| 00:00.37 | ttuttle | Hmm. |
| 00:01.02 | Disconnect | isn't finding it :( |
| 00:01.21 | romainguy__ | what are you looking for? |
| 00:01.28 | Disconnect | a basic drop-down text list |
| 00:01.37 | romainguy__ | it's called Spinner |
| 00:01.40 | Disconnect | ahhhhhh cool |
| 00:01.49 | Disconnect | thanks :) |
| 00:06.50 | *** join/#android tonyacunar (n=joseacun@c-76-16-208-53.hsd1.il.comcast.net) |
| 00:09.59 | ttuttle | romainguy__: Is there a list of all the system drawables and such somewhere? |
| 00:10.37 | ttuttle | romainguy__: Oh, it's just under android.R.*; |
| 00:17.33 | *** join/#android zmedico (n=zmedico@ip68-4-152-120.oc.oc.cox.net) |
| 00:25.15 | *** join/#android covalentbond_ (n=covalent@173-4-180-114.area2.spcsdns.net) |
| 00:29.10 | VickiWong | Wow, i have a button that 'should' be parsing in a reaosnable sized XML file from the net, counting certain tags etc and printing out values using System.out |
| 00:29.23 | VickiWong | I have a bunch of catch exceptions with output if anything goes wrong |
| 00:29.32 | VickiWong | but when clicking the button i get .... nothing |
| 00:29.51 | VickiWong | the app doesnt even freeze, it just does nothing |
| 00:30.56 | f00f- | did you connect it? |
| 00:31.23 | VickiWong | did i connect? |
| 00:31.57 | VickiWong | connect what |
| 00:32.16 | f00f- | myButton.setOnClickListener(..) |
| 00:32.57 | VickiWong | ahh yes it's a menu button, and i have it presenting a Toast as well before running my parseXML method |
| 00:33.01 | VickiWong | and the toast shows up fine |
| 00:33.20 | VickiWong | in onOptionsItemSelected |
| 00:34.20 | f00f- | add some debugging or show some code |
| 00:34.52 | f00f- | are you doing it in the toast's callback method? |
| 00:35.13 | f00f- | a toast might be destroyed without.... let me see |
| 00:35.47 | VickiWong | i have catchs for SAXParseException, SAXException and Throwable when trying the XML parsing |
| 00:35.49 | f00f- | no, i'm thinking about an alert |
| 00:36.08 | f00f- | how are you getting it from the network? |
| 00:36.10 | VickiWong | ill move the toast to after the method call, make sure the app is making it through the call |
| 00:37.21 | VickiWong | and here is my parseXML method http://pastebin.com/m2910f315 |
| 00:38.02 | VickiWong | im simply printing out some info from the xml file, to make sure i got everything working before i do anything meaningful with the data |
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| 00:38.35 | f00f- | umm |
| 00:38.41 | f00f- | does docBuilder.parse actually fetch the URL ? |
| 00:38.50 | f00f- | i thought it takes in a string of xml |
| 00:39.40 | VickiWong | i got the docbuilder code from a tut so it could be bad code |
| 00:39.45 | f00f- | i would use XmlPullParser though, if it's just rss |
| 00:39.51 | f00f- | but that's secondary |
| 00:39.53 | romainguy | hmm |
| 00:40.04 | romainguy | I don't remember if we redirect System.out.println |
| 00:40.18 | f00f- | i know .err is redirected |
| 00:40.23 | romainguy | yes |
| 00:40.28 | VickiWong | I tried displayign the toast afetr call parseXML and the toast displayed fine again |
| 00:40.44 | romainguy | I would replace the System.out.println by Log.d instead |
| 00:40.55 | romainguy | and where are you looking for the results you print? |
| 00:41.10 | VickiWong | but it seems to be flying through the method call, perhaps im not parsing the URL properly like you suggested |
| 00:41.17 | VickiWong | romainguy: Eclipse console output |
| 00:41.29 | romainguy | you need to look in the Logcat view |
| 00:41.35 | romainguy | the console output will not show anything |
| 00:42.11 | f00f- | i personally prefer opening up the terminal running 'adb logcat' -- way easier to copy/paste/debug |
| 00:42.18 | romainguy__ | works too |
| 00:42.22 | romainguy__ | but definitely not the Eclipse console |
| 00:42.28 | f00f- | the logcat view needs some work imo |
| 00:42.47 | romainguy__ | feel free to fix it when it's open source |
| 00:43.31 | VickiWong | romainguy: ahh ok, so ill replace system.out with Log.d and I now have the Logcat window added :) |
| 00:43.35 | f00f- | yeah :D |
| 00:44.42 | VickiWong | gotta add tags too :) |
| 00:48.58 | VickiWong | f00f-: parse does accept a URI public Document parse(String uri) |
| 00:50.57 | VickiWong | romainguy: I tried making the system outs Log.d, and i have the logcat window open but im seeing nothing : \ |
| 01:01.57 | VickiWong | the code seems so simple as well, and im not getting any errors or exceptions being thrown that i can see |
| 01:02.00 | VickiWong | http://pastebin.com/m7543ead6 |
| 01:04.21 | f00f- | put a log statement right after try { |
| 01:05.46 | f00f- | wtf |
| 01:05.51 | f00f- | why does CTRL-F12 stop working |
| 01:07.08 | f00f- | romainguy |
| 01:07.16 | f00f- | what should screenOrientation be set to in the manifest for my activities? |
| 01:07.27 | f00f- | i want it to be based on if the device is open or not |
| 01:07.29 | f00f- | so 'user' ? |
| 01:08.02 | VickiWong | f00f-: dammit needed to restart Eclipse after adding Logcat window |
| 01:08.22 | f00f- | shouldnt need to... |
| 01:09.01 | VickiWong | f00f-: im getting 'Parsing error uri null, InputSource needs either stream or read' from on of the catch statements |
| 01:09.08 | VickiWong | SAXParseException |
| 01:09.29 | VickiWong | well i restarted Eclipse and the logcat is running fine :) before it wasnt displaying anything |
| 01:10.28 | VickiWong | So i need to build an inputstream for the URL, and then parse that |
| 01:10.35 | plusminus_ | AndNav2-Status: Now routing on OSM-data *DANCE* |
| 01:11.36 | VickiWong | plusminus_: awesome, I have been following AndNav1/2, especially through your forum :) |
| 01:12.10 | f00f- | VickiWong: new URL("http://bleh").openStream() |
| 01:12.14 | f00f- | for a very inelegant solution |
| 01:12.49 | f00f- | plusminus_: what do you use to route on the backend? |
| 01:13.01 | plusminus_ | openrouteservice |
| 01:13.02 | plusminus_ | .org |
| 01:13.36 | plusminus_ | VickiWong: It'll take maybe about a week testing when I get my G1, so I hope to be up with an AndNav2-Beta in around 2 weeks from now :) |
| 01:13.51 | f00f- | are they scalable? |
| 01:13.58 | VickiWong | plusminus_: wish we had G1's over hear i oculd play with it on :D |
| 01:14.11 | VickiWong | here* |
| 01:14.19 | plusminus_ | I'm currently in the US so I can get one :-P |
| 01:14.28 | VickiWong | ahh, we have no such luck in hong kong |
| 01:15.01 | Disconnect | yah but you have brando |
| 01:15.08 | Disconnect | for whatever thats worth :) |
| 01:15.15 | VickiWong | hopefully when the source is released it'll get ported quick to a device i can actually get hold of |
| 01:15.28 | plusminus_ | lets hope os :) |
| 01:15.29 | *** join/#android winrefund (n=akosmin@cpe-66-108-164-44.nyc.res.rr.com) |
| 01:15.34 | winrefund | hello |
| 01:15.46 | VickiWong | Disconnect: lol, good site |
| 01:16.05 | Disconnect | doesn't he still have a storefront? |
| 01:16.31 | VickiWong | i believe so |
| 01:17.09 | VickiWong | not much of a brando fan |
| 01:17.53 | Disconnect | some is good, some is weird, lots is crap :) |
| 01:18.48 | VickiWong | plus it's expensive |
| 01:19.07 | Disconnect | depends. got my old c760 for $250 less than expansys so... |
| 01:19.17 | VickiWong | expensive for locals :) |
| 01:19.21 | Disconnect | heh |
| 01:19.28 | Disconnect | well must be nice for you.. :P |
| 01:19.35 | winrefund | I'm thinking that this kill switch functionality is not in the spirit of the free software community |
| 01:19.41 | VickiWong | well our wages reflect costs so not really :D |
| 01:19.57 | Disconnect | heh |
| 01:20.00 | VickiWong | winrefund: lol they are getting a lot of stick for it dont worry |
| 01:20.03 | Disconnect | thats frequently the problem |
| 01:20.25 | VickiWong | Disconnect: great for me though, when i bring back GBP i earn in uk :) |
| 01:20.28 | Disconnect | winrefund: when you can afford to start a wireless carrier, you can subsidize platforms that eat all your profits. until then..... |
| 01:20.28 | f00f- | who's to say they will liberally use it? |
| 01:20.33 | Disconnect | VickiWong: lol |
| 01:20.54 | Disconnect | gbp is a great thing to earn anywhere these days |
| 01:20.56 | VickiWong | f00f-: for many it's not the fear of it being used, just that it exists i think |
| 01:20.58 | winrefund | Disconnect, I don't understand your comment |
| 01:21.08 | f00f- | most consumers won't give a damn about it |
| 01:21.37 | winrefund | f00f-, the "if" doesn't matter. The problem is that the power is in the hands of a 3rd party rather than the user |
| 01:21.39 | Disconnect | winrefund: it exists to enforce the ToS (both marketplace and t-mob) - things like no voip and no trashing the network. |
| 01:22.01 | VickiWong | f00f-: when trying Document doc = docBuilder.parse(new URL("http://blah.com/my.xml").openStream()); i am gettign unknown socket errors : \ |
| 01:22.02 | f00f- | yeah, if this was a truly open *phone* then i would expect something different |
| 01:22.11 | f00f- | but keep in mind it's still an operator dominated and controlled market/phone |
| 01:22.13 | VickiWong | docketexception errors * |
| 01:22.36 | f00f- | i've no idea what that means |
| 01:22.53 | VickiWong | socketexception error* god it's 9:22am and i cant type at all :( |
| 01:23.01 | winrefund | Disconnect, the justification offered is not more important than the user's freedom |
| 01:23.18 | Disconnect | winrefund: then clearly you aren't interested in android. nice talking to you, have a good one somewhere else.. |
| 01:23.46 | winrefund | I am interested in free software |
| 01:23.52 | winrefund | and that's the problem |
| 01:23.52 | Disconnect | and you think this isn't. cya! |
| 01:24.03 | f00f- | hugs all the free software liberals |
| 01:24.27 | winrefund | Android is free software due to it's kernel and user space apps that are licensed under the APL but this kill switch seems to be at odds |
| 01:24.27 | VickiWong | winrefund: it is free software, it's the carrier/hardware people who ask for this stuff |
| 01:24.30 | *** join/#android covalentbond_ (n=covalent@173-4-180-114.area1.spcsdns.net) |
| 01:24.30 | winrefund | that's a problem |
| 01:24.43 | Disconnect | besides, its apache licensed. isn't that (effectively) similar to bsd? it allows commercial spinoffs. oops. you should be in #handhelds or #maemo instead. |
| 01:24.47 | winrefund | it's a contradiction |
| 01:24.57 | winrefund | oh no |
| 01:24.59 | f00f- | not really |
| 01:25.45 | winrefund | did you just say "commerical" to describe "non free"? |
| 01:25.45 | winrefund | please don't do that |
| 01:25.45 | f00f- | they're building on *top* of the platform which doesn't require them to open source their efforts |
| 01:26.07 | winrefund | f00f-, I'm pointing out that the kill switch is not in the spirit of free software |
| 01:26.26 | winrefund | if you don't see that, then you don't understand what free software tries to accomplish |
| 01:26.42 | Disconnect | ..you all realize he's just hear to troll, right? specializes in it in fact. one of these days he's gonna practice what he preaches by only subscribing to open-source power generation on fully open hardware (oops, no firmware, no bios, no FPGAs...) with fully open network equipment to a fully open internet. |
| 01:26.56 | f00f- | it may be true winrefund, but i don't think t-mobile or htc care about free software |
| 01:26.59 | f00f- | they're in it for the money |
| 01:26.59 | Disconnect | winrefund: you pointed it out repeatly. what you aren't hearing is nobody here cares. |
| 01:27.02 | f00f- | if OSS helps, that's great |
| 01:27.28 | f00f- | mmm this is some good stew |
| 01:27.29 | winrefund | ok, nobody cares |
| 01:27.31 | f00f- | although it's a bit dry |
| 01:27.31 | JoeAFK | in perspective, I think the carriers chances of wiretapping you are probably greater than their chances of killing an application that you're running :P |
| 01:27.32 | winrefund | that's one thing |
| 01:27.45 | Disconnect | it would be, quite literally, illegal for the officers of any of the aforementioned companies to do something because its right rather than because it benefits the company and stockholders. |
| 01:27.57 | f00f- | umm you people do realize that kill switch is only applicable to android market apps right? |
| 01:28.08 | winrefund | if you don't care about your freedom, that's your choice but don't start trying to dismiss me when I point out the contradiction |
| 01:28.41 | JoeAFK | I'm sure this isn't the only nor biggest contradiction to point out |
| 01:28.41 | xavd | winrefund: your freedom is to not use Android if you don't like it? |
| 01:28.45 | Disconnect | winrefund: you pointed it out this afternoon. you aren't buying a device, you aren't developing for a device, you aren't saying anything new, you aren't listening. that is the -classic- example of a troll. |
| 01:28.56 | winrefund | xavd, I'm talking about freedoms 0-3 |
| 01:29.09 | winrefund | not the millions of other freedoms that can be discussed |
| 01:29.15 | xavd | 0-3? |
| 01:29.19 | winrefund | yea |
| 01:29.30 | Disconnect | is gonna go back to coding. if you stop pissing in winrefund's mouth he'll eventually get bored and leave. |
| 01:29.40 | winrefund | read about them before attempting to add your $0.2 xavd |
| 01:29.44 | winrefund | sorry |
| 01:29.46 | winrefund | 0.02 |
| 01:30.23 | JoeAFK | trolls be rampant! |
| 01:30.24 | JoeAFK | runs away |
| 01:30.55 | f00f- | let's get along |
| 01:30.56 | winrefund | Disconnect, take your ignorant attitude and shove it buddy. All you needed to say was "I don't care" instead of trying to make your ridiculous point |
| 01:33.57 | gambler | <f00f-> umm you people do realize that kill switch is only applicable to android market apps right? |
| 01:34.10 | f00f- | what's going on gambler |
| 01:34.12 | gambler | does this mean it's possible for regular users to turn off the kill switch? |
| 01:34.25 | f00f- | gambler: download an .apk from my site directly |
| 01:34.28 | f00f- | how does a kill switch apply |
| 01:34.34 | f00f- | unless they track .apk signatures, etc. |
| 01:34.36 | f00f- | and have a blacklist |
| 01:34.49 | f00f- | kind of like a CRL in X.509 |
| 01:35.01 | f00f- | but lots of ways around that, too |
| 01:35.03 | gambler | right or OCSP ... just wondering how the kill switch works |
| 01:36.35 | JoeAFK | I tend to feel that maybe I'm the only one that sees the kill switch as a feature? |
| 01:36.47 | f00f- | joe it is a feature |
| 01:36.52 | winrefund | no it is not |
| 01:36.53 | f00f- | intended to protect consumers #1 |
| 01:36.56 | JoeAFK | Make someone with a reputation to lose do the tedious work for me... |
| 01:37.05 | winrefund | the user should have that power |
| 01:37.06 | f00f- | but as baggage, operators can control apps based on their internal agenda too :) |
| 01:37.07 | winrefund | not a 3rd party |
| 01:37.09 | f00f- | so it's a mixed bag of tricks :D |
| 01:37.19 | gambler | yeah I agree its a feature for unsophisticated consumers. |
| 01:37.20 | JoeAFK | The user has the power to kill tasks does he not? :) |
| 01:38.18 | winrefund | does the user have the power to kill the kill switch? |
| 01:38.18 | winrefund | no |
| 01:38.18 | JoeAFK | unsophisticated ... or people that dont have time to research or keep up with malicious Android app list |
| 01:38.18 | winrefund | so the user does not have control over the phone |
| 01:38.18 | f00f- | we do NOT know enough about it to make judgements at this point |
| 01:38.18 | f00f- | as jasta would say, you are an ignorant fool to judge the feature based on the limited amount of information available about it |
| 01:39.22 | gambler | part of my app is designed to make ppl at the telco rip their hair out, so thats my slight worry |
| 01:39.40 | JoeAFK | lol |
| 01:40.33 | Disconnect | is there a simple way to get the dialpad to pop up for numeric-field input in portrait mode? |
| 01:41.07 | JoeAFK | The Google Marketplace thingo is not carrier-specific though right? (besides the fact for now there's only 1 carrier that its locked to) |
| 01:41.08 | f00f- | presss green call button and hit dialer |
| 01:41.15 | Disconnect | i mean for application input |
| 01:41.35 | Disconnect | to feed a numeric edittext |
| 01:41.39 | f00f- | not sure if it has an intent that'll return |
| 01:42.46 | gdsx | Disconnect: 1.0 doesn't have a framework for adding input methods. It's in the pipeline |
| 01:44.06 | Disconnect | hmm. anyone know if a simple 0-9 . and backspace has been written yet? :) if not i'll have to do it (suck) but i'll publish it. too useful to keep :) |
| 01:44.37 | gdsx | anyway, /me is off |
| 01:45.30 | Disconnect | cya |
| 01:47.30 | Disconnect | anyone got the url for the java layout builder? eclipse is not agreeing with me today.. |
| 01:47.37 | f00f- | umm |
| 01:47.48 | Disconnect | bookmarked it but can't find it now :( |
| 01:47.48 | f00f- | the piece of shit drag and drop garbage? |
| 01:47.58 | xavd | http://droiddraw.org/ |
| 01:48.14 | xavd | what's the problem with eclipse? |
| 01:48.22 | Disconnect | wow seems like half of everyone is super-negative today. weird. |
| 01:48.35 | JoeAFK | angry their G1s havent come yet |
| 01:48.40 | f00f- | wasted lots of time with droiddraw |
| 01:48.41 | Disconnect | xavd: typing on the xml side results in it taking >2 gigs of ram and swapping the hell out of my mbp. |
| 01:48.44 | f00f- | better do the XML layhout yourself |
| 01:48.45 | f00f- | trust me |
| 01:48.55 | xavd | Disconnect: :( |
| 01:49.00 | f00f- | don't use the xml editor, just the plain text editor |
| 01:49.03 | xavd | how big is your XML? |
| 01:49.11 | Disconnect | under 30 lines. 5-6 items. |
| 01:49.14 | Disconnect | (so far) |
| 01:49.35 | xavd | have you done a lot of modification since you opened the editor, or does it happen right away? |
| 01:50.16 | Disconnect | goes either way. after errors or if i partially type a tag and wander off (eg to do source editing) and come back that seems to make it more likely. but overall its kind of "how can you not see this" more than it is "i found a bad use-case" :/ |
| 01:51.33 | xavd | what version/distrib of Eclipse? I'll try to repro on my mbp |
| 01:52.42 | Disconnect | Build id: 1.6.1.v20080919-1135 .. 3.4.1, lemme look @ the web page again and see which ver it is. (unless i'm missing it in the about box) |
| 01:52.58 | jasta | f00f-: as jasta would say? :) |
| 01:53.19 | f00f- | i know you used that line once :P |
| 01:53.23 | f00f- | i felt it was appropriate |
| 01:53.37 | jasta | well, sure. |
| 01:53.48 | xavd | Disconnect: what's th title of the about box? mine says Eclipse SDK cause I downloaded the SDK version. There are so many packages that I want to be sure I try with the same plugins on |
| 01:53.56 | Disconnect | ah eclipse platform |
| 01:53.57 | jasta | i am so f'ing excited for Wed :) |
| 01:54.08 | f00f- | yeah :D |
| 01:54.11 | Disconnect | jasta: i'm aiming for monday (i'm hoping for tomorrow but..) |
| 01:54.17 | Disconnect | latest tues it'll be here, so.. |
| 01:54.26 | f00f- | i called my t-mo rep, they said they would ship out on wednesday and get to me on friday |
| 01:54.29 | f00f- | let's see if it happens |
| 01:54.32 | Disconnect | cool |
| 01:56.36 | Disconnect | xavd: its not 100% reproducible yet (as in i have no map for you) but it is fairly frequent. basically working between the gui(ish) and xml views in layout causes it to get very upset. then it starts thrashing swap and if i get lucky i can save and quit before it gets too bad.. |
| 01:57.05 | xavd | ok |
| 01:57.53 | Disconnect | i know it seems more frequent with lots of typos/errors are entered and then fixed (maybe related to trying to render them? i flip back and forth fairly frequently, and half the objects are added from the toolbar and half by hand) but its -really- small layouts |
| 01:58.30 | Disconnect | most recently it was a simple nested linear with 4 textviews (basic "foo: bar" "baz: bam" row) |
| 01:58.39 | xavd | it shouldn't try to render until you switch back to the layout page |
| 01:58.50 | languish | I wonder if someone's going to start a service helping devs customize their UI to look more "androidish" and standardized (to give a consistent experience to users) |
| 01:58.51 | xavd | it may have to do with the content assist in the xml page |
| 01:59.21 | Disconnect | fwiw autocomplete has failed me completely on that page today. not sure why. it pops nothingness |
| 01:59.43 | xavd | hmm I'm thinking there is something there. |
| 01:59.47 | Disconnect | ....ok i lied. annoying. its back now :) |
| 01:59.55 | xavd | hmm |
| 02:00.20 | Disconnect | it was popping the # default namespace (etc) even after "android:layout_" (you can see it with "android:{ctrl-space}") |
| 02:00.21 | jasta | f00f-: i'm planning to get one Wed morning if all goes well |
| 02:00.28 | xavd | the content assist "framework" in Eclipse is not exactly great. Lots of hacks to make it work :( |
| 02:00.30 | jasta | if not, as i said earlier, i will burn that mother down |
| 02:00.34 | Disconnect | last tried it a couple restarts ago |
| 02:00.39 | f00f- | <3 |
| 02:00.43 | f00f- | do you have more than one store on your list? |
| 02:00.49 | f00f- | i'm sure you could drive to bellevue |
| 02:00.54 | jasta | well, not yet, but im gonna calla round to check availability |
| 02:00.55 | f00f- | there's a store right by the t-mo campus |
| 02:01.08 | f00f- | and this great sushi place there too |
| 02:01.18 | f00f- | (the only thing i know about bellevue) :D |
| 02:01.20 | Disconnect | awesome combo |
| 02:01.33 | Disconnect | esp if hte sushi place has exposed plugs for charging your new phone while eating sushi :) |
| 02:01.55 | languish | jasta, just make contact with store managers |
| 02:01.55 | languish | before wed |
| 02:02.00 | languish | pass 'em a $20 to hold a g1 for you |
| 02:02.14 | Disconnect | anyone know if tmob stores will have the stupid headset adaptors this week? i don't remember if tmob had any htc phones before this. (hmm. at&t did didn't they?) |
| 02:02.16 | Disconnect | heh |
| 02:02.32 | languish | well, a $20 might be too cheap |
| 02:02.52 | f00f- | dude, just wait it out |
| 02:03.02 | f00f- | give it a day or two |
| 02:03.13 | f00f- | i seriously doubt there'll be a rush |
| 02:03.27 | f00f- | perception is still that t-mobile sucks. |
| 02:03.43 | languish | I'm thinking a push, to have tmo give g1 pre- order owners a usbext adaptor free, is in order |
| 02:03.59 | languish | f00f-, perception is sometimes correct |
| 02:04.10 | Disconnect | xavd: when it blows up again, anything in particular you want me to do? (bearing in mind that my laptop will be swapping hard. and if i wait too long/do too much it'll start eating my disk with swapfiles :( ..) |
| 02:04.17 | languish | as long as dotson runs tmo usa, it always will |
| 02:04.27 | languish | +be |
| 02:04.51 | xavd | Disconnect: not really, I'm playing with it now and the content assist is having serious issues :( |
| 02:04.52 | f00f- | heh |
| 02:05.02 | Disconnect | fair enough |
| 02:05.20 | xavd | *sigh* |
| 02:05.40 | Disconnect | was planning to build views to help solidify the objects.. but it looks like it'll have to be written the other way round (yes, i know objects first is more correct anyway :) ..) |
| 02:05.51 | languish | <PROTECTED> |
| 02:06.10 | languish | seriously, most people I know, have no clue what android/htc or the G1 are |
| 02:06.53 | Disconnect | languish: but don't you know? a cell company with 10mil or so customers sold a whopping 1.5 million of them in 3 days! |
| 02:07.03 | Disconnect | knows that # is bullshit, don't bother, its a joke :) |
| 02:07.03 | languish | most news agencies are just treating it like a sideline note "oh yeah, this exists" along the lines of "you should just be aware of this name, in case your kids mention it" |
| 02:07.16 | f00f- | it's great press for them |
| 02:07.18 | Disconnect | i was surprised that the sis-in-law wanted one. she's not tmob tho |
| 02:07.19 | f00f- | it's a very smart move on their part |
| 02:07.32 | f00f- | but with no press release from t-mobile we can't really be sure |
| 02:07.48 | languish | yeah, someone did say tmo denied the numbers |
| 02:08.01 | languish | forgot where I was reading |
| 02:08.14 | languish | but they claimed it didn't even come close |
| 02:08.30 | languish | to actual sales that is. They may have ordered that many phones for the future |
| 02:08.38 | Disconnect | info week (iirc) debunked it finally. http://www.boygeniusreport.com/2008/10/16/t-mobile-g1-pre-order-numbers-way-too-astronomical/ has the quotes. |
| 02:09.21 | languish | anyone see the pics of boygenius at the tmo g1 launch party lastnight? |
| 02:09.33 | Disconnect | no |
| 02:09.34 | languish | dude walks around like he's a celeb in hiding |
| 02:09.38 | Disconnect | lol funny |
| 02:10.17 | gambler | does he do the vince mcmahon power walk? that rocks |
| 02:11.19 | f00f- | hah |
| 02:12.07 | languish | http://androidcommunity.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=900&stc=1&d=1224216598 |
| 02:12.08 | languish | there |
| 02:18.37 | Disconnect | yah i can't get the stupid activation email resent so i can't see any of that stuff |
| 02:18.43 | Disconnect | mailing admins doesn't help |
| 02:18.48 | Disconnect | pita |
| 02:19.49 | Disconnect | and random side note, i found exactly what i was looking for earlier :) http://www.droiddraw.org/widgetguide.html |
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| 02:36.46 | gdsx | wonders why it's so hard for some people to take a non-sucky photo of the G1 |
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| 02:44.39 | Dougie187 | man noones around anymore. |
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| 02:47.33 | HappyFunBall | I had 2 lunarlander samples on my emulator, and used "adb uninstall com.example.android.lunarlander" to get rid of one. The other's still there but I dont know its name. How can I list packages to pick one to remove? |
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| 02:48.30 | Disconnect | anyone know if you can tell the eclipse layout renderererer to rotate? |
| 02:48.48 | Dougie187 | i hate crank nicolson |
| 02:49.10 | Disconnect | oh. duh. nevermind. dropdown top-right. :) |
| 02:50.11 | Disconnect | but if anyone is hacking on it, it'd be nice if it produced clean line-broken code |
| 03:02.33 | f00f- | plusminus_: alive? |
| 03:02.38 | f00f- | have you played with OSM dat? |
| 03:02.42 | f00f- | *data |
| 03:02.44 | f00f- | in its raw format |
| 03:02.57 | f00f- | i'm investigating the effort required to implement a geocoder based on the data |
| 03:03.12 | f00f- | so far, i can't really find street addresses (numbers) in the data |
| 03:04.41 | umdk1d3 | i think i saw it in the schema somewhere, and maybe in some tiger-sourced data files |
| 03:05.01 | umdk1d3 | would have been in their XML dumps |
| 03:05.07 | umdk1d3 | theres a nice site that split them by state |
| 03:05.19 | f00f- | i have the dump open in vi |
| 03:07.47 | gdsx | f00f-: that's your problem. Try emacs 8) |
| 03:08.42 | f00f- | :P |
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| 03:23.27 | f00f- | i found some house numbers in the TIGER edges data |
| 03:24.54 | f00f- | or maybe not |
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| 03:40.34 | After_Math | Hello everyone, I am the moderator at ##G1, specifically for the new T-Mobile G1, Right now we are recruiting an additional mods, so come on in to ##G1 and let me know about yourself if you are interested thanks |
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| 05:00.10 | Kontuus | I didin't know g1 is 3g phone |
| 05:05.04 | languish | now you do? :) |
| 05:05.08 | languish | hahaha |
| 05:05.10 | languish | oh man |
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| 05:05.25 | languish | woot.com .. look at the comment under the image of the blender |
| 05:05.28 | languish | hahah |
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| 05:08.43 | wastrel | legos |
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| 05:13.07 | languish | DarkriftX |
| 05:13.14 | DarkriftX | sup |
| 05:13.32 | languish | check out the comment on the image at woot.com man |
| 05:13.34 | languish | lol |
| 05:14.22 | DarkriftX | LOL |
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| 05:23.46 | After_Math | is anyone in here using Eclipse to create Android apps? |
| 05:23.56 | f00f- | heh |
| 05:24.38 | After_Math | is that a yes or no :P |
| 05:25.56 | After_Math | can anyone help with this Plug-in com.android.ide.eclipse.adt was unable to load class com.android.ide.eclipse.adt.preferences.AndroidPreferencePage. |
| 05:26.46 | f00f- | what version of eclipse |
| 05:28.19 | After_Math | let me chec |
| 05:28.55 | After_Math | 3.2 |
| 05:31.50 | f00f- | yep |
| 05:31.51 | f00f- | that's too old |
| 05:32.22 | f00f- | you need AT LEAST 3.3 |
| 05:32.35 | f00f- | just grab 3.4 |
| 05:33.35 | After_Math | ah |
| 05:33.39 | After_Math | ok cool thanks |
| 05:34.35 | After_Math | f00f-, what one should I downlaod off the site to build Android Apps? |
| 05:34.50 | After_Math | I just sudo apt-get installed eclipse for the previuos versiob |
| 05:34.52 | After_Math | version |
| 05:35.24 | After_Math | just eclipse classic? |
| 05:37.01 | jasta | http://garfieldminusgarfield.net/ |
| 05:37.02 | jasta | hehe |
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| 05:52.22 | JoeBrain | moo |
| 05:54.10 | After_Math | clucks |
| 05:56.39 | JoeBrain | barks |
| 05:56.50 | JoeBrain | thinks that a seal bark is louder than a dog bark |
| 06:00.56 | DarkriftX | languish, ive been getting some users submitting apps on my forum, i think its from your idea |
| 06:01.36 | DarkriftX | pjv submitted one i had missed (androids fortune) and someone just submitted a tip calculator |
| 06:06.19 | languish | DarkriftX, awesome. |
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| 06:06.27 | JoeBrain | tip calculator was always an odd idea to me |
| 06:06.43 | JoeBrain | the big dorks would just do it manually & everyone else wouldn't want to look like a dork |
| 06:07.26 | coder1 | newb question, i compile hello android, no errors, but nothing happens. last console message is "launching new emulator" |
| 06:07.52 | DarkriftX | i think my server might have problems sending registration confirmations to yahoo emails, i have 3 ppl that registered and never confirmed and all 3 are yahoo.com emails... |
| 06:10.15 | languish | DarkriftX, set up a 24 hour resend through another mta |
| 06:10.46 | languish | or just use another mta period |
| 06:11.15 | languish | check some rbl's also, to see if your server's been blacklisted |
| 06:11.46 | gdsx | coder1: does the emulator come up? |
| 06:12.33 | coder1 | gdsx: no, when i run it, it just says that it's launching the emulator, but nothing else happens. |
| 06:12.34 | languish | T-mobile's G1 support site is up now |
| 06:13.03 | gdsx | coder1: can you run the emulator by itself? |
| 06:13.15 | languish | holy crap, a t-mobile *forum* for g |
| 06:13.16 | languish | 1 |
| 06:13.38 | coder1 | gdsx: when i execute emulator by itself, it pops up the shell and closes real quick |
| 06:14.31 | gdsx | coder1: err... shell? |
| 06:14.38 | gdsx | coder1: I guess, first things first. What OS? |
| 06:15.02 | coder1 | gdsx: my mac is getting a new logic board this week =/ .. on vista now |
| 06:15.17 | coder1 | so when i say i'm launching the emulator, i mean i'm clicking emulator.exe |
| 06:15.31 | gdsx | ok |
| 06:15.55 | gdsx | err... hmm... one sec |
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| 06:17.01 | gdsx | coder1: does Vista have cmd.exe or an equivalent? |
| 06:17.22 | coder1 | yeah i was just looking at that... it's saying i need to specify a valid -kernel file |
| 06:17.34 | coder1 | when i execute it from the command line |
| 06:18.32 | gdsx | hmm... sec |
| 06:20.37 | gdsx | coder1: I'm sort of guessing at this point. do you have android.jar in the SDK's root directory? |
| 06:20.50 | romainguy | android.jar doesn't matter to run the emulator |
| 06:20.59 | gdsx | defers to romainguy |
| 06:21.16 | coder1 | gdsx: yeah, i'm actually re-extracting the sdk now to rule out any corruption |
| 06:21.51 | coder1 | i think it's fixed, it will stay open now.. going to run the code again |
| 06:21.59 | romainguy | the emulator files are in tools/lib/images |
| 06:22.14 | gdsx | oh, hey :o) |
| 06:23.35 | coder1 | awesome , thanks for the time, it's working. something must have just been corrupt. |
| 06:23.53 | coder1 | the sanity check was finding out that emulator.exe should stay running even by itself. i appreciate it. |
| 06:24.17 | gdsx | np |
| 06:59.51 | jasta | hehe, do files get "corrupt" anymore? i mean, are there really broke network stacks, ethernet cards/drivers, and/or routers these days? :) |
| 06:59.57 | jasta | broken* |
| 07:03.31 | jasta | well, actually, other than the TCP window scaling bug found in some routers out there. *shakes fist* |
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| 07:11.55 | muthu_ | Fo' Realz |
| 07:17.09 | muthu_ | jasta: yo |
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| 08:08.32 | DarkriftX | anyone here who has a g1? |
| 08:09.24 | DarkriftX | i just read that you cannot install apps on it cept from the marketplace because there is no file browser on a factory install. anyone know a way around this? |
| 08:10.38 | Kontuus | wtf :o can't be |
| 08:11.33 | romainguy | ?? |
| 08:11.41 | romainguy | it has nothing to do with having a file browser or not |
| 08:11.58 | romainguy | you can install app via USB or via any web site |
| 08:13.18 | DarkriftX | ok |
| 08:13.35 | DarkriftX | im reading about it, and it says windows users are having problems with missing drivers for usb |
| 08:14.14 | romainguy | because the USB driver is not in the SDK yet |
| 08:15.28 | DarkriftX | do you have a g1? |
| 08:15.47 | romainguy | yes |
| 08:15.51 | romainguy | (I work on Android btw) |
| 08:16.21 | DarkriftX | im wondering if the link to download the apk has to be a direct link, or if it can be a dynamic type link |
| 08:16.28 | DarkriftX | dont know what they are called |
| 08:16.31 | romainguy | er/ |
| 08:16.34 | romainguy | ?? |
| 08:16.37 | romainguy | that makes no difference |
| 08:16.46 | DarkriftX | index.php?download=filename.apk for example |
| 08:16.47 | DarkriftX | ok |
| 08:16.48 | DarkriftX | good |
| 08:17.01 | DarkriftX | ill fix all the downloads on my site to get rid of .zip and tar.gz files |
| 08:17.06 | DarkriftX | so users can install them directly |
| 08:17.12 | DarkriftX | ty for the help :) |
| 08:17.36 | romainguy | the server must have the right mime type for .apk |
| 08:18.29 | DarkriftX | ahhh |
| 08:18.36 | DarkriftX | i can do that in htaccess, do yo know what mime type is required? |
| 08:18.43 | romainguy | I don't remember |
| 08:18.50 | romainguy | there were discussions about this on the mailing list though |
| 08:18.56 | romainguy | you can look in the archives |
| 08:19.31 | DarkriftX | nice, thx again |
| 08:21.31 | DarkriftX | application/vnd.android.package-archive look right? |
| 08:21.56 | romainguy | yes |
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| 08:30.33 | languish | totally "duh" question at this point, but is there a windows (SMB) network browser either preinstalled or as an app available in the app store already? |
| 08:31.11 | languish | (on the G1) |
| 08:34.07 | DarkriftX | i think i added the correct mime type, now im unzipping all of my archives and adding the .apk's as downloads. hopefully when im done someone will let me know in my forums if it works |
| 08:34.38 | ttuttle | languish: I do not believe so. |
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| 08:37.00 | languish | ttuttle holy carp what a kick in the pants |
| 08:37.03 | languish | :| |
| 08:38.26 | languish | so no streaming video/mp3's over the local network without running a streaming server |
| 08:38.32 | DarkriftX | could someone with a g1 test this download? just want to see if my mime type is correct: http://android-dls.com/android-downloads/apps/74-Android_File_Browser_2.0.apk.html |
| 09:10.58 | swetland | dark: Cannot download. The content being downloaded is ont supported on the phone. |
| 09:12.47 | romainguy | swetland: did you enable untrusted sources? |
| 09:12.53 | swetland | always! |
| 09:12.55 | romainguy | :) |
| 09:13.18 | swetland | it's "unknown sources" these days |
| 09:13.23 | romainguy | :) |
| 09:13.29 | swetland | untrusted, I think, is more accurate, but hey |
| 09:13.48 | romainguy | not necessarily :) |
| 09:13.55 | swetland | the mimetype seems right |
| 09:14.14 | swetland | application/octet-stream should work |
| 09:14.22 | swetland | maybe the .html suffix is annoying the download manager |
| 09:14.32 | DarkriftX | application/vnd.android.package-archive look right? is what i used |
| 09:14.44 | DarkriftX | let me make a direct link for you to try |
| 09:14.50 | DarkriftX | also my .htaccess might not have kicked in |
| 09:15.17 | swetland | wget claims application/octet-stream |
| 09:15.37 | DarkriftX | did you try in a browser? |
| 09:15.40 | swetland | I know text/plain for .apk files ends up working (even though it's not "right") |
| 09:15.56 | swetland | clicked on the link from gtalk and it launched the browser/downloader |
| 09:16.03 | DarkriftX | oh |
| 09:16.45 | swetland | in our infinite wisdom we don't allow copy from IM chatlogs (yet) so I can't easily get it into the browser directly |
| 09:16.55 | swetland | and it's a somewhat long url to type out ^^ |
| 09:17.34 | DarkriftX | http://android-dls.com/Android_File_Browser_2.0.apk |
| 09:17.41 | DarkriftX | and ill put a direct link on the front page in 1 minute |
| 09:17.50 | ttuttle | languish: So, the Right Way (TM) to stream media is to offer HTTP. |
| 09:18.41 | DarkriftX | swetland, http://android-dls.com/ in the first entry is a direct link to test in browser |
| 09:18.54 | DarkriftX | if they still dont work, ill try different mime type |
| 09:19.38 | DarkriftX | i guess the file could also be corrupted |
| 09:20.08 | ttuttle | swetland: hey. how's it going? |
| 09:24.27 | swetland | hm. downloads now (no error) but doesn't seem to want to install. strange |
| 09:24.36 | DarkriftX | damn |
| 09:26.12 | languish | swetland, do you have a file you know does install that you can send to DarkriftX to put up, for you to donwload and install from him? |
| 09:26.15 | languish | (lol) |
| 09:26.20 | DarkriftX | lol |
| 09:26.54 | swetland | just threw this up on my personal server (which serves 'em as text/plain but that works) and it doesn't want to install |
| 09:27.00 | swetland | might be something to do with this specific apk |
| 09:27.02 | DarkriftX | ok |
| 09:28.00 | swetland | W/PackageParser( 3263): /sdcard/download/Android_File_Browser_2-2.0.apk (at Binary XML file line #5): <activity> does not specify android:name |
| 09:28.04 | swetland | W/PackageInstaller( 3263): Parse error when parsing manifest. Discontinuing installation |
| 09:28.25 | swetland | files a bug about the lack of error dialog or user visible indicator |
| 09:29.27 | DarkriftX | lol |
| 09:30.04 | swetland | think your mimetype is fine but the apk is not |
| 09:31.13 | swetland | android-dls.com is pretty device-unfriendly on gprs/edge, btw |
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| 09:37.15 | DarkriftX | hrmmmm |
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| 09:43.15 | DarkriftX | i added a few more .apk files to the front page if anyone wants to test them with a g1 for me |
| 09:43.30 | DarkriftX | pjv, you have a g1? |
| 09:46.12 | pjv | no |
| 09:46.28 | languish | the saftey & regulations section of the G1 "getting started" guide is hysterical |
| 09:46.43 | pjv | will have to wait till Q1 2009 or beyond |
| 09:46.51 | DarkriftX | heh, me too |
| 09:46.56 | languish | explosive atmospheres and non-ionizing radiation |
| 09:47.25 | swetland | my favorite bit remains the box copy informing us that the t-mobile logo and the magenta color are trademarks of deutsch telecom |
| 09:47.26 | DarkriftX | so there is no way to test the apk download/install in the emulator? |
| 09:47.29 | swetland | W/PackageParser( 3416): /sdcard/download/zaTelnet_Light.apk (at Binary XML file line #5): <activity> does not specify android:name |
| 09:47.32 | swetland | W/PackageInstaller( 3416): Parse error when parsing manifest. Discontinuing installation |
| 09:47.40 | swetland | you can test installing with adb install foo.apk |
| 09:47.46 | pjv | I reckon an increasing number of people in this room has one by now (18th is getting close to 22nd)? |
| 09:48.15 | swetland | the 1.0r1 emulator build doesn't have the settings panel so you can't enabled unknown sources, so web download doesn't work there (known bug) |
| 09:48.36 | DarkriftX | yeah, just didnt know if htere was a work around lol |
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| 09:54.03 | DarkriftX | ok, seems like i have a lot of work tomorrow |
| 09:54.07 | DarkriftX | but i need sleep |
| 09:54.11 | DarkriftX | thx for the help guys |
| 09:58.11 | swetland | http://code.google.com/p/twisty/ is an example of something serving a working apk with a correct mimetype |
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| 12:34.03 | Disconnect | if i want to do a basic scrolling spreadsheet-style list (rows and columns), should I be dealing with tableview or listview? I like listview because I don't need to instantiate the whole mess immediately (afaict) but i'm not sure how best to accomplish the effectively-fixed-width layout inside it. |
| 12:34.26 | Disconnect | (fixed from row to row, not device-to-device or orientation to orientation.. i'm not doing a Bad Thing, honest :) ..) |
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| 13:24.05 | Disconnect | hmm. can sqlite's query() do joins? |
| 13:24.35 | commonsguy | rawQuery() probably can; not sure about query() |
| 13:24.47 | Disconnect | eg "select a.box_name, b.contents from a boxes, b packinglist where b.box_id = a.id" |
| 13:25.11 | Disconnect | cool |
| 13:25.26 | Dougie187 | i think it has limited joins. |
| 13:28.20 | *** join/#android kslater (n=kslater@206.193.247.78.nauticom.net) |
| 13:30.30 | Disconnect | i'll find out :) |
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| 13:51.43 | Disconnect | ok stupid eclipse question. my app crashed, but i'm in the debugger. how do i get a stack trace that has my app somewhere in it? |
| 13:55.26 | umdk1d3 | Disconnect: sometimes the exception stack trace gets dumped to logcat |
| 13:55.46 | umdk1d3 | youve found DDMS in eclipse? |
| 13:58.06 | Disconnect | i found the standard run->debug.. |
| 13:59.58 | umdk1d3 | so in eclipse there are different views, and the DDMS view gives a LOT of helpful debugging information |
| 14:00.11 | umdk1d3 | versus the Java view that youre in right now |
| 14:00.23 | MrSnowflake | Disconnect: Click Window->Open Perspective |
| 14:00.24 | MrSnowflake | then Other |
| 14:00.31 | umdk1d3 | perspectives, there we go :) |
| 14:00.36 | MrSnowflake | :) |
| 14:00.47 | MrSnowflake | the one you are looking after is DDMS (obviously) |
| 14:00.59 | Disconnect | cool |
| 14:01.21 | Disconnect | ooh thats pretty |
| 14:01.50 | MrSnowflake | yeah, very, as you can change emulator stuff, instead of using the commandline |
| 14:02.01 | umdk1d3 | then you can doubleclick the logcat tab to maximize it, and peek through there for exception stuff |
| 14:02.13 | umdk1d3 | you can also send stuff there from your app by doing Log.d() or Log.e() etc |
| 14:02.16 | MrSnowflake | Oh, there's a screen capture, never seen it before :) |
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| 14:04.24 | Disconnect | found my bug, too. for whatever reason it dislikes the date i'm passing. sigh. |
| 14:05.07 | JoeBrain | I had the same problem with apricots |
| 14:05.11 | JoeBrain | prolly not enough fibre |
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| 14:09.06 | MrSnowflake | I know integer math is adviced, but how about the Matrix class, it only uses floats, should we avoid using this class? |
| 14:09.11 | MrSnowflake | It's for 2D gfx |
| 14:09.18 | *** part/#android Dougie187 (n=doug@68.35.245.156) |
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| 14:21.43 | Disconnect | arm platform in general sucks a -lot- at floating point math.. |
| 14:22.12 | Disconnect | (well, sucks as in can't-do-it and the sw fp sucks, although not as much as it used to. 10.5*.9 no longer drags it to a screaming halt :) ..) |
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| 14:22.49 | snadge | the price you pay for low power consumption ;) |
| 14:25.11 | MrSnowflake | Yeah I know that, but as I probably need the Matrix class to draw rotated and skewed bitmaps, should I also use it for translation |
| 14:25.11 | MrSnowflake | ? |
| 14:31.38 | SanMehat | morning |
| 14:32.44 | cbeust | Hey San |
| 14:32.51 | *** topic/#android by SanMehat -> Four. |
| 14:32.58 | SanMehat | hey cedric |
| 14:33.00 | SanMehat | whats up man? |
| 14:33.17 | cbeust | My dog woke me up at 6a, great way to start a weekend :) |
| 14:33.32 | SanMehat | lol. |
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| 15:42.19 | ttuttle | SanMehat: Morning! |
| 15:42.31 | SanMehat | hey man |
| 15:42.43 | SanMehat | hey i'll brb, gonna get coffee |
| 15:42.46 | ttuttle | SanMehat: kk |
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| 16:03.26 | After_Math | can anyone guide me to where I can get good beginners tutorials on Android please? |
| 16:03.58 | languish | After_Math, programming, or just how to use tha G1? |
| 16:04.17 | *** join/#android commonsguy (n=chatzill@70.44.71.92.res-cmts.sm.ptd.net) |
| 16:04.50 | After_Math | languish, programming in Android. I am all set up with Eclipse and the ADT plugin which works nicely, I just need to learn how to program in Android now :) |
| 16:05.59 | languish | http://code.google.com/android and there's an intro guide in pdf, looking for it now |
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| 16:06.29 | After_Math | languish, cool thanks |
| 16:11.31 | languish | After_Math http://www.anddev.org/announcing_andbook_-_learning_android_from_scratch-t1473.html |
| 16:12.04 | languish | also http://www.anddev.org/viewforum.php?f=8 this whole forum |
| 16:12.05 | After_Math | awsome! thanks languish ! |
| 16:12.10 | languish | np |
| 16:12.21 | After_Math | :) |
| 16:18.05 | *** join/#android VickiWong (n=denvar@p5B056917.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 16:19.33 | VickiWong | anyone see an obvious issue with this basic attempt at parsing XML from a URL? http://pastebin.com/m7543ead6 |
| 16:19.54 | VickiWong | I am getting a SAXParseException error saing InputSource needs either stream or reader |
| 16:21.55 | DarkriftX | ahhhh.... time to figure out my apk file/mime issues |
| 16:23.35 | commonsguy | VickiWong: off the cuff, looks like its not fetching the URL |
| 16:24.47 | commonsguy | when I used DocumentBuilder, I elected to fetch the data myself and feed it in through an InputSource wrapped around a StringReader |
| 16:25.06 | commonsguy | there may be more efficient approaches, though -- this was just a book example |
| 16:25.44 | DarkriftX | anyone here have a g1 and a few minutes they could spare me? |
| 16:25.52 | VickiWong | fetch the data at runitime right? not storing it to file? |
| 16:26.32 | VickiWong | commonsguy: im using book exmples too :) the android specific examples i can find seem overly complex or dont work with the latest SDK :( |
| 16:26.43 | commonsguy | you picked the wrong book... ;-) |
| 16:26.54 | VickiWong | apparantly so :D |
| 16:27.18 | DarkriftX | someone needs to write a "Droids for Dummies" book |
| 16:27.43 | commonsguy | eh, I had to pick a different title -- "for Dummies" has nasty trademark protection |
| 16:27.53 | DarkriftX | but it does sound good lol |
| 16:28.09 | DarkriftX | do "Dummies for Droids" |
| 16:28.26 | VickiWong | there does seem to be little non-official documentation, especially when it comes to tut's or sample code, but hey it's early days |
| 16:29.01 | commonsguy | it's partly due to the looooooooong time we had M5 and partly that what's out there is scattered around |
| 16:30.10 | commonsguy | I've toyed with putting together some site to catalog it all, but haven't had time |
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| 16:33.42 | muthu_ | four? |
| 16:33.44 | muthu_ | five? |
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| 16:34.45 | VickiWong | ? |
| 16:35.52 | muthu_ | check the topic |
| 16:36.52 | VickiWong | ahh |
| 16:36.57 | VickiWong | 4 days to go? |
| 16:37.31 | muthu_ | ha |
| 16:38.34 | DarkriftX | 63 |
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| 16:42.14 | muthu_ | 36 |
| 16:42.48 | DarkriftX | damn, i wish i had a g1 right now |
| 16:53.00 | VickiWong | commonsguy: did you say you got the info about fetching the xml data and using it with inputsource on the net? |
| 16:53.15 | commonsguy | not exactly |
| 16:53.29 | commonsguy | it's from an example in my book |
| 16:53.38 | commonsguy | not sure where I figured it out originally |
| 16:53.57 | commonsguy | http://commonsware.com/Android/ -- choose Version 1.3 tab, click on Source Code to download a ZIP |
| 16:54.17 | commonsguy | the Internet/Weather project in there uses DocumentBuilder |
| 16:54.23 | VickiWong | oh wow you have written an andorid book? |
| 16:54.27 | VickiWong | android* |
| 16:54.31 | commonsguy | yup |
| 16:54.40 | VickiWong | dont suppose you do shipping to hong kong? :D |
| 16:55.52 | commonsguy | ebooks are available |
| 16:57.19 | VickiWong | cool |
| 16:57.47 | DarkriftX | lol, the for dummies convo starts to make sense now |
| 16:58.04 | VickiWong | DarkriftX: just what i was thinking :D |
| 16:58.31 | DarkriftX | wow.... "Droids for n00bies" |
| 16:58.32 | DarkriftX | lol |
| 16:58.41 | DarkriftX | start a for n00bies series |
| 16:59.03 | DarkriftX | untapped resource right there |
| 16:59.45 | commonsguy | sorry, was just wrapping up a call |
| 17:00.16 | commonsguy | yeah, i'm that Mark Murphy guy you see hanging out on the Android Google Groups |
| 17:00.31 | commonsguy | wrote the Busy Coder's Guide to Android Development |
| 17:00.50 | commonsguy | had totally forgotten about this IRC channel until yesterday |
| 17:00.55 | commonsguy | :-( |
| 17:00.56 | VickiWong | and kindly offered everyone here free copies... |
| 17:01.02 | commonsguy | urk |
| 17:01.12 | muthu_ | hey commonsguy |
| 17:01.19 | commonsguy | commonsguy's gotta eat! |
| 17:01.23 | VickiWong | lol |
| 17:01.33 | commonsguy | howdy muthu_ |
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| 17:01.40 | muthu_ | nice job mark |
| 17:01.48 | muthu_ | appreciate your postings in the forums |
| 17:01.56 | commonsguy | happy to help |
| 17:02.08 | muthu_ | wonderful, thx |
| 17:04.53 | After_Math | Once I have deployed the emulator for android to run a app, do I have to close it and rerun it everytime with a new different app? |
| 17:05.09 | muthu_ | no |
| 17:05.16 | muthu_ | just keep it running |
| 17:05.18 | After_Math | sweet thx |
| 17:12.29 | VickiWong | commonsguy: well i've implemented what i think I needed from your code, ended up with a 'unknown socket error -1' http://pastebin.com/m6499916d |
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| 17:28.48 | umdk1d3 | yay! /me jumps around room |
| 17:28.59 | muthu_ | hey umdk1d3 |
| 17:29.06 | muthu_ | whats up? |
| 17:29.07 | umdk1d3 | i just got a huge ugly magic query string tamed, after like 6 hours of fighting with it =D |
| 17:29.14 | muthu_ | heh |
| 17:29.29 | muthu_ | nice :) |
| 17:29.34 | umdk1d3 | magic is the /only/ way to describe it ^.^ |
| 17:29.43 | umdk1d3 | hugs google |
| 17:30.06 | umdk1d3 | someone there was thinking /way/ ahead |
| 17:30.35 | muthu_ | google is super |
| 17:30.47 | Dougie187 | muthu_: you find that article yet? |
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| 17:32.34 | VickiWong | commonsguy: well i've implemented what i think I needed from your code, ended up with a 'unknown socket error -1' http://pastebin.com/m6499916d |
| 17:33.19 | commonsguy | sounds like permissions -- do you have the INTERNET permission in your AndroidManifest.xml file? |
| 17:34.53 | VickiWong | commonsguy: nearly didnt find it then was like 'wth' but yeah it's there |
| 17:34.55 | VickiWong | <uses-permission android:name="android.permission.INTERNET" /> |
| 17:35.17 | commonsguy | could you pastebin your AndroidManifest? |
| 17:35.23 | VickiWong | sure thiing |
| 17:35.56 | jasta | yawn |
| 17:37.32 | VickiWong | http://pastebin.com/m497b6a2d |
| 17:37.37 | VickiWong | jasta: have coffee :) |
| 17:39.08 | jasta | t - 1h and coding :) |
| 17:39.08 | commonsguy | VickiWong: well, that looks fine...not sure what's going on...got a proxy server or anything that interferes with network access? |
| 17:39.49 | jasta | you wouldn't get socket error -1. check adb logcat. |
| 17:40.23 | jasta | socket error -1 is when android arbitrarily blocks you before it gets to the BSD socket layer |
| 17:40.52 | jasta | i dont see why they dont make a PermissionException that extends SocketException, but hey :) |
| 17:41.00 | VickiWong | jasta: that was the error in logcat : / |
| 17:41.10 | jasta | VickiWong: i mean search higher up when your package is being deployed. |
| 17:41.17 | VickiWong | ahh gotcha |
| 17:41.46 | jasta | it's possible your manifest didnt get updated into the APK (especially if you use the clunky eclipse plugin) |
| 17:42.05 | VickiWong | I swear Eclipse hates me |
| 17:42.15 | VickiWong | restarting Eclipse solved the issue, seems to be working fine |
| 17:42.26 | VickiWong | thats the 3rd random problem restarting eclipse solved |
| 17:42.45 | jasta | did you edit AndroidManifest.xml outside of Eclipse? That is what I do, and when I update it I need to hit F5 on the project folder to refresh it |
| 17:43.10 | jasta | also, before you try restarting Eclipse, I'd typically run Project -> Clean. |
| 17:43.15 | jasta | or just rm -rf bin from a shell. |
| 17:43.59 | VickiWong | jasta: I didnt restart eclipse to try and solve the issue :D but ill make sure to try these things everytime i get an unusual issue lol |
| 17:44.16 | VickiWong | commonsguy: thanks for the help :) your example code seems to be what i needed :) |
| 17:44.26 | commonsguy | enjoy! |
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| 18:10.47 | DarkriftX | anyone know what androids browser reports itself as? does it show up as chrome? |
| 18:11.07 | jasta | just run nc -l -p 5000 and point it at <your-ip>:5000 |
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| 18:12.38 | umdk1d3 | ive seen the following user agent in the past: |
| 18:12.39 | umdk1d3 | "Mozilla/5.0 (Linux; U; Android 1.0; en-us; dream) AppleWebKit/525.10+ (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/3.0.4 Mobile Safari/523.12.2" |
| 18:13.05 | DarkriftX | hrmmmm |
| 18:13.34 | jasta | hehe, the network error page is funny looking |
| 18:13.46 | DarkriftX | i wonder if its showing as chrome or safari in my analytics |
| 18:13.56 | umdk1d3 | google analytics? |
| 18:13.56 | jasta | why would that show as chrome? |
| 18:13.59 | DarkriftX | woopra |
| 18:14.08 | jasta | chrome isn't mentioned anywhere on it, so how silly would that be |
| 18:14.16 | DarkriftX | because i thought it was based on chrome |
| 18:14.21 | umdk1d3 | LOL no |
| 18:14.22 | jasta | well you thought wrong |
| 18:14.45 | umdk1d3 | idk how that rumor got started |
| 18:14.57 | DarkriftX | well, both are webkit based |
| 18:14.59 | umdk1d3 | ive seen it all over the place tho: "android now has chrome" or something |
| 18:15.08 | umdk1d3 | right, they both have the same base code |
| 18:15.28 | DarkriftX | so if you had to put it in one category or the other, chrome or safari? |
| 18:15.31 | commonsguy | Android's browser has been described as "Chrome Lite" by Google execs |
| 18:15.37 | commonsguy | that might be the source |
| 18:15.45 | umdk1d3 | sigh lol @ execs |
| 18:15.57 | jasta | yeah, execs don't know what the hell they are saying |
| 18:16.10 | jasta | Android and Chrome went off in two different directions from the same basis of WebKit |
| 18:16.16 | jasta | they share only that similarity |
| 18:16.30 | jasta | so, in that way, Android's browser is no more Chrome than Safari or Webkit is. |
| 18:16.40 | DarkriftX | im not talking about usability |
| 18:16.43 | jasta | after the fact some devs thought "huh, that might have been better to share code." :) |
| 18:16.46 | DarkriftX | im talking from a websites point of view |
| 18:16.53 | umdk1d3 | android might have borrowed from chrome tho |
| 18:17.01 | umdk1d3 | we first saw "gears" integration in 0.9 |
| 18:17.20 | jasta | umdk1d3: yeah, but i think it's a lot of copy/paste hackjobs. it would be totally stupid to call it Chrome at this point i think |
| 18:17.23 | umdk1d3 | they might have had gears support working first in chrome, and brought it over |
| 18:17.31 | jasta | DarkriftX: you mean from a web standards point of view? then they are all webkit. |
| 18:17.37 | romainguy | umdk1d3: not really |
| 18:17.44 | umdk1d3 | oh i agree, but they could have brought over the people who knew where to hook stuff into webkit |
| 18:18.13 | romainguy | it's mobile WebKit with Java frontend for Linux vs desktop WebKit for Windows |
| 18:18.30 | DarkriftX | my analytics has: ff2, ff3, ie6, ie7, chrome, safari, opera, ie8 and konq..... g1 users ARE being counted, and they are being placed into ONE of those groups. im trying to figure out which, i dont care about the technicalities |
| 18:18.54 | jasta | DarkriftX: why don't you just ask whomever runs your analytics instead of guessing randomly? |
| 18:19.09 | jasta | perhaps they are putting it into Chrome wrongly, and then you should slap them for it and ask that they create a WebKit group |
| 18:19.11 | DarkriftX | it started out as a very general question |
| 18:19.47 | DarkriftX | i was just wanting a quick opinion or educated guess |
| 18:20.05 | DarkriftX | i guess i know how to check |
| 18:20.11 | DarkriftX | compare numbers vs apple visitors |
| 18:20.18 | romainguy | DarkriftX: you can use the emulator to open a webpage that prints out the user agent |
| 18:20.29 | jasta | romainguy: we've already done that. |
| 18:20.30 | DarkriftX | ahhhh, see, there we go |
| 18:20.35 | DarkriftX | great idea |
| 18:20.39 | DarkriftX | my analytics are real time :) |
| 18:20.42 | jasta | DarkriftX: that's exactly what i told you to do |
| 18:20.55 | umdk1d3 | facepalm |
| 18:21.01 | DarkriftX | doesnt see that |
| 18:21.18 | jasta | [11:11] <jasta> just run nc -l -p 5000 and point it at <your-ip>:5000 |
| 18:21.28 | DarkriftX | oh |
| 18:21.55 | DarkriftX | sorry, i had no idea what you were saying |
| 18:21.59 | jasta | and then umdk1d3 pasted you the exact useragent the g1 is using |
| 18:22.02 | jasta | so... |
| 18:22.38 | umdk1d3 | i think the g1 useragent is different than the emulator |
| 18:22.41 | languish | AppleWebKit/525.10+ ? |
| 18:22.49 | jasta | umdk1d3: hardly, i checked. |
| 18:23.01 | romainguy | (Linux; U; Android 1.0; en-us; dream) |
| 18:23.03 | jasta | umdk1d3: the difference is the g1 says "dream" instead of "generic" |
| 18:23.09 | umdk1d3 | aha |
| 18:23.11 | DarkriftX | i c |
| 18:23.20 | jasta | thats why i didnt say anything, because what i got from the emu was the same |
| 18:23.21 | romainguy | that one should not change on the g1 |
| 18:24.09 | jasta | but i still think you should contact whoever does your analytics instead of this silly approach. if they are lumping it into Safari or Chrome then they are completely wrong. |
| 18:24.27 | DarkriftX | it will be fixed, they fix stuff like that fast |
| 18:24.27 | jasta | and your analytics will be forever useless to track mobile users |
| 18:24.36 | DarkriftX | chrome was showing as safari for the first 2 days |
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| 18:27.16 | DarkriftX | ok, emu is showing as safari 3 unknown platform |
| 18:28.58 | *** join/#android artur_ (n=artur@artekw.cerbero.pl) |
| 18:29.45 | jasta | and you should have them fix that |
| 18:30.03 | DarkriftX | yes |
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| 18:30.20 | DarkriftX | soon little androids will be all over, wouldnt be good to give safari all that credit |
| 18:30.44 | DarkriftX | jasonchen, do you have a g1? |
| 18:30.52 | DarkriftX | erm |
| 18:30.55 | DarkriftX | jasta* |
| 18:31.03 | jasta | i do not |
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| 18:35.15 | lemonadedrink | `y/j #blackberry |
| 18:35.29 | ttuttle | lemonadedrink: traitor! |
| 18:36.29 | DarkriftX | lol |
| 18:36.44 | jasta | *yargh*, ContentProvider work today |
| 18:36.49 | jasta | shoots himself instead |
| 18:37.14 | lemonadedrink | haha |
| 18:37.20 | lemonadedrink | it was empty. |
| 18:37.32 | jasta | well, this is freenode :) |
| 18:37.58 | lemonadedrink | oh yeah that would figure it :) |
| 18:39.26 | lemonadedrink | actually there's 1 guy in it :p |
| 18:39.33 | SanMehat | haha |
| 18:39.48 | jasta | probably just a freenode bot :) |
| 18:39.53 | ttuttle | lemonadedrink: Is he ChanServ? |
| 18:40.20 | lemonadedrink | ttuttle: no, LinuxMafia |
| 18:40.35 | DarkriftX | leave the poor guy alone, he probably joined hoping blackberry was open source and now he is in there with his broken dreams |
| 18:40.38 | ttuttle | lemonadedrink: oh |
| 18:40.56 | lemonadedrink | DarkriftX: :p |
| 18:42.07 | jasta | you mean like how all of us joined #android? |
| 18:42.12 | jasta | *burrrrnnn* |
| 18:42.26 | lemonadedrink | I already knew it was OS. :D |
| 18:42.33 | jasta | android isn't open source |
| 18:42.41 | lemonadedrink | I mean... |
| 18:42.45 | lemonadedrink | umm |
| 18:42.46 | jasta | right. that was the joke. |
| 18:44.19 | ttuttle | reflashes. |
| 18:44.35 | lemonadedrink | actually check out the bottom of http://www.android.com/timeline.html |
| 18:44.54 | jasta | hehe, that page looks neat now |
| 18:45.01 | ttuttle | Ooh, it is pretty. |
| 18:45.19 | jasta | the jet pack android is great |
| 18:45.31 | lemonadedrink | Quote: Q4 2008 Source code to be released. |
| 18:45.36 | jasta | lemonadedrink: but yes, we know this already |
| 18:45.41 | lemonadedrink | oh |
| 18:45.45 | jasta | i think you missed my comedy |
| 18:45.51 | lemonadedrink | yeah I totally did |
| 18:45.54 | lemonadedrink | I do that |
| 18:45.56 | jasta | we all thought the source was going to come "soon"...a year ago |
| 18:46.53 | jasta | that was the joke. |
| 18:47.09 | lemonadedrink | oh |
| 18:47.17 | jasta | you must be new around here :) |
| 18:47.20 | lemonadedrink | so if they go open source, does that mean that somebody could fork it? |
| 18:47.29 | lemonadedrink | not that I would wan to of course |
| 18:47.33 | lemonadedrink | want* |
| 18:47.41 | ttuttle | lemonadedrink: yep, you could. |
| 18:47.43 | jasta | it's a complex topic. think about it critically for a few hours. |
| 18:47.45 | jasta | quietly |
| 18:47.51 | lemonadedrink | ok |
| 18:48.29 | ttuttle | flashed. |
| 18:48.30 | DarkriftX | well thx for all the help guys, im off to go work on my site some more |
| 18:51.40 | commonsguy | anyone up for an ugly coding question? |
| 18:52.16 | commonsguy | i'm still on my quest for a unique device ID for each Android phone |
| 18:52.41 | commonsguy | everything I find either requires a permission or doesn't seem to work in the emulator |
| 18:53.55 | commonsguy | TelephonyManager#getDeviceId() requires READ_PHONE_STATE and might not work on non-phones |
| 18:54.01 | ttuttle | commonsguy: Generate a UUID? |
| 18:54.08 | commonsguy | yeah, but where to put it? |
| 18:54.14 | commonsguy | multiple apps might need it |
| 18:54.21 | commonsguy | and i don't know the apps in advance |
| 18:54.24 | ttuttle | commonsguy: Hrm. |
| 18:54.57 | commonsguy | there's no /etc or registry or other spot for morons like me to clutter up with UUIDs and such |
| 18:56.28 | commonsguy | tried a MAC address, but it too requires a permission and might not work on devices without WiFi |
| 18:57.12 | DarkriftX | try a combo, look for a, if not look for b etc |
| 18:57.38 | commonsguy | then I need *2* permissions |
| 18:57.51 | DarkriftX | create the uuid based on whichever is found first, and store a key (like a salt) on the end of it telling which it was based on |
| 18:57.52 | DarkriftX | oh... |
| 18:57.59 | pjv | commonsguy: try to use the gmail account as a unique id? |
| 18:58.05 | DarkriftX | oooh |
| 18:58.19 | DarkriftX | not a bad idea |
| 18:58.21 | commonsguy | pjv: that's a unique user value, not a unique device value, and raises privacy issues |
| 18:58.39 | commonsguy | and i probably need a permission for that too |
| 18:58.42 | DarkriftX | lol |
| 18:58.47 | commonsguy | least, i would hope so |
| 18:58.55 | muthu_ | how about android:sharedUserId? |
| 18:59.06 | pjv | well, the device tries to be user-oriented (linked to 1 user exactly) |
| 18:59.08 | commonsguy | muthu_: where is that? |
| 18:59.18 | pjv | I don't think it's possible what you are trying |
| 18:59.21 | muthu_ | check out security model |
| 18:59.36 | jasta | commonsguy: *ahem*, IMEI. |
| 18:59.38 | muthu_ | you can specify a shared user id in your manifest |
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| 18:59.55 | commonsguy | jasta: requires READ_PHONE_STATE, might not be there on non-phoens |
| 18:59.56 | pjv | jasta: IMEI? and what if android ever runs on something not a phone? |
| 19:00.11 | jasta | well, good point. |
| 19:00.26 | jasta | i currently use IMEI in my app, however. i'm not all that interested in fixing that assumption at the moment. |
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| 19:00.37 | commonsguy | muthu_: raises security issues -- don't want to force all apps using this library to run as one user |
| 19:00.40 | pjv | commonsguy: as I see it, the notion of a "device" is something burried in layers that have been abstracted away |
| 19:00.53 | pjv | you should orient towards a user |
| 19:01.15 | commonsguy | pjv: yeah -- prob is, i'm porting something originally on iPhone, which has a UUID or something available |
| 19:01.31 | commonsguy | and it's not my call -- it's my customer's |
| 19:01.33 | pjv | well, thats your problem, don't port |
| 19:01.33 | jasta | well, not necessarily. in my case i need to know the device because if the user gets a new device the internal storage would be wiped and they'd need to resync. |
| 19:01.39 | pjv | android works differently |
| 19:01.51 | jasta | but i suppose that won't work if the user master resets because a sync would also be necessary |
| 19:01.56 | jasta | damn, i hadn't really thought about this well enough |
| 19:02.11 | commonsguy | jasta: sry if i just caused you more work |
| 19:02.11 | jasta | oh wait, no, that would work just fine implicitly. nevermind :) |
| 19:02.44 | jasta | i forgot that SyncML already gaurds against this. it couples a unique id with an anchor point, and if the client can't produce the right pair it syncs from scratch |
| 19:06.13 | VickiWong | someone should port itunes, just to poff iphone users |
| 19:09.09 | *** join/#android ArteK (n=ArteK@artekw.cerbero.pl) |
| 19:11.27 | VickiWong | is there an easier way to store a value (in this case last date a user ran my app) rather then storing the date in a file on it's own? |
| 19:12.00 | commonsguy | VickiWong: SharedPreferences? |
| 19:13.29 | VickiWong | commonsguy: thanks that looks good |
| 19:13.46 | VickiWong | the naming 'preference' is what put me off |
| 19:15.45 | *** join/#android muthu (n=muthu@59.92.0.176) |
| 19:16.17 | jasta | VickiWong: it's just a persistent storage mechanism shared by a package. |
| 19:16.22 | jasta | key/value pairs |
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| 19:17.17 | VickiWong | jasta: I see, makes sense now, but i do not like that naming :D |
| 19:19.09 | jasta | neither do it, but... |
| 19:20.50 | VickiWong | if it works it works |
| 19:20.57 | VickiWong | ;) |
| 19:22.36 | jasta | speaking of, at some point i feel like i must rewrite my sync engine on the android side :) |
| 19:22.39 | jasta | it's such a horrible mess. |
| 19:26.17 | VickiWong | things are going to get so interesting once that code gets released |
| 19:26.47 | DarkriftX | i just wish the emulator was more like the g1 |
| 19:26.51 | DarkriftX | so i could test stuff better |
| 19:26.52 | jasta | once what code? android's code? |
| 19:27.01 | VickiWong | jasta: yah |
| 19:27.08 | jasta | well, we'll see. |
| 19:27.15 | romainguy | DarkriftX: it's pretty close |
| 19:27.43 | DarkriftX | well, i need to use it to test apk installs over the internet and it wont do that :( |
| 19:27.56 | romainguy | it's because you don't have the settings app |
| 19:28.07 | VickiWong | I think the emulator is pretty darned good, sure it's no G1 but for an emulator it's good |
| 19:28.16 | DarkriftX | its good, but just doesnt do what i need |
| 19:28.22 | jasta | romainguy: i assume that once the phone launches the emulator is going to get a big update to include all the apks right? |
| 19:28.34 | romainguy | I don't think so |
| 19:28.39 | romainguy | the emulator is not the G1 |
| 19:28.52 | romainguy | there's no reason to include all the apks |
| 19:29.03 | romainguy | (Settings is different though :) |
| 19:29.16 | Dougie187 | so would the emulator have settings then? |
| 19:29.18 | jasta | except that it makes integration applications possible to develop |
| 19:29.36 | jasta | for example if you want to test how your app can send e-mail or whatever. |
| 19:29.52 | jasta | i guess you could just extract the apks yourself and load them, but ugh, silly. |
| 19:29.53 | romainguy | hey, if the apps are not in the emulator you'll have the source code |
| 19:29.57 | romainguy | compile them and install them |
| 19:30.13 | jasta | romainguy: uhh, it was my understanding that we would not get source code to google branded apps |
| 19:30.21 | romainguy | you won't |
| 19:30.31 | romainguy | but e-mail is not a google branded app |
| 19:30.48 | jasta | i see, so the decision has been made officially that e-mail will be open sourced? i have been asking about that for a while now |
| 19:31.04 | romainguy | you'll see when the source is dropped :) |
| 19:31.09 | jasta | *rolls eyes* |
| 19:31.37 | VickiWong | jasta: itsa secret... |
| 19:31.39 | jasta | secrets right up to the bitter end :) |
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| 19:38.29 | Dougie187 | jasta: would you expect anything more? |
| 19:38.36 | jasta | no, not at all |
| 19:39.30 | Dougie187 | flash 10 is awesome btw. |
| 19:39.30 | jasta | it's just silly to me that all of the Google folks have this smug attitude about all the things they know that we don't. as if to say "how absurd that you don't know the secrets i won't tell you." |
| 19:39.36 | Dougie187 | not sure if you have played with it |
| 19:39.53 | Dougie187 | jasta: true. i know what you mean. |
| 19:39.57 | jasta | what's awesome about it? the only thing i'd like to see FLASH do is get more efficient. |
| 19:40.17 | Dougie187 | i like how it is not always on top now |
| 19:40.29 | jasta | oh yes, but that was a Linux only bug for a LONG time |
| 19:40.30 | Dougie187 | so when you go to sites like bestbuy and cbs you can actually use the menus on their sites. |
| 19:40.35 | Dougie187 | yeah |
| 19:40.38 | jasta | but that certainly is a great fix (which should have come years ago) |
| 19:40.39 | Dougie187 | and it was a pain in the ass |
| 19:41.23 | jasta | bbl, lunch |
| 19:41.42 | Dougie187 | k |
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| 19:47.00 | yang | Is the HTC G1 only limited to T-mobile provider in the usa or can it also be used on European providers? |
| 19:47.09 | Dougie187 | T-mobile |
| 19:47.21 | yang | ok |
| 19:47.23 | Dougie187 | there is an unlocked version, but its going ot be 400 |
| 19:47.29 | Dougie187 | and it has limited frequency ranges |
| 19:47.31 | yang | 400 meaning what? |
| 19:47.36 | Dougie187 | $400 USD |
| 19:48.32 | VickiWong | im hanging on for new device news |
| 19:48.49 | yang | well in the worst case I will be able to upload and play with the software over USB/Bluetooth ? If it won't work on my carrier? |
| 19:48.54 | VickiWong | we need some love over here |
| 19:49.24 | VickiWong | all we have is a cheaply put together development kit made by a chinese company :( and it costs a lot of money |
| 19:49.33 | Dougie187 | Its going to be released in Europe later this year. |
| 19:49.45 | Dougie187 | maybe like a month of so. i don't remember the time frame |
| 19:50.11 | yang | ok, i am gonna wait for the european version then |
| 19:50.12 | VickiWong | Dougie187: was it November? or Q1 09 |
| 19:50.26 | Dougie187 | lemme check |
| 19:50.43 | VickiWong | early novemeber |
| 19:50.55 | Dougie187 | Q1 09 |
| 19:50.56 | Dougie187 | http://www.engadget.com/2008/09/23/t-mobiles-g1-gets-release-date-and-pricing/ |
| 19:50.58 | VickiWong | dunno why i was htinking q1 09 |
| 19:51.02 | Dougie187 | some in November |
| 19:51.10 | Dougie187 | UK is November |
| 19:51.16 | Dougie187 | everyone else is Q1 09 |
| 19:51.24 | VickiWong | lol i thoguht it was Q1 09 :D |
| 19:51.36 | Dougie187 | you in UK? |
| 19:51.44 | yang | I home that our carrier might put it for the special price offer |
| 19:51.50 | VickiWong | me? Im in hong kong |
| 19:51.51 | yang | s/home/hope/ |
| 19:52.13 | Dougie187 | Hong Kong isn't even set up yet. |
| 19:52.23 | VickiWong | Dougie187: tell me about it :D |
| 19:52.25 | Dougie187 | Q1 09 is just for more places in eurpoe. |
| 19:52.29 | Dougie187 | Europe. |
| 19:52.45 | VickiWong | no idea what we will get or when we will get it |
| 19:52.53 | yang | how big is actually the device - measures |
| 19:53.25 | yang | from the pics its quite a piece |
| 19:53.47 | Dougie187 | Are the dimensions in that last link i sent? |
| 19:53.50 | VickiWong | # Dimensions: (LxWxT) 117.7 mm x 55.7 mm x 17.1 mm # Weight: 158 grams |
| 19:53.52 | romainguy | it's about the same size as an iPhone 1st gen |
| 19:53.54 | romainguy | a bit thicker |
| 19:54.05 | Dougie187 | http://www.htc.com/www/product/g1/specification.html |
| 19:55.12 | yang | ok |
| 19:55.31 | jasta | romainguy: and a smaller screen i think |
| 19:55.35 | jasta | sam resolution, higher dpi |
| 19:55.39 | romainguy | yep |
| 19:55.45 | yang | Another question, are there any other manufacturers also getting ready to produce an android phone in the near future? |
| 19:55.47 | romainguy | because the device is narrower |
| 19:55.57 | Dougie187 | yang: check out the open handset alliance. |
| 19:56.23 | yang | ok |
| 19:56.25 | yang | thanks |
| 19:56.37 | Dougie187 | Motorola, LG, HTC, and Samsung |
| 19:56.45 | Dougie187 | Nokia is working on something but who knows. |
| 19:56.59 | VickiWong | China Mobile |
| 19:57.09 | Dougie187 | is China Mobile hardware? |
| 19:57.11 | Dougie187 | or carrier? |
| 19:57.28 | yang | Dougie187: so, the unlocked version should be able to work outside T-mobile? |
| 19:57.37 | Dougie187 | Check the frequency ranges. |
| 19:57.39 | jasta | yang: check the frequencies it supports |
| 19:57.50 | VickiWong | carrier |
| 19:57.53 | yang | Our provider is on 900&1800 |
| 19:58.13 | Dougie187 | <PROTECTED> |
| 19:58.26 | yang | oh |
| 19:58.32 | yang | it supports them all then:) |
| 19:58.58 | Dougie187 | you have to buy it through tmobile. |
| 19:59.06 | Dougie187 | it's basically just contract free |
| 19:59.16 | Dougie187 | and then after 90 days they won't care if you unlock it |
| 19:59.28 | Dougie187 | though there isn't much stopping you from doing it before then |
| 19:59.46 | jasta | chinese food in the US is so freaking disgusting |
| 19:59.46 | yang | what i dislike on HTCs are silly small knob keyboards :) it has a touchscreen so who needs buttons |
| 19:59.58 | jasta | eating some leftovers (my gf wanted it last night) and i can barely choke it down |
| 20:00.06 | jasta | but when i was in Ireland chinese food was so f'n good |
| 20:00.14 | VickiWong | jasta: chinese food anywhere outside of china tends to be bad, and usually completely different to what we eat here |
| 20:00.16 | Dougie187 | yang: some people don't like touch screen keyboards, like <--- this guy. |
| 20:00.23 | yang | Dougie187: we don't have t-mobile just vodafone |
| 20:00.41 | jasta | VickiWong: i dunno, when i was in ireland there were lots of chinese restuarants (as popular if not more than any other type of eatery) and they were all stellar |
| 20:01.01 | yang | Dougie187: but i can get one off EBAY eventually |
| 20:01.13 | jasta | VickiWong: the main difference was that the quality of the meat was way higher. |
| 20:01.31 | Dougie187 | well here a lot of it is like cat and dog. |
| 20:01.31 | Dougie187 | lol |
| 20:01.36 | VickiWong | jasta: yeah you can have good quality, but still probably 'wester' chinese food |
| 20:01.37 | jasta | but that was a theme all over the country. Ireland had great tasting meats |
| 20:01.42 | VickiWong | western* |
| 20:01.58 | VickiWong | for example no one out here eats sweet&sour, chow mein things like that |
| 20:02.07 | Dougie187 | there are no good chinese food restruants that I have been to in this town. |
| 20:02.19 | VickiWong | a lot of 'western' chinese food i had no idea what it was :D |
| 20:02.19 | Dougie187 | VickiWong: what do you guys eat? |
| 20:02.25 | jasta | VickiWong: what's your favorite dish then, for instance? |
| 20:02.29 | yang | VickiWong: you cannot get proper spicy curry in our chinesse restaurants |
| 20:02.43 | VickiWong | jasta: wow hard, probably cheese stuffed lobster |
| 20:03.01 | VickiWong | yang: chinese dont eat very spicy, thailand do |
| 20:03.14 | jasta | i have actually heard that Thai food in certain parts of the US is actually better than in Thailand |
| 20:03.28 | jasta | i was talking to some chef about this once who had been to thailand many times |
| 20:03.36 | VickiWong | yang: in fact we dont eat much curry at all |
| 20:03.54 | VickiWong | we eat lots of sea food especially |
| 20:03.54 | yang | jasta: most of the stuff has to be imported from asia, this is sometimes hard for the cooks here |
| 20:04.13 | VickiWong | we dun really eat much fried rice |
| 20:04.30 | yang | VickiWong: Yeah I know that curry is mostly an indian and thai spice, but we don't have such restaurants , only chinesse |
| 20:04.45 | jasta | well, this chef i was speaking to specifically mentioned the west coast of the US as having top notch thai food. possibly because it is easier to import ingredients from asian countries. |
| 20:04.56 | VickiWong | Come to Hong Kong and try the food, thats best way to learn why cantonese food is famous :) |
| 20:05.40 | jasta | actually, i don't think i'll be doing that. |
| 20:05.45 | VickiWong | just like western food tastes like crap over here :D but in the west it tastes great |
| 20:05.51 | jasta | i have a serious political aversion to China which id ont think we should get into right now :) |
| 20:06.05 | Dougie187 | lol who doesn't? |
| 20:06.12 | VickiWong | jasta: herehere, thats why i said Hong Kong :) |
| 20:06.15 | yang | you guys must of got a FREE delivery of G1 testing phones *giggles* |
| 20:06.18 | VickiWong | we are currently independant |
| 20:06.22 | jasta | really? |
| 20:06.35 | VickiWong | until 2049 we have not been handed over to china |
| 20:06.36 | jasta | is that like how Taiwan is independent? :) |
| 20:06.49 | VickiWong | no chinese laws/govenrment rulings count here |
| 20:07.05 | VickiWong | and we have freedom of speech and things like that, China hates us for it |
| 20:07.21 | VickiWong | and freedom of press, which we abuse daily! :D |
| 20:07.41 | Dougie187 | do you guys have an equivalent of star magazine? |
| 20:07.42 | jasta | interesting. i did not know Hong Kong was that different. |
| 20:08.08 | VickiWong | jasta: a lot of people dont seem to understand it |
| 20:08.11 | jasta | what did you mean by 2049? is there a current plan to expire your sovereignty? |
| 20:08.17 | Adamant | yup |
| 20:08.51 | VickiWong | jasta: our handover agreement between UK + China gave us 50 years of running ourselves first |
| 20:08.55 | Adamant | basically HK'er have to hope China is democratic enough by then |
| 20:09.18 | VickiWong | Adamant: i dont think we will be handed over either, our government is working like crazy to make sure it doesnt happen |
| 20:09.33 | Adamant | VickiWong: good luck, but it probably will |
| 20:09.38 | jasta | that you would even have such a condition tells me you're not sovereign. maybe i'm just being narrow. |
| 20:09.38 | VickiWong | thats the main reason we asked UK to include this 50 year period, to give us time to make our seperation permenant |
| 20:10.12 | Adamant | jasta: they're not perfectly sovereign, but China has no intention of killing the goose that laid the golden egg |
| 20:10.26 | languish | China will end up going to war with the west before then. Which means korea, japan, hong kong..etc will be up shits creek |
| 20:10.28 | VickiWong | jasta: oh trust me China has no say down here :) and they hate us for it |
| 20:10.37 | jasta | VickiWong: what does the UK have to do with this by the way? |
| 20:10.49 | Adamant | HK is huge for their economy, it's a very convenient port to the West and the rest of Asia |
| 20:11.08 | jasta | so its foreign pressure keeping it this way? |
| 20:11.19 | Adamant | jasta: no |
| 20:11.37 | Adamant | jasta: HK is one of the main places where foreign capital comes into China |
| 20:11.39 | VickiWong | jasta: umm Hong Kong was under UK's rule until 199 |
| 20:11.48 | Adamant | it's a major banking hub for asia |
| 20:12.03 | languish | Adamant, that's not why china hasn't taken it over |
| 20:12.04 | VickiWong | 1997* |
| 20:12.19 | languish | Foreign pressure is exactly correct |
| 20:12.34 | Adamant | languish: it's one of the reasons. Foreigners want some seperation between themselves and the Chinese gov |
| 20:12.36 | VickiWong | languish: no, it is in the terms of the handover that they do not take over until 2049 |
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| 20:13.02 | VickiWong | they havent taken over HK because they cannot as per the terms |
| 20:13.05 | jasta | VickiWong: well the only reaosn China would care about the agreement is because they dont want to anger their powerful foreign friends :) |
| 20:13.20 | languish | China only respects the terms of the handover because they currently value foreign investment and are trying to join the int'l community. |
| 20:13.21 | jasta | thats how i understood the situation with Taiwan as well |
| 20:13.23 | Adamant | jasta: breaking treaties is bad for any country |
| 20:13.40 | Adamant | Taiwan they have no control over |
| 20:13.48 | Adamant | it's de facto independent |
| 20:13.51 | jasta | Adamant: yeah, for fear of retaliation from powerful ones. when you become powerful enough, and your society is sufficiently militant, you can ignore them. |
| 20:13.57 | jasta | as how world wars start |
| 20:13.57 | VickiWong | Taiwan + Hong Kong are very different things |
| 20:14.03 | Adamant | jasta: not really |
| 20:14.20 | languish | As soon as China's faux middle class buildout fails economically, China will have to go to war to keep its internal forces from ripping it apart. When that happens, all bets are off. |
| 20:14.45 | Adamant | languish: I'm not sure it's going to fail. |
| 20:14.49 | VickiWong | languish: China...failing economically? haha |
| 20:14.58 | VickiWong | I hate China but common |
| 20:15.06 | Adamant | well, it's going to have a depression at some point |
| 20:15.15 | languish | Adamant, it'll fail, the question is will Europe, the US and Russia bail China out together. |
| 20:15.15 | Adamant | might be in this current round, or later |
| 20:15.31 | Adamant | Russia is in no shape to bail out anyone |
| 20:15.36 | jasta | China scares the crap out of me, i will admit :) |
| 20:15.39 | VickiWong | Adamant: true but i dont see economic failure beocming an issue for them, certainly not in our liftime |
| 20:15.40 | Adamant | the US isn't in good shape to either |
| 20:15.47 | languish | It'll be in another 25 years.. which is basically when the effects of China's current buildout are expected to fail |
| 20:16.08 | Adamant | languish: again, for what reasons will it fail? |
| 20:16.24 | VickiWong | languish: lets put it this way, if it were to fail, good luck rest of the world's economy |
| 20:16.46 | Adamant | basically VickiWong is correct. it's getting close to being like a US failure |
| 20:16.56 | Adamant | and will surpass it at some point |
| 20:17.06 | VickiWong | Adamant: plus so many economies rely on China's |
| 20:17.15 | Adamant | VickiWong: right, same as .us |
| 20:17.19 | jasta | the US especially :) |
| 20:17.24 | Adamant | right] |
| 20:17.40 | languish | China needs to establish a strong middle class to succeed. They're state supporting a buildout of cities, education, and business. They're too large to support that for long, and the effects of utilizing their resources in the manner they are, will come back at them in about 15 to 20 years. 5 to 10 years after that their people will be ready to revolt or fight eachother. |
| 20:17.42 | Adamant | China's having problems right now because the US economy is in the shitter and Europe is going with it |
| 20:18.00 | languish | The only way to stave off internal strife, will be to go to war, to unite military factions. |
| 20:18.03 | Dougie187 | man from muthu bashing to politics in 24 hours |
| 20:18.11 | VickiWong | but yeah to summarize, China sucks, HK != China, and China have no say down here for the time being |
| 20:18.12 | Dougie187 | that is quite a variety of topics |
| 20:18.28 | jasta | Dougie187: muthu bashing is just an overarching theme. Nothing to do with the current topic. |
| 20:18.40 | Adamant | why do we hate muthu now? he's cool |
| 20:18.46 | Dougie187 | hes a douche |
| 20:18.48 | VickiWong | lol yeah what was with the muthu bashing :D |
| 20:18.49 | Dougie187 | nothing about him is cool |
| 20:18.59 | Dougie187 | he is about the polar opposite of cool |
| 20:19.13 | Adamant | Dougie187: did he piss in your wheaties or something? |
| 20:19.17 | languish | As soon as China has to go to war with the west, say goodbye to korea, japan, taiwan as it is now, hong kong, and other locations they have claimed in the past |
| 20:19.32 | Dougie187 | Adamant: he talks out of his ass all the time. |
| 20:19.37 | VickiWong | languish: umm why Hong Kong? they are more tied to UK then China for now |
| 20:19.40 | Adamant | languish: SK and Japan would have no problems making nukes |
| 20:19.46 | Dougie187 | anyways. im out |
| 20:19.51 | Dougie187 | talk to you guys later. |
| 20:19.58 | Dougie187 | have fun with the politics. |
| 20:20.02 | Adamant | Taiwan either |
| 20:20.03 | *** part/#android Dougie187 (n=doug@68.35.245.156) |
| 20:20.09 | Adamant | at that point nobody wins such a war. |
| 20:20.17 | jasta | i don't know that languish's doom scenario is going to happen, but i understand the constructs he's using to support it. |
| 20:20.25 | languish | VickiWong, because as a show of force, China will "take back" what they believe is theirs in the first place. And, take any locations they believe have strategic value. Hong Kong included. |
| 20:20.44 | jasta | _if_ china were to declare war on western states, then the tiny pockets being protected by foreign pressures and economy will be taken over quickly |
| 20:20.50 | jasta | i think you'd be kind of insane not to see that |
| 20:21.01 | jasta | but otoh, china declaring war on western states makes no sense and is unlikely to happen :) |
| 20:21.01 | Adamant | there is no winning a war with the West |
| 20:21.05 | jasta | it would be their own miserable undoing |
| 20:21.05 | languish | China cannot wage a conventional war against Europe or the US. So they'll go after everything they can reach. |
| 20:21.11 | Adamant | the West has nukes |
| 20:21.22 | languish | US won't use nukes unless threatened by nukes |
| 20:21.29 | jasta | Adamant: i know but look at the point i'm making: languish's scenario would happen if the unthinkable happened first. that's all he's saying. |
| 20:21.48 | Adamant | Japan, SK, and Taiwan will all make nukes in a heartbeat if they think China is getting froggy |
| 20:21.52 | jasta | the protected "sovereign" nations near China would be once again under Chinese control quickly. in a war situation, what can they do to stop it? |
| 20:22.09 | VickiWong | in a East v West scenario i cant see either side winning, unless you take the nationality of the last person who looses their life |
| 20:22.13 | languish | In fact, the US CANNOT use nukes against China, because in the regions the US would need to attack, the jet stream would carry the fallout to the midwest of the USA |
| 20:22.15 | jasta | Adamant: making nukes isn't something you just "do" and nobody notices :) |
| 20:22.57 | Adamant | jasta: I would be surprised if Japan, SK, and Taiwan didn't have everything but the nuclear material ready for such an occasion |
| 20:23.03 | Adamant | and they all have reactors |
| 20:23.11 | languish | If we nuke China, we're basically just dropping a long slow "dirty bomb" on ourselves |
| 20:23.36 | VickiWong | languish: thats the issue with an East v West, it just doesnt work, it's a loose-loose scenario |
| 20:23.46 | jasta | Adamant: well first of all, they would need to get the material. and the US would never let that happen in this scenario. they aren't going to let a likely weak target of their greatest enemy acquire nuclear technology. it could get stolen and then used against the US. |
| 20:23.47 | languish | VickiWong agreed |
| 20:23.53 | languish | VickiWong, but war is not sensicle |
| 20:24.02 | languish | (sp) |
| 20:24.03 | Adamant | jasta: huh? they all have nuclear reactors |
| 20:24.08 | VickiWong | languish: thats true, but are either side suicidal? |
| 20:24.16 | languish | VickiWong, absoluetly |
| 20:24.21 | *** part/#android commonsguy (n=chatzill@70.44.71.92.res-cmts.sm.ptd.net) |
| 20:24.22 | languish | *absolutely |
| 20:24.23 | jasta | Adamant: you think Taiwan for instance has weapons grade plutonium? uhh. |
| 20:24.38 | Adamant | jasta: I think they can make it no problem |
| 20:24.43 | jasta | and enough of it to critically defend themselves? |
| 20:24.48 | jasta | hehe, ok :) |
| 20:24.52 | languish | VickiWong, the Chinese government is one step away from being as fragmented as the russian military |
| 20:25.04 | Adamant | jasta: and they had a nuclear weapon development program up till the early 80's |
| 20:25.10 | jasta | you think that. and this will take years and no one would pay attention, not even a suspicious, unstable, militant neighbor? |
| 20:25.11 | VickiWong | languish: here's hoping it happens, gives us more hope down here :) |
| 20:25.26 | languish | VickiWong, uhh.. that would be bad for hong kong |
| 20:25.38 | jasta | but all i'm arguing is that languish's logic seems valid. the conditions leading up to his scenario, however, do not. |
| 20:25.42 | VickiWong | this reminds me, HK elections comign up soon |
| 20:25.59 | Adamant | jasta: NK's managed to get nukes |
| 20:26.00 | languish | jasta, here's what you're missing. |
| 20:26.21 | languish | The USA sponsored China to the WTO, for only 1 reason. |
| 20:26.28 | languish | If we didn't China was going to war. |
| 20:26.58 | jasta | Adamant: true, but i do think that was a huge mistake for western states to allow. i can't believe we did, truly |
| 20:27.09 | Adamant | languish: why would we support China in that way? |
| 20:27.15 | jasta | unbelievably frightening that we did not intervene and choke their economy as a result |
| 20:27.17 | languish | China has two choices, either join the int'l community in world trade through the WTO, or go to war. Why? Their people were revolting and breaking up in to factions. |
| 20:27.39 | Adamant | now they're just going to have a bigger military and better nuke missile forces |
| 20:27.47 | VickiWong | jasta: umm, anything bad happens to china's economy believe that it owuld hit the west hard |
| 20:27.59 | languish | Adamant, we supported them against our will really. But, we couldn't aford to go to war with china. |
| 20:28.09 | jasta | VickiWong: i was talking about how we let north korea get nukes. responding to Adamant. |
| 20:28.11 | languish | it's just that simple |
| 20:28.17 | VickiWong | jasta: my bad :) |
| 20:28.18 | Adamant | languish: I don't buy your scenarios, at all |
| 20:28.24 | jasta | VickiWong: that was just a side comment, i was saying that was a ____BIG____ mistake to let happen. |
| 20:28.26 | VickiWong | Adamant: +1 |
| 20:28.39 | VickiWong | jasta: just read it in context, get ya :) |
| 20:28.54 | languish | Adamant, that's fine. They're not my scenarios. They're the scenarios of a large group of world leaders and macroeconomics and military minds. |
| 20:28.58 | Adamant | languish: China would be ridiculously easy to handle in the early 90's |
| 20:29.07 | Adamant | languish: which ones? |
| 20:29.33 | languish | They're the basis for why the USA sponsored china to the WTO, and why we're helping them build out their internal infrastructure |
| 20:29.49 | Adamant | languish: you keep saying this and not providing a cite |
| 20:29.59 | languish | Adamant, go look up all the articles from around the time we sponsored China to the WTO. You'll see the reasoning. |
| 20:30.01 | Adamant | is this a CFR scenario? |
| 20:30.21 | languish | I read about all this a few years ago while it was happening. You can do the same google searches I can. |
| 20:30.47 | Adamant | languish: technically you're the one proposing this, so it's on you to provide cites. it's IRC so I completely understand if you don't want to. |
| 20:31.16 | languish | I really don't care if you "believe" me or not. I'm telling you how I understand things to be. You're welcome to research it. |
| 20:31.21 | jasta | goes back to Android |
| 20:31.28 | languish | speaking fo which |
| 20:31.30 | VickiWong | anyway...so yeah...cantonese food is tasty (thats how this began lol) |
| 20:31.36 | Adamant | jasta is the only sensible person here |
| 20:31.42 | languish | damn UPS wouldn't deliver or hold my G1's for me to pick up today :/ |
| 20:31.44 | languish | bastards |
| 20:31.58 | ttuttle | languish: That sucks. |
| 20:32.00 | jasta | Adamant: trying to get Five ready for Wed :) |
| 20:32.04 | languish | VickiWong, honk kong women are tasty too. But then you know that. |
| 20:32.05 | ttuttle | languish: But it's standard, I think. |
| 20:32.06 | languish | :/ |
| 20:32.11 | ttuttle | languish: Hey, hold on... how are you getting yours now? |
| 20:32.17 | VickiWong | languish: you realise i am female right? |
| 20:32.24 | languish | VickiWong of course. |
| 20:32.38 | languish | I realize you say you are at any rate. |
| 20:32.44 | VickiWong | languish: oh ok lol |
| 20:32.49 | languish | You're all really just ascii to me. |
| 20:32.52 | languish | :) |
| 20:32.57 | VickiWong | languish: meh no interest in having 'that' conversation :D |
| 20:33.08 | languish | Yeah, I wasn't going there, no worries. |
| 20:33.22 | jasta | languish: actually, your IRC client is probably understanding this as iso 8859-1 or some other modern code page. not ascii. ;) |
| 20:33.23 | VickiWong | 'tits or gtfo flashbacks' |
| 20:33.30 | languish | As I told you before, not hitting on ya, not going to. |
| 20:33.44 | languish | jasta, lol :) |
| 20:33.51 | languish | loves teh unicodez |
| 20:34.21 | languish | wait |
| 20:34.24 | languish | someone asked me something |
| 20:34.32 | languish | <ttuttle> languish: Hey, hold on... how are you getting yours now? |
| 20:34.33 | languish | ah |
| 20:35.38 | languish | ttuttle, I ahd the pre-order. They shipped them a bit early to many. Mine is 20 minutes from my house at the UPS depot, but they won't let me pick it up today, as it was shipped ground and they intend to deliver it monday. |
| 20:35.44 | languish | I called them too late today to do it. |
| 20:35.48 | ttuttle | languish: Damn. |
| 20:35.51 | ttuttle | languish: That sucks. |
| 20:35.59 | jasta | burn that mother down |
| 20:36.03 | languish | srsly |
| 20:36.05 | languish | :\ |
| 20:36.09 | jasta | i am going to incite riots if i dont get mine |
| 20:36.14 | languish | heh |
| 20:36.22 | jasta | already has a whole cabinet full of molotovs ready to go |
| 20:36.49 | languish | I have one cabinet full of vodka, and another of old rags, does that count? |
| 20:36.59 | jasta | that reminds me, have any of you guys ever seen snow on fire? it is the coolest thing ever. |
| 20:37.11 | jasta | languish: you need packing peanuts too. or some other type of styrofoam. |
| 20:37.21 | languish | snow No such nick/channel |
| 20:37.24 | languish | poor snow :( |
| 20:37.39 | jasta | you see gasoline on fire is just gasoline on fire. |
| 20:37.54 | jasta | gasoline with a thickening agent such as dissolved styrofoam is just, well, poor man's napalm :) |
| 20:37.59 | languish | jasta, I used wax |
| 20:38.16 | languish | oh for the napalkm |
| 20:38.27 | languish | i used wax to seal the molitovs |
| 20:38.38 | languish | those were teh good 'ol days |
| 20:38.39 | jasta | if you make a molotov out of that stuff, it will be sticky (which is the point, otherwise its a pretty terrible weapon) |
| 20:38.47 | languish | nod |
| 20:39.20 | languish | One of our science teachers in HS took us out to have fun with all types of home made demolitions and whatnot |
| 20:39.29 | ttuttle | languish: nice |
| 20:39.32 | languish | he's in prison now :( |
| 20:39.39 | languish | but for unrelated reasons |
| 20:39.44 | jasta | tax evasion? |
| 20:39.44 | jasta | :) |
| 20:39.58 | languish | No. He pushed a VP out a 4th story window |
| 20:40.25 | jasta | for accusing him of tax evasion...? |
| 20:40.36 | languish | nah, for insulting his educational credentials |
| 20:40.43 | languish | the VP was a former science teacher |
| 20:40.45 | jasta | hmm, pretty hot button guy |
| 20:41.00 | jasta | still, back to snow on fire. really, try it. |
| 20:41.05 | languish | and didn't believe in allowing students to partake in risky experiments |
| 20:41.06 | jasta | it's not obsessively pyro or anything. |
| 20:41.14 | ttuttle | jasta: ...of course not ;-) |
| 20:41.17 | languish | yes, it is, but cool nontheless |
| 20:41.19 | jasta | you just pour some fuel on the snow and light it. it will burn in a very neat way that is hard to predict |
| 20:41.31 | jasta | it's all blue and "dances" around. |
| 20:41.51 | languish | jasta mon, the first step is to admit you have a problem |
| 20:41.54 | languish | :D |
| 20:42.06 | jasta | i think whats going on is that it melts the snow directly underneath it which mixes the fuel and water so that the fuel kind of slopes downward and moves somewhere else |
| 20:42.56 | jasta | i mean, the fuel of course doesnt mix, it just floats on top, but the shape of the terrain underneath changes and now the water drains elsewhere taking the fuel with it |
| 20:43.07 | *** join/#android meoblast001 (n=meoblast@dynamic-acs-24-239-93-241.zoominternet.net) |
| 20:43.07 | jasta | and then repeats over and over until it burns out. so it seems to move pretty randomly |
| 20:43.34 | umdk1d3 | "Four."? @ topic |
| 20:43.36 | languish | nowdays, I prefer to just bounce pretty lights off mirrors |
| 20:43.56 | jasta | languish: http://flickr.com/photos/devjasta/2122419472/in/set-72157603498623623/ |
| 20:43.59 | jasta | there's a picture of it |
| 20:43.59 | languish | umdk1d3, I assume until the 22nd, official release of the G1 |
| 20:44.05 | umdk1d3 | ahic |
| 20:44.06 | jasta | but of course a video would do it better |
| 20:44.40 | jasta | languish: http://flickr.com/photos/devjasta/2121643483/in/set-72157603498623623/ -- fireballs :) |
| 20:44.55 | *** join/#android tonyacunar (n=joseacun@c-76-16-208-53.hsd1.il.comcast.net) |
| 20:44.59 | languish | I hope you don't think you were larping... |
| 20:45.01 | languish | :\ |
| 20:45.13 | jasta | larping? |
| 20:45.20 | languish | *gasp* |
| 20:45.22 | languish | nevermind. |
| 20:45.43 | *** join/#android mike1o (n=mike@151.66.137.11) |
| 20:46.22 | languish | wonders if that nick is "tonya cunar" or "tony acunar" from the ident, it might be jose's brother/father/son |
| 20:46.29 | languish | :\ |
| 20:47.00 | languish | ok this comedy segment is over. back to my regularly scheduled whatever I was doing before |
| 20:48.09 | ttuttle | lol |
| 20:48.16 | ttuttle | larping is fun |
| 20:48.20 | ttuttle | not that i've ever done it |
| 20:48.23 | ttuttle | <_< |
| 20:48.25 | ttuttle | >_> |
| 20:48.52 | Adamant | I cast magic missile at the dorkness |
| 20:49.07 | Adamant | jokes |
| 20:49.13 | bg | it's acunar, judging by the identd |
| 20:49.15 | ttuttle | blocks with his +5 G1 of awesomeness. |
| 20:49.23 | bg | oh, you already noticed that. |
| 20:49.26 | bg | leaves again |
| 20:52.22 | languish | bg, responding to sentences before finishing reading 'em |
| 20:52.29 | languish | applauds |
| 20:52.31 | bg | :P |
| 20:52.36 | languish | :) |
| 20:52.42 | *** join/#android bderrly (i=foobar@75.142.152.133) |
| 20:52.54 | bg | I write as I read. It's very efficient, albeit prone to error |
| 20:53.09 | languish | yeah, that's what QA is for later |
| 20:56.30 | *** join/#android mluser-home (n=mluser-h@ip68-0-73-101.tu.ok.cox.net) |
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| 21:39.27 | VickiWong | Is NotePad the only example that uses a database? |
| 21:39.27 | VickiWong | most examples online i can find are for pre-current sdk |
| 21:43.03 | *** join/#android BBHoss (n=bbhoss@c-68-62-170-33.hsd1.al.comcast.net) |
| 21:48.19 | jasta | VickiWong: look at apps-for-android |
| 21:48.26 | jasta | it's a repo linked to from the official blog |
| 21:49.40 | VickiWong | jasta: thanks for the link :) |
| 21:50.06 | *** join/#android yakischloba (n=jake@c-24-22-171-214.hsd1.wa.comcast.net) |
| 21:51.35 | pjv | I'm getting pretty confused here. Anyone know how (Context.)getContentResolver() determines which ContentProvider to address for an activity? |
| 21:53.07 | jasta | pjv: it does so based on the authority of the provider that your egister in your manifest |
| 21:53.27 | jasta | in particular, the ContentResolver looks at the URI requested and figures it out. |
| 21:53.44 | pjv | right |
| 21:54.19 | jasta | so what do you need to know more than that? |
| 21:56.03 | pjv | sorry jasta, just confused |
| 21:56.15 | pjv | trying something with multiple contentproviders |
| 21:56.57 | jasta | specifically, it reads your request for content://AUTHORITY/foo and looks up in a registry of all registered providers authority declarations. |
| 21:57.13 | jasta | so, every apk that says <provider authority=foo> becomes an entry in that registry. pretty simple :) |
| 21:58.01 | pjv | I know, I have to set net.lp.collectionista.genericcollectionprovider as authority |
| 21:58.06 | pjv | a bit stupid really |
| 21:58.34 | pjv | any reason why I can't make a difference deeper: like net.lp.collectionista/collections/generic ? |
| 21:59.02 | jasta | no, the authority part is everything between content:// and the first /. |
| 21:59.12 | pjv | yeah, but why? |
| 21:59.18 | jasta | but i dont see why you couldnt do net.lp.collectionista.collections.generic |
| 21:59.24 | jasta | pjv: arbitrarily. |
| 21:59.40 | jasta | the ContentProvider design totally sucks. i dont know what to tell you other than that :) |
| 21:59.56 | pjv | anyway, thats not my problem |
| 22:00.16 | pjv | it's that managedQuery returns a null cursor |
| 22:00.29 | jasta | thats because your query is broken (sqlite3 said it can't compile it) |
| 22:00.40 | jasta | check adb logcat (it will explain) |
| 22:01.06 | pjv | I'm guessing because that (managedQuery) isn't called like getContentResolver().managedQuery(...) while all the other stuff before it works and is called like that |
| 22:02.26 | jasta | what? i assure you, managedQuery is the same as getContentResolver().query() |
| 22:02.40 | jasta | just that the activity then takes over manaigng the cursor for the activity lifecycle |
| 22:02.56 | jasta | if the query returns null, it's because something you did is broken. check adb logcat, as i said earlier. |
| 22:03.39 | pjv | ok thx, will do |
| 22:22.14 | jasta | wonders what he should make the playlist screen look like |
| 22:22.28 | jasta | does anyone know what the iphone's playlist screen looks like? :) |
| 22:23.21 | umdk1d3 | checks i might have screenshots |
| 22:23.42 | jasta | do you have any other thoughts as well? :) |
| 22:23.46 | jasta | now's a good time to speak up hehe |
| 22:23.54 | jasta | i got five syncing all the playlist data in, so now it's time to just put a face on it |
| 22:25.38 | umdk1d3 | jasta: http://umdk1d3.mine.nu/dump/tunes/ several shots from iphone |
| 22:25.59 | jasta | nice, this is very useful :) |
| 22:26.05 | jasta | websucking... :) |
| 22:26.17 | umdk1d3 | the playlist is pretty similar to all those trackviews |
| 22:26.31 | umdk1d3 | those are all the ones i took when i had access to one |
| 22:28.38 | jasta | oh yeah ok, theirs looks a lot like my VA album listing |
| 22:28.43 | jasta | (oh yes, Five has special support for compilations) |
| 22:29.51 | jasta | their translucencies are a lot "softer" than mine. more opaque and more colorful |
| 22:31.49 | jasta | hehe, their default album art sure does look nice compared to mine :) |
| 22:31.58 | jasta | but, hehe, i have an issue filed about that |
| 22:32.12 | *** join/#android bolly (n=bolly@87-194-145-4.bethere.co.uk) |
| 22:32.19 | bolly | does android run on x86? |
| 22:32.36 | jasta | uhh, it might. there's no source tho, so who knows. |
| 22:35.47 | pjv | night all |
| 22:35.47 | bolly | damn |
| 22:35.50 | bolly | http://www.mail-archive.com/android-internals@googlegroups.com/msg00638.html |
| 22:35.53 | bolly | night pjv |
| 22:36.20 | jasta | bolly: well thats exactly what i just told you |
| 22:36.52 | bolly | so what platform do you run the sdk on |
| 22:37.24 | jasta | the SDK includes an emulator, which runs the native stack on an emulated ARM processor. |
| 22:37.31 | bolly | oh great! |
| 22:37.39 | bolly | i was wondering how you debug |
| 22:37.56 | jasta | perhaps you should just read the instructions and get started. |
| 22:38.25 | umdk1d3 | bolly: are you interested in low-level programming (linux kernel or c++)? |
| 22:38.27 | bolly | thanks i think i will |
| 22:38.55 | umdk1d3 | or just high-level apps development |
| 22:39.01 | bolly | i have no experience with the linux kernel other than compiling it as it comes |
| 22:39.09 | bolly | high level apps yeah |
| 22:39.11 | bolly | well tbh |
| 22:39.31 | umdk1d3 | okay cool, the high-levle stuff is all java and you can easily play with it |
| 22:39.34 | bolly | i want to listen to music from my pc at home on my phone at work |
| 22:39.43 | umdk1d3 | rooooooofl |
| 22:39.45 | bolly | and i managed to get android on my phone |
| 22:39.46 | jasta | thats ironic |
| 22:39.46 | umdk1d3 | points at jasta |
| 22:39.54 | jasta | bolly: http://five.googlecode.com is my project. |
| 22:40.17 | umdk1d3 | bolly: jasta already has it mostly written and working ;) i know hes looking for more interested devs tho |
| 22:40.45 | bolly | oh nice last.fm too |
| 22:43.03 | bolly | i can't believe the chances |
| 22:43.15 | jasta | pretty strange :) |
| 22:43.38 | jasta | the project is open source, and if you are interested, you can take a look at the issue list |
| 22:43.45 | bolly | proves how badly we need mobile music |
| 22:44.15 | bolly | i will mention it to my friend who was also after something similar |
| 22:44.36 | jasta | do either of you have experience writing code? |
| 22:45.03 | bolly | we were dabling with a wm6.1 player with c#.net on compact framework |
| 22:45.16 | bolly | but then all this android news figured might as well make it for android |
| 22:45.20 | jasta | i did the same a while back. |
| 22:45.31 | bolly | nothing really good for the windows mobile world is there |
| 22:45.44 | jasta | i think that my project is a bit more sophisticated than you realize, too :) |
| 22:45.44 | bolly | and all the streaming sites arent the same as accessing your own music |
| 22:47.20 | bolly | how are you gonna deal with the local cache of music |
| 22:47.28 | bolly | days since last listened to? |
| 22:47.31 | jasta | well, get yourself started with the Android SDK and once you're familiar with it i can show you how to build and install Five. |
| 22:47.38 | bolly | definately |
| 22:47.43 | bolly | no point reinventing the wheel |
| 22:47.45 | jasta | bolly: hehe yes, Five is definitely more sophisticated than you realize :) |
| 22:48.26 | jasta | Five is 9 months old at this point. Approaching a 1.0 stable release in the next few months. Usable fundamentally right now though. |
| 22:49.04 | umdk1d3 | jasta: i still havent heard back about doing that video :/ |
| 22:49.13 | umdk1d3 | even tho they prolly dont care at this point |
| 22:49.32 | jasta | yeah actually, i know somebody that has already received their device legitimately |
| 22:49.39 | jasta | as a consumer, i mean |
| 22:49.43 | umdk1d3 | ooh |
| 22:49.55 | umdk1d3 | like, in your area that could do a vid with? |
| 22:50.19 | jasta | my girlfriend's brother is a low level T-Mobile exec, but he's not under NDA or anything junky like that. he just put in an order like everyone else but got the shipping switched to next day air |
| 22:50.28 | jasta | no, he lives in Virginia or something |
| 22:50.29 | umdk1d3 | ahahaha |
| 22:50.43 | jasta | his arrived Friday morning i think |
| 22:51.15 | jasta | he's the way i'm getting my phone unlocked. he's temporarily adding my SIM to his own account, getting it unlocked, then releasing it back to mine |
| 22:52.15 | jasta | i'm sure he doesn't have a decent camera tho |
| 22:54.25 | jasta | alright, got all the mechanics committed to SVN, time to butcher the UI :) |
| 22:54.36 | jasta | this is gonna be an exciting feature to get in there |
| 22:54.42 | jasta | ramps usability way up |
| 23:02.00 | _avatar | jasta: five is a very cool idea |
| 23:02.30 | _avatar | it's very similar to a program i've been working, we allow music libraries to be created locally, and shared over the internet |
| 23:02.40 | _avatar | working = working *on* |
| 23:03.22 | jasta | shared as in, with other people? |
| 23:03.45 | _avatar | well, it will be hard to advertise it that way, but yeah |
| 23:03.57 | _avatar | you start the server, users are authenticated and can connect and listen to your music |
| 23:04.17 | jasta | what is the client mechanism? |
| 23:04.21 | _avatar | http://photos.clangen.org/dump/remotelib.png |
| 23:04.39 | _avatar | shows what it looks like from the client's perspective |
| 23:04.44 | jasta | ahh yes, well that is not just similar but exactly what Five does. |
| 23:05.05 | _avatar | yeah, but we don't do any sort of synchronizing yet |
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| 23:05.24 | jasta | well, and that's something you can get away with when you're assuming a fast network connection :) |
| 23:05.25 | _avatar | but we have a pretty robust, extendable client |
| 23:05.32 | _avatar | right |
| 23:05.44 | After_Math | Is there any tutorials out there about writing Android apps using the command line in linux? |
| 23:05.53 | jasta | _avatar: well, i kinda wish we had met a long time ago :) |
| 23:05.56 | _avatar | eventually we'll want to implement some sort of caching, or syncing mechanism |
| 23:06.03 | _avatar | jasta: me too :) |
| 23:06.15 | _avatar | because i was thinking "man, it'd sure be nice to write an android client" |
| 23:06.17 | _avatar | heh |
| 23:06.21 | jasta | i wonder if we can adapt these two technologies to each other somehow |
| 23:06.36 | jasta | is yours open source? |
| 23:06.42 | _avatar | yeah, BSD license |
| 23:06.50 | jasta | mine is GPL. |
| 23:06.51 | _avatar | http://code.google.com/p/musikcube/ |
| 23:06.53 | jasta | walks the other way |
| 23:06.55 | jasta | hehe, just kidding :) |
| 23:07.03 | _avatar | :) |
| 23:07.16 | jasta | what is the network protocol like? |
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| 23:07.25 | _avatar | HTTP |
| 23:07.30 | jasta | right but i mean specifically |
| 23:07.38 | _avatar | we just have a very simple homebrew HTTP server using boost::asio |
| 23:07.50 | jasta | so you make RESTful requests to get XML or something? |
| 23:08.02 | _avatar | yeah, pretty much |
| 23:08.20 | _avatar | i can't answer anything more specific than that, work asked me to stop coding for it a while ago citing conflict of interest |
| 23:08.30 | jasta | hmm, Five is quite similar, it's just that it also implements SyncML through the same HTTP server to do the syncing. |
| 23:08.35 | _avatar | i'm still acting as project manager, but am not really allowed to get my hands dirty :( |
| 23:08.44 | _avatar | ah, nice |
| 23:09.26 | jasta | so the big difference is that Five assumes a very slow, unstable network connection and requires efficient network access |
| 23:09.36 | _avatar | right |
| 23:09.47 | jasta | that is, it syncs only changes between connected sessions and things like that. otehrwise, you just make an HTTP GET request to download a music file |
| 23:10.26 | _avatar | how does it decide what to sync? |
| 23:10.41 | jasta | so whats the projects status right now? i'm very interested in bringing this dev team together at this point |
| 23:10.54 | jasta | _avatar: the server is sophisticated. it knows what has changed since the last sync |
| 23:12.01 | _avatar | jasta: pretty active at the moment. we're about to hit a milestone. we have 1 really dedicated developer, and a few that help out when they have time. and i work on the underlying UI layer |
| 23:12.12 | jasta | so your server and client are Windows only? |
| 23:12.41 | _avatar | jasta: we only have windows clients, but the server and library code is all cross platform |
| 23:12.56 | jasta | hmm. |
| 23:13.02 | jasta | checks out svn |
| 23:13.23 | _avatar | if you want to get the streaming stuff, grab the filestream_implementation branch |
| 23:13.24 | jasta | how is the server UI cross platform and in C++? Wx? |
| 23:13.45 | _avatar | server client is windows only, but the server itself (the daemon) is cross platform |
| 23:13.53 | jasta | ahh |
| 23:13.54 | jasta | i see |
| 23:14.03 | _avatar | that said, i'm not sure if we've tested compiling on other platforms, but it uses only cross platform components (mostly bost) |
| 23:14.06 | _avatar | bost=boost |
| 23:14.07 | jasta | my server is currently Linux only, but only because only a GTK UI is built |
| 23:14.24 | jasta | everything else is written using GLib and is quite portable |
| 23:14.35 | _avatar | our windows clients use a custom abstraction of the win32 api we're working on |
| 23:14.54 | _avatar | btw, if you're interested we should take this conversation to #musik on this server, that's where the devs hang out |
| 23:15.22 | jasta | ok, sure |
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| 23:47.42 | After_Math | Ok, I am following this tut, http://geeth.ganesan.googlepages.com/android-tutorial and in it it says I have to do this, Give path= |
| 23:47.42 | After_Math | c:\winNT\system32;c:\jdk1.5\bin;e:\ant1.6\bin, but that is for windows, and I am using linux, how would I do that in linux? |
| 23:48.12 | Dougie187 | After_Math: it depends on the path to the things you are looking for. |
| 23:48.15 | Dougie187 | and your shell |
| 23:48.43 | After_Math | Dougie187, I see, is there a tutorial out there that does command line programming with linux? |
| 23:49.04 | Dougie187 | ionno |
| 23:49.08 | After_Math | oh |
| 23:49.32 | Dougie187 | java should be in your path if you setup java correctly. |
| 23:49.39 | Dougie187 | same with "system32"... |
| 23:49.43 | Dougie187 | though that doesn't exist. |
| 23:49.49 | Dougie187 | but ant1.6 might be different |
| 23:50.21 | Dougie187 | to add ant1.6 you need to find the path for the ant1.6 binaries |
| 23:50.26 | Dougie187 | they if you use bash, type something like this |
| 23:50.42 | Dougie187 | export PATH="${PATH}:antpath" |
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| 23:51.26 | After_Math | ok |
| 23:51.30 | After_Math | thanks |
| 23:52.04 | Dougie187 | antpath is going to be the path to the ant binaries. |
| 23:52.06 | Dougie187 | no problem. |
| 23:52.17 | Dougie187 | you should be able to follow most of the tutorial though. |
| 23:52.35 | Dougie187 | you can also type "export $PATH" to see what your path contains. |
| 23:52.40 | After_Math | Ya it seems pretty simple, this just mademe stummble a bit |
| 23:52.51 | Dougie187 | yeah |
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