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| 01:01.23 | mohbana | any idea when android is due in the uk? |
| 01:02.13 | f00f- | couple of months |
| 01:05.33 | snadge | my flatmate loaded android onto his htc tytn ii |
| 01:06.04 | snadge | its a little bit buggy as one would expect.. but for the most part, it works |
| 01:06.43 | snadge | i wonder if android is going to be ported to existing phones.. in a supported way, or whether they will always remain unofficial projects |
| 01:07.03 | umdk1d3 | well everything will be opensourced |
| 01:07.31 | umdk1d3 | so i suppose you could write whatever you need to hack it onto your device |
| 01:07.31 | snadge | of course, so the decision is left mainly to the mobile phone manufacturers themselves.. as to whether they will port a new operating system to existing phones.. and my guess is, they will not want to do this |
| 01:07.39 | umdk1d3 | however, some handware isnt up to the job |
| 01:08.12 | umdk1d3 | for example, the n810 doesnt have a good-enough framebuffer |
| 01:08.21 | umdk1d3 | which is why it only runs m3 iirc |
| 01:08.27 | snadge | yeah, so my guess is.. things like android on tytn ii.. will remain an "enthusiast" project which lands you smack bang in the middle of "unsupported" territory ;) |
| 01:09.10 | snadge | but no doubt, these community projects will continue to improve anyway.. potentially even to the point where you could discard windows mobile from that phone entirely |
| 01:09.17 | umdk1d3 | true |
| 01:09.32 | umdk1d3 | the bootloader is the hardest part probably |
| 01:09.44 | umdk1d3 | getting it just right without completely bricking the device |
| 01:09.47 | snadge | yeah at the moment, he has it stored on an SD card |
| 01:09.57 | umdk1d3 | right now doesnt it just "replace" winmo without actually power cycling the device? |
| 01:10.04 | snadge | and he has to double click the boot loader from within winmo |
| 01:10.08 | umdk1d3 | yea :/ |
| 01:10.14 | umdk1d3 | which make sense, its the first step |
| 01:10.24 | umdk1d3 | and bootloader stuff is hard and custom work usually |
| 01:10.40 | snadge | well i was assuming as this project matures to the point where its more stable |
| 01:10.54 | snadge | that you'll be able to install it in place of winmo |
| 01:11.01 | snadge | maybe even dual boot, that would be cool ;) |
| 01:11.12 | umdk1d3 | lol dual boot cell phones |
| 01:11.34 | snadge | yeah.. turn it off, turn it on.. and it asks "winmo or android" :p |
| 01:11.59 | snadge | like grub |
| 01:14.33 | Dougie187 | what a waste of time though. |
| 01:14.44 | Dougie187 | if you could use something else, why would you touch winmo? |
| 01:15.06 | snadge | simple.. one is supported by your phone provider, one isnt |
| 01:15.18 | snadge | like anyone who dual boots windows with linux |
| 01:16.02 | Dougie187 | noone dual boots windows because the computers don't come with linux on them. |
| 01:16.08 | snadge | chances are, winmo has an application or something you need which android doesnt |
| 01:16.09 | Dougie187 | they dual boot because they can't run stuff they want on linux. |
| 01:16.26 | Dougie187 | i don't think anyone would find dual booting a cell phone to be useful enough to do that though |
| 01:16.30 | f00f- | i got rid of linux :) |
| 01:16.33 | f00f- | i'm all XP now |
| 01:16.34 | umdk1d3 | =O |
| 01:16.38 | umdk1d3 | srsly? |
| 01:16.42 | f00f- | well i bought a new lappy |
| 01:16.43 | Dougie187 | lol f00f- your a loser. |
| 01:16.45 | f00f- | havent put linux on it |
| 01:16.48 | snadge | or the situation where somethings not working properly.. and you want to get some support.. you boot into winmo, and then ring up.. and pretend you dont have android on your phone (which is unsupported) |
| 01:16.56 | f00f- | i've spent 10 years using linux |
| 01:16.57 | Dougie187 | so you didn't get rid of linux, you just didnt get rid of xp. |
| 01:17.05 | snadge | if the phone comes with android and android is a supported platform for that phone.. theres is NO point in dual booting |
| 01:17.13 | f00f- | and it's still hit for the notebook/laptop industry |
| 01:17.17 | f00f- | although i have stringent requirements |
| 01:17.28 | f00f- | `it must not crash randomly after updates` being one of them |
| 01:18.01 | f00f- | do you think someone will try to run winmo on their android device? |
| 01:18.03 | umdk1d3 | <3 atheros wifi |
| 01:18.05 | Dougie187 | snadge: i still don't think it would be useful enough to try t odo. |
| 01:18.13 | f00f- | is it even possible ? |
| 01:18.20 | Dougie187 | who knows. |
| 01:18.26 | snadge | meaning that less people would be encouraged to try android on a phone where its not supported |
| 01:18.38 | umdk1d3 | hmm |
| 01:18.46 | snadge | i mean.. what kind of an IDIOT would replace their supported mobile phone platform.. with one which is unsupported, and have no choice to go back easily |
| 01:18.49 | umdk1d3 | well android is all java unless you provide some sort of emulation library |
| 01:19.13 | umdk1d3 | so doing os-emulation is pretty much out of the question on dalvik |
| 01:19.40 | Adamant | well there are mini-OS'es written for JVM |
| 01:19.56 | Adamant | but you can't do WIndows or whatever on it |
| 01:19.57 | snadge | the fact that you can try android, by booting into winmo and launching the boot loader.. is awesome, means people can try it.. without bricking their phone |
| 01:20.34 | snadge | but its of limited use if you wanted to use it more often than not.. and inconvenient that you have to boot into winmo first.. hence, a dual boot option not only makes sense.. would be awesome |
| 01:21.41 | snadge | its not going to happen though :) |
| 01:22.34 | snadge | im just going to buy a dream when they come out and be done with it.. im not going to stuff around trying to run android on things that its not supposed to |
| 01:22.39 | Dougie187 | i still don't see the use in dual booting. |
| 01:22.46 | Dougie187 | i think anyone who wants android will just go all out |
| 01:22.59 | Dougie187 | or leave the recovery option in their phone so they can flash it back to normal as needed. |
| 01:23.00 | Dougie187 | but ionno |
| 01:23.03 | snadge | unless it doesnt work 100% on that phone |
| 01:23.23 | snadge | in which case, i guess you woudln't be interested in using it |
| 01:23.36 | snadge | but maybe its an obscure function that you dont often use anyway |
| 01:23.56 | Dougie187 | I can't imagine a person dual booting a phone for one app though. |
| 01:24.01 | snadge | flashing back and forth is not a practical option |
| 01:24.04 | Dougie187 | as opposed to windows vs. linux on a laptop i could see it. |
| 01:24.09 | Dougie187 | no not flashing back and forth. |
| 01:24.17 | Dougie187 | flashing if you need to send your phone in for repair or something. |
| 01:24.22 | Dougie187 | otherwise leaving android on it. |
| 01:24.37 | snadge | yeah i dont see that .. especially on unsupported models |
| 01:24.44 | snadge | you're not going to leave android on it |
| 01:24.48 | snadge | unless it works perfectly |
| 01:24.55 | Dougie187 | thats why you leave the flashing method. |
| 01:24.59 | Dougie187 | so you can flash it back if you need to. |
| 01:25.06 | Dougie187 | defaults back to winmo |
| 01:25.12 | snadge | i guess.. then theres the "coolness" factor |
| 01:25.21 | Dougie187 | coolness? |
| 01:25.28 | snadge | booting into android, just for giggles .. or "because you can" |
| 01:25.34 | Dougie187 | dual booting doesn't have a coolness. |
| 01:25.35 | snadge | to show somebody something, or whatever |
| 01:25.42 | Dougie187 | well just boot the emulator on your comp |
| 01:25.51 | snadge | or to boast that your phone can boot into multiple operating systems |
| 01:25.56 | Dougie187 | or go buy a compatible phone. |
| 01:26.05 | snadge | hehe |
| 01:26.54 | snadge | triple boot with symbian for bonus points ;) |
| 01:27.08 | Dougie187 | if you can fit all that stuff on your phone. |
| 01:28.14 | snadge | i guess what i really need to know is.. if i buy a htc dream when im in the uk or usa in november |
| 01:28.25 | snadge | will i be able to use it in australia |
| 01:28.30 | Dougie187 | noone knows yet. |
| 01:28.48 | Dougie187 | you'll have to wait and see if they have it released in australia yet. |
| 01:28.54 | Dougie187 | or you could call tmobile and see after it comes out. |
| 01:28.58 | snadge | im assuming the answer is yes .. i mean, google is going on about how android is supposed to be fair and unlocked etc |
| 01:29.02 | Dougie187 | though they probably won't be able to help you. |
| 01:29.13 | Dougie187 | fair and unlocked? |
| 01:29.22 | Dougie187 | ive heard "open" |
| 01:29.30 | Dougie187 | unlocked is up to the carriers afaik. |
| 01:29.35 | snadge | well .. maybe the reporting on it has been confused |
| 01:29.48 | snadge | people confusing "open" with "unlocked" |
| 01:30.03 | Dougie187 | yeah |
| 01:30.05 | snadge | since they have no idea what open really means ;) |
| 01:30.24 | snadge | but i believe i read a statement saying that google doesnt want it to be locked into providers etc |
| 01:30.33 | snadge | that you should be able to freely change between network providers |
| 01:30.44 | Dougie187 | yeah, but i don't think that call is up to google alone. |
| 01:30.52 | Dougie187 | thats something you have to get the providers to agree to |
| 01:30.52 | snadge | it should be |
| 01:31.10 | Dougie187 | or else they won't sell your phones. |
| 01:31.20 | snadge | it should be a condition of using android that you're not under contract to any particular mobile phone network and have the ability to change |
| 01:31.41 | Dougie187 | yeah i can't imaging that happening. |
| 01:31.43 | snadge | but then they risk providers not using android |
| 01:32.00 | snadge | i personally think its wrong |
| 01:32.09 | Dougie187 | but thats a personal opinion. |
| 01:32.16 | snadge | what kind of business says.. okay, i'll sell you something.. but on the condition that you only buy from me, and you cant buy from anyone else for 2 years |
| 01:32.24 | Dougie187 | and definitely not how the carriers view business practicies. |
| 01:32.25 | snadge | that should be illegal |
| 01:32.45 | snadge | its anticompetetive.. and if its not illegal, at the very least its immoral |
| 01:33.00 | f00f- | skip the U.S. market and don't think back! :D |
| 01:33.21 | snadge | coming back to another point.. most phones, even if they are locked.. can be "unlocked" |
| 01:33.46 | snadge | whether thats legal or not is irrelevant .. if i can buy a tmobile in america, and then unlock it.. and use it in australia.. i will |
| 01:34.20 | unix_infidel | well, most of the first generation iphones made in the US were essentially shipped back to where they were made, china. |
| 01:34.31 | *** part/#android Dougie187 (n=doug@68.35.245.156) |
| 01:34.34 | unix_infidel | http://uk.youtube.com/user/GoogleDevelopers |
| 01:34.39 | unix_infidel | omfg, funniest talk ever. |
| 01:35.04 | snadge | iphones .. first or second gen.. can be unlocked though right? |
| 01:35.13 | snadge | in fact, as far as i understand, its even trivial to do |
| 01:35.40 | Adamant | first gen can be unlocked easilyt |
| 01:35.43 | unix_infidel | first generation i believe is fairly trivial, second generation i dont think has been done yet. |
| 01:35.44 | snadge | not that i would ever buy an iphone, which is why i cant speak authoritatively about them |
| 01:35.44 | Adamant | 3G cannot |
| 01:36.16 | Adamant | get an ITouch, they're pretty decent as a media player with "extras" |
| 01:36.17 | snadge | oh.. so theres a good chance that the tmobile wont be able to be unlocked then :( |
| 01:36.18 | Adamant | and no contract |
| 01:36.46 | snadge | i obviously cant buy it unless i can be sure it can be unlocked |
| 01:36.55 | snadge | even if theres a "legit" way to do it that costs money .. i'll consider that |
| 01:37.45 | unix_infidel | well, hopefully you wont need to "unlock" the android phone. |
| 01:37.58 | f00f- | unix_infidel: you were being sarcastic. you fool. you made me watch that! |
| 01:38.31 | unix_infidel | i have a feeling that the first generation handset will suck though. android itself is already pretty solid. |
| 01:38.41 | unix_infidel | f00f-: meh, it has it's funny parts. |
| 01:38.49 | unix_infidel | I totally agree on the rails stuf. |
| 01:38.51 | Adamant | unix_infidel: I'm not sure. HTC makes really good handsets |
| 01:39.07 | Adamant | unix_infidel: is that the DjangoCon one? |
| 01:39.11 | unix_infidel | Adamant: agreed, but will they make a good handset this time for an open source OS with no kickbacks? |
| 01:39.15 | unix_infidel | Adamant: yea. |
| 01:39.19 | Adamant | why not? |
| 01:39.28 | Adamant | they get paid for the phone, not the OS |
| 01:39.41 | Adamant | now they don't even have to license WinMo |
| 01:40.18 | unix_infidel | Adamant: right, they dont have a market edge, any OEM could work with google the next day and compete, do they have an incentive? maybe. |
| 01:40.36 | Adamant | WInMo is not a market edge |
| 01:40.43 | Adamant | everyone and their brother licenses it |
| 01:40.55 | Adamant | and not every OEM can produce a HTC quality phone |
| 01:41.04 | Adamant | in fact most can't even come close |
| 01:41.19 | unix_infidel | Adamant: we'll see, I'm cautiously optimistic. |
| 01:41.34 | Adamant | most of the competition for HTC will be downmarket |
| 01:41.47 | Adamant | cheaper and less featureful smartphones |
| 01:41.57 | unix_infidel | hope the pricing stays under 300-400. |
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| 01:42.20 | Adamant | high pricing for some model is fine, if you're getting a really awesome phone |
| 01:42.56 | unix_infidel | agreed, but there are a billion ways for this deal to screw the consumer over. |
| 01:43.16 | unix_infidel | as usual in this market segment. |
| 01:43.25 | Adamant | if they start screwing consumers they won't be able to differentiate themselves |
| 01:43.59 | Adamant | if you want a really nice phone run by a control freak company and carrier, the iPhone already exists |
| 01:44.51 | unix_infidel | i need a new phone pretty bad, i'll probably get an android phone regardless. |
| 01:45.30 | Adamant | if they don't keep the quality up on Android, then people will just keep buying WinMo since they can buy that already for less |
| 01:46.06 | unix_infidel | what's licensing cost for windows mobile like |
| 01:46.19 | Adamant | no idea |
| 01:46.43 | Adamant | probably more than getting support for using Android in a phone |
| 01:48.07 | Adamant | one thing I do hope is that Google gets better designers working on Android 2.0's look and feel |
| 01:48.47 | Adamant | I'm pretty much accepting at this point that the UI will not be as nice as the iPhone, except that I can actually type |
| 01:50.54 | Adamant | Google can do pretty good design when it wants to. |
| 01:53.27 | duey | <3 chrome |
| 01:53.29 | unix_infidel | meh, the design is functional enough. |
| 01:53.30 | Adamant | apologizes if I offended any lurking Android UI designers, I'm sure they worked hard |
| 01:54.16 | duey | whats wrong with the current android ui |
| 01:54.20 | duey | better than most |
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| 01:54.24 | unix_infidel | there's no way to say it's a couple years late, because we dont know when the design aspect was production ready. |
| 01:54.54 | Adamant | duey: it just doesn't look really visually appealing |
| 01:55.06 | Adamant | it's not bad |
| 01:55.11 | duey | so you would prefer a vista UI? |
| 01:55.15 | Adamant | it's definitely not as ugly as WinMo |
| 01:55.20 | duey | you dont wont to overkill the ui |
| 01:55.24 | Adamant | duey: think Apple, not MS |
| 01:55.33 | duey | because it takes your concentration away from the task |
| 01:55.43 | duey | sure but you cant blatently copy apple ui |
| 01:55.53 | Adamant | duey: right but you can do one as good |
| 01:56.21 | Adamant | anyway. UI gets really subjective and personal beyond stuff like efficency which you can quantify |
| 01:56.35 | unix_infidel | i think the usability principles are all there. |
| 01:56.48 | unix_infidel | the design stuff really is trivial, as long as the framework is as extensible as they say it is. |
| 01:57.11 | Adamant | unix_infidel: it's so trivial that only a handful of companies get it right |
| 01:57.44 | Adamant | making things look really nice is not easy. |
| 01:58.00 | unix_infidel | Adamant: well this isnt a company. this is a community of people doing what they want because they can. |
| 01:58.03 | Adamant | otherwise they'd pay good designers less. |
| 01:58.28 | Adamant | unix_infidel: right, I'm not talking about imposing one true UI/look |
| 01:58.36 | unix_infidel | google is counting on good designers contributing to the project. |
| 01:58.36 | Adamant | but the default one should be really nice |
| 01:58.54 | Adamant | unix_infidel: that's not a bright move |
| 01:59.10 | Adamant | most designers could give a shit about open source. they want to be paid |
| 01:59.39 | Adamant | they've happily work on open source if paid to do so |
| 01:59.46 | Adamant | *they'll |
| 01:59.50 | unix_infidel | really, that's why there are a bajillion different themes for firefox, windows xp, great open source applications that are well designed. |
| 02:00.02 | Adamant | ugh |
| 02:00.30 | unix_infidel | you create an open market coupled with a marketplace. you get incentive from both ends. |
| 02:00.41 | Adamant | most of those themes are craptastic. I don't believe in blocking people from loading them if they want, but that's not an excuse not to have a nice default theme |
| 02:01.08 | Adamant | and you'll notice Firefox 3 is heavily influenced by Safari's theme |
| 02:01.36 | Adamant | which was done by designers getting paid by a proprietary company |
| 02:01.40 | unix_infidel | Windows XP's theme is pretty crappy too. Once you hack together extensibility for something designers and engineers could potentially use everyday you are not without involvement. |
| 02:01.56 | SanMehat | Adamant: I've been doing open source since linux 0.99pl13. |
| 02:02.01 | SanMehat | Adamant: and I work on Android... |
| 02:02.30 | Adamant | SanMehat: as a designer? |
| 02:02.52 | SanMehat | Adamant: i do design parts of it. many do. |
| 02:03.04 | Adamant | UI-wise? |
| 02:03.18 | SanMehat | No, more the stuff under the hood. |
| 02:03.22 | Adamant | yeah. |
| 02:03.31 | SanMehat | or some of it... but as I said.. many people are involved with the design. |
| 02:04.12 | SanMehat | anyways, I only bring it up because I take exception to your comment about 'most designers not giving a shit about open source'... at least when it comes to the Android team.. I strongly disagree :) |
| 02:05.00 | Adamant | SanMehat: software designers and engineering type love open source. I'm one of those and I love it |
| 02:05.52 | gambler | <Adamant> most designers could give a shit about open source. they want to be paid |
| 02:06.06 | Adamant | but I have to admit that most open source UI's are crappy and that work with graphic/UI/usability people is necessary to make a good UI, and those people don't particularly care about open source |
| 02:06.17 | SanMehat | hang on, SIGWIFE |
| 02:06.19 | Adamant | not saying Android UI is crappy, it isn't |
| 02:06.34 | Adamant | it's probably about as good as Firefox's |
| 02:06.43 | Adamant | which is pretty good for open source |
| 02:07.16 | SanMehat | sorry back. |
| 02:07.28 | Adamant | gambler: I should have clarified that. I'm not taking about the usual software dev, but graphics types |
| 02:08.10 | Adamant | and I only know a handful of graphics types but none of them I have met care about that sort of stuff much if at all |
| 02:08.22 | SanMehat | you may want to discuss it with romainguy_ at some point :) |
| 02:08.41 | Adamant | ah, he can beat me for my comments then |
| 02:09.36 | f00f- | $SIG{'WIFE'} = undef; |
| 02:09.50 | unix_infidel | SanMehat: going to bug you by email, the on in your /whois ircname is valid? |
| 02:09.58 | unix_infidel | one* |
| 02:10.17 | Adamant | anyway, I think nobody's yet gotten around having to pay graphic/UI/usability people significant money to make them work on things happily. |
| 02:10.32 | Adamant | and to get really good ones. |
| 02:11.06 | yakischloba | last I checked the people working on android were getting paid |
| 02:11.11 | yakischloba | and the UI is pretty outstanding |
| 02:11.35 | yakischloba | seems to me that the difference between androids UI and the iphones is all personal preference |
| 02:12.07 | Adamant | yakischloba: I'm probably just being a big Apple-design fanboy spoiled baby |
| 02:12.26 | yakischloba | I thoroughly enjoy Apple's stuff |
| 02:12.33 | yakischloba | i'm a mac user and I wouldn't want it any other way |
| 02:12.39 | plusminus_ | I love the login screen |
| 02:12.43 | plusminus_ | (from android= |
| 02:12.44 | unix_infidel | yakischloba: as much as I agree that future iterations will have design and usability improvements, you cant rely on the project core to contribute to a project you've made available to the community to play with. |
| 02:12.44 | plusminus_ | ) |
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| 02:13.34 | SanMehat | Adamant: oh yeah.. i should have mentioned... they *do* pay me :) |
| 02:13.41 | yakischloba | shrug |
| 02:14.06 | yakischloba | I think you guys are overanalyzing something that you most likely haven't used for any extended period of time on a device yet |
| 02:14.13 | yakischloba | and of course neither have I |
| 02:14.15 | unix_infidel | well I should say you can rely on them, you just cant expect them to always have the best ideas for everyone. |
| 02:14.44 | unix_infidel | yakischloba: I think 90% of us are doing that, whether we like to admit it or not. |
| 02:14.54 | Adamant | yakischloba: that's true. this is mostly first impressions and me putzing around with the SDK |
| 02:14.59 | yakischloba | judge it when its been your daily phone for a month |
| 02:15.04 | Adamant | yup. |
| 02:15.16 | yakischloba | chances are what is going to be released on the phone is significantly different than the latest SDK anyways |
| 02:16.13 | gambler | where is jasta to do some bitch slapping when you need him |
| 02:16.16 | gambler | all I know is if you worked for me Adamant I'd be sending Terry around to your cubicle |
| 02:16.21 | unix_infidel | no video camera allowed at Developer Day today? |
| 02:16.22 | yakischloba | yeah seriously |
| 02:16.24 | gambler | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oU1jra7RKCQ |
| 02:17.05 | gambler | that vid is so f awesome |
| 02:17.10 | unix_infidel | lol. |
| 02:17.22 | SanMehat | gambler: re: |
| 02:17.24 | SanMehat | how you doibg man? |
| 02:18.03 | gambler | SanMehat, Im going crazy because the elliptical trainer I installed in my home gym is broken and the morons I paid 5K to for it are taking forever to fix it |
| 02:18.08 | plusminus_ | :-D |
| 02:18.08 | gambler | im on mad sick tilt right now over it |
| 02:18.36 | SanMehat | weak-sauce |
| 02:19.24 | gambler | whats that? |
| 02:19.50 | yakischloba | lol |
| 02:20.06 | Adamant | gambler: why would you pay 5k for an elliptical? |
| 02:20.17 | yakischloba | because its covered in diamonds |
| 02:20.21 | yakischloba | jealous! |
| 02:20.36 | Adamant | you could buy a Concept 2 gym grade rower or a gym grade Versaclimber for less |
| 02:20.37 | gambler | because I wanted a really good one...that wasnt supposed to break |
| 02:20.49 | Adamant | both of which will give you a better workout and not break |
| 02:20.59 | gambler | I also got a complete dumbell set with that |
| 02:21.02 | Adamant | ah |
| 02:21.20 | Adamant | I just use adjustable Oly dumbbells |
| 02:22.03 | gambler | I got those hexagonal ones...they are mostly for show though because I F ed up my elbow playing tennis |
| 02:22.09 | Adamant | ah |
| 02:23.04 | gambler | the adjustables are ok but I figured it would be a big pain to adjust them |
| 02:23.33 | plusminus_ | SensorManager.getSensors() returns 0 within the emulator ...? is that correct ? |
| 02:24.03 | Adamant | buy 3 cheap set, put good collars on them, and then use Oly plates for both your dumbbell and barbell |
| 02:24.11 | Adamant | much cheaper in the long run. |
| 02:24.36 | unix_infidel | agreed. |
| 02:25.05 | unix_infidel | i need to look into getting a weight vest too. used to be able to run an 8 minute mile after I trained with that thing. |
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| 02:25.35 | Adamant | unix_infidel: Vmax is good for max weight, and the SmartVest is good for comfortable lighter weights |
| 02:25.50 | Adamant | for running only you'd probably want a SmartVest |
| 02:26.34 | Adamant | those are the fancy ones, you can also redneck-rig a boxing weight vest for jogging and running but it won't be as comfortable |
| 02:27.00 | Adamant | they're more made for doing cathelstics |
| 02:27.08 | unix_infidel | Adamant: i usually do lighter weights for any jogging and and heavy weights for sprints. |
| 02:27.39 | Adamant | well Vmax goes up to 84pds and is designed for weight lifters and firefighters to get real use out of |
| 02:27.56 | yakischloba | you mean "calisthentics"? |
| 02:28.06 | yakischloba | calisthenics* |
| 02:28.08 | gambler | yakischloba, that diamond studded model sounds like pure sex :p |
| 02:28.28 | yakischloba | gambler: yeah man I figured you'd have been all over it. Mine is awesome. |
| 02:28.41 | yakischloba | gambler: it hasn't broken either ; |
| 02:28.42 | yakischloba | ;) |
| 02:28.48 | Adamant | whereas the Smartvest goes to 20 or 30 or 40 (I forget), but few people run over 20 pds anyway since it starts getting dangerous |
| 02:28.59 | Adamant | and it's much more comfortable and natural |
| 02:29.23 | Adamant | they're both adjustable so you can adjust them up and down within limits |
| 02:29.25 | yakischloba | hey if you want some extra weight to run with, take a desk job and start drinking a lot. |
| 02:29.30 | gambler | yakischloba, I need that equipment to deal with the mad tilt I experience every day doing you know what |
| 02:29.40 | Adamant | yakischloba: already done it, that's why I'm working out |
| 02:29.55 | yakischloba | heh |
| 02:30.13 | Adamant | and yeah I meant calisthenics |
| 02:30.20 | Adamant | just can't type today |
| 02:30.30 | unix_infidel | yakischloba: like lawyers? |
| 02:30.43 | yakischloba | sure |
| 02:30.51 | Adamant | unix_infidel: they do too much coke and meth |
| 02:31.00 | Adamant | weight doesn't stick around |
| 02:31.25 | unix_infidel | nor do they. |
| 02:34.16 | gambler | he went to shoot up |
| 02:34.27 | unix_infidel | must be one of those bay area nerds. |
| 02:34.38 | unix_infidel | a native. |
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| 02:35.00 | yakischloba | :/ |
| 02:35.28 | gambler | starts tying off |
| 02:39.47 | gambler | wasn this part of the theme from mallrats |
| 02:39.49 | gambler | http://cbs13.com/watercooler/selling.virginity.tuition.2.814271.html |
| 02:41.22 | *** join/#android ttuttle (n=tom@pdpc/supporter/student/gentoo.contributor.ttuttle) |
| 02:41.32 | ttuttle | greetings |
| 02:41.34 | *** join/#android Adamant_ (n=Adamant@c-98-244-152-196.hsd1.ga.comcast.net) |
| 02:42.07 | ttuttle | ahaberla1h, fadden, SanMehat, romainguy, romainguy_: ping |
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| 03:14.28 | gdsx | ttuttle: hey; have a question? |
| 03:16.44 | unix_infidel | where would one go if they had a question, is the android google group more active? |
| 03:17.35 | gambler | here is fine, there are plenty of knowledgeable people here. |
| 03:18.15 | gambler | I have a question actually, if I write OpenGL code in android, what are the chances that would auto-compile against JSR239 |
| 03:18.34 | gambler | It says the systems are not identical but similiar |
| 03:22.30 | f00f- | very little i would think |
| 03:22.34 | f00f- | if you abstract it enough, maybe |
| 03:22.44 | f00f- | but doesn't excessive abstraction hurt high-perf 3D stuff ;) |
| 03:24.06 | romainguy_ | gambler: well it's OpenGL ES 1.1 basically on Android |
| 03:24.38 | romainguy_ | but for instance you won't find many of the methods based on float/double parameters |
| 03:25.39 | gambler | ok. So the Canvas examples in Customised Component Examples is that OpenGL or something else |
| 03:26.10 | romainguy_ | Canvas is the 2D API |
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| 03:27.38 | gambler | ok I see. |
| 03:28.48 | gambler | romainguy, did you know about droiddraw.org? |
| 03:28.53 | romainguy_ | yes |
| 03:29.03 | snadge | is android going to upgrade to java 7? |
| 03:29.12 | gambler | I found that pretty handy |
| 03:29.20 | snadge | when it becomes available |
| 03:29.49 | plusminus_ | is there any info on java7 ? |
| 03:29.55 | plusminus_ | I think so |
| 03:30.18 | snadge | im looking forward to java 7 .. it will be 100% free, and the jnlp support will work with 64bit etc |
| 03:30.21 | plusminus_ | Android probably won't remain "as it is" |
| 03:30.47 | plusminus_ | Java rulez |
| 03:30.48 | snadge | so finally the "write once run anyware" paradigm.. might actually start to be slightly more truthful |
| 03:30.54 | plusminus_ | Java == Productivity |
| 03:31.14 | snadge | and we'll see equivalent functionality in mac/linux/windows .. and hopefully mobile platforms to |
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| 03:40.57 | Elijah | It's almost christmas gang! |
| 03:41.59 | Elijah | Unfortunately though, I have to wait for #2 Sprint to release me gPhone |
| 03:44.52 | snadge | meanwhile if anyone knows when i'll be able to use an android phone in australia any time soon.. please let me know |
| 03:44.56 | snadge | legit or otherwise ;) |
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| 03:46.54 | gambler | snadge, how could it be illegit |
| 03:48.38 | gambler | snadge, Three has a 3G $39 6GB/month deal. They will allow you to do it no contracts. so you can run any handset on mobile broadband. |
| 03:50.44 | unix_infidel | gambler: hopefully the pricing in the US is near as competetive. |
| 03:51.35 | unix_infidel | likely tmobile will launch 3g on the same date as the android release. |
| 03:52.42 | f00f- | get onewithout a plan |
| 03:52.52 | f00f- | *contract |
| 03:53.01 | f00f- | i pay $25/mo for my `unlimited` data plan |
| 03:53.08 | f00f- | i hear iphone lusers pay $30/mo ? |
| 03:53.10 | f00f- | for the same thing |
| 03:54.01 | unix_infidel | iphone users I believe are locked into buying a voice plan with data add on. |
| 03:54.13 | f00f- | yea |
| 03:54.13 | unix_infidel | (in the US) |
| 03:54.23 | unix_infidel | + all applicable taxes on BOTH services. |
| 03:54.29 | f00f- | elijah you better wait long and hard for sprint |
| 03:54.34 | f00f- | it's still bleeding at the knees |
| 04:07.46 | Elijah | f00f-: tell me more |
| 04:09.56 | f00f- | they need to get their act together |
| 04:09.59 | f00f- | in terms of service, etc. |
| 04:10.06 | f00f- | infra rollout for wimax |
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| 05:03.17 | Elijah | f00f-: i see, i am sure android will be succesful without that for now |
| 05:12.39 | f00f- | we'll see |
| 05:13.51 | snadge | gambler: i know that IF i can unlock a us based android phone.. i can use it in australia, with like you say, Three as an example |
| 05:14.16 | snadge | the question really is.. how difficult is it going to be to unlock the htc dream |
| 05:15.00 | snadge | because if its going to insist upon only connecting to tmobile (for example) .. then that is going to be of no use at all to anyone in australia |
| 05:18.43 | gambler | with google driving this, I have to assume they will be anti-simlocking |
| 05:19.04 | unix_infidel | gambler: not true, to get distribution they have to agree to some concessions. |
| 05:19.05 | f00f- | no 3G gabmler down there |
| 05:19.07 | snadge | thats what i thought.. but apparently not |
| 05:19.29 | gambler | f00f-, haha |
| 05:20.13 | snadge | im going to use htc and tmobile as examples.. but lets look at it this way.. htc will know how to unsimlock using their own phones.. its the mobile carriers, eg t-mobile.. that stipulate that the sim must be locked to their network |
| 05:20.44 | unix_infidel | snadge: the easier alternative is to just buy an unlocked dream and put android on it. |
| 05:20.47 | f00f- | no |
| 05:20.58 | snadge | yes.. but will there be "unlocked" dreams for sale |
| 05:21.02 | f00f- | the phone is locked to a network list of (MCC, MNC) tuplets |
| 05:21.06 | snadge | or will tmobile have exclusivity on that |
| 05:21.30 | gambler | unix_infidel, android is a game changer. they arent looking to suck up to these carriers |
| 05:21.45 | snadge | i dont care if i have to pay $2000 for the phone.. if it means i own it outright and its unlocked.. whether it will be an option to purchase them outright, i would like to know |
| 05:21.46 | gambler | maybe in the backwards U.S. cellular market but outside there |
| 05:21.49 | unix_infidel | gambler: we're all speculating, only the @'s know what's going on. |
| 05:21.51 | gambler | im skeptical |
| 05:21.56 | gambler | yep |
| 05:22.39 | snadge | i understand that locking into a network is done.. so that they can give you a cheaper phone initially.. and recoup the loss on that over time |
| 05:22.41 | duey | gambler, android isn't a game changer |
| 05:22.41 | gambler | f00f-, the phone is locked? |
| 05:22.42 | unix_infidel | there's certainly a market for an open well designed handset that works. |
| 05:22.49 | duey | its open, if someone wants to lock a phone down, they can |
| 05:22.55 | unix_infidel | if android fills that void, so be it. |
| 05:23.15 | f00f- | gambler the subsidized versions |
| 05:23.30 | gambler | duey, I think the philosophy of where mobiles in general are going is a game changer. We are moving to commodity platforms like i386 PCs instead of specialty devices |
| 05:23.32 | unix_infidel | gigaom, TC have all covered the challenges, it's up to google to respond, and they usually put a up a good fight. |
| 05:23.34 | snadge | what it sounds like .. is there will be no option to buy android based phones outright.. inititially.. until such time elapses and everyone has android phones |
| 05:23.37 | gambler | its just the nature of a scale economy |
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| 05:24.00 | gambler | duey, IBM PC was a massive game changer because it standardised so much |
| 05:24.21 | snadge | it also sounds like the US market is more draconian than others |
| 05:24.32 | duey | maybe, but I doubt you will find android running on an iphone :) |
| 05:24.37 | unix_infidel | always will be in some segments. |
| 05:24.46 | unix_infidel | too much profit to be had. |
| 05:25.00 | unix_infidel | but what do I know, i'm barely past the drinking age :-P |
| 05:25.03 | duey | IBM was a long time ago and they had pretty big market share |
| 05:25.03 | snadge | yes well come november.. things will change in washington |
| 05:25.09 | duey | the phone market share is spread |
| 05:25.10 | gambler | duey, true dat |
| 05:25.16 | snadge | google and microsoft have both invested a lot of money into barack obama :P |
| 05:25.23 | romainguy__ | http://www.canon.com/moon/en/ \o/ |
| 05:25.33 | duey | yeah if obama doesn't win ill never go to usa! |
| 05:25.41 | snadge | so america could become communist like the rest of europe ;) |
| 05:25.55 | duey | romainguy, was that ic of the moon taken with that camera? |
| 05:25.58 | duey | pic |
| 05:26.05 | romainguy__ | it's the new Canon 5D |
| 05:26.09 | romainguy__ | 3 years in the waiting |
| 05:26.13 | romainguy__ | *finally* |
| 05:26.21 | duey | own it yet? |
| 05:26.29 | romainguy__ | no it's been announced today |
| 05:26.36 | duey | how much does it cost |
| 05:27.23 | romainguy__ | $2,600 |
| 05:27.28 | duey | snadge, whats wrong with being less corrupt and free healthcare? |
| 05:27.33 | duey | not to bad |
| 05:28.05 | romainguy__ | argh |
| 05:28.08 | romainguy__ | 21 Mpixls |
| 05:28.10 | romainguy__ | Mpixels |
| 05:28.14 | romainguy__ | way too much :(( |
| 05:28.22 | duey | you will have to get a new computer |
| 05:28.30 | duey | lightroom might crash |
| 05:28.38 | romainguy__ | I have 8 GB of RAM :) |
| 05:28.43 | duey | only?!:D |
| 05:28.48 | romainguy__ | but that requires lots of storage |
| 05:28.52 | romainguy__ | and I need a bigger screen now ^^ |
| 05:28.56 | duey | haha |
| 05:29.00 | duey | quad 30'' |
| 05:29.26 | romainguy__ | only 3.9 images |
| 05:29.27 | snadge | duey: im a lefty liberal communist hippy myself.. i dont see the problem |
| 05:29.28 | romainguy__ | image/s |
| 05:29.30 | romainguy__ | L(( |
| 05:29.45 | duey | snadge, oh good :) |
| 05:29.47 | snadge | i think most people who support the concept of free software, generally are |
| 05:30.30 | duey | imo usa is less free than many |
| 05:30.42 | duey | I think things like free healthcare allow people to be more free |
| 05:30.49 | duey | and less tied down to corperates |
| 05:31.02 | snadge | you kidding.. the US is so free, they can invade other countries without even consulting the rest of the world ;) |
| 05:31.09 | duey | yeah well |
| 05:31.18 | gambler | free healthcare is gay. try living in canada and waiting forever to see a doctor. trust me its not fun. |
| 05:31.31 | duey | at least you get to see one |
| 05:31.37 | snadge | well maybe canada should take lessons from the free healthcare in australia |
| 05:31.37 | romainguy__ | works in France :) |
| 05:32.03 | duey | waiting for an hour to see a doctor aint that bad |
| 05:32.11 | snadge | i think its funny.. australia.. like the most insignificant english speaking country on the planet.. except for maybe new zealand |
| 05:32.18 | romainguy__ | wow 30 fps 1080p video recording |
| 05:32.18 | snadge | and even new zealand has free health care |
| 05:32.20 | duey | and also its not like if you are dying they leave you there |
| 05:32.24 | duey | im from nz |
| 05:32.28 | gambler | i think that the market needs to be more competitive. Let more companies practice medicine and publish statistics on their effectiveness |
| 05:32.34 | duey | die in a fire snadge :D! |
| 05:32.35 | umdk1d3 | romainguy__: you seen the RED camera? |
| 05:32.42 | romainguy__ | umdk1d3: nope? |
| 05:32.47 | snadge | lol duey.. i have a youtube video to show you, one sec |
| 05:32.48 | umdk1d3 | ooh! /me links |
| 05:32.54 | duey | invasion ? |
| 05:33.13 | snadge | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZdVHZwI8pcA |
| 05:33.15 | umdk1d3 | romainguy__: first post there http://homepage.mac.com/maxwax11/iblog/ |
| 05:33.30 | gambler | snadge, the australian version of health care I think works pretty well. |
| 05:33.35 | snadge | its titled "Beached Whale" .. and its hilarious :p |
| 05:33.41 | gambler | snadge, thats not purely free though |
| 05:33.54 | romainguy__ | umdk1d3: ah yes, well the 5D records 1080p at 30 fps through the lens :) |
| 05:34.01 | snadge | its free if you're poor |
| 05:34.15 | snadge | but you have to pay for it kinda if you make some decent coin |
| 05:34.18 | snadge | and in that situation.. who cares? |
| 05:34.26 | duey | if i go to a doctor but not much |
| 05:34.29 | duey | $15 |
| 05:34.30 | duey | er |
| 05:34.33 | duey | i pay to see a doctor |
| 05:34.37 | duey | $15 |
| 05:34.42 | duey | GP that is |
| 05:34.47 | snadge | even on 70k.. i can go to a doctor and get bulk billed.. ie, free consultation |
| 05:34.52 | gambler | thats smart because some people are hypochondriacs and abuse the free visit system |
| 05:34.56 | gambler | duey, what country? |
| 05:34.58 | duey | nz |
| 05:34.58 | umdk1d3 | romainguy__: true but the red just looks insane http://www.red.com/cameras |
| 05:35.05 | romainguy__ | it does :) |
| 05:35.19 | snadge | duey: tell me what you think of beached whale :p |
| 05:35.23 | romainguy__ | just a tad more annoying to travel with ^^ |
| 05:35.25 | duey | its not playing properly |
| 05:35.38 | duey | sec ill try another browser chrome fails it on utube sometimes |
| 05:36.46 | f00f- | sux that it can't record in RAW |
| 05:36.49 | f00f- | that's a no go |
| 05:36.58 | romainguy__ | f00f-: what can't? |
| 05:37.07 | umdk1d3 | f00f-: the RED does 24fps RAW ;) |
| 05:37.09 | f00f- | the new canon 20 mpx |
| 05:37.13 | f00f- | umdk1d3: i'm sold |
| 05:37.22 | romainguy__ | you mean RAW video? |
| 05:37.25 | f00f- | yep |
| 05:37.37 | romainguy__ | it's not a video camera :) |
| 05:37.44 | romainguy__ | so it kinda makes sense that it's not doing that |
| 05:37.54 | romainguy__ | it probably doesn't have the memory and CPU to do it anyway |
| 05:37.57 | duey | snadge, seen this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8AIppqNePdM |
| 05:38.05 | f00f- | but it does MPEG-4 on the fly :P |
| 05:38.24 | romainguy__ | that's a lot less data to write ^^ |
| 05:39.07 | umdk1d3 | mmm mpeg4 /shudder/ |
| 05:39.30 | umdk1d3 | cant stand single pass encodes lol |
| 05:39.31 | romainguy__ | sucks I can't take this new 5D with me on my vacation at the end of the week ^^ |
| 05:39.40 | f00f- | where you going romain |
| 05:39.51 | romainguy__ | roadtrip in the southwest |
| 05:40.14 | f00f- | oh my |
| 05:40.14 | f00f- | ltns |
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| 05:40.22 | umdk1d3 | ooh cacti |
| 05:40.24 | f00f- | gonna eat some cajun chicken |
| 05:57.17 | snadge | duey: hehe |
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| 06:26.42 | gdsx | romainguy__: you shoot Canon? |
| 06:27.15 | romainguy__ | I do |
| 06:29.00 | gdsx | cool; what do you shoot with? |
| 06:29.40 | romainguy__ | currently a 30D |
| 06:29.55 | gdsx | ::nod:: |
| 06:30.01 | gdsx | what sorts of lenses? |
| 06:30.25 | romainguy__ | 50mm f/1.4, 17-40mm f/4 L, 24-70mm f/2.8 L and 70-200mm f/4 L |
| 06:31.07 | gdsx | eenteresteenk |
| 06:31.12 | gdsx | do you shoot a lot of people? |
| 06:31.18 | romainguy__ | not really |
| 06:31.24 | romainguy__ | mostly landscapes |
| 06:31.39 | romainguy__ | you can see my photos at http://flickr.com/photos/romainguy |
| 06:33.02 | f00f- | romain what are your travel lenses |
| 06:33.12 | romainguy__ | the ones I just said :) |
| 06:33.24 | f00f- | ALL ? |
| 06:33.27 | f00f- | what more do you have then |
| 06:33.32 | romainguy__ | that's all |
| 06:33.39 | f00f- | oh so you travel loaded :P |
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| 06:33.44 | romainguy__ | hehe |
| 06:35.32 | gdsx | romainguy__: very nice |
| 06:40.43 | duey | this convo doesnt look good out of context |
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| 12:47.44 | acemo | is it possible to download the api or other documentation for android for offline viewing? |
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| 13:01.13 | tric | acemo: in your sdk directory /docs |
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| 14:00.47 | hemp77 | hi guys. what is the best way to push an event (e.g. "start syncing") to an android device? |
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| 14:56.47 | *** topic/#android by morrildl -> Anyone finding the apps-for-android project to be useful? http://code.google.com/p/apps-for-android/ |
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| 15:02.29 | hemp77 | morrildl: it would be more useful, if more apps (for example the wiki) were ported to the new 0.9 sdk. |
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| 15:09.00 | umdk1d3 | challenging, but the truth: http://androidguys.com/?p=1619 |
| 15:10.17 | pjv | here here, albeit a bit opportunistic |
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| 15:58.25 | anno^da- | http://androidguys.com/wp-content/uploads/dream_fantasy.jpg |
| 15:58.42 | anno^da- | please get this phone out with Android :-) |
| 16:01.59 | loke | anno^da-: what is that? a fan-made render? |
| 16:02.34 | loke | I have to admit, it looks sleek, even though my dream phone would have some face buttons (and a retractable keyboard is an absolute must) |
| 16:03.39 | anno^da- | loke: It is the new HTC Touch HD |
| 16:03.48 | anno^da- | With Windows Mobile :/ |
| 16:03.54 | loke | anno^da-: hmm... is there a keyboard hiding underneath? |
| 16:04.12 | anno^da- | I cant believe they will release the leaked Dream we know from the pics |
| 16:04.32 | anno^da- | hmm dont know let me see |
| 16:04.44 | loke | anno^da-: sorry... I've always liked the HTV hardware, but the windows ce based os... man... it's such a travesty. I had the misfortune of having to use a motorola one for a few weeks when I was on a trip. |
| 16:04.52 | loke | man, what a total didaster that thing is |
| 16:05.13 | loke | anno^da-: why can't you brlieve? |
| 16:06.43 | unix_lappy | the only thing stopping it from being on the touch HD is drivers. |
| 16:06.49 | anno^da- | After all the great designs in the last years I dont believe that they will start the whole Android "project" with such an ugly device. |
| 16:07.13 | anno^da- | Well let me say I dont want to believe it. |
| 16:07.17 | loke | I think the design is qite nice, except for the botton blob with the buttons |
| 16:07.31 | anno^da- | Well it doesnt look polished at all. |
| 16:07.47 | loke | well that's true... Are you saying that you think it's a prototype enclosure? |
| 16:08.45 | anno^da- | Well I really hope so |
| 16:08.53 | anno^da- | So Im out now ;) |
| 16:09.21 | loke | hah... well, we still have a few days to hope |
| 16:09.27 | loke | before our dreams are shattered |
| 16:10.21 | romainguy___ | all I can say is that I stopped using my iPhone a while ago :)) |
| 16:10.29 | anno^da- | :D |
| 16:10.31 | romainguy___ | Android's features are definitely, in my opinion, worth it |
| 16:10.36 | loke | romainguy_I have never really been impressed with the ihpone |
| 16:11.05 | anno^da- | romainguy_: But the normal consumer will look at the design. Or not? So is it final? :D |
| 16:11.10 | loke | a few colleagues have it, and I must say that seeing them try to use IM-apps, or IRC-clients or SSH-clients is quite tragic |
| 16:11.28 | loke | the phone rings, or they want to check the address book and they lose all connections |
| 16:11.35 | romainguy___ | anno^da-: We haven't announced any phone yet :) |
| 16:11.57 | loke | one of them use an app that has some sync functionality... of course he can't do anything else while the damn thing syncs |
| 16:12.18 | loke | anno^da-: romainguy_ works for HTC? |
| 16:12.37 | anno^da- | romainguy_: Grrr :D |
| 16:12.43 | romainguy___ | loke: no, for Google |
| 16:12.56 | loke | romainguy_: oh |
| 16:13.10 | anno^da- | romainguy_: I'm looking forwar to the day you can tell us :D After the release :-) |
| 16:13.10 | loke | so he's not in taiwan then :-) |
| 16:14.02 | loke | romainguy_: care to tell us when there is a new SDK coming out? The current version odesn't run on a 32-bit intel mac |
| 16:14.18 | romainguy___ | loke: on a 32 bits intel mac?? |
| 16:14.21 | loke | (my macmini at home is 32-bit) and it's incredibly unstable on my macbook air |
| 16:14.26 | loke | yes |
| 16:14.29 | romainguy___ | I use a 32 bits Intel Mac to work on Android |
| 16:14.30 | loke | the Core Duo based ones |
| 16:14.37 | loke | well, it doesn't work at all on mine |
| 16:14.46 | romainguy___ | what doesn't work? |
| 16:14.53 | loke | works on the air (albeit unstably), so I assumed it was because of the 32-bitness |
| 16:14.59 | loke | hold, i'll tell you |
| 16:15.15 | anno^da- | I#m using it everyday on a 32 intel mac and it is stunning stable |
| 16:15.26 | loke | anno^da-: macmini? |
| 16:15.34 | romainguy___ | apart from the emulator, there's nothing native in the SDK |
| 16:15.45 | loke | well, it was the emulator that failed |
| 16:15.46 | romainguy___ | (and adb and aapt :) |
| 16:15.47 | yakischloba | I use a Macbook 13", it runs fine |
| 16:15.47 | romainguy___ | ah |
| 16:15.50 | loke | hold. i'm re-downloading |
| 16:15.56 | romainguy___ | that's why I wouldn't know, I don't use the emulator anymore |
| 16:16.36 | unix_lappy | romainguy_you just push to the device to test? |
| 16:16.38 | loke | romainguy_: not even fr development? are you saying that there is a develpmemt workflow to the real phone that is so smooth that you don't need the emulator? |
| 16:16.51 | unix_lappy | that would be amazing. |
| 16:16.56 | loke | unix_lappy: agreed |
| 16:17.13 | loke | when I did J2ME development, the emulator was a complete must |
| 16:17.14 | romainguy___ | loke: that's right |
| 16:17.27 | loke | romainguy_: wow... wired via USB? |
| 16:17.28 | romainguy___ | I've been working on the framework and apps without the emulator for 6 months now |
| 16:17.41 | unix_lappy | nerds commence salivating. |
| 16:18.04 | loke | romainguy_so... for a hello world app, how long time from pressing build until you have the app running on the device? |
| 16:18.55 | loke | Can I plaste 7 lines? or can someone suggest a pastebot? |
| 16:18.58 | Cedric2 | You can do on the device everything you can do on the emulator, it just takes a few seconds more to start at worse |
| 16:19.04 | romainguy___ | it takes 4 or 5 seconds on my MacPro |
| 16:19.18 | loke | romainguy_: woah |
| 16:19.27 | anno^da- | loke: for me too |
| 16:19.38 | anno^da- | max of 6 seconds |
| 16:19.40 | loke | romainguy_: that's sweet... Can I assume it'll work that way for me as well once I get the commercial device? |
| 16:20.04 | romainguy___ | it depends on your computer for the compile time |
| 16:20.11 | romainguy___ | but it's a fairly smooth process |
| 16:20.37 | anno^da- | So I'm out now. :-) Have a nice day guys. |
| 16:20.40 | hemp77 | romainguy___: when we will be able to use apps like mail and a calender with the sdk? |
| 16:20.43 | loke | here |
| 16:20.44 | loke | http://paste.lisp.org/display/67011 |
| 16:20.53 | loke | that's the error I get when trying to run on my macmini (10.5.5) |
| 16:21.08 | romainguy___ | hemp77: the SDK will probably remain as it is |
| 16:22.15 | hemp77 | romainguy___: ok.. but the first devices will include such standard apps, or will they be written by third party companies? |
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| 16:22.30 | romainguy___ | you'll see when the devices are announced |
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| 16:23.50 | hemp77 | romainguy___: ok, ok ;-) |
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| 16:24.36 | loke | I ran t in the debugger, and it seems like it's crashing in the audio initialisation? |
| 16:24.37 | loke | http://paste.lisp.org/display/67011#1 |
| 16:24.42 | loke | any advice? |
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| 16:32.08 | rob-cs | Worst day EVER |
| 16:32.29 | rob-cs | My GMAIL, Yahoo Mail, Paypal were all HACKED when I woke up |
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| 16:42.14 | unix_lappy | omfg, devices, PLURAL! |
| 16:42.48 | romainguy___ | lol |
| 16:43.35 | unix_lappy | emails gizmodo! |
| 16:44.15 | unix_lappy | that Touch HD looks like a fantastic headset, though, hopefully it's made the shortlist. |
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| 17:10.08 | umdk1d3 | deviceS? =D |
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| 17:10.33 | umdk1d3 | well there was that at+t rumor |
| 17:11.29 | umdk1d3 | at+t and foxconn http://androidcommunity.com/forums/showthread.php?t=513 |
| 17:11.53 | umdk1d3 | does anyone recognize that red swirl logo in the status bar? |
| 17:12.28 | umdk1d3 | if it wasnt for that odd logo, i would cry 'shopped |
| 17:12.42 | umdk1d3 | also the "PM" is unnaturally streched |
| 17:13.12 | umdk1d3 | oh but yea good point further down that thread: neither at+t nor foxconn are part of OHA |
| 17:13.12 | mikez5 | That's where the battery icon should be. |
| 17:13.31 | umdk1d3 | so is that the dead battery icon? |
| 17:13.37 | mikez5 | I can't remember what it looks like when the battery is almost dead. |
| 17:13.47 | umdk1d3 | jumps into frameworkres |
| 17:14.40 | morrildl | The red swirl is the icon indicating low battery. |
| 17:15.18 | morrildl | Don't interpret that as a confirmation of rumors. We don't comment on rumors |
| 17:15.27 | umdk1d3 | yep there we go http://umdk1d3.mine.nu/dump/dead.png |
| 17:15.50 | umdk1d3 | just looked like a swirl from that angle |
| 17:16.11 | umdk1d3 | stat_sys_battery_0 icon |
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| 17:17.54 | mikez5 | If that picture is real, maybe they don't have battery status working on that HW yet. |
| 17:18.24 | umdk1d3 | oh true |
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| 17:18.54 | umdk1d3 | out of all the manuf in the oha, which one does that handset look like? |
| 17:19.43 | umdk1d3 | i cant tell if that one would have a keyboard |
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| 17:49.02 | muthu | when's the market launch? |
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| 17:51.28 | muthu | http://www.bizjournals.com/dallas/stories/2008/09/15/daily38.html |
| 17:54.13 | unix_lappy | I know those guys. |
| 17:54.28 | unix_lappy | met rylan the other day. |
| 17:54.50 | morrildl | oh awesome |
| 17:54.57 | muthu | gocart is pretty cool |
| 17:55.10 | unix_lappy | yea, did they change the name in the last week or so? |
| 17:55.18 | muthu | lol |
| 17:55.24 | morrildl | yes :) |
| 17:55.26 | morrildl | I believe they did |
| 17:55.33 | muthu | oh ok.. then i'm right |
| 17:55.54 | muthu | morrildl, when the market launch? |
| 17:56.13 | muthu | need to get the app ready.. on time for market |
| 17:56.35 | morrildl | With devices |
| 17:56.52 | muthu | ok.. so in october |
| 17:57.11 | muthu | good, give us some time to develop |
| 17:57.20 | muthu | s/give/gives |
| 17:59.11 | plusminus_ | morrildl: 'market' updates the client version when we update the ones on the "market-servers" ? |
| 17:59.21 | plusminus_ | ... of our apps |
| 17:59.53 | plusminus_ | so we do not need to consider a kind of self-updating? |
| 18:00.34 | muthu | plusminus_, the update is more like reinstall |
| 18:01.42 | plusminus_ | yeah doesn"t matter in the end |
| 18:01.50 | plusminus_ | except databases/prefs |
| 18:02.30 | muthu | don't think they would wipe data |
| 18:07.42 | morrildl | We aren't yet sure whether automatic updates will be used. There are pros and cons and technical considerations that we are working through. |
| 18:08.49 | muthu | hmm |
| 18:09.05 | muthu | then the apps need to sync the client data with server.. to be safe |
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| 18:14.48 | morrildl | muthu: it depends on the mechanism |
| 18:15.00 | morrildl | by definition, an uninstall wipes all application data; a reinstall does not |
| 18:15.11 | Dougie187 | morrildl: are you gonna be at the thing on tuesday? |
| 18:15.21 | morrildl | that is directly equivalent to 'adb uninstall <package>' vs. 'adb install -r <apk file>' |
| 18:15.31 | morrildl | Dougie187: yes |
| 18:15.54 | Dougie187 | sounds like fun. |
| 18:16.01 | Dougie187 | are you excited for it? |
| 18:16.47 | muthu | ok, if its reinstall then no issues |
| 18:16.59 | morrildl | Dougie187: Press events are always a mixed bag :) |
| 18:17.10 | morrildl | ...at least, for an engineer ;) |
| 18:17.15 | Dougie187 | lol |
| 18:17.21 | Dougie187 | well.. do you know when the next sdk is coming out? |
| 18:17.27 | morrildl | Personally I just hope there's food somewhere |
| 18:17.28 | Dougie187 | supposed to be this month right? |
| 18:17.29 | morrildl | hehheh |
| 18:17.34 | morrildl | I do know. |
| 18:17.34 | Dougie187 | Im sure you will get some food. |
| 18:17.35 | Dougie187 | lol |
| 18:18.02 | Dougie187 | I take it by your very informative answer that you can't tell when its supposed to come out? |
| 18:18.08 | morrildl | ;) |
| 18:18.31 | morrildl | Actually there's not much mystery, really |
| 18:18.36 | Dougie187 | Do you know if you guys will still keep secrets like this after android is actually out? |
| 18:18.49 | morrildl | It's being actively worked on and we hope to get it out quite soon |
| 18:18.50 | morrildl | It's in QA |
| 18:18.58 | morrildl | But I don't have an exact date for you |
| 18:19.03 | morrildl | better to not rush it |
| 18:19.07 | Dougie187 | true. |
| 18:19.09 | Dougie187 | http://www.engadget.com/2008/09/17/t-mobile-g1-said-to-be-landing-october-17th-sprint-android-phon/ |
| 18:19.11 | Dougie187 | thats pretty cool. |
| 18:19.12 | Dougie187 | lol |
| 18:19.38 | morrildl | Dougie187: the Roadmap we published will become increasingly detailed about this sort of thing, yeah |
| 18:19.47 | Dougie187 | thats cool. |
| 18:20.23 | Dougie187 | are you excited to release android finally? |
| 18:21.05 | morrildl | I am incandescent even at this moment |
| 18:21.12 | morrildl | We all are :) |
| 18:21.44 | Dougie187 | well thats always good. |
| 18:22.52 | plusminus_ | probably like getting a child ;) *unexperienced in getting children* |
| 18:23.24 | Dougie187 | lol getting a child? |
| 18:23.35 | Dougie187 | i don't think i have heard it put that way before. |
| 18:24.02 | ulmen | getChild()? |
| 18:24.03 | plusminus_ | in germany we use it often, maybe more like: |
| 18:24.18 | plusminus_ | "its been a long hard birth" |
| 18:24.25 | romainguy_ | re |
| 18:24.41 | plusminus_ | hi romainguy_ |
| 18:25.07 | plusminus_ | you know if Jason Chen is on holiday or something? |
| 18:26.41 | plusminus_ | because its not only me, fighting with the Android/MapsAPI ToS, also BreadCrumbz which is a ADC Top20 app... |
| 18:27.04 | plusminus_ | probably even more... |
| 18:27.25 | plusminus_ | so he is not responding to my request :( |
| 18:27.33 | plusminus_ | s |
| 18:29.51 | muthu | plusminus_, how's your apps coming along? |
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| 18:34.34 | unix_lappy | anyone, what does WST / Android Editors allow you to do? |
| 18:34.57 | xavd_ | it provides custom editors for most XML files used to develop android app |
| 18:35.08 | xavd_ | (android manifest, XML value files, XML Layout files) |
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| 18:35.39 | plusminus_ | muthu: fine, some new features with the working geocoder |
| 18:35.44 | mohbana | any idea when android is due in the uk? |
| 18:36.17 | plusminus_ | not seen anything except the "official launch" somewhere near to October 13th |
| 18:37.42 | muthu | plusminus_, how many apps are you launching? |
| 18:39.02 | mohbana | plusminus_: what carrier and phone? |
| 18:40.46 | plusminus_ | t-mob/htc ^^ |
| 18:40.48 | plusminus_ | a couple |
| 18:40.51 | plusminus_ | about 7 |
| 18:40.56 | plusminus_ | 2 games |
| 18:41.04 | plusminus_ | 3 small |
| 18:41.06 | plusminus_ | andnav |
| 18:41.10 | plusminus_ | + 1 unfinished |
| 18:41.27 | Dougie187 | hey plusminus_ what about this one. |
| 18:41.27 | Dougie187 | http://www.engadget.com/2008/09/17/t-mobile-g1-said-to-be-landing-october-17th-sprint-android-phon/ |
| 18:41.52 | Dougie187 | i guess thats still not uk. |
| 18:41.53 | plusminus_ | Dougie187: yeah that one that is in the news every day |
| 18:41.54 | Dougie187 | but oh well |
| 18:41.59 | plusminus_ | probably |
| 18:42.12 | plusminus_ | somewhere I hear Germany may also be on of the Early-Countries |
| 18:42.24 | Dougie187 | thats interesting. |
| 18:42.32 | Dougie187 | i wonder why germany would be one of the early countries. |
| 18:42.46 | plusminus_ | t-mobile is also pretty big here |
| 18:42.55 | Dougie187 | i guess i could see that then. |
| 18:42.56 | plusminus_ | http://andpipes.anddev.org |
| 18:43.01 | plusminus_ | http://andsudoku.anddev.org |
| 18:43.06 | plusminus_ | http://andnav.org |
| 18:43.21 | Dougie187 | are these all your apps? |
| 18:43.31 | plusminus_ | yes, all what starts with "and |
| 18:43.38 | plusminus_ | " is probably mine ;) |
| 18:43.44 | Dougie187 | hah, i like how the and on andpipes looks like a 3rd grader wrote it. |
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| 18:44.15 | Dougie187 | thats cool though. |
| 18:44.17 | Dougie187 | are these free? |
| 18:44.24 | plusminus_ | dunno |
| 18:44.24 | unix_lappy | wow, ganymede isnt nearly as slow as europa. |
| 18:44.40 | plusminus_ | the font is handwritten on my tablet :-P |
| 18:44.56 | plusminus_ | tried to make it look 'dynamic" |
| 18:45.08 | Dougie187 | pipes looks cool |
| 18:45.20 | Dougie187 | same with sudoku. |
| 18:45.27 | Dougie187 | im a sudoku fan. |
| 18:46.14 | Dougie187 | Lol you were a winner of the android dotphone not winner fund. |
| 18:46.39 | plusminus_ | yeah |
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| 18:46.55 | plusminus_ | lets not talk about the device I received\ |
| 18:46.59 | plusminus_ | it sucked HARD ! |
| 18:47.34 | Dougie187 | the device you received? |
| 18:47.40 | plusminus_ | the emulator on a 500Mhz machine would obviously have been faster |
| 18:47.50 | plusminus_ | the dev-board from dotphone.com |
| 18:48.30 | Dougie187 | lol |
| 18:48.35 | plusminus_ | if I had paid for it, I would have sent it back immediately |
| 18:48.36 | Dougie187 | thats disappointing. |
| 18:48.42 | plusminus_ | oh yeah |
| 18:48.47 | Dougie187 | well i guess at least you didn't pay for it then. |
| 18:48.50 | Dougie187 | didn't you have to assemble it too? |
| 18:49.08 | plusminus_ | the screen turned white after every frame (had abotu 1fps on the homescreen!) |
| 18:49.17 | Dougie187 | lol |
| 18:49.21 | plusminus_ | no just 2-3 cables |
| 18:49.27 | Dougie187 | oh ok. |
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| 19:02.56 | plusminus_ | test |
| 19:03.36 | f00f- | test failed |
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| 19:07.16 | mohbana | i hope the official phone doesn't have the part below the screen |
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| 19:16.07 | spykid | plusminus_: Germany is an early country ;) |
| 19:22.00 | mohbana | does google release email addresses that haven't been used for a certain period? |
| 19:27.24 | plusminus_ | mohbana: you get not a single spam mail there ??? respect |
| 19:29.31 | mohbana | i meant accounts that have been left idle for a while, i.e., the user hasn;t logged in |
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| 20:04.26 | unix_infidel | is an SD card not built into the emulator? |
| 20:04.38 | unix_infidel | or some sort of storage device? |
| 20:05.43 | mikez5 | The emulator has a -sdcard option |
| 20:05.58 | mikez5 | emulator -sdcard <file with FAT file system> |
| 20:17.29 | unix_infidel | mikez5: where ,file with FAT file system> is? |
| 20:18.28 | unix_infidel | you have to specify a partition? or something else? |
| 20:18.46 | mikez5 | I think there is a mksdcard script in the SDK. |
| 20:19.01 | mikez5 | Or you can create a large empty file and run mkdosfs on it. |
| 20:19.10 | unix_infidel | ah. |
| 20:19.17 | mikez5 | Or use dd to copy an actual FAT disk. |
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| 20:31.10 | kingkung | hello? |
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| 20:47.17 | gdsx | kingkung: (just us mice) |
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| 21:49.47 | _avatar | is there a way to request a listview to refresh/requery only one of its rows? BaseAdapter has notifyDataSetChanged(), but that causes all visible items to be redrawn. I just want one of the items requeried from my adapter |
| 21:52.20 | romainguy_ | _avatar: no |
| 21:54.00 | _avatar | ok. can i use getChildAt() and tweak the view myself? |
| 21:54.08 | _avatar | ListView.getChildAt(), I mean. |
| 21:54.17 | _avatar | well, I suppose I should just try |
| 21:54.40 | umdk1d3 | umm wait |
| 21:54.41 | umdk1d3 | i had a way |
| 21:56.05 | umdk1d3 | i have been using getChildAt().invalidate() regularly |
| 21:56.11 | umdk1d3 | it works as expected |
| 21:56.21 | umdk1d3 | even with a cursor-backed list |
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| 21:56.38 | umdk1d3 | need to cursor.requery() before that tho iirc |
| 21:56.56 | umdk1d3 | also be careful because getChildAt() can return null if you send in bad position |
| 21:57.44 | umdk1d3 | continues rambling on to self |
| 21:58.05 | _avatar | i'm not using a cursor backed list. let me give it a shot. |
| 22:05.30 | _avatar | umdk1d3: getChildAt().invalidate() doesn't seem to work for me in my non-cursor backed data. i wonder if the cusror.requery() causes the adapter to requery everything? |
| 22:05.58 | umdk1d3 | maybe |
| 22:06.14 | umdk1d3 | but i remember having those issues you described |
| 22:06.20 | umdk1d3 | flashing the entire list when refreshing |
| 22:06.28 | umdk1d3 | and thats what ive been doing to get around it iirc |
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| 22:07.19 | _avatar | hrm |
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| 22:55.48 | donomo | any idea why the log file never shows the 'got fix' messages? http://pastie.org/274580 |
| 23:08.42 | dmoffett | Are you getting an exception on line 6? |
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| 23:11.17 | squeakypants | hey |
| 23:21.16 | donomo | dmoffett: no exception. the other log lines are printing. |
| 23:21.33 | donomo | getLastKnownLocation seems to be a black hole |
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| 23:28.12 | f00f- | dont trust it |
| 23:28.14 | f00f- | track it yourself |
| 23:30.06 | donomo | track what myself? |
| 23:31.02 | fadden | If it's getting stuck, ask DDMS for a stack trace. |
| 23:31.29 | donomo | hmmm. |
| 23:32.11 | donomo | it doesnt seem stuck. its a service that runs a thread every 5 seconds. the threads continue to fire, but the last log report never runs. |
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| 23:32.32 | donomo | the list of threads for the process does not show a buildup of threads |
| 23:32.44 | fadden | Do you see the thread appearing, briefly, every 5 seconds? |
| 23:32.54 | unix_infidel | is it just, or whenever you see matt_c you think matt cutts? |
| 23:33.09 | unix_infidel | just me* |
| 23:33.39 | matt_c | is a much less exciting Matt Croydon :) |
| 23:33.40 | donomo | fadden: not that i can tell. |
| 23:34.06 | donomo | fadden: when the 'update threads' button is 'on' for a process, is that list updated automatically? |
| 23:34.46 | fadden | Yes. |
| 23:34.56 | fadden | Try "adb logcat -v thread" |
| 23:35.35 | fadden | You should see the every-5-second message in the same pid but a different tid each time. |
| 23:35.59 | fadden | (it's pid:tid, with the tid in hex for some reason) |
| 23:36.11 | donomo | i see same pid, and same tid each time. (1331:0x539) |
| 23:36.18 | donomo | nice to know what that second number is :) |
| 23:36.38 | fadden | Were you expecting it to start a new thread? |
| 23:37.17 | fadden | 0x539 == 1337 ... |
| 23:37.35 | donomo | hmm. i guess not. timer.scheduleAtFixedRate( new TimerTask() { public void run() { ... } } ... |
| 23:37.53 | donomo | i guess the same thread could be fired each time |
| 23:38.46 | fadden | Next thing to try would be single-step with a debugger. |
| 23:39.12 | donomo | yeah that sounds good |
| 23:41.02 | fadden | Either you're popping back out, which can only happen in Java with an exception, or what you're calling is somehow ending up back in the timer code, which will cause the stack to overflow before long. |
| 23:41.25 | fadden | You can double-click on the thread in DDMS to see a stack trace and rule out the ever-growing-stack. |
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| 23:47.54 | donomo | working my way through a lot of debugger stuff. |
| 23:48.18 | donomo | when i step over 'get last known location' the debugger doesnt go to the next line of code in my method, it goes into java.util.Timer |
| 23:48.36 | unix_infidel | expected. |
| 23:49.03 | fadden | How does the stack look at that point? If you repeat it does the stack keep getting deeper? |
| 23:50.16 | donomo | the stack looks good, if i 'Resume' the stack is not any deeper on the next go-around? |
| 23:50.27 | donomo | s/?/./ wasnt a question. |
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| 23:51.01 | donomo | unix_infidel: how is that expected? i would expect the next line in my bethod to be the next stopping point. |
| 23:51.19 | fadden | How sure are you there's no exception getting thrown? |
| 23:51.30 | donomo | as far as i can tell, there is not. |
| 23:51.44 | donomo | in the precss list under what i think is the version column, it says 8612/8700. |
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| 23:51.52 | donomo | instead of a single version # |
| 23:52.02 | donomo | s/precss/process/ |
| 23:52.13 | fadden | Those are DDMS debugger ports. |
| 23:52.20 | donomo | ah |
| 23:52.32 | fadden | The current app can always be connected to on 8700; you can also connect to it on 8612 even if it's not the current app. |
| 23:52.41 | fadden | (you can debug multiple apps simultaneously) |
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| 23:54.02 | donomo | k |
| 23:54.42 | fadden | You can try wrapping the instruction with a try{} catch(Throwable t) and see if anybody bites, |
| 23:55.02 | fadden | or catch all caught/uncaught Throwables in the debugger and see if it breaks. |
| 23:55.31 | fadden | Failing that, I'm not sure why you're not seeing that log line appear. |
