| 01:07.04 | *** join/#android Dougie187 (n=doug@c-68-42-59-199.hsd1.fl.comcast.net) |
| 01:07.16 | Dougie187 | Good Evening |
| 01:20.31 | yakischloba | hi |
| 01:20.44 | Dougie187 | hows it going? |
| 01:21.09 | yakischloba | mm alright. Working on a messy project I want to scrap and start over with :/ |
| 01:21.17 | Dougie187 | lol |
| 01:21.19 | Dougie187 | sounds pretty fun. |
| 01:21.26 | yakischloba | yeah no. ;) |
| 01:21.37 | yakischloba | how about you |
| 01:22.29 | Dougie187 | its going good. |
| 01:24.35 | yakischloba | sweet. |
| 01:24.48 | Dougie187 | yeah... |
| 01:24.53 | Dougie187 | not a whole lot going on though. |
| 01:25.04 | yakischloba | chill evening? |
| 01:25.49 | Dougie187 | yeah. |
| 01:25.55 | Dougie187 | just hanging out. |
| 01:26.13 | yakischloba | hmm that can be nice. |
| 01:27.06 | yakischloba | I've got another hour or so. Then I can go home and work on my own stuff. |
| 01:27.08 | Dougie187 | eh its kinda boring. |
| 01:27.10 | Dougie187 | but thats alright. |
| 01:27.11 | Dougie187 | lol |
| 01:27.25 | yakischloba | sounds like you need something to do! |
| 01:28.45 | Dougie187 | well, i have a job. |
| 01:28.46 | Dougie187 | but its boring. |
| 01:28.57 | Dougie187 | lol |
| 01:29.01 | Dougie187 | but i do need something to do. |
| 01:29.05 | yakischloba | yeah so is mine. Hoping to change that soon. |
| 01:29.34 | Dougie187 | heh, mine is just for some extra spending money for now. |
| 01:29.43 | yakischloba | must be nice :) |
| 01:30.17 | Dougie187 | yeah. eh. |
| 01:30.21 | Dougie187 | we'll see. |
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| 01:48.16 | f00f- | lollerskates |
| 01:49.28 | yakischloba | har |
| 02:15.19 | Dougie187 | what about roflcopter? |
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| 02:41.12 | f00f- | it crashed into the failcanyon while doing a lolsurvey |
| 02:48.05 | Dougie187 | thats disappointing for the pilot. |
| 02:48.12 | Dougie187 | i bet he turned into a sad panda |
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| 03:54.41 | yakischloba | Is there a list of submitted apps and their descriptions? (so I know if someone has already developed something?) |
| 03:55.02 | muthu | yakischloba: you mean the 1788 apps? |
| 03:55.06 | yakischloba | yeah. those. |
| 03:55.22 | muthu | some are listed in helloandroid.com |
| 03:55.32 | muthu | some others in anddev.org |
| 04:05.55 | yakischloba | Thanks |
| 04:06.05 | muthu | no official list |
| 04:06.41 | f00f- | yes there is |
| 04:06.51 | muthu | where? |
| 04:06.54 | yakischloba | with descriptions as well? |
| 04:07.30 | f00f- | ttp://code.google.com/android/images/adc1r1_deck.pdf |
| 04:07.33 | f00f- | http://code.google.com/android/images/adc1r1_deck.pdf |
| 04:07.42 | muthu | is that the whole 1788? |
| 04:07.52 | f00f- | yeah |
| 04:08.06 | muthu | cool |
| 04:08.50 | muthu | are you sure? |
| 04:09.19 | f00f- | no |
| 04:09.37 | muthu | hehe |
| 04:09.45 | muthu | its only the 50! |
| 04:09.48 | f00f- | yakischloba: what do you want to do |
| 04:10.34 | yakischloba | for tracking food intake and exercise |
| 04:11.11 | muthu | ha, fitness |
| 04:11.17 | yakischloba | lol |
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| 04:11.34 | yakischloba | we'll see whos laughing you fat slob! |
| 04:11.45 | f00f- | ncie |
| 04:11.46 | f00f- | nice |
| 04:11.53 | yakischloba | Has anyone done that yet? |
| 04:11.54 | muthu | that would be a hit |
| 04:12.04 | muthu | people are fitness crazy everywhere |
| 04:14.30 | yakischloba | I can't find anything. |
| 04:14.36 | muthu | not in top 50 |
| 04:14.47 | muthu | might be in 1788 |
| 04:14.52 | yakischloba | yeah. |
| 04:16.42 | pjz | Anyone got guesses as to what obvious thing I'm overlooking that's making my TextView (modelled on the Lunar Lander example one) not show up ? |
| 04:17.13 | pjz | yesterday I couldn't get events to show up because I'd forgotten to setFocus; I'm hoping it's something like that. |
| 04:18.48 | yakischloba | well thats lame you can't see lol. |
| 04:18.56 | yakischloba | I guess I'll just have to make sure mines best ;) |
| 04:21.28 | muthu | oh yeah |
| 04:21.50 | muthu | get it to the user.. they'll tell you if its best or not ;) |
| 04:23.49 | yakischloba | mmhmm |
| 04:24.13 | muthu | but you need to wait a bit now |
| 04:24.21 | muthu | until the public sdk comes out |
| 04:25.01 | yakischloba | Some people have suggested that I should just start now and revamp it when it comes out |
| 04:26.41 | muthu | yeah, thats a good idea |
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| 04:29.59 | pjz | is it possible to 'overlay' Views? |
| 04:30.26 | pjz | such that there's a transparent one on top, I mean? |
| 04:31.43 | muthu | yeah, there are overlays |
| 04:31.52 | muthu | check the m5 docs |
| 04:33.12 | pjz | is that someting other thant he stuff at code.google.com/android? |
| 04:33.19 | pjz | b/c that's all I know about, docwise |
| 04:52.06 | muthu | http://androidapplications.com/ |
| 04:52.37 | muthu | pjz: m5 is the latest.. which is published in code.google.com/android |
| 05:05.06 | yakischloba | hmm. |
| 05:21.10 | yakischloba | Is it common to use some type of ORM on Android or does everyone just write their own data access junk? |
| 05:54.09 | muthu | no ORM |
| 05:54.14 | muthu | only CP available |
| 05:56.10 | yakischloba | CP? |
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| 07:11.58 | anno^da | http://jbq.livejournal.com/ |
| 07:12.03 | anno^da | interesting blog post |
| 07:12.24 | anno^da | seems like they will release a new SDK not before the launch of the first hardware devices |
| 07:12.36 | muthu | really? |
| 07:13.08 | anno^da | nope it isnt |
| 07:13.20 | anno^da | ah sorry pasted something wrong :) |
| 07:13.39 | muthu | let me read |
| 07:13.42 | anno^da | Yeah in the text he talks about the SDK and the real devices |
| 07:14.02 | anno^da | Any time that we spend preparing an SDK before the final phone software is ready that could have been spent working on the actual phone software introduces additional delays in shipping the phones and the final SDK (since we'll obviously want to have an SDK out that match the shipping devices as closely as possible). |
| 07:14.19 | yakischloba | muthu: so why cant I write a content provider around an ORM or some other kind of persistence? |
| 07:14.53 | muthu | you can |
| 07:15.08 | yakischloba | oh. ok =) |
| 07:15.10 | muthu | if you do, let me know ;) |
| 07:15.17 | yakischloba | hah. Haven't other people? |
| 07:15.31 | muthu | not yet |
| 07:15.40 | anno^da | "...so if we did an SDK right now it still couldn't be used to develop applications for the devices that will ship." |
| 07:15.47 | yakischloba | Why not? seems like dealing with all the SQLite bullshit directly would be a lot of work. |
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| 07:16.04 | muthu | yakischloba: it is.. but no one has the time |
| 07:16.20 | yakischloba | Oh. It seems like it would be easy to do around something like db4o |
| 07:16.24 | muthu | anno^da: hmm interesting |
| 07:16.37 | muthu | yakischloba: yeah should be straightforward |
| 07:16.39 | romainguy__ | anno^da: don't trust jbq, he's French :)) |
| 07:16.52 | muthu | haha |
| 07:17.02 | muthu | like jbq to keep the community engaged |
| 07:17.13 | muthu | romainguy_: you should do the same |
| 07:17.15 | muthu | ;) |
| 07:17.54 | romainguy__ | yeah maybe I should stop answering questions on IRC and just write vague blog posts :) |
| 07:18.26 | muthu | lol |
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| 07:18.42 | anno^da | Why dont they offer this blogpost in the official Blog |
| 07:18.58 | romainguy__ | because it's not official |
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| 07:19.08 | okrjd | hi 2 all |
| 07:19.10 | anno^da | But the specualtion rises |
| 07:19.15 | anno^da | while saying nothing |
| 07:19.19 | okrjd | what is android ? |
| 07:19.37 | muthu | okrjd: welcome |
| 07:19.59 | okrjd | what is android ? |
| 07:20.00 | muthu | android is a mobile os |
| 07:20.09 | muthu | open and free |
| 07:20.44 | muthu | that you can get your hands on soon ;) |
| 07:20.58 | okrjd | is it based on linux ? |
| 07:21.08 | muthu | yes |
| 07:21.46 | okrjd | well |
| 07:22.01 | muthu | http://code.google.com/android |
| 07:22.05 | okrjd | is it allready in release ? |
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| 07:26.46 | okrjd | ok thx muthu |
| 07:26.49 | okrjd | bye |
| 07:26.55 | muthu | bye |
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| 07:30.47 | muthu | what jbq works on? |
| 07:31.38 | romainguy__ | Android :) |
| 07:34.01 | muthu | haha.. true |
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| 08:37.57 | anno^da | Is it possible in Android to get an animation between the activities inside an APK ? |
| 08:38.19 | anno^da | (like the slide, flip and so on animations in the iPhone core animations) |
| 08:43.29 | romainguy__ | yes |
| 08:43.32 | romainguy__ | but you cannot set them yourself |
| 08:47.56 | anno^da | I know the predefined things but they dont work between activities right? |
| 08:48.05 | anno^da | they work only on views |
| 08:48.59 | romainguy__ | no they work between activities |
| 08:50.14 | anno^da | Hmm really ? I knot that they are documanted but all over the google groups discussions you get told that they dont work |
| 08:50.30 | anno^da | knot = know :-) |
| 08:50.39 | romainguy__ | because we don't let applications specify their own animations for 1.0 |
| 08:52.42 | anno^da | That means you wont have flip animations, slide animations between the activities (except the default one) if you have seperated your different screens into activities right ? |
| 08:53.02 | romainguy__ | right |
| 08:53.14 | romainguy__ | but in our experience they mostly slow down the flow |
| 08:54.52 | anno^da | Hmm ok I dont know I really like the flip animation, if I'm switching for example from my application to the settings ob my application. |
| 08:55.45 | anno^da | Or having a slide to the left animation after selecting one picture out of a list. (the list sliding to the left, and the picture sliding in from the right) |
| 08:56.39 | romainguy__ | sorry, not for 1.0 |
| 08:56.51 | romainguy__ | you can do this by changing views inside a single activity |
| 08:57.35 | anno^da | Yeah ok. thats what I thought about a the moment. |
| 08:58.26 | anno^da | Thank your romainguy for clearing that up for me. |
| 09:00.00 | romainguy__ | np |
| 09:01.29 | anno^da | From my point of view having the app and the settings screen inside one activity wouldnt be the right way using the activity approach in the right way. |
| 09:02.04 | anno^da | For the image picking example it is different thats right. |
| 09:12.41 | davidw | animations look good in demos, but ... it's a cell phone with limited batteries, not a desktop with a graphics processor |
| 09:13.53 | anno^da | Thats right. But animations used in the right way can increase usability. |
| 09:14.28 | anno^da | I dont know but the animations in the iPhone dont cost that much battery power. |
| 09:14.41 | romainguy__ | it's not about battery power |
| 09:14.46 | romainguy__ | it's about the time it takes to navigate |
| 09:14.54 | anno^da | Yeah thats right. |
| 09:15.00 | romainguy__ | on my iPhone with firmware 2.0 it's driving me nuts how long it takes to go from one app to another one |
| 09:15.15 | anno^da | You should use them not after every activity |
| 09:15.48 | anno^da | I dont say that the iPhone is the holy grale there but it should be possible to to some of that stuff. |
| 09:16.08 | romainguy__ | we can |
| 09:16.12 | romainguy__ | we just chose not to for now :) |
| 09:16.17 | anno^da | :) |
| 09:16.58 | anno^da | Could you tell me sth about the UIs you've seen from the guys working on the real implementation of the devices :) (probably not :) ) |
| 09:17.35 | romainguy__ | I do work on the real implementation |
| 09:18.36 | anno^da | Fine. Will we see totally different UIs compared to the SDK or what we saw at the IO ? |
| 09:20.30 | romainguy__ | that will depends on the manufacturers and/or carriers |
| 09:20.31 | romainguy__ | -s |
| 09:21.34 | romainguy__ | but I doubt that the first devices will have a (very) different UI |
| 09:22.09 | anno^da | Hmm ok. Will the carriers look down the system in some way or let me say it different: will there be devices that really give you the possibilities of Android. |
| 09:22.33 | davidw | hopes so |
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| 09:36.45 | anno^da | Thats what I meant with "probably not" youre not allowed to speak about that. :) |
| 09:40.42 | romainguy__ | It's just that I don't know what carriers will do with our system :) |
| 09:40.50 | romainguy__ | but I'm confident they won't lock it down |
| 09:44.13 | anno^da | Ah ok just thought that you are working together with the carriers and know some details |
| 09:44.14 | anno^da | :) |
| 09:47.38 | anno^da | Do you know why there are not blog posts in the official blog informing about the developement? (except the ones from Dan Morill and otheres in their own blogs) After reading through the google groups there is much frustration about that. And it wont be taking too much time informing the developers about whats going on. (even if there would be only one post per week) |
| 09:48.41 | anno^da | And even if there isnt much to say just to keep the developers "feel" informed. |
| 09:49.16 | romainguy__ | because we are very busy :) |
| 09:55.28 | anno^da | Ah cmon :). Even small companys with small teams realize it to inform about their projects. (in the open source world) |
| 09:56.07 | anno^da | It cant cost that much to have one person administarting the blog and writting about whats going on :) |
| 09:56.30 | anno^da | administrating .. (sorry for my english) |
| 09:56.31 | romainguy | anno^da: Android is much more complicated that you can imagine |
| 09:56.46 | romainguy | there are reasons why there's not much communication |
| 09:57.01 | anno^da | Yeah sure but it is important to inform about whats going on. Or not? |
| 09:57.06 | romainguy | it is |
| 09:57.08 | romainguy | but |
| 09:57.16 | romainguy | it's not that simple |
| 09:57.24 | romainguy | besides |
| 09:57.37 | romainguy | the end of the year and the first devices is near :) |
| 09:57.42 | romainguy | please be patient :) |
| 09:59.18 | anno^da | Hmm ok I have to believe that. :) But if I look at other companys offering open source software like Cannonical or Mozilla (which from my point of view are complicated projects as well) the communication is much better. |
| 09:59.40 | romainguy__ | the project is not complicated on a technical standpoint |
| 09:59.54 | anno^da | hmm ok thats true. |
| 09:59.57 | romainguy__ | it's complicated because of the number of companies and and persons involved |
| 10:00.04 | romainguy__ | because of partnerships, because of the OHA, etc. |
| 10:00.07 | romainguy__ | Android is not Google's |
| 10:00.15 | romainguy__ | Android is driven by the OHA |
| 10:00.19 | anno^da | Yeah ok I'm trying to understand that. |
| 10:00.22 | romainguy__ | we do not decide to do anything we want |
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| 12:51.15 | okrjd | hi |
| 12:51.39 | okrjd | i got windows mobile phone is it possible to install android ??? |
| 12:52.56 | muthu | not yet |
| 12:53.04 | muthu | you need to wait till android is out |
| 12:53.53 | okrjd | when the release of android ? |
| 12:56.05 | okrjd | if i understand it correctly |
| 12:56.27 | okrjd | right now there is no version of android |
| 12:56.34 | okrjd | to mobile phone |
| 12:56.36 | okrjd | is it ??? |
| 12:58.10 | okrjd | how this personn use http://fr.youtube.com/watch?v=PyxWnIalDcY&eurl=http://code.google.com/android/ ??? |
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| 12:59.59 | okrjd | hello |
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| 13:41.02 | okrjd | ahelo |
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| 13:58.15 | okrjd | hi soulreaper |
| 13:58.25 | soulreaper | hi there |
| 13:58.32 | okrjd | ich bin boot kial oue |
| 13:59.09 | okrjd | ich bin doue oaue sou android |
| 13:59.12 | okrjd | ? |
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| 14:11.55 | Dougie187 | Good Morning everyone. |
| 14:14.29 | Dougie187 | michaelnovakjr__: you around?! |
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| 14:19.40 | anno^da | Good Morning Dougie187 |
| 14:19.50 | Dougie187 | Good morning |
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| 15:21.49 | *** join/#android Dougie188 (n=doug@c-68-42-59-199.hsd1.fl.comcast.net) |
| 15:22.01 | Dougie188 | anyone got any cool plans for this weekend? |
| 15:35.10 | *** join/#android yakischloba (n=jake@c-24-22-170-61.hsd1.mn.comcast.net) |
| 15:41.19 | yakischloba | morning |
| 15:41.33 | Dougie188 | hows it going? |
| 15:42.03 | yakischloba | Good good. Started digging into the docs and learning some stuff last night. I'm excited ;) |
| 15:42.10 | Dougie188 | nice |
| 15:42.12 | Dougie188 | sounds pretty cool |
| 15:42.35 | yakischloba | yeah it looks like a lot of fun |
| 15:43.39 | Dougie188 | working on android stuff? |
| 15:44.02 | yakischloba | uh huh |
| 15:44.06 | Dougie188 | cool |
| 15:44.11 | Dougie188 | you got a project in mind? |
| 15:44.24 | yakischloba | yeah finally. i don't know why it didn't occur to me before. |
| 15:44.31 | Dougie188 | heh |
| 15:44.34 | Dougie188 | what are you working on? |
| 15:44.37 | yakischloba | thats why i'd been procrastinating: lack of an idea |
| 15:45.18 | yakischloba | something to track food intake and other health bs |
| 15:45.38 | Dougie188 | lol other health bs? |
| 15:45.44 | Dougie188 | sounds like its something your really interested in |
| 15:46.21 | yakischloba | I'm a cyclist so this is something that has been annoying for me - there are all kinds of sites and programs online that will do that stuff for you but the bottom line is that you can't sit down at a computer and type something in every time you eat |
| 15:46.36 | Dougie188 | yeah |
| 15:46.47 | Dougie188 | on a cellphone it would be a lot more convenient |
| 15:46.53 | yakischloba | rendering it often very ineffective |
| 15:46.54 | yakischloba | yeah |
| 15:47.59 | yakischloba | it probably won't be the most exciting to build (won't take advantage of all of androids e-mazing stuff) but i'm stoked ;) |
| 15:57.27 | Dougie188 | lol im going to work on something a bit later. |
| 15:57.48 | Dougie188 | it will be pretty sweet though |
| 15:57.59 | Dougie188 | its not going to be completely crazy with androids features either. |
| 15:58.02 | yakischloba | what is it? (secret?) |
| 16:04.22 | Dougie188 | eh, its not secret but i have to go now. |
| 16:04.27 | Dougie188 | so catch me later and ill tell you. |
| 16:04.45 | Dougie188 | ill be back a bit later |
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| 16:39.13 | gambler | wow |
| 16:40.47 | gambler | note to self: tell yakischloba I already wrote his app |
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| 17:07.55 | gambler | hi yakischloba |
| 17:08.03 | yakischloba | hi gambler |
| 17:13.09 | yakischloba | how goes it |
| 17:13.26 | gambler | yakischloba, not bad |
| 17:13.40 | gambler | yakischloba, regarding your food /workout tracking app |
| 17:13.59 | gambler | yakischloba, just though id let you know i wrote something like that for J2ME awhile ago |
| 17:14.14 | gambler | yakischloba, so i have a few ideas on how to improve on the concept if you want to discuss it |
| 17:14.14 | yakischloba | and how did that go |
| 17:14.19 | yakischloba | sure i'd love to |
| 17:15.44 | gambler | yakischloba, it went ok. one issue I had at the time was that the persistence was handled differently on different phones, and it was pre JSR-82 (bluetooth) so it was a minor pain to move the database back to the PC for analysis |
| 17:16.01 | gambler | I did it manually via Nokia file copy each time |
| 17:16.36 | yakischloba | yuck. well I'm figuring it to be more simple for android |
| 17:17.38 | gambler | well connectivity seems like a bit of an open question with android. no BT APIs yet either ...jasta rants about unreleased APIs every few days |
| 17:18.06 | yakischloba | So you're talking about persisting to a computer or something? |
| 17:18.32 | yakischloba | Oh ok I misread |
| 17:18.33 | yakischloba | oops |
| 17:18.49 | gambler | well i always wanted to transfer it back to my PC so I could do up fancy graphs |
| 17:19.06 | yakischloba | I was planning on having a web service to handle that if people wanted to use it on a PC |
| 17:19.16 | yakischloba | I was planning (hoping) to generate graphs on the device |
| 17:20.22 | yakischloba | at least some. obviously you can only fit so much on a screen but I wanted some basic reporting. |
| 17:20.23 | gambler | one of my ideas post-gymbo (gymbo is/was the name of my app) was to turn it more into a generalised diary service for structured data |
| 17:20.38 | yakischloba | hmm. |
| 17:21.05 | gambler | s.t. if you are on the go and dont have time to enter in that you ate steak w/peas and carrots etc etc, you simply snap a photo of your meal |
| 17:21.18 | gambler | and use it as a mnemonic device later |
| 17:21.28 | yakischloba | yeah thats a good one |
| 17:21.44 | gambler | same thing with exercises...I used to do entries like this: |
| 17:21.50 | yakischloba | OCR nutrition labels? hmm. |
| 17:21.59 | gambler | BP 4@30 |
| 17:22.13 | gambler | that meant: Bench Press - 4 reps at 30 kg |
| 17:22.30 | yakischloba | yeah |
| 17:22.58 | gambler | but often you get into situations where its hard to think of a name for an exercise and stuff |
| 17:23.16 | gambler | so the photo again |
| 17:24.16 | gambler | often your own notation can be confusing to yourself for more complex exercises |
| 17:24.22 | yakischloba | yeah |
| 17:24.59 | yakischloba | so did you supply a predefined set of foods with nutritional information? |
| 17:26.10 | gambler | no, i basically memorized abbreviations and then had a tool on my computer to conver them into long form. If It was a new food I would type it out completely and get a prompt when I converted it |
| 17:26.26 | gambler | nowadays you could have a database but at the time that wasnt possible |
| 17:26.31 | gambler | too slow |
| 17:26.37 | yakischloba | yeah. I plan on using a DB |
| 17:27.04 | yakischloba | hopefully synchronizable with a web hosted db that people can use to share foods |
| 17:27.06 | gambler | you really want as much as possible to cut down on the effort people have to go to enter information (eg photos) |
| 17:27.11 | gambler | because otherwise its just too much trouble |
| 17:27.44 | yakischloba | yeah. although someone like myself, for weight loss I pick a handful of foods that I know are going to work and I stick to them |
| 17:27.46 | gambler | also scrolling through hierarchies ...Im not sure thats the best way. |
| 17:28.14 | yakischloba | so I can setup my list of 'favorite' foods and after that its really easy to use |
| 17:29.03 | gambler | yakischloba, start a business selling calorie counted / macronutrient ratio published food tagged with RFID to make your idea really work |
| 17:29.30 | yakischloba | It just so happens that I could, I work for a natural foods distributor =) |
| 17:30.12 | gambler | hmmm maybe we should discuss this in more detail |
| 17:30.31 | yakischloba | That is an interesting long-term prospect heh |
| 17:31.29 | gambler | i think so...if people at them exclusively it would allow for very methodical fitness planning |
| 17:31.48 | yakischloba | mhmm |
| 17:32.03 | yakischloba | being able to define a search criteria for a food and walk through a grocery store with your phone |
| 17:42.03 | yakischloba | k well I gotta get to work but lets talk later |
| 17:42.13 | yakischloba | I'll be in and out |
| 17:42.23 | gambler | cheers |
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| 18:10.51 | Dougie187 | i have returned. |
| 18:12.24 | Dougie187 | yakischloba: you still around? |
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| 18:38.59 | yakischloba | hey Dougie187 |
| 18:39.25 | Dougie187 | hey |
| 18:40.58 | Dougie187 | so, its basically a plan monitor |
| 18:41.15 | Dougie187 | you enter your details, and then it monitors and lets you know when you are close to your limits. |
| 18:41.28 | Dougie187 | and you can set hard limits to make it so you can't go over like you plan minutes or something |
| 18:44.31 | yakischloba | cool |
| 18:44.55 | yakischloba | No one has done that yet? I remember people talking about that a long time ago |
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| 18:46.51 | Dougie187 | ionno |
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