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| 01:42.48 | moccuo | i can't wait for the htc dream |
| 01:42.52 | moccuo | :) |
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| 01:43.16 | catzilla | me neither |
| 01:43.25 | catzilla | i hope it's not crap |
| 01:43.29 | plusminus_ | hey there |
| 01:43.33 | catzilla | hi |
| 01:43.43 | plusminus_ | android:textAlign is gone, anyone knows how it is called now? |
| 01:44.33 | romainguy_ | android:gravity |
| 01:44.44 | snadge | well the iphone is crap.. winmo is crap |
| 01:45.00 | snadge | on that note, apparently v7 of winmo is coming out.. is that an android killer? :P j/k |
| 01:45.18 | moccuo | iphone is nice, imo |
| 01:45.21 | snadge | i do know nothing about it though |
| 01:45.42 | snadge | my flatmate has a htc tytn ii .. with winmo 6.1 on it |
| 01:45.54 | snadge | which is okay.. i'd rate it higher than an iphone imho |
| 01:46.01 | snadge | except for eye candy |
| 01:46.15 | plusminus_ | romainguy_ thx |
| 01:46.34 | snadge | im wondering if they're adding the eye candy to winmo 7 |
| 01:46.41 | romainguy_ | plusminus_: stop posting the same question over and over on the newsgroup :) |
| 01:46.51 | catzilla | do you guys know if all HTC Dream apps will have to be installed from the android "store"? |
| 01:47.18 | snadge | no, it just makes it more convenient |
| 01:47.36 | romainguy_ | catzilla: it's just one way to install them |
| 01:47.48 | catzilla | k |
| 01:47.54 | catzilla | so not like the iPhone store? |
| 01:47.55 | snadge | like repositories, you can be sure its a verified app.. and unmodified |
| 01:48.12 | catzilla | more like Maemo? |
| 01:48.19 | snadge | if you just download a random app from somewhere, you have less guarantee of its authenticity |
| 01:48.24 | catzilla | sure |
| 01:48.35 | catzilla | or palm for that matter |
| 01:49.09 | moccuo | most of the apps would be opensource though, right? |
| 01:49.41 | romainguy_ | ah |
| 01:49.44 | romainguy_ | I just finished my new app |
| 01:50.10 | plusminus_ | romainguy_ I could not see it, thats why I added : "PS: This is my third try to post o_O." |
| 01:50.26 | snadge | android itself is open source.. a lot of apps will be, but i dont think its mandatory .. im assuming you can chose your own software license |
| 01:50.27 | moccuo | is there any bindings for building ruby/python apps for android? |
| 01:50.50 | plusminus_ | romainguy_ an even better Home-Screen ? ;) |
| 01:52.06 | romainguy | no |
| 01:52.14 | romainguy | something really simple that's probably be useful only to me |
| 01:52.21 | romainguy | but it was a good excuse to draw in Adobe Illustrator |
| 01:52.40 | romainguy_ | let me up a screenshot |
| 01:55.35 | romainguy_ | plusminus_: http://progx.org/users/Gfx/shutterspeed.png and http://progx.org/users/Gfx/shutterspeed_icon.png |
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| 01:59.40 | plusminus_ | to make photos with manual-camera-confiuration ? |
| 01:59.45 | romainguy_ | lol no |
| 01:59.48 | romainguy_ | well |
| 01:59.49 | romainguy_ | yes |
| 01:59.50 | romainguy_ | kinda |
| 01:59.56 | plusminus_ | or view the configuration photos were taken with ?= |
| 02:00.19 | romainguy_ | if you take photos in low-light situations, a digital camera cannot give you a good exposure time if you want to use low-ISO and low-aperture settings |
| 02:00.32 | romainguy_ | so the trick is to set your camera to high-ISO, large-aperture settings |
| 02:00.46 | romainguy_ | then input the exposure read by the camera in the app, and the app will give you the exposure needed for your settings |
| 02:00.55 | romainguy_ | in this case |
| 02:01.10 | plusminus_ | ah ok, i think i got it |
| 02:01.17 | romainguy_ | if the camera tells you that you need a 1 second exposure at f/2.8 and ISO 800, you will need 4 minutes and 16 seconds at ISO 100 and f/16 |
| 02:01.59 | romainguy_ | but really, what I wanted was to draw the lens :)) |
| 02:02.03 | romainguy_ | I just made an app around it :p |
| 02:03.16 | swetland | ahaha |
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| 02:05.16 | romainguy_ | swetland: I actually built a similar app for J2ME a while ago |
| 02:05.20 | romainguy_ | and it was useful to me |
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| 02:12.22 | plusminus_ | I just ported an app to 0.9 and had a custom view. I did not change its onDraw but everything is about 1000000x times to big o_O |
| 02:13.19 | romainguy_ | ? |
| 02:13.24 | romainguy_ | what do you mean "too big"? |
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| 02:14.11 | plusminus_ | My Sudoku Game: http://andsudoku.anddev.org/ , I can only see the upper left corner, |
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| 02:14.42 | catzilla | pretty |
| 02:15.40 | plusminus_ | I think I got it... |
| 02:15.50 | romainguy_ | plusminus_: then there was probably a bug you were relying on |
| 02:16.17 | plusminus_ | don't think so, just a small change. I was getting the width in the xml constructor with: |
| 02:16.18 | plusminus_ | final String widthString = attrs.getAttributeValue(NAMESPACE_DEFAULT, LAYOUT_WIDTH); |
| 02:16.31 | plusminus_ | before 0.9 it returned sth like: "200px" |
| 02:16.37 | plusminus_ | now it returns like "200.0px" |
| 02:16.50 | plusminus_ | which made my parsing go weird ;) |
| 02:16.53 | romainguy_ | er |
| 02:16.58 | romainguy_ | why are you parsing this yourself? |
| 02:17.49 | plusminus_ | becuase getWidth returned not the acutal value (at least not inside the constructor, where I need it) |
| 02:18.18 | romainguy_ | I mean, that's not how you should read the values from XML |
| 02:18.26 | romainguy_ | unless that's a custom XML of yours |
| 02:19.09 | plusminus_ | how to do it then? |
| 02:19.43 | romainguy_ | use TypedArray.getLayoutDimension() |
| 02:20.01 | romainguy_ | for instance |
| 02:20.33 | romainguy_ | TypedArray a = context.obtainStyledAttributes(attre, R.styleable.ViewGroup_Layout); |
| 02:20.41 | romainguy_ | a.getDimension(R.styleable.ViewGroup_Layout_layout_width, "layout_width") |
| 02:22.52 | swetland | romain: you should write a light meter app! |
| 02:26.27 | plusminus_ | romainguy_ Big Thx, works perfect. Even without dangers of parsing ;) |
| 02:28.30 | romainguy | plusminus_: that's how we read all the attributes in our Views from XML |
| 02:30.54 | catzilla | someone should write a thermometer app too |
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| 02:43.38 | plusminus_ | uuh, I just realized, that by tripple(?) clicking within the browser, one can get the magnifying glass ;D |
| 02:44.39 | plusminus_ | ... just double-tapping... |
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| 02:52.46 | plusminus_ | API-Changes help says that the replacement for DataStateIntentReceiver is MobileDataStateBroadcastReceiver. But it does not exists. |
| 02:53.07 | plusminus_ | there is only a MobileDataStateTracker. Is it what was meant ? |
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| 03:03.00 | muthu | do we know who the guy behind the coffee machine is? |
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| 03:03.37 | muthu | http://groups.google.com/group/android-developers/browse_thread/thread/f60eae7146dd51e5?hl=en |
| 03:03.40 | muthu | lol |
| 03:04.04 | muthu | the google dog will be a great mascot for android :) |
| 03:08.15 | romainguy | I hate this dog |
| 03:08.18 | romainguy | it looks like a rat |
| 03:08.20 | romainguy | e@!# |
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| 03:12.12 | muthu | haha |
| 03:12.29 | muthu | the dog is everywhere |
| 03:16.27 | muthu | s/dog/rat |
| 03:16.31 | muthu | hehe |
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| 03:57.11 | plusminus_ | Cursor c = getContentResolver().query(Telephony.Sms.Inbox.CONTENT_URI, null, null, null, null); |
| 03:59.17 | plusminus_ | no |
| 03:59.25 | plusminus_ | Cursor c = getContentResolver().query(Telephony.Sms.Outbox.CONTENT_URI, null, null, null, null); |
| 03:59.31 | plusminus_ | returns an empty cursor |
| 03:59.36 | plusminus_ | even having sent some messages |
| 04:00.02 | jasta | plusminus_: check adb logcat and look for the exact query that was executed. |
| 04:00.08 | jasta | should give you some insight into why there was a syntax error |
| 04:00.22 | jasta | a null cursor doesn't mean an empty set, but rather an error executing it. |
| 04:00.31 | jasta | executing the query* |
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| 04:05.51 | plusminus_ | cursor is not null, but contaisn zero results |
| 04:06.01 | plusminus_ | Columns are correct, I assume: [_id, thread_id, address, person, date, protocol, read, status, type, reply_path_present, subject, body, service_center] |
| 04:06.08 | jasta | oh sorry, i misread. |
| 04:06.36 | jasta | outbox indicates to me that it is messages which are pending delivery, not post delivery. |
| 04:07.18 | plusminus_ | Argh, hti me |
| 04:07.32 | plusminus_ | I'm an idiot :D |
| 04:10.50 | plusminus_ | I always mix that up... |
| 04:11.39 | jasta | plusminus_: so, what do you think of the images of the HTC Dream/G1 phone? |
| 04:26.56 | plusminus_ | I like it :) but i am no t-mobile customer |
| 04:27.10 | plusminus_ | so it will take me more time to get it |
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| 04:35.53 | snadge | you have to be a t-mobile customer? |
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| 04:36.07 | snadge | i was thinking of purchasing one while i was in the usa.. and bringing it back to australia |
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| 04:36.23 | snadge | dont tell me this isnt going to be possible? :P |
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| 04:50.43 | muthu | tmobile will keep it locked |
| 04:53.20 | snadge | i thought the whole point of android was that it was supposed to be unlocked and fair for everybody? |
| 04:53.43 | snadge | we dont have tmobile in australia (that im aware of) |
| 04:53.57 | snadge | it should work with any 3g provider :( |
| 04:54.02 | muthu | the rest of the world will be different |
| 04:54.13 | muthu | it will boil down to the local carriers |
| 04:54.25 | muthu | in india, mostly its unlocked |
| 04:54.27 | snadge | as long as theres a hack for it to unlock it ;) |
| 04:54.34 | muthu | yeah sure |
| 05:00.57 | jasta | god damnit |
| 05:01.05 | jasta | my new roommate is really lame |
| 05:01.15 | muthu | what happened? |
| 05:01.20 | jasta | damn you craig's list |
| 05:01.52 | muthu | haha, you should've asked for an android programmer |
| 05:08.39 | romainguy | re |
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| 05:56.59 | muthu | hey romainguy |
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| 05:57.24 | muthu | i know you've been advocating against custom ui design.. any reasons for that? |
| 05:57.48 | muthu | in terms of styles and themes |
| 05:58.44 | romainguy | I'm not advocating against it |
| 05:58.48 | romainguy | do it if it's worth it |
| 05:58.59 | romainguy | but don't do it if you are redesigning all the widgets |
| 05:59.07 | romainguy | just because you don't like the standard ones |
| 05:59.17 | romainguy | otherwise your app will look different from other ones |
| 05:59.24 | romainguy | and won't work on phones with different themes |
| 05:59.37 | romainguy | but in the end, it's up to you :) |
| 06:00.12 | muthu | i'm putting this new app together |
| 06:00.32 | muthu | am going to stick with the default ones |
| 06:00.40 | muthu | since i'm not a designer by any means |
| 06:01.26 | muthu | can the icons bundled with android be used in commercial apps? |
| 06:02.11 | romainguy | I think so |
| 06:02.17 | muthu | gr88 |
| 06:02.20 | romainguy | they should be licensed under the Apache 2.0 license |
| 06:02.26 | romainguy | but double-check with the advocates |
| 06:02.34 | muthu | ok |
| 06:03.06 | muthu | i looked at your photostream.. do you always document like that ;) |
| 06:03.18 | romainguy | usually yes |
| 06:03.20 | romainguy | why? |
| 06:03.25 | muthu | pretty impressive |
| 06:03.37 | muthu | since javadoc is the last thing in my mind always |
| 06:03.51 | romainguy | it helps when you have time for it :) |
| 06:04.08 | muthu | right, i can see the effort in it. thanks :) |
| 06:04.23 | muthu | your UserTask can be part of android sdk, i guess |
| 06:04.43 | romainguy | we'll probably have it or something similar in the next version |
| 06:04.45 | jasta | i usually spend the effort to document things which are generalized. |
| 06:05.00 | muthu | yeah |
| 06:05.22 | jasta | but not for specialized classes. i can see the obvious argument in favor of the opposite, but i just don't do it :) |
| 06:05.23 | muthu | i document only when others ask for it.. lol |
| 06:05.58 | jasta | i always document when i intend for someone to learn from what i've done, as well. |
| 06:06.12 | muthu | jasta: i've checked out five |
| 06:06.17 | muthu | but not yet peeped into it |
| 06:06.34 | jasta | well, the current SVN is in non-working order as five-music is radically redesigned. |
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| 06:07.31 | jasta | the service package is finishing up now, with just the local server hack and thorough testing left to go |
| 06:07.48 | jasta | then its into the activities which are now all broken because the service they depend on was scrapped and rebuilt |
| 06:07.56 | muthu | did the instrumentation work? |
| 06:08.12 | jasta | also, i plan to redo all the UI as i always considered it to be temporary leading up to the challenge anyway |
| 06:08.33 | muthu | you had a nice ui |
| 06:08.47 | jasta | no, as it turns out, services in the Android framework are very poorly tested :) |
| 06:09.05 | jasta | the visual appeal of the UI will remain in most cases, however the real mechanics of it will be changed a lot. |
| 06:09.19 | muthu | i'm not sure if the android developers are doing any kind of testing |
| 06:09.27 | jasta | the artist/album screens for example will not really change visually, but the way it all comes together will |
| 06:09.47 | muthu | diggin was impressive |
| 06:09.52 | jasta | unit testing is somewhat common throughout Android, however it's very inconsistent. |
| 06:10.03 | jasta | their test coverage is probably very low. |
| 06:10.22 | jasta | i liked diggin's UI a lot, although it did raise a few critical questions |
| 06:10.55 | jasta | like, it seems that the UI caters to users with very small music collections. scrolling through your music visually in that way would be very difficult if you had more than even 20 albums or so |
| 06:11.17 | jasta | and lots of users have singles littered throughout, so there would be tons of "empty" albums, which diggin's UI seems to exaggerate. |
| 06:11.59 | muthu | yeah |
| 06:12.00 | jasta | also, i found out that their streaming media support is such a huge hack that it will probably be removed from the 1.0 build unless Google fixes their crap |
| 06:12.09 | jasta | (i talked to him about it; he used the same hack Five did, which doesn't work at all) |
| 06:12.38 | muthu | hmm |
| 06:12.53 | muthu | there's a lot of rough edges left in android |
| 06:12.54 | jasta | what he does is stores the stream to disk himself and points the mediaplayer at it. |
| 06:13.04 | muthu | right |
| 06:13.11 | jasta | which means that he has to "swap out" the mediaplayer reading the local content, which will cause stutters periodically for users. |
| 06:13.18 | jasta | on the order of even just a few minutes of playback |
| 06:13.32 | jasta | which he felt was acceptable as a demonstration, as did i for five, but will not fly for end users. |
| 06:13.41 | muthu | yup |
| 06:13.43 | jasta | as of 0.9r1, the MediaPlayer remains too broken to make it work correctly. |
| 06:14.47 | jasta | but all-in-all i am curious about Diggin's UI, though i don't know that there are any elements i can really draw from for my project. |
| 06:15.00 | jasta | i just don't know that i agree with the fundamental approach he has. it would be unruly for large collections. |
| 06:15.04 | jasta | even with the ability to search the music |
| 06:15.06 | gambler | I bet you could find an open source java mp3 decoder out there |
| 06:15.36 | jasta | gambler: i thought the same thing, but then you'd need to do some major hacking to get access to the audio hardware. |
| 06:15.43 | jasta | none of google's public classes offer you that. |
| 06:16.05 | jasta | once source is released, i suspect you could figure it out pretty easily, but it's entirely possible that the Java layer doesn't even have that access. only the native layer. |
| 06:16.19 | jasta | if that's the case, then you'd need to develop a native component yourself which is likely not easy to distribute with an APK |
| 06:16.43 | jasta | so suddenly your app becomes very difficult for users to load, and all just to work around a couple of trivial limitations in a poorly thought out library |
| 06:17.02 | gambler | so you cant write to the speaker...hmmm |
| 06:17.34 | jasta | the MediaPlayer's issues really seemed like show stoppers to me in M5. i am surprised that Google did not agree. |
| 06:17.45 | gambler | I guess the android security model (which I havent looked at) probably isnt yet mature enough to handle that. |
| 06:17.53 | jasta | i understand the "we're busy" argument, but still there is some functionality that you just can't afford to screw up, and taht's one of them. |
| 06:20.38 | romainguy | jasta: there are tons of features that we can't afford to screw up, and this was not in the top priority list |
| 06:20.44 | romainguy | (unfortunately so, but that's the way it is) |
| 06:21.38 | jasta | well it's just that...it's unusable. |
| 06:21.57 | romainguy | for what? |
| 06:22.02 | romainguy | for streaming/caching stuff? |
| 06:22.10 | jasta | for anything other than playing static local content |
| 06:22.53 | jasta | it can't even stream. regardless of my streaming and caching requirement. the local http server hack that google now officially recommends also won't work. |
| 06:23.12 | jasta | (i posted a bug, if you're curious to know why) |
| 06:23.54 | gambler | romainguy, I think the eclipse plugin site is down. Im trying to reinstall it and its not working |
| 06:23.55 | jasta | morrildl alerted the team, but i am not in the loop as to how this is being prioritized. |
| 06:24.09 | romainguy | won't happen for 1.0 |
| 06:24.20 | jasta | romainguy: how do you know? |
| 06:24.30 | romainguy | because I do |
| 06:24.39 | jasta | uhh, ok. |
| 06:24.52 | jasta | well, then that means no streaming UI is possible :) |
| 06:25.14 | romainguy | unless the bug has already been fixed ^^ |
| 06:25.20 | jasta | it hasn't. |
| 06:25.45 | jasta | (i talked to some folks who relayed some questions to the team) |
| 06:26.37 | jasta | the problem is that you get no data useful to display to the user what the buffer progress is, or when audio output has stopped or anything. |
| 06:27.19 | jasta | so if the user clicks something that requires buffering, you can't actually report to the user some reasonable information about when audio output will start. likewise, you can't notify them when audio output stops. |
| 06:27.27 | snadge | hehe.. i dont want to see this, dont tell me i cant stream media for 1.0 ;) |
| 06:27.42 | jasta | snadge: well you can if your users don't mind having no idea what your application is doing :) |
| 06:28.11 | snadge | thats kind of how audacious et all.. already do it |
| 06:28.23 | jasta | you can't control or observe the buffering heuristics. you only get one shot to know when playback begins (and you get no progress indicator leading up to it) |
| 06:28.29 | snadge | you see it load the initial buffer.. it starts playing.. and thats it |
| 06:28.32 | snadge | just shows a counter |
| 06:28.42 | jasta | snadge: my point is you can't see it load the initial buffer. |
| 06:29.04 | snadge | right and you can also see if it needs to rebuffer |
| 06:29.11 | jasta | from the devs perspective, you merely start a stream and you get notified when playback begins. from then, you get no other status indications other than a fatal error that halts entirely. |
| 06:29.28 | jasta | snadge: but you can't see that either. in fact, you never know when audio stops or resumes from after the initial startup. |
| 06:30.19 | snadge | well i agree, that does kind of suck, not sure i would describe it as a show stopper though |
| 06:30.31 | snadge | an iphone cant even send an mms message |
| 06:30.50 | snadge | i couldn't believe that when i first heard it |
| 06:30.51 | jasta | yeah, i guess maybe smartphones have low standards ;) |
| 06:31.32 | snadge | well even if things like this have to be fixed with a 1.1 update |
| 06:31.50 | snadge | its still a better scenario than from other vendors.. the update will no doubt be a free one |
| 06:31.57 | jasta | well, forgive my bias, but the app i spent the last 10 months working on is a streaming media player :) |
| 06:32.59 | snadge | well get on these guys asses about fixing it ;) |
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| 06:33.09 | jasta | such a stupid reason it won't work too. it really ought not be a difficult thing to implement the MediaPlayer as documented. |
| 06:33.19 | gambler | snadge, that sounds a little gay...could you rephrase it |
| 06:33.52 | snadge | well you've reported the problem, what more can you do.. apart from try and fix it yourself |
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| 06:39.53 | umdk1d3 | grr this new RatingBar is /huge/ and i cant figure out how to make it smaller :/ its not listening to android:progressBarStyle |
| 06:40.50 | gambler | whatever you do, please make sure there is either a pause button or a stop button. Not both. |
| 06:40.55 | gambler | MCE ships with both and I cant understand why, since no media centres take VCR tapes. |
| 06:41.11 | romainguy | umdk1d3: er... look at the Api Demos :)) |
| 06:41.39 | romainguy | umdk1d3: the default size is the right size for a 160dpi touch screen btw |
| 06:42.02 | snadge | what? pause and stop have different meanings |
| 06:42.04 | umdk1d3 | ahah thats why /me grepped and found i should be setting regular "style" attribute |
| 06:42.20 | snadge | stop means pause, and seek to the beginning of the currently playing track |
| 06:43.08 | umdk1d3 | oh wow :( small really is small lol |
| 06:43.38 | snadge | i hate shared pause/stop buttons ;) |
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| 06:46.42 | gambler | I dont know if I believe that they have different meanings. The distinction arose from a technical issue surrounding VCR mechanics |
| 06:47.42 | snadge | cassette also has this in a tape deck |
| 06:47.58 | snadge | but then interfaces like media player and winamp replicate this also |
| 06:48.26 | snadge | its something we all grew up with.. pause signals your intention to want to resume from where you paused it |
| 06:48.38 | snadge | stop means exactly that |
| 06:48.55 | gambler | my other pet peeve with my current nokia based mp3 player is that it has no fast fwd or rewind. which makes it hard to listen to e-books |
| 06:49.06 | snadge | well thats just stupid |
| 06:49.13 | snadge | but then again, i hate nokias |
| 06:49.32 | snadge | i've always owned an ericsson ;) |
| 06:50.04 | snadge | whenever i've used someone elses nokia.. it tends to make me violent |
| 06:50.48 | gambler | amazing that people like so many different phone OS....we are so used to a mono culture in the desktop world |
| 06:51.25 | gambler | I for one love nokia, and would happily code for the platform if it was open source... |
| 06:52.20 | gambler | Ive written some J2ME before though and its painful, you cant do anything. |
| 06:53.07 | gambler | Thats why Im interested in freerunner on debian-arm etc...you can do anything. To me android is the successor to the J2ME philosophy |
| 06:56.37 | muthu | nokia's dev platform is not that good |
| 07:04.01 | gambler | maybe they will update it with maemo |
| 07:04.24 | muthu | gambler: did you decide on ioc? |
| 07:05.12 | gambler | I really wanted to get AspectJ working but it introduces a runtime dependency and a number of other problems |
| 07:05.34 | muthu | try spring |
| 07:06.27 | gambler | yeah, ill look again at some of those things you mentioned yesterday. I really like the AspectJ approach because it suits a formalism I am trying to introduce into my code |
| 07:07.11 | muthu | what you building? |
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| 07:10.22 | gambler | Ive designed a language for specifying and testing network protocols that generates java code. Im hoping it will save me time later |
| 07:11.59 | muthu | ok |
| 07:15.57 | gambler | there is a funny quote by terence parr thats something like: "Why write in one month what you could spend the rest of your life automating?" :p |
| 07:17.22 | gambler | ah, it's "why program by hand in five days what you can spend the five years of your life automating?" |
| 07:17.43 | gambler | he is a better programmer then me |
| 07:19.05 | muthu | you can get too carried away with automating :) |
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| 07:33.11 | gambler | yah totally. when i see the state of language tools it makes me want to cry |
| 07:34.36 | anno^da_ | http://androidguys.com/2008/09/01/from-dream-to-prototype/ <- I like that article. It is the same thing I asking me while looking at the G1 |
| 07:34.44 | anno^da_ | I'm asking.. |
| 07:38.55 | muthu | there's no doubt goog is rushing to meet Q4 date |
| 07:39.08 | jasta | anno^da_: yeah, i had the same thoughts |
| 07:39.42 | muthu | i think getting a device out there Q4 is the right strategy |
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| 07:40.30 | snadge | true open source style.. rush to release something thats half baked |
| 07:40.45 | muthu | its not half baked |
| 07:40.46 | snadge | why would anyone expect anything different? ;) |
| 07:41.00 | snadge | yeah but its not a kitchen sink 1.0 |
| 07:41.02 | muthu | iphone is half baked |
| 07:41.23 | anno^da_ | muthu: The thing is you have to import the device in Q4. From what the HTC guys said at the IFA the G1 will only be released in the US in Q4. |
| 07:41.28 | snadge | no bluetooth api.. no chat api.. no big deal.. but no streaming media ? yikes ;) |
| 07:41.36 | muthu | anno^da_: yeah, sad |
| 07:42.01 | snadge | i will be in the usa in november so im not worried.. i will buy one and take it back to australia, to find out i cant use it |
| 07:42.35 | anno^da_ | :) |
| 07:43.17 | anno^da_ | One thing is pretty clear to me. With the G1 you wont get the "big bang" entering the market. |
| 07:43.43 | muthu | G1 will sell well |
| 07:43.58 | umdk1d3 | mayyyybe |
| 07:44.03 | muthu | l ll lll |
| 07:44.06 | anno^da_ | We'll see. really really hope so. :) |
| 07:44.40 | snadge | theres more chance of that, than apple releasing an iphone that doesnt suck... and microsoft releasing a version of winmo that doesnt suck ;) |
| 07:44.59 | snadge | altho im relatively curious as to what v7 will bring |
| 07:45.59 | muthu | G7 will be fantastic |
| 07:46.58 | anno^da_ | Well at the moment I think that we will see a more polished G1 in October. |
| 07:47.08 | umdk1d3 | muthu: i think hes talking about winmo v7 ;) |
| 07:47.19 | anno^da_ | It will have the size that we know but much more polished. |
| 07:47.43 | anno^da_ | Since the only official thing we know are the FCC sketches. |
| 07:48.04 | anno^da_ | And romainguy could tell us if we are wrong or right. :-) |
| 07:48.10 | muthu | umdk1d3: ha, was getting ahead ;) |
| 07:48.29 | muthu | anno^da_: yes, it will be polished and nice |
| 07:49.52 | snadge | will winmo7 have eye candy? |
| 07:50.02 | snadge | or is that something microsoft.. has never been, and never will be able to get right ;) |
| 07:50.18 | umdk1d3 | i think the issue is that they cant reinvent their platform overnight |
| 07:50.20 | anno^da_ | There are two hearts beating in my chest at the moment. On the one hand I dont believe that we get a prototype looking phone. On the other hand I know that a lot of leaked pictures in the past (from different products) emerged to be true in the end. |
| 07:50.57 | umdk1d3 | msft adding an app store is another last-ditch effort to keep people interested |
| 07:51.08 | snadge | i just dont see why its difficult for microsoft to have sliding, bouncing buttons etc |
| 07:51.11 | umdk1d3 | they arent doing a major overhaul of their platform (like with .net for the desktop) |
| 07:51.14 | snadge | like the iphone does.. thats the only reason people like the iphone |
| 07:51.19 | snadge | because its "pretty" |
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| 07:51.52 | snadge | whereas windows mobile is like windows 3.1 trapped inside a tiny screen |
| 07:52.47 | snadge | asides from that (and my hatred of microsoft) .. i'd rate winmo above iphone |
| 08:01.22 | moccuo | snadge: i actually don't find the iphone that "pretty". i just think the app store has some pretty decent apps. |
| 08:01.52 | moccuo | no other phone right now has the functionality it has. |
| 08:05.03 | snadge | it has a few gimmicks.. but the way i see it, it lacks functionality |
| 08:05.30 | snadge | iphone pretty but limiting.. winmo ugly but less limiting |
| 08:05.34 | snadge | and no gimmicks |
| 08:08.48 | anno^da_ | have you seen that: http://books.google.com/books?id=8UsqHohwwVYC&printsec=frontcover#PPA15,M1 |
| 08:13.51 | gambler | wow... |
| 08:13.54 | gambler | I wish I had the artistic skills to write a comic just to make a point |
| 08:17.05 | gambler | this is alot longer than I thought |
| 08:30.35 | tomgibara | It's interesting to see how much architectural cross-over there is between Android and Chrome. |
| 08:30.37 | *** join/#android muthu (n=sara@59.92.89.234) |
| 08:30.52 | umdk1d3 | tomgibara: yea they even mentioned android in the cartoon |
| 08:31.14 | umdk1d3 | and they have gears in both platforms now |
| 08:35.32 | tomgibara | I wonder if V8 will be appropriate for Android |
| 08:36.07 | tomgibara | Or even if there could be an even richer crossover between Android and Chrome |
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| 08:44.48 | zenob | hi, how can i send sms between 2 emulators ? |
| 08:51.19 | umdk1d3 | zenob: you might try the emulator port numbers |
| 08:51.24 | umdk1d3 | i know that works for phone calls |
| 08:51.30 | umdk1d3 | the port number should be in the title bar of the emulator |
| 09:01.03 | anno^da_ | http://www.engadget.com/2008/09/01/multitouch-oy-demos-cell-multitouch-display/ |
| 09:01.27 | anno^da_ | the fist multi touch display being really smooth |
| 09:01.39 | anno^da_ | while using |
| 09:02.11 | muthu | why android doesn't support MT, no one knows |
| 09:02.48 | anno^da_ | well I think the loveley patent issues |
| 09:03.07 | muthu | hmm |
| 09:05.55 | muthu | with MT you can lift and drop :) |
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| 09:13.48 | muthu | the android team has done a great job |
| 09:13.58 | muthu | with the APIDemos |
| 09:14.06 | muthu | anything you want, its there |
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| 09:38.56 | cutmasta | google starts its own browser? |
| 09:39.11 | cutmasta | oh my god, next browser someone has to support for his webapp |
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| 10:26.59 | zenob | hi, i'm trying to send sms from emulator but SmsManager.getDefault().sendTextMessage(address.getText().toString(), null, message.getText().toString(), null, null) throws some parcel exception :/ |
| 10:27.23 | zenob | anobody know why ? |
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| 10:31.41 | cutmasta | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1GDl2r0RxpE |
| 10:31.44 | cutmasta | this looks awesome |
| 10:31.46 | cutmasta | :) |
| 10:31.51 | cutmasta | *blingbling* |
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| 10:35.54 | anno^da_ | something like this I would have expected :) |
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| 10:39.36 | gambler | guerilla marketing i like it |
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| 11:27.01 | DJTachyon | is chrome or opera in Android? |
| 11:35.59 | *** part/#android muthu (n=sara@59.92.89.234) |
| 11:42.59 | duey^ | DJTachyon, neither |
| 11:43.11 | duey^ | just uses webit |
| 11:43.12 | duey^ | webkit |
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| 12:06.31 | snadge | chrome is awesome :P |
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| 12:07.13 | snadge | i wonder if it will be able to run flash :/ |
| 12:07.59 | sztanphet | sure it will, it can run plugins |
| 12:08.22 | snadge | so i can give firefox 3.0.1 the boot on my linux boxes? :P |
| 12:08.28 | snadge | its been crashing a bit lately |
| 12:09.09 | sztanphet | if you dont custimize it much then what does it matter what you use |
| 12:09.16 | snadge | i think its flash related.. but it takes out the entire browser, which is really annoying.. sometimes i have one of those moments where you click the opposite to what you meant to click, and end up with a blank browser window and no tabs.. doh ;) |
| 12:10.13 | snadge | i like this process isolation idea |
| 12:11.35 | anno^da_ | Well I dont think that chrome can compete with FF 3 including all my add ons |
| 12:11.51 | sztanphet | thats not the point of it tho |
| 12:12.06 | sztanphet | to raise the bar, and get its ideas across |
| 12:12.07 | snadge | i dont use that many add ons.. and it is open source, so presumably these people could make chrome plugins |
| 12:12.29 | snadge | if its faster than firefox 3.. and doesnt crash.. im converted already ;) |
| 12:12.34 | anno^da_ | well they could :) But how long did it take since all the plugins for FF existed. |
| 12:13.00 | anno^da_ | Well FF hasnt crashed for 20 days now so I can't argue about that. :) |
| 12:13.04 | snadge | well they're both open source .. it becomes a question of, are these plugins really worth it |
| 12:13.29 | anno^da_ | Well some are. For example Tab Mix Plus. I cant live without it. |
| 12:13.30 | sztanphet | ff has an addon interface, chrome does not, just plugins |
| 12:13.31 | snadge | it has generally been excellent for me.. but firefox 3.0.1 and flash has a known issue (i think) |
| 12:13.37 | sztanphet | or no info about that anyway |
| 12:13.52 | anno^da_ | It gives me all the tab possibilities other "new" browser claim to have. |
| 12:14.42 | snadge | i look forward to checking it out anyway |
| 12:14.49 | anno^da_ | So we will see what happens in the future. |
| 12:14.56 | sztanphet | absolutely |
| 12:15.50 | snadge | what toolkit does chrome use? will there be a linux release tomorrow? |
| 12:16.18 | anno^da_ | As long as chrome doesnt have a valuable feed reader integrated I wont change the browser. :) I got used to it having the feed reader inside the browser. |
| 12:16.26 | anno^da_ | no linux release. |
| 12:16.52 | anno^da_ | It is windows only at the moment. |
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| 12:33.18 | umdk1d3 | doh fail @ no linux chrome |
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| 13:03.17 | DJTachyon | what is webkit and how does it relate to chrome? |
| 13:03.31 | DJTachyon | seeing as webkit's website is b0rked |
| 13:04.03 | umdk1d3 | webkit is a rendering engine, like gecko |
| 13:04.07 | DJTachyon | oh |
| 13:04.17 | DJTachyon | so chrome and the android browser both use it? |
| 13:04.22 | umdk1d3 | yep |
| 13:04.29 | DJTachyon | oh wikkid |
| 13:04.30 | umdk1d3 | webkit was originally written for safari |
| 13:04.35 | umdk1d3 | by apple, then opensourced |
| 13:04.37 | DJTachyon | o_O .. really? |
| 13:04.55 | DJTachyon | doesn't iphone use safari .. or did safari fork from webkit? |
| 13:05.14 | DJTachyon | -or |
| 13:05.15 | umdk1d3 | its not necessarily a fork |
| 13:05.39 | umdk1d3 | webkit is the rendering engine under the hood--iphone, android, safari, chrome all use it, almost like a library |
| 13:06.03 | umdk1d3 | firefox uses gecko under its hood |
| 13:06.10 | mikez5 | Actually Apple started with kHTML (the KDE browser engine) for Safari |
| 13:06.22 | umdk1d3 | oh cool i didnt know that |
| 13:06.32 | mikez5 | They released WebKit as open source, and Nokia got it running on the S60 phone. |
| 13:06.41 | umdk1d3 | i remember khtml being a pretty decent engine for its time |
| 13:06.49 | mikez5 | And now Google is using it for android and Chrome |
| 13:07.26 | DJTachyon | well good .. at least there is some consensus ... |
| 13:08.03 | DJTachyon | I was surprised that Apple was so nonchalant about Android, but if they are all using the same code, then I'm not surprised. |
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| 13:08.14 | mikez5 | android and Chrome are similar in the sense that they both use processes to keep one bad app (android) or web page or plugin (Chrome) from crashing the whole thing. |
| 13:08.46 | DJTachyon | cool :) |
| 13:11.05 | *** join/#android muthu (n=sara@59.92.78.212) |
| 13:11.38 | DJTachyon | lol incognito mode ... |
| 13:12.11 | cutmasta | DJTachyon, "porn mode" |
| 13:12.13 | cutmasta | ;) |
| 13:12.25 | muthu | anyone tried IE 8? |
| 13:12.31 | cutmasta | baaa |
| 13:12.41 | cutmasta | does it run on linux? :P |
| 13:12.44 | cutmasta | so no option |
| 13:12.45 | DJTachyon | indeed ... |
| 13:12.45 | cutmasta | for me |
| 13:13.18 | muthu | me too.. the last one i ran is IE 5 |
| 13:21.32 | Dougie187 | all IE's suck. |
| 13:21.33 | Dougie187 | lol |
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| 13:56.59 | muthu | can a view be built in a separate thread and then merged back to main thread when done? |
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| 15:00.59 | jasta | woo, i am super tired |
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| 15:42.43 | muthu | is chrome out yet? |
| 15:43.15 | muthu | that's it.. msft is done! |
| 15:47.43 | jasta | are you predicting the demise of Microsoft based on competition in a segment where they are giving away their product for free? |
| 15:48.05 | muthu | yes |
| 15:48.26 | jasta | my follow-up question is then, are you an idiot? |
| 15:48.43 | muthu | lol |
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| 15:49.18 | muthu | only idiots ask other such a thing ;) |
| 15:55.53 | muthu | hope chrome comes out with a linux version |
| 15:57.37 | sztanphet | you will be quite disappointed methinks, google chrome wont change the world and its not revolutionary |
| 15:57.55 | zhobbs | I've never heard of it |
| 15:58.12 | muthu | we need to wait and see |
| 16:00.26 | muthu | judging by android standards.. chrome would be fantastic! |
| 16:00.35 | jasta | because android standards are low? |
| 16:00.56 | muthu | jasta: why is the android standard low? |
| 16:01.12 | muthu | its the best mobile development platform available as of today |
| 16:01.20 | jasta | well, the way you phrased that made no sense |
| 16:01.53 | jasta | if you say judging by <x>, <y> will be great! you are implying that <x> has a low bar set, so <y> will easily beat it. otherwise, you wouldn't make the comparison. |
| 16:02.17 | muthu | ha, again you picking on the grammar |
| 16:02.22 | muthu | that's not i meant |
| 16:02.27 | Cedric2 | Jeez Jasta, can you chill out? |
| 16:02.28 | jasta | this isn't grammar, actually, it's just how you think |
| 16:03.18 | jasta | Cedric2: chill out? i'm not really wound up. |
| 16:03.25 | zhobbs | I took it as muthu intended it, android is fantastic, so you can assume that chrome will be |
| 16:03.33 | muthu | yup |
| 16:03.46 | muthu | jasta is weird and crazy |
| 16:04.01 | Cedric2 | I know, but there is no need to be so confrontational with everyone |
| 16:04.02 | sztanphet | attack of the fanbois |
| 16:04.10 | muthu | haha |
| 16:04.29 | jasta | sztanphet: i'm anything but a fanboy. |
| 16:04.46 | sztanphet | yes, i didnt mean you |
| 16:05.00 | muthu | jasta: he meant the attack is on you |
| 16:05.15 | muthu | from us fanbois :)) |
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| 16:05.35 | jasta | ahh yes, well in that case you certainly are. |
| 16:07.55 | jasta | hey muthu, do they still have the caste system in India? i mean, is it still a strong social force? |
| 16:08.21 | muthu | the caste system is still there.. yes |
| 16:08.36 | jasta | and which were you born into? |
| 16:08.37 | muthu | however things are changing slowly |
| 16:09.44 | *** join/#android anno^da_ (n=anno^da@p5B07FDE4.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 16:09.47 | muthu | there's religion.. then caste.. then subcaste.. then groups within them.. then subgroups |
| 16:09.53 | muthu | and so on and on and on.. |
| 16:10.18 | jasta | well, i'm curious where you fit into it. |
| 16:10.31 | muthu | just like the many languages and dialects |
| 16:10.53 | muthu | jasta: what do you know about the caste system? |
| 16:10.56 | bricode | Is there any plan to have Android move to kernel 2.6.26? |
| 16:11.06 | jasta | muthu: hardly anything, really, but i am curious about it. |
| 16:11.38 | jasta | i'm not sure i trust wikipedia to give me a complete picture of it, either :) |
| 16:11.45 | zhobbs | anyone using the sdk with kde? I can't get sound to work in the emulator if arts is around |
| 16:12.14 | muthu | zhobbs: me too |
| 16:12.31 | muthu | but anyways i'm planning to get rid of kde |
| 16:12.37 | muthu | just stick to gnome |
| 16:12.42 | zhobbs | esd with kde seems to work, just was a pain to setup last time |
| 16:13.53 | muthu | jasta: as an example, this was my last tweet: |
| 16:14.34 | muthu | <PROTECTED> |
| 16:15.00 | muthu | http://twitter.com/intellibitz |
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| 16:39.47 | muthu | is mark murphy here? |
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| 16:50.25 | jasta | sigh, i left my personal laptop on my desk at work and someone decided to pile a bunch of boxes and shit on top of it |
| 16:50.31 | jasta | scratched the hell out of the surface |
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| 17:32.11 | zhobbs | jasta: you were wanting to be able to pass in an InputStream to MediaPlayer right? guess there is no way right? |
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| 17:42.46 | jasta | zhobbs: basically, yes. the local HTTP server workaround will not work except in very special cases. |
| 17:43.24 | jasta | basically it can only work for computed audio streams, not for anything based on the network |
| 17:44.16 | zhobbs | I'm trying to figure out how to parse out shoutcast meta data and just pass the mp3 data to media player: http://www.smackfu.com/stuff/programming/shoutcast.html |
| 17:44.19 | jasta | actually, that's not accurate. it can only work when buffering is unnecessary, so the audio can be provided in real time |
| 17:44.40 | jasta | zhobbs: Diggin did that, but of course the hack is just as broken as Five's. |
| 17:44.48 | jasta | he strips it out and write to disk, then points the mediaplayer at that file |
| 17:44.56 | zhobbs | yeah, that's what I was thinking about doing |
| 17:44.57 | jasta | then rotates them every X bytes |
| 17:45.10 | jasta | but it's totally pointless to waste your time on this. the user will be furious. |
| 17:45.13 | zhobbs | then you gotta pay attention to the buffering status and stuff |
| 17:45.28 | zhobbs | jasta: what do you mean? |
| 17:45.28 | jasta | the audio will stutter. |
| 17:45.52 | zhobbs | the audio stutters with diggin's implementation? |
| 17:45.58 | jasta | yes. |
| 17:46.04 | zhobbs | why? |
| 17:46.10 | jasta | think about it, you don't have unlimited storage on disk, you have to rotate out those temporary files |
| 17:46.19 | zhobbs | ohhh...I see |
| 17:46.21 | zhobbs | ouch... |
| 17:46.28 | jasta | when you do, the MediaPlayer will need to tear down and reinitialize on a new file. this isn't a realtime OS, so it won't b seamless. |
| 17:46.35 | zhobbs | yeah, that's bad |
| 17:46.41 | jasta | also, if the stream chokes (playback stops because the buffer is empty), you will have no way to tell the user "uhh, sorry, buffering." |
| 17:46.48 | jasta | because the mediaplayer is just SIMPLY TOO FUCKING BROKEN |
| 17:47.03 | zhobbs | yeah, need to be able to just pass an input stream |
| 17:47.27 | jasta | yes, and also the buffering strategy needs to either be moved to the user's control in this case, or it needs to be much better documented and implemented correctly |
| 17:47.41 | jasta | the buffering strategy right now is a big part of the problem. its why the local HTTP server hack won't even work. |
| 17:47.57 | jasta | of course, the local HTTP server hack is a terrible mess anyway and shouldn't be the recommended strategy in the first place |
| 17:48.27 | jasta | another thing to think about, the MediaPlayer when streaming from HTTP caches its own content to disk, so that it can actually buffer ahead of playback |
| 17:48.44 | zhobbs | hmmm, so for shoutcast sounds like just don't fetch the meta data |
| 17:48.59 | jasta | so you get simultaneous writes to disk in my case (and in other similar ones), which will destroy performance |
| 17:49.12 | zhobbs | jasta: exactly, I was wondering if there was a way to buffer to disk somehow without having to rotate files |
| 17:49.28 | zhobbs | they are doing it somehow |
| 17:49.28 | jasta | zhobbs: save your sanity, wait for 1.1 |
| 17:49.58 | jasta | If you really want to pursue it, you can talk to the Diggin author but it is clear to me from my conversations with him that he is using the same hack Five used. |
| 17:50.08 | jasta | which i tore out because the user can detect the problems with it |
| 17:51.49 | zhobbs | hmm, might just not deal with the meta data for now |
| 17:52.14 | jasta | my plan is to just reduce granularity of buffering progress from 0 to 100 (nothing in between), and fail to detect choking. |
| 17:52.24 | jasta | but also not release Five officially. |
| 17:52.44 | jasta | i'm unwilling to support a program that is designed this way |
| 17:52.53 | jasta | so, when source is out, i will just fucking fix it myself |
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| 17:53.01 | jasta | and hopefully Google will accept these patches |
| 17:54.09 | zhobbs | yeah, that's a pain.... |
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| 17:55.12 | jasta | i'm also designing my local HTTP server in such a way that it can be torn out once the MediaPlayer works as expected |
| 17:55.21 | jasta | i'm encapsulating most of its logic in an InputStream |
| 17:55.38 | jasta | but seriously, stay the hell away from streaming audio :) |
| 17:55.48 | zhobbs | hehe |
| 17:56.13 | jasta | *maybe* they will fix the buffering update problem for 1.0, in which case the local http server approach becomes somewhat workable, albeit inefficient |
| 17:56.29 | jasta | but there's simply no way we're going to see anything in the way of a better API for 1.0 |
| 17:57.27 | zhobbs | jasta: how big does the diggin player let that file get? |
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| 18:00.21 | jasta | zhobbs: i don't know, probably quite large so that he can hide this fact from the judges |
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| 18:01.33 | SanMehat | morning |
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| 18:13.02 | Dougie187 | 2 days jasta |
| 18:14.27 | jasta | ugh, yeah |
| 18:14.55 | jasta | i'm really disappointed though. one of my friends didn't get his passport in time, so he isn't coming |
| 18:15.10 | jasta | now it's just my girl and i, and my roommate. so it's kind of a weird third wheel type thing |
| 18:16.37 | Dougie187 | heh |
| 18:16.44 | Dougie187 | and your roommate is moving out soon too right? |
| 18:16.48 | zhobbs | doh, that happened to me last time I was in vegas |
| 18:17.58 | jasta | Dougie187: no, nothing about him moving out |
| 18:18.21 | jasta | i'm just so irritated that Devon waited until the last f'n minute to deal with something like his passport |
| 18:18.32 | Dougie187 | that does kinda suck |
| 18:18.32 | jasta | fuck, that's the thing he should have dealt with in January when we bought tickets |
| 18:18.37 | Dougie187 | you should slap him. |
| 18:18.45 | Dougie187 | at least you don't have to give him back money? |
| 18:19.01 | jasta | no, of course not |
| 18:19.11 | jasta | he bought all his own tickets and stuff so he's just go to find some way to reuse them if he wants to |
| 18:19.18 | jasta | if not, he just blew $1500 |
| 18:19.18 | Dougie187 | cool |
| 18:19.32 | jasta | but now he's probably going to go alone |
| 18:19.38 | Dougie187 | lol |
| 18:19.41 | Dougie187 | thats too bad for him. |
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| 18:19.49 | Dougie187 | have you read much about chrome yet? |
| 18:20.25 | sztanpet | press conf is on now |
| 18:20.40 | sztanpet | theres a stream too |
| 18:20.46 | jasta | Dougie187: i looked at the lame little comic they put together |
| 18:20.57 | Dougie187 | im reading through the comic. |
| 18:20.57 | jasta | Dougie187: sure, it sounds like an improvement, but nothing revolutionary |
| 18:21.12 | Dougie187 | but it sounds like it would be resource heavy. |
| 18:21.34 | Dougie187 | a separate process for every tab, with its own memory and data? |
| 18:21.54 | sztanpet | big deal |
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| 18:26.22 | jasta | Dougie187: above all, i don't understand why they produced a comic strip to demonstrate this. google is losing it :) |
| 18:26.39 | DJTachyon | omg what is the xml to get two buttons next to each other in linearlayout? |
| 18:26.44 | Dougie187 | and the comic strip is retardedly long. |
| 18:26.57 | Dougie187 | i don't want to read a 37 page comic about a web browser. |
| 18:27.01 | jasta | DJTachyon: make a linearlayout with orientation=horizontal and put them in it |
| 18:27.36 | Dougie187 | do they have like a demo of it or something? |
| 18:27.45 | jasta | who knows |
| 18:27.49 | jasta | probably doesn't even work or exist. |
| 18:28.31 | DJTachyon | well i want like textview (i use gravity center) then next line: 2 buttons, next line: 2 buttons, next line: 2 buttons |
| 18:29.33 | jasta | DJTachyon: ok, so make a bunch of linearlayouts. |
| 18:29.47 | jasta | views are composable, DJTachyon. you next them. |
| 18:29.49 | jasta | nest* |
| 18:30.56 | DJTachyon | ohh interesting |
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| 18:50.52 | tethridge | when is it that the verizon android phone is supposed to go on sale? |
| 18:50.58 | tethridge | sept 9th? |
| 18:51.05 | Dougie187 | lol |
| 18:51.06 | Dougie187 | verizon? |
| 18:51.14 | Dougie187 | noone has even mentioned a verizon one. |
| 18:51.16 | zhobbs | feb 31 I thought? |
| 18:51.17 | tethridge | t-mobile |
| 18:51.21 | tethridge | I guess |
| 18:51.32 | zhobbs | yeah, t-mobile supposed to in a couple weeks right? |
| 18:51.35 | sztanpet | and chrome is out btw |
| 18:51.52 | Dougie187 | i don't think there is a release date for the t-mobile phone yet. |
| 18:51.53 | Dougie187 | but ionno |
| 18:52.35 | jasta | Dougie187: T-Mobile employees are hearing rumors of Oct 13th |
| 18:52.41 | Dougie187 | ohh |
| 18:52.44 | Dougie187 | thats pretty cool |
| 18:52.48 | Dougie187 | too bad im not with t-mobile |
| 18:52.57 | Dougie187 | but again, those are rumors. |
| 18:52.58 | tethridge | release date or date that it goes on sale? |
| 18:53.13 | jasta | tethridge: what's the difference for a carrier? |
| 18:53.28 | tethridge | no difference for me. I meant to say t-mobile |
| 18:53.38 | tethridge | I get t-mobile and verizon mixed up |
| 18:53.43 | tethridge | both services I don't have |
| 18:54.19 | Dougie187 | i wanna know sprints release date |
| 18:54.26 | tethridge | jasta, is that the rumored date it will go on sale? |
| 18:54.31 | jasta | tethridge: yes. |
| 18:54.59 | jasta | currently, i'm not considering switching to T-Mobile. |
| 18:55.09 | jasta | i'm just hoping that the phone is a world phone and i can toss an AT&T sim in it. |
| 18:55.15 | jasta | i really don't care if that breaks the Android market, either. |
| 18:56.10 | tethridge | you guys been able to download chrome yet? |
| 18:56.33 | tethridge | the server must be getting hammered because I click the accept and install button and it disables and nothing happens |
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| 18:58.12 | anno^da_ | I will try later on |
| 18:58.20 | anno^da_ | perhaps there will be some torrents up |
| 18:58.32 | anno^da_ | all mass media site informed about that new release |
| 18:59.12 | anno^da_ | even the biggest TV stations informed about it |
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| 19:19.00 | jasta | hmm, interesting |
| 19:19.07 | jasta | http://androidguys.com/2008/09/01/from-dream-to-prototype/ |
| 19:19.12 | jasta | read the 3rd comment from SciFoo Camp Invitee |
| 19:19.19 | jasta | god i hope that's tru e:) |
| 19:19.47 | anno^da_ | I really really want to believe that |
| 19:20.24 | jasta | me too, and the source at least doesn't seem ridiculous |
| 19:20.33 | anno^da_ | Just my experience in the leak of other hardware products in front of the release makes it hard to believe that. |
| 19:20.39 | jasta | he at least gives us reasonable evidence ;) |
| 19:21.09 | anno^da_ | Yeah well |
| 19:21.25 | anno^da_ | it is a comment so it is not more evidence then the rest on this site |
| 19:25.13 | anno^da_ | But jasta it has to be true. :-) |
| 19:25.22 | anno^da_ | How was Ireland ? |
| 19:27.00 | zhobbs | wait, what are you hoping is true? |
| 19:28.24 | anno^da_ | read the 3rd comment from the above mentioned news entry by the android guys |
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| 19:30.16 | zhobbs | just hoping that the final G1 is cleaner than the ones we've seen? |
| 19:38.53 | DJTachyon | why can't i add xml elements anymore? wtf |
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| 20:12.53 | anno^da_ | zhobbs: Yeah thats the point. |
| 20:13.27 | anno^da_ | Because we only know some sketches but havent seen real pictures. Except the leaked ones from which we dont know the source. |
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| 21:07.34 | km- | does anyone here know if there will be push e-mail support with activesync for android? |
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| 21:13.51 | jasta | km-: highly unlikely. |
| 21:14.13 | jasta | they could do it a number of different ways, but given that they shaved off so many luxury items already, i really doubt they did this. |
| 21:14.28 | zhobbs | highly likely, just might be done by a third party |
| 21:14.32 | zhobbs | for now |
| 21:14.32 | km- | I'm a blackberry addict |
| 21:14.44 | km- | I'm thinking of preordering the G1 because I have faith in android as an awesome platform |
| 21:15.00 | km- | but I still want to be able to do what I do with my existing smartphone, like have enterprise class e-mail that "just works" |
| 21:15.46 | zhobbs | there will be an imap email client |
| 21:15.55 | km- | shipped with the unit or as an addon? |
| 21:16.23 | zhobbs | I think there's gotta be one on the handset out of the gate |
| 21:16.26 | km- | or rather I should say, one authored/QA'd by google |
| 21:16.42 | km- | I'm sure people will write George's IMAP Client v.0000004 or whatever |
| 21:16.52 | km- | and the fun will begin with debugging that ;) |
| 21:17.32 | km- | I'm wondering, has anyone had a handle on the HTC Dream or G1 and tried typing on it? Is that side thing really awkward to type over? |
| 21:17.46 | jasta | km-: ActiveSync is a publicly documented protocol now, and open soruce devs can implement it free of patent enforcement. |
| 21:17.59 | jasta | but that will require that someone do that. that said, it is impossible to tell if someone cares enough to do it. |
| 21:18.08 | jasta | or if google will take the project on themselves and pay the license fees |
| 21:18.37 | km- | interesting project to hack on |
| 21:20.21 | jasta | it would be a very difficult project to hack on, subject to Google's good design as well. |
| 21:20.25 | km- | are there any other devices available that can run android? I'm assuming the software isn't necessarily limited to cell phones. |
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| 21:20.37 | jasta | km-: it is officially. |
| 21:20.41 | km- | ahh |
| 21:20.50 | jasta | the platform is very immature right now, so don't get too excited. |
| 21:21.24 | km- | hopefully it's at least feature complete for 1.0 at this point, since phones will be available in a month with it |
| 21:21.42 | jasta | well, it's feature complete for certain definitions of feature and complete. |
| 21:21.48 | km- | hahaha |
| 21:21.50 | jasta | i'm sure it will work as a phone :) |
| 21:21.57 | jasta | maybe it'll make a pispoor smartphone, though :) |
| 21:22.39 | km- | that would be pretty damning for them |
| 21:23.03 | km- | it's being marketed as a smartphone, right? |
| 21:23.25 | jasta | yes, but please just realize that we know hardly anything at this point. the most concrete information available is the SD Kitself, at 0.9 right now. |
| 21:23.38 | jasta | so downloda that, experiment, and if you have any questions you can direct them to /dev/null since nobody knows anything :) |
| 21:23.39 | zhobbs | km-: it'll be better than jasta is making it out.... |
| 21:24.07 | jasta | i'm not making it out to be anything. |
| 21:24.25 | zhobbs | km-: you can download the SDK and run the emulator if you want to play around with a stripped down version |
| 21:24.25 | jasta | none of us know, *at all* what it will be like. so we might as well say that. |
| 21:24.46 | km- | yeah, I tried installing some apps off code.google for it and they said that the .apk was for a different version of android or something |
| 21:25.06 | km- | my guess is the one on the site was for 0.5 and not recompiled since or something. |
| 21:25.18 | km- | was downloading eclipse at home so I could just recompile it and try again |
| 21:25.24 | zhobbs | yeah...I haven't even started with the porting to 0.9 yet.... |
| 21:25.41 | km- | I was happy just to see someone writing an ssh app |
| 21:26.14 | jasta | km-: just wait until it comes out. don't preorder it or anything. |
| 21:26.25 | jasta | go play with it for yourself when it lands in a t-mobile store or wherever. |
| 21:27.14 | km- | definitely interested in seeing whether the keyboard is comfy |
| 21:28.13 | km- | anyone talk at all about multitouch on android? |
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| 21:28.21 | jasta | also, as for the apps, browse through the top 50 winners. those are definitely going to be the most mature apps initially (other than google's, of course) |
| 21:28.22 | km- | cant really attempt to try that in the emulator |
| 21:28.38 | km- | and I doubt the G1 has it since I only see people single-touching the screen in the youtube vids |
| 21:28.41 | jasta | km-: nope, we don't know if there is multitouch on android. |
| 21:28.54 | jasta | it seems there is not |
| 21:29.03 | km- | yeah, I was kinda bummed GoCart won so much money |
| 21:29.18 | km- | I've been juggling that idea for the past couple years |
| 21:29.22 | km- | it coulda been me! |
| 21:30.00 | jasta | many of those apps have already been done, as evidenced by the numerous patents they violate :) |
| 21:30.19 | jasta | but none of them have had any public manifestations, so this is still good news :) |
| 21:30.23 | km- | violate patents? |
| 21:30.40 | SanMehat | jasta always looks on the 'bright-side' of things |
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| 21:30.49 | km- | I'm curious where you are hearing that writing an app like GoCart violates patents |
| 21:31.03 | jasta | km-: GoCart violates none that I know of, but for example, Locale violates several :) |
| 21:31.13 | km- | ahh. |
| 21:31.23 | jasta | owned by IBM, Nokia, and even M$ I believe (haven't verified the latter) |
| 21:31.49 | jasta | zhobbs: i've been meaning to ask you again about the copyright infringement problems assoicated with TuneWiki as well. |
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| 21:32.14 | jasta | where do your lyrics come from and how do you ensure the right to distribute them? |
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| 21:32.32 | jasta | i can't figure out why this app won't be barred for distribution in the US. |
| 21:32.49 | SanMehat | because zhobbs types in all the lyrics manually |
| 21:32.53 | SanMehat | (kidding) |
| 21:32.55 | km- | haha |
| 21:33.05 | km- | zhobbs is feverishly transcribing Love of Polka 5 as we speak. |
| 21:33.25 | km- | Now That's What I Call Riverdance! Volume 27. |
| 21:33.29 | SanMehat | lol |
| 21:34.18 | km- | I guess I should learn java and come up with a killer app |
| 21:34.49 | DJTachyon | any way to access audio data files directly, and change the playback speed? |
| 21:35.55 | jasta | DJTachyon: Unlikely. The MediaPlayer is pretty much WYSIWYG. As far as I can tell there is no audio or codec subsystem directly exposed to Java programmers. |
| 21:36.01 | km- | I think android needs a cooler media player, if they're planning to go-to-market with the one in the emulator. |
| 21:36.19 | jasta | km-: Well, TuneWiki is shaping up to be an excellent default. |
| 21:36.41 | km- | there would have to be an audio subsystem for games and stuff |
| 21:36.44 | jasta | But as I said earlier, I don't see how it can be set for US distribution. |
| 21:36.49 | DJTachyon | tunewiki? they made their own media player? |
| 21:36.51 | jasta | km-: No, it's all through the MediaPlayer. |
| 21:36.57 | km- | whaaa? |
| 21:37.06 | km- | the games use the media player to render sound? |
| 21:37.32 | km- | I find that extremely difficult to believe, why would that be the case? |
| 21:38.04 | DJTachyon | well maybe b/c the "media player" is for playing media .. not to be a huge mass of garbage code and features like windows media player |
| 21:38.13 | DJTachyon | so that is all it does ... |
| 21:38.17 | km- | ohhhh |
| 21:38.28 | km- | MediaPlayer class, not necessarily the full-blown Media Player Application. |
| 21:38.30 | DJTachyon | the thing in the emulator is just a front end to the emulator |
| 21:38.33 | DJTachyon | yeah |
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| 21:39.10 | DJTachyon | i want to be able to load all the data from an mp3 into memory as raw audio and just around the data as i see fit |
| 21:39.10 | km- | can you extend MediaPlayer and do what you want? |
| 21:39.19 | km- | then just have your app use the extended mediaplayer? |
| 21:39.23 | DJTachyon | well there isnt much to do .. |
| 21:39.25 | DJTachyon | but yes |
| 21:39.31 | DJTachyon | http://code.google.com/android/toolbox/apis/media.html |
| 21:40.25 | DJTachyon | there is a code sample in the APIDemo sample |
| 21:40.32 | km- | yeah. |
| 21:40.41 | km- | is the android OS itself open-source? |
| 21:40.59 | km- | the API document does make it kinda simplistic. |
| 21:41.03 | DJTachyon | after 1.0/G1 release it is suppose to be |
| 21:42.06 | km- | Speeding up or slowing down samples would be relatively easy audio-wise in the code, but if you're stuck only working with what the API document is giving to you, you're kinda screwed I guess |
| 21:42.15 | DJTachyon | yeah .. |
| 21:42.20 | DJTachyon | im gonna explore the class some more |
| 21:43.13 | km- | time to implement your own audioplayer class :) |
| 21:43.46 | DJTachyon | hehe |
| 21:44.11 | plusminus_ | the date-field used for Sms-Storage is strange, it got values like: |
| 21:44.23 | plusminus_ | 606136936 |
| 21:44.28 | plusminus_ | which is not a unix timestamp |
| 21:44.46 | plusminus_ | anyone knows what it is? |
| 21:45.39 | km- | I dont know if this issue exists in java, but are you looking at the value such that the program assumes it's an integer value when it should be a time value? |
| 21:45.51 | plusminus_ | yeah its a long field an I used int... |
| 21:46.11 | plusminus_ | i just thought about that when I typed the above ^^ |
| 21:46.32 | km- | cool, glad you figured it out |
| 21:46.42 | km- | ok, time for me to make the commute home, catch you guys later |
| 21:46.43 | km- | & |
| 21:47.38 | DJTachyon | hmm i wonder how fast the media player is |
| 21:47.56 | DJTachyon | i could do crazy stuff with the seek function to try and get a pitch bend :P |
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| 21:54.02 | DJTachyon | is there a msec wait function? |
| 21:54.29 | romainguy_ | DJTachyon: Thread.sleep()? |
| 21:54.50 | DJTachyon | probably .. need to put it in a for loop |
| 21:55.04 | romainguy_ | why do you need to sleep in a loop? |
| 21:55.15 | dmoffett | There is a class called Timer you might want to check. |
| 21:55.38 | DJTachyon | or that |
| 21:55.41 | DJTachyon | timer is good too |
| 21:56.18 | DJTachyon | im a procedureal embedded C expert, I havent done OO in years.. |
| 21:56.28 | DJTachyon | -e |
| 21:59.59 | jasta | sorry had to step away |
| 22:00.54 | jasta | actually, you probably want to use Handler instead of a timer. |
| 22:01.18 | jasta | a timer requires a thread, whereas Android's internal event loop can do crude timing in the same thread as it processes other events |
| 22:01.36 | jasta | look at Handler#sendMessageDelayed |
| 22:07.32 | DJTachyon | man im so lost :P |
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| 22:10.17 | jasta | DJTachyon: let me explain at a high level... |
| 22:10.27 | DJTachyon | im editing the play local audio file demo to try an seek to say 10000msec into the file, then once every 2 msec seek to 10000+i .. where I increments every 2 msec |
| 22:10.39 | jasta | Android applications have a "main" thread which can interact with the UI and process other Android events. |
| 22:10.59 | jasta | This thread is constantly waiting in an event loop processing these events, as implemented by Looper.loop() though you need not worry about that. |
| 22:11.03 | jasta | It was setup for you. |
| 22:11.31 | DJTachyon | alrighty |
| 22:11.37 | jasta | You can inject and handle arbitrary events in that event loop by using a Handler (a way to both deliver and receive messages on the loop). |
| 22:11.56 | jasta | when you create a handler with new Handler() it automatically associates with the event loop on the thread in which it was made. |
| 22:12.10 | DJTachyon | interesting |
| 22:12.23 | jasta | a feature that you can use here of the Handler and the event loop is that you can send "timed" (delayed) messages. |
| 22:12.36 | jasta | you can, for example, say "send my message in 50ms." |
| 22:12.37 | anno^da_ | Afer using Chrome I dont understand whats so special about it. (besides the fast JS Engine and the process for each tab) I cant open a new Tab while entering a new adress and pressing enter. So it fails for me. :) There is no possibility to setup any tab behaviour. Or am I just spoiled by TabMix Plus + FF :D |
| 22:12.53 | jasta | and your handler will be woken up to deal with your message in that time, at least as granular as android's event loop can guarantee. |
| 22:13.15 | DJTachyon | well seeing as the seekto function is down to the msec, thats all i can hope for |
| 22:13.37 | DJTachyon | im not opposed to scheduling a thread if I can figure out Android implementation of Timer |
| 22:13.39 | jasta | so, if you need to have timed events, you can abuse the main android event loop (with the Handler) and pass dleayed messages then handle them |
| 22:13.57 | jasta | it will be far more efficient than creating a separate thread to wait and fire events like a timer. |
| 22:18.01 | zhobbs | anno^da_: chrome fails for me without mouse gestures....we all use our browser so much that we are stuck in our ways |
| 22:21.54 | anno^da_ | zhobbs: true. I'm missing NoScript, Adblock, etc etc etc :-) |
| 22:22.36 | romainguy_ | the only thing I miss is adblock |
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| 22:23.02 | anno^da_ | romainguy: Well it really depends on the things you use. |
| 22:23.20 | anno^da_ | I could mention 7 plugins in addition that I'm missing |
| 22:23.20 | jasta | i don't get what the excitement is behind Chrome. is it really just a mild architectural improvement that is generating all this buzz? |
| 22:23.32 | anno^da_ | it is. |
| 22:24.05 | hpm | anybody have any experience getting oprofile to work on android? |
| 22:24.29 | DJTachyon | chrome wont even run where I work, there is a conflict with Symantec Endpoint, and Chrome crashes over remote desktop when loading mendu options |
| 22:24.32 | morrildl | jasta: it's a "mild" architectural solution that is extremely overdue in browsers and a real bitch to implement, without breaking existing browser JavaScript conventions |
| 22:24.50 | morrildl | jasta: aside from that, you're more or less right :) |
| 22:25.03 | anno^da_ | :) |
| 22:25.15 | morrildl | jasta: FF 3.1 will have tracemonkey or Tamarin or whatever it's called today, so other browsers are definitely stepping up. Should be interesting |
| 22:25.33 | morrildl | Once IE is the slowest JS engine by an order of magnitude, it'll be interesting to see what MSFT does :) |
| 22:25.52 | morrildl | ...or perhaps they'll surprise us with a fast JS engine of their own, who knows |
| 22:25.54 | jasta | Nothing, probably. The slower they move, the more it hurts companies like Google :) |
| 22:26.16 | anno^da_ | morrildl: But I dont think that the JS performance is the most important point if you look at a browser. (for me) |
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| 22:26.38 | anno^da_ | if you look for |
| 22:36.12 | DJTachyon | android mplayer does not like what im trying to do :P |
| 22:37.04 | jasta | DJTachyon: i will caution you that the MediaPlayer class really sucks ;) |
| 22:37.12 | DJTachyon | yeah it does .. |
| 22:37.15 | jasta | i would say you are quite likely to encounter problems with it |
| 22:37.58 | DJTachyon | well I dont know if it is my code or media player not doing what I want .. I thought it was a pretty easy thing to try |
| 22:38.30 | jasta | what are you trying to do? |
| 22:39.53 | DJTachyon | pitch bend a track by seeking .. wait a msec, seek forward two msec .. |
| 22:40.02 | DJTachyon | should play twice as fast .. |
| 22:40.20 | DJTachyon | if the mediaplayer is fast enough |
| 22:42.38 | DJTachyon | so i need to schedule the code to do a mMediaPlayer.seekTo(10000+i); where i increments by 2 every 1 msec |
| 22:43.25 | jasta | well, there's a couple of problems here. |
| 22:43.30 | DJTachyon | im trying to do this in the MediaPlayerDemo_Audio.java file |
| 22:43.34 | jasta | a) we don't know the precision of the MediaPlayer. |
| 22:43.46 | jasta | b) we don't know the precision guaranteed by the emulator |
| 22:43.58 | jasta | we know that Linux should give us precision at least as good as 1ms. |
| 22:44.03 | DJTachyon | yeah, its more of an academic excercise |
| 22:44.42 | DJTachyon | would the Java Timer be the best bet? or should I try making a handler message? |
| 22:44.44 | snadge | to pitch bend you've either got to resample the audio .. or play it back at a faster/slower sampling rate |
| 22:44.48 | jasta | so, in order to eliminate a and/or b without source, i'd try devising a simple test that seeks it forward very small increments in a tight loop, and then also try a repeating message loop |
| 22:44.57 | jasta | DJTachyon: you should definitely use a Handler. |
| 22:45.00 | jasta | and sendMessageDelayed |
| 22:45.05 | DJTachyon | i know snadge |
| 22:45.10 | DJTachyon | but we work with what we got ;) |
| 22:45.11 | snadge | i'm failing to see how seeking forward by a millisecond will pitch bend ;) |
| 22:45.28 | jasta | yeah i can't actually validate whether your alogirhtm is inherently workable :) |
| 22:45.33 | snadge | time stretch maybe |
| 22:45.34 | jasta | i can only speak to the timing issues you require :) |
| 22:45.39 | DJTachyon | well time stretch sure |
| 22:46.00 | DJTachyon | which is more what i want anyway |
| 22:46.24 | DJTachyon | could playing the same msec twice each time also not 1/2 the speed? |
| 22:46.35 | DJTachyon | i wouldnt mind preserving the pitch anyway |
| 22:46.45 | DJTachyon | er 2x the speed rather |
| 22:46.55 | DJTachyon | im confusing myself |
| 22:46.56 | DJTachyon | :P |
| 22:47.06 | snadge | playing it twice would have the speed.. skipping 1ms every 1ms would double it |
| 22:47.11 | snadge | have/halve |
| 22:47.17 | DJTachyon | right :P |
| 22:47.25 | DJTachyon | that what im trying to do |
| 22:47.44 | DJTachyon | and seeing as we dont have direct access to the decoded audio data |
| 22:47.57 | snadge | its going to sound a bit dodgy though.. and dont ask me how you change the speed that way, in non multiples of 2 |
| 22:48.09 | DJTachyon | ;) |
| 22:48.14 | snadge | that would probably involve resampling as well |
| 22:48.35 | DJTachyon | right |
| 22:48.45 | DJTachyon | im just doing this as an exercise |
| 22:49.01 | snadge | i should go to work :( |
| 22:49.08 | DJTachyon | ;) |
| 22:49.11 | DJTachyon | i should leave work |
| 22:54.09 | jasta | regardless, you can detect the timing of both Android's event loop and the MediaPlayer as i mentioned above. |
| 22:54.13 | jasta | if you're stil curious |
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| 23:03.01 | DJTachyon | hmm |
| 23:03.08 | DJTachyon | yeah handler doesnt seem to be working for me |
| 23:03.35 | DJTachyon | i load up 10000 events, each a ms apart, and the handler increments the msec by 2 |
| 23:03.40 | DJTachyon | and seeks there |
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| 23:03.47 | DJTachyon | no luck tho |
| 23:04.36 | DJTachyon | i should play twice as fast for the first 10 sec |
| 23:04.38 | DJTachyon | it* |
| 23:05.06 | DJTachyon | meh done for today |
| 23:05.06 | DJTachyon | later all |
| 23:09.44 | jasta | if you post sample code i can help |
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| 23:12.18 | herriojr | ok, so when I include a jar file that was built into the apk, do I need to make sure it is compiled differently in some way? |
| 23:18.00 | jasta | no |
| 23:18.22 | jasta | just make sure it was compiled into a bytecode format dalvik can consume |
| 23:20.49 | herriojr | ok |
| 23:21.14 | herriojr | and if it is having issues validating certain classes, has anyone narrowed down the exact cause? |
| 23:21.18 | herriojr | or how to fix it |
| 23:24.46 | hpm | anybody have any experience getting oprofile to work on android? |
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