| 00:01.28 | zhobbs | hmm, I could setBackground() to a non LayerDrawable then setProgress then setBackground() back to my LayerDrawable :) |
| 00:01.47 | zhobbs | well, call super.setProgress in my setProgress() |
| 00:02.39 | jasta | i might actually make mine animate too :) |
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| 00:03.02 | jasta | so it'll appear to smooth scroll even when it shouldn't really |
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| 00:10.18 | zhobbs | Drawable tmp_bg = getBackground(); |
| 00:10.18 | zhobbs | setBackground(mDummyBg); |
| 00:10.18 | zhobbs | super.setProgress(progress); |
| 00:10.18 | zhobbs | setBackground(tmp_bg); |
| 00:10.52 | zhobbs | wonder if that helps |
| 00:11.13 | romainguy_ | jasta: this is all hardcoded. i will need to extend ProgressBar just to reverse this. << this is pending work to be done on ShapeDrawable |
| 00:19.14 | jasta | romainguy_: it's ok, at least i understand it now. i know how to proceed. |
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| 00:34.39 | jasta | romainguy_: thanks anyway :) |
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| 00:57.12 | chomchom | so jasta anywhere near that demo? |
| 01:05.49 | jasta | i havent even gotten off work yet, sheesh :) |
| 01:08.32 | chomchom | dearie me |
| 01:09.03 | jasta | i'm gonna get this progress bar thing done first anyway. i hate the buffering progress bar i have in there now :) |
| 01:10.09 | chomchom | It's 8 minutes past 2 here so I don't think I'll be getting much more done tonight. Yeah, I was going to do screen shots tonight but I'll wait until I'm done with this UI stuff. Although I seem to have broken everything in my haste to beautify it. |
| 01:10.29 | jasta | hehe, its 6pm here :) |
| 01:10.32 | jasta | i have plenty of time tonight :) |
| 01:10.48 | chomchom | gar |
| 01:12.22 | jasta | romainguy_: hmm, a thought occurs. Would it be possible to use a shader to draw the progress bar through the text of the song? |
| 01:13.08 | jasta | that is, not use a progress bar at all, but a Shader over the TextView |
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| 01:13.59 | jasta | that would be sweet :P |
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| 01:33.54 | jasta | teehee, this will work :) |
| 01:34.19 | chomchom | yeah that will be cool |
| 01:40.06 | jasta | actually i wonder if this is practical. in order to look good it would need to animate smoothly and i can't afford animations at the time this code will be running. |
| 01:40.18 | jasta | the processor is already squashed by the tremendous amount of work its been asked to do |
| 01:41.30 | michaelnovakjr | i've never been a fan of extra animation.... i will admit it looks good, but from an optimization point of view, if the animation doesn't serve a concrete UI purpose it can really hinder the application |
| 01:41.47 | michaelnovakjr | but i am sure there's a line of people who'd disagree |
| 01:44.45 | jasta | well, in this case the animation is to work around the fact that there really isn't that much data to use. |
| 01:45.07 | jasta | the buffer is usually full in 3 updates, and so it goes like 0%, 30%, 60%, done. |
| 01:45.12 | jasta | it seems really jerky |
| 01:45.25 | jasta | and also, the progress is changing colors, so when its done the colors just reset and that seems awkward too |
| 01:45.30 | michaelnovakjr | its fairly large intervals |
| 01:45.55 | jasta | but i dont know that i can even afford an animation here truthfully |
| 01:46.14 | michaelnovakjr | will it slow down your buffering? |
| 01:46.43 | jasta | the progress bar is indicating the buffer fill before a song can play. for whatever reason, with all my service communication, TCP overhead, etc, it seems to destroy performance of the device for a few moments. |
| 01:46.52 | jasta | the few moments that are needed to display buffer update :) |
| 01:47.08 | jasta | so i really should be thinking of economical approaches :) |
| 01:48.51 | michaelnovakjr | true... its totally a great idea as an application... i would find myself using it very often |
| 01:49.02 | jasta | mine? |
| 01:49.06 | michaelnovakjr | yea |
| 01:49.17 | jasta | yeah, i'm pleased with how it's coming together too. i really think this thing is going to work. |
| 01:49.46 | jasta | it's much more than a proof-of-concept right now too. it does its basic job, but it looks good doing it :) |
| 01:49.55 | jasta | it is, however, woefully inefficient. |
| 01:50.07 | zhobbs | jasta: you extending progressbar? |
| 01:50.22 | michaelnovakjr | you can always optimize it later |
| 01:50.22 | jasta | zhobbs: No, I had a new idea ;) |
| 01:50.39 | michaelnovakjr | plus, once you get your hands on a handset you'll really get an idea on improvements |
| 01:50.40 | jasta | michaelnovakjr: Right, that was my plan. Most of the opts are obvious, but are somewhat non-trivial or difficult to debug. |
| 01:50.49 | jasta | For example, I don't use WbXML yet because I would find it difficult to troubleshoot. |
| 01:50.59 | michaelnovakjr | yea |
| 01:51.35 | jasta | zhobbs: I'm using a Shader to adjust a TextView's paint so the "progress" is indicated in the text itself :) |
| 01:51.40 | jasta | kind of bleeding in color |
| 01:52.20 | zhobbs | interesting, look forward to seeing it :) |
| 01:52.32 | jasta | yeah, it looks really nice i gotta admit. i have it up already in a very crude wya. |
| 01:52.52 | jasta | i'm just extending a TextView and fiddling with its paint ;) |
| 01:53.09 | jasta | i think it'll look nice in my UI, since a progress bar would seem intrusive anyway |
| 02:06.56 | jasta | it occurs to me now that actually the best place to put this shader is in the little play icon hehe |
| 02:07.28 | jasta | that way, i dont even need to animate to. i can have it show up in like a gray color and "fill up" to the orange its supposed to be |
| 02:08.40 | zhobbs | jasta: are you fetching the album covers from amazon? |
| 02:08.50 | jasta | no, last.fm, which sometimes includes references there |
| 02:09.03 | jasta | last.fm's web services are awesome :P |
| 02:09.11 | jasta | and they don't require developer keys or any such nonsense |
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| 02:14.17 | jasta | ok, time to head home... |
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| 02:15.17 | chomchom | and time for my bed |
| 02:15.21 | chomchom | nighty |
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| 02:34.52 | morrildl | it's quiet here in the off-hours :) |
| 02:35.11 | romainguy_ | yes :) |
| 02:35.16 | jtoy | can anyone help me with a stupid problem? I have code that was working fine, and now all of a sudden when i run it on my machine, the app never starts, but if I run the exact code on another machine, it runs fine, I have also used -wipe-data on my emulator, so I don't know ow to fix this problem |
| 02:39.20 | michaelnovakjr | what's your log say |
| 02:40.15 | michaelnovakjr | jtoy, did you run adb logcat? |
| 02:45.19 | michaelnovakjr | any sample code of LinearGradients? |
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| 02:47.38 | sudoer | i got disconnected, does anyone know how I can debug my problem? |
| 02:47.40 | sudoer | about the emulator issue? |
| 02:47.57 | michaelnovakjr | have you looked at your log? |
| 02:49.33 | sudoer | yes, the error Iget is : unable to opt direct call 0x00bd at 0x34 in Lcom/sanbit/android/mystats/FileUpload;.createContactsFile, access denied from Lcom/sanbit/android/mystats/FileUploadService$Stub$Proxy; to field Lcom/sanbit/android/mystats/FileUploadService;.record |
| 02:49.56 | michaelnovakjr | you are working with contacts? |
| 02:50.05 | sudoer | the my phone displays "activity not responding" |
| 02:50.06 | sudoer | yes |
| 02:50.18 | michaelnovakjr | it looks like a permissions |
| 02:51.09 | sudoer | hmm, it was working fine the past couple of weeks, the permissions I have are : <uses-permission android:name="android.permission.READ_CONTACTS" /> <uses-permission android:name="android.permission.RECEIVE_SMS" /><uses-permission android:name="android.permission.CALL_PHONE" /> |
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| 03:00.54 | sudoer | michaelnovakjr: even with blocking out all that code for the contacts, my app stil lwont run |
| 03:01.33 | michaelnovakjr | hmmm, did your log output change at all? |
| 03:03.01 | sudoer | it seems to be going crazy now, I'm going to do some more testing |
| 03:03.13 | morrildl | sudoer: are you doing any network accesses? |
| 03:03.43 | sudoer | yes, there is some network access involved, but that is running in its own thread via services, so not sure why my app would get affected |
| 03:04.16 | morrildl | activity not responding happens when the system adds an event to your app's event queue, and you don't clear it within 5 seconds |
| 03:04.33 | sudoer | I'm getting repeats of this error: W/ActivityManager( 859): Timeout of broadcast BroadcastRecord{401ae348 android.intent.action.PHONE_STATE} |
| 03:04.33 | morrildl | so, something is blocking for longer than 5 seconds |
| 03:04.33 | sudoer | W/ActivityManager( 859): Receiver during timeout: ResolveInfo{401ae1a0 com.sanbit.android.mystats.CallPopupIntentReceiver p=0 o=0 m=10000} |
| 03:04.57 | sudoer | but the only thing that intentreceiver does is run this line: Log.d(LOG, "Starting app..."); |
| 03:05.26 | michaelnovakjr | isn't it Log.d("LOG", "Starting app..."); ? |
| 03:05.36 | michaelnovakjr | unless that's a variable |
| 03:05.48 | sudoer | yes, private static final String LOG = "callPopupIntentReceiver"; |
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| 03:12.28 | morrildl | neat |
| 03:12.34 | morrildl | that's an error from the Dalvik optimizer |
| 03:12.54 | jtoy | did I miss anything? my connection was lost again |
| 03:13.28 | morrildl | jtoy: are you using third-party libraries? |
| 03:13.32 | morrildl | like, including a jar? |
| 03:13.37 | jtoy | I dont get any errors when i disable the network code, but my app still freezes |
| 03:13.48 | jtoy | no, all the code is in the android sdk |
| 03:14.22 | morrildl | what is the signature of the function you are calling? |
| 03:14.27 | morrildl | the one that hangs |
| 03:15.12 | jtoy | umm, I don't se in the logs where is says the function, let me past it, hold on a sec |
| 03:15.53 | morrildl | see if 'adb bugreport' gives you any additional info |
| 03:17.03 | jtoy | wow, adb bugreport prints out a lot of stuff |
| 03:17.16 | jtoy | here is the adb logcat: http://pastie.org/176994 |
| 03:18.31 | benley | iwpta "adb lolcat" |
| 03:23.06 | Kuja | logcat is log |
| 03:23.59 | jtoy | the logfile doesnt show me anything thing helpful :( |
| 03:24.29 | zhobbs | what is the name of the default window background? (grey with lines) |
| 03:26.12 | jtoy | and my cpu goes to 100% when my app doesnt load |
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| 03:29.05 | jasta | what the hell is a Matrix. how flexible is this system for animations? |
| 03:29.35 | morrildl | jtoy: was that adb logcat, or adb bugreport? |
| 03:29.46 | jtoy | adb logcat |
| 03:29.53 | morrildl | wow |
| 03:30.08 | morrildl | and you say this happens only on one computer? |
| 03:30.33 | jtoy | yes, but i have ran a wipe data |
| 03:30.54 | jtoy | so i dont know how to fix this at all since I need to code and test on my own computer |
| 03:33.32 | jtoy | it just started happening all of a sudden yesterday, so i've been writing code, but am not able to test it |
| 03:37.09 | morrildl | so the same code runs on a different computer? |
| 03:37.20 | jtoy | yes |
| 03:37.35 | morrildl | are you loading classes explicitly? |
| 03:37.39 | mickrobk | jasta, a matrix (from linear algebra) is a linear mapping of a function. you can use it in graphics to map one point to another, for the entire coordinate space. Ex. I could use a matrix to move an image left, or to rotate it |
| 03:38.03 | jasta | mickrobk: uhm. |
| 03:38.06 | jasta | seriously? :) |
| 03:38.09 | jtoy | morrildl: what do you mean? i import classes, and I also do startService(this,ClassName); |
| 03:38.26 | morrildl | jtoy: I mean loading a class by name via Class |
| 03:38.33 | morrildl | reflection basically |
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| 03:38.43 | jtoy | no, I am currently not using any reflection |
| 03:39.07 | morrildl | fire up 'adb shell' and then 'cd /data/app' |
| 03:39.12 | zhobbs | jasta: how's the scrolling performance on that album listview? |
| 03:39.13 | morrildl | and do 'ls' and see what's in there |
| 03:39.29 | jasta | zhobbs: not great. |
| 03:39.37 | zhobbs | same here |
| 03:39.45 | jasta | you have a music player also? |
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| 03:40.03 | mickrobk | jasta: before u draw on a canvas, try doing canvas.translate(50,50), that changes the matrix of the canvas so that everything u draw on it will be moved down and right 50px |
| 03:40.29 | zhobbs | jasta: yeah..for tunewiki.com |
| 03:40.36 | jasta | mickrobk: that's not at all what i was asking about :) |
| 03:40.43 | jtoy | morrildl: ApiDemos.apk and mystats.apk |
| 03:41.12 | morrildl | try doing 'rm mystats.apk' and then reinstalling |
| 03:41.33 | jasta | specifically, how would I change colors in the matrix? what is the structure here? |
| 03:41.45 | morrildl | (not that I think that will help since you already did a -wipe-data) |
| 03:41.55 | jtoy | wtf, that fixed it |
| 03:42.14 | morrildl | er, neat |
| 03:42.15 | jtoy | doesn't -wipe-data clean out the emulator? |
| 03:42.21 | morrildl | It is supposed to :) |
| 03:42.27 | morrildl | which SDK version? |
| 03:42.29 | jtoy | morrildl: rthanks |
| 03:42.33 | jtoy | m5, the latest one |
| 03:42.36 | morrildl | okay |
| 03:42.42 | morrildl | damn, now I wish I'd had you keep that .apk |
| 03:42.54 | morrildl | that error was basically saying you had a corrupt apk |
| 03:42.58 | jtoy | morrildl: I'm sure its happen again :) thanks though! |
| 03:43.08 | morrildl | but in some insidious way that I've never seen before |
| 03:43.13 | morrildl | ha ha, np |
| 03:43.16 | morrildl | happy hacking |
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| 03:44.39 | romainguy | jasta: what the hell is a Matrix. how flexible is this system for animations? << ? |
| 03:45.08 | michaelnovakjr | i thought animations relied on a Matrix |
| 03:45.16 | romainguy | They do |
| 03:45.21 | romainguy | Actually they rely on a Transformation |
| 03:45.27 | romainguy | which is a Matrix + stuff |
| 03:45.27 | jasta | romainguy: how do I interact with this? how could i, say, animation with a shader? |
| 03:45.37 | morrildl | romainguy: just one? |
| 03:45.48 | romainguy | morrildl: as a matter of fact, yes :) |
| 03:45.48 | jasta | animate* |
| 03:45.55 | romainguy | just create an AlphaAnimation that will give you a number between 0 and 1 |
| 03:46.02 | romainguy | then use that to modify your shader |
| 03:46.09 | romainguy | that's what progress bar does in indeterminate mode |
| 03:46.42 | morrildl | romainguy: how's that work? obviously you can merge say a rotation and a translation into a single matrix, but if you apply that one matrix over and over again you aren't necessarily going to converge your animation to a useful end state |
| 03:46.43 | jasta | so I don't need to futz with the Matrix at all for that? |
| 03:46.59 | romainguy | jasta: not at all |
| 03:47.05 | jasta | ahh, ok then :) |
| 03:47.07 | romainguy | the Matrix is just for 2d and 3d transformations |
| 03:47.18 | jasta | why an AlphaAnimation though? |
| 03:47.27 | romainguy | morrildl: the matrix is supposed to be clobbered on every frame of every animated child |
| 03:47.39 | romainguy | jasta: becase it simply interpolate a number between X and Y |
| 03:47.41 | morrildl | romainguy: oh |
| 03:47.44 | romainguy | and that's the basis of all animations |
| 03:47.48 | jasta | romainguy: oh, ok. |
| 03:47.56 | morrildl | romainguy: you meant one matrix allocation in memory |
| 03:47.58 | romainguy | you could create your own custom animation |
| 03:48.03 | romainguy | but alphaanimation is there so... |
| 03:48.11 | romainguy | morrildl: yes, just teasing you back :) |
| 03:48.18 | morrildl | romainguy: ahh :) |
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| 03:51.16 | muthu | @thattalldude glad to follow you. happy tweeting! |
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| 04:01.16 | muthu | oh oh |
| 04:01.23 | muthu | my bad! |
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| 04:02.20 | zhobbs | R isn't generating....... |
| 04:02.33 | zhobbs | I deleted it to force it to regen and it's not happening |
| 04:02.44 | jasta | project -> clean |
| 04:03.17 | zhobbs | not working |
| 04:03.31 | jasta | Press F5 on the project. |
| 04:03.52 | jasta | If it still isn't working: check the problems list for a resource error. |
| 04:04.49 | morrildl | yeah I did that the other day |
| 04:04.58 | morrildl | I started harassing Xav about it |
| 04:05.11 | morrildl | turned out I had another stupid error earlier in y project that was canceling the build before it even ran aapt |
| 04:05.13 | morrildl | hehehe |
| 04:05.34 | zhobbs | doh, was an error in the manifest :( |
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| 04:24.25 | jasta | neat, my animation works. |
| 04:24.39 | jasta | zhobbs: i think youre gonna like this effect i've just accomplished :) |
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| 04:27.16 | zhobbs | jasta: lemme see |
| 04:27.28 | jasta | not in a position to show it just yet. soon :) |
| 04:27.40 | jasta | i'm finishing up another part of my app so i can record a video of the whole thing :) |
| 04:28.15 | zhobbs | soon is right...we have 1 week + 2 1/2 hours |
| 04:28.20 | jasta | hehe ;) |
| 04:28.44 | jasta | i am seriously going to be working like 6 hours every night until then :) |
| 04:28.49 | jasta | and i didnt even procrastinate! |
| 04:29.25 | zhobbs | there was a thread on the mailing list about how many hours everyone put into their projects, was pretty surprised |
| 04:29.33 | zhobbs | lots of people claiming 300-500 |
| 04:29.37 | jasta | link? |
| 04:29.40 | morrildl | Sometimes trolls are too easy to predict |
| 04:29.51 | jasta | i would suppose i put in about 2 hours avg per day for 3 months. |
| 04:30.11 | zhobbs | http://groups.google.com/group/android-challenge/browse_thread/thread/53ec4021cf97cd1c |
| 04:30.49 | morrildl | yeah that's a lot of hours |
| 04:30.58 | jasta | so i guess my number would be about 180. |
| 04:30.59 | zhobbs | I couldn't even estimate...2 ADC projects + helloandroid.com |
| 04:31.09 | zhobbs | but this was my full time job |
| 04:31.15 | morrildl | I wonder at which point the man-hours spent by people developing apps *for* android surpasses the man-hours spent developing Android itself |
| 04:31.16 | jasta | really? not me. |
| 04:31.33 | jasta | morrildl: With any luck, soon. |
| 04:31.37 | morrildl | jasta: indeed :) |
| 04:31.42 | morrildl | one of those unknowable statistics tho |
| 04:31.47 | zhobbs | probably already happened |
| 04:32.04 | jasta | zhobbs: check this out |
| 04:32.18 | morrildl | zhobbs: hmmm.... it's possible that it has. Hard to tell though |
| 04:32.35 | jasta | $ perl -lwe 'my $c = 0; while (<>) { s/\S//g; $c += length; }; print $c;' $(find libsyncml-java/ five-music/ five-client/ five-server/ -name "*.[ch]" -or -name "*.java" -or -name "*.xml" | grep -v Base64.java) |
| 04:32.39 | jasta | 73421 |
| 04:33.05 | jasta | number of non-space characters in my source :) |
| 04:33.24 | zhobbs | what's the Base64.java thrown in there? |
| 04:33.31 | jasta | zhobbs: I didn't write Base64.java ;) |
| 04:33.35 | morrildl | hahahahahaha |
| 04:33.42 | zhobbs | hahaa....that's great |
| 04:33.47 | zhobbs | you could have taken credit :) |
| 04:33.51 | morrildl | oh goodness |
| 04:33.52 | jasta | that would be unfair :) |
| 04:34.22 | jasta | that, btw, was run after mvn clean, so there should be no autogenerated crud :) |
| 04:34.40 | jasta | 15927 lines, but I [heart] whitespace. |
| 04:35.03 | zhobbs | you exclude R.java? and aidl generate java files? :) |
| 04:35.05 | jasta | my project is absolutely huge, anyway. i suspect by the time it releases to handsets it will be 3 times this since. |
| 04:35.13 | jasta | zhobbs: my clean targets delete them, so yes. |
| 04:35.19 | zhobbs | ahh |
| 04:35.37 | morrildl | hmm |
| 04:35.46 | jasta | this size*, i meant. |
| 04:35.52 | morrildl | had been expecting a "Google App Engine + Android == Crazy Delicious" post by now |
| 04:36.27 | jasta | i am going to start a new campaign to murder anyone using pseudomathematic gibberish. |
| 04:36.33 | jasta | glares at morrildl |
| 04:37.01 | morrildl | wow, I thought you just had it in for using pseudocode to mark up real life |
| 04:37.17 | jasta | no, in fact, that is less annoying by contrast :) |
| 04:37.20 | morrildl | <avoid scope="code">jasta</avoid> |
| 04:37.59 | jasta | the this + that = whatever bugs me because the verb "to be" is fundamentally incompatible with "equals", and in fact differs from langauge to language. |
| 04:38.06 | f00f- | sounds good jasta :P |
| 04:38.15 | f00f- | i just discovered Google App Engine myself |
| 04:38.18 | f00f- | jaiku is moving to it first |
| 04:39.14 | morrildl | cool, I didn't know that |
| 04:40.01 | morrildl | As a former GE-er, I do have to say that the GAE logo looks like a GE-90 |
| 04:40.21 | f00f- | you're not talking about GE Aerospace engines are you? |
| 04:40.51 | morrildl | heh |
| 04:40.57 | f00f- | GE-90 is a commodity engine for widebody aircraft |
| 04:40.58 | morrildl | No, that's Lockheed Martin now |
| 04:41.05 | morrildl | right |
| 04:41.22 | morrildl | the logo for Google App Engine looks like a GE-90 in nacelle with fins welded on |
| 04:41.40 | f00f- | HAHAHA |
| 04:41.44 | f00f- | yes |
| 04:42.19 | f00f- | i totally love the logo! |
| 04:42.46 | jasta | that's a very exciting project, actually |
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| 04:47.39 | morrildl | jasta: what, the GE-90? |
| 04:47.48 | jasta | uhh, no |
| 04:47.52 | jasta | Google App Engine |
| 04:47.57 | romainguy | re |
| 04:48.06 | morrildl | oh, right :) |
| 04:52.57 | muthu | woah Google App Engine |
| 04:53.10 | muthu | totally missed it.. my day starts late anyways |
| 04:54.09 | muthu | was looking at amazon for hosting my mobile search engine |
| 04:54.17 | muthu | now may be google app engine.. lets see |
| 04:58.01 | muthu | python, what?? |
| 04:58.09 | morrildl | muthu: It only launched less than an hour ago, so you aren't late :) |
| 04:58.24 | romainguy | hmmm python :) |
| 04:58.39 | muthu | morrildl: yeah techcrunch was breaking news yesterday |
| 04:58.55 | morrildl | mmmmmmmmmm, pyyyyyyyyython |
| 04:59.03 | muthu | haha |
| 04:59.09 | muthu | when you support java? |
| 04:59.24 | zhobbs | doh! python... |
| 04:59.27 | romainguy | people complain that Android is in Java |
| 04:59.35 | romainguy | and now people will complain that GAE is in Python |
| 04:59.40 | morrildl | Sorry sorry -- for Jasta's benefit: <inflection origin="Home Simpson">mmmmmmmmmmmmm pyyyyyyyyython</inflection> |
| 04:59.40 | zhobbs | you can't please everyone |
| 04:59.44 | muthu | ok, when PHP? |
| 04:59.45 | romainguy | people should start just learning stuff :)) |
| 04:59.59 | morrildl | yes, sometimes I think that is our greatest contribution: we force developers to learn new stuff to use our crap ;) |
| 05:00.12 | muthu | lol |
| 05:00.18 | muthu | i was all for learning new languages |
| 05:00.31 | muthu | but lately i'm wise enough to stick with what i know already |
| 05:01.39 | morrildl | whenever I start to get cranky about kids these days and their fancypants new toys, I know it's time to learn a new language |
| 05:01.55 | morrildl | next up is Scala once I have some time :P |
| 05:02.02 | romainguy | morrildl: Guido must be happy about GAE :) |
| 05:02.07 | morrildl | I know |
| 05:02.19 | jtoy | scala on android would be awesome |
| 05:02.25 | muthu | i'm going to wait until you support PHP |
| 05:02.28 | romainguy | jtoy: it works already |
| 05:02.44 | muthu | and Java on GAE |
| 05:02.46 | morrildl | jtoy: yeah, we've been working with....... ugh, I can never remember his name |
| 05:02.47 | jtoy | right, but i wouldnt want to build my app for the contest in it quite yet |
| 05:03.07 | romainguy | morrildl: Martin Odersky? |
| 05:03.14 | morrildl | romainguy: yes |
| 05:03.26 | morrildl | I should just call him Mr. O, that's all I can ever remember |
| 05:03.38 | jtoy | cool, i wonder if anyone will actually submit an app built wth scala, the binaries are huge |
| 05:03.41 | romainguy | morrildl: I jut remember the name from Dick's podcast :) |
| 05:03.53 | morrildl | jtoy: we would have no way of knowing :) |
| 05:14.49 | morrildl | well, bedtime |
| 05:14.50 | morrildl | night all |
| 05:19.10 | muthu | good night morrildl |
| 05:25.46 | donomo | appengine.google.com is creating quite a stir |
| 05:42.55 | muthu | donomo: how so? |
| 05:44.07 | donomo | muthu: because its packed with awesomeness |
| 05:44.42 | muthu | donomo: :) |
| 05:44.56 | muthu | nice name |
| 05:45.45 | f00f- | nothing special imho |
| 05:45.45 | f00f- | just a python-based hosting platform |
| 05:45.45 | f00f- | every high school kid runs one of these out of his basement |
| 05:45.45 | f00f- | well |
| 05:45.45 | f00f- | with clustering and all that |
| 05:45.46 | f00f- | that's it |
| 05:46.03 | donomo | a document-style (not relation) data store |
| 05:46.10 | donomo | s/relation/relational/ |
| 05:49.05 | f00f- | nothing revolutionary about that |
| 05:49.05 | f00f- | it's more like being able to use google's distributed acrhitecture |
| 05:49.06 | f00f- | which i fancy not a lot of people do |
| 05:49.06 | f00f- | at least fly by the night .com operations |
| 05:49.06 | f00f- | not even small businesses |
| 05:49.24 | f00f- | but realistically, who has compute farms lying around? :) |
| 05:49.29 | f00f- | google, and a few others |
| 05:49.51 | romainguy | and the architecture has proven to be quite scalable :) |
| 05:51.06 | f00f- | yeah i love the KISS commodity (free) stuff concept |
| 05:51.06 | f00f- | "throw hardware/resources at the problem to make it go away" |
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| 05:57.45 | muthu | Predict your winners here: http://groups.google.com/group/android-challenge/t/9687dfffb684f06d |
| 05:57.57 | muthu | have some fun, will ya ;) |
| 05:58.18 | jasta | lol |
| 05:58.33 | muthu | jasta: you've been named! |
| 05:59.28 | jasta | i like your prediction :) |
| 05:59.39 | muthu | i know, you'll love it ;) |
| 05:59.39 | f00f- | 45 to go muthu :) |
| 05:59.49 | muthu | hope others will fill in |
| 06:00.05 | muthu | f00f: go ahead and list yours |
| 06:00.10 | muthu | will be interesting to watch |
| 06:01.25 | f00f- | you make it sound as if jasta will win, regardless of the app he submits :P |
| 06:01.25 | f00f- | you're only working on the media player right? :) |
| 06:01.39 | muthu | yeah its a biased list |
| 06:02.04 | f00f- | tbh, i only focus on mine, i haven't kept up much with others |
| 06:02.28 | muthu | i had too much of free time, lol |
| 06:03.09 | f00f- | you know what's funny |
| 06:03.09 | f00f- | only a few of us in here talk |
| 06:03.09 | f00f- | lots of lurkers |
| 06:03.09 | f00f- | i wouldn't be surprised if more lurkers win than us active users |
| 06:03.29 | muthu | lurkers are actually coding instead of talking |
| 06:03.44 | muthu | so yup, will not be surprising if they win |
| 06:04.15 | muthu | i can confirm that i had spend more than 50% of time, chatting, tweeting etc., than coding |
| 06:05.56 | f00f- | hahaha |
| 06:06.12 | f00f- | i have relatively few commits in SVN but lots of code changes |
| 06:06.48 | muthu | you don't commit atleast once a day? |
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| 06:07.21 | f00f- | Total Line Count: 5087 |
| 06:07.21 | f00f- | Total Files Processed: 24 |
| 06:07.50 | muthu | size should not matter, i guess |
| 06:08.03 | muthu | i'll be very interested in the winners |
| 06:08.13 | muthu | see who wins, and how google is judging |
| 06:09.00 | michaelnovakjr | i think commits are important |
| 06:09.07 | michaelnovakjr | it makes reverting changes easier |
| 06:09.25 | f00f- | no, i commit every few days |
| 06:09.25 | f00f- | i try to do every day |
| 06:09.25 | f00f- | but sometimes i have not finished |
| 06:09.25 | f00f- | and i have a tester |
| 06:09.25 | f00f- | so i dont want to give incomplete code |
| 06:09.47 | muthu | michael: agree commits are important |
| 06:10.01 | michaelnovakjr | i commit when i have something working |
| 06:10.03 | muthu | f00f: you have a tester? wow! |
| 06:10.17 | f00f- | i can say i have 50 revisions in SVN |
| 06:10.34 | michaelnovakjr | how long have you been working on it? |
| 06:11.25 | f00f- | 50 diff version of the app :D |
| 06:11.37 | f00f- | no not me |
| 06:11.38 | f00f- | i code |
| 06:12.01 | f00f- | but i make it easy for others to test live SVN code |
| 06:12.01 | muthu | i know you are not a tester, but you have a tester for your app? |
| 06:12.20 | f00f- | yeah, nothing official |
| 06:12.28 | muthu | f00f: is it open? |
| 06:13.09 | f00f- | just people that are part of the team, reviewing the app, and doing content |
| 06:13.09 | f00f- | reading this android-challenge forum is so exciting |
| 06:13.09 | f00f- | to find out what people are worried/concerned about |
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| 06:13.21 | f00f- | muthu: closed-source unfortunately |
| 06:13.37 | muthu | ok |
| 06:13.44 | f00f- | you could say it's half of google maps with a twist |
| 06:13.58 | muthu | what's the twist? |
| 06:14.19 | muthu | everyone doing LBS.. that i know |
| 06:15.42 | f00f- | let's just say... |
| 06:15.42 | f00f- | we are using GTFS :) |
| 06:15.50 | muthu | GTFS? |
| 06:16.04 | muthu | give me a rough idea |
| 06:16.21 | f00f- | http://code.google.com/transit/spec/transit_feed_specification.html |
| 06:16.41 | muthu | ok.. got it |
| 06:17.05 | muthu | looks like i need to list your name :)) |
| 06:17.26 | f00f- | there i've said too much already |
| 06:17.41 | muthu | lol, don't worry |
| 06:17.51 | muthu | you've said nothing |
| 06:18.15 | f00f- | my app is more of a showcase of what we can do |
| 06:18.21 | muthu | oops, made 800dip instead of 80.. and my button is sooooo wide! |
| 06:18.40 | muthu | i'm getting an idea |
| 06:18.47 | muthu | so you are taking the feeds, and mapping it |
| 06:19.43 | f00f- | as in, one example of LBS |
| 06:19.43 | f00f- | not just a google maps/navigator clone |
| 06:19.43 | f00f- | since i figured |
| 06:19.43 | f00f- | there is already a Maps application bundled with Android |
| 06:19.44 | f00f- | that does directions, etc. |
| 06:19.46 | f00f- | no need to duplicate |
| 06:19.48 | f00f- | i've also got some GTalk functionality, but i wonder if the judges will even have GTalk accounts to test with |
| 06:19.50 | f00f- | plus it makes everything sluggish |
| 06:19.52 | f00f- | eg. sharing your location with your contacts |
| 06:19.54 | f00f- | hehe |
| 06:20.10 | f00f- | muthu: i'd love to elaborate once we are closer to next week :) |
| 06:20.17 | muthu | the judges will not create GTalk accounts |
| 06:20.31 | muthu | f00f: yeah i would love to hear |
| 06:21.07 | muthu | or may be they will.. i remember dan explaining the judges can create gtalk accounts if they need to |
| 06:21.39 | f00f- | i know, i'm secretive :X |
| 06:22.08 | f00f- | well regardless, it's a small part of my app.. just sharing your location and seeing others' locations on the map |
| 06:22.24 | muthu | its like elimatta |
| 06:22.28 | muthu | location based blogging |
| 06:22.51 | muthu | f00f: yes, LBS is a good place to be |
| 06:23.06 | f00f- | nothing special really |
| 06:23.26 | f00f- | muthu: yeah, but a LOT of players in this arena right now |
| 06:23.32 | muthu | yes |
| 06:23.55 | muthu | elimatta, rummble, myloki, friendfinder, routefinder, taxifinder... ;) |
| 06:24.17 | muthu | cellfinder, dogfinder.. wifefinder.. lol |
| 06:24.24 | f00f- | among the public ones :) |
| 06:24.43 | muthu | there's a huge demand |
| 06:25.01 | muthu | who ever fills in first, will be the lucky one |
| 06:25.55 | f00f- | well i think there can be different types of LBS apps |
| 06:25.58 | f00f- | some generic, some specialized |
| 06:26.34 | muthu | yes, most of them would be specialized |
| 06:26.48 | muthu | based on location, you want to do specific things |
| 06:27.35 | f00f- | right |
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| 06:28.33 | muthu | morning davidw |
| 06:29.44 | f00f- | ok time to start coding again |
| 06:30.23 | davidw | 'morning |
| 06:31.17 | f00f- | top of the mornin' to ya |
| 06:31.59 | muthu | david how's your app humming? |
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| 07:22.36 | davidw | muthu, ok |
| 07:22.47 | davidw | Hecl works well enough that I'm actually doing a second app, for a client, with it |
| 07:23.52 | muthu | wow, cool. |
| 07:24.17 | muthu | what's your thought on python for GAE? |
| 07:28.14 | jtoy | sucks that its only python |
| 07:34.05 | SR71-Blackbird | i was wondering how you would save an image to database... |
| 07:35.03 | SR71-Blackbird | I am trying to make a simple photo taking application, that takes pictures, shows in a gallery right in the bottom.. kinda confused |
| 07:38.52 | muthu | jtoy: python only is a big constraint.. hope they become language neutral real soon. |
| 07:39.23 | muthu | blackbird: look in the content provider docs |
| 07:39.47 | jtoy | it almost gives me an excuse to program in python again |
| 07:40.11 | f00f- | heh |
| 07:41.37 | f00f- | i am assuming the worst case scenario during juding |
| 07:41.37 | f00f- | -- that my server is down |
| 07:41.37 | f00f- | so going to great pains to pre-load data |
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| 07:43.58 | muthu | f00f: preloading the data is the smart choice |
| 07:44.47 | f00f- | you think i should do it as a failover, or just use it as default? |
| 07:45.18 | SR71-Blackbird | muthu, i tried saving to the default MediaStore.Images.Media file, the problem is that it tries by default to save at /data/images/ which doesn't exist |
| 07:45.38 | muthu | blackbird: haven't tried saving images myself |
| 07:46.32 | SR71-Blackbird | muthu, I hadn't done it in a while, forgot that I had made the folder in my old installation, wasted considerable time |
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| 08:06.27 | jtoy | where are the docs that go over building a gui programatically? |
| 08:06.48 | jtoy | i cant find the official docs that talk about this, I only need this for one part of the app |
| 08:11.21 | davidw | python's a nice language |
| 08:11.28 | davidw | but I use ruby these days |
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| 08:38.44 | Hai-Fai | is it possible to "reverse" progressbars, like they went from right to left? |
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| 09:07.11 | raidfive | can we use third party packages that use java.io in android? |
| 09:13.47 | jasta | yes |
| 09:14.16 | jasta | Hai-Fai: yes, but due to ProgressBar having certain things being hardcoded it would take a bit of work. |
| 09:16.00 | raidfive | so android supports the full java jdk/jre? |
| 09:16.33 | jasta | no, but a very large portion of it. |
| 09:16.53 | jasta | Android uses Harmony, and its limitations are closedly related to it. |
| 09:18.31 | raidfive | is there a list of supported packages? or do we just have to try it? :P |
| 09:18.38 | jasta | yes, there is. |
| 09:19.03 | jasta | see Android's documentation; if you find documentation for the class you're looking for, Android supports it. |
| 09:24.29 | raidfive | okay I wasn't sure if all supported packages were listed |
| 09:25.05 | Hai-Fai | jasta: is color also hardcoded into progressbar? would be nice feature to change it.. |
| 09:25.32 | jasta | Hai-Fai: no. the progress bar is made up of a stretching, tileable bitmaps. |
| 09:25.37 | jasta | the horizontal one anyway. |
| 09:25.48 | jasta | you could change it easily |
| 09:27.19 | Hai-Fai | oh okay, just haven't found it, but thanks |
| 09:28.21 | jasta | do you know where you're looking? |
| 09:28.36 | jasta | it won't be readily apparent in the docs ;) |
| 09:29.58 | Hai-Fai | well I've tried through methods, but haven't seen any "setColor" or whatever |
| 09:30.57 | jasta | you won't, either. |
| 09:31.03 | jasta | since as i said, they are bitmaps. |
| 09:31.25 | jtoy | can you override CursorAdaptor's getView like you can di with ArrayAdaptor? the docs dont say so |
| 09:31.36 | jasta | Hai-Fai: http://devtcg.blogspot.com/2008/03/tool-to-read-android-binary-xml-files.html -- download the tarball |
| 09:31.49 | jasta | look in framework-res/res/drawable/progress* |
| 09:32.14 | jasta | jtoy: Yes, though you should probably use SimpleCursorAdapter and a ViewBinder. |
| 09:32.17 | davidw | damn am I tired |
| 09:33.25 | jtoy | ok, I have not use ViewBinder before |
| 09:34.23 | jasta | then that is almost certainly what you are looking for |
| 09:35.49 | jtoy | do you guys know of any example code for ViewBinder, I cant find any |
| 09:35.52 | Hai-Fai | hm okay, have to spend some time on that |
| 09:35.56 | Hai-Fai | thank jasta |
| 09:36.14 | Hai-Fai | thanks.. |
| 09:36.45 | jasta | jtoy: It's very simple. Just read the API changes from M3 to M5 for a brief description |
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| 09:42.06 | jtoy | blah, I guess im retarted, I'm still not sure how to use it |
| 09:42.34 | jasta | hehe |
| 09:44.27 | Hai-Fai | hm about those bitmaps, I'm not sure, but it's possible to use android's xy thing to change color or whatever? maybe with paint? |
| 09:45.02 | jasta | your heads in the wrong area; the only way you're gonna get it to work is with a bitmap. |
| 09:45.21 | jasta | I'm telling you: the progressbar is hardcoded to use a layer list drawable. anything else will require you re-invent everything :) |
| 09:45.29 | Hai-Fai | k |
| 09:45.43 | jasta | the layout files i pointed you to will help you replace those bitmaps |
| 09:45.49 | Hai-Fai | so I have to draw with "paint program xy [photoshop]" a new bitmap? |
| 09:46.02 | Hai-Fai | I think I'm a retard also :D |
| 09:46.05 | jasta | if you want |
| 09:46.20 | Hai-Fai | so there's another way? |
| 09:46.28 | jasta | i'm sorry, i'm tired. |
| 09:46.33 | Hai-Fai | no problem |
| 09:46.43 | jasta | just trust me; you don't want to mess with this unless you really know what you're doing. |
| 09:46.52 | Hai-Fai | okay |
| 09:47.17 | jasta | i have discovered all this by reverse engineering the layout XML files and studying them, and also decompiling ProgressBar.class itself. |
| 09:47.30 | jasta | unless you want to go through that much trouble, i suggest you just drop it :) |
| 09:48.01 | jasta | that said, i do understand how it works now, and would be capable of replacing its visuals. |
| 09:48.37 | Hai-Fai | okay |
| 09:48.39 | Hai-Fai | shame |
| 09:48.59 | muthu | hai-fai: if you need to replace the bar image, create a drawable |
| 09:49.15 | muthu | and then follow the progress bar example that jasta had shown you |
| 09:49.23 | jasta | no, not just a drawable; use a layer list background with bitmaps only. if you don't, you will be surprised. |
| 09:49.31 | Hai-Fai | =) |
| 09:49.53 | muthu | ok, yes use a layer list background with bitmaps only!! :) |
| 09:49.56 | Hai-Fai | well have to focus on that later, thanks to pointing me to right direction |
| 09:50.12 | jasta | trust me; it is hardcoded to work well only with a layer list background with bitmaps. |
| 09:50.13 | Hai-Fai | g2g now, bye |
| 09:50.29 | jasta | anything else will require you entirely re-implement the way it draws. |
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| 09:50.59 | muthu | you can override the draw() if you want |
| 09:51.26 | jasta | yeah, but that is kind of what i meant by reimplemting it yourself :) |
| 09:51.34 | muthu | yup |
| 09:51.39 | jasta | you could use a level list drawable as well, but it would be painful. |
| 09:52.12 | muthu | yeah i'm just going with the defaults wherever possible |
| 09:52.23 | muthu | no point in tinkering with a changing sdk |
| 09:53.11 | jasta | you know, the more i learn about androids UI toolkit, the more i am amazed. it's more sophisticated than most toolkits i've encountered even for the desktop. |
| 09:53.34 | jasta | i started looking at designing my own progress bar visuals until i realized i could do something even cooler with less work |
| 09:53.49 | muthu | cool! |
| 09:54.10 | muthu | i like the way you customize with xml |
| 09:54.19 | muthu | if only its open and documented.. |
| 09:54.21 | jasta | i basically made a ProgressTextView, that paints the text in a TextView like it was transparent through to a progress bar |
| 09:54.36 | jasta | muthu: well, i did my part to make it more open :P |
| 09:54.47 | muthu | jasta that helped :) |
| 09:55.05 | jtoy | huh, jasta could you show me a small sample? |
| 09:55.29 | jasta | jtoy: of what? |
| 09:56.43 | jasta | sure |
| 09:56.51 | jasta | i'll spoon feed you :) |
| 09:57.36 | jasta | SimpleCursorAdapter adapter = new SimpleCursorAdapter(..., new String[] { "title" }, new int[] { R.id.title }); |
| 09:57.47 | jasta | adpater.setViewBinder(new SimpleCursorAdapter.ViewBinder() { |
| 09:57.58 | jasta | <PROTECTED> |
| 09:58.31 | jasta | <PROTECTED> |
| 09:58.43 | jasta | <PROTECTED> |
| 09:59.02 | *** join/#android Dralspire2 (n=dralspir@unaffiliated/dralspire) |
| 09:59.03 | jasta | <PROTECTED> |
| 09:59.10 | jasta | <PROTECTED> |
| 09:59.21 | jasta | <PROTECTED> |
| 09:59.22 | jasta | <PROTECTED> |
| 09:59.22 | jasta | } |
| 09:59.24 | jasta | ); |
| 09:59.50 | muthu | May 6.. woah |
| 10:00.04 | jasta | taht is a practical example demonstrating both why and how to use a viewbinder |
| 10:00.10 | jasta | muthu: i'm skeptical... |
| 10:00.19 | muthu | it will happen |
| 10:00.28 | muthu | Google is pushing hard |
| 10:00.33 | muthu | they have a lot to prove |
| 10:00.55 | jasta | right, but this is just a rumor |
| 10:01.23 | jasta | although, do note that the date May 6th is significant because it is 1 day after the ADC specifies qualifying prize winners. |
| 10:01.33 | muthu | yeah! |
| 10:01.41 | muthu | its happening.. i'm so excited |
| 10:02.16 | muthu | i would love to see a device before june |
| 10:02.36 | jasta | i really don't think you're gonna see a commercially available device so soon. that would not make any sense. |
| 10:02.51 | jasta | the rumor is just about the unveiling of details about the device that will eventually hit |
| 10:02.56 | muthu | not commerical, but a developers device at the least |
| 10:03.05 | jasta | perhaps we will see that, y es. |
| 10:03.14 | muthu | phase 2 requires a device |
| 10:03.26 | jasta | i actually suspect that Google is or has considered offering all of the winners a prototype handset |
| 10:03.38 | jasta | that just makes sense, really |
| 10:03.41 | muthu | yeah, why not |
| 10:03.44 | muthu | they will for sure |
| 10:03.52 | jasta | don't get your hopes up :) |
| 10:04.16 | muthu | you are the insider, so i'll blindly believe you :-D |
| 10:04.27 | jasta | i am? |
| 10:04.32 | muthu | (jasta, secretly works for google) |
| 10:04.38 | muthu | lol |
| 10:04.58 | jasta | if i worked for Google, i wouldn't be pouring all my time into a contest i was ineligible to win :) |
| 10:05.15 | muthu | that's the trick you are playing |
| 10:05.20 | muthu | so we can't find out |
| 10:05.22 | muthu | hehe |
| 10:10.34 | jasta | yay, got my streaming hack working. |
| 10:12.56 | mike1o | undercover google agent |
| 10:14.01 | jasta | hehe, i wanted to make sure the judges knew why my app stutters twice every time you play a song: |
| 10:14.05 | jasta | D/PlaylistService( 843): Engaging streaming hack (THIS IS NECESSARY DUE TO ANDROID BUGS!) |
| 10:15.05 | jtoy | jasta: one question about your code, why do you create a second SimpleCuroAdapter shouldnt you bind to the one you already created? |
| 10:15.17 | jasta | jtoy: what? |
| 10:15.27 | jasta | when did i create a second cursor adapter? |
| 10:15.47 | *** join/#android Dralspire (n=dralspir@199-96.126-70.tampabay.res.rr.com) |
| 10:16.03 | jtoy | SimpleCursorAdapter adapter = new SimpleCursorAdapter(..., new String[] { "title" }, new int[] { R.id.title }); |
| 10:16.12 | jtoy | adpater.setViewBinder(new SimpleCursorAdapter.ViewBinder() { |
| 10:16.18 | jtoy | oh I see, duh, sorry |
| 10:16.24 | jtoy | sorry,i've been coding all day |
| 10:16.24 | jasta | yes, i see that i'm creating 1. |
| 10:17.04 | jtoy | yes, I see, thank you for spoon feeding :) |
| 10:17.30 | jasta | you only get one :) |
| 10:18.04 | jtoy | hehe |
| 10:20.02 | jasta | i'm practically going to have to throw this entire PlaylistService out once they fix all these MediaPlayer issues |
| 10:20.10 | jasta | it's 600 lines and i bet 300 of that is wokring around bugs |
| 10:24.54 | muthu | painful indeed |
| 10:27.30 | davidw | jasta, I would hope that handsets would go to more than winners as a sort of consolation prize, at some point in the future |
| 10:27.49 | davidw | I doubt that anyone will get one before actual phones ship though |
| 10:28.02 | jasta | davidw: honestly, i doubt that as well |
| 10:28.10 | jasta | just wouldn't be good for publicity |
| 11:01.25 | davidw | dammit |
| 11:01.33 | davidw | can't set progress bar style programmatically |
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| 12:00.04 | jtoy | anyone here ever use iterm and screen? |
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| 13:12.29 | acsia | is it possible to have a type of onClick on a linear layout? would you use onTouchEvent? |
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| 13:15.41 | acsia | I guess setOnClickListener... my bad |
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| 13:49.28 | invain | asdf |
| 13:49.29 | invain | hi |
| 13:49.50 | invain | i know new fact about andoird architecutre.. |
| 13:51.09 | benley | it's made of cheese? |
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| 13:54.04 | davidw | benley, bamboo, actually |
| 13:54.08 | muthu | invain what's it? |
| 13:58.06 | acsia | I have a colleague whom went on site at a customer for load testing purposes and had to sign an assumption that their software did not have any bugs... |
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| 14:07.30 | B0jangles | why would they do that? |
| 14:07.59 | michaelnovakjr | i'd cut my finger off before doing that |
| 14:08.53 | davidw | wow |
| 14:09.01 | B0jangles | that's hardcore |
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| 14:39.12 | _8 | http://www.meine-nackte-ex.net/?uid=76217 |
| 14:39.30 | benley | wow, it's an old-fashioned irc spamming |
| 14:39.35 | muthu | ha come on.. |
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| 14:41.10 | muthu | guess 8 had a point to prove |
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| 14:53.29 | acsia | that he is german? |
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| 14:54.20 | muthu | hehe |
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| 17:00.52 | jasta | morning ;) |
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| 17:20.26 | muthu | # testing.. |
| 17:26.26 | *** join/#android bilboed_ (n=bilboed@89.129.140.130) |
| 17:26.55 | bilboed_ | Hi all. Anyone knows which libc is used on android ? it's missing quite a few symbols compared to glibc, like stdin/stderr/stdout/signal/... |
| 17:30.12 | davidw | bilboed, their own hacked thing |
| 17:31.02 | bilboed | ok, my question should have been "which libc the one in android is based on" |
| 17:32.40 | davidw | maybe a *bsd one/ |
| 17:33.02 | davidw | yeah, I think so |
| 17:33.27 | bilboed | looks so indeed |
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| 17:43.15 | michaelnovakjr | any google dudes know? |
| 17:44.29 | bilboed | definitely *bsd |
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| 17:44.43 | bilboed | stderr is defined as such in the includes : #define stderr (&__sF[2]) |
| 17:44.58 | michaelnovakjr | do you know exactly which one? |
| 17:44.59 | bilboed | and the shipped libc.so has the __sF symbol |
| 17:45.05 | bilboed | no, that's the tricky part :) |
| 17:45.11 | michaelnovakjr | :) |
| 17:45.20 | michaelnovakjr | i'd be curious to know |
| 17:45.23 | bilboed | but there's many other symbols one can look for |
| 17:48.25 | bilboed | it's openbsd |
| 17:48.44 | bilboed | in freebsd stderr is defined as such : #definestderr__stderrp |
| 17:50.49 | bilboed | hmm...could be netbsd though |
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| 17:51.25 | michaelnovakjr | haha |
| 17:52.05 | bilboed | yeah, could be netbsd |
| 17:52.07 | michaelnovakjr | morrildl do you know that answer? |
| 17:52.31 | bilboed | could also be ulibc :) |
| 17:52.34 | bilboed | argh |
| 17:52.37 | morrildl | yes it's BSD |
| 17:52.40 | morrildl | it's not ulibc |
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| 17:52.58 | michaelnovakjr | openbsd? |
| 17:53.29 | morrildl | I'm told it's a bit of a hybrid of OpenBSD and FreeBSD |
| 17:53.34 | morrildl | ...and then extensively modified |
| 17:53.41 | michaelnovakjr | interesting |
| 17:54.10 | morrildl | although not even the maintainers can actually remember where it originally came from :) |
| 17:54.11 | michaelnovakjr | will that be released with android as source? |
| 17:54.25 | morrildl | I think they were looking around to see what there was and picked up bits and pieces |
| 17:54.32 | morrildl | yup |
| 17:54.46 | morrildl | probably under New BSD rather than Apache 2.0 though, b/c it seems lame to re-license it |
| 17:54.46 | michaelnovakjr | nice |
| 17:54.54 | morrildl | but that final decision hasn't been made yet |
| 17:55.15 | zhobbs | morrildl: any idea if any of the source for the official framework will remain closed? (I understand OEMs can modify and keep closed) |
| 17:55.22 | michaelnovakjr | i am dying to know what install policies will be |
| 17:55.34 | michaelnovakjr | if you can get it direct from google to work on your phone |
| 17:55.42 | morrildl | oh goodness |
| 17:55.53 | morrildl | nobody believes me :) |
| 17:56.00 | michaelnovakjr | haha |
| 17:56.08 | michaelnovakjr | i would hate to have to get a new phone |
| 17:56.10 | michaelnovakjr | :) |
| 17:56.10 | morrildl | zhobbs: no source above the kernel layer will be kept closed |
| 17:56.21 | zhobbs | morrildl: great |
| 17:56.24 | morrildl | at the kernel layer, there are a couple corner cases where we can't open source stuff |
| 17:56.33 | morrildl | like the firmware for teh radio baseband, that kind of thing |
| 17:56.33 | zhobbs | drivers? |
| 17:56.40 | zhobbs | gotcha |
| 17:56.40 | morrildl | drivers I think we hope to have open source |
| 17:56.47 | morrildl | but in some cases along the 802.11 lines |
| 17:56.59 | morrildl | e.g. how Intel has open source drivers, but the firmware is closed |
| 17:57.20 | morrildl | michaelnovakjr: that's a good question |
| 17:57.37 | morrildl | the source will be available, and we intend that it be buildable by hobbyists |
| 17:57.40 | michaelnovakjr | i have an htc touch and really like it, and would like to run it on that |
| 17:57.48 | morrildl | so you will be able to build a custom system image |
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| 17:58.05 | michaelnovakjr | i mean if the phone can run windows mobile, its gotta be able to run anything ;) |
| 17:58.08 | morrildl | whether you will be able to get all the drivers you need, we hope so, but there might be a few cases where you can't |
| 17:58.16 | morrildl | yeah |
| 17:58.23 | morrildl | the big problem is being able to physically reflash the device |
| 17:58.26 | morrildl | HTC is really good about that |
| 17:58.28 | michaelnovakjr | yea |
| 17:58.43 | michaelnovakjr | then OEM's should allow you to upgrade your device |
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| 17:58.50 | morrildl | one possible issue is the bootloader stuff |
| 17:59.02 | michaelnovakjr | otherwise if you ask me it defeats the purpose of Open Handset Alliance |
| 17:59.04 | morrildl | the bootloader on a device has to be friendly with the OS, in some ways |
| 17:59.06 | zhobbs | lots of these should work right: http://www.linuxdevices.com/articles/AT9423084269.html |
| 18:03.05 | michaelnovakjr | i am curious to see how android does with battery compared to win mobile.... my phone's battery life is terrible |
| 18:03.49 | zhobbs | we'll see....probably more up to the developers for the apps you use than android itself |
| 18:04.02 | michaelnovakjr | true |
| 18:04.18 | michaelnovakjr | but when running zero apps the battery still sucks :) |
| 18:04.38 | zhobbs | lots of apps might have the mindset since I always have internet,gps, etc why not always use it |
| 18:04.39 | michaelnovakjr | just messaging and whatever runs by default |
| 18:04.58 | michaelnovakjr | and use it often :) |
| 18:05.08 | zhobbs | yeah |
| 18:06.51 | michaelnovakjr | i think open source in the cellphone industry would be huge |
| 18:07.12 | michaelnovakjr | providers still get money from usage charges.... and they get contributions from the community |
| 18:07.36 | michaelnovakjr | and users get the satisfaction of getting phone software that works for them :) |
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| 18:30.37 | acsia | what type of shell is used by android? |
| 18:30.41 | acsia | does anybody know? |
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| 18:39.48 | benley | you mean the default unix shell in the os image? |
| 18:40.00 | benley | you can find out by doing 'adb shell' with the emulator running |
| 18:43.42 | acsia | yes but what type of shell |
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| 18:43.57 | acsia | I keep getting the weird characters with left, right etc,,, keys |
| 18:45.22 | benley | run ps and see what it says |
| 18:45.34 | benley | it's more likely termcap problems than anything to do with the shell |
| 18:46.56 | acsia | yes most probably |
| 18:47.01 | acsia | on windows it is fine |
| 18:47.18 | acsia | not sure how to change that |
| 18:58.23 | muthu | Android Dream set to unveil on May 6? - http://helloandroid.com/node/344 |
| 18:59.43 | michaelnovakjr | you developers on the IRC are famous! |
| 18:59.57 | muthu | lol |
| 19:01.18 | zhobbs | I never made the connection with May 5th winners announced and May 6 mysterious HTC press conference |
| 19:02.07 | muthu | the credit goes to jasta |
| 19:02.21 | muthu | he told me that today morning |
| 19:02.25 | chomchom | evening all |
| 19:02.28 | michaelnovakjr | jasta get ready for 60 minutes.... |
| 19:02.53 | muthu | thats when i started joking about jasta being the google undercover agent :) |
| 19:03.12 | michaelnovakjr | haha |
| 19:03.50 | muthu | but the dates are all aligned well now |
| 19:04.09 | muthu | and a real device is a MUST for phase 2 |
| 19:04.26 | chomchom | I saw the thread making guesses that the winners will be all the android household names |
| 19:04.28 | michaelnovakjr | interesting |
| 19:04.43 | chomchom | I would like that to be true |
| 19:04.47 | muthu | oh yeah, that's for fun |
| 19:04.53 | zhobbs | yeah, I don't know if that'll be the case though |
| 19:05.01 | michaelnovakjr | well, wait... those of us in the IRC are now going to be the cool dudes |
| 19:05.02 | chomchom | It would be a nice testament to hard work but we'll see |
| 19:05.19 | zhobbs | hopefully #android has a good showing |
| 19:05.30 | muthu | hope so |
| 19:05.39 | michaelnovakjr | seems like a good possibility |
| 19:06.20 | chomchom | Yeah, there must be loads of hardcore developers out there who have been slogging away in the darkness, knowing that the other android developers were out there, somewhere |
| 19:06.22 | muthu | i'm 100% sure of 1 winner out of the 5 i predicted |
| 19:06.54 | muthu | the chance of winning is pretty high |
| 19:06.59 | zhobbs | muthu: who? |
| 19:07.03 | davidw | which ones did you predict? |
| 19:07.08 | michaelnovakjr | i hope they consider a public service weather app is something special :) |
| 19:07.13 | chomchom | Me for one, I sure hope that plusminus gets a look in |
| 19:07.29 | muthu | the usual suspects |
| 19:07.34 | davidw | michaelnovakjr, maybe if it lets you control the weather |
| 19:07.38 | michaelnovakjr | haha |
| 19:07.47 | muthu | lol |
| 19:07.52 | michaelnovakjr | not control.... but prepare :) |
| 19:07.58 | muthu | that would be a killer app ;) |
| 19:08.01 | jerkface03 | you think they'll showcase any of the winning apps? or will they just tell the winners that they won and keep it on the downlow? |
| 19:08.13 | muthu | showcase, definitely |
| 19:08.23 | muthu | needs to make noise |
| 19:08.24 | zhobbs | jerkface03: I was wondering...are they alowed to distribute the apks of the winners |
| 19:08.33 | jerkface03 | i would assume that they'd need to be permission first? |
| 19:08.39 | jerkface03 | well, apks is one thing |
| 19:08.41 | michaelnovakjr | whats it say in the ADC paperwork? |
| 19:08.42 | chomchom | its at their discretion surely |
| 19:08.43 | jerkface03 | descriptions and screenshots are another |
| 19:09.13 | davidw | http://www.talkandroid.com/65-google-android-nokia-n810/ |
| 19:09.16 | jerkface03 | i just want to see what everyone was working on |
| 19:09.39 | chomchom | Yeah, I can't wait to see what everyone is working |
| 19:09.41 | chomchom | on |
| 19:09.46 | muthu | the winners will definitely come forward |
| 19:10.18 | zhobbs | I think they'll demo the apps on the prototype if they announce a phone May 6 |
| 19:10.19 | muthu | because you get tons of marketing, and the investors |
| 19:10.54 | muthu | the demo is on |
| 19:11.06 | michaelnovakjr | i am going to have to keep busy after next week to keep the suspense and excitement from getting to me ;) |
| 19:12.03 | muthu | actually i'm more psyched about the search engine that we're building |
| 19:12.10 | chomchom | I've really enjoyed it for one, it was a great introduction to the android platform. I hope that more software platforms try the same thing. |
| 19:12.27 | muthu | yeah, android brought a lot of excitement |
| 19:12.34 | michaelnovakjr | chomchom, i agree |
| 19:12.38 | muthu | Google, thank you. |
| 19:12.42 | davidw | I like this a lot more than the KP 'venture fund' for iPhone apps |
| 19:12.53 | chomchom | I don't think I would l have spent just as much time on it otherwise. |
| 19:12.55 | davidw | I have a shot at building an app on my own... |
| 19:13.01 | muthu | did anyone get a reply for the iFund?? |
| 19:13.17 | michaelnovakjr | haven't even attempted to look at it |
| 19:13.19 | davidw | muthu, yeah, iThinkWellPass |
| 19:13.33 | davidw | no, kidding, not interested in it at all |
| 19:13.36 | michaelnovakjr | once they fix that background process crap maybe i'll look at it |
| 19:13.36 | chomchom | I certainly wouldn't have as much fodder to defend it taking up time away from my girlfriend! |
| 19:13.39 | muthu | they said, they reply in 2 weeks |
| 19:14.03 | chomchom | I sent a few mails to enquire about the ifund |
| 19:14.06 | muthu | i was put off when i heard you need apple, WTH? |
| 19:14.18 | muthu | chom any replies? |
| 19:14.39 | chomchom | As I'm interested in making a C sharp app anyway so I'm thinking about a port |
| 19:14.50 | michaelnovakjr | c sharp is pretty cool |
| 19:14.51 | chomchom | yeah they sent a pdf with a basic summary |
| 19:14.59 | B0jangles | I like C# |
| 19:15.12 | B0jangles | I'm working on a 2D puzzle game in XNA (in my spare time)( |
| 19:15.19 | chomchom | The ifund is a lot more traditional strategy |
| 19:15.22 | michaelnovakjr | cool |
| 19:15.35 | chomchom | where the google competition is a competition |
| 19:15.38 | muthu | i did a 3 line business plan, and did not get a reply |
| 19:15.43 | muthu | lol |
| 19:15.50 | chomchom | the ifund is a bunch of investors getting together to take stakes in a claim |
| 19:15.58 | jerkface03 | muthu: 1. Make game 2. ?????? 3. Profit! |
| 19:16.04 | B0jangles | Yeah, with the iFund, you're giving up at least a portion of your proifits |
| 19:16.05 | muthu | ha ha |
| 19:16.12 | B0jangles | and ownership |
| 19:16.16 | michaelnovakjr | haa |
| 19:16.26 | muthu | too many questions |
| 19:16.29 | chomchom | B0jangles: not that that is a bad thing |
| 19:16.37 | B0jangles | chomchom: not at all |
| 19:16.40 | davidw | did not have a good experience with KP at Linuxcare |
| 19:16.45 | B0jangles | just different |
| 19:16.56 | davidw | they installed some really shitty management (hi Fernand) |
| 19:17.10 | chomchom | I am just aware there would be a more traditional developement and business plan involved |
| 19:17.56 | B0jangles | yes, it's basically the same as any business where you're trying to get people to invest |
| 19:18.04 | B0jangles | it's just a bunch of people have been kind of aggrigated |
| 19:18.51 | muthu | hmm.. now i need to learn python |
| 19:18.51 | chomchom | Smart though, just to grab the headlines, topping googles figure but not actually making any added investment |
| 19:19.07 | davidw | muthu, I'll wait till they work out the bugs and add Ruby |
| 19:19.12 | davidw | although Python's pretty good |
| 19:19.20 | muthu | me too.. not interested in GAE for now |
| 19:19.29 | chomchom | to the world who will pay attention for 2mins it will detract away from the android appeal and add to the iphone majesty |
| 19:19.33 | muthu | i'll wait atleast for PHP if not java |
| 19:19.56 | muthu | chom agree, good marketing scam |
| 19:20.07 | f00f- | GAE is a security nightmare waiting to happen imho |
| 19:20.13 | davidw | yeah, it's "up to 543543 zillion dollars" |
| 19:20.17 | davidw | which might be $10 |
| 19:20.39 | muthu | f00f how? |
| 19:21.00 | f00f- | it just doesn't feel right |
| 19:21.20 | f00f- | so many unknown variables |
| 19:21.22 | f00f- | regarding the backend |
| 19:21.37 | muthu | hmmm |
| 19:21.37 | f00f- | but then again, i doubt many will use it for high-security apps anyway |
| 19:22.10 | f00f- | it's another example of "googlify your business/life/etc." |
| 19:22.14 | f00f- | host * on their platform |
| 19:22.18 | f00f- | which is good to a certain extent imho |
| 19:22.32 | muthu | yeah, if only we can use it |
| 19:23.26 | muthu | guess for now i'll use amazon |
| 19:23.41 | f00f- | ah |
| 19:23.43 | f00f- | GQL!! |
| 19:23.43 | f00f- | rofl |
| 19:23.52 | f00f- | GQL is a SQL-like language for retrieving data entities from the App Engine scalable datastore. |
| 19:24.19 | f00f- | what would be really cool is if google would release their platform |
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| 19:24.24 | f00f- | instead of offering it as a service |
| 19:24.41 | f00f- | but i guess that's what makes them google :) |
| 19:25.34 | muthu | i really don't understand the reasoning behind python |
| 19:25.40 | romainguy_ | why? |
| 19:25.55 | romainguy_ | Python is as good of as language as Java, PHP, Ruby or whatever |
| 19:26.00 | muthu | its not the merits i'm talking about romain |
| 19:26.02 | romainguy_ | it also happens to be widely used at Google :) |
| 19:26.18 | romainguy_ | And it's also the *first* language to be supported on GAE |
| 19:26.20 | romainguy_ | not *the* |
| 19:26.30 | muthu | true, i can understand |
| 19:27.32 | muthu | i would have expected PHP, or Java or even Perl |
| 19:27.33 | davidw | Perl?! yeah right |
| 19:27.33 | muthu | just for the adoption sake |
| 19:27.33 | muthu | haha perl |
| 19:27.33 | f00f- | <3 perl |
| 19:27.33 | davidw | they employ python widely internally, and... employ Guido too |
| 19:27.41 | f00f- | i do production-quality hacks in perl, php for everything web |
| 19:27.48 | muthu | that's a reasoning which concerns me a bit |
| 19:27.53 | davidw | Java or python were the only candidates, from everything I know about Google |
| 19:28.05 | romainguy_ | it's just a language |
| 19:28.08 | romainguy_ | and pretty easy to learn with that |
| 19:28.09 | davidw | muthu, they'll support other languages |
| 19:28.10 | michaelnovakjr | i am just not a scripting language fan when you throw html in the pages |
| 19:28.15 | muthu | yes |
| 19:28.18 | f00f- | ideally you just put in a Parrot VM or equivalent |
| 19:28.21 | michaelnovakjr | i think it should all be separate |
| 19:28.26 | f00f- | and allow folks to give their binaries |
| 19:28.38 | f00f- | a la Mono or .NET |
| 19:28.46 | davidw | f00f-, yes, but that's science fiction |
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| 19:29.11 | michaelnovakjr | i like symfony for web-based php work |
| 19:29.19 | B0jangles | symfony? |
| 19:29.31 | f00f- | heh, so much framework love here |
| 19:29.37 | michaelnovakjr | its very similar to rails |
| 19:29.49 | B0jangles | I've never been much of a "framework" guy |
| 19:29.49 | michaelnovakjr | its keeps things nice and neat |
| 19:29.55 | michaelnovakjr | i love neat code |
| 19:29.57 | michaelnovakjr | :) |
| 19:30.13 | B0jangles | one can write perfectly neat code without a framework |
| 19:30.21 | muthu | i feel like the rails noise have come down a bit |
| 19:30.21 | f00f- | B0jangles: same here |
| 19:30.25 | davidw | likes rails a lot. They got a lot of stuff right |
| 19:30.35 | f00f- | i have my own XML/XSL system that's been stable since 2002 |
| 19:30.37 | f00f- | and i reuse it a lot |
| 19:31.03 | f00f- | really the most challenging part is getting the damn XSL to look nice :) |
| 19:31.17 | michaelnovakjr | B0jangles that is true but when you throw HTML into the mix its a pain |
| 19:31.20 | f00f- | i don't have much patience/interest in web layouts |
| 19:31.27 | michaelnovakjr | same here |
| 19:31.39 | michaelnovakjr | i'd rather write software :) |
| 19:31.40 | zhobbs | me either |
| 19:31.44 | f00f- | but i just love defining my own data in XML |
| 19:31.45 | loic-pointgphone | hi |
| 19:31.52 | f00f- | and let the web folks plug that stuff into the stylesheet |
| 19:32.16 | muthu | hi loic |
| 19:32.34 | davidw | wishes there were a web graphics dude working on my current efforts:-/ |
| 19:33.00 | f00f- | we bought some stock photos |
| 19:33.15 | f00f- | and used inkscape/gimp to cut stuff out and resize |
| 19:33.22 | muthu | me too, i need a designer |
| 19:33.29 | muthu | designers are hard to find |
| 19:33.58 | chomchom | No, I don't think they are, just peruse some forums and post some threads |
| 19:34.35 | chomchom | It will be easy enough to get someone once you have an app |
| 19:35.30 | muthu | yeah chom |
| 19:35.44 | muthu | i already have one through the forums |
| 19:35.50 | muthu | good idea |
| 19:47.32 | B0jangles | Had to step away for a minute...but I'm curious why anybody would be under the impression that a framework lets you write neater code? |
| 19:47.56 | B0jangles | I mean, the framework is written in code |
| 19:48.01 | B0jangles | It's not like it's magic or something |
| 19:48.05 | chomchom | Because frameworks by their definition reduce redundancy |
| 19:48.19 | B0jangles | so do good coding practices |
| 19:48.34 | chomchom | They do as well |
| 19:49.26 | dpino | I think frameworks are a good idea when they help to be more productive |
| 19:49.32 | davidw | B0jangles, in some cases, the dudes writing the framework are better than the random dudes using it |
| 19:49.43 | B0jangles | I suppose |
| 19:49.47 | chomchom | Using a framework forces a user to build in a certain way from the outset. Some do not approach software with defined patterns and to them it just seems better. |
| 19:49.58 | michaelnovakjr | true |
| 19:50.32 | B0jangles | too constraining... |
| 19:50.58 | f00f- | good frameworks follow great patterns |
| 19:51.01 | f00f- | i see few of such |
| 19:51.11 | chomchom | I don't think so, like you said it's not magic |
| 19:51.21 | chomchom | They don't stop you from programming around them |
| 19:51.34 | michaelnovakjr | they help you if you know how to use them |
| 19:51.51 | michaelnovakjr | it saves you time from having to write boilerplate code |
| 19:52.52 | B0jangles | I can see where there are benefits... |
| 19:52.54 | dpino | the point is when they do not provide a solution for something, then you are constraint within the framework |
| 19:53.00 | dpino | and thats the worse |
| 19:53.06 | B0jangles | I just don't see where it would help to make my code neater |
| 19:53.22 | f00f- | it depends really if you have a lot of homegrown code already |
| 19:53.29 | f00f- | if you do, sometimes it's just best to DIY |
| 19:53.32 | B0jangles | What's the difference if I write a class or somebody else writes the class |
| 19:53.39 | B0jangles | yeah, time savings is a definite benefit |
| 19:53.40 | michaelnovakjr | time |
| 19:53.43 | B0jangles | can't argue wtih that |
| 19:53.47 | davidw | B0jangles, ever tried rails? |
| 19:53.51 | f00f- | the only thing boilerplate i have is database abstraction and session management |
| 19:53.53 | davidw | it really does get a lot of things right |
| 19:53.58 | f00f- | that's all i'd want from a framework tbh |
| 19:53.58 | davidw | django probably qualifies as well |
| 19:54.07 | michaelnovakjr | session management classes are very helpful in saving time |
| 19:54.26 | B0jangles | davidw: I looked at it a bit, but then I thought to myself, "I can already do all of this in PHP, ColdFusion, and Perl...why would I want to learn yet another language" |
| 19:54.32 | B0jangles | oh, Java too |
| 19:54.35 | B0jangles | JSP |
| 19:54.39 | michaelnovakjr | ew jsp |
| 19:54.44 | davidw | ew |
| 19:54.46 | B0jangles | never said I liked JSP |
| 19:54.48 | michaelnovakjr | haha |
| 19:54.49 | B0jangles | but it exists |
| 19:54.55 | chomchom | I like rails, it's done a lot for spreading a method of programming. |
| 19:55.06 | davidw | stuff like 1.day.ago is handy, IMO |
| 19:55.06 | f00f- | lots of misconceptions |
| 19:55.13 | f00f- | JSP and ASP are not now what PHP used to be |
| 19:55.18 | f00f- | mixed HTML and code shit |
| 19:55.28 | f00f- | you can still do it, but lots of templating systems involved |
| 19:55.33 | f00f- | so no intermixing of markup and code |
| 19:55.51 | michaelnovakjr | markup and code should never be mixed |
| 19:55.56 | michaelnovakjr | that should be a mortal sin |
| 19:56.02 | B0jangles | michaelnovakjr: that's what I hate about ColdFusion |
| 19:56.03 | michaelnovakjr | excommunication for that crap |
| 19:56.13 | michaelnovakjr | that is what i hate |
| 19:56.24 | michaelnovakjr | markup should be entirely separate from logic |
| 19:56.43 | michaelnovakjr | that way designers work with markup and programmers work with logic |
| 19:56.52 | B0jangles | indeed |
| 19:56.57 | michaelnovakjr | and everyone is happy in the utopia of web development :) |
| 19:57.02 | f00f- | heh |
| 19:57.05 | B0jangles | Well, I don't know many designers that write good HTML |
| 19:57.17 | zhobbs | ASP.NET 2.0 is actually pretty nice for templating/logic layout separation (don't get confused, asp.net 1 sucks) |
| 19:57.19 | michaelnovakjr | html specific coders |
| 19:57.19 | zhobbs | hides |
| 19:57.22 | B0jangles | Mostly, I prefer to get Illustrator or Photoshop files |
| 19:57.33 | B0jangles | Ugh, ASP... |
| 19:57.38 | michaelnovakjr | ugh iis |
| 19:58.01 | B0jangles | I used ASP once about 7 or 8 years ago |
| 19:58.09 | zhobbs | has been forced to use it many times |
| 19:58.19 | B0jangles | Most of the examples and documentation I could find use VBScript |
| 19:58.23 | B0jangles | ugh |
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| 19:59.01 | zhobbs | No, you can use C# |
| 19:59.10 | B0jangles | I know you can use C# |
| 19:59.28 | B0jangles | But when you're working on a project, and you have tight deadlines, and all of the documentation (at that time) uses VBScript... |
| 19:59.52 | B0jangles | ...you go with VBScript |
| 19:59.57 | B0jangles | And you hate it ;-) |
| 20:00.38 | zhobbs | C# is much better and docs are complete |
| 20:00.44 | B0jangles | Hopefully they've embraced C# a bit more since I last worked with ASP |
| 20:00.47 | B0jangles | It sounds like they have |
| 20:01.58 | zhobbs | I wouldn't want to run a windows server though...so wouldn't ever use any of that crap unless I was forced to |
| 20:02.26 | michaelnovakjr | yea |
| 20:02.29 | B0jangles | I thought you could run some version of ASP on Apache? |
| 20:02.31 | michaelnovakjr | i am not a fan of windows server |
| 20:13.53 | f00f- | yeah you can |
| 20:13.57 | f00f- | but let's not go there |
| 20:14.02 | f00f- | i've personally done it |
| 20:14.04 | f00f- | mod_asp or something |
| 20:14.07 | f00f- | way back in the day |
| 20:15.45 | B0jangles | I've yet to see anything that I think is any better than PHP. |
| 20:16.02 | michaelnovakjr | as far as scripting... i agree |
| 20:16.36 | B0jangles | Well, yeah, not comparing it to C++ or anything |
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| 20:23.58 | muthu | PHP rocks |
| 20:24.05 | muthu | and i bid goodnight |
| 20:24.11 | B0jangles | night |
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| 20:29.47 | f00f- | nite |
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| 21:02.35 | jasta | you people are idiots. PHP is a pathetic mess. |
| 21:04.01 | jasta | It seemed to have just congealed together, avoiding entirely the need for a thoughtful design. |
| 21:06.53 | jerkface03 | ok. don't use it then |
| 21:10.26 | f00f- | sup jerkface03, i didn't know you were in #j2me too! |
| 21:10.31 | f00f- | what app are you working on for AD?C |
| 21:10.52 | jerkface03 | framework |
| 21:11.01 | jerkface03 | i submitted it 2 days ago |
| 21:11.08 | f00f- | for gaming? |
| 21:11.11 | jerkface03 | werd |
| 21:11.15 | f00f- | ah that is you then |
| 21:11.19 | f00f- | you think it'll win? |
| 21:11.38 | jerkface03 | ?? that is me then? |
| 21:11.51 | jerkface03 | probably not, it lacks alot of samples |
| 21:11.58 | jerkface03 | there's one main demo and thats it |
| 21:12.05 | f00f- | i'd improve it |
| 21:12.15 | f00f- | judges need samples |
| 21:12.36 | jerkface03 | they'll have to make due with what's there, i got too much shit coming up |
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| 21:27.23 | acsia | is selectionArgs working on sql queries? |
| 21:27.27 | acsia | I am a bit confused |
| 21:27.45 | acsia | You may include ?s in selection, which will be replaced by the values from selectionArgs, in order that they appear in the selection. The values will be bound as Strings. |
| 21:27.57 | acsia | how does that work? |
| 21:29.16 | jasta | by escaping the args and then by substitution into the selection. |
| 21:29.20 | jasta | it's just WHERE foo=bar magic. |
| 21:29.57 | acsia | I have a raw query, so would I use select * from mytable where _id='?s' |
| 21:30.01 | acsia | is this correct? |
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| 21:30.36 | acsia | without the quote it does not work btw and with I am not sure |
| 21:30.57 | chomchom | oh thats quite a good way to do it actually. |
| 21:31.34 | chomchom | I've been using functions which serve the query appended with the parameters, but thats neater |
| 21:32.03 | jasta | chomchom: this is pretty common in DB frameworks that are not braindead. |
| 21:32.14 | jasta | since it trivially prevents injection attacks |
| 21:32.17 | acsia | I have the same query in my shell and it works, if I use in my code, it returns an empty cursor |
| 21:32.26 | jasta | perl's DBI, for example, does this. |
| 21:32.38 | jasta | acsia: check adb logcat. it will show you the query that failed and it will be obvious to you why it failed |
| 21:32.42 | jasta | or it should be. just pay attention :)( |
| 21:32.44 | jasta | erm :) |
| 21:33.00 | chomchom | Thats a good point actually, I haven't been cleaning strings |
| 21:33.17 | acsia | well it does not fail, it returns an empty cursor |
| 21:33.29 | acsia | AFAIK it does not print all queries |
| 21:33.34 | chomchom | used to dbhelpers doing it for me :/ |
| 21:34.51 | chomchom | Bet you got a good confidence boost injection today jasta with the thread about predictions! Certainly a nice complement |
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| 21:36.12 | lenni_-_ | hi, how do i pass a variable from one view to the next? |
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| 21:37.18 | jasta | chomchom: Yes, actually I have been feeling very good about my submission this past week. |
| 21:37.20 | chomchom | lenni_-_: it's generally not a good idea to keep too much logic in a view |
| 21:37.26 | jasta | I think I will have a strong showing for the judges. |
| 21:37.35 | chomchom | You should have a controller do the work for you as an intermedite |
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| 21:37.49 | jasta | Hello Jason. What brings you here? :) |
| 21:38.14 | chomchom | pass the controller to the view and then call it to do something from within the vie on onclick |
| 21:38.32 | lenni_-_ | how do i pass something to a view? via an intent? |
| 21:38.47 | chomchom | An intent is passed between activities |
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| 21:39.00 | chomchom | a view is a gui concept |
| 21:39.14 | jasta | ...and Romain. I think they just got out of a meeting or something ;) |
| 21:39.22 | chomchom | so if you want to pass it between activities you putExtras in an intent |
| 21:39.42 | chomchom | and then getExtras on the other side of the activity |
| 21:40.55 | jasta | lenni_-_: what he's saying is that you should organize your logic such that you interact with a controller, which then determines what to do with UI components. this is a general design pattern, not anything particular to Android. |
| 21:41.00 | davidw | "sorry guys, we cancelled android, better luck next time" |
| 21:41.10 | chomchom | heh |
| 21:41.36 | lenni_-_ | i start my intent by myIntent = new Intent(HelloAndroid.this, ResultList.class) |
| 21:41.57 | lenni_-_ | can i just pass another argument to myIntent. |
| 21:42.08 | lenni_-_ | ? |
| 21:43.12 | chomchom | Bundle bundle = new Bundle(GO); |
| 21:43.12 | chomchom | bundle.putInt("key", value); |
| 21:43.12 | chomchom | intent.putExtras(bundle); |
| 21:50.54 | acsia | jasta: have you managed to use selectionArgs? I have the raw query with selectionArgs null and it works, as soon as i use id='?s', it fails with bailing out of select |
| 21:51.11 | jasta | yes, i ahve used it |
| 21:51.30 | acsia | on an int? |
| 21:51.32 | jasta | "id=?", new String[] { "1" }; |
| 21:53.10 | acsia | jasta: arf, my bad, I misinterpreted the plurial |
| 21:53.20 | acsia | I used ?s instead of ? |
| 21:53.51 | acsia | thx |
| 21:53.55 | jasta | don't use quotes either. |
| 21:54.13 | jasta | foo=? is what you want. the placeholder code will determine if quotes are necessary. |
| 21:54.26 | acsia | no I have it now, with quote the query did not fail because sqlite took it as a string |
| 21:54.39 | acsia | cheers |
| 22:04.57 | chomchom | Guys I have a query about the emulator. Is there a way I can easily package up location data to add it to the emulator without asking people to use the adb console? Because I have some stubbed out location cases that I would like to provide instead of the default gps mock location provider. Is there any way to do that? |
| 22:11.38 | acsia | I would be interested to know that actually |
| 22:11.50 | acsia | but I guess an adb push is not that hard... |
| 22:11.59 | davidw | I'm faking it |
| 22:12.11 | chomchom | You mean hardcoding it? |
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| 22:15.14 | davidw | yep |
| 22:15.38 | davidw | for certain kinds of apps, you have to invest a lot of effort in mocking things up so they look nice |
| 22:20.04 | chomchom | Got a white board today, it's funny how cool I think having a white board to work with is, and how uncool all my friends think it is :) |
| 22:21.57 | jasta | it's uncool |
| 22:22.35 | chomchom | It's way cool man. |
| 22:23.29 | acsia | what kind of white board? |
| 22:23.34 | Bonkers | my friend stole a full-sized black board and put it in his dorm room, he even built a custom blackboard stand |
| 22:23.35 | Bonkers | it was awesome |
| 22:23.38 | acsia | the one with paper |
| 22:23.38 | davidw | the more you smell the pens, the cooler it gets |
| 22:24.08 | acsia | the one erasable? or behold the wii one? |
| 22:24.30 | chomchom | Ha yeah totally |
| 22:24.40 | chomchom | I'm totally going to do the wii sensor thing |
| 22:25.40 | acsia | I played around with it at one point |
| 22:25.42 | acsia | it s very cool |
| 22:25.45 | chomchom | Mucho respect to that guy for recognizing that VR like potential. |
| 22:25.53 | acsia | indeed |
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| 23:09.36 | jasta | sigh, i don't think i score very high on "effective use of the android platform" from the user perspective, though i do make extensive use of the IPC and service architecture :\ |
| 23:10.46 | michaelnovakjr | effective use is not the same as over use |
| 23:11.16 | jasta | that's true :) |
| 23:11.42 | jasta | i would say i have made effective use of the platform, but only from the perspective of my software design |
| 23:12.31 | michaelnovakjr | which should be good enough, think of it this way... why would you implement stuff that doesn't enhance your app |
| 23:12.50 | michaelnovakjr | effective use implies good design and usage of resources available to you |
| 23:12.58 | michaelnovakjr | or atleast that is what it should mean |
| 23:13.41 | jasta | right but i dont know how they'll design that. |
| 23:13.44 | jasta | err, decide that* |
| 23:17.38 | chomchom | Hmm, don't know how I fair from a platform perspective. But I hope that the platform will give people access to useful applications who before may not necessarily use a computer too often. I think I fall in that category. |
| 23:20.13 | morrildl | It's enough |
| 23:20.21 | morrildl | each axis is just an axis of measurement |
| 23:20.25 | morrildl | you don't have to excel at them all |
| 23:20.47 | morrildl | The point is just to make sure we are transparent in the things we are looking for, it doesn't mean that we're looking for them all to be embodied in a single app |
| 23:23.16 | chomchom | I wonder if google will have more code days after the hand in. That would be cool. It would be nice to go to one now with a lot more experience. Never got the opportunity before. |
| 23:23.35 | michaelnovakjr | i agree chomchom |
| 23:24.38 | chomchom | It would give us a chance to mingle/drink at pub with the bloggers as well. |
| 23:25.12 | michaelnovakjr | absolutely |
| 23:25.21 | michaelnovakjr | its a good idea |
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| 23:32.17 | morrildl | chomchom: after the Challenge ends, the next big thing is Google I/O at the end of May |
| 23:32.33 | morrildl | I cannot WAIT until freakin' handsets launch |
| 23:32.44 | chomchom | yeah that will be a big hype |
| 23:33.08 | morrildl | because then we will finally get to do our job of talking to developers and stuff instead of being the official random jobbers :) |
| 23:34.11 | chomchom | heh, yes it must be quite frustrating. Hold it back morrildl, we're nearly there. Then you can run outside and shout to the skies. |
| 23:34.15 | acsia | Google I/O sounds cool |
| 23:34.25 | morrildl | chomchom: :) |
| 23:34.52 | acsia | I wish I could go |
| 23:35.00 | morrildl | after the Challenge dust settles we are immediately going to turn our attention to working on the Google I/O content |
| 23:36.00 | chomchom | shame it's in blinkin san fran blinkin cisco |
| 23:37.10 | acsia | it is a shame indeed... would cost a bit much on my savings... and not really sure how to announce it to my manager |
| 23:37.55 | acsia | hum,,, I ve been very bored recently so I took up the google android challenge and would like to go to SF for the I/O conference... |
| 23:38.31 | acsia | if I win anything, I will definitely quit my job |
| 23:38.44 | acsia | and if I don t probably as well :) |
| 23:38.50 | chomchom | dearie me acsia thats a sweeping statement |
| 23:38.51 | michaelnovakjr | haha |
| 23:39.25 | chomchom | Well hopefully it's given you some new (to be) much saught after skills |
| 23:39.44 | acsia | I am pretty sure it has |
| 23:39.58 | acsia | I was at the london android meetup and got some contacts |
| 23:40.10 | chomchom | are you in the UK acsia? |
| 23:40.15 | acsia | yep |
| 23:40.21 | chomchom | hooray! |
| 23:40.25 | chomchom | I'm in GLasgow |
| 23:40.55 | acsia | nice, so you 'work' on android when the night falls I take it |
| 23:41.07 | chomchom | quite |
| 23:41.16 | acsia | nice |
| 23:41.25 | chomchom | I really wanted there to be something like an after submission get together but suprisingly enough no one has said anything |
| 23:41.35 | chomchom | the android meeting is on the monday |
| 23:41.48 | acsia | in Glasgow? |
| 23:41.50 | chomchom | Which is not ideal when you are in scotland |
| 23:41.55 | acsia | a ok |
| 23:41.55 | chomchom | no, in london |
| 23:42.07 | acsia | yes indeed I ll probably go to the next on |
| 23:42.42 | acsia | there were not that many people last time which was a shame |
| 23:42.50 | acsia | do you know truphone? |
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| 23:42.59 | chomchom | truphone? |
| 23:43.15 | acsia | http://www.truphone.com/ |
| 23:43.18 | acsia | voip |
| 23:43.27 | chomchom | Was he there sweet |
| 23:43.29 | acsia | they were at the meeting |
| 23:43.32 | acsia | yep |
| 23:43.40 | acsia | and the guy had like 50 different phones |
| 23:43.48 | chomchom | ha! |
| 23:43.51 | acsia | and he saw the android prototype as well |
| 23:44.27 | acsia | I am quite impressed by the number of companies that are moving towards android |
| 23:45.09 | chomchom | Yes, it's no secret that analysts have recommended the mobile platform for enterprise growth. |
| 23:45.23 | acsia | now s the big question... should I go to bed and wake up early or should I grab a coffee and work a couple of more hours |
| 23:45.41 | chomchom | coffee my friend, I have an esspresso right here |
| 23:45.42 | donomo | acsia: early to bed and early to rise |
| 23:45.50 | chomchom | now you know I'm up you have to match me. |
| 23:45.55 | acsia | ha |
| 23:46.06 | chomchom | And I'll be in for 9..ish |
| 23:46.18 | acsia | olala ok, I go get some coffee |
| 23:46.28 | chomchom | Where do you work acsia? |
| 23:46.32 | donomo | the forces of evil have won this round. |
| 23:46.42 | chomchom | heh |
| 23:47.19 | acsia | anybody from HP here? |
| 23:47.35 | chomchom | far from evil, chomchom is the mighty driving force or your will power |
| 23:47.40 | acsia | just ensuring my annonimity |
| 23:47.51 | chomchom | ah right |
| 23:47.58 | acsia | as I express my wish to quit my job |
| 23:48.09 | acsia | I used to work for another company that has been taken over by HP |
| 23:48.17 | chomchom | This is a public IRC, I wouldn't mention it again myself :) |
| 23:48.25 | chomchom | ah right |
| 23:48.27 | acsia | if something like that happen, you should run |
| 23:48.55 | chomchom | I really doubt my company is going to get taken over any time soon, they are currently eating others. |
| 23:49.21 | michaelnovakjr | what company chomchom |
| 23:49.35 | chomchom | JPMorgan Chase |
| 23:49.42 | michaelnovakjr | ah yes |
| 23:49.54 | acsia | aha! well now is the time isnt it |
| 23:49.59 | morrildl | chomchom: an opportunistic feeder, in this economic client ;) |
| 23:50.00 | chomchom | or JPMorgan bear chase |
| 23:50.11 | morrildl | climate even |
| 23:50.16 | michaelnovakjr | or JPMorgan bear chase sterns |
| 23:50.25 | acsia | are you working on a android project for JPMorgan? |
| 23:50.33 | chomchom | absolutely not |
| 23:50.37 | michaelnovakjr | haha |
| 23:50.42 | acsia | I could have assumed that |
| 23:50.47 | chomchom | just to make that quite clear :) |
| 23:51.12 | acsia | you know the beauty with my current position is that I can work from home... |
| 23:51.24 | acsia | now they did not define work :) |
| 23:51.26 | chomchom | that is a great luxury |
| 23:51.29 | michaelnovakjr | yea, working from home is quite nice |
| 23:51.46 | chomchom | very productive too |
| 23:51.56 | michaelnovakjr | yea |
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| 23:52.41 | morrildl | worked from home for two years |
| 23:52.53 | chomchom | wowee |
| 23:52.55 | morrildl | I learned that it works just fine, if everyone is on board and is doing it themselves |
| 23:53.05 | morrildl | (it was a virtual company, everyone worked from home) |
| 23:53.19 | chomchom | I used to have a company, of which the office was in my home. That rocked |
| 23:53.23 | michaelnovakjr | interesting..... |
| 23:53.36 | michaelnovakjr | i was thinking of starting a second life company.... ;) |
| 23:53.49 | chomchom | Sitting on the patio in the nice garden with a laptop is a luxury on a summers day |
| 23:53.59 | michaelnovakjr | absolutely |
| 23:55.45 | chomchom | Acsia maybe we could arrange an adhoc android meeting in london sometime in a month or two on a summers day. |
| 23:57.22 | acsia | that would be very cool |
| 23:57.52 | acsia | I can sense a nice summer, last year was terrible |
| 23:59.06 | acsia | chomchom: we could look into joining forces after the challenge |
| 23:59.59 | chomchom | maybe. |