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| 03:54.32 | muthu | good morning |
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| 09:36.23 | alex2308 | question: when i try reading People.NAME, i always get "name" |
| 09:36.43 | alex2308 | guess in real devices i would get contact list names? |
| 09:40.44 | romainguy__ | you mean that People.NAME == "name" ? |
| 09:41.41 | alex2308 | yes |
| 09:41.49 | romainguy__ | er yes that's normal |
| 09:41.59 | romainguy__ | it's just the name of the column in the database |
| 09:42.18 | alex2308 | because i have some contacts in my emulator |
| 09:42.46 | romainguy__ | again, People.NAME is the name of the column in the database |
| 09:42.52 | alex2308 | i just dont get it, how do i get the contact list names |
| 09:43.05 | romainguy__ | you need to make a query to the content provider |
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| 09:43.54 | alex2308 | i get a cursor first (Cursor c = getContentResolver().query(People.CONTENT_URI, null, null, null, null);) right? |
| 09:45.34 | romainguy__ | yes |
| 09:48.19 | alex2308 | its a bit like a sql query and the cursor is lke the resultset, right? |
| 09:48.19 | romainguy | that's correct |
| 09:49.12 | alex2308 | so i tried this http://rafb.net/p/fmBRdl57.html |
| 09:49.23 | alex2308 | reading the results (as string), but all i get is "null" |
| 09:49.44 | romainguy__ | because i is not what you think |
| 09:50.07 | romainguy__ | you first need to do this: |
| 09:50.14 | alex2308 | i thought i made a query to the contact list, and now i could parse through the results |
| 09:50.18 | romainguy__ | int nameIndex = c.getColumnIndex(People.NAME); |
| 09:50.25 | romainguy__ | whiel (c.next()) { |
| 09:50.36 | romainguy__ | <PROTECTED> |
| 09:50.37 | romainguy__ | } |
| 09:50.53 | romainguy__ | the index in getString() is the index of the column in the current row |
| 09:50.58 | romainguy__ | not the index of the row |
| 09:51.35 | alex2308 | oh, i see |
| 09:51.46 | alex2308 | thank you a lot |
| 09:51.52 | alex2308 | i feel pretty stupid now |
| 09:52.05 | romainguy__ | no pb :) |
| 09:54.23 | alex2308 | works -> http://rafb.net/p/RQ3yoo47.html (just in case someone else needs this) |
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| 12:50.26 | alex2308 | another noob question: how do i start an activity from inside another activity |
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| 13:26.09 | michaelnovakjr | startSubActivity |
| 13:26.19 | michaelnovakjr | its an activity method |
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| 13:26.58 | trj | Hi, I'm new to android. I see that there's a screenshot() API call to grab the screen. Is it possible to grab the "root window" and get a screenshot of everything, or can I only screenshot the widgets in my own application? |
| 13:27.01 | trj | http://code.google.com/android/reference/android/view/Surface.html#screenshot() |
| 13:28.04 | michaelnovakjr | its of the screen |
| 13:28.17 | michaelnovakjr | whatever is visible |
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| 13:29.09 | TSchultz55 | hey all....anyone know how the current Android emulator connects to peripherals (ex: webcams) ? |
| 13:29.20 | michaelnovakjr | it doesn't |
| 13:29.21 | TSchultz55 | I see USB is currently not supported |
| 13:29.33 | trj | michaelnovakjr: So, is there an android.view.Surface object which I can grab that represents the root window? |
| 13:29.48 | michaelnovakjr | what do you mean by root window? |
| 13:30.08 | TSchultz55 | michaelnovakjr: did you see the Enkin demo? They somehome hooked up a webcam and GPS to the emulator. |
| 13:30.13 | alex2308 | michaelnovakjr: but how do i create the intent? all i have is activities i'd like to start |
| 13:30.20 | michaelnovakjr | i believe they wrote some code to do that |
| 13:30.28 | TSchultz55 | ah |
| 13:30.29 | trj | michaelnovakjr: I assumed that a Surface is like a canvas I can draw in. If I create a Surface object, is that not what I get? |
| 13:30.46 | TSchultz55 | they need to share the wealth :) |
| 13:31.02 | michaelnovakjr | http://code.google.com/p/android ... TSchultz55 that is what the screenshot call does |
| 13:31.11 | michaelnovakjr | ah shit http://code.google.com/p/five |
| 13:31.17 | michaelnovakjr | ^^ that link |
| 13:31.53 | trj | michaelnovakjr: thanks. |
| 13:31.56 | michaelnovakjr | alex2308: http://code.google.com/android/reference/android/app/Activity.html#startSubActivity(android.content.Intent,%20int) |
| 13:32.06 | michaelnovakjr | that is the method you can start another activity with |
| 13:32.15 | michaelnovakjr | note though however this is not threaded |
| 13:32.47 | alex2308 | i think i get itstart --> SubActivity(new Intent(this, someactivity.class), 0); |
| 13:32.52 | alex2308 | thank you |
| 13:32.59 | michaelnovakjr | no problem |
| 13:33.31 | michaelnovakjr | TSchultz55: soon enough devices will be out that can capture that stuff |
| 13:33.41 | michaelnovakjr | the sdk is too infant for stuff to be set in stone |
| 13:33.52 | michaelnovakjr | i'm taking a break from android because of this |
| 13:34.03 | TSchultz55 | USB support you mean? |
| 13:34.31 | alex2308 | only 3 months until first devices should be shipped |
| 13:34.38 | alex2308 | new SDK will be released soon i guess |
| 13:34.56 | michaelnovakjr | i don't know about three months |
| 13:35.03 | michaelnovakjr | but by the end of the year yes |
| 13:35.17 | michaelnovakjr | TSchultz55: its hard to say... they haven't mentioned anything about it as far as i know |
| 13:35.35 | TSchultz55 | michaelnovakjr: yeah USB or bluetooth support would be HUGE |
| 13:35.36 | alex2308 | rumors say 10/2008 |
| 13:35.49 | michaelnovakjr | alex2308: key word is rumors |
| 13:36.01 | michaelnovakjr | google has said nothing about android being ready in 10/2008 |
| 13:36.27 | michaelnovakjr | and frankly i find that very hard to do... we haven't gotten a clean sdk update since February. |
| 13:36.42 | michaelnovakjr | i'd just stick with end of the year :) |
| 13:36.51 | TSchultz55 | any hints on when the next update will be coming |
| 13:36.59 | michaelnovakjr | nope |
| 13:37.08 | michaelnovakjr | doesn't seem like they even know |
| 13:37.18 | TSchultz55 | hmmm |
| 13:37.19 | TSchultz55 | that |
| 13:37.22 | TSchultz55 | that's a shame |
| 13:37.41 | michaelnovakjr | its a big project with lots of hands in the pot |
| 13:37.49 | michaelnovakjr | it was bound to happen |
| 13:37.52 | TSchultz55 | the whole reason I'm holding out for Android instead of an iPhone is because of the SDK |
| 13:37.57 | michaelnovakjr | once its released it'll be all good |
| 13:38.26 | TSchultz55 | i'm currently holding on to a half broken Razr that took an accidental swim in a glass of scotch recently |
| 13:38.26 | michaelnovakjr | TSchultz55: the iPhone is too restrictive |
| 13:38.43 | michaelnovakjr | i have a developer beta account and its just plain stupid |
| 13:38.45 | TSchultz55 | i need a new mobile really badly |
| 13:38.55 | michaelnovakjr | buy an htc mogul |
| 13:39.03 | michaelnovakjr | then install android on it when its released |
| 13:39.18 | TSchultz55 | hmmmm interesting |
| 13:39.28 | michaelnovakjr | i have one, and i'll be doing the same |
| 13:40.29 | TSchultz55 | yeah I got in a pretty heated argument with an Apple rep about Android vs. iPhone and how their SDK was more of an "after thought" |
| 13:40.37 | michaelnovakjr | yea |
| 13:40.42 | michaelnovakjr | i could see that being the case |
| 13:40.46 | michaelnovakjr | brbr |
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| 13:57.22 | Dougie187 | Good Morning |
| 13:58.14 | alex2308 | i was going for the htc touch diamond, but the mogul is much cheaper as i see |
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| 14:06.26 | michaelnovakjr | i like the mogul |
| 14:06.43 | Dougie188 | from htc? |
| 14:07.00 | michaelnovakjr | yea |
| 14:07.24 | michaelnovakjr | i am using my treo right now, but i'll install android on the mogul when it comes out |
| 14:07.31 | Dougie188 | cool |
| 14:11.27 | TSchultz55 | is there a list of currently "android-ready" phones? |
| 14:11.37 | michaelnovakjr | no |
| 14:12.08 | TSchultz55 | i gotta get rid of this phone |
| 14:12.10 | Dougie188 | noone knows what android will be able to run on. |
| 14:12.11 | Dougie188 | lol |
| 14:12.21 | Dougie188 | though its supposed to run on just about anything. |
| 14:12.26 | michaelnovakjr | itll run on mine :) |
| 14:12.36 | TSchultz55 | my current phone has been Johnny Walker-logged |
| 14:13.34 | Dougie188 | lol |
| 14:13.54 | TSchultz55 | it had an unfortunate run-in with a glass of scotch :) |
| 14:14.00 | Dougie188 | thats no good. |
| 14:14.09 | Dougie188 | especially for a cell phone. |
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| 14:14.25 | TSchultz55 | heh nope |
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| 14:17.37 | michaelnovakjr | muthu is here shhhshhhh |
| 14:17.51 | muthu | whats up? |
| 14:18.01 | muthu | michaelnovakjr: any news? |
| 14:18.02 | michaelnovakjr | nothing |
| 14:18.18 | michaelnovakjr | just being a ballbuster |
| 14:18.24 | Dougie188 | as always. |
| 14:18.25 | Dougie188 | lol |
| 14:18.58 | michaelnovakjr | :) |
| 14:19.06 | muthu | j2me vs android |
| 14:19.10 | muthu | any opinions? |
| 14:19.22 | michaelnovakjr | yea |
| 14:19.25 | michaelnovakjr | android |
| 14:19.46 | michaelnovakjr | the entire j2me code base should be deprecated |
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| 14:27.48 | alex2308 | actually i would code iphone apps |
| 14:28.03 | michaelnovakjr | not really |
| 14:28.10 | alex2308 | if 1) it wouldnt be apple 2) it would be java 3) it would be open |
| 14:28.25 | michaelnovakjr | actually their api is amazingly awesome |
| 14:28.36 | alex2308 | awesome in what way? |
| 14:28.38 | michaelnovakjr | its just that they'll reject your application idea |
| 14:28.43 | michaelnovakjr | dude its objective-c and C |
| 14:28.58 | michaelnovakjr | i wrote full socket networking code in C for the phone |
| 14:29.03 | michaelnovakjr | that is sweet |
| 14:29.14 | michaelnovakjr | its just they have the damn thing so locked tight |
| 14:29.25 | alex2308 | i prefer java just to NOT code http clients from scratch |
| 14:29.48 | michaelnovakjr | who said anything about HTTP |
| 14:29.58 | michaelnovakjr | i was writing TCP client connecting to ssh |
| 14:30.11 | michaelnovakjr | ** i loath java by the way ** |
| 14:30.46 | alex2308 | i dont know, but i think C is very low level |
| 14:30.57 | michaelnovakjr | it is |
| 14:31.01 | michaelnovakjr | and its amazingly fast |
| 14:31.15 | michaelnovakjr | anything you write in java i can write to run in C much faster |
| 14:31.29 | alex2308 | im pretty sure you can |
| 14:31.38 | michaelnovakjr | that's why i like it |
| 14:31.40 | alex2308 | but can you write it faster? ;) |
| 14:31.48 | michaelnovakjr | probably could |
| 14:32.12 | michaelnovakjr | java is not too bad, but it wouldn't certainly be no where near my top pick |
| 14:32.39 | alex2308 | its a bit like saying "anything you write in C i can write to run in ASM faster" |
| 14:32.59 | Dougie188 | javas pretty good in running comparison if you compile to machine code instead of bytecode |
| 14:33.26 | michaelnovakjr | its just a memory hog |
| 14:33.38 | michaelnovakjr | creating objects for every little thing |
| 14:33.39 | alex2308 | from what i read java is faster than c/c++ once the VM is running |
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| 14:33.57 | michaelnovakjr | where did you read that ?? |
| 14:34.09 | alex2308 | benchmarks i googled |
| 14:34.27 | Dougie188 | ive just read that is gets close to the preformance. |
| 14:34.32 | muthu | if you are doing application programming you are better off with java than c |
| 14:34.41 | michaelnovakjr | why muthu? |
| 14:34.49 | muthu | its faster and easier |
| 14:35.01 | michaelnovakjr | i am sure 90% of the software you are using right now is written in C |
| 14:35.13 | alex2308 | app developing is easier/faster |
| 14:35.23 | muthu | michaelnovakjr: that's the point |
| 14:35.30 | michaelnovakjr | ? |
| 14:35.34 | alex2308 | michaelnovakjr: C++ mostly, a lot C and some C# |
| 14:35.50 | Dougie188 | i prefer c and c++ to java any day. |
| 14:35.54 | michaelnovakjr | thank you! |
| 14:36.02 | michaelnovakjr | java is easier is a lame excuse |
| 14:36.04 | Dougie188 | and saying its easier is just a matter of opinion. |
| 14:36.24 | Dougie188 | and faster is relative. |
| 14:36.28 | Dougie188 | for java you need the vm to be running |
| 14:36.37 | michaelnovakjr | its java developers that live in their own world that we have to thank for terrible code! |
| 14:36.48 | Dougie188 | also there are a lot of things that java has as features that slow it down. |
| 14:36.54 | michaelnovakjr | thinking too high level can bring lots of problems |
| 14:37.18 | Dougie188 | granted, i think java is probably a good choice for a first language to learn. but i dont think its a good choice for actual production. |
| 14:37.23 | michaelnovakjr | People person = new People(me); |
| 14:37.29 | michaelnovakjr | that's real hard :) |
| 14:37.33 | Dougie188 | heh |
| 14:37.36 | michaelnovakjr | Dougie188: no! |
| 14:37.38 | Dougie188 | but you can do that in c++ too |
| 14:37.42 | michaelnovakjr | java is a terrible first language |
| 14:37.50 | Dougie188 | eh, i dont think its too difficult. |
| 14:37.58 | Dougie188 | it lets you focus on how to program more. |
| 14:38.01 | michaelnovakjr | its not, but it doesn't help you |
| 14:38.08 | Dougie188 | it handles garbage collection for you. |
| 14:38.11 | Dougie188 | and a lot of other things. |
| 14:38.23 | Dougie188 | then once you get into the mindset of coding more, you can start doing c or c++ |
| 14:38.29 | alex2308 | i think C is a decent first language |
| 14:38.30 | michaelnovakjr | i learned C first, and C data structures which help you understand how to efficiently program with object oriented design |
| 14:38.35 | alex2308 | its much more logical |
| 14:38.42 | Dougie188 | i learned c first. |
| 14:38.43 | alex2308 | java is too complex for beginners |
| 14:38.46 | Dougie188 | but java data structures. |
| 14:38.50 | michaelnovakjr | java is not complex |
| 14:38.50 | Dougie188 | then to c data structures. |
| 14:38.57 | michaelnovakjr | java is watered down logic |
| 14:39.00 | Dougie188 | java is not complex at all. |
| 14:39.07 | Dougie188 | c is way more complex, with pointers for one. |
| 14:39.19 | Dougie188 | those are probably the hardest thing for beginners to wrap their minds around. |
| 14:39.39 | michaelnovakjr | and c variations, which i have found to be many! |
| 14:39.56 | michaelnovakjr | GNU C is different from standard C which is different from VS C |
| 14:40.05 | Dougie188 | lol |
| 14:40.09 | Dougie188 | VS C is crap though. |
| 14:40.19 | Dougie188 | you shouldnt even compare that one. |
| 14:40.21 | michaelnovakjr | it uses different types |
| 14:40.27 | Dougie188 | its for programers who dont program. |
| 14:40.29 | michaelnovakjr | ssize_t is a ptrdiff_t |
| 14:40.44 | michaelnovakjr | static inline is static __inline |
| 14:40.52 | michaelnovakjr | its more annoying than anything |
| 14:41.02 | Dougie188 | very much so., |
| 14:41.04 | michaelnovakjr | it doesn't have inttypes which can be frustrating |
| 14:41.17 | michaelnovakjr | can't tell what your intmax is |
| 14:41.25 | michaelnovakjr | if its long or long long |
| 14:41.38 | michaelnovakjr | but in VS 2008 they at least support long long |
| 14:41.48 | Dougie188 | java has a lot of stuff thats really irritating. |
| 14:41.54 | michaelnovakjr | oh yea |
| 14:42.03 | Dougie188 | personally i think printing to files quite a bit more difficult in java then in c |
| 14:42.04 | Dougie188 | lol |
| 14:42.07 | michaelnovakjr | i could go on and on about have to instantiate objects that should be static |
| 14:42.10 | alex2308 | but it is very popular in india *lol* |
| 14:42.15 | Dougie188 | be it formatted or binary. |
| 14:42.23 | Dougie188 | alex2308: again, thats not an argument. |
| 14:42.28 | michaelnovakjr | hahahahahahhahahaha |
| 14:42.33 | Dougie188 | lol i dont think that helps your case any. |
| 14:42.41 | michaelnovakjr | nope |
| 14:43.05 | alex2308 | yes, sahib. you are right, sahib. |
| 14:43.19 | Dougie188 | ... |
| 14:43.33 | alex2308 | heh, im sorry |
| 14:44.49 | muthu | java is popular everywhere |
| 14:45.01 | michaelnovakjr | java sucks! |
| 14:46.26 | muthu | what's the next one? |
| 14:47.19 | Dougie188 | the next one what? |
| 14:47.55 | muthu | the replacement for java? |
| 14:48.01 | michaelnovakjr | C |
| 14:48.05 | michaelnovakjr | what more do you need |
| 14:48.23 | muthu | rest my case! |
| 14:48.37 | michaelnovakjr | what are you talking about? |
| 14:49.01 | muthu | michaelnovakjr: C is good |
| 14:49.05 | muthu | no one argues that |
| 14:49.12 | muthu | but move on |
| 14:49.21 | michaelnovakjr | you said java was better.... |
| 14:49.24 | michaelnovakjr | you make no sense/ |
| 14:49.43 | muthu | where were you the last 10 years? |
| 14:50.13 | michaelnovakjr | have you written any computer software before? |
| 14:50.29 | muthu | if you are doing application programming you are better off with java than c |
| 14:50.33 | muthu | that's what i said |
| 14:50.53 | michaelnovakjr | yes, and that is not true |
| 14:51.26 | michaelnovakjr | what linux software is written in java? what mac software? windows event? |
| 14:51.35 | michaelnovakjr | most computer software is not written in java |
| 14:51.35 | Dougie188 | muthu: your only reason for saying that was that its faster and easier. |
| 14:51.41 | Dougie188 | but you dont have any reason for saying its faster. |
| 14:51.45 | Dougie188 | and easier is a matter of opinion |
| 14:51.46 | michaelnovakjr | or easier |
| 14:52.01 | michaelnovakjr | easier in the sense you don't know programming logic and only know java? |
| 14:52.24 | Dougie188 | lol i think python is used more then java. |
| 14:52.44 | michaelnovakjr | haha yea |
| 14:54.28 | Dougie188 | lol. even android isnt written in java. |
| 14:54.42 | michaelnovakjr | that's true |
| 14:55.10 | Dougie188 | they just gave us a java api. |
| 14:56.04 | anno^da | and why let me count from 3 down :D |
| 14:56.20 | michaelnovakjr | ? |
| 14:56.23 | Dougie188 | lol |
| 14:56.24 | Dougie188 | ? |
| 14:57.21 | anno^da | they just gave us a java api. <- why? It is so easy why.:) |
| 14:58.08 | Dougie188 | if java is so easy. why didnt they write android in java? |
| 14:58.27 | Dougie188 | i think they gave us a java api, because it gives them more control, but thats just speculation. |
| 14:58.41 | anno^da | Thats not true. |
| 14:59.15 | Dougie188 | and again, saying java is easier then c is all opinion. |
| 14:59.22 | anno^da | If they open up the system below the java layer and they will that can't be an arguement any more |
| 14:59.36 | michaelnovakjr | they wont entirely |
| 14:59.38 | *** join/#android matt_c (n=mcroydon@gozur.sunflowerbroadband.com) |
| 14:59.38 | Dougie188 | yeah, below the java layer. |
| 14:59.42 | Dougie188 | but still. |
| 14:59.44 | michaelnovakjr | that has already been said |
| 14:59.55 | michaelnovakjr | the whole layer will not be open |
| 14:59.58 | anno^da | From my point of view the Java API will not be the last for Android |
| 15:00.08 | michaelnovakjr | ? |
| 15:00.09 | Dougie188 | the last what? |
| 15:00.23 | anno^da | Dalvik is not to meant running only java -> dex compiled code |
| 15:00.35 | Dougie188 | i dont get your point. |
| 15:01.03 | anno^da | From my point of view Java is only their entry point for the devlopers. |
| 15:01.59 | Dougie188 | and from my point of view. doing that, gives them more control over the system. |
| 15:02.02 | anno^da | I don't think that Java will be the only language you can write apps in for Android. (in a long term view) |
| 15:02.36 | michaelnovakjr | why would they want to support multiple apis? |
| 15:02.38 | Dougie188 | well, we'll see. |
| 15:02.58 | Dougie188 | does anyone else support multiple apis? |
| 15:03.03 | anno^da | Why should they say every home developer can take the system and throw away all the Google stuff out of the system and then close the system down? |
| 15:03.04 | muthu | anno^da: good points |
| 15:03.10 | anno^da | (they said that at the IO) |
| 15:03.31 | michaelnovakjr | because its open source |
| 15:03.32 | Dougie188 | what does that have to do with apis? |
| 15:03.37 | michaelnovakjr | nothing at all |
| 15:04.09 | Dougie188 | lol, man if only jasta were here. |
| 15:04.19 | michaelnovakjr | haha |
| 15:04.57 | anno^da | Why should they want to support multiple APIs? Cmon thats easy. It makes the plattform more attractive thats all. |
| 15:05.17 | Dougie188 | lol they can barely support one api |
| 15:05.22 | michaelnovakjr | haha |
| 15:05.25 | Dougie188 | and they were complaining about how hard it would be to maintain branches. |
| 15:05.32 | michaelnovakjr | yep |
| 15:05.33 | Dougie188 | and you think they are going to bring up a whole new api? |
| 15:05.42 | michaelnovakjr | they chose NDA over branching.... i mean come on |
| 15:05.51 | anno^da | TODAY |
| 15:05.51 | anno^da | ! |
| 15:05.58 | anno^da | but not after open sourcing it |
| 15:06.01 | Dougie188 | lol |
| 15:06.03 | michaelnovakjr | haha |
| 15:06.09 | michaelnovakjr | what does open source have to do with it? |
| 15:06.13 | Dougie188 | i think after open sourcing they are going to leave a lot of the development up to the community. |
| 15:06.21 | michaelnovakjr | yes |
| 15:06.31 | michaelnovakjr | which means Google won't write a different api |
| 15:06.38 | michaelnovakjr | someone else might, but not Google |
| 15:06.46 | Dougie188 | yeah |
| 15:06.50 | anno^da | and what is so wrong about letting the community work ? |
| 15:06.54 | Dougie188 | after they open source it they have no reason to write a new api |
| 15:06.59 | Dougie188 | nothing anno^da |
| 15:07.02 | Dougie188 | we support that completely |
| 15:07.05 | Dougie188 | thats open source. |
| 15:07.14 | Dougie188 | just google is most likely not going to create a new api to support. |
| 15:07.21 | michaelnovakjr | but it also has nothing to do with Google and/or the providers |
| 15:07.26 | muthu | a C api might come soon for android |
| 15:07.29 | Dougie188 | after its open sourced they wont have any reason to make a new api |
| 15:07.50 | michaelnovakjr | muthu, they can't even maintain a Java one... what makes you think a C one would get completed? |
| 15:07.58 | Dougie188 | lol. well michaelnovakjr he is in the NDA. |
| 15:08.04 | Dougie188 | he might just be spilling the beans. |
| 15:08.19 | michaelnovakjr | maybe NDA folks don't understand the concept of branching |
| 15:08.25 | anno^da | Even if the dont offer a second API, what could be better than an open system being backed up by Google ? |
| 15:08.42 | Dougie188 | anno^da: i think your off topic. |
| 15:08.47 | michaelnovakjr | a completely open system backed by google |
| 15:08.48 | Dougie188 | thats not even relavent to the discussion we are having. |
| 15:09.23 | Dougie188 | we just dont think google has any reason to create a new api to support until its open sourced. |
| 15:09.44 | Dougie188 | and after its open sourced. some community members might create a new api. but i would bet they wouldnt waste their time on that. |
| 15:09.56 | michaelnovakjr | probably not |
| 15:09.59 | Dougie188 | it creates little to no benefit for the platform or community |
| 15:10.00 | anno^da | I've never said that they will support some new API before open sourcing it ... |
| 15:10.09 | Dougie188 | even after open sourcing it. |
| 15:10.19 | Dougie188 | after open sourcing it google has less incentive to create it |
| 15:10.48 | michaelnovakjr | **again** not everything is going to be open source |
| 15:10.54 | michaelnovakjr | there will be some pieces missing |
| 15:11.08 | jasta | raises an eyebrow |
| 15:11.12 | Dougie188 | heh there he is. |
| 15:11.25 | Dougie188 | hey jasta, what do you think is a better language? |
| 15:11.29 | Dougie188 | C or Java? |
| 15:11.31 | michaelnovakjr | java is way easier |
| 15:11.34 | alex2308 | java |
| 15:11.45 | Dougie188 | and faster apparently. |
| 15:11.45 | michaelnovakjr | C is a better language |
| 15:12.01 | jasta | better isn't a word you can appropriately apply in this context. |
| 15:12.08 | Dougie188 | lol |
| 15:12.11 | Dougie188 | well which do you prefer. |
| 15:12.14 | jasta | it is semantically bankrupt |
| 15:12.15 | Dougie188 | and what are your reasons. |
| 15:12.17 | anno^da | thank you jasta |
| 15:12.23 | michaelnovakjr | haha |
| 15:12.24 | alex2308 | he meant "its easier to confuse someone using weird pointers in C than java" |
| 15:12.29 | Dougie188 | anno^da: you were saying java was better! |
| 15:12.43 | michaelnovakjr | Dougie188: some people are afraid to think |
| 15:12.43 | anno^da | No I'm not saying that. |
| 15:12.52 | jasta | Dougie188: i don't have a preference, for there is no reason to. |
| 15:12.57 | michaelnovakjr | weird pointers !?! |
| 15:12.59 | Dougie188 | omg. i think the language barrier is frustrating me. |
| 15:12.59 | Dougie188 | lol |
| 15:13.05 | jasta | i don't prefer a hammer over a screwdriver, i just use them as they fit. |
| 15:13.08 | michaelnovakjr | its friggin memory dude! |
| 15:13.21 | Dougie188 | id rather use a hammer then a screw driver any day. |
| 15:13.41 | Dougie188 | and there is reason to have a preference. |
| 15:13.46 | Dougie188 | preference doesnt imply thats all you use. |
| 15:13.57 | jasta | in the last year, for example, i have mixed using Java and C on my project. My server is in C because that made sense for various reasons. My client is in Java because that is what Android uses. |
| 15:13.58 | Dougie188 | that just implies that you have some opinion on the options provided to you. |
| 15:13.58 | michaelnovakjr | i use java far more than i'd like to |
| 15:14.09 | Dougie188 | if you were given a java and a c api, which would you choose? |
| 15:14.30 | jasta | i would choose the most appropriate API, which doesn't depend on language. |
| 15:14.34 | Dougie188 | jasta: yes, but if you had a choice, would your android thing be in c or java? |
| 15:14.41 | Dougie188 | lol.. |
| 15:14.48 | Dougie188 | your just trying to dodge the question. |
| 15:14.51 | jasta | i think Android makes a lot of sense to be in Java, and i agree with their decision to use it. |
| 15:15.01 | anno^da | hihi |
| 15:15.07 | michaelnovakjr | what about java on android makes sense? |
| 15:15.16 | anno^da | It goes in the wrong direction Dougie188 meant to get it :D |
| 15:15.19 | michaelnovakjr | what features does it provide that benefit from java than c? |
| 15:16.26 | michaelnovakjr | and then there was silence |
| 15:16.47 | Dougie188 | lol. |
| 15:16.54 | jasta | michaelnovakjr: from Google's perspective, languages with object-orienated features in the syntax and structure of the language make it easier to implement UI toolkits, as they are one of the best examples of object-oriented programming. |
| 15:18.01 | michaelnovakjr | keyword: easier |
| 15:18.06 | michaelnovakjr | i won't argue that |
| 15:18.30 | michaelnovakjr | but it also feeds incompetent programmers |
| 15:18.33 | jasta | from the developer's perspective, Java provides great expressive power in areas that the platform demands: threading, application-layer networking, etc. |
| 15:18.36 | michaelnovakjr | who write inefficient code |
| 15:18.59 | anno^da | michaelnovakjr: So what. OSX coder also write unefficient code ... |
| 15:19.00 | michaelnovakjr | i absolutely hate GC and don't see why developers can't manage their own memory |
| 15:19.07 | michaelnovakjr | anno^da: ??? |
| 15:19.34 | jasta | michaelnovakjr: Many studies have shown that a very efficient GC implementation can outperform lazy programmers |
| 15:19.43 | jasta | and programmers are lazy in the common case :) |
| 15:19.54 | anno^da | The only thing why you are against the JAVA Api is the point that you dont have (from your point of view) talented coders. |
| 15:19.56 | michaelnovakjr | jasta, yes unfortunately |
| 15:20.12 | michaelnovakjr | anno^da: ? |
| 15:20.19 | michaelnovakjr | what does that have to do with os x? |
| 15:20.39 | anno^da | cause you gave the example of the iPhone SDK |
| 15:20.40 | jasta | I do agree with the comment about talent, however. There are much different communities that surround the two languages. |
| 15:21.02 | michaelnovakjr | the iPhone SDK is a great SDK |
| 15:21.07 | jasta | And in general, the Java community has different habits which won't translate well to mobile development. |
| 15:21.10 | michaelnovakjr | its just completely locked down |
| 15:21.12 | Dougie188 | im not even against the java api, thats not what started this whole conversation at all. i just said in my opinion, i like C more then java. |
| 15:21.19 | michaelnovakjr | and it doesn't force you to use GC, its an option |
| 15:21.25 | Dougie188 | then we got into the api conversation by me stating that android isnt even written in java. |
| 15:21.48 | jasta | Dougie188: it's hard for me to say i "like" C more, but i do feel more comfortable using it, and have a longer history of using it. |
| 15:22.26 | Dougie188 | jasta: based on your previous outbursts of outspokenness, it shouldnt be difficult to state which language you prefer. |
| 15:22.40 | jasta | hmm? |
| 15:22.47 | Dougie188 | its not a question of which language you think is more useful. |
| 15:22.48 | Dougie188 | or better even. |
| 15:22.51 | Dougie188 | just which do you prefer. |
| 15:22.53 | michaelnovakjr | you answered his question from before |
| 15:23.18 | jasta | well do realize that i have only known Java for 6 months. |
| 15:23.27 | Dougie188 | similar to the hammer vs. screwdriver question. You use which ever one you need to when you need to, but that doesnt say which you prefer at all. |
| 15:23.31 | michaelnovakjr | lucky you :) |
| 15:23.31 | jasta | my opinion of the language is subject to change ;) |
| 15:23.34 | Dougie188 | and you can prefer something and not use it. |
| 15:23.47 | Dougie188 | that doesnt matter though, what is your opinion right now. |
| 15:23.58 | Dougie188 | in 10 years it might be different, but thats why its an opinion. |
| 15:24.03 | jasta | well, if you really want to change the nature of the discussion to simply illogical preference |
| 15:24.06 | jasta | then i will say i prefer Perl |
| 15:24.09 | jasta | because it's wacky and fun :) |
| 15:24.12 | Dougie188 | lol |
| 15:24.22 | michaelnovakjr | haha, definitely wacky :) |
| 15:24.31 | Dougie188 | thats not a choice in this multiple choice question. |
| 15:24.33 | jasta | you get to chuckle quietly to yourself as you imagine the next developer after you trying to maintain your code |
| 15:24.36 | Dougie188 | so circle a different answer. |
| 15:25.11 | jasta | Dougie188: well, i already gave you sufficient information to tell which one i would prefer. my point is that it isn't really a useful thing to know about me. |
| 15:25.28 | Dougie188 | but thats what this whole conversation is about. |
| 15:25.32 | Dougie188 | what we prefer and why. |
| 15:25.38 | jasta | knowing which language i prefer doesn't help you understand anything about hwich language i will choose or support. |
| 15:25.49 | Dougie188 | though, some people simply say, java is better because its faster and easier, but they never give a reason why. |
| 15:26.07 | jasta | well, anyone who says x is better than y is being a fool. |
| 15:26.23 | jasta | better is a dangerous word, to be used sparingly. it is better for engineers to remove it from their vocabulary. |
| 15:26.43 | Dougie188 | well i agree that better is a dangerous word, unless you preface it with "in my opinion" |
| 15:26.48 | Dougie188 | then its not dangerous at all. |
| 15:27.01 | jasta | if you preface it with "in my opinion", then it becomes even worse. |
| 15:27.24 | Dougie188 | lol. i dont think so at all. then you imply it is your preference. |
| 15:27.30 | jasta | better implies fact, but it offers none. |
| 15:27.40 | Dougie188 | on its own it does. |
| 15:27.44 | Dougie188 | and thats the problem with it, |
| 15:27.51 | jasta | it's like saying in my opinion, the population of Nebraska is 1 million. |
| 15:27.52 | Dougie188 | but with it being an opinion it doesnt, |
| 15:28.03 | Dougie188 | lol no its not. |
| 15:28.04 | jasta | it doesn't sound like a sensible comment, because the population of Nebraska is not subject to an opinion. |
| 15:28.05 | anno^da | :D |
| 15:28.26 | jasta | neither then is C or Java being better than the other subject to my opinion. |
| 15:28.33 | Dougie188 | your now taking in my opinion and just showing me a poor way to use that phrase. |
| 15:28.36 | jasta | This is why the word is dangerous and should not be used :) |
| 15:29.07 | Dougie188 | C and Java being better in an opinion is simply stating your preference. and that is not dangerous at all. |
| 15:29.17 | jasta | It doesn't convey an appropriate meaning. Nobody knows what you're talking about when you say something like Java is better than C. |
| 15:29.29 | Dougie188 | if someone counteracts you with facts stating why your opinion is wrong, then your opinion might change. |
| 15:29.41 | Dougie188 | but having an opinion about something like that is not dangerous in itself. |
| 15:29.51 | jasta | opinions can't be wrong, Dougie. only facts from which opinions are derived can be. |
| 15:30.03 | Dougie188 | i know this. |
| 15:30.05 | zhobbs_ | the question is flawed because it depends on the situation |
| 15:30.15 | Dougie188 | omg. no it doesnt. |
| 15:30.23 | Dougie188 | the question does not depend on the situation. |
| 15:30.33 | jasta | You are unlikely to convince me on this topic. Better does not belong in any discussion of opinion. |
| 15:30.34 | zhobbs_ | for android I prefer java |
| 15:30.42 | zhobbs_ | for pic microcontrollers I prefer C |
| 15:30.48 | Dougie188 | the question that would depend on a situation would be "Which language would you code a program for android in?" |
| 15:30.58 | Dougie188 | thats based on a situation. |
| 15:31.09 | jasta | that question is also easier to answer. I like that Java was the choice there. |
| 15:31.10 | Dougie188 | or "What language do you use to code programs?" |
| 15:31.14 | Dougie188 | that depends on the situation too. |
| 15:31.24 | Dougie188 | Thats not the question im asking. |
| 15:31.36 | Dougie188 | the question im asking is. "Which language do you prefer to code in?" |
| 15:31.54 | *** join/#android borism_ (n=boris@195-50-204-145-dsl.krw.estpak.ee) |
| 15:31.55 | Dougie188 | and that implies "If you had your choice of any language for any situation, which language would you choose." |
| 15:31.56 | jasta | bbl, work |
| 15:31.57 | anno^da | jasta: Please say "I like C more than everything else" and everything will be fine ;) |
| 15:32.13 | zhobbs_ | I have no preference |
| 15:32.19 | zhobbs_ | choose the best for the job |
| 15:32.20 | Dougie188 | anno^da: i dont even care if he says he likes java more then c. |
| 15:32.29 | Dougie188 | thats ridiculous. |
| 15:32.32 | jasta | anno^da: I do know C very well, at least ;) |
| 15:32.54 | Dougie188 | anno^da: i just wanted him to answer the question now. lol he just keeps dodging it. |
| 15:32.56 | *** join/#android morrildl (n=chatzill@nat/google/x-2185dda44672a0bb) |
| 15:33.03 | Dougie188 | though i can draw a conclusion from his answers thus far. |
| 15:33.16 | zhobbs_ | he's always said he likes C |
| 15:33.20 | jasta | you can conclude that i'm probably the only person in this channel who has read both C89 and C99, and K&R :) |
| 15:33.23 | Dougie188 | i know. |
| 15:33.26 | morrildl | Dougie188: who are you? |
| 15:33.31 | Dougie188 | thats why i made some comments earlier. |
| 15:33.39 | Dougie188 | morrildl: what do you mean? |
| 15:33.39 | morrildl | And what have you done with Dougie187? |
| 15:33.48 | Dougie188 | lol. i ate his connection. |
| 15:33.53 | Dougie188 | after he logged in using a vpn. |
| 15:33.57 | morrildl | ;) |
| 15:33.59 | Dougie188 | and then disconnected without closing irc. |
| 15:34.04 | Dougie188 | so i stole this name. |
| 15:34.13 | Dougie188 | sort of. |
| 15:34.24 | michaelnovakjr | jasta i did too |
| 15:35.00 | Dougie188 | morrildl: who are you? |
| 15:35.15 | morrildl | Dougie188: I am some schmuck who managed to identify to nickserv as morrildl |
| 15:35.24 | Dougie188 | thats cool. |
| 15:35.36 | Dougie188 | sounds like a pretty awesome thing to do actually. |
| 15:35.41 | Dougie188 | ill have to try that next time. |
| 15:40.07 | Dougie188 | so everyone go some awesome plans for july 4th? |
| 15:40.16 | Dougie188 | minus the foreigners. |
| 15:41.24 | muthu | Dougie188: what's your jul 4 plan? |
| 15:41.51 | Dougie188 | i will probably end up playing a variety of blizzard games including diablo 2, and then helping my wife paint our bedroom. |
| 15:42.03 | muthu | cool |
| 15:42.04 | Dougie188 | possibly go to the local park and watch some fireworks as well |
| 15:42.10 | muthu | yeah, fireworks |
| 15:42.18 | Dougie188 | nothing all that great though |
| 15:57.51 | Dougie188 | found diablo 2 cdkeys for $5.85 a set (orig/exp) if anyone wants the link lemme know. |
| 16:02.26 | Dougie188 | btw, michaelnovakjr |
| 16:02.37 | michaelnovakjr | what's up |
| 16:02.48 | Dougie188 | lenovo has a 12% cash back sale right now until the 9th with fatwallet. |
| 16:02.58 | Dougie188 | they also have a coupon for 5% off T series laptops. |
| 16:03.05 | michaelnovakjr | nice... what's fatwallet? |
| 16:03.08 | Dougie188 | hopefully on the 6th they will come out with an R series coupon. |
| 16:03.10 | Dougie188 | a deal site. |
| 16:03.18 | michaelnovakjr | nice |
| 16:03.19 | alex2308 | you need d2 keys? |
| 16:03.21 | michaelnovakjr | got a link? |
| 16:03.29 | Dougie188 | www.fatwallet.com |
| 16:03.41 | michaelnovakjr | ah easy enough :) |
| 16:03.41 | Dougie188 | you have to go through their link |
| 16:03.48 | Dougie188 | but i just priced a sweet T series. |
| 16:03.52 | Dougie188 | one sec ill get you a total |
| 16:03.56 | michaelnovakjr | how much? |
| 16:03.58 | michaelnovakjr | oh cool? |
| 16:04.02 | michaelnovakjr | - ? |
| 16:04.04 | michaelnovakjr | :) |
| 16:04.25 | Dougie188 | total 955.95 after cash back. |
| 16:04.32 | michaelnovakjr | damn |
| 16:04.36 | michaelnovakjr | what are the specs? |
| 16:04.36 | Dougie188 | only bad part is you have to wait for the cash back. |
| 16:04.39 | Dougie188 | and you have to pay taxes on it. |
| 16:04.49 | michaelnovakjr | how much is the cashback? |
| 16:05.17 | *** join/#android yakischloba (n=jake@c-24-22-170-61.hsd1.wa.comcast.net) |
| 16:05.42 | *** join/#android Dougie187 (n=doug@wg-d232050.dsl.fsu.edu) |
| 16:05.47 | Dougie187 | lol that probably wasnt the best idea. |
| 16:05.48 | Dougie187 | lol |
| 16:05.51 | Dougie187 | here ill pm you the stuff |
| 16:05.55 | Dougie187 | and cashback is 12% |
| 16:06.02 | michaelnovakjr | haha |
| 16:06.02 | Dougie187 | so thats 88% of what you have to pay taxes on. |
| 16:06.11 | Dougie187 | total before cashback is 1086.31 |
| 16:06.18 | Dougie187 | ill pm you specs. |
| 16:06.23 | michaelnovakjr | cool, thanks |
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| 16:15.21 | jasta | yawn |
| 16:18.45 | yakischloba | that storm was out of hand |
| 16:18.51 | michaelnovakjr | ? |
| 16:18.53 | yakischloba | i got about 2 hours of sleep all night |
| 16:18.53 | jasta | yakischloba: yeah no kidding |
| 16:19.02 | jasta | i was up setting up a tent in greenwater! |
| 16:19.07 | yakischloba | I'm considering calling into work, I'm completely exhausted |
| 16:19.09 | yakischloba | haha |
| 16:19.23 | jasta | we're going camping this weekend (ewather is supposed to even out by Friday) |
| 16:19.30 | jasta | so i went up and staked out a primitive site last night |
| 16:20.23 | yakischloba | jeez |
| 16:20.54 | jasta | weather report says friday is supposed to be warm and maybe rainy, dry at night |
| 16:20.57 | jasta | then saturday is supposed to be nice |
| 16:21.00 | yakischloba | when I first woke up at about 2am there was just this insane thunder that lasted for 30 seconds or so |
| 16:21.02 | jasta | so i think itll work out |
| 16:21.07 | yakischloba | I had no idea what it was, I thought the world was coming to an end |
| 16:21.35 | yakischloba | bleh. today's bike race will no doubt be canceled. this has been such a useless spring around here ;( |
| 16:23.23 | yakischloba | btw I started learning Java yesterday. It seems to be coming pretty easily. |
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| 16:28.08 | krosaen | if you are already experienced programming in other languages, this book is good for getting up to speed on java |
| 16:28.09 | krosaen | http://www.amazon.com/Java-Precisely-2nd-Peter-Sestoft/dp/0262693259 |
| 16:28.36 | krosaen | i.e doesn't waste time teaching basic programming concepts |
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| 16:55.28 | yakischloba | krosaen: just ruby :( |
| 16:55.50 | michaelnovakjr | i wouldn't call programming basics a waste of time |
| 16:56.04 | michaelnovakjr | its stuff like that we have to thank for bad code :) |
| 16:56.52 | yakischloba | krosaen: so far I've just read the little bit of stuff here http://java.sun.com/docs/books/tutorial |
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| 17:05.52 | yakischloba | Is there another language you could say java is most similar to? |
| 17:06.10 | michaelnovakjr | not really |
| 17:06.16 | yakischloba | i didn't figure so |
| 17:06.21 | yakischloba | seems pretty different |
| 17:06.23 | michaelnovakjr | its an object oriented language |
| 17:06.30 | michaelnovakjr | are you familiar with oo |
| 17:06.39 | yakischloba | yes, ruby is oo ;) |
| 17:06.57 | michaelnovakjr | ruby doesn't count :) |
| 17:07.05 | michaelnovakjr | i don't consider it a real language |
| 17:07.10 | yakischloba | well |
| 17:07.19 | yakischloba | for the purpose of understand OO, it counts |
| 17:07.20 | michaelnovakjr | theres literally no syntax |
| 17:07.31 | yakischloba | yeah its spectacular :) |
| 17:07.40 | michaelnovakjr | haha, that's not a good thing |
| 17:07.52 | michaelnovakjr | i would look at java application design as well |
| 17:08.04 | yakischloba | yeah I'm coming to find that out, at least transitioning back to a more 'strict' language like java |
| 17:08.08 | michaelnovakjr | that way you have an understanding of efficient java programming |
| 17:08.37 | michaelnovakjr | creating objects carelessly is fun for no one |
| 17:09.29 | yakischloba | crazy stuff like that the size of an array is fixed after being instantiated and that a methods argument types must be explicitly stated |
| 17:09.48 | michaelnovakjr | there's different types |
| 17:10.09 | michaelnovakjr | vectors and hashtables don't have a fixed length and will reallocate to allow new objects |
| 17:10.25 | yakischloba | sweet. I haven't gotten there yet. whew. I thought I was toasted ;) |
| 17:10.50 | michaelnovakjr | there's a difference between vectors and hashtabless in terms of usage |
| 17:10.59 | michaelnovakjr | that's where the application design comes in |
| 17:11.10 | michaelnovakjr | when and where to use the various data types and objects |
| 17:11.45 | yakischloba | mmhmm. |
| 17:12.21 | yakischloba | well I'm mildly intimidated but not as much as I anticipated |
| 17:12.30 | romainguy__ | Java is a pretty simple language |
| 17:12.53 | michaelnovakjr | ye |
| 17:12.54 | michaelnovakjr | s |
| 17:13.06 | michaelnovakjr | but follows some different programming patterns than one might be used to |
| 17:13.27 | romainguy | if you come from languages like Ruby sure |
| 17:13.35 | yakischloba | I'm assuming the OO thing is often the hardest bit to grasp, but I think I have a good handle on it despite michaelnovakjr's doubts ;) |
| 17:13.42 | romainguy | but if you come from more "traditional" languages, then it's pretty much the same |
| 17:13.45 | michaelnovakjr | even some other oo languages |
| 17:14.08 | michaelnovakjr | i just hate ruby and the guy(s) who created it |
| 17:14.26 | yakischloba | you're not alone, thats for sure. |
| 17:14.28 | krosaen | i think java is pretty easy coming from c++ |
| 17:14.32 | romainguy__ | yeah I never liked Ruby either |
| 17:14.49 | romainguy__ | that said when I tried to learn it there was pretty much only japanes docs available, that didn't help :) |
| 17:15.26 | krosaen | python is my dynamic lang of choice for now |
| 17:15.41 | michaelnovakjr | python power! |
| 17:15.43 | romainguy__ | krosaen: as if you had a choice at Google ;-) |
| 17:15.55 | krosaen | heh, well i could use javascript |
| 17:16.51 | krosaen | i'd love to have more time to play with scala too, seems really interesting at first inspection |
| 17:17.31 | krosaen | anyone try out scala on android? |
| 17:17.32 | krosaen | http://www.scala-lang.org/downloads/targets/android.html |
| 17:17.54 | romainguy | maybe Dick Wall has tried |
| 17:18.17 | krosaen | yeah, he's in love with scala |
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| 17:31.42 | Dougie187 | im back |
| 17:32.15 | michaelnovakjr | what's up |
| 17:32.20 | Dougie187 | not too much |
| 17:32.25 | Dougie187 | you get to check out those laptops? |
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| 17:33.11 | michaelnovakjr | not ye |
| 17:33.11 | michaelnovakjr | t |
| 17:33.27 | michaelnovakjr | in a few... gotta finish this ridiculous path test at work |
| 17:33.34 | Dougie187 | heh |
| 17:34.59 | Dougie187 | im going to wait until monday to look at getting one myself. |
| 17:36.21 | michaelnovakjr | not bad |
| 17:36.59 | Dougie187 | monday they should come out with coupons, hopefully better then 5% |
| 17:37.27 | michaelnovakjr | i think i'll wait then too |
| 17:39.13 | Dougie187 | yeah, i hope they are better then 5% at least. |
| 17:39.27 | Dougie187 | either way though, this deal is better then employee pricing. |
| 17:39.51 | michaelnovakjr | :) |
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| 19:02.59 | Dougie187 | anyone look into this? |
| 19:03.00 | Dougie187 | http://labs.mozilla.com/contests/extendfirefox3/ |
| 19:03.05 | Dougie187 | its a bit out of the mobile realm |
| 19:03.07 | Dougie187 | but still |
| 19:04.41 | f00f- | not yet |
| 19:04.49 | f00f- | i need help on a ListActivity |
| 19:05.02 | f00f- | i setContentView to a layout containin @+id/list as my ListView |
| 19:05.30 | f00f- | but it still errs out and says: Caused by: java.lang.RuntimeException: Your content must have a ListView whose id attribute is 'android.R.id.list' |
| 19:06.36 | romainguy__ | it's @id:android/list |
| 19:06.44 | f00f- | no plus? |
| 19:06.50 | romainguy__ | you are using com.whatever.your.app.package.is.R.id.list |
| 19:06.56 | romainguy__ | a + is used to create an id |
| 19:07.02 | f00f- | oh gotcha |
| 19:07.03 | romainguy__ | no need to create it if it already exists |
| 19:08.50 | f00f- | ugh, i hate X windows |
| 19:08.55 | romainguy__ | yes |
| 19:08.58 | romainguy__ | it's a POS :) |
| 19:09.05 | f00f- | i accidentally ctrl-alt-backspace'd |
| 19:09.08 | f00f- | well |
| 19:09.16 | f00f- | i hit ctrl-alt which switches the keyboard layout |
| 19:09.24 | f00f- | and then i hit backspace, and apparently it was within some 'window' |
| 19:11.13 | f00f- | wellit liked android:id instead |
| 19:11.27 | romainguy__ | ah yes |
| 19:11.29 | romainguy__ | sorry for the typo |
| 19:12.07 | f00f- | np, this shuold be fun, getting to work on UI again |
| 19:12.38 | jasta | Dougie187: i like the puzzle pieces |
| 19:13.08 | Dougie187 | ? |
| 19:19.54 | jasta | in that firefox link you sent |
| 19:19.57 | jasta | the puzzle pieces look cute ;) |
| 19:20.11 | Dougie187 | oh |
| 19:20.12 | Dougie187 | lol |
| 19:20.12 | Dougie187 | yeah |
| 19:20.18 | jasta | anyway, bbl, heading home |
| 19:20.21 | jasta | easy half day today :) |
| 19:20.22 | Dougie187 | you can win a mac laptop if you make a thing tonight! |
| 19:20.23 | Dougie187 | heh |
| 19:20.31 | Dougie187 | see ya in a bit. |
| 19:22.03 | zer0her0 | what sort of thing? and which laptop? |
| 19:23.51 | Dougie187 | for firefox. |
| 19:23.57 | Dougie187 | either a powerbook or a mac book air |
| 19:28.09 | zer0her0 | macbook pro i hope you mean ;) |
| 19:28.18 | Dougie187 | sure. |
| 19:28.20 | zer0her0 | mmmm an air would be nice. |
| 19:28.24 | Dougie187 | same thing, just older generation. |
| 19:29.01 | zer0her0 | i know |
| 19:29.19 | zer0her0 | i'm just saying winning a powerbook vs a macbook pro is pretty big difference |
| 19:30.04 | Dougie187 | sure. |
| 19:30.11 | Dougie187 | id go for the pro though. |
| 19:32.02 | zer0her0 | already have a pro hehe |
| 19:32.38 | Dougie187 | lol |
| 19:32.42 | Dougie187 | i dont want an air |
| 19:33.03 | romainguy__ | I want an air ^^ |
| 19:37.53 | michaelnovakjr | i don't want an air |
| 19:37.57 | michaelnovakjr | i want a dvd drive |
| 19:38.17 | zer0her0 | optical media is dead |
| 19:38.26 | Dougie187 | lol |
| 19:38.29 | Dougie187 | tell that to sony. |
| 19:38.30 | michaelnovakjr | haha not really |
| 19:38.47 | Dougie187 | and console game developers. |
| 19:38.57 | Dougie187 | or console developers for that matter. |
| 19:38.59 | zer0her0 | looks at the success of PSN and XBLA |
| 19:39.02 | f00f- | it's pretty dead for notebooks |
| 19:39.08 | michaelnovakjr | and OS installs |
| 19:39.17 | zer0her0 | looks at iTunes and Amazon unboxed |
| 19:39.27 | Dougie187 | XBLA vs. Xbox360 games? |
| 19:39.40 | zer0her0 | well i listed PSN first for a reason |
| 19:39.40 | zer0her0 | ;) |
| 19:39.41 | Dougie187 | XBLA games are junk compared to ones you get from the store. |
| 19:39.44 | Dougie187 | lol |
| 19:39.49 | Dougie187 | i havent tried the PSN games. |
| 19:39.58 | Dougie187 | but XBLA games suck for the most part. |
| 19:40.17 | zer0her0 | define suck? |
| 19:40.42 | Dougie187 | not worth the time to play them. |
| 19:40.54 | zer0her0 | for you maybe |
| 19:40.56 | Dougie187 | there are a couple that are decent. |
| 19:41.04 | Dougie187 | but not many keep your attention for the long haul. |
| 19:41.10 | Dougie187 | like halo 3 for instance. |
| 19:41.12 | Dougie187 | or CoD4 |
| 19:41.38 | Dougie187 | you get games like Geometry wars (which has become a franchise of sorts) and N which is just a remake of a flash game. |
| 19:41.40 | zer0her0 | um halo 3 didn't keep my attention, CoD4 did |
| 19:41.49 | Dougie187 | either way, one of the two did. |
| 19:41.54 | Dougie187 | and probably for quite a while. |
| 19:42.04 | zer0her0 | the top PSN releases are also Blu-Ray releases |
| 19:42.28 | zer0her0 | and XBLA is the way it is cause of the fact of the 360 core |
| 19:42.36 | zer0her0 | needs a memory card or HDD |
| 19:43.18 | Dougie187 | what about bluray movies? |
| 19:43.59 | zer0her0 | eh |
| 19:44.02 | zer0her0 | just a matter of time |
| 19:44.11 | Dougie187 | lol, by that time something new will be out. |
| 19:44.41 | zer0her0 | something new...as in DL service...and the people will finally have caught up with the future that is now |
| 19:44.45 | Dougie187 | granted, i think optical media are an obsolete way of backing up data. but i think they still have a use. |
| 19:50.35 | yakischloba | should I wait for the new android SDK to start learning it? |
| 19:50.43 | Dougie187 | i am |
| 19:51.04 | romainguy__ | things have not changed that much |
| 19:51.06 | romainguy__ | since M5 |
| 19:51.15 | yakischloba | hmm. |
| 19:51.53 | Dougie187 | whats all the press saying that it will take a significant overhaul to bring code up to snuff for the new SDKs? |
| 19:52.25 | romainguy__ | people who haven't even seen the new SDKs |
| 19:52.31 | romainguy__ | you can ask f00f- |
| 19:52.34 | romainguy__ | there were changes |
| 19:52.40 | Dougie187 | but it was quotes from the Weather Channel group. |
| 19:52.52 | romainguy__ | but we mostly renamed things, not completely changed everything |
| 19:54.01 | f00f- | yeah mostly renames and cleaning up things |
| 19:54.07 | f00f- | didn't really take that long to migrate |
| 19:55.18 | f00f- | yay for XML layouts :) |
| 19:55.41 | f00f- | i am removing the last code-based layout right now ;) |
| 19:55.43 | yakischloba | i think I'll wait anyway, get up to speed on Java. |
| 19:55.59 | yakischloba | As far as speculated release of the SDK, is it like...weeks, months? |
| 19:56.21 | romainguy__ | before the handsets launch |
| 19:56.29 | Dougie187 | heh |
| 19:56.37 | Dougie187 | we have heard that the hope is at least a month before handset launch. |
| 19:56.38 | yakischloba | yeah nice and vague |
| 19:56.43 | romainguy__ | so according to public information, it would be between now and the end of the year :) |
| 19:56.45 | Dougie187 | and handset launch is supposed to be by the end of the year. |
| 19:56.51 | yakischloba | yeah |
| 19:56.53 | yakischloba | I figured as much |
| 19:56.53 | Dougie187 | so based on those, between now and the end of november. |
| 19:57.13 | romainguy__ | eh, we're working hard on making things work :) |
| 19:58.03 | yakischloba | I guess I'd be a little behind the curve if I waited until immediately preceding handset release |
| 19:58.04 | yakischloba | sigh |
| 20:03.09 | anno^da_ | By the way the FIC Neo Freeruner is out for sale. (for the Open Source guys here) |
| 20:03.10 | anno^da_ | http://www.openmoko.com/product.html |
| 20:05.22 | spykid | # GPRS (2.5G not EDGE) |
| 20:06.41 | anno^da_ | Yeah I know. It is interesting for developers with low level experience at the moment. |
| 20:07.11 | anno^da_ | Everything is open source even the CAD models of the case :) |
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| 21:37.46 | zhobbs | http://developer.sprint.com/instinct/ |
| 21:38.48 | zhobbs | everyone's doing it |
| 21:39.27 | f00f- | :D |
| 21:39.43 | f00f- | is that on Titan ? |
| 21:39.45 | f00f- | or still Java ME |
| 21:40.07 | zhobbs | dunno |
| 21:40.15 | f00f- | havent seen any titan devices out yet |
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| 23:16.08 | morrildl | Explosives laced with heavy metals detonated in an urban area. Any other day of the year, they call this a terrorist attack. |
| 23:16.24 | morrildl | But tomorrow, we call them "fireworks" |
| 23:16.31 | duey | tomororw? |
| 23:16.38 | morrildl | 4 July |
| 23:16.42 | duey | aren't fireworks in november? |
| 23:16.48 | morrildl | maybe in the UK |
| 23:16.51 | duey | oh right |
| 23:17.10 | morrildl | eyes duey |
| 23:17.15 | morrildl | what are you, a Briton? |
| 23:17.36 | duey | na, NZ but similar I guess |
| 23:17.40 | morrildl | ah, okay |
| 23:17.50 | duey | commonwealth |
| 23:17.59 | morrildl | 4 July is the day we celebrate telling the UK to go get stuffed ;) |
| 23:18.09 | duey | traitors |
| 23:18.14 | morrildl | Apparently. |
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| 23:33.43 | Bery11ium | yay, no work tomorrow for me ... (I traded July 1st for July 4th) |
| 23:36.30 | zer0her0 | Bery11ium: did you use to be a big BeOS fan? |