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| 01:19.51 | tmcneal | soo... anyone know how to programatically set the layout_span of a View inside a TableRow? :) |
| 01:23.25 | romainguy_ | yes |
| 01:23.31 | romainguy_ | just use the TableRow.LayoutParams |
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| 01:25.29 | tmcneal | great, thanks romain |
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| 03:20.12 | michaelnovakjr | howdy, anyone out there? |
| 03:20.28 | michaelnovakjr | its quiet for being so close to the deadline |
| 03:22.15 | jasta_ | i'm coding :) |
| 03:31.51 | jerkface03 | im gonna put in my submission tmrw |
| 03:32.10 | michaelnovakjr | i'm still working on mine |
| 03:32.43 | michaelnovakjr | i figured the channel would be buzzing with those last minute... how can i write a full program in three days |
| 03:33.01 | jerkface03 | what are you making? |
| 03:33.42 | jasta_ | michaelnovakjr: there are quite a few people doing that, it seems. |
| 03:33.59 | jerkface03 | doing what? trying to stick something together in 5 mins? |
| 03:34.02 | michaelnovakjr | i noticed this afternoon |
| 03:34.09 | michaelnovakjr | pretty much |
| 03:34.17 | jasta_ | jerkface03: yeah, several people have been in here in the last week saying "well, i guess i should get started now." |
| 03:34.23 | michaelnovakjr | haha |
| 03:34.56 | michaelnovakjr | anyone gone the full mile and has a feature full app yet? |
| 03:35.13 | jasta | Not me, though I have been trying to do so. |
| 03:35.21 | michaelnovakjr | i have a few features that won't make it in the first round |
| 03:35.25 | jerkface03 | not me either. i'm making more of a library/framework |
| 03:35.30 | jasta | I never intended to produce a half-assed prototype, because I'm not just trying to win money. |
| 03:35.32 | michaelnovakjr | i would expect that to be the norm though |
| 03:35.41 | michaelnovakjr | exactly |
| 03:36.02 | jasta | But yeah, a lot of things I wanted won't make it because there's just no time. |
| 03:36.40 | jasta | The three big things I'm trying to focus on is passive synchronization, content delivery/caching, and last.fm integration. |
| 03:36.55 | michaelnovakjr | yea, the big thing for me was working around not using SOAP |
| 03:36.58 | jasta | And I'm sort of half-assing the last two, in part because of lack of time and also because the MediaPlayer is crap. |
| 03:37.02 | michaelnovakjr | which i am glad works out well |
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| 03:37.49 | michaelnovakjr | i was reading the kSOAP stuff, and thought to myself ... why? |
| 03:37.56 | jasta | Also, I'm leaving a *LOT* of room for optimization and visual improvements. |
| 03:38.07 | michaelnovakjr | definitely |
| 03:38.08 | jasta | Not because I'm lazy, but just because I wouldn't have time to focus there and still compete. |
| 03:38.31 | michaelnovakjr | yea, i think functionality is a bit more important... the point is to have a working idea |
| 03:38.50 | michaelnovakjr | UI tune ups are to be expected, i would think |
| 03:38.57 | jasta | I am not relying on them forgiving incomplete apps though, I'm still planning to produce something quite usable and otherwise well done. |
| 03:39.09 | jasta | But that has some obvious opportunities for improvement. |
| 03:39.24 | michaelnovakjr | of course, but the primary reason for the application should be completed |
| 03:39.50 | jasta | I'm still even trying to figure out exactly how I want to do playlist management. |
| 03:40.11 | jasta | i've designed my playlist service, but I feel like I may have to go through at least one major overhaul before I get it right. |
| 03:40.34 | jasta | playlist management is so tricky. it always seems so simple, but then you are bogged down by all the complexities involved in predicting human behaviour :) |
| 03:40.51 | michaelnovakjr | totally, and making sure it is optimized |
| 03:41.08 | michaelnovakjr | i have been focusing on making the application very light weight |
| 03:41.22 | michaelnovakjr | power consumption is huge for my app |
| 03:41.36 | michaelnovakjr | my goal is to make it very very light |
| 03:41.38 | jasta | the two most deserving places for opt in my project are at the SyncML layer and in the UI displaying artist and album artwork. |
| 03:42.07 | jasta | For example, to do a "fresh" sync of my entire music collection, it took the emulator 18 minutes to download all the content. |
| 03:42.18 | jasta | And that's 18 minutes at 100% CPU usage building the database :) |
| 03:42.27 | michaelnovakjr | i can't wait to be able to debug on an actual device |
| 03:42.44 | michaelnovakjr | that is the one thing I like about the windows mobile development |
| 03:42.46 | jasta | Though there is one pretty huge optimization I'm thinking about doing. It's totally a hack, but I had thought about having the server generate a database for "first-time sync" and simply send it to the client. |
| 03:43.08 | michaelnovakjr | that would save the device from having to do the computing for that |
| 03:43.11 | jasta | So at least CPU utilization would be low. |
| 03:43.19 | michaelnovakjr | yea, which means less power |
| 03:43.25 | michaelnovakjr | less cycles |
| 03:43.29 | jasta | It would still be a 14MB download in my case, but that shouldn't take very long really. |
| 03:43.36 | michaelnovakjr | true |
| 03:43.52 | michaelnovakjr | my app is constantly checking with a server for updates |
| 03:43.59 | jasta | Fortunately, that task is the worst case for the app. One-time sync is rough, but after that, everything goes smoothly. |
| 03:44.01 | michaelnovakjr | so keeping the calls short and sweet is important |
| 03:44.12 | jasta | Even if you are downloading several albums per day, it will sync that in less than 30 seconds. |
| 03:44.19 | michaelnovakjr | nice |
| 03:45.00 | michaelnovakjr | eliminating SOAP from my equation was a big relief |
| 03:45.12 | jasta | why did you eliminate SOAP? |
| 03:45.18 | michaelnovakjr | the overhead |
| 03:45.22 | jasta | How did you replace it> |
| 03:45.31 | michaelnovakjr | i am running Axis on the webserver |
| 03:45.48 | jasta | I chose SyncML for my application protocol in large part because SyncML supports WbXML, which is enormously superior. |
| 03:45.51 | michaelnovakjr | so i can make calls via http to pull an xml doc with what i need |
| 03:46.05 | michaelnovakjr | its a rather small xml doc |
| 03:46.15 | jasta | Though I currently do not even support it. I had to write my own SyncML client library in Java, which currently only does XML. |
| 03:46.23 | jasta | But I actually plan to opt that part before the challenge deadline. |
| 03:46.39 | michaelnovakjr | yea, my focus is on xml and db optimizations |
| 03:46.41 | jasta | That's part of the reason it takes 18 minutes to sync :) |
| 03:47.11 | jasta | And, lol, I am base64 encoding album and artist artwork during the sync |
| 03:47.24 | Kraln | 18 minutes to sync? |
| 03:47.26 | jasta | So it's no wonder that part is so slow |
| 03:47.32 | michaelnovakjr | ah, i am sure that is a decent amount of the time |
| 03:47.38 | Kraln | is that because of the bigint mod being so slow? |
| 03:47.51 | jasta | I plan to migrate to WbXML and remove the Base64 encoding hack all in the same step. |
| 03:47.53 | michaelnovakjr | base64 encoding is known to be slow |
| 03:48.05 | michaelnovakjr | even on a webserver |
| 03:48.16 | michaelnovakjr | so imagine working with it in a mobile device |
| 03:48.26 | jasta | it's not like i really designed it to use base64, it was just a stupid hack because WbXML wasn't supported yet. |
| 03:48.34 | jasta | and without WbXML, i couldn't inline a binary document as I want to. |
| 03:48.41 | michaelnovakjr | my application will be running pretty much all the time so the power consumption is my biggest worry |
| 03:48.52 | jasta | i wanted to avoid having extra HTTP request overhead to download the images. They are small and should be carried with the sync data. |
| 03:48.59 | michaelnovakjr | yea |
| 03:49.12 | michaelnovakjr | be back in a few |
| 03:49.18 | jasta | i have the server optimize them down to about 3K JPG images. |
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| 03:56.06 | Kraln | why not use something like http://iharder.sourceforge.net/current/java/base64/ |
| 03:56.24 | jasta | because i don't even need to use Base64 permanently. |
| 03:56.37 | jasta | also, i am using that right now. |
| 03:57.24 | jasta | didn't you listen to what i said? :) |
| 03:59.58 | Kraln | guess not :-( |
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| 04:06.07 | michaelnovakjr | the more i program with android the more i don't mind that it is completely java |
| 04:06.28 | jasta | i never did mind. |
| 04:06.49 | michaelnovakjr | i have a very love hate relationship with java |
| 04:06.52 | jasta | i have evolved beyond language affinity :) |
| 04:07.03 | michaelnovakjr | haha |
| 04:07.23 | zhobbs | haha |
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| 04:32.01 | jasta | teehee |
| 04:32.16 | jasta | listening to Rogue Wave - California... o/~ screw california... o/~ |
| 04:32.28 | michaelnovakjr | haha |
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| 04:34.58 | muthu | T joining the party.. woohooo! http://www.helloandroid.com/node/335 |
| 04:35.25 | michaelnovakjr | there's a new episode of the google developer podcast |
| 04:35.35 | michaelnovakjr | i must say i am surprised |
| 04:35.57 | jasta | muthu: read between the lines: that may be bad news. |
| 04:36.04 | muthu | why is bad, jasta? |
| 04:36.30 | jasta | read carefully: there is a strong possibility they are saying "Oh, you mean we *can* cripple it? Great, we're in!" |
| 04:37.20 | michaelnovakjr | or... wait, we can actually touch the software on a phone.... hmmm does apple know this? |
| 04:37.37 | muthu | oh yes, that's always a possibility.. but that's what opensource gives you |
| 04:37.52 | muthu | gives everyone the freedom to do whatever |
| 04:38.13 | jasta | michaelnovakjr: what? |
| 04:38.21 | jasta | ...about the podcast, i mean |
| 04:38.39 | jasta | muthu: Generally, no, open source has never met the likes of wireless carriers. |
| 04:38.52 | michaelnovakjr | ah, the google developer podcast is new for the first time since the android episode on december 5th |
| 04:39.03 | jasta | The GPL was designed to save us from such evils, but Android is released under the Apache license so who knows. |
| 04:39.04 | muthu | jasta: wide adoption is good |
| 04:39.16 | jasta | michaelnovakjr: where? |
| 04:39.43 | muthu | jasta: from an application perspective, it must run fine |
| 04:39.58 | muthu | no vendor would cripple it so much that it becomes useless for an app to run |
| 04:40.06 | michaelnovakjr | i get it from iTunes....but the link is here ..... http://google-code-updates.blogspot.com/2007/05/introducing-google-developer-podcast.html |
| 04:40.13 | michaelnovakjr | there is a subscribe link to it there |
| 04:40.15 | jasta | Not necessarily. Also, AT&T might now be in a position to still cram all their usual shit down your throat. |
| 04:42.56 | muthu | yes, ineveitable |
| 04:43.32 | muthu | expect to see tdroid, rimdroid, nokdroid, windroid etc., :) |
| 04:43.47 | zhobbs | luckily we are all geeky enough that we can undo any damage AT&T does to android with it's preinstalled crap |
| 04:43.58 | michaelnovakjr | definitely |
| 04:44.08 | jasta | we'll see. |
| 04:44.17 | michaelnovakjr | are we going to be able to install android on current handsets out now? |
| 04:44.22 | muthu | i'll take it any day, as long as droid is the common factor. this is a BIG plus for mobile developers. |
| 04:44.25 | michaelnovakjr | like for example my HTC Touch? |
| 04:44.32 | jasta | no, of course not |
| 04:45.12 | michaelnovakjr | wishful thinking |
| 04:46.08 | muthu | HTC is coming out with android phone soon |
| 04:46.09 | muthu | i had an interesting conversation yesterday with a mobile device company |
| 04:46.21 | muthu | they said they are coming up with android phones and want to talk to me (i'm not sure if its an AF joke) |
| 04:47.01 | michaelnovakjr | i just got the touch a few weeks ago, insanely cheap price for it... sucks that you can't install the software on existing phones |
| 04:47.36 | michaelnovakjr | it bluetooth tethers the modem to my mac :).... shocking for a win mobile device |
| 04:47.56 | michaelnovakjr | win mobile is terrible with battery life though |
| 04:49.01 | muthu | battery and broadband.. that seems to be the challenge now |
| 04:49.23 | michaelnovakjr | yea... i must say the blackberry 8703 i had was amazing on battery life |
| 04:50.23 | muthu | the mobile oem's will figure it soon |
| 04:51.07 | muthu | i'm just closing my eyes, when people talk about battery and mobile broadband (in 5yrs, it would be a non issue) |
| 04:51.15 | muthu | anyone agree? |
| 04:51.31 | zhobbs | I hope so |
| 04:51.35 | michaelnovakjr | i'm sure |
| 04:51.42 | zhobbs | battery tech is getting much better every year |
| 04:51.55 | michaelnovakjr | its come quite a way so far when you think back to the phone you had 5 years ago |
| 04:52.16 | muthu | cool.. so now i can go back to my battery sucking broadband hungry mobile app development :) |
| 04:53.23 | jasta | my phone 5 years ago had superior battery life to my phone now, actually. |
| 04:53.26 | muthu | we're working on a mobile search engine - http://mobeegal.in |
| 04:53.45 | muthu | anyone have any ideas? |
| 04:54.04 | jasta | you'd call that broadband hungry? i doubt that ;) |
| 04:54.26 | muthu | jasta: give me some suggestions for a mobile search engine |
| 04:54.29 | jasta | my application will be battery sucking and broadband hungry, to the point that i expect many users will want to use my app in conjunction with a charger :) |
| 04:54.37 | jasta | muthu: Google seems to have it down just fine. |
| 04:54.37 | muthu | lol |
| 04:54.42 | muthu | nope |
| 04:54.58 | zhobbs | yeah, for some apps you are better off just using plugged in |
| 04:54.59 | muthu | google is for desktop not for mobile |
| 04:55.01 | jasta | Where does Google fail? Whatever your answer is to that question should give you a pretty good place to start. |
| 04:55.22 | zhobbs | good advice |
| 04:55.29 | muthu | jasta: google is not mobile |
| 04:55.53 | muthu | google is an internet search engine |
| 04:56.03 | muthu | not a mobile search engine |
| 04:56.10 | jasta | Well, if you can't answer that question concretely, then it's no wonder you need help finding direction. |
| 04:56.11 | dueynz | ? |
| 04:56.13 | michaelnovakjr | i cant say i actually use a search engine on my phone at the moment |
| 04:56.26 | dueynz | http://google.com/mobile |
| 04:56.26 | muthu | correct |
| 04:56.48 | muthu | dueynz: a lot of websites have mobile versions |
| 04:56.55 | jasta | So if you can't say precisely what you dislike about Google on a mobile phone, then what makes you think you can do better? |
| 04:57.15 | dueynz | you might be able to change the interface of google |
| 04:57.17 | muthu | jasta: if i know the answer, i would not be looking for help here |
| 04:57.23 | dueynz | but creating your own search db |
| 04:57.27 | dueynz | bit of a mission |
| 04:57.57 | jasta | to the point that i'd say muthu will fail in this endeavour :) |
| 04:58.02 | muthu | lol |
| 04:58.09 | jasta | no offense, but you don't even have an idea at all. |
| 04:58.22 | muthu | no offence will ever be taken, don't worry |
| 04:58.33 | dueynz | how do you fund the thousands of servers required? |
| 04:58.34 | muthu | criticism helps a lot |
| 04:58.37 | dueynz | (or millions?) |
| 04:58.37 | jasta | it reminds me of the underpants gnomes episode of South Park. Step 1, collect underpants, Step 2, ???, Step 3, profit. |
| 04:58.46 | michaelnovakjr | i thought of a search engine idea that would not track your every move |
| 04:58.55 | michaelnovakjr | its very tough to accomplish |
| 04:59.18 | muthu | michael: what's your search engine idea about? |
| 04:59.19 | dueynz | how do you expect to achieve give good results to a user without user data? |
| 04:59.35 | muthu | duey: yeah lot of questions for me too |
| 04:59.44 | muthu | duey: user data need to be collected and stored |
| 04:59.49 | dueynz | im fine with google logging it all, only becomes a problem if they start giving it away which im sure they will never do |
| 04:59.56 | michaelnovakjr | not to the extent that google does it |
| 05:00.08 | dueynz | how do you know the extent? |
| 05:00.15 | dueynz | what if they have user_id,keyword |
| 05:00.20 | dueynz | is that bad? |
| 05:00.21 | michaelnovakjr | i get an email from my uncle at marriott and then i get ads for rooms at the hotel |
| 05:00.32 | dueynz | thats ad targeting |
| 05:00.45 | muthu | google is just be beginning of the search solution phenomena.. there's more to come |
| 05:00.46 | michaelnovakjr | i understand that is the core busines |
| 05:01.14 | michaelnovakjr | but it can be scary especially when people can get there hands on your search data |
| 05:01.15 | dueynz | michaelnovakjr, they provide gmail, which is awesome and you expect them not to have advertising? |
| 05:01.23 | dueynz | how? |
| 05:01.25 | michaelnovakjr | it is expected |
| 05:01.38 | dueynz | i know you can view your search history |
| 05:01.41 | michaelnovakjr | how else do you make money off a free product like that |
| 05:01.41 | muthu | ads must be welcome |
| 05:01.42 | dueynz | but you can turn that off |
| 05:02.03 | muthu | for exchange of a great service, you must welcome ads |
| 05:02.09 | dueynz | if i was going to click on an ad (which i never do) i would be more inclined to click on something im interested in |
| 05:02.19 | muthu | everyone needs to make money afterall |
| 05:02.23 | michaelnovakjr | i dont mind ads.... but from the content of emails... |
| 05:02.30 | dueynz | so |
| 05:02.37 | dueynz | you are the only one seeing it |
| 05:02.41 | dueynz | you and a computer program |
| 05:03.00 | muthu | anything which is not in your system is public |
| 05:03.16 | dueynz | debatable |
| 05:03.27 | dueynz | i can't go get your search terms |
| 05:03.29 | muthu | people are using facebook, twitter etc., to search more than google |
| 05:03.42 | dueynz | uh? |
| 05:03.44 | michaelnovakjr | i don't think it is a big deal, i mean i use the services and find them great... its just when in the wrong hands can be a headache |
| 05:03.49 | michaelnovakjr | hackers .... and the such |
| 05:04.10 | dueynz | im sure google have more security in place than the DoD |
| 05:04.41 | muthu | yeah.. and hopefully you don't store sensitive information in email |
| 05:04.50 | michaelnovakjr | haha.... that'll make you feel a whole lot better |
| 05:04.55 | michaelnovakjr | of course |
| 05:05.11 | muthu | oh.. wait ( ** runs to delete all his sensitive emails **) |
| 05:05.15 | michaelnovakjr | haha |
| 05:05.26 | dueynz | gmail doesn't really delete them ;) |
| 05:05.27 | michaelnovakjr | uuuhhh..... pgp?? |
| 05:05.35 | muthu | oh shit |
| 05:05.45 | muthu | gmail trash it.. i mean REALLY trash it!! |
| 05:05.51 | dueynz | michaelnovakjr, what about googles many thounsands of computers? |
| 05:05.59 | dueynz | they could break your pgp in what, a year? |
| 05:06.06 | michaelnovakjr | of course |
| 05:06.19 | michaelnovakjr | hence why i don't waste my time with it |
| 05:06.38 | dueynz | i would much rather trust google with my emails than m$ |
| 05:06.48 | dueynz | they probably sell the emails to marketing companies |
| 05:06.49 | michaelnovakjr | in a heartbeat |
| 05:08.36 | muthu | check out http://mosio.com (people powered mobile search) |
| 05:08.47 | muthu | that's a mobile search engine, not google |
| 05:10.10 | muthu | you ask, people answer |
| 05:10.59 | dueynz | what if i answer with cra |
| 05:11.00 | dueynz | crap |
| 05:11.37 | muthu | ah come on.. that's already proven |
| 05:11.51 | muthu | crap doesn't work.. look at wikipedia |
| 05:12.01 | muthu | opensystems have a way to beat crap |
| 05:18.34 | dueynz | like? |
| 05:18.48 | dueynz | only way to beat crap is to have dual answering |
| 05:19.49 | muthu | yeah, many people would answer your question |
| 05:19.58 | muthu | you pick what you like |
| 05:21.26 | dueynz | http://images.google.com/imagelabeler/ |
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| 05:26.56 | rhett | hey, does anyone know how to change the focus back to the tabs in a TabHost from a datepicker using only the dpad? |
| 05:27.24 | rhett | I've been using the select callback to change focus |
| 05:27.36 | zhobbs | datepicker is in bad shape |
| 05:27.42 | rhett | but I don't see how to set the focus back to a Tab |
| 05:27.49 | rhett | what's wrong with datepicker? |
| 05:28.07 | zhobbs | it's ugly (alignment all messed up) and doesn't work with touchscreen |
| 05:28.11 | rhett | it works fine for me, it's just a little annoying that you can't easilly get out of it |
| 05:28.32 | rhett | hmm, well I modified mine quite a bit, and getting it to work with touchscreen is not so hard, except it's a little small |
| 05:29.08 | rhett | either way, from any activity that is contained in a Tab, is there a way to get back to the tabs without touching them? |
| 05:29.23 | rhett | I know jasta made a tab demo |
| 05:30.29 | jasta | i don't think so, no. |
| 05:30.42 | jasta | but that is likely to change in future releases. |
| 05:31.09 | rhett | ok, so, I should just meantion in my docs that that's a known current issue? |
| 05:31.10 | rhett | thanks jasta |
| 05:31.52 | rhett | you think the only way I have to set the focus of the tabs is to touch them? I can't hook it fromt the center dpad onkey somehow? |
| 05:32.30 | rhett | jasta, thanks for that demo by the way, it really spruced up my app |
| 05:33.27 | jasta | no problem, i dont suppose youre interested in sharing any artwork you created for it? |
| 05:33.36 | jasta | i have been struggling to come up with something that looks like i want :) |
| 05:33.43 | muthu | rhett: can't you use the dpak right key to shift focus? |
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| 05:36.32 | rhett | muthu, in a datepicker, dpad right, left, up, down moves around the date selector |
| 05:36.58 | rhett | jasta, I just used your little 3d thing, it looks great |
| 05:37.07 | muthu | rhett: i was talking about the tabs |
| 05:37.10 | rhett | sorry, my artwork will come at the last possible second |
| 05:38.18 | rhett | muthu, when the tabs are selected, I can use right and left, but when I have a datepicker selected, that is in one of the tabs, I can't jump from the datepicker back to the tabs without touching them |
| 05:38.31 | muthu | oh o |
| 05:38.34 | muthu | ok |
| 05:42.19 | jasta | rhett: looked like hell i thought. |
| 05:43.20 | muthu | jasta: i gave up on the tab customization.. went with the default look |
| 05:43.41 | jasta | the default look was very bad for my application. very bad :) |
| 05:44.19 | muthu | yeah but the design work is too much for me |
| 05:44.58 | jasta | me too i guess. i actually created a second version that looks a bit nicer than the first one i posted |
| 05:45.03 | jasta | but it doesn't look that much better :\ |
| 05:45.15 | jasta | i tried so hard to copy the iPhone :) |
| 05:45.16 | rhett | jasta, I thought your tab demo looked pretty classy |
| 05:45.17 | jasta | but i suck |
| 05:45.53 | jasta | rhett: you're crazy :) |
| 05:46.03 | jasta | but thanks i guess ;) |
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| 06:26.23 | thedaniel` | wow, onclick events aren't supported in LinearLayout |
| 06:26.30 | thedaniel` | for TextViews and whatnot |
| 06:26.44 | jasta | yes they are, TextViews just aren't clickable. |
| 06:27.05 | thedaniel` | jasta: TextViews are never clickable, or just in the context of LinearLayout? |
| 06:27.16 | jasta | set the TextView both clickable and focusable, then your onClick listener will fire. |
| 06:27.37 | thedaniel` | hrm |
| 06:27.48 | thedaniel` | I think I must not have set focusable, i know I set clickable |
| 06:27.59 | jasta | set it focusable, and it will work. i have done this before. |
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| 06:28.11 | thedaniel` | jasta: i believe you |
| 06:37.27 | davidw | 'morning |
| 06:38.33 | jasta | hola |
| 06:38.36 | jasta | but i'm going to bed :) |
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| 09:52.35 | Hai-Fai | can buttons be "dual active", like when you click it first time it sets button "enabled" and next time it's "disabled"? |
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| 11:07.47 | davidw | Hai-Fai, sounds like a bad idea |
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| 11:40.16 | Hai-Fai | well, for me, it doesn't, and would be very useful from time to time.. but I think I'll organize it some other way |
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| 11:45.04 | kennyyu | hi there, if i'm doing a research on mobible browsers, i don't know whther it's possible to get the source code for android system? |
| 11:45.37 | kennyyu | because i know that android has not released all its source so far... |
| 11:49.08 | B0jangles | you can decompile the .jar. other than that, no |
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| 12:08.03 | davidw | kennyyu, android uses webkit |
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| 15:34.35 | kennyyu | davidw: ya I know... but I aren't sure if it is possible to edit the source code for compiling on Android? That is, actually, if I just have the API of Android then I think it's already sufficient.. |
| 15:35.19 | davidw | source code hasn't been released yet |
| 15:35.48 | kennyyu | davidw: Hmm... not even the API? |
| 15:36.09 | davidw | kennyyu, the API is described in the docs |
| 15:37.30 | kennyyu | davidw: Oops.. sorry. I must have missed some point before. I thought that to build a Webkit on Android is impossible at this stage. So is it really possible? |
| 15:37.44 | davidw | no, it isn't |
| 15:38.24 | kennyyu | davidw: I see. Thanks. ;) |
| 15:38.38 | kennyyu | I'll want for the source... ;) |
| 15:38.49 | kennyyu | nice of you to have solved my puzzle |
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| 16:25.00 | jasta | yawn |
| 16:25.30 | michaelnovakjr | yawn |
| 16:25.46 | jasta | davidw: the webkit source is avaialble |
| 16:26.40 | davidw | I know, but not android's version |
| 16:26.50 | davidw | or is it? |
| 16:27.33 | jasta | It is. |
| 16:37.44 | jasta | You just lied to that guy :) |
| 16:37.51 | jasta | *tsk tsk* |
| 16:50.24 | jasta | Google Gears is really interesting. I'm excited to learn more about this at the I/O conference |
| 16:50.36 | zhobbs | how can I flip or mirror a canvas/drawable? |
| 16:50.49 | zhobbs | jasta: you going to the IO thing? |
| 16:50.53 | jasta | yeah |
| 16:51.28 | zhobbs | I would like to go....just don't want to put up the money for the airfare/hotel |
| 16:52.37 | jasta | i'm staying with my friend, and airfare from seattle is cheap. |
| 16:52.45 | zhobbs | that's cool |
| 16:53.03 | jasta | i'm mostly going just to hang out, though :) |
| 16:53.19 | jasta | i don't get to see my friend much |
| 16:53.26 | zhobbs | yeah, I've never been to san fran (or CA at all) |
| 16:53.37 | jasta | i was in CA last week hehe |
| 16:53.47 | jasta | but other than that, i've only been to San Francisco twice. |
| 16:55.39 | davidw | cool |
| 16:55.47 | davidw | jasta, when is that conference? |
| 16:55.55 | davidw | lived there for a while |
| 16:57.24 | jasta | may 28-29 i think |
| 16:58.51 | romainguy_ | zhobbs: how can I flip or mirror a canvas/drawable? << just scale by -1 on the Y axis |
| 17:03.59 | jasta | romainguy_: will you guys be involved in the ADC judging process at all? will you have access to any of the apps or anything? |
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| 17:05.24 | zhobbs | romainguy_: thanks |
| 17:07.17 | romainguy_ | jasta: I have no idea, but considering how busy we are, I don't think it'd be a good diea |
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| 17:10.50 | jasta | how busy are you? :) |
| 17:11.43 | romainguy_ | too busy |
| 17:13.34 | jasta | hehe |
| 17:14.03 | jasta | me too. full time job with the ADC pressure on top of it is rough :) |
| 17:14.48 | jasta | i actually took next Friday off work to spend the entire weekend doing last minute code review, bug fixes, etc :) |
| 17:15.12 | romainguy_ | that's dedication |
| 17:19.43 | jasta | well it's not like you guys are handing out $15 gift certificates to Red Robin. |
| 17:22.32 | jasta | though i must admit that i'm actually just excited to have this app. lately i've been getting frustrated that i can't actually use my app when i drive to work in the morning :) |
| 17:23.49 | jasta | i was listening to all this really great music that reminded me of 2 summers ago and as I was driving to work i was pondering a cool way to automatically access that playlist using Last.fm's "most recent tracks" |
| 17:27.00 | jasta | i thought about burning a cd, but the playlist was too long and i didn't have time to sit down and deal with sorting it. |
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| 18:48.09 | zhobbs | romainguy_: is there a way to do an alpha gradient effect on a canvas? |
| 18:57.56 | zhobbs | ahh, found shader and LinearGradient |
| 19:13.20 | romainguy_ | zhobbs: yes, since that's how we do the faded edgets in lists and scroll views for instance |
| 19:16.54 | f00f- | my app just uses the regular theme |
| 19:17.06 | f00f- | should i make my own theme |
| 19:17.11 | f00f- | it's mainly black and white right now |
| 19:17.14 | f00f- | not too much color |
| 19:17.25 | zhobbs | that's up to you :) |
| 19:18.47 | jasta | i am choosing to keep much of the default theme, but will likely not continue to do so for long |
| 19:18.47 | jasta | i think the default theme will not mesh well for my app. |
| 19:18.49 | michaelnovakjr | same here, but i am focused on making sure the application works great first |
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| 19:18.54 | michaelnovakjr | then i'll fine tune my UI |
| 19:19.26 | jasta | yeah, agreed. my app still has functional problems, so the UI is not a high priority yet. |
| 19:19.31 | jasta | that is, the look of it. |
| 19:20.32 | michaelnovakjr | leave something to be desired :) |
| 19:23.10 | f00f- | my app is still being written |
| 19:23.25 | f00f- | how many hours are you dedicated to last-minute prep (post freeze) ? |
| 19:23.51 | michaelnovakjr | few days |
| 19:24.06 | f00f- | hmm ok |
| 19:24.06 | zhobbs | I'm going to start coding my app this weekend |
| 19:24.16 | f00f- | you said that 2 weeks ago zhobbs |
| 19:24.19 | f00f- | slacker! |
| 19:24.45 | f00f- | well i'm hoping to freeze by sunday, and test/document until the end |
| 19:24.46 | zhobbs | I like the people posting "great ideas" in the lists a week ago |
| 19:25.21 | michaelnovakjr | haha |
| 19:26.16 | f00f- | lots of ideas |
| 19:26.25 | f00f- | some one better come up with a decent SMS app |
| 19:26.36 | f00f- | and it better chown iPhone's interface |
| 19:26.51 | f00f- | i'd say that's a 2 week project |
| 19:27.08 | f00f- | with a good chance to win |
| 19:27.15 | f00f- | maybe even add GTalk support |
| 19:27.21 | f00f- | then you're guaranteed to win |
| 19:27.27 | f00f- | a generic Messaging app |
| 19:33.39 | muthu | f00f: good idea |
| 19:34.42 | michaelnovakjr | i am starting to take that idea now and WIN!! |
| 19:34.43 | michaelnovakjr | haha |
| 19:34.56 | f00f- | ok go run with it and just give me $20 when you win KTHX |
| 19:34.57 | michaelnovakjr | its a good idea though |
| 19:35.14 | michaelnovakjr | messaging should be seamless |
| 19:35.22 | michaelnovakjr | might take longer than two weeks |
| 19:35.25 | f00f- | i mean seriously, it's such an obvious one that i hope someone does it, so we don't get stuck with some garbage messaging app |
| 19:35.53 | muthu | f00f: people miss the obvious ones |
| 19:35.59 | muthu | i'm sure no one is working on it |
| 19:36.09 | michaelnovakjr | true |
| 19:36.31 | f00f- | there is still time |
| 19:36.32 | michaelnovakjr | well, i'm sure we'll have plenty of work once the first round results are released |
| 19:36.46 | michaelnovakjr | to develop a decent messaging app might not make the deadline |
| 19:36.57 | f00f- | i'd say the GUI is the toughest |
| 19:37.03 | f00f- | backend can be done in 8 hours tops |
| 19:37.17 | michaelnovakjr | the GUI is a big part of making it seamless |
| 19:37.47 | f00f- | all you really need is the SMS message store, GTalk message store, and and archiving system. expose a couple of content providers, etc. |
| 19:40.00 | f00f- | ok so now actually one of you guys is going to do it |
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| 19:54.20 | michaelnovakjr | guess not?.... |
| 20:01.42 | Hai-Fai | guessed right I think =P |
| 20:01.50 | michaelnovakjr | haha |
| 20:01.52 | Hai-Fai | that's just a way to get others do your job |
| 20:02.12 | Hai-Fai | "I'm lazy, let others do my idea what I want for my phone some day" |
| 20:02.36 | jasta | that's a pretty common attitude in the open source community, actually. |
| 20:02.43 | Hai-Fai | yep |
| 20:02.52 | jasta | lots of folks assume there is an army of developers just waiting to do their bidding :) |
| 20:02.59 | Hai-Fai | ha |
| 20:03.15 | Hai-Fai | there is plenty of coders out there, but they just don't have big ideas =) |
| 20:03.31 | michaelnovakjr | or the brains for a big idea |
| 20:03.39 | zhobbs | yeah, I feel bad adding feature requests to OSS projects |
| 20:03.47 | Hai-Fai | well, most of them just don't get any ideas, even if they had those "big" brains |
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| 20:04.29 | michaelnovakjr | i try and do as much as i can.... not enough hours in the day |
| 20:04.37 | Hai-Fai | same here.. |
| 20:04.56 | Hai-Fai | and somewhat of lazyness tries to get in to my body although.. |
| 20:05.33 | michaelnovakjr | when i finish my current project i certainly will pick up another |
| 20:06.11 | Hai-Fai | I think this current project is enough to get to second round, so I'll just wait for one month and start doing some "detailing" to it |
| 20:09.33 | Hai-Fai | 11 days and counting.. yikes.. |
| 20:09.59 | michaelnovakjr | its approaching very fast |
| 20:11.20 | Hai-Fai | yep, been doing last few weeks about 12hour days if nothing else to do.. |
| 20:11.30 | Hai-Fai | from monday to monday =) |
| 20:12.03 | michaelnovakjr | i am putting in all the time that i can |
| 20:13.14 | Hai-Fai | yep, success in that project, and no need to worry about advertising |
| 20:13.34 | jasta | 12 hour days? you must not work. |
| 20:13.51 | jasta | i have been steadily doing about 2 hours per day on avg since late Dec. |
| 20:14.16 | jasta | but now I've ramped that up to about 4 per day on week nights and probably 8 for the next 2 weekends. |
| 20:14.19 | jasta | i have lots left to do :) |
| 20:14.28 | jasta | Hai-Fai: what is your project? |
| 20:14.33 | Hai-Fai | android =P |
| 20:14.39 | jasta | but what specifically? |
| 20:15.14 | Hai-Fai | hah, just kiddin'.. well it's kinda secret, but it has something to do with maps and something else classified =) |
| 20:15.14 | jasta | At this point is there really any reason protecting the idea? Surely no one would be able to implement it in the next 11 days? |
| 20:15.46 | Hai-Fai | well, I know for sure, there is ppl out there who could do almost anything in those 11 days, so it stays as a secret to the last day, and even further =) |
| 20:16.05 | jasta | That doesn't make much sense to me. |
| 20:16.45 | michaelnovakjr | i am developing a top secret advertising program.... it displays ads based on your sms messages and emails |
| 20:17.16 | Hai-Fai | well nonetheless I'm not going to tell, no matter what, it's kinda new idea in that area anyways, so it stays as a secret, we'll see what it leads to |
| 20:17.19 | jasta | Why would anyone want to install that? |
| 20:17.33 | Hai-Fai | I think that's just a teaser.. |
| 20:17.36 | michaelnovakjr | haha, i was only kidding |
| 20:17.43 | jasta | Hai-Fai: My idea is quite new, to my knowledge only one company has even attempted it before, and their implementation is bad. |
| 20:18.09 | Hai-Fai | yep, my idea isn't my idea, it's a team program |
| 20:18.18 | Hai-Fai | well, 30% or so of it is mine |
| 20:18.19 | jasta | And it's not even novel in the area of mobile software, it just doesn't exist anywhere. |
| 20:19.19 | jasta | The real challenge with my app is whether it's even practical. It is pressing the edge of a lot of current limitations :) |
| 20:19.53 | muthu | almost went to sleep |
| 20:20.05 | Hai-Fai | there is few ideas left on mobile industry which doesn't exist yet, and this adc just got one of those ideas.. after this competition is over, we are starting one bigger project which will lead to big markets if this first program goes to (semi)finals |
| 20:20.08 | muthu | Hai-fai is pulling me into the discussion |
| 20:20.42 | muthu | hai-fai what do you mean? ideas doesn't exist yet? |
| 20:20.45 | jasta | Hai-Fai: why does it matter if your program wins the ADC? Will that affect its marketability? |
| 20:21.16 | muthu | hai-fai have you looked at myloki.com |
| 20:21.26 | Hai-Fai | doesn't have to win, it counts only if you get to top 50, then your name is on everyone's coffeetable discussions, might be anyways, but I count on that |
| 20:21.56 | jasta | Hai-Fai: So you're hoping to use the ADC solely for publicity? That is absurd. |
| 20:21.57 | Hai-Fai | haven't, should I? |
| 20:22.08 | muthu | yeah let me know your feedback |
| 20:22.17 | muthu | also look at rummble.com |
| 20:22.26 | muthu | and if you have time, elimatta.com |
| 20:22.36 | muthu | one more.. mosio.com |
| 20:23.39 | Hai-Fai | well, I just hope adc will be a big start for new corporations in that area, 'cause there isn't "any" yet, and if they succeed in adc, that's easy way to start building up company |
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| 20:24.16 | michaelnovakjr | when you think about it only the hardcore guys know remotely anything about android |
| 20:24.26 | michaelnovakjr | so i doubt you'll get a call from 60 minutes |
| 20:24.36 | muthu | lol |
| 20:24.41 | Hai-Fai | I've no use for "60 minutes" things |
| 20:25.21 | muthu | good night folks |
| 20:25.27 | Hai-Fai | nn |
| 20:26.50 | Hai-Fai | and, anyways most relevant things in that sdk is still out of usage as far as I've been discovering it, dunno if it's because lack of time, or are they keeping somethings on their own, so they may release the "best software".. |
| 20:27.04 | Hai-Fai | or maybe not most relevant, but some of them.. |
| 20:28.32 | Hai-Fai | enough of whiskey and beer for this evening [1 + 1], so time for bed.. nn folks |
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| 22:14.14 | jasta | yawn |
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| 23:42.37 | zhobbs | morrildl: will the judges have music to test media players? |
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