile trick? |
| 05:00.31 | RyeBrye | if you moved the cacerts after I specifically said not to, I will pimp slap you |
| 05:00.37 | RyeBrye | :P |
| 05:00.58 | ahaberlacho | And RyeBrye is pretty hardcore pimpish! |
| 05:01.05 | Damm | waldo_, someone was trying to sell adding clients.android.google.com to the hostfile would stop the OTA. |
| 05:01.13 | gdsx | RyeBrye: keep in mind that the G1 will pimp-slap you back |
| 05:01.17 | RyeBrye | :) |
| 05:01.22 | waldo_ | damm ah, that's an interesting idea |
| 05:01.34 | RyeBrye | waldo - just move the OTAcerts - that will take care of it |
| 05:01.42 | RyeBrye | the host file thing DOES block the market, iirc |
| 05:01.49 | waldo_ | RyeBrye: that's waht I did |
| 05:01.51 | Damm | haha |
| 05:01.52 | Damm | http://blogs.zdnet.com/Burnette/?p=680 |
| 05:01.55 | Damm | that's awesome |
| 05:02.03 | Damm | i didn't realize that everything we typed was going out as root |
| 05:02.07 | waldo_ | damm yup |
| 05:02.10 | Damm | waldo_, breaks the market. |
| 05:02.22 | waldo_ | nah the market works fine I realize now |
| 05:02.25 | Damm | and to me that's unacceptable |
| 05:02.29 | waldo_ | w/otacert being renamed |
| 05:02.32 | Damm | waldo_, if you do the hostfile trick, it breaks it. |
| 05:03.14 | RyeBrye | yeah, moving otacerts doesn't hurt it |
| 05:03.21 | RyeBrye | it just hurts the OTA updates |
| 05:03.37 | Damm | so uh, with RC30 can you still do reboot from the keyboard |
| 05:03.38 | Damm | hohum |
| 05:03.39 | Damm | tries |
| 05:04.28 | Damm | nah, but that's funny as heck |
| 05:04.29 | paigeadele | what is this udp port 9000 that listening on 0.0.0.0? |
| 05:04.48 | paigeadele | on the android * |
| 05:05.53 | spikebike | damm? |
| 05:07.37 | RyeBrye | Damm - RC30 blocks the reboot from the keyboard |
| 05:08.42 | Damm | RyeBrye, right. |
| 05:08.54 | Damm | so if you type on the keyboard ping 207.229.71.7 |
| 05:08.59 | Damm | you can keep an open ping running as root |
| 05:09.13 | Damm | which will keep your data connection open until you r-e-b-o-o-t |
| 05:09.14 | Damm | lol |
| 05:09.38 | Damm | that's even more nefarious then I thought to begin with |
| 05:11.53 | gdsx | Damm: what do you mean? |
| 05:11.57 | oyeoj | wait rc30 doesnt disable the whole phantom shell? just blocks reboot??!? |
| 05:12.16 | oyeoj | that cant be right |
| 05:12.18 | DarkriftX | no oyeoj |
| 05:12.37 | DarkriftX | i think he is saying it removes permissions from everythign except for ping which still has root permissions |
| 05:13.03 | Fnord^AFK | that's normal |
| 05:13.53 | Damm | sighs |
| 05:14.08 | Damm | DarkriftX, ... don't speak for me ever again. |
| 05:14.24 | DarkriftX | Damm, grow up |
| 05:14.40 | DarkriftX | i think damm is brutesource |
| 05:14.47 | DarkriftX | both do nothing but troll |
| 05:15.39 | ahaberlacho | Troll, Troll, Troll your chan |
| 05:15.43 | ionstorm | can u reflash update.zip once upgraded to rc30 |
| 05:15.45 | ahaberlacho | Gently down the tubes |
| 05:15.48 | ionstorm | with a modd'd fw |
| 05:15.54 | ahaberlacho | Merrily, merrily merrily, merrily |
| 05:15.58 | ahaberlacho | Uh, whatever. |
| 05:16.08 | *** join/#android sodenrox (n=email@68-116-145-96.dhcp.ftwo.tx.charter.com) |
| 05:16.08 | *** join/#android dglazkov_ (n=dglazkov@72.14.224.1) |
| 05:16.21 | Damm | ionstorm, yes |
| 05:16.24 | Damm | well no |
| 05:16.27 | Damm | you have to go to rc29 first |
| 05:16.28 | Damm | and then yes |
| 05:16.38 | ionstorm | u can downgrade? |
| 05:16.43 | g1er | ? |
| 05:16.45 | Fnord^AFK | you can go to 29 from 30? |
| 05:16.48 | Damm | it's not upgrading the boot loader, there will be a point when they upgrade the boot loader, or do something that won't let you downgrade. |
| 05:17.02 | Damm | Fnord^AFK, if you grab the RC19-RC28 yes |
| 05:17.05 | Fnord^AFK | they do update the bootloader |
| 05:17.16 | Damm | they update boot.img |
| 05:17.16 | Damm | not the same thing |
| 05:17.25 | Fnord^ | And recovery.img |
| 05:17.37 | ionstorm | so u can downgrade from rc30 to rc 19 |
| 05:17.39 | ionstorm | ? |
| 05:17.45 | Damm | someone give me a rc29 bootloader info |
| 05:17.47 | Damm | ionstorm, should be able to yes |
| 05:17.57 | ionstorm | cant downgrade to rc29 tho? |
| 05:18.14 | Damm | to rc19? if you have a full rc19 image |
| 05:18.28 | Damm | drea100 pvt 32b... hboot 0.95.0000 cpld-4 radio-1.22.12.29 |
| 05:18.31 | DarkriftX | rc19-rc28 zip file is rc29 |
| 05:18.36 | Damm | i assume that's the same |
| 05:19.21 | Damm | if someone who has rc29 will shut off their phone, power it on holding the camera button |
| 05:19.24 | Damm | we can confirm or deny |
| 05:19.43 | Damm | and no your emulator does not count DarkriftX. |
| 05:19.47 | DarkriftX | i have screenshots of rc29 |
| 05:19.55 | DarkriftX | but im not confirming shit for your ass |
| 05:20.07 | DarkriftX | ok, not screenshots, camera pics taken of the rc29 bootloader |
| 05:20.56 | Damm | DarkriftX, good because I wouldn't believe it if you tried. |
| 05:21.23 | DarkriftX | i wouldnt blame you, trolls never believe anything they are told |
| 05:21.39 | DarkriftX | they are always right and everyone else is always wrong |
| 05:21.55 | Fnord^ | anyway rc29 update wouldn't have rc30 in it's initial version check |
| 05:22.25 | Damm | Fnord^, why would a full version do a version check anywho? |
| 05:22.41 | DarkriftX | because the script tells it to |
| 05:22.46 | DarkriftX | my emulator told me that one :) |
| 05:22.46 | Fnord^ | No clue. rc30fuil does |
| 05:23.14 | DarkriftX | rc29 does also |
| 05:23.21 | DarkriftX | first few lines of the update script |
| 05:23.38 | paigeadele | # cat udp sl local_address rem_address st tx_queue rx_queue tr tm->when retrnsmt uid timeout inode 40: 00000000:2328 00000000:0000 07 00000000:00000000 00:00000000 00000000 1010 0 658 2 c593bba0 |
| 05:23.42 | paigeadele | # |
| 05:23.45 | paigeadele | anyone know how to look up that inode? |
| 05:24.50 | Fnord^ | find / -ls |grep inode? |
| 05:25.28 | Fnord^ | never seen a hexadecimal inode |
| 05:25.29 | Damm | Fnord^, you got find on your G1? |
| 05:25.38 | Damm | Fnord^, it's YAFFS2... so I wouldn't be shocked |
| 05:25.55 | Fnord^ | damn, got busybox which has it |
| 05:25.59 | DarkriftX | lol |
| 05:27.48 | Damm | Fnord^, busybox rocks. |
| 05:28.16 | jriley60 | hey can someone explain adb to me |
| 05:28.35 | jriley60 | i did jesusfreke's new update and the telnetd command didn't stick around |
| 05:29.00 | jriley60 | so i'm either learning about adb or turning back to rc29 |
| 05:30.34 | ismarc | Damm: sorry it took me a bit, rc29 booting is: drea100 pvt 32b hboot-0.95.0000 cpld-4 radio-1.22.12.29, sep 2 2008 |
| 05:30.51 | Damm | ismarc, so it's xactly the same then. |
| 05:31.01 | ismarc | yup |
| 05:31.03 | Damm | so clearly you can turn back to rc29 if you wanted. |
| 05:31.40 | g1er | verifying... |
| 05:31.42 | Damm | i wonder how boring mtty would be with that screen |
| 05:32.31 | RyeBrye | jriley60 - just get the official terminal app |
| 05:32.32 | g1er | k.. we got a failure |
| 05:32.40 | Damm | g1er, ? |
| 05:32.42 | RyeBrye | g1er - what re you trying? |
| 05:32.47 | Damm | can't go back to rc29? |
| 05:32.51 | g1er | lol ya |
| 05:32.59 | Damm | what happened? |
| 05:33.07 | RyeBrye | you can never go backk..... you can NEVER GO BACKKK>>>> |
| 05:33.26 | g1er | E:Failure at line 1: (you want all the tech stuff as well)? |
| 05:33.32 | Damm | RyeBrye, sure you can... otherwise when I bricked my phone with RC30... i shouldn't have been able to reinstall RC30 |
| 05:33.34 | jriley60 | from the market ryebrye? that's what i tried |
| 05:33.37 | Damm | g1er, sure, pastie.org it |
| 05:33.39 | jriley60 | <PROTECTED> |
| 05:33.47 | g1er | nah |
| 05:33.54 | g1er | ok give me a minute |
| 05:34.20 | RyeBrye | welll.. ues |
| 05:34.48 | RyeBrye | jriley - pterminal sucks |
| 05:34.56 | RyeBrye | jriley - use the real one, the one hello android put up there |
| 05:35.10 | *** join/#android DarkriftX (n=AAQWR1@ip68-104-161-224.ph.ph.cox.net) |
| 05:35.13 | RyeBrye | jriley - if you have JesusFrekes mods on there, you will see # instead of $ when you do it - or you can at least do su |
| 05:35.25 | *** join/#android sodne (n=email@68-116-145-96.dhcp.ftwo.tx.charter.com) |
| 05:35.46 | *** join/#android winfield (n=winfield@221.12.10.218) |
| 05:35.56 | Adamant | swetland: is there any chance of getting a tailcall instruction in Dalvik? |
| 05:36.12 | jriley60 | huh well damn it's not working |
| 05:36.16 | DarkriftX | i thought we already covered the reasons why you cannot downgrade (without editing the script to not check current versions) |
| 05:36.21 | Adamant | I think it's been proposed for Java 7 but I don't know if they care enough to do it or not |
| 05:36.26 | jriley60 | i see $ and i followed the link from his latest post |
| 05:36.28 | RyeBrye | jriley60 - are you using pterminal or are you usng the real one? |
| 05:36.40 | jriley60 | what's the real one |
| 05:36.44 | swetland | adamant: I know Dan (the vm lead) is open to adding more features |
| 05:36.44 | RyeBrye | look in the market |
| 05:36.50 | RyeBrye | pterminal is a piece of crap |
| 05:37.01 | jriley60 | ah got a name for the other one |
| 05:37.07 | Adamant | swetland: the VM's open source, right? |
| 05:37.11 | RyeBrye | Terminal Emulator, I think |
| 05:37.11 | swetland | yup |
| 05:37.14 | DarkriftX | terminal might work jriley60 |
| 05:37.16 | Adamant | cool. |
| 05:37.26 | Adamant | swetland: thank you |
| 05:37.27 | swetland | http://android.git.kernel.org/?p=platform/dalvik.git |
| 05:38.34 | jriley60 | terminal emulator is giving the same thing |
| 05:38.40 | Adamant | swetland: that will make it much easier to get "higher-level languages" into Dalvik and have them compile to something decent |
| 05:38.41 | jriley60 | ahh sucky |
| 05:39.36 | g1er | http://pastebin.com/d560bd776 |
| 05:41.31 | g1er | phone's working fine after failed install, fyi. |
| 05:41.48 | *** join/#android plusminus_ (i=d0365e43@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-6567a84e92019885) |
| 05:43.30 | plusminus_ | irc from G1... |
| 05:44.59 | swetland | adamant: I know dan is definitely interested in seeing other languages target the dalvik vm, so I suspect he'd be supportive of such efforts |
| 05:45.15 | Damm | g1er, interesting... |
| 05:45.24 | Damm | g1er, makes me wonder if they changed the keys |
| 05:45.41 | RyeBrye | DarkriftX - it seems every full update checks for "test_keys" - so if there was ever a version released that had "test_keys" again by accident like there was last time - someone could install that and then go back in time to any update |
| 05:46.18 | RyeBrye | G1er- what version were you on and which were you going back to? |
| 05:46.30 | g1er | rc30 going to rc29 |
| 05:46.35 | RyeBrye | Yeah, that's why it failed |
| 05:46.35 | g1er | rc30 patch* |
| 05:46.37 | RyeBrye | you failed that check |
| 05:46.38 | Fnord^ | they did change keys |
| 05:46.47 | RyeBrye | THey changed the ota keys? |
| 05:46.52 | Fnord^ | yup |
| 05:46.58 | DarkriftX | RyeBrye, good to know, i will be getting a copy of that test update soon |
| 05:46.58 | RyeBrye | How do you know? |
| 05:47.00 | Fnord^ | it was in the patchlist. otacerts.zip |
| 05:47.10 | RyeBrye | Interesting |
| 05:47.13 | Damm | g1er, yes the keys are different |
| 05:47.21 | Damm | releasekey.x509.pem is different in rc29 and rc30 |
| 05:47.29 | Damm | so then I guess you can't go back. |
| 05:47.45 | RyeBrye | Maybe that was the reason |
| 05:48.00 | Damm | unless you can find a way to replace /etc/security/otacerts.zip |
| 05:48.23 | RyeBrye | I don't care at all about what they do with their keys... since my phone will never use them |
| 05:48.35 | RyeBrye | but it is funny they would change the key like that |
| 05:48.37 | g1er | fyi you can.. reinstall rc30 patch and full rc30 over rc30 patch |
| 05:48.53 | g1er | don't know if thats helpful tho |
| 05:48.59 | RyeBrye | the full versions are nice because you can always reinstall them over themselves |
| 05:49.02 | DarkriftX | you can always install the same version over itself |
| 05:49.07 | Damm | not really helpful |
| 05:49.15 | RyeBrye | that's why I was a little miffed and a little nervous seeing on the 4mb patch go out |
| 05:49.16 | DarkriftX | you were able to install the rc19-rc29 update over itself |
| 05:49.30 | DarkriftX | although i dont officially know that, being an emulator user myself |
| 05:49.30 | RyeBrye | well, it's good to know they haven't removed the feature |
| 05:49.42 | Damm | that's kinda interesting how they change the release key |
| 05:50.19 | Fnord^ | yeh |
| 05:50.28 | Damm | change you key on each release, sign the new update with the key you updated on the last release |
| 05:50.38 | Damm | ensures that if your key is ever comprimised... your not doomed |
| 05:51.06 | RyeBrye | Maybe they did cryptanalysis on it and determined it was a weaker key - so weak, in fact, taht it would only take 10^120 years instead of the normal 10^138 years to crack with our current technology |
| 05:51.13 | *** join/#android mluser-home (n=mluser-h@ip68-0-73-101.tu.ok.cox.net) |
| 05:51.39 | Fnord^ | did they hire a bunch of people from sony or what? |
| 05:51.42 | RyeBrye | Yeah, interesting practice. I can't see any good reason NOT to do it - and it is easy enough to do |
| 05:51.48 | Damm | Fnord^, no Danger. |
| 05:51.57 | RyeBrye | but... seriously... using a 2048 bit key should be enough for the next couple of billion years |
| 05:51.58 | Fnord^ | cuz this is reminding me of psp drama |
| 05:52.18 | RyeBrye | (ok, maybe the next 50) |
| 05:52.28 | jriley60 | anyone got a link to a tutorial to get me headed in the right direction using adb |
| 05:52.29 | jriley60 | he |
| 05:52.31 | jriley60 | h |
| 05:52.37 | DarkriftX | for what jriley60? |
| 05:52.42 | RyeBrye | I guess the generally accepted date for a 2048 bit key is 2030 |
| 05:52.48 | jriley60 | to learn |
| 05:52.49 | DarkriftX | jriley60, do you have the sdk installed? |
| 05:52.52 | jriley60 | yeah |
| 05:52.53 | RyeBrye | if my phone still works in 2030, I will be impressed |
| 05:53.08 | g1er | 2010 and I'll be impressed |
| 05:53.20 | unix_infidel | yea, the G1 doesnt feel that solid to me. |
| 05:53.30 | unix_infidel | i'd wager it gives out soon after the 2 year contract is over, if not before then. |
| 05:54.22 | RyeBrye | DarkriftX - are you getting an RC30 test_keys release? |
| 05:54.34 | DarkriftX | no, the rc29 one |
| 05:54.37 | RyeBrye | ok |
| 05:54.43 | DarkriftX | the one that dissapeared |
| 05:54.51 | Fnord^ | ? |
| 05:54.52 | RyeBrye | but the key did change between the releases though? :( |
| 05:55.11 | RyeBrye | I wonder what the RC29 test key update script looks like |
| 05:55.15 | DarkriftX | no idea, i havent seen the file myself |
| 05:55.18 | RyeBrye | but yeah, if oyu can get that, I'd be interested |
| 05:55.46 | *** join/#android muthu (n=mobeegal@59.92.22.59) |
| 05:56.11 | RyeBrye | ... note to anyone who ever posts on t-mobile's abomination of a forum: |
| 05:56.21 | RyeBrye | don't EVER say "subscribe" on a thread |
| 05:56.41 | Damm | why's that? |
| 05:57.02 | Damm | hasn't bothered with the t-mobile forums |
| 05:57.10 | DarkriftX | RyeBrye, as soon as i get it it will be hosted on the wiki |
| 05:57.26 | RyeBrye | oh, nm, I did find the unsubscribe button - they just buryit |
| 05:57.30 | spikebike | 2048-bit RSA keys to 112-bit symmetric keys |
| 05:58.08 | spikebike | how many ops to check a key these days? 100? |
| 05:58.33 | g1er | was active in the t-mo forums for about the first week of the g1 |
| 05:58.49 | g1er | good for basic user GUI questions |
| 05:58.53 | jriley60 | i was active there till i got my phone |
| 05:58.54 | jriley60 | lol |
| 05:59.08 | jriley60 | bitching about it not coming fast enough with everyone else |
| 05:59.13 | RyeBrye | yeah |
| 05:59.14 | g1er | lol |
| 05:59.32 | RyeBrye | The admins on there are technically incompetant |
| 05:59.36 | jriley60 | haven't been back since i have it |
| 05:59.45 | Damm | RyeBrye, reminds me of most of T-Mobile Employee's then. |
| 06:00.00 | jriley60 | i did get a 81 page thread shut down though i got so bored |
| 06:00.00 | RyeBrye | Yeah. I would have thought they could hire at least one or two smart people and have them run a forum |
| 06:00.02 | Damm | i'm shocked that T-Mobile can get as much done as they do. |
| 06:00.21 | RyeBrye | if you are going to run a forum on a SmartPhone - maybe hire a SmartPerson? |
| 06:00.37 | Damm | lol |
| 06:00.43 | Damm | no |
| 06:00.44 | Damm | too much drama in T-Mobile |
| 06:00.44 | Damm | requires someone who can create drama |
| 06:00.56 | radix | if you're a smart person, why would you be buggered to run a forum when you could get a better job? |
| 06:01.25 | Damm | excellent point |
| 06:01.31 | RyeBrye | radix - the salary would have to be competitive |
| 06:01.51 | RyeBrye | but, of course, the salary would also have to compensate for the career-killing factor of working running the forum at T-mobile :) |
| 06:02.12 | DarkriftX | RyeBrye, calling a tmo tech competent would be like calling a rock soft |
| 06:02.42 | RyeBrye | I think one smart person at $80k would be a lot better than 2 dumb people at $40k or 3 dum people at $30k or so |
| 06:02.53 | spikebike | yeah |
| 06:03.13 | spikebike | but the think is the people who work for tmo aren't smart enough to recognize someone worth $80k |
| 06:03.18 | Damm | RyeBrye, more then likely they hired some nubs in Canada who recently moved from India. |
| 06:03.19 | DarkriftX | explain that to the execs at tmo, they arent all that competent either. |
| 06:03.25 | spikebike | and if they did they would stick around for 6 months before moving to somewhere better |
| 06:03.30 | Damm | and are being held hostage by T-Mobile's outsourced center in Canada. |
| 06:03.32 | jriley60 | hmm can't get my sd card to mount either |
| 06:04.03 | Damm | I forget the name of the "PDA" Support Center for T-Mobile, but they traffic their 'good reps' from India to Canada. |
| 06:04.13 | RyeBrye | interesting |
| 06:04.25 | Damm | no it's really disgusting |
| 06:04.44 | DarkriftX | jriley60, is this a factory sd card that shipped with the g1? |
| 06:05.28 | jriley60 | yea |
| 06:05.40 | jriley60 | it will mount on my windows box |
| 06:06.09 | DarkriftX | didnt you install updates using that card before? |
| 06:06.38 | jriley60 | yes i'm not sure what's going on right now. i shoulda stuck with rc29 i was happy lol |
| 06:06.45 | DarkriftX | odd |
| 06:06.51 | DarkriftX | is your card sandisk by chance? |
| 06:06.54 | DarkriftX | (guessing no) |
| 06:06.59 | *** part/#android neerhaj (i=chatzill@203.115.94.227) |
| 06:07.05 | jriley60 | yes it is |
| 06:07.08 | DarkriftX | hrmmmm |
| 06:07.22 | g1er | jriley60 rc30.. you probably know but in the notification bar you have to select to mount it |
| 06:07.31 | jriley60 | yea |
| 06:07.46 | jriley60 | it won't mount from the card reader either i don't think it's a phone thing |
| 06:07.48 | DarkriftX | do you mean wont mount during normal boot, or during recovery console |
| 06:07.55 | DarkriftX | ok |
| 06:08.04 | DarkriftX | prob needs to be repartitioned |
| 06:08.11 | jriley60 | yea |
| 06:08.20 | jriley60 | i'm going to reboot |
| 06:08.23 | DarkriftX | first ive heard of a problem with the factory sandisk cards though, normally its the other brand they shipped |
| 06:08.29 | jriley60 | and then repartition |
| 06:08.46 | jriley60 | i really think it might be my machine |
| 06:09.17 | *** join/#android unix_infidel (n=blue@unaffiliated/unixinfidel/x-8383745) |
| 06:11.44 | *** join/#android jriley60 (n=joshua@c-24-99-53-104.hsd1.ga.comcast.net) |
| 06:11.52 | jriley60 | yup stupid box |
| 06:13.11 | DarkriftX | nice |
| 06:14.13 | jriley60 | is it possible to flash from jesusfrekes modded rc30 back to the old modded rc29? |
| 06:14.30 | DarkriftX | actually, im sure it is if you edit the modded rc29 script |
| 06:14.30 | RyeBrye | jriley - yeah |
| 06:14.39 | RyeBrye | just mod the install script on rc29 |
| 06:14.40 | jriley60 | ah good |
| 06:14.42 | DarkriftX | either remvoe the version checking line or edit it |
| 06:14.46 | RyeBrye | that's kind of the point of the modded thing |
| 06:15.29 | jriley60 | thank little baby jebus |
| 06:15.29 | RyeBrye | I think your time is better spent figuring out ADB than reverting to what you already know |
| 06:15.29 | jriley60 | yea where do i start |
| 06:15.29 | jriley60 | i need to learn anyway |
| 06:16.09 | Damm | interesting |
| 06:16.17 | Damm | looking over jesusfreke's modded recovery and boot images |
| 06:16.22 | Damm | makes his modded rc30 interesting |
| 06:16.25 | spikebike | ya me as well |
| 06:16.34 | Fnord^ | he modded rc30? |
| 06:16.36 | spikebike | I kinda wish he'd post simple straight forward directions |
| 06:16.37 | spikebike | ya |
| 06:16.40 | RyeBrye | That guy is committed |
| 06:16.49 | spikebike | instead of saying go check this other thread |
| 06:16.56 | Damm | Fnord^, yes. |
| 06:17.00 | spikebike | then come back and er implement something from 3 other threads |
| 06:17.01 | RyeBrye | He BOUGHT another G1 because he accidently upgraded his to RC30 as a mistake |
| 06:17.07 | Damm | he bought a new phone that had rc29, and blah |
| 06:17.08 | Damm | yeah |
| 06:17.26 | spikebike | rye dunno seems like a g1 is worth the cost new one bay |
| 06:17.30 | Fnord^ | hah |
| 06:17.50 | RyeBrye | I can't parse that :P |
| 06:17.57 | Fnord^ | so much for my spotlight XD |
| 06:18.39 | RyeBrye | http://forums.t-mobile.com/tmbl/board/message?board.id=87&thread.id=18501 If anyone wants to jump on the bandwagon... |
| 06:18.56 | Damm | the only real point of going the way of jesusfreke |
| 06:18.57 | RyeBrye | it wont accomplish anything, but I'm going to start trying to make some noise towards T-mobile |
| 06:19.07 | Damm | will be when the android tree can be built easily |
| 06:19.20 | Damm | you can keep up with the changes to make your G1 stable, and yet still rooted |
| 06:19.37 | RyeBrye | Damm - it can be - but the problem is that the open source build lacks some things like YouTube or other apps |
| 06:19.57 | RyeBrye | Damm - but yeah, a full open source build would be what I would prefer to run with |
| 06:20.19 | RyeBrye | Just repo sync and rebuild whenever a new noteworthy feature comes out - and never have to do an OTA update again |
| 06:20.43 | RyeBrye | I would alrady be banging on the latest tree - but they don't have their latest "next" kind of tree public yet |
| 06:20.54 | Damm | RyeBrye, you can grab those .apk's from a regular phone and install them in your image |
| 06:21.11 | Damm | not a huge deal |
| 06:21.18 | RyeBrye | Damm - yeah, but I think some apks need to be signed wtht he same key that the platform is signed with |
| 06:21.26 | RyeBrye | I suppose I could resign them with my platform key |
| 06:21.34 | Damm | resign them with your test key |
| 06:21.41 | RyeBrye | yeah, that would work |
| 06:22.21 | Damm | all the signing is... is java's jarsign |
| 06:22.26 | Damm | so it's not a huge deal |
| 06:22.28 | RyeBrye | yep |
| 06:22.44 | RyeBrye | although I like the signapk tool they have a bit better for using |
| 06:23.21 | RyeBrye | keytool is like a maze that only the most well-trained rats can navigate in my experience |
| 06:23.28 | RyeBrye | might just be a dumb rat |
| 06:23.29 | Damm | isn't it the same basic thing? |
| 06:23.35 | Damm | ah |
| 06:23.45 | RyeBrye | yeah, but the args are simpler |
| 06:23.53 | Damm | i remember how much fun it was converting a .pem key+cert into keytool |
| 06:24.01 | RyeBrye | yes |
| 06:24.04 | RyeBrye | exactly |
| 06:24.08 | Damm | had to convert them to pkcs12 |
| 06:24.20 | Damm | zomg it took me like 4 hours to find decent instructions |
| 06:24.27 | RyeBrye | I did a support gig once and I had to do something similar for someone |
| 06:24.32 | Damm | and I never got the CA in... so it wasn't trusted well |
| 06:24.51 | Damm | so our tomcat webapp never served the CA |
| 06:24.52 | RyeBrye | They were on Windows... I had them use the windows key thing to import their key and then export it since the keytool was so borked |
| 06:25.16 | Damm | which means if the CA wasn't installed, it was untrusted |
| 06:25.20 | Damm | which is fail |
| 06:25.34 | RyeBrye | ooops :) |
| 06:25.51 | jriley60 | how do i start adb this is crazy heh |
| 06:25.58 | Damm | jriley60, tools/adb? |
| 06:26.12 | jriley60 | yea i guess |
| 06:26.13 | RyeBrye | loves screenshot2 in the tools the most |
| 06:26.39 | RyeBrye | What's the max framerate you can get out of that thing doing screenshot2 I wonder ? |
| 06:26.42 | RyeBrye | 3 fps? |
| 06:31.16 | Fnord^ | RyeBrye, i dunno if changing the build.fingerprint is a good idea |
| 06:31.27 | Fnord^ | the phone..phones home |
| 06:33.26 | Damm | Fnord^, correct |
| 06:33.35 | Damm | most phones phone home kinda |
| 06:34.04 | Fnord^ | spewing out a modded version string might cause 'problems' with your account or your brakelines |
| 06:34.24 | Damm | what scares me the most is how no one minds giving google their gooey details anymore |
| 06:34.57 | Fnord^ | yeah |
| 06:35.00 | Fnord^ | hmm |
| 06:35.04 | Fnord^ | speaking of |
| 06:35.05 | cbeust_ | What scares me is that people give all their information to the Internet providers and don't care about it |
| 06:35.16 | Fnord^ | has anyone figured out how to change the account yet? |
| 06:35.29 | Damm | Fnord^, factory reset. |
| 06:35.31 | cbeust_ | Fnord^: factory reset |
| 06:35.31 | jriley60 | bash: adb: command not found |
| 06:35.38 | Fnord^ | -besides- that |
| 06:35.41 | Damm | jriley60, tools/adb |
| 06:35.49 | ionstorm | christ I cant believe google has pwn'd us with rc30 |
| 06:35.49 | michaelnovakjr__ | jriley60: put it in your path |
| 06:35.50 | ionstorm | wtf |
| 06:36.19 | ionstorm | they could have at least left our root axs allone |
| 06:36.30 | Damm | ionstorm, there was a bigger problem then root. |
| 06:36.37 | michaelnovakjr__ | ionstorm: i still don't see what's great about the root access |
| 06:36.44 | Damm | technically you could do rm -rf /* on the keyboard |
| 06:36.50 | Damm | and it would wipe the phone |
| 06:36.52 | ionstorm | lol |
| 06:37.06 | Damm | course /system is mounted ro |
| 06:37.09 | Damm | but that's not the point |
| 06:37.33 | ionstorm | they could have left our chmod'd files |
| 06:38.00 | spikebike | ya |
| 06:38.09 | ionstorm | thats evil |
| 06:38.15 | ionstorm | evil evil evil |
| 06:38.16 | jriley60 | could the fact that i'm on 64 bit cause complications with adb?> |
| 06:38.28 | michaelnovakjr__ | jriley60: you need to put it in your path |
| 06:38.43 | ionstorm | hmm |
| 06:38.45 | jriley60 | i tired |
| 06:38.49 | jriley60 | tried |
| 06:38.55 | michaelnovakjr__ | jriley60: or go to the directory that has android in it go to tools and run ./adb |
| 06:39.01 | ionstorm | what directory is left allone during the rc30 update? |
| 06:39.07 | jham_ | Damm: I'm pretty sure that the rm on the phone doesn't do -r |
| 06:39.15 | ionstorm | can we hide a file somewhere? |
| 06:39.17 | michaelnovakjr__ | jham_: i think it does |
| 06:39.26 | ionstorm | hmmmmm |
| 06:39.31 | Damm | jham_, test it for us? |
| 06:39.32 | Damm | lol |
| 06:39.33 | jriley60 | ah thank you michael |
| 06:39.43 | michaelnovakjr__ | :) that means it didn't get added to your path |
| 06:39.44 | DarkriftX | jham_, i think it does |
| 06:39.57 | Fnord^ | ionstorm, /data, /cache, but both are mounted nosuid |
| 06:40.01 | michaelnovakjr__ | you'll have to run it from the directory with ./adb unless you do |
| 06:40.04 | Damm | actually DarkriftX can test it for us... load up a RC29 emulator |
| 06:40.07 | Damm | and rm -rf /* |
| 06:40.26 | cbeust_ | How about trying on a different directory? :) |
| 06:40.26 | ionstorm | where are apps downloaded |
| 06:40.27 | ionstorm | ? |
| 06:40.35 | ionstorm | and installed |
| 06:40.47 | michaelnovakjr__ | or just create one and put stuff in it and try it :) |
| 06:40.50 | Fnord^ | can the emulator install updates? |
| 06:40.50 | Damm | ionstorm, /data/app |
| 06:41.01 | Damm | Fnord^, can't imagine why not? |
| 06:41.02 | jham_ | look at that, rm does do -r |
| 06:41.08 | jham_ | though no -f |
| 06:41.12 | Fnord^ | not quite the same os |
| 06:41.23 | DarkriftX | no Fnord^ he thinks that someone who does not own a g1 cannot know anything about android and trolls about it all day long |
| 06:41.33 | Damm | jham_, without -f it's not as devastating. |
| 06:41.57 | ionstorm | why not hide su in /data/app ? |
| 06:41.59 | Damm | will ou please shutup already about everyone trolling DarkriftX. |
| 06:42.01 | RyeBrye | Damm - unless they don't have a -f because it doesn't have a -i ? |
| 06:42.03 | Fnord^ | errr i was just wondering if it could install updates. good way to test mods |
| 06:42.04 | geist | dont listen to jham_ |
| 06:42.08 | DarkriftX | not everyone, just you |
| 06:42.09 | geist | he's a troll |
| 06:42.13 | spikebike | weird |
| 06:42.26 | michaelnovakjr__ | rm only has recursive |
| 06:42.28 | spikebike | rc29 g1 now thinks that my home access point is a t-mobile access point |
| 06:42.29 | michaelnovakjr__ | no other options |
| 06:42.31 | Damm | RyeBrye, true you don't need -f. |
| 06:42.37 | Damm | no need for forcng |
| 06:42.40 | jham_ | Listen to geist, he totally knows what he's talking about |
| 06:42.45 | geist | damn straight. |
| 06:42.58 | geist | hey wait, you just tried to reverse-troll me! |
| 06:43.00 | DarkriftX | ignores jham_ for excessive trolling |
| 06:43.01 | Damm | force of habbit to rm -rf |
| 06:43.08 | RyeBrye | me too |
| 06:43.22 | RyeBrye | spikebike - that's funnny... maybe they hacked your AP to get back at you for hacking on their phone |
| 06:43.29 | spikebike | heh |
| 06:43.29 | jham_ | geist: I'm tricky like that |
| 06:43.38 | Fnord^ | brb |
| 06:43.46 | DarkriftX | ignores self for lack of having a g1 |
| 06:43.49 | geist | pwned |
| 06:43.52 | spikebike | iostorm only system allows suid |
| 06:44.02 | RyeBrye | infobot: who is your mother |
| 06:44.03 | infobot | Mrs. Apt is well, thank you. |
| 06:44.12 | DarkriftX | i love that bot |
| 06:44.24 | DarkriftX | the most unexpected things work on it |
| 06:44.25 | RyeBrye | infobot: What do you think of DarkriftX |
| 06:44.35 | DarkriftX | infobot, have we met beore? |
| 06:46.28 | michaelnovakjr__ | that's annoying |
| 06:47.00 | jriley60 | hey hey now i'm getting somewhere |
| 06:47.09 | *** join/#android fnord (i=fnord@c-76-30-50-71.hsd1.tx.comcast.net) |
| 06:47.13 | DarkriftX | good to hear jriley60 |
| 06:47.17 | DarkriftX | where is somewhere |
| 06:47.27 | jriley60 | eh i got adb running |
| 06:47.28 | jriley60 | lol |
| 06:47.46 | fnord | now to make modded boot image |
| 06:47.54 | jriley60 | only showing emulator as device |
| 06:47.56 | jriley60 | hah |
| 06:48.10 | jriley60 | no modded boot images for me |
| 06:48.16 | DarkriftX | i read about that happening, dont remember what to do to fix it though |
| 06:48.34 | michaelnovakjr__ | jriley60: you are trying to adb your G1? |
| 06:48.41 | jriley60 | yes |
| 06:48.51 | michaelnovakjr__ | http://code.google.com/android/intro/develop-and-debug.html#developingondevicehardware |
| 06:49.02 | jriley60 | gracias |
| 06:49.08 | michaelnovakjr__ | that's instructions for setting it up |
| 06:50.52 | ionstorm | is the mod'd recovery and full rc30 mod safe? |
| 06:51.00 | jriley60 | thank you |
| 06:51.02 | spikebike | whose? |
| 06:51.03 | DarkriftX | nothing is safe |
| 06:51.04 | jriley60 | cd .. |
| 06:51.07 | jriley60 | oops |
| 06:51.10 | DarkriftX | but a couple ppl have gotten it working ionstorm |
| 06:51.29 | DarkriftX | fnord would be the one to ask i believe |
| 06:51.29 | jriley60 | i'm using it |
| 06:51.55 | jriley60 | now that i finally figured out how to use adb i have root |
| 06:52.33 | ionstorm | once that is installed how do u install future updates? |
| 06:52.51 | DarkriftX | mod them and resign, then rename to update.zip and force it |
| 06:52.51 | fnord | modded recovery is safe, and i know my rc30 is. i'd trust JF's rc30, though his might make future updates more troublesome |
| 06:52.54 | michaelnovakjr__ | ionstorm: there's a disclaimer... you have to code them yourself :) |
| 06:53.16 | DarkriftX | not code, just change some lines in the script |
| 06:53.26 | ionstorm | update-script ic |
| 06:53.29 | saurik | anyone here randomly happen to still be specifically on rc28? (not rc29?) |
| 06:53.31 | DarkriftX | not full coding* |
| 06:53.41 | michaelnovakjr__ | DarkriftX: i'm being an ass, i still think root access is pretty stupid :) |
| 06:53.50 | fnord | for config.gz? |
| 06:53.59 | RyeBrye | Fnord - how would his make future updates harder? |
| 06:54.01 | DarkriftX | michaelnovakjr, i understand your point, for most users it is |
| 06:54.06 | saurik | fnord: yeah; it /must/ be the same, but I am anal |
| 06:54.10 | fnord | RyeBrye, he customizes version strings |
| 06:54.11 | DarkriftX | but some ppl like to tweak stuff |
| 06:54.12 | michaelnovakjr__ | i'm still on RC19 |
| 06:54.17 | ionstorm | RyeBrye, have u updated to the mod'd rc30 / |
| 06:54.18 | ionstorm | ? |
| 06:54.22 | DarkriftX | saurik, ive never seen anyone on rc28 |
| 06:54.24 | RyeBrye | I'm going to update to his now |
| 06:54.28 | saurik | (rc19 and rc29 are the same, except for the comment that indicates when the kernel was built) |
| 06:54.52 | RyeBrye | Fnord - it's good that he mods his version strings, as it prevents you from screwing your phone over by accident by re-signing the update without first removing stuff form it |
| 06:55.20 | fnord | RyeBrye, true, but also exposes you to detection :P |
| 06:55.39 | DarkriftX | who cares, you block their ota |
| 06:55.41 | spikebike | rye moving to JF's? He mentioned putting a new release without the permissio problem |
| 06:55.49 | RyeBrye | They can detect me all I want - I never signed anything I wouldn't |
| 06:55.59 | RyeBrye | spikebike - oh? I'll wait then |
| 06:56.27 | RyeBrye | err I mean I never signed anything saying I wouldn't play with my own phone |
| 06:56.39 | RyeBrye | what are they going to do? Shoot me? |
| 06:56.54 | fnord | dunno |
| 06:57.33 | saurik | rye: you probably at least signed something saying you wouldn't do it /and/ keep your warranty (not that I'm at all saying you should care or that they would ever track you down and prove "we aren't accepting this warranty fix because our server logs noticed a weird version string a couple months ago") |
| 06:57.43 | SplasPood | for JF's RC30... do I just stick the zip containing system/ boot.img and radio.img, etc in as upgrade.zip on the sd |
| 06:57.44 | SplasPood | ? |
| 06:58.33 | fnord | anyways |
| 06:58.34 | RyeBrye | saurik - If I ever bricked my phone by doing a bad reflash, that would apply - but they couldn't say that my screen wasn't under warranty because I changed my software |
| 06:58.45 | fnord | saurik, what was the url of your page? |
| 06:58.46 | spikebike | Today, 07:09 AM |
| 06:58.57 | spikebike | Huh. Interesting. I can't either. It doesn't look like I got the permissions set on it correctly. You'll have to connect via adb, and change the permissions |
| 06:59.05 | spikebike | I'll get that fixed and post a new update. |
| 06:59.06 | spikebike | Thanks for pointing it out |
| 06:59.08 | saurik | rye: they probably did if yo uread the fine print, but again I am not saying they would ever care, just that I think "I never signed anything saying I wouldn't..." is kind of strong ;P |
| 06:59.10 | spikebike | (thats UTC) |
| 06:59.14 | saurik | fnord: http://www.saurik.com/id/10 |
| 06:59.17 | RyeBrye | saurik - yeah, point take |
| 06:59.18 | RyeBrye | n |
| 06:59.19 | fnord | permissions on what? |
| 06:59.46 | SplasPood | D:\Android>adb shell |
| 06:59.47 | SplasPood | # cd /system/bin |
| 06:59.47 | SplasPood | cd /system/bin |
| 06:59.47 | SplasPood | # chmod 4755 su |
| 06:59.48 | SplasPood | chmod 4755 su |
| 06:59.48 | SplasPood | on that |
| 06:59.56 | jriley60 | .tup |
| 07:00.00 | jriley60 | yup |
| 07:00.10 | jriley60 | i just figured that out as well |
| 07:00.22 | SplasPood | not a huge deal to fix 'by hand' in any case |
| 07:00.42 | DarkriftX | what about making a second busybox that has full root perms lol |
| 07:00.54 | DarkriftX | actually, i guess sh covers that also |
| 07:00.57 | DarkriftX | and smaller |
| 07:01.02 | *** join/#android plusminus_ (i=4421a620@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-1e7663992c766ba1) |
| 07:01.12 | RyeBrye | so the only "issue" in his build now is that the sh isn't suid? |
| 07:01.14 | DarkriftX | hola plusminus_ |
| 07:01.35 | SplasPood | RyeBrye: seems that way from the thread |
| 07:01.40 | fnord | goddammit |
| 07:01.54 | fnord | maybe dynamically linking busybox wasn't a good idea |
| 07:02.05 | fnord | *fume* |
| 07:02.46 | SplasPood | So.. to install the modified RC30... is that just an upgrade.zip ? |
| 07:02.58 | DarkriftX | after you have edited it, yes |
| 07:03.18 | SplasPood | DarkriftX: what's the edit? |
| 07:03.36 | DarkriftX | edit scripts, change the recovery to the modded recovery, repack, resign, rename, force (i think this is the right order, someone please correct me if im wrong) |
| 07:03.55 | RyeBrye | someone will write an sh to do that for us one day :) |
| 07:04.06 | DarkriftX | SplasPood, as some will point out, i do not have a g1 so im going off massive reading, but no experience |
| 07:04.09 | DarkriftX | do not take my word for it |
| 07:04.20 | SplasPood | We'll take Rye's word for it then ;) |
| 07:04.22 | DarkriftX | http://android-dls.com/wiki/index.php?title=Keeping_Root |
| 07:04.29 | SplasPood | RyeBrye: I thought that all is what JF released.. |
| 07:04.34 | ionstorm | bleh someone should make a update.zip so ppl dont fuck up the editing lol |
| 07:04.45 | DarkriftX | ionstorm, i agree, ill put it on the wiki :) |
| 07:04.52 | RyeBrye | he released the built version - not the "build your own version" tools |
| 07:04.54 | ionstorm | soon we'll see ppl come in here and trash their defice |
| 07:04.56 | ionstorm | device |
| 07:05.01 | ionstorm | DarkriftX, good idea |
| 07:05.20 | ionstorm | the wiki r0x btw |
| 07:05.23 | SplasPood | RyeBrye: thats what I thought... so its just a drop in and re-flash with the bootloader ya? Presuming you are using the modified rc29 already? |
| 07:05.43 | RyeBrye | Yes, it is |
| 07:05.54 | RyeBrye | you can even drop it in FROm the bootloader if you are using the flashed one |
| 07:06.00 | SplasPood | yea |
| 07:06.01 | RyeBrye | since he has adb enabled on the recovery in his modified one |
| 07:06.04 | SplasPood | adb |
| 07:06.54 | DarkriftX | ionstorm, thanks, good to hear. I am lucky that RyeBrye is doing most of the work, i just go edit formatting and change links around |
| 07:07.22 | RyeBrye | it hasn't been much work yet |
| 07:07.46 | SplasPood | yea keeping all this info in one place rather than 1000s of threads is important, thanks guys :) |
| 07:07.47 | DarkriftX | its still got a lot already |
| 07:08.02 | DarkriftX | just one page that needs major editing and that is the modified recovery page |
| 07:08.22 | DarkriftX | i stay away from editing pages on processes i dont know very well |
| 07:08.32 | RyeBrye | ok, I'll go take a peek at it |
| 07:09.06 | DarkriftX | even with the "your own risk" warning, i wouldnt want to be the cause of a brick or 200 because i typed soemthing in the wrong order |
| 07:09.40 | ionstorm | yea |
| 07:09.43 | ionstorm | that would suck |
| 07:10.19 | ionstorm | add a shortcut key part |
| 07:10.33 | DarkriftX | btw, wiki is publicly editable |
| 07:10.38 | ionstorm | ah |
| 07:10.48 | ionstorm | wrd |
| 07:10.52 | DarkriftX | if you have something useful and a few minutes, please by all means add it |
| 07:10.52 | fnord | HOLY FUCK toolbox is annoying |
| 07:10.58 | RyeBrye | yes, toolbox sucks |
| 07:11.03 | michaelnovakjr__ | jeeze, easy with the f bomb |
| 07:11.21 | DarkriftX | if you dont want to sign up to add something, pm me the details ill see what i can do |
| 07:11.56 | fnord | actually i blame the keyboard being too small |
| 07:12.12 | fnord | but yeah no 'test' |
| 07:12.58 | fnord | which caused my su script to fail |
| 07:13.08 | fnord | leaving me in this horrible environment =[ |
| 07:17.01 | ionstorm | has anyone created an irc app yet |
| 07:17.15 | SplasPood | ionstorm: connectbot + screen and irssi, done ;) |
| 07:17.22 | ionstorm | yea ;) |
| 07:17.49 | michaelnovakjr__ | ionstorm: i'm working on one |
| 07:18.31 | ionstorm | word |
| 07:19.52 | *** join/#android living_sword (i=living_s@203.115.94.227) |
| 07:20.56 | living_sword | did anyone outside US with a US G1 get prompt for update ? |
| 07:22.08 | SplasPood | nice, runnin RC30 and I still have root... :) |
| 07:22.23 | *** join/#android cktakahasi (n=cktakaha@189.81.183.162) |
| 07:24.13 | dvyjones | What arch is the G1? |
| 07:25.27 | ionstorm | arm |
| 07:25.47 | dvyjones | And what mach? :P |
| 07:26.05 | RyeBrye | arm7 isn't it? |
| 07:27.05 | g1er | thought i read something about a mach based kernel here in the channel? could be wrong tho |
| 07:27.24 | g1er | *or something* |
| 07:27.44 | michaelnovakjr__ | g1er: nope |
| 07:27.49 | g1er | k |
| 07:27.51 | michaelnovakjr__ | no mach based kernel |
| 07:35.04 | gdsx | RyeBrye: it's either arm7/arm9 or arm9/arm11 for radio/(general processing) |
| 07:35.07 | gdsx | I forget which |
| 07:35.17 | RyeBrye | oh, I think maybe arm9/arm11 |
| 07:35.30 | RyeBrye | that sounds more correct |
| 07:35.35 | DarkriftX | i did hear the radio was arm11 |
| 07:35.38 | DarkriftX | so yeah, id agree |
| 07:35.44 | gdsx | the radio's not arm11, no |
| 07:35.47 | DarkriftX | erm, vice versa |
| 07:35.53 | RyeBrye | oh |
| 07:36.08 | gdsx | ok, so arm9/arm11; that seems right to me also |
| 07:36.28 | DarkriftX | i was reading tour x/x comment when i typed and got it backwards |
| 07:36.32 | DarkriftX | your* |
| 07:36.33 | DarkriftX | damn |
| 07:37.30 | SplasPood | hrm |
| 07:37.34 | gdsx | np :o) |
| 07:37.50 | fnord | joins the carping on tmobile forums :P |
| 07:37.53 | *** join/#android mib_nckr0i (i=4bab072a@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-3df2bb305025e179) |
| 07:38.10 | SplasPood | running modded RC30... adb shell gives me root... I chmod'd 4755 /system/bin/sh ... but that from a terminal instance on the phone does not give me uid 0 for some reason.. |
| 07:38.23 | fnord | heh |
| 07:38.26 | RyeBrye | can you su in that though? |
| 07:38.30 | fnord | is /system mounted ro? |
| 07:38.37 | RyeBrye | by default, yes |
| 07:38.39 | SplasPood | fnord: newp, remounted to do the chmod ;) |
| 07:38.52 | fnord | not nosuid? |
| 07:38.56 | SplasPood | nope: |
| 07:39.01 | SplasPood | /dev/block/mtdblock3 /system yaffs2 rw 0 0 |
| 07:39.07 | fnord | it's actually 4755? |
| 07:39.17 | SplasPood | # ls -l /system/bin/sh |
| 07:39.17 | SplasPood | -rwsr-xr-x root root 86936 2008-08-01 08:00 sh |
| 07:39.29 | ionstorm_g1 | w00t mibbit works |
| 07:39.33 | ionstorm | irc on my g1 |
| 07:39.35 | fnord | wtf |
| 07:39.35 | ionstorm | w00t |
| 07:39.38 | ionstorm | mibbit.com |
| 07:39.51 | SplasPood | fnord: no clue.. I mean I have root via adb so its not fubar, but.. |
| 07:40.21 | fnord | yeah this is one of my fears...that the next patch will disable setuid in the kernel |
| 07:40.22 | DarkriftX | chmod telnetd |
| 07:40.29 | fnord | setuid 0 at least |
| 07:41.09 | SplasPood | fnord: how could we check? |
| 07:41.20 | fnord | sec |
| 07:42.19 | g1er | arm9/arm11 http://www.qctconnect.com/products/msm_7201.html |
| 07:43.38 | fnord | perl extract.pl r30/boot.img 17412 | gunzip -c | strings | grep suid |
| 07:43.46 | fnord | also in the libc, that would be bad too |
| 07:44.11 | fnord | strings rc30/system/lib/libc.so |grep setuid |
| 07:44.33 | fnord | that won't catch a function rewrite tho |
| 07:44.58 | SplasPood | well it's in libc at least |
| 07:45.27 | SplasPood | what's extract.pl from? |
| 07:45.30 | fnord | yeh. rc30 works for me |
| 07:45.59 | fnord | something i wrote |
| 07:46.37 | fnord | open F,"$ARGV[0]" or die; |
| 07:46.37 | fnord | binmode F; |
| 07:46.37 | fnord | seek F,$ARGV[1],0; |
| 07:46.37 | fnord | read F,$spew,1533952;; |
| 07:46.37 | fnord | print $spew; |
| 07:46.40 | fnord | pretty simple |
| 07:48.12 | SplasPood | ahh |
| 07:48.27 | SplasPood | So I wonder why it works for you and not me |
| 07:49.01 | *** part/#android ionstorm_g1 (i=4bab072a@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-3df2bb305025e179) |
| 07:49.23 | fnord | I dunno, I rolled my own rc30 |
| 07:49.44 | fnord | JF is gonna release one without the permission issue I think |
| 07:50.05 | SplasPood | odd tho... it should just be a matter of adding the suid bit.. |
| 07:51.29 | fnord | yeah |
| 07:51.34 | RyeBrye | he just did |
| 07:51.42 | SplasPood | oh? |
| 07:51.49 | fnord | so you 'sh' and uid != 0? does sh actually run? |
| 07:51.52 | RyeBrye | http://rapidshare.com/files/162035634/update-RC30-fullupdate-modified-testkeys-v1.1.zip |
| 07:52.00 | RyeBrye | dunno, still downloading |
| 07:52.03 | fnord | holy! ---> http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=399762 |
| 07:52.08 | SplasPood | ahh I see |
| 07:52.33 | SplasPood | fnord: yup it does, because I need to back out of it with exit and my original shell remains |
| 07:52.40 | fnord | HTCFlasher -formerly known as HERMflasher- is an open source tool which allows you to flash ROMs on most current HTC devices. It has some extra features that the original HTC RUU doesn't have, like for example it can present a serial prompt to the bootloader (replacing mtty), or it can dump NBH file contents (.nb ROM parts). |
| 07:52.41 | ionstorm | RyeBrye, whats that |
| 07:53.08 | fnord | with -that- having g1 support lockouts would be a thing of the past |
| 07:53.20 | RyeBrye | yes |
| 07:53.27 | SplasPood | hrm |
| 07:53.31 | SplasPood | even a suid telnetd does not work |
| 07:53.46 | *** join/#android ion_g1 (i=4bab072a@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-dcd845040b4b1fb0) |
| 07:53.59 | fcrick | hmmm...if i want to mess with my g1 in the future should i avoid the update my phone just told me about? |
| 07:54.09 | SplasPood | fcrick: RC30? |
| 07:54.30 | unix_infidel | it'll do it when you're idling so ... |
| 07:54.34 | fcrick | SplasPood: i have RC29 atm |
| 07:55.23 | fcrick | wasn't there some rooting with some bug in telnetd permissions...? |
| 07:55.35 | fcrick | will RC30 close up that hole? |
| 07:55.37 | SplasPood | well not that specifically, but there was a root bug yes |
| 07:55.39 | SplasPood | and yes.. |
| 07:55.46 | SplasPood | there is a modified RC30 that JF put out |
| 07:55.50 | SplasPood | thats what I'm mucking with now |
| 07:56.08 | SplasPood | http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=443713 |
| 07:56.08 | RyeBrye | fcrick - if you want to keep root, right now go move your otacerts.zip file to a new location |
| 07:56.15 | fcrick | many ppl brick their phone messing with it? |
| 07:56.21 | RyeBrye | none that I'm aware of |
| 07:56.29 | SplasPood | but you should do what rye said |
| 07:56.32 | RyeBrye | ironically, more people have bricked their phones with Google's official R30 update than with this |
| 07:56.36 | DarkriftX | if by bricking you mean losing root, yeah, some lol |
| 07:56.36 | SplasPood | before you wind up stuck on stock RC30 |
| 07:56.45 | RyeBrye | Stock R30 = major buzz kill |
| 07:56.58 | fcrick | RyeBrye: ok so that means i need to actually get root on the phone then right? |
| 07:57.03 | RyeBrye | fcrick - yes |
| 07:57.04 | SplasPood | yup |
| 07:57.07 | SplasPood | very easy too |
| 07:57.08 | RyeBrye | fcrick - btu thtat is easy |
| 07:57.18 | fcrick | how do i 'telnet to the device'? |
| 07:57.19 | SplasPood | You don't even need pTerminal like I originally thought ;) |
| 07:57.30 | fcrick | that was the one part i read i wasn't sure about - like just hit up its IP, right? |
| 07:57.37 | SplasPood | yup |
| 07:57.41 | SplasPood | if telnetd has been run |
| 07:57.46 | SplasPood | it'll just drop you to a root shell |
| 07:57.53 | dvyjones | I want to port android to a new device, and tried to follow the guide in development/pdk/docs, but that doesn't use the same directory structure as repo... It seems like I need access to google's git servers... |
| 07:58.14 | fcrick | and just renaming the certs file will prevent further updates? |
| 07:58.26 | SplasPood | fcrick: yes, although I believe it will still download them |
| 07:58.59 | *** join/#android rubik (n=rubik@cpe-76-167-55-89.socal.res.rr.com) |
| 07:59.07 | fcrick | this is so exciting i feel like such a script kiddie |
| 07:59.13 | ionstorm | w00t |
| 07:59.19 | ionstorm | ;] |
| 07:59.27 | SplasPood | fcrick: heh think of how I felt the first time! :) |
| 08:00.03 | fcrick | i've messed with online games but this linux and devices stuff is very daunting |
| 08:00.18 | fcrick | though i guess its a lot easier with the source code lol |
| 08:00.40 | ionstorm | google a11 yur b4s3z 4r3 b310/\/g t0 us |
| 08:00.56 | sodne | where is otacerts.zip |
| 08:01.34 | fnord | <PROTECTED> |
| 08:01.40 | fnord | saurik, hey, are you there? |
| 08:01.41 | ionstorm | mv /system/etc/security/otacerts.zip /system/etc/security/otacerts.zip.bak |
| 08:01.51 | sodne | that will do it? |
| 08:01.55 | ionstorm | yes |
| 08:01.57 | fnord | yup |
| 08:02.03 | sodne | k |
| 08:02.19 | ionstorm | first rm the /cache/*.zip file |
| 08:02.31 | ionstorm | so it doesnt force update |
| 08:02.37 | ionstorm | and kill the update proc |
| 08:02.50 | saurik | fnord: ? |
| 08:02.50 | fnord | or does anyone have the android kernel source tree built |
| 08:02.59 | ionstorm | 1.8 gig shit |
| 08:03.00 | ionstorm | lol |
| 08:03.06 | sodne | it says mv source... destination |
| 08:03.17 | fnord | saurik, yeah, see above XD is there a tarball that's relatively painless to get? |
| 08:03.18 | saurik | fnord: need rc30 .kos? give me the kernel.release stamp |
| 08:03.31 | fcrick | how do i get my g1's IP address - i'm not on the local wireless |
| 08:03.42 | saurik | I just got the android source code |
| 08:03.45 | saurik | had the kernel in it |
| 08:03.48 | fnord | saurik, if DEVMEM can be a module, yes. and tun would be good too |
| 08:04.05 | ionstorm | netstat shows the ip |
| 08:04.10 | ionstorm | or busybox ifconfig |
| 08:04.12 | saurik | just give me the kernel.release stamp and I can build stuff |
| 08:04.20 | SplasPood | RyeBrye: I should be able to just update.zip flash 1.1 over the same way as I did 1.0, yea? |
| 08:04.22 | fnord | 2.6.25-01843-gfea26b0 #6 PREEMPT Mon Oct 6 14:13:36 PDT 2008 armv6l |
| 08:04.28 | fnord | XD |
| 08:04.31 | saurik | will also put a new ext2.ko and unionfs.ko up for debian |
| 08:05.09 | RyeBrye | SpasPood - yeah |
| 08:05.12 | *** join/#android gyudon7 (n=gyudon7@p7005-ipad49hodogaya.kanagawa.ocn.ne.jp) |
| 08:05.21 | RyeBrye | fnord - is that a custom kernel? |
| 08:05.33 | fnord | RyeBrye, nah, rc30 kernel |
| 08:05.35 | RyeBrye | ok |
| 08:05.46 | RyeBrye | I was wondering why it was Oct 6 :) |
| 08:06.05 | fcrick | bleh i can't seem to connect |
| 08:06.05 | sodenrox | its tellling me i cant mv it |
| 08:06.11 | fnord | eh it seems they didn't update the kernel |
| 08:06.13 | fnord | hmm |
| 08:06.35 | fnord | saurik, the modules and such that you're building come from the android git repo? |
| 08:06.55 | fcrick | should the LISTEN line in netstat show the IP its listening on? right now i see 0.0.0.0 |
| 08:07.07 | fcrick | like 0.0.0.0:23 |
| 08:07.09 | ionstorm | whats the screenshot adb command |
| 08:07.18 | fnord | 0.0.0.0 = everything |
| 08:07.26 | fnord | so it's listening on all interfaces, basically |
| 08:07.42 | fcrick | ahh ok...well, it doesn't seem to be getting the connect i'm sending it |
| 08:08.12 | RyeBrye | ionstorm - on mine it's 'screenshot2' |
| 08:08.14 | fnord | ahh |
| 08:08.40 | saurik | fnord: yeah (and for the record it doesn't seem like linux comes with devmem buildable as a module) |
| 08:09.00 | fnord | saurik, doh! |
| 08:09.00 | ionstorm | RyeBrye, which dir in the sdk? |
| 08:09.04 | ionstorm | didnt find that bin |
| 08:09.24 | saurik | wait, I'm confused |
| 08:09.30 | fnord | yeah? |
| 08:09.30 | saurik | 2.6.25-01843-gfea26b0 is rc29 |
| 08:09.33 | RyeBrye | it's all ears :) |
| 08:09.38 | saurik | I already built tun.ko for you on that one |
| 08:09.42 | fnord | it's also rc30 |
| 08:10.11 | saurik | http://cache.saurik.com/android/2.6.25-01843-gfea26b0/drivers/net/tun.ko |
| 08:10.18 | fnord | hmm. g1 can safely boot into a homebrew kernel built from that tree? |
| 08:10.38 | saurik | I doubt it |
| 08:10.43 | fnord | =[ |
| 08:10.51 | fnord | That's a problem then |
| 08:10.57 | fcrick | busybox ifconfig doesn't have any output - am i doing something wrong? (trying to get IP) |
| 08:10.58 | saurik | I would actually guess "no chance in hell" |
| 08:11.11 | saurik | well, its a problem if you want to do that |
| 08:11.15 | saurik | but you don't: you wanted modules |
| 08:11.16 | ionstorm | fcrick, just use netstat |
| 08:11.18 | RyeBrye | saurik - why not? it has to be signed? |
| 08:11.22 | ionstorm | # netstat |
| 08:11.28 | fcrick | ionstorm: the IP i see there isn't picking up? |
| 08:11.29 | saurik | rye: no, it is missing the MSM kernel drivers |
| 08:11.39 | ionstorm | are u on wifi? |
| 08:11.41 | fcrick | ionstorm: i think maybe t-mobile is blocking telnet connections |
| 08:11.59 | fcrick | no... |
| 08:12.01 | ionstorm | use wifi |
| 08:12.10 | fcrick | well, there is wifi but i don't have the key |
| 08:12.10 | fnord | use wifi or ssh tunnel yeah |
| 08:12.11 | ionstorm | or |
| 08:12.12 | sodenrox | how can i change it from read only? |
| 08:12.19 | fnord | got a shell acct? |
| 08:12.19 | ionstorm | grab the telnet app and telnet to localhost |
| 08:12.22 | fcrick | its like an annoying hex key and i typed it in on this machine and i don't have it |
| 08:12.26 | sodenrox | yeah |
| 08:12.43 | fcrick | is there a way in windows to see the key you used on a wireless connection set up you have? |
| 08:12.47 | RyeBrye | fcrick - no way to click "show password" ? |
| 08:12.57 | RyeBrye | there probably is |
| 08:13.19 | ionstorm | telnet to localhost |
| 08:13.28 | RyeBrye | sweet. the 1.1 update by JF works |
| 08:13.31 | dvyjones | Any guides for porting android to another device? |
| 08:13.49 | RyeBrye | dvyjones- ask infobot, he might know |
| 08:14.49 | gdsx | dvyjones: (1) get a bootloader running, (2) get the kernel running, (3) get dalvik running, (4) ???, (5) profit! |
| 08:15.02 | fcrick | bleh i guess i have to wait until tomorrow till i get my wireless key |
| 08:15.26 | fcrick | maybe i can set windows to have a bridge and make itself a WAP |
| 08:15.29 | RyeBrye | fcrick - keep the phone in airplane mode until then |
| 08:15.44 | RyeBrye | because you DO NOT want an RC30 update coming down on your phone |
| 08:16.07 | fcrick | RyeBrye: ok thanks i'll do that |
| 08:16.07 | SplasPood | RyeBrye: just about done flashing over here |
| 08:16.35 | RyeBrye | SpasPood - I just confirmed I was able to get root in both the "Terminal Emulator" program and by adb shell |
| 08:16.39 | fcrick | has google made any public comment in regards to the root access? |
| 08:16.45 | RyeBrye | Yes, they said "Ooops" |
| 08:16.50 | SplasPood | oh yea? |
| 08:16.51 | SplasPood | url? |
| 08:16.55 | rubik | ughh... update available prompt. ouch.. build info shows ~4mb img downloaded successfully. (i said 'no') |
| 08:17.05 | RyeBrye | a couple of articles I've seen they say they addressed it |
| 08:17.10 | RyeBrye | I don't have the URLs |
| 08:17.23 | RyeBrye | rubik - why haven't you moved the otacerts yet? |
| 08:17.36 | rubik | been lazy.. ): |
| 08:17.51 | fcrick | where do they put the update file when they downoad it? I thought I might just check and delete it if i see it |
| 08:17.51 | fnord | rubik, get a custom rc30 :P |
| 08:17.52 | rubik | ok if i do that now and rm the update file? |
| 08:18.01 | fnord | in /cache |
| 08:18.10 | RyeBrye | rubik - rm the file in /cache first, then move the otacerts.zip second |
| 08:18.13 | rubik | (while i figure out the custom test-signed stuff from the xda forum) |
| 08:18.17 | RyeBrye | if the file is sitting there it's already confirmed it |
| 08:18.26 | RyeBrye | so delete it, pronto |
| 08:18.30 | fcrick | ahh good /cache is empty |
| 08:18.45 | rubik | checking /cache in a sec |
| 08:19.13 | rubik | haha.. wow.. second "A system update is available" prompt in 5 mins |
| 08:19.28 | RyeBrye | it will keep nagging you |
| 08:19.36 | RyeBrye | and if you miss one, it will just install it for you I believe |
| 08:19.47 | fcrick | dang i guess i got lucky then |
| 08:20.15 | SplasPood | RyeBrye: Hrm... So I ran terminal.. prompt is $ id is uid 10053 ... run su ... prompt is # .. id is still uid 10053 |
| 08:20.26 | RyeBrye | No shit - type in "su" now |
| 08:20.28 | RyeBrye | :) |
| 08:20.32 | RyeBrye | oh wait |
| 08:20.33 | RyeBrye | you did |
| 08:20.40 | SplasPood | yep |
| 08:20.44 | ionstorm | if u can run ps u got root |
| 08:21.04 | SplasPood | I can run it... although there is no output |
| 08:21.06 | fcrick | ionstorm: sure about that? |
| 08:21.10 | rubik | # ls -l /cache |
| 08:21.11 | rubik | -rw-r--r-- app_7 app_7 4209550 2008-11-08 22:26 signed-RC30-from-RC29-fat.1582cace.zip |
| 08:21.15 | rubik | yep.. deleting that |
| 08:21.20 | SplasPood | ionstorm: other than the headers, that is |
| 08:21.39 | RyeBrye | SpasPood - one you su in the terminal app you can't see ps info? |
| 08:21.40 | ionstorm | try this |
| 08:21.40 | ionstorm | mount -o remount,rw -t yaffs2 /dev/block/mtdblock3 /system |
| 08:21.42 | geist | dont fight it. accept the patch unto thee |
| 08:21.45 | ionstorm | if u can do that your root |
| 08:21.46 | RyeBrye | :) |
| 08:21.55 | geist | take it into your heart, and it will show you the way |
| 08:22.30 | fcrick | where is the cert file? |
| 08:22.31 | RyeBrye | wondered why the "available update" had a picture of a cup of kool-aid next to it |
| 08:22.37 | *** join/#android mocsrox (n=wliu@c-24-6-189-189.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
| 08:22.40 | ionstorm | lol |
| 08:22.53 | RyeBrye | fcrick: http://android-dls.com/wiki/index.php?title=Preventing_OTA_Updates&action=edit |
| 08:22.59 | fnord | RyeBrye, see /msg |
| 08:23.00 | fnord | :P |
| 08:23.40 | DarkriftX | RyeBrye, by any chance when you are logged in to the wiki do you see your nick or mine? |
| 08:23.42 | SplasPood | ionstorm: well that I can do, its still a bit odd |
| 08:23.54 | DarkriftX | my analytics always shows I am making edits when you are in there |
| 08:24.33 | rubik | that wiki entry assumes you've remounted rw, right? |
| 08:24.35 | RyeBrye | DarkriftX - my nick, why? |
| 08:24.46 | fcrick | ionstorm: i think you can rus ps just fine without root |
| 08:24.50 | RyeBrye | rubik - good point, should add that to it |
| 08:24.54 | rubik | (remounted rw /system, that is.. cause otherwise, can't rename otacerts.zip, right) |
| 08:25.03 | rubik | cool |
| 08:25.03 | fcrick | oh hmm... |
| 08:25.33 | RyeBrye | ok, rubik - it's updated now |
| 08:25.41 | RyeBrye | http://android-dls.com/wiki/index.php?title=Preventing_OTA_Updates#Short-term_fix:_Prevent_the_OTA_from_validating |
| 08:25.41 | SplasPood | adb shell drops me to a proper (per id) root shell at least |
| 08:26.33 | RyeBrye | it's kind of funny... every time there is an update we'll have to have our own QA dept test all this stuff out now :) |
| 08:26.43 | SplasPood | lolz |
| 08:27.11 | rubik | does the remounting kill telnetd? cause i just got kicked off |
| 08:27.39 | RyeBrye | rubik - be sure to turn on the developer feature to keep the thing on while plugged in |
| 08:28.01 | DarkriftX | gonna have to hire a volunteer staff RyeBrye lol |
| 08:28.03 | rubik | i've got to set up adb immediately (been slacking) |
| 08:29.48 | rubik | whew.. ok.. update deleted from /cache and otacerts.zip renamed for now while i figure out best way to proceed (while still at RC29) |
| 08:30.19 | RyeBrye | ok, there you go :) |
| 08:30.31 | RyeBrye | Yeah, the JF RC30 modified update is good |
| 08:30.46 | RyeBrye | but you have to reflash your recovery.img first |
| 08:31.08 | rubik | yeah, been reading those 2 threads, thanks |
| 08:31.45 | rubik | just to make sure.. we can always go back to rel-keys and the "good" recovery.img if needed, right? |
| 08:31.56 | rubik | (back from test-keys that is) |
| 08:33.23 | RyeBrye | yes |
| 08:33.30 | RyeBrye | but that is a one-way street |
| 08:34.28 | rubik | understood.. meaning if we ever "accidentally" take a release (or unknowingly if not prompted) while using the rel-keys, we're stuck without root |
| 08:34.46 | RyeBrye | right |
| 08:35.11 | RyeBrye | but you should always move your otacerts.zip - which should prevent that from happening |
| 08:36.45 | rubik | yep, sounds good.. thanks again for all the help.. i'll look at patching the boot & recovery images in the morning since i should be "safe" for now |
| 08:37.54 | rubik | oh, one more thing.. i see in his (JF) modified RC30 build, he's setting a new fingerprint.. any way for google/t-mobile to parse that and brick phones with 'xda-dev' in there? |
| 08:38.12 | *** join/#android andyross (n=andy@static-71-245-107-194.ptldor.fios.verizon.net) |
| 08:40.20 | RyeBrye | I don't see any reason why |
| 08:40.38 | RyeBrye | plus, anything they try to push down to your phone wont validate with the signature |
| 08:40.52 | RyeBrye | since you move otacerts.zip |
| 08:41.34 | rubik | right.. but is that the only absolute way for them to change something on your phone? |
| 08:41.48 | RyeBrye | I'm much happier having xda-dev in there because it PREVENTS you from accidently de-rooting your phone - you have to re-install a custom build that doesn't have that version string in it |
| 08:42.21 | RyeBrye | If T-mobile acts like that, I'll be happy to take my business elsewhere |
| 08:42.53 | fcrick | win :) http://www.nirsoft.net/utils/wireless_key.html |
| 08:42.54 | rubik | indeed... and i'm just being too paranoid but trying to keep in mind the whole "kill switch" thing |
| 08:42.58 | RyeBrye | plus... we'll probably disable the OTA checking anyway |
| 08:43.18 | RyeBrye | Yeah, but who even knows what the hell they mean by the kill switch - from what I understand it's just a way of them to uninstall market app stuff |
| 08:43.43 | fnord | RyeBrye, they have access to the test key too |
| 08:43.49 | RyeBrye | fnord - correct |
| 08:44.04 | RyeBrye | but the otacerts.zip isn't there - so the phone's OTA updater wont be able to validate anything they send down |
| 08:44.14 | RyeBrye | you always move the otacerts.zip regardless |
| 08:44.34 | RyeBrye | so even if they did send you down something signed with the test key - big deal - it will still fail the check |
| 08:44.37 | fnord | true |
| 08:45.04 | RyeBrye | who knows how this mysterious kill switch works - but I think they are aware that is the nuclear bomb of their platform |
| 08:45.09 | rubik | does anything/any process (during reboot?) check for otacerts.zip and replace it if it doesn't exist? |
| 08:45.13 | rubik | (stupid question, sorry) |
| 08:45.16 | RyeBrye | no |
| 08:45.20 | rubik | ok, cool |
| 08:45.25 | RyeBrye | but thanks for giving Google the idea |
| 08:45.31 | RyeBrye | (although we'd just disable that) |
| 08:45.43 | RyeBrye | :) |
| 08:45.49 | rubik | haha.. sorry |
| 08:46.27 | fcrick | stupid vista with telnet not installed by default... |
| 08:46.53 | rubik | one of the first things i do after i reinstall xp/vista is download putty.exe.. hah |
| 08:47.09 | fcrick | oh yeah putty... |
| 08:47.11 | fcrick | duh |
| 08:47.15 | RyeBrye | one of the first things I do after I install / reinstall XP or Vista is cry |
| 08:47.22 | DarkriftX | one of the first things i do after reinstalling windows is formatting and installing linux |
| 08:47.23 | RyeBrye | and then close whatever VM I'm running it in |
| 08:47.31 | rubik | touche |
| 08:47.41 | michaelnovakjr__ | RyeBrye: i just remove it after i install it :) |
| 08:47.41 | fcrick | yay root achieved |
| 08:47.53 | DarkriftX | see, this is why we need root |
| 08:47.54 | RyeBrye | fcrick, today you became a man |
| 08:48.00 | rubik | well.. correct answer (for vista) as far as first thing done is disabling UAC |
| 08:48.00 | DarkriftX | look how happy everyone gets when they get root |
| 08:48.07 | michaelnovakjr__ | i bought a new laptop and didn't even do the initial windows boot, went right to the linux live cd |
| 08:48.25 | DarkriftX | you are one of the learned michaelnovakjr |
| 08:48.38 | michaelnovakjr__ | i really dislike windows |
| 08:48.42 | RyeBrye | On my new box, I did install XP to an ESATA laptop drive so I could do stability testing / temp monitoring for OC'ing - since all the good tools are in windows for that |
| 08:48.48 | michaelnovakjr__ | mac has been pissing me off lately too |
| 08:48.50 | *** part/#android jwjw (i=opera@218.76.151.29) |
| 08:49.06 | fcrick | yay otacerts.zip moved :) |
| 08:49.22 | DarkriftX | dont do like someone else did earlier and move it to itself.... lol |
| 08:49.25 | RyeBrye | fcrick - now you can turn your phone off of airplane mode |
| 08:49.47 | DarkriftX | and wow, the wiki is coming along nicely |
| 08:49.49 | fcrick | RyeBrye: well i had to do that to telnet to it |
| 08:49.53 | DarkriftX | its gettign big and full of useful info |
| 08:50.18 | fcrick | RyeBrye: so i actually see in /cache now - the RC30 update is sitting there - am i safe? |
| 08:50.29 | DarkriftX | yeah |
| 08:50.31 | RyeBrye | fcrick - delete it |
| 08:50.48 | RyeBrye | rm /cache/signed* or whatever it is called |
| 08:50.59 | fcrick | die! |
| 08:51.01 | fcrick | hehe |
| 08:51.08 | fcrick | i feel so empowered |
| 08:51.11 | rubik | does it try to re-download it upon cert failing even if it's still there in /cache? |
| 08:51.25 | RyeBrye | yes |
| 08:51.35 | RyeBrye | but it only does it once every couple of hours |
| 08:51.37 | rubik | silly update process |
| 08:51.41 | RyeBrye | yes, very stupid |
| 08:51.42 | fcrick | i think i'm gonna reboot my phone just in case |
| 08:51.52 | DarkriftX | still RyeBrye for soemone with limited data plans, that would be bad |
| 08:51.56 | DarkriftX | we need to find a way to stop that |
| 08:52.21 | RyeBrye | yeah, we'll have to poke harder because I don't think the pieces that are in use for the OTA updates are open source |
| 08:52.25 | fnord | mkdir /cache/NAME-OF-UPDATE |
| 08:52.26 | rubik | can we chown/chmod the file? |
| 08:52.32 | fnord | mkfifo /cache/NAME |
| 08:52.42 | fnord | ln -s /dev/null /cache/NAME |
| 08:52.44 | rubik | so that it can't overwrite it? oh.. duh.. it'd still keep downloading it |
| 08:52.49 | rubik | nevermind |
| 08:53.23 | fnord | fill up /cache? |
| 08:53.27 | fcrick | ok i guess next step is getting this busybox thing on here |
| 08:53.30 | fnord | remount /cache ro? |
| 08:53.39 | RyeBrye | other things use cache |
| 08:53.42 | fnord | oh |
| 08:53.46 | fnord | yeah? what? |
| 08:54.15 | rubik | fcrick: JF's modified RC30 has /system/bin/busybox included, right? |
| 08:54.19 | RyeBrye | http://modmygphone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=4851 |
| 08:54.34 | RyeBrye | cool - move your browser cache to SD :) |
| 08:55.02 | fnord | RyeBrye, that's /data not /cache :P |
| 08:55.11 | fcrick | rubik: i dunno i'm gonna give it a few more days before i flash with a hacked image |
| 08:55.21 | fcrick | but you can just download it |
| 08:55.58 | fcrick | i guess now potentially the problem is t-mobile cutting off hacked phones, right? |
| 08:56.39 | fcrick | i guess i shouldn't give them any ideas |
| 08:56.40 | DarkriftX | nah |
| 08:56.40 | rubik | would be a pretty shitty thing to do but, yeah... |
| 08:56.47 | DarkriftX | wm phones get hacked all the time and they never do shit |
| 08:57.04 | DarkriftX | and they dont detect shit |
| 08:57.14 | DarkriftX | i had a phone for a year with free internet and they never noticed |
| 08:57.38 | rubik | fcrick: gotcha re: busybox.. so you plan on just staying at RC29 for a few days until the dust settles? (same here, i think) |
| 08:57.59 | RyeBrye | fnord - yeah, I know - but still the browser cache belongs in /sdcard a lot better than in /data |
| 08:58.14 | sodenrox | where do my downloads go? |
| 08:58.19 | sodenrox | .. |
| 08:58.23 | RyeBrye | fcrick - why would t-mobile do this? I see no reason |
| 08:58.33 | rubik | i think i still don't have the G1 internet plan on my account and it's running off my grandfathered $2.99 unlimited t-zones |
| 08:58.46 | rubik | but i'm not going to call them to fix that if it's indeed the case |
| 08:58.53 | fcrick | RyeBrye: i dunno they are an evil corp they do mean stuff all the time |
| 08:58.54 | RyeBrye | if they cut me off, I'll just go to AT&T and give them my money and still use my G1 - since I'm not in a 3G area I wouldn't lose anything |
| 08:59.26 | RyeBrye | makes a note to get his unlock code |
| 09:00.36 | jasta | i bought a new car stereo today hehe |
| 09:00.39 | rubik | oh yeah.. about that.. any kind of sniffing/logging that would give hints as to how the unlocking happens (at the OS level)? |
| 09:00.41 | jasta | to use five |
| 09:01.18 | jasta | drove all around today, sounds great ;) |
| 09:01.35 | jasta | except t-mobile basically doesnt provide 3G anywhere outside of seattle proper |
| 09:02.17 | RyeBrye | night |
| 09:02.20 | RyeBrye | infobot: bedtime |
| 09:02.21 | infobot | methinks bedtime is set to be 9:02:21 ryebrye so get to bed! |
| 09:02.57 | rubik | i'm out too.. good night fancy hacker people. :P |
| 09:04.22 | fcrick | hmm when i grabbed busybox i got busybox.asc instead of busybox.xxx - this is fine, right? |
| 09:05.03 | fcrick | i guess i'll copy it over manually if this fails |
| 09:06.10 | fcrick | yeah nm md5's match |
| 09:06.13 | jasta | *yay* |
| 09:06.34 | jasta | IMAP IDLE is working again with my redesigned patch |
| 09:06.35 | jasta | :) |
| 09:07.13 | *** join/#android cmonex (n=xy6091@b21v3o44ni.adsl.datanet.hu) |
| 09:07.42 | DarkriftX | welcome back cmonex |
| 09:08.12 | fnord | imap idle? |
| 09:09.36 | jasta | fnord: push e-mail for IMAP |
| 09:10.27 | fnord | ahhh |
| 09:10.58 | fcrick | heh my phone is downloading the update...sucker |
| 09:11.19 | languish | jasta - about damn time.. err I mean.. congrats dude, awesome.. really.. we're all thankful! :) |
| 09:11.32 | fcrick | hmm i think it actually downloads the update over and over and deletes it every time |
| 09:11.46 | jasta | languish: uhm? |
| 09:11.52 | jasta | you know i had it working over a week ago |
| 09:12.25 | languish | yeah but every time you get it reworking, we get closer to it in an update :) |
| 09:12.49 | jasta | my changes are not going to make it into an OTA update for a long, long time |
| 09:12.53 | jasta | and i dont expect them to |
| 09:13.04 | fcrick | thanks all! OTA disabled and root preserved :) |
| 09:13.39 | languish | jasta, that's one of the more disappointing things about the carrier relationship |
| 09:14.01 | languish | but yeah, I expect the testing period is necessary |
| 09:14.03 | jasta | its just practical. especially for an open source project that affects plenty of users who know nothing about open source |
| 09:14.09 | languish | nod |
| 09:14.15 | jasta | and absolutely under no condition want new bugs introduced automatically |
| 09:14.33 | languish | it'd be nice ot have patch tiers, for customers willing to accept certain updates |
| 09:14.42 | jasta | but regardless, with this recent set of changes, i'm comfortable releasing an APK for users to try ;) |
| 09:14.49 | languish | :) |
| 09:14.51 | *** join/#android cybereagle (n=cybereag@unaffiliated/cybereagle) |
| 09:15.17 | jasta | languish: the only way they could do something like that is to provide you with absolutely no warranty or support, which even power users would be foolish to accept |
| 09:15.29 | languish | would your apk fucntion as a separate app, or a replacement of the existing one? |
| 09:15.32 | jasta | it's a phone for crying out loud, it can't just go bricking itself at random. |
| 09:15.42 | jasta | languish: a separate app. you cannot replace existing apps |
| 09:15.57 | jasta | ...that are signed by google and stored on /system :) |
| 09:16.31 | languish | jasta, nod. I would think that the untested tier would go without warranty, unless switched back to the approved tier and reflashed with the approved firmware |
| 09:16.38 | languish | or image |
| 09:16.46 | jasta | this is both an important security feature (to prevent hijacking data) and a technical limitation (/system is unwritable, so resetting to factory defaults is possible) |
| 09:17.01 | languish | nod |
| 09:17.18 | jasta | i initially wanted to distribute my changes with K-9 mail |
| 09:17.38 | languish | issues with the dev? |
| 09:17.42 | jasta | but honestly, i've heard quite a few folks chime in that K-9 mail is not well tested and is approving low quality changes |
| 09:17.49 | jasta | so i don't think i want to actually persoanlly run it ;) |
| 09:17.58 | languish | heh |
| 09:18.12 | fnord | actually trashing /system isn't an issue |
| 09:18.16 | jasta | perhaps i will just provide a patch and let them decide what to do with it. while distributing my own apk as well |
| 09:18.43 | fnord | the big updates reformat it |
| 09:18.43 | languish | fnord, it would be for the average end user and the comapnies supporting them |
| 09:18.57 | languish | they can't have /system getting trashed by random apps |
| 09:19.10 | languish | I get jastas point :) |
| 09:19.37 | fnord | yeah i was actually just nitpicking about the factory defaults part |
| 09:19.52 | *** join/#android anechoic (n=anechoic@unaffiliated/illuminutty) |
| 09:20.14 | languish | well, our factory defaults came with root access :P |
| 09:20.26 | *** join/#android jwjw (i=opera@218.76.151.29) |
| 09:20.31 | fnord | which pleases me greatly |
| 09:20.50 | *** join/#android shackan1 (n=frob@host148-86-dynamic.22-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) |
| 09:20.53 | fnord | but having to look for system takeover attempts with each update will be annoying |
| 09:21.18 | fcrick | its a shame so many ppl will miss out on root until another hole is found |
| 09:21.21 | languish | get cracking on the htc bootloader and we may not have to worry about it so much |
| 09:21.32 | languish | ^_^ |
| 09:21.35 | fcrick | seems like most users will have RC30 Real Soon Now |
| 09:21.45 | languish | yeah, my wife already accepted it |
| 09:21.48 | languish | *sigh* |
| 09:21.51 | fnord | the bootloader gets overwritten |
| 09:21.53 | *** part/#android jwjw (i=opera@218.76.151.29) |
| 09:23.17 | fcrick | hmm...can ppl who got RC30 do like an emergency recovery to get back an earlier version? |
| 09:23.26 | fnord | HTCflasher looks promising |
| 09:23.35 | languish | fcrick, not currently |
| 09:23.38 | languish | no reversion |
| 09:23.53 | fcrick | ahh each version updates the recovery, eh... |
| 09:24.17 | fcrick | i guess i don't really know how it works |
| 09:24.31 | fnord | <PROTECTED> |
| 09:27.06 | fnord | ota is: JavaUpdater receiving commands to download blah.zip, then checking blah.zip with keys in otacerts.zip. if it matches, it reboots into recovery.img, which has an /sbin/recovery app, with builtin keys, that checks blah.zip's signature as well. then it checks it's version against the version in blah.zip's update-script, then runs the commands in that script |
| 09:27.20 | fnord | At least I believe so |
| 09:27.50 | languish | hmm |
| 09:28.15 | languish | if you have the downloaded update, but don't accept the install, will your method still work, after a reset? |
| 09:28.36 | languish | might have to do this on my cousins |
| 09:28.43 | fnord | which method are we speaking of? |
| 09:28.49 | fnord | modded rc30? |
| 09:28.52 | languish | nod |
| 09:29.07 | *** join/#android Yar1 (n=nick@c-76-126-245-95.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
| 09:29.34 | languish | getting and maintaning root access on an rc29 with a downloaded but not updated rc30 |
| 09:29.36 | fnord | yeah, if you flash the custom recovery.img and put a cleansed rc30 update on the sdcard... |
| 09:29.42 | fnord | oh |
| 09:29.51 | fnord | just delete the update file from /cache? |
| 09:30.14 | BHSPitLappy | Sorry for not keeping up, but was the news of that huge RC29 problem really true? |
| 09:30.15 | fnord | yeah wait, sorry misunderstood |
| 09:30.27 | fnord | you need to make sure the rc30 update is at least 40 megs |
| 09:30.40 | BHSPitLappy | Interpreting keystrokes and automatically executing them? |
| 09:30.41 | fnord | the 4 meg one can potentially break your phone |
| 09:30.50 | languish | noted |
| 09:30.54 | fnord | BHSPitLappy, just type 'cat' :P |
| 09:31.03 | fnord | but yeah |
| 09:31.08 | BHSPitLappy | good lord |
| 09:31.18 | fnord | google fixed it, but also attempted to remove people's root access |
| 09:31.19 | BHSPitLappy | that's got the be the worst thing I've ever heard of, ever. |
| 09:31.37 | fnord | I'm glad for the bug actually :P |
| 09:31.52 | BHSPitLappy | sure, there's helpful exploitations of it |
| 09:32.01 | fnord | now the bug is gone from my phone and I retain full control |
| 09:32.12 | BHSPitLappy | but that's mind-blowingly bad |
| 09:32.27 | languish | which is why they issues a fix |
| 09:32.31 | languish | *issued |
| 09:32.44 | fnord | not as bad as a magically rootable telnetd actually |
| 09:32.59 | fnord | because market apps and such can't type on the console |
| 09:33.16 | BHSPitLappy | languish, yeah, but the fact that that went into production that way astounds me. |
| 09:33.39 | languish | blame t-mobile for pushing to have the device out so early :) |
| 09:34.28 | BHSPitLappy | brb, gotta find someone with a G1 I can borrow to make a phone call |
| 09:34.40 | BHSPitLappy | to my good friend "rm -rf /" |
| 09:34.59 | languish | BHSPitLappy that happened to a few people |
| 09:35.07 | BHSPitLappy | "Dude, what's wrong with your phone?" *hand back to owner* |
| 09:36.31 | DarkriftX | that is wrong |
| 09:36.40 | DarkriftX | on so many levels |
| 09:36.53 | BHSPitLappy | so is the bug |
| 09:37.55 | gdsx | languish: I think you might be mistaken |
| 09:38.27 | gdsx | note that you can't actually send most non-word characters to the shell because of keymap issues, so no "-", and no "/", specifically |
| 09:39.26 | gdsx | also, I think my new favorite insect is the incredibly oddly-named "Cockchafer" |
| 09:39.28 | gdsx | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cockchafer |
| 09:40.00 | fnord | yeah 'reboot'' seems the most destructive |
| 09:40.42 | BHSPitLappy | What's the working directory it executes from? |
| 09:40.48 | fnord | time to write a ghetto su. tho i might actually have it use sqlite...hmm.... |
| 09:41.01 | gdsx | BHSPitLappy: / |
| 09:41.11 | BHSPitLappy | eww |
| 09:41.12 | fnord | there's an sqlite3.so i could link to...have it open a database and check a password value... |
| 09:41.32 | rreck | time to get a new favorite insect |
| 09:41.33 | gdsx | BHSPitLappy: you can't pass wildcards, though, since they're not [a-z0-9] |
| 09:41.44 | gdsx | rreck: :o) |
| 09:43.02 | *** join/#android mr_lou (n=sirlou@0x555321d8.adsl.cybercity.dk) |
| 09:50.30 | languish | <gdsx> languish: I think you might be mistaken |
| 09:50.40 | languish | that's very possible, I'm only going by claims I've seen on the net |
| 09:50.54 | languish | for that issue anyway |
| 09:50.55 | SplasPood | hrm... it'd be nice if I could get RSS feeds off xda-developers forums |
| 09:53.37 | fnord | =[ PS1='\[\033]0;PHONE \w\007\]\[\033[01;32m\]PHONE\[\033[01;34m\] \w \$\[\033[00m\] ' does not play nice with the terminal app |
| 09:54.45 | jasta | (because it isnt a terminal app) |
| 09:55.18 | BHSPitLappy | SplasPood, and why can't you? |
| 09:55.24 | BHSPitLappy | Lazy? |
| 09:56.58 | Neverender | so i flashed the recovery image |
| 09:57.15 | Neverender | now all i have to do is update with JF's modified rc30? |
| 09:59.40 | fnord | yep |
| 09:59.51 | *** join/#android mr_daniel (n=sysrq@e177151236.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 10:05.29 | Neverender | ok trying it |
| 10:05.39 | Neverender | its your fault if i brick my phone |
| 10:06.37 | fnord | no it's not :> |
| 10:06.57 | Neverender | aww |
| 10:09.13 | Neverender | ok rebooting... |
| 10:09.30 | Neverender | rebooting again.. |
| 10:09.36 | DarkriftX | uhoh |
| 10:09.39 | DarkriftX | lol, jk |
| 10:09.49 | Neverender | oh whew |
| 10:09.53 | *** join/#android dream_kill (n=nospam@87-194-186-187.bethere.co.uk) |
| 10:10.06 | Neverender | the android is pulsing |
| 10:10.10 | Neverender | thats a good sign |
| 10:11.04 | fnord | yeah it reboots a couple of times, and reboots slowly |
| 10:11.27 | Neverender | yay |
| 10:11.33 | Neverender | rc30 and i have root |
| 10:13.38 | cmonex | [22:58:36] <RyeBrye> It's so ironic that the more hacked your phone is, the less likely it is to be bricked now isn't it? ->that was always true on WM HTC phones too.. and on other pda's as well. |
| 10:15.54 | Neverender | what is this scrolling text thing about? |
| 10:15.58 | Neverender | doesnt see any.. |
| 10:18.02 | DarkriftX | long shortcut names on home screen |
| 10:18.43 | DarkriftX | needs sleep now |
| 10:18.44 | DarkriftX | gn all |
| 10:19.30 | Neverender | night |
| 10:20.45 | Neverender | they dont seem to be scrolling for me |
| 10:26.10 | Drudgery | Hi. |
| 10:26.39 | Drudgery | My cousin told me to do this myself. Can I get help here? |
| 10:27.04 | fnord | Help with what? |
| 10:27.06 | Drudgery | I am trying to follow the directions here: http://android-dls.com/wiki/index.php?title=Replace_Recovery_Partition |
| 10:28.07 | Drudgery | I know how to use the telnetd to get root on my phone. I do not completely understand the use of ADB. |
| 10:28.52 | Drudgery | I have used ADB to connect my phone. I can see the log with it. |
| 10:29.02 | fnord | which part are you stuck on? |
| 10:29.13 | *** join/#android ziyourenxiang (n=ziyouren@bb116-14-181-58.singnet.com.sg) |
| 10:30.08 | Drudgery | Do I need to some how gain access to root using ADB, before following these directions? |
| 10:30.26 | fnord | the shell commands can be done via telnet or terminal or adb |
| 10:31.30 | *** join/#android tauno (n=tauntz@118.192.50.195.sta.estpak.ee) |
| 10:31.59 | Drudgery | I would like to follow them as closely as possible. Which I am guessing is through ADB. I am not fully confident I understand every thing in the directions. Which is why I am asking here. |
| 10:32.40 | Drudgery | I am using a Command Prompt on Windows XP with ADB. |
| 10:33.58 | fnord | which part don't you understand? |
| 10:34.11 | fnord | But yeah the commands need to be done as root |
| 10:34.35 | Drudgery | How do I achieve root in ADB? |
| 10:34.49 | Drudgery | I only see how through telnet. |
| 10:35.28 | fnord | create a setuid shell in telnet? |
| 10:35.43 | fnord | cat /system/bin/sh > /system/bin/rootme |
| 10:35.51 | fnord | chmod 4755 /system/bin/rootme |
| 10:35.57 | fnord | then in adb type 'rootme' |
| 10:36.12 | Drudgery | I will try that now. |
| 10:37.17 | mokolade | is it possible to start a reverse shell with netcat (nc) during boot on the Android, I have tried to edit init.rc on my Android-Freerunner but can't seem to get it started... missing telnetd :( |
| 10:37.30 | mokolade | (no linux guru) |
| 10:38.08 | Drudgery | Each time I telnet in, I must use pTerminal to start telnetd first. Is there a workaround to achieve root with out this step, or is that what I am doing now? |
| 10:40.30 | Drudgery | <fnord> cat /system/bin/sh > /system/bin/rootme |
| 10:40.33 | fnord | mokolade, what are the commands in init? |
| 10:40.45 | Drudgery | I get an error: cannot create... read only file system |
| 10:41.07 | fnord | and drudgery, yeah, you won't need telnet afterwards. but pterminal has to go, there's a better terminal |
| 10:41.25 | Drudgery | I see it in the Market |
| 10:41.49 | Drudgery | My cousin has it on his phone. It looks like a Commodore 64 screen. |
| 10:42.13 | fnord | yuh |
| 10:43.16 | Drudgery | I think I understand |
| 10:43.23 | Drudgery | Do I have to do this first? mount -o remount,rw -t yaffs2 /dev/block/mtdblock3 /system |
| 10:43.28 | *** join/#android pjv (n=pjv@91.178.36.178) |
| 10:43.31 | Drudgery | and then the commands you told me? |
| 10:43.47 | fnord | yeah |
| 10:44.02 | Drudgery | Trying now. |
| 10:46.07 | Drudgery | Does this mean I also have to make Busybox executable again too? |
| 10:46.49 | fnord | after updating? |
| 10:48.06 | jasta | yay, now idle mode supports setting new flags and deleting messages efficiently |
| 10:48.09 | Drudgery | After I copied over busybox the first time, I have since rebooted my phone. |
| 10:48.10 | jasta | instead of just scheduling a new sync |
| 10:48.13 | mokolade | fnord, one commandline I have tried is: /system/xbin/nc -e /system/bin/sh 192.168.0.1 3333 |
| 10:48.55 | mokolade | got it working in debian on the freerunner, so it's working on my desktop computer... |
| 10:48.59 | Drudgery | Does rebooting the phone remove the symlink I created? |
| 10:49.54 | *** join/#android invain (n=invain@218.209.77.37) |
| 10:50.00 | fnord | nope |
| 10:50.13 | fnord | mokolade, hmm |
| 10:50.35 | fnord | dunno why that would fail :-O |
| 10:50.58 | *** join/#android winfield (n=winfield@221.12.10.218) |
| 10:52.29 | mokolade | okey, I'll guess I just have too try some more.. |
| 10:52.41 | Drudgery | I have completed these commands: |
| 10:52.42 | Drudgery | [05:35] <fnord> cat /system/bin/sh > /system/bin/rootme |
| 10:52.42 | Drudgery | [05:35] <fnord> chmod 4755 /system/bin/rootme |
| 10:52.42 | Drudgery | [05:35] <fnord> then in adb type 'rootme' |
| 10:53.07 | Drudgery | When I type rootme, it says rootme is not recognized |
| 10:53.26 | Drudgery | This is in the Command prompt. |
| 10:53.26 | fnord | wtf |
| 10:53.33 | fnord | adb shell? |
| 10:53.47 | Drudgery | I think that is where I am confused. |
| 10:53.59 | Drudgery | Is there a step to enter the adb shell? |
| 10:54.10 | Drudgery | So far I have just used ADB -commands |
| 10:54.32 | Drudgery | Such as ADB device, and ADB netcat |
| 10:55.00 | fnord | 'adb shell' |
| 10:55.15 | fnord | think of it as telnet |
| 10:55.28 | Drudgery | Please forgive my ignorance. I really appreciate your help. |
| 10:56.10 | Drudgery | abd shell has worked, I now have a $ prompt |
| 10:56.18 | *** join/#android dream_kill (n=dream_ki@87-194-186-187.bethere.co.uk) |
| 10:56.23 | dream_kill | re |
| 10:56.28 | dream_kill | got disconnectd |
| 10:56.36 | Drudgery | The commands in the wiki should now work? |
| 10:56.57 | Drudgery | Or do I have to somehow gain root through the ADB shell? |
| 10:57.14 | Drudgery | Ahh, you said type rootme. Sorry. |
| 10:57.29 | Drudgery | The prompt has changes to # |
| 10:57.43 | Drudgery | s/changes/changed |
| 10:59.35 | fnord | yup now the commands should work |
| 11:00.00 | Drudgery | is my sdcard now "D:" ? |
| 11:00.31 | fnord | maybe? o.o irrelevant |
| 11:00.33 | Drudgery | The first step on the wiki was to: 1: download the replacement recovery image and unzip it to your sd card. |
| 11:00.44 | *** join/#android JoeBrain (n=JoeBrain@c-98-234-136-135.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
| 11:00.49 | *** join/#android jan__ (n=jan@92.117.200.236) |
| 11:00.57 | Drudgery | The instructions look as though the files should be on my local harddisk. |
| 11:01.03 | fnord | you did: adb push recovery_testkeys.img /data/local/recovery.img |
| 11:01.04 | fnord | <PROTECTED> |
| 11:01.50 | Drudgery | Not yet. I am trying to understand where it will get the recovery_testkeys.img from, in that command. |
| 11:02.19 | Drudgery | It will automagically see it on the sdcard using the adb push command? |
| 11:02.51 | fnord | no |
| 11:02.55 | Drudgery | Or must I place the recovery_testkeys.img somewhere else? |
| 11:03.04 | fnord | just put it in your adb directory |
| 11:03.13 | fnord | and do the adb push thing |
| 11:03.29 | Drudgery | Yes, that is what I was thinking. Thank you. That makes more sense. |
| 11:05.20 | Drudgery | Not found |
| 11:05.45 | Drudgery | My ADB directory is E:\android-sdk-windows-1.0_r1\tools |
| 11:05.57 | Drudgery | I have the recovery_testkeys.img under \tools |
| 11:06.14 | fnord | and you're running it from tools? |
| 11:06.18 | Drudgery | yes |
| 11:07.13 | fnord | dir recovery_testkeys.img shows it? |
| 11:08.12 | Drudgery | I see it in the tools folder in Windows Explorer |
| 11:10.07 | Drudgery | OH! I think I understand what is wrong. I am typing: adb push recovery_testkeys.img /data/local/recovery.img |
| 11:10.32 | Drudgery | Perhaps I do not need to type "adb" already being in the shell? |
| 11:10.38 | Drudgery | I will try this. |
| 11:11.10 | Drudgery | No. It failed. |
| 11:14.11 | fnord | err |
| 11:14.14 | fnord | exit the shell |
| 11:14.18 | Drudgery | OH! |
| 11:14.34 | Drudgery | Yes, I just opened a second Command Prompt and performed the command. |
| 11:14.43 | Drudgery | This seems to have worked. |
| 11:15.26 | fnord | now go back into shell and do the linux commands |
| 11:16.40 | Drudgery | When I performed the push command, it said: 703 KB/s (0 bytes in 1767424.002s) |
| 11:16.49 | Drudgery | 0 bytes? Is this correct? |
| 11:18.20 | Drudgery | Can the ls command in the adb shell show me more information than just the file names? I tried la -al which did not display more information. |
| 11:18.37 | Drudgery | s/la/ls |
| 11:19.14 | Drudgery | OH. Just -l works. |
| 11:20.07 | Drudgery | I am glad I checked. The date on the recovery.img is 2008-11-06 20:41 recovery.img |
| 11:20.31 | saurik | toolbox sucks, you need to do ls -l -a instead of ls -la |
| 11:20.47 | Drudgery | So my overwrite of recovery_testkeys.img to recovery.img did not work? |
| 11:24.23 | Drudgery | perhaps I will do this on the G1 directly from the sd card |
| 11:27.24 | fnord | ls -l /usr/local/rec* |
| 11:27.28 | fnord | erm |
| 11:27.33 | fnord | ls -l /data/local/rec* |
| 11:28.13 | Drudgery | yes, the ls -l command worked. It showed the push did not change the filedate |
| 11:28.30 | Drudgery | I was suspicious that it had not been modified. |
| 11:28.55 | Drudgery | When I performed the push, it said: 703 KB/s (0 bytes in 1767424.002s) |
| 11:29.39 | fnord | this exactly: ls -l /usr/local/rec* |
| 11:30.52 | Drudgery | The path was /data/local not /usr/local |
| 11:31.17 | Drudgery | Or am I looking in the wrong place? |
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| 11:34.12 | fnord | erm |
| 11:34.13 | Drudgery | I must have done something incorrectly along the way. |
| 11:34.25 | fnord | yeah. i'm tired. it should be in /data/local |
| 11:34.39 | fnord | and what's the size? |
| 11:35.11 | *** join/#android sharky (n=sharky@a40-prg1-15-56.static.adsl.vol.cz) |
| 11:35.23 | Drudgery | I simply cp'd the recovery_testkeys.img recovery.img on the phone itself. Now the file shows todays date. |
| 11:35.53 | Drudgery | The filesize is now 1767424 |
| 11:36.04 | Drudgery | for the rtecovery.img on the phone. |
| 11:36.35 | Drudgery | That was recovery.img |
| 11:38.10 | Drudgery | hopes he did not just hose his phone. |
| 11:39.40 | Drudgery | In this wiki, it says to $ su |
| 11:39.57 | Drudgery | The reply was Permission denied |
| 11:40.05 | Drudgery | Does the "rootme" replace "su"? |
| 11:44.14 | fnord | yep |
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| 11:45.47 | Drudgery | I have rebooted in to recover mode. It says: Android system utility Using test keys. E: Can't open cache/recovery/command |
| 11:46.28 | Drudgery | The wiki says that first line should be the "next to top line" does that mean I am missing something on this screen that should be there? |
| 11:46.48 | *** join/#android snadge (n=snadge@starbug.ugh.net.au) |
| 11:46.51 | Drudgery | As opposed to "Android system utility Using test keys." being THE top line. |
| 11:47.35 | Drudgery | Also, is "E: Can't open cache/recovery/command" a problem? |
| 11:48.04 | fnord | it's not a problem |
| 11:48.08 | fnord | it means there's no OTA waiting |
| 11:48.20 | fnord | everything seems to be fine :> |
| 11:48.30 | Drudgery | OH! Good. I deleted the RC30 OTA that was in cache. |
| 11:48.54 | fnord | good |
| 11:49.10 | Drudgery | I'll now move on to the next steps! |
| 11:50.16 | Drudgery | I hope my ignorance some how helps to make the wiki article more clear for people like me. |
| 11:52.26 | snadge | is there a google phone that supports 2100mhz? |
| 11:52.31 | snadge | that totally blows chunks ;) |
| 11:52.49 | snadge | so it looks like.. from what i can tell.. i can only use it in gsm mode.. ie.. no internet in australia |
| 11:53.16 | snadge | i have the option of buying them off ebay from hong kong.. but not sure if its the same frequency bands |
| 11:54.43 | Drudgery | snadge, my cousin says to look here: http://www.htc.com/www/product/g1/specification.html |
| 11:55.06 | *** join/#android living_sword (i=living_s@203.115.94.227) |
| 12:01.51 | *** join/#android ligi (n=ligi@p54B9CEBA.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 12:04.59 | Drudgery | For what ever reason, I can not push from my local directory to the phone. However, I can cp from the sd card, and it seems to work just as well. |
| 12:06.29 | Drudgery | I am now running the modified boot image! YAY! |
| 12:07.22 | rreck | yikes, my phone wants to update. will that ruin the ability to get r00t? |
| 12:07.37 | pandzilla | this pipe-to-execution bug left me fairly speechless |
| 12:07.52 | Drudgery | fnord, thank you again for your help! I am now going to attempt http://android-dls.com/wiki/index.php?title=Keeping_Root |
| 12:08.10 | Drudgery | rreck, deny the update. |
| 12:08.14 | Drudgery | That is what I did |
| 12:08.22 | Drudgery | Then I deleted the update from the /cache |
| 12:08.32 | Drudgery | That saved me! |
| 12:08.34 | fnord | Drudgery, someone released a modified update, that might work better |
| 12:08.45 | Drudgery | A modified update? |
| 12:08.58 | fnord | yeah basically what http://android-dls.com/wiki/index.php?title=Keeping_Root does |
| 12:09.18 | Drudgery | Do you know where I can find it with directions? |
| 12:09.58 | Neverender | heh |
| 12:10.14 | Neverender | the "reboot" bug is being reported as if its not the same thing as the "jailbreak" bug |
| 12:13.39 | Neverender | Drudgery: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=443713 |
| 12:14.33 | *** join/#android Dralspire (n=dral@81-196.126-70.tampabay.res.rr.com) |
| 12:15.00 | Neverender | just download that file, put it in the root dir of your sdcard and rename to update.zip |
| 12:19.14 | Drudgery | Neverender, thank you. I will read this thread. |
| 12:20.18 | Neverender | then you can follow http://android-dls.com/wiki/index.php?title=Forcing_OTA_Updates |
| 12:20.21 | Drudgery | If I get all this done with out bothering my cousin, he will buy me dinner at Knickerbockers. If I had his kind of money, I would do the same for you guys. I will be glad to buy you a hotdog though! :) |
| 12:20.36 | Neverender | using the modified update.zip |
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| 12:40.13 | *** part/#android ziyourenxiang (n=ziyouren@bb116-14-181-58.singnet.com.sg) |
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| 13:28.59 | Neverender | the comments in the market anger me |
| 13:32.20 | Drudgery | hahha |
| 13:32.25 | Drudgery | oh sorry |
| 13:32.33 | languish | ok |
| 13:32.34 | languish | now.. |
| 13:32.35 | languish | hahahah |
| 13:32.54 | languish | :( |
| 13:33.34 | languish | Neverender, but yeah.. it's sad there are so many extreme asshats out there |
| 13:34.29 | tauno | can people without an actual G1 see the comments somewhere? |
| 13:35.14 | languish | not that I know if |
| 13:35.17 | languish | *of |
| 13:35.23 | tauno | :( |
| 13:35.40 | languish | From what I've seen, even the devs that put up the apps don't get to |
| 13:35.48 | languish | unless they have a G1 and service |
| 13:36.20 | tauno | huh.. thats weird.. |
| 13:37.09 | languish | they get to see the ratings, but the way the market is unregulated right now, that doesn't mean much |
| 13:37.38 | languish | people are giving bad reviews just because they don't know what an apps purpose is, like ssh with connectbot |
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| 13:56.58 | *** join/#android nebi (n=nebi@c-498fe253.02-145-7570701.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se) |
| 13:57.18 | languish | ugh |
| 13:57.24 | languish | owe my cousin a dinner |
| 13:57.34 | languish | *sigh* thanks guys </sarcasm> |
| 13:57.36 | languish | :) |
| 13:58.09 | languish | glad he's come along far enough to follow directions |
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| 14:10.34 | languish | hrm, wifi scanner in the market now |
| 14:11.28 | Taiten | brand? |
| 14:11.39 | digitalspaghetti | yea, seems to work well |
| 14:11.41 | languish | o.O |
| 14:11.59 | digitalspaghetti | nice that it dumps out the geolocation so you can go back if your warring :) |
| 14:12.29 | languish | :) |
| 14:17.22 | *** join/#android haavi (n=blahhah@c83-254-67-170.bredband.comhem.se) |
| 14:21.32 | mr_lou | Apple Store has a 10mb filesize limit. Which means, if an iPhone dev makes a game >10mb, players has to download and install via iTunes instead of directly from Apple Store. Is there somewhat same limits for the Android market? |
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| 14:57.10 | KNY | mr_lou, I kind of doubt it, since there is no iTunes for Android |
| 14:57.16 | KNY | but I don't know for certain |
| 14:58.02 | mr_lou | No but isn't there an equivalent for Apple Store called Android Marked? |
| 14:58.08 | mr_lou | ...or sumthin. |
| 14:59.07 | KNY | yeah, but stuff is downloaded via the network |
| 14:59.33 | mr_lou | Like GPRS or 3G? |
| 14:59.45 | KNY | I'm not familiar with how Apple does it, there isn't a specific desktop client for Android |
| 14:59.49 | KNY | mr_lou, yes, or WiFi |
| 15:02.39 | tauno | anyone knows what key generates a KEYCODE_SOFT_LEFT code? |
| 15:06.38 | anno^da_ | Anything new regarding developer G1s? :-) |
| 15:17.11 | *** join/#android oavdeev (n=oavdeev@80.86.251.77) |
| 15:17.27 | languish | Do you really need a "developer" g1 when you have root and can flash your own image on now? |
| 15:17.40 | anno^da_ | languish: I dont have any G1. |
| 15:17.47 | languish | lol ohh ok :) |
| 15:17.59 | anno^da_ | Because I dont want to pay 700€ in Germany at ebay. |
| 15:18.09 | anno^da_ | which means over 1000$ |
| 15:18.26 | languish | nod |
| 15:19.04 | languish | Hmm |
| 15:19.32 | *** join/#android sherlok (n=kjsdjk@ool-457349c6.dyn.optonline.net) |
| 15:19.42 | languish | Wonder if the initialization routine can be set to enable wifi instead of 3g, and DHCP an addy, in order to do the gmail sign-in |
| 15:19.53 | languish | perhaps for a custom image |
| 15:20.28 | languish | and ignore the lack of SIM |
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| 15:27.48 | cmonex | mr_lou: considering Google are more than happy to do FOTA updates by downloading it off your GPRS/UMTS/HSDPA connection, I doubt it |
| 15:28.03 | cmonex | they seem to assume everyone just gets unlimited internet |
| 15:28.35 | languish | cmonex, that's t-mobiles call |
| 15:28.42 | cmonex | and since they force the FOTA updates, you'll eventually get it in the ass money wise |
| 15:28.57 | cmonex | languish: you've heard my bf's opinion, as he stole my keyboard :) |
| 15:29.12 | languish | google would provide them over the net if t-mobile woild allow it |
| 15:29.18 | languish | cmonex, lol |
| 15:29.44 | mr_lou | You do indeed need unlimited internet with Android and iPhone. |
| 15:29.53 | cmonex | so making the updates not download till you OK it obviously isn't the sensible thing to do |
| 15:29.53 | languish | well smack him with the keyboard and tell him to get his facts straight. google's at fault for enough shit, but put blame where it's due |
| 15:30.43 | cmonex | are you on crack? are you telling me it's not possible for Google to make FOTA updates download only after authorisation |
| 15:30.45 | cmonex | cut the bullshit |
| 15:31.38 | languish | they're legally bound not to |
| 15:31.46 | KNY | hey, I see on the docs about shared preferences (http://code.google.com/android/devel/data/preferences.html) that you can't share across packages.. does that mean just not across my.package.app and your.other.package.app or can I not do my.package.app and my.package.app.sub ? |
| 15:31.56 | languish | for the G1, t-mobile has to approve all updates |
| 15:32.25 | cmonex | fine, T-mobile has to approve it, that still doesn't factor in to allowing users to delay the download |
| 15:32.28 | languish | it's the T-Mobile G1. Not the Google G-1. |
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| 15:32.55 | tauno | I don't plan on getting unlimited data for just the fact that my phone needs to download an update.. I'm not that rich (it'll be $40 a month just to be sure that when the G1 downloads its updates, I'll be safe) |
| 15:32.58 | bgupta | Are there any alternate firmwares available yet? |
| 15:33.00 | languish | Other carriers may or may not be as restrictive in the future. |
| 15:33.18 | languish | bgupta, yes there's a "hacked" firmware |
| 15:33.20 | cmonex | as it stands, it currently downloads without authorisation and then asks for permission to install |
| 15:33.22 | languish | for the G1 |
| 15:33.29 | KNY | tauno, doesn't t-mo require unlimited data? |
| 15:33.34 | cmonex | and that times out eventually anyway |
| 15:33.35 | languish | but it requires some prerequisites |
| 15:33.45 | tauno | KNY, there's no t-mo in my country :) |
| 15:33.50 | cmonex | KNY -> hungarian tmobile does not offer unlimited data whatsoever |
| 15:33.52 | KNY | tauno, ahh |
| 15:33.55 | bgupta | languish: DO you have a link? |
| 15:34.21 | languish | bgupta http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=443713 |
| 15:34.27 | languish | remeber those prerequisites |
| 15:34.45 | cmonex | legally speaking though, T-mobile should disclude FOTA updates from customer bandwidth usage |
| 15:34.59 | languish | cmonex, I agree. and I think they do |
| 15:35.01 | tauno | I mean.. I have a freaking 5MB data package (I use wifi most of the time).. and if suddenly my phone tries to download stuff without my knowledge and authorization, then I'm going to be REALLY pissed :P |
| 15:35.06 | languish | but I'd have to confirm it |
| 15:35.36 | languish | tauno, how much do you pay for 5MB data? |
| 15:35.47 | cmonex | then they should also have the FOTA images stored on an intranet location |
| 15:35.49 | tauno | thats included in my package.. |
| 15:35.55 | cmonex | so that they can't be accessed from other providers |
| 15:36.11 | languish | cmonex, it's t-mobile, why would they do that? |
| 15:36.13 | cmonex | languish: they do what? |
| 15:36.20 | cmonex | <languish> cmonex, I agree. and I think they do |
| 15:36.32 | languish | cmonex, exloude the data from your tally |
| 15:36.38 | languish | *exclude |
| 15:36.44 | cmonex | it's a T-Mobile device that's intended to be used on T-mobile network |
| 15:36.55 | cmonex | why should they put the FOTA update on the internet |
| 15:37.15 | cmonex | if someone does use their phone with another provider, that FOTA will probably cost |
| 15:37.30 | cmonex | if they locate the updates on a T-mobile internal intranet server, that won't happen, simple as that |
| 15:37.33 | languish | cmonex, because sometimes you have issues with t-mobile connectivity, and still need a patch. |
| 15:38.39 | cmonex | fine, then if you apply it using that method, it shouldn't be mandatory |
| 15:39.09 | languish | (btw, am I chatting with cmonex or the unreasonable boyfriend?) |
| 15:39.17 | languish | (lulz) |
| 15:39.20 | cmonex | bf |
| 15:39.34 | languish | yeah, i figured, from the unreasonable tone :P |
| 15:40.10 | *** part/#android radix (n=r@wordeology.com) |
| 15:40.31 | languish | I understand why tmo is doing what they're doing, but I disagree with it due to the open *intent* of android |
| 15:41.20 | tauno | So my only option is to get a G1 from UK (ok, I already got it ordered over here), It'll be $1129 (£40/month, 18 months) + unlocking $24 + $40/month for the rest of the g1 lifetime in case it wants to update behind my back.... |
| 15:41.21 | cmonex | also, (gf now), I saw a guy complaining that t-mobile charged him a packet for going over his limit... thanks to the FOTA |
| 15:41.38 | tauno | It'll be fun... |
| 15:41.39 | languish | cmonex, he went over 10GB? |
| 15:41.41 | cmonex | tauno: hack the updater so it doesn't download hehe |
| 15:41.45 | tauno | I'm broke :P |
| 15:41.46 | cmonex | languish he wasn't on 10GB apparently |
| 15:41.53 | cmonex | not everyone wants to pay 40usd :) |
| 15:41.55 | anno^da_ | Well to be honest I dont understand it since they would sell much more G1s if it would be available without all this lock downs. |
| 15:42.05 | rreck | tmobile has a data limit? |
| 15:42.23 | cmonex | rreck: yes, 10GB is the "unlimited" internet :) |
| 15:42.29 | rreck | nfw |
| 15:42.38 | languish | cmonex, then he wasn't going "by the rules" t-mobile set up for use with being a T-Mobile g1 customer. He has nothing to complain about. He tried to make an end run around their pricing policy and lost |
| 15:42.41 | rreck | i will cancel it immediately |
| 15:42.52 | rreck | you have to be kidding |
| 15:43.00 | cmonex | uh huh, uh huh |
| 15:43.07 | languish | rreck, after 10GB they limit your speed to modem speeds. they don't charge you more, and they don't cut you off |
| 15:43.12 | languish | they just rate limit you |
| 15:43.15 | cmonex | you seem to tow the party line quite admirably languisg |
| 15:43.18 | cmonex | *languish |
| 15:43.25 | cmonex | are they paying you for this crap? |
| 15:43.25 | rreck | holy fuck |
| 15:43.36 | cmonex | I've never seen someone backing such an evidently unfair practice |
| 15:44.02 | languish | cmonex, no.. I'm just happy that it's not 1GB, that they don't charge more for overage beyhond 10GB, that they don't completely cut us off after 10GB... |
| 15:44.04 | cmonex | you think that railroading people into a 40 dollar a month contract for owning a G1 is fair practice then? |
| 15:44.23 | cmonex | I call T-Mobile shill |
| 15:44.24 | tauno | starts to put money aside.. g1 will start eating $40/month just to update itself.. |
| 15:44.35 | languish | it's a fair market practice, but I don't like it and hope they lose a class action on it, but doubt they will |
| 15:44.50 | languish | I would prefer to just pay $25 for data, and no voice plan |
| 15:45.19 | tauno | it's not tmobile's fault in my case.. I know the risks that I take.. |
| 15:45.26 | rreck | im so happy im under 14 days |
| 15:45.34 | rreck | i will cancel immediately based on that bs |
| 15:45.41 | languish | on what BS? |
| 15:45.50 | rreck | 10g limit |
| 15:45.53 | languish | You planned on using more than 10GB/mo on a cell phone? |
| 15:46.04 | ismarc | do you know how hard it is to hit 10GB? |
| 15:46.13 | rreck | im not going to be lied to about what unlimited is |
| 15:46.14 | ismarc | you have to be actively TRYING to break that limit |
| 15:46.17 | cmonex | hard? not hard at all if you tether ;) |
| 15:46.17 | tauno | but generally.. even if I got the phone free.. I didn't want it to update it without my knowledge/authorization.. |
| 15:46.23 | languish | You realize on tmo's wireless data network, if you used bittorrent, you'd fuck with the network for everyone ? |
| 15:46.34 | *** join/#android orci (n=orci@24-177-53-93.dhcp.oxfr.ma.charter.com) |
| 15:46.36 | tauno | as a developer I have to live with the fact that it does.. as a consumer I would NEVER buys such a phone |
| 15:46.37 | KNY | rreck, technically, unless the speed was unlimited, you could never use an unlimited amount ;) |
| 15:46.39 | ismarc | on any data network bittorrent fucks with the network |
| 15:46.40 | tauno | buy* |
| 15:46.48 | cmonex | (in europe there is no extra charge on tethering... so yeah, I used a phone last summer for months when I had no DSL yet) |
| 15:47.02 | rreck | well as a consumer im allowed an opinion and that is mine |
| 15:47.06 | languish | and yes, I agree, t-mobile should be sanctioned for using the word "unlimited" because it isn't. |
| 15:47.12 | orci | hi, doesn't t-mobile g1 has bluetooth networking feature? or is it because that feature is not enabled in android platform yet? |
| 15:47.13 | anno^da_ | (in europe the whole mobile market is more open *caugh*) |
| 15:47.15 | cmonex | (and no I didn't use torrent but had to try hard not to go over a few GB's :( ) |
| 15:47.20 | rreck | to have a limit and make it unspecified when i signed up is the issue not the amount |
| 15:47.38 | KNY | orci, it has bluetooth support, but it's not in the API yet, so we (developers) can't use it yet |
| 15:47.40 | ismarc | If you actually read everything, they do not promise the speed at which you'll have unlimited internet access |
| 15:47.48 | ismarc | just that you'll have unlimited |
| 15:47.57 | ismarc | and they don't cut you off after 10GB, just rate limit you |
| 15:47.57 | languish | But $25 for 10GB data and no overage charges when I pass it.. just a rate limiting.. I can live with that for the price. |
| 15:48.09 | cmonex | the other thing I'm also thinking, perhaps progress related to hacking custom software into the G1 should become more secretive; it's self-evident that Google were following the telnet activity very closely |
| 15:48.16 | rreck | great im an idiot and not a lawyer, but as a consumer im allowed to return it |
| 15:48.25 | cmonex | (this is the bf, my opinion on this differs :) ) |
| 15:48.26 | KNY | that you are. |
| 15:48.34 | tauno | well we have a option of 3GB "unlimited" access here.. so you are lucky to have 10GB :P |
| 15:48.35 | rreck | troll |
| 15:48.38 | languish | cmonex, of course they were, it was being discussed in the freakin android channel. |
| 15:48.45 | rreck | rather be an idiot than a troll |
| 15:49.08 | orci | KNY, I can expect to have that feature with the same hardware in the future, am I correct? |
| 15:49.09 | languish | rreck, he's either a troll or inexperienced. |
| 15:49.13 | languish | *shrug* |
| 15:49.13 | ismarc | languish: Another stance is, Google is one of the few companies where the company as a whole and it's employees still take pride in what they deliver |
| 15:49.21 | cmonex | tauno: yeah, we have 5GB then FUP over 5GB, in hungary, and it is not even tmobile. tmobile doesn't have that option at all |
| 15:49.34 | KNY | orci, yes. The word is that bluetooth API support will be coming in a future Android update. |
| 15:49.35 | languish | ismarc, I only partially agree with that. |
| 15:49.38 | anno^da_ | From the consumer point of view unlimted is unlimited and NO cut down version after 10GB. I dont think we have to argue about that. "Unlimited" is fucking marketing. |
| 15:49.53 | languish | ismarc, some of the employees may be proud of their individual work. |
| 15:50.02 | languish | But Google is just another large corp like any other |
| 15:50.05 | orci | KNY, thank you |
| 15:50.11 | KNY | ismarc, as a software dev, I can tell you that the company I work for is pretty proud of their products :) |
| 15:50.14 | KNY | orci, no problem. |
| 15:50.27 | ismarc | KNY: Mine is/was, too |
| 15:50.58 | languish | remember, Google is a marketing and market analytics company. They're all about ad revenue. |
| 15:51.10 | orci | can I expect to see mozilla/firefox/fennec on android sometime? since they are not developed in Java? |
| 15:51.18 | languish | Their "products" as the average consumer sees it, are their enticements. |
| 15:51.39 | ismarc | orci: I doubt the gekko rendering engine will ever be lightweight enough for reasonable mobile performance |
| 15:51.50 | tauno | am I the only one here who (as a consumer) would never buy a device that does multi MB updates without your knowledge? I mean.. imagine if Microsoft did that.. and it seems that this isn't bothering you guys much :/ |
| 15:52.21 | ismarc | tauno: it isn't without your knowledge |
| 15:52.35 | tauno | I can see and disable the downloading progress? |
| 15:52.36 | ismarc | tauno: when I received my first OTA upgrade, I had the option to not install it or anything |
| 15:52.41 | languish | tauno, they don't do the update without your knowledge. They give you the choice of accepting the update or not. All they do is enable and auto-download of the update. |
| 15:52.53 | languish | and/an |
| 15:52.58 | tauno | I mean the downloading process - it asks you AFTER it has been downloaded to the deivce.. |
| 15:53.04 | languish | so what? |
| 15:53.07 | orci | I am really havinghad time with the browser on android platform. it is not very practical for me to browse, I wish zoom in and zoom out was easier such as double click |
| 15:53.20 | kRutOn | languish: I think his point is that data isn't cheap all over the world. |
| 15:53.29 | languish | you're supposed to be on t-mobiles $25 or $35 data plan. The download is not a big deal. |
| 15:53.30 | ismarc | orci: I agree, that's the one missing feature the iphone has that I enjoy, the double-click zoom to a paragraph |
| 15:53.31 | cmonex | orci: how does zoom work then? I've yet to see a G1 :) |
| 15:53.40 | tauno | languish, and you would also be OK when your linux/windows distro downloaded all the updates and you had no way of disabling it? |
| 15:53.46 | cmonex | we don't all live in the USA, languisa |
| 15:53.48 | languish | kRutOn, and t-mobile doesn't offer the G1 all over the world :) |
| 15:53.49 | orci | cmonex, there is a button |
| 15:53.50 | cmonex | *languish |
| 15:53.55 | ismarc | orci: however, the default loading the page to a reasonable reading size and the preview move around thing is nicer |
| 15:53.59 | languish | his point is moot until it's offered in his region. |
| 15:54.02 | ismarc | err, nicer than the iphones |
| 15:54.02 | cmonex | and how does the button work? |
| 15:54.13 | *** part/#android mcuelenaere (n=mcuelena@rockbox/developer/mcuelenaere) |
| 15:54.19 | ismarc | cmonex: mash the button and it zooms in or out some |
| 15:54.23 | orci | ismarc, that is a good feature yes |
| 15:54.34 | cmonex | languish (now gf): my opinion is that it is stupid to require a data plan for a phone :) |
| 15:54.42 | cmonex | quite |
| 15:54.42 | ismarc | cmonex: it's difficult to get it so the paragraph you're reading fits the width of the screen sometimes |
| 15:54.46 | languish | When the G1 is (if it ever is) offered in your region, there may be different methods to get your localized G1 updates, OR your provider may diclude the updates from your data usage. |
| 15:54.54 | cmonex | ismarc: as for iphone zoom, it is horrible, my personal opinion. |
| 15:55.00 | orci | ismarc, I do not really understand why would not double click zoom in or zoom out |
| 15:55.13 | orci | ismarc, does not do anything as of now |
| 15:55.16 | cmonex | a phone is a phone, internet is internet |
| 15:55.26 | tauno | languish, that's not my point:) I mean.. if my data was free, then I still wouldn't want my phone to automatically download stuff behind my back |
| 15:55.31 | tauno | ..or am I weird? :P |
| 15:55.33 | cmonex | and now you're just quoting what they might do, so thanks for stating the bloody obvious there |
| 15:55.48 | cmonex | and precisely what tauno states too |
| 15:56.01 | languish | tauno, the general public doesn't care as long as their devices "work" |
| 15:56.23 | languish | techies, prefer to know every thing their device does, and have disapproval/control |
| 15:56.33 | cmonex | though the reason for forcing the updates has nothing to do with keeping the public happy |
| 15:56.42 | tauno | My internet is "free" and I don't want windows to download stuff without my consent... why should my phone get away with it? |
| 15:56.48 | languish | cmonex, in part it does |
| 15:56.50 | cmonex | it's specifically to mitigate any damage that useful hacks might do |
| 15:56.56 | languish | cmonex, not true. |
| 15:57.03 | languish | it's only partly for that reason :) |
| 15:57.10 | languish | though it IS part of the reason. |
| 15:57.20 | cmonex | if you present Joe 6Pack with a dialog saying "look, New update! download now? Yes/No" |
| 15:57.31 | cmonex | you can expect Joey will click Yes |
| 15:57.38 | tauno | didn't someone from google say that if you refuse the update x times, it'll autoupdate anyway? :P |
| 15:57.47 | languish | did they? |
| 15:57.49 | cmonex | as it is, he currently receives one asking him whether to install or not |
| 15:57.59 | cmonex | yes tauno, that's correct. i looked at the src |
| 15:58.08 | *** join/#android shackan (n=frob@host240-86-dynamic.22-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) |
| 15:58.26 | languish | I read they said that if the download fails it will keep trying to download |
| 15:58.32 | cmonex | that too |
| 15:58.45 | cmonex | and if it doesn't fail but you press the "Later" button |
| 15:58.56 | cmonex | and keep pressing that choice |
| 15:58.59 | tauno | cmonex can you point me to the source? this is.. outrageous IMO.. |
| 15:59.00 | cmonex | it will eventually just decide to install |
| 15:59.10 | cmonex | and apparently RC30 installs right away without asking |
| 15:59.14 | languish | if x# of update rejections by the user results in a forced update anyway, that is wrong. |
| 15:59.15 | cmonex | tauno, one sec, let me find it |
| 15:59.31 | languish | <cmonex> and apparently RC30 installs right away without asking <- wrong. |
| 15:59.45 | languish | RC30 asked me if I wanted to install |
| 15:59.52 | languish | I said later, then deleted it from my cache |
| 15:59.59 | cmonex | http://git.source.android.com/?p=platform/packages/apps/Updater.git;a=blob;f=src/com/android/updater/PesterActivity.java;h=d6682443d455f94a4ddcc1478ff47a45044e4521;hb=HEAD |
| 16:00.03 | languish | then haxed the G1 |
| 16:00.03 | cmonex | scroll to the bottom |
| 16:00.25 | languish | My wife's RC30 update also *asked* |
| 16:00.27 | cmonex | languish: heh it didn't ask someone else. he had a bit of a trouble to prevent it from removing his root access :) |
| 16:00.38 | cmonex | he did not remove the otacerts file, though |
| 16:00.47 | cmonex | he moved the updater app, or something, iirc |
| 16:00.55 | cmonex | so then it errored out and that was his luck :) |
| 16:01.07 | cmonex | then he had to hard reset to get it booting again.. |
| 16:01.18 | cmonex | i think it was ionstorm |
| 16:01.21 | languish | cmonex, he likely either lied or didn't realize he hit the prompt. Which is very possible. |
| 16:01.34 | languish | I almost hit the prompt when I came out of the lock screen |
| 16:01.37 | cmonex | or you are wrong, and he didn't lie. |
| 16:01.56 | languish | I doubt it. I've seen that it asks for permission |
| 16:02.02 | cmonex | [22:24:56] <ionstorm> RyeBrye, its downloading |
| 16:02.02 | cmonex | [22:24:56] <ionstorm> wtf |
| 16:02.02 | cmonex | [22:25:15] <DarkriftX> i dont think it will install though ionstorm |
| 16:02.02 | cmonex | [22:25:16] <ionstorm> fuck |
| 16:02.02 | cmonex | [22:25:18] <ionstorm> its updating |
| 16:02.02 | cmonex | [22:25:20] <DarkriftX> lets hope not |
| 16:02.04 | cmonex | [22:25:21] <DarkriftX> oh shit |
| 16:02.06 | cmonex | [22:25:26] <ttuttle> ionstorm: Quick, kill the network. |
| 16:02.08 | cmonex | [22:25:28] <ionstorm> shIT |
| 16:02.10 | cmonex | [22:25:31] <ttuttle> ionstorm: Settings > Wireless > Airplane mode |
| 16:02.12 | cmonex | [22:25:32] <ionstorm> nope |
| 16:02.14 | cmonex | [22:25:32] <spikebike> uh oh |
| 16:02.16 | cmonex | [22:25:34] <ionstorm> its flashing |
| 16:02.22 | languish | and I doubt they issued different versions |
| 16:02.28 | languish | yeah I saw that |
| 16:02.43 | languish | and he likely just didn't want to admit he hit install by accident |
| 16:02.45 | cmonex | well dearie... the source code never lies, let's see if google have the capability to do an unprompted update |
| 16:02.51 | languish | or did so without realizing |
| 16:03.08 | cmonex | languish: you are likely just not to admit you might be wrong about something :) |
| 16:03.17 | languish | I admit I'm wrong often |
| 16:03.17 | *** join/#android blau (n=blau@c-68-39-243-76.hsd1.nj.comcast.net) |
| 16:03.19 | languish | when I am |
| 16:03.19 | blau | hey guys |
| 16:03.26 | languish | I have no issue with being wrong |
| 16:03.31 | blau | im working on an sms groups app |
| 16:03.32 | DannyB | cmonex: so can you figure out the path through the code that actaully causes this to happen? |
| 16:03.41 | DannyB | it certainly doesn't happen simply because you say no enough times |
| 16:03.59 | languish | But I doubt very much that an update that was *just* received, will install itself unprompted, from the evidence I've seen to the contrary |
| 16:04.07 | tauno | cmonex, hmm.. yeah.. seems updates can be two types.. either they ask you forever or they ask you X times and then forse update... and this is scary IMHO |
| 16:04.21 | tauno | force* |
| 16:04.36 | cmonex | so... set it to ask 0 times? |
| 16:04.39 | languish | right, but none so far download and auto-install without a prompt |
| 16:04.57 | languish | it may happen in the future |
| 16:04.58 | DannyB | cmonex: no, that wouldn't work, since there is no "how many times to ask" |
| 16:05.01 | tauno | languish, only seeing that this is possible gives me chills.. |
| 16:05.10 | languish | tauno I agree with that |
| 16:05.13 | DannyB | instead only "how often should i ask" |
| 16:05.14 | olinex | better that way :) |
| 16:05.19 | Laz | long now = SystemClock.elapsedRealtime(); |
| 16:05.20 | Laz | <PROTECTED> |
| 16:05.20 | Laz | <PROTECTED> |
| 16:05.20 | Laz | <PROTECTED> |
| 16:05.20 | Laz | <PROTECTED> |
| 16:05.20 | Laz | <PROTECTED> |
| 16:05.22 | Laz | <PROTECTED> |
| 16:05.33 | DannyB | look through getNextPromptTime |
| 16:06.23 | neekers | languish: did you have any problems with the automatic update? |
| 16:06.28 | DannyB | see when forever becomes false |
| 16:06.30 | orci | I installed the android SDK how can I run the emulator to use with operaMini.apk for example? |
| 16:06.33 | languish | neekers, none. |
| 16:06.34 | blau | any suggesions on what needs to go into the sms groups? edit should just be a list of all numbers on your phone will multiple choice, or should it be a list thatyucan add or delete from one at a time |
| 16:06.41 | neekers | me niether |
| 16:06.42 | olinex | if (intervals.endsWith(",...")) { |
| 16:06.42 | olinex | 86 forever = true; |
| 16:06.42 | olinex | 87 intervals = intervals.substring(0, intervals.length() - 4); |
| 16:06.42 | olinex | 88 } else { |
| 16:06.42 | olinex | 89 forever = false; |
| 16:06.43 | olinex | 90 } |
| 16:07.04 | orci | actually I installed the eclipse plugin only, does this mean I do not have an emulator? |
| 16:07.14 | olinex | that's from getNextPromptTime |
| 16:07.30 | DannyB | and now see if anyone actually calls the updater with a promptMinutes interval that doesn't include ... |
| 16:07.31 | languish | blau, and multi-select if possible :) |
| 16:07.34 | DannyB | :) |
| 16:07.39 | blau | orci, you have to install the SDK? |
| 16:08.02 | orci | blau, not sure do I have to? |
| 16:08.07 | tauno | DannyB, why the hell is this check there then? |
| 16:08.36 | tauno | DannyB, I guess it's not without a reason :P |
| 16:08.37 | olinex | and how do we do that DannyB |
| 16:08.52 | olinex | so you've basically gone from "Google can't do that" to "Google don't do that" |
| 16:09.02 | olinex | doesn't really lend you much credibilitz |
| 16:09.06 | olinex | *credibility |
| 16:09.12 | olinex | fucking Hungarian keyboards |
| 16:09.14 | DannyB | olinex: uh, it's an activity. you have the source, you can look |
| 16:09.23 | olinex | ...yeah my bf can't get used to these keyboards :) |
| 16:09.28 | olinex | I have the source code |
| 16:09.33 | olinex | not a bloody update |
| 16:10.01 | eggy | ta do |
| 16:10.01 | DannyB | you have the update zips too! |
| 16:10.16 | olinex | no DannyB, my bf doesn't have them... |
| 16:10.27 | languish | then he shouldn't wank until he does :) |
| 16:10.28 | incandenza | but not all possible future updates |
| 16:10.28 | olinex | however I have them, so we can look up this for him |
| 16:10.31 | tauno | DannyB, yeah, but future updates can still do it? |
| 16:10.36 | incandenza | so even if none of them so far do it, they might later |
| 16:10.37 | olinex | incandenza is so correct ;Õ |
| 16:10.37 | DannyB | tauno: there are legit times you may need to force an update |
| 16:10.39 | olinex | ;P |
| 16:10.49 | languish | DannyB, that would be the kill switch :) |
| 16:10.51 | tauno | DannyB, are you a linux or windows user? |
| 16:10.54 | olinex | ok. DannyB have you lived in a dictatorship? |
| 16:11.06 | DannyB | languish: no, but i have watched phones that break cell phone networks :) |
| 16:11.13 | languish | DannyB, nod. |
| 16:11.19 | DannyB | due to bad protocol implementations, etc |
| 16:11.31 | languish | yeah, I expect a rash of those any day now. |
| 16:11.35 | languish | *sigh* |
| 16:11.41 | olinex | why would you? |
| 16:11.43 | DannyB | languish: it happened with iphone 2.0 |
| 16:11.46 | Laz | then those phone networks suck |
| 16:11.48 | DannyB | hence 2.0.1 |
| 16:11.59 | languish | olinex, because there are people out there that will dev apps just to mess with everyone else. |
| 16:12.02 | tauno | DannyB, I have also seen computers break computer networks. Now imagine if Windows included code that allows someone to just FORCE UPDATE it to never start again... cool with that? |
| 16:12.12 | DannyB | tauno: it uh, does include such code! |
| 16:12.22 | DannyB | hth! |
| 16:12.25 | olinex | languish hmm i've yet to see that happen |
| 16:12.26 | languish | olinex, and there are devs that just have no clue and don't test properly. They bang out unproven code and release it. |
| 16:12.45 | DannyB | also, the kill switch press neglected to note that only apps you download from market can be killswitched. but that's neither here nor there :) |
| 16:12.51 | olinex | bad apps tend to get bad names, people aren't going to get wide publicity for device malware |
| 16:13.11 | DannyB | it would be wildly stupid of us to not have a way to force update phones if we really needed to |
| 16:13.12 | olinex | the overriding reason for google to force an update is purely to prevent people from being able to do something interesting with their device |
| 16:13.17 | olinex | the current update is material proof |
| 16:13.18 | DannyB | bullshit |
| 16:13.21 | languish | DannyB, is that a function of the Market app, or just a restriction due to the market terms? |
| 16:13.30 | DannyB | if we didn't want people to do interseting things with their device we never would have released the source |
| 16:13.35 | olinex | not only did google plug the bug, they took out the ability to get yourself root |
| 16:13.42 | olinex | DannyB you are with google? i.e. a dev? |
| 16:13.51 | DannyB | i am |
| 16:13.51 | languish | olinex is gonna love this answer |
| 16:13.55 | languish | aww |
| 16:14.00 | languish | you gave him the short answer |
| 16:14.01 | languish | lol |
| 16:14.03 | DannyB | ;) |
| 16:14.12 | tauno | DannyB, any link to somewhere to back this up? (windows kill switch I mean) :) |
| 16:14.21 | olinex | him? her. that was gf's (cmonex) question =) |
| 16:14.24 | olinex | wait |
| 16:14.34 | olinex | DannyB works as a dev and also didn't know that Google can force a FOTA |
| 16:14.40 | DannyB | i knew |
| 16:14.41 | olinex | now THAT *is* scary |
| 16:14.45 | languish | olinex haha well you're both using the same nick |
| 16:14.46 | DannyB | where did i say i didn't know |
| 16:14.53 | olinex | oh, so what, propaganda? |
| 16:15.04 | DannyB | no |
| 16:15.06 | DannyB | the discussion was |
| 16:15.09 | DannyB | "does rc30 force update" |
| 16:15.18 | DannyB | I pointed out how to figure it out |
| 16:15.21 | DannyB | where is the propaganda? |
| 16:15.25 | olinex | <DannyB> cmonex: no, that wouldn't work, since there is no "how many times to ask" |
| 16:15.35 | DannyB | there is no how many times to ask |
| 16:15.40 | DannyB | there is only "when should i next ask" |
| 16:15.45 | DannyB | which is exactly what i said |
| 16:15.47 | languish | Well that was everyone's discussion but olinex's who was discussing potential forced updates at any point |
| 16:15.51 | tauno | DannyB, are you in the legal team? ;) |
| 16:15.52 | olinex | oh, so now you're just being clever with words |
| 16:15.58 | DannyB | clever with words? |
| 16:16.04 | DannyB | I'm saying what the code does |
| 16:16.25 | DannyB | you are just grabbing lines out of context and pretending i didn't say things 5 seconds later |
| 16:16.26 | olinex | you're just being anal retentive over the wording to describe the end result of the code |
| 16:16.35 | DannyB | ? |
| 16:16.44 | olinex | we're taking YOU out of context? |
| 16:16.49 | languish | DannyB, olinex is on a mission. |
| 16:16.51 | olinex | pot, kettle, black |
| 16:16.55 | languish | And he's a bit.. out there. |
| 16:17.03 | DannyB | 11:05:12] <DannyB> instead only "how often should i ask" |
| 16:17.11 | languish | Don't expect reason, and I suspect he's high too. |
| 16:17.17 | DannyB | i figure as much |
| 16:17.18 | tauno | [18:14] <tauno> DannyB, any link to somewhere to back this up? (windows kill switch I mean) :) |
| 16:17.20 | DannyB | no skin off my back |
| 16:17.22 | olinex | I think we were pretty clear that we said they can force a FOTA |
| 16:17.25 | DannyB | tauno: they've done it before |
| 16:17.34 | tauno | again, evidence? |
| 16:17.36 | DannyB | tauno: they kill swithced a bunch of chinese pirated copies |
| 16:17.59 | Laz | They can force it on virgin g1's but not on mine :P |
| 16:18.01 | DannyB | search microsoft kill swithc windows |
| 16:18.08 | DannyB | and you'll see they removed it in vista sp1 |
| 16:18.13 | DannyB | but prior to that, they could kill switch machines |
| 16:18.14 | DannyB | hth |
| 16:18.32 | DannyB | they kill switched some chinese machines using WGA before |
| 16:18.41 | DannyB | you couldn't login, only enter a new product key :) |
| 16:19.06 | tauno | DannyB, you see.. they removed it :) it isn't there anymore ;) |
| 16:19.14 | olinex | although you could recover by going into safe mode i believe |
| 16:19.29 | olinex | as winlogon.exe doesn't check out licensing in safe mode |
| 16:19.47 | languish | This is a rediculous discussion now. |
| 16:19.57 | languish | *ridiculous? |
| 16:19.58 | olinex | a useful trick someone made involved writing a hook driver that makes winlogon always think you were in safe mode |
| 16:20.01 | languish | should check |
| 16:20.06 | olinex | ridiculous |
| 16:20.39 | olinex | well, I think the argument was that a) forcing a FOTA to download is evil |
| 16:20.53 | olinex | and b) inevitable update is also evil |
| 16:21.12 | DannyB | you are going to be hard pressed to find a phone that doesn't have this |
| 16:21.13 | Laz | olinex you installed the modified RC30? |
| 16:21.15 | DannyB | hth |
| 16:21.28 | olinex | Laz: we don't have a G1... yet |
| 16:21.32 | DannyB | lol |
| 16:21.45 | olinex | find a phone that doesn't have what? |
| 16:21.46 | tauno | yes, this is getting pretty rediculous. If MS would include a FORCE update mechanism that can replace the whole system if it wanted to, people would go crazy. If Google does the same, people just live with it. |
| 16:22.00 | olinex | DannyB, we have a lot of HTC devices |
| 16:22.06 | DannyB | tauno: find me a phone that doesn't include a way to force updates |
| 16:22.07 | olinex | and they don't, and can't do this |
| 16:22.10 | tauno | In my opinion this is false. It's just my opinion.. |
| 16:22.14 | DannyB | now that's just bullshit |
| 16:22.19 | olinex | DannyB: I've never seen one before G1 that did this.. |
| 16:22.39 | olinex | no Danny, it's not, there is nothing inside the WM ROM that allows HTC to put an update on the device |
| 16:22.52 | olinex | all updates have to be downloaded by the user and flashed over USB |
| 16:23.05 | Laz | DannyB: The modified G1 doesnt force auto updates ;p |
| 16:23.10 | olinex | FOTA is supported for the radio, but not implemented |
| 16:23.47 | olinex | so DannyB why do you think this statement was BS? |
| 16:24.10 | DannyB | becuase they can force update the radio |
| 16:24.17 | olinex | nope |
| 16:24.20 | DannyB | okay dude |
| 16:24.24 | olinex | there's no listener on the OS |
| 16:24.27 | olinex | nothing that calls home |
| 16:24.37 | eggy | ls |
| 16:24.49 | languish | someone give eggy a listing |
| 16:24.49 | DannyB | anyway, i'm going to go enjoy my sunday |
| 16:24.59 | eggy | wrong window =p |
| 16:25.00 | olinex | it's ok DannyB =) |
| 16:25.02 | languish | :) |
| 16:25.17 | olinex | our sunday ends soon, past 5PM here |
| 16:25.23 | olinex | :/ |
| 16:25.46 | tauno | DannyB, now "[18:22] <DannyB> tauno: find me a phone that doesn't include a way to force updates" is not a very good argument isn't it? I doubt you guys did it just becasue everyone else is doing it.. You did this for a specific reason.. and whatever that reason might be, it's wrong in my opinion -there just isn't an excuse for this in my book.. sorry. |
| 16:26.19 | DannyB | tauno: if your option comes down to "release a phone with a way to force update", and "don't release a phone", you are saying you would choose the latter? |
| 16:26.20 | olinex | I thought Google devs might be a bit more clued up than this |
| 16:26.29 | languish | tauno, the phone is on t-mobiles network. You think t-mobile wants a phone on their network they can't control? |
| 16:26.35 | languish | for legal purposes |
| 16:26.41 | olinex | still, if this is the road you're going down, you are absolutely going to LOVE us as time goes by |
| 16:26.48 | languish | I mean, they KNOW people will hack the phones. |
| 16:26.53 | DannyB | i hate to break it to you |
| 16:26.56 | DannyB | since you seem to think we care |
| 16:27.06 | DannyB | but if you want to go hack your phone |
| 16:27.09 | DannyB | personally, i say "have fun" |
| 16:27.17 | tauno | DannyB, so someone else gave you the cchoice that either Android supports this feature or there will NEVER be phones that use that OS? |
| 16:27.38 | languish | tauno, Google just makes an OS and helps with the overall platform |
| 16:27.45 | DannyB | tauno: i'm just asking questions here :) |
| 16:28.00 | olinex | DannyB: wrong impression there |
| 16:28.04 | languish | tauno, google isn't the "isp" and the "G1" isn't "Google's phone" |
| 16:28.22 | olinex | btw tauno, I was told by some other google dev that the G1 is like this, |
| 16:28.25 | michaelnovakjr__ | this whole root access thing is stupid |
| 16:28.30 | olinex | but other android phones won1t necessarily be locked down |
| 16:28.30 | michaelnovakjr__ | people need to get over it |
| 16:28.38 | Laz | Never!! |
| 16:29.10 | cmonex | michaelnovakjr__: well no, because it's the gateway to being able to flash the device with your own shit |
| 16:29.14 | languish | olinex, the device's state of lockdownedness is up to the carrier that distributes the phone. |
| 16:29.15 | tauno | and that's why I don't see how they would care what tmo says.. just make a damn good OS and thats it.. if a mobile netwok operator wants his special stuff.. then they can include it (and they would have to disclose it to the buyers of the phones that they can still do whatever they want to do with the phones.. even after the phones are legally not theirs anymore).. it's an open source project.. I just don't see it why this should be included i |
| 16:29.32 | michaelnovakjr__ | cmonex: like... |
| 16:29.34 | DannyB | tauno: hey great, so then we have a phone OS that nobody can use |
| 16:29.36 | cmonex | languish: this is what I hinted to above, yes |
| 16:29.39 | DannyB | that would work out amazing :) |
| 16:30.13 | cmonex | michaelnovakjr: like anything :) |
| 16:30.13 | tauno | DannyB, so you say that there are no mobile hardware makers in the world that will include android when it doesn't have a force update mechanism? I call BS ;) |
| 16:30.14 | DannyB | hold on, wife's parents leaving |
| 16:30.18 | cmonex | see xda-developers |
| 16:30.23 | cmonex | custom roms are flooding it.. |
| 16:30.33 | cmonex | to be honest I don't know why they are this popular, but they are :) |
| 16:30.35 | languish | tauno, the problem there is.. certain aspects of the device are protected by the carrier, google couldn't legally put some of the drivers in, so the OS wouldn't work fully on the devices. |
| 16:30.45 | *** join/#android summatusmentis (n=summatus@keymaster.tproa.net) |
| 16:30.54 | cmonex | in any case, your updater mechanism can only do so much to lock people down |
| 16:30.58 | languish | And then no one would be interested |
| 16:31.17 | languish | The google devs have stated repeatedly.. they wish the G1 weren't so locked down. It wasn't their call. |
| 16:31.42 | languish | It wasn't even googles call |
| 16:31.55 | languish | but then, this is just the G1, not "android" that is so locked down |
| 16:32.02 | languish | (and not so locked down at the same time) |
| 16:32.27 | languish | I don't like every choice made with this device.. but at least put the blame where it belongs. |
| 16:32.47 | languish | I think Google should have told TMO to go screw themselves on releasing it as unfinished as it is |
| 16:32.55 | languish | but that was TMO's call |
| 16:33.03 | languish | they wanted it out "now" not later. |
| 16:33.12 | languish | so sayeth a few gdevs |
| 16:33.57 | languish | So if you want to evangelize, just do it in the right peoples faces |
| 16:35.07 | languish | or at least make the correct points at google that are actually googles fault |
| 16:35.16 | tauno | I think that google should stand up and say to tmo that "you can implement your locking down part of the code if you wish.. it's open source afterall and we won't implement crappy stuff in our main branch just because YOU want to have total controll over the devices that you don't legally own.. do it yourself if you want to..we don't care" I know that this is not possible in todays world.. I'm living in a perfect world here where people are go |
| 16:35.41 | michaelnovakjr__ | except you sign the contract :) |
| 16:35.43 | languish | you cut off after where people are |
| 16:35.49 | michaelnovakjr__ | just get over it already :) |
| 16:35.56 | languish | michaelnovakjr, no he buys it off ebay |
| 16:35.59 | languish | :/ |
| 16:36.18 | languish | or lives somewhere there's no t-mobile service, but wants a G1 anyway |
| 16:36.42 | tauno | even if I bought it directly from tmo - is it really written in the contract that they can do whatever they want to do with your phone after you have bought it?.. just wondering |
| 16:36.43 | languish | or gets it from t-mobile, but tries to make it run off the t-zones plan |
| 16:36.47 | michaelnovakjr__ | after having an iPhone i can't complain :) |
| 16:36.49 | languish | and complains about data usage charges |
| 16:37.21 | tauno | languish, I don't complain about charges - I complain over the fact that I can't control them :) |
| 16:37.22 | cmonex | languish: contrary to your belief, it wasn't a mission :) |
| 16:37.24 | ahaberlacho | Anyone compared the size of Google to the size of T-Mobile lately? |
| 16:37.29 | michaelnovakjr__ | tauno: i believe they have control of usage on their network |
| 16:37.49 | *** join/#android Dougie187 (n=doug@68.35.245.156) |
| 16:37.54 | languish | cmonex, it was a rant :) and sometimes an unstable one :/ I agree with the concepts completely, but the presentation needs work. |
| 16:37.59 | DannyB | back |
| 16:38.03 | tauno | michaelnovakjr__ but if I'm not on their network, they can still force the update and do whatever they want with my device - is this also in their contract? :) |
| 16:38.05 | DannyB | where were we in burning google in effigy |
| 16:38.06 | cmonex | it wasn't a presentation either :) |
| 16:38.15 | cmonex | just a rant in a channel... we believe in free speech :P |
| 16:38.17 | languish | cmonex, that's not what that use of presentation means |
| 16:38.20 | cmonex | ok, we are going now |
| 16:38.25 | Laz | Weird the g1 says im connected to a tmobile hotspot but when i find all the information about the hotspot it has my phones ip as if the phone is the hotspot |
| 16:38.29 | michaelnovakjr__ | tauno: if you aren't on their network that shouldn't eork |
| 16:38.38 | cmonex | back in 1 hr, then my bf will have his own nick too :) (he was using my pc now.) |
| 16:38.48 | tauno | michaelnovakjr__ wait what?.. |
| 16:38.49 | cmonex | olipro, btw :) if anyone got a WM htc phone here.. |
| 16:38.58 | ahaberlacho | So, uh, why have none of you taken the open-source code, put it on a device, and sold is as an unlocked product to the developers who obviously want it? What is stopping you? |
| 16:40.03 | ahaberlacho | I'm pretty sure there are no technical or legal barriers. |
| 16:40.06 | DannyB | ahaberlacho: free market fails us again :( |
| 16:40.12 | ahaberlacho | (Although I'm not a lawyer) |
| 16:40.17 | ahaberlacho | I know someone who is! |
| 16:40.26 | DannyB | the only issue you'd hit is the audio/video codecs issue |
| 16:40.29 | cmonex | ok one last thing... I would also ask why nobody uses the SPL's (bootloader) flashing ability; and why did USB connection get disabled in production phones? |
| 16:40.29 | KNY | ahaberlacho, isn't that what the openmoko project is all about? |
| 16:40.32 | DannyB | but if you worked with a pre-existing phone carrier |
| 16:40.36 | DannyB | you'd be fine |
| 16:40.38 | cmonex | (USB in bootloader, i.e. "fastboot") |
| 16:40.42 | DannyB | s/carrier/handset maker/ |
| 16:41.05 | ahaberlacho | KNY: Sure, but their software sucks and their organization is a total failure. Android just handed you the software, and organization is just a logistics issue. I ask again: why aren't people doing this? |
| 16:41.11 | ahaberlacho | Or are we assuming that people are? |
| 16:41.17 | DannyB | cmonex: i use the bootloader flashing all the time :) |
| 16:41.22 | KNY | ahaberlacho, I believe they're moving to android |
| 16:41.49 | cmonex | DannyB: this is why I am asking. why did USB get disabled in production phones? and why are there no updates to flash from bootloader? |
| 16:42.37 | DannyB | cmonex: Don't remember whether we were asked or whether we did it. I believe tmo asked us to. |
| 16:42.47 | cmonex | what reason could they have for that? |
| 16:42.50 | DannyB | cmonex: but don't quote me on that ;) |
| 16:42.52 | cmonex | tmobile WM HTC phones have the ability |
| 16:43.02 | cmonex | (WM=windows mobile of course) |
| 16:43.04 | DannyB | the WM phones are not open source |
| 16:43.14 | DannyB | as much as you guys do to them |
| 16:43.22 | cmonex | how does that have anything to do with the SPL disabling on g1? |
| 16:43.31 | *** join/#android shackan (n=frob@host51-146-dynamic.3-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) |
| 16:43.33 | cmonex | the SPL is not open source, btw. |
| 16:43.40 | cmonex | i mean not even on the G1. |
| 16:43.43 | *** join/#android lresende (n=luckbr19@c-67-169-36-7.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
| 16:43.58 | languish | cmonex, if you want to know the reasons for restrictions that tmo put in place, ask tmo? |
| 16:43.59 | eldenz | when G2 coming? |
| 16:44.01 | cmonex | nor is the radio :D |
| 16:44.07 | DannyB | cmonex: you have a very good appreciate of the technical side of this, but very little of the legal side |
| 16:44.11 | eldenz | with beter resolution |
| 16:44.12 | cmonex | languish: how am i to know if it was even tmo? |
| 16:44.15 | DannyB | s/appreciate/appreciation/ |
| 16:44.33 | cmonex | DannyB: this is why i'm asking about the reasons. |
| 16:44.41 | eldenz | s/beter/better/ |
| 16:44.48 | DannyB | yes, but you implicitly assume the reasons are rational |
| 16:44.51 | languish | cmonex, if you paid attention on the channel.. you'd know from dev comments that the majority of the issues you're complaining about were enforced by tmo |
| 16:44.52 | DannyB | and logical |
| 16:44.55 | cmonex | I did not assume anything, DannyB |
| 16:44.56 | languish | they wanted the phone locked down |
| 16:44.56 | cmonex | =) |
| 16:45.14 | eldenz | s/e/a/ |
| 16:45.19 | DannyB | cmonex: Sure, because you asked "wy would they do that" |
| 16:45.20 | eldenz | s/e/a/g |
| 16:45.25 | DannyB | the answer is "because" |
| 16:45.29 | eldenz | lol fun, sry |
| 16:45.30 | cmonex | languish: devs never explicitly stated it was tmo. see DannyB's reply abvoe. they always say they don't remember... |
| 16:45.35 | cmonex | interesting that too |
| 16:45.39 | *** join/#android famast (n=famast@c-71-206-79-22.hsd1.fl.comcast.net) |
| 16:45.40 | DannyB | cmonex: i can look it up if you like |
| 16:45.46 | languish | cmonex, yes they did. |
| 16:45.47 | cmonex | then please do :) |
| 16:45.48 | DannyB | cmonex: whether it was us or tmo |
| 16:45.55 | cmonex | languish: hmm never when i asked.. |
| 16:45.56 | languish | cmonex you may not have been on the channel long enough |
| 16:46.01 | cmonex | and i asked a few times |
| 16:46.02 | DannyB | it's simply a sunday and the people i'd need to ask are not around |
| 16:46.10 | cmonex | cool, DannyB |
| 16:46.12 | languish | cmonex, it may have been how you asked :) |
| 16:46.23 | ahaberlacho | I'd be pretty sure that it was at T-Mobile's request that the phones are locked. |
| 16:46.36 | ahaberlacho | But as Danny said, I don't think either of us are willing to speak for the company on that. :) |
| 16:46.44 | languish | cmonex, the gdevs at various times have redressed this issue |
| 16:46.44 | cmonex | ahaberlacho: my q wasn't about the locking - I'm just curious why there are no NBH updates |
| 16:46.59 | ahaberlacho | I was actually out on paternity leave when all the image-signing stuff was implemented and tested. |
| 16:47.03 | cmonex | as it is clear that the SPL can receive a signed NBH update even in production phones off the SD |
| 16:47.05 | ahaberlacho | NBH? |
| 16:47.10 | cmonex | DREAIMG.NBH |
| 16:47.17 | tauno | DannyB, one more thing.. do you really believe that when you hadn't implemented user-unfriendly stuff that tmo wanted, then Android would never become a widely used platform? :) |
| 16:47.26 | cmonex | we just had a guess at this, as the WM HTC SPL's use ****IMG.NBH to flash from SD... |
| 16:47.41 | cmonex | and yes the G1 detects it and the error code is the same as a WM SPL would give you if the NBH is not signed |
| 16:47.45 | cmonex | amazing |
| 16:48.04 | ahaberlacho | I'm pretty sure that if we had launched a completely unlocked and unsubsidized phone for twice the cost and with no carrier backing, that we would not be hwere we are today. |
| 16:48.11 | DannyB | right |
| 16:48.19 | DannyB | i wouldn't say "never" |
| 16:48.29 | DannyB | I would say "not in the next 5 years" |
| 16:48.33 | cmonex | I'm just surprised that USB is disabled, and that NBH's aren't redist'd, just these OTA's :) |
| 16:48.41 | cmonex | thanks for asking them, DannyB |
| 16:48.43 | ahaberlacho | And T-Mobile and HTC were both pretty crucial to making the G-1 a successful device. |
| 16:48.58 | cmonex | hehe, i think google's name alone sells it already :) |
| 16:48.58 | languish | cmonex but they are redistributed, by the underground :) |
| 16:49.13 | languish | cmonex and everyone knew that was going to happen eventually |
| 16:49.14 | cmonex | languish: Ive yet to see a real DREAIMG.NBH |
| 16:49.27 | languish | "eventually' |
| 16:49.36 | ahaberlacho | cmonex : Yeah, but it would sell it to 10,000 die-hards who would spend all their time getting root on it and not turning it onto a profitable product. |
| 16:49.55 | cmonex | what I do find interesting really is the exclusivity T-Mobile got on this; if anything, Google should be positioned to lay down the law to T-Mob |
| 16:49.59 | ahaberlacho | I still don't know what an NBH is or what you want. |
| 16:50.01 | cmonex | (oops my bf stole keyb again) |
| 16:50.13 | cmonex | ahaberlacho: I (well, we) come from WM HTC phones |
| 16:50.26 | ahaberlacho | cmonex : Once again, check the relative sizes of T-Mobile and Google. Also, Google doesn't exactly own a nationwide 3G network. :) |
| 16:50.28 | cmonex | NBH is the file extension of the updates and the bootloader (SPL) flashes it |
| 16:50.48 | cmonex | ahaberlacho: my guess is ATT already took the iphone eh ;) |
| 16:50.54 | ahaberlacho | But are you complaining that you can't install updates from the sdcard? People have been doing that. |
| 16:51.01 | ahaberlacho | It's just that you can't generate your updates, it seems. |
| 16:51.01 | cmonex | the iPhone is still the iPhone |
| 16:51.13 | cmonex | it's not the ATT ePhone |
| 16:51.16 | DannyB | ahaberlacho: we almost did :) |
| 16:51.20 | DannyB | own a nationwide 3g network |
| 16:51.27 | cmonex | the brand awareness is centered around Apple |
| 16:51.48 | cmonex | are you saying Google aren't confident enough about their brand awareness to put their own name on the device? |
| 16:51.48 | ahaberlacho | DannyB : Oh, sure, but that would make less sense than YouTube. :) |
| 16:51.55 | cmonex | and yes, I realise the "G" is for Google |
| 16:52.07 | olinex | i hate how he steals my keyb.. |
| 16:52.30 | DannyB | beat him down |
| 16:52.32 | languish | cmonex, tell olinex to use own of his winmo devices to irc. |
| 16:52.36 | languish | :| |
| 16:52.36 | ahaberlacho | cmonex : No, but Google wants to put their name on _all_ devices, and if it's too much on the G-1, then people think we're too in bed with T-Mobile and don't want the name on their device. |
| 16:52.40 | blau | it says google on the back |
| 16:52.43 | olinex | but it's still the "T-mobile G1" which in branding terms, and definitely in my mind, labels you as their bitch |
| 16:52.47 | olinex | languish: cool idea |
| 16:52.51 | ahaberlacho | Google wants to be associated with Android, not the T-Mobile G1. |
| 16:53.13 | ttuttle | It's the "T-Mobile G1 with Google". |
| 16:53.24 | olinex | ahaberlacho: good explanation |
| 16:53.26 | olinex | btw |
| 16:53.40 | olinex | [17:48:52] <ahaberlacho> But are you complaining that you can't install updates from the sdcard? People have been doing that. |
| 16:53.47 | olinex | no, i'm complaning about removing USB from SPL |
| 16:53.53 | olinex | (SPL : htc bootloader) |
| 16:54.08 | DannyB | so update the bootloaer |
| 16:54.19 | DannyB | you have it from similar HTC devices, no? |
| 16:54.26 | ahaberlacho | So you're complaining that you can't install updates from the bootloader? Why not use the sdcard? :) |
| 16:54.27 | olinex | is that a joke? |
| 16:54.30 | MikHel | Hi guys! |
| 16:54.46 | DannyB | olinex: i've written bootloaders for embedded boards, so no |
| 16:54.48 | olinex | ahaberlacho: it takes signed NBH apparently. and I've yet to see one out there |
| 16:55.00 | MikHel | is back online and sees there's a big marketing philosophy discussion going on! :D |
| 16:55.05 | olinex | DannyB: so yes you were joking... "similar" is not enough. |
| 16:55.17 | DannyB | you can get the target board specs fairly easily |
| 16:55.21 | ahaberlacho | It's olinex's way or the highway! |
| 16:55.22 | DannyB | it's not like those are secret |
| 16:55.36 | olinex | ahaberlacho: I don't see the point of personal remarks |
| 16:55.43 | olinex | DannyB: htc keeps it all secret |
| 16:55.45 | ahaberlacho | All you need is a soldering iron and a jtag rig! :) |
| 16:55.58 | DannyB | right |
| 16:56.00 | MikHel | Has anybody been able to play music audio to a bluetooth headset? |
| 16:56.07 | cmonex | ahaberlacho: and the testpoints and their order |
| 16:56.20 | DannyB | you are talking about a few weeks of work |
| 16:56.28 | DannyB | look, if swetland can do it, ..... |
| 16:56.29 | languish | MikHel, the G1 doesn't support stereo bluetooth, yet. |
| 16:56.29 | ahaberlacho | MikHel : A2DP is not in this version of the software, but you can assume that we're working on it. |
| 16:56.32 | cmonex | what's the purpose of that work then? |
| 16:56.44 | cmonex | thisi s getting pretty pointless |
| 16:56.44 | DannyB | then you have a bootloader with USB support, which you seem to want |
| 16:56.54 | DannyB | since you don't seem to like updates from sdcard |
| 16:56.57 | tauno | DannyB, I'm sure it wouldn't be as quick as it is currently.. But what about releasing A GREAT product that the users LOVE and are willing to pay more becasue it's just so damn good? instead of releasing a stripped version of it just so people would pick it up more quickly.. Other than that - there are markets (and not only very small ones) where the operators have no role in what phones people buy - there's no operator branding/subsidizing or |
| 16:56.58 | cmonex | all I asked was *why* was the USB removed and why are there no NBH updates |
| 16:57.08 | cmonex | SD is fine, I just wondered about the reasob |
| 16:57.10 | cmonex | reason* |
| 16:57.17 | DannyB | what do we need to update in NBH right now? |
| 16:57.19 | MikHel | languish, ahaberlacho: ah! OK I guess I will have to be patient. A bit disappointing though. |
| 16:57.33 | cmonex | languish: my bf doesnt want to use WM phone for irc, he decided to leave when i didnt let him access the keyb :P |
| 16:57.35 | ahaberlacho | MikHel : Yeah, I wasn't so happy about it either. |
| 16:57.39 | DannyB | and i told you i'd find out whether usb was removed by us or tmo in a day or two :) |
| 16:57.39 | languish | MikHel, yeah.. I was disappointed too :| |
| 16:57.51 | cmonex | DannyB: all I asked was *why* was the USB removed and why are there no NBH updates. wondered about the reasons is *all*. |
| 16:57.52 | languish | cmonex, bit of a hothead 'eh |
| 16:57.56 | MikHel | Let's hope it comes up soon... |
| 16:58.03 | cmonex | DannyB ok cool, thanks for that =) |
| 16:58.12 | cmonex | languish: that's an understatement |
| 16:58.14 | cmonex | hehe |
| 16:58.18 | languish | :D |
| 16:58.32 | languish | cmonex, my real question was.. how high was he today? |
| 16:58.32 | cmonex | ok, reaally going now :) |
| 16:58.33 | languish | :| |
| 16:58.38 | cmonex | oh? he never took drugs |
| 16:58.41 | cmonex | heh |
| 16:58.47 | languish | define drugs |
| 16:58.56 | languish | proscribed pharms? |
| 16:59.00 | cmonex | whatever makes you high |
| 16:59.00 | languish | :P |
| 16:59.17 | languish | he's on something, and if, maybe should be :| |
| 16:59.22 | languish | *if not |
| 16:59.31 | cmonex | nah he's not that bad :) |
| 16:59.34 | languish | but yeah, tell'im to keep up the good fight |
| 16:59.38 | cmonex | heheh |
| 16:59.41 | tauno | DannyB, I know you won't ever do it becasue Google is a company after all that wants to get as much money and as quickly as it can :) But againg.. I'm living in a perfect world here.. and these kind of things make me a little sad :/ |
| 16:59.42 | cmonex | ok bye bye |
| 16:59.43 | languish | at least he has ideals |
| 16:59.46 | languish | o/ |
| 16:59.56 | DannyB | tauno: yes because we make so much money off these phones |
| 17:00.11 | languish | lol |
| 17:01.18 | tauno | DannyB, err.. more G1s -> more Ad revenue for google.. how can you say that you are not making money? ;) |
| 17:01.20 | languish | I'm actually curiously waiting for Googles break even announcement on android |
| 17:01.26 | ahaberlacho | Anyway, to come back to another discussion: has anyone built a "kill app" that would make me or anyone want root access on their phone? Or is it still just theoreetical? |
| 17:01.42 | *** join/#android cbeust (n=cbeust@64-142-66-175.dsl.static.sonic.net) |
| 17:01.58 | *** part/#android Dougie187 (n=doug@68.35.245.156) |
| 17:01.59 | SplasPood | ahaberlacho: you can hax your startup logo ;) |
| 17:02.17 | *** join/#android cbeust_ (n=cbeust@72.14.224.1) |
| 17:02.19 | languish | yeah, full theming is a start |
| 17:02.34 | DannyB | tauno: look, in a perfect world, you'd say "screw everyone", release it completely unsubsidized, and nobody would use it. Sometimes you have to make compromises the first time just to get things out there so you can do better things later. as ahaberlach said, you guys are more than free to take the source and build your own phone. that's in fact, part of the point! |
| 17:02.37 | SplasPood | well I wouldn't say *full* |
| 17:02.42 | SplasPood | thats the only thing, I thought... |
| 17:02.45 | languish | I wanna put a party hat on my android startup animation |
| 17:02.53 | tauno | G1's will drive people to Googles products -> Google makes more money. The faster the G1 sells the faster Google makes money.. isn't that hard is it.. |
| 17:02.56 | DannyB | ahaberlacho: i wanna put the cylon animation back |
| 17:03.15 | languish | DannyB, can you show us the cylon animation? |
| 17:03.21 | SplasPood | yea |
| 17:03.23 | SplasPood | I was about to ask |
| 17:03.29 | DannyB | isn't it still in the early sdk's? |
| 17:03.30 | ahaberlacho | languish : Fix in your mind the image of a cylon eye going back and forth. |
| 17:03.34 | ahaberlacho | Ok, you've got it. |
| 17:03.40 | ahaberlacho | DannyB : I believe so. |
| 17:03.45 | languish | I dunno |
| 17:03.45 | SplasPood | ahh |
| 17:03.53 | languish | ahaberlacho :) |
| 17:03.58 | SplasPood | Maybe I should learn how to hack up JF's RC30 so I can drop my own logo in |
| 17:04.25 | ahaberlacho | You can also hum the "Knight Rider" theme and think of K.I.T.T. if you're old-school. |
| 17:04.27 | tauno | DannyB, My point is that there are markets where no phones are subsidized.. these markets are not that small.. why not release a unsubsidized phone there (becasue it's an even playing field) - if it's a bad phone/OS nobody will buy it as you sayd.. if it's a good phone/OS people will buy it more than other phones.. |
| 17:04.34 | SplasPood | ahaberlacho: same thought |
| 17:04.40 | ahaberlacho | And if you mention the non-Hasslhoff Knight Rider I'll do what I can to get you banned from the channel. |
| 17:04.50 | languish | ahh to me, cylons are older school than kitt |
| 17:04.53 | languish | :| |
| 17:04.56 | DannyB | tauno: because then your platform dies a horrible death because nobody uses it? |
| 17:05.13 | DannyB | See: BeOS |
| 17:05.24 | DannyB | It was better than what was out there |
| 17:05.31 | DannyB | it was not put in front of a big enough audience for various reasons |
| 17:05.43 | NetShadow | I think making it high-quality and open source just about guarantees it'll get used all over the place |
| 17:06.11 | ahaberlacho | And it appealed to hackers who wanted root on their systems and not people who wanted to pay money for platforms or apps. |
| 17:06.11 | languish | NetShadow, do you consider Ubuntu to be high quality? |
| 17:06.27 | ahaberlacho | NetShadow : Like Linux! Why, as the dominant desktop software platform, Linux demonstrates that nicely! |
| 17:06.48 | NetShadow | Yeah, I'd say so. No platform's perfect but it's very usable and stable for most. |
| 17:06.50 | languish | Well, what we ARE talking about here, IS linux. |
| 17:06.53 | languish | :| |
| 17:06.55 | languish | with a vm |
| 17:07.25 | ahaberlacho | While I admit that on the server side, Linux and its associated open-source services have been awesome, there's a bigger difference to the enlightened consumer between "free as in beer" and "paying an assload of money to Microsoft, Sun, and Oracle every year." |
| 17:07.38 | languish | And if you look at another linux, that IS on handsets.. |
| 17:07.44 | languish | and show me just how open THAT is.. |
| 17:07.49 | ahaberlacho | On the desktop side, however, people want a computer they can buy at Circuit City that is well-supported and keeps working. |
| 17:07.59 | ahaberlacho | They don't want to spend every Friday night updating their audio drivers. |
| 17:08.02 | tauno | DannyB, err.. what do you mean by "nobody uses it" ? I don't get you :/ I'm not talking about USA or UK here where phones are subsidized.. I'm talking about "free" markets here where people use the phone that is the best.. there are millions of phone users there.. why do you think that if you'd put an Android based phone there, then "nobody would use it"? That's the same as admitting that Android is worse then Symbian, WM etc.. |
| 17:08.35 | NetShadow | OpenMoko's a good example, there *will* be good ports of Android for open platforms, given enough time. It's just a shame the G1 wasn't an open platform. |
| 17:08.53 | ahaberlacho | Ok, "nobody" can be interpreted as "not enough", then. I know the ballpark figure of how much money Google has spent bringing Android up to the G1. It's not cheap. :) |
| 17:09.07 | ahaberlacho | NetShadow : The platform is open, but the G1 device is not. |
| 17:09.25 | ahaberlacho | And the G1 is not going to remain the only device forever, especially because the platform is open. |
| 17:09.30 | NetShadow | err, right, open handset hardware stacks, I should have said |
| 17:10.22 | languish | tauno, do you get that google doesn't make the hardware? and they don't run the cell networks? they just make the OS? |
| 17:10.34 | languish | tauno, your local cell providers can bring android to your region at any time |
| 17:10.48 | ahaberlacho | Have 'em give Andy Rubin a call! |
| 17:10.53 | tauno | languish, I made an impression that I don't get it? sry.. I totally know this.. |
| 17:11.09 | languish | tauno, so your point is? |
| 17:11.43 | languish | You're pointing fingers at google for not bringing HTC's hardware and t-mobiles branded device, to your region? |
| 17:11.53 | tauno | languish, that Android as a OS should not implement changes that some random mobile network operator in the USA/UK wants :P |
| 17:11.58 | *** join/#android sherlok (n=kjsdjk@ool-457349c6.dyn.optonline.net) |
| 17:12.01 | tauno | languish, no |
| 17:12.17 | NetShadow | And of course hackers will reverse engineer their existing phones and gain complete control over everything, given time. It's just ironic at this point that an HTC Windows Mobile device + Haret gives you more control over the Android image you run, at this point, than does the G1 |
| 17:12.29 | languish | tauno, I agree, they shouldn't have. But their overriding goals urged them to anyway. |
| 17:12.39 | languish | Large corps do not have a morality |
| 17:13.06 | languish | they only have a responsibility to shareholders, profit, the bottom line, and not getting busted for illegal activity |
| 17:13.16 | languish | and only then, then it doesn't hurt the bottom line |
| 17:13.57 | ahaberlacho | languish : Ah, but corporattions, particularly Google, do have the ability to think long-term and strategically when they must. |
| 17:13.57 | languish | I disagree with them supporting the release of a handset to the public at retail, that is unfinished. |
| 17:14.15 | *** join/#android pjv (n=pjv@91.178.36.178) |
| 17:14.16 | languish | Limited bluetooth profiles.. and insufficient testing |
| 17:14.23 | languish | and that crappy ass camera |
| 17:14.39 | ahaberlacho | I blame Qualcomm for the camera, but in theory I'm the guy responsible for the testing. |
| 17:14.39 | languish | I realize the public is beta testing it |
| 17:14.40 | tauno | languish, whoa.. nice.. you got my point :) the whole whining part is about Google being a "we want money" company vs a "we do something to make the world better and we don't care about the money that it will bring" |
| 17:14.44 | ahaberlacho | wonders if he's talking too much. |
| 17:15.01 | ahaberlacho | If you think what you have now is Beta, you should've seen it a few months ago. :) |
| 17:15.03 | languish | tauno yep everyone gets your point, just not why you keep harping on it, when everyone gets it |
| 17:15.08 | languish | :| |
| 17:15.15 | languish | but |
| 17:15.21 | tauno | yea.. I'll shut up |
| 17:15.25 | incandenza | I don't get the "compare the size of google to t-mobile" comment. isn't google bigger? google $105B market cap, deutsche telekom $65B |
| 17:15.26 | tauno | it doesn't change anything anyway |
| 17:15.33 | languish | I do think they are making the world a better place, they're just taking the sleazy road to it |
| 17:16.05 | languish | I disagree with the ends justify the means |
| 17:16.13 | *** join/#android bojangles (n=bojangle@c-98-226-6-195.hsd1.il.comcast.net) |
| 17:16.13 | languish | which is how google's proceeding |
| 17:16.22 | NetShadow | Only one question for Google really.... why wasn't Android entirely developed in the open as an Open Source project? It seems like we'd be a lot farther along by now.. |
| 17:16.41 | ahaberlacho | I'm not convinced that you understand the "ends" in this particular situation. |
| 17:16.46 | ttuttle | NetShadow: It requires extra administrative work to accept patches, especially for things like security review. |
| 17:16.48 | languish | NetShadow, you wouldn't. Google obviously needed telecom and telecom hardware partners |
| 17:17.08 | cbeust_ | NetShadow: similar efforts in the past show that you're wrong |
| 17:17.16 | ahaberlacho | NetShadow : Because too many chefs spoil the broth. |
| 17:17.21 | ttuttle | NetShadow: And they needed to ship it on the G1 by a certain date. That wouldn't have happened if everyone was feeding them patches to fix their favorite bugs and they were accepting them all. |
| 17:17.21 | NetShadow | languish: so your point is that these partners won't join an OSS project? |
| 17:17.34 | languish | NetShadow, has HTC open sourced their bootloader? |
| 17:17.49 | ttuttle | languish: Has your computer manufacturer open-sourced their BIOS? |
| 17:18.05 | languish | NetShadow, look at the issues with the 3-D drivers for the htc kaiser |
| 17:18.14 | ahaberlacho | Also, we looked at things like LiMo and OpenMoko and said "Hey, do we need another open source project that takes forever to get nowhere?" |
| 17:18.33 | NetShadow | languish: good point, but pressure from Google might have changed things, if openness was really the goal |
| 17:18.34 | languish | ttuttle, my computer doesn't need to run on a cellular network :) |
| 17:18.55 | ttuttle | languish: Yeah, but my point is the HTC bootloader is about as relevant to running an open-source OS as your computer's BIOS is. |
| 17:18.58 | ahaberlacho | languish : And oddly enough, with the addition of a GPRS radio, it can! |
| 17:19.00 | languish | a cellular network controlled by rententive management |
| 17:19.17 | ttuttle | s/rententive/retentive/; |
| 17:19.21 | ttuttle | Also you're missing a word :- |
| 17:19.23 | ttuttle | * :-) |
| 17:19.27 | cbeust_ | NetShadow: A product that is so intensively focused on end users need to be directed by a simple entity with uncompromising focus on user interface and QA. Which open source projects suck at. |
| 17:19.30 | languish | yes ok, the bootloader was a bad example :0 |
| 17:19.50 | languish | ttuttle, yes, I certainly was :D |
| 17:20.10 | NetShadow | cbeust_: Are there no good Linux distros? |
| 17:20.14 | ttuttle | loves how Google & co. make a phone that's (let's say) 90% open source, as opposed to the usual 0%, and everyone complains about the remaining 10%. |
| 17:20.31 | cbeust_ | NetShadow: They all have pros and cons, but we're not talking distros here, we're talking user interface and usability |
| 17:21.08 | languish | ttuttle, the reason for that is.. Google happily let slip how "open" Android would be, allowing public misconceptions to propagate |
| 17:21.09 | orci | actually I installed the eclipse plugin only, does this mean I do not have an emulator? |
| 17:21.18 | ahaberlacho | Also, I installed my first linux distro 12 years ago. It took a lot of time and effort for Linux to get where it is. :) |
| 17:21.37 | languish | ttuttle, asumptions were made publically that the device android was on would be open, and Google took their time in denying it |
| 17:21.38 | ttuttle | languish: The only closed bits, AFAIK, are the G1-specific bits that hardware manufacturers won't allow them to share, and their own apps running on the platform. |
| 17:21.39 | NetShadow | ttuttle: I hope you don't think I'm complaining about what we were given. It's great. Just pointing out that we're not at the point where even google thinks all this can be done in the open. |
| 17:21.44 | MikHel | Anybody has a suggestion for a fast way to parse long strings into tokens? Using the string tokenizer and string split is awfully slow!!! |
| 17:21.53 | ahaberlacho | languish : Once again, Android is open. Almost totally. You can go get the source today. The G-1, not entirely so. Future phones maybe more (and maybe less!) |
| 17:22.08 | ttuttle | NetShadow: Of course it can't be done all in the open. They want to guide where it goes. |
| 17:22.11 | languish | ttuttle, android is the OS. No root on the OS (or at least not intentionally) that's closed. |
| 17:22.21 | MikHel | ahaberlacho: Sprint apparently want to make theirs LESS open! |
| 17:22.28 | languish | but then, open and closed are a matter of definition and perception |
| 17:22.28 | ttuttle | languish: No, that's tivoized. |
| 17:22.31 | cbeust_ | languish: without that, the G1 and Android would not exist. |
| 17:22.38 | *** join/#android borism (n=boris@195-50-200-2-dsl.krw.estpak.ee) |
| 17:22.41 | ahaberlacho | MikHel : And thanks to the power of the free market and Apache licensing, they can! |
| 17:22.53 | languish | cbeust_, I know :) I'm not arguing that at all. Necessary evil and all. |
| 17:22.56 | languish | However |
| 17:22.58 | ttuttle | languish: Open-source doesn't mean "lets the user do whatever they want", it means "Lets the user see, copy, and modify the source code." |
| 17:23.07 | languish | I disagree with the concept of necessary evil. |
| 17:23.28 | ttuttle | languish: So, if you make a totally open phone, most users will get pwned by viruses and spyware. |
| 17:23.37 | languish | ttuttle, I know :) and I make some money supporting OSS |
| 17:23.41 | ahaberlacho | Ok, my wife wants me to clean the porch, so I have to handle a priority interrupt. Laters, ya'll. I'll catch up on this discussion when it loops around again. |
| 17:23.49 | ttuttle | languish: Can you point to an OS where the user has full control that doesn't get hijacked? Even Linux gets SSH worms. |
| 17:23.53 | ttuttle | ahaberlacho: see ya |
| 17:24.02 | languish | l8r ahaberlacho |
| 17:24.39 | ttuttle | languish: It's just not acceptable to companies like T-Mobile to have a phone where, say, rogue apps can flood 911 call centers with bogus calls, or DDoS random websites. |
| 17:24.40 | NetShadow | ttuttle: totally disagree re: viruses and spyware. counter-example, Linux distro's |
| 17:24.56 | languish | ttuttle, I agree the average user needs to be protected from themselves. However, the more technically apt users should not be completely left out of the equation. |
| 17:25.05 | ttuttle | NetShadow: WRONG. |
| 17:25.12 | ahaberlacho | cybereagle: makin' money -- now is the time to hook up with a hardware vendor (possibly HTC) to purchase devices under your own terms (locked, unlocked, whatever), bundle them with whatever tools/services people will want/need for development, and then sell them at a profit |
| 17:25.29 | ttuttle | NetShadow: There are ssh worms that will bruteforce passwords. If you have a crummy password, they will break in to your account and start sshing to other computers, doing the same thing. |
| 17:25.32 | ahaberlacho | Err, that wasn't to cybereagle that was to languish. |
| 17:25.49 | ttuttle | languish: Sure, but then suppose there is a sequence of steps to grant an app root privileges. |
| 17:25.55 | ahaberlacho | But anyway, there's lots of money to be made, and I'm pretty sure most of it doesn't entail spending Sunday morning bitching about lack of root on #android. :) |
| 17:26.00 | ahaberlacho | really runs away. |
| 17:26.02 | languish | ahaberlacho, I'm working on that with whitespace development :) |
| 17:26.10 | NetShadow | ttuttle: sure, that's a problem with any computer (and all phones are computers). but I don't think most users are going to start up sshd's on their phones, even if it's easy to do. |
| 17:26.20 | ttuttle | languish: The only people who will be smart enough NOT to do them just 'cause the app says to are the users who already know what "root" means. |
| 17:26.33 | ttuttle | languish: The rest of the users will just blindly follow directions that an app provides. |
| 17:26.46 | languish | ttuttle, that's happened anyway :| |
| 17:27.00 | languish | And it would have over time |
| 17:27.01 | ttuttle | languish: I mean, you've seen those studies about browser confirmation dialogs, right? Users will click "Yes" on *anything* to get their free porn/games/iPods/whatever. |
| 17:27.08 | languish | yep |
| 17:27.11 | languish | Well aware of it. |
| 17:27.16 | ttuttle | languish: Well, that was a bug, and the n00bs will get their phones patched automatically. |
| 17:27.34 | ttuttle | languish: So it's not surprising that there's no (intentional) way to get root on the G1. |
| 17:28.20 | languish | ttuttle, the way I believe it should have been handled, would have been for a unique code per phone to be required to enable root access functionality through settings |
| 17:28.20 | ttuttle | languish: I mean, believe me, I'd like it if production builds had an allow-root switch somewhere, but it'll get abused. |
| 17:28.44 | ttuttle | languish: How does that limit who can get it? Do you give people a quiz before you give them the code? |
| 17:28.50 | languish | So devs and advanced users could go, sign up, and get their unique code back. |
| 17:29.02 | languish | average users would mostly be too lazy to go that far |
| 17:29.07 | ttuttle | languish: I mean, all it takes is some clever app to say "Gee, we're overriding some really cool stuff, so you need to enable root on your phone. Go here and do this." |
| 17:29.10 | ttuttle | languish: Meh, I guess. |
| 17:29.18 | ttuttle | languish: I just never underestimate the stupidity of average phone users. |
| 17:29.28 | languish | or the public in general |
| 17:29.29 | languish | *sigh* |
| 17:29.44 | languish | look at all the people downloading the hacked RC30 blindly |
| 17:29.45 | ttuttle | languish: yeah. |
| 17:30.13 | languish | just to "keep" root |
| 17:30.38 | *** join/#android unix_infidel (n=blue@unaffiliated/unixinfidel/x-8383745) |
| 17:30.43 | languish | I told my wife to let her phone update normally |
| 17:30.54 | languish | I can mess with my own all I want |
| 17:30.54 | ttuttle | languish: Good. |
| 17:31.08 | languish | but she needs a device that'll "just work" |
| 17:31.24 | languish | which till now, the G1 hasn't exactly been *sigh again* |
| 17:31.39 | languish | :P |
| 17:32.34 | languish | Hopefully google finds their way to their own national wireless network that's connected at a minimum expense to the public phone exchange |
| 17:32.50 | *** join/#android bojangles (n=bojangle@c-98-226-6-195.hsd1.il.comcast.net) |
| 17:33.20 | languish | Right now all I see is google moving in to whitespace networking |
| 17:34.12 | languish | though I'm interested to see if it'll be as a national thing with cellular style antennas (or something similar) or some form of public grid cloud |
| 17:34.38 | languish | which has been tried before and failed |
| 17:35.17 | languish | though we wouldn't have had to deal with cell carriers anymore if it had worked |
| 17:35.21 | languish | :/ |
| 17:35.32 | *** join/#android mikez5 (n=lockwood@pool-72-93-80-103.bstnma.fios.verizon.net) |
| 17:35.45 | languish | ok I rant on alone now. gonna go grab lunch |
| 17:36.01 | mikez5 | just logged in - missed your rant |
| 17:36.12 | languish | it's a rant.. be glad :) |
| 17:36.22 | ttuttle | mikez5: morning! |
| 17:36.33 | mikez5 | ttuttle: what timezone you in today? |
| 17:36.35 | ttuttle | mikez5: Wait, it's noon on a Sunday. Don't you have anywhere else to be? :-P |
| 17:36.43 | ttuttle | mikez5: Same one, but it's still logical morning. I woke up about an hour ago. |
| 17:36.56 | mikez5 | yeah, I need to put away the groceries. |
| 17:36.59 | languish | ttuttle, my wife's been sleeping with her head on my leg, so no. |
| 17:37.08 | languish | oh him. |
| 17:37.09 | languish | right |
| 17:37.10 | languish | lala |
| 17:37.13 | ttuttle | languish: Awwwww. |
| 17:37.13 | languish | food. o/ |
| 17:37.53 | mikez5 | read about debian on G1 on my G1 while waiting in line at the grocery checkout. |
| 17:41.52 | ttuttle | mikez5: oh, Debian? |
| 17:42.56 | mikez5 | http://androidcommunity.com/jay-freeman-successfully-ports-debian-for-android-20081109/ |
| 17:43.18 | mikez5 | waits for debian. It would be fun to bootstrap on a phone. |
| 17:43.27 | mikez5 | Oops, I meant gentoo. |
| 17:44.25 | Damm | mikez5, crappy linking? |
| 17:44.26 | Damm | lol |
| 17:52.59 | michaelnovakjr__ | believe it when i see screenshots |
| 17:54.09 | Miek | i think you're confusing fun with something else D: |
| 17:59.25 | eggy | hm - does the G1 come with a microSD card? |
| 17:59.45 | incandenza | eggy: yes, a 1 gig |
| 18:00.23 | eggy | ah :-) |
| 18:00.49 | languish | unless you're in the .uk, then a 2Gb card |
| 18:01.12 | *** join/#android nebi (n=nebi@c-498fe253.02-145-7570701.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se) |
| 18:05.28 | *** join/#android andyross (n=andy@static-71-245-107-194.ptldor.fios.verizon.net) |
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| 18:10.06 | *** join/#android ebel (n=rory@78.16.135.224) |
| 18:11.38 | DarkriftX | is jesusfreke here (with a different nick)?? |
| 18:13.42 | *** join/#android matt_c (n=mcroydon@137.147.45.66.cm.sunflower.com) |
| 18:14.04 | *** join/#android unix_infidel (n=blue@unaffiliated/unixinfidel/x-8383745) |
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| 18:43.34 | DarkriftX | added JesusFreke's modded RC30 to the wiki with instructions: http://android-dls.com/wiki/index.php?title=Keeping_Root |
| 18:46.58 | *** join/#android bszabo (n=bszabo@ip72-208-41-138.ph.ph.cox.net) |
| 18:47.57 | *** join/#android sherlok (n=kjsdjk@ool-457349c6.dyn.optonline.net) |
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| 18:57.42 | Disconnect | for the record.. http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=2879714&postcount=15 is exactly why tmob isn't going to do tons of ota updates.. (and why its unlikely that patches for non-critical problems will come on any sort of regular basis.) yes, it hasn't been shown yet to be the case, but .. |
| 18:59.14 | romainguy__ | except that it's on a phone the guy messed up with |
| 19:01.45 | sherlok | the guy reset the root password, I guess the update needs to run a script as root or something...and can't |
| 19:02.01 | DarkriftX | Disconnect and romainguy_ some ppl reported problems with the rc30 patch version without any prior tweaking |
| 19:02.07 | ttuttle | That's bogus. |
| 19:02.10 | DarkriftX | ouch |
| 19:02.15 | ttuttle | recovery doesn't need to know the root password to the main system. |
| 19:02.22 | languish | resists the urge to reply to sherlok woth 'no shit.." |
| 19:02.23 | DarkriftX | they probably think that is what he is experiencing |
| 19:02.26 | languish | :D |
| 19:02.47 | DarkriftX | its funny how they say "yeah, we heard about that happening" basically |
| 19:02.59 | *** join/#android spearce (n=spearce@nat/google/x-63a6de7a08fcb3d3) |
| 19:04.07 | Disconnect | thats what i was saying earlier. you are basically gonna brick a few devices every time. |
| 19:04.48 | Disconnect | its not responsible for them to do frequent updates |
| 19:05.13 | DarkriftX | yeah |
| 19:05.16 | ttuttle | Disconnect: Either that, or they need to do them in such a way that devices aren't bricked ;-) |
| 19:05.21 | DarkriftX | lol ttuttle |
| 19:05.24 | DarkriftX | i agree! |
| 19:05.40 | DarkriftX | i will say its pretty hard to brick these things |
| 19:05.46 | DarkriftX | with the recovery partition and all |
| 19:06.22 | romainguy__ | I agree that bricking is a possibility |
| 19:06.30 | romainguy__ | but it's very hard in my experience |
| 19:06.45 | romainguy__ | in 18 months of flashing devices several times a day, I never bricked one |
| 19:06.50 | languish | I was at a local tmo store where this guy was telling the girl at the counter his phone was "broked" so she said "do you mean bricked?" so he told her no, he didn't hit it with a brick, he wasn't that mad yet. |
| 19:06.56 | romainguy__ | and I've done some serious shit to the devices (like pulling the battery during a flash :) |
| 19:07.24 | Disconnect | romainguy_: yah but thats different from flashing 300,000 remote devices in 300,000 different states :) |
| 19:07.53 | romainguy__ | actually we have way less states on these remote devices than on our internal ones :) |
| 19:08.00 | Disconnect | the evidence is out there in the fact that a few phones - modified and unmodified - have been bricked :) |
| 19:09.17 | DarkriftX | romainguy_, id have to say for all the hacking that is happening, these devices are surprisingly resilient |
| 19:09.20 | Disconnect | but anyway i'm gonna light up jesusfreke's rc30. even with the better-calibrated battery i got fscked over yesterday. 45 minutes of charging (well, 3g+gps charging but still) and then turned off gps, it died within 30 mins :( |
| 19:10.01 | anno^da_ | http://cgi.ebay.de/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=300270611178&ssPageName=ADME:B:EOIBUAA:DE:1123 <- And again. I think that I will import more than one G1 from the US. :) Buying for 500$ (duty included) and selling for more than 1000$ sounds nice. |
| 19:12.23 | *** join/#android orci_ (n=orci@24-177-53-93.dhcp.oxfr.ma.charter.com) |
| 19:13.20 | orci_ | hi, is this cool locking mechanism safe enough? Do i have to use any encrypted sdcard or something like that in order to keep whatever is on my telephone private? |
| 19:13.48 | geist | safe enough from what? |
| 19:14.14 | orci_ | thieves who may stole the hardware from me |
| 19:14.16 | DarkriftX | the government |
| 19:14.22 | Disconnect | its by no means a secure device in that sense. hw access (to take out the sd card, or open it and read the flash) will get your data. |
| 19:14.24 | DarkriftX | they want what you have! |
| 19:14.26 | geist | wrap it in tin foil |
| 19:14.28 | orci_ | government is already in there I know that |
| 19:14.44 | geist | but they'll just pull the info out of your head |
| 19:14.48 | d0nets | hey my gf and i are picking out aniversary gifts |
| 19:14.52 | d0nets | is this what i need? |
| 19:14.53 | d0nets | http://cgi.ebay.com/Sandisk-16GB-Micro-SD-MicroSD-Memory-Card-16-GB-NEW-16G_W0QQitemZ190265069978QQcmdZViewItemQQptZDigital_Camera_Memory_Cards?hash=item190265069978&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=66%3A2|65%3A15|39%3A1|240%3A1318 |
| 19:15.09 | DarkriftX | and i thought i was a geek |
| 19:15.16 | geist | was thinking the same |
| 19:15.21 | orci_ | Disconnect, can I make it safer, so that the web site passwords etc may not be reached even if the hardware is stolen? |
| 19:15.28 | DarkriftX | asking for a micro sd card for your anniversary is probably not a smooth move |
| 19:15.40 | d0nets | why |
| 19:15.55 | d0nets | no no its not for my gf |
| 19:15.57 | d0nets | its for me |
| 19:15.59 | d0nets | she wants the wii fit |
| 19:16.08 | DarkriftX | it screams "all i want is geek toys" |
| 19:16.17 | DarkriftX | although it might be true |
| 19:16.24 | DarkriftX | girls think about that crap |
| 19:16.27 | d0nets | well it would be this or gauges for my car |
| 19:16.40 | d0nets | or maybe some ram for my laptop |
| 19:17.17 | *** join/#android bojangles (n=bojangle@c-98-226-6-195.hsd1.il.comcast.net) |
| 19:17.34 | d0nets | but is that the card i need for my g1? |
| 19:17.57 | Disconnect | looks like it |
| 19:17.58 | d0nets | it says transflash? |
| 19:18.04 | DarkriftX | yes, microsd |
| 19:18.46 | d0nets | ok |
| 19:18.51 | d0nets | thanks |
| 19:18.59 | *** join/#android MystSparks_ (n=paul@phassinger.dsl.visi.com) |
| 19:19.07 | d0nets | any progress on running apps from it? |
| 19:19.29 | orci_ | Disconnect, does the locking mechanism safe at least to protect the non micro sd part of the hard disk space? |
| 19:19.53 | orci_ | Disconnect, i think browser is keeping stuff outside of cdcard anyways |
| 19:19.54 | Disconnect | not if you have physical access to it |
| 19:20.11 | Disconnect | no phone does. not even most devices are secure (including encrypted hdds and such) if you have physical access. |
| 19:20.18 | orci_ | Disconnect, so the locking mechanism does not encrypt |
| 19:20.25 | orci_ | oh |
| 19:20.38 | ttuttle | What locking mechanism? |
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| 19:20.52 | orci_ | Disconnect, I know that anything can be broken into however i thought encrypted ddisks were safe enough |
| 19:20.53 | Disconnect | ttuttle: i think he means the device lock |
| 19:21.00 | ttuttle | Oh. |
| 19:21.08 | ttuttle | That doesn't keep any data safe. |
| 19:21.10 | orci_ | ttuttle, that cute locking unlocking mechanism |
| 19:21.22 | ttuttle | Oh, that's just a screen lock. No encryption or anything. It'd be dumb. |
| 19:21.41 | orci_ | ttuttle, it'd be dump to have encryption? why? |
| 19:21.42 | Disconnect | fyi i hate the fact that the sim lock fires when you go in and out of airplane mode and it doesn't have a "on sim change" option (so it fires every time or never. not as useful.) |
| 19:21.59 | *** join/#android tauno (n=tauntz@23.228.190.90.dyn.estpak.ee) |
| 19:22.40 | MystSparks_ | I have a question... since we have root access with RC29 and lower... I believe the updates will only work with signed updates... but can hey change the bootloader to not allow RC29 and previous releases with the root shell? Anotherwords, in future updates, can they disallow allowing us to do a manual update to RC29? |
| 19:22.45 | ttuttle | orci_: It's not a long enough password. |
| 19:23.19 | ttuttle | orci_: The encryption key is going to have to be encrypted itself by the unlock code, and the unlock code is a maximum of 9! = 362800 codes. |
| 19:23.24 | ttuttle | orci_: That's trivial to bruteforce. |
| 19:23.40 | ttuttle | orci_: They'd need to give it a real password lock, with long passwords, to make encryption worthwhile. |
| 19:23.52 | orci_ | ttuttle, I think we could give the option of chosing longer passwords? |
| 19:24.34 | ttuttle | orci_: Me too. |
| 19:24.44 | ttuttle | orci_: But with just the doodle-lock, there's no point in encryption. |
| 19:24.46 | spikebike | it's not 9! btw |
| 19:24.52 | Disconnect | ttuttle: its not 9! either |
| 19:24.52 | Disconnect | heh |
| 19:24.58 | ttuttle | spikebike: Oh, okay, it's a little bigger. |
| 19:25.02 | Disconnect | no its smaller |
| 19:25.08 | spikebike | no, smaller |
| 19:25.09 | ttuttle | Why? |
| 19:25.15 | spikebike | try to select 1,3 without 2 |
| 19:25.16 | ttuttle | You can wiggle your way between them. |
| 19:25.18 | DarkriftX | MystSparks_, when you apply the custom bootloader (actually its hte recovery) you have to edit your updates before applying them. when you edit it, you replace their recovery with yours again ensuring you always have a hacked one |
| 19:25.25 | Disconnect | look at it as a numeric keypad. you can't go 139 |
| 19:25.26 | spikebike | try it |
| 19:25.34 | ttuttle | Oh, you're right. |
| 19:25.37 | ttuttle | So it's even worse. |
| 19:25.44 | Disconnect | yep |
| 19:26.02 | cmonex | [17:59:24] <ahaberlacho> Anyway, to come back to another discussion: has anyone built a "kill app" that would make me or anyone want root access on their phone? Or is it still just theoreetical? |
| 19:26.09 | orci_ | there is an app called splashID passwrod, i do not know if worths trying |
| 19:26.11 | cmonex | ask Chainfire, he wants to port WMWifiRouter |
| 19:26.18 | DarkriftX | orci_, its a phone, they are not safe |
| 19:26.19 | cmonex | dont expect full blown apps in 2 days :) |
| 19:26.20 | spikebike | so no 1,3, no 3,6, no 7,9 |
| 19:26.22 | Disconnect | plus you can be fairly certain most users select a complete set, so you know its 9 long |
| 19:26.33 | spikebike | no 1 7, 2 8 or 3 9 |
| 19:26.55 | Disconnect | spikebike: sorta. 213 works but 132 doesn't. |
| 19:27.37 | spikebike | there's some hard one |
| 19:27.39 | spikebike | s |
| 19:27.49 | spikebike | 7 -> 2 -> 9 |
| 19:27.55 | orci_ | DarkriftX, even if there was some encryption, that would save from most stupid thieves |
| 19:28.21 | spikebike | disk encryption only helps if the machine is off |
| 19:28.21 | *** join/#android unix_infidel (n=blue@unaffiliated/unixinfidel/x-8383745) |
| 19:28.26 | spikebike | (on a desktop/laptop) |
| 19:28.32 | orci_ | darkhorse, pareto principle :) |
| 19:28.42 | darkhorse | ? |
| 19:28.56 | DarkriftX | orci_, you want security? get a gun and a good phone case |
| 19:29.00 | *** join/#android pjv (n=pjv@91.178.36.178) |
| 19:29.05 | DarkriftX | and dont let your wife use your phone |
| 19:29.12 | MystSparks_ | So basically, Darkriftx, you're saying we have to apply our own update to ensure their recovery won't disallow root in the future.. makes sense. |
| 19:29.18 | DarkriftX | yes |
| 19:29.27 | DarkriftX | each update from now on will have to be downloaded and edited |
| 19:29.34 | orci_ | that was a sexist joke |
| 19:30.05 | DarkriftX | replace the recovery.img inside the file with a new one, and edit the script to install on yoru device (and of course edit whatever tmo is doing to take away your root access) then flash that |
| 19:30.11 | DarkriftX | no, it wasnt a joke |
| 19:30.20 | DarkriftX | my wife used my phone and took it to target and left it in the cart |
| 19:30.26 | spikebike | doh! |
| 19:30.26 | DarkriftX | i am no longer the owner of that phone |
| 19:30.33 | Disconnect | lol |
| 19:30.33 | spikebike | g1? |
| 19:30.40 | DarkriftX | no, wizard |
| 19:30.47 | DarkriftX | and tmo bent me over about that one |
| 19:30.47 | spikebike | ah, no loss then ;-) |
| 19:30.59 | spikebike | does tmo insurance cover that kind of thing? |
| 19:31.09 | MystSparks_ | those that let their upate go to R30, won't have any way to go back to an old version once they install it then... (without another exploit anyway)? |
| 19:31.14 | DarkriftX | told me i had 3 days to buy a new phone that was compatible with that plan (another wizard basically) or they were canceling my service and charging me $250 |
| 19:31.21 | spikebike | myst correct |
| 19:31.26 | MystSparks_ | thanks |
| 19:31.31 | DarkriftX | spikebike, i bought 3rd party so no ins |
| 19:31.43 | spikebike | doh |
| 19:31.59 | DarkriftX | they told me i could not "disrupt" my service without the $250 fee (i wanted 2 weeks to get a new phone from ebay) |
| 19:32.01 | spikebike | so as soon as I find a phone I'd rather have than a g1 I should cancel insurance |
| 19:32.27 | DarkriftX | so i could either leave it on, and let the theives use it, shut it off and pay $250 or buy another wizard from them for $450 |
| 19:32.32 | DarkriftX | i told em to fuck off |
| 19:34.27 | spikebike | Hrm, maybe a lojack program should lock th ephone and offer $30 for return |
| 19:34.54 | spikebike | and of course be installed in the recovery partition as well |
| 19:35.17 | ttuttle | spikebike: You can't install programs in the recovery partition. |
| 19:35.23 | Disconnect | spikebike: installing to recovery partition wouldn't be "secure" enough for google. |
| 19:35.35 | Disconnect | like backing up your data. |
| 19:35.50 | spikebike | er |
| 19:36.02 | spikebike | the recovery partition can reinstall the main partition, right? |
| 19:36.26 | spikebike | or is it just enough to load from sdcard? |
| 19:37.44 | DarkriftX | orci_, google for pinpoint, if the author ever released it it lets you track your phone if it gets stolen |
| 19:37.55 | DarkriftX | and of course get a gun to confront them with |
| 19:37.56 | spikebike | yeah it's out there |
| 19:38.05 | Disconnect | its released. but it doesn't work great. |
| 19:38.05 | spikebike | say locate and a pin |
| 19:38.12 | DarkriftX | oh |
| 19:38.16 | DarkriftX | its a great idea |
| 19:38.25 | DarkriftX | the author said he might not release it though |
| 19:38.29 | DarkriftX | so i wasnt sure |
| 19:38.42 | Disconnect | good for "i wonder if i left my phone at home" not so good for "i stole this phone adn left it turned on and left it unlocked and left it gps enabled and its outside somewhere, very still so it can get a fix"... |
| 19:38.55 | Disconnect | oh and on the original sim, etc |
| 19:39.04 | Disconnect | and i didn't do a factory wipe |
| 19:39.05 | spikebike | it can turn on gps I think |
| 19:39.11 | orci_ | I still think there must be encryption on the sdcard as well as the main memory/hdd |
| 19:39.20 | DarkriftX | most ppl who steal a phone wont htink to do all that at first |
| 19:39.20 | Disconnect | it can't toggle it on blindly, thats not 'secure' :) |
| 19:39.31 | DarkriftX | orci_, never going to happen |
| 19:39.41 | *** join/#android jriley60 (n=joshua@c-24-99-53-104.hsd1.ga.comcast.net) |
| 19:39.45 | Disconnect | DarkriftX: most people who steal phones immediately pull the sim. phone is expensive, sim is worthless. |
| 19:39.50 | orci_ | DarkriftX, is it too expensive in cpu time or something? |
| 19:40.11 | DarkriftX | im sure there is that also |
| 19:40.31 | orci_ | DarkriftX, because you just think that it would be useless |
| 19:40.44 | DarkriftX | no, i have no say over android |
| 19:40.52 | DarkriftX | but ive seen hundreds of pda phones over the years |
| 19:40.57 | DarkriftX | none have a real encryption method |
| 19:41.05 | orci_ | no I was questionning the rationale behind that it ould never happen |
| 19:41.09 | *** join/#android scootley (n=chris@68.55.164.179) |
| 19:41.14 | DarkriftX | that was my rationale |
| 19:41.18 | spikebike | so you really want something that detects the sim/number change and then locks GPS on and reports it's position regularly |
| 19:41.26 | spikebike | maybe reports call logs as well |
| 19:41.26 | DarkriftX | if it were going to happen, im sure it would have |
| 19:42.04 | orci_ | spikebike, just like screenlock, it would lock the whole system each time after some idle time |
| 19:42.07 | Disconnect | spikebike: most smartphones i've had in the past could do a sim lock/phone lock on sim change. |
| 19:42.38 | orci_ | spikebike, or at least important data such as website passwords, phone book, etc. |
| 19:43.02 | orci_ | i would not like somebody looking at my pictures as well |
| 19:43.07 | Disconnect | maybe implement a bb-style wipe on pass failure |
| 19:44.28 | DarkriftX | and orci_ im almost sure that encrypted fs is not built into this so that would mean more then just a program installed. would mean a completely new os being built to enable it |
| 19:46.30 | orci_ | DarkriftX, i would say that this is required, lots of information about me is on that phone |
| 19:46.42 | orci_ | I think that is very important for everybody |
| 19:46.55 | DarkriftX | im not trying to argue, but look at it this way |
| 19:47.06 | DarkriftX | lots of ppl want security and it still has not been done |
| 19:47.08 | DarkriftX | that has to tell you soemthing |
| 19:47.45 | orci_ | DarkriftX, I think we are not at zero point. I perfectly understand that no lock is safe, however any lock is increasing your security |
| 19:48.16 | orci_ | I think we can develop an optimum security level |
| 19:48.23 | *** join/#android stelleg (n=george@d64-180-85-57.bchsia.telus.net) |
| 19:48.40 | *** join/#android Laser (n=digitchi@92.20.201.37) |
| 19:49.01 | Laser | Hello all |
| 19:49.07 | Laser | I have basic questions about the android OS |
| 19:49.14 | Laser | Is this a good place to ask such questions? |
| 19:50.04 | elad | probably the best place |
| 19:51.20 | Laser | Ok Basic question: |
| 19:51.31 | Laser | Is Android only an application or does it include radio source code? |
| 19:51.42 | Laser | for example: radio source code for GSM/UMTS etc? |
| 19:51.50 | geist | no, does not |
| 19:51.53 | Laser | I tried downloading the android source code kit and could find only java files |
| 19:52.16 | geist | radio implementations vary between vendors |
| 19:52.20 | Laser | So android is only java software that works for particular hardware platforms |
| 19:52.28 | stelleg | There are lots of c core libraries. They are in the external folder. |
| 19:52.32 | geist | android is the OS that runs on the application processor |
| 19:52.39 | *** join/#android After_Math (n=i8860054@adsl-99-14-132-236.dsl.lsan03.sbcglobal.net) |
| 19:52.41 | geist | there is usually a secondary processor that runs the radio stack |
| 19:52.43 | Laser | So Android = NO RADIO |
| 19:52.56 | After_Math | where might I find information on how to format videos to play on Android? |
| 19:52.58 | geist | that is correct |
| 19:53.03 | cmonex | Laser why do you care? |
| 19:53.05 | Laser | Thanks Geist |
| 19:53.08 | cmonex | ask or blame qualcomm |
| 19:53.13 | Laser | OK I am basically a radio guy |
| 19:53.13 | cmonex | (if you mean the G1, that is.) |
| 19:53.19 | stelleg | blame |
| 19:53.21 | Laser | Was seeing if I could contribute to the radio part of it |
| 19:53.23 | geist | radio stacks are incredibly complicated, each vendor has their own |
| 19:53.48 | Laser | Yup |
| 19:53.48 | geist | usually it's an rtos + the stack |
| 19:54.00 | Laser | I couldnt agree less with you geist |
| 19:54.03 | geist | msm solutions are stranger than that |
| 19:54.04 | Laser | Radio stacks are very complicated |
| 19:54.04 | cmonex | what kind of contributions ? |
| 19:54.07 | DarkriftX | Laser, the g1 radio img is available in the ota updates |
| 19:54.19 | geist | uh... okay |
| 19:54.20 | Laser | G1 radio? |
| 19:54.22 | DarkriftX | yes |
| 19:54.24 | Laser | Can you please define. |
| 19:54.31 | Laser | I am quite a novice to android |
| 19:54.32 | cmonex | qualcomm radio, to be precise |
| 19:54.34 | DarkriftX | OTA = over the air (google sends out updates) |
| 19:54.42 | Laser | OK I get what OTA is |
| 19:54.48 | geist | sure, the OTA has a binary update of the radio |
| 19:54.50 | DarkriftX | these updates have a radio.img in them |
| 19:54.57 | geist | does not mean that android did it |
| 19:55.04 | Laser | Oh OK |
| 19:55.14 | DarkriftX | not sure if that will help you ot not |
| 19:55.20 | DarkriftX | s/ot/or/ |
| 19:55.21 | cmonex | Laser: it is pretty much like any WM HTC MSM72xx radio |
| 19:55.23 | Laser | so G1 radio is included as a part of android and in actuality G1 radio has been developed by Qualcomm |
| 19:55.26 | After_Math | where might I find information on how to format videos to play on Android? |
| 19:55.32 | geist | correct |
| 19:55.54 | orci_ | After_Math, check the website for the video player application that you use |
| 19:55.55 | geist | the chip in the G1 is a shared die radio + app processor |
| 19:56.05 | After_Math | orci_, k |
| 19:56.06 | scootley | After_Math: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=441063 |
| 19:56.20 | After_Math | scootley, thanks |
| 19:56.23 | cmonex | but of course qualcomm is not giving out the datasheets |
| 19:56.29 | geist | of course |
| 19:56.29 | cmonex | for this chipset |
| 19:56.31 | cmonex | :@ |
| 19:56.33 | orci_ | After_Math, as far as I know android does not have a default video format or something like that, it can play anything as long as there is a player |
| 19:56.44 | geist | cmonex: dont worry, it's a nightmare anyway |
| 19:56.46 | Laser | So users need to pay the royalty $ to qualcomm |
| 19:56.48 | Laser | ? |
| 19:56.49 | geist | the data sheets dont help that much |
| 19:56.57 | cmonex | geist -> oh, why? |
| 19:56.59 | After_Math | orci_, I have a player, just not sure how to encode it |
| 19:57.04 | geist | cmonex: because it's a nightmare |
| 19:57.12 | cmonex | okay but how is it a nightmare |
| 19:57.12 | Laser | If someone has to use the android software, they need to pay $ to Qualcomm? |
| 19:57.14 | orci_ | After_Math, which player is that |
| 19:57.18 | geist | i dont work for android, but i work with essentially the same chip elsewhere |
| 19:57.28 | geist | because it's a terrible terrible design |
| 19:57.31 | After_Math | orci_, one sec |
| 19:57.33 | stelleg | haha |
| 19:57.35 | geist | full of bugs, badly documented |
| 19:57.40 | stelleg | bummer |
| 19:57.43 | stelleg | whats the app core? |
| 19:57.43 | cmonex | bugs? I bet |
| 19:57.56 | geist | and the app processor is a slave to the radio, so you dont have a lot of control over low level details |
| 19:58.03 | geist | you end up having to send the radio a ton of rpcs |
| 19:58.09 | Laser | So Android = G1 radio (from Qualcomm) + application stack |
| 19:58.11 | geist | and you're at the mercy of whatever radio build is on there |
| 19:58.11 | cmonex | yes I know it is the slave |
| 19:58.12 | After_Math | orci_, Video Player |
| 19:58.14 | Laser | would that definition be correct |
| 19:58.16 | stelleg | wow |
| 19:58.21 | stelleg | weird |
| 19:58.24 | cmonex | I don't like that design |
| 19:58.29 | stelleg | yeah |
| 19:58.29 | geist | it's actually a testamont to how great the android team is |
| 19:58.34 | geist | they actually got it working |
| 19:58.38 | stelleg | hah |
| 19:58.40 | Disconnect | Laser: thats the g1, android is a phone application stack |
| 19:58.49 | cmonex | heh WM is great too then. :) |
| 19:58.52 | Laser | Disconnect - thanks |
| 19:58.55 | cmonex | but.. |
| 19:59.09 | Disconnect | not necessarily that particular radio or arch. (and in fact, its been ported to the moko and n810 and such already. n810 doesn't have a phone radio at all..) |
| 19:59.18 | Laser | So when you see the HTC, what radio stack is HTC using inside to get the android phone working? |
| 19:59.26 | jham_ | For Video Player just use the converters for iPods, and use the iPod Touch settings |
| 19:59.29 | wasabi | this whole conversation is dumb sounding. |
| 19:59.30 | jham_ | You want H.264 video |
| 19:59.35 | cmonex | these MSM based devices, all seem full of bugs, unlike the previous HTC devices |
| 19:59.38 | geist | right, presumably android running on another fone with another radio stack would need some modifications to talk to the other radio stack, but otherwise would just be the apps stuff |
| 19:59.49 | cmonex | laser, what do you mean? |
| 19:59.58 | Laser | Geist - I got the answer |
| 20:00.00 | geist | Laser: the QC radio |
| 20:00.03 | stelleg | hey do you guys know if its possible to wake on an incoming packet from a certain port |
| 20:00.16 | geist | QC has a radio stack they put on their core |
| 20:00.24 | wasabi | stelleg: Not really. |
| 20:00.25 | Laser | Geist - thanks mate. |
| 20:00.27 | geist | it's whatever they want to call it. AMSS I believe is the main component |
| 20:00.32 | stelleg | thanks wasabi |
| 20:00.34 | wasabi | stelleg: Not without a router sending WOL events. |
| 20:00.37 | Disconnect | hmm. lots of reboots in rc30 |
| 20:00.39 | Laser | Cmonex - I am just trying to understand the whole concept of android |
| 20:00.45 | geist | IIRC, it's an L4 kernel + a bunch of services |
| 20:00.52 | Laser | Cmonex - Geist has clarified my doubts about android |
| 20:01.06 | Disconnect | Laser: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Y4thikv-OM |
| 20:01.13 | geist | awww, clarified doubts |
| 20:01.18 | incandenza | I still only have RC19. should I be concerned yet? |
| 20:01.25 | Disconnect | geist: clarified doubts are awesome with crab legs |
| 20:01.26 | stelleg | wasabi: thanks I'll look into that |
| 20:01.29 | Laser | Geist - Well I knew pretty much nothing about android :) |
| 20:01.35 | cmonex | what doubts Laser? |
| 20:01.37 | Disconnect | incandenza: if i were you i'd do manual updates to rc29 and then the patched rc30 |
| 20:01.37 | Laser | Disconnect - thanks |
| 20:01.49 | oyeoj | L4 kernel? |
| 20:01.50 | geist | do you have doubts or are you just using the wrong word? |
| 20:01.50 | Laser | cmonex - what a solution the android actually is? |
| 20:01.56 | cmonex | how do you mean, Laser? |
| 20:02.12 | stelleg | wasabi: any idea how sipphones wake from sleep on incoming calls? |
| 20:02.13 | jham_ | Laser: The RIL is the radio abstraction, that's the part that you'd need to replace to talk to another vendor's radio |
| 20:02.21 | geist | right |
| 20:02.26 | wasabi | stelleg: Never seen a sip phone sleep. |
| 20:02.35 | Laser | jham_ and all the other guys - I now understand the stuff about Android |
| 20:02.43 | Laser | I used to think that radio stacks are quite complicated and they are the costly ones |
| 20:02.48 | geist | they are |
| 20:02.52 | Laser | I thought companies are more than happy to develop their own apps |
| 20:03.02 | stelleg | wasabi: strange, thanks |
| 20:03.03 | cmonex | the radio is not just an app.. |
| 20:03.32 | Laser | But I think that now companies have a ready made application in java that they can use and integrate the radio stacks from providers to take out phones |
| 20:03.33 | geist | most smart phones use a two cpu solution to seperate the rado from the apps |
| 20:03.44 | cmonex | why would you do your own radio stack if not needed |
| 20:03.45 | Laser | Geist - yes, I am aware of the radio architecture |
| 20:04.03 | *** join/#android ericrw (n=eric@pool-71-162-251-90.phlapa.fios.verizon.net) |
| 20:04.16 | geist | and you usually buy the radio, since it's not really feasible to develop it in house |
| 20:04.16 | Laser | cmonex - with just android, I dont think a company can sell phones. they would need to integrate the android with the radio from another provider. |
| 20:04.28 | cmonex | and whats the point? :) |
| 20:04.30 | geist | yeah, why can't they sell that? |
| 20:04.53 | cmonex | they also need to integrate the hardware with android :P |
| 20:04.56 | geist | yeah |
| 20:04.57 | cmonex | drivers |
| 20:05.00 | Laser | Companies like Nokia already have radios. Nokia has symbian too. Why is Nokia trying to invest in Android? |
| 20:05.19 | wasabi | Maybe because they think it's better than Symbian. |
| 20:05.29 | geist | and maybe nokia wont, but there are a lot of other companies out there |
| 20:05.35 | Laser | By radio, I mean - hardware (chipset) + radio protocol stack |
| 20:06.19 | Laser | I keep reading in the blogs that Nokia has formed a team to look at android |
| 20:06.28 | Disconnect | well wifi is no better on rc30 :/ |
| 20:06.39 | jriley60 | nope |
| 20:06.42 | geist | then they have an even easier job than most |
| 20:06.50 | geist | especially if they develop their own radio stack |
| 20:06.57 | oyeoj | Disconnect: yeah :( |
| 20:06.59 | *** join/#android systm (n=systm@c-76-20-23-163.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
| 20:07.06 | Laser | yeah Nokia stacks are pretty stable and they are known world over for their phones |
| 20:07.09 | systm | hey DarkriftX |
| 20:07.16 | geist | right, so nokia could do it |
| 20:07.24 | Laser | So the future for mobile application developer companies doesnt look that bright eh! |
| 20:07.33 | geist | eh? |
| 20:07.51 | DarkriftX | sup |
| 20:08.14 | oyeoj | ... |
| 20:08.17 | geist | why would it not look bright? |
| 20:08.37 | DarkriftX | oooh, someone is writing an "editing bootloader" page on my wiki :S |
| 20:08.44 | Laser | What would happen to Symbian if Nokia would want to completely or largely move on to android? |
| 20:08.47 | Laser | Just a thought |
| 20:08.55 | geist | they'd die. good riddance |
| 20:08.57 | systm | im trying to install the modified RC30 and Recovery Image, when i type su after adb shell, i dont have root |
| 20:09.02 | Laser | I started using linux over 8 years ago and find an increasing population who will be happy with linux now |
| 20:09.05 | oyeoj | who cares about symbian? |
| 20:09.13 | jriley60 | good darkrift i've been looking for 0one of those |
| 20:09.15 | jriley60 | : ) |
| 20:09.18 | cmonex | so Laser, the app devs will just move to android. |
| 20:09.21 | systm | oyeoj, about 45% of the phone user populatioN? |
| 20:09.22 | Laser | I dont care about symbian |
| 20:09.38 | oyeoj | systm: lies. they dont even know what their phone runs. |
| 20:09.44 | systm | oyeoj, lol |
| 20:09.44 | Laser | i was just trying to picture what would be the future say in about 7 years time |
| 20:09.58 | cmonex | so why is it not a bright future.. |
| 20:10.05 | cmonex | they can dev for android or whatever the hype will be then |
| 20:10.22 | Laser | yeah I think to survive they will have to make a move or open source their own kind of legacy systems |
| 20:10.40 | systm | DarkriftX, is that something you know about |
| 20:10.56 | Laser | So Java might end up leading the mobile application space. [I pray this happens] |
| 20:11.06 | DarkriftX | systm, i dont actaully have a g1 so i might not be the best help |
| 20:11.12 | DarkriftX | i just collect info :)) |
| 20:11.21 | cmonex | it's already leading on non smart phones :) |
| 20:11.33 | systm | DarkriftX, well, i just thought you got root on adb? |
| 20:11.39 | Laser | In Europe, what is the cheapest price the android might be available for? To see if I can afford one :) |
| 20:11.57 | Laser | Smartphones are the future I believe. |
| 20:12.13 | geist | i thought children were the future |
| 20:12.14 | Laser | yeah popular smart phones heavily use Java |
| 20:12.28 | Laser | Geist - good one :) :) |
| 20:13.01 | Laser | Well guys, it is getting a bit late for me. Thanks to all of you for being patient enough to help me understand Android |
| 20:13.06 | geist | sure |
| 20:13.07 | oyeoj | music has the right to children |
| 20:13.08 | Laser | I neednt have to dig my head into those documents |
| 20:13.27 | Laser | I have to get on to couple of things before the weekend really slips out of my hand |
| 20:13.32 | Laser | Have a nice evening |
| 20:13.37 | Laser | See you folks sometime later |
| 20:13.40 | Laser | bye for now |
| 20:13.53 | rreck | how do i know the IP address to telnet to, when I "telnet into the device"? |
| 20:13.55 | systm | how do i get root with adb? |
| 20:14.39 | *** join/#android zewm_ (i=FatandUg@adsl-068-209-101-180.sip.mia.bellsouth.net) |
| 20:15.54 | Gary|tp | rreck: netstat on the device |
| 20:16.04 | rreck | thanks |
| 20:16.05 | Gary|tp | or check router |
| 20:17.07 | spikebike | I check the dhcp logs |
| 20:17.21 | spikebike | till I assigned it an IP anyways |
| 20:18.11 | rreck | spikebike: are you talking to me? |
| 20:18.17 | Disconnect | lot easier to just click on the wifi AP (in settings) and it'll show it |
| 20:18.46 | rreck | oic i needs to be on your wifi, i thought you could telnet back in through internet |
| 20:19.06 | spikebike | you can |
| 20:19.17 | spikebike | netstat can tell you locally |
| 20:19.17 | rreck | it aint answering |
| 20:19.28 | spikebike | is it running? check with ps |
| 20:19.30 | *** join/#android oavdeev (n=oavdeev@79.120.41.39) |
| 20:20.00 | Disconnect | most of the time tmob's proxy will NAT so you can't get in from outside |
| 20:20.09 | systm | how do you reboot in recovery mode on the G1 |
| 20:20.13 | Disconnect | you aren't on rc30 yet right? |
| 20:20.18 | Disconnect | systm: hold down home while booting |
| 20:20.26 | systm | ;) |
| 20:21.03 | rreck | yeah its running and tmob must be filtering |
| 20:21.06 | rreck | thanks for the answers |
| 20:21.16 | rreck | i will have to deal with it hating my wep |
| 20:21.28 | *** join/#android schmylan (n=schmylan@ppp-70-251-98-116.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net) |
| 20:21.54 | Damm | rreck, netstat |
| 20:22.04 | Gary|tp | yeah, you can't use tmobiles connection because of the nat |
| 20:22.07 | Disconnect | Damm: erm, lagged? :) |
| 20:22.11 | *** part/#android Laser (n=digitchi@92.20.201.37) |
| 20:22.42 | Damm | Disconnect, slow response |
| 20:22.49 | Disconnect | :) |
| 20:22.51 | rreck | i guess i can stop telnet without root? i get permission denied when i try to kill it |
| 20:22.51 | rreck | cant i mean |
| 20:22.53 | spikebike | yeah, best to use wifi |
| 20:23.17 | Gary|tp | well yeah cause its running as root :P |
| 20:23.35 | rreck | but how did i start it as root though? |
| 20:23.46 | Disconnect | rreck: hit enter enter kill (whatever) |
| 20:23.47 | Disconnect | should work |
| 20:24.01 | Disconnect | and then go read about what it is actually doing in rc19/28/29 |
| 20:24.29 | zewm_ | is away.. autoaway/10m [lp!on] |
| 20:24.39 | rreck | yeah i read, i was just having brain fart. thanks again |
| 20:24.50 | Disconnect | rreck: http://android-dls.com/wiki/index.php?title=G1_Root_Bug_Explained |
| 20:24.57 | cmonex | btw, interesting post http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=2877855&postcount=7 |
| 20:25.03 | cmonex | he claims he wasnt asked.. |
| 20:25.17 | rreck | cmonex: tmob said there is no 10g cap |
| 20:25.24 | rreck | or step down in service |
| 20:25.26 | cmonex | heh and one last thing:[20:07:16] <DarkriftX> romainguy_, id have to say for all the hacking that is happening, these devices are surprisingly resilient ----> would be more resilient if you could install NBH's from SPL.. |
| 20:25.37 | DarkriftX | lol |
| 20:25.41 | cmonex | rreck: cool, then maybe |
| 20:25.43 | cmonex | er |
| 20:25.51 | cmonex | so, then maybe that was a different package, hmm.. |
| 20:25.54 | rreck | cmonex: are you in the US? |
| 20:26.03 | cmonex | no |
| 20:26.10 | rreck | cmonex: i am getting a second opinion |
| 20:26.26 | cmonex | but the "unlimited" internet here involves similar things too, so i wasnt surprised when i heard tmobile put the cap at 10GB |
| 20:26.42 | rreck | cmonex: im outside washington DC |
| 20:26.45 | cmonex | ok, do get a second opinion and see |
| 20:26.48 | cmonex | oh |
| 20:27.04 | rreck | cmonex: exactly im checking with other people in corporate before believing them |
| 20:27.06 | cmonex | DarkriftX... dont ya agree :P |
| 20:27.11 | DarkriftX | yes |
| 20:27.18 | cmonex | even if you hose both boot.img and recovery.img you coul reinstall them from NBH |
| 20:27.19 | cmonex | could* |
| 20:27.21 | cmonex | sigh |
| 20:27.27 | DarkriftX | i was commenting on the fact that the recovery makes it a lil safer |
| 20:27.40 | cmonex | hm, without it it wouldn't be safe at all :) |
| 20:27.45 | cmonex | and not somezhing that can be released |
| 20:27.58 | *** join/#android martinni (i=martinni@208.92.19.117) |
| 20:28.08 | DarkriftX | anyone know how to add a new link to navigation on mediawiki? |
| 20:29.51 | *** join/#android Dougie187 (n=doug@68.35.245.156) |
| 20:34.38 | systm | for some reason i cannot put the recovery image on the G1 |
| 20:35.02 | scootley | DarkriftX: does this help: http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:Navigation_bar |
| 20:35.11 | DarkriftX | yeah, found it :) |
| 20:35.12 | DarkriftX | thx |
| 20:35.42 | systm | DarkriftX, where is your wiki? |
| 20:35.44 | DarkriftX | interesting read |
| 20:35.49 | DarkriftX | android-dls.com/wiki |
| 20:37.31 | digitalspaghetti | so the debian hack? is that basically adding a boot manager to startup to you can boot android or deb? |
| 20:38.47 | Jamie__ | no; just a debian chroot |
| 20:39.33 | Jamie__ | just installed it. Trying to bring up openvpn. Anybody here built kernel modules for the G1 yet? |
| 20:40.35 | Jamie__ | I assume the git tree from android.git.kernel.org is the place to start. |
| 20:41.45 | systm | anyone know how to get root with adb? |
| 20:43.14 | DarkriftX | systm, have you installed the custom RC30 |
| 20:43.28 | DarkriftX | oh, nvm, just read above |
| 20:43.35 | systm | no, im trying to.. i need the recovery on installed first |
| 20:43.43 | DarkriftX | you need to get root through terminal first |
| 20:43.55 | systm | er.. |
| 20:43.55 | DarkriftX | are you on rc29? |
| 20:44.08 | systm | si |
| 20:44.14 | DarkriftX | ok, im going to try to help you |
| 20:44.21 | DarkriftX | but i have not done this, so beware now |
| 20:44.29 | systm | ok :| |
| 20:44.30 | DarkriftX | first, reboot your phone |
| 20:45.08 | systm | ok. |
| 20:45.21 | DarkriftX | second, as soon as its rebooted, type "telnetd" and hit enter |
| 20:45.29 | DarkriftX | third, on your computer, telnet into your phones IP |
| 20:45.56 | DarkriftX | if it does not connect, try telnetd again and try to reconnect |
| 20:46.14 | systm | cant i just use pterminal? cd /system/bin , telnetd? |
| 20:46.17 | MystSparks_ | I'm doing the same thing right now... trying to get adb working.. instlaling the modified recovery image on a rc29 system |
| 20:46.18 | DarkriftX | you can |
| 20:46.20 | DarkriftX | but its not needed |
| 20:46.31 | DarkriftX | telnetd just made you think it was doing something |
| 20:46.38 | DarkriftX | all it was doing was giving you a box to type in |
| 20:46.45 | DarkriftX | which is not needed |
| 20:47.02 | DarkriftX | everything you type goes to a root terminal already (that is the bug) |
| 20:47.11 | DarkriftX | we just originally thought it had to be done through a terminal |
| 20:48.04 | systm | its not doing anything. |
| 20:48.12 | Disconnect | and the root shell doesn't understand modifiers. so cd /system reads as cd .system |
| 20:48.14 | DarkriftX | unable to connect? |
| 20:48.21 | systm | there we gi |
| 20:48.32 | systm | ok in shell |
| 20:48.37 | DarkriftX | type id |
| 20:48.40 | DarkriftX | tell me if you are root |
| 20:49.00 | systm | twa |
| 20:49.02 | systm | yes* |
| 20:49.04 | DarkriftX | mount -o remount,rw -t yaffs2 /dev/block/mtdblock3 /system |
| 20:49.11 | DarkriftX | that will make your system writeable |
| 20:49.38 | systm | m |
| 20:49.40 | systm | kay* |
| 20:49.48 | DarkriftX | then cat /system/bin/sh > /system/bin/su |
| 20:50.00 | DarkriftX | chmod 4755 /system/bin/su |
| 20:50.11 | *** part/#android martinni (i=martinni@208.92.19.117) |
| 20:50.12 | DarkriftX | that should give you a "su" command that makes you root |
| 20:50.17 | DarkriftX | try running that command from adb |
| 20:50.21 | DarkriftX | you should have root |
| 20:50.24 | DarkriftX | but FIRST |
| 20:50.30 | DarkriftX | you need to rename your certs so you dont get an update |
| 20:50.53 | DarkriftX | mv /system/etc/security/otacerts.zip /system/etc/security/otacerts.zip.nothankyou |
| 20:51.34 | systm | hold up, the telnet for windows is fail, it cant go back, or anything and its annoying.. |
| 20:51.45 | DarkriftX | yes |
| 20:51.54 | DarkriftX | you have to fix that by running the su or sh commands |
| 20:53.17 | systm | GAH! |
| 20:53.20 | orci_ | best imap client? |
| 20:54.11 | systm | ok.. got it |
| 20:54.52 | DarkriftX | ok |
| 20:54.57 | DarkriftX | did you rename the certs? |
| 20:55.15 | DarkriftX | if so, you are good to install the modified recovery now per instructions |
| 20:55.28 | systm | ok.. |
| 20:55.50 | systm | if its already in /system, could i just reboot with home and see |
| 20:55.57 | DarkriftX | is it? |
| 20:56.00 | systm | yea |
| 20:56.03 | DarkriftX | thats the default one |
| 20:56.13 | DarkriftX | did you put the modified one on yet? |
| 20:56.37 | DarkriftX | http://android-dls.com/wiki/index.php?title=Keeping_Root |
| 20:57.08 | systm | no i mean from the xda thread |
| 20:57.14 | DarkriftX | thats the same one |
| 20:57.30 | DarkriftX | i took JesusFreke's and put it on my wiki (he helped edit the wiki a little) |
| 20:57.48 | *** join/#android Chainfire (n=Chainfir@unaffiliated/chainfire) |
| 20:57.51 | *** join/#android zodttd (n=me@user-142gtg7.cable.mindspring.com) |
| 20:58.29 | DarkriftX | flash the modified recovery, then reboot and flash the modified rc30 |
| 20:58.31 | DarkriftX | and you should be good |
| 20:59.17 | DarkriftX | i really want a way to put android on my axim :( |
| 20:59.21 | DarkriftX | nobody seems to be workign on this |
| 20:59.25 | *** join/#android famast (n=famast@c-71-206-79-22.hsd1.fl.comcast.net) |
| 21:00.47 | systm | how do i boot into recovery mode, someone said home and i dont think thats right |
| 21:01.20 | DarkriftX | home + power |
| 21:01.38 | systm | then i am doing something wrong |
| 21:01.43 | MystSparks_ | what is the boot_nosecure.img file in the AndroidMod.zip? |
| 21:01.52 | DarkriftX | hold home, press power, keep holding home till you see the triangle image |
| 21:02.15 | DarkriftX | it removes the secure (enables root) MystSparks_ (i think anyways) |
| 21:03.20 | systm | a hah! |
| 21:03.25 | systm | ok, nao what? |
| 21:04.05 | DarkriftX | did you already flash the recovery image? |
| 21:04.18 | DarkriftX | do you see "using testing keys" at the top? |
| 21:05.04 | systm | i did the recovery, but have not flashed yet, and i cannot get to the SD Card atm |
| 21:05.14 | DarkriftX | then dont do anythign else yet |
| 21:05.22 | systm | how do i reboot? |
| 21:05.25 | DarkriftX | you have to flash that before going farther |
| 21:05.27 | DarkriftX | hold power i think |
| 21:05.42 | systm | er,, |
| 21:06.07 | DarkriftX | http://android-dls.com/wiki/index.php?title=Boot_Modifiers |
| 21:06.14 | DarkriftX | like i said, i havent done this |
| 21:06.19 | DarkriftX | im just reading from others info |
| 21:06.22 | systm | pulling battery |
| 21:06.28 | DarkriftX | k |
| 21:06.46 | *** join/#android shackan (n=frob@host141-106-dynamic.57-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) |
| 21:13.21 | alansj | hey, I noticed that JesusFreke's modified rc30 boot.img does not include the new console=null kernel arg... what's the consensus on whether or not we want that? |
| 21:13.22 | systm | ok here we go.. :) |
| 21:13.29 | Chainfire | DarkriftX we got root on rc30 now? :) |
| 21:14.29 | *** join/#android p_quarles (n=lee@unaffiliated/pquarles) |
| 21:18.31 | poetic_folly|G5 | a bit offtopic - any .htaccess experts here? how do i make RewriteRule dists/stable/Release stats.php NOT redirect the file Release.gpg, ONLY Release? |
| 21:19.49 | systm | ok.. i updated it, now what |
| 21:20.19 | MystSparks_ | sounds like a regular expression issue. In the RewriteCond, make sure there is a $ at the end |
| 21:20.34 | *** join/#android michaelnovakjr_ (n=chatzill@ool-18ba6e83.dyn.optonline.net) |
| 21:23.26 | *** join/#android tauno (n=tauntz@23.228.190.90.dyn.estpak.ee) |
| 21:23.41 | systm | what can i do now with RC30? |
| 21:24.42 | andyross | Hrm... FWIW, removing Update.* does *not* prevent an update from happening. My phone apparently pulled and applied it last night anyway (which failed, of course). I woke up to a brick this morning and had to recover with the R29 image. |
| 21:25.46 | poetic_folly|G5 | thanks MystSparks_ - so: RewriteRule dists/stable/Release$ stats.php |
| 21:25.48 | poetic_folly|G5 | ? |
| 21:27.07 | MystSparks_ | I've never used the adb... I have it installed now... I unzipped the recovery image to the sd card, it's mounted currently, I execute the adb push from that directory and get "error: device not found" |
| 21:27.19 | MystSparks_ | probably need the debugging mode or something |
| 21:28.08 | MystSparks_ | poetic: I'd say try it and see if it works. I forget the syntax at the moment, but if it's using rgular expressions, you'll need the $ at the end to say the string ends that way |
| 21:30.14 | poetic_folly|G5 | MystSparks_: thanks, it worked. ;) |
| 21:31.13 | spikebike | andy yeah we had that happen to someone else |
| 21:31.30 | spikebike | as annoying as it is, the safest thing to do is remove otacerts |
| 21:31.33 | MystSparks_ | np poetic |
| 21:31.48 | andyross | Or just install the hacked R30 I guess, which is more surgery than I planned on. |
| 21:31.49 | DarkriftX | Chainfire, yes, but you have to start it on rc29 |
| 21:31.52 | spikebike | oalthough it occurs to me what we should do is just change the host it updates from |
| 21:32.57 | DarkriftX | we tried that spikebike |
| 21:33.03 | spikebike | and? |
| 21:33.05 | DarkriftX | it kills im and market |
| 21:33.12 | DarkriftX | and contacts i think |
| 21:34.12 | spikebike | ah |
| 21:34.30 | spikebike | ideally we can find source |
| 21:34.32 | DarkriftX | and i was almost crucified for having that idea |
| 21:34.42 | spikebike | and redirect only updates |
| 21:34.58 | DarkriftX | better yet, write our own updater :) |
| 21:35.18 | DarkriftX | have a central hub with update hosts and ahve it connect, get a url and download/install the modified update |
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| 21:37.29 | elliottt | anyone have time for a linux/g1 question? |
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| 21:38.25 | elliottt | i've got the udev rules all set to change the mode of the device when it's connected, and i've verified it with udevadm test, but i never see it registered with ./adb devices |
| 21:38.27 | DarkriftX | just ask |
| 21:38.30 | DarkriftX | if someone knows they will reply |
| 21:39.12 | elliottt | is there something more that i need to do to make this happen? i've also got all the eclipse business set up, but that seemed unrelated to any of this. |
| 21:39.53 | elliottt | everything that i've read online seems to indicate that things should just work at this point, and i can't find any information about the case where there's no device being registered |
| 21:40.02 | michaelnovakjr_ | elliottt: did you select USB debugging on the G1 in the settings? |
| 21:41.06 | elliottt | michaelnovakjr_: yep |
| 21:41.27 | michaelnovakjr_ | did you chmod your 50-android.rules file? |
| 21:41.43 | andyross | Or just run adb as root to test -- if it works, then your udev setup isn't working right. |
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| 21:42.23 | elliottt | michaelnovakjr_: yes, a+rx, though i can't see why the x is needed |
| 21:42.38 | elliottt | michaelnovakjr_: running udevadm test with the path to the device showed the rule firing even without the x |
| 21:43.18 | elliottt | andyross: it isn't working if i run it as root, either |
| 21:43.22 | michaelnovakjr_ | have you disconnected and reconnected the phone since you made your changes? |
| 21:43.27 | elliottt | michaelnovakjr_: yes |
| 21:43.30 | elliottt | many times :) |
| 21:43.45 | andyross | The device is on the bus? lsusb should show something like: |
| 21:43.45 | andyross | Bus 005 Device 039: ID 0bb4:0c02 High Tech Computer Corp. |
| 21:43.53 | michaelnovakjr_ | pastebin your 50-android.rules file |
| 21:44.03 | elliottt | michaelnovakjr_: Bus 001 Device 009: ID 0bb4:0c02 High Tech Computer Corp. |
| 21:44.30 | michaelnovakjr_ | that isn't your 50-android.rules file :) |
| 21:44.35 | michaelnovakjr_ | or atleast it shouldn't be |
| 21:44.46 | elliottt | michaelnovakjr_: http://rafb.net/p/USjHoH68.html |
| 21:44.59 | elliottt | michaelnovakjr_: sorry, that should have been to andyross. |
| 21:45.08 | andyross | And Settings -> Applications -> Development -> USB Debugging is checked? |
| 21:45.14 | elliottt | andyross: yes, it's checked |
| 21:45.27 | michaelnovakjr_ | change ATTRS to SYSFS |
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| 21:47.07 | andyross | elliottt: When in doubt, reboot both endpoints and reattach? I did have a glitch once when I noticed an oops in dmesg. |
| 21:47.22 | elliottt | michaelnovakjr_: no change with the ATTRS/SYSFS change |
| 21:47.42 | elliottt | andyross: i've tried rebooting my laptop, and the phone, no change :( |
| 21:49.15 | michaelnovakjr_ | elliottt: what linux are you running? |
| 21:50.20 | elliottt | michaelnovakjr_: archlinux with kernel 2.6.27 |
| 21:52.05 | michaelnovakjr_ | hm, following the instructions on the site has worked for me, not sure what your issue could be, I've setup three machines with device debugging |
| 21:53.07 | elliottt | michaelnovakjr_: bummer. sounds like it's something to do with my configuration then :/ |
| 21:53.46 | michaelnovakjr_ | possibly |
| 21:54.03 | elliottt | i should give this a go on my other machin, and see if i get the same result |
| 21:54.29 | michaelnovakjr_ | it's worth a shot |
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| 22:05.09 | orci | so where does yahoo messenger save my password, for example? not on sdcard, right? |
| 22:05.31 | DarkriftX | its in /etc/yahoopassword.xml |
| 22:05.41 | MystSparks_ | So when trying to run "adb shell" after the recovery.img is updated, and I'm in recovery mode.. using test keys... I get"exec '/system/bin/sh' failed; No such file or direcotry92) - i verified it exists and has proper permissions |
| 22:06.12 | DarkriftX | odd MystSparks_ |
| 22:06.19 | DarkriftX | can you go manually execute it? |
| 22:06.22 | orci | DarkriftX, is that an sdcard, too? (that's a bit harder to remove?) |
| 22:06.23 | DarkriftX | or doyou not even get shell like that |
| 22:06.28 | DarkriftX | orci, i was joking |
| 22:06.58 | DarkriftX | i forgot you were talking about security till after i commented |
| 22:07.10 | orci | heh ok |
| 22:07.12 | MystSparks_ | it just exits... If I boot into the system, I can telnetd and then I have root fine... just in recovery mode |
| 22:07.23 | DarkriftX | hrmmm |
| 22:07.35 | DarkriftX | thats odd |
| 22:07.41 | DarkriftX | i wish jesusfreke was in here |
| 22:07.45 | DarkriftX | post that in his thread |
| 22:07.46 | MystSparks_ | lol |
| 22:07.57 | DarkriftX | http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?p=2881206 |
| 22:08.03 | MystSparks_ | alright... I'll verify I didn't do anything stupid first. :) |
| 22:08.09 | DarkriftX | lol. ok |
| 22:08.33 | orci | can I increase the / size? can I replace that card? is it also a flash memory card? |
| 22:08.42 | DarkriftX | no |
| 22:08.53 | DarkriftX | everything that is not /sdcard is unchangeable |
| 22:09.12 | DarkriftX | they are custom partitions built into the device |
| 22:09.38 | orci | DarkriftX, so they need serious equipment to read that card without breaking the screen lock |
| 22:09.51 | orci | ? |
| 22:09.53 | DarkriftX | there is no card |
| 22:09.54 | DarkriftX | and no |
| 22:10.16 | DarkriftX | screen lock is not a security feature |
| 22:10.27 | DarkriftX | its so you do not press buttons while your phone is in your pocket |
| 22:10.47 | elliottt | michaelnovakjr_: also failed on my other machine |
| 22:11.05 | michaelnovakjr_ | what config is your other machine elliottt ? |
| 22:11.16 | elliottt | also archlinux, unfortunately |
| 22:11.24 | elliottt | but an i686, instead of x86_64 |
| 22:11.58 | elliottt | i'll talk to a co-worker about it. he uses debian, and has gotten it working successfully. |
| 22:12.04 | michaelnovakjr_ | hm, not sure... i'm using ubuntu without an issue |
| 22:12.18 | DarkriftX | elliottt, try a vm |
| 22:12.31 | elliottt | DarkriftX: good idea. |
| 22:12.39 | DarkriftX | someone earlier used a win vm to mess with it, so an ubuntu vm would prob work also |
| 22:12.58 | DarkriftX | s/mess with it/connect to the device/ |
| 22:13.02 | DarkriftX | not sure what you are doing, but might work |
| 22:13.21 | orci | do we have basic unix commands such as du, fdisk etc.? |
| 22:13.28 | DarkriftX | some orci |
| 22:13.33 | DarkriftX | once you install busybox, you have most |
| 22:13.42 | DarkriftX | i think there is df, no du or fdisk |
| 22:13.58 | elliottt | DarkriftX: all i wanted to do was run ./adb devices to see what i could do |
| 22:14.08 | orci | DarkriftX, busybox is not in market I guess |
| 22:14.18 | DarkriftX | no orci its not an android |
| 22:14.54 | DarkriftX | an android app |
| 22:15.02 | DarkriftX | its a linux multi-call binary |
| 22:15.25 | DarkriftX | orci, http://android-dls.com/wiki/index.php?title=Rooting_Android |
| 22:17.36 | orci | DarkriftX, OK thank you |
| 22:17.37 | DarkriftX | np |
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| 22:24.30 | MystSparks_ | darkriftx, looks like I cannot be in recovery mode to use adb shell, that's why i was getting that error... |
| 22:24.38 | MystSparks_ | works fine when i boot normally |
| 22:25.14 | DarkriftX | ahhhh, makes sense |
| 22:25.21 | MystSparks_ | ;) silly me |
| 22:25.34 | DarkriftX | oh yeah, it only gives you file access |
| 22:25.39 | MystSparks_ | ye[ |
| 22:25.41 | MystSparks_ | yep |
| 22:26.04 | MystSparks_ | (I'm learning a lot today bout this little toy, lol) |
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| 22:30.18 | ttuttle | hey |
| 22:30.42 | ion_g1 | y0 |
| 22:30.44 | ttuttle | Anyone know when A2DP is slated to be released? |
| 22:32.10 | mikez5 | ttuttle: when you find out, let me know |
| 22:32.27 | ttuttle | mikez5: Okay. I'll ask lockwo... damn. |
| 22:32.54 | mikez5 | ttuttle: It is all ready to go now, except for a small matter of getting it to work :-) |
| 22:33.12 | ttuttle | mikez5: Oh. Lemme know when I can try it. I've ordered the headset from sellout.woot today. |
| 22:33.49 | ttuttle | mikez5: The nice bit about it is that I can plug in any headphones I like. |
| 22:34.40 | mikez5 | Maybe some y'all could stop playing with root and start writing something useful and contributing to the project :-) |
| 22:35.09 | DarkriftX | MystSparks_, i know what you mean |
| 22:35.19 | DarkriftX | i dont even have one yet and i almost know it inside and out |
| 22:35.26 | ttuttle | puts his hands on his hips next to mikez5 and says "Yeah, what he said!" |
| 22:35.50 | ionstorm | anyone know of all the changes with the rc30 full update |
| 22:36.04 | DarkriftX | no ionstorm im still looking for a list to add to the wiki |
| 22:36.14 | DarkriftX | there are like 2-3 changes i have on there |
| 22:36.37 | DarkriftX | Fixes: root bug by setting console=null to stop the redirection, removes telnetd (telnetd does not seem to even exist in this update), ???? |
| 22:36.37 | DarkriftX | New Features: Scrolling text for home screen (???) |
| 22:36.51 | ttuttle | Scrolling text? |
| 22:36.56 | DarkriftX | yeah :S |
| 22:37.01 | ttuttle | What do you mean? |
| 22:37.03 | DarkriftX | havent found more details |
| 22:37.22 | DarkriftX | but i think it was romainguy_ that said his scrolling text made it into the update |
| 22:37.30 | DarkriftX | from what ive heard it makes long shortcut names scroll |
| 22:37.33 | DarkriftX | instead of wrapping |
| 22:37.39 | DarkriftX | but that could be wrong |
| 22:37.43 | ttuttle | I've never seen them wrap. |
| 22:37.55 | ttuttle | I hope they don't scroll actively all the time. That sounds distracting. |
| 22:38.00 | DarkriftX | lol |
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| 22:38.23 | ttuttle | OH wow! |
| 22:38.26 | ttuttle | They *do* scroll. |
| 22:38.32 | ttuttle | brb |
| 22:38.35 | DarkriftX | lo |
| 22:38.37 | DarkriftX | lol* |
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| 22:40.44 | anno^da_ | to all the us guys here what does "In Box Factory" mean ? |
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| 22:41.22 | DarkriftX | ? |
| 22:41.33 | DarkriftX | meaning exactly as it came when you removed it from the box? |
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| 22:54.05 | MystSparks_ | Anyone know of a way to make a backup of files recursively i.e the system... I don't want to have to cat each individual file |
| 22:54.16 | Fnord^ | tar |
| 22:54.21 | MystSparks_ | :P |
| 22:54.44 | DarkriftX | MystSparks_, "busybox cp -s busybox cp" then "cp -s busybox tar" |
| 22:55.03 | DarkriftX | do that in the /system/bin folder btw |
| 22:55.11 | DarkriftX | assuming you ahve busybox there already |
| 22:55.41 | MystSparks_ | cool, thanks |
| 22:58.06 | Fnord^ | ./system/core/rootdir/init.rc:service flash_recovery /system/bin/flash_image recovery /system/recovery.img |
| 22:58.24 | Fnord^ | wonder why they do that |
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| 23:06.06 | tsunami | anyone else having debugging problems with rc30? i can no longer connect to my phone from eclipse (exception follows), and mapview no longer seems to respect my debugging api key. looks to me as if the jailbreak fix disabled the shell for debugging as well? |
| 23:06.15 | languish | ttuttle, huhwhat? what shortcut names exactly do scroll? |
| 23:06.18 | tsunami | java.io.IOException: device (HT839GZ28780) request rejected: device offline |
| 23:06.19 | tsunami | at com.android.ddmlib.AdbHelper.setDevice(Unknown Source) |
| 23:06.19 | tsunami | at com.android.ddmlib.AdbHelper.executeRemoteCommand(Unknown Source) |
| 23:06.19 | tsunami | at com.android.ddmlib.Device.executeShellCommand(Unknown Source) |
| 23:06.19 | tsunami | at com.android.ddmuilib.logcat.LogPanel$3.run(Unknown Source) |
| 23:06.32 | languish | tsunami, use pastbin don't flood |
| 23:06.37 | tsunami | my bad |
| 23:06.41 | *** join/#android Fnord^ (n=Fnord@64.72.120.80) |
| 23:06.43 | Fnord^ | grr |
| 23:06.48 | languish | owl |
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| 23:13.34 | Ramblurr | I have a <shape> inside which i am defining <corners android:radius="foo"> |
| 23:14.04 | Ramblurr | (shape is type=rectangle) this results in a rectangle with all 4 corners rounded |
| 23:14.24 | Ramblurr | however, when i change android:radius to android:topRightRadius and android:topLeftRadius |
| 23:14.35 | Ramblurr | i get a rectangle with zero rounded corners |
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| 23:18.42 | Ramblurr | hm ok |
| 23:19.01 | Ramblurr | adding android:bottomLeft/RightRadius="0.1dp" created the desired effect |
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| 23:29.10 | elliottt | andyross: i ran adb kill-server as root, and was able to list a device. oddly enough, i couldn't then kill the server and list it as a normal user. |
| 23:29.27 | elliottt | andyross: i think that there must be some sort of odd permissions issue somewhere |
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| 23:35.43 | mikez5 | elliottt: when you type "adb devices", it will restart the server. |
| 23:35.58 | elliottt | mikez5: ah, thanks. i'll stop typing adb kill-server :) |
| 23:36.17 | mikez5 | Confusing things will happen if you use some adb commands as root and some as not. So it is best to get the /etc/udev/rules.d thing working. |
| 23:36.44 | elliottt | mikez5: well, i thought i had it working. must be some subtle difference between how archlinux and ubuntu are using udev |
| 23:36.53 | mikez5 | adb kill-server shouldn't be necessary very often. It is used to restart adb if something goes wrong. |
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| 23:37.02 | elliottt | i noticed that if i don't set the group, it sets the group as root, so i changed that |
| 23:37.19 | Sorium | hey anyone know any good articles on mobile telephony?? -- understanding the real process of what's going on behind the code? |
| 23:37.20 | mikez5 | I had trouble getting it to work under gentoo, but I found adding my user to the "usb" group worked. |
| 23:37.30 | elliottt | though, i guess that shouldn't matter if the mode is 0666 |
| 23:37.50 | mikez5 | You might need to be in plugdev group for the udev trick to work. |
| 23:38.02 | Ramblurr | is there a way to draw a border/outline around a shape? |
| 23:38.10 | mikez5 | The problem is the USB device files get recreated every time you reconnect, so chmod 666 isn't very convenient. |
| 23:40.02 | elliottt | mikez5: plugdev doesn't exist on my system |
| 23:42.43 | elliottt | mikez5: i don't think that adb devices does kill the server. if i run it as root first, it works as a normal user afterword, but fails the otherway around |
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| 23:43.52 | mikez5 | The first time you run adb, it forks itself and leaves a "server" copy of itself running. The second time, adb connects to the adb server via a socket. |
| 23:44.15 | mikez5 | It is the forked server that needs access to the USB driver, so that is why it works if you run it as root the first time. |
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| 23:44.57 | mikez5 | adb kill-server connects to the server process and sends it a message telling it to quit. So that should work if you type it as non-root. |
| 23:45.33 | mikez5 | Anyway, it is much simpler if you can fix the permissions. |
| 23:45.37 | mikez5 | Try ls -l /dev/bus/usb/001 |
| 23:46.07 | mikez5 | Add yourself to whatever group those files belong to. |
| 23:46.21 | mikez5 | For example, on my system I have: |
| 23:46.23 | elliottt | well, i've got the created symlink with 0666 permissions in /dev, so i'm not sure what else could be the problem, at this point |
| 23:46.23 | mikez5 | crw-rw-r-- 1 root usb 189, 0 Oct 23 13:47 001 |
| 23:46.45 | mikez5 | So adding myself to usb group worked for me. |
| 23:47.03 | mikez5 | what symlinks? |
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| 23:47.32 | elliottt | sorry, device in /dev |
| 23:47.40 | elliottt | here's what i've got at the moment: |
| 23:47.55 | elliottt | crw-rw-rw- 1 root users 189, 21 2008-11-09 15:47 /dev/usbdev1.22 |
| 23:48.06 | elliottt | i'm a member of the users group, so i'm not sure why adb devices is failing |
| 23:48.38 | mikez5 | Oh, adb does not use the /dev/usbdev files. |
| 23:49.05 | elliottt | ah, ok |
| 23:49.09 | mikez5 | adb looks for the device in /dev/bus/usb/ |
| 23:49.49 | elliottt | crw-r--r-- 1 root root 189, 21 2008-11-09 15:47 022 |
| 23:49.50 | elliottt | ok |
| 23:49.59 | elliottt | thanks for that, i felt like i was going insane :) |
| 23:50.13 | mikez5 | For example, it might be /dev/bus/usb/005/083 |
| 23:50.20 | gdsx | romainguy__: |
| 23:50.27 | mikez5 | The 005 might differ depending on which hub you plug it into. |
| 23:50.30 | elliottt | so now i just need to figure out how to work with those permissions, instead of the ones in /dev |
| 23:50.37 | mikez5 | and the 083 will increment each time you connect/disconnect. |
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| 23:51.20 | Chainfire | gdx> are the arm-eabi-* in the Android source dist GNU compatible? (ie, take same options etc as GNU binutils) ? |
| 23:51.24 | Chainfire | *gdsx |
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| 23:51.51 | zhobbs_ | neat, mibbit works pretty well in the android browser |
| 23:52.32 | unix_infidel | zhobbs_: did mibbit put a mobile mibbit version? |
| 23:52.54 | zhobbs_ | dont know, never used it on the desktop |
| 23:53.11 | unix_infidel | would be insane trying to use mibbit without a trackball or dpad. |
| 23:53.51 | DarkriftX | i was gonna add an ajax irc chat to my site but wasnt sure how well it would work |
| 23:54.00 | DarkriftX | on a device that is |
| 23:54.44 | mikez5 | Chainfire: yes, the android arm-eabi-* tools are GNU. |
| 23:54.58 | gdsx | Chainfire: dunno. Are they not GNU or branched from the GNU... yeah... what mikez5 said |
| 23:54.59 | Chainfire | thx mikez5 ... means I got other issues :) |
| 23:55.48 | unix_infidel | anyone been running their G1 on 2.5G getting more than 24 hours on "mixed use?" |
| 23:55.59 | *** join/#android Mibrift (i=4468a1e0@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-7e3166b66d23eca4) |
| 23:57.55 | unix_infidel | DarkriftX: mibbit has an embedded version you can throw anywhere in your site. |
| 23:58.03 | DarkriftX | yeah |
| 23:58.20 | *** part/#android zhobbs_ (i=4308f584@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-8bb734e68eee8278) |
| 23:58.53 | unix_infidel | would require some magic ponies to make mibbit persist while the rest of the site remained dynamic... |