| 00:09.52 | *** join/#android unix_infidel (n=blue@unaffiliated/unixinfidel/x-8383745) |
| 00:25.28 | *** join/#android poetic_folly|G5 (n=poetic_f@97.103.39.213) |
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| 00:28.19 | Disconnect | couple of random questions, for any googlers still awake... why the {} is google doing healthcare docs? (i admit, i signed up, but i've had a rough year) and why doesn't https://google.com have it's own cert? |
| 00:28.29 | Disconnect | specializes in off-topic after hours :) |
| 00:29.40 | illuminum | i hate stupid jargon buzzwords |
| 00:29.42 | illuminum | "the cloud" |
| 00:29.49 | ttuttle | == illuminum |
| 00:29.52 | illuminum | fuck the cloud it's teh intarweb |
| 00:30.43 | illuminum | i think jargon is the only language business executives speak |
| 00:30.43 | jasta | the internet is a jargon buzzword too. |
| 00:30.50 | jasta | it used to be called "a network". |
| 00:30.56 | illuminum | because they're too stupid to understand anything else |
| 00:31.15 | Disconnect | the cloud is the thinking internet. i agree tho, until it goes self-assembling its not "the cloud" |
| 00:31.34 | jasta | the "web" is probably the *worst* buzzword ever, but now even geeks use it. |
| 00:31.49 | illuminum | hey if berner's calls it the web so should we |
| 00:31.52 | jasta | because web implies something far more general than it is, and yet, it is more general than even it is defined. |
| 00:31.56 | illuminum | *berners |
| 00:32.06 | *** join/#android borism (n=boris@195-50-197-169-dsl.krw.estpak.ee) |
| 00:32.19 | Disconnect | ' != "OMG there is an S on the way !" :) |
| 00:32.56 | illuminum | we could create a new term and call it the ubernet |
| 00:33.32 | Disconnect | illuminum: reeks of 'undernet' way back when |
| 00:33.36 | jasta | honestly illuminum, i used to have that attitude about buzzwords but i eventually realized it was just my frustrated feeling of being "let behind" manifesting itself :) |
| 00:33.39 | jasta | left* |
| 00:34.02 | unix_infidel | lol @ jasta being "left behind" |
| 00:34.17 | unix_infidel | a competent developer for a cutting edge mobile platform is certainly not "left behind" |
| 00:34.29 | jasta | that's because i did something about taht feeing |
| 00:34.31 | jasta | feeling* |
| 00:34.37 | Disconnect | heh |
| 00:34.50 | yakischloba | unix_infidel: shh, it'll go straight to his head |
| 00:35.16 | jasta | but really, just a few short years ago i would have thought i would be way too stubborn to learn some new-fangled language like Java. |
| 00:35.20 | illuminum | i resent stupidity more then anything else. i'm in an accounting/business program and my peers speak ignorantly of these subjects but sprinkle buzzwords in their language to make themselves appear knowledgable to the other ignorant peers |
| 00:35.24 | Disconnect | on that topic, any recommendations for resources getting back into "real" programming and back into java now that its past 1.0? (yah well.. i like being a sysadmin. but android is screaming for some filler "core apps" until real devs come along and replace them) |
| 00:35.56 | jasta | real devs? lol. |
| 00:35.59 | illuminum | just read a tutorial and struggle with an API |
| 00:36.30 | jasta | Disconnect: I recommend anything O'Reilly. get a challenging, highly technical but general book on the language and its libraries. |
| 00:36.52 | Disconnect | last did java work in 1999, and it was unpleasant. |
| 00:37.06 | jasta | do not go for one of those ridiculous "marketable" books that tries to be witty or "easy". |
| 00:37.06 | illuminum | i don't recommend such a thing, in my experience its really hard to reference a paper book when you're on a computer |
| 00:37.11 | Disconnect | jasta: thats what i was planning actually :) |
| 00:37.34 | jasta | illuminum: nonsense. paper books are not for reference, they are for reading and digesting. |
| 00:37.38 | illuminum | just pick an API you went to develop for, read a tutorial for hello world, and fight against the API until you climb the learning curve past the inflection point |
| 00:37.39 | jasta | and they are very, very important. |
| 00:37.46 | yakischloba | I use paper books for reference all the time |
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| 00:38.09 | Disconnect | illuminum: strangely enough, thats what i'm doing with android. but programming methodology (and OOP in general) has changed a -lot- in 10 years. |
| 00:38.11 | mpardo | does android provide a scalar sqlite function |
| 00:38.13 | jasta | illuminum: is that how you learned PHP? |
| 00:38.15 | jasta | *jab* |
| 00:38.17 | Disconnect | lol |
| 00:38.27 | illuminum | well i'm probably just retarded, i can't stare downwards i'm so used to looking straight ahead at the monitor |
| 00:38.42 | *** join/#android vbabiy (n=vbabiy@pool-71-244-116-32.albyny.fios.verizon.net) |
| 00:38.50 | yakischloba | get a book stand or something |
| 00:38.58 | illuminum | yeah that's how i learned php and every other language |
| 00:38.59 | jasta | i've been down the path of just struggling "on my own" to learn things |
| 00:38.59 | unix_infidel | books are portable. you can go to a bar, get rejected by a blonde and learn about scalar functions... |
| 00:39.04 | unix_infidel | all at the same time! |
| 00:39.15 | jasta | more so than most developers, i'd say, and i'm here to tell you that it is not an effective strategy. |
| 00:39.33 | Disconnect | has yet to learn a language from a book.. but a good book provides an amazing intro to the -methodology- of a language |
| 00:39.40 | Disconnect | unix_infidel: lol |
| 00:39.46 | jasta | it's an agonizing waste of time. getting a good, thorough technical book and *reading it* is one of the better ways to learn complex topics. |
| 00:40.07 | Disconnect | tends to leap up from books mid-paragraph and go try stuff. |
| 00:40.08 | romainguy | yeah, the key part is to find a *good* book |
| 00:40.13 | Disconnect | sometimes it catches fire. thats always neat. |
| 00:40.16 | illuminum | have you taken a basic cs course? |
| 00:40.16 | romainguy | there are not that many good technical books out there :) |
| 00:40.27 | jasta | illuminum: me? |
| 00:40.31 | illuminum | no, disconnect |
| 00:40.32 | Disconnect | was pretty sure he'd bricked his dtivo at one point |
| 00:40.39 | unix_infidel | I find a lot of technical books are wordy. |
| 00:40.52 | yakischloba | and perhaps their content merits that |
| 00:40.54 | Disconnect | no fire in that one, but still. if it won't boot and you might have broken the bootloader..... |
| 00:40.54 | illuminum | yeah i feel the same way unix, i feel like i'm wasting my time |
| 00:40.58 | romainguy | or just drag on with the most basic stuff |
| 00:41.04 | romainguy | I was reading a book about Flex |
| 00:41.06 | illuminum | having an objective helps me ask the right questions |
| 00:41.15 | romainguy | it spent the first 4 or 5 chapters explaining variables and for loops |
| 00:41.16 | illuminum | and having the internet helps me get the right answers |
| 00:41.28 | Disconnect | did brick some old ipaqs. back when compaq made them -and- (left-hand/right-hand) sponsored a group that hacked linux/etc on them |
| 00:41.42 | unix_infidel | romainguy: which is why I prefer buying from authors who split up concepts into 3 100page volumes. |
| 00:41.47 | illuminum | as long as you've taken basic cs and know about object-oriented principles you're fine |
| 00:41.56 | Disconnect | romainguy: clearly that was an "intro to programming with flex" book instead of an "intro to flex for programmers" book :) |
| 00:42.15 | romainguy | Disconnect: unfortunately yes, even though the book wasn't presented as such :)) |
| 00:42.21 | Disconnect | heh |
| 00:42.41 | Disconnect | learned OOP from oreilly, and java too, so.. prolly need to get updated books now tho |
| 00:42.41 | romainguy | unix_infidel: agreed, that's also why I prefer focused books (like O'Reilly series, for instance Java I/O, Java Threads, etc.) |
| 00:43.10 | illuminum | i've got a subscription to safari which i rarely use :/ |
| 00:43.10 | Disconnect | and here's your random weird crap from another channel: http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2371/2203785937_fc2d5d7097_o.jpg (via #linpeople) |
| 00:43.19 | unix_infidel | romainguy: those are fairly advanced topics for me :-) |
| 00:43.34 | Disconnect | will wander over to borders tomorrow and see what presents itself |
| 00:43.50 | romainguy | Disconnect: go buy my book :) |
| 00:43.58 | Disconnect | which one? |
| 00:44.02 | romainguy | the royalties have been pretty disappointing lately ^^ |
| 00:44.12 | fadden | "ListView for Dummies" ? |
| 00:44.15 | yakischloba | I'm disappointed at how the level of conversation in this channel has degraded to small talk :( |
| 00:44.19 | romainguy | Filthy Rich Clients |
| 00:44.32 | romainguy | yakischloba: that unfortunately happens a lot with human beings |
| 00:44.47 | Disconnect | esp in the evening, when nobody is proposing on-topic discussion topics |
| 00:44.49 | yakischloba | romainguy: it was kept up for a long time |
| 00:44.52 | romainguy | fadden: that's a good idea, "Taming ListView" |
| 00:44.53 | Disconnect | its called "social bonding" |
| 00:45.09 | Disconnect | romainguy: you aren't the apress android author are you? |
| 00:45.15 | romainguy | no I'm not |
| 00:45.31 | romainguy | I work on the Android team, along with fadden for instance |
| 00:45.39 | yakischloba | romainguy: I'm disappointed that I haven't been able to contribute with relevant conversation but I certainly enjoyed and learned a lot from the higher level discussion while it lasted |
| 00:45.43 | Disconnect | ah ok. |
| 00:46.09 | Disconnect | fwiw all day its been way more on-topic than most channels manage. |
| 00:46.44 | yakischloba | yeah, but 99% of channels usually aren't even worth looking at so that its not saying much. |
| 00:46.53 | unix_infidel | Before September 23rd this chan was fairly inactive. |
| 00:47.01 | yakischloba | and happily so |
| 00:47.01 | yakischloba | ;) |
| 00:47.34 | yakischloba | I could count on that I would probably learn something every time I looked at what had been said |
| 00:47.44 | Disconnect | looked around - #linpeople is random (standard), #tivo is dead (standardish), #handhelds is mostly dead (std), #maemo is on battery selection - liion vs etc).. we're not doing bad to be close to the topic at hand. |
| 00:47.50 | yakischloba | instead of seeing people asking if they can run their SNES roms on the g1 and stupid shit |
| 00:48.01 | Disconnect | lol |
| 00:48.23 | fadden | You *can* run your SNES ROMs. You just need this special cable. |
| 00:48.31 | fadden | I'll sell it to you for US$500K. |
| 00:48.35 | Disconnect | fadden: does it have a plug at one end for 220V? |
| 00:48.43 | Disconnect | cuz thats the best kind of special cable |
| 00:48.55 | fadden | It has a plug at one end for a SNES. |
| 00:49.34 | fadden | If you're really nice I'll throw in an XBAND. :-) |
| 00:50.21 | Disconnect | oh and #puppet is on-topic 100% |
| 00:50.31 | Disconnect | missed the other window hiding in the corner |
| 00:50.48 | unix_infidel | hopes for a decent reader (pdf, doc, odf, etc) |
| 00:51.53 | Disconnect | i'm actually expecting someone to go the mobipocket route (with drm) .. it might take a while but there is some money to be made there |
| 00:52.20 | illuminum | what's mobipocket |
| 00:52.58 | illuminum | hey what does google do if opensource apps that purposefully bypass drm get on market and rate highly among users |
| 00:53.11 | Disconnect | in short, the most popular ebook format out there. (literally 100,000s of actual in-copyright modern books) |
| 00:53.14 | illuminum | i imagine that could be a pandoras box that dooms android to failure the moment google caves and takes action |
| 00:53.36 | Disconnect | has an eink ebook reader |
| 00:54.56 | Disconnect | some (smarter) publishers (ahem baen) are going drm-free (including straight pdf format) but a lot still want some basic drm. to get the algo you need to contract, and once you do that you get each device an ID (already got an IMEI->id algo) and the download server crypts the book to that id (and up to - iirc - 4 others) |
| 00:55.07 | illuminum | what package/class should i be looking at for consuming xml feeds |
| 00:55.13 | Disconnect | it does allow for time-limited lending libraries too, which is kinda neat |
| 00:55.27 | illuminum | drm isn't neat its stupid |
| 00:55.42 | illuminum | it's just backwards technology that does the opposite of adding value |
| 00:56.19 | Disconnect | so explain an ebook lending (LENDING) library to me that doesn't use drm... |
| 00:57.39 | illuminum | no such thing imo, once the data has manifested itself on the users device it has essentially created a clone of itself. it's not like a physical object that exists in one place at one time. |
| 00:57.59 | Disconnect | ...right. so drm in this case gives you -more- capabilities (loaning) |
| 00:58.03 | illuminum | the fundamentals are different and until the powers that be realize that and come up with appropriate business models they'll just inevitably fail |
| 00:58.40 | *** join/#android romainguy (n=gfx@69.36.227.135) |
| 00:58.52 | Disconnect | ....cuz the dvd manufacturers are hurting so much right now. (or even ebooks - baen sales went -up- when they comitted to releasing most of their catalog in electronic formats) |
| 00:58.57 | illuminum | anyone know what package/class I should look to for consuming feeds or sending http requests e.g. REST? |
| 00:59.09 | wastrel | drm is bad |
| 00:59.32 | wastrel | pdf is a shitty format for ebooks tho |
| 00:59.50 | illuminum | i like utf8, thats the best ebook format :) |
| 01:00.00 | Disconnect | is not surprised to find the authors here silent on the topic |
| 01:00.01 | wastrel | mobipocket is bad ugh |
| 01:00.17 | wastrel | i bought a mobipocket book for palm |
| 01:00.22 | gdsx | wastrel: DRM isn't always bad |
| 01:00.26 | Disconnect | go to work and tell them to keep your paycheck, you'll work for donations.. then talk about drm being nothing but evil |
| 01:00.27 | wastrel | no, it's always bad |
| 01:00.41 | gdsx | wastrel: so, let's say I've got a part design drawn up in Autocad |
| 01:01.02 | illuminum | disconnect while we're at it let's tell them to stifle innovation and keep the proprietary software hoarders in business because we don't want to disrupt coders jobs |
| 01:01.03 | gdsx | wastrel: and I want to send that design to be manufactured, but I don't want the manufacturer to be able to inadvertently give the design to my competitor |
| 01:01.07 | gdsx | wastrel: what do I do? |
| 01:01.26 | illuminum | that's crap. the industry needs to change to fit IT. IT doesn't need to change to fit deprecated business models. |
| 01:01.31 | illuminum | and IT won't change. |
| 01:01.35 | illuminum | it's a matter of fact |
| 01:01.37 | jasta | back :) |
| 01:01.38 | illuminum | face reality |
| 01:01.53 | unix_infidel | gdsx: well the easy way out would've been to say if DRM increases accesibility of the content (with viable competitors in the marketplace) then it's not such a bad thing. |
| 01:01.58 | Disconnect | he's so cute. i remember being in school too... |
| 01:02.19 | jasta | hehe |
| 01:02.20 | wastrel | i dunno what do you do? |
| 01:02.28 | gdsx | wastrel: rights management |
| 01:02.34 | jasta | back to hacking on Five |
| 01:02.35 | wastrel | i bought a mobipocket book - based on rave reviews of the title |
| 01:02.41 | wastrel | and had to install their shitty reader |
| 01:02.50 | jasta | hoping to push out some more proof of concept code tonight for testing on real devices ;0 |
| 01:02.53 | wastrel | which is slow, user unfriendly and eats battery |
| 01:02.57 | gdsx | wastrel: I'm not saying that it's always good. Far from it. It's just not always bad |
| 01:03.05 | Disconnect | jasta: can you push me a real device? i'm a good betatester :) |
| 01:03.07 | wastrel | and the publisher had locked the justification setting on - overrriding user preferences |
| 01:03.18 | wastrel | so the words were spaced out really weird |
| 01:03.20 | jasta | Disconnect: i don't have one, it's just that googlers seem to have been given the green light to be helpful :) |
| 01:03.24 | wastrel | on the pda screen |
| 01:03.27 | Disconnect | lol |
| 01:03.27 | jasta | also, the ADC winners have them |
| 01:03.32 | wastrel | it was a shitty product |
| 01:03.35 | jasta | so the cats outta the bag |
| 01:03.43 | Disconnect | push me a google job offer? :) |
| 01:03.46 | *** join/#android mpardo (n=chatzill@24.11.161.146) |
| 01:03.50 | wastrel | so i downloaded the drm-free version from a fileserver |
| 01:04.02 | jasta | Disconnect: participate in the second ADC then. |
| 01:04.02 | romainguy | Disconnect: send your resume :p |
| 01:04.05 | wastrel | the pirates provide a better product |
| 01:04.13 | gdsx | wastrel: if you're trying to convince me of something, you're preaching to the choir |
| 01:04.19 | romainguy | wastrel: well I've seen the contrary |
| 01:04.19 | jasta | it's no mystery that google hires right out of these challenges that they do |
| 01:04.24 | wastrel | that's specifically about mobipocket :] |
| 01:04.25 | romainguy | for instance with my Sony ebook reader |
| 01:04.26 | Disconnect | romainguy: unfortunately i'm a fan of washdc |
| 01:04.32 | Disconnect | its where all my stuff is, for one |
| 01:04.34 | illuminum | web services web services can someone link me or tell me what package or class to use--this is android related |
| 01:04.36 | romainguy | the windows tool is annoying to me because I use a mac |
| 01:04.56 | romainguy | but the non-official tools suck :) |
| 01:04.59 | jasta | Google Summer of Code, for instance, is an impressively smart HR tactic :) |
| 01:05.00 | Disconnect | bought a cybook rather than sony cuz .. ummm.. the sony kinda sucked :) |
| 01:05.22 | romainguy | Disconnect: depends what you're looking for :) |
| 01:05.26 | Disconnect | windows tools, -severely- limited formats, etc. |
| 01:05.38 | Disconnect | cybook even had the newer eink revision |
| 01:05.41 | romainguy | bah :) |
| 01:05.44 | Disconnect | i can turn pages in under 5 seconds :) |
| 01:06.04 | Disconnect | messed with a sony reader - cybook can't read while charging (sighhhh) but otherwise.. |
| 01:06.20 | romainguy | again depends what you're looking for |
| 01:06.30 | romainguy | I don't give a shit about the format it can read |
| 01:06.43 | Disconnect | i literally could not get a solid page-flip out of the sony, even on the user's guide. it would hang up long enough that i'd hit it again, then it'd flip (eventually) 2 pages or more. or it'd not read the push and i'd just sit there, looking bored. |
| 01:06.45 | romainguy | but I care about the device being small and light ^^ |
| 01:07.00 | romainguy | Disconnect: weird, I didn't have this issue on mine |
| 01:07.02 | Disconnect | ...go compare cybook to sony. its -way- thinner and lighter actually :) |
| 01:07.08 | romainguy | but I have the second version |
| 01:07.20 | Disconnect | ('long enough' might have been anywhere from 1-2 seconds) |
| 01:07.44 | romainguy | thinner? |
| 01:08.41 | Disconnect | yep |
| 01:08.53 | romainguy | errr |
| 01:08.57 | Disconnect | found a great side by side comparison but its an expired/camped domain :( |
| 01:09.35 | Disconnect | 13mm thick vs 8.5 |
| 01:09.38 | Disconnect | its thinner |
| 01:09.41 | Disconnect | (cybook is) |
| 01:09.43 | Disconnect | http://bookeen.com/specs/ebook-hardware.aspx |
| 01:09.48 | wastrel | ebook readers are still too small |
| 01:10.04 | romainguy | Disconnect: are you comparing with the first reader? |
| 01:10.09 | wastrel | i read novels on my palm pda - i want something bigger for technical docs and pdf |
| 01:10.13 | romainguy | because mine is 0.3" thick |
| 01:10.17 | romainguy | exactly the same as the cybook |
| 01:10.32 | Disconnect | oooh might be, looking at the url |
| 01:10.38 | Disconnect | 505 is newer? |
| 01:10.44 | romainguy | yes |
| 01:10.53 | romainguy | the cybook is a tad lighter though |
| 01:10.58 | Disconnect | ok sony is 1mm thinner |
| 01:11.00 | romainguy | although I doubt I could feel the difference |
| 01:11.07 | romainguy | anyway |
| 01:11.17 | romainguy | the cybook looks like a book reader I would have bought too :) |
| 01:11.23 | Disconnect | cybook feels like a plastic prop :) but eink screens (on all readers) are too fragile still :( |
| 01:11.45 | romainguy | I would love to have the Kindle's features in my Sony :) |
| 01:12.38 | Disconnect | i'm a fan of being able to read books that don't come off the sony management approved list ;) |
| 01:13.03 | romainguy | as long as I can get enough novels to keep me busy, I couldn't care less :)) |
| 01:13.36 | jasta | im unusually old fashioned on books. i guess i just like conceptually having a real book :) |
| 01:13.37 | Disconnect | i -really- wanted to like the kindle.. but omg.. handle one sometime, its a fischer-price disaster.. |
| 01:13.47 | romainguy | jasta: I actually prefer real books by far |
| 01:13.50 | Disconnect | jasta: i tend to do both for books i -really- like |
| 01:13.53 | *** join/#android mypapit (n=mypapit@pdpc/supporter/active/mypapit) |
| 01:14.04 | romainguy | jasta: *but* they're annoying on a 14 hours plane ride to France for instance :) |
| 01:14.08 | Disconnect | but the cybook (or sony :) ..) is way way more useful on metro, for example |
| 01:14.08 | Disconnect | heh |
| 01:14.17 | romainguy | I actually happily mix ebooks, audiobooks and real books |
| 01:14.29 | jasta | romainguy: i nearly lost it on my flight to Ireland :) |
| 01:14.36 | jasta | i don't handle confined spaces like that well |
| 01:14.40 | Disconnect | is annoyed - 3" anthology only came in ebook twice. |
| 01:14.45 | romainguy | for instance one of my biggest frustrations is that I left my 1000+ books collection in France )) |
| 01:14.47 | Disconnect | nintendo ds and mario |
| 01:14.47 | jasta | i start really losing it about the last 2 hours or so |
| 01:14.56 | Disconnect | or lots of booze and coffee |
| 01:15.27 | jasta | i was surprised to find that Delta's in-seat entertainment thing had good music on it though |
| 01:15.39 | Disconnect | was a smoker on an 8.5 hour flight to hawaii a few years back, that sucked. at least it was first class (not my fault, back when twa existed i was consulting on changable tickets.. if you kept the original flight you got upgraded) |
| 01:15.51 | jasta | Flogging Molly, Arctic Monkeys, Cold War Kids, Arcade Fire...who'd have known? |
| 01:15.56 | Disconnect | nice |
| 01:16.40 | jasta | and they had an episode of The Office |
| 01:17.00 | unix_infidel | jasta: you know something's wrong when content is cheaper than booze. |
| 01:17.01 | romainguy | jasta: Air France and Virgin are honestly the best to go to Europe |
| 01:17.02 | jasta | the only reason i don't just completely melt down is that i have my gf with me tho |
| 01:17.13 | jasta | romainguy: the Delta flight we had was operated by Air France |
| 01:17.33 | romainguy | here you go :) |
| 01:17.33 | jasta | unix_infidel: on Alaskan Airlines (which i use often for short flights) you get free beer |
| 01:17.46 | jasta | and they are really generous with it. you can sometimes get full bottles |
| 01:17.59 | jasta | but you have to flirt a little :) |
| 01:18.05 | jasta | (read: just be nice) |
| 01:18.59 | jasta | and it's good beer too. they have microbrews from WA, OR, and CA. |
| 01:19.17 | jasta | which are of course the 3 best states for microbrews in all of the US :) |
| 01:19.26 | *** join/#android schmylan (n=schmylan@ppp-70-251-70-86.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net) |
| 01:23.55 | unix_infidel | jasta: dem is fightin words. |
| 01:25.57 | jasta | bring it on :) |
| 01:26.16 | jasta | the pacific northwest in particular is very good at Amber beers, which i love. |
| 01:26.36 | jasta | i couldn't even stomach beer until i had Mac & Jack's, and even still i really don't like that much variety |
| 01:26.42 | jasta | but ambers are delicious ;) |
| 01:30.27 | jasta | what the hell is the AndroidHttpClient? |
| 01:33.26 | jasta | it's undocumented...hmmm |
| 01:36.12 | jasta | pawalls: yo, you gonna be around later tonight? |
| 01:43.19 | huxu | ive been running through tutorials and searching the samples, and as im building my dream app i have one question... lets say i have a list of "Item 1, Item 2, Item3" i am at the point of then wanting to call on different activities after those items are clicked, such as clicking on Item 1 will then go to a ListActivity to list out contacts.... how would this be done? |
| 01:47.05 | Disconnect | jasta: 1 word: duclaw.com |
| 01:47.28 | jasta | huxu: through startActivity and Intents. |
| 01:47.39 | jasta | Intents are a very powerful general concept in Android, go read about them before proceeding :) |
| 01:48.10 | huxu | ok i did look at them a little bit, but i dont understand how i would do an intent to an activity i create |
| 01:48.40 | jasta | well, youc an hardcode a particular class to load, although that's not always the best approach |
| 01:48.55 | jasta | for your simple app, sure, just acll new Intent(this, Foo.class) |
| 01:49.12 | jasta | but if you get time, return to intent filters and learn about how it all works |
| 01:49.16 | ttuttle | jasta: Well, it's better to hardcode it within an app, for speed. |
| 01:49.32 | jasta | sometimes it's more appropriate, and sometimes it isn't. |
| 01:50.51 | huxu | thank you!! |
| 01:51.18 | gambler | huxu IntentReceiver is BroadcastReceiver now...beware some of the doco on the net is out of date |
| 01:51.52 | huxu | o ok thanks! |
| 01:55.00 | huxu | what are the return values of position? in onListItemClick? |
| 01:55.52 | huxu | is it simple 0, 1, 2 for Item 1, Item 2, Item 3 going from top to bottom? |
| 01:56.05 | f00f- | yeah |
| 01:56.08 | f00f- | position from top |
| 01:56.12 | jasta | they refer to the adapter's position. |
| 01:56.37 | f00f- | well, right |
| 01:56.41 | f00f- | gotta think in abstract terms :) |
| 01:56.50 | jasta | yes, and you really should. |
| 01:57.18 | jasta | huxu: Lists are enormously complex in Android because of two huge optimizations Android does for you. So it's important to understand the general abstractions that android is forcing you to use. |
| 01:57.43 | huxu | ok |
| 01:57.51 | jasta | most notably, the concept of an adapter to the list. the list is an inherent UI component and does not observe your data's paradigms. the adapter does, however. |
| 01:58.07 | jasta | so it's important to think of your data always in terms of the adapter and never in terms of the listview |
| 01:59.22 | jasta | those two huge optimizatins i mentioned are that ListView's "recycle" views so that it is not allocating new views when scrolling around, and also that it does not operate on the entire list, merely the portion of which that can be displayed on screen |
| 02:00.20 | f00f- | the ViewHolder concept! i love it. |
| 02:00.23 | jasta | the adapter is a way to adapt your list data to this model, so everything ultimately relates back to it. |
| 02:01.19 | huxu | ok, so if im doing this Cursor c = (Cursor) mAdapter.getItem(position) what will c be?! |
| 02:01.37 | jasta | uhh. |
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| 02:02.09 | jasta | why would your list items be cursors? |
| 02:03.05 | huxu | i dunno... i was trying to follow the youtube video where Dan Morrill shows how to build a calling application but trying to modify it with other code |
| 02:03.26 | jasta | don't follow that video, it's way too old |
| 02:03.39 | huxu | ok |
| 02:03.40 | jasta | look at the ApiDemos to get an idea, but really just pay attention to this concept of the adapter |
| 02:03.48 | jasta | it will burn you bad if you ignore the complexity here |
| 02:03.55 | huxu | ok |
| 02:04.43 | jasta | but to answer your question more succinctly, the position given in onItemClick is the adapter's position, such that adapter.getItem(n) will yield your nth list item's data. |
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| 02:05.25 | huxu | starting from 1 or 0 |
| 02:05.33 | jasta | starting from 0 of course |
| 02:05.40 | huxu | just checkiin |
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| 02:07.28 | f00f- | jdbc starts at 1, everything else in java.util is 0-offset iirc |
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| 02:27.20 | ttuttle | SanMehat: /me just built a 4G RAID0 out of 4 1G USB sticks. |
| 02:29.09 | f00f- | oh no |
| 02:29.12 | f00f- | you got that deal from woot? |
| 02:29.41 | Disconnect | ttuttle: you should hang out with nn. he's doing crazy crap like that too, on creepy crippled embedded platforms |
| 02:29.51 | ttuttle | f00f-: Nah, VMware was giving them out at an info session. |
| 02:30.41 | umdk1d3 | ooh 4gb ssd-like raid0 |
| 02:30.43 | SanMehat | ttuttle: can your USB controller run all the ports at full speed ? |
| 02:31.03 | ttuttle | SanMehat: Not sure, but likely they can't all 4 saturate it anyway. |
| 02:31.06 | SanMehat | ttuttle: crazyass :) |
| 02:31.09 | ttuttle | SanMehat: I'll test the bandwidth later. |
| 02:35.24 | BBHoss | ttuttle: wow, one drive offline and you lose everything |
| 02:35.47 | ttuttle | BBHoss: I'm only storing my Portage tree on it, so it's just an rsync away if it breaks. |
| 02:35.54 | BBHoss | heh, ok then |
| 02:36.15 | BBHoss | i just setup a raid-3 software with Freebsd for my friend to store video on |
| 02:36.22 | ttuttle | RAID-*3*? |
| 02:36.24 | BBHoss | 3 750GB |
| 02:36.28 | ttuttle | Oh. |
| 02:36.33 | ttuttle | RAID-n does not mean RAID with n disks. |
| 02:36.41 | BBHoss | right |
| 02:37.09 | BBHoss | 2 drives store data and are striped, while the third drive stores parity for rebuilding |
| 02:37.27 | jasta | that's RAID5 |
| 02:37.29 | f00f- | RAID-5 |
| 02:37.49 | jasta | BBHoss: the raid levels do not indicate how many disks are involved. |
| 02:37.53 | f00f- | isn't RAID-10 just another parity drive? |
| 02:37.55 | BBHoss | its different somehow, some minor detail |
| 02:37.58 | jasta | or rather, they do not correspond to that :) |
| 02:37.58 | f00f- | compare to 5 |
| 02:38.07 | BBHoss | maybe 3 is parity is spread across all three |
| 02:38.50 | BBHoss | raid5 is distribted parity with raid 3 parity is stored on a single disk |
| 02:39.23 | ttuttle | Nonono |
| 02:39.33 | ttuttle | RAID-10 is RAID0 across RAID1 (or vice-versa, I forget). |
| 02:40.16 | BBHoss | nested raid-0 inside of raid-1s basically |
| 02:45.01 | jasta | the topic reminds me of the smashing pumpkin's song "Behold! The Nightmare" ;) |
| 02:46.02 | umdk1d3 | ttuttle: is the portage /tmp used during emerges on those drives too? |
| 02:46.28 | umdk1d3 | ive heard alot of ppl talk about mounting a ramdisk and redirecting portage tmp |
| 02:46.36 | f00f- | i keep /tmp in a ramdisk always |
| 02:46.39 | f00f- | on all my boxes |
| 02:46.44 | umdk1d3 | :) |
| 02:46.46 | f00f- | you can also set gcc to use -pipe so no temp files |
| 02:47.15 | umdk1d3 | would -pipe work with large compiles though? |
| 02:47.44 | umdk1d3 | looks like it does |
| 02:47.48 | umdk1d3 | its recommended in the gentoo guide |
| 02:48.18 | umdk1d3 | oh lol i guess im already using it in my make.conf |
| 02:48.34 | f00f- | yes make.conf |
| 02:48.36 | f00f- | that's where i learned it |
| 02:48.40 | ttuttle | umdk1d3: Nah, it's just disk. |
| 02:48.57 | umdk1d3 | oh that was why |
| 02:49.10 | umdk1d3 | the tmp that stores the unpacked tarball during compile |
| 02:49.11 | ttuttle | I keep /tmp/ram in a ramdisk. |
| 02:49.32 | ttuttle | I also have 2G RAM, so it may write to disk, but it doesn't usually need to read. |
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| 02:50.07 | umdk1d3 | ive had a nasty leak in my xorg for the past 3 months that takes about a week to use up my 2gb ram |
| 02:50.31 | umdk1d3 | i think it was related to nvidia drivers |
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| 03:11.27 | *** mode/#android [+o morrildl] by ChanServ |
| 03:12.15 | morrildl | ahh much better |
| 03:12.21 | morrildl | high contrast dark motif ftw |
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| 03:20.21 | rwhitby | morrildl: when is this phone going to be released? http://www.techchee.com/tmp/Google%20Android%20Prototype%20181207.jpg |
| 03:24.33 | morrildl | rwhitby: what, the device? |
| 03:24.55 | morrildl | rwhitby: that device is a very early prototype that we used to develop the software framework |
| 03:25.04 | rwhitby | where can I buy one? ;-) |
| 03:25.17 | rwhitby | it's my favourite form factor for a phone |
| 03:25.42 | morrildl | rwhitby: we called that thing the Sooner. It's not goign to be productized |
| 03:26.15 | rwhitby | hmm - not a good name for googling :-) |
| 03:26.26 | morrildl | There is a significant contingent we refer to as the "Sooner Appreciation Society" that mourns its demise |
| 03:26.28 | illuminum | i'd like a motorola razer that flips out into two identical touchscreens |
| 03:26.32 | morrildl | but it is indeed defunct |
| 03:26.48 | morrildl | I am a member of the society so I feel your pain. :) |
| 03:27.19 | rwhitby | morrildl: I'm hoping another OHA member will productise a device in the same form factor. Then I might be able to wean myself off my Treo650. |
| 03:27.59 | morrildl | rwhitby: Indeed, another Alliance member might do so, who knows |
| 03:28.12 | morrildl | ...or, once source drops, even some other manufacturer who is not a member of the Alliance |
| 03:28.40 | morrildl | but that particular device was really not even a prototype, it was just development hardware |
| 03:29.33 | rwhitby | I'm getting a second development Treo650, just in case when the source drops there is a chance to run on that. |
| 03:29.57 | morrildl | rwhitby: I know nothing of the specs of the Treos so I couldn't say |
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| 03:31.24 | wastrel | are treo's arm? |
| 03:31.31 | wastrel | i have a t|x |
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| 03:32.49 | wastrel | i hate that small square screen |
| 03:32.57 | wastrel | lurving the g1 |
| 03:33.19 | morrildl | wastrel: the G1 is extremely nice to use. |
| 03:33.24 | rwhitby | morrildl: PXA270, 32M DoC rom, 32MB ram, 320x320 screen, BCM2132 baseband. |
| 03:33.27 | morrildl | wastrel: I won't argue that it's "pretty" |
| 03:33.38 | morrildl | rwhitby: that is probably insufficient RAM |
| 03:33.44 | morrildl | at least, for the whole UI |
| 03:33.55 | morrildl | OTOH the screen is smaller which will help I guess |
| 03:34.28 | rwhitby | morrildl: so does the G1 go down well with the S.A.S ? |
| 03:34.46 | morrildl | rwhitby: I don't really know what you mean |
| 03:34.50 | morrildl | do you mean software as a service? |
| 03:34.54 | rwhitby | (Sooner Appreciation Society) |
| 03:34.57 | morrildl | ahhh |
| 03:35.07 | wastrel | i don't care about pretty i care about screen real estate |
| 03:35.12 | wastrel | and the bigass keyboard doesn't hurt |
| 03:35.32 | rwhitby | i.e. is it a worthy successor to the Sooner? |
| 03:35.38 | morrildl | rwhitby: it plays well, although many of us still long for the Sooner anyway |
| 03:35.42 | morrildl | functionally yes |
| 03:36.09 | wastrel | well i'm ditching palm after close to 10 years |
| 03:36.26 | wastrel | oy really 10 years i am old |
| 03:36.45 | rwhitby | wastrel: over 10 years here ... |
| 03:37.00 | rwhitby | and the Treo650 is still going strong. |
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| 03:37.33 | morrildl | but even though I love teh Sooner I have to admit the G1 is a lot more usable really |
| 03:38.14 | rwhitby | morrildl: which phone do you carry? |
| 03:38.23 | morrildl | rwhitby: G1 |
| 03:40.08 | wastrel | so did sergey actually throw the phone at the launch event? |
| 03:40.14 | wastrel | or just talk about the app |
| 03:40.21 | morrildl | wastrel: I don't know I was downstairs :P |
| 03:40.28 | morrildl | no one told me they were coming so I missed the whole thing |
| 03:40.36 | morrildl | I came up like 30 seconds after they took off |
| 03:40.53 | wastrel | maybe if you'd been wearing roller blades you could have caught them |
| 03:41.09 | morrildl | wastrel: I can't rollerblade, I would just end up dead |
| 03:41.19 | benley | can't keep up with larry on rollerblades |
| 03:41.50 | wastrel | i've never rollerbladed but i can ice skate |
| 03:41.54 | benley | (well, as of 3 years ago) |
| 03:42.22 | benley | morrildl: did I miss something, can you run modern stuff on the sooner again? |
| 03:42.45 | morrildl | benley: nope, the Sooner is over. |
| 03:42.51 | morrildl | woefully out of date |
| 03:42.57 | plusminus_ | did the get destroyed ? |
| 03:43.10 | morrildl | more accurately the UI as designed for the G1 does not work on the Sooner. |
| 03:43.18 | plusminus_ | or did you put it to a private showcase ? |
| 03:43.40 | benley | I've got a sooner in a box somewhere. |
| 03:43.40 | morrildl | plusminus_: I don't know what happened to them, actually |
| 03:43.50 | plusminus_ | It would be so geekish to have one ^^ |
| 03:43.53 | plusminus_ | hm ok |
| 03:43.59 | benley | afaik they remain in the hands of whoever had them when the software left them behind. |
| 03:45.16 | plusminus_ | I'd buy one, even if just m3 works on it ^^ |
| 03:45.59 | benley | heh. you can even run m4 :) |
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| 03:46.28 | plusminus_ | m4 was never public ... :( |
| 03:46.37 | plusminus_ | did it have the same UI ? |
| 03:46.52 | morrildl | plusminus_: not really |
| 03:47.07 | morrildl | imagine a UI halfway between M3 and M5 and you have M4 :) |
| 03:47.08 | plusminus_ | so really sth between m3 and m5 |
| 03:47.09 | benley | m4 had the "home sweet home" ui |
| 03:47.12 | plusminus_ | ^^ |
| 03:47.20 | benley | (I think) |
| 03:47.24 | plusminus_ | I'd love to see a screenshot of that |
| 03:47.26 | morrildl | benley: home sweet home is the M5 Home |
| 03:47.31 | benley | oh, hm |
| 03:47.37 | morrildl | plusminus_: no you wouldn't |
| 03:47.43 | plusminus_ | lol |
| 03:47.47 | morrildl | there are reasons why M4 was never public :) |
| 03:47.51 | morrildl | that's all I'm going to say |
| 03:48.00 | plusminus_ | ok, I understand ;) |
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| 03:48.26 | wastrel | i'm watching dan morrill's tutorial video |
| 03:48.40 | morrildl | wastrel: then you know why I can't rollerblade |
| 03:48.55 | morrildl | we need to update that thing actually |
| 03:49.04 | wastrel | doh i didn't realize |
| 03:49.08 | wastrel | i'm bad at ircnicks |
| 03:49.13 | wastrel | hi dan i like your video :] |
| 03:49.18 | morrildl | wastrel: :) |
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| 03:51.44 | morrildl | We spent probably 6 hours on that 7 minute video |
| 03:51.53 | morrildl | video is HARD |
| 03:52.17 | benley | let's go shopping |
| 03:52.29 | morrildl | benley: hahaahhaha |
| 03:52.33 | morrildl | indeed |
| 03:52.45 | wastrel | it's 8 minutes really |
| 03:52.51 | wastrel | my wife is doing video at her job latel |
| 03:52.57 | muthu_ | where's the video link? |
| 03:53.00 | wastrel | y. took all day yesterday |
| 03:53.07 | wastrel | for yeah, something like 10 min |
| 03:53.10 | wastrel | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I6ObTqIiYfE&feature=PlayList&p=586D322B5E2764CF&index=1 |
| 03:53.40 | muthu_ | thx |
| 03:53.43 | plusminus_ | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I6ObTqIiYfE |
| 03:53.44 | plusminus_ | argh |
| 03:53.51 | wastrel | lots of videos at android.com |
| 03:53.56 | morrildl | I think we still have the source shots |
| 03:53.59 | plusminus_ | yeah I like them |
| 03:54.09 | plusminus_ | some things I didn't know up to now ^^ |
| 03:54.09 | morrildl | so hypothetically I would just need to record the screencast portions again |
| 03:54.23 | morrildl | but honestly I think we'd be better off just doing a new one |
| 03:54.35 | morrildl | yeah I love those videos |
| 03:55.31 | plusminus_ | morrildl: I'm just seeing your video and seezing my Android-shirt I'm wearing :) |
| 03:56.01 | plusminus_ | the roid is cult |
| 03:56.03 | plusminus_ | droid |
| 03:56.26 | plusminus_ | to be honest, I pray to it every evening ;) |
| 03:56.35 | wastrel | i snagged a java book from work... covers java 2 |
| 03:58.00 | illuminum | I keep getting "unknown errors" attempting to open up http connections :( unhelpful errors make illuminum cry |
| 03:59.12 | ahaberlach | Do you have the network permission? |
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| 03:59.26 | morrildl | ahaberlach: O HAI |
| 03:59.32 | illuminum | i dunno, mebbes--i tought i setup dmz on this dhcp ip |
| 03:59.42 | illuminum | plus i'm not attempting xss, just standard http reqs |
| 03:59.43 | ahaberlach | I SEEZ JOO! |
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| 04:00.59 | benley | sleeps |
| 04:01.45 | _avatar | illuminum: to access the network your app needs a permission in AndroidManifest.xml, e.g. <uses-permission android:name="android.permission.INTERNET" /> |
| 04:02.15 | illuminum | oi thats helpful, where'd you read that bit (/me looks in the sdk) |
| 04:02.36 | morrildl | illuminum: it'll be in the release notes |
| 04:02.39 | unix_infidel | illuminum: it's one of the first things taught, I think it first gets mentioned in the notepad tutorial. |
| 04:02.47 | muthu_ | ha, nov 2007 |
| 04:02.51 | morrildl | that too :) |
| 04:03.03 | illuminum | don't recall seeing it in the notepad tutorial |
| 04:03.03 | muthu_ | pretty old.. but dan is sooo excited |
| 04:03.12 | _avatar | hey dan, long time no talk. how have you been? (this is casey from a2z) |
| 04:03.19 | morrildl | muthu_: dude that was like the 10th take |
| 04:03.19 | unix_infidel | illuminum: permissions are mentioned there. |
| 04:03.28 | muthu_ | morrildl: lol |
| 04:03.38 | morrildl | _avatar: !! |
| 04:03.43 | morrildl | _avatar: hello there |
| 04:03.51 | _avatar | hey ;) |
| 04:04.03 | unix_infidel | lol @ 10th take. I bet that was a productive use of an afternoon. |
| 04:04.03 | wastrel | i should do the notepad tutorial |
| 04:04.25 | morrildl | If any of you heard of the Amazon MP3 client app that is shipping with the G1, _avatar is the engineer responsible |
| 04:04.38 | illuminum | is that right avatar? |
| 04:04.48 | illuminum | :o |
| 04:04.52 | ahaberlach | Cool! |
| 04:05.03 | morrildl | I love that app |
| 04:05.03 | wastrel | interesting |
| 04:05.15 | _avatar | :) thanks |
| 04:05.20 | unix_infidel | rock on! |
| 04:05.30 | ahaberlach | If anyone finds any bugs, I was the engineering who was irresponsible. :) |
| 04:05.31 | unix_infidel | now, can you engineer a 3.5mm jack? |
| 04:05.38 | morrildl | My own contribution was that I think I was the very first person to buy anything using it ;) |
| 04:05.52 | unix_infidel | ;-) |
| 04:05.52 | morrildl | unix_infidel: ask HTC, it's their device :) |
| 04:06.40 | plusminus_ | just 20 days left guys :( |
| 04:06.58 | f00f- | great, i'm taking names :) |
| 04:07.04 | PoohbaLT | lol... is this really a countdown? |
| 04:07.20 | PoohbaLT | like its Y2K ... hahahaha |
| 04:07.40 | plusminus_ | I have a calendar and I'm striking through the days.... 21... 20... |
| 04:07.42 | muthu_ | shit, my ubuntu is effed up |
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| 04:07.45 | plusminus_ | just kidding |
| 04:08.00 | wastrel | ubuntu has been annoying me lately |
| 04:08.09 | muthu_ | switched from fedora 9 |
| 04:08.13 | muthu_ | now its been a mess |
| 04:08.14 | morrildl | I wish Ubuntu used RPM, then it would be perfect |
| 04:08.34 | wastrel | heresy |
| 04:09.13 | f00f- | i don't think i've ever heard anyone say they like RPM, until now! |
| 04:10.15 | snadge | the problem with ubuntu is.. 90% of the world needs to use it |
| 04:10.22 | snadge | for that development method to be truly successful |
| 04:10.27 | snadge | its too far ahead of its time :p |
| 04:10.56 | snadge | theres not enough oversight of the development |
| 04:11.03 | f00f- | huh? |
| 04:11.04 | snadge | not enough testing, bug reporting and fixing |
| 04:11.05 | f00f- | it's based on debian |
| 04:11.08 | f00f- | debian is rock solid |
| 04:11.10 | illuminum | woot I just got my first http connection, parsing xml from within the android sdk. well on my way to creative new fronts now. :) |
| 04:11.13 | f00f- | they release once every 2 years |
| 04:11.13 | morrildl | .deb is a joke as a file format |
| 04:11.21 | snadge | ubuntu releases every 6 months |
| 04:11.25 | morrildl | apt-get is admittedly better than say yum, even today |
| 04:11.26 | wastrel | what's the significance of the . at the beginning of .Notepadv1 in the Activity Name in the eclipse plugin? |
| 04:11.29 | morrildl | but rpm beats .deb hands down |
| 04:11.31 | snadge | and follows a different release schedule to debian |
| 04:11.34 | f00f- | ah, i haven't had much interaction with the formats |
| 04:11.38 | illuminum | whats the most popular distro at gentoo |
| 04:11.41 | PoohbaLT | hahahaha... if ubuntu used rpms it'd be fedora. hahaha |
| 04:11.41 | illuminum | at google i mean |
| 04:11.42 | f00f- | is .rpm zip or gz based? |
| 04:11.42 | illuminum | heh |
| 04:11.55 | morrildl | f00f-: cpio |
| 04:11.59 | f00f- | ah cpio, right |
| 04:12.04 | f00f- | mc can easily open them |
| 04:12.06 | unix_infidel | deb is probably more extensible, rpm tends to just be more solid all around. |
| 04:12.16 | unix_infidel | and it's more ubiquitous. |
| 04:12.17 | morrildl | wastrel: it means that it's a child of the package defined for the application |
| 04:12.34 | f00f- | yeah i totally hate the rpm/yum paackage manaegers |
| 04:12.42 | morrildl | wastrel: in that case the . is optional, but you can also have subpackages. e.g. you could use something like ".subpackage.SomeClass" |
| 04:13.02 | morrildl | unix_infidel: exactly |
| 04:14.15 | unix_infidel | i think the logic being that if you can extend all the thinking out of it, it's better for the user. |
| 04:14.18 | unix_infidel | *shrug* |
| 04:15.57 | morrildl | still I can't fault ubuntu for remaining compatible with the upstream distro repos |
| 04:18.57 | morrildl | rwhitby: 117 users. had 121 earlier today. Your IRC bot is making a comeback |
| 04:21.24 | rwhitby | morrildl: I've been too busy to keep creating dummy users - that's why it hasn't peaked higher ... |
| 04:21.41 | morrildl | ;) |
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| 04:34.52 | muthu_ | i'm rooting for motorola |
| 04:39.18 | *** join/#android dmoffett (n=dmoffett@71.33.240.149) |
| 04:42.51 | morrildl | does anyone know if there si a java port of scummvm? |
| 04:43.09 | morrildl | I need to be able to play Secret of Monkey Island on my G1 |
| 04:48.43 | morrildl | apparently not :( |
| 04:50.23 | ttuttle | morrildl: get coding |
| 05:09.48 | minerale | ok, I'll just come out and say this.. but the web browser on the emulator seems slow |
| 05:09.59 | minerale | at least compared to the iphone emulator |
| 05:10.28 | minerale | and I'm running it on a 2.4 core2duo MBP.. with 4 gigs of ram |
| 05:13.08 | minerale | there, i've said it ... |
| 05:15.37 | plusminus_ | anyone got the GPS-mock-providing via DDMS working? |
| 05:25.36 | dmoffett | plusminus: I have been trying to get that to work with no luck. |
| 05:25.52 | dmoffett | about to go to your site for some help. :-) |
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| 05:32.15 | poetic_folly|G5 | anyone have experience with mod_log_sql? |
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| 06:39.02 | f00f- | muthu_: http://blog.guykawasaki.com/2008/09/guy-in-mumbai.html |
| 06:39.38 | f00f- | it's funny the sign says santa cruz |
| 06:39.42 | f00f- | obviously that's not *our* santa cruz |
| 06:41.40 | muthu_ | let me check |
| 06:41.56 | muthu_ | haha |
| 06:42.10 | muthu_ | its *your* santacruz afaik |
| 06:42.38 | f00f- | not the one in bolivia? |
| 06:43.29 | muthu_ | hehe |
| 06:43.36 | muthu_ | guy rocks |
| 06:43.40 | muthu_ | cool guy |
| 06:45.23 | muthu_ | tmobile is hiring huh |
| 06:45.31 | f00f- | for shore |
| 06:45.38 | f00f- | but who isn't |
| 06:45.44 | snadge | do they need lazy linux system administrators? |
| 06:45.47 | f00f- | motorola big hiring spree |
| 06:45.55 | f00f- | nokia is hinting at something |
| 06:45.59 | f00f- | samsung will be hiring if not already |
| 06:46.00 | f00f- | so will lg |
| 06:46.06 | muthu_ | yooohoo |
| 06:46.09 | snadge | why, because they're all switching to android? |
| 06:46.11 | f00f- | not to talk about verizon |
| 06:46.17 | f00f- | and spring once they get out of the red |
| 06:46.26 | muthu_ | vodafone/airtel/hutch |
| 06:46.29 | f00f- | part of it |
| 06:46.33 | muthu_ | reliance/tata |
| 06:46.36 | muthu_ | china mobile |
| 06:46.37 | f00f- | man did you see the CEO compensation the alltel folks got? |
| 06:46.40 | f00f- | it's astounding |
| 06:46.49 | f00f- | up there pimping with the level of goldman sachs et al. |
| 06:46.53 | muthu_ | woah |
| 06:47.39 | f00f- | it's on money.cnn.com |
| 06:48.20 | f00f- | http://money.cnn.com/galleries/2008/fortune/0809/gallery.women_men_highest_pay.fortune/ |
| 06:48.40 | snadge | i think google should loan the money to wall street |
| 06:48.45 | jasta | the US has got to change this crap |
| 06:49.02 | snadge | and in turn, google should get to own and control america |
| 06:49.06 | snadge | :P |
| 06:49.19 | jasta | i fear they'd rename it America Beta |
| 06:49.30 | muthu_ | lol |
| 06:49.30 | f00f- | !evil |
| 06:49.49 | muthu_ | they own EArth |
| 06:49.58 | snadge | thats right.. after all.. it is Google's Earth |
| 06:50.08 | snadge | and its their moon too ;) |
| 06:50.14 | muthu_ | and mars |
| 06:50.29 | snadge | then why cant we vote google? |
| 06:50.33 | snadge | instead of democrat, or republican etc |
| 06:50.51 | umdk1d3 | subliminally whispers ronpaul |
| 06:51.13 | muthu_ | ronpaul is liberatarian? |
| 06:51.20 | snadge | i like ron paul.. i think the man has heart, but he cant really suggest anything other than get rid of the federal reserve |
| 06:51.23 | umdk1d3 | ronpaul is my friend ^.^ |
| 06:51.29 | snadge | yeah ron paul is a librarian :p |
| 06:51.34 | muthu_ | hehe |
| 06:51.53 | muthu_ | anyone running in dems seat will win |
| 06:52.02 | muthu_ | no chance for mccain |
| 06:52.12 | umdk1d3 | lol muthu_ you dont even live here :P |
| 06:52.17 | snadge | you kidding.. half the country still uses diebolds electronic voting systems |
| 06:52.24 | snadge | so this election should be another nail biting one |
| 06:52.28 | snadge | with the republicans winning by 5 votes |
| 06:52.36 | muthu_ | umdk1d3: so what i say must be true ;) |
| 06:52.37 | snadge | :P |
| 06:53.25 | gambler | ron paul is nuts...its so sick that he would have made the best president out of the 3 |
| 06:53.55 | umdk1d3 | i was kinda hoping that pallin would backfire so that ron would be in the running again |
| 06:54.13 | gambler | mmmm palin vpilf.com |
| 06:54.25 | muthu_ | palin effect would be interesting |
| 06:54.28 | snadge | if palin was intelligent.. i'd want to sex her |
| 06:54.40 | muthu_ | hmm.. |
| 06:54.47 | snadge | but watching her interviews on cbs.. my manhood retreated inside my body in horror |
| 06:54.49 | gambler | put it back in your pants snadge... i was kidding |
| 06:54.58 | muthu_ | haha |
| 06:55.05 | umdk1d3 | =O |
| 06:55.20 | umdk1d3 | yall saw the head of skate trailer? |
| 06:55.31 | muthu_ | where's it? |
| 06:55.38 | snadge | there is one thing palin is really good at.. and thats giving a completely incomprehensible answer, that doesnt even come close to answering the question asked.. but sounds good if you're stupid |
| 06:56.06 | snadge | so my guess is after the debates on thursday.. 90% of each party, will think that they won the debate |
| 06:56.17 | snadge | the other 10% are confused statistical anomalies |
| 06:57.04 | muthu_ | mccain won round 1 |
| 06:57.13 | snadge | according to the media, obama did |
| 06:57.27 | snadge | according to each party.. their party did |
| 06:57.31 | umdk1d3 | the media is just nuts here |
| 06:58.02 | umdk1d3 | i used to watch fox news for a good laugh, now all of it is just sad |
| 06:58.09 | snadge | if you read the liberal media like i do.. the msnbc, huffington post etc |
| 06:58.13 | umdk1d3 | to watch how they rip stuff apart with no redeeming value |
| 06:58.13 | gambler | yep...all the analysis on the analysis. I feel so sad for my american friends who still vote |
| 06:58.44 | snadge | obama leads in key areas where it matters .. otherwise its still close |
| 06:58.55 | muthu_ | there's no way mccain can win |
| 06:58.57 | snadge | he also leads polls in florida and ohio |
| 06:59.13 | umdk1d3 | backs away from politics |
| 06:59.21 | gambler | i love how flip flopping has become the ultimate evil.... |
| 06:59.26 | gambler | revising your opinion under new evidence is a sign of intelligence |
| 06:59.31 | gambler | but one you will pay dearly for |
| 06:59.49 | snadge | it depends how quickly you flip flop.. and for what reasons |
| 07:00.05 | muthu_ | yeah, not like every 2 days |
| 07:00.07 | gambler | no it doesnt...any flip flopping is punished |
| 07:00.22 | snadge | changing your mind once.. after 2 years.. is one thing |
| 07:00.32 | snadge | changing your position after 2 days.. and then back again |
| 07:00.48 | snadge | deserves crucifixion |
| 07:02.00 | gambler | meh the smartest ppl i have ever met are all huge flip floppers |
| 07:05.45 | gambler | I hope Bill Gates runs for president or some other rich patriotic dude |
| 07:05.49 | gambler | on a 3rd party ticket |
| 07:08.13 | muthu_ | rich fellows dont do politics |
| 07:09.24 | gambler | bloomberg wants it... |
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| 07:16.32 | snadge | america should just tank, and the rest of the world loot and pillage anything of value thats left ;) |
| 07:16.42 | snadge | im joking.. haha |
| 07:17.22 | snadge | the rest of the world seems to be very interested in the american economy though |
| 07:17.38 | snadge | like our prime minister.. begging for the reforms to go through congress |
| 07:18.03 | snadge | which incidentally have been passed for anyone still living under a rock ;) |
| 07:18.32 | snadge | by reforms i actually meant 700B bailout plan |
| 07:22.17 | jasta | sigh, working on threaded code late at night. i sure hope i didn't code in a dead lock somewhere ;) |
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| 07:33.02 | muthu_ | oh its passed |
| 07:33.05 | muthu_ | great |
| 07:33.37 | muthu_ | jasta: don't hit on sleep too many times ;) |
| 07:36.23 | tric | oh, nice, native sdk announced. |
| 07:37.01 | jasta | uhh, really? |
| 07:37.37 | isaac | uh, where? what? |
| 07:38.32 | jasta | hmm, my shenanigans just caused the adb server to crash? |
| 07:38.51 | tric | http://groups.google.com/group/android-developers/msg/9c7ffe8c2b0b12e2 |
| 07:39.19 | gambler | wow... |
| 07:39.46 | jasta | that's great news |
| 07:40.53 | duey | wouldn't you have to recompile your stuff for every device :\ |
| 07:41.33 | jasta | well, for every unique binary incompatible architecture, just like all Linux distros do with hordes of software. |
| 07:41.52 | jasta | (enter build system...) |
| 07:41.57 | tric | yeah. of course. but there are reasons not to port stuff to java/dalvik |
| 07:42.02 | duey | ya just a pain for users |
| 07:43.02 | tric | and i guess they are adding it cause ppl will use jni even without the native official support, cause it works (for the most) |
| 07:43.14 | gambler | is ARM code portable among different ARMs? it seems like the dominant mobile plaform |
| 07:43.25 | jasta | duey: not really, if they offer you a sane distribution mechanism. |
| 07:43.45 | jasta | one which allows you to package your software to include all of the supported archs and let their package manager work out the installation |
| 07:44.14 | tric | maybe a multi platform apk would be cool, just like the apple way of ppc and x86 executable in one binary |
| 07:44.17 | jasta | gambler: there are families that are compatible. |
| 07:44.26 | jasta | but not every ARM processor is compatible, no. |
| 07:44.47 | tric | but android isnt ported to other than one plattform anyway |
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| 07:46.59 | jasta | i dont see this as an unmanagable problem at all. in fact, i see it as a well solved problem space that Google should be more than capable of managing well. |
| 07:47.17 | jasta | and i'm glad they're officially recognizing that fact :) |
| 07:53.45 | jasta | holy crap. my huge and complex MediaPlayer workaround is finally starting to work :) |
| 07:55.50 | tric | jasta: i guess enough devs are using jni or asking for it. |
| 08:03.53 | f00f- | didn't pass the houseyet folks |
| 08:06.17 | jasta | i am so ecstatic that i got this shit working |
| 08:06.35 | jasta | this is huge. i should post this to devtcg.org |
| 08:07.20 | jasta | i should probably finish seek support first, though :) |
| 08:07.29 | jasta | i guess that's the real impressive part of this design |
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| 08:13.28 | f00f- | can i use five as a music player only? |
| 08:13.30 | f00f- | with local mp3 files |
| 08:13.41 | jasta | not currently, but i'm working on that next |
| 08:13.43 | anno^da | does that mean that it would be possible to use libraries like the "libpurple" to create great instant messaging apps? |
| 08:13.54 | jasta | i'm going to include some sophistication to let Five "consume" raw files on your SD card |
| 08:14.04 | f00f- | very nice |
| 08:14.16 | jasta | that is, try to detect (from the tags) whether they are files in your online collection and, if they are, move them into Five's cache system to be managed like all the others |
| 08:14.17 | f00f- | i'll be looking for crossfading support, too, fyi :) |
| 08:14.21 | anno^da | jasta: I'm looking for FLAC support in your app ;) |
| 08:14.26 | jasta | so this would allow users of Five to bulk copy some or all of their mp3s to "start" |
| 08:14.44 | jasta | anno^da: already has it (sorta). the server can transcode FLACs to OGG on the fly |
| 08:15.03 | jasta | f00f-: yes, well, cross-fading is tricky because the MediaPlayer would really need that sophistication. |
| 08:15.05 | anno^da | ah havent looked closer into your app |
| 08:15.27 | anno^da | http://digg.com/gadgets/Google_working_on_official_support_for_JNI_in_Android_SDK |
| 08:16.05 | jasta | anno^da: there are quite a few little pieces that need to be assembled together before it can be mass distributed, but i'm sure they'll fall into place soon enough. |
| 08:16.37 | tric | anno^da: well, will be a long way to see phones with this native app/lib support. |
| 08:16.38 | anno^da | ah sounds great. |
| 08:16.47 | jasta | the suckiest part though, is that Five can't be distributed by the app store except as a demo (which i plan to do if i can secure good enough server bandwidth) |
| 08:17.19 | jasta | because the Android part of Five is not especially useful without the server software installed onto your PC. |
| 08:17.19 | muthu_ | brasero in ubuntu is not able to write a dvd |
| 08:17.27 | muthu_ | any dvd writers for ubuntu? |
| 08:17.48 | anno^da | jasta: Well ok I would install the server software. :-) |
| 08:17.49 | tric | k3b |
| 08:18.01 | muthu_ | any gnome stuff? |
| 08:18.04 | jasta | hmm, have you guys seen this -scale option in the emulator? |
| 08:18.07 | jasta | this is sweet |
| 08:18.40 | muthu_ | scale 0.6 is what i use to get real device effect |
| 08:19.14 | tric | gnome-baker? |
| 08:19.15 | jasta | i'd need a tape measure to tell ;) |
| 08:19.16 | tric | gnomebaker |
| 08:19.21 | jasta | -scale auto seemed to work reasonably well for me |
| 08:19.46 | muthu_ | tric: thx |
| 08:20.23 | tric | muthu: what about apt-cache search burn dvd |
| 08:20.54 | muthu_ | am new to this whole apt stuff |
| 08:21.10 | jasta | muthu_: apt-get moo |
| 08:21.13 | muthu_ | migrated from fedora, but ubuntu has its own mess |
| 08:21.31 | muthu_ | jasta: thx.. will try |
| 08:21.41 | jasta | hehe |
| 08:21.50 | jasta | also, apt-get --help | tail -1 |
| 08:22.00 | jasta | Debian loves bovines. |
| 08:25.01 | muthu_ | 10 days back.. got stuck in fedora |
| 08:25.12 | muthu_ | still trying to get back into some sorta coding shape |
| 08:27.05 | fearphage | jasta: were you still going to point me to the chipset information? |
| 08:27.15 | fearphage | for the g1 |
| 08:27.40 | jasta | uhh, wasn't planning on it |
| 08:27.58 | jasta | in fact, i was thinking i might just go to bed |
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| 08:28.25 | fearphage | ok, i asked a question you asked me to clarify and then nothing else happened |
| 08:28.31 | fearphage | i was mistaken. sorry |
| 08:28.37 | jasta | i might have wandered off |
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| 08:29.14 | fearphage | can anyone tell me where i can find detailed hardware information about the g1? details like hardware make/model and the wifi chipset |
| 08:29.30 | fearphage | mobo make/model* |
| 08:31.16 | tric | ask google devs or tmobile or htc ;) |
| 08:35.02 | jasta | or just check the git tree ;) |
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| 08:38.40 | jasta | night folks |
| 08:43.38 | kaze | is gone.. autoaway after 15 min ..[cyp(l/on.p/on)] |
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| 09:36.24 | BBHoss | anything in android to read QR codes? |
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| 09:39.23 | schmylan | google for zxing |
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| 10:32.22 | muthu | http://googlemobile.blogspot.com/2008/10/google-on-android-search.html |
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| 13:14.21 | pardom | is there an intent to open up the "add to contacts" activity? |
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| 13:37.45 | pardom | android question: is there an intent to open up the "add to contacts" activity? |
| 13:38.41 | pardom | or do i just put it in there via uri |
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| 13:39.59 | muthu_ | you should use a content uri |
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| 13:57.13 | pardom | k |
| 13:58.01 | pardom | i just didnt wanna jam data in there, but i guess the user can edit contacts so it doesnt matter |
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| 14:18.10 | muthu_ | anyone using netbeans? |
| 14:18.32 | muthu_ | heard its pretty good ide |
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| 14:20.57 | cutmasta | my favorite |
| 14:21.19 | muthu_ | cutmasta: does it support android? |
| 14:21.32 | cutmasta | no idea |
| 14:21.34 | cutmasta | for android |
| 14:21.37 | cutmasta | i use eclipse |
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| 14:21.42 | cutmasta | with the android plugin |
| 14:21.53 | muthu_ | ok |
| 14:28.20 | jasonlee | yeah, i wish there was a netbeans plugin for android too |
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| 14:30.17 | muthu_ | we'll see some once 1.0 is out |
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| 14:35.17 | Dougie187 | muthu_: someone was saying undroid is an android plugin for netbeans |
| 14:35.25 | Dougie187 | ionno know |
| 14:35.28 | Dougie187 | though* |
| 14:35.42 | muthu_ | Dougie187: yeah, but seems outdated |
| 14:35.45 | jasonlee | yeah, i read the website, doesn't look like it was more than a weekend project |
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| 14:48.12 | pardom | how do i stop/exit an activity? |
| 14:49.08 | living_sword | system manages that. |
| 14:49.25 | pardom | yes but i need to manage it lol |
| 14:49.58 | living_sword | u can use finish() |
| 14:50.03 | pardom | k thx |
| 14:57.54 | SanMehat | morning |
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| 15:37.28 | muthu_ | handango, market, slideme, tmobile.. wow! |
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| 15:41.43 | dd94300 | Can somebody tell me which application can be replaced in SDK 1.0? Or point me to right place.... |
| 15:42.21 | jasta | can you be more specific perhaps? |
| 15:42.35 | dd94300 | like Dialer |
| 15:42.44 | dd94300 | is it possible to replace it |
| 15:42.51 | jasta | yes |
| 15:43.45 | dd94300 | does this apply to other apps, such as contacts? |
| 15:43.59 | jasta | contacts can be replaced too, yes |
| 15:44.19 | jasta | moreover, you'd implement your own app that does everything the contacts app does |
| 15:44.20 | dd94300 | thanks jasta, one more question |
| 15:44.23 | jasta | and registers all the right intent-filters |
| 15:44.33 | jasta | however, you can do nothing to remove the Contacts app from the applications menu |
| 15:44.47 | jasta | and that is true of most apps that will be shipped with the phone. |
| 15:45.49 | jasta | with sufficient skill, you could reflash your own device to include your apps instead of the default ones, however. |
| 15:46.18 | dd94300 | could you tell me where i can find these information? |
| 15:46.28 | jasta | what information? |
| 15:46.58 | dd94300 | like anything that Google have mentioned in their docs |
| 15:47.16 | jasta | not following. |
| 15:48.27 | dd94300 | I am looking for comments or documents that is provided by google |
| 15:48.34 | jasta | ...on what topic? |
| 15:48.52 | dd94300 | on replacing Default apps |
| 15:49.06 | jasta | i dont know that theyve written anything so explicit |
| 15:50.18 | dd94300 | jasta , thanks for the info. I am not well skilled, yet but i will still do little research on reflashing my device |
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| 15:52.15 | jasta | dd94300: i didn't intend to imply that reflashing is officially supported. |
| 15:52.43 | jasta | quite the opposite, and my comment about "sufficient skill" meant that if you don't know what i'm talking about, it likely won't be possible for you for quite some time. |
| 15:58.13 | dd94300 | jasta, thanks for the note. I am just going to little research on it, I am not planning to do it. |
| 16:00.22 | Disconnect | any official word yet about whether google will work to keep everyone in the sandbox? |
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| 16:01.15 | jasta | i dont think you really have to worry about Google |
| 16:01.20 | jasta | worry about T-Mobile and HTC :) |
| 16:01.53 | jasta | but even then, i don't think any amount of energy expended by any OHA member will be enough to stop the open source community from ripping this thing apart |
| 16:03.01 | ttuttle | greetings |
| 16:04.25 | pjv | hi all, I posted a wishlist bug report on launchpad.net earlier about translations for Android, but it got a rather negative reply: https://bugs.launchpad.net/rosetta/+bug/275290 |
| 16:05.30 | pjv | what do you guys think? anybody thinking of using launchpad? |
| 16:05.40 | ttuttle | no |
| 16:08.47 | muthu_ | can apps be submitted simultaneously to multiple markets like handango, tmobile etc.,? |
| 16:09.10 | Cedric2 | Depends on the TOS of each individual market |
| 16:09.23 | Cedric2 | I would certainly not update my app to a market asking me for exclusivity |
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| 16:09.50 | muthu_ | ok, thx |
| 16:09.58 | muthu_ | "non-exclusivity" is the key |
| 16:10.03 | muthu_ | got it |
| 16:10.56 | muthu_ | guess handango is non exclusive worldwide |
| 16:11.15 | muthu_ | android market shouldn't be an issue |
| 16:11.26 | muthu_ | tmobile - no idea! |
| 16:11.28 | Cedric2 | Yeah we are not evil, remember? |
| 16:11.38 | ttuttle | romainguy: hey |
| 16:11.57 | muthu_ | i can trust google anyday |
| 16:13.45 | muthu_ | its the 3rd party markets that we need to really read the TOS |
| 16:13.59 | muthu_ | but mostly it looks fine |
| 16:17.01 | Disconnect | jasta: thats kinda my thought (sorry, my net connection blew up so i was afk earlier) but it really comes down to google and tmob in this case. wondering if (for example) they are gonna try to cripple jni or encrypt the flasher images, etc.. |
| 16:17.39 | Disconnect | has yet to find a field-upgradable linux box that couldn't be broken, generally without too much trouble, but you never know. |
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| 16:51.58 | herriojr | I'm curious, what does android do if I have two services from two different apps with the same name/interface? |
| 16:52.12 | herriojr | how does it know which to call |
| 16:54.32 | muthu_ | it might present a dialog to choose |
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| 16:57.23 | jasta | any folks around with devices that would be willing to help me test something? |
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| 17:09.47 | Proteus | quick question - does android have any support for SVG? |
| 17:09.55 | Disconnect | nope |
| 17:10.09 | Proteus | damn |
| 17:10.17 | Proteus | any similar alternatives? |
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| 17:11.33 | Proteus_ | whoops, connection error - are there any alternatives to svg available? |
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| 17:13.20 | jasta | Proteus_: well, it supports nine-patch bitmaps which can be used to achieve similar effects in certain situations. |
| 17:15.04 | Proteus_ | jasta, I'm not familiar with nine-patch bitmaps |
| 17:17.00 | Proteus_ | is android compatable with OGL ES 1.1 or just 1.0? |
| 17:17.09 | jasta | no idea. |
| 17:18.00 | fadden | http://code.google.com/android/toolbox/apis/opengl.html |
| 17:19.17 | Proteus_ | yah, it's just been a while since I checked in here and I'd heard that 1.1 support was forthcomming |
| 17:25.08 | muthu_ | http://www.pcpro.co.uk/news/228201/nokia-unimpressed-by-android.html |
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| 17:28.56 | Dipen | Does anybody know if HTC G1 comes with video/flash player? |
| 17:29.32 | monteslu | as in adobe flash? |
| 17:29.36 | montamer | hi is there a way to unlock screen from console / start any application ? ...... Im trying to run android on a arm board .... android starts but by default the screen locks .... i still have no gpio driver |
| 17:29.44 | Dipen | yes |
| 17:29.48 | monteslu | doubt it |
| 17:30.00 | monteslu | not one in the sdk |
| 17:30.31 | Dipen | no, i am talking about actual HTC G1 |
| 17:30.43 | monteslu | Dipen, supposed to be the exact same bits |
| 17:32.08 | zhobbs | Dipen: no flash, but there is video capabilities |
| 17:32.44 | Dipen | ok thanks zhobbs...monteslu |
| 17:32.48 | monteslu | yeah, just use SVG... |
| 17:32.56 | monteslu | oh wait, there's no SVG :) |
| 17:33.26 | jasta | zhobbs: what is Adobe's fucking problem by the way? |
| 17:34.08 | monteslu | incompitence? |
| 17:34.24 | zhobbs | jasta: don't know, what'd they do? |
| 17:34.49 | monteslu | not put any resources into a 64 bit flash player |
| 17:34.55 | monteslu | or photoshop for linux |
| 17:35.21 | monteslu | or 64bit photoshop for linux :) |
| 17:36.13 | Proteus_ | I love their ancient pdf reader for linux. Nearly unusable, ugly as hell, and completely out of date. |
| 17:37.45 | benley | fortunately there are 9000 other pdf readers that work fine |
| 17:38.01 | benley | (except with PDFs generated by adobe's ridiculous 'features') |
| 17:38.36 | Proteus_ | right. xpdf and kpdf are more pleasant to use than adobe's own windows products |
| 17:38.51 | benley | they probably won't release a new acroread for linux because they can't figure out how to wrap it in 47 layers of installers and downloader apps and other obfuscation |
| 17:38.54 | jasta | zhobbs: i'm referring to their attitude toward mobile web browsers |
| 17:39.27 | jasta | i've heard they have just very recently decided to create a FLASH player for iPhone, but then no plans to support any other platform? why hasn't this been a no-brainer for them since day 1?! |
| 17:40.14 | f00f- | Proteus_: acrobat for linux isn't that old |
| 17:40.44 | f00f- | not sure what thou smoketh |
| 17:40.53 | Disconnect | has flash on his e90 and 9300i. its not the latest but it works well enough. |
| 17:40.54 | Proteus_ | it's been a while since i tried it, perhaps they've updated it. It's a moot point though considering the quality of the alternatives |
| 17:41.07 | f00f- | the alternatives totally suck imho |
| 17:41.12 | Proteus_ | really? |
| 17:41.15 | zhobbs | I like kpdf |
| 17:41.18 | Proteus_ | yah |
| 17:41.23 | Proteus_ | I second kpdf |
| 17:41.34 | jasta | yeah i dont find the alternatives bad at all |
| 17:41.37 | f00f- | i havent used kpdf, but the other ones are pretty basic in terms of navigating a TOC in a PDF |
| 17:41.38 | jasta | evince and kpdf are both quite nice |
| 17:41.53 | jasta | evince is GNOME-esque so totally simple and not enough features for me |
| 17:41.54 | f00f- | evince is very bare, i use it when i have no choice |
| 17:41.56 | jasta | but kpdf is what you'd expect |
| 17:42.20 | jasta | anyway, i don't get why FLASH sin't ported to mobile browsers |
| 17:42.29 | jasta | it makes absolutely no sense, and i want to know what the hell Adobe is thinking |
| 17:42.38 | f00f- | jasta: they're pushing Flash Lite |
| 17:42.52 | muthu_ | jasta: flash is not welcome |
| 17:43.08 | Proteus_ | is ms pushing their flash takeoff in the mobile world? |
| 17:43.33 | muthu_ | adobe's best bet is android |
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| 17:44.06 | jasta | muthu_: it's not "welcome"? |
| 17:44.21 | Proteus_ | muthu_, that's a strong statement - what leads you to that conclusion? |
| 17:44.30 | zhobbs | romainguy_: so you think I can get jhat working with those heap dumps? |
| 17:44.31 | jasta | f00f-: but isn't Flash Lite not really a browser component but just some lame UI toolkit layered on top of mobile platforms? |
| 17:44.53 | muthu_ | i meant, the mobile o/s so far might not have given them a red carpet welcome to roll out flash |
| 17:44.59 | tethridge | Last night I played around with the emulator surfing some web pages and I have to say that the default behavior is very frustrating. I don't know why they didn't zoom out and show the whole page by default. |
| 17:45.10 | tethridge | I hope there will soon be a setting to correct that |
| 17:45.19 | f00f- | jasta: it's Flash *for* mobile platforms, same citizenship status as Java ME on a phone, for example |
| 17:45.20 | zhobbs | flash is pretty annoying on a large screen with lots of CPU power, seems like it'd be even more annoying on a small screen/slow CPU |
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| 17:45.52 | f00f- | i'm pretty sure the Flash supported in the S60 browser is Flash Lite |
| 17:46.16 | Proteus_ | zhobbs, just a few flash ads brings some of my systems to a crawl |
| 17:47.46 | Proteus_ | http://groups.google.com/group/android-developers/browse_thread/thread/f31003bbed8bf7a9/ has anyone else managed to get c++ apps running? |
| 17:48.23 | jasta | Proteus_: yes, lots of people |
| 17:48.33 | Proteus_ | how do I go about doing that? |
| 17:48.38 | jasta | but being not supported, you shouldn't spend a lot of energy developing a real app this way until the native SDK is released. |
| 17:48.47 | Proteus_ | ah |
| 17:49.18 | Proteus_ | a native sdk would be nice - are you aware of any release dates for this? |
| 17:49.34 | jasta | no, it was only very recently mentioned. |
| 17:49.38 | jasta | but it is allegedly in the works |
| 17:50.30 | Proteus_ | interesting |
| 17:50.43 | *** join/#android Dougie187 (n=doug@wg-d232061.dsl.fsu.edu) |
| 17:52.15 | f00f- | does anyone know of any interesting android-related open-source projects not revolving around multimedia? |
| 17:52.25 | jasta | lol |
| 17:52.35 | jasta | you're just sick of hearing me talk, aren't you? :) |
| 17:53.30 | jasta | f00f-: i wrote a solitaire engine, but it needs some work before it can be released |
| 17:53.41 | jasta | freecell and klondike are supported at the moment... |
| 17:55.21 | pjv | f00f, sure I'm working on several open source projects, address me privately if you want to know more |
| 17:56.08 | f00f- | yeah i'm just exploring some non-game/non-media/non-fun apps/concepts |
| 17:56.09 | jasta | pjv: link? |
| 17:57.01 | pjv | jasta, heh Is it ok if I give you the link tomorrow? I think I'll have one app at a decent state then |
| 17:57.20 | jasta | well, i just want to explore |
| 17:57.50 | jasta | what are they at least? |
| 17:58.22 | pjv | long-term open-source projects |
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| 17:58.46 | pjv | more supportive than apps by themselves |
| 17:59.16 | pjv | also more like domain objects or reusable components |
| 17:59.35 | pjv | rather than using multimedia or maps or whatever (well they will have a ui of their own) |
| 18:00.53 | jasta | but...what. are. they? :) |
| 18:01.13 | pjv | :) tomorrow |
| 18:01.30 | jasta | is your open source project a secret? :) |
| 18:01.56 | pjv | actually no, they have public project pages, so you should be able to google them ;-) |
| 18:02.22 | pjv | it's just, that they are in the idea state, and it's just myself who has started them |
| 18:02.32 | pjv | so they are by no means "living" projects yet |
| 18:02.38 | f00f- | okay understood |
| 18:02.51 | f00f- | do you see value in a slippy map that's not backed by google maps data? |
| 18:03.39 | pjv | I'm not keeping them a secret, I'm just keeping them to myself as I don't think they are worth your time to "explore" (at least not if you are not offering to join in) |
| 18:03.48 | pjv | atm that is |
| 18:04.05 | pjv | f00f, whats slippy? |
| 18:04.39 | f00f- | like Maps on android |
| 18:04.40 | wastrel | like google maps |
| 18:04.47 | wastrel | you can slide them in all directions |
| 18:04.50 | wastrel | <3 slippy maps |
| 18:05.20 | pjv | f00f, sure, but seems like a hell of a commitment if you have no guarantees as to providing the map data |
| 18:05.34 | f00f- | OpenStreetMap |
| 18:06.52 | greudin | OMG JOO STOLE MY IDEA |
| 18:06.55 | greudin | :) |
| 18:06.58 | pjv | it certainly is a "good" idea |
| 18:07.20 | f00f- | but? |
| 18:07.21 | f00f- | :) |
| 18:07.26 | pjv | but how feasible? |
| 18:07.53 | pjv | I'm thinking several months of work just to get the basics and more than one person |
| 18:08.03 | pjv | but then again I don't know much about the maps |
| 18:08.20 | greudin | north south east west : thats all |
| 18:08.59 | f00f- | tile loading, caching, slippyness, that's basically it |
| 18:09.09 | f00f- | not like Maps, just a basic MapView |
| 18:09.20 | pjv | hmm, I already finished an Android project some months ago that used the maps quite intensively and things were certainly not as easy as they seemed |
| 18:09.23 | herriojr | where can I view the logs of this chat? |
| 18:09.53 | f00f- | google for jasta, muthu, f00f-, etc. |
| 18:10.13 | pjv | if you want to supply positions, you'll have to provide an ellipsoid model for instance |
| 18:10.29 | greudin | ellipsoid model ? |
| 18:10.41 | f00f- | positions of? |
| 18:10.56 | f00f- | you will need geo coordinates to screen coordinates mapping, of course |
| 18:11.20 | herriojr | ah, today's logs aren't up yet |
| 18:13.04 | Proteus_ | my understanding is that Dalvik doesn't use JIT - what functions are hardest hit in terms of performance? Anecdotal evidence is fine, but a list with some charts would be great |
| 18:13.43 | f00f- | agreed. i suspect MapView is a native implementation |
| 18:14.21 | pjv | WGS84 ellipsoid I think is used by google maps (used to be in the android docs, but cant find it right now) |
| 18:15.21 | pjv | ...and even MapView is at the limits of the phone's performance sometimes |
| 18:15.33 | f00f- | oh right WGS84, yes definitely it is a must |
| 18:15.53 | *** join/#android Proteus_ (n=Proteus@97-119-7-233.omah.qwest.net) |
| 18:15.54 | pjv | not to discourage you, f00f, just to let you know it's more than just a matter of N-E-S-W |
| 18:16.07 | f00f- | i'm pretty happy with MapView's performance both on emulator and in real-life from what i've seen |
| 18:16.11 | pjv | then again, I could be wrong ;-) |
| 18:16.43 | f00f- | yeah, it's totally more than cardinal directions ;) |
| 18:17.20 | summatusmentis | should find an app that would be cool on Android |
| 18:19.21 | pjv | I would use it though, and in my developing I would at least leave the choice between Google and OpenStreetMap if possible |
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| 18:20.20 | muthu_ | anddev has some openstreemap integration |
| 18:21.57 | f00f- | although at the same time, i'm not sure if there would be a reason to use OSM data since Google gives android apps free/nice access to Maps data |
| 18:22.07 | f00f- | not too bad licensing |
| 18:22.36 | Disconnect | summatusmentis: bash / xterm |
| 18:28.00 | summatusmentis | Disconnect: is there no terminal app? |
| 18:28.12 | Disconnect | nope |
| 18:28.24 | Disconnect | and jni isn't supported yet (although reports are that it works) |
| 18:28.27 | summatusmentis | really? and noone is working on one? |
| 18:28.30 | summatusmentis | jni? |
| 18:28.41 | wastrel | java native something :] |
| 18:28.46 | f00f- | interface |
| 18:28.50 | summatusmentis | oh |
| 18:29.13 | f00f- | it'll be JNI-esque i think |
| 18:29.17 | summatusmentis | so I wouldn't be intruding on anyone's work, or anything like that? |
| 18:29.39 | Disconnect | is prolly gonna work on it but my last java adventure was 1998ish so.. if its enough to get dropbear sshd started i'll consider that a win |
| 18:30.46 | summatusmentis | hmm |
| 18:30.55 | summatusmentis | I have some Java experience |
| 18:31.04 | *** join/#android romainguy (n=gfx@nat/google/x-622b4d5c372f4706) |
| 18:31.04 | summatusmentis | 's school forces Java down our throats |
| 18:31.43 | f00f- | i believe romain is the one who leaked JNI news ;) |
| 18:31.53 | Disconnect | has modern java books OTW from amazon (..erm, and maybe a couple of torrents) |
| 18:32.02 | f00f- | romainguy: is com.google.maps.whatever.MapView a native app? |
| 18:32.13 | romainguy | MapView is not a native widget |
| 18:32.14 | f00f- | native-backed i mean |
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| 18:32.21 | f00f- | okay, great! |
| 18:33.22 | pjv | great! |
| 18:33.32 | summatusmentis | is android dev difficult? |
| 18:33.53 | Disconnect | nearly impossible |
| 18:34.15 | summatusmentis | *rolls eyes* I've not got a lot of dev experience |
| 18:34.17 | summatusmentis | that's all :) |
| 18:35.02 | pjv | summatusmentis, on open-source projects you can alway help out by translating... |
| 18:35.45 | summatusmentis | pjv: I only sort of speak one language worth translating |
| 18:36.18 | pjv | most people do, but chances are many projects would need translating into that language |
| 18:36.19 | summatusmentis | I guess what I'm asking, is the learning curve pretty steep? I did some kernel dev for GSoC this summer, and it kicked my butt, literally all the time |
| 18:36.28 | tomgibara | about the poor quality of Adobe's PDF readers: I understand that the key reason they provide free readers (as MS does for Word) is that it's a requirement by the US Gov. for use as a government document format. |
| 18:36.35 | tomgibara | The requirement is that a free reader is available, not that it's good. |
| 18:36.41 | Disconnect | this is only a virtual android, so the chances of it being able to assault your posterior are low |
| 18:37.04 | Cedric2 | Disconnect: nice |
| 18:42.00 | greudin | is now playing: Beastie Boys - Alive |
| 18:42.47 | Disconnect | ..thats nice for you? |
| 18:49.10 | f00f- | kernel development is great for your ego |
| 18:49.21 | f00f- | android development will get you more glory in the real world |
| 18:49.50 | f00f- | no offense of course :) |
| 18:49.56 | summatusmentis | f00f-: kernel dev was horrible for my ego, I was really bad at it :) |
| 18:50.32 | f00f- | i remember doing a couple of hello, world kernel modules |
| 18:50.43 | f00f- | the kernel programming howto/cookbook was great |
| 18:51.10 | summatusmentis | I was doing file system stuff, and I didn't have enouch experience |
| 18:54.10 | wastrel | summatusmentis: i'll work on an app with you |
| 18:54.35 | summatusmentis | wastrel: my biggest issue is visualizing a cool app |
| 18:54.48 | f00f- | visualizing? |
| 18:54.50 | f00f- | in your head? |
| 18:54.53 | wastrel | think of 5 things you'd like an app to do -- or 5 apps you like, |
| 18:54.57 | wastrel | then put them all together! |
| 18:55.05 | summatusmentis | I'm kind of a hands on person, and I have difficulty seeing what a device could to without playing with the device, etc. |
| 18:55.11 | summatusmentis | f00f-: yeah, see above |
| 18:55.23 | wastrel | we'll make a horrible huge monster of an app that does a little bit of everything |
| 18:56.00 | summatusmentis | but then noone will use it :) |
| 18:56.21 | f00f- | wastrel: do it. i'll fund you with comments. |
| 18:57.03 | wastrel | first i have to finish the notepad tutorial |
| 18:57.10 | wastrel | summatusmentis: did you do the notepad tutorial? |
| 18:57.30 | summatusmentis | wastrel: I haven't done anything, I downloaded the SDK for the emulator >_> |
| 18:58.03 | summatusmentis | the same reason I had openmoko setup :) |
| 18:58.27 | greudin | is now playing: NTM - Le Monde de demain |
| 18:58.58 | wastrel | summatusmentis: do the hello world tutorial then the notepad tutorial |
| 18:59.05 | wastrel | then we'll whip up an irc client :] |
| 18:59.22 | summatusmentis | wastrel: haha, or a terminal app, and ssh into irssi :) |
| 19:01.11 | summatusmentis | there are some cool accelerometer apps that people are doing with openmoko |
| 19:01.43 | wastrel | one of my co-workers got the iphone light saber app and some external speakers |
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| 19:01.56 | wastrel | and was jedi-fighting all around. within a week all the iphone users had the app |
| 19:02.25 | f00f- | nice |
| 19:02.38 | greudin | :) |
| 19:02.38 | summatusmentis | well, like, ope |
| 19:02.56 | summatusmentis | I hit enter in the wrong window |
| 19:03.33 | summatusmentis | no, openmoko has ideas where you can put the phone facedown on the table to put it on silent, for instance |
| 19:03.40 | summatusmentis | or location based ringers |
| 19:04.01 | wastrel | ah that's cool |
| 19:04.43 | summatusmentis | or shaking the phone to hear a sloshing sound that tells you how much batter is left |
| 19:04.56 | summatusmentis | or marbles in a tin can as to how many unread text messages |
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| 19:05.58 | wastrel | those are kuhl |
| 19:06.11 | f00f- | summatusmentis: samir had that |
| 19:06.12 | f00f- | for symbian |
| 19:06.14 | f00f- | using accelerometer |
| 19:06.18 | f00f- | already works on N95 |
| 19:06.21 | f00f- | for past few months |
| 19:06.31 | summatusmentis | I don't think it's a new idea, it's still cool |
| 19:06.49 | summatusmentis | the accelerometer really interests me |
| 19:08.03 | wastrel | write a hack that will let me go into landscape without opening the keyboard |
| 19:08.05 | wastrel | :] |
| 19:08.25 | summatusmentis | it can't do taht? |
| 19:08.27 | summatusmentis | that* |
| 19:08.52 | f00f- | wastrel: i was really expecting that |
| 19:09.10 | summatusmentis | is there a listing anywhere of what people are working on, what the phone can/can't don? |
| 19:09.13 | summatusmentis | do* |
| 19:09.23 | summatusmentis | s/phone/android/ |
| 19:09.28 | f00f- | no |
| 19:09.34 | f00f- | this channel --> |
| 19:09.38 | f00f- | has everything |
| 19:09.46 | summatusmentis | I see |
| 19:09.49 | f00f- | all the important people, projects, etc. |
| 19:09.59 | f00f- | i'd check anddev.org |
| 19:10.01 | summatusmentis | and the useless people like me |
| 19:10.13 | f00f- | and there's a bunch of fanboi sites that list android projects |
| 19:10.25 | summatusmentis | I see |
| 19:10.38 | wastrel | marketplace |
| 19:10.53 | monteslu | can you get to the markeplace with the sdk? |
| 19:11.02 | summatusmentis | not that I know of... |
| 19:11.17 | monteslu | would be cool to pull free stuff down with it |
| 19:11.19 | f00f- | summatusmentis: expect more info about apps in late october |
| 19:11.27 | f00f- | i have a feeling many will release like mad |
| 19:11.41 | Cedric2 | summatusmentis: Market is still white list only, but you won't have much more to wait |
| 19:11.42 | summatusmentis | I assume so, but not accessible from emulator, I don't think |
| 19:12.16 | summatusmentis | is not buying a G1 |
| 19:12.50 | monteslu | why not? |
| 19:13.13 | monteslu | I'm getting one even though there's not SVG support |
| 19:13.42 | summatusmentis | I'm in a contract with Sprint, I'm a poor college student, gsm doesn't work very well where I live, etc. etc. |
| 19:13.58 | wastrel | i'm totally getting one <3 |
| 19:14.15 | summatusmentis | I'm waiting on the Sprint android device before I buy |
| 19:14.23 | summatusmentis | if gsm worked, I would, probably |
| 19:15.32 | monteslu | i was already a tmobile customer, linux user, and java developer... all worked out perfectly :) |
| 19:15.34 | amjad | i am a poor graduate summatusmentis |
| 19:16.05 | summatusmentis | monteslu: I'm not that lucky |
| 19:16.23 | summatusmentis | amjad: I just can't justify it, particularly not with all the other factors |
| 19:16.26 | ttuttle | Grumble. |
| 19:16.30 | wastrel | i'm getting one and when the next good android phone comes out i'm giving my wife the g1 and i get the new toy :] |
| 19:16.35 | ttuttle | The wifi in this classroom is sooooo bad that I've switched to WWAN. |
| 19:16.42 | amjad | i am a linux developer, t-mobile customer and was a java developer in my previous life |
| 19:17.09 | amjad | but java and linux are not good friends really |
| 19:18.18 | summatusmentis | now, if someone were to fund it for me... then I'd have no issue buying it :) |
| 19:18.25 | Disconnect | that'd hardly be buying it |
| 19:18.29 | summatusmentis | haha, touche |
| 19:19.15 | monteslu | amjad, huh? |
| 19:19.24 | monteslu | linux and java have been working together well for a long time |
| 19:19.27 | wastrel | i'm learning java |
| 19:19.42 | amjad | java is not open source until openjdk came along |
| 19:19.50 | monteslu | amjad, gcj? |
| 19:20.01 | monteslu | that was available in what '99 ? |
| 19:20.07 | kingkung | hello |
| 19:20.09 | amjad | gcj is evil, i can not get it compile on my gcc ppc |
| 19:20.13 | monteslu | not to mention a handful of other vms |
| 19:20.13 | Cedric2 | monteslu: I wouldn't say "well" |
| 19:20.22 | monteslu | give me a break |
| 19:20.29 | monteslu | as well as it did on windows for years |
| 19:20.32 | Cedric2 | Nope |
| 19:20.36 | monteslu | how so? |
| 19:20.40 | kingkung | anyone have any experience with in constructing views by passing attributeSets ? |
| 19:20.43 | Cedric2 | Java has always worked better and been released earlier on Windows than anywhere else |
| 19:20.50 | Cedric2 | I still remember the Blackdown disaster |
| 19:20.50 | Disconnect | solaris |
| 19:20.59 | monteslu | Disconnect++ |
| 19:21.00 | kingkung | i.e. using the View(Context context, AttributeSet attrs) constructor |
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| 19:22.32 | fadden | Cedric2: Java worked better on Windows than Solaris? |
| 19:23.05 | Cedric2 | Always been better integrated to the desktop, Swing/AWT (ok that's a low bar) |
| 19:23.12 | Cedric2 | Hotspot came out on Windows and Solaris at the same time too |
| 19:23.27 | kingkung | AttributeSet error |
| 19:23.33 | Cedric2 | I'm not 100% positive but I don't think the JDK ever came out on Solaris first and Windows second |
| 19:23.38 | Cedric2 | at least Sun got that part right |
| 19:23.48 | kingkung | java.lang.ClassCastException: android.util.XmlPullAttributes |
| 19:23.53 | monteslu | They've been simultaenous since 1.4 |
| 19:24.13 | monteslu | your'e thinking of flash or something |
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| 19:24.31 | monteslu | or UnrealTournment 3 which I'm still waiting on as promised :) |
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| 19:34.48 | Disconnect | lol. "read the faq, its frequently updated" "Will Android run on <insert phone here>? No. There is currently only an Android SDK for the Windows, Mac OS X(intel), and Linux(i386) platforms. The SDK includes a software emulator on which you can test Android applications." ... not that frequently updated after all it seems. |
| 19:39.51 | stadler | Which part of that seems out-of-date? |
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| 19:42.29 | Disconnect | the part about it being wrong. "will android run on <insert phone here>?" "yes, for some values of phone. Currently only the G1 from T-mobile can use Android. <Sdk info>" |
| 19:44.02 | kingkung | lol |
| 19:44.29 | tomgibara | I've just published a small open source java library for performing periodic checks for new versions of an application: |
| 19:44.31 | tomgibara | http://www.tomgibara.com/android/veecheck/ |
| 19:44.32 | jasonlee | huh, is AndroidHttpClient not in android.jar? |
| 19:44.55 | tomgibara | It's no great shakes, and is a bit rushed, but might be useful to others |
| 19:44.59 | kingkung | who knows |
| 19:45.09 | kingkung | hey tom |
| 19:45.52 | tomgibara | kingkung: hi |
| 19:45.57 | kingkung | i have a question about the View(context,attributeSet) constructor |
| 19:46.02 | kingkung | dunno if u can help |
| 19:46.19 | kingkung | i'm trying to understand how to use it |
| 19:46.36 | tomgibara | I've not used it, but if you ask, someone else might be able to help |
| 19:46.44 | tomgibara | Its rare that you would call it yourself |
| 19:47.08 | kingkung | i want to call it to create views from external xmls (leveraging the logic used by the layoutinflater) |
| 19:47.44 | tomgibara | what do you mean by external xmls? You mean retrieved over the network say? |
| 19:47.48 | zhobbs | kingkung: yeah, you can pull info from the xml layout using that AttributeSet |
| 19:47.50 | kingkung | or a service |
| 19:47.50 | kingkung | yes |
| 19:48.02 | zhobbs | ohh...l |
| 19:48.10 | zhobbs | I thought you meant from layout files |
| 19:48.18 | kingkung | i keep getting a ClassCastException error on xml.asAttributeSet() |
| 19:48.41 | kingkung | http://groups.google.com/group/android-developers/browse_thread/thread/dd182573b0883804 |
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| 19:49.14 | kingkung | don't understand what i'm doing, if i'm doing anything wrong |
| 19:49.29 | kingkung | it's looking for a class called XmlPullAttributes |
| 19:49.40 | kingkung | but that class looks deprecated from the 0.9 diffs |
| 19:49.53 | kingkung | but i'm not sure if that's the problem or not |
| 19:50.05 | tomgibara | reading |
| 19:50.05 | gary| | hey all, im trying to connect to a server using a socket, but it keeps on throwing an unknownHostException. It works fine if I run the socket code normally, any ideas why? |
| 19:52.00 | tomgibara | kingkung: What exactly is throwing the exception? The asAttributeSet method? |
| 19:52.03 | kingkung | yes |
| 19:52.48 | pjv | tomgibara, thanks for publishing the veecheck thing, your site isn't loading atm here, but I'm sure it could be useful for many apps |
| 19:53.01 | pjv | is it Android specific? |
| 19:53.13 | tomgibara | pjv: Odd it is for me - yes android specific |
| 19:53.52 | pjv | could it cope with different sdk versions? |
| 19:54.40 | pjv | so that when 1.1 comes out, it lets you know this app was written for 1.0 (don't think Android does that in a clear way atm) |
| 19:55.12 | tomgibara | pjv: Yes, it can filter on the build id, model and device, in addition to the app. version info |
| 19:55.28 | pjv | I have your site now |
| 19:55.34 | jasta | gary|: how do you mean "run normally"? |
| 19:56.12 | tomgibara | writing a quick test app for XmlPullParser |
| 19:56.22 | jasta | i have some XmlPullParser code around |
| 19:56.40 | jasta | though i dont think i was using attributes at all, so nevermind :) |
| 19:56.43 | pjv | well thx tomgibara, sure it'll come in handy |
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| 20:05.48 | gary| | sorry jasta, was afk. By normal I mean in a normal java vm, not in the emulator |
| 20:06.13 | jasta | gary|: do you have special proxy or DNS considerations? |
| 20:06.27 | gary| | nope, nothing special |
| 20:06.29 | jasta | UnknownHostException is a DNS failure |
| 20:06.34 | kingkung | thanks tomgibara |
| 20:06.38 | gary| | i know, but it works fine in the java vm |
| 20:06.40 | jasta | or more generally, a name resolution failure |
| 20:06.46 | gary| | it just doesnt resolve in the emulator |
| 20:07.10 | jasta | gary|: try to hit the address in the browser |
| 20:07.19 | jasta | to confirm that its the emulators network stack thats causing the issue |
| 20:08.50 | gary| | the thing is it's not a http/s connection, an irc one |
| 20:10.48 | tomgibara | kingkung: I'm definitely seeing some |
| 20:10.53 | tomgibara | thing odd |
| 20:11.11 | tomgibara | but your code doesn't make sense to me either |
| 20:11.28 | jasta | gary|: so, the host resolution has to happen all the same |
| 20:11.41 | tomgibara | kingkung: you are pulling the whole document in, and then trying to obtain attributes from it |
| 20:11.51 | gary| | btw, it cant even connect to port 80 via the socket in the emulator |
| 20:12.15 | fadden | Does your app have the INTERNET permission? |
| 20:12.56 | tomgibara | kingkung: I would anticipate that it is failing because the END_DOCUMENT event has no attributes. |
| 20:13.30 | gary| | oh damn, forgot about that |
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| 20:17.38 | jasta | ahh yes, fadden has a point |
| 20:17.41 | jasta | gary|: check adb logcat ;) |
| 20:19.11 | kingkung | well i actually tried creating the view in each event iteration |
| 20:19.41 | kingkung | (put the try-catch block into the while loop) |
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| 20:19.47 | kingkung | and it threw an exception every time |
| 20:20.01 | kingkung | even when the attribute count was 4 (on event=START_TAG) |
| 20:20.40 | tomgibara | kingkung: As I anticipated, it's not the call to asAttributeSet which is throwing the cast exception (what made you think it was?) its the call to the view constructor |
| 20:21.24 | kingkung | tomgibara: yeah, i said that wrong |
| 20:21.36 | kingkung | tomgibara: but did you get it to successfully create a view? |
| 20:21.56 | kingkung | tomgibara: the constructor seems to be throwing an exception no matter what |
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| 20:26.48 | tomgibara | kingkung: Since Google have stubbed out the methods and I can't see the bytecode, I don't know why the View constructor is complaining, but you are aware that this code would only ever construct vanilla View objects? |
| 20:27.19 | kingkung | vanilla view objects as in without listeners/handlers? |
| 20:27.33 | jasta | tomgibara: just look at 0.9r1, it's pretty similar :) |
| 20:27.56 | kingkung | cuz textviews can have text in the xml |
| 20:28.25 | kingkung | and images can be passed through |
| 20:30.25 | tomgibara | jasta: good point! |
| 20:30.57 | wastrel | stub |
| 20:31.06 | tomgibara | kingkung: I mean that it will only construct View views, not ImageViews or TextViews or anything else. |
| 20:31.50 | kingkung | yeah, this isn't final code |
| 20:32.06 | kingkung | i will have a switch statement that calls the correct constructor |
| 20:33.50 | jasta | tomgibara: thats what ive been doing :) |
| 20:36.26 | ttuttle | greetings |
| 20:38.28 | gary| | gah, this still isnt work. I added the permission to the manifest, now it just sits there and the log says activity timed out |
| 20:51.14 | umdk1d3 | hangs out in sjc airport |
| 20:51.51 | Disconnect | with a g1? |
| 20:52.47 | umdk1d3 | with a laptop |
| 20:53.43 | Disconnect | :( |
| 20:56.18 | gary| | any ideas why trying to open a socket connection freezes my app :( |
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| 20:56.30 | gary| | i added the uses-permission and now it does that |
| 20:56.39 | gary| | before it would just say unknown host |
| 20:56.46 | jasta | gary|: did you add uses-permission before <application> (outside of it) |
| 20:56.53 | jasta | thats a really common mistake because its so poorly documented |
| 20:56.53 | gary| | yeah |
| 20:56.55 | romainguy | gary|: are you blocking the UI thread? |
| 20:57.16 | jasta | oh yes, obviously, romainguy is right. you can't starve the main thread. |
| 20:57.18 | gary| | layout is set before i open the connection |
| 20:57.27 | jasta | doesn't matter, you can't ever starve the main thread. |
| 20:57.39 | gary| | so i need to open the socket as another thread? |
| 20:57.44 | romainguy | that's right |
| 20:58.14 | jasta | gary|: there are lots of examples of this in ApiDemos and android-apps |
| 20:58.18 | fadden | You might be able to swing a non-blocking connect, but it's easier to use a "worker" thread all things considered. |
| 21:00.29 | romainguy | http://mrdoob.com/lab/youtube/superHD/ \o/ |
| 21:02.23 | umdk1d3 | ROFL @ utube |
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| 21:07.57 | jasta | romainguy: i noticed you used thread priority in your Photostream app, do you know if that's implemented well on Android's kernel? |
| 21:09.10 | romainguy | it is, if you use the Process.setThreadPriority() API |
| 21:09.18 | pjv | how can I change a preference's summary (in a PreferenceActivity) after onCreate()? |
| 21:09.40 | pjv | I am doing pref.setSummary(...) but nothing changes in the UI |
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| 21:21.31 | pjv | The only thing I can find is the AdvancedPreferences sample, but they use the two summaries of a CheckBoxPreference to switch |
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| 21:27.10 | jasta | i have a stupid Java question... |
| 21:27.48 | jasta | is it legal and wise to store an exception from a catch block to be thrown later outside that block? |
| 21:28.05 | Cedric2 | You mean wrapping exceptions? |
| 21:28.09 | jasta | no |
| 21:28.34 | jasta | i am attempting to bind to a port within a range, but i just keep trying until i exhaust every port in the range |
| 21:28.42 | jasta | if i exhaust, i throw the last bind exception i got |
| 21:29.05 | jasta | so it would be a look where i catch the exception and store it to last, then outside the loop throw last; |
| 21:29.13 | Cedric2 | This particular situation sounds reasonable, the overall idea... not |
| 21:29.30 | jasta | how do you mean? |
| 21:29.53 | Cedric2 | When you catch an exception and you don't want to throw it, you usually wrap it and bubble up a higher level exception |
| 21:30.04 | Cedric2 | you usually never throw the deep exception further down |
| 21:31.09 | jasta | well if my situation sounds reasonable, how should i accomplish this? |
| 21:31.16 | jasta | syntactically it seems legal. |
| 21:31.28 | jasta | at least, javac seems to think so |
| 21:31.43 | Cedric2 | Store the latest exception you had and after a certain number, throw it |
| 21:31.46 | fadden | It's legal; it's just a little funky to see an exception stack trace that isn't from the point of the throw. |
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| 21:32.12 | Cedric2 | Even in your situation, you might want to throw a higher level exception |
| 21:32.19 | jasta | Cedric2: i could implement the tail part of my loop in the catch block |
| 21:32.22 | Cedric2 | such as "Couldn't find a free port between 8000 and 8800" |
| 21:32.43 | jasta | yes, possibly a better idea |
| 21:34.13 | Cedric2 | Typically, exception wrapping is performed at the boundaries of domains |
| 21:34.21 | jasta | i think i have a better strategy anyway |
| 21:35.13 | Cedric2 | Note that you can create a ServerSocket on port 0 and the JDK will find a free port for you |
| 21:35.19 | jasta | i know that |
| 21:35.32 | jasta | i want a predictable range on purpose |
| 21:35.44 | Cedric2 | Ok |
| 21:36.04 | jasta | i think there is a particular exception for address already in use |
| 21:36.28 | jasta | and i could just catch that so that any unexpected exception will abort execution immediately |
| 21:36.34 | jasta | so no need to try a bunch of ports that all wont work |
| 21:36.52 | pjv | found a bug about the preferences I was talking about above |
| 21:36.53 | jasta | then if that fails, use a special exception that just says "Address in use for all ports between x and y" |
| 21:37.42 | pjv | some unreliable behaviour with PreferenceScreen.setSummary(..) |
| 21:40.47 | Terdhex | Hi All, dos anybody have an email sample application for 0.9 or 1.0? |
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| 21:51.14 | pjv | is terrible at filing bug reports |
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| 21:52.37 | Disconnect | is good at it, you should send me a g1 and tell me what the bug is, i'll file it. |
| 21:53.22 | benley | fishes out a g1 that can't run the current os anymore and wonders what to do with it |
| 21:53.22 | jasta | has an embarrassingly long rap sheet on the issue list :) |
| 21:57.04 | Disconnect | benley: older hw rev? |
| 21:57.10 | benley | yeah. |
| 21:57.30 | Disconnect | save it a few years, then donate it to a museum. (no, seriously.) or ebay it for $1k+. |
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| 21:57.44 | Disconnect | or port android over to the old hw |
| 21:58.02 | f00f- | benley: you have a Sooner? |
| 21:58.16 | benley | yeah |
| 21:58.33 | f00f- | it reminds me of the blackberry bold |
| 21:58.39 | f00f- | abusrdly tiny screen! |
| 21:58.43 | f00f- | 320x240 ? |
| 21:58.47 | benley | I'm not selling any of these, I'm pretty sure that would be a rather direct violation of some sort of rules |
| 21:59.21 | Disconnect | prolly |
| 22:00.37 | Disconnect | doesn't run the new os like its not ported, or like its just got some serious compatibility issue? (too low-res, or no reasonable input method, etc) |
| 22:00.55 | benley | not enough ram, etc |
| 22:01.29 | Disconnect | ah :( |
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| 22:07.07 | gary| | nn |
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| 22:25.47 | herriojr | kingkung: there are two different parsers that are used android.content.res.XmlBlock$Parser and KXmlParser |
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| 22:26.43 | herriojr | KXmlParser is the default you get from XmlPullParserFactory.newInstance() |
| 22:27.08 | herriojr | and the primer is from getResources.getLayout() |
| 22:27.30 | f00f- | interesting |
| 22:27.41 | f00f- | not using MXPP1 |
| 22:27.42 | romainguy | benley fishes out a g1 that can't run the current os anymore and wonders what to do with it << I have a bunch of those ^^ |
| 22:27.49 | f00f- | kxml isn't bad from the benches i've seen |
| 22:27.59 | jasta | romainguy: why can't it run the current OS? |
| 22:28.25 | romainguy | bunch of reasons :) |
| 22:28.45 | jasta | like what? :) |
| 22:29.24 | chouman82 | quick question |
| 22:29.25 | benley | old hardware. |
| 22:29.40 | chouman82 | if i want to open a brwoser to a specific url within an activity |
| 22:29.48 | herriojr | so it seems that kxml is doing some type of illegal cast when you pass it into Xml.asAttributeSet() |
| 22:30.09 | herriojr | what are the xml parsers that implement the XmlPullParser interface? |
| 22:30.10 | chouman82 | don't i just do Intent(Intent.ACTION_WEV_SEARCH, "http:www.google.com")? |
| 22:30.17 | chouman82 | and then start the activity with the intent? |
| 22:30.17 | f00f- | http://www.google.com/ |
| 22:30.25 | jasta | chouman82: no, just fire an intent with data http://www.wherever.com/ |
| 22:30.28 | jasta | no need to make it a search |
| 22:30.33 | romainguy | ACTION_VIEW |
| 22:30.36 | chouman82 | oh ok |
| 22:30.37 | romainguy | not WEB_SEARCH |
| 22:30.40 | chouman82 | wat's the web search for then |
| 22:30.46 | jasta | chouman82: for doing web searches |
| 22:30.53 | chouman82 | haha |
| 22:30.53 | chouman82 | ok |
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| 22:33.32 | herriojr | hence the error java.lang.ClassCastException: android.util.XmlPullAttributes |
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| 22:40.21 | herriojr | so some how the two different pull parsers are incompatible when converting to an attributeset, and it has to do with kxml using a deprecated class |
| 22:40.27 | herriojr | was this meant to not work? |
| 22:40.41 | Cedric2 | It's pretty common for XML parsers to cause classloading problems when they are on the classpath |
| 22:42.00 | herriojr | how would I go about removing it from the classpath? It isn't something I implement |
| 22:43.25 | herriojr | I'm assuming XmlPullAttributes is incompatible being cast to an AttributesSet, which is the only thing I can think of |
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| 22:44.17 | herriojr | *AttributeSet |
| 22:46.12 | herriojr | did Google purposely not want views to be created from XML not stored in the res/layout directory? |
| 22:46.13 | tomgibara | romainguy: The documentation states that a URL can be passed to WEB_SEARCH to open the site |
| 22:46.25 | tomgibara | I tried it and the browser died with a NPE |
| 22:46.32 | romainguy | then the documentation is wrong :) |
| 22:47.36 | tomgibara | :) Yeah I guessed that when it died - perhaps it was only half decommisioned |
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| 22:48.01 | herriojr | well, nvm, there's always the round-about-way of building it yourself from xml |
| 22:48.12 | herriojr | it's just a pain to reinvent the wheel :) |
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| 22:55.09 | herriojr | where do I submit bugs? |
| 22:55.28 | f00f- | issue tracker |
| 23:01.20 | chouman82 | did they take out LocationManager.getCurrentLocation? |
| 23:03.45 | cbeust_ | No, you get the location manager differently now |
| 23:03.50 | cbeust_ | don't have the API handy though |
| 23:04.02 | pjv | heat, http://code.google.com/p/android/issues/list |
| 23:04.05 | f00f- | getSystemService(LOCATION_SERVICE) |
| 23:04.05 | zhobbs | chouman82: yes, you need to register a location listener now |
| 23:04.06 | f00f- | or something |
| 23:04.11 | cbeust_ | There you go |
| 23:04.45 | pjv | *heat -> herriojr |
| 23:05.55 | chouman82 | what provider would i use with the requestUpdatlocation? |
| 23:06.48 | zhobbs | whichever one you want |
| 23:12.43 | jasta | ironically, using aoss emulator -audio-out oss is the most reliable way i've found to use audio with the emulator :) |
| 23:13.09 | jasta | forcing it to use OSS then emulating OSS with an ALSA wrapper |
| 23:13.36 | jasta | for some reason -audio-out alsa does not work well. if any other program is using alsa at the time it won't open. if the emulator opens first, no other player can open it. |
| 23:13.39 | jasta | it gets an exclusive lock for some reason |
| 23:13.44 | jasta | with aoss it can't |
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| 23:48.32 | jasta | hey Dougie187 |
| 23:49.38 | Dougie187 | hey jas |
| 23:49.43 | Dougie187 | jasta: |
| 23:49.44 | Dougie187 | ... |
| 23:49.50 | Dougie187 | hows it going? |
| 23:53.29 | zhobbs | what is the folder /data/data/<package>/app_thumbnails for? |
| 23:58.04 | jasta | good ;) |
