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| 12:17.17 | Dougie187 | Good Morning Everyone |
| 12:17.25 | cutmasta | huhu Dougie187 |
| 12:17.36 | cutmasta | you survived the hurricane |
| 12:17.37 | cutmasta | great |
| 12:17.38 | Dougie187 | hows it going in germany? |
| 12:17.39 | cutmasta | ;) |
| 12:17.44 | Dougie187 | lol |
| 12:17.49 | cutmasta | Dougie187, even hotter than last day |
| 12:18.07 | Dougie187 | thats no good. |
| 12:18.27 | cutmasta | 88.0 °F |
| 12:18.49 | Dougie187 | thats not very hot. |
| 12:20.11 | cutmasta | sure, 100 is more |
| 12:20.19 | Dougie187 | yup |
| 12:20.21 | cutmasta | but 88 in shadow |
| 12:20.23 | cutmasta | is hot |
| 12:20.28 | Dougie187 | thats how hot it is where my brother lives. |
| 12:20.29 | cutmasta | without any breeze |
| 12:20.30 | Dougie187 | like 110 |
| 12:20.37 | cutmasta | where does he live? |
| 12:20.41 | Dougie187 | Vegas |
| 12:20.46 | cutmasta | ok |
| 12:21.05 | cutmasta | the highest temp i felt was in brazil |
| 12:21.07 | Dougie187 | its probably going to be about 95 here. |
| 12:21.08 | cutmasta | some years ago |
| 12:21.08 | Dougie187 | lol |
| 12:21.11 | Dougie187 | i could see that |
| 12:21.54 | cutmasta | :) |
| 12:21.58 | Dougie187 | for those who want one, you can get an N810 for $360 now on buy.com |
| 12:22.48 | Dougie187 | i think thats one that people have run android on. |
| 12:23.07 | cutmasta | cool |
| 12:23.24 | cutmasta | 360$ is not much euro :) |
| 12:24.35 | Dougie187 | true. |
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| 13:56.16 | michaelnovakjr | look what zdnet is running today |
| 13:56.18 | michaelnovakjr | http://blogs.zdnet.com/careers/?p=108 |
| 13:56.29 | michaelnovakjr | is there truth behind that googlers? |
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| 14:56.20 | alex2308 | hello world |
| 14:58.06 | Dougie187 | jola |
| 15:02.45 | michaelnovakjr | yola |
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| 15:04.14 | michaelnovakjr | what's up Dougie187 |
| 15:04.43 | Dougie187 | not too much |
| 15:04.44 | Dougie187 | you? |
| 15:06.38 | michaelnovakjr | eh, working with visual studio for the first time in quite a few years |
| 15:07.09 | Dougie187 | heh |
| 15:07.14 | Dougie187 | why not just use eclipse? |
| 15:07.25 | michaelnovakjr | i hate eclipse |
| 15:07.59 | Dougie187 | but you like visual studio? |
| 15:08.13 | michaelnovakjr | its not the worst thing in the world |
| 15:08.24 | michaelnovakjr | i'm just having a pain in the ass linker error |
| 15:09.15 | michaelnovakjr | an undefined symbol that is defined just a few lines up :) |
| 15:09.43 | Dougie187 | lol. |
| 15:10.44 | Dougie187 | i start my job on monday. |
| 15:10.48 | michaelnovakjr | the only thing i can think of is that its used in a #define, but declared as an extern unsigned char |
| 15:10.50 | michaelnovakjr | nice |
| 15:11.09 | michaelnovakjr | but then i remember ::linker:: which means its been compiled :) |
| 15:11.21 | Dougie187 | lol |
| 15:11.40 | Dougie187 | i take it your using c? |
| 15:11.43 | michaelnovakjr | yep |
| 15:11.57 | Dougie187 | are you trying to use visual studio's debugger? |
| 15:12.24 | alex2308 | uhm |
| 15:12.34 | alex2308 | you talking about VS and C in here? |
| 15:12.40 | Dougie187 | right now yes. |
| 15:12.41 | alex2308 | i thought android is eclipse/java |
| 15:12.57 | Dougie187 | later we will be discussion various cheeses, and their applications on toast as crackers. |
| 15:13.09 | Dougie187 | android rarely gets discussed in here now-a-days |
| 15:13.09 | michaelnovakjr | alex2308: if you haven't noticed android has nothing going on right no |
| 15:13.11 | alex2308 | printf("nm. i dont care"); |
| 15:13.27 | michaelnovakjr | without a new sdk no one is writing software for android |
| 15:13.30 | alex2308 | im working on my first android app :) |
| 15:13.35 | Dougie187 | just look out. |
| 15:13.41 | Dougie187 | its going to be out dated in a little while |
| 15:13.45 | Dougie187 | you will have to re-write it. |
| 15:13.49 | michaelnovakjr | because when the new sdk comes you'll be rewriting it :) |
| 15:13.51 | alex2308 | i hope not too much |
| 15:14.02 | michaelnovakjr | significantly out-dated |
| 15:14.11 | Dougie187 | well, we dont actually know how much, but according to what we have read it will be quite a bit. |
| 15:14.13 | Dougie187 | if not all of it. |
| 15:14.17 | jasta | yawn |
| 15:14.19 | michaelnovakjr | hence why i am working on C code :) |
| 15:14.25 | Dougie187 | they are changing it from java to c++ |
| 15:14.27 | Dougie187 | and then for F90 |
| 15:14.31 | michaelnovakjr | haha |
| 15:14.31 | Dougie187 | then to* |
| 15:14.43 | Dougie187 | i bet jasta would enjoy that. |
| 15:14.43 | michaelnovakjr | na, but really... its going to be quite out-dated |
| 15:14.46 | Dougie187 | if they did F90 |
| 15:14.52 | jasta | what's F90? |
| 15:14.58 | Dougie187 | android? |
| 15:15.03 | jasta | huh? |
| 15:15.06 | Dougie187 | or do you mean literally what is f90? |
| 15:15.08 | alex2308 | i'd do iphone apps, if i'd like apple |
| 15:15.15 | jasta | oh Fortran |
| 15:15.17 | Dougie187 | yeah |
| 15:15.19 | Dougie187 | fortran 90. |
| 15:15.20 | jasta | dude, that was way before my time ;) |
| 15:15.23 | Dougie187 | lol |
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| 15:15.29 | Dougie187 | what about F2003? |
| 15:15.31 | Dougie187 | or F77/. |
| 15:15.35 | Dougie187 | dont you know either of those? |
| 15:15.40 | jasta | of course not |
| 15:15.42 | Dougie187 | hah |
| 15:15.46 | Dougie187 | i know F77 |
| 15:15.53 | Dougie187 | and F90, though i know F77 better then F90 |
| 15:15.58 | Dougie187 | stupid modules. |
| 15:16.01 | jasta | C was basically my first language |
| 15:16.06 | Dougie187 | that was mine too. |
| 15:16.08 | Dougie187 | and then Java |
| 15:16.09 | Dougie187 | and then C++ |
| 15:16.12 | Dougie187 | and then F77 |
| 15:16.14 | Dougie187 | and then F90 |
| 15:16.15 | Dougie187 | lol |
| 15:16.28 | alex2308 | pascal was mine |
| 15:16.29 | alex2308 | no, wait |
| 15:16.31 | jasta | i learned BASIC first, but that was just a phase ;) |
| 15:16.32 | alex2308 | qbasic! |
| 15:16.41 | michaelnovakjr | i didn't bother with basic |
| 15:17.12 | alex2308 | http://youtube.com/watch?v=Mal6XbN5cEg |
| 15:17.14 | Dougie187 | we took this class on OOP. and we had to read these articles on the languages and their benefits, then we got to the section of doing OOP with F90, and it basically said "Don't Do it, this language is complete garbage" |
| 15:17.21 | alex2308 | pretty qbasic song |
| 15:17.30 | michaelnovakjr | Dougie187: why go through fortran after learning C++? |
| 15:17.44 | Dougie187 | because a lot of scientists have legacy code in F77 |
| 15:17.48 | michaelnovakjr | ah |
| 15:17.49 | Dougie187 | so we have to learn it so we can read it. |
| 15:17.51 | michaelnovakjr | good point |
| 15:18.22 | michaelnovakjr | i'm going to kill this linker error if its the last thing i do |
| 15:18.27 | Dougie187 | lol |
| 15:18.27 | michaelnovakjr | (probably will be) |
| 15:20.05 | Dougie187 | you should... not use visual studio. |
| 15:20.30 | Dougie187 | i got irritated with it when it wasnt compatible with gcc. |
| 15:21.50 | michaelnovakjr | its a windows project |
| 15:21.59 | Dougie187 | i guess, when i found out that it wasnt compatible with gcc. |
| 15:22.00 | Dougie187 | lol |
| 15:22.04 | michaelnovakjr | it doesn't use GNU C |
| 15:22.08 | Dougie187 | wlel. |
| 15:22.10 | Dougie187 | well. |
| 15:22.11 | Dougie187 | windows sucks. |
| 15:22.13 | Dougie187 | so ha. |
| 15:22.15 | jasta | yeah, isnt that obvious to you? :) |
| 15:22.22 | Dougie187 | nope. |
| 15:22.37 | michaelnovakjr | not having GNU C isn't too much of a hurdle |
| 15:23.07 | michaelnovakjr | it still has standard c ::cough:: ::cough:: |
| 15:23.21 | jasta | actually, it doesn't. |
| 15:23.27 | jasta | it violates the standard heavily |
| 15:23.35 | michaelnovakjr | hence the coughing |
| 15:23.51 | Dougie187 | lol your coughing to the wrong group of people michaelnovakjr. |
| 15:23.53 | jasta | especially, it is incompatible with C99, implementing functionality that it has but with different semantics |
| 15:23.55 | michaelnovakjr | haha |
| 15:23.56 | Dougie187 | we can hear right through your cough. |
| 15:23.59 | jasta | and microsoft doesnt intend to ever fix it |
| 15:24.08 | michaelnovakjr | yea, i love that |
| 15:24.22 | Dougie187 | i have to sign an NDA for my work. |
| 15:24.23 | Dougie187 | lol |
| 15:24.31 | jasta | i was having this conversation just the other day... |
| 15:24.34 | michaelnovakjr | i have an extern unsigned char that is used in a compiler define and the linker is throwing an unresolved symbol error |
| 15:24.52 | jasta | i think we're entering an age here where folks can imagine a world without Microsoft. |
| 15:25.00 | anno^da | haha android got ported to the n810 now easier to install |
| 15:25.04 | Dougie187 | <----- this guy can. |
| 15:25.13 | michaelnovakjr | <---------- this guy too |
| 15:25.21 | Dougie187 | you can buy an N810 for $360 on buy.com right now. |
| 15:25.25 | jasta | i mean truly, not just for yourself personally. |
| 15:25.42 | anno^da | Dougie187: and send it to germany :D |
| 15:25.49 | jasta | people are starting to see how Microsoft's offerings are not as compelling and necessary as they once were |
| 15:26.01 | jasta | the last big hurdle, i think, is Outlook and Exchange. |
| 15:26.03 | michaelnovakjr | because people have better alternatives now |
| 15:26.10 | michaelnovakjr | jasta, zimbra!! |
| 15:26.11 | anno^da | No it has no gsm hardware so it is not really interesting |
| 15:26.14 | Dougie187 | i wish we would get better thing like one note. |
| 15:26.28 | Dougie187 | not that i need it anymore. |
| 15:26.41 | Dougie187 | but onenote is seriously like the coolest thing they have ever made... |
| 15:26.55 | michaelnovakjr | i thought internet explorer was? |
| 15:26.59 | Dougie187 | ... |
| 15:27.04 | Dougie187 | i should shoot you. |
| 15:27.04 | michaelnovakjr | =) |
| 15:27.13 | Dougie187 | you sound like my dad. |
| 15:27.20 | michaelnovakjr | i saw the opportunity and took it |
| 15:27.23 | michaelnovakjr | :) |
| 15:27.27 | michaelnovakjr | i hate IE with a passion |
| 15:27.33 | Dougie187 | hah, i was thinking the other day about technology, and how it changes over the years. |
| 15:27.47 | Dougie187 | and how when i was little i use to think my dad and granddad knew everything about computers. |
| 15:27.54 | michaelnovakjr | i love the concept of "super standards mode" when its really just the standards they have chosen to ignore |
| 15:27.59 | Dougie187 | and then maybe a month ago my dad was looking for backup software like ghost. and so he went shopping. |
| 15:28.21 | Dougie187 | and he chose the software based on which one had the highest version, and which one had a sticker saying "Best of..." on it. |
| 15:28.30 | Dougie187 | then hes like, you know it has to be good, they have gone through 10 versions! |
| 15:29.11 | Dougie187 | that was when i knew he didnt know anything about computers. |
| 15:29.25 | Dougie187 | and when he had to ask my mom (computer moron) to set the jumpers right on his harddrive. |
| 15:29.37 | michaelnovakjr | haha |
| 15:30.19 | Dougie187 | brb |
| 15:30.19 | michaelnovakjr | anyone see this? |
| 15:30.20 | michaelnovakjr | http://blogs.zdnet.com/careers/?p=108 |
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| 15:31.08 | anno^da | Yeah but thats nothing new |
| 15:31.42 | anno^da | Every big company has thousands and thousands of little, less paid, not very interesting jobs |
| 15:32.48 | michaelnovakjr | they also mention programmers at the bottom |
| 15:34.06 | anno^da | and the lack of carreer developement depends on what goals you have for the future. |
| 15:34.20 | michaelnovakjr | not necessarily |
| 15:34.25 | anno^da | The job is not everything I would say but thats just my point. |
| 15:35.44 | michaelnovakjr | if its a dead end job it doesn't matter how good you are at it |
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| 15:37.03 | anno^da | Yeah ok thats an argument. |
| 15:40.16 | Dougie187 | i have returned. |
| 15:40.31 | Dougie187 | so michaelnovakjr did you have a moment when you found out your parents knew nothing about technology? |
| 15:40.50 | michaelnovakjr | when they bought a compaq |
| 15:40.54 | Dougie187 | hah |
| 15:41.12 | Dougie187 | i like when they try to advise me what laptop to buy |
| 15:41.28 | Dougie187 | and they are like, "you shouldn't spend $1000 on a laptop when you can get one for $400!" |
| 15:41.38 | Dougie187 | but they dont know the difference in the laptops, or what i need with a laptop. |
| 15:41.39 | romainguy | I disagree :) |
| 15:41.51 | Dougie187 | lol to what? |
| 15:41.58 | Dougie187 | or with what i should say. |
| 15:42.00 | michaelnovakjr | the article probable |
| 15:42.02 | romainguy | $1000 to $400 |
| 15:42.03 | michaelnovakjr | y |
| 15:42.06 | michaelnovakjr | ah |
| 15:42.10 | Dougie187 | oh yeah, i disagree with that too. |
| 15:42.13 | romainguy | in my experience, expensive laptops are much better :) |
| 15:42.15 | michaelnovakjr | i'd say spend a thousand |
| 15:42.30 | romainguy | I'd rather buy an expensive laptop every three years than change a cheap one every year :p |
| 15:42.44 | Dougie187 | the $400 laptop has little to no L2 cache, the processor is probably a single core 2 ghz. hdd is probably 4200rpm with like 60 gigs. |
| 15:43.02 | Dougie187 | it depends on your use though. |
| 15:43.04 | michaelnovakjr | i killed the damn error!!!!! |
| 15:43.14 | Dougie187 | if you just browse the web all the time, it doesnt matter about any of that stuff. |
| 15:43.32 | jasta | romainguy: i buy in the $1000 ballpark and replace it every 2 years. |
| 15:43.36 | michaelnovakjr | apparently with the VS C compiler you have to declare a variable locally before using extern on it |
| 15:43.45 | jasta | and it has served me great |
| 15:43.50 | Dougie187 | thats because VS blows michaelnovakjr. |
| 15:43.54 | michaelnovakjr | :) |
| 15:44.04 | Dougie187 | this laptop cost me $1400 3 years ago. |
| 15:44.07 | Dougie187 | and its been working great so far. |
| 15:44.34 | Dougie187 | im looking more for a nice portable performance laptop now. |
| 15:44.40 | Dougie187 | because i program a lot more then i use to. |
| 15:44.55 | Dougie187 | i use to just play games and take notes with my laptop, which is why i got a tablet. |
| 15:44.57 | michaelnovakjr | me too |
| 15:45.07 | Dougie187 | granted, right now all im doing is playing games. |
| 15:45.11 | Dougie187 | but come the end of august. |
| 15:45.12 | michaelnovakjr | i like the 13" xps |
| 15:45.16 | jasta | i typically don't go for portability |
| 15:45.19 | Dougie187 | yeah its pretty sweet |
| 15:45.20 | jasta | i prefer large screen size |
| 15:45.25 | Dougie187 | im going more for performance then portablilty. |
| 15:45.28 | michaelnovakjr | i priced it at $1400 |
| 15:45.36 | Dougie187 | but im gonna get a 14.1" thinkpad r61 |
| 15:45.44 | tethridge | dells seem to get really flimsy as they age |
| 15:45.47 | michaelnovakjr | Dougie187: how much are those going for? |
| 15:45.49 | yakischloba | *yawn* |
| 15:45.56 | tethridge | the thinkpad would be my choice |
| 15:46.01 | Dougie187 | i think i priced my ideal one at about 800-900 |
| 15:46.07 | tethridge | very strudy |
| 15:46.08 | Dougie187 | thats with discrete graphics too |
| 15:46.15 | tethridge | sturdy |
| 15:46.29 | yakischloba | I'm getting tired of working on a laptop all day :( |
| 15:46.39 | tethridge | for a thinkpad or an ideapad? |
| 15:46.44 | Dougie187 | for a thinkpad. |
| 15:46.52 | Dougie187 | ideapads are like 1500 - 1800 |
| 15:46.52 | michaelnovakjr | that is a good price...? |
| 15:46.59 | Dougie187 | something ridiculous. |
| 15:47.00 | tethridge | you can get it preinstalled with linux and save a few bucks |
| 15:47.05 | michaelnovakjr | any thinkpad i priced is way over 900 |
| 15:47.07 | Dougie187 | not with a discrete graphics card. |
| 15:47.32 | Dougie187 | afaik you can't get a thinkpad with linux and discrete graphics. |
| 15:47.38 | Dougie187 | it might be cheaper come the 6th. |
| 15:47.39 | jasta | michaelnovakjr: we buy thinkpads for work and we usually get them around $1000 excluding office and some other business accessories we buy |
| 15:48.02 | michaelnovakjr | interesting |
| 15:48.09 | michaelnovakjr | i still have a t30 thats kicking |
| 15:48.10 | tethridge | I bought my wife a thinkpad about 3 years ago and it's still going strong |
| 15:48.16 | tethridge | it's a t42 |
| 15:48.22 | Dougie187 | i might spend a bit more on it though. |
| 15:48.25 | michaelnovakjr | a bit newer |
| 15:48.27 | Dougie187 | for the extra cache. |
| 15:48.33 | michaelnovakjr | mine is a pentium m 2.0 |
| 15:48.36 | Dougie187 | especially if they have coupons and more cash back out by that point. |
| 15:48.39 | michaelnovakjr | with 1 gig of ram |
| 15:49.25 | Dougie187 | I also have a friend whos parents work with IBM |
| 15:49.29 | Dougie187 | so i can use their EPP |
| 15:49.43 | jasta | my mom works for IBM |
| 15:49.53 | Dougie187 | nice. |
| 15:49.59 | jasta | i got my lenovo 3000 n2 for $600, and i love it. |
| 15:50.03 | Dougie187 | heh |
| 15:50.10 | jasta | that was almost 2 years ago |
| 15:50.19 | Dougie187 | so its about time for a new laptop |
| 15:50.26 | *** join/#android maynards-girl (n=maynards@c-24-126-48-190.hsd1.wv.comcast.net) |
| 15:50.31 | jasta | maybe. i'm thinking about buying a new laptop and keeping both of them |
| 15:50.34 | jasta | just for different purposes |
| 15:50.45 | Dougie187 | yeah |
| 15:50.46 | jasta | i travel more for work than i used to, and it'd be nice to have a laptop i could use on the plane |
| 15:50.52 | jasta | so i'd need an ultraportable |
| 15:50.57 | Dougie187 | x300 here you come. |
| 15:51.00 | jasta | but when i work anywhere else i greatly prefer the large screen |
| 15:51.12 | Dougie187 | or MBA |
| 15:51.54 | Dougie187 | i have a friend who has a MBA |
| 15:52.00 | Dougie187 | i dont like them much though. |
| 15:52.14 | Dougie187 | he said the remote cd thing is a pain in the ass |
| 15:52.18 | Dougie187 | but he almost never has to use it. |
| 15:53.37 | michaelnovakjr | Dougie187: you price thinkpads through ibm? |
| 15:53.44 | Dougie187 | lenovo |
| 15:53.55 | Dougie187 | but you can use ibm EPP if you have login stuff. |
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| 16:01.13 | *** join/#android romainguy__ (n=gfx@72.14.224.1) |
| 16:13.51 | *** join/#android muthu (n=sushmu@59.92.49.219) |
| 16:18.41 | michaelnovakjr | i've always wondered why 64-bit on windows sucked..... |
| 16:18.51 | michaelnovakjr | maybe following the standards would make that better |
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| 17:01.23 | *** join/#android Thus0 (n=petrus@78.249.195-77.rev.gaoland.net) |
| 17:17.57 | *** join/#android morrildl (n=chatzill@nat/google/x-454845d0985c5515) |
| 17:19.46 | *** mode/#android [+o morrildl] by ChanServ |
| 17:20.40 | Dougie187 | good afternoon morrildl |
| 17:21.11 | jasta | i feel like my co-workers are judging me when I listen to Israel Kamakawiwo'ole - Somewhere Over The Rainbow |
| 17:24.25 | morrildl | jasta: well why not, I just judged you right now |
| 17:24.46 | *** topic/#android by morrildl -> I want this ported to Android: http://forum.lolcode.com/viewtopic.php?id=51 Any takers? |
| 17:25.07 | morrildl | jasta: I judged you "eclectic" :) |
| 17:25.47 | dcordes | morrildl: holy crap |
| 17:25.49 | dcordes | lolcode? |
| 17:26.04 | morrildl | dcordes: YES. IS IT NOT AWESOME? |
| 17:26.38 | dcordes | yes |
| 17:26.49 | dcordes | I could start learning to code in LOL |
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| 17:27.32 | Dougie187 | hey morrildl |
| 17:27.39 | Dougie187 | if we agree to port it do we get SDK access? |
| 17:27.40 | Dougie187 | lol |
| 17:27.48 | morrildl | Dougie187: heh |
| 17:28.07 | morrildl | I'm not sure Andy Rubin would sign that particular SDK license if I put it in front of him :P |
| 17:28.29 | Dougie187 | its worth a try though |
| 17:29.35 | romainguy_ | morrildl: I actually wrote a lolcode to Java bytecode compiler :) |
| 17:29.45 | morrildl | "What's this one for?" "Making the LOLCODE port of Brainfuck run on Android." "They made LOLCODE?" |
| 17:29.57 | morrildl | romainguy_: somehow that doesn't surprise me ;) |
| 17:30.06 | dcordes | Dougie187: reverse all the blobs and make it LOL on your own |
| 17:30.25 | romainguy_ | morrildl: I was very bored that day |
| 17:30.46 | morrildl | romainguy_: clearly you need to update it to generate Dalvik bytecode |
| 17:33.17 | muthu | the output can be converted to audio for more fun :) |
| 17:34.16 | muthu | may be even the LOL coding |
| 17:36.12 | jasta | morrildl: is the dalvik bytecode expected to be very stable across releases, or is it still evolving? |
| 17:38.55 | morrildl | jasta: yeah, Dalvik isn't changing much at this point |
| 17:39.03 | morrildl | mostly bug fixes and additional performance tuning |
| 17:39.15 | morrildl | I think the bytecode format hasn't changed in months now |
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| 17:39.38 | morrildl | to whatever extent that Dalvik bytecode needs to evolve, it will do so in a structured way according to releases |
| 17:39.39 | jasta | that's good, i think you're gonna find a lot of folks implementing other languages, targeting the dalvik bytecode. |
| 17:39.48 | jasta | so that access to the UI framework is natively available |
| 17:39.51 | morrildl | jasta: yes, please! |
| 17:40.05 | jasta | i saw a post some time ago from Miguel about porting Mono even. |
| 17:40.54 | muthu | yeah, porting from existing mobile applications to dalvik would be happening |
| 17:41.48 | muthu | jasta: what if we have a programming language for mobile? |
| 17:41.53 | muthu | wouldn't it be cool? |
| 17:42.23 | jasta | muthu: you mean a programming language particular to mobile phones? that doesn't seem necessary, although it seems to be what davidw is working on with Hecl |
| 17:43.34 | muthu | jasta: right, a common language for all mobiles |
| 17:44.19 | muthu | may be its android :)) |
| 17:47.11 | jasta | android isn't a language. |
| 17:47.12 | *** join/#android SR71-Blackbird (n=nirvana@unaffiliated/sr71-blackbird) |
| 17:47.47 | muthu | ok, android the platform and java the language |
| 17:48.20 | jasta | still, i doubt android would become so common. the mobile industry is unlikely to unify at any point in the near future. |
| 17:48.32 | muthu | yeah, that's frustrating |
| 17:48.32 | jasta | the PC and server markets are much older, and still are not well unified. |
| 17:49.06 | jasta | mobile phones moving toward Java development as a common paradigm would be nice, though. |
| 17:49.42 | muthu | some common development platform |
| 17:50.47 | zhobbs_ | I've always dreamed of a world with common platform/standard for EVERYTHING...but in reality that might slow inovation |
| 17:51.11 | muthu | zhobbs_: not necessarily |
| 17:51.34 | zhobbs_ | firewire makes usb faster, etc |
| 17:52.03 | zhobbs_ | OS X makes windows better |
| 17:53.14 | zhobbs_ | and now android will make iphone/symbian better |
| 17:53.16 | muthu | may be one common development platform.. but different vendor adapters |
| 17:53.29 | muthu | zhobbs_: haha.. yeah iphone has gps now! |
| 17:53.31 | jasta | muthu: that makes it not a common platform. |
| 17:53.57 | muthu | jasta: may be you should create one :) |
| 17:54.09 | zhobbs_ | muthu: yeah, gps, 3g and an sdk |
| 17:54.24 | zhobbs_ | wonder if the sdk would have happened as fast if android never came out |
| 17:54.56 | muthu | i believe its all the android effect.. |
| 17:55.02 | muthu | symbian foundation for example |
| 17:55.44 | zhobbs_ | the 2 linux phone orgs merged too |
| 17:56.40 | muthu | android has done a smart thing.. by not doing a gphone |
| 17:57.09 | muthu | may be everyone will adopt it |
| 17:57.23 | zhobbs_ | I agree...one of those android guys had an editorial saying the opposite...I think he's way off |
| 17:58.01 | muthu | hope android can force the others (oem's and carriers) to change their game |
| 17:59.45 | muthu | i'm waiting for the android for iphone hack ;) |
| 18:00.44 | zhobbs_ | it's funny, everytime I see a GUI anywhere (PoS, cable box) I think, man I would write that using android |
| 18:01.03 | zhobbs_ | I just like the UI toolkit a lot in android...normally UI sucks |
| 18:03.38 | muthu | yeah android programming is plain easy |
| 18:03.45 | muthu | kudos to the dev team |
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| 18:05.52 | zhobbs_ | yep |
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| 18:46.32 | zhobbs_ | anyone think we're going to see a mobile mini-bubble here soon? with some mobile startups getting rich because of smarter phones? I could see it happening... |
| 18:47.01 | muthu | yeah, mobile 2.0 coming soon |
| 18:47.11 | zhobbs_ | shit, are we at mobile 1.0 yet? |
| 18:47.16 | muthu | hehe |
| 18:47.30 | muthu | saw mobile 3.0 preview just now ;) |
| 18:47.54 | zhobbs_ | you can probably get rich by coining the term mobile 2.0 and running with it |
| 18:49.52 | muthu | Hello world.. Mobile 2.0 is here to stay! |
| 18:51.59 | michaelnovakjr | muthu, this is going to be a big bubble |
| 18:52.14 | michaelnovakjr | investors flooding the industry and then leaving startups high and dry |
| 18:52.19 | michaelnovakjr | happens all the time |
| 18:52.36 | muthu | its the web 2.0 carrying over to mobile |
| 18:52.56 | michaelnovakjr | which is not really good for some |
| 18:53.22 | michaelnovakjr | you can't build a company around one single mobile application |
| 18:53.51 | muthu | you can |
| 18:53.59 | muthu | many such companies exist |
| 18:54.03 | muthu | loopt |
| 18:54.04 | yakischloba | twitter? |
| 18:54.06 | michaelnovakjr | what happens if me, mr nobody, comes along and writes a competing app and give it away for free |
| 18:54.15 | yakischloba | then I'll go with you |
| 18:54.21 | yakischloba | but not everyone will |
| 18:54.30 | zhobbs_ | michaelnovakjr: you can give it away for free and build a product company |
| 18:54.43 | muthu | competition will always come |
| 18:54.45 | muthu | the better one wins |
| 18:54.46 | yakischloba | the same people that do things like pay 30 extra dollars a month for the novelty of low-res televesion on their phones |
| 18:54.47 | zhobbs_ | if enough people use it you win (esp with social apps, because they just require a large audience) |
| 18:54.50 | michaelnovakjr | zhobbs: yes, with more than one product |
| 18:55.24 | zhobbs_ | if you have the killer social cell phone app and it really caught on you win...but that'll be 1 in a 1E6 |
| 18:56.44 | michaelnovakjr | you are implying social apps won't ever get old |
| 18:56.48 | muthu | if you can survive with one product on the web, why not on mobile? |
| 18:56.58 | michaelnovakjr | ? |
| 18:57.06 | michaelnovakjr | different platforms |
| 18:57.13 | michaelnovakjr | windows vs win mobile? |
| 18:57.23 | muthu | oh yeah, you need it all mobiles |
| 18:57.27 | muthu | that's what everyone does |
| 18:57.47 | zhobbs_ | michaelnovakjr: by the time it gets old you'll read about it struggling in the paper...from the Caribbean |
| 18:57.55 | muthu | lol |
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| 18:59.06 | zhobbs_ | I don't know how that facebook kid turned down $12 B...it was probably smart, but that's enough for me to call it a day |
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| 18:59.41 | michaelnovakjr | you aren't going to be seeing those offers forever |
| 18:59.43 | zhobbs_ | oh, maybe it's valued at 12B now...he turned down less |
| 18:59.56 | michaelnovakjr | it doesn't make that much money |
| 19:00.05 | michaelnovakjr | in relation to its operations costs |
| 19:00.25 | muthu | zhobbs_: not 12B |
| 19:00.41 | muthu | it was like 2B |
| 19:00.50 | AttractiveApe | Yes, because that matters :/ |
| 19:01.05 | zhobbs_ | yeah, I'd probably take it |
| 19:01.07 | AttractiveApe | I would take the money and run, facebook feels like a sinking ship now. |
| 19:01.10 | michaelnovakjr | its not profitable at the moment |
| 19:01.22 | michaelnovakjr | it costs just as much to run as its makes |
| 19:01.22 | muthu | AttractiveApe: agree |
| 19:01.33 | muthu | Mark Zuck made a mistake there |
| 19:01.40 | muthu | got caught up in the bubble i guess |
| 19:02.02 | michaelnovakjr | i think it would be best for everyone if social networking went away |
| 19:02.25 | muthu | oh no |
| 19:02.30 | muthu | SN is fun |
| 19:02.35 | michaelnovakjr | oh yes |
| 19:02.40 | muthu | oh no |
| 19:02.42 | michaelnovakjr | oh no its not |
| 19:02.50 | muthu | oh yes |
| 19:02.54 | michaelnovakjr | its a lame excuse to sit in front of the computer |
| 19:03.05 | michaelnovakjr | live with the real world people! |
| 19:03.19 | muthu | you are missing the point |
| 19:03.23 | michaelnovakjr | i have a facebook profile |
| 19:03.35 | michaelnovakjr | and i am a 25 year old body building model in beverly hills |
| 19:03.36 | zhobbs_ | michaelnovakjr: it's good for kids |
| 19:03.45 | michaelnovakjr | and i have 10,000 friends |
| 19:03.52 | michaelnovakjr | and a really sweet car |
| 19:04.14 | michaelnovakjr | and hell on its not good for kids |
| 19:04.22 | michaelnovakjr | predators, bullying.... |
| 19:04.27 | zhobbs_ | michaelnovakjr: ok, not good for kids, but kids love it |
| 19:04.29 | zhobbs_ | like TV |
| 19:04.34 | zhobbs_ | and youTube |
| 19:04.35 | michaelnovakjr | theres a difference |
| 19:04.53 | michaelnovakjr | you can harass a kid directly on facebook, but not through the TV |
| 19:04.58 | michaelnovakjr | and its easier |
| 19:05.25 | michaelnovakjr | a kid killed herself over it |
| 19:06.03 | michaelnovakjr | i just don't see how it contributes to the greater good of mankind to have this close of contact |
| 19:06.07 | muthu | yeah, its also bad in that way |
| 19:06.11 | muthu | like everything else is |
| 19:06.12 | michaelnovakjr | its more than just one big white pages |
| 19:06.38 | michaelnovakjr | why does facebook have to list everything short of your social security number? |
| 19:06.46 | michaelnovakjr | why can't it just be an email directory? |
| 19:07.12 | michaelnovakjr | someone you don't know comes up to you in the street and kicks your ass because they know what you look like and don't like your profile |
| 19:07.38 | zhobbs_ | michaelnovakjr: ha, speaking from experience? |
| 19:07.43 | michaelnovakjr | i can see the need for a directory of lost friends from years ago...... but how about email directorys |
| 19:07.47 | michaelnovakjr | zhobbs: :) |
| 19:07.50 | muthu | lol |
| 19:07.58 | michaelnovakjr | i did say i was a body builder :) |
| 19:08.07 | michaelnovakjr | directories |
| 19:08.09 | michaelnovakjr | * |
| 19:08.56 | f00f- | lollerskates |
| 19:09.09 | michaelnovakjr | its all just way too overkill |
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| 19:20.14 | muthu | people are making a kill over SN |
| 19:24.35 | michaelnovakjr | and that makes it cool or good? |
| 19:25.21 | michaelnovakjr | just because some people make a killing doesn't mean everyone has to jump on the bandwagon |
| 19:25.32 | michaelnovakjr | are you trying to grow tobacco? |
| 19:27.02 | muthu | michaelnovakjr: socialnetworking is a big hit with people |
| 19:27.11 | muthu | we are not talking about a minority here |
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| 19:51.01 | jasta | im so glad GNOME moved to gvfs |
| 19:51.20 | jasta | this is so much better than the GIO crud they were using before |
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| 20:50.17 | *** join/#android mncom (n=mncom@156.51.218.87.dynamic.jazztel.es) |
| 20:50.23 | mncom | hi |
| 20:50.30 | jasta | hello |
| 20:50.42 | mncom | exist any device to run android? |
| 20:50.57 | jasta | sort of, but not officially, not stable, and not featureful |
| 20:51.27 | jasta | i recommend thaty ou wait until the end of this year, when the handsets will be launched officially |
| 20:51.33 | mncom | at the moment we only have a emulator to try? |
| 20:51.40 | jasta | basically, yes. |
| 20:51.52 | jasta | the point of the emulator is not to "try" android. |
| 20:52.02 | michaelnovakjr | i <3 the emulator :) |
| 20:52.30 | jasta | it is to develop for it. if you are not a developer or an experienced linux kernel hacker, you've nothing useful to be doing until handsets launch at the end of the year. |
| 20:52.53 | mncom | yes, i'm trying a SDK |
| 20:53.16 | jasta | do realize that the current SDK is pretty old. 5 months old, to be exact. |
| 20:53.48 | jasta | it is presently unknown when a follow-up release will be made, but many of us fear it is not "soon" |
| 20:53.59 | f00f- | yeah it'll be soon |
| 20:54.03 | Dougie187 | lol |
| 20:54.03 | f00f- | in the comin months |
| 20:54.08 | Dougie187 | if you call that soon. |
| 20:54.18 | jasta | yeah, i dont call "some time in the coming months" soon |
| 20:54.31 | Dougie187 | soon would be a week or two |
| 20:54.34 | jasta | if anything less than a month before handset launch, it isn't soon at all. |
| 20:54.49 | f00f- | dont worry it'll be soon by your def then |
| 20:54.52 | f00f- | it'll pre before handset launch |
| 20:55.00 | jasta | f00f-: i didn't define soon, i defined what isn't soon. |
| 20:55.08 | Dougie187 | i defined soon. |
| 20:55.09 | f00f- | illegal. |
| 20:55.22 | jasta | f00f-: i described what isn't soon. |
| 20:55.25 | Dougie187 | but handsets wont be out until the end of the year. |
| 20:55.26 | jasta | i defined nothing. |
| 20:55.29 | Dougie187 | heh |
| 20:55.43 | Dougie187 | and i doubt it will be out by my definition of soon |
| 20:56.10 | jasta | Dougie187: agreed. i have doubts that even my condition for soon will be met. |
| 20:57.19 | Dougie187 | i doubt even morrildl can say it will be out at least a month before handset. |
| 20:57.19 | Dougie187 | he just would hope it is |
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| 20:57.25 | jasta | mncom: what you may be noticing here is that there are precious few details on the platform, the SDK, etc. proceed with caution :) |
| 20:57.45 | *** join/#android Razec (n=Razec@189.56.183.198) |
| 20:59.41 | mncom | ok, i will do it |
| 21:00.40 | jasta | i laugh that i once had the idea the source would be released in January. |
| 21:00.44 | *** join/#android yakischloba (n=jake@rnkfoods.com) |
| 21:00.47 | Razec | hi all |
| 21:00.55 | jasta | because surely, an open source platform wouldn't go nearly a year without source code |
| 21:00.59 | Dougie187 | lol |
| 21:01.02 | jasta | oh what a fool i've been :) |
| 21:01.10 | Dougie187 | anyone need a wireless n router? |
| 21:01.14 | Dougie187 | $70 on newegg |
| 21:01.29 | f00f- | umm |
| 21:01.33 | f00f- | i need a WRT54GL |
| 21:01.40 | Dougie187 | GL? |
| 21:01.46 | Dougie187 | WRT is linksys right? |
| 21:01.49 | f00f- | werd |
| 21:01.54 | Dougie187 | whats the gl? |
| 21:01.56 | f00f- | fiddy fou' |
| 21:01.57 | f00f- | G |
| 21:02.06 | f00f- | Linux |
| 21:02.21 | jasta | has the discont. WRTSL54GS |
| 21:02.25 | jasta | it's AWESOME :) |
| 21:02.35 | jasta | Netgear just released a nice new router that should have openwrt support very soon |
| 21:02.43 | jasta | curious to buy a few of those |
| 21:02.47 | Dougie187 | this one is WRT160N |
| 21:03.36 | f00f- | oh my dude |
| 21:03.40 | f00f- | http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16833124190 |
| 21:03.42 | f00f- | it's a steal |
| 21:04.04 | Dougie187 | $41 |
| 21:04.07 | Dougie187 | thats pretty cool |
| 21:06.06 | *** join/#android dims (n=dims@c-66-31-154-33.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) |
| 21:06.59 | Dougie187 | llol |
| 21:06.59 | Dougie187 | WRT160N |
| 21:07.03 | Dougie187 | http://www.engadget.com/2008/07/02/tyrant-alarm-clock-dials-your-contacts-if-you-refuse-to-wake/ |
| 21:07.04 | Dougie187 | there. |
| 21:07.07 | Dougie187 | thats the copy i meant. |
| 21:08.03 | *** join/#android nighthawk06 (n=nighthaw@nighthaw.bb.netvision.net.il) |
| 21:08.20 | nighthawk06 | I got imate pda, can I use the android on it? |
| 21:08.39 | Dougie187 | lol |
| 21:08.43 | Dougie187 | probably not. |
| 21:08.51 | Dougie187 | actually. |
| 21:08.59 | Dougie187 | no. not yet. |
| 21:09.10 | nighthawk06 | will there be a port to it? |
| 21:09.21 | Dougie187 | who knows. |
| 21:09.24 | Dougie187 | wait until its released. |
| 21:09.26 | Dougie187 | then you can ask away |
| 21:09.43 | nighthawk06 | when is it due to be out? |
| 21:09.53 | Dougie187 | "By the end of 2008" |
| 21:09.58 | nighthawk06 | cool |
| 21:10.21 | nighthawk06 | thanks... |
| 21:10.24 | Dougie187 | no problem. |
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| 21:13.23 | *** part/#android muthu (n=sushmu@59.92.49.219) |
| 21:16.49 | f00f- | ok will have it next week |
| 21:18.59 | Dougie187 | the SDK will be out next week? |
| 21:21.00 | jasta | he will probably have his version :) |
| 21:21.18 | jasta | he's expected to get it 3 weeks prior to the ADC due date, which is at the end of july |
| 21:22.04 | jasta | really hopes that the round 1 winners step it up and actually make their applications good and usable. |
| 21:27.40 | f00f- | no i meant my WRT54GL |
| 21:28.12 | f00f- | jasta: i am having trouble stepping it up |
| 21:28.16 | f00f- | but i will try very hard |
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| 21:30.18 | jasta | i fear the entire lot of these ADC round 1 apps will feel very crude and undeveloped |
| 21:30.54 | jasta | mine feels like that, but i havent worked on it in months |
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