irclog2html for # on 20050208

00:09.43*** join/# jhoward (~jhoward@adsl-69-225-89-33.dsl.skt2ca.pacbell.net)
00:10.13jhowardwow.  that worked :)
00:15.11knebelhi
00:15.35knebelThink it's safe to compile three things simultaniously?
00:17.59jhowardknebel: what three things?
00:18.22knebelgimp, zinf and sys-tools/eject
00:18.26knebelheh.
00:18.27jhowardThe only problem I have ever seen when doing something like that is when I run out of memory (and have no swap)
00:18.32knebelI'm sure it's fine.
00:18.38jhowardIt should be
00:57.20knebel~time est
00:57.25knebel~Date
00:57.26purlTue Feb  8 00:57:26 2005
00:57.32knebel~Date est
00:59.27Laidknebel: As long as you're not using package management and/or they don't have overlaping dependancies
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01:05.03knebelheh
01:05.09knebelhuh
01:05.11knebeluhuh
01:05.15knebelduh
01:05.26Laid<PROTECTED>
01:05.39knebelnice uptime.
01:05.50knebelI shutdown each night.
01:05.58LaidI need to upgrade soon though
01:06.07knebel03:05:10 up 21:31,  4 users,  load average: 2.00, 1.67, 1.00
01:06.18knebeloOh that time is way wrong.
01:06.36Laidwhat OS are you running?
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01:22.18knebelGentoo, Linux
01:22.37Laidnetbsd i386 1.5.2
01:25.54knebelIs there much of a difference?
01:26.57Laidfrom which to where?
01:27.10knebelLin to BSD
01:29.03LaidWell, BSD has updated manpages and follows more of the POSIX standards.  The generic kernel usually supports everything and it doesn't really use loadable kernel modules, rather you uncomment lines in the config file for obscure things.  
01:29.57knebelI prefer POSIX but the modules I use alot.
01:29.58LaidMost of the tools are BSD, not gnu.  BSD doesn't come with software installed; you use package management for that(X may or may not be intalled as part of the installation)
01:30.27knebelYah, I won't use a distro that does that.
01:31.07Laidie, you install BSD, you don't boot the computer the next time and come to a crapped up gnome desktop asking for your login.  You come to a text login prompt that loads csh.  If you want to open X, you run startx
01:31.33knebelI like gentoo for that reason.
01:31.44knebelI used to use Slackware for that reason.
01:31.46Laidthe package management is pretty painless.  cd /usr/ports/chat/xchat ; make install  will install xchat
01:32.06knebelThe most minimalistic I've seen was Slackware.
01:33.27LaidBSD is nice and lean, and if you're not afraid of man and vi, then you'll get along fine with it
01:34.02knebelI'm afraid of info.
01:34.10knebelI use joe...
01:34.12LaidI've never used info
01:34.39knebelBare in mind that you need to put the full path to the file.
01:34.46LaidWHAT?
01:34.48knebelor you get info's info
01:35.03Laidhey, do you need any slashdot karma?
01:35.14knebelI dun know what that is.
01:35.25Laidhttp://slashdot.org
01:35.51knebelI read the articles all the time, but I'm unaware of karma.
01:36.17Laidif you have an account and you post  . . . if you get modded you gain/lose karma
01:36.18knebelI got lost along the way.
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01:39.50njanLaid, all of the points you make are distinctions between freebsd and specific linux distributions, not differences between linux and bsd as a whole.
01:40.13njanLaid, if you want to distinguish between BSD and Linux, you need to look at the limits of what both operating system kernels (because that's all they are really, kernels; they share most of the same userspace tools) accomplish.
01:40.25Laidnjan: no, not all of them
01:40.26njanOtherwise you're comparing distributions or releases, not the base products.
01:40.35LaidI did talk about kernels
01:40.45LaidI realize that all distros of linux are different
01:40.49njanLaid, exactly, not all of them. So you can't pick features which are only the case in a subset of linux distributions (eg. old manpages) and imply that they're common to *all* linux, which you did :)
01:41.15LaidYou cannot change the fact that the GNU project does not believe in manpages, no matter how much you try
01:41.24njanGNU != linux
01:41.30njanGNU == GNU
01:41.33njanLinux == Linux
01:41.41LaidGnu/Linux
01:42.05njanbullshit. GNU/Linux == violation of the GPL
01:42.25njan<PROTECTED>
01:42.26njan<PROTECTED>
01:42.26njan<PROTECTED>
01:42.26njan<PROTECTED>
01:42.26njan<PROTECTED>
01:42.28njan<PROTECTED>
01:42.30njan<PROTECTED>
01:42.48njaninsisting on calling someone else's software GNU/Linux - as RMS does - specifically breaches that clause of the GPL
01:42.55LaidWhy does RMS insist on that designation then?
01:42.59njanbecause he's an idiot.
01:43.05LaidYes, I know this
01:43.13Laidbut what distro of linux doesn't come with gnu tools?
01:43.17njanHe's well intentioned, he's intelligent, and he's significant, but that doesn't negate the fact that he's a pompous ass.
01:43.35njanLaid, none that I know of. But that doesn't mean that the OS is GNU/Linux
01:43.42njanthere are virtually no linux distros which come without X
01:43.45njanthat doesn't mean it's X/Linux
01:43.55LaidI realize this too
01:44.03njantools are *userspace*, they're part of the distribution, not the operating system.
01:44.21njanif a distribution therefore wants to adopt the GNU/Linux nomenclature (as debian sort of does), they're welcome to
01:44.34njanbut RMS can't universalise the GNU/Linux definition
01:44.41LaidFine.  But what you're saying is that you cannot compare linux and bsd
01:44.46njanNope
01:44.48LaidOk
01:44.59njanI said that the way you compared it wasn't comparing Linux and BSD, it was comparing (most linux distros) and freebsd
01:45.07njanwhich isn't the same thing.
01:45.58Laidso I guess the answer would be, knebel, is there is no comparison, because linux is just a free kernel which people have built an environment around, whereas BSD is a whole operating system
01:46.18njanwell, technically you're wrong there too.
01:46.24njanBSD = Berkeley Systems Distribution
01:46.29njanBSD is a distribution..
01:46.35njanso FreeBSD is a distribution of a distribution.
01:46.41knebelhey I forget, a standard Music cd, what do I use as it's type when mounting.
01:46.49njancomparing linux and bsd is like comparing mach and windows.
01:46.54knebelHey by the way, You were informative..
01:46.59njanThat is, if you want to be really snarky :)
01:47.12Laidheh
01:47.16knebelThe posix argument and the native tools was strong enough.
01:47.30njanknebel, in my opinion, linux has better hardware support, bsd has more posix support, linux can be securer, bsd is usually securer out of the box
01:47.48njanknebel, linux has better scheduling (in 2.6, not in 2.4) and multiprocessor support, and is therefore a better choice in an enterprise environment
01:47.56njanknebel, linux also has a far wider range of available software.
01:47.57Laidsecurity is relative
01:48.02njanLaid, correct.
01:48.15njanLaid, freebsd, relatively, is securer than a default install of debian; marginally.
01:48.23njanLaid, but linux can be setup far far far more securely than freebsd can.
01:49.05LaidWhat can't be secured on fbsd that can on linux?
01:52.45njanAll kinds of things, actually.
01:52.58njanPropolice, pax, pie, grsecurity, and selinux all go above and beyond what freebsd is capable of.
01:53.20njanAnd that's before you even start to play around with UML
01:53.47knebelSo it's about the core of the system, not the applications.
01:54.10njanknebel, most applications people use a lot run on bsd and linux.
01:54.22knebelThe kernels are designed speciflcally for different things, then?
01:54.29njanknebel, the kernels are totally different :)
01:54.36njanbsd is very old and based on a lot of code written by a lot of different people
01:54.39knebelWho maintains the BSD kernel?
01:54.42njanlinux was totally written from scratch circa 1991
01:54.57njanknebel, http://www.levenez.com/unix/
01:55.01njantake a look at that :p
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02:00.59ahernanMexico
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02:09.05njanthat was random.
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02:11.27knebellol
02:11.30knebel~mexico
02:11.31purlmexico is probably a dirty dirty place, or where the gnomes come from
02:11.44knebeloOH... That's wrong.
02:11.51knebel~bad purl
02:11.53purlBad purl, bad! No cookie for you!
02:11.53Leonardo_Lopespurl, where you from?
02:12.05knebel~0wn
02:12.06purlOWN OWN GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR!
02:12.17Leonardo_Lopes~USA?
02:12.18purli guess usa is a degraded toilet roll that has been laying on the piss soking toilet matt for 10years, or a continent with a large amount of crack addicts
02:12.19Leonardo_Lopes~USA
02:12.20purli guess usa is a degraded toilet roll that has been laying on the piss soking toilet matt for 10years, or a continent with a large amount of crack addicts
02:12.36knebel~creator
02:12.36purlwell, creator is the guy who made it
02:12.42knebel~creator purl
02:13.18Leonardo_Lopes~brazil
02:13.19purl[brazil] a very beautiful country! He has a project called debian-br, with open discusions at #debian-br, or at debian-br.sourceforge.net, or the name of an extremely cool and surreal movie that is worth watching.
02:14.02knebel~norway
02:14.03purlmethinks norway is a country in Scandinavia. A beer costs EUR 1,80 there. The capital of Norway is Oslo. And yes norway isn't a member of the EU, or a great skiing nation, or actually it is a great skiing nation, or make sure you know where your towel is before you go
02:14.22Leonardo_Lopes~cristiania
02:14.29Leonardo_Lopes~russia
02:14.29purlsomebody said russia was red, or cold
02:14.31knebel~afgan
02:14.34knebel~afganastan
02:14.40Leonardo_Lopes~china
02:14.41purlchina is probably a country, or what you eat from on holidays
02:14.45knebel~spell afganastan
02:14.46purlpossible spellings for afganastan: Afghanistan Afghanistan's Arkansan Augustan Evanston Afghans afghans against Afghan's Afghanis Ugandan afghan's Agustin organists
02:14.53Leonardo_Lopes~cuba
02:14.56knebel~afganistan
02:15.05knebel~afghanistan
02:15.15Leonardo_Lopes~spell cristiania
02:15.16purlpossible spellings for cristiania: Cristiano Cristian Cristionna Christiana Cristina Cristian's Kristian Cristiano's
02:15.40knebel~x en br Cristiania is where Leonardo wants to be.
02:15.41Leonardo_Lopes~LEonardo
02:15.55knebel~x en sp Cristiania is where Leonardo wants to be.
02:16.05knebel~knebel
02:16.06purlyou are probably sucking wind in the evolutionary race.
02:16.12knebelhah
02:16.39knebelTimRicker, created purl. He's usually around.
02:16.53knebelI like my entry.
02:16.56knebelI added it.
02:17.20knebel~no knebel is dragging one end of the bell curve way down..
02:17.21purlokay, knebel
02:17.25knebel~knebel
02:17.26purlyou are probably dragging one end of the bell curve way down..
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02:19.50knebel~random
02:20.15knebel~quote
02:20.40knebel~quote IBM
02:20.57knebel~quote Microsoft
02:21.04knebel~quote Sun
02:21.20knebel~quote Linux
02:21.25knebelheh
02:21.34knebel~quote Google
02:24.31knebel~quote ati
02:24.55knebel~quote Acer
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18:15.29Karma0187hey whats up
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18:16.38Karma0187does ne one got an old dos game called solar wind
18:16.42Karma0187the 2nd one?
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18:35.18coralsorry, wrong network
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18:35.47wrongun:-)
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