| 00:20.40 | SanMehat | ls |
| 00:20.42 | SanMehat | shit |
| 00:21.01 | zhobbs | wrong window? :) |
| 00:21.12 | SanMehat | yesh :) |
| 00:23.46 | ttuttle | SanMehat: how's it going? |
| 00:29.17 | SanMehat | good |
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| 00:33.08 | ttuttle | SanMehat: cool |
| 00:34.38 | ttuttle | is running around campus searching for his G1's USB cable. |
| 00:34.52 | *** join/#android kslater (n=kslater@206.193.247.78.nauticom.net) |
| 00:36.26 | JoeBrain | not proprietary cable right? |
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| 00:37.19 | ttuttle | the usb cable does not work with other miniusb devices, but the phone takes a miniusb cable. |
| 00:37.39 | JoeBrain | how about other miniusb cables? |
| 00:38.06 | romainguy___ | any miniusb cable works fine with the G1 |
| 00:38.15 | wastrel | my bonus came in <3 |
| 00:38.15 | ttuttle | JoeBrain: yeah, theplug accepts miniusb or htc's proprietary cable. |
| 00:38.19 | wastrel | i'm gonna get a goooooooooooooooglephone |
| 00:38.21 | romainguy___ | I use a Logitech car charger |
| 00:38.26 | romainguy___ | and a Motorola wall charger :) |
| 00:38.47 | ttuttle | lol |
| 00:39.00 | JoeBrain | I thought moto had proprietary cables for charging their damn phones |
| 00:39.02 | ttuttle | ^ not me typing |
| 00:39.17 | Lazyworm | hey, any one can tell me how to select text in android? i know i can long click and select all, but how to select one word? |
| 00:39.44 | romainguy___ | shift-arrows |
| 00:40.20 | Lazyworm | :O, can't do that without keybord? |
| 00:40.36 | ttuttle | romainguy___: oh, is there a keyboard shortcut for cut/copy/paste? |
| 00:40.50 | romainguy___ | alt-c/v/x |
| 00:40.51 | ttuttle | Lazyworm: um, that is keyboard. |
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| 00:41.09 | ttuttle | romainguy___: really? that didn't seem to work. |
| 00:42.27 | wastrel | moto's latest use usb |
| 00:42.32 | wastrel | at least my wife's does |
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| 00:52.25 | wastrel | hi |
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| 01:55.13 | kslater | does anyone know how to insert a ctrl key on the G1? |
| 01:55.33 | jasta | why do you need this? |
| 01:55.38 | kslater | as in ctrl-z to background a process |
| 01:55.45 | jasta | try again |
| 01:55.48 | gdsx | kslater: get a knife and a soldering iron |
| 01:55.50 | kslater | ssh terminal client |
| 01:56.07 | jasta | kslater: there isn't a way with that keyboard. your approach is wrong. |
| 01:56.07 | kslater | sorta one of those keys you end up using a good bit |
| 01:56.22 | jasta | lol |
| 01:56.25 | jasta | have you used a cell phone before? |
| 01:56.26 | gdsx | kslater: this device isn't really intended to be a terminal |
| 01:56.42 | kslater | doesn't matter what it's intended to be |
| 01:56.57 | jasta | yes it most certainly does |
| 01:57.00 | kslater | ConnectBot - there's already an ssh client |
| 01:57.11 | jasta | if you want to _send_ a ctrl key, just do so. implement it in a menu or whatever. |
| 01:57.16 | kslater | I'm just trying to see if there's a way to get the most out of it. |
| 01:57.17 | ttuttle | Or use the search key. |
| 01:57.28 | jasta | yeah, that's pretty clever |
| 01:57.28 | ttuttle | A terminal doesn't need search anyway. |
| 01:57.36 | kslater | true enough |
| 01:57.43 | ttuttle | and it's a decent place to put it. |
| 01:58.00 | jasta | but really, i think you should still have it in a menu or somehow invoked another way |
| 01:58.09 | ttuttle | jasta: Why, if you have an extra keyboard key? |
| 01:58.35 | jasta | ttuttle: because that way you can have both for people who don't want to set their phone on a table to awkwardly push control sequences |
| 01:58.42 | ttuttle | Um... |
| 01:58.46 | kslater | and jasta to your point, it matters somewhat what the device was "intended" to be. but smart phones are a move towards a more general purpose device in your pocket |
| 01:58.47 | ttuttle | Alt is right next to it. |
| 01:59.00 | ttuttle | If it's awkward to use search for ctrl, then it's awkward to use Alt, period. |
| 01:59.13 | ttuttle | You'd probably want it to be sticky, like Alt and Shift. |
| 01:59.57 | kslater | thanks for the input guys |
| 02:00.11 | jasta | ttuttle: btw, you are the only one of us who has actually used a phone, so... ;) |
| 02:00.17 | ttuttle | jasta: ;-) |
| 02:00.26 | ttuttle | Oh, yeah, if you're looking for advice on input or stuff, you can ask ;-) |
| 02:00.53 | ttuttle | <3 "ant reinstall". |
| 02:01.09 | benley | dislikes holding down search and hitting anything on the left half of the keyboard |
| 02:01.12 | yakischloba | I've used ssh on a phone before but I certainly didn't do it thinking I was gonna be able to use ctrl, alt etc |
| 02:01.28 | *** part/#android DubLo7 (n=DubLo7@97-83-100-145.dhcp.trcy.mi.charter.com) |
| 02:01.41 | benley | yakischloba: terminals that provide no way of entering ctrl and alt and various punctuation are fucking maddening |
| 02:01.48 | benley | the hiptop ssh client got that right at least |
| 02:01.57 | yakischloba | benley: yeah, so is using ssh on a phone in general IMO ;) |
| 02:01.58 | benley | the android terminal does an acceptable job as well |
| 02:01.58 | jasta | so there you have it ttuttle :) |
| 02:02.08 | benley | yakischloba: it doesn't have to be unusable though |
| 02:02.26 | ttuttle | benley: Am I allowed to tell jasta how Dev Tools' terminal implements Ctrl? |
| 02:02.28 | yakischloba | eh sure. I guess the approach I would go for is a little menu |
| 02:02.37 | yakischloba | "Apply CTRL hold to next key press" |
| 02:02.48 | ttuttle | yakischloba: Yeah, so why not use the Search key to do that? |
| 02:03.00 | benley | ttuttle: hold down the trackball? |
| 02:03.06 | ttuttle | benley: Yeah. |
| 02:03.16 | benley | ttuttle: I don't see why that should be secret :-P |
| 02:03.18 | ttuttle | jasta: So, the "Dev Tools" terminal uses the trackball as Ctrl. |
| 02:03.27 | jasta | you don't say? |
| 02:03.27 | ttuttle | benley: Well, I don't want to anger anyone. |
| 02:03.31 | jasta | you're an odd fella ttuttle |
| 02:03.43 | yakischloba | ttuttle: I wholeheartedly encourage any efforts to make ssh more usable on the phone. God knows I'll probably end up using it :) |
| 02:04.00 | jasta | i plan to use it a lot for irc ;) |
| 02:04.18 | ttuttle | jasta: Well, I don't want to get in trouble for giving out secrets. |
| 02:04.27 | jasta | beyond the ones you've already given out? :) |
| 02:04.30 | kslater | I plan to use it for when I'm out and have to do some admin |
| 02:04.30 | ttuttle | jasta: And some people's definitions of secrets includes things I wouldn't consider secret, so I figure it's best to check. |
| 02:04.34 | ttuttle | jasta: Yeah. |
| 02:04.43 | ttuttle | Oh, and that G1's are secretly robots that will unite to take over the world. |
| 02:04.47 | benley | if I ever finish my irc thingie for android it may actually be nicer than using ssh |
| 02:04.54 | ttuttle | benley: I'd hope so :-P |
| 02:05.20 | jasta | benley: i wouldn't use a direct ssh client. i don't like the idea of having lots of different nicks online. i guess i could use a bounce... |
| 02:05.24 | jasta | but i'd rather just use ssh ;P |
| 02:05.36 | jasta | err direct irc client |
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| 02:05.46 | ttuttle | jasta: Yeah, I want a good ssh client too. |
| 02:05.51 | ttuttle | nmaps his phone. |
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| 02:06.44 | yakischloba | yeah so whats up with my secret info being sent to Google and receiving shady automatic updates? I haven't heard any talk about that recently |
| 02:06.46 | benley | ttuttle: I guess someone sent you a g1 at some point? |
| 02:06.53 | ttuttle | benley: Yeah, San did last Friday. |
| 02:06.57 | benley | cool. |
| 02:07.00 | ttuttle | yakischloba: Um, like most products it receives software updates. |
| 02:07.11 | jasta | back to hacking |
| 02:07.13 | yakischloba | ttuttle: Do I have an opportunity to opt-out? |
| 02:07.15 | ttuttle | yakischloba: To the best of my knowledge it does not send your secret info back to Google. |
| 02:07.18 | ttuttle | yakischloba: I do not know. |
| 02:07.29 | ttuttle | yakischloba: Well, I have been prompted in the past with a choice. |
| 02:08.02 | benley | yakischloba: you can click no to the OTA updates from what I've seen so far |
| 02:08.10 | benley | yakischloba: just like on every other mobile device I've used |
| 02:08.27 | yakischloba | ttuttle: Hmm. I took a peek into an older SDK a long time ago and found that it was sending in crash reports (I believe without my knowledge) |
| 02:08.33 | ttuttle | yakischloba: Hrm. |
| 02:08.50 | ttuttle | yakischloba: So, I wouldn't be surprised (or offended) if it sends back crash reports for Google apps. |
| 02:08.51 | yakischloba | ttuttle: which included IMEI and a few other things IIRC |
| 02:08.56 | ttuttle | yakischloba: They are, I am sure, properly anonymized. |
| 02:09.00 | ttuttle | yakischloba: Oh, IMEI? :-( |
| 02:09.24 | benley | that's valid cause for concern but I'm not sure the older SDKs are reflective of what actually ships :-P |
| 02:09.32 | ttuttle | yakischloba: Try the current SDK. |
| 02:09.49 | yakischloba | ttuttle: I don't _actually_ care. I'm not important enough for anyone to be bothering with my private information, just was a curious finding ;) |
| 02:10.08 | yakischloba | benley: yeah, I haven't looked at anything recent |
| 02:10.10 | ttuttle | yakischloba: Yeah, but there's a whole pile of people itching to say Google's trying to steal their secrets. |
| 02:10.37 | yakischloba | yeah I know. I think it will be unfortunate it someone finds that this crash reporter is still in place and makes a big deal out of it |
| 02:10.48 | yakischloba | I could give a shit, but someone will be sensational about it |
| 02:11.05 | benley | turns off the goddamn debate |
| 02:12.22 | ttuttle | yakischloba++ |
| 02:13.03 | benley | what data does the crash reporter send? |
| 02:13.20 | yakischloba | I really can't imagine people who's private business is so important that it would be catastrophic if they were revealed, but happen to be using gmail or google calendar |
| 02:13.38 | ttuttle | romainguy___: Hey, the barcode scanning is working. And the 1.0 SDK works great! |
| 02:13.41 | ttuttle | romainguy___: Thanks for the help! |
| 02:13.56 | yakischloba | Anyone who really needs to keep things secret will use a proper system that is suited to their needs |
| 02:13.56 | ttuttle | embarks on the glorious journey to becoming a real Android app developer. |
| 02:14.06 | yakischloba | for the rest of us, theres Google |
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| 02:14.51 | benley | yakischloba: oh, like paris hilton? |
| 02:15.04 | yakischloba | benley: :) |
| 02:15.26 | benley | (I'm sure you remember the OMG LOL PARIS HILTON SIDECAK HAXORD story) |
| 02:15.37 | yakischloba | yeah |
| 02:15.50 | ttuttle | benley: Ooh, can we add a feature for that? |
| 02:16.28 | benley | ttuttle: if (user == "Paris Fucking Hilton") { self.security.disable(); }; |
| 02:16.46 | ttuttle | benley: Yep! |
| 02:16.59 | yakischloba | someone save me from perl pls :( |
| 02:17.13 | ttuttle | yakischloba: Oh, what's the problem? |
| 02:17.15 | benley | yakischloba: here, have a Python book. *thunk* |
| 02:17.16 | ttuttle | yakischloba: I don't mind Perl. |
| 02:17.19 | yakischloba | heh |
| 02:17.28 | yakischloba | "Here, write this that does that. It must be written in Perl, sorry." |
| 02:17.37 | ttuttle | yakischloba: Oh, what's it for? |
| 02:17.45 | benley | system("python2.4 do-stuff.py") |
| 02:18.08 | yakischloba | ttuttle: oh, just a bunch of systems monitoring junk for internal servers. |
| 02:18.31 | ttuttle | yakischloba: Ah. |
| 02:18.42 | yakischloba | ttuttle: checking RAID, making sure certain services are not consuming more resources than they should. god awfully boring business. |
| 02:18.50 | ttuttle | yakischloba: Meh. Nice to have though. |
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| 02:19.00 | yakischloba | Someone has got to do it, I suppose :/ |
| 02:19.51 | yakischloba | I don't think I'll ever like Perl though. So whacky imo |
| 02:20.06 | benley | yakischloba: heh, that's basically what my primary project is |
| 02:20.19 | benley | "monitoring stuff" |
| 02:20.23 | benley | only I don't have to do it in perl :) |
| 02:20.25 | yakischloba | haha |
| 02:20.27 | yakischloba | must be nice |
| 02:20.48 | yakischloba | "Sorry dude, we can't install Ruby on every server." |
| 02:20.59 | ttuttle | yakischloba: Python, at least? |
| 02:21.17 | yakischloba | I remember taking a quick look at Perl about 5 years ago and deciding I wanted nothing to do with it |
| 02:21.57 | yakischloba | ttuttle: They want it to be maintainable by others in the future. Evidently Perl is the be-all-end-all of systems administration languages and must be used as the standard. |
| 02:22.02 | ttuttle | Ah. |
| 02:22.37 | benley | I am glad that someone at google decided to use python for that back in the day instead of perl |
| 02:22.53 | yakischloba | I guess the one upside is that I find it so clumsy, I am forced to write more simple and clear code. |
| 02:23.13 | yakischloba | else I forget what the hell I'm doing when I look back up the page |
| 02:24.13 | benley | detaches |
| 02:24.17 | yakischloba | same |
| 02:24.20 | yakischloba | back to perl misery |
| 02:24.24 | ttuttle | What's the right way to do HTTP requests? |
| 02:24.31 | ttuttle | org.apache.http.client.impl.DefaultHttpClient? |
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| 02:49.26 | jasta | ttuttle: yes, httpclient 4.x. |
| 02:49.40 | jasta | i have constructed a pretty good example of this usage, actually... hang on |
| 02:51.28 | jasta | http://code.google.com/p/android-random/source/browse/#svn/trunk/CancelHttpGet/src/org/devtcg/demo/cancelhttpget |
| 02:51.35 | jasta | this shows how you can properly stop the download thread as well |
| 02:51.57 | jasta | there's an example in android-apps that has a gaping bug in its attempt to do so. |
| 02:52.03 | jasta | so i dont recommend you look at that |
| 02:52.27 | jasta | you also could implement my example a bit simpler but i just wanted to be very explicit as to whats going on |
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| 03:06.32 | ttuttle | jasta: I've got it. |
| 03:06.41 | wastrel | is there a way to ensure i can get a phone on the 22nd |
| 03:06.50 | ttuttle | wastrel: Build a time machine and pre-order one. |
| 03:07.00 | ttuttle | wastrel: Alternatively, find and camp out at your local T-Mobile store. |
| 03:07.00 | wastrel | i'm not a current tmob. custy |
| 03:07.10 | wastrel | i could go back further in time and become one i suppose |
| 03:07.18 | wastrel | or i could just go forward in time, buy one and come back. |
| 03:07.33 | wastrel | really i could skip the g1 if i had a time machine |
| 03:08.52 | ttuttle | wastrel: You could go forward and bring back a device with Android 2.0 and tell us about it! |
| 03:12.40 | wastrel | you really think it'll be necessary to camp the t-mob store? |
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| 03:16.14 | jasta | grooves |
| 03:16.51 | jasta | o/~ i hope, the weather holds / but you don't need the sun to make you shine / these island towns don't care for city folk / but i think we can starve the city from our minds o/~ |
| 03:17.05 | jasta | i'm in a really great mood tonight :) |
| 03:18.01 | yakischloba | must be drunk, that is too lighthearted of you ;) |
| 03:18.21 | jasta | nah, just feelin good |
| 03:18.26 | jasta | coding up playlist support in Five :) |
| 03:18.32 | jasta | listening to Minus The Bear, of course |
| 03:18.38 | jasta | that always puts me in a good mood |
| 03:19.00 | yakischloba | i over-listened them wayyy too far |
| 03:19.09 | jasta | impossible |
| 03:19.33 | yakischloba | then I mustn't have truly loved em |
| 03:20.20 | jasta | o/~ and so i'm swimming, more like floating / and i'll just stay out here, until the night comes crashing down o/~ |
| 03:20.24 | jasta | ok, i'll stop |
| 03:20.25 | jasta | ;) |
| 03:20.54 | jasta | that is from my favorite minus the bear song tho. "I'm Totally Not Down with Rob's Alien" |
| 03:21.02 | yakischloba | "o/~" jasta's emo cave marking |
| 03:21.11 | wastrel | monkey!!! knife!!! fight!!! |
| 03:21.12 | jasta | it's a music note |
| 03:21.23 | yakischloba | heh yes I understood that ;) |
| 03:21.41 | jasta | if you think Minus The Bear is emo you're a freaking retard btw ;) |
| 03:22.13 | dmoffett | jasta: did you finally get laid? |
| 03:22.25 | dmoffett | I remember my first time. :-) |
| 03:22.33 | yakischloba | oo haterade |
| 03:22.38 | jasta | yeah, that's not cool dude |
| 03:23.26 | yakischloba | i mean he is only like 26 or whatever after all, its not that late ;) |
| 03:24.03 | jasta | this might be a good time to mention that i will almost certainly get drunk and play minus the bear at the halloween party, yakischloba :) |
| 03:24.04 | dmoffett | Just never seen him so happy that is all. Something must be up. |
| 03:24.20 | dmoffett | Can't believe it is all over just a phone and a song. :-) |
| 03:24.23 | jasta | dmoffett: maybe i just don't like you guys? hehe, ever think about that? :) |
| 03:24.37 | yakischloba | jasta: haha I'll rock out with ya. just because I over-listened doesn't mean I can't enjoy a song every now and again |
| 03:24.53 | jasta | my roommate thinks it's just noise hehe |
| 03:25.15 | dmoffett | jasta: I think you thrive on conflict. :-) |
| 03:25.49 | jasta | i'm complex |
| 03:25.50 | jasta | lol |
| 03:26.10 | thinair | jasta: the example with the gapping bug is not the panoramio app. Because I have try something similar and I have some problem with the heap... after some 2-3 images load... out of memory.. |
| 03:26.35 | jasta | thinair: the gaping bug i was referring to was with regard to the way they cancel the download |
| 03:26.39 | jasta | i hadn't looked at any other part of it |
| 03:27.17 | jasta | the author of the download example believes that interrupt() somehow breaks a thread out of a wait on I/O. this is false. |
| 03:27.40 | jasta | in fact, interrupt in that context does absolutely nothing at all except set the interrupted flag to eventually be looked at (which they don't ever do) |
| 03:27.47 | jasta | it's completely misleading and wrong |
| 03:28.19 | jasta | the proper approach is to close the socket that you're waiting on from another thread. this will break the waiting thread out. |
| 03:28.30 | jasta | HttpClient does this with HttpMethodBase#abort() |
| 03:30.00 | thinair | I was just believing perhaps the last thread which download the picture from panoramia was not finished and continue to use memory... (I have not the code in front of me.. now)... and the next one which download a picture would have the same problem.. and so on.. until out of memory.. |
| 03:30.26 | jasta | well, it'd take much more than a leaked thread to use up that much memory |
| 03:30.31 | jasta | you'd need to be leaking something big, like the picture itself |
| 03:30.35 | thinair | I believe then, my problem is more related to dalvik and gc for Bitmap... I will continue to make some tests... |
| 03:31.18 | romainguy | thinair: when does your out of memory error occur? |
| 03:34.03 | thinair | I must look again at the code... I just see that before leaving ... |
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| 03:34.32 | romainguy | thinair: I mean, how does it occur when you use the app? |
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| 03:35.31 | thinair | with my app I am downloading some pictures from panoramio... but the size medium... to show them full screen in the device... |
| 03:35.46 | thinair | I change the background image every time with an other picture.. (in my view) |
| 03:35.57 | thinair | after some pictures... I occur... |
| 03:36.32 | romainguy | ok the first thing you should do is look at the heap size in DDMS |
| 03:36.43 | romainguy | and force GCs both on your process and the system process from time to time |
| 03:36.59 | romainguy | if the heap content size does not go down, you have a nice leak |
| 03:37.00 | thinair | I was playing with the heap size in DDMS.. and it increase all the time from picture to picture |
| 03:37.12 | romainguy | thinair: try to force GCs too |
| 03:37.15 | romainguy | DDMS lets you do this |
| 03:37.19 | thinair | every time I make a Bitmap b =... I have pub a System.gc() before.. |
| 03:37.31 | romainguy | you should not do that |
| 03:37.36 | romainguy | and that won't help in your case |
| 03:37.44 | romainguy | do what I just said, try to GC your process *and* the system process |
| 03:37.56 | thinair | ok... it was a try.. so GC directly in DDMS ? right.. |
| 03:38.00 | romainguy | yes |
| 03:38.03 | romainguy | GC your process |
| 03:38.04 | romainguy | then GC system |
| 03:38.07 | romainguy | then GC your process again |
| 03:38.26 | romainguy | (the system process holds onto native references that in turn can hold onto Java objects in your process) |
| 03:38.38 | thinair | ok.. its possible to make a GC process only.. it's the option in DDMS ? |
| 03:38.53 | romainguy | just click on the process in DDMS |
| 03:38.59 | thinair | ok.. |
| 03:38.59 | romainguy | then hit the garbage can button |
| 03:39.28 | gdsx | romainguy: you know what they say... |
| 03:39.38 | romainguy | gdsx: actually I don't |
| 03:39.41 | gdsx | "If Java had true garbage collection, most programs would delete themselves upon execution" |
| 03:40.02 | romainguy | good thing we're not Java then |
| 03:40.20 | gdsx | romainguy: I'll let danfuzz know he needs to implement that feature |
| 03:41.31 | *** join/#android lresende (n=luckbr19@c-67-169-36-7.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
| 03:43.07 | thinair | danfuzz is responsible for the dalvik part ? |
| 03:46.33 | thinair | ok I will try tomorrow... thanks ! I let you know then what was the problem...bye |
| 03:48.13 | *** join/#android muthu_ (n=Android@218.248.24.81) |
| 03:49.01 | muthu_ | eating upma.. yummy |
| 03:50.52 | muthu_ | man booker for aravind adiga |
| 03:51.25 | illusion | hi muthu_ |
| 03:51.58 | muthu_ | hi illusion |
| 03:52.31 | plusminus_ | reduced rendertime of AndNav2 to a tenth :) |
| 03:53.11 | muthu_ | plusminus_: impressive |
| 03:53.23 | plusminus_ | now faster than AndNav1 with GMaps in the bg |
| 03:53.53 | muthu_ | plusminus_: have you put Andnav1 in slideme or andappstore? |
| 03:54.13 | plusminus_ | not yet |
| 03:54.26 | muthu_ | when you put? |
| 03:54.28 | plusminus_ | is it seems not to work on the G1 |
| 03:54.30 | plusminus_ | as |
| 03:54.41 | muthu_ | oh ok |
| 03:54.41 | plusminus_ | erm when I can debug it :'( |
| 03:54.58 | muthu_ | you are not planning for 22? |
| 03:55.10 | plusminus_ | I decided not to put any sensor-relating app on there before having tested it |
| 03:55.14 | plusminus_ | yeah it sucks hard :( |
| 03:55.18 | muthu_ | ok |
| 03:55.27 | muthu_ | i know you have a lotta games ;) |
| 03:55.31 | plusminus_ | I have some games |
| 03:55.34 | plusminus_ | exactly |
| 03:55.34 | muthu_ | how many launching? |
| 03:55.41 | plusminus_ | 2 definitely |
| 03:55.49 | muthu_ | wonderful |
| 03:55.53 | muthu_ | man you are doing it right |
| 03:56.13 | muthu_ | you'll be one of the success stories of android |
| 03:56.22 | muthu_ | which you already are with anddev :) |
| 03:56.49 | plusminus_ | I have 3 other small apps, that I'm not yet sure of if I'll put them on for free |
| 03:56.58 | plusminus_ | or for like 50Cent |
| 03:57.06 | plusminus_ | is slideme up already ? |
| 03:57.06 | muthu_ | 99C |
| 03:57.14 | muthu_ | haven't tried |
| 03:57.19 | muthu_ | andappstore seems to be ready |
| 03:57.54 | illusion | do we need to buy to put our app there? like apple does |
| 03:58.10 | illusion | buy some license or sth |
| 03:58.13 | muthu_ | no, anyone can upload |
| 03:58.20 | plusminus_ | lol someone put and oooooold version of AndNav on andappstore, which will painfully crash because it is not even for sdk 1.0 |
| 03:58.30 | muthu_ | someone? |
| 03:58.36 | plusminus_ | dunno |
| 03:58.47 | muthu_ | hmm |
| 03:59.11 | illusion | cool i havent known bout that :) is it called andappstore? |
| 03:59.34 | umdk1d3 | the question is how many people will install those secondary app stores |
| 03:59.38 | muthu_ | andappstore.com, slideme.org |
| 03:59.53 | illusion | thx |
| 04:00.05 | muthu_ | umdk1d3: a lotz |
| 04:00.15 | muthu_ | if your app is listed in many stores, better |
| 04:02.27 | umdk1d3 | i slightly disagree |
| 04:02.43 | umdk1d3 | think about the audience of those 1.5m phones sold |
| 04:02.57 | *** join/#android unix_infidel (n=blue@unaffiliated/unixinfidel/x-8383745) |
| 04:03.00 | muthu_ | ok, the market is bundled |
| 04:03.05 | umdk1d3 | most of them are joe-sixpack, and prolly wont even realize there are other stores |
| 04:03.05 | muthu_ | so it has a big advantage |
| 04:03.21 | muthu_ | but people will slowly get the hang of it |
| 04:03.29 | muthu_ | and looks for other interesting apps |
| 04:03.32 | muthu_ | its all about choices |
| 04:04.04 | illusion | is that appstore basicly based on the google phone ? or we should download it every desktop than install it to the phone? |
| 04:04.39 | plusminus_ | what category is 'Pipes' ? Is it a puzzle :/ |
| 04:04.53 | umdk1d3 | muthu_: true, choice is good |
| 04:05.08 | muthu_ | illusion: andappstore is a website you visit in your browser |
| 04:05.14 | muthu_ | then download the apk and install |
| 04:05.18 | illusion | yea im on it. |
| 04:05.26 | illusion | oh gotcha |
| 04:05.29 | muthu_ | it will not work now.. on emulator |
| 04:05.34 | muthu_ | you need G1 :( |
| 04:05.36 | illusion | oh thats sad. |
| 04:05.40 | illusion | :( |
| 04:05.47 | muthu_ | pretty sad |
| 04:05.50 | illusion | i cant buy so cant test it too.. |
| 04:05.53 | illusion | can u |
| 04:05.54 | illusion | ? |
| 04:06.09 | muthu_ | market works only with G1 |
| 04:06.11 | illusion | will be release in india? |
| 04:06.20 | muthu_ | it'll be in dec/jan |
| 04:06.30 | illusion | thats nice. |
| 04:06.34 | muthu_ | i'll ask someone to bring from us |
| 04:06.40 | muthu_ | once unlocked phones are available |
| 04:06.40 | illusion | we don have anyyyyyyyyyyy plan for that |
| 04:07.10 | illusion | as u know korea.. even we unlock it, cant use. |
| 04:07.30 | muthu_ | why? |
| 04:07.34 | muthu_ | you don't have gsm? |
| 04:07.42 | illusion | we have sdma |
| 04:07.44 | illusion | cdma |
| 04:07.47 | muthu_ | hmmm |
| 04:07.49 | illusion | but |
| 04:07.56 | illusion | thats different issue |
| 04:08.26 | muthu_ | i start the emu.. went back to it after 10 min.. it crashed |
| 04:08.33 | ttuttle | muthu_: lol |
| 04:08.55 | muthu_ | guess, its protesting |
| 04:09.04 | *** part/#android wastrel (n=wastrel@nylug/member/wastrel) |
| 04:09.24 | unix_infidel | muthu_: different providers have different 3g freqs in india right? |
| 04:09.36 | illusion | korean telecom company locked every single phone... even we cant change our cell phone to other korean company from that i made contract now. |
| 04:09.48 | muthu_ | unix_infidel: there's not 3g now |
| 04:09.58 | muthu_ | expected to be rolled out dec/jan |
| 04:10.33 | illusion | wer sharing 2g/3g now |
| 04:10.44 | illusion | changing it from 2g to 3g |
| 04:10.46 | muthu_ | iphone 3g works on 2g for now |
| 04:11.00 | illusion | i know but we dont even have sim card for 2g |
| 04:11.11 | muthu_ | right, you need gsm |
| 04:11.16 | illusion | its kinda built-in cell phone |
| 04:12.00 | illusion | every information in cell phone and cant transfer to ohter cell phone.. |
| 04:12.10 | illusion | its really closed market in korea. |
| 04:12.36 | illusion | it sucks!! |
| 04:13.02 | muthu_ | closed market sux |
| 04:13.51 | ttuttle | <3 Android. |
| 04:14.13 | muthu_ | ttuttle: you working on any apps? |
| 04:14.14 | ttuttle | I nearly forgot how much fun it is to code when a simple "ant reinstall" updates your app on the phone, and you can watch logs in realtime. |
| 04:14.19 | ttuttle | muthu_: Yeah, I've got a couple ideas. |
| 04:14.25 | ttuttle | muthu_: Just playing around mostly. |
| 04:14.30 | muthu_ | ok |
| 04:15.41 | illusion | muthu_: so what ru doing with android? |
| 04:15.54 | muthu_ | http://mobeegal.in |
| 04:15.59 | muthu_ | big plans |
| 04:16.07 | *** join/#android yakischloba (n=jake@c-24-22-171-214.hsd1.wa.comcast.net) |
| 04:16.38 | illusion | ru planning for android challenge? |
| 04:16.44 | illusion | will be second |
| 04:17.30 | ttuttle | Ooh, I should try for that ;-) |
| 04:17.37 | ttuttle | Maybe I can get some more dreams and or a large pile of money ;-) |
| 04:17.48 | muthu_ | yeah challenge 2 |
| 04:18.13 | muthu_ | who can resist 250k? |
| 04:18.14 | illusion | thats awesome |
| 04:18.24 | ttuttle | would like 250k |
| 04:18.35 | ttuttle | Heck, my parents would like 250k, as it would pay for college with a nice chunk left over. |
| 04:18.43 | muthu_ | yep |
| 04:19.28 | illusion | when should it be adc2? |
| 04:19.36 | muthu_ | 2009 |
| 04:19.38 | ttuttle | When is ADC2, and what are the other prizes? |
| 04:19.48 | illusion | no more specific? |
| 04:19.49 | muthu_ | its along the lines of adc 1 |
| 04:20.01 | muthu_ | another 5m on the line :) |
| 04:20.06 | ttuttle | muthu_: Sweet. |
| 04:20.15 | muthu_ | ttuttle: can't wait :)) |
| 04:20.19 | dmoffett | Maybe they will do one winner takes all! :-) |
| 04:20.23 | illusion | go for it |
| 04:20.28 | muthu_ | dmoffett: oh no |
| 04:20.33 | ttuttle | dmoffett: Nah, I hope not. |
| 04:20.35 | muthu_ | the chances are lim |
| 04:20.37 | muthu_ | slim |
| 04:20.43 | dmoffett | That would make for some fierce competition. |
| 04:20.44 | illusion | all or noth |
| 04:20.45 | muthu_ | 50, then 20 looks good |
| 04:20.52 | ttuttle | dmoffett: I'd rather see a dozen developers get a good prize then one person get all of it. |
| 04:21.05 | muthu_ | this time i'm going for 250 |
| 04:21.23 | muthu_ | nothing less ;) |
| 04:21.52 | muthu_ | guess, adc2 will ask for NEW apps |
| 04:21.57 | ttuttle | muthu_: Good luck. |
| 04:22.03 | dmoffett | It would be more fun to go for all the winnings. :-) |
| 04:22.04 | muthu_ | ttuttle: thx, you too |
| 04:22.09 | illusion | idea makes 250k |
| 04:22.22 | ttuttle | would be happy to beta test apps, and to let others beta test his (provided they're not working on the same sort of app). |
| 04:22.41 | muthu_ | ttuttle: i'll send you an apk, this weekend |
| 04:22.46 | dmoffett | Of course based on past performance I would be doing the congratulating. :-) |
| 04:22.48 | muthu_ | if you can test that on G1, pls |
| 04:22.53 | ttuttle | muthu_: Sure. |
| 04:22.58 | muthu_ | ttuttle: thx |
| 04:23.25 | muthu_ | dmoffett: lol |
| 04:23.56 | muthu_ | plans to form a 5 member team for adc2 |
| 04:24.19 | muthu_ | and then kickass with kickass app |
| 04:24.38 | illusion | thats alot. i saw the adc1 winners teams. but there was maximum 4 ppl |
| 04:24.56 | muthu_ | look at locale.. its a 5 member team |
| 04:24.59 | muthu_ | look at gocart |
| 04:25.03 | muthu_ | look at cookingcapsules |
| 04:25.06 | muthu_ | look at tunewiki |
| 04:25.09 | muthu_ | its all big teams |
| 04:25.16 | illusion | great |
| 04:25.22 | ttuttle | Sure. Programming's easier in groups. |
| 04:25.26 | muthu_ | yep |
| 04:25.27 | ttuttle | Especially small ones. |
| 04:25.42 | muthu_ | i believe in collaboration |
| 04:25.50 | muthu_ | that's the first step to success |
| 04:26.11 | illusion | muthu_: thats the hardest part too. |
| 04:26.17 | muthu_ | agree |
| 04:26.23 | *** join/#android jasta (n=jasta@75-165-27-245.tukw.qwest.net) |
| 04:26.44 | muthu_ | if you are doing it alone, your chances are slim |
| 04:27.01 | muthu_ | a team ensures high success rate |
| 04:27.14 | illusion | but someone good at this have 250k alone!! |
| 04:27.29 | muthu_ | there are a few |
| 04:27.33 | illusion | thats the point. |
| 04:27.38 | illusion | yep |
| 04:27.45 | muthu_ | that's pretty rare |
| 04:28.03 | muthu_ | adc 2 will have to bigger and bolder |
| 04:28.17 | muthu_ | would be tough this time |
| 04:28.27 | muthu_ | since its going to be all execution, not just ideas |
| 04:28.54 | ttuttle | Is there a list of all ADC1 entries, so I can make sure nobody's tried and failed at my idea? |
| 04:29.16 | muthu_ | ttuttle: that list never came |
| 04:29.24 | illusion | u can find it on the web. |
| 04:29.30 | illusion | winners list |
| 04:29.33 | muthu_ | top 50 is there in android.com |
| 04:30.13 | illusion | even same idea different intefaces and results! |
| 04:31.43 | muthu_ | gocart, and compare everywhere |
| 04:34.28 | plusminus_ | First game is up: http://slideme.org/ |
| 04:35.22 | ttuttle | plusminus_: Hold on, does that "developer" icon show a guy with a TIE?! |
| 04:35.56 | plusminus_ | ? |
| 04:36.01 | ttuttle | plusminus_: on slideme.org |
| 04:36.19 | muthu_ | plusminus_: congrats! |
| 04:36.43 | plusminus_ | ttuttle: lol, you are right :D |
| 04:36.46 | plusminus_ | muthu_: thx |
| 04:37.05 | muthu_ | ttuttle: lol |
| 04:37.11 | muthu_ | weird developer |
| 04:37.28 | plusminus_ | maybe its a looong beard :) |
| 04:38.57 | languish | it's also grey |
| 04:39.08 | languish | a black suit wearing grey alien dev |
| 04:39.22 | languish | they are among us |
| 04:39.36 | languish | (cue x-files theme music) |
| 04:43.39 | umdk1d3 | hey google peeps, anybody around tonight with a g1 with the amazon music store? |
| 04:43.51 | dmoffett | romainguy: When is that white paper coming out that discusses best practices for building portrait and landscape layouts on Android? |
| 04:44.35 | umdk1d3 | pm works best i suppose |
| 04:45.25 | romainguy | what white paper? |
| 04:45.41 | jasta | fuck |
| 04:45.42 | dmoffett | wishful thinking I guess. :-) |
| 04:45.47 | jasta | my friend at t-mobile is getting his phone tomorrow |
| 04:45.57 | muthu_ | joot |
| 04:46.06 | muthu_ | its already shipping |
| 04:48.03 | plusminus_ | #2 http://slideme.org/content/andsudoku |
| 04:49.41 | ttuttle | jasta: Nice. |
| 04:50.00 | ttuttle | jasta: Are they shipping to customers now, or is he getting it early 'cause he works for T-Mo? |
| 04:50.16 | dmoffett | romainguy: Do you generally recommend doing a separate landscape and portrait layouts? |
| 04:50.37 | ttuttle | dmoffett: (i'm not romainguy, but the answer is likely yes.) |
| 04:50.44 | ttuttle | dmoffett: (unless your layout is so simple that it should be identical) |
| 04:50.52 | plusminus_ | muthu_: Any idea where to enter Payment-Information to SlideMe ? |
| 04:51.02 | dmoffett | ttuttle: thank you. |
| 04:51.06 | muthu_ | plusminus_: haven't tried |
| 04:51.19 | muthu_ | should be in your account |
| 04:51.22 | romainguy | dmoffett: it really depends on your layout :) |
| 04:51.37 | romainguy | but for instance the Home screen's layout files in landscape and portrait are almost the same |
| 04:51.45 | romainguy | I just changed the spacings, paddings, etc. |
| 04:51.46 | romainguy | small details |
| 04:51.48 | plusminus_ | muthu_: there is just a (paypal)donate-mail to be entered (optional) |
| 04:51.56 | muthu_ | that should be it |
| 04:52.00 | muthu_ | oh yeah |
| 04:52.18 | muthu_ | guess slidme uses paypal |
| 04:53.24 | dmoffett | romainguy: thank you. |
| 04:53.39 | plusminus_ | hm ok I though andappstore was using paypal and slideme sth different... |
| 04:53.42 | muthu_ | does G1 throw up a shocker for each permissions in manifest? |
| 04:53.55 | plusminus_ | I should contact Shane then... |
| 04:54.00 | muthu_ | right |
| 04:54.14 | muthu_ | andappstore, doesn't deal with payments afaik |
| 04:54.17 | ttuttle | muthu_: Not really, just a list with little exclamation points for the scary ones. |
| 04:54.29 | muthu_ | oh ok |
| 04:54.44 | muthu_ | anyways, removing all unwanted permissions |
| 04:54.50 | ttuttle | muthu_: Yeah, good idea. |
| 04:54.53 | muthu_ | no use to be greedy with permissions |
| 05:02.49 | plusminus_ | omg, everyone seems to have a G1 already... it sucks hard :( |
| 05:03.01 | muthu_ | everyone except devs |
| 05:03.11 | plusminus_ | most |
| 05:03.27 | plusminus_ | jeff sharkey got even his iTunes-Remote up :( |
| 05:03.33 | muthu_ | haha |
| 05:03.54 | muthu_ | jeff sharkey is the poster boy of android :) |
| 05:04.00 | plusminus_ | yeah |
| 05:04.13 | romainguy | there's a bunch of reviews of G1 online |
| 05:04.31 | plusminus_ | thats what I meant with 'everyone' :( |
| 05:04.43 | plusminus_ | I mean, he can up his leisure-time apps and we don't even know the page to upload them to the market :( |
| 05:04.51 | romainguy | it's funny, some people love the keyboard, other hate it |
| 05:04.57 | romainguy | some people love the camera, other hate it |
| 05:05.00 | romainguy | bah :) |
| 05:05.11 | plusminus_ | romainguy as usual |
| 05:05.19 | plusminus_ | hate it or love it ;) |
| 05:05.22 | *** join/#android haavi (n=blahhah@c83-254-67-155.bredband.comhem.se) |
| 05:05.36 | romainguy | I just wished they stopped saying "iPhone" every two words |
| 05:05.43 | muthu_ | hehe |
| 05:05.53 | muthu_ | iphone comparsion will never die |
| 05:05.56 | umdk1d3 | waaat? who said i could just "upload" apps |
| 05:06.08 | umdk1d3 | im waiting for the market announcement just like everyone else :P |
| 05:06.23 | plusminus_ | everyone is waiting, except some :) |
| 05:06.35 | plusminus_ | ...privileged ones |
| 05:07.09 | romainguy | ahaha |
| 05:07.09 | plusminus_ | I'll get some sleep, so my G1 is one day closer :) |
| 05:07.12 | dmoffett | So the market place will have a few invited developers and some google apps? |
| 05:07.14 | romainguy | David Poguer about our software |
| 05:07.15 | romainguy | "In any case, it?s polished enough to give Windows Mobile an inferiority complex the size of Australia" |
| 05:07.29 | plusminus_ | :-D |
| 05:07.45 | plusminus_ | romainguy grats :) |
| 05:07.45 | muthu_ | android is the best software platform out there, right now. |
| 05:08.13 | muthu_ | if only we can get source ;) |
| 05:08.16 | plusminus_ | n8 guys |
| 05:08.25 | muthu_ | nite plusminus_ |
| 05:08.32 | ttuttle | muthu_: It's in the works, don't worry. |
| 05:08.47 | ttuttle | muthu_: The G1 was clearly at the top of the to-do list -) |
| 05:08.49 | ttuttle | * ;-) |
| 05:08.59 | muthu_ | ttuttle: yep |
| 05:09.36 | muthu_ | one thing android taught me.. don't mess with UI's |
| 05:09.43 | ttuttle | muthu_: heh |
| 05:09.43 | languish | The new Engadget review of the G1 isn't so heartening |
| 05:09.44 | languish | http://www.engadget.com/2008/10/16/t-mobile-g1-review-part-1-hardware/ |
| 05:09.47 | ttuttle | Wow, Engadget's got a review. |
| 05:09.50 | ttuttle | Just noticed it. |
| 05:10.12 | languish | They key items for a "phone" they touch on, doesn't make it sound like a contender |
| 05:10.14 | languish | *sigh* |
| 05:10.41 | umdk1d3 | just after midnight rofl |
| 05:10.48 | muthu_ | languish: nice |
| 05:10.54 | umdk1d3 | i wonder if there was something that said they couldnt release reviews until a specific date |
| 05:10.57 | languish | yep, they've had it ready for the moment the NDA is lifted |
| 05:11.13 | languish | ahh crap, forgot about woot |
| 05:11.40 | umdk1d3 | wow "11 hours and 21 minutes of life running the media player on shuffle while connected to a 3G network" |
| 05:12.42 | muthu_ | market, im, gmail, messaging |
| 05:12.47 | romainguy | yeah teh battery life is really nice when you don't abuse the sensors (like GPS :)) |
| 05:15.01 | muthu_ | ha, youtube |
| 05:15.17 | ttuttle | Damn. |
| 05:15.24 | *** join/#android feig_ (n=ejf3@129.sub-70-196-196.myvzw.com) |
| 05:15.31 | ttuttle | should have implemented a long-press menu with a "Delete alarm" option in Alarm Clock. |
| 05:15.36 | ttuttle | Engadget doesn't like the way I did it. |
| 05:16.07 | romainguy | ttuttle: I hate you for this every time I try to delete an alarm :) |
| 05:16.17 | muthu_ | "The G1 isn't going to blow anyone's mind right out of the gate." |
| 05:17.31 | romainguy | "with the high quality wallpaper images the resolution and clarity is really shown off well" |
| 05:17.34 | romainguy | that's all I'm saying :)) |
| 05:18.13 | muthu_ | your wallpapers are the highlights :) |
| 05:20.32 | ttuttle | romainguy: Would you like a patch? |
| 05:20.35 | languish | They complain about spotty 3G connectivity and poor gps connectivity |
| 05:20.36 | languish | bleh |
| 05:20.49 | romainguy | which apparently depends on where you are |
| 05:20.54 | languish | yep |
| 05:20.56 | romainguy | both work great in San Francisco :) |
| 05:21.15 | languish | yeah, it doesn't help the g1 though that android is lambasting it |
| 05:21.20 | languish | err |
| 05:21.26 | languish | that engadget is lambasting it |
| 05:21.35 | *** join/#android exmac (n=exmac@exman2.mizi.com) |
| 05:21.37 | ttuttle | doesn't care... |
| 05:21.39 | ttuttle | <3 his G1. |
| 05:21.40 | romainguy | yeah they don't like us :) |
| 05:21.49 | romainguy | I can bet you that Wired will hate it too |
| 05:22.03 | languish | yeah I saw wireds take on it before, yeesh |
| 05:22.16 | languish | also, I live in NYC. I'm hoping for a better experience than engadget had |
| 05:22.47 | languish | but them, I also know tmo isn't the best deal for indoor connectivity |
| 05:22.59 | dmoffett | It seems they are fans of that other phone. :-( |
| 05:23.15 | languish | well, they *are* style whores |
| 05:23.28 | illusion | hey guys, what should i put into xml android:orientation="vertical" then other to make wide-view? |
| 05:26.12 | illusion | oh it was "horizontal".. |
| 05:26.24 | languish | Gonna have to get a spotlight belt buckle for poorly illuminated camera shots with the g1 |
| 05:26.25 | languish | lulz |
| 05:28.50 | umdk1d3 | holy crap reviews crawling out of the woodwork |
| 05:30.47 | romainguy | zdnet has a very extensive and interesting review |
| 05:33.50 | languish | does the contact management on the g1 have fields for a) more than 1 alternate phone #, b) addresse(s) c) full name & nickname ? |
| 05:34.09 | romainguy | I don't remember about nickname but yes to the other questions |
| 05:34.16 | romainguy | you can try it out in the emulator |
| 05:35.31 | languish | nod. I've avoided getting used to the emu mostly so I don't get attached to a method of use that may differ on the phone itself |
| 05:36.37 | languish | depending on how I like the g1, I'll be using it for 6 to 8 months, or until an alternative android device with features I prefer comes along. (the lack of flash for the camera really annoys me as it's from HTC and they have it on the touch pro) |
| 05:37.11 | languish | I'm just hoping what comes next doesn't drop features from the g1, like the compass |
| 05:37.45 | muthu_ | it would be a mix and match |
| 05:38.11 | languish | a mix and match of the better features without loss of key features is my hope |
| 05:38.40 | languish | but the industry always seems to manage to make assinine choices in design, leaving one key item out to entice upgrading |
| 05:39.14 | muthu_ | yep |
| 05:41.31 | languish | hmm |
| 05:42.20 | languish | My wife's sim card is older than t-mobile in the USA itself. It's still either an omnipoint or voicestream sim card. Could this be a problem for use with the g1? transferring her contacts and whatnot... |
| 05:43.11 | languish | I'be found some newer devices require a more recent sim card version |
| 05:48.32 | muthu_ | notifications is the best part, according to engadget |
| 05:51.03 | dmoffett | Really it is up to the Google developers and third party developers to make Android a success. Android has some abilities that are not available on the other comparable phones. in a long race not a sprint. |
| 05:51.18 | languish | I'm rather suprised they didn't go the anti-cloud google knows everything about you tinhat angle |
| 05:51.44 | languish | The writing looks like it was heading there, but it got cut |
| 05:52.09 | muthu_ | we can't emphasize enough: the |
| 05:52.09 | muthu_ | pervasive nature of your Google account throughout Android is an |
| 05:52.09 | muthu_ | absolute boon, |
| 05:52.40 | languish | nod, plusses of the benefits in modern use outweight the negatives |
| 05:53.16 | languish | though it doesn't change the dangers of dumb terminal computing |
| 05:53.49 | languish | I've already had a pisseed off nutcase at tmo mess with me a few years ago |
| 05:53.59 | muthu_ | Android's Gmail client is, for lack of a better word, amazing. |
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| 05:58.20 | languish | yeah, I'm looking forward to it |
| 05:58.34 | languish | also looking forward to eventually being able to switch bewteen accounts |
| 05:58.43 | languish | work/home/hobby |
| 06:00.26 | muthu_ | Is AmazonMP3 the G1's killer app? Nah, Android itself is the G1's killer |
| 06:00.27 | muthu_ | app, |
| 06:01.08 | _avatar | likes the AmazonMP3 app, but is biased ;) |
| 06:02.20 | _avatar | and yeah, the gmail app is killer |
| 06:06.13 | muthu_ | Perhaps the coolest feature here, though, is the security warning for |
| 06:06.13 | muthu_ | each app you download. |
| 06:06.41 | illusion | can i make my app to stay wide-view always whether the phone vertical or horizontal? ive tried landscape orient but its has some warning and doesnt work. |
| 06:07.05 | muthu_ | you can control your layout however you want |
| 06:07.08 | illusion | also tried android:orientation="horizontal" with the layout |
| 06:07.32 | illusion | how? |
| 06:07.35 | muthu_ | override onConfigurationChange |
| 06:07.40 | muthu_ | and then adjust your layout |
| 06:07.52 | illusion | oh thx ill try |
| 06:08.45 | muthu_ | you're still buying into one of the most |
| 06:08.45 | muthu_ | exiting developments in the mobile world in recent memory. |
| 06:09.28 | muthu_ | nice engadget review |
| 06:10.04 | Lenolium | shakes his fist at the UPS "Billing Information Received" page |
| 06:24.53 | languish | o.O |
| 06:25.52 | muthu_ | 0.o |
| 06:27.26 | illusion | muthu_: i tried my config.orientation = Configuration.ORIENTATION_LANDSCAPE; but still same |
| 06:27.51 | muthu_ | illusion: its upto you to draw layouts |
| 06:27.55 | muthu_ | as you want |
| 06:28.05 | muthu_ | there's no auto layout capabilities |
| 06:28.09 | illusion | i made it also landscape orientation |
| 06:28.20 | muthu_ | yeah, now adjust your views |
| 06:28.32 | muthu_ | if you don't provide landscape layouts |
| 06:28.37 | muthu_ | it will still use portrait ones |
| 06:29.07 | illusion | i has just only landscape layout now |
| 06:29.19 | illusion | and adjusted. |
| 06:29.50 | muthu_ | res/layout will be used for portrait |
| 06:29.57 | muthu_ | res/layout-land for landscape |
| 06:30.07 | illusion | what i want is when the phone is vetically set, wanna show the screen as landscape. |
| 06:30.22 | muthu_ | right, then add a layout file in res/layout-land directory |
| 06:30.23 | illusion | oh |
| 06:30.28 | illusion | thxthx |
| 06:30.30 | muthu_ | you can have myview.xml |
| 06:30.32 | illusion | its hard man. |
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| 06:30.44 | muthu_ | yeah, its easy once you get in |
| 06:31.02 | muthu_ | you can have different config files for each configurations |
| 06:31.05 | muthu_ | in its own directories |
| 06:31.11 | muthu_ | and android auto picks them if available |
| 06:31.24 | illusion | oh .. got it. will try again |
| 06:32.30 | DarkriftX | anyone know some sites with android downloads besides helloandroid? |
| 06:37.55 | muthu_ | andappstore.com slideme.org anddev.org |
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| 06:40.27 | jasta | speaking of which, i need to think of a design for my player screen in landscape mode |
| 06:40.35 | jasta | thinking like artwork in the middle and controls on the left and right |
| 06:40.40 | jasta | but not sure specifically |
| 06:41.49 | DarkriftX | nice, thx |
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| 06:51.47 | illusion | muthu_: i made landscape layout then when onCreate function calls setContentView i tossed landscape layout but then application crashed. |
| 06:52.10 | muthu_ | illusion: have the same name |
| 06:52.16 | muthu_ | and then pass it to setcontentview |
| 06:52.21 | muthu_ | the switch will happen auto |
| 06:52.35 | illusion | ? i supposed to be the filename huh? |
| 06:52.41 | illusion | it |
| 06:52.57 | muthu_ | yeah, it will pick the right file |
| 06:52.59 | illusion | oh.. |
| 06:53.06 | muthu_ | based on the current device configuration |
| 06:53.08 | illusion | same name.. |
| 06:53.11 | muthu_ | right |
| 06:53.11 | illusion | cool! |
| 06:53.19 | muthu_ | layout/myview.xml |
| 06:53.23 | muthu_ | layout-land/myview.xml |
| 06:54.27 | illusion | oh i picks vertical one... what should i do with onConfigurationChanged function? |
| 06:54.30 | illusion | it |
| 06:54.35 | illusion | it picks vertical one. |
| 06:54.42 | muthu_ | don't do anything |
| 06:54.43 | languish | how does the g1/android handle management of installed apps? does it allow the app to remove itself when you delete/uninstall? or does the os keep track of every element an app installs for later uninstallation? |
| 06:54.59 | illusion | public void onConfigurationChanged(Configuration newConfig) |
| 06:54.59 | illusion | <PROTECTED> |
| 06:54.59 | illusion | <PROTECTED> |
| 06:54.59 | illusion | <PROTECTED> |
| 06:54.59 | illusion | <PROTECTED> |
| 06:55.03 | illusion | i did like this |
| 06:55.09 | illusion | dont do?; |
| 06:55.15 | muthu_ | you can do that if you want additonal stuff |
| 06:55.22 | muthu_ | but if you are only flipping layouts |
| 06:55.27 | muthu_ | android automatically does it |
| 06:55.37 | muthu_ | setContentView will take care |
| 06:56.09 | muthu_ | languish: guess, when you delete it uninstalls |
| 06:56.12 | illusion | oh.. u misunderstood. |
| 06:57.03 | illusion | i wanna do as vertical cell phone position with landscape mode which means the string gonna be shown as 90 degree of normal one. |
| 06:57.45 | illusion | but thx though i didnt know bout layout-land one |
| 06:58.02 | illusion | do u have any idea with my question? |
| 06:58.11 | muthu_ | vertical layout with landscape.. |
| 06:58.28 | muthu_ | you want a custom layout? |
| 06:58.37 | illusion | kinda |
| 06:58.45 | muthu_ | yeah, then put it in your layout |
| 06:58.50 | muthu_ | in layout-land folder |
| 06:58.51 | illusion | i mean |
| 06:59.20 | muthu_ | oh, only the strings |
| 06:59.32 | muthu_ | ok.. you want the text to be vertical |
| 07:00.00 | muthu_ | then you'll have to position the textview to be vertical |
| 07:00.13 | illusion | whether it vertical or horizontal i wanna show same layout with same width and height. if one rotates, it will not be changed. |
| 07:00.26 | illusion | no no whole screen |
| 07:00.28 | muthu_ | yeah |
| 07:00.31 | illusion | i just test with strings |
| 07:00.34 | muthu_ | easy |
| 07:00.37 | illusion | but now |
| 07:00.38 | muthu_ | have two xml files |
| 07:00.47 | muthu_ | and define your views however you want |
| 07:01.08 | illusion | oh so whole two same vertical layouts? |
| 07:01.10 | muthu_ | make sure inside your landscape xml.. |
| 07:01.15 | muthu_ | you change to whatever |
| 07:01.46 | muthu_ | are you not changing the content of your layout-land/myview.xml? |
| 07:01.53 | muthu_ | dont put the same xml content |
| 07:01.58 | illusion | no |
| 07:01.58 | muthu_ | then it will show the same |
| 07:02.20 | muthu_ | inside the layout xml.. change your views to reflect what you want |
| 07:03.28 | umdk1d3 | illusion: you mean you want to force your users to always see a landscape or portrait view? |
| 07:03.33 | umdk1d3 | regardless of keyboard status? |
| 07:03.56 | illusion | landscape view |
| 07:04.08 | umdk1d3 | you can force an orientation using <activity ... android:screenOrientation="landscape" ... |
| 07:04.12 | illusion | regardless orientation |
| 07:04.13 | umdk1d3 | in your manifest |
| 07:04.23 | umdk1d3 | that way it will never show portrait view |
| 07:04.37 | muthu_ | yeah, but he wants the view to adjust |
| 07:05.40 | illusion | oh umdk1d3 its what i want; |
| 07:05.51 | illusion | thx both |
| 07:06.11 | muthu_ | ha, finally :) |
| 07:06.14 | illusion | what i wanted to do was it. |
| 07:06.16 | illusion | and also |
| 07:06.30 | illusion | i got new skills cause of u muthu!! |
| 07:06.37 | muthu_ | hehe |
| 07:06.40 | muthu_ | hang in here more |
| 07:06.44 | illusion | its so nice to do irc with u guys. haha |
| 07:06.46 | muthu_ | umdk1d3: will make you an expert ;) |
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| 07:07.03 | illusion | sweet |
| 07:20.39 | muthu_ | once a notification is read, does it auto clear? |
| 07:20.44 | muthu_ | or do we have to do it manually? |
| 07:20.55 | umdk1d3 | there is a persistant flag, otherwise it autoclears |
| 07:20.59 | romainguy | you have to clear it |
| 07:21.06 | muthu_ | how to clear? |
| 07:21.22 | romainguy | read the doc :) |
| 07:21.39 | muthu_ | the docs are not clear :) |
| 07:22.02 | umdk1d3 | NotificationManager.cancel(yourId) |
| 07:22.10 | muthu_ | is that it? |
| 07:22.13 | umdk1d3 | yes |
| 07:22.18 | muthu_ | man, android is koolio |
| 07:22.27 | umdk1d3 | shakes head in bewilderment |
| 07:22.30 | muthu_ | hehe |
| 07:22.36 | romainguy | umdk1d3: muthu is lazy :) |
| 07:22.45 | muthu_ | yep |
| 07:22.55 | muthu_ | i'm using zero icons in my app |
| 07:23.00 | umdk1d3 | shudder |
| 07:23.02 | muthu_ | all borrowed from android |
| 07:23.12 | umdk1d3 | i hate apps that dont have icons for their menus |
| 07:23.24 | muthu_ | yeah, android has tons |
| 07:23.25 | umdk1d3 | its so easy to just borrow something remotely relateed from android.R |
| 07:23.32 | muthu_ | yep |
| 07:24.00 | umdk1d3 | there was some discussion earlier about the "legality" of pulling non-public icons from other preloaded packages |
| 07:24.16 | muthu_ | using only android.R |
| 07:26.00 | languish | android's license should push unfettered freely-licensed use of all icons that are not trademarked logos |
| 07:26.18 | muthu_ | why android doesn't clear notification, when the user clicks on it.. is another mystery |
| 07:26.41 | umdk1d3 | languish: i think the issue at this point is that they are packaged up, and getting them out involves unpacking their apks, which kinda goes against sdk license |
| 07:26.46 | languish | sometimes an icon one company uses just makes so much sense to use in some other companys application, but you can't |
| 07:26.48 | umdk1d3 | that might be cleared up when platform is released, idk |
| 07:27.06 | languish | 'eh screenshot copy, paste |
| 07:27.10 | languish | :| |
| 07:27.27 | umdk1d3 | isnt there alpha channel with some of em tho? |
| 07:27.39 | languish | clueless |
| 07:27.47 | umdk1d3 | also, rumor has it there is a gorgous icon creation guide that will hopefully be released soon |
| 07:28.00 | languish | it's just an issue that's pissed me off in the past on other devices/products |
| 07:28.07 | languish | as an end-user |
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| 07:36.40 | umdk1d3 | ohbtw dont forget to give android some digg love with all the reviews coming out |
| 07:36.54 | umdk1d3 | http://digg.com/search?s=android&submit=Search§ion=all&type=both&area=all&sort=new |
| 07:37.48 | android123 | hi |
| 07:38.00 | umdk1d3 | heythere :) |
| 07:38.24 | muthu_ | hi |
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| 07:41.52 | muthu_ | what's the broadcast, when user clicks notifcations? |
| 07:42.00 | muthu_ | want to cancel it, right after click |
| 07:42.36 | romainguy | it broadcasts whatever intent you set on the notification |
| 07:42.55 | muthu_ | right, but don't to want to handle in the activity |
| 07:43.08 | romainguy | then create a BroadcastReceiver |
| 07:43.15 | muthu_ | filter? |
| 07:43.28 | muthu_ | arghghh |
| 07:43.49 | muthu_ | doesn't the system broadcast, notificationclick intent or something |
| 07:43.55 | romainguy | I just told you |
| 07:43.59 | romainguy | it broadcasts the intent you want |
| 07:44.12 | muthu_ | hmm |
| 07:44.46 | umdk1d3 | PendingIntent |
| 07:45.03 | umdk1d3 | you could send a BroadcastIntent in whatever handles the pending intent i guess |
| 07:45.09 | muthu_ | oh right |
| 07:45.29 | muthu_ | register a reciever for the pending intent on top of the activity |
| 07:45.30 | muthu_ | cool |
| 07:48.33 | muthu_ | writes the first receiver |
| 07:48.42 | muthu_ | copy the photostream stuff |
| 07:49.28 | languish | hrm |
| 07:50.02 | android123 | anyone working on android porting |
| 07:50.50 | languish | does the g1 browser have encrypted proxy connection capability? |
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| 07:51.33 | languish | I'd prefer not to have tmobile watching some of my business interaction, including urls (which ssl doesn't hide) |
| 07:51.42 | languish | https rather |
| 07:51.44 | languish | but yeah.. |
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| 07:59.15 | umdk1d3 | roooooofl |
| 07:59.22 | umdk1d3 | muthu_: review of cooking capsules |
| 07:59.25 | umdk1d3 | "Somehow the pot with steamed brocolli had something flammable on it and I turned around and FLAMES EVERYWHERE" |
| 07:59.33 | muthu_ | haha |
| 07:59.44 | muthu_ | where's the review? |
| 07:59.47 | umdk1d3 | you *did* put an eula on that right? :P |
| 07:59.53 | muthu_ | lol |
| 07:59.55 | umdk1d3 | http://phandroid.com/2008/10/16/application-review-cooking-capsules/ |
| 08:00.25 | muthu_ | hope no one drops their G1 in the pot ;) |
| 08:01.55 | languish | oh man |
| 08:02.01 | languish | my wife's gonna love that app |
| 08:02.13 | DarkriftX | what do you guys think about an android download site that actually offers downloads? |
| 08:02.15 | languish | any little device that has cooking instructions, she's there |
| 08:02.44 | languish | DarkriftX, they don't exist yet? |
| 08:02.50 | DarkriftX | barely |
| 08:03.03 | DarkriftX | i have to do a LOT of searching to find stuff.... |
| 08:03.08 | languish | are you talking about just apps, or? |
| 08:03.15 | DarkriftX | i started one, just wanted opinions on the idea |
| 08:03.18 | DarkriftX | apps, games etc |
| 08:03.55 | languish | as I see it, there're gonna be plenty. equivalent to freeware download sites |
| 08:03.56 | DarkriftX | soem sites offer a couple downloads but you have to hit like 10 sites to get any selection, so ive been scouring and gathering whatever i can to serve in one location |
| 08:04.16 | languish | the more the merrier |
| 08:04.25 | languish | hopefully yours is the one everyone will love, right? |
| 08:04.31 | DarkriftX | im hoping |
| 08:04.33 | languish | :) |
| 08:04.45 | DarkriftX | from what i can tell, i already have more choice then all the others ive found |
| 08:05.14 | languish | i suggest... |
| 08:05.35 | languish | you dev an app, that you put in the android store... that lets users browse your selection |
| 08:05.40 | languish | :| |
| 08:05.48 | languish | y helo redundancy that makes sense |
| 08:05.54 | DarkriftX | im listed in about 160th place for "android downloads" but the 159 sites before me have almost nothing. |
| 08:06.06 | DarkriftX | i dont code very well, but i like choice when it comes to apps |
| 08:06.17 | languish | ok, since you haven't spammed it, which I appreciate |
| 08:06.28 | languish | what site is it, since obviously you'd like to get to that |
| 08:06.36 | DarkriftX | i spent hours trying to find decent stuff to try in the emulator and someone in here told me to try helloandroid, which has more then any other site i found |
| 08:07.01 | DarkriftX | heh, spamming a channel with 108 users wont help me at all, im more worried about what you guys think of the idea then my site |
| 08:07.09 | languish | I also suggest a newegg.coms style user review option |
| 08:07.11 | languish | and rating |
| 08:07.23 | languish | ah |
| 08:07.31 | languish | the domain with a dash in it is likely doomed |
| 08:07.36 | languish | :( |
| 08:07.44 | DarkriftX | nah, dashes are better in search engines |
| 08:07.49 | umdk1d3 | o.o interesting, there is a myspace app on the side of the g1 box |
| 08:07.58 | languish | hahaha |
| 08:07.59 | umdk1d3 | http://phandroid.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/10/cimg06111.jpg |
| 08:08.22 | languish | that makes sense, but is scary |
| 08:08.22 | romainguy | there's also my photo ^^ |
| 08:08.31 | languish | romainguy, which? |
| 08:08.48 | languish | the one to the left of the myspace? |
| 08:08.53 | romainguy | no, at the bottom |
| 08:08.54 | romainguy | the sunset |
| 08:09.03 | languish | ahh |
| 08:09.09 | languish | right, someone mentioned your backgrounds |
| 08:09.13 | languish | cool :) |
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| 08:11.30 | languish | DarkriftX, I know you have a navigation menu on the left, but.. the bar where it says "home" i suggest you put links there too |
| 08:11.47 | languish | i instinctively looked for that first |
| 08:12.07 | languish | links/buttons |
| 08:12.08 | muthu_ | nice package |
| 08:13.42 | languish | DarkriftX, also.. you don't have links in the downloads section descriptions, back to the websites of the original developers. |
| 08:13.47 | languish | I would like to see that |
| 08:13.49 | DarkriftX | languish, that is the breadcrumbs |
| 08:13.54 | DarkriftX | there is a nav at very top also |
| 08:14.58 | DarkriftX | languish, i dont like my download component, but when i get it all fixed, it will have better descriptions, author links and screenshots |
| 08:15.09 | DarkriftX | right now im working on getting the most selection available |
| 08:15.22 | languish | DarkriftX, yeahm I saw it after. (the top menu). It scrolled off the screen on the home page when I was looking at content. |
| 08:15.37 | languish | The title image is so large, it makes the home screen top nav menu easy to miss |
| 08:15.53 | DarkriftX | yeah |
| 08:16.48 | languish | just making my observations, sorry :) |
| 08:17.03 | DarkriftX | no prob, thats what im looking for |
| 08:18.29 | languish | DarkriftX, on the device info.. |
| 08:18.30 | languish | Storage: 1gb built in with MicroSD slot for expansion |
| 08:18.33 | languish | is not correct |
| 08:18.57 | languish | it comes with a 1 gig microSD card. that's not 1gig built in |
| 08:19.13 | DarkriftX | ahhh, got that from tmobile site :S |
| 08:19.16 | languish | haha |
| 08:19.19 | DarkriftX | lol |
| 08:19.25 | DarkriftX | guess i shouldnt trust them |
| 08:19.27 | languish | yeah, even in the manual and other places, lots of inaccuracies |
| 08:19.45 | languish | like calling the slot an "SD" slot, without mentioning it's microSD |
| 08:19.53 | DarkriftX | ouch |
| 08:19.55 | languish | a lot of people are going to be confused by that |
| 08:20.06 | languish | and it's typical t-mobile |
| 08:20.07 | DarkriftX | i feel for the poor ppl that purchase huge sd cards from no name companies after reading that |
| 08:20.15 | languish | yep |
| 08:21.05 | DarkriftX | Storage: MicroSD slot for expansion with 1gb MicroSD card included <--- better? |
| 08:21.16 | languish | yessir |
| 08:24.10 | DarkriftX | im hoping to make it more of a "user submitted" download site, and i set the forum up for that purpose |
| 08:24.28 | DarkriftX | i want members to submit new downloads, they will get checked and added to the downloads after |
| 08:24.48 | languish | ah |
| 08:25.00 | languish | that much isn't obvious from what I see |
| 08:25.02 | DarkriftX | i integrated forum into site so it only needs 1 login for both |
| 08:25.32 | languish | "submit app/game" button would be good |
| 08:25.55 | DarkriftX | good idea... ill make a page with information and a link to the forum |
| 08:27.08 | languish | make a honkin big button where the "who's online" box is on the front page |
| 08:27.58 | languish | "Submit/Add your app/game" |
| 08:28.33 | DarkriftX | thats doable |
| 08:53.12 | sujith | hey anyone working on android porting? |
| 08:55.40 | DarkriftX | go look now languish |
| 08:56.28 | sujith | i just wanna ask one question that if a hardware which already supports linux kernel, and if we apply the latest patch to it, will it work fine? |
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| 08:57.33 | sujith | what are the things that we should keep in mind while applying the patch ? |
| 08:58.47 | umdk1d3 | sujith: you prolly want to make sure that you start with the same base kernel version |
| 08:58.54 | umdk1d3 | vanilla, that is, from kernel.org |
| 08:59.09 | umdk1d3 | im not sure, but there should be an entire git tree fork for android |
| 08:59.32 | umdk1d3 | sujith: http://git.android.com/ |
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| 09:00.00 | umdk1d3 | remember that alot of those patches are just adding drivers |
| 09:00.10 | umdk1d3 | specifically the framebuffer driver |
| 09:00.27 | umdk1d3 | and iirc, if that framebuffer isnt loaded then the rest of the binary android stack isnt happy |
| 09:00.39 | muthu_ | is it a good idea to start an activity from a receiver? |
| 09:00.40 | umdk1d3 | at least thats what i ran into on my nokia n810 |
| 09:01.38 | DarkriftX | you still around languish? |
| 09:02.51 | sujith | umdk1d3: as you said that kernel version should be same |
| 09:03.22 | sujith | now the current android is released based on kernel 2.6.25 |
| 09:04.29 | sujith | but i want the patch to be applied on kernel 2.6.23 |
| 09:04.38 | sujith | then will it create any problem? |
| 09:04.54 | umdk1d3 | patch is pretty robust, and should let you know of any really bad things it runs into |
| 09:05.05 | umdk1d3 | *patch, the cmd line utility |
| 09:05.41 | umdk1d3 | i wouldnt be suprised if it didnt patch entirely, or if even if it did succeed if the compile then borked |
| 09:06.04 | languish | DarkriftX yes |
| 09:06.11 | sujith | no no don't take in that manner |
| 09:06.24 | DarkriftX | look again |
| 09:06.29 | DarkriftX | i added a BIG button lol |
| 09:06.41 | sujith | see i got the patch by applying a diff in same linux kernel versions |
| 09:06.42 | sujith | ok |
| 09:06.53 | languish | DarkriftX, that's a nice big button buddy. But you should say "Submit an app or game" not just submit a file |
| 09:07.14 | languish | remember, many devs aren't native english speakers |
| 09:07.17 | sujith | and now i want that patch to be applied on lower version |
| 09:07.32 | umdk1d3 | sujith: right, its not that easy :/ |
| 09:07.35 | languish | you need to give them very obvious language, and options for comprehension |
| 09:07.45 | muthu_ | DarkriftX: what's the repo you talking about? |
| 09:07.48 | languish | so "Add/Submit an App/Game" |
| 09:07.55 | DarkriftX | repo? |
| 09:08.06 | muthu_ | add/submit apps? |
| 09:08.24 | languish | DarkriftX, remember you didn't paste the url in the channel |
| 09:08.27 | DarkriftX | oh |
| 09:08.31 | languish | so they dunno what we're talking about |
| 09:08.34 | DarkriftX | its a site i made for android downloads |
| 09:08.38 | DarkriftX | didnt want to spam channel |
| 09:08.39 | muthu_ | which one? |
| 09:08.49 | DarkriftX | sent you a notice |
| 09:08.55 | muthu_ | ok |
| 09:09.01 | muthu_ | is it android-dls.com? |
| 09:09.05 | languish | haha |
| 09:09.12 | languish | yes muthu_ |
| 09:09.14 | muthu_ | cool |
| 09:09.28 | sujith | umdk1d3: so you meant to say that by taking a patch from the diff of kernel 2.6.25 and android and applying that patch to kernel version 2.6.23 will create problems? |
| 09:09.47 | sujith | see the code is compiled just fine without any probs |
| 09:10.00 | sujith | but need to be checked on the hardware |
| 09:10.08 | umdk1d3 | oh interesting |
| 09:10.24 | umdk1d3 | i would expect there to be some issues moving multiple kernel steps like that |
| 09:10.38 | sujith | so i am asking this because any one of you would have done the same things |
| 09:10.43 | umdk1d3 | i guess the android changes werent tied into anyhting that changed between 23 and 25 |
| 09:10.53 | sujith | yup true |
| 09:10.56 | sujith | you are right |
| 09:11.07 | umdk1d3 | is there a specific reason you need it .23 based? |
| 09:11.20 | sujith | not like that |
| 09:11.33 | DarkriftX | ok languish changed text to say "Submit App Or Game" |
| 09:11.34 | muthu_ | lot of downloads available.. nice |
| 09:11.43 | sujith | but i thought of doing this to check the backward compatibilty |
| 09:11.55 | DarkriftX | thats my goal, got tired of searching for hours for apps to test in the emulator |
| 09:12.15 | languish | DarkriftX, lower case o in Or, otherwise, good'nuff :) |
| 09:12.19 | DarkriftX | heh |
| 09:12.20 | sujith | if it not works, then its no different from microsoft's other softwares :) |
| 09:13.38 | languish | DarkriftX, ok, after clicking the submit button.. in the text.. (even though you'd think it's obvious) indicate you want them to submit ANDROID apps/games |
| 09:13.47 | languish | or you'll have people submitting all kinds of unrelated crap |
| 09:13.48 | DarkriftX | lol |
| 09:14.09 | languish | With a brief explaination of what Android is |
| 09:14.20 | muthu_ | haha.. dont want people to submit iphone apps |
| 09:14.26 | languish | :) |
| 09:14.32 | muthu_ | may be android will run them :) |
| 09:14.36 | umdk1d3 | DarkriftX: i would tread carefully--especially since you dont link back to the sources |
| 09:14.47 | umdk1d3 | the biggest problem being that you become liable for bad apps |
| 09:14.59 | languish | umdk1d3, yeah, I mentioned linking back to the original devs to him |
| 09:15.06 | umdk1d3 | someone could come back and blame you for a bad app, when it really wasnt your fault |
| 09:15.17 | DarkriftX | umdk1d3, that will be done soon |
| 09:15.26 | DarkriftX | its still new and im working out the kinks |
| 09:15.32 | umdk1d3 | also, as a developer seeing some of my apps on there, it boils the blood a little bit |
| 09:15.40 | umdk1d3 | i dont like sending dmca notices :/ |
| 09:16.00 | languish | DarkriftX, I suggest you lock the site down, until it's ready to go live |
| 09:16.02 | umdk1d3 | but i suppose i cant do much when i opensouced them |
| 09:16.21 | languish | give people you want to review it a p/w |
| 09:16.24 | DarkriftX | everything on there was downloaded from other sites and i tried to make sure none were non freeware |
| 09:16.25 | muthu_ | yeah, but closed apps will be a problem |
| 09:16.35 | DarkriftX | i wont be offering those |
| 09:16.44 | languish | open source != freeware |
| 09:16.48 | languish | beware that misconception |
| 09:16.56 | umdk1d3 | DarkriftX: another issue would be versioning |
| 09:17.09 | umdk1d3 | its going to be a mess for you to keep up on versions released in other places |
| 09:17.21 | umdk1d3 | if you add apps that developers dont "claim" |
| 09:17.25 | umdk1d3 | then you end up with stale content |
| 09:17.57 | muthu_ | unless a bot constantly checks for updates |
| 09:18.10 | DarkriftX | like i said, my goal is to have most of it user submitted (devs would be great sources) |
| 09:18.40 | DarkriftX | i will be checking to see if the developers offer downloads without paying, not creating a warez site with it |
| 09:18.40 | muthu_ | DarkriftX: if you list free apps, it shouldn't be a problem |
| 09:18.54 | DarkriftX | all of those were on sites claiming they were free |
| 09:19.11 | muthu_ | good, since a free android download site is required |
| 09:19.21 | muthu_ | most of the markets now claim both free and paid |
| 09:19.37 | muthu_ | a complete free market will be in great demand |
| 09:19.42 | DarkriftX | exactly |
| 09:19.54 | DarkriftX | paying should be done to developers not hosts |
| 09:20.04 | languish | heads up http://www.android-freeware.org/ |
| 09:20.15 | languish | someone out there is trying it too |
| 09:20.18 | muthu_ | great |
| 09:20.32 | DarkriftX | yeah, they have like 20 downloads though |
| 09:20.35 | DarkriftX | i have 56 |
| 09:20.38 | languish | and they have balls |
| 09:20.41 | languish | "Welcome to the one and only Open Directory of Android freeware! " |
| 09:20.46 | languish | :| |
| 09:20.46 | DarkriftX | and my sites a little over a week old |
| 09:20.47 | umdk1d3 | sigh i fear this will all be a mute point in a few weeks |
| 09:20.53 | languish | umdk1d3, agreed |
| 09:21.08 | languish | very few will bother with anything but android market |
| 09:21.32 | umdk1d3 | unless market turns out to be restrictive somehow |
| 09:21.42 | languish | it will eventually have to be |
| 09:21.44 | umdk1d3 | in a way that a third party "market" could step in and help |
| 09:22.13 | umdk1d3 | but that would become obvious only after we see how the original market holds up |
| 09:22.25 | muthu_ | market cannot hold everything |
| 09:22.30 | umdk1d3 | i could see there becoming an "elite" type market |
| 09:22.46 | umdk1d3 | i looked through the ipod app store and it was all... junk |
| 09:22.50 | languish | well, product type dedicated markets |
| 09:22.57 | languish | business apps specific |
| 09:23.03 | languish | games specific |
| 09:23.08 | umdk1d3 | languish: sure, excatly |
| 09:23.20 | umdk1d3 | like geared towards sysadmins, versus social networking, etc |
| 09:23.24 | languish | nod |
| 09:23.36 | languish | it'll be a fun ride |
| 09:23.41 | umdk1d3 | and the key would be *not* taking just any apps |
| 09:23.49 | umdk1d3 | only letting quality stuff in, and keeping it simple |
| 09:24.09 | umdk1d3 | maybe like a bundle type think |
| 09:24.12 | muthu_ | who decides quality? |
| 09:24.24 | umdk1d3 | but you could kinda offer bundles even using market i suppose |
| 09:24.37 | umdk1d3 | because i assume there will be intents to launch into a specific app |
| 09:24.49 | umdk1d3 | *specific app's entry in market |
| 09:25.18 | languish | muthu_, there will be some glaring differences between quality apps and non |
| 09:25.30 | muthu_ | how? |
| 09:25.38 | languish | over time, user reviews will determin the wash outs |
| 09:25.50 | languish | well for example, apps that cause conflicts |
| 09:25.52 | muthu_ | hmm |
| 09:25.57 | languish | apps with poor UI |
| 09:26.05 | languish | wouldn't be quality |
| 09:26.06 | umdk1d3 | but i think the user ratings can only help so much |
| 09:26.18 | languish | umdk1d3, that's why i said, over time |
| 09:26.35 | muthu_ | if there's 1000's of apps |
| 09:26.35 | languish | initally apps would be judged based on the individual sites review process |
| 09:26.36 | umdk1d3 | well, i mean seprate from that, good-rated apps can become stale over time |
| 09:26.43 | umdk1d3 | i could see something like digg maybe |
| 09:26.45 | muthu_ | wonder how an user can find what's good or bad |
| 09:27.03 | languish | eventually, there will be sites a user will trust |
| 09:27.08 | muthu_ | yeah, market is digg like |
| 09:27.12 | languish | it'll take time for those to wash out |
| 09:27.31 | muthu_ | latest, popular, favorites |
| 09:27.34 | muthu_ | featured |
| 09:27.54 | muthu_ | so for example popular, featured etc., might have some limits |
| 09:27.54 | languish | does google have some type of certification process/program for apps? |
| 09:28.01 | DarkriftX | featured implies "the author paid me $50 to post this on front page" type of deal |
| 09:28.02 | umdk1d3 | languish: nope |
| 09:28.10 | languish | I'm sure certification groups will pop up |
| 09:28.14 | muthu_ | DarkriftX: exactly |
| 09:28.18 | muthu_ | kinda sponsored |
| 09:28.20 | DarkriftX | i want to stay away from that |
| 09:28.34 | DarkriftX | then it becomes a bid way, not ratings |
| 09:28.38 | DarkriftX | bid war* |
| 09:28.40 | languish | nod |
| 09:28.49 | languish | that's part of the vetting process for sites |
| 09:28.56 | muthu_ | yeah, and market will make money |
| 09:29.06 | DarkriftX | i want users to be able to come, find the apps they want and download them. not have to search 12 different sites |
| 09:29.27 | languish | if someone's taking money to push apps, instead of an honest review process. and the app they push is crap.. the site will lose user confidence |
| 09:29.48 | *** join/#android etd (n=edehde@mail.coremedia.com) |
| 09:29.57 | DarkriftX | featured apps on my site would be apps that get massive attention in a forum post or something close |
| 09:30.02 | languish | like, engadget is fun to read.. and I love the site.. but I take anything they say with a a dumptruck of salt |
| 09:30.25 | languish | they're just a bit too apple-loving for me |
| 09:30.58 | DarkriftX | and umdk1d3 let me know which apps of yours you want removed |
| 09:31.02 | languish | and they don't correct all the inaccuracies of their articles at times |
| 09:31.02 | DarkriftX | or edited |
| 09:31.33 | DarkriftX | i dont mind links to authors sites, I just havent had time... i copied and pasted what i could find for basic descriptions for now |
| 09:31.36 | languish | DarkriftX, put up a section that lists but doesn't host, apps that have been requested for removal. |
| 09:31.51 | languish | that way you remain a source for info |
| 09:31.58 | languish | without pissing off those devs |
| 09:32.04 | umdk1d3 | also |
| 09:32.29 | umdk1d3 | DarkriftX: are most of the apks you have signed correctly by their original devs? |
| 09:32.41 | umdk1d3 | remember that the devices are going to be much more picky about signatures |
| 09:32.53 | umdk1d3 | most of those apks prolly still have dev sigs, which will expire in the next year |
| 09:33.08 | DarkriftX | im hoping they will all be updated by then |
| 09:33.28 | languish | that might be a good field to add |
| 09:33.33 | languish | "signature confirmed" |
| 09:33.35 | DarkriftX | im not creating an archive, just the latest version of each download |
| 09:33.37 | DarkriftX | yes |
| 09:34.12 | languish | later on it may not be so necessary, but in the first year of android it will |
| 09:34.17 | DarkriftX | yeah |
| 09:34.32 | DarkriftX | im still waiting on users to download, comment etc on what works and what doesnt |
| 09:35.41 | DarkriftX | im trying to make myself wait a while to get an android device, but i might splurge soon for the g1 |
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| 09:35.41 | DarkriftX | so for now it will be user tested |
| 09:35.41 | languish | nod |
| 09:35.41 | DarkriftX | and emu of course |
| 09:36.30 | DarkriftX | i want to add fields to each download to rate specifics of each, like: installation, ease of use, features all with a 1-5 star rating |
| 09:36.52 | DarkriftX | install 4/5 ease of use 5/5, features 1/5 etc |
| 09:39.31 | DarkriftX | ill make a form where devs can request removal, only thing i would require is email reply from domain that app comes from, or link to something on their site saying they dont want their files hosted elsewhere. would that be acceptable for most devs? |
| 09:40.36 | languish | dark, indicate the email should come from the contact address on the devs site |
| 09:40.48 | languish | and when you get it, check the headers |
| 09:40.52 | languish | make sure it's not spoofed |
| 09:41.20 | DarkriftX | what id do is send an email to the address at that domain and require a reply |
| 09:41.30 | DarkriftX | that would prove they can recieve email there |
| 09:41.30 | languish | nod |
| 09:41.38 | umdk1d3 | or just a link with random md5 or something |
| 09:41.49 | umdk1d3 | automation makes the world spin ;) |
| 09:41.52 | DarkriftX | lol |
| 09:41.57 | umdk1d3 | grr im starving, /me goes to store |
| 09:42.05 | DarkriftX | later |
| 09:42.08 | DarkriftX | almost bed time for me |
| 09:42.14 | umdk1d3 | heh 4am here |
| 09:42.17 | *** join/#android exmac (n=exmac@exman2.mizi.com) |
| 09:42.24 | DarkriftX | feel free to register and comment on my forum ;) |
| 09:42.37 | DarkriftX | id love to have some developer released apps |
| 09:43.27 | languish | l8r |
| 09:43.35 | languish | hrm |
| 09:43.36 | languish | food |
| 09:43.39 | languish | damn you |
| 09:45.18 | languish | DarkriftX |
| 09:45.23 | DarkriftX | ? |
| 09:45.25 | languish | you spelled submit as sumbit |
| 09:45.43 | DarkriftX | lol |
| 09:45.45 | languish | over the button :) |
| 09:45.56 | DarkriftX | fixed |
| 09:46.31 | languish | :) |
| 09:46.42 | DarkriftX | good catch lol |
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| 09:49.20 | DarkriftX | ok, its bedtime |
| 09:49.23 | DarkriftX | thx for the input guys |
| 09:49.33 | languish | l8r man, good luck with the site |
| 09:49.33 | *** part/#android etd (n=edehde@mail.coremedia.com) |
| 09:49.34 | DarkriftX | ill let you know how its going in a week or 2 |
| 09:49.37 | DarkriftX | thx |
| 09:51.30 | languish | ah crap |
| 09:51.54 | languish | I did register my usual nick on freenode, and have no idea what email address I registered it with |
| 09:52.01 | languish | ungenius |
| 09:55.30 | DarkriftX | an oper can tell you |
| 09:57.03 | languish | nod, I may end up having to ask |
| 09:57.09 | languish | thanks |
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| 10:14.22 | umdk1d3 | well wbxml officially sucks |
| 10:14.33 | umdk1d3 | at least libwbxml |
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| 10:38.13 | umdk1d3 | loool im sshing at a stoplite |
| 10:38.27 | muthu_ | nice |
| 10:38.34 | umdk1d3 | yay gprs |
| 10:38.39 | languish | heh |
| 10:38.41 | muthu_ | look for any nearby patrols ;) |
| 10:39.05 | languish | now to ssh from a stop light using txt2voice and voice commands |
| 10:39.08 | languish | :| |
| 10:39.11 | umdk1d3 | thats why ya got cruise ctl |
| 10:39.36 | umdk1d3 | lol im txting an dringng 3 |
| 10:39.36 | umdk1d3 | 25mph |
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| 11:51.08 | JoeBrain | hrmmm read that as you're txting & drinking; not a good idea either |
| 11:51.41 | languish | google txt goggles :/ |
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| 12:15.54 | umdk1d3 | it was driving :P |
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| 12:40.46 | dd94300 | PC Word G1 Review: http://www.pcworld.com/businesscenter/article/152339/the_g1_is_no_iphone_but_android_has_promise.html |
| 12:43.45 | Dougie187 | theres one at engadget too |
| 12:45.14 | languish | likely not news in here, but engadged's saying there's a google controlled remote application kil switch |
| 12:45.16 | languish | *kill |
| 12:45.46 | languish | now, does google alone control it, or does t-mobile have that ability too |
| 12:46.05 | languish | and if tmo doesn't want an app on their network.. like say.. skype... |
| 12:46.16 | languish | can they enforce a remote kill |
| 12:46.29 | languish | not happy about this news |
| 12:47.52 | dd94300 | sorry but what is kill switch? |
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| 12:48.56 | tric | languish: and this is proven by? any source? or just a rumor? |
| 12:53.46 | Dougie187 | languish: google said they would use it if an app on your phone violated the developer agreement. |
| 12:54.08 | Dougie187 | so basically if you had an app that was against the ts and cs of the SDK i would assume. |
| 12:54.23 | Dougie187 | it also said that they would try to get your money back for your phone |
| 12:54.43 | Dougie187 | and they mentioned that with the app store, you can "return" any app within 24 hours for a full refund. |
| 12:55.12 | Dougie187 | http://www.engadget.com/2008/10/16/google-implemented-an-android-kill-switch-those-rascals/ |
| 12:58.54 | languish | Dougie187, if a kill switch exists, some company is going to attempt legal action at some point to get google to use it beyond currently stated intent |
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| 12:59.17 | Dougie187 | I don't think it will be easy to do though. |
| 12:59.26 | languish | also, does the kill switch work on apps NOT purchased from the *google* apple store? |
| 12:59.30 | Dougie187 | and i can't imagine google doing that a lot. |
| 12:59.47 | languish | Dougie187, easy or not, the path shouldn't exist. |
| 12:59.54 | languish | no, not a lot |
| 13:00.12 | languish | but if it happens one time inappropriately, that's one time too often |
| 13:00.50 | Dougie187 | languish: i guess its something you'd have to live with. |
| 13:00.52 | Dougie187 | its not a huge deal |
| 13:01.06 | Dougie187 | I can't imagine google just using it for anything. |
| 13:01.17 | Dougie187 | having some company request the use of it or whatever. |
| 13:01.17 | languish | I disagree. I think it is a big deal. |
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| 13:01.24 | languish | And google is a corporation |
| 13:01.35 | Dougie187 | I don't especially since they are going to help try to get your money back for your phone. |
| 13:01.45 | Dougie187 | they are just saying, don't use things your not supposed to. |
| 13:01.53 | languish | I don't assume what they'll do. I assume if they have the power to do it, they may be forced to use it |
| 13:01.59 | Dougie187 | Apple has one, and they are far less nice about how it works. |
| 13:02.01 | languish | look at how google operates in other countries |
| 13:02.15 | languish | i don't care about apple |
| 13:02.19 | languish | I don't like apple much |
| 13:02.21 | Dougie187 | other countries like what? |
| 13:02.25 | Dougie187 | Lol i don't like apple eihter. |
| 13:02.27 | Dougie187 | either* |
| 13:03.01 | languish | I do like google's services, but I do not like a remote kill capability for applications on my device |
| 13:03.13 | Dougie187 | i don't think its for applications. |
| 13:03.16 | Dougie187 | i think its for your phone. |
| 13:03.17 | languish | the carrier can disconnect service. but they should not have remote access to anything on my device |
| 13:03.23 | Dougie187 | from my understanding.. it basically bricks your phone. |
| 13:03.29 | languish | no |
| 13:03.39 | Dougie187 | why would they have to get your money back for your phone then? |
| 13:03.42 | languish | it's not a kill switch for the phone |
| 13:03.51 | languish | it's a kill switch for an individual application on the phone |
| 13:04.10 | languish | not for your phone, for an application you buy through the google market |
| 13:04.18 | Dougie187 | oh ok. so they give you the price back for your application. |
| 13:04.25 | Dougie187 | well then its probably just for applications bought from the app store. |
| 13:04.26 | languish | no |
| 13:04.39 | Dougie187 | Google then claims that it will make "reasonable efforts to recover the purchase price of the product ... from the original developer on your behalf." |
| 13:04.40 | languish | they *try* to get your money back from the developer |
| 13:04.47 | Dougie187 | sure. |
| 13:04.52 | languish | they don't automatically refund your money if they kill an app on you |
| 13:05.04 | Dougie187 | yeah, but they try to get your money back. |
| 13:05.09 | Dougie187 | thats better than nothing. |
| 13:05.09 | languish | so what? |
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| 13:05.17 | languish | They have the ability to kill apps on my device. |
| 13:05.28 | Dougie187 | an app that isn't supposed to be there. |
| 13:05.34 | Dougie187 | I would assume its only apps from the app store though. |
| 13:05.36 | languish | I'd like to know if they can kill apps that are NOT purchased through the google app market |
| 13:05.52 | Dougie187 | I would assume not. personally. |
| 13:05.58 | languish | if they have remote access to my hardware, I'm not happy |
| 13:06.10 | ttuttle | http://kankky.apina.biz:8003/9400.jpg |
| 13:06.15 | languish | beyond what I explicitly allow that is |
| 13:06.34 | tric | and i wonder if its legal in all countries |
| 13:06.43 | Dougie187 | i think its for a case like this. Lets say some developer makes an app that violates their developer agreement. Then they dump it into the app store, and 20000 people download it. Then google realizes that it violates the developer agreement, rips it from the store, and kills the app on everyones phones. |
| 13:07.18 | languish | ttuttle, well, when you buy a mac, you're really paying for the next 3 or 4 macs you return and they replace on the spot |
| 13:07.24 | languish | :| |
| 13:07.30 | ttuttle | languish: heh |
| 13:07.40 | ttuttle | languish: I presume you've had a less-than-reliable experience with one? |
| 13:07.58 | ttuttle | languish: (We have a lab here with some Macs approaching 3 years old, and the failure rate is 3-5% per WEEK.) |
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| 13:08.10 | languish | personally, no. Have I helped others with their less than reliable expeiriences, yes. |
| 13:08.15 | languish | *experiences |
| 13:08.33 | languish | ttuttle, lol |
| 13:08.45 | ttuttle | languish: ah |
| 13:09.49 | Dougie187 | languish: either way, i personally don't think its a huge deal. and i think in using one of the phones you are allowing that access to your phone. |
| 13:10.28 | languish | Dougie187, yes, I assume that's how it works. However, having that capability, say some patent troll company whines to the courts about an app that violates their patent, and even though it's an "obvious" idea, and should never have been covered by a patent, the court issues the C&D |
| 13:11.05 | languish | does that mean the app that's completely legitimate, will get killed over an inappropriate application of the law? |
| 13:11.13 | ttuttle | Yeah, the trouble with having that feature is that it may get used in bad ways. |
| 13:11.19 | languish | or worse, google determins an app is "immoral" |
| 13:11.21 | ttuttle | I hope Google reserves it only for truly malicious apps. |
| 13:11.22 | languish | and they kill it |
| 13:11.35 | languish | google may not have a choice |
| 13:11.37 | Dougie187 | ttuttle: it is my understanding that they will, but who knows. |
| 13:11.40 | languish | that's my point |
| 13:11.42 | tric | well, is there such a feature, or is it only in those legal statements? |
| 13:11.58 | languish | tric, supposedly there is such a feature. |
| 13:12.24 | languish | it's unlikely google would publish said legal statements without one |
| 13:13.08 | ttuttle | languish: Have you seen some legal statements? |
| 13:13.09 | Dougie187 | tric there is a feature. |
| 13:13.28 | ttuttle | languish: When I signed up with American Airlines, they required me to agree that I wouldn't upload viruses using their frequent-flier program site. WTF? |
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| 13:13.49 | Dougie187 | http://www.computerworld.com/action/article.do?command=viewArticleBasic&taxonomyName=Software&articleId=9117279&taxonomyId=18&pageNumber=1 |
| 13:13.56 | dd94300 | that is funny................ |
| 13:14.55 | Dougie187 | ttuttle: my opinion of it, is that it will not very likely get used in a "bad way" because that would make it hard for google to maintain a good reputation with the user community. |
| 13:15.08 | Dougie187 | if they went around killing every app they felt like, noone would want an android phone. |
| 13:15.33 | Dougie187 | also, i would assume they could only tell what apps you have bought from the app store, so it would then be restricted to those apps. |
| 13:16.16 | ttuttle | Dougie187: Yeah. They very specifically want to avoid looking like Apple with the "Gee we do not like your app. *ZAP*" |
| 13:16.24 | Dougie187 | yeah |
| 13:16.31 | Dougie187 | i think thats why they are going to try to get your money back and stuff. |
| 13:16.39 | languish | There's another consideration. If the app is something you use to store important personal/business information... |
| 13:16.42 | Dougie187 | and you can get a full refund within 24 hours. |
| 13:16.44 | languish | and google remote kills it |
| 13:16.53 | languish | who cares about the refund |
| 13:16.58 | tric | dougie: well, your link only assumes that there is one, because of this legal statement |
| 13:16.59 | languish | what about the data |
| 13:17.05 | ttuttle | languish: /me mutters something about the cloud. |
| 13:17.20 | languish | the cloud doesn't back up everything |
| 13:17.31 | ttuttle | languish: It should ;-) |
| 13:17.48 | tric | i wonder if this "kill switch" will be open sourced ;) |
| 13:17.54 | snadge | and what happens when someone decides to turn off your cloud.. or manipulate the contents of it to frame you for a crime you didnt commit |
| 13:18.02 | languish | backups should be made as a stateful device image to my storage card |
| 13:18.09 | snadge | pats his tin foil hat |
| 13:18.11 | ttuttle | snadge: Um... |
| 13:18.23 | ttuttle | snadge: You are emphatically NOT the tarket market for the G1 then. ;-) |
| 13:18.25 | Dougie187 | snadge: lol. |
| 13:18.33 | languish | "target |
| 13:18.39 | languish | being the key word there |
| 13:18.42 | ttuttle | languish: yeah |
| 13:19.12 | languish | anywya, I've had 2 experiences where google has failed in the "do no evil" mantra |
| 13:19.32 | languish | personal experiences |
| 13:19.44 | Dougie187 | languish: please elaborate. |
| 13:19.48 | languish | sure |
| 13:20.34 | ttuttle | beta China and AdSense. |
| 13:20.36 | snadge | i'll be getting a g1 phone.. just i won't be storing all of my personal data in the "cloud" .. im sure i'll be keeping local copies of my data, and not putting anything too sensitive on the net |
| 13:20.54 | ttuttle | snadge: You can do that, but there's no other (provided) way to back it up. |
| 13:21.16 | languish | I made a purchase with an online vendor, using google checkout. The vendor claimed that because I used google checkout, the advertised price could not be met. Google Checkout help, was no help. They didn't understand the issue at all (some offshore support plebe I assume). |
| 13:21.21 | snadge | but someone will write one surely.. or i could |
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| 13:21.40 | ttuttle | snadge: Yeah. A SyncML client would probably be useful. |
| 13:21.43 | snadge | should be able to back up to sd card, or usb, or whatever |
| 13:21.55 | ttuttle | languish: Um, that's the vendor's fault. |
| 13:22.15 | languish | Anyway, after repeatedly trying to have google address the issue, to no avail. I finally just used my business connections to get an exec at the online vendor to call me and settle it |
| 13:22.46 | ttuttle | languish: Was it a "minimum price" thing, or they just didn't feel like giving you the lowest price for some reason? |
| 13:22.49 | languish | ttuttle, yes it is the vendors fault, but I google checkout was my payment method and their excuse for not honoring the price. |
| 13:23.10 | languish | ttuttle, they just didn't seem to like to have to accept google checkout |
| 13:23.33 | Dougie187 | thats pretty dumb, but i wouldn't fault google for that. |
| 13:23.35 | languish | which is baffling as they offered it as a method of payment |
| 13:23.44 | Dougie187 | it is baffling. |
| 13:24.01 | languish | well, in order to get my money back for the purchase, the vendor said I had to go through google checkout. |
| 13:24.12 | languish | and google checkout claimed I had to go through the vendor |
| 13:24.22 | languish | neither wanted to deal with the process of the refund |
| 13:24.32 | languish | and google checkout DOES have policies addressing it |
| 13:24.37 | languish | and they didn't follow their own policies |
| 13:24.42 | languish | anyway |
| 13:24.48 | languish | I got it settled. |
| 13:24.52 | Dougie187 | thats good. |
| 13:24.59 | languish | and never used google checkout with that vendor again |
| 13:25.08 | languish | secondly... |
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| 13:25.53 | languish | froogle (google shopping/product search) was being used to screw kids out of $ |
| 13:26.05 | languish | it was a scam a fake vendor was using |
| 13:26.17 | languish | claiming to sell them low cost xboxs |
| 13:26.26 | Dougie187 | ok |
| 13:26.56 | Dougie187 | did you try to buy one? |
| 13:27.12 | languish | I contacted google about it, and they really weren't interested. After working to get *someone* at google to even listen to the issue (emails were ignored), I finally got someone in PR to look in to it |
| 13:27.17 | languish | they determined I was correct |
| 13:27.23 | languish | no, I did not |
| 13:27.31 | languish | I knew it was a scam, it was pretty obvious |
| 13:27.40 | languish | but I knew kids that had fallen for it |
| 13:28.18 | languish | the hassle, to get anyone at google to deal with google's services being misused for fraud was... well, that's evil in my book. |
| 13:28.43 | languish | plus the pr guy offered me a t-shirt and hat for my effort, asked my size, and never sent them :| |
| 13:28.53 | languish | bastard. |
| 13:28.55 | languish | :D |
| 13:29.19 | Dougie187 | true, they should be more interested in fixing issues like that. and that does suck that you never received your shirt and hat. |
| 13:29.35 | languish | anyway, google is just like any other company |
| 13:29.47 | languish | and the longer they operate, the more they'll reflect it |
| 13:29.49 | Dougie187 | but keep in mind too, you were probably talking to some punk bottom feeder at google who doesn't care about his job at all. |
| 13:30.08 | languish | Dougie187, incorrect |
| 13:30.10 | tethridge | either that or he was in a hurry to go get some free food |
| 13:30.17 | Dougie187 | lol |
| 13:30.32 | Dougie187 | not the shirt guy. i mean the people who ignored you. |
| 13:30.56 | languish | I was dealing with someone that handled...what's the term for wealthy stock investors... |
| 13:31.01 | languish | ahh yeah |
| 13:31.41 | Dougie187 | either way. |
| 13:31.42 | languish | well I made multiple attempts.. including contacting the corp offices and emailing various dept heads |
| 13:32.05 | Dougie187 | yeah but the dept heads emails probably get screened by someone else. |
| 13:32.18 | languish | likely, but so many of them ignoring it? |
| 13:32.31 | umdk1d3 | hmm ars technica review was a tough read |
| 13:32.46 | languish | sounds like they just don't have time or inclination to deal with anything negative with respects to google products |
| 13:33.01 | languish | anyway |
| 13:33.25 | languish | this is why I have no faith in their handling of this application kill switch |
| 13:33.26 | Dougie187 | my wife was actually just upset by youTube's top 10 videos. |
| 13:33.54 | Dougie187 | i guess they are basically soft-core porn. and she added the "Fun Bundle" to her google reader that contained them. |
| 13:34.07 | Dougie187 | but she didn't know it had them. and was upset when she saw what it was. |
| 13:34.13 | languish | lol |
| 13:34.27 | languish | there's nothing illegal about legal porn :| |
| 13:34.38 | languish | at least in the US |
| 13:34.49 | Dougie187 | true, but some people don't like it, and most people expect some sort of disclosure of material. |
| 13:34.49 | tethridge | that does sound like a "fun bundle" |
| 13:35.51 | languish | Dougie187, so she never went to a news stand? |
| 13:35.51 | Dougie187 | tethridge: lol not when the other contents include Daily show clips and Colbert Report clips. |
| 13:35.51 | Dougie187 | languish: no. |
| 13:35.51 | languish | No Playboy on the stand? or maxim? |
| 13:35.51 | yakischloba_ | Dougie187: it is not at all uncommon to find such media on mainstream internet sites |
| 13:35.51 | Dougie187 | languish: we don't have news stands here. |
| 13:35.51 | languish | o.O |
| 13:35.51 | yakischloba_ | Dougie187: myspace for example, is full of shit like that |
| 13:35.54 | Dougie187 | yakischloba: lol one of the many reasons i don't use myspace. |
| 13:35.55 | languish | heck, cnn sometimes has a racy shot or two |
| 13:35.57 | yakischloba_ | Dougie187: and honestly my mother might be offended but I'd expect anyone younger to be accustomed to it by now ;) |
| 13:36.20 | Dougie187 | yakischloba_: lol. well not everyone who is younger appreciates it like some of the other people. |
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| 13:36.32 | languish | senses a religious individual |
| 13:36.37 | Dougie187 | lol nope. |
| 13:36.39 | languish | lies |
| 13:36.49 | Dougie187 | not religious at all. hah I would never have married her if she was. |
| 13:36.55 | tethridge | Dougie187, be sure to warn her to stay off redtube.com. NSFW! |
| 13:37.03 | yakischloba_ | Dougie187: I don't "appreciate" it, I just try to passively ignore it and I accept it as a consequence of services provided to me for free |
| 13:37.07 | languish | man, she must hate her email |
| 13:37.28 | Dougie187 | yakischloba_: as do i. i think she just expected something saying that you might want to be over 18 to add it. |
| 13:37.38 | languish | then againm, google's pretty good at filtering spam |
| 13:37.44 | Dougie187 | especially from google. |
| 13:38.05 | languish | were the chicks in it actually nude? |
| 13:38.12 | languish | or just scantily clad and being sexy? |
| 13:38.25 | Dougie187 | i have no idea. |
| 13:38.28 | languish | because youtube does have adult content controls |
| 13:38.34 | Dougie187 | i don't even think she knows either. |
| 13:38.45 | Dougie187 | i think she just saw the "Preview image" and got freaked out. |
| 13:38.46 | languish | then she may be wanking over nothing |
| 13:39.14 | Dougie187 | oh, it also wasn't the top 10 videos on youtube it was the top viewed videos on youtube. |
| 13:39.15 | yakischloba_ | I can't even find a top 10 videos section on youtube |
| 13:39.16 | languish | this nation is uptight enough as it is |
| 13:39.18 | yakischloba_ | oh |
| 13:39.18 | yakischloba_ | ok |
| 13:39.34 | Dougie187 | and it was what google reader picked up for those |
| 13:39.40 | languish | getting uppset over the human body is just nuts |
| 13:40.02 | Dougie187 | lol languish some people might say getting upset over an android application kill switch is just nuts. |
| 13:40.24 | languish | and android kill switch is a potential inhibition to my freedoms |
| 13:40.27 | languish | *an |
| 13:40.37 | languish | not to mention, it threatens use of my device as I wish |
| 13:40.41 | Dougie187 | lol |
| 13:40.45 | languish | someone seeing bare flesh doesn't |
| 13:40.47 | Dougie187 | everyone has their reasons. |
| 13:40.52 | yakischloba_ | lets not have this discussion. everyone has their personal views about sexuality and they are best left outside of here because they are not relevant |
| 13:41.04 | Dougie187 | yakischloba_ i think thats my point. |
| 13:41.17 | languish | yakischloba, where do you think the concept of open source comes from? |
| 13:41.21 | Dougie187 | everyone offended by different things, so you can't really say "you dumb for being offended by that" |
| 13:41.23 | languish | support of our freedoms |
| 13:41.31 | zer0her0 | Dougie187: you're dumb for saying that |
| 13:41.33 | zer0her0 | :-D |
| 13:41.41 | Dougie187 | zer0her0: thank you. |
| 13:41.43 | yakischloba_ | but on the same note I don't think it is reasonable to suggest that youtube has any responsibility to shield or censor content like that |
| 13:41.48 | zer0her0 | glad to be of service |
| 13:41.50 | zer0her0 | tips hat |
| 13:42.05 | yakischloba_ | the Internet is a crazy place and not for the feint of heart ;) |
| 13:42.08 | languish | yakischloba, they do. and they do censor what they're required to |
| 13:42.13 | languish | or at least they try |
| 13:42.24 | Dougie187 | yakischloba_: true. |
| 13:42.35 | Dougie187 | languish: i think it was she wanted more info through google reader about it. |
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| 13:42.48 | languish | heh |
| 13:43.06 | yakischloba_ | shrug. I'm not the guy either who writes a letter to his local grocery store demanding that they carry product XYZ and thinking that they have some obligation to do what I want |
| 13:43.33 | yakischloba_ | The way I look at it, organizations or people offer services and I can take them or leave them |
| 13:43.43 | Dougie187 | yakischloba_ true. |
| 13:43.50 | yakischloba_ | and they don't have any responsibility to conform to my whim |
| 13:43.57 | languish | 'eh, some thinks are so in your face, it becomes intolerable. youtube however, not so |
| 13:44.03 | languish | *things |
| 13:44.51 | Dougie187 | either way. |
| 13:44.51 | languish | I don't like the guys standing on street corners shoving porn postcards in my face |
| 13:45.02 | windowsrefund | languish, the term "Open Source" comes from an attempt to exploit the momentum of the Free Software movement without discussing the ethics |
| 13:45.03 | Dougie187 | yeah. like they do everywhere in vegas. |
| 13:45.06 | Dougie187 | they had that shit to kids. |
| 13:45.23 | languish | who determins ethics? |
| 13:45.31 | Dougie187 | lol |
| 13:45.34 | windowsrefund | as it relates to software? |
| 13:45.38 | languish | morality, ethics... |
| 13:45.40 | Dougie187 | i like how thats the word you picked out of that. |
| 13:45.44 | languish | as it relates to anything |
| 13:45.56 | languish | I know how ethics get defined |
| 13:45.59 | Dougie187 | ethics is 100% subjective. |
| 13:46.03 | windowsrefund | as it relates to software, the Free Software movement has very clearly defined freedoms 0-3 |
| 13:46.11 | languish | right |
| 13:46.24 | languish | and who are the free software movement? |
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| 13:46.56 | windowsrefund | languish, see that's the shame of it all. The fact that you speak about "Open Source", yet have no idea what the Free Software movement is |
| 13:46.58 | windowsrefund | fsf.org |
| 13:47.01 | windowsrefund | gnu.org |
| 13:47.02 | windowsrefund | GPL |
| 13:47.04 | windowsrefund | RMS |
| 13:47.05 | Dougie187 | lol |
| 13:47.14 | ttuttle | Oh god, not this. |
| 13:47.18 | languish | it's like asking who the steering commitee for postgresql is |
| 13:47.30 | Dougie187 | ttuttle: you working on any new apps yet? |
| 13:47.34 | ttuttle | Dougie187: yep |
| 13:47.36 | Dougie187 | you get started on that fax receiver? |
| 13:47.50 | languish | it's a few nice guys who just want to dev their code. and a few other guys who are complete assholes who want to make money |
| 13:47.57 | yakischloba_ | Dougie187: i'm excited for next week :) |
| 13:48.05 | Dougie187 | yakischloba_: you getting a new phone? |
| 13:48.06 | umdk1d3 | RMS \o/ |
| 13:48.11 | ttuttle | Dougie187: I told you, it's not possible with the current SDK. |
| 13:48.11 | yakischloba_ | yeah |
| 13:48.15 | yakischloba_ | a certain type in particular |
| 13:48.21 | Dougie187 | ttuttle: try to get them to add this. http://java.sun.com/products/jtapi/ |
| 13:48.21 | yakischloba_ | some google thing |
| 13:48.28 | umdk1d3 | RMS is my homeboy |
| 13:48.30 | Dougie187 | yakischloba_: i haven't head about it. what is it? |
| 13:48.40 | yakischloba_ | Dougie187: droid something or other |
| 13:48.44 | ttuttle | RMS is a jerk. I've met him in person, and he's perhaps one of the worst spokespeople ever. |
| 13:48.47 | yakischloba_ | Dougie187: supposed to be the hot new shit |
| 13:48.53 | Dougie187 | yakischloba_: ohh. sounds interesting. please go on. |
| 13:49.05 | Dougie187 | I'm getting a new digital camera for my birthday. |
| 13:49.07 | ttuttle | He's got cool ideas, and I'm happy he started the free software movement, but he doesn't know how to talk with people in a reasonable manner. |
| 13:49.08 | Dougie187 | it comes next week. |
| 13:49.09 | windowsrefund | many of us have met RMS. He's a living legend that deserves much respect |
| 13:49.10 | ttuttle | Dougie187: yay |
| 13:49.16 | yakischloba_ | Dougie187: hehe. I just hope they don't sell out or something, i wont be able to get there til afternoon |
| 13:49.27 | Dougie187 | yakischloba_: you know they will. |
| 13:49.40 | Dougie187 | they will probably only have like 10 per store. |
| 13:49.42 | languish | Something I've found about living legends. Most deserve their reputations. both good, and bad. |
| 13:49.50 | Dougie187 | since 1.5 million have already sold. |
| 13:49.50 | yakischloba_ | Dougie187: hopefully perhaps they will have some the next day or something..I'll have Thursday off, so I can go hunting if need be |
| 13:49.51 | ttuttle | windowsrefund: So, I respect him for his work in free software, but I feel that in interacting with people, he does the movement a disservice. |
| 13:49.58 | windowsrefund | ttuttle, wrong |
| 13:50.03 | languish | lol |
| 13:50.07 | ttuttle | windowsrefund: Well, right, for at least one person. |
| 13:50.08 | umdk1d3 | aww but hes so cute ^.^ loool |
| 13:50.16 | windowsrefund | ttuttle, if he makes a person think about the issue, he's doing his job |
| 13:50.21 | ttuttle | windowsrefund: Um, wrong. |
| 13:50.33 | yakischloba_ | ttuttle, don't feed this fire ;) |
| 13:50.44 | ttuttle | windowsrefund: He didn't make them think about the issue, he made them walk away because he started yelling at them for saying "freeware" by mistake. (Yeah, I know it was wrong, but he was a total ass about correcting her.) |
| 13:50.46 | Dougie187 | ttuttle: have you heard about this new droid whatchamacallit? |
| 13:50.47 | windowsrefund | the free software movement isn't about making buddies. We've got facebook for that |
| 13:50.51 | umdk1d3 | yay flamewar! =D |
| 13:50.59 | windowsrefund | FS is about freedoms 0-3 |
| 13:51.03 | languish | windowsrefund, there's getting someone to think about an issue, and getting someone to think negatively about the issue because your position is being presented offensively. |
| 13:51.39 | ttuttle | windowsrefund: Sure, I know that. But if you guys presented it in a less fanatical fashion, you'd actually get more supporters. |
| 13:51.58 | ttuttle | windowsrefund: Saying "we don't want to make buddies" is a great way to ensure nobody cares after a while. |
| 13:52.04 | Dougie187 | its like the guy on the corner who throws bibles at you because you sin. |
| 13:52.10 | ttuttle | Dougie187: exactly |
| 13:52.18 | windowsrefund | ttuttle, sounds like the "Open Source" movement would be a better fit for you |
| 13:52.20 | Dougie187 | and he has the bull horn and pours holy water on you. |
| 13:52.34 | ttuttle | windowsrefund: No, I do know the difference, and I like the idea of free software. |
| 13:52.40 | Disconnect | my phone finally has a tracking # |
| 13:52.43 | Disconnect | :) |
| 13:52.46 | languish | windowsrefund, put it this way.. when you're fanatical about the issue, we see you as being just like those xbox fanatics, or apple iphone fanatics that just offend everyone that doesn't *already* agree with them |
| 13:52.49 | Dougie187 | Disconnect: you pre-ordered? |
| 13:52.54 | ttuttle | Disconnect: congrats |
| 13:53.09 | languish | hrm |
| 13:53.10 | windowsrefund | fanatical is just a silly word. We could easily replace it with "conviction" |
| 13:53.12 | languish | hits ups.com |
| 13:53.36 | ttuttle | windowsrefund: So, define "fanatical" as "so enthusiastic that most people who interact with them find it disturbing". |
| 13:53.47 | languish | windowsrefund, there's a reason the word fantatcism exists, and convictionism doesn't. |
| 13:54.06 | languish | *fanaticism |
| 13:55.16 | windowsrefund | tuttle, do you support freedoms 0-3? |
| 13:55.22 | ttuttle | windowsrefund: Yes. |
| 13:55.26 | windowsrefund | ok then |
| 13:55.31 | windowsrefund | you're part of the solution |
| 13:56.09 | languish | that type of talk is nazism |
| 13:56.14 | yakischloba_ | spare us |
| 13:56.17 | yakischloba_ | it's too early for this shit |
| 13:56.28 | windowsrefund | no |
| 13:56.39 | Dougie187 | lol |
| 13:56.43 | windowsrefund | the only question is whether or not it's too late |
| 13:56.45 | windowsrefund | :) |
| 13:56.52 | ttuttle | windowsrefund: It's too late. |
| 13:56.54 | languish | What the fanatics do, is annoy everyone that's not like them, until they all leave |
| 13:56.59 | Dougie187 | i think i just got freedoms 0-3 thrown at my face. |
| 13:57.00 | ttuttle | windowsrefund: Everyone and their dog runs Windows. |
| 13:57.11 | languish | so what I'm going to do now is employ /ignore windowsrefund |
| 13:57.16 | ttuttle | windowsrefund: It's tragic, but likely irreversible. |
| 13:57.18 | languish | done. |
| 13:57.32 | windowsrefund | ttuttle, it's not about "windows" |
| 13:57.33 | Dougie187 | soon ttuttle is going to have to join that list unfortunately. |
| 13:57.40 | ttuttle | Dougie187: nonono please don't |
| 13:57.42 | windowsrefund | there's a bigger war being fought |
| 13:57.42 | ttuttle | stops. |
| 13:57.46 | Dougie187 | lol |
| 13:58.06 | languish | anyway, I have grave concerns and more questions about this application kill switch. Particularly, can they kill apps that weren't downloaded from the google app store. |
| 13:58.19 | Dougie187 | languish: i said i don't think so. |
| 13:58.27 | Dougie187 | im not sure though. |
| 13:58.31 | languish | Dougie187, what you *think* is immaterial to a solid answer |
| 13:58.41 | Dougie187 | but from my understanding no, especially since it is in the Terms of service of the app store. |
| 13:58.45 | Dougie187 | not the phone. |
| 13:58.52 | languish | I'm not seeking guesswork. I'm seeking a factual answer. |
| 13:59.03 | ttuttle | languish: Nobody has one yet. |
| 13:59.10 | languish | ttuttle, incorrect |
| 13:59.16 | Dougie187 | and it has to violate the developer distribution agreement with the app store. |
| 13:59.21 | ttuttle | languish: Well, nobody here is willing to share it, then. |
| 13:59.22 | languish | quite a number of people have g1's |
| 13:59.27 | Dougie187 | so if you don't use the app store you are not required to abide by those. |
| 13:59.35 | Dougie187 | thus, they are not allowed to kill an app |
| 13:59.36 | ttuttle | languish: I do. How do I know if it can kill random apps? |
| 13:59.52 | languish | ttuttle, i don't know. But we have some google devs in the channel. |
| 14:00.00 | languish | Hopefully they'll be able to tell us. |
| 14:00.05 | Dougie187 | languish: ttuttle was one. |
| 14:00.07 | ttuttle | languish: Sure, but until Google says anything public, they're probalby not allowed to say. |
| 14:00.11 | languish | "was" |
| 14:00.12 | languish | ? |
| 14:00.16 | ttuttle | languish: intern |
| 14:00.20 | languish | ahh |
| 14:00.27 | ttuttle | languish: I have no knowledge of the kill switch other than its existence. |
| 14:00.28 | Dougie187 | languish: just look up the app store terms of service. |
| 14:00.32 | languish | ttuttle, nod |
| 14:00.37 | ttuttle | Also, %s/app store/market/g |
| 14:00.54 | languish | lol |
| 14:01.05 | ttuttle | It's a prettier name ;-) |
| 14:01.10 | languish | agreed |
| 14:01.10 | Dougie187 | ttuttle: don't muthu me. |
| 14:01.19 | ttuttle | Dougie187: ? |
| 14:01.24 | Dougie187 | thats something he would do. |
| 14:01.27 | ttuttle | Oh. Sorry. |
| 14:01.31 | Dougie187 | np |
| 14:01.45 | Dougie187 | where can we get the TS for the market? |
| 14:01.53 | ttuttle | Dougie187: Dunno. |
| 14:01.58 | languish | then again, Dougie187 refers to open source software as "freeware" |
| 14:02.02 | languish | lulz |
| 14:02.04 | ttuttle | Dougie187: Get a G1, turn it on, tap "Market". |
| 14:02.06 | Foxdie | <--- excited ^_^ |
| 14:02.12 | ttuttle | Foxdie: Getting a G1? |
| 14:02.18 | languish | Foxdie, me too buddy |
| 14:02.20 | Dougie187 | ttuttle: are the terms of service in there? |
| 14:02.23 | Foxdie | Hopefully |
| 14:02.30 | ttuttle | Dougie187: There's a click-through agreement of sorts. |
| 14:02.33 | ttuttle | Dougie187: I don't know if it covers that. |
| 14:02.35 | ttuttle | Foxdie: Nice! |
| 14:02.39 | Dougie187 | read it. |
| 14:02.40 | ttuttle | Foxdie: /me hopes you like it ;-) |
| 14:02.51 | ttuttle | Dougie187: Hrm, I've clicked through already (several days ago). |
| 14:02.55 | ttuttle | really has to go. |
| 14:02.57 | ttuttle | Be back later. |
| 14:03.01 | Dougie187 | ok |
| 14:03.01 | Foxdie | I've always been up with mobile computing and technology, especially since I used to work for Vodafone, but I don't think I've eagerly anticipated a handset more than the G1 |
| 14:03.11 | Foxdie | take care ttuttle |
| 14:03.35 | languish | l8r |
| 14:05.26 | Foxdie | can someone explain to me how android works behind the scenes? |
| 14:05.38 | Foxdie | is it essentially a embedded linux system? |
| 14:05.47 | Disconnect | there's a ton of highlevel docs, but i can give a brief version :) |
| 14:06.04 | Disconnect | embedded linux, framebuffer, custom daemons, custom java jvm. |
| 14:06.12 | Foxdie | will it come with a console to acces lower functionality, will there be an ssh client / server etc? :) |
| 14:06.53 | Disconnect | "come with" ..? no. and the jury is still out on whether (eg) adb shell from the sdk works |
| 14:07.19 | Disconnect | people have already written ssh clients and such |
| 14:09.21 | Foxdie | awesome, one of the things I'd like to use android / G1 for is to administer a series of linux servers when I'm on the road |
| 14:09.34 | Foxdie | but it'd be nice to have a local, usable sshd as well |
| 14:09.49 | Foxdie | build software for it too if possible with a cross compiler |
| 14:10.01 | *** join/#android Adamant (n=Adamant@c-98-244-152-196.hsd1.ga.comcast.net) |
| 14:10.14 | dd94300 | does anybody know how to get fancy buttons like in calculator application? |
| 14:12.21 | *** join/#android anno^da_ (n=anno^da@p5492C9F8.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 14:13.45 | *** join/#android kslater (n=kslater@206.193.247.78.nauticom.net) |
| 14:15.20 | *** join/#android VickiWong (n=denvar@p5B057649.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 14:17.50 | zhobbs | dd94300: I was wondering the same thing |
| 14:21.17 | dd94300 | seems like they are using APNG framing after onClick event |
| 14:21.46 | languish | hrm |
| 14:21.47 | languish | actually |
| 14:21.55 | languish | being able to ssh IN to my g1 would be nice |
| 14:22.21 | languish | especially if I can access certain functionality through it |
| 14:22.29 | languish | then again, ssh hijacking, not so fun |
| 14:22.32 | languish | :\ |
| 14:22.40 | languish | we need an ssh3 |
| 14:22.40 | *** join/#android pi31415 (n=chatzill@c-98-232-172-233.hsd1.or.comcast.net) |
| 14:23.04 | languish | oh shit |
| 14:23.25 | languish | static ip's on a g1 would make me so happy. damn you limited cell carriers |
| 14:23.40 | pi31415 | is it easy to use an android device as a pda without paying a monthly phone fee? |
| 14:23.55 | languish | pi31415, not yet. |
| 14:24.02 | Foxdie | One thing I've found is T-Mo in the UK allow VPN connections over their GPRS / 3G network |
| 14:24.10 | languish | after some pda style apps are dev'd, perhaps |
| 14:24.13 | muthu_ | hey, did someone say my name? |
| 14:24.20 | Dougie187 | nope |
| 14:24.22 | muthu_ | haha |
| 14:24.30 | Foxdie | so if there was a VPN client on a G1, you could say, tunnel to a server and have a 1:1 NAT mapping, and have your own IP address :) |
| 14:24.35 | muthu_ | i'm going home now.. come back and talk to you :) |
| 14:24.37 | languish | muthu_, unfortunately for you, it was only Dougie187. so when you say "someone" no, not really |
| 14:24.46 | languish | l8r |
| 14:24.49 | muthu_ | l8r |
| 14:24.52 | Foxdie | Anyone know if there's a VPN client for Android? |
| 14:25.04 | pi31415 | languish: my brother used his pda to check email and look things up on the web |
| 14:25.11 | pi31415 | languish: can android do webmail? |
| 14:25.15 | languish | yes |
| 14:25.33 | Foxdie | pi31415, no offense, he should really get one of the gazillion other devices out there that have wifi |
| 14:25.34 | languish | pi31415, there are reviews of the g1, and android... |
| 14:25.45 | Foxdie | tell him to look at the Asus EEE PC laptops |
| 14:25.55 | pi31415 | foxdie: you mean like a Dell mini instead of a Google android? |
| 14:25.57 | Dougie187 | pi31415: you should really go read some stuff about android. |
| 14:26.02 | Foxdie | they're cheap, and will do most regular things |
| 14:26.19 | Foxdie | surfing, music, email |
| 14:26.44 | Dougie187 | Foxdie: do you know if they have sd card slots on any of them? |
| 14:26.52 | Foxdie | there isn't much point getting an android handset if you're not gonna get a data service with it, thats my impression anyway |
| 14:26.57 | Foxdie | Dougie187, most do |
| 14:27.01 | Foxdie | SDHC slots |
| 14:27.11 | Dougie187 | Foxdie: cool. thats helpful for the hdd size issues |
| 14:27.14 | pi31415 | Foxdie: my brother would check his email free wifi at the coffee shop |
| 14:27.20 | wastrel | supposedly you'll be able to buy the hardware without a cell plan, for $400ish |
| 14:27.22 | pi31415 | Foxdie: does that count as data service? |
| 14:27.31 | Dougie187 | pi31415: look up an MID or a Netbook. |
| 14:27.33 | Foxdie | pi31415, dell mini / eee pc come with built in wifi |
| 14:27.36 | Dougie187 | tell him to get an n810 |
| 14:27.52 | Foxdie | and the theory is you can buy a G1 with wifi and use that for the net connection |
| 14:28.00 | Foxdie | but its a waste imho |
| 14:28.06 | Dougie187 | Foxdie: a total waste. |
| 14:28.21 | pi31415 | he doesn't need anything, i am just tossing it out as an example non-cell-plan use |
| 14:28.35 | Dougie187 | pi31415: look up n770 n800 or n810 if you want something small |
| 14:28.37 | Dougie187 | or any MIDs |
| 14:28.46 | Dougie187 | or any UMPC |
| 14:28.50 | Dougie187 | err.. |
| 14:28.51 | languish | were all g1's supposed to be shipped 3-day? |
| 14:28.54 | Dougie187 | UPMCs? |
| 14:28.59 | languish | because min was shipped ground |
| 14:29.00 | Foxdie | pi31415, eee pc is about half the size of a normal laptop, has a good cpu in it, wifi, SD slot, it'll do everything he needs, can even run xp / vista if he needs it badly |
| 14:29.02 | languish | *mine |
| 14:29.06 | Dougie187 | languish: well they are supposed to be here by wednesday |
| 14:29.15 | Foxdie | umpc's are $rofl |
| 14:29.18 | Foxdie | expensive |
| 14:29.23 | pi31415 | thank you for your time |
| 14:29.23 | Dougie187 | true. |
| 14:29.40 | Dougie187 | but they are tiny as hell |
| 14:29.42 | languish | Dougie187, I know. but some people are getting 3-day shipping, and will have theirs by tomorrow/monday |
| 14:29.48 | Foxdie | mind you, I admit I got a semi hearing about the sony UX series modded to have a ULV Core2Duo chip in it :) |
| 14:29.54 | Dougie187 | languish: some have shipped earlier than today though |
| 14:30.08 | languish | I'm wondering what makes the difference between those who got 3-day, and those who got ground delivery |
| 14:30.21 | Dougie187 | Foxdie: that is pretty sweet. |
| 14:30.32 | Dougie187 | languish: maybe they paid for it? |
| 14:30.37 | Foxdie | can't wait until the netbooks get the dual core atoms next year |
| 14:30.43 | Foxdie | I might actually buy one |
| 14:30.44 | languish | Dougie187, yes, but how. We were't given the option. |
| 14:30.45 | Dougie187 | hell yeah. |
| 14:30.49 | Foxdie | but my next investment simply has to be a G1 :) |
| 14:30.55 | languish | heh |
| 14:31.01 | Dougie187 | no G1 here... |
| 14:31.02 | Dougie187 | :( |
| 14:31.06 | Dougie187 | not until it's out on sprint. |
| 14:31.14 | Foxdie | I hope they fix A2DP on it though, I have bluetooth stereo on my cars headunit, would be nice to not have lots of wires in my car |
| 14:31.24 | benley | a2dp will show up sooner or later |
| 14:31.38 | Foxdie | oh I have fait in that benley |
| 14:31.43 | Foxdie | I just hope sooner :) |
| 14:32.02 | Foxdie | G1's make-or-break will be its ability to self-update |
| 14:32.07 | dd94300 | zhobbs: did u find anything helpful? |
| 14:32.33 | Foxdie | I like the idea that I don't need to reflash rom's to fix bugs |
| 14:32.55 | zhobbs | dd94300: no |
| 14:33.04 | zhobbs | dd94300: haven't really looked |
| 14:33.07 | Foxdie | has come from a WinMo background, has flashed too many cooked roms in his life x.x |
| 14:33.08 | languish | Shipped/Billed On: 10/15/2008 |
| 14:33.16 | languish | well at least that's something |
| 14:33.22 | *** join/#android mazzen (n=Markus@dhcp-wlce247062.zim.uni-duisburg-essen.de) |
| 14:33.44 | Foxdie | I'm slightly jealous of those getting their G1's now, I can't until the end of the month when they're released in the UK |
| 14:33.59 | Foxdie | but I wish those who get one that they enjoy it :) |
| 14:34.03 | languish | Foxdie, but in the .uk, you get them free :| |
| 14:34.16 | Foxdie | yeah, if you get a $80/month contract |
| 14:34.22 | languish | heh |
| 14:34.30 | languish | same here too |
| 14:34.30 | Foxdie | and the contracts here are 18 months on average, 24 months in some cases |
| 14:34.33 | languish | PLUS we have to pay |
| 14:35.00 | dd94300 | may be plusminus cab help, but he is not here yet |
| 14:35.02 | languish | yes, 24 momnth contract and minimum $25 data, PLUS a calling plan |
| 14:35.11 | unix_lappy | plus taxes on top of 80/month. |
| 14:35.15 | Foxdie | I'd happily pay for a G1 providing it wasn't kidney-black-market territory |
| 14:35.23 | languish | though, I understand you can get a 20$ per month data plan |
| 14:35.33 | Foxdie | I think I paid £300 for my HTC Universal sim-free |
| 14:35.39 | VickiWong | Foxdie: G1's are on a 40 quid contract? :-o |
| 14:35.40 | Foxdie | ($600 US) |
| 14:35.44 | benley | Foxdie: fwiw the self-update stuff works just fine from what I've seen |
| 14:35.46 | languish | Foxdie, let's see if my wife even likes hers |
| 14:35.57 | Foxdie | VickiWong, yep, £40 contract and you get it free |
| 14:35.57 | languish | :/ |
| 14:35.59 | benley | Foxdie: they've tested the hell out of the OTA update method |
| 14:36.17 | Foxdie | languish, she better, no one likes an ungrateful wife :) |
| 14:36.31 | Foxdie | that being said, no one likes an ungrateful husband either |
| 14:36.34 | unix_lappy | no one likes a husband who doesnt like their tech either :-P |
| 14:36.35 | languish | nah, it was her idea in the first place to get 'em |
| 14:36.36 | VickiWong | Foxdie: and the unlimited data plan is an extra 10 a month right? |
| 14:36.43 | unix_lappy | 20 |
| 14:36.44 | Foxdie | nah, I think its 40 quid all in |
| 14:36.47 | languish | I was languishing over the htc touch pro's |
| 14:36.58 | unix_lappy | funny ;-) |
| 14:37.02 | languish | :D |
| 14:37.06 | Foxdie | my contract for FlexT 35 + web'n'walk was something like 42.50 a month |
| 14:37.18 | Foxdie | for my htc universal |
| 14:37.20 | VickiWong | Foxdie: thats more acceptable then :D |
| 14:37.27 | languish | anyway, she wanted a g1, and I took a hard look at what was available about it |
| 14:37.29 | languish | and got one too |
| 14:37.37 | Foxdie | I have no intention of paying that much. |
| 14:37.48 | Dougie187 | I like the touch pro more then the g1 personally. |
| 14:37.50 | Foxdie | I've got 2 phones with t-mo |
| 14:37.53 | VickiWong | i just wish the G1 was a lil prettier of a device |
| 14:38.08 | Dougie187 | but i think the g1 is pretty sweet still |
| 14:38.14 | Foxdie | number 1, which is due for an upgrade, is on a £25 a month contract with web'n' walk |
| 14:38.24 | Foxdie | number 2 is web'n'walk on discount, 12.50 a month |
| 14:38.38 | languish | what I want, is a touch pro design with a few of the g1 extras (like the compass) running android |
| 14:38.38 | Foxdie | I'm gonna upgrade number 1 and try and keep the 25 quid month contract, and stick the sim from number 2 in it |
| 14:38.48 | VickiWong | Foxdie: im currently using a PAYG k550i, cost me 30 quid and got 20 credit with it :D |
| 14:39.07 | Foxdie | heh :) |
| 14:39.19 | Dougie187 | well it's time for class. |
| 14:39.20 | Dougie187 | im out |
| 14:39.22 | Dougie187 | see ya |
| 14:39.23 | Foxdie | where you from vicki? you're clearly british |
| 14:39.23 | VickiWong | so these monthly contracts seem daunting to me |
| 14:39.34 | *** part/#android Dougie187 (n=doug@wg-d232062.dsl.fsu.edu) |
| 14:39.38 | languish | i figure, i'll have the g1 for 6 to 8 months before t-mobile gives us the MDA Vario IV, or some new better device comes along |
| 14:39.49 | VickiWong | Foxdie: actually im chinese, live in HK :) but i studied in uk the past 4 years, south coast (chichester/bournemouth) yourself? |
| 14:39.58 | *** join/#android gambler (n=gambler@203-214-89-118.dyn.iinet.net.au) |
| 14:40.14 | VickiWong | im hoping we will have a lot of choice for devices by mid-09 for android |
| 14:40.23 | languish | heh, vicki you must have an awesome accent |
| 14:40.36 | languish | btw this isn't a come-on |
| 14:40.45 | Foxdie | Birmingham :) |
| 14:40.58 | languish | I just love the accent the asian women get when they live in the .uk for awhile |
| 14:41.05 | Foxdie | and it must be cool living in HK, I would love to visit |
| 14:41.12 | *** join/#android kslate1 (n=kslater@206.193.247.78.nauticom.net) |
| 14:41.12 | VickiWong | Foxdie: I went to a Cadbury village up near birmingham once.. |
| 14:41.18 | Foxdie | no kidding |
| 14:41.24 | Foxdie | I live about 4 miles from there |
| 14:41.29 | Foxdie | and drive past it every day I go to work |
| 14:41.37 | languish | though for some reason, I don't appreciate the .uk women's accent after living in asian countries for awhile |
| 14:41.41 | VickiWong | Foxdie: wow, nice bit of england up there :) very different from south coast |
| 14:41.42 | languish | funny how that goes |
| 14:41.50 | VickiWong | languish: lol, you live in asia? |
| 14:41.56 | Foxdie | personally I think the area I live in is dull and run down :) |
| 14:41.57 | languish | vicki, haha no.. NYC |
| 14:42.00 | Foxdie | birmingham as a whole that is |
| 14:42.11 | languish | I deal with many people from all over however |
| 14:42.24 | VickiWong | languish: lucky you :) I loved NYC when i visited |
| 14:42.30 | languish | :D me too |
| 14:42.40 | jasta | *whoa* |
| 14:42.42 | languish | I've tried to move away. I always come back |
| 14:42.44 | jasta | i'm way too tired |
| 14:42.56 | languish | jasta, lol... what'd you misread/ |
| 14:42.57 | dd94300 | yeah, what is going on? |
| 14:43.02 | VickiWong | Foxdie: i like the UK overall, minus the chav culture of course |
| 14:43.12 | Foxdie | ugh, don't remind me |
| 14:43.15 | languish | damn rudeboys |
| 14:43.18 | Foxdie | we have chavs next door |
| 14:43.45 | Foxdie | last weekend they came home from clubbing at 6am, were really noisy, then decided to play drum and bass really loud |
| 14:43.51 | VickiWong | i lived next door to drug dealing, weed smoking 12 year olds, dog fighting in backyard chavs in bournemouth >< |
| 14:44.08 | Foxdie | sounds a lot like my neighbours |
| 14:44.08 | zhobbs | seems to me that a lot of this stuff isn't going to work with the G1: http://store.androidcommunity.com/android-bluetooth.htm |
| 14:44.35 | Foxdie | although their dog just barks a lot, we (me and my boyfriend) think its because they don't take the dog for a walk |
| 14:44.49 | languish | zhobbs, haha yeah |
| 14:44.55 | Foxdie | and although we've smelt weed, never actually seen them selling it to others |
| 14:45.18 | dd94300 | zhobbs , did u read the reviews? |
| 14:45.30 | Foxdie | mind you, weed isn't bad, its the coke thats making a heavy comeback in the UK |
| 14:45.50 | zhobbs | dd94300: reviews of the G1? |
| 14:45.56 | dd94300 | yes |
| 14:45.57 | Foxdie | weed isn't bad because it calms you down, sedates you. coke however, pumps you up and makes you an uberwanker |
| 14:46.07 | Foxdie | but alas, thats a discussion for another time and channel :) |
| 14:46.30 | VickiWong | :D |
| 14:46.48 | Foxdie | I guess I shouldn't complain, our neighbours aren't too bad :) |
| 14:47.09 | Foxdie | and I'm glad you had at least some positive experience when you were here vicki |
| 14:47.27 | dd94300 | zhobbs: yes |
| 14:47.38 | VickiWong | Foxdie: oh yeah chavs aside i like UK :) will be back at someitme to finish my degree |
| 14:48.18 | zhobbs | dd94300: I skimmed them....what's the verdict? unfinished? |
| 14:48.26 | Foxdie | what were you studying? |
| 14:48.48 | *** join/#android jt436 (n=jtomlins@sdserver66.mforma.com) |
| 14:49.27 | VickiWong | Foxdie: BSc Software Engineering |
| 14:49.33 | Foxdie | ooh fancy :) |
| 14:50.12 | VickiWong | trying to find a work placement currently |
| 14:50.13 | Foxdie | Most I got was a national diploma in comp sci, couldn't afford uni, just started working straight after |
| 14:50.37 | dd94300 | zhobbs: Android is good, hardware is not |
| 14:50.51 | VickiWong | Foxdie: lol i can tafford uni either, I pay 9k a year for being international (rather then the 3k rate for uk students) |
| 14:50.51 | Foxdie | If you like bournville (where cadbury world is), there's a major IT contractor there called "Serco", maybe ask them? :) |
| 14:51.01 | zhobbs | dd94300: that's good news actually....much better than if android sucked and hardware was good |
| 14:51.10 | *** join/#android cbeust_ (n=cbeust@72.14.224.1) |
| 14:51.29 | VickiWong | zhobbs: a bit worried about what it'll make the general populus htink abotu android thugh |
| 14:51.29 | *** join/#android schmylan_ (n=schmylan@38.114.107.1) |
| 14:51.53 | VickiWong | Foxdie: didnt know Serco were based there, thanks for the tip :) |
| 14:52.12 | Foxdie | the hardware on the G1 isn't all that bad is it? |
| 14:52.27 | Foxdie | I know the camera isn't latest spec, but if I wanted high quality photos I'd buy a digital camera |
| 14:53.09 | Foxdie | VickiWong, funny story, they used to be the IT dept of Cadbury world, then grew exponentially, they're office is right behind cadbury world |
| 14:53.42 | zhobbs | VickiWong: as long as the OEM's adopt it the public will come around (whether they know it or not) |
| 14:54.04 | VickiWong | Foxdie: wow |
| 14:54.13 | VickiWong | zhobbs: true |
| 14:54.13 | dd94300 | zhobbs: exactly |
| 14:54.59 | Foxdie | My thinking is, people haven't experienced a phone like the G1 before |
| 14:55.09 | Foxdie | they're still using symbian based handsets |
| 14:55.30 | Foxdie | so even if we're being overly picky about the G1's specs, to the average person it'll be a major improvement in functionality |
| 14:56.19 | unix_lappy | anyone here looked at the specs on the screen? |
| 14:56.51 | *** join/#android schmylan__ (n=schmylan@38.114.107.11) |
| 14:56.56 | Foxdie | 480x240 transreflective screen with capacitive touchscreen isn't it? |
| 14:57.09 | Foxdie | 480 or 420, one of the wtwo |
| 14:57.10 | Foxdie | *two |
| 14:57.20 | unix_lappy | we all know it's capacitive, and it's being touted as non "multi-touch" is that because HTC used only couple electrodes or because IP law is still fuzzy on the patents pending for multitouch interface application? |
| 14:57.39 | Foxdie | I reckon it'll have the functionality there but isn't coded in software |
| 14:57.56 | Foxdie | but I could (and probably am) wrong |
| 14:58.03 | Foxdie | *could be |
| 14:58.20 | unix_lappy | Currently a lot of new media attention on the lack of multi-touch. Generally tech media is good about due-dilligence. |
| 14:58.30 | Foxdie | it makes sense to add it now and possibly be able to activate it in future if IP can be arranged |
| 14:58.42 | unix_lappy | But in this case the details are still fuzzy. Most capacitive screens are only marginally more expensive to make them multitouch. |
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| 15:00.24 | VickiWong | anhyone know what call quality is like on the G1? |
| 15:00.48 | VickiWong | i cant find a review where they got to test it |
| 15:01.13 | unix_lappy | Which really gives credence to the notion that a more "involved" device will be available late FY08 Q1 or early FY09 Q2 |
| 15:01.19 | cbeust_ | With all the reviews out there (check out techmeme.com), you would probably have heard if the call quality was not good.... |
| 15:02.20 | VickiWong | cbeust_: nice answer :) |
| 15:02.47 | cbeust_ | See how I refrained from saying "the call quality is the best I have seen in a cell phone in fifty years" |
| 15:03.43 | Foxdie | someone actuall said something similar |
| 15:03.53 | Foxdie | tthat the call quality was great |
| 15:04.07 | Foxdie | read it someplace on androidcommunity.com |
| 15:04.07 | unix_lappy | As far as hardware is concerned the major gripes are bezel, nav panel, sub par camera (and no video), keyboard isnt raised, lack of multitouch (pending), battery life is abysmal (but standard for it's class)... |
| 15:04.13 | VickiWong | cbeust_: yes i did like how subtle you were ;) |
| 15:04.32 | languish | engadget gave the call quality a decent but middling review |
| 15:04.34 | unix_lappy | re nav panel: getting in the way of typing. |
| 15:04.52 | Foxdie | video will be added, battery life is better than the iphone |
| 15:05.05 | Foxdie | plus 3rd party double capacity batteries will spring up soon |
| 15:05.19 | Foxdie | at least with the G1 you can replace the battery :) |
| 15:05.40 | languish | and yes, google reps at an event stated that the hardware and android itself was multitouch capable.. but hinted that IP issues were the reason it wasn't implimented |
| 15:06.06 | languish | if you absolutely need the reference I can find it |
| 15:06.17 | languish | it's in a video up on g1tube |
| 15:06.32 | languish | but don't make me just outta random curiosity |
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| 15:07.12 | unix_lappy | iirc, when asked if there was multitouch / multitouch gestsures, their response was patent issues. |
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| 15:07.28 | michaelnovakjr_ | romainguy, around? |
| 15:08.03 | languish | mike, was your dad a global studies/history teacher? |
| 15:08.10 | michaelnovakjr_ | me? |
| 15:08.13 | languish | yeah |
| 15:08.15 | michaelnovakjr_ | nope |
| 15:08.17 | languish | 'k |
| 15:09.38 | unix_lappy | meh, all in good time, i'm sure the source tree will have some hints that it's coming ;-) |
| 15:10.26 | zhobbs | yeah, maybe we can pirate multitouch into android |
| 15:10.39 | VickiWong | 'Google Maps on G-1 feels like a poor cousin of the iPhone-based Google Maps and Microsoft Maps on Windows Mobile' |
| 15:10.42 | VickiWong | thats suprising to hear |
| 15:10.55 | languish | just don't put your pirate stuff on the android market |
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| 15:11.06 | languish | phear teh google kill switch |
| 15:11.09 | languish | :/ |
| 15:11.26 | languish | VickiWong, sounds like whoever was using it, was on edge |
| 15:11.37 | languish | or didn't have a good 3g signal |
| 15:12.06 | VickiWong | languish: thats what i figured, other google map reviews seem to be positive |
| 15:12.10 | languish | nod |
| 15:12.37 | languish | basically the majority of negative reviews have been from people with no, edge, or poor signal |
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| 15:12.53 | languish | and the positive ones, while mixed, were mostly from those with solid 3g |
| 15:13.07 | languish | go figure |
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| 15:14.02 | Disconnect | course, the majority of users are gonna be on edge until tmob gets their rollout done. |
| 15:14.07 | Disconnect | which i'm not holding my breath for... |
| 15:14.26 | languish | it'll be interesting to see if the radio in the g1 is firmware reprogrammable and if google gets their wish for use of the white space in 2009, will the device as old as the g1 by then, get an update to use it for whatever google has in mind |
| 15:14.47 | languish | Disconnect, uhh, the majority of the phones were sold to people in 3g regions |
| 15:14.49 | languish | some edge sure |
| 15:14.59 | unix_lappy | zhobbs: i was hinting at some interesting multitouch being in the codebase, but if there's only a couple electrodes on the conductive layer of the screen then there's not much to be hacked. |
| 15:15.07 | unix_lappy | (for future devices) |
| 15:15.09 | languish | and only tmo stores in 3g areas are supposed to have the phones |
| 15:15.19 | Disconnect | languish: is that actual numbers or is that because of the stores? |
| 15:15.40 | languish | Disconnect, it's from comments by tmo reps |
| 15:15.51 | languish | and alsop because of the distrobution to the stores |
| 15:16.25 | Disconnect | so might be actual numbers :) but then again, i've been considered "baltimore region" because of where I live (basically in the triangle between b'more, annapolis and dc) but 99% of my time is dc metro |
| 15:16.27 | languish | it'd be pretty stupid for non developers in non 3g areas to get the g1 anyway. |
| 15:16.41 | languish | granted, unless they plan to spend a lot of time in a 3g area |
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| 15:16.56 | languish | Disconnect, nod |
| 15:17.08 | Disconnect | is it -that- bad on edge? :/ |
| 15:17.26 | languish | from what I've seen, people get frustrated with some of the apps on edge |
| 15:17.59 | languish | particularly google maps |
| 15:18.02 | Disconnect | hmm. damn. well.. it does have a j2me runner, right? so worst case is that i load the j2me gmail/maps apps - they work fine on my e90 in edge, so i won't expect that to be too different on the g1 |
| 15:18.17 | languish | heh |
| 15:18.53 | languish | yeah, it's not about people being reasonable at this point |
| 15:19.09 | cbeust_ | There is no Java ME runner |
| 15:19.13 | languish | there's hype and they want in, then get in, but they're put out |
| 15:19.49 | languish | yeah, I was just looking for info on j2me for android |
| 15:20.21 | Disconnect | http://www.netmite.com/android/userguide.htm |
| 15:21.49 | languish | :/ |
| 15:21.58 | languish | it needs some more time in the oven |
| 15:22.00 | languish | but cool |
| 15:23.55 | Disconnect | yah i saw a brief mention of it on the list, didn't follow the thread deeply enough to realize it wasn't part of the sdk already :/ |
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| 15:25.17 | languish | I wonder if the g1 is going to get product placement in tv shows/movies |
| 15:25.44 | languish | it really doesn't seem to be sexy enough, other than maybe some geek reference to some cool app or teen show with a kid pounding away on it |
| 15:26.17 | languish | it's not ugly in my opinion, but it's not sleek |
| 15:26.37 | languish | I can see it in an ep of Eureka |
| 15:26.48 | languish | and maybe Chuck |
| 15:30.15 | cbeust_ | languish: :) |
| 15:30.26 | Disconnect | heh |
| 15:31.51 | jasta | hehe |
| 15:32.17 | Disconnect | doesn't nokia have chuck all locked up? |
| 15:36.29 | languish | 'eh |
| 15:36.38 | languish | producers love better offers |
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| 15:42.21 | henri | hi all! What can I use to develop applications on android, C# and/or Java? |
| 15:42.54 | wastrel | java |
| 15:43.08 | wastrel | download the sdk it's easy, code.google.com |
| 15:43.20 | wastrel | er, code.google.com/android |
| 15:44.16 | henri | thx |
| 15:46.04 | VickiWong | need to get Exchange on there soonish i think |
| 15:50.33 | tethridge | I'm confused by one of walt mossberg's statements in his review. He says, "It also doesn’t automatically change the orientation of the screen from portrait to landscape simply by turning the phone." If the g1 has an accelerometer then why doesn't it switch from landscape to portrait when you tilt the phone. My canon point and shoot can do that. |
| 15:51.02 | wastrel | i read somewhere that people didn't like it during user testing |
| 15:51.10 | wastrel | but don't take my word for it :] |
| 15:51.20 | wastrel | it's something i'd like to see enabled if possible. |
| 15:51.30 | tethridge | that's strange I've never heard anybody complain of that feature |
| 15:51.55 | wastrel | well i just read it on a web site somewhere - no idea if it's true :] |
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| 15:52.16 | mgc_ | what happens one the 22nd? |
| 15:52.35 | Cedric2 | tethridge: because it's annoying |
| 15:52.49 | languish | on the 22nd, t-mobile stores within 3g areas start selling the T-mobile G1 |
| 15:52.51 | Cedric2 | anyone who's played a bit with automatic screen rotation knows that it's very unreliable |
| 15:53.14 | Cedric2 | It tends to rotate when you don't want to |
| 15:53.19 | languish | also on the 22nd, the sun rises, reaches its zenith, and sets |
| 15:53.23 | Cedric2 | or behave just erratically on horizontal surfaces or near big monitors |
| 15:53.34 | VickiWong | languish: i heard thats just a rumor... |
| 15:53.41 | languish | yeah, I hate auto screen rotation on digial cameras |
| 15:54.16 | languish | VickiWong, yeah.. it is. The truth is the sun doesn't go anywhere, we just sit and spin. |
| 15:54.22 | languish | :/ |
| 15:54.41 | VickiWong | languish: good catch :D |
| 15:54.44 | languish | :) |
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| 15:55.34 | *** join/#android muthu_ (n=Android@59.92.30.208) |
| 15:57.22 | living_sword | how much of the internal memory is available for the apps ? |
| 15:57.33 | VickiWong | anyone noticed on review videos the G1 seems to take quite some time booting up? |
| 15:57.49 | Cedric2 | VickiWong: it's true for the very first times, it goes faster after that |
| 15:57.55 | Cedric2 | s/times/time |
| 15:58.12 | VickiWong | Cedric2: ahh cool was going to ask if it got better |
| 15:59.24 | VickiWong | I wonder how many people are going to use the 'big g' unlock pattern |
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| 16:00.37 | mgc_ | big g unlock`? |
| 16:01.22 | *** part/#android mgc_ (i=magic@cpe.atm4-0-7254.0x535f0b8a.esnxx6.customer.tele.dk) |
| 16:01.47 | languish | I wonder how many people are gonna whine about needing their phone reset because they can't remember their lock pattern |
| 16:01.48 | languish | :| |
| 16:01.57 | languish | or is there a password back up |
| 16:02.04 | Cedric2 | There is not |
| 16:02.09 | languish | which of course, they won't remember anyway |
| 16:02.29 | Cedric2 | You don't solve people the problem of people forgetting something by asking them to remember a second thing |
| 16:03.15 | languish | right, you just shoot them in the head. Like I deserve for forgetting which email address I used to register my nick on freenode back in '06 |
| 16:04.30 | SanMehat | morning |
| 16:04.31 | wastrel | 06 eh, newbie |
| 16:04.49 | languish | wastrel, no, just oldschool elsewhere |
| 16:04.50 | languish | :) |
| 16:05.08 | SanMehat | languish: on furnet? :) |
| 16:05.12 | languish | hellz no |
| 16:05.14 | SanMehat | (sorry i couldn't resist) |
| 16:05.15 | SanMehat | hahaha |
| 16:05.23 | languish | yiffs SanMehat |
| 16:05.27 | SanMehat | bahahaha |
| 16:05.27 | languish | :| |
| 16:05.33 | SanMehat | runs for the hills |
| 16:05.58 | languish | so you run TO where there's more furry creatures? |
| 16:06.01 | languish | o.O |
| 16:06.42 | *** part/#android an_dev (n=PAYAL@host-208-68-238-61.biznesshosting.net) |
| 16:07.22 | SanMehat | touche |
| 16:09.06 | languish | so, has anyone dev'd or come across a polyhedral dice rolling app for android/g1? |
| 16:11.11 | *** join/#android matt_c (n=mcroydon@gozur.sunflowerbroadband.com) |
| 16:11.27 | muthu_ | http://www.boygeniusreport.com/2008/10/16/t-mobile-g1-review/ |
| 16:11.32 | muthu_ | some critical reviews there |
| 16:12.10 | Cedric2 | languish: there is actually such an application on Market :) |
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| 16:24.13 | languish | Cedric2 cool |
| 16:24.19 | languish | i figured there would be |
| 16:24.26 | languish | bit better to ask :) |
| 16:24.59 | Cedric2 | It's called TableTop, try it when you get your phone |
| 16:26.29 | languish | nod |
| 16:26.33 | languish | likely will |
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| 16:48.31 | jasta | so when do we get details on just how to put apps on the market? |
| 16:51.38 | muthu_ | it has to come this week |
| 16:53.46 | jasta | i would think so, but then...i have no idea |
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| 16:53.57 | jasta | you'd think they'd release documentation early so folks could get ready |
| 16:54.05 | jasta | so you'd be all ready to go |
| 16:54.18 | muthu_ | but so far everything is a surprise |
| 16:54.28 | muthu_ | so on friday market arrives ;) |
| 16:56.47 | jasta | hey does anyone at google know if there are some performance benchmarks on SparseArray versus HashMap? |
| 16:57.24 | jasta | does it contain any magic i wouldn't expect or is it just a binary search tree? |
| 16:59.49 | Cedric2 | jasta: how about doing a google search? :) |
| 17:00.34 | SanMehat | a what search? :) |
| 17:01.23 | tethridge | did you guys see the article talking about the unlock program may be easily defeated if the user has an oily finger? |
| 17:01.50 | tethridge | make sure you wipe your screen before you leave it. |
| 17:01.59 | tethridge | :-) |
| 17:02.40 | muthu_ | if that's the case indians can't use it :)) |
| 17:02.46 | muthu_ | lol |
| 17:03.11 | muthu_ | pass the G1 here and steal our passwords ;) |
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| 17:03.52 | *** part/#android ThAniK (n=ThAniK@117.47.2.70) |
| 17:12.42 | jasta | Cedric2: Your search - sparearray versus hashmap - did not match any documents. ? :) |
| 17:12.47 | jasta | err typo :) |
| 17:13.07 | jasta | but i'm not looking for a general comparison of the idea of a SparseArray |
| 17:13.20 | jasta | i want to know what it's android.util.SparseArray, specifically it running under Dalvik |
| 17:13.51 | romainguy | what abotu SparseArray? |
| 17:13.58 | romainguy | ah |
| 17:14.11 | romainguy | SparseArray performance is on par with HashMap |
| 17:14.16 | romainguy | sometimes better |
| 17:15.44 | zhobbs | romainguy: should this work? <TableRow android:background="@android:drawable/list_selector_background" android:selectable="true" android:focusable="true"> ... </TableRow> |
| 17:16.00 | zhobbs | I want the whole row to give visual feedback when touched |
| 17:16.08 | romainguy | android:selectable doesn't exist afaik |
| 17:16.27 | romainguy | other than that, yes it should work |
| 17:16.32 | romainguy | I know several people have done it already |
| 17:17.52 | *** join/#android jeld (n=jeld@dominick.nat.trb.com) |
| 17:17.56 | jeld | hello all |
| 17:18.36 | jeld | anybody knows whassup with the eclipse plugin repository? |
| 17:18.58 | jasta | ? |
| 17:19.24 | jeld | jasta, get a "Not Found" |
| 17:19.31 | jeld | https://dl-ssl.google.com/android/eclipse/ |
| 17:19.33 | jasta | maybe theyre updating to a new version soon? |
| 17:19.39 | jeld | jasta, ? |
| 17:19.46 | zhobbs | it's always given a 404 in the browser |
| 17:19.50 | zhobbs | but works in eclipse |
| 17:20.10 | umdk1d3 | https://dl-ssl.google.com/android/eclipse/site.xml |
| 17:20.14 | jeld | zhobbs, eclipse tells me there is no repository on this URL |
| 17:20.15 | umdk1d3 | yea its working fine |
| 17:20.34 | jeld | weird |
| 17:24.28 | ttuttle | Hey, if I want to do an HTTP request in the background, do I just spawn another thread? |
| 17:24.41 | muthu_ | yes |
| 17:24.51 | ttuttle | Anything special to do? |
| 17:24.56 | muthu_ | no |
| 17:24.59 | ttuttle | Okay. |
| 17:25.03 | muthu_ | k |
| 17:25.47 | muthu_ | jeld: try http |
| 17:26.00 | muthu_ | https fails for some weirdo reasons |
| 17:26.22 | zhobbs | romainguy: my TableRow has an ImageView and a TextView in it, and using that selector as a background for the ImageView or TextView works, but not on the TableRow |
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| 17:41.18 | muthu_ | zhobbs: there's this selection/focus problems, that no one understands |
| 17:51.06 | romainguy | muthu_: it's simple, no selection/focus in touch mode |
| 17:51.29 | romainguy | zhobbs: you have two solutions |
| 17:51.54 | romainguy | 1. set the row focusable/clickable and set its children non focusable |
| 17:51.55 | romainguy | or |
| 17:52.01 | romainguy | 2. keep everything the way it is |
| 17:52.05 | romainguy | and add a new attribute on the row |
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| 17:53.15 | romainguy | android:addStatesFromChildren="true" |
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| 18:00.45 | zhobbs | romainguy: great, thanks! I'll have to remember that "addStatesFromChildren" attribute |
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| 18:01.06 | romainguy___ | there's the opposite as well |
| 18:01.11 | romainguy___ | duplicateStateFromParent |
| 18:02.08 | zhobbs | ok, good to know |
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| 18:08.48 | umdk1d3 | yay got thinkpad back from repair |
| 18:09.03 | umdk1d3 | settles down to a nice afternoon of gentooing |
| 18:09.25 | f00f- | not working umdk1d3 ? |
| 18:09.39 | umdk1d3 | well i can multitask ;) |
| 18:09.44 | f00f- | oh hahaha |
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| 18:19.01 | zhobbs | umdk1d3: I used to do the source based distros....just don't have time anymore |
| 18:19.17 | zhobbs | might have to go back to it though |
| 18:22.49 | *** join/#android DubLo7 (n=DubLo7@phantom-eth2-34.tcnet.org) |
| 18:23.00 | umdk1d3 | i did debian for the longest time, but really got fed up with breaking my repos |
| 18:23.13 | umdk1d3 | always seemed to get horridly stuck with some unworkable config |
| 18:23.21 | umdk1d3 | and any time you needed to really get under the hood, it was hard |
| 18:23.28 | zhobbs | it seems like a pain to compile stuff from source in ubuntu...maybe I just don't know enough about ubuntu |
| 18:23.39 | *** join/#android michaelnovakjr_ (n=mnovak@204.141.14.170) |
| 18:23.47 | umdk1d3 | like a custom kernel option, or compiling a package with a patch |
| 18:23.56 | umdk1d3 | isnt there apt-src or something? |
| 18:25.04 | zhobbs | don't really know...ubuntu doesn't force you do do anything under the hood, so I feel like I never learn the internals |
| 18:25.37 | gdsx | has a very strong dislike for ubuntu |
| 18:25.52 | gdsx | it tries to hard to be helpful and gets in the way while doing so |
| 18:25.57 | gdsx | too* |
| 18:27.01 | umdk1d3 | zhobbs: yea ubuntu is awesome if you just need linux |
| 18:27.34 | f00f- | just tar zxvf ; make bleh |
| 18:27.38 | f00f- | override the .deb |
| 18:27.48 | f00f- | i think you can install some metapackage |
| 18:27.52 | gdsx | equivs |
| 18:27.53 | f00f- | to have it ignore kernel updates from repo's |
| 18:28.15 | *** part/#android DubLo7 (n=DubLo7@phantom-eth2-34.tcnet.org) |
| 18:28.20 | gdsx | oh, for kernels? I just remove all the kernel packages and do things myself, yeah |
| 18:30.35 | VickiWong | does android store the users home country? and are we able to get at that info |
| 18:30.57 | gdsx | VickiWong: what do you mean by "home country"? |
| 18:31.03 | michaelnovakjr_ | what's up with the kill switch? |
| 18:31.19 | VickiWong | gdsx: the users home country, the ocuntry where they live |
| 18:31.44 | VickiWong | gdsx: basically im trying to look out for when the user leaves their home country |
| 18:32.14 | VickiWong | ie travelling abriad |
| 18:32.16 | gdsx | VickiWong: I could see a SIM having a home country (in which case, I don't know), but I don't think a phone would. If you're actually asking "can I tell when the phone is roaming?", then I don't know |
| 18:32.18 | VickiWong | abroad* |
| 18:32.39 | VickiWong | gdsx: ahh thought maybe they might have rehistered a country when making an account |
| 18:32.46 | VickiWong | registered* |
| 18:33.13 | romainguy___ | michaelnovakjr_: imagine there's a bad application out there that destroys or steals people's data |
| 18:33.29 | michaelnovakjr_ | understandable |
| 18:34.14 | michaelnovakjr_ | amazon mp3 is slick |
| 18:34.26 | jasta | hey michaelnovakjr_ |
| 18:34.30 | michaelnovakjr_ | hey |
| 18:34.33 | michaelnovakjr_ | how's it going? |
| 18:34.58 | jasta | great, almost got playlist sync support in |
| 18:35.04 | michaelnovakjr_ | nice |
| 18:35.13 | michaelnovakjr_ | i've been plugging away at the win server |
| 18:35.36 | jasta | excellent, i think that umdk1d3 may be interested in your work |
| 18:35.50 | jasta | although he is apparently totally insane so i'm not sure if he will be able to help at all :) |
| 18:35.51 | michaelnovakjr_ | he needs a win server? |
| 18:35.59 | jasta | he wanted to work on that too, i think |
| 18:36.05 | michaelnovakjr_ | ah |
| 18:36.18 | jasta | looks over at umdk1d3 for a moment |
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| 18:36.28 | MrSnowflake | how can i make a view grow with an animation and keep it's size like it is after the animation |
| 18:37.25 | VickiWong | is the google account you have to register when using android just a standard google account? |
| 18:37.44 | Dougie187 | afiak its a gmail account |
| 18:37.58 | Dougie187 | i believe i read that somewhere |
| 18:38.22 | VickiWong | if thats the case then the user does enter a lcoation country, just need to find out how to access that info now :) |
| 18:38.23 | Disconnect | all google accounts are gmail accounts, basically. |
| 18:38.43 | VickiWong | Disconnect: good news :) |
| 18:38.59 | Dougie187 | Disconnect: what if you just setup an account with google calendar. |
| 18:39.08 | VickiWong | anyone know if we are able to access this data in our apps or not? |
| 18:39.34 | Disconnect | i'm sad tho - can't move my google reader stuff over to my other account. and i'm with (gizmodo reviewer maybe?) on the need to integrate multiple google accounts for (eg) personal and work |
| 18:40.25 | Disconnect | Dougie187: its still foohead@gmail.com and gets email |
| 18:40.52 | Dougie187 | well you don't need a gmail account to setup a google calendar account |
| 18:41.02 | Dougie187 | so your google calendar account might not be foohead@gmail.com |
| 18:41.04 | michaelnovakjr_ | Dougie187: and vice versa |
| 18:41.08 | michaelnovakjr_ | it is actually |
| 18:41.12 | unix_lappy | obviously someone has thought of that and decided against it for this iteration. |
| 18:41.29 | Dougie187 | michaelnovakj_: what if you use a campus email or hotmail account to setup a google calendar account? |
| 18:41.36 | Dougie187 | or even yahoo. |
| 18:41.41 | unix_lappy | though, i'd be surprised if no more than a couple people have multiple gmail accounts. |
| 18:42.16 | Dougie187 | unix_lappy: heh yeah. i mean i have 3 of them... and my wife has 2. |
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| 18:43.41 | wastrel | i have 1 |
| 18:43.45 | _avatar | michaelnovakjr_: out of curiosity, where did you try amazonmp3? do you have a device? |
| 18:44.00 | michaelnovakjr_ | i didn't try it, i saw the app in screenshots .... zdnet review |
| 18:44.03 | _avatar | ah ok |
| 18:44.54 | michaelnovakjr_ | awesome idea |
| 18:45.00 | michaelnovakjr_ | i prefer amazon mp3 |
| 18:45.12 | _avatar | me too. |
| 18:45.17 | _avatar | but i wrote the app so i'm biased :P |
| 18:45.39 | michaelnovakjr_ | you wrote the amazon mp3 app for android? |
| 18:45.44 | _avatar | yeah |
| 18:45.49 | michaelnovakjr_ | who do you work for? |
| 18:45.56 | _avatar | amazonmp3 |
| 18:45.57 | morrildl | VickiWong: You can use a gmail account, or a Google Apps for Your Domain account |
| 18:45.59 | michaelnovakjr_ | ah cool |
| 18:46.21 | _avatar | hey morrildl, how goes? :) |
| 18:46.24 | morrildl | VickiWong: for instance, I use mine with my @google.com account |
| 18:46.31 | morrildl | Busy as hell this week, _avatar :) |
| 18:46.43 | VickiWong | morrildl: ahh cool, do you know if we can get the users google account? ie their registered location |
| 18:46.45 | _avatar | i'll bet! |
| 18:46.54 | VickiWong | morrildl: ahh cool, do you know if we can get the users google account? ie their registered location |
| 18:46.57 | VickiWong | woops |
| 18:47.39 | muthu_ | morrildl: when's the market launch? |
| 18:47.56 | morrildl | VickiWong: I'm not following what you want to do, can you explain in more detail? |
| 18:48.03 | morrildl | muthu_: soon |
| 18:48.19 | muthu_ | this week? |
| 18:48.39 | VickiWong | morrildl: yeah sorry that was pretty bad (late here :D) I am trying to get hold of the user's home location(country). I know when a user registers a google account for the phone they input their location |
| 18:48.51 | VickiWong | morrildl: im wanting to find out the users registered location |
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| 18:49.32 | morrildl | VickiWong: Ahhh, I see. I don't believe that information is available via API |
| 18:49.56 | VickiWong | morrildl: i was worried about that :( would have saved the trouble of asking the user to input it again for my app |
| 18:50.04 | morrildl | VickiWong: yeah :( |
| 18:50.14 | VickiWong | morrildl: thanks anyway ;) |
| 18:50.31 | morrildl | VickiWong: np |
| 18:54.33 | umdk1d3 | ooh! |
| 18:54.36 | umdk1d3 | goes to pester _avatar ;) |
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| 18:54.53 | umdk1d3 | _avatar: ive been trying to find someone at amazon to figure out what intents your app responds to |
| 18:55.08 | umdk1d3 | say, for instance, we wanted to send someone over your way to find a perticular artist or album |
| 18:56.07 | umdk1d3 | i found one instance of someone launching an intent that your app /might/ be picking up: |
| 18:56.13 | umdk1d3 | { http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_ss_gw?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=%22Business%20Time%22%20and%20%22Flight%20Of%20The%20Conchords%22 } |
| 18:57.50 | _avatar | umdk1d3: i'm not sure what i can and can't say at this point (NDA's are fun!), but if you go poking around you may be able to find an intent to invoke searching ;) |
| 18:58.29 | umdk1d3 | :/ |
| 18:58.32 | romainguy___ | umdk1d3: adb shell dumpsys might list all the intents |
| 18:58.35 | romainguy___ | I'm not sure though |
| 18:58.49 | umdk1d3 | i dont even have the mp3 app >:/ |
| 18:59.38 | morrildl | romainguy___: yes, the amazonmp3 is only on the G1 system image :) |
| 18:59.51 | morrildl | Stop taunting our developers! :) |
| 18:59.53 | umdk1d3 | kicks eng builds |
| 18:59.55 | romainguy___ | I thought umdk1d3 had a G1 :) |
| 19:00.10 | romainguy___ | ah doh |
| 19:00.11 | romainguy___ | yes |
| 19:00.14 | romainguy___ | eng build :p |
| 19:00.54 | umdk1d3 | someone /could/ pass me an apk tho ;) |
| 19:02.19 | *** join/#android |Rob (n=rob@93-96-140-104.zone4.bethere.co.uk) |
| 19:03.02 | |Rob | hi, is there anyway to listen for the enter button to be pressed with a edittext? I'm not sure which listener would do the trick |
| 19:04.49 | unix_lappy | wonders if umdk1d3 got an extra special PM ;-) |
| 19:05.38 | VickiWong | this is probably a dum bquestion, but is there a way to get two buttons side by side to fill the parent? fill_parent works fine for one button |
| 19:05.55 | VickiWong | but when using two buttons sidebyside seems i can only give it definate sizes |
| 19:06.04 | VickiWong | give it = give them |
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| 19:06.47 | wastrel | giving them weights doesn't work? |
| 19:06.53 | romainguy___ | VickiWong: give them both a width of 0dip and layout_weight="1.0" |
| 19:06.59 | romainguy___ | if you are using a LinearLayout that is |
| 19:07.23 | VickiWong | romainguy___: using a relative |
| 19:07.36 | romainguy___ | you can't really do that with a RelativeLayout |
| 19:07.52 | VickiWong | yeah thats the conclusion i reached to, was hoping i missed something :D |
| 19:09.09 | VickiWong | goes off to look into linear layouts |
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| 19:17.11 | |rob | hmm |
| 19:17.23 | |rob | tried a onkeylistener, but now I cant enter any text |
| 19:17.54 | MrSnowflake | |rob: I tried calling view.onKey... in the onKeyListener, but it crashed my program.. :s |
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| 19:19.37 | VickiWong | anyone else find the emu takes forever to get past the booting phase? or is this laptop not powerful enough |
| 19:20.15 | MrSnowflake | @VickiWong: it takes a while but not that long (@1.5ghz c2d) |
| 19:20.15 | |rob | mine fails on the first try but loads like a champ on the 2nd go |
| 19:20.17 | umdk1d3 | VickiWong: the first time ive noticed that, as its unpacking the system image |
| 19:20.26 | |rob | it always happens, since I tried it heh |
| 19:20.31 | unix_lappy | VickiWong: it's about 10 seconds. |
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| 19:20.50 | unix_lappy | (on a 2.4 ghz c2d w/ plenty of memory) |
| 19:21.06 | MrSnowflake | unix_lappy: showoff :p |
| 19:21.07 | |rob | yay, setOnKeyListener did the trick |
| 19:21.25 | MrSnowflake | ? |
| 19:21.31 | |rob | for my edittext issue |
| 19:21.55 | MrSnowflake | when you do setonkeylistener? |
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| 19:22.31 | |rob | view foo = (view) r.find.byid(some_resource); foo.setonkeyListener.... |
| 19:22.51 | MrSnowflake | k |
| 19:23.39 | VickiWong | takes around 22 seconds for me, and i have only changed a buttons width since last running the emu, (AMD turion X2 TL-58 and 2GB ram) |
| 19:24.07 | unix_lappy | MrSnowflake: 50 bucks in processing power does not a show off make. |
| 19:24.42 | unix_lappy | i like my 1.7 ghz T42 a lot better than this T61 anyhow :-P |
| 19:25.15 | *** join/#android tomgibara (i=Miranda@gibara.demon.co.uk) |
| 19:25.22 | tomgibara | hi all |
| 19:26.00 | zhobbs | hi tomgibara |
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| 19:27.39 | VickiWong | romainguy___: I tried adding (android:layout_width="0dip" and android:layout_weight="1.0") to both buttons in a LinearLayout however that makes both buttons vanish : \ |
| 19:29.56 | jasta | can we see the full layout? |
| 19:31.24 | VickiWong | jasta: let me just put it on a pastebin site |
| 19:31.56 | jasta | k, great |
| 19:32.30 | |rob | :s, if I use TextView.append(someText + "\n"), I can't add anymore text to it |
| 19:32.39 | |rob | the \n causes problems, any ideas why? |
| 19:33.33 | VickiWong | http://pastebin.com/m29796bed |
| 19:34.06 | VickiWong | i probably borked something transitioning from Relative to Linear layouts |
| 19:34.06 | jasta | VickiWong: well, obviously, this is a vertical LinearLayout |
| 19:34.12 | romainguy___ | VickiWong: is the layout horizontal? |
| 19:34.17 | jasta | so what you think weight is going to do for the horizontal dimension i dont know |
| 19:35.19 | jasta | weight is to take up available space along the orientation of the parent. since the orientation of this parent is vertical, weight would only be applicable to height. |
| 19:35.26 | jasta | if you want the button to be as wide as the parent, use width=fill_parent |
| 19:36.52 | VickiWong | one second |
| 19:38.32 | VickiWong | here's what im aiming for the app to look like http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=hulzkz&s=4 but with two buttons side by side where the 'Convert |
| 19:38.37 | VickiWong | button is |
| 19:38.56 | VickiWong | and for them to toegtehr fill the screen (so 50% each) |
| 19:39.32 | jasta | so next a horizontal linearlayout there |
| 19:39.33 | VickiWong | I figured it owuld be a relative layout as apposed to a linear one |
| 19:39.38 | jasta | and pack two buttons with weight=1 width=0 |
| 19:39.48 | jasta | err, nest, not next |
| 19:40.05 | VickiWong | jasta: mah nesting layouts, now theres an idea.... lol |
| 19:40.07 | jasta | do realize that you can nest layouts to achieve more sophisticated effects. |
| 19:40.22 | VickiWong | sorry it's 3:40am, my mind isnt exactly workign at it's peak |
| 19:40.28 | jasta | and in fact, it is absolutely necessary to do for a good portion of your UI :) |
| 19:40.29 | VickiWong | working* |
| 19:40.30 | michaelnovakjr_ | i thought only birds lived in nests? |
| 19:40.52 | |rob | anyone have any clue about my \n problem? |
| 19:41.00 | VickiWong | thanks jasta & romainguy___ :) |
| 19:43.19 | romainguy | |rob: how is your TextView defined? |
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| 19:43.59 | |rob | http://pastebin.com/m2e275701 |
| 19:44.45 | |rob | another problem i have is it's inside a scrollview, but i cant get it to scroll down |
| 19:44.57 | romainguy | because you use a specific height |
| 19:45.06 | romainguy | the height should be wrap_content |
| 19:45.19 | jasta | blech |
| 19:45.31 | jasta | |rob: never hardcode dimensions like this unless you really know what you're doing |
| 19:45.33 | romainguy | the width should be fill_parent too |
| 19:45.43 | romainguy | and the layout_x and layout_y are useless in a scroll view |
| 19:45.52 | |rob | i'm using a absolutelayout, and it seems to need them |
| 19:46.03 | ttuttle | Is there any advantage to using a ContentProvider as opposed to my own specialized "view" class? |
| 19:46.05 | jasta | don't use an absolutelayout either |
| 19:46.07 | romainguy | you just said TextVew was in a ScrolView? |
| 19:46.31 | jasta | ttuttle: a content provider allows other apps to access your data. |
| 19:46.36 | jasta | ttuttle: any other solution does not |
| 19:46.55 | jasta | except, i suppose, storing your data in a public way but that would be very clumsy |
| 19:46.56 | ttuttle | jasta: Hmm. |
| 19:47.03 | romainguy | that plus it gives you a framework for data manipulation |
| 19:47.12 | romainguy | and several APIs can take advantage of it |
| 19:47.19 | ttuttle | Okay. |
| 19:47.21 | romainguy | like the ContentObserver |
| 19:47.21 | jasta | yes, such as ImageView which is convenient |
| 19:47.48 | MrSnowflake | guys, I want to scale an ImageView but I want to keep it's size after the animation the same, how should I do this? |
| 19:48.29 | romainguy | MrSnowflake: set fillAfter to true on the animation |
| 19:48.35 | jasta | ttuttle: i use ContentProviders even if i don't expect my data will be of interest to anyone |
| 19:48.40 | jasta | just to have that option without a redesign is nice |
| 19:48.51 | MrSnowflake | Romainguy: I believe I tried that..., I try again for u :) |
| 19:49.07 | jasta | hehe "for u" romain :) |
| 19:49.13 | ttuttle | romainguy: Should I wrap it in my own class that returns things in a more convenient form? |
| 19:49.19 | romainguy | ContentProviders are also really nice for possible future integration |
| 19:49.58 | jasta | the major disadvantage of ContentProviders, however, is that they are very clumsy to implement generally. |
| 19:50.14 | romainguy | I didn't find so |
| 19:50.20 | romainguy | at least when you have a database behind |
| 19:50.28 | romainguy | but you can always rely on ArrayListCursor for instance |
| 19:50.59 | jasta | well, in my case, i have loads of stupid specialized content uris to get various degrees of efficiency out of my queries |
| 19:51.50 | jasta | for example, there is a way to query songs, but sometimes you want a query that left joins songs to artist and album tables to get all the info at once |
| 19:51.54 | jasta | same with playlists |
| 19:52.21 | jasta | but you dont want the general query to do this join. so you have to conditionalize the hell out of things either based on lots of contenturis or by checking the "where" clause and figuring out what columns were requested |
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| 19:52.43 | MrSnowflake | hmm strange, it did work (obviously as romain said it), I'm pretty sure I tried something like that. |
| 19:52.57 | MrSnowflake | but the something wasn't good enough aparently... |
| 19:53.09 | |rob | jasta: what layout would you recommend? |
| 19:53.27 | jasta | i use LinearLayout almost exclusively throughout my applications. |
| 19:53.38 | romainguy | RelativeLayout is also very useful sometimes |
| 19:53.41 | jasta | RelativeLayout ocassionally, and subclasses of FrameLayout when i need fancier things |
| 19:53.45 | romainguy | to flatten a hierarchy |
| 19:56.16 | jasta | most every type of intuitive layout can be thought of in terms of LinearLayout, and so that's a great place to start. |
| 19:57.01 | jasta | but christ, do not use AbsoluteLayout for non-static layouts. that should only be used when you truly wish to restrict the dimensions and positions of logical items, such as images or something when you dont want stretching |
| 19:58.44 | |rob | the reason im using it is because the layout is static, it wont change, but the text will scroll |
| 19:59.15 | |rob | gah, when i press enter, the event gets sent twice to the system |
| 19:59.55 | jasta | no, you're wrong |
| 20:00.23 | jasta | if i get a phone with a screen twice as wide, should your app sit in a small corner of my screen? |
| 20:00.33 | jasta | likewise, if i get a phone with half the screen width, should your app be unusable? |
| 20:01.13 | jasta | this is why static layouts are a terrible idea. you are binding your app to very particular screen configurations, and users will kill you when the crop of android devices becomes more diverse |
| 20:01.17 | zhobbs | I like RelativeLayouts a lot |
| 20:01.50 | umdk1d3 | here goes /me crosses fingers for getting kernel right on first try |
| 20:03.45 | umdk1d3 | yay panic free, and most everything appears to be working ^.^ |
| 20:06.41 | Disconnect | anyone want to answer a g1 question? wondering if sms's are backed up to gmail or not. |
| 20:07.13 | jasta | god i hope not :() |
| 20:07.14 | jasta | erm :( |
| 20:07.17 | |rob | jasta: good point, I didn't think of that >.< |
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| 20:08.03 | Disconnect | alternately, does it ship with a backup/restore app? cuz if not.. thats a big gap |
| 20:08.34 | umdk1d3 | if they implemented sms stuff as a contentprovider, it wouldnt be hard to write a backup app |
| 20:09.30 | Disconnect | for backup/restore i'm thinking everything, not just sms. the basic standard "i'm going to format you and then expect to come back where i left off" backup app.. |
| 20:09.33 | Terdhex | Does anybody has a sample email application for android? |
| 20:10.39 | tomgibara | Regarding layouts, I find you can go a really long way with one linear layout and judicious use of padding, margins and gravity |
| 20:11.14 | jasta | Terdhex: google wrote one, you'll see it when you get the phone :) |
| 20:12.05 | Cedric2 | 2 actually |
| 20:13.44 | jasta | Cedric2: so, i've bene trying to find out if your e-mail app either supports IMAP IDLE or is open source |
| 20:13.49 | jasta | do you know either? :) |
| 20:14.05 | jasta | Exchange supports IMAP IDLE, and i can't figure out why no one bothers for that quick fix to support push e-mail from exchnage |
| 20:14.59 | jasta | i feel like every smartphone in existence refuses to support IMAP IDLE solely to sell whatever other branded e-mail they have |
| 20:15.29 | jasta | Windows Mobile doesnt support it so they can claim only Exchange can do push, Blackberries make you use their crummy centralized system, ... |
| 20:15.58 | tomgibara | romainguy: When you drag an icon over the 'thumb' to prompt a trashcan, the red fade animates in upwards, it looks slick, how did you approach that? |
| 20:15.58 | jasta | ...is Google different? :) |
| 20:16.58 | jasta | tomgibara: looks to me like its an animation involving a gradient centered in the middle |
| 20:17.28 | jasta | maybe im wrong though. it does look cool, i hadn't noticed it before really |
| 20:17.32 | jasta | looks like an alarm siren somehow |
| 20:17.36 | romainguy___ | tomgibara: what are you interested in? the fade or the translate up? |
| 20:17.43 | romainguy___ | and actually if you look closely |
| 20:18.02 | romainguy___ | if you take the cursor out of the thumb, the animations plays in reverse, but it picks up where it stopped |
| 20:18.10 | romainguy___ | changing the duration of the fade out accordingly |
| 20:18.29 | tomgibara | I had noticed :) (messy to do that with animations, I've found) |
| 20:18.39 | romainguy___ | actually it's in the framework |
| 20:18.43 | romainguy___ | but for one specific animation |
| 20:18.48 | romainguy___ | I plan on adding this for all animations later on |
| 20:18.51 | romainguy___ | anyway |
| 20:18.52 | jasta | yeah, that's actually a disappointing problem with thxte framework |
| 20:19.00 | tomgibara | I suppose I wanted to know if you'd used an animation, or a fancy sort of drawable in the background |
| 20:19.05 | romainguy___ | there are 3 things going on: |
| 20:19.16 | romainguy___ | - the All Apps thumb translates down with an alpha fade out |
| 20:19.18 | jasta | the* |
| 20:19.25 | romainguy___ | - the "delete zone" translates up with an alpha fade in |
| 20:19.38 | romainguy___ | - the "delete zone" animates its background drawable |
| 20:19.47 | romainguy___ | the background drawable is a TransitionDrawable |
| 20:20.01 | *** part/#android Dougie187 (n=doug@144.174.57.3) |
| 20:20.26 | tomgibara | ha, that's what I didn't know about |
| 20:20.38 | romainguy___ | <transition xmlns:android="http://schemas.android.com/apk/res/android"> |
| 20:20.38 | romainguy___ | <PROTECTED> |
| 20:20.38 | romainguy___ | <PROTECTED> |
| 20:20.38 | romainguy___ | </transition> |
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| 20:20.51 | romainguy___ | oops |
| 20:21.02 | romainguy___ | anyway |
| 20:21.10 | romainguy___ | that's an android.graphics.drawable.TransitionDrawable |
| 20:21.22 | tomgibara | Thanks for that, somehow I'd totally missed that class |
| 20:21.24 | romainguy___ | you can call things like startTransition() or reverseTransition() on it |
| 20:21.50 | zhobbs | is that how the calculator buttons are done? |
| 20:22.00 | tomgibara | So you use that for making the list items glow on a long click too? |
| 20:22.49 | romainguy___ | that's correct |
| 20:22.56 | jasta | a transitiondrawable? i'd never seen that either |
| 20:22.58 | romainguy___ | zhobbs: no :) |
| 20:23.11 | tomgibara | romainguy___: :) mystery solved, thanks |
| 20:23.17 | romainguy___ | I also used that transition drawable in my yet to be released bookshelf application |
| 20:23.23 | romainguy___ | when you scroll I show dummy covers |
| 20:23.26 | jasta | so i wanted to run something by you romain... |
| 20:23.30 | romainguy___ | when the scroll stops I transition to the real cover |
| 20:23.41 | jasta | in my stream progress bar, i have the secondary progress bar "fade out" when the download is done |
| 20:24.05 | jasta | i accomplish this with a ViewSwitcher and two identical ProgressBars, except the bottom one has no secondary progress, then switch with fade_out/fade_in. |
| 20:24.19 | jasta | but that seemed pretty aggressive to me, is there a simpler way i could accomplish this? |
| 20:24.34 | romainguy___ | yes |
| 20:24.38 | romainguy___ | let me check something |
| 20:25.20 | romainguy___ | yeah so you could just create your own progress drawable |
| 20:25.25 | romainguy___ | it's a layer-list of drawables |
| 20:25.29 | jasta | i already have, actually |
| 20:25.46 | romainguy___ | then you could just fade out the drawable that represents the secondary progress |
| 20:26.29 | jasta | hmm. i created the drawable using XML |
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| 20:26.40 | jasta | it's just a <shape>? would i need to subclass ProgressBar to get at the drawable to fade it? |
| 20:27.00 | romainguy___ | the layer drawable, if I recall correctly, lets you find a drawable by id |
| 20:27.10 | romainguy___ | so you could just grab it without subclassing ProgressBar |
| 20:27.26 | jasta | hang on, let me play with the API for a minute to get a handle on what youre saying :) |
| 20:27.41 | romainguy___ | it's after all what ProgressBar does |
| 20:27.49 | romainguy___ | it finds the sub-drawables to change their levels |
| 20:28.52 | ttuttle | romainguy___: /me wants wireless adb so I can listen to music on my Dream while I develop. |
| 20:29.06 | romainguy | ttuttle: just buy a USB splitter |
| 20:29.12 | ttuttle | romainguy: Yeah, I should. |
| 20:29.19 | romainguy | or better yet |
| 20:29.26 | ttuttle | Implement wireless adb? |
| 20:29.29 | romainguy | enable USB mass storage |
| 20:29.39 | ttuttle | romainguy: Yeah but I don't have headphones for my computer, just the HTC headphones. |
| 20:29.40 | romainguy | and listen to the G1's MP3 from your computer... |
| 20:29.51 | ttuttle | s/HTC headphones/HTC earphones/; |
| 20:30.06 | |rob | Eclipse seems to have a bad memory leak, ram usage went from 100MB to 1.2GB, and still on the same project |
| 20:30.38 | jasta | oh, duh |
| 20:30.44 | jasta | getCurrentDrawable() |
| 20:31.28 | ttuttle | |rob: Funny, vim, bash, and ant don't do that :-) |
| 20:32.09 | VickiWong | +1 for vim |
| 20:32.17 | ttuttle | vim rocks. |
| 20:33.25 | ttuttle | is really enjoying hacking on his laptop with his ##### G1 attached by USB. It's a great workflow. |
| 20:33.42 | VickiWong | bleh @ G1 owners |
| 20:33.50 | VickiWong | when do we get the G1 in HK :D |
| 20:33.55 | ttuttle | VickiWong: Oh, be patient. |
| 20:33.59 | ttuttle | VickiWong: Or get someone to mail you one. |
| 20:34.07 | ttuttle | VickiWong: You know how often the US has to wait for cool gadgets? |
| 20:34.47 | VickiWong | ttuttle: meh i dont think we are even going to get the G1 out here |
| 20:35.12 | wastrel | well i don't even know if i'm going to be able to get one :] |
| 20:35.24 | wastrel | the guy at the store said the open at 8 and he expects to sell out |
| 20:35.32 | unix_lappy | VickiWong: in all liklihood you'll get a better device :-P |
| 20:35.40 | unix_lappy | we'll get stuck with the G1, heh. |
| 20:35.44 | VickiWong | unix_lappy: muahaha thats the hope :D |
| 20:36.03 | VickiWong | once China Mobile get their act into gear |
| 20:36.48 | Lenolium | ttuttle: Hey, can you point me to some docs on how to get ant going for these android projects, I'm an emacs guy so eclipse is really bothering me, and I've never done any real java before so ant is very foreign to me. |
| 20:37.50 | jasta | romainguy: how can i leverage the existing AlphaAnimation class to make a drawable animate? I'm looking at AnimationDrawable here as a reference and it seems like a lot of work to build this up? |
| 20:38.14 | jasta | i'd have to schedule each frame of my drawables animation myself? |
| 20:42.21 | ttuttle | Hmm. |
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| 20:42.46 | ttuttle | I'm looking at the Notepad example on how to create a ContentProvider, and I'm confused at the QueryBuilder stuff. In particular, what is the use of the "projection map"? |
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| 20:44.40 | morrildl | ttuttle: it defines the query projection |
| 20:45.11 | tomgibara | tuttle: as in the relational calculus |
| 20:45.26 | morrildl | tomgibara: I thought it was "relational algebra" |
| 20:45.36 | morrildl | WikiPedia will tell us! |
| 20:46.11 | jasta | ttuttle: it's a lame way to translate what column was requested of the contentprovider to what column the contentprovider should request of the database. |
| 20:46.32 | morrildl | tomgibara: hmm, wikipedia has entries on both and I can't parse either, right now :) |
| 20:46.37 | VickiWong | is there a way to give an EditText a default value in XML? i oculdnt find an obvious property |
| 20:46.54 | unix_lappy | almost 4PM, most of our brains are fried at this point. |
| 20:46.57 | unix_lappy | ;-P |
| 20:47.01 | morrildl | VickiWong: android:text="..." |
| 20:47.07 | jasta | for example, "SELECT foo FROM a LEFT JOIN b ON ..." might be ambgiuous if both a and b contain foo, but the ContentProvider has to somehow give a response for "foo", regardless of this ambiguity. so a projection map lets you say that "foo" => "a.foo" |
| 20:47.18 | tomgibara | morrildl: Google tells us: "relational algebra" wins over "relational calculus" by 53,000 to 143,000 |
| 20:47.34 | jasta | it's just a super lame way to "flatten" a relational database to match the ContentProviders design |
| 20:47.40 | tomgibara | (er numbers wrong way round) |
| 20:47.46 | VickiWong | morrildl: see i was looking for android:value :D |
| 20:47.54 | morrildl | VickiWong: heh |
| 20:49.39 | |rob | anyone here about this remote app disabling google has in their app store? |
| 20:49.43 | |rob | s/here/hear |
| 20:49.57 | VickiWong | morrildl: youll know this, when setting an edittext with android:numeric="decimal" are we able to set how many decimal places are allowed, in xml? I have done it in code but wanted to move it to the layout |
| 20:50.00 | unix_lappy | resolves to get some more android work in today! |
| 20:50.26 | VickiWong | unix_lappy: good news :) |
| 20:51.34 | unix_lappy | yea, gotta try out zxing tonight, lot of ideas ;-) |
| 20:53.36 | tomgibara | jasta: Isn't the projection map's primary functionality in this context to ensure that only the data that's required is retrieved? |
| 20:53.50 | tomgibara | I think it's very harsh to call it "super lame" |
| 20:54.13 | jasta | it is super lame, god the whole idea of the contentprovider squishing relational data drives me nuts |
| 20:55.05 | jasta | tomgibara: why would it need to be a map for that? :) |
| 20:55.55 | tomgibara | I need to reacquaint myself with the API, I haven't written a ContentProvider for absolutely ages |
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| 20:59.00 | tomgibara | jasta: Okay, my mistake, I was thinking of the projection array that's passed in to the buildQuery method |
| 20:59.44 | tomgibara | I'm confusing my abstractions (that is what a projection map does within the relational algebra) |
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| 21:08.57 | morrildl | jasta: uh, no |
| 21:09.13 | morrildl | jasta: it's a way to let the developer pick which fields he wants out of a query to a CP |
| 21:09.20 | morrildl | at least, if you're talking about hte method I think yuo are |
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| 21:17.38 | |rob | im having a slight issue with this layout, I have a relativelayout with a scrollview inside it. The scrollview has a textview child. I tried to set the set android:layout_alignRight to align it with another element, but it gives an error. |
| 21:18.07 | |rob | "ERROR Error: No resource found that matches the given name (at 'layout_alignRight' with value '@id/sv2')." |
| 21:18.32 | |rob | the other element definitely has the id sv2 |
| 21:19.03 | |rob | atm, the scrollview extends over the other element |
| 21:23.58 | VickiWong | wth's a G2? :D |
| 21:24.24 | VickiWong | im hopign a joke http://twitter.com/cpurdy |
| 21:30.19 | |rob | course it is, see his profile: " am a famous actor, world renound singer, CEO of a fortune-100 company, jet-setting playboy, and all around fake. But I can code." |
| 21:30.56 | VickiWong | good spot |
| 21:31.07 | unix_lappy | anyone remember the links to the Tmobile data + voice pricing plans for their new 3g network? |
| 21:31.16 | VickiWong | anyone know of an XML parsing example in the API Demos? Im not sure there is one |
| 21:35.22 | VickiWong | nope i dont think there is one, nevermind :D |
| 21:37.08 | Lenolium | VickiWong: The XML libraries are just standard java XML libraries, so you can use any XML tutorial out there. (I know I did) |
| 21:37.41 | VickiWong | Lenolium: see I tried that, and ran into issues with current sdk |
| 21:37.50 | unix_lappy | hmm, looks like 3g coverage in texas is going to be spectacular. |
| 21:38.14 | unix_lappy | (as to compete with at&t) |
| 21:39.14 | VickiWong | Lenolium: I have toruble with getElementsByTagName and getChildNodes if I remember correctly |
| 21:45.39 | morrildl | 129 members, 131 earlier today |
| 21:45.49 | morrildl | I wonder how big this channel will get when source is released |
| 21:46.35 | VickiWong | anyone else have this issue when tryign to parse xml? The method getChildNodes() is undefined for the type Element |
| 21:46.56 | VickiWong | happens with every XML parsing example i can find, mind you i have only tried 5 or 6 |
| 21:46.58 | jasta | morrildl: No, it's not. If it were, it wouldn't be a map of String to String. If you didn't have this ability it would be Very, Very Broken (TM) to use contentproviders and joined tables. |
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| 21:47.36 | VickiWong | same with getElementsByTagName(String |
| 21:48.10 | Lenolium | VickiWong: But the Document element has those. |
| 21:48.45 | VickiWong | Lenolium: as in doc.getDocumentElement ().normalize (); ? |
| 21:49.19 | Lenolium | VickiWong: Just doc.getElementsByTagName(string); |
| 21:50.50 | VickiWong | Lenolium: most of the Java examples I can find seem to be trying to use it with plain Elements as well as the document element, strange |
| 21:52.11 | morrildl | VickiLong are you importing the right Element? There is android.sax.Element, which is different from org.w3c.dom.Element |
| 21:52.28 | morrildl | Oops, that was for VickiWong |
| 21:53.00 | jasta | romainguy: i'm pretty confused about how to fade out a Drawable without essentially reimplementing all the abstractions of AlphaAnimation? |
| 21:54.08 | VickiWong | morrildl: im importing both android.sax.Element and org.w3c.dom.* |
| 21:54.15 | VickiWong | morrildl: could this be causing the issue |
| 21:54.34 | morrildl | VickiWong: Yes |
| 21:54.48 | morrildl | VickiWong: the more specific import will mask the wildcard |
| 21:55.05 | morrildl | and indeed, android.sax.Element has no getElementsByTagName(String), etc. |
| 21:55.29 | VickiWong | see and i have my imports collapsed so i never spot things like that |
| 21:55.58 | morrildl | I'm going to guess you are doing a cast to (Element) from somewhere |
| 21:56.43 | VickiWong | yeah |
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| 22:42.38 | donomo | anyone have an example of parsing JSON in an android app? the package documentation is lacking. http://code.google.com/android/reference/org/json/package-summary.html |
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| 22:52.59 | dmoffett | donomo: This is all I had to do to parse a buffer from an input stream |
| 22:53.08 | dmoffett | try { |
| 22:53.08 | dmoffett | JSONObject jobj = new JSONObject(strBuf.toString()); |
| 22:53.09 | dmoffett | return jobj; |
| 22:53.09 | dmoffett | } catch(JSONException x){ |
| 22:53.09 | dmoffett | Log.e(TAG, x.getMessage()); |
| 22:53.09 | dmoffett | } |
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