| 00:10.01 | *** join/#android PoohbaLT (n=Poohba@c-98-235-52-97.hsd1.nj.comcast.net) |
| 00:27.01 | romainguy | unix_infidel: romainguy: it's called the T-Mobile Total Internet Plan on their website. << weird, mine is still at $19.95 |
| 00:28.57 | jasta | romainguy: well, carriers have done that for years. new pricing will come out and they wont force existing customs to update to it until they want to get a new device subsidy |
| 00:30.56 | romainguy | sure |
| 00:31.10 | romainguy | but it seems weird they would up the price to $40 so close from their announcement of G1 plans at lower prices |
| 00:31.23 | jasta | well, it seems underhanded |
| 00:31.25 | jasta | it doesn't seem weird :) |
| 00:34.09 | romainguy | er that's a different plan |
| 00:34.39 | jasta | my first thought was that unix_infidel was looking at an unlimited SMS plan |
| 00:34.50 | jasta | unlimited data + SMS, i mean |
| 00:34.53 | romainguy | the $40 plan is the one with T-Mobile Hotspot usage included |
| 00:34.55 | jasta | since AT&T's pricing is exactly that way |
| 00:35.04 | romainguy | the $19.95 is an add-on to voice plans |
| 00:35.20 | romainguy | and it's the $40 plan is Internet only |
| 00:35.24 | romainguy | so you probably pay premium |
| 00:36.27 | romainguy | so if you get a voice plan, you'll then be able to get a service also called T-Mobile Total Internet |
| 00:36.30 | romainguy | but for only $20 |
| 00:37.01 | jasta | does that include SMS? |
| 00:37.11 | jasta | i should probably research exactly what plan i want :) |
| 00:37.19 | cbeust_ | It doesn't at the moment but it might for the G1 plan |
| 00:37.53 | romainguy | no, the Internet plan doesn't include SMS |
| 00:37.55 | romainguy | but the G1 plan will |
| 00:38.08 | romainguy | the G1 plan will be $25 with 400 SMS |
| 00:38.12 | romainguy | or $35 with unlimited SMS |
| 00:38.33 | jasta | thats pretty good pricing |
| 00:38.41 | jasta | if only the $40/mo voice plan was usable :) |
| 00:39.14 | jasta | my account's gonna be almost dollar for dollar the same on T-Mobile as it was on AT&T hehe |
| 00:39.17 | romainguy | what's wrong with it? |
| 00:39.19 | jasta | thats sorta nice i guess |
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| 00:41.58 | jasta | romainguy: c'mon, 600 minutes w/o the myFaves thing? that's nowhere near enough |
| 00:42.11 | romainguy | I don't know what's included, that's why I'm asking |
| 00:42.13 | jasta | i'll probably go with the $50/mo 600minutes w/ myFaves plan |
| 00:42.15 | cbeust_ | Depends for whom, I took the cheapest voice plan (without even myfaves) |
| 00:42.16 | romainguy | I guess it depends on your cell phone usage |
| 00:42.33 | jasta | romainguy: t-mobile's gimmick is this myFaves thing where you guy unlimited calling to 5 people. but you dont get it this on the $40/mo plan |
| 00:42.33 | cbeust_ | I spend a lot more time communicating online than verbally |
| 00:42.34 | romainguy | with myFaves I basically use no minutes out of my plan |
| 00:42.44 | romainguy | jasta: I know what myFaves is |
| 00:42.45 | jasta | err where you get* |
| 00:42.55 | romainguy | (trust me, I had to do a lot of work to make it work with the Home screen :) |
| 00:43.27 | languish | just get the 1000 minutes with nights and weekends for $39.99 |
| 00:43.30 | languish | :| |
| 00:43.32 | romainguy | is still not used to the US minutes system |
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| 00:44.00 | commonsguy | what? there are metric minutes outside the US? ;-) |
| 00:44.05 | romainguy | no |
| 00:44.07 | languish | if you're using more than 1000 minutes a month on your cell, with unlimted sms/txting, IM/email..etc then you're doing something wrong or you're a sales guy |
| 00:44.15 | romainguy | but in France if you get 400 minutes, it's 400 minutes to spend on outgoing calls |
| 00:44.19 | romainguy | ingoing calls don't count |
| 00:45.00 | jasta | that system is sort of silly though. with that you get people calling land lines and saying "ok, now you call me back." |
| 00:45.12 | romainguy | not really |
| 00:45.15 | jasta | US plans started out like that |
| 00:45.18 | languish | remembers those days |
| 00:45.29 | languish | it was annoying |
| 00:45.34 | romainguy | because if you call from a land line then it's more expensive |
| 00:45.36 | cbeust_ | On the other hand, France doesn't have unlimited land line minuets |
| 00:45.41 | cbeust_ | well, didn't used to |
| 00:45.46 | jasta | romainguy: no, really. it was like that here and it changed because it was lame :) |
| 00:45.58 | romainguy | jasta: maybe it was like that here but it wasn't like that in France |
| 00:45.59 | unix_infidel | it's like that in most of the world. |
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| 00:46.01 | jasta | romainguy: well, our land lines were free to dial cell phones in the same area code |
| 00:46.06 | romainguy | here you go |
| 00:46.10 | romainguy | not in France |
| 00:46.31 | romainguy | at least you can always receive phone calls without worrying about how many minutes you have left ^^ |
| 00:46.31 | jasta | but this was all back when people even had land lines |
| 00:46.43 | *** join/#android Dialekt (n=Carter@cpe-76-169-85-33.socal.res.rr.com) |
| 00:46.49 | Dialekt | hey |
| 00:47.02 | Dialekt | do sms pop up? |
| 00:47.08 | unix_infidel | romainguy: heh, yea or you could say that people dont have cause to interact / initiate conversation because of that paradigm :-P |
| 00:47.08 | Dialekt | like notification style? |
| 00:47.12 | romainguy | Dialekt: you get a notification in the status bar |
| 00:47.22 | Dialekt | like a little envelope crap? |
| 00:47.32 | Dialekt | no pop up like iPhone/ treo?/windows mobile |
| 00:47.33 | romainguy | unix_infidel: ?? |
| 00:47.33 | Dialekt | ? |
| 00:47.44 | romainguy | Dialekt: no popup in the middle of the screen |
| 00:47.49 | Dialekt | boooo |
| 00:47.52 | romainguy | (I'm so glad we didn't do that) |
| 00:47.56 | Dialekt | why? |
| 00:48.01 | unix_infidel | romainguy: only outgoing minutes are used. |
| 00:48.01 | Dialekt | i really like that? |
| 00:48.18 | romainguy | because I find it freaking annoying when I'm doing another task to get a freaking popup in the middle of the screen |
| 00:48.28 | unix_infidel | (like the iPhone) |
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| 00:49.16 | unix_infidel | got to hang out with a bunch of mac guys with iPhones this weekend, I got a pretty good feel for what they were unhappy with. |
| 00:49.38 | unix_infidel | Though, even those that were going to see their att contracts expire, wouldnt get an android phone. |
| 00:49.41 | romainguy | what was driving me nuts on my iPhone was the time it took to switch between two apps |
| 00:51.31 | jasta | hmm, strange. eclipse suddenly doesnt see my project as being part of an svn repo |
| 00:52.13 | jasta | romainguy: who wrote RingsExtended in the apps repo? |
| 00:52.18 | romainguy | Dianne |
| 00:52.37 | jasta | it's referencing a class that doesn't exist in the public SDKL |
| 00:52.38 | jasta | SDK* |
| 00:52.50 | romainguy | yep |
| 00:52.57 | romainguy | I think she has yet to fix this |
| 00:54.04 | languish | Dialekt, g1tube.com check the videos, SEE how the G1 works |
| 00:54.43 | unix_infidel | ahh, so the launch party already happened. |
| 00:54.57 | languish | technically, the launch parties |
| 00:55.01 | languish | :| |
| 00:55.22 | unix_infidel | meh, none in Dallas :-P |
| 00:55.51 | languish | 'eh, bush is on his way out, so too shall tx fall :/ |
| 00:57.32 | languish | tx has received a great deal of unfair business/social economic support compared to other states in a variety of ways since Bush Sr. took office. Clinton didn't stop any of the back end deals and GW ramped it up |
| 00:57.46 | languish | such a shadey administration |
| 00:59.09 | unix_infidel | ahh, so ContactSync finally launched w/ exchange support. |
| 00:59.25 | romainguy | what's ContactSync? |
| 00:59.33 | unix_infidel | http://gizmodo.com/5065685/android-gets-exchange-server-contact-sync-via-third+party-dev |
| 00:59.39 | romainguy | cool |
| 01:00.33 | unix_infidel | it's not a full outlook solution, but it's a step in the right direction. |
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| 01:12.47 | SamSerious | White one won't be available anytime soon :( |
| 01:13.51 | unix_infidel | will be interesting to see the kind of case designs that come out for the G1 |
| 01:15.14 | jt436 | I wonder how popular white will be |
| 01:15.53 | jasta | i cant believe they even made white |
| 01:15.59 | SamSerious | :| |
| 01:19.53 | gambler | other case designs? |
| 01:22.59 | Adamant | languish: I'm not buying it |
| 01:23.44 | Adamant | not any more than AR got special treatment under Clinton |
| 01:24.26 | tweakt | Is there any easy way to get javadocs associated with android.jar in Eclipse? |
| 01:24.59 | tweakt | I'm very used to clicking into classes to view the docs. I imagine source isn't available yet? source would be better ;-) |
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| 01:26.26 | DarkriftX | languish, you around? |
| 01:26.53 | cbeust_ | tweakt: you can associated javadocs to jar files in Eclipse |
| 01:26.57 | cbeust_ | associate* |
| 01:27.30 | tweakt | I know, unfortunately the android tools prevent that |
| 01:27.45 | cbeust_ | How would they do that? It's an Eclipse feature |
| 01:28.14 | tweakt | managed classpath container |
| 01:28.44 | tweakt | I suppose I could remove it and manually add android.jar but I didn't want to resort to that if there's a better way |
| 01:29.15 | cbeust_ | Well, in a few days you'll have the source so it will be moot anyway... |
| 01:29.58 | tweakt | yeah. that's ideal. can't tell you how much having JDK source loaded for reference has helped me over the years |
| 01:30.46 | cbeust_ | No argument there. |
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| 01:39.40 | Dialekt | g1tube requires registration? |
| 01:39.42 | Dialekt | disgusting |
| 01:40.03 | languish | DarkriftX, sup? |
| 01:40.06 | languish | <Adamant> not any more than AR got special treatment under Clinton |
| 01:40.11 | waldo_ | quick question-- is there an alternative IM program besides their one that uses SMS instead of network messaging? I saw someone was developing "Android Messenger" but I dont think that code was ever released. |
| 01:40.16 | languish | ah adamant left |
| 01:40.18 | languish | so n/m |
| 01:41.47 | languish | Dialekt, g1tube does not require registration to view the vids. It looks like they may be working on the site today is all |
| 01:41.58 | Dialekt | i see |
| 01:42.01 | languish | ahh |
| 01:42.13 | languish | wait looks like those changes now include registration |
| 01:42.14 | languish | wtf |
| 01:42.19 | Dialekt | yeah |
| 01:42.27 | languish | wasn't like that up until friday |
| 01:42.37 | Dialekt | languish: are you excited about the G1? |
| 01:42.43 | languish | anyway, you can find all the vids about the g1 on youtube anyway |
| 01:43.13 | DarkriftX | languish, i was gonna ask you your opinion on my new download setup (in forums) |
| 01:43.36 | languish | Dialekt, I guess I've built up a bit of excitement. I'm not super happy with all the hardware design decisions, but android looks like it'll be a fun ride, and I'm very eager to see the g2/3 version that come out. |
| 01:44.16 | languish | Dialekt, for example, an htc touch pro style device with the g1's compass and such built in, with android.. would totally make my day |
| 01:44.42 | Dialekt | I see |
| 01:44.49 | Dialekt | im dying for something different |
| 01:44.49 | languish | so I'm excited about the potential for android overall |
| 01:44.53 | Dialekt | i've used them all. |
| 01:44.55 | Dialekt | like ALL. |
| 01:45.02 | Dialekt | had so many devices this year its stupid.. |
| 01:45.09 | Dialekt | and although new device..same flaws |
| 01:45.14 | languish | well, I've been very disappointed by cellular handsets acros the board |
| 01:45.22 | languish | *across |
| 01:45.24 | Dialekt | so it will be good to see something that I won't feel like i'm "settling" |
| 01:45.30 | languish | exactly |
| 01:45.35 | languish | which the g1 is not |
| 01:45.45 | languish | but eventually, an android device will be, hopefully |
| 01:46.17 | languish | also, I AM very interested in seeing the myriad applications that come about with the more open intent android brings |
| 01:47.53 | Dialekt | well blackberry will finally have an app store which i'm excited about |
| 01:48.05 | Dialekt | out of every device thus far i've always felt that blackberry was the absolute most logical |
| 01:48.17 | Dialekt | if I could have that same logic with a mature native OS i'd be happy |
| 01:48.22 | languish | yes, but i haven't been happy with blackberry form factors |
| 01:48.29 | Dialekt | meaning? |
| 01:48.38 | Dialekt | the same played out design and small screen? |
| 01:48.40 | languish | i liek a larger and touch screen |
| 01:48.45 | Dialekt | ditto |
| 01:48.55 | Dialekt | which I'm pondering waiting for the STORM for |
| 01:49.02 | Dialekt | its such a tough choice for me |
| 01:49.19 | Dialekt | but at the same time.. I know what to expect from blackberry more than likely |
| 01:49.25 | Dialekt | but know nothing of android |
| 01:49.27 | Dialekt | which is exciting |
| 01:49.48 | languish | i'll enjoy the G1 until tmo brings the MDA Vario IV to the US, or another android device catches my eye |
| 01:50.16 | Dialekt | i also have liked the coverage with AT&T |
| 01:50.28 | Dialekt | especially in terms of 3G |
| 01:50.31 | languish | I'mjust concerned the carriers will hate android after a year and start locking shit down |
| 01:50.47 | Dialekt | oh and at&T gets so many handsets fast |
| 01:50.49 | Dialekt | huge network |
| 01:51.21 | languish | I was considering going with att if they had gotten the touch pro first |
| 01:51.28 | languish | I'm sort of glad they didnt |
| 01:51.29 | Dialekt | the FUZE |
| 01:51.42 | languish | but i'll never go with sprint, ever again |
| 01:52.18 | languish | just like I'll never use an averatec product, ever again |
| 01:52.30 | languish | I won't even allow my employees to bring them in to the office |
| 01:52.56 | languish | and i won't subsidise sprint service for consultants |
| 01:53.16 | *** join/#android borism (n=boris@195-50-199-184-dsl.krw.estpak.ee) |
| 01:59.48 | Dialekt | nice |
| 01:59.55 | Dialekt | well these 2 phones are killing me |
| 02:00.00 | Dialekt | lol |
| 02:00.14 | Dialekt | how do you sms with keyboard closed? |
| 02:00.25 | Dialekt | or does it turn into predictive t9? |
| 02:03.28 | languish | you open the keyboard, for now |
| 02:03.49 | languish | it's a 1.0 device. it will improve with time |
| 02:03.55 | languish | at least in software functionality |
| 02:06.15 | languish | DarkriftX |
| 02:06.23 | DarkriftX | sup |
| 02:06.31 | languish | what was it you wanted me to check out again? |
| 02:06.41 | languish | or did you mean after i get the g1 tomorrow |
| 02:07.16 | *** join/#android unix_infidel (n=blue@unaffiliated/unixinfidel/x-8383745) |
| 02:08.52 | DarkriftX | my downloads section in the forum |
| 02:08.55 | *** join/#android feig (n=ejf3@c-76-118-153-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) |
| 02:09.07 | DarkriftX | im getting rid of the old section and doing it all forum based so i can do direct links to the files |
| 02:09.16 | languish | o.O |
| 02:09.20 | DarkriftX | wanted your opinion on how it looks and is laid out |
| 02:09.37 | DarkriftX | i had users tell me download links were not working on device, so im trying to fix that |
| 02:09.45 | DarkriftX | i want it to be as device friendly as i can |
| 02:10.15 | languish | nod |
| 02:10.43 | languish | it doesn't look forum based to me |
| 02:10.50 | languish | just clicked games |
| 02:10.57 | languish | and a download link |
| 02:11.02 | languish | looks same as b4 |
| 02:11.40 | languish | also, you created a mobile version of the site? |
| 02:12.13 | languish | I don't see a link to the mobile version on the main site |
| 02:12.18 | languish | :) |
| 02:12.29 | Dialekt | i dunno how but i think i lost an external |
| 02:12.35 | Dialekt | hard drive |
| 02:12.38 | Dialekt | sucks ass |
| 02:12.59 | languish | :| |
| 02:13.39 | Dialekt | yeah because im always djing |
| 02:13.51 | Dialekt | and i had both externals in my bag on the subways and buses lately |
| 02:13.58 | Dialekt | im whiggin out on where it could be |
| 02:14.00 | Dialekt | searching everywhere |
| 02:14.42 | DarkriftX | languish, the forum downloads are in the forum lol |
| 02:14.48 | languish | :) |
| 02:14.58 | languish | yes, that is a problem isn't it |
| 02:14.58 | DarkriftX | and the mobile version is still in the works, you can add "?template=pda" to see what it looks like |
| 02:15.04 | languish | i know, I did |
| 02:15.08 | languish | I'm just commenting |
| 02:15.20 | DarkriftX | im trying to get mobile. working but its not for some reason |
| 02:15.26 | languish | :( |
| 02:15.36 | DarkriftX | but... if you view the site on a g1, it uses the mobile version automatically (in emulator anyways) |
| 02:15.44 | languish | nod |
| 02:16.23 | languish | it's *possible* some people might not want the mobile version while using the g1. give them a link on the mobile version, to go back to the standard version |
| 02:16.47 | *** join/#android Adamant (n=Adamant@c-98-244-152-196.hsd1.ga.comcast.net) |
| 02:17.01 | languish | nevrmind, you did |
| 02:17.03 | languish | my bad |
| 02:17.59 | DarkriftX | you in new york? |
| 02:18.15 | Dialekt | FOUND IT |
| 02:18.38 | languish | DarkriftX, yes |
| 02:18.48 | languish | pat pat Dialekt |
| 02:20.48 | *** join/#android Adamant (n=Adamant@c-98-244-152-196.hsd1.ga.comcast.net) |
| 02:20.59 | DarkriftX | so does the forum version of the downloads look useable/good enough that i can disable the old version? |
| 02:21.56 | f00f- | how do i get stuff out of the android resources.arsc ? |
| 02:22.19 | jasta | f00f-: you don't. the format is unknown (i tried to reverse engineer it ages ago and failed) |
| 02:22.41 | f00f- | well i remember being able to run a script (maybe from you) |
| 02:22.46 | f00f- | to get XML layouts for system stuff |
| 02:22.50 | jasta | yup, that was from me |
| 02:23.02 | jasta | and the resources format is slightly different: different enough that i couldn't figure it out easily |
| 02:23.23 | languish | DarkriftX, I want to confirm we're on the same page |
| 02:23.42 | languish | DarkriftX you mean, here? http://android-dls.com/forum/index.php?f=17&rb_v=viewforum |
| 02:23.50 | DarkriftX | yes |
| 02:23.57 | jasta | f00f-: the resources format is not a direct mapping to XML like the other one. it has some sort of translation mechanism that it's doing i think. |
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| 02:24.03 | jasta | to deal with units and junk like that |
| 02:24.06 | languish | if so.. umm.. I was never fond of using forums as a scheme for providing downloads |
| 02:24.15 | DarkriftX | me either |
| 02:24.17 | f00f- | oh okay, i suppose it'll be opened up as part of process |
| 02:24.25 | DarkriftX | but my other choice was a blog format |
| 02:24.30 | DarkriftX | which wasnt very appealing either |
| 02:24.40 | languish | You'll figure something out. I preferred what you had before. |
| 02:24.55 | DarkriftX | so did i, but it didnt work on the g1's |
| 02:25.07 | DarkriftX | the downloads were useless unless they downloaded them to thier computer and installed over usb |
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| 02:25.58 | languish | nod. well the back end is what you need to work on, not the interface |
| 02:26.02 | languish | the gui was fine. |
| 02:26.15 | DarkriftX | it was a custom download component |
| 02:26.24 | DarkriftX | not mine |
| 02:26.26 | languish | so maybe, if you add all the downloads to the forum, and link the main page "download" button to the direct forum download link, it could work |
| 02:26.30 | DarkriftX | so editing it didnt work out too well |
| 02:26.55 | languish | but i don't know how well that works with you site manager |
| 02:26.58 | languish | *your |
| 02:27.50 | languish | likely you can get more info from google once the app store goes live |
| 02:28.15 | languish | about what type of service provider they use to feed the apps to the device |
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| 02:39.59 | DarkriftX | languish, im asking the developers of my download module if they can tell me exactly what edits i need to make to give hard links on the download buttons! |
| 02:40.10 | DarkriftX | hopefully they dont mind me editing their script and help me out |
| 02:41.04 | romainguy | waldo_: Gtalk doesn't use SMS, it uses network messaging; I don't know about AIM/MSN/Yahoo! though |
| 02:42.19 | jasta | romainguy: AIM uses network messaging for lots of phones, but for accounting purposes carriers treat it as a "text message" |
| 02:42.27 | jasta | just another scheme to bill arbitrarily |
| 02:42.38 | romainguy | jasta: that's what I meant |
| 02:42.39 | languish | DarkriftX, cool. good luck :) |
| 02:42.52 | romainguy | I know they still use network messaging but that they are sometimes billed as SMS |
| 02:43.00 | romainguy | I didn't really check because I have unlimited SMS anyway |
| 02:44.12 | f00f- | jasta: have you tried getting the XML layouts from the 1.0 SDK? |
| 02:44.35 | romainguy | f00f-: just wait for the source code :) |
| 02:44.50 | jasta | f00f-: they are in the distribution |
| 02:44.58 | f00f- | they're in binary format |
| 02:45.01 | jasta | no, theyre not :) |
| 02:45.15 | jasta | because of the new Eclipse plugin tool to edit the layouts, all the resources are in plain text and part of the distribution |
| 02:45.23 | jasta | been using them for weeks ;) |
| 02:45.36 | jasta | tools/lib/res/default |
| 02:45.47 | f00f- | ooooh |
| 02:45.48 | f00f- | right |
| 02:45.52 | f00f- | okay i was looking at android.jar |
| 02:45.54 | f00f- | thanks |
| 02:47.41 | jasta | that stuff should have been opened from the start. it's an invaluable resource |
| 02:47.45 | f00f- | for soem reason the layout editor no longer works for me |
| 02:47.56 | f00f- | it keeps saying "Eclipse is loading framework information and the layout library from the sdk folder" |
| 02:47.56 | jasta | i have never even opened the layout editor hehe. i assumed it sucked :) |
| 02:48.00 | f00f- | it never refreshes |
| 02:48.31 | *** join/#android Dralspire766 (n=dralspir@81-196.126-70.tampabay.res.rr.com) |
| 02:50.38 | jasta | I/DEBUG ( 21): pid: 1256, tid: 1280 >>> org.devtcg.five.music <<< |
| 02:50.38 | jasta | I/DEBUG ( 21): signal 11 (SIGSEGV), fault addr deadd00d |
| 02:50.40 | jasta | *sigh* |
| 02:51.00 | jasta | E/dalvikvm( 1256): HeapWorker is wedged: 325543ms spent inside Lorg/devtcg/five/music/util/streaming/StreamMediaPlayer;.finalize()V |
| 02:51.05 | jasta | god damn MediaPlayer :) |
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| 03:19.51 | f00f- | how should i handle preferences for my application? |
| 03:20.07 | muthu_ | Context.getPreferences |
| 03:20.12 | f00f- | are PreferenceManager settings stored on a per-Activity basis? |
| 03:20.27 | muthu_ | you give a unique name, and a moe |
| 03:20.29 | muthu_ | mode |
| 03:20.34 | muthu_ | it stores in files |
| 03:21.04 | f00f- | can i access activity A's prefs from activity B? |
| 03:21.53 | f00f- | although perhaps SharedPreferences is just what it implies |
| 03:21.55 | f00f- | to be shared among activities |
| 03:22.03 | muthu_ | right |
| 03:22.12 | muthu_ | yes, preferences are sharable |
| 03:22.30 | muthu_ | its a persistent storage mechanism |
| 03:22.30 | f00f- | okay i shall test it out |
| 03:22.40 | f00f- | yeah i'm already using it in one activity |
| 03:22.42 | muthu_ | lives as a file |
| 03:22.47 | f00f- | and reading the stuff out of it and posting it to static fields |
| 03:22.48 | f00f- | which is veyr lame |
| 03:22.53 | muthu_ | haha |
| 03:22.57 | muthu_ | just use the api |
| 03:23.22 | f00f- | i have a SQLite preference store that i am going to away with |
| 03:24.03 | muthu_ | no need for a db |
| 03:25.10 | muthu_ | how to sign the app? |
| 03:25.13 | muthu_ | now that we are close.. |
| 03:25.40 | f00f- | oh right |
| 03:25.46 | f00f- | need to get a google maps key, too |
| 03:26.17 | muthu_ | need to test it too ;) |
| 03:26.23 | f00f- | :D |
| 03:30.23 | *** join/#android dueynz (n=duey@203.96.223.40) |
| 03:41.35 | muthu_ | romainguy: you use wallpaper, shortcut activities in photostream.. |
| 03:41.42 | muthu_ | is this not handled by the system for all apps? |
| 03:41.56 | muthu_ | looks redundant to me |
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| 03:45.12 | romainguy | muthu_: ? |
| 03:45.29 | romainguy | muthu_: what are you talking about? |
| 03:46.00 | muthu_ | <PROTECTED> |
| 03:46.00 | muthu_ | <PROTECTED> |
| 03:46.00 | muthu_ | <PROTECTED> |
| 03:46.00 | muthu_ | <PROTECTED> |
| 03:46.10 | muthu_ | from your photostream app.. |
| 03:46.16 | romainguy | ok, what's the problem with this? |
| 03:46.35 | muthu_ | can the user not be able to create shortcut like this, for any app? |
| 03:46.49 | muthu_ | i mean, also setting wallpapers |
| 03:46.57 | romainguy | have you red the comment? |
| 03:46.58 | romainguy | read |
| 03:47.10 | romainguy | it's just a way to give an activity two different names |
| 03:47.26 | muthu_ | ok, haven't checked the code |
| 03:47.32 | *** part/#android romainguy (n=gfx@adsl-75-55-215-117.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net) |
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| 04:19.51 | dmoffett | Can the TabWidget be make to have the tabs along the left or right of the screen? |
| 04:20.00 | dmoffett | made |
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| 04:49.00 | cowmix | I'm going to get my G1 tomorrow (hopefully).. anyone know of a good IRC client for it? |
| 04:49.24 | f00f- | get an ssh client |
| 04:49.27 | DarkriftX | i thought soemone mentioned there was one built in |
| 04:49.42 | cowmix | ssh was my 2nd option |
| 04:49.53 | f00f- | have it auto connect on disconnections |
| 04:50.01 | DarkriftX | ssh can connect to irc? |
| 04:50.03 | f00f- | and execute 'screen -r -x' on login ;) |
| 04:50.35 | cowmix | yeah.. there are a few good terminal irc clients |
| 04:51.13 | cowmix | so.. as of yet.. no 'native' clients yet |
| 04:53.01 | gdsx | DarkriftX: there is not one built in |
| 04:53.22 | gdsx | DarkriftX: oh, an ssh client, not an irc client :o) |
| 04:53.31 | DarkriftX | oh, someone made it sound like the default google talk client did irc also |
| 04:53.35 | DarkriftX | or so i missunderstood |
| 04:53.45 | gdsx | DarkriftX: no, it doesn't |
| 04:54.02 | gdsx | DarkriftX: there are XMPP clients that also do IRC, like Adium and Pidgin |
| 04:54.28 | gdsx | (note that XMPP is the technology that google talk is based on) |
| 04:57.40 | languish | I wonder if mibbit works on the G1 |
| 04:57.55 | languish | haven't looked in to how mibbit functions |
| 05:02.10 | Lenolium | Writing an IRC app for Android should take a weekend. I would expect to see one up very quickly. |
| 05:02.34 | WildCaterpillar | cowmix: tommorrow? why not on the 21st? |
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| 05:04.14 | waldo_ | hey cowmix |
| 05:04.16 | waldo_ | you there? |
| 05:04.29 | waldo_ | Just talked to TMobile... 1000 went out to employees |
| 05:04.37 | waldo_ | quote "I love it!" |
| 05:05.45 | languish | I guess that answers that question |
| 05:06.04 | waldo_ | I don't see why mibbit wouldn't work btw |
| 05:06.13 | languish | nod |
| 05:06.21 | waldo_ | I could try it on the emulator now I suppose. |
| 05:06.39 | languish | no need to go out of your way, unless you're curious too |
| 05:06.40 | waldo_ | of course cowmix's ssh to irc is a good idea too |
| 05:06.55 | waldo_ | I'm more hungry than curious... i'll give it a shot when I get back |
| 05:07.02 | waldo_ | that ssh client works pretty well but I wish it supported sshkeys |
| 05:07.20 | languish | I'm seriosuly too lazy to go back to using RAW commands or even irssi :/ |
| 05:07.40 | kylratix | :PRIVMSG |
| 05:07.47 | languish | I'm just fine with my fbsd and linux use, but mirc has me derangedly spoiled |
| 05:07.47 | waldo_ | BitchX? |
| 05:08.02 | languish | no, never liked bitchx |
| 05:08.06 | languish | even when I used it |
| 05:08.15 | languish | irssi if anything |
| 05:08.20 | waldo_ | never used irssi |
| 05:08.36 | waldo_ | then again I haven't used irc much in a while |
| 05:08.42 | languish | nod |
| 05:09.31 | waldo_ | what i want is a good IM client and a good mail client |
| 05:09.43 | waldo_ | I hear the default IM client uses SMS to send messages..(?) |
| 05:09.46 | muthu_ | you got gmail and gtalk |
| 05:10.01 | languish | that's why they have the unlimited sms option |
| 05:10.03 | waldo_ | gtalk? nah.. something with AIM etc |
| 05:10.20 | languish | g1 comes with aim functionality |
| 05:10.28 | waldo_ | but it uses sms |
| 05:10.42 | waldo_ | I'm cheap, I went for $25 because I assumed there'd be a "real" AIM client |
| 05:10.45 | waldo_ | that uses the net |
| 05:10.49 | languish | nod |
| 05:10.52 | languish | i did the same |
| 05:10.55 | languish | lol |
| 05:11.04 | waldo_ | this guy started one http://www.bluesata.com/index.pl?Blog&target=Android%20Test%207%20(Success) |
| 05:11.15 | languish | I can't believe google let the carriers talk them in to using sms |
| 05:11.16 | waldo_ | but I don't think he released the code |
| 05:11.19 | waldo_ | yeah wtf?! |
| 05:11.35 | waldo_ | Some dude got VOIP going in a client too, which is kind of exciting. SIP |
| 05:11.41 | languish | or at least don't give us the option of forcing it to use data |
| 05:11.41 | waldo_ | but hasn't been tested w/o a machine |
| 05:11.47 | languish | actually |
| 05:11.56 | languish | does the client work when connected via wifi? |
| 05:12.11 | languish | with no cell signal |
| 05:12.13 | waldo_ | I'm expecting to use almost none of bundled sw.. I just hope it can be removed |
| 05:12.20 | waldo_ | which client |
| 05:12.28 | waldo_ | the SIP oen? |
| 05:12.30 | waldo_ | I hoep so |
| 05:12.31 | languish | the gtalk/aim..etc IM client |
| 05:12.33 | waldo_ | oh oh |
| 05:12.40 | waldo_ | yeah I would think so, right? |
| 05:12.52 | waldo_ | A net-based one would have to |
| 05:12.55 | languish | If it can, I'm sure there'll be a hack/patch |
| 05:12.57 | gdsx | languish: 01:11:15 < languish> I can't believe google let the carriers talk them in to using sms |
| 05:13.03 | gdsx | languish: what do you mean? |
| 05:13.22 | waldo_ | tmobile convinced Google to use SMS for AIM |
| 05:13.31 | languish | gdsx, the carriers make $ off people using sms instead of Im over data |
| 05:13.32 | waldo_ | so they can charge per-message fees |
| 05:13.50 | gdsx | so, that's only half-true |
| 05:14.00 | waldo_ | ? |
| 05:14.26 | waldo_ | what? |
| 05:14.26 | gdsx | (1) it's not something we have control over, and (2) the transport isn't SMS |
| 05:14.37 | waldo_ | (1) yes it is, and (2) what is it? |
| 05:14.46 | waldo_ | I heard it's text-message based AIM in their client |
| 05:15.00 | ttuttle | waldo_: It's something called IMPS. |
| 05:15.01 | languish | gdsx then debunk it |
| 05:15.02 | waldo_ | instead of using a library like JAIMBOT |
| 05:15.12 | waldo_ | IMPS? |
| 05:15.32 | languish | ttuttle, ok, does IMPS get charged as SMS/Text messaging by the carrier? |
| 05:15.35 | waldo_ | is that the IM over text messaging bridge? |
| 05:15.36 | ttuttle | waldo_: It's a proxy-ish thing that keeps you connected while your phone goes in and out of range. |
| 05:15.40 | ttuttle | languish: dunno |
| 05:15.57 | languish | ttuttle according to tmo reps it does |
| 05:15.59 | waldo_ | Instant Messaging and Presence Service |
| 05:16.09 | gdsx | languish: it does, and that's something the carrier chooses to do or not do |
| 05:16.09 | ttuttle | languish: okay |
| 05:16.24 | gdsx | languish: certainly, feel free to write another client |
| 05:16.35 | languish | I wish. |
| 05:16.41 | waldo_ | people are writing new clients |
| 05:16.43 | ttuttle | languish: Don't worry, someone will. |
| 05:16.46 | languish | I'm working on learning the basics |
| 05:17.05 | languish | ttuttle, i know. but I LIKE what I've seen of the built in client |
| 05:17.06 | waldo_ | see http://www.bluesata.com/index.pl?Blog&target=Android%20Part%201 |
| 05:17.18 | ttuttle | languish: So wait 'til it's open source, and rewrite the protocol bits. |
| 05:17.20 | waldo_ | this is where teh guy starts.. |
| 05:17.21 | cowmix | Wildcaterpillar: UPS sez that mine is in PHX |
| 05:17.22 | languish | I'd prefer to have the option of setting it to use tcp/ip over 3g |
| 05:17.41 | gdsx | ttuttle: IMPS will not be open-sourced because it contains proprietary AIM/yahoo/MSN code |
| 05:17.46 | ttuttle | gdsx: awww |
| 05:17.51 | waldo_ | there is an AIM stack for java called JAIMBOT that he used for this. |
| 05:18.02 | waldo_ | unfortunately libpurple is C. |
| 05:18.15 | waldo_ | or package or whatever it's called in java |
| 05:19.25 | languish | ttuttle, gdsx - so does the default IM client connect via wifi when there's no carrier signal? |
| 05:19.34 | gdsx | waldo_: I probably can't say a whole lot more, but I'd encourage you to not trust everything you hear on the internet |
| 05:19.35 | ttuttle | languish: I assume so. |
| 05:19.40 | WildCaterpillar | cowmix: wow! are tracking numbers up on t-mobile? |
| 05:20.14 | gdsx | languish: When WIFI is brought up, 3G/edge is taken down |
| 05:20.16 | cowmix | yeah |
| 05:20.21 | languish | ah |
| 05:20.30 | languish | well that bogarts that idea |
| 05:21.07 | languish | but it does mean the client can operate over standard tcp/ip without the carrier gateway |
| 05:21.11 | languish | which gives me hope |
| 05:21.25 | WildCaterpillar | wait...sorry, where are you seeing this? i just logged in...not seeing the shipping info |
| 05:21.46 | cowmix | WildCaterpilar: where are you on the site? |
| 05:22.09 | WildCaterpillar | just on the start page |
| 05:22.11 | WildCaterpillar | after loggin in |
| 05:22.20 | languish | I really would prefer not to use a 3rd party client for the IM functions just to get it to sensibly use data over 3g without per message charges (and without having to pay for the unlimited sms) |
| 05:22.58 | cowmix | you have to go to: Support -> Order Status |
| 05:23.20 | languish | data is data is data, and if a message were so important, I'd txt message it which the carrier is welcome to per charge me for |
| 05:23.39 | cowmix | in fact go here: http://www.ups.com/WebTracking/reference?loc=en_US%20&WT.svl=SubNav |
| 05:23.54 | cowmix | and put your phone number at the "Shipping Reference" |
| 05:24.10 | languish | WildCaterpillar, remember when you put your phone number in, use the format xxx-xxx-xxxx |
| 05:24.20 | languish | including the dashes |
| 05:24.42 | WildCaterpillar | oh wow. arrived in Sac on the 17th |
| 05:24.48 | WildCaterpillar | so maybe i get it tomorrow |
| 05:24.49 | gdsx | languish: what do you put if your phone number doesn't have the same digit in every spot? *g* |
| 05:24.59 | languish | :D |
| 05:25.16 | languish | ok smartass ???-???-??? |
| 05:25.18 | languish | :/ |
| 05:25.25 | languish | +? |
| 05:25.31 | cowmix | T-Mobile is going to be SLAMMED tomorrow. |
| 05:25.35 | languish | suddenly feels like the riddler |
| 05:25.50 | languish | cowmix, nah, they've been staggering the deliveries |
| 05:26.12 | languish | some people got theirs last week |
| 05:26.24 | cowmix | languish: if you lurk on AndroidCommunity.. its like EVERYONE is getting their's tomorrow |
| 05:26.31 | cowmix | a HUGE bulk of them |
| 05:26.32 | languish | loll i know |
| 05:26.43 | cowmix | normal.. non-TMobile folk |
| 05:26.58 | languish | yeah, but even then it's many for a forum, not many for a geographically dispersed carrier |
| 05:27.09 | cowmix | i'm in a 3G city.. i hope it works right |
| 05:27.23 | languish | some peopele will still get theirs tues and wed |
| 05:28.08 | languish | regardless I expect problems. tmo always goes through growing pains every time they do something new |
| 05:28.22 | languish | i'll be happy if it's all sorted out by dec. |
| 05:28.43 | languish | I don't want them having issues over the holiday and NYE |
| 05:29.00 | languish | not that what I or any of us wants matters |
| 05:29.16 | cowmix | we'll I gotta git to bed.. if I stay up Santa might not ever get to my house.. :) |
| 05:29.26 | languish | 'night |
| 05:30.17 | WildCaterpillar | hmm...i think i might have to go to the UPS center and pick it up...looks like scheduled delivery is on 21st |
| 05:30.22 | WildCaterpillar | but it has arrived in my city |
| 05:30.42 | ttuttle | Good luck to all waiting to receive their G1s ;-) |
| 05:30.44 | languish | gdsx, I know I'm not alone in the IM/data carrier charge per message confusion. Would you consider writing up a shot full explaination and posting it somewhere blogtastic? |
| 05:30.54 | languish | ttuttle lol :) |
| 05:31.07 | ttuttle | knows what it's like... trust me, it's worth the wait. |
| 05:31.08 | unix_remote | ttuttle: you already get yours? |
| 05:31.17 | gdsx | languish: I can't do that, no. |
| 05:31.18 | languish | also, I know I come across as an ass. thanks for the help |
| 05:31.25 | ttuttle | unix_remote: Google sent me one early, for free, as I was an Android intern over the summer. |
| 05:31.38 | gdsx | languish: if you want to badger someone, badger T-mobile |
| 05:31.41 | unix_remote | ah. so you're due for an update :-P |
| 05:31.57 | languish | gdsx, NDA or job related restriction? if so, do you have a problem with me doing it? |
| 05:32.05 | languish | gdsx, no no, not to badger them |
| 05:32.11 | languish | just to clear up the misconceptions |
| 05:32.28 | languish | "this is how it works" not "hey we're getting charged because" |
| 05:33.06 | languish | more specifically "this is how the default Im app communicates" |
| 05:33.07 | gdsx | languish: a bunch of reasons. Keep in mind that I work on the Android team, and as such, I have access to info that Google, and/or that our partners consider confidential |
| 05:33.11 | languish | *IM |
| 05:33.34 | languish | gdsx, right. if anything you told me is confidential, I won't post it |
| 05:33.37 | languish | hence my asking |
| 05:33.58 | languish | I'm not looking to cause problems so much as clear up the BS |
| 05:34.59 | languish | because I know I'm not alone in the assumption the communication is via SMS, as opposed to IMPS, and that many wonder if when WIFI is brought up, 3G/edge is taken down |
| 05:35.03 | languish | err |
| 05:35.26 | languish | rather, if the IM client will use wifi, when 3g/edge is unavailable |
| 05:36.44 | gdsx | languish: I don't know conclusively how the IM client behaves when cell data is down. |
| 05:36.55 | languish | 'k |
| 05:37.13 | languish | guess I'll find out tomorrow |
| 05:37.31 | gdsx | cool; have fun opening the box and everything :o) |
| 05:37.34 | gdsx | it's a pretty box |
| 05:37.39 | languish | lol i saw :) |
| 05:38.36 | languish | I wonder how charged it comes, since the battery type likes juice but supposedly doesn't have memory issues |
| 05:38.59 | unix_remote | languish: it eats up battery REALLY quick. |
| 05:39.00 | ttuttle | languish: Mine came about 20-30%. |
| 05:39.04 | ttuttle | languish: You'll want to plug it in. |
| 05:39.09 | languish | nod |
| 05:39.22 | languish | yeah, i think it's a minimal charge for shipping purposes |
| 05:39.41 | unix_remote | I hope there's an easy way to turn 3g on and off. |
| 05:39.55 | languish | unix_remote, from waht I saw there is |
| 05:39.58 | languish | *what |
| 05:40.29 | unix_remote | languish: no i mean right from the home screen. an app that changes icon or something. sort of one-click thing. |
| 05:40.38 | languish | it's an available option and there are ways the put options like that on the desktop as icons |
| 05:40.39 | gdsx | unix_remote: you mean 2G-only, or no-cell, or no-data? |
| 05:41.48 | languish | someone explained it in here a day or two agao. I'll have to go back over the log to find the method |
| 05:41.48 | unix_remote | cool. I think that's another one of the major flaws of the iPhone. |
| 05:42.45 | languish | gdsx, edge/2g only, and no-cell options |
| 05:43.09 | languish | i know the 2g only option exists |
| 05:43.43 | gdsx | yeah |
| 05:44.04 | unix_remote | languish: how much did you end up paying for service? |
| 05:44.05 | gdsx | I know there's definitely a way to do no-cell. I forget specifically how, or if you can get to it with anycut |
| 05:44.43 | languish | unix_remote, I have a $39.99 calling plan, and the $25 unlimited data + 400 sms |
| 05:44.55 | languish | well I have that x2, because of my wife |
| 05:45.10 | unix_remote | languish: oh, you're an existing customer? |
| 05:45.16 | languish | we may switch to a family plam, which'll save us $25 |
| 05:45.24 | languish | unix_remote, yes |
| 05:45.41 | unix_remote | how much does your bill usually end up being after taxes? |
| 05:45.41 | languish | I'be had an account since before t-mobile was in the area.. |
| 05:45.55 | languish | I was an omnipoint and a voicestream customer |
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| 05:46.44 | languish | unix_remote, I'd have to go look. My wife saves me the burden of crying over seeing how large our bills are, until she finds a mistake. then she sics me on them |
| 05:47.15 | languish | I'll be happy to tell you tomorrow |
| 05:47.32 | unix_remote | heh, cool. thanks. |
| 05:47.35 | languish | nod |
| 05:47.58 | languish | just ak me again when you see me chatting after 9am eastern |
| 05:48.04 | languish | *ask |
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| 05:48.57 | languish | wait |
| 05:49.03 | languish | actually duh, I can check online |
| 05:49.04 | languish | silly me |
| 05:49.07 | languish | hang on |
| 05:50.40 | languish | we have some additional features, and the total is about $111 for both lines |
| 05:51.07 | languish | that;s without the additional $25 per line we'll have tacked on next month |
| 05:51.26 | unix_remote | ahh, yea the math didnt add up there for a second. |
| 05:52.24 | languish | so it's about $18 in taxes on a about a $92 bill, roughly |
| 05:52.58 | unix_remote | yea i'm estimating about 80 dollars a month just from T-Mobile. |
| 05:53.09 | languish | from there, you can figure out what the taxes will be on the additional $25 :/ |
| 05:54.21 | languish | what really annoys me is this assinine $18 "upgrade fee" |
| 05:55.02 | languish | don't tell me you're giving me free shipping then charging me %18 for ground shipping |
| 05:55.10 | languish | $18 |
| 05:55.49 | unix_remote | Well, I'll be initiating a new contract in-store. So I side-stepped that. |
| 05:55.56 | languish | nod |
| 05:56.04 | languish | yeah, they love new customer |
| 05:56.05 | languish | s |
| 05:58.15 | unix_remote | heh, I havent quite decided whether or not I'll get a G1 or not. |
| 05:58.34 | languish | why go tmo if you're not? |
| 05:59.10 | unix_remote | because I'm betting on one of the other carriers telling me whether or not they'll be ready to release an Android device before December. |
| 05:59.37 | unix_remote | and because T-Mobile coverage is generally REALLY good in Dallas. |
| 06:00.03 | languish | i have 2 reasons I didn't jump ship. 1) they have the best signal by my house. It's the ONLY place they really have the best signal based on where I go often. *sigh* and 2) well, been a customer for a dogs age, and my wife doesn't really watch to switch carriers. |
| 06:00.26 | languish | I was ready to switch to att if they had gotten the touch pro before sprint, but then the G1 came around |
| 06:01.19 | languish | watch/want |
| 06:01.50 | languish | just don't expect tmo to love you much after a year or two |
| 06:01.58 | languish | they'll be polite as heck |
| 06:02.15 | languish | they just don't have a care in hell about customer loyalty. |
| 06:02.38 | unix_remote | languish: yup. Had better luck with att giving me a better deal on a device after spending 4 years with them. |
| 06:02.58 | languish | nod |
| 06:03.45 | unix_remote | http://www.businessweek.com/technology/content/oct2008/tc20081017_238719.htm |
| 06:03.48 | unix_remote | and it begins :-P |
| 06:04.13 | languish | one of my clients was a t-mobile master dealer, and in helping his organization, I did a few months doing customer support. I dealt with tmo as one of their 3rd party reps. |
| 06:04.57 | languish | they hated me, for actually resolving issues for customers to the customers satisfaction, WITHOUT giving away the keys to the car |
| 06:05.26 | languish | what headaches it was getting simple resolutions |
| 06:11.25 | *** join/#android Dralspire680 (n=dralspir@81-196.126-70.tampabay.res.rr.com) |
| 06:12.07 | muthu_ | any news on market? |
| 06:12.36 | languish | nope |
| 06:12.41 | muthu_ | argghh |
| 06:17.55 | languish | it looks like handango is how |
| 06:18.20 | WildCaterpillar | omg |
| 06:18.20 | WildCaterpillar | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K0DmtmmFEVo&feature=bzb302 |
| 06:20.02 | waldo_ | that is fake wc |
| 06:21.07 | waldo_ | the shadows are all wrong for oen thing.. and the bad acting |
| 06:21.20 | languish | agreed but it's amusing even for a fake |
| 06:21.27 | waldo_ | ya |
| 06:21.35 | languish | now this is something.. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sm1IfqVofNA |
| 06:21.41 | languish | (safe for work) |
| 06:21.52 | waldo_ | i like the little nod from teh best man like "oh yeah.. my turn to give you the ring, right? total fake |
| 06:22.41 | languish | (insert "I bet he was givin her more thna just the ring nyuk nyuk joke here) |
| 06:25.21 | waldo_ | well he did make her wet |
| 06:26.55 | languish | clap clap clap clapclap clap clapclapclapclapclapclapclap |
| 06:35.18 | languish | if anyone wants a $15 plantronics bluetooth headset (or 3 for $11.66 each) for your G1, woot.com is selling them now |
| 06:35.26 | languish | loves woot |
| 06:35.58 | languish | note: they're new, but still only have a 90 day warranty |
| 06:37.26 | waldo_ | is that a good headset |
| 06:37.27 | waldo_ | ? |
| 06:37.36 | ttuttle | waldo_: They're all pretty much the same. |
| 06:37.45 | waldo_ | gotcha |
| 06:38.00 | waldo_ | never actually had one |
| 06:38.20 | waldo_ | www.woot.com has 9.99 for plantronics.. hmm |
| 06:38.27 | Kontuus | languish: anyone who lives in us |
| 06:39.00 | waldo_ | so I was thinking of android malware the other day |
| 06:39.19 | waldo_ | and I realized that "spam" may start coming from compromised phones |
| 06:39.22 | waldo_ | and how mcuh that would suck |
| 06:39.31 | ttuttle | waldo_: Yeah, that would suck. |
| 06:39.34 | waldo_ | because it will affect non-android users.. they'll get viagra calls at 3am |
| 06:40.05 | duey | thx for the idea |
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| 06:40.20 | waldo_ | yeah I should patent it |
| 06:41.07 | languish | <Kontuus> languish: anyone who lives in us they ship shirt.woot.com items internationally. I don't know about woot.com's |
| 06:41.11 | duey | "Software that automates the calling of 1900 numbers" |
| 06:41.30 | waldo_ | hehe |
| 06:41.55 | waldo_ | that would be bad too. |
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| 06:42.56 | languish | "Sir, someone in posession of your handset dialed that number which you are now being charged $2,672, and are responsible for." "but..but.. A GHOSt DID IT AAAHHHHHHHHHHH" |
| 06:43.23 | languish | t-mobile getting calls about haunted phones |
| 06:43.26 | languish | omg |
| 06:43.28 | duey | I'm actually suprised it doesn't exist already |
| 06:43.31 | languish | and with halloween coming up |
| 06:43.35 | duey | I guess it is a bit more difficult to get software on mobiles |
| 06:43.36 | languish | i bet they will too |
| 06:43.55 | languish | nah, people are dumb as dirt |
| 06:43.58 | languish | it'll happen |
| 06:44.01 | waldo_ | yeah totally |
| 06:44.08 | waldo_ | this is how it will happen |
| 06:44.49 | languish | peoples G1's are gonna suddenly blast porn music and shouts of "I DOWNLOAD GAY PORN" with accompanying screen images |
| 06:44.57 | duey | lol |
| 06:44.57 | ttuttle | languish: /me starts coding. |
| 06:45.03 | languish | lawl |
| 06:45.14 | waldo_ | regular spam w/ link --> .apk file --> stupid person says yes to giving dialing rights to "nude lindsay lohan pixx viewer" --> dominos pizza stealth wardialing 24/7 |
| 06:45.19 | duey | does android even let you dial a number via code? |
| 06:45.30 | waldo_ | duey yeah if you give it priviliges too |
| 06:45.32 | waldo_ | o |
| 06:45.33 | waldo_ | to |
| 06:45.33 | languish | if it doesn't now, it will |
| 06:45.40 | waldo_ | if to it you give priviliges |
| 06:45.42 | languish | open source baby |
| 06:45.46 | waldo_ | shit I can't spell |
| 06:45.49 | duey | thats somewaht dumb |
| 06:45.52 | languish | well |
| 06:45.59 | duey | apps should be able to populate the number field |
| 06:46.05 | languish | if there's a mispelled prank app, we know who wrote it |
| 06:46.05 | duey | but the user should have to press a button |
| 06:46.18 | waldo_ | duey it can do it all |
| 06:46.42 | umdk1d3 | rooofl stealth dominoes |
| 06:46.45 | languish | duey, it'll hide the button under another keypress |
| 06:46.58 | languish | like save the tactile data |
| 06:47.08 | languish | then use it again later |
| 06:47.21 | languish | :/ |
| 06:47.26 | swetland | the input event routing doesn't exactly work like that ^^ |
| 06:47.51 | languish | swetland, in a whatchamacallit mode.. to test the screen it would |
| 06:47.52 | waldo_ | i think it just sends an intent to the dialer |
| 06:48.01 | waldo_ | and the dialing will come up and it'll go. |
| 06:48.06 | languish | brain soggy |
| 06:48.18 | waldo_ | I haven't looked into how dialing works |
| 06:48.29 | duey | seems like a bit of a security problem to me |
| 06:48.31 | languish | you put your finger to the numbers in the correct order |
| 06:48.33 | duey | having apps auto dialing |
| 06:48.39 | swetland | I didn't think there was a "dial-this-number" with no confirmation intent available to apps |
| 06:48.45 | languish | dude |
| 06:48.48 | languish | oh man |
| 06:48.50 | languish | voice doialing |
| 06:48.51 | duey | swetland, if so then good :) |
| 06:48.57 | languish | joke mp's dialing by voice |
| 06:48.58 | swetland | but I don't work on the framework or apps level stuff ^^ |
| 06:49.01 | languish | *mp3's |
| 06:49.05 | ttuttle | swetland: greetings |
| 06:49.08 | waldo_ | but y'all can read up on it here: http://www.androidjavadoc.com/1.0_r1/index.html |
| 06:49.09 | swetland | 'evening |
| 06:49.29 | waldo_ | swetland really? |
| 06:49.33 | waldo_ | no dialthis#? |
| 06:49.34 | waldo_ | hm |
| 06:50.01 | languish | AH |
| 06:50.06 | languish | diagnostic mode |
| 06:50.10 | languish | there's gotta be one |
| 06:50.10 | waldo_ | looking |
| 06:50.21 | duey | dial a number while the phones in users pocket |
| 06:50.28 | duey | wait for accidently confirmation? |
| 06:50.33 | languish | lol |
| 06:50.36 | umdk1d3 | acutally lol my phone did that tonite |
| 06:50.43 | duey | my phone does it all the time |
| 06:50.46 | umdk1d3 | ended up leaving creepy 4 minute message on someones answering machine |
| 06:50.49 | umdk1d3 | while i was at concert |
| 06:50.58 | umdk1d3 | musta bumped it weird |
| 06:51.04 | waldo_ | lookat at android.telephony and I see how to get dialing info but not how to dial |
| 06:51.21 | languish | dude, create a sex app, that makes the phone vibrate, to arouse a woman.. |
| 06:51.35 | duey | hahaha |
| 06:51.36 | languish | accompanying erotic audio |
| 06:51.49 | duey | creates new app on iphone store |
| 06:51.51 | duey | iVibrate |
| 06:51.56 | languish | and under it.. while it's running and providing tactile feedback, have it autodial |
| 06:52.24 | languish | clitdial 0.69 |
| 06:52.52 | waldo_ | hmm |
| 06:52.54 | waldo_ | <PROTECTED> |
| 06:52.54 | waldo_ | Uri.parse("tel:123123123")); |
| 06:52.54 | waldo_ | <PROTECTED> |
| 06:52.56 | waldo_ | there ya go. |
| 06:53.16 | waldo_ | or maybe it's android.intent.action.DIAL |
| 06:53.34 | ttuttle | CALL is "actually call", DIAL is "enter the number but don't hit send". |
| 06:53.39 | languish | you realize if my phone ever gets infected with one of these ideas, I'm gonna hunt you all down and buy you a beer |
| 06:53.52 | duey | lol |
| 06:53.57 | waldo_ | ah |
| 06:54.03 | waldo_ | ttuttle thanks! |
| 06:54.04 | duey | so it is possible |
| 06:54.07 | ttuttle | waldo_: np |
| 06:54.09 | waldo_ | yup looks that way |
| 06:54.34 | languish | tmp support reps won't see what's coming |
| 06:54.42 | languish | but it's gonna be hilarious |
| 06:54.51 | languish | fucked up as all hell |
| 06:54.55 | languish | but hilarious |
| 06:55.35 | duey | http://code.google.com/android/reference/android/content/Intent.html |
| 06:55.38 | duey | no call intent |
| 06:55.38 | duey | ? |
| 06:55.42 | languish | btw, it'll be really weak cheap beer, because there's a lotta you in here |
| 06:56.03 | duey | nm |
| 06:56.06 | duey | missed it |
| 06:56.22 | waldo_ | duey |
| 06:56.22 | waldo_ | http://code.google.com/android/reference/android/content/Intent.html#ACTION_CALL |
| 06:56.25 | duey | Note: there will be restrictions on which applications can initiate a call; most applications should use the ACTION_DIAL. |
| 06:56.55 | waldo_ | yes I see that |
| 06:57.11 | waldo_ | I wonder if you'll be able to get around it |
| 06:58.33 | duey | make a test app |
| 06:58.34 | languish | as long as voice dial exists, it'll happen |
| 06:58.56 | languish | granted, it likely will only call whoevers in the contact list |
| 06:59.04 | duey | i wonder also an application that modifies the contacts to dial 1900 numbers |
| 06:59.07 | languish | and then play an mp3 |
| 06:59.31 | languish | well there you go |
| 07:00.02 | waldo_ | it would be cool to have like a feature called random_dial -- where you join a group of "russian roulette dialers" who want to talk to random people by area/location/etc |
| 07:00.09 | waldo_ | interest/gender/age all that |
| 07:00.21 | waldo_ | and you spin the wheel and get hooked up with someone in your neighborhood who's signed up for it |
| 07:00.36 | languish | that would likely work |
| 07:00.52 | waldo_ | like flash dating by phone |
| 07:00.53 | muthu_ | waldo_: can't imagine who you would get on line.. lol |
| 07:00.59 | waldo_ | you enter your little profile |
| 07:01.02 | muthu_ | interesting thought though |
| 07:01.16 | waldo_ | say I'm looking for a girl within 5 years of my age... to call me when I'm within 1/2 mile of her |
| 07:01.25 | languish | get some russian prostitution ring to back it |
| 07:01.30 | waldo_ | perfect! |
| 07:02.09 | waldo_ | the most interesting thing in my opinion I've seen is the guy who ported SIP over... |
| 07:02.35 | languish | we ain't seen nothin yet |
| 07:02.38 | languish | ooohhh hay |
| 07:02.42 | languish | we ain't seen nothin yet |
| 07:02.55 | languish | some android promo should use that song |
| 07:03.06 | waldo_ | b-b-baby |
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| 07:13.19 | DarkriftX | lol |
| 07:14.31 | languish | catching up on backlog Dark? |
| 07:14.33 | languish | :() |
| 07:18.43 | DarkriftX | yeah |
| 07:19.40 | *** join/#android anno^da_ (n=anno^da@p5B07F74A.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 07:20.37 | muthu_ | how to enable icons in context menu? |
| 07:23.52 | *** join/#android xorl (n=xorl@uranium.sys-adm.org) |
| 07:26.37 | waldo_ | wow asia ended up way high today on the stock market.. |
| 07:27.18 | muthu_ | asia is confused on mondays |
| 07:27.24 | waldo_ | euroep is slightly up |
| 07:27.26 | waldo_ | europe |
| 07:27.29 | xorl | heh |
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| 08:23.44 | xorl | West the best android community online atm? |
| 08:24.06 | muthu_ | anddev.org |
| 08:24.21 | xorl | ah, looks good. |
| 08:24.25 | xorl | Oh, even a book. |
| 08:24.31 | xorl | Gracias for that link my friend. |
| 08:24.36 | muthu_ | cool |
| 08:24.45 | muthu_ | there's a lot of new communities coming up |
| 08:24.49 | muthu_ | all exciting.. |
| 08:25.02 | muthu_ | helloandroid.com |
| 08:25.08 | muthu_ | is another good one |
| 08:25.27 | muthu_ | if you are looking for market |
| 08:25.39 | muthu_ | slideme.org , andappstore.com |
| 08:27.31 | xorl | awesome |
| 08:27.35 | xorl | hopefully my G1 comes earlty |
| 08:27.37 | xorl | early* |
| 08:27.54 | muthu_ | great |
| 08:29.42 | xorl | yeah i got the environment setup, (i suck) at java but it's not a hard language from what i've seen, I do a lot of perl/python already so it shouldn't be too hard to pick up. |
| 08:29.56 | xorl | Well I should say, I've avoided it intentionally up until now haha. |
| 08:30.12 | muthu_ | yeah, easy to pickup |
| 08:31.44 | xorl | welp night time for me 1:30 am |
| 08:41.05 | *** join/#android iDialekt (n=Mobile@32.157.80.54) |
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| 08:43.32 | iDialekt | Sup |
| 08:44.05 | iDialekt | Wonder if anyone already started developing an irc client? |
| 08:45.26 | languish | we had that convo earlier tonight |
| 08:46.10 | languish | no conclusive result, but then, we dunno what's in the app store yet, and those who do, aren't saying |
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| 08:55.10 | iDialekt | True |
| 08:55.20 | iDialekt | I love that you're active |
| 08:56.05 | iDialekt | But we will see a lot more once the device is in peoples hands |
| 09:01.40 | languish | wut |
| 09:02.36 | muthu_ | when the nda ends? |
| 09:03.49 | languish | if i knew, i couldn't tell you |
| 09:03.51 | languish | :/ |
| 09:04.05 | muthu_ | ha sucks |
| 09:04.08 | languish | lol |
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| 10:04.17 | Kontuus | are the applications for android free? |
| 10:04.33 | anno^da_ | Well not all apps are free |
| 10:04.48 | anno^da_ | At the moment all the apps offered in the android market are free |
| 10:04.57 | anno^da_ | but in the future they dont have to be free Kontuus |
| 10:05.24 | anno^da_ | (free like free beer) |
| 10:10.02 | languish | Kontuus, basically right now they don't have a way to charge for them, so you get them without paying. Some will be fully functional, some might be crippled, so you upgrade later for full functionality |
| 10:10.06 | languish | (and pay) |
| 10:10.14 | yang | does a calendar (task manager) for android exists? |
| 10:10.24 | languish | yes |
| 10:10.33 | *** join/#android rwhitby (n=rwhitby@nslu2-linux/rwhitby) |
| 10:10.34 | anno^da_ | Well the Google Calender exists |
| 10:10.42 | languish | it integrates with google calender and there's also a 3rd party app |
| 10:10.46 | languish | and will be more |
| 10:11.13 | anno^da_ | How good is the 3rd party app ? |
| 10:11.20 | languish | I haven't used it. |
| 10:11.26 | anno^da_ | ok |
| 10:11.31 | yang | actually |
| 10:11.43 | yang | Android also runs on motorola A780 i have seen the demo ! |
| 10:11.57 | languish | yang, yes, but that's not "oficiialy" |
| 10:11.59 | languish | err |
| 10:12.01 | yang | yep |
| 10:12.03 | languish | officially |
| 10:12.12 | languish | it runs on a number of hardware devices |
| 10:12.16 | languish | it's linux |
| 10:12.22 | yang | I just think the motorola EZX doesnt have calling support yet |
| 10:13.03 | languish | it'll also need carrier support for full functionality |
| 10:13.27 | languish | like with t-mobile, if you don't have a particular account type enabled for your account, you cannot get 3g data |
| 10:14.12 | anno^da_ | Well outside of the us you can use it with non t-mobile sim cards including 3G |
| 10:14.31 | yang | Our country doesn't have T-mobile |
| 10:14.46 | languish | duly noted |
| 10:15.06 | languish | point being, you'll need carrier support, whatever carrier it is :) |
| 10:15.22 | anno^da_ | thats true |
| 10:15.44 | yang | but it can all be coded that way to "unlock" the phone from T-mobile to another provider |
| 10:16.15 | yang | as i have seen the frequencies span in 800/900/1800/1900 range |
| 10:16.47 | languish | well, you may just be able to compile it for your device after the the source code is released |
| 10:17.09 | languish | rather than having to unlock a device from tmo |
| 10:22.54 | yang | ok |
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| 10:29.36 | Dialekt | FAIL |
| 10:35.37 | languish | ? |
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| 10:58.12 | Dialekt | lol |
| 10:58.14 | Dialekt | iPhone |
| 10:58.28 | Dialekt | i dont even know if i want the G1 anymore ..its such a chore |
| 10:58.31 | Dialekt | lol |
| 11:44.59 | tomgibara | Has anyone seen the home application render 'oddly' during changes in orientation? |
| 11:50.15 | tomgibara | taken just after a switch to landscape mode: http://www.tomgibara.com/tmp/home-bad.png |
| 11:51.58 | tomgibara | It stays in that state for a little less than second before my application re-appears. |
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| 12:04.25 | Dougie187 | http://www.engadget.com/2008/10/20/motorolas-android-slider-getting-social-in-q2-2009/ |
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| 12:12.48 | MrSnowflake | tomgibara: never seen it |
| 12:13.13 | MrSnowflake | Does the 'take screenshot' button of the ddms perspective also work on devices? |
| 12:22.45 | tomgibara | MrSnowflake: Good question, I don't know, but I'd guess yes |
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| 12:39.01 | living_sword | how often does MediaScanner scan the memory ? |
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| 13:14.23 | living_sword | for VideoView, is there a difference speed-wise between setVideoPath() and setVideoUri() ? |
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| 14:07.53 | amja1 | ok androild.locationmanager does not have getCurrentlocation in sdk1.0, it used to be there in previous versions |
| 14:08.27 | commonsguy | correct |
| 14:08.32 | MrSnowflake | getLastKnownLocation(String provider) |
| 14:08.42 | MrSnowflake | that's the one you are looking for now |
| 14:09.07 | amja1 | ok |
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| 14:23.16 | Disconnect | my phone sat in louisville for 3 days and finally started moving late last night :( but maybe it'll get into MD in time for me to just pick it up tonight :) |
| 14:23.45 | Disconnect | (and i still hate the layout methods but thats more an issue with wrapping my head around it better than anything else I suspect.) |
| 14:29.15 | umdk1d3 | i wouldnt be suprised if tmobile worked closely with ups to meet a target delivery date |
| 14:29.40 | umdk1d3 | instead of letting a good number of them be delivered early |
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| 14:33.26 | unix_lappy | umdk1d3: not surprising, all of them were sent at different shipping levels. |
| 14:33.43 | unix_lappy | regardless of what was selected at checkout. |
| 14:34.38 | umdk1d3 | did they charge more for certain shipping rates? |
| 14:38.45 | Disconnect | not afaik, or at least i don't think i had an option |
| 14:39.02 | Disconnect | since it was a preorder |
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| 14:42.41 | zhobbs | has anyone gotten their G1 pre-order yet? |
| 14:43.41 | kslater | doh! I wish |
| 14:43.48 | michaelnovakjr_ | i'm waiting for motorola's |
| 14:43.50 | kslater | it's about 40 minutes away from me |
| 14:43.59 | kslater | sitting in a UPS distribution center |
| 14:44.05 | umdk1d3 | raid! |
| 14:44.06 | umdk1d3 | :P |
| 14:44.22 | Disconnect | kslater: you might be able to convince them to let you pick it up there, if they have any sort of customer-facing counter there. just gotta call before it goes on a truck. |
| 14:44.26 | Disconnect | or just wait for tomorrow :) |
| 14:44.40 | unix_lappy | well, at least I got my answer. Most carriers wont deliver for atleast another 6 months. |
| 14:44.55 | michaelnovakjr_ | its worth the wait |
| 14:44.56 | zhobbs | kslater: yeah, I've picked stuff up at the local UPS warehouse |
| 14:44.59 | michaelnovakjr_ | i don't like HTC phones |
| 14:45.02 | wastrel | hello |
| 14:45.06 | wastrel | i'm at work |
| 14:45.19 | unix_lappy | michaelnovakjr_: what would you prefer? |
| 14:45.30 | michaelnovakjr_ | i am curious to see the motorola a |
| 14:45.34 | michaelnovakjr_ | android phone |
| 14:45.54 | michaelnovakjr_ | not that i am giving up on my iPhone :) |
| 14:46.50 | unix_lappy | been hearing quite a lot of that actually. people are quite content with their iPhone. |
| 14:46.58 | michaelnovakjr_ | oh yea |
| 14:47.01 | michaelnovakjr_ | its amazing |
| 14:47.18 | wastrel | i don't have an iphone |
| 14:47.26 | kslater | I want to write what I want to write for my phone. It's not about polish for me. |
| 14:47.27 | michaelnovakjr_ | i don't like HTC's proprietary connector |
| 14:47.41 | michaelnovakjr_ | its lame and annoying |
| 14:47.45 | wastrel | it's a USB port |
| 14:47.46 | ttuttle | michaelnovakjr_: Neither do I. I bent (didn't break yet) the USB connector on my earphones :-( |
| 14:47.46 | kslater | yeah, that I don't like either, although it's just mini usb |
| 14:48.01 | michaelnovakjr_ | wastrel, except you need a connector |
| 14:48.06 | unix_lappy | Surprisingly, I hear a lot of that too. Though most people I talk to dont actually use their iPhone for music unless they are in their car. |
| 14:48.08 | wastrel | you're talking for earphones |
| 14:48.19 | michaelnovakjr_ | i use my iPhone on the subway |
| 14:48.26 | michaelnovakjr_ | wastrel, :) yea it sucks |
| 14:48.29 | kslater | would rather it had either: 1) mini stereo jack or 2) bluetooth stereo profiel |
| 14:48.34 | wastrel | i don't listen to music so meh. |
| 14:48.55 | michaelnovakjr_ | i can listen to music and answer calls on my iPhone with the same headphones |
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| 14:49.02 | Dougie187 | michaelnovakj_: trying to sell the iPhone in here? |
| 14:49.08 | Dougie187 | are you an apple rep now too? |
| 14:49.09 | Dougie187 | lol |
| 14:49.13 | michaelnovakjr_ | haha |
| 14:49.14 | zer0her0 | hehe |
| 14:49.22 | michaelnovakjr_ | its a great device |
| 14:49.31 | Dougie187 | depends who you are. |
| 14:49.36 | Dougie187 | some people don't care for it |
| 14:49.38 | VickiWong | whats an iPhone? : \ |
| 14:49.39 | Dougie187 | <---- like me |
| 14:49.55 | Dougie187 | but thats good you like it |
| 14:49.57 | michaelnovakjr_ | if you used one for a week, you wouldn't give it back |
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| 14:50.05 | Dougie187 | i hate the keyboard |
| 14:50.27 | Dougie187 | i haven't used much more than the keyboard actually... but i absolutely hate the keyboard |
| 14:51.07 | Disconnect | michaelnovakjr_: i used one for a month, sold it at cost just to get rid of it. some things were great (multitouch) some were ok (browsing was on par with my e90) and some things sucked (camera, lack of kb/onscreen kb, etc) |
| 14:51.28 | VickiWong | w00t finally found out the name of the singer i was looking for, gotta love google |
| 14:51.33 | VickiWong | wrong channel... |
| 14:51.34 | VickiWong | lol |
| 14:52.36 | MrSnowflake | why does bindService return false, while the service is getting connected? |
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| 14:53.58 | muthu | MrSnowflake: its async |
| 14:55.04 | plusminus_ | are the romours on a today market-news reasonable? |
| 14:55.30 | Dougie187 | ? |
| 14:55.34 | Dougie187 | what do you mean? |
| 14:56.03 | muthu | if its not announced today.. then its too late |
| 14:58.28 | plusminus_ | Dougie187: Announcing the website, where we can put our apps to, so they can be loaded from within the market. |
| 14:58.46 | Dougie187 | where are the rumors? |
| 14:59.10 | muthu | plusminus_: is starting it right now ;) |
| 14:59.14 | muthu | lol |
| 15:00.26 | plusminus_ | ? |
| 15:00.33 | MrSnowflake | where? |
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| 15:00.52 | commonsguy | that's ok, muthu, i got the joke |
| 15:01.01 | plusminus_ | xD |
| 15:01.05 | Dougie187 | plusminus_: you asked if the rumors were reasonable, so what rumors are you referring to? |
| 15:01.10 | tomgibara | I'd love to see more information about how to upload apps to the market place etc. but I don't see why today (or tomorrow) forms any sort of deadline |
| 15:01.26 | Dougie187 | tomgibara: i guess thats what im getting at. |
| 15:01.38 | plusminus_ | because maybe users would like to see some apps in the market :) |
| 15:01.44 | plusminus_ | ... from the first day on |
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| 15:01.53 | Dougie187 | plusminus_: but where are you getting the rumors from? |
| 15:02.00 | Dougie187 | plusminus_: or is it something you are just making up? |
| 15:02.05 | plusminus_ | read it somewhen in here.. dunno |
| 15:02.12 | tomgibara | Well, the reviews I've read say that there are more than 30 apps available already |
| 15:02.40 | plusminus_ | tomgibara: yes but is 30 a lot or damn few ? |
| 15:03.05 | plusminus_ | do you expect to find everything you want within 30 apps ? |
| 15:03.08 | Dougie187 | I would think thats quite a few for a new system. |
| 15:03.09 | plusminus_ | not me |
| 15:03.13 | zer0her0 | all about how good they are and what gaps they fill i think |
| 15:03.20 | tomgibara | No, but does it matter? A user could entertain themselves until the market place becomes fully active. |
| 15:03.20 | Dougie187 | plusminus_: do you expect to find everything you want within a month of getting a phone? |
| 15:03.29 | tric | dougie: android isnt new. its almost a year since first launch |
| 15:03.41 | jasta | plusminus_: they are trying to play quality control, i think. only official apps they have used and tested are going to be in at launch. |
| 15:03.44 | plusminus_ | Dougie187: at least a lot more than within these 30 |
| 15:03.56 | commonsguy | remember, there were nearly 1800 entrants to ADC |
| 15:04.02 | commonsguy | 30 seems...paltry |
| 15:04.02 | jasta | plusminus_: but thats just my guess. seems reasonable |
| 15:04.10 | Dougie187 | commonsguy: think about how many of those were worth using. |
| 15:04.19 | Dougie187 | commonsguy: and had teams that continued to develop after they lost. |
| 15:04.23 | Dougie187 | 30 doesn't seem too bad anymre |
| 15:04.25 | Dougie187 | anymore* |
| 15:04.27 | tomgibara | More apps at launch will not increase customer satisfaction |
| 15:04.29 | plusminus_ | jasta: yes, but its poor. I feel betrayed once again |
| 15:04.31 | tomgibara | better apps will |
| 15:04.49 | jasta | plusminus_: lol, well, i guess i would too if my app was ready |
| 15:04.50 | muthu | the market needs to be open |
| 15:04.56 | muthu | no point in discussing quality here |
| 15:04.59 | plusminus_ | :-D |
| 15:05.01 | tomgibara | I know that's frustrating for people who are sitting on better apps |
| 15:05.17 | commonsguy | tomgibara: problem is, it's easier to measure quantity than quality, so the media will leap on the "only 30 apps" issue |
| 15:05.27 | tomgibara | but google staff probably don't want to be playing gatekeeper |
| 15:05.50 | jasta | plusminus_: if you really want to get angry, Google offered devices to ADC winners and the opportunity to work with their Market team to get their apps launched early/on-time. So, if you didn't win the ADC, Google thinks you suck :) |
| 15:05.56 | tomgibara | commonsguy: true, but at the same time, you don't want thousands of people telling the press : All the apps are crap |
| 15:05.58 | michaelnovakjr_ | 30 apps? that's it? |
| 15:06.23 | muthu | 30 would be a joke |
| 15:06.31 | commonsguy | tomgibara: true, but i think there's a happier medium between 30 nice apps and 1800 pieces o' crap |
| 15:06.43 | michaelnovakjr_ | i doubt there will be anything productive either |
| 15:06.50 | tomgibara | commonsguy: Only if some one chooses the apps |
| 15:06.51 | Dougie187 | commonsguy: do you want 30 nice apps and 20 pieces of crap? |
| 15:06.58 | tomgibara | If google did that there would be a huge complaint |
| 15:07.02 | michaelnovakjr_ | i wasn't impressed by much of what was in the ADC |
| 15:07.12 | Dougie187 | michaelnovakj_: who was? |
| 15:07.14 | jasta | commonsguy: well, there isn't, actually. if you opened it up, everyone would submit, and there would be hardly any review process to weed out bad ones or give first-time customers a way to pick just the quality apps |
| 15:07.34 | commonsguy | but all you're doing is delaying matters by, what, days? |
| 15:07.37 | jasta | what they really should have is a cooker repo so you can configure your market app to have access to crappy/unstable/new apps and review them |
| 15:07.38 | muthu | jasta: there can always be featured sections |
| 15:07.39 | tomgibara | God, I've managed to start a rumour that there are 30 apps: I distinctly remember at least one reviewer making about that estimate, that's all. IT IS NOT A FACT that there are 30 launch apps. |
| 15:07.46 | jasta | then they can go out of cooker and into the main repo after some time |
| 15:07.55 | jasta | (imagine that, just like Debian, RedHat, etc *grin*) |
| 15:08.06 | Dougie187 | tomgibara: heh, rumors spread like wildfire. |
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| 15:08.35 | muthu | if the market doesn't open, it would be less than 30 |
| 15:08.38 | Dougie187 | There are probably at least 50 or so, if the ADC winners got help getting in. |
| 15:08.42 | jasta | tomgibara: actually, ttuttle -- google's weakest link -- was in here the other day telling us there were "lots", so many in fact that installing them all took forever. |
| 15:08.48 | Dougie187 | muthu: why do you say this? |
| 15:09.23 | Dougie187 | I don't think it is a big issue if the market doesn't come out until wednesday personally. |
| 15:09.24 | plusminus_ | Rumour: Android Market was just a joke. It will be never open !!! |
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| 15:09.32 | tomgibara | jasta: I can well believe that |
| 15:09.45 | jasta | muthu: if the market is "open", featured sections would be based on user feedback, not google's opinion. so, that wouldnt really work :) |
| 15:09.55 | michaelnovakjr_ | :) |
| 15:10.07 | Dougie187 | lol it'd be like youtube where you get 10 soft core porn videos. |
| 15:10.39 | jasta | yeah, i'm actually of the opinion that the market should probably wait until Wed, to guard against bad initial reviews. but hey, i also think they should split the repo so that new apps can be tested by less lame people first |
| 15:10.58 | commonsguy | jasta: that is an interesting model |
| 15:11.03 | zhobbs | why should you be able to post an app to the market if you don't even know if it works on a real device? |
| 15:11.12 | plusminus_ | anyone knows if there will be a new sdk before wednesday? There are still some bugs that might be useful not to have them... Like not being able to load some Jpegs ... WTF ?!?!? |
| 15:11.16 | Dougie187 | jasta: but you are going to have muthu reviewing all the apps... |
| 15:11.19 | muthu | zhobbs: why should you care? |
| 15:11.21 | jasta | commonsguy: it's just common sense. everybody that has packages pushed down to "regular users" does it this way. |
| 15:11.23 | tomgibara | commonsguy: It's pretty standard for incubating OS libraries. |
| 15:11.43 | zhobbs | muthu: wait, why should you care if your application runs on a real device? isn't that the whole point of having an application? |
| 15:11.45 | commonsguy | no kidding -- which is why I said it's interesting |
| 15:11.46 | Dougie187 | muthu: if you don't who is going to use your app? |
| 15:11.49 | plusminus_ | muthu: you should zhobbs: thats another point :) we should have devices before... |
| 15:11.58 | muthu | that's the point |
| 15:11.58 | jasta | Dougie187: i don't even necessarily mean that reviews will make or break the app, but just offering devs a chance to do "limited" releases to people who think of themselves as more adventurous computing users. |
| 15:12.06 | mib_e03ums4x | ok, I just arrived. is it me, or are there a few new apps in the market and most of the original ones *missing*? |
| 15:12.17 | jasta | so they can get feedback and refine before they target the greater community |
| 15:12.26 | tomgibara | commonsguy: But it requires an authority to 'move' the apps into the mainstream, that's why it won't work here |
| 15:12.40 | jasta | again, this is very much like how Linux distros work. Debian has experimental, unstable, and stable for this very reason. |
| 15:12.46 | Dougie187 | jasta: true. im just saying, it might be a bit better to wait for that until the dev community grows a bit. |
| 15:12.56 | commonsguy | tomgibara: maybe they move up based on ratings? |
| 15:13.10 | muthu | google should say, market is not open yet |
| 15:13.15 | muthu | and its open only to a few |
| 15:13.21 | Dougie187 | muthu: can't you just assume that? |
| 15:13.23 | mib_e03ums4x | I am seeing the "lifestyle" section, for example, only having 3 apps. |
| 15:13.24 | tomgibara | commonsguy: ratings from a pool of hardened testers who won't be scared when their phone locks up? |
| 15:13.35 | Dougie187 | muthu: why does it need to be said. I mean you can't use the market yet, so you know its not open. |
| 15:13.50 | muthu | Dougie187: they had said, it would be open to all developers around launch |
| 15:13.51 | commonsguy | tomgibara: more directly, ratings by whoever plays in "test" or "sandbox" or whatever the pre-Market is |
| 15:14.02 | jasta | tomgibara: you don't actually need an authority to do this. you can rely on the developer's intuition to do it. force them to launch to the cooker repo first for a minimum of a week or something, then let them choose to push it to the main repo |
| 15:14.15 | jasta | so if they push it too early and there are no reviews, it will just sit at the bottom and no one will find it |
| 15:14.18 | jasta | :) |
| 15:14.23 | Dougie187 | muthu: so, around launch is when it will be open. you will know when it is open. and you even know that it will be open before launch. you just know around launch. |
| 15:15.00 | Dougie187 | you don't even know before launch. |
| 15:15.02 | Dougie187 | sorry thats what i meant. |
| 15:15.13 | tomgibara | jasta: I like the idea, it's a model I'm comfortable with, I'm just trying to see how it would work in practice (whether there are any flaws). |
| 15:15.54 | jasta | tomgibara: well, every design has flaws. this one is better than just letting devs push immediately to a main repository with no ability to test on a limited release first |
| 15:16.03 | jasta | and also, you're pushing into the main repo with *no* reviews, and that makes it harder to get an uptake. |
| 15:16.14 | *** part/#android commonsguy (n=chatzill@70.44.71.92.res-cmts.sm.ptd.net) |
| 15:16.23 | jasta | pushing into a smaller repo of unstable/testing software will help you get exposure and some traction when you push into the main one too |
| 15:16.44 | jasta | because any good market app is based on user feedback. if google fucks that up i will kill him |
| 15:16.47 | jasta | kill them* :P |
| 15:16.51 | jasta | no, i'll just kill sergey |
| 15:17.10 | ttuttle | jasta: That's a bad idea. |
| 15:17.16 | Dougie187 | lol |
| 15:17.21 | michaelnovakjr_ | user feedback? |
| 15:17.23 | Dougie187 | killing sergey or his market idea? |
| 15:17.30 | ttuttle | Dougie187: killing sergey is a bad idea. |
| 15:17.35 | Dougie187 | oh ok. |
| 15:17.57 | ttuttle | Dougie187: (the repo thing sounds interesting. an "experimental" or "beta" tag for the regular market might be nice.) |
| 15:18.19 | jasta | ttuttle: yes, and the default configuration of the market would be to exclude such apps |
| 15:18.20 | Dougie187 | jasta: you should work for google. |
| 15:18.29 | jasta | whereas geekier folks could open up their market app to it |
| 15:18.29 | michaelnovakjr_ | well we all know google throws beta in front of everything |
| 15:18.31 | jasta | and see whats out there |
| 15:18.44 | jasta | Dougie187: you're right, then i could get even closer to Sergey *grin* |
| 15:18.50 | Dougie187 | lol |
| 15:18.59 | michaelnovakjr_ | definitely should mention that in your interview |
| 15:20.02 | benley | "So, why are you applying for a job at google?" |
| 15:20.22 | benley | <jasta> "because I have a crush on Sergey, obviously!" |
| 15:20.27 | jasta | of course, none of this matters if the market is based on user feedback and not google's opinion. |
| 15:20.52 | jasta | if you recall, that was my condition which allowed Sergey to live :) |
| 15:20.58 | Dougie187 | lol |
| 15:21.26 | benley | the market app is full of user reviews and ratings. What's the question about it? |
| 15:21.52 | jasta | benley: it wasn't a question really. we were just talking and i mentioned a model that assumed user reviews. |
| 15:21.55 | benley | the market you see when you run the emulator is not the 'real thing' exactly |
| 15:22.01 | jasta | because, it is obvious. if you dont have user reviews then you suck |
| 15:22.11 | jasta | benley: we dont see any market, btw. |
| 15:22.16 | benley | oh, lol |
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| 15:22.38 | benley | perhaps I shouldn't discuss it :-P |
| 15:22.47 | jasta | but while i have you, does google have a mechanism to arbitrarily spotlight certain apps that they like (independant of the community's opinion)? |
| 15:22.51 | Dougie187 | looks like benley is an nda clown. |
| 15:22.55 | MrSnowflake | :) |
| 15:23.03 | jasta | independent* |
| 15:23.17 | MrSnowflake | I believe we should get a new emu, because a lot of apps like the market aren't on it |
| 15:24.03 | jasta | benley: because that would be _bad_. nobody wants google abusing its partner relationships to force feed users apps when free/better alternatives can be found. |
| 15:24.06 | benley | jasta: there's 'featured' apps when I launch the market, no idea who decides that |
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| 15:24.28 | jasta | in fact, the very idea is infuriating and counters all claims of openness |
| 15:24.41 | michaelnovakjr_ | fork |
| 15:24.57 | jasta | its just constant reassurance that if you try to topple one of their (or their partners') apps, you will be stopped. |
| 15:25.24 | benley | doesn't know enough to give a useful answer |
| 15:25.26 | jasta | hey, exactly like Apple's terms! |
| 15:25.32 | michaelnovakjr_ | unless you fork and offer a better device!! |
| 15:25.57 | yakischloba | do it up |
| 15:26.40 | Dougie187 | jasta: isn't that what the kill switch is for? |
| 15:26.59 | jasta | Dougie187: well, we don't know what the kill switch is for because we dont know the terms |
| 15:27.23 | Dougie187 | true |
| 15:27.34 | jasta | seriously, if google pulls an apple, ...... |
| 15:27.45 | jasta | yup, i'll just have to do it. i will kill sergey |
| 15:27.46 | muthu | the carriers will force them to |
| 15:27.49 | michaelnovakjr_ | jasta, its obvious they will |
| 15:28.05 | michaelnovakjr_ | android might not live up to expectation |
| 15:28.21 | jasta | the thing that strikes me as miserably stupid for them to copy Apple's poor decisions is that... |
| 15:28.32 | tomgibara | I'm glad they fitted a kill switch, I think it's a sensible policy. We will see in time the terms they allow themselves to use it under. |
| 15:28.35 | jasta | they dont have as good a product as apple. so they need to set themselves apart by better legalese |
| 15:28.40 | MrSnowflake | Here are the term: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AZDSVZUWpgo |
| 15:28.48 | michaelnovakjr_ | jasta, couldn't agree more |
| 15:29.04 | jasta | tomgibara: it's a sensible feature, but it all depends on how sensible their terms are. Apple's are not sensible. Will Google copy them? |
| 15:29.20 | Dougie187 | why can't they just type them? |
| 15:29.40 | tomgibara | jasta: I'm in agreement - I'm just not worrying until I see something to worry about in the terms |
| 15:29.42 | michaelnovakjr_ | good one |
| 15:29.42 | MrSnowflake | Yeah, they are reading them, why not copy them. Copyright on the terms maybe :p |
| 15:29.51 | jasta | yikes, i gotta get ready for work |
| 15:29.56 | MrSnowflake | hehe |
| 15:30.06 | tomgibara | The problem is that lawyers always like to enlarge the scope of clauses when it's in their client's favour. |
| 15:32.00 | michaelnovakjr_ | wtf |
| 15:32.10 | michaelnovakjr_ | you can't install 3rd party apps on a micro card? |
| 15:32.14 | michaelnovakjr_ | what good is that? |
| 15:32.27 | umdk1d3 | michaelnovakjr_: kinda makes sense tho |
| 15:32.33 | michaelnovakjr_ | why |
| 15:32.34 | umdk1d3 | if you swap cards, you lose apps? |
| 15:32.38 | umdk1d3 | or they appear to break |
| 15:32.56 | michaelnovakjr_ | 128mb onboard though? |
| 15:32.56 | MrSnowflake | Yeah, but on internal memory you can install only so much apps. |
| 15:33.08 | MrSnowflake | I have a lot of apps on my sd with my wimo device |
| 15:33.10 | umdk1d3 | i thought it was 192? idk /me looks somewhere |
| 15:33.18 | michaelnovakjr_ | tell me why this is still an issue |
| 15:33.24 | unix_lappy | makes a very good case case for getting a 16GB card. |
| 15:33.31 | michaelnovakjr_ | apple has a hard drive in the iPhone..... why has no one else done this yet? |
| 15:33.35 | plusminus_ | muthu: just saw a video-review of your cookign capsules :) http://de.youtube.com/watch?v=W7KoU9OudPg N1 !!! |
| 15:33.38 | umdk1d3 | im seeing 256 internal, 192mb ram |
| 15:33.39 | MrSnowflake | because on my wimo device I have not enough internal memory to install apps to |
| 15:33.54 | umdk1d3 | @ here http://www.htc.com/www/product/g1/specification.html |
| 15:34.04 | *** join/#android Terdhex (n=ENRIQUE@host-208-68-238-61.biznesshosting.net) |
| 15:34.14 | MrSnowflake | still 256 is not THAT much. |
| 15:34.15 | umdk1d3 | they say rom, but its prolly flash if they do OTA updates |
| 15:34.16 | tomgibara | You need to be memory/storage sensitive when designing your apps. |
| 15:34.25 | muthu | plusminus_: how's it? |
| 15:34.25 | jasta | waves his arms wildly |
| 15:34.27 | jasta | no you dont :) |
| 15:34.40 | umdk1d3 | lol @ flailing jasta |
| 15:34.51 | tomgibara | jasta: Get to work! |
| 15:34.55 | MrSnowflake | :) |
| 15:34.56 | jasta | yes yes |
| 15:35.02 | blount | as I understand it, apps are in part protected by permissions bits on the filesystem... which you don't get on fat |
| 15:35.13 | umdk1d3 | blount: excellent point |
| 15:35.18 | jasta | i feel so ashamed i took wed off work. ill be so excited by android that i cant perform my daily function :) |
| 15:35.23 | wastrel | heh |
| 15:35.38 | umdk1d3 | jasta: what excuse did you use? |
| 15:35.42 | wastrel | i was out sick last week for 3 days so don't feel i can take wed. off |
| 15:35.46 | jasta | umdk1d3: i kinda told them the truth |
| 15:35.46 | muthu | jasta: really? what the hell are you going to do the whole day ;) |
| 15:35.48 | wastrel | otherwise i'd have done so as well |
| 15:35.58 | jasta | muthu: uhm, program most likely. |
| 15:36.07 | tomgibara | jasta: What exactly were you waving your arms at? |
| 15:36.21 | jasta | tomgibara: i designed my app to abuse the hell out of storage :) |
| 15:36.22 | plusminus_ | muthu: I like the video-thing ! |
| 15:36.25 | Disconnect | blount: you can overlay permissions with bind mounts, userspace filesystems, etc. there's plenty of ways to run apps off fat. |
| 15:36.27 | jasta | tomgibara: thats part of its feature set :) |
| 15:36.32 | tomgibara | SD card storage yes |
| 15:36.36 | muthu | plusminus_: glad you liked |
| 15:36.41 | plusminus_ | I think I have another must-have app :) |
| 15:37.02 | blount | ya, but you also want to be able to mount the filesystem directly off a pc |
| 15:37.10 | plusminus_ | video should load a lot faster than the review-guy said, when you are at home with wifi. |
| 15:37.18 | *** join/#android ttuttle (n=tom@pdpc/supporter/student/gentoo.contributor.ttuttle) |
| 15:37.26 | tomgibara | I'm talking about the fact that (afaict) your apk get stored, plus your app uses memory, plus it may need to store additional sensitive data that can't go on the SDCard |
| 15:37.31 | plusminus_ | muthu: btw, is it free ? |
| 15:37.43 | plusminus_ | like ad-supported maybe? |
| 15:37.58 | muthu | plusminus_: no idea, i'm not really active after p2 |
| 15:38.04 | tomgibara | You need to consider all of these aspects in your design so that you don't squander the user's phone memory |
| 15:39.00 | michaelnovakjr_ | except how many actually did? |
| 15:39.42 | tomgibara | I have |
| 15:39.45 | jasta | not me man. Five really abuses ;) |
| 15:39.51 | tomgibara | in all my apps |
| 15:39.59 | unix_lappy | waits to find out whether the capacitive screen has multiple electrodes or only one under the hood... |
| 15:40.42 | tomgibara | It's simple really, the user will be forced to choose: Do I have this one app, or four apps which are four times smaller? |
| 15:40.43 | wastrel | what does it mean? |
| 15:41.05 | tomgibara | They will install larger apps, as long as they are good enough, or important enough. |
| 15:41.18 | michaelnovakjr_ | some games would have to be large |
| 15:41.25 | tomgibara | jasta: I'd say a good music player will fall into that category |
| 15:41.26 | michaelnovakjr_ | i still can't believe they can't use a damn hard drive |
| 15:41.36 | wastrel | hard drive is bad |
| 15:41.42 | tomgibara | I'm assuming its for speed of launching |
| 15:41.44 | unix_lappy | uhhh. |
| 15:41.47 | michaelnovakjr_ | an sdcard is better? |
| 15:41.55 | MrSnowflake | ssd is better |
| 15:42.05 | cbeust_ | Can't have moving parts |
| 15:42.10 | plusminus_ | much faster access-times |
| 15:42.20 | tomgibara | doesn't know much about the performance of phone hardware |
| 15:42.39 | plusminus_ | cbeust_: much less chance of destroying the storage when dropping your phone |
| 15:42.40 | cbeust_ | It's not just that, it's also for reliability |
| 15:42.41 | wastrel | battery |
| 15:42.46 | Terdhex | <PROTECTED> |
| 15:42.51 | wastrel | fail |
| 15:42.57 | tomgibara | lol |
| 15:42.58 | plusminus_ | ^^ |
| 15:42.59 | cbeust_ | Ok that was stupid, Terd |
| 15:43.05 | cbeust_ | Nobody can read that on irc |
| 15:43.15 | wastrel | we could if he did it right |
| 15:43.40 | plusminus_ | some irc-clients are intelligent enough to replace '\n' with multiple-sends |
| 15:43.45 | Terdhex | Lol.. you could but my irc client sucks... |
| 15:43.46 | plusminus_ | ... some not |
| 15:43.57 | cbeust_ | Not for people who use proportional fonts, i.e. most clients |
| 15:44.02 | *** join/#android bricode (n=bricode@200.122.185.24) |
| 15:44.10 | muthu | lets see some ascii art :) |
| 15:44.24 | *** part/#android Dougie187 (n=doug@wg-d232125.dsl.fsu.edu) |
| 15:44.31 | muthu | anyone got ascii android ? |
| 15:44.47 | MrSnowflake | muthu: was think the same... |
| 15:45.02 | michaelnovakjr_ | jeeze |
| 15:45.14 | wastrel | good clients use fixed-width fonts :] |
| 15:45.27 | cbeust_ | and waste horizontal space? no thanks |
| 15:46.39 | michaelnovakjr_ | do we ever talk about android development in here? |
| 15:46.51 | zer0her0 | what's android? |
| 15:46.52 | zer0her0 | ;) |
| 15:47.00 | michaelnovakjr_ | not surprised you don't know |
| 15:47.07 | MrSnowflake | lol |
| 15:47.09 | michaelnovakjr_ | its only rumors in here |
| 15:47.11 | VickiWong | michaelnovakjr_: im not much into robatics, nothanks |
| 15:47.16 | zer0her0 | haha |
| 15:47.21 | VickiWong | robotics* |
| 15:49.40 | *** join/#android oinkboink (n=dingdong@p5B126AEC.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 15:49.47 | oinkboink | hi |
| 15:50.10 | *** join/#android schmylan (n=schmylan@38.114.107.11) |
| 15:52.24 | oinkboink | when the emulator is startet out of eclipse, i always have to restart the emulator when im changing my program? |
| 15:52.44 | MrSnowflake | nope |
| 15:52.57 | MrSnowflake | just run it again |
| 15:53.12 | oinkboink | from the emulator? |
| 15:53.23 | MrSnowflake | eclipse |
| 15:54.02 | unix_lappy | when unit testing is there a way to automate user input? |
| 15:54.42 | tric | unix_lappy: you are prolly looking for acceptence tasting? android topic instrumentations |
| 15:54.50 | oinkboink | MrSnowflake: oh, thats easy ;) thanks |
| 15:55.49 | *** join/#android dragonball_ (n=dragonba@unaffiliated/dragonball) |
| 15:57.50 | unix_lappy | tric: looking at the description it's just a class to handle monitoring? |
| 15:59.01 | MrSnowflake | unix_lappy: isn't that what the monkey is for? |
| 15:59.30 | MrSnowflake | http://code.google.com/android/reference/monkey.html |
| 16:00.14 | tric | mrsnowfalke: well thats kinda brute force and no automated testing like unit tests |
| 16:00.23 | MrSnowflake | ok |
| 16:02.28 | tomgibara | Does FrameLayout support margins on multiple children? |
| 16:03.49 | tric | unix_lappy: maybe http://devtcg.blogspot.com/2008/08/android-instrumentation-example.html helps |
| 16:05.53 | jasta | grins |
| 16:06.31 | tric | jasta: one of the first hits on a google search ;) |
| 16:07.03 | *** join/#android laeg (n=laeg@unaffiliated/laeg) |
| 16:07.16 | jasta | ironically, i stopped using instrumentation because of serious bugs with it |
| 16:07.37 | jasta | i have one case isolated (and a bug filed, which was ignored) which can reliably segfault my instrumentation process, thus aborting all my tests |
| 16:07.54 | jasta | also, the MediaPlayer can't run in an instrumented context it seems |
| 16:07.58 | jasta | so i cant test that stuff either |
| 16:08.25 | *** join/#android muthu_ (n=mobeegal@59.92.74.54) |
| 16:09.46 | jasta | tric: you've reminded me to update my blog :) |
| 16:09.54 | jasta | i need to post about my StreamMediaPlayer class and StatefulListView as well |
| 16:10.15 | jasta | the latter of which is a staple throughout Five :) |
| 16:15.20 | zhobbs | jasta: what's the StreamMediaPlayer class? |
| 16:16.50 | *** join/#android pandora-- (n=pandora-@66.238.50.126.ptr.us.xo.net) |
| 16:20.50 | zhobbs | http://www.engadget.com/2008/10/20/retail-t-mobile-g1s-showing-up-in-loving-customers-hands/ |
| 16:22.01 | oinkboink | where i can read something about playing own audiosamples on android? |
| 16:22.19 | oinkboink | for a sequenzer application |
| 16:24.37 | *** join/#android andyross (n=andy@static-71-245-107-194.ptldor.fios.verizon.net) |
| 16:27.03 | muthu_ | in manifest, we specify android:versionCode="1" |
| 16:27.16 | muthu_ | how to get hold of this in code? |
| 16:27.27 | zhobbs | muthu_: I was wondering that also |
| 16:28.21 | *** join/#android mazzen (n=mortel@vpn-ce242135.extern.uni-duisburg-essen.de) |
| 16:28.26 | muthu_ | yeah, looks like its not accessible |
| 16:29.06 | umdk1d3 | ooh! rom dump http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=437703 |
| 16:29.51 | michaelnovakjr_ | jasta, someone's looking for klondike |
| 16:33.19 | umdk1d3 | holy crap |
| 16:33.29 | umdk1d3 | android could have XSS attacks |
| 16:33.42 | umdk1d3 | i just realized im parsing stuff coming in through intent extras |
| 16:33.48 | umdk1d3 | gets paranoid |
| 16:34.26 | *** join/#android romainguy_ (n=gfx@nat/google/x-fc0f0e6b249f07d3) |
| 16:34.30 | *** topic/#android by SanMehat -> Two. |
| 16:34.59 | umdk1d3 | SanMehat: well for some lucky people its zero :P |
| 16:35.03 | umdk1d3 | ups isnt perfect |
| 16:35.08 | SanMehat | ;) |
| 16:39.15 | zhobbs | moto's phone will have a slide out keyboard too: http://www.businessweek.com/technology/content/oct2008/tc20081017_238719.htm |
| 16:39.23 | michaelnovakjr_ | lame |
| 16:42.47 | jasta | yawn |
| 16:43.12 | jasta | umdk1d3: ??? |
| 16:43.17 | michaelnovakjr_ | the noob at the xda link was looking for a klondike game jasta |
| 16:43.40 | *** join/#android borism (n=boris@195-50-199-184-dsl.krw.estpak.ee) |
| 16:43.56 | jasta | zhobbs: it's an encapsulated class which works out numerous MediaPlayer bugs and also exposes a new method setDataSource(RandomAccessStream) for arbitrarily feeding the MediaPlayer |
| 16:44.12 | zhobbs | neat |
| 16:44.14 | jasta | zhobbs: it neatly encapsulates my LocalHttpServer to do this. |
| 16:44.21 | tethridge | when are they going to announce the iphone style android phone. I don't care about moto's g1 clone. :-) |
| 16:44.34 | zhobbs | jasta: how well does the local http server solution work? |
| 16:44.36 | tethridge | I want the sleek touch screen hardware |
| 16:44.44 | jasta | zhobbs: well, i would say terribly because i'm a purist |
| 16:44.51 | jasta | but practically, it performs just fine :) |
| 16:45.08 | zhobbs | from the user's perspective it's fine then I guess? |
| 16:45.23 | jasta | the real issue with the work-around that i have to use is that you get a lot of I/O. the mediaplayer itself has a read-ahead cache when streaming, and i am writing/reading on the sd card |
| 16:45.35 | jasta | so it's a ton of I/O to choke on. devices, as it turns out, handle this pretty efficiently however. |
| 16:45.42 | jasta | yeah, the user won't notice |
| 16:45.58 | jasta | except that switching tracks is a little slower than you might expect |
| 16:46.06 | jasta | (when they arent in the cache, that is) |
| 16:46.27 | jasta | michaelnovakjr_: hehe, great. but mine isn't really usable yet :) |
| 16:47.10 | jasta | zhobbs: http://code.google.com/p/five/source/browse/#svn/trunk/five-music/src/org/devtcg/five/music/util/streaming -- that's all the gist of how Five does its magic. |
| 16:47.28 | jasta | http://code.google.com/p/five/source/browse/trunk/five-music/src/org/devtcg/five/music/activity/StreamMediaPlayerTest.java -- and here is my demo of this class working. |
| 16:47.51 | *** join/#android matt_c (n=mcroydon@gozur.sunflowerbroadband.com) |
| 16:48.05 | zhobbs | nice |
| 16:48.29 | jasta | it's pretty miserably inefficient by design, but i'm pleased with how tidy the API is at lesat. |
| 16:48.47 | jasta | my hope was taht if someday magically the MediaPlayer stopped sucking so much i could just fit my StreamMediaPlayer to it nicely |
| 16:53.10 | jasta | zhobbs: do note that my usage ignores the buffer listener, because it is useless |
| 16:55.07 | dims | jasta, not using gzip? |
| 16:55.18 | jasta | uhm, for media files? |
| 16:57.46 | *** part/#android an_dev (n=PAYAL@host-208-68-238-61.biznesshosting.net) |
| 16:59.42 | dims | jasta, that was a quick observation...save the files as gzip and then serve using Content-Encoding: gzip (saves disk space) |
| 17:00.11 | andyross | You sure about that? :) |
| 17:00.40 | dims | andyross, like i said, haven't thought it thru :) i barely glanced at the code and something popped into my head |
| 17:01.00 | andyross | Media formats are already compressed. They don't shrink when you gzip them. |
| 17:01.48 | dims | got it! |
| 17:02.06 | tethridge | jasta, can five stream across the internet? Do I have to be on my home network? |
| 17:02.49 | Cedric2 | Jasta, if Five the final name? |
| 17:03.29 | tethridge | jasta, why "five"? |
| 17:03.43 | tethridge | I meant to ask you that a while back |
| 17:05.45 | tethridge | jasta must have stepped out for a late lunch |
| 17:05.53 | michaelnovakjr_ | ? |
| 17:05.58 | michaelnovakjr_ | its only morning there :) |
| 17:06.09 | MrSnowflake | evening here |
| 17:06.20 | muthu_ | night here |
| 17:07.56 | VickiWong | 1am here |
| 17:10.12 | MrSnowflake | 1am is 1300 right? |
| 17:10.23 | stadlero | no |
| 17:10.31 | MrSnowflake | 0100 |
| 17:10.31 | muthu_ | 1300 is 1pm |
| 17:10.38 | MrSnowflake | ok |
| 17:10.49 | MrSnowflake | I always mix them up. We don't use them |
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| 17:12.38 | jasta | sorry, i was afk |
| 17:13.00 | *** join/#android Dougie187 (n=doug@wg-d232125.dsl.fsu.edu) |
| 17:13.11 | jasta | tethridge: uhm, five exclusively streams across the internet... |
| 17:13.24 | jasta | that would be totally stupid if you had to be physically near all your music to get it ;) |
| 17:13.48 | jasta | Cedric2: you don't like it? :) |
| 17:14.05 | tethridge | I agree, but I got that impression when I read the brief info you had on the google code site. |
| 17:14.15 | tethridge | well, maybe not stupid, but of little use. :-) |
| 17:14.45 | tethridge | jasta, so why did you pick "five"? |
| 17:15.02 | jasta | i named it Five after the 80s classic film Short Circuit |
| 17:15.20 | jasta | there's a scene in one of the movies in the series where Johnny Five is listening to music and trying to dance around... |
| 17:15.31 | tethridge | good movie |
| 17:16.21 | jasta | well, it's _a_ movie. :) |
| 17:16.32 | tethridge | I was a kid when I watched it, so I loved it |
| 17:16.33 | jasta | my gf had made me watch the original one days before i had heard about Android |
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| 17:16.56 | tethridge | my five year old son loves it too. he's a big robot fan |
| 17:17.07 | tethridge | wanted to be "Asimo" for Halloween |
| 17:17.23 | *** join/#android mazzen (n=mortel@vpn-ce242135.extern.uni-duisburg-essen.de) |
| 17:17.36 | tethridge | I had my wife talk him out of that. Building that costume gave me nightmares |
| 17:18.04 | jasta | dims: also, you should realize that good compression is very expensive, so much so that it would instantly become a bottleneck of your design on a mobile device. |
| 17:18.26 | dims | gotcha! |
| 17:18.28 | jasta | dims: generalized compression algorithms like gzip or pkzip will actually impose more overhead than just letting the radio download uncompressed data. |
| 17:19.05 | jasta | this is why designs that involved, for example, compressed XML are laughably inefficient. i'd be surprised if you could even make that work at all on a mobile phone :) |
| 17:19.05 | tethridge | jasta what is the largest collection of music you have tested with? |
| 17:19.24 | jasta | tethridge: my personal 75GB collection. |
| 17:19.38 | tethridge | how did it handle it? I have 125GB |
| 17:19.42 | jasta | just fine |
| 17:19.44 | jasta | thats its job |
| 17:19.52 | Dougie187 | it does work really well |
| 17:20.01 | *** join/#android cybereagle (n=cybereag@unaffiliated/cybereagle) |
| 17:20.04 | jasta | it takes ages and ages to do the initial sync right now because of a number of silly reasons i shall fix shortly |
| 17:20.06 | tethridge | well, I've yet to find a player for linux that doesn't choke a bit on that much music |
| 17:20.13 | jasta | but other than that, it won't care how big your collection is |
| 17:20.22 | tethridge | amarok does ok with mysql as a backend. |
| 17:20.59 | jasta | tethridge: 125GB is not that big. for instance, the most likely query you've got going on is to lookup artists and albums by id. |
| 17:21.37 | tethridge | the problem for me is searching |
| 17:21.40 | jasta | so how many artists/albums do you suppose are unique in that collection? |
| 17:21.54 | tethridge | on most desktop clients, they try to do real time searching like itunes, but they don't use threading |
| 17:22.02 | tethridge | so it blocks after a few characters are typed |
| 17:22.08 | jasta | ahh, well, Five is just gonna search by running a narrowed query |
| 17:22.17 | jasta | and because ListView is so tidy, this will be quite efficient. |
| 17:22.31 | jasta | a binary search of several thousand records is not too slow for even a phone. |
| 17:22.41 | Dougie187 | have you uploaded any new changed jasta? |
| 17:22.53 | jasta | Dougie187: lots. playlist support is in, tons of UI changes (added menu buttons on a lot of screens) |
| 17:23.02 | Dougie187 | nice. |
| 17:23.05 | Dougie187 | i may have to check it out |
| 17:23.52 | jasta | tethridge: but as i said, right now the initial sync process is terribly slow. i have a couple of plans to fix this, but i just odnt have the energy for it right now. |
| 17:24.11 | jasta | one of the biggest problems with sync that i've identified recently, however, is the pathetic ContentProvider abstraction. it simply cannot be used during sync. |
| 17:24.20 | tethridge | well, it sounds like I'll definitely be using it as soon as I get an android phone |
| 17:24.23 | jasta | so i need to figure out another way to get direct access to my sqlite3 db to build it during sync |
| 17:25.04 | tethridge | I had planned to use my web front end to stream my music to my phone via jinzora |
| 17:25.19 | jasta | five will certainly do a lot better than that |
| 17:25.35 | jasta | tethridge: five copies all your music meta data to a local database. it only has to access the network to stream. |
| 17:25.56 | jasta | so in this way, the UI is very responsive. you're never waiting on network traffic. |
| 17:26.00 | tethridge | how large is your metadata for 75GB of music? |
| 17:26.23 | jasta | the sqlite3 db is about 2MB (which contains only text), the cached album artowkr is...erm, about 150MB |
| 17:26.26 | jasta | on the sdcard |
| 17:26.52 | jasta | i havent loaded up the full collection in a little while, admittedly. i use a 6GB collection for testing |
| 17:26.59 | *** join/#android wastrel (n=wastrel@nylug/member/wastrel) |
| 17:27.06 | unix_lappy | jasta: wouldnt it be easier to just setup a local webserver on the box with the collection to grab artwork? |
| 17:27.27 | jasta | unix_lappy: five is a webserver, and it does serve artwork. |
| 17:27.37 | unix_lappy | ahhh. now it makes sense. |
| 17:28.04 | unix_lappy | i thought it was a simple iTunes remove. |
| 17:28.06 | unix_lappy | remote* |
| 17:28.10 | jasta | five is broken into two parts, one is a server you run on your home PC. it does all the heavy lifting for the database and serving content. you then install the android client and connect it over the internet. |
| 17:28.37 | jasta | the android client syncs with the server periodically to get updates to content (only updates are sent). but this is only for meta data. |
| 17:28.47 | jasta | when you want to play audio, it streams and cached to the phones sdcard |
| 17:28.51 | Dougie187 | i haven't tested this, but how difficult is it for a home user to setup their own server and add music to it? |
| 17:28.53 | jasta | so, ideally, Five would gobble up all the space on your SD card. |
| 17:28.59 | jasta | to become more efficient at playback |
| 17:29.20 | jasta | Dougie187: very easy, they just point the server at the folder(s) they want to use. five-server watches them for changes automagically |
| 17:29.21 | DarkriftX | languish, get your G1? |
| 17:29.32 | Dougie187 | cool |
| 17:30.05 | jasta | it needs more work though, the UI should have some more options and UPnP isnt supported yet |
| 17:30.11 | michaelnovakjr_ | working on it :) |
| 17:30.12 | jasta | UPnP is a big deal to support for 1.0 |
| 17:30.27 | jasta | michaelnovakjr_: hmm? |
| 17:30.38 | michaelnovakjr_ | at least the ports for now |
| 17:30.47 | jasta | ahh, well, UPnP needs to be in there too hehe |
| 17:30.52 | michaelnovakjr_ | indeed |
| 17:31.01 | michaelnovakjr_ | that is on my list of things to do |
| 17:31.41 | *** join/#android Rob-cs (n=Rob-cs@pool-72-85-53-213.bltmmd.east.verizon.net) |
| 17:31.45 | jasta | excellent. a small suggestion, i think we should use libupnp if it's portable. |
| 17:32.04 | Rob-cs | Android Rap Song: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9bk9aImCTqE |
| 17:32.17 | jasta | it's a pretty robust library written by Intel |
| 17:32.36 | michaelnovakjr_ | yea, that is what i plan to use |
| 17:33.31 | unix_lappy | heh |
| 17:36.48 | DarkriftX | lol |
| 17:37.00 | DarkriftX | wow, that android rap song, as cheasy as it is sounds like someone put lots of work into it |
| 17:38.02 | *** join/#android kaze (n=kaze@pac33-1-82-235-251-34.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 17:38.18 | tethridge | that rap song was pretty good |
| 17:41.07 | *** join/#android unix_infidel (n=blue@unaffiliated/unixinfidel/x-8383745) |
| 17:49.13 | Rob-cs | i did it |
| 17:49.15 | Rob-cs | ;) |
| 17:49.19 | Rob-cs | hehe |
| 17:49.23 | Rob-cs | it was very cheesy |
| 17:49.33 | Rob-cs | it was just supposed to be entertaining, funny and laughable |
| 17:49.50 | tethridge | Rob-cs, FTW! |
| 17:49.53 | Rob-cs | its funny how many people take it too seriously and tell me I'm "never going to make it big" and stuff haha |
| 17:50.11 | Rob-cs | anyways, glad you guys liked it |
| 17:50.17 | Rob-cs | if it made you smirk, it did its work |
| 17:51.38 | *** join/#android yakischloba (n=jake@209.160.56.254) |
| 17:52.36 | blount | Rob-cs: hahaha nice |
| 17:52.53 | blount | Rob-cs: hahaha nice |
| 17:54.26 | pandora-- | so how many of you have the G1? |
| 17:54.41 | pandora-- | aside of the OS, how's the phone itself? |
| 17:56.01 | Rob-cs | i love it |
| 17:56.09 | Rob-cs | you can see a crap load of reviews i have done on it |
| 17:56.17 | Rob-cs | http://youtube.com/mobileroar |
| 17:56.33 | Rob-cs | the combination of the keyboard, trackball and touchscreen is just so freaking flexible |
| 17:56.42 | Rob-cs | not having an onscreen qwerty can be irritating sometimes |
| 17:56.49 | Rob-cs | but i think the phone is pretty darn amazing |
| 17:57.16 | stadlero | Speaking of rap, it seems that there are also opportunities for android developers who can show off some dance moves: http://jobview.monster.com/GetJob.aspx?JobID=76140423&JobTitle=Software+Engineer+-+Google+Android+Applications&q=android+motorola&brd=1&cy=US&vw=b&AVSDM=2008-09-26+15%3a53%3a00&pg=1&seq=1 |
| 17:57.26 | jasta | Rob-cs: i hope they do develop an osk at some point soon |
| 17:58.02 | Disconnect | is gonna have to whip up a numeric input method before this app is gonna be useful (at least for me) :( |
| 17:58.14 | Disconnect | there are 2-3 screens where its just not worthwhile to open the phone |
| 17:58.22 | unix_lappy | stadlero: no longer available. |
| 17:58.39 | Rob-cs | yeah... |
| 17:58.44 | Rob-cs | if you're searching for "dog" on google |
| 17:58.49 | stadlero | Wow. My apologies. That seems to have been pulled down about 1 minute ago. |
| 17:58.50 | unix_lappy | Rob-cs: how often does that nav panel get in the way of the keyboard? |
| 17:58.52 | Rob-cs | or trying to type in your username/password |
| 17:59.00 | Rob-cs | the nav panel never gets in my way |
| 17:59.04 | Rob-cs | i don't see why people complain |
| 17:59.10 | jasta | what nav panel? |
| 17:59.17 | Rob-cs | he means the chin |
| 17:59.20 | Dougie187 | the "chin" |
| 17:59.23 | jasta | oh |
| 17:59.24 | zhobbs | Rob-cs: it gets in the way if you have headphones/usb plugged in |
| 17:59.32 | Rob-cs | i dont have huge hands either |
| 17:59.33 | wastrel | make a general purpose keyboard app that other apps can call |
| 17:59.39 | wastrel | so you can just call the generic keyboard activity |
| 17:59.42 | wastrel | there should be an intent maybe |
| 17:59.46 | Rob-cs | and the keyboard isnt as big as the voyager, which i have now and love |
| 17:59.59 | Rob-cs | but i'll gladly give up a little keyboard real estate to fit in those dedicated keys |
| 18:00.13 | jasta | zhobbs: argh, we need A2DP! :) |
| 18:00.14 | Rob-cs | its all a trade off and i think the G1 offers a very nice balance and flexibility |
| 18:00.14 | unix_lappy | G1 is getting more and more attractive as new details come in. |
| 18:00.39 | Disconnect | wastrel: thats what i'm thinking i'll have to do. haven't gotten deep into it yet tho. if i code it it'll just be a Label: TextEdit on top, 0-9 [.] [<-] below |
| 18:01.01 | zhobbs | jasta: none of these will actually work right? http://store.androidcommunity.com/content/accessories/73-136.htm |
| 18:01.07 | Disconnect | would rather someone else dealt with it :) |
| 18:01.30 | Disconnect | zhobbs: that store is such a joke |
| 18:01.33 | jasta | zhobbs: no. |
| 18:01.53 | Disconnect | "look its a huge list of random phone accessories. FOR THE G1! (except when they aren't)" |
| 18:01.58 | jasta | zhobbs: A2DP is the stereo bluetooth profile, and it is not supported because Android 1.0 doesn't have software support for it |
| 18:01.59 | zhobbs | wastrel: the problem with having an intent to do that is the application will have to invoke it manually...it really should be Android that decides when it's necassary.... |
| 18:02.02 | Rob-cs | vincent nguyen runs that site |
| 18:02.11 | Rob-cs | he has been a real dick to me in the past for no reason |
| 18:02.15 | Dougie187 | man... they are going to get lots of complaints come wednesday |
| 18:02.19 | zhobbs | wastrel: so we need to mod the framework's TextView to get it to work globally |
| 18:03.04 | jasta | man, this channel is going to change radically in 2 days time :) |
| 18:03.07 | Rob-cs | who wants to write a guest post on phandroid on how android community's accessories won't work with your G1? hahahahaha |
| 18:03.15 | Rob-cs | yeah it will |
| 18:03.16 | wastrel | so the choice is, make app developers support it or make users patch |
| 18:03.19 | wastrel | :] |
| 18:03.21 | Rob-cs | you all should plan a new, secret channel |
| 18:03.27 | Rob-cs | to escape the newbs who pour in |
| 18:03.29 | Rob-cs | hehe |
| 18:03.40 | unix_lappy | jasta: you're going to be the first to come out with a2dp support/ |
| 18:03.42 | Rob-cs | i'm sure you'll leave me in the dust too.. which is okay and i understand :) |
| 18:04.05 | vinse | maybe there should be an #android-dev channel as well, it'll really be too bad, i learn from just reading the logs in this channel right now |
| 18:04.08 | Disconnect | someone did. ##tmobile-g1 .. its full of (well, 5) non-coders who just got the news a few days ago :) |
| 18:04.21 | michaelnovakjr_ | jasta, like the channel hasn't already :) |
| 18:04.38 | Dougie187 | and there was #android-dev as well. and there was only like 5 people in there for 3 days and then noone went anymore |
| 18:04.42 | Dougie187 | or android-devs |
| 18:04.46 | Dougie187 | i don't even remember |
| 18:05.09 | vinse | :/ |
| 18:05.12 | Dougie187 | michaelnovakj_: it depends on who your talking to at any given time. |
| 18:05.17 | Dougie187 | sometimes its not bat. |
| 18:05.19 | Dougie187 | bad* |
| 18:05.37 | DarkriftX | who all got their g1 today? |
| 18:05.40 | zhobbs | I think we'll see some new projects popup once linux geeks start buying the G1 |
| 18:05.41 | f00f- | we need a channel homepage witha list of regulars/lunatics |
| 18:06.00 | DarkriftX | lol f00f- |
| 18:06.01 | Dougie187 | and regular lunatics. |
| 18:06.21 | Dougie187 | or channel idiots. |
| 18:06.30 | *** join/#android poetic_folly|G5 (n=poetic_f@213-39.103-97.tampabay.res.rr.com) |
| 18:06.32 | michaelnovakjr_ | and people we should ban |
| 18:06.39 | DarkriftX | hides |
| 18:06.51 | Dougie187 | michaelnovakj_: that list would just be the union of the idots and the lunatics |
| 18:06.56 | michaelnovakjr_ | :) |
| 18:06.59 | f00f- | :D |
| 18:09.32 | Dougie187 | time for me to get ready for lab. |
| 18:09.41 | Dougie187 | talk to you guys later. have fun setting up a banned list. |
| 18:09.42 | *** part/#android Dougie187 (n=doug@wg-d232125.dsl.fsu.edu) |
| 18:11.58 | Cedric2 | The Android team hard at work: http://beust.com/weblog/archives/000499.html |
| 18:13.31 | *** join/#android JoeBrain (n=JoeBrain@adsl-70-232-148-93.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net) |
| 18:15.41 | *** join/#android Joao_Dantas (i=Joao_Dan@150.165.130.218) |
| 18:16.03 | tric | jasta: the channel already changed alot since last month. there was alot more talk about developing. same with those google groups. |
| 18:16.29 | tethridge | http://www.digthewig08.com/ |
| 18:16.51 | jasta | tric: well before that there was no talk of developing, because the SDK was private. |
| 18:16.56 | jasta | and we were all fucking pissed |
| 18:17.41 | unix_lappy | Cedric2: haha, jason's like, "HEY! i madez miz a rob0tz!" |
| 18:17.49 | unix_lappy | http://picasaweb.google.com/cbeust/AndroidRobotAtGoogle#5259295322987555986 |
| 18:18.47 | muthu_ | nice droid |
| 18:19.05 | wastrel | i'm using one of the android wallpapers on my computer :] |
| 18:19.20 | michaelnovakjr_ | tric, what irc channel are you in? |
| 18:19.29 | michaelnovakjr_ | there's very little development talk in here |
| 18:20.07 | jasta | well i sometimes talk |
| 18:20.08 | jasta | :) |
| 18:20.12 | michaelnovakjr_ | :) |
| 18:20.53 | zhobbs | yeah...used to be a dev channel...now we just talk about touchscreens, headphone jacks and application distribution |
| 18:21.18 | Rob-cs | and lemonade and coffee sometimes |
| 18:21.34 | DarkriftX | you could change that by talking about dev stuff isntead of talking about what everyone talks about |
| 18:21.36 | DarkriftX | lol |
| 18:21.50 | michaelnovakjr_ | hardly |
| 18:22.55 | Joao_Dantas | i'm trying to stream video with vlc and wath with android through multicast |
| 18:23.15 | Joao_Dantas | someone can help me? |
| 18:23.28 | romainguy_ | why is TuneWiki starting up on boot?? |
| 18:23.38 | michaelnovakjr_ | haha |
| 18:24.09 | zhobbs | romainguy_: it receives the MediaStore's SCAN_COMPLETE intent... |
| 18:24.25 | romainguy_ | ah ok then :) |
| 18:24.53 | zhobbs | yeah, I guess MediaStore scans on boot |
| 18:25.00 | romainguy_ | it does |
| 18:25.09 | tomgibara | romainguy_: I came across this today... in between my app changing orientation, the home app becomes visible and looks like this: http://www.tomgibara.com/tmp/home-bad.png |
| 18:26.21 | unix_infidel | yikes. a ping background, that is bad. |
| 18:26.37 | tomgibara | unix_infidel: don't go there... |
| 18:26.51 | Disconnect | was wondering about hte pink too |
| 18:26.55 | romainguy_ | tomgibara: why are you using the wallpaper you hate? |
| 18:26.59 | Cedric2 | http://picasaweb.google.com/burke.eric/AndroidG2# |
| 18:26.59 | tomgibara | I want to make sure my app suits all tastes |
| 18:27.19 | tomgibara | I just happened to be testing it against the pink at that time |
| 18:27.40 | tethridge | don't ask, don't tell. :-) |
| 18:28.25 | tomgibara | Actually, I was working on a mac last night, and I conceed that the pink looked more pleasant (a little) |
| 18:28.33 | benley | Cedric2: http://picasaweb.google.com/cbeust/AndroidRobotAtGoogle |
| 18:28.45 | benley | Cedric2: nevermind, that was stupid to paste |
| 18:28.54 | benley | got that url from this channel to begin with! |
| 18:29.05 | muthu_ | lol |
| 18:29.12 | muthu_ | benley: you have too much time :) |
| 18:29.39 | benley | if I wasn't twiddering around on irc all day I'd be deficient in my job duties :) |
| 18:29.47 | muthu_ | hehe |
| 18:29.56 | benley | (srsly, my team uses irc pretty heavily) |
| 18:30.45 | Cedric2 | Sorry I thought I had pasted the direct link to the album |
| 18:30.50 | Cedric2 | thanks for reposting it |
| 18:31.01 | Cedric2 | I didn't mean to do blogspamming :) |
| 18:31.28 | tomgibara | romainguy_: So is that a known bug, or do I need to hunt out a testcase? |
| 18:31.56 | romainguy_ | no idea |
| 18:31.59 | romainguy_ | file a bug |
| 18:34.13 | tomgibara | I also ran into a problem that *might* be associated with TransitionDrawable... |
| 18:34.32 | tomgibara | This is my app with focus on the textbox: http://www.tomgibara.com/tmp/before.png |
| 18:35.04 | tomgibara | then I press up to move focus to the image view above: http://www.tomgibara.com/tmp/after.png |
| 18:35.20 | tomgibara | That black rectangle isn't mine |
| 18:35.35 | tomgibara | I'm guessing it's something to do with the drawing cache |
| 18:37.20 | tomgibara | (a TransitionDrawable was added to the translucent box containing the text, prior to me spotting this bug, I don't know if it's related) |
| 18:42.11 | *** join/#android borism (n=boris@195-50-199-184-dsl.krw.estpak.ee) |
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| 18:44.27 | *** join/#android ttuttle (n=tom@pdpc/supporter/student/gentoo.contributor.ttuttle) |
| 18:44.46 | ttuttle | Hey, anyone get their G1 yet? |
| 18:45.30 | Disconnect | mine sat in KY for 4 days, and is finally driving cross-country (in PA at the moment) .. if it gets to MD in time I'll prolly have ups hold it and just pick it up after work |
| 18:50.33 | *** join/#android greudin (n=g@wikipedia/Greudin) |
| 18:52.30 | benley | looks forward to seeing people use these thing ostentatiously in bars and such |
| 18:52.34 | Disconnect | heh |
| 18:52.36 | ttuttle | bnovc: heh |
| 18:52.36 | ttuttle | er |
| 18:52.37 | ttuttle | benley: heh |
| 18:52.43 | ttuttle | benley: I'm on it ;-) |
| 18:52.46 | benley | heh |
| 18:52.55 | ttuttle | switches to SSHING FROM HIS AWESOME T-MOBILE G1. |
| 18:52.59 | Disconnect | is famous for doing that @ duclaw.com (but its e90, n800, etc rather than iphone etc..) |
| 18:53.01 | ttuttle | NOTE THE KEYBOARD, iPHONE LUSERS! |
| 18:53.16 | ttuttle | Note: the above was (mostly) sarcastic. |
| 18:53.19 | michaelnovakjr_ | ttuttle: don't need a keyboard :) |
| 18:53.20 | Disconnect | wow it even has a capslock key. that'll raise the stupid bar.. |
| 18:53.23 | michaelnovakjr_ | its onscreen |
| 18:53.43 | michaelnovakjr_ | and i can type just as fast on it as a physical keyboard |
| 18:53.46 | michaelnovakjr_ | :) |
| 18:53.50 | ttuttle | Disconnect: WHAT ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT? CAPS LOCK IS CRUISE CONTROL FOR COOL! |
| 18:53.51 | benley | an onscreen capslock key? win! |
| 18:54.11 | ttuttle | benley: fail |
| 18:54.14 | bnovc | ttuttle: :\ |
| 18:54.14 | michaelnovakjr_ | capslock isn't new guys |
| 18:54.19 | michaelnovakjr_ | :) |
| 18:54.27 | benley | but capslock on a cellphone? you could patent that shit! |
| 18:54.35 | michaelnovakjr_ | uh, i can do it on my phone :) |
| 18:54.43 | benley | "X has been around for 20 years. This patent is for X *ON A CELLPHONE!*" |
| 18:54.45 | michaelnovakjr_ | and just about every phone i've every had with a keyboard |
| 18:54.52 | michaelnovakjr_ | ever* |
| 18:54.59 | bnovc | added capslock to the cell phone keyboard he was coding on last month |
| 18:55.04 | andyross | wonders how long it will be until someone posts a hack for mapping the G1's capslock key to ctrl. |
| 18:55.26 | benley | looks at the g1 keyboard and wonders what key andyross thinks is capslock |
| 18:55.40 | andyross | It was a joke. |
| 18:55.40 | ttuttle | andyross: capslock = shift, shift |
| 18:55.42 | benley | heh |
| 18:55.49 | michaelnovakjr_ | :) |
| 18:55.58 | unix_infidel | wonders how many people are irc-ing on their android phone. |
| 18:56.06 | ttuttle | oh, so i resurrected an old DEC workstation yesterday. |
| 18:56.16 | ttuttle | Alpha processors are fast! |
| 18:56.16 | benley | ttuttle: wow, you really do have too much free time |
| 18:56.35 | benley | is it an ev67? |
| 18:56.35 | ttuttle | benley: i have a kernel to writw, but i was bored |
| 18:56.43 | ttuttle | benley: nah, ev56 |
| 18:56.54 | Disconnect | has an old decstation with netbsd on it. ports 'make index' was on day 35 when the power went out and i didn't have the heart to start over. |
| 18:57.12 | ttuttle | it's a digital personal workstation 433au. 768mb ram! |
| 18:57.16 | benley | woo hoo |
| 18:57.18 | ttuttle | Disconnect: :-( |
| 18:57.23 | Disconnect | want it? |
| 18:57.35 | Rob-cs | you need to change your name from disconnect |
| 18:57.43 | Rob-cs | every time you talk i think my computer effed up |
| 18:57.45 | ttuttle | Disconnect: if you're in pittsburgh, let me know. |
| 18:57.48 | benley | /nick +++ATH |
| 18:57.50 | *** join/#android pjv (n=pjv@91.178.35.191) |
| 18:57.57 | ttuttle | benley++ |
| 18:58.15 | ttuttle | brb |
| 18:58.55 | *** join/#android jasonlee (n=chatzill@38.114.107.11) |
| 18:59.17 | *** part/#android commonsguy (n=chatzill@70.44.71.92.res-cmts.sm.ptd.net) |
| 18:59.36 | Disconnect | ttuttle: just outside DC |
| 19:00.47 | ttuttle | Disconnect: hmm. i don't have much space in my apartment at school, and my parents will kill me if i bring more boxen home. |
| 19:01.04 | benley | ttuttle: solution: get space in some lab at school :) |
| 19:01.13 | Disconnect | but lemme know if you are at all interested, otherwise it goes out for recycling next week. (buddy has a pickup and makes a few bucks off filling it with crap. i have crap like 20" fixed-freq sun CRTs and a decstation and such. win-win. :) ..) |
| 19:01.27 | Disconnect | lol set it up in the mac lab, see who notices |
| 19:01.30 | f00f- | do you ship |
| 19:03.51 | Disconnect | not willingly |
| 19:03.56 | *** join/#android MrSnowflake (n=mrsnowfl@88.197.199.109) |
| 19:04.06 | Disconnect | small stuff sure, but its not worth the effort to ship a 30-40lb monitor |
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| 19:23.23 | Joao_Dantas | somebody worked with muticast? |
| 19:23.44 | Disconnect | cute. http://androidcommunity.com/google-removes-applications-just-before-launch-20081020/ |
| 19:29.17 | unix_infidel | Disconnect: yikes. I know some guys who are going to be PISSED. |
| 19:29.45 | Disconnect | you mean like everyone? :) |
| 19:29.58 | unix_infidel | lol yea and those guys. |
| 19:31.32 | Disconnect | its official, i won't get mine till tomorrow. left new scranton at 3pm for what google maps calls a 4 hour drive. pickup @ the destination ends at 7. so .. ohwell. |
| 19:35.33 | jasonlee | most of the apps didn't have the proper meta-data or were signed with the debug key still.. |
| 19:35.40 | *** join/#android oinkboink (n=dingdong@p5B126AEC.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 19:40.38 | unix_infidel | jasonlee: sorry to hear :-( |
| 19:41.03 | dmoffett | seems like that will be easy to fix and re-add. |
| 19:44.00 | oinkboink | why i cant start this application on the emulator? http://nopaste.org/p/aObCTZYNeb |
| 19:45.00 | *** join/#android meoblast001 (n=meoblast@dynamic-acs-24-239-93-241.zoominternet.net) |
| 19:45.37 | oinkboink | the Application Test has stopped unexpectedly... |
| 19:45.48 | MrSnowflake | check the log |
| 19:45.55 | oinkboink | in eclipse? |
| 19:45.57 | MrSnowflake | Oh |
| 19:45.59 | *** join/#android Terdhex (n=ENRIQUE@host-208-68-238-61.biznesshosting.net) |
| 19:46.08 | MrSnowflake | ediaPlayer mp = MediaPlayer.create(THIS, R.raw.sound) |
| 19:46.31 | *** part/#android Terdhex (n=ENRIQUE@host-208-68-238-61.biznesshosting.net) |
| 19:46.31 | MrSnowflake | An activity is also a context. |
| 19:46.42 | oinkboink | tryed that also... |
| 19:46.52 | MrSnowflake | then check the logcat, that's what it's for |
| 19:47.02 | michaelnovakjr_ | you should pastebin your logcat if its runtime |
| 19:47.25 | jasonlee | dmoffet: yeah, we just re-submitted ShopSavvy.. |
| 19:49.31 | michaelnovakjr_ | oinkboink: you should pastebin your logcat if its a runtime issue |
| 19:51.19 | oinkboink | FileNotFoundException |
| 19:52.21 | oinkboink | its a .wav file located in res/raw/ |
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| 19:54.27 | michaelnovakjr_ | can you pastebin the logcat? |
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| 19:57.18 | covalentbond | Anyone with a G1 know if ANDROID_ID is reliably set? |
| 19:58.09 | oinkboink | http://nopaste.org/p/a8fvN7ucn |
| 19:58.10 | Dialekt | .... |
| 19:58.39 | michaelnovakjr_ | oinkboink: it doesn't like your file |
| 19:59.04 | oinkboink | it doesnt like .wav generally? |
| 19:59.06 | MrSnowflake | what's this? File res/raw/sound from drawable resource ID |
| 19:59.10 | greudin | howdy, is the emulator worky to query a real server of my own? |
| 19:59.14 | MrSnowflake | drawable != raw! |
| 19:59.45 | michaelnovakjr_ | where do you see a drawable? |
| 19:59.59 | *** join/#android romainguy__ (n=gfx@nat/google/x-28f20205b00af482) |
| 20:00.15 | MrSnowflake | E/AndroidRuntime( 296): java.lang.RuntimeException: Unable to start activity Co |
| 20:00.15 | MrSnowflake | mponentInfo{org.test/org.test.Test}: android.content.res.Resources$NotFoundExcep |
| 20:00.15 | MrSnowflake | tion: File res/raw/sound from drawable resource ID #0x7f040000 |
| 20:00.26 | oinkboink | maybe i have to set permissions in the xml-file? |
| 20:01.15 | greudin | is sad |
| 20:02.39 | unix_lappy | http://gizmodo.com/5063778/mophie-juice-pack-for-iphone-3g-lightning-review-it-doubles-the-power |
| 20:02.56 | unix_lappy | hopefully they come out with one for the G1. |
| 20:04.00 | michaelnovakjr_ | oinkboink: why not try playing a file |
| 20:04.31 | michaelnovakjr_ | i haven't messed with the MediaPlayer, but from reading docs it seems to be another way |
| 20:04.51 | greudin | is sad |
| 20:05.00 | Disconnect | greudin: you said that already |
| 20:05.18 | greudin | Disconnect, thank you |
| 20:06.24 | MrSnowflake | Disconnect: He must be very sad. |
| 20:06.33 | Disconnect | clearly |
| 20:06.38 | vinse | comforts greudin |
| 20:07.31 | oinkboink | btw. theres a way to use adb out of eclipse? |
| 20:07.43 | MrSnowflake | yes there is: tools\adb logcat |
| 20:08.03 | michaelnovakjr_ | oinkboink: yes |
| 20:08.46 | greudin | howdy, is the emulator worky to query a real server of my own? |
| 20:09.03 | michaelnovakjr_ | what do you mean by real server? |
| 20:09.08 | *** join/#android harrdawg (i=cff25d0a@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-28e598c27861a418) |
| 20:09.13 | MrSnowflake | what is worky? |
| 20:09.28 | MrSnowflake | if you mean connect to a server somewhere then yes |
| 20:09.30 | MrSnowflake | ... :s |
| 20:10.10 | greudin | a server |
| 20:10.24 | michaelnovakjr_ | what kind of server? what are you trying to achieve? |
| 20:10.25 | greudin | ok it means emulator can reach a server |
| 20:10.45 | MrSnowflake | you can surf on the emu, so why not connect to another non http server?! |
| 20:10.47 | greudin | just asking |
| 20:11.11 | greudin | did only the hello world app |
| 20:11.17 | michaelnovakjr_ | i've written an app that communicates with an app server |
| 20:11.43 | michaelnovakjr_ | it is possible |
| 20:13.53 | languish | <ttuttle> andyross: capslock = shift, shift |
| 20:13.55 | greudin | ok |
| 20:14.04 | languish | wonder how many people will see that and hold down BOTH shift keys |
| 20:14.08 | languish | :/ |
| 20:14.12 | languish | +s |
| 20:17.21 | oinkboink | and what that means? ...File res/raw/sound from drawable resource ID #0x7f040000 |
| 20:19.44 | michaelnovakjr_ | oinkboink: try playing a file |
| 20:19.47 | michaelnovakjr_ | setDataSource |
| 20:26.27 | tomgibara | How can an activity discover the dimensions of a view, after it's layed-out but before it's visible? |
| 20:26.31 | tomgibara | Is it even possible? |
| 20:26.51 | romainguy__ | yes |
| 20:26.55 | romainguy__ | you can use onSizeChanged |
| 20:27.00 | romainguy__ | or a ViewTreeListener |
| 20:27.21 | romainguy__ | I don't remember if onStart() is called before draw or before layout |
| 20:27.28 | tomgibara | I tried to get a ViewTreeListener in onCreate and thought I got null back |
| 20:28.01 | romainguy__ | in 1.0?? |
| 20:28.32 | tomgibara | yes, but looking at my code, maybe I've got the wrong thing: I tried: overlay.getViewTreeObserver() |
| 20:28.39 | tomgibara | (overlay is my view) |
| 20:28.56 | romainguy__ | argh yes ViewTreeObserver, not listener |
| 20:30.53 | umdk1d3 | does setImageResource "cache" the resources it loads? |
| 20:31.12 | romainguy__ | what you mean by cache? |
| 20:31.30 | umdk1d3 | my listview is chunky, and im wondering if its becasue i do that in getView() |
| 20:31.33 | tomgibara | romainguy__: sorry, my bug |
| 20:31.40 | romainguy__ | umdk1d3: it doesn't cache |
| 20:31.43 | romainguy__ | umdk1d3: your fault :) |
| 20:31.54 | umdk1d3 | lol |
| 20:32.08 | zhobbs | wow, people are really spazzing out in these comments: http://feeds.gawker.com/~r/gizmodo/full/~3/426743584/google-takes-down-applications-from-marketplace-world-gets-weird-deja-vu |
| 20:35.00 | umdk1d3 | yay its fast now ^.^ |
| 20:36.43 | plusminus_ | 13 apps o_O |
| 20:36.48 | plusminus_ | I'd be disappointed |
| 20:38.03 | umdk1d3 | plusminus_: the market isnt open for developers yet tho |
| 20:38.32 | MrSnowflake | umdk1d3: that's a real good excuse... There are customer who received their G1 already |
| 20:39.26 | jt436 | but the official launch date isn't until the 22nd |
| 20:39.33 | jt436 | some people are just lucky |
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| 20:40.29 | oinkboink | also not working http://nopaste.org/p/adtK3icwnb |
| 20:40.51 | umdk1d3 | oinkboink: you dont get "C:\" |
| 20:41.01 | yakischloba | rofl |
| 20:41.04 | umdk1d3 | might look at putting the wav in your res/raw folder |
| 20:41.10 | muthu_ | plusminus_: 43 apps here: http://andappstore.com/AndroidPhoneApplications/apps/!list |
| 20:41.11 | umdk1d3 | then opening via resource stream |
| 20:41.21 | michaelnovakjr_ | yes |
| 20:41.26 | michaelnovakjr_ | c:/ will definitely not work |
| 20:41.31 | MrSnowflake | jt436: I know, but their Android experience has started already |
| 20:41.35 | plusminus_ | muthu_: maybe 1% is aware of andappstore and slidme.org ;( |
| 20:41.44 | michaelnovakjr_ | yea plusminus_ agreed |
| 20:41.53 | michaelnovakjr_ | its be a bit of a rocky launch |
| 20:41.58 | michaelnovakjr_ | with this whole pre-order business |
| 20:42.01 | muthu_ | plusminus_: yeah, wonder how many are trying andappstore and slideme |
| 20:42.11 | michaelnovakjr_ | probably not many |
| 20:42.16 | muthu_ | hmm |
| 20:42.32 | plusminus_ | we'll see :/ |
| 20:42.36 | plusminus_ | g2g bye guys |
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| 20:43.07 | MrSnowflake | I think G1 users will know about slidme and such, because the early adaptors for android are most likely a bit tech savvy |
| 20:43.40 | languish | Question, how to factory reset G1? |
| 20:43.43 | languish | lala |
| 20:43.58 | romainguy__ | languish: isn't it in the manual? |
| 20:44.00 | VickiWong | you guys mean slideme.org not slidme right? |
| 20:44.13 | VickiWong | seen 3 people say slidme so far |
| 20:44.14 | michaelnovakjr_ | ys |
| 20:44.21 | languish | romainguy, it may be, I haven't got the manual with me atm, let alone my G1. |
| 20:44.24 | MrSnowflake | i don't even know slidme, I had a typo going on |
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| 20:53.19 | languish | Arrrgghh |
| 20:53.22 | languish | G1 arrived, but promised wife I would wait for her to open them |
| 20:53.35 | languish | having a geekchic is awesome, except in these circumstance :| |
| 20:53.41 | f00f- | hahahahah |
| 20:53.41 | romainguy__ | haha |
| 20:53.45 | languish | +s |
| 20:54.06 | f00f- | i put in my order today, let's see how it goes |
| 20:54.12 | languish | lol |
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| 20:54.31 | languish | why didn't you just hit up a tmo store manager to get one on wed? |
| 20:54.53 | languish | or you mean backchannel order as a dev |
| 20:55.35 | languish | friend is saying his boss is raking in the cash accepting bribes to hold g1's for people |
| 20:55.53 | languish | he's up 2 grand |
| 20:55.55 | languish | :| |
| 20:56.16 | umdk1d3 | wtf? |
| 20:56.50 | languish | knowing his boss, he won;t even bother to hold them |
| 20:57.03 | languish | "the truck never came" |
| 20:57.04 | f00f- | heh, for exactly that reason :P |
| 20:57.05 | unix_lappy | hmm, is motorola is releasing an Android phone q2 fiscal or calendar year 09? |
| 20:57.12 | languish | f00f-, lol |
| 20:57.38 | languish | f00f-, this guy is an exceptional scumbag, even for a sales guy |
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| 20:59.08 | languish | unix_infidel, a companies fiscal year can wifely vary, so it's likely calendar year, though don't expect them to hit the target date |
| 20:59.19 | languish | *wdely vary |
| 20:59.21 | languish | ugh |
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| 21:00.45 | unix_lappy | languish: yea, giving me more and more incentive to get a G1. |
| 21:00.50 | languish | :D |
| 21:01.22 | languish | well, I see the G1 as a temp device anyway. 6 to 8 months and I'll be picking up something new. likely a new android device, but we'll see what's out then. |
| 21:01.48 | languish | I'm hpoing for a revision to the touch pro, android style |
| 21:02.19 | m-c- | Greetings. Will Android be supporting Adobe's Flash Player client, at least on the upcoming T-Mobile G1? |
| 21:02.42 | unix_lappy | meh, I've deduced the Touch Pro has a lot of the same flaws as the G1, just looks prettier. |
| 21:02.46 | unix_lappy | and costs more. |
| 21:03.06 | languish | unix_infidel, yep. but it has a "flash" such as it is, and I like the keyboard better |
| 21:03.16 | languish | and so pretty, so very very pretty |
| 21:03.18 | languish | :| |
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| 21:04.20 | languish | the lack of led flash for the G1 really throws me off |
| 21:05.14 | romainguy_ | any cellphone camera throws me off, with or without led |
| 21:05.20 | m-c- | I am wondering if Android will be supporting Flash Player content, and, if not, then what will Google be doing to make their every-popular YouTube content available to those platforms. |
| 21:05.36 | michaelnovakjr_ | m-c-: they don't need flash for it |
| 21:05.50 | michaelnovakjr_ | i wouldn't worry about youtube support |
| 21:05.53 | m-c- | How does google not need flash for it? |
| 21:05.56 | languish | m-c-, there is a youtube video player already |
| 21:06.02 | languish | for the G1 |
| 21:06.03 | michaelnovakjr_ | look at the iPhone |
| 21:06.07 | michaelnovakjr_ | it has a playe |
| 21:06.07 | michaelnovakjr_ | r |
| 21:06.17 | m-c- | My understanding is the iPhone does not have flash player support. |
| 21:06.21 | andyross | Youtube just serves static files. You need a player for VP6 and a parser for the .flv format. You don't need the actual flash applet. |
| 21:06.30 | michaelnovakjr_ | dude, it has youtube support, not flash |
| 21:06.35 | michaelnovakjr_ | youtube != flash |
| 21:06.49 | m-c- | okay .... I get that much, but how is it made accessible? |
| 21:07.00 | Disconnect | with an app |
| 21:07.01 | andyross | (To be fair: in discussions about "killer applications" on the web, youtube most certainly == flash. But that's about a different subject) |
| 21:07.20 | m-c- | Is it a Totem media player type interface that accesses the FLV file directly? |
| 21:07.20 | michaelnovakjr_ | how does youtube == flash? |
| 21:07.40 | f00f- | calm down |
| 21:07.43 | languish | andyross, not really. I use vlc player to view youtube flv's |
| 21:08.05 | f00f- | well, most youtube content is accessible over RTSP streams |
| 21:08.13 | andyross | The point being that to first approximation, the only reason anyone bothers with flash is for youtube videos. It's the killer application that took a cute (but terribly overused) interactive graphics format and turned it into a must have for modern web surfing. |
| 21:08.13 | *** join/#android Zer0reZ (n=Z@cpe-74-67-48-253.nycap.res.rr.com) |
| 21:08.26 | f00f- | that's how the youtube for java me client works, i thought |
| 21:08.36 | michaelnovakjr_ | i was dependent on flash long before youtube came around |
| 21:08.45 | michaelnovakjr_ | (just saying) |
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| 21:08.49 | languish | andyross, that approximation is flawed |
| 21:09.01 | languish | flash was well received for a variety of things before youtube |
| 21:09.18 | jasta | yawn |
| 21:09.22 | andyross | Movie sites. Meh. Not an argument worth having. |
| 21:09.31 | m-c- | So since this is a Google developed platform, I figured they would not exclude access to YouTube (their own video sharing site). I am very curious how they make it accessible without Flash Player. |
| 21:10.02 | romainguy_ | m-c-: there's a YouTube application |
| 21:10.07 | SamuraiHack | m-c it could be another format that they serve to antroid phones that connect with the correct device ID |
| 21:10.08 | m-c- | I would love to see Android compel Google to make YouTube videos available in a more open format, specifiically Ogg/Theora. |
| 21:10.10 | romainguy_ | and when you click a YouTube link, you can open it in the YouTube app instead of the browser |
| 21:10.16 | andyross | m-c-: Again, it's not hard. Even if you don't have access to youtube's internal metadata, just parse the HTML page, find the FLV parameter (there are hacks on the web to let you do this), and download the file and play it. |
| 21:10.28 | michaelnovakjr_ | indeed |
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| 21:11.13 | languish | m-c-, put it this way.. flash is used as a viewing application for youtube videos. Other applications can do the same. the G1 has one of those. |
| 21:12.19 | m-c- | andyross, Yes, agreed that it is not hard to directly link to the FLV file within the YouTube page. Firefox plugins like VideoDownloader make that obvious. But much of the YouTube service is the web information that surrounds the video (recommendations, login, preferences, and ADVERTISING). Surely Google will not be eliminating all this in favor for directly accessing the FLV in a media player? |
| 21:12.45 | f00f- | of course |
| 21:12.51 | f00f- | it's in their best interest to keep the associated features |
| 21:13.05 | *** join/#android anno^da_ (n=anno^da@p5B07F74A.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 21:13.07 | michaelnovakjr_ | absolutely |
| 21:13.12 | michaelnovakjr_ | the ADVERTISING IS KEY |
| 21:13.20 | michaelnovakjr_ | without that.... youtube is..... |
| 21:13.54 | SamuraiHack | has anyone played with the youtube application on the device yet? I did not see any ads on the demo version i was playing with today |
| 21:14.02 | andyross | m-c-: But all that information is, likewise, on the page. Even if you weren't google (and youtube *is* google) you'd be able to write that application. |
| 21:15.03 | m-c- | andyross, so, you suspect (or know) that Android will have an application to view YouTube content that will include the web services that are also on the YouTube web pages? |
| 21:15.41 | andyross | No me, certainly. My phone doesn't get delivered until tomorrow. But certainly if you want to follow the comments on a video or whatever, you can do that with the existing browser. |
| 21:15.52 | romainguy_ | m-c-: there is a YouTube application |
| 21:16.26 | m-c- | romainguy, but will that YouTube Application support the rest of the YouTube.com web services, that I listed above? |
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| 21:17.58 | languish | wow, talk about one track mind. |
| 21:18.05 | michaelnovakjr_ | haha |
| 21:18.07 | languish | m-c-, go to a t-mobile store and see for yourself |
| 21:18.52 | languish | or come back here later on, and I'll tell you |
| 21:19.06 | languish | to go to a t-mobile store and see for yourself. |
| 21:19.30 | andyross | Are G1's in stores yet? I thought it was still early-access only. |
| 21:19.51 | languish | store reps have them, and demo's should be out |
| 21:20.08 | Rob-cs | 22nd |
| 21:20.10 | Rob-cs | wednesday |
| 21:20.13 | Rob-cs | is the retail sales day |
| 21:20.33 | SamuraiHack | languish, i demo'd the handset in store today and they did have a player (that didn't make use of the accelerometer on this device) but it was very basic. no features but find and play. sorta sucks to have to use two different programs to make a comment or view the video |
| 21:20.38 | m-c- | I am really not very concerned whether I will be able to access YouTube content, rather I am more interested in how obvious it is to Android developers that it is detrimental to have their single video distribution service based on a closed technology - which is licensed and controlled by a competitor. |
| 21:21.03 | languish | m-c-, SamuraiHack just answered you |
| 21:21.06 | languish | SamuraiHack, thanks |
| 21:21.44 | andyross | Competitor? Uh, youtube is a google subsidiary.... |
| 21:21.44 | tomgibara | romainguy_: Is there a way of instantaneously switching a TransitionDrawable to the second layer? |
| 21:21.47 | tomgibara | I tried t.startTransition(0) in the onCreate method, but the first state was still momentarily visible |
| 21:21.49 | languish | m-c-, have you considered that devs can create their own video distrobution service? |
| 21:22.16 | languish | m-c-, the device will allow youtube competitors |
| 21:22.23 | languish | it's not a big deal |
| 21:22.43 | m-c- | We'll see. |
| 21:22.45 | languish | there will be .wmv players |
| 21:23.09 | michaelnovakjr_ | the iPhone gives a bit more |
| 21:23.10 | languish | so go create your own Ogg/theora video streaming service |
| 21:23.32 | michaelnovakjr_ | gives related videos, ability to bookmark, share, and gives the metadata for the video clip |
| 21:23.36 | jasta | actually, don't, because android doesnt support ogg streaming ) |
| 21:23.38 | jasta | erm :) |
| 21:23.41 | SamuraiHack | and 16GB HCSDmicro cards (not sure if the patch is pre-installed or if it has to be downloaded after retial) |
| 21:23.43 | michaelnovakjr_ | :) |
| 21:23.47 | languish | jasta, lol |
| 21:23.51 | andyross | Indeed. The codec and playback API is documented in the SDK. You can write any video distribution service that you want with the tools in the box. |
| 21:24.08 | michaelnovakjr_ | yea yo so get to work :) |
| 21:24.22 | jasta | SamuraiHack: you demo'd a phone today!? |
| 21:24.22 | m-c- | languish, like BLIP.tv, Theora Sea, TinyVid, V2V, or Wikimedia Commons? |
| 21:24.32 | languish | m-c-, yes. |
| 21:24.39 | m-c- | Okay, I'll get right on it. |
| 21:24.52 | jasta | andyross: come again? it most certainly is not in 1.0r1 |
| 21:24.57 | andyross | Pretty sure I read that the G1 *does* support 16G SDHC cards, no? If not, I ordered one for nought... |
| 21:24.58 | SamuraiHack | jasta, yes. it's cool! |
| 21:25.06 | jasta | SamuraiHack: how the fuck? could you buy it? |
| 21:25.10 | SamuraiHack | no |
| 21:25.14 | SamuraiHack | just a store demo |
| 21:25.21 | jasta | but they just have them sitting there? that's nuts. i will steal one |
| 21:25.26 | michaelnovakjr_ | haha |
| 21:25.28 | SamuraiHack | i went to one of the stores and a clerk pulled it out of the back |
| 21:25.33 | languish | andyross, the G1 does work with at least 1 16GB microsdhc card sucessfully. |
| 21:25.37 | languish | lol |
| 21:26.12 | andyross | jasta: http://code.google.com/android/reference/android/media/package-summary.html I haven't written any code mind, you, just skimmed the docs. But what's there looks like a media framework to me... |
| 21:26.17 | SamuraiHack | it's a live display model (won't accept microSD for security reasons), but everything else worked (except the 3g isn't live in the area yet, so didn't get to test full data, just EDGE) |
| 21:26.31 | jasta | andyross: lol |
| 21:26.42 | languish | yeah, all the t-mobile stores around me have a working G1 in the store for the reps to test out, and demo for customers that ask |
| 21:26.54 | jasta | languish: that's great, will they let you install apps on it? |
| 21:27.01 | languish | jasta, yes |
| 21:27.06 | SamuraiHack | languish. yeah, you bet i asked to see it :D |
| 21:27.12 | languish | SamuraiHack :) |
| 21:27.16 | jasta | andyross: that system is most certainly NOT flexible. and it's buggier than hell. ogg vorbis streaming is not supported. |
| 21:27.36 | languish | jasta, 'eh, it will be at some point |
| 21:27.44 | andyross | OK, but that's rather a different level of support than "most certainly not". :) |
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| 21:28.02 | jasta | languish: judging from informed commenters, not for a long time. the code is in bad shape |
| 21:28.08 | languish | :( |
| 21:28.17 | jasta | _very_ bad. |
| 21:28.18 | andyross | And by streaming not supported, you mean by the builtins? Surely you could load and buffer it yourself, no? |
| 21:28.28 | jasta | andyross: *LOL*!!!! |
| 21:28.34 | jasta | oh my god i am dying laughing right now |
| 21:28.49 | jasta | andyross: you go ahead and try writing code against any of those packages. you just try :) |
| 21:29.05 | andyross | I swear. Some day I'm going to learn that asking sane questions of the 13 years olds on IRC just isn't worth it. |
| 21:29.13 | andyross | puts jasta on ignore |
| 21:29.15 | languish | btw I forget, when does G plan on open sourcing android? |
| 21:29.24 | languish | rather, releasing the sourc |
| 21:29.24 | languish | e |
| 21:29.32 | jasta | andyross: lol, 13 year olds? Try an engineer who has wrestled with the broken MediaPlayer for the last 10 months. |
| 21:29.38 | SamuraiHack | languish, should be launch day |
| 21:29.45 | SamuraiHack | but i'm not sure |
| 21:29.51 | SamuraiHack | just a rumor i heard |
| 21:29.55 | michaelnovakjr_ | languish: definitely not launch day |
| 21:30.03 | michaelnovakjr_ | its going to be a bit i assume |
| 21:30.16 | languish | yeah, I know it won't be launch day. I heard late november |
| 21:30.25 | languish | but that's just rumor until they do it |
| 21:30.33 | michaelnovakjr_ | :) |
| 21:30.37 | andyross | Strictly: T-Mobile is one the hook for the GPL parts of the source code the instant they ship the device. It won't be long before people start getting restless. |
| 21:30.45 | SamuraiHack | churns the rumor mill |
| 21:31.10 | romainguy_ | andyross: the GPL parts are already available |
| 21:31.27 | andyross | For the G1? I looked but couldn't find anything. You have a link? |
| 21:31.36 | michaelnovakjr_ | romainguy_ the java layer isn't though correct? just the kernel? |
| 21:31.38 | jasta | andyross: you didnt look very hard. there is a git tree with everything. |
| 21:31.45 | romainguy_ | michaelnovakjr_: there's no GPL code on the java layers |
| 21:31.51 | m-c- | andyross, should be interesting whether technologies surrounding SIM chips and cell frequencies are open sourced |
| 21:31.51 | michaelnovakjr_ | its Apache correct? |
| 21:32.10 | taaz | jasta: will your hacks or the native mediaplayer play raw audio feeds of some sort? |
| 21:32.28 | jasta | taaz: my hacks can only play what the MediaPlayer supports over HTTP, so, no :) |
| 21:32.40 | jasta | so far from what i can tell, the MediaPlayer actually only supports MP3s |
| 21:32.43 | andyross | m-c-: They won't be. At most, the hardware interface will be documented. The SIM consortium requires an NDA. I have a kernel for my A780 that works like that. romainguy_: link/pointer to the G1 kernel code? |
| 21:32.46 | jasta | it's the most miserable, broken pile of CRAP i have ever used. |
| 21:32.56 | taaz | jasta: what about wav? |
| 21:33.03 | taaz | or something simple like that |
| 21:33.05 | jasta | taaz: wav should work, though i haven't tested it. |
| 21:33.29 | jasta | for my usage, wav is irrelevant. it would be very easy to try tho. check this out: |
| 21:33.40 | Cedric2 | b |
| 21:33.45 | languish | c |
| 21:33.48 | Cedric2 | oops |
| 21:33.54 | jasta | taaz: http://code.google.com/p/five/source/browse/trunk/five-music/src/org/devtcg/five/music/activity/StreamMediaPlayerTest.java |
| 21:33.55 | Cedric2 | That was me attempting to build on the wrong machine |
| 21:33.58 | taaz | an interesting hack might be to try using cortado to do java decode of vorbis and stream that locally to the mediaplayer |
| 21:33.58 | jasta | here is some sample code utilizing my work-arounds |
| 21:34.02 | languish | :) |
| 21:34.03 | taaz | http://www.flumotion.net/cortado/ |
| 21:34.05 | jasta | so if you modify STREAM_URI here, you can easily test what it can do :) |
| 21:34.13 | andyross | Can anyone confirm romainguy_'s assertion that the GPL source is available? I'm seriously interested, but can't find any references that say this has actually been released. |
| 21:34.26 | jasta | taaz: well that would be pointless. the mediaplayer plays oggs locally. it "supports" them. |
| 21:34.30 | jasta | it just can't stream them over HTTP |
| 21:34.41 | romainguy_ | andyross: http://code.google.com/p/android/downloads/list |
| 21:34.53 | m-c- | andyross, hmm! thanks for your insight |
| 21:34.55 | jasta | andyross: yes, as i just said, there is a git tree. |
| 21:35.01 | romainguy_ | + the git tree |
| 21:35.07 | romainguy_ | just what jasta said |
| 21:35.09 | andyross | That's the SDK though. Not the G1 sources. I wanted the device-specific kernel. |
| 21:35.19 | jasta | what a tard |
| 21:35.28 | michaelnovakjr_ | wow |
| 21:35.28 | fadden | http://git.android.com/ |
| 21:35.30 | michaelnovakjr_ | dude |
| 21:35.30 | romainguy_ | andyross: that's the device's kernel... |
| 21:35.38 | taaz | jasta: ok. i'm just bothered that i won't be able to use five as easily with my music collection. looking for a workaround :) |
| 21:35.40 | michaelnovakjr_ | the kernel is available, sdk isn't |
| 21:35.44 | jasta | taaz: oh you will :) |
| 21:35.54 | jasta | Five is going to [very soon] support transcoding. |
| 21:36.01 | andyross | For the T-Mobile G1? That's not what it says. There's a difference between a kernel to compile on the emulator and the one (with drivers!) that's actually shipping on the device. |
| 21:36.03 | f00f- | on the server-side i hope |
| 21:36.03 | jasta | the feature was designed to support FLACs, but is easily adapted to Ogg |
| 21:36.04 | taaz | jasta: what kind of access do you do to the files? |
| 21:36.15 | taaz | on the server side |
| 21:36.34 | romainguy_ | andyross: it is the same kernel |
| 21:36.36 | fadden | "The kernel.git repository currently contains generic Android patches |
| 21:36.37 | jasta | what do you mean? the server just is pointed at a path and it traverses/watches it for audio files it supports |
| 21:36.40 | fadden | (supporting the Android SDK Emulator "goldfish" platform) and |
| 21:36.44 | fadden | support for the Qualcomm MSM7K family of devices. |
| 21:36.50 | fadden | " |
| 21:38.11 | taaz | jasta: i was wondering what kind of access it does to the files. does it need to read out all the metadata? |
| 21:38.36 | andyross | fadden: where's that quote from? This is looking like a dead-end to me. Support for the CPU doesn't get you much, sadly. |
| 21:38.40 | jasta | taaz: it does read out meta data yes. |
| 21:38.40 | taaz | there are cute tricks like gstfs which is a fuse fs that transcodes all files on the fly. but if you hit each one for metadata it's probably rather inefficient |
| 21:38.47 | jasta | taaz: and to support transcoding, it would have to read the entire file of course |
| 21:38.54 | fadden | andyross: from the URL I pasted about a minute ago: http://git.android.com/ |
| 21:39.05 | jasta | taaz: oh, transcoding will be simple really. no need for such a complex layer. |
| 21:39.36 | jasta | taaz: i'll just build with libflac and libvorbis... |
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| 21:40.12 | jasta | it's just not at the current top of my priority list just yet. it's moving there soon though since most of my collection is ogg/flac |
| 21:40.39 | *** join/#android VickiWong (n=denvar@p5B056FEB.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 21:41.28 | taaz | jasta: will five do local files too or just server side streaming? |
| 21:42.49 | jasta | yes: http://code.google.com/p/five/issues/detail?id=36 |
| 21:43.54 | jasta | right now i'm focusing on hardening the sync process (it has a couple of esoteric corner cases that can break it) |
| 21:43.57 | *** join/#android radio_Activv (n=radio_Ac@196.201.208.129) |
| 21:44.07 | jasta | then it's back to a few UI touchups, then probably ogg/flac support. |
| 21:44.13 | jasta | if you were curious for my roadmap :) |
| 21:46.14 | taaz | i'd care more if i had any expectation of actually being able to buy a g1 in the next month |
| 21:46.40 | jasta | well, that's for the better, Five won't be ready for most users until about a month :) |
| 21:46.55 | jasta | err rather, even geeky users ;) |
| 21:46.58 | radio_Activv | Bin hearing all this talk about "android"! Is it some type of opensource phone ,? |
| 21:47.00 | jasta | most users, eh, a few months |
| 21:47.26 | jasta | hey has anyone noticed android.com has changed a lot? |
| 21:47.31 | taaz | and i suppose i'd think a streaming player was much more awsome if it was smart enough to pick a local server before a remote one |
| 21:47.32 | *** join/#android jbailey (n=jeffbail@nat/google/x-2b01d5829721d4bc) |
| 21:48.20 | jasta | taaz: what? |
| 21:48.22 | taaz | seems kind of silly to stream media from home when i could just copy the files to the local box to play them |
| 21:48.36 | jasta | well you could once i support it |
| 21:48.39 | jasta | but thats hardly the point |
| 21:48.40 | taaz | err... i'm not making sense, sorry :) |
| 21:48.52 | jasta | i think you dont understand what five does maybe |
| 21:48.56 | jasta | :) |
| 21:49.00 | jasta | or something |
| 21:49.23 | jasta | but yes, it is a planned feature to integrate with media already on the phone. so if you wanted to bulk copy a bunch of files to your sdcard, fine, it will eventually deal with this |
| 21:49.59 | radio_Activv | How much is g1 going for in US? |
| 21:50.09 | jasta | $179 w/ 2 year t-mobile contract |
| 21:50.20 | SamuraiHack | or ~$350 off contract |
| 21:50.40 | andyross | Are they selling it w/o contracts? |
| 21:50.51 | jasta | andyross: they say they will; they currently are not. |
| 21:50.57 | SamuraiHack | according to the T-Mo CTO |
| 21:51.00 | radio_Activv | Wpeeeew, wow thats a lil extream |
| 21:51.12 | SamuraiHack | we'll find out in a few days |
| 21:51.15 | jasta | radio_Activv: its like any other smartphone. please don't troll. |
| 21:51.27 | andyross | Wonder who you have to find to buy one. Right now all they're advertising is the $179 deal for existing subscribers |
| 21:51.55 | SamuraiHack | andyross, that should apply to new customers as well |
| 21:52.02 | SamuraiHack | (plz don't quote me) |
| 21:52.43 | radio_Activv | & is the android in it beta? Or is it stable |
| 21:52.45 | andyross | Already ordered mine anyway. Only reason to get one off contract would be to ebay it I guess, and I'm sure more enterprising people would beat me to that. |
| 21:53.08 | jasta | radio_Activv: depends who you ask. it is currently running on a consumer device launching Wed. |
| 21:53.45 | jasta | radio_Activv: google around, there are plenty of reviews for your to read. and info all over. |
| 21:53.54 | jasta | for you to* |
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| 21:55.07 | radio_Activv | jasta: 1question, is it opensource |
| 21:55.13 | SamuraiHack | andyross: or if T-mo screwed you. i bought my last phone 20 months ago, when the upgrades were allowed every 18 months, and they are saying i cannot renew till january. so i'm buying off contract and looking at other providers to move to as a possibility. i think they are all as bad on the upgrade time though |
| 21:55.27 | andyross | Well, yeah. "Phone company". Enough said. |
| 21:56.08 | jasta | radio_Activv: currently, no. soon, yes. |
| 21:57.24 | taaz | what's a good way to design a list that has the typical icon + some text but lazy loads the content and icons as you scroll? |
| 21:57.29 | *** part/#android Terdhex (n=FIH\enri@host-208-68-238-61.biznesshosting.net) |
| 21:57.59 | jasta | taaz: TunesRemote has a good example of this |
| 21:58.07 | radio_Activv | so whats all the excitement about, it sounds like another symbian/windows mobile type of thing, unless its more customizable |
| 21:58.20 | jasta | radio_Activv: please, don't troll. we aren't interested in it. |
| 21:58.42 | andyross | radio_Activv: it's an open iPhone, basically. That's the hook. Right now it appeals mostly to developers. |
| 21:58.45 | jasta | you clearly don't care to learn what truly is different about it, and so you've no business whipping up a discussion you aren't interested in. |
| 21:58.46 | waldo_ | radio_activ.. there's plenty of info online |
| 21:59.07 | SamuraiHack | can we have the op kill the troll? :D |
| 21:59.49 | radio_Activv | slaps SamuraiHack |
| 21:59.50 | waldo_ | is thre an #androiddevelopers type channel in her? |
| 21:59.50 | radio_Activv | hops on a jet and flies away |
| 22:00.02 | waldo_ | here |
| 22:00.18 | SamuraiHack | waldo_, i think this is it for now |
| 22:00.37 | SamuraiHack | there's always /list |
| 22:00.46 | waldo_ | hmm.. we need an android-dev or something... cuz the place is gonna fill up with people- - tried /list android* didn't seea nything |
| 22:01.28 | jasta | honestly, once this thing gets out there, i might just part here :) |
| 22:01.36 | jasta | it will become such drivel |
| 22:01.41 | SamuraiHack | lol |
| 22:01.53 | waldo_ | jasta exactly |
| 22:01.56 | SamuraiHack | jasta, have you typed /join #ubuntu lately? |
| 22:02.03 | SamuraiHack | he he he |
| 22:03.15 | umdk1d3 | jasta: we need a #android-devs or something :P |
| 22:04.01 | radio_Activv | is there a linux ported to cellphones? Its strange coz searches dont show any details |
| 22:04.32 | jasta | radio_Activv: tons and tons of examples. you just can't search because you're an idiot. |
| 22:04.36 | jasta | now please just go away |
| 22:04.48 | SamuraiHack | jasta, plz dn't feed the trolz |
| 22:05.05 | jasta | sigh. |
| 22:05.07 | SamuraiHack | if you starve him, he'll go away |
| 22:05.17 | radio_Activv | Its cool, am out |
| 22:05.21 | SamuraiHack | we all just have to ignore him |
| 22:05.23 | umdk1d3 | ooh trolls =D |
| 22:05.27 | *** part/#android radio_Activv (n=radio_Ac@196.201.208.129) |
| 22:05.30 | SamuraiHack | woot! |
| 22:05.41 | jasta | i need to go around tonight and make sure the t-mobile store by my house has plenty of stock :) |
| 22:05.49 | SamuraiHack | queues up "Ding dong, the witch is dead" |
| 22:06.21 | gambler | umdk1d3, thats a good idea. A lower traffic channel with a higher signal to noise ratio. |
| 22:06.26 | SamuraiHack | they don't have stock here... since the 3g network isn't ready yet. you walk into the store, order it, and they overnight you one (according to the rep) |
| 22:07.05 | andyross | The existence of radio waves in the air prevents them from offering physical boxes in a store ... ? |
| 22:07.11 | romainguy_ | SanMehat: depends on where, the 3g network is just fine here |
| 22:07.13 | andyross | Trying to figure that out. |
| 22:07.32 | MrSnowflake | jasta: what theme you use, and is that emerald? |
| 22:07.39 | *** join/#android VickiWong (n=denvar@p5B056FEB.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 22:07.46 | SamuraiHack | results should be different for a city with an active network already in place |
| 22:07.48 | jasonchen | wonders if everyone on #android has seen the giant Bugdroid delivered to Google today |
| 22:07.57 | jasta | we saw it |
| 22:08.00 | jasta | no one cares jason :) |
| 22:08.14 | jasonchen | jasta: of course not. they're all waiting for their phones. |
| 22:08.19 | jasonchen | :-P |
| 22:08.21 | SamuraiHack | yes |
| 22:08.40 | SamuraiHack | bring on the phones. ok. i'm done making noise. |
| 22:09.27 | jasta | MrSnowflake: erm, i think so. |
| 22:10.10 | MrSnowflake | jasta: and what theme (on the screen on five.googlecode.com |
| 22:10.28 | MrSnowflake | me likes |
| 22:10.29 | jasta | i think it's just the default black whatever one |
| 22:10.35 | jasta | its got black in the name, part of the default set |
| 22:10.41 | jasta | i cant remember :) |
| 22:10.47 | MrSnowflake | :), ubuntu? |
| 22:11.04 | jasta | i use compiz, so i guess you could associate that with ubuntu if you want |
| 22:11.20 | MrSnowflake | yeah, but the default themes could be different |
| 22:11.35 | jasta | i dont think so actually, i use it on debian and ubuntu and they were teh same |
| 22:11.54 | taaz | jasta: thanks. looks like that tunesremote code is just about what i was looking for. or at least a good base for what i need. |
| 22:11.56 | jasta | it's called scaled black mod |
| 22:12.24 | MrSnowflake | thanks man! |
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| 22:14.12 | jasta | lol, i'm so gonna get my t-mobile service shut off |
| 22:14.25 | jasta | just sitting here at work listening to Stars i downloaded like 300MB :) |
| 22:20.08 | jasta | i guess i would be on wi-fi here normally |
| 22:22.49 | *** join/#android Dougie187 (n=doug@68.35.245.156) |
| 22:34.14 | *** join/#android iDialekt__ (n=Mobile@166.135.168.95) |
| 22:34.17 | JoeBrain | yeah I'd say sooner than later someone's going to start #android-dev |
| 22:34.35 | JoeBrain | plenty of people get their phones on wed? |
| 22:34.56 | iDialekt__ | Irc client? |
| 22:35.48 | languish | wtf |
| 22:36.14 | iDialekt__ | ?? |
| 22:36.17 | languish | "This account cannot be used on the phone because it is missing the following applications: cl, talk." |
| 22:36.29 | iDialekt__ | stares at languish |
| 22:36.37 | languish | wtf google wtf |
| 22:36.39 | iDialekt__ | WTF |
| 22:36.41 | benley | wat? |
| 22:37.04 | iDialekt__ | Man the g1 came out too early |
| 22:37.06 | languish | that's the error I get when signing in for the first time |
| 22:37.13 | Dougie187 | languish: did you try logging in to calendar? |
| 22:37.15 | Cedric2 | what email address are you entering? |
| 22:37.17 | Dougie187 | online. |
| 22:37.26 | Dougie187 | or are those apps that the phone is missing? |
| 22:37.43 | benley | if any of you have actually got a retail phone, I'm curious to hear what OS build they're coming with |
| 22:38.16 | benley | (menu->settings->about phone->Build number) |
| 22:39.45 | languish | oh great, and my wife's account doesn't have the 3g data plan activated on it yet |
| 22:39.57 | languish | even though we ordered them at the same time, and received them together |
| 22:40.00 | languish | wtf t-mobile wtf |
| 22:40.05 | Dougie187 | give them a call |
| 22:40.12 | languish | yeah doing so |
| 22:40.28 | Dougie187 | hows the phone feeling so far though? |
| 22:40.32 | Dougie187 | pretty nice? |
| 22:41.21 | languish | wtf |
| 22:41.40 | languish | ok |
| 22:41.43 | languish | I see how this works |
| 22:42.44 | languish | I'm using a GAFYD account. I have to go in to the domain management, and add talk and calendar services, then use the sub-account I'm syncing with the phone, to log in to them first, THEN initialize the phone with that account |
| 22:43.01 | languish | GAFYD = google Apps For Your Domain |
| 22:43.34 | languish | I guess that makes sense, even if it's a pita |
| 22:43.51 | Dougie187 | i think it makes sense. |
| 22:43.56 | languish | yeah, it does |
| 22:43.58 | Dougie187 | all their apps are seperate. |
| 22:44.29 | languish | but the phone shouldn't deny you the ability to initialize if you don't have ALL apps enabled for your account |
| 22:45.02 | languish | what if the domain admin doesn't want to enable talk on the GAFYD |
| 22:45.05 | Dougie187 | well, i think its just because you need to have all the apps for the functionality to work.. But i would agree the error message could be a little more clear |
| 22:45.24 | *** join/#android romainguy__ (n=gfx@216.239.45.19) |
| 22:45.31 | languish | yeah, cryptic error messages I'm used to |
| 22:45.59 | Dougie187 | they should have said something like "The account you are trying to use has not been tethered to a Calendar or Talk account yet. Please do so online and try again" |
| 22:46.01 | languish | but I'm convinced this is not a 1.0 release. Google should have just called it a beta like everything else |
| 22:46.13 | Dougie187 | because that error message could be pertaining to the phone software as well |
| 22:46.17 | languish | yes |
| 22:46.20 | Dougie187 | and then you would think you got a bad phone |
| 22:46.36 | languish | my phone did come in questionable condition, lol |
| 22:46.41 | Dougie187 | lol |
| 22:46.43 | Dougie187 | how did it come? |
| 22:47.09 | languish | the protective plastic was skewed (not slide.. it was obviously placed crookedly) and some scratched on the inside of the back cover |
| 22:47.13 | iDialekt__ | Man weak |
| 22:47.17 | languish | slide/slid |
| 22:47.29 | Dougie187 | that sucks |
| 22:47.36 | Dougie187 | but hey, at least you got one? |
| 22:47.47 | iDialekt__ | You're scaring the hell outta me! |
| 22:48.15 | Dougie187 | do you like it so far though? |
| 22:48.59 | Dougie187 | and the market only has 13 apps in it? |
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| 22:59.51 | languish | I'll give more info as soon as we get my wife's initialized |
| 23:00.05 | languish | i'm signed in |
| 23:00.11 | languish | and google apps accounts work |
| 23:00.11 | plusminus_ | hey guys, what Buffersize is optimal for IO-Operations like loading images from the web/filesystem. I've seen a couple of official example where inda random 4k and 8k buffers are used :/ |
| 23:00.44 | languish | I have mixed feelings about the hardware, but it does feel good in my hand |
| 23:00.48 | *** join/#android mpardo (n=chatzill@c-24-11-194-193.hsd1.mi.comcast.net) |
| 23:01.00 | plusminus_ | jealous to languish |
| 23:01.23 | mpardo | question: can you send and receive data while a call is coming in? |
| 23:01.36 | umdk1d3 | mpardo: depends on the network |
| 23:01.38 | umdk1d3 | on 3g, yes |
| 23:01.50 | umdk1d3 | but edge, by design limitation, no |
| 23:01.56 | mpardo | hmm k |
| 23:02.03 | mpardo | thanks |
| 23:02.07 | umdk1d3 | *design limitation is in EDGE, regardless of phone |
| 23:02.30 | mpardo | tmob runs on 3g, edge and what else? |
| 23:02.39 | languish | pure sexuality |
| 23:02.44 | f00f- | avian carrier |
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| 23:03.36 | languish | call quality is clear. |
| 23:03.46 | mpardo | lol |
| 23:04.38 | *** join/#android igbored (n=igbored@203-217-88-20.dyn.iinet.net.au) |
| 23:04.53 | languish | italkiing to tmo |
| 23:04.56 | languish | err |
| 23:04.58 | languish | *taloking |
| 23:05.00 | languish | wtf |
| 23:05.54 | languish | can't chew gum and walk today |
| 23:09.39 | plusminus_ | romainguy are you out there, I have a question on the 'Improper call to JPEG Library#-Bug |
| 23:10.02 | languish | it's starting to look like my wife's sim card, which is still from our old voicestream account, may be the issue |
| 23:10.13 | languish | it's an old sim version or some shit |
| 23:10.17 | languish | but not confirmed yet |
| 23:10.43 | languish | she's not getting *any* signal, while I get perfect signal |
| 23:11.15 | jeld | I wonder if there is a built-in PDF viewer of some sort? |
| 23:11.23 | languish | on the G1? there is not. |
| 23:11.38 | languish | gmail can convert a pdf for viewing |
| 23:11.45 | languish | but it's *converted* |
| 23:11.55 | jeld | languish, yeah, I know, conversion is lousy though |
| 23:11.57 | languish | not the original pfd. There'll be a 3rd party app to view pdf's |
| 23:12.00 | benley | that's one of the rather stunning omissions :( |
| 23:12.15 | languish | well, it's obvious the g1 1,0 isn't a business device |
| 23:12.20 | languish | *1.0 |
| 23:12.22 | m-c- | umdk1d3, So T-Mobile will not be using their EDGE network? |
| 23:12.33 | languish | m-c-, they do use their edge network. |
| 23:12.44 | m-c- | Ah, misread |
| 23:12.45 | languish | m-c-, my wife's device is just having problems. Mine is not |
| 23:12.52 | languish | likely due to the age of her sim card |
| 23:12.56 | umdk1d3 | m-c-: mpardo was asking about using both data+voice at the same time |
| 23:13.01 | jeld | ah! there is FBreader for android :) |
| 23:13.12 | languish | we had GSM service with the two companies prior to t-mobile buying them out |
| 23:13.19 | languish | and still have their old SIM card |
| 23:13.27 | andyross | Strictly: sorta. The G1 is a 3G device intended to run on their new-fangled UMTS network, of which EDGE (and GPRS) is a still-supported, slower subprotocol. |
| 23:14.05 | languish | if my wife's G1 is busted, I hope we can swap at a tmo store |
| 23:14.12 | andyross | Add to that that UMTS is just a rebranding of existing W-CDMA hardware, and the fact that W-CDMA is a GSM follow-on that has nothing to do with classic CDMA and you have a true alphabet soup of confusion. |
| 23:14.35 | *** join/#android iDialekt___ (n=Mobile@166.134.2.70) |
| 23:14.45 | f00f- | andyross: what's your story? you do dev? |
| 23:14.51 | benley | andyross: how on earth did w-cdma manage to end up with the cdma name in it if it's completely unrelated? |
| 23:15.06 | m-c- | andyross, Thank you for your insight |
| 23:15.34 | jeld | http://www.helloandroid.com/node/659 |
| 23:15.45 | benley | and what about hsdpa vs umts? |
| 23:16.08 | andyross | Because it's a code division protocol, not timesliced like GSM/TDMA was. Originally CDMA referred to the kind of technology, not the protocol. Everything makes sense if you squint hard enough. And f00f-: I used to do wireless work professionally, but not any longer. I don't have anything to do at all with android other than having ordered a phone and downloaded the SDK |
| 23:16.42 | benley | stabs ConnectBot and throws it in the lake |
| 23:16.55 | ttuttle | == benley |
| 23:17.25 | benley | fires up adb and injects a dropbear ssh client |
| 23:17.34 | ttuttle | benley: can has? |
| 23:17.47 | f00f- | interestig |
| 23:17.52 | f00f- | dropbear ftw |
| 23:17.54 | f00f- | well |
| 23:18.03 | benley | ttuttle: if I get it working, sure |
| 23:18.07 | ttuttle | benley: cool |
| 23:18.19 | andyross | has to check wikipedia to make sure he has his story straight on HSDPA, which is the name for the data technology of the overall network that's called UMTS. It's kinda/sorta like the split between "ethernet" and "IP". Kinda. Doesn't mean much. |
| 23:18.37 | f00f- | UMTS is the umbrella for the spec i think |
| 23:18.43 | benley | andyross: so hsdpa:umts :: gprs:gsm ? |
| 23:18.57 | andyross | I think so, yes. |
| 23:19.08 | benley | ok, sensible enough |
| 23:20.40 | languish | ok wtf |
| 23:21.03 | languish | call dropped from tmo tech service, and now no 3g |
| 23:21.16 | jasta | go t-mobile! |
| 23:21.17 | languish | *sigh* |
| 23:21.30 | languish | she said she was going to "refresh" my wife's phone |
| 23:21.34 | languish | I think she refreshed mine |
| 23:21.39 | f00f- | t-mobile's network runs on windows, go figure |
| 23:21.39 | languish | and broke it :| |
| 23:21.44 | benley | yay tmo |
| 23:21.49 | languish | and she's not even calling me back |
| 23:23.08 | umdk1d3 | hell YEA my app looks sexy |
| 23:23.08 | umdk1d3 | lol |
| 23:23.19 | iDialekt___ | I'm over the g1 |
| 23:23.27 | iDialekt___ | Scaring me |
| 23:23.34 | ttuttle | iDialekt___: wtf? |
| 23:23.35 | umdk1d3 | rewrote entire thing since thursday |
| 23:23.46 | jasta | says something about the scope of your app :P |
| 23:23.54 | umdk1d3 | hey now :P |
| 23:23.59 | jasta | hehe |
| 23:24.27 | iDialekt___ | LOL |
| 23:24.35 | umdk1d3 | still have a few features to wrap up, but should have them done later tonight |
| 23:24.51 | iDialekt___ | Like maybe it's too early to grab one ??? |
| 23:25.22 | iDialekt___ | Umdk.. Irc app? |
| 23:28.15 | *** join/#android mpardo (n=chatzill@c-24-11-194-193.hsd1.mi.comcast.net) |
| 23:30.14 | languish | ok it's official. t-mobile is seriously fucking ip |
| 23:30.15 | languish | up |
| 23:30.49 | languish | we generally have 5 bars here. tonight, the signals all over the place |
| 23:31.38 | languish | went from 5 bars and 3g, to 4 bars, no 3g, to 1 bar, and 2 dropped calls along the way |
| 23:31.47 | iDialekt___ | Well I'm inspired |
| 23:32.53 | jasta | t-mobile's service is just plain bad ;) |
| 23:32.56 | jasta | all over the US |
| 23:33.28 | umdk1d3 | sigh dont be a h8r :P |
| 23:33.30 | languish | well i expected problems |
| 23:33.35 | languish | for at least 2 months |
| 23:33.42 | languish | that's usual with big tmo changes |
| 23:33.51 | jasta | umdk1d3: it's not speculation. i mean, it simply is an inferior network. |
| 23:33.52 | languish | but I didn't expect it 2 days before the launch |
| 23:33.54 | mpardo | apk files are compiled binaries right? |
| 23:33.57 | f00f- | technically it's not launched yet |
| 23:34.10 | languish | nah, launch day is gonna be a mess |
| 23:34.12 | jasta | mpardo: yes, in a sense. it's really just a zip file with stuff in it. |
| 23:34.17 | mpardo | blah |
| 23:34.21 | jasta | mpardo: compiled stuff, usually, but there's also images and crud |
| 23:34.44 | mpardo | k so if i send someone my apk to try out they can't scam my code |
| 23:35.00 | jasta | of course they could |
| 23:35.06 | jasta | they can just disassemble it like any other code |
| 23:35.17 | jasta | in this case, they'd need a dalvik disassembler (and javap/jad) |
| 23:35.27 | mpardo | hmmm |
| 23:35.27 | jasta | one doesnt exist yet, but will of course be produced trivially soon enough |
| 23:35.42 | jasta | mpardo: if you are concerned about this, you've been living with a false sense of security for a long time. |
| 23:35.42 | fadden | "dexdump -d" ? |
| 23:35.44 | mpardo | so there's no great way of protecting my code then right? |
| 23:35.51 | jasta | fadden: oh well, there you have it :) |
| 23:36.02 | fadden | ProGuard? |
| 23:36.06 | jasta | mpardo: there are obfuscation programs out there, and they have them for Java as well |
| 23:36.14 | f00f- | i'm not sure if proguard is necessary for android |
| 23:36.20 | f00f- | isn't it all dummied down to .dex files? |
| 23:36.22 | jasta | but i dont recommend them |
| 23:36.31 | jeld | jasta, disassembled code is obfuscated enough :) |
| 23:36.37 | fadden | ProGuard can do some optimizations as well as obfuscation. |
| 23:36.39 | f00f- | does .dex still have original symbols? |
| 23:36.44 | jasta | jeld: there are programs that obfuscate much, much further, sometimes at the cost of performance. |
| 23:36.55 | fadden | it does if you specify "-g" on the Java command line to include debug info. |
| 23:36.56 | f00f- | i wonder if those optimizations would work for/against dalvik |
| 23:37.11 | jasta | mpardo: i don't know why you think you need this, however. are you just some paranoid fool that thinks your code is interesting/unique? or is your code actually interesting/unique? |
| 23:37.27 | mpardo | lol it actually is |
| 23:37.46 | f00f- | heh |
| 23:37.46 | jasta | for example, proprietary industry secrets are often covered by patents and not obfuscation techniques. |
| 23:37.53 | f00f- | any IP is best stuffed behind a proprietary web service |
| 23:38.25 | mpardo | makes sense |
| 23:38.40 | jasta | bbl |
| 23:38.43 | mpardo | i'm just giving someone my apk to try out |
| 23:39.27 | mpardo | the receiving party will be purchasing the application |
| 23:39.49 | f00f- | put in some time bombs |
| 23:39.50 | ahaberlacho | Or not! |
| 23:39.51 | f00f- | or whatnot |
| 23:39.52 | ahaberlacho | :) |
| 23:40.15 | mpardo | i guess it's no big deal |
| 23:40.20 | f00f- | spend 10 minutes securing it, but that's it |
| 23:40.50 | f00f- | if we should be so lucky as to have our .apk's pirated! |
| 23:40.59 | *** join/#android unix_infidel (n=blue@unaffiliated/unixinfidel/x-8383745) |
| 23:41.47 | *** join/#android cbeust (n=cbeust@67.218.105.116) |
| 23:42.15 | *** join/#android iDialekt____ (n=Mobile@166.134.248.71) |
| 23:43.19 | *** join/#android cbeust_ (n=cbeust@67.218.105.116) |
| 23:45.08 | mpardo | heh... i could care less about pirating... the app will be free |
| 23:45.08 | languish | .apk phone home .apk phone home |
| 23:45.14 | languish | elllliot |
| 23:45.50 | languish | be more concerned about someone distro'ing a haxed/joke.non-working version of your app |
| 23:46.16 | mpardo | just to be malicious? |
| 23:46.28 | f00f- | yeah |
| 23:46.29 | f00f- | and to profit |
| 23:46.46 | fadden | The apps are signed. |
| 23:47.10 | fadden | They could, of course, upload it as fOOf rather than f00f and fool people. |
| 23:47.15 | *** join/#android cbeust (n=cbeust@67.218.105.116) |
| 23:48.01 | f00f- | :/ |
| 23:48.28 | *** join/#android Dralspire (n=dralspir@81-196.126-70.tampabay.res.rr.com) |
| 23:55.37 | languish | ah fuck |
| 23:55.50 | languish | pressing menu on my wife's phone (the one with no signal) gives an APN list |
| 23:57.13 | romainguy_ | languish: is that a bad thing? |
