| 00:00.52 | dcordes_ | marketing |
| 00:01.03 | f00f- | anti-marketing |
| 00:01.28 | jasta | f00f-: his dept is doing a great job :) |
| 00:01.41 | f00f- | :D |
| 00:02.21 | krosaen | my official title is, "deputy senior vp of strategic synergy" |
| 00:02.31 | krosaen | :) |
| 00:02.39 | jasta | god i honestly cant tell if he's joking |
| 00:02.40 | krosaen | actually i just work on the view system and other parts of the framework |
| 00:02.46 | zhobbs | cool |
| 00:02.47 | jasta | the type of person who would have a title that ridiculous are likely to tell it to you |
| 00:03.16 | jasta | alright, heading home |
| 00:03.17 | krosaen | heh, seriously |
| 00:03.21 | dcordes_ | cya jasta |
| 00:03.37 | dcordes_ | and others |
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| 00:03.41 | jasta | i have some exciting e-mails from the libsyncml folks that have given me a bunch of work to do :) |
| 00:03.52 | zhobbs | nicew |
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| 00:03.54 | zhobbs | nice |
| 00:04.15 | jasta | one of the main guys finally recognized that there is a real problem and started doing significant work to fix my issues, and is expanding the API some for me as well |
| 00:07.49 | zhobbs | things are changing so rapidly in my android project I need to tool to prune unused files in /res/ |
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| 00:40.32 | yakischloba | jasta: how was it? |
| 00:45.39 | jasta | my trip? |
| 00:45.40 | jasta | awesome |
| 00:45.47 | yakischloba | cool. gorgeous weekend for it. |
| 00:46.17 | jasta | yeah, no kidding |
| 00:46.21 | jasta | ill get some geotagged pictures up soon |
| 00:46.32 | yakischloba | its a little too hot for me right now though. I probably could've wrung a liter out of my shirt after my bike ride home a few minutes ago. |
| 00:47.33 | jasta | it was nice being on the cold water |
| 00:47.37 | yakischloba | yeah |
| 00:47.39 | jasta | you could reach your hand down any time you wanted |
| 00:48.01 | yakischloba | I was on Bainbridge on saturday, its always cooler away from the city. |
| 00:48.46 | yakischloba | i guess its time to stop procrastinating and buy some more pairs of shorts |
| 00:49.07 | wastrel | more shorts yes |
| 00:50.00 | yakischloba | the top of my feet are sunburnt from poolside lounging yesterday. I knew i was forgetting a spot with the sunscreen |
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| 01:05.04 | jasta | yakischloba: we're starting to get enough seattle folks that we could have an android meetup and got tossed downtown or something ;) |
| 01:05.49 | yakischloba | jasta: as uninvolved as I am with android, it'd probably be fun. |
| 01:15.55 | zhobbs | anyone know how to edit a ListView's separator? |
| 01:16.24 | zhobbs | or set I should say |
| 01:16.25 | jasta | edit it? |
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| 01:17.09 | zhobbs | jasta: how to specify what separator to use |
| 01:17.42 | zhobbs | that's not part of the adapter is it? |
| 01:17.52 | jasta | no, its in the listview interface |
| 01:17.52 | jasta | hang on |
| 01:18.04 | zhobbs | yeah, I've seen it...but can't find it |
| 01:18.19 | jasta | oh wait, or maybe not |
| 01:18.36 | jasta | setDivider |
| 01:18.54 | jasta | but when i used this (in M3), it was buggy and broken like you wouldn't believe. |
| 01:18.58 | zhobbs | hm |
| 01:19.00 | jasta | i should hope its improved, but i dont know |
| 01:19.08 | zhobbs | I was looking for setSeparator |
| 01:19.20 | jasta | right, they call it a divider, but they should call it a separator i think |
| 01:19.22 | zhobbs | cause they call it a separator in the desc of some of the methods |
| 01:19.29 | zhobbs | k, thanks |
| 01:19.31 | jasta | especially since other functions call them separators |
| 01:19.36 | zhobbs | yeah |
| 01:20.09 | krosaen | a divider is an optimization to make it easy to have the same drawable between every item |
| 01:20.24 | krosaen | a separator is a view at a position for which ListAdapter#isEnabled returns false |
| 01:20.40 | krosaen | it won't be selectable |
| 01:20.44 | zhobbs | oh ok |
| 01:21.05 | jasta | krosaen: you should note this distinction in the docs, because i didnt get that either. |
| 01:21.26 | krosaen | yeah, it's not an obvious point, i'll make sure we improve the docs on that |
| 01:22.00 | zhobbs | I guess that makes sense now that I re-read this method's desc: http://code.google.com/android/reference/android/widget/ListView.html#lookForSelectablePosition(int, boolean) |
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| 02:18.15 | michaelnovakjr_ | howdy |
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| 12:44.13 | Dougie187 | Good Morning Everyone |
| 12:45.52 | cutmasta | hi Dougie187 |
| 12:46.03 | Dougie187 | Hows it going? |
| 12:46.16 | cutmasta | good |
| 12:46.22 | Dougie187 | nice |
| 12:46.23 | cutmasta | sun is shining :) |
| 12:46.31 | Dougie187 | that it is |
| 12:46.33 | Dougie187 | but not for long! |
| 12:46.36 | Dougie187 | it is hurricane season. |
| 12:46.40 | Dougie187 | so it will probably rain soon |
| 12:46.55 | cutmasta | i think here in germany not |
| 12:46.57 | cutmasta | :) |
| 12:47.08 | Dougie187 | well you are lucky then. |
| 12:47.08 | Dougie187 | lol |
| 12:47.10 | cutmasta | and hopefully not at all in the us |
| 12:47.29 | cutmasta | you have enough hurricanes and rain for years |
| 12:47.41 | Dougie187 | yeah not in all of the us. |
| 12:48.29 | Dougie187 | but, there is hurricane boris coming in from the west. |
| 12:49.25 | cutmasta | Dougie187, sounds not good |
| 12:49.37 | cutmasta | Dougie187, i will go to US this month |
| 12:49.42 | Dougie187 | cool |
| 12:49.46 | cutmasta | hopefully no hurricanes then |
| 12:49.47 | cutmasta | :) |
| 12:49.47 | Dougie187 | where at? |
| 12:49.51 | cutmasta | chicago |
| 12:49.55 | Dougie187 | lol |
| 12:49.58 | cutmasta | :) |
| 12:50.02 | Dougie187 | you wont have any there |
| 12:50.07 | cutmasta | ok, dont know |
| 12:50.35 | Dougie187 | hurricanes don't go that far inland. |
| 12:51.15 | cutmasta | ahhh |
| 12:51.16 | cutmasta | i see |
| 12:51.24 | cutmasta | shame on my knowledge |
| 12:51.26 | cutmasta | ;) |
| 12:52.19 | Dougie187 | heh |
| 12:52.26 | Dougie187 | here is a good picture of boris |
| 12:52.27 | Dougie187 | http://www.nhc.noaa.gov/gtwo_epac.shtml |
| 12:53.20 | cutmasta | looks bad |
| 12:55.07 | cutmasta | so all the best from here |
| 12:55.12 | cutmasta | :) |
| 12:55.42 | Dougie187 | heh |
| 12:55.46 | Dougie187 | its not gonna hit here. |
| 12:56.06 | Dougie187 | i dont even know where those hurricanes go most of the time, but i don't remember hearing anything bad about pacific hurricanes. |
| 12:57.34 | cutmasta | hmm |
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| 13:17.47 | anno^da | Does someone know which role the library layers (in the framework) plays in reference to the Power Management. I know what we have the Power Management class in the APIs and the Power Management implementation in the kernel. Whats the role of the libs in this context ? |
| 13:21.12 | michaelnovakjr | anno^da: it deals with power related properties like whether it is awake or not and the screen brightness |
| 13:21.42 | michaelnovakjr | its a high level power management implementation in the sdk |
| 13:23.30 | anno^da | Yeah I know that I can access the power management using the APIs. But there have to be libraries in the library layer that encapsulate the power management implementation in the kernel. Right? |
| 13:25.48 | michaelnovakjr | are you looking for something in particular? |
| 13:27.25 | anno^da | No I'm just looking at the framework at the moment. http://code.google.com/android/what-is-android.html And tried to explain for myself how the implemenation of Power Management works through the different layers of the framework. (sorry for my bad english :) ) |
| 13:28.23 | anno^da | Application -> PM API -> PW Libraries -> PM implementation in the kernel |
| 13:28.42 | michaelnovakjr | my guess is that its either in the runtime or libc library |
| 13:30.07 | anno^da | Yeah ok libc would make the most sense |
| 13:30.30 | michaelnovakjr | yea or the runtime core libraries |
| 13:30.38 | michaelnovakjr | not sure how much of that is going to get released |
| 13:30.46 | michaelnovakjr | as in source code :) |
| 13:30.58 | anno^da | The VM will be |
| 13:31.21 | anno^da | Otherwise the coder of the VM wouldnt have said that at the IO |
| 13:31.56 | michaelnovakjr | yea, but not sure about all the libraries... especially if they contain proprietary code from network providers or manufacturers |
| 13:33.16 | anno^da | yeah |
| 13:33.52 | anno^da | from my point of view most of the telephony, gps and 3G related stuff will be closed |
| 13:34.14 | anno^da | but the whole media implementation (open Core ) will be open |
| 13:34.14 | michaelnovakjr | gps might not be, but certainly 3G related code will be |
| 13:34.52 | anno^da | Yeah GPS could be as well. At the Openmoko project it took one year to find an open implemenation |
| 13:35.14 | michaelnovakjr | i haven't paid much attention at all to android related code recently because i haven't been working with it :) |
| 13:35.32 | anno^da | :) |
| 13:35.34 | michaelnovakjr | tackling a few other projects while waiting for a new sdk |
| 13:35.48 | anno^da | yeah |
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| 13:49.58 | Dougie187 | hows it going michaelnovakjr? |
| 13:50.32 | Kraln | anyone else get contacted by a reporter from business week? |
| 13:51.05 | Dougie187 | no. |
| 13:51.10 | Dougie187 | but are you in the top 50? |
| 13:51.39 | Kraln | no |
| 13:53.59 | michaelnovakjr | hey Dougie187 |
| 13:56.02 | Dougie187 | you find any sweet deals on your laptop yet/ |
| 13:56.18 | michaelnovakjr | not yet |
| 13:56.40 | Dougie187 | bust. |
| 13:56.52 | michaelnovakjr | yea |
| 13:57.10 | michaelnovakjr | i did start the native git for windows project though! |
| 13:57.41 | Dougie187 | git? |
| 13:57.45 | michaelnovakjr | in order to use git you had to install the linux like packages |
| 13:57.54 | michaelnovakjr | the scm, git |
| 13:58.17 | michaelnovakjr | http://git.or.cz/ |
| 13:58.23 | Dougie187 | oh ok |
| 13:58.41 | Dougie187 | is git better then svn? |
| 13:58.52 | michaelnovakjr | depends on what you're looking for |
| 13:58.54 | michaelnovakjr | i think it is |
| 13:59.03 | Dougie187 | why? |
| 13:59.10 | michaelnovakjr | it uses a distributed model to source control |
| 13:59.17 | michaelnovakjr | everyone has their own repository |
| 13:59.35 | michaelnovakjr | and you can have a remote repository that contains all the contributions for each person |
| 14:00.13 | Dougie187 | but the remote repository doesnt contain all of the files? |
| 14:00.42 | michaelnovakjr | it doe |
| 14:00.43 | michaelnovakjr | s |
| 14:00.49 | Dougie187 | ok. |
| 14:00.59 | Dougie187 | but it just contains all of the contributions as well? |
| 14:01.14 | michaelnovakjr | svn is a central source control system |
| 14:01.17 | Dougie187 | i guess from your description i dont see how its different from svn. |
| 14:01.25 | michaelnovakjr | 1 repository and numerous working copies |
| 14:01.29 | Dougie187 | yeah but you can do work on your own pull. |
| 14:01.38 | michaelnovakjr | yes git is the same way |
| 14:01.45 | michaelnovakjr | except you can track commits locally |
| 14:01.54 | Dougie187 | and remotely? |
| 14:02.01 | michaelnovakjr | make patches and then if you have permission push remotely |
| 14:02.07 | Dougie187 | ok. |
| 14:02.10 | michaelnovakjr | push is like a remote commit |
| 14:02.19 | Dougie187 | so its like an svn server pushed to a different svn server. |
| 14:02.34 | michaelnovakjr | essentially |
| 14:02.39 | michaelnovakjr | its a great model |
| 14:02.45 | Dougie187 | ok, i get it. |
| 14:02.56 | Dougie187 | is it more efficient? |
| 14:03.04 | michaelnovakjr | yea, its fast |
| 14:03.12 | michaelnovakjr | they have good docs on git for svn users |
| 14:03.34 | michaelnovakjr | breaks it down and compares the usual daily tasks of git in reference to svn |
| 14:03.57 | Dougie187 | thats cool. |
| 14:04.18 | Dougie187 | lol is there something like webgit? |
| 14:04.20 | Dougie187 | like websvn/ |
| 14:04.25 | michaelnovakjr | yep |
| 14:04.31 | michaelnovakjr | comes with git |
| 14:04.50 | Dougie187 | is it as cool as websvn? |
| 14:04.52 | Dougie187 | lol |
| 14:05.05 | michaelnovakjr | haha i think so |
| 14:05.09 | michaelnovakjr | there's also trac |
| 14:05.30 | Dougie187 | are there examples online somewhere? |
| 14:06.22 | Dougie187 | and it works with svn too? |
| 14:06.43 | michaelnovakjr | what do you mean by works with svn? |
| 14:06.50 | Dougie187 | git-svn - fast, scalable, distributed revision control system (svn interoperability) |
| 14:06.59 | Dougie187 | like you could have a local git server backed up to an svn server? |
| 14:07.02 | michaelnovakjr | i don't use git-svn |
| 14:07.11 | michaelnovakjr | i think git is awesome enough on its own |
| 14:07.14 | michaelnovakjr | :) |
| 14:07.19 | Dougie187 | well i already have a remote svn server. |
| 14:07.25 | michaelnovakjr | i have git and svn running on my server |
| 14:07.25 | Dougie187 | but i was thinking git would be cool for the local thing. |
| 14:07.46 | Dougie187 | do you have to commit it all the time? |
| 14:07.47 | michaelnovakjr | my single trac installation handles svn and git projects |
| 14:08.04 | michaelnovakjr | only if someone needs what i'm working on |
| 14:08.12 | Dougie187 | well i mean for your local one? |
| 14:08.30 | Dougie187 | to keep the versioning going, do you have to commit to your local git repo all the time? |
| 14:08.35 | michaelnovakjr | yea, i usually commit when i've completed something that works :) |
| 14:08.48 | Dougie187 | heh, i want something that commits when i save |
| 14:08.53 | michaelnovakjr | well, when you push it takes your local commits and puts them on the remote |
| 14:09.03 | michaelnovakjr | preserving the author, id, and timestamp |
| 14:09.08 | Dougie187 | yeah |
| 14:09.40 | michaelnovakjr | do you use trac? |
| 14:10.17 | Dougie187 | nope |
| 14:10.29 | michaelnovakjr | ever checked it out? |
| 14:10.42 | Dougie187 | i have svn on my school acct for my homeworks and stuff |
| 14:10.53 | Dougie187 | then websvn to look at it online |
| 14:10.53 | michaelnovakjr | trac is like google code |
| 14:11.15 | Dougie187 | ive never used google code |
| 14:11.17 | michaelnovakjr | trac has a wiki, ticket management, web source code tool |
| 14:11.28 | michaelnovakjr | roadmap, milestones.... |
| 14:11.31 | Dougie187 | do you have to pay for google code? |
| 14:11.43 | michaelnovakjr | nope |
| 14:11.49 | michaelnovakjr | nor do you have to pay for trac :) |
| 14:12.00 | Dougie187 | yeah but trac is something you have to manage right? |
| 14:12.04 | Dougie187 | google code is on their servers. |
| 14:12.07 | michaelnovakjr | trac has slightly more features than google code |
| 14:12.10 | michaelnovakjr | yes |
| 14:12.12 | Dougie187 | so its like extra storage. |
| 14:12.21 | michaelnovakjr | but there really isn't much managing |
| 14:12.27 | Dougie187 | true, but if you have limited space. |
| 14:12.33 | michaelnovakjr | i have a hot swap for my source code server |
| 14:12.38 | Dougie187 | heh, I dont. |
| 14:12.46 | Dougie187 | i have like 11 gigs total storage on my school acct |
| 14:12.54 | michaelnovakjr | and after each commit it tars up the repo and sends it over to the back up server |
| 14:12.58 | Dougie187 | do they ever deny google code accounts? |
| 14:13.07 | michaelnovakjr | not that i have seen |
| 14:13.20 | michaelnovakjr | its implied that you are an open source project thoug |
| 14:13.26 | michaelnovakjr | and its public |
| 14:13.34 | Dougie187 | hmm. |
| 14:13.59 | Dougie187 | because i started gpging my homework.tar.gz files because of this lazy ass student who likes to steal homeworks. |
| 14:14.16 | Dougie187 | do you know how much storage they give you? |
| 14:14.18 | michaelnovakjr | well, if you ever need any svn or git with trac i have the setup |
| 14:14.22 | michaelnovakjr | i don't charge :) |
| 14:14.40 | Dougie187 | heh |
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| 14:14.49 | Dougie187 | ill have to look at trac. |
| 14:15.05 | Dougie187 | i think i actually need to get a new desktop and make it a backup server. |
| 14:15.14 | michaelnovakjr | its hands down the best web based scm tool i have ever used |
| 14:15.34 | Dougie187 | what does scm stand for? |
| 14:15.50 | michaelnovakjr | source code management |
| 14:15.53 | Dougie187 | ok |
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| 14:16.04 | Dougie187 | because i have heard other acronyms, never scm though |
| 14:16.07 | Dougie187 | mainly cvs. |
| 14:16.44 | michaelnovakjr | cvs is a tool |
| 14:17.03 | Dougie187 | yeah but ive heard cvs used as an acronym to describe SVN for example. |
| 14:17.09 | Dougie187 | since CVS isnt used much anymore. |
| 14:17.43 | michaelnovakjr | that would be wrong |
| 14:17.53 | michaelnovakjr | svn is based on cvs but its not a type of cvs |
| 14:18.07 | michaelnovakjr | cvs stands for concurrent versioning system |
| 14:18.24 | Dougie187 | well ive heard cvs meaning content versioning system. |
| 14:18.41 | Dougie187 | so thats just how i think of most of these things. |
| 14:19.06 | michaelnovakjr | hm, i don't think i've heard that one before |
| 14:19.37 | Dougie187 | well thats cool. |
| 14:19.41 | Dougie187 | ill have to look into git and trac. |
| 14:19.54 | michaelnovakjr | definitely, excellent tools |
| 14:20.05 | Dougie187 | hows your ps3 going? |
| 14:20.15 | michaelnovakjr | not bad... haven't played too much |
| 14:20.22 | michaelnovakjr | been playing euro2008 on xbox |
| 14:20.43 | Dougie187 | yeah i remember you telling me that. |
| 14:20.57 | Dougie187 | then a day later that guy was like "Who wanted to know about the European Cup?" |
| 14:21.15 | michaelnovakjr | haha |
| 14:21.21 | michaelnovakjr | its a cool game on xbox |
| 14:22.12 | Dougie187 | thats cool |
| 14:22.14 | Dougie187 | i havent played halo much lately. |
| 14:22.25 | Dougie187 | i think im going to destroy my own life. |
| 14:22.30 | Dougie187 | becuase im going to get back into diablo 2. |
| 14:22.31 | Dougie187 | lol |
| 14:22.53 | michaelnovakjr | haha |
| 14:23.10 | Dougie187 | have you heard of time vault? |
| 14:23.24 | michaelnovakjr | i might have |
| 14:23.39 | Dougie187 | its like a backup system for linux. |
| 14:23.40 | michaelnovakjr | it sounds familiar but i dont remember anything past that :) |
| 14:23.43 | Dougie187 | heh |
| 14:23.51 | Dougie187 | basically a linux answer for timecapsule for max. |
| 14:23.54 | Dougie187 | mac* |
| 14:23.55 | michaelnovakjr | ah yes... |
| 14:24.00 | michaelnovakjr | do you use it? |
| 14:24.05 | Dougie187 | no, i had a friend use it. |
| 14:24.09 | Dougie187 | and i thought it would be cool. |
| 14:24.11 | michaelnovakjr | good? |
| 14:24.16 | Dougie187 | but i think its still in beta. |
| 14:24.18 | Dougie187 | im not sure though. |
| 14:24.21 | Dougie187 | it was pretty good. |
| 14:24.32 | Dougie187 | he said it wasnt really useful because his backups weren't backed up. |
| 14:24.32 | Dougie187 | lol |
| 14:24.38 | Dougie187 | it was just on his laptop. |
| 14:24.39 | michaelnovakjr | yea, i haven't used it.... but then again i've never used time machine either :) |
| 14:24.43 | michaelnovakjr | haha |
| 14:25.08 | Dougie187 | do you like mandriva more then OSX? |
| 14:25.12 | michaelnovakjr | for my scm server(s) i created a backing up system tied in with hooks |
| 14:25.15 | michaelnovakjr | yea |
| 14:25.46 | michaelnovakjr | after commit the file is sent to the other server where the update is applied |
| 14:26.07 | Dougie187 | thats cool |
| 14:26.19 | michaelnovakjr | that way if the one goes under nothing is lost |
| 14:27.12 | Dougie187 | thats always good. |
| 14:27.28 | Dougie187 | lol i was in this meeting a while ago, with my wife's boss, and their database company. |
| 14:27.43 | Dougie187 | and he was like our data is backed up to two remote locations, so if one of them goes down you are still fine. |
| 14:27.52 | Dougie187 | and i go yeah, but if both go down, your completely screwed. |
| 14:28.00 | Dougie187 | and hes like hahaha..... yeah..... |
| 14:28.01 | Dougie187 | :( |
| 14:28.05 | michaelnovakjr | haha |
| 14:28.12 | Dougie187 | it was funny. |
| 14:28.20 | michaelnovakjr | my second machine backs up to tape :) |
| 14:28.26 | michaelnovakjr | but not on every commit |
| 14:28.28 | Dougie187 | tape is always good. |
| 14:28.34 | michaelnovakjr | so there's a slight hole |
| 14:28.45 | michaelnovakjr | once a day it backs up to tape |
| 14:29.34 | Dougie187 | tape is pretty slow isnt it? |
| 14:30.17 | michaelnovakjr | :) |
| 14:30.25 | michaelnovakjr | hence why it does it once a day |
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| 14:30.27 | Dougie187 | heh |
| 14:30.33 | Dougie187 | thats the only bad part about it. |
| 14:30.38 | Dougie187 | if you need something right now |
| 14:30.43 | Dougie187 | you have to wait a while |
| 14:30.44 | Dougie187 | lol |
| 14:30.50 | michaelnovakjr | yea |
| 14:31.16 | michaelnovakjr | my file server is another story |
| 14:31.20 | michaelnovakjr | that has lots of data. |
| 14:31.33 | michaelnovakjr | backups are not as often or as automatic |
| 14:31.52 | Dougie187 | yeah |
| 14:32.02 | michaelnovakjr | and its not raided |
| 14:32.14 | michaelnovakjr | its also my domain controller for the network |
| 14:32.22 | michaelnovakjr | (windows 2003 server) |
| 14:32.48 | Dougie187 | lol |
| 14:32.54 | Dougie187 | your fileserver is your domain controller? |
| 14:33.01 | michaelnovakjr | yea :) |
| 14:33.08 | michaelnovakjr | it is a multi tasking machine |
| 14:33.08 | Dougie187 | isnt that... not a great idea? |
| 14:33.35 | michaelnovakjr | maybe, but it doesn't control that many windows machines and its not mission critical |
| 14:33.51 | Dougie187 | ok. |
| 14:34.35 | Dougie187 | man. freaking cedega doesnt work at all. |
| 14:35.12 | Dougie187 | here is that timevault thing. |
| 14:35.13 | Dougie187 | https://wiki.ubuntu.com/TimeVault |
| 14:35.36 | michaelnovakjr | nie |
| 14:35.37 | michaelnovakjr | nice |
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| 14:59.32 | michaelnovakjr | trust me when i say subversion has its issues |
| 15:03.56 | Dougie187 | heh |
| 15:03.56 | Dougie187 | ok |
| 15:04.00 | Dougie187 | i dont use it very often. |
| 15:04.03 | Dougie187 | just to backup my homework. |
| 15:04.13 | michaelnovakjr | we use it at my office |
| 15:04.21 | michaelnovakjr | i can go weeks without a commit |
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| 15:04.44 | michaelnovakjr | just to not flood the repo with non-working versions |
| 15:07.11 | Dougie187 | http://youtube.com/watch?v=fdIFy46z4Kk |
| 15:07.12 | Dougie187 | lol |
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| 15:08.23 | jasta | michaelnovakjr: that's a pretty bad policy, actually |
| 15:08.29 | michaelnovakjr | i know |
| 15:08.36 | michaelnovakjr | that's what they want |
| 15:08.45 | michaelnovakjr | which is why i said git would be better in that case |
| 15:08.52 | jasta | i commit very atomically :) |
| 15:08.56 | michaelnovakjr | because i can keep my local commits if i need to revert |
| 15:10.20 | michaelnovakjr | Dougie187, that is weird |
| 15:10.29 | Dougie187 | yeah. that kid is crazy |
| 15:11.13 | michaelnovakjr | jasta, the more i use git the more i become a fan of it |
| 15:11.20 | michaelnovakjr | it has its clear advantages |
| 15:11.41 | gambler | have u tried the git eclipse plugin |
| 15:11.52 | michaelnovakjr | nope |
| 15:11.58 | michaelnovakjr | i don't use eclipse |
| 15:12.54 | michaelnovakjr | i don't usually go for scm pluginss |
| 15:12.55 | gambler | lucky you |
| 15:13.23 | michaelnovakjr | i like the command line utilities.... they are straight forward |
| 15:16.50 | Dougie187 | lol |
| 15:17.08 | Dougie187 | that is ridiculous. |
| 15:17.13 | Dougie187 | did you watch that video michaelnovakjr? |
| 15:17.19 | michaelnovakjr | yea |
| 15:17.28 | michaelnovakjr | you find some weird shit |
| 15:18.18 | Dougie187 | its on msnbc |
| 15:18.29 | cutmasta | Dougie187, lol |
| 15:18.34 | cutmasta | guitar hero is soo cool |
| 15:18.35 | cutmasta | :) |
| 15:19.02 | Dougie187 | yeah |
| 15:19.07 | Dougie187 | and that kid is insane. |
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| 15:19.10 | michaelnovakjr | i have it and never have played it |
| 15:19.14 | Dougie187 | i cant even play that song on hard. |
| 15:19.14 | Dougie187 | lol |
| 15:19.17 | Dougie187 | i like it. |
| 15:19.31 | Dougie187 | i have it for the wii though |
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| 16:56.22 | michaelnovakjr | i wanted to kill myself just now |
| 16:56.29 | michaelnovakjr | someone at work quoted phandroid |
| 16:56.34 | michaelnovakjr | :) |
| 16:56.56 | Dougie187 | lol |
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| 16:57.08 | michaelnovakjr | it was about the photoshop contest |
| 16:57.23 | michaelnovakjr | he sent me the link and everything ! |
| 16:57.27 | Dougie187 | hah |
| 16:57.31 | Dougie187 | what do you win with the contest? |
| 16:57.40 | michaelnovakjr | another beer! |
| 16:57.52 | michaelnovakjr | haha, sorry... couldn't help it |
| 16:57.57 | Dougie187 | lol |
| 16:57.58 | michaelnovakjr | i don't think you win anything |
| 16:58.13 | Dougie187 | $50 |
| 16:58.32 | michaelnovakjr | oh yea, it says it right in the title :) |
| 16:58.50 | michaelnovakjr | long day |
| 16:58.57 | michaelnovakjr | and its only half over |
| 17:00.24 | jasta | lol |
| 17:00.45 | jasta | my family sends me things they read about Android, and i wish they'd stop |
| 17:00.50 | michaelnovakjr | haha |
| 17:00.52 | jasta | it's always stuff i already know, or it's stuff i know to be wrong |
| 17:01.12 | michaelnovakjr | and always from fanboy sites |
| 17:01.55 | Dougie187 | lol the ones they go to |
| 17:02.03 | morrildl_ | you guys have it easy |
| 17:02.20 | morrildl_ | my family always sends me the negative articles and asks if they're true ;) |
| 17:03.04 | Dougie187 | and you are like "afraid so!" |
| 17:03.06 | Dougie187 | lol |
| 17:03.24 | michaelnovakjr | :) |
| 17:03.25 | michaelnovakjr | na |
| 17:03.42 | michaelnovakjr | my only beef with google is with the new sdk |
| 17:03.57 | michaelnovakjr | other than that its business as usual... can't expect any more than that |
| 17:04.12 | michaelnovakjr | did i just say beef |
| 17:04.18 | michaelnovakjr | i need a nap |
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| 17:05.07 | Dougie187 | true |
| 17:05.08 | Dougie187 | lol |
| 17:13.03 | jasta | i just wish we could get this moving again :) |
| 17:18.12 | jasta | morrildl_: did you read all that backlog i sent you yesterday? |
| 17:18.33 | morrildl_ | jasta: I did read it, yes |
| 17:18.37 | morrildl_ | very good points, thanks |
| 17:19.07 | morrildl_ | I'm told that the current thinking is closer to ASF than to Ubuntu or Debian |
| 17:19.35 | morrildl_ | ...and of course we have lots of ASF expats in the Google open source office, and Google's preferred license is ASL 2.0, so that probably says a lot too :) |
| 17:23.07 | jasta | well, the license and the organization are two different things ;) |
| 17:23.27 | morrildl_ | True. |
| 17:24.23 | muthu | hey morrildl_ |
| 17:25.06 | jasta | morrildl_: so do i understand this correctly that a big roadblock at present is just figuring out how to manage the project? |
| 17:25.06 | muthu | for adc2 next year, can the adc 1 winners participate with a different app? |
| 17:25.17 | morrildl_ | jasta: roadblock for what/ |
| 17:25.18 | morrildl_ | ? |
| 17:25.39 | michaelnovakjr | <PROTECTED> |
| 17:25.42 | jasta | morrildl_: for releasing the source and/or next sdk? you made it seem yesterday that the launch of source and the next SDK were not actually logically related to handset launch |
| 17:25.56 | morrildl_ | muthu: rules for ADC2 are not yet written, but I hope that should be the case |
| 17:26.03 | jasta | and i was skeptical, if you recall :) |
| 17:26.09 | muthu | morrildl_: cool, thanks |
| 17:26.21 | morrildl_ | jasta: the source release and the SDK release are two separate efforts, with mostly-separate teams |
| 17:26.40 | morrildl_ | the source release is more or less gated on handset availability, yes |
| 17:26.48 | morrildl_ | the SDK release has other unrelated blockers |
| 17:27.01 | michaelnovakjr | gr |
| 17:27.03 | morrildl_ | I am involved in the SDK team, and I lurk on the open-source team |
| 17:27.24 | Dougie187 | lol any idea when the sdk is coming out? |
| 17:27.39 | morrildl_ | Dougie187: no :( |
| 17:28.02 | michaelnovakjr | it would be nice to know if it will be before devices are available |
| 17:28.19 | jasta | it would be nice to know what "unrelated blockers" means too ;) |
| 17:28.23 | morrildl_ | michaelnovakjr: as far as I know, yes |
| 17:28.38 | michaelnovakjr | :) |
| 17:28.45 | michaelnovakjr | hopefully not a week ;) |
| 17:28.57 | morrildl_ | michaelnovakjr: the point being that we ideally want the 1.0-final SDK out far enough in advance of 1.0-final devices to be useful |
| 17:29.02 | jasta | that would be the most absurdly stressful week ever ;0 |
| 17:29.18 | michaelnovakjr | haha morrildl_ that seems fair enough |
| 17:29.31 | jasta | morrildl_: far enough in advance would mean at least a month for most of us. |
| 17:30.09 | morrildl_ | jasta: I do know now what the "unrelated blockers" are, but they are one of those things I can't talk about |
| 17:30.51 | Dougie187 | lol |
| 17:30.55 | morrildl_ | hopefully we'll get more than a month |
| 17:30.57 | Dougie187 | disappoint. |
| 17:31.20 | michaelnovakjr | morrildl_ that's cool..... but if you see those "unrelated blockers" do me a favor and kick them in the shins :) |
| 17:31.24 | morrildl_ | the 1.0 final might not be out, but the current SDKs are relatively stable now |
| 17:31.28 | morrildl_ | michaelnovakjr: HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA |
| 17:31.40 | morrildl_ | michaelnovakjr: you have. *No.* *Idea.* |
| 17:31.45 | michaelnovakjr | :) |
| 17:31.48 | jasta | morrildl_: by current you mean internally? |
| 17:32.03 | jasta | surely not m5, right? |
| 17:32.04 | morrildl_ | jasta: basically yes |
| 17:32.09 | morrildl_ | certainly not M5 |
| 17:32.14 | michaelnovakjr | jasta, i'd hope he doesn't mean the one from march :) |
| 17:32.23 | jasta | michaelnovakjr: *February*. |
| 17:32.31 | morrildl_ | The delta from M5 to current is pretty significant |
| 17:32.31 | michaelnovakjr | ah yes |
| 17:32.47 | jasta | morrildl_: which is what we'd all assumed. |
| 17:32.48 | michaelnovakjr | hence the hault on development :) |
| 17:32.54 | morrildl_ | conceptually not that much has changed (meaning we aren't going to change how Activities work out from under you or something), but there are a lot of tweaks |
| 17:33.00 | jasta | yeah, as michaelnovakjr said, we assumed that to be true, and stopped development in response. |
| 17:33.11 | morrildl_ | jasta, michaelnovakjr: indeed, perfectly reasonable. |
| 17:33.21 | morrildl_ | I would do the same in your shoes |
| 17:33.27 | michaelnovakjr | i figured less headaches later on |
| 17:33.48 | michaelnovakjr | figuring out a solution is never fun with broken code :) |
| 17:34.04 | morrildl_ | hehehehe |
| 17:34.11 | jasta | teehee, just looking at a calendar now |
| 17:34.19 | morrildl_ | gaaah! |
| 17:34.20 | morrildl_ | no! |
| 17:34.21 | jasta | it's been 5 months since the last significant public release |
| 17:34.22 | morrildl_ | don't do that! |
| 17:34.25 | michaelnovakjr | haha |
| 17:34.34 | morrildl_ | has become afraid of calendars |
| 17:34.34 | morrildl_ | ;) |
| 17:34.35 | Dougie187 | lol |
| 17:34.45 | jasta | almost half a year |
| 17:34.46 | Dougie187 | id like to see morrildl's calendar |
| 17:34.48 | michaelnovakjr | :) |
| 17:34.53 | michaelnovakjr | i wouldn't :) |
| 17:34.54 | morrildl_ | Dougie187: you can have it, if you want it :P |
| 17:35.06 | morrildl_ | jasta: yup |
| 17:35.08 | Dougie187 | hah |
| 17:35.35 | michaelnovakjr | well jasta when you put it like that.... damn |
| 17:35.39 | michaelnovakjr | :) |
| 17:35.41 | morrildl_ | I think back on the conversations we had back in the day when we were planning on bimonthly releases |
| 17:35.47 | morrildl_ | ahhhh, youth. |
| 17:35.49 | morrildl_ | :P |
| 17:35.50 | michaelnovakjr | haha |
| 17:36.10 | michaelnovakjr | that's a crankin' release schedule |
| 17:36.18 | michaelnovakjr | some real optimistic developers huh? |
| 17:36.25 | morrildl_ | well, the SDKs are generated as part of the build |
| 17:36.26 | jasta | yeah, or like how you said you guys would definitely get a bug fix release out a month before the Apr 14th deadline |
| 17:36.38 | Dougie187 | lol |
| 17:36.47 | morrildl_ | that's what RC37 was |
| 17:36.49 | Dougie187 | i think we can go on and on about things they have said. |
| 17:37.00 | morrildl_ | or whatever the most recent one was |
| 17:37.07 | morrildl_ | I mean it's WHY we extended the deadline :) |
| 17:37.18 | michaelnovakjr | which was a good thing :) |
| 17:37.22 | morrildl_ | hehehe |
| 17:37.33 | michaelnovakjr | i wasn't very proactive |
| 17:37.37 | morrildl_ | heh |
| 17:38.02 | michaelnovakjr | well i was, but wrote the whole back end first so the client was starved a bit |
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| 17:38.52 | jasta | morrildl_: rc37? that's m3. m5 had only 1 significant release, and it was early Feb. |
| 17:39.15 | jasta | there was some trivial security bug fix release after that in Mar or something, but it contained no functional changes. |
| 17:40.29 | morrildl_ | hmm |
| 17:40.49 | morrildl_ | okay that must be what I was thinking of :) |
| 17:41.13 | muthu | morrildl_: get the devices out fast ;) |
| 17:41.56 | yakischloba | jasta: give em hell ;) |
| 17:42.17 | Dougie187 | lol |
| 17:42.31 | Dougie187 | and the flood gates are open. |
| 17:42.55 | morrildl_ | yeah I guess you're right, rc15 had docs changes |
| 17:43.04 | morrildl_ | I thought there were a couple emulator fixes in there too, but I guess I was wrong |
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| 17:43.51 | Dougie187 | lol trust jasta. he has obsessed over this for a while |
| 17:43.51 | morrildl_ | this is why I don't need to remember anything, I have people to keep me honest |
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| 17:44.19 | morrildl_ | I'm taking the open-source "many eyes" thing and turning it into a distributed memcache ;) |
| 17:44.34 | yakischloba | jasta has the world in check. |
| 17:46.39 | jasta | you people have a funny opinion of me |
| 17:46.58 | Dougie187 | ;) |
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| 18:20.51 | jasta | mmmm, new last.fm APIs :) |
| 18:21.01 | michaelnovakjr | last.fm is awesome |
| 18:22.57 | jasta | yeah, and their new APIs look to simplify a lot of things i was trying to do |
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| 18:24.47 | michaelnovakjr | :) |
| 18:25.05 | michaelnovakjr | last.fm integration was genius |
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| 21:09.54 | jasta | mmmm, this is like the most brilliant lyric ever |
| 21:10.06 | michaelnovakjr | ... |
| 21:10.24 | jasta | o/~ That night he found the key / to decode you, Tokyo / Between warm sake / And street lights caught in the falling snow o/~ |
| 21:12.31 | jasta | Minus The Bear, naturally. ;) |
| 21:14.38 | michaelnovakjr | :) |
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| 21:16.47 | f00f- | yes, quite naturally. |
| 21:20.14 | jasta | man im excited by these new Last.fm APIs |
| 21:20.22 | jasta | they geocode the venues now |
| 21:21.20 | michaelnovakjr | nice! |
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| 21:27.18 | jasta | romainguy_: are there long term plans to change the way this notification system works on Android? |
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| 21:27.44 | jasta | as in, before handset launch? |
| 21:27.52 | jasta | i think its one of the weaker parts of the Android UX... |
| 21:28.16 | jasta | its very awkward to have to "drag it down", it should just be able to pop up on its own from a press in the status bar |
| 21:28.28 | zhobbs | jasta: you can fling it |
| 21:28.31 | jasta | and it should be a little less generalized |
| 21:28.32 | zhobbs | it's kinda cool |
| 21:28.46 | jasta | so that the information can be specialized, such as posting a generic View to it |
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| 21:29.25 | jasta | and it should maybe not even exist when there is only one notification. for example, if you get a calendar reminder, why not just make pressing the bar go right to the calendar event? |
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| 21:30.15 | jasta | zhobbs: even at the keynote you saw Andy struggling with it. he had to press twice to get it to slid eright. |
| 21:30.23 | jasta | it's an awkward and unintuitive interface |
| 21:32.26 | jasta | even if you change nothing else, it should not be necessary that you "slide" it down. |
| 21:32.31 | jasta | pressing the title bar should open it |
| 21:33.52 | jasta | perhaps it could still "slide out" visually, but without requiring that gesture |
| 21:33.52 | michaelnovakjr | yea, i've tried it and don't really like that |
| 21:34.02 | jasta | ive even tried it on a physical handset |
| 21:34.08 | michaelnovakjr | :) |
| 21:34.09 | jasta | and it felt even more awkward there than on the emulator |
| 21:34.31 | michaelnovakjr | the other thing was deactivated touch screen while call was in progress |
| 21:34.37 | michaelnovakjr | don't like that |
| 21:34.53 | jasta | yeah but that has to be the case |
| 21:35.03 | michaelnovakjr | it should at least be a preference |
| 21:35.04 | jasta | otherwise people will hang up on each other all the time |
| 21:35.21 | jasta | i think the strategy there is to just have physical buttons to end call |
| 21:35.24 | michaelnovakjr | not when your screen turns off |
| 21:35.36 | jasta | well thats true |
| 21:35.56 | jasta | or perhaps they could implement a proximity sensor ;0 |
| 21:36.07 | jasta | to determine when the phone is near your head |
| 21:36.14 | jasta | that would be slick as hell hehe |
| 21:39.19 | michaelnovakjr | haha |
| 21:39.23 | michaelnovakjr | i like that idea |
| 21:44.01 | jasta | probably not good for costs :) |
| 21:44.52 | jasta | actually, you could probably do it with a simple light sensor |
| 21:45.09 | jasta | when the surface of the phone becomes very dark while in a call, its probably against their face |
| 21:45.10 | f00f- | well |
| 21:45.15 | f00f- | N95 has a proximity sensor |
| 21:45.20 | michaelnovakjr | :) |
| 21:45.20 | f00f- | to adjust screen backlight |
| 21:45.33 | jasta | f00f-: are you sure that's not an ambient light sensor? my phone has one of those. |
| 21:45.54 | f00f- | ok maybe it is |
| 21:47.45 | tethridge | the proximity sensor is a big deal for me. |
| 21:47.56 | jasta | ? |
| 21:48.11 | tethridge | if I can't perform the use case that stevo did while on a call, then I'm not getting an android phone |
| 21:48.31 | tethridge | you know, on a call, check for movie times, send email with picture, etc |
| 21:48.54 | tethridge | if I have a touch screen phone, I expect it to be just as fancy as the iPhone. |
| 21:49.01 | tethridge | I'm sure most users will feel the same way |
| 21:49.35 | tethridge | if android is just the software, then it should allow manufacturers to add the sensor if they want |
| 21:49.43 | jasta | tethridge: doesn't the iphone also disable the touch screen while in a call though? |
| 21:49.47 | michaelnovakjr | and mod the os |
| 21:49.53 | michaelnovakjr | not sure |
| 21:50.01 | michaelnovakjr | win mobile doesn't :} |
| 21:50.06 | tethridge | jasta, no |
| 21:50.17 | jasta | oh, it looks like thy have a sensor for this as well |
| 21:50.23 | tethridge | if you pull it away from your face you can continue talking on speaker phone while you surf |
| 21:50.38 | tethridge | check email, etc |
| 21:50.40 | jasta | yup sure enough, it has a proximity sensor |
| 21:50.44 | romainguy_ | the iPhone turns off the touch screen with a proximity sensor |
| 21:50.46 | jasta | weird, i just made up that solution :) |
| 21:50.58 | jasta | i had no idea real hardware ever used something like that |
| 21:50.59 | tethridge | I thought you were joking |
| 21:51.10 | romainguy_ | jasta: even digital cameras use that now |
| 21:51.44 | jasta | the iphone also seems to have an ambient light sensor |
| 21:52.00 | jasta | i didnt know any of this when i was talking just a minute ago hehe |
| 21:52.27 | romainguy_ | you must be a genius then |
| 21:55.10 | jasta | im not usually very good at sensible user experience design, so i just surprised myself by guessing at the design the iphone has ;) |
| 21:55.38 | jasta | romainguy_: do you know if visual voicemail is planned for any android devices? is there a patent problem here? |
| 21:56.09 | tethridge | I think that there is patent issues, but I've heard of other companies rolling it out already |
| 21:56.26 | jasta | hmm, looks like apple was sued over patent infringement for the feature |
| 21:56.32 | tethridge | I can't remember what company it was, but I remember it being a big one, like sprint or verizon |
| 21:57.33 | jasta | it seems as though you could do it third party though |
| 21:57.50 | jasta | i used to use YouMail, for example, and it seems like using that service you could hack something very nice together |
| 21:57.55 | jasta | or even cooperate with them to natively support it |
| 21:58.26 | romainguy_ | jasta: unfortunately I can't answer that kind of question until the answer is public :) |
| 21:58.36 | jasta | that means yes |
| 21:58.41 | yakischloba | duh |
| 21:59.01 | romainguy_ | jasta: no, that means I cannot answer the question, no matter what the answer is |
| 21:59.28 | jasta | i'm taking it to mean yes, whether you want to clarify or not ;) |
| 21:59.51 | jasta | glances over at his phone with 65 "new" voicemails |
| 21:59.56 | romainguy_ | you speculate and guess way too much based on way too little information |
| 22:00.06 | romainguy_ | it's a very bad habit that you have :p |
| 22:00.33 | jasta | that's a matter of opinion |
| 22:00.38 | jasta | if i did not, then i would not have adopted Android. |
| 22:00.40 | jasta | nor would anyone have. |
| 22:01.03 | jasta | Sometimes, people refer to this bizarre, unhealthy habit as "faith". |
| 22:01.30 | jasta | And I think you might find a crushing wave of people who don't think it's such a bad habit at all. |
| 22:02.34 | romainguy_ | there's a huge difference between having faith in Android and deciding whether Android will have visual voicemail based on the fact that I cannot answer the question |
| 22:03.03 | jasta | romainguy_: right, but you assumed i wasn't joking |
| 22:03.25 | romainguy_ | aah... the joke argument :) |
| 22:03.39 | jasta | it isn't an argument, i was joking. you just didn't know that. |
| 22:04.04 | jasta | that said, there's not such a huge difference between faith and speculating way too much based on way too little information. |
| 22:04.35 | duey | i won adc |
| 22:04.44 | jasta | the danger, of course, is that you can misplace your faith, as I have likely done so. |
| 22:05.19 | tethridge | congrats duey |
| 22:05.23 | jasta | duey: ? |
| 22:05.23 | duey | i was joking |
| 22:05.39 | tethridge | so, care to share something with the group? |
| 22:05.41 | duey | runs away |
| 22:05.47 | jasta | that was odd |
| 22:05.48 | tethridge | say an updated sdk? |
| 22:06.02 | duey | needed some stress relief |
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| 22:09.38 | tethridge | duey, which project? |
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| 22:23.26 | jasta | squashes yet another libsyncml bug |
| 22:23.39 | jasta | *tsk tsk*, using g_strndup on binary data ;) |
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