| 00:01.56 | kurzum | hmm im wondering, is there a way to set the cursor position to be after the text in an EditText? |
| 00:03.47 | davidw | aapt package seems to fail if there is an android:icon that doesn't actually have a file |
| 00:09.27 | davidw | it fails silently though |
| 00:10.35 | jasta | engineered* |
| 00:11.04 | duey | haxor |
| 00:11.10 | duey | i thought someone has already done it |
| 00:11.15 | jasta | have they? |
| 00:11.18 | jerkface03 | binary xml -- an oxymoron |
| 00:11.23 | duey | yeah |
| 00:11.31 | duey | someone pasted the site here yesterday |
| 00:11.31 | jasta | duey: Where? |
| 00:11.36 | jasta | That wasn't reverse engineered |
| 00:11.37 | davidw | I just opted for the hack and generate fake ones then extract them |
| 00:12.08 | duey | ohok |
| 00:12.11 | jerkface03 | jasta: what exactly is the point of you reverse engineering opensource software? |
| 00:12.28 | jasta | jerkface03: Because it isn't open source? |
| 00:12.30 | davidw | it's not open source as of right now? |
| 00:12.51 | davidw | it will be - but it's not, yet. |
| 00:13.11 | jasta | It isn't open source, and it won't be open source by teh time the first round of the ADC has ended. |
| 00:13.20 | jasta | So, there is a very important reason to reverse engineer it ;) |
| 00:13.46 | jasta | plus, so far it has only taken me an hour and a half to figure out the string table and header stuff |
| 00:14.34 | duey | why dont you just decompile the source |
| 00:14.41 | duey | oh i guess its devoracked |
| 00:14.42 | jasta | duey: Because the XML parser is written in C. |
| 00:14.53 | duey | right |
| 00:15.00 | jasta | So decompiling the XML parser would be a nightmarish trek through ASM. |
| 00:15.10 | duey | i thought it would be java |
| 00:15.11 | jasta | Much more work than just guessing at it. |
| 00:15.20 | davidw | C++ it looks like, actually |
| 00:15.22 | jasta | duey: I thought so too, until I saw that it is C. |
| 00:15.30 | davidw | although I'm not positive |
| 00:15.35 | duey | right |
| 00:15.41 | jasta | C++? I sort of doubt that, but I haven't looked. |
| 00:15.48 | duey | why not |
| 00:15.51 | duey | c++ > c!!! :D |
| 00:16.03 | jasta | C++ > C evaluates to false in both C and C++. |
| 00:16.04 | jasta | ;) |
| 00:16.18 | duey | hahaha |
| 00:16.20 | davidw | links to libstdc++ |
| 00:16.38 | jasta | davidw: That might not mean that it is all in C. |
| 00:16.44 | davidw | the givaway though: has lots of symbols like this: _ZTVN7android18BufferedTextOutputE |
| 00:16.53 | jasta | Oh yeah, that's obvious ;) |
| 00:17.49 | duey | better than haskell |
| 00:17.58 | jasta | the only things that tripped me up reverse engineering the binary format was that the offsets in the string table aren't sorted in the file |
| 00:19.13 | davidw | duey, I don't think anyone actually *uses* that;-) |
| 00:20.06 | jasta | so you get like a list of offsets like 0x12 0xfe 0xdc 0x4c... |
| 00:20.22 | romainguy_ | jasta: why do you bother? the tool that does it at runtime is not good enough? |
| 00:20.25 | jasta | and then, there are entries in the string table for a blank space and a NUL character. |
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| 00:21.35 | kurzum | is there a way to have text spans with different colors in a a TextView? |
| 00:21.39 | jasta | romainguy_: yeah, it would, although then i'd have to adapt it to try to figure out how to extract a list of installed system packages, and then a list of that packages resources (drawables, layout), ... |
| 00:22.14 | jasta | i'd much rather just write a tool that takes in a binary xml file and spits out a text one. that way i could extra the android image and plow through it :) |
| 00:22.17 | davidw | damn |
| 00:22.31 | jasta | s/that/those/ |
| 00:22.37 | romainguy_ | jasta: you really like to go against licenses don't you? :) |
| 00:23.07 | jasta | no, not normally |
| 00:24.05 | davidw | romainguy, something that's cool, new, interesting, and will eventually be open source is *completely* "hacker" (in the good sense) bait |
| 00:24.11 | jasta | frankly, I think Google has violated license ;) |
| 00:24.19 | davidw | it says "look at me! see if you can figure out how I work!" |
| 00:24.24 | jasta | for example, Google has violated freetype's license, though not freetype's copyright. |
| 00:24.55 | romainguy_ | you wouuld have to ask David Turner |
| 00:25.00 | romainguy_ | he works on Android after all :) |
| 00:25.17 | jasta | that's what i meant. |
| 00:25.25 | jasta | you don't violate his copyright, because he has given it to you. :) |
| 00:25.40 | jasta | but you do violate his license, since you've not complied with his BSD license :) |
| 00:25.50 | romainguy_ | how so? |
| 00:26.42 | jasta | Well I suppose not since Google does acknowledge it ;) |
| 00:27.34 | jasta | Damn ;) |
| 00:27.49 | jasta | I actually thought that Google wasn't acknowledging freetype for some reason, but here I find it on the what is page. |
| 00:28.18 | davidw | I think Google has enough OS people and lawyers to not screw up very easily |
| 00:28.25 | davidw | sleep time for me...later |
| 00:28.44 | jasta | But anyway, davidw is right. Hacker bait :) |
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| 00:29.19 | jasta | But what does it matter with Android's source to be disclosed at some point? |
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| 01:47.29 | zhobbs | hmmm, was that image update related to this article? http://blogs.zdnet.com/security/?p=921 |
| 01:47.48 | zhobbs | says that there are remote vulnerabilities with android's image handling |
| 01:49.01 | zhobbs | oh yeah, says it right in google's announcement |
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| 02:40.23 | zhobbs | Hmmm....the TimePickerDialog doesn't work with touchscreen? |
| 02:41.22 | romainguy_ | yes there's a bug |
| 02:41.46 | zhobbs | hmm... |
| 02:42.10 | zhobbs | just wonder if the judges apreciate that you're using a standard widget that will eventually work? |
| 02:42.24 | zhobbs | prolly not |
| 02:42.28 | romainguy_ | don't worry about that |
| 02:43.02 | zhobbs | ? |
| 02:43.21 | romainguy_ | your app will not be penalized because of a known bug in our framework |
| 02:43.47 | zhobbs | ok |
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| 03:28.38 | zhobbs | why does Math.floor() return a double? |
| 03:29.05 | duey | because double numbers can be larger than ints |
| 03:29.25 | zhobbs | can a double be larger than a long? |
| 03:32.44 | zhobbs | long and double are both 64 bits...don't remember how floating point stuff works though |
| 03:34.02 | duey | i think they might be the same |
| 03:34.17 | duey | cant remember |
| 03:41.41 | jasta | a double has a wider integral range than a long. |
| 03:41.56 | jasta | much wider, actually |
| 03:43.12 | jasta | by virtue of the way that doubles are stored as specified by IEEE 754 |
| 03:43.24 | jasta | bbl, heading home |
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| 03:55.36 | duey | yeah but if you floor it |
| 03:56.54 | zhobbs | romainguy: when using android:visibility="invisible" with a view it's visible for a split second when the activity first starts up...is that normal? |
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| 04:27.21 | zhobbs | when using android:visibility="invisible" with a view it's visible for a split second when the activity first starts up...is that normal? |
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| 05:17.28 | thedaniel` | hey, what do you guys think is the most appropriate widget for a list that scrolls horizontally/ i've been looking through th docs and I think I just can't hit on the right phrase to search for |
| 05:17.57 | thedaniel` | i just want something with one row and many columns that will spill out of the side of the screen and can be scrolled left and right to reveal more items |
| 05:18.18 | romainguy___ | thedaniel`: no standard widget supports horizontal scrolling |
| 05:18.47 | thedaniel` | romainguy___: in other words, i'm out of luck? or does your use of 'standard' as a modifier imply i could roll my own or otherwise dig deep? |
| 05:18.59 | zhobbs | thedaniel`: you could def make your own |
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| 05:19.01 | romainguy___ | you can implement your own fairly easily |
| 05:19.09 | romainguy___ | ScrollView for instance is not that complicated |
| 05:19.15 | romainguy___ | View contains pretty much everything you need |
| 05:19.57 | thedaniel` | romainguy___: thanks, i'll have a go at it |
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| 05:44.10 | thedaniel` | romainguy___: i'm a little new to this, so forgive me if this is obvious, but do you think i should extend ScrollView and add things like computeHorizontalScrollRange and extend pageScroll to support left and right, or should i extend ScrollView's superclass, FrameLayout, and build it up from there? |
| 05:52.00 | chaosvoyager | Hmm, good question. I don't know about romainguy (or romainguy_, or romainguy__ :P), but as a rule of thumb, I try to extend from as close to the top of an object hierarchy as possible. |
| 05:52.44 | chaosvoyager | Tends to lead to a more adaptable set of classes, and a shallower hierarchy. |
| 05:53.32 | romainguy | thedaniel`: if you want to support vertical and horizontal scroll, you might as well extend scrollview |
| 05:53.36 | romainguy | otherwise go with framelayout |
| 06:00.36 | jasta | i'd caution against a horizontal scrolling design, as an aside. |
| 06:00.56 | romainguy___ | jasta: why do you think there's no horizontal scrolling widget in Android? :) |
| 06:01.03 | jasta | hehe |
| 06:01.08 | romainguy___ | but eh, if you want to do it, you can |
| 06:01.21 | muthu | gallery kind of scroll might be more appropriate |
| 06:01.43 | thedaniel` | jasta: that's a good point |
| 06:02.15 | thedaniel` | jasta: i ran into my friend that's been wireframing the app at a bar today and he was all about a horizontal scroll pane, so i told him i'd look into it |
| 06:02.16 | jasta | i didn't tell you not to do it, just think carefully about whether you need to. |
| 06:02.36 | muthu | daniel: what are you trying to scroll horizontal? |
| 06:02.38 | thedaniel` | jasta: so maybe tomorrow, when he's not drinking, he'll reconsider |
| 06:02.43 | zhobbs | romainguy___: to create a custom dialog look do I just create a nine patch background and set that as the background? I guess I can't use the dialog theme if I do that right? |
| 06:02.54 | thedaniel` | muthu: something like a row of tabs |
| 06:03.05 | thedaniel` | muthu: to drill down into multidimensional data |
| 06:03.19 | jasta | i'd caution against that program entirely :) |
| 06:03.24 | muthu | hmmm... tabs |
| 06:03.31 | romainguy___ | zhobbs: I don't see why you couldn't use a theme? |
| 06:03.40 | romainguy___ | but yes, you can just style it |
| 06:03.46 | romainguy___ | er, just set the background |
| 06:04.19 | romainguy___ | it's funny... when I was working on Swing people wanted one thing: their apps to look like the system; now on Android, everybody just want to not look like the system |
| 06:04.23 | muthu | setting the background manually mess ups the default scheme |
| 06:04.23 | romainguy___ | you guys are weird :p |
| 06:04.33 | romainguy___ | muthu: how so? |
| 06:04.38 | zhobbs | romainguy___: so I can use the dialog theme and just override the background? |
| 06:04.42 | muthu | like selection |
| 06:04.53 | romainguy___ | muthu: selection? in a dialog? |
| 06:05.00 | muthu | in general |
| 06:05.04 | romainguy___ | Oo |
| 06:05.07 | romainguy___ | what are you talking about? |
| 06:05.20 | muthu | in a list |
| 06:05.27 | romainguy___ | zhobbs: that should work yes |
| 06:05.40 | romainguy___ | muthu: if you change the background of the list? |
| 06:05.51 | muthu | set alternating colors for rows |
| 06:06.15 | romainguy___ | muthu: there's an API to do striping |
| 06:06.26 | muthu | yeah.. i saw it in the notepad example |
| 06:07.11 | muthu | may be themes is the preferred way.. to style your components |
| 06:07.41 | muthu | romainguy: why the zoomslider cannot be horizontal? |
| 06:08.07 | romainguy___ | because it was designed to be vertical |
| 06:08.25 | muthu | ah.. such a short sightedness :( |
| 06:08.29 | romainguy___ | .. |
| 06:09.01 | romainguy___ | the framework cannot, unfortunately, offer all of the possible widgets and/or features that everybody needs :) |
| 06:09.14 | muthu | comeon.. this is orientation |
| 06:09.28 | muthu | every widget seems to support this, except zoomslider |
| 06:09.44 | romainguy___ | feel free to file a bug |
| 06:09.48 | jasta | hehe |
| 06:09.51 | chaosvoyager | romainguy: GUI 'consistency' on the platform is highly overrated, but WOW do people like to bitch about it. Like whitespace in Pythin. |
| 06:09.51 | muthu | sure |
| 06:09.52 | jasta | and he'll feel free to ignore it |
| 06:10.02 | romainguy___ | chaosvoyager: I totally agree |
| 06:10.14 | romainguy___ | chaosvoyager: it's even funnier when you see how different "native" apps actually are |
| 06:10.31 | romainguy___ | jasta: ZoomSlider's not my area :) |
| 06:10.54 | zhobbs | chaosvoyager: I bitch about whitespace in python a lot :) |
| 06:11.20 | zhobbs | if gui consistancy is important to the judges I'm in trouble |
| 06:11.47 | chaosvoyager | Personally, I believe applications should look as different as possible. That way you can recognize them when they're zoomed out. |
| 06:11.59 | romainguy___ | zhobbs: stop worrying about that kind of stuff |
| 06:12.17 | zhobbs | romainguy___: the judges? |
| 06:12.24 | romainguy___ | yes |
| 06:12.30 | romainguy___ | just make an app that rocks :) |
| 06:12.41 | muthu | romainguy is the chief judge :) |
| 06:12.46 | thedaniel` | zhobbs: yeah, are you entering an app competition or a prediction judge psychology competition |
| 06:12.52 | thedaniel` | *predicting |
| 06:12.53 | muthu | he has a list of winners already ;) |
| 06:12.53 | zhobbs | hehe |
| 06:13.28 | chaosvoyager | Um, it's ALWAYS a prediction judge psychology competition. |
| 06:14.34 | chaosvoyager | Hmm, why the heck is there a specific zoomslider to begin with? |
| 06:14.38 | jasta | my only hope is that the judges don't pick crud that doesn't catch on. that would be very disappointing. |
| 06:14.58 | jasta | i doubt that will happen though. |
| 06:15.03 | zhobbs | 50 location based social networking apps :) |
| 06:15.12 | jasta | zhobbs: lol, yeah ;) |
| 06:15.52 | jasta | i wish my friend wasn't barred from competition. he did some really cool location-based projects at intel as far back as 5 years ago. |
| 06:16.46 | jasta | but they couldn't launch because it was a major hack to get at the radio data back then. it only worked on 2 phones in the market at the time. |
| 06:17.09 | jasta | it still is, actually. i'm still mystified how Google has access it with "My Location BETA" |
| 06:17.15 | jasta | accessed* |
| 06:17.53 | jasta | they don't support that many handsets, so perhaps they have just expanded upon the same old hack Intel did years ago |
| 06:18.40 | chaosvoyager | I hate to say, but location based social networking apps are about the only thing I've found Android to be any good at. |
| 06:18.53 | chaosvoyager | BTW, who runs Hello Android again? |
| 06:18.57 | zhobbs | me |
| 06:19.22 | jasta | chaosvoyager: That's not fair. Android is certainly good at making headlines ;) |
| 06:19.47 | romainguy___ | hey I can read you p |
| 06:19.48 | romainguy___ | :p |
| 06:19.48 | chaosvoyager | Your PhoneFinder should win. Simple and useful. It should be a standard feature oon every cellphone. |
| 06:20.18 | zhobbs | :) just don't let your girlfriend know your password |
| 06:20.22 | jasta | My attraction to Android is largely motivated by its open source promise, corporate sponsorship, and what i would call a well-designed software stack and API. |
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| 06:20.51 | jasta | zhobbs: Speaking of... |
| 06:21.06 | zhobbs | I just happened to having nothing to do when the announcement was made...so I made Hello Android |
| 06:21.07 | jasta | I have a project I wanted to start working on after Android handsets are out in the wild and things have settled a bit... |
| 06:21.16 | jasta | But I can't even tell my girlfriend *THAT* I'm working on it :) |
| 06:21.19 | jasta | let alone give her the password :) |
| 06:21.33 | chaosvoyager | *shudder* well...designed... |
| 06:21.33 | zhobbs | haha, sounds interesting |
| 06:21.50 | jasta | I had this idea a while ago to write an app that lets you place certain contacts in your phone in "stealth mode", so any phone calls, text messages, call logs, etc would not even show up under normal usage of the phone. |
| 06:22.01 | jasta | An incoming call would be immediately ignored so that you wouldn't even know the call came in |
| 06:22.01 | zhobbs | ahhh...nice |
| 06:22.04 | jasta | things like that |
| 06:22.21 | jasta | and then have a special gesture on the home screen that would open an activity showing you a sort of 'private dashboard' |
| 06:22.22 | zhobbs | good idea...would just log the call to your secret log |
| 06:22.33 | jasta | so you could put all your ex-girlfriends in the list |
| 06:22.40 | jasta | and occassionally, if you're up to no good, pull up the dashboard :) |
| 06:22.48 | jasta | then lock it back down again |
| 06:23.10 | jasta | it is so sketchy, and my girlfriend would think the worst if she knew i was writing it |
| 06:23.23 | chaosvoyager | But what if your ex keeps calling from different phones? |
| 06:23.24 | zhobbs | yeah, that's a hard sell |
| 06:23.38 | jasta | but the reality is, i have at least 2 people i need to put in there who go years without calling me then randomly i get a drunk dial |
| 06:23.43 | jasta | and i don't recognize the number so i answer |
| 06:24.09 | chaosvoyager | That's one way to do it. |
| 06:24.31 | jasta | and occassionally i don't mind the humor, so i actually talk |
| 06:24.36 | zhobbs | "Security Holes in Google's Android SDK" is the newest story on /. |
| 06:24.37 | jasta | but then i quickly delete the call log and everything |
| 06:24.53 | zhobbs | talking about the already patched security hole |
| 06:25.07 | chaosvoyager | There's actually some guy who created a drunk dialing prevention application, but it needs to be installed on the drunk end to work. |
| 06:25.10 | jasta | zhobbs: that's just because google probably got wind of the vulnerability from the same source :) |
| 06:25.34 | jasta | zhobbs: anyway, i may actually implement that app when phones are available. |
| 06:25.41 | jasta | it's one of those programs you NEED to test with real phones :) |
| 06:25.51 | jasta | because it really can't have any "bugs" in it. that would be catastrophic :) |
| 06:26.27 | chaosvoyager | The first application I had in mind for Android was a voice recognition app that blocked calls from specific callers, no matter where they came from. |
| 06:26.38 | chaosvoyager | But Android can't do that. |
| 06:26.51 | jasta | why? |
| 06:27.04 | romainguy___ | because you cannot intercept the call's audio |
| 06:27.12 | chaosvoyager | No way to access the audio streams. |
| 06:27.24 | jasta | btw, let's all hope that android isn't locked down to hell by the manufacturers. |
| 06:27.40 | jasta | if it remains open and hackable, the project could be easily extended to do anything Google did not intend. |
| 06:27.51 | jasta | or even that Google wanted to actively prevent, such as this. |
| 06:27.58 | romainguy___ | chaosvoyager: I will speak for myself here, but I'm kinda glad to know that apps cannot grab the audio :) |
| 06:28.08 | zhobbs | I'm interesting in how the permissions is going to work, I assume lots of permissions dialogs when running apps |
| 06:28.09 | romainguy___ | that said I have no idea why it is so |
| 06:28.13 | romainguy___ | and what the plans are for this feature |
| 06:28.18 | zhobbs | interested* |
| 06:28.40 | jasta | romainguy___: I'm pretty sure there is a legal issue here. Something about recording someone's voice without their consent. |
| 06:28.55 | jasta | That's why everytime you call tech support or customer service they tell you that the call is logged. It's the law. |
| 06:29.16 | zhobbs | jasta: yeah, think it depends on the state in the US |
| 06:29.44 | zhobbs | some states only require 1 party to know about audio recording |
| 06:29.44 | jasta | but still, if the platform is hackable, who cares what Google left out ;) |
| 06:29.56 | chaosvoyager | romainguy: It's that old Security vs. Safety issue. |
| 06:30.07 | zhobbs | yeah, we're just waiting for the source so we can fork the crap out of it |
| 06:30.55 | jasta | zhobbs: Amen brother. |
| 06:31.12 | chaosvoyager | Didn't even need to hack some phones, they dialed me themselves accidentally when the user had an itch or something. Locking phones should be mandatory :) |
| 06:31.50 | zhobbs | that's why I've always bought flip phones |
| 06:32.40 | chaosvoyager | :) |
| 06:32.52 | jasta | 400 lines of perl later, i have reverse engineered the binary XML format |
| 06:32.56 | jasta | ;) |
| 06:32.57 | chaosvoyager | I prefer flip phones. |
| 06:33.04 | romainguy___ | jasta: isn't it just WbXML? |
| 06:33.06 | zhobbs | you the man jasta |
| 06:33.10 | jasta | romainguy___: no, it's not. |
| 06:33.13 | romainguy___ | ok |
| 06:33.36 | jasta | zhobbs: i'll post my results when i get home. i just got the very first successful test run, so we'll see how it does when i mow it over all of the xml files in the system image :) |
| 06:33.50 | zhobbs | great, lemme know |
| 06:34.00 | jasta | romainguy___: In fact, it seems to be quite, quite different. |
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| 06:34.14 | jasta | There is a bunch of extra information I ignored because it seems not relevant to the output XML. |
| 06:34.47 | jasta | Also I get some free assumptions because of its usage in Android. |
| 06:35.02 | jasta | like that the only namespace is android |
| 06:35.03 | chaosvoyager | I want a flip phone with an iPod like scroll wheel. |
| 06:35.29 | romainguy___ | jasta: that's not true in Home for instance :)) |
| 06:35.48 | jasta | damnit, really? well, Home will be my first target then |
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| 06:35.52 | romainguy___ | hehe |
| 06:36.00 | jasta | i should be able to undo that assumption easily. i only didn't understand how a "list" of namespaces formed given the format. |
| 06:36.00 | romainguy___ | yeah Home contains a custom layout class |
| 06:36.03 | jasta | because it seemed quite static |
| 06:36.08 | romainguy___ | and this class adds its own XML attributes |
| 06:36.12 | romainguy___ | with a different namespace |
| 06:36.48 | jasta | it doesn't seem to be even approximately WbXML. if it was supposed to be like WbXML, it is VERY badly formed :) |
| 06:37.41 | jasta | and there's redundancy everywhere, i doubt that would have made it into WbXML since it is trying to be space-efficient. |
| 06:38.32 | jasta | for example, the size of the binary XML file is in the file itself. also, the string table is indexed very strangely, such that the size is repeated twice *AND* every string is NUL terminated. |
| 06:38.56 | jasta | although the NUL termination was almost certainly done for parser efficiency, as the parser was written in C/C++ afterall :) |
| 06:39.04 | zhobbs | how do I go about creating an activity that has a receiver so that for a certain intent broadcast it will launch the activity? |
| 06:39.28 | muthu | jasta: was it not some sort of a db? |
| 06:39.57 | jasta | muthu: no. |
| 06:40.04 | jasta | at least, it didn't look to be. |
| 06:40.26 | jasta | there is a large bit of header info that i ignored, which could be some sort of index. |
| 06:40.39 | jasta | also, each tag seems to have 2 extra fields that look to maybe be indices as well. |
| 06:40.44 | muthu | it says DBase 3 data file ?? |
| 06:40.52 | jasta | muthu: file is just confused by the magic in the file. |
| 06:40.57 | muthu | ok |
| 06:41.08 | jasta | file uses a very crude scheme to look at the file, usually based on reading just some small header data. |
| 06:41.20 | jasta | it sometimes happens that two file formats look similar in their headers |
| 06:41.31 | muthu | right |
| 06:41.33 | jasta | it's definitely not a dbase file :) |
| 06:41.43 | muthu | yeah who uses dbase?? |
| 06:41.55 | chaosvoyager | I was told that the format was specifically chosen for performance reasons. |
| 06:42.08 | jasta | chaosvoyager: I'm certain that it was, which is why there's so much information I can happily ignore :) |
| 06:43.50 | muthu | od -c is hard to read |
| 06:45.08 | muthu | i can read some permissions that way |
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| 06:46.45 | chaosvoyager | The activities and services in an application are alive for the lifetime of the application, right? |
| 06:47.10 | zhobbs | not guarenteed |
| 06:48.01 | chaosvoyager | Even in the same app, where they have access to the same application object, and can share globals? |
| 06:48.04 | jasta | not even likely, depending on how you mean "alive". |
| 06:50.32 | zhobbs | chaosvoyager: if you hit "home" and get side tracked running other apps and stuff it will kill your app for it's resources |
| 06:50.41 | zhobbs | and it's your job to recover nicely |
| 06:51.56 | chaosvoyager | Yes, but it will kill all the processes in that app together. I can count on the processes being alive as long as the app is alive, right? |
| 06:52.21 | chaosvoyager | The processes in that app. |
| 06:59.42 | jasta | alright, heading home |
| 06:59.45 | jasta | for real this time |
| 07:01.43 | chaosvoyager | night then. |
| 07:01.57 | zhobbs | so the 9-patch images get "compiled" so that in the jar they don't have the 1 pixel border right? |
| 07:04.40 | romainguy___ | thedaniel`: use jython |
| 07:04.52 | chaosvoyager | Funny you should mention that :D |
| 07:05.11 | romainguy___ | Why? |
| 07:05.50 | chaosvoyager | No, the Python mention, not Jython. |
| 07:06.01 | romainguy___ | Still, why? : |
| 07:06.03 | romainguy___ | :) |
| 07:06.49 | thedaniel` | romainguy___: will that work, even with the different VM? |
| 07:07.14 | romainguy___ | thedaniel`: I haven't tried so I cannot answer that question :) |
| 07:07.30 | romainguy___ | I would, however, say that I wouldn't expect the apps to run fast :p |
| 07:07.51 | thedaniel` | romainguy___: well then, i'll wait a year for some 800mhz xscale android phones and then go jython crazy ;) |
| 07:07.58 | romainguy___ | uhuh |
| 07:08.29 | romainguy___ | now, if Jython comes with a compiler, that's a different story |
| 07:09.04 | thedaniel` | romainguy___: yeah |
| 07:09.09 | thedaniel` | jythonc generates Java |
| 07:09.14 | thedaniel` | and then you can send that through javac |
| 07:09.15 | romainguy___ | that's what I thought |
| 07:09.33 | romainguy___ | I used Jython a lot in one of my Java apps but that was 8 years ago :) |
| 07:12.26 | chaosvoyager | Well, <_< I'm working on a Stackless Python + OpenKODE based mobile platform, partly inspired by my frustration with Android. |
| 07:12.54 | chaosvoyager | Mostly inspired though, with all the OTHER mobile platforms. |
| 07:13.09 | chaosvoyager | frustration with that is. |
| 07:13.15 | chaosvoyager | Except the iPhone. |
| 07:13.42 | thedaniel` | chaosvoyager: well, you'll get your SDK roadmap on thursday |
| 07:13.51 | thedaniel` | and then you can fire up XCode and be happy. |
| 07:13.55 | chaosvoyager | ;_; |
| 07:14.05 | chaosvoyager | Now all I need is a Mac... |
| 07:14.09 | thedaniel` | And then you can even maybe run your apps if apple will let you |
| 07:14.21 | thedaniel` | chaosvoyager: last week i saw refurb mac minis for like 479 |
| 07:14.37 | thedaniel` | chaosvoyager: if you really want one you could probably save some pennies and get one |
| 07:14.42 | chaosvoyager | Euwww, Mac Mini. |
| 07:14.58 | chaosvoyager | I'm honestly not sure it's a good dev platform. |
| 07:15.40 | chaosvoyager | I'll probably bite the bullet and get a MacBook, even though they don't have the latest nVidia HW. |
| 07:16.02 | romainguy___ | which doesn't matter that much if you don't do games :) |
| 07:16.27 | chaosvoyager | 0_0 |
| 07:16.39 | thedaniel` | chaosvoyager: macbook is fine but the keyboard blows |
| 07:16.49 | chaosvoyager | Yeah, that too -_- |
| 07:17.13 | thedaniel` | chaosvoyager: work computers i've used this year: macbook, macbook pro, thinkpad x series |
| 07:17.21 | thedaniel` | after the last 2 i don't think i can ever go back to the macbook |
| 07:17.21 | romainguy___ | I actually really like the MacBook's keyboard |
| 07:17.28 | romainguy___ | not as good as the MacBook Pro's though |
| 07:17.34 | chaosvoyager | Umm...Thinkpad..... |
| 07:17.36 | thedaniel` | romainguy___: some people really get into the light tough and short throw |
| 07:17.46 | chaosvoyager | er, I meant MacBook Pro. |
| 07:17.46 | thedaniel` | chaosvoyager: yeah, you know, the best laptops ever ;) |
| 07:17.53 | thedaniel` | *light touch |
| 07:18.09 | thedaniel` | romainguy___: i must hit the keys too ahrd or something tho, they made the backs of my hands hurt |
| 07:18.42 | romainguy___ | thedaniel`: The thing is I never used a desktop machine before I started at Google |
| 07:18.42 | romainguy___ | so after 15 years of laptop keyboards, I'm immune :)) |
| 07:18.44 | thedaniel` | romainguy___: nice |
| 07:19.02 | thedaniel` | romainguy___: i still use laptops for my main machines but i stay off the default kbs as much as possible |
| 07:19.20 | thedaniel` | i have a msft natural at work and a happy hacking for my linux machine at home, very happy with both |
| 07:19.57 | chaosvoyager | romainguy: GPUs can be treated as a general DSPs. They're downright critical to running audio, video, and pattern recognition at a useful speeds. |
| 07:20.38 | romainguy___ | chaosvoyager: I know and I have a MacBook Pro because I wanted a good GPU for all the graphics works I do |
| 07:20.47 | chaosvoyager | :) |
| 07:20.51 | romainguy___ | but for that kind of work, MacBook is still pretty good |
| 07:21.09 | chaosvoyager | Now if I could find a TABLET with discrete graphics. |
| 07:21.15 | romainguy___ | but I'm thinking of finally moving to a desktop |
| 07:21.24 | duey | i prefer desktop |
| 07:21.29 | duey | i have a macbook |
| 07:21.32 | duey | but i hardly ever use it |
| 07:21.33 | chaosvoyager | I prefer big screens. |
| 07:21.38 | romainguy___ | my MacBook Pros are struggling with my 30" monitor and Photoshop/Lightroom |
| 07:21.38 | duey | ^^ |
| 07:21.44 | duey | i bet |
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| 07:21.56 | duey | id get a macpro |
| 07:21.59 | duey | but no deskspace left |
| 07:22.37 | chaosvoyager | I'm waiting until the Geforce 9 series is supported. |
| 07:22.43 | duey | lol |
| 07:22.54 | duey | is the geforce 8 supported yet? |
| 07:23.21 | thedaniel` | i'd get a macpro but i need to pay my rent and eat |
| 07:23.21 | thedaniel` | ;) |
| 07:25.21 | duey | http://it.slashdot.org/it/08/03/05/0457214.shtml lolsigh |
| 07:25.27 | chaosvoyager | Well, the great Werner Herzog stole a camera from his film school because he believed he had an artistic right to it. And Peter Jackson had to actually break into the studio he was using to finish a film he said was already complete. |
| 07:25.33 | duey | what a stupid article |
| 07:26.16 | chaosvoyager | And I have ALL sorts of stories about Steve Jobs :) |
| 07:27.24 | duey | yeah most involving lsd right? |
| 07:27.25 | romainguy___ | jasta: you there? |
| 07:27.28 | thedaniel` | chaosvoyager: there's the classic tale of the Graphing Calculator team letting themselves into apple after layoffs to finish their products |
| 07:27.47 | chaosvoyager | Hehe... |
| 07:28.01 | chaosvoyager | Where the hell is that kind of passion today? |
| 07:28.12 | duey | i have that passion |
| 07:28.17 | chaosvoyager | :) |
| 07:28.33 | duey | unfortinately i wish it would leave for a year so i can finish uni :) |
| 07:30.18 | chaosvoyager | Heh. I just read a series of articles on 'why not to become a scientist'. Academia sounds horrible as a career choice. |
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| 07:31.22 | zhobbs | I have a friend working on his Chemistry PhD, he loves it though |
| 07:31.59 | chaosvoyager | I'm sure it's the chemistry and not the pay or politics he loves however. |
| 07:32.04 | duey | uni is a drag |
| 07:32.21 | duey | academic process is the oppisite of real world |
| 07:32.25 | zhobbs | yeah, I never liked school |
| 07:32.28 | duey | its all perfect scenario |
| 07:32.35 | duey | the world is a perfect circle stuff |
| 07:33.49 | chaosvoyager | Programmers should actually study more chemistry for the way molecules communiucate without explicit synchronization and yet create consistent results. |
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| 07:34.12 | jasta | finally home |
| 07:35.41 | jasta | duey: i disagree, i have a great deal of respect for what universities are trying to do. |
| 07:35.55 | chaosvoyager | What frustrates me is that professional IT is a lot like academic IT, only without the rigorous discipline. |
| 07:36.01 | duey | i don't |
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| 07:36.55 | duey | bubble wrap if you ask me |
| 07:36.56 | jasta | duey: the idea is to create more precise thinking, so as to harden your ideas from contemporary limits. |
| 07:37.31 | jasta | and that is very useful, but yes not well aligned with the "real world" as you called it. but to be fair, your definition of the "real world" is certain to be constantly in motion. |
| 07:38.16 | chaosvoyager | But that's exactly the opposite of what universities seem to do, especially in computer science. |
| 07:38.27 | jasta | chaosvoyager: perhaps it is, but it is not the opposite of what they're trying to do :) |
| 07:38.27 | jasta | maybe it's you who missed the point? :) |
| 07:38.44 | chaosvoyager | Hmm, |
| 07:38.48 | zhobbs | university is what you make of it...I didn't make enough of it, some people do |
| 07:39.07 | jasta | to be fair, i should confess that i have never attended a university. |
| 07:39.27 | duey | right |
| 07:39.40 | jasta | but i have certainly been a part of the collegiate circle. |
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| 07:40.03 | chaosvoyager | Well, I can say for certain what their intents are, but they could certainly pay their professors more :) |
| 07:40.20 | jasta | i am certain their professors make plenty :) |
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| 07:40.35 | duey | yeah most profressors have outside interests |
| 07:40.45 | duey | professors* |
| 07:41.02 | chaosvoyager | Well, http://philip.greenspun.com/careers/women-in-science |
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| 07:44.20 | davidw | hehe, my wife has a PhD, but I didn't get a degree at all |
| 07:46.05 | jasta | my girlfriend is pursuing hers ;) |
| 07:47.08 | chaosvoyager | I was just frustrated with the whole system. I couldn't explore concepts in any way I found useful. People would ask me if I was studying to become a chemist or a programmer, and I'd answer "Both!". |
| 07:48.29 | chaosvoyager | Computers and music was another 'cross discipline' (I HATE that term) subject I persued. |
| 07:48.43 | chaosvoyager | er, 'were'. |
| 07:49.43 | zhobbs | I just hated manditory homework assignments...that's for high school not college |
| 07:49.53 | jerkface03 | a chemist programmer? that's just crazy. |
| 07:50.09 | jerkface03 | that's like being a dogwalking accountant |
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| 07:50.27 | chaosvoyager | :P |
| 07:50.32 | jerkface03 | dogwalker even |
| 07:50.55 | chaosvoyager | Well, at the very least, you need to know both if you want to write chemical simulation software. |
| 07:51.21 | chaosvoyager | And that usually requires quite a bit of quantum physics too. |
| 07:51.40 | davidw | damn, it's really snowing now |
| 07:53.02 | chaosvoyager | Many medical applications are written by doctors, not programmers, and their design often suffers for it. |
| 07:53.42 | chaosvoyager | And they usually use VB. |
| 07:54.57 | zhobbs | chaosvoyager: so do you write chem simulations? |
| 07:55.23 | chaosvoyager | Use to. |
| 07:55.47 | chaosvoyager | I mostly apply what I learned in chemistry to computing. |
| 07:55.55 | duey | i was consideirng going that route |
| 07:55.59 | duey | gone ai instead |
| 07:56.26 | chaosvoyager | Turns out its a little difficult to do with the way CPUs are currently designed. |
| 07:57.26 | muthu | davidw: matt raible will be happy |
| 07:57.46 | davidw | who's that? |
| 07:57.57 | muthu | he is a java blogger |
| 07:58.01 | davidw | hah, this slashdot article: |
| 07:58.03 | chaosvoyager | OH, here's another one that sucks. A perfect use of dual processing would be to seperate the applications on one CPU, and the JIT/GC on the other. But modern implementations make this all but impossible to do. |
| 07:58.12 | davidw | "Google's Android software development kit is using several outdated and vulnerable open-source image processing libraries, some of which can be exploited to take complete control of mobile devices running the Android platform |
| 07:58.33 | duey | davidw, yeah |
| 07:58.39 | davidw | gee, I guess I'll have to get my devices updated.... |
| 07:58.39 | duey | its stupid |
| 07:59.16 | zhobbs | I karma whored a link to the android-developers blog in the comments |
| 08:00.36 | chaosvoyager | (* looks at /. *) So truly fucking useless. |
| 08:00.38 | duey | aw |
| 08:00.43 | duey | did another sdk get released |
| 08:00.45 | duey | stab |
| 08:01.01 | muthu | r15 is the latest |
| 08:01.18 | chaosvoyager | Hmm, '/.' is used as the 'lambda' symbol in some forms of LISP. |
| 08:02.15 | romainguy__ | duey: m5-r15 was released yesterday |
| 08:03.44 | chaosvoyager | Heh, never realized how much it sounds like a real 'droid' designation :) |
| 08:04.18 | jasta | yeah, or milestone and release. |
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| 08:12.12 | jasta | gah, the string table is aligned ;) |
| 08:12.16 | jasta | didn't realize that before |
| 08:17.49 | romainguy__ | jasta: pv |
| 08:18.03 | jasta | i'm not getting any? |
| 08:18.08 | romainguy__ | weird |
| 08:18.10 | romainguy__ | send me one? |
| 08:18.12 | jasta | are you registered? |
| 08:18.30 | romainguy__ | yes I think so |
| 08:18.37 | jasta | i just messaged you |
| 08:18.39 | romainguy__ | or maybe not on this computer |
| 08:18.42 | romainguy__ | hmm I replied |
| 08:18.43 | romainguy__ | prff |
| 08:18.46 | jasta | didn't get it :) |
| 08:19.01 | romainguy__ | hwo do you register again? |
| 08:19.05 | romainguy__ | stupid freenode |
| 08:19.14 | jasta | i dunno, i have it automated. /msg nickserv help register maybe? |
| 08:19.22 | zhobbs | romainguy__: you probably registered "romainguy" |
| 08:19.56 | romainguy__ | ok done |
| 08:22.46 | davidw | slashdot at least seems to have the dubious merit of having hit bottom and bounced back a bit, and is not actively on a downward trajectory |
| 08:24.41 | jasta | slashdot's just like the mainstream media. you can't detect the obvious errors and omissions unless the post is regarding something you know a lot about, then it sounds like total gibberish. |
| 08:25.11 | jasta | i still read it, though, just like i still read the news :) |
| 08:26.31 | zhobbs | it's still more "valuable" than digg or reddit most of the time |
| 08:26.37 | chaosvoyager | The thing I find interesting is how slashdot uses its readers to moderate. |
| 08:27.15 | zhobbs | digg and reddit are good to glance over rss feeds, but slashdot is actually worth going to a lot of days |
| 08:30.31 | chaosvoyager | Anyone familiar with Erlang? |
| 08:32.22 | davidw | chaosvoyager, a bit, why? |
| 08:32.29 | davidw | there's an #erlang that's pretty good... |
| 08:32.54 | davidw | reddit started out pretty good and then took a nose dive |
| 08:33.10 | davidw | wisdom of crowds indeed... more like the ignorance of mobs |
| 08:33.40 | chaosvoyager | Just asking. I think it's useful to know for things like Android. Not necessarily to program in, but the philosophy behind it. |
| 08:34.10 | davidw | chaosvoyager, ah, it's a cool language, definitely give it a look |
| 08:34.20 | davidw | I don't know how much it really relates to android though |
| 08:34.45 | davidw | to do concurrency like erlang, you pretty much have to set the whole system up that way, all the way down |
| 08:35.25 | chaosvoyager | Has a lot to say about safe asynchronous processes communicating reliably. |
| 08:35.42 | chaosvoyager | ..though. |
| 08:36.50 | chaosvoyager | Heh, filtering group stupidity is THE problem in internet indexing today. |
| 08:37.30 | chaosvoyager | The entity that solves that problem (if it can be solved sufficiently in the first place) is the next Google. |
| 08:43.46 | muthu | may be its not indexing at all |
| 08:43.52 | muthu | its something else |
| 08:44.45 | muthu | chaos: i understand what you are saying though |
| 08:45.08 | muthu | next Google is always an interesting and challenging thought :) |
| 08:46.30 | f00f- | how can i execute multiple SQL statements at once... separated by ; ? |
| 08:46.52 | f00f- | i thought it was possible with execSQL but i see it's not |
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| 08:58.59 | jasta | romainguy: i thought about what you said and realized that most of this data i don't understand is probably not data at all. might just be the result of writing a packed structure. *tsk tsk* :) |
| 08:59.30 | chaosvoyager | Junk DNA :P |
| 08:59.58 | jasta | romainguy: i'm noticing that what i thought was a sentinel before might not actually be. |
| 09:00.06 | jasta | just seems that way entirely by accident |
| 09:02.40 | romainguy | because you don't understand it doesn't mean it's useless :p |
| 09:03.13 | jasta | romainguy: No, I think that it is actually junk being put here by a packed C or C++ struct. |
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| 09:04.17 | jasta | specifically because it's not predictably set. the same flags can be found on a row and sometimes the field i thought was a sentinel will be ~0, or 0, or something entirely different. |
| 09:04.26 | jasta | recently i've noticed it can be feff ffff |
| 09:05.24 | chaosvoyager | Damnit, I have to select a OS license (but which one) >_< |
| 09:05.32 | chaosvoyager | I hate the political shit. |
| 09:05.41 | jasta | this makes sense now seeing that so much of this data format depends on alignment. |
| 09:06.16 | jasta | chaosvoyager: you could choose to waive all copyright, if you want. |
| 09:06.16 | romainguy | jasta: "So most things are padded to integer boundaries" |
| 09:07.18 | jasta | right, that's what i meant. the more i think about what you said the more i realize that this could just be a dirty memcpy trick that puts a bunch of irrelevant crud into the file |
| 09:07.51 | f00f- | chaosvoyager: http://sam.zoy.org/wtfpl/ |
| 09:10.24 | davidw | license war! |
| 09:10.41 | jasta | ohh actually, i think i have figured out how to use the flags to determine the length of each record |
| 09:10.44 | jasta | hooray |
| 09:10.44 | davidw | chaosvoyager, depends on your goals |
| 09:11.28 | chaosvoyager | sadly that's not an option on Google code (though fits my style rater well). |
| 09:11.58 | chaosvoyager | it also lacks a warranty clause :p |
| 09:12.39 | chaosvoyager | My goal is fast adoption. |
| 09:13.14 | romainguy | chaosvoyager: BSD ? |
| 09:14.01 | chaosvoyager | If you think that will lead to the fastest rate of adoption, then yes. |
| 09:14.17 | davidw | yeah, bsd or apache means companies will use it as well |
| 09:14.17 | romainguy | it's also the closest to the WTFPL :) |
| 09:14.30 | romainguy | davidw: yes, that's why I'm quite fond of BSD |
| 09:14.44 | davidw | depends on what kind of code it is too |
| 09:14.52 | jasta | that is why i'm fond of the GPL :) |
| 09:14.52 | f00f- | choose Apache license |
| 09:14.55 | f00f- | makes it usable by all |
| 09:14.57 | chaosvoyager | I thought MIT was. |
| 09:14.57 | davidw | more or less self contained apps can be GPL and companies will still use them |
| 09:15.17 | romainguy | jasta: I dislike GPL very much |
| 09:15.17 | chaosvoyager | the link clause. |
| 09:15.18 | davidw | libraries that are GPL will be avoided by companies |
| 09:15.31 | romainguy | jasta: mostly because I got screwed by it on my own project a few years ago :)) |
| 09:15.41 | romainguy | davidw: so true... even LGPL ones :( |
| 09:15.41 | jasta | romainguy: how can your own project screw you? |
| 09:15.46 | f00f- | companies will avoid stuff labeled 'public domain' and prefer Apache-style licenses even |
| 09:16.14 | romainguy | jasta: get contributions under GPL, contributors refuse license change or exemption and you lose a lot of flexibility :)) |
| 09:16.27 | romainguy | jasta: which is exactly what GPL is made for |
| 09:16.33 | davidw | OTOH, with BSD stuff, there is always something of a risk that one company could hire up most of the developers and esentially take new development private |
| 09:16.34 | romainguy | it's just not what I want |
| 09:16.58 | davidw | which is what happened with a lot of BSD stuff under Sun 20 something years ago |
| 09:17.10 | davidw | it's probably less likely today, but it depends on the project |
| 09:17.16 | romainguy | I guess |
| 09:17.40 | romainguy | I just release my stuff under BSD :) |
| 09:17.40 | davidw | the way to keep that from happening is to get a good, diverse community |
| 09:18.02 | chaosvoyager | The only thing I like about the GPL is that it can keep a platform consistent. There's no forking just to make things incompatible. |
| 09:18.22 | romainguy | chaosvoyager: and it's great in the regard |
| 09:18.24 | jasta | romainguy: I'm not following I guess. If contributors don't like your license choice, how is that the GPL's fault? I mean, if they don't want you switching away from the GPL, how is that idfferent than you never having chose it? |
| 09:18.31 | romainguy | chaosvoyager: that's also why Sun chose GPL for the JDK |
| 09:18.38 | chaosvoyager | But you're better off doing that through trademarks like Sun did with Java. |
| 09:19.29 | romainguy | jasta: in this case it was to switch to LGPL to let companies use the stuff more easily, as per numerous requests |
| 09:19.55 | jasta | and so your contributors protested? |
| 09:20.03 | romainguy | jasta: no, I just asked and they refused |
| 09:20.12 | jasta | who did you attribute copyright to? |
| 09:20.12 | romainguy | which is fine and understandable |
| 09:20.32 | romainguy | copyright was per contributor basis |
| 09:20.40 | romainguy | anyway |
| 09:20.47 | jasta | the copyright holder always has the right to change the licensing terms, without anyone's consent. |
| 09:21.06 | jasta | of course it does not cover previous works. |
| 09:21.40 | romainguy | and if you have copyrighted GPL bits from other contributors, you quickly get a mess :) |
| 09:21.56 | davidw | sounds like they were kind of lame to not go along with you if it was your project |
| 09:21.59 | jasta | But I guess my real point is that if the contributors refused to switch to LGPL, what do you think would have been the case if it was LGPL from the start? Maybe those contributors would have never even been there for you? :) |
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| 09:22.21 | davidw | heh, that's part of the calculation as well... |
| 09:22.33 | jasta | And so you rproject would have lost value in other ways. |
| 09:22.34 | romainguy | jasta: Maybe, maybe not. There's no way to know. |
| 09:22.38 | davidw | some people get paranoid that they're doing free work for a commercial shop |
| 09:22.47 | jasta | The real bottom line is that the GPL does not prevent business application, it merely forces them to Do The Right Thing. |
| 09:23.07 | romainguy | jasta: depends on what Do The Right Thing is |
| 09:23.22 | jasta | The GPL is a guarantee that the project will remain in the author's original spirit. And that is especially important to me. |
| 09:23.57 | romainguy | jasta: and to me I find it a restriction; I feel that if I decide to release my code, it should be available and usable no matter (basically) what you want to do |
| 09:24.10 | chaosvoyager | Ok...how the hell do I find my Google Code projects?!?! |
| 09:24.12 | romainguy | and I'm perfectly fine with companies using the code, working on it and not contributing back |
| 09:24.18 | jasta | I have personally had to defend my works from scummy malware spreading companies; I am glad to have the GPL to help me. |
| 09:24.31 | romainguy | and that's why I like the BSD |
| 09:24.44 | davidw | chaosvoyager, perhaps you could...uh...Google them?:-) |
| 09:24.52 | chaosvoyager | Peanut butter////Chocolate! |
| 09:24.57 | chaosvoyager | I DID! |
| 09:25.01 | chaosvoyager | NOTHING! |
| 09:25.18 | davidw | wow... maybe you should try ask.com or something;-) |
| 09:25.28 | chaosvoyager | rather...I DID google them, and got NOTHING. |
| 09:25.32 | davidw | or yahoo, for old time's sakes before it gets bought and |
| 09:25.34 | davidw | dismembered |
| 09:26.29 | davidw | jasta, in some cases, people in commercial settings want to use an open source library. There's no way that they can open source their whole app, but if they're smart, they'll contribute back to the one lib, because it's not really something that is a differentiator for their business |
| 09:26.49 | davidw | but if it's GPL, they can't use it, and there is no possibility of getting anything back |
| 09:27.05 | jasta | the GPL is not as poisonous as you believe. |
| 09:27.13 | romainguy | no it's not |
| 09:27.21 | romainguy | but scary enough to scare companies away |
| 09:27.27 | davidw | if it's a library as in my example, it is |
| 09:27.29 | romainguy | unfortunately so |
| 09:27.31 | chaosvoyager | But the FUD is enough, yes. |
| 09:27.39 | davidw | if it's a standalone app, then of course it isn't |
| 09:27.42 | chaosvoyager | Wow, found it. |
| 09:28.02 | chaosvoyager | That's just bizzare. |
| 09:28.38 | davidw | (Debian and Apache) |
| 09:28.47 | romainguy | ^^ |
| 09:28.58 | romainguy | I'm happy Google chose Apache 2.0 for Android :) |
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| 09:52.30 | jasta | yay, my XML parser finally satisfies all the XML files I have personally created :) |
| 09:52.46 | jasta | tomorrow I will write a script to use it on all of Google's :) |
| 09:53.36 | chaosvoyager | Heh |
| 09:53.45 | zhobbs | nice |
| 09:54.08 | jasta | there is so much in that format i have just ignored hehe |
| 09:54.35 | zhobbs | doesn't matter as long as output is complete |
| 09:54.41 | jasta | i'm certain my parser is broken though. i need to further scrutinize what the tag flags mean so that i know how many bytes to read from the file. |
| 09:55.14 | jasta | right now i just scan until i hit this ffff ffff block, but i am starting to see that this block is not really a sentinel at all :) |
| 09:55.31 | jasta | but the length of each element is not constant. it varies based on the flags somehow. |
| 09:55.34 | jasta | but there are a lot of flags ;) |
| 09:56.17 | jasta | anyway, i will finish this tomorrow and post my results. |
| 09:56.36 | chaosvoyager | You know what's going to happen, don't you? You'll finish your app right when Google releases the specification. |
| 09:57.02 | jasta | i'm betting that google never really releases a specification, they will probably just dump the source code to the parser and writer. |
| 09:57.16 | jasta | but that would still invalidate my code ;) |
| 09:57.26 | zhobbs | and that's months away I bet |
| 09:57.29 | jasta | to be honest, i just did it because i was looking for a little break from Java ;) |
| 09:57.48 | jasta | and i got sick of hearing myself say "the format has got to be so easy to reverse." |
| 09:57.56 | davidw | hehe |
| 09:58.03 | chaosvoyager | There should be another category of open source called lazy source -_-. |
| 09:58.07 | jasta | it was more difficult than i expected, though. lots of voodoo :P |
| 09:58.58 | jasta | d'oh, all the strings are in UTF-16. i'd better convert it to UTF-6 for printing. |
| 09:59.02 | chaosvoyager | You should try embedded programmimg. That's ALL black magic. |
| 09:59.26 | jasta | UTF-8, i mean |
| 09:59.28 | jasta | of course |
| 09:59.55 | davidw | jeez...this poor bird outside is getting covered with snow |
| 10:00.14 | jasta | i love the snow, i wish it would snow here more often |
| 10:00.39 | davidw | it's pretty ridiculous - it hasn't snowed this much the whole winter |
| 10:00.57 | davidw | I went for a bike ride on Monday and it was warmer than 15C |
| 10:01.13 | jasta | http://www.flickr.com/photos/devjasta/sets/72157603498623623/ |
| 10:01.41 | jasta | snow camping is so much fun :) |
| 10:02.32 | zhobbs | and it was barely snowing |
| 10:02.34 | romainguy | snow snow... hmmm |
| 10:02.41 | romainguy | damn California |
| 10:02.50 | davidw | I've decided I don't mind it... it's the gray that I can't stand |
| 10:02.51 | jasta | romainguy: i'm headed to Tahoe at the end of this month. |
| 10:02.56 | romainguy | nice |
| 10:03.09 | romainguy | I really need to bring my ski gear back from France |
| 10:03.16 | romainguy | I didn't go skiing this year @!# |
| 10:03.26 | jasta | i've been up 12 times this season |
| 10:03.31 | jasta | and i'm looking forward to great spring skiing ;) |
| 10:04.00 | chaosvoyager | I need to go skiing before global warming makes it impossible. |
| 10:06.13 | chaosvoyager | I haven't been able to make a snowman here on Long Island for two years. |
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| 10:09.46 | acsia | Global warming makes the artic an attractive holiday resort |
| 10:10.16 | chaosvoyager | Yeah, what's left of it. |
| 10:10.37 | mikelo | let's skiing in greenland |
| 10:10.47 | mikelo | let's *go |
| 10:11.17 | chaosvoyager | Google should sponser a trip :) |
| 10:11.35 | acsia | or invest in desert skiing |
| 10:11.48 | mikelo | definitely |
| 10:11.49 | davidw | ...yes, let's all burn up massive amounts of carbon to go elsewhere for skiiing.... |
| 10:12.02 | acsia | I second that |
| 10:12.05 | chaosvoyager | Well, water skiing at least. |
| 10:12.06 | mikelo | programmers are far more productive after an extended holiday |
| 10:12.26 | chaosvoyager | Are they? |
| 10:13.26 | mikelo | sure |
| 10:14.13 | acsia | I thought they were more productive with 16 hours of work, fast food, coke, coffee, low pay and the beleif that they are doing something useful |
| 10:14.45 | acsia | I am suppose to go on holiday tonight and don t want to |
| 10:14.51 | acsia | haha damn you android! |
| 10:15.12 | chaosvoyager | OK, now I need to name my project, but should I use just [name], or [name]-xseed-us so it's consistent with the way I've named all my other projects on Google code? |
| 10:15.15 | romainguy | I wish I could go on holiday tonight :) |
| 10:16.10 | davidw | chaosvoyager, how about 'Bob' ? |
| 10:16.16 | acsia | consistency I recommend and Paris I will go to |
| 10:16.32 | zhobbs | I'll be gone all next week, guess that's why I'm working this late... |
| 10:16.32 | acsia | yea Bob is good, I changed my mind |
| 10:17.27 | jasta | holy crap, it's past 2am |
| 10:17.49 | acsia | have anyone used the sharedUserId? |
| 10:17.52 | zhobbs | which means it's past 5 here ... |
| 10:17.55 | chaosvoyager | I'd love to but 'Bob' appears to be.....(*search returns*)..damnit, it's available -_- |
| 10:18.09 | mikelo | 11 am here and the sun is out :) |
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| 10:18.27 | acsia | 10 here and no sun in sight |
| 10:18.28 | jasta | night folks, it's definitely my bed time |
| 10:18.35 | zhobbs | cya jasta |
| 10:18.45 | chaosvoyager | nt |
| 10:18.50 | acsia | sweet droid dreams |
| 10:19.04 | mikelo | may the droid be with you |
| 10:19.23 | chaosvoyager | Funny, I don't remember owning a Droid.... |
| 10:19.31 | thedaniel` | gn |
| 10:19.55 | zhobbs | Androids Dream of Electric Sheep |
| 10:20.08 | chaosvoyager | Do they? |
| 10:20.16 | zhobbs | good question |
| 10:21.21 | zhobbs | haven't read the book, so don't know |
| 10:21.30 | davidw | I guess you can figure it out when you get the source code |
| 10:22.29 | chaosvoyager | So, the Source controls my actions, but it also obeys my commands..... |
| 10:22.38 | mikelo | it's all in the source code |
| 10:24.11 | acsia | does anybody know how the shareUserID works? willl it set the group permission of the application to the same group as the sharedUserId? |
| 10:26.22 | chaosvoyager | I have no idea. |
| 10:27.16 | davidw | oh this is odd... |
| 10:27.19 | mikelo | never even heard of this stuff |
| 10:28.31 | davidw | fiddling with the apk makes me lose the reference to the icon....ARGH |
| 10:28.52 | chaosvoyager | (*pat pat*) |
| 10:31.14 | chaosvoyager | OK, it is lat....early. I better get going. |
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| 10:33.09 | mikelo | cya all gotta go work a bit |
| 10:33.59 | acsia | bye |
| 10:36.17 | davidw | so... is there a way to do an update on a zip file and have the new entry added in the same slot it was before? |
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| 11:35.56 | davidw | anyone have an example of the extended version of this? "@[+][package:]type:name" |
| 11:51.24 | acsia | is there no more default LocationProvider? |
| 11:51.30 | acsia | gps that is? |
| 11:52.01 | plusminus_ | LocationProvider provider = this.myLocationManager.getProvider("gps"); // ??? |
| 11:52.18 | acsia | yes |
| 11:52.22 | acsia | does it work? |
| 11:52.35 | acsia | LocationManager lm =(LocationManager) this.getSystemService(Context.LOCATION_SERVICE); |
| 11:52.35 | acsia | Log.i("MyLog", lm.getProviders().toString()); |
| 11:52.43 | acsia | returns an empty array |
| 11:53.24 | plusminus_ | yes it works |
| 11:54.21 | plusminus_ | latest sdk |
| 11:54.39 | acsia | yes I have the latest sdk... |
| 11:54.43 | acsia | strange... |
| 11:55.57 | acsia | do you use android.permission.ACCESS_LOCATION? |
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| 12:07.34 | davidw | or better ... does anyone know where in the docs the different bits of "@[+][package:]type:name" are explained? |
| 12:09.49 | acsia | I must say I am confused as well about the notation |
| 12:11.01 | muthu | <PROTECTED> |
| 12:11.47 | muthu | it should be in the resources section |
| 12:12.54 | muthu | or may be the theme |
| 12:13.53 | acsia | ok bug in documentation, android.Manifest.permission.ACCESS_LOCATION should be android.permission.ACCESS_LOCATION |
| 12:14.00 | acsia | ... |
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| 12:55.57 | plusminus_ | ascia: no its probably no documentation bug |
| 12:56.09 | plusminus_ | the constant is named "android.Manifest.permission.ACCESS_LOCATION" |
| 12:56.21 | plusminus_ | but "the value behind" is: "android.permission.ACCESS_LOCATION" |
| 12:56.32 | plusminus_ | but yes, its confusing ;) |
| 13:00.04 | muthu | <PROTECTED> |
| 13:00.10 | muthu | any tried above? |
| 13:00.31 | muthu | setting a tab content to an intent, instead of a view |
| 13:00.59 | plusminus_ | nope just done with resID |
| 13:01.30 | muthu | yeah that works |
| 13:01.44 | muthu | tried to clean up code |
| 13:01.59 | muthu | but throwing NPE |
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| 13:02.18 | muthu | my idea is to have a separate activity per tab |
| 13:02.39 | plusminus_ | dunno, sorry |
| 13:03.27 | muthu | ok.. i'm going back to the hacky but working code |
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| 13:27.52 | plusminus_ | JUnit works no more since m5-rc15 :( |
| 13:27.54 | plusminus_ | Error occurred during initialization of VM |
| 13:28.00 | plusminus_ | java/lang/NoClassDefFoundError: java/lang/ref/FinalReference |
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| 13:55.24 | jtoy | hi |
| 14:06.42 | muthu | good evening |
| 14:14.11 | acsia | I try to get my UID with android.os.Process.myPid() but it gives me a null pointer... Any ideas? |
| 14:16.34 | muthu | can you get the process from the context? |
| 14:17.58 | acsia | how would you do so? |
| 14:18.16 | acsia | I am trying to get the User ID of the running application |
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| 14:23.02 | muthu | may be only your process available with a context..not sure |
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| 14:45.23 | muthu | http://code.google.com/p/apps-for-android/ |
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| 15:14.37 | Lede | hello |
| 15:16.11 | davidw | hey |
| 15:16.20 | davidw | YES! I got it...it worked |
| 15:16.25 | davidw | this icon stuff is psychotic |
| 15:19.04 | notjohn | anyone trying to port android to the iphone? |
| 15:22.20 | Lede | davidw: what did you do? :-O |
| 15:22.47 | davidw | notjohn, sounds kind of backwards to me |
| 15:22.57 | notjohn | davidw: i understand... just curious |
| 15:22.59 | davidw | Lede, replaced the application icon with zip |
| 15:23.08 | davidw | notjohn, you'd want to get linux running first |
| 15:23.17 | Lede | davidw: with zip? |
| 15:23.34 | davidw | yeah |
| 15:23.39 | davidw | but it's really weird how it works |
| 15:24.01 | Lede | i have no idea what you mean with "replaced with zip" |
| 15:24.14 | notjohn | i just like the form factor of the iphone |
| 15:25.53 | davidw | lede zip Foo.apk res/drawable/icon.png |
| 15:26.09 | davidw | easy ... right? apparently not. |
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| 15:40.11 | Lede | davidw: oh ok you mean that |
| 15:40.20 | Lede | davidw: sorry, was afk for a sec |
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| 16:40.16 | notjohn | are there any specs on android phones coming to market? |
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| 16:55.12 | zhobbs | notjohn: no |
| 17:08.36 | muthu | anyone tried adding Intents as a tab content? |
| 17:09.35 | muthu | tabhost tabspec works ok with views as contents, but not for intents |
| 17:09.43 | muthu | NPE is thrown |
| 17:11.17 | muthu | TabHost.TabSpec#public TabSpec setContent(Intent intent) |
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| 17:11.57 | JuliaJCastaway | ? |
| 17:12.05 | JuliaJCastaway | ?? |
| 17:12.07 | JuliaJCastaway | ??? |
| 17:12.11 | JuliaJCastaway | ???? |
| 17:12.51 | JuliaJCastaway | ????? |
| 17:12.51 | JuliaJCastaway | eih....? |
| 17:12.51 | JuliaJCastaway | di casa? |
| 17:13.08 | JuliaJCastaway | is there anyone? |
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| 17:14.24 | muthu | hi |
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| 17:22.23 | plusminus_ | Can the screen orientation be already toggled ? |
| 17:22.34 | romainguy__ | try ctrl-pagedown |
| 17:25.03 | plusminus_ | huh nice, I only remember that adb-command :) thx |
| 17:29.25 | plusminus_ | if there are several resources identifying LandScape or Protrait mode, which will be used after toggling? |
| 17:29.36 | plusminus_ | the same as before? |
| 17:29.40 | romainguy__ | ? |
| 17:29.59 | zhobbs | there's no to have a resource that switches is there? |
| 17:30.04 | zhobbs | no way to* |
| 17:30.13 | plusminus_ | argh... g2g |
| 17:30.16 | romainguy__ | when you toggle, your activity is restarted |
| 17:30.26 | romainguy__ | and it wil pick up the resources for the new orientation |
| 17:30.54 | zhobbs | I guess that's an easy way to test activity lifecycle |
| 17:31.57 | plusminus_ | ./afk |
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| 17:42.45 | jasta | oh shit |
| 17:42.52 | jasta | i went to bed at 2:30am last nighta nd forgot to set an alarm ;) |
| 17:43.03 | jasta | i am so lucky i woke up when i did :) |
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| 17:59.10 | nkbreau | Hi all, i installed the eclipse plugin, specified the SDK location in eclipse prefs but when i create a project i get an error "nature does not exist" ... any ideas ? I have no idea where to go from here.... |
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| 18:02.34 | nkbreau | the exact error i get is "Problems encountered while setting project description. |
| 18:02.34 | nkbreau | <PROTECTED> |
| 18:02.34 | nkbreau | " |
| 18:02.42 | nkbreau | anyone know what that means ? |
| 18:04.00 | zhobbs | do you have the latest version of plugin? |
| 18:04.11 | nkbreau | yes i just installed it |
| 18:04.20 | nkbreau | using he update wizard in eclipse |
| 18:04.24 | nkbreau | or the update installer i should say |
| 18:04.33 | zhobbs | hmm |
| 18:04.42 | zhobbs | you have to uninstall/reinstall for update |
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| 18:04.52 | zhobbs | don't think you can just use the normal update feature |
| 18:04.59 | nkbreau | ver 0.4.0.200802... |
| 18:05.24 | nkbreau | i used this link - https://dl-ssl.google.com/android/eclipse/ in the eclipse plugin manager |
| 18:05.41 | nkbreau | so your saying uninstall and reinstall manually ? |
| 18:05.51 | zhobbs | did you install both plugins? |
| 18:06.24 | nkbreau | both plugins ? i follwed this instruction set - http://code.google.com/android/intro/installing.html#installingplugin |
| 18:06.55 | nkbreau | it looks like it installed 3 things |
| 18:06.59 | zhobbs | hmm, not sure |
| 18:07.02 | nkbreau | ddms, common and adt |
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| 18:17.08 | jasta | ohhh, what is this new apps for android thing? |
| 18:18.15 | jasonchen | jasta: we wanted to publish some projects that were more complex than what's bundled in the SDK |
| 18:18.45 | nkbreau | does android have any charting packages for graphing sometime like a timeseries graph ? |
| 18:18.49 | jasta | that's great |
| 18:18.56 | jasonchen | jasta: so we decided to create a single project on google code project hosting |
| 18:19.37 | jasonchen | jasta: we'll be adding additional apps soon, hopefully |
| 18:20.27 | jasta | very nice. i've been eager to find out some of the "best practices" for Android, and this seems like a great way |
| 18:21.25 | jasonchen | cool; that's exactly the sort of thing we were hoping to convey |
| 18:22.28 | jasta | although sadly i feel like i've learned a lot of this the hard way already :) |
| 18:23.08 | jasonchen | well, i think we might be looking for contributors to the project as well :-) |
| 18:23.30 | jasta | jasonchen: One small comment, I think it would be good to distribute an Ant build environment with these apps. |
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| 18:25.28 | jasta | i don't have time to dig into the rest, but i like what i see anyway :) |
| 18:26.32 | jasonchen | jasta: the activityCreator utility can do that for you |
| 18:26.55 | jasonchen | but good to hear that you like it so far |
| 18:27.33 | muthu | does it install and run? |
| 18:27.50 | jasonchen | muthu: you mean the WikiNotes for Android app? |
| 18:27.56 | muthu | yes jason |
| 18:28.01 | jasonchen | yep |
| 18:28.19 | jasonchen | it's a fully functioning and somewhat useful app |
| 18:28.33 | muthu | hmm.. i'm not seeing it in the emulator |
| 18:28.41 | jasonchen | are you on m5? |
| 18:28.53 | muthu | yes r15 |
| 18:29.55 | nkbreau | what is the best way for a developer to get started with android developement (i have 5 years java and adobe flex dev experience) ? I'm looking for some kind of newbie doc itherwise I'll resort to reading the api... |
| 18:30.02 | muthu | adb install is fine |
| 18:30.07 | muthu | but not showing up in emulator |
| 18:30.32 | jasta | nkbreau: looking at the samples is a good way to quickly familiarize yourself. they are distributed with the SDK. |
| 18:30.44 | muthu | nkbreau: APIDemos samples will help |
| 18:30.50 | muthu | yup that's the best way |
| 18:31.02 | nkbreau | ok, I'll open that up, thanks. |
| 18:31.14 | muthu | Notepad is good for content providers |
| 18:31.45 | plusminus_ | my I suggest www.anddev.org ? oops ;) |
| 18:31.54 | muthu | oh yeah !! |
| 18:32.04 | muthu | anddev definitely :) |
| 18:32.24 | muthu | great job +- |
| 18:32.38 | plusminus_ | you're welcome :) |
| 18:33.42 | jasonchen | muthu: what happens if you restart the emulator? |
| 18:34.02 | muthu | let me try |
| 18:35.38 | muthu | now it shows up |
| 18:35.59 | muthu | restarting the emulator did it |
| 18:36.43 | jasonchen | muthu: cool; let me know if you continue to see a problem like that with apps not showing up in the emulator when they're first installed |
| 18:36.44 | zhobbs | jasonchen: is that WikiNotes application available? |
| 18:37.18 | jasonchen | zhobbs: it sure is; you can check it out from the svn repo for the apps-for-android project on Google Code |
| 18:38.00 | zhobbs | hmm, this page is empty for me so I thought there wasn't anything in svn: http://code.google.com/p/apps-for-android/source/browse |
| 18:38.47 | zhobbs | ohh...just doesn't work with opera |
| 18:38.47 | jasonchen | there's a directory in trunk called WikiNotes |
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| 18:39.32 | zhobbs | damn, where can I report the bug with that page and opera? |
| 18:39.32 | jasonchen | zhobbs: you don't want to do a full checkout? :-) |
| 18:39.45 | jasonchen | what version of opera are you running? |
| 18:39.54 | muthu | jasonchen: deletepage throws CursorIndexOutOfBounds |
| 18:40.04 | zhobbs | jasonchen: no, I will...just initially hit browse svn to see if anything was in there and it looked empty so I thought it wasn't up yet |
| 18:40.16 | zhobbs | jasonchen: 9.50 |
| 18:40.37 | jasonchen | muthu: feel free to file a bug in the Issue Tracker for the project |
| 18:40.58 | muthu | ok.. not functional |
| 18:42.01 | jasonchen | muthu: i'll let dickwall know; he wrote this initial version |
| 18:42.07 | muthu | sure, thx |
| 18:42.16 | jasonchen | but best thing is to file it as an issue so we capture and track it |
| 18:42.39 | muthu | ok |
| 18:44.19 | muthu | done |
| 18:46.46 | jasonchen | muthu: thanks |
| 18:47.53 | muthu | now that i'm in the mood, entered a couple of issues |
| 18:48.05 | muthu | good night folks |
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| 18:48.17 | chomchom | good evening! |
| 18:49.06 | nkbreau | anyone know where i can find an exmaple that uses android.util.xml ? i want to make a servlet request and parse some xml |
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| 18:56.43 | plusminus_ | "View.android.policiy.PhoneWindow$DecorView@40071b58 must be attached to a window." happens when runOnUIThread() is called and Activity is not yet/no more visible, right? |
| 18:58.03 | zhobbs | that's when I've gotten it |
| 18:58.18 | plusminus_ | k thx. |
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| 19:04.14 | nkbreau | should log.d be outputing to the console in eclipse if verbose is specified in the plugin settings ? |
| 19:04.40 | plusminus_ | verbose shows everything |
| 19:04.45 | zhobbs | nkbreau: should log to logcat |
| 19:05.01 | plusminus_ | to logcat ;) |
| 19:05.03 | nkbreau | logcat ? never heard of logcat before... |
| 19:05.15 | plusminus_ | Android-specific |
| 19:05.17 | zhobbs | yeah, it's a view built into the adt |
| 19:05.29 | nkbreau | ok, so how do i see the contents of it ? |
| 19:05.33 | plusminus_ | pretty useful but a bit buggy(crashes from time to time). |
| 19:05.41 | zhobbs | window -> add view -> other |
| 19:05.46 | zhobbs | android -> logcat |
| 19:05.48 | nkbreau | ah, duh |
| 19:06.00 | plusminus_ | http://anddev.org/images/help/open_ddms_view.png |
| 19:06.23 | plusminus_ | if A isnÄt visible, do it the B way |
| 19:06.26 | plusminus_ | http://anddev.org/images/help/open_ddms_view.png |
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| 19:06.42 | plusminus_ | here you see the LogCat in the very bottom. |
| 19:07.19 | nkbreau | very nice. |
| 19:07.51 | plusminus_ | and useful :) |
| 19:11.21 | nkbreau | fun stuff :) |
| 19:13.56 | nkbreau | sorry for the newb questoins... but can an imageView be directed to a url image or would you have to write the code to download the image then point it to the image locally ? |
| 19:14.21 | zhobbs | gotta save it I think |
| 19:14.46 | nkbreau | so if you were writting a twitter client you would have to download and save the images for each profile locally ? |
| 19:14.49 | zhobbs | or use BitmapFactory |
| 19:15.22 | zhobbs | you can pass an input stream into BitmapFactory to get the bitmap in memory and then set the image for the ImageView using that bitmap |
| 19:16.00 | nkbreau | ok I"ll see if i can figure that out :P I'm use to adobe flex/flash which i guess is more web oriented |
| 19:16.46 | jasta | yawn |
| 19:17.14 | jasta | nkbreau: keep in mind that phone's have very slow internet connections |
| 19:17.27 | jasta | so you would want to save persistent data instead of download it on demand every time |
| 19:17.50 | zhobbs | so use a separate thread and keep the user in the loop on the progress |
| 19:17.54 | jasta | that's the main advantage of native applications versus mobile-friendly web sites. |
| 19:18.47 | nkbreau | right. |
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| 19:25.43 | plusminus_ | nkbreau: Gallery with remote images: http://www.anddev.org/gallery_with_remote_images-t769.html |
| 19:25.51 | plusminus_ | and http://www.anddev.org/loading_images_from_remote_server-web-t673.html |
| 19:25.55 | plusminus_ | might help you |
| 19:26.17 | nkbreau | awesome, thanks. |
| 19:39.48 | nkbreau | sorry, another newb Q but do you have to stop and restart the emulator after every code change, or is there a quick way to refresh the emulator with the latest sourecode in eclipse ? |
| 19:41.41 | zhobbs | don't close the emulator |
| 19:41.50 | zhobbs | eclipse will reuse it |
| 19:42.05 | nkbreau | ok, how do i tell the emul;ator to reload my application ? |
| 19:42.29 | plusminus_ | just run your app it will get overridden |
| 19:43.29 | nkbreau | hmmm not sure i follow... when i launch the emulator the app is loaded, if i click on a button like the phone or home button my app goes away and I cant seem to get it back without closing the emulator and starting it again |
| 19:43.46 | zhobbs | just hit run in eclipse |
| 19:44.04 | plusminus_ | it is also listed on the home screen |
| 19:44.26 | plusminus_ | clicking the arrow-icon in the lower right corner should show all installed apps |
| 19:44.41 | nkbreau | ah there we go |
| 19:44.44 | nkbreau | had to click all first |
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| 19:59.14 | nkbreau | will all android phones have gps positioning enabled so that you always know what the coordinates of the phone are ? |
| 19:59.37 | nkbreau | afaik current cell phones all have the ability but it's usually locked by the provider, correct ? |
| 20:10.39 | zhobbs | all phones should have some way to get the position, there will be different accuracies (gps, triangulation) |
| 20:18.38 | _avatar | i'm looking to decode some base64 data in my application. http://code.google.com/android/reference/android/util/package-summary.html mentions base64 encoders and decoders, but I can't find them to save my life. maybe I'm just blind... can anyone point me in the right direction? :) |
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| 20:33.44 | jasta | Of all the XML files to break my parser, it's gtalkservice's xmpp_settings_screen.xml? |
| 20:33.55 | jasta | huh. |
| 20:36.10 | davidw | of all the xml files in all the programs in the world, she walks into my parser |
| 20:37.31 | jasta | hehe |
| 20:37.33 | jasta | nice ;) |
| 20:39.28 | zhobbs | _avatar: http://www.source-code.biz/snippets/java/2.htm |
| 20:40.39 | _avatar | zhobbs: thanks, looks like its LGPL though. i can't use it :/ |
| 20:40.57 | zhobbs | _avatar: why? LGPL means you can use it and not open your stuff |
| 20:42.28 | _avatar | yeah, I know. last time I tried to use LGPL the legal department threw a fit, though. i was hoping to use part of the android platform or the JDK. |
| 20:42.56 | _avatar | maybe its time to try my luck again. thanks:) |
| 20:42.56 | zhobbs | oh ok...legal departments suck the life out of everything |
| 20:43.06 | _avatar | yeah, really |
| 20:43.16 | _avatar | I guess I could just reimplement the RFC, blah |
| 21:00.21 | jasta | hmm. |
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| 21:22.45 | kurzum | not really android related but does anyone know a method to remove characters from the beginning/end of a string... like trim() but for arbitary characters? |
| 21:27.06 | f00f- | kurzum: look at String.java in JDK source |
| 21:29.15 | kurzum | i can reimplement it myself, just wanted to make sure i really have to :) |
| 21:29.32 | kurzum | charAt kinda makes me feel like in the old C days :P |
| 21:29.33 | plusminus_ | substring ? |
| 21:29.50 | plusminus_ | indexOf, lastIndexOf |
| 21:30.00 | plusminus_ | cya all |
| 21:30.25 | kurzum | *indexOf is not really gonna work |
| 21:36.11 | romainguy_ | replace? |
| 21:36.34 | kurzum | replace would replace all characters in the string i guess |
| 21:37.10 | romainguy_ | not if you use the String version |
| 21:37.22 | romainguy_ | which takes a regular expression |
| 21:37.45 | romainguy_ | so you can do something like replaceFirst("^lalalal", "") |
| 21:39.50 | kurzum | ah thats a good idea |
| 21:39.51 | kurzum | thx |
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| 22:15.43 | jasta | romainguy_: when will we get to see the soft keyboard? :) |
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| 23:00.25 | jasta | romainguy_: found your xmlns:home reference :) |
| 23:00.36 | jasta | com.google.android.home.ApplicationsStackLayout? :) |
| 23:25.58 | romainguy_ | jasta: yes |
| 23:26.07 | romainguy_ | jasta: romainguy_: when will we get to see the soft keyboard? << what soft keyboard? |
| 23:28.32 | jasta | the first device to market is expected to be a touch screen phone with no physical keyboard, right? |
| 23:28.52 | jasta | as the hvga skin suggests. |
| 23:33.45 | romainguy_ | it's just a skin for the emulator |
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| 23:34.45 | jasta | so the Dream isn't a rumor? :) |
| 23:34.57 | romainguy_ | uh ? |
| 23:35.34 | jasta | the rumored HTC Dream was said to have a large touch screen like the iPhone but also a full qwerty keyboard that flips out |
| 23:36.07 | jasta | if there are no plans to make a soft keyboard, we could reasonably assume that the device is not a rumor, but will exist ;) |
| 23:36.23 | romainguy_ | I didn't say there are no plans :) |
| 23:36.33 | jasta | then when do we get to see it!? :) |
| 23:36.45 | romainguy_ | I didn't say there are plans either |
| 23:36.52 | romainguy_ | I don't know anything about such a thing |
| 23:36.53 | jasta | ahhh ;) |
| 23:36.55 | romainguy_ | hence my question |
| 23:37.09 | jasta | well in other news... |
| 23:37.31 | jasta | http://android-random.googlecode.com/files/axml2xml.pl |
| 23:37.34 | jasta | it works |
| 23:37.38 | romainguy_ | cool |
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| 23:38.01 | jasta | i'm drafting up a blog entry as we speak :) |
| 23:38.31 | romainguy_ | nice |
| 23:38.34 | romainguy_ | gotos \o/ |
| 23:46.24 | jasta | there's *ONE*, and i just added that :) |
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| 23:46.49 | jasta | and it only exists because you guys have a very bizarre handling of xmlns that i didn't feel like supporting correctly |
| 23:47.21 | Raven_coda | anyone using android.graphics.PointF.length() ? |
| 23:49.20 | jasta | romainguy_: did you see my notes scattered around? :) |
| 23:50.43 | jasta | i'm certain i didn't handle xmlns correctly, but it seems to work still |
| 23:51.07 | jasta | in all the files in /system/*.apk, i found only 5 that failed to parse. |
| 23:51.12 | jasta | and i ignored them for now :) |
| 23:52.28 | romainguy_ | jasta: there's *ONE*, and i just added that << I do like goto |
| 23:52.45 | romainguy_ | after all break and continue are just disguised gotos :) |
| 23:52.52 | romainguy_ | (not so disguised when you do a break label though) |
| 23:55.46 | Raven_coda | nevermind, known issue http://code.google.com/p/android/issues/detail?id=230 |
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| 23:59.50 | eighty | errr... ApiDemo for GTalk is kind of buggy. f00t, have you been experimenting? |
