| 00:10.11 | *** join/#android yakischloba (n=jake@c-24-17-53-6.hsd1.wa.comcast.net) |
| 00:19.31 | *** join/#android rufus_ (n=rufus@c-98-228-181-211.hsd1.il.comcast.net) |
| 00:21.32 | *** join/#android meoblast001 (n=meoblast@dynamic-acs-24-239-93-241.zoominternet.net) |
| 00:22.25 | *** join/#android jota- (n=jota@190.6.0.180) |
| 00:29.22 | *** join/#android unix_infidel (n=blue@unaffiliated/unixinfidel/x-8383745) |
| 00:49.19 | *** join/#android PoohbaLT (n=Poohba@c-98-235-52-97.hsd1.nj.comcast.net) |
| 00:51.53 | *** join/#android Kruton_Nebulon (n=kruton@24-148-7-189.snb-bsr1.chi-snb.il.cable.rcn.com) |
| 01:06.43 | *** join/#android unix_infidel (n=blue@unaffiliated/unixinfidel/x-8383745) |
| 01:09.04 | umdk1d3 | yay /me snags wifi in seatac |
| 01:10.05 | wastrel | what's seatac? |
| 01:10.14 | jasta | umdk1d3: you're in seattle? |
| 01:10.33 | umdk1d3 | jasta: yea for like an hour or so |
| 01:10.49 | jasta | oh, crazy. were you here or just connecting? |
| 01:10.55 | umdk1d3 | connecting |
| 01:11.14 | unix_infidel | umdk1d3: on your way back from mountain view? |
| 01:11.17 | jasta | i live in Seattle, if you didnt know :) |
| 01:11.51 | jasta | what flight connects at Seatac i wonder? |
| 01:12.50 | *** join/#android romainguy__ (n=gfx@216.239.45.19) |
| 01:14.52 | umdk1d3 | so yea the at+t guy gave me all sorts of grief when i added unlim data to my nokia 6xxx series crapphone |
| 01:15.36 | bricode | jasta: SJC->SEA |
| 01:16.39 | *** join/#android romainguy___ (n=gfx@216.239.45.19) |
| 01:19.35 | ttuttle | hey, does anyone have a closed-captioned feed of the debate? |
| 01:19.41 | ttuttle | er, wrong channel |
| 01:21.14 | wastrel | are you deaf? |
| 01:21.21 | *** join/#android romainguy____ (n=gfx@69.36.227.131) |
| 01:21.28 | ttuttle | No. |
| 01:21.32 | ttuttle | I'm in a quiet computer lab. |
| 01:21.35 | wastrel | ah |
| 01:21.40 | ttuttle | Yeah. |
| 01:21.53 | ttuttle | Most of the students want to watch it, but the other TAs complained. |
| 01:22.14 | wastrel | don't you people have tv lounges? |
| 01:22.33 | ttuttle | Yes, but most of the students want to watch the debate as they code on the lab machines. |
| 01:22.49 | wastrel | codon |
| 01:27.36 | swetland | I have nonfunctional audio on this box |
| 01:27.41 | swetland | so a cc feed would be nifty |
| 01:27.47 | *** part/#android Kruton_Nebulon (n=kruton@24-148-7-189.snb-bsr1.chi-snb.il.cable.rcn.com) |
| 01:29.06 | wastrel | those would have to be some pro typists to be transcribing on the fly |
| 01:30.21 | wastrel | maybe get like 10 people typing and choose the consensus output as they type |
| 01:37.06 | *** join/#android Adamant (n=Adamant@c-98-244-152-196.hsd1.ga.comcast.net) |
| 01:37.47 | *** join/#android matt_c (n=mcroydon@137.147.45.66.cm.sunflower.com) |
| 01:40.14 | *** join/#android cbeust (n=cbeust@72.14.224.1) |
| 01:49.01 | *** join/#android BBHoss (n=bbhoss@c-68-62-170-33.hsd1.al.comcast.net) |
| 01:50.24 | *** part/#android Dougie187 (n=doug@68.35.245.156) |
| 01:50.36 | *** join/#android PoohbaLT (n=Poohba@c-98-235-52-97.hsd1.nj.comcast.net) |
| 02:00.07 | *** join/#android jadams (n=jadams@71-12-188-209.dhcp.leds.al.charter.com) |
| 02:04.23 | *** join/#android JesseL627 (n=Lemon@ip98-181-45-13.br.br.cox.net) |
| 02:07.29 | *** join/#android schmylan (n=schmylan@ppp-70-251-70-86.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net) |
| 02:10.44 | *** join/#android rufus5 (n=rufus@98.228.181.211) |
| 02:12.31 | minerale | god, answer the frickin question, Palin |
| 02:12.40 | minerale | stop shouting out to middle schools |
| 02:13.14 | *** join/#android cbeust (n=cbeust@72.14.224.1) |
| 02:14.56 | *** join/#android kslater (n=kslater@206.193.247.78.nauticom.net) |
| 02:18.32 | *** join/#android muthu (n=sara@218.248.24.81) |
| 02:21.28 | muthu | oyyo |
| 02:21.54 | muthu | idly yummm |
| 02:29.21 | benley | finds the vp debates difficult to listen to |
| 02:29.43 | wastrel | all debates |
| 02:29.55 | benley | this one is particularly obnoxious |
| 02:30.04 | wastrel | lie, lie, pander, pander, america, lie, pander, america |
| 02:30.07 | benley | (I tivod it and am an hour delayed) |
| 02:30.16 | muthu | how's palin doing? |
| 02:30.35 | benley | she sounds like a character from Fargo |
| 02:30.52 | muthu | hmm |
| 02:36.58 | *** join/#android rufus_ (n=rufus@98.228.181.211) |
| 02:40.01 | *** join/#android rufus__ (n=rufus@c-98-228-181-211.hsd1.il.comcast.net) |
| 02:43.47 | *** join/#android erus` (n=Tom@92.12.107.152) |
| 02:48.58 | *** join/#android Razec (n=razec@189.56.183.198) |
| 02:52.58 | Adamant | wastrel: they're all pretty much that way. |
| 02:53.46 | benley | omgwtf. palin says "Nukular" |
| 02:53.56 | wastrel | so does bush |
| 02:54.01 | wastrel | i think all republicans do |
| 02:54.15 | Adamant | McCain doesn't |
| 02:54.23 | wastrel | maverick |
| 02:54.34 | Adamant | Change and Hope and Especially Change |
| 02:54.44 | Adamant | did I mention change? |
| 02:55.37 | Adamant | anyway. it is too much to ask for a US presidential candidate in favor of a balanced budget? |
| 02:55.39 | ttuttle | will Change Everything (TM). TTUTTLE FOR PRESIDENT! |
| 02:56.04 | ttuttle | (Also I will outlaw Windows Mobile.) |
| 02:56.07 | wastrel | clinton balanced the budget |
| 02:56.11 | Adamant | or that will start paying down the insane debt we've been racking up? |
| 02:56.55 | Adamant | wastrel: both Obama's and McCain's proposed budgets will increase the debt |
| 02:57.16 | Adamant | Obama's by 3.5 trillion, McCain's by ~1 trillion |
| 02:57.32 | wastrel | i saw different numbers |
| 02:57.59 | Adamant | do these numbers say that either will balance the budget? |
| 02:59.30 | Adamant | it's like choosing between getting a sucking chest wound and having 4 of your fingers hanging on by the skin, financially. |
| 02:59.40 | Adamant | can't we choose neither> |
| 02:59.41 | Adamant | ? |
| 03:01.11 | f00f- | 21:59 @f00f palin wasn't sure how to pronounce nuclear |
| 03:01.11 | f00f- | 22:00 @f00f i thought i heard her say nuclear once, but mostly nucular |
| 03:14.04 | *** join/#android morrildl_ (n=chatzill@72.14.224.1) |
| 03:14.04 | *** mode/#android [+o morrildl_] by ChanServ |
| 03:16.43 | *** join/#android zmedico (n=zmedico@gentoo/developer/zmedico) |
| 03:17.09 | *** join/#android matt_c (n=mcroydon@137.147.45.66.cm.sunflower.com) |
| 03:35.18 | muthu | is there a toggle preference? |
| 03:35.27 | f00f- | yeah |
| 03:35.31 | f00f- | <PROTECTED> |
| 03:35.35 | muthu | no toggle |
| 03:35.40 | f00f- | checkbox? |
| 03:35.45 | muthu | toggle |
| 03:36.01 | muthu | on/off |
| 03:36.10 | f00f- | conceptually that is a checkbox |
| 03:36.20 | muthu | yeah, but toggle looks good |
| 03:36.33 | f00f- | well |
| 03:36.35 | f00f- | yes |
| 03:36.38 | f00f- | there is an on/off |
| 03:36.40 | f00f- | with a green light |
| 03:36.51 | f00f- | dare i pull out the code |
| 03:36.53 | f00f- | checks |
| 03:37.01 | muthu | right the same thing |
| 03:37.09 | muthu | can it be used with preferences? |
| 03:37.17 | f00f- | <PROTECTED> |
| 03:37.17 | f00f- | <PROTECTED> |
| 03:37.18 | f00f- | <PROTECTED> |
| 03:37.18 | f00f- | <PROTECTED> |
| 03:37.18 | f00f- | <PROTECTED> |
| 03:37.20 | f00f- | <PROTECTED> |
| 03:37.24 | muthu | great!! |
| 03:37.32 | muthu | thx bud |
| 03:37.37 | f00f- | you bet |
| 03:37.37 | muthu | let me copy, paste |
| 03:38.01 | muthu | where you get that? |
| 03:38.11 | f00f- | i stole it from ApiDemos |
| 03:38.16 | muthu | i'm checking.. |
| 03:38.18 | muthu | not found |
| 03:38.29 | f00f- | i hacked into google.com and stole it? |
| 03:38.32 | f00f- | i don't remember really |
| 03:38.35 | muthu | ha |
| 03:38.56 | f00f- | but it doesn't look all that better iirc |
| 03:39.08 | muthu | hmm |
| 03:39.08 | f00f- | you let me know how it is versus a checkbox |
| 03:39.19 | muthu | its not in apidemos |
| 03:39.23 | muthu | you hacked it |
| 03:39.41 | f00f- | sux4me |
| 03:39.50 | muthu | hey! |
| 03:39.59 | muthu | there's not YesNoPreference class |
| 03:40.42 | f00f- | wtf |
| 03:40.50 | muthu | they removed in 1.0 |
| 03:41.12 | muthu | it must be a style attribute for checkbox |
| 03:41.30 | f00f- | yes, that would make more sense |
| 03:41.41 | muthu | not sure which attribute |
| 03:45.25 | muthu | anyone know on/off toggle style for checkbox? |
| 03:45.50 | muthu | f00f-: are you launching 22? |
| 03:46.01 | f00f- | muthu: not at this time |
| 03:46.06 | *** join/#android cheng (n=cheng@xhss50-1508ca.wh14.tu-dresden.de) |
| 03:46.07 | muthu | why? |
| 03:46.13 | muthu | pednav should be cool |
| 03:46.28 | f00f- | it will be, but i need to get a phone to try it on |
| 03:46.33 | f00f- | not going to release something without real-world testing |
| 03:46.35 | f00f- | no way |
| 03:46.42 | muthu | hmmm |
| 03:46.58 | muthu | blame it on google ;) |
| 03:47.04 | f00f- | already did ;) |
| 03:47.22 | muthu | i'll release it with a disclaimer |
| 03:47.34 | f00f- | we're shooting for a november launch |
| 03:47.49 | muthu | any feedback call: android@google.com |
| 03:47.55 | f00f- | he |
| 03:47.56 | f00f- | h |
| 03:47.59 | muthu | hehe |
| 03:48.16 | muthu | or ask the user to send his device for testing.. lol |
| 03:48.50 | muthu | ha.. should be buttonstyletoogle |
| 03:48.53 | muthu | for checkbox |
| 03:49.05 | f00f- | hm |
| 03:49.58 | muthu | i gave up on o/s |
| 03:50.08 | muthu | and decided to write some code instead |
| 03:50.26 | muthu | fedora and ubuntu.. both screwed me l-r, t-b |
| 03:56.06 | muthu | ok, there's a summaryoff/on |
| 04:00.23 | f00f- | umm okay |
| 04:00.47 | muthu | still not sure, where got yesnopreference |
| 04:01.15 | f00f- | check 0.9 or private builds if you still |
| 04:01.16 | f00f- | have |
| 04:01.25 | f00f- | i'm pretty sure i copied it from a sample |
| 04:01.27 | muthu | ok, might be 0.9 |
| 04:01.45 | f00f- | yeah there was a Preferences sample |
| 04:01.47 | f00f- | in ApiDemos |
| 04:01.56 | muthu | right, i'm looking at 1.0 |
| 04:02.00 | muthu | and yesno is gone |
| 04:02.08 | f00f- | was it stated in the ChangeLog ? |
| 04:02.14 | muthu | let me look |
| 04:02.55 | muthu | no, they don't write anything about samples |
| 04:03.06 | muthu | summary on/off is cool |
| 04:03.10 | muthu | it does the toggle trick |
| 04:08.48 | *** join/#android muthu_ (n=chatzill@218.248.24.81) |
| 04:21.51 | muthu_ | i'm beginning to like the content provider concept |
| 04:40.17 | *** join/#android gabino (n=gabino@ip68-0-73-101.tu.ok.cox.net) |
| 04:59.11 | f00f- | i still haven't hooked on to it |
| 05:05.45 | *** join/#android muthu (n=sara@218.248.24.81) |
| 05:06.09 | *** join/#android illuminum (n=sharabsh@c-98-222-50-165.hsd1.il.comcast.net) |
| 05:22.00 | muthu | how to check if network is on? |
| 05:23.10 | muthu | from a running emulator can we turn on/off network |
| 05:35.48 | muthu | irc testing.. check.. 1 2 3 |
| 05:36.44 | mickrobk | check out connectivityManager |
| 05:36.57 | mickrobk | idk if theres any good way to test in the emulator tho |
| 05:36.58 | muthu | what's the service? |
| 05:37.10 | mickrobk | Context.CONNECTIVITY_SERVICE |
| 05:37.14 | muthu | thx |
| 05:37.17 | mickrobk | np |
| 05:37.24 | muthu | what's up rob? |
| 05:37.31 | mickrobk | notalot |
| 05:37.34 | muthu | ready for Androgeddon? |
| 05:37.39 | mickrobk | :\ |
| 05:37.47 | mickrobk | yea |
| 05:37.48 | muthu | hehe\ |
| 05:37.50 | mickrobk | lotta work tho |
| 05:37.52 | mickrobk | u? |
| 05:37.57 | muthu | getting ready |
| 05:38.06 | muthu | now that 22 is fixed |
| 05:38.10 | muthu | alteast got some motiv |
| 05:38.16 | mickrobk | ive had to take the week off of android to make sure i dont fail out of school... |
| 05:38.23 | mickrobk | but no i can work on android again |
| 05:38.29 | muthu | good |
| 05:38.32 | mickrobk | :) yea it's good to have a date |
| 05:38.32 | muthu | break helps |
| 05:38.36 | mickrobk | yea |
| 05:38.47 | muthu | date break reely helps |
| 05:39.12 | mickrobk | think ur gonna lauch with the phone? |
| 05:39.19 | muthu | yes |
| 05:39.30 | muthu | if the market is open |
| 05:39.36 | muthu | we open to upload |
| 05:39.49 | mickrobk | hopefully they announce more soon |
| 05:40.02 | muthu | hope hope hope |
| 05:40.21 | mickrobk | ive got to figure out if i want to be on other app stores as well |
| 05:40.22 | muthu | hope goog ships gphone to everyone |
| 05:40.33 | muthu | market will rule |
| 05:40.36 | mickrobk | that would be nice :) |
| 05:40.36 | muthu | and may be one other |
| 05:40.40 | muthu | like handango |
| 05:40.53 | mickrobk | yea |
| 05:40.56 | muthu | since market is free, that's where the crowd would be |
| 05:41.13 | mickrobk | i wonder if many will move to handango just b/c of the free thing |
| 05:41.26 | mickrobk | it would make it hard to exist on both for the first bit anyway |
| 05:41.27 | muthu | yup, paid apps will |
| 05:41.41 | muthu | no you can put a premium on handgo |
| 05:41.44 | muthu | free on market |
| 05:41.51 | mickrobk | i suppose the real question is if the customers will migrate |
| 05:42.01 | muthu | this is great for users |
| 05:42.05 | muthu | they can try free on market |
| 05:42.06 | mickrobk | lite version on AM and full on handango |
| 05:42.11 | muthu | then buy on handango |
| 05:42.31 | muthu | if users happy, they buy |
| 05:42.34 | mickrobk | that wouldn't be to bad |
| 05:42.39 | muthu | put ad driven on market |
| 05:42.44 | mickrobk | u know what handango is changing? |
| 05:42.50 | mickrobk | ive got to email that guy back |
| 05:42.51 | muthu | 50/50 |
| 05:42.56 | mickrobk | steep |
| 05:42.59 | muthu | developers.handango.com |
| 05:43.05 | f00f- | sux |
| 05:43.09 | muthu | yeah |
| 05:43.10 | f00f- | not worth it |
| 05:43.16 | muthu | 70/30 over a mil |
| 05:43.24 | muthu | 60/30 over 500k |
| 05:43.30 | muthu | 50/50 for anything less |
| 05:43.52 | mickrobk | interesting |
| 05:44.05 | muthu | so pretty much 50-50 |
| 05:44.22 | muthu | registered, but yet to look at TOS |
| 05:44.35 | mickrobk | 500k per annum? |
| 05:44.41 | muthu | sales |
| 05:44.54 | muthu | sorry, revenue |
| 05:44.57 | muthu | you're right |
| 05:45.19 | muthu | register, its free |
| 05:45.26 | muthu | just check it out |
| 05:45.43 | muthu | we have atleast 5 different markets now |
| 05:46.02 | mickrobk | is slideME launching with the phone? |
| 05:46.08 | muthu | yeah |
| 05:46.13 | mickrobk | who other than them and handango |
| 05:46.15 | muthu | they're open 22 |
| 05:46.23 | mickrobk | (and the official) |
| 05:46.29 | muthu | market, handagno, slideme |
| 05:46.37 | muthu | then found a few others in forum |
| 05:46.49 | muthu | gibara has some sorta updater |
| 05:46.53 | muthu | not sure if that's market |
| 05:47.23 | mickrobk | on his site? |
| 05:47.30 | muthu | yeah |
| 05:48.49 | illuminum | what's the primary android developer's forum, anddev? |
| 05:49.13 | mickrobk | illuminum: http://groups.google.com/group/android-developers/topics |
| 05:49.13 | muthu | http://groups.google.com/group/android-developers |
| 05:49.18 | mickrobk | beat u |
| 05:49.23 | muthu | hehe |
| 05:50.06 | illuminum | google groups is more like a mailing list |
| 05:50.13 | illuminum | i.e. spam-your-inbox model rather than a discussion forum |
| 05:50.48 | muthu | anddev is also popular |
| 05:50.53 | muthu | androidforums.com |
| 05:51.08 | muthu | friendfeed.com/rooms/android |
| 05:51.23 | f00f- | androidzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz |
| 05:51.24 | muthu | friendfeed will be perfect |
| 05:51.27 | snadge | obama has an iphone app |
| 05:51.38 | snadge | someone needs to contact whomever made that and port it to android ;) |
| 05:51.39 | mickrobk | its a good idea to just put update reminder as a notification, i was planning on spamming the user with a dialog box everytime they opened it |
| 05:52.06 | muthu | notification is the best |
| 05:54.25 | illuminum | offtopic: work is giving me a free macbook pro and i feel like a dirty whore for accepting |
| 05:54.43 | muthu | yeah you are :) |
| 05:55.04 | muthu | reject it and cleanse yourself ;) |
| 05:55.09 | illuminum | i want to see apple burn to the ground but having a platform that'll run software-hoarders apps might have its advantages since they're not going away overnight |
| 05:55.20 | illuminum | my linux laptop is really slow and old :( |
| 05:55.28 | muthu | linux sucks |
| 05:55.33 | muthu | the last 10 days was hell |
| 05:55.38 | illuminum | what do you expect me to run? the hurd? |
| 05:55.45 | muthu | hehe |
| 05:55.59 | muthu | xp |
| 05:56.08 | illuminum | aye |
| 05:58.18 | illuminum | offtopic again: how can I get into google without a formal cs bachelor's. I've got a bachelor's in accountancy and a masters in accountancy/it management coming up in a semester or so, and I do development and info-sys design/management with NCSA |
| 05:59.13 | muthu | are you friends with sergey? |
| 05:59.20 | illuminum | no |
| 05:59.38 | muthu | hmm.. then prolly need to send your resume |
| 06:00.07 | muthu | labs.google.com |
| 06:05.00 | illuminum | aye I suppose so, I was just intimidated by the pre-req cs requirement--probabl difficult to get a resume seen when the ERP is hard-coded around things like that |
| 06:05.26 | illuminum | but whatever, maybe I'll just stick with NCSA and get another degree in CS while i'm here |
| 06:05.35 | muthu | you can try |
| 06:05.37 | muthu | never know |
| 06:07.26 | Adamant | illuminum: have a EE, CE, or Math bachelors |
| 06:08.22 | Adamant | I'm pretty sure Google will take those in lieu for a CS degree. Also Physics. you just have to have evidence you can code. |
| 06:13.59 | muthu | http://www.xconomy.com/boston/2008/10/02/locale-app-for-android-phones-wouldnt-even-be-possible-on-the-iphone-says-winner-of-275k-developer-challenge/ |
| 06:14.11 | muthu | wow! |
| 06:14.13 | muthu | nice team |
| 06:14.27 | muthu | 3 girls, 2 boys |
| 06:15.18 | muthu | simple idea, great execution |
| 06:15.41 | muthu | jasta: check it out |
| 06:25.41 | f00f- | daym |
| 06:26.45 | f00f- | were any of them at I/o ? |
| 06:27.47 | f00f- | 2nd page muthu |
| 06:27.49 | f00f- | of that interview |
| 06:27.53 | f00f- | look at the ON/OFF boxes |
| 06:28.03 | f00f- | that's waht the Yes/No prefernce was like |
| 06:34.57 | muthu | yup |
| 06:36.06 | *** join/#android muthu_ (n=chatzill@218.248.24.81) |
| 06:37.08 | kaze | has returned.. back again ..[gone/21h 53m 25s] |
| 06:41.59 | *** join/#android davidw (n=davidw@213.47.186.146) |
| 06:47.34 | umdk1d3 | home |
| 06:52.43 | kaze | is gone.. autoaway after 15 min ..[cyp(l/on.p/on)] |
| 06:55.25 | *** join/#android Hai-Fai (n=jarmo@hoasnet-fe35dd00-42.dhcp.inet.fi) |
| 07:08.00 | *** join/#android smacky_w1lf (n=smackywo@60-241-114-121.static.tpgi.com.au) |
| 07:09.09 | *** join/#android imade (n=imade@194.204.31.19) |
| 07:25.21 | muthu_ | who's the android architect? |
| 07:33.05 | *** join/#android woski (n=woski@65.182.51.67) |
| 07:35.56 | *** join/#android slux (n=slux@85-18-14-18.fastres.net) |
| 07:53.06 | muthu_ | who let the droid out? |
| 07:54.39 | gdsx | "routers everywhere"? |
| 07:56.30 | *** join/#android happy (n=ashok@c-98-219-52-83.hsd1.ga.comcast.net) |
| 07:57.08 | gdsx | Adamant, illuminum: fwiw, I studied Math and Linguistics |
| 07:57.32 | Adamant | gdsx: you work at Google? |
| 07:57.40 | Adamant | Linguistics is another good one |
| 07:57.41 | gdsx | yup; I'm on the Android team |
| 07:58.22 | Adamant | I wonder how they feel about Philosophers who work in the Logic arena. |
| 07:59.14 | muthu_ | android = the best mobile development platform |
| 07:59.27 | muthu_ | gdsx: who's the architect? |
| 07:59.35 | Adamant | muthu_: for the developer, you can't dispute that, at all. |
| 07:59.41 | muthu_ | oh yeah |
| 07:59.49 | muthu_ | un beee leeevable |
| 07:59.55 | Adamant | well, maybe if you like OpenMoko |
| 08:00.08 | muthu_ | android is as easy as java |
| 08:00.30 | muthu_ | android is the php of mobile |
| 08:00.58 | Adamant | muthu_: heh, don't say that |
| 08:01.13 | muthu_ | that gets the point across ;) |
| 08:01.18 | Adamant | php has some good points and a lot of very bad ones |
| 08:01.50 | muthu_ | ok |
| 08:01.54 | muthu_ | android is the vb of mobile |
| 08:01.56 | gdsx | muthu_: that's like asking who the architect of GNU/Linux is. It's a team effort, and different people designed different pieces |
| 08:02.15 | muthu_ | gdsx: the building blocks are great |
| 08:02.28 | Adamant | muthu_: well I associate PHP with "omg if I run this my database server will be dumped to the RBN" |
| 08:02.29 | muthu_ | a few of them.. but just enough |
| 08:03.09 | muthu_ | there's activity, service, contentprovider |
| 08:03.11 | muthu_ | that's it |
| 08:03.16 | muthu_ | nice. |
| 08:05.57 | muthu_ | is there an inline edit box preference? |
| 08:12.30 | *** join/#android muthu (n=sara@218.248.24.81) |
| 08:12.36 | *** join/#android PoohbaLT (n=Poohba@c-98-235-52-97.hsd1.nj.comcast.net) |
| 08:12.39 | muthu | re |
| 08:13.51 | *** join/#android BBHoss (n=bbhoss@c-68-62-170-33.hsd1.al.comcast.net) |
| 09:08.51 | *** join/#android winfield (n=winfield@122.234.87.241) |
| 09:19.10 | *** join/#android woski (n=woski@65.182.51.67) |
| 09:31.39 | *** join/#android scatterp (n=prettacs@82-35-152-46.cable.ubr05.enfi.blueyonder.co.uk) |
| 09:33.06 | *** join/#android woski (n=woski@65.182.51.67) |
| 09:54.27 | *** join/#android borism (n=boris@195-50-206-234-dsl.krw.estpak.ee) |
| 10:06.03 | *** join/#android borism (n=boris@195-50-206-234-dsl.krw.estpak.ee) |
| 10:07.30 | *** join/#android illuminum (n=sharabsh@c-98-222-50-165.hsd1.il.comcast.net) |
| 10:18.26 | *** part/#android muthu (n=sara@218.248.24.81) |
| 10:23.03 | *** join/#android TheOther (n=nahh@ti131310a340-1463.bb.online.no) |
| 10:23.12 | *** join/#android muthu (n=sara@218.248.24.81) |
| 11:07.19 | *** join/#android chumphries_ (n=chumphri@pdpc/supporter/monthlybronze/chumphries) |
| 11:09.56 | *** join/#android an_dev (n=PAYAL@host-208-68-238-61.biznesshosting.net) |
| 11:47.27 | *** join/#android schmylan (n=schmylan@38.114.108.2) |
| 11:47.52 | *** join/#android plusminus_ (i=4421a620@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-4b8a9752eb68adf2) |
| 11:50.18 | *** join/#android mazzen (n=mortel@u30-237.dsl.vianetworks.de) |
| 11:51.09 | *** part/#android muthu (n=sara@218.248.24.81) |
| 11:53.10 | *** join/#android muthu_ (n=chatzill@218.248.24.81) |
| 12:00.44 | *** join/#android kslater (n=kslater@206.193.242.16.nauticom.net) |
| 12:03.18 | *** join/#android Dougie187 (n=doug@wg-d232030.dsl.fsu.edu) |
| 12:09.34 | Dougie187 | so.. whats this new market stuff? |
| 12:17.40 | *** join/#android chumphries_ (n=chumphri@pdpc/supporter/monthlybronze/chumphries) |
| 12:18.40 | Dougie187 | http://www.engadget.com/2008/10/02/android-market-will-offer-free-trials-but-not-free-bandwidth/ |
| 12:18.41 | Dougie187 | ? |
| 12:23.18 | monteslu | The last few sentences were difficult to parse. |
| 12:26.32 | muthu_ | what? you offer free apps and tmobile charges you |
| 12:26.59 | muthu_ | don't think the free apps can survive |
| 12:28.46 | *** join/#android pardom (n=pardom@75.144.91.181) |
| 12:31.25 | monteslu | I can't see that sticking |
| 12:41.19 | Dougie187 | muthu_: i don't think you understood it.. |
| 12:41.24 | Dougie187 | its not tmobile charges for free apps. |
| 12:41.36 | Dougie187 | its tmobile charges for free apps that use more then 15MB of data per month |
| 12:41.47 | muthu_ | let me read again.. |
| 12:42.03 | Dougie187 | and i think the bandwidth they are trying to limit is in app bandwidth |
| 12:42.03 | monteslu | how do they distinguish its an app instead of the browser using bandwith? |
| 12:42.10 | muthu_ | Meanwhile, T-Mobile at least will be levying a $2/month fee on developers of free apps expected to use more than the (somewhat arbitrary) amount of 15MB of data per user per month, though how they'll be keeping track of that data outside of their own content stack is unclear -- our guess is that they can' |
| 12:42.11 | Dougie187 | so like turn by turn directions. |
| 12:42.11 | monteslu | and why do they care? |
| 12:42.24 | Dougie187 | monteslu: thats what they said they don't think they can do that. |
| 12:42.32 | muthu_ | per user per month |
| 12:42.35 | muthu_ | woah! |
| 12:42.35 | monteslu | very confusing article |
| 12:42.48 | monteslu | "fee on developers" |
| 12:42.52 | Dougie187 | monteslu: probably because they get some commission from apps. |
| 12:43.12 | Dougie187 | i still think its a cap for in app use. |
| 12:43.24 | Dougie187 | not from people downloading free apps from the store. |
| 12:43.26 | Dougie187 | but ionno |
| 12:43.30 | Dougie187 | it is a very confusing article |
| 12:43.33 | muthu_ | this is basically saying, dont give apps for free |
| 12:43.54 | monteslu | maybe they mean 15mb worth of their bandwith in distributing the free apps |
| 12:44.00 | tomgibara | That article is totally without sources - I'll wait until there's some actual news to read. |
| 12:44.21 | monteslu | I'm liking engadet less and less every article I see |
| 12:44.22 | Dougie187 | one of the comments below it says that they only charge for apps bought from tmobiles app store. |
| 12:44.26 | Dougie187 | not android, but ionno |
| 12:44.50 | Dougie187 | "Whether T-Mobile's bandwidth charge is enforceable or not is irrelevant for Android developers. The charge applies only to applications sold via T-Mobile's Applications Store and that store doesn't contain any Android applications - they are specifically excluded! For Android applications, go to other places, such as Google's Android Market. Therefore, no Android developers should be subject to T-Mobile's $2 bandwidth charge - at least for now. E |
| 12:45.55 | muthu_ | oh ok |
| 12:46.02 | muthu_ | tmobile store will feature only paid apps |
| 12:46.15 | monteslu | I didnt realise there were two stores |
| 12:46.34 | monteslu | I'll make a guess at which one will actually have usage |
| 12:46.37 | monteslu | :) |
| 12:50.51 | muthu_ | android market and one more |
| 12:50.55 | muthu_ | not sure about the second one |
| 12:52.28 | muthu_ | tomgibara: moseycode on 22? |
| 12:53.55 | tomgibara | muthu_: Moseycode late december (earliest) |
| 12:54.28 | muthu_ | cool |
| 12:55.15 | muthu_ | the non availability of device is pushing the release dates for a lot of apps |
| 12:55.36 | gambler | all us chumps who are going to be peddling or giving away apps should create our own app store |
| 12:57.18 | tomgibara | muthu_: that's true, but how much does that matter? |
| 12:57.28 | tomgibara | It might matter more to the OHA, than us. |
| 12:57.29 | muthu_ | it matters in the media |
| 12:57.50 | muthu_ | the look at all kinda numbers |
| 12:58.36 | tomgibara | I think the Google/OHA can spin a perfectly reasonable story that you can't judge the success of the platform by the number of apps that are available in the first month |
| 12:59.50 | muthu_ | the constant comparison with iphone |
| 12:59.59 | *** join/#android plusminus__ (i=81020c44@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-bf63aedf84adc103) |
| 13:00.38 | tomgibara | muthu_: People are shortsighted about that... as soon as there are 3/4 phones with android, people won't obsess about that. |
| 13:00.55 | *** join/#android yakischloba (n=jake@209.160.56.254) |
| 13:01.02 | davidw | looking forward to lots of phones being out there |
| 13:01.22 | muthu_ | me too |
| 13:01.59 | muthu_ | davidw: how's your app coming along? |
| 13:02.02 | pardom | any suggestions on how to search for a contact by number programatically? |
| 13:02.27 | davidw | I just updated Hecl to 1.0 yesterday |
| 13:02.31 | davidw | haven't done a lot otherwise |
| 13:02.37 | muthu_ | ok |
| 13:03.29 | muthu_ | the user ratings.. can that be scammed? |
| 13:03.47 | muthu_ | in the market that is |
| 13:03.49 | tomgibara | why, are you planning to? |
| 13:03.53 | muthu_ | hehe |
| 13:04.16 | muthu_ | my plan is to first release ;) |
| 13:05.15 | tomgibara | Google have lots of experience with rating systems (amazingly trick in my experience) I hope they can produce a good system. |
| 13:05.25 | *** join/#android an_dev (n=PAYAL@host-208-68-238-61.biznesshosting.net) |
| 13:05.50 | tomgibara | *tricky |
| 13:05.53 | muthu_ | yeah, but their captchas etc., have been broken |
| 13:06.07 | tomgibara | what's that got to do with it? |
| 13:06.39 | muthu_ | hackers will break whatever good system there is |
| 13:07.33 | muthu_ | 111111AAAAAAA-mobeegal |
| 13:07.43 | tomgibara | Those are different things, gaming a system is different from hacking a system |
| 13:07.58 | muthu_ | yup |
| 13:08.01 | muthu_ | would be interesting |
| 13:08.27 | *** join/#android eleftherios (n=user@pdpc/supporter/sustaining/eleftherios) |
| 13:10.00 | gambler | tomgibara, I just read your moseycode webpage. |
| 13:10.27 | gambler | I think you are describing DNS for objects |
| 13:12.58 | tomgibara | gambler: It's certainly true that the barcode isn't the meat - it's the candy :) |
| 13:13.23 | tomgibara | Yes, the repository of chambers that define the content of the barcodes is key |
| 13:13.48 | yakischloba | i personally found it too abstract to grasp when i glanced at it a few months ago ;) |
| 13:13.49 | gambler | well i hope you take it further. I think alot of app developers would appreciate a well managed alternative to DNS |
| 13:14.01 | tomgibara | It provides much stronger semantics than barcode typically do (limited to URLs, contact details etc.) |
| 13:14.13 | gambler | that fetches a little more than just ip-addresses and MX records |
| 13:14.30 | tomgibara | The good news is that companies are already looking to adopt it |
| 13:15.13 | gambler | thats good. Is it a global namespace? |
| 13:15.20 | tomgibara | It is abstract, but it needs to be, it's basically an infrastructure project |
| 13:16.29 | tomgibara | gambler: It's based on the idea that a developer/individual registers a chamber id, then within that chamber, they can allocate (trillions) of their own ids. |
| 13:19.08 | tomgibara | I have a few android apps to release before moseycode though (much smaller thankfully) |
| 13:19.39 | gambler | i think you could make it attractive to developers if you also added in support for RFID lookups within the same chamberspace |
| 13:21.09 | tomgibara | gambler: Yes, there are many potential mappings that I can layer in, unfortunately, they'll have to wait a little while - since my focus will be returning to the android client-side |
| 13:23.39 | gambler | ive had similiar but more wild ideas...I think youve picked a good niche though. |
| 13:26.49 | muthu_ | is there an email example anywhere? |
| 13:27.31 | gambler | hotmail.com? |
| 13:27.36 | gambler | muthu_, what are you looking for |
| 13:29.41 | muthu_ | email from android |
| 13:31.15 | gambler | muthu_, google javamail...there is at least one really good GPL+w/classpath exception implementation |
| 13:31.34 | muthu_ | there must be an android api |
| 13:33.38 | tomgibara | muthu_: android.intent.action.SEND |
| 13:35.18 | *** join/#android cfreak201 (n=cfreak20@p54ADF4F0.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 13:35.29 | muthu_ | tomgibara: thx |
| 13:35.35 | muthu_ | checking out SEND |
| 13:40.13 | muthu_ | ACTION_ATTACH_DATA looks interesting |
| 13:40.29 | *** join/#android Benddd (n=ben@98.223.203.144) |
| 13:42.20 | muthu_ | don't think its for email attachemnts |
| 13:46.16 | *** join/#android mazzen (n=mortel@u30-237.dsl.vianetworks.de) |
| 13:46.26 | gambler | does anyone by any chance know what BT chipset the G1 is using? |
| 13:49.18 | *** join/#android Benddd (n=ben@98.223.203.144) |
| 13:49.59 | *** join/#android chumphries (n=chumphri@ge-7-0-15.rtr0.scra.hostnoc.net) |
| 13:57.22 | gambler | Obama has released an iphone app. |
| 13:57.41 | gambler | I guess apple thought it would be a little too Jim Crow for them to censor that... |
| 13:58.58 | gambler | in related news Sarah Palin has released a beauty accessory kit |
| 14:00.47 | muthu_ | nice |
| 14:12.51 | monteslu | obama made a comment that sarah's app used too much memory, calling it somewhat of a pig |
| 14:13.00 | monteslu | of course the right wing took it wrong |
| 14:13.03 | zhobbs | ouch |
| 14:38.47 | *** join/#android matt_c (n=mcroydon@gozur.sunflowerbroadband.com) |
| 14:45.52 | *** join/#android matt_c (n=mcroydon@gozur.sunflowerbroadband.com) |
| 14:51.02 | *** join/#android dipen (n=fdd001@host-208-68-238-61.biznesshosting.net) |
| 14:52.42 | *** part/#android Dougie187 (n=doug@wg-d232030.dsl.fsu.edu) |
| 14:52.59 | *** join/#android illustir (n=alper@s55912056.adsl.wanadoo.nl) |
| 14:55.58 | *** join/#android Benddd (n=ben@bakehouse-ap.bton.kiva.net) |
| 15:00.08 | *** join/#android inZane-_ (i=nemo@dslb-084-058-062-012.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 15:04.20 | *** join/#android mohbana (n=mohbana@87-194-191-26.bethere.co.uk) |
| 15:04.34 | mohbana | hi, is t-mobile that will ship android in the uk? |
| 15:05.25 | ttuttle | You mean the G1? |
| 15:05.25 | *** join/#android packetthirst (i=Packetth@202.83.40.161) |
| 15:06.49 | *** join/#android packetthirst (i=Packetth@202.83.40.161) |
| 15:07.14 | mohbana | ttuttle: is that the htc phone? will anything else be available? |
| 15:07.35 | *** join/#android eleftherios (n=user@pdpc/supporter/sustaining/eleftherios) |
| 15:08.30 | SanMehat | morning |
| 15:11.55 | summatusmentis | hi SanMehat |
| 15:12.35 | summatusmentis | congratulations, btw |
| 15:12.54 | ttuttle | SanMehat: morning |
| 15:13.07 | ttuttle | mohbana: the G1 is the only Android phone that has been announced to date. |
| 15:13.24 | ttuttle | mohbana: There will hopefully be more. |
| 15:13.27 | mohbana | ttuttle: ok then ... so g1 |
| 15:13.41 | mohbana | only t-mobile will ship that right? |
| 15:13.49 | ttuttle | mohbana: I don't know. |
| 15:14.14 | summatusmentis | mohbana: for the time being t-mobile/g1 are the only android phone/provider |
| 15:14.20 | summatusmentis | afaik |
| 15:14.38 | summatusmentis | motorola just hired a bunch of devs, so they'll probably be releasing an android phone at some point |
| 15:15.00 | summatusmentis | rumor has it there will be an android phone on sprint in 2009 |
| 15:15.08 | summatusmentis | or possibly before the end of 2008 |
| 15:15.23 | mohbana | i;'m asking about the carrier in the UK |
| 15:15.36 | mohbana | it's not going to be capped like apple did with the iphone is it? |
| 15:15.52 | summatusmentis | oh, UK... that I don't know |
| 15:22.18 | *** join/#android slux (n=slux@85-18-14-18.fastres.net) |
| 15:22.24 | *** join/#android anno^da (n=anno^da@p5B07D3EA.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 15:27.36 | Disconnect | thats a question for your carrier more than for the platform developers. like asking microsoft who is going to produce the next winmob phone - even if they know they can't say, and chances are they dont even know |
| 15:30.01 | Disconnect | so anyone know if you can have different google accounts for mail/contacts and calendar on the g1? |
| 15:30.57 | summatusmentis | Disconnect: I'm pretty sure it has to all be one account |
| 15:34.06 | Disconnect | damn. i've got some integration to do then :( |
| 15:34.41 | summatusmentis | I think you can reset the device to get to a different google account, but... |
| 15:35.00 | ttuttle | summatusmentis: There's no easy "switch accounts" option. It really is intended for a single account. |
| 15:35.16 | Disconnect | thats gonna be inconvenient when switching between my calendar (and the spam-filled disaster of the account there) and my personal email.. |
| 15:35.18 | muthu_ | this single google account requirement will be a big pain |
| 15:35.25 | Disconnect | yah. |
| 15:35.29 | ttuttle | Disconnect: move your calendar? |
| 15:35.34 | ttuttle | Oh. |
| 15:35.43 | ttuttle | You can use other email accounts with Email (not Gmail). |
| 15:35.54 | anno^da | is waiting for a totally different google independent PIM for Android :D |
| 15:36.16 | zhobbs | can't you get your gmail via imap? |
| 15:36.23 | ttuttle | anno^da: I'm actually interested in what happens. I hope someone makes an Exchange client, as then corporate users will be potential Android users. |
| 15:36.26 | Disconnect | ttuttle: moving the calendar is great except for the invites, sharing permissions, etc etc that are all set in the formerly-main account (basically everything except email) |
| 15:36.44 | ttuttle | zhobbs: Yeah, but then you're not using the Gmail interface. |
| 15:36.52 | *** join/#android romainguy__ (n=gfx@adsl-75-55-215-117.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net) |
| 15:36.57 | ttuttle | romainguy__: greetings |
| 15:40.44 | Disconnect | hmm. is google login supposed to be busted on the emulator? allows for username input but i can't select hte password field |
| 15:40.57 | zhobbs | I'd really like to know what app_thumbnails is in my app's data folder (/data/data/<package>/app_thumbnails)...it's getting huge, and I'm not the one writing to it |
| 15:41.52 | ttuttle | Disconnect: Where's the login field? |
| 15:42.08 | Disconnect | dev tools -> google login service |
| 15:42.22 | ttuttle | ok |
| 15:42.30 | Disconnect | clear, require google, it prompts |
| 15:42.44 | ttuttle | works for me |
| 15:42.46 | ttuttle | press the down arrow |
| 15:42.52 | ttuttle | wow |
| 15:42.57 | ttuttle | i was just about to type my password into irc |
| 15:43.00 | Disconnect | ahhh. i tried tab, i tried clicking, etc. |
| 15:43.01 | Disconnect | lol |
| 15:43.05 | Disconnect | that'd be pretty funny |
| 15:43.19 | ttuttle | Yeah, on the G1, I'd use the trackball. |
| 15:43.45 | Disconnect | tapping should prolly work too, at least if thats a prompt that is shipping on the device somewhere :) |
| 15:43.56 | ttuttle | Disconnect: I'm pretty sure it works. |
| 15:44.00 | ttuttle | Disconnect: (on the device) |
| 15:45.03 | Disconnect | cool |
| 15:52.46 | *** join/#android packetthirst (i=Packetth@202.83.40.161) |
| 15:53.46 | *** join/#android wastrel (n=wastrel@nylug/member/wastrel) |
| 16:04.00 | *** join/#android illustir (n=alper@s55912056.adsl.wanadoo.nl) |
| 16:22.29 | *** join/#android schmylan_ (n=schmylan@38.114.108.2) |
| 16:22.41 | herriojr | so, as it turns out, they have no current plan on supporting plain xml for creating an AttributeSet |
| 16:27.38 | *** join/#android dims (n=dims@c-76-24-122-109.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) |
| 16:34.28 | muthu_ | herriojr: how do you specify attributeset now? |
| 16:35.19 | herriojr | what do you mean by that? |
| 16:35.41 | herriojr | I filed a bug and that's what they told me...I was trying to create a view from plain xml |
| 16:36.00 | muthu_ | right, was wondering if you are work around with code |
| 16:36.38 | herriojr | Essentially, I did the following: http://pastebin.ca/1218162 |
| 16:36.50 | herriojr | oh, yeah, I'm going to do a work-a-round |
| 16:36.55 | herriojr | it's possible to do it |
| 16:37.09 | herriojr | I just have to build the view via java code instead of precompiled xml |
| 16:37.10 | muthu_ | checking.. |
| 16:37.45 | zhobbs | herriojr: it's an interesting idea...are these views going to be interactive in any way? how will that be handled? |
| 16:38.39 | herriojr | yeah, I was going to try and figure that out...I was going to maybe make a service that I could handle it, but I can't have multiple programs with the same service |
| 16:39.21 | zhobbs | you can have multiple activities connected to the same service |
| 16:39.38 | herriojr | no, I want a single activity connected to multiple of the same service |
| 16:39.46 | herriojr | which I can't do :) |
| 16:40.08 | herriojr | basically, I am trying to make it so my program allows addins |
| 16:40.50 | herriojr | without having to support a scripting language |
| 16:40.58 | muthu_ | doesn't bind let you do multiple? |
| 16:41.27 | herriojr | so, lets say I have multiple of the same aidl files in different apk's |
| 16:41.38 | herriojr | and I have one program that wants to access them all |
| 16:41.53 | herriojr | so they all have a common interface in which to interact |
| 16:42.03 | muthu_ | hmm |
| 16:42.11 | herriojr | that's what I'm trying to figure out next |
| 16:43.28 | herriojr | I might just have to have a subset of actions that may be performed to start with |
| 16:43.39 | herriojr | and just call the activity directly |
| 16:43.55 | herriojr | so on a button click, go to so-and-so activity |
| 16:44.01 | herriojr | in another apk |
| 16:45.38 | muthu_ | you mean through an intent? |
| 16:46.04 | herriojr | yeah, I don't know android all that well, I'm just trying to see if I can do what I want before I start :) |
| 16:46.51 | herriojr | so I just create really simple test applications to start |
| 16:47.11 | muthu_ | i don't think you can interoperate with apks |
| 16:47.38 | herriojr | you can't start another application from your own? |
| 16:48.27 | muthu_ | you can only raise an intent to do something |
| 16:48.28 | herriojr | I think you can, because their permission architecture seems to allow it |
| 16:48.35 | herriojr | yeah, that's fine |
| 16:48.49 | herriojr | I can create my own intents, correct? |
| 16:49.01 | muthu_ | right |
| 16:49.47 | herriojr | yeah, so that shouldn't be too much of a problem |
| 16:50.47 | muthu_ | but you can't be sharing aidl |
| 16:51.14 | herriojr | what do you mean by that? |
| 16:51.28 | herriojr | you mean multiple with the same aidl implemented? |
| 16:52.39 | herriojr | I was expecting I couldn't do that |
| 16:52.50 | muthu_ | are you saying you'll have multiple services running in different apks? |
| 16:53.14 | herriojr | I was thinking about doing it that way, but I found out that they don't seem to have any support for that |
| 16:53.24 | muthu_ | why would you do that? |
| 16:53.47 | *** join/#android cbeust (n=cbeust@64-142-66-175.dsl.static.sonic.net) |
| 16:54.38 | herriojr | so, from my main program, I obtain an xml description of the view which may have different actions that may be performed on that view |
| 16:54.48 | *** join/#android cbeust (n=cbeust@64-142-66-175.dsl.static.sonic.net) |
| 16:54.51 | herriojr | so I would have those other apk handle that |
| 16:55.00 | herriojr | and the view comes from one of the other apk's |
| 16:55.15 | herriojr | I'd have to have a common interface for all the apk "addins" in order to do this |
| 16:55.18 | herriojr | but it isn't possible |
| 16:55.31 | herriojr | so each addin would have implemented the same service |
| 16:56.29 | herriojr | basically, I'm trying to allow an apk to run in my main apk |
| 16:57.00 | muthu_ | hmmmmm |
| 16:57.01 | herriojr | which as far as I know, android doesn't support, so I have to hack a way around it |
| 16:57.21 | herriojr | so it might not be the most ideal solution, but I'll use whatever works at this point |
| 16:57.44 | muthu_ | why do you want to run an apk inside an apk? |
| 16:58.18 | *** join/#android cbeust_ (n=cbeust@72.14.224.1) |
| 16:58.25 | herriojr | so, lets say I have a very basic mail program that just sends and receives emails and allows you to read and write them |
| 16:58.39 | herriojr | now lets say I want to allow anyone to write a filter that my program will use |
| 16:58.51 | herriojr | and I want the mail program to allow multiple filters |
| 16:59.31 | herriojr | or any other type of feature you may want someone else to be able to implement |
| 16:59.37 | herriojr | without having access to your code |
| 16:59.45 | zhobbs | herriojr: yeah, I'd like to come up with a good system to allow people to write plugins... |
| 16:59.58 | herriojr | that's what I'm trying to create at the moment |
| 17:00.04 | herriojr | it might be hackish, but if it works, it works |
| 17:00.14 | herriojr | I guess plugin would be a better term for it :) |
| 17:01.03 | herriojr | Even BREW allows you to do this in some respects :) |
| 17:01.43 | *** join/#android Yeggstry (n=mind@cpc1-rdng14-0-0-cust946.winn.cable.ntl.com) |
| 17:02.25 | herriojr | I can easily create a program to allow plugins in BREW....it's not hard at all |
| 17:03.32 | ttuttle | herriojr: Blasphemy! |
| 17:03.42 | herriojr | lol |
| 17:04.11 | wastrel | what's BREW? |
| 17:04.20 | herriojr | http://brew.qualcomm.com/ |
| 17:04.30 | herriojr | it's what verizon uses on its phones for programming |
| 17:04.45 | herriojr | cingular uses j2me |
| 17:04.50 | herriojr | BREW is an API written in C |
| 17:05.34 | *** join/#android pjv (n=pjv@91.178.27.121) |
| 17:05.59 | wastrel | so you want to be able to have a richer interface between the plugin and your program than you would have if the plugin were just another activity? |
| 17:06.49 | muthu_ | service already lets you bing by interfaces |
| 17:07.04 | herriojr | I want my plugin to be able to be inserted into another activity |
| 17:07.16 | herriojr | so if I want to display a list of activities, I could |
| 17:07.30 | herriojr | *list of plugins |
| 17:08.04 | muthu_ | you write an activity |
| 17:08.12 | muthu_ | and make it available through intents |
| 17:08.23 | herriojr | so an activity can be placed inside another activity? |
| 17:08.28 | herriojr | from another apk? |
| 17:09.00 | wastrel | like you can call the maps app from within your activity and get a location back |
| 17:09.00 | herriojr | I thought activities take up the whole screen |
| 17:09.03 | wastrel | i think there's a tutorial |
| 17:09.20 | wastrel | no you can have non-fullscreen activities. there's also a multiple activity activity i forget the name. |
| 17:09.25 | wastrel | subclass of activity |
| 17:09.32 | ttuttle | wastrel: Tabs? |
| 17:09.45 | herriojr | I thought the maps stuff is a API |
| 17:09.52 | wastrel | activitygroup |
| 17:09.57 | zhobbs | ActivityGroup lets you embed them |
| 17:10.06 | zhobbs | though not sure if you can embed them from another package |
| 17:10.32 | herriojr | yeah, if I can't embed them from another package, it can't really be considered a plugin, I'd have to bake them into my app |
| 17:11.49 | muthu_ | plugins are provided by intents |
| 17:12.52 | zhobbs | muthu_: that just launches an activity though |
| 17:13.04 | kslater | does anyone know if you can somehow key in a ctrl+key code into the emulator? |
| 17:13.55 | herriojr | muthu: I don't want it to launch an activity in another apk, but instead display its activity inside my activity |
| 17:14.40 | muthu_ | android doesn't support that |
| 17:14.55 | zhobbs | herriojr: might want to try ActivityGroup |
| 17:15.07 | zhobbs | it might work across packages...who knows |
| 17:16.19 | herriojr | ok, I'll try taht |
| 17:16.32 | herriojr | *that |
| 17:16.54 | zhobbs | here's some code, just change the intent to one in another package: |
| 17:16.56 | zhobbs | http://code.google.com/p/android/issues/detail?id=879 |
| 17:19.00 | *** join/#android ArteK (n=ArteK@artekw.cerbero.pl) |
| 17:22.57 | herriojr | well, if it works, our plugin problem should disappear :) |
| 17:23.47 | herriojr | well, somewhat |
| 17:24.07 | muthu_ | android system is full of plugins |
| 17:24.34 | muthu_ | for example: openintents is all about plugins |
| 17:26.45 | *** join/#android Benddd (n=ben@bakehouse-ap.bton.kiva.net) |
| 17:32.32 | *** join/#android Fus (n=rafal@host-81-190-8-105.gdynia.mm.pl) |
| 17:33.31 | herriojr | awesome, great link muthu |
| 17:36.04 | *** join/#android Dougie187 (n=doug@wg-d232030.dsl.fsu.edu) |
| 17:43.18 | herriojr | muthu: this definately looks to be what I was looking for |
| 17:54.49 | *** join/#android tonyacunar_ (n=joseacun@c-76-16-208-53.hsd1.il.comcast.net) |
| 18:01.02 | *** join/#android tethridge (n=tale@207.235.54.1) |
| 18:01.42 | *** join/#android an_dev (n=PAYAL@host-208-68-238-61.biznesshosting.net) |
| 18:02.16 | an_dev | can anybody tell me, for testing purpose can i chnage the language, like from english to spanish, in emulator? |
| 18:02.21 | an_dev | and if yes, then how? |
| 18:02.31 | zhobbs | you can't yes |
| 18:02.33 | zhobbs | yet* |
| 18:03.25 | pjv | tomgibara: ping |
| 18:04.00 | zhobbs | an_dev: http://code.google.com/android/devel/resources-i18n.html#i18n |
| 18:04.42 | an_dev | thanks a lot zhobbs |
| 18:05.08 | an_dev | but i saw the language folder in my sdk folder :â\android-sdk-windows-1.0_r1\tools\lib\res\defaultâ |
| 18:05.14 | an_dev | under this directory |
| 18:05.17 | tomgibara | pjv: here |
| 18:05.26 | an_dev | why is this folders are there if they don't support it |
| 18:05.46 | zhobbs | an_dev: I'm sure they will soon |
| 18:05.51 | pjv | tomgibara, I'm looking to use veecheck in my app |
| 18:05.54 | romainguy | an_dev: they are supported |
| 18:06.00 | romainguy | the system can be built with a locale for instance |
| 18:06.11 | pjv | the sample app zip you made seems to miss veecheck.util |
| 18:06.32 | tomgibara | miss how? |
| 18:07.09 | an_dev | romainguy:really? |
| 18:07.11 | an_dev | how? |
| 18:07.19 | pjv | ah I see now, they belong to the jar |
| 18:07.25 | tomgibara | (it's quite possible I missed something, when I zipped it all together - I haven't put together a publish script) |
| 18:08.10 | tomgibara | pjv: Yes, maybe I should make that clear - the sample app depends on the veecheck library |
| 18:09.05 | tomgibara | Also I realized that I forgot to inform potential users that they can register for boot completed events (to make sure the polling starts on a device restart) |
| 18:09.21 | pjv | also, I'm somewhat confused about the roles of the VeecheckReceiver and the VeecheckService |
| 18:09.53 | herriojr | muthu: actually, it may not be what I'm looking for |
| 18:09.54 | pjv | at least the createSettings() and createNotifier() methods aren't well-chosen (as names) |
| 18:10.06 | tomgibara | why? |
| 18:10.10 | pjv | maybe rename them createVeecheckSettings() etc? |
| 18:10.41 | jasta | whats Veecheck? |
| 18:10.49 | tomgibara | well a method called createSettings on a VeecheckReceiver class that returns a VeecheckSettings object doesn't need another Veecheck does it :) |
| 18:11.16 | pjv | see, I'm confused because SampleService doesn't contain a great deal of code |
| 18:11.22 | tomgibara | jasta: just this: http://www.tomgibara.com/android/veecheck/ |
| 18:11.36 | pjv | it just implements the createNotifier method and returns a notifier that is already another class |
| 18:12.01 | jasta | neat, but hopefully android provides this mechanism itself |
| 18:12.01 | tomgibara | pjv: It contains only the code the needs to be done on the main thread |
| 18:12.02 | pjv | SampleNotifier which extends BaseNotifier |
| 18:12.12 | jasta | i hate when application developers have to fuss with distribution |
| 18:12.17 | *** join/#android Benddd (n=ben@98.223.203.144) |
| 18:12.42 | pjv | my gut feeling here is that you could save a lot of these inheritances |
| 18:12.55 | pjv | but then again I should look into it deeper ;-) |
| 18:12.58 | tomgibara | back soon |
| 18:13.03 | pjv | sure |
| 18:17.58 | *** join/#android rufus__ (n=rufus@c-98-228-181-211.hsd1.il.comcast.net) |
| 18:29.49 | chouman82 | quick question regarding the map functions in android |
| 18:30.10 | chouman82 | is there a method in map that searches for business around a certain location? |
| 18:31.05 | *** join/#android flynn (n=chatzill@mail.vs-us.com) |
| 18:31.38 | *** part/#android pardom (n=pardom@75.144.91.181) |
| 18:35.41 | *** join/#android qvark (n=qvark@84.79.155.52) |
| 18:42.53 | tomgibara | pjv: I was going to say that producing a java library like this for android strikes me as a bit tricky - creation of the components is delegated, but there's no mechanism (eg. JNDI or IOC) for customizing them at the Java object level. |
| 18:43.32 | pjv | ok |
| 18:43.45 | pjv | I see what you mean |
| 18:44.22 | pjv | the package is of very good quality actually (as well as the docs) |
| 18:44.37 | pjv | it's also a 'good' black box |
| 18:44.45 | tomgibara | tricky is a relative term here - this library was very easy to write quickly, but it is lacking in its API. I couldn't quickly see a clean way to make it customizable and clean |
| 18:44.57 | pjv | just that the interfacing with it could be a little smaller |
| 18:45.15 | *** join/#android poetic_folly|G5 (n=poetic_f@213-39.103-97.tampabay.res.rr.com) |
| 18:45.26 | pjv | well, what do I want for version checking in my app? |
| 18:45.51 | pjv | I suppose I want to have a way to tell your lib to do a version check (an intent can do that) |
| 18:45.55 | pjv | second.. |
| 18:46.10 | pjv | I want to tell it what to check and where -> via the preferences |
| 18:46.30 | pjv | and thridly I might want to supply a message for the notification |
| 18:46.36 | pjv | but thats it |
| 18:46.45 | tomgibara | pjv: and that's just what I provide for isn't it? |
| 18:46.50 | pjv | your lib is capable of much more (thats also a good thing) |
| 18:47.17 | pjv | well, do *I* need to provide the BroadcastReceiver for this? |
| 18:47.53 | tomgibara | yes, if you want periodic background checking |
| 18:48.12 | tomgibara | if you don't, you don't, you can just use the service |
| 18:48.38 | pjv | ok, I'm starting to see the why's now: |
| 18:48.41 | chouman82 | hey u guys know if there is a map related service that i can search for business around a certain geolocation? |
| 18:48.59 | pjv | you couldn't put the BroadcastReceiver in the lib because of android? |
| 18:49.49 | tomgibara | The base class for the BroadcastReceiver is in the lib, but my only option for allowing the client code to customize its settings is by allowing them to extend it |
| 18:50.39 | pjv | so I don't need to extend into a SampleRetriever? |
| 18:51.38 | tomgibara | Yes you do, because you need to supply an implementation of createSettings. I could have implemented that to return a PrefSettings by default, but I decided not to in the end |
| 18:51.42 | tomgibara | It was a close call |
| 18:53.02 | pjv | I'm not going to fight your call because I lack the insights for good judgement atm |
| 18:53.05 | tomgibara | My reasoning was that: I can't avoid extending the service (so the API will involve some extending anyway), the default implementation makes it less clear what is required of the extended class and since you need to register the receiver in the Manifest anyway, it seems cleaner that you are only registering your own components |
| 18:54.28 | jasta | hmm, i just had a novel thought |
| 18:54.33 | tomgibara | This library was written at great haste - and I may regret some of the judgements, most were just based on intuition gained by practice. |
| 18:54.39 | jasta | i'm going to prototype a few UIs before i actually functionally implement one |
| 18:54.43 | jasta | that will save lots of time :) |
| 18:55.13 | pjv | the docs say: createSettings: Supplies the settings that govern the operation of this BroadcastReceiver within the given context. |
| 18:55.19 | pjv | that's not at all clear |
| 18:55.30 | tomgibara | What should it say? |
| 18:55.50 | pjv | and then the implementation is "return new PrefSettings(context);", and I don't even *have* to know about PrefSettings |
| 18:56.31 | tomgibara | pjv: which class's docs are you looking at? |
| 18:56.36 | pjv | I have no idea, I haven't figured out what it does (or allows to do) yet, I would just copy this |
| 18:56.49 | chouman82 | anyone know what function i should use if i want to search for businesses around a certain location? |
| 18:56.49 | pjv | VeecheckReceiver |
| 18:57.11 | chouman82 | how can i do that with map activity? |
| 18:57.22 | pjv | and the implementation in SampleRetriever (should that be "receiver" btw?) |
| 18:57.46 | tomgibara | pjv: yes ideally for consistency it should, I changed the name at one point |
| 18:57.56 | jasta | hehe, the demo of TuneWiki shows a god awful music collection :) |
| 18:58.10 | jasta | i hope that was just a made up set for the video. blech. |
| 18:58.12 | pjv | tomgibara, I really can't tell it was written at haste, there are good prospects for it, just some rough edges since it's just released |
| 18:58.23 | tomgibara | pjv: I'm not clear what you expect the documentation of the createSettings method to tell you |
| 18:59.13 | tomgibara | pjv: :) don't worry about providing criticisms, those rough edges demonstrate how hasty it was |
| 18:59.33 | pjv | let's see |
| 18:59.58 | pjv | PrefSettings implements VeecheckSettings (which is a package down??) |
| 19:01.14 | pjv | ah ok |
| 19:01.15 | tomgibara | does that confuse you? (btw the package structure in Java nominally heierarchial, but technically flat) |
| 19:01.57 | pjv | (it does confuse) |
| 19:02.14 | tomgibara | It's a pretty standard idiom in java library design |
| 19:02.25 | pjv | ok, I see in createSettings() I can somewhat provide my proper source of preferences |
| 19:03.42 | pjv | it's not packages by themselves that confuse me, but I would expect the interface and the implementation class in the same package, at least for a simple lib like this |
| 19:04.12 | pjv | what's "util" about PrefSettings, that's not "util" about VeecheckSettings? |
| 19:04.37 | pjv | I think they are both util |
| 19:04.47 | tomgibara | As I said it's idomatic java - the util package is providing you with helper classes that the main library doesn't require |
| 19:04.57 | pjv | ah ok |
| 19:05.04 | tomgibara | In that sense they are strictly utilitarian |
| 19:05.44 | pjv | back to the createSettings() |
| 19:06.06 | pjv | suppose in my app I already have a PreferencesActivity and a source/file for preferences |
| 19:06.31 | pjv | then I would need to implement VeecheckSettings? |
| 19:06.37 | tomgibara | yes |
| 19:07.31 | pjv | and then I would supply that to the receiver |
| 19:07.47 | tomgibara | by extending it, yes. |
| 19:07.55 | pjv | yes |
| 19:08.10 | pjv | isn't there an easier way? like.. |
| 19:08.25 | pjv | like just passing on the name of the preferences file? |
| 19:08.52 | tomgibara | If you want to force the library to use a preferences file, yes, you could do that. |
| 19:09.12 | tomgibara | (I mean a SharedPreferences) |
| 19:09.28 | pjv | that would save me from 1) extending the receiver 2) implementing VeecheckSettings and somewhat 7 methods 3) probably some more stuff |
| 19:09.55 | pjv | any disadvantages with this? |
| 19:10.27 | pjv | 1) impossibility to save preferences in a "manual" way |
| 19:11.08 | tomgibara | pjv: you could argue that it's an error to assume in the implementation of PrefSettings, a particular name (though I think I've made the right call there), but I don't agree that its a good trade off |
| 19:11.29 | tomgibara | You have forever constrained the library design for what? |
| 19:12.02 | pjv | if you're making a black box you're always constraining at some level |
| 19:12.36 | pjv | when developing for android it would be reasonable to expect that people save their preferences in a SharedPreference |
| 19:12.38 | tomgibara | pjv: Yes, in principle the least constrained library is the one that does nothing - not a helpful argument :) |
| 19:13.07 | *** join/#android schmylan (n=schmylan@38.114.107.1) |
| 19:13.35 | tomgibara | These aren't entirely user preferences - and in some apps they may not be expressed as preferences at all. |
| 19:14.10 | pjv | hmm, ok, fair argument |
| 19:14.50 | tomgibara | One could regard storing the CHECK_URI in the preferences as an abuse of the preferences - it's belongs in the application 'domain', not preferences. |
| 19:15.12 | tomgibara | again it's a convenient trade off, but I don't want to force it onto the client code |
| 19:16.14 | pjv | true |
| 19:17.42 | pjv | and I suppose this discussion can be repeated for the notifications in the service?: rather than constraining to just the message of a notification, the lib currently allows to do *any* form of notification |
| 19:18.21 | tomgibara | pjv: Yes, though the need to customize the notification programmatically is more pressing |
| 19:18.55 | pjv | tomgibara, I would just stick with this design then |
| 19:19.04 | tomgibara | :) |
| 19:19.09 | pjv | but maybe you could add some of this reasoning to the documentation? |
| 19:19.18 | pjv | difficult to put in the api doc |
| 19:19.25 | pjv | but maybe in the sample app comments? |
| 19:19.50 | pjv | because it's just not clear from the docs |
| 19:20.00 | *** join/#android mohbana (n=mohbana@87-194-191-26.bethere.co.uk) |
| 19:20.04 | pjv | it's quite clear to me now because of your effort (thx btw) |
| 19:20.44 | pjv | docs often fail in the "what do they expect of me?" (regular behaviour) part |
| 19:20.59 | pjv | at least the android docs do fail there too sometimes |
| 19:21.03 | tomgibara | pjv: Gauss: "no self-respecting architect leaves the scaffolding in place after completing the building" |
| 19:22.00 | tomgibara | (I quote ironically) |
| 19:23.41 | pjv | thus far my feedback ;-) |
| 19:24.24 | pjv | thanks for your explanations, hope it was still useful |
| 19:24.49 | tomgibara | np, sure |
| 19:25.07 | *** join/#android rzajac (n=rzajac@216-237-48-242.orange.nextweb.net) |
| 19:25.32 | pjv | oh, and I'm pretty sure Gauss didn't draw or build buildings ;-) |
| 19:26.58 | tomgibara | pjv: He had eyes and knew the scaffolding got removed when buildings were finished :) |
| 19:28.13 | *** join/#android MatInPVB (n=saboteur@adsl-218-140-93.jax.bellsouth.net) |
| 19:28.52 | *** part/#android an_dev (n=PAYAL@host-208-68-238-61.biznesshosting.net) |
| 19:35.02 | *** join/#android MatInPVB (n=saboteur@adsl-218-140-93.jax.bellsouth.net) |
| 19:39.33 | *** join/#android mohbana (n=mohbana@87-194-191-26.bethere.co.uk) |
| 19:43.20 | *** part/#android qvark (n=qvark@84.79.155.52) |
| 19:46.24 | *** join/#android nivardus (n=gontaMal@unaffiliated/nivardus) |
| 19:53.09 | *** join/#android ishmal2 (i=20616e8e@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-8e579b8d77a9206f) |
| 19:53.28 | ishmal2 | hi all |
| 19:53.46 | ishmal2 | hey, im looking all over the site, and cant find any post-1.0 roadmap |
| 19:55.42 | zhobbs | ishmal2: this is the only one afaik http://www.android.com/timeline.html |
| 19:56.03 | herriojr | is it possible to return an activity from an intent? |
| 19:56.59 | zhobbs | herriojr: don't think so, unless you're using a LocalActivityManager |
| 19:57.07 | herriojr | hmm, ok |
| 19:57.20 | herriojr | I don't think the link mushu gave me earlier will work |
| 19:57.38 | herriojr | I think it's just a package with a bunch of pre-defined GUI structures, so you don't have to build them |
| 19:58.15 | herriojr | I don't think it allows for other application activities to be displayed in my activity group |
| 19:58.24 | ishmal2 | wondering when in the future i can dig up my app's code that used the GtalkService, and port it to whatever replaces it in the future |
| 20:03.15 | jasta | i'm really glad i avoided the gtalkservice ;) |
| 20:04.12 | ishmal2 | i know i can do it with a tcpip xmpp client, but the always-on part was the charm, |
| 20:04.24 | ishmal2 | and not impacting the user's monthly bandwidth |
| 20:04.34 | jasta | the "always-on" part was just that it was a service that tried to stay connected forever. |
| 20:04.51 | jasta | which you could write yourself |
| 20:08.59 | *** join/#android illustir (n=alper@s55912056.adsl.wanadoo.nl) |
| 20:09.04 | ishmal2 | i've done a couple of xmpp clients. also, Smack works wonders |
| 20:09.12 | ishmal2 | but i'll wait |
| 20:10.04 | Disconnect | is a fan of openfire actually, but havne't worked with smack (except as part of spark, which is .. meh..) |
| 20:10.12 | ishmal2 | they said "don't despair," so i won't :-) |
| 20:14.33 | ishmal2 | the only thing i dont like about Smack, is that the api for extending <message>s is kinda clumsy |
| 20:19.11 | ishmal2 | well, not "don't like" . just it could be better |
| 20:23.31 | *** join/#android milosF (n=milos@92.36.154.192) |
| 20:32.26 | *** join/#android chab7 (n=kvirc@212.92.4.114) |
| 20:39.29 | pjv | tomgibara, I incorporated it into my app, and I think I covered everything, yet I see no notifications |
| 20:39.49 | pjv | any pointers on debugging this? (like: how can I check if it fetches the xml?) |
| 20:41.40 | wastrel | what does the m in front of some variable names in the Notepad tutorial mean? |
| 20:41.42 | tomgibara | pjv: two things |
| 20:41.51 | wastrel | for example private final Context mCtx; |
| 20:42.52 | tomgibara | I forgot to cover in the documentation that the receiver can be registered for the BOOT_COMPLETED intent - that will kick off the scheduling of checks when the device boots |
| 20:43.53 | gdsx | wastrel: (guess) it's a class member variable |
| 20:44.02 | pjv | ok, to narrow things down I have the follwoing in my main activity's onCreate(): sendBroadcast(new Intent(VersioncheckBroadcastReceiver.ACTION_CONSIDER_CHECK)); |
| 20:44.27 | pjv | so a check should be made at the start of my app |
| 20:44.49 | pjv | and I am starting it |
| 20:45.34 | pjv | the SampleNotifier was complete wasn't it? |
| 20:46.53 | wastrel | gdsx: ok that makes sense. m(ember) |
| 20:47.06 | wastrel | and the exampels i have are all declared private |
| 20:47.16 | pjv | ok tried the different entry point, got an exception now, let's see |
| 20:48.48 | *** join/#android meoblast001 (n=meoblast@dynamic-acs-24-239-93-241.zoominternet.net) |
| 20:49.00 | tomgibara | the other thing is that there is debug under the "veecheck" tag |
| 20:49.18 | pjv | thats useful |
| 20:49.28 | tomgibara | (I forgot to check loggability before making verbose calls - that's another rough edge) |
| 20:52.45 | dd94300 | can i modify string.xml from my java code? |
| 20:55.18 | *** join/#android erus` (n=Tom@92.11.220.171) |
| 20:59.29 | *** join/#android Trevel (n=chatzill@ims-64-194-56-130.imsday.com) |
| 20:59.41 | Trevel | hi |
| 21:00.30 | f00f- | Disconnect: i used to get lots of crashes (VM deaths) with openfire until recently. |
| 21:00.44 | pjv | tomgibara, ok getting something at system startup: |
| 21:00.48 | pjv | 10-03 23:00:01.164: DEBUG/veecheck(158): Receiver called |
| 21:01.04 | pjv | 10-03 23:00:01.184: VERBOSE/veecheck(158): Receiver called with action: android.intent.action.BOOT_COMPLETED |
| 21:01.10 | pjv | 10-03 23:00:01.184: DEBUG/veecheck(158): Registering checks with alarm service |
| 21:01.15 | pjv | 10-03 23:00:03.534: VERBOSE/veecheck(158): Check period is 1000ms starting from Fri Oct 03 23:00:02 GMT+02:00 2008 |
| 21:01.42 | pjv | but no notifications |
| 21:03.52 | pjv | I should be getting a notification (in the status bar) every second now right (since the xml file I uploaded specifies the same version and an intent for it)? |
| 21:05.30 | herriojr | zhobbs: I got a reply back about creating plugins |
| 21:05.48 | herriojr | zhobbs: http://code.google.com/p/android/issues/detail?id=937 |
| 21:10.41 | *** join/#android anno^da (n=anno^da@p5B07D3EA.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 21:11.27 | zhobbs | herriojr: looks like that's using an ActivityGroup, getLocalActivity() is a method of ActivityGroup |
| 21:11.36 | zhobbs | getLocalActivityManager() I mean |
| 21:18.09 | herriojr | yeah, which I'm excited about |
| 21:18.47 | herriojr | I'm glad I can actually do it without doing some hocus pocus |
| 21:18.58 | herriojr | now I'll actually start building my app :) |
| 21:24.53 | *** join/#android ArteK (n=ArteK@artekw.cerbero.pl) |
| 21:31.32 | *** join/#android jasonlee (n=chatzill@38.114.107.11) |
| 21:31.58 | *** part/#android dd94300 (n=fdd001@host-208-68-238-61.biznesshosting.net) |
| 21:38.31 | mohbana | so the android isn't going to restricted to only t-mobile? |
| 21:39.16 | anno^da | Why should it be restricted to T-Mobile ? |
| 21:39.17 | jasonlee | android no, the G1, maybe.. |
| 21:39.31 | anno^da | Even the G1 is not. |
| 21:39.39 | jasta | well, in the US it basically is |
| 21:39.54 | jasta | if you want 3G anyway, and even still it could only go unlocked to AT&T (sans 3G) |
| 21:40.11 | jasta | the issue of locked-in control is largely hardware compatibility, in my mind. |
| 21:40.21 | mohbana | i'm talking about in UK |
| 21:40.23 | jasta | it's so much easier to lock consumers in when the devices largely are not interoperable |
| 21:41.15 | jasta | mohbana: well, who knows. the t-mobile CTO claims unlocked phones will be available, but it was not officially announced as an option so i dont know how to interpret that |
| 21:41.49 | jasta | doesn't much matter for me tho, my gf's brother is a low-level executive at T-Mobile with just enough power to get me unlocked and sometimes free devices ;) |
| 21:42.04 | jasonlee | i was pretty sure the t-mobile said the G1s were locked to t-mobile? |
| 21:42.37 | gdsx | what I've heard is that T-mobile will give you an unlock code after 90 days if you request it |
| 21:42.41 | jasta | jasonlee: and they are, but then the CTO is quoted the day of that announcement as saying that unlocked phones will be available. |
| 21:42.41 | anno^da | Well the CTO mentioned that unlocked phones will be available for 399 |
| 21:42.47 | jasta | and that consumers can unlock them themselves after so much time |
| 21:43.04 | jasonlee | ahh |
| 21:43.14 | jasta | but its really hard to interpret because he might have just been uninformed or something |
| 21:43.25 | anno^da | Yeah. And for people in Europe this would be perfect beacuse it is no problem to get sim cards here without a contract and with the possibility to use 3G |
| 21:46.23 | anno^da | But jasta is right we dont really know anything official. |
| 21:46.37 | anno^da | But well eBay will have lots of unlocked phones. ;) |
| 21:46.48 | jasta | well they have to come from somewhere to be on eBay |
| 21:47.02 | jasta | so that will depend on who can get unlocked phones and how? :) |
| 21:47.06 | zhobbs | ebay already has lots of g1's on there |
| 21:48.14 | *** join/#android tonyacunar (n=joseacun@c-76-16-208-53.hsd1.il.comcast.net) |
| 21:48.36 | jasta | zhobbs: theyre not unlocked tho, theyre just selling the presale ones |
| 21:48.42 | zhobbs | yeah |
| 21:48.45 | jasta | and theyre "no contract" but not unlocked |
| 21:48.50 | jasta | a really huge difference |
| 21:50.56 | jasta | i wonder what HTC's cost is on this device. |
| 21:53.02 | anno^da | I would assume that it is cheaper than the iPhone |
| 21:53.15 | unix_lappy | well it's certainly not as well built as the iphone |
| 21:54.15 | unix_lappy | and i've been hearing really bad things about the G1's battery life, about equivalent to the iphone 3g |
| 21:54.29 | zhobbs | unix_lappy: at least it's replaceable |
| 21:54.32 | jasta | yeah, it has less battery than my current winmo phone, and that thing dies all the time |
| 21:55.01 | benley | the g1's battery is less godawful than what was in my last winmo device |
| 21:55.03 | unix_lappy | zhobbs: well it'll obviously be easier to turn 3g on and off on the android phone. |
| 21:55.12 | *** join/#android Fus (n=rafal@host-81-190-8-105.gdynia.mm.pl) |
| 21:56.12 | gdsx | jasta: note that pre-production and production G1s will likely differ as far as battery lifespan (and, thus battery life) goes, due to some issues that were ironed out |
| 21:56.57 | jasta | gdsx: i just meant in terms of the mAh of the battery |
| 21:57.04 | jasta | so its a smaller battery than my current phone, at least |
| 21:57.10 | jasta | whether it is more efficient i dont know. probably is :) |
| 21:57.18 | gdsx | jasta: aah, ::nod:: |
| 21:57.40 | gdsx | jasta: basically, the capacity of pre-production devices will drop faster than that of the production devices |
| 21:59.58 | unix_lappy | well the g1 and the iphone are about 1400mAH. though the iPhone is underclocked. |
| 22:00.47 | unix_lappy | not sure how to compare power management though across devices. |
| 22:00.50 | dmoffett | In an effort to make it easy to change text, back ground colors etc in my app. All the color definitions are in a string file. These colors are referenced in the code to but when referenced in layouts I get a crash at runtime. Does anyone know if this concept is possible? |
| 22:00.50 | dmoffett | Example: |
| 22:00.50 | dmoffett | <PROTECTED> |
| 22:00.50 | dmoffett | <PROTECTED> |
| 22:00.52 | jasta | unix_lappy: uhh, i read 1150mAh |
| 22:01.37 | f00f- | yes |
| 22:01.40 | zhobbs | dmoffett: why not use <color /> ? |
| 22:02.35 | unix_lappy | jasta: whoops, yea the iphone is around 1400, the G1 is around 1200 |
| 22:02.50 | dmoffett | zhobbs: you mean in the layout? |
| 22:04.12 | unix_lappy | honestly thinks that coming out with the Touch HD and the G1 simultaneously as Android Devices would've garnered a much better release. |
| 22:04.38 | romainguy | unix_lappy: g1 is underclocked as well (the CPU is) |
| 22:04.43 | zhobbs | dmoffett: <resources><drawable name="black">#FF000000</drawable></resources> |
| 22:05.15 | zhobbs | android:textColor="@drawable/black" |
| 22:05.24 | dmoffett | zhobbs: thank you. I iwll study that for a bit. |
| 22:05.36 | zhobbs | but I think there is <color> / @color also |
| 22:05.48 | romainguy | there is |
| 22:05.55 | zhobbs | I define those in res/values/colors.xml |
| 22:09.18 | dmoffett | these xml files can make your life easier if you know what the hell you doing. :-) |
| 22:10.58 | unix_lappy | romainguy: from 528mhz to? |
| 22:11.08 | romainguy | swetland can give you the real number |
| 22:11.17 | unix_lappy | heh. |
| 22:11.39 | *** join/#android duey (n=duey@203.96.223.40) |
| 22:12.34 | romainguy | unix_lappy: but it's something like 384 Mhz |
| 22:12.43 | benley | that low? |
| 22:12.57 | romainguy | it's not that low :) |
| 22:13.01 | romainguy | it's just a phone after all |
| 22:13.23 | unix_lappy | meh, it's likely on par with the iPhone. |
| 22:13.56 | zhobbs | it's underclocked for power consumption? |
| 22:14.09 | romainguy | yes |
| 22:14.32 | *** join/#android WildCaterpillar (n=wildcate@msb1107.cse.ucdavis.edu) |
| 22:14.39 | romainguy | the CPU is also throttled dynamically |
| 22:14.44 | romainguy | but again swetland knows that stuff :)) |
| 22:17.43 | swetland | yeah, we run at 245-384MHz. 528 draws a good bit more power for not a huge performance gain. |
| 22:18.10 | swetland | we're working on improving the dynamic cpu scaling stuff and may boost the top speed once we're happy with the power/performance tradeoffs |
| 22:19.30 | *** join/#android cybereagle (n=cybereag@unaffiliated/cybereagle) |
| 22:20.50 | romainguy | so, again: |
| 22:20.51 | romainguy | dumb GC |
| 22:20.55 | romainguy | interpreted VM |
| 22:21.03 | romainguy | non-hw accelerated graphics rendering |
| 22:21.08 | romainguy | 384 Mhz |
| 22:21.18 | romainguy | there's room for improvement in future versions of Android :) |
| 22:21.36 | romainguy | it's actually pretty cool to see how fast our stuff run |
| 22:25.51 | jasta | romainguy: i love that, seeing huge opt potential and yet, reasonable performance |
| 22:25.56 | jasta | but don't get complacent ;) |
| 22:26.30 | romainguy | we don't |
| 22:26.48 | *** join/#android erikwt (n=erikwt@ip82-139-116-154.lijbrandt.net) |
| 22:28.05 | jasta | how do you mean by interpreted VM? no JIT? |
| 22:30.38 | jasta | hey, does the IMAP client support IMAP IDLE? |
| 22:30.51 | jasta | for push e-mail? |
| 22:31.36 | herriojr | I can't seem to get permissions to work properly, how do I set it up so I can start another apk? |
| 22:31.47 | gdsx | jasta: that's not really "push" |
| 22:31.54 | herriojr | I tried creating my own permission, but that doesn't seem to work |
| 22:31.58 | gdsx | jasta: that's just using the IDLE as a poll |
| 22:32.20 | gdsx | (unless the server can send an IDLE, I guess) |
| 22:32.56 | romainguy | jasta: yeah, no JIT |
| 22:33.00 | herriojr | in the calling package, I do <uses-permission android:name="com.mycompany.MYPERMISSION" /> |
| 22:33.09 | jasta | gdsx: how does that compare with "real" push? |
| 22:33.16 | romainguy | herriojr: did you declare the permission in your manifest? |
| 22:33.27 | romainguy | something like this: |
| 22:33.28 | romainguy | <PROTECTED> |
| 22:33.28 | romainguy | <PROTECTED> |
| 22:33.29 | romainguy | <PROTECTED> |
| 22:33.29 | romainguy | <PROTECTED> |
| 22:33.29 | romainguy | <PROTECTED> |
| 22:33.30 | jasta | i understood push e-mail to be just a really light connection that is maintained to the server, which reacts when new mail arrives |
| 22:33.57 | herriojr | romainguy: yes |
| 22:34.31 | gdsx | jasta: in "real" push, the server sends a notification packet without the device polling for it |
| 22:34.57 | gdsx | jasta: afaik, the mail itself is never actually pushed, so it's sort of a misnomer in that sense |
| 22:35.17 | herriojr | <permission android:name="com.mycompany.MYPERMISSION" android:protectionLevel="normal" android:label="com.mycompany.MYPERMISSION" /> |
| 22:35.19 | gdsx | jasta: but it does mean that the device doesn't have to poll (as long as it has some method to make sure the connection is up) |
| 22:35.23 | *** join/#android yakischloba (n=jake@c-24-17-53-6.hsd1.wa.comcast.net) |
| 22:35.39 | jasta | gdsx: i don't see the difference between IMAP IDLE and this. |
| 22:36.32 | gdsx | jasta: does the server send IDLEs to the clients? |
| 22:37.08 | *** join/#android tonyacunar (n=joseacun@c-76-16-208-53.hsd1.il.comcast.net) |
| 22:37.21 | herriojr | I still get java.lang.SecurityException: Requesting code from com.mycompany.android.plugin (with uid 10018) to be run in process androidtest.test (with uid 10017) |
| 22:37.29 | jasta | gdsx: it is a client-side command that instructs the server to leave the connection open indefinitely (permitting small keep-alives). the server will respond when a new message arrives. |
| 22:37.35 | herriojr | romainguy: is there another permission I need to include to run another app? |
| 22:37.59 | jasta | the client thus can make a connection, set it idle, and just wait indefinitely for the server to say something. the overhead involved is merely that of maintaining a TCP connection to a remote peer |
| 22:38.22 | gdsx | jasta: yeah, ok; I didn't realize it worked that way |
| 22:38.24 | jasta | i understood this to be push e-mail. |
| 22:38.30 | jasta | that basic strategy, i mean |
| 22:38.36 | gdsx | jasta: yeah |
| 22:38.44 | jasta | gdsx: http://www.faqs.org/rfcs/rfc2177.html -- look at the "Example:"... |
| 22:38.58 | gdsx | haha; not feeling like RFCs right now :o) |
| 22:39.02 | jasta | so, i ask again, does the G1's IMAP client support this? :) |
| 22:39.11 | jasta | gdsx: it's just a simple command session, it will make it obvious how it works |
| 22:39.13 | gdsx | jasta: I don't know |
| 22:39.50 | jasta | IMAP IDLE is supported by Exchange, so that would be a really quick win to support users who are forced to use Exchange mail |
| 22:39.59 | jasta | without having to do polling |
| 22:40.33 | zhobbs | polling IMAP isn't a big concern for me really.... |
| 22:40.45 | jasta | IMAP IDLE is really simple too. it's just an extra IMAP command tacked onto the protocol. |
| 22:40.51 | gdsx | zhobbs: polling costs battery |
| 22:40.53 | jasta | zhobbs: it's much worse for battery life. |
| 22:40.57 | zhobbs | yeah |
| 22:41.09 | zhobbs | I guess if it's set to do it every 5 mins that probably adds up quick |
| 22:41.30 | jasta | even 30 minutes will have a measurable impact on battery life versus IMAP IDLE with infrequently received mail |
| 22:41.32 | gdsx | zhobbs: the problem is that, without push, you have to balance battery life and mail delivery latency |
| 22:41.51 | jasta | that would be super lame for Google to skip such an obvious feature :( |
| 22:41.53 | jasta | iPhone's mail app did :( |
| 22:42.05 | jasta | IMAP IDLE is supported by like every IMAP server i've ever encountered |
| 22:42.24 | gdsx | zhobbs: so if you poll every 30 minutes, and someone sends an email right after the window starts, you wait 29 minutes rather than hearing about it when it gets there |
| 22:42.26 | jasta | hell i mean the RFC that added it was published in 1997 |
| 22:42.30 | zhobbs | I think Android's IMAP client will be open source at least |
| 22:42.50 | jasta | zhobbs: really? i would've thought not, actually |
| 22:43.49 | zhobbs | my understanding is that "google" apps won't be (gmail,youtube, maps), but android apps will be (email, alarm clock, etc) |
| 22:44.02 | zhobbs | but I could be wrong |
| 22:44.07 | jasta | zhobbs: will email and gmail actually be that different? |
| 22:44.19 | jasta | in that they are two truly separate apps? |
| 22:44.31 | wastrel | push |
| 22:44.43 | gdsx | jasta: they are two separate apps |
| 22:44.48 | jasta | interesting |
| 22:44.57 | jasta | well, that would be great if its open source then. IMAP IDLE should be a sync to add. |
| 22:45.01 | jasta | err, i meant sinch :) |
| 22:45.09 | gdsx | heh |
| 22:45.11 | wastrel | cinch |
| 22:45.16 | jasta | *whatever* |
| 22:45.27 | wastrel | we report - you decide |
| 22:47.30 | herriojr | romainguy: here's what my manifest files look like http://pastebin.ca/1218488 |
| 22:47.44 | herriojr | the first is the application being called, and the second is the calling application |
| 22:54.45 | *** join/#android Benddd (n=ben@98.223.203.144) |
| 23:09.20 | herriojr | I can't find an example at all |
| 23:14.35 | *** join/#android haavi (n=blahhah@c83-254-67-155.bredband.comhem.se) |
| 23:22.31 | herriojr | what permissions do I need to run an activity with a different uid? |
| 23:24.11 | pjv | can I cheer up somebody's day with a little Android's Fortune?: https://launchpad.net/androidsfortune/0.1.0/0.1.0 |
| 23:24.48 | herriojr | only if it tells me what permissions I need to start another app's activity :) |
| 23:24.49 | pjv | more explicitly this is a project (the well-known fortune program) I have been working on for some time |
| 23:25.07 | herriojr | have any screen shots? |
| 23:25.20 | pjv | herriojr, ehm you don't need permissions to do that afaik |
| 23:25.29 | pjv | sure just a sec |
| 23:25.54 | herriojr | I keep getting permission error when I try to display it as part of a ActivityGroup |
| 23:27.36 | herriojr | but it doesn't inform me of what permission I need |
| 23:27.39 | gdsx | herriojr: I believe the answer is "you can't" |
| 23:28.00 | gdsx | or, not without being a system process |
| 23:28.07 | gdsx | I might be completely wrong, though |
| 23:28.08 | pjv | http://launchpad.net/androidsfortune/0.1.0/0.1.0/+download/001.png |
| 23:28.24 | *** part/#android mohbana (n=mohbana@87-194-191-26.bethere.co.uk) |
| 23:28.27 | herriojr | http://code.google.com/p/android/issues/detail?id=937 |
| 23:29.17 | gdsx | herriojr: yeah, the upshot is that you can get the different bits to run under the _same_ uid |
| 23:29.42 | herriojr | can I make multiple applications have the same UID then? |
| 23:29.57 | pjv | jasta, I said I would have more information today |
| 23:30.01 | gdsx | yes, I forget exactly how, though :o) |
| 23:30.51 | gdsx | herriojr: I know it involves them being signed with the same dev key, and you have to do something in the manifest also |
| 23:31.00 | pjv | :-) |
| 23:32.52 | *** join/#android erus` (n=Tom@92.11.220.171) |
| 23:33.49 | herriojr | ok, I found that thing |
| 23:34.05 | herriojr | so how can I give third party developers the ability to sign with my dev key? |
| 23:34.51 | gdsx | herriojr: I'm not sure, but I believe the plugin thing is something we're still working out (in that you wouldn't want other folks to be able to sign with your dev key) |
| 23:34.59 | gdsx | herriojr: romainguy likely has more info |
| 23:35.13 | *** join/#android mooooo (n=Tom@92.11.220.171) |
| 23:35.50 | herriojr | maybe they can ship me their package, and I can sign it for them? |
| 23:36.08 | herriojr | so they can't just sign anything with my dev key |
| 23:36.51 | gdsx | herriojr: that's still not good |
| 23:37.08 | *** join/#android moooooo (n=Tom@92.11.220.171) |
| 23:37.20 | gdsx | herriojr: if something bad happens (bug/malicious), it's Your Problem |
| 23:37.36 | herriojr | yeah, I know, but there should be some way to allow me to include other applications' views in my application if they give me permission |
| 23:38.00 | gdsx | herriojr: again, I'm not really the person to talk to about this |
| 23:38.05 | herriojr | ok :) |
| 23:38.13 | herriojr | well, anytime romainguy wants to jump in :) |
| 23:54.25 | *** join/#android unix_infidel (n=blue@unaffiliated/unixinfidel/x-8383745) |
