| 00:00.08 | Dougie187 | thats good. |
| 00:01.03 | Dougie187 | heh do you get geek days on your vacation? |
| 00:01.15 | jasta | no :) |
| 00:01.21 | jasta | i wouldnt want any anyway |
| 00:01.24 | Dougie187 | so no coding i take it |
| 00:01.36 | Dougie187 | true. its not much of a vacation if you just do work the whole time. |
| 00:04.57 | *** join/#android chouman82 (n=chouman8@65.173.101.2) |
| 00:05.12 | *** join/#android eton_ (n=eton@ppp-58-8-6-189.revip2.asianet.co.th) |
| 00:07.21 | jasta | my hack is going to be the single largest, most complex component in the whole project |
| 00:07.25 | jasta | sigh |
| 00:07.36 | Dougie187 | lol is it worth it then? |
| 00:08.01 | jasta | i have reason to believe that Google is not going to make the change i require otherwise |
| 00:08.04 | Dougie187 | suse is a lot better then i remember it was. |
| 00:08.06 | jasta | not for 1.0, and not after. |
| 00:08.10 | Dougie187 | thats too bad. |
| 00:08.12 | Dougie187 | then it is worth it |
| 00:08.20 | Dougie187 | because otherwise you can't use your app period |
| 00:10.22 | romainguy_ | jasta: definitely not for 1.0, but why not after? |
| 00:10.33 | romainguy_ | what's the feature you need? |
| 00:10.37 | Dougie187 | caching |
| 00:10.43 | Dougie187 | oh wait. |
| 00:10.46 | Dougie187 | no the inputstream thing |
| 00:10.48 | Dougie187 | for mediaplayer |
| 00:11.24 | Dougie187 | if i am not mistaken. |
| 00:14.18 | jasta | well actually caching would be better :) |
| 00:15.11 | Dougie187 | i listen. |
| 00:15.13 | jasta | romainguy_: i need the MediaPlayer to be more flexible, either to support an arbitrary input stream or to support caching the content that it streams. |
| 00:16.30 | jasta | romainguy_: i am hearing that the problem is very deep in libpv, and the engineers responsible for this code don't think it's gonna get changed. |
| 00:17.21 | Dougie187 | well after the source is released... couldnt you *attempt* to patch it and submit a patch? |
| 00:17.22 | jasta | Dougie187: really though,t he local http server hack wouldn't be too complex if i didn't have to manage the complexity of a synchronized download manager on top of it with seekable content |
| 00:17.33 | jasta | there are 4 major requirements of this design that all add to its enormous complexity |
| 00:17.57 | jasta | Dougie187: yes, and i probably will have to. but then i'd have to go through the headache of getting such a massive hackjob written and accepted upstream |
| 00:18.05 | jasta | with no chance of Five being finished by that time |
| 00:18.36 | jasta | it's not all bad, the exercise in complex design will be kind of fun :) |
| 00:18.36 | romainguy_ | jasta: ah well, if it's in libpv,... |
| 00:19.06 | jasta | the two most complex pieces aren't even the local http server hack, that just adds to the overall complexity a fair bit |
| 00:19.32 | *** join/#android parti (n=parti@77.163.25.244) |
| 00:19.39 | jasta | they are: managing downloads which are not necessarily connected to a media player (so not being served) and then suddenly mid way through they may need to be up to serve. |
| 00:19.49 | jasta | and also to manage seeking in this stream proxy. that will be the real killer. |
| 00:20.23 | jasta | and of course, all of the major pieces of this have to communicate back and forth. so there will need to be a lot of careful thought on synchronization and IPC (much of which will be through files, i think) |
| 00:20.43 | jasta | and with all this complexity, graceful handling errors will be nightmarish all behind the scenes of a totally transparent music player hehe |
| 00:21.04 | jasta | and, of course, adding yet more complexity is the seeming brokenness of MediaPlayer's buffering listener, which neither behaves sensibly or as documented. |
| 00:22.49 | jasta | oh, and not to mention on top of all this, it will be the bottle neck right behind media decoding/playback, so it has to be as efficient as possible. |
| 00:23.16 | jasta | this, by the way, is why i need unit testing to work for complex services ;) |
| 00:23.24 | jasta | i can't even begin to imagine implementing all of this without robust unit testing |
| 00:24.19 | gambler | teach me about good testing |
| 00:24.34 | jasta | uhm, maybe later |
| 00:24.42 | chouman82 | hey i am having a little problem with android |
| 00:24.59 | jasta | lucky ;) |
| 00:25.01 | chouman82 | here is the error |
| 00:25.05 | chouman82 | http://www.pastebin.ca/1186940 |
| 00:25.40 | chouman82 | i am trying to use the smack api |
| 00:26.14 | *** join/#android Hai-Fai (n=jarmo@hoasnet-fe35dd00-42.dhcp.inet.fi) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 00:26.14 | *** join/#android borism_ (n=boris@195-50-199-250-dsl.krw.estpak.ee) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 00:26.17 | *** join/#android SanMehat (n=san@nat/google/session) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 00:26.23 | chouman82 | don't know if any of you guys have see this before |
| 00:26.39 | *** join/#android yeonhoo (n=yeonhoo@189.58.80.23.adsl.gvt.net.br) |
| 00:26.54 | gambler | my testing I just write a bunch of testing classes that a main method invokes....I dont know if there is a better way...never tried Junit |
| 00:27.39 | gambler | i dont even know what instrumentation is/means |
| 00:29.06 | gambler | google wasnt helpful last time i looked |
| 00:30.05 | chouman82 | i am trying to load a third party jar in android |
| 00:30.15 | cliff_ | that's not going to work |
| 00:30.48 | chouman82 | they ar enot allowing any third party library? |
| 00:31.37 | cliff_ | the issue is that android doesn't use java bytecode |
| 00:32.07 | herriojr | why won't third party jars work? |
| 00:32.41 | gambler | cliff ^^ u need to recompile them |
| 00:32.52 | cliff_ | right, i didn't know whether he meant without recompilation |
| 00:33.30 | herriojr | so, if it were included in the apk file, it's fine? |
| 00:34.32 | SanMehat | gambler: re: |
| 00:34.42 | gambler | hi san |
| 00:34.56 | *** mode/#android [+o SanMehat] by ChanServ |
| 00:35.20 | SanMehat | whats shaking? |
| 00:35.26 | chouman82 | this used to work in m5 but not in version 0.9... did they just take that out now? |
| 00:36.03 | chouman82 | and so if i include the source in the apk then it'll be fine? |
| 00:37.12 | gambler | im re-learning how to deal with concurrency at the moment. |
| 00:37.42 | xavd | the plugin and the new ant script generated by activitycreator should support external jars |
| 00:38.01 | gambler | I havent written much code lately |
| 00:38.06 | gambler | in relative terms... |
| 00:38.15 | xavd | but if you have issue installing the file, check the logcat output for erorrs |
| 00:39.27 | SanMehat | you make it sound like the last thing you coded on was a PDP/11... :) |
| 00:39.32 | gambler | haha no the gambling took over my life for awhile...I coded a successful commercial app as recently as 5 years ago |
| 00:40.48 | chouman82 | the logcat output errors are here |
| 00:40.50 | chouman82 | http://www.pastebin.ca/1186940 |
| 00:41.59 | SanMehat | i haven't played poker in sooo long |
| 00:42.11 | *** join/#android Hai-Fai (n=jarmo@hoasnet-fe35dd00-42.dhcp.inet.fi) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 00:42.14 | *** join/#android borism (n=boris@195-50-199-250-dsl.krw.estpak.ee) |
| 00:42.26 | gambler | ive actually got this email today from a reporter here who wants me to go on tv and talk about my experience |
| 00:42.34 | gambler | thats not really my thing tho |
| 00:43.36 | gambler | SanMehat, this is the latest thing online: http://code.google.com/p/openholdembot/ |
| 00:44.41 | gambler | one of the main reasons I stopped playing |
| 00:45.19 | SanMehat | woah |
| 00:45.48 | gambler | Ive talked to some people who have built scary technology around that |
| 00:49.07 | gambler | that framework works really good too. Ive written a little bit of code for research and its very solid. |
| 00:49.07 | gambler | w.r.t. to screen scraping at least |
| 00:49.18 | SanMehat | this thing is crazy |
| 00:49.37 | SanMehat | maybe i'll avoid online play |
| 00:50.48 | gambler | yah...the sites secretly love the bots too |
| 00:50.48 | SanMehat | no doubt |
| 00:55.33 | *** join/#android borism (n=boris@195-50-199-250-dsl.krw.estpak.ee) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 00:55.33 | *** join/#android Hai-Fai (n=jarmo@hoasnet-fe35dd00-42.dhcp.inet.fi) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 00:59.02 | SanMehat | sure is quiet in here... jasta must be gone :) |
| 01:00.31 | *** join/#android Dougie187 (n=doug@68.35.245.156) |
| 01:00.31 | *** join/#android BBHoss (n=bbhoss@c-68-62-170-33.hsd1.al.comcast.net) |
| 01:00.31 | *** join/#android snadge (n=snadge@starbug.ugh.net.au) |
| 01:00.31 | *** join/#android trivex` (n=trivex@CPE00112f8785ab-CM000f9f50281e.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) |
| 01:00.31 | *** join/#android mickrobk (n=mickrobk@c-67-173-250-134.hsd1.co.comcast.net) |
| 01:04.11 | *** part/#android Dougie187 (n=doug@68.35.245.156) |
| 01:05.26 | chouman82 | anyone know much about the verifier in android? |
| 01:12.17 | *** join/#android Hai-Fai (n=jarmo@hoasnet-fe35dd00-42.dhcp.inet.fi) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 01:12.20 | *** join/#android borism (n=boris@195-50-199-250-dsl.krw.estpak.ee) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 01:14.54 | *** join/#android tethridge_ (n=tale@cpe-075-177-151-223.nc.res.rr.com) |
| 01:18.31 | *** join/#android yakischloba (n=jake@209.160.56.254) |
| 01:34.08 | *** join/#android inZane- (i=nemo@dslb-084-058-026-192.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 01:39.35 | *** join/#android matt_c (n=mcroydon@137.147.45.66.cm.sunflower.com) |
| 01:46.09 | *** join/#android meshuga_ (i=meshuga@c-67-183-112-152.hsd1.wa.comcast.net) |
| 01:48.15 | *** join/#android jerkface03 (n=jerkface@S0106000d3a2c0806.vc.shawcable.net) |
| 01:59.05 | *** join/#android cbeust (n=cbeust@64-142-66-175.dsl.static.sonic.net) |
| 02:02.40 | *** join/#android tac (i=tac@12-205-123-41.client.mchsi.com) |
| 02:02.45 | tac | hi |
| 02:03.54 | tac | anyone here, i need a little help |
| 02:19.25 | *** join/#android dueynz (n=duey@203.96.223.40) |
| 02:33.20 | *** join/#android zhobbs (n=zach@220-130-197-111.HINET-IP.hinet.net) |
| 02:36.18 | tac | ? |
| 02:38.12 | zhobbs | jasta: you got any good links for getting android on HTC touch |
| 02:39.28 | zhobbs | I'm going to add a hardware database type wiki to helloandroid.com....cause once the source comes out it'd be nice to have a central place to see what devices work, etc |
| 02:39.42 | tac | i finally got android hello world working w/ eclipse,,, |
| 02:43.54 | *** join/#android Razec (n=razec@189.56.183.198) |
| 02:47.34 | jasta | zhobbs: yes, see the link from android-random.googlecode.com |
| 02:56.25 | zhobbs | jasta: thanks |
| 02:58.47 | *** join/#android yakischloba (n=jake@c-24-17-53-6.hsd1.wa.comcast.net) |
| 03:07.37 | *** join/#android dueynz (n=duey@203.96.223.40) |
| 03:13.38 | *** join/#android meshuga (i=meshuga@c-67-183-112-152.hsd1.wa.comcast.net) |
| 03:14.50 | *** join/#android muthu (n=sara@59.92.89.234) |
| 03:15.23 | muthu | hey, big day!!! |
| 03:15.49 | *** join/#android milos_ (n=milos@92.36.135.195) |
| 03:20.24 | muthu | hearing a lot of rumors |
| 03:20.35 | muthu | man.. who else on the rumor mill? |
| 03:26.55 | f00f- | everyone and their mom |
| 03:27.34 | muthu | f00f-: what's up man? |
| 03:27.37 | muthu | any news? |
| 03:27.43 | f00f- | nada |
| 03:28.03 | f00f- | you? |
| 03:28.21 | muthu | waiting on the boss.. |
| 03:29.17 | f00f- | not bad |
| 03:30.53 | *** join/#android plusminus_ (i=4421a620@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-7b406262f7fd3126) |
| 03:44.43 | SanMehat | re: |
| 03:44.54 | f00f- | tu reviens aussi? |
| 03:47.14 | *** join/#android romainguy_ (n=gfx@adsl-76-241-19-32.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net) |
| 03:52.24 | romainguy | re |
| 03:59.53 | *** join/#android BBHoss (n=bbhoss@c-68-62-170-33.hsd1.al.comcast.net) |
| 04:04.29 | zhobbs | anyone here in europe can test something for me? |
| 04:05.19 | *** join/#android jerkface03 (n=jerkface@S0106000d3a2c0806.vc.shawcable.net) |
| 04:06.23 | muthu | zhobbs: its a bit early for europeans |
| 04:06.29 | zhobbs | yeah I know |
| 04:25.35 | snadge | i want my.... i want my.. htc... |
| 04:26.03 | snadge | (to the tune of money for nothing, dire straits) |
| 04:29.01 | muthu | i want my.. i want my.. dream... |
| 04:32.49 | snadge | well the htc dream is the only model you could possibly want really |
| 04:32.56 | snadge | so i found that part redundant :p |
| 04:33.10 | snadge | doesnt the rest of their crap run windows? |
| 04:33.46 | muthu | yeah |
| 04:33.50 | muthu | mostly windows |
| 04:33.55 | snadge | i would've loved to have been a chair nearby ballmer when he found out about htc's decision to go with android |
| 04:34.08 | muthu | lol |
| 04:34.12 | muthu | you would've broke! |
| 04:34.37 | snadge | well it would be very boring being a chair.. and being propelled by steve ballmer in anger, would be relatively exciting ;) |
| 04:34.55 | snadge | an honor even lol |
| 04:35.25 | muthu | have htc stopped shipping windows? |
| 04:35.52 | snadge | i dont think so no.. but just the mere admission that they were releasing an android based phone.. when they specialise in windows mobile phones |
| 04:36.31 | muthu | yeah, that's a big downer for ballmer |
| 04:36.35 | snadge | you wouldn't bother doing that if you were happy with windows mobile |
| 04:36.45 | muthu | right |
| 04:37.31 | snadge | so .. it can be interpreted as an admission by htc, that windows mobile is inferior .. compared to an untested, and unreleased, non-existant platform... ouch ;) |
| 04:38.35 | muthu | they might have plans to drop windows in future |
| 04:38.56 | snadge | if the dream is successful for them, you can count on it |
| 04:39.10 | muthu | dream will be a huge hit |
| 04:39.23 | snadge | its all i want for christmas |
| 04:39.43 | muthu | i'll buy the first one that hits India |
| 04:40.08 | snadge | htc make great phones too.. my flatmate has a htc tytn II |
| 04:40.22 | snadge | and even though it runs windows mobile 6 .. and i hate microsoft with a passion |
| 04:40.32 | snadge | i'd have to say its better than an iphone |
| 04:40.38 | snadge | more functional |
| 04:40.44 | snadge | maybe not quite as "pretty" |
| 04:40.50 | muthu | could be |
| 04:41.15 | snadge | without a doubt.. the iphone is just a glorified ipod |
| 04:41.22 | snadge | that just happens to have a couple of phone like features |
| 04:41.32 | muthu | hates apple |
| 04:42.08 | snadge | i've decided i hate them more than microsoft.. at least microsoft doesnt try to restrict what hardware you can run their software on.. and doesnt try to limit what developers can and cant do with their software |
| 04:43.02 | muthu | yes |
| 04:43.09 | muthu | microsoft is a lot better than apple |
| 04:43.49 | snadge | have you downloaded the api yet? |
| 04:43.55 | zhobbs | is on suicide watch, found out that a feature of Tunewiki doesn't work in some countries... |
| 04:44.07 | zhobbs | no chance in adc..... |
| 04:44.29 | muthu | zhobbs: hang on |
| 04:44.38 | muthu | snadge: what api? |
| 04:44.50 | *** join/#android jerkface03 (n=jerkface@S0106000d3a2c0806.vc.shawcable.net) |
| 04:45.33 | muthu | hey goog, can adc 1 winners enter adc 2? |
| 04:45.34 | snadge | muthu: android 0.9 :p |
| 04:45.46 | muthu | snadge: hell yeah! |
| 04:46.06 | snadge | i think im going to make an android based game |
| 04:46.14 | snadge | that insults iphones and windows mobile |
| 04:46.15 | muthu | do it |
| 04:46.20 | muthu | haha |
| 04:46.39 | snadge | i'll make it fun and addictive and hopefully it will be available for launch :P |
| 04:47.02 | muthu | the key here is to make it available at launch |
| 04:47.05 | muthu | then you never know |
| 04:47.17 | f00f- | i still dont see a good sms app |
| 04:47.19 | f00f- | how is the stock one? |
| 04:48.13 | zhobbs | f00f-: have you seen the one in 0.9? |
| 04:48.18 | snadge | how good is the emulator? |
| 04:48.23 | muthu | i would not do anything that is already in built |
| 04:48.42 | muthu | snadge: jump right in, developing in android is a pleasure |
| 04:48.45 | snadge | is it not much trouble to boot up 0.9 in it and play around? |
| 04:49.14 | snadge | im at work at the moment, but i'll have a look this evening |
| 04:49.25 | zhobbs | snadge: just download the SDK and run "emulator" in the tools folder |
| 04:49.38 | snadge | linux? (ubuntu) |
| 04:50.27 | snadge | ahh yes i386 .. sweet |
| 04:51.48 | muthu | ubuntu would do |
| 04:51.51 | muthu | or get fedora 9 |
| 04:52.00 | muthu | eclipse ganymede |
| 04:52.05 | muthu | android sdk |
| 04:52.07 | muthu | that's it |
| 04:52.20 | *** join/#android gambler (n=gambler@124-171-166-87.dyn.iinet.net.au) |
| 04:58.01 | snadge | im going to have to learn opengl programming quick smart |
| 04:58.15 | romainguy | OpenGL is pretty easy |
| 04:58.39 | snadge | it'll either be a game that involves bill gates' face.. and cream pies |
| 04:58.59 | snadge | objective being to pie as many bills in the face in the shortest amount of time.. something like that ;) |
| 04:59.13 | romainguy | I remember playing such a game on Windows 95 |
| 04:59.16 | snadge | or perhaps a chair throwing game |
| 04:59.22 | romainguy | it was lame then, I'm sure it's still lame now :) |
| 04:59.41 | snadge | chair olympics.. with steve ballmer |
| 05:07.18 | f00f- | zhobbs: no i havent |
| 05:07.43 | f00f- | oh yeah |
| 05:07.44 | f00f- | totally |
| 05:07.46 | f00f- | i remember the bill game |
| 05:09.08 | f00f- | man it's all about CSV api's |
| 05:09.11 | f00f- | lean and mean |
| 05:09.22 | romainguy | ? |
| 05:09.30 | f00f- | some data can't be put into the CSV model |
| 05:09.33 | f00f- | it's a pretty harsh schema |
| 05:09.45 | f00f- | so just stuff key-value pairs into HTTP headers and you're good |
| 05:09.47 | cliff_ | you mean like, data with commas? |
| 05:09.53 | f00f- | yeah |
| 05:09.54 | f00f- | a,b,c,d |
| 05:09.56 | cliff_ | lol |
| 05:10.33 | snadge | ok .. so im running the emulator.. wow ;) |
| 05:10.40 | f00f- | although i wonder how much efficiency i gain by using CSV versus JSON parsing |
| 05:11.57 | cliff_ | just the question alone is too much thought |
| 05:29.58 | *** join/#android jerkface03 (n=jerkface@S0106000d3a2c0806.vc.shawcable.net) |
| 05:32.42 | *** join/#android romainguy_ (n=gfx@adsl-76-241-19-32.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net) |
| 05:33.26 | *** join/#android romainguy_ (n=gfx@72.14.224.1) |
| 05:37.21 | *** join/#android cliff (n=cliff@c-98-232-10-222.hsd1.wa.comcast.net) |
| 05:38.20 | muthu | http://techon.nikkeibp.co.jp/english/NEWS_EN/20080827/156975/ |
| 05:41.14 | gambler | he looks like he is doing karaoke |
| 05:41.58 | snadge | i like the web browser.. what is it? |
| 05:42.14 | snadge | and can i run it on ubuntu? :P |
| 05:43.15 | muthu | gambler: lol |
| 05:49.08 | *** join/#android romainguy__ (n=gfx@72.14.224.1) |
| 05:52.30 | muthu | haha.. karaoke |
| 05:52.41 | muthu | wonder what he's singing :) |
| 05:58.15 | *** join/#android romainguy_ (n=gfx@72.14.224.1) |
| 06:06.50 | *** join/#android jerkface03 (n=jerkface@S0106000d3a2c0806.vc.shawcable.net) |
| 06:08.10 | *** join/#android romainguy__ (n=gfx@72.14.224.1) |
| 06:12.32 | f00f- | what to use to encode entities in html? |
| 06:12.45 | f00f- | like Uri.encode but for XML |
| 06:13.26 | muthu | there must be some helper in .net package |
| 06:13.58 | f00f- | wow, didnt even notice android.net.http.AndroidHttpClient before |
| 06:14.25 | muthu | yeah, that should help |
| 06:15.04 | romainguy | hmm |
| 06:15.09 | romainguy | it's not in the SDK 0.9 |
| 06:17.04 | *** join/#android romainguy___ (n=gfx@72.14.224.1) |
| 06:24.17 | muthu | really? thought i saw it in there |
| 06:24.38 | romainguy | if it is, it is not part of the public API |
| 06:24.45 | f00f- | it's not usable it seems |
| 06:25.13 | f00f- | so romain you get to take your phone home :P |
| 06:25.40 | romainguy | make that my phoneS |
| 06:25.41 | muthu | bet they are already using some of the apps ;) |
| 06:25.47 | f00f- | :) |
| 06:26.01 | romainguy | I have 5 devices right here :p |
| 06:26.13 | muthu | all different? |
| 06:26.53 | romainguy | just 5 versions of the same prototype |
| 06:27.02 | muthu | oh ok |
| 06:32.38 | *** join/#android BBHoss (n=bbhoss@c-68-62-170-33.hsd1.al.comcast.net) |
| 06:35.03 | *** join/#android red_alert|w0rk (i=c229d89a@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-88a185946a38e7e4) |
| 07:01.32 | *** join/#android dueynz (n=Nick@203.96.223.40) |
| 07:01.39 | *** join/#android anno^da (n=anno@p5B07C454.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 07:09.16 | *** join/#android romainguy_ (n=gfx@72.14.224.1) |
| 07:09.30 | f00f- | why is it so hard to use HttpPost |
| 07:09.45 | f00f- | i want UrlEncodedFormEntity but way simpler |
| 07:13.41 | anno^da | well actually it is pretty simple |
| 07:17.43 | f00f- | extend a class? |
| 07:17.45 | f00f- | give me a break |
| 07:17.49 | anno^da | http://paste.pocoo.org/show/83602/ all you have to do. I think it is not possible to make it eveb more simple |
| 07:17.53 | f00f- | for key=value pairs |
| 07:18.44 | f00f- | oh my |
| 07:18.55 | f00f- | i misunderstood the javadoc |
| 07:18.59 | anno^da | :-) |
| 07:19.03 | f00f- | that is simple anno^da :P |
| 07:19.28 | f00f- | ugh i already implemented a solution, but it's not future-proof |
| 07:19.30 | f00f- | this is ^^ |
| 07:20.00 | anno^da | Yeah it is :) I've used it several times. If you have to do multipart messages it is a bit more complicated since the multipart entity is gone. But with the right external libs it is easy as well. |
| 07:32.56 | *** join/#android davidw (n=davidw@apache/committer/davidw) |
| 07:37.28 | umdk1d3 | yay /me claps hands |
| 07:37.36 | umdk1d3 | my adapters are working flawlessly ^.^ |
| 07:37.46 | muthu | gr88 |
| 07:38.01 | umdk1d3 | muthu: when do you sleep? :P |
| 07:38.05 | f00f- | hmm i'm getting a 417 http error code, it must be me |
| 07:38.05 | muthu | hehe |
| 07:38.08 | muthu | its noon for me |
| 07:38.11 | muthu | just finished lunch |
| 07:38.16 | umdk1d3 | oh lol, 130am here |
| 07:38.25 | muthu | its the same.. except pm |
| 07:38.35 | muthu | not getting sleep huh ;) |
| 07:38.37 | umdk1d3 | crazy lol |
| 07:38.47 | umdk1d3 | i switched my schedule around to work nights now |
| 07:38.54 | muthu | i'm repeatedly counting from 1.. 20 |
| 07:38.56 | muthu | lol |
| 07:39.44 | umdk1d3 | ill tell ya one thing--its nice to grab groceries in an empty store |
| 07:39.51 | umdk1d3 | nobody around and you can take your time |
| 07:40.00 | muthu | are you sure it was groceries.. lol |
| 07:40.06 | muthu | :P |
| 07:40.18 | umdk1d3 | waaaat? /me lost |
| 07:40.29 | muthu | haha |
| 07:40.33 | f00f- | i know umdk1d3 |
| 07:40.39 | f00f- | that's how i used to shop in college |
| 07:40.51 | f00f- | but you dont want to go in there when they're doing inventory |
| 07:41.00 | umdk1d3 | hmm true :/ |
| 07:41.11 | f00f- | so 2am & later probably work well :) |
| 07:41.12 | umdk1d3 | i hear the most awesome idea the other day--coffee pot ramen |
| 07:41.14 | muthu | why changed to work nights? |
| 07:41.34 | f00f- | oh dude |
| 07:41.37 | f00f- | that is a killer idea |
| 07:41.50 | f00f- | if i am ever that cheap again, that will be on my list! |
| 07:42.15 | umdk1d3 | i just wonder how well it would work |
| 07:42.29 | f00f- | very little ramen |
| 07:42.34 | f00f- | unless you have a big pot |
| 07:42.39 | umdk1d3 | muthu: less distractions, and my adsl works better in the cool evening |
| 07:42.56 | muthu | umdk1d3: true, you can get a lot done |
| 07:43.20 | muthu | but kinda lonely |
| 07:43.23 | *** join/#android zoolooc (n=lucian@nrbg-4dbfaede.pool.einsundeins.de) |
| 07:43.37 | umdk1d3 | heh its 48\degr F right now 9 C |
| 07:43.51 | snadge | hmm.. that could actually be the killer application |
| 07:43.53 | romainguy | umdk1d3: ill tell ya one thing--its nice to grab groceries in an empty store << I used to do this :)) |
| 07:44.04 | snadge | if my android phone can make me coffee in the morning |
| 07:44.13 | umdk1d3 | snadge: BSD TOASTER!! XD |
| 07:44.19 | snadge | maybe as part of the alarm clock applet? |
| 07:44.23 | *** part/#android red_alert|w0rk (i=c229d89a@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-88a185946a38e7e4) |
| 07:44.24 | snadge | hehe |
| 07:44.32 | umdk1d3 | romainguy: lol was that before you had a gf tho? |
| 07:44.36 | f00f- | anno^da: wtf... it seems HttpPost is somehow adding an Expect header?! |
| 07:44.37 | umdk1d3 | im female-less atm, which makes this easy |
| 07:44.49 | snadge | i dont mind if i have to rig up a bit of interfacing between the phone and the coffee machine somehow |
| 07:45.05 | snadge | bluetooth is out of the question for launch.. maybe usb or something? |
| 07:45.14 | umdk1d3 | snadge: just home ip network |
| 07:45.34 | snadge | but then i have to add an ip stack to my coffee machine which seems a bit extreme |
| 07:45.36 | umdk1d3 | digs up a home automatuion android app |
| 07:45.41 | f00f- | just use the coffeepot control protocol |
| 07:45.43 | *** join/#android Acsia (n=Acsia@78-86-205-140.zone2.bethere.co.uk) |
| 07:45.44 | f00f- | it's published in an rfc |
| 07:45.52 | umdk1d3 | seriouiusly?? rofl |
| 07:46.24 | snadge | i really do need coffee in the morning.. seriously.. currently i have to get up and out of bed, to make the coffee.. i consider this to be a serious weakness ;) |
| 07:46.33 | umdk1d3 | snadge: these guys do home automation and have an android app out there http://www.hometheaternetwork.com/autoHTN.php |
| 07:47.03 | f00f- | http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc2324.txt |
| 07:47.25 | umdk1d3 | roooooooofl |
| 07:47.35 | *** join/#android cutmasta (n=cutmasta@port-83-236-195-235.static.qsc.de) |
| 07:47.50 | f00f- | highly compatible with HTTP |
| 07:47.58 | f00f- | can be proxied through your favorite proxy server, too |
| 07:48.04 | umdk1d3 | LMAO http error code "418 I'm a teapot" |
| 07:48.15 | f00f- | access remote coffee pots with ease |
| 07:48.48 | muthu | haha |
| 07:50.01 | snadge | ok so we need an rfc2324 implementation for android :P |
| 07:50.31 | snadge | it looks reasonably feature complete .. and sufficient for coffee making purposes |
| 07:50.37 | umdk1d3 | waohh (mind blowing) why doesnt the coffee pot /run android/? |
| 07:51.28 | snadge | yeah.. i can see that, but my first thought was |
| 07:51.49 | snadge | are people going to want to port android to x86 and try and run it on pcs |
| 07:52.02 | gjs | ' |
| 07:52.03 | gjs | '"''/ |
| 07:52.03 | gjs | " |
| 07:52.17 | umdk1d3 | well porting shouldnt be too bad |
| 07:52.24 | umdk1d3 | its just the linux kernel, which is already x86 |
| 07:52.35 | snadge | its obviously inappropriate .. but theres a reasoning for it |
| 07:52.48 | snadge | if you have a low resolution, lowly specced legacy machine |
| 07:53.04 | snadge | a stripped down gui with efficient applications .. sounds like a good idea |
| 07:53.16 | umdk1d3 | wait a sec tho, you can still do powerufl stuff tho |
| 07:53.26 | umdk1d3 | this /couuld/ be googles entrance into the desktop market |
| 07:53.42 | umdk1d3 | since everything is replaceable, just replace it with desktop-style apps |
| 07:53.42 | snadge | of course.. theres many situations where the full blown X desktop with compiz etc.. is just overkill |
| 07:53.52 | umdk1d3 | <3 compiz |
| 07:54.14 | snadge | even if you have 8 cores and 4 gigs of ram.. you dont necessarily want your X server and browser etc to gobble it all up |
| 07:56.06 | snadge | its off topic and out of scope, but i bet im not the first to consider alternative applications for android :P |
| 07:56.20 | f00f- | Google TV will come in 2009 or 2010 |
| 07:56.26 | f00f- | gTube |
| 07:56.28 | f00f- | or whatever u want to call it |
| 07:56.53 | muthu | youtube |
| 07:57.25 | snadge | f0 (clear interrupts) 0f (halt and wait for interrupt) |
| 07:57.28 | snadge | :P |
| 07:59.13 | snadge | f00f_bug : yes |
| 07:59.44 | f00f- | my own catch-22 ;) |
| 07:59.57 | f00f- | YourTube |
| 08:00.02 | f00f- | well whatevr they call it |
| 08:00.07 | f00f- | android will run on it |
| 08:00.35 | muthu | haha |
| 08:00.43 | muthu | f00fTube |
| 08:01.48 | *** join/#android dasilvj (n=dasilvj@163.5.255.63) |
| 08:08.49 | snadge | halt and catch fire |
| 08:09.03 | snadge | is my favourite cpu instruction :p |
| 08:09.56 | muthu | does it work? |
| 08:11.23 | snadge | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halt_and_Catch_Fire |
| 08:13.15 | muthu | ha, interesting |
| 08:15.33 | gambler | f00f-, what is google tv |
| 08:18.32 | f00f- | gambler, refer to entry "Apple TV" |
| 08:20.18 | f00f- | it's getting late |
| 08:20.19 | f00f- | good night folks |
| 08:20.24 | gambler | gnite |
| 08:20.32 | muthu | nite f00f- |
| 08:23.51 | muthu | iphone is a massive failure in India |
| 08:24.29 | muthu | goog, look at iphone launch in India and please avoid everything they tried to do |
| 08:25.47 | snadge | i tried to get excited about the iphone |
| 08:26.00 | snadge | until i realised it was just an ipod, with a crippled phone attached to it |
| 08:26.11 | muthu | terrible news floating around regarding iphone |
| 08:26.19 | *** join/#android Zohan (n=alex2308@daloo.de) |
| 08:26.19 | muthu | emails are flying asking everyone not to buy |
| 08:26.37 | snadge | cant send mms messages? as well as other little bugs |
| 08:27.29 | muthu | there's a huge list of things that iphone doesn't do |
| 08:27.42 | muthu | or does it in its own way |
| 08:27.59 | muthu | which is annoying a lot of people here |
| 08:28.23 | Zohan | iphone ftl |
| 08:29.12 | snadge | i think its greatest flaw is that its an apple product |
| 08:29.26 | Zohan | true |
| 08:29.27 | snadge | and all the other flaws basically relate back to that one single massive flaw |
| 08:29.34 | Zohan | true |
| 08:29.58 | snadge | google could take a dump onto a circuit board, and it would be better than the iphone ;) |
| 08:30.09 | muthu | lol |
| 08:30.34 | Zohan | google sucks, too |
| 08:30.43 | snadge | they would have to be happy about the competition surely.. i mean.. sure, its pre-existing and established.. but *cough* |
| 08:31.04 | snadge | if google succeeds with this, it will be in part because everyone else failed |
| 08:31.39 | snadge | by no means a small accomplishment regardless |
| 08:33.58 | muthu | agree |
| 08:34.03 | snadge | i shouldn't be this desperate for a phone that doesnt suck |
| 08:34.31 | snadge | i have an old brick piece of crap.. simply because i refuse to purchase anything more modern until i can get a phone with android on it ;) |
| 08:34.42 | muthu | me too |
| 08:34.57 | muthu | snadge: where you from? |
| 08:35.00 | snadge | maybe if iphone sucked half as much as it does.. i might be tempted to have one in the meantime |
| 08:35.06 | Zohan | i have an iphone and a htc touch diamond and nokia n95 |
| 08:35.25 | snadge | its not like i cant afford an iphone.. i dont want to waste my money |
| 08:35.34 | Zohan | but ill return them all today, except the touch diamond |
| 08:35.55 | snadge | muthu: australia |
| 08:36.27 | muthu | cool |
| 08:36.50 | *** join/#android tomgibara (i=Miranda@gibara.demon.co.uk) |
| 08:37.15 | snadge | a mate of mine has a 3g iphone, and told me he paid $5 so he can run ssh on it |
| 08:37.42 | snadge | that both saddened and amused me at the same time |
| 08:37.46 | Acsia | gm |
| 08:38.20 | snadge | google will give an entire phone operating system and api away for free |
| 08:38.30 | snadge | but apple wants to charge you $5 for the privilege of running ssh ;) |
| 08:38.55 | snadge | on a crappy phone that doesnt even have a keyboard hehe |
| 08:39.15 | muthu | apple want to squeeze in every $$ |
| 08:39.31 | snadge | its not so much im against charging for software |
| 08:39.40 | snadge | but openssh is free software |
| 08:39.57 | snadge | sure someone had to package it for the iphone.. but so what |
| 08:40.29 | gambler | snadge, syd? |
| 08:40.37 | snadge | i work in brisbane, live on the gold coast |
| 08:41.10 | gambler | train commuter? |
| 08:41.21 | snadge | drive.. which reminds me.. its home time :P |
| 08:41.53 | gambler | now that rush hour is over :p |
| 08:42.36 | snadge | yeah.. i come it at about 10, 10:30 am.. and leave at 6/6:30 |
| 08:42.37 | snadge | :p |
| 08:43.09 | snadge | cuts the commute time in half roughly |
| 08:45.43 | umdk1d3 | speaking of ssh for android |
| 08:45.57 | umdk1d3 | http://code.google.com/p/connectbot/ looks like its coming along well |
| 08:46.07 | umdk1d3 | theres a video demo with some sweet animations between consoles |
| 08:46.56 | muthu | umdk1d3: is that yours? |
| 08:52.50 | *** join/#android dasilvj (n=dasilvj@163.5.255.63) |
| 08:58.18 | *** join/#android matt_c (n=mcroydon@137.147.45.66.cm.sunflower.com) |
| 09:19.45 | Zohan | sweet @ connectbot |
| 09:31.17 | *** join/#android muthu (n=sara@59.92.89.234) |
| 09:57.37 | umdk1d3 | hmm |
| 09:58.34 | umdk1d3 | so i have some Views in a ListView |
| 09:59.05 | umdk1d3 | when i setLongClickable() on an individual view, it no longer seems to be longclickable from the ListView's perspective |
| 09:59.49 | umdk1d3 | is the individual view not passing the onTouch()'es up the tree correctly to the parent ListView? |
| 10:00.11 | umdk1d3 | im trying to detect a gesture on a individual list items |
| 10:00.29 | umdk1d3 | and still have them clickable/long clickable from the overall ListView's point of view |
| 10:24.30 | *** join/#android duey (n=duey@203.96.223.40) |
| 10:29.06 | *** join/#android milos_ (n=milos@92.36.160.61) |
| 10:32.27 | tric | hmm, was the current emu armv5b or armv4? |
| 10:36.02 | *** join/#android SR71-Blackbird (n=nirvana@prasanna.student.trincoll.edu) |
| 10:50.21 | *** join/#android Dougie187 (n=doug@68.35.245.156) |
| 10:50.42 | *** part/#android muthu (n=sara@59.92.89.234) |
| 10:58.21 | *** join/#android nowi (n=nowi@p57A0F96C.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 11:28.55 | *** join/#android matt_c (n=mcroydon@137.147.45.66.cm.sunflower.com) |
| 11:32.29 | *** join/#android borism_ (n=boris@195-50-201-237-dsl.krw.estpak.ee) |
| 11:32.32 | *** part/#android Dougie187 (n=doug@68.35.245.156) |
| 11:38.59 | *** join/#android duey (n=Nick@203.96.223.40) |
| 11:42.51 | *** join/#android hap (n=hap@master.uucpssh.org) |
| 11:43.18 | hap | Hi. Has someone a link to an online article about how Google is linked to other companies and can t make decision alone |
| 11:43.24 | hap | i can t put my hand on that again |
| 11:45.23 | hap | oki found it |
| 11:45.40 | hap | http://groups.google.com/group/android-discuss/msg/fa17b0e011a3b8db |
| 11:46.44 | anno^da | after working 2h with Gimp I know why Photoshop coasts 1000€. I'm starting to hate it. :-) |
| 11:46.55 | hap | anno^da: you bet... |
| 11:48.03 | anno^da | :) bet ? |
| 11:50.20 | anno^da | I'm giving Gimp a chance from one version to the next but it's as unusable as at the beginning. (just looking at it from the user point of view) |
| 11:52.45 | tric | anno: what is missing? |
| 11:54.52 | anno^da | well a lot of things are there but the whole workflow is pretty annoying. Just one example you select sth. Why do you get a big square around the selected area? And not just your real selection. |
| 11:56.44 | anno^da | There are a lot of this small things that get annoying when you try to create sth. . For small things it is ok. Some small image corrections etc. but real work I dont know. :) |
| 11:57.37 | anno^da | And yeah it is open source and yeah I know that it is a lot of work to get to the point where they are at the moment. |
| 12:03.16 | *** join/#android alex2308-zohan (n=alex2308@daloo.de) |
| 12:06.07 | *** join/#android muthu (n=sara@59.92.68.122) |
| 12:10.09 | tric | anno: and maybe those dev have another workflow ;) |
| 12:10.16 | tric | usually thats the main problem. |
| 12:13.29 | *** join/#android Dougie187 (n=doug@wg-d232091.dsl.fsu.edu) |
| 12:35.29 | *** join/#android matt_c (n=mcroydon@137.147.45.66.cm.sunflower.com) |
| 12:46.47 | anno^da | tric: thats right. They often dont fit together with the people that use the applications. That is always a problem between someone who creates sth. (designer, layouter etc) and someone who designs the software. |
| 12:48.43 | *** join/#android muthu (n=sara@59.92.53.202) |
| 12:51.55 | *** join/#android krau (n=cktakaha@200.184.118.136) |
| 12:58.23 | Dougie187 | hey anno^da have you played with ubiquity yet> |
| 12:58.25 | Dougie187 | *? |
| 13:14.09 | *** join/#android krau (n=cktakaha@200.184.118.132) |
| 13:16.57 | snadge | what is the web browser called? |
| 13:17.27 | muthu | android web browser |
| 13:18.27 | *** join/#android vbabiy (n=vbabiy@rrcs-24-97-148-190.nys.biz.rr.com) |
| 13:28.06 | anno^da | Dougie187: Yeah I've played with it |
| 13:28.16 | anno^da | It is quite nice for a alpha 0.1 version |
| 13:28.17 | Dougie187 | its pretty neat. |
| 13:28.35 | Dougie187 | i don't know how much I will use it, but im sure its really useful for some people |
| 13:28.47 | Dougie187 | i couldn't get map-these to work right. |
| 13:29.16 | anno^da | I like this idea. I'm using some kind of the same idea with Quicksilve on OSX already. |
| 13:29.46 | anno^da | Yeah well it has to be integrated with the normal desktop apps. (talking about the email features for example) |
| 13:30.12 | anno^da | But searching something or getting a translation is pretty nice. |
| 13:30.27 | anno^da | A command "map city to city" would be nice |
| 13:30.38 | anno^da | But that should be easy to implement. |
| 13:31.16 | Dougie187 | yeah |
| 13:31.25 | Dougie187 | and they have that example for purchasing plane tickets |
| 13:31.30 | Dougie187 | that one is pretty cool looking. |
| 13:31.33 | Dougie187 | though i haven't tried that either. |
| 13:32.06 | anno^da | Well thats just a mockup for the future :) |
| 13:32.15 | anno^da | Thats how it should work in a few years |
| 13:32.36 | Dougie187 | oh. i didn't realize that. i thought it was a feature already implemented. but it will be cool later when they get it i guess. |
| 13:32.40 | anno^da | just saying: "I want a ticket for the next Knicks game" :) |
| 13:32.50 | anno^da | and the ticket gets booked |
| 13:33.09 | Dougie187 | yeah |
| 13:33.25 | Dougie187 | well today the touch diamond is supposed to be out on sprint. |
| 13:34.33 | Dougie187 | they are selling the touch for 99 bucks now. |
| 13:34.34 | Dougie187 | lol |
| 13:34.38 | Dougie187 | trying to ditch all of them |
| 13:35.49 | anno^da | :-) Well I'm curious about the next rumours about the Dream. I don't believe any of theme since I can see the device on a real official picture. :) |
| 13:36.01 | anno^da | with official spec. |
| 13:36.03 | Dougie187 | heh |
| 13:36.09 | Dougie187 | i didn't know any of that stuff had been out yet. |
| 13:38.51 | anno^da | oh well there is a lot of stuff out but it is not official. Some things will be true and some wont |
| 13:39.24 | Dougie187 | yeah but you said official picture and specs. |
| 13:41.04 | anno^da | oh there is nothing official just wanted to say that I will not believe the rumours untill the day I can see official specs. |
| 13:41.18 | Dougie187 | oh ok |
| 13:41.34 | Dougie187 | i get it. |
| 13:41.53 | anno^da | there are just the sketches from the FCC and one leaked sketch available atm. |
| 13:42.03 | Dougie187 | yeah |
| 13:45.41 | Dougie187 | it will be cool to see once it comes out though. |
| 13:57.55 | *** join/#android plusminus_ (i=4421a620@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-a3d23dc7723c3a6e) |
| 14:04.40 | *** join/#android yakischloba (n=jake@c-24-17-53-6.hsd1.mn.comcast.net) |
| 14:12.13 | *** join/#android matt_c (n=mcroydon@gozur.sunflowerbroadband.com) |
| 14:27.59 | *** join/#android chadkouse (n=chadkous@rrcs-24-106-158-216.central.biz.rr.com) |
| 14:30.39 | *** part/#android zoolooc (n=lucian@nrbg-4dbfaede.pool.einsundeins.de) |
| 14:41.00 | *** part/#android Dougie187 (n=doug@wg-d232091.dsl.fsu.edu) |
| 14:46.04 | *** join/#android BBHoss (n=bbhoss@c-68-62-170-33.hsd1.al.comcast.net) |
| 14:47.46 | jasta | yawn |
| 14:50.09 | muthu | yo |
| 14:56.51 | *** join/#android cbeust (n=cbeust@64-142-66-175.dsl.static.sonic.net) |
| 14:58.33 | *** join/#android cbeust_ (n=cbeust@64-142-66-175.dsl.static.sonic.net) |
| 15:05.49 | gambler | Does anyone know if if a client and server have a common parent (eg, both keys are signed by the same CA) does the server trust the client as a verified peer? |
| 15:06.19 | gambler | In java terms the server hasnt seen the client before (the key is not in his trust store), and he has clientAuthentication enabled. |
| 15:07.34 | gambler | Question #2 is, if anyone knows of a reasonable CA mgmt utility that can easily interact with java keystores, I'd love to hear about it. |
| 15:08.37 | jasta | are you just asking a general question about this type of key-based authentication/encryption? |
| 15:10.35 | gambler | I could easily test it, my real problem is dealing with the CA side of things. keytool cant sign CSRs |
| 15:10.48 | gambler | openssl doesnt play nicely with keytool. |
| 15:11.06 | gambler | actually openssl is fine but keytool is a bit restrictive |
| 15:11.19 | jasta | the reason a certificate authority improves matters is because the client already has the CA public key, so no man-in-the-middle attack can possibly begin. |
| 15:11.48 | jasta | so when the server says I am <X>, and <Y> agrees. the client can check that <Y> truly agrees without fear of forgery from <Y>. |
| 15:11.52 | gambler | right i get that part. |
| 15:12.14 | jasta | the server trusting the client has nothing to do with it |
| 15:12.29 | gambler | it does if your also trying to authenticate the client |
| 15:12.46 | gambler | there are verified peers and unverified |
| 15:17.30 | jasta | yeah but without a mutually trusted CA involved, there is no defense against MITM, for example. |
| 15:18.31 | jasta | any place where a public key must be transmitted with no separate out-of-band verification, MITM is possible. |
| 15:19.01 | jasta | so for places where MITM is possible, you had best have a healthy bit of skepticism built into your server |
| 15:19.45 | jasta | also, "trust" should never be implicit based on how your users have authenticated. for instance, you'd never want to have privilege elevation possible even after you know who the user is. |
| 15:20.31 | jasta | but plenty of poorly thought out systems are vulnerbale to that. somewhat recently a demonstration of this was put into motion by way of a web browser virus which hijacked authenticated sessions to try SQL injection attacks. |
| 15:20.43 | jasta | the attack was hugely successful because of this bad assumption of what "trust" means. |
| 15:21.13 | gambler | thx for those nuggest of wisdom jasta |
| 15:21.21 | gambler | nuggets |
| 15:21.33 | jasta | please don't patronize me. i was only trying to be helpful. |
| 15:21.46 | gambler | ok ty sir |
| 15:22.08 | gambler | keytool sucks :p |
| 15:23.25 | jasta | it's part of the JDK, what did you expect? |
| 15:23.50 | *** join/#android cbeust (n=cbeust@72.14.224.1) |
| 15:24.52 | gambler | i dunno. all i know is im testing my 3rd set of C.A. utilities and I really hate this non-corework fiddling |
| 15:25.50 | jasta | i'm honestly surprised to find that you actually have a project going on. |
| 15:26.11 | gambler | im not here for my health |
| 15:26.17 | jasta | i mean, if you have no problem patronizing me, then i have no problem admitting what i think of your abilities. |
| 15:26.52 | gambler | im the first one to admit that i am a crap sw engineer |
| 15:28.48 | anno^da | Oh guys there is more than being a good or bad sw engineer. :-) |
| 15:28.53 | gambler | though i am pleasently suprised at how nice some of the stuff ive been working on has come out |
| 15:29.11 | jasta | perhaps it only seems nice. |
| 15:29.29 | gambler | i am biased |
| 15:29.29 | anno^da | well in the end the user decides :-) |
| 15:29.50 | jasta | anno^da: hardly. sometimes hackers get to decide :) |
| 15:30.22 | gambler | my problem is I move at a snails pace due to over maximizing. I would give anything to be a satisficer |
| 15:30.37 | anno^da | jasta: But to be honest if the users of my application (which I dont have) would be pleased with it I wouldnt care about some hacker blaming me. |
| 15:31.54 | jasta | anno^da: i don't mean "blaming" you. i mean defeating weak security measures to affect performance, reliability, etc. or worse, stealing sensitive information from your users. |
| 15:37.45 | gambler | jasta, can I get a postcard from ireland pls |
| 15:38.03 | jasta | no, you cannot |
| 15:39.43 | gambler | well im going to miss you when your gone from the internets |
| 15:39.56 | gambler | :p |
| 15:40.03 | jasta | god you are so annoying |
| 15:41.37 | muthu | haha |
| 15:41.45 | muthu | this channel will miss jasta |
| 15:41.51 | muthu | when he's on vacation |
| 15:42.33 | gambler | i predict traffic will drop 60% |
| 15:42.43 | muthu | more than that |
| 15:42.46 | jasta | intelligence, too. |
| 15:43.57 | muthu | that'll shoot up!! |
| 15:43.59 | muthu | hehe |
| 15:44.08 | jasta | right, i'm sure you believe that. |
| 15:44.31 | dmoffett | The asshole factor will go way down. |
| 15:44.45 | gambler | ding we have a winer |
| 15:44.48 | gambler | winner |
| 15:48.27 | jasta | we're not here to be nice :) |
| 15:48.48 | dmoffett | or an asshole |
| 15:48.50 | anno^da | lol whats up here :-) |
| 15:49.30 | gambler | the channel is giving jasta some tough love |
| 15:50.04 | anno^da | cmon guys brace yourself. It is pretty absurd what you do here... |
| 15:51.54 | anno^da | So I'm out here for a moment. That childish bullshit pisses me off. |
| 15:52.39 | gambler | you might want to wait until i post a funny absurd video |
| 15:53.03 | jasta | you mean disgusting and offensive? |
| 15:58.47 | gambler | why you got so much sand in your vagina today jasta? |
| 15:58.53 | gambler | btw I cant find anything good atm |
| 16:01.53 | *** join/#android yakischloba (n=jake@209.160.56.254) |
| 16:04.40 | *** join/#android trigatch4 (n=chatzill@c-68-33-22-200.hsd1.md.comcast.net) |
| 16:07.50 | trigatch4 | whattup folks |
| 16:14.57 | *** join/#android Mathiasdm (n=Mathias@vpnb026.ugent.be) |
| 16:28.00 | anno^da | It is amazing how stupid some people can be. But ok /ignore should do it. |
| 16:31.22 | jasta | twiddles his thumbs hoping hackbod will someday get to his google groups questions |
| 16:31.32 | *** join/#android ralfz (n=chatzill@69.36.227.135) |
| 16:31.32 | *** join/#android zhobbs (n=zach@220-130-197-111.HINET-IP.hinet.net) |
| 16:31.47 | muthu | jasta: his/her |
| 16:32.26 | jasta | no, i am certain i'm male. |
| 16:32.39 | muthu | lol |
| 16:32.45 | muthu | sorry, my poor english again |
| 16:33.20 | jasta | i was the subject in that sentence :) |
| 16:35.58 | trigatch4 | holler |
| 16:36.18 | trigatch4 | will google announce ADC winners already |
| 16:36.20 | trigatch4 | sheesh |
| 16:36.26 | muthu | is it announced? |
| 16:36.30 | jasta | yeah no kidding. that's been like a month right? |
| 16:36.40 | muthu | results expected anytime now.. |
| 16:38.49 | trigatch4 | everything has always been expected "any time now" |
| 16:38.50 | *** join/#android stadler (n=stadler@nat/google/x-1c4b7fcf3e9c81be) |
| 16:38.56 | trigatch4 | i grow impatient! |
| 16:39.06 | trigatch4 | too bad nobody cares haha |
| 16:39.11 | muthu | haha |
| 16:40.08 | trigatch4 | muthu, jasta, do you guys run FF3? |
| 16:40.41 | *** join/#android morrildl (n=chatzill@nat/google/x-2145b5b1db181c47) |
| 16:40.41 | *** mode/#android [+o morrildl] by ChanServ |
| 16:40.43 | anno^da | well yeah I do |
| 16:40.44 | jasta | firefox3? i run ubuntu 8.04 at work so yes. |
| 16:40.58 | muthu | FF2 keep reminding me |
| 16:40.59 | jasta | but debain etch at home, so no :) |
| 16:41.21 | muthu | but not yet, planning to upgrade anytime now |
| 16:41.24 | jasta | morrildl: find anything out for me? :) |
| 16:41.46 | jasta | trigatch4: i trust my distro to make all those types of decisions for me :) |
| 16:42.23 | trigatch4 | anyone familiar with NicEdit? |
| 16:43.05 | trigatch4 | copy/paste and stuff doesn't seem to work in FF3 and apparently its a security protection in FF3 but even the "patch" or fix via altering user.js doesn't seem to work |
| 16:43.27 | trigatch4 | effing pain in the butt cause i gotta use fck editor which is just heavier |
| 16:43.48 | *** join/#android pandora-- (n=pandora-@66.238.50.126.ptr.us.xo.net) |
| 16:44.03 | anno^da | copy/paste doesnt work? It works on Ubuntu 8.04 as well as under OSX for me. |
| 16:44.03 | jasta | it probably isn't firefox's fault. however the thing was designed is probably wrong |
| 16:44.28 | jasta | err, that made no sense. i'm tired |
| 16:44.35 | muthu | lol |
| 16:44.40 | SanMehat | morning |
| 16:46.10 | muthu | night |
| 16:51.18 | trigatch4 | firefox 3 disallows copy/paste for these editors apparently so that hidden divs with forms can't randomly paste whatever you have on your clipboard and send it over the interwebz to phisher |
| 16:51.57 | *** join/#android _Marvin_ (n=laurent@noi78-1-82-244-116-126.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 16:52.03 | trigatch4 | its a flaw - some would say protection - in firefox 3... i guess a better editor might have a work around but given the nature it doesn't seem likely |
| 16:52.23 | trigatch4 | anyone know any lightweight editors similar to NicEdit... lighter than fck editor? |
| 16:53.33 | *** join/#android Loic|pointgphone (i=Loic_poi@ede67-4-88-180-53-13.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 16:55.25 | zhobbs | morrildl: is an op, big announcement coming? |
| 16:56.06 | anno^da | Does someone know if someone is developing an Open Sourc multi IM client for Android? (something like Adium or. Pidgin) Only XMPP would be nice as well. |
| 16:56.24 | anno^da | haha zhobbs yeah he is up very early :-) |
| 16:57.18 | anno^da | Because the integrated IM client seems not really valuable for me since I dont care about MSN or AIM. |
| 17:02.15 | chouman82 | anyone know much about the verifier on android? i am running into verifyError |
| 17:06.56 | muthu | zhobbs: is it coming? |
| 17:07.08 | zhobbs | don't know |
| 17:07.10 | *** join/#android Yeggstry (n=mind@cpc1-rdng14-0-0-cust946.winn.cable.ntl.com) |
| 17:08.08 | anno^da | It is coming to start some rumours. |
| 17:08.27 | muthu | the blogs will be busy today |
| 17:09.25 | jasta | raises an eyebrow |
| 17:09.26 | muthu | anno^da: there were a few IM's in top 50 |
| 17:09.40 | jasta | muthu: none of which were or will be open source AFAIK. |
| 17:10.00 | jasta | i doubt very much that any of the top 50 winners ever will be. *leers at umdk1d3* |
| 17:10.13 | anno^da | in the top 50 I must have went over them |
| 17:10.22 | jasta | what? |
| 17:11.21 | anno^da | I havent seen one simple multi messenger that is open source and I aggree with jasta that we wont see much open source apps from the top 50 |
| 17:12.15 | muthu | yeah, mostly the top 50 were closed |
| 17:12.36 | jasta | muthu: not mostly, exclusively. |
| 17:14.04 | anno^da | And I havent found one that does simple multi messaging |
| 17:15.10 | anno^da | Location awareness would be a nice add on but I dont need it neccesarily |
| 17:19.26 | jasta | anno^da: at present, the open source community seems very bored by Android. |
| 17:21.03 | muthu | that's because android source is not open yet |
| 17:21.08 | muthu | so hopefully things would change |
| 17:23.02 | jasta | muthu: i think it's much more than that ;) |
| 17:23.05 | *** join/#android stadler (n=stadler@nat/google/x-7cbff2e01ebd5384) |
| 17:23.20 | jasta | but yes i also hope it changes. i put a lot of stake in it changing. |
| 17:23.39 | jasta | first we'll need to get rid of all the muthu's out there ;) |
| 17:23.41 | SanMehat | ahh jasta is awake |
| 17:23.48 | muthu | haha |
| 17:24.01 | jasta | it's true :) |
| 17:24.10 | muthu | i know, that's the sad part :) |
| 17:24.16 | morrildl | I know this isn't what you guys are talking about, but: http://android-developers.blogspot.com/2008/08/android-market-user-driven-content.html |
| 17:24.30 | jasta | ohh, is that new? |
| 17:24.38 | morrildl | jasta: yes |
| 17:24.46 | jasta | digs in |
| 17:25.55 | jasta | lol, its shipping in beta? :) |
| 17:25.57 | jasta | oh google! :) |
| 17:27.21 | morrildl | jasta: is that like "O SNAP"? |
| 17:27.28 | muthu | wow, the store! |
| 17:27.32 | morrildl | muthu: !! |
| 17:27.36 | morrildl | muthu: NO! |
| 17:27.43 | jasta | ohh, see permissions listed in there |
| 17:27.46 | morrildl | muthu: the /MARKET/ |
| 17:27.54 | morrildl | gotta run be back in a bit |
| 17:27.57 | muthu | oh yeah, open market |
| 17:28.01 | *** join/#android AttractiveApe (n=phil@office.gossamer-threads.com) |
| 17:28.03 | morrildl | ;) |
| 17:28.08 | jasta | morrildl: i appreciate the clarification on unpaid applications. |
| 17:28.10 | mikez5 | Cool, my name is in one of the screenshots :-) |
| 17:29.07 | jasta | so, am i reading this line right about "soon after launch"? paid content won't be in the first version? versioning won't be either? |
| 17:29.43 | jasta | i hope that this is not for certain values of soon :) |
| 17:31.47 | jasta | otherwise, excellent to see some stuff coming out of the android camp. screenshots too, nice :) |
| 17:32.57 | dmoffett | What do the icons along the top left mean? |
| 17:33.08 | dmoffett | of the screen shots. |
| 17:35.10 | f00f- | you have voice mail, you have email, and your printout is ready |
| 17:36.22 | dmoffett | f00f: Good call. |
| 17:36.46 | dmoffett | not sure about that last one though. |
| 17:38.43 | krosaen | i think the last one means 'download complete' for a market app |
| 17:39.27 | zhobbs | there needs to be some level of versioning support at launch, or will we just have to update all applications after the market is updated? |
| 17:41.20 | chadkouse | zhobbs: what are you doing in here |
| 17:41.37 | zhobbs | chadkouse: what are you doing in here? |
| 17:41.48 | chadkouse | just got back from lunch... waiting on a conference call |
| 17:41.52 | zhobbs | ahh |
| 17:42.14 | chadkouse | shouldn't you be at a saki bar or something ? |
| 17:42.19 | chadkouse | sake* |
| 17:42.41 | zhobbs | no one speaks english here! |
| 17:42.50 | chadkouse | maybe they speak engrish though! |
| 17:42.55 | zhobbs | heh |
| 17:43.11 | chadkouse | jared says "tell him to go get a shave and a haircut" |
| 17:43.21 | muthu | haha |
| 17:43.27 | zhobbs | hehe |
| 17:43.36 | chadkouse | hehehe |
| 17:44.13 | chadkouse | i'm just kind of shocked they allow IRC traffic behind the great firewall of china |
| 17:44.53 | zhobbs | actually, taiwan is uncensored...and apparently somewhat sovereign |
| 17:45.22 | tethridge | taiwan is not china. :-) |
| 17:45.28 | chadkouse | yeah.... |
| 17:45.51 | zhobbs | tethridge: even though the name of taiwan is "The Republic of China" |
| 17:45.54 | morrildl | f00f-: LOL |
| 17:46.06 | morrildl | f00f-: that rightmost notification icon is actually "your download is complete" |
| 17:46.23 | morrildl | f00f-: but yes, I can see your point |
| 17:46.42 | *** join/#android plusminus_ (i=4421a620@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-1c95b3360011534f) |
| 17:46.42 | *** join/#android Dougie187 (n=doug@wg-d232091.dsl.fsu.edu) |
| 17:50.00 | *** join/#android eton (n=eton@ppp-58-8-5-238.revip2.asianet.co.th) |
| 17:56.07 | *** join/#android cybereagle (n=cybereag@87.112.236.28) |
| 17:56.12 | *** part/#android Dougie187 (n=doug@wg-d232091.dsl.fsu.edu) |
| 17:59.56 | dmoffett | Tangible progress from Google is exciting, we have been through a really long dry spell with only rumors for motivation. |
| 18:00.38 | muthu | wonder, when ADC2 is going to be... |
| 18:00.51 | jasta | they said they will announce Q4. |
| 18:01.00 | jasta | announce details anyway, i dont think the challenge will begin instantly |
| 18:01.41 | muthu | jasta: right as always :)) |
| 18:02.01 | *** join/#android romainguy_ (n=gfx@72.14.224.1) |
| 18:02.55 | *** join/#android EQU (n=chatzill@user-89-108-229-107.mobile.playmobile.pl) |
| 18:03.23 | pawalls | oh come on.. like jasta really needs the ego inflation ;-) |
| 18:04.31 | *** join/#android Dougie187 (n=doug@wg-d232091.dsl.fsu.edu) |
| 18:04.59 | _Marvin_ | nice android developers blog entry |
| 18:06.22 | plusminus_ | _Marvin_: ? |
| 18:06.26 | zhobbs | yes, keep the updates flowing |
| 18:06.36 | zhobbs | plusminus_: http://android-developers.blogspot.com/2008/08/android-market-user-driven-content.html |
| 18:06.42 | plusminus_ | got it |
| 18:08.40 | plusminus_ | the last screenshot shows a "Text 2 Speec Library" |
| 18:08.59 | romainguy_ | ^^ |
| 18:09.56 | plusminus_ | is it a dummy? |
| 18:10.25 | romainguy_ | no |
| 18:10.32 | plusminus_ | wohoooooooo |
| 18:10.36 | chouman82 | anyone know anything about the verifier on android? |
| 18:10.44 | romainguy_ | all the applications you see on the screenshots are working apps that we wrote |
| 18:11.39 | EQU | i have a question. All of this application are using basici widgets ( TextView etc. ) for drawing ? |
| 18:12.42 | chouman82 | i have been running into VerifyError |
| 18:12.53 | chouman82 | and the verifier rejecting my classes |
| 18:13.49 | plusminus_ | romainguy_ how to interfere with the T2S-Lib ? Is there already sth in the new SDK (had no time to check it) |
| 18:15.45 | jasta | pawalls: do you just lurk waiting to jab at me? ;) |
| 18:16.14 | anno^da | zhobbs: I told you something will come today :-) |
| 18:18.24 | romainguy_ | plusminus_: there's nothing of the sort in the SDK |
| 18:21.14 | EQU | romainguy: how ViewSwitcher works on real device ? I have two ListView with ~15 rows ( every row is drawn by self ). Switching beetwen them is not smooth. |
| 18:21.46 | EQU | on emulator |
| 18:22.46 | romainguy | too many views |
| 18:23.05 | romainguy | and your emulator seems slower than a real device |
| 18:23.36 | EQU | ok, which drawind cache will fix it ? |
| 18:23.52 | EQU | AnimationChache or DrawCache ? |
| 18:24.08 | EQU | how do they works ? |
| 18:24.10 | romainguy | the caches are enabled by default |
| 18:24.51 | morrildl | jasta: pawalls is actually a Zerg, he burrows under the ground waiting for you to pass by |
| 18:25.18 | *** join/#android EQU (n=chatzill@user-89-108-229-107.mobile.playmobile.pl) |
| 18:25.50 | EQU | romainguy: it's possible to program somthing better than ViewSwitcher ? how it works ? |
| 18:26.05 | pawalls | jasta: of course. |
| 18:26.09 | Dougie187 | morrildl: hes a zerg lurker. |
| 18:26.17 | EQU | romainguy: it makes a 2 bitmaps, a switch them ? |
| 18:29.49 | EQU | romainguy: I think ListView is bad. I made fake ListView using LinearLayout with vertical gravity adn focus as a selected View. Using this fake i see more smooth and clear animation |
| 18:31.17 | EQU | using ViewSwitcher... |
| 18:35.06 | umdk1d3 | YAY |
| 18:35.13 | umdk1d3 | details on market |
| 18:41.10 | zhobbs | romainguy: have you seen the diggin video? I thought the UI programmer did a pretty good job |
| 18:42.04 | zhobbs | ( http://digginmobile.com/ ) |
| 18:44.58 | EQU | zhobbs: are they ussing basic widgets ? |
| 18:45.20 | zhobbs | EQU: don't know what they're doing |
| 18:45.43 | EQU | zhobbs: i think it is possible |
| 18:45.43 | zhobbs | EQU: if they're using the built in stuff it's heavily customized |
| 18:45.47 | muthu | diggin UI is great |
| 18:46.07 | zhobbs | they will probably do well in ADC |
| 18:50.49 | muthu | yeah, think so |
| 18:50.59 | jasta | i like diggin's UI quite a bit. i sent him a couple of messages back and forth about a few things in his implementation and stuff too |
| 18:51.13 | muthu | nite fellas |
| 18:51.16 | *** part/#android muthu (n=sara@59.92.53.202) |
| 18:51.26 | jasta | i don't know how practical it will be though since i can't really use it |
| 18:51.26 | *** join/#android EQU (n=chatzill@user-89-108-229-107.mobile.playmobile.pl) |
| 18:51.48 | jasta | like for instance, his demo has very little music. most people have a much bigger collection than that and wouldnt really appreciate always have to scroll through the entire list like that |
| 18:52.19 | zhobbs | i'm not sure I understand the drawing feature |
| 18:52.51 | zhobbs | I'm just impressed by the animation effects |
| 18:53.18 | *** join/#android soulreaper (n=soul@HSI-KBW-085-216-122-204.hsi.kabelbw.de) |
| 18:53.43 | jasta | zhobbs: i think its to just make visual tags and apply them to music |
| 18:53.51 | jasta | so you can sort your music by these arbitrary tags, rahter than playlists |
| 18:53.51 | zhobbs | hm |
| 18:54.18 | jasta | which is a pretty fun way to do it, i think, but actually it would be super lame to have to build all your playlists manually like that |
| 18:54.22 | jasta | and on the phone exclusively. eww ;) |
| 18:54.42 | jasta | i'm sure there's loads of potential here, but from the demo it is not clear how must users can interact with it |
| 18:55.13 | jasta | how most* |
| 18:55.26 | zhobbs | I'd rather just name my playlists with text (handset or pc) |
| 18:55.40 | zhobbs | but I'm not really the artist type |
| 18:55.44 | jasta | right, i think for me it's more that i'd rather make playlists on a computer |
| 18:55.45 | EQU | maybe they will do karaoke :) |
| 18:55.59 | jasta | i mean, i like having the option to construct them/manipulate them on the phone, but that certainly shouldnt be the main way. |
| 18:56.07 | zhobbs | EQU: that's what TuneWiki is for! |
| 18:57.22 | anno^da | I'm with jasta in that point. It doesnt make much sense to create the playlist on the mobile device. (Looking at a library with more than 6000 songs) |
| 18:58.02 | zhobbs | anno^da: it's not bad to make playlists if you can add entire artists/albums with one long click |
| 18:58.24 | anno^da | Well the making is not that bad |
| 18:58.28 | *** join/#android EQU (n=chatzill@user-89-108-229-107.mobile.playmobile.pl) |
| 18:58.37 | anno^da | But browsing through your library will be |
| 18:59.36 | anno^da | But even more I'd like to see flac support :). I'd like to get my mini amp connected to the phone and not convert a lot of my library. |
| 18:59.53 | anno^da | +to some lossy format |
| 19:00.06 | zhobbs | anno^da: how much storage do you expect? or are you talking streaming remote ? |
| 19:00.26 | anno^da | Well I'm expecting a lot of storage in future devices. |
| 19:00.51 | anno^da | Not in the first devices but later on therte will be a lot of storage. |
| 19:00.59 | zhobbs | anno^da: that'd be nice |
| 19:01.07 | anno^da | I'm used to mobile players with 60GB+ :) |
| 19:01.19 | SanMehat | SanDisk should have their 16 gig microSDHC cards out soon but thats not quite 60 :) |
| 19:01.28 | anno^da | (I know it is not realistic for the beginning ) |
| 19:01.44 | anno^da | SanMehat: Yeah not in the near future :) |
| 19:03.08 | anno^da | But even browsing through 16GB of music isnt that funny |
| 19:04.21 | zhobbs | anno^da: if you're just browsing artists it's not that bad...ListViews can fling pretty far |
| 19:05.21 | anno^da | Yeah ok. |
| 19:06.45 | anno^da | I'm curious about the battery life. Playing music, GPS, wifi, UMTS etc. |
| 19:07.26 | anno^da | I'd like to see some solar panel on devices in the future. :) |
| 19:09.10 | plusminus_ | what turned MapPoint into in 0.9 ? |
| 19:09.25 | zhobbs | GeoPoint? |
| 19:14.07 | *** join/#android cax (n=cax@124-168-23-180.dyn.iinet.net.au) |
| 19:15.21 | *** join/#android cax_ (n=cax@124-168-23-180.dyn.iinet.net.au) |
| 19:20.02 | *** join/#android cliff_ (n=cliff@c-98-232-10-222.hsd1.wa.comcast.net) |
| 19:23.54 | *** join/#android joesmith (n=joesmith@216-64-141-98.static.twtelecom.net) |
| 19:27.51 | *** part/#android joesmith (n=joesmith@216-64-141-98.static.twtelecom.net) |
| 19:28.41 | *** join/#android cobracommander (n=joesmith@216-64-141-98.static.twtelecom.net) |
| 19:29.01 | *** part/#android cobracommander (n=joesmith@216-64-141-98.static.twtelecom.net) |
| 19:36.01 | *** join/#android joesmith (n=joesmith@216-64-141-98.static.twtelecom.net) |
| 19:36.04 | *** part/#android joesmith (n=joesmith@216-64-141-98.static.twtelecom.net) |
| 19:37.58 | *** join/#android uniquecomplete (n=uniqueco@216-64-141-98.static.twtelecom.net) |
| 19:48.15 | *** join/#android romainguy_ (n=romaingu@nat/google/x-90fd8529c4ea1d36) |
| 20:02.44 | *** part/#android stadler (n=stadler@nat/google/x-7cbff2e01ebd5384) |
| 20:03.16 | *** join/#android stadler (n=stadler@nat/google/x-7cbff2e01ebd5384) |
| 20:04.13 | anno^da | oh the interface doesnt get any good feedback in the comments you can read all along the news sites that write something about the app store. |
| 20:08.07 | *** join/#android trigatch4 (n=chatzill@c-68-33-22-200.hsd1.md.comcast.net) |
| 20:09.16 | trigatch4 | OH MY GOD! |
| 20:09.28 | trigatch4 | who saw the Android Market post? |
| 20:09.55 | anno^da | ? |
| 20:10.01 | Dougie187 | ome android market post? |
| 20:10.06 | Dougie187 | omg* |
| 20:10.06 | *** join/#android matt_c_ (n=mcroydon@gozur.sunflowerbroadband.com) |
| 20:11.09 | jasta | trigatch4: old news. |
| 20:11.19 | trigatch4 | hahaha |
| 20:11.22 | trigatch4 | i fell asleep |
| 20:11.23 | *** topic/#android by morrildl -> You don't have to use it, but we thought it might be useful: http://android-developers.blogspot.com/2008/08/android-market-user-driven-content.html |
| 20:11.24 | trigatch4 | just read it |
| 20:11.47 | trigatch4 | old news as in earlier today? or assumed when android was announced? |
| 20:11.58 | umdk1d3 | somewhat assumed, but now we have details |
| 20:12.11 | trigatch4 | i'm just incredibly, incredibly happy they aren't going to suffocate the development comxmunity like the iPhone App Store has |
| 20:12.18 | trigatch4 | at least, it sounds like they won't based on the blog post |
| 20:12.26 | umdk1d3 | actually goes to read |
| 20:12.35 | trigatch4 | i was somewhat worried about that |
| 20:13.00 | *** join/#android dasilvj (n=dasilvj@did75-1-81-57-20-118.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 20:13.14 | trigatch4 | but i think security and malicious applications needs to be addressed... which is what I'm sure they're working on... any thoughts on that morrildl? |
| 20:13.50 | umdk1d3 | there is that one screenshot that handles permission-granting |
| 20:14.03 | umdk1d3 | and i assume there is a "report this app" option |
| 20:14.30 | anno^da | Why should they. In the desktop space you dont have that either. |
| 20:14.47 | anno^da | You have millions of download sites |
| 20:15.01 | anno^da | And no one is protecting you from the evil :-) |
| 20:17.53 | anno^da | A rating system is all you need. I dont like it if someone tries me to protect from everything and everyone. |
| 20:18.07 | anno^da | tries to protect ... :-) |
| 20:18.19 | morrildl | yeah there will be various security mechanisms in place |
| 20:18.32 | morrildl | the most important of which is: make sure the OS is secure by design :) |
| 20:18.41 | morrildl | but there are other mechanism as well |
| 20:19.00 | Dougie187 | is there symantec for your phone? |
| 20:19.10 | Dougie187 | or ClamAV. |
| 20:19.14 | anno^da | lol |
| 20:19.18 | Dougie187 | heh |
| 20:19.19 | anno^da | help |
| 20:19.22 | anno^da | :) |
| 20:21.39 | anno^da | morrildl: How will they look like except the OS security ? |
| 20:27.07 | *** part/#android Dougie187 (n=doug@wg-d232091.dsl.fsu.edu) |
| 20:28.07 | *** join/#android anno^da_ (n=anno@p5B07C454.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 20:37.45 | *** join/#android umdk1d4 (n=umdk1d3@adsl-dynamic-64-79-45-41.bridgeband.net) |
| 20:38.39 | *** join/#android nowi (n=nowi@e179006060.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 20:49.10 | *** join/#android cbeust (n=cbeust@154.sub-75-209-79.myvzw.com) |
| 20:49.18 | *** join/#android jasonlee (n=jasonlee@pool-96-226-67-239.dllstx.fios.verizon.net) |
| 20:52.17 | *** join/#android nowi (n=nowi@e179006060.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 20:53.37 | *** join/#android chab7 (n=kvirc@183-17-170.ip.adsl.hu) |
| 20:58.44 | *** join/#android plusminus_ (i=4421a620@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-5a510aa8547139f9) |
| 20:59.08 | tomgibara | The application installer should allow a user to deny one or more permissions to an app, but still let them install it. |
| 21:00.10 | f00f- | i disagree tomigabra, sinceusers wont know about permissions and some apps will horribly fail if requested perms arent given since error handling needs to be intense |
| 21:00.32 | tomgibara | The manifest should probably allow an application to mark a permission as optional, suggested and necessary |
| 21:00.46 | f00f- | perhaps |
| 21:00.56 | tomgibara | f00f-: Users are already being exposed to the permission lists |
| 21:01.10 | f00f- | so i saw and i'm thinking is it proper |
| 21:01.18 | f00f- | probably, as long as the language is clear and simple |
| 21:01.27 | tomgibara | None of my apps assume they have any permission |
| 21:02.19 | tomgibara | That is, they fail as gracefully as they can in the absence of any permission so long as it's not completely necessary to the app (like the new NETWORK one) |
| 21:06.19 | f00f- | right |
| 21:10.23 | morrildl | f00f-: yes, the explicit decision is not to push too much choice onto users, because the more choice, the more complex repercussions you have to think about. The worst case is that the app is coded poorly and crashes or something for certain configurations of permission grants |
| 21:11.02 | morrildl | We don't want to see threads like "Application XYZ crashed, it sucks." "No no, you just have to not deny it the EAT_CAKE permission." |
| 21:12.50 | f00f- | i was just thinking "Development tools" and maybe "System tools" should have a warning in red... most users will NEVER install apps that need those perms |
| 21:12.56 | f00f- | morrildl: right |
| 21:13.12 | tomgibara | morrildl: I can see that argument, but its extreme conclusion (which will probably occur) is that as an application grows within its niche to interact nicely with all the apps on your phone, you will be left with lots of the most popular apps requesting every permission. Then you end up rendering the whole concept a waste of time. |
| 21:13.35 | f00f- | even if users are given choice, most blindly just Next-Next-Next it away or do Accept All or equivalent |
| 21:17.58 | tomgibara | I'm basically predicting that most apps will fundamentally require a small number of permissions, and that many (especially of the successful ones) will evolve to require lots of permissions that aren't fundamental, but useful. |
| 21:19.16 | tomgibara | I would go as far as to say that the permissions system will become totally unworkable without giving users the option to refuse certain permissions to applications and still install them. |
| 21:21.02 | umdk1d4 | lol @ EAT_CAKE |
| 21:21.31 | morrildl | umdk1d4: contrary to popular belief, the cake is NOT a lie. |
| 21:22.14 | umdk1d4 | that game was awesome ;) now if only they would port it to android |
| 21:29.27 | *** join/#android anno^da (n=anno@p5B07C454.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 21:29.35 | *** join/#android matt_c (n=mcroydon@gozur.sunflowerbroadband.com) |
| 21:29.45 | dmoffett | Based on the top apps at the iTunes store permissions will not be a big problem. Three of the top paid apps are ambience apps. Not sure what this says about iPhone users. :-) |
| 21:31.49 | anno^da | I will do some of this apps as well :-) |
| 21:33.58 | tomgibara | morrildl: I think the question of application permissions is very important. Developers need clarification on the semantics of <uses-permissions>. |
| 21:34.30 | tomgibara | Does it mean that an application demands the permission to run? or requests it? There's a huge difference for the developer. |
| 21:35.01 | morrildl | tomgibara: well there's not much to clarify. All permissions are enforced at installation time |
| 21:35.09 | morrildl | they are enforced as a set |
| 21:35.18 | morrildl | if the user doesn't grant permission, the app is not installed |
| 21:35.25 | tomgibara | okay |
| 21:35.40 | morrildl | the Market will parse out <uses-permission>s from the Manifest in the .apk and use that in the UI that you see |
| 21:36.02 | morrildl | Are those the details you were looking for? |
| 21:36.18 | tomgibara | That is not stated at all in the documentation |
| 21:36.22 | morrildl | hmm |
| 21:36.28 | morrildl | okay then that is a docs bug :) |
| 21:36.39 | morrildl | goes to enter it |
| 21:36.43 | tomgibara | What I mean is that it's silent on that question |
| 21:36.54 | morrildl | yeah that's still a docs bug :) |
| 21:37.20 | *** join/#android uniquecomplete (n=uniqueco@216-64-141-98.static.twtelecom.net) |
| 21:37.37 | umdk1d4 | wonders |
| 21:37.44 | tomgibara | From the docs: At application install time, permissions requested by the application are granted to it by the package installer, based on checks with trusted authorities and interaction with the user. |
| 21:37.54 | morrildl | tomgibara: ahhhhhhhhhh yes |
| 21:37.56 | morrildl | that |
| 21:38.12 | morrildl | yeah the hedge there was b/c we weren't sure if there would be a sort of plug-in API for "security providers" |
| 21:38.34 | morrildl | like, say, your employer installs a component that prevents the user from granting like contact book permissions or something |
| 21:38.45 | morrildl | there is no such API in 1.0 so we need to update that to remove the hedge |
| 21:39.07 | tomgibara | and strengthen "granted" to something like "granted as a set" |
| 21:39.15 | umdk1d4 | s/employer/verizon/g OHSNAP |
| 21:39.22 | tomgibara | I still think it's a bad mistake though |
| 21:40.54 | *** join/#android milos_ (n=milos@92.36.164.210) |
| 21:43.12 | romainguy_ | tomgibara: fine grained permission grant is a pain in the *** for apps developers though |
| 21:43.18 | tomgibara | It creates a stupid situation where developers must weigh-up adding a feature against the security concerns of a possibly small set of their users, without any sensible way of resolving the problem. |
| 21:43.20 | romainguy_ | I remember using this with Java WebStart |
| 21:43.50 | tomgibara | romainguy_: I am sensible to the counter problem too |
| 21:44.17 | romainguy_ | at least there's no way for an app to request ALL permissions in one line :) |
| 21:44.21 | romainguy_ | slaps Java WebStart |
| 21:45.12 | tomgibara | Sadly, a natural inheritance from Java's desktop traditions |
| 21:47.21 | tomgibara | The situation I can forsee is that something like a game developer might think it's great if it uses my contacts to make it easier to play with friends, and I as a user I think I'd love to install a game for my commute to work, but I don't want to risk exposing business contacts to a game |
| 21:48.17 | *** join/#android inZane-_ (i=nemo@dslb-084-058-006-187.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 21:49.55 | tomgibara | The game developer can only drop the feature, lose sensitive business users, or ship two versions - an option that naturally becomes very problematic |
| 21:58.13 | *** join/#android BlackBsd (n=brian@72.168.193.117) |
| 22:05.47 | *** join/#android BlackBsd (n=brian@72.168.193.117) |
| 22:07.24 | *** join/#android AttractiveApe (n=phil@office.gossamer-threads.com) |
| 22:11.34 | gambler | trigatch4, try tinyMCE if your still looking |
| 22:12.23 | trigatch4 | thanks gambler, i'll give that a whirl. off to the grocery store for now.. bbl |
| 22:12.28 | *** join/#android duey (n=Nick@203.96.223.40) |
| 22:17.01 | *** join/#android umdk1d3 (n=umdk1d3@adsl-dynamic-64-79-45-41.bridgeband.net) |
| 22:23.41 | *** join/#android Dougie187 (n=doug@68.35.245.156) |
| 22:24.46 | *** join/#android umdk1d4_ (n=umdk1d3@adsl-dynamic-64-79-45-41.bridgeband.net) |
| 22:36.48 | *** join/#android nowi_ (n=nowi@e179001154.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 22:40.01 | morrildl | http://code.google.com/android/adc_gallery/ |
| 22:40.46 | morrildl | http://android-developers.blogspot.com/2008/08/presenting-winners-of-android-developer.html |
| 22:42.04 | jasta | wow, really getting it together today huh? |
| 22:42.20 | morrildl | jasta: well, we'd wanted to spread these out over a couple days, but hey |
| 22:42.29 | morrildl | holiday weekend and whatnot |
| 22:44.31 | f00f- | nice !!! |
| 22:45.30 | morrildl | ...and like /that/, I'm gone. |
| 22:45.40 | morrildl | see y'all next week, after the US holiday weekend :) |
| 22:45.58 | f00f- | cheers |
| 22:46.42 | dmoffett | enjoy |
| 22:46.48 | *** part/#android morrildl (n=chatzill@nat/google/x-2145b5b1db181c47) |
| 22:47.13 | jasta | i feel like i haven't even heard of some of these? |
| 22:47.22 | jasta | did a lot of them change names or something? |
| 22:47.26 | f00f- | many did |
| 22:47.40 | f00f- | are there 50 on that page? |
| 22:47.58 | jasta | cab4me looks neat, but i still wonder where in the hell it gets its data |
| 22:48.51 | f00f- | lol |
| 22:48.55 | f00f- | 2 bar code apps in the top 10 |
| 22:48.57 | dmoffett | f00f u were in the adc final right? |
| 22:49.08 | f00f- | yeah non-winners |
| 22:49.15 | f00f- | bottom of the page |
| 22:49.18 | f00f- | VERY bottom lol |
| 22:49.21 | jasta | that sucks :\ |
| 22:49.31 | jasta | but i'm not surprised given the conversation we had earlier. |
| 22:49.38 | f00f- | me neither |
| 22:49.40 | dmoffett | hey you should be proud. A lot of us are on the side lines. :-) |
| 22:49.42 | jasta | Google flexing its muscle a little bit... |
| 22:49.47 | f00f- | data is what is our big struggle :P |
| 22:49.59 | f00f- | yeah, well i'm so glad we have a good community |
| 22:50.09 | jasta | which is also why i cant figure out how cab4me works |
| 22:50.14 | jasta | if it works great, that is a HUGE service |
| 22:50.15 | dmoffett | besides the real judge is the market. |
| 22:50.23 | jasta | but i dont understand how it will. |
| 22:50.44 | jasta | yeah wait a minute, what the hell. two bar code apps in the top slot? |
| 22:51.02 | f00f- | also 7 judges total ;P |
| 22:51.07 | dmoffett | Really? I was just in Chicago and getting a taxi is easy but I don't spend much time in the city... |
| 22:51.54 | jasta | dmoffett: well, it would be nice to be able to call one then go wait outside and try to snag one that drives by |
| 22:51.58 | jasta | at lesat you know one will get there at some point |
| 22:52.00 | Dougie187 | damn. thats cool to see the apps |
| 22:52.05 | dmoffett | I see. |
| 22:52.08 | Dougie187 | f00f-: did you win? |
| 22:52.21 | _avatar | re |
| 22:52.21 | jasta | ohh, click on the app |
| 22:52.23 | f00f- | nope |
| 22:52.24 | jasta | it talks lots more about them |
| 22:52.33 | _avatar | er, wrong window, sorry ;) |
| 22:52.43 | f00f- | man some of these winners are really polished |
| 22:52.55 | _avatar | yeah, there are some really impressive UI's in there |
| 22:53.01 | gambler | f00f-, which one is yours? |
| 22:53.16 | f00f- | gambler: PedNav |
| 22:53.50 | gambler | so you solved the TSP? :p |
| 22:54.06 | dmoffett | ecorio is the one I don't really understand? |
| 22:54.08 | f00f- | TSP ? |
| 22:54.15 | gambler | travelling salesman problem |
| 22:54.20 | f00f- | hahahah |
| 22:54.26 | f00f- | we solved it for round 1 |
| 22:54.32 | f00f- | but it was too specific so we genericized it |
| 22:54.52 | gambler | nice |
| 22:55.19 | f00f- | ok so jasta question for you |
| 22:55.22 | jasta | yes? |
| 22:55.25 | f00f- | which ones of the top 20 would YOU install on your device :) |
| 22:55.41 | jasta | well, i thought jeffrey's app was cool, but now since there are two that do exactly the same thing i dont know |
| 22:55.46 | jasta | and if the taxi app works, i'll use that |
| 22:56.29 | Dougie187 | i don't really see the point of the taxi one, though i haven't read it yet. but it seems like Googling taxi's near... |
| 22:56.59 | jasta | i thought it would let you call them to your location automagically? |
| 22:58.08 | dmoffett | Locale seems like a very simple idea that would be useful. |
| 22:59.16 | jasta | yes, i like Locale |
| 22:59.18 | jasta | i think that would be cool too |
| 22:59.24 | tomgibara | dmoffett: I raised on this channel, when the 50 were first announced that Locale's simple idea is actually patented - probably the reason you haven't seen it on a phone |
| 22:59.42 | dmoffett | ouch |
| 23:00.00 | jasta | still wonders how TuneWiki is not a copyright violation. |
| 23:00.01 | dmoffett | Guess they will have to just spend the 250k in Vegas. :-) |
| 23:00.05 | tomgibara | It's a problem with the competition - Google don't really have a way of ensuring that IP issues are addressed |
| 23:00.25 | tomgibara | Tom wonders the same thing |
| 23:00.42 | tomgibara | urgh tired |
| 23:00.47 | jasta | i talked briefly with the TuneWiki guy about this, and he just simply assured me it was without any justification |
| 23:01.08 | jasta | maybe it's just because the "big dogs" haven't sat up and taken notice yet. the shut stuff like that down all the time. |
| 23:01.30 | tomgibara | incidentally it's IBM who own the patent, so they can enforce it if they want to |
| 23:01.42 | jasta | i always thought the legal implication was publicly discussed by Apple a while back and why the iPod and junk never had those features centralized for the user |
| 23:01.46 | Dougie187 | wtf... this one sounds like rape waiting to happen. PhoneBook 2.0 " Ideally suited for teenagers willing to share their mood and location" |
| 23:02.04 | jasta | Dougie187: yeah, an open letter to parents: |
| 23:02.06 | f00f- | HAHA |
| 23:02.08 | Dougie187 | granted, this is just from the little blurb. i didnt read anything else. |
| 23:02.08 | dmoffett | The big guys can shut you down just by the weight of their lawyers. They don't even havve to be right. |
| 23:02.10 | jasta | "Do NOT buy your child an Android phone!" |
| 23:02.26 | jasta | dmoffett: yeah, but it helps when they are. :) |
| 23:02.32 | jasta | dmoffett: it costs less. |
| 23:02.50 | dmoffett | quite true. |
| 23:02.55 | Dougie187 | i dont get the point i guess. i just read that and though "Teenage pregnancy rate THROUGH THE ROOF!" |
| 23:02.57 | Dougie187 | lol |
| 23:03.03 | tomgibara | I wouldn't anyway, there's no way of limiting permissions on what your child can install or even visit on the browers |
| 23:03.19 | Dougie187 | heh |
| 23:03.27 | Dougie187 | Thats where Electric Fence comes in! |
| 23:03.30 | Dougie187 | Right Jasta? |
| 23:03.37 | jasta | yes, god damnit. |
| 23:03.43 | jasta | somebody write that, it would be a smash hit :) |
| 23:03.43 | Dougie187 | if i ever get around to it... |
| 23:03.51 | tomgibara | Electric Fence? |
| 23:04.06 | Dougie187 | yeah. its the app im supposed to be working on. |
| 23:04.13 | jasta | tomgibara: i had this idea a while back to let you specify parameters of your connection and/or parental control limits |
| 23:04.19 | jasta | and the phone would "zap" you when you near or hit those limits. |
| 23:04.24 | jasta | like text message, data usage, voice minutes... |
| 23:04.35 | dmoffett | The virus and anti virus programs are sure to make money as well. |
| 23:04.41 | jasta | and could do things like warn you after you end a call "Hey deadbeat, that call just cost you $4.95!" |
| 23:04.55 | Dougie187 | or warn you before you make a call |
| 23:04.59 | dmoffett | that is a good idea. |
| 23:05.02 | Dougie187 | and say "Hey you don't have any minutes left" |
| 23:05.08 | tomgibara | Nice idea, couldn't work on Android though :( |
| 23:05.10 | jasta | and i think "Electric Fence" is a good name for it. |
| 23:05.18 | dmoffett | I need that for my wife and her credit card. |
| 23:05.18 | Dougie187 | and you could make hard limits. like for your kids. |
| 23:05.43 | jasta | also, i had an idea to let you make secret contacts and automatically ignore incoming calls/text messages from them, and automatically remove outgoing communication from the logs |
| 23:05.53 | jasta | with a special gesture to open up the app and get access to those things |
| 23:05.56 | Dougie187 | yeah but thats a different prog. |
| 23:06.05 | jasta | yeah but im just brain dumping :) |
| 23:06.12 | Dougie187 | thats the "hey i wanna hang out with my ex girlfriend" creepy app |
| 23:06.22 | tomgibara | I recall that one, for cheating spouses wasn't it? |
| 23:06.34 | Dougie187 | heh. |
| 23:06.37 | Dougie187 | for jasta you mean. |
| 23:06.40 | jasta | it's for whatever you want it for |
| 23:06.51 | jasta | i would use it to hide the random drunk dials from my ex-girlfriend |
| 23:07.00 | gambler | dmoffett, good luck with that |
| 23:07.01 | jasta | but then still keep a log of them, for my own record ;) |
| 23:07.25 | tomgibara | :) Not something I would want to log, but each to his own |
| 23:07.58 | Dougie187 | yeah i wouldn't want to log it either. |
| 23:08.28 | tomgibara | I think the competition did produce a lot of excellent apps and everyone should be commended for their effort |
| 23:08.59 | Dougie187 | are you in there tomgibara? |
| 23:09.11 | gambler | how many apps were submitted total? I imagine it was <100 making this a very +EV contest |
| 23:09.12 | Dougie187 | ... |
| 23:09.17 | tomgibara | Dougie187: I helped out a little on Cooking Capsules |
| 23:09.22 | Dougie187 | gambler: have you been around for very long? |
| 23:09.30 | Dougie187 | Oh, so your one of muthu's buddies? |
| 23:09.58 | gambler | Dougie187, a little while |
| 23:10.17 | Dougie187 | gambler: here this is for you. http://android-developers.blogspot.com/2008/05/challenge-in-more-than-one-way.html |
| 23:10.47 | tomgibara | Dougie187: Your question made me pause, I've never used the word buddy to describe anyone. |
| 23:10.59 | Dougie187 | lol |
| 23:11.07 | gambler | wow |
| 23:11.20 | Dougie187 | like you want to know what buddy means? or you just didn't get it at first? |
| 23:11.27 | tomgibara | I'm English, "acquaintance" is the word the came immediately to mind |
| 23:11.31 | Dougie187 | hah |
| 23:11.34 | Dougie187 | not friend i take it? |
| 23:12.16 | tomgibara | Well, I'm hesitating to answer, because to Americans this will sound like a snub - which it isn't, but no |
| 23:12.30 | tomgibara | Only because I reserve the word friend for true friends |
| 23:12.53 | Dougie187 | so your friend is what the ladies would call. "BF" |
| 23:12.56 | Dougie187 | "BFF"* |
| 23:13.25 | Dougie187 | either way. |
| 23:13.32 | tomgibara | Perhaps, but I've never knowingly met a woman who used the expression |
| 23:13.36 | Dougie187 | hes just someone you know then. and you were helping him. |
| 23:13.54 | f00f- | a buddy |
| 23:13.55 | f00f- | <PROTECTED> |
| 23:13.59 | tomgibara | It's slightly more than that :) |
| 23:14.02 | Dougie187 | yeah. |
| 23:14.05 | Dougie187 | hes your buddy. |
| 23:14.18 | Dougie187 | buddy is less then a friend. |
| 23:14.34 | Dougie187 | than* |
| 23:14.48 | f00f- | city slikkers looks/seems cool |
| 23:15.00 | f00f- | as long as it's a smooth and quick UI |
| 23:15.01 | tomgibara | Okay, well, I'll be educated by your superior understanding of American English and say Muthu's my buddy |
| 23:15.22 | Dougie187 | a lot of the pictures are good. |
| 23:15.23 | Dougie187 | heh |
| 23:15.29 | gambler | what does cooking capsules do that has to do with mobility |
| 23:15.54 | Dougie187 | its mobile shopping lists! |
| 23:16.02 | tomgibara | gambler: That strikes me as a slighly odd question |
| 23:16.03 | Dougie187 | and mobile cooking shows! |
| 23:16.10 | Dougie187 | and its on a mobile phone. |
| 23:16.15 | tomgibara | Yes, it's more media focused |
| 23:16.19 | Dougie187 | all signs point to mobility. |
| 23:16.22 | gambler | ah I just saw the shopping list part. That makes sense |
| 23:16.27 | f00f- | i love the concept of the Cooking Capsules app, but not sure how consumers will react to it |
| 23:16.41 | tomgibara | "Watch, Shop and Make" is the tagline |
| 23:16.44 | Dougie187 | well. i mean, you have to hook your phone up to a printer to use it. and you have to hard line it.. and plug it in... |
| 23:16.46 | Dougie187 | but still.. |
| 23:16.49 | Dougie187 | (j/k) |
| 23:16.55 | f00f- | printer... lol |
| 23:17.01 | *** part/#android Acsia (n=Acsia@78-86-205-140.zone2.bethere.co.uk) |
| 23:17.04 | Dougie187 | heh |
| 23:17.08 | Dougie187 | thats how you get the shopping list! |
| 23:17.11 | tomgibara | See a cooking show, buy the ingredients, follow the steps |
| 23:17.11 | dmoffett | I guess they need to add that icon. |
| 23:17.54 | tomgibara | I personally think Cooking Capsules is the best app idea on that list, and probably the only one I would install onto my phone. |
| 23:18.06 | Dougie187 | i don't |
| 23:18.08 | f00f- | lol |
| 23:18.16 | Dougie187 | i might install it. but i don't know how useful it would be for me. |
| 23:18.26 | tomgibara | Naturally, everyone will have different personal views |
| 23:18.30 | dmoffett | On the iPhone the app I use most outside of normal mobile apps is RottenTomatoes app. |
| 23:18.37 | gambler | Id install it on my wife or girlfriends phone :p |
| 23:18.39 | jasta | dmoffett: whats that? |
| 23:18.54 | dmoffett | rates movies and dvs. |
| 23:18.59 | dmoffett | dvds. |
| 23:18.59 | Dougie187 | i would give diggin a try |
| 23:19.14 | Dougie187 | and the bar code ones might be useful at some point too. but i dont know how much i would use them. |
| 23:19.26 | tomgibara | I do most of the cooking for our family, so that's one reason it appeals |
| 23:19.55 | f00f- | perhaps the most useful app is Locale, i think |
| 23:20.06 | f00f- | since i change my ring profile many times a day |
| 23:20.06 | tomgibara | I'm concious that most of the channel members here will be younger than me - I think Cooking Capsules appeals to a very wide audience |
| 23:20.14 | f00f- | sleep, office, out |
| 23:20.24 | f00f- | would be nice to automatically do it |
| 23:20.26 | Dougie187 | true. that would be really useful |
| 23:20.39 | Dougie187 | then i don't need to have my phone on silent all the time. |
| 23:20.49 | tomgibara | Except, presumably you need GPS on |
| 23:20.51 | dmoffett | Locale is the one app I am ashamed I did not think of. So simple so useful. |
| 23:21.08 | f00f- | yeah although even Cell ID would be good enough usually |
| 23:21.32 | tomgibara | How much battery power does that consume? |
| 23:21.39 | tomgibara | Trangulation I mean |
| 23:22.00 | Dougie187 | i wouldn't think too terribly much. |
| 23:22.01 | f00f- | far less than GPS |
| 23:22.03 | jasta | dmoffett: my friend wrote that for Symbian s60 for his undergrad project. |
| 23:22.04 | Dougie187 | especially if done efficiently. |
| 23:22.08 | jasta | dmoffett: exactly Locale. ;) |
| 23:22.32 | f00f- | just get nearby cell towers' LAC/CID info and signal strength, send to a server and get back a location with a degree of accuuracy |
| 23:23.27 | tomgibara | I'm interested to see of how well any of the location based apps will work in practice |
| 23:24.10 | dmoffett | f00f the accuracy of cell tower triangulation on the iPHone is not really good enough for Locale imo. |
| 23:24.35 | tomgibara | Failure rates for ad-hoc locational devices (not specicalized sat-navs) are high in my limited experience |
| 23:24.39 | f00f- | well it depends really |
| 23:24.53 | f00f- | how you set your Locale triggers |
| 23:24.56 | f00f- | if they are spread apart |
| 23:25.01 | f00f- | then a 5 mile radius might not matter at all |
| 23:25.13 | f00f- | Cell ID can give you several hundredmeters to few km |
| 23:25.14 | dmoffett | It would be worse if Locale turned your phone off/on at the wrong times. |
| 23:25.22 | f00f- | ya :D |
| 23:25.54 | f00f- | tbh many of these apps can be consumed and combined |
| 23:25.56 | *** join/#android The_PHP_Jedi (n=ThePHPJe@unaffiliated/thephpjedi/x-000002) |
| 23:26.02 | f00f- | especially the LBS ones |
| 23:27.40 | tomgibara | f00f-: The problem is that it will only take one or two missed calls for many users to ditch a Locale-like app |
| 23:27.50 | f00f- | yeah |
| 23:28.01 | *** join/#android BBHoss (n=bbhoss@c-68-62-170-33.hsd1.al.comcast.net) |
| 23:28.02 | f00f- | so i hope the top 20 polish them with a good chemical |
| 23:28.16 | Dougie187 | well you know some of them are done. |
| 23:28.17 | f00f- | and i'm sure they will |
| 23:28.37 | f00f- | practice might be a bit different |
| 23:28.38 | Dougie187 | the one's that didn't deserve to win, they are just going to take their money and run. |
| 23:29.48 | gambler | what will the GPS resolution be like? Ive heard the GPS on the Freerunner can have a 50M error |
| 23:30.13 | dmoffett | One thing a few of have noticed from the iTunes store is simple apps and games seem to be the most popular. It will be interesting to compare the winners to the apps that win over the market. |
| 23:30.57 | Dougie187 | true. |
| 23:31.12 | Dougie187 | but i think these apps are going to get a decent amount of usage, even if they end up sucking. |
| 23:31.19 | Dougie187 | just because they won't the first comp |
| 23:31.24 | Dougie187 | won* |
| 23:31.56 | dmoffett | Some of the apps have a chicken and egg problem. |
| 23:32.09 | Dougie187 | yeah |
| 23:32.18 | Dougie187 | i'll be intersted to see how they turn out. |
| 23:33.29 | tomgibara | dmoffett: Being winners helps them a lot with that |
| 23:34.03 | dmoffett | Could be. |
| 23:44.30 | trigatch4 | ADC Round 1 winners announced?!??!???!?! |
| 23:44.49 | trigatch4 | http://android-developers.blogspot.com/2008/08/presenting-winners-of-android-developer.html |
| 23:45.00 | trigatch4 | am i late again? |
| 23:45.03 | dmoffett | yes |
| 23:45.28 | gambler | ancient news internet time :) |
| 23:47.19 | Dougie187 | trigatch4: you tend to be late on everything. |
| 23:47.20 | Dougie187 | lol |
| 23:47.24 | Dougie187 | you should just assume you are late. |
| 23:47.32 | trigatch4 | son of a BITCH |
| 23:47.39 | Dougie187 | ? |
| 23:47.58 | trigatch4 | can't even go to the bathroom around this place without missing crap |
| 23:48.04 | trigatch4 | i sit around for 3 months and nothing happens |
| 23:48.10 | trigatch4 | then i take a piss and the universe flys by |
| 23:48.17 | Dougie187 | lol |
| 23:49.55 | Dougie187 | were you in the top 50 trigatch4? |
| 23:50.07 | dmoffett | trigatch4 I think you just found an app to write. |
| 23:50.38 | trigatch4 | dougie187 i'm not even a developer |
| 23:50.49 | Dougie187 | but you own a forum? |
| 23:51.00 | trigatch4 | dmoffett what app is that? SMS notification upon universe flying past? |
| 23:51.08 | trigatch4 | i own a forum, yes... |
| 23:51.13 | trigatch4 | more for consumers |
| 23:51.23 | trigatch4 | people who want the phones, have android enabled phones, etc... |
| 23:51.41 | dmoffett | or maybe just when google announces things you want to announce. :-) |
| 23:52.46 | gambler | trigatch4, do you own other forums or is this your first foray into the forum business? |
| 23:53.09 | trigatch4 | i have a couple other |
| 23:53.11 | trigatch4 | why do you ask |
| 23:53.19 | Dougie187 | what are your orthers? |
| 23:53.37 | trigatch4 | http://mobileroar.com/forum is a more general one based around mobile industry |
| 23:53.43 | trigatch4 | biggest area there is on the LG Dare |
| 23:53.55 | trigatch4 | I started this whole forum facination with http://VerizonVoyager.org |
| 23:54.02 | trigatch4 | which amazingly took off... I didn't expect it... |
| 23:54.20 | Dougie187 | how long have you had this one? |
| 23:55.08 | gambler | trigatch4, some friends of mine just started a forum for gamblers |
| 23:56.36 | trigatch4 | sweet |
| 23:56.40 | trigatch4 | sounds degenerative |
| 23:56.44 | gambler | totally |
| 23:56.45 | trigatch4 | the type of place i would hang out |
| 23:56.48 | trigatch4 | and never escape |
| 23:56.50 | trigatch4 | hehe |
| 23:56.58 | gambler | haha i have that problem too |