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| 01:57.20 | Kraln | quiet in here |
| 01:57.40 | michaelnovakjr__ | haha, everyone is passed out |
| 02:22.46 | ClassFoo | java.lang.Package.getPackages() failed |
| 02:28.24 | zhobbs | my computer runs soooo much better now that eclipse and the emulator isn't running |
| 02:28.43 | michaelnovakjr__ | haha |
| 03:03.52 | rektide | get more ram |
| 03:03.54 | rektide | you need more ram |
| 03:05.40 | Kraln | eclipse + the emulator takes more than a gig of ram on my machine |
| 03:05.48 | michaelnovakjr__ | damn |
| 03:05.52 | Kraln | if it ever starts swapping, the whole system crawls |
| 03:05.58 | poffy | It eats a lot.. |
| 03:06.20 | rektide | increasing the memory for eclipse is recommended |
| 03:06.26 | Stephmw | ... was about to say that's way too much ram, but then saw I'm in #android and not #j2me ;) |
| 03:06.57 | rektide | otherwise it starts with 256mb maximum space or something and swaps incessantly |
| 03:07.19 | rektide | thats always been one of my least favorite things about java, having to specify max program size |
| 03:07.21 | AstainHellbring | you need more ram |
| 03:07.26 | AstainHellbring | 4gb of ram ftw |
| 03:07.52 | michaelnovakjr__ | i have 4 gigs in my machine |
| 03:07.52 | rektide | yeah i'm only at 2GB. :( so sad that i /need/ more now a days. |
| 03:08.06 | Kraln | I have 4gb too =) |
| 03:08.29 | michaelnovakjr__ | memory is cheap....you can get 2 gigs for $99 |
| 03:09.01 | rektide | i'm worried populating all four slots would slow down my ram access |
| 03:09.12 | Stephmw | scratches his head |
| 03:09.27 | Stephmw | how so? |
| 03:09.39 | michaelnovakjr__ | ? |
| 03:09.56 | rektide | it demands considerably more design work on the part of your motherboard to do properly |
| 03:10.21 | rektide | some motherboards just refuse to do dual channel interleavaing altogether if all four are populated |
| 03:10.32 | AstainHellbring | I got 4gb for my laptop for 88 |
| 03:10.58 | AstainHellbring | some mb's do dual channel on all 4 |
| 03:11.00 | rektide | pulling ram off dead hookers again? did you get your blood test back yet? |
| 03:11.10 | rektide | most should, to be fair |
| 03:11.11 | michaelnovakjr__ | haha |
| 03:11.44 | AstainHellbring | make sure you are on the most up to date bios for your mother board too |
| 03:11.48 | AstainHellbring | newegg.com ftw |
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| 04:10.55 | leiv | hi,i start a activity,but this activity stop quickly,just flash and quit,why? |
| 04:11.10 | michaelnovakjr | what do you mean? |
| 04:11.15 | michaelnovakjr | what is the activity doing? |
| 04:11.44 | leiv | show some detail |
| 04:12.08 | michaelnovakjr | does it extend Activity? |
| 04:12.12 | leiv | yes |
| 04:12.45 | michaelnovakjr | pastebin your exception from the log file |
| 04:14.04 | leiv | sorry, what your mean? |
| 04:14.22 | michaelnovakjr | is this your first project? |
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| 04:14.52 | leiv | yes |
| 04:15.01 | michaelnovakjr | are you using eclipse? |
| 04:15.06 | leiv | yes |
| 04:15.32 | michaelnovakjr | run adb logcat and copy the results to pastebin.org and post the link here |
| 04:15.42 | michaelnovakjr | you run adb logcat from the command line |
| 04:16.32 | leiv | ok |
| 04:19.41 | leiv | http://pastebin.org/30096 |
| 04:19.49 | leiv | thank you :) |
| 04:20.25 | michaelnovakjr | you cut off the actual exception.... you have to scroll up in the log |
| 04:23.42 | leiv | http://pastebin.org/30098 like this ? i'm sorry |
| 04:24.58 | michaelnovakjr | what is it you are trying to do? |
| 04:26.01 | leiv | i click a music in a list,and start a activity to show the detail of the song |
| 04:26.38 | michaelnovakjr | can you paste your code? |
| 04:26.57 | michaelnovakjr | if not try running your debugger in eclipse |
| 04:27.03 | michaelnovakjr | that should point out the problem |
| 04:30.03 | leiv | http://pastebin.org/30100 |
| 04:30.24 | leiv | the code |
| 04:31.15 | michaelnovakjr | you aren't calling any other activity here? |
| 04:31.39 | leiv | this is the cativity being called |
| 04:32.01 | michaelnovakjr | where's the calling activity? |
| 04:32.11 | michaelnovakjr | do you actually get to this page? |
| 04:32.23 | leiv | yes |
| 04:32.54 | leiv | i show the page ,but it just flash and back to the previous activity |
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| 04:33.45 | michaelnovakjr | comment out your onClick code and give it a run |
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| 04:36.13 | leiv | it's the same |
| 04:40.51 | leiv | michaelnovakjr: if this has something to do with the calling activity,or it's totally the problem of the activity being called? |
| 04:41.37 | michaelnovakjr | its trying to play music too i assume |
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| 05:23.12 | poffy | Any ideas when judges will start looking at apps? |
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| 05:43.03 | jjt009 | quick question |
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| 05:43.15 | jjt009 | directed to romain_guy or morrildl |
| 05:43.28 | jjt009 | at what times will the judging occur? |
| 05:44.00 | jjt009 | i was hoping to be able to turn off the machine i'm using as a server at night (i live in the pst time zone area) |
| 05:44.11 | jjt009 | will the judges be located only in mountain view |
| 05:44.21 | jjt009 | or will they be in all parts of the world? |
| 05:44.31 | AstainHellbring | most likely all parts of world |
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| 05:45.22 | jjt009 | ok, so then i have to keep my machine on at all times |
| 05:45.28 | jjt009 | nooo |
| 05:45.32 | jjt009 | so much power wasted |
| 05:46.01 | jjt009 | Astain: so what's the best app you've seen so far? |
| 05:47.21 | AstainHellbring | not looked a lot yet where are they at again? |
| 05:47.36 | jjt009 | Astain: helloandroid.com |
| 05:49.54 | AstainHellbring | oh yah thanks |
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| 05:50.57 | AstainHellbring | xlive looks impressive |
| 05:59.47 | romainguy | hey |
| 05:59.51 | romainguy | xlive uses one of my photos ^^ |
| 06:02.59 | duey | lol |
| 06:03.19 | duey | can the emulator do http over proxy |
| 06:04.59 | duey | lol someone added my app to the db |
| 06:05.08 | duey | mysterious |
| 06:17.29 | Kraln | I seeded my chat network with fake users so it isn't empty when the judges connect |
| 06:19.47 | duey | lol |
| 06:19.55 | duey | you should get them hooked up to aiml |
| 06:20.06 | Kraln | its not an instant messanger network |
| 06:20.51 | duey | ? |
| 06:21.00 | duey | aiml = http://www.alicebot.org/ |
| 06:21.50 | Kraln | oh, okay |
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| 07:01.10 | jasta | ok. when i said i was gonna take a week break from my project, i really meant i'll wait until Wed night ;) |
| 07:01.39 | muthu | jasta: why wait? |
| 07:02.00 | duey | lol |
| 07:02.02 | jasta | i was just going to wait out of sheer exhaustion ;) |
| 07:02.18 | duey | you need to be banned from this channel for a week |
| 07:02.22 | jasta | i'm gonna try to pack it up in such a way that could be distributed to people to play with right now. |
| 07:02.35 | jasta | right now, it's kind of in demo mode for the judges |
| 07:02.55 | jasta | i'd like to fix a few things, smooth out a few rough spots, and add a couple of extra niceties in the server and then release |
| 07:03.15 | muthu | jasta: looks like a huge demand for five |
| 07:03.22 | jasta | yes, it does :) |
| 07:03.30 | jasta | i'm encouraged :) |
| 07:03.39 | muthu | grea |
| 07:03.41 | muthu | great |
| 07:04.05 | jasta | there is much work to be done, however. from now until commercial launch is going to be busy indeed. |
| 07:04.13 | muthu | cool |
| 07:04.15 | muthu | keep at it |
| 07:04.50 | Kraln | jasta, you going to need servers for your commercial release? |
| 07:05.16 | jasta | Kraln: Not hosted ones, no. The user will install the software onto their PC. |
| 07:05.27 | Kraln | ah, k |
| 07:05.34 | duey | jasta, you could run private servers for $$$ |
| 07:06.05 | duey | subscription based pricing |
| 07:06.10 | jasta | I don't intend to. |
| 07:06.27 | jasta | By commercial launch, I meant _of Android_. |
| 07:06.29 | jasta | Not of my system. |
| 07:06.52 | duey | ya |
| 07:06.54 | duey | obv |
| 07:07.01 | muthu | if we are talking about common servers, then its trouble |
| 07:07.07 | muthu | copyrights etc., |
| 07:07.15 | jasta | Which is why I don't want to go there. |
| 07:07.29 | duey | yeah but you could host private content |
| 07:07.34 | duey | restrict to a single phone |
| 07:07.35 | duey | etc |
| 07:07.58 | jasta | it still is dangerous territory |
| 07:08.16 | duey | yeah probably |
| 07:08.22 | duey | but no more danagerous than webhosting |
| 07:08.35 | jasta | anyway, it's not how i intend the system to work. using a centralized design would be very difficult to do. first of all, the storage and bandwidth requirements would be huge. |
| 07:08.46 | duey | yeah thats why people pay! |
| 07:09.00 | jasta | but why would they want to pay for something like that when they can just put it on their home PC? |
| 07:09.16 | duey | let them put it on there home pc |
| 07:09.29 | muthu | accessing "your" music, anywhere - that's useful by itself |
| 07:09.41 | duey | why would you pay for web hosting when you could host it on your home pc? |
| 07:10.20 | muthu | jasta: the music gets downloaded and cached, right? |
| 07:10.21 | jasta | duey: Because your resources don't scale with the demand for your content. |
| 07:10.31 | duey | yeah good point |
| 07:10.33 | jasta | duey: This model is much different, since you are the only source of demand. |
| 07:10.49 | jasta | So how could there conceivably be a mounting demand? |
| 07:11.50 | jasta | anyway, i'm gonna go tackle the feature i've wanted to get to for the past 2 weeks but never did |
| 07:11.54 | jasta | ...WbXML support :) |
| 07:12.05 | jasta | this should be an enormous improvement in performance of the sync engine |
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| 07:46.58 | c4software | Hi, wow its works first early boot on wizard. |
| 07:47.36 | c4software | Android boot up on wizard, with an smallest image. (Demo app removed) |
| 07:48.43 | c4software | acctually, i got black screen after, the first screen (ANDROID _ ) |
| 07:48.49 | swetland | nifty |
| 07:49.03 | c4software | i take a video, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iS_AmG8fCR4 |
| 07:50.28 | swetland | I think the panel driver is running in horiz flip mode? |
| 07:50.55 | c4software | no no, its just more easy to take the video |
| 07:51.43 | c4software | After this, my screen gone black, and Wizard seems to be freeze |
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| 09:18.31 | acsia | morning! |
| 09:19.49 | jasta | mornin |
| 09:22.25 | acsia | I saw your app, nice UI |
| 09:22.30 | jasta | thanks |
| 09:22.39 | acsia | no dlls yet? |
| 09:22.43 | jasta | dlls? |
| 09:22.52 | acsia | downloads |
| 09:23.03 | jasta | no, i'm actually working on that this week |
| 09:23.08 | acsia | same here |
| 09:23.15 | acsia | I am working on a video/we page |
| 09:23.15 | jasta | the version i submitted to the judges is in a very particular mode. |
| 09:23.16 | acsia | web |
| 09:23.29 | jasta | it wouldn't be suitable for publishing to the general public |
| 09:23.35 | acsia | I understand |
| 09:23.43 | jasta | so i'm working on tucking away certain awkward features, specifically in the server. |
| 09:23.54 | jasta | and implemented some things more efficiently. |
| 09:23.58 | acsia | I am looking forward to it |
| 09:24.04 | jasta | i avoided certain optimizations that i knew would be unstable for the ADC submission |
| 09:24.07 | jasta | now i'm tackling them :) |
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| 09:24.46 | acsia | I am doing the same, I had to "basterize" my code a bit before submitting to ADC.. I was still working on it until the last minute |
| 09:24.49 | jasta | i'm working right now on transitioning my SyncML client library to using WbXML exclusively. |
| 09:24.54 | acsia | which meant 6 in the morning here |
| 09:25.14 | jasta | me too. i was writing code up until about 5pm the day of the submission. submitted at 10pm that night after testing. |
| 09:26.13 | jasta | anyway, i am eager to publish this in a form that can be generally consumed. |
| 09:26.19 | jasta | i think people will really enjoy my app |
| 09:26.20 | acsia | I thought I would stay away from android for a couple of days... how wrong was I... |
| 09:26.34 | jasta | acsia: Yeah, I had the same idea. Thought I'd take the next week off... |
| 09:26.42 | jasta | but nope, second day and here i am ripping apart my app already |
| 09:26.53 | acsia | we meet again indeed |
| 09:27.31 | acsia | I am on vacation next week so.. apart if i take my computer to sweden with me, I should manage to stay away for android |
| 09:27.33 | jasta | anyway, stay tuned for a demonstration video of my app and a released version :) |
| 09:27.46 | acsia | I surely will :0 |
| 09:27.47 | acsia | :) |
| 09:27.52 | jasta | realistically, the video will come some this week, and the release the next week |
| 09:27.59 | jasta | some time* |
| 09:28.17 | jasta | are you going to Google I/O? |
| 09:28.24 | acsia | no, I can't really |
| 09:28.27 | acsia | how about you? |
| 09:28.40 | jasta | yeah, i have some friends in San Francisco I'd like to see, so it's kind of a vacation for me |
| 09:29.03 | jasta | I'm anxious to go, especially if I can introduce myself as one of the ADC winners ;) |
| 09:29.15 | acsia | nice, Iwould like to go but a bit expensif and it is not related to my 'real' job so... |
| 09:29.16 | acsia | :) |
| 09:29.30 | jasta | yeah, i'm taking vacation from my job. really, that's what it is for me. |
| 09:29.34 | jasta | i'll be drunk both nights i'm there hehe |
| 09:29.38 | acsia | hehe |
| 09:29.56 | jasta | i have friends that work for Loopt, one of which used to be my roommate. so i'm gonna party with them. |
| 09:30.10 | acsia | especially if you win, a probably if you wont as well... that will be my case at least |
| 09:30.13 | acsia | Loopt? |
| 09:30.41 | acsia | I c |
| 09:30.44 | jasta | google it :) |
| 09:30.52 | davidw | it's a YC company |
| 09:32.06 | raidfive | I'll be in SF for Google I/O ... most likely drunk as well :) |
| 09:32.20 | jasta | pretty cool company actually. they were gracious enough to rent a cabin at Lake Tahoe this winter, which I partook :) |
| 09:32.55 | jasta | raidfive: cool, maybe i'll see you there. |
| 09:33.11 | ClassFoo | the java.lang.Package.getPackages() failed in android, is there any other method that can get a list of the package that in the ClassLoader? |
| 09:33.15 | acsia | chomchom: you there? |
| 09:33.27 | raidfive | yea that is a possibility ... do you think they will have the ADC winners list by then? or announce it there? |
| 09:33.42 | jasta | raidfive: yeah, they said in the judging doc that it should be on or near may 5th |
| 09:33.45 | jasta | and the conf is at the end of may |
| 09:33.49 | jasta | so i'd expect the list to be known |
| 09:34.06 | raidfive | awesome |
| 09:38.01 | raidfive | jasta, where are you staying for Google I/O? at your buddies? |
| 09:38.39 | jasta | i'm gonna get a 2 bedroom hotel nearby and probably just share it with my friends. |
| 09:38.53 | jasta | we'll be drunk enough that someone won't mind sleeping on the floor i'm sure :) |
| 09:39.02 | jasta | they're taking the time off work too, and staying in SF. |
| 09:39.06 | raidfive | haha |
| 09:39.51 | jasta | like i said, the conference is kind of a footnote on this trip :) |
| 09:40.11 | raidfive | ever been to SF before? |
| 09:40.20 | jasta | yeah, a few times actually |
| 09:40.27 | muthu | sounds like fun |
| 09:40.45 | raidfive | awesome, it will be my first time in SF |
| 09:40.53 | jasta | it's a fun city |
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| 09:41.14 | raidfive | you live in Seattle right? |
| 09:41.16 | davidw | I lived there for a year |
| 09:41.20 | jasta | yeah, which is a better city :) |
| 09:41.24 | davidw | it's ok while you're young or visiting |
| 09:41.32 | raidfive | haha I dunno about that jasta |
| 09:41.36 | raidfive | rain rain and more rain |
| 09:41.44 | muthu | only jasta loves seattle |
| 09:41.45 | jasta | i wouldn't wish _living_ in SF on even my worst enemy :) |
| 09:41.48 | davidw | raidfive, it's worse than that: it's gray all the time |
| 09:41.55 | jasta | those are all myths |
| 09:42.01 | jasta | Seattle has beautiful weather in the summer. |
| 09:42.09 | raidfive | yea for about 2 months :) |
| 09:42.11 | jasta | And Washington in general is gorgeous. |
| 09:42.13 | davidw | that's true, summer is a really nice week there |
| 09:42.15 | raidfive | I live 3 hours from Seattle :) |
| 09:42.33 | muthu | heard florida is the best city |
| 09:42.43 | jasta | if you like old people |
| 09:42.44 | muthu | i mean miami |
| 09:42.45 | davidw | florida's a state |
| 09:42.55 | muthu | davidw: i know you are coming at me |
| 09:42.57 | raidfive | I'll give oyu that one ... Washington is gorgeous |
| 09:43.18 | davidw | too flat for me - my butt, sat in my chair here in Innsbruck, is higher than the entire state of florida |
| 09:43.32 | jasta | the pacific northwest is a very balanced region. there's lots to do, and all seasons are enjoyable. |
| 09:43.48 | davidw | unless you can't stand the endless gray |
| 09:43.49 | raidfive | jasta, do you ski or snowboard? |
| 09:43.50 | muthu | which city is the best? |
| 09:43.51 | jasta | we have calm winters in the lowland areas, but lots of good skiing nearby. |
| 09:44.03 | jasta | beautiful fall seasons |
| 09:44.15 | jasta | and the summer is great, with perfect temperatures that are never too hot |
| 09:44.21 | jasta | plenty of camping/hiking |
| 09:44.26 | jasta | i love this area :) |
| 09:44.32 | raidfive | I can tell :) |
| 09:44.32 | jasta | raidfive: yeah, i'm an aggressive boarder. |
| 09:44.49 | raidfive | nice! I just picked it up again this year ... I have a season pass at Mt Hood Meadows |
| 09:45.17 | davidw | raidfive, you live near the gorge? |
| 09:45.20 | jasta | raidfive: this season i went up probably 20 times, went to Whistler for 2 days, Tahoe for 3. |
| 09:45.39 | raidfive | nice, I've always wanted to go to those resorts |
| 09:45.45 | jasta | Steven's is my favorite mountain near to Seattle. |
| 09:45.48 | raidfive | davidw, I live near Portland |
| 09:45.49 | davidw | jasta sounds like a tourist brochure |
| 09:46.01 | davidw | raidfive, oh right, you were the one advertising the lucky lab thing |
| 09:46.18 | raidfive | actually I didn't post it ... just was seeing who was going |
| 09:46.18 | jasta | Portland is the suckiest place on Earth :) |
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| 09:46.30 | jasta | of course not really, but i hate it |
| 09:46.43 | jasta | Portland is Seattle without the grit. And I hate that. |
| 09:46.47 | raidfive | I think a lot of people from Seattle hate Portland :) |
| 09:47.08 | raidfive | I'm not biased towards either ... both are great in my opinion |
| 09:47.20 | jasta | it amazes me that portland hasn't passed the no smoking law. |
| 09:47.33 | jasta | they claim to be more progressive and greener than Seattle, and yet... |
| 09:47.50 | muthu | no smoking? |
| 09:48.04 | jasta | muthu: in Washington, smoking is prohibited in all public venues. |
| 09:48.04 | muthu | you mean public places, right |
| 09:48.11 | raidfive | aren't those lawed based on the state, not city?! |
| 09:48.18 | davidw | wow I didn't realize that |
| 09:48.24 | jasta | raidfive: Yes, but it's obvious where the push comes from. |
| 09:48.25 | davidw | I f*&*&*& hate smoking indoors |
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| 09:48.40 | jasta | davidw: Then come to Washington :) |
| 09:48.47 | davidw | I think Austria is the last country in europe to prohibit it |
| 09:48.59 | davidw | jasta, too rainy and cold for me |
| 09:49.08 | davidw | portland was too rainy and cold for that matter |
| 09:49.15 | jasta | Actually, it's not very cold here. |
| 09:49.16 | muthu | smoking ban in public places must be welcome |
| 09:49.30 | jasta | The weather is subdued. It never gets very warm (temperature in the 80s or 90s is pretty rare even in the summer) |
| 09:49.35 | jasta | But it never gets that cold either. |
| 09:49.37 | davidw | jasta, my idea of "not cold" is 15C in winter, 10 if it's chilly. |
| 09:49.47 | davidw | which translate to.... 60F and 50f |
| 09:49.51 | jasta | It drops below freezing probably 4 or 5 days during the winter. |
| 09:49.53 | raidfive | jasta, I've been meaning to ask you ... was your android application a port or did you start from scratch? |
| 09:50.11 | jasta | raidfive: from scratch. the entire system began in mid December. |
| 09:50.29 | jasta | though it's an old idea of mine. i just sat on it :) |
| 09:50.31 | raidfive | were you the only dev? |
| 09:50.35 | jasta | yes |
| 09:50.48 | jasta | and i have a full-time job during the day. go me. :) |
| 09:50.51 | raidfive | you sure pushed out a shitload of code :) |
| 09:51.00 | jasta | raidfive: Yup. |
| 09:51.12 | muthu | on top of a real job is amazing |
| 09:51.26 | muthu | jasta; you are a coding machine |
| 09:51.35 | jasta | raidfive: Don't be fooled though, there's still a *LOT* more work to be done. |
| 09:51.42 | raidfive | there always is |
| 09:51.48 | jasta | The server, for example, has a long way to go in order to nestle in comfortably for most users. |
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| 09:52.04 | jasta | It's highly functional, but little more than that. Obviously Windows and OS X users will require a lot of hand-holding. |
| 09:52.35 | muthu | you use sqlite on the server, right? |
| 09:52.36 | jasta | Ideally, I envision setting up and configuring the phone part to be part of the same software setup. So maybe you could plug in your Android device and have it all autoconfigure itself. |
| 09:52.39 | raidfive | jasta, had you developed for other mobile platforms before? |
| 09:52.40 | jasta | muthu: yeah |
| 09:52.59 | jasta | raidfive: Sort of. I am familiar with Symbian and I originally attempted the project on Windows Mobile about a year and a half ago. |
| 09:53.08 | jasta | But I have not gone far with either platform. |
| 09:53.23 | raidfive | I've looked into Symbian a bit and heard it is a bitch |
| 09:53.29 | jasta | It is. Miserable. |
| 09:53.42 | jasta | Windows Mobile is no different. Especially when writing in C#, ironically. |
| 09:54.05 | jasta | the C API is basically the Win32 API, but the C# .NET Compact Framework API is the worst thing ever. |
| 09:54.27 | jasta | They have literally no widgets. It's like a button, textview, and image and some other crappy stuff. Everything else you do yourself. You have to custom draw fucking everything. |
| 09:54.30 | raidfive | haha ... crappier than symbian? |
| 09:54.36 | jasta | Yes, I would say so. |
| 09:54.39 | raidfive | damn |
| 09:55.00 | jasta | Like, even implementing a simple list that matches the rest of the phone UI would be a huge pain in the ass. |
| 09:55.11 | jasta | The whole platform makes you feel like you stepped back in time to 1992. |
| 09:55.30 | jasta | Pathetic. Microsoft should be embarrassed. |
| 09:55.44 | muthu | not sure why those folks make it difficult to write mobile apps |
| 09:55.59 | jasta | Anyway, I was so turned off by the platform and vendor lock-in (uhm, i had to use Visual Studio from VMWare) that I abandoned the Five project early on. |
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| 09:56.26 | jasta | When Android was announced, I knew that there would be a good fit here... |
| 09:56.35 | muthu | jasta: why name it Five? |
| 09:56.59 | jasta | The name came to me after thinking about how I talk up my Windows Mobile phone to regular folk. |
| 09:57.10 | jasta | Explaining that it can synchronize e-mail, contacts, calendar, and tasks, the big four that you'd need. |
| 09:57.24 | jasta | The name came from the notion that there should now be a fifth thing a smartphone should be good at ;0 |
| 09:57.38 | jasta | Kind of stupid, I know. Whatever. |
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| 09:57.44 | muthu | ahh.. you have everything thought out |
| 09:57.53 | muthu | man on a mission! |
| 09:57.58 | convivial | hi! |
| 09:59.10 | convivial | is android nice or is it just another bunch of bill gates billionaire wannabes trying to create 'windows os' market share for mobile devices? |
| 09:59.27 | muthu | lol |
| 09:59.33 | muthu | wannabes? |
| 09:59.43 | muthu | they are already billionaires! |
| 10:00.00 | raidfive | lol |
| 10:00.01 | jasta | convivial: Do you suspect you will get an unbiased answer from #android? |
| 10:00.15 | convivial | well, I looked at the os and i really didnt see anything to excite me... can you englighten men? |
| 10:00.37 | muthu | i'm sure the goal would be to run in every phone possible |
| 10:00.38 | raidfive | hmm, considering the OS isn't finished ... |
| 10:01.03 | jasta | convivial: I really couldn't be bothered. You sound like a troll to me ;) |
| 10:01.14 | raidfive | me too :) |
| 10:01.18 | muthu | convivial: its open, its free |
| 10:01.31 | convivial | muthu true, what j2me is free as well |
| 10:01.35 | convivial | so is windows mobile |
| 10:01.41 | convivial | what do they mean by free? |
| 10:01.54 | jasta | Windows Mobile isn't free stupid :) |
| 10:01.55 | convivial | all mobile sdks are free\ |
| 10:02.03 | muthu | and your applications are first class citizens in a gphone |
| 10:02.04 | jasta | First of all, the manufacturer pays for a license to use it. |
| 10:02.06 | convivial | I downloaded windows sdk and use it all the time |
| 10:02.19 | jasta | Second of all, the developer SDK requires Visual Studio which is certainly not free or cheap. |
| 10:02.24 | convivial | free from a developer perspective |
| 10:02.36 | muthu | windows mobile requires windows |
| 10:02.46 | muthu | iphone requires apple |
| 10:02.49 | convivial | my vs was free, i attended ms seminar, which was also free |
| 10:02.55 | muthu | android runs on whatever i have |
| 10:03.13 | muthu | so i like android - that's the simplest explanation that i gave myself |
| 10:04.07 | convivial | android will not run on everything |
| 10:04.27 | convivial | android requires that the appliance has the android mda built in |
| 10:04.54 | jasta | he meant for the dev SDK, and he meant linux, windows, and os x, not "everything" :) |
| 10:05.09 | muthu | yeah from a developers perspective |
| 10:05.17 | muthu | there's a whole other issues on the OEM's |
| 10:05.25 | muthu | and the providers |
| 10:05.49 | jasta | convivial: Regardless, if Android doesn't excite you, then by all means ignore it. |
| 10:06.04 | muthu | convivial: what you are interested at? |
| 10:06.14 | muthu | and why you don't like android? |
| 10:06.54 | muthu | i love kopete btw, i type con: and it autocompletes correctly :) |
| 10:07.30 | muthu | i saw an application, very close to my mobeegal thingy |
| 10:07.52 | muthu | which is good, because people seem to have the same ideas |
| 10:08.36 | muthu | convivial: i would not be interested in android, if its not running in linux |
| 10:10.10 | convivial | muthu, I love technology... and employment :) |
| 10:10.34 | convivial | can you explain to me the potential for this with android? |
| 10:10.46 | jasta | Can't you go find that out for yourself? |
| 10:11.09 | jasta | This is, afterall, a subjective topic. How can you presume that we will tell you something that is meaningful to you? |
| 10:11.26 | muthu | convivial: what you are looking for exactly? |
| 10:12.53 | convivial | muthu: I just want to be part of a revolution but only if it's going to lead to somewhere... offering $10,000,000 in bribe money to get programmers waste time/money/effort writing software for hardware that does not exist scared me away :( |
| 10:13.14 | muthu | the real hardware is coming soon |
| 10:13.30 | muthu | no need to be scared, since its from google & co and they have a pretty credible history |
| 10:13.50 | jasta | muthu: it would be unwise to assume success just based on google's notoriety. |
| 10:14.08 | muthu | not success, but the possibility of a real device |
| 10:14.26 | jasta | instead, i assume success based on the collaborative investment of the industry itself, realizing that change is necessary and inevitable in the underlying business models driving the mobile industry. |
| 10:14.26 | muthu | which is what convivial seems to be afraid of |
| 10:14.35 | convivial | well, also i'm not very impressed with googles other technologies... for instance, google maps does work however, i have never had a problem with ms mappoint technology |
| 10:15.08 | jasta | convivial: Again, if Android does not excite you, then you may happily ignore it. |
| 10:15.14 | jasta | No one is going to cram it down your throat. |
| 10:15.20 | muthu | convivial: google is not replacing anyone |
| 10:15.27 | convivial | can anyone here site a truely revolutionary and successful google technology to date? |
| 10:15.38 | convivial | muthu: i am just investigating that's all. |
| 10:15.44 | jasta | convivial: If you're here to troll, then I would ask that you please leave. |
| 10:15.48 | convivial | just a bit sceptical |
| 10:16.00 | jasta | Then be so, but be quiet. |
| 10:16.18 | muthu | jasta: lets get another pov |
| 10:16.40 | muthu | convivial: you don't like google search |
| 10:16.44 | muthu | > |
| 10:16.44 | jasta | If you had approached this topic requesting a meaningful dialog you would have gotten one. You didn't, and you won't. |
| 10:16.46 | convivial | jasta: no, i am here to look for evidence of google's abilities to create something that actually works... I have yet to fined anything except nice novelty stuff |
| 10:16.59 | convivial | well, ok then. |
| 10:17.07 | convivial | I guess no help here. then |
| 10:17.29 | jasta | muthu: Let's not. There's no value here :) |
| 10:18.10 | muthu | convivial: android is good, don't give up on it |
| 10:18.24 | jasta | muthu: He's come here to incorrectly validate his predisposition. Nothing more :) |
| 10:18.42 | muthu | jasta: may be, we'll find out |
| 10:18.51 | jasta | We already did in how he approached the topic :) |
| 10:19.10 | duey | <convivial> can anyone here site a truely revolutionary and successful google technology to date? |
| 10:19.12 | duey | search? |
| 10:19.19 | duey | do you have any idea? |
| 10:19.31 | jasta | gets out his constructions materials |
| 10:19.43 | muthu | lol |
| 10:19.44 | jasta | posts a sign in the grass that clearly reads "PLEASE DO NOT FEED THE TROLLS" |
| 10:19.57 | duey | reads the sign and agrees |
| 10:20.07 | jasta | also, don't walk on the grass. or damage the sign. |
| 10:20.17 | jasta | thanks, - management. |
| 10:22.56 | edcba | you don't care about revolutionnary as long as it just works |
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| 10:43.09 | varjag | convivial, no but if you google for "successful google technology" am sure you'd find something |
| 10:43.10 | varjag | :p |
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| 10:43.56 | convivial | edcba I am looking for economically viability... google-search was a happenstance |
| 10:44.00 | convivial | googling :) |
| 10:44.12 | varjag | you didn't use altavista much, did you |
| 10:44.22 | convivial | no |
| 10:44.30 | jasta | hehe |
| 10:44.49 | varjag | google was so much better, it took off like forest fire |
| 10:45.14 | jasta | not an easy problem to solve, either :) |
| 10:45.23 | edcba | altavista was just like google but you had 80% of spam sites :) |
| 10:46.19 | varjag | altavista was dictionary search, google used graph search |
| 10:46.28 | varjag | that was a huge qualitative difference |
| 10:46.28 | edcba | so unless using -buy -warez -mp3... it was unusable :) |
| 10:47.00 | convivial | edcba ok.. i'm not into search-engines, do they use AI in conjunction with search algorithms ? |
| 10:47.14 | edcba | i'm not working at google :) |
| 10:47.21 | edcba | nor av |
| 10:47.58 | varjag | ehm |
| 10:48.05 | varjag | AI *is* search algorithms |
| 10:48.05 | edcba | and it is not the subject of the channel |
| 10:48.33 | jasta | varjag: this guy is hopeless ;) |
| 10:48.41 | convivial | only think that comes up is google's search engine ... know that is successful, but it's not very useful because the 85+ percent of HTML on the web is porn/spam/stupidity anyways |
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| 10:49.12 | convivial | so, i disqualified google search from successful |
| 10:49.31 | jasta | i'm detecting 85+ percent stupidity right now. |
| 10:49.32 | jasta | ;) |
| 10:50.26 | convivial | jasta: sorry dude, but I may be ignorant but not stupid... if you can enlighten me rather than call me names I'd be very obliged. |
| 10:51.20 | convivial | jasta: in am not here to spam and argue just learn about a potential new technology and shake away some of my fears but investing time in learning it. |
| 10:51.33 | jasta | your thinking is just embarrassing narrow. i'm sorry, it would take energy i don't have to adjust that. |
| 10:51.37 | jasta | embarrassingly* |
| 10:51.41 | varjag | all docs are on their website |
| 10:51.42 | convivial | http://code.google.com/android/ doesn't offer much info except for campainging for it |
| 10:51.51 | varjag | ? |
| 10:52.08 | varjag | get through their exercises, you'll know most things about android quick |
| 10:52.17 | jasta | convivial: Except that it offers all the information we ultimately used to build functional applications. So, perhaps you haven't opened your eyes wide enough. |
| 10:52.26 | convivial | ok, i'll go thourhg it then... |
| 10:52.28 | jasta | Or at all. |
| 10:52.56 | varjag | it is the best telephony toolkit i've seen yet, by far |
| 10:53.03 | jasta | agreed. |
| 10:53.14 | jasta | a wide, wide margin indeed. |
| 10:53.22 | convivial | i'll shall take a day or two and play with it... I hope that I have not discouraged you guys from helping me if I get any questions. |
| 10:53.35 | varjag | if you think it's bad, write hello world in symbian |
| 10:54.00 | convivial | varjag, I luv hello world on symbian os, it's job security dude! |
| 10:54.02 | convivial | LOL |
| 10:55.03 | varjag | is happy he's not doing symbian for living |
| 10:55.10 | varjag | some of my friends at nokia do though |
| 10:56.19 | convivial | varjag: but yes, something symbian can be difficult beast to tame. |
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| 10:58.50 | convivial | I see they don't list vs2005 as a possible IDE for android, looks like eclipse is standard ide to use. |
| 10:59.26 | varjag | there are command line tools, you can integrate them with many development environments, but probably not visual studio |
| 11:00.24 | convivial | varjag: hmmm, eclipse ran slow on my old computer, maybe with this one it'll be fine. |
| 11:00.43 | varjag | yeah, it ain't no speed champion |
| 11:00.45 | jasta | Eclipse is not necessary, either. Even the engineers working on Android don't all use Eclipse. |
| 11:00.58 | jasta | Romain, for example, uses IntelliJ I think. |
| 11:01.05 | varjag | i'd use emacs, but had no time to learn how to integrate it |
| 11:01.21 | jasta | I use Vim, but haven't gotten Eclim to work quite right yet. I'll try to make it work soon :) |
| 11:01.32 | jasta | instead, I basically switched back and forth between using vim and eclipse |
| 11:01.43 | jasta | vim for heavy lifting, Eclipse for tinkering/debugging/deploying |
| 11:01.55 | jasta | my built environment is also in maven |
| 11:02.04 | jasta | build* |
| 11:02.10 | convivial | I use to be a gvim user but been spoiled by vs ide |
| 11:02.32 | jasta | Good for you |
| 11:03.14 | varjag | haven't used msvs since 1999, hope it has improved since then :) |
| 11:03.36 | convivial | oh yes, it has! |
| 11:03.41 | convivial | I also like netbeans |
| 11:03.51 | jasta | You could use NetBeans with Android too, of course. |
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| 11:04.02 | convivial | quite sure there is nb support |
| 11:04.19 | convivial | is intellij any gooed? |
| 11:04.22 | jasta | The team included some magic in Eclipse through a plugin that is familiar with Android. That plugin is entirely unnecessary, however. |
| 11:04.23 | convivial | *good |
| 11:04.37 | jasta | All the tools that it uses are included separately, and can be used as such. |
| 11:04.52 | jasta | convivial: Why don't you try it for yourself? |
| 11:05.36 | convivial | jasta I am. :) |
| 11:05.46 | jasta | Then tehre's no need to ask me. |
| 11:07.08 | varjag | jasta, the magic sometimes felt odd though :) |
| 11:07.20 | varjag | like, when it knew nothing about phone state change intents |
| 11:07.29 | varjag | but maybe just a glitch |
| 11:07.34 | jasta | possibly |
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| 11:12.29 | convivial | is it just a rumor that android will have C# programming too? |
| 11:12.42 | jasta | it is a rumor. |
| 11:20.49 | convivial | which version of eclipse are you guys running? 3.3.2 or that europa version? |
| 11:21.19 | convivial | decided to use same ide in examples first. |
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| 11:25.00 | convivial | geez, download mirrors are slow for eclipse ... took almost 2 minutes to download 79.3MB geez |
| 11:25.18 | convivial | they need some faster lines or something! |
| 11:27.14 | Stephmw | the intartubes, they be clogged up with all the porn |
| 11:28.19 | convivial | yes, I know... porn what a waste of bandwidth ... I feel so sorry for the men tryng to get satisfaction from porn.. |
| 11:28.49 | convivial | Stephmw: porne to should e banned on all of Inet and WWW! |
| 11:29.26 | Stephmw | convivial: oh I dunno, porn's gotta be useful for something. I'm sure it keeps marriages from breaking up ;) |
| 11:29.45 | Stephmw | anyway, all the innovation on the internet is sex related, including HD content |
| 11:29.56 | convivial | doubt it... sex is just a maens of reproduction.... love is what keep mariage |
| 11:30.38 | Stephmw | love by itself isn't sufficient, you need a bit of everything for a good marriage |
| 11:30.43 | Stephmw | speaks from experience |
| 11:31.31 | convivial | hmmmm, true, but sex is the least weighted parameter for a happpy marriage |
| 11:33.26 | muthu | lol |
| 11:33.40 | muthu | there's no internet, without porn |
| 11:34.07 | muthu | and am sure someone is working on that for android |
| 11:34.56 | Stephmw | the most PC-incorrect (and SFW) J2ME app I've come across is this one, http://www.getjar.com/products/48/MyGirls |
| 11:35.09 | Stephmw | the mere fact that someone would use it speaks volumes |
| 11:35.22 | muthu | what's that? |
| 11:35.42 | Stephmw | it's a multi-woman menstruation tracker |
| 11:35.47 | muthu | ah ah |
| 11:36.06 | muthu | love the small print, saying can handle multiple women! |
| 11:36.22 | duey | lol |
| 11:36.35 | Stephmw | and somewhere there's also a S60 app for customising the vibration alert on a handset... "for your pleasure" |
| 11:36.42 | Stephmw | 100k downloads too |
| 11:36.45 | muthu | lol |
| 11:36.52 | muthu | you see, that's innovation |
| 11:37.16 | muthu | who needs LBS and always on social networking.. when you custom set your vibration!! |
| 11:37.33 | Stephmw | for some reason, I could only see that being used in Japan |
| 11:37.36 | muthu | wow, combine it with LBS |
| 11:37.51 | muthu | Stephmw: you never know |
| 11:39.34 | varjag | pah Stephmw, you're everywhere :p |
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| 11:39.57 | Stephmw | varjag: yeah, I swear you stalk me |
| 11:40.14 | Stephmw | varjag: when your channel list matches mine, I'm calling the police |
| 11:40.19 | Stephmw | grins |
| 11:40.20 | varjag | hehe |
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| 11:52.05 | muthu | zhobbs: you there? |
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| 13:12.06 | ligi | hi there - just anounced my submission in the forum: http://www.anddev.org/viewtopic.php?p=7182 |
| 13:12.34 | mihoshi | traceview keep tuntiming: Exception in thread "main" java.lang.RuntimeException: Method exit (java/lang/ClassLoader.findLoaded |
| 13:12.34 | mihoshi | Class (Ljava/lang/String;)Ljava/lang/Class;) does not match current method (android/os/Debug.startCl |
| 13:12.34 | mihoshi | assPrep ()V) |
| 13:12.52 | mihoshi | What can be the problem? |
| 13:19.58 | mihoshi | It seems to act at random - first it fails, then when I relaunch everything, everything is alright. somethomes. And sometimes still broken... |
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| 15:00.10 | muthu | http://www.helloandroid.com/node/479 |
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| 15:05.12 | varjag | heh |
| 15:07.04 | zhobbs | nice writeup muthu :) |
| 15:07.16 | muthu | zhobbs: thanks |
| 15:07.20 | muthu | glad you liked it |
| 15:07.24 | muthu | hope the androids likey |
| 15:09.41 | michaelnovakjr_ | i'm surprised there wasn't any press coverage |
| 15:09.55 | muthu | yeah michael, google remains silent |
| 15:10.06 | zhobbs | yeah, there aren't a lot of articles about it |
| 15:10.11 | michaelnovakjr_ | i didn't even see the usual tech bloggers mentioning the end of the challenge |
| 15:10.25 | michaelnovakjr_ | i had a feeling google would be silent |
| 15:10.28 | muthu | guess they are holding it for later, grand prizes |
| 15:10.33 | muthu | michaelnovakjr_: why? |
| 15:11.06 | michaelnovakjr_ | its like dan morril said, they don't want people comparing android to platforms like win mobile that have been around for a lot longer |
| 15:11.26 | muthu | yeah, but i don't agree |
| 15:11.39 | muthu | comparisons are likely |
| 15:11.46 | ligi | michaelnovakjr_: i have blogged the end of challenge: http://ligi-tec.blogspot.com/2008/04/android-developer-challenge-submission.html ;-) |
| 15:11.58 | michaelnovakjr_ | of course |
| 15:12.37 | michaelnovakjr_ | i wanted to know how many submissions came in :) |
| 15:13.03 | ligi | ~ 1000 - i think |
| 15:13.40 | muthu | ligi: nice rant ;) |
| 15:13.40 | muthu | michaelnovakjr_: the number of submissions must be disclosed |
| 15:13.56 | muthu | more than 1000 |
| 15:14.24 | ligi | ;-) |
| 15:15.18 | jasta | yawn |
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| 15:15.31 | zhobbs | jasta: still not awake? |
| 15:15.39 | jasta | not really ;) |
| 15:16.40 | Lede | what is there are only 38 submissions |
| 15:16.43 | jasta | worked on my project last night :) |
| 15:16.45 | jasta | couldnt help myself |
| 15:16.47 | Lede | s/is/if |
| 15:17.13 | Lede | no |
| 15:17.20 | Lede | what if they extend the deadline again? |
| 15:17.28 | Lede | D-: |
| 15:17.31 | jasta | they won't ;) |
| 15:17.39 | zhobbs | haha, I'd be pissed |
| 15:17.55 | muthu | Lede: what? |
| 15:18.04 | muthu | its already closed |
| 15:18.12 | Lede | yeah i know |
| 15:18.17 | zhobbs | I was pissed the first time they extended it |
| 15:18.27 | muthu | I'm glad they did |
| 15:18.29 | muthu | :) |
| 15:18.59 | zhobbs | I was looking forward to a poor turnout :) |
| 15:19.16 | muthu | lol |
| 15:19.19 | Lede | yeah, i was a bit angry because i used my one week off trying to get by the deadline and then they announced they would extend it |
| 15:19.33 | Lede | i was like "Noooooooo!" |
| 15:19.57 | muthu | agree, it would be terrible for people who were ready |
| 15:20.17 | zhobbs | I was pretty close |
| 15:20.52 | zhobbs | but M5 fixed a lot of stuff, and changed the UI for the touchscreen which is good |
| 15:21.20 | zhobbs | so I def. understand why they would delay it |
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| 15:27.06 | michaelnovakjr_ | i am looking forward to the next sdk :) |
| 15:27.27 | ligi | me too - need bluetooth |
| 15:31.56 | michaelnovakjr_ | i wish mobile technology in america was a bit more like other places in the world. |
| 15:32.29 | ligi | michaelnovakjr_: whats the problem? |
| 15:33.38 | michaelnovakjr_ | its not integrated enough |
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| 16:22.32 | jasta | michaelnovakjr_: the US actually has a very good cellular network in terms of its scope and cost. |
| 16:22.46 | jasta | more impressive, i'd say, than most of Europe. |
| 16:23.25 | jasta | especially in terms of data, which is where Android is pushing. |
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| 16:43.52 | michaelnovakjr_ | wireless data networks should be made free, jasta |
| 16:44.13 | michaelnovakjr_ | you should be able to access a data network from anywhere :) government service :) |
| 16:44.23 | michaelnovakjr_ | ::wishful thinking:: |
| 16:45.24 | muthu | it will get there |
| 16:45.26 | muthu | eventually |
| 16:45.38 | poffy_ | Shouldn't be a goverment service |
| 16:45.48 | poffy_ | But hopefully, a private orginization should do it |
| 16:45.52 | poffy_ | (Google?) |
| 16:46.15 | muthu | Google gives everything for free, so it should be google |
| 16:46.58 | Lede | well free with advertisement |
| 16:47.15 | michaelnovakjr_ | as long as its free :) |
| 16:47.15 | muthu | yeah with ads |
| 16:47.20 | poffy_ | I'm fine with that as long as it isn't annoying |
| 16:47.48 | Lede | google doesnt only serve text ads .. |
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| 16:48.17 | Lede | besides, they may also look at it from another point |
| 16:48.27 | muthu | what? |
| 16:48.29 | Lede | more people on internet means more google users |
| 16:48.46 | Lede | muthu: what! |
| 16:48.53 | muthu | you mean from mobile? |
| 16:49.01 | poffy_ | which in turn means world domination? :O |
| 16:49.19 | Lede | muthu: mobile aswell |
| 16:50.05 | muthu | lede: thats something to think about |
| 16:51.27 | Lede | notices the mailinglist grinding to halt |
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| 16:53.23 | muthu | http://helloandroid.com/node/479 |
| 16:53.31 | muthu | someone wrote a nice article |
| 16:53.33 | muthu | ;) |
| 16:55.05 | jasta | you guys must be new to the mobile industry :) |
| 16:55.12 | jasta | just wait a year, you'll be sufficiently disenchanted :) |
| 16:57.18 | muthu | change would come |
| 16:57.18 | Stephmw | goes to read this idealistic article |
| 16:57.25 | jasta | it's a long road ahead to make things different. |
| 16:57.32 | jasta | and ...baby steps guys. |
| 16:57.44 | muthu | jasta: its not happening overnight |
| 16:57.55 | muthu | but has to happen |
| 16:57.57 | jasta | how about just getting carriers to all agree that unlimited data is the only sensible pricing plan? |
| 16:58.07 | Lede | "I wouldn't know how it feels hitting the submit button, because I never did. But I'm sure I would have felt the same way you did." |
| 16:58.38 | muthu | lede: feedback? |
| 16:58.41 | Lede | what i felt was "oh shit, did i just hit submit without double checking everything" |
| 16:58.53 | muthu | lol |
| 16:59.35 | jasta | i had this "oh god" feeling in my stomach that there would be some catastrophic failure in one small, non-essential part of the code |
| 16:59.43 | jasta | oh *SHIT* btw |
| 16:59.51 | jasta | the judges just opened my app! |
| 16:59.55 | jasta | just in the last minute |
| 17:00.03 | poffy_ | :O |
| 17:00.07 | zhobbs | really?? |
| 17:00.11 | poffy_ | logs on |
| 17:00.21 | Lede | jasta: is your program using a webservice? |
| 17:00.25 | muthu | true, if something breaks we are toast |
| 17:00.27 | Stephmw | jasta: you've first got to make them agree to a public and definitive definition of 'unlimited', 'data', 'sensible', 'plan' and 'agree' |
| 17:00.59 | michaelnovakjr__ | that is interesting |
| 17:01.11 | jasta | oh my god, my heart is pounding :) |
| 17:01.12 | michaelnovakjr__ | jasta sucks now you have to wait so long to know ;) |
| 17:01.41 | muthu | jasts: for real? |
| 17:01.44 | jasta | yes, for real. |
| 17:01.46 | jasta | new session: id=a1bd1f37-9136-4e5f-abc3-55aea7501268 (uri=http://66.182.0.171:5545/sync) |
| 17:01.50 | jasta | alert for remote db music: type=210, last=0, next=1208364126 |
| 17:01.52 | muthu | woah!! |
| 17:01.55 | jasta | that means someone is on it ;) |
| 17:02.07 | muthu | cool.. check the time |
| 17:02.08 | michaelnovakjr__ | locate the ip :) |
| 17:02.12 | jasta | i will, hang on |
| 17:02.20 | zhobbs | they going in alpha order? |
| 17:02.22 | jasta | btw, please no one fuck with that url :\ |
| 17:02.25 | zhobbs | "android-five" |
| 17:02.28 | michaelnovakjr__ | haha |
| 17:02.30 | jasta | i doubt it'll work, but just uhh, dont. |
| 17:02.33 | Stephmw | jasta: bit late now, it's already slashdotted |
| 17:02.38 | ligi | here a small video of my submission: |
| 17:02.43 | jasta | zhobbs: it was posted as Five. |
| 17:02.43 | ligi | http://www.vimeo.com/905980 |
| 17:03.10 | muthu | this is getting interesting by the minute |
| 17:03.12 | jasta | i am *freaking out* :) |
| 17:03.27 | muthu | the duration would be very interesting |
| 17:03.34 | muthu | how long the judges are using your app |
| 17:03.42 | poffy_ | Are they just doing the "see if app opens" test? |
| 17:03.56 | jasta | oh god... |
| 17:04.03 | jasta | 4.45.239.216.in-addr.arpaname = 216-239-45-4.google.com. |
| 17:04.05 | jasta | ;) |
| 17:04.08 | poffy_ | haha |
| 17:04.17 | muthu | shit! |
| 17:04.26 | muthu | really happening!! |
| 17:04.48 | poffy_ | I have my androidIRC Client up and running so I can see when someone gets on |
| 17:04.57 | Lede | maybe it's just a script opening the packages and trying to run them :o) |
| 17:04.58 | ligi | hehe |
| 17:05.01 | ligi | n1 |
| 17:05.05 | poffy_ | Lede, that's what I was thinking |
| 17:05.14 | muthu | no, it must be real |
| 17:05.19 | poffy_ | Cause they said apps would be tested before distrubed to all the judges |
| 17:06.39 | Lede | ligi: that looks pretty awesome |
| 17:06.56 | ligi | Lede: thanx |
| 17:07.47 | muthu | mikcrokopter.. it rocks |
| 17:08.14 | ligi | full ack |
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| 17:09.10 | Stephmw | ligi: next vid, from a cam on the flying beast? |
| 17:09.35 | ligi | Stephmw: flying android phone ^^ |
| 17:09.43 | ligi | with cam |
| 17:09.46 | Stephmw | kinda hard to control though, no? |
| 17:09.56 | ligi | no |
| 17:10.00 | ligi | easy |
| 17:10.07 | Kraln | has anyone else posted apks? =) |
| 17:10.08 | ligi | with gyros / acc / gps |
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| 17:11.03 | poffy_ | Hey Kraln |
| 17:17.43 | jasta | they finished syncing :) |
| 17:19.01 | jasta | hey, what gives. they finished syncing like a few minutes ago but haven't continued to use it. |
| 17:19.10 | Kraln | they probably put it down |
| 17:19.10 | jasta | maybe they just didn't notice yet |
| 17:19.34 | Kraln | how long does sync take again? 45 minutes? |
| 17:19.36 | jasta | they didn't cancel it, because the server is reporting success |
| 17:19.50 | poffy_ | jasta, this is your chance, activate the backdoor! |
| 17:20.08 | jasta | Kraln: about 35m, but it mentions why. |
| 17:20.39 | Kraln | jasta: so they probably started it and walked away for coffee or something |
| 17:20.44 | jasta | it's super inefficient right now, but stable. |
| 17:21.29 | jasta | the program itself even tells you why. basically, i didn't want to start tearing up the critical first step to my app just before i submitted it :) |
| 17:21.47 | Kraln | no no, I'm not denegrating your submission |
| 17:21.47 | jasta | and that i originally designed it using plain text XML and with the sync system normalized so that i could debug and test more easily |
| 17:21.58 | Kraln | just positing a possibility why they didn't immediately start using it after sync was done |
| 17:22.08 | Kraln | even I'm not pedantic enough to watch a progress bar for a half hour (usually...) |
| 17:22.10 | jasta | yeah, you're probably right. |
| 17:22.25 | jasta | well, at least it synced successfully ;) |
| 17:22.26 | Kraln | is your progress bar indefinite? or does it show an eta? |
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| 17:22.50 | jasta | it shows an ETA |
| 17:23.11 | jasta | but the ETA makes you feel very depressed because it really will take 35 minutes ;) |
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| 17:24.05 | jasta | though maybe this was just the first wave of testing to make sure it actually works |
| 17:24.35 | Kraln | perhaps they decompiled it and analyzed it to make sure you weren't haxxoring them |
| 17:24.54 | jasta | this was such an incredible feeling to see: |
| 17:24.55 | jasta | end session: id=a1bd1f37-9136-4e5f-abc3-55aea7501268 |
| 17:24.55 | jasta | ** Message: updating anchors in server db |
| 17:25.15 | jasta | that's what it does when it worked perfectly hehe |
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| 17:25.39 | jasta | though they still haven't used it yet. agghh! this is driving me mad ;0 |
| 17:25.39 | Kraln | it's always a great feeling to see your complex rube goldberg unravel perfectly |
| 17:25.53 | jasta | god i hope nothing went wrong :\ |
| 17:26.05 | Kraln | reeelaaxxx |
| 17:26.10 | poffy_ | NULL POINTER EXCEPTION |
| 17:26.29 | Kraln | what!? java doesn't have pointers! what does this mean!? |
| 17:26.41 | jasta | if the content service failed for any reason, it wouldnt show any more logging :( |
| 17:26.50 | Kraln | oh noo |
| 17:26.51 | jasta | Kraln: Yes, Java has exclusively pointers and primitives. |
| 17:26.52 | Kraln | :-( |
| 17:27.14 | Kraln | jasta: I know exactly what java has, m8. I'm just being foolish |
| 17:27.16 | poffy_ | oh shi- |
| 17:27.16 | jasta | And everything is pass-by-value. |
| 17:27.23 | poffy_ | You call tell I've started C++ again |
| 17:27.27 | poffy_ | pointers on the brain |
| 17:27.50 | jasta | actually, NPE is an exception you would see in Java. |
| 17:27.55 | poffy_ | oh ok |
| 17:27.59 | poffy_ | I'm not going crazy, then |
| 17:28.00 | jasta | and in fact, it would be the exception they'd see if the content service failed :) |
| 17:28.04 | poffy_ | THANKS FOR CONFUSING ME, KRALN |
| 17:28.15 | Kraln | you think you're confused? imagine if you had never seen C |
| 17:28.27 | Kraln | java doesn't have 'pointers' per se because you don't get memory access |
| 17:28.45 | Kraln | npe = reference to null |
| 17:28.54 | poffy_ | Yeah, that's what I thought |
| 17:29.47 | poffy_ | After working with Java, on this project, I still think I like C++ better |
| 17:30.08 | jasta | Actually, though Java describes itself as having eliminated pointers, they have done nothing of the sort. |
| 17:30.28 | muthu | jasta: where's the pointers? |
| 17:30.31 | jasta | What they have done is remove certain operators, such as increment and decrement. |
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| 17:31.19 | jasta | Though assignment is still permitted, of course. |
| 17:31.55 | jasta | muthu: As I said, the language has only two basic types, pointers and primitives, despite the specification incorrectly claiming that there are no pointers. |
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| 17:32.22 | jasta | If you consider what a pointer means in the context of the language that canonized it (C), how does Java differ? What semantics has Java fundamentally altered to the concept? |
| 17:32.54 | jasta | As I said, they have reduced the set of operators that can act on a pointer, but have changed nothing else. |
| 17:34.08 | jasta | They also introduced a layer of strong and weak references, as well, though that is not especially particular to the language but more to its designated VM. |
| 17:35.39 | jasta | Instead I presume they would want to call their new variation a reference, however according to C's original definition of reference that is not valid either. |
| 17:35.59 | jasta | Instead, in the context of C, it is a pointer with reduced operators and a system of reference tracking. |
| 17:36.11 | jasta | But, I will concede that defining one language in terms of another is foolish ;) |
| 17:36.46 | muthu | right |
| 17:38.16 | jasta | i'm just trying to keep my brain busy... i'm pretty sure that my app bombed out on them and that's why they have not proceeded :( |
| 17:38.38 | muthu | relax |
| 17:38.49 | jasta | they haven't actually downloaded any music though! :( |
| 17:39.05 | muthu | they would have got the concept and the idea |
| 17:39.31 | jasta | sigh, i guess |
| 17:40.05 | Kraln | maybe they're creeped out that you're watching them |
| 17:40.12 | muthu | lol |
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| 17:40.26 | muthu | hey judges, run five..now! |
| 17:41.14 | jerkface03 | what? |
| 17:43.20 | jasta | it just makes me nervous that they ran into that race condition the first time they try to play music :( |
| 17:43.28 | jasta | it's totally possible to hit just tinkering around, sigh |
| 17:43.32 | jasta | at least i mentioned it in my README |
| 17:43.41 | muthu | is there a workaround? |
| 17:43.55 | jasta | yeah, you just hit force quit and click on the song again :) |
| 17:44.04 | muthu | ok |
| 17:44.13 | Kraln | jasta: It would suck if you got boned by a race condition |
| 17:44.17 | jasta | and then it will continue working for the duration of thesession |
| 17:44.21 | jasta | oh shit, there it goes!!!! |
| 17:44.30 | muthu | cool |
| 17:44.44 | jasta | what a bunch of lame asses, they clicked the first entry in the list and the first song |
| 17:44.54 | muthu | lol |
| 17:44.57 | Kraln | you should feed them hypnotic music |
| 17:45.02 | Kraln | "you will pick my entry, it is the best" |
| 17:45.04 | ligi | lol |
| 17:45.10 | jasta | sending /home/jguilfoyle/music.five.copyright-free/A/Alexi Murdoch/Time Without Consequence/01 - All My Days.mp3... |
| 17:45.11 | Kraln | overlaid on all the tracks |
| 17:45.14 | jasta | ;) |
| 17:45.31 | Kraln | jasta: creative commons licensed? brilliant |
| 17:45.54 | ligi | my app is totaly useless without a mikrokopter device - wonder what they will do |
| 17:46.05 | *** join/#android morrildl (n=chatzill@nat/google/x-412a03926982f16f) |
| 17:46.08 | ligi | Kraln: mine iss cc too |
| 17:46.27 | ligi | Kraln: with non military addition |
| 17:46.27 | muthu | this is great jasta |
| 17:48.18 | muthu | now we know the judges are in action |
| 17:48.35 | morrildl | is not a judge |
| 17:48.44 | morrildl | at least, not right now |
| 17:48.54 | Kraln | all you know is that someone at google is poking with stuff |
| 17:48.59 | Kraln | you don't know if they're a judge or not |
| 17:49.18 | Kraln | morrildl: did you see my entry? It's open source / posted on google code =) |
| 17:49.43 | morrildl | Kraln: I saw your site, although I have not encountered it in the actual submission list |
| 17:49.55 | morrildl | looks pretty cool :) |
| 17:50.03 | Kraln | cool =) |
| 17:50.25 | Kraln | that was the one criteria I wasn't certain we nailed. =) |
| 17:50.32 | morrildl | heh heh |
| 17:50.53 | morrildl | is currently tweaking the administration process to handle submissions with multiple apks |
| 17:51.33 | zhobbs | morrildl: is it all automated for the judges? |
| 17:51.34 | Kraln | didn't expect that, didja! =) |
| 17:51.46 | morrildl | zhobbs: yep |
| 17:51.59 | zhobbs | morrildl: you'd have to automate it, esp with all those entries...how many was it again? |
| 17:52.12 | morrildl | we are shipping laptops to the judges to do judging on, so that each judge has an identical experience |
| 17:52.20 | jasta | morrildl: hehe, like mine? :) |
| 17:52.21 | zhobbs | cool |
| 17:52.30 | morrildl | we don't want some judges scoring people down for being "slow" when their virus scanner is going nuts or something |
| 17:52.32 | jasta | morrildl: is that you that's connected btw? :) |
| 17:52.37 | morrildl | jasta: yes :) |
| 17:52.50 | romainguy_ | so I can't resist to quote jasta |
| 17:52.51 | jasta | ....wellllll? :) |
| 17:52.52 | romainguy_ | "jasta: what a bunch of lame asses, they clicked the first entry in the list and the first song" |
| 17:52.52 | morrildl | Dr. Sbaitso all over again |
| 17:52.53 | romainguy_ | :)) |
| 17:53.15 | jasta | morrildl: i am enjoying watching the system pre-empt you :) |
| 17:53.18 | jasta | preempt* |
| 17:53.27 | morrildl | well, I tried clicking on the Strokes and Arcade Fire while it was syncing but there was no content yet |
| 17:53.31 | *** join/#android Yeggstry (n=mind@cpc1-rdng14-0-0-cust946.winn.cable.ntl.com) |
| 17:53.40 | jasta | morrildl: Yeah, don't do that. It will hate you. |
| 17:53.53 | morrildl | ...or at least mildly disapprove |
| 17:53.53 | jasta | What I plan tod o moving forward is make the sync process atomic completely. |
| 17:54.05 | jasta | So that while it's syncing, none of the new data will be visible in the UI |
| 17:54.17 | jasta | but Android's goofy ContentProvider schema made that hard to figure a good way to do it. |
| 17:54.33 | morrildl | zhobbs: we had $LOTS submissions |
| 17:54.34 | jasta | I don't want to make a dummy content URI query that does begin transaction and stuff. Plus, it doesn't seem like it would work. |
| 17:54.59 | morrildl | zhobbs: unfortunately I don't know how to get a shell macro expansion to work in my IRC client ;) |
| 17:55.06 | jasta | morrildl: the festival output sure is annoying, huh? :) |
| 17:55.11 | Kraln | morrildl: /exec |
| 17:55.21 | morrildl | HELLO MY NAME IS DOCTOR SBAITSO |
| 17:55.38 | morrildl | I AM HERE TO HELP YOU SAY WHATEVER IS ON YOUR MIND FREELY OUR CONVERSATION WILL BE KEPT IN STRICT CONFIDENCE |
| 17:55.45 | morrildl | MEMORY CONTENTS WILL BE WIPED OFF AFTER YOU LEVAE |
| 17:56.14 | zhobbs | morrildl: there's 145 on HelloAndroid, is that less than 1/4? :) |
| 17:56.32 | morrildl | That is bigger than a breadbox. |
| 17:56.49 | Kraln | morrildl: you're failing the turing test -.- |
| 17:57.42 | morrildl | Kraln: Am I? Or are YOU????? |
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| 17:58.22 | muthu | morrildl: when does the judging start?\ |
| 17:58.26 | Lede | DUN DUN DUN DUN!! |
| 17:59.53 | muthu | the laptop loaded with all apk's? |
| 18:01.06 | muthu | morrildl: any change a cooking app will win? ;) |
| 18:01.10 | muthu | *chance |
| 18:02.02 | Lede | what does your cooking application do |
| 18:02.09 | muthu | cook ;) |
| 18:02.13 | Stephmw | muthu: only if it cooks the food for the judges |
| 18:02.14 | Lede | lol |
| 18:02.27 | muthu | yeah that's what it does :) |
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| 18:02.34 | Kraln | does it get them a pillow? |
| 18:02.40 | muthu | lol |
| 18:02.45 | muthu | if it wins i take the credit |
| 18:03.03 | muthu | if it loses my friend takes the blame |
| 18:03.05 | muthu | :) |
| 18:03.18 | Lede | playing it safe |
| 18:03.29 | muthu | lede: basically cooking show delivered |
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| 18:03.54 | Lede | like "what could i eat today tips" and stuff? |
| 18:04.04 | muthu | yes.. with shop list, recipes |
| 18:04.14 | muthu | etc., |
| 18:04.27 | Lede | that could be useful i guess |
| 18:04.28 | f00f- | dude your app better cook for me |
| 18:04.29 | muthu | you can share, find market |
| 18:04.33 | morrildl | muthu: suree |
| 18:04.40 | muthu | yay! |
| 18:04.50 | muthu | make it win, i want to come for Google I/O |
| 18:04.53 | muthu | ;) |
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| 18:06.17 | Lede | morrildl: why are there no events in the netherlands :/ |
| 18:07.24 | muthu | all events happen only in the valley.. i've come to terms with it |
| 18:07.46 | muthu | *bleeding edge events |
| 18:09.29 | jasta | morrildl: so, are all the judges in the US? would it be reasonable to think that our apps won't be judged well outside of normal business hours PST? |
| 18:09.51 | muthu | where are the judges? are they worldwide? |
| 18:09.53 | jasta | not that i'd do anything to rely on this, i'm just curious ;) |
| 18:10.08 | Lede | the judges live outside of the matrix |
| 18:10.13 | Lede | dun dun dun! |
| 18:14.39 | mihoshi | I have afeeling that Android SDK updates itself from the net... It's behaviour change slightly over time without obvious reasons |
| 18:14.52 | mihoshi | Or may be I'm just paranoid... |
| 18:15.06 | muthu | no way |
| 18:15.11 | benley | I think you're just paranoid |
| 18:15.16 | muthu | the sdk will not update itself |
| 18:15.25 | michaelnovakjr_1 | haha |
| 18:18.02 | morrildl | jasta: judges are worldwide |
| 18:18.36 | morrildl | if you have a server component you will almost certainly see accesses from all hours |
| 18:18.48 | Kraln | morrildl: do they all speak at minimum english? |
| 18:19.01 | morrildl | Kraln: yes |
| 18:19.11 | muthu | wow, worldwide |
| 18:19.18 | Kraln | good. I didn't have time to write multiple string.xml files for i18n |
| 18:19.19 | B0jangles | Heh: J2ME |
| 18:19.24 | B0jangles | Judge 2 Minimum English |
| 18:19.29 | michaelnovakjr_1 | hhaha |
| 18:19.36 | Lede | oh wow |
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| 18:24.36 | jasta | well, that was exciting today seeing my server spit stuff out :) |
| 18:25.11 | f00f- | judging has started? |
| 18:25.21 | B0jangles | jasta: what do you mean? |
| 18:26.01 | jasta | f00f-: no, it was just morrildl tinkering. perhaps they're doing a pre-round to test the apps that work and tidy up the submissions for the judges |
| 18:26.28 | jasta | morrildl mentioned that he's tweaking stuff to make multiple apks work, which my app uses. so that's probably why he was testing. |
| 18:26.35 | jasta | i don't know, just speculating. |
| 18:26.49 | f00f- | okay, seems to make sense |
| 18:27.09 | muthu | jasta: you had multiple apk's? |
| 18:27.38 | jasta | yes. |
| 18:27.48 | muthu | is that allowed? |
| 18:28.01 | jasta | apparently, if morrildl is adjusting their system to support it :) |
| 18:28.02 | muthu | was under the impression that only a single apk must be submitted |
| 18:28.05 | jasta | maybe he's doing it just for me, muwhahah |
| 18:28.19 | muthu | great |
| 18:28.27 | muthu | now its confirmed |
| 18:28.28 | morrildl | muthu: technically yes, single APKs |
| 18:28.33 | Lede | weird |
| 18:28.46 | morrildl | however waaaaaaaaaaaay early on I told people multiple APKs was okay and then forgot about it |
| 18:28.54 | muthu | oh ok |
| 18:29.04 | muthu | and jasta took advantage of it ;) |
| 18:29.10 | morrildl | and it would be deeply lame to screw those people, so I bit the bullet and added support :) |
| 18:29.15 | morrildl | jasta got lucky ;) |
| 18:29.16 | jasta | i maintain that google would be wrong to not accept multiple apks, since that's how they are distributing and building their own projects anyway. |
| 18:29.29 | morrildl | yeah, it was an administrative thing anyway |
| 18:29.40 | muthu | morrildl: you did the right thing |
| 18:29.45 | morrildl | and in the absence of detailed instructions on that score, I just added the support |
| 18:29.49 | jasta | exactly, not a technical perspective. but thank you either way morrildl :) |
| 18:30.27 | jasta | for example if i was to have written some sort of game library or whats-it, i would have also distributed my app this way. one demos package, one core package. |
| 18:30.29 | muthu | i know a few, who merged their multiple apk's into one |
| 18:30.33 | muthu | the last day |
| 18:30.34 | jasta | ebcause no one would ever combine them for release. |
| 18:31.03 | davidw | damn |
| 18:31.25 | morrildl | yeah |
| 18:31.39 | morrildl | heh |
| 18:31.48 | davidw | I totally would have sent in two apk's for my client's submission, but I had to add in support for stashing external Java .class files into the Hecl package generation process |
| 18:31.51 | Lede | morrildl: so does $LOTS means thousands or hundreds :o) |
| 18:31.54 | davidw | instead |
| 18:31.55 | morrildl | We had exactly 2 submissions that provided custom geodb files |
| 18:32.09 | morrildl | I spent a significant amount of time on support for that |
| 18:32.11 | morrildl | hehehehe |
| 18:32.25 | davidw | and it's already an ugly process |
| 18:32.28 | muthu | i thought people would do that - providing custom geodb |
| 18:32.36 | muthu | because it makes sense |
| 18:34.17 | muthu | morrildl: how's thewinners announced? website? email? |
| 18:34.30 | morrildl | muthu: no idea, not my department :) |
| 18:34.33 | morrildl | probably all of the above |
| 18:34.36 | morrildl | plus a press release or something |
| 18:34.41 | muthu | great |
| 18:34.47 | benley | ed mcmahon shows up at your door to inform you |
| 18:34.53 | muthu | woah |
| 18:35.06 | muthu | lol |
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| 18:35.28 | rhett | hey guys |
| 18:35.35 | Lede | waves his hand infront of morrildl |
| 18:35.39 | muthu | hey |
| 18:35.43 | rhett | well I got my app in, thank goodness |
| 18:36.01 | Lede | so are there like thousands or hundreds applications? |
| 18:36.14 | muthu | thousands for sure |
| 18:36.24 | rhett | I wish we got back some kind of md5 sum to be sure they recieved it |
| 18:36.32 | rhett | wow, really thousands? |
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| 18:36.43 | muthu | yes |
| 18:36.44 | rhett | there are 9000 people subscribed to the google group |
| 18:36.44 | michaelnovakjr_1 | they should just give everyone here an award for being champs :) |
| 18:36.45 | Lede | i don't know, he wont speak |
| 18:37.19 | rhett | are there a lot more public apps now? |
| 18:37.25 | davidw | michaelnovakjr, I think they should give everyone a free phone:-) |
| 18:37.37 | muthu | a phone would be nice |
| 18:37.48 | morrildl | who now? |
| 18:37.58 | morrildl | what's that Lede? |
| 18:38.02 | morrildl | oh |
| 18:38.05 | morrildl | Can't say right now :) |
| 18:38.17 | Lede | :( |
| 18:38.29 | muthu | i guessed 10000 |
| 18:38.34 | muthu | is that way off? |
| 18:38.36 | michaelnovakjr_1 | morridl, and this is the anticipation two days after :) |
| 18:38.41 | Lede | morrildl: over 9000 |
| 18:38.47 | Lede | oops wrong tab complete |
| 18:38.56 | Lede | meant to say that to muthu |
| 18:38.58 | davidw | is it bigger than a breadbox? |
| 18:39.17 | morrildl | davidw: Yes. |
| 18:39.34 | davidw | wow, sounds clunky... guess I'll stick with nokia;-) |
| 18:39.48 | muthu | i am yet to figure out why keeping the submission number a secret makes sense |
| 18:40.06 | davidw | muthu, they're worried about their competitors getting information |
| 18:40.32 | rhett | muthu, because google is a billion dollar company with a board and marketing department |
| 18:40.34 | muthu | davidw: how's the numbers helping the competition? |
| 18:40.43 | rhett | amazon won't even say how many kindle's sold |
| 18:40.52 | Kraln | do no evil huh |
| 18:40.55 | Kraln | =) |
| 18:41.17 | muthu | rhett: so somethings ought to be secret, huh |
| 18:41.19 | davidw | muthu, I'm Sun, and I can say "only 10,000 submissions? we have 10 times that number of applications shipping right now from java.net" or something like that |
| 18:41.42 | Lede | yeah |
| 18:41.48 | Lede | davidw has a point |
| 18:41.49 | muthu | yeah, but android can always say its only alpha |
| 18:42.06 | davidw | hey, don't ask me to delve that deep into the minds of the marketers |
| 18:42.33 | muthu | the new age marketing is transparency |
| 18:42.40 | muthu | word of mouth |
| 18:42.47 | muthu | i heard seth godin is big in google |
| 18:42.52 | muthu | haven't they read him? |
| 18:42.54 | muthu | ;) |
| 18:44.24 | michaelnovakjr_1 | has anyone put their apk online yet? |
| 18:45.28 | Lede | i havnt |
| 18:45.30 | davidw | michaelnovakjr, sure, along with all the source code |
| 18:45.54 | poffy_ | http://code.google.com/p/androidchat/ |
| 18:47.05 | ligi | michaelnovakjr_1: only the sources |
| 18:48.24 | michaelnovakjr_1 | cool, i'm going to post my 0.2 update very soon |
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| 18:56.52 | pawalls_ | Kraln, Actually the quote is "Don't be evil", contrary to popular belief :-P |
| 18:58.34 | Kraln | ah, yes. written on the wall by an engineer before a business meeting |
| 19:01.56 | pawalls_ | I think it's possible that some peoples' perception of "evil" is a bit skewed. I personally don't see how not releasing a count of submissions the day after submissions have ceased is particularly evil in the grand scheme of things. :-P |
| 19:02.16 | poffy_ | ^ |
| 19:02.29 | zhobbs | maybe the number is 666? |
| 19:02.48 | pawalls_ | chuckles. |
| 19:03.06 | muthu | 9999 |
| 19:03.18 | zhobbs | I agree though, they're pretty much hooking us up with $5 million for this time around..so cant complain too much |
| 19:03.25 | poffy_ | Probably just around 9,000 |
| 19:07.50 | poffy_ | Has there been any announcement about the next release of the SDK? |
| 19:08.02 | zhobbs | nope |
| 19:08.18 | zhobbs | probably never will be announcements about new SDK's...they'll just release them |
| 19:08.25 | poffy_ | oh ok |
| 19:08.37 | zhobbs | they're sneaky |
| 19:08.40 | morrildl | heh |
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| 19:08.57 | morrildl | well, there are pre-announcements and then there is just basic roadmap info |
| 19:09.28 | morrildl | the real answer is: c'mon, let me finish this judging thing first :) |
| 19:10.34 | poffy_ | May 5th is when winners are announced, right? |
| 19:11.55 | zhobbs | I think so |
| 19:12.14 | zhobbs | that might have been tentative though |
| 19:12.22 | morrildl | Well |
| 19:12.25 | morrildl | It's not tentative |
| 19:12.41 | morrildl | On the other hand, it was chosen before we knew how many submissions we would get :) |
| 19:14.00 | muthu | we trust in google response time |
| 19:14.10 | muthu | so the results will be out on may 5 for sure |
| 19:15.03 | davidw | eheheh |
| 19:15.04 | rhett | morrildl, i'm interested in the larger prize phase. Will there be pressure on the top 50 to improve their apps for a month to compete for the larger awards? |
| 19:15.15 | davidw | *we've* been working nights and weekends. Your turn:-> |
| 19:15.18 | rhett | or maybe require that they submit with a new sdk |
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| 19:16.16 | rhett | i suspose google is probably thinking about that now |
| 19:16.30 | poffy_ | I want frame-by-frame animations fixed :) |
| 19:16.33 | poffy_ | Then I can do a game |
| 19:16.35 | rhett | it makes a big difference though, if I should be working on my app now to get a head start for the next phase |
| 19:16.45 | muthu | rhett: you mean some of the winners might not continue? |
| 19:17.06 | Kraln | I'm interested if google is thinking of absorbing some of the winners |
| 19:17.12 | Kraln | to know if* |
| 19:17.22 | zhobbs | rhett: the apps will be rejudged, so I would recommend improved the app between I and II...because others will improve theirs I'm sure |
| 19:17.26 | romainguy_ | poffy_: it is fixed :p |
| 19:17.35 | poffy_ | Really? |
| 19:17.44 | muthu | ah that's another interesting angle.. how many are going to google? |
| 19:17.45 | rhett | I mean, after the 50 winners are announced, the real prize is competing for the $100k-$225k |
| 19:17.46 | romainguy_ | just not in M5 :) |
| 19:17.51 | poffy_ | yeah, that's what I thought |
| 19:17.51 | poffy_ | heh |
| 19:18.14 | poffy_ | I was just starting to learn Java and Android and I wanted to do a simple animation |
| 19:18.20 | poffy_ | God, frame-by-frame was making me mad |
| 19:18.30 | poffy_ | Until I read on the groups that it was buggy |
| 19:18.53 | romainguy_ | that said it's pretty simple to do your own |
| 19:19.34 | poffy_ | Using viewflipper? |
| 19:20.04 | romainguy_ | no, just writing your own drawing code |
| 19:20.07 | romainguy_ | or your own drawable |
| 19:20.21 | davidw | "easy for leonardo" |
| 19:20.23 | poffy_ | Hm, yeah |
| 19:20.36 | poffy_ | I suppose that's why I wanna know when the next SDK is coming |
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| 19:20.54 | poffy_ | to decide whether or not I want to put time into creating a drawable that will be worthless once the new SDK hits |
| 19:21.04 | romainguy_ | ask morrildl :) |
| 19:21.25 | poffy_ | heh |
| 19:24.27 | muthu | good night droids |
| 19:24.35 | jasta | hey romain |
| 19:24.40 | romainguy_ | yo |
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| 19:30.15 | zhobbs | morrildl: are the judges going to test the same apps at the same time and discuss? Or do you just send the laptops and all the judges work at their own pace? |
| 19:30.26 | morrildl | zhobbs: the latter |
| 19:32.27 | poffy_ | morrildl, can I please have a list of the judges and their addresses? I'm baking some cupcakes and cookies. |
| 19:32.46 | poffy_ | with the word "AndroidChat" on them |
| 19:32.49 | AstainHellbring | no xlax cookies allowed |
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| 19:41.44 | poffy_ | AstainHellbring, why would I send xlax cookies with "AndroidChat" on them? |
| 19:42.52 | AstainHellbring | I dunno... |
| 19:42.52 | AstainHellbring | I was just being silly |
| 19:42.52 | poffy_ | oh ok |
| 19:42.52 | poffy_ | What's the name of your entry? |
| 19:42.52 | Kraln | can we try it? |
| 19:42.52 | poffy_ | Cause I could send xlax cookies with your entry's name on them |
| 19:42.52 | poffy_ | :D |
| 19:43.17 | AstainHellbring | lol I have no entry not a programmer |
| 19:43.35 | poffy_ | oh ok |
| 19:43.50 | Kraln | <PROTECTED> |
| 19:45.33 | AstainHellbring | kinda |
| 19:45.38 | AstainHellbring | mostly just a network guy |
| 19:46.22 | poffy_ | Someone should make a shirt that says that, with the fighter |
| 19:46.26 | poffy_ | from FFIII |
| 19:47.28 | Lede | final fantasy |
| 19:47.31 | Lede | \o/ |
| 19:47.42 | Lede | is playing ffxii atm |
| 19:47.55 | AstainHellbring | nice |
| 19:48.04 | AstainHellbring | me too games nice |
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| 20:16.31 | michaelnovakjr__ | i must say ubuntu 8.04 is graphically really awesome |
| 20:33.39 | davidw | yeah? |
| 20:42.53 | *** join/#android Dougie187 (n=doug@c-68-35-247-131.hsd1.fl.comcast.net) |
| 20:45.10 | michaelnovakjr__ | excellent davidw |
| 20:45.22 | michaelnovakjr__ | especially if you have accelerated graphics :) |
| 20:45.59 | *** part/#android morrildl (n=chatzill@nat/google/x-412a03926982f16f) |
| 20:46.05 | *** join/#android morrildl (n=chatzill@nat/google/x-412a03926982f16f) |
| 20:48.11 | Stephmw | michaelnovakjr__: is it out of beta already? |
| 20:49.05 | *** join/#android tmccrary (n=tmccrary@68.78.185.227) |
| 20:49.46 | tmccrary | Does anyone know approximately when the first android hardware will be out? Are there going to be any early release developer kits w/ hardware available for purchase? |
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| 20:51.44 | zhobbs | jasta: you seen this: http://www.bonecoder.com/ |
| 20:53.21 | tmccrary | The reason I ask is that the emulated version in the SDK just isn't powerful enough to do anything beyond a cube in 3d |
| 20:53.38 | edcba | and ? |
| 20:54.17 | tmccrary | edcba: You powers of comprehension astound me, edcba |
| 20:54.34 | f00f- | michaelnovakjr__: what's so special with 8.04? |
| 20:54.47 | *** join/#android dpino (n=dpino@cm217028.red91-117.mundo-r.com) |
| 20:55.20 | edcba | maybe ubuntu 1.0 was not |
| 20:55.44 | romainguy_ | tmccrary: it depends on your host machine |
| 20:56.13 | tmccrary | romainguy_: Wow, are you Romain Guy the Filthy Rich Clients guy? |
| 20:56.18 | romainguy_ | yes |
| 20:56.35 | tmccrary | romainguy_: Cool, I read your blog once in while ;) |
| 20:56.39 | romainguy_ | :) |
| 20:56.41 | Dougie187 | f00f-: http://www.ubuntu.com/testing/hardy/beta#head-e55186d5d312cfd6b8d74a407dbef271a1edfc46 |
| 20:57.51 | edcba | but what is the problem with having a slow emulator ? |
| 20:58.01 | f00f- | nothing special there |
| 20:58.10 | Dougie187 | depends what your looking for. |
| 20:58.15 | Dougie187 | some people see a lot. |
| 20:58.34 | tmccrary | just being slow isn't as big of a deal, but the crashing part is what gets me |
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| 20:58.56 | f00f- | i run xorg with AIGLX here and compiz fusion |
| 20:59.00 | f00f- | on 7.x |
| 20:59.02 | tmccrary | although maybe I should reinstall the sdk, just to make sure it isn't a local problem |
| 20:59.36 | Dougie187 | KVM is a big deal to some people. |
| 20:59.46 | Dougie187 | and the windows stuff would make it easier to let windows users test it out |
| 20:59.46 | f00f- | oh didnt see KVM |
| 20:59.54 | f00f- | kernel thing though |
| 21:00.00 | Dougie187 | true |
| 21:00.09 | Dougie187 | and the memory protection |
| 21:00.29 | Dougie187 | wubi seems cool, but i doubt i will use it ever |
| 21:00.38 | f00f- | memory protection like PaX ? |
| 21:00.45 | f00f- | heh, i love kernels |
| 21:00.49 | f00f- | i run 2.6.10 in production |
| 21:00.53 | f00f- | and it's immune from security threats |
| 21:00.59 | f00f- | intorudced in 2.6.20 range |
| 21:01.05 | f00f- | grsecurity/PaX own |
| 21:01.16 | Dougie187 | I dont think its PaX. |
| 21:01.19 | Dougie187 | but i may be wrong. |
| 21:01.31 | Dougie187 | either way. |
| 21:01.38 | Dougie187 | most of the benefits you can install seperatly. |
| 21:01.48 | Dougie187 | oh, one other thing could be policy kit, for administrators. |
| 21:02.20 | Dougie187 | though i have never tried to administer ubuntu |
| 21:03.27 | Dougie187 | like inkscape, or ufw |
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| 21:04.07 | Dougie187 | either way. |
| 21:04.10 | Dougie187 | im out. |
| 21:04.12 | Dougie187 | see ya |
| 21:04.13 | *** part/#android Dougie187 (n=doug@c-68-35-247-131.hsd1.fl.comcast.net) |
| 21:07.45 | f00f- | cheers |
| 21:08.18 | *** join/#android Jimx (n=Jimx@80.248.214.43) |
| 21:10.37 | jasta | yawn |
| 21:14.12 | jasta | zhobbs: I did see that, but I don't quite get it. |
| 21:14.22 | jasta | I mean, there's nothing concrete here. |
| 21:14.56 | *** part/#android Jimx (n=Jimx@80.248.214.43) |
| 21:15.04 | jasta | Also, it's unclear if they've tackled the correct problem. Just simply connecting your phone to your PC is insufficient. |
| 21:15.22 | jasta | Also, they seem to require an account so they must have some intermediate service somewhere? That seems questionable... |
| 21:16.07 | jasta | but i'm intrigued none-the-less. |
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| 21:20.56 | dpino | were you talking about miControl? |
| 21:21.48 | jasta | what? |
| 21:22.47 | dpino | this app |
| 21:22.48 | dpino | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a4lSGY-UvZw |
| 21:23.26 | dpino | I just catch up your conversation in the middle, dunno were you guys talking about |
| 21:23.45 | dpino | but it sounded like this, connecting remotely from android to a computer |
| 21:25.43 | edcba | why not just hosting a website on computer ? |
| 21:26.58 | edcba | except for bluetooth part maybe |
| 21:30.31 | jasta | dpino: no, we were talking about my app |
| 21:30.40 | jasta | though i like that thing miControl thing :) |
| 21:30.41 | f00f- | love your screenshots |
| 21:30.42 | f00f- | jasta |
| 21:30.48 | zhobbs | jasta: agreed, not sure why you would need an account when you run the server on your own computer? |
| 21:30.51 | jasta | thanks :) |
| 21:31.03 | jasta | zhobbs: Right, something doesn't seem right about the way they have designed this. |
| 21:31.16 | jasta | zhobbs: And it's unclear if it even exists :) |
| 21:31.30 | jasta | f00f-: I still want to produce a video some time soon |
| 21:31.42 | jasta | And possibly even release the thing for folks to play with |
| 21:32.19 | jasta | though in order to do that i will need another week or so of development to make things a little less clunky and debug-like :) |
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| 21:32.36 | zhobbs | jasta: found out about it at http://androidguys.com/2008/04/16/developer-spotlight-series-7/ |
| 21:32.43 | jasta | mostly, improving the sync performance and making the server interact with freedesktop and put configuration up and stuff. |
| 21:32.57 | dpino | jasta: love your controls, finally you made the bitmap reflection |
| 21:33.02 | zhobbs | I like the answer for "Did you run into any competition with your application? Anybody else doing something like this from what youâve seen?" |
| 21:33.08 | jasta | zhobbs: I don't know about you, but I find androidguys.com annoying. I wish it wasn't part of planetandroid.com |
| 21:33.32 | jasta | dpino: Yeah, that was somewhat tricky. |
| 21:33.41 | zhobbs | well they aren't technical |
| 21:33.45 | jasta | And it doesn't look spectacular for all album artwork. |
| 21:34.10 | jasta | zhobbs: At some point once Android starts maturing, I will remove myself from planetandroid.com just because the content is too wordy and political for me :) |
| 21:34.46 | dpino | I read about it yesterday in the channel , you couldnt make it as romainguy told you in the beginning... |
| 21:34.53 | zhobbs | I never really go to planet android...just have a bunch of android RSS feeds |
| 21:35.11 | zhobbs | I like headlines |
| 21:36.36 | jasta | dpino: No, because he was wrong about it being possible to use a shader while drawing a bitmap. |
| 21:37.07 | dpino | I see, so how you make the gradient? |
| 21:37.08 | jasta | Instead, he suggested I use a ComposeShader made up of a BitmapShader and my original LinearGradient shader |
| 21:37.15 | jasta | and then, instead of drawing a bitmap, draw a simple rectangle. |
| 21:37.43 | jasta | the paint's ComposeShader then handles drawing the image and the LinearGradient applied |
| 21:37.58 | jasta | then on top of that, I have another white to black LinearGradient behind the controls bar. |
| 21:38.07 | jasta | So what you're seeing is complex: there are two types of shaders being seen. |
| 21:38.24 | jasta | one which is giving it a sort of water-look and another which is adding texture to the controls bar |
| 21:39.23 | jasta | it's a pretty effect ;) |
| 21:39.33 | jasta | and, remarkably, it is not slow. |
| 21:39.41 | dpino | yeah, its cool indeed |
| 21:40.10 | jasta | zhobbs: It certainly seems like his head is in the same area as mine, though I guess we'll see about the devil in the details. |
| 21:40.36 | jasta | I'm still willing to bet that he tackles the problem all wrong. Synchronizing meta data passively is very critical to providing a responsive UI. |
| 21:40.51 | jasta | If any of the main UI screens require an active download, users will be pissed. |
| 21:41.37 | zhobbs | jasta: does your app poll the server for updates? |
| 21:41.48 | jasta | Currently, yes. Eventually, no. :) |
| 21:42.06 | jasta | I plan to have the server alert the phone via GTalk when updates are ready. Then, the phone will connect and sync. |
| 21:42.39 | zhobbs | gotcha |
| 21:43.00 | jasta | zhobbs: Also, regarding his app, I think he may have taken a much too ambitious approach for the ADC, assuming he submitted. |
| 21:43.02 | zhobbs | you use AlarmManager to spawn the update check or an always on service? |
| 21:43.25 | jasta | i thought it best to focus on one instance, the music player, and make that work and look great. expanding the system when it is ready. |
| 21:43.39 | jasta | zhobbs: AlarmManager, though that code is disabled for the version I sent to the ADC |
| 21:43.48 | jasta | since their server is unchanging, and a subsequent sync would do nothing. |
| 21:44.17 | zhobbs | gotcha |
| 21:44.38 | jasta | none of my services are persistent. The playlist is the most persistent and it is scheduled to die after 15 minutes of inactivity. |
| 21:44.50 | jasta | the others die immediately when they are done |
| 21:45.04 | jasta | (assuming they're not connected to anything) |
| 21:45.06 | zhobbs | does the playlist play the music? |
| 21:45.19 | jasta | yeah, i suppose i should have called it a play queue service or something. |
| 21:45.40 | jasta | but yes, it hosts the MediaPlayer, manages the play queue, abstracts through to the ContentService (which abstracts between network and cache) |
| 21:46.03 | jasta | so when you click on a song to play, all that happens is mPlaylistService.enqueueAndPlay(songId); |
| 21:46.32 | jasta | and there are various listeners on the playlist service to watch it fill the playback buffer, jump/advance tracks, stop, pause, etc. |
| 21:46.40 | jasta | so various parts of the UI can hook in and figure out whats happening |
| 21:46.47 | jasta | it's a very rich architecture. |
| 21:46.59 | zhobbs | gotcha |
| 21:48.31 | jasta | is your design similar? |
| 21:49.53 | zhobbs | yeah |
| 21:50.09 | zhobbs | well, service doesn't really edit the playlist though |
| 21:50.20 | jasta | really? how do you persist it then? |
| 21:50.44 | zhobbs | the Library browser generates a playlist and then passes it to the service and the service just reads the playlist |
| 21:51.10 | jasta | hmm. that is one of the major design points of my app because it frustrates me so much about the iPod |
| 21:51.17 | zhobbs | then there is a controls screen and it just makes simple "skipForward()", "puase()", "stop()" calls to the service |
| 21:51.21 | jasta | that is, that the only way to manipulate playback is through predeterined playlists. |
| 21:51.38 | zhobbs | jasta: not predetermined |
| 21:51.56 | jasta | for example, if you long click a song in my UI, you are presented with the options "Play Now", "Play Next", "Enqueue" |
| 21:51.59 | jasta | Enqueue being play last |
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| 21:52.37 | zhobbs | I see, long click on song/artist/album results in a "Add to existing playlist" or "Create new playlist" |
| 21:52.46 | jasta | hmm |
| 21:52.57 | zhobbs | I see what you mean though |
| 21:52.59 | jasta | this UI is much trickier than people think |
| 21:53.23 | jasta | i mean, even mine i'm not confident just yet. i want to take a more serious look at analyzing this UI and figuring out a good flow diagram for how it should work |
| 21:53.45 | jasta | i know that i dislike things about the iPod's play queue, but i don't want to over-engineer my replacement for it. |
| 21:54.07 | jasta | otherwise it will be too foreign and uncomfortable for most users |
| 21:54.14 | zhobbs | you got me thinking, because with my setup if the user starts to play a playlist...and then goes and adds more song to the playlist while tracks are playing the list doesn't get invalidated in the service |
| 21:54.30 | zhobbs | that'll be something I'll have to fix |
| 21:54.52 | jasta | do you use a listener to update your UI? |
| 21:54.55 | zhobbs | yeah |
| 21:55.15 | jasta | what about for position advancement in the playing track? |
| 21:55.31 | jasta | i don't display that information currently. i just didn't get time to design my own slider widget that would look nice and everything |
| 21:55.31 | zhobbs | don't have a listener for that...just poll it here and there |
| 21:55.46 | jasta | i intended to have a listener, but never made one because i never needed it :) |
| 21:56.09 | jasta | that orange progresstextview paint effect is only found on my song selection screen right now |
| 21:56.14 | jasta | eventually i'll put that in the album cover view |
| 21:56.20 | zhobbs | I poll it every 4 secs and assume nothing happened unless the status changed listener fired |
| 21:56.21 | jasta | i really love that effect :) |
| 21:56.36 | zhobbs | room for improvement there |
| 21:56.59 | jasta | where? |
| 21:57.04 | jasta | i meant i like my ProgressTextView |
| 21:57.06 | zhobbs | I like the slider we're using...not sure if they plan to release any screenshots/press/apks/etc |
| 21:57.32 | zhobbs | jasta: room for improvement in my loop that updates the progress/duration |
| 21:57.36 | jasta | oh, right. |
| 21:57.45 | jasta | my player falls short on certain basic functionality |
| 21:57.59 | jasta | i mention it in my README just because i had to spend so much time building the sync framework |
| 21:58.16 | jasta | the first month or more of development was exclusively stuck there |
| 21:58.23 | zhobbs | seeking in yours is tricker, because you have to figure out if you have that part of the song |
| 21:58.43 | jasta | yeah, and implement a graceful way to choke the playback if you don't. |
| 21:58.48 | zhobbs | yep |
| 21:58.49 | jasta | but still want to seek |
| 21:58.55 | zhobbs | I can just seek to anywhere and it'll work |
| 21:59.11 | jasta | i'm very anxious to see what the next SDK has to offer. |
| 21:59.19 | jasta | i bet it's gonna really shake up my app |
| 22:00.30 | jerkface03 | it's going to feature a bunch of api changes, thereby breaking everyones source code ;) |
| 22:00.40 | zhobbs | I'd like to do something interesting with bluetooth...haven't come up with any ideas though |
| 22:01.12 | jasta | i don't plan to touch that with my app. internet or bust. :) |
| 22:01.16 | jerkface03 | was bt support added into m5? i thought they haven't implemented it yet |
| 22:01.26 | f00f- | i cant wait to get my hands on BT |
| 22:01.50 | f00f- | hopefully they support L2CAP |
| 22:01.56 | zhobbs | I'm not even talking peer to peer bt, but would like to talk to a microcontroller to do something cool |
| 22:02.23 | f00f- | ah you want to talk HCI |
| 22:02.42 | zhobbs | X10 automation or something |
| 22:03.00 | f00f- | yeah i got a module that did BT, but talked to it using an ericsson/infineon protocol |
| 22:03.05 | f00f- | not quite as low level as i had liked |
| 22:03.18 | jasta | zhobbs: I did think about that with my app. Since I already go through the effort to relate the content on the phone to that on the PC |
| 22:03.24 | jasta | it would make sense to let my app function as a remote control :) |
| 22:03.34 | *** part/#android jham (n=jham@216-110-75-66.static.twtelecom.net) |
| 22:03.48 | jasta | so it would do all its usual business but instead of playing on the handset, play on real speakers :) |
| 22:03.54 | jasta | It would be a hit for parties, I think :) |
| 22:04.12 | jasta | but that is a sort of off-the-wall idea i will almost certaily never have time for ;) |
| 22:04.31 | zhobbs | yeah, exactly |
| 22:04.35 | jasta | one practical feature i did want to get at though was a playlist ghosting mode, where you can "ghost" someone listening to music scrobbled to last.fm. whatever they hear, you hear. |
| 22:04.48 | jasta | so if you find someone's music you really like, you can turn them into your radio station |
| 22:04.54 | zhobbs | as long as you have it in your library? |
| 22:05.03 | jasta | or it's available on last.fm |
| 22:05.03 | jasta | ;) |
| 22:05.09 | jasta | but yes |
| 22:05.37 | jasta | my gf and i would use this feature a lot. our collections are forked from each other |
| 22:05.40 | jasta | so the similarities are great. |
| 22:05.58 | jasta | but she has different tastes than i do, and occassionally i like to listen to her stuff :) |
| 22:06.12 | jasta | and we both listen to music constantly at work |
| 22:07.22 | zhobbs | I need to be working on this for challenge II: http://plutohome.com/index.php?section=home_automation |
| 22:08.00 | zhobbs | ahh, plus you can control your stuff from anywhere... |
| 22:08.11 | zhobbs | over the net |
| 22:09.06 | zhobbs | looks like it's open source |
| 22:09.14 | *** join/#android krau (n=cktakaha@200.184.118.132) |
| 22:11.29 | zhobbs | that would be ultra geeky...your front door locks/unlocks for you when you walk up, lights on/off |
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| 22:13.50 | zhobbs | they probably made an Android project...they're all about open source and mobiles devices |
| 22:17.10 | jasta | that stuff is cool to me |
| 22:17.12 | jasta | really cool |
| 22:17.39 | jasta | i would love to use my mobile to control my computer for playing music and videos :) |
| 22:17.45 | jasta | and lights |
| 22:18.25 | zhobbs | yeah, especially if you're going to build a new house or something...it's not that much more expensive to install the X10 lights/fans/locks |
| 22:20.02 | jasta | locks...i'm not sure that's wise :) |
| 22:20.35 | zhobbs | hehe, maybe not...but sometimes old fashioned forced entry is just as easy |
| 22:20.42 | zhobbs | or actually easier |
| 22:20.49 | zhobbs | than hacking a fancy lock |
| 22:21.11 | jasta | true |
| 22:21.19 | jasta | windows are always easy to break ;) |
| 22:21.24 | zhobbs | yep |
| 22:21.37 | jasta | though, fancy hacking could get you into a house with much bigger loot and a much better alarm system ;) |
| 22:21.42 | *** join/#android aksyn (n=aksyn@78.86.127.226) |
| 22:21.43 | jasta | nice and quiet too :) |
| 22:22.18 | zhobbs | but if you have an electronic lock you can be notified when it's been opened from the inside when no one was home |
| 22:24.07 | zhobbs | haha, if your phone got stolen all of the sudden your lights and AC would start going crazy |
| 22:24.38 | jasta | i cant believe i'm still obsessively hacking on my android app |
| 22:24.47 | jasta | this is retarded :) |
| 22:24.59 | jasta | curses Google |
| 22:25.58 | zhobbs | they hooked you in |
| 22:27.14 | *** join/#android duey (n=duey@203-190-208-12.innovationwaikato.co.nz) |
| 22:28.07 | jasta | they sure did |
| 22:29.44 | davidw | ahahaah |
| 22:30.07 | davidw | how much is the contest worth? 1,000,000 ? |
| 22:30.24 | zhobbs | 5,000,000 |
| 22:32.20 | jasta | total $5mil for this one |
| 22:37.53 | davidw | <PROTECTED> |
| 22:37.58 | davidw | $5000 per submission |
| 22:38.40 | davidw | I know I would have billed a lot more for the time I spent on mine (and did bill a lot more for the time I spent on one for a client) |
| 22:38.41 | ligi | davidw: good point ,-) |
| 22:38.45 | davidw | so they're getting a good deal |
| 22:39.11 | davidw | even if not all the submissions are really *that* good |
| 22:39.13 | Bonkers | except google doesn't own the code |
| 22:39.15 | davidw | plus all the publicity and stuff |
| 22:39.33 | davidw | Bonkers, no, but they've grown themselves an ... "ecosystem", if you pardon the buzzword |
| 22:39.52 | Bonkers | right, I'm just pointing out why the cost may seem low |
| 22:40.10 | Bonkers | billing rates include the future profit potential based off the work from sales and the ilke |
| 22:40.31 | Bonkers | the biller gives up sale rights in exchange for more money |
| 22:40.51 | zhobbs | does google sell any software? |
| 22:41.04 | zhobbs | they sell the search stuff, but that includes hardware |
| 22:41.11 | Bonkers | earth |
| 22:41.17 | zhobbs | true |
| 22:41.21 | SUSaiyan | scetchup |
| 22:41.25 | SUSaiyan | sketchup |
| 22:41.26 | SUSaiyan | sorry |
| 22:41.46 | Bonkers | I never considered until just now that sketchup is one letter away from ketchup |
| 22:42.57 | *** join/#android Dougie187 (n=doug@c-68-35-247-131.hsd1.fl.comcast.net) |
| 22:45.38 | davidw | well... the point is only that for a relatively low amount of money, they get a bunch of people creating apps for their platform |
| 22:46.19 | Bonkers | right, I agree |
| 22:46.22 | Bonkers | just discussing |
| 22:47.39 | davidw | I'm pretty happy just to get an open source phone thing that's backed by some money and clout |
| 22:48.34 | Dougie187 | hell yeah |
| 22:48.44 | Dougie187 | i wanna be able to dump it on another phone though |
| 22:49.00 | Dougie187 | because im dying to get a new phone, and i want android on it, but i dont know how long i would have to wait to get it. |
| 22:49.08 | Dougie187 | though i hear the dream might be coming out in may |
| 22:49.26 | jasta | Dougie187: That is absurd; no phone will come before the ADC is complete for sure. |
| 22:49.27 | zhobbs | I don't want to be stuck with T-Mobile |
| 22:49.43 | Dougie187 | Yeah i dont know if its true or not. |
| 22:49.47 | Dougie187 | purely rumors. |
| 22:49.50 | jasta | and that is some time in what, July? I'd say a safe bet would be at least a few months after that even. |
| 22:50.10 | jasta | Dougie187: It's not even a sensible rumor. It makes literally no sense. |
| 22:50.10 | zhobbs | I see phones coming out October maybe |
| 22:50.16 | Dougie187 | I also heard that Samsung has two models that are supposed to come out in September and December |
| 22:50.22 | jasta | zhobbs: Me too, Oct/Nov |
| 22:50.41 | zhobbs | in time for Christmas I guess |
| 22:50.47 | Dougie187 | yeah |
| 22:50.48 | jasta | but honestly, i would not be surprised if the platform was pushed back further, maybe even into 2009. |
| 22:50.58 | zhobbs | nooooooo......... |
| 22:51.06 | jasta | look at it this way |
| 22:51.07 | Dougie187 | Is it resonable to hope to dump Android onto another set of hardware? |
| 22:51.16 | zhobbs | hopefully it makes a LOT of progress in the next couple months |
| 22:51.23 | jasta | trust that Google will not want to shoot themselves in the foot. they won't release when it's not ready. |
| 22:51.33 | Dougie187 | yeah |
| 22:51.36 | zhobbs | I don't think there's anyway that the Challenge II deadline will be in 2008 |
| 22:51.36 | Dougie187 | google knows whats up. |
| 22:51.37 | jasta | zhobbs: Well, Romain said something interesting yesterday |
| 22:52.07 | jasta | zhobbs: Discussing a bug he fixed, he clarified that the bug was fixed in *a* release, not necessarily the next one. |
| 22:52.24 | jasta | Which tells me Google has a large repository of code we are not seeing. |
| 22:52.29 | zhobbs | I see him make that distinction a lot |
| 22:52.30 | jasta | And I believe it. |
| 22:53.03 | jasta | Google's given us just enough to do what we need. But I bet they've got a platform brewing that is much more aggressive than we realize now. |
| 22:53.10 | jasta | Or have seen, I should see. I realize it ;) |
| 22:53.21 | Dougie187 | Do you guys think it will be feasible to put android on hardware that doesn't come with android out of the box? |
| 22:54.03 | jasta | Dougie187: Presumably, but unless you are willing to suppor tthat work yourself I'd say you should ignore it. |
| 22:54.07 | davidw | IT projects being delivered on time is not something I'd bet a ton of money on, Android included;-) |
| 22:54.27 | davidw | especially as concerned as they have to be about quality... can't just upgrade the server on a phone |
| 22:54.49 | davidw | sleep time in any case |
| 22:54.57 | jasta | well actually, i'd be surprised if android did not come with tools to update the firmware easily. |
| 22:55.12 | jasta | i'd bet they would even package them as utilities in the handset itself. |
| 22:55.22 | jasta | hell, even Windows Mobile does that now |
| 22:56.12 | jasta | and it's not like it's hard to do :) |
| 22:56.17 | Dougie187 | well.. heres to hoping it wont be terrible to port android to a different phone. |
| 22:56.20 | Dougie187 | lol |
| 22:56.50 | jasta | Dougie187: I'm just frustrated by your question. Would you be willing to explore that effort? |
| 22:57.01 | jasta | Or are you just hoping someone will hand you a robust port to some device of your choice? |
| 22:57.03 | Dougie187 | Which question? |
| 22:57.08 | Dougie187 | No. I would try to get it done. |
| 22:57.22 | jasta | Then yes, if you have the necessary expertise it should be very easy to do when Android is released. |
| 22:57.47 | Dougie187 | I guess it would have to be worth the effort, which, if android ends up being what I hope it is then it should be. |
| 22:58.03 | Bonkers | I don't think you'll ever be able to just port it ot an arbitrary phone though |
| 22:58.10 | Bonkers | the limitation will be the hardware, not the software |
| 22:58.24 | Bonkers | phone makers don't release specs on hardware |
| 22:58.25 | jasta | The only challenge is making sure the chipset is well supported on Linux |
| 22:58.46 | Dougie187 | Im just trying to make up my mind if its going to be worth waiting to get a new phone. |
| 22:58.51 | jasta | so if the chipset is some unusual thing that Android has never worked on before, then you will have a hard task at hand. |
| 22:59.14 | jasta | Dougie187: If you want to use Android, yes, it is absolutely worth getting a new phone. Don't be ridiculous. |
| 22:59.22 | Dougie187 | heh |
| 22:59.29 | Dougie187 | well i meant waiting. |
| 22:59.33 | Dougie187 | I want to get a new phone. |
| 22:59.42 | Dougie187 | its just if i want to wait until it comes with android on it. |
| 23:00.02 | jasta | As Bonkers said, porting it to some arbitrary handset is not something you want to explore right now. |
| 23:00.10 | Dougie187 | yeah. |
| 23:01.22 | jasta | Especially since the SDK source isn't available. |
| 23:01.27 | Dougie187 | true. |
| 23:01.38 | Dougie187 | Though I wasnt thinking about now. |
| 23:01.46 | Dougie187 | I was thinking about after a phone with android gets release. |
| 23:01.55 | jasta | But don't be silly. Wait until it is commercially launched, explore it, and then make up your mind what value it has and what effort you want to put into projects like that. |
| 23:02.00 | Dougie187 | to dump it on a phone that came out before android was released |
| 23:02.02 | Dougie187 | yeah |
| 23:02.03 | jasta | No point speculating now |
| 23:02.31 | Dougie187 | true. |
| 23:04.48 | Dougie187 | i take it all of you participated in the ADC? |
| 23:05.01 | Dougie187 | or a lot of you at least... |
| 23:06.42 | jasta | yeah, a lot of us did. |
| 23:06.47 | jasta | my project is at android-five.googlecode.com |
| 23:08.48 | *** join/#android xavd (n=xavier@nat/google/x-3038a7e5b05ec87f) |
| 23:09.40 | Dougie187 | Thats pretty sweet |
| 23:09.46 | Dougie187 | How many people worked on it with you? |
| 23:09.51 | jasta | zhobbs: btw, it's only called android-five because google won't let me take five.googlecode.com. The system is to be called Five generically. |
| 23:09.54 | jasta | Dougie187: None |
| 23:10.36 | Dougie187 | thats pretty cool. |
| 23:10.42 | Dougie187 | Good luck with the competition. |
| 23:10.43 | jasta | i think so :) |
| 23:10.47 | Dougie187 | i think its a good idea. |
| 23:10.58 | Dougie187 | it seems sort of like the whole slingbox idea just for digital media |
| 23:10.59 | jasta | i have an 85GB music collection, so it makes sense for me :) |
| 23:11.03 | Dougie187 | yeah |
| 23:11.12 | Dougie187 | does it stream? |
| 23:11.15 | jasta | of course |
| 23:11.27 | jasta | currently there is no search support, though i am adding it for the next round of the challenge |
| 23:11.29 | *** join/#android maynards-girl (n=maynards@c-68-33-0-150.hsd1.wv.comcast.net) |
| 23:11.36 | Dougie187 | thats awesome |
| 23:12.03 | zhobbs | jasta: 10-4 on the naming convention...is there a google code project named "five" |
| 23:12.14 | jasta | zhobbs: no, but there is a sourceforge one with that name |
| 23:12.20 | jasta | and so googlecode won't release five to me :\ |
| 23:12.30 | jasta | the five.sf.net author would have to authorize, but he's AWOL so i don't know what to do |
| 23:12.31 | zhobbs | really? it checks sf? |
| 23:12.34 | jasta | yeah |
| 23:12.39 | zhobbs | wow, that's smart |
| 23:12.54 | jasta | maybe if i win the challenge i can ask google to kindly give me the name :) |
| 23:12.54 | zhobbs | will encourage people to transfer over |
| 23:13.52 | jasta | yeah, it's a great feature, but it has one huge problem |
| 23:13.58 | jasta | they don't check their e-mail. :) |
| 23:14.17 | Dougie187 | lol |
| 23:14.17 | jasta | i've e-mailed the address it tells me to use several times to request that my project is sufficiently distinct to this dead one that i can use the name |
| 23:14.19 | Dougie187 | that is an issue |
| 23:14.20 | zhobbs | Five is a java Go game? |
| 23:14.24 | Dougie187 | Good luck with everything. |
| 23:14.29 | Dougie187 | Ill be back later. |
| 23:14.35 | *** part/#android Dougie187 (n=doug@c-68-35-247-131.hsd1.fl.comcast.net) |
| 23:15.58 | zhobbs | or is Five a jabber IM client? weird |
| 23:16.57 | jasta | zhobbs: yeah, you noticed that too eh? |
| 23:17.09 | jasta | there seems to be 3 projects here |
| 23:17.27 | jasta | the java game, and then some project with a different name that has space as "five" |
| 23:17.35 | jasta | 2 projects, i meant :) |
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| 23:46.55 | *** join/#android Dougie187 (n=doug@c-68-35-247-131.hsd1.fl.comcast.net) |
| 23:48.07 | Dougie187 | i am back |
| 23:49.18 | Dougie187 | jasta: how come you didn't have anyone else work with you on the project? |
| 23:49.45 | acsia | morning! |