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| 08:23.45 | cutmasta | morning |
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| 11:43.04 | davidw | is it just me or does setEnabled false not really work for buttons? |
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| 12:12.09 | skicson | davidw:yeah it doesn't seem to work - i think i've seen it written up as a bug somewheres |
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| 14:18.14 | davidw | skicson, well bug romainguy when he comes on line |
| 14:18.17 | davidw | we'll |
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| 15:49.31 | jasonlee | t |
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| 16:22.37 | davidw | even if you kill it, it comes back |
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| 16:47.32 | davidw | damn |
| 16:49.39 | zhobbs | How can I "delete" parts of the canvas in a view's onDraw() function? |
| 16:49.55 | zhobbs | I'm trying to do something like "canvas.drawColor(0, PorterDuff.Mode.CLEAR)", but that makes that part black |
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| 16:50.08 | zhobbs | I want to make it transparent |
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| 17:03.52 | zelip | i feel there should be 2 versions of android, touch screen and non-touch. Is this like that? |
| 17:04.36 | zelip | i have a non-touch screen phone, since i HATE how wm6 works.. |
| 17:05.17 | zelip | but with a nice interface it would be a my passion. and with a not as ugly looking phone as the iphone. |
| 17:05.43 | zhobbs | it's up to the developers to support both |
| 17:06.24 | zelip | but there's a world of difference between the two. One same OS idea will not work with both.. |
| 17:06.48 | zelip | at least not in a good way.. (wm6 is the live example) |
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| 17:37.47 | morrildl | home again, home again |
| 17:37.50 | morrildl | jiggety jig |
| 17:37.52 | mike1o | what is the screen size of the phone in pixels? |
| 17:38.38 | morrildl | mike1o: it can vary |
| 17:38.52 | mike1o | oh ok |
| 17:39.03 | morrildl | The most common resolutions will be HVGA (480x320) and QVGA (320x240) |
| 17:39.12 | morrildl | some will be landscape, some will portrait |
| 17:40.35 | zhobbs | morrildl, you just get back from all those days of code? |
| 17:40.55 | morrildl | zhobbs: yup |
| 17:41.04 | morrildl | well, technically I was back Saturday |
| 17:41.10 | morrildl | but I caught the flu in Tel Aviv :P |
| 17:41.51 | mike1o | is there any practical advantage in submitting the project earlier than the expiration date? |
| 17:42.02 | morrildl | mike1o: not really |
| 17:42.22 | morrildl | judging won't begin until the deadline |
| 17:42.33 | morrildl | ...and you can resubmit if you want or need to |
| 17:42.36 | zhobbs | morrildl, you going to barcelona? |
| 17:42.39 | mike1o | ok :) |
| 17:44.02 | mike1o | I assume functionality is going to be considered more in important than looks right? |
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| 17:44.26 | morrildl | mike1o: yup |
| 17:44.31 | morrildl | for the most part, at least |
| 17:44.36 | mike1o | though so :) |
| 17:44.49 | morrildl | obviously if it comes down to the judges deciding between two apps, the prettier one will probably win |
| 17:45.11 | morrildl | but in general we will be favoring neat ideas over flashy UIs and so on |
| 17:45.26 | mike1o | it's really an interesting project to be part of even if I don't actually win anything |
| 17:47.04 | mike1o | the judges will be testing apps for harsh situations too? |
| 17:48.22 | mike1o | I mean like traffic intensive cases... |
| 17:52.11 | mike1o | morrildl, what about documentation and code readability? will you be considering this also? |
| 17:52.51 | zhobbs | mike1o, you don't send the code |
| 17:52.52 | morrildl | mike1o: you aren't required to submit source code, so readibility there doesn't matter :) |
| 17:53.02 | mike1o | oh yeah... oops |
| 17:53.04 | morrildl | well, unless you care about it yourself anyway :) |
| 17:53.19 | morrildl | for documentation, your "README" file just needs to be "Adequate" |
| 17:53.27 | zhobbs | morrildl, I see on the form the only upload is the package and documentation...what if I want to provide mock location providers, etc? |
| 17:53.29 | mike1o | sorry Ill stop bugging you guys with all these questions :) |
| 17:53.56 | morrildl | mike1o: no problem, that's what we're here for! |
| 17:54.06 | morrildl | zhobbs: hmm |
| 17:54.09 | mike1o | so it's not really opensource is it? |
| 17:54.58 | morrildl | zhobbs: you can't include it in a single large .apk? |
| 17:55.06 | morrildl | mike1o: what are you referring to? |
| 17:55.35 | zhobbs | yeah, but then the judges would have to extract the apk and then move the kml/properties files to /data/misc/location |
| 17:55.38 | mike1o | morrildl, I mean if we don't submit the source code... thus the source is not open |
| 17:55.51 | zhobbs | hmm...unless /data/misc/location is writable by the apps...I'd have to check on that |
| 17:56.01 | morrildl | mike1o: correct, your apps don't have to be open source |
| 17:56.05 | zhobbs | mike1o, submissions don't have to be open source |
| 17:56.42 | zhobbs | I have a feeling apps can't write to /data/misc/location |
| 17:56.46 | morrildl | zhobbs: how big are these files? |
| 17:56.56 | zhobbs | not very large at all |
| 17:57.08 | davidw | morrildl, welcome back |
| 17:57.12 | morrildl | davidw: thanks :) |
| 17:57.25 | zhobbs | one I'm looking at is 100k |
| 17:58.14 | morrildl | zhobbs: okay, I will bring this up and find out how we want to handle it. It may be that you just create a .zip file with whatever files you want, including your .apk |
| 17:58.22 | morrildl | and attach that instead of a single .apk |
| 17:58.43 | zhobbs | morrildl, thanks |
| 17:59.38 | zhobbs | morrildl, I want to make it as easy as possible for the judges...and for location based services you might need to provide specific paths to follow for the app to do anything |
| 18:00.07 | morrildl | zhobbs: yeah, gotcha |
| 18:00.31 | morrildl | I definitely hear what you're saying, and I bet you're not the only one in that situation |
| 18:00.39 | morrildl | We'll figure out what we want folks to do |
| 18:00.49 | morrildl | "easy for the judges" is indeed quite important :) |
| 18:02.03 | zhobbs | yeah, wonder if judges can "adb push ..." |
| 18:04.58 | mike1o | are the judges google only people? or are there gonna be delegates from the openhandsetalliance? when are the results coming out for the contest? who holds the legal ownership of the apps? |
| 18:05.23 | mike1o | I know that's way too many questions... :) |
| 18:05.48 | davidw | mike1o, IIRC, people from Italy can't participate:-/ |
| 18:05.59 | mike1o | no :( |
| 18:06.12 | davidw | mike1o, they said there would be judges from the other companies |
| 18:08.17 | mike1o | davidw, hey it's gonna be like italian soccer league :-) |
| 18:09.22 | mike1o | or even worse... like italian politics :-( |
| 18:11.18 | davidw | I don't think it'll be quite that bad;-) |
| 18:11.38 | mike1o | eheh |
| 18:11.56 | davidw | Berlusconi would have already declared himself the winner |
| 18:12.29 | mike1o | can't get worse than that... |
| 18:15.17 | mike1o | he would have made an app to watch TV eheh |
| 18:16.19 | zhobbs | that would save me so much time |
| 18:16.24 | zhobbs | j/k :) |
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| 19:59.01 | davidw | damn, I can't make it give me the caller's number |
| 19:59.19 | zhobbs | yeah, I've heard that you can get it after the call is over :) |
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| 20:01.46 | davidw | I've been digging and digging to see if I can find another way |
| 20:02.50 | davidw | it's been fun, but as far as I can tell, PhoneUtils is the only thing that is able to give you that information |
| 20:02.57 | davidw | give you/access |
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| 22:27.32 | chomchom | If anyone from Google is reading |
| 22:28.21 | chomchom | Coming from a web design background I've experienced a lot of old problems that I've experienced making web pages |
| 22:29.48 | chomchom | CSS and HTML tables are a nightmare to debug without the webdesign tool bar or firebug plugin for firefox. Or alternatively applying borders to all your page elements (DIVS & Table Cells /rows ) |
| 22:29.56 | chomchom | A really |
| 22:30.03 | chomchom | really helpful option |
| 22:30.43 | chomchom | would be to include a debug option in the emulator that would outline all the page elements with a coloured border to quickly get an idea of the DOM |
| 22:31.03 | chomchom | like -layout-borders |
| 22:35.50 | chomchom | is there any official place to post suggestions for future emulator enhancements? |
| 22:37.00 | davidw | chomchom, maybe there's something for webkit out there already? |
| 22:37.06 | davidw | there's an issue tracker |
| 22:37.35 | zhobbs | chomchom, you're not talking about web development right, just xml layout development? |
| 22:39.14 | chomchom | yeah I'm talking about laying out the UI elements for androids LinearLayout/TableLayout, etc. Using the res/ etc. |
| 22:39.22 | davidw | ah |
| 22:39.49 | chomchom | Do you know what I mean though? |
| 22:40.21 | chomchom | remember how much more efficient web designers became all of a sudden the minute we could see the bounds of our DIVs in the DOM? |
| 22:41.28 | chomchom | even like an emulator feature that would place an overlay over the screen that you could hover over the individually drawn objects on the screen. |
| 22:41.37 | chomchom | like the accessability toolbar for ie |
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| 23:10.08 | HalfShell | Is there a way to access a USB port on a phone (the one many use for charging) through the Android SDK? |
| 23:13.13 | zhobbs | HalfShell, yeah, but I don't think it's implemented |
| 23:13.46 | HalfShell | Im intereted in having Android interact with other electronics and use the cell phone as a base. So you're saying that its a possible feature or a known feature for a future release? |
| 23:13.58 | HalfShell | And I guess the next question is whether bluetooth would be a viable option. |
| 23:14.36 | zhobbs | Looks like you can have the phone be a mass storage device: http://code.google.com/android/reference/android/os/IUsb.html |
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| 23:15.31 | HalfShell | mmmm i Found that before zhobbs. My ultimae hope is they institute some kind of Serial class that uses the USB like a COM port. |
| 23:16.41 | zhobbs | Hmm, I would think bluetooth would be better for something like that |
| 23:18.08 | HalfShell | :-D well, not for my purposes. Long story short I'm thinking of using Android as a platform to turn cell phones into extremely capable robot controllers. I need to get the Android SDK to talk to a miro controller... I'll have to look into bluetooth if USB is not an option though |
| 23:20.19 | HalfShell | It also raises a good question - does the Eclipse plugin and virtual phone emulator allow me to access USB ports and bluetooth on my computer as the phone's? |
| 23:22.09 | chomchom | HalfShell: thats a sweet idea |
| 23:22.35 | chomchom | You know that that lego that you build robots out of? |
| 23:22.47 | chomchom | they have rather complicated controllers |
| 23:23.01 | chomchom | And already have a huge fanbase; |
| 23:23.07 | chomchom | all of them geeks |
| 23:23.44 | chomchom | I bet they'd be really greatful if you made a project that could control their robots |
| 23:24.07 | chomchom | their the ones most likely to have an alpha geek phone like the gphone when it first comes out |
| 23:24.16 | HalfShell | Well im planning a general use one |
| 23:24.17 | HalfShell | but in theory |
| 23:24.20 | HalfShell | yeah you could use it with that |
| 23:25.09 | HalfShell | but the challenge is getting android to talk to a micro controller |
| 23:25.09 | chomchom | How would you implement a general interface to robots? |
| 23:25.13 | HalfShell | so i can control motors |
| 23:25.36 | HalfShell | Most micro controllers can listen and talk via a serial port, be it an actual serial port or a USB to serial port interface |
| 23:26.02 | HalfShell | if the micro controller and a general Android application for robotics talks to eachother changing messages that convey information back and forth |
| 23:26.12 | HalfShell | Android could in theory take sensor input and then command the motors. |
| 23:26.31 | chomchom | what I'm thinking of is the API implementation and interface must already be there and fleshed out for the lego robots. |
| 23:26.35 | HalfShell | Which is good cause cell phones have bluetooth, wifi, GPS, and cellular conncetions and webcams in a cheap package |
| 23:26.48 | HalfShell | hmmm |
| 23:27.44 | HalfShell | really as soon as I can figure out how to create some kind of serial interface between the phone and a micro controller 90% of the work is done - ive done similar programs on laptops and PCs before :-p |
| 23:28.04 | HalfShell | so hence the tackling of the USB/bluetooth questions now |
| 23:28.20 | chomchom | thats really good, look forward to seeing something ilke that. |
| 23:28.35 | morrildl | The main question is whether actual devices will have USB host controllers |
| 23:28.41 | morrildl | that's still pretty uncommon |
| 23:28.57 | HalfShell | mmmm |
| 23:28.58 | morrildl | Bluetooth is probably more likely to be enabled on a handset |
| 23:29.02 | HalfShell | or if i Could pull it off through blue tooth |
| 23:29.12 | HalfShell | I was under the impression that USB was becoming common place on cell phones |
| 23:29.20 | HalfShell | motorolas are coming out with them more and mroe |
| 23:29.24 | morrildl | maybe, I don't follow cell phones quite that closely :) |
| 23:29.24 | chomchom | one really far out option is... |
| 23:29.42 | morrildl | not ALL devices will have them, certainly |
| 23:29.49 | HalfShell | this is true |
| 23:30.24 | HalfShell | Ive never written a program that uses bluetooth before... this should be... interesting. |
| 23:30.43 | chomchom | that if you implemented both an interface and a controller on the Android platform then you could have one phone talk to another. The result being that you would have one android phone as a host. That phone would sit in the belly of the robot (since its running linux anyway). |
| 23:30.46 | morrildl | assuming you're willing to make that compromise (your app will only work on devices that have a host controller) then it comes down to the APIs for it |
| 23:30.59 | morrildl | I doubt we'll bother to expose an API for USB-serial |
| 23:31.06 | chomchom | this way you could test it without an actual physical implementation |
| 23:31.25 | HalfShell | so morrildl youre suggesting find a way to go through bluetooth |
| 23:31.32 | HalfShell | since nearly all phones will have it |
| 23:31.44 | morrildl | well, certainly far more than will have a USB host controller |
| 23:32.01 | morrildl | I'm saying that would be the route for maximum compatibility :) |
| 23:32.02 | chomchom | that way you could even phone your robot or communicate with it via xmpp |
| 23:32.30 | morrildl | someone hacking on robots is likely to be something of an enthusiast anyway, so it may be just fine for you to limit yourself to USB-only |
| 23:32.46 | HalfShell | well for the USB problem |
| 23:32.56 | HalfShell | my original idea was to fine one android compatible cheap phone with the USB and use that as a base |
| 23:33.01 | HalfShell | but bluetooth could also be a good option. |
| 23:33.09 | morrildl | I'd say go with BT |
| 23:33.14 | morrildl | if nothing else, then no wires :) |
| 23:33.46 | HalfShell | is there a way to treat a bluetooth connection like a serial connection? the easiest way to do this is to just have hte micro controller and the phone send strings back and forth |
| 23:37.55 | HalfShell | bbl, thank you for the help |
| 23:43.23 | chomchom | Just found a work around for that render bug with the referenced style values on strings being copied to their neighbours |
| 23:44.06 | chomchom | See if for instance you have a string <string name="me">text</string |
| 23:44.55 | chomchom | in order to properly apply bold to it just wrap it in the bold tag twice like <string name="me"><b><b>text</b></b></string> |
| 23:48.33 | *** join/#android zelipe (n=zelip@nat/hp/x-0a77f7c923bd5b3e) |