| 00:00.46 | TSchultz55 | Project -> Clean shows 1 error |
| 00:01.03 | TSchultz55 | Location: Unknown ...... Type: "Generic ADT Problem" |
| 00:01.22 | TSchultz55 | maybe reinstall the SDK? |
| 00:01.33 | xavd | can you enable verbose build output (in the prefernces under Android > Build) ? |
| 00:01.41 | TSchultz55 | I did that too |
| 00:01.50 | TSchultz55 | nothing different than normal |
| 00:01.55 | xavd | hmm |
| 00:02.07 | TSchultz55 | something aint right |
| 00:02.08 | xavd | someone else mentioned that problem, and made sure to reinstall and the problem went away |
| 00:02.19 | TSchultz55 | reinstall what exactly |
| 00:02.29 | TSchultz55 | and what problem exactly....APK build fail? |
| 00:02.30 | xavd | what version of eclipse did you get? |
| 00:02.43 | TSchultz55 | 3.4 |
| 00:02.46 | TSchultz55 | Ganymede |
| 00:02.51 | xavd | yeah apk build fail with "error generating final archive: null" |
| 00:02.58 | TSchultz55 | yeah thats it rightthere |
| 00:02.58 | xavd | which distrib? |
| 00:03.13 | TSchultz55 | Ubuntu |
| 00:03.18 | TSchultz55 | Hardy |
| 00:03.30 | xavd | I meant Eclipse distribution (Classic, Java, J2EE, ...) |
| 00:03.35 | TSchultz55 | ahhhh |
| 00:03.53 | TSchultz55 | Java |
| 00:04.01 | xavd | hmm this should work |
| 00:04.10 | xavd | well you can try to uninstall the plugin and reinstall it |
| 00:04.17 | chomchom | Did you update any references to the old SDK you may have as environment variables like ANDROID_HOME? |
| 00:04.20 | xavd | but I'm not sure really how the first install can file like that |
| 00:04.32 | xavd | env variables are not used by the eclipse plugin |
| 00:04.42 | xavd | file = fail |
| 00:05.04 | TSchultz55 | chomchom: yeah i dont have an env. var. set |
| 00:05.30 | xavd | the doc is misleading regarding the env var, we need to fix that |
| 00:08.30 | chomchom | In the updatemanager, could you sanity check that both the Android Development Tools and Android Editors are at version 0.7.1.v200808141910-98467, unrelated but good to know. |
| 00:08.55 | TSchultz55 | yep they are |
| 00:09.36 | chomchom | xavd: so you don't need ANDRIOD_HOME in the ant runtime properties? |
| 00:10.03 | TSchultz55 | chomchom: are you using eclipse to launch the emulator? |
| 00:10.14 | chomchom | yeah |
| 00:10.39 | TSchultz55 | yeah i guess my understanding is that it's not needed |
| 00:10.46 | xavd | chomchom: I was talking about Eclipse, but I don't think ant requires it either. not 100% sure though. would have to check |
| 00:10.50 | TSchultz55 | Windows -> Preferences where u specify that path |
| 00:15.05 | chomchom | Its a bit funnny that you get the exact same error on two different machines, it must be down to your install process |
| 00:16.57 | chomchom | Try killing all the adb processes, killing eclipse, starting eclipse with a -clean and setting everything up again in a new workspace. Make sure adb is dead |
| 00:19.34 | TSchultz55 | no i only get it on one machine |
| 00:19.51 | TSchultz55 | yeah im doing a complete reboot right now |
| 00:20.08 | TSchultz55 | i'm going to try Eclipse Classic |
| 00:20.16 | jasta | reboot? Linux? hehe. |
| 00:20.27 | TSchultz55 | it's a crappy lappy |
| 00:21.15 | chomchom | It may have been an old adb process lurking around, I had some problems where I had to kill it aswell |
| 00:21.25 | TSchultz55 | going to try Eclipse Classic.....it says Eclipse Java comes with "Partial" WST support....which is a dep. the Android plugin |
| 00:21.30 | TSchultz55 | not sure what "partial" means |
| 00:21.54 | xavd | partial should be enough |
| 00:21.55 | *** join/#android KenBW2 (i=kenbw2@80-192-193-47.cable.ubr07.pres.blueyonder.co.uk) |
| 00:22.01 | KenBW2 | how do i run the SDK? |
| 00:22.10 | xavd | eclipse 3.4 anyway automatically downloads dependencies |
| 00:22.16 | TSchultz55 | chomchom: yeah I know...but doesn't explain why APK isn't being created |
| 00:22.27 | TSchultz55 | oh it does, eh? |
| 00:22.28 | TSchultz55 | hmm |
| 00:24.04 | jasta | KenBW2: read the install instructions. |
| 00:24.13 | KenBW2 | it mentions Eclipse and such |
| 00:24.24 | KenBW2 | i need some other progranm to run it? |
| 00:24.31 | jasta | KenBW2: Read every part that has nothing to do with Eclipse. |
| 00:25.24 | jasta | KenBW2: Eclipse is basically the only IDE they officially bothered to support. That's all. It's not required. |
| 00:25.55 | romainguy_ | it's also because Eclipse is by far the most used IDE amongst Java developers |
| 00:26.21 | KenBW2 | but i cant run it from Vista without extra software |
| 00:26.24 | KenBW2 | ? |
| 00:26.31 | TSchultz55 | KenBW2:you don't NEED Eclipse |
| 00:26.40 | TSchultz55 | what do you want to do with it? |
| 00:26.43 | TSchultz55 | just test it out? |
| 00:26.47 | KenBW2 | yea |
| 00:26.49 | TSchultz55 | or write software for it? |
| 00:26.55 | KenBW2 | take it for a test drive |
| 00:27.01 | TSchultz55 | you don't need eclipse |
| 00:27.06 | TSchultz55 | download the Windows ZIP |
| 00:27.08 | TSchultz55 | extract |
| 00:27.12 | KenBW2 | done |
| 00:27.16 | xavd | jasta: "bothered to support" is a big negative don't you think? It's quite a huge tasks to _properly_ support every IDE out there |
| 00:27.18 | TSchultz55 | double click emulator in tools |
| 00:27.43 | KenBW2 | ah yea, thanks |
| 00:28.00 | TSchultz55 | np |
| 00:28.12 | jasta | xavd: I didn't mean anything by it. |
| 00:28.28 | TSchultz55 | xavd: what kind of USB support is there going to be for android? |
| 00:28.39 | TSchultz55 | could I in theory connect peripherals? |
| 00:28.43 | jasta | TSchultz55: apparently, none available to us :) |
| 00:28.51 | TSchultz55 | heh |
| 00:29.05 | TSchultz55 | my project depends on it :( |
| 00:29.09 | jasta | but that's fine by me. so long as we can rip out all this "officially" this and that junk ;) |
| 00:29.28 | xavd | TSchultz55: not sure... and if I knew, all I could tell you is what's currently in the doc, sorry |
| 00:37.59 | *** part/#android KenBW2 (i=kenbw2@80-192-193-47.cable.ubr07.pres.blueyonder.co.uk) |
| 00:43.31 | TSchultz55 | damn |
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| 00:43.52 | TSchultz55 | reboot -> fresh eclipse install -> fresh android sdk install -> fresh ADT install |
| 00:43.54 | TSchultz55 | same error |
| 00:44.00 | TSchultz55 | *sigh* |
| 00:45.00 | jasta | any googlers know what the policy is for most apps when a critical service connection sudden disappears? |
| 00:45.07 | jasta | throw up an error and quit the app? |
| 00:45.17 | jasta | suddenly* |
| 00:45.38 | ttuttle | jasta: It's more polite to tell the user there's a problem and wait until the connection comes back if you can. |
| 00:45.57 | ttuttle | jasta: And then listen for network connection state broadcasts so you can retry automatically. |
| 00:46.05 | ttuttle | jasta: Lemme know if you want more info, I'll look it up. |
| 00:46.10 | zhobbs | jasta: sometimes I attempt to bind/start the service again |
| 00:46.15 | jasta | ttuttle: i mean an Android service. |
| 00:46.16 | ttuttle | jasta: (Note, this is personal opinion, not Google policy.) |
| 00:46.18 | ttuttle | jasta: Oh. |
| 00:46.27 | ttuttle | jasta: If it's "expected" to run, I think terminating is fine. |
| 00:46.33 | ttuttle | jasta: Retrying, within reason, would be nice. |
| 00:47.32 | zhobbs | jasta: but usually I just error out, in my case if it happened then somethings wrong |
| 00:47.55 | jasta | yeah, that seems reasonable to me i just wanted to check to see if google has some magic :) |
| 00:48.21 | jasta | i'm plowing through my activities one by one hardening and simplifying... |
| 00:48.45 | jasta | basically, over the next 2 weeks i intend to have rewritten a majority of the Android-specific parts of Five. |
| 00:49.03 | jasta | to be faster, better designed, etc. |
| 00:49.38 | ttuttle | jasta: What's Five? |
| 00:49.54 | ttuttle | jasta: If we had magic, it'd either be in the docs, or secret. |
| 00:51.53 | jasta | ttuttle: by magic, i meant "best practice" type stuff. |
| 00:51.56 | jasta | ttuttle: http://five.googlecode.com |
| 00:52.11 | ttuttle | jasta: Fuck, that's AWESOME! |
| 00:52.36 | jasta | thanks :) |
| 00:52.51 | ttuttle | jasta: /me takes back all the nasty things he's muttered about you while arguing about why Android isn't open source enough yet. |
| 00:52.54 | ttuttle | jasta: ;-) |
| 00:53.06 | ttuttle | jasta: Did you apply for ADC? |
| 00:53.35 | jasta | yes |
| 00:55.14 | jasta | *crickets* |
| 00:55.17 | ttuttle | jasta: lol |
| 00:55.17 | zhobbs | jasta: does the server submit your last.fm plays, or the client? |
| 00:55.21 | ttuttle | jasta: /me wishes he had been a judge. |
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| 00:55.36 | jasta | zhobbs: the client. it buffers them up until you stop raping your network connection, then submits them all in the background. |
| 00:56.22 | ttuttle | jasta: nice |
| 00:56.25 | ttuttle | jasta: this is awesome |
| 00:56.33 | ttuttle | is so excited about Android. |
| 00:56.35 | jasta | the server actually doesn't do much currently. just tracks changes on the PC and syncs them to the client when it asks. and of course streams the music. |
| 00:57.10 | jasta | it does of course collect meta data too though. the server handles downloading album artwork and resizes it nicely fro the client to digest. |
| 00:57.45 | zhobbs | when does the client digest it? just periodically in the bg? |
| 00:58.19 | zhobbs | (the album art) |
| 00:58.52 | jasta | the meta data synchronization is a separate service that runs periodically to check for changes and sync them back. it syncs all that stuff, album artwork including. |
| 00:58.55 | jasta | included* |
| 00:59.12 | jasta | the music player is actually in a totally separate apk even, and consumes the work that the sync client has done on demand. |
| 01:00.00 | jasta | right now, this design makes first-time syncs kind of painful, because you basically have to wait for it to be done to start doing stuff. but i plan to rearrange stuff for a more formal launch so it basically collects the main meta data first, then the album artowkr next. |
| 01:00.12 | jasta | so you can start playing around with it before it finishes first time sync |
| 01:00.30 | zhobbs | ohh, ok...the first time grabs all the album art too |
| 01:00.43 | jasta | yeah, the first time and periodic updates are actually the same process entirely. |
| 01:01.01 | jasta | the server also generalizes it this way. to either side, nothing is special. |
| 01:01.18 | ttuttle | jasta: You just start with an empty repository on the client? |
| 01:01.19 | jasta | it uses SyncML to do all the change tracking/syncing, which is a nice little protocol for this actually. |
| 01:01.29 | jasta | it's got all the proper hardening against massive conflicts built into the protocol |
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| 01:01.59 | jasta | ttuttle: Yeah. Thanks to Google's secrecy, I remain uncertain how to implement Five as a hybrid between traditional synced music and this new approach. That is ideally what I'd like to do. |
| 01:02.27 | jasta | So that users can sync it manually in addition to this networked approach if they want to. |
| 01:02.30 | ttuttle | What secrets do you need to do this? |
| 01:02.36 | ttuttle | Oh, you mean over USB? |
| 01:02.37 | jasta | But that's a total black box right now. |
| 01:02.43 | jasta | ttuttle: Yes. |
| 01:02.46 | ttuttle | jasta: Hmm. |
| 01:02.58 | jasta | But I don't really care about that yet. There is way too much work to do anyway :) |
| 01:03.01 | ttuttle | jasta: Okay. |
| 01:03.22 | jasta | I mean, it's just a nicety to let users do both. The design is very general, so I don't think it should be a problem to add later when I know more. |
| 01:04.13 | jasta | I basically felt like I designed the whole thing "in the dark" though, so there are a few gotchas in the UI that just plain won't fly for a production release. I'm spending between now and Android launch to iron all that out. |
| 01:05.27 | jasta | ttuttle: I am quite excited by 0.9r1 because of the inclusion of the sample music player. |
| 01:05.49 | ttuttle | jasta: Yeah, I'm excited about 0.9r1 'cause it's got my code in it! |
| 01:05.58 | jasta | I plan to lift a few of the nice things I like from that, and also it has given me a way to reflect on some of the stupid Android decisions I made early on. |
| 01:06.26 | jasta | Like I had no idea you could hold your service connections in a static context so all your activities don't have to constantly reconnect. *duh*. |
| 01:07.12 | jasta | anyway, yeah, i'm really excited to have my project launch. |
| 01:07.29 | jasta | i've been wanting this thing to exist for the last 2 years now :) |
| 01:08.20 | jasta | ttuttle: Apple just recently announced that they patented this whole idea hehe. I'm actually not too concerned. As an open source software engineer, I don't have to fight patents ;) |
| 01:08.42 | ttuttle | jasta: Apple needs to get a life and just make stuff. |
| 01:09.31 | jasta | anyway back to hacking ;) |
| 01:09.38 | jasta | i don't get a lot of "geek nights", so i gotta take them when i can hehe |
| 01:09.44 | jasta | my gf really monopolizes my time |
| 01:10.05 | ttuttle | jasta: ... |
| 01:10.21 | ttuttle | jasta: /me feels *so* sorry for you. Having a girlfriend must be such a pain.~ |
| 01:10.36 | jasta | i can't complain too much :) |
| 01:10.41 | ttuttle | jasta: s/too much //; |
| 01:10.42 | jasta | it's nicer tahn the alternative. |
| 01:11.01 | jasta | when i don't have a gf, i can't get anything done becuase i'm spending my time trolling for booty |
| 01:11.08 | ttuttle | jasta: lol |
| 01:11.09 | jasta | when i do have one, i can't get anything done because then i have to spend time with them :) |
| 01:11.17 | ttuttle | jasta: Find one who likes to code? |
| 01:11.46 | cbeust | ... or one who respects your passions |
| 01:11.53 | jasta | i don't think that would really help. then we'd have an impersonal relationship :) |
| 01:11.57 | ttuttle | Why? |
| 01:12.02 | ttuttle | You could cuddle while you code! |
| 01:12.28 | jasta | slowly backs away |
| 01:12.49 | ttuttle | ... |
| 01:12.59 | yakischloba | jasta: good thing you can geek out all day during work hours, otherwise that might actually be a problem huh? ;) |
| 01:13.50 | jasta | yeah, basically my job lets me cheat :) |
| 01:14.13 | yakischloba | heh. i start my new job on monday, I imagine I'll be absent for a couple months at least. |
| 01:14.22 | jasta | that's sweet, here at? |
| 01:14.25 | jasta | where* |
| 01:14.29 | jasta | oh right, this is the one in tukwila? |
| 01:14.31 | yakischloba | yeah |
| 01:14.56 | yakischloba | So excited to be moving the hell on |
| 01:15.02 | jasta | let me know how that goes :) |
| 01:15.10 | jasta | taht came out wrong |
| 01:15.13 | jasta | hehe |
| 01:15.22 | yakischloba | lol |
| 01:16.28 | yakischloba | well I guess with this SDK release my first excuse to not be working on my app is gone. |
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| 01:19.09 | yakischloba | Some things about compiled languages are so yucky |
| 01:32.21 | jasta | ttuttle: let's say i wanted to have some other part of my application modify something about a list entry, say change the text color, what would be the best way to do that? |
| 01:33.03 | jasta | the music app must need to do that when looking at the playlist since the playlist can arbitrarily advance... |
| 01:33.15 | cbeust | Is your list backed by a CursorAdapter? |
| 01:33.22 | jasta | yes |
| 01:33.41 | cbeust | Then modifying the data should cause a rebind and it should magically work |
| 01:33.42 | jasta | i have done this a lot in my app of course, but i keep feeling like my solution really sucks |
| 01:33.56 | jasta | cbeust: but the data in question is not a permanent state that should be committed back to the database. |
| 01:34.18 | jasta | the list data is, generally, but this particular change is a stateful change. |
| 01:34.46 | cbeust | It's not recommended to do that because if you move your list back and forth, the changes not committed to the cursor will be discarded |
| 01:34.58 | jasta | consider my example above. |
| 01:35.27 | jasta | when viewing the playlist, it marks the song currently playing. this state can change, but the data is likely backed by some sort of cursor. |
| 01:35.58 | jasta | but the cursor need not change to indicate this. that makes no sense. |
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| 01:36.42 | jasta | previously, i did this by basically using a flag or map in view binder that would just check if the row being collected was the one that the state change belongs to. if it does, it would draw it specially |
| 01:37.10 | jasta | so some other logic in the app would just add to that mapping, then invalidate the list. |
| 01:37.43 | jasta | i feel like there *must* be a better way. especially if you are doing lots of updates like showing progress of entries in a list |
| 01:38.40 | jasta | the way that views are recycled kinda clobbers the obvious approach of just searching for the row view in question and screwing with it |
| 01:40.32 | musique | jasta: just wrapper your cursor |
| 01:40.43 | musique | and *add* a field and return true if it's playing |
| 01:41.05 | musique | your bind view can treat this transient info like any other column |
| 01:41.23 | jasta | but what about the case of say updating a progress bar? how can it be the best approach to constantly invalidate the list when the progress changes? |
| 01:41.34 | musique | don't invalidate the list |
| 01:41.40 | musique | notify data changed |
| 01:41.47 | jasta | won't that cause every row to redraw? |
| 01:42.03 | jasta | that's what i meant by invalidate the list: have every row on screen redraw. |
| 01:42.14 | cbeust | It will only cause a rebind, if you're careful in this rebind, the graphic update will be minimal |
| 01:42.27 | musique | yes make sure your bind is efficient and you should be fine |
| 01:42.35 | jasta | how can i be careful in the rebind? |
| 01:42.37 | musique | views are re-used in list view |
| 01:42.44 | cbeust | only update the views impacted by the transient change |
| 01:42.47 | musique | just don't do slow stuff like lookup an image in a content provider etc... |
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| 01:44.20 | jasta | cbeust: but won't they all need to rebind? how would i known which rebound views i can ignore? |
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| 01:44.43 | jasta | even if i tracked it myself, this wouldn't work because i'd need to somehow find the difference between the underlying cursor changing and my manual change. |
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| 01:45.00 | romainguy_ | musique: notify data changed << this is actually expensive |
| 01:45.06 | romainguy_ | it causes a full layout |
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| 01:45.34 | chomchom | I don't suppose anyone in here is looking for some contractual android work? |
| 01:45.43 | jasta | i am confident the approach i used throughout five is sloppy and inefficient :) |
| 01:45.49 | *** part/#android steventroughtons (n=steventr@86-43-174-2.b-ras2.prp.dublin.eircom.net) |
| 01:45.50 | chomchom | If anyone is interested please send an email to kevin@novoda.com |
| 01:46.18 | jasta | romainguy_: any suggestions? |
| 01:46.57 | romainguy_ | grab the view and change it? |
| 01:47.25 | jasta | i'm looking for a good generally efficient paradigm for arbitrarily altering particular rows in a list. |
| 01:47.46 | romainguy_ | if you change the underlying data, change the adapter and notifyDatasetChanged |
| 01:47.47 | jasta | romainguy_: how can i grab it? |
| 01:47.56 | romainguy_ | if you just change the UI representation of the data, just grab the view |
| 01:48.09 | romainguy_ | ListView.getView(positionOfItem - ListView.getFirstVisiblePosition()) |
| 01:48.44 | jasta | ok, do you suppose it makes sense to do both to protect this data from vanishing during scrolls/view recycling? |
| 01:49.09 | jasta | by both i mean to grab the view and make the update immediately, but also mark some flag that this row has some special state data so that the binder will also keep that state in tact. |
| 01:49.31 | romainguy_ | sure |
| 01:49.45 | romainguy_ | as long as you don't change the number of items in the list |
| 01:50.01 | romainguy_ | note that most of the time a notifyDatasetChanged is efficient enough |
| 01:50.05 | jasta | well if its backed by a cursor i can just key uniquely with the data set |
| 01:50.21 | romainguy_ | if you don't do it frequently (every XX milliseconds) |
| 01:51.52 | romainguy_ | that's assuming your adapter reuses the convertView |
| 01:52.03 | jasta | romainguy_: your one-liner above, ListView doesn't have a getView method? getChildAt? |
| 01:52.12 | romainguy_ | ah yes sorry |
| 01:52.15 | romainguy_ | getChildAt() |
| 01:52.20 | romainguy_ | < tired |
| 01:53.06 | jasta | why would you subtract getFristVisiblePosition? |
| 01:53.40 | romainguy_ | to convert the adapter position into a view index |
| 01:54.05 | jasta | hang on, i gotta digest how this will come together :) |
| 01:54.18 | romainguy_ | what exactly are you trying to update on screen? |
| 01:54.30 | romainguy_ | because it might be enough to do a notifyDatasetChanged |
| 01:54.37 | jasta | in this case, i have a list of service sources and i'm updating their progress as they do stuff. |
| 01:54.57 | jasta | but in general, i would like a better general strategy for this type of arbitrary manipulation that is both clean and efficient. ia m searching mostly for that :) |
| 01:54.58 | romainguy_ | ok so don't notifyDatasetChanged :) |
| 01:55.13 | romainguy_ | but in the general case, for infrequent updates, use notifyDatasetChanged |
| 01:55.22 | romainguy_ | there's one easy optimizations with this |
| 01:55.30 | romainguy_ | if you don't add/remove an item |
| 01:55.37 | romainguy_ | and if the updated item(s) are not visible on screen |
| 01:55.45 | romainguy_ | then don't call notifyDatasetChanged at all |
| 01:56.07 | romainguy_ | the range of visible items is obtained with getFirstVisiblePosition() .. getFirstVisiblePosition() + getChildCount() |
| 01:56.32 | jasta | how do i get the adapter position for your original one-liner? |
| 01:56.43 | jasta | i merely have the CursorAdapter's row id. |
| 01:56.57 | romainguy_ | that is your problem :) |
| 01:56.59 | jasta | would i just maintain a map myself? |
| 01:57.42 | jasta | extend the adapter or the view binder and just track what views i'm handing out for which rows? |
| 01:57.53 | romainguy_ | no, don't do that because they are recycled |
| 01:58.15 | romainguy_ | can't you just keep the position of your items somewhere? |
| 01:59.00 | jasta | well, most of the data i work with is backed by a cursor, so it wouldn't be a good idea to lock the data set in i wouldn' tthink. also, that fails to be a general solution as i'm looking for :) |
| 01:59.35 | jasta | couldn't i pay special attention to the recycling possibility? if i hand out a view that was already marked by another row id, remove it from my mapping |
| 02:00.00 | romainguy_ | you do whatever you want but I strongly advise against this |
| 02:00.00 | jasta | that would also allow me to track what isn't on screen for a very fast opt. |
| 02:00.26 | romainguy_ | the recycling thing can be quite surprising |
| 02:00.38 | jasta | romainguy_: i don't understand why? shouldn't it be simple? i have a map of row id to view, but i also mark the views with the row id they last had mapped. when i get a view, i check if it's been marked by another row id and remove it from the map first. |
| 02:00.43 | jasta | ? |
| 02:02.14 | romainguy_ | because we don't guarantee that we will have only one view for one row id |
| 02:02.45 | romainguy_ | it would theoretically possible for the recycler to have two views that were bound to the same row id |
| 02:03.17 | jasta | hmm, that certainly would be problematic. |
| 02:03.56 | romainguy_ | that's why we usually base as much as we can on positions |
| 02:04.36 | jasta | but the problem here is that since my data is mostly backed by cursors, i would have to iterate through the entire cursor to build a map once on init, and any time the cursor changed |
| 02:04.42 | jasta | in order to get a mapping of id to position. |
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| 02:11.05 | jasta | wait, i feel like i'm being silly here. the number of items on screen at any given time should be pretty small. couldn't i just search the listviews children and then just store that View until such time as the viewbinder updates for any reason? this would probably be the least overhead of all strategies |
| 02:12.27 | jasta | that is, on each progress update check a mapping of id => View for the row view that corresponds. If it fails, search for it then set it in the map. Meanwhile, if the ViewBinder is asked to bind a new View for any reason, clear the map I was using. |
| 02:13.04 | jasta | that way if the user scrolls during progress updates they're gonna take a hit (but a constant hit) in performance, but when they stop the performance will go back up. |
| 02:13.09 | jasta | as it can just do map lookups |
| 02:13.31 | jasta | any gotchas with this approach? |
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| 02:43.34 | ttuttle | -> sleep. |
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| 04:18.06 | romainguy | re |
| 04:26.08 | meoblast001 | romainguy: google should make a game console |
| 04:26.11 | meoblast001 | it might actually be good |
| 04:26.15 | meoblast001 | i gave up on sony |
| 04:26.18 | romainguy | lol |
| 04:26.24 | romainguy | I actually like my PS3 more and more |
| 04:26.27 | romainguy | more than my xbox 360 |
| 04:26.51 | meoblast001 | well... it cant even play GBA games at top speed |
| 04:26.55 | meoblast001 | in PS3 Linux |
| 04:26.58 | romainguy | GBA? |
| 04:26.59 | romainguy | er |
| 04:27.03 | meoblast001 | game boy advance |
| 04:27.06 | romainguy | the PS3 wasn't really meant to do this |
| 04:27.10 | romainguy | yes I know what the GBA is |
| 04:27.15 | meoblast001 | and they destroyed backwards compatibility |
| 04:27.17 | romainguy | (I worked as a GBA game developer :)) |
| 04:27.26 | romainguy | backward compatibility is fine on my PS3 |
| 04:27.37 | meoblast001 | i have an 80 gig original |
| 04:27.44 | meoblast001 | doesnt play the old games that i like |
| 04:27.47 | romainguy | ah the 80 GB |
| 04:27.57 | meoblast001 | sony's poor marketting does that |
| 04:28.04 | meoblast001 | and yes it was intended to play GBA games |
| 04:28.05 | meoblast001 | "It was fully intended that you, a PS3 owner, could play games, watch movies, view photos, listen to music, and run a full-featured Linux operating system that transforms your PS3 into a home computer." |
| 04:28.18 | meoblast001 | my home computer plays GBA games |
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| 04:28.31 | romainguy | that's not quite Sony's fault I'm sure |
| 04:28.33 | meoblast001 | plays them perfectly fine... at 100% framerate 95% of the time |
| 04:28.37 | meoblast001 | yes it is |
| 04:28.39 | romainguy | the Cell is quite different from regular CPUs |
| 04:28.45 | meoblast001 | they place PS3 linux under a hypervisor |
| 04:28.48 | meoblast001 | why? |
| 04:28.55 | romainguy | because it's a freakin' game console |
| 04:29.00 | meoblast001 | to make piracy impossible |
| 04:29.10 | meoblast001 | but the PS3 linux is basically a piece of crap |
| 04:29.12 | romainguy | can't blame them for that |
| 04:29.17 | meoblast001 | cant do anything other than high level math operations |
| 04:29.32 | romainguy | as a console, movie/photo/music player, I find the PS3 great |
| 04:29.38 | romainguy | I don't give a shit about running Linux on it |
| 04:29.42 | romainguy | I have computers for that :) |
| 04:30.02 | meoblast001 | well... everytime i have a good idea for my ps3.... it cant do it... every time i want to play a good game on my ps3.. it cant do it |
| 04:30.08 | meoblast001 | ps2 games were great |
| 04:30.11 | meoblast001 | a few ps3 games are good |
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| 04:30.51 | meoblast001 | Google should get into more markets... i actually voted a few years ago that google would come out on top that year because they were doing a lot of stuff |
| 04:30.59 | meoblast001 | on top of all other companies for that year |
| 04:31.12 | romainguy | because Android is not going into more markets? :) |
| 04:31.40 | meoblast001 | it is |
| 04:31.44 | meoblast001 | but i think there are a lot more |
| 04:31.52 | meoblast001 | Google Linux would be awesome =P |
| 04:32.06 | michaelnovakjr | Linux is Linux |
| 04:32.19 | meoblast001 | true.... but a Google distrubution |
| 04:32.32 | michaelnovakjr | i'm not sure that is worth the time |
| 04:32.51 | romainguy | I don't quite see what we could really add |
| 04:33.20 | michaelnovakjr | yea, there are plenty of distros that are excellent |
| 04:34.03 | meoblast001 | yeah |
| 04:34.04 | meoblast001 | i guess |
| 04:35.04 | michaelnovakjr | i think Google should focus on Android for the time being :) |
| 04:36.08 | meoblast001 | yeah |
| 04:36.13 | meoblast001 | android is scaring me |
| 04:36.30 | meoblast001 | i keep getting affraid something is going to happen and the project will be dropped |
| 04:36.33 | meoblast001 | or delayed |
| 04:36.47 | meoblast001 | wait... i forgot... google isnt sony. they dont delay things |
| 04:37.22 | michaelnovakjr | ? |
| 04:38.11 | yakischloba | god damnit |
| 04:38.17 | meoblast001 | what |
| 04:38.33 | meoblast001 | michaelnovakjr: go look up "Sony Home Delay" on google |
| 04:38.37 | romainguy | meoblast001: why would we drop or delay the project? |
| 04:38.43 | meoblast001 | idk |
| 04:38.47 | meoblast001 | i heard stuff on the internet |
| 04:38.51 | michaelnovakjr | romainguy: i believe its jibberish |
| 04:38.51 | meoblast001 | saying the project is like |
| 04:38.58 | meoblast001 | slowing |
| 04:38.59 | romainguy | ah |
| 04:39.07 | romainguy | you "heard stuff on the internet" |
| 04:39.09 | romainguy | must be true then :)) |
| 04:39.12 | michaelnovakjr | romainguy: did he get the memo about the new SDK :) |
| 04:39.29 | romainguy | I have yet to read one article about android that gets the facts right :)) |
| 04:39.43 | romainguy | even articles about the new SDK contain mistakes, errors or forget stuff |
| 04:39.44 | michaelnovakjr | romainguy: its all these stupid fanboy sites :) |
| 04:39.57 | meoblast001 | lol] |
| 04:40.02 | meoblast001 | i want a gphone |
| 04:40.06 | meoblast001 | i hope its not expensive |
| 04:40.19 | michaelnovakjr | we need an organization on internet journalism ..... we need to publicly ban this terrible sites |
| 04:40.45 | romainguy | the problem with the web is that anyone can pretend to be a "journalist" |
| 04:40.48 | michaelnovakjr | meoblast001: it looks like the first device is going to be a high end device |
| 04:40.51 | romainguy | the quality is WAAAYY low |
| 04:40.55 | michaelnovakjr | romainguy: yes that is the problem |
| 04:40.55 | meoblast001 | high end? |
| 04:41.00 | meoblast001 | expensive? |
| 04:41.18 | michaelnovakjr | romainguy: if you can follow the wordpress instructions well then you can be a "journalist" |
| 04:42.01 | meoblast001 | oooo |
| 04:42.03 | yakischloba | romainguy: The problem isn't that anyone can do it, its that the dumb eat it up. |
| 04:42.03 | meoblast001 | i can do that |
| 04:42.06 | meoblast001 | i have wordpress |
| 04:42.09 | meoblast001 | its easy to install and use |
| 04:42.18 | michaelnovakjr | yakischloba: that too :) |
| 04:42.29 | yakischloba | that 100% i think |
| 04:42.38 | meoblast001 | who wants me to make a wordpress? |
| 04:42.51 | michaelnovakjr | http://www.helloandroid.com/node/602 <<< perfect example |
| 04:42.53 | yakischloba | honestly everything I read on those bullshit sites I figure half of it is nonsense |
| 04:43.27 | yakischloba | its easy to tell whos out there for hits and attention |
| 04:43.33 | michaelnovakjr | definitel |
| 04:43.41 | yakischloba | which is most people |
| 04:43.48 | meoblast001 | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Google_Android#T-Mobile_Smartphone |
| 04:43.54 | michaelnovakjr | i'm going to record a blurry video of my win mobile phone and call it the unreleased Android UI |
| 04:44.15 | yakischloba | anyone who does 'journalism' on flakey things like tech are just attention whores |
| 04:44.20 | michaelnovakjr | as confirmed by my close sources... the Android UI Engineers :) |
| 04:44.20 | muthu | if only google can have an official blog and they can update news regularly |
| 04:44.32 | michaelnovakjr | uh muthu they do :) |
| 04:44.41 | muthu | yeah but they don't update |
| 04:44.45 | muthu | hence the rumors |
| 04:44.46 | michaelnovakjr | http://code.google.com/android |
| 04:44.47 | meoblast001 | type 735 if you work for google |
| 04:44.54 | michaelnovakjr | 736 |
| 04:45.03 | yakischloba | as far as tech stuff, I'll believe it when I see it. |
| 04:45.10 | michaelnovakjr | yakischloba: exactly |
| 04:45.10 | muthu | 7three5 |
| 04:45.15 | yakischloba | meoblast001: enough of that |
| 04:45.21 | meoblast001 | =( |
| 04:45.26 | meoblast001 | i was just curious |
| 04:45.33 | meoblast001 | so i took the AOL user's approach |
| 04:45.36 | swetland | these blurry videos are great. I think I saw bigfoot |
| 04:45.49 | yakischloba | meoblast001: mature grownups shouldn't do things like that. |
| 04:45.49 | michaelnovakjr | swetland: yea, he's an Android fan |
| 04:45.59 | swetland | ! |
| 04:46.05 | michaelnovakjr | swetland: i hear he's part of the "test" team |
| 04:46.07 | meoblast001 | since when is 15 mature grownups xD |
| 04:46.08 | meoblast001 | j/k |
| 04:46.12 | meoblast001 | i try to be mature |
| 04:46.15 | yakischloba | well work harder. |
| 04:46.17 | meoblast001 | and grownup'd |
| 04:47.33 | meoblast001 | what is LiMo and why should i not like it? |
| 04:47.37 | michaelnovakjr | i find the fanboy sites extremely annoying |
| 04:47.47 | michaelnovakjr | meoblast001: www.google.com |
| 04:48.00 | meoblast001 | yay |
| 04:48.02 | meoblast001 | new picture |
| 04:48.13 | michaelnovakjr | hence why androidnerds.com is going to be a tutorial site! |
| 04:48.17 | yakischloba | unfortunately the suckers of the world now have cultivated interest in higher level things like mobile development, and are happy to propagate anything that is fed to them |
| 04:48.30 | yakischloba | michaelnovakjr: woo hoo! no speculation on there please! :) |
| 04:48.43 | michaelnovakjr | yakischloba: speculators will be shot at the door ;) |
| 04:48.50 | yakischloba | michaelnovakjr: excellent. |
| 04:49.10 | meoblast001 | if you want the facts, come here |
| 04:49.11 | meoblast001 | lol |
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| 04:49.20 | michaelnovakjr | meoblast001: that's a bit far from the truth :) |
| 04:49.21 | meoblast001 | and ask romainguy |
| 04:49.28 | meoblast001 | i know |
| 04:49.30 | meoblast001 | it was a joke |
| 04:49.37 | meoblast001 | you guys arent allowed to tell us |
| 04:49.38 | michaelnovakjr | the irc has its fair share of speculation spewing |
| 04:49.54 | meoblast001 | is this the official IRC? |
| 04:49.55 | yakischloba | meoblast001: I too, didn't know anything when I came in here, and I sat around and read what other people said for months. You might be better off to do the same. |
| 04:49.58 | meoblast001 | is there an irc.google.com? |
| 04:50.05 | f00f- | no |
| 04:50.15 | michaelnovakjr | meoblast001: think about that |
| 04:50.16 | umdk1d4 | meoblast001: this is as "official" as it gets |
| 04:50.22 | f00f- | yeah we noticed a lot of lurkers in here for months |
| 04:50.27 | michaelnovakjr | if there was an irc.google.com why would we be on freenode? |
| 04:50.30 | f00f- | we thought you guys were stealing ideas |
| 04:50.36 | jasta | *yawn* |
| 04:50.39 | f00f- | but you were just newbin' :) |
| 04:50.41 | meoblast001 | hi jasta |
| 04:50.45 | michaelnovakjr | f00f-: don't be fooled.... some were/are |
| 04:50.47 | yakischloba | There he is. the yawner. |
| 04:50.56 | umdk1d4 | idling isnt a crime :P |
| 04:51.05 | meoblast001 | GoogleBot doesnt like me |
| 04:51.05 | f00f- | it should be :D |
| 04:51.06 | yakischloba | Being annoying is |
| 04:51.13 | michaelnovakjr | haha |
| 04:51.14 | meoblast001 | it crawls at all the wrong times |
| 04:51.44 | michaelnovakjr | jasta, what's new.... dig into the new sdk at all? |
| 04:51.59 | meoblast001 | never do qqqqq then I'm feeling lucky |
| 04:52.13 | jasta | michaelnovakjr: oh yes, lots. |
| 04:52.15 | f00f- | does it |
| 04:52.25 | meoblast001 | f00f-: your eyes will bleed |
| 04:52.27 | michaelnovakjr | jasta, good bad or indifferent? |
| 04:52.28 | jasta | michaelnovakjr: five builds on it, i'm revising a lot of it now too |
| 04:52.35 | michaelnovakjr | sweet |
| 04:52.45 | meoblast001 | that hack really needs to be fixed |
| 04:52.47 | f00f- | oh my |
| 04:52.47 | jasta | michaelnovakjr: well, i don't know. there's a lot of stuff in here for me. but there is still that lame MediaPlayer problem so it's not all sunshine and rainbows |
| 04:52.51 | meoblast001 | someone google bombed that site |
| 04:52.57 | meoblast001 | with the title being qqqqq |
| 04:53.04 | meoblast001 | and well..... its now top on the list |
| 04:53.07 | f00f- | ctrl-w to the rescue |
| 04:53.13 | meoblast001 | ctrl-w? |
| 04:53.14 | jasta | michaelnovakjr: i'm mostly enjoying just revisiting some of Five's poor programming now |
| 04:53.16 | michaelnovakjr | meoblast001: what the hell are you talkoing about? |
| 04:53.18 | yakischloba | I've heard so much good vibe out of jasta all day that I'm actually going to resume working on my app. |
| 04:53.33 | michaelnovakjr | jasta, that's good... i still figuring out what to work on :) |
| 04:53.34 | jasta | you guys, i never _wanted_ to hate Android. |
| 04:53.38 | meoblast001 | micaelnovakjr: nothing.. just pranksters who take advantage of googlebot to make ppl's eyes blee |
| 04:53.38 | meoblast001 | d |
| 04:53.55 | michaelnovakjr | jasta, most of my android-random contributions aren't needed anymore :) |
| 04:53.55 | yakischloba | I thought alex2308 was bad *sigh* |
| 04:54.04 | f00f- | jasta why dont you fix android? |
| 04:54.07 | jasta | michaelnovakjr: you knew that would happen :) |
| 04:54.11 | michaelnovakjr | totally |
| 04:54.17 | f00f- | i think google needs to hire a handful of OSS experts |
| 04:54.19 | f00f- | on contract |
| 04:54.20 | jasta | f00f-: because it's closed source. i promise you, once i can access it, i will. |
| 04:54.21 | f00f- | to fix all the shit |
| 04:54.23 | f00f- | implement all the code |
| 04:54.45 | meoblast001 | when does it go os? |
| 04:54.50 | michaelnovakjr | f00f-: that bug list "should" shrink when the source is opened |
| 04:55.14 | jasta | anyway, back to revising stuffs ;) |
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| 04:55.43 | yakischloba | this release has drawn so many people...too busy for me, I feel like every time I go to take a pee I'm missing something |
| 04:55.52 | f00f- | you bet |
| 04:55.59 | michaelnovakjr | yakischloba: its mostly nonsense :) |
| 04:56.04 | *** join/#android tric (n=triciche@wipux1.wifo.uni-mannheim.de) |
| 04:56.20 | yakischloba | michaelnovakjr: ahh ok. I'll disregard then ;) |
| 04:56.45 | michaelnovakjr | yakischloba: i was hoping more people would be back programming and asking questions and discussing the new sdk :) |
| 04:57.13 | yakischloba | michaelnovakjr: well that was my dismay..seems like mostly new people and retarded questions often unrelated to the SDK itself |
| 04:57.20 | michaelnovakjr | yea |
| 04:58.03 | meoblast001 | why isnt google going to make hardware? just curious |
| 04:58.15 | michaelnovakjr | meoblast001: because they don't have to |
| 04:58.21 | meoblast001 | ok |
| 04:58.24 | f00f- | it's not their expertise |
| 04:58.33 | yakischloba | Is google in the hardware business anywhere? |
| 04:58.38 | meoblast001 | no |
| 04:58.43 | michaelnovakjr | yakischloba: yes |
| 04:58.43 | f00f- | all they make are some servers |
| 04:58.45 | f00f- | but they dont make them |
| 04:58.49 | michaelnovakjr | they have google minis |
| 04:58.52 | meoblast001 | i bet Apple would sell products better if they didnt try to hold customers by the bals |
| 04:58.53 | yakischloba | Oh. the "google app server" or whatever |
| 04:58.56 | f00f- | they just put the software on them |
| 04:59.00 | michaelnovakjr | f00f-: they are branded :_ |
| 04:59.05 | yakischloba | that isn't really hardware development |
| 04:59.21 | michaelnovakjr | f00f-: we have two at work.... blue servers with the big G |
| 04:59.37 | michaelnovakjr | yakischloba: not really..... but their ghost support team is who you contact :) |
| 04:59.48 | f00f- | they worth it michael? |
| 04:59.53 | yakischloba | michaelnovakjr: heh |
| 05:00.27 | michaelnovakjr | f00f-: they are nice... the search feature for the site is awesome.... we had hardware issues and it was a pain in the ass dealing with support.... but other than that pretty good :) |
| 05:00.42 | f00f- | ah, i dont have a need to search anything |
| 05:00.47 | f00f- | good for intranets i bet |
| 05:00.57 | yakischloba | just google searching for internal documents, correct? |
| 05:00.58 | f00f- | when htdig, mnogosearch, aspsearch wont cut it |
| 05:01.09 | michaelnovakjr | f00f-: we used it to crawl our sites.... good customization |
| 05:01.21 | f00f- | do you get the same < 0.10 sec response times? |
| 05:01.29 | michaelnovakjr | f00f-: its fast |
| 05:02.43 | meoblast001 | is googlebot opensource? |
| 05:02.48 | meoblast001 | lol |
| 05:03.00 | meoblast001 | if so, i want a copy |
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| 05:03.06 | michaelnovakjr | i am going to regard that as rhetorical |
| 05:03.22 | yakischloba | spare us.. |
| 05:03.31 | f00f- | you didnt get yahoo_engn.zip when it was up? |
| 05:03.33 | f00f- | few hundred megs |
| 05:03.46 | meoblast001 | is it still up? |
| 05:04.00 | michaelnovakjr | yea... www.google.com/shit-we-stole-and-returned |
| 05:04.08 | f00f- | hahaha |
| 05:04.35 | *** join/#android romainguy__ (n=gfx@72.14.224.1) |
| 05:04.37 | meoblast001 | lol |
| 05:04.39 | michaelnovakjr | half of it had Microsoft comment blocks at the top of files |
| 05:04.52 | meoblast001 | googlebot did? |
| 05:05.30 | f00f- | well googlebot is essentially a glorified wget -r |
| 05:06.39 | meoblast001 | f00f-: explain this... wget -r |
| 05:06.42 | meoblast001 | i has a wget |
| 05:06.47 | meoblast001 | but i never used the wget -r |
| 05:07.01 | yakischloba | oh for fucks sake |
| 05:07.07 | meoblast001 | im sorry |
| 05:07.14 | michaelnovakjr | meoblast001: http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=wget |
| 05:07.15 | f00f- | meoblast001: download the entire internet, start with: wget -r http://www.google.com/ |
| 05:07.33 | meoblast001 | awesome |
| 05:07.35 | yakischloba | I hope someone else gets impatient before me so I don't make an as of myself. |
| 05:07.44 | michaelnovakjr | yakischloba: i will :) |
| 05:08.05 | yakischloba | michaelnovakjr: Maybe you would have by now if you hadn't been absent ;) |
| 05:08.23 | michaelnovakjr | yakischloba: definitely :) |
| 05:08.32 | michaelnovakjr | but then again i was absent for a reason :) |
| 05:08.39 | yakischloba | heh |
| 05:08.39 | meoblast001 | f00f-: im working on it |
| 05:08.43 | meoblast001 | made a file on my desktop |
| 05:08.46 | meoblast001 | i mean |
| 05:08.47 | meoblast001 | a folder |
| 05:08.56 | meoblast001 | theentireinternet/ |
| 05:09.02 | f00f- | good luck. |
| 05:09.25 | michaelnovakjr | you should sign off IRC until you're done... you don't want to slow it down or anything |
| 05:09.30 | meoblast001 | how long will it take? |
| 05:09.37 | yakischloba | years or decades |
| 05:09.45 | meoblast001 | how does google do it in days then? |
| 05:09.48 | michaelnovakjr | meoblast001: count 2^n until you get to the last number |
| 05:10.13 | meoblast001 | ? |
| 05:10.29 | meoblast001 | how many T3 lines does google have? |
| 05:10.36 | yakischloba | a gazillion |
| 05:11.04 | michaelnovakjr | meoblast001: what kind of question is that |
| 05:11.13 | meoblast001 | oh yeah |
| 05:11.16 | meoblast001 | im pushing 2 websites |
| 05:11.21 | meoblast001 | www.google.com |
| 05:11.24 | meoblast001 | scholar.google.com |
| 05:11.30 | michaelnovakjr | meoblast001: for someone who claimed to be a part of the ubuntu project you sure sound like a moron |
| 05:11.51 | jasta | wrestles with Subclipse on Eclipse 3.4 |
| 05:11.52 | jasta | ugh |
| 05:11.59 | *** join/#android trivex (n=trivex@CPE00112f8785ab-CM000f9f50281e.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) |
| 05:12.07 | yakischloba | is 3.4 required for the new plugin?.. |
| 05:12.10 | michaelnovakjr | jasta, i'm assuming that is the svn plugin |
| 05:12.22 | jasta | yakischloba: 3.3+ is. i had 3.2 from debian so i upg'd to 3.4 |
| 05:12.36 | muthu | anyone know eclipse 3.4 wget link? |
| 05:12.52 | meoblast001 | my sister told me it wont all fit |
| 05:12.55 | yakischloba | hmm. I think I may have grabbed 3.3 already in the process of my Ubuntu troubles. |
| 05:13.03 | meoblast001 | i was like "dang it.. i forgot.. only 60 gigs" |
| 05:13.08 | meoblast001 | how many gigs does google have? |
| 05:13.10 | michaelnovakjr | its getting old dude |
| 05:13.24 | muthu | jasta: did you use wget for eclipse 3.4 download? |
| 05:13.31 | yakischloba | hahahaha |
| 05:13.34 | michaelnovakjr | haha |
| 05:14.08 | f00f- | hahahaha |
| 05:14.12 | yakischloba | ah man its pouring. what fun it will be riding into work in the morning. |
| 05:14.22 | f00f- | on your tricycle? |
| 05:14.33 | yakischloba | s/tri/bi |
| 05:14.39 | meoblast001 | i have the whole google main site downloaded |
| 05:14.58 | meoblast001 | does it download alphabetically? |
| 05:15.00 | michaelnovakjr | i don't know about anyone else but i'm blocking him :) |
| 05:15.07 | yakischloba | michaelnovakjr: amen |
| 05:15.15 | meoblast001 | yay..... i feel special |
| 05:15.30 | muthu | wget http://ftp.osuosl.org/pub/eclipse/technology/epp/downloads/release/ganymede/R/eclipse-java-ganymede-linux-gtk.tar.gz |
| 05:15.36 | muthu | that looks like it |
| 05:15.47 | michaelnovakjr | muthu i bet eclipse.org has it too |
| 05:15.52 | michaelnovakjr | and you can click on it :) |
| 05:15.53 | yakischloba | no way |
| 05:15.56 | yakischloba | wget only |
| 05:16.12 | yakischloba | i think you have to use a recursive download from the subdirectory actually |
| 05:16.16 | michaelnovakjr | yakischloba: i could download it for all 78 people in here before he figures out wget :) |
| 05:16.18 | f00f- | muthu have you ported to 0.9 yet? |
| 05:16.24 | muthu | yeah |
| 05:16.29 | muthu | 0.9 done |
| 05:16.30 | yakischloba | michaelnovakjr: :) |
| 05:16.47 | yakischloba | did ADC guys have 0.9 access before the public did? |
| 05:17.03 | muthu | f00f-: now i'm working on a big plan |
| 05:17.18 | michaelnovakjr | muthu: martha stewart integration? |
| 05:17.23 | muthu | haha |
| 05:17.33 | yakischloba | hah |
| 05:17.35 | michaelnovakjr | you'd need an ankle bracelet |
| 05:17.45 | yakischloba | michaelnovakjr: hey now.. |
| 05:17.46 | muthu | yakischloba: we didn't have 0.9 |
| 05:17.47 | michaelnovakjr | and don't give her any stock :) |
| 05:18.00 | muthu | hehe |
| 05:18.49 | meoblast001 | i get the feeling im going to live a very unsucessful life |
| 05:19.00 | michaelnovakjr | yea me too |
| 05:19.16 | muthu | jasta: The problem with subclipse on 3.4 is that âSubclipse 1.4.x requires Subversion 1.5.0 version of JavaHL/SVNKitâ |
| 05:19.52 | f00f- | yeah |
| 05:19.57 | f00f- | there is an alternative buddy |
| 05:20.00 | f00f- | not subclipse |
| 05:20.02 | f00f- | it's somtehing else |
| 05:20.08 | f00f- | the non-free one |
| 05:20.11 | f00f- | it's linked from eclipse.org |
| 05:20.20 | f00f- | subversive |
| 05:20.20 | meoblast001 | scholar.google.com is a big site |
| 05:20.20 | f00f- | yep |
| 05:20.21 | f00f- | that's it |
| 05:20.46 | umdk1d4 | realizes i havent eaten today due to sdk |
| 05:21.07 | f00f- | nice |
| 05:21.10 | f00f- | where u at |
| 05:21.23 | umdk1d4 | got app ported easily |
| 05:21.27 | michaelnovakjr | meoblast001: you officially are annoying the shit out of me.... go away!!! |
| 05:21.29 | umdk1d4 | now im working on other fun stuff ;) |
| 05:21.35 | yakischloba | michaelnovakjr: i ignored |
| 05:21.38 | michaelnovakjr | meoblast001: you are officially blocked |
| 05:21.52 | meoblast001 | =( |
| 05:22.06 | meoblast001 | i've been hearing that since the 2nd grade |
| 05:23.27 | michaelnovakjr | yakischloba: i just ignored him |
| 05:23.37 | michaelnovakjr | pidgin doesn't like the ignore command |
| 05:23.46 | yakischloba | michaelnovakjr: yeah my peace of mind increased by 300% after I did it. |
| 05:23.50 | michaelnovakjr | but apparently right click on the name works :) |
| 05:24.27 | meoblast001 | i feel like everyone here hates me |
| 05:24.31 | michaelnovakjr | yakischloba: writing an app with 0.9? |
| 05:25.26 | umdk1d4 | okay so some speculation |
| 05:25.32 | michaelnovakjr | no |
| 05:25.40 | michaelnovakjr | stop with the speculation |
| 05:25.41 | umdk1d4 | i wonder if they dumbed-down the included apps |
| 05:25.54 | michaelnovakjr | please it just came out |
| 05:25.54 | muthu | which one? |
| 05:25.57 | umdk1d4 | and are still holding back some wow-factor stuff |
| 05:26.02 | yakischloba | michaelnovakjr: no, no, not yet. I had started on my app with m5 but I stopped working on it a couple weeks ago due to a combination of things. Mostly busy with getting my new job and suspicion that the next release was going to suck. |
| 05:26.21 | michaelnovakjr | :) yakischloba i hear you |
| 05:26.31 | umdk1d4 | we still dont have a youtube player, or email (other than in browser) |
| 05:26.40 | umdk1d4 | interestingly google gears is integrated into the browser |
| 05:26.54 | michaelnovakjr | it will come..... for now i'd just work on an app :) |
| 05:27.30 | muthu | umdk1d4: the wow factor might come from tmo apps |
| 05:27.47 | yakischloba | michaelnovakjr: I think I'm going to pick up on it again now, but I doubt I'll have it ready for handset release. I won't have as much time as I did before. Really I don't care though. It'd be awesome if my first app was popular someday but really I'm writing it for my own use and as a learning experience. |
| 05:28.15 | michaelnovakjr | yakischloba: that is the way to go :) |
| 05:28.33 | michaelnovakjr | its always good when you find your app useful! |
| 05:28.55 | michaelnovakjr | plus i find the overall mood of developing is better that way :) |
| 05:29.13 | yakischloba | heh. thats the only reason I'm writing it. I lurked around for months, not starting to learn anything because I didn't know what my app was going to be |
| 05:29.26 | yakischloba | then I figured it out and yeah I have a blast when I'm writing it |
| 05:29.27 | romainguy | umdk1d4: interestingly google gears is integrated into the browser << it can even create shortcuts to Gears apps on the desktop |
| 05:29.51 | yakischloba | I really enjoy imagining how I will use it when its don |
| 05:29.55 | michaelnovakjr | you'd figure in all the speculation that was picked up :) |
| 05:29.58 | meoblast001 | i wish i had the power to make ppl suffer |
| 05:30.03 | meoblast001 | watching ppl suffer makes me happy |
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| 05:30.46 | meoblast001 | hi Rajec |
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| 05:31.37 | yakischloba | I'm sure other people will find it plenty useful too. I just have to do it right. |
| 05:31.46 | Rajec | guys what you think about popularity of android? Whats the real market potencional? I think it is just next windows mobile and it will have hard time againts iphone. |
| 05:32.04 | michaelnovakjr | Rajec: we are developers... not speculators |
| 05:32.16 | *** part/#android meoblast001 (n=meoblast@dynamic-acs-24-239-93-241.zoominternet.net) |
| 05:32.30 | umdk1d4 | romainguy: ooh desktop gears shortcuts =D |
| 05:32.50 | yakischloba | It's on the back-burner for the moment though. Starting my new job and I have to get serious now about winter training for next cycling season. I'm just counting on that either no one will develop my app, or they'll do a half-assed job. |
| 05:32.58 | swetland | I suspect it will be an uphill battle vs the forces of MobileGEOS, AmigaDOS for Phones, and PenWindows |
| 05:33.34 | yakischloba | My money is on PenWindows. I got a leaked build and I loaded it onto my Blue Bic with haret.exe and its pretty sweet. |
| 05:34.24 | f00f- | let me get this straight, you loaded it onto your ballpoing pen? |
| 05:34.44 | romainguy | swetland: I still want BeOS on my Phone |
| 05:35.17 | yakischloba | f00f-: apologies, that sounded like something from meoblast. |
| 05:35.26 | swetland | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pen_Windows is actually the only one of those that was a real os ^^ |
| 05:35.44 | f00f- | nice |
| 05:35.58 | yakischloba | swetland: thats funny, I was certain it was the only one that isn't ;) |
| 05:36.35 | yakischloba | err. It was the only one I was certain that isn't. |
| 05:36.58 | Rajec | michaelnovakjr: it doesn mean you dont have opinion |
| 05:37.44 | michaelnovakjr | Rajec: for me it does :)... i don't speculate... i code |
| 05:38.06 | yakischloba | Rajec: most of what is to come is uncertain still. For developers, Android is great. As far as how it will reach the public/market, no one knows. |
| 05:39.33 | yakischloba | night folks |
| 05:49.35 | michaelnovakjr | romainguy, 1.5 still have better support than 1.6? |
| 05:49.41 | michaelnovakjr | java that is |
| 05:50.23 | romainguy | uh? |
| 05:50.43 | michaelnovakjr | you mentioned about two weeks ago that android worked better with java 1.5 instead of 1.6 |
| 05:50.49 | romainguy | no |
| 05:50.58 | romainguy | I said we don't really test it with Java 1.6 |
| 05:51.14 | michaelnovakjr | cool |
| 05:51.25 | romainguy | it should work though |
| 05:51.30 | romainguy | I know we have a few devs who use it |
| 05:51.53 | michaelnovakjr | yea, i haven't had an issue |
| 06:12.04 | jasta | ohhhhh, very nice. System.out is now connected to the logcat. |
| 06:26.15 | umdk1d4 | ooh? niiiiiice @ system.out |
| 06:26.22 | umdk1d4 | e.printStackTrace() =D |
| 06:26.36 | michaelnovakjr | jasta did you get subclipse working in eclipse? |
| 06:26.40 | jasta | well, you could always do Log.d(TAG, "foo", e); |
| 06:26.43 | jasta | michaelnovakjr: yeah |
| 06:26.54 | michaelnovakjr | using 3.4? |
| 06:27.34 | jasta | yeah |
| 06:27.43 | jasta | just had to restart eclipse or something. i don't know, it's a strange beast. |
| 06:27.56 | michaelnovakjr | cool |
| 06:30.44 | jasta | hmm, i am confused though. my ServiceActivity class never seems to be able to re-use the connection. |
| 06:30.51 | jasta | everytime the activity is destroyed i get: |
| 06:31.06 | jasta | E/ActivityThread( 1809): android.app.ServiceConnectionLeaked: Activity org.devtcg.five.activity.SourceList has leaked ServiceConnection org.devtcg.five.activity.SourceList@43383930 that was originally bound here |
| 06:31.08 | jasta | but for some reason the music player doesn't get that. so they must be doing something different. |
| 06:31.23 | jasta | also, each time the activity starts it up gets a new context, even though the service is still running and the process is the same. |
| 06:32.59 | jasta | but romain you say it keys this connection pool by context. hmm, i must be missing something... |
| 06:33.10 | romainguy | the Music app unbinds the service connection in onDestroy |
| 06:33.49 | jasta | then there must not be an efficiency improvement here like i thought there was. |
| 06:34.09 | jasta | you were saying you thought it was a static reference to the connection because it kept it lingering around until the process died? |
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| 06:36.46 | jasta | that can't be true then. it must just be taht this app waits for the service connection before it calls setContentView. and that's how it achives the illusion of being instantly connected |
| 06:37.07 | jasta | that's pretty disappointing. i thought there was some great trick here to avoid the constant overhead of service connection |
| 06:48.53 | jasta | why shouldn't this be possible, i wonder? |
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| 06:59.40 | umdk1d4 | bah ontouchlistener only response to touch-down, and not again on touch-up |
| 07:00.15 | umdk1d4 | on a linearlayout with focusable and android:focusableInTouchMode both set true |
| 07:01.34 | umdk1d4 | works fine with a imagebutton |
| 07:03.24 | umdk1d4 | AHA! |
| 07:03.42 | umdk1d4 | the linearlayout needs to be android:longClickable="true" so that it processes and fires hovering touch events |
| 07:06.30 | muthu | jasta: Out of memory during array extend at /usr/local/bin/axml2xml.pl line 314, chunk 1. |
| 07:06.48 | jasta | clearly, they changed the format. |
| 07:06.59 | muthu | arghh |
| 07:07.01 | jasta | i mean, i looked into it and came to that conclusion |
| 07:07.01 | jasta | ;) |
| 07:07.11 | jasta | not that it would be obvious from that message hehe |
| 07:07.21 | muthu | haha |
| 07:07.22 | romainguy | jasta: that can't be true then. it must just be taht this app waits for the service connection before it calls setContentView. and that's how it achives the illusion of being instantly connected << no it doesn't wait before setContentView |
| 07:07.38 | jasta | romainguy: some dude from Google was just in here claiming that it does. |
| 07:07.46 | romainguy | was it marcone? |
| 07:07.51 | jasta | yeah |
| 07:08.02 | romainguy | then he knows what he's talking about :)) |
| 07:08.05 | jasta | he said they defer the UI until service connection in some cases |
| 07:08.12 | jasta | (not all, but some) |
| 07:09.24 | jasta | look at the "Now playing" activity |
| 07:09.39 | jasta | when it opens it clearly seems to draw its initial UI different than other activities |
| 07:09.50 | jasta | because it has to draw with that icon indicating which song is playing, which must be coming from a service |
| 07:10.03 | jasta | so it must be waiting for service connection to draw anything at all, right? |
| 07:10.18 | jasta | it probably even gets the playlist itself from the service. so maybe it just fires up an empty list then populates it really fast? |
| 07:11.20 | jasta | same goes for the albums screen it seems |
| 07:11.29 | jasta | and artists and songs :) |
| 07:11.52 | jasta | i don't know how exactly they are deferring the UI (i'd like to know *grin*), but they certainly are. |
| 07:12.30 | jasta | i have been experimenting with calling setContentView after service connection and it does mor eor less seem to accomplish the effect you see in this app (notice how you don't get UI fade-in on some activities in the music player?) |
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| 07:13.31 | romainguy | honestly |
| 07:13.33 | romainguy | on a device |
| 07:13.39 | romainguy | if there's any delay I cannot tell |
| 07:14.03 | muthu | yeah, you call set content view when your UI is ready |
| 07:14.03 | jasta | it's clear that they wrote code different than your typical Hello World to make this work. |
| 07:14.29 | jasta | romainguy: as i said, you can notice that the ui doesn't fade-in on lots of screens. normally, it would. |
| 07:14.42 | alex2308 | hello world |
| 07:15.04 | romainguy | anyway |
| 07:15.12 | romainguy | the order of setContentView/bindService/etc. won't matter |
| 07:15.12 | muthu | jasta: what's hard on in deciding when to call setcontentview? |
| 07:15.12 | jasta | romainguy: i'd like to know specifically what they are doing in some of thoses cases. like the "Now playing" screen. what is the path it takes to layout/draw from onCreate? |
| 07:15.16 | romainguy | it's the UI thread |
| 07:15.25 | romainguy | so anything that block onCreate will "defer" the drawing |
| 07:15.56 | jasta | romainguy: it odesn't block. i mean defer as in it schedules a service connection. when that connection comes, you can then call setContentView. onCreate finished well before that happened. |
| 07:16.05 | romainguy | well |
| 07:16.12 | romainguy | when I looked at the code of the home activity |
| 07:16.16 | romainguy | there was clearly no such thing |
| 07:16.19 | romainguy | the code really was: |
| 07:16.21 | romainguy | setContentView() |
| 07:16.24 | romainguy | bindService() |
| 07:16.30 | romainguy | and that's pretty much it |
| 07:16.46 | jasta | and what service did you bind to? did that service drastically affect the UI? |
| 07:17.20 | romainguy | it just binds to whatever service the media player uses |
| 07:17.27 | jasta | you see what i'm referring to right? when the service connection will change your UI in a way that a sudden stutter in front of the user will be detectable. |
| 07:17.49 | jasta | then you can't just simply setContentView, wait for the connection, then adjust the UI. |
| 07:18.03 | jasta | and it's pretty clear that the Music player included here is not doing that assuming that the gap will be so small it can't be seen. |
| 07:18.15 | jasta | because it clearly is doing initial layout/drawing differently. |
| 07:18.23 | muthu | that depends on UI design |
| 07:18.29 | jasta | just look at the code. you should be able to see that the "Now playing" screen for example is doing something special |
| 07:18.38 | jasta | i'm just asking to know what it is... |
| 07:18.55 | muthu | jasta: where's the code? |
| 07:19.02 | jasta | muthu: we don't have it. |
| 07:19.05 | romainguy | muthu: jasta is just speculating |
| 07:19.10 | muthu | haha |
| 07:19.23 | jasta | i am not, i talked to marcone today |
| 07:19.48 | romainguy | ok |
| 07:19.48 | romainguy | so |
| 07:19.49 | jasta | he confirmed that they do some sort of UI deferral based on the service connection. but i didn't get any details about what they are doing. |
| 07:19.54 | romainguy | first thing the now playing activity does |
| 07:19.57 | romainguy | is setContentView |
| 07:20.10 | umdk1d4 | hugs gestures |
| 07:20.10 | muthu | guess that's the right thing to do |
| 07:20.13 | jasta | but the view is a list. does it start empty until service connection? |
| 07:20.39 | muthu | yeah, then populate the list when you have content |
| 07:21.08 | umdk1d4 | romainguy: thoughts on the easiest way to implement strike-through text? |
| 07:21.11 | jasta | muthu: i think it waits to populate until after the service connection, even though the content would otherwise be available immediately in onCreate. |
| 07:21.32 | jasta | because i think they have intentionally deferred the real UI construction until they have every piece of the puzzle known. and that is why the activity seems to start differently. |
| 07:21.40 | muthu | jasta: yeah, possible |
| 07:22.09 | romainguy | jasta: what do you call the now playing activity? |
| 07:22.19 | jasta | it's title is "Now playing" |
| 07:22.29 | jasta | it's the activity launched when you click the playlist icon in the player window |
| 07:22.42 | romainguy | ah |
| 07:22.46 | romainguy | I was looking at the player window |
| 07:22.51 | umdk1d4 | aha! STRIKE_THRU_TEXT_FLAG |
| 07:22.54 | jasta | it draws a little icon next to the currently playing song, which i assume it gets from a service. |
| 07:23.03 | umdk1d4 | hugs grep |
| 07:23.45 | romainguy | jasta: this activity just binds to the service then calls setContentView |
| 07:23.48 | jasta | but i want to confirm that what is really happening there is that it sets "empty" content (a list maybe, but nothing in it) and waits until service connection to populate. |
| 07:23.56 | romainguy | that's all it does |
| 07:24.03 | romainguy | I guess the bind to service is blocking |
| 07:24.08 | jasta | bind doesn't block |
| 07:24.30 | jasta | what happens in onserviceconnected? anything exciting to do with the UI? |
| 07:24.43 | romainguy | nope nothing |
| 07:24.49 | jasta | if you watch it open, you'll notice that unlike all other normal activities, it doesn't "fade in" |
| 07:24.59 | jasta | it just poofs into existence suddenly. it must be doing something different. |
| 07:25.30 | jasta | romainguy: well where does it populate the list? |
| 07:25.39 | jasta | it should just be a listactivity |
| 07:26.13 | romainguy | just using a cursor |
| 07:26.27 | jasta | in onCreate? |
| 07:26.48 | romainguy | after the bind to service |
| 07:26.50 | umdk1d4 | yay me claps hands @ elegant code title.setPaintFlags(title.getPaintFlags() & ~Paint.STRIKE_THRU_TEXT_FLAG); |
| 07:26.53 | romainguy | and just before the setContent |
| 07:26.53 | jasta | romainguy: a-ha! |
| 07:26.57 | romainguy | it just gets a cursor |
| 07:27.02 | romainguy | and puts it into an adapter |
| 07:27.16 | jasta | oh, you mean after bindService() is called? bindService doesn't block :) |
| 07:27.40 | romainguy | sure |
| 07:27.42 | jasta | unless maybe they are doing something unusual i don't know about? |
| 07:27.42 | romainguy | but that's what it does |
| 07:27.56 | jasta | so how does it decide which entry to put the label on? |
| 07:28.06 | romainguy | I have no idea |
| 07:28.12 | jasta | it affixes a play icon to the next of a listing |
| 07:28.13 | romainguy | and I don't want to read you the entire code :) |
| 07:28.34 | romainguy | but if I remember last time I saw this code, it just queries the service in the adapter's getView |
| 07:28.47 | jasta | whoa, really? |
| 07:29.33 | romainguy | yep |
| 07:30.13 | jasta | that is very bizarre. i cannot guess how they guarantee the service connection to be around at that time. |
| 07:33.56 | muthu | jasta: what's the class name you are looking at? |
| 07:34.10 | jasta | i don't know. it's somewhere in the music player app. |
| 07:35.06 | jasta | i'm just so confused how it is possibly doing this. |
| 07:35.45 | jasta | i'll just ask marcone if i ever see him again i guess. |
| 07:35.59 | muthu | why you confused? |
| 07:36.16 | jasta | muthu: did you follow the conversation? do you know how it is doing this? |
| 07:37.34 | muthu | it looks pretty straightforward, unless i missing something here |
| 07:38.03 | jasta | it is if you think that bindService is either immediate or blocking, which it is neither. |
| 07:41.11 | jasta | muthu: hypothetically, let's say you made the service's onStart block for about a second. You would now have a 1 second delay after onCreate before your service connection finished. if your UI assumed that couldn't happen, it should fail badly. |
| 07:41.42 | muthu | bindservice should be blocking |
| 07:41.51 | jasta | NPE most likely. If not NPE (because you checked for it), then it will just simply miss data that it needed from the service, so it would display wrong for a second. |
| 07:41.57 | jasta | muthu: it most certainly is not and should not be blocking. |
| 07:42.36 | muthu | how can bindservice not be blocking? |
| 07:42.41 | jasta | service connections are threaded. you create a binder thread and start the connection, immediately returning from bindService to your main thread. |
| 07:42.48 | jasta | onServiceConnected() runs in that binder thread. |
| 07:42.52 | jasta | (not your main thread) |
| 07:43.20 | jasta | that is why you have to carefully consider this case as your activity starts. |
| 07:44.07 | muthu | right, that doesn't mean bindservice is not blocking |
| 07:44.11 | jasta | apparently everyone seems to ignore it, but i found if you are quick enough, you can exploit it in practice. |
| 07:44.26 | jasta | muthu: uhm, yes it does. |
| 07:44.43 | jasta | when bindService returns, onServiceConnected very probably was not called yet. |
| 07:45.06 | jasta | it might have been just because the scheduler can do funny things sometimes, but it's much more likely that it wasn't. |
| 07:46.24 | tric | yes, you shouldnt depend on it. its multithreaded, maybe you run on 2 cores |
| 07:46.29 | jasta | it's easy to test this behaviour. just make a service take a really long time to start. |
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| 07:46.46 | jasta | tric: we know that, i'm trying to demonstrate why this race condition has to be handled and not ignored. |
| 07:47.09 | jasta | and also that the built-in Music player with 0.9 does seem to handle it correctly, i just don't know how it handles it. |
| 07:47.22 | jasta | i have other mechanisms for handling it, but i think that it does something different than i do since its UI seems to draw weird. |
| 07:48.29 | muthu | the build in media player waits for the service.. is it? |
| 07:48.45 | jasta | it looks like it. but Romain was basically just saying that he doesn't see that from the code. |
| 07:49.08 | jasta | all i have to go on is the way it seems to behave. Romain obviously has the code, so i'm even more confused now. |
| 07:49.55 | jasta | Five had this race condition in for the release to the judges, and I know for a fact a user could trigger it if they were very fast to click on UI elements before the service connected. |
| 07:50.02 | jasta | you'd have to click like a wild monkey, but you could do it. |
| 07:50.27 | jasta | so i obviously want to find a good solution for this |
| 07:50.33 | muthu | haha |
| 07:50.39 | muthu | why are you enabling the clicks? |
| 07:50.45 | muthu | if the functionality is ready |
| 07:50.46 | jasta | ugh, whatever. i'll get marcone's contact info somehow and just ask him for more information. |
| 07:50.49 | muthu | /not |
| 07:51.03 | jasta | muthu: because i didn't realize that this race was possible initially. i didn't fully understand the problem. |
| 07:51.13 | muthu | ok |
| 07:51.23 | jasta | i do now. it's because service connection is threaded, and completes whenever it feels like it not necessarily before your UI is ready. |
| 07:51.35 | muthu | that's why it returns a boolean |
| 07:51.49 | jasta | that's why i now am revising my code to call setContentView *after* service connection when necessary. but i want to know that this is the "right" way to do it, by using the music player in 0.9 as a guide. |
| 07:52.17 | muthu | better to show a view upfront |
| 07:52.21 | muthu | then update is as required |
| 07:52.35 | muthu | we don't want to be starting at a black screen! |
| 07:52.45 | jasta | yes, you do. |
| 07:52.46 | muthu | /staring |
| 07:53.00 | jasta | it's much better than starting with a UI that if the user clicks on will do nothing. |
| 07:53.18 | muthu | oh i remember |
| 07:53.28 | muthu | five takes like 15 mins to load ;) |
| 07:53.33 | jasta | the delay is very small. |
| 07:53.40 | jasta | what? |
| 07:53.51 | muthu | that was a while back.. |
| 07:54.01 | jasta | Five doesn't take 15 minutes to load, what the hell are you talking about? |
| 07:54.13 | muthu | i mean to sync up with server.. |
| 07:54.31 | jasta | that has nothing to do with the problem we're discussing, muthu. |
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| 07:55.06 | muthu | can you just show a progress dialog or something |
| 07:55.10 | muthu | saying media is loading... |
| 07:55.25 | jasta | there is no need, the delay is so freaking small that the user won't even be able to detect most of the time. |
| 07:55.44 | muthu | no, you can fill that small delay with a progress dialog |
| 07:55.48 | jasta | but it's that you're protecting against the rare times that they CAN and you don't want them clicking around so fast it breaks your app |
| 07:55.54 | cutmasta | mornin |
| 07:56.01 | jasta | muthu: by small, i mean normally a fraction of a second. |
| 07:56.26 | jasta | it would actually add to the delay to run code to make and show a dialog |
| 07:56.47 | jasta | anyway, nevermind. i will just get marcone's contact info |
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| 08:38.23 | anno^da_ | lol I like the picture that is taken by the emulator camera :D |
| 08:38.27 | anno^da_ | whose that :D |
| 08:39.59 | jasta | ? |
| 08:40.49 | jasta | how do you take a photo? |
| 08:41.53 | anno^da_ | ah well I'm just using the Camera API |
| 08:42.19 | anno^da_ | and you get a byte stream with the photo date back. |
| 08:42.28 | jasta | oh |
| 08:42.32 | anno^da_ | This byte stream is something emulated :> |
| 08:43.02 | anno^da_ | it is the jpeg stream lets see what they have in the raw data stream :D |
| 08:43.40 | alex2308 | i bet its porn |
| 08:43.47 | alex2308 | *hope |
| 08:43.50 | jasta | i like the way the UI looks these days |
| 08:43.56 | jasta | it is starting to feel like a phone now :) |
| 08:45.03 | anno^da_ | well yes I like the widgets a lot more than in M5 |
| 08:45.34 | anno^da_ | the EditText looks fine now |
| 08:45.51 | umdk1d4 | anno^da_: its the boss from office space ;) |
| 08:46.02 | jasta | umdk1d4: nice :) |
| 08:46.25 | umdk1d4 | it freaked me out first time i saw it |
| 08:46.30 | jasta | hmm, what the hell. the phone is locked... |
| 08:46.45 | umdk1d4 | i was expecting a snapshot of the grey bouncign square |
| 08:46.48 | jasta | hehe, i was able to unlock it by rotating it |
| 08:47.28 | jasta | hah yeah, there it is |
| 08:47.30 | jasta | ohhh, this is nice |
| 08:47.36 | jasta | if you try to set a wallpaper, itlets you crop it right in the phone |
| 08:47.56 | romainguy | try setting a picture for a contact |
| 08:48.02 | romainguy | and admire the face detection |
| 08:48.10 | jasta | lol, i set the office space guy as the wallpaper :) |
| 08:48.14 | jasta | this is fun to play with |
| 08:48.46 | anno^da_ | umdk1d4: ahhh :D |
| 08:48.46 | jasta | romainguy: whoa. fancy. |
| 08:48.59 | jasta | it seems to work great on the office space guy :) |
| 08:49.01 | anno^da_ | eastereggs all around :P |
| 08:49.29 | anno^da_ | umdk1d4: do I have to expect something different when taking the raw stream ? (and dont say surprise :DD ) |
| 08:49.30 | jasta | romainguy: hey, so i created that widget i was mentioning much earlier tonight |
| 08:49.30 | romainguy | the cool thing about the cropper and the face detection is that you can ask for them with a simple intent |
| 08:49.41 | romainguy | you can also use circle crops if I remember |
| 08:49.49 | jasta | romainguy: to "efficiently" lookup row views in a listview by dataset id. |
| 08:50.14 | jasta | it seems to work great, actually |
| 08:50.36 | jasta | if you want to see what i meant: |
| 08:50.52 | jasta | http://code.google.com/p/five/source/browse/trunk/five-client/src/org/devtcg/five/widget/StatefulListView.java |
| 08:51.59 | romainguy | " Only "visible" views |
| 08:51.59 | romainguy | <PROTECTED> |
| 08:51.59 | romainguy | <PROTECTED> |
| 08:52.00 | romainguy | this is not true |
| 08:52.12 | romainguy | ListView has a two-stage recycler |
| 08:52.24 | romainguy | there's the active set and the scrap heap |
| 08:52.34 | romainguy | the first one is views we know we can put back on screen directly |
| 08:52.44 | romainguy | the scrap heap contains views that might be used later, for another layout |
| 08:52.56 | jasta | and those are all children? |
| 08:52.56 | romainguy | and there's no guarantee about the number of views in the scrap heap |
| 08:53.04 | romainguy | they are "detached" |
| 08:53.10 | jasta | what does that mean? |
| 08:53.19 | romainguy | they are not children of the ListView but kept around and they have some ties to the ListView |
| 08:53.31 | jasta | right, so those wouldn't be searchable with this either then. |
| 08:53.52 | anno^da_ | Ah and romainguy I want to thank you guys for all the work. Now I'm having more and more fun with the SDK :) |
| 08:53.53 | jasta | i assume that only children of listview are actually being drawn in this code... |
| 08:54.18 | jasta | that is, they are not recycleable views: they really are getting drawn. it only searches those. |
| 08:54.24 | romainguy | ah sorry I thought your cache kept the views |
| 08:54.31 | romainguy | that would be wrong |
| 08:54.33 | jasta | no, the cache just maps to row positions from dataset id |
| 08:54.49 | romainguy | yes that's the right way to do it |
| 08:54.55 | umdk1d4 | speaking of listviews, i wonder if ontouchlistener is fired to individual children list items, and also to the parent listview |
| 08:54.56 | romainguy | that's why I didn't want you to keep the views in the cache |
| 08:55.02 | jasta | and its just a cache: it has to search at least once for each dataset id, but it only searches the children of the list. |
| 08:55.06 | romainguy | umdk1d4: use onItemClickListener |
| 08:55.16 | romainguy | also there's another issue with your listview |
| 08:55.22 | romainguy | you never unregister the dataobserver |
| 08:55.25 | umdk1d4 | mmm but i really want to use touch to detect a gesture |
| 08:55.30 | romainguy | it's probably fine in your case |
| 08:55.34 | jasta | romainguy: yes, i went a different route than dealing with views directly. i realized that searching was a good approach beacuse the set of visible children is pretty small really |
| 08:55.43 | romainguy | but you could easily leak the entire activity if you kept the adapter around somewhere |
| 08:55.43 | jasta | it would search in constant time, so the worst case scenario is still good. |
| 08:56.06 | jasta | i wondered that. i didn't know where would be proper to unregister. |
| 08:56.10 | romainguy | anno^da_: thanks :) |
| 08:56.24 | romainguy | usually we do that in setAdapter() and onDetachedFromWindow() |
| 08:57.40 | jasta | romainguy: in general, does this strategy seem like the right thing to be doing? |
| 08:57.46 | jasta | i mean, my whole StatefulListView |
| 08:58.09 | romainguy | I would not say that it's the right way to go in general |
| 08:58.19 | jasta | why? |
| 08:58.27 | romainguy | ListView being ListView, I strongly advise against any form of messing with it other than with the adapter :) |
| 08:59.10 | jasta | i suppose i am inspecting some of its behaviours by assuming its children represent all the views it will draw (and no more) |
| 08:59.26 | jasta | but what i want can't be done with adapters alone... |
| 08:59.57 | romainguy | in your case |
| 09:00.05 | jasta | and this is very efficient for both common cases and esoteric ones. much more so than scanning the entire cursor to figure out these positions or firing notifyDataSetChanged all the time |
| 09:00.10 | romainguy | in all the apps I've seen so far, the position was enough |
| 09:00.52 | jasta | romainguy: my application often use services to instruct of events that the activity is monitoring |
| 09:01.01 | jasta | these events are rightly keyed by the database id of the thing being monitored |
| 09:01.05 | romainguy | yeah I got that |
| 09:01.09 | jasta | so the only key into the UI is the dataset id. |
| 09:01.19 | jasta | this, by the way, must be exactly what the "Now playing" scree of the music player does. |
| 09:01.39 | jasta | it gets, from the service, the current playing song. it has to then mush that into the UI. it probably does it very inefficiently, where i do not :) |
| 09:02.01 | romainguy | sure |
| 09:02.20 | romainguy | but your code in return is now a premature optimization :) |
| 09:02.40 | romainguy | not that it won't work |
| 09:02.42 | jasta | not in an 0.9r1 release ;) |
| 09:02.48 | romainguy | well |
| 09:02.56 | jasta | in M5, yeah ;) |
| 09:03.19 | romainguy | when you fling a listview, it basically does the equivalent of tons of notifyDatasetChanged |
| 09:03.29 | romainguy | and it's fast enough |
| 09:03.54 | romainguy | so most of the time, the simplest optimization is to fire a dataset changed if the affected position is visible on screen |
| 09:03.54 | jasta | and the advantage with this abstraction is that it centralizes very neatly all the code with assumptions. it would be trivial to disable all this and just have it always return null and then the usage would have to fire notifyDataSetChanged anyway. |
| 09:04.24 | jasta | didn't you say earlier that for progress updates, that wouldn't be a good idea? :) |
| 09:04.25 | romainguy | again you do whatever you want |
| 09:04.30 | romainguy | yes |
| 09:04.39 | romainguy | but you seem to want to use this for any update |
| 09:04.40 | jasta | well, that's what the activity does that uses this ;) |
| 09:04.42 | romainguy | and that's a bad idea |
| 09:04.50 | romainguy | I know ListView very very very well |
| 09:05.08 | romainguy | and believe me when I say that it can be very tricky to try to alter the way it works |
| 09:05.15 | romainguy | not that it's not possible |
| 09:05.36 | romainguy | but I've seen many applications try to do fancy things that ended up triggering very subtle issues |
| 09:05.58 | romainguy | very often as we changed the implementation of ListView |
| 09:05.59 | jasta | at least mine degrades nicely :) |
| 09:06.10 | jasta | if it had to be thrown away entirely it would not be hard to do |
| 09:06.20 | romainguy | I just don't think that your "optimization" is worth the risks |
| 09:06.26 | jasta | since all it's doing is adding code to replace the need to call one simple function: notifyDataSetChanged |
| 09:06.28 | romainguy | *if* you try to use it for any update |
| 09:06.52 | romainguy | if you just change the rendering of the views, that's fine |
| 09:06.59 | jasta | romainguy: how could the risks be acceptable in one usage and not in another? the code must be correct if used often or just once. |
| 09:07.00 | romainguy | just don't do that when you change the actual data |
| 09:07.06 | romainguy | no |
| 09:07.29 | romainguy | because when you update the progress you just update some visual feedback, not the number of items in the adapter |
| 09:07.35 | romainguy | nor the actual data content of each item |
| 09:07.52 | romainguy | in these cases you really want to let ListView know about the change |
| 09:07.52 | jasta | but that can be updated regardless. its backed by a cursor which can change at any time. |
| 09:08.34 | romainguy | as long as ListView gets its notifyDatasetChanged when the data changes, that's fine |
| 09:08.51 | jasta | is there a case that it won't!? |
| 09:08.57 | romainguy | argh |
| 09:09.14 | romainguy | it's an answer to your question about using your fancy ListView in generic cases |
| 09:09.19 | romainguy | I'm telling you it's no always okay |
| 09:09.58 | romainguy | anyway |
| 09:09.59 | romainguy | bed time |
| 09:10.06 | jasta | when i say general in this case, i don't mean to update both the backing data and the UI fluff alike. this class is only for updating UI fluff not backed by the cursor. |
| 09:10.12 | jasta | non-persistent stateful data |
| 09:10.33 | jasta | shit like progress of syncs, current playing song, bla bla. no other usage is valid by my own contract. |
| 09:10.53 | jasta | so i'd have to misuse my own code to misuse yours ;) |
| 09:20.11 | jasta | ohh neat, Gears seems to be included in 0.9r1 :) |
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| 09:30.24 | anno^da_ | romainguy: Just for your info. The video recording is not supported in the current SDK. That's why the MediaRecorder fails while being started. |
| 09:31.51 | jasta | anno^da_: what are you working on? :P |
| 09:33.13 | anno^da_ | haha always the same :). Recording audio,video,pictures and creating text content on the go. And getting it directly on flickr, tumblr, twitter, etc. Just some mobile blogging app with as less as possible interface or settings you have to take. |
| 09:33.38 | jasta | neat :) |
| 09:33.40 | anno^da_ | Just decide video/text/audio/image |
| 09:33.42 | jasta | how well along are you? |
| 09:35.18 | anno^da_ | Well at the moment it is possible to take a picture/video (ok video is faked after the broken recorder :) ) /audio/text get it on Tumblr, save the pictures at Flickr, save the videos at Vimeo and announce your post on Twitter and setup a ping for the new Blog post at Technorati. |
| 09:35.57 | anno^da_ | So the centra point is Tumblr at the moment. And for saving the content Flickr, Vimeo. And announcing is done by Twitter, Technorati. |
| 09:36.19 | anno^da_ | the Tumblr post embedds the Flickr pictures or Vimeo videos. |
| 09:36.34 | jasta | nice |
| 09:36.56 | anno^da_ | and the pictures get the actual Geo location added. :) |
| 09:37.41 | cutmasta_ | if gps chip is in the device |
| 09:37.42 | cutmasta_ | :) |
| 09:37.49 | anno^da_ | Thats it. :-) |
| 09:37.56 | cutmasta_ | but without |
| 09:38.01 | anno^da_ | and if the lastknownLocation is good enough |
| 09:38.05 | cutmasta_ | the whole device with android makes no sense |
| 09:38.26 | cutmasta_ | location based services is a must have to compete with iphone for exmaple |
| 09:38.27 | anno^da_ | has someone asked why the removed the getCurrentLocation? |
| 09:39.31 | cutmasta_ | good questions |
| 09:39.34 | cutmasta_ | -s |
| 09:40.05 | jasta | hmm, yo ucant double tap the screen to zoom in on maps? that sucks |
| 09:40.27 | anno^da_ | hmm what is the easiest way to get sth on to the sd card ? |
| 09:40.38 | jasta | just put it there. |
| 09:40.58 | anno^da_ | hmm well it says that its just read only |
| 09:41.26 | anno^da_ | or do I have to create one again? (I've just seen it in the DDMS view) |
| 09:41.27 | jasta | it isn't. check the permissions of your faked sdcard img |
| 09:41.32 | anno^da_ | ah ok. |
| 09:41.39 | jasta | but don't hardcode /sdcard |
| 09:41.44 | anno^da_ | just thought it is included now. |
| 09:41.47 | jasta | there's some property somewhere to give you that path |
| 09:41.50 | jasta | i forgot how |
| 09:41.54 | anno^da_ | yeah |
| 09:41.54 | jasta | but its there |
| 09:42.10 | anno^da_ | just wanted to test the sample apps :) |
| 09:42.18 | anno^da_ | image viewer of media player |
| 09:42.21 | anno^da_ | or |
| 09:43.20 | tric | anno^da: audio recording into a stream is working in current sdk? |
| 09:44.08 | anno^da_ | no faked it. |
| 09:44.14 | anno^da_ | oh well |
| 09:44.18 | anno^da_ | I dont really no |
| 09:44.26 | anno^da_ | at the moment I have faked it |
| 09:44.36 | anno^da_ | but havent tested audio |
| 09:44.42 | anno^da_ | video doesnt work. |
| 09:44.46 | tric | ok. me too. and i didnt try with new sdk. and prolly wont unless i know for sure its working |
| 09:45.03 | anno^da_ | I will test it later on today |
| 09:45.24 | anno^da_ | just have to update my normal system now to 0.9. After I haveported my app on the virtual machine. |
| 09:46.47 | anno^da_ | (btw Virtual Box is not that bad :) ) |
| 09:47.33 | jasta | i have stayed up til 3am 2 nights in a row now ;) |
| 09:47.38 | jasta | suucccky times at work tomorrow ;) |
| 09:47.43 | anno^da_ | :D |
| 09:48.35 | anno^da_ | have you seen the firefox mobile video ? |
| 09:48.47 | cutmasta_ | anno^da_, ? |
| 09:48.51 | anno^da_ | I really like the way to use the browser |
| 09:49.03 | cutmasta_ | ah |
| 09:49.06 | cutmasta_ | yap |
| 09:49.08 | cutmasta_ | right |
| 09:49.13 | anno^da_ | http://who-knows.tumblr.com/ <- third post |
| 09:51.20 | tric | anno: i still dont understand why you use virtualbox to develop for android |
| 09:51.55 | anno^da_ | I need the application for a presentation. |
| 09:52.03 | anno^da_ | And wasnt sure of porting or not. |
| 09:52.13 | anno^da_ | Dont want to lose that much time. |
| 09:52.39 | anno^da_ | So I've given myself one day to port it. |
| 09:53.04 | anno^da_ | And didnt want to destroy the M5 environment. |
| 09:55.59 | tric | ah ok |
| 09:57.12 | anno^da_ | and now it is ported after a lot of hours that I replaced all the multipart things :) |
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| 10:05.54 | plusminus_ | hm, anyone knows how often the Android SDK has been downloaded? Do I remember something like 700.000 correctly? |
| 10:06.53 | anno^da_ | has eclipse found the update or did you reinstall the plugin? Updating hmm doesnt really work here at the moment :) |
| 10:07.15 | plusminus_ | did not yet reinstall, too busy |
| 10:07.59 | anno^da_ | :-) |
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| 10:11.25 | tric | anno: i updated on 2 boxed. but on one of them i cannot create new android projects anymore. even after un and reinstalling |
| 10:13.50 | anno^da_ | What does it mean you can not create ? I had the problem that R didnt get updated anymore but I found the solution for that. |
| 10:14.34 | plusminus_ | how many active Android developers are out there in the whole world? What would you guess? |
| 10:15.38 | plusminus_ | 30k-50k ? |
| 10:15.45 | cutmasta_ | no |
| 10:15.52 | cutmasta_ | active max. 10k |
| 10:16.13 | plusminus_ | because of the Android-Google-Groups count? |
| 10:16.41 | cutmasta_ | no, just a quick thought |
| 10:21.37 | alex2308 | even less i believe |
| 10:22.10 | tric | anno: NPE in the plugin while building the project |
| 10:22.45 | alex2308 | and most developers are beginners or students or hobby programmers |
| 10:23.06 | cutmasta_ | alex2308, think so too |
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| 10:34.26 | anno^da_ | has someone has an "unknown socket error -1" while executing something with the HTTPClient? |
| 10:35.00 | anno^da_ | oh |
| 10:35.01 | anno^da_ | <uses-permission android:name="android.permission.INTERNET" /> |
| 10:35.02 | anno^da_ | ) |
| 10:35.05 | anno^da_ | :) |
| 10:35.51 | tric | yes. exactly ;) |
| 10:36.11 | anno^da_ | working now :D |
| 10:36.18 | anno^da_ | so the port is done *g* |
| 10:36.57 | alex2308 | anno^da_ do you use HTTPClient to get data from the internet? |
| 10:37.17 | alex2308 | (do you read the response stream?) |
| 10:37.57 | anno^da_ | Yeah I'm getting it and I parse the responses. |
| 10:38.05 | anno^da_ | JSON,XML, PLAIN everything |
| 10:38.45 | cutmasta_ | anno^da_, does the httpclient performs well? |
| 10:38.50 | cutmasta_ | and the json parser also? |
| 10:39.01 | cutmasta_ | i also work with an json http interface |
| 10:39.04 | alex2308 | may i have a look at it? anno^da_ |
| 10:42.03 | anno^da_ | cutmasta_: well I like it. It works very straight forward and is really simple to use. |
| 10:42.36 | tomgibara | Does anyone know what replaces the attribute <Gallery android:spinnerSelector=""> ? |
| 10:42.40 | anno^da_ | alex2308: later on. Please remind me in 20 minutes. Having to recreate my database funcionality. |
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| 10:42.51 | anno^da_ | at the moment. |
| 10:43.02 | cutmasta_ | anno^da_, sounds very good |
| 10:43.10 | cutmasta_ | is also https working? |
| 10:43.21 | cutmasta_ | with self signed certs etc. |
| 10:43.30 | anno^da_ | ho havent tested https now. |
| 10:43.36 | anno^da_ | But I will try that. |
| 10:43.44 | cutmasta_ | ok |
| 10:43.53 | anno^da_ | Will implement the Delicious API later on. |
| 10:43.53 | cutmasta_ | would be interesting to get your test result :) |
| 10:44.10 | anno^da_ | and it uses https |
| 10:44.14 | anno^da_ | yeah no problem :) |
| 10:44.28 | alex2308 | anno^da_ no prob, will try to |
| 10:47.06 | tric | anyone got a notifications example with 0.9 for me please? |
| 10:47.48 | anno^da_ | yeah |
| 10:48.03 | anno^da_ | look at the AlarmService example tric |
| 10:48.06 | Dougie187 | so is the nda over now that 0.9 is out? |
| 10:48.33 | Dougie187 | or is it still going? |
| 10:49.05 | anno^da_ | you have to implement all methods tric mentioned in the sample. |
| 10:49.21 | anno^da_ | Otherwise it will fail. I've got that problem 2 hours ago :-) |
| 10:49.27 | anno^da_ | alex2308: http://paste.pocoo.org/show/82790/ |
| 10:49.41 | tric | ah thx anno |
| 10:50.28 | alex2308 | anno^da_ whats clients class? GoogleHTTPClient? |
| 10:50.58 | tric | dougie: i bet there are still nda |
| 10:57.31 | anno^da_ | alex2308: it is the normale DefaultHttpClient |
| 10:57.42 | alex2308 | ill try this one then |
| 10:59.05 | alex2308 | this is what i tried http://rafb.net/p/SO9Pl143.html (but it doesnt work) |
| 11:00.09 | cutmasta_ | alex2308, does not work? |
| 11:00.21 | cutmasta_ | also with DefaultHttpClient =? |
| 11:00.22 | alex2308 | it says this thread forbids http requests |
| 11:00.28 | alex2308 | didnt try, will do later |
| 11:00.29 | cutmasta_ | use defaulthttpclient |
| 11:03.15 | tric | btw, the emu is still single threaded, or is there some flag to enable smp or something like that? |
| 11:09.45 | anno^da_ | plusminus_: will you be in munich at the developer day ? |
| 11:12.02 | tric | hmm, android dev day? |
| 11:12.14 | plusminus_ | nope, I'm in U.S. for an Internship the next 6 months, startign netx week |
| 11:12.14 | anno^da_ | yeah in munich |
| 11:12.27 | Dougie187 | damn, where is your internship at/ |
| 11:12.29 | plusminus_ | not Android-Dev-Day just "Google" |
| 11:12.36 | anno^da_ | yeah I know |
| 11:12.43 | anno^da_ | perhaps there will be sth about android :-) |
| 11:12.47 | plusminus_ | Maryland, College PArk |
| 11:12.55 | plusminus_ | Fraunhofer INstitute for bla... |
| 11:12.55 | Dougie187 | i mean what company. |
| 11:13.02 | Dougie187 | lol |
| 11:13.06 | plusminus_ | Experimental SOftware Engineering |
| 11:13.06 | Dougie187 | for bla? |
| 11:13.09 | plusminus_ | ;) |
| 11:13.29 | Dougie187 | i'm sure they appreciate the advertisement. |
| 11:14.16 | plusminus_ | ? |
| 11:14.51 | Dougie187 | "(07:12:55 AM) plusminus_: Fraunhofer INstitute for bla..." |
| 11:14.54 | Dougie187 | thats all. |
| 11:15.02 | Dougie187 | i thought it was humorous. |
| 11:15.20 | Dougie187 | Do you know what kinda stuff you will get to work on? |
| 11:19.13 | tomgibara | Perhaps I'm being dumb, but I can't see where to get the IMEI number - has done this in the new SDK? |
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| 11:29.04 | alex2308 | ill be in munich end of sep |
| 11:29.09 | alex2308 | to get drunk |
| 11:30.02 | plusminus_ | i hope before you'll be eating all snacks :D |
| 11:30.37 | alex2308 | i never poke if you meant this |
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| 11:32.11 | alex2308 | btw free snacks in frankfurt today |
| 11:32.35 | alex2308 | hochhaus am park, 14th floor, starts 6.30 pm |
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| 11:42.52 | anno^da_ | Could someone tell me what is wrong with that: http://paste.pocoo.org/show/82792/ . I'm trying to get a row (for service = tumblr) out of the database but if fails all the time. With M5 this worked. The database looks like this: http://img.skitch.com/20080820-gd39hr7sc38peyae4e88gj5awm.jpg so there must be a service = tumblr. |
| 11:45.38 | plusminus_ | maybe a result.first() before testing !result.isFirst() |
| 11:45.50 | plusminus_ | seems like its moveToFirst() in v0.9 |
| 11:46.06 | plusminus_ | This method will return false if the cursor is empty. |
| 11:47.20 | alex2308 | zwei dumme ein gedanke |
| 11:47.28 | alex2308 | überhaupt finde ich die abfrage eigenartig |
| 11:49.57 | anno^da_ | ahh plusminus_ :) I've converted the first to the wrong method |
| 11:51.09 | anno^da_ | working now :) |
| 11:51.20 | anno^da_ | next time I will use the raw queries again |
| 11:51.41 | anno^da_ | Without them I'm producing sooo much errors :) |
| 11:56.16 | plusminus_ | ;) |
| 12:04.15 | alex2308 | wann fliegst du hisbollah plusminus_? |
| 12:04.52 | plusminus_ | ^^ in 6 tagen osama |
| 12:05.26 | plusminus_ | ... |
| 12:05.39 | tric | nu wirst nimmer reingelasse |
| 12:05.46 | plusminus_ | :D |
| 12:06.22 | alex2308 | terrorist |
| 12:06.27 | alex2308 | bomb white house kill bush |
| 12:06.29 | alex2308 | :D |
| 12:06.44 | alex2308 | ich muss gespoofte packete absenden mit anddev als absender |
| 12:07.32 | alex2308 | omg, look, hisbollah.org links to anddev.org! |
| 12:07.40 | alex2308 | there must be a connection |
| 12:07.53 | plusminus_ | I'm so dead now... |
| 12:08.07 | plusminus_ | wtf |
| 12:09.01 | alex2308 | omg http://www.hisbollah.org/info.png |
| 12:09.02 | plusminus_ | witzbold |
| 12:10.09 | plusminus_ | Registrant Name:Alex Georgiev Registrant Street1:Tacitusstr. 68 Registrant Street2: Registrant Street3: Registrant City:Frankfurt Am Main Registrant State/Province: Registrant Postal Code:60439 Registrant Country:DE |
| 12:10.59 | alex2308 | its not updated, i transfered it to Nicolas Gramlich, Mannheimerstr 25, 69198 Schriesheim |
| 12:12.17 | plusminus_ | <no-comment> |
| 12:12.25 | alex2308 | :p |
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| 12:24.36 | anno^da_ | cutmasta: you are using the LocationManager right ? Did you get a location through "lastKnownLocation()" ? |
| 12:25.16 | anno^da_ | I'm always getting a Nullpointer there and dont really know why. I've added all the permissions. With M5 I did get some Location. :) |
| 12:26.16 | alex2308 | anno^da_ im getting a security exception (didnt gave permission) |
| 12:28.00 | alex2308 | anno^da_: http://rafb.net/p/2npYPy74.html |
| 12:28.50 | inZane-_ | i have a similar problem with requestLocationUpdates() |
| 12:29.05 | inZane-_ | http://groups.google.com/group/android-developers/browse_thread/thread/07e56400d349817b |
| 12:29.58 | anno^da_ | inZane-_: have you added "<uses-permission android:name="android.permission.ACCESS_MOCK_LOCATION" />" |
| 12:30.12 | anno^da_ | But even with that permission it doesnt work for me |
| 12:30.18 | alex2308 | join hisbollah forces and ill tell you the right code |
| 12:30.20 | alex2308 | :p |
| 12:30.22 | inZane-_ | yeah same problem |
| 12:35.21 | alex2308 | join hisbollah. you get free email (yourname@hisbollah.org) if you join within next hour! |
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| 12:39.01 | cutmasta | anno^da_, no, i dont use location manager |
| 12:39.14 | cutmasta | i just wanted to know if https with defaulthttpclient works |
| 12:39.17 | cutmasta | :) |
| 12:45.17 | anno^da_ | yeah thats what I know just thought that you were the guy with the lM as well :-D |
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| 13:04.15 | inZane- | a google guy postet a "LocationSample" in the files section |
| 13:04.16 | inZane- | http://groups.google.com/group/android-developers |
| 13:04.24 | inZane- | lets check out if it works :-D |
| 13:07.06 | inZane- | same problem |
| 13:07.08 | plusminus_ | looks simplier than in m5 |
| 13:07.11 | plusminus_ | ^^ |
| 13:07.11 | inZane- | no location updates |
| 13:07.12 | inZane- | jmpf |
| 13:07.14 | inZane- | hmpf |
| 13:07.47 | inZane- | 08-20 13:06:34.220: DEBUG/GpsLocationProvider(49): setMinTime 0 |
| 13:07.47 | inZane- | 08-20 13:06:34.289: DEBUG/GpsLocationProvider(49): startNavigating |
| 13:07.50 | inZane- | and thats it |
| 13:09.01 | inZane- | yes its much simpler |
| 13:09.06 | inZane- | but it doesnt work :-D |
| 13:12.14 | anno^da_ | argh no updates again ? |
| 13:13.28 | inZane- | jup |
| 13:13.47 | tric | you have to move your emu around! |
| 13:15.01 | inZane- | lol |
| 13:15.19 | cutmasta | lol |
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| 13:22.14 | anno^da_ | a haha tric |
| 13:22.15 | anno^da_ | :) |
| 13:23.24 | inZane- | ahh |
| 13:23.30 | inZane- | i hate new sdk |
| 13:23.35 | inZane- | one problem follows another |
| 13:23.43 | inZane- | i cant abort the sms broadcast :-( |
| 13:24.19 | plusminus_ | there are always problems in the first days of new sdks |
| 13:25.33 | inZane- | "BroadcastReceiver trying to return result during a non-ordered broadcast |
| 13:25.40 | inZane- | " |
| 13:26.02 | alex2308 | haha, and i cant receive sms messages |
| 13:26.21 | inZane- | receiving works |
| 13:26.31 | inZane- | at least for me |
| 13:26.31 | inZane- | ^^ |
| 13:26.41 | alex2308 | ive to check the service registering part |
| 13:26.59 | muthu | for location updates: public void requestLocationUpdates(String provider, long minTime, float minDistance, LocationListener listener) |
| 13:27.16 | muthu | you might want to change the minTime, and minDistance to something other than 0 |
| 13:27.50 | inZane- | i already changed the values |
| 13:27.54 | inZane- | but nothing |
| 13:28.08 | inZane- | getLastKnownLocation doesnt work either |
| 13:28.55 | inZane- | the map application supplied by android also has this problem |
| 13:29.18 | inZane- | if you click the "My Location" menu item |
| 13:29.19 | inZane- | its like |
| 13:29.21 | inZane- | "trying to resolve your location..." |
| 13:29.38 | inZane- | and some secs later "unable to bblabla" |
| 13:31.14 | Acsia | does anybody know where driving direction has done? |
| 13:31.21 | Acsia | hey muthu how is it going? |
| 13:31.30 | Acsia | how s your cooking app? |
| 13:42.27 | plusminus_ | muthu: the 0 comes from the official example. Maybe it means give me every single damn location-update ;) |
| 13:47.27 | alex2308 | flood? |
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| 14:03.23 | inZane- | Acsia: can't find DrivingDirections either |
| 14:03.45 | inZane- | maybe their were removed to avoid applicatino like AndNav :-) |
| 14:03.49 | inZane- | *they |
| 14:04.14 | muthu | oh yeah |
| 14:04.19 | muthu | you need to push the updates |
| 14:04.31 | inZane- | what? |
| 14:04.44 | tric | where were the /tmp directoy moved to? any simple location? |
| 14:16.41 | swetland | it's gone |
| 14:19.33 | plusminus_ | inZane-: The Android-Built-In DrivingDirections Class was not working properly! Therfore I created my own implementation: http://www.anddev.org/route_-_improved_google_driving_directions-t1892.html |
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| 14:21.19 | alex2308 | swetland: where do we drop files now |
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| 14:44.21 | muthu | jamaicans rule the tracks! |
| 14:51.08 | anno^da_ | haha |
| 14:51.17 | anno^da_ | I dont believe him :-) |
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| 15:27.03 | anno^da_ | oh my good I have something for all the german readers here: "Android soll wohl eine Touchscreen-Unterstützung haben, mit GPS klarkommen und auch im Bereich âAjaxâ gut da stehen. " One more buzzword needed? Touchscreen,GPS AND Ajax. Wow Android must be the killer os. :P |
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| 15:30.43 | muthu | is there a way to connect to the emulator sqlite db? |
| 15:34.17 | cbeust_ | adb shell sqlite3 |
| 15:35.42 | muthu | does that work? |
| 15:35.55 | muthu | looks like sqlite3 is removed from adb shell |
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| 15:48.14 | morrildl | yeah sqlite3 was removed from the emulator system image |
| 15:48.23 | morrildl | that might have been intentional, I'm trying to figure it out |
| 15:48.40 | morrildl | the BIG problem is that due to an oversight we didn't ship the sqlite3.exe binary in the Windows SDK |
| 15:48.42 | morrildl | we are working on that |
| 15:48.49 | muthu | ok, the only way right now is to use adb pull |
| 15:50.43 | inZane- | morrildl: do you know what happened to DrivingDirections in the new SDK? |
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| 15:51.05 | zhobbs | morrildl: doh, I used sqlite3 all the time in adb shell |
| 15:51.22 | jasta | oh boy |
| 15:51.28 | jasta | soooooooo tired :) |
| 15:52.45 | jasta | why don't you guys just compile it and throw it back on there? |
| 15:53.03 | jasta | or, hell, i'm sure the ELF format hasn't changed. just copy the old one. |
| 15:53.05 | morrildl | jasta: we are definitely going to provide a Windows build of sqlite3.exe |
| 15:53.30 | morrildl | jasta: I'm not sure we CAN include sqlite3 in the emu image without rebuilding the system image, which would be a whole new SDK release |
| 15:53.35 | morrildl | anyway we are looking into it |
| 15:54.04 | jasta | you can't, maybe, but we could. it's not a custom sqlite3 AFAICT. |
| 15:54.27 | morrildl | jasta: correct |
| 15:55.17 | muthu | which port does the sqlite db server run on? |
| 15:56.05 | muthu | can we use sqlmanager to connect direct to the emulator db ? |
| 15:56.27 | jasta | muthu: sqlite does not use sockets for communication. |
| 15:56.34 | muthu | right |
| 15:56.40 | jasta | there is no server. it just opens the file and locks it. |
| 15:56.53 | muthu | in that case |
| 15:57.00 | morrildl | that's why it's "SQL-lite" :) |
| 15:57.11 | muthu | agree ;) |
| 15:57.25 | muthu | so how to access the db file from outside emu? |
| 15:57.49 | morrildl | muthu: adb pull /data/app/<package>/databases/<table>.db |
| 15:57.53 | cbeust_ | adb pull it |
| 15:57.57 | morrildl | and then run sqlite3 on it on |
| 15:58.02 | muthu | without pull.. |
| 15:58.08 | morrildl | muthu: you cannot |
| 15:58.19 | muthu | ok |
| 15:59.04 | jasta | muthu: just put the binary back on. the damn thing is probably statically linked. |
| 15:59.24 | jasta | if not, download sqlite3 and build a static one |
| 15:59.28 | muthu | yeah, that might work |
| 15:59.33 | morrildl | jasta: probably |
| 15:59.40 | jasta | if its static, muthu, i know that it will work. |
| 16:01.22 | jasta | if not, it still probably will. id oubt they tore up that much in the standard C library :) |
| 16:01.52 | morrildl | jasta: actually there were quite a lot of bugfixes, it wouldn't surprise me |
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| 16:02.54 | jasta | bug fixes wouldn't cause a shared library to become incompatible. the two don't need to be EABI compatible. |
| 16:03.26 | jasta | not internally, i mean. only the interfaces between the two do. those interfaces are defined by ANSI C, so i doubt Google has elected to change the contract :) |
| 16:03.47 | morrildl | well, part of it is ANSI C, part of it is POSIX |
| 16:04.28 | jasta | that's true, i was oversimplifying. but regardless, sqlite3 ain't using Google interfaces, just a Google implementation of existing standards |
| 16:04.42 | morrildl | yeah, but bionic doesn't support 100% of POSIX |
| 16:04.53 | morrildl | if you ask me what parts, I couldn't answer that :) |
| 16:04.56 | jasta | morrildl: wouldn't matter, so long as you supported at least as much as you did last time you build sqlite3 |
| 16:05.02 | morrildl | true. |
| 16:05.08 | jasta | built* |
| 16:05.20 | morrildl | and anything that would have been removed would not have worked anyway (which is why it would have been removeD) |
| 16:05.36 | morrildl | anyway this is all academic |
| 16:05.43 | morrildl | the thing to do is to try :) |
| 16:06.17 | jasta | is not unsure of himself in this area :) |
| 16:07.05 | jasta | i don't need to do any speculation when it comes to UNIX and C :) |
| 16:07.29 | jasta | anyway, off to work. |
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| 16:27.12 | muthu | GTalk is gone! |
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| 16:27.51 | muthu | device to device communication now boils down to sms.. |
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| 16:32.04 | jasta | muthu: i noticed that. i am very confused. |
| 16:35.15 | tethridge | the "pinch" gesture is patented, right? |
| 16:35.21 | romainguy_ | re |
| 16:36.20 | tethridge | re? |
| 16:36.20 | tethridge | my guess that is why the finger swipe can't be done on the full screen image viewer |
| 16:36.55 | tethridge | because of the way the interface uses the single figure to zoom |
| 16:37.05 | tethridge | well, not zoom, but to move the image once zoomed |
| 16:37.27 | tethridge | what does "re" mean? |
| 16:38.09 | romainguy_ | french way to say "I'm back" |
| 16:38.36 | tethridge | romainguy_, are you french? |
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| 16:41.47 | zhobbs | so can we do anything with the homescreen now? like create widgets/shortcuts? |
| 16:42.46 | jasta | i heard we can create shortcuts to intents, but nothing more. |
| 16:42.52 | jasta | no custom widgets |
| 16:43.25 | romainguy_ | tethridge: yes I am |
| 16:43.33 | romainguy_ | zhobbs: you can do two things |
| 16:43.41 | romainguy_ | install/uninstall shortcuts |
| 16:43.43 | morrildl | a Widgets API is likely appear in a future release |
| 16:43.51 | romainguy_ | or, and that's mor einteresting, expose a shortcut creation activity to Home |
| 16:43.54 | zhobbs | morrildl: post 1.0? |
| 16:43.56 | morrildl | but there are no concrete plans as to when |
| 16:43.58 | romainguy_ | zhobbs: post 10 |
| 16:44.01 | romainguy_ | 1.0 |
| 16:44.01 | morrildl | zhobbs: yes |
| 16:44.21 | romainguy_ | zhobbs: for instance if you do Menu > add > shortcut > contact |
| 16:44.25 | romainguy_ | then pick a contact |
| 16:44.27 | morrildl | is amused by the one article whose reporter somehow concluded that the Home widgets are written using Gears |
| 16:44.46 | romainguy_ | what happens is: Home asks the system for all activities with the intent filter CREATE_SHORTCUT |
| 16:45.06 | romainguy_ | then Home launches the Contacts one with the CREATE_SHORTCUT intent |
| 16:45.17 | romainguy_ | then Contacts set its result to be an Intent |
| 16:45.25 | romainguy_ | that Intent contains an Intent, a name and an icon |
| 16:45.33 | romainguy_ | and Home puts all that on the workspace |
| 16:45.35 | zhobbs | romainguy_: awesome |
| 16:45.47 | romainguy_ | the idea is that you would use that to create shortcuts to things INSIDE applications |
| 16:45.56 | romainguy_ | imagine shortcuts to locations in maps |
| 16:46.12 | romainguy_ | or shortcuts to a folder in a file manager |
| 16:46.18 | romainguy_ | etc. |
| 16:46.31 | romainguy_ | and the icon can be either a resource from the app or a Bitmap |
| 16:46.41 | zhobbs | great, will put a tutorial for this on helloandroid.com :) |
| 16:46.50 | romainguy_ | for instance, if your contacts have a photo associated with them, the photo shows up on Home |
| 16:47.18 | romainguy_ | you can also send the Intent INSTALL_SHORTCUT to Home to directly add a new shortcut |
| 16:47.20 | zhobbs | cool, deleting shortcuts is nice |
| 16:47.24 | zhobbs | drag/drop |
| 16:47.25 | romainguy_ | this requires a permission though |
| 16:47.32 | romainguy_ | Gears uses this feature |
| 16:48.33 | zhobbs | thanks for the info |
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| 16:56.16 | jasta | does anyone know of a way to try to figure out what would be thrashing the disk on Linux? |
| 16:56.43 | jasta | i have gkrellm running and i can clearly see that trivial things like opening terminals and stuff result in lots of I/O on my main disk |
| 16:56.54 | jasta | vmware, which is normally hosted on a separate drive, also has tons of I/O on the main disk |
| 16:56.59 | jasta | like the disk is swapping |
| 16:57.06 | jasta | but i can see no evidence of swapping. |
| 16:57.19 | ttuttle | jasta: tempfiles? |
| 16:57.33 | jasta | i've only ever seen this behaviour on my crummy Dell workstation at work, but still i want to figure out what tools i can use to diagnose this |
| 16:57.46 | jasta | ttuttle: i thought that, so i scanned through lsof and /tmp but couldn't find anything useful |
| 16:58.10 | ttuttle | jasta: run top, look for processes in D state? |
| 17:00.17 | jasta | that's a good idea, but i don't think that's what's happening now |
| 17:00.19 | jasta | hang on, ill try |
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| 17:05.55 | jasta | ttuttle: well, during the heavy I/O, i do see vmplayer, kjournald, and pdflush |
| 17:06.01 | jasta | but the latter two i expect as a result of the I/O |
| 17:06.09 | ttuttle | Okay. |
| 17:06.13 | jasta | and generally i would trust that vmplayer is doing I/O as well |
| 17:06.18 | ttuttle | So VMware is doing a lot of I/O. |
| 17:06.28 | jasta | the problem does seem to be exaggerated by vmplayer, but i don't know that it's directly causing it |
| 17:07.00 | jasta | i just opened urxvt, and gkrellm reported about 4MB/s on /dev/sda for a second or two, then opened the terminal |
| 17:07.05 | jasta | and it took forever compared to normal |
| 17:07.45 | ttuttle | jasta: Sounds like your disk cache and throughput is being thrashed. |
| 17:08.08 | ttuttle | jasta: If I'm copying or otherwise reading a lot of files, it normally takes a *lot* longer to start programs, as they're out of cache, and have to wait in the disk queue longer to load. |
| 17:08.24 | jasta | yes, it does. but i don't have any good tools to diagnose for sure. |
| 17:08.31 | jasta | i dont know of any i mean |
| 17:10.29 | jasta | experiments with /proc/sys/vm/swappiness |
| 17:10.42 | jasta | hell, maybe the disk performance is just really bad in general and linux is doing it's job just fine |
| 17:10.56 | ttuttle | jasta: Maybe you're running out of I/O bandwidth in general? |
| 17:13.31 | jasta | what do you mean? |
| 17:14.13 | jasta | interesting. adjusting swappiness to 0 seems to have a profoundly positive effect |
| 17:14.37 | jasta | disk I/O still seems higher on sda than i would expect, though, but dramatically reduced none-the-less |
| 17:16.29 | jasta | spoke too soon i think |
| 17:16.41 | jasta | starting up vmplayer fresh still has tons of disk I/O on /dev/sda |
| 17:16.47 | jasta | despite the image booting off /dev/sdb |
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| 17:52.20 | jasta | ttuttle: i just rebooted which is what i normally do to fix this issue |
| 17:52.33 | jasta | and then i fire up vmplayer when i get back into the ssytem, and the behaviour is entirely different |
| 17:52.37 | jasta | as it always is |
| 17:52.45 | jasta | there's hardly any writes to sda, all of the I/O to fire up vmplayer is in sdb |
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| 18:24.28 | SanMehat | re: |
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| 18:34.16 | jasta | yawn |
| 18:34.29 | SanMehat | mornin |
| 18:34.40 | jasta | it's so funny how this channel exploded with googlers after you guys launched 0.9 :) |
| 18:34.46 | SanMehat | hahaha |
| 18:34.55 | jasta | Romain's the only one that weathered the storm ;) |
| 18:35.09 | SanMehat | hey i'm still here lol |
| 18:35.13 | jasta | I honestly respect that. |
| 18:38.02 | jasta | SanMehat: hey is there some dude named Marco Nelissen on the team? i'd like his e-mail address if possible :) |
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| 18:39.16 | SanMehat | jasta: if you send me your email, i'd be happy to pass it on. |
| 18:39.18 | SanMehat | email addy rather |
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| 19:08.47 | jasta | fiddles with Eclim to make it work with Android better |
| 19:08.50 | jasta | this thing is so f'n cool :) |
| 19:12.14 | morrildl | jasta: holy shit |
| 19:12.26 | morrildl | bursts into tears |
| 19:12.30 | morrildl | FINALLY |
| 19:12.46 | morrildl | WHERE IS THE DOWNLOAD LINK FOR THE LOVE OF GOD |
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| 19:14.02 | jasta | morrildl: say what? |
| 19:14.07 | morrildl | eclim |
| 19:14.14 | jasta | oh yeah, i've been using it for months you know |
| 19:14.25 | morrildl | it works? |
| 19:14.33 | jasta | it's just that the Android specific integration was basically the suck. because i hacked it together and i didn't do a very good job :) |
| 19:14.38 | jasta | i'm working on doing it better now :) |
| 19:14.48 | jasta | also, i was using a super old version of Eclim (because i needed one that worked with 3.2) |
| 19:15.05 | jasta | but now that i upgraded i decided to take another crack at better Android support, and with 0.9r1 of course |
| 19:15.09 | jasta | but yeah, it works fuckin awesom e;) |
| 19:15.12 | morrildl | jasta: word |
| 19:16.10 | morrildl | "The first, Vim, is arguably one of the best text editors in existence." |
| 19:16.20 | morrildl | Insufficiently assertive! ;) |
| 19:16.28 | jasta | Agreed. |
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| 19:16.49 | jasta | left Vim for the first time in years to even dabble with Android |
| 19:17.07 | jasta | anyway, i'm working on it today so maybe i'll hav esomething to report :) |
| 19:17.09 | morrildl | argh, I didn't need a new toy to play with today |
| 19:17.14 | jasta | i'll blog about it if i get it working satisfactorally |
| 19:21.21 | morrildl | jasta: one could also write a vim plugin that just calls out to the various Android tools like DDMS, etc. |
| 19:21.45 | romainguy_ | btw |
| 19:21.47 | morrildl | I wonder if that would be easier than trying to "frankenstein" together ADT and Eclim |
| 19:21.50 | romainguy_ | there's an Emacs script in tools/lib |
| 19:22.02 | morrildl | romainguy_: oh yeah I totally forgot to mention that |
| 19:22.04 | jasta | yeah, that might be easier. |
| 19:22.05 | Cedric2 | thinks that using vi bindings in Eclipse makes you lose too much in terms of other keybindings to be worth it |
| 19:22.18 | jasta | morrildl: i will try that route, actually. it will be much simpler for me to understand |
| 19:22.23 | morrildl | Cedric2: that's why Eclim is awesome. It's not vi bindings in Eclipse |
| 19:22.34 | morrildl | Cedric2: it's vim, with a bridge to a headless Eclipse |
| 19:22.38 | jasta | Cedric2: Eclim is Eclipse headless for Vim to prod. |
| 19:22.42 | Cedric2 | Yeah, I saw |
| 19:23.36 | jasta | i personally like Eclim because i don't use the thousands of silly features it has. Eclim supports all the big time savers, and then lets me just have an efficient txt editor for everything else. |
| 19:25.41 | Cedric2 | I love both vi and Eclipse but getting used to the standard edit commands in Eclipse is really not that hard (it's also reusable to Word and other editors) |
| 19:25.47 | Cedric2 | s/Eclipse/emacs |
| 19:29.12 | jasta | i honestly don't like how bulky it is. |
| 19:29.26 | morrildl | Cedric2: emacs corrupts your brain |
| 19:29.47 | morrildl | Cedric2: it distorts your neural pathways and the result is that you also write poorer code |
| 19:29.49 | morrildl | ;) |
| 19:31.22 | Cedric2 | I think I turned out ok. Ok, maybe not. |
| 19:35.36 | jasta | morrildl: seriously, eclim is awesome though. it even does the whole auto-correcting your source crap |
| 19:35.39 | jasta | shows you errors, suggests fixes |
| 19:35.52 | jasta | override/implement methods, generate getters, etc. |
| 19:35.58 | jasta | all the big ones are very nicely integrated. |
| 19:36.12 | jasta | it does support ant and maven somehow, but i haven't fiddled with it yet |
| 19:36.21 | jasta | it's super polished, though. |
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| 19:36.49 | morrildl | jasta: does it do source reformatting and organize imports? |
| 19:37.43 | jasta | yes |
| 19:38.01 | jasta | well, actually not reformatting (but Vim does that) |
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| 19:40.12 | jasta | it even uses vim standrd ^X for code completes :) |
| 19:40.20 | jasta | check this: http://eclim.sourceforge.net/vim/code_completion.html |
| 19:41.12 | xavd | for good ADT support in eclim we'd need to be able to run adt headless. Right now there's no ui/core separation in the android plugins like most of the platform plugins :( |
| 19:41.38 | jasta | oh yeah, and one of the binds they recommend is pretty sweet. opens firefox and loads javadoc for the class under the cursor |
| 19:41.44 | jasta | really sweet :) |
| 19:42.01 | jasta | xavd: i decided it might be easiest/best to just implement all this myself actually |
| 19:42.27 | jasta | all that i *really* need is a clean way to build/deploy |
| 19:42.37 | jasta | which i can just hardcode all the comamdns from the real system |
| 19:42.50 | xavd | jasta: look at ddmlib.jar in tools/lib |
| 19:43.11 | xavd | with some hacking you could run ddms headless from that jar |
| 19:43.24 | xavd | which will give you debug support |
| 19:44.00 | jasta | oh tahts true, debug would be helpful |
| 19:44.22 | jasta | i wish i had time to make this a real project :) |
| 19:44.30 | xavd | for building, well the source of the new ADT has been put online, so you could always figure something out |
| 19:44.34 | jasta | it could be a huge hit with open source hackers ;) |
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| 20:06.28 | Acsia | jasta have you seen android-bolt? it uses ruby console to use ant under irb so you can deploy/run tests |
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| 21:17.44 | umdk1d3 | hmm |
| 21:18.41 | umdk1d3 | can we define <scale> animations in xml? it seems to be giving me errors that android:fromX, etc arent found, and that @android:anim/linear_interpolator is private. trying to follow the example shown in ApiDemos/res/anim/fade.xml |
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| 21:24.19 | umdk1d3 | aha found some stuff in hyperspace_out.xml |
| 21:29.00 | anno^da_ | no video recording in 1.0 :/ sounds pretty bad :(. |
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| 21:43.41 | umdk1d3 | o.o 08-20 21:43:08.432: WARN/System.err(2046): java.net.SocketException: unknown error |
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| 21:43.56 | umdk1d3 | but i have android.permission.INTERNET :/ |
| 21:44.31 | inZane- | did anyone already found out what happened with DrivingDirections? |
| 21:44.42 | umdk1d3 | inZane-: its private to Google |
| 21:44.47 | umdk1d3 | it was never meant to be exposed to us |
| 21:44.59 | umdk1d3 | with security tigtening up, its now been taken away |
| 21:45.04 | inZane- | oh noes :-( |
| 21:45.13 | umdk1d3 | afaik there isnt an intent to launch the mapping app either |
| 21:45.23 | umdk1d3 | i realllllly need it badly |
| 21:45.30 | inZane- | me too |
| 21:45.34 | romainguy_ | you can launch the Maps app with an intent |
| 21:45.52 | umdk1d3 | geo:0,0?from=here&to=there for dirivng directions |
| 21:46.04 | umdk1d3 | would be AWESOME |
| 21:46.27 | umdk1d3 | romainguy_: but is there an intent for driving directions? |
| 21:46.34 | romainguy_ | ah |
| 21:46.36 | romainguy_ | I don't know about that |
| 21:48.28 | inZane- | that sucks. my app gets more and more useless |
| 21:48.38 | inZane- | i cant abort sms broadcast anymore |
| 21:48.41 | umdk1d3 | goes to advocate to a higher power |
| 21:48.43 | inZane- | and now this ddd thing |
| 21:48.56 | inZane- | *DD |
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| 22:10.29 | tomgibara | romainguy: Any reason that the anim resources slide_in_left and slide_in_right were kept public but the vertical ones were not? |
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| 22:14.26 | romainguy_ | no idea |
| 22:15.36 | tomgibara | just seems a bit odd, perhaps the former remain by oversight or the latter were removed by accident? |
| 22:17.30 | romainguy_ | most probably the latter |
| 22:17.40 | romainguy_ | we just kept public things that were in use in applications |
| 22:17.48 | romainguy_ | it's easier to make more things public than the opposite :) |
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| 22:22.12 | tomgibara | Naturally, fwiw my application was using them which is why I noticed |
| 22:22.35 | tomgibara | Thanks for the pointer to the TelephonyManager |
| 22:22.41 | romainguy_ | just create your own animations |
| 22:22.44 | romainguy_ | it's pretty simple |
| 22:26.26 | tomgibara | I've created plenty! But it's always nice to have them premade :) |
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| 22:50.49 | jasta | begins redesigning Five's cache and content services to remove the old MediaPlayer hack |
| 22:50.55 | jasta | and to introduce the new one :( |
| 22:51.00 | jasta | *depressed* |
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| 22:54.23 | tomgibara | jasta: Have you tried out the localHttpServerStreamDuplicationHack ? |
| 22:54.56 | jasta | i haven't functionally made it work yet, but i just started on its design (and a redesign of the content/cache service to support it) |
| 22:55.13 | jasta | my original hack was worse, honestly, but it was only done beacuse it was easier and i assumed it could be removed. |
| 22:55.32 | jasta | actually, when i hacked it that way i assumed that it would be gone within a month or two, once the ADC was over and the next version was out. |
| 23:07.17 | Dougie187 | hey Jasta |
| 23:07.20 | Dougie187 | hows it going? |
| 23:09.22 | jasta | pretty good :) |
| 23:09.29 | Dougie187 | nice. |
| 23:09.34 | Dougie187 | i hear your happy about the new sdk |
| 23:10.02 | jasta | overall, yes. but it's quite likely that Five can't run well on 1.0. |
| 23:10.10 | Dougie187 | thats too bad. |
| 23:10.20 | jasta | So I probably won't be releasing it officially until they fix the issue that blocks it. |
| 23:10.30 | Dougie187 | you mean it can't run well period on 1.0 or, it can't run without some modifications? |
| 23:11.29 | jasta | that's yet to be seen. i will have to take a performance hit and craete a kludgey local HTTP server to proxy the real requests to the server |
| 23:11.36 | jasta | so that i can both stream and cache at the same time |
| 23:12.14 | jasta | the problem, though, is that it introduces two additional streams for every non-cached song that is played. |
| 23:12.49 | jasta | The performance overhead may be too great. it's already sketchy how much work Five has to do. |
| 23:13.05 | romainguy_ | as long as you don't measure the performance impact... |
| 23:13.07 | jasta | so it might boil down to a micro-optimization that is simply too much work to do temporarily |
| 23:14.14 | jasta | Dougie187: it's also a *LOT* of extra work than what I thought I was getting. I thought the MediaPlayer was going tos upport caching directly. |
| 23:14.27 | Dougie187 | thats too bad. |
| 23:15.10 | jasta | romainguy_: i can't say on a real device, but it's *really* slow already on the emulator. audio playback, HTTP streaming, and disk access add up ;) |
| 23:15.43 | romainguy_ | how many things do you stream at the same time? |
| 23:15.46 | jasta | it also could use some major opts, which i will be doing regardless. |
| 23:16.10 | jasta | romainguy_: no more than 1 of each of the three can be active at once. |
| 23:17.00 | jasta | i currently can't tell whether it's just a poorly optimized "first try" type solution, or if maybe the emulator is just that much slower... |
| 23:17.48 | romainguy_ | traceview |
| 23:18.12 | jasta | TraceView didn't reveal much, which has me leaning toward the emulator really just being that slow |
| 23:18.12 | Dougie187 | i think the new sdk is pretty cool though. |
| 23:18.20 | jasta | or possibly the work load is really that high that Android will struggle |
| 23:18.29 | jasta | Dougie187: oh yes, all around it's great. |
| 23:18.37 | Dougie187 | i love the new home screen. |
| 23:18.42 | jasta | i am so thankful to be seeing some of the "basic" apps and the phone shit polishing out. |
| 23:18.45 | Dougie187 | its like 10 kinds of awesome. |
| 23:18.54 | Dougie187 | yeah |
| 23:19.05 | romainguy_ | Dougie187: we have more cool stuff for Home, but not for 1.0 :p |
| 23:19.11 | Dougie187 | too bad. |
| 23:19.15 | Dougie187 | its pretty awesome already. |
| 23:19.24 | romainguy_ | I want it to be awesomer :p |
| 23:19.31 | Dougie187 | hey romainguy_ are the ADC1 R1 people still under NDA? |
| 23:19.36 | romainguy_ | yes |
| 23:19.38 | plusminus_ | We'll shit bricks again! |
| 23:19.49 | Dougie187 | so then basically they are still a step ahead of us? |
| 23:19.53 | romainguy_ | Dougie187: at least for everything that's not in the public SDK |
| 23:19.54 | romainguy_ | uh? |
| 23:19.54 | romainguy_ | no |
| 23:20.00 | Dougie187 | ok |
| 23:20.04 | Dougie187 | ohh. |
| 23:20.07 | Dougie187 | so like they have the same sdk. |
| 23:20.12 | Dougie187 | but it just has some other stuff? |
| 23:20.14 | jasta | Dougie187: they don't have the "same" sDK. |
| 23:20.18 | romainguy_ | they just cannot talk about what they heard/saw/used |
| 23:20.21 | Dougie187 | yeah i know. |
| 23:20.24 | jasta | in fact, their SDK was buggier, and didn't include the fancy new home screen. |
| 23:20.24 | romainguy_ | but now they have the same SDK as you guys do |
| 23:20.31 | Dougie187 | ok |
| 23:20.39 | Dougie187 | thats basically just all i was curious about. |
| 23:21.05 | Dougie187 | but yeah, good work on the home screen romainguy_ its awesome. |
| 23:21.23 | Dougie187 | its going to be sweet when we get to use it on a real phone. |
| 23:21.31 | jasta | romainguy_: anyway, regarding the efficiency of my app, I am spending the next couple of weeks churning through it redesigning some pieces i now know to be bottlenecks. |
| 23:21.52 | jasta | getting the project out of that cowboy coding developer challenge mode :) |
| 23:21.59 | Dougie187 | lol |
| 23:22.08 | jasta | so hoepfully performance will implicitly move up quite a lot and maybe i can get some real metrics on Five's applicability :) |
| 23:22.08 | Dougie187 | are you coding like crazy? |
| 23:22.25 | jasta | Dougie187: quite a bit, yes. |
| 23:22.31 | Dougie187 | thats good. |
| 23:22.36 | Dougie187 | We might get hit by a hurricane tomorrow. |
| 23:22.44 | jasta | exciting |
| 23:23.00 | Dougie187 | yeah. Fay is supposed to go right over the top of us tomorrow afternoon |
| 23:23.51 | jasta | romainguy_: I do think that the efficiency loss of the local HTTP server approach will be significant, however. Also, if the MediaPlayer ultimately absorbs the caching feature than it will have been a huge amount of wasted energy |
| 23:24.10 | jasta | since the forking of the stream is pretty tricky when you look at supporting seeking. |
| 23:24.26 | romainguy_ | Also, if the MediaPlayer ultimately absorbs the caching feature than it will have been a huge amount of wasted energy << but not for 1.0 |
| 23:24.28 | jasta | -than +then |
| 23:24.38 | romainguy_ | which means that then you will have to wait for phones to be deployed on the market with that feature |
| 23:25.13 | jasta | that doesn't force my hand. |
| 23:25.35 | romainguy_ | that's not the point |
| 23:25.38 | Dougie187 | i still have to look into the electric fence. |
| 23:25.45 | romainguy_ | I'm just reminding you of the downside of waiting |
| 23:25.46 | jasta | i may decide that targeting 1.0 is not something i want to do. |
| 23:25.54 | romainguy_ | sure |
| 23:26.02 | jasta | and raelistically, i don't think i'll be able to anyway. |
| 23:26.06 | romainguy_ | I'm just telling you that your target might be far away :) |
| 23:26.22 | romainguy_ | you can still target 1.0 but ship the app after the first phones are out :p |
| 23:26.22 | jasta | Five is too far away from a production release to worry too much about that :) |
| 23:26.48 | plusminus_ | AndNav will probably never be :D |
| 23:27.00 | jasta | plusminus_: never be? |
| 23:27.01 | plusminus_ | I'll start an idea-thread of "what could be done" |
| 23:27.22 | plusminus_ | GoogleMaps API ToS does not allow Turn-By-Turn apps |
| 23:27.49 | Dougie187 | i thought there were some in the ADC top 50 though. |
| 23:27.58 | plusminus_ | what qould be if I make the source open and let users do whatever they want to do :) |
| 23:28.08 | jasta | plusminus_: excellent strategy |
| 23:28.25 | jasta | someone somewhere is likely not to give a shit about Google's ToS :) |
| 23:28.34 | Dougie187 | hah |
| 23:28.34 | plusminus_ | But in the end I would be the complete ass anyway, thats what I fear :( |
| 23:28.37 | romainguy_ | jasta: it's also Navteq's |
| 23:28.40 | romainguy_ | and *they* might mind :) |
| 23:28.47 | jasta | romainguy_: so? |
| 23:29.06 | romainguy_ | so you'd be violating a license |
| 23:29.09 | plusminus_ | Prison Break Season 12, starring plusminus |
| 23:29.11 | plusminus_ | wohoo |
| 23:29.16 | jasta | writing open soruce software is currently upheld in the US as a freedom of speech. You cannot be the target of a lawsuit for the production of software, even if the distribution is illegal. |
| 23:29.34 | plusminus_ | sounds great jasta |
| 23:29.43 | romainguy_ | that doesn't make it morally acceptable when you know well that you are violating a commercial license |
| 23:29.45 | plusminus_ | we should have a closer talk :) |
| 23:29.49 | jasta | not that i necessarily advocate this, i am simply expressing that the law clearly protects software developers. |
| 23:29.52 | romainguy_ | you do whatever you want though :) |
| 23:29.56 | tomgibara | jasta: US law maybe |
| 23:30.00 | romainguy_ | it's not just about the law |
| 23:30.13 | jasta | morally acceptable? lol. |
| 23:30.15 | romainguy_ | there's a company who invested a lot of time and money in creating this data |
| 23:30.15 | Dougie187 | lol |
| 23:30.21 | plusminus_ | jasta what about a compiled version? --> No, I assume. |
| 23:30.28 | Dougie187 | yeah but then you have to think if people care about that romainguy_ |
| 23:30.45 | jasta | plusminus_: Compiled versions can be trickier, since the courst are often confused how to define the binaries. |
| 23:30.46 | romainguy_ | Dougie187: it's up to plusminus_ :) |
| 23:30.47 | romainguy_ | anyway |
| 23:30.48 | Dougie187 | which most people would not have a moral contradiction to doing this. |
| 23:30.48 | plusminus_ | but the Nav-APiI is accessible, so not using it is ... WTRF |
| 23:30.59 | Dougie187 | that it is. |
| 23:31.05 | jasta | plusminus_: But mostly, the US makes it illegal to use things, not to distribute/possess/author them. The DMCA is slowly encroaching in this right, of course. |
| 23:31.15 | jasta | on this right* |
| 23:31.18 | xavd | plusminus_: there's a different between providing directions, and real-time turn by turn direction based on your location |
| 23:31.24 | tomgibara | I agree w/ romain on this, I'm a supporter of open source, but a company has the right to decide how their property is used |
| 23:31.34 | plusminus_ | You see, as I said, I'm probably the ass in the end. |
| 23:31.43 | Dougie187 | lol |
| 23:31.55 | Dougie187 | but werent you the ass in the beginning too then? |
| 23:31.59 | Dougie187 | since you decided to start it? |
| 23:32.25 | plusminus_ | romainguy_ Why doesn't Google create a Turn-By-Turn app themselve ? |
| 23:32.30 | jasta | tomgibara: Well, actually, that's the great thing about the US. Your rights are always balanced by the rights of others, and by the general public. |
| 23:32.33 | plusminus_ | I could do it, so you coudl do it 10x better... |
| 23:32.45 | xavd | plusminus_: I encourage you to take a look at http://code.google.com/android/RELEASENOTES.html under Maps & Location (if you haven't already) |
| 23:32.48 | romainguy_ | plusminus_: I have no idea, maybe the license would cost way too much on our scale |
| 23:33.15 | tomgibara | jasta: Can you give an example of what you mean? |
| 23:33.23 | jasta | tomgibara: I ahve the right to not be harrassed by you. But I don't have the right to hit you for it. For example. Companies have the right to control distirbution and copyright of their products, but they do not get to tramble on any other rights. |
| 23:33.29 | jasta | for example, the freedom of speech. |
| 23:33.32 | jasta | or fair use. |
| 23:33.35 | xavd | plusminus_: turn by turn requires a special license (this is why you pay $100 to update your gps device to the "new" road every year, or pay $10/month to verizon) |
| 23:33.38 | jasta | even if they wish to do: they cannot. |
| 23:33.44 | jasta | to do so* |
| 23:34.19 | tomgibara | naturally, but a company that assembles, at great expense, a large amount of data, is well within their rights to exercise their copyrights |
| 23:34.30 | plusminus_ | xavd: "...will allow access to the full MapView API. In this release, ..." |
| 23:34.33 | romainguy_ | and that's where the morally acceptable comes into play |
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| 23:34.37 | plusminus_ | full access :) |
| 23:34.43 | jasta | tomgibara: Sure, but again, the US is designed to balance the rights of everyone together. |
| 23:34.50 | romainguy_ | plusminus_: directions != turn by turn |
| 23:34.50 | Dougie187 | but the only people they can exercise their right to is the people actually using the product. |
| 23:35.02 | jasta | tomgibara: And no matter how much work you put into a product, it does not give you the right to tramble on other inalienable freedoms. |
| 23:35.02 | tomgibara | But I don't quite see how that is relevant in this case |
| 23:35.05 | xavd | plusminus_: to the API sure. When you can bet that getting your key will require you to accept a ToS... |
| 23:35.06 | jasta | And thank god for that. |
| 23:35.28 | jasta | tomgibara: This isn't really up to us to interpret. The law has spoken on several cases relating to this, by the way. |
| 23:35.40 | Dougie187 | tomgibara: hes just saying the person who wrote the software can't get in trouble. the people using the software could though. |
| 23:35.44 | jasta | They are available publicly as well. The most publicized cases of course would be the DeCSS. |
| 23:35.52 | jasta | DeCSS project* |
| 23:36.20 | plusminus_ | romainguy_ I know but I'm searching for a way not to be my code worthless (except what I learnd by coding it) |
| 23:36.45 | Dougie187 | So if they decided to, they could shell out lawsuits to the users who are using the software that violates their licenses. |
| 23:36.46 | jasta | tomgibara: despite the money and energy put into protecting DVDs, no company has the right to imprison the author of the software which reversed their work. As I asid, no one has the right to tramble on another's rights in order to exercise theirs. |
| 23:36.47 | plusminus_ | plusminus_: that grammar sucked |
| 23:37.13 | tomgibara | I understand these points, and agree with them. |
| 23:37.27 | tomgibara | But I still think there is a moral point to answer |
| 23:37.28 | plusminus_ | jasta thats true |
| 23:37.38 | jasta | tomgibara: The freedom of speech is exceptionally important here, even if in the short term it can damage technologies or markets. |
| 23:37.39 | Dougie187 | tomgibara: personally, i don't think there is a moral point. |
| 23:38.05 | Dougie187 | tomgibara: i sort of think of it as options... or balancing the market. |
| 23:38.06 | plusminus_ | it is also not morally ok to crack CSS and publish an app that can crack |
| 23:38.10 | jasta | Dougie187: i just thought the "moral" argument was humerous. Comapnies operate within the letter of the law (SOMETIMES!), not a general moral code. |
| 23:38.17 | Dougie187 | heh yeah i know. |
| 23:38.19 | jasta | Any moral code they do adopt was simply defined by them. |
| 23:38.39 | jasta | So using the argument that a company has rights and taht you morally ought not interfere is laughably ironic |
| 23:39.00 | jasta | The company limits themselves by the law, and so should you. Period. |
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| 23:39.08 | Dougie187 | because saying that you should develop something because some company wasted a lot of money and time into developing the same thing isn't a moral issue. thats just playing the market how you want to. i mean look at microsoft vs. linux. its sort of the same issue. |
| 23:39.33 | Dougie187 | microsoft vs. linux isnt worded well.. but lets say canonical for example. |
| 23:39.36 | romainguy_ | Dougie187: in this case the data doesn't belong to you... |
| 23:39.40 | tomgibara | I'm not quite seeing this in the context of plusminus's problem |
| 23:39.47 | Dougie187 | well what if he created his own data? |
| 23:40.14 | tomgibara | Then that would be fine wouldn't it |
| 23:40.19 | Dougie187 | sure. |
| 23:40.48 | Dougie187 | but also, by developing software that "uses" the data that he doesn't own, he isn't doing anything wrong. the only people who are are the people who actually "use" the data... |
| 23:40.57 | tomgibara | I understand that too |
| 23:41.01 | Dougie187 | though i guess you could technically argue that he had to use it at some point to test it. |
| 23:41.02 | Dougie187 | but still. |
| 23:41.09 | romainguy_ | Dougie187: that's where the moral point gets into play |
| 23:41.12 | jasta | Dougie187: you can't argue that, actually. |
| 23:41.18 | jasta | Dougie187: the alw doesn't permit you to |
| 23:41.31 | Dougie187 | im not saying argue in the legal sense. |
| 23:41.41 | Dougie187 | im saying argue in the "he did it" sense. |
| 23:42.04 | Dougie187 | its not really going to help them "jail" him. but everyone knows he did it.. |
| 23:42.33 | jasta | Personally, I respect the freedoms that US law guarantees. I would never condemn their usage. Ever. |
| 23:42.55 | Dougie187 | Me either. |
| 23:43.49 | Dougie187 | I'll ask a question before i sound ignorant. |
| 23:43.50 | Dougie187 | lol |
| 23:43.57 | jasta | by the way, Lawrence Lessig is my personal hero :P |
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| 23:43.59 | jasta | in case anyone cares |
| 23:44.09 | romainguy_ | that's extraneous ;-) |
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| 23:44.23 | Dougie187 | so for this turn-by-turn direction stuff. it limits software that can be used on android? |
| 23:44.28 | Dougie187 | or just software that can access this data? |
| 23:44.34 | jasta | i would happily refer you all to listen to some of his lectures or read some of his many free publications. pure genius. |
| 23:45.38 | Dougie187 | noone?... ok |
| 23:45.38 | Dougie187 | lol |
| 23:46.04 | xavd | Dougie187: I would think just software that uses this data. If you can get different data that you're allowed to use in this way (or same data with a different license), you should be able to do turn by turn direction on android |
| 23:46.41 | romainguy_ | you could probably go buy a license and do turn by turn :) |
| 23:46.52 | plusminus_ | for 1-2 dollars |
| 23:47.00 | plusminus_ | and some zeros behind |
| 23:47.08 | Dougie187 | lol |
| 23:47.14 | plusminus_ | (finite amount) |
| 23:47.24 | tomgibara | jasta: I'm afraid that I still see a moral dimension to the decision for plusminus to distribute such an app. |
| 23:47.36 | xavd | yeah, I think there's a reason updating maps for gps devices cost 80-100 *per device* |
| 23:47.42 | plusminus_ | \me did not yet decide to do anything |
| 23:47.42 | romainguy_ | tomgibara: which is not incompatible with freedom of speech :) |
| 23:48.32 | Acsia | why not use openstreetmap? |
| 23:48.33 | jasta | tomgibara: I didn't argue that he should ignore the moral dimension. |
| 23:48.56 | plusminus_ | acsia, map data is incomplete |
| 23:49.05 | jasta | I only reminded him that there is no legal dimension as far as the US is concerned. I believe he is German, which IIRC has recently enacted laws which could actually punish him for this. |
| 23:49.11 | Acsia | sure but free and you could help build it up |
| 23:49.14 | Acsia | that s the point |
| 23:49.35 | jasta | I mean, Germany has recently done this :) But I can't confirm that for sure. |
| 23:49.42 | Acsia | similarly, the postcode info in the UK is held by the post office and you have to pay in order to get accurate data |
| 23:49.46 | Acsia | now you have openpostcode |
| 23:49.53 | tomgibara | jasta: Then it was a misunderstanding, because I was only trying to point out that, just because something is legal doesn't mean it's right |
| 23:50.21 | jasta | tomgibara: I think that point can be well appreciated by anyone here. |
| 23:50.48 | Dougie187 | sure. |
| 23:50.52 | jasta | However, please everyone do appreciate that only law has a definition, not morality. |
| 23:50.56 | Dougie187 | but that can be thrown at anyone. |
| 23:51.01 | jasta | So, don't be so presumptuous as to impose youreslf on others :) |
| 23:51.18 | jasta | There are lots of justifiable reasons to violate another man's moral code. |
| 23:51.35 | bitform | haha |
| 23:51.43 | jasta | We all do it daily, I'm sure. |
| 23:51.45 | Dougie187 | yeah and companies do not typically use a moral compass that individuals would appreciate. |
| 23:52.00 | plusminus_ | Acsia: but maybe openstreetmaps are the last solution... |
| 23:52.12 | Acsia | have you checked |
| 23:52.16 | plusminus_ | merging it with live-contribution to opensteetmaps could work |
| 23:52.19 | Acsia | <PROTECTED> |
| 23:52.36 | Dougie187 | plusminus_: it might be worth it just to be able to release your app. |
| 23:52.56 | plusminus_ | but will increase the work to be done by infinity |
| 23:53.02 | plusminus_ | yeah :( |
| 23:53.07 | jasta | tomgibara: the debate on basic freedoms is very important to me, and i try to fan the flames whenever possible, that's all. |
| 23:53.08 | plusminus_ | we'll see |
| 23:53.14 | plusminus_ | 2am got to get some sleep |
| 23:53.21 | tomgibara | I was passing no judgement as to whether it was morally right or not. I did assert that a company has the right to exercise control over its data (with what is "reasonable") |
| 23:53.22 | jasta | tomgibara: especially true in this modern context |
| 23:53.26 | plusminus_ | thx for your comments :) |
| 23:53.27 | plusminus_ | bye |
| 23:53.53 | tomgibara | with -> within |
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| 23:54.33 | jasta | I have personally trampled on quite a few companies' "rights". And I think msot of you have too. Anyone play a DVD on Linux? |
| 23:54.34 | umdk1d3 | openstreet map is mostly just an imported version of TIGER data files in the US |
| 23:54.42 | Dougie187 | lol |
| 23:54.45 | Dougie187 | hells yeah. |
| 23:54.49 | jasta | Or how about used hinted anti-aliased fonts on Linux? |
| 23:55.01 | Dougie187 | ionno about that one. |
| 23:55.05 | jasta | Dougie187: Yes, you have. |
| 23:55.10 | Dougie187 | lol.. used napster when it came out? |
| 23:55.13 | Dougie187 | mr. gnapster. |
| 23:55.27 | jasta | Debian and Ubuntu ignore Apple's patent. Both organization ignore hundreds of software patents at their disgression. |
| 23:55.55 | umdk1d3 | jasta: most of the time they have it there to cover their butts if people go after them |
| 23:55.59 | jasta | Dougie187: Even to produce Gnapster was to step on Napster's "rights". I am not allowed to "steal" their technology from them. |
| 23:56.18 | Dougie187 | lol something i think is 100% "morally" wrong is freaking patent squatters. |
| 23:56.25 | Dougie187 | i hate those guys. |
| 23:57.59 | Dougie187 | though thats similar to domain squatters. |
| 23:58.01 | jasta | Let's put this argument to bed: if any of your decisions are justifed exclusively by law or your sense of morality, you have failed :) |
| 23:58.19 | Dougie187 | <PROTECTED> |
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