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| 02:54.59 | unix_infidel | do i need to have the guest additions installed to get my virtual NIC working? |
| 02:55.29 | unix_infidel | (ubuntu guest, windows host) |
| 02:56.49 | unix_infidel | whoops, wrong chan. |
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| 03:15.10 | muthu | erre |
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| 04:44.00 | muthu_ | oy |
| 05:15.43 | jasta | *coding* :) |
| 05:18.05 | yakischloba | jksdfds |
| 05:23.55 | Kraln | <PROTECTED> |
| 05:23.57 | Kraln | woot. |
| 05:26.00 | jasta | <PROTECTED> |
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| 05:27.54 | jasta | <PROTECTED> |
| 05:27.54 | jasta | base |
| 05:28.01 | Kraln | hmm. |
| 05:28.04 | Kraln | http://i33.tinypic.com/2hgqxkg.png |
| 05:28.07 | jasta | oh and |
| 05:28.10 | jasta | <PROTECTED> |
| 05:28.13 | jasta | you got nothin' ;P |
| 05:28.24 | jasta | these are all production servers btw. |
| 05:28.29 | Kraln | yeah, so is mine |
| 05:28.46 | duey | pft 137 days |
| 05:28.49 | Kraln | my load average is much higher than yours |
| 05:28.50 | jasta | except, the 137 is actually my personal server at home. terabyte raid5 :) |
| 05:28.54 | Kraln | better resource usage. |
| 05:28.57 | duey | <PROTECTED> |
| 05:28.59 | Kraln | than any of your boxes |
| 05:29.03 | yakischloba | wow im kind of proud of myself |
| 05:29.04 | yakischloba | <PROTECTED> |
| 05:29.08 | Kraln | now, see, duey's I can respect |
| 05:29.10 | yakischloba | never would have thought |
| 05:29.12 | jasta | duey ftw |
| 05:29.12 | Kraln | his machine has been doing stuff. |
| 05:29.22 | Kraln | I see it as duey > kraln > * |
| 05:29.27 | Kraln | =p |
| 05:29.41 | Kraln | duey: what machine is that, and what os? |
| 05:29.41 | duey | it seriously needs a reboot |
| 05:29.46 | duey | but the uptime is to awesome |
| 05:29.49 | duey | its debian |
| 05:29.51 | duey | etch |
| 05:29.55 | duey | in a data center |
| 05:30.00 | yakischloba | wonders what uptimes he could find on his network |
| 05:30.00 | Kraln | what does it do? |
| 05:30.06 | duey | its my personal box |
| 05:30.12 | duey | does email/web/stuff |
| 05:30.15 | Kraln | granted, but what does it do |
| 05:30.19 | Kraln | to give it that load |
| 05:30.22 | Kraln | or is it underpowered |
| 05:30.23 | muthu_ | http://in.youtube.com/watch?v=HuwhTmM_QGQ&NR=1 |
| 05:30.29 | jasta | Kraln: maybe my systems are just more efficient and need not waste so much time because of poor administration? :) |
| 05:30.34 | duey | Kraln, hosts a few websites |
| 05:30.39 | duey | friends etc |
| 05:30.46 | duey | I think some of them are quite popular |
| 05:31.31 | Kraln | jasta: uh, no? if your system load is consistently low, and you have 2+ machines, you're making poor use of your resources |
| 05:31.48 | yakischloba | Kraln: it's called mission critical redundancy ;) |
| 05:31.58 | Kraln | yakischloba: no, not really |
| 05:31.59 | duey | does system load take into account I/o wait? |
| 05:32.04 | Kraln | duey: yes |
| 05:32.17 | duey | heh then |
| 05:32.21 | Kraln | it's a rough measure of how long things wait to get cpu time |
| 05:32.31 | duey | <PROTECTED> |
| 05:32.31 | duey | <PROTECTED> |
| 05:32.46 | Kraln | lol |
| 05:32.52 | yakischloba | We have two commodore amiga's at our datacenter. If there was any correlation between age and uptime, I'd probably have a winner lol |
| 05:32.57 | jasta | see, good production machines should not be over-utilized. |
| 05:32.58 | duey | <PROTECTED> |
| 05:32.58 | duey | <PROTECTED> |
| 05:33.09 | duey | (it just had software updates) |
| 05:33.12 | Kraln | there, that is a server doing its part. |
| 05:33.25 | yakischloba | I see machines with load averages of like |
| 05:33.26 | yakischloba | 20 |
| 05:33.28 | duey | :| |
| 05:33.33 | duey | that's bad |
| 05:33.36 | yakischloba | granted you can barely use a shell on them ;) |
| 05:33.42 | Kraln | I had a machine with 4 cores that'd get up to 20 |
| 05:33.44 | yakischloba | yeah. thats our customers. |
| 05:33.45 | Kraln | if they got slammed |
| 05:33.54 | jasta | btw, load averages are based on 1, 5, and 15 minute periods |
| 05:34.07 | jasta | so, being 10:30pm on a Friday, it is not hard to see why my work servers haven't seen any action |
| 05:34.13 | Kraln | jasta: protip: load averages are an average cpu load |
| 05:34.14 | duey | yeah same here |
| 05:34.23 | duey | they are all fairly low, weekend |
| 05:35.07 | jasta | Kraln: it's more complex than that, but its based on averages over relatively short periods of time |
| 05:35.22 | jasta | any reasonable average for a production machine would be based on a monthly cycle, not the last 15 minutes |
| 05:35.22 | Kraln | it's not really even averages |
| 05:35.47 | Kraln | my average load average is about 1 |
| 05:35.51 | Kraln | http://i33.tinypic.com/2hgqxkg.png (see top graph) |
| 05:36.21 | jasta | goes back to hacking |
| 05:38.27 | umdk1d3 | hmm |
| 05:38.55 | umdk1d3 | looks for small spinning wheel animation |
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| 05:44.13 | muthu_ | umdk1d3: progress bar? |
| 05:44.37 | jasta | is there any generalization to do a wait for a monitor lock with a timeout not bothered by an interrupt? |
| 05:45.21 | jasta | something to generalize the timeout -= (now - then) if (timeout <= 0) { timed out! } foo.wait(timeout);? |
| 05:45.40 | romainguy_ | look in java.util.concurrent |
| 05:45.44 | romainguy_ | there's everything you need |
| 05:46.26 | jasta | hmm, i've looked before, but didn't find it? |
| 05:48.15 | jasta | what i'm wanting to do is Object#wait up to some timeout, but such that the wait is resumable if interrupted before the timeout has been reached. |
| 05:48.40 | jasta | its a simple like 5 or 6 line loop to do, but feels clumsy not to have been generalized somehow... |
| 05:50.09 | romainguy_ | if a wait is interrupted, there's probably a good reason |
| 05:50.29 | jasta | yeah, probably, but if there wasn't, i still want my code to work as it was designed. |
| 05:50.40 | romainguy_ | that feels really weird to me to do this |
| 05:50.55 | romainguy_ | but it reminds me of the pattern for wait/join |
| 05:51.01 | jasta | why? |
| 05:51.12 | romainguy_ | where you do use a loop with a condition to protect the wait from spurious wakeups |
| 05:51.29 | jasta | right, which is what you should do |
| 05:51.51 | romainguy_ | well reading your code above it seems like you want to ensure you'll wait for a given period of time right? |
| 05:52.21 | jasta | the basic logic is: |
| 05:52.48 | jasta | while (somethingHappened == false) { somethingHappenedLock.wait(timeout); } |
| 05:53.05 | jasta | actually, that doesn't express it well without all the other junk |
| 05:53.22 | romainguy_ | ok, so why the need to check for the timeout if wait was interrupted? |
| 05:53.28 | romainguy_ | ah ok I see |
| 05:53.31 | jasta | what i'm doing is waiting up to 1s for an event to occur |
| 05:53.41 | umdk1d3 | muthu_: perfect :) progressbar works i thought there was an animation or something |
| 05:53.42 | jasta | if the wait is interrupted before 1s, and the event has not occurred, i want to *keep waiting8 |
| 05:54.00 | romainguy_ | which is what you do with the while (!somethinghappened) already |
| 05:54.04 | jasta | in particular, if woken up 500ms in, i want to wait with a timeout of another 500ms. |
| 05:54.09 | romainguy_ | but you might wait for more than 1s |
| 05:54.22 | jasta | romainguy_: except that if the event DOESNT occur after 1s, i want to abort and give up. |
| 05:55.11 | romainguy_ | yeah I got that |
| 05:55.32 | jasta | the logic is really simple. you just take the current time, measure it after the wait and if the condition is false, and wait the remaining time |
| 05:55.46 | romainguy_ | er, yes, that's what you wrote above |
| 05:55.51 | jasta | but it also makes a very simple expression of a timed wait into something much longer. |
| 05:56.02 | jasta | and not very general |
| 05:56.29 | jasta | not really sure how i'd generalize this... |
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| 06:22.18 | umdk1d3 | hmm i think i ran into this before, but is there a way of forcing an activity into touch mode instead of kbdmode? |
| 06:22.26 | umdk1d3 | last time i think i didnt find a solution :/ |
| 06:22.50 | romainguy_ | umdk1d3: easy, don't |
| 06:23.25 | umdk1d3 | well its going into the activity in keyboard mode, which is selecting my footerview by default |
| 06:23.40 | umdk1d3 | when i refresh the adapter with the "page" of results, it keeps the original footer view selected |
| 06:23.46 | umdk1d3 | which continues triggering ALL the next-pages :/ |
| 06:23.53 | umdk1d3 | but in touch mode, it stays at the top of the list |
| 06:23.55 | romainguy_ | then set the selection to the position 0 |
| 06:24.01 | romainguy_ | but do NOT try to force touch mode |
| 06:24.04 | romainguy_ | just don't |
| 06:24.07 | umdk1d3 | kk |
| 06:24.15 | romainguy_ | or I'll personally come kick your butt :) |
| 06:24.27 | umdk1d3 | :P |
| 06:25.10 | umdk1d3 | i should have this finished this weekend at some point and then ill gpl it and throw an apk out there |
| 06:25.18 | romainguy_ | your remote? |
| 06:25.21 | romainguy_ | or something different? |
| 06:25.21 | umdk1d3 | yep |
| 06:25.25 | romainguy_ | have you talked to xav? |
| 06:25.30 | romainguy_ | he showed me an app he's working on |
| 06:25.35 | romainguy_ | using zeroconf in pure Java |
| 06:25.40 | umdk1d3 | ooh nice :) |
| 06:25.41 | romainguy_ | thought you might be interested |
| 06:25.46 | jasta | does it work over Wi-Fi? |
| 06:25.48 | umdk1d3 | yea im borrowing the jmdns pure-java mdns package |
| 06:25.54 | umdk1d3 | jasta: yea it kinda /has/ to use wifi |
| 06:25.55 | romainguy_ | that's what he's using |
| 06:26.25 | jasta | umdk1d3: well, it doesn't have to. it could work over EDGE/3G. |
| 06:26.25 | umdk1d3 | ive got it pairing with itunes over the air fine now :) there was somethign wierd in the hotel with my vmware bridge keeping it from working |
| 06:26.37 | umdk1d3 | jasta: lol home stereo control over edge |
| 06:26.50 | umdk1d3 | then youd have to tell them all about port fwding, etc |
| 06:26.55 | jasta | well actually, yes. it wouldn't be that bad, actually |
| 06:27.00 | umdk1d3 | hmm |
| 06:27.16 | jasta | well it certainly wouldn't be a bad idea to support it at some point. remember, Wi-Fi is no guarantee on an Android phone. |
| 06:27.39 | umdk1d3 | hm true |
| 06:27.43 | jasta | not every application has to be easy for dolts to use either. something to keep in mind :) |
| 06:28.27 | jasta | and an easy way to filter out those features is a simple "Oh by the way, check the README for other features." :) |
| 06:28.36 | jasta | filter out those people, i mean. |
| 06:30.05 | romainguy_ | umdk1d3: in case you're interested, I added a new feature to Photostream |
| 06:30.15 | romainguy_ | it shows how an app can "enhance" web sites by responding to their URL |
| 06:30.40 | umdk1d3 | hm so responding to their authority? |
| 06:30.44 | romainguy_ | yes |
| 06:30.46 | umdk1d3 | i could overload google.com! |
| 06:30.46 | umdk1d3 | =D |
| 06:30.48 | umdk1d3 | muihaha |
| 06:30.53 | romainguy_ | in this case, you click a flickr.com/photos/<userid> link and you get to choose between seeing it in the browser or in photostream |
| 06:31.01 | romainguy_ | sure, but you will get a dialog first :)) |
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| 06:31.04 | umdk1d3 | very nice, i was wondering if that was possible for end-users |
| 06:31.12 | umdk1d3 | i know the maps.google.com thing is intercepted |
| 06:31.22 | romainguy_ | all apps are equal :) |
| 06:31.27 | umdk1d3 | ^.^ |
| 06:36.49 | umdk1d3 | hm |
| 06:37.05 | umdk1d3 | so i have my footerview and im View.GONE'ing it, but it still takes up the space in the list |
| 06:37.34 | umdk1d3 | might just do removeFooterView |
| 06:37.36 | umdk1d3 | tries |
| 06:38.01 | romainguy_ | just set the selection to 0 when you get at least one item in the adapter? |
| 06:38.19 | romainguy_ | ah sorry |
| 06:38.21 | romainguy_ | misread |
| 06:38.26 | romainguy_ | yeah ListView doesn't care about GONE |
| 06:38.43 | umdk1d3 | yea ive got that part working now, i just selection=0 on the first page of results thats returned |
| 06:40.08 | umdk1d3 | yay removeFooter worked :) |
| 06:41.21 | umdk1d3 | hmkay something ive been meaning to write for along time is something that loads http images from a separate thread and fills them in as they arrive (into a listview) |
| 06:41.45 | umdk1d3 | currently ive written it as a pair (image->view) that gets thrown off to fetch the image |
| 06:42.09 | umdk1d3 | then a handler takes an event back with the image->view pair and updates them |
| 06:42.18 | romainguy_ | umdk1d3: UserTask is your friend :) |
| 06:42.22 | romainguy_ | it's exactly what Photostream does |
| 06:42.43 | umdk1d3 | but this causes an issue when we recycle views, as a recycled view will be filled with a stale image |
| 06:43.03 | romainguy_ | how so? |
| 06:43.22 | umdk1d3 | peeks at usertask first |
| 06:43.35 | umdk1d3 | so i pass off the imageurl->view to a separate fetching thread |
| 06:43.58 | umdk1d3 | if the user scrolls past and that view happens to be recycled, the thread will shoot off the first image to the now-recycled view |
| 06:43.58 | romainguy_ | you should pass the position instead of the view |
| 06:44.16 | romainguy_ | and then do something list getChildAt(position - getFirstVisiblePosition()) |
| 06:44.19 | romainguy_ | to get the View |
| 06:44.43 | umdk1d3 | oh and check to see if the incoming request is outside of view |
| 06:44.50 | umdk1d3 | *outside of the visible scroll range |
| 06:44.54 | romainguy_ | exactly |
| 06:45.12 | umdk1d3 | okay cool that should work |
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| 06:46.25 | anno^da | Good morning guys. :-) |
| 06:52.07 | umdk1d3 | oh usertask is AWESOME |
| 06:54.40 | romainguy_ | umdk1d3: told you :p |
| 06:55.43 | umdk1d3 | why hasnt it been rolled into the framework yet?! :P |
| 06:55.55 | romainguy_ | I wrote it too late for 1.0 |
| 06:56.00 | romainguy_ | but it's on my list for 1.1 |
| 06:56.15 | romainguy_ | I just need to rename it, clean up the doc a bit and it should be good to go |
| 06:57.08 | umdk1d3 | hmm |
| 06:57.39 | umdk1d3 | ohbtw i couldnt get any of that caching stuff to work :/ |
| 06:57.44 | umdk1d3 | webkit appears to be jealous |
| 06:57.53 | umdk1d3 | *android.webkit.CacheManager that is |
| 06:58.12 | romainguy_ | just make your own cache :p |
| 06:58.27 | umdk1d3 | well yea, i have that written already, but i dont think theres anyway it could use the /cache partition |
| 06:58.40 | romainguy_ | no you probably can't |
| 06:58.45 | romainguy_ | use /sdcard if available |
| 06:58.59 | romainguy_ | or use Context.getCacheDir() or something like that |
| 06:59.10 | umdk1d3 | ooh! maybe we can write to cache then |
| 06:59.38 | romainguy_ | getCacheDir() returns a path to /data if I remember correctly |
| 06:59.40 | romainguy_ | but give it a try |
| 06:59.42 | romainguy_ | maybe I'm wrong |
| 07:00.18 | umdk1d3 | oh ouch :/ |
| 07:01.02 | romainguy_ | at least the cache dir is managed by the system |
| 07:02.07 | umdk1d3 | yea getCacheDir() is in /data |
| 07:02.18 | umdk1d3 | unless its some sort of transparent symlink over to /cache |
| 07:02.24 | romainguy_ | I doubt it |
| 07:03.00 | umdk1d3 | that doesnt make sense tho--we should avoid caching on /data, and yet getCache returns there :P |
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| 07:03.44 | muthu_ | another day.. another ubuntu problem |
| 07:03.53 | muthu_ | scim refuses to work.. any ideas |
| 07:04.00 | umdk1d3 | :( |
| 07:04.13 | muthu_ | man, my hours are spend looking at linux |
| 07:04.29 | muthu_ | install / update / remove / reinstall |
| 07:04.48 | muthu_ | fedora / ubuntu / back to fedora / again ubuntu |
| 07:04.58 | umdk1d3 | muthu_: thats kinda why i swtiched to gentoo |
| 07:05.11 | umdk1d3 | i was always having apt repos get into broken states |
| 07:05.23 | muthu_ | woah gentoo |
| 07:05.24 | umdk1d3 | was a huge headache, esp because i liked to stay on cutting edge of stuff |
| 07:05.35 | muthu_ | gentoo is debian based |
| 07:05.39 | muthu_ | ? |
| 07:05.45 | umdk1d3 | umm lol gentoo is gentoo based :P |
| 07:05.51 | muthu_ | hehe |
| 07:05.59 | romainguy_ | umdk1d3: you can cache on /data with getCacheDir because the cache dir content is cleaned up by the system when storage runs low |
| 07:06.13 | umdk1d3 | but probably not recommended? |
| 07:06.29 | umdk1d3 | hmm |
| 07:06.34 | romainguy_ | taht I don't know |
| 07:06.36 | romainguy_ | ask Dianne |
| 07:06.39 | umdk1d3 | im thinking ill just use getCacheDir() |
| 07:06.46 | umdk1d3 | if it changes to use /cache in the future, perfect ;) |
| 07:06.55 | romainguy_ | I use the sdcard in my books app |
| 07:06.59 | romainguy_ | works fine :) |
| 07:08.09 | umdk1d3 | for the image cache i wrote, it had a db and code to handle deleting old stuff, but i could just rely on getCacheDir() to handle all that |
| 07:08.53 | romainguy_ | db + sdcard is what the pictures app does |
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| 07:13.42 | romainguy_ | http://clanbase.ggl.com/news.php?nid=299290 |
| 07:13.42 | romainguy_ | cool |
| 07:13.45 | romainguy_ | that was a nice game |
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| 07:21.22 | umdk1d3 | gah /me wishes java had tuples |
| 07:21.31 | romainguy_ | well |
| 07:21.35 | romainguy_ | it's not as good |
| 07:21.41 | romainguy_ | but you have varargs :) |
| 07:21.48 | romainguy_ | doesn't work for return values though |
| 07:22.02 | umdk1d3 | exactly, im trying to pass the position+image as a Result ;) |
| 07:22.12 | romainguy_ | use an array |
| 07:22.17 | romainguy_ | or a custom class with 2 public fields |
| 07:22.18 | umdk1d3 | Object[] true |
| 07:22.36 | umdk1d3 | i was writing it as a new class with 2 fields, but object[] might be faster |
| 07:22.48 | romainguy_ | not necessarily |
| 07:22.54 | romainguy_ | it's less readable :( |
| 07:23.02 | romainguy_ | I don't think it's worth the speed different |
| 07:23.09 | romainguy_ | but in the end it's really up to you |
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| 07:29.04 | anno^da | romainguy_: How much does using GPS drain the battery in the G1. Or differently how much differs the battery life of GPS off vs. GPS on in the G1. In the end is it possible to use apps that need GPS all the time. |
| 07:29.31 | romainguy_ | swetland could give you precise numbers |
| 07:29.42 | romainguy_ | but having the GPS on all the time drains the battery pretty quickly |
| 07:29.50 | jasta | anno^da: i doubt the G1 is terribly different than other devices with GPS. GPS drains a lot. |
| 07:30.03 | romainguy_ | and I mean *quickly* :) |
| 07:30.06 | anno^da | Well yeah I thought so. :-) |
| 07:30.07 | jasta | the 3G radio is also a massive drain on battery life |
| 07:30.20 | romainguy_ | 3G is also really not that bad |
| 07:30.26 | romainguy_ | at least the G1 does very well |
| 07:31.03 | jasta | i'm not sure i buy that...i've had quite a few devices with 3G radios and it's significant for sure. |
| 07:31.10 | anno^da | I'm just thinking about some apps for example Locale. They are partly based on GPS so how do they save battery life? Setting up profiles based on your location. |
| 07:31.41 | anno^da | They need your current location all the time. |
| 07:31.50 | romainguy_ | they could poll from time to time |
| 07:31.55 | jasta | anno^da: well, Locale probably uses triangulation and periodic polling. |
| 07:31.59 | anno^da | Well ok. |
| 07:32.02 | romainguy_ | location based on the cell ID is probably enough |
| 07:32.03 | jasta | google's "my location" is pretty cheap, actually. |
| 07:32.17 | jasta | it's just triangulation with data the cellular radio has anyway |
| 07:32.40 | jasta | the only piece that the radio can't tell you is the location of the towers, but since you aren't often moving between towers, it won't need to update that often either. |
| 07:32.54 | anno^da | Yeah thats true. |
| 07:33.20 | jasta | google's "my location" almost certainly works by measuring the delay in communication between the cell towers that the phone is communicating with, then triangulating. |
| 07:33.26 | umdk1d3 | okay |
| 07:33.28 | anno^da | How long does the G1 take to get a position? (cold starting GPS) |
| 07:33.28 | jasta | so simple math on top of numbers that are always available to the radio |
| 07:33.29 | umdk1d3 | so i had a genius moment |
| 07:33.41 | umdk1d3 | with mickrobk the other day |
| 07:33.52 | umdk1d3 | we freaking realized how google is doing some of their triangulation stuff |
| 07:34.01 | romainguy_ | anno^da: it varies |
| 07:34.13 | umdk1d3 | all of their streetview vehicles were wardriving! :evilgrin: |
| 07:34.21 | umdk1d3 | it TOTALLY make sense |
| 07:34.44 | umdk1d3 | they would have an internal database of all the wifi networks to get better detail in certain areas =D |
| 07:34.50 | jasta | umdk1d3: actually, they did it with devices that had both GPS and GSM radios and mapped out the cell tower locations. |
| 07:34.51 | umdk1d3 | no need to lease it from someone else |
| 07:35.15 | umdk1d3 | jasta: well gsm cellid has been around for awhile, and i think you might just license that from the cell providers |
| 07:35.21 | umdk1d3 | yahoo has had an api for years iirc |
| 07:35.25 | jasta | this is not new technology by any stretch. my friend worked with this at Intel research *years* ago. |
| 07:35.43 | jasta | in fact, he had a functioning version of it on early Windows Mobile phones in the Seattle metro area. we used it all the time. |
| 07:36.10 | jasta | umdk1d3: yeah, but you don't *have* to license it from them. |
| 07:36.31 | jasta | besides, the licensing from the carriers is absurd. or, it used to be. you'd have to pay a fee *per* lookup. |
| 07:37.00 | jasta | this is what inspired Intel research to start figuring out a way to subvert them. I mean really, this technology was functional in 2003. |
| 07:37.15 | anno^da | romainguy_: Hmm whats the average. What would you say. |
| 07:37.41 | jasta | there were two big problems though: the cell radios were black boxed so you couldn't get this data on most phones, and the cell tower database was huge and hard to map. |
| 07:37.56 | romainguy_ | anno^da: I honestly don't know, I've seen fixes obtained with a delay of a few seconds up to a few minutes |
| 07:38.03 | romainguy_ | depends on the place :) |
| 07:38.06 | jasta | the former i think is still true, but the latter is a problem google can solve with its army of interns |
| 07:38.16 | umdk1d3 | lol army of interns |
| 07:38.20 | anno^da | ok thanks. :-) |
| 07:40.25 | jasta | wonders if he was actually supposed to talk about the fact that Intel research was doing this |
| 07:40.39 | jasta | i guess i never thought to ask if that information i got was through a breach of NDA :) |
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| 08:17.44 | umdk1d3 | O.O |
| 08:17.44 | umdk1d3 | 10-04 02:16:26.016: ERROR/AndroidRuntime(8570): java.util.concurrent.RejectedExecutionException |
| 08:19.41 | umdk1d3 | hmm |
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| 08:26.53 | anno^da | http://gizmodo.com/5058030/nokia-5800-xpressmusic-hands+on-with-nokias-first-s60-touch-phone <- has also some nice hardware specs. |
| 08:27.50 | umdk1d3 | hmm |
| 08:28.14 | umdk1d3 | i wonder if there is a good way to figure out if a getView() from an adapter is really "important" |
| 08:28.25 | umdk1d3 | like if its going to be in the final landing spot of a fling |
| 08:28.47 | anno^da | I know it is Symbian but 3,5mm jack, 8GB card included etc. sounds pretty nice. |
| 08:28.47 | umdk1d3 | so that i coudl skip loading images for "in-between" views |
| 08:30.46 | romainguy_ | umdk1d3: use the OnScrollListener for this |
| 08:30.55 | umdk1d3 | aha |
| 08:30.56 | romainguy_ | I use this for this exact reason in my books app |
| 08:31.02 | romainguy_ | there's an API demo of it too |
| 08:31.06 | romainguy_ | that shows exactly this use case |
| 08:31.24 | umdk1d3 | and should i be using WeakReferences to try creating an inmemory cache instead of reading from disk each time? |
| 08:31.41 | umdk1d3 | trying to figure out Weak vs Soft |
| 08:31.58 | romainguy_ | no, soft references for a cache |
| 08:38.24 | jasta | umdk1d3: sounds like youre working on something interesting over there :) |
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| 08:48.38 | umdk1d3 | holy CRAP!@!!! this thing is **FAST** |
| 08:48.42 | umdk1d3 | thanks romainguy_ =D |
| 08:48.51 | romainguy_ | what is fast? |
| 08:49.03 | umdk1d3 | im pulling album covers as part of the itunes search thingy |
| 08:49.09 | romainguy_ | ah :)) |
| 08:49.10 | umdk1d3 | and with both disk+memory caching it sings ^.^ |
| 08:49.18 | romainguy_ | ^^ |
| 08:49.24 | umdk1d3 | its unreal how fast its working |
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| 08:54.07 | umdk1d3 | LOL its faster than the ipod touch |
| 08:54.15 | umdk1d3 | the touch looks choppy next to it :) |
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| 08:55.48 | romainguy_ | umdk1d3: awesome :))) |
| 08:57.08 | romainguy_ | what are you comparing? |
| 08:57.09 | romainguy_ | lists? |
| 08:58.04 | umdk1d3 | yea scrolling through lists that have album cover art in them |
| 08:58.09 | romainguy_ | nice |
| 08:58.09 | umdk1d3 | both fetched from same itunes on the backend |
| 08:58.13 | romainguy_ | yay for ListView :p |
| 08:58.18 | umdk1d3 | :) |
| 09:03.07 | jasta | i'm really happy with what ListView lets us get away with |
| 09:03.17 | jasta | like that SEARCH intent is so easy to provide knowing how efficient ListView is. |
| 09:03.35 | jasta | just toss up a list with everything your app supports and use a filter query. |
| 09:04.03 | jasta | very tidy for both user and dev |
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| 09:05.41 | romainguy_ | at some point we even played with a ListView of WebViews for Gmail |
| 09:05.52 | romainguy_ | that was a bit too much though :) |
| 09:06.10 | romainguy_ | (the initial layout of a WebView is too expensive for nice scrolls in a ListView) |
| 09:06.22 | jasta | of course itw asnt listviews fault :) |
| 09:06.36 | romainguy_ | not at that time |
| 09:06.43 | romainguy_ | you have no idea how much work went into ListView :p |
| 09:07.10 | romainguy_ | but when the initialization of a WebView takes several hundred milliseconds, it's hard to get a smooth scroll |
| 09:08.03 | jasta | i can imagine, actually. i've attempted something like it a long time ago |
| 09:08.17 | jasta | a fast, "windowed" list view...i failed, however :) |
| 09:08.19 | muthu | list view is great |
| 09:08.32 | romainguy_ | muthu: still needs some work though |
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| 09:08.48 | muthu | the default scroll bar coulda been better |
| 09:08.58 | romainguy_ | well that has nothing to do with ListView :) |
| 09:09.02 | jasta | i sort of like it being small and sexy, actually |
| 09:09.31 | jasta | and i like the fade to show you that there are more items at the top/bottom |
| 09:09.41 | muthu | a lot more built in layouts for listviews would be nice |
| 09:09.49 | anno^da | umdk1d3: do a screencast :-) |
| 09:09.51 | romainguy_ | the fade was fun to implement |
| 09:10.13 | tomgibara | romainguy_: Are there any plans to allow adapters to invalidate at a more granular level? |
| 09:10.15 | jasta | romainguy_: it's actually great because it's both visually rich and informative. |
| 09:10.16 | romainguy_ | and a nice headache to make it fast during a ListView fling |
| 09:10.32 | romainguy_ | jasta: my favorite feature about it is how it grows smoothly |
| 09:10.44 | jasta | hmm? |
| 09:10.50 | muthu | the invalidation is a bit buggy |
| 09:10.50 | romainguy_ | tomgibara: it's in a bug somewhere, but very low priority |
| 09:10.56 | romainguy_ | muthu: er, no |
| 09:11.03 | jasta | hehe, romain will kill you |
| 09:11.07 | muthu | haha |
| 09:11.07 | romainguy_ | jasta: go to the top of a list, then scroll slowly |
| 09:11.13 | romainguy_ | you will see the fade gradually grow |
| 09:11.18 | romainguy_ | it doesn't toggle |
| 09:11.47 | tomgibara | romainguy_: understandable, it hasn't actually caused me any performance problems |
| 09:12.01 | romainguy_ | tomgibara: we'd rather make a full screen invalidation fast first |
| 09:12.15 | romainguy_ | and then add a fine grained invalidate :) |
| 09:12.33 | romainguy_ | the problem with the fine grained invalidate is when the adapter is backed by a database |
| 09:13.08 | tomgibara | okay |
| 09:14.12 | muthu | hey, noticed that the cursor adapter does not auto update the list view |
| 09:14.16 | muthu | when the content changes |
| 09:14.27 | muthu | do we have to request layout? |
| 09:14.43 | romainguy_ | you have to call notifyDatasetChanged |
| 09:14.51 | muthu | why is it? |
| 09:14.55 | romainguy_ | and one of the constructors of CursorAdapter allows you to setup auto requeries |
| 09:15.04 | muthu | hmm, ok |
| 09:15.04 | romainguy_ | muthu: to notify ListView that something has changed |
| 09:15.12 | muthu | right, but thought that's the default |
| 09:15.40 | muthu | this view/adapter/cursor thing is nice |
| 09:15.48 | muthu | vac patter |
| 09:15.51 | muthu | pattern |
| 09:16.44 | muthu | avc rhymes more with mvc |
| 09:17.17 | umdk1d3 | hmm with expandablelists, can we use getChildAt(int) where the int is a packed position? (packed positions are long though :/) |
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| 09:17.42 | muthu | yeah, the expandlist demo shows that |
| 09:17.47 | romainguy_ | there are methods to do the conversion between packed/unpacked positions |
| 09:19.10 | muthu | $1.50 house on ebay |
| 09:19.31 | umdk1d3 | right, but packed posititions are long, and getChildAt() takes an int, and there doesnt seem to be a nice getChildAt(group, child) |
| 09:19.41 | romainguy_ | that's what I just said |
| 09:19.44 | umdk1d3 | aha getFlatListPosition |
| 09:19.45 | romainguy_ | use the conversion methods |
| 09:19.55 | umdk1d3 | sry i need food |
| 09:20.01 | muthu | that's a bummer |
| 09:20.11 | muthu | you coulda added some comfort methods |
| 09:20.22 | muthu | getchildpos() |
| 09:20.36 | umdk1d3 | muthu: it looks like i can put something together tho |
| 09:20.44 | muthu | oh yeah |
| 09:20.46 | muthu | exp list is nice |
| 09:20.55 | umdk1d3 | with getChildAt(getFlatListPosition(getPackedPositionForChild(group, child))) |
| 09:20.55 | umdk1d3 | :P |
| 09:21.02 | muthu | lol |
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| 09:21.49 | muthu | why the ui guys don't think about adding comfy methods.. no one knows |
| 09:22.04 | romainguy_ | what are you talking about? |
| 09:22.43 | muthu | a convenience method to get a child item from a group |
| 09:22.45 | romainguy_ | but there are such methods... |
| 09:23.02 | muthu | getChildAt(getFlatListPosition(getPackedPositionForChild(group, child))) |
| 09:23.39 | muthu | getChildAt (group, child) |
| 09:24.58 | muthu | shit, another day lost updating linux |
| 09:24.58 | romainguy_ | well we did not because usually you don't need to go grab the view this way |
| 09:25.15 | romainguy_ | the view is handed to you in click and selection listeners |
| 09:25.20 | romainguy_ | which is most of the time what you care about |
| 09:25.45 | muthu | yeah, but you need the parent too |
| 09:26.17 | muthu | how's the _id tied up to the view? |
| 09:26.32 | romainguy_ | what is _id? |
| 09:26.41 | muthu | database id |
| 09:27.02 | romainguy_ | it depends on your adapter... |
| 09:27.06 | muthu | does the cursors bind them to the rows? |
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| 09:27.20 | muthu | usually i requery from cursor |
| 09:27.35 | muthu | but that's not right |
| 09:28.09 | romainguy_ | I don't understand what you're getting at :) |
| 09:28.20 | muthu | yeah, me too :) |
| 09:28.26 | muthu | just remembered reading some docs |
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| 09:30.01 | muthu | https://www.getdropbox.com/home |
| 09:30.05 | muthu | nice |
| 09:30.27 | muthu | pretty cool |
| 09:31.01 | muthu | umdk1d3: how's gentoo? |
| 09:31.16 | umdk1d3 | lol its awesome |
| 09:31.23 | Miek | high-fives umdk1d3 |
| 09:31.28 | umdk1d3 | :) |
| 09:31.28 | muthu | hehe.. ok gonna try that |
| 09:31.39 | umdk1d3 | muthu: beware, youll spend the next week learning it ;) |
| 09:31.41 | umdk1d3 | but its worth it |
| 09:31.52 | umdk1d3 | and btw dont use genkernel :P |
| 09:31.54 | muthu | if it doesn't crash, fine with me |
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| 09:32.04 | Miek | he speaks the truth, genkernel sucks :( |
| 09:32.08 | muthu | where's the distro? |
| 09:32.15 | umdk1d3 | muthu: do you have multple boxes, so you can atleast web+irc? |
| 09:32.25 | muthu | yeah |
| 09:32.29 | umdk1d3 | google for gentoo minimal ;) |
| 09:32.37 | umdk1d3 | i think there is a 2008.0 torrent out there |
| 09:32.37 | muthu | ok.. minimal is what i want |
| 09:32.43 | umdk1d3 | like 60mb iso :P |
| 09:32.48 | muthu | wow |
| 09:32.48 | Miek | boot the minimal cd, start ssh on it and install from another machine :) |
| 09:32.57 | muthu | cool |
| 09:33.07 | umdk1d3 | and get ready to spend a lot of time walkign through the docs ;) |
| 09:33.08 | muthu | fedora and ubuntu screwed me over the last fortnight |
| 09:33.21 | umdk1d3 | muthu: gentoo doesnt have ANY gui ;) |
| 09:33.28 | muthu | WHAT? |
| 09:33.31 | Miek | ubuntu screwed me over a few years ago, just before i switched to gentoo |
| 09:33.32 | umdk1d3 | LOL!!! |
| 09:33.35 | umdk1d3 | im serious tho |
| 09:33.52 | umdk1d3 | Miek: kinda same here, got fed up with ubuntu+debian and breaking apt all the time |
| 09:33.55 | muthu | hmm.. so you don't run any xserver? |
| 09:34.04 | Miek | just not during the install |
| 09:34.04 | umdk1d3 | muthu: oh sure you can install xorg |
| 09:34.09 | muthu | ubuntu sucks bigtime |
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| 09:34.26 | umdk1d3 | muthu: you essentially get a root shell on that cd and do everything yourself to bring the box up |
| 09:34.31 | umdk1d3 | there is no "setup wizard" |
| 09:34.40 | muthu | great |
| 09:34.41 | umdk1d3 | thats what i meant by no gui |
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| 09:34.48 | romainguy_ | no GUI /o\ |
| 09:34.54 | Miek | haha |
| 09:34.57 | umdk1d3 | also, you really learn alot about how linux works under the hood in the process |
| 09:35.19 | muthu | guess i'll do it after 22 ;) |
| 09:35.34 | Miek | i'll give you a cookie if you get to the reboot step without forgetting anything |
| 09:35.45 | Miek | i always forget something :( |
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| 09:35.49 | muthu | haha |
| 09:36.33 | muthu | apt is the worst |
| 09:36.41 | muthu | guaranteed to break |
| 09:36.41 | umdk1d3 | muthu: do you have a dual/quad core? |
| 09:36.49 | muthu | nope |
| 09:36.54 | umdk1d3 | in gentoo the package manager compiles everything by hand |
| 09:37.05 | umdk1d3 | and its pretty hard to get into a broken state |
| 09:37.15 | muthu | what's the package manager? |
| 09:37.18 | umdk1d3 | just make sure to liberally apply use flags before emerging stuff |
| 09:37.23 | Miek | my first install was on a 333MHz amd k6 |
| 09:37.30 | Miek | sucked. |
| 09:37.34 | muthu | is it rpm? |
| 09:37.37 | umdk1d3 | how many days did xfree take? :P |
| 09:37.48 | Miek | it was a server, luckily :p |
| 09:37.51 | umdk1d3 | muthu: there are no .deb or .rpms |
| 09:38.00 | Miek | there's tarballs |
| 09:38.45 | muthu | sounds good |
| 09:39.00 | romainguy_ | has bad memories of gentoo :)) |
| 09:39.12 | muthu | oh oh |
| 09:39.14 | umdk1d3 | also muthu there are overlays that make it super easy to jump into subversion copies of projects |
| 09:39.15 | romainguy_ | well |
| 09:39.17 | romainguy_ | it was great |
| 09:39.24 | romainguy_ | just that the install was loooooong |
| 09:39.36 | Miek | installing it on my core2 was lovely |
| 09:39.43 | Miek | so fast! |
| 09:39.53 | romainguy_ | Miek: last time I installed it was on a 200 Mhz or something like that ;-)) |
| 09:40.04 | umdk1d3 | i had the privlidge of installing gentoo on a nice 8-core xeon box the other day ^.^ |
| 09:40.06 | Miek | ouch |
| 09:40.22 | romainguy_ | umdk1d3: I should try on this machine then :)) |
| 09:40.39 | umdk1d3 | watcha got? |
| 09:41.02 | romainguy_ | 8-cores Xeon MacPro |
| 09:41.05 | romainguy_ | with 8 GB of RAM |
| 09:41.09 | umdk1d3 | LOL mac :P |
| 09:41.22 | muthu | woah |
| 09:41.38 | romainguy_ | umdk1d3: what can I say, I like UIs :) |
| 09:41.50 | muthu | actually i remember setting up gentoo some years back |
| 09:42.01 | muthu | it ran like days |
| 09:42.07 | muthu | then i pulled the plug |
| 09:42.07 | umdk1d3 | muthu: yep thats gentoo ;) |
| 09:42.19 | muthu | ha! |
| 09:42.27 | Miek | i have a printed and bound copy of the handbook :> |
| 09:43.32 | romainguy_ | umdk1d3: that's a sweet machine, I have Photoshop and Lightroom always open ^^ |
| 09:49.25 | umdk1d3 | ouch this parsing is slow :/ all 800 albums |
| 09:49.42 | romainguy_ | what are you parsing? |
| 09:49.55 | umdk1d3 | all the albums in the itunes library |
| 09:49.59 | umdk1d3 | in 50-album chunks |
| 09:50.08 | romainguy_ | you're parsing the library's XML? |
| 09:50.13 | umdk1d3 | no way lol |
| 09:50.16 | romainguy_ | :)) |
| 09:50.18 | umdk1d3 | their custom binary format |
| 09:50.23 | umdk1d3 | that comes over http |
| 09:50.31 | romainguy_ | oh good :) |
| 09:50.37 | umdk1d3 | ive got a nice abstract parser, but its horridly slow when working with large things |
| 09:50.47 | romainguy_ | did you profile it? |
| 09:50.53 | umdk1d3 | creating a hashtable for the entire tree :/ |
| 09:51.06 | umdk1d3 | no i havent yet |
| 09:51.11 | romainguy_ | could you use a SparseArray instead? |
| 09:52.31 | umdk1d3 | well not really in this case--its more that im decoding an entire tree of the format: http://umdk1d3.mine.nu/dump/tree |
| 09:52.43 | umdk1d3 | and im creating a hashmap for each branch |
| 09:52.53 | umdk1d3 | its inefficient i know, but makes for fast coding |
| 09:53.02 | umdk1d3 | because the tree comes across in all sorts of odd formats |
| 09:53.14 | umdk1d3 | so its good general code, but in this case im creating tons of unneeded objects |
| 09:53.26 | romainguy_ | do you get a lot of GCs during parsing? |
| 09:53.48 | umdk1d3 | tons :/ about 3 during every 50-albums |
| 09:54.00 | romainguy_ | how many objects are collected during each cycle? |
| 09:54.01 | umdk1d3 | each one freeing about 10k objects |
| 09:54.06 | romainguy_ | ouch |
| 09:54.07 | romainguy_ | here you go |
| 09:54.20 | romainguy_ | that probably hurts you a lot |
| 09:54.21 | umdk1d3 | im also treating all integers as BigInts :P |
| 09:54.28 | romainguy_ | lol |
| 09:54.34 | romainguy_ | yeah that doesn't help :p |
| 09:54.35 | umdk1d3 | because some of them are, well, big |
| 09:54.47 | umdk1d3 | eh ill just have to write a faster parser |
| 09:54.47 | romainguy_ | can't you just use a couple of longs instead? |
| 09:55.02 | jasta | bigger than a long? what are the values? |
| 09:55.07 | romainguy_ | well to make it faster you can try removing as many allocation as you can |
| 09:55.17 | romainguy_ | given that a GC pause can easily be in the 200-300ms range... |
| 09:55.22 | umdk1d3 | yea :/ |
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| 09:55.48 | umdk1d3 | jasta: apples guids are 16-bytes |
| 09:56.15 | umdk1d3 | or wait, 8-bytes, but they need to be unsigned |
| 09:57.03 | jasta | so why not just use a byte array? BigInteger is for a very different purpose |
| 09:57.30 | umdk1d3 | well i do need to decode it at some point, and bigint takes care of all that math |
| 09:57.47 | jasta | umdk1d3: why? |
| 09:58.24 | umdk1d3 | or maybe i dont now--i think i can set the playlist using just strings /me checks |
| 09:58.37 | umdk1d3 | ouch nope, need that guid to play an album |
| 09:58.49 | jasta | umdk1d3: btw, java's longs are guaranteed to be 64 bit signed integers, so you almost certainly can fit your data in there. |
| 09:58.58 | jasta | for the love of god don't use Strings to represent those guids |
| 09:59.02 | jasta | use either a long or a byte array |
| 09:59.10 | jasta | and certainly don't use BigInteger unless you are really doing _MATH_ on it. |
| 09:59.37 | umdk1d3 | jasta: the key is /signed/ |
| 09:59.42 | jasta | uhm, so what? |
| 10:00.17 | umdk1d3 | i need them as unsigned strings at some point, and i was too lazy to look at the bit twiddling needed to get what i needed out of longs |
| 10:01.09 | jasta | signedness is just a representation of a decimal number. the data can be represented in other ways if you know how it is encoded (you do). |
| 10:01.19 | jasta | it's got nothing to do with some immutable property of the data |
| 10:01.24 | umdk1d3 | besides, there isnt any native type bigger than long that could store the value while twiddling it |
| 10:02.04 | umdk1d3 | goes to find food |
| 10:02.09 | jasta | why are you "twiddling" with a unique id? what does twiddling mean? :) |
| 10:02.39 | jasta | a unique id is for storage and lookup, you need only be able to represent and supply the same data you were given originally. for this, byte[] is probably most appropriate. |
| 10:03.30 | umdk1d3 | okay jasta how do i get my nice unsigned string representation out of that byte[]? they already wrote the code in bigint, so im using that |
| 10:03.35 | jasta | and id on't mean store the number as an encoded string, that is absurdly wasteful (with each character holding only 10 possible values when in the same storage space you could hold 256) |
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| 10:04.13 | umdk1d3 | jasta: the point is that itunes wants me to send back the guid as an unsigned string, even when it sent it to me in raw bytes |
| 10:04.21 | umdk1d3 | meh |
| 10:04.49 | umdk1d3 | the bottleneck isnt biginteger, its that im creating all these recursive hashtables |
| 10:05.04 | romainguy_ | yeah, stop allocating :)) |
| 10:05.06 | jasta | i know that, but you still shouldnt be this silly :) |
| 10:06.05 | umdk1d3 | also it appears that getFlatListPosition() will throw a nice exception if the group isnt expanded |
| 10:06.32 | romainguy_ | umdk1d3: do we have a isGroupExpanded() at least? |
| 10:07.03 | umdk1d3 | yea its there ;) |
| 10:07.11 | umdk1d3 | im just gonna catch the exception and ignore tho |
| 10:07.13 | romainguy_ | I think the problem comes from how it's implemented |
| 10:07.24 | umdk1d3 | cuz the album art will only be requested when something is expanded anyway |
| 10:07.44 | romainguy_ | I mean, the reason why we throw an exception |
| 10:07.47 | umdk1d3 | and it was happening where i expanded/collapsed quickly and the UserTask tried updating something that disappeared |
| 10:07.57 | umdk1d3 | oh right |
| 10:08.09 | romainguy_ | I don't remember exactly how ExpandableListView works but it probably doesn't have the data it needs |
| 10:08.31 | umdk1d3 | starving, goes shopping at 4am bbl |
| 10:08.53 | muthu | umdk1d3: get me a beer! |
| 10:09.32 | jasta | aww, we can't get beer that late here |
| 10:11.32 | muthu | really? |
| 10:11.45 | muthu | can't you buy it krogers? |
| 10:11.48 | jasta | yeah, beer can't be served after 2, and liquor after 9 or 10pm |
| 10:12.02 | muthu | india closes at 11 |
| 10:12.03 | jasta | err, can't be *bought* |
| 10:12.07 | muthu | nothing after 11 |
| 10:12.13 | jasta | beer and liquor can be served up until 2am both |
| 10:12.30 | tric | hahahaa |
| 10:12.32 | muthu | right, in SF there are places open till 4 |
| 10:12.58 | tric | here places are open 24/7 to buy beer |
| 10:13.12 | muthu | tric: that's the place to be |
| 10:14.33 | tric | and some places serve beer 24/7 as well |
| 10:15.18 | muthu | au? |
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| 10:43.12 | jasta | god, why does my project stop randomly building all the time |
| 10:43.40 | muthu | stop? |
| 10:43.49 | jasta | just lame ADT bugs i guess |
| 10:43.59 | jasta | this time it now is claiming therse a problem with one of my services, even though it reports no build errors |
| 10:44.02 | jasta | the manifest just says its bogus |
| 10:44.05 | jasta | and i didnt even change it |
| 10:44.09 | muthu | hmm |
| 10:45.18 | jasta | PlaylistService does not extend android.app.Service is the error |
| 10:45.22 | jasta | reported in the manifest |
| 10:46.07 | jasta | rm -rf bin apparently does something more than Project -> Clean, because now it works |
| 10:46.49 | muthu | yeah, periodic rm -rf bin will keep android happy |
| 10:47.08 | jasta | ugh what the hell is this |
| 10:47.11 | jasta | now the apk wont start |
| 10:47.18 | jasta | unable to instantiate one of my activities now |
| 10:47.51 | muthu | a compile error? |
| 10:47.52 | pjv | hmm, yeah, some bugs I guess |
| 10:47.55 | jasta | and now a Project -> Clean, and it works. |
| 10:48.01 | muthu | woah |
| 10:48.14 | jasta | so that was Clean, rm -rf, Clean to get it building :\ |
| 10:48.14 | pjv | how do you guys cope with using CVS/svn/bzr for android projects? |
| 10:48.20 | jasta | after not changing anything |
| 10:48.26 | jasta | pjv: just like any other project? |
| 10:48.44 | pjv | mostly the R.java is a pain in the *** because it is regenerated |
| 10:48.53 | muthu | exclude R |
| 10:49.11 | jasta | yeah, you dont commit anything autogenerated |
| 10:49.18 | jasta | thats the golden version control rule. |
| 10:49.29 | pjv | yeah |
| 10:50.00 | pjv | will need to work on my bzr filters then |
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| 13:38.07 | plusminus_ | hey guys |
| 13:38.29 | plusminus_ | anyone basically interested in becoming a moderator for anddev.org ? |
| 13:38.57 | anno^da | Well I would be intersted. |
| 13:39.02 | anno^da | interested |
| 13:39.04 | anno^da | :-) |
| 13:39.14 | plusminus_ | do you already have an account? |
| 13:39.24 | anno^da | For which parts of the forum ? Yeah we talked about my app last time. |
| 13:39.44 | anno^da | (in german :-) ) |
| 13:39.46 | plusminus_ | android_coding ? |
| 13:39.49 | anno^da | yeah |
| 13:39.53 | plusminus_ | great :) |
| 13:41.22 | anno^da | I'm just mixing my identities. :D |
| 13:41.23 | plusminus_ | give me a minute... |
| 13:41.32 | anno^da | Yeah sure. |
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| 16:27.44 | yogeshsdfd | hows power management of android phone ? |
| 16:31.04 | yogeshsdfd | does anyone knows how power management is there on android ? |
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| 16:38.46 | dob1 | hi, i am trying the helloword example from the google android site, i follow all the instruction but, on eclipse, when i try to run the helloworld, i have this error [2008-10-04 18:37:52 - HelloAndroid] Could not find HelloAndroid.apk! |
| 16:39.33 | dob1 | i am a beginner, and i don't know how to resolve |
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| 17:22.28 | dob1 | there is no one here? |
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| 17:56.06 | muthu | ஠பà¯à®à¯ |
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| 19:24.02 | meoblast001 | romainguy_: my linux-hating freind was talking smack about linux cuz the linux version of chrome wasnt released the same day the windows version was |
| 19:24.25 | meoblast001 | he said "you see... the wonderful thing about windows is you get what you want NOW"... those are almost his exact words |
| 19:24.47 | benley | tell him he should talk shit about google in that case |
| 19:25.05 | meoblast001 | benley: he would ask why |
| 19:25.10 | umdk1d3 | lol |
| 19:25.22 | meoblast001 | should i bring up googlebuntu or whatever it's called? |
| 19:25.24 | umdk1d3 | just point out how many new kernel versions you got between xp->vista ;) |
| 19:25.28 | benley | goobuntu? |
| 19:25.36 | umdk1d3 | gOS? |
| 19:25.38 | meoblast001 | ah yes thats it |
| 19:25.47 | meoblast001 | gOS? |
| 19:25.52 | benley | goobuntu sucks. |
| 19:25.58 | meoblast001 | gOS has nothing to do with Google |
| 19:26.11 | meoblast001 | gOS is Good Operating System which is made to look like a mac and run like Ubuntu |
| 19:26.20 | umdk1d3 | oh true, i thought they had a lot of google apps integrated |
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| 19:26.25 | meoblast001 | they do |
| 19:26.42 | meoblast001 | thats why they have (had) a thing at the bottom indicateing they are not affiliated with Google |
| 19:26.43 | kim0 | Should I be expecting a python sdk soon ? :D |
| 19:26.54 | meoblast001 | and explain the XP->Vista thing? |
| 19:27.16 | meoblast001 | oh... how i get krnel updates and he doesnt? |
| 19:27.25 | meoblast001 | his kernel is infected with Spore lol |
| 19:42.16 | dob1 | i repeat my question |
| 19:42.33 | dob1 | hi, i am trying the helloword example from the google android site, i follow all the instruction but, on eclipse, when i try to run the helloworld, i have this error [2008-10-04 18:37:52 - HelloAndroid] Could not find HelloAndroid.apk! |
| 19:43.05 | dob1 | i read on google that this can be cause about the debug.store file |
| 19:43.15 | dob1 | but i don't know how to resolve |
| 19:43.43 | dob1 | i just started with android |
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| 19:53.13 | kim0 | if anyone has news about a python SDK, plz let me know |
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| 19:53.24 | davidw | kim0, you could use Hecl |
| 19:53.52 | kim0 | that's a separate language ?! |
| 19:54.43 | romainguy_ | kim0: there's no python SDK |
| 19:55.00 | davidw | kim0, yeah |
| 19:55.06 | kim0 | but there will be ? |
| 19:55.12 | romainguy_ | I don't know |
| 19:55.13 | kim0 | I'm sure I read that somewhere |
| 19:55.16 | romainguy_ | it's not on our roadmap for now |
| 19:55.31 | kim0 | romainguy_: r u working on the android team |
| 19:55.35 | romainguy_ | I am |
| 19:55.48 | kim0 | oh .. that means it's not really gonna happen :( |
| 19:55.54 | romainguy_ | I didn't say that |
| 19:56.02 | romainguy_ | I said it's not on our planning for now |
| 19:56.09 | romainguy_ | there are tons of more important things to do first |
| 19:56.12 | romainguy_ | (unfortunately) |
| 19:56.18 | kim0 | pff :D |
| 19:56.28 | kim0 | is that roadmap public ? |
| 19:56.39 | romainguy_ | one of the biggest issues with supporting Python for instance is that all the applications API are in Java |
| 19:56.52 | romainguy_ | it's certainly possible to interop but it's not trivial |
| 19:56.56 | romainguy_ | and probably not efficient :) |
| 19:56.59 | kim0 | jython ? |
| 19:57.06 | unix_infidel | you'd likely just have to use a bridge. |
| 19:57.15 | romainguy_ | hence the not efficient part |
| 19:57.40 | kim0 | I'm just not a java dev .. and wanted to create some smallish apps |
| 19:57.45 | kim0 | python suits me fine |
| 19:57.47 | romainguy_ | just learn Java |
| 19:57.52 | romainguy_ | programming languages are just tools |
| 19:57.57 | unix_infidel | agreed, especially when every mhz counts. |
| 19:57.58 | romainguy_ | there's no reason no to learn them :) |
| 19:57.59 | wastrel | i'm learning java |
| 19:58.01 | kim0 | Java is a bit huge :D |
| 19:58.04 | davidw | no they aren't... they're toolsheds |
| 19:58.13 | romainguy_ | kim0: the language is very simple |
| 19:58.27 | davidw | romainguy_, you're looking at it from the point of view of someone who spends all his days hacking:-) |
| 19:58.36 | davidw | for many people, they just want to learn one and use it to do a few things |
| 19:58.51 | unix_infidel | davidw: which is why python is so attractive to that user group. |
| 19:58.53 | davidw | frankly, even most of us who spend our days hacking don't use more than 2 or 3 at a time |
| 19:59.00 | romainguy_ | davidw: that's why you created yet another language? :)) |
| 19:59.04 | romainguy_ | davidw: I agree |
| 19:59.15 | kim0 | why can't python be compiled to dalvick bytecode |
| 19:59.20 | davidw | romainguy_, most existing languages wouldn't work where Hecl does |
| 19:59.21 | kim0 | and run natively |
| 19:59.29 | davidw | kim0, now you have a weekend project;-) |
| 19:59.30 | romainguy_ | but if I need/want to write apps for a new environment, I just learn whatever tool I have to learn |
| 19:59.37 | kim0 | hehe maybe |
| 19:59.41 | romainguy_ | kim0: that doesn't solve the problem of accessing the APIs |
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| 20:01.10 | kim0 | any efforts to get android running on x86 ? |
| 20:01.51 | davidw | not without source code? |
| 20:02.25 | kim0 | wonder why google isn't releasing the rest |
| 20:02.39 | romainguy_ | the source code will be released when the phones are available |
| 20:03.21 | kim0 | btw ... I don't find the hardware of the G1 particularly sexy .. but I wanna get an android phone soon .. any other expected models soon ? |
| 20:03.24 | davidw | yay! |
| 20:03.36 | romainguy_ | kim0: G1 is the only phone that has been announced at the moment |
| 20:03.44 | kim0 | that much I know :) |
| 20:04.31 | kim0 | I'd just hate it to buy one .. and a month later an iphonish model comes out |
| 20:04.44 | davidw | the last guy who he told anything interesting to got disappeared by men jumping out of the G-copter |
| 20:04.56 | kim0 | lol |
| 20:05.06 | kim0 | that's funny |
| 20:05.13 | unix_infidel | i'm beginning to think that in order to maximize ROI that they wont release a new phone either late Q2 2009 or VERY soon after the G1 launch |
| 20:05.19 | romainguy_ | kim0: honestly, G1 might not be the best looking phone out there, but it's definitely really nice to use every day |
| 20:05.21 | kim0 | abducted by Galiens |
| 20:05.36 | romainguy_ | I don't care anymore about its looks, it's just really cool to use ;) |
| 20:05.44 | davidw | would love to know what the internal politics are like regarding gphones vs iphones |
| 20:05.58 | romainguy_ | that's easy, gphones don't exist :) |
| 20:06.37 | kim0 | romainguy_: once G1 is out, and all the code is out, can I expect to run androidy on x86 easily ? |
| 20:06.37 | unix_infidel | kim0: the only current model out on the market that comes close to the Iphone is the HTC Touch HD. |
| 20:06.38 | davidw | let gphones == phones that run android |
| 20:07.05 | romainguy_ | kim0: not easily :) |
| 20:07.09 | kim0 | unix_infidel: yeah .. why can't I flash that |
| 20:07.41 | kim0 | unix_infidel: it's probably very similar hardware to the G1 not ? |
| 20:10.14 | unix_infidel | well the HD, has the same CPU, but it's a quadband device, and it has a larger capacitive screen, 2 cameras, etc. |
| 20:10.48 | unix_infidel | If I was a gambling man... |
| 20:11.14 | kim0 | if I were* ;) |
| 20:12.57 | unix_infidel | I think the logic being lets get a community of developers behind a pragmatic device, and then we can push out with a more broad base consumer oriented device. |
| 20:14.36 | kim0 | that's not how marketting really works |
| 20:15.49 | unix_infidel | well you could do it the iPhone 3G way. But Google / %DeviceManuf% aren't Apple. |
| 20:17.02 | davidw | kim0, anyway, if you want to play around with a simply language, Hecl runs on Android, although it is still fairly alphaish there |
| 20:17.12 | davidw | s/simply/simple |
| 20:18.52 | davidw | i.e. you'd need to be patient, ask questions on the mailing list, and work with me to fix any bugs that pop up:-) |
| 20:19.35 | davidw | romainguy_, I think one option that you guys ought to consider is to find a way to make the javascript interpreter on the phone do double duty |
| 20:19.48 | davidw | people would probably be happy enough with that |
| 20:21.12 | tomgibara | davidw: I definitely agree with that |
| 20:21.30 | unix_infidel | interesting. |
| 20:21.36 | tomgibara | having a simple way to call through to the javascript engine would be an excellent way to add scripting to applications |
| 20:22.02 | tomgibara | and the engine in Webkit is already a separate module AFAIK |
| 20:22.33 | benley | I'm not sure it's a safe assumption that the android javascript interpreter is the same as the one in safari |
| 20:23.33 | tomgibara | benley: I'm not assuming that, what I'm saying is that at at an architectural level, the interpreter is a separate 'pluggable' entity within webkit |
| 20:24.05 | tomgibara | as such one could expect it to be separately invokable |
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| 20:35.19 | romainguy_ | javascript can already call to Java |
| 20:35.26 | romainguy_ | there's a video about it on youtube |
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| 20:39.22 | tomgibara | romainguy_: What I would like is Java calling javascript without the cost of a WebView tagging along |
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| 22:26.43 | fhobia | so in eclipse, you can't press F3 on android classes like TextView to see the source code? you just get class file for android classes ? |
| 22:28.49 | umdk1d3 | fhobia: right, because the android framework source hasnt been released yet |
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| 22:29.48 | fhobia | ah, i see, umdk1d3 |
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| 23:04.04 | jasta | freaking power went out :) |
| 23:05.00 | umdk1d3 | :( |
| 23:05.01 | pjv | in your city? |
| 23:05.02 | umdk1d3 | no ups? |
| 23:05.14 | umdk1d3 | pats apc backup |
| 23:05.50 | umdk1d3 | hmm so i have this footerView on a listview, and im trying to figure out a good way to make it not selectable |
| 23:05.58 | umdk1d3 | ohwait lol |
| 23:06.12 | umdk1d3 | there is public void addFooterView(View v, Object data, boolean isSelectable) |
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