| 00:00.09 | SamSerious | Any suggestions where to start? I've looked into hello world. But, since I don't know java I could not figure out much.. :| |
| 00:00.31 | cbeust_ | SamSerious: I think "Thinking in Java" is still considered a decent beginner book and it's free |
| 00:01.10 | SamSerious | cool. Thanks cbeust_, I'll give it a try. |
| 00:01.23 | tmccrary | Yeah, make sure you write and compile your hello world app using something like gedit and the command line tools |
| 00:01.31 | tmccrary | eclipse hides a lot of stuff that you should know about |
| 00:02.17 | donomo | i cant believe i have to instance a socket factory in order to instance a socket. im surprised there isnt a socket factory manager i have to instance first. |
| 00:03.31 | Cedric_ | donomo: pretty easy to write if you need one, but the extra flexibility offered by the factory comes in handy |
| 00:03.59 | donomo | Cedric_: yeah i like factories in general, i just expected the socket creation mechanism to be a static method. |
| 00:04.57 | Cedric_ | Java sometimes lacks higher level convenience functions like this one (another example would be a copyFile method) |
| 00:05.11 | *** join/#android Sorium (i=Sorium@dhcp0222.hil.resnet.group.upenn.edu) |
| 00:05.30 | Sorium | Yo |
| 00:05.37 | elad1 | Core Java by hosrtmann are all good |
| 00:05.48 | elad1 | horstmann |
| 00:05.55 | Sorium | Is this most popular Android channel on IRC? |
| 00:05.55 | romainguy | donomo: you don't have to create a socket factory |
| 00:06.00 | romainguy | you can create a socket directly |
| 00:06.28 | jsherman | heh actually i think the android code is probably on the better side of code i've seen in terms of not overusing patterns |
| 00:06.29 | donomo | romainguy: what im using is sock = (new PlainSocketFactory()).createSocket(); |
| 00:06.38 | romainguy | why no new Socket()? |
| 00:06.43 | romainguy | +t |
| 00:07.06 | donomo | romainguy: Ha Ha. i never thought of that. |
| 00:07.14 | romainguy | you have a twisted mind :) |
| 00:07.29 | jsherman | on one project I worked on it seemed like the other developers tried to cram as many design patterns as possible into each file |
| 00:08.00 | romainguy | it's often the mark of beginners or not-so-good programmers |
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| 00:08.40 | Sorium | i'm simultneously learning JAva and the Andriod SDK -- not an easy task haha |
| 00:09.09 | michaelnovakjr__ | new Socket() works just fine :) |
| 00:11.50 | Sorium | im tryin to write an RSS reader for Android |
| 00:11.58 | Sorium | anyone know any helpful links on doin this |
| 00:13.01 | *** part/#android Sorium (i=Sorium@dhcp0222.hil.resnet.group.upenn.edu) |
| 00:13.10 | d0nets | how would it be innovative |
| 00:13.13 | d0nets | compared to google reader |
| 00:13.20 | DarkriftX | he left |
| 00:13.20 | elad1 | is TSheets a webview app? |
| 00:13.24 | *** join/#android Laz (n=Laz1@28.184.119.70.cfl.res.rr.com) |
| 00:13.27 | DarkriftX | wasnt popular enough for him in here |
| 00:13.58 | *** join/#android Sorium (i=Sorium@dhcp0222.hil.resnet.group.upenn.edu) |
| 00:14.08 | DarkriftX | and he returns |
| 00:14.11 | d0nets | sorium whats wrong with google reader |
| 00:14.35 | Sorium | nothin -- just lookin for an exercise to increase my android skillz |
| 00:14.51 | d0nets | help me |
| 00:14.51 | d0nets | lol |
| 00:14.58 | d0nets | im trying to port a guitar tuner |
| 00:15.15 | michaelnovakjr__ | skills ends with an s not a z |
| 00:15.19 | Aleksey | How do I check for updates for installed market apps? |
| 00:15.20 | michaelnovakjr__ | :) |
| 00:15.59 | Sorium | aite |
| 00:18.16 | Cedric_ | Aleksey: can't right now, you need to do it manually |
| 00:18.59 | jsherman | where can I find the licenses for the stuff on the G1 |
| 00:19.04 | jsherman | e.g. people posted ROM dumps online |
| 00:19.05 | jsherman | is that legal? |
| 00:19.54 | neekers | aleksey, you can have your program on the G1 perodically check a website for updates |
| 00:20.10 | neekers | periodically |
| 00:21.07 | coding1 | what games for Android exists atm? |
| 00:21.16 | neekers | and then inform the user an update is available |
| 00:21.19 | Cedric_ | Quite a few, look in the Games section |
| 00:21.31 | Cedric_ | PacMan is one of the most popular :) |
| 00:22.25 | coding1 | Is android able to code games similar to PSP ? |
| 00:22.57 | tmccrary | Do you guys know if there are any xvid capable video players for android? |
| 00:23.19 | Aleksey | neekers, how |
| 00:23.49 | languish | suggestion for android.. on the screen lock screen.. allow users to add a name to the device. We have a couple of g1's in the house and sometimes have to take a moment to figure out which is which. It'd be easier to look at the screenlock info and just "see" |
| 00:23.54 | romainguy | coding1: you can write games, even 3d games, but the PSP is more powerful for games |
| 00:24.08 | languish | anyway, tome for sushi |
| 00:24.09 | romainguy | languish: file a feature request |
| 00:24.20 | Cedric_ | languish: Good point, I use a sticker on mine to tell it from my wife's |
| 00:24.24 | languish | romainguy, 'k |
| 00:24.29 | coding1 | romainguy: so we cannot code quality games? |
| 00:24.34 | romainguy | Cedric_: mine is the one with the serial number :) |
| 00:24.37 | tmccrary | The G1 should be pretty comparable, if you had native access |
| 00:24.39 | romainguy | coding1: I didn't say that |
| 00:24.47 | tmccrary | Dalvik is what slows Android down |
| 00:24.51 | Cedric_ | romainguy: yeah mine only has a serial number on the keyboard |
| 00:24.53 | romainguy | tmccrary: not really |
| 00:24.54 | tmccrary | no hardware acceleration, no jit |
| 00:25.02 | romainguy | there is hardware acceleration for OpenGL |
| 00:25.10 | tmccrary | yeah but that's not what I'm talking about |
| 00:25.17 | Cedric_ | tmccrary: I know a few people who would say Dalvik is what makes Java fast on Android :) |
| 00:25.42 | tmccrary | yeah, they'd be called "mentall challenged" |
| 00:25.45 | tmccrary | *mentally |
| 00:25.53 | romainguy | ... |
| 00:25.56 | Cedric_ | Er, not exactly, no |
| 00:26.02 | Cedric_ | They are actually pretty good at what they do |
| 00:26.14 | romainguy | remembers our prototype before Dream, it was running faster than Windows Mobile, on the same device |
| 00:26.15 | romainguy | :) |
| 00:26.41 | jsherman | android runs much faster on the touch than windowsmobile |
| 00:26.44 | michaelnovakjr__ | tmccrary: :) |
| 00:26.49 | michaelnovakjr__ | it makes java fast |
| 00:26.54 | coding1 | romainguy: and Android how many times faster than WinMob is? |
| 00:27.00 | romainguy | jsherman: that's not possible, Android doesn't have a JIT!! |
| 00:27.21 | jsherman | well |
| 00:27.35 | jsherman | i guess by "faster" i mean |
| 00:27.36 | romainguy | jsherman: that was sarcasm |
| 00:27.37 | jsherman | it feels faster |
| 00:27.39 | jsherman | ah ok |
| 00:27.39 | tmccrary | I'm experienced with game development, I've been the lead developer on a pretty serious game engine for PC's |
| 00:27.48 | michaelnovakjr__ | romainguy: i think the appropriate comparsion would be Android is more responsive than WinMo |
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| 00:28.03 | Cedric_ | tmccrary: Were you writing your games in Java? |
| 00:28.03 | coding1 | tmccrary: are you the one who ruined Starcraft? |
| 00:28.11 | tmccrary | Cedric_: yep |
| 00:28.13 | michaelnovakjr__ | haha |
| 00:28.15 | jsherman | actually for raw #s, data transfers were faster too |
| 00:28.18 | michaelnovakjr__ | are you kidding? |
| 00:28.28 | jsherman | which is strance since I figured winmo uses the BSD stack |
| 00:28.29 | tmccrary | yes, I ruined starcraft, sorry :( |
| 00:28.34 | michaelnovakjr__ | tmccrary: you were writing games for windows in java? |
| 00:28.36 | romainguy | michaelnovakjr__: no really, I've seen it draw faster :) |
| 00:28.49 | tmccrary | games for windows in java? |
| 00:28.52 | tmccrary | weh? |
| 00:28.52 | jsherman | maybe they added dumb stuff ontop of it and ruined the beautiful BSD networking stack |
| 00:29.23 | michaelnovakjr__ | you said you wrote windows games in Java |
| 00:29.32 | tmccrary | No I didn't |
| 00:29.51 | michaelnovakjr__ | tmccrary: Were you writing your games in Java? |
| 00:30.01 | michaelnovakjr__ | Cedric_: yep |
| 00:30.19 | coding1 | I never seen a decent Java based Game, that was atractive to play... most were boring |
| 00:30.37 | tmccrary | yeah, there haven't been many |
| 00:30.46 | unix_infidel | freespace2000 was in java iirc. |
| 00:30.58 | tmccrary | michaelnovakjr: Yes, we have a java version of our engine, it complements our C++ implementation and is used inside eclipse for tools |
| 00:31.01 | unix_infidel | erm, freespace2 |
| 00:31.05 | elad1 | runescpae? |
| 00:31.08 | elad1 | :P |
| 00:31.13 | tmccrary | they are based around the same set of specifications |
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| 00:31.25 | tmccrary | and they use the same format |
| 00:31.38 | tmccrary | (s) |
| 00:31.42 | michaelnovakjr__ | interesting, wouldn't have thought java made sense for that |
| 00:31.59 | tmccrary | Java is very, very fast today, with all the fancy JIT and everything |
| 00:32.10 | Cedric_ | tmccrary: interesting. Is it because Eclipse is better for development than your C++ IDE? |
| 00:32.16 | coding1 | what is JIT? |
| 00:32.25 | tmccrary | Eclipse is our C++ IDE |
| 00:32.28 | Dougie187 | michaelnovakjr: hows it going? |
| 00:32.35 | tmccrary | and our Java IDE and our python IDE |
| 00:32.50 | Cedric_ | tmccrary: kinda answers my question, the JDT is better than the CDT :) |
| 00:33.00 | tmccrary | yeah, much better |
| 00:33.05 | tmccrary | although CDT is at least usable now |
| 00:33.12 | Cedric_ | I hear it's making good progress |
| 00:33.18 | tmccrary | there was a time when it was not very good at all |
| 00:33.31 | tmccrary | I guess you could say that about Java and Eclipse as well |
| 00:34.07 | michaelnovakjr__ | Dougie187: howdy |
| 00:34.19 | tmccrary | coding1: Just In Time Compilation |
| 00:34.28 | michaelnovakjr__ | tmccrary: Java is good for certain things, i just didn't think games was one of them |
| 00:34.46 | coding1 | so Android has JIT as well? |
| 00:34.51 | romainguy | interestingly Java has been used for parts of games |
| 00:34.51 | tmccrary | No |
| 00:34.52 | Cedric_ | No |
| 00:35.03 | romainguy | I think it was IL2 Sturmovik that had a physics engine written in Java |
| 00:35.13 | tmccrary | From a graphics standpoint, the language performance doesn't even matter today, at least with hardware accelerated paths |
| 00:35.29 | Cedric_ | A JIT is not that much of a clearcut improvement on a mobile device |
| 00:35.36 | tmccrary | You typically try to keep most calls to the graphics api to a minimum and batch data wherever possible |
| 00:35.37 | Cedric_ | still worth considering though |
| 00:35.44 | romainguy | a generational GC would be a much better improvement |
| 00:35.59 | *** join/#android andyross (n=andy@static-71-245-107-194.ptldor.fios.verizon.net) |
| 00:37.06 | andatche | is there any way to empty the trash, thus removing deleted messages in the mail client? |
| 00:38.55 | *** join/#android Korzun (n=akorzun@pool-96-224-100-54.nycmny.east.verizon.net) |
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| 00:44.06 | Korzun | still no 3g in nyc |
| 00:44.08 | Korzun | JESUS |
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| 00:45.07 | Ramblurr | is it possible to debug services in remote sessions? |
| 00:45.13 | Ramblurr | err |
| 00:45.28 | elad1 | wow no 3g in nyc? |
| 00:45.29 | *** join/#android RyeBrye (n=ryebrye@160.7.248.108) |
| 00:45.35 | Ramblurr | is it possible to debug a remote service (i.e., a an out of process service)? |
| 00:45.36 | elad1 | thats hard to believe |
| 00:47.01 | michaelnovakjr__ | elad1: i have 3G in New York |
| 00:47.11 | *** join/#android kslater (n=kslater@206.193.247.78.nauticom.net) |
| 00:51.06 | Korzun | no you don't |
| 00:51.08 | Korzun | you have edge |
| 00:51.10 | Korzun | there is outage. |
| 00:51.46 | wastrel | i'm on edge |
| 00:51.57 | wastrel | but it's ok i'm at home so actually i'm on wifi |
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| 01:24.54 | michaelnovakjr__ | Korzun: maybe for you |
| 01:24.59 | michaelnovakjr__ | i have the 3G icon |
| 01:26.34 | andatche | is there no way to actually delete mail from trash in the mail app? |
| 01:35.01 | *** join/#android coding1 (n=steelgun@0x63.nat.tushino.com) |
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| 01:40.41 | Damm | andatche, the Email application doesn't delete mail for IMAP for me. |
| 01:40.44 | Damm | so I switched to K9 |
| 01:41.09 | andatche | yeah, I may have to do the same |
| 01:41.14 | andatche | seems a bit silly that it doesn't |
| 01:43.39 | *** join/#android coding (n=steelgun@0x63.nat.tushino.com) |
| 01:45.03 | Damm | that's what you get for running a beta phone |
| 01:45.05 | Damm | :) |
| 01:45.21 | Damm | is still waiting for rc29 |
| 01:45.27 | Damm | or whatever... (is on rc19) |
| 01:46.01 | andatche | I'm on TC5 - RC7 apparently |
| 01:46.04 | andatche | (in the uk) |
| 01:46.05 | zhobbs | Damm: you can do it manually |
| 01:46.10 | Damm | zhobbs, how? |
| 01:46.25 | zhobbs | http://www.android-unleashed.com/2008/10/howto-manual-ota-update-instructions.html |
| 01:46.31 | romainguy | andatche: yes the UK have TC5 |
| 01:46.34 | *** join/#android galtoid (n=galtoid@cpe-76-166-144-128.socal.res.rr.com) |
| 01:46.49 | andatche | using any cut you can create a shortcut to a page with an update button on it |
| 01:47.26 | romainguy | Damm: the update will come |
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| 01:47.34 | andatche | romainguy: that newer than RC29? |
| 01:47.51 | romainguy | it's another branch |
| 01:48.12 | Damm | romainguy, updating now. |
| 01:48.14 | Damm | :) |
| 01:48.16 | romainguy | so you're TC5 RC7 is the equivalent of TC4 RC29 or 28 |
| 01:48.28 | romainguy | with some adjustments for the UK |
| 01:48.37 | andatche | oh, ok. any major differences between the branches? |
| 01:48.51 | romainguy | just stuff required for UK launch |
| 01:48.58 | zhobbs | no amazon |
| 01:48.59 | romainguy | which are probably very minimal |
| 01:53.43 | Korzun | how can i check for updates for market apps |
| 01:54.27 | zhobbs | Korzun: there's no built in way to do that :( |
| 01:54.51 | Cedric_ | Korzun: yeah can't do that right now, but we're working on it |
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| 01:55.21 | Korzun | thanks |
| 01:58.23 | Damm | just replace the app |
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| 01:58.40 | Damm | when K-9 gets updated, go to the market, and click install, and it'll overwrite the old version |
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| 02:07.41 | elad1 | romain: around? |
| 02:07.50 | *** part/#android Dougie187 (n=doug@68.35.245.156) |
| 02:09.55 | elad1 | man android is so lovely |
| 02:09.56 | michaelnovakjr__ | Damm, does that replace the accounts too? |
| 02:10.17 | *** join/#android philsw__ (n=phil@124-168-25-150.dyn.iinet.net.au) |
| 02:10.20 | elad1 | i must get the android tattooed on me |
| 02:11.20 | Damm | michaelnovakjr__, ? accounts? |
| 02:11.31 | michaelnovakjr__ | for k-9 |
| 02:11.32 | Damm | michaelnovakjr__, you need to delete your regular Email account before you add it in K-9 |
| 02:11.38 | Damm | oh replacing it keeps your stuff |
| 02:11.43 | michaelnovakjr__ | nice |
| 02:11.47 | Damm | I reinstalled K-9 and lost nothing. |
| 02:12.08 | michaelnovakjr__ | awesome, it would kinda suck if you had to enter your account each time you update it |
| 02:12.23 | Damm | it sucked the first time. |
| 02:12.33 | Damm | I had Email crash on me because my SMTP server was having issues |
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| 02:13.27 | michaelnovakjr__ | i haven't messed with Email, i have my google apps email through the gmail app |
| 02:13.37 | wastrel | i had the home app crash |
| 02:13.41 | wastrel | also the browser |
| 02:13.54 | Damm | I use Email because suprise... I have an IMAP account elsewhere that I want my email on |
| 02:14.02 | Damm | and I refuse to have Google be my only email client. |
| 02:14.26 | Damm | K-9 is just a minor upgrade to Email, if you use Gmail... stick to the built in crud |
| 02:14.28 | elad1 | wastrel: if you exit out of a browser close quickly, you can crash it everytime.. |
| 02:14.39 | elad1 | also some bugs with taskmanager and home app sometimes |
| 02:15.17 | Damm | i'm looking for an app to close stuff that refuses to close.. |
| 02:15.19 | Damm | heh |
| 02:16.52 | d0nets | arent we all |
| 02:17.33 | Damm | as long as it doesn't cost 19.99 I think i'll be happy. |
| 02:18.08 | DarkriftX | i know its been asked but my xchat has a small buffer. If i want to get started (learning to) write stuff for android, what do i need to setup. I am on kubuntu 7.10 if that matters |
| 02:18.17 | DarkriftX | do I just need the sdk? |
| 02:19.17 | BHSPitLappy | that, and a latest version of Eclipse from their site |
| 02:19.19 | michaelnovakjr__ | DarkriftX: http://code.google.com/android |
| 02:19.29 | michaelnovakjr__ | that and Java 1.5 is a good idea |
| 02:19.39 | BHSPitLappy | the Eclipse in the repos isn't new enough |
| 02:19.42 | DarkriftX | wow, that site has changed a lot this week |
| 02:19.47 | wastrel | do ou know java? |
| 02:19.51 | DarkriftX | nope |
| 02:19.58 | DarkriftX | but i learn fast ;) |
| 02:21.37 | michaelnovakjr__ | Eclipse in the repo sucks |
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| 02:28.06 | tweakt | do yourself a favor and go get 3.4 from eclipse.org ;-) |
| 02:28.25 | tweakt | ("Ganymede") |
| 02:29.17 | zhobbs | yeah, ganymede is nice |
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| 02:30.27 | michaelnovakjr__ | yea |
| 02:30.33 | michaelnovakjr__ | big improvement |
| 02:30.47 | languish | damn, still only have edge, no 3g |
| 02:31.12 | DarkriftX | ok, eclipse installed and androidized |
| 02:31.14 | andatche | trying to install the eclipse plugin is causing me problems |
| 02:31.27 | andatche | when trying to add the repo I just get an error saying no repo exists at ..... |
| 02:31.38 | *** join/#android coding1 (n=steelgun@0x63.nat.tushino.com) |
| 02:31.45 | andatche | this is on 3.4 EE |
| 02:31.45 | DarkriftX | you on eclipse 3.3 or 3.4? |
| 02:31.54 | DarkriftX | its "add site" i thought |
| 02:32.39 | andatche | yeah |
| 02:32.56 | andatche | add site, then I enter the url (https://dl-ssl.google.com/android/eclipse/) and get an error |
| 02:33.17 | DarkriftX | try removing the s on https |
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| 02:34.18 | andatche | nope, still the same, something is complaining about unconnected sockets not implemented |
| 02:34.20 | BHSPitLappy | andatche, yeah, make it http |
| 02:34.40 | BHSPitLappy | uhh |
| 02:34.48 | BHSPitLappy | try again and make sure it's correct? |
| 02:35.23 | andatche | ok, seems happy now |
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| 02:38.57 | coding | . |
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| 02:40.45 | Damm | retarded, can't get the update to work. |
| 02:40.52 | Damm | can't mount /dev/block/mmcblk0p1 |
| 02:40.55 | Damm | no such file or directory |
| 02:41.04 | *** join/#android crib- (n=chris@port-92-193-145-121.dynamic.qsc.de) |
| 02:41.35 | DarkriftX | try a non factory sd card |
| 02:41.48 | Damm | DarkriftX, I kinda figured that was part of the problem. |
| 02:41.59 | DarkriftX | http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=441589 |
| 02:42.06 | DarkriftX | not proven yet, but seems to be the issue for a lot of ppl |
| 02:42.55 | Damm | i'll just dd it, save it... then properly fdisk it |
| 02:42.58 | Damm | and see if that helps |
| 02:44.04 | DarkriftX | prob wont, some of the ppl with problems seemed like knowledgeable linux users and im sure they would have tried that |
| 02:44.10 | DarkriftX | but please let me know if it does |
| 02:44.19 | Damm | nothing to loose as i'm making a backup |
| 02:44.58 | *** join/#android Laz (n=Laz1@28.184.119.70.cfl.res.rr.com) |
| 02:45.41 | *** join/#android galtoid (n=galtoid@cpe-76-166-144-128.socal.res.rr.com) |
| 02:45.43 | meoblast001 | anyone giveing away free g1s? |
| 02:45.49 | meoblast001 | lol |
| 02:46.09 | zhobbs | in the UK they are supposedly |
| 02:46.14 | zhobbs | and still no one got one |
| 02:46.43 | meoblast001 | lol |
| 02:46.47 | meoblast001 | i have sprint |
| 02:46.54 | meoblast001 | but my mom said shes sick of sprint |
| 02:47.04 | meoblast001 | so we're going to AT&T or T-Mobile |
| 02:47.11 | meoblast001 | whichever one will give us the best no-contract deal |
| 02:47.22 | andatche | I got my G1 free on tmobile in the UK |
| 02:48.20 | Damm | oh wow... the G1 is slow for USB access |
| 02:48.29 | Damm | makes me wish I had a Micro SD card reader. |
| 02:49.01 | Damm | i'll just steal my woman's memory card. |
| 02:50.14 | DarkriftX | lol |
| 02:50.36 | Damm | took 5minutes to copy 124meg |
| 02:50.38 | Damm | via dd... |
| 02:53.44 | zhobbs | Damm: that seems slow to me... |
| 02:55.52 | Damm | zhobbs, you think? |
| 02:55.53 | Damm | lol |
| 02:56.03 | DarkriftX | w00t, im an android programmer now! i just copied and pasted my hello world and ran it. lookout world, here comes Goodbye World :S |
| 02:56.05 | Damm | hrm, maybe my system |
| 02:56.07 | zhobbs | hehe, I mean, seems slower than I've experienced |
| 02:56.10 | DarkriftX | disables sarcasm now |
| 02:57.04 | zhobbs | coding on a saturday night....makes me wish I didn't procrastinate all week... |
| 02:57.30 | Damm | meh |
| 02:57.42 | Damm | so i'm going to just hit the power on this box as it's decided to have a fit me doing this |
| 02:59.04 | *** join/#android cfreak200 (n=cfreak20@p4FDB7337.dip.t-dialin.net) |
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| 03:04.49 | Damm | that's exactly it |
| 03:04.55 | Damm | it's the partiton table on the factory disks |
| 03:05.14 | Damm | my woman's memory card has 1 partiton while the factory disk was formatted with no actual partitons |
| 03:05.24 | Damm | (e.g. mount /dev/sdb /mnt) = factory |
| 03:05.28 | Damm | working one is /dev/sdb1 /mnt |
| 03:06.39 | Damm | i don't know if i can modify the partiton table though the phone, and I have no clue where my microsd to sd adapter is. |
| 03:07.21 | Damm | but i'll try once it's updated :) |
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| 03:13.01 | tweakt | where do I put audio files to have them as resources in my project? |
| 03:13.39 | tweakt | 'drawable' ? seems wierd... |
| 03:14.16 | zhobbs | res/raw maybe? |
| 03:15.43 | DarkriftX | good to hear damn |
| 03:15.56 | DarkriftX | also from what ive heard, RC29 fixes that problem so it wouldnt matter from now on anyways |
| 03:16.39 | Damm | DarkriftX, now i can't seem to get it to mount on my mac. |
| 03:16.40 | Damm | odd |
| 03:18.48 | Damm | ah no medium found |
| 03:18.51 | Damm | great |
| 03:19.07 | zhobbs | you're done for |
| 03:19.26 | Damm | zhobbs, on the memory card? |
| 03:19.30 | Damm | it's just time to reformat it prolly |
| 03:20.01 | Damm | oh i see, weird... first it comes as sdb1, then disconnects and comes back as sdb |
| 03:20.05 | Damm | with no medium found |
| 03:21.00 | DarkriftX | thats how sd cards always show on my system |
| 03:21.08 | DarkriftX | sda, sdb, sdc |
| 03:21.22 | DarkriftX | its like even thogh ejected its still registered and the next letter gets assigned |
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| 03:22.00 | Damm | DarkriftX, yep. |
| 03:22.05 | Damm | and my mac won't see it |
| 03:22.08 | Damm | i'm sure it's similar |
| 03:22.33 | Damm | but the phone clearly see's it and uses it. |
| 03:22.38 | Damm | wishes it had OBEX already. |
| 03:22.48 | DarkriftX | thats how it was before, the phone could read it but the bootloader couldnt |
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| 03:24.22 | Damm | well I now have a SD card I can use for the next update. |
| 03:24.26 | weilawei | okay so a common method of exchanging phones is for one guy to call another, but not pick up. you go to the missed call and save the # |
| 03:24.29 | weilawei | how do i do that on my g1? |
| 03:24.31 | weilawei | i cant seem to find an option for it |
| 03:24.46 | Damm | oh dur |
| 03:24.50 | Damm | select the notification |
| 03:24.55 | Damm | and it gives you an option of mount and do not mount |
| 03:24.56 | weilawei | k |
| 03:25.29 | weilawei | is there a firmware past 1.0 now? |
| 03:25.38 | weilawei | has not seen an update type of thingie |
| 03:25.55 | Damm | DarkriftX, seems to be using a standard partiton table.... (non guid/gpt) |
| 03:26.04 | andyross | weilawei: Not sure, but I'm pretty sure that version number refers to the boot firmware, which isn't likely to change, ever. |
| 03:26.31 | weilawei | ah |
| 03:26.43 | weilawei | i hope it does so we get full on bluetooth profiles |
| 03:26.51 | weilawei | currently bluetooth is well nigh useless on th g1 |
| 03:26.55 | andyross | There was an update already pushed to the device software, which is now current at R29 |
| 03:27.25 | DarkriftX | Damm, is your card a sandisk? |
| 03:27.41 | weilawei | andyross: uh... firmware, baseband, kernek, or build? xD |
| 03:27.45 | weilawei | *kernel |
| 03:27.59 | weilawei | so many versions, so little time |
| 03:28.00 | Damm | DarkriftX, no |
| 03:28.07 | DarkriftX | hrmmm |
| 03:28.12 | Damm | transcend afaik |
| 03:28.17 | DarkriftX | someone else posted they got a sandisk 1g with their g1 |
| 03:28.29 | DarkriftX | anything identifiable on the card itself? |
| 03:28.41 | andyross | "baseband" is the goofball name of the secondary CPU that manages the phone itself. We can't touch that, and don't really care about what software version it's running as long as it isn't buggy. The kernel/build numbers will go together in a single release. |
| 03:28.44 | DarkriftX | sanDisk 1gb 082280342OC2EJ <-- this guy said his worked |
| 03:29.12 | weilawei | mine is sandisk 1g |
| 03:29.21 | weilawei | just got my g1 this week |
| 03:29.24 | DarkriftX | did the manual update work for you? |
| 03:29.29 | DarkriftX | or did you wait for the OTA |
| 03:29.31 | weilawei | manual update? |
| 03:29.43 | weilawei | i havent seen anything about updates |
| 03:29.45 | DarkriftX | yeah, manually forcing the OTA update |
| 03:29.46 | weilawei | how do i do it? |
| 03:30.01 | DarkriftX | http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=441282 |
| 03:30.23 | DarkriftX | you arent in the uk are you? |
| 03:30.28 | DarkriftX | not sure if it works on uk g1's |
| 03:31.33 | weilawei | does the update fix anything i need? |
| 03:31.35 | weilawei | im in the US |
| 03:31.39 | weilawei | cause itworks fine right now |
| 03:31.41 | DarkriftX | minor bugs |
| 03:31.46 | weilawei | and i dont want to mess with it since im taking a trip tomorrow |
| 03:31.49 | DarkriftX | heh |
| 03:32.02 | DarkriftX | fair enough, you will get it soon anyways |
| 03:32.11 | DarkriftX | this is just for ppl that do not want to wait for it |
| 03:32.19 | weilawei | yeah but im definitely going to play with this stuff sooner than later |
| 03:32.22 | Damm | now to install a mkfs.vfat |
| 03:32.35 | weilawei | ive got the adroid source and ive been reading through it, mostly the binder/servicemanager code |
| 03:32.41 | weilawei | i want to run apps off the SD card |
| 03:32.43 | weilawei | so im working on that |
| 03:33.03 | Damm | weilawei, does android currently let you run them off the SD card? |
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| 03:34.59 | Damm | DarkriftX, yes you can fdisk through the phone. |
| 03:35.13 | Damm | so it's totally possible to just dd if=/dev/zero of=/dev/sdb bs=512 count=4 |
| 03:35.26 | Damm | then fdisk it, create a regular partiton table, then mkfs.vfat it, and put update.zip on it |
| 03:35.43 | Damm | waves to DannyB. |
| 03:38.25 | DarkriftX | ok, i got my hello android app working. I do not know java but ive done a little bit of php/perl and some scripting. what would be the best thing for me to jump into? (i learn better editing and tweaking stuff than i do from reading). |
| 03:38.57 | DarkriftX | are there any other example programs or walkthroughs i would want to look at? |
| 03:39.04 | zhobbs | DarkriftX: http://code.google.com/android/intro/tutorial.html |
| 03:39.21 | DarkriftX | ahh, thx |
| 03:40.07 | Damm | so thank you all for helping me update and do a little fun |
| 03:40.15 | DarkriftX | heh, enjoy |
| 03:40.39 | DarkriftX | if you find out anymore about brand/serial on the card, please post here: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=441589 |
| 03:43.45 | Korzun | tmobile where is my 3g |
| 03:44.03 | Korzun | sick of outages |
| 03:44.15 | elad | <PROTECTED> |
| 03:44.23 | elad | having trouble with goog maps |
| 03:44.30 | umdk1d3 | hmm is there a good way of "tinting" a textview? |
| 03:44.32 | Damm | wow perfect signal |
| 03:44.34 | Damm | -51 dbm |
| 03:44.57 | zhobbs | umdk1d3: change textview font to be darker? |
| 03:45.00 | umdk1d3 | Korzun: have you called tmobile customer service? |
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| 03:45.12 | umdk1d3 | zhobbs: well, more like making the background tinted a specific color, like greenish |
| 03:45.16 | Korzun | umdk1d3, yeah.. they have recording saying its an outage |
| 03:45.19 | Korzun | every weekend |
| 03:45.22 | Korzun | retarded. |
| 03:45.24 | umdk1d3 | Korzun: ouch thats a bummer :/ |
| 03:45.35 | elad | Damm: -81 here |
| 03:45.40 | mimor | Is there a way to put android on a SonyEricson P910i ? |
| 03:45.50 | mimor | I saw some pictures of the p990i running it :) |
| 03:45.59 | gdsx | Damm: -51 is pretty sweet |
| 03:46.08 | Korzun | :/ |
| 03:46.37 | umdk1d3 | -63 dbm here ^.^ |
| 03:46.43 | elad | i go and work out and because everyone is closed, i had to get a sonic burger.......... |
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| 03:47.14 | umdk1d3 | -63 on a gprs network doesnt count tho ;) |
| 03:47.49 | umdk1d3 | ooh now i have -101 dbm on an edge tower lol |
| 03:49.34 | zhobbs | anyone have any ideas how to setup a quick launch shortcut to the wifi settings? search + w to pull up wifi settings would be nice :) |
| 03:49.43 | elad | the closer to 0 is better or? |
| 03:49.47 | michaelnovakjr__ | hm, trying to add my device to the computer and the device doesn't show up in the list |
| 03:49.58 | Damm | -51 is just about perfect |
| 03:50.01 | gdsx | elad: more-positive is better |
| 03:50.11 | Damm | -101 is 2 bars |
| 03:50.34 | gdsx | elad: dBm actually stands for dBmW, "decibel milliwatts" |
| 03:51.02 | gdsx | elad: so it's a log scale of power (hence why it's negative) |
| 03:51.29 | gdsx | well... not power, but a power ratio |
| 03:51.29 | jasta | hehe |
| 03:51.44 | jasta | 9pm the next night and i'm finally feeling recovered from my party last night :) |
| 03:51.50 | gdsx | Damm: 2 bars because it's got two "1"s in it? :o) |
| 03:52.25 | wastrel | zhobbs: anycut or there's another app on the marketplace now that would work |
| 03:53.02 | wastrel | toggle settings |
| 03:53.05 | zhobbs | wastrel: I couldn't figure out how to do it with anycut? I see how to add shortcuts to your home screen, but not the quick launch |
| 03:53.37 | Damm | gdsx, no, -101 is 2-3 bars |
| 03:53.39 | Damm | typically 2 |
| 03:53.50 | wastrel | ok what's the quick launch :] |
| 03:54.19 | zhobbs | wastrel: settings -> applications -> quick launch |
| 03:54.28 | zhobbs | search + b = browser, search + m = maps, etc |
| 03:54.50 | wastrel | oic |
| 03:56.10 | zhobbs | yeah, wanted to make search + w wifi |
| 03:57.10 | Damm | zhobbs, btw, I wasn't hosed. |
| 03:57.13 | Damm | :) |
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| 04:00.00 | DannyB | Damm: how are you |
| 04:00.55 | Korzun | Guys I really need to transfer MMS picture i recieved, someone please help me it's picture of my nephew |
| 04:00.56 | Korzun | :\ |
| 04:01.02 | Korzun | I can't save it to phone or e-mail it |
| 04:01.02 | elad | its possbile to modify system settings via another app, correct? |
| 04:01.17 | elad | krozun, long press or menu it? |
| 04:01.27 | elad | korzun* |
| 04:01.35 | Korzun | Tried |
| 04:01.37 | Korzun | No luck |
| 04:01.42 | elad | hrm |
| 04:02.18 | Damm | DannyB, doing much better now that I updated to rc29, got my card fixed :) |
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| 04:07.31 | Korzun | You guys updating android os? |
| 04:07.38 | Korzun | Can I read up on procedure? |
| 04:12.08 | romainguy_ | just wait |
| 04:12.15 | romainguy_ | you'll get an update from T-Mobile automatically |
| 04:12.50 | michaelnovakjr__ | does the music player offer any intents to other apps? where can i see that info |
| 04:12.53 | Korzun | romainguy_, I need to save picture from MMS :( |
| 04:13.04 | elad | DarkriftX: heh |
| 04:13.09 | DarkriftX | ? |
| 04:13.18 | *** part/#android g0bl1n (n=_g0bl1n_@89.214.135.144) |
| 04:13.57 | elad | <DarkriftX> w00t, im an android programmer |
| 04:14.11 | elad | was in backlog thinking that was current heh |
| 04:14.21 | DarkriftX | lol, couldnt resist |
| 04:14.45 | DarkriftX | i went 1337 with it and made it say "Goodbye World", thats some skillz there |
| 04:26.17 | muthu | yo mo jo |
| 04:26.24 | muthu | slideme is hiring.. cool |
| 04:27.36 | *** join/#android SR71-Blackbird (n=nirvana@unaffiliated/sr71-blackbird) |
| 04:27.46 | zhobbs | muthu: shane is hiring developers? |
| 04:28.38 | muthu | zhobbs: yeah |
| 04:28.43 | muthu | equity stake |
| 04:29.09 | muthu | slideme will be a viable alternate to market |
| 04:29.17 | *** join/#android RyeBrye (n=ryebrye@160.7.248.108) |
| 04:29.27 | michaelnovakjr__ | eh, wouldn't you only want the one Market? |
| 04:29.34 | michaelnovakjr__ | its nice to have one place to look |
| 04:29.38 | *** part/#android RyeBrye (n=ryebrye@160.7.248.108) |
| 04:29.41 | muthu | choice is good |
| 04:29.57 | wastrel | i'm pro choice |
| 04:29.58 | michaelnovakjr__ | its annoying to have to download slideme because a developer only put it there |
| 04:30.36 | muthu | i like the way the slideme guys have approached this |
| 04:31.16 | *** join/#android shackan (n=frob@host164-93-dynamic.59-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) |
| 04:31.18 | muthu | only one market will take the consumers for a ride |
| 04:31.24 | michaelnovakjr__ | why? |
| 04:31.24 | umdk1d3 | okay seriously wtf, people are using market comments to argue about political stuff |
| 04:31.39 | muthu | lol |
| 04:31.43 | michaelnovakjr__ | muthu, how does it take them for a ride? |
| 04:31.46 | umdk1d3 | "vote mccain and not the antiamerican unexperienced obama" |
| 04:31.55 | muthu | michaelnovakjr__: isn't it what called monopoly? |
| 04:32.01 | muthu | and isn't that bad for consumers? |
| 04:32.02 | Cedric_ | umdk1d3: what application has this comment? I'll have it removed |
| 04:32.07 | umdk1d3 | "vote obama 08 and yes on #2 for all us potheads thank you" lol :P |
| 04:32.14 | geist | no dont kill the application! |
| 04:32.18 | Cedric_ | No |
| 04:32.18 | geist | it didn't mean it |
| 04:32.22 | Cedric_ | I want to have the comment removed |
| 04:32.25 | geist | the comments are unreleated! |
| 04:33.27 | *** join/#android andyross (n=andy@static-71-245-107-194.ptldor.fios.verizon.net) |
| 04:33.48 | michaelnovakjr__ | muthu, what do you mean by taken for a ride? |
| 04:33.52 | michaelnovakjr__ | i dont' follow |
| 04:34.15 | muthu | michaelnovakjr__: for some reason, the market banned you.. for ex |
| 04:34.21 | muthu | its good to have some alternates |
| 04:34.24 | michaelnovakjr__ | ? |
| 04:34.27 | michaelnovakjr__ | banned? |
| 04:34.31 | michaelnovakjr__ | who the developer? |
| 04:34.41 | muthu | yeah, the developer or the app.. whatever |
| 04:35.00 | michaelnovakjr__ | i don't think you get banned unless there's good reason... |
| 04:35.20 | languish | there could be controversial business reasons that have nothiong to do with the dev |
| 04:35.20 | Cedric_ | muthu still has a point, having alternative markets is good for everyone |
| 04:35.50 | michaelnovakjr__ | i guess, i just don't see myself using slideme |
| 04:35.57 | languish | me either |
| 04:35.59 | michaelnovakjr__ | when there's already a market provided |
| 04:36.08 | zhobbs | yeah, but the alternative won't be viable until google does start banning/screwing over people |
| 04:36.22 | zhobbs | until then everyone will be fine with the normal Market |
| 04:36.27 | muthu | yep |
| 04:36.39 | michaelnovakjr__ | true, but i don't see it being an issue |
| 04:36.46 | michaelnovakjr__ | Google stated its a security thing |
| 04:36.47 | zhobbs | michaelnovakjr__: I don't think it will be either |
| 04:36.50 | languish | but I do think there should be an single site for listing ALL apps, and mentioning what app store they're in, includng apps that infividual dev's may put on their own sites, and not in a market |
| 04:37.05 | michaelnovakjr__ | if the app got banned im not sure i'd get it somewhere else :) you never know :) |
| 04:37.12 | *** join/#android RyeBrye (n=ryebrye@160.7.248.108) |
| 04:37.36 | michaelnovakjr__ | i have an apk on my site, but it will definitely be in the market too |
| 04:37.45 | michaelnovakjr__ | makes it easy for the use |
| 04:37.47 | michaelnovakjr__ | r |
| 04:38.11 | umdk1d3 | once market takes off, i could see something like a digg-style apps list |
| 04:38.13 | languish | assume some app has a piece of technology in it that google and any google affiliate is banned legally from having anything to do with due to some patent dispute |
| 04:38.16 | umdk1d3 | that maybe even points intents over to market |
| 04:38.24 | languish | but the dev has full rights to distribute it |
| 04:38.28 | umdk1d3 | to really help good apps bubble up to the top over all the noise |
| 04:38.33 | languish | it may get pulled from the market |
| 04:39.03 | languish | does that mean consumers shouldn't have a way to get it through another market? |
| 04:39.16 | muthu | a digg for android apps - great idea |
| 04:39.32 | michaelnovakjr__ | i'm not saying another market is a bad idea, but i just won't use those apps |
| 04:39.38 | languish | lol |
| 04:39.42 | michaelnovakjr__ | i don't need two markets on my phone :) |
| 04:39.56 | michaelnovakjr__ | you don't install two AIM clients right? |
| 04:40.08 | languish | what if you find apps on other markets you'd really enjoy using or need for business? |
| 04:40.29 | michaelnovakjr__ | i'd just write an open source one and stick it on the Google market |
| 04:40.40 | michaelnovakjr__ | or just not use it :) depends on importance |
| 04:40.41 | muthu | alternate market makes sense already.. coz you can list your paid apps |
| 04:40.48 | umdk1d3 | michaelnovakjr__: there is a non-compete in the market upload terms |
| 04:41.01 | michaelnovakjr__ | non-compete in what way? |
| 04:41.05 | umdk1d3 | thats why we dont see slidemes app in googles market |
| 04:41.06 | Cedric_ | I |
| 04:41.08 | michaelnovakjr__ | if its not on the market :) |
| 04:41.26 | Cedric_ | 'm pretty sure that if an app gets banned from Market, it will be for good reasons and you probably won't want to use it at all, but I'm probably biased :) |
| 04:41.38 | michaelnovakjr__ | :) i agree Cedric_ |
| 04:42.09 | michaelnovakjr__ | i wouldn't pay for an app either, so that kills my need for a paid market |
| 04:42.15 | languish | I think both good reasons and business reasons would exist for apps being banned from the market, and the latter, is not necessarily a good reason |
| 04:42.37 | michaelnovakjr__ | which is why there's good and business reasons :) |
| 04:42.44 | michaelnovakjr__ | good distinction |
| 04:42.58 | DarkriftX | umdk1d3, care to give more details on the non-compete |
| 04:43.14 | DarkriftX | meaning a dev cannot put his app on the market and on another type of market? |
| 04:43.16 | languish | and then there's reasons of legality, which may or may not fall under business reasons |
| 04:43.37 | languish | and I don't mean "illegal" or unlawful |
| 04:43.41 | michaelnovakjr__ | yea umdk1d3 what does the non-compete include? |
| 04:43.55 | umdk1d3 | DarkriftX: its meant to prevent adding a second "Market"-like app into Market for distribution |
| 04:44.03 | michaelnovakjr__ | ah |
| 04:44.07 | umdk1d3 | so like adding the SlideMe app to Google's Market |
| 04:44.14 | DarkriftX | oh, i c |
| 04:44.18 | RyeBrye | Ah |
| 04:44.19 | languish | which is a good business reason :) |
| 04:44.22 | michaelnovakjr__ | what about two RSS Readers, a crappy one and a good one ? |
| 04:44.33 | michaelnovakjr__ | does that not apply |
| 04:44.34 | umdk1d3 | you still can totally list your normal app in any number stores/markets you want |
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| 04:44.50 | michaelnovakjr__ | makes sense |
| 04:45.00 | umdk1d3 | ive played with the OI reader, it works--but havent tried the other one |
| 04:45.17 | umdk1d3 | ive been halfway creeped out by the permissions some of these apps ask for, and so i dont install them |
| 04:45.20 | michaelnovakjr__ | i haven't tried either yet |
| 04:45.24 | michaelnovakjr__ | umdk1d3: yea |
| 04:45.29 | umdk1d3 | liek why does weather channel need to send txt msgs? o.o |
| 04:45.42 | michaelnovakjr__ | umdk1d3: i was going to have Glance ask for your location |
| 04:45.44 | michaelnovakjr__ | :) |
| 04:45.51 | umdk1d3 | roooofl :P |
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| 04:46.00 | michaelnovakjr__ | umdk1d3: and to place calls |
| 04:46.21 | michaelnovakjr__ | if you lose a file, you'll be able to find it :) |
| 04:46.26 | umdk1d3 | hmm we need a THERMITE permission to go along with BRICK ;) |
| 04:46.29 | michaelnovakjr__ | thank you GPS |
| 04:46.50 | languish | forget thermite, make it DETONATE |
| 04:47.12 | zhobbs | how do you set the name of the SharedPreferences being editted by a PreferenceActivity? |
| 04:47.19 | RyeBrye | Yes, DETONATE - would go great with the hand-grenade intent of my improved iSafe |
| 04:47.26 | umdk1d3 | thermite is best for hard drive data tho, i think it might be just as good for flash memory |
| 04:47.29 | languish | heh |
| 04:47.47 | languish | thermite's great for whatever material you wanna slag |
| 04:47.48 | umdk1d3 | zhobbs: you can override getSharedPreferences() on the PreferenceActivity |
| 04:47.48 | RyeBrye | Thermite is also good for terminators |
| 04:47.58 | zhobbs | umdk1d3: thanks :) |
| 04:48.07 | languish | RyeBrye, depends on what model :P |
| 04:48.28 | umdk1d3 | zhobbs: you could check the requested name there, or feed it an explicit SharedPreferences there |
| 04:49.07 | RyeBrye | I think someone activated Thermite on my battery |
| 04:49.12 | zhobbs | umdk1d3: actually, don't see getSharedPreferences() |
| 04:49.15 | RyeBrye | little bugger gets warm |
| 04:49.48 | zhobbs | hmm, getPreferencesManager.getSharedPreferencesName() |
| 04:49.55 | umdk1d3 | zhobbs: looks like its inherited down into PreferenceActivity from ContextWrapper |
| 04:50.09 | umdk1d3 | but its there in PreferenceActivity |
| 04:50.13 | zhobbs | oh, ok |
| 04:50.23 | Cedric_ | You can override that name, it just changes the name of the .xml file that gets saved |
| 04:50.50 | umdk1d3 | Cedric_: ah cool :) that deffy makes it easier |
| 04:51.12 | Damm | umdk1d3, use weatherbug... weaterhchannel is nasty/dirty. |
| 04:51.15 | Cedric_ | FYI, you'll find it in somewhere like /data/data/<package>/shared_preferences/Foo.xml |
| 04:51.15 | Damm | weatherchannel* |
| 04:51.21 | Cedric_ | or something like that |
| 04:51.36 | zhobbs | Cedric_: yeah, but I have existing preferences, but don't use PreferenceActivity...so on the next upgrade I'd rather have the new PreferenceActivity edit the existing preference file |
| 04:51.40 | Damm | quite frankly I find weatherchannel and accuweather to be a waste of an install. |
| 04:51.54 | umdk1d3 | Damm: why does weatherbug need my contact information tho? o.o |
| 04:52.06 | umdk1d3 | creeped out |
| 04:52.11 | zhobbs | weather channel asks for every permissions ever invented |
| 04:52.13 | languish | there's some warning about weatherbug in various forums |
| 04:52.15 | Cedric_ | zhobbs: makes sense. You could also transparently upgrade the old name to a newone |
| 04:52.28 | zhobbs | Cedric_: yeah, considering that also... |
| 04:52.30 | Damm | umdk1d3, to find out where you live. |
| 04:52.33 | Cedric_ | umdk1d3: sometimes, apps require the CONTACTS preference when all they need is to email or SMS |
| 04:52.36 | Damm | umdk1d3, that's less annoying then the rest. |
| 04:52.39 | languish | i haven't bothered to read about it though as I don't intend to use weatherbug |
| 04:52.46 | umdk1d3 | sigh there are /intents/ for sending email tho that dont need all that lol |
| 04:52.49 | Damm | umdk1d3, and you can send a snapshot of it. |
| 04:52.57 | Damm | via sms/email |
| 04:53.19 | Cedric_ | umdk1d3: I know, but it's a mistake that's easy to make it (and I made it myself :) ) |
| 04:54.00 | Damm | umdk1d3, that and atleast weatherbug does what it should and has a nice overlay for radar. |
| 04:54.21 | DarkriftX | well, i think multiple markets are a good thing, but i dont see the second ones becoming very popular for the first 6-12 months |
| 04:54.30 | umdk1d3 | speaking of asking for too many intents, does "fine" resolution location inherit the "course" resolution as well? im asking for both permissions right now to be sure |
| 04:54.33 | DarkriftX | ppl need time to build preferences and find reasons to use the others |
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| 04:56.38 | zhobbs | umdk1d3, Cedric_ : looks like you can just getPreferenceManager().setSharedPreferencesName(PREFS_NAME); in the PreferenceActivity's onCreate() |
| 04:56.53 | umdk1d3 | ah cool |
| 04:56.57 | malaclyps | hmm so i've created a custom view which inherits from SurfaceView, but the onDraw method isn't being called on startup in the emulator |
| 04:57.03 | malaclyps | do I need to dirty it or something? |
| 04:57.18 | malaclyps | it seems to be being called in Eclipse's layout manager ok |
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| 04:58.27 | malaclyps | hmm, interesting, maybe I just need to be using View |
| 04:58.57 | zhobbs | malaclyps: not sure that's how you're supposed to work with a Surface...noticed in LunarLander they don't use onDraw |
| 04:59.27 | mleste1 | how do u install an app on a real android phone as opposed to just the emulator |
| 04:59.28 | malaclyps | zhobbs: right -- maybe i'm overcomplicating it by using surfaceview. It's odd that it works in the layout manager though. |
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| 05:00.17 | zhobbs | malaclyps: with SurfaceView you can edit the Surface's canvas from any thread |
| 05:00.44 | zhobbs | malaclyps: with View you just call invalidate and do everything in onDraw() in the UI thread |
| 05:00.47 | romainguy_ | malaclyps: if you override SurfaceView, you're not supposed to override onDraw |
| 05:00.54 | romainguy_ | just use a normal View |
| 05:01.58 | zhobbs | mleste1: you install an app on the phone the same as on an emulator |
| 05:02.10 | zhobbs | "adb install <apk>" |
| 05:02.18 | mleste1 | ok cool |
| 05:02.31 | mleste1 | and if the emulator isn't running then it will default to the device |
| 05:02.39 | zhobbs | mleste1: yeah |
| 05:02.49 | mleste1 | ok sounds good to me :) |
| 05:03.07 | michaelnovakjr__ | zhobbs: don't you have to specify -d for device? |
| 05:03.09 | zhobbs | mleste1: or you can use the -d flag to send to the device if the emulator is running |
| 05:03.23 | zhobbs | michaelnovakjr__: only if the emulator is running |
| 05:03.34 | michaelnovakjr__ | zhobbs: don't you have to specify -d for device? |
| 05:03.37 | michaelnovakjr__ | ah |
| 05:03.45 | michaelnovakjr__ | forgot i had an emulator running |
| 05:03.48 | mleste1 | ok gotcha |
| 05:04.10 | RyeBrye | umdk1d3 - you use myth too? |
| 05:04.58 | jsherman | where is the debug.keystore for the git release? |
| 05:05.11 | jsherman | it doesn't look like one is made in ~/.android |
| 05:05.24 | romainguy_ | what keystore? |
| 05:05.47 | RyeBrye | the release keystore... I lost my copy - someone want to send it to me? |
| 05:05.54 | jsherman | the dev docs say that in the SDK, you are automatically given a default debug keystore |
| 05:06.12 | jsherman | and it is written to ~/.android/debug.keystore |
| 05:06.24 | zhobbs | RyeBrye: maybe they'll fall for it next time :) |
| 05:06.37 | RyeBrye | I limit it to once a day, but maybe... just maybe... ;) |
| 05:06.49 | romainguy_ | jsherman: that should be done by the Eclipse plugin |
| 05:06.51 | romainguy_ | not by the SDK |
| 05:06.55 | jsherman | oh |
| 05:06.58 | romainguy_ | even less by the git tree |
| 05:06.58 | jsherman | im not using eclipse |
| 05:07.19 | jsherman | I see |
| 05:07.52 | jsherman | er is the intent for the git tree to replace the SDK |
| 05:08.03 | jsherman | and so people who are just writing apps will use that |
| 05:08.04 | zhobbs | jsherman: http://code.google.com/android/devel/sign-publish.html |
| 05:08.46 | jsherman | or is the intent to have the git tree be for those who want to make changes to the core OS, and google will release a separate (much smaller, maybe even binary-only) SDK for those who only want to develop apps |
| 05:09.06 | jsherman | zhobbs, yeah, that applies to the SDK release, I'm using the git tree |
| 05:09.13 | romainguy_ | er no |
| 05:09.16 | romainguy_ | the SDK is the SDK |
| 05:09.22 | romainguy_ | the git tree is the open source source tree |
| 05:09.31 | romainguy_ | the SDK will remain what it is |
| 05:09.34 | romainguy_ | it's for apps developers |
| 05:09.53 | swetland | the SDK is buildable from the git tree and yes will remain as a piece that is available for standalone install for apps developers |
| 05:10.02 | jsherman | ah ok |
| 05:11.00 | DarkriftX | hey, its that impostor swetland again! |
| 05:11.21 | swetland | I believe the 1.0rX SDK is not currently 1:1 with what you'd generate from the 1.0 git tree due to some variation between them (there was a lot of shuffling and cleanup for the open source effort), but they should be converging (at some point the standard core sdk will be 1:1 with make sdk from the standard core git tree) |
| 05:11.30 | swetland | dark: curses, foiled again! |
| 05:11.42 | jsherman | ok I get it |
| 05:12.04 | jsherman | hmm |
| 05:12.13 | jsherman | so for the maps key signing |
| 05:12.32 | jsherman | if the maps app is using google's own key |
| 05:12.39 | jsherman | does it also require the base framework be signed by google? |
| 05:16.33 | romainguy_ | uh? |
| 05:16.36 | gdsx | swetland: so, I'm sure there'll be another opportunity. I wanted to mess with the Segway because I was wearing my "I wanna roll with the gangstas, but I'm too white and nerdy" shirt and wearing my noogler cap |
| 05:16.48 | gdsx | swetland: would make for an awesome photo :o) |
| 05:18.00 | jsherman | oh hey i should have run showcommands it's in build/target/product/security/testkey.x509.pem |
| 05:18.39 | mleste1 | do you need a driver to connect a g1 to adb |
| 05:18.48 | gdsx | mleste1: what OS? |
| 05:18.48 | romainguy_ | on Windwos yes |
| 05:19.23 | michaelnovakjr__ | mleste1: http://code.google.com/android/intro/develop-and-debug.html#developingondevicehardware |
| 05:21.05 | mleste1 | thanks |
| 05:22.01 | michaelnovakjr__ | np |
| 05:23.09 | DarkriftX | i just had one of those really funny ideas that you wont ever do anything with, but its almost good enough to try |
| 05:23.21 | swetland | gsdx: ahahah |
| 05:23.39 | DarkriftX | Mandroid.com, Pr0n for your Android device! |
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| 05:24.08 | swetland | mleste1: you only need a device driver on win32. linux and osx thankfully have some sane apis for usb access from userspace |
| 05:27.11 | zhobbs | DarkriftX: haha, I saw someone say that TuneWiki should include pr0n in its video search in the Market comments |
| 05:27.30 | DarkriftX | lol |
| 05:28.32 | zhobbs | wonder if a porn app would get banned from the Market |
| 05:28.37 | RyeBrye | Mandroid would be male porn (or gay porn)? |
| 05:28.54 | zhobbs | RyeBrye: that's what it sounds like |
| 05:29.03 | RyeBrye | Shedroid would be a more logical name for female robot porn |
| 05:29.18 | mleste1 | hey how do u create a widget like that retard analog clock |
| 05:29.19 | BHSPitLappy | I'm perfectly fine with robot porn |
| 05:29.47 | BHSPitLappy | The clock is a retard? |
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| 05:30.06 | mleste1 | retarded* |
| 05:30.31 | wastrel | you can remove the clock |
| 05:31.02 | mleste1 | yeah I know |
| 05:31.29 | Damm | was hoping to see more wigets already... |
| 05:31.39 | Damm | clock widgets to be exact |
| 05:32.05 | mleste1 | sorry the use of derogatory terms distracted from my real question |
| 05:32.13 | mleste1 | is how do u develop an app like that |
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| 05:36.26 | scootley | does anyone notice the time in the upper right of the notification bar stuck at 12:59? (east coast US) i wonder if this is a DST bug |
| 05:36.31 | RyeBrye | Yeah... where ARE the widgets? |
| 05:36.37 | RyeBrye | has a widget conspiracy theory |
| 05:37.13 | RyeBrye | There are a handful of weather applications but no weather widgets? |
| 05:37.22 | Damm | RyeBrye, yep... sad huh |
| 05:37.27 | Damm | scootley, tonight is DST isn't it? |
| 05:37.33 | mleste1 | I haven't seen any widgets period |
| 05:37.42 | mleste1 | except for the ones that came preoloded |
| 05:37.42 | scootley | tonight is DST fallback, in ~22 mins |
| 05:37.50 | tomgibara | You can't build widgets yet |
| 05:38.09 | mleste1 | ah not open yet |
| 05:38.12 | tomgibara | Apps can add shortcuts to the desktop though. |
| 05:39.28 | *** part/#android mleste1 (n=mlester@ip70-171-23-245.ga.at.cox.net) |
| 05:39.58 | spikebike | scootley for your timezone |
| 05:40.40 | Damm | scootley, right so expect a little fun, nothing unusual as we gain an hour. |
| 05:40.57 | Damm | my woman is going to try and go to work an hour early... woops |
| 05:41.20 | scootley | in my time zone, US East, fallback has not yet occurred. the time in the upper right of my G1 is stuck at 12:59, while the clock displayed on the "unlock" screen is correct at 1:40 right now |
| 05:42.39 | DarkriftX | wow, xda-devs site go down for anyone else? |
| 05:44.44 | RyeBrye | nope |
| 05:44.52 | DarkriftX | lol scootley thats funny |
| 05:45.25 | DarkriftX | G1Y2K, DST Strikes Back |
| 05:46.21 | jasonparekh_ | zhobbs: re: your earlier question on search+w for wi-fi, in the quick launch activity chooser, you can do Menu > Shortcuts |
| 05:47.48 | zhobbs | jasonparekh_: nice, thanks! |
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| 05:51.01 | romainguy_ | RyeBrye: Yeah... where ARE the widgets? << you can't create widgets |
| 05:51.24 | romainguy_ | Damm was hoping to see more wigets already... << not possible at the moment |
| 05:51.52 | RyeBrye | Ah... my conspiracy theory is validated |
| 05:51.56 | RyeBrye | we're being held back by the man |
| 05:51.59 | RyeBrye | ;) |
| 05:52.07 | romainguy_ | the man being me |
| 05:52.13 | RyeBrye | You da man? |
| 05:52.14 | romainguy_ | me not having time to do it :) |
| 05:52.16 | DJTachyon | so yeah definately some wierd connectivity issues in NYC |
| 05:52.30 | scootley | yeah the upper-right time, the analog clock on the home screen (widget), and the time display on the unlock screen are all different and actually each incorrect right now. very strange |
| 05:52.37 | RyeBrye | less talky - more widget makey |
| 05:52.37 | DJTachyon | banging from 4 bars of 3G to nothing to 4 bars of EDGE to nothing and back again |
| 05:52.37 | RyeBrye | ;) |
| 05:52.47 | romainguy_ | scootley: that is weird indeed |
| 05:52.58 | romainguy_ | especially since the code they use should be pretty much the same |
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| 05:54.27 | tomgibara | Is this just me, or is it extremely difficult to build a library for android? Packaging it as an apk would be much easier, but users can't be expected to install dependencies manually. |
| 05:54.31 | DJTachyon | *yawn* .. okay two night in NYC is enough to make me beat |
| 05:54.33 | DJTachyon | gnight all |
| 05:55.46 | tomgibara | I don't know what the best solution is, but I think the android platform needs significant work in the direction of supporting apk dependencies. |
| 05:56.50 | BruteSource | i hear all this talk of being able to buy a g1 for 400 usd with no contract, but every store tells me its not true? |
| 05:57.14 | romainguy_ | tomgibara: like I said several times, we know and we're planning/working on it |
| 05:57.16 | BruteSource | its evenin tmobile press release |
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| 05:58.02 | BruteSource | it is even in a tmobile press release i mean |
| 05:58.36 | tomgibara | romainguy_: I hadn't seen you make those comments. I think from a 'strategic engineering' perspective (if there is such a thing) it's a very high priority. |
| 05:58.38 | BruteSource | something about having it for 3 months month to month gets it unlocked as well |
| 05:58.55 | Cedric_ | tomgibara: It is high, but there were higher priorities for 1.0 |
| 05:59.25 | tomgibara | Cedric_: Obviously, or it would have been in 1.0 :) |
| 05:59.32 | BruteSource | but no one in the stores will sell it without a contract, so wtf |
| 05:59.32 | romainguy_ | tomgibara: the problem is that there are higher priorities :)) |
| 05:59.40 | romainguy_ | everyone has a different idea of high priorities |
| 05:59.53 | zhobbs | http://benno.id.au/blog/2008/11/02/android-on-neo1973 |
| 06:00.40 | BruteSource | seems like a load of mininformation to me |
| 06:00.51 | BruteSource | misinformation* |
| 06:01.04 | tomgibara | I understand that, I'm just giving feedback. As an external developer, I can state with confidence that the lack of the capability is almost paralyzing for building some functionality. |
| 06:01.19 | zhobbs | BruteSource: I think I've heard of people getting them for $400 |
| 06:02.15 | BruteSource | i have heard lots of people saying they have heard of people, just havent talked to someone who has themselfs |
| 06:02.28 | Cedric_ | tomgibara: Impractical, for sure, but paralyzing? |
| 06:02.39 | BruteSource | and why would 4 different stores in seattle tell me they cant sell them ful retail, and 2 in portland told my friend the same? |
| 06:03.02 | BruteSource | full |
| 06:03.08 | tomgibara | Well, here's a concrete example: I want to improve my hasty little Veecheck library: http://www.tomgibara.com/android/veecheck/ |
| 06:03.30 | meoblast001 | anyone here see the G2? |
| 06:03.42 | BruteSource | when you try to buy it online you get all the way through and it says to call tmobile |
| 06:04.02 | BruteSource | g2 is a myth lol |
| 06:04.08 | meoblast001 | is it? |
| 06:04.10 | meoblast001 | www.thinkgos.com |
| 06:04.11 | tomgibara | I want to make a modest improvement where the library handles remembering whether a notification was displayed and display an activity allowing the user to 'ignore future updates'. |
| 06:04.13 | romainguy_ | tomgibara: I understand and welcome your feedback |
| 06:04.16 | BruteSource | next android phone will be a motorola |
| 06:04.17 | meoblast001 | selling for 800 dollars |
| 06:04.18 | meoblast001 | i want one |
| 06:04.30 | romainguy_ | I'm just saying that we have about a million of "high priority" features :) |
| 06:04.32 | meoblast001 | G2 isnt a phone |
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| 06:04.40 | meoblast001 | its a computer |
| 06:04.49 | BruteSource | oh your saying there is already a g2 and its for sale? lmao |
| 06:04.50 | meoblast001 | made by a company obsessed with Google and Apple lol |
| 06:04.59 | BruteSource | eww |
| 06:05.04 | meoblast001 | their OS looks just like Mac but contains millions of Google features |
| 06:05.07 | BruteSource | forget that |
| 06:05.07 | summatusmentis | so I saw the G1 for the first time this weekend... beautiful |
| 06:05.13 | RyeBrye | The G1 is nice |
| 06:05.20 | tomgibara | The problem is that there is effectively no way to bundle any layout/graphics etc. with the library - so supporting UI is impractical to the point of impossibility. |
| 06:05.26 | elad | you can buy a G1 of ebay |
| 06:05.36 | elad | off |
| 06:05.43 | RyeBrye | I need to find where to get a backpack full of batteries for it though |
| 06:05.43 | romainguy_ | tomgibara: you could use RemoteViews |
| 06:05.50 | BruteSource | ya for like 550 dollars plus shiping for a new one fuck that |
| 06:05.52 | tomgibara | The only other option is to build an APK, but that requires the user to install a separate apk. |
| 06:06.05 | RyeBrye | and it's annoying that if it's plugged into USB it wont have enough juice to keep alive while you swap batteries |
| 06:06.23 | RyeBrye | (although it does have enough juice to pull the battery out if you are on the booloader screen and attached to USB) |
| 06:06.27 | BruteSource | tmobile is supposed to be selling them contract free for 400 dollars |
| 06:06.37 | tomgibara | romainguy_: I've looked into that, but it seems slightly backwards for my purposes. I'll take another look. |
| 06:06.40 | RyeBrye | BruteSource - ETF is only $200 |
| 06:06.49 | BruteSource | so? |
| 06:06.56 | RyeBrye | BruteSource - so buy at wallmart, pay a month, and then terminate the contract and you get it for $348 |
| 06:06.57 | romainguy_ | tomgibara: well it lets you use layouts from anoter apk/process |
| 06:07.08 | BruteSource | what does that have to do with the price of eans in china? |
| 06:07.09 | RyeBrye | well.. $348 + the month |
| 06:07.20 | zhobbs | tomgibara: you could check for the existence of the dependency on the first boot and send them to the market to install it |
| 06:07.25 | RyeBrye | BruteSource, this is #android, not #brute-source-bitches-about-tmobile |
| 06:07.30 | RyeBrye | :P |
| 06:07.36 | BruteSource | if i could get on a contract with tmobile, don't you think i would have already? |
| 06:07.43 | RyeBrye | Oh, gotcha |
| 06:07.44 | romainguy_ | Cedric_: nice blog :) |
| 06:07.48 | tomgibara | romainguy_: Yes, I'm familiar with it. But there was something about it that didn't quite fit right, maybe I need to change my thinking. |
| 06:07.51 | BruteSource | go troll somewhrere else |
| 06:07.52 | romainguy_ | Cedric_: reminds me of 2008, 2007, ... 1997 |
| 06:08.05 | Cedric_ | romainguy_: haha |
| 06:08.07 | Cedric_ | Couldn't help it |
| 06:08.15 | romainguy_ | you bet |
| 06:08.32 | tomgibara | zhobbs: I'm resisting any approach like that because I don't think the updating library should tie developers to any market - directly or indirectly. |
| 06:08.56 | *** join/#android zmedico (n=zmedico@ip68-4-152-120.oc.oc.cox.net) |
| 06:09.03 | romainguy_ | tomgibara: well you give yourself pretty big constraints :) |
| 06:09.16 | romainguy_ | make that an option :) |
| 06:09.47 | tomgibara | hmm... useful feedback, needs more thought. |
| 06:10.01 | romainguy_ | but again, yes we need better support for all this |
| 06:10.12 | romainguy_ | likewise, it'd be great if installing an app from market could pull another apk |
| 06:10.16 | romainguy_ | (like Radar) |
| 06:11.05 | tomgibara | Yes, but a total muddle ensues when version dependencies arise - or the user decides to remove one app that another depends upon. |
| 06:11.15 | RyeBrye | Is radar open source? I want to make one that is pink with little hearts and call it "Gaydar" |
| 06:11.18 | romainguy_ | I never said it'd be easy |
| 06:11.24 | romainguy_ | I said it's something we are thinking about |
| 06:11.26 | tomgibara | This is an extremely delicate problem - I'm happy you're taking your time :) |
| 06:11.31 | romainguy_ | RyeBrye: it is open source |
| 06:11.34 | RyeBrye | Cool |
| 06:11.42 | RyeBrye | romainguy - did you write it? |
| 06:11.42 | romainguy_ | code.google.com/p/apps-for-android |
| 06:11.45 | romainguy_ | nope |
| 06:11.52 | spikebike | <PROTECTED> |
| 06:12.12 | RyeBrye | Does it tell you how big they are? |
| 06:12.23 | RyeBrye | I already filled my phone once and had to delete stuff |
| 06:12.29 | tomgibara | Hence the paralysis: It's extremely tricky atm to judge the best approach to anything like this. |
| 06:12.31 | romainguy_ | spikebike: well the thing is the normal cell phone user doesn't care :) |
| 06:12.36 | RyeBrye | (btw: calculating sizes - can't that be done lazily? holy crap that takes forever) |
| 06:12.50 | romainguy_ | RyeBrye: yeah, we have a fix for the next version of the OS |
| 06:13.01 | RyeBrye | Sweet. I'll compile and install it now! |
| 06:13.03 | RyeBrye | oh... wait... ;) |
| 06:13.07 | *** join/#android eton (n=eton@ppp-58-8-18-114.revip2.asianet.co.th) |
| 06:13.08 | romainguy_ | RyeBrye: and yes, Market tells you the size of each app |
| 06:13.14 | RyeBrye | ok, I just haven't been looking |
| 06:13.19 | zhobbs | spikebike: yeah, I like when they mention it's open source and give a url in the description |
| 06:13.20 | romainguy_ | RyeBrye: the fix is not in the public tree |
| 06:13.31 | *** join/#android Chicago (n=Chicago@c-98-223-62-201.hsd1.in.comcast.net) |
| 06:13.58 | RyeBrye | It's in the Setec Astronomy tree? |
| 06:14.05 | romainguy_ | er what? |
| 06:14.15 | Chicago | Hello |
| 06:14.26 | RyeBrye | sneakers reference.... nm |
| 06:14.46 | BruteSource | i should just buy a vogue, that way i can have android and root |
| 06:15.10 | RyeBrye | I should just use one of the friend finder apps to find a google engineer |
| 06:15.16 | RyeBrye | so I can bludgeon him and get android and root |
| 06:15.16 | romainguy_ | hey it's almost been a day without hearing a reference to being root :) |
| 06:15.26 | RyeBrye | it's a weekend :) |
| 06:15.31 | romainguy_ | true :) |
| 06:15.45 | muthu | root root ;) |
| 06:16.34 | BruteSource | because linux is almost useless without root, whats the use of having this great os with a linux subsystem and no root |
| 06:16.50 | romainguy_ | Linux? useless without root? |
| 06:16.54 | spikebike | heh |
| 06:16.59 | BruteSource | almost |
| 06:17.10 | BruteSource | is what i said, if you can read |
| 06:17.17 | romainguy_ | even almost |
| 06:17.18 | spikebike | dunno it works for me, there's only a few things I can think of that nneed root |
| 06:17.22 | *** join/#android ErikT (n=erik@c-76-104-164-156.hsd1.wa.comcast.net) |
| 06:17.33 | tomgibara | I think I've said this before, but I'm glad there's no root access - it makes my phone more secure. |
| 06:17.46 | BruteSource | well ya the average windows computer user will be fine with it |
| 06:17.49 | romainguy_ | tomgibara: I think they want to be root just for the sake of being root |
| 06:17.56 | RyeBrye | Yes |
| 06:17.57 | tomgibara | :) |
| 06:18.06 | BruteSource | ya thats it |
| 06:18.10 | RyeBrye | Well, that's part of it |
| 06:18.24 | RyeBrye | I don't really care if I'm locked out of root - I just wnat to be able to flash my own images onto the phone |
| 06:18.30 | DarkriftX | i dont want to be root |
| 06:18.33 | spikebike | a 3G <-> wifi router/tether would be nice, although tmo's not going to like it |
| 06:18.35 | DarkriftX | but i want root access to reflash |
| 06:18.36 | DarkriftX | lol |
| 06:18.38 | spikebike | a VPN would be very nice as well |
| 06:18.46 | romainguy_ | you don't need to be root to reflash the device |
| 06:19.06 | BruteSource | root has nothing to do with reflashing, thats the locked htc bootloader |
| 06:19.08 | RyeBrye | Yeah, I don't want root - I want a way to flash unsigned images - I should be more specific |
| 06:19.13 | DarkriftX | well, ok |
| 06:19.22 | DarkriftX | with root we might not need to reflash an image |
| 06:19.29 | BruteSource | no |
| 06:19.36 | zhobbs | "adb flash my_android.img" |
| 06:19.43 | RyeBrye | The HTC bootloader appears to be neutered, and the next step in the chain is the Android recovery mode - and it only like signed images |
| 06:19.46 | BruteSource | the bootloader has nothing to do with linux |
| 06:19.52 | jsherman | :( even user-created maps linking against the maps lib won't work on git base |
| 06:19.53 | DarkriftX | zhobbs, they are signed and we cant get past that |
| 06:20.21 | jsherman | that padlock leads me to believe it's intentional |
| 06:20.41 | BruteSource | dream is not the first device to come with a locked bootloader |
| 06:20.55 | RyeBrye | No, probably not |
| 06:21.05 | DarkriftX | we are past that part already BruteSource |
| 06:21.20 | BruteSource | just dont talk |
| 06:21.30 | DarkriftX | why, am i a fake google employee too? |
| 06:21.40 | DarkriftX | you gonna send me an email? |
| 06:21.42 | BruteSource | lol get some new material |
| 06:21.42 | DarkriftX | hides |
| 06:21.55 | *** join/#android Goosey (n=Goosey@cpe-67-9-174-97.austin.res.rr.com) |
| 06:22.08 | BruteSource | gotta love the on guard google script kiddies always on duty here |
| 06:22.10 | DarkriftX | lol, go find a bottle, you are much more informative when you are drunk and trolling |
| 06:22.10 | *** join/#android Neverender (n=nick@c-76-126-245-95.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
| 06:22.38 | BruteSource | haha, again no one cares for your lame repeated material |
| 06:22.47 | RyeBrye | Someone got the HTC bootloader unlocked? I think the t-mobile update thing that people are working with is going to be a very long process since we don't have the private key and everything it wants is signed |
| 06:22.54 | BHSPitLappy | here we go |
| 06:22.56 | RyeBrye | err rather the android update recovery mode |
| 06:23.28 | BruteSource | yes it has been done with the cdma diamond |
| 06:23.54 | BruteSource | which had a locked bootloader, so im sure something similar can be done with the dream |
| 06:24.29 | RyeBrye | well buy whoever did that a beer and a G1 |
| 06:25.01 | BruteSource | lol sure, soon as i can find someone to sell me the damn thing for 400 usd lol |
| 06:26.05 | Chicago | Hi, on the source.android.com page it says we need Ubuntu to build Android. Since I have Gentoo instead, are there other Gentoo users here? |
| 06:26.16 | romainguy_ | jsherman: even user-created maps linking against the maps lib won't work on git base << with a Maps API key? |
| 06:26.22 | jsherman | yep |
| 06:26.38 | jsherman | signed with a different key from the base system though |
| 06:26.47 | jsherman | i made an apk with the 1.0 sdk |
| 06:26.54 | jsherman | installing it in the 1.0 emulator -> everything ok |
| 06:26.56 | BruteSource | source.adroid.com says you need ubuntu? |
| 06:27.06 | BruteSource | android even |
| 06:27.08 | romainguy_ | jsherman: what do you mean "signed"? |
| 06:27.14 | romainguy_ | the Maps API key doesn't require signing |
| 06:27.17 | jsherman | installing it in git emulator with maps framework copied from 1.0 system image -> doesn't work |
| 06:27.20 | jsherman | well |
| 06:27.22 | jsherman | the API key you use |
| 06:27.30 | jsherman | has to be linked with the key that signed the apk |
| 06:27.35 | Chicago | BruteSource: Yes it does, right in section 2.1 "Linux". |
| 06:27.38 | romainguy_ | ah yes I remember |
| 06:27.40 | romainguy_ | you're right |
| 06:27.50 | romainguy_ | then you should then emails to the Android Google Groups |
| 06:27.51 | romainguy_ | or file bugs |
| 06:27.57 | romainguy_ | we'll get that to the Maps guys |
| 06:27.58 | jsherman | ya |
| 06:28.03 | jsherman | i sent an email |
| 06:28.05 | BruteSource | why the hell would they say you needed ubuntu? |
| 06:28.06 | jsherman | i can file an issue for it too |
| 06:28.33 | BruteSource | not like google to endorse one particular distro |
| 06:29.07 | romainguy_ | BruteSource: because that's probably the only distro we tested it against |
| 06:29.13 | romainguy_ | it's not endorsement |
| 06:29.21 | romainguy_ | it's what we know works |
| 06:29.41 | romainguy_ | and apparently that was a good idea since we needed patches to make it build on Fedora for instance |
| 06:29.41 | BruteSource | why would it be any different than any other distro? |
| 06:29.57 | romainguy_ | because it's Linux |
| 06:30.03 | BruteSource | i had no trouble building it on gentoo |
| 06:30.10 | romainguy_ | good then |
| 06:30.18 | romainguy_ | file an issue saying the page shoul dbe updated |
| 06:30.25 | romainguy_ | but like I said, it would not build on Fedora |
| 06:30.25 | jsherman | BruteSource, they can't really claim "this will build on any linux distro" |
| 06:30.34 | jsherman | what should they say instead? |
| 06:30.36 | BruteSource | i had to use an arm toolchain but i imagine any distro would be tthe same |
| 06:30.51 | romainguy_ | but there's an ARM toolchain included in the tree? |
| 06:30.57 | Chicago | The main thing I am concerned with is whether or not there is a Python 2.4 requirement. The same section says to make sure I have Python 2.4.... but I have already upgraded to Python 2.5 and removed the older version a few months ago. |
| 06:31.19 | romainguy_ | Chicago: it worked with Python 2.5 for me |
| 06:31.25 | romainguy_ | there were problems with 2.4 |
| 06:31.26 | BruteSource | what does ubuntu have that fc doesnt? |
| 06:31.29 | romainguy_ | but they've been fixed |
| 06:31.40 | romainguy_ | BruteSource: I don't know, look at the patches |
| 06:32.04 | umdk1d3 | eek is there a way to use Resources to get the value="" values for a <string-array> defined in xml? |
| 06:32.10 | BruteSource | ubuntu is becoming some kind of crooked linux standard |
| 06:32.18 | BruteSource | its sick |
| 06:32.19 | romainguy_ | umdk1d3: say again? |
| 06:32.22 | Chicago | Section 2.1 also says I need 6GB free to complete the build. The only other suite I have which needs that much space is openoffice. |
| 06:32.39 | romainguy_ | Chicago: it's not a small project :) |
| 06:32.45 | umdk1d3 | so i have <string-array> <item value="4">name</item> |
| 06:33.05 | umdk1d3 | getResources().getStringArray() returns the text values fine, but im trying to figrue out how to get my hands on the value's list |
| 06:33.23 | romainguy_ | oh, the entries ids? |
| 06:33.27 | BruteSource | so google uses ubuntu for development? or just this project? |
| 06:33.34 | *** join/#android fhobia (n=fhobia@c-24-6-54-200.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
| 06:33.40 | romainguy_ | BruteSource: many in the team use OS X :) |
| 06:34.00 | BruteSource | so why not reccomend that? |
| 06:34.15 | BruteSource | ew i can't believe i just said that lol |
| 06:34.22 | romainguy_ | er what? we don't recommend Ubuntu |
| 06:34.53 | elad | java |
| 06:35.03 | BruteSource | for building the android source you do apparently |
| 06:35.13 | elad | avaj |
| 06:35.16 | romainguy_ | we don't recommend Ubuntu over Mac OS X |
| 06:35.33 | romainguy_ | and we just say that you need Ubuntu because, again, that's the only distro we know works |
| 06:35.40 | romainguy_ | if you know other distros that work, file a bug |
| 06:35.47 | romainguy_ | submit a patch with the detailed explanations |
| 06:35.50 | romainguy_ | and we'll update the page |
| 06:35.58 | gambler | Fedora 9 compiled first try |
| 06:36.08 | romainguy_ | because we accepted patches to make that work :) |
| 06:36.17 | muthu | f9 - no issues |
| 06:36.17 | Cedric_ | So if other distros work, it's a bug? :) |
| 06:36.26 | BruteSource | why did you not build on osx yourselfs? ubuntu was easier? |
| 06:36.27 | romainguy_ | Cedric_: yes :) |
| 06:36.28 | Chicago | emerge bison -pv |
| 06:36.31 | Damm | man repo... is annoying |
| 06:36.41 | Damm | kept failing on wlan/ti sync |
| 06:36.46 | Cedric_ | BruteSource: we build on Linux and Mac all the time but we had to focus on one distribution for 1.0 |
| 06:36.51 | Chicago | oops sorry about that, lol |
| 06:37.23 | umdk1d3 | its just odd that android:entryValues somehow is able to read those value's from <item>s |
| 06:37.25 | BruteSource | im just saying, it doesnt say osx or ubuntu, just says ubuntu |
| 06:37.49 | romainguy_ | BruteSource: there's an entire section for Mac OS |
| 06:37.52 | romainguy_ | http://source.android.com/download |
| 06:37.56 | DarkriftX | To build the Android source under Linux, you will need Ubuntu. The Android build is routinely tested on recent versions of Ubuntu (6.06 and later), but reports of successes or failures on other distributions are welcome. |
| 06:38.02 | BruteSource | anyways i guess one linux distro is better than saying use only osx |
| 06:38.40 | romainguy_ | "To build the Android source files, you will need to use Linux or Mac OS. Building under Windows is not currently supported." |
| 06:38.40 | DarkriftX | To build the Android files in a Mac OS environment, you need an Intel/x86 machine. The Android build system and tools do not support the obsolete PowerPC architecture. |
| 06:38.44 | romainguy_ | straight from the web site |
| 06:38.49 | umdk1d3 | that phrase "will need" is kinda strong though, talking about ubuntu |
| 06:38.58 | romainguy_ | argh |
| 06:39.00 | romainguy_ | file bugs |
| 06:39.02 | romainguy_ | submit changes |
| 06:39.07 | BruteSource | lol ya they do not get hat |
| 06:39.11 | BruteSource | but oh well |
| 06:39.18 | BruteSource | its not a bug |
| 06:39.19 | romainguy_ | complaining about the words we used here won't help |
| 06:39.28 | DarkriftX | yeah, i noticed that too umdk1d3 |
| 06:39.39 | DarkriftX | i think the wording could be better |
| 06:39.39 | elad | hmm anyone seen the new hummer3 truck |
| 06:39.43 | elad | interesting |
| 06:39.46 | DarkriftX | but they do explain it in the next sentance |
| 06:39.56 | romainguy_ | file bugs |
| 06:39.59 | DarkriftX | if its not h1, it sux |
| 06:40.00 | romainguy_ | submit changes |
| 06:40.01 | romainguy_ | :) |
| 06:40.37 | tomgibara | Wow, android has turned into a real open source project quickly! |
| 06:40.40 | BruteSource | again it is not a bug |
| 06:40.58 | romainguy_ | BruteSource: I'm telling you it is |
| 06:41.00 | *** join/#android neerhaj (i=chatzill@203.115.94.235) |
| 06:41.19 | romainguy_ | BruteSource: if you want the team to know about something, that's the best way to go atm |
| 06:41.23 | BruteSource | well you are wrong, im sure it is some kind of marketing agenda |
| 06:41.30 | romainguy_ | ahahah |
| 06:41.30 | romainguy_ | sure |
| 06:41.32 | DarkriftX | lol |
| 06:41.38 | BruteSource | anyways, i dont care |
| 06:41.45 | DarkriftX | next week we see the headline "google buys ubuntu" |
| 06:42.01 | romainguy_ | tomgibara: apparently :) |
| 06:42.02 | Cedric_ | Ubuntu pays us to promote their distribution |
| 06:42.07 | Cedric_ | Google developers need to eat! |
| 06:42.29 | romainguy_ | wait we have a Windows SDK |
| 06:42.31 | Cedric_ | Ubuntu even remodeled my house for free |
| 06:42.36 | RyeBrye | Google developers don't need to eat |
| 06:42.37 | romainguy_ | there must be a scheme there too |
| 06:42.46 | RyeBrye | they get spoon fed caviar as they code |
| 06:42.47 | RyeBrye | ;) |
| 06:42.48 | languish | <BruteSource> anyways, i dont care <- new tactic from the nightly "I'm sorry, you were right..." |
| 06:42.49 | languish | ? |
| 06:42.50 | romainguy_ | RyeBrye: well Cedric and I work from home regularly |
| 06:42.55 | gambler | Cedric Stevens? |
| 06:43.03 | romainguy_ | RyeBrye: so we need to eat :) |
| 06:43.05 | RyeBrye | Oh, you can work from home at google? |
| 06:43.07 | Cedric_ | Beust. Cedric Beust. |
| 06:43.16 | romainguy_ | RyeBrye: no :) |
| 06:43.23 | gambler | thanks for the clarification. |
| 06:43.23 | Cedric_ | (tried my best 007 voice here) |
| 06:43.26 | RyeBrye | ok |
| 06:43.29 | Korzun | We need a windshield mount for android for GPS |
| 06:43.31 | DarkriftX | lol |
| 06:43.35 | Korzun | ;) |
| 06:43.38 | RyeBrye | works from home at his current job, and only goes in for meetings |
| 06:43.41 | DarkriftX | i thought about htat last night Korzun |
| 06:43.45 | DarkriftX | it will be here soon |
| 06:43.46 | Korzun | heh |
| 06:43.52 | Korzun | For under $10 |
| 06:43.58 | DarkriftX | i work to get away from home :S |
| 06:44.05 | Chicago | Does android require wxGTK2.6 as listed on the source homepage in the linux section? I have version wxGTK 2.8.8.1 instead. |
| 06:44.11 | DarkriftX | married with 3 kids can do that to you |
| 06:44.58 | ErikT | The two french guys work from home. Interesting. ;-) |
| 06:45.22 | Cedric_ | I actually could work from home a lot more than I do, I just love being on the campus |
| 06:45.42 | romainguy_ | same thing |
| 06:46.01 | romainguy_ | it's also a lot easier to be on the campus considering how many persons I need to interact with |
| 06:46.37 | muthu | working from home is nearly impossible if you have a family |
| 06:47.06 | romainguy_ | depends on where they are during the day I guess? |
| 06:47.12 | RyeBrye | I was going to interview with google at one time right after I got out of school, but a local startup (that later failed) was so much faster with the interview process and made me an offer I couldn't refuse |
| 06:47.14 | muthu | Cedric_: lol, you the next bond, huh? |
| 06:47.33 | RyeBrye | literally... they had guns to my head... it was kind of scary |
| 06:47.37 | muthu | thu. Mu. thu. |
| 06:47.43 | muthu | that's my bond ;) |
| 06:47.43 | gambler | I hope they didnt put a horse's head in your bed RyeBrye |
| 06:47.45 | gambler | ah ofc |
| 06:47.57 | Cedric_ | RyeBrye: yeah we lose people to startups that can interview faster |
| 06:48.18 | muthu | goog interview process is krazy |
| 06:48.24 | muthu | 10 layers? |
| 06:48.25 | RyeBrye | I hear it takes 3 months or something |
| 06:48.31 | jsherman | <PROTECTED> |
| 06:48.33 | jsherman | def not |
| 06:48.34 | muthu | who the hell goes thru that? |
| 06:48.37 | jsherman | oh maybe for fulltime |
| 06:48.38 | romainguy_ | definitely not |
| 06:48.40 | jsherman | def not for interns |
| 06:48.44 | Cedric_ | Not 10 layers |
| 06:48.56 | Cedric_ | Usually a phone screen, then a day of interviews with 5-6 eng |
| 06:49.04 | Cedric_ | but it does take a while |
| 06:49.12 | romainguy_ | and when you're an intern you get through 2 interviews to be converted to full time |
| 06:49.28 | romainguy_ | (+ assessment from your manager/team) |
| 06:49.32 | muthu | any org should be agile enough to quickly hire imo |
| 06:49.49 | muthu | & quickly fire.. hehe |
| 06:50.19 | RyeBrye | I did an HR phone screen, and then the HR lady called me back to set up the phone screen with someone and asked me to rate myself on a ton of categories - but prefacing it by telling me something like "If you say you are too high, they will think you are an ass. If you say too low, it's ok." |
| 06:51.14 | muthu | that sux |
| 06:51.42 | spikebike | heh |
| 06:51.43 | RyeBrye | yeah, I was like... "umm... put me down at 1 for everything then? that's a rather foolish way of setting up a self-evaluation system" |
| 06:52.03 | spikebike | well I've seen apps that have 60-70 categories |
| 06:52.10 | RyeBrye | onthe market? |
| 06:52.14 | RyeBrye | Oh - job apps |
| 06:52.23 | spikebike | and the top rating it notable expert and have had people put the top rating for every category |
| 06:52.32 | RyeBrye | That's awesome |
| 06:52.38 | RyeBrye | Was the candidate Peter Norton? |
| 06:52.49 | RyeBrye | or Dr. Dobbs himself? |
| 06:52.58 | muthu | lol |
| 06:53.00 | spikebike | oh sweet |
| 06:53.09 | spikebike | just got 2 8GB cards for the g1 |
| 06:53.16 | spikebike | amusingly they come with an adapter for the next larger size |
| 06:53.16 | RyeBrye | tape them together |
| 06:53.21 | muthu | haha |
| 06:53.25 | spikebike | and another adapter for the next larger size |
| 06:53.32 | romainguy_ | sandisk? |
| 06:53.33 | *** join/#android meoblast001 (n=meoblast@dynamic-acs-24-239-93-241.zoominternet.net) |
| 06:53.34 | RyeBrye | Yeah, it's like a russian doll |
| 06:53.41 | spikebike | exxactly |
| 06:53.50 | spikebike | adata, 8GB class 6 |
| 06:53.56 | spikebike | $30 USA |
| 06:54.20 | ErikT | That's like 2 euros, right? ;-) |
| 06:54.21 | Damm | what's the point of 8gb sdhc cards if you can't store applications on the memory card? |
| 06:54.38 | Damm | err microsdhc |
| 06:54.44 | romainguy_ | Damm: to store music and pictures for instance |
| 06:54.45 | muthu | hang on.. things would happen |
| 06:54.51 | romainguy_ | or just to store data that apps generate |
| 06:54.54 | muthu | its only a matter of time before apps start running from sdcard |
| 06:55.05 | Damm | romainguy_, music = ipod. |
| 06:55.10 | romainguy_ | for you |
| 06:55.12 | spikebike | damn that might change |
| 06:55.13 | Damm | not even BT stereo |
| 06:55.15 | BHSPitLappy | muthu, applications just have to learn how to do that, right |
| 06:55.19 | spikebike | and yeah, music, pictures, even video |
| 06:55.19 | romainguy_ | Damm: so? |
| 06:55.22 | Damm | now you give me flac support |
| 06:55.25 | muthu | BHSPitLappy: true |
| 06:55.26 | Damm | and I'll be interested |
| 06:55.28 | spikebike | there's stereo headphones included |
| 06:55.29 | BHSPitLappy | apps are smart, they'll figure it out |
| 06:55.30 | geist | yeah, totally |
| 06:55.38 | geist | i was pretty unhappy that there's no flac or alac |
| 06:55.46 | geist | half my music is that |
| 06:55.48 | spikebike | there's ogg support, mp3, good enough for me, not like flac -> ogg is rocket science |
| 06:55.53 | jsherman | where is the coding convention document |
| 06:55.54 | RyeBrye | I need aflac |
| 06:55.56 | spikebike | geist transcoding is easy |
| 06:56.08 | BHSPitLappy | transcoding shouldn't be necessary |
| 06:56.11 | geist | so is writing a decoder for flac |
| 06:56.13 | muthu | yummm... fish fry in the air :)) |
| 06:56.14 | BHSPitLappy | and it's an open platform |
| 06:56.15 | spikebike | keep the master on a big disk with flac, then fill up your phone with a script |
| 06:56.17 | romainguy_ | jsherman: it might be somewhere in the tree, otherwise, just look at existing files |
| 06:56.25 | romainguy_ | jsherman: are you looking to write Java code? |
| 06:56.36 | jsherman | i want to submit a one line patch to fix a null pointer exception |
| 06:56.39 | jsherman | i want to know the max line length |
| 06:56.41 | romainguy_ | 100 |
| 06:56.42 | geist | yean i know, it's just annoying enough that i dont bother |
| 06:56.44 | jsherman | some lines go over 80 |
| 06:56.46 | spikebike | I've heard for whatever reason the ogg decoder is especially efficient on the g1 |
| 06:56.46 | jsherman | ok |
| 06:56.50 | jsherman | thanks |
| 06:57.05 | geist | probably just never been tuned for arm at all |
| 06:57.08 | romainguy_ | jsherman: ViewGroup.java and TableLayout.java are good example of the Java coding style |
| 06:57.13 | RyeBrye | where are the code guidelines? do all google projects have the same ones? (i.e. alphabetical function names... etc.?) |
| 06:57.17 | geist | it's pretty easy for plain old x86 code to turn out to be terrible on arm |
| 06:57.29 | romainguy_ | RyeBrye: Android's convention are a bit different from Google's |
| 06:57.41 | RyeBrye | Are your function names required to be alphabetical? |
| 06:57.50 | romainguy_ | what do you mean? |
| 06:58.02 | romainguy_ | I certainly hope you use letters to name your methods :) |
| 06:58.28 | RyeBrye | GWT requires that all method and function names are organized in the file in alphabetical order |
| 06:58.36 | romainguy_ | ouch |
| 06:58.37 | shackan | ascii letters ? ;) |
| 06:58.38 | RyeBrye | IIRC |
| 06:58.38 | romainguy_ | no, we don't do that |
| 06:58.44 | romainguy_ | that's what IDEs are good at :) |
| 06:58.45 | RyeBrye | Yeah, it seemed a little third-reich |
| 06:58.48 | romainguy_ | sort the methods for you |
| 06:58.52 | jsherman | is there a way to submit a patch without actually making a local git commit |
| 06:58.56 | romainguy_ | jsherman: no |
| 06:59.14 | jsherman | will there be problems when I sync then |
| 06:59.14 | ErikT | Is there any easy to initiate an action (like clicking on a button) when a user hits enter in a TextView, etc? Can't seem to find much about it. |
| 06:59.20 | romainguy_ | jsherman: I doubt it |
| 06:59.24 | jsherman | im not familiar with git, i'm used to perforce |
| 06:59.29 | romainguy_ | ErikT: setOnClickListener() |
| 06:59.39 | romainguy_ | jsherman: yeah, so are we :) |
| 06:59.43 | romainguy_ | Android uses perforce internally |
| 06:59.48 | jsherman | yeah so I've heard |
| 06:59.55 | ErikT | Romain, That's works for "enter" in a field? |
| 06:59.57 | shackan | why? |
| 07:00.00 | romainguy_ | we're wrapping up stuff before switching everything to git |
| 07:00.04 | romainguy_ | ErikT: yes |
| 07:00.07 | romainguy_ | shackan: why perforce? |
| 07:00.08 | ErikT | Cool... |
| 07:00.10 | ErikT | Thanks. |
| 07:00.17 | shackan | romainguy_: yes |
| 07:00.25 | RyeBrye | romainguy: here's their code style http://code.google.com/webtoolkit/makinggwtbetter.html#codestyle |
| 07:00.35 | romainguy_ | shackan: because perforce is good, has good IDE support and is widely used within Google :) |
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| 07:01.04 | romainguy_ | note that many files in our tree do not follow the proper style guide |
| 07:01.21 | romainguy_ | they were written in the beginning of the project, when things were more... liberal |
| 07:01.35 | shackan | romainguy_: how does it compare to git? |
| 07:01.36 | romainguy_ | we update them slowly as we maintain them |
| 07:01.54 | romainguy_ | shackan: it's quite different, and I don't have enough experience with git to compare them properly |
| 07:02.09 | shackan | np :) |
| 07:02.14 | romainguy_ | but git seems to do everything we need, so I'd say it's at least as good :) |
| 07:02.15 | jsherman | so i mean if i make a commit locally |
| 07:02.28 | jsherman | uh |
| 07:02.34 | geist | git is quite amazing once you figure it out |
| 07:02.44 | geist | the learning curve is a little steeper |
| 07:02.47 | jsherman | won't things get messed up since my history will be out of sync with the central repo |
| 07:02.51 | spikebike | thank god er, whoever dumped linux |
| 07:02.58 | spikebike | bitkeeper |
| 07:03.00 | romainguy_ | jsherman: you could always rollback your local change |
| 07:03.02 | geist | jsherman: nope, actually that's what it's great at |
| 07:03.04 | muthu | figuring out git is the hard part |
| 07:03.11 | romainguy_ | but I doubt you'll have trouble |
| 07:03.13 | geist | or you can roll forward your change real easily |
| 07:03.18 | jsherman | hm ok |
| 07:03.20 | geist | you just gotta know how to do it |
| 07:03.21 | shackan | jsherman: git is usually good at sorting that out |
| 07:03.35 | umdk1d3 | is there a programatic way of getting "/sdcard", maybe from Context, in case its different in the future? |
| 07:03.40 | muthu | but then goog has this repo thing.. |
| 07:03.51 | romainguy_ | repo is just a git wrapper |
| 07:03.58 | muthu | right |
| 07:04.00 | ErikT | Romain, works like a charm. Very nice. |
| 07:04.04 | shackan | geist: that would be a rebase? |
| 07:04.05 | romainguy_ | umdk1d3: there's an external storage API somewhere |
| 07:04.28 | romainguy_ | umdk1d3: http://code.google.com/android/reference/android/os/Environment.html |
| 07:04.32 | muthu | was trying to use 'repo sync' in my own git repo ;) |
| 07:04.45 | geist | shackan: right |
| 07:04.52 | umdk1d3 | romainguy_: awesome =D |
| 07:05.05 | geist | you can just keep playing your change on top of the new head |
| 07:05.17 | muthu | umdk1d3: accessing sdcard is pretty straightforward |
| 07:05.17 | geist | so that it always looks like you had just hacked it right there |
| 07:05.24 | romainguy_ | geist: what does rebase do exactly? I keep hearing about it :) |
| 07:05.37 | muthu | was thinking about storing all my app data in sdcard.. but didn't do it |
| 07:05.39 | geist | well, you can do a lot with it actually |
| 07:05.56 | tomgibara | The thing that threw me about repo, was that the documentation claims it automatically does a rebase after a sync, but I didn't see any evidence of it. |
| 07:05.59 | geist | but the usual use case is to take your changes you've made and reapply them on top of a new head |
| 07:06.11 | geist | so you made a branch at revsion A of the mainline |
| 07:06.21 | geist | make two patches on your branch, A1, A2 |
| 07:06.27 | geist | then mainline goes to C |
| 07:06.29 | umdk1d3 | muthu: what happens if the motoroloa phone uses "/media/flash" or something weird for its external storage? ;) using this approach allows you to be ready for that |
| 07:06.33 | romainguy_ | geist: ok I see |
| 07:06.37 | romainguy_ | geist: that sounds cool |
| 07:06.55 | geist | if you rebase your change on C, it'll essentially switch to C and then play back your changes one at a time, letting you resolve changs |
| 07:07.02 | geist | end result is now you have a C1 and C2 |
| 07:07.30 | geist | there are tons of other things you can do while rebasing, like rearranging theorder you apply them in, merge some of them together, split some apart |
| 07:07.50 | geist | so it's common to also flatten all your changes on some topic branch into 1, then just drop them into mainline |
| 07:08.03 | romainguy_ | that's cool |
| 07:08.13 | romainguy_ | what really excites me about switching to git is branches support |
| 07:08.24 | geist | and since essentially nothing in git is destructive, it just creates new commits when it rebases |
| 07:08.27 | romainguy_ | and the fact that git seems really smart about figuring out what you changed in the tree |
| 07:08.30 | romainguy_ | (like moving files) |
| 07:08.31 | geist | since the new changes will have a different hash |
| 07:08.37 | romainguy_ | perforce sucks at moving files |
| 07:08.42 | geist | you never actually lose anything, you just create new changes |
| 07:08.50 | muthu | i don't see any git branches for android other than master |
| 07:08.57 | geist | so if it goes terribly wrong, you just switch back to your old branch |
| 07:09.02 | muthu | how does android maintain releases? |
| 07:09.07 | romainguy_ | we branch |
| 07:09.11 | romainguy_ | but we're not using git internally |
| 07:09.13 | romainguy_ | not yet |
| 07:09.17 | muthu | ok |
| 07:09.45 | geist | that's what rad about it. git actually has no concept of branches |
| 07:09.55 | geist | it just tracks a given history back through each commit's parent |
| 07:10.08 | geist | when you create a branch, it's really just a convention to call it that |
| 07:10.17 | romainguy_ | yep, it's basically free |
| 07:10.18 | geist | you're really just making changes on some point in the commit chain |
| 07:10.24 | romainguy_ | which is what I like :) |
| 07:10.26 | geist | and it's only a branch if you want to think of it as such |
| 07:10.39 | muthu | geist: so its one long trunk? |
| 07:10.42 | geist | and usually one 'branch' is considered mainline purely by convention |
| 07:10.48 | DarkriftX | lol |
| 07:11.16 | geist | muthu: sort of, yeah. since each commit is globally unique, and comtains a reference to it's globaly unique parent |
| 07:11.27 | geist | given any commit hash, you can trace it's history back to the beginning of time |
| 07:11.28 | romainguy_ | geist: thinking in terms of branches is helpful for releases maintenance I find |
| 07:11.46 | geist | also means given any two commits you can find their common ancestor by just tracking their parent until they collide |
| 07:11.48 | romainguy_ | but again, I'm a total newbie when it comes to git :) |
| 07:11.56 | geist | or if one is a parent of another, etc |
| 07:12.13 | geist | so the structure of the branches is implicit given any commit hash |
| 07:12.49 | geist | the globally uniqueness of the commits is rad too. for linux stuff it's really handy to cherry pick a change from the future |
| 07:13.05 | romainguy_ | yes, I'm sure it's gonna be very handy for Android |
| 07:13.10 | geist | linus checkks in somethign in trunk, you can just sync with their repo and cherry pick the change to your tree |
| 07:13.14 | muthu | i like the fact you can just do your thing locally |
| 07:13.18 | geist | right |
| 07:13.31 | geist | a server to git is just a local repository in some shared spot |
| 07:13.34 | geist | nothing different about it |
| 07:13.42 | muthu | nice |
| 07:13.50 | geist | so at work, for example, I point my home machine at my work machine and vice versa |
| 07:13.58 | geist | one is a remote of another |
| 07:14.11 | geist | so i can make a change, commit it, go home and pull it down and keep playing |
| 07:14.26 | muthu | ha |
| 07:14.28 | muthu | cool |
| 07:14.35 | geist | and since you can commit whatever you want, it doesn't really exist until you push it somewhere global |
| 07:14.48 | geist | you can make all sorts of temporary commits, as long as you clean them up later, which is super easy to do |
| 07:14.59 | geist | flattening them, undoing them, deleting them from history, etc |
| 07:15.07 | romainguy_ | what's flattening? |
| 07:15.26 | geist | like going back in history and merging a a bunch of commits into each other |
| 07:15.33 | romainguy_ | ok that's what I thought |
| 07:15.47 | geist | you can rearrange them, flatten them, or split them pretty easily |
| 07:15.55 | geist | or just drop em |
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| 07:16.22 | EpicUser | ; |
| 07:16.22 | geist | once you get really handy at that, svn and p4 and whatnot gets relaly annoying, since it forces you down this linear time thing |
| 07:16.28 | geist | that starst feeling really restrictive |
| 07:16.48 | romainguy_ | oh they can be annoying even without using git :) |
| 07:16.54 | geist | that too |
| 07:17.01 | muthu | geist: when you switch branch, the local unversioned files are not deleted, right? |
| 07:17.23 | geist | if you check out another local branch? |
| 07:17.26 | geist | yeah, they're left there |
| 07:17.29 | muthu | ok |
| 07:17.39 | geist | though if you have work pending you can also just commit it s 'foobar' or something |
| 07:17.51 | muthu | right |
| 07:17.53 | geist | and there's a 'git stash' that just makes a hidden commit to store pending work |
| 07:17.55 | romainguy_ | geist: the most annoying thing with perforce is how heavy branching can be, it makes working on several changelists for the same files at the same time really annoying |
| 07:18.04 | geist | one trick you can do with git is commit something as foobar or whatever you want |
| 07:18.07 | spikebike | I wonder what percentage of g1's have gotten an OTA update |
| 07:18.11 | geist | then later on you can do a |
| 07:18.17 | geist | git reset --soft HEAD^ |
| 07:18.27 | geist | which reverts the commit as if it never happened, but leaves the files alone |
| 07:18.33 | geist | so now you're left with a bunch of unversioned stuff |
| 07:19.13 | geist | romainguy_: yeah, though it does a half decent job at tracking what has and hasn't been merged |
| 07:19.17 | geist | svn is kind of a nightmare with that |
| 07:19.25 | romainguy_ | yes |
| 07:19.30 | geist | last company i worked for had 30 or 40GB of data per 'branch' |
| 07:19.34 | muthu | am porting all svn stuff to git :) |
| 07:19.47 | geist | so with p4 everytime you needed a new branch it'd take an hour or so to just check it out before you could start |
| 07:19.47 | romainguy_ | although moving things between branches in perforce can be quite confusing at times :) |
| 07:20.01 | geist | since you can't do anything server side like you can on svn |
| 07:20.03 | muthu | geist: isn't git takes a lot more storage? |
| 07:20.09 | geist | no no, that's the best part about git |
| 07:20.12 | geist | it's extremely compact |
| 07:20.23 | geist | in the .git dir on your checkout you essentially have the entire repository |
| 07:20.34 | geist | but it's packed super tight |
| 07:20.41 | muthu | nice |
| 07:20.41 | geist | the entire history of linux, for example, is about 250-300MB |
| 07:21.06 | spikebike | wow, that is impressive |
| 07:21.07 | geist | basically git is a big content addressible file system, keyed by the SHA-1 hash of the object |
| 07:21.15 | geist | with a patch management thing built on top of it |
| 07:21.19 | spikebike | today's kernel is impressively big |
| 07:21.20 | muthu | but storing all contents instead of delta, not an overhead? |
| 07:21.27 | spikebike | (just a single snapshot) |
| 07:21.45 | geist | so first and foremost it has a very compact way of storing each object as deltas from other objects |
| 07:21.58 | geist | but from the upper levels of the code, it's just a pile of a million objects, or so |
| 07:22.06 | jsherman | i have no idea what im doing w.r.t git |
| 07:22.08 | jsherman | http://review.source.android.com/1851 |
| 07:22.15 | jsherman | hopefully that is done right |
| 07:22.46 | geist | if you unpacked the git db for linux, it'd probably be many gigabytes, but given that most objects are probably just simple deltas from another, it tries to pack them |
| 07:23.00 | geist | and does a darn good job at it |
| 07:24.06 | geist | git at the high level doesn't actually store deltas between commits, it just stores a new snapshots |
| 07:24.12 | muthu | when did git released? |
| 07:24.13 | geist | if a file changed, it results in a new object |
| 07:24.30 | geist | so deltas for diff purposes or merges or whatnot are actually calculated at run time |
| 07:24.51 | geist | also renames are tracked that way too. git just does a search to see if a blob shows up in a new spot, and assumes that's a rename |
| 07:25.00 | romainguy_ | jsherman: I just reviewed your change, there's a little edit to make :) |
| 07:25.09 | romainguy_ | geist: and that is sweeet |
| 07:25.18 | romainguy_ | to handle moves/renames we use a p4 wrapper at google |
| 07:25.23 | romainguy_ | slaps the stupid integrates |
| 07:25.26 | jsherman | haha |
| 07:25.26 | jsherman | oops |
| 07:25.27 | geist | it has some little heuristic to determine that a file showed up in a new spot |
| 07:26.29 | geist | anywya, we're pushing to move stuff to git at work too |
| 07:26.42 | geist | but there's a big mental hurdle to get people off |
| 07:26.43 | geist | over |
| 07:26.53 | muthu | geist: is git new? |
| 07:26.57 | geist | and there's always some idiot that wants to use windows... |
| 07:27.01 | muthu | been hearing about git only now.. |
| 07:27.06 | geist | muthu: couple years i think |
| 07:27.14 | muthu | ok |
| 07:27.15 | tomgibara | Git is how source control systems should have worked for decades |
| 07:27.34 | geist | supposedly some of the other distributed source control systems have similar features as well |
| 07:27.43 | geist | but git is the first one i used |
| 07:27.45 | Cedric_ | It also has a command line syntax that feels decades old |
| 07:28.06 | geist | yeah, that's a complaint, a lot of thecommands are seriously overloaded |
| 07:28.09 | geist | git checkout, git reset, git diff |
| 07:28.17 | geist | lots of not quite the same thing you can do with them |
| 07:28.36 | jsherman | er is it supposed to make another reviedw |
| 07:28.40 | jsherman | instead of just updating the existing one? |
| 07:29.00 | romainguy_ | geist: Mercurial looks very similar indeed |
| 07:29.15 | muthu | the ide's seem to be lagging in git support |
| 07:29.50 | jsherman | romainguy_, is it supposed to make another review page, or update the existing one? |
| 07:30.07 | romainguy_ | no idea |
| 07:30.09 | romainguy_ | I don't see any update |
| 07:30.12 | tomgibara | muthu: things move slowly... |
| 07:30.14 | jsherman | yeah it made another page |
| 07:30.18 | gambler | muthu, there is QGit, thats pretty handy |
| 07:30.25 | romainguy_ | I can't see your new change |
| 07:30.31 | geist | yeah, doesn't bug me since i'm command line only |
| 07:30.34 | romainguy_ | there's an Eclipse plugin |
| 07:30.34 | geist | but i can see the issue |
| 07:30.42 | romainguy_ | also an IntelliJ plugin |
| 07:30.42 | jsherman | oh maybe i am supposed to just cancel this one? |
| 07:31.03 | romainguy_ | ok I see the new one |
| 07:31.04 | jsherman | ok i guess ill just delete the old one |
| 07:31.08 | romainguy_ | ok |
| 07:31.16 | romainguy_ | it might be because I LGTM'd your first change |
| 07:31.27 | romainguy_ | ah there's another edit you should make |
| 07:31.31 | jsherman | lol |
| 07:31.34 | romainguy_ | sorry I missed it |
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| 07:31.40 | romainguy_ | continuation indents are 8 spaces |
| 07:31.44 | romainguy_ | the original file was wrong |
| 07:31.51 | romainguy_ | but while you're at it... :) |
| 07:32.02 | romainguy_ | so 4 more spaces before "mContext.getSystem..." |
| 07:32.11 | romainguy_ | try to see if this updates the change |
| 07:32.14 | muthu | agree, ide's would come out with git support once its used more heavily |
| 07:32.15 | romainguy_ | I haven't reviewed it |
| 07:32.34 | muthu | qgit, giggle, gitgui |
| 07:32.36 | romainguy_ | I'm gonna miss IntelliJ's support for p4 annotate |
| 07:32.43 | jsherman | hmm i thought i saw something else indented 4 |
| 07:32.48 | jsherman | oh ya |
| 07:32.49 | tomgibara | muthu: git is used heavily, only by people who don't use ide's |
| 07:32.54 | jsherman | the existing code is indented 4 |
| 07:32.58 | romainguy_ | jsherman: I know |
| 07:33.02 | jsherman | ah |
| 07:33.03 | jsherman | ok |
| 07:33.08 | geist | gitk is all i use |
| 07:33.10 | romainguy_ | but you modified the line, so you should adapt it to the actual style :)) |
| 07:33.12 | muthu | tomgibara: yeah, we need ide users to get into the git bandwagon |
| 07:33.36 | muthu | myself haven't seen the need for git, until android |
| 07:33.54 | geist | too actually, through swetland |
| 07:33.57 | tomgibara | tomgibara: It's a circular dependency.. many ide users only use what their ide provides |
| 07:34.04 | romainguy_ | as long as I'm not using CVS, I'm happy :) |
| 07:34.35 | jsherman | no |
| 07:34.37 | jsherman | it submitted another one |
| 07:34.40 | romainguy_ | jsherman: hmm ok |
| 07:34.46 | jsherman | i am following the directions in the docs |
| 07:34.47 | romainguy_ | there must be a command to update the change then |
| 07:34.59 | jsherman | it says to use git commit -a --amend |
| 07:35.02 | jsherman | and then re-upload |
| 07:35.22 | tomgibara | jsherman: My understanding is that there's currently no way to update a change submitted by repo |
| 07:35.33 | jsherman | ah |
| 07:35.33 | jsherman | ok |
| 07:35.48 | tomgibara | That's only what I understood from the docs though. |
| 07:36.34 | muthu | you can revert a commit.. but not recommended |
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| 07:38.00 | RyeBrye | does intellij have any decent android plugins yet? |
| 07:38.23 | romainguy_ | nope |
| 07:38.28 | *** join/#android systm (n=systm@c-76-20-23-163.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
| 07:38.38 | RyeBrye | darn. I hate eclipse. |
| 07:38.47 | systm | anyone here know of a PDF reader? |
| 07:38.53 | RyeBrye | Acrobat? |
| 07:39.00 | systm | for android |
| 07:39.04 | RyeBrye | oh. |
| 07:39.14 | romainguy_ | RyeBrye: if that can make you feel better, I use IntelliJ for both Android framework code and personal apps :) |
| 07:39.14 | DarkriftX | systm, multireader? |
| 07:39.18 | systm | aReader is on the Market, but it seems to suck. |
| 07:39.30 | systm | DarkriftX, where do I get that, on market? |
| 07:39.34 | DarkriftX | not sure |
| 07:39.42 | RyeBrye | romainguy - that makes me feel better. now I will go sleep peacefully :) |
| 07:39.44 | DarkriftX | i have a version on my site but id think its on market also |
| 07:40.09 | romainguy_ | RyeBrye: :)) |
| 07:40.17 | systm | DarkriftX, reg? |
| 07:40.21 | muthu | the good thing is.. you don't actually need an android plugin to work with android |
| 07:40.21 | DarkriftX | istration |
| 07:40.42 | muthu | ant seems to be good enough for android |
| 07:41.03 | romainguy_ | RyeBrye: I generate an ant build with activitycreator, then I add the build.xml as an Ant build in IntelliJ |
| 07:41.13 | RyeBrye | cool |
| 07:41.15 | romainguy_ | and I finally bind a shortcut (Ctrl-D) to the reinstall target from that build file |
| 07:41.24 | romainguy_ | so with one key press it builds and deploys the project on my phone |
| 07:41.31 | Cedric_ | romainguy_: you mean IDEA still doesn't doincremental compilation? :\ |
| 07:41.33 | romainguy_ | hardly need a plugin :)) |
| 07:41.42 | RyeBrye | I'll probably do that |
| 07:41.45 | romainguy_ | Cedric_: javac doesnt support it |
| 07:42.01 | romainguy_ | Cedric_: and that suprisingly annoyed me when I left Eclipse, but I really don't care anymore |
| 07:42.03 | Cedric_ | Oh yeah, blame Sun |
| 07:42.46 | romainguy_ | but yeah, it'd be nice to have |
| 07:43.03 | RyeBrye | I prefer maven over ant for most of my projects where I have multiple modules involved - but I guess ant would be good enough for a single application |
| 07:43.23 | gambler | my favourite eclipse feature is when characters im typing suddenly turn into other non-weird characters |
| 07:43.30 | romainguy_ | I find maven way overblown for Android apps |
| 07:43.35 | RyeBrye | Yeah, it probably is |
| 07:43.45 | romainguy_ | I know jasta is using it |
| 07:44.14 | RyeBrye | I do mostly web development and rather large projects - so I use it all the time |
| 07:44.19 | romainguy_ | that makes sense |
| 07:44.46 | RyeBrye | but yeah, scaling back to doing just one thing with one artifact that needs to get built - it would be overkill |
| 07:45.25 | RyeBrye | the only thing nice about it would be the automated running of unit tests and how it has you structure your code by convention in the source - but I could follow the same conventions with ant |
| 07:46.31 | romainguy_ | well activitycreator will give you a project structure |
| 07:46.33 | romainguy_ | the one we use everywhere |
| 07:47.08 | RyeBrye | probably makes sense to follow that convention then :) |
| 07:47.20 | romainguy_ | well some directories |
| 07:47.35 | romainguy_ | are mandatory |
| 07:47.39 | romainguy_ | assets and res for instance |
| 07:47.55 | romainguy_ | you could have them someplace else but the names must be these names |
| 07:48.53 | jasta | except that activitycreator's build system doesn't support automated testing. |
| 07:49.04 | romainguy_ | we could update it easily |
| 07:49.06 | RyeBrye | Yeah, I do love that about maven |
| 07:49.13 | jasta | of course you could add it yourself in a way that doesn't extend to other projects |
| 07:49.22 | RyeBrye | the fact that you have to explictly tell it NOT to run tests is a great feature, imo |
| 07:49.22 | jasta | where meanwhile, Maven supports this already, and in a tidy and centralized way |
| 07:49.55 | romainguy_ | it's funny you like Maven so much when I see so many complaints about it on the web :) |
| 07:50.13 | jasta | so it surprises you that i have my own opinion? |
| 07:50.20 | RyeBrye | lol |
| 07:50.25 | romainguy_ | that's exactly what I said, yes |
| 07:50.31 | romainguy_ | nice deduction jasta :) |
| 07:50.47 | Cedric_ | People start having problems with Maven when they need customized goals |
| 07:51.08 | romainguy_ | Cedric_: I seem to recall that Maven was an easy target for Hani :) |
| 07:51.12 | jasta | i find the Ant approach to fall 1 layer short of being a proper build environment. it's analogous to writing Makefiles by hand, with merely some niceties piled onto it |
| 07:51.19 | Cedric_ | romainguy_: Rightfully so |
| 07:51.40 | tomgibara | I use maven for moseycode, and I've used it several times before - version 2 was a major improvement over the original |
| 07:51.42 | Cedric_ | jasta: I would place ant above makefile but lower level than maven |
| 07:51.55 | Cedric_ | Maven is a great idea with terrible implementation and design |
| 07:52.31 | RyeBrye | maven 2.0.9 works pretty well |
| 07:52.35 | jasta | the other thing i absolutely can't stand about lots of java build systems is that they encourage the developer to distribute the project dependencies. dependency resolution is a problem for distribution, NOT for developers. |
| 07:53.07 | tomgibara | Cedric_: I don't think I'd agree, I think maybe it was too ambitious in its scope to get everything done well |
| 07:53.08 | RyeBrye | I agree... I worked on one OSS project that was a 50 meg download from subvesion - and 48 megs of that was dependencies |
| 07:53.25 | RyeBrye | by worked on I mean I DLed the code, rewrote it in a maven build, and submitted it back to the guy |
| 07:53.34 | RyeBrye | "here's the 2 meg version of your repository" |
| 07:53.34 | romainguy_ | well Android comes with pretty much all the dependencies you need to build it :) |
| 07:53.57 | systm | DarkriftX, is MultiReader App yours? |
| 07:54.01 | DarkriftX | nope |
| 07:54.08 | systm | it doesnt open PDFS. |
| 07:54.13 | tomgibara | For me, managing dependencies is one significant reason for using Maven in large projects |
| 07:54.21 | DarkriftX | i just found screenshots for the last person who replied on that thread so i remembered it |
| 07:54.36 | DarkriftX | oh, i thought it shows a pdf being viewed in the screenshot |
| 07:54.43 | RyeBrye | One cool thing about maven is the extensible build platform it has. In my current project, we are doing flex and java stuff - we use a flex mojo to build and run unit tests on the flex stuff, and then take the compiled swf and put it into our webapp before it gets bundled up |
| 07:54.45 | umdk1d3 | how easy is it for maven to apply a simple patchset to any stuff from other repos? |
| 07:54.48 | systm | it does but it fails |
| 07:55.03 | DarkriftX | really |
| 07:55.13 | DarkriftX | well, its new... |
| 07:55.16 | DarkriftX | lemme look around for you |
| 07:55.45 | tomgibara | umdk1d3: as far as I know, there's nothing built-in to do that |
| 07:55.47 | RyeBrye | umdk1d3 - you mean patch your dependencies? It can't - but if you want to do that you have to rebuild your dependencies anyway - which it can do quite nicely |
| 07:55.49 | jasta | umdk1d3: you'd either find or write a plugin. |
| 07:55.54 | systm | DarkriftX, Yea I know, just to let you know the file is 13.8 |
| 07:55.57 | jasta | umdk1d3: a quick google reveals that such a plugin does exist. |
| 07:55.58 | systm | MBs |
| 07:56.06 | jasta | google search* |
| 07:56.43 | Chicago | I get an error when trying to run 'make' after using repo. I have the same problem as Issue #985 here -> http://code.google.com/p/android/issues/detail?id=985 The problem is, the fix doesn't work for me. |
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| 07:57.12 | RyeBrye | Maven makes me happy. Now I must go sleep. |
| 07:57.49 | RyeBrye | http://blogs.computerworld.com/windows_7_microsofts_linux_killer <-- maybe Android 1.2 should be built on top of Windows 7! ;) |
| 07:58.08 | RyeBrye | (that title is so overly broad it's not even funny) |
| 07:58.19 | jsherman | At the recent PDC, where Windows 7 was unveiled, Windows and Windows Live senior vice president Steve Sinofsky claimed that Windows 7 used less than half of the 1 GB of RAM on his Lenovo S10 netbook |
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| 07:58.34 | Cedric_ | Funny I linked to that article in my latest post: http://beust.com/weblog/archives/000502.html |
| 07:58.39 | Cedric_ | Windows 7 is looking pretty good |
| 07:58.40 | jsherman | he should be embarassed to call that impressive |
| 07:58.57 | Cedric_ | There are some cool UI innovations |
| 07:59.01 | romainguy_ | Cedric_: I like the UI changes |
| 07:59.11 | spikebike | innovations? |
| 07:59.11 | Cedric_ | The window management |
| 07:59.11 | romainguy_ | Cedric_: even though I would have hoped they went even futher |
| 07:59.13 | romainguy_ | further |
| 07:59.31 | jasta | yeah, what "innovations"? :) |
| 07:59.37 | Cedric_ | You maximize by dragging a window to the top |
| 07:59.39 | spikebike | cedric the vertically maxmize on an edge, then return to normal size when you pull it away? |
| 07:59.42 | Cedric_ | minimize like that too when a window is maximized |
| 07:59.49 | jasta | Cedric_: compiz does that now |
| 07:59.53 | Cedric_ | automatic half split when dragging a window to the left or right |
| 07:59.59 | spikebike | jasta ya for some time now |
| 08:00.10 | umdk1d3 | jasta: tomgibara RyeBrye thanks @ maven patching question :) |
| 08:00.16 | Cedric_ | spikebike: sounds right |
| 08:00.31 | jasta | so, actually i have an android question ;) |
| 08:00.33 | DarkriftX | wow systm there really isnt much out there |
| 08:00.44 | Cedric_ | I guess we'll see these features in MacOS in one year or so |
| 08:00.45 | DarkriftX | i searched all my normal sources :( |
| 08:01.19 | romainguy_ | Cedric_: at least this time it's useful features (compared to the Alt-Tab in 3D :) |
| 08:01.20 | jasta | how sophisticated are WifiLocks? specifically, if i acquire one but no wi-fi network is connected, will the lock hold then if some time later wi-fi is connected? |
| 08:01.39 | Cedric_ | agreed, the 3d alt-tab is not very useful, but awesome for dekmos |
| 08:01.47 | romainguy_ | that's basically all it is |
| 08:02.04 | romainguy_ | I actually didn't find it practical considering the improvements they brought to the regular alt-tab |
| 08:02.14 | Cedric_ | If Vista had a decent shell and filesystem, I would dump my Mac in a heartbeat |
| 08:02.31 | romainguy_ | also, I doubt the new window management features will come to Mac OS X |
| 08:02.38 | romainguy_ | the way windows are used is just different |
| 08:02.45 | jasta | when will Microsoft support multiple desktops, I wonder? :) |
| 08:03.05 | Cedric_ | Some of these innovationds would work well for both |
| 08:03.08 | RyeBrye | That would take another 450 MB or ram |
| 08:03.20 | Cedric_ | Having a maxed out window and moving it should always be possible |
| 08:03.38 | romainguy_ | Cedric_: I'll speak from personal experience, but since I switched to Mac OS X, I basically stopped maximizing windows |
| 08:03.41 | gambler | Cedric2, you could just use Cygwin on top of windows |
| 08:03.53 | Cedric_ | gambler: cygwin is not good enough |
| 08:03.55 | jasonparekh_ | jasta: yup, grab a wifi lock and it'll keep it awake (and looking for networks) until you release |
| 08:04.00 | romainguy_ | Cedric_: I very much like the "document as window" approach |
| 08:04.20 | gambler | Cedric2, what exactly do you want? |
| 08:04.21 | romainguy_ | but I'd love to use these new features in my Windows XP :) |
| 08:04.23 | Cedric_ | romainguy_: agree I'm not a big maximizer myself, but I still don't like the document as window fascism |
| 08:04.28 | jasonparekh_ | romainguy_: you dont maximize cause you have a 30inch monitor :) |
| 08:04.28 | Cedric_ | sometimes it's what I want, other times not |
| 08:04.32 | jasta | jasonparekh_: hmm, i might need to add some sophistication for my usage to actually see if the user is on 3G or not. |
| 08:04.44 | romainguy_ | Cedric_: that I can understand, it just works for me |
| 08:05.01 | romainguy_ | jasonparekh_: I started Mac OS X with a 12" Powerbook :) |
| 08:05.07 | jasta | because if their connectivity is < 3G, i'd want to hold a wifilock just arbitrarily i think. |
| 08:05.25 | Cedric_ | Reading and writing text is not practical with maximized windows, but so many people do it... never ceases to surprise me |
| 08:05.31 | romainguy_ | Cedric_: have you tried the new .NET based shell? I really really like it, I just find every command way to complicated to type :) |
| 08:05.47 | jasonparekh_ | jasta: we tear down the data network whenever wifi is up, in most cases |
| 08:05.49 | romainguy_ | Cedric_: helps focus on the task at hand I guess |
| 08:05.55 | Cedric_ | romainguy_: PowerShell? I tried it a bit, very interesting concepts that blow the Unix shells out of the water |
| 08:06.06 | jasonparekh_ | jasta: the exception is for MMS |
| 08:06.13 | romainguy_ | Cedric_: totally agree |
| 08:06.15 | Cedric_ | great for writing shell scripts, still subpar for user interactivity |
| 08:06.23 | romainguy_ | Cedric_: yeah that's what I meant |
| 08:06.25 | jasonparekh_ | jasta: though there may be a public API to keep the mobile data network up, not sure |
| 08:06.29 | romainguy_ | I found it tedious for day to day use |
| 08:06.34 | romainguy_ | but damn, it is very powerful |
| 08:06.37 | gambler | romainguy_, I dont know if you've heard but mono now ships the equivalent of javascript eval for C#... you can make the compiler a library, some awesome features there. |
| 08:06.46 | jasta | jasonparekh_: you mean when you actually get service over wi-fi right? holding a wifilock won't just arbitrarily shut off the cellular data network right? |
| 08:06.52 | Cedric_ | Once you start using it, UNIX pipes look like dinosaurs |
| 08:07.03 | romainguy_ | gambler: it's just like using BeanShell or Groovy in eval mode :) |
| 08:07.10 | romainguy_ | Cedric_: :) |
| 08:07.20 | romainguy_ | Cedric_: like you said, too bad this is not backed by a good file system :p |
| 08:07.21 | jasonparekh_ | tiling window managers rock! |
| 08:07.26 | jasta | jasonparekh_: also, how would GTalk deal with that? with the way wifi works now it would frequently need to reconnect as wifi comes on and goes away |
| 08:07.31 | jasonparekh_ | jasta: right |
| 08:07.55 | jasta | (assuming you shut off the cellular network, i mean) |
| 08:07.56 | jasonparekh_ | jasta: yep, gtalk (and other background network srevices) listen for connectivity changes and reconnect accordingly |
| 08:08.33 | jasta | hmm, that doesn't seem efficient to me without some logic in place to detect a minimum threshold and reconnect only if below it. |
| 08:08.57 | jasta | but i guess if the mobile network shuts off for wi-fi then there's nothing you could do. |
| 08:09.26 | jasta | that just seems really abrupt to me. would connections just fail immediately when wi-fi comes on? |
| 08:09.31 | jasonparekh_ | jasta: yeah, that's the bottleneck. our revamped connection manager will be much smarter about managing the different interfaces |
| 08:09.54 | jasonparekh_ | jasta: hm, they wouldn't fail because they'd be going over wifi? |
| 08:10.24 | jasta | jasonparekh_: i thought you were saying that when wi-fi is on, the mobile data network is disabled. so my question was when wi-fi comes on, would all existing connections immediately fail? |
| 08:10.48 | jasta | or does the radio not really shut off, it just is no longer the dfeault route? |
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| 08:11.11 | jasonparekh_ | jasta: sorry, I meant when wifi is connected to an AP, the mobile data is torn down. |
| 08:11.33 | jasta | yeah that's what i meant by "wi-fi is on" in that case. |
| 08:11.47 | jasonparekh_ | yup |
| 08:11.56 | jasta | so existing connections would fail immediately then? |
| 08:12.01 | jasonparekh_ | yes |
| 08:12.05 | jasta | ok, interesting |
| 08:12.22 | jasonparekh_ | there may be some small overlapping period, but for the most case that's how it works |
| 08:13.28 | Chicago | Before make'ing Android. Is there a build environment variable I can set for my java virtual machine? I keep getting this error "make: *** No rule to make target `run-java-tool', needed by `out/target/common/docs/framework-timestamp'. Stop." |
| 08:13.48 | jasta | jasonparekh_: how heavy is holding the wifi radio on? |
| 08:13.56 | romainguy_ | Chicago: do you have javac & stuff in your PATH? |
| 08:14.12 | jasta | i understand it as being more efficient than the mobile data network for almost every case, so it would really be pretty light to keep on |
| 08:14.31 | jasonparekh_ | jasta: it's more expensive than mobile data networks |
| 08:14.41 | jasonparekh_ | jasta: especially if there's some amount of broadcast traffic |
| 08:15.01 | jasta | my music player app needs to stream music a lot, but it does work just fine over 3G. so i was thinking of holding a wifi lock if the mobile data network is less than 3G speeds. |
| 08:15.17 | jasta | but that might not be smart |
| 08:15.44 | umdk1d3 | im curious if it keeps lat/lon of ssids youve connected to in the past, and it maybe reduces its scan frequency when outside of areas with previously connected networks |
| 08:15.57 | jasta | maybe i could use a wifilock only if it detects your are connected |
| 08:16.10 | jasta | and if you lose connectivity, release the wifilock |
| 08:16.13 | tomgibara | I'm hazy on the conditions under which it's sensible to retry a failed http connection. |
| 08:16.18 | jasta | by connected, i mean associated with an AP. |
| 08:16.37 | jasta | tomgibara: look for the DownloadProvider in the source tree. it's got very sophisticated logic for this. |
| 08:16.44 | jasonparekh_ | jasta: so having the chipset on, but not associated is okay |
| 08:16.48 | tomgibara | jasta: Thanks for the tip |
| 08:16.54 | umdk1d3 | it would be awesome if someone wrote an app to turn off wifi automatically when you leave areas that youve defined, like you home or office |
| 08:17.04 | umdk1d3 | or turn off bluetooth if you havent used it in last 15-mins or something |
| 08:17.08 | umdk1d3 | pokes locale team |
| 08:17.15 | Chicago | romainguy_: First, I think its because /usr/bin/java is a symlink to run-java-tool. But javac is in /usr/bin which is in my path. This is $PATH of my user which tries to run make -> http://rafb.net/p/JYClVf20.html |
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| 08:17.28 | jasta | i actually would prefer to be able to have wifi off always, but at my house T-Mobile only gives me EDGE and my app doesnt work at all over EDGE |
| 08:17.35 | jasta | so its hard to play with it / test :\ |
| 08:17.42 | romainguy_ | Chicago: what JDK are you using? Sun's? |
| 08:17.57 | Chicago | Yes |
| 08:18.45 | tomgibara | umdk1d3: I just can't see these things being generally practical with GPS/network based location finding. |
| 08:19.49 | jasonparekh_ | jasta: so, just to make sure I'm thinking about the same scenario as you. screen is off (otherwise wifi chipset is on, looking for networks). if user is on EDGE, you want to grab wifi lock indefinitely, so you can switch over once he comes in range? |
| 08:19.58 | jasta | umdk1d3: well, wi-fi is off when the phone sleeps for a little while |
| 08:20.13 | tomgibara | My experience with the G1 to date is that, around where I live, network location accuracy is typically about 1km, and you have almost no chance of GPS working indoors. |
| 08:20.29 | jasta | jasonparekh_: i want the wifilock so that the system can use wifi when it needs data, which is likely pretty often but not constant. |
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| 08:21.28 | Chicago | romainguy_: The package is dev-java/sun-jdk-1.5.0.16 |
| 08:21.43 | jasonparekh_ | jasta: ok.. the background scan can get expensive if it's always doign it (even when screen is off), so I'd suggest grabbing wifi lock, allow it to check for networks, and release if it doesn't connect |
| 08:21.47 | jasta | tomgibara: GPS doesn't work indoors because of its design. it needs line of sight to the sky, basically. |
| 08:21.49 | romainguy_ | I asked cause I see a bunch of blackdown JDKs in your path |
| 08:22.36 | jasta | jasonparekh_: yeah, that sounds like a good strategy. that way if the user turns the screen on wifi will return in either case and my apps check for connectivity can happen again |
| 08:22.43 | tomgibara | jasta: Doesn't seem universally true, it does work inside my mother's house for example - one window can be enough it seems. |
| 08:23.15 | jasta | tomgibara: what i meant was, it isn't expected to work indoors. |
| 08:23.43 | jasta | so if it ever does, it's a fluke :) |
| 08:25.05 | Chicago | romainguy_: With gentoo, there is a setup for virtual/jdk installs. I have 1.4, 1.5, and 1.6 available. Both the system-vm and user-vm are set to sun-jdk-1.5. |
| 08:25.13 | tomgibara | jasta: Yes. My broader point is that I don't see how all of these location based services are expecting to work well using only phone's location hardware. |
| 08:25.24 | romainguy_ | Chicago: what do you get when you type javac --version? |
| 08:25.36 | jasta | tomgibara: well, the phone can use google's "my location", which doesn't use GPS |
| 08:25.50 | jasta | and it can also use wi-fi hotspot identification to determine location (which it does seem to do?) |
| 08:26.10 | Chicago | romainguy_: 'javac -version' reports "javac 1.5.0_16" and then gives the usage information. |
| 08:26.18 | jasta | google's "my location" is based on cell tower identification, so that will work just about anywhere with strong service |
| 08:26.28 | romainguy_ | Chicago: then I have no idea :) |
| 08:26.44 | jasonparekh_ | wi-fi-based location is pretty amazing |
| 08:26.44 | romainguy_ | jasta: and where we do have the location of the cells :) |
| 08:26.58 | tomgibara | jasta: As I commented above, network location is only accurate to within roughly 1km where I live |
| 08:27.09 | jasta | romainguy_: right, but you guys get that for major cities by just driving around, right? |
| 08:27.19 | romainguy_ | I don't know how we get the data |
| 08:27.28 | jasta | tomgibara: right, but for Locale and such, 1km is probably enough |
| 08:27.36 | jasta | for instance, my work is not within 1km of anywhere else i go except work :) |
| 08:28.09 | gambler | every country's version of the FCC publishes that data, or at least they did before it became evil terrorist information |
| 08:28.12 | tomgibara | jasta: In America where things are more spread out, maybe 1km is enough |
| 08:28.47 | tomgibara | I think its an open question for the urban areas of western Europe |
| 08:29.04 | jasta | well, those services are not intended to work everywhere for everyone. |
| 08:29.14 | jasta | and i think there are lots of apps that have that caveat |
| 08:29.30 | jasta | for instance, my app will be pointless for anyone without a strong 3G network all around them |
| 08:29.35 | jasta | nearly everywhere they go |
| 08:29.46 | jasta | that condition is true for me, and that's why i wrote it :) |
| 08:29.55 | tomgibara | naturally, I've almost finished my location based app, and I make the same caveats |
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| 08:40.51 | Chicago | romainguy_: Dang man... I finally figured it out. I misread the info on the download page and explicitly set ANDROID_JAVA_HOME in my environment to /opt/sun-jdk-1.5.0.16.... but I was supposed to set it literally to "$JAVA_HOME"... |
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| 08:45.24 | lethalcode | Any reason I might be getting a Resources.NotFoundException error when the resources are there? ... |
| 08:45.36 | lethalcode | I have res.openRawResourceFd(R.raw.words). |
| 08:45.47 | lethalcode | res/raw/words.txt is there, and it's listed inside R.java as well. |
| 08:45.58 | lethalcode | The message from the error reads, oddly: |
| 08:46.16 | lethalcode | "File res/raw/words.txt from drawable resource ID #0x7f040000" |
| 08:47.47 | tric | lethalcode: is i words.txt, or maybe Words.txt? |
| 08:48.05 | lethalcode | tric: words.txt |
| 08:48.14 | lethalcode | res/ doesn't allow upper case characters. |
| 08:48.51 | umdk1d3 | its odd that it thinks its a drawable |
| 08:49.14 | lethalcode | umdk1d3: My thoughts exactly. |
| 08:49.56 | jasonparekh_ | lethalcode: do a getCause() on the exception |
| 08:50.16 | jasonparekh_ | lethalcode: looking at the code, it caches any exception and re-throws it with that drawable message |
| 08:50.26 | lethalcode | Doing so. |
| 08:50.45 | jasonparekh_ | catches* |
| 08:51.24 | lethalcode | "This file can not be opened as a file descriptor; it is probably compressed" |
| 08:51.46 | lethalcode | mumbles a bit. Gotta use openRawResource, then, it seems. |
| 08:52.54 | lethalcode | also mumbles at BufferedInputStream not having readLine. |
| 08:53.56 | lethalcode | Okay, thanks, getCause() set me on my way. |
| 08:54.24 | tomgibara | mumbles back that BufferedReader has such a method |
| 08:55.16 | lethalcode | That's why I was using openRawResourceFd. |
| 08:55.32 | lethalcode | I may be missing something, but InputStream can't be passed to BufferedReader. |
| 08:55.39 | tomgibara | Wrap a Reader round it |
| 08:55.40 | systm | DarkriftX, did you find a reader? |
| 08:55.51 | tomgibara | InputStreamReader |
| 08:56.17 | lethalcode | I just found that. Thanks, I feel like an idiot now ;). |
| 08:58.44 | lethalcode | And now another one: |
| 08:58.50 | lethalcode | Data exceeds UNCOMPRESS_DATA_MAX |
| 08:59.36 | lethalcode | Guess I'll split it into several separate files. |
| 08:59.45 | umdk1d3 | yea i had to split stuff to be under 1mb |
| 08:59.51 | romainguy_ | makes me fear the size of your apk :) |
| 09:00.07 | lethalcode | romainguy_: 512k. I'm making a word game, and using the ENABLE word list. |
| 09:00.44 | romainguy_ | I want someone to port Lumines and Meteos to Android :) |
| 09:02.00 | umdk1d3 | hmm gameloft has written a port of lunines, and they have android people |
| 09:02.07 | romainguy_ | sweet |
| 09:02.10 | romainguy_ | can't wait |
| 09:02.24 | jasta | i find that i really enjoy MisMisMatch |
| 09:03.26 | lethalcode | A'ight. G'night, guys, and thanks for the help =). |
| 09:03.40 | jasta | never even heard of it before android |
| 09:04.13 | umdk1d3 | ohcrap "On the first Sunday in November, clocks are set back one hour at 2:00 a.m. local daylight time, which becomes 1:00 a.m. local standard time." |
| 09:04.41 | jasta | you didnt know it was daylight savings time? :) |
| 09:04.50 | umdk1d3 | wait, i think my zonefile might have automatically changed it for me |
| 09:04.56 | muthu | you get an extra hour of tv watching ;) |
| 09:05.01 | umdk1d3 | i thought it felt later than it was |
| 09:05.04 | geist | yeah, welcome to the hour you lost in march |
| 09:05.31 | umdk1d3 | yay its MST instead of MDT now ^.^ |
| 09:06.16 | Adamant | computers usually do it automatically if they have the right patch for current DST setup and not the old one |
| 09:06.31 | jasta | also, linux machines typically do it as a function of ntp. |
| 09:06.45 | Adamant | well, all major OS's |
| 09:07.03 | umdk1d3 | i thought it was based on the time interpritation instructions in /etc/localtime |
| 09:07.14 | Adamant | it is usually |
| 09:12.16 | *** join/#android pjv (n=pjv@91.178.23.137) |
| 09:12.42 | *** join/#android anno^da_ (n=anno^da@p5492FC78.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 09:14.27 | spikebike | weird |
| 09:14.35 | spikebike | my g1's clock at the top say 1:32 |
| 09:14.45 | spikebike | but the lock screen says 1:16 |
| 09:22.42 | geist | yeah, mine is whacked out too |
| 09:22.52 | geist | says it's 1:44 on the lock screen (it's 1:22) |
| 09:23.13 | *** join/#android coding (n=steelgun@0x63.nat.tushino.com) |
| 09:23.14 | geist | oh well, actually worse than that. says it's 1:44 even once i log in |
| 09:23.29 | spikebike | powercycle fixed mine |
| 09:23.33 | spikebike | both now read corrct |
| 09:24.04 | geist | did it get out of whack before the time zone change? |
| 09:25.28 | geist | oh weird |
| 09:25.30 | geist | it's not moving |
| 09:25.36 | geist | it's stuck at 1:44 |
| 09:26.35 | geist | i betcha it's a display bug |
| 09:26.44 | geist | system time moved back, but the title bar got confused |
| 09:26.48 | geist | so it wont update itself or something |
| 09:27.04 | geist | i betcha when it gets to be 1:44 it'll pick up and start updating |
| 09:27.27 | geist | and the first 1:44 was the last time it updated |
| 09:38.55 | jsherman | does g1 have bluetooth? |
| 09:39.39 | jsherman | if not, clock problems night be same as in emulator |
| 09:43.08 | *** join/#android winfield (n=winfield@221.12.10.218) |
| 09:44.50 | jasta | jsherman: it has bluetooth. |
| 09:45.02 | jsherman | ok nm then |
| 10:01.53 | geist | yep, it resolved itself as it hit 1:44 |
| 10:03.39 | *** join/#android coding (n=steelgun@0x63.nat.tushino.com) |
| 10:05.42 | *** join/#android anno^da_ (n=anno^da@p5492DCF3.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 10:14.10 | spikebike | ah so |
| 10:14.24 | spikebike | it only updates when time > display time |
| 10:14.55 | geist | yeah |
| 10:15.43 | geist | i can just imagine the bug. it's probably something like in most cases the time is set from the java level, so the menu gets the update |
| 10:16.01 | geist | but this is the one case where the os will set it from underneath java |
| 10:16.10 | geist | and so it doesn't catch the change, etc |
| 10:17.40 | *** join/#android Dialekt (n=Carter@cpe-98-148-99-126.socal.res.rr.com) |
| 10:22.28 | eleftherios | has anyone managed to use a G1 without creating/using a Google account? |
| 10:22.49 | Dialekt | boooo |
| 10:25.57 | spikebike | do you have religious objections? |
| 10:27.34 | eleftherios | no, I just don't want to create an account. I don't need it, I have my own mail server etc. |
| 10:27.50 | languish | eleftherios "it doesn't work that way" |
| 10:28.13 | languish | it's a "t-mobile g1 *with google*" |
| 10:28.22 | languish | welcome to the cloud |
| 10:28.31 | eleftherios | It is *my* hardware |
| 10:28.34 | eleftherios | I paid for it |
| 10:28.49 | eleftherios | and I have a right to use in any way I want |
| 10:29.09 | eleftherios | :-) |
| 10:29.10 | Dialekt | should i grab a g1 tomorrow ? |
| 10:29.12 | languish | you paid for a locked down piece of technology. if you figure out how to get around the locked down part... |
| 10:29.26 | Dialekt | locked down piece of technology? |
| 10:29.28 | Dialekt | NO |
| 10:29.31 | Dialekt | I PAID FOR ONE OF THOSE |
| 10:29.37 | Dialekt | STUPID iPhonian in my hands |
| 10:29.37 | Dialekt | :9 |
| 10:29.50 | Dialekt | languish: happy with your g1 yet ? |
| 10:30.12 | languish | Dialekt, still mixed feeling, but i do find it to be very entertaining all around |
| 10:30.18 | languish | +s |
| 10:30.59 | languish | my wife likes it |
| 10:31.05 | Dialekt | mixed feelings in comparison to another device or to what you were "expecting" ??? |
| 10:31.10 | languish | but she's *really* annoyed with t-mobile |
| 10:31.26 | languish | due to the constant service outages |
| 10:32.18 | languish | well there are things I like about the G1, and things I don't |
| 10:32.24 | languish | the camera is practically useless to me |
| 10:32.24 | Dialekt | hmm.. |
| 10:32.34 | Dialekt | yeah .. ive been spoiled by cameras |
| 10:32.41 | Dialekt | hence using nokias for a very long time |
| 10:32.47 | Dialekt | everything else is useless in comparison |
| 10:32.49 | languish | even with the awesome apps that use the camera, I couldn't use them in a number of situations due to poor lighting |
| 10:32.58 | Dialekt | i really need to grab a camera on its own |
| 10:33.02 | languish | the camera is crap |
| 10:33.03 | Dialekt | im sick of phone cameras |
| 10:33.05 | Dialekt | and tweaking |
| 10:33.40 | spikebike | is very happy with the g1... and even the camera |
| 10:34.00 | languish | now, I get a real kick out of the market, and seein the new apps pop up, and reading all the hilarious comments |
| 10:34.10 | languish | except for the spam and the "firsts" |
| 10:34.24 | spikebike | I was reading during a dog walk and kept opening new browser windows |
| 10:34.34 | spikebike | I was impressed on how well it handled them |
| 10:34.35 | *** join/#android coding1 (n=steelgun@0x63.nat.tushino.com) |
| 10:35.05 | languish | yes, I'm happy with the browser, at least WHEN it remembers addresses and when I have 3g, which has been about 3 or 4 days out of 7 |
| 10:35.51 | spikebike | heh |
| 10:35.52 | languish | I'll live with the 3g hardware for a few months |
| 10:35.57 | languish | until a better device comes along |
| 10:36.01 | spikebike | I don't mind it on edge, I was kinda surprised how fast edge is |
| 10:36.12 | languish | oh, edge would have even been nice |
| 10:36.16 | spikebike | I guess I shouldn't be surprised, the original iphone folks sounded pretty happy |
| 10:36.26 | languish | today, and the other day, we even lost voice service for hours |
| 10:36.32 | spikebike | wow, where are you? |
| 10:36.35 | languish | nyc |
| 10:36.51 | languish | it worked on our razr's, not on our g1's. yay tmo |
| 10:37.00 | spikebike | strang |
| 10:37.00 | spikebike | e |
| 10:37.11 | spikebike | I did hear about folks having their g1 on "free" data for 1 week |
| 10:37.14 | languish | it wasn't isolated to us, some web forums are full of customers complaining about the same thing |
| 10:37.22 | spikebike | but then it expired and requires readding the data |
| 10:37.27 | spikebike | all in nyc? |
| 10:37.33 | languish | yeah |
| 10:37.44 | languish | different areas across the city |
| 10:38.26 | Dialekt | man |
| 10:38.31 | Dialekt | i really wanna give that device a shot |
| 10:38.34 | Dialekt | more so than the storm |
| 10:38.39 | languish | Dialekt, it's worth playing with |
| 10:38.40 | Dialekt | but the storm is just gonna bulletproof |
| 10:38.42 | languish | it's a fun device |
| 10:38.44 | Dialekt | as most blackberries are |
| 10:38.48 | languish | android is nice, if still very much a beta |
| 10:38.50 | Dialekt | but i know what to expect with a blackberry |
| 10:38.59 | languish | but they really shouldn't be selling the G1 at retail |
| 10:39.07 | Dialekt | yeah but i wonder what's so new about it |
| 10:39.09 | languish | it's just not well rounded enough yet |
| 10:39.15 | Dialekt | like in comparison to other devices |
| 10:39.17 | Dialekt | hmm.. |
| 10:39.18 | Dialekt | i see |
| 10:39.26 | languish | the screen is very nice |
| 10:39.33 | languish | the method of swiveling the screen is nice |
| 10:40.00 | languish | having the trackball is a very nice addition to touch screen and the keybaord |
| 10:40.14 | languish | the keyboard I could take or leave.. it's functional, but the htc touch pro's is much better |
| 10:40.32 | *** join/#android phyburn (n=df3nfkx@pool-71-105-25-159.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net) |
| 10:40.51 | languish | the OS is nice and snappy, good response |
| 10:41.01 | languish | it has upseides and down |
| 10:41.18 | phyburn | I'm trying to make a game clock, and I was able to create it in java today but I didn't think android wouldn't have ActionListeners. What should I use instead? |
| 10:41.36 | languish | the downs will most likely be fixed with future revisions, but the device overall right now, isn't to be relied on as a day to day phone |
| 10:41.47 | Dialekt | yeah but what other devices |
| 10:41.51 | Dialekt | have u been using? |
| 10:42.01 | Dialekt | would u rather go back to them only for stability> |
| 10:42.02 | Dialekt | ? |
| 10:42.06 | languish | touch pro, some other winmo's |
| 10:42.10 | Dialekt | or can u live with its current shortcomings? |
| 10:42.13 | spikebike | languish that seems pretty strong |
| 10:42.22 | spikebike | I've definitely had worse phones |
| 10:42.24 | languish | it's my opinion |
| 10:42.38 | languish | between mine, my wife's, and our neighbors that have the G1 |
| 10:42.53 | spikebike | heh my wife and 2 friends have them |
| 10:43.04 | spikebike | and one of their wives |
| 10:43.05 | languish | it's kinda cool, we like it, but it's not ready for prime time. too many little glitches, like the email problems |
| 10:43.11 | jasta | i can't even fathom choosing any WinMo phone over the G1. |
| 10:43.13 | languish | my wife likes it |
| 10:43.16 | languish | but she's frustrated with it |
| 10:43.23 | spikebike | oh? with what? |
| 10:43.23 | jasta | i have been a windows mobile user for years and its miserably bad |
| 10:43.32 | spikebike | the 2 wives seem pleased |
| 10:43.41 | languish | my wife's more techy than most |
| 10:43.52 | languish | then again, in this company.. who knows |
| 10:43.56 | spikebike | I expected worse considering how new the platform is, crashes and the like |
| 10:44.06 | languish | well we do get crashes |
| 10:44.19 | languish | rather it turns off and doesn't turn back on until the battery's removed |
| 10:44.25 | spikebike | wow |
| 10:44.29 | languish | (and replaced) |
| 10:44.32 | spikebike | I've not seen that |
| 10:44.38 | languish | lucky us :) |
| 10:44.40 | jasta | neither have i. |
| 10:44.51 | jasta | mine has been running since the day i got it |
| 10:45.12 | languish | cool |
| 10:45.14 | jasta | well, that's not true, i did have to hard reset it when i discovered some irritating shortcoming with package signing :) |
| 10:45.15 | spikebike | I use mine pretty hard as well |
| 10:45.20 | phyburn | what do you use instead of Actionlisteners? |
| 10:45.20 | languish | I've heard up and down stories from all sides |
| 10:45.38 | spikebike | languish I'm definitely interested in your experience |
| 10:46.24 | spikebike | I'd say in general if you drink the coolaid, use gmail, like gmaps, don't mind managing contacts on google's servers it's a pretty good all around phone |
| 10:46.38 | languish | my own experience is that mostly due to t-mobile, partially due to htc, and becuase of some of the shortcomings of android needing a little more maturity, it's not a ready for primetime device. It should have been released AS a beta, or sold directly to dev's first |
| 10:46.39 | spikebike | not as slick and polished as an iphone |
| 10:46.50 | spikebike | (although much more functional in various ways) |
| 10:46.50 | languish | spikebike, I drink the coolaid |
| 10:47.19 | languish | I just don't turn into an evangelist because I drank the cool aid. I turn in to an evangelist because I'm wowed by the product |
| 10:47.20 | spikebike | languish sure, just sharing my thoughts as well, not trying to speak fo rya |
| 10:47.33 | spikebike | so it doesn't do imap as well as others |
| 10:47.38 | languish | heh dude |
| 10:50.33 | jasta | spikebike: i'm working on that ;) |
| 10:50.35 | spikebike | doesn't do irc at all |
| 10:50.35 | spikebike | doesnt' have a great ebook reader |
| 10:50.35 | languish | it spammed a friend of mine with 8 messaged WHILE I was composing 1 |
| 10:50.35 | spikebike | languish ya, I remember reading about that |
| 10:50.35 | languish | basically sending during the composing |
| 10:50.35 | spikebike | via imap? |
| 10:50.35 | languish | nutty |
| 10:50.35 | spikebike | or gmail? |
| 10:50.35 | languish | spikebike, yeah |
| 10:50.35 | languish | no not gmail |
| 10:50.35 | languish | the gmail app, the gchat, works perfectly |
| 10:50.35 | spikebike | see the cool aide ;-) |
| 10:50.35 | languish | :) |
| 10:50.35 | languish | except some of us have to use other addys |
| 10:50.36 | jasta | i am quite familiar with the Email apps code base at this point and i can tell you there are lots of bugs in it |
| 10:50.36 | jasta | it was a rushed app |
| 10:50.36 | languish | and infact, it was a secong gmail addy that was being used, int he email app |
| 10:50.36 | spikebike | yeah I'm pretty impressed with gchat, it basically removes my need for sms |
| 10:50.36 | jasta | but it is well written none-the-less, and easily fixed. |
| 10:50.36 | languish | whicht he email app auto-set up for imap |
| 10:50.36 | spikebike | jasta yeah, seemed like google wanted to wait till 2009 |
| 10:50.36 | spikebike | but tmo wanted to roll it out with 3g so they cut some corners |
| 10:50.36 | jasta | spikebike: i've been hacking extensively on the Email app for the past week |
| 10:50.36 | spikebike | jasta yeah, I've been following. Got idle working yet? |
| 10:50.36 | languish | tmo wasn't ready to roll out with 3g |
| 10:50.36 | languish | they still aren't |
| 10:50.37 | spikebike | heh, well they are.... for some cities |
| 10:50.37 | languish | perhaps |
| 10:50.37 | languish | not in nyc |
| 10:50.37 | spikebike | but yeah there's some issues along the way |
| 10:50.37 | jasta | spikebike: i've had it working for a week, but i'm rewriting my support to be optimal |
| 10:50.37 | spikebike | sacramento hasn't had any isuses I know of |
| 10:50.37 | spikebike | jasta that kind of thing warms my soul |
| 10:50.37 | jasta | spikebike: my first crack at it was just a lame hack. right now i'm doing major surgery. |
| 10:50.43 | spikebike | actually improving a build in app, imagine that... why can't anyone else allowing that |
| 10:50.47 | languish | I'm used to tmo doing this, but I'm not used to not having voice service for over an hours (in this case half the day, again) |
| 10:50.47 | jasta | i'm wrapping up the first set of changes though. |
| 10:51.05 | spikebike | languish that's out of control.. I wonder if the story will come out |
| 10:51.07 | languish | previously, when they had their edge rollout, and back in 2000 when they transitioned from voicestream |
| 10:51.22 | languish | months of headaches, but short lived each one |
| 10:51.23 | spikebike | heh my previous phone (that the g1 replaced) was bought from AT&T |
| 10:51.35 | spikebike | but spent 100% on tmo... and always reported voicestream |
| 10:51.48 | languish | heh |
| 10:51.54 | chris_debian | Guys, I haven't got my G1 yet, but was wondering how the software gets updated (in light of the past comments). What I mean is, will the updates be automatic, like on most GNU/Linux distros? |
| 10:52.14 | languish | chris_debian, yes it's automatic, over the air. |
| 10:52.15 | jasta | chris_debian: the updates are pestering, not automatic. |
| 10:52.28 | spikebike | well they download automatially |
| 10:52.35 | spikebike | but don't apply till approved (right?) |
| 10:53.01 | chris_debian | Cheers, guys. So it looks like these initial buggy bits will get worked out and be applied fairly quickly. |
| 10:53.02 | jasta | chris_debian: and the commits likely will be built up into a 1.1 stable release and then updated. no small incremental changes will make it in surely. |
| 10:53.25 | chris_debian | Cool. |
| 10:54.52 | languish | chris_debian, the software side should be juuust fine after a few updates |
| 10:55.08 | languish | which my guess is will take a number of months to come |
| 10:55.30 | languish | just don't expect to take decent pics under anything but decent sunlight |
| 10:55.56 | chris_debian | Well my current contract ends in December, so things may be a bit better then. It still sounds like the device is much more mature than Openmoko. |
| 10:56.03 | swetland | jasta: yeah, the nature of carrier acceptance means that doing rapid/continuous updates is difficult |
| 10:56.17 | Dialekt | i really am torn between the g1, going back to symbian, or the storm |
| 10:56.24 | Dialekt | i kinda hate using my iPhone.. |
| 10:56.30 | swetland | critical/security fixes are likely to see a fast track, most other stuff bundled into periodic updates |
| 10:56.36 | Dialekt | all though a variety of features are just a software update away |
| 10:56.45 | Dialekt | i dont think apple has the balls to give us what we want |
| 10:56.48 | Dialekt | so that's out |
| 10:58.19 | spikebike | chris_debian way way more mature than openmoko |
| 10:59.17 | spikebike | dialekt big advantages over iphone: multitasking, cut/paste, MMS, and filltime gtalk |
| 10:59.22 | languish | as long as you don't *need* the g1 for windows environment specific backend connectivity at this time, or the camera, I'd say get the G1 for the fun of it |
| 10:59.35 | chris_debian | I'd been waiting to get my Openmoko, but it's come to the crunch, and apparently Openmoko has terrible call quality, and that's just not acceptable on a telephone! Shame, as I liked the openness of the project. |
| 10:59.40 | Dialekt | windows environment? |
| 10:59.42 | Dialekt | i use a mac |
| 10:59.53 | languish | then you're fine :) |
| 10:59.55 | Dialekt | i do like the symbian platform.. |
| 10:59.57 | Dialekt | though |
| 11:00.05 | Dialekt | mainly because of the extreme hardware |
| 11:00.10 | Dialekt | but their logic is retarded |
| 11:00.14 | languish | but I said windows *back end*.. usng exchange server.. etc |
| 11:00.18 | Dialekt | or just not logical. |
| 11:00.38 | jasta | languish: we use Exchange at work but i wouldnt say anyone needs integration with it. just set up your outlook calendar to sync with google calendar and then hook up IMAP for e-mail |
| 11:00.43 | Dialekt | ooo exchange server options can be crucial but since I havent used them in such a long time ..push is not mandatory |
| 11:01.00 | languish | jasta, depends on your company policies |
| 11:01.01 | spikebike | I crashed 3 different distributions at linuxworld (on the openmoko) |
| 11:01.03 | Dialekt | any missing entries/fields you wish that gmail had? |
| 11:01.18 | jasta | languish: you mean if they don't allow IMAP? well, bonehead IT people should be bitchslapped into submission. |
| 11:01.22 | Dialekt | i don't want any missing info if I synced with google. |
| 11:01.44 | languish | jasta, or if they don't allow you to sync with google calendar either :P |
| 11:01.53 | jasta | the solution is the same |
| 11:02.00 | languish | 'eh, not always so simple |
| 11:02.17 | spikebike | the g1 is way better hardware. 3G, quad band, keyboard, better battery life, more reliable, etc. |
| 11:02.18 | languish | Dialekt, zero issues witht he calendar app on my end |
| 11:02.26 | jasta | i am an IT person, and yes i know that convincing other lesser admins of things can be difficult |
| 11:02.36 | Dialekt | what about contacts |
| 11:02.43 | jasta | but it can be done, if you sufficiently prove that they are retarded :) |
| 11:03.00 | jasta | Dialekt: contacts can work the same way if you want. just make outlook do it. |
| 11:03.00 | spikebike | dialekt it's kinda lame. Gmail.com allows editing grouping contacts |
| 11:03.11 | spikebike | but the g1 just has a big list, it auto-syncs if you want |
| 11:03.58 | Dialekt | ? |
| 11:03.58 | Dialekt | grouping contacts? |
| 11:03.59 | languish | jasta, it's not just the admins. it's the executives that have external security auditing going on and use their recommendations to enforce controls on IT |
| 11:03.59 | Dialekt | meaning contact groups etc? |
| 11:03.59 | Dialekt | distribution lists like on blackberry? |
| 11:04.23 | spikebike | dialekt say you have a group for friends, one for family, one for work |
| 11:04.43 | spikebike | not mailing list, just grouping for ease of finding em |
| 11:05.00 | Dialekt | yeah |
| 11:05.06 | Dialekt | and there's ONE BIG LIST on g1? |
| 11:05.07 | Dialekt | wtf? |
| 11:05.14 | spikebike | yeah, seems a little rushed |
| 11:05.21 | swetland | I actually the app knows about groups |
| 11:05.27 | swetland | and you can choose which group you want to see |
| 11:05.31 | spikebike | oh you can? |
| 11:05.34 | spikebike | checks |
| 11:05.36 | swetland | but there's no local ui, so you have to setup groups using the web stuff |
| 11:05.42 | swetland | which is unfortunate |
| 11:05.52 | swetland | there's a "view which group" menu option |
| 11:06.06 | languish | hah nice new app in the Market |
| 11:06.13 | languish | use the phone as a level |
| 11:07.11 | spikebike | takes it back |
| 11:07.17 | spikebike | swetland thanks |
| 11:07.33 | spikebike | and it doesn't bother me that you have to create them on the web |
| 11:07.34 | languish | ah which reminds me. if you need a specific app *now* to function well, for example.. you need a fully featured video player.. then wait on the g1. it has a basic video play, it works, I use it, but it has some useability issues, needs polish. |
| 11:08.13 | languish | if you can wait for updates to it, great, but for certain tasks, you may need to wait until you, or someone else, develops the app to satisfy them |
| 11:08.40 | languish | if you can't wait for something another device does that the g1 doesn't "yet" then wait |
| 11:09.02 | languish | if you're a dev, get it anyway and code for it, your efforts will be worth it |
| 11:09.56 | spikebike | with that said, even if you write nothing it's a very useful phone.. not yet an awesome mp3 player, movie player, etc... |
| 11:10.33 | jasta | yay, my new patch is so far 1300 lines :) |
| 11:10.34 | Dialekt | dunno |
| 11:10.39 | jasta | and there's still more to do |
| 11:10.39 | languish | heh |
| 11:10.43 | Dialekt | what about for everyday use |
| 11:10.48 | Dialekt | for a text messaging whore like me? |
| 11:10.50 | spikebike | it's fine (IMO) |
| 11:10.50 | swetland | spikebike: I'd prefer that there were local UI. Hopefully we'll fix that ^^ |
| 11:10.54 | Dialekt | i use the web all the time.. |
| 11:10.59 | Dialekt | i use irc often.. |
| 11:11.03 | languish | for text messaging it's fine, as long as you have service... |
| 11:11.05 | Dialekt | i use AIM RELIGIOUSLY |
| 11:11.13 | languish | aim it's less hot on |
| 11:11.14 | spikebike | no irc client afaik, but there is ssh |
| 11:11.19 | languish | move to gchat |
| 11:11.27 | spikebike | I use gtalk which I like, which does aim, but I don't use it that way |
| 11:11.30 | spikebike | er gchat |
| 11:11.39 | spikebike | try the googlegadget, its' very similar |
| 11:11.43 | languish | gchat is the bees knees |
| 11:11.58 | spikebike | dialekt you can try the simulator, it's a decent representation |
| 11:12.16 | spikebike | yeah I like gchat over SMS because it's free, and it works over wifi and cellular |
| 11:13.54 | eleftherios | ah, http://www.oblomovka.com/wp/2008/11/01/confirmed-by-android-team-g1-only-accepts-firmware-signed-by-manufacturer/ |
| 11:13.55 | Dialekt | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tGTUmUTQsdU |
| 11:13.57 | Dialekt | whoo ho |
| 11:14.08 | Dialekt | gchat sucks |
| 11:14.17 | Dialekt | simulator doesn't mac worky |
| 11:14.29 | Dialekt | gchat doesn't suck but i dont know many people who use it/pay attention to it |
| 11:14.32 | spikebike | svetland interesting looks like there's a big bug |
| 11:14.42 | spikebike | er swetland |
| 11:14.50 | spikebike | only user created groups show |
| 11:15.00 | spikebike | but the google default groups like family don't carry over |
| 11:15.50 | Dialekt | im excited |
| 11:15.57 | Dialekt | i got featured in the biggest spoof on the web |
| 11:15.58 | Dialekt | :) |
| 11:20.30 | coding1 | does the G1 plays HD 1080p? |
| 11:21.02 | languish | only if you reencode it down to a format and size playable by the G1 :) |
| 11:22.07 | coding1 | when will be coming the g2? |
| 11:23.01 | PoohbaLT | ugh. i need a file viewer. y didn't one come with the device? :( |
| 11:25.41 | tweakt | what good is 1080p on 480x320? |
| 11:25.52 | tweakt | think about it ;-) |
| 11:26.58 | spikebike | it would be kinda cool to not have to transcode |
| 11:27.14 | languish | on a ~500mhz processor? |
| 11:27.26 | languish | try playing 1080p on any 500mhz machine |
| 11:27.30 | languish | *pc |
| 11:27.37 | languish | not happening |
| 11:27.53 | languish | so why would you expect a handset to do it? |
| 11:28.03 | coding1 | i can play HD in pocketPc's |
| 11:28.22 | languish | you cannot play a 1080p file on a typical pocketpc |
| 11:28.35 | languish | perhaps you can stream a file that's being encoded on the fly |
| 11:28.44 | languish | that's not the same thing |
| 11:29.09 | coding1 | no i just copy paste to the SD and plays |
| 11:29.14 | languish | damnit |
| 11:29.45 | languish | i just realized the g1 browser doesn't have refresh :| |
| 11:30.11 | coding1 | install opera mini |
| 11:30.43 | languish | i have my own reasons for not using opera mini, thanks though :) |
| 11:30.57 | coding1 | midget related? |
| 11:32.04 | languish | sure, blame the little people whydontcha |
| 11:32.05 | Adamant | coding1: midget is not the preferred nomenclature, dude |
| 11:32.32 | Adamant | gahh, sleeeeeeep |
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| 11:47.36 | languish | akin to sms, what transport protocol does gchat use? |
| 11:48.44 | ErikT | Does anybody know if when you send a text message via the SmsManager, a copy of the message is placed in the messaging outbox? |
| 11:53.24 | tweakt | does anyone know if there are USB adapters with a microphone jack? I'd like to use my G1 to record but need better audio |
| 11:54.59 | mimor | is there a way to put android on the sonyericsson p910I ? |
| 11:58.57 | languish | ahh I remmeber |
| 11:59.06 | languish | n/m my last question |
| 11:59.58 | spikebike | er languish? no refresh? |
| 12:00.15 | spikebike | is opera available for android? |
| 12:02.16 | languish | opera mini is |
| 12:02.30 | spikebike | oh? |
| 12:02.34 | spikebike | news to me |
| 12:02.38 | languish | or so I've been told |
| 12:02.43 | spikebike | the built in browser does have refresh |
| 12:02.57 | languish | ah wait |
| 12:03.18 | languish | <coding1> install opera mini |
| 12:03.51 | languish | yep, there is opera mini for android |
| 12:03.58 | spikebike | ya found it |
| 12:04.10 | spikebike | if you try it let me know, I'm pretty happy with the builtin |
| 12:04.13 | languish | http://labs.opera.com/downloads/OperaMini.apk |
| 12:04.15 | spikebike | and refresh is under menu ;-) |
| 12:04.24 | languish | yeah I'm not going to be installing opera mini |
| 12:04.46 | languish | oh duh |
| 12:05.01 | languish | I was looking for it in the damnshortcuts |
| 12:05.29 | languish | spike, thanks |
| 12:05.39 | Dialekt | dammit |
| 12:06.33 | languish | i think I need my two hours of sleep |
| 12:06.43 | languish | o/ |
| 12:06.54 | Dialekt | man |
| 12:07.03 | Dialekt | another thing i love about the blackberry are all the shortcuts |
| 12:07.10 | Dialekt | that's gonna be odd without a keyboard on the STORM |
| 12:07.51 | mimor | Is there already some manufacturer that will ship their android-based phones to europe? |
| 12:08.10 | languish | t-mobile sells the G1 in the .uk |
| 12:10.06 | mimor | hmmm |
| 12:10.23 | mimor | but the problem is, I'm in belgium, and T-mobile doesn't operate here... |
| 12:10.37 | mimor | (yet) |
| 12:11.43 | languish | wife's g1 just updated |
| 12:11.53 | languish | mine, sitting 2 feet from it, did not |
| 12:11.58 | languish | :\ |
| 12:12.11 | languish | and now her's connect to t-mobile as roaming |
| 12:12.24 | languish | *connects |
| 12:16.04 | Delvien | morning |
| 12:18.45 | mimor | is it possible to buy it sim-lock free in the uk? |
| 12:19.44 | mimor | as i found out it will get sold in the netherlands somewhere the first months of 2009 for aprox €308 |
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| 12:26.22 | jasta | _wow_ |
| 12:26.43 | jasta | i just put together a 2000 line patch that worked on first run |
| 12:27.00 | jasta | i am baffled |
| 12:27.18 | spikebike | wishes mind did |
| 12:27.24 | spikebike | languish are you on 3g? |
| 12:27.27 | jasta | i suppose i did implement this feature once before, but still i did it much crappier last time |
| 12:27.40 | jasta | oops, there's the first bug :) |
| 12:27.41 | jasta | hehe |
| 12:37.03 | spikebike | sleeps |
| 12:37.30 | spikebike | languish is your wife using the standard 1GB card that came with the phone? |
| 12:39.05 | tweakt | just discovered "Emulator Controls" view in Eclipse... wow, awsome! |
| 12:40.22 | jasta | ddms (stand alone) has lots more options too |
| 12:41.48 | tweakt | Is there anything I can do to get more responsive playback of sounds? I'm using MediaPlayer and calling start() in response to click events. Sometimes they delay random amounts |
| 12:42.26 | PoohbaLT | ugh! how do u delete albums? I've ran out of space |
| 12:42.42 | PoohbaLT | this is why a file browser would be helpful |
| 12:57.50 | andatche | a proper file browser would be very useful :) |
| 12:58.33 | Delvien | andatche: there is one on the market |
| 12:58.43 | andatche | yeah, I have that one isntalled |
| 12:58.47 | andatche | it's rather basic though |
| 12:59.18 | Delvien | what more do you need? |
| 13:00.35 | phyburn | anyone mind taking a look at my code and letting me know where I failed with my Timer http://pastebin.com/m386d7fd7 |
| 13:01.05 | Delvien | phyburn: what kind of timer |
| 13:01.20 | phyburn | I'm trying to create a clock that displays the time |
| 13:01.28 | phyburn | so I need it to run over and over untill the application is closed |
| 13:02.02 | Delvien | o |
| 13:02.23 | phyburn | I got it working with umm java standared? lol I don;t know what you call it |
| 13:02.48 | phyburn | then I thought it would work with android but I didn't know android doesn;t have ActionListener |
| 13:07.35 | mimor | How do I put android on an existing phone? |
| 13:07.41 | mimor | if it is possible at all |
| 13:08.54 | CompBrain | depends on the phone |
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| 13:20.34 | tweakt | Anyone have problems playing very short sounds? |
| 13:22.32 | tweakt | I'm using MediaPlayer, I think OnCompletionListener doesn't fire sometimes? |
| 13:23.22 | phyburn | any good android forums out there for developers? |
| 13:23.47 | gambler | phyburn, anddev.org |
| 13:24.34 | phyburn | thanks gambler |
| 13:24.46 | phyburn | need some helpzzz |
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| 14:01.18 | tweakt | I'm definitely having problems with playback of very short audio files (< 150ms) |
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| 14:01.37 | tweakt | sometimes just do not play, though the API response normally |
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| 14:18.56 | tweakt | Should I be using multiple MediaPlayer instances for each sound effect, or just one and setting data source each time? |
| 14:19.15 | tweakt | cause this way is really inconsistent |
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| 14:31.21 | jelg | I was wondering about the Android debug-protocol between Eclipse and the target: is it based on gdb? (documented somewhere?) |
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| 14:42.33 | elad | if I wanted to write a little back ground app to send my cordinates to a webserver say every 5minutes |
| 14:42.45 | elad | would threading be needed for this? |
| 14:46.07 | tweakt | You'd want to write it as a Service |
| 14:46.07 | gambler | elad yep. |
| 14:46.39 | tweakt | because your activity will be suspended if you switch away from it |
| 14:46.41 | elad | and this should be very simplistic I assume? |
| 14:46.51 | elad | thanks for the advice tweak |
| 14:47.01 | tweakt | http://code.google.com/android/reference/android/app/Service.html |
| 14:47.32 | elad | thanks |
| 14:47.39 | tweakt | In the service you start a thread |
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| 14:58.52 | kaner | hi, i am doing the notepad tutorial on linux, eclipse. i get a "serListAdapter unknown" in a class derived from ListActivity. Any pointers? |
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| 14:59.22 | kaner | also, this.<list of routines> in eclipse does not show "serListAdapter()" |
| 15:00.09 | tweakt | your activity must extend ListActivity |
| 15:00.26 | kaner | it does |
| 15:00.39 | kaner | public class Notepadv1 extends ListActivity |
| 15:01.40 | gambler | maybe try setListAdapter instead? |
| 15:02.06 | kaner | argh! |
| 15:02.11 | kaner | thanks |
| 15:02.41 | kaner | that also explains this: "Your search - listactivity serListAdapter - did not match any documents." |
| 15:02.44 | kaner | ;) |
| 15:03.17 | gambler | np |
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| 15:22.52 | michaelnovakjr__ | yawn |
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| 15:24.22 | jelg | Got the following when installing the Android for Eclipse on Ubuntu: "No repository found at https://dl-ssl.google.com/android/eclipse/ |
| 15:24.22 | jelg | <PROTECTED> |
| 15:24.22 | jelg | <PROTECTED> |
| 15:24.22 | jelg | " |
| 15:25.29 | michaelnovakjr__ | try just http:// |
| 15:25.46 | jelg | okay will do |
| 15:26.57 | jelg | seems to work! thanks michaelnovakjr |
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| 15:29.07 | michaelnovakjr__ | cool, np |
| 15:29.34 | DaFreeze | hey, i'm listening to the NEW_OUTGOING_CALL broadcast. is there a way to cancel the call? |
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| 15:34.06 | michaelnovakjr__ | did you try unregisterReceiver? |
| 15:34.12 | DaFreeze | nope |
| 15:34.19 | DaFreeze | ill read about that |
| 15:34.20 | michaelnovakjr__ | http://code.google.com/android/reference/android/content/Context.html#unregisterReceiver(android.content.BroadcastReceiver) |
| 15:34.23 | DaFreeze | thanks |
| 15:34.28 | michaelnovakjr__ | np |
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| 15:41.00 | DaFreeze | hmm.. how will this cancel the outgoing call? |
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| 15:43.24 | michaelnovakjr__ | ah sorry |
| 15:43.27 | michaelnovakjr__ | it wont |
| 15:44.57 | michaelnovakjr__ | misread it, i dont think you can |
| 15:45.40 | ieatlint | well... now i see why tmobile is so slowly pushing out the OTA update... it's 45mb... makes you wonder why they don't do themselves a favour and (officially) allow updates over usb/sd |
| 15:46.20 | DaFreeze | ah.. k.. thx |
| 15:46.32 | michaelnovakjr__ | ieatlint: not over wifi either? |
| 15:47.09 | ieatlint | it may have worked over wifi, i dunno... the update is pushed in the background |
| 15:47.33 | ieatlint | the phone will download it without you having a clue, and then a screen will popup notifying you an update is available and asking if you want to proceed |
| 15:48.40 | andatche | is it possible to use any cut to create a shortcut to a url that should open in the browser? |
| 15:49.28 | cbeust_ | andatche: Yes but you can do that without Any Cut |
| 15:49.34 | cbeust_ | Just make a bookmark and create a shortcut to it |
| 15:49.45 | andatche | ah right, cool. didn't realise you could do that :) |
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| 16:03.52 | andatche | are there any plans for iplayer on android? |
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| 16:06.42 | igorgue | umm |
| 16:06.49 | igorgue | how do I make a update check? |
| 16:07.11 | igorgue | I think, I'm not updated... (my G1) |
| 16:07.49 | Dougie187 | i think its in your phone settings. |
| 16:07.49 | Dougie187 | but i don't have a G1 |
| 16:07.55 | Dougie187 | there is something that tells you the version in settings i believe |
| 16:09.01 | michaelnovakjr__ | yea its in settings |
| 16:09.34 | michaelnovakjr__ | there's a lot of g1 commercials on discovery today |
| 16:09.52 | Dougie187 | yeah i started to see them a little while ago |
| 16:09.59 | Dougie187 | like right after it came out i started seeing them |
| 16:13.19 | Death_Syn | I'm still not updated |
| 16:16.20 | d0nets | me neither |
| 16:16.42 | igorgue | I read this: http://news.cnet.com/8301-1035_3-10080714-94.html |
| 16:16.49 | cbeust | The updates are being rolled out progressively, don't worry, you will be updated |
| 16:17.01 | igorgue | too late |
| 16:17.02 | igorgue | ;) |
| 16:17.18 | igorgue | I tried another "hack" and my phone got formated :D |
| 16:17.24 | igorgue | I have no apps now :( |
| 16:17.37 | igorgue | the cool thing is that everything else is on my google account ;) |
| 16:17.43 | d0nets | what all does the update include |
| 16:17.57 | igorgue | it says security patches... |
| 16:18.22 | igorgue | but I hope it comes with updates, stability updates... |
| 16:18.27 | ieatlint | it includes a lot more than a browser security patch |
| 16:18.41 | igorgue | ieatlint: nice!, cant wait! |
| 16:18.42 | ieatlint | but i don't see any real difference from a user point of view --- except one thing |
| 16:18.53 | igorgue | anyway but I will wait... |
| 16:18.58 | ieatlint | when you connect usb, you get an item in your notifications saying so |
| 16:19.07 | ieatlint | if you click on it, it asks if you want to mount the sd card on the computer |
| 16:19.25 | ieatlint | kinda nice, actually |
| 16:20.37 | *** join/#android schmylan (n=schmylan@ppp-70-251-102-129.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net) |
| 16:21.53 | *** part/#android jelg (n=johannes@c83-249-133-244.bredband.comhem.se) |
| 16:29.17 | roxfan | what directory corresponds to what's visible over usb mass storage (if there is one)? |
| 16:29.38 | ieatlint | on the phone? /sdcard |
| 16:29.59 | roxfan | only sd card is exported? there's no internal storage? |
| 16:30.11 | ieatlint | internal storage is restricted |
| 16:30.23 | roxfan | hm? |
| 16:30.46 | ieatlint | /system /data /cache are each mtd partitions |
| 16:30.49 | roxfan | (i don't have a phone, just an emulator) |
| 16:31.04 | ieatlint | ah, the emulator doesn't have the same permission restrictions |
| 16:31.32 | roxfan | so when you connect the phone, you just see the drive letter for sd card? |
| 16:32.20 | ieatlint | when you connect the phone over usb to a computer, the computer will see a removable storage device -- depending on how the phone is configured by the user, the computer will see the partition on the sd card |
| 16:32.49 | ieatlint | (so in other words, at the user's discretion, yes -- you'll see a drive letter for the sd card, as though you were using a generic usb sd card reader) |
| 16:33.02 | roxfan | i see |
| 16:33.24 | ieatlint | and the phone can't use the sd card when it's mounted on a computer |
| 16:34.27 | roxfan | so ACTION_MEDIA_SHARED etc only cover the sd card? |
| 16:35.12 | ieatlint | yes |
| 16:35.49 | roxfan | thanks |
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| 16:37.59 | *** join/#android holydhaliwal (n=Paul@modemcable239.23-21-96.mc.videotron.ca) |
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| 16:39.09 | holydhaliwal | hey guys im having trouble starting the android emulator included in the sdk, i just want to play around with the os really so i was wondering how i get it running...what happens is when i open the emulator application a command prompt window opens up and closes right away, then nothing, any ideas? |
| 16:40.03 | roxfan | try running it from a command prompt window |
| 16:40.15 | roxfan | so you can see the error messages if there are any |
| 16:40.43 | holydhaliwal | how would i do that? open the command prompt and just point to the emulators path? |
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| 16:42.03 | roxfan | yea, e.g. "c:\android-sdk-windows-1.0_r1\tools\emulator.exe" |
| 16:42.18 | roxfan | or you can cd to that directory and run emulator.exe from there |
| 16:42.51 | michaelnovakjr__ | note, the emulator doesn't give the phone justice |
| 16:43.04 | michaelnovakjr__ | its not meant for a demo, but for development |
| 16:44.30 | kosz | hi everybody |
| 16:45.00 | holydhaliwal | yes im fine with that, roxfan i pointed to the file and it gave the message cannot create data directory: C:\Users\Paul\Appdata\Local\Android\Sdk-1.0 Please specify a writable directory with -datadir |
| 16:45.28 | roxfan | weird that it's not writable |
| 16:45.36 | michaelnovakjr__ | that is because it doesn't exist |
| 16:45.46 | michaelnovakjr__ | you need to create that directory |
| 16:45.50 | roxfan | well, it should be able to create it |
| 16:45.51 | michaelnovakjr__ | then run it again |
| 16:46.01 | roxfan | i didn't have to create one myself |
| 16:46.02 | michaelnovakjr__ | nope, even on linux it gives the same issue |
| 16:46.12 | michaelnovakjr__ | i had that on two of my machines |
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| 16:46.27 | holydhaliwal | so i just create a bunch of folders in that form? |
| 16:47.53 | holydhaliwal | oh wow that worked! thanks a bunch guys! |
| 16:49.44 | holydhaliwal | just another question, you said that it runs smoother on the actual g1 rather then the emulator? |
| 16:50.51 | michaelnovakjr__ | yea |
| 16:52.09 | holydhaliwal | alright cool thanks a lot |
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| 16:54.23 | *** join/#android offby1 (n=user@q-static-138-125.avvanta.com) |
| 16:54.31 | offby1 | ooh, lots of folks here |
| 16:55.10 | offby1 | So my phone downloaded and installed an update last night, and now it works a bit -worse- than before, in one aspect ... where can I go to get a notion of what changed? |
| 16:55.18 | offby1 | i.e., what changes were introduced by that update? |
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| 17:19.51 | kosz | I am curious can android also run on Iphones, or for iPhones i'd be stuck to developing with the toolkit they provide and the cocoa framework ? |
| 17:20.06 | cbeust | android doesn't run on iPhones |
| 17:21.14 | roxfan | it might be ported, but it's not an easy task |
| 17:21.25 | kosz | right |
| 17:21.49 | kosz | well thanks, that's a bit sad news for me |
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| 17:22.20 | kosz | what devices does android run on ? |
| 17:22.34 | cbeust | Officially as of today, only on the G1 |
| 17:22.43 | kosz | i know most of them ran symbian for the past while |
| 17:22.51 | michaelnovakjr__ | android on the iPhone? |
| 17:22.57 | michaelnovakjr__ | why would anyone do that? |
| 17:22.58 | cbeust | "of them"? Which ones/ |
| 17:23.04 | kosz | ah so not many devices out either ? |
| 17:23.24 | kosz | cbeust : sorry quite the clueless noob at this |
| 17:23.35 | kosz | my last real phone is a nokia e70 |
| 17:23.36 | cbeust | kosz: sorry don't understand your question |
| 17:23.45 | cbeust | Yes, Nokias run Symbian |
| 17:23.49 | kosz | i was talking about devices |
| 17:23.59 | kosz | and they'll keep on running symbian ? |
| 17:24.20 | cbeust | Who knows? |
| 17:24.21 | kosz | what phones will be using android ? I remember seeing Samsung as one of the partners |
| 17:24.29 | cbeust | But it's likely since Nokia acquired Symbian |
| 17:24.30 | *** join/#android freethink (n=berdote@adsl-211-119-94.asm.bellsouth.net) |
| 17:24.42 | michaelnovakjr__ | Symbian is going open source |
| 17:24.57 | cbeust | michaelnovakjr: Yes, I wonder what prompted that :) |
| 17:25.04 | neekers | symbian is slowwwwww |
| 17:25.06 | michaelnovakjr__ | Motorola is hiring a bunch of android folks..... so they seem to be investing a ton in the platform |
| 17:25.08 | kosz | also michaelnovakjr__ why are you saying android on iphone is not recomended ... why ? |
| 17:25.23 | michaelnovakjr__ | kosz: the iPhone is a great phone |
| 17:25.29 | kosz | simbian is slow indeed :( |
| 17:25.38 | pawalls | Some of the posts on xda-developers makes me lose faith in humanity. |
| 17:25.43 | pawalls | *make me |
| 17:25.46 | michaelnovakjr__ | why would you get an iPhone just to get android? |
| 17:26.14 | kosz | michaelnovakjr__ so iPhone is good enough with it's own OS you are saying ? |
| 17:26.26 | michaelnovakjr__ | yes |
| 17:26.32 | cbeust | kosz: Yes, the iPhone is a very good phone too |
| 17:26.43 | kosz | ok makes sens ... mac os is indeed great |
| 17:26.55 | BHSPitLappy | I'd certainly love to play with Android on iPhone hardware (or, in my case, iPod Touch hardware) |
| 17:27.00 | michaelnovakjr__ | don't get me wrong... i have a G1 too and its great |
| 17:27.06 | kosz | today i was reading that most of the os on the iphone is mac os ... |
| 17:27.17 | michaelnovakjr__ | kosz: not really |
| 17:27.29 | kosz | no ? |
| 17:27.34 | cbeust | It's a very customized version of MacOS |
| 17:27.44 | BHSPitLappy | michaelnovakjr, I don't think people want Android on their iPhones to replace iphoneos, I think it's because we're hackers and it's hackish :P |
| 17:27.47 | michaelnovakjr__ | the kernel i'd say is the common ground |
| 17:27.48 | roxfan | it is OSX |
| 17:27.56 | michaelnovakjr__ | the cocoa framework is very different |
| 17:27.56 | roxfan | just ported to arm |
| 17:28.15 | michaelnovakjr__ | the differences in the framework are visible |
| 17:28.17 | roxfan | well yes, the ui is naturally different |
| 17:28.21 | michaelnovakjr__ | :) |
| 17:28.26 | michaelnovakjr__ | the apps are different |
| 17:28.35 | michaelnovakjr__ | the common ground would be the kernel |
| 17:28.59 | kosz | and some apis i'd think |
| 17:29.02 | roxfan | i guess depends on your definition of "OS" where it's different |
| 17:29.06 | michaelnovakjr__ | i would say it was modeled like osx, but to say it is, that isn't true |
| 17:29.40 | kosz | what's the processing power like ? |
| 17:29.40 | kosz | would u say P3 like or still ... slow handheld like ? |
| 17:29.46 | michaelnovakjr__ | ? |
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| 17:30.02 | roxfan | iphone? it's an arm11 ar 400mhz with graphics accelerator |
| 17:30.03 | kosz | well last handheld i had was a dell palm |
| 17:30.06 | michaelnovakjr__ | it depends on what you are doing |
| 17:30.09 | roxfan | so quite powerful |
| 17:30.24 | kosz | i see |
| 17:30.32 | kosz | would you be able to run 3d games ? |
| 17:30.32 | geist | yeah, i'd say an arm11 at 400 is about like a P2 266 or so |
| 17:30.37 | michaelnovakjr__ | it doesn't like multitasking much though |
| 17:30.45 | kosz | ah thanks geist :) |
| 17:31.10 | geist | kind of depends on what you're doing |
| 17:31.16 | michaelnovakjr__ | yea |
| 17:31.20 | ieatlint | 3d is overrated... i'm just waiting for the oregon trail to come out for android |
| 17:31.25 | geist | but most arm11s are totally cache starved, which really limits their performance |
| 17:31.39 | roxfan | the cpu is actually underclocked... i guess they did it to reduce head and power usage |
| 17:31.41 | kosz | what's oregon trail ? |
| 17:31.54 | michaelnovakjr__ | haha |
| 17:32.09 | ieatlint | classic computer game... may have just been a US thing |
| 17:32.09 | geist | well not really, but it's definitely not super fast |
| 17:32.41 | neekers | geist, all are arms built on AVRs? |
| 17:32.45 | michaelnovakjr__ | both the g1 and iphone have good battery life |
| 17:32.50 | roxfan | btw dunno what they did but iphone os 2.x feels sluggier than 1.x |
| 17:32.59 | roxfan | neekers: arms are build on arms :) |
| 17:33.04 | roxfan | not related to avr at all |
| 17:33.18 | neekers | roxfan: are you sure about that? |
| 17:33.23 | roxfan | of course |
| 17:33.26 | cbeust | ieatlint: no I played Oregon Trail back in France too, it's a classic |
| 17:33.45 | kosz | never did |
| 17:33.47 | michaelnovakjr__ | yea |
| 17:33.48 | cbeust | We have hardware acceleration for OpenGL, though, so the door is definitely open for 3D games |
| 17:33.53 | kosz | played diablo thuogh |
| 17:33.55 | cbeust | but yes, there are limits |
| 17:34.01 | ieatlint | i'm serious... oregon trail would be awesome :) |
| 17:34.14 | kosz | googles oregon trail |
| 17:34.24 | geist | neekers: no, not at all. has nothing to do with AVR |
| 17:34.33 | geist | ARM is ARM, its it's own instruction set |
| 17:34.43 | geist | been around since the early 80s |
| 17:35.12 | kosz | oh that is some ghetto lemings shit |
| 17:35.14 | geist | it's done by ARM, ltd. they license cores to various vendors |
| 17:35.20 | cbeust | There are a lot of 80-90 games that would run easily on the G1 (we even have Quake running), but the interface will be the limiting factor |
| 17:35.23 | geist | TI, Qualcomm, freescale, samsung, etc |
| 17:35.29 | neekers | ok, so avr is just another risc based processor? |
| 17:35.43 | geist | avr is some other risc thing done by i forget the company |
| 17:35.47 | roxfan | atmel |
| 17:35.53 | ieatlint | kosz, it's nothing like lemmings... |
| 17:35.56 | geist | they recently came out with a 32bit variant, to compete with arm |
| 17:36.32 | neekers | i would like to learn more about coding arm processors |
| 17:36.33 | roxfan | atmel does arm chips too :) |
| 17:36.38 | geist | right |
| 17:36.56 | kosz | ah ok |
| 17:37.04 | kosz | now i found newer screenshots |
| 17:37.10 | kosz | looks like sailor moon :) |
| 17:37.11 | neekers | oh... i see, so they atmel makes arm and avr, but they are different |
| 17:37.27 | geist | right. avr is a tiny 8 bit cpu |
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| 17:37.33 | geist | not even in the same class |
| 17:37.34 | kosz | but diablo one like games should be achiavable as well i'd say |
| 17:37.43 | kosz | after all i played diablo one on something like a p 233 |
| 17:37.45 | geist | it's extremely simple, and you can easily embed the design in your fpga or so |
| 17:37.47 | roxfan | neekers: #edev or ##microcontrollers might be good channels to idle then |
| 17:37.54 | neekers | avr is more than 8bit, i'm pretty certaqin about that |
| 17:38.02 | geist | no, not avr |
| 17:38.07 | geist | avr32 is probably what you're thinking of |
| 17:38.09 | geist | that's something else |
| 17:38.16 | geist | that's the thing that's pretty arm like |
| 17:38.25 | geist | but it's relatively new, not sure how well used it is |
| 17:38.27 | roxfan | btw arm has a core designed for fpga... cortex m-1 |
| 17:38.35 | geist | yep, they do |
| 17:38.45 | geist | the new low end cortex stuff is pretty small |
| 17:38.51 | neekers | thanks roxfan |
| 17:39.03 | geist | not sure how easy it is to license it for your designs, though |
| 17:39.08 | geist | avr you usually got for free essentially |
| 17:39.23 | geist | just another block you can stuff on the side of your fpga to drive the logic |
| 17:39.38 | neekers | i bought an avr butterfly to learn with, it was 20 bucks |
| 17:39.39 | geist | or of course you can get the little 20 pin chip |
| 17:40.23 | neekers | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AVR_Butterfly |
| 17:40.32 | neekers | it's pretty nice for 20 bucks |
| 17:40.38 | geist | cute |
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| 17:51.59 | neekers | . |
| 17:57.02 | neekers | did the channel die or did my connection die? |
| 17:57.24 | BHSPitLappy | your connection died |
| 17:57.34 | BHSPitLappy | also your face |
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| 17:57.36 | neekers | heh |
| 17:57.58 | BHSPitLappy | in all honesty, nothing happened |
| 18:00.19 | BHSPitLappy | "There are free plans to convert the Butterfly into a portable AVR-ISP device (see Buttload) for programming a whole family of AVR devices." |
| 18:00.25 | BHSPitLappy | ... |
| 18:00.40 | tweakt | "buttload" ? |
| 18:00.45 | BHSPitLappy | No, Wikipedia, I will NOT see buttload. |
| 18:00.50 | tweakt | lol |
| 18:00.56 | *** join/#android fhobia (n=fhobia@c-24-6-54-200.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
| 18:01.37 | neekers | url? |
| 18:01.53 | BHSPitLappy | neekers, YOU posted it |
| 18:02.09 | neekers | oh... :o) |
| 18:04.10 | *** join/#android dglazkov (n=dglazkov@c-24-130-144-56.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
| 18:04.36 | roxfan | arduino seems to be a standard for avr now |
| 18:04.45 | roxfan | so i'd use that if starting now |
| 18:07.38 | *** join/#android dglazkov_ (n=dglazkov@72.14.224.1) |
| 18:09.21 | neekers | doesnt arduino have some where c variant langauge? |
| 18:09.28 | neekers | where=wierd |
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| 18:13.01 | tweakt | neekers, AVR is programmed in it's own language very similar to C |
| 18:13.24 | tweakt | Arduino is just a higher level language which compiles to AVR machine code |
| 18:33.20 | DarkriftX | wow, androidcommunity has become a bitchfest |
| 18:33.26 | DarkriftX | just massive amount of complaining |
| 18:33.36 | offby1 | So I wanted to look at pictures, but my phone says the SD card is busy. But when I go to Settings/SD Card & Phone Storage, the "Unmount/eject SD card" item is greyed out, and does nothing when I click on it (apart from blinking and making the "click" sound). Wozzup with that? |
| 18:33.39 | DarkriftX | i wish they would just take it back and stfu so the ones who do like it dont have to hear it |
| 18:34.52 | roxfan | "it"? |
| 18:35.01 | DarkriftX | their g1 |
| 18:35.37 | Death_Syn | <3 my G1 |
| 18:35.42 | DarkriftX | go look, i cant find any good threads because they are all buried under "my 3g dont work" and "really pissed about this" threads |
| 18:35.46 | neekers | darkriftx: what are they complaining about? |
| 18:35.51 | DarkriftX | everything |
| 18:35.56 | DarkriftX | you name it, theres a complaint about it |
| 18:36.01 | neekers | heh |
| 18:36.07 | neekers | whiners unite. |
| 18:36.11 | BruteSource | well what does that mea? |
| 18:36.14 | BruteSource | mean |
| 18:36.30 | DarkriftX | it means they were stupid enough to buy a beta phone expecting it to be perfect |
| 18:36.47 | benley | offby1: try turning off mass storage mode |
| 18:36.48 | DarkriftX | gee, lets try vista beta3 and throw a fit when it crashes..... |
| 18:37.11 | benley | offby1: it probably thinks it is connected to a computer (or maybe it is!) |
| 18:37.35 | Chicago | Hello, 'make' finished successfully and now I have a system.img/ramdisk.img/userdata.img. Where are the instructions for building the 2.6.25 bzImage for my mpm7500/ HTC Titan? |
| 18:37.47 | BruteSource | it isnt supposed to be a beta, its a release |
| 18:37.50 | andyross | FWIW: The G1 isn't a beta phone, it's a real product, with pretty significant advertising campaign behind it. I don't know what the complaints are, but people *do* tend to have the expectation that a high end smart phone will do what they want. |
| 18:38.14 | offby1 | benley: it is indeed connected, but disconnecting doesn't help. And as far as I can tell, the "mass storage mode" switch is now gone, and has been _replaced_ by the menu item I mentioned. (The phone updated itself last night) |
| 18:38.51 | benley | offby1: hm. Try rebooting if it's gotten itself stuck - rc29 is supposed to handle this stuff more smoothly than rc19 did |
| 18:38.56 | BruteSource | i would complain as well if i purchased a product and things didnt work |
| 18:39.06 | DarkriftX | well stop trying to buy one then |
| 18:39.07 | offby1 | benley: I'm sure rebooting will work, but I was hoping to avoid that :) |
| 18:39.09 | DarkriftX | some stuff doesnt work |
| 18:39.13 | benley | offby1: like, it should prompt you and ask whether or not you want to mount as usb storage when you plug it in |
| 18:39.15 | DarkriftX | and we dont need another person bitching |
| 18:39.20 | benley | offby1: sure. I haven't run into that problem though :) |
| 18:39.23 | offby1 | benley: it does do that prompting properly |
| 18:39.34 | offby1 | puts a nice little logo in the notification area and everything. |
| 18:39.40 | benley | cool |
| 18:39.50 | BruteSource | lmao, your opinion ias valuable as msn for a search engine |
| 18:40.06 | DarkriftX | do you come here to argue? |
| 18:40.17 | BruteSource | no i think you do |
| 18:40.19 | DarkriftX | you seem to find a way to argue every time you come |
| 18:40.26 | DarkriftX | nope, only with you it seems |
| 18:40.33 | benley | bah, all smartphone forums are giant bitchfests |
| 18:40.36 | DarkriftX | thats ok, ignore works great |
| 18:40.46 | BruteSource | obviously, since your outnumbered on the issue at hand again |
| 18:40.57 | BruteSource | hehe, good for you |
| 18:41.44 | *** join/#android morrildl_ (n=morrildl@76-217-210-185.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net) |
| 18:41.44 | *** mode/#android [+o morrildl_] by ChanServ |
| 18:42.03 | Chicago | Can somebody give me a hand, please. |
| 18:42.16 | Chicago | The source for Android finished mak'ing while I slept. |
| 18:43.28 | Chicago | I am still a bit unclear on howto find the lastest .config and kernel tree to use in order to create my bzImage. |
| 18:44.08 | benley | Chicago: have you seen this? http://it029000.massey.ac.nz/vogue/ |
| 18:44.38 | *** join/#android morrildl__ (n=morrildl@72.14.224.1) |
| 18:44.52 | Chicago | benley: At the bottom of that page, I read "diffs against android git on 6 July 08 (branch android-msm-2.6.25 available from here commit 07fe2e3914202167a4d314bf5e81bbd2f5d3062b)" |
| 18:46.44 | Chicago | benley: I also see, the latest version posted there is date stamped today. |
| 18:46.53 | *** join/#android incandenza (n=incanden@12.44.147.155) |
| 18:46.58 | Chicago | However, I would like to use the tools to build my own. |
| 18:47.01 | benley | ah |
| 18:47.04 | benley | doesn't know how to do that :) |
| 18:47.33 | BruteSource | seems martin has got power managment working now |
| 18:47.33 | michaelnovakjr__ | benley: is that updated? |
| 18:47.39 | benley | michaelnovakjr__: no idea |
| 18:47.50 | benley | I don't have an xv6800, I just started googling :) |
| 18:47.59 | Chicago | What is the 'board=' line supposed to say in out/target/product/generic/android-info.txt? |
| 18:48.23 | michaelnovakjr__ | benley: i wrote a few apps for that back in the summer |
| 18:48.42 | michaelnovakjr__ | haven't looked at it since 0.9 |
| 18:50.04 | morrildl__ | All I want for Christmas is for someone to clean up the Wikipedia article on Android |
| 18:50.11 | BruteSource | well android doesnt exactly have symbian shakin in their boots yet |
| 18:51.17 | Chicago | benley: Also, the kernel .config from the page you mentioned -> http://it029000.massey.ac.nz/vogue/ is from 9/25/2008.... Is there a real repository for these files? Or do they just exist as downloads from a webpage? |
| 18:51.25 | benley | Chicago: dunno |
| 18:51.47 | BruteSource | martins git repo |
| 18:55.25 | Chicago | BruteSource: Is that git repository address posted somewhere on xda-developers.com/ |
| 18:55.26 | Chicago | ? |
| 18:55.45 | *** join/#android Sorium (i=Sorium@dhcp0222.hil.resnet.group.upenn.edu) |
| 18:55.47 | Sorium | yo |
| 18:55.52 | Chicago | Hello |
| 18:56.59 | Chicago | BruteSource: Nevermind, I see the linuxtogo.org git repository link at the bottom of the vogue page. |
| 18:57.09 | romainguy_ | morrildl__: All I want for Christmas is for someone to clean up the Wikipedia article on Android << I want the same thing! |
| 18:57.32 | eldenz | f1? |
| 19:05.16 | *** join/#android galtoid (n=galtoid@cpe-76-166-144-128.socal.res.rr.com) |
| 19:07.07 | Chicago | BruteSource: Am I supposed to have used martins git repo before I ran 'make' in the android project dir? |
| 19:08.58 | benley | Probably. |
| 19:09.05 | *** part/#android Dougie187 (n=doug@68.35.245.156) |
| 19:10.02 | Chicago | benley: Ah... Well, I wish I knew that. |
| 19:10.50 | benley | you generally want to patch your source tree before you build it :) |
| 19:11.00 | BruteSource | if you want his latest work, then yes |
| 19:11.51 | Chicago | BruteSource: So, are you saying after the 'repo sync' step, I need to get Martin's repo... and then run make? |
| 19:13.40 | BruteSource | yes |
| 19:15.17 | Chicago | BruteSource: Where are these steps documented? Right now I don't know which subdirectory of my project folder to git martins files into. |
| 19:17.15 | BruteSource | i am sure sure thay are documented |
| 19:18.07 | Chicago | Um, should I use #htc-linux for these questions? |
| 19:19.31 | BruteSource | i don't know? |
| 19:19.55 | michaelnovakjr_ | Chicago: maybe startup #android-vogue |
| 19:21.10 | BruteSource | i know there is a huge thread about ot on xda devs |
| 19:21.17 | BruteSource | it |
| 19:22.50 | Chicago | michaelnovakjr_: I fired up a few channels... We could call it #android-msm7500 |
| 19:22.54 | *** mode/#android [+o morrildl] by ChanServ |
| 19:23.02 | michaelnovakjr_ | that too |
| 19:23.18 | Chicago | And then #android-p4000 |
| 19:23.39 | morrildl | Chicago: swetland would be the right person to ask |
| 19:23.58 | morrildl | But IMO it's probably better to only fork channels when you need to |
| 19:24.01 | Chicago | But maybe they could be under the #htc-msm7500 hierarchy instead...? |
| 19:24.37 | Chicago | Cause there is already an #htc-linux channel with about 100 users. |
| 19:24.40 | michaelnovakjr_ | well, its not officially supported so i think that warrants a channel |
| 19:27.02 | morrildl | michaelnovakjr_: just because no one's building a device from it commercially doesn't mean the work is not "officially supported" |
| 19:27.17 | *** join/#android lethalcode (n=walker@pennmush.org) |
| 19:27.23 | *** join/#android schmylan (n=schmylan@ppp-70-251-102-129.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net) |
| 19:27.34 | michaelnovakjr_ | is it then? |
| 19:27.58 | morrildl | are we going to assume full-time engineers to work on it? probably not |
| 19:28.16 | morrildl | but that doesn't mean the discussion has to flee from #android -- at least not unless it would be helpful |
| 19:28.31 | Chicago | Hmm hmm hmm |
| 19:28.39 | morrildl | I'm just saying don't go create a channel just because you feel like you have to |
| 19:28.44 | morrildl | if you need to, sure :) |
| 19:28.48 | Chicago | Being on FreeNode is the most helpful :) |
| 19:31.09 | Chicago | Other users like me will eventually land here... The route I used was first browsing xda-developers.com... then found #htc-linux here on FreeNode and then #android. |
| 19:31.57 | *** join/#android plusminus_ (i=4421a620@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-87330a0ecbeff978) |
| 19:32.55 | *** join/#android AnimaSana (n=AnimaSan@athedsl-4433749.home.otenet.gr) |
| 19:33.18 | AnimaSana | anyone wanting to partner? funds are available... |
| 19:33.19 | BruteSource | i wonder if someone was stranded on a desert island with only irc.. if anyone would believe them to send help |
| 19:33.38 | BruteSource | partner for what? |
| 19:33.52 | *** join/#android Jouva (n=jouva@CPE-65-27-83-19.new.res.rr.com) |
| 19:34.06 | *** join/#android sylar (n=erica@83.225.179.83) |
| 19:34.07 | AnimaSana | android application development |
| 19:34.28 | sylar | hi all |
| 19:34.30 | AnimaSana | i was thinking games, but other ideas are welcome too |
| 19:35.03 | BruteSource | speaking of that, has anyone tried pterminal yet? |
| 19:36.07 | AnimaSana | what is that? :P |
| 19:36.17 | Chicago | AnimaSana: We could make an interactive fiction game and use gps and sell advertising in the game based on the gps. |
| 19:36.25 | BruteSource | a terminal app for android |
| 19:36.45 | Disconnect | BruteSource: from the description, its more of a command runner than a terminal |
| 19:37.22 | umdk1d3 | its more of an emulator right? i think it could only do "ls" and similar commands |
| 19:37.30 | BruteSource | naw its a full terminal from what i have read |
| 19:37.34 | umdk1d3 | it didnt actually "run" commands |
| 19:37.40 | umdk1d3 | tries to use cat with pipes |
| 19:37.43 | AnimaSana | hmm chicago, i do not think advertising is the way to go |
| 19:37.50 | AnimaSana | i prefer making users pay |
| 19:37.50 | Disconnect | BruteSource: ..it says it doesn't run any interactive comands. so... |
| 19:38.04 | zhobbs | there is a Term app in the git repo |
| 19:38.05 | geist | yeah, it's pretty cheesy |
| 19:38.06 | BruteSource | you guys are thinking of the emulator that comes with the develop sdk |
| 19:38.16 | Disconnect | umdk1d3: it does run commands, but not through a shell. (so pipes are out) or with any input (like a termianl) |
| 19:38.16 | zhobbs | just rune "make Term" and it'll generate the Term.apk |
| 19:38.19 | BruteSource | not ptermnal, |
| 19:38.25 | Chicago | AnimaSana: Well, I was thinking the game should have its own economy and that users have to grind a few hours here or there to pay for anything in the game... |
| 19:38.35 | umdk1d3 | zhobbs: yea that term app is exactly what you need, but idk if just anyone can compile and install it |
| 19:38.39 | BruteSource | pterminal is in android market, created recently |
| 19:38.40 | Disconnect | BruteSource: ..i think i know the difference between the emulator and the phone but thanks for assuming we're idiots anyway. |
| 19:38.52 | umdk1d3 | zhobbs: will it install and work after built? |
| 19:38.55 | BruteSource | no your just confused |
| 19:38.59 | zhobbs | umdk1d3: yeah, works fine |
| 19:39.02 | incandenza | BruteSource: I've used it, but I didn't really see anything interesting to do with it |
| 19:39.13 | plusminus_ | HI @all |
| 19:39.17 | plusminus_ | when picking an Contact, using (Intent iPick = new Intent(Intent.ACTION_PICK);) is there a way to add constraints, i.e. select only ones having an address? |
| 19:39.22 | zhobbs | umdk1d3: want the APK? |
| 19:39.30 | umdk1d3 | zhobbs: i have it already ;) |
| 19:39.41 | umdk1d3 | have it on desktop using anycut |
| 19:39.51 | BruteSource | your talking about the terminal emulator google made for the developer sdk, not pterminal which is a 3rd party application only created recently |
| 19:40.30 | zhobbs | BruteSource: yeah, I have tried pterminal...been using google's |
| 19:40.32 | Disconnect | BruteSource: no, i'm explicitly not. the one google made works, and can run interactive commands, pipes, etc. |
| 19:40.46 | zhobbs | I haven't* |
| 19:41.01 | *** part/#android sylar (n=erica@83.225.179.83) |
| 19:41.06 | BruteSource | p terminal is a fully funtional terminal emulator and can run commands, go read the thread on xda dev lmao |
| 19:41.06 | *** join/#android MikHel (n=michel@c-76-25-248-203.hsd1.co.comcast.net) |
| 19:41.12 | MikHel | Hello |
| 19:41.30 | Disconnect | here we are (stupid market needs a web interface) "you can not run commands that ask for user input at this time"... |
| 19:41.31 | umdk1d3 | BruteSource: umm fully functional? no |
| 19:41.32 | MikHel | I am having problem with Android on Eclipse... |
| 19:41.59 | BruteSource | im not talking about the same program as you obviously |
| 19:42.14 | Disconnect | term is fully functional, with a few minor bugs. pterminal is, by it's own description, a simple command executor. |
| 19:42.34 | MikHel | The layout editor is not coming up and the log shows that com/android/layoutlib/api/ILayoutLibBridge cannot be found.... |
| 19:42.34 | BruteSource | god im sick of you windows users, thinking you even have an inkling of what your talking about in here |
| 19:42.37 | Disconnect | BruteSource: there's only one pterminal |
| 19:43.08 | BruteSource | thats not pterminals description, not on the site or in android market |
| 19:43.11 | umdk1d3 | sigh lol @ BruteSource hes kinda cute |
| 19:43.11 | Disconnect | wahahahaha thats awesome. guess i know who wrote pterminal. unbunch your panties. |
| 19:43.39 | lethalcode | Don't suppose there's a way to include a pre-made sqlite db with the .apk? |
| 19:44.05 | Disconnect | i'm looking at it right now in marketplace. "information: android limitations: <root access, etc, which is true for any term at the moment on non-engineering devices>" next paragraph "you cannot run commands that ask for user input at this time, I will work on this and error control for the next version." (bad punctuation - , vs ; - and all) |
| 19:44.08 | zhobbs | lethalcode: you can include in in your apk's assets and then copy it to your area in data |
| 19:44.19 | BruteSource | anyways, anybody who actually knows something about actual terminal emulation, tried pterminal? |
| 19:44.24 | Disconnect | s/you/You/ |
| 19:44.45 | MikHel | is there a channel for android code development? |
| 19:45.00 | BruteSource | lol if there is it is not here |
| 19:45.14 | zhobbs | MikHel: sometimes, but also try #android-dev |
| 19:45.23 | BruteSource | theses guys couldnt write a hello world in english let alone a real language |
| 19:45.25 | MikHel | zhobbs: Thanks. |
| 19:45.46 | lethalcode | BruteSource: Can too. "lethalcode, say Hello World" |
| 19:45.49 | *** join/#android cbeust (n=cbeust@64-142-66-175.dsl.static.sonic.net) |
| 19:45.50 | lethalcode | brainfaults. :-(. |
| 19:46.13 | BruteSource | lol @ brainfault |
| 19:47.35 | Damm | I thought this was android-dev? |
| 19:47.57 | BruteSource | this is android |
| 19:48.28 | BruteSource | home of minly people who don't even understand the device they are using lmao |
| 19:49.08 | umdk1d3 | <PROTECTED> |
| 19:49.47 | Disconnect | yah its funny, because his app sucks according to it's own description, nobody else could -possibly- understand the device. hysterical. |
| 19:50.14 | *** join/#android cbeust (n=cbeust@64-142-66-175.dsl.static.sonic.net) |
| 19:50.35 | BruteSource | my app? |
| 19:51.23 | Disconnect | kind of thought the -point- of a "terminal" was to take user input and hand it to other apps (eg a shell) and prettyprint the output based on a predefined terminal display command spec (such as vt100), but i'm obviously a confused windows user. |
| 19:52.24 | BruteSource | which it can, if you would actually use it |
| 19:54.31 | BruteSource | you wouldn't know what to use a shell for anyways, which is why your happy with your pretty gui apps |
| 19:54.57 | cbeust | BruteSource: didn't you forget to add "M$ sux"? |
| 19:55.04 | Disconnect | hahahaha no i use term because it works, but thanks anyway. |
| 19:55.27 | romainguy_ | is happy to be productive with pretty GUI apps |
| 19:55.30 | BruteSource | ya i am sure ya do |
| 19:55.59 | romainguy_ | but that must make me a very bad programmer |
| 19:56.24 | Disconnect | was one of the people to hack and port sshd to the directivo (s1 and s2). and wrote the kernel module to selectively enable/disable encryption based on the task (playback of encrypted files vs recording clear or playback clear..) but yah i've never seen a shell wtf is that "$" this app is broken |
| 19:56.31 | BruteSource | your not a programmer, not even a bad one |
| 19:56.45 | Disconnect | wow. you're AWESOME. |
| 19:56.48 | umdk1d3 | sigh dont feed the trolls |
| 19:56.56 | cbeust | And you're not a very good speller, BruteSource, but either way, cut it out please |
| 19:56.58 | Disconnect | umdk1d3: but he's funny as shit. |
| 19:57.00 | DarkriftX | my sentiments exactly umdk1d3 |
| 19:57.11 | BruteSource | shut your mouth |
| 19:58.13 | lethalcode | BruteSource: We apologize for not fitting your BS-centric world view. |
| 19:59.07 | cbeust | Disagreeing is fine, insulting other people on this channel is not |
| 19:59.08 | romainguy_ | cbeust: http://arstechnica.com/journals/microsoft.ars/2008/10/31/arspdc-the-new-device-stage-in-windows-7 << I like that |
| 19:59.14 | BruteSource | irc is just not the place for computer illiterate users is all, at least not this sirver. Try dalnet. |
| 19:59.29 | lethalcode | BruteSource: Then why are you here? |
| 19:59.35 | DarkriftX | ive already got him on ignore, but my guess is he hit the bottle again (yeah, old material.. i know) |
| 19:59.55 | DarkriftX | he sat here for 3 hours the other night telling us all how stupid we are for believing google devs would actually sit in an irc channel |
| 20:00.00 | DarkriftX | saying they were all fake |
| 20:00.10 | BruteSource | he doesn't have me o ignore, obviously |
| 20:00.12 | cbeust | Good one |
| 20:00.15 | *** join/#android greudin (n=g@wikipedia/Greudin) |
| 20:00.16 | romainguy_ | DarkriftX: hence the name Android |
| 20:00.26 | DarkriftX | lol, exactly |
| 20:00.29 | romainguy_ | DarkriftX: cbeust and I are androids built by Google |
| 20:00.41 | DarkriftX | he wasnt rude about it at first, but then it started getting bad |
| 20:00.44 | BruteSource | ya because all the windows devs are in #windows |
| 20:00.59 | DarkriftX | and every since then he gets pissed at someone and goes off |
| 20:01.01 | BruteSource | idiot |
| 20:01.02 | cbeust | BruteSource: Microsoft and Google are two different companies |
| 20:01.17 | BruteSource | so hat, stil mutes your point |
| 20:01.20 | BruteSource | what |
| 20:01.31 | cbeust | Mutes? Or did you mean moot? |
| 20:01.41 | BruteSource | i meant mute |
| 20:01.44 | lethalcode | BruteSource: Let's try that again. "So what, it still moots your point." |
| 20:01.45 | zhobbs | hehe |
| 20:01.46 | BruteSource | go read book |
| 20:02.05 | cbeust | BruteSource, I hope your code is better than you English |
| 20:02.09 | cbeust | your* |
| 20:02.14 | BruteSource | is that easier to understand? |
| 20:02.25 | DarkriftX | i almost wish i didnt have him on ignore now, this sounds interesting |
| 20:02.45 | BruteSource | he doesn't have me on ignore, lmao. |
| 20:04.40 | BruteSource | we need to rename this channel to #my-daddy-bought-me-a-g1-cause-its-the-latest-thing |
| 20:04.44 | lethalcode | cbeust: You forget, he's already stated he can't code. |
| 20:04.56 | BruteSource | i did? |
| 20:05.09 | lethalcode | cbeust: 1) Nobody who's on #android can code. 2) He's on #android. Ergo, he can't code. |
| 20:05.10 | neekers | did we go through day light savings time change recently?? |
| 20:05.19 | BruteSource | yes |
| 20:05.29 | neekers | when did that happen? |
| 20:05.35 | benley | last night |
| 20:05.38 | DarkriftX | neekers, yeah, last night had an interesting bug in here |
| 20:05.38 | lethalcode | neekers: At 2am. |
| 20:05.40 | benley | I just noticed it a few minutes ago :-P |
| 20:05.43 | BruteSource | 2am in your time zone |
| 20:05.45 | neekers | oh.. thanks :o) |
| 20:05.58 | DarkriftX | someone had the home clock showing 12:59 and the screen lock clock showing 01:40 |
| 20:06.55 | neekers | i guess i slept an extra hour and didnt even know it |
| 20:07.01 | DarkriftX | lol |
| 20:08.03 | *** join/#android michaelnovakjr__ (n=chatzill@ool-18ba6e83.dyn.optonline.net) |
| 20:10.51 | *** join/#android ka (n=tony@pool-72-81-144-103.bltmmd.east.verizon.net) |
| 20:13.33 | *** join/#android trigatch4 (n=robjacks@c-68-49-101-231.hsd1.md.comcast.net) |
| 20:13.44 | *** join/#android cbeust (n=cbeust@64-142-66-175.dsl.static.sonic.net) |
| 20:14.03 | trigatch4 | jasonchen: you around? |
| 20:14.07 | morrildl | BruteSource: knock it off. I'm not in a 3-strikes sort of mood |
| 20:14.21 | trigatch4 | oooh dan, whats up... need your help if you have a couple minutes |
| 20:14.27 | morrildl | trigatch4: sure, what's up |
| 20:15.06 | trigatch4 | so on AndroidForums.com, members were asking me about "Android Robot" gear... |
| 20:15.12 | trigatch4 | like t-shirts and stuff like that |
| 20:15.16 | trigatch4 | I wanted to give some away |
| 20:15.26 | trigatch4 | but a Google Staffer stopped by on PMed me |
| 20:15.53 | trigatch4 | and said that my idea to set up a "Cafe Press Store", using proceeds to fund Forum giveaways... was a bad idea |
| 20:16.18 | Disconnect | evidently only DJTachyon can do that. with his huge piles of semi-identical stuff on 3 different stores :) |
| 20:16.37 | trigatch4 | hahah yeah i saw him do that |
| 20:16.39 | Disconnect | fwiw they are being serious about the android fonts - the droid is CC but the fonts aren't. |
| 20:17.06 | trigatch4 | but i wanted to have a discussion with someone who could actuall approve/disapprove or give the actual low down on the showdown |
| 20:17.13 | *** join/#android cbeust (n=cbeust@64-142-66-175.dsl.static.sonic.net) |
| 20:17.15 | trigatch4 | didn't want to do anything out of speculation |
| 20:17.25 | morrildl | trigatch4: well, first things first -- did you check out the "branding guidelines"? |
| 20:17.35 | trigatch4 | yeah i saw those |
| 20:17.38 | morrildl | okay |
| 20:17.43 | DarkriftX | i wanted one of those android plush figures :( |
| 20:17.53 | morrildl | so in a nutshell, the green bug droid is creative-commons |
| 20:18.06 | morrildl | 'Android' itself is a registered trademark and we have to protect it |
| 20:18.29 | DarkriftX | or better yet, a 3d little android robot |
| 20:19.01 | trigatch4 | so the "bug droid" (i call it robot haha)... what does creative-commons allow? |
| 20:19.16 | morrildl | trigatch4: you can do whatever you want with the bug droid, more or less |
| 20:19.20 | trigatch4 | because it says "marketing communications" but i would consider cafe press store going beyond that |
| 20:19.24 | *** join/#android roxfan2 (n=dunno@197.175-243-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be) |
| 20:19.29 | morrildl | you know, we need to change that phrase |
| 20:19.40 | morrildl | you're the second person who has interpreted that to mean more than we intend it to mean |
| 20:19.48 | trigatch4 | okay so i'm pretty much free game to use it |
| 20:19.52 | morrildl | the branding guidelines were written for like companies to use |
| 20:19.54 | trigatch4 | anything i should be aware of |
| 20:19.57 | trigatch4 | that i can't use the robot in? |
| 20:19.59 | morrildl | and they think of all that stuff as "marketing communications" so.... |
| 20:20.08 | morrildl | robot is free game |
| 20:20.21 | morrildl | the bug droid is more of our mascot than a part of the "branding" |
| 20:20.28 | DarkriftX | nice |
| 20:20.50 | morrildl | The name Android, and in particular the the curvy font face thing is off limits |
| 20:21.10 | morrildl | but, if you want to print up t-shirts that say "Android rules" with the bug droid or something, that might be possible |
| 20:21.20 | DarkriftX | why doesnt google put out more stuff with that though |
| 20:21.23 | morrildl | if you want to check in on specific ideas, feel free to email me |
| 20:21.29 | morrildl | DarkriftX: good question :) |
| 20:21.43 | DarkriftX | im not wanting to make or sell them, just buy them lol |
| 20:21.45 | trigatch4 | yeah i noticed that "android" itself isn't supposed to be used in domains either |
| 20:21.59 | trigatch4 | thinking i should probably put in an official submission notifying on that |
| 20:21.59 | morrildl | trigatch4: actually that's not really true |
| 20:22.09 | DarkriftX | *whew* |
| 20:22.10 | morrildl | see also androidcommunity.com etc. |
| 20:22.12 | *** join/#android mocsrox (n=wliu@c-76-126-218-157.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
| 20:22.27 | morrildl | obviously we would object to "officialandroid.com" or something :) |
| 20:22.34 | trigatch4 | right |
| 20:22.57 | morrildl | anyway I gotta run for a bit |
| 20:22.59 | trigatch4 | okay well looks like that clears everything up |
| 20:23.02 | trigatch4 | thanks for your help man |
| 20:23.05 | morrildl | np |
| 20:23.15 | DarkriftX | tell google to make us some more android stuff! |
| 20:23.20 | morrildl | if you want more detailed or perhaps private info, please feel free to email me |
| 20:23.28 | morrildl | DarkriftX: noted, I will look into it :) |
| 20:23.50 | morrildl | I wonder if we could get the proceeds routed to a computer science charity or something, that would rock |
| 20:23.57 | DarkriftX | like a little android figure with a crushed microsoft butteryfly in his hand behind his back and an evil grin |
| 20:24.20 | mocsrox | is there a preferred way to detect orientation change on the android? |
| 20:24.20 | morrildl | DarkriftX: yeah I'm going to go ahead right now and say that's never going to happen ;) |
| 20:24.36 | DarkriftX | of course not |
| 20:24.43 | morrildl | anyway gotta boogie, be back later |
| 20:26.51 | *** join/#android galtoid (i=galtoid@168.sub-75-217-16.myvzw.com) |
| 20:28.36 | Chicago | How do I patch Android with Martin's mobile-linux/kernel.git tree? I am trying to build the development kernel http://it029000.massey.ac.nz/vogue/ |
| 20:30.46 | *** join/#android dglazkov (n=dglazkov@c-24-130-144-56.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
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| 20:38.48 | *** join/#android vbabiy (n=vbabiy@pool-71-244-118-18.albyny.fios.verizon.net) |
| 20:44.31 | *** join/#android bdjnk (n=bdjnk@71-212-69-70.tukw.qwest.net) |
| 20:46.46 | DJTachyon | how do i know if i got the security patch or not? |
| 20:47.32 | *** join/#android ben_ (n=chatzill@75-168-244-49.mpls.qwest.net) |
| 20:48.10 | DarkriftX | something about using anycut to make a shortcut to device info i think |
| 20:48.25 | romainguy_ | no need |
| 20:48.32 | romainguy_ | you can look at the build number in settings > about phone |
| 20:48.41 | DJTachyon | thats what i figured |
| 20:48.46 | DJTachyon | what version am i looking for? |
| 20:48.47 | ben_ | anyone know if you can set sound volumes for calls, sms, and im separately on the G1? |
| 20:48.51 | DarkriftX | romainguy_, does the android font have a name? |
| 20:48.58 | romainguy_ | Droid |
| 20:48.58 | DJTachyon | yes |
| 20:49.00 | romainguy_ | well |
| 20:49.01 | DJTachyon | and its trademarked |
| 20:49.03 | DarkriftX | ok |
| 20:49.07 | romainguy_ | at least the font used on the phone is called Droid |
| 20:49.10 | romainguy_ | and that one is free to use |
| 20:49.12 | DJTachyon | Droid Sans |
| 20:49.16 | romainguy_ | but the android logo font, no idea |
| 20:49.17 | DarkriftX | not the one on the phone |
| 20:49.19 | DarkriftX | the one on the logo |
| 20:49.19 | DJTachyon | ohhh right |
| 20:49.20 | DarkriftX | ok |
| 20:49.23 | Disconnect | DJTachyon: 28 iirc. the original version is 18 or 19, new one is high-20s (28, 29?) |
| 20:49.24 | DJTachyon | yeah thats trademarked |
| 20:49.29 | *** join/#android DannyB (n=dannyb@c-69-139-151-245.hsd1.md.comcast.net) |
| 20:49.39 | romainguy_ | the latest update should be TC4 RC29 |
| 20:49.41 | DarkriftX | i know it cannot be used, but someone was asking the name of it |
| 20:49.55 | DJTachyon | yeah im RC19 |
| 20:49.57 | Disconnect | DJTachyon: and you can install it from sd (i got tired of waiting) |
| 20:50.23 | DJTachyon | ah |
| 20:50.31 | DJTachyon | well im getting a new phone next week |
| 20:50.33 | trigatch4 | Disconnect: T-Mobile said update at your own risk, if you do the update manually then they won't be responsible fro anything that happens to your phone |
| 20:50.34 | DJTachyon | so i dont care much |
| 20:50.41 | trigatch4 | DJTachyon: why? |
| 20:50.49 | DJTachyon | accelerometer/compass package is broken |
| 20:51.01 | DJTachyon | =/ |
| 20:51.08 | DarkriftX | nice, that means you can test the hell out of it without worry :) |
| 20:51.12 | DJTachyon | lol |
| 20:51.27 | DJTachyon | custom builds, custom apps, using it as a basemall |
| 20:51.29 | DJTachyon | ball* |
| 20:51.38 | DarkriftX | my thoughts exactly |
| 20:51.52 | DarkriftX | "sorry, im not sure why its burnt... must be that defective compass" |
| 20:52.09 | DJTachyon | yeah the compass led me into a volcano |
| 20:52.14 | DarkriftX | lol |
| 20:52.44 | DJTachyon | yeah if i use compass mode, it just looks at the ground |
| 20:52.57 | DJTachyon | and if i try accelerometer games, it either crashes or pacman just heads into a wall |
| 20:53.11 | Disconnect | DJTachyon: try bubble level. |
| 20:53.26 | Disconnect | (its pretty slick, and a lot easier than pushing my mbp against walls all the time) |
| 20:53.34 | DJTachyon | bubble level? |
| 20:53.38 | Disconnect | in the appstore |
| 20:53.41 | Disconnect | 'bubble' |
| 20:53.47 | DJTachyon | looking |
| 20:54.06 | DJTachyon | so i was in nyc last night and reception was wacky |
| 20:54.22 | DJTachyon | 4 Bars of 3G to Nothing for 5 minutes to 4 bars of EDGE and back again |
| 20:54.37 | Disconnect | weird |
| 20:54.55 | DJTachyon | langish was saying he was having problems in nyc too |
| 20:55.39 | DJTachyon | bubble is a good idea |
| 20:55.44 | DJTachyon | oh well this doesnt work well lol |
| 20:56.00 | DJTachyon | it just sticks in one spot |
| 20:56.07 | DJTachyon | a little up and to the left |
| 20:56.14 | DJTachyon | and doesnt move no matter what i do |
| 20:56.15 | Disconnect | might just be crowded, plus tons of reflections and such. you'd think they retested (for the new freqs) but they can't have nearly the testing coverage they got from standard gsm over the years |
| 20:57.22 | Disconnect | hey so how is everyone handling passing db refs around between activities? i was just reopening it and got a reference-leak crash (actually worse, it opened twice on boot rather than creating the activity when i hit the button to switch screens) |
| 21:00.17 | *** join/#android `vip (n=denied@m525e36d0.tmodns.net) |
| 21:02.10 | *** join/#android yakischloba (n=jake@209.160.56.254) |
| 21:03.26 | *** part/#android dcordes-kais (n=dcordes-@ip-90-187-117-35.web.vodafone.de) |
| 21:07.15 | *** join/#android Adamant (n=Adamant@c-98-244-152-196.hsd1.ga.comcast.net) |
| 21:08.54 | *** join/#android unix_infidel (n=blue@unaffiliated/unixinfidel/x-8383745) |
| 21:11.15 | DJTachyon | omg F*CKING EA .. |
| 21:11.15 | *** join/#android roxfan (n=dunno@197.175-243-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be) |
| 21:11.27 | DJTachyon | I just bought Red Alert 3 .. and the key doesnt work |
| 21:11.35 | DJTachyon | why do I even bother? |
| 21:11.50 | DJTachyon | another hit to DRM ... my god. |
| 21:11.58 | roxfan | pwned by drm |
| 21:12.05 | DJTachyon | ind33d |
| 21:13.05 | Disconnect | random side note. amazon's support (on my 2nd or third try last week) eventually told me to just repurchase any corrupted/missing downloads and they'd redownload w/o rebilling. seems to have worked. (original answer was "this never happens to anyone, you should call in and wait on hold. call from a different line and be prepared to spend 30 mins or more"etc..) |
| 21:13.11 | *** join/#android RyeBrye (n=ryebrye@160.7.248.108) |
| 21:13.23 | DJTachyon | *shakes head* |
| 21:13.36 | *** join/#android rwhitby` (n=rwhitby@au1.astc-design.com) |
| 21:13.50 | DJTachyon | wait a second |
| 21:13.57 | DJTachyon | there is a god damn character missing in this key |
| 21:14.10 | Disconnect | enough cussing, esp OT cussing.... |
| 21:14.21 | DJTachyon | does anybody here have RA3? |
| 21:14.26 | Disconnect | you can talk about the damned layout xml tho :) |
| 21:14.30 | DJTachyon | lol |
| 21:25.19 | *** join/#android malaclyps (n=danny@c-24-5-187-110.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
| 21:29.54 | trigatch4 | hey DJTachyon |
| 21:30.03 | trigatch4 | where is the largest image of the robot you could find? |
| 21:30.33 | Disconnect | there's no vector robots? :( |
| 21:31.22 | trigatch4 | if there are, i don't know where they are |
| 21:31.30 | trigatch4 | george jetson must be hiding it somewhere |
| 21:37.22 | *** join/#android duey (n=duey@203.96.223.40) |
| 21:40.08 | trigatch4 | anybody? |
| 21:40.23 | *** join/#android daniell (n=daniel@86.85.93.210) |
| 21:42.19 | Disconnect | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Android-logo.svg |
| 21:43.00 | Disconnect | enjoy :) |
| 21:43.55 | kaner | erm. are the docs available somewhere for offline-use, i am doing wget -r currently |
| 21:44.07 | romainguy_ | they're in the SDK |
| 21:44.08 | Disconnect | which docs? |
| 21:44.14 | Disconnect | code docs are part of the sdk yah |
| 21:44.53 | kaner | they are? heh |
| 21:44.56 | kaner | reference as well? |
| 21:45.25 | *** part/#android daniell (n=daniel@86.85.93.210) |
| 21:45.30 | kaner | they are. |
| 21:47.37 | *** join/#android `vip_ (n=denied@m125e36d0.tmodns.net) |
| 21:55.32 | *** join/#android ``vip (n=denied@m125e36d0.tmodns.net) |
| 21:57.48 | RyeBrye | Hmm... There don't seem to be any good opensource readers of mobipocket files :( |
| 21:57.55 | RyeBrye | (on any platform) |
| 21:58.36 | RyeBrye | http://www.multicellphone.com/sandisk-128gb-microsdhc-card-to-be-released-within-3-years/ Any chance android will support this? |
| 21:58.52 | RyeBrye | (in the G1) |
| 21:59.08 | offby1 | in three years the G1 will be given away in Cracker Jacks boxes. |
| 21:59.11 | DarkriftX | lol |
| 21:59.15 | RyeBrye | Yes, that's true |
| 21:59.16 | DarkriftX | tthats about what i was thinking |
| 21:59.29 | DarkriftX | how about ask "will the g7 support this?" |
| 21:59.31 | michaelnovakjr__ | what's the largest sdcard size available for the G1 now? |
| 21:59.37 | DarkriftX | 16gb? |
| 21:59.38 | ``vip | hopefully the "G2" will look better |
| 21:59.40 | RyeBrye | I htink 16 |
| 21:59.41 | Disconnect | RyeBrye: mobi w/ drm is a closed format. so no, no open source readers... |
| 21:59.44 | michaelnovakjr__ | nice |
| 21:59.58 | michaelnovakjr__ | i'll have to pick up a 16GB one then :) |
| 22:00.01 | RyeBrye | Disconnect - mobi without DRM is what I'm looking for |
| 22:00.03 | DarkriftX | heh |
| 22:00.08 | Disconnect | and yah, supposedly the beauty of sdhc is once you support it you are golden out to the limits of size. |
| 22:00.38 | RyeBrye | That's cool |
| 22:00.48 | Disconnect | RyeBrye: fbreader has been ported all over, does non-drm mobi iirc. |
| 22:01.02 | RyeBrye | fbreader works on android? Cool. I'll look at that |
| 22:01.03 | Disconnect | (er, limits of sdhc rather. which is prolly something like 512g but i don't recall off the top of my head) |
| 22:01.23 | RyeBrye | A 512G FAT-32 formatted SD card, wont that be a site to see |
| 22:01.58 | Disconnect | according to wikipedia "SDHC: 1 GB to 64 GB [1] (theoretical max for SDHC is 2 TB.)" |
| 22:02.26 | RyeBrye | I want a 2 TB SDHC card... now |
| 22:02.30 | DarkriftX | nice, a 2TB postage stamp :) |
| 22:02.32 | RyeBrye | Oh wait... it wouldn't do much good |
| 22:02.55 | RyeBrye | I want... a 2 TB SDHC card and anrdoid to store apps on the SDHC card.... now... |
| 22:03.33 | Disconnect | RyeBrye: don't you want a 2tb micro-sdhc instead? so that it'd work in the phone (potentially)? |
| 22:04.22 | RyeBrye | Oh, yes |
| 22:04.22 | Disconnect | being able to plug it in is a good first step :) |
| 22:04.22 | RyeBrye | That too :) |
| 22:04.22 | RyeBrye | Well... I could run wires out to the SDHC if I had to :) |
| 22:04.22 | Disconnect | and still close the door? its got a mag sensor :( |
| 22:04.45 | DarkriftX | the sensor can be tricked :P |
| 22:05.02 | Disconnect | ok but i'm not making any progress fixing my stupid db problem. i can't open it twice cuz that makes too much sense. and i can't close it cuz the listview requires a working cursor. hmm. |
| 22:05.25 | romainguy_ | Disconnect: use a ContentProvider? |
| 22:06.34 | Disconnect | anyone else have wacky problems with the music app btw? it acts like a crazy cd player stuck on 'intro' .. skips forward randomly and totally loses track of where it was (eg if you hit ff/rw you can walk - eg - 1 2 [3] 4 5 .. up to 4, back to 3, 2.. even on shuffle. but when it skips it totally resets the history.) |
| 22:07.10 | michaelnovakjr__ | Disconnect: why not make your own listview adapter? |
| 22:07.17 | michaelnovakjr__ | extend it i mean |
| 22:08.12 | Disconnect | michaelnovakjr_: the stock one works fine for me. all i need to do is open a dialog to take a new entry and dump it into the db. (i didn't expect that to be hard :( ..) |
| 22:09.17 | *** join/#android andyross (n=andy@static-71-245-107-194.ptldor.fios.verizon.net) |
| 22:09.39 | michaelnovakjr__ | you can pastebin code if you need help |
| 22:09.52 | Disconnect | someone refresh me so i don't have to dig out my java book. how do i flag a class such that it only gets instantiated once and each future reference uses the same one? that'd prolly solve it. (yes i know, its got a specific name but i can't recall. and while java isn't my first.. or third.. programming language i'm at heart a procedural guy :) ..) |
| 22:12.35 | Ramblurr | Disconnect: singleton behahavior |
| 22:13.55 | Disconnect | cool thats perfect. thanks :) |
| 22:14.11 | RyeBrye | Disconnect - you don't really 'flag the class' - you just have to remove a public constructor from the class and create a static getInstance() method that returns the object - with getInstance responsible for creating it if it doesn't already exist or returning the created one if it does |
| 22:14.13 | Disconnect | prolly won't work (my luck has been that way this weekend) but i'll try it anyway :) |
| 22:14.33 | RyeBrye | although if you are wanting it to be thread safe you do have to be a little bit more careful about how you go about things |
| 22:14.41 | Disconnect | RyeBrye: yah i found http://www.javaworld.com/javaworld/jw-04-2003/jw-0425-designpatterns.html which is perfect. :) |
| 22:14.46 | andyross | Or have it not be an object at all and just make a class with a bunch of static methods. That often works better, and is simpler. |
| 22:15.14 | andyross | The dance involved with making a private constructor and a factory method just to have a bunch of static stuff seems silly to me. |
| 22:17.13 | michaelnovakjr__ | when does the onCreateOptionsMenu function get called on an activity... it was working and now no longer does.... i added a debug line in the method and its not printing either |
| 22:18.09 | elad | is it possible to modify phone settings via an app? like if i mage an app that had a toggle button that could toggle between 3g and 2g? |
| 22:18.48 | RyeBrye | I think so - toggler does just that for lots of other settings |
| 22:18.53 | Disconnect | elad: isn't "togglesettings" or "toggle" or something like that already in the market? |
| 22:18.56 | Disconnect | yah toggler thats it |
| 22:19.05 | elad | bah ;/ |
| 22:19.33 | RyeBrye | it toggles wifi / gps / silent mode / root access / scren never times out ... etc |
| 22:19.36 | Disconnect | and fyi it was nice to see locale light up with some new functionality the other day. :) |
| 22:19.45 | RyeBrye | What functionality was that? |
| 22:20.17 | Disconnect | istr it can change ringtones, backgrounds etc now. something like 5-6 more knobs. |
| 22:20.22 | RyeBrye | oh |
| 22:20.29 | RyeBrye | Yeah, I saw that |
| 22:24.57 | RyeBrye | I gave into the fact that this device battery is not so great and I bought a mini USB car charger yesterday |
| 22:25.11 | RyeBrye | so pretty much I will just use the battery to temporarily shuttle it between being tethered to a power connection |
| 22:26.58 | DarkriftX | thats how all my devices work :) |
| 22:28.26 | michaelnovakjr__ | i just went two days on the battery :) |
| 22:28.27 | RyeBrye | Does the G1 use the same model battery as any other phones, or is it unique to it? |
| 22:28.33 | RyeBrye | michaelnovakjr - you lie |
| 22:28.36 | RyeBrye | :) |
| 22:28.58 | *** join/#android zodttd (n=me@user-142gtg7.cable.mindspring.com) |
| 22:29.07 | michaelnovakjr__ | RyeBrye: nope :) |
| 22:29.13 | offby1 | RyeBrye: ooh! car charger. Sounds like a good idea. Got a link? |
| 22:29.25 | RyeBrye | I picked one up at wal-mart for $9 |
| 22:29.29 | *** join/#android trigatch4 (n=robjacks@c-68-33-22-200.hsd1.md.comcast.net) |
| 22:29.55 | RyeBrye | It says it's for RAZRs or Blackberry Pearls - or a few other devices, but it's basically just a mini-usb plug |
| 22:29.58 | BruteSource | walmart.com |
| 22:30.01 | RyeBrye | I haven't tested it yet, but I'm pretty sure it will work |
| 22:30.34 | BruteSource | probably wont since almost all devices need a different voltage and amperage |
| 22:31.12 | RyeBrye | BruteSource - no, it probably will, since it's using mini USB and it will just take whatever it's given and charge on it |
| 22:31.12 | Disconnect | ..right. because miniusb is just a random collection of voltages. its not solid 5v at 500-1000 mwatts or anything. |
| 22:31.45 | RyeBrye | It is a conspiracy that devices from 3 different manufacturers just happen to be listed on the box as the ones that it offically supports |
| 22:31.57 | BruteSource | no, thats not how electronics work, thats why i cant use my razr charger on my excalibur, or my psp charger |
| 22:32.00 | Disconnect | (fyi i am using a blackberry charger on mine no prob, tmob sold it to me with the belt case. and its been charged off a bt headset miniusb charger, as well as an AC-usb adapter + cable that came from my ebook reader.) |
| 22:32.28 | morrildl | DJTachyon: you want RC29 or later |
| 22:33.07 | Disconnect | bb devices are crazy in that they require talkback before they go into charge mode (without that some will trickle-charge, some won't do anything) but the charger doesn't care what the device is on the other end otherwise. |
| 22:33.51 | BruteSource | its tge device that cares what voltage it gets, needs to match whats on the battery |
| 22:34.14 | RyeBrye | Yeah, it it just said RAZR I wouldn't have gotten the charger - but since it listed both BB curve, BB pearl, and Razr VR, SLVR... etc. - I figured it was truly basically a mini-usb charger and not some funky RAZR only thing |
| 22:34.16 | *** join/#android mr_daniel (n=sysrq@e177153171.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 22:34.19 | Disconnect | you realize that every single usb port on every computer that has one is 5v, and will not supply any other voltage no matter what, right? |
| 22:34.22 | RyeBrye | Well, it charges fine on my USB port |
| 22:34.59 | BruteSource | ya because your computer can manage the output voltage and give it what it wants |
| 22:35.03 | Disconnect | (and you need a daemon - or driver for windows, and istr it ships w/ osx - to get blackberries to charge off a pc because of that talkback) |
| 22:35.10 | BruteSource | an ac adapter cant |
| 22:35.16 | Disconnect | no.. no it doesn't. if you get more than 5v off a usb port its because its BROKEN |
| 22:35.41 | BruteSource | no your wrong, the driver tels it what voltaage to use |
| 22:35.48 | BruteSource | tells |
| 22:35.51 | RyeBrye | No, I'm positive you are wrong |
| 22:35.55 | Disconnect | http://www.hardwarebook.info/Universal_Serial_Bus_(USB) |
| 22:36.02 | BruteSource | well you are a fool |
| 22:36.05 | Disconnect | 4.75 to 5.25 is in-spec. and its not controllable. |
| 22:36.13 | elad | anyone know of a good mouse for a laptop |
| 22:36.20 | RyeBrye | And that's interesting about the driver being needed for windows - I plugged in my BB into my mac USB all the time to charge it without any drivers |
| 22:36.31 | BruteSource | drivers include power managment interupts to control output voltage |
| 22:36.33 | Disconnect | RyeBrye: yah osx ships it i think. part of isync. |
| 22:36.44 | RyeBrye | cool |
| 22:36.48 | Disconnect | BruteSource: ..thats not control output voltage. thats turn off the port and/or put the device into power saving mode |
| 22:36.49 | BruteSource | straight from wiki |
| 22:36.59 | Disconnect | waits for a link |
| 22:37.01 | BruteSource | your incorrect |
| 22:37.03 | morrildl | BruteSource: that doesn't even make any sense |
| 22:37.24 | morrildl | do you even know what an interrupt is? |
| 22:37.25 | Disconnect | http://answers.google.com/answers/threadview/id/748155.html |
| 22:37.56 | DarkriftX | lol, here we go again |
| 22:38.06 | Disconnect | nah cuz i'm eating |
| 22:39.04 | BruteSource | This kid get schooled so much, im suprised he even comes on here anymore. |
| 22:39.12 | rwhitby | gets out the popcorn |
| 22:39.25 | Disconnect | although its funny watching him sit on his WM phone badmouthing windows users (I don't think there even are any here, except him..) |
| 22:39.29 | offby1 | passes the salt |
| 22:39.31 | BruteSource | I think i will just ignore him this time |
| 22:39.32 | morrildl | BruteSource: as far as I'm concerned you're a troll |
| 22:39.37 | morrildl | I don't really have time to deal with trolls |
| 22:39.45 | morrildl | knock it off or you'll be banned |
| 22:39.49 | DarkriftX | lol |
| 22:40.04 | DarkriftX | steals some popcorn |
| 22:40.08 | elad | mirrildl: i think that is strike2 :) |
| 22:40.13 | DarkriftX | adds LOTS of butter and salt |
| 22:40.14 | michaelnovakjr__ | stike |
| 22:40.16 | michaelnovakjr__ | 3 |
| 22:40.25 | morrildl | elad: yeah and I already said I'm not in a 3-strikes sort of mood :) |
| 22:40.25 | BruteSource | lmao im so scared of an uneducated person that is trolling themself calling me a troll. |
| 22:40.25 | DarkriftX | strike what? |
| 22:40.38 | BruteSource | he thinks he is an op |
| 22:40.42 | BruteSource | lmao |
| 22:40.52 | languish | o.O |
| 22:40.56 | languish | here we go again |
| 22:40.59 | DarkriftX | :S |
| 22:41.04 | michaelnovakjr__ | just kick em |
| 22:41.08 | rwhitby | checks BruteSource's blood alcohol level ... |
| 22:41.08 | elad | steals a sip from Dark's dr. pepper |
| 22:41.10 | DarkriftX | shit |
| 22:41.13 | elad | :o |
| 22:41.14 | DarkriftX | how do you turn off xchat ignore |
| 22:41.17 | BruteSource | it is okay i ignored him already |
| 22:41.23 | umdk1d3 | Disconnect: /ignore -nick |
| 22:41.30 | umdk1d3 | maybe, i think |
| 22:41.41 | *** kick/#android [BruteSource!n=morrildl@72.14.224.1] by morrildl (morrildl) |
| 22:41.43 | Disconnect | haha how do you look at someone who -already has ops- active in the channel and say "he's not an op" |
| 22:41.45 | DarkriftX | damnit |
| 22:41.46 | umdk1d3 | =D |
| 22:41.48 | DarkriftX | i missed the good shit |
| 22:41.48 | *** mode/#android [+b brutesource!*@*] by morrildl |
| 22:41.52 | delinka | you can't /ignore kicks :P |
| 22:42.04 | DarkriftX | i know, but i missed him talking shit back, and i KNOW he was |
| 22:42.12 | languish | this is brutesource's nightly thing |
| 22:42.12 | DarkriftX | he told swetland off for like 3 hours the other night |
| 22:42.24 | DarkriftX | then he came in the next day saying he was sorry because he was drunk |
| 22:42.27 | morrildl | DarkriftX: I highly doubt that ;) |
| 22:42.36 | DarkriftX | ask him |
| 22:42.49 | morrildl | DarkriftX: No I'm sure he TALKED to swetland for 3 hours |
| 22:42.52 | languish | he picks one thing to argue about, goes on about it for awhile, then apologizes and "admits he was wrong" when he gets tired of playing |
| 22:42.57 | morrildl | but I highly doubt anyone other than him thinks he told him off ;) |
| 22:43.03 | umdk1d3 | now you just hope that he doesnt have some sort of botnet to try getting revenge with |
| 22:43.04 | pawalls | morrildl, I'm not sure a nick ban is very effective ;-) |
| 22:43.08 | morrildl | is currently figuring out whether it's safe to ban that IP |
| 22:43.25 | DarkriftX | he kept saying swetland was fake and should stop pretending to be related to google |
| 22:43.34 | Disconnect | its tmob edge :( |
| 22:43.45 | morrildl | yeah probably not |
| 22:43.59 | Disconnect | file a complaint with his isp :) |
| 22:44.00 | rwhitby | morrildl: yeah, BruteSource was no match for swetland the other night. |
| 22:44.12 | languish | i really wish tmo would assign static ip's. it'd make life so much easier |
| 22:44.14 | DarkriftX | it was very entertaining to say the least |
| 22:44.37 | rwhitby | DarkriftX: best laugh I'd had all week |
| 22:44.43 | DarkriftX | i know lol |
| 22:44.48 | gambler | rwhitby, you need to get out mroe |
| 22:45.08 | DarkriftX | <PROTECTED> |
| 22:45.14 | rwhitby | needs a laugh this morning, after spending the weekend on a cub scout camp with 2000 kids. |
| 22:45.18 | DarkriftX | he never changes his ident |
| 22:45.31 | DarkriftX | ouch, that sounds like a pain |
| 22:45.39 | DarkriftX | i hope they were at least 12yrs old |
| 22:45.45 | rwhitby | DarkriftX: 6 to 10 |
| 22:45.47 | DarkriftX | younger then that and id shoot myself |
| 22:45.59 | DarkriftX | the older ones would require less babying |
| 22:46.14 | Disconnect | DarkriftX: 12-16 is prolly brutesource's age tho |
| 22:46.15 | rwhitby | nah, I ruled my troop of 42 with an iron fist :-) |
| 22:46.20 | DarkriftX | LOL |
| 22:46.37 | *** part/#android schmylan (n=schmylan@ppp-70-251-102-129.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net) |
| 22:46.50 | *** join/#android schmylan (n=schmylan@ppp-70-251-102-129.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net) |
| 22:47.17 | rwhitby | Disconnect: yeah, I think all the kids on the weekend were more mature than BruteSource |
| 22:47.42 | *** join/#android meoblast001 (n=meoblast@dynamic-acs-24-239-93-241.zoominternet.net) |
| 22:47.47 | morrildl | If we keep talking about BruteSource, the terrorists win ;) |
| 22:48.45 | rwhitby | maybe we can just shorten it to BS - quite a fitting contraction I think ... |
| 22:48.52 | *** mode/#android [+b *!*BruceSou*@*] by morrildl |
| 22:49.08 | morrildl | DarkriftX: thanks, that ban pattern looks good |
| 22:49.10 | Disconnect | if we don't DOS him off the net, he'll just go annoy someone else. |
| 22:49.23 | Disconnect | so really, in this case, a basic DOS is for the greater good. |
| 22:49.26 | *** mode/#android [+b *!*BruteSou*@*] by morrildl |
| 22:49.39 | languish | Disconnect, you'd be dossing t-mobile. :/ |
| 22:49.45 | DarkriftX | hey morrildl how did you do that? you just think you are an op |
| 22:49.46 | Disconnect | won't someone -please- think of the -children- he might be bothering? |
| 22:49.57 | Disconnect | languish: just his ip. i doubt tmob has only enough bw for 1 user at a time :) |
| 22:50.00 | morrildl | cannot advocate a DoS. |
| 22:50.12 | Disconnect | morrildl: ..but you can watch one? :) |
| 22:50.18 | morrildl | DarkriftX: well, if you really set your mind to it, you can do anything you want ;) |
| 22:50.20 | DarkriftX | yes you can, denial of android service, wheres that killswitch at? |
| 22:51.09 | Disconnect | he's on windows mobile |
| 22:51.20 | rwhitby | string.compare(username, "BruteSource") && exit |
| 22:51.22 | DarkriftX | he put android on his wm phone |
| 22:51.28 | *** join/#android Sorium (i=Sorium@dhcp0222.hil.resnet.group.upenn.edu) |
| 22:51.32 | Sorium | you guys post on any android forums/ |
| 22:51.44 | DarkriftX | post what? |
| 22:51.46 | Disconnect | DarkriftX: ...you really believe that? given that he was using a wm irc client... |
| 22:51.50 | languish | Sorium, sure.. to what purpose are you asking? |
| 22:51.54 | DarkriftX | not sure Disconnect |
| 22:52.25 | Disconnect | would post but he can't get his account activated (and the forum admins are awol or at least ignoring my reqs) |
| 22:52.38 | morrildl | Disconnect: ? |
| 22:52.40 | morrildl | which forum? |
| 22:52.46 | Sorium | Android community forums, just wonderin what kinds of forums if anyone post on them. unless u just chill in this chat |
| 22:52.56 | Disconnect | androidcommunity.com |
| 22:53.03 | morrildl | Disconnect: ah |
| 22:53.07 | Disconnect | sent a bunch of emails, pms, etc. no response. |
| 22:53.12 | morrildl | never mind then, not my problem :) |
| 22:53.13 | Disconnect | never got the activation email and there is no 'resend' button |
| 22:53.21 | languish | Sorium, I post in a few, including androidcommunity.com's forums, and the forums.t-mobile .com forums |
| 22:53.25 | DarkriftX | Disconnect, which forums? |
| 22:53.33 | DarkriftX | oh lol |
| 22:53.35 | DarkriftX | already been asked |
| 22:53.39 | michaelnovakjr__ | haha |
| 22:53.55 | DarkriftX | androidcommunity.com, android-dls.com, xda-developers and i think thats about it |
| 22:54.36 | languish | i know plusminus hangs out here, he runs the anddev forums.. i forget if the androdcommunity admin hangs here too |
| 22:54.40 | Sorium | awesome |
| 22:54.45 | Sorium | i just wnat to hang where the developers hang |
| 22:54.50 | languish | and DarkriftX runs the android-dls.com forums |
| 22:54.56 | Sorium | this shit is the future |
| 22:55.02 | DarkriftX | doesnt develop anything |
| 22:55.15 | Sorium | yea DarkriftX is the man, he showed me his forums last night |
| 22:56.05 | Sorium | so far, there's about 0 tutorials out there except the one provided by google |
| 22:56.16 | languish | Sorium, there are a number of them |
| 22:56.32 | Sorium | show me 1 |
| 22:56.45 | morrildl | "android-dis"? |
| 22:56.46 | Sorium | i've seen some here or there, but nothing totally comprehensive |
| 22:56.47 | languish | start here http://www.anddev.org/index.php?c=2 |
| 22:56.50 | morrildl | what is that, "why I hate Android"? |
| 22:56.54 | morrildl | "Android one-liners"? |
| 22:57.11 | languish | morrildl, dls |
| 22:57.15 | morrildl | ohhhhh |
| 22:57.16 | Sorium | what about the iPhone/ |
| 22:57.20 | morrildl | stupid fonts |
| 22:57.23 | languish | lol |
| 22:57.26 | Sorium | i'm betting it all on Android guys |
| 22:57.46 | DarkriftX | lol morrildl |
| 22:57.49 | DarkriftX | i like that |
| 22:58.03 | DarkriftX | i should register android-dis.com and tell all those asses on androidcommunity to go there and bitch |
| 22:58.20 | DarkriftX | i stopped reading that forum because of all the complaint threads |
| 22:58.31 | languish | oh, then you should /ignore me |
| 22:58.33 | languish | :P |
| 22:58.41 | DarkriftX | you at least try to be constructive about it |
| 22:58.45 | Disconnect | doesn't complain, he files bugs |
| 22:59.04 | Disconnect | but fwiw the current software load is full of fail |
| 22:59.23 | languish | heh |
| 22:59.26 | *** join/#android borism_ (n=boris@195-50-200-185-dsl.krw.estpak.ee) |
| 22:59.46 | Disconnect | i'm really afraid of what'll happen when it goes properly mass-market via walmart. could (might.. :/ ..) destroy its commercial viability in one swell foop. |
| 23:00.00 | Sorium | XDA-developers is OK |
| 23:00.14 | DarkriftX | nah, most walmart buyers wouldnt know enough to tell a bug from a feature |
| 23:00.16 | Sorium | but the android dev community is really small it looks like |
| 23:00.22 | Sorium | thats true |
| 23:00.25 | Disconnect | cuz if you give this thing to people for christmas they're gonna freak and punch you in the face |
| 23:00.32 | michaelnovakjr__ | why |
| 23:00.32 | DarkriftX | oh, the keyboard doesnt work, must be a feature to protect it from scratches! |
| 23:00.47 | michaelnovakjr__ | i think the phone has been excellent so far |
| 23:00.59 | Damm | kinda scary knowing that walmart is selling em |
| 23:01.03 | Sorium | i cant believe XDA Developers is such a big forum, what the hell are these people posting about.... |
| 23:01.15 | DarkriftX | Sorium, its been there for years |
| 23:01.15 | michaelnovakjr__ | what's wrong with walmart selling them? |
| 23:01.23 | DarkriftX | its basically a forum about hacking htc devices |
| 23:01.29 | *** join/#android charleswyble_ (n=charlesw@75.19.47.22) |
| 23:01.38 | Damm | DarkriftX, technically it started hacking the XDA. |
| 23:01.40 | Sorium | yeah, looks like it |
| 23:01.46 | Damm | and kinda went on from there |
| 23:01.50 | DarkriftX | started, but didnt stay there |
| 23:01.54 | Sorium | HTC seems to make the most advanced phones, is that true? |
| 23:02.01 | Damm | they used to have ROMS for virtually every single build of WM5 |
| 23:02.02 | DarkriftX | i would say so |
| 23:02.02 | Sorium | i hadn't heard about HTC till about 6 months ago |
| 23:02.03 | Damm | and more |
| 23:02.15 | Damm | Sorium, 8125? 8525? SDA? MDA? |
| 23:02.24 | Damm | HTC made the Palm Treo 600 and 650 |
| 23:02.26 | DarkriftX | i had the wizard |
| 23:02.30 | BHSPitLappy | Sorium, that's because their phones have names like T-Mobile G1 |
| 23:02.31 | Damm | HTC made your Motorola RAZR |
| 23:02.41 | Disconnect | michaelnovakjr__: lets see, from the top. email (imap) doesn't work. wifi is intermittent at best. browser sometimes keeps your pages, sometimes refreshes (losing state) and sometimes comes up blank. music player interface is junk, even assuming the problems i had are mp3-related and not bugs. and thats all from -today- without looking at my list of bugs. |
| 23:02.42 | BHSPitLappy | they make phones to be rebranded |
| 23:02.59 | Damm | HTC has the ability to fab the whole process |
| 23:03.02 | Sorium | HTC made Motorola RAZR? |
| 23:03.03 | Damm | which is why company's go to them |
| 23:03.05 | Sorium | thats what i use now, i don't have a G1 |
| 23:03.07 | Damm | Sorium, yes. |
| 23:03.17 | BHSPitLappy | my phone, the HTC StarTrek, is sold under the names Cingular 3125, Qtek 8500, iMate Smartflip, and a few others |
| 23:03.22 | Damm | Motorola doesn't do as much fabwork as they used to. |
| 23:03.31 | Sorium | o shit |
| 23:03.42 | Damm | Sony Ericsson outsources their fabwork |
| 23:03.43 | Damm | also |
| 23:03.55 | Sorium | so is Android a waste to develop on? |
| 23:04.00 | Sorium | are you guys coding apps for it right now? |
| 23:04.01 | Damm | that's why Apple bought that one company (i forget their name) for the fab ability |
| 23:04.10 | Sorium | Pixar? |
| 23:04.13 | michaelnovakjr__ | Sorium: i am developing for it |
| 23:04.21 | Sorium | what are you working on right now/ |
| 23:04.22 | romainguy_ | Sorium: no it's not, Disconnect is just a very unhappy person on this channel in general :)) |
| 23:04.31 | morrildl | Sorium: there's a separate channel for app development that we set up since this one has more open-source-related discussion |
| 23:04.38 | morrildl | Sorium: #android-dev |
| 23:04.42 | Adamant | Damm: PA Semi was fabless IIRC |
| 23:04.52 | DarkriftX | Disconnect just hangs out in here with brutesource too much and the negativity rubs off. |
| 23:04.54 | languish | Sorium, there's a very large number of android developers. most of them are not in this channel |
| 23:04.57 | Damm | Adamant, no apple was fabless, PA Semi had the ability to fab. |
| 23:05.03 | Disconnect | romainguy_: i think it -could- be great. but i think the way it is right now if you give it to mom (or gf or wife) they are gonna hate it. |
| 23:05.04 | *** join/#android meoblast001 (n=meoblast@dynamic-acs-24-239-93-241.zoominternet.net) |
| 23:05.06 | *** join/#android DannyB (n=dannyb@c-69-139-151-245.hsd1.md.comcast.net) |
| 23:05.06 | Adamant | they bought them for the design talent |
| 23:05.08 | Damm | Adamant, between apple and PA Semi... it made Apple able to fab their own chips |
| 23:05.09 | Disconnect | oh and lets not forget the camera. |
| 23:05.15 | Disconnect | as much as i'd like to.. |
| 23:05.21 | Damm | apple has always designed their chips |
| 23:05.24 | Damm | but never fabricated them |
| 23:05.28 | romainguy_ | Disconnect: well I gave one to my girlfriend, she really likes it |
| 23:05.30 | *** join/#android crib- (n=chris@port-92-193-26-62.dynamic.qsc.de) |
| 23:05.37 | Disconnect | romainguy_: is it running retail software? |
| 23:05.43 | romainguy_ | yes |
| 23:05.43 | Adamant | Damm: do you mean ability to design chips or having an actual fab? |
| 23:05.44 | morrildl | Disconnect: my wife has one and loves it |
| 23:05.51 | Damm | Adamant, actual fab. |
| 23:05.52 | romainguy_ | (you don't want to be running our mainline :)) |
| 23:06.01 | michaelnovakjr__ | :) |
| 23:06.04 | Damm | Adamant, as you notice the chips in the iphone 3g are majority apple branded. |
| 23:06.11 | Adamant | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/P.A._Semi |
| 23:06.12 | Damm | same with the new ipod |
| 23:06.16 | Adamant | says it was fabless |
| 23:06.42 | Disconnect | and how often do they buy phones at walmart? (or from tmob directly, either in the "popular-phone" genre or in the blackberry line?) |
| 23:06.49 | Damm | there was a time I trusted what wikipedia said. |
| 23:07.06 | *** join/#android pedro_mg (n=pedromg@89.214.103.249) |
| 23:07.07 | Damm | but there is a disconnect with wikipedia, they try to stay neutral to the point where they would rather have disinformation or no information |
| 23:07.27 | Adamant | Damm: ok dude, if you want to believe they have fabs that's good, unless you have insider info I'm sticking with Wiki |
| 23:07.54 | Damm | Adamant, I do, but that's beside the point. |
| 23:08.54 | Adamant | well |
| 23:09.00 | Adamant | their old website on Google |
| 23:09.10 | Adamant | says from their own mouth, they are fabless |
| 23:10.00 | Damm | Adamant, yeah and I can't find any articles saying they are fab... |
| 23:10.13 | Damm | ohwell, i'll gladly bow out and give wikipedia a bone. |
| 23:10.23 | Adamant | cool, we all have thinkos |
| 23:10.49 | Damm | PA Semi was doing some hardcore chips |
| 23:10.56 | Adamant | they were |
| 23:10.57 | Damm | the TI Omap was very popular with HTC |
| 23:11.21 | Damm | I was never a fan of the Samsung ARM |
| 23:11.39 | Damm | the Intel X-Scale was yummy, but power hungry in it's earlier versions |
| 23:11.47 | Damm | hasn't kept up on the ARM chips in awhile |
| 23:12.11 | DarkriftX | im dissapointed, all of the hacking and cracking seems to have stopped on that OTA |
| 23:12.49 | *** part/#android bg (n=kgm@69.60.117.186) |
| 23:13.04 | *** join/#android bdjnk (n=bdjnk@71-212-69-70.tukw.qwest.net) |
| 23:13.13 | morrildl | DarkriftX: ? |
| 23:13.44 | Damm | DarkriftX, I was a bit disappointed in the OTA... better signal, the email app still blows goats, and there really isn't much more there to be considered worthy. |
| 23:14.06 | DarkriftX | there was an effort to try to modify the OTA and reflash it to a device |
| 23:14.08 | Disconnect | is there any good reason to extend SQLiteOpenHelper? |
| 23:14.09 | Damm | i mean my phone has the OBEX Profile according to my Bluetooth profiler on OS X... yet doesn't work. |
| 23:14.14 | jsherman | i'm guessing adb/jdwp won't let you do things that are low level, right? |
| 23:14.15 | DarkriftX | but the signatures stopped that |
| 23:14.18 | DarkriftX | and everyone just gave up |
| 23:14.18 | Damm | the OTA isn't a full image? |
| 23:14.21 | jsherman | like print current registers |
| 23:14.48 | Damm | reject serialno=HT7*|HT80*|HT81* |
| 23:14.49 | Damm | handy |
| 23:14.50 | Damm | lol |
| 23:14.52 | jsherman | or print arguments to a function |
| 23:15.41 | morrildl | Damm: well, it was a security update :) |
| 23:15.58 | Damm | well i'm a HT84... |
| 23:16.06 | Damm | so I imagine those are engineering serial numbers |
| 23:16.19 | Damm | i'm sure DannyB could illuminate on that. |
| 23:16.44 | DarkriftX | the hope was to be able to flash custom images, or change permissions in the current update to give more access to the device |
| 23:17.04 | Damm | oh i'm sure there will be that ability DarkriftX. |
| 23:17.06 | Damm | give it time |
| 23:17.22 | Damm | first you will want a full rom dump |
| 23:17.29 | DarkriftX | if only soemone at google could sneak us the info needed to crack those sha1-digest signatures |
| 23:17.39 | Damm | sha1 is easy to crack |
| 23:17.45 | DarkriftX | well jump on it! |
| 23:17.46 | romainguy_ | DarkriftX: that would be cheating |
| 23:17.50 | Damm | takes what 45minutes on a Pentium 4? |
| 23:17.50 | Disconnect | DarkriftX: that'd be a great way to never work in the embedded industry again.. |
| 23:17.51 | DarkriftX | i know romainguy_ |
| 23:18.02 | Disconnect | possibly even get jailtime depending on how much tmob wants to push damages |
| 23:18.07 | Damm | and 4.5minutes on the core 2's |
| 23:18.09 | romainguy_ | besides, I don't think we have the keys at Google |
| 23:18.12 | jsherman | uh |
| 23:18.13 | romainguy_ | it's T-Mobile's G1 |
| 23:18.15 | romainguy_ | not Google's |
| 23:18.16 | Damm | Disconnect, nah it would be google. |
| 23:18.29 | Damm | because it would burn the whole Android project up |
| 23:18.38 | Damm | and make it non viable |
| 23:18.44 | DarkriftX | romainguy_, they seem to be signed by htc, so im guessing they would be the ones needed to leak them |
| 23:18.45 | Disconnect | Damm: google isn't gonna stand behind an employee that did that. tmob owns the device (and keys) so tmob would be the ones with damages and harm, etc |
| 23:18.46 | jsherman | i'm no lawyer, but I think DMCA explicitly allows reverse engineering for the purpose of unlocking phones |
| 23:19.11 | romainguy_ | jsherman: he's talking about someone from Google leaking private information |
| 23:19.12 | Damm | jsherman, that's still up for debate, it does... but if i recall the last version of the DMCA that passed, removed that clause. |
| 23:19.13 | Sorium | wow |
| 23:19.20 | jsherman | ah |
| 23:19.24 | romainguy_ | that's quite different from doing reverse engineering :) |
| 23:19.26 | Sorium | @jsherman: you have statute in the law on that ?? (that's interesting) |
| 23:19.35 | morrildl | We do not have the signing key, no |
| 23:19.45 | DarkriftX | i was joking guys, i didnt expect the info to be handed to me |
| 23:19.58 | Damm | it's SHA1, it should be no sweat to crack the key. |
| 23:20.05 | Damm | then google will change the key |
| 23:20.13 | DarkriftX | well chime in if you would |
| 23:20.18 | DarkriftX | there are threads on it at xda-devs |
| 23:20.26 | morrildl | Damm: no, because it's not our key :) |
| 23:20.32 | jsherman | maybe you could convince one of the lenstra brothers to do it |
| 23:20.35 | DarkriftX | once the signatures were found everyone stopped everything |
| 23:20.41 | Sorium | can someone telle me what hte point is to cracking the key or unlocking? |
| 23:20.48 | languish | yay! New Bug!!!! |
| 23:20.50 | DarkriftX | easy Sorium |
| 23:20.51 | Sorium | i haven't unlocked any phone i have .... is there some feature im misssing ? |
| 23:20.52 | languish | whooo hoo |
| 23:21.11 | Damm | DarkriftX, unless there's a thread of why they stopped... there's just a pause |
| 23:21.21 | *** join/#android cbeust (n=cbeust@64-142-66-175.dsl.static.sonic.net) |
| 23:21.22 | DarkriftX | we could change permissions on any files in the update, add our own, delete stuff (lots of ppl want to delete all the built in media for some reason) and repack the the update and flash it |
| 23:21.37 | Sorium | ah |
| 23:21.41 | Sorium | flash as on -- put Flash on it? |
| 23:21.44 | DarkriftX | right now, ANY edit to the update causes it to fail in flashing it |
| 23:21.45 | DarkriftX | yes |
| 23:21.45 | languish | my wife just called, then hung up, so I got a missed call notification.. but the phone didn't stop ringing and bussing, even after I check the notification and hit the end key.. it was like the energizer bunny if it were a an alert |
| 23:21.47 | DarkriftX | no |
| 23:21.53 | DarkriftX | flash as in apply the update |
| 23:21.54 | Sorium | guys |
| 23:21.56 | languish | it just kept going and going.. |
| 23:21.58 | Damm | DarkriftX, it's a signed zip |
| 23:21.58 | gambler | hmmm I wonder why here is not a GNU version of distributed.net to crack these vendor lock in keys |
| 23:22.04 | Sorium | what are some things i could do to hack my RAZR ?? |
| 23:22.06 | Damm | just like a signed jar. |
| 23:22.12 | Sorium | and make it super powerful |
| 23:22.20 | Sorium | i dont have internet access on it |
| 23:22.37 | DarkriftX | wrong place to ask Sorium |
| 23:22.38 | Adamant | gambler: because any vendor that isn't stupid uses one distributed.net can't touch in a realistic timeframe |
| 23:22.56 | languish | Sorium, have you ever used the nick BruteSource? |
| 23:22.59 | Adamant | also the SHA1 breaks are for collisons, not invertibility |
| 23:23.11 | DarkriftX | lol, thats not him |
| 23:23.16 | Adamant | SHA1 and even MD5 are still quite strong against inversions currently |
| 23:23.28 | Sorium | no |
| 23:23.32 | Disconnect | if you can collide you might be able to pad out the image tho |
| 23:23.41 | jsherman | ? |
| 23:23.49 | jsherman | how would a collision help you |
| 23:23.49 | Sorium | guys |
| 23:23.51 | gambler | Adamant, touche ... and I dont think inversions are even possible with hash algs |
| 23:23.54 | Sorium | have u seen Howard forums/ |
| 23:24.01 | Adamant | gambler: they are with really bad ones |
| 23:24.04 | ``vip | H |
| 23:24.07 | Adamant | they're the hardest break to do |
| 23:24.18 | Adamant | it's usually much easier to find collisions |
| 23:24.42 | Adamant | which is usually an existance proof the hash is insecure and should be discontinued |
| 23:25.11 | *** join/#android meoblast001 (n=meoblast@dynamic-acs-24-239-93-241.zoominternet.net) |
| 23:25.52 | Disconnect | ok so i've been going through tons of hoops trying not to populate an arraylist of potentially hundreds of entries. but perhaps i should just do the full list for now and by the time i get hundreds of entries (or anyone else does) i'll fix it :) |
| 23:26.11 | DarkriftX | hey, whatever works |
| 23:27.15 | Disconnect | yah :( but i was under the impression sqlite could handle multiple opens .. since it gets mad at me... ohwell. |
| 23:28.18 | Damm | DarkriftX, what more then likely will happen eventually is someone will find a way to duplicate the key and let a 3rd party sign it. |
| 23:28.36 | Damm | Disconnect, sqlite isn't exactly a 'high speed' sql database/server/client/whatever. |
| 23:28.46 | Damm | sqlite3 is /ALOT/ better then sqlite2 |
| 23:29.00 | Damm | i'm a bit disturbed about how apple abuses sqlite |
| 23:29.18 | Disconnect | yah but since it allows for readonly opens (that return rw objects if its unlocked and ro objects if its locked) that screamed "multi-access" to me |
| 23:29.23 | Adamant | if someone is serious about hacking Android, bugs in the Linux layer are probably the best way to do it |
| 23:29.25 | romainguy_ | Damm: yeah, they use it everywhere now :) |
| 23:29.42 | Disconnect | Adamant: yah i'm looking into some things in that arena. |
| 23:30.00 | phyburn | what would be better for updating a clock handler or timertask |
| 23:30.10 | romainguy_ | a handler |
| 23:30.46 | Disconnect | and of course dalvik is new, might be able to find an overflow somewhere with hostile bytecode |
| 23:31.17 | romainguy_ | you'd still be confined in one process |
| 23:31.20 | romainguy_ | there's one vm per app |
| 23:31.34 | Damm | i'll just wait for wiget ability to happen |
| 23:31.45 | Damm | it'll hit by xmas prolly and be a 'present' |
| 23:31.48 | Damm | twitches |
| 23:32.05 | romainguy_ | Damm: if by "xmas" you means "xmas 2009," sure :) |
| 23:32.40 | *** join/#android meoblast001 (n=meoblast@dynamic-acs-24-239-93-241.zoominternet.net) |
| 23:32.46 | jsherman | i guess maybe you could try setting up a SAT instance for the inversion, run it through a survey propagation SAT solver, and see if you get lucky |
| 23:32.53 | Disconnect | widgets would be perfect given how connected its supposed to be |
| 23:32.59 | jsherman | it seems to work for the statistical physicists |
| 23:33.11 | Damm | romainguy_, i said xmas.. didn't say which xmas |
| 23:33.18 | romainguy_ | good :) |
| 23:33.24 | Adamant | jsherman: SAT solvers are already factored in by top crypto people in designs |
| 23:33.32 | romainguy_ | because widgets are much more difficult to implement than it sounds :) |
| 23:33.46 | Damm | the only thing I find painful is reading xda-developers... |
| 23:33.48 | Damm | makes my head hurt |
| 23:33.51 | Adamant | anyway, I think anyone hoping for a Xbox like crypto break is in for a surprise |
| 23:34.05 | waldo_ | anyone have a suggestion why scrollarea.myscrollarea(0,top.getBottom()); is scrolling down to everything but the last appended text? |
| 23:34.07 | Adamant | MS wouldn't make that mistake anymore and didn't on Xbox360 |
| 23:34.17 | waldo_ | sorry that should be |
| 23:34.20 | waldo_ | <PROTECTED> |
| 23:34.20 | jsherman | what was the xbox break? |
| 23:34.36 | romainguy_ | waldo_: probably an ordering issue |
| 23:34.43 | romainguy_ | waldo_: try to post your call to scrollTo |
| 23:34.43 | jsherman | ah ok |
| 23:34.45 | waldo_ | top.getBottom() is the textview inside the scrollview |
| 23:34.53 | romainguy_ | also calling top.getBottom() will scroll too much |
| 23:34.53 | jsherman | I don't know anything about applied crypto, just theory |
| 23:35.03 | Adamant | and I'm pretty sure Google's security team took a look at Android before it got released. Google has several crypto people on staff |
| 23:35.15 | waldo_ | romainguy_: what's the right way to scroll to the bottom of a scrollview with a textview inside it? |
| 23:35.20 | Adamant | so there will be no RC4'ing or TEA'ing |
| 23:35.24 | Adamant | I expect |
| 23:36.13 | waldo_ | I am trying to append text to the inner textview and then scroll down a la a terminal. But it appends and then scrolls down to the line BEFORE the line I just added. |
| 23:36.16 | jsherman | i thought survey propagation was relatively new, much newer than SHA at least |
| 23:36.36 | Adamant | jsherman: it's all algebraic right? |
| 23:36.36 | Disconnect | Adamant: tivo did that for everything before the s3 .. but they forgot one critical piece - so long as the bootloader was in-system flashable it could be broken (even when the sw to flash was missing). their eventual fix was to put more effort into a simpler, more stable validating bootloader that had no reflashing hardware. |
| 23:36.49 | jsherman | ? |
| 23:37.11 | andyross | It's not about the algorithm. You can write a perfectly good crypto protocol with RC4 or XTEA (TEA itself had a bug, but wasn't broken AFAIK). Crypto breaks come from protocol bugs -- secure encryption algorithms are a dime a dozen. |
| 23:37.13 | Adamant | I thought survey propagation was something about one of the new algebraic attacks in vogue |
| 23:37.15 | Disconnect | (and then their chain was stable - firmware validates kernel+initrd, initrd validates main system, main system validates or blanks scratch/cache areas) |
| 23:37.35 | waldo_ | romainguy_: the problem isn't too much scrolling it's not enough |
| 23:37.38 | romainguy_ | wasabi: like I said, post the scrollTo |
| 23:37.54 | Adamant | andyross: I agree but RC4 and TEA are contradictated for new use for a reason. too easy to screw up implementation. |
| 23:38.05 | jsherman | Adamant, it's a SAT solving algorithm |
| 23:38.44 | Adamant | jsherman: I doubt it would break SHA but I could be wrong. whoever could do it could write a pretty awesome crypto paper |
| 23:38.54 | jsherman | er |
| 23:38.55 | romainguy_ | wasabi: look at View.post(Runnable) |
| 23:39.00 | jsherman | not in general |
| 23:39.14 | Adamant | oh, you mean (very) probablistically |
| 23:39.15 | waldo_ | romainguy_: I'll lok |
| 23:39.16 | waldo_ | look |
| 23:39.18 | waldo_ | thx |
| 23:39.27 | jsherman | you only need a single instance |
| 23:39.46 | phyburn | how would you get a handler to run over and over (about every second) a timer? |
| 23:39.47 | romainguy_ | waldo_: basically the problem is that the layout with your next text hasn't happened yet, so the textview has still its current/old size |
| 23:39.51 | jsherman | but yeah it probably won't work, i was half-serious |
| 23:40.02 | romainguy_ | waldo_: by posting you will basically wait for the layout before scrolling |
| 23:40.17 | romainguy_ | philsw__: you send a delayedMessage and when you receive it you post it again |
| 23:40.30 | Adamant | jsherman: gonna read up on it so I talk out of my butt less |
| 23:40.51 | waldo_ | romainguy_: okay let me see how it works.. i'll give it a shot... i thought something like that (timing) might be the issue.. |
| 23:40.56 | waldo_ | let me see how to post one sec. |
| 23:41.02 | romainguy_ | sure |
| 23:41.16 | waldo_ | gotta figure out what a "runnable" is :) |
| 23:41.53 | Disconnect | ok i've confused myself. i've got a listview thats populating successfully. thats great. except i can't find the flipping code thats doing it :) |
| 23:42.17 | Disconnect | outsmarted himself somewhere |
| 23:42.35 | romainguy_ | waldo_: it's just an interface that contains a single run() method |
| 23:42.50 | waldo_ | so do I just say scrollarea.post(null); ? |
| 23:42.52 | romainguy_ | for instance: myView.post(new Runnable() { public void run() { scrollView.scrollTo(...); } }); |
| 23:42.54 | waldo_ | after appending? |
| 23:43.24 | waldo_ | let me try that. |
| 23:43.25 | jsherman | Adamant, good luck, here's the paper: http://www3.interscience.wiley.com/journal/109933746/abstract -- I personally don't quite understand it fully |
| 23:44.32 | *** join/#android aufegu- (n=angu@116.41.93.89) |
| 23:45.17 | waldo_ | wow romain guy.. worked! That's a fair amount of code just to wait for the screen to update, but hey it worked great! Thx. |
| 23:45.39 | Disconnect | oh damnit. there it is. that 'test function' that throws data into the db isn't. oops. :) time to rename it. |
| 23:46.34 | waldo_ | actually I take it back.. not so hard or long.. just had to be told how to do it ;) |
| 23:48.13 | romainguy_ | waldo_: using a Runnable is a very common idiom in Java :) |
| 23:50.10 | waldo_ | sorry I'm just learning java so bear with me ;) |
| 23:50.29 | andyross | Indeed, because the language lacks the notion of an indirected function reference and has to fake it with OOP. :) |
| 23:50.35 | waldo_ | romainguy_: I appreciate the assist |
| 23:51.06 | *** join/#android offby1` (n=user@q-static-138-125.avvanta.com) |
| 23:51.16 | *** join/#android yakischloba (n=jake@c-24-22-171-214.hsd1.wa.comcast.net) |
| 23:51.33 | phyburn | can anyone recomend an android book to help you get used to android? |
| 23:52.21 | waldo_ | phyburn: right now the best thing is to peruse through the online documentation (google "android code") |
| 23:52.26 | waldo_ | at least as far as I know |
| 23:52.34 | waldo_ | there's a book on amazon but it's gotten poor reviews |
| 23:52.43 | yakischloba | ruh roh |
| 23:52.59 | yakischloba | android.process.acore has stopped unexpectedly :/ |
| 23:55.42 | gambler | phyburn, Oreilly has a book on their rough cuts service. I'd advise against buying it. Its very incomplete. |
| 23:55.45 | gambler | Pretty cheeky imo to sell a book that has maybe 1 chapter done. |
| 23:55.56 | phyburn | yeah I just saw that |
| 23:56.03 | yakischloba | when do I get a fuckin OTA update :/ |
| 23:57.36 | gambler | I felt bad for a man who didn't have an OTA update, until I met a man who had no phone. |
| 23:57.44 | michaelnovakjr__ | easy with the f bomb |
| 23:58.04 | romainguy_ | yakischloba: be patient, it will come |
| 23:58.29 | yakischloba | ;) |
| 23:59.16 | languish | yakischloba, my wife got the update thismorning, I'm still waiting for it |
| 23:59.29 | donomo | my GPS tracker was doing fine until an hour ago when all the lat/long reports are 47/-130, a couple thousand miles into the pacific ocean at 10,000 meters up |
| 23:59.41 | donomo | this is on a G1, not in the emulator. |
| 23:59.45 | donomo | any ideas? |
